Liz and Rebecca cover Chiles v. Salazar, the case before the Supreme Court seeking to strike down a Colorado law banning mental health professionals from practicing "conversion therapy" on children. They explain the details of the case and discuss the hypocrisy of a ruling striking down the ban. They also recount the October 7th oral arguments, where the majority of justices signaled support for a ruling that will nullify state laws in half the country protecting LGBTQ youth from these discredited harmful practices.

Background

• Oral argument transcript

• Tenth Circuit Opinion

• SCOTUSblog page

• Amicus briefs

• Americans United

• FFRF

• SCOTUSblog - "Does Colorado's "conversion therapy" ban violate free speech?"

• The Trevor Project - "Chiles v. Salazar: What you need to know about the U.S. Supreme Court case on conversion therapy"

• The American Psychiatric Association's position on conversion therapy

• The American Psychological Association's position on conversion therapy

• The American Medical Association's position on conversion therapy

• "LGBTQ Policy Spotlight: From Conversion "Therapy" Laws Protecting LGBTQ Youth"

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Rebecca and Liz break down the strong history of courts rejecting government attempts to display Ten Commandments in public schools. They explain the seminal 1980 case Stone v. Graham, the SCOTUS cases since then reinforcing that precedent, and the growing number of states passing blatantly unconstitutional laws that force public schools to display Ten Commandments.

Background

• "Louisiana May Require the Ten Commandments Be Posted in Classrooms"

Cases

• Stone v. Graham (1980)

• Van Orden v. Perry (2005)

• McCreary County v. ACLU (2005)

• Louisiana: Roake v. Brumley (2024)

• Complaint

• District Court Opinion

• Joint Statement

• 5th Circuit Opinion

• FFRF Case Page

• AU Case Page

• Arkansas: Stinson v. Fayetteville School District No. 1 (2025)

• Complaint

• District Court Opinion

• Joint Letter

• FFRF Case Page

• AU Case Page

• Texas: Rabbi Nathan v. Alamo Heights Independent School District (2025)

• Complaint

• Preliminary Injunction

• Joint Letter

• FFRF Case Page

• AU Case Page

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Rebecca and Liz commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Scopes Trial. They discuss the infamous "monkey" trial, and the history of teaching evolution in public schools. An "everything old is new again" episode, showing the impact of the Scopes trial throughout the last century and digging into the latest attempts by Christian Nationalists to inject religious teachings into science curriculum.

Background

• Original text of the Butler Act

• 2025 Scope Trial Centennial speakers' presentations - FFRF

• The Legacy of the Scopes Monkey Trial 100 years later - Americans United

• The Scopes "Monkey" Trial with Brenda Wineapple - Freethought Matters

Cases

• State of Tennessee v. John T. Scopes (1925)

• Edwards v. Aguillard (1987)

• Kitzmil­ler v. Dover Area School District (2004)

• Epperson v. Arkansas (1968)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Rebecca and Liz explore health care sharing ministries (HCSMs) with guest, Sarah Levin. Sarah guides us through this religious billion dollar industry. We discuss what HCSMs are and what they are not, and why we need to push for them to have transparency.

Background and Resources

• Bio for Sarah Levin

• Sarah's email: [email protected]

• Secular Strategies

• Secular Coalition for America

• Center for Freethought Equality, HCSMs toolkit

• Secular Strategies HCMS Slides

• Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - "Health Care Sharing Ministries"

• The Actuary Magazine - "Health Care Sharing Ministries"

• Southern Poverty Law Center - "ADF supports donor, trade group for controversial health care sharing industry"

• Samaritan Ministries - "Guidelines for Health Care Sharing"

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Liz and Rebecca explain the final three Supreme Court rulings with huge stakes for true religious freedom. They discuss the Court's continued zeal for religious favoritism in the Catholic Charities, Mahmoud, and Skrmetti rulings—further expanding exemptions from the law for religious employers, giving ultra-conservative religious parents veto power over public school curriculum, and upholding state bans gender-affirming care for minors with gender dysphoria.

Cases

• Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (2025)

• SCOTUSblog

• Opinion

• AU Blog - "The Catholic Charities SCOTUS case: Some relief and a word of caution"

• Previous episode: High Unholy Season: Catholic Charities Bureau vs. Working Americans

• Mahmoud v. Taylor (2025)

• SCOTUSblog

• Opinion

• AU Blog - "Mahmoud v. Taylor: What representation would have meant to me"

• Previous episode: High Unholy Season Continues: Mahmoud v. Taylor

• United States v. Skrmetti (2025)

• SCOTUSblog

• Opinion

• Previous episode: Skrmetti v. U.S.

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

The third in the "unholy trinity" of religion clause cases from the current SCOTUS term. Liz and Rebecca discuss the case that sought to create the nation's first Catholic public charter school and the surprisingly early decision issued by a divided Court. They explain how this case came to be, what the oral arguments revealed, and the high stakes of the case for our public school system.

Background

• Opinion

• SCOTUSblog

• FFRF, AU, and ACLU amicus brief

• SCOTUSblog: "Supreme Court divided over approving first religious charter school"

• NPR - "Supreme Court blocks creation of religious charter school in Oklahoma"

• SCOTUSblog - "Split Supreme Court blocks first religious charter school in Oklahoma"

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Liz and Rebecca continue the SCOTUS religion cases coverage with Mahmoud v. Taylor, a case that threatens to force public school districts to bend to the will of their most conservative religious parents. They discuss how the case came to be, what the oral arguments told us, and why this case actually is about book banning and censorship.

Background

• SCOTUSblog

• Amicus briefs

• AU

• FFRF

• SCOTUSblog: "Supreme Court considers parents' efforts to exempt children from books with LGBTQ themes"

• Vox: "The Supreme Court threatens to bring 'Don't Say Gay' to every classroom in America"

Cases Discussed

• FFRF v. The County of Lehigh (2016)

• Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972)

• Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2018)

Upcoming Case

• Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board v. Drummond

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Liz and Rebecca break down the latest Supreme Court case, Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission. They explain how the case seeks to expand religious tax exemptions yet again, while threatening the unemployment benefits of thousands of workers. They share their analysis of the oral arguments and predictions on how the Court's decision will affect workers.

Background

• Oral Argument

• SCOTUSblog

• Amicus briefs

• Americans United

• FFRF

• Liz on the podcast "One Nation, Indivisible"

• Vox: "The Supreme Court's new religion case could devastate American workers"

Upcoming Cases

• Mahmoud v. Taylor

• Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board v. Drummond

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Rebecca and Liz welcome Americans United Associate Vice President of Public Policy Dena Sher to the show to discuss President Trump's spate of executive orders. Dena reminds us what executive orders are and we break down the ones that affect religious liberty and the separation of church and state.

Background

• Dena Sher, Associate Vice President of Public Policy at Americans United

• How to take action

• FFRF action alerts

• AU action alerts

Executive Orders

• EO establishing the White House Faith Office

• EO creating a task force to eradicate anti-Christian bias

• EO banning the use of federal funds to support gender ideology and discriminatory equity theories

• EO expanding vouchers and school choice programs

• EO defining gender as male and female

• EO restricting transgender people from participating in sports

• EO restricting gender affirming care

Other Legislation Discussed

• Educational Choice for Children Act

• Do No Harm Act

• Louisiana law that would require Ten Commandments in classrooms

• FFRF case page

• AU case page

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Liz and Rebecca take a break from the regular schedule to answer listener questions. They talk about how the founders viewed state/church separation, the issues our movement should focus on, and how to engage women in the cause of secularism.

Resources

• AU's Project 2025 Hub

• Abortion resources

• aidaccess.org

• plancpills.org

• How to Contact Your Elected Officials

• FFRF

• Join FFRF

• Donate to FFRF

• Sign up for action alerts

• Americans United

• Join AU

• Donate to AU

• Sign up for action alerts

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.