WorkMomSays that actively seeking ways to increase your value to your employer and exploring opportunities beyond your current position are key to making more money in 2025. In this episode, discover strategic steps you can take to earn a higher income.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

00:23 – Making more money in 2025: The importance of increasing your value beyond your current role and making yourself indispensable.

1:19 – It’s about performance, not time: Longevity alone doesn’t guarantee a raise; taking on more responsibility and making your boss’s job easier is crucial.

2:35 – Barriers to promotion: A personal story highlights the importance of developing essential skills like client communication.

5:05 – Exploring side gigs: Consider opportunities such as selling products on platforms like Etsy or taking on seasonal retail work.

6:30 – Commission-based roles: Finding commission opportunities can lead to higher earnings, especially for those initially hesitant about performance-based pay.

8:02 – Increasing your income: Evaluate your job performance, consider changing positions, monetize hobbies, or seek commission roles if feeling financially stuck.

3:35 – “Your current employer knows your strengths, but they also know your weaknesses, and that can be a problem.”

6:04 – “If you have an interest outside of what you do day to day, that you would enjoy something like that, feel free to add that to your roster. A lot of those kinds of positions, it’s commission based.”

7:06 – “I would advise that if you want to make good money, find a position that allows you to get compensated for bringing in business or for encouraging customers to make a purchase…”

8:12 – “Consider whether you’re doing enough at your current position. Consider whether it’s an appropriate time for you to move to a new position. Consider if you have a hobby or a passion you can monetize. Consider if you could take a job that offered commission.”

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:12

Hello, I’m Lori Jo Vest, also known as Work Mom. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Work Mom Says “Don’t Be an Idiot!” I am so happy you’re here. Today we are going to talk about what you should be doing in 2025 if you want to make more money. 

A couple of things to talk about. In a lot of cases when people are earlier in their careers, they may not understand that it’s really, really important that if you want to get a raise, you have to make yourself more valuable beyond the position you’re currently holding. 

Business owners and corporations have specific budgets for specific positions based on profitability and operations expenses, etc, etc. And if you can take the salary that you have and the job that you have to the very highest level, so you get to the top of that budget range and the top of the performance range, then you can talk to your boss about getting a raise or a promotion.

1:19

One of the things that I hear people say, as I’ve been doing this job for two years now, “I should get a raise.” It’s not a matter of time. It’s not about time. It’s about more responsibility. It’s about making your boss’s job easier, maybe being that one size fits all person that can volunteer to take on pop up projects. Those are the things that make you valuable to your boss in your current position, and it’s a great way to get a raise, is to just always be on, always have goals, always look toward getting the next promotion in how you perform your current position- you’re setting yourself up for success. 

So what if you’re at the top of the budget range, and you want to make more money, but you know, it’s not going to happen right away? Sometimes your boss is limited. Maybe there’s people that are in the positions they’d like to promote you to, but you’re ready, and that person’s not. Or that person is, you know, firmly ensconced doing a great job and happy. 

There may be some barriers to you rising through the ranks at your current employer. It can happen. What those barriers are? One is that your current employer knows your strengths, but they also know your weaknesses, and that can be a problem. 

2:35

And I’ll give you an example. I had a wonderful employee, probably 12, 15 years ago, absolutely wonderful guy, and he was really wanting to move into the next higher position at the company that would allow us to give him a raise. And he did get a few opportunities. We gave him a few opportunities to sit in that chair, and that position that he wanted to move into required client communication and client collaboration, and that can be difficult for some people, and sometimes early in your career, if you’ve not been trained, it can be really hard to be good at that. And we had allowed this young guy to sit in that chair and be on a project with a client, and it started to go a little south. 

Now, in the business I was in, I was in video production, it wasn’t unusual for there to be little missteps along the way, because we were always trying to bring a client’s vision to life. Creativity is very subjective, so you were always working towards something and asking the client along the way, are we getting there? And sometimes there are blow ups. I mean, you’ve got creative people. Sometimes, you know, a creative producer will have an emotional response to something that they see, that they don’t like. And this particular guy got really defensive when the client said they didn’t like what he had done. 

Oh, it was bad. Let’s just say I had to do a lot of apologizing, and I had to have a meeting with him and go through the reasons that I felt he wasn’t ready to sit in that client-facing spot yet. And he didn’t like what he heard. He didn’t like it. 

And I actually talked to him and said, hey, you know what, one of the things that you may have to do, and I understand it if you do, is move to a different company in order to get the jump that you want to jump. Maybe a different industry, there may be other opportunities out there, but this is what I’ve got for you now. I’m happy to work with you to help you gain those skills. But in my opinion, you’re not quite ready to be in a client facing position independently, yet. Soon as you are, I’ll promote you. Can’t promote you right now. You need to make more money right now, you may have to go somewhere else.

And it was perfectly normal to consider that. I mean, a lot of employers won’t go that far in a conversation with you, but I think they should, because you deserve an honest assessment of what’s happening at the company and what your opportunities are in the next three months, six months, one year. And so that’s one way- be the best employee. 

5:05

The next thing to consider, if you want to make more money is, do you have the opportunity to have a side gig? And I’ll give you an example: I have a client that is making a product that she sells on Etsy. It’s pretty expensive, and she’s doing pretty well, and she’s selling a ton of them. She’s hiring her friends and family members to come over for 25 bucks an hour, help her pack, you know, beautiful packages of her product to go out to her customers. And that’s an opportunity to make a little extra cash. I have a friend who is a huge fan of a designer brand, so let’s just say she’s a big Gucci fan. During the holidays, designer brands need help. So if you are a huge Gucci fan, go to Gucci in December and see if they need assistance, and if you can get on their list to be called in and work the floor at a beautiful Gucci store, or maybe at the Chanel counter. 

If you have an interest outside of what you do day to day, that you would enjoy something like that, feel free to add that to your roster. A lot of those kinds of positions, it’s commission based. So if it’s a product that you are really passionate about, you can hang out with people, talk about the product, make commission, make new friends who come back and buy from you repeatedly, and it’s a kind of a side hustle that can be part time and kind of a passion hobby/source of income. 

6:30

Another thing you can do is consider taking a position that offers commission. And that can be challenging. Some people are afraid of commission. They want, you know, big salary and a little commission. 

And I’ve been guilty of that myself early in my career, I didn’t like big commissions because I was always afraid that I would have those dips in pay and maybe not be able to make my bills. So I was particularly picky about where I worked based on the size of the salary over the commission percentage. And I mean, it worked for me, but I wouldn’t advise it to others. 

Honestly, I would advise that if you want to make good money, find a position that allows you to get compensated for bringing in business or for encouraging customers to make a purchase, or hire a service that you offer. Even if that’s not a direct part of your position, if you can figure out a way to influence customers and potential customers, prospects, do that. And then see if you can get a commission on that, bringing that in. 

It may not happen in a large corporation, but in a lot of smaller to mid sized businesses, if you can become a source of revenue by actually bringing in customers, you can add a percentage to your pay. And that’s not unusual at all. I know we do it at our agency. If you go out and meet somebody and they just end up becoming a client, then you get a little bump in your pay every month for as long as they’re with us. So there’s a lot of things like that that you can do. 

8:02

So if you think you’re stuck in your job, you can’t get a raise, you’re never going to make any more money, and it’s really depressing, it doesn’t have to be. Consider whether you’re doing enough at your current position. Consider whether it’s an appropriate time for you to move to a new position. Consider if you have a hobby or a passion you can monetize. Consider if you could take a job that offered commission. 

So those are four ways that you can increase your income in 2025. Work Mom says, you have it in you. If you want to succeed and you want to make good money and you’re willing to be as productive as you can, set goals, meet those goals, every day, you will be successful in your career. It’s just inevitable. It’s how it works. 

Because a lot of people out there are calling it in, they’re phoning it in, they are not showing up. They’re in the Zoom call, but their mics are off and their cameras are off and they’re not paying attention. Be the person that stands out, because you do want to be productive and successful and have strong relationships, and that will help you make more money this year and many years into the future. 

9:09

So that’s what I’ve got for you today. Again, I’m Lori Jo Vest. I have a website at workmomsays.com where I house my podcast episodes. You can also listen to me on my podcast on those standard channels, iTunes, Spotify, etc, and I am an open networker on LinkedIn. I’d love to hear from you there. 

Please give me a subscribe and a like. Comment, tell me what you think, I’d love to hear from you. I’m always willing to consider ideas for guests and topics, answer questions. There is a contact page on my website at workmomsays.com. I would love to hear from you. So take care, I’ll be back to talk to you again soon.

This podcast is for young professionals who want to learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 44: New Year, More Money appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

#WorkMomSays that the quality of your work – both who you are at work and your work product – determines your success. In this episode, learn just how important the quality of your presentation and relationships as well as your work output are when building a solid career.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

2:30 – Presentation is everything: ALWAYS remember that you are being paid to behave on behalf of your employer, and that means representing your company with positivity and professionalism.
5:30 – Mood management: Paying attention to your behavior at the office will help you grow past emotions so that your emotions are no longer controlling you. When it’s inappropriate to express them, you put them aside.
8:30 – Improve quality of your work: Is your work accurate, is it thorough, and are you making the effort to produce quality work at all times?
10:00 – Don’t just get it done: Meeting deadlines is important, but making sure your work is the best it can possibly be while meeting deadlines is way more important.

3:40 – “You are being paid to be there, and you’re also being paid to build productive, effective relationships with the team, and that’s something that a lot of people miss.”
5:10 – “It’s really good for your humanity to be forced to be patient with people, to be forced to be compassionate, and that’s one of the things that paying attention to your behavior at the office will help you do. It will help you grow past emotions, so that your emotions are no longer controlling you. You control them, and when it’s inappropriate to express them, you put them aside.”
6:15 – “Self-awareness will serve you really well in managing the quality of your behavior at work.”
10:00 – “However, the best way to think of it is to make sure it is done and done well. And that takes a little bit longer. It takes more effort, it takes more focus. It takes proofing.”
10:50 – “It’s a competition in some ways, not necessarily direct, but it can be a competition, and your behavior and how you present is one aspect of it, and your quality of your work is another.”

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:00
Hello, I’m Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot. I have been doing this podcast, I think, for three or four years now. I really love to share what helped me rise through the ranks in my career and helped me get to new levels of success regularly.

So that’s what this podcast is about. I want to teach you how to play the emotional contact sport of business because it is an emotional contact sport. There are things that will stand in your way. There are emotions that you will have that will cause you to perhaps behave in a way that is not as productive as you should be if you want to succeed in your career.

So there are a lot of things we can talk about, but today, I want to talk about the quality of your work and how and why that’s so important. There are so many people that come through companies that are early in their career that you can tell they just don’t get it. And by that, I mean they’re still in the college mindset, or they’re still in the mindset of, you know, I am myself everywhere I go, I behave the same way everywhere I go.

01:30
While that may sound appealing and it may sound like the advice people are giving you when they say, be authentic, it’s really not. When you are in a work situation, you are being paid to act and behave on behalf of that company. So if you keep that in mind at all times that you are representing your employer during business hours and at business events, you will behave in a more strategic fashion.

And one of the things that that means is you will look at the quality of your work, and for this episode, I want to talk about the quality of your work in both your presentation and how you behave and how you talk and build relationships at work, as well as the quality of the actual work you’re doing.

Say you’re a copywriter, you’re a welder, you’re a mechanic, you’re a customer service person. So there’s two different aspects to this. One is how you present, and when I talk about the quality of your presentation, again, think about it this way, you are being paid to behave on behalf of your employer, and with that comes some responsibility, and the the more you represent that brand, with positivity, professionalism,

03:00
You want to be able to express the culture. you want to be what I call on, and what that means is you are presenting your best self, your best behavior, so that when someone comes up to you in the middle of your day, they can interrupt you in the middle of something.

You’ll say, “oh, excuse me, just one minute. Let me just finish this one thing,” and then give them your full attention and be positive, even though you may be slightly annoyed. That’s not how you will present, and that’s not how you will behave.

You are being paid to be there, and you’re also being paid to build productive, effective relationships with the team, and that’s something that a lot of people miss. I’ve seen it, and if you pay attention to this podcast and other career advice resources, you’re going to hear a lot about your behavior and how you think plays into your behavior.

04:00
So for example, I just gave you a story of someone or a time when you might be really annoyed because somebody interrupted you and you were on deadline, and oh, my God, you’re late. And and so you feel that bit of emotion coming up based on the fact that you are wanting to be a stellar employee and wanting to rise through the ranks of the company.

To be successful in what you’re doing, that bit of emotion would be put to the side, because, again, you’re being paid to behave and a certain way, and by managing how you feel, it’s easier to behave your way to success.

So for example, it can be so annoying when somebody, for example, I mean, I was talking to my husband earlier today, and there was a guy I used to work with that if you asked him a question, maybe he had to explain a process to you, and it was eight steps long, and you got to the fourth step and you had a question,he couldn’t answer your question without going all the way back to the first step and going through it, 1234, now, this man knew his stuff.

5:00
He was so valuable and had such a incredible depth of technical knowledge that you had to put aside that annoyance and just be patient. And honestly, it’s really good for your your humanity to be forced to be patient with people, to be forced to be compassionate, and that’s one of the things that being paying attention to your behavior at the office will help you do it will help you grow past emotions so that your emotions are no longer controlling you. You control them, and when it’s inappropriate to express them, you put them aside.

That’s the kind of thing you want to learn in order to have quality in your work relationships. It’s really important. It’s called mood management. Emotion management. It’s basically getting to know yourself and then pushing your own limits.

How much can I reframe what’s happening in this difficult situation, and act in a way that’s positive and creates a connection, even in high conflict. I mean, I have been in really high conflict situations in the office. It happens. Mistakes are made.

6:00
People get angry, people get sad. You know, people have emotional breakdowns. People get depressed. I mean, things happen that are related to emotions in the workplace. So you want to focus and on learning about that aspect of yourself.

Self awareness will serve you really well in the quality of your behavior and managing the quality of your behavior at work. So that’s part one.

Part two of this is the quality of your actual work. And what I mean by that is, if you’re an accountant, do you turn your reports in on time? Are they accurate? Are they thorough? Do they follow all the accounting rules? Do you turn them in on time in the format that your employer desires.

07:00
If you’re a copywriter, are you putting in your best effort to write really good copy in the right voice? If you’re a journalist, are you digging deep to find more information, instead of just writing the who, what, when, where? Why are you going deeper than that so that you’re writing something that has more meaning. If you’re a musician, are you practicing enough? Are you really focused?

If you are the front desk receptionist, are you presenting a solid, wonderful face for the company that you represent at the front door? The people that man those front desks and security stations, in my opinion, never get the right amount of attention and kudos, because when if they’re going to do it, well, it requires someone who can just consistently be on and just say good morning every day, remember names, make an effort.

And you can see how that making an effort to to produce quality work plays out in several different types of job categories, so the quality of your work is really important. You are in a competition with other people that want to get that same boost up the career ladder that you do, and if your work isn’t at the highest quality, you won’t get there.

8:30
So what can you do to improve the quality of your work? I’ve got a couple great tips as a writer, and I know this is just as effective for people in accounting, other aspects of business, problem solvers. If you feel like you’ve come up with the best solution, you’ve written the best thing of copy you can in your first draft, your first attempt, and you think you’re done,

You’re maybe not done. Maybe go away from the job for a couple hours, turn to another project for a couple of hours, and take your attention focus off of that particular thing so that you can come back and see it with fresh eyes.

9:00
And in a lot of situations, not just copy, but, you know, in all kinds of business situations, maybe a letter to a client, maybe you’re developing a report, you’re doing an Excel spreadsheet, or you are, you know, building a frame for a door.

You may find that when you come back with fresh eyes, you see something you didn’t see before that could make it better, or that could correct a mistake, or make it more efficient, make you look better. And it’s really important, especially early in your career, that those details get attention.

I have some new people on my team. I always have new people on my team, and there are constant situations where the new person turns back in a work product, and I look at it and there’s typos and there’s maybe some, maybe it’s not quite what was spelled out in the written instructions.

10:00
People can very, very easily get in the habit of focusing on getting the work done, and that’s a great thing. I mean, the work has to be done. You’ve got to meet your deadlines. However, the best way to think of it is to make sure it is done and done well. And that takes a little bit longer. It takes more effort, it takes more focus. It takes proofing.

If you’re a welder, you don’t just slap the stuff on there and you’re okay, I’m done, and keep moving, because people will see that weld. You want it to be the best possible weld? If that means you have to practice, if that means you have to get advice, you have to research materials or temperatures.

Then, as a person who is career oriented and wants to do better in their career and make more money, you will practice and you will do that extra work that makes your work shine above your competitors, because that’s what the work world really is.

It’s a competition in some ways, not necessarily direct, but it can be a competition, and your behavior and how you present is one aspect of it, and your quality of your work is another. And I’ll tell you something really funny. I had a client that had a young assistant that they hired, and this woman was just delightful to talk to.

11:30
She was so positive, and she was so gracious and pleased and thank you and and we really enjoyed working with her the first few weeks. And as time went by, we realized that she wasn’t really doing the work the way she was supposed to be doing the work. It was thrown together. It was late. She would forget.

And when you confronted her on it, she was so sweet. I mean, just sweet as can be, so you’d feel bad being angry at her. And I used to threaten my team, because they would get really mad at this woman, because they had to create newsletters and and do work based on what she gave them, and it was always like, half done or lots of errors or not done at all.

And so they really struggled with her. But I was the only one that was ever on a call with her, and I used to threaten the team I’m going to make you get on the call with, let’s call her Sharon, so that you can see how perplexing it is to work with someone who presents so well and is So, you know, fun and kind, but whose work product is horrific, but you couldn’t hate her.

So, I mean, there’s just some really interesting situations. You don’t want to be that person who does, you know, really crappy work, but everybody likes them, because really crappy work will not keep you at your job, and it also will not get you that promotion or that higher-paying new job. Part of your reputation is your behavior and your presentation.

13:00
The other half is the quality of your work. So work mom says that over and over and over again, the quality of your presentation, who you are, how you behave, the relationships you have, deserves just as much emphasis as doing the best quality work you can, putting in the extra effort, showing up early, meeting your deadlines, asking the right questions, those two things together will make you soar. I swear it’s just amazing.

When I meet a young person that has both sides of that coin, they’re unstoppable. So you want to be unstoppable too. So keep following me.

If you’re watching this on YouTube, I would love it if you would give me a subscribe and hit that like button and maybe even share something that I said that you, that resonated with you.

14:00
I also have a website at workmomsays.com and that is where I share all the episodes of my podcast as well as, you know, helpful articles. And I have a contact form there if you’d like to get in touch with me. And last but not least, LinkedIn, I’m an open networker there. Would love to hear from you. Just let me know that you know that you are a listener to the work. Mom says, podcast and YouTube channel, so thanks again. I will see you again soon.

This podcast is for young professionals who want to learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 43: The Quality of Your Work Determines Your Career Success appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

In this episode, Work Mom Lori Jo Vest discusses the importance of workplace politics and relationships. Her main piece of advice? Prioritize creating positive, connected relationships and exhibiting strategic behavior in the workplace.

She offers many ways to play the emotional contact sport of business, from being cautious about joining companies with toxic politics to the importance of conflict resolution, emotional management, and building alliances with power players.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

00:28 – You must make connected, positive relationships a priority in the workplace
02:42 – Be mindful of joining an organization where the leadership team has romantic relationships. It may indicate a toxic business culture.
04:03 – When you go into a new company, find the power players and align with them by creating strategic relationships with them.
06:10 – When emotions rise, step back so you can come back when you’re calm and manage the situation strategically.

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

Hello. I’m Lori Jo Vest, also known as Work Mom, and I am here to talk to you today about workplace politics. There’s so much they don’t tell us when we start a new job or a new career, and politics is important. There’s a lot to be said for your relationships at the office, and those relationships will either serve you or hold you back.

One of the things that I will say right up front is that it’s critical that you make connected, positive relationships a priority in the workplace. Anybody that you work with, even if you socialize with them as well, the positivity of that relationship, the level of connection that person feels with you, how well they feel they know you, how authentic you are. Can they trust you?

Those factors are really critical to being successful in your job and in your career. So politics. What is it in the workplace? What does that even mean? It means basically the unspoken dynamics. Whenever you have a group of people working together, there will be a power structure. There will be power struggles. There will be people who truly believe that they know more than others. There are people who truly may know more than others who don’t think they know that much. There will be people with big egos who want to come in and take over because they know their way is the right way. There will be people who will be sideways with how they get things done and how they get their way. It’s really interesting.

One of the most critical things you can do at the beginning of your career, throughout your career, and especially at the beginning of any new job, is to be very strategic in how you think and be intentional in what you do.
So when you get into a situation in a meeting where it seems like you may be going in a direction that you know is not going to serve the client or the company or your job, do you say something, or don’t you? That depends on the strategic answer.

Sometimes, in a meeting like that, you would say, “Hey, you know what, guys? I have a devil’s advocate perspective. I’d love to share,” and share your perspective. But there are other times when maybe you know that the people in charge don’t want to hear it, and it’s just going to backfire on you when you may choose not to do that.
The power dynamics in a workplace are really important. One of the things that I would advise you to look for while you’re getting a job or considering a new job or a new company is look at the relationships among the leadership team.

Often in smaller organizations, you will see maybe not often, but sometimes you’ll see bosses that are in relationships, romantic relationships, with members of their team, never a good idea, never a good situation. In most cases, there’s a power dynamic there that has led to boundaries being broken.

A boss should never have an affair with someone who works for them. If you know of that happening at your company, probably a really good indicator that the politics there are toxic, that people who show well, like, you know, the show ponies, or what one of my friends used to call the High School Musical cast, um, those people may be in control because they show well, while the people who do really good work but don’t have those connections to the power players may be shoved to the side and may not get the career kudos or The the promotions and accolades that they should get.

So when you enter a new company, look into who those players are and get to know your coworkers. Hold some things back. If there are things that may make you controversial at the beginning of an employment engagement, you may just hold on to those things a little bit and be strategic and intentional in everything you say and do. Build some allies.

One of the things that’s really, really helpful is to have people on the team that you’re close to that you maybe every morning, you come in at the same time and you get your coffee and or you’re, you know, the first ones on the Zoom meeting. So you have a little bit of conversation and get to know each other a little bit. You can also have lunch outside of the office or coffee outside of the office to get to know people who can help you. Don’t go for the sad sex in that situation. Don’t build your ally ships and relationships with people who are not performing well or are known to be difficult. Make your allies among the power players. So really look at ways that you can build relationships with those people that you can tell people look up to because you want to be among that crowd. You want to be seen as one of those people.

And other things that come up in workplace situations that would be considered political would be how you handle conflicts. Conflicts at the workplace are so challenging sometimes because someone can push your buttons, trigger all your trauma, and you have no idea how they did it.

They just came in; they reminded you of your nasty stepmother, or maybe a friend of yours, that the relationship went sour. You know, those kinds of people. You’ll see them at work, and they will cause conflict, and they will, you know, bring disagreement. How you handle those conflicts, and disagreements, and the things that they do that might not be pleasant or expected will determine your success in that workplace. You never want to burn a bridge.
So, in any conversation where you feel the emotions rising, you can’t play politics. When emotion goes up, logic goes down; playing office politics, which is a necessity in any workplace, is absolutely necessary. Playing politics by being negative never works. Going through a conflict and letting somebody have it and burning that bridge never works if you don’t have conflict resolution skills. There are books you can read, there are counselors you can go to, there are mentors that will help you with that you want to be sure that in a conflict situation at work, you can manage your emotions to the point where you can look at what the person’s trying to get from the conversation, instead of taking what they’re saying or doing personally.

And you know, I’ll give you an example. I had a co-worker that was just really quiet. And I thought, after, you know, three or four weeks sitting next to each other, she never talked to me. And I thought, maybe she just doesn’t like me. And there are 65 things you can do when you feel like someone doesn’t like you. You can gossip about it to somebody else. Do you know her to show that I don’t think she likes me? You can keep that thought in your head and say, “Oh man, she really doesn’t like me. I better be careful.”

Or you can get curious. In conflict situations, getting curious is the best thing you can do if someone asks you to do something that maybe there’s a deadline that you know you can’t meet.

Instead of getting angry and causing something ugly in that conflict, stop for a minute and think; get curious. Are there any other solutions out there that I can suggest besides doing exactly what this person wants, which I know is impossible, but they don’t want to hear no.

When someone comes to you with work on a tight deadline, they often do not want to hear no. So, just by saying, oh, gosh, not sure if I can do that. You’re causing a conflict. So when I say conflict, think of it that way. It’s not like people raging at each other. It’s more like just the little things that happen that can get people upset over the course of a business day. So, never burn a bridge during those conflict situations. Always look at the problem from the same side as your coworker or your client. So it’s not the two of you arguing with each other and going against each other; it’s the two of you looking at the problem and going, huh, together. How can we solve this? That is a sure way to resolve and negotiate conflict in a way that helps everybody see all the different facets and come to a collaborative decision. It really, really works. It’s not a conflict between the two of you. It’s a conflict between the two of you and the problem.

So keep that one in mind. There are times when you don’t want to play the game, even though office politics can feel like a great big game; you know that you have to make the right decisions and, you know, be strategic and move the right way and say the right thing to be successful.

There are times when you will not want to go along, and in most cases, that’s if somebody’s asking you to do something illegal, they’re asking you to do something immoral, or they’re asking you to, you know, to tell an untruth, to lie, cheat, steal, any of those kinds of things. If that is part of the culture of the office where you are playing those political games, get out. So keep your head down and start looking for that next job, because in some of those types of situations, you may think if you play along, it’ll be okay, but you could also become the target, people can target you and say you caused that problem, even if you were just going along and it was never your idea to do any of the illegal, immoral, untruthful things.

So it’s always best to stay away from those situations. Find yourself another job if that’s what’s happening. And finally, one of the things that people talk about a lot is being authentic in the office, which means that you should bring your full self to work. And I 100% agree that being authentic has so much value when you are showing your true personality and being you know your true self and expressing your honesty, your honest thoughts, you know who you are as a human being, people will be more likely to trust you, and that’s really important in business relationships.

However, don’t just bring yourself; bring your best self. So if there are things that you might do in talking to your sister or your husband that are a little snarky or a little sarcastic, that might be a side of your authenticity that you don’t want to bring to the office.

Dry humor is great. Sarcasm, anything that could be construed as being hurtful, not so great. So when people tell you to be yourself, be yourself, but be your most strategic, best self, and that’s really the best place to start if you’re playing office politics. So that’s all I’ve got for you today. Thank you so much for listening, and I will be back soon with a guest or two and some more career tidbits to help you climb the corporate ladder and play the emotional contact sport of business.

If you watch this on YouTube, please hit that subscribe button for me. Give me a like, give me a comment. I am an open networker on LinkedIn, I’d love to hear from you there.

I am an open networker on LinkedIn. I’d love to hear from you there. I also have a website at work. Mom says.com, you can contact me there if you’d like to suggest a guest or you have a question or a topic you’d like me to cover, looking forward to connecting with you, and I will be back soon with some great advice and information. Take care.

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 42: Office Politics for Beginners appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

Trying to level up your personal and professional lives? Try putting an emphasis on growth in both areas, and you’ll grow your career success, too. In this episode, Lori Jo Vest shares ways you can become a lifelong learner and feed your mind with great information that will help you live a life you love.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

1:01 – While growth may start as setting goals or making plans for your future, it can become a positive addiction to growing your skills and mastering your emotions
2:21 – The impact of cultural and familial conditioning on one’s mindset and the importance of changing these beliefs
9:49 – The benefits of therapy for emotional growth and managing difficult client relationships
13:36 – Feeding your mind with quality literature, music, and other forms of intellectual stimulation
16:20 – The importance of surrounding oneself with positive and supportive people

1:23 – I frequently say I’m addicted to personal growth. I am. I’m always looking to learn something new, to try something new, to jump in with both feet, with new technology, with new marketing tools, things like that, because it’s exciting. It’s interesting to live a life that has variety in it and that challenges you.
3:38 – The Landmark Forum basically teaches you that there’s what happens in your life, and there’s the story you tell yourself about what happened, and your power lies in that story.
11:16 – If you’re struggling with emotions, because sometimes it can be so challenging for us to unpack what it is in our heads that is causing us to be so angsty or to feel so much discomfort in a difficult client exchange. So therapy is a really great thing

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:00
Hello, I’m Lori Jo Vest, also known as Work Mom. Thank you so much for being here for this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot.

Today, I want to talk about personal and professional growth and the value of becoming a lifelong learner. One of the things that I picked up in my thirties that I highly recommend is that you make a commitment to both your personal and your professional growth.

If you want to hit the goals you’ve set for yourself, if you want to excel in life, if you want to experience new and different things, have challenging work, express your passions, make a difference in the world, all those things that so many of us aspire to, yet many do not.

01:00
Taking a mindset of continuous learning and continuous personal and professional growth will serve you well. If you don’t have it yet, get started. And I can promise you that what starts out as goal setting or you know, maybe a chore can turn into kind of an addiction.

And I personally, I frequently say I’m addicted to personal growth. I am, I’m always looking to learn something new, to try something new to jump in with both feet. with new technology with new marketing tools things like that because it’s exciting, it’s interesting to live a life that has variety in it and that challenges you.

Focusing on that growth and developing a continuous growth mindset will be really helpful as you seek to either you know fly up the corporate ladder and become a C-level executive or maybe you want to become an entrepreneur or you want to become an independent you know millionaire there’s all kinds of ways to get there so if you have big goals get started by focusing on your personal professional growth.

02:00
And I’m going to tell you a little bit about some of the things that I did. Early on in my thirties, I had a good friend that suggested that I take this personal development course called Landmark. And the company that runs it is called Landmark Education. They are all over the world. And they do amazing things when it comes to changing how you think.

We are conditioned, or as one of my favorite authors would say, domesticated into thinking that we have to be a certain way, act a certain way, perform a certain way, learn a certain way, and that our past has a huge impact on who we are now and we’ll never reach those goals because they’re just too hard. So we get conditioned by our culture, by our family, by the people we are surrounded by.

And what Landmark did for me, they have two courses that I did, I could have done more, but I felt good about the two I did. And that was enough, called the Landmark Forum. And what’s the other one? Landmark Forum and I have to go look that up. So the two courses that Landmark offers are the Landmark Forum and the Advanced course. They have others as well, but I didn’t take any of those. I was good with the two that I took.

03:00
So the Landmark Forum What I recommended to everybody, probably not because it’s a specific type of in your face training that forces you to confront all kinds of things. And if you’re not open minded and open hearted enough or strong enough when you do it, I don’t know how it would work for you. I know it worked for me. I was in a great place.

And the forum basically teaches you that there’s what happens in your life, and there’s the story you tell yourself about what happened. And your power lies in that story. You can look at your past as something that drags you down. You’re a victim. And you may have been a victim of something horrific.

Trust me, I understand that. Speaking from personal experience, I’ve had several traumatic experiences and people that have done horrific things to me. And I’m not a victim. But society may encourage you to be a victim and kind of wallow in it when you have the power of not doing that.

04:00
And Landmark Forum basically taught me to let go of all those rocks I was holding on to. as I went through life and tried to do better, be a better person. And one of the ways they did it that was absolutely hilarious, but it kind of explains it. This seems like something that wouldn’t work, but it did.

There were one hundred and eighty people in this room. sitting in those really uncomfortable conference center chairs that we’ve all sat in. And the room has, you know, the fluorescent lights and those funky ceiling panels and the rooms, the carpeting is kind of ick, and it’s just it’s just very, very, very basic. It’s not meant to be comfortable. And honestly, I think they do that on purpose because if you’re too comfortable, you’re not growing. I mean, that’s just kind of a fact of life. If you’re too comfortable, you are not growing.

So anyway, so you go in there with all these people and they do you do several different exercises over the course of three solid days, all day Friday from like nine in the morning till nine o’clock at night, all day Saturday from maybe ten o’clock in the morning till ten o’clock at night. And most of the day on Sunday. And it gets grueling. It really does.

05:00
However, they have you do these exercises, all different kinds, several of them throughout those days. And one of them that really stuck with me was they had you spend twenty minutes writing about something that you were suffering about. And I was suffering about my ex-husband. I was in the middle of a divorce and I wrote just this big long thing to keep writing, keep writing. You’d start writing, you know, you’d think you’d told your story.

They say, no, keep writing, keep writing. And you just write and write and write. And you’d have maybe five or six pages of, you know, things that were really awful and that you were suffering about. It was just horrific. You know, when I was writing mine, I was crying and people were next to me were crying and people were looking angry. And I mean, it was a really big deal.

And then they tell you to stay. They partner you up. They tell you to partner up with someone sitting near you that you don’t know and move your chairs together so that you’re facing each other. So you’ve got all these people and, you know, little twosomes. And then one person listens while the other person reads their story.

06:00
I had five pages. I read the whole five pages. I’m crying. This poor person sitting across from me is just like listening, trying to be empathetic, I’m sure. And I’m reading it over and over and over. And by the time I read it maybe six times, seriously, I was looking at that paper and going, “what is my problem? oh my god I’ve been suffering about this.”

All it took was was writing out your story and then reading it in that context to another human being who doesn’t know you for your brain to kind of go wait a minute this is this is truly a story. You don’t have to tell it that way and it changed the way I thought about the past and also the present. It means that if somebody acts ugly to you you’ve got a myriad of ways that you can respond because you can tell yourself a different story.

07:00
For example, I have a really difficult client right now and I at the beginning of the relationship was getting a little snippy I was feeling uncomfortable and micromanaged and I was really struggling with it and my landmark training came back to my mind.

Keep in mind landmark was years ago and it still exists, but I took my landmark courses twenty five years ago and this person that I’m working with is now someone over the last nine months I’ve been really working on being what I call intentional with her.

Because I want to be intentional in how I respond to any comments she makes anything she says that are, you know, is worrisome. And since then, I’ve completely changed how I look at her and I just don’t see or hear any of the negative tones and things or if I do notice that I laugh, I don’t get angry and you know, get defensive, I just laugh.

08:00
So being intentional is something you can do when you realize that there’s what happens and the story you tell yourself about what happens. So there were tons of other exercises around those types of topics at the Landmark Forum.

And the next course is the advanced course, which talks about your future. Instead of thinking that you’ve got to chase your dreams and run toward it and it’s so hard you’ll never get there, they teach you to experience it now, basically. Feel the feelings, look at what you really want, be clear about it, and then pull yourself toward it. Behave your way toward that goal.

And again, it’s a different way of looking at your future. By visualizing it really strongly and then pulling it toward you with your actions and your thoughts, you realize that goals don’t have to be hard. You can start experiencing the joy of having achieved that goal now And believe it or not, I’m not sure how it works. It could be your subconscious mind, it could be the universal energy, it could be anything, but it will bring it towards you.

09:00
So my whole point in talking about landmark is that landmark courses really helped me up level my internal conversation, so that I knew that learning could be life changing. Personal growth could be life changing. And so I really got on the path. I think I was about thirty seven at that point. So don’t wait that don’t wait as long as I did. But I was about thirty seven.

And since then, I have decided, you know, pretty much to experience new things, do new things, try new things and create a life that I love, that I enjoy. And I have managed to do that by just continually looking for that next way of growing, learning, being a better human being.

Another example of that is therapy. If you are in a emotional state, you’re having difficulty playing the emotional context sport of business because your emotions are getting in the way. The example I shared earlier with about this client, I was struggling with my emotions and I’ve been doing this sales thing for a really long time. And I was really struggling. I was having a hard time being friendly and professional and kind, which is what you’re expected to do in business.

10:00
And as a result, I had to concentrate on being intentional with all my interactions and continually reminding myself that this was a client whose work I really, really enjoy doing. So I have to tell you the landmark work help work really helped me in that.

So if therapy is something that you think you might benefit from, give it a try. Psychologytoday.com has an amazing directory of therapists. I just found my therapist there about a year and a half ago. And it’s a really good thing to do if you’re struggling with emotions because sometimes it can be so challenging for us to unpack what it is in our heads that is causing us to be so angsty or to feel so much discomfort in a difficult client exchange.

So therapy is a really great thing and you can find affordable therapists. There are therapists out there that will do sliding scale billing or negotiate a rate for you if your insurance doesn’t cover it. So that is always a good thing to do. If you don’t find the right therapist the first time, find a different one until you find that person that you mesh well with.

11:00
And it really does give you an educated, objective outsider point of view on your thoughts and feelings so that you can maybe call yourself out on things. Sometimes we have distorted thoughts. We are thinking things that aren’t true. It’s called cognitive distortion,s and cognitive distortions can be dangerous. They can really get you in trouble. And we don’t want that.

You know, they can get you in trouble at the workplace. You’re assuming that, you know, cognitive An example of a cognitive distortion at work would be your coworker came in and sat down next to you. They were a little huffy and they slammed down their lunch and they ran off. And you’re thinking, oh my God, what did I do to make them mad? And you’re going into that mode where you think they’re mad at you, but the reality is they’re not. They’re not mad at you. They just had a really bad morning.

12:00
And, you know, those kinds of things can get you in trouble at the office because you can feel like, you know, you’re always kind of on guard. Maybe you’re a sensitive human being. I’m highly sensitive.

I can struggle with trying to determine how someone’s thinking so I know how to behave so I keep them happy. That’s not your job. Keeping other people is not your job. keeping other people happy is not your job. And so getting the kind of help that you need some, you know, mental tuning up, as I would call it, is always a good idea.

Other things you can do that will keep you moving in the right direction are reading books. I discovered that I am ADHD. I didn’t know that. Women frequently don’t get diagnosed until later in life. And I have a book that my therapist recommended that is a workbook that I’ve been going through and learning a ton about it so that I can kind of compensate, put some guardrails around myself and function in a more organized fashion. I say I’m a chaos monster. So if you’re a chaos monster, you might want to check and see if ADHD is somewhere up there in your head too.

13:00
So what else can you do for personal growth? Create some supportive habits. One of the ways I’m really supporting myself is waking up every morning and doing affirmations. I worked with a health coach for a month and decided that doing some affirmations in the morning as part of that effort would set me up for a better mindset for my day.

And that’s really helpful when you get up and you say, I am a divine child of the universe. I am loved and protected by the universe and I am creating financial abundance or financial stability for my family and I am a loving and intelligent and productive human being that deserves all the good that I can muster.

When you put those kinds of things in writing and you write five or six times each of those sentences, it sticks with you throughout the day it really does. It helps you get in a mindset that is boosted as soon as you start.

14:00
Feed your mind in whatever way you can. Sometimes that means listening to classical music, watching the top one hundred movies, reading really good literature, solid, really wonderful literature. ingesting quality art is an amazing way to grow as a human being because you get different perspectives.

With reading and audio books, you can, you know, really increase your vocabulary and your speaking and writing ability. Listening to fantastic music is just so good for your mind and your emotions. I find that if I need to be productive, I can put on a certain kind of music. There is a type of music called binaural beats that’s really good for meditating and, you know, creating, ideating something if you’re trying to be creative and you want to come up with an idea.

15:00
So there’s all kinds of different ways to support your personal growth and professional development. And whatever ways you can, make sure you’ve got at least one of those initiatives going on at all times. I would just make that a habit.

Maybe join a masterminds group. Those are really great for pushing you to grow in the direction that you want to go. Because if you’re in a masterminds group, you’re able to share your hopes and dreams, and the people that are in that group with you, provided you’ve got a really strong group, will help push and motivate and inspire you to get there. So again, personal growth and development, have a supportive group of people around you

I’ve heard it said, and I really firmly believe it’s true that you are, you personally are the result of the five people you spend most of your time with. If you are spending your time with people that are negative, that demean you, that drag you down, that cause you emotional upset, you need to change out those people.

16:00
Trust me, you need to change out those people. I’ve done it. I’ve had some situations in my life where I was in just toxic relationships, either with a boss, a family member, a coworker, and removing yourself from it instead of continuing to try to make it better or try to figure out why you’re maybe being mistreated.

Just walk away, find a new job, you know, be less available to those friends and family members, or just cut them out entirely. Because you cannot grow if you are surrounded by or impacted by people that want to drag you down and pull you back it’s just not a good thing for anybody so take that seriously.

17:00
If you’ve got somebody in your life that’s really causing you all kinds of emotional upset figure out what to do about it it’s you know don’t let it go on for years because it can and it will um if you set your up such as it can and it will if you set yourself up for that.

That’s what I’ve got for you today. Thank you so much for listening. If you are watching on YouTube, please hit that subscribe button. Give me a like, give me a comment. I’d love to hear from you. I am an open networker on LinkedIn and you can reach me there at Lori Jo Vest.

And I also have a website at WorkMomSays.com that has all kinds of great information, lots of episodes, even the early ones where we were just really silly and just had a lot of fun, as well as some great resources. I have a book that’s on Amazon as well. It makes a great gift for college students and newly minted young professionals. So that’s what I have. Thanks so much for joining me. I’ll see you again soon.

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 41: The Power of Personal & Professional Growth for Career Success appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

Are you struggling to determine your career path? Career Dad and Work Mom are here to help! Career Dad Kerry Doyle joins us to talk about his work helping young people find their passion and career BEFORE dropping thousands of dollars on college OR if you just don’t feel like college is right for you.

From networking to prioritizing your passions to the many ways to get to know an industry before you enter it, we cover a ton of ground.

Expert Guest: Kerry Doyle, the Career Dad

What He Does: He helps parents and teens explore their intended career path before wasting thousands of dollars on college tuition. He’s not anti-college, but he helps young people consider the many career avenues available since college isn’t the best choice for everybody.

Connect: You can find him on LinkedIn and his website

Timestamped inflection points from the show

4:00 – Normalizing career uncertainty: Knowing your career calling in your twenties is VERY uncommon. It’s better to explore what you might be interested in to find the right fit rather than search for that perfect career.
9:00 – College isn’t always the right choice: From trade schools to excellent jobs that don’t require degrees, there are tons of options out there. College may not be the right choice for you; it’s just a matter of doing your homework and exploring your options. Kerry can help you do that!
10:00 – The importance of self-discovery: Strengthfinder assessments, career counselors, and talking to people in your intended industry are great ways to figure out the right career path for you.
18:00 – Handling rejection and career stress: Consider rejections as learning experiences. Take the lessons learned, learn to pivot or shift directions, and keep it moving.
23:00 – Skill-building > job titles: Entry-level jobs and jobs that aren’t your dream job can be the best option because they teach you tons of skills AND can get your foot in the door. Don’t turn down a job just because it isn’t perfect.

6:40 – Kerry: My advice is to look for that experience beforehand, before you make the investment. I’m not against college. Do some homework before college, something that you’re not used to doing. Get out of your comfort zone. And don’t assume that college is always the right choice.
7:30 – Kerry: We’re responsible for our careers, our own lives. It’s not the teachers and parents anymore. It’s us.
10:00 – Kerry: You can connect with them digitally, you know, through LinkedIn or something, but explore and get in conversations with people, go meet with them in person or through Zoom or something, and find out what it’s really like.
12:00 – Kerry: There are a few reasons I wouldn’t put all my weight into the assessments. One, it’s a snapshot in time and our personalities and our interests change over time. It’s also based on theory. Yes, it’s based on statistics and behavior and surveys and other things, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to sync up with you.
14:00 – Lori: A good career counselor is probably an even better option. Someone who can sit with you and ask you questions like, do you like to make things with your hands? Are you a woodworking kind of person as a hobby? Well, then maybe skilled trades would be a good place for you.
18:00 – Kerry: You take those moments that are difficult and you look at them as learning experiences and say, okay, I need to strengthen that or maybe shift here, pivot here, whatever. But it’s all a data point.
20:00 – Lori: One of the things that I would suggest people do is find people in the industry that you think you’re interested in. Connect with people either that you know or on LinkedIn and ask for an informational interview.
22:00 – Kerry: Anything new to us can be scary, and it usually is. But that fear gets magnified the longer we think about it, the longer we overanalyze it. Once you take the action, that fear gets reduced. And the more action you take, that fear gets reduced and reduced and reduced to zero.
23:00 – Kerry: If you get to know more people, whether they have an opening or not, they will refer you to somebody else when they hear of an opening. So the side door, the stepping stone jobs, that’s more likely to happen than going to a job posting and saying, oh, there’s my perfect job. I’m going to apply for it and get it.

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:00
Lori
Hello, everybody. I’m Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot. Today, my guest is Kerry Doyle. And Kerry is starting a business called Career Dad, right? Is that what it’s called? TheCareerDad.com. Yes, Career Dad. TheCareerDad.com.

And so what we want to talk about today is how it can be really difficult to find the right career path when you’re just out of high school or in your early twenties. So we’re going to focus on what happens after you’ve graduated.

Maybe your friends went off to college or maybe you went off to college and decided it wasn’t for you. Or maybe you’ve been out of college for a few years and you still haven’t found that sweet spot where you belong, you make good money, and you’re happy. And what I want to start out with right off the bat is finding the right career is not as easy as people make it seem. Right, Kerry? It’s just not that easy.

01:00
Kerry Doyle
Correct. Sorry. Yes, it’s not that easy. It can be simplified. I think people overcomplicate it. But even when it’s simplified, it’s still not easy because you have emotions and other things that come into play.

Lori
Yeah. Right, and the perfect job that you think would be great for you might not be a fit, or it might not be available when you’re ready. So I’ll tell you a little story about my early career days.

I envisioned being a radio DJ. I was going to be on the radio. I didn’t even think about television. Had a broadcast degree, really loved radio, loved the whole DJ thing. And then I realized that in order to make it in that business, you basically have to work in teeny tiny towns, making teeny tiny money, sitting in a room by yourself. And I’m a major social animal. I’m like, I just love being around people.

02:00
And so what happened when I got out of college is I was kind of at a loss. What should I be doing? And I decided that advertising was probably a really good place for me. So I sent out, I’m serious, probably one hundred fifty resumes. That was back in the day when you sent out a paper resume in an envelope with a cover letter and you waited for them to call you back.

And I got a call from that first batch of a hundred that I sent from a company that did outdoor advertising. Now that’s billboards. And not only was it billboards, which is the poor stepchild of the advertising media, but it was outdoor advertising ads. targeted to the black ethnic market, which back in the eighties was not very popular. And it was on the sides of liquor stores and grocery stores in the city.

And I, I had no choice. I needed a job. I took the job and I was so lucky because my boss in that position basically taught me everything I needed to know about sales. It was absolutely amazing. I really had a lot of fun in the job. Um, I was, um, his punk rock account executive. He called me cause I had the hair and I was all like, you know, just out of college. And, and I stayed there for three and a half years because I learned so much. I was able to make a little bit of money.

03:00
And as soon as I started to get kind of bored and kind of like, okay, I need to look for something else and opportunity in television production came up. And that’s where I spent the majority of my career. Um, First out of college, first thing out of college, that wasn’t an option. I didn’t even know who to talk to or who to communicate with to try to find those jobs.

But once I was in the industry, then I kind of got the lay of the land. Three and a half years later, I kind of knew where to go and an opportunity presented itself. So the first thing that you end up doing that’s a career job might not be the career job.

So today we’re going to talk about a couple of things. We’re going to talk about how normal it is to be uncertain about your career in your twenties, some self discovery tips, building some resilience so that when you get the no’s that you’ll get, they don’t take you out. They might knock you down, but you stand back up and keep going.

04:00
And then I want to talk a little bit about how you can continue to grow your career once you do get that first career job. So, Kerry, let’s talk about how the current situation in society tells young people that, oh, there’s a job out there for you and you just go find it. Live your passion. Live your dreams. Is that realistic?

Kerry:
I don’t believe so, no. If you pick up many career books, talk to many career counselors, they’ll tell you, find your passion, find your calling, find your perfect job. And guess what? There isn’t one perfect job.

And in terms of callings, unless you’re in the clergy or something, it’s very rare as well. The responsibility is on us as people to find out what’s in the market and do the homework and find out what fits. And there won’t be just one perfect fit for everybody. There are multiple.

05:00
I mean, there are thousands and thousands of career paths, fields, and jobs. really depends on the situation so you might think oh I I like medicine I want to go into medicine and you get in there you get into the situation like yeah this isn’t quite the right fit well maybe it’s not medicine maybe it’s the people in that group you’re working with you know it can be so there’s so many different variables people want to find that perfect thing and it just doesn’t it doesn’t exist people will find the right fit after experimenting multiple times

Lori:
Yeah. And I also, I found a statistic that people will change jobs, most people, twelve or more times in their thirties. And when I think about that, I worked at McDonald’s, then I worked in media production, then I worked in outdoor advertising, then I worked in video production. And now I work in social media and I do a podcast. I mean, we all have lots of facets to who we are.

So you have to find a job that matches what your interests and talents are. Not always easy. So I also think some people make it look really, really easy when it’s not. So if you see people on social media that are out there, oh, I just got out of college, got my perfect job and I’m making millions. They’re not sharing the dark and ugly side of it, right?

06:00
Kerry
Right, right. Well, yeah, exactly. And the other thing is the default path is find something you’re interested in, get a degree, go out there. Well, you thought your DJ path was going to be different than it actually was after you got the degree. Yeah. um so the other things we all and then once you got into your outdoor job you said you learned everything from sales from the person you worked with, that’s how everything works.

Get experience and learn from the experience. It’s on the job experience. We don’t train people that way we say hey go to kindergarten through twelve and then plus four more years and a hundred grand and then go start working and get that experience.

My advice is look for that experience beforehand, before you make the investment. I’m not against college. I’m just saying do some homework before college, something that you’re not used to doing. Get out of your comfort zone. And don’t assume that college is always the right choice, right?

07:00
Lori
Absolutely. It depends on the career. For the last fifty, sixty years, it was pretty much the default path. graduate from high school, go to college, or you’re going to end up in a low paying job, that dead end job. It’s not the case anymore.

You know, I believe in education. I believe in higher education. I just don’t believe that is the default path. I believe there’s so many other options for education. And I believe we are responsible for it, not the college. They’re not responsible for finding us that perfect job. We are.

Kerry
The other thing is, Lori, as you said earlier, you didn’t know until you got there. We tend to lean towards careers we’ve been exposed to. Our parents, our friends, something on TV. We know what we’re exposed to. And my advice is get exposure and say, well, how do you get exposure? Well, Talk to people, network, explore. Again, we’re responsible for our own career, our own lives. It’s not the teachers and parents anymore. It’s us.

08:00
Lori:
Right. Absolutely. Well, and I want to tell a quick little story because my son, he really thought that he was going to work in corporate America in the automotive industry. He graduated from University of Michigan.

He had done a internship at Stellantis/Chrysler. He was overseeing dealership operations in their service department, and I think it’s called parts and service department. And he was excited. They had actually given him the three shirts with the three brands on them, and he was going to graduate and then go to work for Stellantis, and he was all excited about it.

And then the pandemic happened. And those jobs just disappeared. There was nothing there. There were no jobs. He went to get what he thought was his pandemic job as a service advisor at a Chrysler dealership. He knew all about it because he’d been on the corporate side in that area. So he went and got the job and he thought, you know, low paying, I’ll just kind of hang out here until Christmas. things open up a little bit in the automotive industry.

09:00
And what happened is fast forward four years and he is a service advisor on Alfa Romeo and Wagoneer. He’s making six figures. He is a hundred percent commission and he did not need a college degree for that job. What he needed was a passion for automotive and he loves helping people with their cars. And that’s probably the business he’ll stay in. He may become a service department manager. They make even more money.

But there are a lot of industries like that one that you wouldn’t know. I had no idea that a service advisor could make six figures and also that they were commissioned only. I mean, it’s crazy. But there’s a lot that you don’t know if you don’t explore.

So how do you suggest, Kerry, it’s based on your experience, how… young people, you know, before or after college can try to figure out what industries they’re most interested in.

Kerry
Well, I would recommend before or at least early on in college to explore more than, you know, after, after spending the hundred, hundred, hundred K. Yeah, we could have gotten away without spending that hundred K. So exploring, again, it’s not easy, but it’s fairly simple and straightforward. It’s doing things that may not be in someone’s comfort zone.

10:00
All the way through high school, people were given an assignment. Study, take a test, do a report, do an assignment, get an A. Life is good. Maybe do some extracurricular activities. Maybe join a sports team. it’s all pretty much spelled out for you.

So if you want to explore the work world, there isn’t a cookie cutter approach. It’s a bit of trial and error. We do have LinkedIn where I would encourage everybody, even in high school to get on LinkedIn and start networking and start exploring and have, get real conversations with real people. Everybody wants to be, you know, doing this with their phones.

Guess what? Use it the old fashioned way and make a phone call. You can connect with them digitally, you know, through LinkedIn or however, but explore and get in conversations with people, go meet with them either in person or through Zoom or something and find out what it’s really like. You would have found out if that existed back in the day, you would have found out what real life is as a DJ if you were able to do that exploration. We have so many ways to explore.

11:00
So anyway, LinkedIn is one, but friends, family, other social media networks actually make connections with people and talk with people. I just feel like the human contact, you know, we’re, I read something that says we’re digitally connected, but socially disconnected, socially isolated.

And I believe that, That is where young people are comfortable being digitally connected, but they’re socially isolated and they don’t have the same habits you and I were forced into.
You’d walk down the street and knock on the door and say, hey, you want to come out? Now it’s, you know, this on a phone. So, you know, it’s, it’s getting out, it’s, it’s some of it’s going back to, it’s using technology where it helps. But it’s, it’s doing some good old fashioned communication.

Lori:
And looking at your passions, what do you really love to do? I know I’m a social person. I’m so social that social media was just a natural thing for me to get into. I always loved to write. So I’m a writer. I’ve always been a writer in any job I had typically ended up handling the marketing too. Sio lots and lots of writing, wrote a book.

12:00
What do you think about tools like personality assessments and, you know, those kinds of things, the, like, what color is your parachute? I think is a book out there that still gets a lot of kudos for being a great tool for investigating what your personality and skills, how they match up with a particular industry or career, right? What do you think of the tools that are out there?

Kerry:
Well, uh, I believe, and even, even what colors your parachute, which is probably the longest standing, uh, best-selling career book that has actually changed over time. And the author, uh, Richard Bowles, I believe his name is, he actually says, take, you know, you can use some of these assessments, but don’t, um, rely a hundred percent on them. Don’t, don’t rely heavily on them. They give you some information, some general.

But he also advises to explore on your own because there’s a gap and there are a few reasons I wouldn’t put all my weight into the assessments. One, it’s a snapshot in time and our personalities and our interests change over time. It’s also based on theory anything based on theory it’s yes it’s based on statistics and behavior and surveys and other things, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to sync up with you I’m naturally an introvert and a very shy person I.

13:00
You know, those tests told me I should be behind a computer or in doing programming or something. But you know what? I also liked to teach and I was afraid to stand up in front of an audience until I took a Dale Carnegie class and it forced me to do it. And I found out, you know what? I love teaching. And I love getting in front of people and talking to them, but I was scared to death to do it.

So if I relied on an assessment, they would have told me, stay behind a computer, stay behind a screen, do something that is not with people because that’s my natural inclination. But once I was exposed to it, I enjoyed it it scared me yes it was uncomfortable yes but I learned to really love it.

I feel like and uh the author of what colors your parachute also agrees I’ve read the I’ve read many career books um that one included um that there’s some good information but it’s not the end all be all you need to explore yourself.

Lori:
I think StrengthsFinders is a really good one for anybody on the planet, basically, as soon as you’re old enough to take that one.

14:00
Not because it’s going to tell you what career you should explore, but because it will call out what your strengths are. What are you really good at? And I found it to be so accurate. It gives you five strengths. What are you really good at? And what happens, if nothing else, is you come out of that experience of taking this assessment and getting your results feeling really good about yourself. And there’s nothing wrong with feeling god about yourself and your unique skills. So I would highly recommend StrengthsFinders. I know there are all kinds of different tools out there.

A good career counselor is probably an even better option. Someone who can sit with you, ask you the questions like, do you like to make things with your hands? Are you a woodworking kind of person as a hobby, well, then maybe skilled trades would be a good place for you.

The Carpenter and Millwrights Union has an apprenticeship program. Maybe that’s something to explore. And just because you explore it doesn’t mean you have to stick with it your whole life. I have had three very distinct careers in my life. And Kerry, I’m assuming you have too, right? You’ve had more than one.

15:00
So let’s talk about what happens when the search gets really hard. How can someone, a young professional or young wants to be, you know, want to be professional, how can they keep their inspiration, their motivation, their resilience when they’re sending out resumes and trying to figure out nothing’s happening? Because that will happen. It will happen.

Kerry
Well, a couple things. You know, you said it’s hard. It’s nothing worth doing, I think, in life is easy. Everybody wants the easy button. So I think understanding that and expecting that there are going to be challenges along the way, expecting that and understanding that up front is part of it. Yes. And then also being able to control what you can control.

16:00
You said you sent out one hundred fifty, two hundred resumes back in the day. So if you flash forward to today, we don’t send out paper resumes and envelopes and lick the stamps anymore. But we make connections with people, whether it’s LinkedIn, phone, in person, whatever. it’s still a numbers game and it’s, you can’t get discouraged on one. You, you have to do them over time. And then again, you control what, how many people have you reached out to? How many interviews have you gone on?

You can’t control what they think, how they react. All you can control is what you can do. So if you say, oh, I sent out two resumes or I made two connection requests on LinkedIn, I made two phone calls. It’s not enough. It’s not enough. Or even I made a hundred, but nobody called me back.

17:00
Guess what sometimes people are busy and you follow up that’s another thing I don’t think people are used to okay oh you know what they’re automatically going to call me back I emailed them or I called them they’re not they’re busy call them again it takes persistence and yes It gets exhausting.

Yes, it gets discouraging. It’s difficult. Again, but it’s a good life lesson forever because it’s not a one and done thing. That is going to be the rest of your life. I’m experiencing it now. I’m making a bit of a change myself. And it’s, you know, it’s, I think… It’s exciting and discouraging at the same time. It’s challenging, but it’s, you take that, you take those, I say, I shouldn’t say discouraging.

18:00
You take those moments that are difficult and you look at them as learning experiences and say, okay, I need to strengthen that or maybe shift here, pivot here, whatever. But it’s just, it’s all a data point.

Lori:
And one of the biggest piece of advice I would give people is just keep going. Don’t stop. And you may have to take a bridge job. You may have to take like that or advertising job. I thought I would be there for six months. I needed revenue for my personal revenue. I needed a job. I needed insurance. I needed the things that come with a job. So I took it. Did I expect to like it?

19:00
I actually had gone into the meeting, the last meeting I had with David Laster, who was my boss, who was an amazing human being. And to tell him that I wasn’t taking the job, but I had connected with him. I’d had three interviews. I felt like I owed it to him to tell him in person.

And that shows you what a great boss he was because he had created a personal connection with me that I felt obligated that I had to go tell him in person and walked out of there with a job. It was like, what just happened? I’m so fortunate that that’s the way it worked out because the things that he taught me, I use every single day. And a lot of it is relationships. I’m going to kind of veer off of our outline here.

20:00
One of the things that I would suggest people do is find people in the industry that you think you’re interested in. For example, I was interested in broadcasting. And find people, connect with people either that you know or on LinkedIn that And ask for an informational interview.

I know, Kerry, you and I both, if somebody, some young person approached me on LinkedIn, nobody ever does. But if somebody did and said, hey, I would just like to talk to you about what your aspect of the business is like, I would take a twenty minute, thirty minute call happily. And you’ll find most people do because you will stand out by asking for something like that. You will appear to be more of a goal getter kind of person. And it’s really helpful.

21:00
You don’t know who they know either. So don’t hesitate to reach out. It’s part of being in a successful career is being fearless when it comes to making connections. And you might as well start now. Even if you’re scared to death, do it anyway. I mean, that’s one thing I always, I lived by the mantra when I was in my twenties, feel the fear and do it anyway. because it’s not going to kill you. At least it probably won’t kill you. I don’t know. Maybe it would.

But most cases, you’re not going to die because you picked up the phone or you sent an email and you asked somebody for something. Give them the opportunity to say no. Don’t say no for them. I learned that in my charitable work. Don’t say no for them. Let them say no, right?

22:00
Kerry:
Absolutely. And mentioning fear, anything new to us, It can be scary, and it usually is. But that fear gets magnified the longer we think about it, the longer we overanalyze it. Once you take the action, that fear gets reduced. And the more action you take, that fear gets reduced and reduced and reduced to zero.

Lori
Until it’s just what you do.

Kerry
Exactly. And I’m glad you brought up the informational interviews. That’s kind of what I was leaning toward when I said make connections and conversations. I think you’re actually more apt to get a job in that route, being proactive when talking with people and creating relationships.

23:00
Most jobs are hired from people who know people. If you get to know more people, whether they have an opening or not, they will refer you to somebody else when they hear of an opening. So the side door, the stepping stone jobs, that’s more likely to happen than Going to a job posting and saying, oh, there’s my perfect job. I’m going to apply for it and get it. Be proactive. Talk to people before the job is posted.

Lori:
Yep. And I’ve, I mean, how many people have you heard that are C-level executives or, you know, on the board of these major organizations and they started out as the receptionist or the mailroom? There’s a reason they talk, you know, maybe they don’t talk about it as much as they used to, but the mailroom used to be a really big deal.

24:00
Mailroom was like the entry level position and those entry level spots, even if they aren’t exactly what you want to do, will get you in the door. And that’s part one. I mean, that’s the most important step is getting in to the industry that you think you might want to be in and playing around a little bit, seeing what, what you might be able to create.

So anything else that you would offer encouragement or anything else, Kerry, resources, let me know. What do you think?

25:00
Kerry
I will do that. Well, I think I’m actually creating a pool of resources at thecareerdad.com. And there are good books. There are good tools out there.

But I guess I would like to add an interesting little story since you mentioned the mailroom. I got my under undergraduate degree in marketing. So I wanted to go into marketing. My first job was Coca-Cola in marketing and I hated it.

So I worked there for a couple of years and thought marketing’s not for me. So I went back to school, got my MBA in finance. And while I was interviewing for jobs at financial firms, I worked in the mailroom at an ad agency because I knew the people there. And I was just part-time. I was working in the mailroom.

26:00
They made a joke, MBA, mailboy always. I was working in the mailroom with an MBA in finance. That’s great. And one of the vice presidents pulled me aside and said, Kerry, what are you doing interviewing these finance companies? He said, you don’t belong in finance. You belong in advertising and marketing. He says, we don’t have anything here because I’m going to set you up with an interview with a friend of mine at Donor Advertising. Would you go over there and talk with them? And I said, sure. I went over there, got a job. I never ended up in finance.

Lori
That’s awesome.
Kerry
The mailroom is where things start sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

27:00
Lori
And even the proverbial mailroom. Right. Which I’m not really sure what that means now. What is what is the mailroom now? It might be like an coordinator or a junior project manager. I mean, you just never know.

But I would like to just encourage you, if you are in that place where you’re in your twenties, you can’t find that that career path that you thought would be easy. Keep going. Consider bringing in a career coach. Consider, you know, really studying up on how to find that perfect career. Google is your friend. I would even say chat GPT is a great place to look for options.

28:00
If you do your strengths finder and you find that you have these five particular strengths. I would drop them into chat GPT and say, Hey, what job would I be great for with these five strengths and see what it says, but just continue to explore. Don’t give up. You will land in a great place. So any last words of wisdom, Kerry?

Kerry
I just, I’d like to echo your advice there and all of those things were great advice, but then if chat GPT or somebody points you in a direction, then you, reach out to somebody and actually talk with them and get that informational interview. Find out from their perspective what their day-to-day life is. And if you can shadow them for a day or they become a mentor, they’re happy to talk to you.

29:00
More people are happy to help you help young people out than you think. Yeah, they’ll make time. They will make time. Yes, exactly. And just don’t think you’re going to find that perfect job. You’re going to find something that’s a good fit for that, for that point in time. And then you’re going to grow and you’re going to learn and you’re going to probably adapt and change.
So yeah, nothing’s forever.

And have those twelve jobs before your thirties. Right. So it really, it does. We all have lots of them. We all have lots of them. So that’s what we’ve got for you today.

30:00
. Please visit my website at workmomsays.com. That’s where the podcast lives. You can go all the way back to the early silly episodes. They were really fun. We’re a little more serious now. And I also have a contact form there., If you have a particular question you’d like me to answer, a guest you’d like to suggest, or any other things that you might want to talk to me about, please get in touch with me there.

I am also an open networker on LinkedIn at Lori Jo Vest. And Kerry, you’re an open networker too, am I correct? Absolutely. Awesome. So catch up with us there. And thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Kerry. Thank you, Lori.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 40: Finding The Right Career Path appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

It’s never too early to start building a solid career, so Work Mom is sharing a few key ways to jumpstart your career BEFORE you get into the workforce. From joining professional student organizations to being a continuous learner to finding a strong, intergenerational network of peers and mentors, there are tons of ways to start your career right now.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

1:00 – Getting involved = getting your foot in the door: Joining professional student organizations for your industry is a game-changer for finding internships, mentors, and opportunities.

1:45 – LinkedIn. LinkedIn. LinkedIn.: Start your LinkedIn account by your third year and connect with any adult you know. You never know who could connect you with your first opportunity.

4:00 – The power of intergenerational networking: When you form close connections with peers with decades of experience, you can ask them for advice or even a new opportunity when things go wrong.

6:30 – Reluctant networkers unite: If you’re introverted or just hate networking, check out our recent interview with the Reluctant Networker Greg Peters for his foolproof ways to get the most out of networking.

8:30 – Be a continuous learner: Learning about business etiquette, behavior, and mindset will get you far. From there, continue learning everything you can to elevate your skills, abilities, and emotional intelligence.

1:00 – When you get to campus, you should start looking into student trade organizations and get involved. It will have you meeting people who are in your field, your peers, and leaders in the industry.

2:00 – It’s not a bad idea to connect with your parents and your parents’ friends, uncles, or aunts. Anybody you know who’s an adult in business will help you grow your network on LinkedIn.

3:00 – “In the Women’s Ad Club, I found a group of women that, when things were going sideways, I could go to and say, “What do you guys do when this happens?” I mean, I was twenty-three, twenty-four years old, and some women in their fifties had great answers for me.”

6:00 – “When I got my pay cut, I got home, picked up the phone, and called a couple of my girlfriends…I was employed within two weeks, moved right into that new job, never got laid off, and recovered from that bit of early career trauma without a lot of muss and fuss because I knew people.”

8:30 – “When you’re a continuous learner, you’ll move more, you’ll learn more, you’ll meet more people. Your career will continue to elevate. You’ll elevate your skills, your abilities, and your emotional intelligence.“

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:00
Hello, I’m Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot. Today, we’re going to talk about things you can do while you’re still in college and immediately afterwards to really jumpstart your career. Most of us pick an industry. We try to get into it, but we pick the industry while we’re in college.

So while you’re still in college, get some experience in your industry—a couple of things. If you’re not a club joiner, start joining those clubs. Most industries do have student chapters of their major trade organizations. There are ad clubs, if that’s your thing. There are manufacturing clubs, there are engineering clubs.

Most of the universities and colleges will have organizations that are student chapters of national professional organizations. As soon as you get to campus, you should start looking into those specific organizations and get involved. It will have you meeting people that are in your field, your peers, as well as people that are leaders in the industry.

01:00
And it will help you maintain and get access to internships, student apprenticeships, opportunities that you may not hear about if all you’re doing is going to class, taking your finals, writing your papers, doing your productions, whatever it is, and going home, you really want to use that extracurricular time, at least the last two years that you’re there, to grow your reputation, grow your skills, add to your resume, and make connections. That’s number one.

Number two, start your LinkedIn account while you’re still in college. Again, by your third year, you should be putting up a LinkedIn account, putting in volunteer things that you’ve done, jobs you’ve had, making sure your resume is there.

Make sure you use industry keywords. I mean, if you Google how to prepare and present a solid LinkedIn profile, you will find some great advice there. So I won’t go too deep into it here. But there are experts you can follow.

Get on LinkedIn, start using it, start connecting with people you know. And I’m going to tell you, it’s not a bad idea to connect with your parents and your parents’ friends, uncles, aunts, anybody that you know that’s an adult in business will help you grow your network on LinkedIn. It’s a great place to start looking for internships, micro internships, things like that. So make sure you are on LinkedIn.

02:00
Now, when you are just getting out of college, stick with that approach of being involved in organizations and staying on the business social media. Because once you get out of college, you can actually join the professional organizations.

And I’ll tell you a story. When I first got into the advertising business, which is what I do now, I had a boss that told me that I needed to join two or three of the local trade organizations. There were a couple of different ad clubs. There was a women’s ad club. There was the Adcraft Club of Detroit. And then there were some marketing communication type organizations.

And I joined three different ones and I went to their meetings and I got on their committees. I think I even served on the board. I think when I was twenty seven or twenty eight, I was president of the Detroit chapter of the Women’s Advertising Club because I started right out of college.

I did their newsletter. I did, I served on committees. I actually, you know, created events and worked as a volunteer. And I built up a lot of skills. I grew my writing skills. I grew my production skills. And then I could put together a newsletter, my interview skills because I’d interview people. I also learned how to network effectively.

03:00
And it gave me a group of people in the Women’s Ad Club in particular, It gave me a group of women that when things were going sideways, I could go to them and say, what do you guys do when this happens? I mean, I was twenty-three, twenty-four years old and there were women that were in their fifties that had great answers for me.

I remember at one point, I was getting somewhat sexually harassed by a client, and I had no idea what to say. And back then it was a little it was something that you didn’t want to even acknowledge had happened because as a woman, you felt like you may have somehow contributed to it. That’s the way we were socialized. We were socialized that way, trust me. The eighties and nineties were not so good for women’s growth and development. It was a really difficult time, but I didn’t want to talk to my boss or much less the client.

04:00
So I had a group of women that were thirty years older than me that were able to give me advice on how to handle it with finesse in a way that wouldn’t get me in trouble, that wouldn’t alienate the client, that would put distance between me and the client. And that would allow me to continue to work in a professional fashion without being sidelined by somebody else’s behavior.

So those kinds of things are really, really important. So I cannot overestimate the power of going to events and volunteering for committees, getting involved in organizations as soon as you get out of college and stick with it. Join the committees, go to all the meetings, really get to know the people in that group.

And the other advantage I’ll tell you about that I will never forget is when you’re networking like that, if something bad happens, you have the ability to ask those people, something happens at your job. You, you know, you’re going to get laid off.

05:00
You can call them and say, Hey, you know, our company’s going down. Something really strange is happening. And, and we’re, you know, they’re, we hear they’re cutting the payroll budget and, You know, that kind of thing. You can call your friends that you met in your networking groups and say, hey, I’m looking for a new position.

I had to do that once. I took a new job. I was recruited by a headhunter, which kind of implies that the company has some money because headhunters are not cheap. And within six weeks on the job, we heard the major financial partner was coming in and cutting budget because we were in a massive sales slump and that he was going to start with payroll.

Now, what that means is they’re going to start cutting pay. And he went person to person to person all day one day and told us each how much less we were going to be worth when we came in the next morning. And it was between twenty and thirty percent. It was incredibly painful for everyone that was on that team.

06:00
However, I was able to when I got my pay cut, got home, picked up the phone, called a couple of my girlfriends. And one of them said, hey, Tom’s looking for somebody just like you at this other facility in town. And I was able to go over there. I was employed within two weeks, moved right into that new job, never got laid off and was able to really recover from that bit of, you know, early career trauma. without a lot of muss and fuss because I knew people.

Now, if you’re an introvert, then you want to go back and listen to the, there’s an earlier episode of Work Mom Says at workmomsays.com about networking. If you are an introvert and networking scares the hell out of you, get a partner, network with someone else, look for a friend that will go with you, plan out your networking, practice your networking.

07:00
Do it regularly. Go to luncheons. Go to dinners. Go to breakfast. Go to coffee. Go to events. And learn how to network by actually networking. And what will happen is you’ll figure out that there are things that you can say that light people up, things that you can say that people are immediately more interested in what you’re saying if you drop the line or two, you know, that you’ll figure out what it is that you say that has people perking up and paying attention.

And networking is really not that hard. It might feel like it, but it really isn’t, especially if you can partner network with someone. That makes it one hundred fifty thousand times easier. So, another suggestion is partner networking and other things that you can do after just getting out of college.

Study business etiquette. Look into EQ, how you should perform while you’re at work, how you should think about your work. Read career books and career advice because it will help you see things in a way that you may not just coming out of college.

08:00
And there is a certain way that you should be looking at work. It’s different than college. It’s different than your McDonald’s job or whatever job you did while you were in high school, babysitting, nannying, whatever it is. The business realm is much, much different.

So you want to make sure that you spend some time studying and learning what that business etiquette is so that you are able to present as the best possible image for yourself and be the best possible person.

So that’s the last thing I’ll tell you here is to be a continuous learner. And the first thing you should start with is basic business etiquette, behavior, and mindset. And those topics will get you really far.

09:00
And from there, just recycle, you know, what do they say? Lather, rinse, repeat, keep doing it over and over. You’ll move more, you’ll learn more, you’ll meet more people. And and your career will continue to elevate. You’ll elevate your skills, your abilities, and your emotional intelligence.

So that’s what I’ve got for you today. I hope you enjoyed it. Please visit my website at workmomsays.com. If you’re interested in having me interview someone or you think you have a great topic that I should cover, I’d love to hear from you.

10:00
I also have a YouTube channel, Work Mom Says, where I have daily videos that are the chapters of my book, Work Mom Says Don’t Be an Idiot, Thirty-Eight Lessons You Don’t Want to Learn the Hard Way. So go over to YouTube, hit the subscribe button. Have a look at what I’ve got going over there. And we’d love to see you there as well.

Again, if you have any ideas for subjects or any questions, I’d love to hear from you in the comments there as well. So that’s what I’ve got for you. Have a great day. Know that Work Mom is here for you. You can do this. Take care.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 39: Kick-Starting Your Career When You’re Just Starting Out appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

Shit happens at work, but what matters most is how well you handle situations that go horribly wrong. Work Mom shares her step-by-step approach for effectively addressing and solving workplace mishaps.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

1:00: Facts ONLY: First, do a factual audit of what happened, and calmly get all the facts without blaming anyone or being overly dramatic. During this stage, you’ll also identify the right person to manage the situation, whether that’s you, your boss, or a coworker.

2:00: Honestly is always the best policy: Once you have all the facts, admit what happened to the impacted party as soon as possible. Express your regret and move to a solution mindset.

4:00: Making good: Whenever you mess up, always work with the impacted party to figure out how to make it right.

5:30: Post-mortem: Once the situation has been resolved and everyone is calm, get the group together and go over what happened. Ask what happened, how we solved it, what we can do in the future to avoid a repeat, etc.

2:00:  In my experience, the best possible thing you can do is throw yourself at someone’s mercy. Own up to what happened as soon as you possibly can. Tell the truth in all of its gory detail. 

4:30: You have to come up with a way to make good. When you mess something up, it’s best to work with the person on the receiving end of that problem, the one that was impacted, and work together to figure out what to do to fix it. 

5:40: It will serve you on a personal level to follow those steps. It will serve you on a business level to follow those steps. You can be the leader in solving problems by being an honest, authentic, open, and apologetic person. 

6:00: So when something really horrible happens, tell yourself right away, well, here’s my opportunity to practice how to handle difficult situations because you will experience many difficult situations in your career. 

6:30: You go at it with a collaborative approach. armed with your intention to solve the problem and to prevent it from happening again, and you will be better off.

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

00:00
Hello, everyone. I’m Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot. Today, we are going to talk about what to do when things go horribly wrong, and they will.

They may go horribly wrong in the context of you making a horrible mistake and having to own up to it and figure out how to solve it. They may go wrong in the context of one of your coworkers doing something that they made a big mistake and you’re the one that gets to deal with it with the customer.

A delivery that was supposed to get to the company didn’t make it on time. Something got broken, somebody, you know, something got broadcast that maybe was inappropriate.

Basically, shit happens, and you may get stuck in the firestorm of that shit. It happens at the office. It will happen to you. It happens to everybody. So accept that. And if it hasn’t happened to you yet, it will. So go ahead and accept the fact that it will happen and get to solving it.

01:00
So when something goes horribly wrong, one of the first things I advise people to do is to take a serious review of what the current situation is with no emotions. What are the facts? What happened?

And in a work environment, sometimes there are cultures where people like to blame each other. We don’t blame. What you want to do is you want to figure out what happened and maybe why. But quickly, when it first happens, you have to get about solving it as well. So you get everybody together. You figure out what the facts are, what happened and why.

And then you figure out who the right person is to manage the challenge. If it’s just you and you made a mistake and you’re talking to your boss, that’s going to be a different type of response than if it’s your whole team that made a mistake or you’ve got a whole team that’s responsible for something. And maybe your boss is the right person to manage that, or maybe you are. So, if it’s just you, you have to own up to something that happened.

02:00
In my experience, the best possible thing you can do is throw yourself at someone’s mercy. Own up to what happened as soon as you possibly can. Tell the truth in all of its gory detail. Express your feelings and emotions. Usually that means you’re regretful. I am so sorry. Here’s what happened and why.

And then ask, how can we make this right? What would you like to do to help solve this problem? How can we fix this for you? How can I make good on this thing that I did that may not have been suited to the company or the mistake that I made? And you want to avoid accusing or blaming anybody.

One of the most important things to do is do again, a factual audit of what happened. And then you’re going to move to solutions pretty quickly. So you move to solution mindset and go, okay, what can we do to fix this?

03:00
And I’ll give you an example here. My husband is a regular customer of a particular store brand. And they give him points based on how much he buys. And then he can take those points and turn them into dollars off of a future purchase. And he got to the point with this particular brand where he was so excited that he was almost up to $100 in his points. And he was like super excited about it.

So he went online this morning to shop. And he saw that, oh, guess what? We got bought by another company. And now we’ve changed our rewards, our point system, our customer rewards program. And now you only have less than $50 in your rewards account. no notice, nothing.

So he calls the store, the retail store, and they say, Oh, we got bought. There’s nothing we can do, but here’s who you can call and get in touch with her email. So he sends an email to the, you know, the company that bought the smaller organization and they got back to him with an email that said, Oh, Well, here’s our new customer rewards program. In case you don’t understand it, please contact somebody at the retail store.

04:00
Well, the person at the retail store, all they could say was that company, you know, the ownership said this was our new program. And all the ownership said was go to the retailer and they’ll tell you about our new program. So he was completely frustrated and mad and ready to take all of his, you know, sizable purchases moving forward to a different store.

And that makes sense. They don’t know how to handle an angry customer. They don’t know how to handle a mistake. It was a mistake to change the rewards program. So every loyal customer lost. And not announce it ahead of time. Now, they made that mistake worse by not owning it and making good.

You have to come up with a way to make good. When you mess something up, it’s best to work with the person on the receiving end of that problem, the one that was impacted, and work together to figure out what to do to fix it. Well, what would you like me to do to make this right? And that’s going to vary by situation.

05:00
So when things go horribly wrong, honesty is the best policy, always. Keeping your cool and talking specifically in facts is number two. Not blaming anyone is number three. That means you look for the facts, you find out what worked and what didn’t work. You don’t go, whose fault was this? Number four, you get to solving the problem, preferably collaboratively with the person that was most impacted by the problem.

And then number five, it’s always good to do what they call a post-mortem, which is when you look at what happened, everybody’s calm. You don’t wait too long because you don’t want people’s memories to fail. But you give it a couple of days and then you get the whole group together and go, all right, that’s behind us now. What happened? How can we solve it? Is everybody okay? What can we do better next time?

And it will serve you on a personal level to follow those steps. It will serve you on a business level to follow those steps. And you can be the leader in solving problems by being that honest, authentic, open, apologetic person. There are a lot of people that don’t know how to do that or they don’t understand the importance of it. The only way you get better at it, at dealing with problems, being authentic, being truthful, going into problem solving mode is through practice.

06:00
So when something really horrible happens, tell yourself right away, well, here’s my opportunity to practice how to handle difficult situations because you will experience many difficult situations in your career.

So this is a real short episode, but I just wanted to get that out there. When things go horribly wrong, there are specific steps you can take. You go at it with a collaborative approach. armed with your intention to solve the problem and to prevent it from happening again, and you will be better off.

And the more it happens, the better off you’ll be, the more you’ll know about how to be that creative problem solver that can go into challenging situations when things go horribly wrong. make it come out on the other side in a way that’s positive and everyone learns from it. So that’s what I’ve got for you today.

07:00
If you are listening on one of the podcast platforms, please drop me some stars. I’d love to hear from you there as well. So drop me some stars, and some comments, and also visit my website at workmomsays.com. We have blogs there. We have the entire catalog of all of our episodes, even the first silly ones where all we did was laugh. Then we got a little bit more serious and we hope to give you some really solid advice.

So go to workmomsays.com. I have a contact form there. I would love to hear from you. Tell me who you’d like to have on the show, what topics you’d like me to cover, what questions you have, and reach out to me.

I’m also on LinkedIn as an open networker. So Lori Jo Vest on LinkedIn, I would love to hear from you. Just make mention that you are a listener to the podcast.

08:00
And I also have a YouTube channel where I’m going through right now, 38 days of work mom. And so it’s every chapter in my work mom says, don’t be an idiot book. here available on Amazon. There’s videos on each of the chapters on YouTube. I’m kind of right in the middle of creating that series.

So look for it there, subscribe on YouTube, like my videos, comment, give me some love there as well. And I’ll be back with more helpful, useful information for young professionals very soon. Take care.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 38 – When Things Go Horribly Wrong appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

In the latest episode, join Work Mom Lori Jo Vest for a special conversation about mental toughness with chef, influencer, and healthy cooking coach Jacqueline Laurencelle. They will discuss the many benefits of mental toughness and ways to build it, and they will recommend a few resources to help you get started.

Expert Guest: Jacqueline Laurencelle

What She Does: Jacqueline is a classically French-trained Chef, social media influencer, and healthy cooking coach. She’s on a mission to make healthy cooking accessible, fun, sexy, and delicious through her wellness brand and her TV show, Jacqueline Cooks!

Connect: You can find her on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and her website.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

2:00 – Start of her journey: While walking down the stairs during a fire evacuation, Jacqueline experienced so much pain that she wasn’t sure she could get to the bottom. This prompted her to start working out for her health, which kickstarted her journey.
7:00 – What is mental toughness: It is choosing to do difficult things to increase your capacity for resilience
11:00 – Benefits of mental toughness: It will help you tolerate failure, reduce your anxiety, and fear, and help you embrace and overcome obstacles.
16:00 – Motivation vs discipline: Discipline is more important than motivation because with discipline, you will just go do it. If you’re waiting to get motivated, you’ll wait forever.
20:30 – Tools for building mental toughness: Build habits and a morning routine that you will commit to and can do every day. Whether it’s doing the morning pages, affirmations, gratitude journaling, or starting your day with a workout, find what works for you and stick to it.
32:00 – Lessons: Instead of wallowing when something negative happens, mental toughness helps you swap your mindset to “what can we learn from this experience?”

8:10 – Mental toughness is choosing to do things that are difficult, that are good for you, in order to expand your capacity for resilience.
11:00 – It’s cyclical. The more mental toughness you get, the more tenacious you’ll get. The more you tolerate failure, the more mentally tough you get. The more mentally tough you get, the more you can tolerate failure.
11:50 – I can promise you that the more mentally tough you get, the less anxiety and fear you will have. It won’t just help you push past it. It will help it decrease in your life.
16:35 – If you respect yourself, that’s what self-love is. And doing things that are good for you is what brings those things about.
17:00 – Your current situation is exactly what you’re committed to because you’re doing everything that supports your current situation.
20:40 – So I started super beginner so I wouldn’t get sore and ease into it. And then I just started to feel better because more endorphins were happening. So humbling myself a little bit, and really starting at the beginning was a crucial tool.
22:30 – I also made a decision to let go of being a victim…Like I got this one life to live and what am I going to do with it? I got to go out and do something. I can’t just sit here and exist anymore. I can’t do it.
24:00 – I’ve decided that in order to build a strong habit, I’m going to have to push really hard at first and do it every day so that it feels weird not to do it.
29:30 – You can act yourself into a better way of thinking, and think yourself into a better way of acting. So if you’re in doubt, take action.
30:45 – Choose your hard.
32:00 – Mental toughness is also about learning to see life from the perspective of what are the lessons I’m learning that will help me be a better person?
34:00 – Recognize that wallowing in the past or worrying about the future is where all the pain is. The present is the only thing you have any control over anyway.

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

Find the resources that Jacqueline mentioned in the episode below: 

0:00

Hello, everybody. I’m Lori Jo Vest. I so appreciate you joining us for this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot. Today, we are talking to one of my dear friends, Jacqueline Laurencelle on the subject of mental toughness. 

Jacqueline is what I would call: she’s exploding onto the scene as a social media influencer and healthy cooking coach. She’s working on a television series. She’s got all kinds of wonderful things going on and a fabulous transformation story that has her talking about mental toughness, which I know is important in the business world. 

If you cannot buck up and handle what’s happening in a way that’s non-emotional, if you can’t get your stuff done because you can’t hold yourself together to do it, you will not be successful. It will impact your success. So this is a really important subject and one of my favorites. So Jacqueline, welcome to the show. Tell us a little about yourself.

1:00 Jacqueline –  Hi, Lori. Thank you so much for having me. Hello, everyone. As she said, my name is Jacqueline Laurencelle. I hail from the Detroit area of Michigan. I grew up outside of Detroit, and I now live in Chicago. I am a classically French-trained chef, which was actually a second career for me. I originally worked in social work and pastoral ministry and then decided that I wanted to do something a little more creative. 

And so the work that I’m getting ready to do now with the show that you mentioned and my social media and health and wellness transformation coaching will bring all of those things together in my life. So I’m very excited about all of the things that the future holds. 

2:00 Lori – Oh, it’s been an amazing thing to watch over the last three or four months as this has been coming together and You’re on TikTok and Instagram and all the different channels. So tell us why you are on this journey. When and how did it start? 

Jacqueline – Sure. It was the day before my 52nd birthday, which was about 14 months ago now. And there was a fire in the condo building that I lived in. And when we were evacuated, I had to walk down 20 flights of stairs with two dogs and a backpack. and I have to be honest I was pretty uh confident overly confident like oh I can do this because I had also packed a suitcase and I thought well I’ll take the dogs first and drop off the backpack which had all the valuables and the passports and the cash and all that kind of stuff I’ll drop that off and then I’ll go back up and get my suitcase. 

3:00 Yeah. About five floors into going down the stairs, I was in a lot of pain. I was hurting. I couldn’t breathe. I was a mess. And I was like thinking to myself, I just want to get down. I don’t even know if I’m able to get down these stairs. Like what am I going to do? I have to get down. And because there’s no one coming to get me, right? There’s no elevator. There’s no option. The only way I’m getting out is to walk down these stairs. 

So I got to the bottom barely and I was in so much pain and I could barely walk. And I was about 100 pounds overweight. And I just something happened inside me that day of like something has to change. I’m not getting any younger. I can’t keep going on like this. It was like for the first time it really became not about vanity anymore and just about like I have to be able to function in my life. 

And so that kind of started, that was a little spark or the catalyst or that thing that happens in your life, an event that happens that you say to yourself, okay, something needs to be different. I need to do things differently. 

4:00 Lori: So that’s really the story of how it got started. Right. And how’s it going? 

Jacqueline: Yeah. Well, I was going to say within, it took a couple of weeks for me to kind of pull everything together. And I just started and I promised myself I was going to start working out. And I said, even if I never lose a pound, I have to start working out for my health, for my aging, you know, muscle mass, all of that. So it has now been 14 months and I’m down 85 pounds. 

Lori: Awesome. That’s amazing. That’s tough. That is tough. 

Jacqueline: It is, but for the first time in my life, it’s not as hard as it used to be. And I think a lot of it comes to the topic of what we’re talking about today, which is the fact that throughout this process, I have been building mental toughness. So I have to say it is easier than it was when I started. And now that I see it as a lifestyle and I see it as there is no end game. 

5:00 People keep asking me like, what’s my goal weight? I don’t have one. I don’t know what that is. And I don’t care what the number on the scale says. I care that when I get to whatever that goal is, a weight goal, it’ll be the next goal, right? What’s my flexibility? Can I do a handstand? Can I, whatever, whatever it’s going to be, you know, that I realized it’s just, it’s not about going on or off a diet. It really is about figuring out how to make this my life so that I can live a better life. And mental toughness was a huge part of it. 

Lori: I think mental toughness, tell me if I’m wrong, but a lot of times when you’re starting a great big transformation journey like that, a lot of us want to do that. But to start part of that mental toughness is in the support you put around yourself, right? 

Jacqueline: You know, it’s interesting. I don’t really feel like I had a lot of support. Yeah. And I didn’t. And I’m one of those people, because I had gained and lost weight so many times. And let’s be honest, weight is a very public, visual issue. 

6:00 So you can’t hide it. And I had gained and lost weight, lost and gained weight back so many times. I wasn’t going to tell anybody because I, I didn’t, I didn’t want to go through the humiliation again of, and also I’m a little superstitious of like, okay, don’t want to jinx it. 

Lori: Love that. Love that. I’m the same way. 

Jacqueline: Yeah. So I was like, I’m just going to do my thing. So I started and I lost about 20 pounds on my own. And then I found a program and I have a code, you know, I have an online coach and there’s weekly zoom calls and, And there’s a big group of ladies and we support each other. So I did get support from them once I would say I got started. 

But in my regular life, I just kind of decided to just keep it quiet and not really talk about it because I feel like I wanted to because I realized it wasn’t really about that. It was just about me trying to figure it out for myself. But that’s what I would say where. um yes the group of women that I ended up being supported by definitely helped to promote me and motivate me.

7:00 But I i do think mental toughness though in many ways is a solo journey you have to put the work in daily for yourself and no one can do it for you and no matter how many great quotes you get and I believe me I am following all of them on instagram and get 50 of them a day and they’re great And that’s wonderful for a second. It makes you feel good. But you still got to put in the work every day to get mentally stronger. 

Lori: Absolutely. So let’s talk about what is mental toughness. Now, I think of it as, you know, I looked it up and I tried to find like, what is it? And there’s a lot of different facets to it. What first came up was the word grit. which I think is kind of cool. But how do you define it? 

Jacqueline: I define mental toughness as… Okay, so… I was having this conversation with someone about resilience versus mental toughness and are they the same thing? And I said, I think resilience is your ability to handle when something in life unexpected happens to you. How resilient you are is your ability to get through it, handle it.

8:00 But mental toughness for me is choosing to do things that are difficult in order to expand your capacity for resilience. So let me say that again. 

Lori: Okay, say it again. 

Jacqueline: Mental toughness is choosing to do things that are difficult, that are good for you, in order to expand your capacity for resilience. 

Lori: Okay. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. 

Jacqueline: So that’s why, you know, people laugh at me, but I do cold plunges. That’s why I get up at four o’clock in the morning that I did not used to do. And I do my books every day. I don’t want to get up at four o’clock in the morning. Who wants to get up at four o’clock in the morning? Especially when it’s zero out. I live in Chicago. Nobody. 

9:00 But here’s the thing. By doing that every day, because then, because with that time, I’m investing in me. I’m doing meditation. I’m reading things that are expanding my mind and challenging me to grow and doing journaling. And then I go and do my workouts. I don’t want to do my workout every morning at 5 or 5.30. Nope. Not interested. But that’s how you gain mental toughness.

And that expands your capacity resilience so that when life punches you in the face, because it will, it’s going to punch everybody in the face. Just a little side note, anybody who believes that life is fair, you were lied to. Whoever told you that, lied. Lied, lied, lied. Life is not fair. It’s not designed to be fair. And we shouldn’t even be trying to make it fair. It’s just not how it works. It’s how we are resilient or mentally tough enough to gain a larger capacity for resilience, be able to handle it and move forward. So that’s what I would say my definition of mental toughness is. 

10:00 Lori: I love it. I love it. A couple other things that came up in looking up the definition was the ability to persevere despite obstacles, which means if you get up and you have a little cold, you still work out. 

Jacqueline: I would say embrace your obstacles. Yeah. I would say the more mentally tough you are, the more you will embrace obstacles and actually not see, you’re not necessarily always going to seek them out, but you’re going to not be afraid of them or run away from them. 

Lori: Exactly. Like I think of myself, I broke my ankle about three years ago, getting the mail, went out to the mailbox, broke my ankle. And the first thing I asked the doctor after I got the boot is how soon can I ride the Peloton? Because I got myself a Peloton five years ago, and part of my happiness is getting on that bike. And I knew if I could push past it, I rode that thing with a boot. It was great. It was fine. I didn’t stand up, but I rode it with a boot. 

11:00 Being able to tolerate failure. Yep. Fear and anxiety, refusing to give in until you succeed, like continuing day after day toward your goal. All of those things require mental toughness, right? 

Jacqueline: They do. And it’s one of those things where it’s cyclical. Like the more mental toughness you get, the more tenacious you’ll get. The more you tolerate failure, the more mentally tough you get. The more mentally tough you get, the more you can tolerate failure. 

And the other thing about fear and anxiety, because we know that the younger generation really struggles with a lot of anxiety. And what I would say is the more mentally tough… Mental toughness is a choice. You choose… to make yourself mentally tougher. You choose to do hard things when you don’t want to. That is what will make you mentally tougher. 

And I can promise you that the more mentally tough you get, the less anxiety and fear you will have. It won’t just help you push past it. It will help it decrease in your life. 

12:00 Yeah. That’s huge. And I don’t think people are told that. I think they’re just trying to constantly manage anxiety and not realize you can actually lessen it. 

Lori: Absolutely. And honestly, this isn’t a therapy show. However, if you are suffering with a lot of fear and anxiety, there are therapists out there that can really help you. There’s a lot to be done. So if you suffer it and you can’t get past it with mental toughness, know that sometimes you’ll need a little help. 

Cognitive-based therapy, talk therapy, some of that kind of thing is really important and will help you push through those kind of things that are brought on by either trauma, medical conditions, that kind of thing. your day-to-day fear and anxiety yeah push through it 

Jacqueline: Can I add to that though, with my social work background I would say that I would also add yes do not um avoid or uh therapy like I I’m a huge supporter of therapy but I would say it’s a both and not an either or. 

13:00 So you need to go to therapy and you need to go out and take a walk every day, even if it’s for 15 minutes, breathe some fresh air, take some deep breaths, get the sugar and processed food out of your diet. Like those things affect your hormones and your hormones are what affect your anxiety. It’s all together. It’s not one or the other, either or. And they’re not separate there. They really are connected. So do both. Do all the above.

Lori: I have I worked with a guy who had some severe anxiety and he went to a therapist who sent him to a psychiatrist who told him to stop drinking coffee. He stopped drinking coffee and the anxiety went away. So there’s things that you can do. And, you know, if it’s constant, get some help. 

Jacqueline: Yeah. It’s all of the above. 

Lori: Absolutely. Get help and keep doing those things that help you build that mental toughness. Exactly. 

14:00 So how do you build mental toughness? You’ve done this. You’ve gone from, you know, from, like you said, being a lot more… I was 236 pounds. A lot more difficult for you to do what you needed to do. So how did you build the mental toughness that took you to where you are today? 

Jacqueline: Well, I would say creating a routine and sticking to it. And the thing is, is keeping your word to yourself. We… people so often we talk about you know keep your word to other people right when you say you’re going to do something do it but it’s amazing particularly women how we just don’t think it’s worth it we don’t think we’re important enough to keep our word to ourselves and here’s the thing if you don’t keep your word to yourself that means ultimately you don’t respect yourself right.

 And so when you start to keep your word to yourself, which is, again, doing what you don’t want to do, but it’s good for you. It’s doing things you don’t want to do that are good for you and not doing things that are bad for you when you really want to do them. Even when they’re fun. The strength, my coach often says, the strength is in the restraint. It’s in the restraint. 

15:00 And so when there are things that you know you really shouldn’t be doing for yourself, like you don’t need that second piece of cake. Or maybe that day you don’t need a piece of cake at all because you had a piece of cake the day before. That’s the restraint. 

Or the idea of there’s freedom in the structure. He says that too. There’s freedom in structure. So creating structure for yourself. And I struggle with that because I am like a fly by the seat of her pants kind of girl. And structure has always felt very like suffocating. Yeah. But I realized by balancing having some structure, and it’s helped me accomplish a lot more. So that builds discipline and discipline. 

16:00 I just talked about this the other day in my stair chat about motivation versus discipline. And the truth is discipline is more important than motivation. Now if you’re waiting to get motivated, you’re gonna be waiting a real long time. You just have to go out and do it even when you don’t want to do it which is what discipline is and then that builds the mental toughness and then the motivation comes because then you start to see results. You start to feel better about yourself. You start to have some self-respect And you don’t want to give that up. 

Once you start to really feel that and feel, to me, self-love is really about self-respect. If you respect yourself, that’s what self-love is. And doing things that are good for you is what brings those things about. 

Lori: Yeah. I know we’re reading a book in our book club by Benjamin Hardy, and he talks about how your current situation is what you are committed to. Interesting. Your current situation is exactly what you’re committed to because you’re doing everything that supports your current situation. 

17:00 So if you’re committed to something else, well, then you need to give up some of your current habits and things to get to that space. And this applies in all kinds of things. It’s not just weight loss or healthy living. It can be getting that degree. Like maybe you’ve been out of college for five or six years and you really want to get your master’s. Start now. The most important thing you can do is start. 

Jacqueline: And I struggle with that. Like I have to have the perfect conditions or I’m like, I can’t do it. And then I’m like, nope, just start. And you’ll make start. And here’s the best part of them. The thing is, is that’s the fear of failure. We don’t start because we’re afraid to fail. And we have to remind ourselves the only way we learned how to walk is to fall down. That’s how we learned over and over again. 

But it was interesting you were saying that current situation because I always say to people, don’t tell me what your values are. Where you put your time, your energy, and your money is what you value. So if you really want to know what you value, spend some time reflecting on where do I spend my time, my energy, and my money, and then you’ll know what you value. Doesn’t matter what you say. 

18:00 Lori: So true. So let’s go back. Let’s jump around a little bit, but talk about the tools for mental toughness. One of the things that I do every day and I, and part of it is I’m kind of a chaotic, I’m kind of a chaotic ADHD kind of human. Okay. I’m in a lot of groups. I’m in a lot, but the one I joined during the pandemic, I think is the one that’s been the most life changing. 

And it was started by a woman, um, at the beginning. Like, I think it was like April or May of 2020 and people were struggling to get out of bed. Things were so chaotic and crazy. Exactly. Drinking wine. Um, And she started two accountability, what she calls accountability labs. And we meet, there was one at 6.30 and one at 7.07. The 6.31 has disbanded since people went back to the office. But those of us who stay are in the 7.07 group. We meet every single day. 

19:00 And we make a commitment personally, professionally, and a mindset. Monday through Friday. Monday through Friday. But every single Monday through Friday, 7.07. Bedhead. Runny mascara. Like what if you go on vacation? If you go on vacation, you might not go, but like my hair is always like all messed up and, and I’ve got the, you know, I, and I’m in my pajamas and it makes such a difference. 

I went from doing my little, I’m going to be a solopreneur on the sofa to now I have an office and I have, you know, five employees and, you know, we’re growing this agency. And I don’t know, I, as far as mental toughness, I, I talk about what I need to learn. And I really need the accountability from other people. 

Because for example, yesterday I said I would do my weight training workout on my morning call. About 8.30, I hadn’t done it yet. So trust me, I didn’t want to come this morning and say I didn’t. So I got my weights out and I did my workout at 8.30 and it was perfect. So there’s a lot of things that, tools that might work for you. So what tools worked for you? 

20:00 Jacqueline: Oh gosh. Well, I would say part of it that worked for me, which is going to sound odd, but when I started working out, I had been an athlete for a lot of my life. Okay. So when I started working out, I went to a beginner program for people who had never worked out before on purpose. 

One, because I didn’t want to get sore because I knew if I got real sore the first day, like I could do it all the first day. Great. And then I wouldn’t be able to walk for three days, which is what happened when I went down the stairs. And I was like, yeah, and I’ll quit. I know myself. Yeah. 

So I started super beginner so I wouldn’t get sore and ease into it. And then I just started to feel better because more endorphins were happening. So that humbling, I would say humbling myself a little bit. Like it. Really starting at the beginning started. That’s also mental toughness is humility is saying, okay, I’m not as, you know, I have some work to do on some things. Yeah.

21:00 I would also say. Like habits. I mean, my morning routine is now it’s a ritual. I call I don’t even call it a routine or it’s a morning ritual. I can’t start like that. I can’t start my day if I don’t spend some time quiet by myself with me and whatever your spirituality is. For me, it’s God. And I spend some time with God and I spend some time getting to a place of gratitude in the morning and doing affirmations and reading the daily stoic that I do. 

And those things have been crucial to my ability to be successful. And I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now because 14 months ago, I had some dreams that someone had told me that I said, if someone had told me I would have left a bad relationship, lost 80 pounds and be doing my dream of starting a TV show, you know, doing it on TV. I would have told them they were absolutely had lost their minds, crazy people. And you must be smoking drugs because that’s never going to happen. 

22:00 I was 52. I had given up. I had given up and thought, I’m just, I’m done. So I’m sorry. No, it’s good though. Super stuck and wallowing in a lot of self-pity and victimhood. And that’s the thing. Mental toughness. 

I also made a decision to let go of being a victim. I was like, I’m done. I won lots of gold medals in the victimhood Olympics that I gave to myself. And I decided to turn them all back in and say, you know what? Like I got this one life to live and what am I going to do with it? Yeah. I got to go out and do something. I can’t just sit here and exist anymore. I can’t do it. 

Lori: Yeah. I love that. Love that.

Jacqueline: That helps in terms of things I did, but it’s practical things. I mean, it’s non-negotiable, and I started to keep my word to myself. And if that’s, you put it on a little calendar yourself and exit off on your fridge, you know, in our app that I am with the ladies, we check off our boxes of our, you know.

23:00 I’m going to tell you to turn off the news. Stop spending lots of time on news and doom scrolling and all of that. You know, those things are just not helpful. 

Lori: They’re not helpful at all. I found it’s really useful for me personally to make, like when I need to break a habit. And sugar has always been kind of an emotional, emotion management tool. Yeah. I mean, they say it’s like crack cocaine, right? 

Jacqueline: It releases the same dopamine that heroin and yeah. 

Lori: So at the beginning of April, I made a commitment to myself that I was going to do 90 days sugar-free. It’s almost the end of June. I broke my sugar fast on my birthday so I could have my pie and ice cream and I got right back on it and I’m still on it till the end of June. 

24:00 I kind of think by now it’s just a lifestyle, but a lot of times I’ll do that. Like I did it with the Peloton. I’ve done it with weight training where I’ve decided in order for me to build a strong habit, I’m going to have to push really hard at first, do it every day so that it feels weird not to do it. 

And then I have been weight training and on the Peloton for probably four years and weight training for about a year and a half. And I’ve been consistent and I’m seeing results, smaller pants, better energy overall. And that helps you succeed, right? 

Jacqueline: Yes. I mean, I, I can say for me, I decided to do sober October last. 

Lori: Oh, I love that. 

Jacqueline: And, um, I never considered alcohol something. I mean, I enjoy drinking and stuff, but I didn’t go through the COVID started drinking like crazy, gain a bunch of weight. That was not me. I just, not how I’ve ever been a drinker. And I’m not saying I haven’t drank too much at different times in my life. I’m just saying, I’ve never said I had too many one night, but I’m just saying I just wasn’t a big drinker that way.

25:00 But I gave it up in October and I haven’t drank. I’ve had, I had two drinks in November and I have not had a drink since. pretty much at all. So it’s been about eight and a half months. And I don’t know if I’ll drink again because I just know I sleep better. I don’t have to ever worry about a hangover. I don’t, I don’t have to ever worry about my energy level going down, you know, like kind of sad and blue and all that. Cause it is a depressant. And since I had a lot going on in my life at the time, I just realized it wasn’t going to serve me. It wasn’t going to help. 

So I agree with you and I do agree. I think it’s easier. I’m going to be honest and I agree with you. When you’re going to do something to make a big habit change, do it all 100%. Like when you’re first learning how to be a different person, be all in, like you said, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days of no sugar or no alcohol, or I’m going to walk every day for 20 minutes, rain or shine. Doesn’t matter. 

26:00 Listen, when it was 50 below, when we had some 50 below, I walked the stairs. I walked the, my, I live on the 29th floor of my building and I walked up the stairs and walked the floor and walked up the stairs and walked the floor. Because that’s what I had to do. And I was like, I’m not going to not do something that’s good for me.

Lori: Love it. Love it. Love it. Now you mentioned, um, the daily stoic and some of the stoicism books. If you are listening to this podcast and you have not discovered the stoicism concept, dig in, dig in. Um, there’s such good books, but which ones do you rely on? 

Jacqueline: So I do a morning devotional and then I do, and then I pray and meditate. And then I do, I read a passage from the daily stoic by Ryan holiday. I highly recommend it. And then I read a passage from a book called 177 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class. It’s a mouthful by Steven Siebel. I don’t know. I think I hope I pronounce that correctly. And I do those three every day, every morning.

27:00

There are some days I will do what I know some people know about called the morning pages. If I wake up and I got a lot on my mind that day before I do anything, I might sit down and do the morning pages. Now I don’t do the three, eight and a half and 11 sheets. I do the three in my journal sheets and just make myself write and get all of that out. 

I’ve also had women in our group. They do something called if you really struggle with a lot of negative thinking and negative self-talk, um, Um, they do think they call, they have like a negative dump journal. It’s a separate journal and you just write all the negative stuff and get it out so that you can then turn and focus your mind on positive things and putting positive things into your mind. 

And then I finish my morning routine with what’s called the journal called the sunrise manifesto. And it’s about gratitude. It’s about things you want to accomplish that day. I design, uh, my coach has designed it a little differently in terms of how the pages are laid out is different than how I do it. 

28:00 I do affirmations. So there’s a page that’s kind of a brain dump page, but I do all my affirmations. So I do lots of “i ams” and lots of written visualizations of what I want my life to look like and what I want to attract into my life. Wonderful. And I listen to positive podcasts and music and you know, That’s kind of what you ingest is really important. What you become. Yeah. Every aspect, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. 

Lori: Yeah, seriously. Well, we will put notes to these recommendations that Jacqueline has talked about in the show notes on the workmomsays.com website. So if you’re listening to this on Spotify or Apple or one of these other podcast platforms, feel free to run over to our website and you can get the show notes and the details and links to purchase these books and things like that. 

29:00 Jacqueline: Can I say one thing? Sure, please do. We’re talking about strategies for mental toughness. And we’ve talked about getting a routine and recognizing that discipline, you know, forever is built one day at a time. Yeah, for sure. Sometimes it’s one meal at a time and sometimes it’s one workout at a time. And that’s all you’ve got the strength for. And that’s OK. But just do it. 

Literally, the Nike saying of just do it is seriously great. Stop thinking about it and just do it. And don’t the Stoics say, Laurie, you can act yourself into a better way of thinking. Yes. And think yourself into a better way of acting. So if you’re in doubt, take action. If you’re in doubt, I can’t tell you, I never used to be a big walker. I can’t tell you how many walks I take now. Sometimes it’s 10 minutes. I just go outside my building. I walk for five minutes one way and turn around, walk back just to clear my head.

What I wanted to say about that was don’t stop trying. Like what works for Lori and I might not work for you, but the important thing is to keep looking, keep searching, keep But you have to give it more than a day or a week. You have to commit to something for 30 days and really commit to the program as it’s designed by the person who designed it. Yes.

30:00 Because if you’re struggling, it means what you’ve been doing and thinking you’re smarter than everything else and everybody else ain’t working. People who created it, do it the way they want you to do it for 30 days. And then you can tweak it once it becomes your own and you make it your own in your own habit. 

Lori: Absolutely. Now there’s a quote that you use and I’d like us to close with about things being hard. Oh, yes. Yeah. This is a really good one that you really want to keep in mind. I want it on a shirt or a necklace or something or I can get a tattoo. 

Jacqueline: You could use it for lots of different things, but I have used it for losing weight. No, stop. Repeat. Being overweight is hard. Losing weight is hard. Maintaining a healthy weight is hard. Choose your hard. Yeah. And it’s a choice. 

31:00 Lori: Yep. And life is hard. I’m sorry, but there are times when it is so hard, you know, and 

Jacqueline: Suffering is the only thing that life will ever guarantee you. Yeah. Yeah. That is the one guarantee in life is that there is suffering and there will be suffering in your life. And that’s why you want to be mentally tough. That you can withstand it and move on and see that life is happening for you to teach you lessons. Mental toughness is also about learning to see life from perspective of what are the lessons I’m learning that will help me be a better person? 

32:00 Lori: Absolutely. Love that. And when something catastrophic happens or something negative happens, it’s really helps me to be tougher to immediately look for that lesson. Well, that wasn’t, that didn’t work. And what did we learn? We learned what didn’t work. 

Jacqueline: It also helps because it gives you perspective of realizing I’m going to tell you somebody always has it worse. Yeah. And there’s nothing wrong. And it’s important to remember that if this is happening to me and I hate it and this sucks. Yeah. But to remind myself, I know there’s somebody else who has it way worse than I do. And so that helps to get perspective so that I can, again, get through it. And then that helps mental toughness as well. 

And the one thing I want to say that it also is if you’re here and you’re listening to this and you’ve been through some really difficult things in your life, you already have some mental toughness because you’re still here. And you’re listening to this, which means you want to learn more about how to get mentally tougher. 

33:00 So here’s the deal. Accept that it happened to you. It’s not about you. Accept it happened to you and realize where do I go from here? Yeah. Where do I go from here? 

Lori: Immediately swap your mindset from, oh my God, look what’s happening. Right. To what do I learn from this and how quickly can I move on? Instead of why me, you want to say, how do I fix it? How do I move beyond it? Yep. And move into action. Exactly. Exactly. Action is always the best choice when you’re in a situation. 

One person I used to work with used to say, one of the best ways to be successful is to lead with your face and have a bias for action, which means bring 100% of yourself to it and have a bias toward action over inaction and move forward. 

34:00 Jacqueline: And recognize that like wallowing in the past or worrying about the future, that’s where all the pain is. The present is the only thing you have any control over anyway. And so, you know, if you focus on today, I just have to work on this today. And like I said, sometimes it was, I just got to eat this meal because all I really want to do right now is eat cupcakes. But I’m just going to eat this meal and I’m going to have the cupcakes, but I’m having later. 

Delayed gratification, by the way, is another very important aspect of mental toughness. Doing delayed gratification will make you mentally tougher.

I think of how many times you- And you know, rush time. Here’s the reality. I really believe this. The human brain can only process things at a certain rate and it doesn’t matter how fast the computers get. And that’s why people are freaking out because our bodies and our minds, it’s not the way the human experience is. Yes.

35:00  We have all this great technology and it’s wonderful, but just remember the human experience operates at a different pace. And if you accept that and you embrace that, it will help a lot. I know. 

Lori: Slow down to speed up. That’s another good one. Slow down to speed up because if you slow down, you don’t make mistakes. You’re more, you’re more measured in what you’re doing. You can be more intentional. So slow down to speed up. We have a lot of great, great phrases to give people. We need a line of t-shirts, Jacqueline. We do. 

We’re going to wrap this up. Thank you so much for Jacqueline for being here today. Tell us how people can get in touch with you. 

Jacqueline: Well, first, I want to thank you so much for inviting me to be on. It’s my honor and pleasure to be here with you. And you can find me at www.jacquelinelaurencellel.com. I will spell that out. My name is a mouthful. So it’s www.jacquelinelaurencelle.com. L-A-U-R-E-N-C-E-L-L-E.com. You can also check me out at JacquelineCooks.com. Same spelling of the name.

36:00 And my Instagram is JacquelineMLaurencelle. So J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E-M- L-A-U-R-E-N-C-E-L-L-E. Check me out on Instagram. I’m also on TikTok and YouTube and all the good places and Facebook, of course. 

Lori: She’s all over the place. She is all over the map. So be sure to follow her. Be sure to follow Jacqueline because she not only is she sharing her story of transformation, which is really compelling and interesting, but she also acts as your healthy cooking coach. 

So she talks about things that help you make menus that are. you know, meals that are more healthy and how to use, she’s got a video I saw the other day about how many knives you should have and how to use them and spices and how to set up a great kitchen. 

37:00 Jacqueline: Yeah. I’m very lucky because I’m able to use my French, my classic French training cook, you know, chef training to be able to realize that healthy food is sexy and delicious. And that’s the only way I want it. I I’m not going to spend the rest of my life eating cardboard. I’m not interested. So, so healthy food is sexy and delicious. 

Lori: So that’s her motto. So yes. And please, I’d love to hear what your thoughts are. Yeah. So do us a favor. Um, go ahead and Check out our website at workmomsays.com. That’s where you’ll find show notes. You’ll find the book links. You’ll find links to Jacqueline’s social pages and her websites. So if you didn’t write that down because you’re listening in your car, jump over to workmomsays.com and you’ll find that there. 

38:00 If you are listening on a podcast platform, please drop me some stars. Those really help with viewership. Write me a review. And on the contact form on the website, I’d love to hear who you’d like to have me interview on Work Mom Says. I’m open to lots of different guests or if you have a question. that I can answer for you related to EQ and work and how to play the emotional context board of business. I’d love to hear from you. Until next time, take care. Bye.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 37 – “Mental Toughness” appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

Are you a chronic people pleaser? Is it hard for you to say no at work? This episode is for you! Join Work Mom Lori Jo Vest as she shares her advice for saying no at work.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

1:00 – Boundaries matter: You are responsible for setting and holding firm to your own boundaries. Decide how you want to live your life and draw your work boundaries accordingly; otherwise, you will likely be miserable.
6:00 – Saying no is hard: If you’re a chronic people-pleaser, tend to be self-sacrificing, or work in a command-and-control type of company, it can be difficult to say no, but your boundaries are always important to uphold no matter the pushback.
10:00—Considerations before saying no: Before saying no, ask yourself strategically if you should say yes. Is the request annoying, or do you not like the way you were asked? Is there a benefit to saying yes instead? Are you compromising your personal time?
13:00 – Reasons why you can ALWAYS say no: If you’re too busy, have a personal commitment, or are asked to do something inappropriate or immoral, these are always good reasons to say no.
20:00 – The Saying No Formula: The formula for softening a no is a positive intro (I really wish I could), a reason (I’m slammed), and a suggestion (can we do this instead?).
23:00 – When you can’t say no: Sometimes you can’t say no, so do what needs to be done with grace, and don’t do it resentfully.

2:00 – Even if someone gets irritated or tries to push on those boundaries, it’s your responsibility to be mindful and pay attention to your own beliefs and values and be honest about what you can and can’t do, even if it hurts someone’s feelings or makes them a little upset.
5:40 – If you don’t like what’s happening at the company and you really feel like you’re also not able to hold your boundaries, consider finding a new environment to work in. Consider finding a place that’s more culturally relevant to you so that you don’t feel like you have to constantly be pushing their boundaries or have them pushing yours.
10:00 – When you find yourself struggling and you really don’t want to say no, take 30 seconds to think about it before you respond, because that’s really what’s going to help you make the best decision and just to, instead of just a decision.
11:00 – Ask yourself strategically before you say no if you should in fact say yes. Is there a benefit to you for saying yes, like demonstrating your skills? If it’s a new type of project that maybe you’ve not done much work on before, if it will help you build a key relationship, consider putting the extra hours in and saying yes.
14:30 – When you have to say no and you absolutely don’t have any ideas for someone else to help or another way to handle it, best thing you can say is I wish I could, but I just can’t make that work. And then shut up.
18:00 – No, that’s not something I’m interested in doing. No, I’m not going there doing that or playing any part in that. Or no, I’m not comfortable with that at all. Those are all answers you can give when someone asks you to do something inappropriate.
19:45 – Just because a request is annoying doesn’t mean it’s something that you should turn down.
22:45 – If you tried to say no and that no was rejected and you just can’t say no, don’t go into the project resentfully because it will backfire and lead you to failure

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Order my book!

0:00
Hello everybody, I’m Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Work Mom Says Don’t Be an Idiot. Great topic today. We’re going to be talking about how and when to say no at work because it will happen to you. Something will come up and you’ll have to say no to your coworker who wants you to work over the weekend, to your boss, to your supervisor, to your mom. There are a lot of times when you will have to say no.

So we’re gonna dig into that And talk about when you should say no and how you should say no. Because there are circumstances where your no should maybe be turned into a yes. So consider that as well.

But before we get going too far, let’s talk about boundaries. Boundaries is basically you setting a standard for how you want to live and then holding yourself accountable for that being true. And I’ll give you an example. I’m one of those people. I love to go to bed at 930. I go to bed at 930 because I get up at 630 and it feels good to me to get a good night’s sleep. I’m productive during the day and physically I feel really good.

1:00
And if someone comes along and says, Hey, there’s this event at 10 o’clock on Tuesday night, let’s go. I’m going to say no. Because one of my boundaries is I prefer a good night’s sleep to a late night evening and a half ruined next day. So that’s holding a boundary.

Now, there are occasions when you will have to hold a boundary and the person on the other side of the conversation doesn’t want to hear what you have to say. And they may tell you you’re being inflexible or this isn’t good for you or are you sure you really want to say no?

And in some cases, you’ll change your mind. But in others, you’ll hold that boundary because you are the one that is responsible for how you live your life and the standards you set for yourself.

2:00
So basically, it’s your responsibility. Even if someone gets irritated or tries to push on those boundaries, it’s your responsibility to maintain your side of the fence, to be mindful and pay attention to what your own beliefs and values and being honest about what you can and can’t do, even if it hurts someone’s feelings or makes them, you know, a little upset.

Be honest about what you will and won’t do, because there will be occasions when someone will ask you to work on a holiday, maybe, or work the entire weekend. And if you’ve got toddlers at home, that doesn’t fit your lifestyle. That doesn’t fit the standard that you’ve set for your life. So boundaries are really important.

3:00
So just to reiterate that part, because again, I think it’s so important. It’s your responsibility to decide how you want to live your life and then to create the environment that allows you to do so.

So for example, if you are a jeans and t-shirt kind of person, honestly, I’ve turned into that in the last six years, working at home and running an agency that’s 100% remote, jeans and t-shirts, comfy, can express yourself comfortably. you know, easy to launder, put on, no ironing. I mean, there’s a lot of reasons that that wardrobe is attractive to me. But I probably wouldn’t try to get a position at a bank and expect to bring that with me. I would have to compromise that standard. If I’m not willing to compromise that standard, then I wouldn’t take that job.

4:00
So don’t go into a conservative company and think you’re going to get away with being a wild child. If you want to be the wild child, go into more creative industry, make sure you’re looking at the companies you interview with for a culture fit, because that will help you determine if your maybe casual demeanor, jeans and t-shirt lifestyle is a fit for that culture, because that’s important.

And also if you get into an organization and you start to feel like, you know, this isn’t exactly what I want and you start trying to push for change, Be careful doing that. I would say don’t be a bull in the China shop constantly trying to push change because you will lose and you will look bad while losing. So that’s just a little side conversation there that once you decide how to live your life, make sure that the career environments that you put yourself in match with that.

5:00
So when you are interviewing, be the buyer. That’s something I heard, I think, J.B. Glossinger say. Always be the buyer. So when you go on a job interview, consider whether they’re going to be able to meet your standards. Consider whether you’re going to be able to express yourself fully in that environment so that your boundaries won’t be that hard to hold, right?

So a lot of times if you go into an environment that doesn’t fit with you culturally, you may try to push too much change. And despite your enthusiasm for making things more casual or better in ways you perceive, you will lose. And if that’s what’s happening, no matter how much enthusiasm you have, you will lose.

So if you don’t like what’s happening at the company and you really feel like you’re also not able to hold your boundaries, consider finding a new environment to work in. Consider finding a place that’s more culturally relevant to you so that you don’t feel like you have to constantly be pushing their boundaries or have them pushing yours. So just a little conversation on boundaries.

6:00
Um, so let’s talk about why it’s so hard to say no. Lots and lots of reasons. When we go to school, we’re taught to cooperate. We’re taught to be good, you know, good classmates to be collaborative. Um, And in a lot of cases, I hate to say this, but we’ve been traumatized. A lot of us have been traumatized and we’re people pleasers.

I just saw Lenny Kravitz interviewed on CBS Morning News by Gayle King, and he just turned 60. And he’s this, you know, superstar. And here he is at 60 saying, I’m a people pleaser. My whole career, I’ve suffered with that. And now at 60, I finally feel like I’m doing what’s right for me.

And a lot of people feel that way because as people pleasers, we may not discover that were people pleasers till, you know, our forties, fifties, or even sixties, because it’s just a behavior pattern that’s so natural based on, you know, your personal trauma response that you don’t even know you’re doing it until you’ve been doing it for a really long time and it hasn’t worked. And then you go, wait a minute, what’s happening.

7:00
So if you, um, if you have a trauma response that is people pleasing or what I call fawning, that’s how you’ll see it defined. Um, you will naturally find it hard to say no, because most people don’t want to hear no, they want you to say yes, you know, and when you can, you will.

But, um, if your trauma response is fawning, it will be difficult, even more difficult for you. Um, a lot of us just worry that others will think less of us if we’re not always cooperative. When in reality, if you think about the people in your life, somebody who’s told you no before, um, Were they awful people? No, they weren’t. Did you hate them forever? Probably not. So if you think that others are going to think less of you, try to put yourself in that position. Would you think less of you if you had to say no? Probably not.

8:00
So we’re worried about what other people think of us. We also may think that if we can’t do it all, we’re not good enough. that we, we should be able to take whatever’s thrown at us. Well, that’s a real old school way of thinking.

Um, back in the eighties, you know, sixties, eighties, nineties, um, you would find a lot of that happening where, um, you know, super woman, women can go to, you know, go to work in the morning and pick up the groceries on the way home and make a beautiful dinner and read the children a story after their baths and just be super woman. You can do it all. Um, No, nobody can do it all. That myth was debunked a long time ago. Nobody can do it all.

So when you find you have to say no because you cannot do it all, just remember there’s no such thing as superheroes. You are not a superhero. You do not have extensive powers that allow you to get more than 24 hours out of a day. So pay no attention to that one.

9:00
We think we’re self-sacrificing or we are self-sacrificing. Maybe we’ve been conditioned that it’s best for us to do what others think we should do. um, over our serving our own needs. And that happens a lot. Um, many of us come from families where there was maybe a dominant family member who always got their way and you went along. And so you became what I call self-sacrificing. You don’t have to be that in a work environment. You can experiment at work, um, by trying to hold your boundaries and trying to say no when you need to.

Um, the other thing that happens frequently, because we have a lot of, um, command and control type leadership in the United States anyway, in large corporations. So you may have said no to your boss or to a coworker in the past and gotten called out for it and kind of forced to do what you didn’t want to do.

So let’s say you said no in the past and nobody listened. Just because they didn’t listen then doesn’t mean they won’t listen now. Doesn’t mean that other people at other companies where you work won’t listen.

10:00
So those reasons, um, that make it hard to say no are things to keep in mind. And when you find yourself kind of struggling, like, I really don’t want to say no, take a minute, take a pause, um, take 30 seconds to think about it before you respond, because that’s really what’s going to help you make the best decision and just to, instead of just a decision.

So a couple of things, um, Now you know why you have a hard time saying no. Let’s talk about what you should do before you say no. Ask yourself strategically, should you actually be saying yes? Are you one of those people that maybe has what is called demand resistance, meaning somebody is demanding something out of you, you don’t like the way they asked you, or you’re just not happy about being asked, so you immediately say no or think, no, I’m not going to do that.

11:00
Ask yourself strategically before you say no, especially at work, if you should in fact say yes. Is there a benefit to you for saying yes, like demonstrating your skills? If it’s a new type of project that maybe you’ve not done much work on before, if it will help you build a key relationship, consider putting the extra hours in and saying yes, because it could be a career builder. Will it help you grow your skills? Then say yes, always. That’s one of those things.

If you can possibly do it and do it well, and maybe you’re a little intimidated because you’ve not done it before, well, the only way to learn is to try new things. So if you’re concerned you might not have the skills, definitely say yes and let other people help you learn those skills that you might be lacking.

Are you compromising your family time too much? That’s something you definitely need have to be mindful of. If you have a partner and kids or just a partner and fur kids, you are entitled to have a good life. And that means spending time with your family and having personal time as well as being available and doing your best work.

12:00
So maybe lean toward no if you’re compromising your family time too much. And you know when that happens. So it can be a tough balancing act, but be strategic about it. You may have to compromise once, you know, one weekend and then don’t for six months just to show that you’ve got, you know, some skin in the game and you are willing.

Or like one of my girlfriends did, you know, three or four years ago, she quit a job because they expected her to work till nine o’clock at night and over the weekend once she got there. And she very clearly explained, I have small children at home. This was not what was explained to me when I first started here. So I found another position.

13:00
And it was really, to me, it was really outstanding to see a young woman stand up for her family that way. Because we often feel like we can’t do that. Like our families aren’t as important. Well, if your family’s not important to your boss, find a new boss. I got to tell you.

Okay, let’s talk now about when you have to say no. here are reasons to always say no. When you simply can’t do something effectively because you’re just too busy. Um, I, I’m just, maybe I’m just jamming out 60 hours a week and somebody tries to put something else on my schedule with a tight deadline and I know I can’t do it.

A couple of ways to approach that would be say no and discuss the options for having other people do it. Um, maybe I can’t do it, but you know what? I know that Melissa, uh, is really good at that kind of work and she might have some open time. So you say no, but you discuss options and help them find someone else to do it.

14:00
Say no and see if you can negotiate to take on part of it or push the deadlines. I’ve done that before where I’ve worked on projects and they want me to, you know, maybe write all the social copy and select all the stock images. And I know I can’t do both. So maybe I say I can write the social copy. And can you have John, you know, work on the images for me? Then we can meet that deadline. But I can’t do it all myself.

Another option. When you have to say no and you absolutely don’t have any ideas for someone else to help or another way to handle it, best thing you can say is I wish I could, but I just can’t make that work. And then shut up. That’s all you need to say. I just can’t make that work.

And then be quiet because there’s a tactic in negotiations, really effective that when you say something like that, we all have a tendency to say, Oh, I wish I could, but I can’t make that work because I have this and that, and then this and that. And before you know it, you’re talking yourself out of your know. So I wish I could, but no, I can’t make that work. And then be quiet.

15:00
And the thing in negotiations is whoever talks first loses. So even if there’s 30 seconds of quiet, just wait for their response. Because what you’ve done is you’ve set down a boundary that maybe you have a wedding that weekend. Maybe you have a, first communion or you have a birthday party or an anniversary, or, you know, you have to get home for your wife’s birthday. You promised her you would take her out to dinner, whatever it is, you have the ability to say no and the responsibility to yourself to say no.

So one of the best ways to soften that is I wish I could, but no, I can’t make that work and say it in a tone that under that expresses your sincerity, that you really kind of feel bad that you can’t do it.

16:00
So when you’re too busy, when you have personal commitments and you absolutely have to say no, those are some great suggestions. We will put some additional resources into the transcript, the show notes for this episode. So you can look there and find some more resources on how to say no, because it’s a really difficult thing to do sometimes. But anyway, back to the when to say no.

Another time you have to say no is when you’re being asked to do something inappropriate. Maybe it’s against the rules. Maybe it’s against your moral character. Let’s say, you know, we’re going to punch up this invoice with 10 extra hours a week, and you know that 10 extra hours of work aren’t being done. Or this guy should have this discount, but since he hasn’t asked about it, let’s not give it to him.

Those kinds of things are kind of dicey. They’re on the edge of what you can say, you know, I won’t do, however, you can say no and reiterate it with a reinforcing phrase. So let’s talk about that.

17:00
You know, I, Lori, I need you to add, you know, 10 hours a week to this invoice. We just have to catch up on some financing and, you know, we’re working way too hard for them anyway. And some answers you could give would be, I’m sorry, but that’s not how I do things. Um, And for example, that’s not how I do things. Is there a better way or can we inform the client that they’re out of scope and that we need to bill more hours and they will expect that and it will be handled appropriately? Can we do that instead?

Another answer for that is no, that’s not something I’m interested in doing. You know, if somebody is asking you to, to lie about something, to be a backup commentator on someone’s performance or, you know, anything that sounds like gossip or, you know, lying or, you know, just being less than stellar in your moral character at the office should be shut down.

18:00
No, that’s not something I’m interested in doing. No, I’m not going there doing that or playing any part in that. Or no, I’m not comfortable with that at all. Those are all answers you can give.

And it may sound a little out of the normal realm, but having been in business for 30 years, I can tell you people will, you will come across those people that will do completely inappropriate things in your company and ask you to play along. They are out there.

I have worked in, you know, at least six different companies where, you know, the owner had difficulties not dating the staff or, you know, they, people were HR told everybody what everybody made when they weren’t supposed to, or people were asked to do things that were untoward. And you have to say no to that. You are within your rights to say no.

19:00
But then one of the best things that you can do is to find another employer, if that’s what’s happening, because you shouldn’t have to tolerate that kind of thing. And if it’s not honestly, if it’s not on the up and up, you don’t want to get caught in it. So it’s best to say no.

So when you find yourself annoyed and irritated by a request, That is not enough of a reason to say no. Before you say no, find out what’s going on with you. What’s got you annoyed? What’s causing the problem? Is it, you just don’t like this coworker or maybe you’ve done, you know, them a ton of favors and they just keep pushing favors on you, but they’re not doing favors for you. There’s no reciprocity, those kinds of people.

You may want to stop yourself for a second, take that 30 second break and then, Think about why it’s upsetting you so that you can get clarity before you decide if you should say yes or no. Just because a request is annoying doesn’t mean it’s something that you should turn down. So that’s something to consider.

20:00
Moving along, it’s really important to know how to soften a no. And that’s not saying, nope, I’m not doing that, because I had someone do that to me once. I was in video production. We’d hired an audio guy, or we were going to hire an audio guy, and it was a real complex project, and it was pretty expensive.

And so my job, I thought, as the account rep, getting the quote was to ask the question at the end, When I got the quote, can you do any better on price? That felt like what I needed to do to be fiscally responsible for my clients. And one audio guy, he just cracks me up in hindsight, but he said the answer to that would be no. And I was like, ooh, ouch. Didn’t feel good.

21:00
So when you have to say no, learning how to soften it can be really helpful to the relationship. So some examples. I really wish I could, but I’m slammed. Can we do this instead? I’m so sorry I can’t make this work. Is there any flexibility on the deadline? I’d love to help, but I’m on a few heavy deadlines that are taking 100% of my attention. Can I help you find someone else to do that for you?

And think about it this way. There’s a formula for this softening a no. And that is a positive intro, the reason, and it doesn’t have to be detailed, but just a reason, and a suggestion. For example, I really wish I could. That’s a positive intro. But I’m slammed. That’s the reason. Can we do this instead? That’s the suggestion. Again, positive. Another way, positive intro. I’m so sorry, but I can’t make this work. That’s the intro and the reason. And the suggestion is, is there any flexibility on the deadline? Because maybe if they change their deadline, you could get the work done. You never know.

22:00
So those kinds of things, positive intro, the reason, and a suggestion. If you can remember that, those no’s will be a lot softer when they land on the other side with the recipient.

Now, when you can’t say no, there are times when you just can’t say no. This happens a lot in the ad agency world. And I’m sure at tax season, it probably happens in the accounting world. And there’s all kinds of deadlines that come up. And sometimes somebody will pile stuff on you and you can’t say no.

And in those cases, do what needs to be done with grace. Don’t do it resentfully. Keep the emotions out of it. Be a professional 100%. If you tried to say no and that no was rejected and you just can’t say no, don’t go into the project resentfully because it will backfire.

23:00
And once you know you have no choice and you’ve been forced to say yes, just honestly fake it till you make it. Pretend that you feel good about it until you feel good about it. Being resentful after you’ve had to say yes to a request will definitely lead you to failure. And nobody wants failure. You don’t want failure. Your employer doesn’t want failure. Whoever’s asking you to do the work doesn’t want failure. And most of all, you don’t want to look bad.

Resentment will never make you look good. Resentment is always something you want to explore and figure out and get behind you before you discuss an issue with a coworker or your boss. or a client.

24:00
So that’s basically what I’ve got for you today, how to say no and when to say no at work. So please keep in touch with me. I’m an open networker on LinkedIn under Lori Jo Vest. We also have a LinkedIn page. I think I mentioned that earlier. You can go there to, you know, comment on our content and um, read our blog posts, things like that.

On our website at workmomsays.com, we have a contact form and we’d love to hear from you. Tell us who you’d like us to have on as guests. If you’d like to be a guest, let us know. Tell us what you’re thinking. What should we be covering? We’d love to hear from you.

And if you’re listening on one of the podcast platforms, please shoot me some stars. Let me know you’re listening. I’d love to hear from you there too. So again, signing off. This is Lori Jo Vest. Work Mom Says, don’t Be An Idiot.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

The post Episode 36 – When and How to Say No at Work appeared first on Work Mom Says®.

Is it hard for you to accept constructive criticism without getting defensive? This episode is for you! Work Mom Lori Jo Vest shares her advice for handling feedback and criticism with grace.

Timestamped inflection points from the show

2:00 – Eagle’s eye view: When you get negative feedback, pull way back and look at the situation from a wider perspective. Can you look at the feedback in a way that brings out a positive feeling? If you start doing this, you’ll create a pattern of behavior so you never get crabby about feedback.
5:00 – Let it go: If it’s not a hill worth dying on (which it almost never is), it’s always better to let go of your ego, not fight the critique, and accept the feedback.
5:45: How you receive feedback matters: Are you overly dramatic or sensitive? You WILL lose credibility with your team because they know it’ll become a fight if they offer any feedback.
6:20 – Lessons: What lesson are you being taught when you’re critiqued? Whether you’re learning how to keep cool or that you’re not always right, you can learn tons of valuable lessons when you receive criticism.
8:00 – The work isn’t yours: In a corporate environment, it’s essential to remember that the work you’re doing belongs to the company or client – not you. If you can keep that in mind, it’s easier to accept feedback and be collaborative.
9:00 – Defensiveness never works: If you start getting defensive, take a quick break to calm yourself down. Defensiveness immediately creates barriers between you and the other person. Instead, take a breath so you can accept criticism with a calm mind.

2:00 -You may have incredible talent and you may be doing a really, really great job. But the person that’s responsible for receiving your work has a different perspective than you do.
2:20 – If you pull back on an eagle’s eye view of what’s being discussed, it’ll make it a whole lot easier to handle it and to manage it with grace. And what I mean when I say manage it with grace is by being the person that is steady, that doesn’t get knocked over by criticism or negative feedback, somebody who’s able to keep a nice emotional even keel.
4:30 – Collaboration and accepting and incorporating other people’s points of view into your work is what builds relationships in the workplace.
5:15 – Is the concern, the criticism, whatever’s being brought up, is it important enough to you that it would be an appropriate hill to die on? Most of the time, the answer to that question is no.
6:00 – Learn to receive the lessons in the feedback, even if it’s just in keeping your cool and giving up some of your egoic feelings. What is the lesson? What are you being taught when you’re being confronted like that?
10:00 – If you really want to get in someone’s good graces and create a strong relationship, ask them for feedback when the project is over. How did I do? Is there anything I could do to have managed this better, more efficiently and in a way that better serves the team.

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0:00
Hello, everybody. I’m Lori Jo Vest, and I’m so glad you chose to tune in to this episode of Work Mom Says, Don’t Be an Idiot.

Today, we are going to talk about how to handle feedback and criticism with grace. It is not easy. And as a young professional in the workplace, you will receive a lot of criticism and feedback, positive and negative. People will critique your work.

And one of the things that I say right off the bat here that I want you to remember is feedback is love. Feedback is what people provide to you as an opportunity to improve your work. Now, are they always right? Maybe not. If they’re superior to you in their position, you want to listen.

1:00
So, basically, I want to encourage you to consider feedback, criticism, and conflict from what a friend of mine recently called the eagle’s eye view. You want to pull way out from what you’re looking at, what’s happening at the moment, that negative criticism that you received from your coworker or your boss. You want to pull way back and go, okay, let me look at this from a wider perspective.

If I’m not coming from my ego, can I look at this feedback in a way that actually brings out a positive feeling in me? A lot of people struggle with feedback because they know they’ve done a great job or they’ve worked hard on something, and they’re really attached to the work. So put a pin in that and hang on to it for a second.

2:00
You may have incredible talent and be doing a really, really great job. But the person responsible for receiving your work, elevating your work to the next level, turning your work into the client, or whatever that means has a different perspective than you do. And sometimes, things may come out that are kind of frustrating.

But if you pull back on an eagle’s eye view of what’s being discussed, it’ll make it a whole lot easier to handle it and manage it with grace. And what I mean when I say manage it with grace is by being the person who is steady, who doesn’t get knocked over by criticism or negative feedback, somebody who’s able to keep a nice emotional even keel. That should be what you work toward whenever you’re in the office.

So, I’m going to share a quick little story. It was one of the most interesting pieces of feedback I ever received on my work. While it really didn’t make a lot of sense to me at the time, everybody else in the room agreed. So we had to go through it, and I had to accept it.

3:00
I was writing social media copy for an ad agency for a brand that was targeting women, women at midlife. And one of the things that we women in midlife suffer from is being overweight. Um, it’s really easy to gain weight as your hormones change, that kind of thing.

And so, I had created a social post that had a little quote on it and it said, basically your dress size is no more important than your shoe size. And that was the quote and it was on a little graphic and it was implying that you, you know, we don’t really think about, we don’t ask people what their shoe sizes are. We don’t lament that our shoe size is bigger than the person sitting next to us, you know, in the movie theater. We just don’t worry about it.

So I thought it was a great quote. I thought it worked really well for our audience. And one of the art directors in the room said, what about people who have big feet? And the whole room got quiet. We were reviewing the copy. The whole room got quiet. And I said, well, hopefully there aren’t very many of those people who would be offended. Well, I turned into it, you know, 10 minute discussion and, And I said, okay, let me find a new quote because it wasn’t worth fighting over.

4:00
When I pulled back and looked at it with, you know, with a wider view, I realized it wasn’t something that I needed to fight over. It wasn’t something that was going to be worth making a production about. And then if I could just put my feelings aside and, That, you know, that’s kind of silly. I mean, I’ve never heard anybody beat themselves up about having big feet, but then I don’t have big feet. So maybe I’m missing something.

So anyway, put that aside and keep moving. That is what we do in the workplace. Because one of the things that you always want to prioritize is that connected, positive relationship. Collaboration and accepting and incorporating other people’s points of view into your work is what builds relationships in the workplace. You want to remember that. You want to always put that top of mind when you’re in the workplace.

Because what will happen is you will develop a pattern of behavior that when you receive criticism or, you know, a nasty comment at the office, you’ll pull back. go, is this really something worth fighting over? No, it never is. It might be something worth negotiating over with a calm, clear head, but no criticism is ever worth getting bitey or crabby about. It’s just not.

5:00
So be mindful of how you are receiving the criticism. Are you being overly dramatic? Are you not feeling good? So maybe you’re a little more sensitive than you usually would be. Is the concern, the criticism, whatever’s being brought up, is it important enough to you that it would be an appropriate hill to die on? Most of the time, the answer to that question is no.

Next question to ask yourself would be, what would happen if you just let it go? If somebody said, I really want to do it this way, and you go, oh, it should be done that way, and they come back again and say, I really want to do it this way, Is it worth fighting for? And what would happen if you just let it go? A lot of times that’s the better option.

Fighting for small things, especially if you’re a person that’s kind of sensitive, if you fight about a lot of things, you start to lose credibility with your team because they won’t want to talk to you about things, won’t want to bring up criticism, because they’ll know that they’re going to be in for a fight.

I think a lot of us have worked with that person who’s always got the negative thing to say, or you make a suggestion and they’re not open to it. Don’t be that guy. Don’t be that person who doesn’t know how to accept feedback or criticism with grace. It’s really important to your success.

6:00
So another great way to look at it is to learn to receive the lessons in the feedback, even if it’s just in keeping your cool and giving up some of your egoic feelings. What is the lesson? What are you being taught when you’re being confronted like that? And I will tell you the shoe conversation, I won’t forget it for, I don’t think I’ll ever forget it because it hit me as so incredibly ludicrous. And everybody else in the room said, yeah, we should probably not use that quote.

So I was like, all right, the lesson is you’re not always right, Lori, that’s your lesson. And giving up my ego and just letting it go was absolutely the right choice. So, um, learn to receive the lesson, um, use it as practice for keeping your calm as practice for say, you know, for staying in a positive space when maybe something negative is going on around you or you’re being criticized.

7:00
And the other thing that really plays into this whole, um, being sensitive to feedback is a lot of times if you’re being seriously sensitive, you’re being what I call too precious with your work. Like it’s your work, you own it. You wrote it or you created the spreadsheet or you made the, you know, the website, whatever it is that you did. And you’re really proud of it.

And then somebody comes in and the first thing they say is, you know, that color is a little off or that’s the wrong font or, you know, why didn’t you put this other calculation in here? Why doesn’t this spreadsheet have six more columns with this information?

8:00
Well, the way I would encourage you to look at your work in a traditional corporate environment is you are being paid by someone else to do it. So it’s really not your work. It’s the company’s work. And the company is asking you to be collaborative with your team. So not being precious with your work and just giving it up to the team once you’ve created your first version or your first draft. And then going immediately into collaboration mode will help you better handle that. criticism, feedback changes, that kind of thing.

So last but not least, one of the most important things you can do to be able to handle feedback and criticism with grace is to own both your failures and your successes. Don’t get defensive. Defensiveness never works.

9:00
If you feel yourself getting defensive, take a couple of deep breaths, maybe say, you go to the ladies room or the men’s room, walk around the hallway. Just say, I’m just going to take a quick break. Hold on a second. I’ll be right back.

They don’t have to know that you’re just outside in the hallway, walking around in circles, but do whatever it takes so that you aren’t defensive because a defensive posture immediately creates barriers between you and the other person that you’re communicating with, you don’t want to do that. So accept the criticism gracefully. Thank you so much.

10:00
And if you really want to get in someone’s good graces and create a strong relationship, ask them for feedback when the project is over. How did I do? Is there anything I could do to have managed this better, more efficiently and in a way that better serves the team. And if you go back and even ask for more feedback and input, then it’ll become a habit and you’ll become the kind of person that is always looking for input so that you can truly collaborate and also truly do your best work.

Doing your best work in a corporate environment is a collaborative process. You get input. You put out output. That becomes someone else’s input. It’s a collaborative world that we live in in our careers.

11:00
So think about those things. Let me know if there’s any other advice I can give you. In that area, or if you have any questions about handling criticism, I would love to do an Ask Work Mom episode. So please feel free to send me any questions you have. Our website at workmomsays.com has a contact form that will allow you to ask me any questions you’d like.

I also am an open networker on LinkedIn, so you can find me there, connect with me, send me a private message. Happy to engage with you. Just mentioned that you have Listen to the Work Mom Says podcast.

12:00
I’m also looking for reviews. We are on Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, all the different podcast platforms and would love a couple of stars if you enjoy what we’re doing here. Drop me some stars and show me some encouragement. And send me your topics. Send me your suggested guests. I’d love to hear from you.

So that’s all I’ve got for you today. Thank you so much for listening to Work Mom Says. Don’t be an idiot. Where we like to teach young professionals how to play the emotional contact sport of business so you can experience less drama and more success. See you next time.

This podcast is for young professionals, so they can learn to play the emotional context sport of business and experience less drama and more success.

The ideal listener is anyone struggling on an emotional level in the workplace. Work Mom Says it helps you learn to be strategic at work. This means you can look at the big picture without getting lost in the weeds. How can you be more logical and less emotional? Be strategic, and Work Mom Says can help you.

“I tell people to back up, put down the magnifying glass, and look at the big picture when you’re responding to something,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom. “In doing this, you will understand that what’s really upsetting you right now will be something you don’t even remember next week.”

Listening to Work Mom Says can help you grow your mood management skills, grow your ability to reframe situations, and look at things from a strategic point of view. This makes it easier to go into a work situation and get the most positive results.

On Work Mom Says, we also offer tips and tricks for creating connected positive relationships that last over time. People will want you on the team if you can create connected positive relationships and work environments. You become an asset, and you will be more successful when you’re an asset.

“I also like to talk about developing traits like optimism, persistence, tenacity, stick-to-itiveness, sticking with things, and approaching every project with a curious mind instead of a fearful mind,” said Lori Jo Vest, Work Mom

I do this because I naturally fell into the Work Mom role when I worked in the ad agency business and had so much fun with it. I also realized I had made just about every mistake there was to make. I don’t hold myself as a stellar example of truth and how you should be. I hold myself out there as someone who has been bruised, battered, and beaten up and learned some important lessons. I’d love to share these lessons with young people, so they don’t have to make those same mistakes or be the idiot I was.

I also want to help young professionals realize that many things our culture prioritizes aren’t really important. We talk a lot about what should be important and how to present your best face at the office so that you can succeed.

I’ve learned so much throughout my career, and it’s gratifying to share that with young professionals and help them avoid some of those mistakes and get to that success sooner.

Episode 26 – “The Origin of Work Mom Says (Plus a Sneak Peek at My Upcoming Book)” appeared first on Work Mom Says.

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