At a moment when our country can feel deeply divided, and when progress on clean energy can feel uncertain, this month's guest — former U.S. Secretary of Energy and two-term Governor of Michigan, Jennifer Granholm — couldn’t be timelier.

It was the perfect moment to take stock of where we are as an industry. After years of historic progress, we’re now facing growing uncertainty about what comes next. The optimism that followed the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and the CHIPS and Science Act can feel harder to access — and yet gatherings like this live recording and New Dawn, our thousand-person sold-out annual party hosted the following evening, remind us how far we’ve come and how powerful it is when this community comes together.

Special thanks to this year’s New Dawn Terawatt sponsors, Silicon Valley Bank and Wilson Sonsini, for helping make gatherings like these possible.

For me, this interview was personal — and a bit of a full-circle moment. I’ve admired Governor Granholm for years. We first met over a decade ago, when she served as a judge for one of Powerhouse’s early hackathons, and even then, her conviction and optimism left a lasting impression.

Her legacy in public service is one of transformation — from rebuilding Michigan’s economy to reshaping the Department of Energy’s role in accelerating the clean energy transition. At DOE, Granholm led an unprecedented expansion of clean energy deployment and manufacturing, rebuilding supply chains, creating jobs, and helping position the United States as a global leader in the energy transition.

In a moment when federal leadership can feel disconnected from what our country truly needs for clean, abundant energy and lasting progress, Governor Granholm is a reminder of what grounded, forward-thinking, and empathetic leadership can achieve. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Ventures backs seed stage startups developing innovative software to advance clean energy, mobility, and industry. If you are thinking about building something in this space, get in touch with our team.

Powerhouse Innovation is a best in class consulting firm, powered by the strongest energy innovation network, data and team in our industry. We partner with world's leading corporations, investors, and utilities to source and evaluate disruptive startups shaping the future of energy and industry.

To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

As we’ve covered in other recent episodes, the growth of data centers and the massive amount of power they require is reshaping the energy landscape. Today, I want to zero in on a specific challenge at the heart of it all: the watt bit spread, a phrase coined by this month’s guest. 

The Watt Bit Spread is the gap between the cost of electricity and the value of computing—computing meaning, the processing power behind AI, cloud services, and digital infrastructure. Bridging that gap is one of the keys to unlocking both data center growth and new power generation.

Despite countless developers' promises of abundant “powered land,” very few can deliver what data centers and other energy-intensive industries actually need. It’s not just certainty of power timelines but also land, utility agreements, capital, and community support — all critical to reducing the constraints that make the watt bit spread so persistent. Too often, there’s a disconnect between real estate and utilities. Some companies know how to acquire land. Others know how to work with utilities. But rarely both. And even when those pieces come together, projects can still be stalled without community support, labor, or equipment. 

That’s where Brian Janous, Co-Founder and CCO of Cloverleaf Infrastructure, comes in—working to bridge the watt bit spread by aligning land, power, and communities to meet the surging demand for computing. Put simply, Cloverleaf buys land in dollars per acre and sells it in dollars per megawatt.

Sponsors

Watt It Takes is brought to you by HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations and take them to the world. Infinium are a leader in ultra-low carbon synthetic eFuels and offer comprehensive energy system solutions to support the rapidly evolving energy industry. HSBC Innovation Banking have supported Infinium with project financing to scale their latest commercial-scale project, which on completion will be the largest eFuels project in the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to FOAK, click the link in the call notes to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

HSBC Innovation Banking is a business division with services provided in the United States by HSBC Bank USA, N.A.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

The U.S. power sector serves more than 160 million electricity customers—across homes, businesses, and factories in all 50 states. But the grid that supplies that electricity wasn’t designed for the world we live in now, let alone the one that’s coming.

Electrification is accelerating. Data centers—driven by the explosive growth of AI—are demanding more power than ever, often in places where the grid is already strained. And while decarbonization remains technically optional—for those serious about resilience, sustainability, and long term viability, it’s a necessity. These three forces—electrification, digitization, and decarbonization—are colliding, reshaping how our energy system works and who it’s built for.

The challenge isn’t just technical. It’s structural. We are moving towards a world of abundant clean electricity—but too often, it’s available at the wrong time, or in the wrong place. Permitting and interconnection can add years of delays. And even when approved, major transmission projects often take decades to complete, if they manage to get built at all. And many of the rules that govern our electricity markets weren’t built for flexibility, speed, or innovation.

So what if we didn’t wait for the system to catch up? What if we reimagined where clean power is built, who it serves, and how it’s delivered? What if gigawatt-scale clean energy projects were already breaking ground—designed to power data centers, industrial loads, and the digital infrastructure reshaping our world?

That’s exactly what Sheldon Kimber, Co‑Founder and CEO of Intersect Power, is doing: imagining a better energy future, and then building it—faster than anyone thought possible.

Sponsors

Watt It Takes is brought to you by HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations and take them to the world. Infinium are a leader in ultra-low carbon synthetic eFuels and offer comprehensive energy system solutions to support the rapidly evolving energy industry. HSBC Innovation Banking have supported Infinium with project financing to scale their latest commercial-scale project, which on completion will be the largest eFuels project in the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to FOAK, click the link in the call notes to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

HSBC Innovation Banking is a business division with services provided in the United States by HSBC Bank USA, N.A.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

If cement were a country, it would be the third-largest emitter of carbon dioxide in the world, behind only China and the United States. That’s because cement production alone accounts for about five and a half percent of total global greenhouse gas emissions. And while that might seem really high, it actually makes sense. Just look around you: from roads to bridges, sidewalks to buildings, cement is everywhere. It’s a critical building block of modern infrastructure.

What’s striking about cement production is that most of the emissions actually come from the chemical reaction itself—not just from burning fuel to heat the kiln. Cement producers use limestone, a well-known carbon-storing rock we’ve highlighted in other episodes for its direct air capture potential. But when limestone is heated to make cement, the opposite happens: it releases carbon dioxide, accounting for about 60% of the sector’s total emissions. So even if you used 100% clean electricity to power the kilns, most of the emissions would still result from this chemical process.

Limestone was originally selected as a main ingredient for cement largely because it was the cheapest option. But what if it wasn’t? What if there were other rocks we could use that didn’t emit greenhouse gases at all? Better yet, what if they could produce the ingredients for cement cleanly—and generate other products critical to industry?

That’s exactly what Cody Finke, CEO and Co-Founder of Brimstone, is aiming to deliver: a way to make cement without the emissions—and create other essential industrial materials along the way.

Sponsors

Watt It Takes is brought to you by HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations and take them to the world. Infinium are a leader in ultra-low carbon synthetic eFuels and offer comprehensive energy system solutions to support the rapidly evolving energy industry. HSBC Innovation Banking have supported Infinium with project financing to scale their latest commercial-scale project, which on completion will be the largest eFuels project in the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to FOAK, click the link in the call notes to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

HSBC Innovation Banking is a business division with services provided in the United States by HSBC Bank USA, N.A.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

It’s been a few years since we last covered geothermal on Watt It Takes. Our 2021 episode with Tim Latimer, Founder and CEO of Fervo Energy, explored how next-generation geothermal was just beginning to emerge. Since then, the sector’s momentum has only grown.

Meanwhile, electricity demand is rising fast, driven by data centers, AI, and the broader push to electrify everything. That’s putting pressure on the grid and renewing interest in consistent, around-the-clock power, often referred to as baseload energy.

This is where next-gen geothermal comes in. It’s a new wave of technologies that could make it possible to harness the Earth’s heat in far more places. Instead of relying on rare natural conditions, these systems aim to tap into hot, dry rock deep underground—resources that could, in theory, be accessed across much of the country. And that’s what makes it so compelling: for the first time, we may be able to use this vast, untapped heat source almost anywhere to help power the grid.

Just last week, the U.S. Geological Survey reported that enhanced geothermal systems, one of the most promising next-gen approaches, could technically supply up to 10% of the country’s electricity needs from Nevada’s Great Basin alone.

Because some of these systems can also tap into existing oil and gas wells, geothermal is gaining support across the energy sector. It offers a way to reuse infrastructure, support local economies, and deliver reliable, affordable, and clean power. Other approaches show promise for energy storage and district heating, broadening geothermal’s role and offering new ways to complement renewables like wind and solar.

That broad potential has helped earn steady bipartisan support. But the recently passed House reconciliation bill threatens to slow momentum by phasing out key tax credits and eliminating credit transferability. These provisions have been critical to financing new projects.

Despite those headwinds, companies are continuing to push the boundaries of what geothermal can do. One of them is Sage Geosystems, led by CEO Cindy Taff. The company is advancing new applications of geothermal for energy storage, district heating, and dependable, clean electricity.

Sponsors

This live recording, and this next season of Watt It Takes, is brought to you by our lead sponsor, HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations, and take them to the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to First-of-a-Kind, click the link in the show notes to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

You don’t meet many people like Jigar Shah.

He’s one of the rare leaders who has shaped the clean energy transition from every angle — as a founder, as an investor, and most recently, as a government leader. 

If you know Jigar, you already know the headlines: He founded SunEdison, led Richard Branson’s Carbon War Room, co-hosted the Energy Gang podcast, co-founded Generate Capital, and most recently, ran the Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office, better known as LPO. 

If you don’t know Jigar, but you’re listening to this, chances are you’ve felt his impact. In 2024, Time Magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world.

And fun fact, he’s also the very first guest to return to Watt It Takes for a second episode.

For more than two decades, Jigar has been behind the scenes — and sometimes out front — helping scale the technologies and financing models that define today’s energy economy. 

But this episode isn’t about Jigar’s résumé; it’s about what it was like for him to join and lead LPO, what he learned in his four years in government, and what he’s carrying forward in this next chapter of his career. 

Sponsors

This season of Watt It Takes is brought to you by our lead sponsor, HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations, and take them to the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to FOAK, follow the link below to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

There are a handful of people in the clean energy and infrastructure world whose knowledge and voices serve as guiding lights. Shayle Kann is one of those people. Known for his deep expertise, unique perspective, and distinct voice, Shayle has covered and shaped the energy transition for years.

While regular listeners will know, we typically feature startup founders. But Shayle’s long-standing influence—from GTM and The Interchange to EIP and Catalyst—made it a true pleasure to turn the mic around.

This episode, recorded in front of a live, sold-out audience at SF Climate Week, marked Shayle’s first time as our guest, though he's no stranger to the show. For the first few years of Watt It Takes, starting in 2017, when every episode was recorded in front of a live audience, Shayle would kick off each conversation by setting the industry context and introducing our guest.

In this episode, we trace Shayle’s journey, starting with his roots in Madison, Wisconsin, and share how his entrepreneurial spirit and compelling storytelling abilities have been instrumental in his rise as a leader.

On a personal note, I’ve known Shayle for nearly a decade. He has been a colleague and a friend, and I’m excited for him to tell his story.

Sponsors

This live recording, and this next season of Watt It Takes, is brought to you by our lead sponsor, HSBC Innovation Banking who is proud to bank some of the most exciting companies pioneering the technologies of tomorrow.

With specialist financing support, deep understanding of the challenges, and a global network across more than 50 markets, they help clients scale breakthrough innovations, and take them to the world.

So, if you’re looking for early-stage funding, or well on your way to FOAK, follow the link below to learn how HSBC Innovation Banking can help on the next stage of your journey.

https://www.business.us.hsbc.com/en/innovation-banking-powerhouse-innovation

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors, including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. 

To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

Here’s a thought experiment. You’re a seasoned clean energy developer. You’ve got a pipeline of projects. You’ve navigated permitting, secured financing, refined your technology stack. Everything’s lined up, and you’re ready to build. There’s just one problem: interconnection.

To connect your projects, you have to go through a complex study process run by your utility, or your Regional Transmission Organization (RTO), or your Independent System Operator (ISO). They need to evaluate how your project impacts the grid, what upgrades are required, and how the costs get assigned. It’s a system built for a different grid era, and today, the system is completely overwhelmed.

For both developers and transmission providers, the interconnection queue has become a major obstacle. Developers depend on timely approvals to move projects forward. Transmission providers, meanwhile, are inundated with requests while also trying to maintain grid reliability, plan for future capacity, and, in many regions, meet aggressive decarbonization goals. And they’re doing all of that with legacy software that was never built to handle this kind of volume or complexity.

If you’ve been in the energy world for a while, you know this bottleneck well. But if you’re new, here’s the scale of the challenge: around 2.5 terawatts of renewable energy projects alone are currently stuck in interconnection queues across the U.S. At the same time, electricity demand is surging, driven by data centers, AI, EVs, and industrial electrification. The average wait time for grid interconnection in the U.S. is 6 years. 

Speeding up the interconnection study process could remove one of the most significant barriers to getting clean energy and storage projects online. But that requires smarter, modern tools. Our guest today, David Bromberg, Co-Founder and CEO of Pearl Street Technologies, has built those tools, and is helping transmission providers and developers navigate the interconnection process with unprecedented speed. 

Sponsors:

Watt it Takes is brought to you by Powerhouse Innovation. Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors - including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions - with cutting-edge technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Are you seeking strategic startup partnership or investment opportunities? Get in touch to see how you can leverage Powerhouse Innovation’s expert team and vast network, including a database of over 13,000 startups, to help accelerate your innovation and investing goals. To learn more visit powerhouse.co.

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation partners with leading corporations and investors to help them find, partner with, invest in, and acquire the most innovative startups in climate. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. 

To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

As a new year unfolds, 2025 has already brought devastating natural disasters. From blizzards to wildfires, climate chaos is impacting our neighbors and communities in real time. My heart goes out to the people of Los Angeles for the profound losses they suffered last month, and for the difficult path of rebuilding that lies ahead. This devastation brings to mind a tragedy that struck even closer to home in 2018.

I remember driving through Oakland that year, watching ash fall from the sky as the Camp Fire ravaged Paradise, California. That fire, still the deadliest and most destructive in California’s history, was sparked by vegetation coming into contact with power lines-- a common risk that, coupled with dry conditions, strong winds, and human activity, can ignite a wildfire. That same year, at least 17 additional wildfires in California were triggered by power lines.

Across the country and around the world, utilities face ongoing challenges from vegetation. The diversity of trees and their unique characteristics make it difficult to forecast where or when they might encroach on power lines. Traditional monitoring solutions like trucks, helicopters, and even drones cannot effectively or cost efficiently analyze the nearly 7 million line-miles of transmission and distribution that cover the US alone. 

In response, Indra Den Bakker and Anniek Schouten founded Overstory in 2018 — a software company that partners with utilities to predict and prevent wildfires caused by vegetation encroachment. Powerhouse Ventures is proud to be an early investor in Overstory, joining the team in 2020 via their seed round. It's been inspiring to watch the company grow, even in the face of immense loss.

Overstory’s founding CEO Indra tragically passed away in October of last year after a devastating battle with cancer, but his vision lives on. In a world where climate risks are increasing, Overstory's work is more critical than ever. Today, Overstory’s CEO Fiona Spruill and her team are continuing to manifest Indra and Anniek’s vision to reduce wildfire risks and make our grid resilient. This episode is a tribute to Indra, Anniek, and all that they’ve built together.

Sponsors:

Watt it Takes is brought to you by Powerhouse Innovation. Powerhouse Innovation is a leading consulting firm connecting top-tier corporations and investors - including corporate innovation teams, CVCs, and pensions - with cutting-edge climate technologies and startups that meet their specific criteria for engagement. 

Are you seeking strategic startup partnership or investment opportunities? Get in touch to see how you can leverage Powerhouse's expert team and vast network, including a database of over 13,000 climate tech startups, to help accelerate your innovation and investing goals. To learn more visit powerhouse.co. 

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation partners with leading corporations and investors to help them find, partner with, invest in, and acquire the most innovative startups in climate. 

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. 

To hear more stories of founders building our energy abundant future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.

2024 was a landmark year for the energy transition. With record-setting investments in climate infrastructure, we saw the price of renewables out-compete just about every electricity source worldwide, we saw advancements in industrial decarbonization (which we’ve featured prominently on this show), and we saw a breakout year for next generation energy storage just to name a few. While momentum is definitely on our side, with the electrification of everything, our industry will face new hurdles in the coming years, including unprecedented demand for critical minerals.  

From solar panels, to batteries, to EVs, critical minerals are needed to advance the energy transition. Specifically: copper, lithium, nickel, and cobalt, to name a few. According to our guest today, the amount of newly discovered minerals needed to produce the anticipated number of EVs by midcentury will cost more than $10 trillion dollars. 

We’ve been extracting minerals for centuries, so you might assume we have it figured out. However, not only are there some serious ethical and environmental concerns, but mineral exploration has, in some ways, actually gotten worse, slower, and more expensive over time. What if there was a way to make critical mineral exploration drastically more efficient? Our guest today, Kurt House, Co-Founder and CEO of KoBold Metals wants to show the world how scientific computing can turn that idea into a reality.  

Sponsors

Watt It Takes is brought to you by Microsoft.

The $1 Billion Microsoft Climate Innovation Fund is investing in innovative technologies that have the potential for meaningful, measurable climate impact by 2030. To date, Microsoft has allocated more than $800M into a global portfolio of over 50 investments including sustainable solutions in energy, industrial, and natural systems. Visit https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/corporate-responsibility/ to learn more about Microsoft’s progress toward their impact commitments. 

About Powerhouse Innovation and Powerhouse Ventures 

Powerhouse Innovation provides consulting services to help the world’s leading corporations and investors partner with the most innovative startups in climate tech.

Powerhouse Ventures backs entrepreneurs building the digital infrastructure for rapid decarbonization. 

To hear more stories of founders building our climate positive future, hit the “subscribe” button and leave us a review.