This episode emerged from a private gathering in The Hague in the fall of 2024 with a small group of people who live in Israel — both Jewish and Palestinian, Jews and Palestinians who continue to share life. We’re pleased to invite you now to overhear this particular conversation, with the permission of all involved. It centered around the matter of intergenerational trauma and healing — in a land in which the traumas of two peoples are terribly, inextricably intertwined. Yochi Fischer is a historian, author and lecturer at the intersection of religion and secularism, memory and history, scholarship and creativity. Loaay Wattad is a lecturer, translator, and editor focused on children’s and adolescent literature in Arabic and also in Hebrew. It is a gift to experience the friendship between them, as well as the struggle. This, and the passionate interaction with others in the room that follows, holds complexity and nuance and persistent humanity that news from this part of the world rarely conveys. We were brought together by the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute.

Loaay Wattad is a Palestinian lecturer, researcher, translator, and editor and a Ph.D. candidate in the Department of Sociology and the School of Cultural Studies at Tel Aviv University. He is a member of the Maktoob translators’ circle, a group that translates works of literature from Arabic to Hebrew. He is the editor-in-chief of the Hkaya, a web platform centered around children’s literature.

Yochi Fischer is a historian and the deputy director of the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute, a senior research fellow at the institute, and head of its Sacredness, Religion, and Secularization Cluster. She also leads its Intellectual Journeys program.Her current research focuses largely on religion and secularization — she also does work on memory and history, and the connection between research and creativity.

Special thanks to Michael Feigelson, Shai Lavi, Rebecca Plumbley, and Philip Pieters of the Toussainthuis.

Find aFind an excellent transcript of this show, edited by humans, on our show page.

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