Dr. Nika Spaulding

Do you value the “boring” parts of the Bible? If you’ve ever read through the Bible or have encountered sections that you might consider boring, this episode will give you reasons to care about them. According to BOW’s guest speaker, Dr. Nika Spaulding, Leviticus, the genealogies, and other scriptures can actually be places of learning, encouragement and joy. Her conversation with Dr. Kay Daigle will blow your mind as you see the riches that these passages hold.

This episode is available on video if you prefer it.

00:20 Introduction to Nika and the topic

Kay >> Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast and video. I’m Kay Daigle your host. And today I’m joined by Dr. Nika Spaulding.

Nika >> Wow. The Doctor! Wow!

Kay >> Yeah, well, we are so happy about that. And congratulations to you on that. That’s a big deal.

Nika >> Thank you, Dr. Kay.

Kay >> You’re welcome.

Well, Nika is a frequent guest. We have her often because she always has so many good things to say. And she has a Th.M. from DTS as well as a D.Min. from Northern Seminary. Today we are going to talk about valuing the so-called boring chapters of the Bible.

Nika >> Yeah.Kay >> Now, Nika, who needs to hear this?

Nika >> Everyone. Everyone needs to hear. And I mean that! You know, you and I always talk about what is it we want to talk about? What do we want to bring to Beyond Ordinary Women. And it tends to just kind of grow out of whatever research I’m doing at that time, whatever I’m studying and learning.

And right now I’m doing this thing where I’m teaching through each book of the Bible, one chapter at a time. So I’m halfway on a little bit more than halfway through Exodus. We’ve done all of Genesis. We’ve done all of Exodus. And it made me realize how tempting it would be to skip some chapters. Like, if I’m being honest, there’s some chapters and I’m like, “Huh, I’m not as excited about this chapter as I would, you know, Abraham sacrificing Isaac or whatever.” There’s just certain parts of the Bible you think, “Really?”

And yet I have found because I’m forcing myself to do it, I’m discovering these so-called boring passages like genealogies, the tabernacle instructions, places like that. What I’m discovering is actually they are critical chapters to one, our understanding of the Bible. But also there’s so much like good juice to squeeze out of that fruit for our spiritual formation and for our development. That shouldn’t surprise us if Scripture tells us that all Scripture is God breathed inspired by God and useful for these things.

And so I really do believe this is one of those videos for everybody, whether you’re teaching through the Bible, studying the Bible, coming to the Bible for the first time, confused about the so-called boring parts of the Bible. This is a video for you.

Kay >> Yes. I wish I had had this video when I started with my group, that is reading through the Bible in two years, because we’ve already made it through a lot of those chapters. And I thought you were very positive just to say not as excited about these chapters because I think many of us aren’t even excited at all.

Nika >> About, you know.

Kay >> We just want to get through these chapters. This gal who is reading through the Bible with this group told us that she puts her finger under every name because in the genealogies or other times where they’re lists of people just so that she reads every single name and doesn’t just skip over it.

Nika >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s great. I not only do I teach through it, but I read those chapters. So maybe part of my dread is I have to pronounce all of these ancient Hebrew names. And so I’ve made a habit when I make my way through it, I go, “Nailed it,” Whether I nailed it or not, because it’s my Hebrew is not that strong.

But I if you would have told me ten years ago, I would have told you, these are boring parts and I’m not excited. I after a decade of studying the Scriptures, I have learned enough that often God has something in store for us in those chapters. And so it really is maybe anticipation if I’m coming to it going, I don’t know yet at first glance what’s in this chapter waiting for me, it’s rare that I get to the end of my studying know nothing there was nothing in there for me.

So I’ve actually found there’s really beautiful things in there, which is what we’re going to talk about today. Like what do what do you do when you come to these so-called boring parts of the Bible? How do we get these beautiful hidden and maybe not so hidden for some people, but hidden for some of us gems out of the Bible.

Kay >> Right and there are some scriptures that tell us that we should be reading all parts of the Bible, right?

Nika >> Yeah, that’s exactly right. I, I mentioned the 1 Timothy passage where it says that all the Scriptures, God breathed— this idea of inspiration. So we have human authors that wrote the Bible. And if it was just human authors, I’d probably be like, “What does Moses know? No, he didn’t get them all right,” you know? No, there is no singular human author that I think every chapter, every paragraph they’ve ever written has been amazing.

But when you add that God himself is also the author of the Scriptures, and he’s telling us about his own Word, that all of it is from him, written not necessary to us, but for us and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training your righteousness. Suddenly then, that’s why we don’t skip these chapters. Because if we’re going to believe God at face value. And then you get to Psalm 119, a incredible psalm all about the beauty and the goodness of the Scriptures. And the psalmist is saying I meditate on it day and night and there is this joy and delight that I get from doing that.

And he doesn’t say I meditate on the parts I like or I meditate on, you know, the better parts. The Bible itself is meditative literature. And when you spend time in it, suddenly the face of God starts looking back at you and the parts of the Bible that—and I would say like the parts of the Bible that maybe are boring to us are also because there’s thousands of years and a cultural divide. So genealogies to the ancient audience, immediately they’d go, “Well, those are valuable. That’s obviously valuable.”For us Westerners, more individualistic societies, we don’t naturally understand that. But at the Scripture itself in these passages tell us, “Hey, this is what the Bible is. It’s God’s Word given to us as this beautiful inheritance. And if you meditate on it, joy and delight and goodness is there waiting for you.” Well then that’s a pretty good invitation from God to look into these passages.

Kay >> Right? I love that. So what’s your first example of a passage like this?

Nika >> I want to start with the Tabernacle because that’s where I’m at. I’m teaching through it right now. I just finished the first set of the Tabernacle. And part of the reason why I think people find the Tabernacle boring is I think they’re willing to read all those tedious instructions one time. But the way this is set up is you read them all one time, (chapters 26-31).

And then we have the Golden Calf incident and some narrative there of, “Oh, what’s going to happen?”

I mean, the people have just said, “Hey, God, we’re with you.” And then by the time Moses comes down the mountain with the instructions they’ve completely forfeited. I mean, they’re just, you know, they run away from God.

So then we get the Tabernacle instructions almost identical. I mean, like literally it’s like this almost identical passage. And this time they’re actually following. So this is the blueprint, and then this is them following the blueprint.

So when you feel deja vu in the Bible, it’s not probably a mistake. There’s a reason why you’re feeling it is repeating itself. And so I think some people would be tempted to move past it because it’s there twice.

And then for our, you know, type B not so detail-oriented people, there’s a lot of detail. I mean, there’s like the cubits. Yeah. I mean, down to the colors. The all of it. I mean, yeah.

Kay >> Yeah. You kind of think, who cares? Yeah.

Nika >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kay >> What’s the difference?

Nika >> Yeah. Well, and then you think who cares in the sense of— if these details mattered then (and they do), do they really matter today? We’re not building a tabernacle. We are now, you know, the tabernacles of God, right? Got Jesus comes and becomes the tabernacle for us and by his Spirit. So you kind of have this theological development where you go, I get why it was important then but does it really matter today?

And actually, I would say yes. Actually all of those details point to really beautiful truths about what it means for God to desire to dwell with these people.

So the first thing you have to do when you read the Tabernacle is come to understand it’s a rebuilding of Eden. So when we think of even what the tabernacle is, it’s not just a fancy tent. Like God’s not just like super into interior design, right?

There is a theological truth to that where when God created humanity, place them in the garden, he gave them meaningful choice, but he desired to dwell with them and they forfeited. And so when God goes and rescues Israel out of Egypt, he’s offering them the same invitation that Adam and Eve had.

And the Tabernacle then becomes a mobile Edenic-type space where God and man can meet again, where the Spirit of God is going to meet. So when you think of it like that, suddenly the details start to point backwards to Eden.

You think of like it talks about, you know, you’re going to make the tabernacle in the Most Holy Place and you’re going to embroider cherubim, which are angels. Well, the cherubim are part of the Eden story. They’re there guarding Eden. When you think about the colors and the ornateness of it, it’s like God’s using the best of creation to make this tent. Why? Because God is bougie (9:34) and likes gold? Like you don’t know. It’s because God is saying this tent is going to represent the best of creation, which is what Eden was.

And maybe my favorite detail of the whole tabernacle is it even tells you how to orient it, whether the face east, west, you know, all of that. And when you think of the biblical story going east of Eden is bad, Okay? So when they fail, they get banished East of Eden. Right after that, when Cain kills Abel, God sends him farther east.

I call it like east-er of Eden, like even farther east. So in the Bible, directionally, when you’re moving east away from Eden, it’s because of a separation between you and God. So God has them orient it where people actually walk back toward the west to get into the Most Holy Place. You have to move actually back toward Eden, back in the westward direction, back in that direction.

And so I say all of this that you have these details and you think, well, that’s weird. Why does he care what direction it faces? Like is that just about sunlight? And it’s like, no, he’s making a theological point that you can always go home. He’s making the point that though they forfeited Eden in Genesis 3, God’s desire is always for humanity to go home, to be with God, which is the culmination of the whole biblical story, like when we get to Revelation.

And so right there in those Tabernacle instructions, God is telling us, I want you to be at home with me. So you can read those boring parts and say, Okay, it has to face east, west or whatever. Or you can say this is an invitation to go home where you have always belonged with the Lord and all of these details speak to a God who desires for humanity to be with him.

Kay >> Yeah, I love that. I love that. That’s just a beautiful picture. The Garden of Eden and the garden in the temple.

Nika >> Yeah.

Kay >> The Tabernacle, of course, becomes the temple later. And so many of those same details are true in the temple.

Nika >> Yeah. One of my favorite details at the very end of the first of the tabernacle instructions, I think this is so neat at the very end, I can I always say like, “What is Moses feeling? He’s been up on the mountain with God. He’s just freed the Israelites. They’re already grumbling and complaining so they’re already kind of a pain in his side at this point.”

God invites him to come up to Sinai to get all these instructions. And I’m thinking to myself, if I’m halfway through the instructions, I’m going, “I don’t know how to do metalwork. I don’t know how to embroider. You know, I’m already on I want I need some help. You know, I’m going to need some real help here.”

And so right at the end of the instructions, God, says to Moses, “Hey, I’ve picked these two guys, Oholiab and Bezalel, and they’re going to be filled with my Spirit to help you make these things exactly how I’ve told you.” And what’s interesting is he says, “I’ve given them wisdom, understanding and knowledge.” There’s these three Hebrew words wisdom, understanding and knowledge in order to make the Edenic tent for you.

So when you get to the temple, it’s exactly what you’ve said, that Hiram becomes the guy like the Oholiab in that case, and it says, “I’m going to give him wisdom, understanding and knowledge,” same three Hebrew words, and you think, Well, that’s pretty cool. So the tabernacle is the temple.

Even more cool as you get to Proverbs 3, and it talks about how God created the world—so going back to the creation account, which is what this, is with wisdom, understanding and knowledge.

So the Bible writers are not dumb, they are so smart. And they put these details in there to say to us, “God has created a good world. We continue to make it bad. And yet God makes a way over and over again through the Tabernacle, the temple, through Jesus and through the eventual restoration, when all things are made new, that God wants us to be in a world built on wisdom, understanding and knowledge. And we always get the chance to be with God. He never is like, “You guys stink.”

All right, good. Look, he’s always coming and finding us. And so all these details, all these details about the Tabernacle basically scream at us, “God desires to be with his people.” That Emmanuel. God with us. It’s not just a reality in Jesus, it’s that God’s disposition toward humanity has always been to dwell with us.

And so when you read these Tabernacle instructions, you’re going, “Oh, God really cares about being with us. He really is trying to teach us about what it means to be at home with him.” And so there’s just something about that, that it speaks to a God of relationship, a God of love, a God of grace, a God of mercy, and something this boring tabernacle is yelling at you that God loves you.

And I just I think that’s really something.

Kay >> It really is. Thank you for telling us all about that. I think that that makes anyone listening to this far more appreciative of the tabernacle and the temple and the way that they look toward Jesus as well. I love all of that. So that is the tabernacle.

What is the “what else?”

Well, I think we’ve already talked about the fact that the genealogy, and maybe we ought to get into that.

Nika >> Yeah, let’s do it.

What I like about the genealogies is we clump them all together and then throw them out together when each of them are like, Hey, hi, I’m a little different than the other one.

So there are actual genealogies in the Bible that become really apparent quickly that they hold a lot of value and the ones I’m thinking of are at the beginning of the gospels, right? You’ve got Matthew’s genealogy and you’ve got Luke’s genealogy, which are very different than the ones that you’re going to see in the book of Numbers and all of that.

So what I would say is when you approach a genealogy, make sure you approach it on its own terms. And what I mean by that is what is that genealogy doing in the story? Because depending on what it’s doing, you’re going to get something a little different out of it.

And so perfect example of what I just talked about. The Matthew genealogy, it connects first of all–there are women in the bloodline, which is so rare in the ancient world. Like women do not get mentioned. So the fact that Matthew, who is a Jewish man, who knows that, includes women, means that God wants to tell us something about women. I think that’s vitally important.

But God also is making sure in that genealogy, Matthew, is making sure Abraham and David are mentioned. And what that is telling to a predominantly Jewish audience is Jesus is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant, and Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant. So that Matthew is very much taking a very known Jewish thing, which is a genealogy and making sure people see, hey, the promises of God, find their yes and amen in Christ. And by the way, God loves women and always has go look up Jesus, His great grandmothers and all of that.Luke’s genealogy is actually less regal. He’s not as concerned about the Davidic and the Abrahamic promised. Same Jesus, two different genealogies with differences, which makes us kind of go, “Huh, there’s something a little different here.”

Luke’s genealogy, rather than focusing on the regal side of Jesus family, goes all the way back to Adam. And it’s as if Luke is saying all of humanity is in Christ. So where Matthew wants to emphasize the covenants and say, “Hey, the fulfillment of what God promised Israel is in Jesus,” Luke says, “Hey, all of humanity is bound up in this man who’s going to save humanity and in a couple of chapters in my story. Same guy, two different genealogies, two different purposes.

And so that same idea of what is this genealogy doing, we can go backwards in the Old Testament, say, “Okay, what is this genealogy doing?” Sometimes the genealogy is helping us move the story along. And so it’s like, “Hey, we’re here in the time in history and now we’ve got to get a couple hundred years ahead.”

So the genealogy moves us very quickly. But what that shows us is God can move us forward with events. He doesn’t have to use people. And what that shows us is God really values people. that for God, the events are important, but the people that move history forward are really important to God.

And then we get to like the Chronicles and they have all these genealogies. If you’ve ever read the problem with so many Protestant Bibles is Chronicles comes right after Kings and you’re like, I’ve already read this before and now you’re putting all these genealogies in here. Poor Chronicles—it just gets such a bad beat in the Bible.

So in the Jewish collection of scriptures, 1 and 2 Chronicles are actually at the very end of the Old Testament and there’s a reason for that. And when you understand what Chronicles is trying to do, it actually helps you read the stories differently.

But those genealogies focus on Levites and the line of David. So Levites are the tribe that do all of the temple work, so they’re the ones that do all the tabernacle in the temple work. So they’re really concerned about that part of Israel’s history. And then the Davidic line is of course, a line through which the kings come in, which the promises of the king.

Why would Chronicles focus on that? Well, because Chronicles is actually written at the end of the Old Testament, and it’s a reminder that despite the exile, despite their failure, despite their rebellion, God is still maintaining the temple and the Davidic line because the promises of God carry forward and they carry forward through people again, they don’t carry it forward necessarily through events.

It’s through these people that God has continue to show His faith on this Israel and that God is continuing to show His faithfulness to the people that that are in his covenant. And so these genealogies, I get it. I love that story about she puts her finger on them because I think about it, if you were in the Bible, I just think this is mind blowing.

Like we’re going to get to the new heavens and the earth. We’re going to have people from every like eon of, of God’s people, right? You’re going to meet people that were alive in the days of Deborah. We’re going to meet people and somebody’s going to be like, oh, my name’s so-and-so. And you’re like, oh, Okay. And they’re like, I’m in the second genealogy in Chronicles.

You may recognize me from there. Anything that’s amazing and like that is amazing. And to think about that person where God is saying, I value that person so much that in the book, that’s really a book about me, I include these people that I so deeply love. And so when we’re reading through The Chronicles or any of the genealogies, they do serve a purpose.

So that’s why I’d say it’s like the first thing you have to do is find out what is the point of this genealogy. And then that helps me to read it in the context that it’s in.

But to your woman who puts her finger on the names, it teaches us something about our God and his value of humans. Because there are so many texts, religious texts, that they don’t include people like this. They don’t care. Their god, their deity’s, not concerned. People are not important.

But when God says, “You are my image and I’m going to partner with you to bless the world,” he wasn’t kidding. So much so that in his beautiful book that he coauthors with all these humans, he’s like, “Oh, and don’t forget about Bill and Tim and Sally. Don’t forget about these people because I am moving through time and space to bring about the salvation of the world through actual skin and bone human people.”

And so when you’re reading your Bible and you think,” I don’t know if God cares about me. I don’t know if, you know, my life is valuable. I don’t know if God is distant.”

Suddenly the genealogies are now yelling at us: God loves his people and he partners with them in the world, and he tells his story through them. God allows humans to tell his story, which is the humility of God is always for me. And so those I always say I love what you’re what your gal is doing.

And I think you know, and yeah, it’s a beautiful exercise to do that.

Kay >> After she said that, I’ve noticed that I’ve tended to just kind of get through. I mean, I wasn’t really skipping.

Nika >> Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Kay >> I was noticing them, but I wasn’t noticing them very well.

Nika >> Yeah.

Kay >> So I’ve really slowed down.

Nika >> I do think if someone got to 1 Chronicles, and they skipped the first nine chapters because they’re all genealogies, I probably would look the other way. In the beginning, I’d probably look the other way. So here’s what I’d say. If you’re there and you’re reading plan and you’re like, I hear you all, but goodness gracious, there’s a lot of names here.

Here’s what I’d say to you. Let yourself meditate on the generations of God’s faithfulness. That not one generation represented there ever saw that God had forsaken them, not one of them. And that’s where I think the meditative part of that is to slow down and say, “What is God doing through these people?” But I do think that’s the one part of the Bible that if somebody said, “What’s the least read part in my Bible?,” that would be the part.

And so the beginning of 1Chronicles would definitely be the part that I’m like, kind of understand why people skip that. But the generations of God’s faithfulness there. So when we talk about will God be faithful to us?, well ask all those people. You can’t. But, you know, if you could, I think they’d tell you we never saw God forsake us.

And that matters.

Kay >> Well, and I think about how this was written to a people who had been dispersed out of the land. They had been taken out of the land, and God had always promised he would bring them back.

Nika >> Yeah.

Kay >> When their hearts return to him. They would bring them back. He would. And he does. And this is all recorded, I mean, it’s really so valuable just for that. Just to know all these people came back, just as God had said.

Nika >> Yeah, I mean. yeah, the devastation of the exile is the devastation. Right? We think of the Exodus, the enslavement. And that is one thing where you say, “Okay, evil was acted upon them by Pharaoh.” So God’s rescue of them is big, and it becomes a paradigm for redemption. The exile becomes a paradigm for failure because you go, “Well, you kind of brought this on yourselves, you know,” if you’re really reading the story.

And yet God at the end of Deuteronomy 30. At the end of all of these books, he’s consistently saying, “I will, I will bring you home. I will bring you home.”

I mean, even one of my favorite stories in the book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah is this prophet who’s telling them like, “Hey, guys, it’s too late. You know, you’re going to drink the cup of God’s wrath, and then the nations are going to drink the cup of God’s wrath because God is good.” And then about Babylon, “Don’t worry, just because Babylon is God’s a vessel for judgment now, like God will judge Babylon too.”

But there’s this really small story that if you move too quickly, you’ll move past it too quickly. And it’s where Jeremiah buys a piece of land in Israel. And he knows they’re about to be exiled. I mean, he knows they’re going to be exiled 70 years. They’re going to be away from land. But it’s as if to say Jeremiah is going “I believe God. I believe that we are going to come back to this land. So I’m going to buy a piece of land because I believe that someday our nation will come back here and this will be land that I own.”

So yeah, those names in Chronicles. Those are not just the names. Yeah. They’re not just a random set of names because God cares about people. Those are people that God is saying, “I told you I’d bring you home and I’m bringing you home.”

The Davidic line was always intact. There’s also this story at the very end of Jeremiah, where the king has been carried off into exile last we saw, things are not going well for him. And then all of a sudden, for reasons no one knows, the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzer, was like, “Why don’t you come eat at my table?”

But suddenly a son of David is sitting at the king’s table and you’re like, huh? Like, you know, except to say, “God’s like, oh, I still have I still have my promises on David’s kids.”

Like, I haven’t. Just because they’re not in the land does not mean I have forsaken my promises. And so those names just like, suddenly they warm your heart because it’s about faithfulness.

It’s not about random people.

Kay >> That’s right. So you have any last words for everybody?

Nika >> Yeah, I think one is really helpful to read the Old Testament in the order. It was sort of meant to be read, and I don’t say that as like any I’m Protestant. My Bibles have always, you know, they’ve always. But I think if you move 1 and 2 Chronicles to where it belongs, then suddenly this book, that feels very redundant because you’ve just finished 1 and 2 Kings, it doesn’t feel as redundant.

It’s what we’re talking about. Suddenly it becomes a story of despite it all, God was faithful.

So that’s, that’s the first thing is like let the Bible present itself to you the way I was meant to meant to be presented. And then, like, does help with some of these things.

But I think the other piece of it is if you’re moving too quickly through the Bible, I would argue, yeah, these are boring parts. I would grant that, which is why the Bible is meditative literature.

If at first glance you’re like, “Oh, that was a weird chapter and anything out of it was about embroidering the tent. I don’t know. I learned there are horns on the altar. I’m about horns.”

But if you go, no, let me really slow down. Let me ask God to show me something. Let me read with people.

Which is what I love about what you’re doing, Kay. Like reading together is so critical to the way that’s how the Bible was designed. It was designed to be read together. There’s internal clues that it’s meant to be communal literature.

So if you slow down and you read it in community, and you ask God to show you things. And you believe him when he says that all Scripture is written by me. Suddenly these boring parts become the kind of literature that you can then say, Hey, “I’m seeing the faithfulness of God here. I’m seeing that God loves me and wants to dwell with me. I’m seeing that despite humanity’s failure, God continues to remain faithful to the promises.”

And these are foundational truths to what it means to be a believer. I mean, these are not small things that we’re learning. It’s not like, Oh, I learned what to do with a random goat that’s dead. Like Leviticus talks about this like, don’t eat it, you know, like there are random parts of the Bible that your going, yeah, I learned what to do with dead animals. It’s like, Okay, that’s not what God is saying.

He’s saying, “I want a people who is set apart for me to demonstrate to the world who I am and I am the God of love. I’m the God that goes with you in exile, the God that loves you. And I’m the God that even when you guys do bonehead things, I don’t give up on you.” And those are foundational to who we are as the people of God.

<p>And so that’s why I’d say is slow down, receive the Bible as God, you know, sort of we understand we’re supposed to receive it. Do it in community, and then expect something beautiful to come out of it. And if you do that, I think you’ll suddenly go, I don’t really think there are too many boring parts of the Bible.There really are just parts that I don’t understand yet. And then as I spend that time, as I mine out of it, then there’s this gold that comes out of it for me at the end of them.

Kay >> Well, Nika we’ve loved having you, as always. Nika has been a frequent guest, as I’ve said, and she has a number of resources on our podcast and video you can search for her at our site, BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. Go up to Resources on the pull down the menu and go to the Media List and then you can search her name, and everything that we’ve done with Nika will be on there.

I would also suggest for those of you who are teachers who might have really been attracted to this particular topic, that you can go up to the same pull down menu on Resources, go to Leadership Development, and then Studying and Teaching the Bible. And that page will not only have this video on it, we’ll have link to the podcast of all sorts of resources there that will help you as a teacher or if you’re just studying the Bible it will help you.

So we have loved having you today and we’ve enjoyed this great conversation about something that most people think is boring and now we know it’s not boring anymore. So thank you for sharing that with us.

Nika >> I love it. Yeah, I love doing anything with you guys, so I’m always honored to be a part of it, Kay.

Kay >> Well, we’ll look forward to next time we have you on and for the rest of you, we will see you then.