By the mid-2010s, Jen Hatmaker had become one of the most important voices in white Evangelical culture. She had multiple best-selling books; she headlined massive women’s retreats; she was an influencer before we really even used that term. But then she broke with Evangelical doctrine when it came to LGBTQ people… and everything fell apart. More accurately, they started to fall apart — because the real life implosion wouldn’t come until 2020, when she woke up to the sound of her husband, a pastor, sending a voice memo to his mistress. Then things really fell apart.

Hatmaker hasn’t spoken publicly about the details of her divorce, but after five years, a lot of therapy, and her five children all entered into adulthood — she’s ready. Her life exploded. But then she was able to rebuild it using her own designs — not the church’s. Today she’s on the pod to answer your complex questions about midlife reinvention: how it happens, all the reasons it can happen, and who gets the “privilege” of pursuing it. I really loved this conversation, and if you like rolling around all the ways we can (and sometimes struggle) to change our lives, you will too.

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