We welcome back Valery Perry from the Democratization Policy Council in Europe. Perry joins us to discuss what American action in Venezuela could mean. The Trump administration has said that it will act as a superpower, and it will assert American power without apology, particularly in our hemisphere. Perry has thoughts on what comes next — if the world is divided into spheres of influence. She argues that Europe needs to be prepared to create its own alliances without the United States. We discuss the various options our allies have, and we explore how we got to the idea that a world governed by a rules-based order ever made sense. Our guest:

• Valery Perry, Ph.D., senior associate for the Democratization Policy Council in Sarajevo

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