(Photo taken in front of the American Gothic House in Iowa and is jokingly meant to emulate the famous painting American Gothic. We don't usually dress like that! Or hold pitchforks!)

Richard Miller hosts a interview show called Never Not Here. Somehow we connected and he asked to interview me, not necessarily as an awakened being or teacher, but as a fellow spiritual aspirant. In the summer of 1967, when I was 17 years old, I was driving through Westport, CT with three friends in the car. One of them in the back seat was reading from a commentary on the Tibetan Book of the Dead by Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert (Ram Dass). A quiet but memorable realization dawned in me that there was such a thing as "enlightenment" and that realizing it was life's ultimate goal. I rather recklessly explored that possibility through drugs for a year, then saw the futility of that approach and learned Transcendental Meditation. I taught TM for 25 years and still meditate regularly but am not affiliated with any particular spiritual organization. I respect any of them which seem to offer genuine benefits to their participants.

Summary and transcript of this interview

Interview recorded 6/5/2010.

Other talks by or interviews of Rick on BatGap:

SAND 2019 - Knowledge/Reality is Different in Different States of Consciousness

2018 SAND Conference Q&A and Interview by Shakti Caterina Maggi

SAND 2017: "The Ethics of Enlightenment"

Talk at Berkeley Open Circle Center

SAND 2015: Science and Spirituality: Potential Allies in Discovering Truth

Interviewed by Fax Gilbert

YouTube Video Chapters:

00:00:00 - Welcome to Never Not Here

00:02:56 - The Growth of Transcendental Meditation in Fairfield

00:05:45 - A Diverse Spiritual Community in Fairfield

00:08:12 - The Blurring of Cultural Boundaries

00:11:23 - The Awakening Moment

00:13:59 - Sincerity and Genuine Practice

00:16:48 - The Profound Effects of Long Meditation

00:19:36 - The Process of Re-Entry from Meditation Retreats

00:22:28 - Unwinding Deep Stresses

00:24:52 - The Benefits of Dissolving Negative Experiences

00:26:35 - The Continuous Practice of Meditation

00:28:26 - The Reflection of Consciousness in the Nervous System

00:30:25 - Becoming a Better Reflector

00:32:21 - The African man's interpretation of the surroundings

00:34:31 - The Correlation of Concept and Experience

00:38:11 - The Presence of Babbling Saints and Articulating Experience

00:41:28 - Different Orientations and Experiences

00:45:27 - The Origins of Spiritual Traditions and Their Relevance Today

00:48:16 - The Qualities of Enlightenment

00:50:06 - Layers of Ignorance and the Essence of Consciousness

00:51:56 - Preferences and Enlightenment

00:54:03 - The Limitations of Conceptual Thinking

00:56:25 - Duality in Concepts: The Positive and Negative

00:58:40 - The Tragedy of Locked Perspectives

01:01:23 - Living in a State of Enlightenment

01:04:27 - Leaving the Incubator and Awakening

01:07:11 - The Illusion of Movement in Enlightenment

01:10:21 - Embracing Further Unfoldments in Education

01:13:33 - The Paradox of Seeking Answers

01:16:05 - Remembering the Nature of Thoughts

01:18:28 - Farewell for this Episode