Wrestling Payments

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

Episode Summary
In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Phil Robin, SVP of Strategy at The Clearing House. They explore how financial institutions are approaching the challenges of modernizing payment operations, with a focus on risk, governance, and the rapid pace of change in new technologies.

Phil shares his perspective on the importance of building strong governance around artificial intelligence, noting that a clear framework helps institutions manage both cultural and operational risks as they introduce new tools. He highlights the varied approaches that banks take, shaped by their unique priorities and use cases, and stresses that inaction is often the greater risk as AI becomes more integrated into payment processes.

The conversation moves to emerging topics like stablecoin, tokenized deposits, and the steady growth of real-time payments (RTP). Phil explains how shifting regulatory clarity and evolving customer needs are driving experimentation, especially in areas like business-to-business and consumer-to-business payments. He points to the ongoing expansion of RTP and the need for broad acceptance to reach true scale, encouraging payment leaders to keep their eyes on both innovation and fundamentals.

💡 Name: Phil Robin
💡 What he does: SVP, Strategy
💡 Company: The Clearing House
💡 Noteworthy: Guides strategy projects focused on payments innovation, governance, and risk, with deep expertise in real-time payments and industry modernization.
💡 Where to find him:https://www.linkedin.com/in/philrobin1/

Key Insights
Focus on Governance First When Adopting AI

Strong governance is the foundation of responsible AI adoption in payments. Before diving into the promise of artificial intelligence, organizations must set clear rules and accountability. This means building frameworks around data security, transparency, and risk appetite to ensure any AI use aligns with institutional priorities. When banks and payment providers define the “rules of the road” early, they give staff and leadership confidence to experiment and scale new tools. Governance also helps ease cultural resistance by making the organization’s approach to AI visible and consistent. With guardrails in place, teams can better focus on the practical benefits of AI—like automating manual tasks or unlocking growth opportunities—without losing sight of the risks. The key takeaway: don’t treat governance as an afterthought or a compliance hurdle. Make it the starting point for any serious AI strategy in payments.

Instant Payments Will Scale Through Use Case Diversity
Real-time payments (RTP) have moved from concept to reality, but true growth hinges on solving a wide range of business needs. Volume keeps hitting new records, yet the next wave of adoption will depend on how RTP addresses complex problems, especially in areas like business-to-business and healthcare payments. Each segment brings unique challenges around data, timing, and control. For example, B2B payments often involve detailed invoices and reconciliation, while brokerage transfers demand speed and confirmation. As more financial institutions explore RTP for these distinct cases, the network’s value and reach will expand. Building for use case diversity ensures that RTP is not just a faster way to pay, but a flexible tool that adapts to industry-specific workflows. Payment professionals should keep looking for unmet needs—these are where RTP can deliver the most impact and drive long-term adoption.

Stablecoin and Tokenization: Navigating Fast-Moving Terrain
The landscape for stablecoin and tokenized deposits is evolving quickly, creating both urgency and uncertainty for banks. Regulatory changes, like recent national trust charter approvals, h

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

Episode Summary

Wrestling Payments kicks off 2026 with a trip to the Hill. Host Joe Casali sits down with William Sullivan, Associate Managing Director of Government and Industry Relations at Nacha, for a wide-ranging Washington update on the policies shaping the future of payments.

William breaks down the latest twists in open banking rulemaking—including a potential reversal on whether financial institutions can charge for data access—and explains why stablecoin legislation remains gridlocked between banking and crypto interests. He offers a candid look at the political dynamics slowing progress on the Clarity Act, cannabis banking, and check reduction efforts, showing how competing priorities and election-year pressures keep even common-sense reforms stuck in neutral.

Throughout the conversation, William emphasizes that advocacy and engagement aren't optional—payment professionals need to understand these shifts and make their voices heard before the rules are written.

Guest-at-a-Glance

William Sullivan Associate Managing Director, Government & Industry Relations, Nacha Leads Nacha's advocacy and industry relations efforts, delivering actionable insights on ACH network policy, payment regulation, and legislative developments affecting financial institutions. www.nacha.org 

To hear this episode and many more like it, listen here or subscribe to Wrestling Payments on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. For show notes, transcripts, and other resources visit www.wrestlingpayments.com.

Host: Joe Casali, EVP, NEACH #wrestlingpayments #wrestlingpaymentspodcast #paymentspodcast

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

Episode Summary

Wrestling Payments kicks off 2026 with a critical conversation. Host Joe Casali is joined by Brian Laverdure and Mickey Marshall from the Independent Community Bankers of America (ICBA) to unpack the growing regulatory gap between fintechs and traditional banking. As non-banks rapidly expand into mortgage lending and payments, community institutions face an uneven playing field—and the stakes are rising fast.

Mickey breaks down how the OCC's National Trust Bank charter has become a backdoor for crypto companies to issue stablecoins without standard bank supervision, FDIC insurance, or community reinvestment obligations. Brian walks through the legislative landscape and explains why the current rulemaking race will define the future competitive environment for community banks. Together, they paint a sobering picture: if deposits migrate from local banks to stablecoin wallets, the capital that funds small business loans, mortgages, and local economic growth disappears with them.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone in community banking or payments. The message is clear—education and advocacy aren't optional anymore.

Guests-at-a-Glance

Brian Laverdure Vice President, Payments and Technology Policy, ICBA Specializes in digital asset policy and cross-border payment frameworks for community institutions. LinkedIn 

Mickey Marshall Vice President and Regulatory Counsel, ICBA Legal expert navigating payments regulation, novel bank charters, and cryptocurrency regulatory challenges. LinkedIn 

To hear this episode and many more like it, listen here or subscribe to Wrestling Payments on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. For show notes, transcripts, and other resources visit www.wrestlingpayments.com.

Host: Joe Casali, EVP, NEACH #wrestlingpayments #wrestlingpaymentspodcast #paymentspodcast

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

Episode Summary In this episode of Wrestling Payments, Joe Casali sits down with Steve Wasserman of Vments and Larry Pruss of Strategic Resource Management for an urgent conversation about the seismic shifts happening in payments right now. Stablecoins and tokenized deposits aren't coming—they're here, and they're already pulling deposits away from traditional institutions. Steve breaks down the critical differences between these technologies and why full-reserve models are creating both new opportunities and existential threats for banks and credit unions. Larry shares eye-opening data on deposit outflows and explains why institutions can't afford to wait while new players capture customer relationships. The conversation tackles practical challenges head-on, from building acceptance networks to preventing costly user mistakes, and explores how QR codes and programmable money are about to transform the payment experience. This episode is a wake-up call: the time to develop your digital asset strategy isn't someday—it's now.

Guests-at-a-Glance
Steve Wasserman Founder and CEO, Vments A leading voice in digital currencies and payments infrastructure, helping financial institutions navigate the strategic complexities of stablecoins and emerging payment technologies. LinkedIn

Larry Pruss Senior Vice President, Digital Assets Advisory Services, SRM (Strategic Resource Management) A strategic advisor guiding banks and credit unions through the digital assets landscape with practical, regulatory-ready approaches to emerging payment trends. LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Deposit Battle Is Already Underway Financial institutions are losing deposits to stablecoins and digital asset platforms at an alarming rate—in some cases, 3% per month. This isn't a future threat; it's happening now. Stablecoins operate on full-reserve models with public blockchain transparency, offering speed and efficiency that attract businesses and consumers alike. Traditional institutions that viewed competition as coming only from other banks are now facing deposit outflows to fintechs and digital platforms that operate with fewer intermediaries. The competitive landscape has fundamentally shifted, and institutions must develop new strategies to retain customers and stay relevant in this digital-first payments world.

Strategy First, Adoption Second The pressure to launch stablecoin products or tokenized deposit services is intense, but rushing in without a clear strategy leads to wasted resources and customer confusion. The winning approach starts with understanding user needs, building acceptance networks, and establishing the right partnerships before launching anything. Institutions need to map out how payments will be accepted, integrate with wallet providers, and ensure smooth conversion between digital assets and traditional money. This methodical planning manages risk, supports compliance, and prevents customers from defecting to better-prepared competitors. In this rapidly evolving space, strategic groundwork separates sustainable growth from expensive mistakes.

QR Codes and Programmable Money Are the Future Interface The next generation of payments is being built on secure QR standards and programmable money. Technologies like X9 QR codes let users pay across multiple rails—ACH, instant payments, cards, or wallets—with a single scan. This streamlines the customer experience while enabling programmable features like automated refunds and conditional payments that eliminate manual intervention. 

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Rich Carty from Remedy to dig into the realities of core technology contracts in banking and payments. Rich shares how financial institutions weigh tough choices when locked into long-term vendor agreements and why early planning is critical. He explains how most banks only revisit core contracts every few years, often finding themselves committed to outdated solutions for longer than they expect.

Rich points out that new technology and artificial intelligence are top of mind for many leaders. He sees demand for AI solutions rising fast, but notes that organizations remain cautious, balancing the urge to innovate with the need to avoid early missteps. Rich encourages institutions to seek advice, gather input from all departments, and focus on due diligence before making changes.

Throughout the conversation, Rich uses real stories to show the value of reviewing contracts and staying proactive. He highlights how the right approach can free up resources, improve vendor relationships, and help organizations adapt as the payments industry evolves.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE
Name: Rich Carty
What he does: Vice President, Business Development
Company: Remedy
Noteworthy: Rich helps banks and credit unions review, negotiate, and optimize technology vendor contracts, with a focus on core systems, renewals, and technology transitions.
Where to find him:https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-carty-24918918

KEY INSIGHTS

Start Contract Planning Three Years Ahead

Long-term vendor contracts shape how banks operate, often locking in core systems for up to a decade. Early planning is the best way to avoid getting stuck with outdated technology or unfavorable terms. 

Financial institutions that want options—like switching vendors or just negotiating a better deal—need to start the process two to three years before their current contract expires. This timeline accounts for vendor schedules, internal reviews, and the complexity of core system transitions. 

By moving early, organizations protect themselves from last-minute decisions and keep leverage at the table. The approach also gives teams time to gather input across departments and align technology with business goals. In a fast-moving payments landscape, a proactive timeline is the difference between staying ahead and falling behind.

Due Diligence Uncovers Savings and Prevents Regret

A thorough review of technology contracts can reveal hidden costs and new opportunities. Even long-standing vendor relationships deserve a second look, as loyalty doesn’t always mean the best price or terms. 

With due diligence, organizations spot gaps, compare options, and often negotiate better deals. This process can free up resources for growth, support new projects, or make room for future upgrades. Relying on familiarity or letting contracts auto-renew leads to missed savings and limits flexibility. 

By treating every renewal or transition as a strategic decision, financial institutions protect their budgets and set themselves up for smarter, more agile operations.

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Jordan Thaeler to explore how embedded payments lock merchants into costly, inflexible systems. Jordan explains why many software providers bundle payment services with their core products, leaving merchants with few choices and rising costs. He shares how this model drives up payment fees over time while reducing merchant leverage and support.

Jordan describes the risks of a market where software and payments are tied together. He uses examples like Toast and Shopify to show how merchants often pay much more than the market average, with little transparency or recourse. As more processing volume moves to embedded payments, Jordan argues that choice and competition are critical for a healthier payments ecosystem.

The conversation turns to dual pricing models and the global push for bank-to-bank payments. Jordan makes the case for more options and education, so merchants are no longer “hostages” to their software providers.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE
Name: Jordan Thaeler
What he does: Co-Founder
Company: POS+
Noteworthy: Known for exposing hidden payment practices and building tools that give merchants more choice in payment processing.
Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjthaeler/
Guest Company Website: https://www.posplus.org/

KEY INSIGHTS

Embedded Payments Can Trap Merchants in High-Cost Systems

When software providers bundle their own payment services into their platforms, merchants lose the ability to shop for better rates or support. Over time, these bundled arrangements drive up payment costs while locking businesses into a single provider, making it tough to switch even when fees rise or service drops. This lack of competition leads to higher margins for software companies, but often leaves merchants paying far above the market average. The friction of changing systems, along with limited transparency, means that many businesses end up stuck with unfavorable terms. The core insight is clear: without real choice and portability in payment workflows, merchants risk becoming hostages to their own software—paying more for less flexibility.

Choice and Transparency Lower Merchant Payment Costs

Giving merchants freedom to choose among payment providers can restore balance in the payments ecosystem. Integrating open payment workflows into popular software platforms allows businesses to negotiate better deals and demand improved service. When payment options are unbundled, outside experts and local providers can step in to educate merchants, offer support, and keep costs in check. This shift not only reduces the risk of inflated fees but also promotes honest pricing from software vendors, who must stand behind the true cost of their core products. In a landscape where margins are tight, especially for small businesses, having more transparency and options directly supports their bottom line.

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

While domestic payments are faster than ever, international transactions remain stuck in the past. In this episode, Monex Chief Economist John Min explains why cross-border payments are often slow, costly, and unpredictable.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE
Name: John Min, Ph.D
What they do: Chief Economist
Company: Monex
Noteworthy: John specializes in global payments, macroeconomic trends, and helps financial institutions navigate the complexities of cross-border transactions and foreign exchange.
Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-min-4941634/

Most community banks and credit unions rely on a chain of large correspondent banks, creating delays and opaque fees that frustrate customers and hurt businesses. This outdated system puts smaller institutions at a major disadvantage, risking the loss of deposits to larger competitors with more advanced technology.

John breaks down how emerging solutions like stablecoins and plug-and-play platforms are set to revolutionize the industry. He argues that by partnering with specialized providers, community banks can level the playing field to offer fast, transparent international payments. Adopting this new technology is no longer just an option—it's essential for protecting their deposit base, improving customer satisfaction, and unlocking new revenue.

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

AI is changing the world as we know it. I'm please to present a great conversation i had with Brian Keef of Nice Actimize who are a leader in many things, but AI in Banking. In this Wrestling Payments episode, host Joe Casali interviews Brian Keefe, Manager of Portfolio Pre-Sales at Nice Actimize, about AI's transformative role in fraud detection and compliance. Brian addresses critical NACHA rule changes requiring institutions to monitor both incoming and outgoing ACH transactions, expanding beyond traditional outgoing-only oversight.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE

• Name: Brian Keefe
•  What they do: Manager, Portfolio Pre-Sales
•  Company: Nice Actimize
•  Noteworthy: Brian specializes in AI-driven fraud prevention and compliance for financial institutions, with expertise in cross-channel risk, monitoring, and regulatory adaptation.
•  Where to find him:https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianekeefe

KEY INSIGHTS

The AI Arms Race in Fraud Fraudsters now leverage AI to create synthetic identities and execute sophisticated attacks across multiple channels. Brian explains how criminals use AI tools like ChatGPT to mine data and build complete fake profiles, including deepfake photos. These coordinated groups share knowledge online and adapt quickly to new defenses. Traditional single-channel monitoring fails against these threats—institutions need cross-channel risk assessment covering ACH, checks, wires, and digital banking to spot patterns that isolated systems miss.

Explainable AI and Human Oversight Brian emphasizes that AI must be transparent, not a "black box." Financial institutions need explainable AI that shows why it flagged transactions, building trust with compliance teams and regulators. The "human in the loop" approach is essential—AI assists but doesn't replace experienced staff. As Brian notes: "AI should never replace what a human does, especially from the risk and compliance perspective." This partnership reduces false positives while maintaining regulatory compliance.

Practical Implementation Cross-channel monitoring has become mandatory as fraudsters exploit weaknesses across payment methods. By combining data from all channels, institutions get a complete risk picture and sharper alerts. Brian stresses continuous education through white papers and industry resources, noting that even conservative institutions must adapt because "fraudsters are always adapting and using the latest technology."

The key takeaway: AI should function as an assistant that enhances human expertise, helping teams work efficiently while staying ahead of sophisticated threats in our rapidly evolving digital payments landscape.

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

EPISODE SUMMARY
In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Sarah Stapp, Chief Commercial Officer, and Geoff Scott, Head of Compliance, at Aeropay. Together, they dive into the ongoing push and pull between sales and compliance in the world of pay by bank, exploring how teams can move fast without leaving risk behind.

Sarah and Geoff discuss the growth of pay by bank in the United States, noting how new technologies and consumer demands are accelerating change. Sarah explains how sales teams must balance ambition with clear understanding of compliance boundaries, while Geoff shares his approach to building programs that enable innovation without putting the business at risk. They tackle challenges around third-party relationships, prohibited industries, and the tightening regulatory lens following high-profile industry failures.

The conversation highlights how the lines between banks and fintechs continue to blur. Both guests agree that effective payment operations depend on collaboration and a willingness to adapt. They close by reflecting on the importance of innovation, the evolving regulatory landscape, and how staying informed keeps both sales and compliance moving forward together.

GUESTS-AT-A-GLANCE

Name: Geoff Scott
What they do: Head of Compliance
Company: Aeropay
Noteworthy: Geoff brings deep experience in banking and risk management, guiding fintechs through compliance challenges as pay by bank and digital payments evolve.
here to find him: LinkedIn 

Name: Sarah Stapp
What they do: Chief Commercial Officer
Company: Aeropay
Noteworthy: Sarah helps financial institutions strengthen risk management, streamline compliance, and train teams to navigate ACH and payment operations with confidence.
Where to find her: LinkedIn

KEY INSIGHTS
Compliance Enables Growth—If You Build for “Yes”
Compliance doesn’t have to mean slowing down new ideas or blocking deals. The most effective compliance programs help operations move forward by focusing on how to reach a safe “yes” rather than defaulting to a hard “no.” This approach starts with clear frameworks, strong collaboration between sales and compliance teams, and early qualification of potential risks. When both sides understand the rules and communicate openly, teams avoid wasting resources on non-starters and instead build processes that let innovation flourish. By getting ahead of gray areas, documenting use cases, and educating everyone involved, organizations can streamline approvals and stay nimble in a changing payments landscape. Compliance, when structured proactively, becomes a business driver—not just a backstop.

Payments Innovation Is Driven by Consumer Demand
The payments industry constantly evolves because consumers want faster, easier ways to move money. Real-time money movement, instant payouts in gaming, and new payment methods like pay by bank all reflect this demand for speed and convenience. Merchants compete to keep users on their platforms, while financial institutions and fintechs race to roll out new options. This environment rewards those who listen to consumer behavior and adapt quickly. At the same time, teams must balance this pace with compliance and risk management. The firms that thrive are the ones that treat consumers as the starting point for innovation, shaping systems to meet user needs while maintaining clear operational guardrails.

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response)

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, Jim Colassano, Senior Vice President at The Clearing House, joins host Joe Casali to discuss the transformative impact of the Real-Time Payments (RTP) network. He explains how RTP is revolutionizing how businesses manage payments, particularly on the send side. Jim highlights the shift from traditional batch processing to instant payments, emphasizing the network's ability to handle various transactions, from payroll and refunds to emergency funds and cash flow management.

Jim details how RTP's speed, finality, and 24/7 availability are key advantages over older systems. He addresses common misconceptions and objections, assuring listeners that RTP offers solutions for businesses of all sizes. Jim also dispels the myth of a single "killer app," demonstrating how RTP's versatility allows for diverse applications tailored to individual needs.

Finally, Jim discusses the network's growth and the increasing demand for real-time payment capabilities. He encourages businesses to explore the RTP network and its potential to solve their payment challenges. Jim emphasizes the importance of embracing new technologies to improve efficiency and customer experience.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE 

Name: Jim Colassano 

What he does: SVP, Product Development and Strategy 

Company: The Clearing House

Noteworthy: Payments expert with experience spanning from lockboxes to real-time innovations.

Where to find him: LinkedIn

KEY INSIGHTS

The Power of Real-Time Payments Extends Beyond Speed

While speed is a significant advantage of RTP, the benefits extend to transparency, finality, and 24/7 availability. These features address long-standing challenges with traditional payment systems, like clearing delays and revoked funds. This creates a more efficient and reliable payment experience for businesses, allowing for better cash flow management and improved customer satisfaction. The always-on nature of RTP also enables businesses to handle time-sensitive transactions and emergencies effectively, regardless of traditional banking hours. This shift towards real-time information and settlement creates a more robust and responsive payment ecosystem.

Moving Beyond the "Killer App" Mentality

The RTP network isn't about finding one perfect use case; it's about solving a multitude of payment problems. Its flexibility allows for customization across diverse industries and business sizes. This adaptability eliminates the need for a one-size-fits-all approach, allowing businesses to tailor solutions to their specific needs. Whether it's streamlining payroll, expediting refunds, or managing large-dollar transactions, RTP offers a versatile platform to address various pain points within the payment process. This approach focuses on solving practical problems rather than searching for a single, elusive "killer app."

Early Adoption and the Power of Experience

Getting started with RTP is key to unlocking its full potential. The network's value becomes clear with repeated use, as businesses discover new applications and efficiencies. Starting with internal processes, or "eating your own dog food," allows banks and organizations to gain firsthand experience and understand the benefits before offering services to clients. This approach not only improves internal operations but also provides valuable insights to tailor solutions and address client needs effectively. The high rate of repeat usage demonstrates the network's value and encourages wider adoption.