Yascha Mounk and Yanis Varoufakis discuss whether the dominance of large cloud-focused tech companies signals the arrival of a new economic order.

Yanis Varoufakis is an economist, politician, and the former Greek Minister of Finance. Varoufakis is the author of Another Now: Dispatches from an Alternative Present and Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism.

In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Yanis Varoufakis discuss whether the extraction of "cloud rent" by Big Tech heralds a return to an earlier, pre-capitalist form of commerce; the technological and economic future of Europe (and of the European Union); and the geopolitics of a new cold war between China and the United States.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry

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