Description

In this episode of the Whiteness at Work podcast, Dr. Claire Stewart-Hall engages with Professor Denise Miller and Dr. Charmaine Brown to explore the concept of whiteness, its implications in educational settings, and experiences with racism. They discuss the mechanisms to dismantle whiteness, the role of research in advocating for change, and the psychosocial costs of racism faced by staff in educational institutions. The conversation emphasises the importance of awareness, community empowerment, and the need for meaningful research that impacts society beyond academia.

Dr. Claire Stewart-Hall and guests delve into the complexities of studying racism, allyship, and the psychosocial costs associated with these experiences. They discuss the importance of understanding the perspectives of both Black individuals and white allies in academia, the challenges of institutional racism, and the need for a shift in power dynamics to foster genuine change. The conversation highlights the ongoing struggle against institutional racism and the necessity of addressing whiteness in discussions about equity and inclusion.

Keywords

whiteness, racism, privilege, education, institutional racism, equity, diversity, research, community empowerment, activism, racism, allyship, psychosocial costs, institutional racism, whiteness, academia, diversity, equity, inclusion, research

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Whiteness and Its Impact

06:58 Personal Journeys with Whiteness

16:04 Mechanisms to Dismantle Whiteness

21:11 Research as a Tool for Change

32:55 Exploring the Psychosocial Costs of Racism

36:41 The Costs of Allyship and Racism

39:32 Exploring Psychosocial Costs of Racism

43:52 The Role of White Perspectives in Racism

48:59 Shifting the Narrative on Institutional Racism

51:51 Reflections on Change and Progress

01:00:34 Methodological Insights on Whiteness

01:08:08 Understanding Whiteness and Power Dynamics

We discuss the journal papers:

Miller, D., Brown, C. and Essex, R. (2023) ‘The psychosocial costs of racism to White staff members of an ethnically diverse, post-92 university’. London Review of Education, 21 (1), 39. DOI: https://doi.org/10.14324/LRE.21.1.39.

Miller, D., Essex, R. and Brown, C. (2025) ‘“I’m managed by a White man who’s managed by a White man who’s managed by a White woman who’s managed by a White man”: the problem of institutional racism in a UK-based university’. London Review of Education, 23 (1), 8. DOI: https://doi.org/10.14324/LRE.23.1.08.

We also reference the journal papers:

Exum, M.L. (2022).  ‘White students’ perceptions of the costs and consequences of being black’.  Race and Social Problems, : 1–17, Advance online publication. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s12552-022-09364-5

Miller, P. (2016).  ‘White sanction’, institutional, group and individual interaction in the promotion and progression of black and minority ethnic academics and teachers in England.  Power and Education 8 (3) : 205–21, DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1177/1757743816672880

Spanierman, L.B; Todd, N.R; Anderson, C.J. (2009).  ‘Psychosocial costs of racism to Whites: Understanding patterns among university students’.  Journal of Counseling Psychology 56 (2) : 239–52, DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/a0015432 [PubMed]

Find out more at: https://equitablecoaching.com/

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Penny Rabiger, researcher, facilitator, connector and anti-racist community resource who is the lead Coach on the Anti-Racist Schools Award at The Centre for Race, Education and Decoloniality Penny is an educationalist who studies structural racism in school contexts. We discuss jewishness, being racialised into whiteness as white people, dreams, school contexts and the formations of whiteness in society.

References

Alexander, C. (2009) Beyond Black, in Back, L. & Solomos, J. (Eds.). (2009). Theoriesof Race and Racism: A Reader (2nd ed.), pp 209 - 225. Abingdon: Routledge.https://doi.org/10.4324/9781003060802

Andrews, K. (2023) The Psychosis of Whiteness: Surviving the Insanity of a Racist World. London: Allen Lane.

https://www.class13.org/

Coard, B. (1971). "Making Black Children Subnormal in Britain." Equity and Excellence in Education, 9(5), 49-52

Cushing, I., & Snell, J. (2023). The (white) ears of Ofsted: A raciolinguistic perspective on the listening practices of the schools inspectorate. Language in society, 52(3), 363-386.

Grant, V. (2025) https://www.integritycoaching.co.uk/blog/building-a-compassionate-school-system/isolation-stress-tears-truth-school-leader/

Ignatiev, N., & Garvey, J. (eds.) (1996) Race Traitor. New York: Routledge.

Okun, T. White Supremacy Culture. Found Online

Lentin, A. (2025) The New Racial Regime: Recalibrations of White Supremacy is out in May 2025 with Pluto Press.

Salisbury, J. (2022). "How, still, is the Black Caribbean child made educationally subnormal in the English school system?" 

Consider this talk on 22 April 2025: https://events.manchester.ac.uk/event/event:g1z0-m8pxip9l-lbq2pr

Penny's website

Equitable Coaching's Monthly White accountability space booking link

In this episode Dr. Claire Stewart-Hall talks with Bernice Hewson, who is a coach, trainer and racial equity scholar. Bernice is the founder of Raising Racial Consciousness and writes and delivers programmes for practitioners and coaches, leaders and allies to deepen practice and challenge whiteness. We talk about whiteness in the institution, in coaching and in therapeutic spaces and the importance of inner race work for people practising in these fields.

References

Roche, C & Passmore, J. (2021) Racial Justice, Equityand Belonging in Coaching Henley Business School: UK

Find Bernice's Linked In profile here

If you would like to hear more about the work of social justice researcher, Stephen Francis, here are some links to his work and profile:

Article

LinkedIn

References

Stephen Francis referred to and some other reading that might help:

Farrell, F. (2021). White Man face, order words and deviance detectors: a Deleuzoguattarian analysis of fundamental British values. Prism: Casting New Light on Learning, Theory and Practice., 1-24. Advance online publication.  https://doi.org/10.24377/prism.ljmu.0302202

Hall, S. (2017).Familiar stranger: A life between two islands. Duke University Press.

hooks, b. (1997) Representing Whiteness in the Black Imagination. DisplacingWhiteness. Duke University Press. DOI: 10.1215/978082270-006

Hylton, K., & Hylton-Fraser, K. (2022). An evaluation of the “every child can learn, every child must learn” mantra’s alignment with educational policies inJamaica.Equity in Education & Society,27526461211066497

Jackson, M., Von Dohlen, H., & Black-Chen, M. (2024). Preparing school leaders for social justice: An analysis of educational leadership preparation programs in Jamaica.Equity in Education & Society. https://doi.org/10.1177/27526461241235937

Miller, K. (2013). A Smaller Sound, A Lesser Fury: A Eulogy for Dub Poetry. InWriting Down the Vision: Essays & Prophecies (pp. 79–90). Peepal Tree.

 Miller, K. (2021). Mr. Brown, Mrs White & Ms Black. InThings I Have Withheld,(pp. 18–42). Canongate Books Ltd.

 Sriprakash, A, Rudolph, S. and Gerrard, J. , (2022).Learning Whiteness: Education and the Settler Colonial State, London: Pluto Press, 2022.

In this episode Dr. Claire Stewart-Hall raises questions about why talking about whiteness is critical to its abolition and how it has affected her life and beliefs. She covers the why about whiteness - why study it? and what is the purpose?

Equitable Coaching can be contacted for services here

You can book into our monthly a white accountability space here.

References

Bonilla-Silva, E., Goar, C., & Embrick, D. G. (2006). When Whites Flock Together: The Social Psychology of White Habitus. Critical Sociology, 32(2-3), 229-253.

Grant, V. (2025) Integrity Coaching, Race, Identity and School Leadership Programme, https://www.integritycoaching.co.uk/race-work/identity-race-programme/

Helms, J. E. (2014). Toward a model of White racial identity development. In College student development and academic life (pp. 207-224). Routledge.

Ignatiev, N. (2012). How the Irish became white. Routledge.

Michael, A. (2015). Raising race questions: Whiteness and inquiry in education. Teachers College Press.

In this episode we talk about colour evasion as a foundational part of how whiteness functions in organisations, referencing the work of:

Leonardo, Z. (2015) Contracting race: writing, racism, and education, Critical Studies in

Bonilla-Silva, E. (2018). Racism without racists: Color-blind racism and the persistence

Bonilla-Silva, E., & Embrick, D. (2006a). Racism without racists: ‘Killing me softly’ with color

This episode offers a verbal timeline about policy relating to race in schools in England and gives further food for thought for educators and policy makers about the relationships between education policy and institutional racism.

I refer to the following documents:

The Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities: The Report (2021)

Esteves, O. (2018) The Desegregation of English Schools: bussing, race and urban space 1960s-1980s, Manchester University Press; Manchester, UK.

Gillborn, D. (2008). Racism and education: Coincidence or conspiracy? London: Routledge.

Mirza, H. S. (2024) [Found Online] Understanding Race Equality in British Schools: a 75 year timeline

Mirza, H. S. (2022). A short history of ‘Race’ in British schools: A 75-year timeline. On Education. Journal for Research and Debate, 5(13).
https://doi.org/10.17899/on_ed.2022.13.9

NEU (2021) Framework for creating an anti-racist approach [Available Online]

Are we still using that problematic term?

This episode is part of the Racial Literacy series to develop skills to talk about race.

In this episode, I discuss language and race and the 'right terms' to use to describe people.

So what is this podcast all about?

This short episode helps listeners to understand where the concept of 'race' came from historically and how it became embedded in the logics of colonialism still evident today.