Your conversation rates could be between 70 and 100 times better if you do this right. Lose the MQL metric and learn this: the brand creates the most demand.

In this episode, I interview Chris Walker, CEO at Refine Labs, about why his agency says no to most clients and the differences between performance and brand.

What we talked about:

- All about metrics: what to measure and what not to measure

- Finding and keeping talent and what agency talent does better than in-house

- Why brand is a tangible business metric

- Telling clients things they don’t want to hear for their own good

Resources we mentioned:

- Chris’s podcast is State of Demand Gen

To hear more from Innovative Agency owners, listen to The Innovative Agency podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on our website.