What's the value?

What's the value?

By Terry McMullenSociety & CulturePhilosophy
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What's the value? episodes

  • "Correcting misinformation about police" - Brian Mckenna
    Brian is a retired police lieutenant with 33 years experience, a long-time police trainer, and an author with a passion for "defending police officers against dangerous false narratives being perpetrated against them." These are the conversations that I get most excited and nervous about. This topic is so important and so emotionally charged, that I feel a burden to do it justice. My whole intent of this show is to try to learn from each other and maybe find ways to solve problems like racism, police brutality, and violence against police. As I listened back to this conversation with Brian there were times I was proud that we lived up to that aim, then there were a few times where I thought I pushed back against his views too much, and then there were other times where I thought I didn't push nearly enough. That is what makes these conversations so hard. 
    Overall though, I was really grateful that Brian came on the show to talk about his value of "correcting misinformation about police." I started the show by trying to get a baseline on Brian's views, how he thought, and his beliefs on racism in policing today. I thought Brian was reasonable and genuine in explaining his points. And listen, to state the obvious: Brian is clearly pro-police given his background and therefore is very sensitive to the potential risks they face. At the same time though, it was apparent that he was trying to be open to acknowledging some of the issues with police today and that he may have his own biases and blind spots. 
    One of the big themes of the show was the realization that some seemingly contradictory things were likely both true and our failure to acknowledge that leads to many issues. For example, it is possible that some police are heroic and deserve our praise for putting their lives on the line to protect us, but it is also true that some police are racist and deserve to be held accountable (and sometimes the same person falls into both). Or, it is true that some police officers would never deliberately go out to hunt down black men and terrorize them, but it is also true that those same police officers could be acting on some subconscious bias that leads them to judge black men differently than white men and ultimately results in their harm/death. Brian and I discussed all of these things in a good faith effort to try to be better. 
    I understand that at the same time we have the luxury of having this conversation to try to get better, there are still people being killed, so the urgency is super high. That is why there is so much pressure to get these conversations right. But we can't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Hopefully we all continue to learn, grow, and love each other.
    1 hr 23 min
  • "Speaking your truth" - Michelle Henderson
    Michelle is an author, speaker, psychic medium, and teacher and whose goal is to guide others through their spiritual growth. With the knowledge she obtained through her life-long work with children, she became passionate about helping intuitive children embrace their gifts, most notably with her new book, Spiritual Nurturing for Intuitive Children: Training Parents to Enhance Their Psychic Child's Abilities. I really appreciate Michelle coming on the show, especially knowing that I ask a lot of questions and probe/challenge so much. I say that because I can imagine psychic mediums get a lot of skepticism and challenging of what they do on a regular basis. So I appreciate her letting me ask some of the questions I've always had about the field and her being so open and willing to discuss her experience.
    As you might imagine we spent a bit of time understanding what exactly it meant to be a psychic medium. I got to ask some of the questions many of us likely have like, how do they actually speak to you, what was it like when you first realized you had this ability, how was it telling your friends/family, etc.? We also talked about where science and religion fit into the picture; and if being a medium is in conflict with both of those things? What's interesting is, you can sub out "psychic medium" and replace it with so many other life styles of people I've spoken with and the root concepts are the same. It ties back to Michelle's value of "speaking your truth." It can be at differing levels for sure, but ultimately all of us struggle with trying to figure out who we are and how we can live in the world as our authentic selves. 
    One of the more interesting parts of the discussion was when we talked about Michelle's own skepticism of her abilities. She noted that she never really questioned it at all because it always felt so real and authentic to her. My immediate reaction is to see that as a bad thing, because we always have to question otherwise we can't trust we are being honest with ourselves. However, Michelle's response and her value (speaking your truth) get to the core of what can make it so difficult to be authentic. If you challenge yourself too much and let doubt seep in, it can feel impossible to ever really speak your truth. Sometimes taking that leap of faith to embrace who you are, regardless of what the logic or those around you say is the best way to live. I still struggle with that concept a bit, but as I talk to more people like Michelle I do truly see the value of it.
    49 min
  • "Getting baby boomers more involved with their grandkids" - Gramps Jeffrey
    Gramps Jeffrey has 4 kids and 6 grandchildren and believes baby boomers have a unique role to play in raising their grand kids. To deliver on this, he wrote a children's book, “I Don’t Want to Turn 3”,  to explore the interaction that is happening between families in just about every household in the world.  I found this conversation really intriguing as I tried to better understand Gramp's value. On some levels it made perfect sense: wanting to leverage the knowledge from prior generations, the importance of grandparents instilling knowledge in kids, the value of reading to kids, etc.. However, I wanted to understand what was really underneath this. Why was it that baby boomers as grand parents, in particular, were so important in this role? 
    I think even Gramps struggled a bit at times to articulate why this value was so important to him, but it was rooted in trying to help improve the world. As we dug more into the conversation we started to uncover some interesting insights though that I think explained it. It seemed like there was some regret that Gramps had, where some in his generation (and prior generations) didn't value family enough. It wasn't that they didn't love their family, but the focus was so rigid on working and providing for your family, that it often resulted in missing out on the little moments that can be so important (e.g., soccer games, dance recitals, etc.). Gramps went even further to explain there was some guilt as well from his generation. He realized there were some mistakes made in how they approached the world and might have contributed to some of the divisiveness we have today and he felt an obligation to try and fix that. 
    As Gramps said it, once he retired, he started to think more about his legacy and reflected on what he had done to make the world a better place. His belief is that the current generation of kids (through age 10) have a unique opportunity to be the greatest generation ever, given all the technology and knowledge at their finger tips. So Gramps wants to do his part to teach them about the mistakes his generation made, so kids can be better prepared to avoid them and live up to their potential--and maybe finally fix the deep social problems we have in the world. It is an ambitious goal and as we discussed there are some risks (e.g., are baby boomers really best suited to teach the younger generation, can these lessons even be taught or do they have to be experienced, etc.). But overall I admire that Gramps saw a problem and is doing his part to try and address it, while also making the most of the time he has with this family.
    47 min
  • "Transparency" - Keith Belvin
    Keith is a certified Crisis Specialist, marriage counselor, award-winning author, and educator who listens and helps address emotional problems through Person-Centered Counseling. This conversation was packed with so many interesting insights, philosophical debates, and reflections on human nature, that it is hard to sum them all up. Keith is someone who clearly has spent a lot of time trying to understand people and the world we live in better. Interestingly, his earlier life was spent in a much more selfish way. He was a misogynist and womanizer, whose main goal was to make himself happy. But thanks to his own hard work, his value of "transparency", and some good foundations set by his mother and grandmother, he radically transformed his life.
    Some of the really intriguing concepts that came up in this discussion were centered around Keith's view that there is a battle between good and evil in the world; and those on the "good" side have a responsibility to step up and make the world a better place. For those who have listened before, you may know that I tend to believe people are all generally good but our minds lead astray to do bad things. So Keith and I explored that concept to try and understand why some people would "choose" to do harm. We also tried to understand how you would know if you were on the "good" side. As I mentioned, it was a packed episode, so we also touched on race, politics, and some other relevant issues. 
    Towards the end of the discussion, Keith made a really interesting point about outcomes. There are so many factors at play and the world is so complex that it can feel overwhelming. Sometimes it is easy to get lost in it all and lose your purpose. Keith's point was that you should focus on the outcomes as your guide to tell you if you are being honest with yourself and on the right track. I found this really interesting. If you apply it to our politicians, as an example, many of them feel like they are doing the good work to help the country. Yet we sit here today, seemingly as divided and contentious as ever. If they look at the outcome, of where the country actually is, they would be really hard pressed to convince themselves that they don't need to be better (rather than just pointing the finger at the other side). A big thanks to Keith for spending time talking with me and sharing so much of his perspective and knowledge.
    1 hr 19 min
  • "Hard to say, but maybe curiosity" - John Follis
    John's documentary "Leaving God", explores a shift that appears to be happening in America away from God and religion (recent Pew Research reports about 30% of Americans are now religiously unaffiliated). In John's film he explores this trend through the eyes of his own personal journey with God. John grew up Catholic in the 60's, a time when questioning the church was not something you did. Throughout his life he grappled with the question of if God was real, if church was beneficial, and at one point was even an award-winning adman/agency owner who actually helped to sell God.
    It was really interesting to hear more about John's background and personal story with the church. He explained that he was raised with a relatively strict Catholic upbringing, but from a very early age his curiosity pushed him to question what the church was actually saying and why. It might be easy, given the title of his documentary, to assume that John has some personal grudge against God/religion and is just trying to convince people to see things his way. However, from the conversation and his film you will see it is much more complex than that. John appreciates how significant God is in so many people's lives, so he wanted to share his experience to others can make a more informed decision. 
    As I often do, I played "devil's advocate" (no pun intended) and we actually spent a bit of time exploring if the religious believers are really that different from John and others that choose science or a more secular approach to life. We questioned if "curiosity", the value that seemed very important to John (and myself), was being applied consistently in our assessment of religion and science. We also explored the the "morality" of advertising, trying to understand if there is something inherently bad whenever we try and convince/influence someone to believe something. John and I didn't always agree, as you will hear in the episode, but it is always super insightful to debate topics like this with someone willing to explore their view points at a deeper level. 
    Here is the link to his documentary if you want to check it out- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5x1X4eBBB4&list=PLLrP-KpjctO0J7yly7yqsKYs-CRAwcx9M
    1 hr 2 min
  • "Optimism" - Jeevan Matharu
    Sometimes I just love having an all out philosophical conversation where we explore the seemingly unanswerable questions of the universe to see what we can learn. My conversation with Jeevan was very much that. He started off the conversation by saying "optimism" is the key value to hold because it can act as a protective bubble against the hardships of the world and give you the best chance to achieve happiness. So we dove right in and started exploring that idea and if it was true, if there are downsides to optimism, if optimism is just a luxury for some people and not others, etc. Before we finished we ended up talking about the recent Joe Rogan controversy, we pressure tested some Jordan Peterson beliefs, and tried to understand if there are overall objective rules to trying to "win" at the game of life.
    As way of a brief background, Jeevan is an author and transformational coach, who likes to learn and think about philosophical questions. He made for a really good "dance partner" for this conversation because he had clearly thought through the value of optimism and his approach to life, so it was fun to pressure test it all. One of the more interesting threads we hit on was the idea that ultimately society acts as a market system. By this we meant that there is not necessarily an objective "right or wrong" but rather the markets (i.e., society) tells us what is OK and what isn't. That has some interesting implications though-- is the market always fair/right, what happens if you disagree with the market decision, etc.?
    If you really enjoy these types of discussions than this episode is for you. I know it can be frustrating that there are not clear answers, but I firmly believe we have to think about these questions to improve as a society. Big thanks to Jeevan for being on and for a really fun conversation.
    52 min
  • "Obtaining True Wealth" - Zachary Juergensen
    Zach is the host of DIY Wealth, a podcasting platform focused on helping people merge financial freedom with a life well lived. He wants to use his experiences to help others engineer a life where they can have enough money to do the things they care about. That seems so simple and so obvious. That is what we should all be working towards, living a life that actually makes us happy. Yet somehow most of society is on another track. We spend so much of our time chasing money as a means to happiness, rather than just doing the things we enjoy. I find that concept fascinating. How is it we could have seemingly gotten things so twisted? 
    In this conversation we explored the philosophical and sociological reasons why this might be the case. Is capitalism ultimately to blame? Is it just human nature that we always want more and it was inevitable that we would end up here? Part of the reason seems to be that many of us just don't experience life enough to make a good decision. We get caught up in the grind of life and forget that doing things we love right now is even an option. That is a scary thought when you really think about it. So Zach has chosen to spend his time trying to help people unplug from that grind and obtain true wealth. That means wealth in terms joy, love, happiness, health, etc., not just money.
    As we hear with many of the guests on the show, this drive to help others comes from a form of empathy. Zach has been broke and he has also worked his ass off to make 7 figures, but in both cases he was still unhappy with life. He knows what that dissatisfaction feels like and how helpless it can be, so he feels compelled to help others. Understanding this perspective on Zach helped me to appreciate him as much more than just another financial advisor. Sure he does give people financial tools and tips, but the value Zach is trying to create is much deeper and more meaningful. Like so many of us, he wants to do his part to help change the world for the better and he believes this is the best way he can do that.
    48 min
  • "Inclusivity and Authenticity" - Janine Hamner Holman

    Janine is an internationally recognized speaker, author, and expert on DE&I, conscious leadership, organizational development, psychological safety in the workplace, emotional intelligence, neurobiology, and what it takes to attract and retain world-class talent. She has had a life time of experience trying to fight the battle for equity and inclusion, starting as a community activist in Brooklyn to today and the work she does with her own consulting organization. She believes allowing people to feel included and their authentic selves is not only the right thing to do, but it benefits all of society. 

    What I liked about this conversation was that we didn't just focus on the altruistic aspects of diversity and inclusion, that most of us already know are important. We tried to make it real, we tried to really dig into the challenges of this work. This even included a discussion about a time in which Janine left her work at a non-profit organization to work at a Fortune 200 company, frankly because she had bills to pay. We explored that and if it proved her ultimate goal was too idealistic. We also debated if it was even possible to expect humanity at scale to actually do the hard work necessary to reach true equality. Is it possible that our own internal baggage, fears, and insecurities are too much overcome? 

    I always find it interesting to talk to people like Janine who feel so passion and driven to do this type of work. I have a deep curiosity about what is behind it and what makes them this way. Are they ultimately just virtue signaling and doing it because they think they are supposed to do it? Or are they more like Janine and from the earliest of ages felt a deep empathy to try and help those in need?  

    1 hr 1 min
  • "Learning from the past to move forward" - Dom Karmiche
    I have known Dom for 3 or 4 years, since we both started training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu together at about the same time. Even though I didn't know him that well, I noticed some things about him over the years; like he has a deep love for competing in jiu jitsu, a killer work ethic, and a tolerance for fear that most people don't have. He is the type of person who will take on any fight, any time; and when you watch him fight you can tell the moment never gets too big for him. So I was really interested to learn more about him and get to know what made him tick. 
    As Dom explained it, he didn't have the most stable childhood and that led to him getting pretty heavily involved with drugs and partying after high school. For a few years he was kind of lost and lacking motivation, but what I found really interesting, was that he always felt a deep sense of optimism that life would get better. The value he started the conversation with was "learning from the past to move forward", and that was something he always believed in. So even in the darkest of times, he always tried to maintain a good perspective. As with many people, everything changed for him when he found out he was going to be a dad, but what makes Dom unique is that he seemed to have the mental toughness to change his life almost instantly. As he put it, he has always been someone who struggled with motivation, but once he has it, all the bullshit ends and he gets to work. 
    That type of mindset was always fascinating to me because it sounds a little bit like a superpower (and in some ways maybe it is), but when you dig into it is really rooted in logic, self reflection, and optimism. We've heard some of those themes in past episodes as well. Dom is another testament to the power of combining logic with optimism. It doesn't guarantee you that everything will go exactly the way you want it and it doesn't make life magically easier. What allowed Dom to do though, is to go from being out of shape, doing drugs every day, and having no real meaning in life; to being a sponsored combat sports athlete, a dedicated dad, and someone who has a deep purpose/drive for life.
    49 min
  • "Growth and Well Being" - Nicole Parchani
    "It's like the universe was trying to understand itself, but in that process couldn't figure out what the hell was going on and that is why we are here." Statements like that are why I love philosophy and talking to people about the deep questions of life. This conversation was full of insights and discussions like that. Nicole was super interesting too because her background gave her so many unique perspectives. She grew up in Sint Maarten being raised with two different religions in her household, then moved to the US to study electrical engineering and now works in technology; but at the same time has deep philosophical thoughts and questions about life. 
    We started with her value of growth and well being, with Nicole believing the most important (if not the only thing) we can truly value is trying to grow, learn, and improve as people. That is what life is about, trying to live our best lives and make the most of our time here. In exploring and probing that concept we talked a lot about the meaning of life, if God exists, if the universe meaningless, if the world zero sum, and lots of other philosophical questions. Nicole had some really unique and insightful takes on all of it and she loved digging in and debating it too, which to me always makes for the most interesting conversations. 
    We ended with me sharing more of my skeptical/pessimistic view of the world; that because there are no clear answers and everything is subjective, there is very little chance we can ever come together and make the world a better place. Nicole fortunately had a more optimistic view, that if we follow the approach of science and constantly strive to learn more and be better each day (even if in small, incremental ways), there is hope that we can achieve much less human suffering. I hope she is right, but as we illustrated in this conversation, we may never know.
    56 min

About What's the value?

From the publisher's feed

I ask guests about the value of a strongly held belief, vision, or objective they have. This can be a business idea, a personal/spiritual belief, a political/social agenda, or a focus of their career.…