Upstream

If you look around at the state of the world—and the despair that comes with the reality of climate change, fascism spreading its tentacles around the world, the ethnic cleansing of Gaza—it's very difficult to feel hope. It begins to feel like the forces of destruction and death have colonized our futures, limiting our dreams and stifling our imaginations.

It's in these times specifically that it's essential we remember that the future, our dreams, our imagination—that these things are political. And that exercising our hope for a just and beautiful future is an important, in fact, crucial political act. Not on its own, of course, but imagining and dreaming fuels our actions and gives soul and spirit to our revolutionary movements. And as the poet Rainer Maria Rilke once wrote, "The future must enter into you long before it happens."

Rob Hopkins is the co-founder of Transition Network and of Transition Town Totnes, and the author of several books including The Transition Handbook, From What is to What if, and most recently, How to Fall in Love with the Future: A Time Traveller's Guide to Changing the World.

In this episode, we explore what it's like to be a time traveler from Rob's perspective, how dreams and imagination are powerful tools for driving change, and the role that art and music play in the fight for a better future. We explore examples of communities that have made a claim on the future, from the Afro-futurism and Black Utopianism of jazz musician Sun Ra to the occupation of Waterloo Bridge in London and the pop-up community that arose as a result. And finally, we look at how the future is not just an abstract concept, but something that can be felt, touched, heard, seen, and smelled.

Further resources:

• How to Fall in Love with the Future: A Time Traveller's Guide to Changing the World, by Rob Hopkins
• Field Recordings from the Future
• Crowdfunder: Field Recordings From The Future Immersive Show
• Sun Ra's Chicago: Afrofuturism and the City, by William Sites
• From What If to What Next: 72 - What if we shifted to a not-for-profit economy?

Related episodes:

• Transition Towns with Rob Hopkins
• Beer: Crafiting a Better Economy (Documentary)
• Everyday Utopia and Radical Imagination with Kristen Ghodsee
• Extinction Rebellion with Gail Bradbrook
• The Work that Reconnects with Joanna Macy
• A World Without Profit with Jennifer Hinton
• Doughnut Economics with Kate Raworth
• Fully Automated Luxury Communism with Zarinah Agnew and Eric Wycoff Rogers

Intermission music: "A Car-Free Neighbourhood" by Field Recordings for the Future Artwork: Aga Kubish

This episode was produced in collaboration with EcoGather, an experimental educational project focused on heterodox economics, collective action, and belonging in an enlivened world. EcoGather hosts gatherings to bring some Upstream episodes to life—this is one of those episodes. The EcoGathering for this episode will be held on Friday, June 27th. Find out more at ecogather.ing.

This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "Alliance of Sahel States Pt. 1: Burkina Faso – An Anti-imperialist Introduction w/ Prudence Iticka." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber you'll get access to bi-weekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

Imperialism is the primary contradiction facing the globe—and the split of the world into two poles, the imperialists and the anti-imperialists, is going to continue to shape our revolutionary struggles moving forward. This anti-imperialist struggle is occurring all over the Global South, and perhaps nowhere quite as prominently as in Africa's Sahel region, where the countries of Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger have been waging a struggle against neocolonialism and building a movement towards pan-Africanism through the Alliance of Sahel States—an alliance that has received the praise of anti-imperialists across the globe, and which has also raised the ire of imperialists who are not happy to see Africans fight to take back control of their resources and their labor.

In this episode, we've brought on Prudence Iticka, a Camaroonian pan-Africanist and member of United African Diaspora and The Coalition for the Elimination of Imperialism in Africa, to tell us more about the AES and the struggle it's currently undertaking.

We begin with a brief history of Burkina Faso during the colonial period, and explore the rise of Thomas Sankara and the anti-imperialist movement he led, his assassination and the neocolonial puppet that replaced him for three decades, and the recent rise of the revolutionary leader Captain Ibrahim Traoré. We talk about the Alliance of Sahel States (AES)—Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger—and how they are the seeds for a pan-African future and the leading spear in the fight against imperialism and neocolonialism. We explore imperialism as the primary contradiction in the world, how imperialist propaganda infiltrates Africa and what the AES are doing to combat it, and much, much more.

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Further resources:

• United African Diaspora
• The Coalitioin for the Elimination of Imperialism in Africa (Instagram)
• The Coalition for the Elimination of Imperialism (Substack)
• Comité de Kinshasa
• Defending the AES, report back from Africa's liberated zones
• Alliance of Sahel States (AES) Solidarity Fund
• A United Front Against Debt, speech by Thomas Sankara
• The Thomas Sankara Library

Related episodes:

• Western Marxism w/ Gabriel Rockhill
• Listen to our ongoing series on China
• The Fight for The Congo w/ Vijay Prashad
• Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly

Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

There is nothing natural about the way we arrange families under capitalism—in fact, there are many who would argue that there is something quite unnatural about narrowing the experience of romance and child-rearing into the rigid form of the nuclear family. That there are much better ways of arranging these things might come as a surprise to some—but for those who have researched it, it's no shock: there are much better ways of arranging things, and there's quite a bit of evidence to back this up.

Kristen Ghodsee is Professor of Russian and East European Studies and a member of the Graduate Group in Anthropology at the University of Pennsylvania. She is the critically acclaimed author of Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life, Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism and Red Valkyries: Feminist Lessons From Five Revolutionary Women.

In today's episode, Part 2 of our ongoing series on Post Capitalist Parenting, we take a deep dive into Kristen Ghodsee's work around the family and parenting. What restraints and barriers are imposed upon us through the capitalist nuclear family? What do the pro-natalists get wrong about the obsession with birthrates and the "return to tradition" when it comes to childrearing? And what alternative arrangements are out there which can provide parents and children alike with an experience that is arguably much more healthy and sustainable than the way we do things now? These are just some of the questions we explore in this conversation with Kristen Ghodsee.

This episode was produced in collaboration with EcoGather, an experimental educational project focused on heterodox economics, collective action, and belonging in an enlivened world. EcoGather hosts gatherings to bring some Upstream episodes to life—this is one of those episodes. The EcoGathering for this episode will be held on Sunday, May 25th from 11-12:30pm ET. Find out more at ecogather.ing.

Further resources:

• Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life by Kristen Ghodsee
• Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence by Kristen Ghodsee
• Red Valkyries: Feminist Lessons From Five Revolutionary Women by Kristen Ghodsee
• The Two-Parent Privilege: How Americans Stopped Getting Married and Started Falling Behind by Melissa S. Kearney
• "Women's Unpaid Labor is Worth $10,900,000,000,000" by Gus Wezerek and Kristen R. Ghodsee

Related episodes:

• Listen to our ongoing Post Capitalist Parenting series
• Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism w/ Kristen Ghodsee
• Everyday Utopia and Radical Imagination with Kristen Ghodsee
• A Socialist Perspective on Abortion with Diana Moreno & Jenny Brown
• Post Capitalism w/ Alnoor Ladha

Intermission music: "Venus (feat. Alex Mansour)" by Stratøs

This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky.

You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "The Imperial Boomerang w/ Julian Go." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber you will have access to bi-weekly episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

The imperial boomerang, colonial feedback, fascism returning home. These are all phrases that convey the same basic idea—that the mechanisms of repression that originate in the colonies will, inevitably, return back home to the core where they will be utilized against not only marginalized populations here, but against the entire population as a whole. The boomerang exists in many different forms, but the form that we'll be focusing on today is the form of police militarization. And we've brought on a terrific guest to walk us through how it all works.

Julian Go is Professor of Sociology at the University of Chicago and author of the book Policing Empires: Militarization, Race, and the Imperial Boomerang in Britain and the US, published by Oxford University Press.

In this conversation, we explore the history of civil police forces starting with the Metropolitan Police Force of London back in the early 19th century. We explore the colonial roots of this historic force and how its architects were inspired by military tactics, tools, and technologies from England's colonies in Ireland and elsewhere. We explore how racialized subjects were criminalized at home and treated as colonized subjects were abroad, how different waves of police militarization in the US mirrored various colonial wars and occupations through the past few centuries, and how the most recent wave of militarization is just one flow of a continuously rising tide of colonial repression boomeranging back home, the only differences being the subjects targeted and the specific tactics and tools utilized to shut down dissent and criminalize a racialized subproletariat that capitalism both relies on and simultaneously disdains.

Further resources:

• Policing Empires: Militarization, Race, and the Imperial Boomerang in Britain and the US, by Julian Go
• Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radden Keefe
• #CareNotCops

Related episodes:

• Abolish the Police (Documentary)
• The End of Policing with Alex Vitale
• Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism w/ Breht O'Shea and Alyson Escalante
• Our ongoing series on Palestine
• Black Scare / Red Scare with Charisse Burden-Stelly
• Stop Cop City with Keyanna Jones and Matthew Johnson

Artwork: Berwyn Mure

Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Chris Smalls had no idea the direction his life would take when he was discharged in 2020 for organizing a walk out in protest against Amazon's safety protocols during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic. He had no idea he was about to embark on one of the most challenging David and Goliath unionization efforts of our century.

In this episode, we speak with Chris Smalls, the founder and a former president of the Amazon Labor Union, or ALU, as well as Mars Verrone, a filmmaker, musician, and educator from Los Angeles who recently produced the documentary film, Union, following Chris and the other organizers in their fight for better working conditions at Amazon. We hear the origin story of the Amazon Labor Union, learn about the internal and external challenges faced by Amazon labor organizers, and explore a broader view of the union movement and its crucial role in advocating for systemic change. Chris and Mars also talk about the importance of unions in today's political landscape—especially under the Trump Administration—and the significance of this year's May Day and its resonance for workers around the world fighting for justice, dignity, and a post-capitalist future.

This episode was sponsored by EcoGather, an experimental educational project focused on heterodox economics, collective action, and belonging in an enlivened world. As EcoGather's active phase comes to a close its self-paced online courses are being made freely available at www.ecogather.ing and its vibrant community is reconvening in a new organization called otherWise. Find out more at www.otherwise.one.

Further Resources

• Union: A Documentary Film
• Request a Screening
• Follow Union on social media @unionthefilm
• Amazon Labor Union
• Donate to Amazon Labor Union
• Congress of Essential Workers
• DegrowNYC
• Film Workers for Palestine

Related Episodes:

• International Workers' Day w/ John from Working Class History
• Technofeudalism w/ Yanis Varoufakis
• Prefigurative Politics and Workplace Democracy w/ Saio Gradin and Nicole Wires
• Our ongoing From the Frontline series
• International Workers' Day w/ John from Working Class History

Intermission music: "You Are Not a Number" Original score for Union by Robert Aiki and Aubrey Lowe

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "China Ep. 5: A Socialist Approach to Ecological Development w/ Tings Chak". You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber you will have access to bi-weekly episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

One of the primary challenges facing Global South countries in the 21st century is the question of sustainable and just development—how do you raise living standards and eliminate poverty, what some refer to as the process of industrialization, without going down the same ecologically destructive and often deadly path that Western capitalist countries went down—the path of slavery, genocide, colonization, and now, a form of neocolonialism that is essentially colonialism in all but name. How can you compete in a global capitalist economy against countries that have no qualms about ethnically cleansing an entire people just so that they can build a "riviera of the Middle East"?

Well, this is a massive question that cannot be answered in a single episode, but we can begin to chip away at it and uncover some lessons and explore some evidence-based analyses that can help us to at least understand the alternative approaches that at least some Global South countries are experimenting with—because, despite what the monsters in power want us to think—there are alternatives to capitalism.

In this conversation, we've brought on Tings Chak to talk about China's attempts to balance ecological and human development through the lens of a specific environmental project. Tings Chak is the Art Director and Asia Coordinator at Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research and Editor of Wenhua Zongheng. She is the co-author of the recent piece "Reviving Erhai Lake: A Socialist Approach to Balancing Human and Ecological Development" published in Tricontinental.

In this conversation, we talk about Erhai Lake—which is the site of a restoration and cleanup project that China has been working on for quite some time now. A decade ago, Erhai Lake was a microcosm of how China's rapid economic development led to ecological devastation. Today, it's an example of quite the opposite—how China aims to move towards its own stated goal of creating an ecological civilization that represents a harmonious balance between ecological and human development.

How and why did the Communist Party of China initiate a massive poverty reduction and ecological restoration project across the country, and how does Erhai Lake fit into it? What can be learned from this project by other Global South countries looking for alternatives to the capitalist model of development? And why should we be exploring these questions in the first place? This is just some of what we cover in this conversation between Robert and Tings Chak.

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Artwork: Tricontinental

Further resources:

• Reviving Erhai Lake: A Socialist Approach to Balancing Human and Ecological Development, by Xiong Jie and Tings Chak
• Wenhua Zongheng
• China and CoronaShock
• Serve the People: The Eradication of Extreme Poverty in China
• Chinese-Style Modernization: Revolution and the Worker-Peasant Alliance, by Lu Xinyu
• Without Culture, Freedom Is Impossible: The Thirty-Eighth Newsletter (2022)
• Culture as a Weapon of Struggle: The Medu Art Ensemble and Southern African Liberation

Related episodes:

• (Chinese) Socialism vs (U.S.) Capitalism
• Listen to our ongoing series on China

Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

"What is the price of an assassin's bullet? Some dollars here and there. The cost of the bullet. The cost of a taxi ride, a hotel, an airplane, the money paid to hire the assassin, his silence purchased through a payment into a Swiss bank, the cost to him psychologically for having taken the life of one, two, three, or four. But the biggest price is not paid by the intelligence services. The biggest price is paid by the people. For in these assassinations, these murders, this violence of intimidation, it is the people who lose their leaders in their localities. Each bullet fired struck down a Revolution and gave birth to our present barbarity. This is a book about bullets."

These are the words of Vijay Prashad in the opening paragraphs of his book, Washington Bullets: The History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations—a fascinating and meticulously researched and gut-wrenchingly evocative book which takes readers on a tour of the US empire's wide-ranging project of global dominance.

Vijay Prashad is a journalist, political commentator, and Executive Director of Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research. He's the author of many books including Red Star Over the Third World, The Darker Nations, and the book that we'll be discussing today, Washington Bullets.

This conversation explores many of the concepts outlined in the Washington Bullets, from the CIA's manual for regime change to how economic shock and military coups were utilized to achieve said regime changes in countries like Chile. But more than just a chapter by chapter overview, today's conversation with Vijay takes many side-alleys and side-paths that range from the importance of art and emotion in politics, why we need to rethink the idea of conspiracy theories, why cancel culture is a dead end, and why the left needs to reexamine its use of language and propaganda in the face of a US cultural apparatus that won the PR campaign against socialism decades ago.

Further Resources

• Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research
• Washington Bullets, by Vijay Prashad

Related Episodes:

• China Pt. 3: Bourgeois Democracy vs Socialist Democracy w/ Vijay Prashad
• The Fight for The Congo w/ Vijay Prashad

Intermission music: "Stolen Empires" by Andrew Glencross

Artwork: Tings Chak

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "How Fascism Works." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber you will have access to bi-weekly episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this episode of our reading series, Robbie reads and provides real-time analysis of the opening chapter of the classic book Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism & the Overthrow of Communism by Michael Parenti. The text covers the topics of plutocracy and autocracy, whom the fascists last century supported, a bit of history on Hitler and Mussolini, the rational and irrational aspects of fascism, patriarchy and pseudo-revolution, collaboration, and much more.

The analysis provided in the reading brings this text into our current conditions and looks at where Parenti's analysis holds up and where it might need to be stretched and adapted to help us understand the rise of neofascism in the United States under Trump and his modern day fascist footsoldiers. We explain why it's more important than ever to resist collaboration and to stand in full solidarity with all of the racialized and criminalized "others" in order to combat the fearmongering and scapegoating that fascism relies on in order to grow in strength.

Further resources:

• Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism, by Michael Parenti

Related episodes:

• From the Frontlines: State Repression and Anti-Imperialist Organizing w/ Calla Walsh
• Capitalism, The State, and How We Got Here with Christian Parenti

Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

The moniker The Merrimack Four might be something you're already familiar with—perhaps you saw the headlines in the late fall of 2023 about a handful of direct actionists being arrested on the rooftop of a facility owned by a major weapons manufacturer in New Hampshire. Maybe you heard about the multiple felony charges that were being pressed against these actionists, the concern about RICO charges…or maybe you haven't heard about any of this at all. Regardless of how familiar you are with the Merrimack Four, you'd be hard-pressed not to be gripped by the story you're about to hear recounting the events of November, 2023 from someone who was actually on that rooftop facing down US empire.

Calla Walsh is an anti-imperialist organizer and activist who was part of the Merrimack Four—a group of activists who faced severe state repression in response to an action organized by Palestine Action US against an Elbit Systems facility in Merrimack, New Hampshire—Elbit is one of the major arms suppliers to the IDF—or more accurately IOF—in Israel.

In this conversation, Calla tells us about the momentous event which changed her life forever. She talks about Palestine Action—an organization who you might be familiar with if you've been listening to our series on Palestine—and walks us through the action in New Hampshire, her arrest along with her fellow actionists, and the long and winding journey through the legal system which landed her in jail. We talk about state repression more broadly, looking at what is taking place right now under the Trump administration with abductions and deportations, talk about some cases that haven't made it into the mainstream coverage, and end with a discussion about why Palestine is the tip of the spear when it comes to the fight against US imperialism.

Further Resources

• Calla Walsh
• The case against the Merrimack Three is an attack on the Palestine movement as a whole, Mondoweiss
• Palestine Action
• Support Women in Valley Street Jail (GoFundMe)
• Struggling single mama looking for help (GoFundMe)
• Capitailsm Plus Dope Equals Genocide
• Perfect Victims And the Politics of Appeal, Mohammed El-Kurd
• Samidoun: Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network
• #FreeCaseyNow: On Casey Goonan and the Abandonment of Political Prisoners in the Pro-Palestine Movement

Related Episodes:

• Palestine Pt. 7: Direct Action w/ Max Geller of Palestine Action
• Palestine Pt. 11: Israel and the U.S. Empire w/ Max Ajl
• Palestine Pt. 12: Resistance in the West w/ Max Geller and Sanyika
• Stop Cop City with Keyanna Jones and Matthew Johnson
• Listen to our 14-part series on Palestine
• Listen to our ongoing From the Frontline series

Intermission music: "Erase" by Scary Hours

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "China Ep. 4: Unlearning Anti-China Propaganda w/ Li Jingjing". You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber you'll get access to bi-weekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

Living in a world dominated by the United States leaves us all with a lifetime of propaganda to unlearn. No matter what corner of the globe we're in, we're not immune to Western hegemony and the hard and soft power deployed to brainwash our minds, exploit our bodies, and destroy our cultures. But there are, despite the power of capitalist PR and commodity fetishism—alternative pathways. There are ways to unlearn the propaganda. And in today's episode, we're going to attempt to do just that: break at least some of the chains of imperialist propaganda when it comes to China.

Li Jingjing is a multimedia reporter at China Global Television Network, or CGTN, based in Beijing, China. And despite the scare-tactics of Mark Zuckerberg and our other tech overlords labeling her Instagram account as "China state-controlled media"—which is a real pot calling the kettle black moment as the oligarchs in the White House text their plans to bomb hospitals in Yemen to high-profile journalists—despite these red-scare labels applied to Li only meant to fearmonger and propagandize, Li's social media is a breath of fresh air when it comes to unlearning Western propaganda on China.

In this conversation, Episode 4 of our China series, we bring some of Li's shorter videos dispelling propaganda to you in a more longform way, starting with a conversation about her recent coverage of the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, which we introduced in Part 2 of this series with Ken Hammond. Li explains to us how the political system in China works and what some of the policy outcomes of these conferences were before embarking on a fascinating conversation that weaves together personal anecdotes and stories with data and statistics to dismantle many of the myths we believe about China and which reveal a picture of a society that our warmongering policymakers and their lapdogs in the media don't want you to know about.

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Artwork: Chinese Communist Party propaganda poster commemorating the 60th anniversary of the founding of the party.

Further resources:

• CGTN
• Li Jingjing on Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok
• Studies show strong public support for China's political system, Jason Hickel
• Ne Zha 2 (film)

Related episodes:

• (Chinese) Socialism vs (U.S.) Capitalism
• Listen to our ongoing series on China

Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.