Sandra Waddock has spent decades exploring the systems beneath the systems, asking questions about purpose, story, and the deeper operating logic of business. Sandra argues that the current model focused on growth, control, and short-term profit is no longer serving people or the planet. Instead of fixing surface-level symptoms, she invites us to reimagine the foundational assumptions business is built on.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra talk about the myths that drive our current system, the limits of control, and the power of new narratives. They explore leadership as sensemaking, how small actions can shift big systems, and what it means to build organizations that support life, not just profit.

Sandra Waddock is a professor at Boston College and a leading voice on systems change, corporate responsibility, and sustainable business. She’s the author of Catalyzing Transformation and has earned multiple lifetime achievement awards for her work.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra discuss:
- Why business needs a new operating system
- The myths that hold outdated systems in place
- How to shift from control to connection
- Leadership as sense-making
- Why small wins matter more than we think
- The role of moral imagination in business
- Designing for flourishing, not just growth
- And more…

Sandra Waddock is the Galligan Chair of Strategy, Carroll School Scholar of Corporate Responsibility, and Professor of Management at Boston College’s Carroll School of Management. A globally recognized expert in systems transformation, corporate responsibility, and sustainable enterprise, her work brings together systems thinking, narrative change, and human development to explore new models for business. She has received multiple lifetime achievement awards, including honors from the Principles for Responsible Management Education (PRME), Humboldt University, and the Humanistic Management Network. Sandra’s latest book, Catalyzing Transformation, offers a practical framework for driving large-scale systems change.

Resources Mentioned:
Sandra’s Book, Catalyzing Transformation: Making System Change Happen: https://www.amazon.com/Catalyzing-Transformation-Making-System-Change/dp/1637425082

Connect with Sandra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-waddock/
Profile: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/carroll-school/faculty-research/faculty-directory/sandra-waddock.html 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

As one of the world’s leading experts on customer centricity, Peter Fader noticed that many businesses were making a critical mistake: they were treating all customers the same. Peter argues that customer centricity means focusing on the customers who matter most—those who are truly driving value for your company. His work is reshaping how businesses think about growth, loyalty, and strategy.

In this episode, Dart and Peter talk about why not all customers are created equal, how to measure true customer value, and why brand loyalty may be overrated. They also explore what it takes to design a business around your best customers and why doing so might be the most human move of all.

Peter Fader is a Professor of Marketing at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and a leading expert on customer centricity. His research helps companies identify their most valuable customers and build strategies around them.

In this episode, Dart and Peter discuss:
- Why product-first thinking holds companies back
- How loyalty programs often reward the wrong people
- What customer lifetime value really tells you
- Why probabilistic models beat classic segmentation
- How personas can hide what customers actually do
- The power of small wins in shifting company mindset
- What top customer-centric brands get right
- And other topics…

Peter Fader is the Frances and Pei-Yuan Chia Professor of Marketing at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the co-founder of Theta, a company that helps firms value their customer base. Peter is the author of Customer Centricity and The Customer-Base Audit, and his research has been featured in outlets including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Economist, and Harvard Business Review. Through his work, he helps companies identify their highest-value customers and build strategies around them.

Resources Mentioned:
Customer Centricity: Focus on the Right Customers for Strategic Advantage, by Peter Fader: http://amazon.com/Customer-Centricity-Customers-Strategic-Essentials/dp/1613630166

Connect with Peter:
Profile: https://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/profile/faderp/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterfader 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Ashley Whillans has spent years studying how time, money, and workplace culture shape our well-being. As a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School, she’s found that time poverty is more than a personal stressor—it’s a leadership challenge, an organizational blind spot, and one of the biggest barriers to well-being at work.

In this episode, Dart and Ashley talk about why traditional perks miss the point, why more control over your time can matter more than a raise, and what it looks like to build companies where people actually have time to think, rest, and grow. They explore urgency culture, the myth of work-life balance, and the tradeoffs we make without realizing it.

Ashley Whillans is a professor at Harvard Business School and the author of Time Smart. Her research has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review.

In this episode, Dart and Ashley discuss:
- How time poverty affects performance and well-being
- Why leaders should care about how their teams spend time
- The limits of traditional perks
- How to shift from burnout to sustainability
- Why work-life balance is a myth—and what matters more
- What “time affluence” really means
- And other topics…

Ashley Whillans is the Volpert Family Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. Her work focuses on how people spend their time and money—and how those choices shape happiness and success. She is the author of Time Smart, a book that helps people reclaim time in a world that constantly steals it. Ashley’s research has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review. Her PhD from the University of British Columbia earned the 2018 CAGS Distinguished Dissertation Award in Canada for her work on time and happiness.

Resources Mentioned:
Time Smart: How to Reclaim Your Time and Live a Happier Life, by Ashley Whillans: https://www.amazon.com/Time-Smart-Reclaim-Your-Happier/dp/1633698351

Connect with Ashley:
Harvard Business School profile: hbs.edu/faculty/ashley-whillans 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Stephanie Reuss and Victoria Stuart noticed that companies were making big decisions about jobs, teams, and strategy without really knowing what people were doing. So they built Beamible, a platform that maps work at the task level. It helps organizations see what is working, what is slowing people down, and what actually creates value for the business. In this episode, Dart, Steph, and Vic talk about why visibility is the first step to meaningful change, how AI is transforming job design, and what it looks like to optimize rather than simply balance the needs of people and business.

Steph and Vic are the co-founders and co-CEOs of Beamible. Steph is an award-winning entrepreneur and former global consultant with a background in finance, futures trading, and executive advisory. Vic is a former Google executive with expertise in strategy, technology, and workforce innovation.

In this episode, Dart, Steph, and Vic discuss:
- Why visibility into actual work is the first step to change
- What the “bubble chart” reveals about energy and value
- How AI transforms the way we think about job design
- What drains employees and how to identify it
- The human cost of misalignment between teams and leaders
- How to design for optimization instead of balance
- Shifting culture toward transparency and shared ownership
- And other topics…

Stephanie Reuss is the co-founder and co-CEO of Beamible. Her career spans corporate finance, consulting, and leadership roles across four continents, including positions at KPMG, the New York Mercantile Exchange, and CEB. She was named Entrepreneur of the Year by Women’s Agenda and was a finalist for NSW Business Woman of the Year. Steph is known for challenging traditional workforce models, and her work has been featured in the AFR, Sydney Morning Herald, and SmartCompany.

Victoria Stuart is the co-founder and co-CEO of Beamible. Before launching the company, she led industry strategy at Google and held leadership roles at Accenture and Digitas, working across technology, banking, and retail. With a background in both business and science, Vic brings a systems lens to complex workforce challenges. Her focus is on creating flexible, human-centered workplaces that are ready for the future.

Resources Mentioned:
Beamible: https://beamible.com/

Connect with Steph and Vic:
Steph’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-reuss-04a8ab15
Vic’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoria-stuart-76508810/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Most of us don’t realize how much fear shapes how we live and show up at work. But Amon Woulfe sees it clearly. As the founder of 432Hz, he has spent over a decade helping leaders understand the deeper fears that silently drive behavior, limit growth, and erode connection. In this episode, Dart and Amon explore how fear shapes leadership, why change agents often burn out, and what it takes to shift from protection to presence. They also discuss the limits of personality tests, the illusion of control, and how tuning in can unlock more grounded, courageous leadership.

Amon Woulfe is a leadership coach and founder of 432Hz, a company that blends psychology, performance, and transformation to help people lead with presence, clarity, and courage.

In this episode, Dart and Amon discuss:
- The nine psychological fears that shape leadership
- How fear creates protective patterns that limit range
- Why personality tests can become boxes instead of tools
- The role of curiosity in emotional freedom
- How leaders can move from performance to presence
- What it means to be "in tune" as a human being
- Why change agents burn out
- And other topics…

Amon Woulfe is the CEO of 432Hz and the creator of the world’s first holistic MAP of human development. He helps leaders overcome fear, unlock their potential, and grow from the inside out. As a coach and consultant, he has worked with executives, elite athletes, first responders, and military teams around the world. Amon’s mission is to help people live beyond fear so they can lead, grow, and create lasting change. He’s now focused on scaling this work to reach more people through human-centered technology.

Resources Mentioned:
432Hz: https://432hz.com

Connect with Amon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amonwoulfe

Website: https://www.amonwoulfe.com/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Michael Cholbi approaches work not just as a function of economics or management but as a deep philosophical question. He brings a rare lens to the topic, one that connects ancient wisdom, contemporary ethics, and the day-to-day experience of workers today. In this episode, Michael and Dart explore how work shapes us and how it might be reimagined to serve us better. From Plato and Marx to Bullshit Jobs, dignity to autonomy, they ask what makes work just, and whether companies are morally responsible for the work they design.

Michael Cholbi is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh and the author of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s definitive entry on the philosophy of work. His research explores ethics, justice, and how societal structures influence human well-being.

In this episode, Dart and Michael discuss:
- Why many people are “work-positive” by necessity, not choice
- What adaptive preferences reveal about our relationship to labor
- The moral obligations of companies that design work as a product
- Is the duty to work just?
- How automation could decenter work and expand freedom
- Working for dignity vs. being used as a means
- What a less work-centered future might offer us all
- And other topics…

Michael Cholbi is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh, specializing in moral philosophy and the philosophy of work. He is the author of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s definitive entry on work and labor—a leading scholarly resource. His research examines ethics, justice, and how social structures impact human well-being. He is also widely recognized for his work on the philosophy of death, grief, and autonomy. Michael has written or edited numerous influential books and frequently contributes to both academic and public debates on labor, meaning, and ethics. His work connects ancient philosophical insights with contemporary issues like automation and workplace dignity.

Resources Mentioned:
Bullshit Jobs: A Theory, by David Graeber: https://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Jobs-Theory-David-Graeber/dp/150114331X
The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on Work and Labor, by Michael Cholbi: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/work-labor/
The Republic, by Plato: https://www.amazon.com/Republic-Plato/dp/1503379981
Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844, by Karl Marx: https://www.amazon.com/Economic-Philosophic-Manuscripts-Western-Philosophy/dp/0486455610

Connect with Michael:
Website: https://michael.cholbi.com/ 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Anthea Roberts began her career in international law. But after years of studying global conflict and power, she realized the real problem wasn’t policy—it was perspective. People weren’t just disagreeing on solutions; they weren’t even seeing the same problems. This realization led Anthea to develop "Dragonfly Thinking," a framework designed to help individuals and organizations view challenges through multiple lenses. She is now creating AI tools to apply this methodology to real-world decision-making. In this episode, Dart and Anthea talk about designing better thinking, why diverse mental frames matter, and what it means to build tools that make us better thinkers, not just faster ones.

Anthea Roberts is the founding CEO of Dragonfly Thinking and a Professor at the Australian National University. Her award-winning book Six Faces of Globalization explores competing narratives shaping the global order, and her work blends law, systems, and cognition to help people and institutions think better at scale.

In this episode, Dart and Anthea discuss:
- Why thinking better—not faster—is the key to solving complex problems
- How to help teams see their blind spots and cognitive defaults
- What AI can and can’t do to improve decision-making
- Why tools must fit the human hand (and mind)
- The value of metaphor and reframing in shaping insight
- How to operationalize integrative complexity inside organizations
- And other topics…

Anthea Roberts is a Professor at the Australian National University’s School of Regulation and Global Governance and a Visiting Professor at Harvard Law School. A globally recognized legal scholar and systems thinker, she created “Dragonfly Thinking,” a framework for navigating complexity through multiple perspectives. Anthea is the award-winning author of Is International Law International? and co-author of Six Faces of Globalization, named one of the Best Books of 2021 by the Financial Times and Fortune. Through her company Dragonfly Thinking, she is developing AI tools to support better decision-making in complex environments.

Resources Mentioned:
Anthea’s website: anthearoberts.com
Dragonfly Thinking: dragonflythinking.net
Six Faces of Globalization, by Anthea Roberts and Nicolas Lamp: amazon.com/Six-Faces-Globalization-Loses-Matters/dp/0674245954
Superforecasting, by Philip Tetlock: amazon.com/Superforecasting-Science-Prediction-Philip-Tetlock/dp/0804136718
Images of Organization, by Gareth Morgan: amazon.com/Images-Organization-Gareth-Morgan/dp/1412939798
Kate Griggs on Work for Humans: open.spotify.com/episode/6JogZDTsIeABNKsuCGV6Ve

Connect with Anthea:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthea-roberts-a8596b142/ 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Lisa Kay Solomon sees design everywhere—not just in products, but in conversations, strategies, systems, and futures. As a futurist and strategist, she has spent her career helping leaders and organizations think long-term, navigate uncertainty, and drive meaningful change through intentional design. 

In this episode, Lisa and Dart talk about how to lead with imagination in uncertain times, why good strategy needs emotional engagement, and how design can be a form of applied hope. They also explore what leaders can learn from scenario planning, the surprising lessons of an early GNC wellness experiment, and how future-readiness starts with asking better questions.

Lisa Kay Solomon is a futures and design educator at Stanford University’s d.school, where she teaches classes on long-term thinking, systems leadership, and civic imagination. She is the co-author of Moments of Impact and Design a Better Business.

In this episode, Dart and Lisa discuss:
- Why the best leaders are also designers of the future
- The power of imagination in strategy and systems change
- What scenario planning can teach us about agency
- How emotional connection drives effective strategy
- Lessons from civic design and community-led change
- And other topics...

Lisa Kay Solomon is a futurist, strategist, and Designer in Residence at the Stanford d.school, where she helps leaders and students develop the skills to navigate uncertainty and shape long-term change. She is the co-author of the bestselling books Moments of Impact and Design a Better Business. Named to the Thinkers50 Radar list and recognized by ixDA as a Woman of Design, Lisa is known for blending design, foresight, and civic imagination to prepare people for the future.

Resources Mentioned:

Moments of Impact: How to Design Strategic Conversations That Accelerate Change, by Lisa Kay Solomon and Chris Ertel: https://www.amazon.com/Moments-Impact-Strategic-Conversations-Accelerate/dp/1451697627

Design a Better Business: New Tools, Skills, and Mindset for Strategy and Innovation, by Patrick Van Der Pijl, Justin Lokitz, and Lisa Kay Solomon: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Better-Business-Strategy-Innovation/dp/1119272114

Stanford d.school: https://dschool.stanford.edu

The Long Now Foundation: https://longnow.org

Connect with Lisa:

Website: https://www.lisakaysolomon.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisakaysolomon/

Course: https://www.linkedin.com/learning/leading-like-a-futurist

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Nubank is the largest digital bank outside of Asia and one of the fastest-growing companies globally, recently surpassing 119 million customers across Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia. Much of that growth has been fueled by an obsessive focus on customer experience. Now, Suzana Kubric and Jessica Matsumoto are bringing that same mindset to employees. In this episode, Dart talks with Suzana and Jessica about what it means to design HR as a product, why Nubank brought in PMs and designers from other disciplines to lead the effort, and how to lead an organization as it goes through this kind of transformation. 

Suzana Kubric is Chief People Officer at Nubank, where she’s leading a transformation of HR into a product and design function. She brings a customer-obsessed lens to building employee experience at scale.

Jessica Matsumoto is Senior Director of People Experience, Growth, and Culture at Nubank. She co-leads the People & Culture Product team, applying product thinking to reimagine how work is designed.

In this episode, Dart, Suzana, and Jessica discuss:
- How HR can be reimagined as a product team
- Why employee experience needs more than policies and programs
- What journey mapping looks like inside a 100-million-customer company
- How designers and PMs are reshaping HR’s role and process
- What makes employees feel like true customers of work
- The risks and rewards of building in the open
- Why this shift changes not just what HR does, but what it is
- And other topics…

Suzana Kubric is Chief People Officer at Nubank, where she is leading a transformation of HR into a product and service design function. She is helping one of the world’s fastest-growing companies redesign work to be as intentional and human-centered as its customer products.

Jessica Matsumoto is Senior Director of People Experience, Growth, and Culture at Nubank. She co-leads the People & Culture Product team, applying product thinking and experimentation to the full employee lifecycle.

Resources Mentioned:
Nubank: https://nubank.com.br

Connect with Suzana:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzana-kubric-8948b57/

Connect with Jessica:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-matsumoto-5a836620/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

If work is a product, and employees are customers of that product, then every company is a multi-sided business, one that must serve both consumers and workers. According to platform economist Andrei Hagiu, how companies design that experience, how they structure control, pricing, and participation, matters more than we realize. He has spent his career studying the world’s most influential platforms, from Uber and Airbnb to Apple and Amazon. In this episode, Dart and Andrei explore what platform strategy can teach us about modern work design, why the “employee vs. contractor” debate is outdated, when it is efficient to give employees more control, and what “platform governance” means inside a company.

Andrei Hagiu is a professor at Boston University’s Questrom School of Business and a leading expert on multi-sided platforms. His research focuses on the strategic decisions that shape platform businesses, including pricing, control, and design.

In this episode, Dart and Andrei discuss:
- What Uber, Airbnb, and Upwork get right—and where they fail workers
- The difference between a multi-sided business and a true platform
- Why “employee vs. contractor” is a false dichotomy
- How outdated laws are holding back the future of work
- When giving workers more control is smart—and when it’s not
- What a Mexican cockfight reveals about platform pricing
- How employers can learn from platforms to design better work
- And other topics…

Andrei Hagiu is a professor of Information Systems at Boston University’s Questrom School of Business and one of the world’s leading experts on multi-sided platforms. His research explores how platforms like Uber, Airbnb, and Apple make strategic decisions about pricing, control, and governance—and what those decisions mean for users, workers, and markets. Prior to BU, Andrei taught at MIT Sloan and Harvard Business School. He advises global companies on platform strategy and is the co-author of several foundational papers on platform economics. His work helps businesses, from tech startups to established firms, navigate the complex dynamics of serving multiple stakeholders at once.

Resources Mentioned:
Andrei Hagiu’s website: https://andreihagiu.com

Connect with Andrei:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-hagiu-0646751/ 

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.