Joining Cliff for this episode is Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby, whose first column appeared 30 years ago this week. Jeff’s career as a journalist has included interviews with Elie Wiesel and Mikhail Gorbachev, and on-the-ground reporting from such exotic locales as Cuba, the Korean DMZ, and Gaza.

Cliff asks Jeff how he came to his world view; what he saw in Gaza during visits from the 1970s to early 2000s; why a “Hitlerian” variant of antisemitism has reemerged; and what lessons might be learned from Israel’s experiments and experiences.