Matt is joined by deputy editor of New York magazine and author David Wallace-Wells to talk about the new evidence for the so-called "Lab-Leak hypothesis," and about the possible origins of Covid-19. Wallace-Wells introduces the new research done by Jesse D. Bloom on possible missing tranches of genetic sequencing data from Chinese servers, and the discussion turns to what we know, don't know, can't know, and might know about the origins of Covid . . . and where that leaves us for the next pandemic.

"Understanding the Origins of SARS-CoV-2" (June 14; Fred Hutch News Service)

"Recovery of deleted deep sequencing data sheds more light on the early Wuhan SARS-CoV-2 pandemic" by Jesse D. Bloom (June 22)

"Scientist Opens Up About His Early Email to Fauci on Virus Origins" by James Gorman and Carl Zimmer (June 14, New York Times)

"The Lab-Leak Hypothesis" by Nicholson Baker (Jan. 4, New York magazine)

"Could COVID-19 Have Escaped from a Lab?" by Rowan Jacobsen (Sept. 9, 2020, Boston Magazine)

"We Had the Vaccine the Whole Time" by David Wallace-Wells (Dec. 7, 2020, New York magazine)

"The Implications of the Lab-Leak Hypothesis" by David Wallace-Wells (June 12, New York magazine)

David Wallace-Wells (@dwallacewells), Deputy Editor, New York magazine; author, The Uninhabitable Earth

Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias), Slowboring.com

Erikk Geannikis, Editor and Producer

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