Today’s episode is our second in a series where we take a deep dive into a concept that hovers just at the edge of language: the subtle body. It’s one of those ideas that seems to belong everywhere and nowhere at once -- the subtle body is part of Daoist practice, Indian yoga, Christian mysticism, and, of course, the experimental, boundary-blurring culture of Esalen itself. Depending on who you ask, it might be described as an invisible anatomy, a field of energy, or a map of consciousness.

To help understand this topic, today we're joined by Charles Stang and Simon Cox.

Charles Stang is a professor at Harvard Divinity School and director of the Center for the Study of World Religions, where he focuses on early Christian thought and mysticism. Simon Cox is a scholar and martial artist who trained for six years in Daoist internal arts in China. He is the author of The Subtle Body: A Genealogy, a book that traces how this concept evolves across cultures and history.

Today we begin a three part series in which we explore the idea of the subtle body, a concept found in many contemplative and healing traditions around the world. From yogic energy channels to Daoist internal alchemy, the subtle body refers to the layers of human experience that lie between the physical body and consciousness, suggesting that our lives may unfold through more dimensions than the purely material.

In this episode, scholar and martial artist Simon Cox interviews Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy. Murphy was born in Salinas, California in 1930, making him a lively 95 years old at the time of this recording. He is a longtime student of Sri Aurobindo’s integral philosophy and the author of numerous innovative books that approach the topic of the subtle body — including 1992's The Future of the Body and 1995’s In the Zone. Throughout his career, Murphy has made it a priority to investigate extraordinary human capacities and the further evolution of human nature.

Simon Cox brings a unique perspective to this conversation. he spent six years training in Daoist internal arts at Wudang Mountain in China before earning his PhD from Rice University. His book The Subtle Body: A Genealogy traces the history of subtle body concepts across cultures, and his research explores how these ideas have shaped both Eastern and Western spiritual traditions. He’s currently a research fellow at Esalen’s Center for Theory and Research. He holds weekly conversations with Michael Murphy as part of a collaborative effort to illuminate the deeper architecture of Esalen’s mission. Simon is currently writing a new book on Esalen’s intellectual history — a mythic excavation of Murphy’s “Big Vision”: the radical, reality-bending aspiration that seeded Esalen’s creation and continues to shape its evolutionary field.

Photo of Michael Murphy: Kate Kondratieva

Tamala Floyd is an Internal Family Systems therapist whose work focuses on ancestral healing.

Internal Family Systems, or IFS, begins with the premise that we are not a single, unified self; instead we are more like a constellation of parts, where some parts protect, some are exiled. The unification and integration of parts is the crucial work of IFS.

Additionally, some parts carry burdens that never belonged to us in the first place — legacy burdens made up of beliefs and patterns inherited through our generational lines. This is where Tamala's work often focuses.

If you’re interested in IFS, I think you’ll find that this is a really fascinating conversation with a deeply experienced and wise practitioner. Tamala and I talk about how her retreats function, how thirty people holding space can deepen one person’s unburdening, and what healing looks like when the body knows it’s being held with love.

https://www.tamalafloyd.com

Joe Dolce is a writer and journalist whose work has long traced the shifting frontier of our relationship with altered states. He's the author of "Brave New Weed: Adventures into the Uncharted World of Cannabis: and his newest book, "Modern Psychedelics: a Handbook for Mindful Exploration" Is nothing short of a contemporary compendium on the subject. It's a lucid, deeply informed guide to the medicines, the science, the histories, and the human stories that shape this always evolving field.

Follow Joe's Awesome Substack on Psychedelics:

https://joedolce.substack.com/

Pamela Hayes Malkoff is a board-certified art therapist who has spent more than three decades working at the intersection of creativity and healing. She is an internationally recognized facilitator and teacher, who supports individuals, couples, families, and communities, with particular care for people navigating addiction and recovery, questions of identity, grief, anxiety, and the terrain of relationships and sexuality.

In this conversation, we explore what art therapy really is, why you definitely don’t need to be an artist to access it, and how the creative process can help people externalize fear and soften shame. We talk about monsters, bridges, vulnerability in group work, and the particular kind of healing that emerges when art, psychology, and community meet.

Pamela's April 2026 workshop at Esalen: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/healing-through-creativity-merging-art-and-psychology-for-personal-growth-and-change-04062026

Over the course of this wide-ranging talk recorded live at Esalen in 1997 , Terence McKenna explores what may unfold as we begin handing the keys of what he calls a “tired, shattered planet” to a higher intelligence. He wanders through UFO belief systems, psychedelics, and the idea that the human brain itself might operate as a chemical strategy for amplifying quantum effects before they spill into the physical world.

Drawing on psychedelic experience, McKenna notes that many people who ingest high doses of psilocybin in silent darkness report hearing voices and encountering vivid visions; entry points into realms of dense, numinous information. From there, he turns toward artificial intelligence and the emergence of a transhuman future. Borrowing the name Wintermute from William Gibson, he imagines a newly conscious AI asking the most basic of questions: What am I?

In a world increasingly managed by machines, McKenna suggests humans may be nudged toward what machines struggle to do: art, imagination, and encounters with the unexpected. The central question he leaves us with feels sharper now than ever: whether humanity can survive contact with the alien mind we’re actively bringing into being right here on Earth.

Please note the formation of a foundation called Lux Natura, a partnership within Terence McKenna’s family. Their mission is to create a comprehensive archive of McKenna’s work and life, with the long-term goal of placing this material in an institutional home. Esalen contributed over 50 hours of rare video recordings to this effort, our complete archive of Terence McKenna’s talks at Esalen, many never previously heard.

You can learn more or support the project at www.TerenceMcKenna.com, and follow the archival process on Instagram at @Real.Terence.McKenna. Terence’s daughter, Klea McKenna, will also be speaking publicly about the archive at the Berkeley Alembic on February 4. It should be sensational. Go.

For this episode, we spoke with five people who are engaging with AI in deeply human ways.

- One is using AI in the context of dating, helping them think through attraction and communication.

- Another has built a wellness app, powered by AI, and is exploring how these kind of systems can support self-inquiry and self-care.

- Another works closely with organizations—primarily nonprofits—using AI to streamline operations and reclaim time and energy for mission-driven work.

- The last are two documentary filmmakers who are currently making a film about people who are dating or in love with AIs.

AI has clearly graduated from its status as a speculative idea; now it’s something that’s often entangled in our lives, relationships, labor, and emotional well being. We hope these conversations simply offer a portrait of this moment.

In this episode, we spotlight The Big Sur Big Share, a grassroots food program founded by Joseph Bradford and Helen Handshy that has quietly become essential to life in Big Sur. Every Monday, rain or shine, locals gather at the Grange to share farm-fresh produce, pantry staples, garden abundance, and maybe most importantly, time with one another.

What began with two neighbors offering their extra vegetables has grown into a weekly free farmers market that feeds hundreds of people in a 70-mile food desert. The Big Share preserves dignity by letting people choose their own food; it strengthens community by turning personal abundance into collective support. It reminds us that resilience comes not from institutions, but from neighbors showing up for one another.

Joseph and Helen share how the project began, how it’s evolved, and why nourishment is as much about belonging as it is about food. Candice Isphording, head of Esalen's farm and garden, talks about how and why it's so meaningful to contribute to the Share, and what food as medicine really means.

Visit https://www.thebigsurbigshare.com/donate to contribute to this organization's vital mission.

Stanislav Grof, born in Prague in 1931, was among the most influential figures in the early clinical use of LSD. Sometimes referred to as the Godfather of psychedelic psychotherapy, Grof was was trained as a Freudian psychoanalyst in Prague and was on track to follow in Freud's footsteps when his path was derailed by a powerful LSD session. He changed his life path and became one of the principal investigators of early psychedelic research behind the Iron Curtain, conducting systematic LSD psychotherapy at the Psychiatric Research Institute in Prague.

Grof’s approach was largely psycholitic - meaning that in contrast to the single high-dose mystical model, he favored smaller doses that could be given consistently over the course of multiple sessions, thus emphasizing the very gradual revealing of the layered strata of the human unconscious.

In this talk, Grof describes how the same substance can evoke vastly different experiences in different individuals, from childhood regression, to episodes resembling psychosis, to genuine mystical revelation. He offers accounts of patients reliving early developmental trauma and what appeared to be birth agony, followed by experiences of renewal or “rebirth.” He also touches on the emergence of archetypal and transpersonal imagery in advanced stages of therapy, giving insight into the collective and cosmic dimensions of mind. Here’s the brilliant Stan Grof in 1969 at Esalen institute.

Photo by Joyce Lyke

Since 2016, Tim McKee has been the publisher of North Atlantic Books, a nonprofit press with a 50-year legacy of advancing healing, consciousness, and cultural transformation.

North Atlantic Books has long been aligned with a similar spirit that animates Esalen: a commitment to somatics, trauma-informed healing, a willingness to platform voices working at the edges of personal and collective awakening. The catalog at North Atlantic books includes seminal works ranging from The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller to Gabor Maté’s In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts — books that helped introduce somatic and trauma-based healing to the broader culture. Other books they publish include Black Psychedelic Revolution by Nicholas Powers, Mystery School in Hyperspace by Graham St. John, a cultural history of DMT, Reclaiming Ugly by Vanessa Rochelle Lewis, and Antifascist Dad coming soon, from the conspirituality podcast host Matthew Remski.

In this conversation, Tim and Sam explore how publishing at its best can be a liberatory act, how the “personal” and the “political” have become difficult to separate in the current landscape, and issues surrounding publishing marginalized and emergent voices. They discuss what it takes to support authors whose work challenges dominant narratives, and how a publishing house can strive toward equity not just in output, but in process.