Donald Trump’s latest clash with the Pope has stunned even the more hardened of America-watchers. According to the President of the United States Chicago-born Pope Leo XIV, the spiritual leader of 1.3 billion people, is 'WEAK on crime and terrible on foreign policy.' He also claimed that, 'If I wasn’t in the White House, Leo wouldn’t be in the Vatican.' Is the war in Iran the only reason the Pope and the President have clashed? And what does it tell us about religious relations in the US today?

In a special podcast collaboration, the host of Holy Smoke Damian Thompson and the host of Americano Freddy Gray discuss the dispute.

Produced by Patrick Gibbons and Natasha Feroze.

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