Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth examine the beloved mythology of in-state recruiting, exploring whether building championship teams with local talent is still viable in modern college basketball.

Puerto Rico Recap & Recruiting Updates

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike discuss IU's successful exhibition trip to Puerto Rico, highlighting impressive performances and what the games revealed about the team's offensive potential. They also touch on the busy recruiting landscape, upcoming visits, and how the new coaching staff is filling their recruiting pipeline with diverse targets across multiple positions.

The Dorothy Complex

[15:00-30:00]

Using "The Wizard of Oz" as a framework, Bob and Mike dive into the mythology surrounding in-state recruiting. They identify three distinct versions of the argument:

• The extreme position: Load up on as many in-state kids as possible
• The moderate approach: Swap in a few three-star locals at the margins
• The observational stance: Frustration over missing elite in-state prospects

The discussion explores whether kids even want to stay home anymore, given changing family backgrounds and transplant populations.

The Numbers Game

[30:00-45:00]

Mike presents data showing Indiana's changing talent production compared to basketball hotbeds like Georgia and Texas. Key revelations include how Indiana now produces only 2-3 top 100 players annually versus seven in peak years, and the geographic shift of elite talent toward the South and Southwest. The conversation covers population migration, infrastructure changes, and why the "inexhaustible pool" theory no longer holds.

Modern Coaching Realities

[45:00-60:00]

Bob examines what coaches actually consider when balancing in-state versus national recruiting, using Matt Painter's Purdue model as a case study. Topics include:

• System-based recruiting versus talent acquisition
• The "who can you get" factor in roster construction
• How the transfer portal changes long-term planning
• Why relationships with local coaches still matter

Championship Blueprints

[60:00-75:00]

Analysis of national championship rosters reveals that 85% of starters over the past 25 years were from out-of-state. Even programs in talent-rich areas like Virginia had zero in-state starters on their title team. The discussion examines whether building around local talent is mathematically feasible for championship contention.

Indiana's Path Forward

[75:00-End]

Bob and Mike conclude with strategies for maintaining in-state connections while pursuing elite talent nationally. Topics include using walk-on programs strategically, staying visible in local communities, and why the current coaching staff's diverse recruiting approach makes sense for IU's championship aspirations.

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Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth are joined by Scott Caulfield of Crimson Cast to examine the Big Ten's championship drought, exploring why the conference has failed to produce an NCAA basketball champion since Michigan in 1989.

Main Topics

Scott's Origin Story & Bloomington Memories

[00:00-15:00]

Scott shares his unlikely journey from New York City to small-town Bloomington and the formative experiences of growing up around IU's campus. Stories include legendary arcade haunts, meeting Galen at the campus radio station, and surviving Bob Knight's actual college class - complete with unforgettable encounters that reveal Knight's intimidating presence up close.

One Shining Moment Obsession

[15:00-30:00]

Scott reveals his decades-long ritual of recording and analyzing every One Shining Moment video since the early 1990s. The conversation explores:

• Why this montage is unique in all of sports

• How production values have evolved over the years

• What the footage reveals about which conferences actually matter in March

• The painful reality of Big Ten representation in recent years

The Numbers Don't Lie

[30:00-45:00]

A data deep-dive into Big Ten tournament performance since 1987 reveals a troubling pattern of near-misses and missed opportunities. The discussion examines whether the conference's multiple championship game appearances represent bad luck or something more systemic about Big Ten basketball.

Coaching & Conference Leadership

[45:00-60:00]

Questions about the Big Ten's coaching hierarchy and whether the conference has the leadership to compete with other major conferences.

Topics include:

• Tom Izzo's role as unofficial conference dean

• Resistance to modern changes like NIL and transfer portal

• How other conferences are embracing younger, more adaptable coaches

• Whether the Big Ten needs a changing of the guard

The Talent Gap

[60:00-75:00]

Eye-opening recruiting data reveals stark differences between Big Ten rosters and championship-caliber teams from other conferences. The analysis covers geographic talent distribution, position-specific recruiting challenges, and why the conference continues to lose homegrown stars to programs outside the Midwest.

Indiana's Championship Window

[75:00-End]

Scott makes the case for why Indiana might be uniquely positioned to break the Big Ten's championship drought. The conversation covers the program's potential advantages in the modern college basketball landscape and whether IU can finally give Big Ten fans something to celebrate in One Shining Moment.

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Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth field listener questions on a range of sports and non-sports topics to fill the summer dead period in college basketball, covering everything from bison merchandise to movie recommendations.

Main Topics

Summer Check-ins & Countdown Clock

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike catch up on summer travels - Bennett's first beach trip and chocolate-fueled Hershey Park adventures. Mike reveals they're officially under 30 days until college football kickoff. They also plug Perry Metz's YouTube channel featuring digitized classic media interviews from the 70s and 80s.

Bison Merchandise & Black Uniform Debate

[15:00-25:00]

Questions about the bison costume unveiling (August 30th against Old Dominion) and Homefield Apparel's early merchandise drop. The conversation shifts to IU's relationship with black uniforms, including memories of the infamous 1997 disaster against Kentucky and why black works for both traditionalists and recruits.

Tony's Coaching Questions

[25:00-45:00]

Jokes about Tony Adragna’s "massive NIL resources" at Greenwood Christian Academy lead to discussions about championship expectations. Questions about whether recruits automatically get ranking boosts after committing to major programs spark analysis of causation vs. correlation in recruiting rankings.

IU Roster Deep Dive

[45:00-65:00]

Detailed breakdown of how IU's wing rotation might work with multiple versatile players. Discussion covers why the program didn't pursue another traditional center more aggressively, examining DeVries' offensive philosophy and the constraints of roster building in the portal era.

Basketball Philosophy Questions

[65:00-85:00]

Debates over NCAA tournament expansion and whether Bob Knight's motion offense could work in the modern game. Topics include shot clock constraints, the evolution of dribble penetration, and how defensive adjustments have changed offensive spacing.

Movies & Random Fun

[85:00-End]

The episode lightens up with Bob and Mike's top 10 films since 2000, discussions of timeless movies, and personal questions about technology predictions. Things get silly with dream pet choices - Bob wants a monkey butler while Mike strategically picks a red panda to score marital points.

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Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth dive deep into the shadowy world of negative recruiting in college basketball, exploring the tactics, effectiveness, and ethics of programs steering players away from rival schools.

Main Topics

Sports Dead Period & Pacers Reflection

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike discuss the dreaded summer sports lull and reflect on the Indiana Pacers' surprising playoff run. They examine the team's selfless ball movement, Tyrese Haliburton's devastating injury, and what the season meant for bringing fans back to NBA basketball after years away.

Negative Recruiting Parallels to Politics

[15:00-25:00]

Drawing parallels to political campaigning, Bob and Mike establish how negative recruiting works as a persuasion contest. They discuss:

• Key differences between political ads and recruiting (multiple "candidates," shadow operations)
• The concept of "kamikaze" recruiting to prevent rivals from landing recruits
• Strategic timing of when to go negative in recruitment battles

The Intelligence Game

[25:00-35:00]

The conversation turns to how programs gather intelligence on recruits and families. Topics include:

• Assistant coaches' extensive networks and relationship-building
• Understanding family dynamics and decision-makers
• The role of third-party surrogates like AAU coaches
• How specific intel can get (down to restaurant preferences)

Variables & Vulnerabilities

[35:00-45:00]

Using a comprehensive list of recruiting factors, they explore how different variables create opportunities for negative recruiting. The discussion covers playing time, facilities, academics, party scene, geography, and more, emphasizing how each recruit's priorities differ dramatically.

The Scott Drew vs. Bob Knight Story

[45:00-55:00]

Bob and Mike recount the legendary bathroom confrontation where Bob Knight cornered Scott Drew over negative recruiting materials. This story illustrates the tensions between established programs and upstart challengers trying to disrupt the recruiting landscape.

Player Compensation Era & IU's Fresh Start

[55:00-End]

The discussion shifts to how NIL has changed recruiting dynamics and examines IU's situation under the new coaching staff. They analyze recent comments about fan expectations and how confident leadership can address external criticism.

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Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth are joined by Dr. Galen Clavio and former IU Student Body President Cooper Tinsley to explore how the bison mascot made its return to Indiana University.

A Historic Recording Setup

[00:00-05:00]

A first for the show - recording with Cooper calling in from Paris during his study abroad. Cooper served as IU's 77th Student Body President after transferring from Alabama, where he only lasted one semester before realizing IU was where he belonged.

Cooper's Path to Student Leadership

[05:00-15:00]

Cooper walked through his journey from Alabama transfer to student government leader, explaining how communication (or lack thereof) was often the biggest challenge in student government. His presidency was notably successful with unusually good cooperation between the executive and congressional branches.

How the Bison Movement Started

[15:00-25:00]

The perfect storm began in fall 2024 when IU football's incredible season created unprecedented campus unity. Cooper had a conversation with Athletics Director Scott Dolson about how football was bringing students together like nothing had in years. Learning that the original bison mascot came from student government action in the 1960s, Cooper decided to follow that historical playbook.

Galen's Years-Long Campaign

[25:00-35:00]

Galen explained how multiple groups had been working toward this goal independently:

• Homefield Apparel's bison merchandise starting around 2015-2016
• Professor Paul Gutar's grassroots campaign with merchandise
• Galen's "Bring Back the Bison" advocacy on Crimson Cast
• Athletics department's growing interest

All these efforts converged at exactly the right time.

The Student Government Battle

[35:00-45:00]

What Cooper thought would be a quick, fun vote turned into a three-hour debate lasting until midnight. The main opposition centered around fears of bringing back the original 1960s costume, which everyone agreed was genuinely terrifying. Cooper's brilliant move: posting an Instagram poll during the meeting that got 750+ responses in three minutes, with 70-80% student support.

Making the Case for Skeptics

[45:00-55:00]

Galen laid out the three-part argument for the bison:

• Historical connection to Indiana (bison territory, Buffalo Trace, state seal)
• Gives the "Hoosier" name a visual identity it's always lacked
• Commercial necessity - most successful college programs have mascots

The Bigger Picture

[55:00-End]

Cooper shared how Alabama integrated their mascot into the entire university experience, not just sports.

The group discussed how the bison could serve multiple generations - from young kids meeting the mascot to alumni having a consistent symbol to rally around. Galen reflected that if contributing to bringing back the bison is his main legacy at IU, he'd be satisfied with that impact.

And much more …

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Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth examine how the transfer portal and NIL have fundamentally altered the landscape for mid-major teams and their ability to pull off NCAA tournament upsets.

[0:00-5:00] Introduction & Producer Welcome

• Introduction of new producer William McDermott
• Discussion of recent Indy 500 race
• Setup for main topic on March Madness becoming "less mad"

[5:00-15:00] The Old Formula for Mid-Major Upsets

• Analysis of Mercer's 2014 upset victory over Duke as the archetypal example
• Two key historical advantages identified:
• Experience advantage: Mercer's starting five had 20 years combined college experience vs Duke's 10 years
• Roster continuity: Four of Mercer's starters played together since 2012 (90+ games as a unit) vs Duke's 14 games together
• Historical pattern of upsets featuring experienced, cohesive mid-major teams against talent-heavy but inexperienced major programs

[15:00-30:00] Transfer Portal's Devastating Impact on Mid-Majors

• Stark statistics: 80% of quality mid-major players (starters averaging 10+ PPG) now transfer up
• Conference-by-conference breakdown:
• Southern Conference: Only 1 of 11 top returning players staying
• Missouri Valley Conference: Just 3 of 15 top players returning (80% bleed rate)
• The "dual challenge": Mid-majors lose their best players while also losing potential replacements to major programs

[30:00-40:00] The New Minor League Reality

• Mid-majors now function as a development system for power conferences
• Power conference coaches no longer need to gamble on unproven recruits
• Can simply observe and poach players who prove themselves at lower levels

[40:00-50:00] Alternative Models for Future Success

• "Ocean's Eleven" approach: Assembling rosters from multiple transfer sources (Indiana State 2024 example)
• Coach-led transfers: Bringing entire successful programs up levels (Ben McCollum at Drake example)
• Systematic advantages through coaching and scheme rather than talent accumulation

[50:00-55:00] Looking Forward & Market Adaptation

• Recognition that upsets will become increasingly rare
• Alternative postseason opportunities like NIT may gain importance
• College basketball still in flux with final competitive equilibrium yet to be established

The episode ultimately suggests that while the magic of March may be diminishing, mid-major programs that can adapt to this new reality may still find ways to compete—just not in the same David vs. Goliath fashion that made college basketball's greatest upsets so memorable.

Resources:

George Martin : https://youtu.be/h3AY1CVUgJw?si=JQRdg3o2zh7bQkzM

Delta force theme Indy 500: https://youtu.be/CSzgwCql_mo?si=X8_eZQgvLUNhRwED

Sam Posey: https://youtu.be/8I7gKuoEMCM?si=1sXoeRtSeZh0tfLg

Boom Baby: https://youtu.be/xRXScx4gsYk?si=zJkZ17XDiwCKuwZt

Wonder Indiana: https://blog.library.in.gov/wander-indiana-let-your-wanderin-spirit-come-on-thru/

Mercer: https://youtu.be/oNWe8kqBRlg?si=rd-Kj6oW_TncPaUP

Lehigh: https://youtu.be/06c1eOgZQeo?si=xuptNn-XPkR55hFZ

Oceans 11: https://youtu.be/imm6OR605UI?si=lFwM-60fR4Glp8zM

Original Oceans 11: https://youtu.be/ppVby97BNiw?si=xqTcDBbfNUbREbIb

The End (Beatles): https://youtu.be/12R4FzIhdoQ?si=HjosVjomRxmIgHqN

Her Majesty (Beatles): https://youtu.be/12R4FzIhdoQ?si=EP5GhjVo9e0zeKEi

Mid Major Donor Article 

Insights from Top NIL Supporters at the Group of 5 Level

Seed Records

Records for every seed in March Madness from 1985 to 2025

Mid Major Viability Article

No One Mourns the Mid-Majors: Can Mid-Major Schools Survive Under the House v. NCAA Settlement Agreement, or is College Athletics Destined to Downsize? — Kentucky Law Journal

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In this episode, Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth dive into the chaotic world of the college basketball transfer portal, examining how it's reshaping rosters across the country and what strategies teams are employing in this new landscape.

After celebrating Mike's milestone birthday and discussing the historic announcement of the first Villanova alum Pope, Bob and Mike jump into their analysis of how different programs are using the portal to rebuild, reload, or completely transform their teams.

Portal Strategies and Team Transformations

Bob and Mike analyze several programs that have taken different approaches to transfer portal recruitment:

• Iowa: Under new coach Ben McCollum, they've essentially imported his successful Drake team, bringing in key players like Bennett Sturtz while implementing a dramatically different style from Fran McCaffrey's up-tempo approach

• Illinois: Bruce Underwood is building what Mike calls "the Serbian junior national team," bringing in international talent including Andre Cekovic (Peja Stojakovic's son) and the Tshiebwe brothers

• Louisville: After struggling last season, they've addressed their shooting deficiencies by adding marksmen Isaac McNeely and Ryan Conwell to complement their incoming freshman stars

• St. John's: Rick Pitino has assembled what could be "an Elite Eight level starting lineup just from the portal," showcasing how quickly a roster can be transformed

• Purdue: Despite losing Cam Heide and Ethan Morton, they've maintained continuity around their core of Braden Smith, Fletcher Loyer, and promising international talent

They also discuss how some programs like North Carolina and Baylor have been gutted by portal departures, highlighting the double-edged nature of this new era in college basketball.

Indiana's New-Look Roster

The final segment focuses on Indiana's roster under new coach Darren DeVries:

• DeVries has prioritized shooting ability, building a roster where "nine of these ten guys are pretty solid definitely in that 35-ish percent or above range" from three-point range

• Players like Lamar Wilkerson, Tucker DeVries, and Tayton Conerway bring complementary skills that should create better spacing and more dynamic offensive possibilities

• Bob and Mike discuss potential lineup combinations, with Conerway and Connor Enright potentially sharing point guard duties, Reed Bailey anchoring the frontcourt, and shooters spreading the floor

• Unlike previous IU teams that appeared "robotic" on offense, they expect this group to play with more flow and freedom while maintaining defensive intensity

• They highlight the coaching staff's recruiting connections, particularly Kenny Johnson and Rod Clark's ties to elite AAU programs in the talent-rich "golden crescent" from the Northeast through the South

This entertaining and insightful episode provides a comprehensive look at how the transfer portal is reshaping college basketball, with particular focus on what it means for Indiana's future under Coach DeVries.

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Bob and Mike welcome Andy Bottoms from The Assembly Call to discuss the evolving world of bracketology and what the 2025 NCAA Tournament reveals about the future of college basketball.

This episode offers an insider's perspective on how bracketologists approach their craft, the metrics that matter most to the selection committee, and why the drama of bubble teams captures the public's imagination in ways similar to reality television.

The conversation explores how conference realignment has fundamentally altered tournament selection, creating a widening gap between power conferences and mid-majors.

Segment 1: The Rise of Bracketology as a Cultural Phenomenon

• Andy explains that bracketology has exploded in popularity partly because the selection process has become more data-driven and terminology has worked its way into mainstream broadcasts (7:00)
• Mike theorizes bracketology taps into the same psychological appeal as reality TV shows – the drama of inclusion and exclusion captures audience attention (19:00)
• The committee's increasing transparency through regular updates has transformed selection from a one-day event into a season-long narrative (20:30)
• Andy describes his process, noting the challenge isn't just analyzing metrics but predicting how a committee of 12 people will interpret them (28:00)

Segment 2: Power Conference Dominance and Mid-Major Disadvantages

• The 2025 tournament saw all four #1 seeds reach the Final Four, potentially reinforcing the committee's tendency to favor power conference teams (10:00)
• Andy expresses disappointment with how top mid-majors like Drake were treated on the seed list, noting how close they came to missing the tournament entirely despite outstanding seasons (59:00)
• Viewership for the 2025 tournament increased dramatically (approximately 20%), creating incentives for the committee to continue favoring matchups between power conference teams (67:00)
• Discussion of how conference realignment has made it nearly impossible for mid-majors to build nationally competitive programs as their best players get poached through the transfer portal (67:00)

Segment 3: Analytics and Future Implications

• The committee's use of metrics has evolved, with predictive analytics (like KenPom and Torvik) becoming increasingly influential in tournament selection (36:00)
• Teams now have to consider margin of victory in early-season games, creating a difficult balance between building their metrics and managing player minutes (42:00)
• Andy evaluates whether the chalky 2025 tournament was a blip or trend, suggesting mid-major disadvantages will continue while the dominance of #1 seeds might be an aberration (89:00)
• Debate about tournament expansion concludes that while it might benefit mid-majors, it would likely dilute the competitive quality and drama that makes March Madness special (94:00)

The episode provides valuable insight into how the modern selection process works while questioning whether the system is becoming too tilted toward power conferences. As the hosts note, the fundamental challenge remains the same: win games, beat good teams decisively, and build a strong enough resume to impress both the metrics and committee members.

On the mics: Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth with Andy Bottoms (The Assembly Call)

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Episode 29 offers a comprehensive analysis of Mike Woodson's four-year tenure as Indiana University's basketball coach, examining the factors behind his hiring, the challenges he faced, and the broader implications for college basketball coaching searches at traditional powerhouse programs.

Hosts Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth are joined by Josh Burton of Everything College Basketball to discuss how Woodson's departure represents a cautionary tale about bringing NBA coaches without college experience to the collegiate level, while also exploring how the transfer portal era is reshaping basketball programs at all levels.

Segment 1: The Challenge of NBA-to-College Coaching Transitions

• NBA-to-college coaching transitions have a mixed track record (Penny Hardaway, Juwan Howard, Mike Woodson), with most struggling to adapt to the complexities of the college game
• The college coaching environment requires significantly different skills than the NBA: recruiting, player development, NIL management, and relating to much younger athletes
• College basketball demands systems that maximize less developed players, while NBA coaching often assumes elite talent that can create their own opportunities
• Woodson faced a substantial age gap (often 40+ years) with his players, creating challenges in connecting with and developing young talent
• The role of a college coach as GM, recruiter, and developer requires much more multifaceted skills than NBA coaching positions

Segment 2: The Woodson Era's Strategic Failures

• Woodson's offensive system remained rooted in outdated basketball philosophy, featuring two traditional bigs clogging the paint rather than adapting to modern spacing concepts
• Indiana consistently ranked among the nation's worst in three-point attempt rate (321st, 350th, 351st, and 321st in his four seasons)
• Several talented guards (Tamar Bates, Kalib Banks, CJ Gunn) transferred away from Indiana and flourished elsewhere in systems that maximized their skills
• Woodson's inability to adapt his system to modern basketball led to predictable offensive struggles against teams that employed drop coverage defense
• Woodson's reliance on Trayce Jackson-Davis' individual brilliance masked tactical shortcomings early in his tenure

Segment 3: Recruiting Challenges and Program Direction

• While Woodson improved Indiana's recruiting profile compared to the Archie Miller era, he struggled to land elite guards after early success with Jalen Hood-Schifino
• Woodson went 0-for-31 on top-100 guard offers after Hood-Schifino committed
• Notable recruiting misses including Braelon Mullens, Liam McNeely, and Boogie Fland severely limited Indiana's ceiling
• The center-focused offensive style likely deterred elite guards from committing to Indiana
• Woodson's alleged lack of effort in recruitment (reportedly going months without contacting five-star in-state recruit Braelon Mullens) reflected broader questions about his commitment to the modern demands of college coaching

Segment 4: Legacy and Lessons for Blue Blood Programs

• Woodson's tenure represents a transitional period that did leave the program in somewhat better shape than he found it (went 2-2 against Purdue after Archie Miller went 0-7)
• Never had a losing season, made two NCAA tournaments, and raised Indiana's recruiting profile
• Traditional programs like Indiana must be willing to take bold coaching risks rather than "safe" options to return to elite status
• The transfer portal era makes program rebuilding potentially faster but requires coaches who fully embrace modern basketball philosophy and recruiting
• Indiana and other blue blood programs risk continued decline and fan apathy if they don't adapt to the changing landscape of college basketball

This episode provides a thoughtful examination of how the transition from NBA to college coaching often fails due to fundamental differences in the required skill sets and approaches. The discussion highlights how college basketball's evolution demands coaches who can adapt to modern offensive principles, navigate the transfer portal era effectively, and fully commit to the demanding schedule of recruiting.

The conversation serves as a valuable case study for athletic directors and programs considering similar hires, emphasizing the importance of selecting coaches with a deep understanding of the college game's unique dynamics rather than relying solely on professional pedigree or alumni connections.

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In this special live episode, hosts Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth break down Indiana's hiring of Darian DeVries as the program's 31st head basketball coach. The hosts dive into DeVries's background, coaching philosophy, and what Hoosier fans can expect moving forward with a mix of cautious optimism and analytical insight.

The conversation explores DeVries's impressive track record at Drake (where he won 25 games per season at a program that averaged just 13 wins before his arrival) and his promising single season at West Virginia. The hosts examine his offensive and defensive systems, recruiting success, and why IU fans should be excited about the future while maintaining realistic expectations.

What You'll Hear:

• Why DeVries's Drake teams overachieved compared to the program's historical averages by a remarkable margin
• How DeVries runs a modern five-out offense that creates space, emphasizes ball movement, and generates quality three-point shots
• Details on his defensive approach that emphasizes ball pressure, communication, and disrupting passing lanes
• The impact Tucker DeVries (his son and a potential transfer) could have on IU's roster
• Why DeVries might be able to turn the program around quickly with Indiana's NIL resources

This episode strikes a balance between enthusiasm for the future and an understanding that championship-level success takes time. As the hosts point out, DeVries wasn't necessarily on many fans' radar initially, but his track record of program-building and ability to win immediately at both Drake and West Virginia make him an intriguing hire for a program looking to return to national prominence.

Whether you're thrilled, skeptical, or somewhere in between about the hiring, this episode provides valuable context about what DeVries brings to Bloomington and what to watch for as he begins building his program at Indiana.

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