Author of The Inheritors: An Intimate Portrait of South Africa's Racial Reckoning, Eve Fairbanks joins us again to talk about the fate of white liberals, who fought alongside black South Africans to up-end the status quo, in the post-Apartheid era. Also, an analysis of the arc of history and in which way it really bends. Plus, a guest Spiel from Eli Lake, contributing editor at Commentary Magazine and host of the podcast The Re-Education with Eli Lake.

Produced by Joel Patterson and Corey Wara

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