What's the value?

Adam is a personal trainer/weight loss "wizard", author of the book "How to Melt Body Fat Without Diets or Gyms", and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu coach (learn more here- https://www.instagram.com/thedietdestroyer). Maybe no surprise, but Adam's value was "personal development." He spoke in depth about his personal journey and how he got to a point where the focus of his life is about developing and improving and trying to help others to do the same. To be honest, I was interested in this conversation because there are so many "weight loss wizards" or trainers who are more gimmick than substance. I wanted to try to understand Adam better and see what made him believe he knew how to help people overcome a challenge that has plagued the world for centuries. I didn't care as much about the specific diet or weight loss steps, but more about the person he is and how he thinks.

In the process of getting to understand him, I learned how growing up with a single mom who modeled the importance of work ethic shaped him. But then he spoke about a time in his life where he tried 8 different jobs in 2 years, got fired, and lost his way; he lost those values of work ethic and personal growth. Getting to hear him talk about those times and what it really felt like, the underlying emotions and thoughts, and ultimately what brought him to where he is today was really insightful. Typically people don't want to acknowledge the miss steps or mistakes a long the way, but to me that is the most important part. That is especially true when they don't explain them in a superficial way that makes them sound heroic, but rather in an authentic way that shows they are human. That was what I loved about this conversation and I hope you all enjoy it as well.

Abigail is a Ghanaian, Seventh-day Adventist living in the Bronx, NY. As she says it, “give me great food, my family, and volunteer opportunity, and I am happy.” Abigail shared “faith” as her most important value and how the relationship she has with God drives her life and purpose. I didn’t know Abigail before this conversation, but she quickly became one of my favorite people. I realize that sounds like hyperbole or just something nice to say, but it is much deeper than that.

What made me such a fan, was not just her ability to articulate the reasons for her faith-- the emotions, the struggles, the joys, and ultimately how it  makes her who she is today—but also her willingness to explore it and allow me to question it. She wasn’t afraid or put off by the questions many of us have about faith, but can be afraid to ask--like: how can you be so sure God is real, how do you know this is the way God wants you to live, isn’t there too much ambiguity and too many assumptions to ever truly believe with absolute certainty? She was happy to give her views in a way that shows she’s actually grappled with those same questions herself.

I really hope you enjoy this conversation, whether you believe in God or not, as it gives us another chance to peek inside the head of someone and better understand something that means so much to them.

This episode was a really unique one for me in many ways. 

1. I have known Chris Powers for about 30 years and he is one of my oldest friends in the world. We went to junior high together and have been friends ever since. For that reason, the comfort level and trust we have, allowed us to have a conversation that is very difficult to have with someone you don't know that well. Part of that is because we know each other well enough to call bullshit (or possible bullshit) when we saw it, which makes the discussion more raw and authentic. Part of the reason is also because in most conversations there is a degree of mental energy that is allocated towards filtering my language to make sure the other person doesn't misinterpret or get offended by what I am saying. In this conversation I didn't have to do that and it allowed me to dedicate all of my mental efforts to following the logical thread, it allowed me to ask better questions and hopefully get to better insights. It was a valuable experience that I hope I can carry over into future conversations to make them even more authentic and impactful.

2. Chris and I spent 40 minutes having that really raw, authentic conversation about his value- legacy. By legacy he meant "winning." Winning he defined as being successful, having recognition, money, giving his kids a good life, etc. To his credit and what made the conversation great, was that he was honest about his need to "win." He explained why others might take issue with that or see it as a bad thing, but it still made sense for him. He also was open to me questioning and dissecting it to see if there were flaws in it. It was exactly the type of conversation I want to have on this podcast. Unfortunately I forgot to hit the record button. Believe me, it hurt like hell because I so badly wanted to be able to share the conversation we had. But we licked our wounds and decided we would have a new conversation about the conversation we just had. That is the point this podcast picks up. So apologies, it may feel like you are jumping into the middle of the discussion, but I think it works. You still get to hear his raw values/beliefs and our exploration of them. 

3. That leads to my 3rd and final reason this episode was unique for me. Maybe because I knew him so well, maybe because we had already had such a deep conversation already, or maybe because I just got too comfortable and confident-- I am not sure this podcast was my best work. As I listened back to it, I realized I cut him off too much, I talked too much (and at times probably cursed too much), I was too eager and over confident to point out his potential flaws and where I thought I had it right. Although it makes me cringe a bit to listen back to it, I still wanted to share it. It was still a really good conversation and highlights the reason I am doing this podcast. Also it was an extremely valuable lesson/reminder for me of the importance of checking myself. I want to be raw and authentic, but I can't do it at the sacrifice of listening and learning.

With that, I really appreciate you reading all of this (if you made it this far) and listening to this episode. I hope you really enjoy it.

As I continue to progress on this podcast journey, I find myself feeling so fortunate to be able to have these types of conversations with such interesting, unique, and amazing people. Sara Im was my latest guest and we had a beautiful conversation about family, hope, love, and the importance of keeping the right mindset to overcome the difficulties life throws at us. Sara led with "family" as her most important value, but a big part of that was rooted in the value of hope. For Sara the love and duty she felt for her family kept her motivated and hopeful that life will always get better.

This is especially impactful coming from her, since she was a survivor of the "Killing Fields" in Cambodia. Sara was held captive by the Khmer Rouge Communist regime for 4 years and endured harsh working conditions, working all day in rice fields under intense heat, with very little food or sleep, and at one point was sent to a death camp for the severely sick. Fortunately for her she was able to recover and escape but about 2 million people died of homicide, diseases & starvation during that period. Given that experience, it was absolutely amazing to get to deep dive into her values and approach to life. She was so gracious to answer my questions as I probed and explored how she tried to keep hope alive during that horrible time. 

We talked about the values that her family, her culture, and her belief in God instilled in her, which she believed allowed her to make it through. We also talked about the challenges in having those beliefs-- did she only value family so much because she was taught to do so, did she only believe in the power of hope because she was lucky enough to get out, and did she only trust in God because it was easier to do that than to face the reality of the world? Sara had really insightful responses to all of those questions and ultimately explained why no matter what, she always believes things will get better (even if they might not). I really hope you enjoy this episode and I thank you for taking the time to listen to it. 

If you want to learn more about Sara and her life, please visit her website at https://www.saraim.com

Firstly, apologies for the background noise at times on this one, Tamy-Fee had to do the recording from a public place. I had a sense the discussion would be a good one though, so I wanted to try and get it done. Hopefully it is not too bad. 

Tamy-Fee lead off with trust as her most important value and the conversation took some interesting, thought provoking turns from there. What we realized through the discussion was that there were two forms of "trust" at play, little "t" trust and big "T" Trust. For Tamy-Fee the most important thing is living in a world where you have big "T" Trust in the people you engage with. That means you can Trust that those people have done the work to better understand themselves, deal with their insecurities/fears/etc., and be able to rationally make decisions that come from a place of compassion and humanity. She made an important distinction too that this does not mean everyone has to agree and think the same; it simply means that when we disagree we can Trust that each of us are coming from a rational/humane place and can have a genuine conversation about why we disagree. We then explored this a bit with some real life examples, involving, parenting, race, and professional careers.

Although I very much like Tamy-Fee's view and the insights we discovered, I do still wonder about the practical implementation of it. As we know, in society today there is a lack of big "T" Trust across many different people and groups. We tried to understand why this might be and in doing so we inevitably run into the problem of "who gets to decide?" Who gets to decide if you've done the "work" effectively, who gets to decide if the approach you take is "humane", who gets to decide if there are certain underlying values that are universal and non-negotiable (and if so, what are they)? Tamy-Fee's hope is that if everyone genuinely does their best to build Trust in themselves and each other, it won't be perfect and we will still have issues, but overall we will be a lot better off.

Key is an entrepreneur, CEO, coach/consultant, and public speaker, so it wasn't surprising her underlying values were constantly striving to be the best version of yourself, giving value back to world, and helping others. What was interesting about this discussion, was the role that faith and God played into it. As we explored and pressure tested what it really means to be the best version of yourself, we identified some challenges. For example, if we all should have an inherent drive to help others, who gets to decide what the best way to "help" someone is? Or as another example, does the pressure and burden of the constant need to improve end up being "net negative" and make our lives worse off overall? That is where God came in for Key. God made us with flaws so if we accept those flaws, achieve a healthy level of humility, and trust in the path God has laid out that should protect us from the negative pieces of it all. That is where the "leap of faith" concept comes up again. In Key's world/value system it is a really beautiful, harmonious place, assuming the leap of faith pays off and God is behind the wheel. But if the leap of faith proves wrong, if humans are naturally inclined to look out for themselves above all else, then it can be seen as just idealistic and naïve. 

I am not sure which, if either of those, is the true reality, but Key has used her value system and her faith to make a decision on her path in life. She believes in helping others and constantly challenging yourself to do and give more to the world. It is interesting because the topic of happiness came up less in this conversation than most others, which I guess makes sense. It was more about doing your duty to the world/God vs. trying to optimize your personal happiness. In many ways choosing that as your approach to life is pretty admirable. It can make life harder, more of a struggle, and more full of angst; but the commitment to faith makes it one that you choose anyway.

Chris was a really cool guest to have on the show. I've known Chris for almost 3 years, almost entirely as someone who coaches me and trains with me in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ). Recently though I've gotten to know him much better and witness him make some significant life changes (quitting his job to focus on BJJ, starting his own business, competing against top level fighters, etc.). I also know him as a dad who cares a lot about his kids and is willing to do the extra, at times uncomfortable, work to try and do right by them. For those reasons I was really excited to learn more about his values and perspective on life. 

We had a really good conversation (with some minor technical difficulties- sorry for a couple of rough edits) where we explored his most important value- time (and specifically trying to optimize it). We talked about why trying to optimize our time can be so obviously good but also so hard to do. We also talked about how Chris thinks through making prioritization decisions, given the impacts it might have on him, his business, and his family. Overall, we talked about a lot of good philosophical perspectives on how to try and live a happy life. It was a really fun and insightful discussion for me and I hope you guys really enjoy it too.

It was my birthday recently and I decided I wanted to do the things I really enjoy and matter most to me. Two of things I enjoy and that matter most to me are spending time with my son and doing my podcast, so I decided to combine them. It may seem gimmicky, cheesy, or just a bad idea for a philosophy podcast to have my 8-year-old son, Kavian, on as a guest (and maybe it is), but I think there is some real value that came out of the conversation. My parents instilled in me the value of being thoughtful, asking questions, and thinking for myself and I try and do that with my son as well. I regularly engage him in these types of discussions because I want him to think about his thinking and his feelings in a deep, meaningful way. I am a strong believer that it is never too young for kids to start practicing that skill.

What I loved about this podcast was the value Kavian picked: imagination. When I do these shows, I try to give the listeners a raw, authentic view into how other people think and live their lives. To be able to do that with an 8-year-old is particularly special, because their minds are so pure, genuine, and open. To hear directly from a child, as they explain why imagination is so magical to them, is something I think we all need more of in our lives. We talked about his drive to have fun in life, why so many grownups seem to lose that drive as they get older, and why it is so hard, even as an 8-year-old sometimes, to balance between having fun and doing the “right” thing.

Listen, I am not going to lie to you and say everything he had to say was poetic or perfectly articulate (although at times I think he communicates better than I do), but by in large getting to peak inside his mind and get his authentic thoughts on life was really enjoyable and insightful for me. I truly believe all kids can benefit from having conversations like this as well, giving them a chance to be thoughtful, authentic, and logical as they try to make sense of their own thoughts/feelings and the world around them. I really hope you enjoy the show and thank you for listening.

Chace is a fellow Boston College grad who I've known for a long time, she is also a lawyer by training, a wife, and an executive at a major media company--among other things. She threw a bit of a curveball at me leading off with "fulfillment" as her most important value. We spent some time trying to better understand what that meant and how she tried to live in accordance with it. What I found interesting and very relatable, was that Chace seemed to be super driven to improve herself, learn more, experience more, and achieve more. But it wasn't rooted in religious faith or a sense of moral obligation to society; instead it was almost as if she was doing it to optimize her "score" in the game of life. Becoming a better person, experiencing more, helping others; these all felt like things that were objectively and authentically good and would optimize her score-- so of course it makes sense to do them. They also give her a better chance to make a unique impact on the world, which would provide the sense of deep fulfillment she values most of all. 

As I said I can relate to this very much, so naturally we pressure tested it as best we could. We explored the risks of potentially tying our happiness to achieving some external level of goodness or keeping score to to be the "best" at life. She explained how she tries to account for this and how important empathy is to mitigating the risks. I really hope you all enjoy the show and find some useful insights.

N.T. Narbutovskih (Nick) is a former military pilot, published author, and certified leadership coach. In his writing, especially in his newest book, Steel in the Blood (learn more about him and his work here- narbutov.com) he uses science fiction to explore philosophical questions and dilemmas-- which made him a really intriguing guest for the show. Nick started by highlighting his most important value as "respecting other humans and treating them like an end not as a means to something else." We explored this a ton from many different angles to understand what that really means, what are the pros/cons to this approach, and how does it play out in real life. 

As I think back, what I found super interesting and thought provoking about this discussion was that Nick's value seemed to be built on a belief that the optimal path to happiness as an individual is to do your part to ensure our society as a whole functions well. At times, this may mean de-prioritizing some of your own values to support other values that are more accepted by the society you live in. As you might imagine, we spent time discussing the dangers of this approach. Ultimately Nick thought, although it has risks, it is the better way to go-- with a caveat that deep self reflection and questioning are necessary to mitigate those risks.