We conclude our conversation with Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, authors of In Covid's Wake, exploring how political structures—not just bad actors—amplified the crisis. Plus, revisiting a 2021 Washington Post article that sided with YouTube's removal of a DeSantis-hosted panel questioning masking for young children. And in "The Spiel", a probe of what experts must do to recover lost public trust, especially when once-dismissed claims turn out to be plausible.

Produced by Corey Wara

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