Restitutio

158 Dale Tuggy vs. Michael Brown Debate: Is the God of the Bible the Father Alone?

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Last night Michael Brown (PhD NYU) and Dale Tuggy (PhD Brown U) debated the question, “Is the God of the Bible the Father Alone?” Tuggy affirmed while Brown denied. Both scholars recognize the inspiration and the authority of scripture over tradition. Both made an effort to found their beliefs using the bible, reason, and history. The debate went for nearly three hours and followed this format:

  • Opening Statements (20 minutes each)
  • Rebuttals (12 minutes each)
  • 2 Rounds of Cross-Examination (7 minutes each)
  • Concluding Statements (5 minutes each)
  • Questions from the Audience (54 minutes total)

    • Please leave your comments below. Who do you think won? Were both sides fairly represented? Whom should Tuggy debate next?

    Here are my notes for the two opening statements.  They aren’t perfect, but I tried to keep up with each.

    —— Notes ——

    Dale Tuggy’s Opening Statement
    • The Father is the only God (1 Cor 8.6; John 8.54)
    • Jesus is not God but messiah, God’s agent (1 Tim 2.5)

      • compare 2 hypotheses in light of 6 indisputable facts

      1. NT believe Father is one God alone
      2. NT believes one God is the Trinity

      6 Indisputable Facts

      1. all 4 Gospels feature a “mere man” compatible main thesis
        • Jn 20.31 -> that’s it? nothing about Jesus being God
        • the word God nearly always refers to the Father and no word refers to the Trinity
          • they should sometimes use the word God to refer to the Trinity but they never do
          • in the NT God is nearly always the Father
          • no more than 8 texts where the term God refers to the Son
          • a human can be referred to with the title God
          • Jesus makes that point in Psalm 82
          • only the Father and Jesus are worshiped
            • no worship of the Trinity
            • no worship of all 3 persons-> no spirit!
            • Phil 2.11 says that Jesus’ worship is indirectly to God
            • by worshiping Jesus we worship the creator
            • that God is triune or tripersonal is never clearly asserted in the NT
              • poor Jewish theology is always assumed
              • Jesus never gets around to telling us that God is 3 persons in 1 essence
              • no controversy about the Trinity in the NT
                • Trinity theories always engender controversy
                • the NT controversies are over whether Jesus is messiah and whether non-Jews can be saved apart from Torah observance
                • no NT author lifts a finger to limit or qualify clear implications of the son’s limitations
                  • Jesus got his mission, authority, message, power, from God
                  • no author shows any embarrassment that Jesus is subordinate

                    • Jesus is a real human man

                    • w/ a real human mom
                    • but w/ God as his father
                    • he was brought into existence in the womb

                      • the one God is eternal

                      • why aren’t the NT authors at all concerned to exert the eternal existence of the son
                      • will grant pre-existence but not eternality for purposes of this debate

                        •  

                        Michael Brown’s Opening Statement
                        • not a catholic bone in my body
                        • Son of God is infinitely more than a glorified man
                          • this denies Scripture
                          • neuters the gospel
                          • a man dying for our sins is hardly a demonstration of God’s love
                          • son is fully divine
                            • can’t wrap our minds around the nature of God
                            • God is complex in his unity
                            • making a God based on our own limitations and perceptions
                              1. God shares his glory w/ no one (Is 42.8)
                                • in Rev 5, massive glory a
                                  • ...more
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