Work For Humans

As AI and automation reshape the workforce, the traditional way we pass down critical skills is under threat. Junior workers are losing the opportunity to learn directly from experienced mentors, putting essential human abilities at risk. Matt Beane, a leading researcher in machine intelligence, has spent a decade investigating this problem. In his latest book, The Skill Code, Beane uncovers the hidden dynamics of expert-novice relationships and explains why preserving these bonds is crucial for thriving in a tech-driven world.

Matt Beane is an assistant professor at UC Santa Barbara, known for his groundbreaking research on the impact of robotics in the workplace. He holds a PhD from MIT and has delivered a TED talk with over 1.8 million views. His latest book, The Skill Code, highlights the importance and process of preserving human skills in the age of AI and automation.

In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:
- The impact of tech on workplace learning
- Technology management programs
- Whether tech shapes behavior or vice versa
- Using tech for scale development
- The difference between knowledge and skill
- Challenges in developing skills in tech-driven environments
- Using positive deviance to grow at work
- Human capital development’s connection to productivity
- And other topics…

Matt Beane is an author and assistant professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, in the Technology Management Program. He is known for his pioneering work on how robotics are transforming the workplace, particularly in the evolving relationship between humans and machines. His latest book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines, explores how technology is reshaping the workforce and highlights the importance of preserving essential human skills as automation and AI become more prevalent.

Matt holds both a PhD and a Master’s in Management Research from MIT’s Sloan School of Management and is also a Digital Fellow at both Stanford and MIT. His work delves into how organizations and individuals adapt to intelligent technologies, focusing on sectors like healthcare and manufacturing. His research on robotic surgery was published in 2019 in Administrative Science Quarterly and Harvard Business Review, and his related TED talk has over 1.8 million views. Matt is also a regular contributor to popular outlets such as Wired, MIT’s Technology Review, TechCrunch, Forbes, and Robohub.

Resources mentioned:
The Skill Code, by Matt Beane: https://www.amazon.com/Skill-Code-Ability-Intelligent-Machines/dp/0063337797
“Don’t Let AI Dumb You Down,” by Matt Beane: https://www.wildworldofwork.org/p/dont-let-ai-dumb-you-down
How Buildings Learn, by Stewart Brand: https://www.amazon.com/How-Buildings-Learn-Happens-Theyre/dp/0140139966

Connect with Matt:
www.MattBeane.com
www.TheSkillCodeBook.com
X: @mattbeane
www.SkillBench.com 

On Work for Humans, we explore what people truly seek from their work. A recurring theme we have found is the desire for puzzles to solve. In today’s episode, we chat with a puzzle expert and creator to uncover the elements that make a compelling puzzle and how we can apply these principles to create work that people genuinely love.

Jasen Robillard’s career has evolved from engineer to product specialist, geological mapper, and now, jigsaw puzzle creator. He is the founder of Stumpcraft, a Canadian jigsaw company that has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.

In this episode, Dart and Jasen discuss:
- The definition and attributes of a great puzzle
- How Jasen started StumpCraft
- The components of a compelling puzzle
- Puzzles, problems, and messes at work
- Work as an empathy playground
- Puzzle creation constraints
- Puzzles as part of the transformation economy
- And other topics…

Jasen Robillard is the founder of Stumpcraft, a premium wooden jigsaw puzzle company based in Canada. With a passion for intricate design and craftsmanship, Stumpcraft locally crafts each puzzle from sustainably sourced wood, incorporating unique, laser-cut pieces of Canadian fine art to challenge and delight puzzle enthusiasts. Jasen’s career journey led him from engineer to product specialist to geological mapping and, now, to jigsaw puzzles. Stumpcraft has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.

Resources mentioned:
Tools for Thinking, by Michael Pidd: https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Thinking-Modelling-Management-Science/dp/0470721421
“C.O.R.E. Attributes,” by Justin Gary: https://justingarydesign.substack.com/p/justin-gary-core-attributes

Connect with Jasen:
www.StumpCraft.com
Substack: https://substack.com/@jasenrobillard 

From managing crises to ensuring compliance and safety, HR professionals are often the first responders in the workplace. Julie Turney, an HR specialist with over 15 years in the field, found herself so focused on supporting others that she became depleted and burned out.

Drawing from her journey and research, Julie now dedicates her work to creating positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma.

Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc.

In this episode, Dart and Julie discuss:
- The major challenges of HR professionals
- HR as first responders in the workplace
- Self-care and support for HR professionals
- Things all HR employees need to know
- Self-forgiveness in the field
- The balance between HR, leadership, employees, and regulations
- Julie’s recommendation for improving HR contracts
- And other topics…

Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc. With over 15 years of HR experience, she is passionate about building positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma. Julie focuses on talent management, employee development, and organizational change. Known for her ability to blend empathetic leadership with strategic HR practices, she helps companies navigate transitions while improving overall employee satisfaction.

Resources mentioned:
Confessions of an HR Pro, by Julie Turney: https://www.amazon.com/-/he/Julie-Turney/dp/0578905825
HR Sound Off podcast
Interview - Julie Turney X The Pivot Series

Connect with Julie:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjulieturney
www.HRatHeart.com  

Marty Cagan was ten years into his engineering career when he began questioning the purpose of his work. Frustrated with the products he was building, he wondered why they were necessary—but soon, he realized that asking "why" was the job of the product manager, not the engineer. So, he became one. Not just any product manager, but a leading expert in the field. Now, through Silicon Valley Product Group, Marty helps companies transform the work behind their products to build meaningful results.

Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). With decades of experience, he has held leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP.

In this episode, Dart and Marty discuss:
- Key elements of top product teams
- Best practices in product management
- Capabilities and responsibilities of a product manager
- The core principles of product culture
- How processes can kill companies
- 3 non-negotiables for product managers
- And other topics…

Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). He is best known for his book Inspired: How to Create Products Customers Love, which is widely regarded as a key resource in product management. With decades of experience, including leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP, Marty has a deep understanding of what it takes to build successful products. He is recognized for his emphasis on creating empowered product teams, focusing on solving customer problems, and building a strong product culture.

Marty is a graduate of the University of California at Santa Cruz and the Stanford University Executive Institute. His latest book, Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model, explores how successful product organizations operate and provides insights on transforming companies into ones that consistently deliver great products.

Resources mentioned:
Transformed, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Transformed-Becoming-Product-Driven-Company-Silicon/dp/1119697336
Empowered, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Empowered-Ordinary-People-Extraordinary-Products/dp/B08MV6VRGY 
Inspired, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Marty-Cagan-audiobook/dp/B07BDQVC45
The Song of Significance, by Seth Godin: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Significance-New-Manifesto-Teams/dp/B0BWPSHCXS
Loved, by Martina Lauchengco: https://www.amazon.com/Loved-Rethink-Marketing-Tech-Products/dp/B09WFRB5TX

Connect with Marty:
www.svpg.com 

Work for Humans has long advocated for employees to be seen as customers, but we've faced resistance from traditional programs that churn out MBAs focused on profits and the bottom line. This perspective overlooks a critical point: companies risk losing money and innovation if they don’t put employees at the center of their decisions.

In a surprising turn, author and professor Stephan Meier has partnered with Columbia Business School to release The Employee Advantage. Through detailed case studies, this book demonstrates how embracing an employee-centric approach leads to superior business outcomes.

Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School.

In this episode, Dart and Stephan discuss:
- Key drivers of customer and employee centricity
- The reasons behind rising customer expectations
- Leadership mindsets for employee well-being
- Customers vs. employees in earnings calls
- Case studies of employee-centric models
- Lessons from employee segmentation
- The need for “just-right tasks” in the workplace
- The role of the manager in an employee-customer model
- And other topics…

Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School. Stephan is also the author of The Employee Advantage, which demonstrates how employee-centric companies drive superior business outcomes.

With a master’s degree in history, economics, and political science, and a doctorate from the University of Zurich, Stephan’s research has been published in journals such as the American Economic Review and Management Science, as well as outlets like the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Bloomberg, and BBC. Prior to his tenure at Columbia, he was the first senior economist for the Center for Behavioral Economics and Decision-Making at the Federal Reserve Bank.

Resources mentioned:
The Employee Advantage, by Stephan Meier: https://www.amazon.com/Employee-Advantage-Putting-Workers-Business-ebook/dp/B0CTZCM238

Connect with Stephan:
www.StephanMeier.com 

Work for Humans has always been about designing with the employee in mind, but many designers mistakenly focus on objects rather than the actions those objects should create. This leads to falling back on traditional roles and routines when there is actually more choice out there. Inspired by the power of designing for action instead of things, WFH connected with Stephanie Goia and Melanie Kahl—two design strategists dedicated to human-centered organizational design. Together, they’re creating a pattern language library, offering a resource that encourages more choice and innovation to all designers.

In this episode, Dart, Stephanie, and Melanie discuss:
- Human-centered organizational design practice
- Pattern language in design
- Designing for verbs instead of things
- What is designable and what isn’t
- 5 key categories of pattern language
- Design lessons from education and biological systems
- Holding spaces for participatory design
- And other topics…

Stephanie Goia is a partner and lead design strategist at Future Work Design, a firm dedicated to transforming workplaces through innovative design. With over 15 years of experience in consulting and education, she specializes in organizational design and human-centered practices. Stephanie also serves as the Lab Director of EitherOrg and as an Executive MBA instructor at the University of Oregon, where she furthers her commitment to participatory design and systemic change.

Melanie Kahl is an innovation leader and strategist with over 15 years of experience designing programs and spaces that foster human flourishing. She previously launched Meta's first Community-in-Residence program and led projects with global organizations like the Gates Foundation and USAID. Melanie holds a degree from Northwestern University and is an adjunct professor at the School of Visual Arts and the Copenhagen Institute of Interaction Design.

Resources mentioned:
Seeing Like a State, by James Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-like-State-Certain-Condition/dp/0300078153
A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Language-Buildings-Construction-Environmental/dp/0195019199
Dark Matter Labs: https://darkmatterlabs.org/
The Edge of the Sea, by Rachel Carson: https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Sea-Rachel-Carson/dp/0395924960

Connect with Stephanie & Melanie:
www.futurework.design
www.eitherorg.org
Stephanie LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniegioia/
www.MelanieKahl.com
Melanie’s Instagram: @melanie_kahl
Melanie’s X: @melaniekahl

Architecture has traditionally centered on buildings, often overlooking the most crucial element—people. Urban designer Blaine Merker sees this as a missed opportunity. As Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at the Gehl research consultancy, Blaine aims to shift the industry’s focus. By guiding companies to adopt community-centered design practices, he’s working to transform urban spaces, ensuring that people—not just structures—are at the heart of every project.

In this episode, Dart, Blaine, and Alice discuss:
- The origin and mission of Gehl
- Shaping behavior through empirical evidence and design
- Prioritizing people over buildings in architecture
- In-between spaces and why companies should invest in them
- The norms created by a space
- Designing for serendipity, connection, and collaboration
- Integrating ecology into corporate landscapes
- And other topics…

Blaine Merker is Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at Gehl, an urban design and research consultancy dedicated to enhancing urban environments for everyday people. At Gehl, Blaine leads the company’s private sector work, focusing on helping companies be good urban citizens. During his career, he has managed public and institutional portfolios, taught at the University of California, Berkeley, and led a landscape architectural practice. Prior to Gehl, Blaine was partner and founder of Rebar Art and Design Studio, where he combined art, design, and activism to transform urban spaces.

Alice Katter is a Work Culture & Community Designer and Consultant and founder of Out of Office Network, a pioneering research and design lab and hub.

Resources mentioned:
Rebar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar_Art_and_Design_Studio
Insurgent Public Space: https://www.routledge.com/Insurgent-Public-Space-Guerrilla-Urbanism-and-the-Remaking-of-Contemporary-Cities/Hou/p/book/9780415779661
Rebar’s Absurd Tactics in Generous Urbanism: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/mono/10.4324/9780203093009-10/taking-place-rebar-absurd-tactics-generous-urbanism-jeffrey-hou
Life Between Buildings, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Between-Buildings-Using-Public/dp/1597268275
Immersion, by Paul Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Immersion-Science-Extraordinary-Source-Happiness/dp/1544531958
How to Study Public Life, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/How-Study-Public-Life-Gehl/dp/1610914236
Paved Paradise, by Henry Graber: https://www.amazon.com/Paved-Paradise-Parking-Explains-World/dp/B0BBXGL7QT/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

Connect with Blaine:
www.GehlPeople.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blainemerker/ 

Remote, hybrid, and from-home work options are here to stay, but there’s more to work flexibility than just location. Leadership advisor and author Brian Elliott has found that most employees want more control over their work, from when they work to how their success is measured; It’s time to redefine and fully embrace flexible work. In his recent book, How the Future Works, Brian provides a blueprint for using flexible work to truly unlock individual potential.

Brian Elliott has over two decades of experience successfully leading teams at companies like Google and Slack. He is a LinkedIn Top Voice, one of Forbes’ “Future of Work 50,” and the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work.

In this episode, Dart and Brian discuss:
- Changing leaders’ experiences around distributed work
- Defining the purpose behind a company’s work style
- Strategies to level the playing field for employees
- Measuring outcomes based on teamwork
- How to create a culture of connection from any location
- Prioritizing schedule flexibility over geographic flexibility
- Demographic shifts in remote work
- And other topics…

Brian Elliott is an esteemed author, speaker, and leadership advisor, currently serving as the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work. With almost three decades of experience in leadership, he has successfully led teams and built companies both as a startup CEO and as an executive at Google and Slack.

Brian holds degrees from Northwestern University and Harvard Business School. He is the bestselling author of How the Future Works, a LinkedIn Top Voice, and has been recognized as one of Forbes’ “Future of Work 50.” His insights have been featured in publications such as Fortune, Harvard Business Review, and Time.

Resources mentioned:
How the Future Works, by Brian Elliott: https://www.amazon.com/How-Future-Works-Leading-Flexible-ebook/dp/B09YN2J6XZ

Connect with Brian:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belliott/
www.FutureForum.com 

Hundreds of thousands of college graduates were promised that more learning meant more earning – but they’re now facing a harsh new reality. AI, outsourcing, and a shifting economy have created an oversupply of educated workers, leading to widespread feelings of betrayal and crushing student debt. Human capital is not delivering on its promise.

Phillip Brown, a distinguished sociologist, author, and professor, is on a mission to redefine human capital in an age of new technology and limited quality jobs. In his latest book, Death to Human Capital, he calls for a new paradigm to rethink how we view labor supply, demand, and returns.

Phillip is a Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. He has authored 17 books and more than 100 publications, critically examining the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale.

In this episode, Dart and Phil discuss:
- The rise and false promise of human capital theory
- The oversupply of graduates and economic betrayal
- Outsourcing knowledge work and the impact of AI
- Labor scarcity vs. job scarcity
- The definition of a quality job
- The new paradigm
- Rethinking labor supply, demand, and returns
- Phil’s specific policy recommendations
- And other topics…

Phillip Brown is a British sociologist, author, and Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. With over three decades of experience, his work critically examines the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale. His latest book, The Death of Human Capital, argues against the false promise of human capital theory and redefines it in the context of AI, outsourcing, and job quality.

Phillip holds a Ph.D. from Swansea University and is a Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences. He has authored 17 books and over 100 articles and reports, and has delivered keynote presentations in over 17 countries, including at the World Bank, International Labour Organization, and European Union.

Resources mentioned:
The Death of Human Capital, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Human-Capital-Promise-Disruption/dp/0190644303
The Global Auction, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Global-Auction-Promises-Education-Incomes/dp/0199731683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&sr=1-1

Connect with Phil:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-brown-23b60316/?originalSubdomain=uk
Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=O9LeQNwAAAAJ&hl=en 

We tend to use the word ritual to talk about everyday routines. For instance, we have our ritualistic cup of coffee in the morning. But rituals are much more than just repetitive actions. True rituals carry deep meaning, emotion, and a promise of transformation.

As a professional ritual designer, Tiu De Haan has designed rituals in countless forms. She took on the heavy task of designing a ritual to unite families of organ donors with organ recipients. She designed a ritual to help a man reach peace with the death of his twin brother who died at birth. And she's created rituals to help teams bond, think outside the box, and do their best work.

Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, inspirational speaker, consultant, curator, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for almost two decades, working with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, Bank of America, and BBC.

In this episode, Dart and Tiu discuss:
- How to design a meaningful ritual
- The difference between a habit, routine, and ritual
- How rituals can inspire creativity and new ideas
- The components of effective rituals
- Smaller rituals you can incorporate at work
- Team-building rituals
- The role of the “keeper of the rituals” at work
- And other topics…

Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, curator, inspirational speaker, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for over 17 years, including her year-long mentorship program called The Path. As a ritual designer and consultant, she has worked with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, L’Oréal, Bank of America, the Centre for Quantum Photonics at Bristol University, and BBC, among others.

Connect with Tiu:
www.Tiudehaan.com