On the Gist, exploring the complexities of the personal stakes of the Senators in the Trump Impeachment trial.

In the Interview, it's the second half of our conversation with Jonah Blank, an anthropologist, writer, author, and former policy director for South and Southeast Asia on the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Blank joins Mike to talk about the Myanmar coup, the default of cheering on populism, conflicts and communal violence, and the threat to democracy. Blank is author of Arrow of the Blue-Skinned God, and Mullahs on the Mainframe, and currently based in Singapore. He'll be back on the show next week.

In the spiel, picking apart Lindsey Graham.

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Podcast production by Margaret Kelley and Cheyna Roth.

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