2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

Loyal Patron Gary suggested this old chestnut, selected by our Patrons as our first request of 2024! Somewhat reminiscent of the classic painting with which it shares its title, American Gothic is chock-full of excellent actors acting excellently, even though the movie itself is rather silly. We enjoyed talking about it. Thanks, Gary, for the request!

American Gothic (1988)

Episode 379, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we said we would wrap this month up with a request from a listener. This is 1987’s American Gothic, chosen by our patrons. It was a request from one of our patrons, Gary. So thank you, Gary, for this request. I was really happy to see it come up because I remember passing by this cover all the time on the shelves of the video store, being a little intrigued by it because it’s, it’s a takeoff on the actual American Gothic painting.

Where, you know, there’s a guy and a woman. Standing in front of an old house with a pitchfork and all that stuff. And but it’s a horror version and I’ve always been interested in seeing it had never picked it up And so I was really delighted to take this time to actually have an excuse to watch it How about you craig?

Did you ever seen it before? 

Craig: Yeah, I’m sure I have. I, I don’t, I didn’t have, like, specific memories of it, but when I started watching it again, I, I, I’ve seen this. To be fair, I think that we’ve had several requests 

Todd: for this movie. We probably have. The, Gary’s the one that I wrote down. Gotcha. Sorry, Gary.

It’s been a while. But 

Craig: yeah, I, I think that I had mentioned to you In the, in, you know, the cut stuff, that I had recently re watched it. It was streaming for free somewhere, and I recently re watched it, and I was like, That movie is weird. We really should talk about it at some point, because it’s, and, So, you know, uh, for our patrons, we, we give them our unedited conversations.

So they get to hear those before and after things, and, and I guess Gary picked up on it, Was like, yeah, do it. So we put it in the poll, and, uh, here we are. And, yeah, I had seen it before, and, Fairly recently, I think I had seen it before that, and I watched it again a few hours ago. It’s something. 

Todd: It sure is something.

Like I said, it’s a 1988. Or, uh, 87, depending on who you believe, either Wikipedia or, um, IMDb. I certainly wasn’t old enough to remember exactly. Directed by John Howe. Now, John Howe has a really interesting background. He’s directed a whole lot of stuff, just a range, I should say. He did horror, hammer things back in the 70s.

He was doing Disney stuff, like the Witch Mountain movies, which I remember loving as a kid. And we even did Watcher in the Woods, which he directed as well. And then, there’s quite a few stars in here, uh, and that’s one thing I can say really good about the movie, is some of the acting is quite good for the material that they were given.

I agree. We’ve got one of your favorites in here, Yvonne DiCarlo, Lily Munster. Yeah, I don’t 

Craig: know if I would say she’s a favorite, but I really like her. I liked that show when I was that, that and the Addams horror related, especiall so easily attainable beca in reruns all the time. Y I thought she was very be in this movie, she’s stil really looks, she looks l Got beautiful eyes and beautiful bone structure and I think she does well in this movie.

It’s weird. Yes. Okay, so there’s one There are several 

Todd: she was also mrs. Briggs in cellar dweller. 

Craig: Yeah, I do I remember because we looked her up. We’re like wait, that’s Lily Munster 

Todd: Well, you say there’s several like probably the most famous is Rod Steiger Who plays Pa, uh, to the Ma here, and he’s been acting since the fifties.

We’re talking, he was Judd Frye in the movie version of Oklahoma on the waterfront with Marlon Brando, right opposite Sidney Poitier in, in the heat of the night. And then in our, on our podcast, uh, Father Delaney and Amityville Horror. If you’re a fan of Mars Attacks, uh, that was out in the nineties, he was General Decker in there.

He, this guy’s great actor. He’s got a wide range. And I think, actually, he’s fantastic in this movie. He’s really good! He’s amazing. He elevates the material. I don’t think the material can be elevated too far, but he somehow manages to give it, I think, some of its most poignant scenes. And for a movie that otherwise would arise There’s almost no emotions in me.

With a couple exceptions. This guy’s scenes, holy crap, I actually for a moment, it felt real and I had a bit of sympathy for his character. And God bless you man, huge applause and hats off to you for pulling that off with this kind of writing. That’s 

Craig: what makes this movie work. And it’s not just him. This script is wacky.

And these actors approached it with all earnestness. They went for it. It comes across as over the top because the characters are written over the top, but they just go for it, and they take it seriously, and they do it well. Yeah. And it doesn’t really surprise me that this director did something like Watcher in the Woods and Escape from Witch Mountain, because I would argue that this movie is almost like fantasy.

As well. Yeah. This, they, the, the characters, the dumb characters, the fodder for the slaughter, they encounter this world, isn’t a real world. Like these, this is, this is a fantasy place. Like it almost feels like a dark fairy tale and, and the characters that they encounter in any real world scenario would seem absolutely bonkers.

And they are, but you believe that that’s just really how they are. They live in their own little world, and they’re weird, and that’s just it, and, and they, the actors commit. Rod Steiger, I recognized his name, I recognized him from everywhere. The guy that I recognized, or was most excited to see, uh, was Michael J.

Pollard. He’s been in tons of stuff, but I remember him from Scrooged. He was the sweet, homeless man who was kind of crazy. Kind of plays a similar character to what he’s playing here. And, uh, he ends up freezing to death, and it’s, it’s a very sad moment of the movie. But he’s been in a bazillion things. Uh, he’s been in, he’s done horror, he’s done lots of television, he’s done everything.

He was in House of a Thousand Corpses, I looked at, I mean, literally, a huge, huge, list of films and television that he’s been in and you’ll recognize him because he’s very unique and he has a unique voice and I, and I thought he did a great job. And then the girl, I don’t have her name written down. Who played Fanny?

Janet Wright. Janet Wright. Again, a character actress that I have seen in a million times. But, if you asked me, I don’t think I could name a single one. Like, I don’t know, she’s just that lady. I’ve seen her in a million things. She’s got a really distinctive look. She has a recognizable face. Uh huh. And, and I think she’s great in this movie.

Did you look up 

Todd: Teddy? No. William Hootkins. Again, a guy who I was like, I don’t know if I’ve seen him or not. No, you have seen him. He is Red Six in Star Wars. Oh. He is Major Eaton in Raiders of the Lost Ark. He is Eckhart in the Tim Burton Batman movie. Okay. Red Six, you know, he’s, I think you only really see him in the TIE Fighter during the major sequence at the end of the movie.

But, um, it’s weird, he’s like one of those bit characters in Star Wars that nevertheless, like You’re going down, you know, like everybody knows like that bit, that sequence of the movie, it’s so iconic and he’s in it. Actually, I think he was a fantastic actor too, in this film. A bunch of great actors in an, and it’s funny that you said the script is wacky and bonkers.

It is wacky and bonkers. It is nowhere near as wacky and bonkers as a lot of the stuff that we do. And I think what makes it so wacky and bonkers is that there’s such star power here and it’s filmed as a, you know, kind of a big budgety mainstreamy movie that it almost seems out of place amongst the fare we normally do.

If this were a Wes Craven picture or some low budget kind of seedier movie, we wouldn’t even think anything of it. We were like, yeah, this is just as bonkers as all those movies are, you know? Right. Because 

Craig: it’s a totally classic, I mean, it’s a classic setup. It’s classic, really. The only, really the only thing that it doesn’t follow as far as formula is concerned, is there is no opening kill.

I, I guess there’s an opening death, which, okay, so it opens up with this woman, her name is Cynthia, and she’s in a mental institution, but she’s getting discharged, and the psychiatrist is talking to her husband, and I think the psychiatrist is like, I feel like she shouldn’t be around people or something, and he’s like, oh, that’s okay, we’re just going on vacation with a bunch of people.

Okay. But we see, I don’t remember if it’s now, yeah. I 

Todd: don’t want to interrupt you, but the psychiatrist also, I mean, he’s a very recognizable face in a lot of movies. Did you? No, I didn’t recognize him. We did The Changeling, he was Sergeant Durbin in that, um, but in the IT miniseries back then, uh, in the 80s, Officer Neil.

Um, he was General West in Watchmen, and in the new Sonic movie I mean, the guy’s still acting. He’s in the new Sonic movie. He’s Father Zimmer. So, uh, I don’t know, I thought he looks He’s a nice looking guy. 

Craig: No, I mean, he’s in it so briefly, I didn’t even notice. 

Todd: Oh, it’s just a walk on role. Yeah, he’s one scene and 

Craig: done.

We find out the reason that she’s been institutionalized is because they had a baby and she was giving the baby a bath and she got distracted by a phone call and something burning in the kitchen and when she came back the baby had drowned. And that’s terrible. It’s heartbreaking. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s absolutely terrible.

It would be enough to break a person, I think. But, supposedly she’s better and she and her husband and four of their friends, two guys, two girls, Take a puddle jumper. I don’t, like, they’re gonna, they’re gonna go to a, they have, they have a, apparently one of them has a plane and a seaplane or whatever.

Yeah, right? Yeah, the husband. So, when I say it’s a classic setup, okay, so it’s these, you know, city folk, um, going on a trip out into the wilderness. In this case, it’s an island, and instead of their car breaking down, their plane breaks down, and they have to land at this island. And then they get mixed up with the locals and chaos ensues, and they start getting picked off one by one, and it’s so formulaic in that way, that then it becomes jarring how different it is.

Because these characters, these characters aren’t like, the hills have eyes. They’re not gritty. They are dowdy, middle aged people who are a family. But the way that they’re introduced, and then ultimately who their characters are, is just so bizarre. It feels surreal, like it feels like you’re in a dream, like what is 

Todd: happening?

Like they’re stuck in time. And, and you know, it’s really funny that you mentioned earlier, you know, I mean it’s not funny, it’s very apropos that you mentioned earlier, that this feels like a fairy tale, you know, it feels like they’re going to another world. This whole scene when they’re on the dock and they’re getting ready to go off, that called me back to April Fool’s Day.

Yep. Instead of on the dock getting ready to go on a boat to the island, they’re on the dock getting on a plane. And then, you know, they fly that plane over with the credits and the music, that is just like The Wicker Man. Uh huh. Which has a similar thematic thing, the city guy going into another world, really, where everything’s kind of different and follows their own rules and people there seem stuck in time and all that.

So it even calls back to these movies very directly, I think, uh, so it, you know, your assertion is very supported by I think very definite filmmaking choices here. And that’s how it feels. Like, they go to this island and like you said, instead of their car breaking down, the plane breaks down. They can’t get anywhere, so they need to look for help.

Uh, and so it is a classic horror movie setup. But like you said, unlike Wrong Turn or one of these other hillbilly like movies where everybody’s just crazy and monstrous and horrible, these people at least have Some kind of humanity, albeit an effed up, Well, Misguided sort of humanity. They’re 

Craig: odd. So, so they, what’s his name?

Jeff or whatever. I don’t know what their names are. It doesn’t matter. Uh, the husband tries to fix the plane, but it’s not working. They stay the night, and they’re all coupled off. There are three couples. And then the next morning, they get up. Go look for help cuz Jeff’s like it’s it’s messed up like I can’t fix it We need to find out and so they go off and I totally missed the part where they left one guy behind Yeah, I was so confused in like 20 minutes.

I’m like, where did that other guy go? 

Todd: Like he just one line. It was like Paul you stay behind and Yeah, 

Craig: he just, he just disappeared and then they never talked about him again until the very, well, they never talked about him again until the, the very end when they find him dead. Now, I, I have a suspicion because I read that that guy was supposed to be the lead of the movie.

The movie was supposed to follow him, but when he came in to shoot, he had like gotten beaten up in real life and his face was all messed up. So they real quick rewrote it to make. Cynthia, the, the main character. So I’m guessing they just couldn’t use him. Like they had to use whatever shots they had and then they just killed him off.

And you didn’t even see his face when it was his body. He’s facedown in a boat later when they 

Todd: find him. Yeah. Somebody else entirely actually is in that scene. Yeah, 

Craig: so anyway, whatever. I was really confused because I was like, where is he? All of a sudden one person’s gone But they find a house. Didn’t 

Todd: that raise some questions for you, too?

I’m like if he rewrote the script to suddenly center around Cynthia, there were some major rewrites going. Oh, yeah Yeah, Cynthia is so much a part of this story and her backstory and everything with the baby dying and the way the movie ends like I can’t even imagine it was certainly not just Oh, slip a woman in this role instead.

Right? 

Craig: No, it had to have been some serious rewrites. I don’t I don’t know. Who knows? Maybe that whole thing with Cynthia because it’s kind of a Yeah. A bookend, maybe it was something different entirely, who knows. That’s probably true. But they find, uh, this house, and they go in, they knock, but then nobody answers.

So they go in, and there’s nobody there. But it’s clear that somebody 

Todd: lives there! I know, this is so typical in these movies, right? People just help themselves into other people’s homes out in the middle of nowhere. Well this 

Craig: is Frickin Goldilocks and the three bears like don’t just go somebody obviously lives there Don’t just go in and start messing around in their house Like it’s different if it’s like evil dead where it’s clearly, you know an abandoned cabin Yeah, like nobody’s living there.

That’s that’s an entirely different story. But this place is tidy. It’s clean um, they open up a closet and there are like They’re old fashioned, but like, brand new clothes, and like, this wardrobe. Everything is like, pristinely cl clean, like there’s an old Victrola, um, and they pull out the They pull out the records, and they start playing one, and of course it’s like, you know, 1920s music, and they’re all dancing around like flappers, putting on these people’s clothes.

What are you doing? One for you, one for me. And now we’re cooking. Oh no, this is weird. What do you 

Todd: think? Huh? Alright! I had to laugh at this. Because isn’t it true that every 80s slasher movie that involves teenagers at some house or whatever, they always have to party by turning on the stereo and dancing awkwardly in front of it?

This was like, this felt like a parody of that scene. How many movies have we watched where this happened? But it was never like a Victrola and they’re dancing around and like mimicking Al Jolson. Yeah, and 

Craig: it’s, uh, god, they, uh, Cynthia wanders around, makes herself at home, and like, finds a bedroom. It’s got all kinds of baby stuff, and of course she’s got all this baby trauma, so she’s drawn to that or whatever.

And then they’re just sitting there dancing, and one of them like looks over their shoulder, and this Older man and woman both kind of portly a little bit are standing there and I don’t remember what they say The kids are like I say kids. I think they’re supposed to be in their 30s. Yeah, Jeff says like, oh, we’re so sorry If there’s any damage we’ll pay for anything and he apologizes profusely and the ma’s the mom is kind of like oh, no I don’t know.

She’s she’s hospitable and welcoming and the dad paw They only go by Ma and Pa. Oh God, which hits really close to home. I live in rural Missouri, you guys. 

Todd: You get this. 

Craig: This is not 

Todd: uncommon to me. It’s not even too far off from reality for sure. 

Craig: No, but They tell them that they can stay and Pa’s like, Oh yeah, I gotta, I don’t have anything because we don’t have electricity, we don’t have gasoline, we don’t have a radio, we don’t believe in all that stuff.

Well 

Todd: Pa’s really standoffish as compared to Ma. It’s these very sort of traditional roles where he’s the protector of the family, he’s the skeptical one. He’s the head. The head of the household. She is the, from the beginning of time up through the 1950s style housewife, right? Stay at home, be hospitable, be kind to strangers, you know.

Craig: Well, but, and, and they’re very conservatively dressed, like she’s in a very conservative dress that like covers her arms and is, is, you know, ankle length and she has her hair up in a bun and he’s like in coveralls and a hat and They look 

Todd: like they’re out of time, just like the house. 

Craig: They do look like they’re out of time and it’s reminiscent of the painting, the, the Movie is named after even though I thought that that painting was of a man and his wife forever.

It’s not that’s his daughter Did you know that? No, 

Todd: I didn’t know that 

Craig: it is 

Todd: Because the man does look like, you know, 150 years old 

Craig: But it’s that similar kind of very rural very conservative look, you know comparable to like fundamentalists Uh, in, in the United States and the Amish kind of, or Mennonites, that kind of look.

And they have an awkward dinner where they have to pray beforehand and then Ma chastises Cynthia for not eating her food and is like, Young lady, I can’t abide the wasting of good food. Now let’s see you wipe the platter clean like your friends done. Don’t you want to be in the clean plate club?

They’re weird, they also kind of talk to these people as though they’re children, and then, I don’t know, the girls go off into some other room, or Cynthia goes off, yeah, Cynthia goes off into some other room, and this person peeks from around a Venetian screen, or something, a corner. She’s in the kids room.

She’s like, yeah, she’s like, hi. And she comes out and she introduces herself and she is dressed in like a pink baby doll outfit with white bobby socks and black patent leather shoes. 

Todd: We’re talking actual baby doll. We’re not talking about like lingerie. 

Craig: Right, right, right. And a ribbon in her hair. And she introduces herself, you know, they chat briefly and I think that Cynthia asked her how old she is, and she says, I have a birthday coming up, and I’m going to be 12.

This woman is 50 if she is a day. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s bizarre. Like, I don’t, I mean, of course, it’s bizarre, and we just go with it. But I did wonder, how did this woman get Through all of this time, uh, do the, is it just always her 12th birthday as far as she’s concerned? I mean, it’s a whole other level. It’s one thing if you’re stunted in, in a, you know, childlike way.

You’re just kind of kept that way by your parents the whole time, even though you’re obviously 50. But it’s another thing to actually believe that you’re 12 years old and have been for so long. 

Craig: But if you didn’t know anything else. And that’s why I mentioned that, that Ma and Pa talk to these other grown adults like they’re children.

Like they scold them like they’re children and tell them to clean their plates and stuff. God, I can’t believe I’m even putting this much thought into it, but if this, these two people, Ma and Pa, raised these children from infancy and never stopped treating them like children, wouldn’t that stunt their 

Todd: development?

It would. I don’t think you’d still think you were 12 years old when, you know, 50 years went by, but But yeah, I mean, I think you would still act, I, presumably, yeah, you’d still act like a child, think like a child, maybe? Although Doesn’t everyone get rebellious in their teenage years and say, F this? I don’t know.

I don’t know. If you didn’t have Maybe you 

Craig: need outside influence for that. That’s what I was going to say. If you have no outside influence, I’m not sure. But, what I want to say about this is that this woman clearly believes that she is a child and this actress commits to it so hard that it comes across as like real psychosis.

Yeah. It also, especially for her, but really for the others, because they reveal them slowly. But there are actually three children. Yeah. This, this woman, I felt bad for her. A lot of the time. Yeah. Because it really, like, she’s wicked and evil and does terrible things. But she also has an innocence about her.

And a naivete, like, she’s just kind of surprised, so easily surprised by things when people do something that is unexpected, she’s genuinely surprised and genuinely shocked and you can see it in her face and she’s very wide eyed and she, uh, she’s a big lady. She’s tall. She looks like a linebacker, but she has a soft face and beautiful eyes.

Yeah. And she comes across as very childlike, and it’s weird! 

Todd: It is, and honestly, this is, again, one of those points where a poor actor in this scenario would make this way cheesier and dumber than it ends up coming across. It’s still, you know, it’s still ultimately silly, but you do have sympathy for her at a lot of different points in this movie, and that’s one thing I’ve got.

I think the movie’s got going for it as there are moments here where suddenly I did kind of snap into a, as bizarre and dumb and as this is, and even as how horrible as these people are, I did feel sympathy for the characters at different moments. There’s a point a little bit later, I don’t want to jump too far ahead, but there’s a point very shortly after this where Lin One of the gals and Cynthia are outside, uh, standing by a tree and talking and Linda just outright tells Cynthia She’s like this this girl.

Did you see her? She’s ugly and she’s dressed in a horrible dress and yada yada yada What they don’t know is that Fanny’s around the corner behind another tree Overhearing all this and she starts crying and I was like, oh god, that’s horrible for anyone to hear Yeah, no, let alone this poor 

Craig: And Lin is a bitch, like, that’s her, that’s her only character trait, bitch, all the time.

But what she says is really horrible and very hurtful, especially if you have the mindset of a child. Like, she goes hard, like, calm down, you don’t even know these people. And she’s calling them freaks and like, how can you even bear to look at them? And she specifically says something about how hideous.

Fanny’s faces. Oh my god. The only thing I think that you skipped was Fanny kind of takes a shine to Jeff Ma and Pa make them all go to bed And they make the boys stay in one room and the girls stay in one room And when they get up in the morning Rob, who’s just one of the other guys The dude bro Goes for a walk first thing in the morning He comes across Fanny pushing What is clearly a man In an enormous swing Like enormous.

That thing had to be what? Fifteen, twenty foot tall. It’s a swing 

Todd: you would build for your stunted children who are now the size of adults. It’s very sturdy. I guess. 

Craig: It’s enormous. It’s like a trebuchet or something. It’s huge. And it swings out over a cliff, which is dangerous, but awesome. When I was a kid, my, my grandpa, my mom’s dad lived on a farm, and uh, he made me a rope swing with just like a plank seat.

Uh, that was on a tree that was on a hill like that. So when you would, you know, swing back, you were very close to the ground. But when you would swing out, you were way up high in the air, and it was really cool. And I loved it. 

Todd: Probably would never do that today. Right? 

Craig: Probably not. Especially like, I remember that rope was so old.

Like I can’t believe it never broke, but I loved it. And I loved my grandpa. He was such a cool guy. So Fanny’s like, Oh, hi Rob. Hi, Rob. Hi. Hiya, Fanny. Whatcha doin up so early, Rob? Nothin much. Just walkin around. Who’s your friend? He’s not my friend. He’s my brother. Name’s Woody. Like President Wilson. You wanna ride in our swing?

Do ya, Rob? Sure, why not? Oh boy! Rob’s gonna ride a swing! Rob’s gonna ride a swing! Rob’s gonna ride a swing! It’s so consistent, and they commit to it so hard. Like, the mask never drops. Yeah. Um, and that’s impressive. Character acting is not easy. People think, oh, they’re just being goofy, they’re just being silly.

No, being funny is hard. It’s way harder. Then playing things straight, playing things straight is easy. So to commit to this kind of character, and I’ve only ever had to do it once. And I got a lot of compliments for it. I probably would never be cast in that role again, because I played a mentally challenged person and that’s such a debate about representation and whatnot these days.

I probably wouldn’t get cast, but yeah, I tried. To be very truthful in my representation because I at the time was working with children with special needs. This was before I started teaching in high school. I was done with school, but I graduated mid year and so, you know, I was just subbing until the next year when I could get a full time position and I spent, I don’t know, months in a second grade special education classroom and I, you can’t help but observe those kids and, and they were such wonderful kids.

But they had quirks and things that were consistent and I tried to play on those and like I said, I got compliments at the time. I don’t know how it would be received today, but it’s not 

Todd: easy. Was that a mice and men by 

Craig: chance? No, it was a one act. Uh, I don’t even remember what it was called. It was just a two person, uh, one act.

It was two people. I played opposite my sister. We played a special needs brother and sister who were also in an incestuous relationship, and the sister was pregnant. 

Todd: Oh, Jesus. 

Craig: And the director wanted us to kiss, and we said, no. And the director went on to be my sister’s.

Todd: There are layers there to unpack, but anyway, let’s not. 

Craig: Good times. Okay. So anyway, uh, Rob finds them swinging and Fanny’s like, Oh Rob, it’s so cool. This is my brother, Woody. And it’s the guy from Scrooge. I can’t remember his name. For the 

Todd: longest moment, I thought she was pushing a corpse on that swing. It was a very, he was very still, it was such an odd choice to not.

Show his face and to have him just completely still with his head down from the back for so long and and unresponsive So bizarre and then he just hops off and like like it’s nothing I was like that was weird And he’s 

Craig: very animated and he’s very childlike again. I assume this man is in his 40s or 50s Yeah, he has white hair, but he acts like a kid And he, he acts believably like a kid.

He’s got a very childlike nature about him. And they talk to him and they’re like, Do you wanna ride in our swing? And he’s like, uh, sure, I guess, whatever. And they’re like, Rob’s gonna ride in our swing! Rob’s gonna ride in our s It’s silly, goofy kid stuff all the time. But they commit, and it works. So they put him in the swing, they like, buckle him in, like with a bar.

And then they start pushing him, they start pushing him really high over this cliff. And he’s like, okay, I’m done, I wanna get off now. And they just keep pushing him, and she’s like, Rob, let’s get off. She’s taunting him at this point. And Woody crawls up the side of the swing. And with an axe cuts the rope.

Now, the film would lead you to believe that with one strike of that axe, he cut two ropes that were at least ten feet away from each other. Yeah, I know. 

Todd: I didn’t want to quibble too much, but yeah, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I also like how he was climbing up a ladder that was purposely built for this.

Craig: And he pulls, there’s an axe up there just at the ready. Like, they obviously planned this. And Rob just launches off the cliff. 

Todd: It’s kind of funny actually. What I thought 

Craig: was interesting was that, then there’s another scene where Cynthia, like, makes nice with Fanny, and Fanny talks about having a baby. And, oh, that’s, that’s right after, like, Cynthia’s comforting her, because Lynn was such a bitch.

And they, like, play horseshoes for a second. And then, Fanny shows, she’s like, Do you want to see my baby? And Cynthia’s like, Sure. And Fanny pulls out a mummified Human 

Todd: baby. Yeah, I kind of saw that 

Craig: coming. I figured something messed up 

Todd: like that. Yeah, and Cynthia’s triggered, this is Cynthia’s thing.

Cynthia is constantly triggered throughout this whole thing, right? We’re constantly getting flashbacks to her feeling of responsibility for the death of her son, which honestly is her fault. Uh, even though Jeff tries to reassure her it’s not. What can you do? You gotta move on and you gotta stop blaming yourself.

But at the end of the day, uh, she’s also the one who finds Rob dead on the rocks, moments after he launches off the cliff. I’m not sure how the physics of all this works, cause it seems like the house is way, way up on the hill. I guess they’re just doing a hell of a lot of exploring. Cause she ends up down Low, where Rob is on the rocks.

And this triggers her as well. It’s like, I guess it’s just death, it’s the potential of death, it’s drowning, it’s whatever. At one point, when I think they were camping, the girls had said they wanted to go The other girls had said they wanted to go scuba diving. Which, I think what they meant was snorkeling?

I think so. Yeah, but anyway, like, um, Terry, one of the blonde gals, Slips on a rock and falls in and Cynthia’s the only one right there who could save her and she’s just paralyzed She just stares and it’s unable to move because this is the flashbacks to her baby drowning And so right you get that a lot which did actually come off as a little cheesy I thought if anyone in this movie was just a little ugh, it was her character sadly enough Well, I 

Craig: think that she’s supposed to be she’s playing Fragile like she’s incredibly fragile.

Todd: Yeah, she’s on the edge of looniness herself, really. 

Craig: Uh huh And so I think that that’s what she’s trying to portray, and I don’t think that she does a bad job of it. I don’t think she does a great job of it. Uh, well, 

Todd: I just mean, like, in a movie where I just complimented and said so much of this could come off as cornier than it ends up coming off, like, I think her bits come off the corniest.

That’s what I’m trying to say. 

Craig: Right, like, you almost expect, they do a lot of close ups on her face, and you almost expect her to, like, tick. Like, for her eye to tick, like, I’m a little crazy. 

Todd: Right.

Craig: And I did miss that part, um, cause that’s important, that she finds the body, and at first I was like, is she gonna think that she’s hallucinating this? Right. No! She tells everybody, and like, they’re sad? But they don’t really act like it’s that big a deal. 

Todd: Like Maybe nobody liked Rob that much, except even Lynn.

Actually, Terry was Rob’s girlfriend, right? Uh, I 

Craig: think so. Yeah, I think so. 

Todd: Yeah, even she, just after, just like It’s just your typical horror movie shit where people are starting to die off and then by the next scene They don’t seem as emotionally traumatized as they should 

Craig: be right And then uh, jeff it keeps asking the dad like is your friend really coming and like the dad’s being really evasive about it And there are like three scenes where this happens and jeff just gets progressively more angry But not much really comes of it.

Dad’s promised 

Todd: that a friend’s coming on a boat, right? I don’t remember if we said that earlier, but Oh, so, anyway, Lynn is out walking, uh, and she comes across, we, we, oh, how did the third guy get revealed? Oh, Teddy shows up in the corpse 

Craig: room. In the corpse room, right, like, Cynthia reacts in shock and horror and starts to back away, and Teddy grabs her from behind, and he’s a big hulking guy too, he’s the 

Todd: biggest of all of them.

That was a surprise, I’m like, where are these people constantly coming 

Craig: from? Well, they, well, they just keep popping out of the woodshed, and in fact, one of the characters says that at one point, I think Lynn’s like, Yeah. These freaks that just keep Popping out of the woodshed. I don’t want to see who’s going to pop out of the woodshed next.

And it’s true. They do. They just randomly pop up. This is the last one, but he’s very menacing. Cause he’s so big and he like grabs her, but Fanny likes Cynthia. Yeah. 

Todd: She’s protective of her. 

Craig: Right. And she, she says, I would never let Teddy hurt you. Blah, blah, blah. Um, and then Fanny catches Cynthia and Jeff kissing and gets super horny and.

Like her face is sweating. Yeah, and Teddy’s like, no, we can’t do that again. I got beat last time. And she’s like, I don’t want you. I don’t want Woody either. We’re to believe that that dead baby is her baby with one of her brothers. Correct? Yeah. Ugh, it’s so gross. And I’m glad they didn’t go there, because I thought they might.

There’s another place where they almost go somewhere, and they don’t. They leave it implied, and I was so glad. We’ll get there soon. I know, right? But then, Lynn, Lynn goes out on a walk in the woods, and she finds all three of them jumping this enormous jump rope, and They taught her, which is fair because she was a total bitch about them.

Oh, yeah. Hi, Miss Lynn! Whatcha doin Just walkin Oh, you haven’t met my brother Teddy. No, Cynthia told us all about him. I’ll see you guys later. Nay. What did she tell you about me? Now, Teddy, you behave. Yeah, well, I just don’t like nobody saying no bad things about me. Maybe she feels bad because a friend got killed.

Whenever I feel sad, I just jump rope and then I feel all better. Don’t I, Teddy? Yeah. Why don’t you 

Todd: jump rope 

Craig: with us? I don’t want to jump rope. I just want to be left alone. Oh, please jump rope with us, Miss Lynn. Pretty please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? And then they start messing with her and tangling her up in the rope.

And they don’t show it, but it’s obvious where this is going. Yeah. 

Todd: We know we’re gonna find her later, because we don’t see her again for a while. Right. Back to Fanny getting all hot and bothered. I forgot. 

Craig: Yeah, I’m jumping all over the place, sorry. I had to take That’s okay. I had to take my notes on my phone, and so they’re really, really short, and I’m getting lost in them.

That’s okay, Craig, we forgive you. 

Todd: Fanny gets horny. Yep, Fanny gets horny, says she wants Jeff, not her brothers, and good for her. Uh, so, she runs around to the other side of the wall and surprises the two of them, and in a poorly staged scene, I think, where they just let Fanny do whatever the hell she wants, she starts caressing Jeff’s face while he just sits there.

And then, she grabs, uh, I guess it’s like a Oh, it’s like a doll with a knight. I thought it was a unicorn at first. I think it’s a knight riding a unicorn or something. No, it’s like he’s 

Craig: got a long Like a 

Todd: lance or something, yeah. Stabs him right through what initially looked like the mouth, but I think turns out to be the eye.

And instead of helping, Cynthia watches in horror and screams a bunch and then runs right out to get Ma. And this is when Ma turns. Ma, Fanny’s gone crazy. Wicked girl. You’re all wicked. Come from your wicked world. And as the good book says, the wicked shall be punished. And so, Cynthia freaks out and, again, runs off.

Jeff comes stumbling out and collapses there on the porch where Ma was doing her knitting. And Ma stands up and, in my favorite line of the movie, goes, That child never does finish a chore. Takes her two knitting needles and stabs him and finishes it off. I thought that was great. It was so corny. It was so fun.

It was funny. The movie’s been relatively light on the gore so far. I mean, like, gory things are happening, but it’s not like you see them close up and in great detail. It’s more like the aftermath, some blood on the eye or some blood here or there. So you don’t really, like, see the stabbing in detail in either one of these cases.

Craig: This movie takes its time with its world building and its character development. Yeah. Before they really get to any action at all. And it’s not boring. No, I didn’t find it boring at all. I was actually kind of captivated. Mm hmm. And then when it gets to the action, then the action comes fast. Like Yeah.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So, I don’t know. What happens next? Ma finishes Geoff off. 

Todd: Yeah, Ma finishes Geoff off. Terry’s wandering through the woods. Uh, oh, she’s, she’s going back to the camp, I think. And she sees that the plane is gone, uh, and she can’t find Paul. And Cynthia’s running through the woods. By this point, Jeff, before he died, had told Terry, like, You need to go back to the camp.

Yeah. Because we need to get out of here because these people are weird. Just before he gets off. Cynthia’s running through the woods, uh, away from the terror. And, uh, sees Lynn hanging from the tree by the jump rope. Right. So now it’s just the two girls and maybe Paul. We don’t know yet where he is. And then the two boys show up on a Hill as the, as Terry and Cynthia are standing there and they’re dressed like they’re playing Cowboys and Indians in what could have been, you know, him shooting a real arrow at her.

It’s an arrow with a suction cup on it. And Paul. 

Craig: Yeah. Like he’s dressed like in like a kid’s cowboy outfit or whatever. And he pulls out these six shooters, but they’re just cap guns. And at this point, like. It’s weird, because they’re still just playing around, but the ma has already said the wicked shall be punished, and the dad has yelled at them, Ain’t none of you gonna get off this island alive.

So they’re just messing with them. Mm hmm. They’re planning to kill them. Yeah. Like they are actually children. But when 

Todd: Terry was back at the camp, um, as Jeff had instructed her to get the flare gun, she has the flare gun with her. And so she manages to grab Fanny, cause Fanny pops out, and she holds her up with it.

So they call Ma and Pa out of the house. They walk Fanny back to the house, they call Ma and Pa out, who are suddenly very concerned. What’s interesting is, they don’t have, or at least they don’t project at this moment, this confidence like, no matter what you do, we’re gonna get you. Pause very much like, okay, nevermind.

Like, don’t, please don’t hurt her. I feel this is a genuine 

Craig: fear. I do too. And I was, I genuinely believed that they were afraid, and I was genuinely, I genuinely believed that Fannie was afraid. Yeah. And even though that, even though she’s murderous, like I, I felt bad, not bad for her, but I felt for her because she fault, she also has the mind of a child.

Yeah. Right. And, and a child would be terrified in that. Situa I would be terrified in this situation, but anyway, I mean initially it works like Terry who is not a good actress I would say she’s the weakest of them all. Yeah, she tries to put on her best tough girl here And she doesn’t do a terrible job.

She’s just not a very good actress 

Todd: I could have sworn Terry was that blonde girl from Friday the 13th has been in a couple horror movies I really thought Yeah, you know who I’m talking about? She’s not. 

Craig: Part two or three. I know. I looked her up. She had been in things that I recognized, but everything I looked at was just bit parts.

Todd: I remember her in The Game. She was, um, oh I can’t remember the name, Maggie, the woman who seems to be working for the company and kind of befriends him. She’s got a pretty big I’ve only seen that movie once. Oh God, I love that movie. I wish it was a horror movie. I would totally, we could totally do it.

I’ve seen it a million times. Yeah, she was great in that movie. She clearly grew up and got some skills, but in this movie, she’s still a little fresh. 

Craig: Well, she convinces, I mean, she tries to play tough and she convinces Pa to take them to a boat. He says, I think there’s a boat on the other side of the island, but I don’t really know anything about it.

I don’t know if there’s gas or if the motor runs or whatever. And she’s like, I don’t care, take me. And they go. And she’s also pretty smart, because he takes them to the boat, and then she says to Pa, make them come out. He’s like, what do you mean? And she’s like, you know what I mean. And so Ma yells to the boys, who were laying in ambush, you know, waiting for them to come by.

They get to the boat, but when they get to the boat, They freak out because Paul is dead in 

Todd: there. Yeah, he’s got an axe to the face. In freaking 

Craig: out Fanny runs off. Fanny runs off and they kinda get separated. And I think that we are to believe, Is this the moment that Cynthia breaks? This is where, this is where it begins.

I think like she is like paralyzed with fear. 

Todd: Yeah, I think this must be the moment where she breaks. Honestly, I feel like her break is quite sudden. I mean, you can, you can chalk it up to the fact that she was always a little on edge, but I kind of wanted to see a little more reason or explanation besides that.

I don’t know. I don’t know what I was expecting. I was just expecting something a little more sophisticated than what it ended up being. Sophisticated. What am I saying? Right. That’s just the word I’m using. This movie is far from sophisticated, but yeah, like it’s funny too, because they run off and like an idiot, Terry just shoots the flare gun at nothing.

So she’s. Like their gun is useless now. She runs off, Fanny says, Can we play our game now, Ma, like you promised? And she’s like, Of course you can, sweetie. Now you boys don’t be late for supper now. And they burn the body in the boat. They dump gasoline all over it, which you can see the body twitch. Like you can see him blink his eye when the water comes.

Every single, I think every single one of the corpses in this movie breathes at some point. Yeah, that’s funny. Then they burn the body in the boat. They toss the boat out. And for some reason it explodes because it’s a movie. Uh, and then. They end up at another cabin after they run off the, the two girls. I guess it’s a fake out, like we’re supposed to believe, oh, maybe there’s somebody else on the island and they’re gonna get help.

Yeah. But it just turns out to be the kids’ playhouse because they’ve propped up. Um, Jeff, I guess 

Craig: there, no. Well, I, maybe it was Jeff. I thought it was Rob, but it doesn’t matter. One of the 

Todd: guys. I don’t remember who it was. Anyway, they prop somebody else up in there, and they’re surprised, and so then they chase her more, and they chase after Terry.

Teddy the big guy gets Terry up on a rock, and he’s shaking her and throttling her, and I thought, oh god, is he gonna rape her? Then he snaps her neck, and it Almost seems like something he intended to do or didn’t intend to do. I’m not quite sure. I think it 

Craig: was an accident. I think that he was trying to rape her and I think that just in the struggle He broke her neck and I think that he was disappointed by that But not enough to let it deter him.

Todd: No, definitely not! Cause Woody’s watching and he goes I’m gonna go tell mom and dad, I’m gonna go tell mom and dad and he runs off and Teddy, sure enough, uh, starts molesting her body. Starts taking her clothes off. If this were some of the other movies we’ve seen, this would have happened in gory detail.

Yes, 

Craig: it would have been very gritty and very uncomfortable and I’m glad they didn’t go there. Now, it still is because she’s lifeless Beneath him and he opens all of her clothes. There’s no nudity. She’s wearing a bra the whole time, but the way that the camera is, he rips her panties off, but the way that the camera is angled, you can see that he does it, but you can’t see the lower half of her body.

And then thankfully it cuts away. 

Todd: I would kind of argue that this might have, I don’t know what you got to understand where I’m coming from here. This would have been a better movie. I think if it had been grittier, if it had been more in that vein, and they had gone there. Not, look, I mean, I think most of our listeners have listened to this podcast enough to know that we are not gorehounds, we hate sexual violence, all that stuff.

We end up watching a lot of movies with that stuff in it, and, uh, you know, an exploitation movie is meant to Shock you and, and make a lot of money and be, and be shocking and gross and, and things like that. And we’ve certainly watched a lot of movies, The Hills Have Eyes, God, even The Hills Have Eyes, um, remake.

Yeah. That did go there and were shocking and, and that, I would argue, is what these movies are supposed to do. And this movie is like, what happens if you take what It ends up feeling a little bit like more like a bigger budget studio film with higher level actors in it that’s not willing to go there.

And therefore I think it’s just sort of more or less been forgotten, you know, 

Craig: see. And I think that if it had gone more in that direction, it would have been forgotten entirely. I think that the only reason that we’re seeing it is because of how different it is. It’s, it’s, uh, I, I, I don’t. I don’t know. 

Todd: I think you’re right.

If it had been more drive and fare, it would have just fallen right in the pile with the others. 

Craig: That’s, that’s what I think. Now, of course, I could be wrong, because like you said, those other movies that we’ve seen, you didn’t mention this one, but like Last House on the Left. Like, if it had really pushed boundaries like that, maybe it would have been notorious for that reason.

Right. But, there were so many of those types of movies, and really only a few of them stand out. True. So I don’t know, I think this might have gotten lost, uh, in the shuffle, if it hadn’t been so strange. But anyway, when, when Teddy comes back, they’re all waiting for him on the porch, including Cynthia, and he begs not to be punished, he says, I didn’t mean to, or whatever, but Pa begins beating him.

A big stick, and chanting in the name of God, and all of the family starts chanting with them, and then Cynthia starts, Cynthia starts chanting with them, and smiles. And she has clearly lost her mind, and they dress her up like a baby doll, like Fanny, and she is now acting like an infant. Oh God. And, oh God, it’s cringy to watch, but, I mean, it just seems like she’s 

Todd: Yeah, and I thought, okay, this is how they’re going to end the movie, but it kept going.

And I was kind of surprised. They have this meal sitting down at the table. She’s finally celebrating the Fanny’s 12th birthday, and they bring in a cake and they blow out the candles, and the family’s treating her just like one of their own, and she’s now acting like a child and all that, and she’s super happy, and everybody’s lovely, and I thought, okay, fade to black in credits.

And then when another scene came up, I’m like, wait a second, and I looked, and there’s like 15 minutes left. Uh huh. Uh huh. So, it did sort of subvert my expectations in that way. Yes. That’s good, 

Craig: I guess. Well, I think it’s really interesting because they could, you’re right, they could have just ended there with her like blankly staring into space like Pearl at the end of Pearl.

It could have ended 

Todd: there. Yeah, it’s very typical for a horror movie to have this sort of twist ending and then leave it, you know. And the bad guys 

Craig: win. Mm hmm. But here They take, after the birthday party, they take her down in the cellar for a surprise. Now, they had kind of been shady about the cellar before anyway, and they get down there and they tell her to close her eyes, and when she opens them, all of her friends are hung up on hooks, I guess.

Yeah. And, and they all, you know, are mangled and look disgusting. That looked good. I don’t know if that was those actors or if those were Dummies? Oh yeah, for sure. I don’t know what it was, but whatever it was, it looked good. And they’re hung there amongst a myriad of other bodies, too, in various stages of decay.

Some of them clearly years and years and years old, and Fanny calls them her big dollies. 

Todd: Her big dollies, yeah. 

Craig: Oh God. And then they, they tell the story. She, well, several of them tell the story of where they got those other dollies. And one of them was somebody who just pestered them too much. And one of them was somebody who likes the fishing on their beach so much that they were going to tell a bunch of people and they couldn’t have that.

Oh, and those two, those two thought they could get away with doing whatever sinful thing they wanted on their beach. Well, we surprised them. So they’re just like, they’re these moralistic territorial. Ah, I don’t even know. Look, 

Todd: protecting, I mean, paw says it earlier. You know, there’s like this odd flashback that I, I’m not sure if it was a flashback to an earlier time or if it was just a, a scene in the cabin that was happening in concurrence.

It almost felt like it was shoehorned in, like they needed some explanation where P’S just standing by the fire. And he says to ma, you know. I’m worried about what the outside world’s gonna do to our kids, and so we’re just gonna keep them here, and we’re gonna, you know, keep them away from the sinfulness of the rest of society.

Kind of unnecessary. 

Craig: It was a weird conversation, because it kind of came out of nowhere. It did. Yeah, you’re already doing that. Like, you don’t need to explain that to us now. I didn’t even know who he was talking about. I didn’t know if he was talking about their own 

Todd: children, or the I think so. Yeah, no, he was talking about their own kids.

I really feel like it was just shoehorned in there because they felt like we didn’t get it. And, and the other thing I think, I think this, this scene that you’re talking about, the big dollies, would have been much more effective if it had happened earlier, before people were all dying. It would have been more shocking and interesting, I think.

In the midst of we’re discovering more about just how murderous this family is by this time We already know and so it’s not I didn’t find it that interesting. I was like, oh, okay. Well that tracks, you know Check the boxes there. Why isn’t the movie over yet? Well, 

Craig: I mean, I found it kind of interesting that they like fetishize their victims That’s kind of weird and they had to do it after cynthia’s break to show that she’s really broken and she’s not faking it Unless she’s doing a really good job because she’s not disturbed by her.

She’s amused friends She’s amused by it. She even says something like, How do you do? Nice to meet you. Or something and giggles. And she is all in on this. Like, I really think that she has flipped. Like, she has flipped her lid. And she is a part of this family now. And she’s happy about it. And they’re happy.

And the dad prays and thanks God at dinner. Bringing her into the family. Until, Fanny and Cynthia are playing in their room. And Cynthia holds up a dress and says, This dress would look good on your baby, and Fanny’s like, yeah, I guess, and Cynthia’s like, well, aren’t you gonna put it on, and Fanny’s like, sure, I’ll put it on, so she pulls out the corpse baby, but she also pulls out a big basin, and, uh, Cynthia’s like, what is that, and she’s like, she says it’s a bassinet, which doesn’t make any sense, it’s a basin, and then she mimes turning the water on, but Cynthia hears it, and we know that, because we hear it, and then, as the, as Fanny is starting to, put that corpse baby into this empty thing.

Todd: It’s like a playbath that she’s gonna give it a playbath. Right, 

Craig: it’s a playbath. But Cynthia starts hallucinating her own baby and reliving that moment and freaks out and starts screaming at Fanny to Get me my baby! Put my baby down! And Fanny’s like, Isn’t that your baby? It’s my baby. And then they fight over it like a couple of children and tear it apart.

And it falls apart, at which point Fanny looks horrified, Cynthia picks up that basin, it’s a metal basin, and starts beating Fanny over the head with it, and it gets, repeatedly. This is gruesome. It’s gruesome, and, like I said before, Fanny Like seems childlike because she’s so shocked like she doesn’t even know how to respond.

She doesn’t fight back. She doesn’t understand what’s happening to her and it cuts away from them to Woody coming in the house and he walks into the room to find Fanny dead on the floor covered in blood and he’s just standing there and Cynthia pops out of the closet with that That sword statue, that knight statue with the sword, and says, Naughty Woody!

And stabs him in the Throat with it or something. I don’t I don’t think we I don’t think we see we see her thrust it at the camera And then later we see the body and I think it’s in his neck. This all happens so fast 

Todd: She just goes on a murderous rampage It’s a little lazy. She 

Craig: kills them all in the span of like three minutes.

Yeah 

Todd: She runs out ma’s knitting again. She grabs her knitting needles and stabs her with them then Teddy, who somehow manages to get in the house without seeing any of this, steals a cookie from the cookie jar, and when he comes out, she hacks him up and then goes and steals a cookie herself. Yeah, that 

Craig: was kind of funny.

They’re children. 

Todd: They are. And then she kind of disappears, and Paw comes back from hunting, so he’s got his rifle with him, and he finds Ma and Teddy dead on the porch. And now we get a long scene with Paw, which I actually really liked. 

Craig: I mean, he did a good job. 

Todd: Because he did a good job. By now I was really ready for the movie to be over.

Me too. I thought this ending was really protracted and he comes in and he just goes through a breakdown, but very slowly. He walks around, he sees everybody. What’s her name? 

Craig: Cynthia’s playing dead. She plays dead on the bed in the room that Fanny’s in. Oh, I didn’t 

Todd: catch that. You’re right. I thought he was gonna shoot himself, but then he walks outside and he kneels down and he calls up to God.

Again, fantastic actor, really pulls this off. Sells it. For a moment, I actually did, like, you know, I kind of got into the mindset of this guy. Look, he’s psycho and he’s done awful things, but at least you see where he’s coming from. Yeah, he 

Craig: has an ideology. 

Todd: Yeah, but he’s sticking to it even though it’s warped, you know, right but he’s broken now and he turns to God and I want you To listen to 

Craig: me Listen My family Is dead And we live by your teachers I Beat it into him I taught it to them.

And what have you done? You did away with them. But I have news for you. I renounced you, God! Ha ha ha ha ha! I renounced you! And I give my soul to Satan!

Todd: And right at that moment, um, Cynthia pops up and shoots him in the back. And 

Craig: then she goes back into the room and sits on the bed next to the baby cradle and rocks it and hums a lullaby. And that’s the end! Oh my gosh, so who knows what’s gonna happen next. I guess she’s just gonna live out there by herself.

That’s great. Whatever. I, I agree with you that by the end, by the time that Paul got back and we had just seen this really fast sequence of murders, I was like, all right, okay, let’s wrap it up. And to be fair, they do pretty quickly. And I thought that that was a pretty poignant moment with the dad. Like, nothing could break his ideology except Losing his family like that.

He didn’t think that was fair and I can understand that. I can understand, you know, devoting your life To God, and then feeling like you really got f ed over. Yeah. And I, I could understand why he would turn in that moment. It’s very melodramatic and stupid. Yeah. But I get it, and I thought that the actor sold it really 

Todd: well.

He did, he sold it really 

Craig: well. Overall, the, um, acting of all the members of the family was so compelling that it carried the whole movie for me. Yeah. I, beyond that, it was pretty typical. The ending subverted my expectations, and I like that. I wouldn’t go so far to say as I love this movie, but I do think that it’s really interesting.

And especially for big fans of the genre, I would definitely recommend you check it out. It’s odd. It’s really kind of different than Even though there are some typical things, it’s different. It’s unique, in its own way. And I’m glad to have seen it. I don’t know, I probably won’t watch it again anytime soon, but who knows, 5 10 years from now I may.

Pop it back on just kind of for the oddity of it. You 

Todd: remember back when we did Alien and we were talking about how it was written by, you know, Dan O’Bannon, who has done a lot of like cheesy exploitation movies and could have been directed by Roger Corman But was instead directed by Ridley Scott and just elevated to this masterpiece, right?

Uh huh. I feel like this movie is when that sort of happens, but the pieces don’t work. Ha ha ha ha ha! Like, it’s an exploitation film. It’s written poorly. But is 

Craig: it? I don’t know that it is an 

Todd: exploitation film. I don’t know if it’s written poorly. It’s just, it’s just silly. It’s a silly, typical exploitation concept.

I don’t think the writing’s that great. No. But somebody probably, in Ridley Scott’s hands, this probably, in Ridley Scott’s hands, with this cast, it could have been A masterpiece, perhaps. I don’t know. Maybe I’m saying too much, but 

Craig: Well, I, yeah, I don’t know 

Todd: either. Alien was innovative for a lot of other reasons.

This is a lot more typical. But it’s just the cast that elevates this movie, honestly. And the filmmaking’s pretty good, too. Like, the cinematography, it’s got some sleeping camera angles. It doesn’t look cheap. Um, except when it comes to the gore effects and The fact that the bodies are moving half the time, but it’s just ultimately at the end of the day It’s just silly and we’ve seen a lot of other stuff like it And it’s I think it’s an oddity because of that and for that reason I would recommend it Otherwise, you know if you’re just looking for thrills and excitement and an exploitation film There are things that actually take the same material But sort of go all the way with it with an unknown cast of people Mostly bad actors and that’s kind of how we have fun with these kind of movies typically right?

Yeah, that’s that’s maybe what you’re more in the mood for That’s what you’ll be disappointed if you watch this movie and you’re expecting something more like that, but definitely see it Yeah And yeah This could have been a tribute episode to like four or five different actors if they’re either weren’t already alive or had long died So Yeah, I’m glad I saw it.

Thank you so much, uh, Gary for recommending this and thank you patrons for pulling this out of our pile and putting it in front of us. It was a lot of fun to talk about. It was. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you’d like to join our patrons, just go to patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast and for the very low price of five bucks a month.

You can vote on what we’re going to do. Starting next week, in fact, we are going to be doing an entire month of Child’s Play movies, which was one of our patrons suggestions as well. So, if you’d like to shape the show and have access to a bunch of goodies, as well as the unedited versions of our podcast that, uh, Craig had alluded to earlier.

Just go on over there and join the family. It’s a lot of fun chatting with, uh, with each other back there. Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast, and you can find us all over. Just drop us a message, let us know what you thought of this episode, and the best thing you could do for us is leave us a review somewhere and share this episode with a friend that you know would enjoy it.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Our second tribute episode this year is a two-fer: Frances Sternhagen and Andre Braugher both left us in the last few months, and they left us two fantastic performances in an utterly chilling Frank Darabont horror film, adapted from a Stephen King novella. Brilliant performances abound in this tale of a supermarket full of customers who fight for survival in the midst of a mysterious mist inhabited by otherworldly creatures.

Man, did we ever enjoy chatting about this movie! The only “mistery” is why it took us nearly 400 episodes to get around to it!

The Mist (2007)

Episode 378, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we promised last week that we would be doing another tribute episode, and we will fulfill that promise right now. In fact, this episode is a tribute to two people. Number one, Frances Sternhagen. The actress, really well known for Cheers, but she’s been in a lot of other movies.

Uh, she was in Misery, she was Virginia, she was the wife of that, um, sheriff 

Craig: or whatever. Hilarious. She was like, they were old and she was super horny for him. I love that. 

Todd: Oh, it was so funny. She’s been all over television ever since, uh, like the 50s and 60s. Um, she was in Doc Hollywood. 

Craig: She was Bunny McDougal on Sex and the City.

Oh, really? Which is great. Yeah, she’s fantastic. You know, I never saw that. That’s not worth it. Don’t worry. Don’t waste your 

Todd: time.

Well, anyway, uh, she’s a pretty recognizable face, I think, uh, and it’s always nice to see her. And the movie that we’re doing today is The Mist. This movie is directed by Frank Darabond, and he originally, well, he basically got to start directing Stephen King movies. 

Craig: Yeah, and he’s great. He has made some of the best Stephen King adaptations from, from some of the, like, least likely source material.

Well, I mean, this one, this one’s very much horror, but The Shawshank Redemption, which is a fantastic movie. It’s my favorite movie ever. It’s so great. It’s a great, great movie. That’s not horror at all. The Green Mile has supernatural elements to it, but it’s really more of a drama. Also, a beautiful movie.

I cry at that movie every time I watch it. It’s great. Oh, that movie is so nice. This movie, The Mist. is watching this. I was thinking it feels like it’s been so long since we’ve done a legitimately really good movie on the show now. I know that we did the Exorcist fairly recently and that’s that’s amazing and a classic.

But before and after that, we’ve really been reviewing some turds and watching this. I’m like, Oh my God, this is such a great movie. Yeah. Movie. It’s so good. 

Todd: I had forgotten how good of a movie this was. I had seen it, you know, back, I think in 2007. And I remembered the ending being really bleak. And, watching it this time, I had forgotten just how bleak that freaking ending was.

And how compelling the human drama in the story is. It’s really cool because Frank Darabond really originally wanted to start off his career directing a horror movie. I think we’ve talked about how he was a co writer on one of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I think it was Dream Warriors. He did some script doctoring on that one and um, maybe credited, maybe uncredited.

Uh, he has been We’re a writer behind the scenes of a number of movies before he reached out to Stephen King and he directed a he got permission from Stephen King to do a short. I think it was the woman in the chair or the woman in black or the woman. What was it called? And he was a Stephen King short and he made a short short story and he made a short out of it.

And King was so impressed with the project that it actually inspired him to start this program where he would. Give the movie rates out to budding and hopeful young filmmakers for his material for like a dollar a 

Craig: buck Yeah, I remember hearing that story. It’s so cool. It’s fantastic. I know it is so cool.

Stephen King doesn’t need money King is set. He’s good. I know it’s amazing that he you know Takes advantage of that and gives aspiring filmmakers, storytellers, whatever, opportunities. Such a cool f ing guy, that guy. Well, 

Todd: you could say he’s almost single handedly responsible for Frank Darabond’s career.

He originally wanted to do this one, that was the first one, the second movie he optioned, but he ended up going with more of a drama instead, and he ended up doing The Shawshank Redemption, which was a huge hit, is a fantastic movie. I think one of the best movies ever of all time. It’s great. Oh yeah. I can’t say enough great things about it.

He went back, he went to do the Green Mile, and then he came back around to do The Mist, and he wanted to dial things back a little bit. The horror movies that he’s loved, they were built, they were made cheaply, and quick, you know, with a crew, kind of Roger Corman style, and he wanted to do that same thing.

So he only has a budget of 3. 8 million on this movie. Jeez. He shot it in a very, very short period of time, and he used a lot of actors that he’d already worked with in those previous movies. It’s, it’s like a who’s who of Shawshank Redemption and Green Mile in this. 

Craig: And, uh, The Walking Dead, which he went on to do later, and a lot of these folks.

But yeah, I mean, it’s a, it’s a huge cast. It’s, it’s hard for me to believe that this movie was shot on a low budget because it looks expensive. It is so well made. Like I suppose some of the digital effects kind of show their age a little bit, a little bit, but not so much. I mean, we still today in 2023 see.

worse digital effects than this, it doesn’t look cheap. It looks great. It is brilliantly acted. It’s just such a good movie. Like there is a, a fairly expansive group of characters, but they all seem like real people and people that you potentially might know, and they’re all so well acted and the setting.

and scope of the story are so small. Like, it basically all takes place in this one grocery store, and the story is ultimately very simple, but it’s so compelling on a human level. Like, that’s the drama and the meat of the story, are the human interactions. Ultimately, the scariest parts of the story Come from the human side, you know, like there are monsters, literal monsters outside, But what’s even scarier than that is what’s going on with the people inside.

It is so compelling 

Todd: It’s so interesting. I think of the mist and I think of like a fogginess and I don’t know I I was just like poetically thinking it’s such an aptly titled movie It’s such a great metaphor for what’s happening to these people like their brains just get fogged And it just leads them in all these different directions to turn against each other.

It’s, it’s like a Lord of the Flies type situation. Yeah, yes. Walking dead. Basically the whole series is based on this thing where the zombies are the least of your worries. And that’s what happens here in this small little grocery store that this small town people find themselves stuck in while this mist engulfs the town and it turns out there are creatures in the mist.

And I read that Stephen King conceived the idea for the story while he was shopping in a grocery store with his son. And he just imagined a prehistoric, like, um, pterodactyl flying over to the meat department and knocking over cans of pineapple and stuff like that on the way. And he’d amused himself by the time he got to the checkout counter to write this story.

But like you said, it’s really not about the monsters. It’s about what monsters people can be when they’re put in a difficult situation and they can’t work together. Right. But 

Craig: that’s, that’s the other thing that I loved about this story is that it feels so true to life. Like if something like this happens, something unexplainable outside of your.

idea of what is possible than what happens. And I believe 100 percent that this is exactly how it would go down that, you know, there would be people who questioned the reality of what’s going on and people turning on one another. Uh, I, I, I just, it’s, it’s so easy, I don’t know, maybe that’s because we’ve recently been through a pandemic and in America we’ve been through some really, really divided political times.

And, and that The politics have just leaked into our everyday existence. You know, politics used to be kind of something separate that, like, if you just didn’t want to talk about it, like, we don’t have to have conflicts over politics, let’s just not talk about it. And now it feels like it’s just leaked into every aspect of our life, and there’s so much Discord and and anger and and that is what happens here and you tie in religion to it It’s 

Todd: wild, you know I I’m starting it this later time in my life and with all my experience and and you know being inundated with these apocalyptic movies with these nightmare scenarios and it’s always about It’s typical kind of Lord of the Flies where things break down and people can’t work together that have started to question that a little bit.

I’ve started to think, you know, are we just kind of creating this sort of self fulfilling prophecy? Do we make art that portrays humans like this that just gives us no hope for ourselves? And therefore, we’re just deeply convinced that we can never work together in a situation like this? And then that’s just going to inform how we Act in situations like this because we’ve already had this preconceived notion that’s perhaps been instilled there over time Simply by the stories we’re telling each other and not necessarily is it true to our nature, you know?

And one thing that I liked about this movie is that there are people that work together Yeah, right. There are people who come together just because and when there’s nothing in it for them I mean, obviously what’s in it for them is survival. But what I mean is like It’s not just this Chaos, where everybody’s fending for themselves and nobody gets along.

There are factions sort of setting up. They’re not necessarily trying to oppose each other, they’re just coming into natural conflict. Some people switch sides when they hear a more compelling argument. Like you said, it all feels very real. But it also feels a little hopeful at times. The Walking Dead!

Feels hopeless. I stopped watching that movie after, I think, four seasons because it was just making me angry and hating life and hating the world. This movie doesn’t do that to me because I feel like there’s a more uplifting message in the way that these people interact with each other and the things that happen.

Even though, ultimately, it has a very bleak ending. Shockingly bleak ending that Darabond wrote specifically for the movie. It’s different from Stephen King’s 

Craig: story. Yeah, there are a couple of differences. Have you read it? 

Todd: I did, a long time ago though, 

Craig: man. Yeah, it’s been a long time for me too. I remember, I remember some of the key differences, especially the ending.

But Yeah, you say that you’re skeptical like would the is it a self fulfilling prophecy these stories that we tell I don’t think so I think that conflict is inherent to humanity and You’re right that in this movie there is hope but that’s because the movie tells us who the good guys are The people, the people who are the quote unquote bad guys, they don’t think they’re the bad guys, they think they’re right, and I think that’s inherent to humanity too.

We, whatever side we’re on, we think we’re right. Of 

Todd: course. Despite that, there’s some very basic, indisputable things, like, hey, a monster’s coming at me, uh, am I gonna run, am I gonna push someone in front of me, am I going to, you know, deliberately trip someone else up so that they get to the monster, the monster gets to them before they get to me, am I gonna run toward the monster, even though I’m well out of his reach to try to save somebody else, when we’re kind of put in those sorts of situations, I think that a lot of stories tell us, no, everyone’s gonna say, fuck you, whereas, You know, I feel like that’s not necessarily how we are and how we act.

Craig: No, no. And, and there are people, and I, I love that, like there, there’s a group of people that, I don’t want to say bond, but they, they come together and, and they are our, And I love them all like, and they’re, they’re a diverse group, you know, there’s young people and old people, but they just are like minded and, and work together.

And I’m rooting for all of them. And then of course, there’s the opposing faction that’s, that’s led by a religious. I am not a deeply religious person, religion is a part of my life. I attend church weekly. I don’t want it to come across that I just think that all people who believe in God or have religious faith are lunatics.

I don’t think that at all. If, if I did think that I would have to count myself in their number, but this is a zealot. How do you say that word? Is it zealot or zealot? Zealot. Zealot. Zealot, yeah. And she’s literally crazy. Played by Marsha Gay Harding. This woman should have won awards for this role. She is fan tastic.

She really is. I’ve seen her in many things, and she is a great actress. She plays drama. brilliantly, but she can also be hilariously funny. She, she just has such a wide range, but she is so villainous in this movie. I’m more frightened of her and her power of influence. Then I am of the monsters that are outside.

Yeah. Oh God. It’s so scary, but I assume this is going to be one of those movies that we have so much to say about it because we love it so much that if we tried to get into the plot, it’s just, it’s not going to work. So like the general plot is the main character is this guy named David Drayton. He’s an artist.

He does like book covers or film posters. We know that from the establishing shot. 

Todd: Yeah, where he’s painting, I believe, like a book cover of, uh, one of the Dark Tower novels, isn’t he? Yeah, 

Craig: like the Gunslinger or something. Yeah, there are several Stephen King references there. One of them is like Georgie in his raincoat with a red balloon.

One of them is, um, John Carpenter’s The Thing. All of this artwork is made by the same guy, who’s a real guy who really made the artwork for The Thing poster. But anyway, he’s got a wife and kid, a big storm rolls in and like, messes up, like trees fall down and mess up their house and stuff, and he’s got a conflict with his neighbor, and that’s the other guy, Norton.

Brett Norton. You know, we had planned this, uh, as a tribute for 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: and then when we were research, when I was researching for this, I realized that this gentleman just passed away last month. And, and I don’t know him as well, but I remember reading when he had passed because he was on the show Brooklyn Nine Nine, which, uh, is kind of a cult.

for some people. Um, and everything that I read just went on and on about what a great guy he was. I had forgotten that he was in this and I had forgotten that he passed away. He’s got this great like base voice and he plays a Jerk in this movie, and I also forgot that in this movie he disappears halfway through it like for a reason But for some reason I I felt like I remembered that he came back or that we found out what happened to him And we don’t like he just leaves and then you never see him again.

Yeah But, but David and his son and this guy, Norton, go into town because they need supplies because the storm has like knocked out the electricity and stuff. And the, the, the store, it’s, it’s a, it’s like a rural grocery store. Not like Walmart, but like, I don’t remember, they said what it was called. Like the food mart.

The food, 

Todd: uh, house. The food house. What a generic, crazy name. 

Craig: Yeah, but it’s really busy. Like, everybody’s there. This just happened to me in my hometown. We just had a, a great big, uh, snowstorm. And I went to the grocery store to, like, get some supplies and things, and it was crazy crowded. Like, you would think that people, it was the apocalypse.

So this really does happen. I don’t know if it happens in cities, but it definitely happens in small towns. Like the, the, the store is bustling, and then they see, like, a bunch of cop cars and fire trucks go by, and then, like, the emergency sirens, like, Tornado sirens is what I know them as go on and all of a sudden this huge thick mist rolls in and Then they are just in this thick mist and I don’t even like people are scared.

Nobody knows what to do This one mom is like I have to go home. My kids are home by themselves Won’t anybody help me? She’s like isn’t there any gentleman here who will walk me home? But they’re all so scared, they don’t know what’s going on, and from that moment, I just felt like, obviously, this is a really bizarre scenario, and it only becomes even more bizarre when, like, prehistoric sized bugs, and, and giant monsters with giant tentacles that can kill you start showing up.

That makes it even more bizarre, but it felt cool. This scenario felt real and that’s what I love about Stephen King, you know, he just had that idea in a grocery store and I have read other things about his inspirations for his work and he just has random ideas like what if what if and then he realizes them and I Think that that’s maybe why his work is so popular is Because I don’t know What would you do if giant bugs started attacking the grocery store?

It’s crazy. I don’t know specifically what you want to talk about. There are so many compelling things because this store is full of people and they all seem real, and you really kind of get invested in the humanity of everybody. Yeah. 

Todd: You really do. Even the so called, you know, sinister characters, uh, it’s just, you know, they just have a different outlook on life, really.

Right. We’re more aware of that now than ever. You know, they’re, they’re just, everybody’s nervous, everybody’s scared, and everybody looks at life through a particular lens, and that affects how they’re going to respond, and whether they’re gonna think other people are being helpful, or whether they’re gonna be full of crap.

You know, for example, The main character, uh, David, goes to the back room. Uh, what was he doing? I can’t 

remember 

Craig: what he was doing back there. He’s, he’s trying to find a, a, a blanket for his kid. That’s right. Because his kid is scared, yeah. 

Todd: And then he notices that the generator is like, it’s like, the exhaust is coming back in.

It’s like starting to fill up the room with smoke and stuff. So he turns it off, which of course cuts the lights. Uh, and then he’s tripping his way back out and brings the other characters back there to kind of help. Well, one kid wants to go outside to unblock the clogged vent. By this point, they’ve seen him.

Diva monster 

Craig: or something. What’s, what’s the guy’s name? What’s the main guy’s name? David. Yeah. When he turned the generator off, it got very quiet and he heard something outside. And, and like, it seemed like something was pressing up. Against that the garage, you know, loading dock door or whatever. And so when they’re like the kid who’s just like a bag boy, he’s young, says, you know, to turn the generator on and get the door open just enough.

And I’ll go out there and, uh, I’ll go out there and unclog it. And, and David’s like, no, no, no, no, no. But everybody else just thinks he’s. dumb. They think that he’s a pussy. Like, what are you, what are you scared of? And it’s almost as though they’ve got something to prove. And one of my favorite characters is one of the grocery store workers.

I think his name is Ollie, the short guy. He’s played by Toby Jones, uh, who I, I didn’t see this movie, but he played Truman Capote. Remember that time when there were like two Truman Capote movies out? I do remember. He played a Truman Capote in a movie. He’s really good in this. He’s very unassuming, but he is very level headed.

It’s such a great juxtaposition because he seems so unassuming, like nobody would ever look to him to be the hero, but he’s totally level headed and is so helpful. People are basically good, decent, oh my god, David, we’re a civilized society. Sure, as long as the machines are working and you can dial 911, but you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, you scare the shit out of them.

No more rules. You’ll see how primitive they get. They scare people badly enough. You can get them to do anything. They’ll turn to whoever promises a solution. Or whatever. Ollie, please, back me up here. I wish I could. As a species, we’re fundamentally insane. But more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another.

Why do you think we invented politics and religion? He says something like, this is only to be expected. What’s happening to us is unexplainable, and what’s happening here is a problem has been put in front of them that they can do something about, and there won’t be any stopping them. And he’s right.

Like, you know, these guys are scared, but this is a problem. That they think that they can fix, um, and it gives them some feeling of control. Well, anyway, they open up the door and they’re laughing. They’re like, see, nothing to be scared of. And then these enormous tentacles come under and grab the kid. And it’s great.

Todd: It is great. This is a fantastic action scene as are all the action scenes in here. And I have to say, I love two things about this. Number one, that effect. With the mist just lingering there, but not really coming into the room, was insane. And I was trying to figure out, did they do that with CGI? Because this was earlier in CGI.

They did, and it’s all practical. It had something to do with temperature and air pressure and stuff. And then, that design of those tentacles coming in freaked me out. Like, not only are these tentacles kind of flat, they can almost open up almost like a pedal would open up wide. Yeah. And then there are spines, spines on the outside of it.

And then within the pedal there are more spines that open up. It’s like, they’re like 

Craig: lamp rays. Oh my god. Like they, they’re those, like those things that like attach onto sharks. Yeah. , you know, like just a big mouth like, but mouth, it’s not really a mouth. No, it does seem like whatever this creature is it like sniffs around and eats things with its tentacles and it Rips part of that kid off like it rips flesh off his leg It rips a big chunk off of his chest and it eventually just pulls him out and and he’s gone And and then they tell Some people, they don’t want to get everybody scared, but they do tell some people, and people just don’t believe them.

Todd: At some point, I think it gets a little weird, because, um, the, the, the actor, the Andre Broggers, uh, role that we’re also tributing today, Brenton Norton, he really has a chip on his shoulder, and Yeah, he’s a jerk. He’s a jerk and he is just utterly convinced that everybody else is out to make a fool out of him and he’s got this sort of racist subtext that, that comes through, he accuses David of being racist, and they’re like, no, really, and it doesn’t matter that there are six guys standing in front of him saying, no, really, it’s true.

He’s not even willing to go back there and look. Right. I thought, really? I don’t know. 

Craig: And when they do, they take this, the store manager, the store manager doesn’t believe them either. And they take him back there because they chopped off a part of one of the tentacles and they show the store manager and, but then they like poke at it and then it dissolves and disappears, which is weird.

That’s kind of an odd storytelling choice. But he then believes, and he goes out and says, To the, to everybody, uh, I think we may have a sizable problem. Or something like that. 

Todd: Understatement of the year. 

Craig: It was hilarious. One of the things, I tried, so I had to buy this movie. It’s not streaming on any of the services that I pay for.

I, I couldn’t find it streaming for free anyway. Anywhere, but it was on sale at the time of this recording. I have no idea when this will come out. It was on sale on Vudu for five dollars. But I wanted to see the director’s cut. There is a director’s cut, and I don’t think that it’s It’s much different than the theatrical cut, except for that it’s in black and white.

Frank Darabont wanted to film this movie in black and white and the studio said no. And I get it. Yeah. I understand why they said no. It’s not, if it’s in black and white, it’s not going to make as much money. I get it, but I would really like to see this movie in black and white because it feels, it doesn’t feel like an old movie, but it’s in the same vein as those old B movies.

Like, you know, the giant bees or the giant rats or whatever. It feels like something that my dad would have gone to see for a nickel. On a Saturday afternoon in style. I mean, obviously it’s modern and it looks modern. There’s more that they can do with special effects and the cinematography is beautiful, but it still has the feel of those old B movies.

And I think it’d be really fun to see in black and white. 

Todd: Yeah. And a lot of that was deliberate. I know that Dear Bond, when they were designing the production, they didn’t want the movie to feel like a period piece, but they didn’t, they didn’t really want to set it in a particular time, so they mixed up the car models to be like older car models, like for the police.

They have characters with flip phones in there, but then they have like people wearing other kind of clothing, and he just kind of deliberately muddled that a little bit. I also was surprised because I did not remember this, that the movie is shot in the documentary style and the first time somebody walks into that supermarket and there’s a zoom on them, I was like, Oh, that was stark.

And it’s funny because up until the point they come into the supermarket, it’s all very normal, standard movie style shooting. And then suddenly it becomes very documentary style. And I read that he. I guess he directed an episode of The Shield, which was a TV series in the 90s, right? Cop, 

Craig: yeah. 

Todd: Cop series, yeah.

Yeah, and he basically took the crew from them while they were on like an eight week hiatus to shoot this movie in that style because they were really good at running and gunning it and giving it that. That cop movie documentary type style. And then, you know, the other thing I was expecting to see again, I remembered it so differently from when we watched it as I remembered it as being kind of one of those slicker looking, uh, early two thousands kind of movies, but it’s not.

No. And again, deliberate choice by him. He was going to shoot a digital, and when they did the test, he thought it looked too pretty. And so, he shot it on film, and it shows, and the lighting is sometimes flat, you know, sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s just, it doesn’t have that where, you know, the, the halo effect around everybody and all that, like you got for these bigger theatrical movies around this time period.

And especially lodged in that time period with all the movies around it, I think it probably set itself apart. With those choices and they were good choices. It really gets you down in it and really makes you feel like it’s something that’s actually happening. I loved those choices. I thought it was great.

And you’re right. I would love to see it in black and white. It would probably just complete 

Craig: the picture. Yeah, I think so too. So now, okay, so they know that there’s something out there. Uh, and Ali, the voice of reason throughout the whole movie is like, what if something gets in here and somebody is like, well, we closed the door and he’s like, the whole front of the store is plate glass.

It’s And it is. And so they start setting up dog food bags and fertilizer bags to try to create a barrier in front. But it is. I mean, it’s like an old school grocery store. No, okay, I mean the whole, it’s, it’s floor to ceiling glass, and there’s also human drama going on. Mrs. Carmody, who is the religious zealot that we were talking about before, she’s saying that it’s, it’s the wrath of God, and it’s, you know, because we’re sinners, and there’s no defense against the will of God.

There’s no court of appeals in hell. There’s no defense here either. Not even with all the fertilizer in the world. Not even if you stack it as high as you can. It’s still just bags of shit, isn’t it? Open your eyes. Let the scales fall away. This has all been written. Revelations, chapter 15. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God.

And from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. Well, what are you saying? What are you proposing? That we all prepare to meet our maker. And I don’t want to breeze over that too much, because at first, she’s just The Town Loon. And they all kind of understand 

Todd: that.

Yeah, they literally say it. One of the guys says, Hey, for any of you outsiders, just so you know, she’s known as being a little unhinged. Yeah, 

Craig: it’s some biker guy who, Frank Darabont wanted that character to be Stephen King, but Stephen King wouldn’t do it. Some biker guys like, uh, yeah, obviously like so they all know that he’s and she’s nuts, but as things get more dire People turn to her because I believe this people want something to turn to they want hope they want an explanation Yeah, right, and if she can provide that if and she does It’s, it’s very frightening.

Todd: It’s very frightening because it’s almost a little microcosm of what you see happening over a longer period of time, you know, out in public. This leads me to the character of Jim, who’s played by William Sadler. Uh huh. Oh yeah, also in Shawshank, uh, he was in Tales from the Crypt, Demon Knight, Die Hard 2, he’s very recognizable.

Um, I love this guy, I love it whenever I see a character. He does tend to play these kinds of characters, but not always. 

Craig: He played David in the, uh, audio play of The Mist. 

Todd: Oh, interesting. Well, he played Death in one of the Bill and Ted movies as well. Yeah, one of the later ones. Yeah. He’s a good actor. He’s fantastic.

Uh, and he has a very, uh, distinct look. And I love, I love to see his transition here. Because at first he’s standoffish. And he’s one of the guys who is teasing David and almost Now, 

Craig: I know, I know, you’re a big shot artist with connections in New York and Hollywood and all like that, but that don’t make you better than anybody else, not in my book.

Hey, I didn’t say that. Nor do I like being talked down to or called stupid by a guy who went to college just because he’s got the jitters. Fellas, it doesn’t even matter about the generator, the food will keep without it. Kid! I’m gonna start the motor, you raise the door, and you yell out when you got enough room.

Yeah. Okay, good. Wait! You guys gonna let this kid risk his life over a generator? It doesn’t even matter? Would you just shut the f up already? Norm! Listen, Mr. Drayton, I tell you what. The next time you got something to say, you count your teeth. Because I’m sick to death of your bullshit. 

Todd: Alright? And he pushes maybe harder than any of the rest of them to let this kid go outside in the back when he wants to when all those tentacles come in.

And his feeling of guilt from that totally breaks this man down. And so you can see how later on he changes sides. He is very attracted to what this woman is saying. I guess it’s going to help him assuage his guilt. You know, cosmically and morally to follow her direction. And it was a very believable change, but it was also very maddening to see.

Craig: Right. Yeah, it is. He’s a great character. There are so many great characters. There’s a really cute cashier girl who we don’t get to know very well at all. But. Still, I was compelled by her. Like, I’m, I’m just compelled by all of the, the people. Frances Sternhagen is Mrs. Reppler. She’s an old lady schoolteacher.

I’m an old man schoolteacher, so I understand, like, you know everybody, because you had them in class, or you had their kids in class, and everybody knows you, you know? Mrs. Reppler. You haven’t met Amanda Dumtree. She’s new in town as of this semester. Teaches third grade and the special ed kids now that Mosher’s retired.

She’s wonderful. The kids love her. And, uh, David’s an artist. He does movie posters and such. Oh, and me? Lord, I’m Babbling away like some old biddy at a tea party. My nerves are jangled, I guess. And she’s great. She’s fantastic. Um, there’s a guy named Dan, uh, who’s an old man, who’s the first one, when the mist rolls in, he comes running in and he’s bl he’s got blood on his shirt.

He says, something in the mist took John Lee. I could hear him screaming. There are just so many, uh, great characters, and you care about them all, but eventually what happens is Well, nighttime comes, and they are kind of barricaded up, but they also have lanterns in the windows, I assume, so that they can see out, but what it does is it draws these things, and it first draws things that look kind of like House flies or hornets because they have stingers, but they’re the size of a medium sized dog.

That, that scares them, but it’s more fascinating than frightening until even bigger, like you said, pterodactyl like things start Attacking those smaller things, like they’re eating them, like they’re picking them off. But, they do eventually break the glass and get in. Um, and it’s sca I mean, it’s scary, it’s monsters!

You know, when they start At first it doesn’t really seem like they’re there to attack the humans, but it’s like, oh, well, there’s people here, so. We can attack them too. It’s like they almost get 

Todd: discovered, right? And so it’s like now they’re swinging in. I thought that was terrifying because once that glass is broken, you’re open to the world now.

And that’s what happens. And it is an intense scene, uh, once the, uh, the flies start coming in. And then the 

Craig: So much stuff happens. The bigger creatures come in. Well, the cute girl gets stung. In the neck, by one of the smaller things, and then she has a re like her whole head and face swell up and she dies.

And then, they’re also trying, they’re like soaking mops in lighter fluid, uh, to use as torches, as weapons. But one guy, like, dips his mop in the lighter fluid and lights it on fire, and then trips on the bucket, and sets himself And, and a big part of the store on fire. Oh God. And this like, there’s chaos going on all around, people trying to fight and one guy is just fully engulfed in flames and, and running around.

Yeah. It’s an insane action scene. And it goes on for a while and it almost gets the kid and Ollie is shooting Ollie’s like a sharpshooter. , yeah. . And uh, you know, he’s shooting these things. It almost gets the little boy. Um, and then somehow they get it calmed down and they get the windows. Taped back up and things are quiet again for a while, but so much has gone on and we also find out there are a few military guys in there and somehow or other, I don’t remember how, we find out that this military base that’s a military base that’s Just outside of town has been doing this project where they’re exploring other dimensions.

And the guy says, you know, they thought maybe we could open a window to look in and see what’s going on in there, but I think that they opened it too far.

And that’s really the only explanation that we get and it’s really, it’s basically speculation. Like, he doesn’t really know, uh, it’s just kind of what he’s heard. But what we 

Todd: do get, and I do remember this bit, by the way, we are now only halfway through the movie. That is how much stuff happens, and I was just glued to the screen the whole time.

Oh, I know. A group of them managed to go out, pretty much all the little characters that we mentioned, except for the, the religious zealot woman, managed to get out, and they There’s like a pharmacy next door 

Craig: or something? Yeah, it’s right next door. Uh huh. They’re trying to get medicine for the burned guy because he is in terrible pain and is begging them to kill him.

Mm hmm. So they, so they go to try to get medicine for him. That’s 

Todd: right. And inside there, they find there are people hanging from the ceiling, basically cocooned. It’s strong, like, aliens vibes. Very much. To be, to be honest. Uh, and there’s They find out one of these guys who is dressed as a military policeman MP is half alive and he just starts like gurgling and saying, you know, it’s all our fault.

It’s all our fault. We we did this. And that’s what leads them to question the 

Craig: military guys. And then his whole body explodes and a million spiders come out of it. And then bigger spiders giant spiders that shoot It’s so ridiculous when you think 

Todd: about it. Acid spiderwebs and giant flies. It is 

Craig: ridiculous, but it’s fun.

And I also, I like that there don’t have to be any rules. These are interdimensional beings. They can do whatever they want. The other thing that I like about it is, like, there are creatures of all sizes. There are also, like, dinosaur sized creatures. Um, that we only get Glimpses of. Because everything is shrouded in the mist.

So, even when we see them, we’re really just kind of seeing the silhouette. But Whatever these things are and wherever they come from, it doesn’t seem like they are evil. Like they’re not like actively pursuing people, they just now happen to exist here and people can be prey. They’re doing what they do, yeah.

Right, I mean they’re just animals or bugs or whatever, they don’t have like a vendetta, they just have spilled into our reality and, and they’re existing with us now. And, and there are a lot, you know, there are other things, uh, after this. People are starting now to get on Ms. Carmody’s side. And she has several long, not super long, but lengthy monologues.

And, and she’s, she’s also just Bitch, like there’s one character that we haven’t even talked about yet. There’s this pretty young woman. She’s new in town She’s a new teacher in town. Her name is Amanda. She’s blonde She just doesn’t like her for some reason and calls her a slut and a whore for no reason now To be fair in the book Uh, Amanda and David are having an affair.

They even they have sex. In the book. Like, in the course of these events, while they are stuck in the grocery store, they have sex. And I’m glad that they removed Yeah, 

Todd: that’d be a little hard to shoehorn in there. 

Craig: And it’s, well, it’s, it’s very stereotypical Stephen King because Stephen King writes flawed characters.

His protagonists are most often flawed in some way. They’re not, they’re not perfect. Good guys. So that’s very much in, in keeping with him, but I’m glad they took it out of the movie, it’s just unnecessary, and it makes it easier to root for Thomas Jane plays David, and I, you know, I don’t know, Thomas Jane I’ve seen in several things, he was in Deep Blue Sea, I like that movie, he was, uh, The Punisher, 

Todd: yeah, I remember him from Boogie 

Craig: Nights, oh yeah, he was in Boogie Nights, he was good in that, but he’s a ruggedly handsome, Man, it makes it easier to root for him.

You know, he’s a dad. That’s his primary concern. So I don’t need a, I don’t need his character complicated more than that. Like, you know, he, he, he’s promising his kid that he’s gonna get him home to his mom, which doesn’t happen, and, uh, At one point the kid’s, the kid says, Dad, promise me that you won’t let The monsters get me ever and that is something I had forgotten.

I have seen this movie dozens of times But it has been a really long time since I’ve sat down and actually watched it start to finish And there were lots of little things that I forgot. That’s important When the kid says, promise you won’t let the monsters get me, ever, His dad keeps that promise. He does.

Ah! Oh, God. Um, but anyway, at this point, you know, more stuff happens. They, uh, the lady finds out that the military was behind it, and so the one remaining military guy who’s there, who is in no way responsible, you know. Yeah. His only connection is that he happens to be a part of the military. He’s also a local boy, but Mrs.

Carver, these whole mob turns on him and the butcher stabs him multiple times in the gut before they throw him out. To be eaten by one of those giant creatures, which happens 

Todd: right in front of them. It’s interesting because her reaction, the woman who’s been stirring this up the whole time, suddenly, for a moment, flits to horror.

Like, you can tell she’s shocked by the fact that this guy’s now being stabbed, and she riled him up, you know, what did she think was gonna eventually happen, but then she instantly switches and it’s almost like now she’s bloodthirsty. 

Craig: Oh yeah, she feels empowered by it. She 

Todd: feels empowered. It’s like she talks, starts talking about God demands sacrifices, 

Craig: expiation, like they’re chanting expiation.

It’s really scary and, and the ones, there’s like, I don’t know, eight people in David’s group. Who we are to believe are the rational people who not only don’t buy into her craziness, but they also recognize the danger of it and early on they, yeah, they decided, uh, Ollie, I think it’s Ollie. I don’t know.

Maybe it’s Dan. Um, somebody says, this is what people do. You know, we’re the only species who finds reasons. To kill one another and that plays very much it is you said before Lord of the Flies It’s very Lord of the Flies, but the this group of like eight of them mind you there’s still probably what 40 50 people Yeah, they’re in the store and most of them are on Miss Carmody’s side and These like eight of them Decide that they’re going to leave and Ollie secretly packs up bags of groceries and hides them and they’re going to leave at dawn and they wake up at dawn and they’re going to go and David goes to get the groceries and they’re gone.

And Miss Carmody is sitting there stealing food now going out now, Mrs. Carmody, please stand aside. You can’t go out. I won’t allow it, won’t allow it. It’s against God’s will. And this is the big showdown? Mm hmm. Oh my god. I thought it was Ugh. I remember the first time I saw it, it was so unexpected, and I was so scared.

Because she starts calling for sacrifice, and she says she wants the boy. Yeah. And all of these people are surrounding them. It’s hopeless. Yeah, they are, they are outnumbered and the people around them are armed with knives and other weapons. And, and the woman, she first calls for the boy and then she’s like, and grab the whore too.

And then she just starts saying, kill them all, kill them all. And it looks like they’re going to, until you hear a gunshot and you see her take it in the abdomen. And then the camera cuts to Ollie. And he shoots her again, right in the middle of the forehead. And then everybody’s stunned. Nobody knows what to do.

So, I think David just says, Thank you, Ollie. Yes. And he, no, Ollie says, I killed her. 

Todd: I shot her. Yeah, yeah. And he says, thank you, Ollie. Yeah. But 

Craig: he had to. Yeah. There was no other getting out of that. He No. He had to chop off The head of the snake and given time, maybe another one would sprout up in its place, but they don’t wait for that to happen.

They just, while everybody is still stunned by what is going on, they get out of there and they have to go out into the mist and they’re going to his car and some of them make it and some of them don’t like this is, yeah, you, we can’t do it justice. Dear listeners, surely you have seen this movie, but if you haven’t, if you haven’t, we cannot do it justice.

This is also harrowing. Like I was on the edge of my seat. It’s so suspenseful and, and, uh, it’s just so effective, but yeah, then they, so they go out. And, and when you get to the car, well, some of them do. Some of ’em do. Some of them get taken down. 

Todd: Five of ’em eventually get there. David is driving, um, the, the woman, uh, that you said, uh, the blonde.

Amanda? Yeah, Amanda. 

Craig: His son. The teacher. The old teacher. The old man. Ollie doesn’t make it. Ollie gets taken by one of the big dinosaur 

Todd: ones. Which is so unfair, right? Like, he’s the guy who saved the day, and he’s the first to get sucked up. It doesn’t really surprise 

Craig: me. And they watch everybody, like, they kind of watch everybody else get picked off.

And then, um, Ollie had the gun, and when he got Taken away. He dropped it and it landed on the hood of the car. And David goes for it. And everybody else is screaming like, no, get back in the car, get back, and a, a spider is coming, but he gets the gun. Um, and the spider kind of crawls over the top of the car, and they’re all just kind of sitting there stunned.

And Mrs. Reer, the teacher is like, are we going ? Mm-Hmm . And they just, they just drive away and they drive. Right in front of the store, and everybody else just watches them go. And I think The store manager had been one of the ones, wasn’t he one of the ones that tried to leave with them? But they got separated and I think he ended up back in the store I had never noticed that before but it hit me this time like he had been with them But hadn’t made it and had gotten back to the store and had to watch them go Oh, you’re right, which sucked and and so then they just drive away and He’s like well, I guess we’ll see how far We can get, and, and Amanda’s like, well, maybe we can get out of the mist.

Maybe we can get out of the mist! And they drive past David and his son’s house, and see his wife there in one of the spider cocoons. I had forgotten that too! 

Todd: That was horrible. And, and it’s cool because they’re going through the mist and you just see in the shadows kind of coming in and out of the mist, these wildly shaped creatures.

It looks like they’re driving through another dimension, you know, there’s this giant towering creature that just slowly walks just over them. And it’s just such a hellscape, you know, of, of despair. It’s 

Craig: hopeless. Yeah, it’s hopeless. And when, when she says, maybe we’ll make it out of the mist and then they drive and they drive for God knows how long, but eventually the car just runs out of gas.

And there they are. And I don’t know. I typically when I’m watching movies for the podcast, Listen through earbuds, and I’m glad I didn’t this because there’s a lot of ambient creature noise that I don’t think I’ve ever noticed before, like they can hear these creatures all around them and that this the ending people criticize the ending.

There are people who hate hate this ending because it is different. I think I’ll say first that in the novella they drive. And I think that they pick up something on the radio that leads them to another location. Like, they’re, they’re gonna go somewhere else where they believe other people are. And that’s, that’s where it ends.

It just ends. Uh, you don’t know what happens to them. There is no explanation for What is happening or if it is going to stop. It’s just over. This ending is very different. It sure 

Todd: is. Well, they just pull up and they stop and they’re just looking at each other and it doesn’t even need to be said. 

Craig: I know, but they do talk.

I like that the old lady says, well, nobody can say we didn’t try. And somebody else, I don’t know if it’s the old man or somebody says, nope, they can’t say that. Like we tried. But like you said, then there is a very effective and moving scene where they communicate without words. They come to an understanding without talking about anything.

Yeah. But he, he pulls out the gun. And there’s only four bullets, and there’s five of them, and he says that, four bullets, and Amanda says that there’s five of us, and he says, I’ll figure something out. God, like, it feels weird. To recap it, because it’s so powerful and emotional, that just, I, this feels like not doing it justice, but it, uh, they all kind of look at each other, um, and I think the old man kind of nods, and the camera at Cuts to an outside shot of the car, and you hear four gunshots and see, uh, you know, the sparks from the gun, and then it cuts back into the car, a tight close up on Thomas Chain, and he just wails.

And it’s, he’s really good in this moment. And you think, that’s the most awful thing that could happen. But it’s not. Ha 

Todd: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. He steps out of the car, sort of in a like, take me now moment. You know, it’s all he can do.

And suddenly, the mist starts clearing away. And cars are coming by, the military guys are there, the people with the hazmat suits, they’re fire blasting things, a truck goes by, and we didn’t mention this woman earlier, but Carol from The Walking Dead is in this, Melissa McBride. Yeah, I 

Craig: mentioned her. Oh, you did.

She was the, she was the buzz cut mom who begged somebody. To help her get home. What I didn’t say was nobody did help her, but eventually she just left and you assumed that she was dead. But no, she and her kids are fine. 

Todd: They just go by and kind of stare at him as they go by on the truck. And there he is on his knees, wailing as well.

Everything is Been cleared away, and it’s done. Oh my god, how horrifying is this? And, I remember when I first saw it, that was a gut punch. This hurt me even more this time. You know, his own child? Yeah, 

Craig: it’s terrible. It is, like, I can’t think offhand of a more bleak ending of any story. It’s terrible. It is absolutely terrible.

And he now is going to have to live with that forever. Yeah. And it’s awful. And that’s, uh, people criticize the ending and they criticize it for differing from, you know, Stephen King’s original ending. Stephen King loves the ending. Yeah. Says he wishes that that’s how he would have ended it. It is suggested in the story, uh, the dad thinks about it.

He thinks in the worst case scenario, what would I have to do? I’ve only got four bullets or whatever. Um, but It doesn’t come to fruition. And, uh, Darabont brings it to fruition. In fact, he only agreed to do the movie if they promised they wouldn’t make him change the ending. Oh, yeah. 

Todd: He fought for it. He was offered way more money earlier on.

Craig: And they didn’t. And that’s, it’s surprising. Because it’s a very surprising ending for a studio movie. It really is. But I think it’s excellent. I think it’s, it’s brilliant. I don’t, I think that The movie would still be enjoyable, but I don’t think people would have talked about it as much. I don’t think it would have been as memorable if it weren’t for that really bleak ending.

And I think it’s very much in keeping with the tone of the rest of the movie. I think it’s a very fitting, albeit upsetting, Way to end the story once this 

Todd: movie was done. I just was in I was down I was down for the rest of the day. It’s very depressing. I needed to watch some kitchen nightmares or something to like cheer me up But but it is fitting I completely agree I will defend this ending it is highly appropriate and as I think Darabont himself said I’m not sure People go to horror movies wanting a nice, clean, pat ending.

Right? And we certainly didn’t get it here. And we don’t, do we? Like, we, how many movies do we watch that, uh, fittingly end on a, on a downer? It was 

Craig: great. That’s the thing. Like, as depressing as it is, it’s, it’s just such a good movie. It works. The, the story is fantastic. The, the, the acting is great. The cinematography is great.

The pacing is excellent. Like, I was on the edge of my seat. It’s long. It’s, it’s over two hours. It’s like two hours and eight minutes or something. Doesn’t feel long at all. It’s compelling all the way through. Marsha Gay Harden. It is. is the scariest thing in the movie. I think that she is brilliant. I think that her performance is amazing.

You know, these, these two actors, I’m particularly fond of Frances Sternhagen. Like you said, if the name isn’t familiar to you, and it’s really not all that familiar to me, but her face is. You’ve seen her. She’s been around forever. She’s lovely. She’s played a variety of characters. All of them that I can recall, uh, I’ve enjoyed.

I I said Sex and the City isn’t worth it. It’s really not. It hasn’t aged well, but her character was hilarious. She was this rich, waspy, older woman. Very, very funny. And then, uh, Andre Braugher, who played Brent Norton. You’ll recognize his voice. He is a beautiful, manly voice. 

Todd: Brooklyn 

Craig: Nine Nine. Yeah, that’s the thing, like, I’m not as familiar with him because I didn’t watch that show and I didn’t watch the other crime procedural that he was a lead in, but he’s been around.

He’s an award winning actor. He has Emmys and stuff, you know, he’s, and I know that he has a lot of fans and he just It’s passed recently and he wasn’t 

Todd: that old. No, he was 61. Lung cancer, sadly. 

Craig: Yeah. They are just among a very strong cast. Oh god, yeah. An incredibly strong cast. Yeah, it’s, it’s I can’t say enough.

I love this movie. I love this movie! It could have 

Todd: gone wrong in so many ways. It could have gotten cheesy. It could have gone silly. And it doesn’t. You’re right. I think, of course the writing. But the cast. without these fantastic actors really doing what they do. And of course, the direction of Darabont, who really seems to get human drama.

Yeah, very very well. Oh, it’s it’s a it’s crazy that it’s taken us this long to get to it. I 

Craig: know it’s really bizarre But I’m glad that we finally did you know, we have been doing this for so long I’ve said this before but most of the movies that we love we’ve done and some How this one has just kind of fallen between the cracks until now, but I’m really glad that we got around to it.

It’s a great movie. I couldn’t recommend it more 

Todd: highly. Yeah. Go see it. If you haven’t, please. Well, thank you so much for listening to our episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend, like us on Facebook, on Twitter, subscribe to us on our YouTube channel. Check out our newsletter that we’re putting out every week.

You can find it all at Chainsaw Horror dot com. Send us a voice message, uh, just click talk to us on there, and you can just use your computer, just your web browser is all you need to send a quick little 30 second or 60 second voice message to us that we, uh, may play later on the air. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Our tribute episode to Burt Young, beloved wiseguy of countless films, best known for the Rocky series and – amongst OUR listenership – for being the angry dad in the deliciously wacky Amityville II. That SHOULD have been our tribute episode to him instead of this boring turkey that’s trying really, really hard to be “Jaws on a beach” but ends up more like “nod off on the sofa”. Spend some time in the sand with us!

Blood Beach (1981)

Episode 377, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Well, here we are, Craig, with, I think, our very first tribute episode of 2024.  

Craig: How exciting. Ooh.

Todd: It’s an event.

Craig: It’s our first tribute episode.

Todd: January’s always fun. It gives me something to talk about at the beginning.

It’s our first XYZ of the new year. And then I’m scraping for things. I’m excited. I can tell. We’re both very excited. Yes. We’re just, boy, we can’t wait to talk about this damn movie. But before we talk about the movie, let’s talk about who we’re who we’re tributing. Burt Young. Aged 83. Died in October of last year.

And we’ve been meaning to get a tribute episode out, but darn it, when you people die in the middle of the holiday season, you know, we’ve got all these Christmas plans and Halloween plans, we’ve got to wedge in that Thanksgiving horror movie somewhere. We tend to put it off. We’ve got a couple tribute episodes that we’re gonna try to bang out this month.

And Burt Young is the first of them.

Craig: It’s funny, cause you’re so, you’re so determined about them. I care. Like, when, when Burt Young died and the, the lady that we’re gonna do next week, you’re like, we gotta do a tribute. I’m like, okay. And then so much time, so much time goes by, and I, I, I just I figure you’ll forget, but you don’t.

Todd: You want me to forget, don’t ya? No, I don’t 

Craig: care. I mean, I like, Burt Young, you know, I like him. We’ve done, uh, he was in Amityville 2, and we did that, and that was a fun episode. 

Todd: I really liked that. Oh, God. Fun movie, fun episode. I’ve actually, that’s one of those few kind of dumb movies that I’ve gone back to a few times.

Just because it was so quirky and weird. Oh, God. It was weird. It 

Craig: was fun to talk about and he was in that and of course, you know, I think I don’t know guys our age What what I know him from is Rocky. He was Rocky’s Dumb big mouth brother in law Adrian’s brother, but I loved him in those movies. I thought he was funny.

Yeah, he really brought like some levity to those, I don’t know, like he and Sylvester Stallone just played off one another so well, like he was the little big mouth tough guy and Stallone was the big dummy. Don’t get me wrong, love those movies. God, he was in almost all 

Todd: of them. 

Craig: I think he is in all of them.

All of them 

Todd: except the latest ones or whatever, when they kind of go 

Craig: to Creed. When they switched it to Creed’s Kid, right. But. He’s always the same. Like, he, the man doesn’t have any rage. And that’s alright, that’s fine. 

Todd: Like, what a lucky gig. Yeah, good for you, you’re famous. I know. When you need this kind of like, tough talking, wise cracking, wise guy, Brooklyn y, Italian American dude.

He’s the guy. Yeah, he’s great. And he milked it for all it was worth all over TV, all over movies. If you’re going to be an actor, you need to find a gig. You know, you need to specialize in one little thing and just milk that for all it’s worth. That’s the two kinds of acting. There’s the actors who have all this range and can do amazing things and seem to be able to disappear into any character.

And then there’s that other actor on the other end of the spectrum that gets wildly successful by just doing the same thing over and over again. And it’s just needed a lot. 

Craig: Sure. You know. Right. And honest to God, like, it’s been a long time. If you’re a new listener and you haven’t listened to the Amityville 2 episode, like, the episode I thought was fun, great, whatever, but you should watch that movie because it’s nuts.

It’s bananas. Crazy. 

Todd: Just when you can’t think it gets any weirder, you’re just like, Oh my god! 

Craig: And he’s good in it. He’s really, uh, angry.

Todd: He is 

Craig: hilarious in this movie because he’s just this side character that just pops up to be that guy. Hey, uh, I’m a, I’m a cup and, um, I’m cynical about things. 

Todd: Cynical and aloof about everything that’s going on. He’s 

Craig: hilarious. He just hangs out in the side. Like he has no, no impact on the plot whatsoever at all.

Like he, he’s just a, well, okay, you’re right at the end, but he’s just, uh, yeah, he’s just a side character to laugh at and I thought it was pretty funny. It was one of the few things that I found amusing. About this movie. 

Todd: But, you know, to be fair, and thank God for this anyway, A lot of times we get these, uh, tribute episodes And we dig out something that this actor has done And, uh, it turns out And they’re barely in it.

Like Kelly Preston in Christine.

Craig: I still feel bad about Kelly Preston. Oh, God. We did her dirty. We 

Todd: did her dirty. Well, we didn’t have any other choice, did we? No, I don’t think so. I mean, honestly, his best tribute episode would be, would have been Amityville, but David was still alive then. This time though, at least he’s in it a lot.

He’s in probably every third scene, but you know, you’re right. It’s like, what can you say about it? He’s playing that guy he always plays, uh, and he’s doing a fine job of it. So the movie, the movie that we’re doing is Blood Beach from 1981. And I admit I had high. I don’t know. My hopes were you did. 

Craig: No, you were excited.

Todd: I kind of was. No, this movie, this movie pops up every now and then in my consciousness for reasons I can’t explain or backtr I can’t figure it out. But for some reason this movie has always been in my consciousness as one of those. Early 80s horror movies that we need to get to because it seems interesting.

And I think it’s only because of the compelling poster art. It has a woman, with really freaky eyes, who is sinking into sand on a beach. And, obviously, something’s pulling her down into it or something like that. And I guess I’ve always thought, ah, that’s, that’s cool. Yeah. It’s like tremors, 

Craig: but No, it intentionally looks like Jaws, because that’s what it’s capitalizing.

It looks like a woman who’s I don’t remember what the Jaws poster was. She’s drowning in a I mean, it’s basically like she’s being attacked by a shark, except she’s not in the water. She’s on the beach, and she’s getting pulled down into the sand. And that’s what this movie tries to be. It just fails miserably.

Oh, 

Todd: God. Oh, God. 

Craig: But no, I was, I was excited about it, too. Because, I really like I don’t know, you seem to have some misconception that I don’t like old stupid 80s movies. I do! No, you do! That’s, that’s, yeah, that’s kind of my jam, like, I, I, I really like 80s movies. I’m super, super nostalgic for the 

Todd: 80s. I think once we go back towards the 70s is when you, uh, Yeah, 

Craig: yeah, a little bit.

Fair. But, I was kind of excited about this too, cause it’s 80s, you know, And I, I fully anticipated it being bad, and I was Oh yeah. I was stoked. I’m like, great! I love a bad 80s movie, that’s fantastic. And, uh, I read a review on IMDB, uh, that was like, This movie was awesome when I was 13, and it still is. And I was like, yes!

I am so excited. And then I watched it, and it’s just, it’s boring! It’s so 

Todd: boring! It is one of the most boring movies I have ever scene. I, I just don’t get it. There’s no blood. No, there’s a beach. Well, there’s, there’s, 

Craig: there’s that one scene. People get attacked by a monster in the sand, but you never really see it until the end.

And then you barely do. So it’s kind of just people like getting sucked into the sand and 

Todd: not often. 

Craig: No, not often. No, three or four times in the whole movie. I think that we were also a little bit Fascinated by quicksand in the 80s? 

Todd: That’s right. Or maybe just because we were kids in the 80s, we were fascinated by quicksand.

I don’t know. What happened to quicksand? Nobody ever talks about it anymore. I know. I used to think, you know, you needed to be careful walking down the street. You might fall into it, you 

Craig: know? Quicksand, you don’t, you don’t know, that’s scary stuff. But that’s kind of what it’s like. And there’s, you said there’s no blood.

But there is one scene where a girl is playfully At the beach buried in the sand and she’s like, ah, I think something’s biting my legs and and everybody freaks out and They pull her out of the sand and it looks like she’s had a menstrual emergency Like

There’s just blood all over her legs no wounds to be seen Just smeared blood all in her downstairs. I don’t even know where to begin with this movie because I don’t understand what was happening! Like, I thought, surely, well, it’s an underground sand monster and underground sand monsters need to eat, like, that’s logical.

I get it. But I don’t think that was what was going on at all. And ultimately, I don’t know what was happening. 

Todd: I don’t either. I didn’t know what was happening half the time. I did know, however, that there’s a couple here who seem to be rekindling a relationship that I have absolutely no interest in whatsoever.

That was 

Craig: weird too. Like he’s the main guy. The main guy’s name is Harry and he’s. 

Todd: Harbor Patrol? Yeah, L. A. City Harbor Patrol. I 

Craig: couldn’t figure out. Like, cause he was kind of palling around with the cops I’m like, is he a 

Todd: cop? I don’t get it. I had to read the patch on his shoulder to get that. He 

Craig: goes to work every morning by running out of his house in these little tiny bathing shorts and, like, some sort of life vest, I guess?

Yeah. That was my favorite part of the movie because he looked good in those little shorts. He had some nice legs, nice stomach. Mmm, hairy. He did. He’s a good looking man. I don’t even have the actor’s name written down. I don’t even know who that was. But every time. The dozen times that he runs out of his front door onto the beach in those little shorts, the same ones, he only has one pair.

I wonder if they filmed all of that on the same day, like, just, just keep running out of the house in your shorts. And, uh, we’ll film you and we’ll throw different people in. It’ll be like, it’s different times. 

Todd: Yeah, I think you’re about right on that one. Well, this guy, by the way, is David Huffman. And, uh, he was a pretty familiar face on television as is, I think almost every actor in this, in this movie.

It had a bit of the feel of a TV movie. Yeah, 

Craig: but there are a lot of famous people that pop up. 

Todd: There are. Well, David Huffman, um, he died, sadly, he died a few years after this, at, uh, he was only 39. This is his tribute episode. Yeah, there we go. 

Craig: He was only 39? What happened? 

Todd: That’s sad. There was a thief who broke into some couple’s motorhome as he was leaving, um, Okay, I will just read this to you.

He was bringing, this is, it’s kind of sad, really. He was bringing cookies to say farewell to his Of Mice and Men castmates. At the Old Globe Theatre. He spotted and chased a thief who had broken into a Canadian couple’s motorhome, and the thief stabbed him with a screwdriver. Oh, that’s terrible. He died.

Yeah, what a terrible, terrible way. He left two children and, and a spouse behind, and he was only 39, so um You know, that’s sad, but that is terrible at any rate. He’s in this movie and he’s got a great size.

Another fairly recognizable TV actress, Mariana Hill, uh, is his love interest. Now I didn’t recognize her from anything. Oh, I thought she had a very familiar face. You didn’t think so? 

Craig: I don’t know. Like, I, I feel like I popped onto her IMDb page and I just didn’t. Nothing resonated. I’ll 

Todd: tell you, uh, immediately I was like, She was in The Godfather, wasn’t she?

I was a little wrong. It wasn’t the first one, but it was the second one. She was Deanna Corleone, so 

Craig: Yeah, I, and, and, there was, I think, That’s, I remember that now, looking at her page. I think that there was like a, was there like a follow up Godfather series or something? I think, anyway 

Todd: More television, though, than movies.

Craig: Yeah, I, I’ve seen the Godfather movies, but I have not been obsessed with them the way that many men our age are, uh, so I don’t, I don’t, that, that doesn’t ring many bells with 

Todd: me. I’ve probably seen the second Godfather more than the first one, cause it’s A lot of people would say it was even better. Well, 

Craig: I intentionally sat down and watched the whole trilogy.

Like, because everybody else talked about how great it was, and like, it was this huge cultural phenomenon. So sometime in, uh, graduate school or just after, I, I intentionally sat down and watched them all. And I remember thinking, These are good movies. And that’s, that’s about all I remember, like, yep, 

Todd: yeah, good, good movies.

By that time, it’s kind of a suffering, like, you know, the movie that inspired so many other movies, by the time you get around to it later in life, you’ve probably seen so many of the other movies it inspired, that doesn’t feel as emotionally resonating or as groundbreaking as it did when it first came out.

I sort of feel like, now don’t get me wrong, actually. I have a different feeling about The Godfather. I still think it’s very I’m not obsessed with it, by any means, but It’s a movie that stuck with me for quite a while. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it’s inspired so many films since, and You know, that it kind of gets muddled in as just another mafia movie amongst the ones that came after, but, uh That first one, man, especially the ending, like, that kind of hit me hard.

I was like, I remember 

Craig: nothing about it. I, I just, I, I legit, I, I legit remember, I remember thinking, I get it. I get why people really like these movies. It’s good. And that’s all I 

Todd: remember about it. Alright. Well, anyway, Pauly. Yeah, well, 

Craig: yeah. Burt Young. Was he in those movies? There was a part of me that was like, Wait 

Todd: a minute, was Pauly in those movies?

God, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was, but, uh 

Craig: But he’s that kind of guy. He would work very well. Uh, as a mobster type guy. 

Todd: He was not in that movie, but he was in Serpico. He was in a lot of movies like it, for sure, right? 

Craig: And he’s in it, so, so Harry comes out in his little shorts, and he like, talks to this old lady, and she’s real nice, and she’s got a dog, and she’s like, Didn’t see you yesterday, hope you’re not getting lazy!

I got treated to a day off! I figured I may as well sleep in. Oh, that’s the way it always begins. This one day, and the beginning of the end. I’ll tell you what, figure a way to make it up, okay? There’s only one way for you to do that. You’re the only man I know who can swim to work. You might as well be the only one who swims back home.

He runs off into the water, because the big joke is that he swims to work. Like, isn’t he just at work? Like, doesn’t he live at, like I know. He lives on the beach. Which, by the way, I’m so f ing jealous. Like, I would kill to have his little house. Like, it’s a little house, but it’s right on the beach. That would probably sell for 15, 000, 000 today.

You’re right. But I love it. But he, she’s like, Oh, you’re swimming to work again, huh? And he’s like, yep. And he swims out and then she’s just walking her dog on the beach and then it’s like her, it’s like she steps in a hole. That’s what it looks like. It looks like she steps into a hole and she’s like, Oh no, I’ve stepped into a hole, but then she starts to panic and screaming for help.

And he hears her. I don’t really understand why he can’t see her. She he’s in the water. She’s on the beach. There’s nobody else around apparently. 

Todd: Well, he’s way out in the water. He’s swimming to work. I sort of feel like maybe he didn’t even hear her. Although. He says he did. 

Craig: Yeah. He tells the other cops.

He’s like, I heard her, but he couldn’t see her. Anyway, she gets sucked down into the ground. Kind of Tremors style, just not as exciting. Because it just 

Todd: doesn’t really show it. 

Craig: This monster basically manifests itself through the entirety of the movie until the last seven minutes as holes. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: This is a scary movie about holes.

In the sand. That’s true. That sucked you in and, and who knows what happens after that. You just disappear and nobody knows where you are. Unless they maybe find like, an eyeball. 

Todd: There was an eyeball, yeah. I don’t get 

Craig: it. I don’t 

Todd: understand what’s happening. You know, it’s not very exciting either. That’s the problem.

Like, eat. Alright, getting sucked into the sand, like Tremors. Tremors was an exciting movie. I thought that was a terrifying notion that you could just like get sucked into the ground by some creature, but in this, it’s like they’re so low budget that there’s a shot of a woman who steps in a hole and then they cut to her screaming face and then they’ve obviously like Cut to another shot where they have put her in a hole and buried the sand around her so that she can scream some more and then, I don’t know, cut to her dog and then cut back to her and now her head’s in it, you know, it’s just no 

Craig: action.

No. I, I think that Spielberg got away with it because of the shark POV. Yes, yes, that built suspense. Like honest to God in Jaws in the first Jaws, you barely, you never see that shark really until the end. And here you don’t see the monster until the end, but Jaws works. The, the, the music. works. They try to copy that here, but it doesn’t work.

No, but I think it’s a lot. It’s the POV shots. It’s seeing the victim from a distance and getting closer and closer and seeing where and how they are vulnerable. 

Todd: And also like there’s thrashing and they get yanked. You know, I mean, there’s Right. In water you can do a lot more, it can seem real violent even though they’re really just splashing around and stuff.

Whereas here, oh my god, the sand, now it’s up to my head. Yeah. Then they go under, and nobody’s ever around. Almost never is anybody around when these people get sucked in. Just when that one girl gets bit. Otherwise, it’s just perfect timing that this creature gets people when they’re like the only frickin person on the beach within earshot of anyone else.

Craig: Right. Except for the crazy homeless lady who watches multiple people get sucked into the beach and just doesn’t say anything. 

Todd: She doesn’t care. I thought, I thought there’d be some twist, like she’s in collusion with this monster or 

Craig: something like that. Like she’s its mother. She’s just crazy. She just likes to watch people get sucked into the beach.

Honestly, God, like, I don’t know what to say about it, because then it’s just like, uh, kind of, I guess, a mystery. The girl that is the love interest, Harry’s love interest, is the old lady’s daughter. And so when Harry is telling the other cops, he’s like, I don’t know, she was there, and then she wasn’t. And they’re like, well, did you know her?

He’s like, yeah, I’ve known her for a long time. In fact, at one point, I was engaged to her daughter. What? Who cares? Like, and then Catherine shows up, and this was such a funny dynamic to me, because Catherine, she shows up, and they’ve got this history, and so like, there’s kind of this immediate thing between them.

But he’s banging a stewardess. Like, he has like a stewardess girlfriend. Uh, yeah. And, and I Maybe they weren’t like boyfriend girlfriend, but they were in a sexual relationship because we see them bang. Well, there was a scene. That scene was kind of hot. No, and wait! I have in my What Well, first of all, okay, so Catherine shows up.

She says hi to Harry. They have kind of chemistry or whatever, and then the Catherine runs into the homeless lady who watched her mother die. Mother tell you who the police about. Your mother, nothing. They don’t know anything. Not yet. They’re lying. Don’t be stupid, girl. Your mother was raped and murdered.

That’s not true. It’s true. It happens every day. They lie about it to keep their job over. They’re not fooling me. Look, look, look. That’s where she is caught up in very deep. So. 

Todd: What? Yeah, that woman. What the 

Craig: hell? That certainly didn’t happen. But then, there’s a scene with Marie, and I wish So Marie apparently is like, a Swedish flight attendant?

Who is just banging Harry when she’s in town, I think. How did you, 

Todd: how did you catch the flight attendant thing? I just saw this blonde woman show up and I had no explanation as to who she was or where she was. 

Craig: What’s the other guy’s name? There’s another guy’s name, Hoagy. Hoagy? Hoagy. Which I thought was hilarious because that was, um, a guy in Jaws 4.

Michael Caine’s character in Jaws 4. Oh, that’s right. But anyway, Hoagy, who is Harry’s friend, at one point answers the phone. And says something really weird and inappropriate but then hands it to Harry and it’s like, it’s the stewardess. And it’s, and it’s, and it’s Marie. And they plan on having a date later but she gets He’s sucked into a sandal, so he doesn’t go.

So he goes and bangs Catherine instead. But there was a conversation where they talked about Harry having a huge clock, and like, they like, they both side eyed each other and were like, yeah, I love your clock. It was so funny to me. What was 

Todd: that? She’s like, did you get your clock fixed? I don’t 

Craig: know, but it was a really, really funny dick joke.

And, um, I enjoyed it. And that’s the only line I remember from the movie. Because, though it is only 85 minutes long, It took away five years of my life. Like, it is the longest, most boring movie. And worse yet, we had been talking back and forth via text and email about what we were gonna do, but I had forgotten.

And I, so I scrolled back through our text and I, and I figured out that we were doing this movie. And so I, I looked up where you could watch it. And it was only available on one free streaming service that I had never used before. So I, you know, I signed, I signed up for this streaming service and I was watching it, but there were a minute and a half of commercials every like seven minutes.

No way. Yes. And so not only did I have to watch the whole movie, but like at least a half an hour worth of 

Todd: commercials. So apparently you just overlooked that YouTube link I sent you like a week 

Craig: ago. I know. And then, then after I had finished watching it, I was looking back and I, you’re like, it’s on YouTube.

I sent you a link. I was like, God damn it. 

Todd: Oh man. I’m sorry you had to do that. I don’t know. It wasn’t any more fun without the commerc Honestly, the commercials were probably more interesting than the movie. I I thought the movie was hard to see. You know, that scene that you said, uh, between him and the stewardess was hot.

I agree, kind of. Except, it was more like T’s and A, than T and A. Because I could barely see what was going on, cause the scene was so dark. Did you get that in your transfer, or was it just the YouTube one that I saw? 

Craig: Uh, I feel like I remember seeing boobs, um, but that’s not something that’s particularly memorable for me, so I could just be kind of making that up.

I do feel like I remember seeing the outline of his butt. No. I mean, I mean it was that. Kind of made for TV thing where it’s like we’ll show you Silhouettes that right suggest nudity without any actual. Yeah, nothing extreme I don’t know. I think I’m just like grasping for straws here because there’s there’s not much To talk about.

I mean, so they bang and then the dog’s head gets bit off . 

Todd: Yeah, they’re intercut with a, a woman out looking for a dog. And it’s Catherine 

Craig: that’s, it’s her, her mom. Remember her mom? 

Todd: I couldn’t even see, had 

Craig: that dog when she got sucked into the sand and now the dog is out like looking for its owner, I guess, and like pawing at the sand.

And when she goes out there. It looks like the dog’s just laying down, but she goes to, like, pet it, and it has no head. 

Todd: Yes, and that’s when, now everybody at the police station, the police detective, Polly’s character, I keep calling him Polly, Burt Young’s character, Royko, a black guy who’s like the d one of the detectives, there’s a white guy who’s kind of a detective, and then there’s I guess the police chief is John Saxon.

They all kind of come and go and are in different groups. And it 

Craig: doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. They’re just cops. Like, yeah, the cops. are on it. And, uh, John Saxon, again, like I say, famous people pop up in this, and they don’t, he’s not like an A list celebrity or whatever, but I certainly recognize him from the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise.

He was Heather Langenkamp’s dad. 

Todd: Um, and some of the Italian movies that we’ve done, he’s been in. He’s done a 

Craig: bunch. Yeah, he’s done a lot of genre movies. Uh, and I like him, but he’s just, uh, Black Christmas? Oof. I don’t want to say that he doesn’t have any range, I don’t know, I believe that he actually might.

But, it seems like he’s always cast in the same role. Some cop. He could, some cop. Like, he could be playing Nancy’s dad from Nightmare on Elm Street in this movie. Like, they moved and now he works here. It’s the same character. 

Todd: Right. He’s under the sand. Oh shit. And he’s 

Craig: very serious. And he wants to get to the bottom of it, and so, like, they’re, like, digging with, what do you call those, uh, like, uh, like, excavators, like, yeah, like, backhoes, on the beach, and, um, the kids, they’re, some reporter, Interviews these kids on the beach and they’re like, aren’t you scared?

And they’re like, oh, I don’t know. Maybe So dumb, but then they’re like blood beach, man Like they’re calling this blood beach and they’re saying that there’s a creature on blood beach, but nobody really cares 

Todd: No, the beach is chock full of people. Well, he does call them out on that But you know, but they are 

Craig: like this is it’s such a This is one of a whole gaggle of movies that tried to capitalize on Jaws.

Yeah, this movie is Jaws, it’s just that the shark is in the sand and not in the water and, and just like in Jaws, the cops are kind of trying to keep it hush hush, but people have been getting attacked by sharks and it doesn’t matter, like the beach is still right. Thriving like people are out 

Todd: there. You talk about that The tagline on the poster is a takeoff on the jaws thing So dumb, just what you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

You can’t get to it 

Craig: You and I could brainstorm a better tagline in five minutes. That was terrible. But what did I get it? I get it. No, I get it. Like they’re capitalizing on it and it makes sense. I get it, 

Todd: but it’s just not, there’s no suspense. No. 

Craig: And like, even you, you don’t even care when things happen.

So Hoagie, who I’ve already mentioned is the night Harbor guard and he and his girlfriend have a musical number. Two of them. Oh, yeah. 

Todd: In the movie. At a bar or something. 

Craig: Yeah. Hokey’s girlfriend leaves him and goes walking on the beach because I think she sees an injured bird or something. So dumb. And then she legit gets attacked by 

Todd: A rapist, basically.

A rapist. Right. Who tries to tear his shirt off. And so that’s our TNA in the movie, by the way. I 

Craig: think that the implication is that this rapist has his dick. Yeah. Like, he’s ready for some rapin and he’s got his dick out, but she fights him a little bit, and then he falls down face first on the ground, and I guess because his dick was already out, the monster just bites it clean off.

Well, 

Todd: this is so poorly staged, this thing, because he’s been wrestling with her on the ground, he tears her shirt, she starts to get away, but she doesn’t, she just kinda scampers up about six feet ahead of him, and then turns around and pauses for a while, while he, like, Like a cartoon character leering at her is slowly crawling towards her in the sand.

I mean, this girl just needs to stand up and walk 

Craig: away. Run! Yeah. It’s kind of a fat guy. He can’t chase you. It’s just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Todd: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah When the cops are back together again, sittin on the beach, a couple of kids run by and toss something at Royko.

And say, We found his wiener! 

Craig: Was that supposed to be real? Did they really toss that 

Todd: guy’s dick to the cop? I have no idea. Because he reacted like they did. Yeah, 

Craig: like he re like, at first I thought that, oh, it’s just kids playing a joke, like they threw him a hot dog or something, but then he acted like it was a cock, like he was 

Todd: disgusted by it.

It was so funny. And then, and then after this, we get Dr. Dimitri again, who we saw earlier, who gave some opinion about the dog, and this guy. Oh my god, his style of um, of acting is really interesting. It’s lots of long pauses to make himself sound 

Craig: smart. Did he have an accent? Because he reminded me of like in a spoof where you would have like, like a silly German scientist who would explain things 

Todd: to you.

It was like so over the top weird that I thought it was supposed to be a joke. It could be a creature who perhaps came up from the sea. And now, he’s living in moist places. 

Craig: That was terrible! Oh my god! It is an evolution. Like, like, it’s an evolving He knows 

Todd: nothing. No, he’s an idiot. He has no evidence to go on.

All they know is that some people are getting bit by something in the ground. And this guy comes up with all these crazy explanations. It was right after this. 

Craig: I have no context for it. But I just have in my notes, someone says Useless as Whiskers on a Sausage. What does that mean? What? Who wrote 

Todd: that?

John Saxon said it, I thought it was great. 

Craig: Somebody wrote that line, and they put it in the movie. Useless as whiskers on a sausage. I don’t even know what he’s talking about. No idea. But that was the most outstanding part. Like, that’s the part of this, that’s what I will 

Todd: take away. Jeffrey Blum is the writer director of this movie.

And, um, he wrote the screenplay for Flowers in the Attic. Yes! And directed it! That movie was pretty good, wasn’t 

Craig: it? I thought No. It’s really not, but I know, I know why you say that because I was very fond of that movie. As well as a child you and I have talked about doing it on the show and I really think that we should sometime Because it’s really not a horror movie, but I feel like vc andrews was such a part of my adolescence Those were the smut novels that I read And and I read all I read that whole series except for the last one, which was a prequel about the grandma I didn’t care about that, but I read that whole series and they’re so smutty.

They are the smuttiest Well, probably not. There’s probably smuttier, but they’re the smuttiest stuff that I’ve ever read and I loved them. Like, you know, I’m like 13 years old reading about like Torrid sex and oh man, and I really liked that movie in this movie. I don’t know Honestly, if we ever do that movie if we ever watch it again The way that it’s shot is pretty pedestrian.

It’s, it’s, it’s kind of like this. It feels very much like a TV movie. I just think that that, that story is compelling. Yeah. Everybody knows, everybody knows how much I love Christy Swanson. But she was good in that movie. I, I really liked her. Um, and it was, it was A compelling story. We’re gonna have to get around to it.

Much more compelling than this dumb movie. Oh, yeah. And this dumb movie, this dumb movie, where Harry is making Well, first of all, he’s talking to Catherine in a scene where the boom mic is clearly evident in the top of the frame. That’s, come on you guys, reframe the shot, do something. But then, he’s cooking dinner.

Tell me that I saw this wrong. He has an enormous At least three or four foot long loaf of bread. And he pulls it out of the plastic bag, rips the end off of it, and then, if I’m not mistaken, takes a celery stick, shoves it into the bread, and then takes a bite of it. Did that really happen? I’m pretty 

Todd: sure it happened, yeah.

That was, uh Oh my god, this dinner scene. What 

Craig: the fuck? Who does that? That is business. That is like, I’m an actor and I don’t have anything else to do. And I’m gonna shove this celery stick into this bread and take a bite of it. It was insane. 

Todd: Everything about this. The movie is You know, Blood Beach, we’ve been talking about this monster, but really there’s very little of this monster or these monster incidents in the movie.

And when they do happen, they happen to people who we just met about a minute before they get sucked into the scene. Except for this next one. Except for the next one, but my point is we have to endure What is essentially two parallel stories going on here. This investigation, which is not an investigation.

No. Because there’s nothing to investigate. They dig them the sand, they find an eyeball. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. No, not yet. That’s 

Todd: this girl. Yeah. They’ll find, yeah, they’ll find an eyeball in a minute. We’ll get to that. And that’s it. But like, what else are they gonna do? It’s not like, they’ve closed the beach. That’s as much as they can do.

An eyeball 

Craig: and a wiener. These are the things that they find. And then at some point Oh God. Okay. All right. So this Marie, the girl, it, it was only because I think that I was watching this for the podcast that I would even know this because we barely met Marie in the beginning. And then she shows up again.

She’s supposed to be meeting Harry for dinner, but her hat blows off onto the beach. 

Todd: Her bandit starts to get trapped. 

Craig: And this, it was so funny to me because it was clearly somebody was on the other side of the camera with a fishing pole. 

Todd: Pulling that hat along, there was no wind. No, and 

Craig: it did not look like it was being blown at all.

It looked like it was being dragged. So she chases it and then she gets sucked in now. Hold up. Okay. So, because I watched this on a streaming service and when the title came up, it said blood beach extended. And uncut. Did yours say that too? 

Todd: Not sure. It said something in German. That’s what mine said. 

Craig: What I wonder, because I read that they had to cut some of the attack footage for the rating.

I don’t even know what it’s rated. No way. Um, but in this scene, she is fully dressed and then she gets pulled down under the sand and there is a three second scene of her writhing around in what appears to be an underground room? 

Todd: What? No, I didn’t see this. Fully 

Craig: nude! What? Yes, covered in blood and guck and fully nude, writhing around for like three seconds and there’s like one shot.

of the monster, so you can kind of see that it’s kind of plant like in nature. You didn’t see that? You would remember it if you had seen it. I think that must have been something that was cut and that was put back in. It doesn’t make any sense in the moment, because she gets pulled down through the sand, fully clothed, nothing wrong with her, then immediately, fully nude, covered in blood and gook, writhing around, and then cut to the next scene.

Now, ultimately, we find out that whatever this is, is just keeping people somewhere. I’m mad about it. Because it doesn’t make any sense. Um, because Marie doesn’t show up for dinner, Harry goes over to Catherine’s house and they have a lot of Chemistry, I don’t know, whatever. But then the next day, he comes out in his cute little shorts, and he finds Marie’s car and her hat, and that’s when they, they like, dig and they find her eyeball, and Polly, Polly’s like, Hey, uh, what color eyes did your girl have?

I mean

Todd: Oh no! Well, when Paulie isn’t talking about how they won’t take this kind of shit in Chicago, uh, he’s making dumb quips like this. This is what I was trying to say is, so you’ve got this thread, you’ve got this thread with the detectives that is silly, because there’s nothing really they can do and it’s not going anywhere, but there sure is a lot of consternation.

There’s even meeting with the mayor, well, the council. Person or whatever who’s been withholding money from the police department and is bitching at them about how they’re spending all this money to Investigate and nothing’s happening. So she’s gonna cut their money and then because somebody famous crawls.

Oh god. That’s what happened Somebody crawls out of the sewer. 

Craig: Yeah, a guy, a guy with a metal detector on the beach gets sucked down. And his wife, like, talks to the police and stuff. Young’s character. 

Todd: And that was such a bizarre scene. Again, I think they were trying to make it funny? But it went on really long.

Craig: Okay. How about shoes? We’ll start from the ground up. Was he wearing shoes? Oh, yes. Um. He was wearing his white mesh slip on casuals with the you know the kind that have the rope so. Oh. I know the kind. Brown socks. The nylon executive type. Pardon me, ma’am. I’m not familiar with those socks. I’m sorry, they’re the, um, they’re the kind that come up fairly high so that if you’re, uh, if you’re wearing a suit, you should have it across your legs.

Well, then your, your leg won’t be showing. Okay, go on. Uh, blue and red. Madress. Bermudas. Bleeding Madras. They were kind of old, but you know, they were his favorite pair. They were still in good condition, but you know how with Madras, after a few washings, you know, colors kind of start to fade together. That happens to me.

Uh, any jewelry? 

Todd: She spends like ten minutes describing his clothing in detail, and he’s like amused by it. At 

Craig: some point Harry like goes looking around the pier and he finds like an underground lair. Yeah. But he doesn’t find the creature and so like he kind of walks away from it. But I think that we’re to believe that the creature is down there, he just didn’t find it.

And then the metal detector guy gets attacked and they talk about how there have been lots of sightings. of a monster, but they’re all different descriptions. And then Pauly eats a cheeseburger. Like, like that was a whole scene. Like a whole scene of him eating a cheeseburger. It’s true. And then the metal detector guy crawls out from a manhole.

That was him? Yes, that was the metal detector guy. He crawls out from a manhole and he’s all covered in gook and stuff. And then, like, the cops are talking to the press, and Pauly says to the press, in a very callous way, that he has significant Not he, not Pauly, the manhole guy. He says, Yeah, the doctors, uh, they don’t know when he’ll be able to tell us anything because, uh, he’s got significant brain damage And, uh, his tongue’s ripped out.

What?! 

Todd: Like a, like a vegetable soup up there. 

Craig: What?! That’s exactly it, like, what do you mean braindead? Like a, like a vegetable soup. What? What is happening? Why? Why is something, why is some creature pulling people down into the ground to excise specific body parts? Body 

Todd: parts! That’s true, right? Because Spoiler alert, we get to their la Oh, it’s not a spoiler.

Is it wet? Oh, Bag Lady. Who discovers Hoagy Hoagy! 

Craig: Oh my god. Hoagy gives a monologue. This was hilarious to me! So funny! For some reason, Hoagy, who is this weird guy with a who just, he’s the night watchman for the harbor or whatever, but anytime he shows up, it’s for a musical night. He sings two songs in this movie, but then in this part, it’s during the day and he chases for reasons I don’t understand.

I guess the beach is closed. Yeah. Yeah. The, the bag lady, the homeless lady is on the beach and he follows her. And then he gives a long monologue. He’s like, kind of sad away. Things have changed. I’m a, you know, you and me can still remember when all this was wide open down here, no fences, no trash, no whiskey bottles.

Remember that

wasn’t too long ago. I used to come down here all the time, right here under the pier, just to sit watch, listen. Timbers and then he gets pulled under the sands by whatever this creature is. And the homeless lady just watches. This is like the third person she’s just stood by and watched to get sucked into the sand.

Oh my God. And then Harry talks to the, the black cop, his name. I looked up his name on IMDb. It’s like. Piantadosa. Uh, Lieutenant Piantadosa. But they all just call him Piano. What? Like, like, they can’t pronounce his name? So they just call him Piano? Okay, whatever. But, but Harry’s like, Oh yeah, there was this like, uh, basement where we used to play when we were kids.

Todd: What it’s like in an old building, I guess there used to be a Merry-go-round. You know, it’s one of these like peer side attraction buildings or whatever that he just gets the urge to go and explore as you had said earlier. 

Craig: But isn’t it the Yeah, it’s the same place that he looked at before. Yeah, and, 

Todd: and I couldn’t understand why he was interested in, I mean, obviously.

They had this, um, he and Kat were talking and had this really, really dumb back and forth conversation. 

Craig: It’s got to have a place to go back to. Almost every living thing does, right? Every living thing, but then our imagination, yeah. You’ve got to be grounded to something. For reality and imagination.

There haven’t been any patterns, though, have there? Nothing that anybody’s been able to figure out. Hit and run. Here, there, anywhere. Not anywhere. Never above the ground.

No, not above the ground. So, if you’re right, if there is a place where this, this lives, then chances 

Todd: are it’s below sea level. And so then, I think, I think he’s sort of hunting for places underground. He finds a cellar in that place and he goes under, but it’s super dark. She’s also 

Craig: there. They’re there secretly.

Well, 

Todd: she comes later. This was when he first came in and discovered it. He’s walking through there and he finds something. But we don’t see it. It’s like a crack in the wall. Yeah light is coming 

Craig: through but he doesn’t even like Investigate it like no, we see it. Yeah, we see this crack in the wall with something like glowing behind it Oh and it 

Todd: zooms in on the crack and stuff, like it’s really significant.

I’m waiting for something to happen or for a shadow to dance across it or something. 

Craig: Nothing. Nothing happens. But eventually they end up going back down there and independent of one another, but at the same time, like Catherine goes down there. I don’t even remember why she’s 

Todd: there. She just stares. She’s walking along the beach.

She looks over at it and just kind of walks up to the chain link fence and kind of stares at it. Wistfully, like it was a place she used to go to, and was like, Huh, maybe I’ll go 

Craig: explore that. And then she’s in there, and then Harry and Piano are there at the same time. And then she discovers her mother’s severed head!

And then a whole shelf of bodies and body parts. 

Todd: Fall on her now. Come on. What is happening, Todd? I don’t understand. I have no idea 

Craig: I like apparently this creature is not eating these people It’s just a serial killer and it’s keeping all of their bodies It doesn’t make any sense taking 

Todd: pieces of them apart and stashing them in this shelf under the ground 

Craig: And then that, they’re all down there, and that dumbass doctor is like, Oh, look at this indentation on the floor.

This is where it slept, and it will be back. 

Todd: Mmm, so then, uh, John Saxon’s character is like, What are we gonna do? Uh, we’re gonna come in here, I want 15 different cameras on this thing, and as soon as it surfaces, Uh, I want to be able to press a button and blow it up, so get demolition down here and wire this thing up.

And so, now, we’re going into some surveillance room, where they have, you know, eight monitors up, and everybody is staring at a black blob on the screen. I couldn’t tell what this was, what they were looking at. They were supposed 

Craig: to be like, infrared cameras or something. Just set up regular cameras, like, wha Why does it have to be infrared?

I don’t know, whatever. But they also, they talk about how they have found 16 bodies. 16! And, uh, that’s, that’s news to me. And then that dumb, that dumb doctor talks to Pauly and is like, Uh, I don’t know what this creature is, but uh, maybe Maybe it has regenerative properties. Uh, if, if we blow it up and it is in a million pieces, then what happens to those million pieces?

Jesus, come on. This is so f ing stupid. And they only say that so that then they’re waiting for it to come back. And it does. And the creature arrives. And screams? 

Todd: The creature, which to me, looks like a papier mâché flower. 

Craig: Yeah, I read somewhere that it looks like a Venus flytrap. No, it doesn’t. Like, it’s just a big, gaping maw.

It does look like a plant. Like, that’s also what’s weird. Is it a plant? I don’t know what it 

Todd: is. It looks like a giant flower. Just a bunch of petals. Yeah, with 

Craig: like a, like a uvula, or like a dick in the middle. But 

Todd: it doesn’t really move, it look kinda like No! If it’s around a little bit, the lights flash across it, and it screams, and It just appears.

It’s not like it emerges and opens up or starts snapping at people. No! It’s just there. We 

Craig: see it for a mere seconds until Pauly sneaks outside and triggers a series of bombs with his foot? What? Is there’s a foot trigger for the 

Todd: series? What was the deal when the somebody was saying, no, stop him. 

Craig: There was, that was the doctor.

I think that the doctor is legit scared that if they blow it up, then it’s going to be in a million pieces and then it will regenerate, which I believe we’re led to think is true. Because when it explodes, it turns into a million. Tiny, sparkly 

Todd: particles. Oh, now I understand what that glitter going across the screen was.

I think that’s a I had no idea I just thought that was a creative, like, uh, transition thing where they were trying to be stylish. 

Craig: No, I think that was supposed to be like the parts of the thing that blew up and are now spreading all over because the next thing we see is just a day at the beach and everybody’s there and hanging out, but Next to everybody, all these little holes start popping up.

Even 

Todd: that was humorous because this sequence goes on forever. It’s like the horror movie that has the zinger at the end. Yeah. Right? Ah, the monster’s still there, except this movie has seven zingers. One right after the other. Oh, you see a hole appear next to somebody. Now it pans next to somebody else and it pans around very, very slowly and suddenly a hole appears and then it happens again.

And I was like, oh my God, come on. Do we really? Are they just extending this for time? And eventually the credits go? Yeah, no, I 

Craig: think it was, it was supposed to be clever. You know, they exacerbated their problem now. There are tons of these, whatever the fuck they are. God, this movie was like, I feel like us talking about it.

I hope so, listeners, that us talking about it was way more interesting than watching it. Don’t watch this. It’s bad. 

Todd: No, it’s bad. It’s boring. It commits the worst sin of just being boring. There’s just a police procedural. And this little drama between these two people, who are clearly hot for each other anyway, that you don’t care about their relationship, or what happens to them.

They’re not interesting. Right. 

Craig: That’s not to say that anybody in particular, especially the actors, it’s not to say that anybody did a particularly bad job. Oh no, it’s just the writing. They were fine. It was just a Boring movie. The story is boring and it’s so low budget. Like the concept is okay. Like sure.

Like a sand shark kind of, and that’s fine. Great. I’m down, but it’s boring. Every once in a while, somebody gets sucked into the sand. You don’t see anything. 

Todd: It’s terrible. It’s chock full of just mind bogglingly filler scenes. Like. My favorite one. My favorite one was toward the end when the Captain and the, what, Piano, I guess, are standing and eating hot dogs.

They’re waiting for the monster or something like that. You know something, 

Craig: Piano? What’s that, Captain? No men don’t believe in monsters. No, sir. They don’t. I remember that scene. He’s just standing against a wall eating a hot dog. 

Todd: What? 

Craig: Oh boy. We already said there was a whole other scene where What’s His Name was just eating a cheeseburger and talking about it.

Like, here’s a scene. I’m gonna eat this cheeseburger and talk about it. Like, 

Todd: oh my god. God bless Burt Young. At least he got a Pretty slick payday from this, I imagine, cause he’s in it so much. He’s got enough lines and he can chew the scenery being his guy. And he’s, he’s 

Craig: basically a cameo. Like he doesn’t, the, I said in the beginning, he doesn’t contribute to the plot.

Yeah. He steps on the trigger for the bomb at the ends and that’s significant to the plot, but that’s it. That’s, he could just, that whole character could just not even exist and it wouldn’t make any difference. That. That could almost be said of any of these people. And I didn’t, I didn’t care. Like, Harry was cute to look at in those little shorts, but I couldn’t care less about him and Catherine.

Get Catherine the f out of here. Who cares? Nobody cares 

Todd: about her. Her 

Craig: part has, like, Oh, she said about her mom, and then she, her mom’s head falls off. I don’t care. Nobody cares. Oh my god. It’s a bad movie. Well, 

Todd: we’re not alone. The movie did not do well when it came out. It was You’re kidding. It was mostly critically panned.

I think it got like a 17 or 13 percent on the Rotten Tomatoes score right now. People claim it has a cult following. Like you said, I’m sure that when you were four years old and you saw this, like, uh, If you you happened to if you if you were awake, if you could manage to stay awake through all this other bullshit, you would see somebody get sucked under the sand and think that’s scary.

That’s it. I mean, there’s nothing There’s nothing interesting about this movie. I was bored watching it. Me too. I was almost so bored I was angry. 

Craig: Oh, I was barely paying attention. Like, I was looking at the internet and like, yeah, I’m not missing anything. Oh, man. Well. But, but, but Burt Young. Who? Burt Young!

Tribute to you, sir. I, and, and, you know, in all seriousness, I have Very much enjoy, you know, I haven’t seen him in a lot, but I grew up with those Rocky movies, and I liked them. Um, They’re of varying quality, the sequels, but I enjoyed them all, uh, and, and honestly, like, Sylvester Stallone seems, like, you look at him, you hear him talk, he seems like a big dummy, and he’s not.

He’s a really smart guy, and he’s a good writer, and those, you know, he wrote, That first movie oh, yeah, and and started it and I don’t remember I know that he wrote at least a couple of the other ones I know he wrote three and I liked I liked them all. Even the silly ones, like where he fights the Russian and he has a robot and stuff.

Like, I still enjoyed it, and I really enjoyed Burt Young in those movies. He was an asshole. He played an asshole. But Like the asshole who’s your family and you also love and you because he He’s a good guy. Yeah, he’s a good guy. He’s just kind of a dick. Yeah But I did like him in those movies Amityville 2 was a crazy crazy movie and he was he’ll watch that he was he was great.

He was great in it He was so like me angry and scary like from the beginning like even before the house started like having an effect on him, like, as soon as they showed up, he’s crazy. Yeah, it was fun to watch. So tribute to him, you know, in all. Uh, props to Burt Young. This is a shitty movie. Don’t watch it.

But, um, watch Amityville 2 or the Rocky movies cause, uh, he’s a fun guy to watch. 

Todd: Couldn’t have said it better myself. Well, thank you again listeners for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share with a friend. You can look us up online. Just google Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast, find our website, find all of our social media, leave us a message, let us know.

what you would like us to cover in the future. And also check out our Patreon page at patreon.com/ChainsawPodcast and consider throwing a few bucks our way each month. That will get you access to our unedited episodes as well as a lot of other goodies. We’re putting minisos up there, we’re putting reviews up there, we have a lot of dialogue back and forth.

And of course, you get to help shape the future of the podcast by choosing which requests we do. And we do have a month coming up, a theme month plan that was chosen by our patrons. It’s gonna be all Child’s {lay, so it’s only going up from here. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We loved this slow-burn Netflix original film – produced by the Obamas, of all people – about an unspecified disruption to life as we know it. A star-studded cast including Ethan Hawke, Julia Roberts, and two-time Academy Award-winner Mahershala Ali ushers in the potential apocalypse as a mysterious event throws off a family’s weekend getaway in upstate New York.

And as if that weren’t enough, we were joined by a special guest, Craig’s sister, Kristin, to discuss the rampant symbolism that director Sam Esmail managed to cram into this 140 minute nail-biter.

In fact, there was so much to unpack here that we continued the discussion in a freakin’ 40-minute minisode, exclusively for our Patrons. You can catch a sneak-peek of THAT by clicking here. 2024 is off to a rollicking start, eh?

Leave The World Behind (2023)

Episode 376, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig: I’m Craig. 

Todd: Well, it is still the new year, this is our second episode of the new year, and we just In fact, I think this one just came out, what, weeks ago? Something like that? This is a new movie on Netflix that a lot of people have been talking about.

It’s called Leave the World Behind. It’s directed by Sam Esmail. We were just talking before the recording about how it was, for some reason, impossible for us. To remember the title of this movie. We are joined today, once again, by Craig’s sister, Kristen. Say hello to the people, Kristen. Hey, it’s good to be back.

Whose idea was this? 

Craig: Well, I guess it was kind of Kristen’s. It’s just funny that you said people are talking about it because Kristen has been trying to get me to watch this movie for a week. She’s like, have you watched it yet? Have you watched it yet? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I want to talk about it. And, uh, I said, well, I mean, it sounds interesting.

She’s like, you could do. The podcast. You could do it for the podcast. Oh, I was like, well, is is it horror? And, and I said, 

Kristen: I don’t know. . 

Craig: kind of. So she like, real quick, I md beat it. And indeed it is marked as, uh, what is it? It’s not just horror. 

Kristen: It’s like it’s said horror drama, horror drama, horror, 

Todd: horror, drama.

That’s right, uh, Wikipedia calls it an American Apocalyptic Psychological Thriller film. I suppose. I think it qualifies. We’ve done other movies like this before, so. I 

Craig: think it definitely qualifies, if for no other reason, I was genuinely, like, on the edge of my seat with anxiety, for, uh, A large part of this movie, 

Todd: right?

Waiting for something to happen. I 

Craig: was more affected in that way by this movie than most of the traditional horror movies that we’ve. Watched and talked about so I, I definitely think it counts. I never thought we’d see the day where we were reviewing a Julia Roberts movie. 

Todd: Man, if she go, if she passes, we’ve already used up the potential horror movie that we’ve I 

Craig: think she’s good.

I think. Our expiration date comes far before hers. I’m 

Todd: not wishing, I’m not wishing any doom on Julia Roberts, but Julia Roberts, this is our tribute episode to you. Yeah, in advance. Oh man, I 

Craig: don’t know about you, Todd, but I feel pretty safe in saying that Kristen and I are both Big Julia Roberts fans. Big.

Huge. 

Todd: Since when? Since when? 

Craig: Oh, since we were little tiny kids watching a movie about prostitutes. 

Todd: Which we all saw when we were kids, and now our parents are appalled. Oh my god, 

Craig: it was the most beautiful fairy tale of all. 

Todd: Gets a lot of criticism nowadays actually, doesn’t it? Uh, doesn’t 

Craig: bologna, not for you guys.

No, fantastic movie. I love Julia Roberts. I think she’s a very talented actress. Uh, and I think that she puts that on display here, even though she’s kind of a bitch, but like 

Kristen: a huge bitch. That’s a problem. I had right from the beginning. I was like, Oh, Julia, I don’t like you. 

Craig: Well, the movie starts, the movie opens in there in all blue.

Monica’s apartment in French, New York. Yeah. . And she’s just like, okay. So she’s married to Ethan Hawk. I, I, I won’t remember what their real names are, but 

Kristen: yeah. Okay. I wrote them young because I had already watched the whole movie and had no idea what anyone’s names were. Ah, but Ethan Hawk is Clay and she is Amanda.

Todd: Yeah. Are those names ever even uttered? I’m not sure. 

Craig: Yeah, I’m sure they, they are. ’cause they introduced themselves to a couple of people. Oh, that’s right. One of the things that I love about this movie and I didn’t take any notes This is the first time ever in the history of the podcast. I didn’t take any notes But we talked last week about the trials and tribulations of taking notes And I decided I was just gonna sit and enjoy this movie and as it turns out it worked out because there’s not a gaggle of characters to keep up with 

Todd: nor a massively intricate plot or anything.

Craig: No No, it’s, it’s relatively simple. Tons of stuff happens and it’s long, it’s two and a half hours long, but I didn’t have any problem keeping up with it, but it opens up with Julia Roberts just standing in a window and Ethan Hawk wakes up and she’s like, Oh, um, I just decided that we’re going to go on vacation.

And he’s like, Oh, really? When? Today. And I’ve already got everything packed and I, uh, already got like an Airbnb by the beach and we’re going and he’s like, well, why? And she’s like, When I couldn’t fall back asleep this morning, I came over here to watch the sunrise and I saw all these people starting their day with such tenacity, such ferv all in an.

effort to make something of themselves, make something of our world. I felt so lucky to be 

Kristen: a part of 

Craig: that, but then I remembered what the world is actually like, and I came to a more accurate realization.

I hate 

Todd: people. 

Craig: That’s the opening of the movie. Yeah. So they’re going on vacation. 

Todd: It’s interesting because even in that opening when she says that line, there’s a zoom move. That really struck me. You don’t usually see zoom moves in modern movies. We’ve called them out on occasion. I don’t know what that means.

When instead of like dollying the camera in, you just like you’ve got your camcorder, you push the zoom button, you just turn the lens to kind of blow up the picture and get closer to that person. It’s definitely a different aesthetic. It looks different. You can kind of tell if you put the two together instead of things kind of moving by the camera as you’re passing by them or the The perspective changing, it just looks like you’re blowing up the image, in a way.

And, uh, that was a big technique that they used in the 70s. I think probably when, when they were trying to be edgy and do things new, and zoom lenses were kind of a thing. And now, you’d never see it in movies. Well, you rarely, obviously, see it in movies. You see it in this one. Uh, and so, you know, it’s a very stylistic choice.

And one thing I really liked about this movie is it was very stylistic. But not in a, go on. It’s hugely 

Kristen: stylistic, and that’s like, I watched it the first time, and That’s why I kept calling Craig like have you watched it yet? Have you watched it yet? I can’t figure this movie out. There was so much when I rewatched it the second time for this.

There’s so much symbolism I have nine pages just dealing with like symbolism and style in this movie But I couldn’t figure it out the zoom. I told Craig it’s kind of like With the music, and all the colors, and everything’s blue, and then this zoom in on her face, and then like this rap song with all this imagery over the opening credits, like, I can’t figure out what movie I’m 

Todd: watching.

Well, miss nine pages of notes, I think you should just take it over from here. Oh god. 

Kristen: It’s just, it’s just lists. So like, this is blue. That’s also blue. Their wall’s blue. Her clothes are blue. Everything is blue. 

Craig: And not just blue, but basically the same shade of blue. Like everything’s dark blue. And I have no idea why you talked about the zoom effect.

There’s that they do a lot of that and they do a lot of turning the camera to 90, 180, or 360 degrees. Like. There are so many, it made me dizzy too. There are so many shots that are, the camera is on its side and it’ll be interesting. Like Ethan Hawke will bring Julia Roberts, a glass of water in the morning in bed and in the frame, the glass of water looks like it’s turned on its side, but.

I don’t know, whatever. I don’t know, I know what 

Kristen: you’re talking about. Well, she’s laying on her side, and so it’s almost a little from her perspective, like, as she wakes up, and then it, like, will turn. And if you’re like me and Craig, and you can’t handle that kind of stuff, you feel really dizzy and disoriented, but I don’t think that’s a mistake at all.

And I looked up the blue, Craig, you said you didn’t know why. Well, I got on so many Reddit threads. 

Todd: Reddit’s gotta 

Kristen: figure it out. Yeah, so who knows, like, whatever. But a lot of people said, like, blue. And when you Google, like, significance of the color blue, it’s all, like, hope and peace and everything like that.

And then the blue kind of changes as you go through the movie. And so Everything is really really blue. Every single person who leaves the beach and we haven’t gotten to the beach yet, they’re all wearing blue. I was trying to look for people not wearing blue. Every single person was wearing blue. And so I think in the beginning of the movie they go on this vacation and they’re hopeful and you know, she’s, she’s really cynical, we know, and she says she hates people.

But I think they’re just sort of like, hey, we’re gonna reconnect. With each other sort of disconnect from the state of things and they’re kind of hopeful and just looking to relax and everything is low and that it changes as the movie progresses. 

Todd: Well, I like the contrast between these two characters. I think that.

Ethan Hawke is totally me. Ha 

Kristen: ha ha ha ha! Oh my god, he’s totally my husband, too. Ha ha 

Todd: ha ha ha! And Julia Roberts is, is, is totally big. I mean, like, uh, like, the very cautious person, uh, She seems a little more uptight, she seems, uh, Oh, I’m describing Julia Roberts character now. Probably there’s a reason she hates people, She just, like, it seems very critical, maybe, all 

Craig: the time.

She explains it later, and we may as well just explain it now. She, she says that, In her job, it’s her job to read people and then sell them a bunch of shit. They don’t need. And she says, when you really inspect people that, Oh my God, I’m totally jumping. This is way, way later, but I feel like it’s. It explains her character and I almost would have preferred to hear it earlier because I was just so irritated with like, stop being such a cunt.

Like, and, and there’s another, like, there’s another character who we’ll get to in a second who constantly is calling her out on it. And ultimately she, she’s like, yeah, I’m a bitch. Like I 

Todd: get it. She didn’t seem to mind actually being called out on it. 

Craig: Basically, it comes down to, it’s a little heavy handed when you get to know people that well, you come to find that people f ing suck.

Like, we’re, we’re all horrible. We only care about ourselves. We treat each other horribly. We, everything, we just leave destruction in our wake and we’re like, Oh, it’ll be fine. So what? Who cares? Like, God, I can’t believe I already jumped there. But I feel like that’s kind of. What the movie was telling us, but you don’t know that along the way.

I couldn’t figure out what kind of movie this was. I didn’t know anything about it going in, and that was good. And it also intrigued Alan. I’m like, I don’t know, it’s got Julia Roberts, it’s like kind of a thriller, I don’t know. So we watched it together. All throughout, at least the first half, I had suspicions of what it might be.

But there were times when I was like, is it going to be super? Is it supernatural? Is it going to be like a zombie movie? Is it, is it like aliens or aliens? Is it an epidemic? I couldn’t figure it out. And that was part of the suspense that kept me. 

Todd: It sort of had shades of The Happening, that M. Night Shyamalan movie.

Um, simply because it deals with this event that nobody knows how to deal with, and sort of the point of the movie is nobody knows how to deal with it. A lot of the films that are made about apocalyptic problems, it starts there. Okay, there’s a big apoca there’s some kind of disaster or something, and people are thrown into confusion.

And there’s one guy or one girl who, you know, takes control and takes charge, and the story revolves around that person and their struggles to survive. But, you know, I think the happening got a lot of flack just for being realistic. It’s almost essentially just a bunch of people stumbling around, not knowing what to do, and there’s your movie.

And, to be honest, I think that’s pretty reflective of how things would kind of be if something like this did happen, at least for a while, and at least for some of us. You know, and we see that contrast in the movie too, later, 

Craig: I think. Yeah, that’s a big part of it too, like, what would happen if some major event like this happened.

We’re skirting around. Well, no, I, I want to get to, okay, so they go to this house. This house that they’ve rented, which Is awesome. They intimate, at some point, is like, a little bit over 2, 000 a night or no, excuse for the whole weekend. A little over 2, 000 for the whole weekend. Uh, yeah, 

Kristen: right. I have stayed in many at Airbnb and they are much smaller than that.

And it’s still can cost 

Craig: almost exactly what I was going to say. This house is amazing. Like it is, it’s, it’s stunningly beautiful. It’s, it’s. Got like an atrium, and a pool, and a garden, and, uh, it’s very secluded even though they’re near a beach. And everything seems great. The wife goes into town and gets groceries and sees mysterious Kevin Bacon buying lots of bottled water.

Kristen: At the Blue Grocery 

Craig: Store. Oh, you’re right. Was it called the Blue Grocery 

Todd: Store? 

Kristen: No, no, everything was blue all the sides, but the town they were in was called Comfort Point. 

Todd: Yeah, that was 

Kristen: cute, right? Well, at first I thought they were leaving comfort, because it showed the street sign, and so I was like, oh, they’re leaving their comfort zone.

But they were going to 

Craig: comfort point. Yeah, they were. That’s 

Todd: funny. And you know, it’s like, I don’t know if they’re supposed to be rich. Obviously they’re well enough off to have a nice weekend like this, but they seem to have an apartment in the city, which is also expensive, so who knows. But they’re definitely They’re definitely not middle class middle class.

They’re upper middle class, if not higher than that, to be able to be out here in this thing. I feel like perhaps the house was still an upgrade even for them. Um, 

Kristen: Yeah, because at some point in the movie, at some point, And we’ll get there but she’s kind of made some digs at these other characters we’ll be introduced to and I noticed that the second time I watched it, they mentioned, like Ethan Hawke mentions the neighborhood they live in and he’s like, oh yeah, that’s a really affordable place to live.

Oh, that’s why I was gonna go there. So it’s kind of like he pushed back a little bit like, that’s true. Anyway, we don’t know who those characters are yet, but 

Craig: they show up in a second. But, but, okay. So everything’s going great. Like the kids are swimming in the pool. Um, she goes and gets groceries, their husband and wife, and they had a 15 minutes.

So they bang and everything’s great. And then they go to the beach. As soon as they get there, the daughter Rose. I don’t know this actress from anything else. Her name is Farrah McKenzie. She notices an, like an oil tanker on the coastline, um, or, or the horizon, excuse me. And, you know, whatever. They go about their beach day and, but she keeps looking at it and she keeps saying, like, I think it’s getting closer.

Uh, and then they’re all just You know, sunbathing, sleeping, reading, whatever. And Julia Roberts happens to turn around and it’s getting kind of alarmingly close and she wakes up her husband and he’s like, Oh, I’m sure it’s going to be, I mean, it’ll stop, you know, it has to stop, whatever. It becomes very apparent that it’s not going to stop and it’s coming right at them and they wake up the son, uh, whatever his name is, Archie, Archie.

They wake him up and they all get up and they run. And I was at least. Glad that this movie was smart enough to have them run. Perpendicular to the boat. Yeah, because what was that? What was that dumb? It was that Ridley Scott alien remake with Charlize Theron where a thing was falling and she was running right under the path of it.

Yeah, run to the side you dummy. So so they so they get out of the way like intelligent people but this thing totally beaches itself and that’s a strange incident. That they strangely then don’t want to talk. 

Kristen: They’re like, they’re all weirded out in the car. Like they’re leaving obviously. And then all of a sudden Julia Roberts is like, Ooh, Starbucks.

And then it’s like, oh my god, she’s like, let’s get some 

Todd: coffee. That was hilarious. I do feel like that’s a commentary too though, right? 

Craig: I mean, we’re so easily distracted. 

Todd: We are. And not just on these people, but just in general, all of us are kind of this way. And especially because we’re so connected now, almost nothing surprises us anymore, right?

Like, you hear about, all day long, you hear about different things that are happening in different parts of the world, and all of it seems so fantastic for a while, until none of it does. And so then if something like this happens to you, It is going to be crazy and strange, but maybe we are just going to kind of end up going on about our day without giving it much more thought.

Well, that’s a total 

Kristen: theme of the whole movie, too. It’s just kind of like these big signs or things happen. And you’re like, whoa, that was so weird. And then it’s like, all right, back to our day. 

Todd: Right. And somehow it’s, it’s realistic. I mean, I kind of, there was no point in this movie where I thought, oh, that’s, that’s unrealistic.

I just sort of feel like this is how A lot of people would act, or at least these people would act, because they are trying to get away, and so they are a bit unconnected. Now, we’re all always connected, even when we’re on vacation. We’re trying to get online, we’re getting on our laptops, or we’re trying to at least use our phones just to do things.

I thought it was funny, there’s a point in the movie where Ethan Hawke’s character mentions that I can’t do anything! I’m used to using my phone for everything, and I don’t have that now. Now I’m completely helpless. But because they’re getting away for vacation, They’re in this unique situation where they don’t really care and they’re, I mean, it’s annoying.

Yeah, but they’re not like questioning, why is the internet down? Why is the television service out? Plus, I guess they’re in a different home, so. 

Craig: Right. I, I found that to be realistic, like, oh, well, we’re away from home, maybe the Wi Fi’s bad, maybe the phone service is bad. Like, they’re not in this, like, the daughter’s irritated because she’s been watching Friends and has gotten up to the season finale, or the series.

Finale, and it locked up because we lost 

Kristen: internet. As a parent, I could totally relate to this. As a parent of a teen and a almost teen, I could totally relate to like, Hey, we just spent like all our money on this cool vacation place. And our kids being like, well, my life is ruined because there is an internet.

Craig: Yeah, there’s one part where the daughter comes and wakes up the parents like you guys, the internet’s down and the TV doesn’t work. Get up. Fix it. . Yeah. I I thought that was pretty funny too. Okay. So Well, she 

Kristen: said, she goes, she goes, I have anxiety about how this is gonna end. And I thought, yeah. Same about this movie

Todd: You, me 

Craig: too. Right. I, I also thought that it was weird that she had gotten through the entire season her series of friends and didn’t think it was weird when her mom was on it. Right.

her mom 

Kristen: stole Jeweller’s pants. . 

Todd: That’s 

Craig: hilarious. Anyway, was Ethan the Hawk on friends? I don’t remember. No, I don’t know. I don’t think so. But Julia Roberts definitely was. That was an interesting in universe funny thing. But okay, so this thing, the whole thing’s broken up into chapters. And this first chapter is called The House.

And I think that it’s still in this chapter. It’s nighttime. This weird thing has happened. They go to bed, but then there’s a knock on the door. The score behind all of this Almost gave me a heart attack. The, the score is constantly telling you that something terrible is about to happen. Yeah, it’s like you’re the whole movie.

Kristen: The mom and dad are still up, and this is like another, God, it just, I was so anxious because I’ve been those people, not Rich, but I’ve been those 

Craig: people like I saw, I saw you in this scene. Yeah, 

Kristen: I told Rick, I said, I called him and the reason I wanted him to watch it was because I needed someone to talk to about it and I watched it alone, and I said, oh my God, Ethan Hawke is so, my husband.

And she is me, except I’m not, I hope I’m not quite that bitchy and jaded, but her, her distrust of people and just like always worried about the worst thing first was so me. And so like, she’s, they’re just chatting in the kitchen and she’s like, did you hear that? And that’s so me. And he’s like, no. And he just keeps talking.

And it’s just like, there is someone here. And that, that total, that whole scene, I said, you’ll know the scene, Craig, you’ll know when it’s me. And it’s my 

Todd: husband. And I did.

Kristen: And it just goes on through this whole scene. This is exactly how it would play out in my 

Craig: house. Yeah. So these people, there’s one difference between you and her in this scene. That we will talk about, but so there, so somebody knocks on the door, uh, and then it’s the middle of the night. It’s like three in the morning or something like that.

So they’re kind of scared. And, and like Ethan Hawke, like grabs a sculpture to me, uses a weapon. I don’t know, but, um, it’s a very well dressed couple of people. I couldn’t tell at first if it was. Uh, man and woman like in a romantic relationship, but no, it’s, um, a father and daughter, both very, you know, good looking people.

The dad is played by Mahershala Ali, 

Kristen: and he is very good looking. 

Craig: He is very good looking. I read that Denzel Washington was originally cast, but ended up dropping out. And I think I’m glad, because I think, one, there would have been something jarring about having 

Todd: Denzel Washington show up at your doorstep?

Well, 

Craig: Denzel Washington and Julia Roberts together, especially, I don’t know, I feel like it would have been too much. Um, this guy is really successful. I think this guy’s got Oh, he’s an Oscar 

Todd: winner! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two. Two 

Craig: times. Yeah. And his daughter. Um, but she’s immediately suspicious of them, which I get like, I’m cautious with people too, but they say, look, there’s a blackout in the city.

We came from the city. We have not had 

Todd: the pleasure of meeting 

Craig: face to face. I’m, I’m G H G H Scott, George. He’s George. That’s how it reads in his email. Forgive me. I forgot. See, this is why I much prefer life. Because we would have spoken on the phone, would have recognized my voice and known that this is our house.

I’m sorry? Uh, this is our house. I’m the George you emailed back and forth with. No, I, I remember the name, I just This is This is your house? 

Todd: Like, that, like, 

Kristen: she, why, why is 

Craig: she blatantly racist? I think it’s just supposed to be that she hates everyone, but she allows race to be one of the things that she judges people by.

And they even have, like, they become friends later. Amanda and GH. This is the Julia Roberts and this guy that just showed up. They become friends later. I have no idea why he shows her so much grace. I think we’re just supposed to believe that he’s a genuinely good person. Because even the daughter is not having this racist nonsense.

And, like, I love that she pushes back all the time. And, and at one point, Julia Roberts is like, um, I’m sorry. Uh, I just don’t trust you. And Ruth is like, Hmm, I wonder what it could be about us that would lead us not or lead you to not trust us. And the dad, seriously, like he’s just too genuinely good. He’s like, no, Ruth, Ruth, no, no.

Like he’s just constantly trying to stop conflict, which good for him. Yeah, 

Kristen: but I think also, it’s not just like he’s a genuinely good guy, I think this is a very real thing that people of color just have to deal with constantly, and it’s kind of like the whole thing where it’s like we’re gonna teach our, our black sons that, you know, it’s like hands in the air, if police stop you, don’t do anything, like, I think it’s something that he’s probably become so accustomed to, like, oh, we’ve always got to explain ourselves, people are just gonna doubt, so you have to be pleasant, you can’t get And so I don’t think it’s just he’s a nice guy.

I think that was probably very purposeful. Yeah. 

Todd: And how I’m sure you’re right. Yeah. Well, at one point he does say to them, you know, they’re like, the girl is, is really saying we need to get them to leave. And. He’s saying, well, that’s not going to happen if we scare them. So he’s doing everything in his power to keep that family calm and not scare them in any way, shape 

Craig: or form.

And we’re talking about them in the context of already knowing these characters and who they are. Ultimately, this was a really tense part of the movie because we don’t know who these people are either. They say. It’s their house, but when she eventually, and it takes a while, when she eventually asks to see his ID, he’s like, Oh, uh, I must’ve lost it.

Todd: we’ve seen a lot of, uh, home invasion movies that start off this way. Right. 

Craig: And I kept looking at Alan, like, no, no, something, something’s up. Something’s up. Yeah. 

Kristen: Something’s going on. I have seen too many stories about those Airbnb killers. Like, that’s where my mind would be. And so when they said that, that would be where I say, Oh, I don’t know.

Bye. And that’s where Julia 

Craig: Roberts is like, she’s like, we don’t know these people. They are strangers. My children are sleeping down the hall. Like I get it. I understand why she’s. Trepidatious about it. It makes total sense. But they eventually end up, because Ethan Hawke is like, Oh, no, I’m sure they’re nice.

You know, why wouldn’t we believe them? They seem like nice 

Kristen: people. Which is my husband! Again! In fact, I would so be her, like, Can we talk in the other room, please? 

Todd: Right. Pardon us for a moment. 

Craig: That Ethan Hawke lets them stay and they sleep downstairs in like, what does he call it? The in laws chambers or something, eventually that bothers.

There’s a lot of stuff going on here. This movie, like we are probably going to get responses and be like, this is such a woke movie. It really is. I mean, if that’s what, if you’re defining woke as. Addressing issues and, and having a point of view, then yeah, this is a woke movie. There’s, there’s, uh, you know, blatant racial issues.

There are blatant environmental issues. There are blatant, uh, technology things, political commentary. There’s a, again, jumping ahead of myself, but there’s a shady figure later on who shall not be named. That’s clearly Elon Musk. 

Kristen: So there are And it was produced by the Obamas. And it was 

Craig: produced by the Obamas.

Another thing I, uh, I was talking to Alan, and I was like, Okay, so Julia Roberts agent is like, Hey, Julia Roberts, do you want to be in a horror thriller? No. Produced by the Obamas. Yes.

Kristen: I saw her actually talk about this in an interview and she was like, already connected to it. But she said, but then anyone who would listen to me, I’m like, Hey, did you know that the Obamas are executive producing this? 

Craig: And it’s based on a book that I would actually be really interested in reading because I think there’s a lot of storytelling going on here.

That’s very interesting. And a lot of times a story like this. I think would be better told as a limited series. And I also don’t typically particularly enjoy movies that are over two hours long, but I think that this was just right. I think that they packed the storytelling into just, I feel like if it had been drawn out over eight hours.

It potentially could have gotten boring. Oh yeah. Um, but I think that it needed the two hours and twenty minutes or whatever it is to get out as much as it could, and I really liked it. And we’re still in the first chapter. Oh my god, I know. So, this, so, uh, they end up letting them stay and everything’s fine for a while.

The only other interesting thing that’s going on is that there are lots of deer? No. Deer just keep showing up, like. flocks of deer. This was I live in. I live in rural Missouri. It’s a very deer Hunting place and deer do sometimes travel in herds, but not like this. No, not hundreds of deer. Just staring at you from the hedges.

Yeah, so something is definitely weird going on. Okay, I 

Todd: do have a criticism about this movie, now that you brought up the deer. Because, I guess I gotta give it a pass because we still don’t know for sure, even by the end of the film, exactly what happened. But I cannot imagine a cataclysmic event that would happen.

Where over the course of a day, nature starts to take over, you know, 

Craig: I think the movie explains it. It’s a blink and you miss it thing. There’s a point where Ethan Hawke is in the car and he’s been listening to the radio, but it’s just been static or he’s not been able to get anything. And then I think he even maybe gets out of the car.

He gets out of the car so he doesn’t get to hear it, but we do. And it says, whatever this is. They still can’t identify it, but whatever it is, it has caused disturbances in the migration patterns of animals. Oh, 

Kristen: okay. Yeah, and they’re even sort of suggesting that there may be radiation in the air, and that’s like the animals are moving away or they’re sensing 

Todd: something.

Oh, radiation. We know for movies that can explain anything. Okay. All right. No criticism here anymore. 

Craig: Well, I mean, he’s still, it still doesn’t make a, I don’t understand what is happening. I don’t understand because they also keep saying the, the, the young daughter is the one that noticed all these deer and she keeps saying, and the other later when a flock of flamingos.

Laying in the pool. Uh, Ruth. Also comes to both the daughters come to the conclusion the animals are trying to tell us something, right? They know something and they’re trying to warn us. Do they wait? What are they? What are they warning you against and and then there’s a scene later Yeah, we, the story sequentially is very easy to explain, but I want to talk about these things as I think about them.

So I don’t forget there’s a scene late in the movie where Ruth is in the woods near the house and the horde of deer surround her and like their leader comes right up to her face. And then Julia Roberts runs in and saves the day by screaming and scaring them all away. I was like, what? Maybe she’s Snow White.

I think that they want to like lead her to a magical land. And Alan was like, she just needs to start singing. The song. 

Kristen: Well, I didn’t know them, like, are they warning or do, are they hungry? Do they want to eat the people? What are the deer doing? 

Craig: And we never 

Todd: find out. It’s played sinister though. It’s played sinister because it’s, and this, the movie does this a couple times and I absolutely loved, I loved this choice.

Where it takes two events that are happening simultaneously, and they’re both equally intense, and they’re both equally building, the score lets you know, and it cuts back and forth between them, and then they both resolve, in exactly the same way, more or less, at exactly the same time. I really liked that.

That was really cool. And I can’t think of too many movies where I’ve seen that happen. Although it’s not uncommon, I think. Uh, this movie did it like three or four times. And so, because what was happening on the other end, I don’t remember exactly what it was, but it was way more sinister than this. Oh, it was the, kind of, The gun.

The gun standoff. I read the deer thing as equally sinister and potentially deadly. I 

Craig: didn’t know, like, potentially deadly, yes, because deer are very powerful animals, um, I would, you, you certainly don’t want to tussle with one, especially males with antlers, I mean, they could gore you in a second, but it didn’t seem like The deer were threatening them.

Well, I don’t know if you’re 

Todd: surrounded by any wild 

Craig: animal. Definitely be scared. I would, I would shit my pants. I would do the same thing that Julia Roberts did, which is smart. You know, make yourself bigger and loud and scare them away. They, they, they are deer are also very, they’re skittish and you can scare them away very easily, but also.

If they wanted to hurt that girl, why didn’t they? Yeah. Well, 

Kristen: I thought, just turn back around and go back in that shed. Well, that’s 

Craig: true. Just try to get away from it. Ha ha ha, don’t stand there and stare them 

Kristen: down. I would try that first, and then if I had to scare them I would, but I would just be like, Uh, I’m going back inside.

Craig: Ha ha ha, well. I still don’t understand it. I, I did not get the impression that they had malicious intent. So I, I still don’t understand what was going on there, other than the movie tells us it affects their migration. Well, that’s fine if it affects their migration, but these deer aren’t migrating.

They’re all just hanging around this house. 

Todd: Yeah, that’s, that’s, again, I mean, that’s like, it’s, it seems to be more than migration being affected here, right? All I know is that as soon as she came out and screamed and the deer ran away, ran away, I could breathe and I was like, oh, okay, good, they’re not gonna get shot.

Not the deer. But the people in the other scene, the way the scene 

Craig: was played out, right? And, and the CGI was pretty convincing too, I have to give it credit where credit’s due. 

Todd: You don’t think they had trained 

Craig: deer? No, I don’t. 

Kristen: I can’t remember if I read it or if I watched some YouTube clip of an interview, but the director did talk about the deer as like, And the deer are part of the book too, but he talked about liking how in the beginning, the deer, you know, first Julia Roberts and Ethan Hawke see the deer and they’re like, Oh, how sweet.

And the husband’s like, yeah, he’s like, he’s like, it’s a good omen. But then he talks about this peaceful thing that people see and they think it’s so cool. Kind of becomes menacing just because everything is becoming menacing because they don’t know what the heck is going on Well, and so he said he just really liked that imagery too of like once you don’t know what is happening Even the most peaceful things all of a sudden are like these ominous menacing creatures That’s 

Todd: true.

And they do play the deer kind of like a horror movie. There’s a point where 

Craig: 100 percent 

Todd: that great shot where she it’s dark outside she goes to the kitchen to like it gets a some coffee and she flips on a couple different lights because Hey, she’s in a new house, she doesn’t know which one’s which.

One of the lights flips on the lights outside and the minute she flips it on behind her, you see just like six glowing 

Craig: eyes. Yeah. Oh, way more than that. Like six pairs, six pairs. 

Kristen: And it’s as scary as if it was ghost 

Todd: face. Yeah, it was. It was freaky. And then it comes off and you’re like, no, no, no. Turn around and look at the deer.

I’m not sure why, but that’s how I felt. That’s how it played. 

Craig: It’s so funny because I am so familiar. With deer that that’s exactly what it would look like their eyes do luminous like that When light is is somebody who’s not familiar with deer would think ah, they’re like ghost demons, right? That’s that’s really what they look like.

So you weren’t 

Todd: met a stop. I just thought the way that 

Craig: I thought it was super creepy Right. It’s just I I’ve seen that in real life. I know that’s a 

Todd: real thing Well, it is cool how the director played those horror movie conventions in this way to freak us out, even though, ultimately, you know, there was nothing, at least in many of these circumstances, to freak us out, at least in the traditional horror sense, like, these things are gonna get you.

That happened multiple times in the movie where he played with these conventions of a horror movie to instill that horror and instill that dread without us getting the typical payoff of, ah, now you’re dead, 

Craig: you know, kind of thing. Yes, I, I, I, Continue to assert that the score plays a large part of that, like all the time.

Like I seriously, I said, okay, I get it like out loud. I said, okay, I get it. I’m scared. Stop. Somebody die already. 

Kristen: Thing. Something let us know what’s happening, but we skipped from like chapter one to the end 

Craig: chapter. Well, right. I was going to say no. So, okay. We got the house and then the other people show up.

And they let them stay. And then the second chapter is called the curve. And really the only thing they kind of split off the kids go exploring in the woods and he gets bit by a tick or something. Then Julia Roberts and G H or whatever his name is, um, have a conversation. Now he’s shady. He clearly knows.

It’s here that he just says, oh, if you pay attention to things, you notice that things happen in waves. And when the curve starts to shift one way, you know, something’s about to go down. Like, well, 

Kristen: he talks about the market, like that’s what he does in his line of work. And you can watch for signs leading up to some big event.

And so he knew something was kind of coming because there had been some events happening. 

Craig: Right, so he knew something was coming. He’s still being very evasive and we find out later that he does know more than he’s telling now But he claims that he’s not and then there’s a high pitched Squealing that they all hear that is torturous to them and Julia her kids are out in the woods So Julia Roberts just blindly runs into the woods to find her kids and that’s when the next chapter comes up and it’s the sound The noise, the noise.

Is it the noise? Yeah. I tried so hard. 

Todd: Well, you didn’t take nine pages of notes, Craig. 

Craig: No, I did not. I was just going to say it happens and then she is majestically reunited with her kids. Like they’re five feet away and the son is like, at some point, Oh man, I guess I should have covered my ears. Faster. I feel kind of funny now But 

Kristen: he also just got bitten by a disgusting bug that was like burrowing into his ankle 

Craig: That he acted like was no big deal.

Like he picked out inside his body. Uh huh, and he pulled out like a long bloody string. It was 

Kristen: disgusting. I just wrote gross bug. Like it was disgusting. And then he just goes on like, you know, a bug was on me. But no, that bug was in you. It was really 

Craig: and then the husband tries to go into town but gets lost and disoriented.

And he comes across a woman on the highway. And again, I think that this is just commentary about how a Self centered we are but at the same time, I 

Kristen: thought it was so sad. It really 

Craig: affected him And I think he this woman she she’s not in English speaking She only speaks Spanish and he doesn’t speak Spanish.

My Spanish is so poor The only thing that I could understand was please you’re the first person I’ve seen all day And she was clearly asking for help. Something about an 

Todd: airplane. Yeah, 

Kristen: well I have been doing my Spanish lessons every day for over a year now. And so I was really pleased with myself that I caught a few things.

But yeah, she talked about she was lost, she needed to get back to her house, she couldn’t find her family. I think she mentioned something about chemicals or she didn’t know what was going on. Like something was really scaring her. And she, he was the first person she’d seen all day. And she was like, please, please take me back to my house.

Craig: I also didn’t, that’s one of my only criticisms about the movie. Where are all the other people? There would be tons of people. Even out in this isolated area. Mahershala’s 

Kristen: character said you hardly ever see anybody else in this area at this time of year. So he kind of explained that, kind of like this is like a summer home or something, I don’t know.

Todd: But the beach was full of people. I mean, I don’t know, that beach could have been 20 miles down the road, but still. 

Craig: I don’t know. Yeah. And the roads are all locked up. So he doesn’t help her. He just leaves her on the side of the road. And then some big drone flies over. I had no idea what was going on. I couldn’t tell if it was like a swarm of insects or I thought 

Kristen: it was gas at 

Craig: first or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Like that’s, I thought either a swarm of insects or like crop dusting. It’s not meant to be something like that. It turns out it was like flyers, like death to America in Arabic. And so that happens to him. The, the other dad, uh, has gone off as well. I don’t remember why, but he ends up on a beach where.

Kristen: Oh, he went to, so he went to his, like a friend’s house who, yeah. He’s like, he’ll know, like, he’s kind of a, he’s always prepared. He’ll know what’s going on. Kind of 

Craig: a thing. And so the, the house is all torn up and he, and he stumbles down to the beach and. I wasn’t wearing my glasses. I rarely do when I’m just watching TV and Alan’s like, did you see that?

I was like, no, he’s like, I think that was a bunch of bodies. Oh yeah, it was obvious. He stumbles down there and like, he sees a watch in the sand and he goes to pick it up and Alan says, that’s going to be attached to an arm, which it totally is. A disembodied arm that freaks him out. And he starts looking around and realizes that he’s surrounded by bodies.

And I was like, so he just stumbled onto this beach littered with bodies. Didn’t notice anything, but that watch. 

Todd: That was probably 

Craig: smell 

Kristen: real green 

Craig: and plane crashes, multiple plane crashes. And then another one crashes while he’s there. Like he has to run away from it. Why are I okay. Why on this beach? I exactly, I can buy hackers hacking into systems and crashing airplanes that I can easily buy why they are all crashing on this beach.

That makes no 

Kristen: sense to me. Well, I don’t think they’re all crashing on that beach, but he talked about there was an airport there because his wife was gonna fly into one. So I just, you know, I figure there are probably planes crashing all over the place, but they don’t have communications anymore, or people, you know, like, they’re not being guided, so nothing, everything’s failing, and so because they’re close to an airport, that’s why these planes are crashing there, but I don’t think it’s all the planes.

Think about how many planes are in the sky every day. 

Craig: I guess, but I wouldn’t think that four of them would crash at the 

Kristen: exact same place, that is a little 

Craig: weird. Yeah, true. Anyway, okay, so then they all come back, and they don’t know what’s going on. And so, the kids go to bed at like, Eight o’clock, I guess.

Todd: Well, when the power’s 

Craig: out, that’s When you got no internet. I guess, right. And, and the girl laments not being able to watch Friends, and the guy jerks it to pictures that he took of the other daughter, not his sister, the other one. 

Kristen: No, he didn’t feel good. He couldn’t do 

Craig: it. He’s yeah, he couldn’t finish.

Yeah, he didn’t feel good. It’s so funny that you say that because that’s what I thought. I was like, you’re not even gonna finish. You got started. I mean, anyway, uh, and so then the adults are split up. Ethan Hawk is with the other daughter, Ruth and Julia Roberts is with G H. And I thought that they both independently of one another.

We’re going to bang, right? If I felt like that, that’s where the movie was taking us because Ethan Hawke and Ruth get stoned together and talk and he confesses that, uh, he left that woman helpless. But then Julia Roberts and the other guy have a long 

Kristen: conversation. They’re drunk, they’re drinking the whole time.

I wrote in my notes. Mama 

Craig: drinks a lot. She does. And Julia Roberts played drunk really well. Yeah, that’s playing drunk is not easy. Not to do it convincingly. 

Kristen: It wasn’t over the top. She just was like, it totally loosened her up. And it made sense for her character, because she’s so uptight, that she probably does drink a lot to try to 

Craig: relax.

Yeah, and she’s like, I changed my mind, I like you, and he’s It’s like, yeah, I kind of found you pretty prickly at first, but you’ve grown on me. And so they’re getting along, they’re laughing. And then he starts telling her this story about how he’s got this big client. He’s like, I’m not going to tell you the name, but if I did, you’d totally know who it was.

It’s somebody who’s into like high tech security and blah, blah, blah. Like there are several people that he could be talking about, but he’s obviously talking about one of the billionaires like Elon Musk. score, Bezos or Zuckerberg or whoever. He’s obviously talking about one of these guys. And he says that he went to a party at one of their, at this guy’s house and they got really drunk together.

And the guy was like, Oh, I really like you. I wish I could take you on vacation with me next year. And he jokingly, no, he said, where, where are you going? And the guy said, Oh, just my annual meeting with the evil cabal that runs the world. And then, like, he says that the guy telling the story, G. H., says it very seriously, and then he starts laughing.

He’s like, oh, he was just kidding. 

Todd: And he makes jokes like 

Craig: this, yeah. Yeah, and then Julia Roberts is like, haha, I’m gonna grab another glass of wine. And he grabs her by the arm, very ominously. And he goes, and then. I don’t even remember what he said. It was just so ominous. 

Kristen: Well, he talked about, well, yeah, he was joking, but then, like.

He called me right before all this crap started happening and I had to move money around for him, 

Craig: like a lot of money. Right. And, and he was getting out of To town out of America. I don’t know. And he said, take care of yourself. Like he felt sorry for me. So that’s how he knew something was going down.

That’s how he knew how to get out of the city. Yeah. 

Todd: He made the email cabal joke back to him, and this time the guy didn’t even laugh, he said, so it was, yeah. Right. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Kristen: Also, we skipped right over the weird white lady dancing. And I just wrote that and I just wrote that happens right now that is right now, but I 

Craig: think she gets mad.

She she’s like, I changed my mind. I don’t like you anymore. And so he’s like, Well, come on, we’ll lighten the mood. And he takes her down to his sex dungeon. I don’t 

Todd: know. 

Kristen: Library. 

Todd: He’s also a musician they talk about, or at least he’s really into music because didn’t he come that’s why he’s dressed up. He came from like a 

Craig: A symphony concert.

I think he came from the symphony. He was like on the board of directors of the symphony or something. That’s right. And it’s also been established that she’s big time into like R& B and rap and hip hop. And so he takes her downstairs and he’s like, do you want to listen to some jazz? And she’s like, seriously?

I thought we were going to have fun. And she’s like, oh look, I found some records. He’s like, no, those are my daughter’s. And she pulls something out and she’s like, this is something a woman can properly dance to. And she puts it on and it’s, I don’t know. 

Kristen: Oh god, it was, it was so popular in my high school days.

I was right back there. 

Craig: Kristen was big into rap in high school. 

Todd: Nice, that was me in 

Craig: middle school. That’s right. It’s more R& B though, yeah. She, she would sometimes rap for me. Aww, that is so cute. 

Kristen: That was my embarrassing wise 

Craig: lady. Would you care, would you care to repeat that? I would not. Do it! Do 

Todd: it!

Alright, well, I’ll just tell you, the song was too close by Next. It was too close, 

Kristen: yeah. Uh, no, no. Craig, well, in college, Craig, one of Craig’s roommates, had a huge, we went out, it was like freshman week at Truman, and we were seeing his dorm room, and as soon as we walk in there’s this gigantic Poster of Biggie Smalls, so I did a little dance to it.

Biggie, Biggie, can’t you see? Sometimes you wear it, you see it, and it dies me. Anyways. Nice, keep going. He found, no, 

Craig: that’s about all I know. That was great, that was 

Kristen: about it. Oh, but the white lady dancing, whatever she was doing with her hands. Oh, it 

Craig: was the Elaine dance from Seinfeld. And like, I read that later.

But that’s what I said, I’m like, oh my god, she’s Elaine from Seinfeld. I thought that too. So, she. I mean, she’s just a terrible, first of all, it’s not a great song to dance to. It’s, it’s, it’s like a little bit slow and I felt like they were the, the actor who plays GH was doing his best to be smooth, even though it was a really difficult song to dance to.

Kristen: Well, and he was drunk. It made sense for like, this might be how you dance if you’ve been drinking a while and you think it looks good. 

Craig: Sure. And then they like embrace and like, both of them are super horny for each other, but she’s like, no, we’re married. And he’s like, yeah, okay. I But but nothing happens nothing happens, but then they they all go to bed and the daughter is like don’t trust them Something is happening.

It’s happening right now, and it’s it’s just us you can’t trust people especially White people is 

Kristen: to try to leave to they decided they were going to go like to her sisters or something. But then they came back. Yeah. And I thought it was funny when the daughter, her daughter was like, Why are we sleeping in our basement for?

Why do we let them back in? Why are we still sleeping in the basement? This is our house. Maybe I can do the laundry later. Like, yeah, and 

Craig: it’s an excellent question. It’s their house talking about socioeconomic status. These people who own this house, they are way higher on the ladder than Julia Roberts’s family.

So It really, you can’t take race out of that equation. The daughter is totally right to say, why are we sleeping in the basement in our own house? Um, and when she said we can’t trust people, especially white people, I was thinking, you know what, you’re right. And, and the dad should listen to her at the very next day.

They wake up, the son is sick in the night. And when they wake up in the morning, his teeth are falling out. So the only thing they can think of is to go to. Kevin Bacon’s house, who we haven’t seen. This is the very end of the movie where there’s a big standoff. He talks about how, yeah, this is, you know, I, I consider it war and they have a big standoff.

And that’s when the dad, GH explains. Cause my primary client works in the defense sector. I spent a lot of time studying the cost benefit analysis of military campaigns. There was one program in particular that terrified my client the most. A simple three stage maneuver that could topple a country’s government from within.

First stage is isolation. Disable their communication and transportation. Make the target as deaf, dumb, and paralyzed as possible. Sudden them up for the second stage, synchronize chaos, terrorize them with covert attacks and misinformation, overwhelming their defense capabilities, leaving their weapons systems vulnerable to extremists in their own military.

Without a clear enemy or motive, people would start turning on each other.

Done successfully, the third stage would happen on its own. What’s the third stage? The coup d’etat. Civil war.

Collapse. The program was considered the most cost effective way to destabilize a country. Because if the target nation was dysfunctional enough, it would, in essence, do the work for you. So that’s the big plan and so then the the daughter Ruth has run away because she’s so upset that she can’t see the end of Friends.

Julia Roberts and Ruth are out looking for her. That’s when they have the big deer confrontation. There’s the big standoff with Kevin Bacon, um, and then Kevin Bacon’s a contractor, and one of his friends had recently done a job for one of GH’s neighbors that they did without permits off the books, and he said, I can’t be for sure, but I would bet money that that’s like a fallout shelter or a safe room or whatever.

So, um, Julia Roberts and the, and Ruth are in the forest looking for Rose, and they see across the bay that New York is in flames, then we, we see that Rose has found this other house and we hear Julia Roberts calling for her outside so we know they’re close. GH has already said to Ethan Hawke, we’ve got to get to that.

So we know they’re all going to end up there, but the way that the movie ends is Rose goes down into the compound and it’s amazing. It’s like a rich person’s fallout shelter, right? And it’s got everything, including an incredible library. of DVDs featuring all of the seasons of Buffy, 

Todd: which we’re all learning is absolutely necessary.

Don’t throw away your DVDs because he’s streaming services will take things from you and you’ll never 

Craig: get the bag. That’s right. Keep them. I’ve got all mine in boxes and she puts in the last disc and oh my God, Alan said, how many times did we watch these discs? There were years. There were years. When we didn’t have cable and we just put those discs on rotation 24 7 and that’s why Kristen and Alan have the entire series of friends memorized.

Todd: But what, what a fitting ending. I think other people have complained about the ending. Uh, I mean, aside from explaining everything and kind of going there with the movie, it’s just that You know, it’s, it’s, in some ways it’s fitting, in some ways it’s uplifting because we get the friends music at the end, but in other ways it’s kind of cynical.

Like, the first thing that this girl wants to do is just Finish her series and finally see how friends ends. We want to know how the world is going to end. The name of the friends episode is the last one. Uh, you know, it’s 

Craig: just kind of funny. That’s the thing. Like my mom watched it at the same time as me and she finished it about 15 minutes before I did.

And so she called and said, call me when you’re done. And I called her and she said, what did you think of the ending? I said, and she said, I hate it. I thought it was so stupid. And I said, how did you want it to end? What did you think was going to happen? This, this was not something that you could wrap up in a loopo.

I 

Kristen: mean, The first time I watched it, I think I told you, I think I texted you, Best and worst ending ever. Yeah. Like, because you want to know what’s gonna happen, but also it was so Perfect. And it had been building since the very first scene where the daughter’s iPad stops working in the car in the very first scene on that last episode.

The part four we didn’t talk about is, it’s called The Flood, which I, you know, this whole movie, if you ever do rewatch it, it’s full of symbolism. But it was kind of like, yeah, they’ve got to get to the Ark. Like, this is like the biblical story like the world has to be cleansed and start over and she finds it.

Like she’s like, I’m tired of waiting. She references this West wing, um, reference, which also I have all of those episodes memorized as 

Todd: well. The painting behind them in the bedroom keeps changing. It’s like more and more water, right? Waves and stuff. It took me a while to notice that the 

Kristen: paintings in the living room changed three times too.

And I. I just still don’t really know that symbolism, it’s, the painting gets a little more chaotic, but also I noticed the final painting in the living room, it’s always black and white, but the black and white ratio is more even, which I wondered if that had kind of a, a racial undertone as well, but yeah, those paintings changed like at least three times, and then the waves, uh, painting in the bedroom changed as well.

There’s rewatch it. I don’t know that I would rewatch it right back to back, like I ended up doing it, because that was a lot. 

Todd: It’s filled with stuff. I liked it. I don’t think it’s going to be everyone’s cup of tea because it doesn’t wrap everything up in a nice little bubble, but I did feel like it was a more or less accurate representation of what might happen, at least to some people, you know, in an event like this, in a certain circumstance, so it felt real realistic.

And it felt like the kind of movie that everybody kind of needs to see, because I think he’s right. It seems like Aldous Huxley had better beat on how we were all gonna mess ourselves up, you know, as a society, in that we’re all just gonna be so distracted by technology and we’re just so plugged in and so dependent on it that all somebody needs to do is sow confusion.

And distrust, 

Craig: you know. Yeah, Ethan Hawke has that, you mentioned it before, but he says he’s so reliant on everything that he’s a useless man. And I feel that, like, if we were suddenly to lose all of our technology, think about, you know, we have no way of communicating. I was telling Alan, like, I couldn’t even call my parents who live Five miles down the road.

We wouldn’t know what to do. What would you do? And there’s, there’s no money because money is all digital now. It would just be absolute chaos. We would have no memories. All of our photographs and videos are. Digital. If that’s gone, it’s just gone. So, I do think that there are some really interesting warnings, and I did ultimately enjoy it.

The ending, I liked it for what it was, because I can’t imagine how else I would have preferred it to end. I 

Kristen: think they do make it. Like, like you said, everyone is headed there, and then like, if you go back to all the blue, like, when the screen turns on, she’s just flooded in the blue light. From the TV. And I think that’s just kind of like a, see, we’re back to this hopeful ending.

Like they’re listening, they’re ending up where they need to be. They’re going to, something’s going to happen. And you mentioned, um, Brave New World, Aldous Huxley. Did you notice that the sign hanging off of his, the bunker house? It says the Huxleys. Yeah, I did. Yeah. I liked all those 

Todd: nods to things. It was cool.

Filled with stuff. Well, thank you so much Kristen for recommending this movie to Craig and Craig for recommending it to me It was so great to have you back on the podcast. It’s been a while and I hope this yeah We’ll have you back on later this year, maybe maybe Well, I hope that ends on a hopeful note because you know, we’re hopeful for the new year And, uh, we just hope that something like this doesn’t happen.

Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you so much, Kristen, for joining us. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. Just search us online, Tool Guys and The Chainsaw Podcast. Uh, leave us a note on any one of our things there. Drop us a voice message. There’s a link from our website to do that.

And, uh, consider our Patreon page. Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Until next time, I’m Todd. I’m 

Craig: Craig. And you’re?

Kristen: And I’m the sister. Ha ha 

Todd ha ha! With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy New Year! This week, we bring you a fairly new Polish film that’s streaming on Netflix which was a blast to watch. A New Year’s Eve party goes awry and everyone ends up dying. It’s like a horror version of American Pie, and it really surprised us! Thanks, Patrons, for choosing our first episode of 2024!

All My Friends Are Dead (2020)

Episode 375, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Happy New Year from two guys and a chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: 2024. I don’t know if it’s going to get any better than 2023, honestly. I’m going to try to remain hopeful and positive, but, uh. Holy crap, we have had a few interesting years these last few years. And, uh, I feel like the future is a big unknown.

So I’m entering 2024 with A bit of trepidation, but always hopeful. The world constantly surprises me. I’m just hoping that someday soon it’ll start surprising me in the right direction instead of the wrong direction. I’m gonna 

Craig: be optimistic and say I think 2024 is gonna be great. 2023 was better than the years Before like for you, I mean we went through that stupid pandemic And I I don’t mean to downplay it I just mean it sucked We went through that pandemic and we’ve come out of it and I know things aren’t perfect but I really think things are getting better and I I think they’re gonna keep getting better.

Well, I sure, yeah, I have, I, I have to be optimistic. 

Todd: I sure hope so. I mean, if you live in the Middle East right now, 2023 has been a bit of a nightmare. So, uh, yeah, but hopefully we can only go 

Craig: up from here and, and yeah, and, and God willing. I just, I have, I have no idea how that conflict is gonna be resolved, uh, but, uh, I certainly hope it is, somehow, because it’s terrible.

Well, what a fun way to start out our New Year’s 

Todd: podcast. Right, I know, I feel a little guilty for saying that, but, you know, it is a new year, it’s time for reflection, it’s time for looking ahead as well as looking back. That’s true. And, um, this year, we always, well, we always try to do a New Year’s themed podcast.

There are even fewer New Year’s themed horror movies than there are. Easter themed horror movies, I think. 

Craig: Uh, I’m not sure how we missed this one, until you brought it to my attention this year, and it came to my attention when you posted it as a choice on a poll on our Patreon page. Like, I had never heard of it before 2020!

Maybe because it’s foreign? Did it come out in the states in 2020? I mean, it’s a Netflix production, so presumably it did. Yeah, 

Todd: I think, it’s definitely a Netflix production. I’m sure just like they do with all their foreign films, is they put it on and, you know, for everybody. I mean, not all their foreign films, but the ones that they produce, they seem to have a, like a, I mean, maybe I’m giving Netflix too much credit, but I know that they’re big on data, you know, and the productions that they produce themselves and put money into are very much, um, geared towards data and what they think their users are.

I think I see a trend where they’re trying to get foreign films that are gonna have a wide appeal, cross borders, and And so I sort of have this feeling that this film was funded with the, even though it’s Polish, was funded with the intent that they could throw it up in a lot of different markets. And I don’t think that’s wrong.

I think this film, it’s not distinctly Polish. I mean, uh, No. You know, it takes place in Poland. Obviously, they’re speaking Polish. I’m sure there’s some humor in here maybe I didn’t get. There’s a lot of humor in here I did get. I thought this was a very funny movie in many ways. Very dark comedy is what it turns out to be.

But yeah, I thought this movie could have just as easily been produced in the U. S. in English and it would have, uh, it wouldn’t have felt any different. No, it felt 

Craig: very American. Especially since the soundtrack. Oh yeah. Okay, now, I did, I did read, after I watched the movie, I read reviews, and one of the reviews was titled, watch the sub, not the dub.

Which 

Todd: one did you watch? I watched the sub. 

Craig: Okay. I watched the dub because they said, they said that if you watch it in the original Polish with the subtitles, the jokes are closer in translation as opposed to the dub where they, I don’t know. I don’t know how you Americanize a translation, but that’s what they made it sound like.

Now, again, I’m talking about a user review. So. I see. I have no idea about the accuracy of that, but no, it felt very American to me. I was starting to say, especially since the soundtrack is largely like 70s and 80s rock. Yeah. Which I loved. It was fantastic. Like I want to go. Aside from all the dying, I want to go to that New Year’s party.

They were playing the most fun music and people were dancing and super into it. It was awesome. Have we even said what movie we’re watching? 

Todd: It’s called All My Friends Are Dead from 2020. We posed this to our patrons. We had a list of about three, I think I put up three or four movies. Um, one of which was Schwarzenegger’s End of Days, which I was sure would win.

I thought for sure I was positive that was gonna win. But no, maybe, maybe it was the description, you know, that kind of, uh, caught people’s interest on this one. Basically, during a New Year’s Eve party, a bunch of friends, a series of crazy events brings out secrets, breaks hearts, and leads to a shocking ending, which sounds like A lot of horror movies we’ve reviewed here.

So I’ll bet, I’ll bet that one put it over the edge. Maybe that and, or the fact that maybe a lot of people haven’t seen it. We’re curious about it. I don’t know. 

Craig: Maybe. I don’t know either, but when I saw the title. It was familiar to me because I own a small illustrated book called All My Friends Are Dead.

There’s like a satirical book. Yes, with a dinosaur on the cover, right? Yes! The sad brontosaurus It says, All My Friends Are Dead. And then the Uh, the rest of them are like plays on that. Like, I, you know, I don’t remember. It’s like a piece of bologna and it’s like, all my friends are bread and like a bunch, but it’s really funny.

And I thought that it was so funny that I had the cover. No, I didn’t. My sister had the. The cover made into a t shirt for 

Todd: me. Oh, nice! Because I just thought it was so funny! Well, it is hilarious. That sad brontosaurus, All my friends are dead. Ha ha ha 

Craig: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And, and I thought, Surely, surely, This can’t be a film adaptation of that book.

And it’s not. No, it’s not. There’s also a new movie in pre production in America called All My Friends Are Dead. Oh. And when I read the description of it, it doesn’t sound like it’s connected to this movie at all, but it’s a similar thing. It’s like a group of friends all get together to go to a concert until they start getting picked off one by one.

Okay, like you said, like every slasher movie ever, but it’s gonna, uh, they just cast Jojo Siwa in it. Oh, really? Um, that was the only Who is that? I don’t know. Oh my, well, she’s She’s a huge teen pop star. Like, yeah, she’s huge. Especially with, like, tween 

Todd: girls. Oh. Well, I’m not a tween girl, to be fair. And I haven’t been living in the 

Craig: U.

S. for two years. I know, JoJo Siwa 

Todd: was. Oh, okay, so that sounds stupid. That’s like me asking, like, who’s this Britney Spears I’ve been to? Right. 

Craig: Kind of. I mean, she’s not that big, but she definitely has a really, really Like, rabid fanbase of tween girls. She started out as a little girl on the show Dance Moms.

Do you know what that is? I’ve, I’ve heard of it, yeah. She started out on that, and she’s a very talented young lady. She’s very talented. Now she’s an adult, a young adult. She has come out as queer. She’s still very successful. She did Dancing with the Stars and has done a whole bunch of stuff that’s entirely irrelevant to this movie.

Um, so In 2020, a movie came out called All My 

Todd: Friends Are Dead. Thanks for keeping us on topic, Craig.

I, I have to say, like, uh, I was at first very intimidated by this movie because I could tell that we were going to have a lot of characters to keep track of. Oh my god. Thankfully, I think the movie did a pretty good job of keeping things sorted. Like, people didn’t look like each other. People were kind of in their Different zones of the house for most of the time and it was almost like they were interacting as clumps until you know they didn’t anymore so that doesn’t really concern anybody but two guys who are trying to do a podcast and who need to take notes and remember everyone’s names and the fact that these names are Polish.

I don’t know if they Ameri Did they Americanize the names? Yes, 

Craig: they did. So we may be calling them different things. 

Todd: It would have been easy to do, because like there’s Oliwia, Oliwia, which is like probably Olivia. There’s Filip, which is Philip. Anastasia. I think probably half of our names come from Polish anyway, so.

Honestly, 

Craig: had, had I had more time, and I do, I, you know, I’m on Uh, Christmas break from school. I have all the time in the world, but I’m just playing video games and sleeping. 

Todd: Well, good for you. Why not? It’s your break. 

Craig: Right. Um, I I did have time. I I wish I would’ve watched it again. Because watching it the first time in the first half hour, uh, maybe even a little bit more, I was like, uh, there’s so many people.

Yeah. And I like, and I’m frantically trying to, you know, like, I’m glad that people probably don’t understand. How we how I watch these movies because I don’t I only watch movies like this in podcasts if I was for the podcast If I was just watching this movie by myself, I don’t care what their names are No cares like that guy, whatever who cares but I know I’m gonna have to talk about it later.

So I’m like Like I’m desperate like I’m paying Bird’s eye attention, like, somebody say his name. Somebody say his name so I know who it is. And sometimes I have to put in, like, place fillers, like, uh, brunette, long haired girl. And then try to go back and fill it in when somebody finally does say their names.

And so I was frustrated by that for like the first half hour. And once I got over that, and once I kind of Cause ultimately, you’re right, they’re really not all that hard to keep track of. There are a lot of them. Um, but they’re not all that hard to keep track of. So by the second half, I was far more into it.

I, I watched it in two sittings. Sat down and watched the first half. Said to Alan, Ugh, spoiler alert, it’s a stupid movie. 

Todd: Wow. Early 

Craig: judgment there. And then I sat down. The next day and watch the second half and said to him afterwards, I actually liked the second half. Like I got into it. So I think if I were to watch it again, I might be able to just sit back and relax and enjoy it from beginning to end.

Yeah. Well. All 

Todd: those names and all those people and it’s kind of part of the appeal because it’s, it’s a bit of a high concept and I think it’s very clever that it doesn’t kick off with the party. The movie kicks off with a bit of a wraparound. We’re in present day, it’s New Year’s Day, it’s at a house after some crime and there’s a detective on the scene, I think his name was Gregor, well Who cares, it doesn’t 

Craig: matter.

Todd: This was kind of funny. I thought that, what was great about this movie is it is very much a dark comedy. They took every opportunity to inject some humor in there. But not to the point where it was distracting or it was dumb. I actually think most of it was pretty fun and pretty clever. Yeah. This guy’s new on the scene, and then the old grizzled detective, you know, who’s his new partner, comes up.

They’re going through the house together, and this house was the scene of a party for New Year’s Eve. And every single person in there is dead. Everybody? 

Craig: We’re talking, like, 50 people? 

Todd: The detective says double digits, something about double digits, and I was like, oh my god. And, and I think I read afterwards, online, or in the, the trivia, there’s only 19.

But that’s a hell of a lot of bodies 

Craig: to have to explain. It looks like, oh, yeah, a lot. And it looks like more. Like, imagine a house party, full of people, and they’re all just dead on the floor. And not just 

Todd: Not just like somebody came in and gunned them all down either, there’s somebody hanging, there’s somebody tied up on a bed, there’s like people like crashed on the piano, there’s people, I mean, there’s all these different methods of murder or death that have taken place in this house.

That it’s great because you watch this and you’re like, Oh my goodness. So the story is we’re going to unpack this. We’re going to see how this all took place. 

Craig: Right. And that’s a great lead in because you’re like, what’s no way. What? Unless like, that’s the thing. Unless somebody came in with a machine gun, like it just doesn’t make.

Any sense and and there are all kinds of people. Most of them are teenagers or I don’t know, 20 something. Are they supposed to be 

Todd: 20 somethings? I guess. Yeah, that’s what I would 

Craig: think. There’s one like older woman and like the older detective like leans down and Takes off her necklace and gives it to the younger detective.

He’s like, oh yeah, evidence. And he’s like, no, my wife’s going to love this. Yeah, silly little things. And then there was one thing that I, they’re just looking around and it doesn’t, it’s inconsequential really, except for the fact that when they walk into one room, maybe it’s where the pizza delivery guy is hanging.

And you can tell he’s a police. He’s. In a uniform. Mm hmm. The young cop sees it and barfs. I think this is before they’ve seen the room full of bodies. Yeah. Um, this is the first body they come upon. It’s in the bathroom and he kneels down at the toilet and throws up. And the guy hands him some toilet paper and he wipes his mouth with it and flushes it down the toilet.

And then he’s like, Hey, wait, where’d you get that paper? I hope it wasn’t important. And I’m like, Well, obviously! Uh huh. Ha 

Todd: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! 

Craig: Little things like that, like, that’s just briefly mentioned in the first, like, three minutes. By the time that it came back up in the last three minutes, Oh God. I had forgot, I had forgotten about 

Todd: it.

There are, there are payoffs for everything in here. Actually, I think this movie’s very, very clever, and we’ll talk about it later, because once you start thinking about it, there’s some things inserted in here, there’s some thematic elements and stuff that are, that are interesting. Some things I had to kind of read about online afterwards because I wasn’t absolutely certain and I needed some clarification on, but The writer director, uh, I don’t know if it’s Jan or Jan or something like that, Belci Oh, Belci, I don’t even know how to pronounce these Polish names!

There are no vowels and it’s all consonants smashed together But it’s like Jan Belcil or something like that, um, from Slovenia uh, moved to Warsaw in 2015 and uh Uh, he was a first time writer director, I think, on this one. He had just, uh, created a TV miniseries before this, which had five episodes, so. He put a second movie together called Girls to Buy, which is after this one, which sounds like more of a drama about prostitutes.

Doesn’t have anything in the works, at least as far as IMDb goes, but I think, um, this is a very great first feature for any up and coming director, because the writing is smart, it’s, it’s very Like you said, like, the first half to three quarters, really, of this movie is just shenanigans at a party. We’ve seen so many teen party movies, shenanigans happening, things like that.

It’s really hard, maybe, to keep that fresh and interesting. And there were moments early on in this movie where I thought I was gonna get bored. Because I don’t necessarily When you sit down to watch a horror movie, you’re not really that interested and In so much character development. It’s so funny, like, we say these things back and forth.

It’s like, too much character development. Not enough character development. Right? In this case, after I’d seen the movie for about 20 minutes, I was like, you know what? This film has done an excellent job of developing these characters through funny dialogue, through witty and interesting interactions that I felt were not So cliche, you know, they were still kind of 

Craig: fresh.

They’re relatively flat, like, but everybody at least has a distinctive person characteristic and it’s not just stereotypes. I mean, it is, there are stereotypes. What I was going to say before is. I think the movie is incredibly well written because the relationships between the characters are intricate.

It is a spider’s web of relationships. And, and that’s essential. To the plot. Without this spiderweb of interlaced relationships, the plot wouldn’t happen, because it’s a Rube Goldberg contrivance of a series of events that are dependent on it. Upon these relationships. Yeah, like any it’s it’s it’s American pie basically, and that it’s a bunch of teenagers 20 somethings humping and drinking and doing drugs and playing guitar and dancing and flirting and cheating and boyfriending and girlfriending and Proposing it.

Yeah, it’s all of that American pie type comedy stuff But then, through a series of events, They all start getting killed. But the other thing is that it’s also more creative than our typical fare, Because it is not a slasher. Yeah. Most, I, oh my gosh, I’m racking my brain. Most of the deaths in this movie, Keep in mind, we just told you, they all f ing die.

Yeah. Most of the deaths in this movie, 

Todd: Yeah, at least it starts out that way. It becomes carelessness, accident, things like that. And it’s funny because the one person who seems to take action to actually want to murder somebody in this movie Ends up f ing instead. 

Craig: Oh god. So crazy. Like, I, I We’re just so smart.

I loved it. Well, it was crazy at the end. We’re, we’re jumping ahead of ourselves. There’s like this huge climax Oh god. Like this violent violent climax. But in the midst of it, there is also the raunchiest sex scene that we’ve seen yet. Like, there has been there has been sex, like So much sex happening throughout this whole movie.

But for the most part, everybody like has their clothes on. Yeah. Which, which makes sense. You’re at a party. Like, you know, anybody could walk in any time. Right. You usually don’t strip nude as you might in your home, but these folks in the end do, and damn. Seriously, that’s the end, and I don’t want to jump to the end, but at the same time, what can we do?

There are a thousand characters, and it is so heavily plotted. Yeah. I guess we should just kind of start with the inciting incident. Like, there’s all these characters, they’re mostly twenty somethings. They’re in various stages of relationships, um, but this one girl who kind of seemed like she was going to be the main girl, she’s the girl on the cover art, she’s got like stickers on her face.

Yeah, 

Todd: like glitter, I think, like, this is a thing, yeah, the little glittery, uh, 

Craig: And she’s got a boyfriend, but there’s this photographer guy, and she happens to see that he’s been taking pictures of all night. She, you know, gets her hands on his camera or whatever. So she’s, and her boyfriend’s a douche, and so she starts flirting with him, and they end up in, like, a library or something.

She’s also, like, an as Astrologist, like she’s very into like astrology and stuff and she has this whole conversation about like stars aligning and the universe, you know, everything, everything happens for a reason and fate 

Todd: and star signs. She tries to guess the Philip, I think it’s name is Philip is the photographer’s name.

She tries to guess his star sign and then tell him all about himself and she does and she’s startlingly accurate. And then he turns around and this was, this was clever too. He took, cause I know this is all bullshit personally. I I’m sorry if you believe it, but it’s bullshit. Anyway, he turns around. 

Craig: Okay.

It’s my turn now. Uh, here, open your hand up for me. You have a palm and five fingers stop. No, this hand belongs to someone who’s stubborn. Also an air sign and fiercely individual, but intensely loyal. You’re very. Not very patient and kind of intolerant. Oh. What? Here, on the lifeline, there’s some kind of darkness.

Upheaval that impacted your life choices. And the X’s right here? They say that you were hurt. A friend or lover betrayed your trust. You have Aquarius’s sensual lips.

How did you know all that? I’m psychic. You know, the age of Aquarius is the air sign of fantasy. A blissful liberation. Of desire between Libra and Aquarius that knows no bounds. I believe it. Mm-Hmm, . It’s too bad In a parallel universe where we’re both single, who knows what could happen. I know 

Todd: later on in the movie, they’re in the midst of chaos.

She’s like, I told you all the stars are lining. This is, this was the faded. This is gonna happen. And he says, no, they’re not. She’s like, but you read me. You knew my, you knew my stuff. He’s like, it was bullshit. And he lists off all the ways that he basically did a cold reading on her. He is like. Aries, because Aries is the most I just guessed Aries, because that’s like my mom’s star sign, it’s the only one I knew.

Craig: Oh my god, you saying that out loud now connects to something else later. Mm hmm, yeah. 

Todd: That’s so funny. Yeah, and then, and then like, you know, he tells her, and then I just knew that most girls are like this, and most people like this, and like, whatever it is, like, I just guessed all that stuff, I don’t know anything about 

Craig: you.

I feel like we’re gonna have to fly through all of this because there’s so much. So anyway, she takes him off to like a library and she’s flirting with him and like super super flirting with him. Oh my god, I remember being in college. I remember being like that like 

Todd: being 

Craig: in those scenarios where like it’s hyper sexual and it’s like, Lillie won’t we?

I don’t know. But anyway, like she finds a key. To something, and it turns out to be, like, to a gun safe, or a gun box or something. She pulls out a gun, and she’s like, she’s swinging it around, pointing at him, and he keeps saying, don’t point it at me! Ugh. I’m like a dumbass. These things, this is a dark comedy, so I’ll allow it.

But these things make me so uncomfortable because people honestly just don’t understand how powerful guns are and they’re, they’re nothing to be messed with. Young people out there, if you’re ever at a party and you’re drunk and you find somebody’s gun, don’t touch it. Don’t touch it. Leave it where it is.

Don’t even touch it. Leave it alone. 

Todd: People have seen too many movies too and they just swing guns around like it’s nothing, like Oh my God, a gun can go off and yes, then someone is dead. It is just, you just don’t play around with it. Definitely not like this girl is, and definitely not like the girls later are just like spinning it around their finger.

I know, like the Cowboys in a movie. I was on the edge of my seat just because of that 

Craig: I know. Well, and, and I mean, like I said, it’s a dark. Comedy, what we’re talking about is ultimately what happens. Like she’s mes he’s going to show her how to shoot it. But instead, as he’s like helping her aim with her other hand, she’s reaching into his pants and jerking him off.

And then they start banging on the desk and she’s just waving the gun around. 

Todd: Yeah, she just got it over her head while she’s laying down and just waving the gun around like, drop that thing. Well, don’t drop it actually. No, don’t! S 

Craig: like, stop having sex, put the gun safely away and resume. This is, uh, What we’re talking about is exactly what happens.

The, uh, host of the party hears them, and yeah, Merit, whatever, he’s this doofy looking, well, I mean, he’s a good looking guy, but he’s supposed to be kind of a butthead, I guess, I don’t know, whatever. I 

Todd: don’t know, I thought he came across, like, at first I thought, okay, this is the butthead guy, but then He’s a little charming, and then you kind of think about, maybe he’s not that bad, 

Craig: you know, but, uh.

No, I, we, we barely get to know him at all. No, sadly. He, he does stiff, uh, the pizza guy. That’s true. Which wasn’t very nice. But, he just peeks in, cause he hears somebody banging, and they get startled, and he slams the door, and she pulls the trigger, and shoots him in the f Head blood splatters on the painting behind him and he falls dead and he’s dead and that sets off a series 

Todd: of events, right?

But not quickly 

Craig: everyone dies. No, not necessarily. Now, I don’t even understand. Now, what is this? Philip or Philippe or whatever thinking is like intent on hiding the body. So now it becomes a hide the body farce for about. Ten minutes 

Todd: more than that, but yeah, I mean it’s ten minutes because it keeps coming back Like this is the thing like the party stops for a minute because they hear a noise and then they all start up again So like where we know that nobody really heard what was going on Nobody really cares only this couple knows what happened and even at first She, and I think her name is Anastasia, She at first doesn’t realize he’s dead, because Phillip is like, Oh, he’s sleeping, haha, kind of drags him off, he’s jokey meric or whatever.

And she’s 

Craig: not quite sure. Uh, I think she knows. She knows it’s the other girl, Olivia, who is Daniel or he’s, they’re all like interrelated. This, this girl, Olivia comes, he happens to be the sister of another character. Daniel, who is engaged or no, is, is proposing to Angelica. I swear to God, so many characters.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter. A girl comes in and he’s like, No, she’s, he’s just asleep. And she’s like, isn’t that blood on the floor? And he’s like, no, it’s ketchup. And she’s like, I think it’s blood. And he grabs a piece of pizza off the floor? And dips it in the blood and eats it? Oh god, that was so gross. And says, Mmm, ketchup.

Todd: By the way, did you know, I don’t know, because it’s not common in the States, but did you know that it’s very common, at least in Asia, to put ketchup on your pizza? No. Pizza I order here is like, uh, it comes with ketchup packets. Yeah. Ketchup’s 

Craig: delicious on pizza. Really? Sometimes, yeah, sometimes Alan and I make cheeseburger, like bacon cheeseburger pizza and we just mix ketchup and mustard for the 

Todd: sauce.

Oh, that’s good. Okay, yeah, 

Craig: well. Or, or, just on a regular pizza, just like put a little bit of ketchup on top before you bake it and then it caramelizes. 

Todd: Now I think you’re weird, but that’s okay. You want to know a secret? You want to know a secret thing though, just so to even things out. In Japan, it’s common to put mayonnaise on pizza.

Mayonnaise on pizza is also fucking delicious. Really? 

Craig: I’ve not tried that. Like, like, just shmear it on a slice? Like, 

Todd: they literally, like, have bottles for squirting mayonnaise on things. Like, they’ll put mayonnaise on rice and things like that and it’ll look streaks, you know. But, I found the best way is, yeah, like, mix it in with the cheese a little bit so you don’t even really know it’s there.

But it adds this, like, tanginess to that cheese in there. 

Craig: Oh, like before 

Todd: you bake it? Well, that’s what I do. That’s not what they do in Japan. They literally just squirt it over it after the fact. Yeah, I was 

Craig: gonna say, like, if you bake it, doesn’t it just kind of turn into oil? Welcome to our cooking 

Todd: show!

I’m telling you, try it next time. Either squirt it over the top, which is also delicious, or do what I do and put it in and cook it with it. Either way, you get this really great kind of tangy flavor that is just Awesome. 

Craig: Is the mayonnaise in China the same as it is in America? Because one of the cooking ladies that I watch on, you know, on, uh, Facebook always uses Kewpie mayonnaise.

Yeah, it’s 

Todd: Japanese. It’s Japanese and, and, but yeah, it tastes different. But it’s kind of like, in America you’ve got like mayonnaise and you have like Miracle Whip, right? They both have very distinct flavors. I’d say Kewpie mayonnaise is a little closer to Miracle Whip in that it’s a little sweeter. 

Craig: That was fascinating.

What were we 

Todd: talking about? The blood of the people. Ketchup! Ketchup! He drags the body into a room, then the girl comes in, and they hide the body in the closet, Angelica comes in, she’s freaking out, they get under the bed because two, three other people come in. Yes! This is 

Craig: my favorite part of the whole movie.

This is great. 

Todd: My favorite part of the movie. Oh, it’s fantastic. You’re right. There’s a Mormon missionary, Merrick, By the way, we do get introduced to everybody else, sort of at the beginning, because as Daniel and, uh, and Angelica, I think, come into the party at the very beginning, Merrick kind of like gives them a tour and tells them a little bit about everybody.

And this is where, by the way, having subtitles is really handy, because you can just type it in. Um, but also, but, but he mentions, oh, and this guy, he’s just a missionary that, a Mormon missionary that showed up at my door and I invited to the party and his partner didn’t want to come. Yes. He ended up coming, and Jacques?

Is going, starting to go crazy, uh, as he gets more and more drunk, but he’s also feeling guilty 

Craig: about it. Somebody gives him, it’s a beverage, somebody gives him like a bottle to drink from, and in my subtitles, it said, like it, it translated the bottle and it said that it was a hallucinogenic. Drink. Oh, I don’t know, uh, what it was, but it’s, it said hallucinogenic, which makes sense because he hallucinates then throughout the rest of the movie.

Right. Who does he get dragged in there by first? The twins. The slutty twins? Yes. It’s 

Todd: first The slutty twins. Yes, because they’re the ones who are dancing on him. God, I. Man, when I was in college, I wish I had slutty twins like this at a party. They just seem like a lot of fun. 

Craig: Oh my god, they are so horny.

They are the horniest girls that have ever lived. And they get this missionary in there and he, like, he’s trying to resist, but these girls are not gonna take no for an answer. Um, the dead body and Philip are just like Hiding it on the corner of the, and the girl too, 

Todd: I think the girl they’re hiding underneath the bed for a minute.

The body kind of falls out of the closet, but they don’t really, they’re like kind of looked down like, Oh, look another person. I don’t know. They, for a while, this body is kind of there out in the open, but I think either people just assume he’s passed out or whatever. And. And they don’t really 

Craig: What’s so funny to me is that these girls just ravage this boy.

Like, they are, they are taking turns on him. Like, it is nuts. Um, and he had tried to resist and talk about, you know, like, no. We believe that sex is for marriage only and I don’t know, but he is getting laid and it keeps happening. That’s what’s so funny. Like women, it’s so stupid. Women just can’t keep their hands off this guy.

That’s right. And he just keeps finding himself getting grabbed by gorgeous women and thrown on beds and RIDDEN. 

Todd: RIDDEN! RIDDEN. And so then he starts hallucinating Jesus. 

Craig: And then Jesus is there for the rest of the movie, which I also thought was hilarious. Oh, it was 

Todd: so great. Like, at one point, so the girls leave.

And he’s feeling guilty, he sits down and kneels in front of the door and he prays to this crucifix. It might be another room by then, I can’t remember. Anyway, he’s praying to this crucifix that’s hanging over the door, and at this point, the MILF jumps in. Now this is another woman who’s central to the plot, her name was, um, I love her, 

Craig: Gloria.

She was my favorite. Yeah, at one point she dances for a long time to, I don’t know who it is, is it Blondie? Gloria? But the song from the 80s, and it’s great. It’s a great dance song. 

Todd: It’s my song! 

Craig: And yeah, so she’s like the MILF who shows up with Some guy, I don’t know, whatever, but she makes it very clear from the very beginning in that introductory package.

He’s like, Hey, this is my girlfriend. She’s like, no, no, no, no, I’m not his girlfriend. We’re just friends, you know, we’ve been hanging out or whatever. And she’s insistent about it, but she is very attractive. She’s probably what our age. 

Todd: Yeah, we’re milf age. Are we? Yeah, 

Craig: she’s, she’s very beautiful, but she’s also incredibly out of place in this.

I mean, she doesn’t act like it and nobody else acts like it either, like she’s just having a good time and everybody’s 

Todd: down. There’s a whole sequence at the beginning where it’s like guy after guy are having these little mini conversations about her, which is making, you know, her date there nervous because he is taking this relationship completely seriously.

And she is absolutely like, no, no, no, this is just fun. And at one point, she has to take him out to the outside because he’s pissed because She’s just been in with somebody, but they haven’t actually done anything. It’s the Dumb and Dumber twins. 

Craig: I know exactly where you’re going. Right, like, she had, she, the Dumb and Dumber guys, there are these two guys who are always trying to hook up with girls and do The dorky guys trying 

Todd: to get 

Craig: laid.

Right, and like, they want to have a threesome with her or whatever. And she just messes with them. She makes them, like, dry hump each other and stuff with the promise of hooking up with her. But, she gets caught by her Quote unquote boyfriend, Pawel, and he takes her outside so that they, she, he can profess his undying love and then She gives what I thought was a very poignant and well written monologue.

Todd: Yes! She just lays it out for him in the best way. What 

Craig: are you so scared of? You think I’m in over my head and if I end up getting hurt you’ll have yourself to blame? Do you really think that with a 17 year age gap you’re the one most likely to get hurt? Right now, dating an older woman is fantastic. I’m the MILF that all your friends envy.

Yes! The best sex of your life. That’s because I have a lot more experience than those girls in there. Seventeen years, to be precise. But that doesn’t matter. You brag about it, Pavel. Love isn’t bragging. I love and respect you. I brag about us. There is no us. You wanna have kids? Of course. Very much.

Wonderful. If we’re lucky, in nine months or so, we’ll have a son who we’ll name, pfft, Chris. And we’ll be one happy family, sleepless nights, changing, feeding, soothing him, but we’ll survive. And eight years from now, you’ll hit your thirties, and I’ll be past fifty. My boobs will sag and swell. I’ll find more wrinkles and gray hairs every single day.

Not quite the MILF anymore. You get yourself a tasty little side piece named Kasia, who rocks your world. You travel for work all the time, your kid misses you all the time, and I cover for your filthy little lies all the time. My self esteem goes out the window with my looks and my husband. When you do manage to come home, we fight constantly about every little thing.

The kid hears it, he thinks I’m evil. He thinks I’m being mean to his Perfect little daddy, Kasia never has to deal with any of the shit. She’s always in a good mood. So you decide to go and live with her and take our kid along for the move because he thinks I’m a bad mother and the blame for that will be online.

And only a woman of her age. And I speak as a man of her age would understand. She is preaching. She is telling us the honest to God truth. She was great. Yeah, I, you know, it’s the same thing, like, I’m no milf, but if I were the equivalent of that and could pull like young hot guys and was single I would know.

Like, no, this isn’t a relationship thing. Like, I’m old enough to be your dad. It may be fun for a little while, but it’s not gonna work out. Here’s why. It’s even more complicated, I think, in a heterosexual relationship, which she makes clear. And then You find out later that she’s telling her own story. Uh huh.

Basically, she just doesn’t want a repeat of what her life has already been. Which is, uh, you know, getting with a guy based on being good looking and, you know, they’re in love or whatever and then she has a kid and then he finds somebody younger and cuter and less complicated and goes off with him and she, and takes the kid and blah, blah, blah.

Great monologue. Yeah. 

Todd: When then later, we find out that she’s Phillip’s mom. That came out of nowhere. That was 

Craig: the big reveal. I did not see that coming anywhere. Because Phillip, who is the guy who’s trying to cover up Merrick’s body. He’s also, at this point, accidentally killed Olivia too. That’s right.

Todd: Cause she just like, 

Craig: she just had a Indescrib I have no idea what, like, he’s just covering her mouth to keep her from screaming, to keep her quiet. And all of a sudden she starts seizing and foaming at the mouth. And she 

Todd: pulls out, like, what I guess is like an EpiPen, right? But it finally falls on the floor, and then he notices it later and tries to stab it into her, but it’s too late, she’s dead, and he’s crying.

Actually, I thought this was Is she 

Craig: allergic to hands? I don’t understand. 

Todd: Maybe it’s I don’t know. I don’t know what all the different afflictions you can have if you’re What’s the word? Epileptic or whatever? I don’t know. I don’t know how that stuff works, but Yeah, good question. It’s not epilepsy. That’s not what EpiPens are for.

What is it? There’s a certain condition where you just get seizures sometimes, right? That’s true. There are lots of seizure 

Craig: disorders, but EpiPens are for allergic 

Todd: reactions. Are they only, though? I think so. There’s other drugs. Welcome to our medical podcast. We were much better at cooking than we are at medicine, I think.

Yeah. Yeah.

Craig: So he’s already, so this guy, Philip, the photographer, has already killed her too. Not on purpose, but now there’s a couple bodies laying around. And so he has to get out of the room that he’s in. So he wears a bare skin rug. For reasons I don’t understand, is he trying to be incognito? 

Todd: I think so. I think it’s the best thing he can think of to cover himself up so people can’t see who he is.

He also doesn’t 

Craig: have a shirt on. I thought he trying to stay warm 

Todd: as well. Yeah, because he climbs out the window. But 

Craig: people sitting down. In the lawn, think it’s an actual bear, because there are actual bear noises. What? Yeah. 

Todd: Why were there actual 

Craig: bear noises? That’s true. I don’t understand that. But anyway, he sees Gloria having sex with somebody else.

No, it’s the I don’t even remember. The 

Todd: missionary. In her frustration, she runs in the house, and first she’s upset, and then she’s like, Ah. Ah. Forget it, I’m just going to take control of this situation. She goes up, she opens the door, she sees the missionary who was praying to that, um, that crucifix, grabs him and starts banging him on the bed, starts riding him.

And at that moment, the missionary looks up at the crucifix and Jesus winks at him. Yes. 

Craig: He also has, he also has a talk with Jesus at some point where he says, like, I know that, you know, you said we’re not supposed to have sex, but I just had sex with these two girls and it was awesome. So, I’m changing my 

Todd: philosophy.

Please just make me a sex machine. I’m gonna 

Craig: be a sex machine. A sex machine! 

Todd: And it’s like Jesus granted his prayer. It’s hilarious. 

Craig: Oh, it’s, it is so funny. Funny, and he’s just this unassuming guy, like just an average, average guy. And these people can’t keep their hands off of him. Oh, so much else is going on.

Like, honestly, I feel like we are building to the end, which is fine. But if, if you’re interested in this movie. You should watch it because there is so much there’s intrigue It’s this movie is cut so that you’re just seeing like two or three minute scenes jumping from people to people to people to people to people and like at some point Anastasia confesses to her boyfriend that she cheated and so he’s mad at Philip, Philipe, Phillip, whatever his name is and Rofl Who is Gloria’s not boyfriend is now mad at the missionary because he walks in on them banging and Daniel and Angelica Daniel has proposed to Angelica in front of everybody and she has run away and there’s a whole scene where they’re yelling at each other through a door and everybody’s listening and She talks about how the reason that she doesn’t want to marry him a union can only be as strong as weakest link Our weakest link is the sex!

You’re lousy in bed, Daniel! You absolutely suck! Newsflash! I’m bored to death having sex with you! It’s always the same f ing routine! One, two, three thrusts and you’re done! Sweetheart? One position, maybe two, in zero imagination. I started doing a grocery list last time we had sex, but I didn’t even finish that!

Todd: There’s nothing in 

Craig: it for Let me in, everyone out here can hear you! Oh good, let them listen! Are you enjoying this? You getting off on it? Cause that’s more than I get! He can’t even go down on me properly! Angelica, I’m begging you! He’s staring into my eyes, which by the way, if they’re open, means I’m not coming!

You told me watching 

Todd: me turns you on! I lied! You’ve had a thousand orgasms! I have 

Craig: never come! I faked them all! Might as well say a million orgasms, because they never ever existed! Daniel, you’re a nice boy, and you’ll make a great man someday, but I need one now! Right now, and I’m sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I want to enjoy my pussy, not marry one.

Now that’s, that’s, that’s how it was translated for me. Yeah. And that was my favorite line. 

Todd: I want to enjoy 

Craig: my pussy, not marry one. Oh God. That was so funny. And then he’s all upset because. She called him a pussy and he’s outside, like, I’m not a pussy, I’ll show her a pussy and he gets an axe. So 

Todd: this, yeah, this was the point, like, the camera pulls back and you see the silhouette of him and the axe there, and he looks at it, and he picks it up.

And this is when I’m thinking, okay, because, by the way, at this point in the movie, I would have turned it off if I had not seen that opening sequence of everybody being dead. Because I’m not really into this kind of drama type stuff anymore, it’s, To me, there are like 15 different movies, more than that, different movies like this.

But because we know everyone’s dying, I’m just, I’m just waiting to see what’s gonna happen. And I was really thoroughly enjoying myself. When I see this guy pick up the axe, I’m like, Aha! Now we’re gonna get our first, like, premeditated murder. But this 

Craig: guy, but he’s such, like, like From the least likely person.

Exactly. I mean, he seems, he just seems like a really sweet, nice guy. He’s, he’s a good looking guy, but he’s not like a boyish, charming Yeah, yeah. He’s, he’s small, he’s short, like, he’s probably about the same height as his girlfriend, who Also, is, you know, like, not a beauty queen, she’s a, she’s an attractive young lady, but she’s not like a stunner.

She’s the 

Todd: female equivalent, she’s like girl next door, cute, kind of conservatively dressed, you know, whatever. She doesn’t seem like she’s gonna be one of these people running around banging everybody like half the other 

Craig: Right, if it, if it weren’t Polish, I would say they’re an all American couple. Right, yeah.

They’re just young, nice people. But you’re right, so you wouldn’t think that he would be the one, and he’s not. He’s not. 

Todd: That’s what’s so great about the movie. It just kept, it kept flipping things a little bit. And so I thought that was funny. He goes in with the axe, all Jack Nicholson style, and starts breaking down the door.

He’s axing through the door, gets a hold of the door, he jumps in at the same moment where it’s cutting between this and the fight that’s happening in the bedroom upstairs, cause it’s Olivia, Jordan is now in there because he’s pissed because Angelica was cheating on him, had confessed to him that she was cheating, Angelica by the way has holed herself up cause she’s just kinda flippin out.

In the laundry room, yeah. Got her, she’s washing her clothes and she’s sitting on top of the laundry. Um, the clothes washer and it, something’s happened with the clothes washer and water’s starting to come out of it and it’s starting to seep. Into the rest of the, of the rooms downstairs, but nobody seems to be noticing.

Craig: And now I’m thinking, okay. Now I see where this is headed. But yeah, but the, the, the fight upstairs is hilarious because it’s just, people just keep coming in. Like, it starts out with just three people. Rafal, is that his name? I don’t know. comes in because Gloria is writing the missionary, so he starts punching the missionary.

But then Philip comes in through the window and starts punching Rafaal and is like, dude, that’s my mom! And this is the, this is the reveal. Yeah. Like you, you already said it before, but this is the first time that we find out that Gloria is Philippe’s mom. So it’s a very Stifler’s Mom kind of 

Todd: situation.

Exactly. And then Jordan comes in, and then he gets hit, and he’s fighting And 

Craig: he punches, he punches Phillip, because Phillip is the guy that his girlfriend cheated on him with, but then, Phillip’s mom, Gloria, is like, Hey, knock it off, and he punches her! Yeah! He thought that was 

Todd: hilarious! Oh my gosh. He just decks her!

That fight kind of starts coming down the stairs. And then suddenly, where did the guns? Oh, because the twins had the guns. The twins 

Craig: have had the guns the whole time. That’s right. The twins have also been molesting everybody that crosses their path. Yes. Um, there’s, there’s one guy that has been tied up on a bed for basically the whole movie.

That was one of the things, like, ultimately I liked this movie, but it Kind of irritated me a little bit that they introduced us to all these characters, some of which are pretty inconsequential. Like, that guy that ends up getting tied up on the bed, his name is Darius. And he’s supposed to be the world’s biggest womanizer.

And there’s a whole scene early on where some girl that he’s hooked up with comes in and confronts him. And I thought that he was gonna be a huge character and you don’t see him again until he’s tied up and gagged on a bed and he remains there the rest of the time. At some point, do those twins stick a hairbrush up his butt?

Todd: Oh, I don’t know, I didn’t notice that. What? I didn’t notice that. I just What? Did I look away from the screen when that went down? 

Craig: They, they’re like, something about he needs a poke, and uh, one of them picks up, remember those hairbrushes that our sisters had in the 80s that were like Uh, 360 round bristle.

Oh yeah, uh huh. I’m sure women still use them, I don’t know. No women live in my house. Um, but one of them picks it up by the bristles and it’s just holding up the handle and says, This’ll work. And then the other twin grabs the handle and flips it over and says, No, I think this way is better. And the guy’s eyes get really big and then it just zooms in on him and he goes, 

Todd: Oh jeez, I did not remember that.

Wow. 

Craig: Yeah, so there’s all kinds of hijinks going on the big fight the big fight somehow ends up moving downstairs where Just, everybody starts fighting? Well, the girl It’s like accidental punches get thrown 

Todd: and things. Accidental punches get thrown, but the party’s still kind of around them. But what basically happens, I think, is one of the twins jumps on somebody.

Craig: Who then Well, the twins come in, Oh, somebody Oh god, this is funny. The two guys that Gloria had made hump each other, Ever since then have had weird tension, which felt very much to me like sexual tension. Like, I thought those guys were gonna hook up for sure. Um, but the bigger one calls the little one gay or something, and so he runs off.

He ends up finding Merritt’s body, holds it in his arms saying, Oh baby, baby! Uh, I don’t know, like I don’t know if they had a relationship, or if 

Todd: He’s very distressed about this, yeah. 

Craig: Yeah, and, and straight guys don’t typically call each other guys, baby? To my knowledge. Not usually, no. Whatever, anyway. So then he’s like, who did this?

So he comes downstairs, all this craziness is going on. The twins walk in, one of them is spinning the gun on her finger. Oh. So he’s like, gun. My boyfriend was shot in the head. It must have been her. So he picks up A baseball bat? He’s got a baseball bat. Yeah. He came in, he came in swinging. Oh yes. He’s got a baseball bat.

And he hits her with it. And explodes one of her boobs. It explodes. It 

Todd: explodes one of her implants or something. It’s like, it gets red and she says, Oh my god, it’s, it’s exploded. It’s never gonna go back.

Craig: But it’s gross. It’s not just like saline. It’s like blood and flesh that explodes. Oh, it’s disgusting. And then, I don’t know what happens from there. 

Todd: Someone leaps on someone’s back. She’s, I think she leaps on his back. Yes. 

Craig: He’s spinning around. The one with the gun. 

Todd: Yes. And this is, this is the only place where I was like, oh, come on.

Well, I mean, you know, relatively speaking, of course. Because she starts shooting the gun as he’s spinning around, and that’s what ends up taking out at least ten 

Craig: people. A bunch, yeah, a lot. But there’s also still fighting going on. 

Todd: There’s no way that gun holds enough ammo for as many times as it goes off, 

Craig: but Oh, absolutely not.

And people are just getting shot right between the eyes, like it’s, it’s Yeah. Insanity, but there’s also the fighting is still going on and I think Gloria ends up killing her son by accident like she tries to hit somebody else and she accidentally hits him. Yeah, and 

Todd: then what somebody goes to hit somebody else and hits the TV and the TV falls down and just narrow barely misses somebody else to get crushed, but then the TV falls into that water.

So there’s water all over the floor, basically all over the downstairs. And that’s what more or less takes out everybody who by this point isn’t already dead. But this scene 

Craig: is so funny because it’s ridiculous, but it’s hilarious. The 

Todd: music that is, is it Bon Jovi? I can’t remember. Can’t remember what’s playing, what music is playing in the background, but it’s some hard rock.

It’s 

Craig: hair. It’s like hair rock. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. And everybody is convulsing to the beat of the song, including the random dude who’d wandered in earlier to pick up a guitar. He’s still got the guitar in his hand, and so it looks like he’s playing 

Craig: guitar. Yes! And it’s dead on the piano, but his fingers are twitching.

Todd: Oh my gosh, it was so funny. Oh, 

Craig: I thought It’s ridiculous, but it’s so ridiculous that it works. And the other people, as they’re being electrocuted, just look like dumb Dummies from the 80s had used to dance like that. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s like that headbanging or whatever. It is so 

Craig: funny It is really funny By this point when and you can tell when that fight starts up in the bedroom Oh, by the way, we forgot to mention the guy once once.

Oh, yeah the pizza guy Uh, this poor pizza guy’s got all kinds of problems. Uh, his boss is calling him and yelling at him every five minutes. His mother with Alzheimer’s is home alone and is burning her building down. Like, it’s just a nightmare and he eventually decides to hang himself and he does. But also, when Daniel axed his way into the room, he didn’t kill Angelica, they just had the wildest sex ever, and that was one of her complaints, was that he was fast and boring.

And now, they are porn star banging. 

Todd: Yes, on everything, in the room, in every position, while everybody else is dying. 

Craig: And the climax, the climax of them dying, is him pissing on her. This, this movie treats. Golden showers, like they’re a hot, sexy thing. 

Todd: That was the payoff from an earlier line where somebody was mad at somebody else and screamed at him, I I even let you give me a golden shower!

And then she had looked at David and said, You were never giving me a golden shower. And he’s like, I know. 

Craig: But he does, and she likes it just like And the way that it’s shot, like it’s shot between his legs. And we, like I said, we have seen so much. sex before this, but they are naked and he is like, you don’t see his penis.

That’s the only thing that you don’t see, but you just see him. Pissing on her face and tits, like, what? When did I come to this movie? I 

Todd: know, right?

I think I must have switched tabs on my computer. 

Craig: Right. Jeez. But anyway, so everybody gets electrocuted except for this one girl who’s been on Molly the whole time. I don’t know. You just see her dancing. The whole time. She’s the only one who’s like, because she’s dancing on a platform or something, and she doesn’t even realize everybody’s dead.

Anastasia comes out. She was sitting on the dryer, so she was okay, too. She comes out and she finds everybody dead. She sees the gun and she picks it up, and she hears something behind her, and so she immediately just turns and shoots, and ends up shooting That’s right. 

Todd: David and Anastasia, 

Craig: yeah. Like, he’s standing behind her.

Like, he’s got his arms draped over her shoulders. And she shoots through both 

Todd: of them. It’s like she shoots through their hearts. Did you notice that? 

Craig: Yes. Stupid. Stupid. Um, and then I don’t know. I don’t remember what happens. What happens 

Todd: to her? She slips and falls. And so she, cause she ends up being the only person who actually survives this.

She slips and falls and knocks her head. So she’s like kind of paralyzed, I guess. But she’s making groaning noises, and I think she’s the one who, in the very beginning, we see getting pulled out of the, the wreckage. 

Craig: No. No, she’s dead. That’s the Molly girl. It’s the Molly girl? Are you sure? Uh huh. Yes, because she says, I promise I’ll never do drugs again.

Todd: But Anastasia also did drugs, and she’s the one who kind of set it all off. 

Craig: I think it’s the Molly girl, because I don’t think we ever see the Molly girl die. Well, she just 

Todd: kind of falls. I don’t know. I thought maybe she was just dead from dehydration because the whole Well, that could be. Yeah. I thought it was her.

Well, I’d have to go back and check to know for sure, but Who knows? 

Craig: Whatever. It doesn’t matter. She trips and hits her head on a stair or a ledge or whatever. And then, you get A voiceover. Yes. Now, first of all, the music starts playing and it’s the House of the Rising Sun, which is a great song and really well suited to the tone of this ending.

But you get this voiceover, which I only wrote the first part down because I, maybe, if you have time you’ll put it in, I don’t know, but it’s, Chemistry is the study of matter. And you come to find out that This is the suicide note of the pizza guy that he has written on toilet paper before he hangs himself in the bathroom.

And he just talks about how everything is interrelated, and 

Todd: Some things repel each other, some things don’t, everything’s atoms. Are attracted 

Craig: to each other, 

Todd: right. So he’s clearly like, he’s a chemist, he’s like a closet chem, or he’s like studying chemistry or something. 

Craig: But it also is all applicable to the events, you know, like Yes, it’s like a 

Todd: commentary on what just 

Craig: happened.

Everything’s connected, everything’s connected. And he says, uh He got kicked out of school or something, but I did stumble across the cure for Alzheimer’s. So hopefully at least that will be my legacy. 

Todd: Benefit to humanity. I’m leaving it right here and you can see on the note that he’s written these chemical formulas or something.

Yeah. 

Craig: And then it goes back to the cops, and they’re like, looking easily, they’re like, Well, he’s obviously a delivery guy, who knows what happened. No sign of a suicide note, so I guess we’ll never know. That was the toilet paper that the one cop had given to the other to wipe his mouth off after he barfed in the beginning.

Todd: Yeah, so we’ve lost the cure for Alzheimer’s. 

Craig: It’s gone. Yeah, it’s gone. And then Like, okay, the movie’s over, but no, it isn’t because then we attend Angelica and Daniel’s wedding in heaven. If you’re not keeping up with these names, the people that we described as the all Americans, the dirty sexers, um, now we’re at their wedding in heaven, except I don’t think it’s supposed to be heaven.

Todd: Yeah, it’s perhaps, I mean, you could read it however you want because thematically it’s all the same. But this is sort of an alternate reality where they did get married and everybody else kind of got along and like all of these Relationships that were in turmoil were resolved in different ways Yeah, 

Craig: gloria catches the bouquet and reunites with paul And philip takes their picture, like he’s cool with it.

Um, and Merit and Rafal, the two guys make out. Uh, the only ones that don’t work out are Anastasia and Jordan. She’s still bored with him. So instead she pairs up with the pizza guy and she’s like, wait a second. Aren’t you that guy that cured Alzheimer’s? Yeah. That was me. And so she takes him back to the same library that she had taken Philippe to before, and we don’t see this.

We just hear it. She’s like, Hey, what’s this weird key? And then you hear a gunshot again, and then it goes. To credits. Yeah. Like, so like, even in the alternate world, she’s still a dummy. 

Todd: Or even in the alternate world, things are still fated to turn out the same way. It’s weird, but you know, I think it all kind of thematic, this is what I thought was so clever about.

One of the things I thought was so clever about the writing was just how it all wrapped up and how it actually had a theme to it, you know, and had this idea because they talk about star signs and they talk about who’s aligned and who’s not and, you know, the girl saying the stars are aligned. I think the whole concept here is that all these people at this party were sort of cosmically faded to this, but then this alternate reality shows, well, what if it was different?

What if, you know, everybody did kind of get along? And then that, that kind of zinger at the end says, even so they’re still faded to this end, you know, I don’t know, you know, it’s just something to think about. It’s kind of this notion bounced back and forth that just a cute way I thought to wrap up the movie.

That kind of hangs over the whole movie. I just, I just thought it was so clever, the writing was so 

Craig: smart. I liked it because it made it a little less gloomy. Yeah, that’s true. Because those, those characters, I actually liked them. And I, I, I knew they were going to all end up dead. I knew that going in. Um, but I actually came to like them, so it was kind of nice.

Uh, I don’t know if you know this or not, we may have talked about it for all I know, but um, That’s how Heathers was supposed to end too. Oh really? After the end and everybody was dead, there was supposed to be a scene in Heaven with all of the people who had died. Show that they were all in heaven and they ultimately I don’t remember if they filmed it or not but it was definitely scripted and they ended up not doing it and just leaving it bleak and you could have left this bleak but and heathers is a comedy too but this is a comedy and I would rather walk away from it feeling light.

Yeah as opposed to heavy 

Todd: it was proper I think it just it was fitting for the tone of the movie you know the whole movie does not meant to be taken seriously. These horrible things are happening. It’s nice to have this ending that’s a little more uplifting and upbeat. It just rounded out the experience for me and made me enjoy the movie that much more.

I, I, don’t get me wrong, and we’ve talked about this millions of times on the podcast before, bleak endings are great. Yeah. Um, and a lot of times they’re fitting and sometimes it’s annoying when there should be a bleak ending and there’s something happy tacked on. Agreed. You know, it kind of reminded me, um, Do you remember Very Bad Things?

Did you ever see that? Mm mm. That, um, Cameron Diaz, Daniel Stern, there are a whole bunch of stars in it. It was a 90’s movie that I think a lot of people have forgotten about. Because it was just the darkest comedy you’ll ever see. Like, horrible, horrible things are happening that are being made light of.

And that’s how dark comedy works. But at the end of it, you just leave, like, Oh my god, I need to take a shower. It’s, it’s fine. I don’t want to be too critical of it, but my god, like, if this movie had ended how Very Bad Things was ending, and that’s the direction I thought it was going, I know I would have left here just emotionally a little shaken.

You know what I mean? And in this case, like, uh, like we just said, it, it, the balance was just perfect. And not only that But it, again, it, it spoke to the theme that he was going for with the film, which I thought was just supremely 

Craig: clever. Yeah, I thought it was, I, ultimately I walked away from it really satisfied.

Yeah, I said earlier, it’s American Pie. And I think I said that largely because of the mom, the hot mom character, and also because it’s raunchy. But, uh, as far as, like, structure goes, it’s also a lot like that 2000s, uh, uh, teen movie Can’t Hardly Wait. Where it’s a bunch of different characters at a party and interacting, um, at a party.

Gosh, you know, it’s New Year’s Eve, there’s a New Year’s Eve countdown, like, the big finale basically starts at midnight on New Year’s. I really enjoyed it. Again, like I said before, I, it felt a little tedious in the beginning, but I really think that that was just because I was working. Yeah. 

Todd: Like, if you’re 

Craig: just watching it for fun, I don’t think it’ll bother you so much.

No. And the payoff is fun. Ultimately, I thought it was a really fun movie. I know you watched the subtitled one. Good for you, Smarty Pants. Um, but, uh, the dub is, is quite good. It, it, it doesn’t, it’s not off putting. It’s, it doesn’t pull you out. So. If you prefer a dub, it’s perfectly fine. And really, I think this is my favorite one that we watched of the holiday season.

It was a lot of 

Todd: fun. It was the most fun of the ones we watched. I mean, without being just totally bonkers out there, I think my second favorite was definitely the, uh, the crazy killer Samurai movie, but that’s because it was bonkers and a little inept. This one was just a clever, fun, great movie. I mean, it’s, it’s horror, but.

Most of it’s drama, comedy, you know, it’s just kind of all there. But it is bloody. 

Craig: Violent. 

Todd: And it’s also fitting for the year. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the new year and things may seem bleak and stuff, but maybe everything will turn out okay. And, uh, and we gotta have hope and this movie does end on a hopeful kind of note in its own way.

It’s nice. It’s a good thing to do for 2024. 

Craig: Yeah, and again, uh, I’m gonna just jump on the optimism wagon. I know that a lot of people have had a lot of struggles. I know that there’s a lot of conflict in the world. But I’ve had a pretty good year, you know. Friends and family are healthy, um, and, uh, I’m surrounded by people I love.

I’ve got great friends, uh, I’ve got people all over the world writing to us, you know, saying really nice things. Um, it’s, it’s been a good year for me, and I hope it has been for all of you, and whether it has been or not. I hope that 2024 is even better, and I think it can be. 

Todd: You know, my job has been good and stable, and I’m here with family and friends right now.

We’re all able to get together for the first time in a very long time that my sisters and I have been in the same room. I mean, it’s been at least a decade. Uh, and we were all able to get together with my parents for the holidays, so I, I’m going out on 2023 on a great note. 2023 itself has been really positive for me.

So, uh, I just want to say, uh, put it out there, though, that I also feel optimistic personally. It’s gonna be a big year. Whoo! What a time it’s gonna be. So, it’s gonna be an exciting year, if nothing else, uh, and I’m really, I’m really anxious for it, and because I’m a positive, optimistic dude, I’m going to be optimistic, and I’m gonna send my positive energy out there.

Uh, to hope that that has some effect, and I encourage you guys to do the 

Craig: same. Yeah, and we’ll keep trying to bring positivity here, too, so 

Todd: Yes, this is our refuge, you know. We don’t want to be a space of negativity. Ha ha ha ha ha! This is our refuge. This is the moment during the week when we can just sit back and laugh and have a good time no matter what’s happening.

I’d enjoy each other’s company. And so we’re going to make sure the show stays that way as well. Well, uh, thank you so much for all of your messages that you’ve been sending us. Uh, we will get back to those. We can’t wait to see what the new year brings with new listeners and new feedback from you guys, please go to our website, chainsaw horror.

com. Any one of our social media channels. Our link to it from there, you can just Google Two Guys and Chainsaw Podcast. Leave us a note, let us know what you’re, uh, planning for 2024, your outlook on everything, the movies that you would like us to see doing in this next year. We’ve got a theme month coming up in February that was chosen by our patrons that we’re very excited about.

Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast if you’re interested in getting in on that action. Um, on our website there’s a link for you to leave us a voice message. And next week we’re gonna be looking at another voice message. We just love hearing your voices as much as your text. And we do listen to and respond to every single one of those.

So thank you guys so much for your support over these years and for the year to come until next time I’m Todd, and I’m Craig, with two guys and a chainsaw.

It’s A Wonderful Knife takes the prize as the best Christmas horror movie title of the decade. Too bad the actual movie couldn’t live up to it.

Man, we really REALLY wanted to love this film. The title, the concept, the trailers, the writer, and even some of our favorite horror actors involved (Justin Long!) had us looking forward to settling down to a nice holiday treat for horror fans. But ultimately we felt it was a bit disappointing. Listen and find out why! Merry Christmas to all our loyal listeners. We are thankful you’re around.

It’s A Wonderful Knife (2023)

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Merry Christmas, Craig. 

Craig: Merry Christmas, Todd. 

Todd: What a nice year it is. What a great, uneven year for horror movies this month. Ha, ha, ha. We’ve, uh, we’ve had a couple, uh, kinda, uh, ones in the beginning. And then, or last week, I was pretty happy with it.

Even though it was one of those, it’s just so dumb, it was fun movies. Right. This one, I had really high hopes for. We decided to go super modern and choose It’s a Wonderful Knife, which just came out on the streaming services. Did it make it to theaters?

Craig: Yeah, uh, it was in theaters for just, uh, a few weeks maybe, and, and then it released to Shudder and AMC Plus.

Todd: And this has the best title I’ve maybe ever seen.

Craig: I can’t believe, I can’t believe it took somebody this long to come up with that. Right? 

Todd: I know, that’s actually kind of surprising. And just like the classic Frank Capra movie starring Jimmy Stewart, uh, which I’ve, I admit to have only seen once. I don’t have the love affair with it that everybody else does, but I know what it’s about, and I do, I did see it a long, long time ago.

It’s a wonderful life. This kind of cops that. It’s, uh, basically taking a horror angle on the idea of a person who is, uh, just kind of wishes that they were never born, and then, suddenly, they’re magically whisked to an alternate dimension where they were never born, and they see how life had played out without them around.

Except in this case, it’s in the context of a girl who, uh, just killed a murderer or a slasher. Yeah, I really, really was really looking forward to this movie. I sat down, I got cozy and Christmassy, and I, I saw that it had, seemed to have pretty decent reviews. Uh huh. Man, I really wanted to like this movie a lot better than I did.

I was just, I think I just had high expectations for 

Craig: it. Yeah.

I had really high hopes for it too, and I had read good things about it. The reviews on Shudder are really positive and it’s got four out of five stars on Shudder and I was really looking forward to it and I, I was even able to talk Alan into watching it with me. I was like, it’s, it’s a horror comedy.

It’s got good people in it. It’s based on it’s a wonderful life, which confession I’ve never seen. I really don’t have any interest in yeah, 

Todd: honestly, I think the only reason that movie is as popular as it is, if I’m not mistaken, I think it slipped into public domain and that became like one of the one of the television networks.

I mean, we’re talking back in the seventies, eighties or whatever. Would play it and it kind of became a holiday tradition Right 

Craig: and I get that but I missed out on it and I don’t need to join the bandwagon now like no you don’t I know I know what it was about. I’ve seen all the iconic clips You know every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings and the running down the street I’ve seen all the iconic clips, but it’s it’s also long if I remember correctly.

Yeah It’s a 

Todd: bit long. Just not into it. Also, it’s black and white, you know? 

Craig: Black and white doesn’t bother me so much, but, Jimmy Stewart, like, I get it, he was a big star, he kinda gets on my nerves the way he talks. 

Todd: You know what? I think you’re right. He’s either a love it or a hate it kind of person. Like, either he gets on your nerves cause he’s got a one shtick kind of thing.

He’s got that weird Why are you talking to me, it’s just 

Craig: my turn. Hehehehehehe Not into it. 

Todd: Or you’re like me, and I actually really love him, and I will watch a movie just because he’s in it. Because, I don’t know, that doesn’t bother me, I actually kinda, it’s kind of comfort food. For me to watch 

Craig: a Jimmy Stewart movie, I could see how it could be charming.

I could, I understand. It doesn’t work for me, so I’ve never seen it, but I know the premise and I actually do think that this is a very, very clever premise for Yes. A horror movie. It’s, it’s an excellent setup. You know, it’s the same setup as it’s a wonderful life where this person, you know. Feeling gloomy wishes that they had never been born and then they get their wish and then they see what life would be like and I think that there are some clever things going on in the movie too that I want to talk about because I’ll probably forget if I don’t just say it now.

One of the things that I thought was clever was that she also finds out that the fact that she didn’t exist wasn’t so bad for some people. Yes. 

Todd: And I thought that, I thought that 

Craig: was clever. Uh huh. You know, for some people, maybe it would be better if you didn’t exist. Who, who knows? Right. So I thought that was clever, but something about it just fell flat.

Some of the The writing, some of the dialogue, I literally was like, uh, like, oh my, did you really just say that? Oh my God. 

Todd: Well, we just reviewed, um, I mean, this is, this is directed by Tyler McIntyre, who was a writer of five nights at Freddy’s now writing and directing are two different things. But I almost was like, yeah, that tracks what I was watching this.

And the writer, Michael Kennedy, he’s only written a couple other things, um, one 

Craig: in 2020 called Freaky? Yeah. Oh, that’s good. We should do that sometime. That is great. That is a great movie. I loved that movie. I loved it. It looked interesting. 

Todd: I saw the trailer, it 

Craig: looked good. Well, it’s just like, you know, like, as this is a riff on It’s a Wonderful Life, Freaky is a riff on Freaky Friday, except a teenage girl switches bodies with A giant serial killer.

Oh, that is 

Todd: hilarious. It 

Craig: is hilarious. And, oh god, it’s Vince Vaughn. Vince Vaughn is the serial killer. And so for 75 percent of the movie, he’s playing a man who is a teenage girl on the inside. So, Vince Vaughn playing a teenage girl, it’s hilarious. That would be fun. Hilarious. 

Todd: I wish I had seen that. I mean, another high concept movie, it sounds, by the way you describe it, sounds a lot more satisfying 

Craig: than this.

Yeah, you know, the thing is, I want to say right off the bat, I don’t hate this movie, I still think it’s clever, and it’s Got its fun moments. And it’s got good people in it. Yeah. But unfortunately, all of those things just don’t add up to something that’s great. And there are parts about it that I, uh, that really bother me, but we should probably get into it.

Because I took far too many notes. Oh my god. Uh, me too. Why do I do this to myself? Uh, okay, so it opens up with Justin Long. Justin Long! We like Justin Long! Yes! He’s been in lots of horror, well, several that we’ve done. He’s great! Mm hmm. And I was excited to see him. He’s He looks weird. He’s wearing like a flipper.

Like he’s wearing like these weird fake teeth and he’s all spray tan. And that’s because he’s a douche bag. And you find out very early on that he is the villain of the movie, but he’s opening like Some big center, like some big building in his little town of Angel Falls. His name, his last name is Waters.

And it’s gonna be Waters Cove. And, and it opens up with a Yeah, he’s the mayor. And so then we meet Joel McHale’s family. Joel McHale! Joel McHale’s hilarious! Like, right? Like, okay, great! We’ve got good people in this movie. And his name is David. He’s got these kids, Winnie and Jimmy. Jimmy is The popular quarterback in this small town, the second I saw him, I said, that kid’s gay.

Yeah. 

Todd: The gaydar was 

Craig: scared. Not because he was like, flamboyant or anything, I was like, gay. That, that, I turned out like, hey, that, that kid, he’s gay. And you find out immediately that he is, and everybody’s just cool with it, because, 

Clip: in 

Craig: the world of this movie, everybody is gay. I have that in my notes, like in all caps, several times.

Everybody’s gay. Even the people who aren’t gay are gay. Oh, my God. Okay, right. All right. So and I guess Joel McHale and Justin Long are business partners. They want to get this big waters cove, what is it? Is it going to be like a recreation? Is it housing? Yeah, I think 

Todd: it’s just a big development. It’s Trump Tower.

It’s like, yeah, but also like a shopping complex and maybe living space and office space, kind of one of these big things. I got the impression like this giant thing that they build up around like stadiums and things like that. Kind of a shopping mall, eating 

Craig: office. It’s big and flashy and gaudy. We 

Todd: never really even Get to spend any time in 

Craig: it.

No. See it from afar. I mean, it’s not built in this world. No, at this point it’s not built, right? Yeah. Right, okay. And so the last guy that’s holding out is, uh, an old man named Roger Evans. Played by the actor who played the smoking man on The X Files. Oh, I didn’t catch that. Yeah. Oh, I can’t believe you I didn’t even watch The X Files, and I was like, Oh, that’s the smoking man from The X Files.

And I looked it up, and he was. Uh, and his daughter his granddaughter, excuse me, is Karat. Now, his home is like a historical landmark or something, and his family’s been there for generations, and he’s not leaving. Here we go, Roger. 

Clip: Got the pen all ready to go. Let 

Craig: me just twist it. Ready 

Clip: to go 

Craig: for you. 

Todd: Mr.

Evans, we know you’re carrying a lot of debt, and you could 

Clip: use the money, so it, I think it’s a really great 

Todd: idea to sign. 

Clip: You’re a good 

Craig: man, David. But my family’s lived here for generations. My granddaughter will own it next. I’m 

Todd: not signing.

When your dad died a 

Craig: few years ago, Henry, he should have left the business to David. 

Clip: But I’m his 

Craig: son. David was more of a son to him than you ever were. 

Clip: Look, Roger, I know you and your family, you used to be the gold standard around here. Especially Christmas time, you donated those trees year after year.

But that was in the past, because I’m here now. So, I want you to take a look around your town, if you’re able to walk outside on your own. And you will see that I’m the person this town needs to move us on into the 

Craig: future. By kicking them from their storefronts and their homes. The 

Todd: people of 

Craig: this town are its future, Henry.

They want to live, to work and be happy, and that’s it. Your father knew that. 

Todd: Why do you want to take 

Craig: that away from them? And his granddaughter, Kara, and Joel McHale’s daughter, Winnie, are best friends, and they’re going to a party together, and so Mr. Evans is left at home alone, there’s a knock at the door, and he’s like, I told ya, I’m not sellin and he opens the door, and he gets his throat cut in a pretty gory fashion.

Yeah. By The killer, who is completely masked and, and shrouded. And it’s all white, and I read that this was based on the original concept for Ghost Face in Scream. Originally, Ghost Face was supposed to be in all white, and they just at the last minute changed it because they thought black would be scarier.

And I think they’re right. I think they are right, but I do like this 

Todd: design. I like the design of the face, like he’s wearing a mask that is just 

Craig: all It’s kind of like opalescent. Yeah, it’s faceless. Featureless, 

Todd: yeah. Yeah, featureless, but opalescent like you said, so you’re almost wondering if you’re seeing something that’s a little translucent and It doesn’t look like a mask, you know, it looks kind of like an otherworldly figure.

It looks 

Craig: like a, it looks like a fencing mask, except Yeah, 

Todd: and I have to say, like, when I was seeing the posters, and I was watching the trailer for this, and even maybe the first one or two Appearances that this makes. I, I really felt like this was maybe perhaps a supernatural entity, but very, very quickly as you see the way it moves and stuff, you’re kind of realize, oh, it’s definitely not, this is a person in a suit because, you know, they bump into things or they like, you know, oh, yeah.

Like kind of dart around a little too 

Craig: much and Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I mean, it’s just a guy. It also looks a lot like a Marvel character, uh, Moon Knight, I think? Oh, I didn’t know 

Todd: that. Looks a lot like him. I just noticed it seemed to be like, patterned after, referenced by the, the tree topper at the very top of that Christmas tree that they have in town, at Angel Falls.

It’s like an angel, I guess it’s supposed 

Craig: to look like an angel. Well, and they call it the angel. Mm hmm. I don’t that tree topper, I don’t think shows up until things go wonky. Oh, no, it’s there. I I It’s there in the very beginning. 

Todd: Is it? In the beginning? Yeah, the camera swoops down on when the first thing he does is that tree lighting ceremony.

Craig: It’s up there. Okay, well, interesting. Alright, so, then All these teenagers are at a party. The brother, Jimmy, sees a hot guy and immediately goes off and starts making out with him. Super hot. And the friend, Kara, finds some, like, I don’t, she’s upset about something. Yeah, I’m not sure. Her grandfather not, like, her grandfather not selling the house or something.

I’m really not sure. Um, but to ease her worries, she finds some random guy and goes off and starts making out with him. And Winnie is Left behind there’s also another friend Darla who seems I don’t know she’s like the bitch the bitchy one And winning has a boyfriend named Robbie who has no personality at all like you barely see him So when he goes to make out with some guy and they Start making out and she pulls back and she’s like, ew, gross.

What did you eat? And then blood starts coming out of his mouth because he’s been stabbed from behind by a giant candy cane decoration that was by the killer. It was, see, there were moments of this that were really fun. Like this opening kind of slaughter. I like it was cool. 

Todd: It was a little weird that the killer, like, leaps off of what I guess was a boardwalk or something?

That was weird! Yeah! And then goes underneath it, and half of this is like cement and half of it’s planks, I guess, and suddenly the knife starts stabbing up through the wood. Like, I was like, I don’t think this 

can 

Craig: happen. Wait, and why? Like, he was standing right there, he could have just killed her, but instead he decided to jump underneath the pier that they’re on?

It was so 

Todd: bizarre. Yeah, I didn’t get that at all. That’s what I was thinking, is this supernatural, is this guy supernatural? And he’s, I don’t know. You’d have to be pretty frickin supernatural to stab a, uh, I don’t know, it’s only like a four inch knife maybe, through like two by fours. A pier. 

Craig: And, uh, the killer, like, was kinda creepin around the gay dudes, but they just got out of there cause they thought somebody was watching them.

And then, the killer Kills Kara, or whatever her name is, Ka yeah, Kara. Kara, yeah. Brutally. Right in front of everybody. Yeah, and it’s super brutal. Everybody sees and they scream and everybody starts running. Mm hmm. And first, the killer starts chasing Winnie. But she just kind of outsmarts him. Like, she just, she hides and, and he can’t find her.

And then he does find her. And then, Jimmy saves her, and then she and Jimmy, they’re twins by the way, not that it really matters, but They are running away together, and somehow the killer catches them again, and the killer is about to kill Jimmy, like, he’s got him down on the ground, and he’s, like, trying to stab him in the head, and Jimmy’s just barely keeping him off of him.

They’re wrestling 

Todd: that knife between the two of them, 

Craig: basically, yeah. Right. And so then Like, Winnie grabs jumper cables. From where? I don’t know what they’re hooked up to either, like they’re just hooked up to a car battery or something. But she puts them on the killer’s shoulders and it electrocutes and kills him.

Dead. Yeah. And, uh, she takes off the mask, and it’s Justin Long. Mm hmm. And then we cut to a year later, right? 

Todd: This is where we get the title card. I was like, The title 

Craig: card! It was like 15 minutes in! 

Todd: Yeah! So it was like, you know, the killer’s unmasked. You know, in a typical movie, this would be when it’s finished.

I wanna know where those 

Clip: jumper cables came from! I’m just so 

Todd: That bothered me so 

Craig: much. They were like, buy a shed or something. I don’t, I don’t know. But I, see, now I’m talking about it, and I’m like, see, that opening was pretty good. Yeah. I liked it. But then things get weird, because it’s like a year later, and everybody else is like, fine and over it.

Happy. Which upsets. Winnie, she thinks that they, you know, her best friend died. Lots of people died, but, but 

Todd: it’s a little contrived, isn’t it? Like, come on, like the whole town. Now her dad, they’ve got the Carothers family realty. It seems like he’s taken over the business and everybody loves them. Right.

Her dad and his, her brother are in business together and. There’s a juxtaposition. At the beginning of the movie, we saw this commercial with douchebag Justin Long. 

Clip: Do you want the best? From the best? Look no further than Waters Cove, the future shopping, dining, and entertainment destination for a brand new Angel Falls.

My Angel Falls. Hey, you! And remember, there’s only one name that you can trust. Waters Corp. I’m the best. And 

Todd: these guys, like, have their own commercial that’s like, Hey, everything’s great, and the city’s wonderful, and yadda yadda yadda. Everything is better, because that’s what Winnie did, but she is just so distraught by the death of her friend that She’s mad that 

Craig: everybody’s happy?

I have that in my notes, like, she’s gloomy now. Like, and they tell you that with her clothes and her hair and her makeup. Oh yeah. Like, she looks sick. Like, she’s got like black bags under her eyes and her hair’s greasy and stringy and And, this is one of the biggest issues that I have with the movie. Her family are dirtbags.

Like, and I don’t want that. I don’t want her family to be dirtbags. Her mom is just like this waspy, everything is like appearances, and she’s super super fake. Well, and the thing that bothers me the most, I guess this is Christmas, the parents give her a workout sweatsuit and force her to model it for them, and while she’s upstairs, before they give the gifts.

The aunt and the aunt’s wife show up. The aunt is played by Catherine Isabel, who I absolutely love, who is getting older and looks fantastic. And part of the reason she looks so good is because she looks like she’s aging naturally. And I love it. And her wife is played I don’t even have the actress’s name in front of me, but she was the lead in a movie called Influencer, which we didn’t do on the show, but which I wrote a review for on our Patreon page.

And she’s very distinctive. Gorgeous, but she’s very distinctive because she has a really unique birthmark on her face. And I so wish that they had done more with the ants. Right? I like them both and they didn’t really do much of anything with them. 

Todd: Well when we jump forward one of them’s Gone, right? 

Yes.

Craig: Is she there? No, she’s, no, she’s dead. 

Todd: She’s dead. That’s right. 

Craig: She’s one of the We’re getting ahead of ourselves. Sorry, sorry. Okay, so, they, they force her to go put on the sweatsuit and when she comes back downstairs everybody else is gone except for, uh, Aunt Catherine Isabel whose name is Gail Prescott which is an homage to Scream, Gail Weathers and Sidney Prescott.

But the aunt’s like pouring herself a tall glass of whiskey and she’s like, what’s going on? And, It looks, you know, annoyed and she’s like, they bought your brother a truck. So she goes outside and they’ve bought the twin brother this 70, 000 truck and they bought her a sweatshirt and she’s like, what the f k?

And the mom says, we bought you both something that you needed. F k you! Like, why are they so awful? I know. Even her brother who, 

Todd: you know, they Played out early on and they’re keeping this trying to keep this thread throughout the movie that like he was one of the most important People to her is like, oh, don’t worry.

I’ll let you drive it. I didn’t when she storms off angry there’s a beat and then dad just turns home is like It’s, uh, got a 6. 2 liter engine. It’s pretty amazing. And they both geek out over the car. Like, really? Even your brother is completely insensitive to 

Craig: you like this. Right. Your brother whose life you literally saved a year ago?

And 

Todd: look, as I’m watching it, I was like, okay, I’m gonna put this in perspective. I think this movie is a hallmark Christmas movie, but They’re keeping it light, they’re keeping it basic, everything’s a little simplistic, and maybe there’s humor in that, you know? It’s maybe like a parody, you know what I mean, of a Hallmark Christmas movie.

So, I was still kind of going with it here, even though I thought it was ridiculous. I didn’t expect it to be realistic at this point. I thought all these choices were quite bizarre. But I was like, all right, well, maybe this is, this is part of the parody aspect of it. 

Craig: I, yeah, I don’t know. I really didn’t like that choice, but I guess what they’re doing is they’re setting her, she has to be miserable in order to wish that she was never alive.

So she’s already, you know, her family are douchebags. So she goes to a party looking for her boyfriend and she runs into that weird. Girl. Uh huh. What’s that girl’s name? Bernie. I was asking Alan every five minutes, what’s her name? 

Todd: You got Winnie and Jimmy and Bernie. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: She’s, everyone calls her weirdo.

You don’t even hear her name until like half way through. And 

Craig: why? Like, why is she weird? Because she, like, they say that she’s weird because she comes to the parties. Like, then I, then everybody’s weird because you’re all there. I don’t under, like. It’s very unclear. It’s really stupid, and they’re really mean to her for no reason, including the main character.

Mm hmm. So she sees Bernie at the party, and she’s like, Have you seen my boyfriend? And Bernie’s like, He’s outside. Some other girl’s like, No, he’s not. Weird girl’s lying to you. And he’s in the laundry room. So she goes and looks in the laundry room, where her boyfriend is screwing that Darla girl, who’s also her friend.

And they’re both like, Oh, thank God you finally caught us. We’ve been doing this for a year. For a year! Oh my God. They don’t even care. No, they don’t. They’re, no, they’re genuinely relieved. Like, oh, thank god. 

Todd: It was getting hard keeping up the ruse. 

Craig: Yeah, so she leaves and walks out to a pier by herself and stands under the Aurora Borealis.

I don’t have any idea where this is supposed to be. No 

Clip: school. No best friend. No boyfriend. No one cares. It’s like I don’t exist.

Everyone would be better off if I was never born. And the Aurora 

Craig: Borealis light up, really bright, and Fade away. Again. Go totally black. She 

Todd: immediately turns around and those guys, she’d walked by two guys that were just hanging out by the bridge as she got there. And as she turns around, one of those guys who’s hanging out stumbles backwards and turns around and he’s got a knife in his eye.

Yep. She starts to scream and run and that angel is right there and just Yeah, he’s back. She just runs away from him and, um, she breaks a window of a car. And, it’s Buck, who we didn’t mention earlier, but this is, um, Henry Watters, 

Craig: Justin Long’s douchey brother. Yeah, 

Todd: I thought he was his son at first, but he’s his douchey brother.

In the very, in the very first part, in the other dimension, He’s like a, uh, wannabe Instagram influencer or whatever. 

Craig: He has an OnlyFans. Oh, that’s right! That the Gabe brother knows about. That was hilarious. Yeah, that actually was pretty funny. And he, there was a really funny line where he said something like, Did you want to, were you hoping to see my dick for Christmas?

Well, lucky you, cause it won’t fit under the tree.

But he’s a total douchebag. But now He’s the sheriff. And seriously, like, God, I may have had a drink or two while I was watching this movie. And I turned to Alan and I was like, was he a cop before? Like, I couldn’t even keep track of anything, but he wasn’t. And she’s like, oh my God, it was the killer. And I know who it is.

And he’s like, you do? Who is it? And she starts to say, but then Justin Long shows up. But the funny, 

Todd: the funniest thing about this is, she goes, he’s trying to kill me. He’s after me! He was 

Clip: trying to kill me! The angel? What? Yes!

Hey Chuck, I’m gonna need some backup.

Get some more of that chalk that we outlined the people on. Can we get some more of that caution tape? I feel like, I feel like we need to be a little more cautious. Uh, Tripp, can we get a K 9 unit down here? I don’t think it’s gonna help catch him, but it just, it helps the vibes. You know, this looks pretty good.

Todd: He’s Completely like in relaxed mode now and I’m thinking okay So now the town is so corrupt that the sheriff just completely turns a blind eye and it turns out That the angel killer he says. Oh, yeah, the angel strikes every couple of weeks. 

Craig: She’s like, how many people has he killed? He’s like, uh, 26 27 Every couple of weeks.

Yes, and this is clever too because she knows who it is. We know who it is surely buck knows That his brother is the killer. The other, uh, sheriff was killed by the angel killer. She says this later, like, you know, You have, you kill the sheriff and appoint your brother sheriff and now you can do whatever you want and get away with whatever you want.

And that’s what has happened. So, she, when, when he shows up, she denies to Justin Long knowing that it’s him, but she also kind of taunts him just a little bit. I feel like. She says something like, Well, he is about your height. And anyway, then she runs, and she goes home, and she walks in and her mom is wasted, drunk, and doesn’t know her.

Todd: Well, this is so bizarre, this whole, uh 

Craig: This is. She, she runs into the aunt who acts kinda weird, like, maybe she recognizes her, but ultimately not. And she runs up to look for Jimmy, and he’s not in his room, and the aunt says, he’s dead, he got killed by the angel, or whatever. And then she runs into the dad, and He said, she’s like, I’m your daughter.

And he’s like, this is one of the terrible lines. Like he has to say it. So he has to say, no, I had one kid and now I have none. Like, okay, we get it. You don’t need to literally spell it out. So nobody knows who she is. Um, and then she goes walking through towns and it’s like back to the future too, when, you know.

Marty had died and, uh, Biff was now Donald Trump and living in Trump Tower, and the whole world was a wasteland, like, there’s homeless people all over the place. Everybody’s high. That big, right, that big center is built and it’s gaudy and stupid looking and, um, when she goes there, All it’s like it’s it just seems like a bunch of teenagers hanging out.

I don’t really understand. No, I think 

Todd: she didn’t actually go. She sees the development. She climbs over, but she never makes it to the development. She’s back at that house where she had been to that party before her boyfriend’s house. Yeah, because he was like, it’s gonna be a new New Year’s Eve tradition.

And so presumably he’s having the same party again, except this time, right? It’s not so lively. It’s just depressing. And I guess instead of everybody, like, smoking joints, they’re on bongs? Is that the big difference? It’s supposed to be so Or 

Craig: is this just like meth? I don’t know. It looks like a cracked 

Todd: end.

Yeah, that’s true. I don’t know. It’s, it’s just depressing. Bernie’s there still, and she’s awkward 

Craig: and happy for a friend. She’s still desperate for a friend, right? And she, the girl’s like, I feel like I’m dead or invisible, and Bernie’s like, well, you’re not, cause we can see you. And she finds out that Robbie and Darla are still together, and they’re like a power couple, and they don’t know her, and she asks them, are you in love?

And they’re like, yeah, we’ve been in love, we’ve been together for like four years, or something like that. 

Todd: I love When she goes outside, there’s just this guy, I’m not sure if that was the boyfriend of her bro of her brother in the previous one or nah, but he goes like 

Craig: Dude, kick me! Kick me in the junk! I didn’t understand what was happening.

And she’s like, what is going on? And he’s like, can’t you tell he’s beating the shit out of me? But he’s like, all happy about it. I didn’t know if he was like, taking money and letting people beat him up. I had no idea what was going on. I don’t know. But the killer shows up at the party again, and kills the weird stoner neighbor who we’ve seen before and Blood splatter, like from, we’re seeing this from inside the party through a window and like the party goers are oblivious and blood is splattering everywhere and on the window.

So 

Todd: it’s a strong contrast. I mean, it’s sort of like the same thing happening again, but in this case, nobody gives a shit or nobody even notices, right, because it’s just so commonplace. It’s funny because Justin Long earlier, when he first meets up with Winnie, says Oh, we have a witness? We’ve never had a witness before.

I’m thinking, really? Cause this guy killed, killed, what? Killed 27 people. We’re about to see him kill like five more people in a very crowded areas. What? No witnesses? 

Craig: I don’t know. But yeah, the mayor announces on TV, I guess, another murder. And then when he like Adopts Bernie like you’re gonna be my friend now and and they decide together that they’ve got to stop the killer 

Todd: Yeah, she has to convince her because Bernie works at a movie theater.

And so Bernie’s like well, you know Let me take you to my safe place. And you know, this is the only place in town that isn’t owned by You know, Henry Waters, and so, and I have the key, which, that’s convenient. Okay. Yeah, 

Craig: and was it there that we see that she has, like She happens to 

Todd: have, uh, you know, the, uh, investigation board up and The threads connecting, you know, the typical, it seems like Bernie’s been very interested in trying to figure out who the killer is.

Am I right? Is that what I’m 

Craig: what I think? So I don’t remember. What I remember is that there’s like a bunch of like fashion designs around. Um, she’s a designer and she wants to go to NYU, as did Winnie, but we saw that Winnie already got her rejection letter. It doesn’t really matter, whatever. Um, but Winnie tells her the truth about her wish, and Bernie basically says, based on everything that’s happened, I want to believe you.

She’s like, but how do I know if I can believe you? Maybe you’re just a crazy person. Maybe you’re the killer! Uh huh. But then She finds out she’s not because the killer shows up. Oh, that was before they 

Todd: got to the theater, now that I look at my notes. This was Is it? This all happened at the party, yep. 

Craig: Oh, okay.

Well, I don’t I feel like they went somewhere. Maybe they went to They went to the theater, yeah. Maybe they went to somebody’s house. I don’t know, whatever. Oh, I 

Todd: think you’re right, yeah. You’re right. They went to somebody’s 

Craig: maybe her house. Am I jumping ahead? No, I’m not. 

Todd: No, now we’re all caught up. Now we’re now they’re at the theater.

They 

Craig: have their moment. And they fight off the guy. And that makes Bernie believe Winnie, and I couldn’t believe it when they acknowledged that they are aware of It’s a Wonderful Life. Yes, ah. I don’t remember what the character’s names are, but one of them’s like, You’re so and so and I’m your so and 

Todd: so!

Yeah, I’m your Clarence 

Craig: and And I literally was like, What? 

Clip: This is a world 

Craig: in which it’s a wonderful life exists and they’re aware of it and they’re like living it now and they’re aware of that. I, that was, I don’t know why that blew my mind, but it did. 

Todd: It didn’t seem very sophisticated, you know? I don’t know.

I don’t know. It’s God again. It’s like this Hallmark movie where everything’s gotta be very spelled out and laid bare to you. I don’t know why. Maybe because those movies always are shooting for. A wide audience and You know, grandma in the corner who may not, who may need to have the movie explained to her, you know, every now and then.

They kind of like reinforce these things every now and then. I felt it kind of insulting, to be honest with you. The, 

Craig: uh, I don’t know. I think they were trying to be clever. I don’t, it doesn’t really matter. I guess. So, yeah, I know. So they go and look at the Northern Lights again and Bernie’s like, it doesn’t make any sense.

We shouldn’t be able to see them at all, really. Um, and if we could see them at all, they shouldn’t be this bright. But somehow she knows that she knows that she must read it in a book or something. I’m foggy. I don’t know. But she’s like the Northern Lights are the spirit of somebody who died violently.

And they’re angry or something, and so they deduce that the Northern Lights are the spirit of the murderer that she killed at the beginning, and I don’t remember, 

Todd: do you remember? Well, it’s just like, you know, she, she, they’re starting to fade, they’re not usually this bright, and you basically gotta kill him again before it disappears.

That’s where we get, it’s so convoluted and bizarre, I don’t really understand where she gets all this. But I’m like, okay, fine, so somebody’s Okay, whatever. Now we got the time clock. 

Craig: So then they go back to, uh, they go to the theater now and they Did you notice, did you see on the marquee what was playing?

I know what you did last 

Todd: Christmas. Yeah. 

Craig: I didn’t notice that. Alan noticed it and I had to rewind to look at it. It’s that and A Christmas Carol. So they’re watching a private screening of A Christmas Carol and Bernie is asking her weird questions. It’s like, not weird as in like creepy, just like, um, get 

Todd: to know you 

Craig: questions.

Yeah. Did it hurt when you, I don’t know, whatever you did, why are you here? And when he has her feet like up on the seats and she like clicks her heels and wishes, turn things back and nothing happens. And then Bernie says to her, I know we just met, but I know this town. Was better with you in it and then do they kiss 

Todd: their their hands 

Craig: intertwine?

Oh, they hold hands I just have an all caps Everybody’s gay 

Todd: Or at 

Craig: least by we don’t know pretty right and I was talking about and like I said it out loud like Everybody’s gay. It was like not just in this movie in the world Everybody’s gay. I went to a mall Like, I went Christmas shopping this week with my mom, and we were in the mall, and I was just like, Gay.

Gay. 

Clip: Gay. Gay. Everybody’s gay. 

Craig: Oh, it’s such a different world than when we were kids. I mean, I’m all for it. I’m glad. I’m glad. I mean, I’m sure we were always here. I’m just glad everybody’s Out there living their lives. 

Todd: They’re more, they’re more obvious about it now. You know, they don’t feel like they have to hide it.

Yeah, good for, 

Craig: good for you! And it’s great, yeah. Everybody’s gay. Okay, so Then, I guess, oh, this was funny to me too. Such a contrivance. Winnie wakes up in the theater. And, Bernie, like, realizes she woke up and says something like, Hey, I’m up here. I couldn’t sleep at all because you snore so loud. Alan had been saying throughout the whole movie, This girl is driving me crazy.

I hate the way she breathes. I hadn’t noticed it, but apparently this girl’s like a mouth breather. And they make a joke. 

Todd: Winnie Caruthers? The Winnie? 

Craig: Yeah. Oh, I didn’t catch that. I didn’t, I didn’t notice it either, but it had been driving him nuts and they make a joke about her snoring here and this is when, okay.

Oh, okay. So Bernie had researched overnight and that’s when she found out that the lights are the spirit of someone who died the killer. Okay. So she had been doing, apparently she has, she It’s a library of occult stuff up there in the projection 

Clip: booth. 

Todd: Or at least the internet. 

Craig: So Bernie says they have to kill him again.

So there’s this like naughty or nice event. I didn’t know what was. is happening here. They go back to Joel McHale and the aunt. 

Todd: Her house. The aunt. Oh my god. What is the deal with her? I don’t know. 

Craig: Like, I, I love Catherine Isabel so much but I don’t know what’s going on here because Winnie basically tells her the truth and she’s like, I know, I know who you are cause you’re my aunt.

You’re so and so and you do this and blah blah blah. And the aunt’s like, well tell me something that you couldn’t find on Google. And she tells her this dumb story about like a sweaty thong or something. And the aunt’s like, oh yeah, there’s no way you could have known that, so, I believe you. Come 

Todd: on in, and she’s very nonplussed.

I guess, the whole idea is this whole family is just supposed to be, eh, whatever, about everything, maybe, by now? 

Craig: Well, her parents are a mess. Like, the mom is like, making out with a drug dealer. Yes. On the couch, in front of everybody, and doesn’t even care. She goes back up to the dad, and she talks to the dad about Jimmy and football, and The dad cries and says something so stupid and contrived, like, it just goes to show how one person, one life can change everything.

This dad, the death of his son, like, he could give a shit about the daughter. Now, of course, in this movie, Or, at this point in this movie, he doesn’t know that she ever existed. But, like, the sense that I get is he doesn’t give a shit about her, but losing the son broke him. Like, he is a broken man. 

Clip: We need to stop him.

Why did you come here again, huh? Why are you so intent on hurting my family? Dad, 

Todd: he killed Jimmy! Dad. 

Clip: What? You called me dad. No, I, I just I’m not your dad. No, I have no children. 

Todd: You need to get out of the house. Go killed. God damn it The 

Clip: guy that you are accusing of murder right now. He got me this house.

He feeds this family He paid for the burial of my son So get the fuck out of here go 

Craig: Mom’s making out with some loser in the kitchen and then the killer shows up and kills the mom and her boy toy And chases the girls and aunt gail And then, and then, somehow, like they, they trip him, and he falls down, and he’s like, knocked out, and they do this whole stupid scream to thing, like, we’ve gotta, like, step over him, and they make a big deal out of it, and they take forever doing it, and I am yelling at this TV screen, Jump on his head!

Clip: Yes! Like, 

Craig: what 

Todd: are you doing? Take him out! Why are you not taking him out? He just killed two people in front 

Craig: of you. I know! I’m like, jump on his head, grab the knife or something, and, and, and, somebody This scene irritated me. I know it is really irritating. They, because it would have been so, he’s just laying at the foot of the stairs, and they’re acting like it’s a cavern that they have to get over.

No, just step over him. It’s not a big deal. The knife isn’t even in his hand at that point. No, and they take forever, and so by the time the last one is over him, and I think when he goes for the knife, he wakes up. 

Todd: No, she crouches over 

Craig: him. She, uh, takes off his mask, and 

Todd: it’s her dad. It’s her dad! I wasn’t expecting 

Craig: that.

I wasn’t expecting it either, but it didn’t surprise me. 

Todd: No. And she’s like, Dad? And he wakes up and goes, I told you I’m not your dad. Again, I think a lot of this is supposed to be tongue in cheek. As stupid as it gets, I’m thinking, yeah, but maybe it’s intentionally stupid, you know what I mean? Honestly, though, I 

Craig: feel like with us talking about it, it doesn’t sound as stupid as it felt.

Yeah. And I’m not saying that in a good way. Right. Like, folks, like, if you’re hearing this and you’re thinking, oh, that sounds kind of clever, it just falls kind of flat, and I’m not really sure why. Maybe my expectations were too high, too. Could it be the tone? 

Todd: But also, this doesn’t make sense, and it’s gonna make even less sense by the end of the movie.

Craig: Well, and also, like, I feel like somehow the stakes are lower because I don’t, I think I would have felt differently about it if the family had been awesome to begin with, and then we see them in this terrible, horrible state. Oh, right, right. But they were already shitty anyway! Yeah. I don’t care and for whatever reason, oh god it’s so stupid, like the girls, the weird girl Bernie, Winnie, and the aunt are like a posse now.

And the dad, the, Winnie says something stupid like, it’s like he’s not even my dad, his, his eyes look different. And the aunt says, His eyes have looked like that for a year. Oh my god. Come on Waters 

Todd: is controlling her dad. 

Craig: Is that it? Is it like 

Todd: well, they literally say this she’s Posits. Okay. You know what waters is now controlling my dad.

I really need to kill him 

Craig: I’m like Mike what 

Todd: so what happened you think and what the movie I think Expects us to believe because I said nothing else happened or anybody say anything to the contrary by the end of it is that Justin Long’s character, Henry Waters, killed David’s son, which broke David, and that allowed Waters to control him.

Craig: I don’t understand this, because it doesn’t happen immediately now, it’s later, so maybe we should wait until we get to it, but, it seems like, at some point, Waters has the whole town, like, under a spell. Yeah, 

Todd: I guess so. That is what it seems like. But, 

Craig: but, but, how? Why? Like, her not existing made him magic? I don’t under 

Todd: Yeah, right?

I don’t get it. He goes on a killing spree and suddenly everybody turns into zombies? You know? Yeah, I don’t get it. 

Craig: When, when I don’t know. Out of pose? Ugh. For whatever reason, they decide that Because, like, for her to get back, she has to kill her own dad? Yeah. I’m not, I’m not sure I follow that logic. I don’t know.

But, they go back to the theater and they put on the marquee, which I thought was hilarious. Merry Christmas, David, we’re inside. Ha ha ha ha ha! Um, and they try to ambush the person that comes in, but it’s just Robbie and Darla. Why? Why are they there? Oh, they say, like, It’s their tradition. It’s their tradition, okay.

Their first date was there. Oh my god, right. So it’s just them, and then the aunt goes out into the lobby for a second and when she comes back in, she’s all stabbed and bloody and dies and then all the lights go out and we see everything in just camera flash? Yeah, 

Todd: it’s like strobe flashes. What was that?

Did something go on with the electricity or something? I’m not sure. 

Craig: Were those like the emergency lights? I don’t know it just looks like so we’re only seeing we’re only seeing the action in brief Images when this like strobe light comes on, but I think I saw Darla get killed, and I think I saw Robbie get killed too, and then the lights come on, and then Winnie stabs the killer with a broom handle, and it’s her dad, and he’s dead.

So, she goes back to the pier, and she makes the wish, and it doesn’t work. And the Aurora Borealis kind of start freaking out. It starts getting angry. And, yeah, Bernie’s like, uh oh, it’s angry. What?! Oh my gosh. Okay, alright, so then, then there’s What? Okay, here, here’s what I have in my notes and you may have to explain it to me.

Dumb, sad, weirdo, suicide, you matter scene. Because doesn’t Bernie tell her randomly in this moment, like, this was going to be my last Christmas, like, she was gonna kill herself? That’s 

Todd: it. And so now, like, when he says, I wasn’t Clarence, you were. 

Craig: Oh my god. 

Todd: Is this, I don’t know if this was supposed to be some kind of reversal twist.

But it wasn’t, because nothing has changed. No. She still has, is in the same situation, she’s still got to do what she’s supposed to do in the first place. Which was, get Henry Waters, who she knows is the killer, who why didn’t she just, in the very beginning, like, sneak up behind him and stab him? 

Craig: Yeah. You know, like.

And then, so they go into town, and stumble upon this weird scene where everybody is just standing around a stage, like the tree lighting stage, and Waters is up there with his brother. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, doing this whole naughty nice thing, and he’s like, You were naughty. And then he kills his brother?

Yeah. I don’t I don’t remember. In front 

Todd: of everyone. But why? Why does he kill him? You were naughty. I can’t remember. He gives some I don’t know. There’s no clear reason. I mean, I thought to this point, his brother been defending him. I figured his brother knew he was in on it. Yeah, I 

Craig: assumed so too. And this is the weird part where all of this happens in front of a large crowd of people who are entirely unresponsive.

Like you said, it’s just like they’re zombies. They’re just standing there staring. Don’t they even 

Todd: have like contact lenses in? Like, don’t 

Craig: they all have these kind of like There’s something with their eyes. 

Todd: Weird eye thing going on. So they’re all standing dead eyed. I don’t know. And then there’s a dumb showdown.

When he comes running up, and jumps up on stage, and has like an argument with him. In front of 

Craig: everybody. In which it’s revealed that he is Bernie’s dad? What? Oh, I didn’t get that. Uh, I think so. Oh my goodness. I have it in my notes. I don’t know. Maybe I, I 

Todd: don’t know. Well, this guy who had a knife in his hand a minute ago, they should be afraid of him.

He’s a killer. He just stabbed his brother on stage moments ago. And now, why are they fighting with words? Why isn’t this guy just like, I’ve had enough of you? And 

Craig: stab her too. I don’t know and it’s a weird argument, like, It’s another one for the naughty list, dear. 

Clip: So David was just like the rest of these people?

More of your drones? Drones? That’s an ugly thing to say, in front of all these fine people. David needs me. Like they do. The night I broke him, when I took his only son, he saw my true power. And he came to his senses and So will you. Very soon. Well, I guess there’s something you should know. What’s that? We f ing killed him.

Did you really? That’s a shame. You don’t know Angel Falls. What do you think? You think you’re gonna come up here and liberate these people? They desire to be ruled. They need me. The people in this town care about each other. And they know they don’t need you.

What? What are you talking 

Todd: about? The people in this town are 

Craig: dead eyed. And then Bernie hits him and then they both hit him and they’re like beating him. And his lackeys don’t do anything to come in and help. Yeah. I think he says, you just made my naughty list. And then Bernie stabs him. And he’s dead, and the, the trance in the people is broken, and like, their eye’s clear.

Like, seriously, there’s just this one little bi Well, I was gonna say this one bit of magical realism. There’s also the magical realism of her, you know, disappearing from existence, but Right. Other than that, there haven’t been magical elements going on. So I don’t understand how he literally has, like, enchantment powers over everybody.

Yeah. But apparently he did, but there but now the trance is broken. And the Aurora Borealis get really bright, and Winnie says to Bernie, Turns out I was here to help you. I knew that I, last, when we were in like the last 30 minutes of this movie, I was like, I’m not gonna remember this tomorrow.

And I don’t. But, um, she says I was here to help you, and then they kiss, because everybody’s gay. She then wakes up in her house, in her tracksuit. And it’s the same thing from when it’s, it’s a wonderful life when he comes back to his real life and he’s so excited and happy and he’s so happy to see everybody and that’s what she’s doing and she runs downstairs and she loves her shitty family so much.

She 

Todd: forgives them. Uh huh. She runs outside, runs down the street and actually happens to bump into Darla and Robbie or whatever, the boyfriend girl. 

Craig: And they’re in love and she gives them her blessings. She’s like It’s, it’s totally fine, you guys should be together, it’s wonderful. At some point before that, we get confirmation that her family is still shitty, because she tells them that she didn’t get into NYU, and her dad’s like, Oh, thank god, I didn’t want to pay for it anyway.

Like, they’re still shitty! But she’s grateful for them now, and she runs down the street, you know, and she doesn’t do the Merry Christmas movie house or anything like that, but it’s, it’s the same scene, basically, and she gets to Bernie’s house and she knocks on the door and basically tells her, like, She’s like, Don’t kill yourself 

Todd: But she remembers her no, she’s like yes, you remember don’t you and she says 

Craig: I do She does she remembers everything and they kiss and they’re gonna go and Bernie tells she’s like come on weirdo And Bernie’s like don’t ever call me weirdo again And then there are Christmas disco lights and the credits roll.

Todd: I 

Craig: don’t know. Honestly, I, I really wanted to like it more than I did, but I still didn’t hate it. I think maybe my expectations were too high. So, if you go in with lower expectations, maybe you won’t be as disappointed. Yeah, but what a waste. Like, this could have been I know, it is unfortunate. Even just, 

Todd: like, why is there so much weirdness, right?

Just the concept enough can carry this movie, if you just play it through, straight. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it just, they had to, like, all this bizarre stuff with their dad, why? Why did they 

Clip: write her dad in this weird 

Todd: thing, like, it wasn’t twisty and, oh my god, it wasn’t like, you know, when we suddenly found out it was this Revelation that it was just like oh, okay.

Well, that’s weird. Also, I don’t know I did you ever like feel suspense when the killer showed up or the killer was chasing people around? I wasn’t I guess there weren’t a lot of stalking scenes, right? There was just a right killer shows up stab somebody killer shows up stab somebody like before anybody can do anything.

They’re dead 

Craig: Well, and those action pieces were fun like The kills, I thought, and they, they were Some of them were. They were bloody. In the beginning of the movie. Yeah. And I also like Mostly in the beginning. I like the 

Todd: bit in the, um, the theater. I like the, the strobe flashing. Even though I don’t understand why it was strobing, that was cool.

Yeah. But they were two characters that I didn’t give a crap about anyway, so. Yeah. Honestly, nobody. I’m not sure I really cared that 

Craig: anybody died. No, not the people who did. Just kind of rooting for 

Todd: Winnie and Bernie, I 

Craig: guess. Bernie, yeah, right. Ugh, I’m so frustrated they didn’t do more with the ants. Right.

I like both of those actresses. And, God, you get Catherine Isabel in your movie, use her. She’s horror royalty. Yeah, right. Oh my God. 

Todd: Just as long was Kind of fun douchebag dude, but 

Craig: he was chewing up the scenery, but I think that he would he was right to do so Yeah, 

Todd: over the top kind 

Craig: of he was real. Yeah, he was really hamming it up but I think that that was smart and maybe the movie would have been better if more people had Hammed it up come up.

Yeah come up to that level, you know, you’re right 

Todd: If it had been more straight parody, it probably would 

Craig: have flown better. Yeah, go, yeah, go sillier, I think, um, in this case. I don’t know, you know, it feels like a early 2000s slasher, just not a great one. But it’s not bad either, as far as slashers are concerned.

And, it’s very, very Christmassy. 

Todd: Yes. That’s it, 

Craig: Very Christmassy. So, like Put it on while you’re decorating the tree. . Yeah. . It’s 

Todd: not, but that’s your cop out excuse for 

Craig: every lousy movie. But I don’t wanna turn people off of it, I think Give it a shot. Oh no, I, I think the fact that you, the fact that you and I both.

We’re disappointed. I don’t think it bodes well for the quality of the film, but I really hate to turn people off of it because I love Christmas and I love horror movies and I love Christmas horror movies. And this is just about as Christmassy as they get. Well, 

Todd: even if this movie had not had a Christmas theme and had not been this high concept, first of all, eliminate the disappointment of this great idea that I feel was just sort of squandered.

It’s really not notable otherwise, like it’s not notable as a slasher movie. There’s nothing particularly clever or smart or unique or twisty about it, even if it were just a straight slasher. So I feel, I mean, I just, I can’t recommend it. I mean, I think Christmas or not, disappointment in the high concept falling flat or not, it’s just weird, in bizarre, distracting ways that ultimately left me unsatisfied.

So, 

Craig: I can’t really argue with you. I want, I want to defend it. I want to say good things about it. Unfortunately, it’s just, if I’m being entirely honest. I, I don’t know. I didn’t really care for it. Ugh, I hated that. I hate that because, God, now we’ve gone a whole month of Christmas movies and we were ultimately pretty disappointed with all of them.

Yeah. The last one at least was, the one before this, was at least So weird that, like, you kind of have to see it, because it’s just so weird. Uh. If you want to see this movie, I wouldn’t say, Oh no, don’t watch it, it’s that bad. There, there are some funny parts. Sometimes the writing is so bad that you want to roll your eyes, but sometimes that can be amusing too.

Nah. I wouldn’t steer you away from it, but I also wouldn’t. Strongly recommend it either, unfortunately. Should we go out on a positive note? Yes, we 

Todd: shall. 

Craig: Should we hear from Shannon? 

Shannon: Hi, Todd and Craig. This is Shannon from Rhode Island, and I’ve been listening to your podcast for a few years now, and I think at this point I’ve listened to every episode, some of them maybe even twice.

I just wanted to thank you, and I’m glad that we’re able to do this on Patreon. And thanks again, and Happy Halloween. 

Todd: Thank you so much, Shannon. 

Craig: Yeah, thanks, Shannon. That was really nice. Uh, and gosh, you have to have been around for a while to have listened to all the episodes and some of them twice. It I I never forget, but it always just kind of blows my mind that some of these, some of you all, um, have been listening to us and and been with us and supporting us for years.

Yeah. That makes me feel Pretty good. 

Todd: Well, I’d love to take a poll, you know, because there were some people who were really strong listeners for the first few years, because we would hear from them a lot. And then, like, uh, they’ve fallen silent, you know, for, for then another couple years. And then suddenly they’ll, they’ll show up again, you know, and it seems, it turns out they were listening all along.

They just, you know, didn’t have a lot to say, which is totally fine. It would be so interesting to, to know who those people are and, and, and what they’re doing 

Craig: now. Bye. Bye. It’s also, you know, it’s also funny. I, um, I randomly just find out that people that I know listen to the podcast and I didn’t know that.

Like my cousin who is, uh, the head director at, uh, Brooklyn public library. I’m pretty sure that’s what it is. He’s the guy he’s, he’s kind of famous. I’m really proud of him. He’s the guy that started that program. Um, that’s making challenged and banned books, uh, available to all public school. Students all over America, they can check them out from, from their library, I think digital versions of them or whatever.

Very cool. Yeah, he’s gotten a lot of coverage. He, I found out that he listens to it. Oh, wow. I think he’s a really cool guy, and I didn’t know that. And then, somebody at Alan’s work listens to my, to my podcast. It’s, it’s wild. We’re still 

Todd: Eight years later, awestruck at this whole thing. I 

Craig: know! I really, I really am.

And to hear from people like Shannon, that’s, uh, it’s really nice. 

Todd: It really is. Thank you, Shannon. Thank you for your listenership, and thank you for your patronage as well. If you would like to be a patron, you can go to patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Just five bucks a month, we’ll get you access to some goodies, mini sodes that we do, write ups that we do, lots of chatter behind the scenes.

We take polls as to what movies and what theme months we should do next, all kinds of stuff. Just check it out there. We also give you access to the entire unedited phone call. With all the things that we, uh, and tangents and personal stuff and whatnot that we cut out from the show that goes out to the public.

If you’re interested in that, you can go to it on that place, or you can go to our website, ChainsawPodcast. com, there’s a link there. If you want to leave us a message like Shannon did, a voice message, you don’t have to be a patron, just go to our website. Chainsawpodcast. com and click on the talk to us button and it will pop up right in your browser.

All you have to do with your phone or your laptop Whatever you’re on is record a quick 90 second message And when you’re done it gets sent straight to us and uh, we might play it in an upcoming episode But we definitely listen to all of them Thank you so much, listeners, and merry, merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, whatever holiday you’re celebrating this season, we hope that it’s a good one, and that you stay safe and happy.

Craig: Yes. Merry Christmas, happy holidays. Until next 

Todd: Until next time, I’m Todd.  

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Psychic ghost samurai summoned to a family gathering in a Wisconsin farmhouse to start murdering people and turn everything glowing blue? Sounds like Christmas to me.

This whacked-out 1983 movie is our unlikely favorite holiday pick of the month so far. Kind of lost until it was re-released properly by Vinegar Syndrome, this visual wonder was thrown together by a bunch of amateur filmmakers and non-actors. And they accomplished something so bizarre and nonsensical that we couldn’t take our eyes off the screen. Enjoy!

Blood Beat (1983)

Episode 373, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Here we are into week three of our Christmas Horror Marathon, our annual tradition that I always love. I have to say, the first two, if you listened to those episodes, I wasn’t too wild about So, Especially the last one we did.

Not very good. Yeah, so, um, we have something picked for Christmas, uh, week that we’re both pretty excited about. Yeah. It’s a new horror film. Uh, so, this week I was like, why don’t we go back to something that I think we’ll both At least have some fun with. I went back through some old notes and I noticed that we had this thing marked down as a Christmas horror movie.

And I think you and I had exchanged a message about it at one point. You might have even sent it to me saying, This looks wacky, we should do it sometime. And so I dug that out and I sent it to you and you didn’t object. And so Here we are, doing the absolutely insane 1983 Blood Beat, written and directed by, how’s 

Craig: your French, Craig?

I’m not, I have no French. I have 

Todd: no French either. Fabrice Ang Zafiratos. Okay. Zafiratos doesn’t really sound French, but, uh, what do I know? I don’t know French, so. Alright, so, um, I’ve never seen this movie before, and, uh, my understanding is it was one of these kind of lost VHS type movies that had gone to video, mostly, and, uh, was most, more or less forgotten, and then got picked up by Vinegar Syndrome not too long ago, and It’s just so much fun.

How about you, Craig? You ever seen this before? 

Craig: No. I don’t recall ever hearing about this. I don’t recall reading about it. You sent it to me and I had a couple of other movies in mind, but nothing that I was like dying to do. And when I read the description, I’m like, okay, that sounds bananas, like surely it will at least be.

Fun to talk about. I don’t know. This is one of the most bonkers movies I have ever seen. Like, it’s just, it defies everything. Like, I, honest to God, I have no idea. What was happening in this movie, or why? Nnnnnno idea. Oh yeah, 

Todd: but I have to tell you, I was in trance the whole time. I don’t know what your feeling is, but me watching this, I couldn’t take my eyes off the screen, it was totally bonkers, I was confused, I didn’t care.

It was at times hilarious, at times surreal, at times laughably bad, like acting wise and things. But man, it had heart. It had something. Somebody put a lot into this movie, let’s just put it that way. And the cinematography at times is really, really inventive. And then there are like, whack a doodle visual effects.

Oh boy. Screams 80s. I don’t know. 

Craig: No, I don’t know much of anything about it. I meant to go back and review the trivia, and I forgot. I know there’s not very much. Like, I think they filmed it in the filmmaker’s house or something. I don’t remember. Oh yeah, that’s true. This is one of those times where it’s really unfortunate that we live so far apart and can’t watch these movies together and talk about them immediately afterwards like we used to.

Because immediately after this movie I could have talked about it all day. Right? So many things to say, but now it’s been like a week, uh, over a week maybe. No, that’s not true. I just watched it a few days ago, but I don’t really remember much of it. I just remember it being crazy. I can’t recall ever watching.

A movie before and so many times saying, What? What? I had no idea 

Todd: what was happening. You’re right about the IMDb summary being pretty nuts. A young woman accompanies her boyfriend to his family’s rural Wisconsin home for Christmas. Where the spirit of a Japanese samurai begins wreaking havoc on them.

What? Why? 

Craig: So 

Todd: many questions. I know. I would add, uh, that the samurai somehow has some psychic connection with this woman who masturbates a lot. 

Craig: Oh boy, there’s all kinds of weird things going on here. It’s so strange. 

Todd: So, the movie started out as the brainchild of this writer director, Fabrice Ange Zaffaritos.

I’m just gonna call him Zaffaritos. Okay, sounds good to me. For short. God, it sounds like a Greek name, but wh whatever, whatever. We’re a multicultural world now. Anyway, he is most definitely French, and he was, uh, studying in the U. S. at the time, and, uh, he had a girlfriend. She was from Wisconsin, they were living around there, he had this idea while he was out walking with her to make this movie, and he had a filmmaker father back home and was able to secure financing for it to shoot it on 35mm Panavision.

Hired a really, uh, A good cinematographer. The cinematographer unfortunately thought that this was going to be straight to video, and so he deliberately shot it in a four by three aspect instead of taking full advantage of the four of the widescreen of the 35 millimeter. Ah-Huh? It looks, it has the idea, it has the impression of a movie that is just made up as you went along

Um, it’s certainly with stars, many non-actors. Uh, I was not surprised to hear that the older couple in the movie, Kathy and Gary, whose home this takes place at, are a real life couple. Uh, and Kathy actually painted those paintings. She’s a bit of a painter, and she painted the paintings based on inspiration from the script.

Which is totally whack a doodle, and the director himself admits doesn’t make much sense, and he didn’t really care. He was going for visual poetry. One could say that’s a very European sensibility. And although he admits that he and his girlfriend were high when they came up with the idea for the movie, both he and the cinematographer have interviews on the special edition of this, uh, the DVD version of this that Vinegar Syndrome put out.

They talk at length about the planning. Uh, and storyboarding that went into this. So, although you might find some people online that claim that the director says he was high the whole time he was shooting this, uh, the director and cinematographer very much, uh, claim otherwise. That this was carefully planned out, and they both admit it doesn’t make much sense.

And in that respect, it kind of reminds me a little bit of a Giallo movie, you know? Sometimes we just watch these and we just get a general feeling and there’s no plot or it’s a little nonsensical and, uh, But, but there’s so much style and you just kind of roll with it. But this is like, you take that and you mix it with an 80s slasher that, you know, God low budget weird terrible acting crazy special effects.

I’m at a 

Craig: loss Yeah, I’m at a loss. I don’t know what to say about it. Everything about it is weird We could talk about how weird the score is like it starts. I like the 

Todd: score, but it’s 

Craig: weird Well, it starts out with this weird synth score. Yeah, and then throughout the music there is just a Classical music blaring at you to the point where you can really only hear about half the thing any of the people say.

Yeah. There are some scenes that I, I had to turn on the subtitles. Yeah. Um, there was a scene particularly at the end, it was like the climactic scene, like, where I’m expecting To be told what is happening! And still, no? I’m like, oh well, I just can’t hear it. I’ll, I’ll turn it up, and I, like, so I’ve got it blaring in my ears.

I still can’t make out what they’re saying. And so then I put on the subtitles, and I’m reading the subtitles, and they kind of are like, In English, but I don’t really understand what’s happening. And it seemed to me that whoever did the subtitles couldn’t really catch it all either. So like, it was just kind of bits and pieces.

Oh my God. It’s so weird. Okay. So you’re right. So it’s Gary and Kathy and they live in the country and he is a very like mountain man kind of guy. He’s. He’s always in coveralls. He’s got a big scruffy beard, but you know, he just seems like a normal kind of country guy. Then he’s married to Kathy who is weird.

Like this, this woman is just straight up weird from the beginning to the end. I’ve known people like this. And like, things are revealed kind of about her, but just so casually, like off handedly. Like, she’s just acting really, really weird for a while, and then somebody just casually mentions her psychic powers.

What? She has psychic powers? What? It’s so 

Todd: bizarre. Yeah. But she also paints. She also has a 

Craig: studio. And I, I’m impressed that she painted that stuff. I mean, I mean, it’s, it’s weird. I mean, even her paintings are weird. They’re, they’re just like, just big kind of swaths of color on these big canvases. But I mean, they look good.

They look better than something that, that I could do. Gary’s hunting this family. Loves hunting. Yeah. Hunting is their favorite. What they talk about. And they go hunting at one point in the movie and they take their hunting so seriously. Like I used to hunt and I haven’t for a long time, but I used to deer hunt, which is what they are doing here.

And I never did it like that. It wasn’t like some kind of fricking tactical maneuver. It was when you deer hunt, you go and you sit under or in a tree until a deer happens upon. Yeah. You’re not like army crawling through the forest. No. 

Todd: Ridiculous. You’re not shooting a deer that are running full speed in front of you across the way, 

Craig: right?

Well, you’re right. No, typically not. I mean, sometimes, but gosh. I’ve also never been in a hunting party that includes people with both bow and arrows and shotguns. Those are different seasons. Somebody’s breaking the law.

Todd: How’s that gonna work anyway? Oh, 

Craig: God. Anyway. So there, uh, it’s Christmas. That’s the only Christmassy thing about this movie is that it happens to be. Christmas. Their kids, actually they’re not, it’s not their kids. Uh, it’s Kathy’s kids. I don’t know where their dad is, but Gary’s not their dad. He’s just her boyfriend.

And it seems like, maybe she goes through boyfriends a lot? Like, she like, She seems like the type. Uses them until they’re annoying and then she sends them on their way? Or something? I don’t know, but it seems like this guy’s been around a lot. But in the very beginning he proposes to her and she’s like, No!

No! No, I will never marry again. Yeah. It’s very dramatic, and then that’s Forgot about that. Okay, well, whatever. I don’t even remember, it’s so stupid. He’s full of consternation. Yeah. So, their kids, Dolly, a girl, and Ted, a boy, show up. And Ted, without having forewarned them, brings home his girlfriend, Sarah.

As they’re walking past Kathy to get into the house, Kathy and Sarah have like Just a weird moment. Like they stop and like stare at each other, like they’re both intensely. It’s really weird. Like strange closeups on their eyes and Kathy’s almost like squinting at her, like staring her down. Super strange.

It was like 

Todd: house by the cemetery style. I 

Craig: closeups. Wasn’t it? And then, like, my next note is, why is Kathy so weird? Like, she does these Oh, uh, the boy, Ted, is like showing, uh, Sarah around, and she, she’s like, Ooh, all these paintings are neat, or something, and he’s like, Yeah, my mom does them, and they’re everywhere, like, they’re all over the house.

He says, she paints, uh, like she’s hypnotized. Mm hmm. And then Kathy, I don’t remember who she’s talking to, but she says that she knew Sarah was coming. Right. Mind you, this is a person she didn’t know existed. Yeah. But she knew she was coming, and she has a weird vision that, like, you’re gonna have to tell me what this is called.

I feel like it’s like when they reverse the negative or something. Yep, yep. So it’s like a reverse, like, the colors are all funky and weird, and she hears a baby cry. Oh God, I don’t even know. And then, and then Sarah’s talking to Pete, like this is, or Ted, her boyfriend. This is all happening, you know, in minutes, but she’s like, They’re in the bedroom.

Yeah, they’re in the bedroom. And he, he starts making out and like feeling her boobs and like gets her boobs out. And she’s like, no, no. And he keeps going and eventually she pushes him off. Mom, how do you 

Todd: feel, huh? 

Craig: I don’t know, I just feel kind of weird. What do you mean? Well, I feel like she, she knows everything that goes on inside of my head.

I don’t know. She reads everything in my mind. She scrutinizes me. Scrutinizes you? I’m sorry. It’s stupid. I must be tired.

It’s like I feel she’s in the room right now. In the room with us. Oh, come on, Sarah. She’s downstairs in her studio painting. I just feel it, Ted. I don’t know. Now apparently we find out later that at least the daughter knows that the mother can read minds. Are we to believe that Ted doesn’t know that?

Because he tells her she’s acting crazy. Yeah. 

Todd: I’m not sure. That’s really never explained. There’s just a lot of classical music going on. Lots of close ups on mom’s paintings and Buddha statues. And mom is in the And 

Craig: samurais. Were they all Buddha 

Todd: statues or were they I don’t think there was a single samurai in that whole bit.

You know, I got the Buddha stuff. Mom seemed like the type of person who’s gonna light incense and have Buddha statues around, uh, wear big shawls and paint. And there’s a lot of her doing that. And we get random cuts throughout the whole movie. In odd places of the Buddha statues with like lights flickering on them and stuff like that.

And I’m not even sure where the Buddha statues are. I think there might be one in her bedroom. There is one in her bedroom. And there might be one or two in mom’s studio. And for a little bit I kind of thought maybe there was some connection between, like, like this was some sort of like mystical telephone, you know, that mom was It’s about channeling through the Buddha statues 

Craig: like a baby monitor.

Yeah, 

Todd: exactly like a baby monitor. 

Craig: Oh boy. I don’t know. But Uncle Pete arrives. Okay, let’s just throw in another character who’s here for like ten minutes and then leave. But Uncle Pete arrives and all of them except Kathy. Go hunting, and it’s really strange. This 

Todd: was so cool, like there’s this great shot of the four, of four horses being ridden.

You know, they’re riding horseback, coming over the hill like the Magnificent Seven. Yeah. I did not expect that kind of grand shot there, and this beautiful score behind it that kind of works. And then, I realized after they stopped and hitched up the horses, they had four horses for five people. Where did that fifth person get 

Craig: that?

I mean, especially if they’re small. Do you think it was 

Todd: Ted? Maybe Sarah was writing with Ted or something like that. Anyway, Sarah says to Ted, Are you still mad at me? And he’s like, Nah, it doesn’t matter. And, I guess, Ted is like The most chill dude. Like, throughout this whole thing, Ted is the guy who’s just like, Eh, it doesn’t matter.

Eh, don’t worry 

Craig: about it. Eh, man. Mom, it’s nothing. He’s just running around in his tube socks like, it’s fine. Even, even when strange shit starts happening, he’s like, yeah, I’m gonna play Monopoly. That’s 

Todd: right. I do though, I do wonder why they bring Sarah hunting though. I mean, she is obviously Uncomfortable with the guns.

She’s uncomfortable seeing the deer carcass that, uh Gary had been carving out in front. She said something about guns earlier. As they’re going through the woods, she seems to be kind of expressing her displeasure about the whole idea of what they’re doing. Anyway, it goes about how you’d expect. Like you said, they’re going through Rambo style.

Especially Dolly, who looks pretty badass with her, uh Headband on, tearing through there. She was one of them who had the, uh, the bow and arrow, right? I don’t know. Which was fully notched as they were climbing around and crawling through the woods. Anyway, uh, you know, they kind of come up to a deer and it’s sort of running in front of them.

And it looks like they’re all about to shoot it. Right, like 

Craig: four of you are going to shoot it? There won’t be anything left. Oh god, it’s so weird. Like, I don’t know, like are they going to call it? Like, got it. Oh boy. You know, we didn’t even talk about that deer hanging on a tree in the front yard. And it’s funny to me because that was so unsettling for her.

I guess she must be a city girl. Oh, for sure. That feels like home to me. During deer season in my town, you’ll just see them strung up around town. It’s like Christmas decorations or something. But anyway, so, uh, Sarah at the last minute, and of course this is, we can’t describe it. It’s all shot very strangely with really weird angles and strange close ups and really weird cuts and But as the deer runs by and they’re all fixing to shoot it, she screams to scare, she’s like, and scares the deer away and then she starts running.

Where is she going? What is she running from? Is she afraid they’re going to shoot her? Because she scared the deer away? I don’t understand. So she just runs and Ted’s chasing her. And then she runs into a bloody man who is like bleeding from his chest or 

Todd: abdomen. Yeah, there’s like guts hanging out of his 

Craig: stomach.

And he immediately falls dead. But either he or the director made the wrong choice to have him fall dead with his eyes open because he continues to blink. They’re laying there talking about him being dead. So they go back and Sarah asks Ted to take the paintings out of her room, cause, uh, they make her feel weird or something.

And Kathy tells Ted that she doesn’t think she can live with Gary anymore. Who cares? Why are you telling your son this? 

Todd: I love Gary, but I love my work. I really don’t know what to do. And then, 

Craig: and then she says, and that girl you’re with, I don’t, I don’t know, there’s something weird about her. I’ve seen her before.

And she’s like, I’ve seen her before. I know her. What? Yeah. And then there, there had also been something when Ted first showed Sarah her room, she was drawn to a picture of a young girl. Yes. Spoiler alert, this is never explained. I have no but it, it means something because it comes back later. I was convinced And I feel like this would have been a better story because it would have been super gross.

I was convinced that she was like a long lost daughter. Oh! Like, Kathy had had another kid. Or something. But that wouldn’t make sense because she and Ted are about the same age. I don’t know. Yeah. And I have no idea what that was a picture of. Okay.

So then, Kathy is painting, and she has a weird Spasm. Yeah. Like, her hand, with the paintbrush in it, starts shaking as though she is fighting for control of it. Yeah. 

Todd: Like. And horrified by it at the same time. Mm. Horrified, but 

Craig: not. shocked? Like, maybe this happens sometimes? And meanwhile, Sarah is up in her room, and it’s in bed, it’s like, she’s lit by moonlight, and she looks over the side of her bed, and there’s a big trunk there, and she opens it, and it is full of samurai stuff.

Like, a samurai outfit, and a sword. I knew that she would cut herself on it, which she does, and bleeds, and then there, she has like a flash of an image of a little girl with the 

Todd: sword also cutting herself Was the same little girl from the picture? I think so. I think it was the same girl from 

Craig: the picture.

Then, all of a sudden, there’s a POV shot coming towards the house. And I think that this is Samurai POV, but I don’t know. Cathy is still, like, freak painting. Ehh. And Gary and Cathy have a fight, and then they’re all together in the living room, and they’re like, they’re worried about Uncle Pete. Because he went to get some beer, but he hasn’t come back and they’re all like, Oh, no, he’s fine.

He’s fine. Pete knows these roads like the back of his hand. Meanwhile, when we had seen Pete coming, he was flying down that highway. Didn’t his truck take air 

Todd: at one point? I think so. And then later we see Uncle Pete’s car by the side of the road and I guess his tire blew out. Is that, is that what’s supposed to be, supposed to have happened?

Craig: I thought that he ran off. The road mm hmm, which wouldn’t surprise me the way that he drive that we’ve seen that he drives And I think they had already been drinking. I don’t know about that, but I do know that he was going to get more booze Yeah, so anyway, so he got in a wreck and he’s trying to call Gary on the CB but he can’t get him and then there’s a POV behind him and Somebody approaches him and he sees the person approach him and he just goes He is very quiet.

His throat is very quietly slashed and he falls down and he’s dead. 

Todd: Well, that’s all the kills in this movie. They’re all very quiet kills. Yeah. Oh, I 

Craig: thought you meant that was the only one. I was like, no, it’s not. Cause then we cut to some random couple on a water bed. And I was like, what is happening?

Who 

Todd: are these people? But you, you skipped one of my favorite parts. First of all, they told Sarah. That she couldn’t have found samurai gear or any trunk because there is no trunk in her room, so that’s weird. 

Craig: And then, and she’s like, yes, huh, it’s right over there, and he’s like, uh, look, and she’s like That’s weird.

Todd: I want to think this was And then they just forget about it. I want to think this was part of a dream. I want to think that Sarah had a dream about a samurai that manifested itself. I’m not sure why she was 

Craig: dreaming about it make? What difference does it make whether it’s real or not? It doesn’t make any sense either 

Todd: way.

But when Gary comes home, Kathy is like totally in a state of consternation in her studio. And Gary comes into It’s funny how her studio alternately is a place where she doesn’t want anybody to come into. Or is a place where people can just wander in through the door and she’ll be like, Oh, hey, hi. How are you doing?

And he comes in to comfort her. Puts his arms around her, holds her, says, uh, Is everything okay? Are you doing all right? And then suddenly starts berating her. Kathy, what’s the matter? I 

Craig: need help here. Wait, wait, wait. What’s the matter? What the hell is going on around here? Now tell me. Tell me, what’s going on?

I can’t tell you. I can’t. Dammit, Kathy, will you wake up? What do you think I am anyway? Some kind of a piece of plastic that you can just push around and then dispose of me when I’m all finished? Oh, I know that you’re very bright, and you’re very talented, and you’re very full of visions. But I’m not, Kathy.

I’m just a simple man. I need some attention, and I need some affection. All right, you don’t want to marry me? That’s fine. That’s fine! But don’t you treat me like some kind of a damn doll waiting for a bone, okay? Gary, don’t talk like that. You don’t understand. Understand? What am I supposed to understand, anyway?

For the last four or five months, I’ve done everything I can for you. Everything I can. But it’s your paint, and your brushes, and your damn visions. Well, I’m fed up with it. That’s right, even the good old boys get fed up. If you got the message, sweetheart, have a 

Todd: nice night, okay? And then he storms out of the room.

Yeah, the plight of men. Uh, I love it. 

Craig: Oh, God. And then, I Okay, so Yes, we’ve, we cut to this random strange, these people that we’ve never met before, in bed. But we’re also cutting back to the family. And right after the deer hunting incident, Sarah had gone upstairs. That’s When that happened and she found the samurai stuff and all that.

Then she comes back down for a while, and they’re all sitting together. I swear to God, for the, like, from 10 minutes ago where we are now until the next 30 or 40 minutes, the brother and sister are playing Monopoly on the floor. They’ll get up to, like, check on people and Sporadically, but like Sarah is clearly not well and he is not concerned about it at all.

Well, 

Todd: you know Monopoly 

Craig: takes a while. She, well it takes a really long time. She comes, Sarah comes down and they’re all sitting together. But Sarah’s acting weird and like Cathy keeps kind of staring at her. And it’s, she’s obviously uncomfortable. And then We cut back to these people, who are, the man is obnoxious, and he’s ordering his wife around, and they’re, they’re on a waterbed.

Todd: Hey, you’re the waterbed 

Craig: guy. I know, it’s so funny. And she, you know, the wife is like, grumbling and talking to herself, cause the husband’s just ordering her around, like, get my tea. Oh, you forgot my orange juice. Tea and orange juice before bed? I’d never heard of that. What? Ha ha ha ha God. And so then we see samurai, we haven’t seen the samurai yet, and we won’t for a while, but we see the POV outside, and it comes in, and silently stabs the wife in the kitchen, through the gut, and she immediately falls down dead.

Now, at the same time, we are cutting back to Sarah, and something is happening. Ha ha ha ha And I hadn’t read about this movie yet. So I didn’t know what was happening. It becomes evident later that she’s coming. She is sitting on the couch with her boyfriend’s mother having an orgasm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And so obviously, there’s not much she can do in that moment, but as soon as it’s over, she gets up and excuses herself 

Todd: upstairs.

Well, I think When she’s on the sofa and coming, I think is when Uncle Pete gets killed. Is it? During this whole sequence, when those two get killed, she’s on the bed in the dreamlike state, and she’s really going at it. Like, she’s like, hips in the air. Oh my 

Craig: god, like, the director did not direct her to put her hands near her genital area.

So you can tell that she’s not masturbating with her hands. Now there is uh, like a blanket between her legs, and she is when we say thrusting, like if you were on a bed on your back and put your feet down and pushed up as far and as hard as you possibly could, like you’re getting a good one or two feet Off the bed, this is what she’s doing, and she is just writhing in what looks like sexual ecstasy that she almost can’t even handle.

Yeah. And that continues to happen. Did you say it was hot? It was not hot. There was nothing hot about this movie. Um, and it continues to happen, like the, so the obnoxious, uh, waterbed guy finds his wife dead, and then he sees the samurai, I think. I think this is the first time we see it. That’s when we see him, yep.

It’s always lit, really weird, like In reds and blues. Yeah. It’s kinda hazy. 

Todd: Kind of glowing. Glowing. Yeah. 

Craig: Sometimes there’s a The glowing isn’t right. I mean, it like, it’s, it’s supposed to be like it’s glowing. But it’s obviously an after effect. Like, it doesn’t look like it’s really glowing at all. Yeah. It reminds me of those, like, computer effects from like, The Lady in White.

Or we’ve seen, uh, we’ve seen these types of effects elsewhere. I assume They’re relatively inexpensive, and that’s why they get used because they don’t really look good. I suppose you could call it stylistic, but the execution doesn’t look great. Yeah. It looks pretty amateurish, I would say. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s true.

It’s, it’s like a blue pulsing light. It’s like an, a blue glowing outline around him that has like four frames that cycles through. Yeah. That kind of pulse out and then pop back in, then pulse out, then pop back in. And then Uh, when it shows somebody else is like staring at them or the rest of the room or whatever, they do cast the room in like a blue light that’s kind of flickering, so.

They did make an effort. It’s kind of, I mean, it’s obvious that they were planning to do something like that in post, because they did make an effort when they were filming it to get all that blue in there. In the image sure it must have took a lot of storyboarding and effort, but what I can’t understand It’s a samurai who’s been stabbing everybody with the sword all this time Why does he back him into the sofa pull up a bow and arrow and shoot him?

Craig: I don’t remember the guy 

Todd: gets away. He goes to the first gas station. There’s nobody there tries 

Craig: to make a phone He’s in his car, but apparently the samurai can Chase him? Apparate? I don’t know. Because it follows him there and he sees it again and he gets back in his truck and he drives to the families that we know, their house.

And Cathy, she’s, what does she say? She’s like, I sense something horrible. And then the samurai shoots the man just outside their house. Like at their front door and like he bangs into the front door. They go and they see him and Dolly freaks out. The fireplace fire shoots up and this is what is happening.

Yeah, it’s poltergeist. The house starts to shake, the doors slam, the lights flash, the phone catches on fire. 

Todd: Gary’s trapped in the kitchen. And food is flying at him? Yeah, it was like tourist trap. And 

Craig: then knives are flying at him and he dodges the knives. This confused me so much. He dodges the knives, but then he gets hit with like a can of spaghetti or something and he falls down.

I was like. Did he just get killed by food? It turns out he’s not dead. He comes back later, but he’s out for the count for a minute. And they run up to Sarah’s room and her whole, the whole hallway outside her room is glowing electric blue. Um, when Ted tries to open the door, he gets like thrown back against the wall.

So he and Dahlia are huddled in a corner. And, like, apparently the samurai is still outside because then the sword comes through a window right in front of them. I don’t remember if they lock themselves in a closet or they get 

Todd: locked They get locked. Yeah, they retreat to a closet and end up getting locked in.

And 

Craig: then, Kathy is standing in the middle of her painting room, which nobody else is allowed in, and she gets really pissed off every time somebody walks in. Gary, I didn’t tell you you could come in here! And, like, somebody will knock on the door. Can I come in? No!

Oh my God. So she’s in that room and she is talking, like trying to communicate with the Samurai. And she’s like, Who are you? What do you want here? Answer me. Answer me! Answer me! What do you want? What do you want? Answer me! Don’t dare touch my kids!

My time isn’t over! Get out of here! Leave us alone! And the samurai, like, sticks his sword through the closet door, but then Cathy’s hands start glowing red. Yeah! They’re like sparking red. And then the whole house is glowing blue, and then everything just stops. 

Todd: Yeah. Without explanation. I wondered if mom sent it away with her red hand magic or something.

I was having a blast during this whole thing. I thought this was just fantastic. 

Craig: I get it. But like, I’ve seen this before. You know, you said like, it’s like a poltergeist. That’s basically what it’s like. We’ve seen this before. We’ve seen the house start shaking. We’ve seen food flying out of cabinets. I’ve seen it before, but without any explanation for what’s going on.

Even if it came later, but it doesn’t. I don’t have any idea what’s happening. 

Todd: The implication is that it seems like Kathy kind of knows, but she’s completely unwilling to tell anybody. They all gather around her and around Gary in the kitchen and pick him up. And what’s going on here? Everything went crazy.

And Kathy’s like, I guess she won’t talk about it. I can’t talk about it. I can’t tell you. I’m sorry. Ted, I’m 

Craig: your mother. And I think Dolly says, Mama, you don’t mean Yes. And that’s just it! Says it I have it in my notes. You don’t mean what?! 

Todd: Says it three times. Mama, you don’t mean Mama, you don’t mean You don’t mean But she does You don’t mean what?!

She says, Ted, I’m your mother. He wouldn’t take me away from you and he would never take you and Dolly away from me. Who? Who?!

Craig: I was thinking, maybe their dad? But then, like, she, she, no I don’t think that’s right, I just feel like I’m running through the possibilities in my mind, and I don’t know, but it seems like, you’re right, it seems like she knows, and it seems like she at least thinks that Ted should 

Todd: know. I think, at the very least, this is some spirit that, that uh, Cathy has had some run in with in the past.

And it keeps coming back to haunt her, or something like that, or it’s haunting her again after so long, maybe when she was a girl, maybe that’s her picture? As a girl, in that room, and her cutting her finger on the samurai sword when Sarah, you know, it could be a case of where this is like a loop type thing, where Cathy had the same experience Sarah had, right, of uh, coming across the samurai stuff, and as soon as she opened the box, she started having this psychic connection with the samurai, and the orgasms and all that thing, and maybe it awakened like the psychicness of her mind, and then somehow she put it away, and now it’s back.

And And it’s done exactly the same thing to Sarah. 

Craig: Okay, you have put a lot more thought into this than the writers did. Oh, boy. But, but, okay, so, meanwhile, you know, they checked on Gary or whatever, but nobody has bothered to check on Sarah. She’s still up in the room that was glowing and they couldn’t get into it.

But, but then, Ted goes up there. What? Like, the whole house was just possessed by some kind of spirit. They were just being chased around by a samurai. He takes off his clothes and gets in bed. And has sex with her. Yeah. 

Todd: What?! Oh, it’s so good. I love this part though. Cause I kind of almost saw what was coming.

And it’s really stylishly shot. And 

Craig: to be fair, I said there was no, nothing was hot about this movie. This sex scene is kind of hot. It’s super hot. Mostly because of the way it’s lit. It’s kind of backlit. Yeah. So they’re kind of in silhouette. 

Todd: It reminded me a little bit, if I got it right in my mind, that scene in Top Gun with Tom Cruise and what’s her name?

Is that similarly lit? 

Craig: I can’t remember. Kind of. Yeah. It wasn’t nearly that artful. No. That’s true. Um, it was, it was kind of a, a single shot, you know, with their bodies horizontal, totally in frame. I feel like the talk about saying there were lots of different cuts and angles and stuff. 

Todd: This is her sitting up on him.

So she’s kind of riding him basically. And we’ve got some guys playing harmonica by a fire out in a field. I love this, you know, the old harmonica trope, whenever you’re out in the American Midwest sitting around a campfire, someone’s gotten out a harmonica. 

Craig: The guy, because they were playing harmonicas, I thought that they were going to be like stereotypical bums.

Yeah, me too. We’re, we’re just, we’re just the bums who live in the woods and get drunk and play the harmonica. Yeah. But, it dawned on me, they’re hunters. Like, they’re, they’re hunters, they’re camping. Right. 

Todd: And once again, it’s kind of like the other two kills, where we, one goes to P, and we see this POV shot that’s clearly the samurai, and he approaches them, and then in some shots he starts to approach them, and we actually see him from behind, and they kind of back away and silently all get murdered, and every time one of them gets killed.

Kathy is like, aah, screaming on top of a, on top of a thing. Not Kathy, that’d be 

Craig: terrible. No, sorry. 

Todd: I’d put a whole new dimension to this 

Craig: movie. But yeah, like, like, yeah, she orgasms every time the samurai kills one. Okay. It’s awesome. Next morning. Gary throws the human body in the truck. Like, they didn’t think that they should have taken care of that yesterday.

I kinda thought. Like, it’s not Oh my god, so he throws the human body in the back of the truck, but the truck won’t start, so he’s gonna have to take the horse. Where? Where is 

Todd: he going? I don’t know, what’s he doing? Because he can’t he doesn’t bring the body with him. He leaves 

Craig: without the body, and then he’s gone for a while, and then he just comes back.

No comment. About where he was, or what he was doing. And he comes back quickly. Doesn’t come back with anyone. Nope. Doesn’t come back with anything. Just leaves and comes back. And then, Dolly and Kathy have a weird convo. Like, Dolly walks into the room and Kathy’s staring at her and Dolly says, Don’t come into my mind.

And then they have a weird stare off. Yes! Oh, God. Like, like, Dolly is actively trying to keep Kathy from getting in her head. Yeah. So obviously she knows that she can. It’s 

Todd: hilarious, this thing. They’re just staring at each other like, Oh, getting. More and more tense and their heads are shaking and it’s just the close ups between the two of them and their eyes and odd facial expressions.

I just loved it. It was so funny. It was 

Craig: bizarre. I will give it that. I feel like if I had been enhanced chemically, I might have enjoyed it more. I was just, you know, stone cold sober on a Saturday morning. 

Todd: If you’d been watching it with me, you would’ve enjoyed it more, I think. 

Craig: Right, I think so. I think we would’ve laughed and talked and it would’ve been fun.

But Dolly tells Kathy, you need to tell Ted. But Kathy says, that’s up to you now. What? What are you talking about? You have to let us in. We don’t know. So then Dolly goes walking through the Technicolor woods. Again, it’s like reverse negative. And not even very good, like it’s so, it’s so, you can hardly tell 

Todd: what’s happening.

Yeah, there’s no depth to it, it’s either red, completely red, or completely blue. It’s like that Predator POV type thing, except with less, um, uh, with less granularity. Just, uh, flat red, flat blue, nothing in between, so it’s kinda, probably the cheapest effect they could get, I’d imagine. 

Craig: Right, so she walks into the Technicolor woods, and then, Ted is in the woods crying?

Why? What is he crying 

Todd: about? I’m not sure, but there’s this chill rock music kinda going on behind them. At first I thought Dolly was being stalked, but like the music just completely doesn’t hint at that. Whereas before, the music was getting kinda cool. Like whenever the samurai was stalking somebody, there’d be this heartbeat.

Ba bum, ba bum, ba bum, ba bum, ba bum, ba bum. That was going on and on and on and on and on. Along with this great synth y type music, but not super synth y. Oh, I really like the soundtrack of this movie. But it does go all over the 

Craig: place. It was interesting. Yeah, but it does go all over the place. But it was, I mean, it was interesting.

I’ll give it that. Dolly Runs into the samurai in the woods, and it speaks to her and says, again, you can barely hear it or understand what it’s saying. It says, come to me. And then Gary’s back. I don’t know where he was. He hears Dolly scream and runs into the woods looking for her. And all three of them, Gary, Ted, and Dolly, find each other and see the samurai.

And then the samurai disappears. And then it’s approaching them from the back. And then Gary hacks off its head with an axe. But it 

Todd: It’s just clothes. Yeah, he just jumps up and swings his axe around blindly, which hits the samurai, but it’s just clothes. And the clothes collapse, and they look at the clothes, and And Dolly 

Craig: says, Mom was right.

About what?! This answers nothing!

Todd: That there is a samurai? I don’t know. 

Craig: I guess. Well, then we see that what the mom has been painting all this time is A samurai. Mm hmm. And it’s kinda cool. I liked it. 

Todd: I wanted to know, Sarah should have been orgasming when they were getting approached by that samurai. Maybe the samurai 

Craig: Maybe she was and we just didn’t see.

That’s true. Well, I think she only, like, came when somebody was killed. And none of them were killed. I guess. But Sarah watches them come back from her bedroom window, and Kathy tells Gary to burn a The samurai stuff. He’s like, I can’t burn it. It’s too important. I have to take it to the police first. Why?

What are the police going to do with a 

Todd: samurai costume? Dolly’s like, Gary, mom is right. Burn it. It’s evil. 

Craig: He’s like, no, I have to take, right. But then he’s like, I have to take it to the police. And they’re like, okay. And he starts to walk away and Dolly says, like she calls him back, Gary. And he comes back.

Bring me some candy bars. That’s it. It’s the best. What? Bring me some candy bars? Yeah. What is this 

Todd: movie? But then, Sarah’s not there. Sarah’s up in her room, and uh, she stands up and walks around and uncovers the photo of the girl that was sitting on the desk, and her hand starts twitching over it. The music’s climbing in intensity.

You see her hand moving over this photo and suddenly the photo starts to burn. Mm hmm. What the hell? I have 

Craig: no idea what that means. I have no idea, and Ted comes in and sees, and she looks at him like she got caught doing something, but she doesn’t stop doing it. Well, 

Todd: she backs against a wall, eventually.

Well, he 

Craig: comes towards her, I think, and she throws him across the room with blue light power. Yeah. And then this is where everything just goes f ing off the wall. Yeah. And I have no idea. I have no 

Todd: idea. I have no idea either. It’s just a big mess. It’s like, big glue, like every other shot has that animated blue glowing effect in it.

Uh, it’s engulfing Ted. He starts glowing, everything builds, he flies back against the door. I wasn’t sure if he was dead or not. Right. Dad runs to the horse, I’m not sure why. But there’s lots of mumbling and voices coming from the door, so mom goes to check it out. And now Sarah’s in the armor, so I guess, 

Craig: you know Sarah 

Todd: is the samurai.

She is the samurai, so I suppose, like, the samurai wasn’t vanquished, uh, she’s Because of her psychic connection to it, when he swung that axe around, it just kind of jumped into her, I suppose. And maybe I think it was supposed 

Craig: to be her all the time! Yeah, maybe Like, not corporally, but Yeah I mean, they had a connection.

They were clearly connected. It’s 

Todd: like a spirit she awoke and could control. But she wasn’t controlling it, but she was kind of under the control of it at times, or at least. 

Craig: But Cathy hears voices and sees, like, comes face to face with Sarah, and this was the part that I couldn’t hear at all, and I had to turn on the subtitles.

Here’s what I got from the subtitles. Kathy says, it’s you, or do you prefer dying this time? You chose hell, your youth, maybe health. You chose, again, I think that the, uh, people who are doing the closed captioning didn’t know either. You chose health, your youth, beauty. I took the oath. I know what you want, but you can’t destroy me.

It won’t work. 

Todd: And at the same time, there are these like. Shots of like World War 2? Like flashbacks? Was it World War 2? 

Craig: Or military? It totally looked like World War 2! Like airplanes and stuff! Yeah, 

Todd: what was that? I don’t 

Craig: know! It doesn’t make any sense! And, it’s something like I don’t even remember which one of them says this.

I think it’s still Kathy says, Well, Gary gets a bad headache. Pfft. Okay. And then, I think it’s still Kathy says, I don’t want you. Your power will protect you. No, this is the samurai. I don’t want you, your power will protect you. Then who does she want? What is I don’t understand. I don’t want you, your power will protect you.

You can’t destroy me, but she does? Uh huh. Like, Cathy just wins? Does she do something? What’s her glowing red hand power? Do they have like a glowing hand standoff? 

Todd: That’s what it is. Well, she’s just kind of standing and convulsing in place with her hands out, and they’re glowing red, right? Against the glowing blue of the samurai.

I just assume that, yeah, she’s kind of pushing it back. Earlier, the Buddha’s, when we see the flickering of the Buddha statues, I remember at one point, the Buddha’s eyes were glowing red. So I wasn’t sure if the red, if it was kind of like this reversal, you know, normally red means evil. Maybe in this case, red was supposed to be the goodness and the blue was the evil of the samurai or whatever.

It appears 

Craig: so, but it seems like, it seems like, I don’t even understand my notes now. It seems like they defeat it. And then, or Kathy defeats the samurai, and then Ted and Gary wake up, and there’s a huge choral score, and then the next note I have is the samurai kills Gary and Kathy. I don’t even remember that.

What happened? Did it just come back? 

Todd: Well, the Carmina Burana bursts on, so it’s super dramatic, like you said. Gary runs in, and a sword flies out at him, and the samurai So like, it’s like the samurai tosses a sword at him, and I think kills him. And then the samurai has another sword that he pulls out. Ted is cowering against a wall, 

Craig: and then But wait, when he when he kills when he kills Kathy She, like, falls down dead, and then the camera pans to her, and she’s Yeah, 

Todd: crusty.

Frozen? Yeah, she looks, like, frozen or crusty, right? Like, maybe I don’t know, but very blue? I don’t know. 

Craig: I don’t know! It was like she, it was like she was wearing, like, a clay mask, and it was, like, flaking off. It was really weird. Yeah. 

Todd: Well, my favorite part here is as Ted is cowering against this wall, the door next to him slowly creaks open and Dolly wanders in like she just woke up.

Yeah. Then she kind of like, uh, what’s going on? Uh, you guys need any help? And then she kind of turns around and joins Ted and they both join hands and they’re both, you know, pulsing with this, I think it’s red, right? Is that the red? 

Craig: Or is it blue? I think, yeah, no, it is red. In my notes, well first of all, it seems like Dolly kinda knows what she’s doing, but Ted doesn’t have any idea, so he just has this dumb look on his face, like, what is happening?

What am I doing now? And I don’t remember if they hold hands or what, but in my notes I have Ted and Dolly cross the streams. And that’s how they are able to defeat. I 

Todd: guess they defeat the samurai with the combined power of their familial love or something like that. 

Craig: I don’t know. And then they walk out.

Do do do do do. Like, uh, well, that was a nice visit. 

Todd: So, so is Sarah dead now, I guess? Was she? I 

Craig: guess? Who was Sarah? I, I mean, I, I will admit that. It was fun to watch because it was so weird. Like, just based on that, like, it is so odd. It is one of the most odd movies I’ve ever seen. So, as an oddity, it’s fun to watch.

Did I like it? I don’t know. I, uh, I don’t know. What I could say that I liked about it, aside from it was just so bizarre and strange. Would I recommend it? Yeah, sure. Like, 

Todd: you kinda need to see it. Our listeners are gonna love this. We’re the kind of people who love this stuff. I’ll tell you what I loved about it.

I love the cinematography. I thought it was really impressive that this 25 year old cinematographer and this director, who was about the same age, gathered some money together and shot all this in W in Hyde, Wisconsin, out in the middle of nowhere, bringing together people who were non actors, who were just available.

Uh, there’s a stunt where, I think it was Gary or somebody flies out the window, and that was the director himself, who just literally just tossed himself out a window. They had no stunt 

Craig: man. That was a dangerous 

Todd: stunt. They had no yeah, right? They had no stunt man, they had nothing. Um, they just gathered together their resources, but they seem to, like I said, I think this movie has a very European sensibility to it, where things don’t necessarily need to make sense, they just need to give kind of an impression, have some style, there’s some theme there that I think He wants to do the old cop out thing, you know, where, well, you know, it just, there’s a lot of layers to it, but at the end of the day, just, you need to figure out what it means to you, you know, which I normally hate, but this movie doesn’t have, like, one central puzzle, you know, so it doesn’t feel like so much of a cop out.

The whole movie is, like, A whole bunch of different puzzle pieces that are from like 10 different puzzles, so they never quite connect. So, you can easily just throw your hands up in the air and go, You know what, I don’t care. I just thought it was a fun ride. And I was never bored through the whole thing.

I thought the music was great. I was also entertained by the amateurishness of some of the acting and a little bit of the production. But, uh, for what it is And compared to other things we’ve seen with similar backstories, the production value is surprisingly good. I think. 

Craig: Yeah, uh, I guess. I mean, for I mean, it looks Kind of amateur, but I don’t know.

I’m not going to be overly critical. I’m sure they were working on a limited budget. You know, like you said, very limited crew and, you know, these are non actors for non actors, they weren’t really that bad. No, not really. The, the acting was really kind of fine. It was just very naturalistic. Kathy, I wonder if that woman is just a weirdo in real life because she was so weird in this movie.

Um, but it was, I mean, it was fine. The acting was fine, but. It’s, the oddity is, is what sells it for me. I, I don’t think I would need to watch it again. Even if somebody, even if a friend of mine wanted to watch it, I don’t think I’d be like, oh, I’ll watch it with you. I’d be like, oh, yeah, you should watch it and then we can talk about it.

I don’t think I need to see that again. Um, but I do think you’re right. I think that we have a lot of listeners. Uh, and you, our listeners are like us in that they, they enjoy finding something. That they didn’t know about, or, uh, had never heard of before. And I really enjoy that, too. So, I had never heard of this.

It was a huge surprise. It’s rare that I get to see a movie from this time period for the first time. And, you know, I love this time period. This was 1983. Um, the 80s were wacky. Yeah. I loved it, and I kinda miss it, frankly. Me too. So, so, yeah. I say for 

Todd: sure, check it out. You know something else that just occurred to me?

This is the kind of movie that could so easily come off as pretentious, and it doesn’t at 

Craig: all. No, I didn’t think it was pretentious. It just seemed like they were making a movie, you know what I mean? You know, and at the end, they did. They made a movie. They made a movie. It is. It is a movie. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

It has characters who say lines. Um, it has special effects. It’s, it’s, it’s for sure a movie. So, but like, that’s what, that’s what I’m saying. Like, that’s what they wanted to do. They wanted to make a movie. They wanted to do this weird imagery. They had this weird idea for a story and they went for it. Good 

Todd: for you.

Yeah. And it’s, it’s also a Christmas movie, right? It takes place during Christmas, the theme is 

Craig: family. That’s true. Yeah, family coming home, coming together, fighting evil samurai with your psychic powers, as you do at Christmastime. 

Todd: It’s sort of a shame that the, you know, the lights were not red and green instead of red and blue.

Then they could’ve really That would’ve been 

Craig: nice. Hahaha! I, I will say, I don’t, what was the first Christmas movie we watched? I don’t remember, I had forgotten about all the creatures and I don’t remember what the first one was either. Black Friday. Black Friday. Black Friday. Mm. Yep. I will go on record as saying that this is my favorite so far.

Yes! 

Todd: Me too. Me 

Craig: too. But I’m really looking forward to next week, except I don’t want Christmas to be over. I 

Todd: know, right? Gosh, it always 

Craig: goes by so quickly. I know. But it’ll be good. You get to spend it with your family, which is nice. I get to spend it with my family, so. Anyway. One 

Todd: more we. Yes. And hopefully we’ll go out with a bang.

Yeah, I hope so. Well, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. What a great Christmas gift to send someone over to our website and introduce them to our podcast, and they could search for their favorite horror movies. And, uh, see and listen to us blabber on and on about it.

We have a newsletter now you can join as well. For other people too. If you just go to our website, that’s ChainsawHorror. com, click on the link there, uh, to sign up. And uh, we just send out a little bit of weekly stuff, uh, some basic news, some thoughts about The movies that we’ve done and what’s coming up.

Also, if you want even more, become a patron, go to patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. And, uh, for just five bucks a month, you can get behind the scenes with us. And there’s a lot more conversation about these movies and episodes happening there. Also on our public facing Facebook site, Twitter, and, uh, Instagram pages.

Find us at all those places, send us a message, let us know what you’re doing this Christmas and what horror movies you’re watching. Until next time, I’m Todd, and I’m Craig, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

For the second in our holiday horror series, we decided to try this anthology that LOOKED promising due to the recognizable faces in it. But the only thing more baffling than the number of talented actors like Constance Woo and Stephanie Drake in it were the number of missed opportunities, cheap effects, and utterly baffling plots. So yeah….you can bet we had a lot to talk about! How’s YOUR holiday season going so far?

All The Creatures Were Stirring (2018)

Episode 372, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Alright, hello and uh, welcome to our second Christmas episode of the month. Last week we did Black Friday, and uh, that was, you know Was a little mixed as far as things go, and I, it was my turn to pick, and I said, let’s find, uh, an anthology.

Yeah. We’ve done a couple Christmas horror anthologies. Maybe we’ve scraped the bottom of the barrel, because this was all I could find. But it was 2018, and I have to admit, Craig, I had you in mind when I picked this, because I was really leaning towards this, like, cheesy 80s movie, but I thought, no, Craig would much rather watch something more modern.

So, this movie is 2018’s All the Creatures Were Stirring. 

Craig: Yeah, don’t underestimate me on the cheesy 80’s movies. I can get down with those. It’s more your, like, 70’s thrillers that aren’t my cup of tea. Cheesy 80’s are always good. But, I do also love an anthology movie, and I love Holiday anthology movies.

Unfortunately, when you sent me the title, I knew immediately, Ah, crap. I’ve seen this, and it’s bad. I should have just texted you right away. You should have. Because I knew, as soon as you said it, I knew. 

Todd: What is the deal with people online? Like, I read, you know, this came up in one of the lists or something, and it got a decent little review.

I go onto IMDB, and the very first user review says, Solid anthology of holiday horror, 7 out of 10. And then I look at the cast list, and I see a few familiar people, like Constance Wu is in this? Yeah, 

Craig: which one was she in? Like, she’s top billed, obviously, because she’s the most famous. I don’t even remember now which one she was in.

Todd: She was in the one that was kind of like a Twilight Zone episode. 

Craig: They’re all kind of like Twilight 

Todd: Zone episodes. Well, it’s the one where like, uh, there’s like, I don’t know, aliens or something in their house. Oh, okay. The guy’s like celebrating Christmas. And, and what’s her, the other girl was in there too, uh, Stephanie Drake.

Who I, I was like, God, I know this woman. What is she from? Oh, she was in Mad Men. She was Meredith. The um, kind of ditzy I really liked her in that. And so I saw that she was in here and I was like, Oh, that’s great too. You know? The 

Craig: movie is riddled with people that you will be scratching your head wondering, Where do I know them from?

There’s just And, and none of them, aside from Constance Wu who Has gotten pretty big. The rest of them are people that you have seen before, but they’re not huge stars or anything. And we can kind of point them out as we go along. Constance Wu 

Todd: was in, uh, Fresh Off the Boat, uh, Crazy Rich Asians. 

Craig: Crazy Rich Asians was the thing that I know her most from and she’s beautiful and she’s fantastic.

I’m, I’m not at all surprised they give her top billing because she is a rising star. She’s great. But even though I knew I had seen this before, I remembered. That I was excited to watch it that first time, because I really do love, uh, Christmas anthologies. Yes. And, I don’t really understand where this one misses the mark.

Uh. But it just does. Like, I was talking to Alan last night, and I was saying, uh, he was asking about, you know, what time are you podcasting or whatever. And I said, I don’t know, but I don’t know how long it’s gonna take us to talk about it, because it’s bad, but not in that way that’s fun. 

Todd: Yeah. That’s the sad thing.

Craig: In the way that you’re just kind of rolling your eyes and looking at your watch like, Oh my god, is this still on? And it’s only an hour and 20 minutes long and I felt like it took me all day to watch it. It felt so 

Todd: long! 30 minutes in I was like, All right, well we’re probably at least close to the end.

And I looked 

Craig: at the time and I was like, Well, there’s one point in the movie where somebody puts up a card that says intermission. And I was like, It’s this only half over?

I couldn’t possibly, I couldn’t possibly watch like as much of it as I’ve 

Todd: already seen. And you had to see it a second time, I deeply apologize. You know, it’s, the thing about anthology movies, one of the reasons why I love them is that sometimes they are uneven, you know? Yeah. There’s always one or two stories in there, it’s kind of eh, but you know, there’s usually one really good one or You know, a couple solid ones.

I mean, part of the fun of it is just seeing a bunch of short little stories, and some of them will connect with you, and some of them will be like, Eh, that was a good attempt, or some of them might even just be weird or bonkers, but that’s part of the fun. This movie’s not fun. None of these are, are really that great, and I think the thing that struck me from the very beginning, which I was trying to keep an open mind about, was the production value.

Yeah. From the very beginning, it looked kinda like a shot on video. Yeah. Cheap, like the lighting was Yeah. Bad, and the special effects looked like I did them myself in Final Cut Pro. Yeah. And as a guy who’s made things, like, you know, I try to keep an open mind. Like, it shouldn’t matter, right? If it’s a good story, you know, you can watch, like, you all shoot, you know, a couple weeks ago we watched something that was shot on a VHS camera, you know, and we’re way more entertained.

So, I tried to keep an open mind about that aspect, but this never rose above it. It just felt cheap the whole way through. The writing felt cheap. 

Craig: Ugh, gosh. As far as the shooting goes, it’s clean. It’s very clean. It’s just not interesting at all. And it does very much look like somebody could I don’t know if they did or not.

It looks very much like somebody could have shot this on their iPhone. 

Todd: Yeah, I kinda wonder if they did. Maybe. But even, I’ve seen, I’ve seen stuff shot on iPhone that’s way 

Craig: better. It looks a little amateurish, and the acting is a little amateurish, which is Strange, because like you said, there are lots of recognizable people in here who have been in quality stuff.

I feel like we should jump into it, because even though it’s only an hour and 20 minutes, like, if we’re going to cover the plot, which We have to, because there’s nothing else interesting to say. about 

Todd: this movie. We will cover the plot so you don’t have to watch it. You 

Craig: can just . Yeah, and, and the other thing is there were a couple of, you said, none of, you know, I wasn’t interested in any of them.

I feel like there were a couple that had they been in a better anthology. I might have been like, oh, that one was clever, or I, I don’t know, I don’t know, but let’s get into it. I, I didn’t write down any of the actors names. If we want to look them up as we go along, that’s fine. It was hard enough because it’s an anthology.

It was so hard to keep track of everybody’s names. So, throughout this whole thing, I’m gonna be like, and then the guy did that, and then that other girl did this. Cuz, I don’t know who all these people are. But, I do know that Jenna and Max meet up on Christmas Eve on a because they are both alone on Christmas Eve.

And he’s like, thanks for coming out. And she’s like, well, I didn’t have anything better to do. And he’s like, oh, okay, well, thanks. She’s like, no, I didn’t mean it that way. But apparently they are going to see a live play. On Christmas Eve. Yeah. Doesn’t make any sense. And it’s called, the play is called All the Creatures We’re Stirring.

Which is the name of our movie. And they go into what looks like, I thought they were going to a movie at first. Cause they go into what looks like a, a movie lobby. Um, and there’s a creepy old guy in there and he kinda scares it. Jenna and they get their tickets and the ticket girl is acts a little bit bizarre too Like everything’s just a little bit bizarre and then they go into the a tiny tiny theater Well, it maybe has what like 20 seats.

I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s like I counted it. I think it has like 50 seats. I literally counted. That’s how bored I was. I was like, I wonder how many seats are in this theater. I think about, close to 50. It 

Craig: looks like a porn set. Both laugh. It’s a little, it’s 

Todd: a little black 

Craig: box theater. Yeah, it’s tiny. And there’s not very many people in there.

There’s no, 

Todd: there’s almost nobody in there. There’s maybe, what, 15 people in this, in here? If that, 

Craig: maybe. Yeah, ten, I don’t know. 

Todd: And to be fair, that’s part of the point, like, number one, who would be going to something like this, let alone putting it on, 

Craig: on Christmas Eve? A live play on Christmas Eve doesn’t make any sense.

I have to admit, 

Todd: if I had a favorite thing about this, and I’m stretching, I thought that this wraparound section, it made me laugh, multiple times, because it’s an ongoing joke. About how lame and stupid sometimes, like, and pretentious this black box theater stuff can 

Craig: be. Oh god, yeah, the theater stuff was But I didn’t even find it funny, because like, I’ve lived that.

You know, like, I’ve, I have seen You and I both, well, I did more, I think, college theater than you. I didn’t major in it, but I was very, very involved in the department. And I saw so many Sincere performances like this, that it’s not, that it’s not even funny to me because like, I’ve seen people sincerely doing this and at the time when I saw them sincerely doing this, my eyes almost From rolling so far back in my head, you know, I was one of those 

Todd: guys that was wrapped up in this kind of stuff, you know, this sort of artsy, like, like push the boundaries, use your imagination in high school.

And so Watching this made me remember, oh god, yeah, I remember like, 30 years ago when I thought this kind of stuff could be cool and now it’s just kind of a big joke. And you’re right. Oh my god. Such sincerity that you have to sit through sometimes. 

Craig: Yeah. So it made me laugh. I don’t know how to describe it.

My partner, Alan, was a theater major and he did, he studied this thing called viewpointing where it was just like all about like body movement and it was so silly and that’s what this reminds me of. It’s super, super minimalist with just like no set, no costumes, just actors on the stage with very minimalist.

props. The conceit for the movie is that they’re watching this minimalist play, but as soon as the actors get started, then it switches to film. Like, not for them, presumably, but for us. Yeah. Then it becomes these, you know, this anthology of short films for us and we are to understand that they are seeing these stories performed minimally on a stage.

In that way, we’re kind 

Todd: of saved, 

Craig: aren’t we? I mean, Thank God, can you imagine? I don’t remember if it was a Christmas movie, but we did a movie that was, it was just two people telling stories back and forth. And I kept expecting it to be an anthology. Like I expected them to start a story and then for it to go like to the film version, but it wasn’t.

It was just them telling stories. And I really liked that movie because those people were good. That movie was clever. This, thank God. They, they went to film, even though that wasn’t much better. The first one, it’s so funny, cause I suspected that I had seen it before, and then I just kept thinking, Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this before.

Every one of them is titled a line from The Night Before Christmas, right? Mm hmm. And, and some creepy lady comes out and like changes the title card before each one. Uh, and the first one is called The Stockings Were Hung, and it takes place in an office building, which I read the It’s it’s mostly like in a break room, or like a conference room, and this just literally is the Blumhouse.

Production company conference room. Was this 

Todd: produced by Blumhouse? I don’t know! It doesn’t seem 

Craig: like. It doesn’t seem like it. So, I’m, I’m wondering if these guys are like, interns? You know, like, they’re working for this huge horror, you know, Blumhouse is huge. 

Todd: Uh, it was a special thanks to Blumhouse. So, I know, I think they just got to use their conference room.

And, and Fallback Plan Productions, ironically. God, it’s funny. Produced this. I hope everybody involved in this had a fallback plan. But I saw that it 

Craig: was taking place in an office, and I was like, Wait, I’m pretty sure I remember this. I’m pretty sure it’s like, Naughty Christmas, Gift Exchange. That’s what we call it.

What do other people It’s that You don’t call it, like, Secret Santa? We call it Naughty Christmas because it’s that thing where, like, Everybody puts their presents like in a kitty and then you pick one and you open it. Then the next person goes and they can either steal your present or keep their own.

And it keeps going on and you know, you can always like, there’s always that threat that people can steal your present. Well, that’s why we, maybe it’s just me and Alan. I don’t know, but we call it naughty Christmas. I enjoy 

Todd: that game. That’s very 

Craig: common. I don’t, I hate it. 

Todd: It’s a common thing to play in offices.

You know, but you know, when, when it started off, actually, even now in my head, I have ideas for making this really good, 

Craig: that’s the thing, like the concept isn’t terrible of the whole movie. I mean, the stage thing is kind of weird, but each of these segments has potential. They just fall flat pretty much every time.

Todd: Yeah, they’re just bafflingly so. Like this one, there’s this explanation about this game. 

Craig: Uh, uh, uh, Suzanne, you wanted to go over some rules. Uh, yes, thank you. Okay, here are the rules. Someone will open a gift, and the next person who opens one can either keep the gift or they can steal someone else’s already opened gift.

Got it? This is going to be so much fun! 

Todd: But the game itself is never played. One person pulls a present out, and it’s some gal’s balsamic vinegar, and har har, you know, she’s excited about it. The person who got it is less than thrilled. The next person pulls their present, and when they open it, it’s like spring loaded with a gun or something, and it blows their head off.

Right. And now 

Craig: Now, it’s a saw trap. Yeah. Because some anonymous person, the thing that drove me crazy about this one is that I had no idea what was going on. Like, some anonymous person calls them and like, laughs maniacally, and like, This is a game, ugh, I hate all of you, and now you have to Open these presents one by one, and if you don’t do it in the next ten minutes, I’ll come and kill you myself.

And so they’re all like, okay. 

Todd: And he’s like, pumping gas in there, but 

Craig: it doesn’t hurt them? No, he pumps some gas in there in the beginning, like, I guess, just to let them know that he can. And then later on He pumps gas in that immediately kills one lady and has no effect on anybody else. Is it just like, it’s like personal gas?

I don’t get it! DNA. It’s a saw trap, like each one of them has to open a gift and But it’s not clever. No, it’s not, because he says some of the gifts will help you and some of them will hurt you. And it’s just random dumb stuff, like the first one is an unloaded gun. And then the second one’s a bullet, I think, well, there’s a bullet eventually there, a kitchen knife one time.

Mm-Hmm. a, a Christmas ornament. That seems to be important, but I don’t understand what’s happening. Well, she 

Todd: pulls out the Christmas ornament and then underneath it is like an iPad. She pulls up the iPad and it’s playing a video. Of two of those people in that room making out in the break room and suddenly that pisses off a couple people in there and they kind of start a little fight.

Like who 

Craig: cares like no nobody cares like they try to do like this office Intrigue like there are affairs going on and people have vendettas Against one another and like one guy is trying to get another guy fired and this all comes out through like video and audio recordings when they open these gifts who Cares who cares we don’t know these people we don’t care about them They all look exactly the same except for that one cute black lady.

Uh huh, who again? I don’t know who she is. I didn’t look up her name, but I looked at her IMDb page I recognize her because she’s been in literally everything for the last Um, I did recognize she was in the cancelled, the recently cancelled series adaptation of A League of Their Own, and I did remember her from that.

And, and I like, like I saw her, and like her acting was good, and I’m like, Why are you in this movie? I guess a check’s a check. I don’t know. But like, it’s all this office intrigue that like kind of inspires them to want to go after one another. Yeah. And it all culminates with one of them has the gun and the bullet and one of them has the kitchen knife and two of them are fighting because one of them was trying to get the other one fired.

Or something, and then the whole room starts to fill with gas, or something, and one of the ladies has a gas mask, and then, it just, does it cut to black, and you hear a scuffle? And then one of the chicks walks out of the building in a gas mask, and just walks away. I had no idea what was going on. 

Todd: That was it.

She leaves. The one who was lucky enough to open up the gas mask walks out and leaves. And I’m scratching my head. What? Like, usually with these stories, there’s some twist or there’s something clever about it. There was nothing clever about it. As far as I can tell, there was no twist here. It 

Craig: was just confusing!

Todd: Just one of them got a gas mask and left. 

Craig: Yeah, it was dumb. I didn’t get it at all. Okay, so then it cuts back to the actors in the theater, and the lady switches the title card. Well, my favorite, my favorite part was like, I was sitting there thinking, What the F? Like, what was that? And then the first thing that happens when it comes back to the theater is Jenna goes, What.

The hell. Was that? And I was like, I am right there with you, girl. I have no idea. But that, 

Todd: that got me hopeful. I was like, oh, okay, so is this deliberately being weird and dumb because they’re watching the Black Box production of it and it’s just as weird and dumb as what we’re seeing? So I thought, okay, like, this is all gonna Kind of wrap up in, in some clever way, you know, at the end.

No. I mean, spoiler alert, it doesn’t. It’s not. Oh, so the next one, like you said, is Dash Away All, and this was, might have been my favorite one. It 

Craig: was my favorite. It’s this 

Todd: guy who, uh, is, again, this production is so cheap. It’s just this dude who leaves with a bunch of presents and goes to his car in this empty parking lot, and what I guess, it looks to me like just on the outskirts of a suburban neighborhood, but I suppose it’s supposed to be the parking lot of a department store that we never see.

God, it looks so, so cheap. It looks like I just went around the corner of my house and was like, here’s a parking lot, let’s pretend this is the parking lot of an apartment store. Oh, sure. 

Craig: Absolutely. And he’s getting to 

Todd: his car, and he goes to his car, and there’s that weird, god, even the texting from his wife.

They do this thing where his wife is texting him like, get home soon, the turkey’s almost 

Craig: ready, yada yada yada. Your mom’s here, she’s already complaining about the turkey, yeah. 

Todd: And it comes up on the screen, and you’ve seen this in a bunch of movies and TV shows lately, and it looks so bad. It just looks bad.

Amateur. 

Craig: It looks, I don’t know, I didn’t have any product, I didn’t really have any problem with the production quality. Like, I believe that this is the all, the empty parking lot of a department store at the very end of the day, like it’s Closed. Uh, he’s the last one out. There’s literally 

Todd: nobody else.

There is him 

Craig: and this car. And this creepy 

Todd: van. And this van. If he left this store, like, whoever checked him out, like, made a mad dash for the back door. 

Craig: You’re right. 

Todd: Shut off the lights and lock the door in record time. Because he tries Yeah. He ends up locking his keys and his phone inside the car. 

Craig: Well his his locks are act like the automatic locks are acting funny, which I didn’t get.

That’s true. I think it gets ex I think it gets explained in the end. Oh, really? I don’t remember why he gets out. Oh! Will the car not start? I don’t remember what happens, because he gets in, he puts all the things in the backseat and then he gets in the car and he but then he gets out again for some reason.

I don’t remember why. I don’t remember why. But anyway, he gets locked out, and the only other car in, well, like you said, he tries to beat on the doors and asks to use the phone, but there’s nobody like, they closed in record time. I mean, I worked in fast food when I was a kid, and we After we locked the doors, we were there for a good hour, if not longer.

Anyway, so nobody’s there. The only other car in the lot is like a rape van. So he walks up to it. Like, why would you even think, like, if there was just a rape van parked in the court, the back corner of a parking lot, why would you even think there’d be 

Todd: somebody 

Craig: inside? Right. It would never occur to me that there would be somebody in there.

And if it did occur to me that there was somebody in there, that would not be somebody that I wanted to talk to. Yeah, very true. Walk, walk to a gas station, my boy. Come on, like, 

Todd: this isn’t hard. Walk to the road where we see, actually see cars passing by every now 

Craig: and then. But anyway, he knocks on the rape van and these two hot girls open up and talk to him.

And the whole time. I felt like the movie was trying to tell us that this was about to turn into a porno. Yeah. Like, these girls, like, they’re not They’re inviting him in. Yeah, they’re not openly hitting on him, but they’re, like, looking him up and down, and like They’re like, why don’t you come in the van?

It seemed like they were DTF, right? Yeah. Like, why don’t you come in the van? He, they do give him their phone and he calls for a tow truck and he calls his wife and tells her, you know, my, I locked my keys in my car or whatever. So it seems fairly innocent. It just seems like they want to bone him so bad.

Yeah. At one point, he’s on the phone, and he has his back to the van, and we see that there’s somebody else in there. Yeah. Somebody is like peeking through a curtain. Uh, and then, and then they’re all standing by the Oh, God. He has to tell the tow truck driver his date of birth? Yeah, what? I’ve called tow trucks before.

I’ve never had to tell them my birthday. Yeah. God. I don’t know, maybe he was giving them his credit card information, I don’t know. But his birthday is Christmas and, uh, that makes them even hornier.

But then they’re standing next to the van and he’s like, Is there someone else? Your door is open. Oh yeah, it’s an old van. And then a demon hand reaches out. And strokes them. And they’re like, the two girls like, no, you didn’t see that. That was nothing. Nothing happened. Oh God. This one, I like I in short form, like stand alone.

This one doesn’t bother me. I recognized this guy. I don’t know his name. But he was on a show called Manifest that Alan and I watched, like, four seasons of before giving up. It was basically lost 2. 0. Like, this airplane full of people disappeared off of all of the radars. And the people on the plane, like, there was, like, turbulence or whatever.

But then it came back, but when the plane landed, it was, like, Ten years later, and they hadn’t aged at all. And it was a big mystery and we watched it for like four seasons. And then we’re like, Oh my God. Like, if you’re not going to wrap this up, we’re done with it. But anyway, this guy, the main guy was on that show and he was fine on that show.

He was a good guy on that show. I I’m trying to like lead you into wrapping it up because I’ve been rambling forever. The 

Todd: demon comes out, the girls start chanting, right? Because of his birthday. Yeah. She starts chanting something, I think I might have written it down. The tether is with it. The tether must hold, the evil must not be set free.

And they’re chanting and chanting and chanting, and then I I don’t remember exactly how it goes down, but they just basically tell him everything he needs to know. Uh, you’re 

Craig: you’re They grab him, they cut him. Oh, yes. They, like, spill his blood on the ground. And then one of them is like, ah, I’m free. And she runs and the, and the other one’s like, wait, it’s not finished yet.

And this girl like runs into an invisible boundary that we vaguely see. And then she turns back and she’s like, Oh no, how far away am I? And the other girl just like stands there in terror. And then we see this demon. Pop up behind the one girl and it cuts her throat. There’s a lot of throat cutting in this movie Oh, yeah We forgot to say that in in the first one in the first one a guy cuts his own throat in this one this girl Gets her throat cut and it never looks good.

And then it’s just this I don’t even know how to describe this demon He looks like venom. I guess kind like like a cheap low rate venom. It’s just black and little fangy Yeah, it’s dumb. And then the remaining girl explains it to him It’s a curse, basically, I 

Todd: guess. Yeah, it’s just a curse, and they’ve got to find people who were born on Christmas.

Those two girls apparently were born on Christmas. And so that’s the only thing that keeps this demon at bay from taking over the world or something. He’s got to be the new guardian. 

Craig: If you don’t take care of it, if you don’t stay within 20 yards or 20 feet of it or something, it’ll kill you, but then it won’t stop there.

It’ll kill It’ll kill your family and then it’ll just start killing everybody. It’s pure evil. You’ve gotta stay with it. And she’s like, Don’t worry, maybe you’ll get lucky. It only took us three years. Right. 

Todd: Oh man, of what? Hanging out in a van? I 

Craig: liked this one better before I talked about it. Yeah, I know, I 

Todd: was just thinking about it 

Craig: myself.

So like, he has to live in the van, like he has to live in the van with this demon. And this cute girl, she’s like, I’m sorry, um, I’ll drop your kids presents off at your house. She just drives away. Oh my god. Yeah. It’s stupid. It’s 

Todd: not clever. It’s like a convoluted thing that somebody came up with, but, you know, you kind of need more, right?

You need like, a little bit of more Of a reason or some kind of mini backstory like something that sounds more interesting than just this is its rules Like I don’t know like I don’t know why it just It’s very unsatisfying. I 

Craig: guess. And unfortunately, that was my favorite one. And honestly, in the moment, I was like, Oh, this one’s okay.

Me too. Maybe I was just so disappointed in the other ones. I don’t know. Um, but anyway, it cuts back to the theater. And the creepy old guy is staring at Jenna, and then we get the next one, which is all through the house. This one is a Christmas Carol. It’s just a modern retelling of a Christmas Carol. Not clever, not funny, terrible special effects.

Todd: Nothing charming 

Craig: about it. No! The Scrooge character is just an asshole. Which, you know, like he’s supposed to be, but usually Oh, God. I don’t even know how to describe it. Like, he’s just a middle aged dick. 

Todd: And this is where the movie’s really punching above its weight, you know? It’s trying to do this thing where he’s watching some black and white TV show, I guess it’s supposed to be a Christmas 

Craig: Carol?

Yeah, it is. It’s just a Christmas Carol, you know, it’s called Christmas Spirit. Obviously, they shot this movie for this movie, but it’s like in grainy black and white, so we’re supposed to believe. That it’s a classic, or whatever. But 

Todd: it looks so bad. The special effects here, even the grainy black and white thing they couldn’t get right.

It just looked terrible. I’m sorry. I hated this one. I was I couldn’t 

Craig: wait for this to be over. I know. He’s a jerk. His neighbor tries to get him in the Christmas spirit and that he’s flipping channels. He’s snorting Coke. He’s drinking. It’s so stupid. At some point the TV won’t change channels. Like it sticks on this Christmas Carol movie and it says you will be visited by three ghosts.

At which point the cheapest looking Atari ass looking three ghosts appear behind him. And they’re just black silhouettes with white eyes. It is so cheap. You could have almost had the same effect with just like black construction paper with eye holes cut out and just blurred a little bit. It looks terrible.

That would have been innovative. And then the rest of it is kind of his dreams, like, I guess the ghosts are nondescript. There’s nothing unique about them. They’re just these three things. And I guess the ghost of Christmas past. Shows when he was a little kid and his family tried to make him sing a Christmas song and that traumatized him.

And the main guy plays both his dad and himself as a baby in a onesie. Yeah. Oh, God. It’s Christmas. I’m trying not to use the F word, but it looks so f ing stupid. And the whole thing is The whole thing is. And then Ghost of Christmas Present, like, his neighbor knocks on the door, and he’s drunk, and he’s still, I don’t know, like he’s chewing him out about not having the Christmas spirit, and then I guess it immediately switches to Future because they get in a tussle.

And accidentally the neighbor like trips the guy and he falls and hits his head and dies. So the ghost of Christmas future just shows him like his body decomposing and rats eating it. And then when he wakes up and realizes that isn’t real. He’s cured. I don’t even remember. 

Todd: What? Like, girlfriend comes home or something.

He’s happy. And that’s it. And that was so disappointing. I mean, I don’t want to see a segment that just recreates the Christmas Carol in the worst possible way. Badly! 

Craig: Oh my god, it was 

Todd: terrible! I’m so glad that you clearly took some notes on this because I literally have one sentence and I had no energy.

To take notes on the rest of this thing after I saw how it was going. God. 

Craig: And then the lady comes out and puts up the sign that says intermission and I’m like, are you kidding me? No! 

Todd: But, but interesting things are happening here, right? Like they go, they get up and it’s funny because every time this black box thing ends, it ends on some stupid like, you know.

pantomime thing on stage, which is supposed to look stupid, and I chuckled almost every time. I was actually looking forward to the end of every segment. Not only 

Craig: because Just to see how the actors were configured. 

Todd: Yeah, it was kind of funny, but like, that was a joke that I’ll that will never get old for me.

The other running gag is that slowly and slowly the audience is disappearing as this is going on, like nobody is interested in this. And once again, I’m thinking, yeah, that’s me too, like maybe there’s like a big joke at the end, right? That this is all setting me up for. Because, 

Craig: interesting things happen.

No, but the movie is, interesting is, interesting is a stretch. Things happen. 

Todd: Intriguing for the time things happen. He goes to get water. 

Craig: Right, but that’s what’s so frustrating is that it’s intriguing in the moment but there are, like, no payoffs. 

Todd: Yeah, that’s the frustrating thing. But at the moment, I was like, oh, what’s he doing?

He’s going to get water. He’s being cagey about somebody he’s having a phone conversation with. 

Craig: He’s been doing this from the beginning. He did it in the very beginning. He does it now. He gets on the phone with somebody. She hears him anxiously talking to somebody. But we don’t 

Todd: know who. She goes to get a water from that boring woman at the front who is being kind of a dick that sells things, who doesn’t talk.

And a duplicate of her comes from the back room and hands her a water? Like, 

Craig: there’s just no com like, the girl, Jenna, just kinda looks like, Oh, I didn’t know there were two of you. Like, that’s just the look that she gives, but that’s the only commentary that you get, like, Oh, okay, well, I guess there are just identical twins that work here.

There is never a payoff 

Todd: for this. No! 

Craig: So shitty. Apparently the concessions at this theater are free. Because she, she asks for a water and it just gets handed to her and then the creepy guy who keeps staring at her just comes and grabs a bag of popcorn and walks back into the theater staring at her and then when they get back into the theater, the guy, this was, this I think was my favorite part.

The guy says, Gosh, not many people came back from intermission, and she looks around and says, Yeah, do you think we could And the lights go down. Like Right? I can imagine myself in that situation where I would look around and realize that almost everybody had left and I would want to leave too, and then the lights go down and you’re like, God damn it.

Now I have to stay for the rest of this and the next one is called a rose such a clatter. Oh my God, please, please do this one. I can’t. 

Todd: I can’t. Oh, I can do it in like two sentences. Please. A guy is driving down the road in the dark and he hits something and what do you know? It’s a deer. Like, I did not see this coming.

I’m, I’m kidding. He gets a deer, he pulls it off the road, and we see in this close up that there’s a collar on the road that says Blitzen. Okay, so he’s killed one of Santa’s reindeer. 

Craig: Yeah, and there’s also red POV, like something or someone is watching him. You get this all red POV watching all of this go down.

Todd: Was he set up to hit this reindeer? God. Okay, then he goes into his house, and there’s like a red light, and I was thinking, ooh, it’s like alien abduction. 

Craig: It did, it felt like that, yeah. And he 

Todd: creeps around his house a bit, he goes upstairs, and then, Oh my God. The red light flashes, and he gets stabbed in the stomach by some deer 

Craig: antlers.

You and I could have filmed this in an afternoon. Like, 

Todd: in an hour. This was so basic, and the whole conceit was, Ooh, this 

Craig: guy ran over one of Santa’s 

Todd: reindeer, and now I guess off screen Rudolph has come to kill him. And he does. That’s 

Craig: it. Oh my god, I didn’t even get the Rudolph reference! 

Todd: That’s the red light!

It’s easy to miss because there is, there is like some stupid, bizarre, weird ass shit when he gets killed. It’s like flickering. I think the movie’s trying to be clever or trying to get all music video on us or something where it like Flashes to his car and then flashes to the collar and then flashes to his stomach again and it’s just this cacophony of Yeah, I don’t know.

Craig: My favorite thing about this one is that apparently Santa’s reindeer wear small identifying dog collars Yeah, that collar looked like it was for a terrier like and then when the reindeer attacks the guy It couldn’t have looked more stupid. Yeah. It does not, like, you get, you only see flashes of the horns and the, the deer’s eye.

And it looks like it’s about, like, the, the span of the reindeer’s rack. It’s like a foot. Like, it’s like No, it’s bad. I guess they’re supposed to be tiny reindeer? It’s 

Todd: bad. So far, all of the things that we’ve talked about, there’s like no Twist. There’s nothing clever or smart about them. It’s like the basic requirement of this anthology.

Even if it’s a stupid twist, give me a twist. This is way too straightforward and dumb, and thank God it’s short. I think it’s the shortest one. 

Craig: Eh, I have the least notes on it, but I thought it was just so stupid, yeah. So then it goes back to the stage. This was my favorite part, though. It goes 

Todd: back to the stage, and it’s these people standing on stage staring at each other blankly.

One guy has a big like plastic reindeer and he’s going, Mm, 

Craig: uh, He’s 

Todd: pushing it towards this other person who’s got like these red streamers he’s holding in his stomach and he’s tossing them out. I, I did fall out of my chair laughing at that bit. That, that one 

Craig: was pretty 

Todd: funny.

Craig: That one was pretty funny. I have to admit, then it goes back to the stage. And at this point, Max seems visibly uncomfortable. Like it looks like he has diarrhea. I don’t know what’s going on. And the old guy who’s been staring at Jenna the whole time is gone, which is weird because he comes back later.

But then we get to the next one and I’m like, are you serious? Like I’m looking at the time, like, there really is one God. Please God let this be the last one and I was confident that it would be and it is but they Trick you like it’s really not We’ll get there in a second. But this one’s called in a twinkling and I don’t remember what it’s about.

Oh, oh god Okay, this is the weird ass Twilight Zone. This is the weird ass Twilight Zone one Oh, so a guy is coming home on Christmas Eve makes a point Of staring at the full moon and saying not tonight, not tonight. Yes. And then he goes into his bedroom and he’s gonna chain himself up. This is the only thing in this movie that I thought was clever.

Because I was a hundred percent certain that this was a werewolf segment. Yeah, me too. And it’s not. And 

Todd: it’s not. His girlfriend comes over and surprises him. It’s like, oh everyone’s here, we’re gonna give you a party. And this is the one Constance Wu was in. Constance Wu, I guess, is his girlfriend, right?

Okay. And he was very adamant, uh, on the phone with her, like, I don’t want to do anything tonight. I’m just gonna be home by myself. And she’s like, hey, aren’t I great? Aren’t I a wonderful girlfriend? And I brought all these people over. He’s very uncomfortable. And then 

Craig: Yeah, he tries to talk to her. He tries to explain to her what’s going on.

She’s like, uh, I don’t have time for this. I need to smoke. Yeah. So she goes and sits outside to smoke. And while she’s smoking A star, like, bursts into three pieces and starts swirling around, and she’s like, Hey guys, come look at this star. Then it like, goes to fuzzy TV screen? Mm hmm. Like old school static TV screen?

Todd: Yeah, old school static. And now everything is in black and white. Right. Now, I could see what they were trying to do here. And I would have appreciated this had this been a different movie. They were literally making this, like, patterned after an old Twilight Zone episode. Yeah. To the point where even the music is, uh, just, like, one note away, basically, from the Do do do do do do do do.

Yeah. Do do do do do, you know, the old classic Twilight Zone. And so suddenly, everything’s 

Craig: weird. Well, especially since it’s all in black and white. 

Todd: They sit down at the table. And now her friends, who she had brought over, are just staring at them. They’re super 

Craig: wide eyed and super smiley. And they’re like, 

Todd: can I get you some more turkey?

Do you like 

Craig: Christmas, Gabby? Yeah, sure. Could you tell us about one of your own Christmas memories?

Uh, you guys are messing with me, right? And they’re really weird, and I have, I’ll say the, I don’t know who he is, but the guy friend, whoever he was, he was really creepy. He was particularly wide eyed and smiley and consistent. Like it’s one guy and two girls. The girls just weren’t as invested. I felt like, like he is going for this wide eyed, creepy thing.

I 

Todd: don’t know. I thought that Stephanie Drake was kind of good. She was the one who was on Mad Men, and, and she had 

Craig: almost Was she the blonde, or there was a, there was a blonde and a brunette? Right, the blonde did most of 

Todd: the talking. Yeah, she was the blonde. I, you know, she was also a little out there in Mad Men 2.

Yeah. I think it was, she was what, the secretary for D’Andrea? I don’t know, I haven’t watched it. I can’t remember exactly. She’s one of those gals who I feel like she could just do this character, right? This kind of spacey, creepy, out there woman, and she did it well. 

Craig: I didn’t hate This one either. No, this, this one was another one that I felt like if this had been in a better anthology, I would’ve appreciated it.

Just thinking, oh, this is one of the weaker segments in a better anthology. But I didn’t hate it. I, I liked the concept and I thought that it was kind of fun, but really all it comes down to, I like, this has happened to this guy before and he. is not an alien. Like, he is still himself too. And he excuses himself from the table and comes back in with a gun and shoots them all in the head and she’s like, What have you done?

And he says, not what you think. And the aliens Just come back to life and are fine, but they’re glitchy. It’s like they’re in an old 1950s TV show and the alien people are glitchy. 

Todd: It’s weird. Yeah, there wasn’t enough explanation here. Like it wasn’t obvious enough exactly what was going on. The gist of it was, I think, if I interpret it correctly, Is that this guy, for the last, who knows how many years, has been visited by aliens at Christmas time.

Yeah, and 

Craig: it’s like the aliens are just really, really curious about Christmas. 

Todd: Right, and so I guess they’re kind of harmless, they’re more annoying than anything, but they just ask him a bunch of questions, and Then they go 

Craig: away. And at one point, at one point, he’s like, she’s like, she tries to get away several times, but every time she walks out of the room, she just ends up walking right back into it.

And, uh, they’re asking all kinds of questions, and she asks the guy, like, What, what do they want? What are they doing? Have you ever asked them? And he’s like, no, in 10 years, I’ve never asked them what they want. So she, uh, sarcastically, he says that. And then, so she asked them, what do you want? And they’re, they like get mad.

Scary alien faces. For a second. Yeah, that’s right. And the guy’s like, yeah, they don’t like that when you ask. And my favorite part of the whole movie is at one point they’re sitting down and it’s weird, like they they sit down to dinner and everything’s in black and white but when they Pull up the cu the tray cover off the turkey.

The turkey is like in technicolor. Then they make them open presents and when they pull their presents out, their presents are in like technicolor. It’s weird. And I kinda liked that actually, stylistically. I liked it, but I don’t understand what it means, you know? No, I don’t understand what it means either.

But my favorite part of the whole movie was when they were sitting at dinner and uh, the blonde alien says, like, the two main people who aren’t aliens are kind of having a conversation. And the blonde alien keeps asking the girl, Do you want to say a blessing? Do you want to say a blessing? And she just keeps getting more and more aggressive.

Do you want to say a blessing? And finally, the girl says, Jesus Christ, Mary! And the aliens all go, Amen.

Oh, I thought that was so funny. I laughed out loud at that. Jesus Christ, Mary. Amen.

Oh, gosh. But they basically just have to, they just have to wait it out. That’s it. 

Todd: That’s it. And then it’s done. This could have been good if there was a little more information or if it had a better payoff at the end. Or if maybe this year something different happened. Because I really liked the fake out, the werewolf fake out.

But now in retrospect, I’m not sure why he was chaining himself to anything. I don’t 

Craig: either. I think that what we’re supposed to believe is that the whole time that it’s in black and white, they’re not really in his house. 

Todd: Oh, they’ve been pulled up into a ship. Oh, you might be right about that. 

Craig: Yeah, I think so.

And, you know, eventually they, I don’t know, they ask her like, why don’t you like Christmas? And she, oh God, it’s so convoluted. It’s like the gremlins thing. Like, oh, my dad died in the chimney. No, it was just her parents didn’t celebrate Christmas. And every year she would get so excited about Christmas and she would ask, for things.

And she never got it. And the aliens like give her this doll that she wanted when she was a kid or something. But then she and the other guy just wake up. Um, what happened to their other friends? I don’t know why. Did the aliens take them? And they’re just fine with it? Oh and also they leave, the aliens apparently before they leave set up a Christmas tree and leave a note on it and I didn’t have my glasses on and I didn’t care so do you, what, did you read what the note said?

No, I didn’t. Me either. In fact, I don’t know. 

Todd: I have, I’ve gotten no more notes on this show at this point. I’m trying, I’m racking my brain trying to remember how it all ends because I think I distinctly remember just the whole thing didn’t really 

Craig: end. Okay, so I remember how it ends. They’re back in the black box and Max seems, again, super uncomfortable like he’s about to shit his pants.

And so he excuses himself and then the people on stage start the next Which is, and to all a good night, which is, they recreate the beginning of the movie. They recreate when, Max and Jenna were outside meeting, like, Oh, I, thanks for meeting with me. Oh, it’s okay, I didn’t have anything better to do. And then they recreate the night, like, sitting in the theater and, and things that these people have said, and it comes, like, it builds up to That moment.

That moment, when Max excuses himself because he’s not feeling well, and then she overhears Max on stage. The on stage Max, talking on the phone, saying, Oh man, I really tried, I really tried to resist it, but I just can’t. Um, I’m so hungry, I have to eat. And then, the on stage Max comes back and sits down, next to the on stage Jenna, and says, Is it over?

And then the lights go out. Yeah. And then the real Max comes back and sits down next to her and says, Is it over? And then, oh man, I’m so hungry. And then his face flashes as, like, a demon face for a second. Oh, I didn’t 

Todd: catch that. 

Craig: Like, she doesn’t even see it. Oh. And then, the old man, it’s just the two of them and the old man left in the theater, and the old man starts maniacally laughing.

The end. It’s so frustrating. I wish that it had been funnier. I wish that it had been worse. I wish that it had been so bad it’s funny. But it’s not. But it wasn’t. Like, it’s just, okay. It’s just a chore to watch. I know every segment, I’m just looking at my watch like, Oh my god. Like, I actually watched, because I had seen it before, so I wasn’t worried about seeing every intricate detail.

I actually put this on my television. And I was mad that I had because I couldn’t Hit the mouse pad to check where it was in the run time, because I thought, Oh my God, this will never end. And honestly, we’ve seen far, far worse. But I just can’t imagine. A scenario that I would recommend this for. Unless you are DESPERATE, if you are DESPERATE for something Christmassy, because Holy shit, it is Christmassy.

Like, it is Christmassy through and through. Yeah. But Unless you’re just absolutely desperate, find something else. Watch Krampus or Gremlins again before you watch this. 

Todd: Right. I think this is one of those cases where like middling is just even worse than bad. You know? This is just so middling that it’s frustrating and there’s nothing really joyful to latch onto.

There’s nothing so bad that you’re just chuckling in your seat or. And this is where I kind of realized that sometimes our job on this show is just to watch things so that our listeners don’t have to. I guess. I feel like this was like my Christmas public service was to pull this thing out that had, again, like I said, there are people who apparently think this is a solid Christmas anthology out there.

Don’t be fooled. This is not worth your time. Man. Don’t be fooled by the people in it. Don’t be fooled by any reviews you might read, 

Craig: uh. If you made this movie and you’re listening, I’m sorry. I know, I just I’m sorry, it just wasn’t good. 

Todd: I think it was a husband and wife team, and then they’ve written other stuff, and hopefully better things than this.

I just, uh, yeah, sorry guys. We can’t always bat a thousand, 

Craig: right? I mean, Merry Christmas anyway!

Todd: Happy Holidays! 

Craig: Outside my window, I’m looking at a winter wonderland. The evergreens in my backyard are just like drooping with boughs of snow. The snow is blowing across the window. Oh boy, I’m excited. And you get to come home for Christmas. 

Todd: Oh, I can’t wait. That’s going to be a blast. Definitely going to be surrounded by the spirit of the season.

I’m really looking forward to that. Well, you’re 

Craig: going to get, yeah, you’re going to get to experience cause you’re doing Christmas kind of in the. Middle northern part of the country and then heading south, right? So you’ll get Yeah, and then heading to the 

Todd: desert. 

Craig: Yeah. Talk a little bit 

Todd: about That’ll be interesting.

That’ll be my first time really, so that should be interesting, 

Craig: yeah. Yeah. I’m excited for you to get to see your family and I’m excited for us to get to keep doing Christmas stuff. Hopefully we’ll find something better for the next few weeks. Yeah, we 

Todd: got two more to go. There’s some promising ones on the horizon.

Please please 

Craig: stick around and then we’re gonna need to find A movie for new years. So if you’ve got any good, uh suggestions for a new year’s movie, we’re always Open to suggestions. So let us know 

Todd: Well, thank you so much for bearing with us through this episode if you enjoyed it Please share with a friend if you enjoy this podcast, you can subscribe to our podcast anywhere You know, you can subscribe to podcasts, but we have a new newsletter out now and if you go to our website ChainsawHorror.

com, there’s a link there to subscribe to our weekly newsletter. We put some news in there, put up some fun bits, of course, link to our episodes and any related episodes. Go and subscribe if that’s something that you want showing up in your inbox every week. But you know, you can also talk to us. Uh, there is a cool little app out there called SpeakPipe.

It’s not even an app, it’s just a website, so you can access it from your browser, your phone, wherever you are. Just go to our website and click the link that says talk to us. You can record a ni up to 90 second message and click the button and it’ll immediately get sent to us. And uh, we have been reviewing those messages on our show.

And we’d like to hear from you, so if you’d like to hear your voice in the show, you want to tell us a little bit about how you’re going to be spending the holiday season, the kind of movies you’re going to be watching, or really just anything you want to say. We may be featuring you on the end of an upcoming episode.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We kick off the beginning of our holiday horror season much the same way many people kick off THEIR holiday season: Frantic Holiday shopping!

A movie based on the Black Friday shopping phenomenon holds a lot of promise. With this 2021 film, unfortunately, it’s another case of “great concept, poor execution”. Even Bruce Campbell couldn’t save this uneven and mostly un-funny horror-comedy. But at least there’s a ton of holiday spirit in there!

We sure enjoyed chatting about it, and discussing OUR memories of Black Friday madness. Enjoy!

Black Friday (2021)

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, here we are, Craig, the first Christmas movie of the season. Just finished, uh Hittin up a couple, uh, Thanksgiving ish movies. I don’t know, this movie we chose for today is maybe a little more appropriate for Thanksgiving, 

Craig: huh?

I know! We talked about doing it for Thanksgiving, but I watched the trailer, and there was so much Christmas in the trailer. I’m like, let’s, let’s save it. But it’s, it’s Apropos, like, you know, we just had Thanksgiving, now Black Friday, and then we’ll move into, like, the real Christmas stuff. That’s right. 

Todd: So the, so the one we’re doing right now is a movie I had never heard of before.

It’s 2021’s Black Friday, so it came out a couple years ago. And, uh, I was really impressed because, number one, it was a Zomcom, and I think a couple weeks ago I told you I’m kinda sick and tired of Zomcoms. But, here we are doing one yet again. Because, I’ll just be forever cursed to watch these things because they keep making them.

I know! What is it? Ever since Shot of the Dead, like, every year, there’s like five of these things. And, uh This 

Craig: one’s a little different. Like, it, it, it basically is a zombie movie, but the zombies are unique. They’re not, like Yeah. I mean, I guess they kind of are Walking Dead, but this is, it’s more like they’re possessed, or, like Infected by some kind of parasite or something that it’s very unclear and it doesn’t it’s very unclear.

Yeah And nothing is ever explained. So don’t be waiting for the explanation because it doesn’t come 

Todd: I was really looking forward to this movie because it looked like it’d be a lot of fun and because bruce campbell is in it I thought okay. This is gonna be cool and the trailer made it look real funny I was just looking for a big bowl of laughs with it and uh I have to say I was a little disappointed.

Craig: Yeah, it’s not great. Ultimately, that’s gonna be my judgment. Like, it’s not great, 

Todd: but I was actively mad at this movie, man. 

Craig: Oh, man. See, I kinda had fun watching it. And, which is It’s impossible. It’s impossible that I could have because I had to watch this surreptitiously at work on my phone. Oh, are you kidding 

Todd: me?

No. Wow, we were really cramming it in. We tried to get two podcasts in this week to get a little ad for the holidays and I guess that put you in a rough spot, huh? 

Craig: Right, right. Like it was the very last day of school before break. And so there, there’s not even any sense in really planning anything. It’s not like we didn’t do anything, but I knew that they were going to be in vacation mode.

I was in vacation mode. So, uh, there wasn’t a whole lot going on in Mr. Higgins’s class that day. 

Todd: Why’d you just turn it on for the kids? 

Craig: I almost could have, but no, I, I like hid my phone behind my desktop computer and like sat there and pretended I was. Doing something nice 

Todd: That might have been the best way to watch this honestly because I’m here in a In a little bungalow, and I plugged my laptop into the TV here.

So I saw it full screen, with the lights off, kind of proper movie style, and maybe it would have been better on a phone, maybe it would have gone down easier. No, I 

Craig: don’t, I don’t recommend watching it. On a phone during the day backlit by natural light coming through huge windows because I I only saw about a quarter of this Because because it’s so dark and I’m watching it on a phone So a lot of the time I was just looking at my reflection in the phone.

Oh god, so dark but I kind of saw what they were going for and I don’t know, I did enjoy, I enjoyed things about it. What I, what I wrote at the very top of my notes, I said this. is a great idea, if it’s executed well. Like, a movie about Black Friday, and people getting possessed. I mean, even, it makes me think of, this movie doesn’t remind me of it necessarily, but it makes me think of the opening scene of Krampus.

Yeah. Which, which is a Black 

Todd: Friday scene. And I love the opening scene of 

Craig: Krampus. It’s fantastic, and everybody, you know, there’s nothing supernatural or nasty going on, other than people just being Nasty. crazy. On Black Friday, and honestly, that representation of Black Friday was not far off the mark from real life.

Now, I think some good, it’s even hard to say this, it’s painful to say this, but some good came out of the pandemic. Because I think that the pandemic killed. American Black Friday. The way that it used to be. Now everything is online, which makes so much more sense. It’s so much more convenient. It’s far better.

Did you ever do the whole Black Friday thing pre pandemic? 

Todd: No. You know why? And for those people who maybe are not familiar with this, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving. It’s sort of the first shopping holiday of the season. And supposedly It’s called Black Friday because it’s the first time in the whole year that finally retail gets in the black.

I don’t know if that’s entirely true or if it’s just more of a saying but the idea is that that’s when they really start making tons of money because obviously The holiday shopping season is their biggest time of the year. Right. And so, I don’t know when this happened, because I don’t think this was a thing when we were kids.

Mm mm. At least it wasn’t, like, advertised to the public as Black Friday. I’m sure, within the retail sales circle, they all referred to it, you know, in business like terms. But, at some point I don’t remember what it was, the late 90s, early 2000s, Black Friday became a thing that businesses advertised, so they said, Hey, we’re gonna put incredibly good deals, many of them are like limited number or limited quantity, Yeah.

on the day after Thanksgiving to force you guys to come out and, uh, and start shopping. And they purposely were generating crowds. And so, like, some of these stores would do like what this store did. They’ll open up at like midnight. 

Craig: Yeah, or like three in the morning or something. Yeah, and the people 

Todd: would literally line up outside the door, camping out overnight, so they could be one of the first people in.

So as soon as those doors open, They would tear to the back of the store wherever the ten TVs that you could buy for half price were. Right. So that they could be one of those first ten people to get it. And thank God, like, I think even before it petered out. There was a lot of criticism. They’re like, this is kind of capitalism gone amok.

Oh god, it was terrible. It 

Craig: was absolutely terrible. And not only that, but of course, you know, it forced all the employees of these places to be away from their families at the holidays. Yeah. And to deal with the insanity. And it really was insane. Like, honestly, if you’ve seen the beginning of Krampus, that was what it was like.

I did it. I did it twice. Once for myself, I did it to get a Christmas treat because though my partner and I are financially comfortable now, we weren’t always. You know, we were young, right out of college. Sure, yeah. You know, entry level jobs and, and things were And we needed a Christmas tree and you could get, you know, they would take these high price items and drastically, drastically reduce the price.

And so I stood in line at like four o’clock in the morning at Home Depot one time. For a Christmas tree. For a Christmas tree. And raced all of these other middle aged women. Were 

Todd: you elbowing old ladies out of the way? Stepping over children. 

Craig: Not elbowing, but it literally was, like, I grabbed one of the trees, because it was like, you know, it was a specific tree I wanted.

It was like this Martha Stewart tree, pre lit, like, it was all, it was beautiful, and I wanted it. You are so gay. I know, right? I don’t remember if my sister was with me. I may be conflating stories, but I, I, I grabbed the tree, and I started pulling it, and it was like a goddamn cartoon. Like, there was a middle aged woman on the other side of the aisle, pulling it from the other side, like we were tug of war ing over this Christmas tree.

Are you serious? And I got it cause duh, I’m not gonna let some old bitch beat me.

But I think that I also did it one year with my mother because my mother did Black Friday like, like she planned it, like it was mission impossible. And she would recruit. Me and my aunts and other people and like places because Walmart was open 24 hours, but they would line their aisles with these products, but they would cover them in butcher paper, so you didn’t know what anything was.

So you just kinda had to wait until at whatever, four in the morning or whatever, they would rip the butcher paper off, and then it would be a, just a mad grab. And so my mom would take me and my aunt and maybe somebody else and like position us at different parts of the store. And we had lists. We need this and this and this.

These are our top priorities. Wow. And it didn’t even matter, like, if I was grabbing gifts that were ultimately going to be for me, it didn’t matter. Like, they’re saving money. Yeah. And it was nutty. It was absolutely bonkers, uh, and I don’t think that it happens anymore. More and more retail places, um, even grocery stores in the United States are, Closing on Thanksgiving to give their employees the holiday, which I just think is fantastic.

It’s a small gesture in a really trying industry, but it’s a gesture nonetheless, and I appreciate that they’re doing it. And I’m so glad that that craziness, because you would see on the news, people would get in physical fights. People would shoot other people. Yeah. To get that big screen TV or whatever.

It was insane. It’s insane, and it needed to be put a stop to and I’m glad that it was, um, so thank you Pandemic for that one little thing. I mean, 

Todd: maybe I’m also kind of a man of very few needs. I’m always the guy buying the, you know, second or third generation back game console or I’ve got the same TV I’ve had for ages and don’t really have this huge compulsion to get a bigger one.

You know, and so, the kinds of things that would go on sale for Black Friday, like, the deals would look fantastic, but I would look at them and go like, I don’t really care if I get my USB drive for 15 bucks or 7 bucks, like, you know, it’s not that important to me, so I didn’t participate in one of those.

But, somewhere early on in that deal, they did a Cyber Monday, right, where Amazon and all these retailers online, and that I loved, because you can just sit. And God, at work, I would just, like, mostly not get any work done, and I had an office job at that time, so I could just sit down behind a computer and pretend like I was working, but mostly I was checking these sales that would kick off, like, one every hour on all these different websites.

I loved that, and I didn’t get hurt or shot doing that, so that was nice. 

Craig: And that’s how it is now, and now they still call it Black Friday, but it’s like two weeks of deals. It’s just better all around. It’s more convenient. I’m sure that these corporations are still making great money. Well, I, I don’t know because they actually, Bruce Campbell plays the store manager, this takes place in a toy store, it was filmed in, uh, an abandoned Baby’s R Us, and he’s the store manager, and he basically says that Black Friday is like, just a loss leader.

You put these high price items. really low, but that gets people in the door. So you’re taking a loss, you’re taking a loss on those big items, but it gets people in the store and then they do a lot more shopping and spend a lot more money. And that’s where they make their money. Pretty much everything is online in America.

Now, anyway, I don’t know what it’s like in China, but I recently went. To the mall that we frequented when I was young. And it’s a shell of what it used to be. Like, there are lots of empty spaces. But the big department stores are, are still there. But we went to JCPenney, which is a big department store in the States.

My mom had found this deal online, and then she also found it in the store, but you could only get the deal online. So like, if she ordered it online, then they could ship it to the store, but it was already at the store. So she talked to the manager, and he’s like, well, let me look into it. And what the manager told us is that their brick and mortar stores Really, these days, are warehouses.

Oh. It’s just where they store their inventory. It’s like open warehouses, you know, people can come in and shop, but it’s really, the main function of it is just to store their inventory and they sell it all online and just ship it directly from the store. Which I thought was fascinating. It kind of blew my mind.

It is. 

Todd: I mean, things have changed so much. Thank God it’s not as insane as this is, uh, anymore. So, I mean, in a way, the movie’s already a little out of date. You know, 

Craig: the concept is. A little bit. Those stores don’t even exist anymore. You can’t find, you can’t find a brick and mortar toy store like that anymore.

Giant toy store. Toys R Us, Babies R Us, they all shuttered years 

Todd: ago, so. Well, that’s probably why they were able to film it in one. You know, I mean. To be honest, like, part of what makes this movie look so cheap, and I thought that, um, there were parts of this movie that looked really expensive, and a lot of the production that looked really cheap, and some of that was This store looked like it’s shelves were half full.

Craig: Oh yeah, it didn’t look like, and like it didn’t even have shelves. It just looked kind of like a showroom. Like, just a bunch of toys scattered around a big empty space. I mean there were, there were some shelves like around the outside, but the whole center was just this huge open space with just toys.

Scattered throughout 

Todd: and not even toys sometimes like there was like an aisle of lamps and things I mean like if you really started looking behind it almost seemed like they just grabbed whatever shit They could find and at some point decided it doesn’t really matter the stores in chaos by this point You know overrun by the creatures anyway, so no one’s gonna notice if we just throw non toy random things up on the shelves But I noticed The plot is that these, I don’t want to get, I don’t want to talk too much about the plot, I just want to talk about everything I didn’t like 

Craig: about this movie.

Ugh, see and I was getting ready to talk about what I did like, yeah. I mean it centers around, it centers around, uh, these employees of, uh, a toy store and they’re preparing For Black Friday, and then eventually, within like the first ten minutes, they open the doors, and it’s, you know, that crazy Black Friday thing that we were just talking about.

But what I will say that I liked about this movie, and I didn’t hate the movie, I really didn’t. I thought it was kind of fun, I didn’t think it was great, it wasn’t as funny as I wanted it to be. No. But, I really, I, I, everybody in it I liked. I, all of the actors, I liked. I thought that they were good in their roles, and they were fun to be with.

Devan Sawa, I guess, is the main guy. Uh huh. He plays Ken. The movie kind of makes him out like, at first, and I feel like this is very intentional, they try to make him out to be kind of the fun guy. But The movie also then goes out of its way to point out that he’s really too old for that nonsense like yeah Like bro, you’re in your 40s.

You work on the floor at a toy store. You’re dating one of your 20 year old co workers and like skateboarding around the toy store like It may be time to grow up. Yeah. I like Devin Sawa. He, he was in Idle Hands and Final Destination and he’s fun and, and he’s kind of in a renaissance right now. Like, uh, there’s a, a part, there’s a part in the movie where they’re in the break room I think and somebody’s flipping channels on the TV and one of the Chucky movies comes out.

Yeah. Devin Sawa. has been, well, there are three seasons of Chucky, and I know that he’s been in all three of them, but I’ve only seen seasons one and two, in both of which he dies. So, so the character he plays in season one dies, and then he’s just in season two as a completely different character and nobody ever comments on it.

Really? Yeah. Like, he’s a prominent character in both seasons, just a totally different character, and nobody 

Todd: talks about it. They just liked having that actor in there. He worked really 

Craig: well. And he’s good. He is good in that show. There are frankly Too many people to keep track of. Like I was trying so hard to keep track of all these people.

Um, there’s Chris, who’s like the young, newer guy. I would say he looks like he’s somewhere in his twenties. He’s played by a kid named Ryan Lee. And I was looking at this kid thinking, who is he? I know I’ve seen this kid before. And so I looked him up and, uh, he was in super eight. Did you ever see that? Oh yeah.

Mm hmm. I liked it. Yeah, it was good. And, uh, he was also in the TV show that only ran for one season, but I was a big fan of it with Malin Ackerman, uh, trophy wife. And this kid did a lot when he was a kid, but when he was young, his teeth, his front teeth like were super like buck teethy, like, like they jutted out over his lower lip.

But in some of those earlier things that he was in, he was wearing. Like braces, like corrective stuff. And now, he’s super cute. Yeah, he looks nice. A very handsome young man. He’s like a germophobe 

Todd: in this, yeah. 

Craig: Yeah, he’s a germophobe. There’s Marnie, she’s this young brunette. She’s the one that Ken, I guess, kind of thinks they’re dating, but I think she kind of just feels like it’s kind of just like a work thing, you know, like we can mess around at work or whatever.

There’s several others. There’s Archie, who’s played by Michael J. White, who is super familiar, but I didn’t really recognize him for anything. This like super handsome, big black guy, Jonathan, uh, is Bruce Campbell. He’s the boss in the office and Brian is the stereotypically gay. Floor manager. Right. And it’s just, you know, like, it almost feels like a workplace sitcom for the first 10 minutes.

That’s what it’s trying to be. Yeah. Yeah. It’s quippy. They’re kind of trying to establish the relationship between these people. The floor manager is like the uptight one, and Ken Devansawa is the goofy older guy who’s always messing around, and Chris is the younger guy who’s the germaphobe, but he’s really, he’s taking his job seriously and trying to do his best, and um, Marnie is that really cool chick that you knew in high school or college who just didn’t give a f about anything or anybody, and she just did whatever she felt like doing.

There’s the bitchy 

Todd: Anita gal who’s like the goody goody employee of the month, always trying to do the right thing, and doesn’t, only cares about herself, she kind of pops in. I just watched 

Craig: this yesterday and I’ve already completely forgotten her, like I have her in my notes. She’s barely in it. I have her in my notes, but I skipped over it when I was talking about the characters because I was like, I don’t remember who that is.

Todd: It’s honestly so weird because um, and I just think this is emblematic of the whole movie. Like there’s so many missed opportunities and this woman is being set up to be this standard character who’s going to be kind of opposing them at every turn or, you know, she’s. Gonna be so self centered or self devoted to, you know, single mindedly devoted to her job or whatever that she’s gonna be an obstacle.

Craig: Well, and she’s a Karen. She’s a Karen, yeah. 

Todd: But she’s not. Like, she just kind of pops in a couple times, says some douchey things, and 

Craig: goes. Says some douchey things like they Happy Black Friday, Anita. Green 

Todd: Friday. 

Craig: Corporate said Black Friday was racist, so they changed it to Green Friday. Green, like Christmas and money.

Good to know. Oh my God. 

Todd: I know. And that was supposed to be funny though. Like that wasn’t funny. Oh, there’s so much of this movie that 

wasn’t 

Craig: funny. It wasn’t, it, it wasn’t funny, it was, it was kind of frustratingly real. Don’t forget 

Todd: also the older lady, who, uh, is supposed to be funny because she’s got a filthy mouth.

Ugh. You know, I, I, what was 

Craig: her name? She was a customer, wasn’t she? 

Todd: You’re right. I think she was a customer that just got pulled into the employees when things go amok. Because what happens is, there’s a me like a meteor that flies through the ceiling of the store. I was a little confused at the whole intro because there’s kind of a I think I 

Craig: missed that.

What are they like 

Todd: stu yeah, it was too dark, that’s why you missed it. It was like literally dark. And I guess it was the people early stocking the store, like maybe before anybody ever shows up. Like the guys unloading the truck or something like that. And a meteor comes in and they’re sort of the first kills, but it kind of happens off screen.

All you see is this glowing, kind of pulsing pink thing that ends up underneath these. It’s the blob! It is. It’s 100 percent the blob. So that thing is there, and I guess some old lady comes in and sits on the chair, and I guess it infects her? And she’s the first one? And then from then on out It’s not clear, like, in the normal zombie movie, like, you get bitten and you turn, and I think that’s still kind of true.

Yeah. But what also happens is that they open their mouths and this white, fibrous thing shoots out 

Craig: of it. It’s like a tentacle. Like, first it reminded me of the stuff. Yeah. This white Like goo shooting onto people’s faces, but it’s not really goo, it’s more like, it’s more like a tendril or a tentacle or something that, like, attaches usually to their face, but then I think in other times it attached to other parts of people, like their legs or their arms or, and, and regardless of where it gets ya.

Then you’re infected, and then you basically turn into a zombie, but you continue to mutate into like some monster from hell. 

Todd: Yeah, and then you decide to join and meld into, what happens in the middle of the movie is that sort of like they notice, Hey, all the customers are melding together into this giant bobble like creature that’s growing and growing in the center of the store.

Craig: They hear over the radio or something like somebody saying, you know, all these infected people, they, they seem to have a mission. It seems like they’re building something. So this isn’t only happening in this store. It’s happening in other places too. And it’s not that they are physically constructing anything.

And we are. conflating in a couple of minutes what it takes the movie the whole time to tell us. But like there’s these suggestions that they’re drawn towards this central thing and that they’re making something, but it’s really And we see that the blob keeps getting bigger and bigger, but it’s not really until the near, at least the halfway mark, if not later, that we realize that they’re all just kind of joining this mass and becoming part of it.

Todd: So the idea, and I liked what they were doing at the beginning, they were trying a little bit of that shot of the dead kind of thing, where they were at first trying to equate the shoppers, who were not zombies yet. You know with zombies. I love that bit. I did too. It was a clever idea You know, they’re they’re they’re banging at the windows and they’re looking anxious and they’re 

Craig: trying to get in but you know They haven’t opened the store yet, but I liked the way that that was shot because they just looked like An angry mob because they were it was through the window and you were just kind of seeing them in silhouette They may as well have already been zombies, that’s what it looked like.

And I liked that too, I liked the, the juxtaposition, like, it’s, it’s, I don’t think this movie is really trying to make any statement. No, no. You know, we know what Black Friday is and was. It’s just a cultural phenomenon, but I think that they’re just Watch actual footage of Black Fridays, Crazy Black Fridays, and these people look insane.

Oh, yeah. And they look like Like, it’s, it’s crazy. So it just, it works really well. As soon as the people get inside, they start getting infected within moments. Like, you don’t even Yes and no. You barely even get to see any of the crazy retail stuff because people start getting inf And, and as soon then as people A few people get infected and the staff notices, like at first, they’re still trying to deal with them as though they’re customers.

Um, but then when it becomes obvious that there’s something wrong with them, then they evacuate the store and most everybody gets out. Yeah. So it’s just the employees and a handful of infected. I think that’s a missed opportunity, too. It should have been a store full of these things, but I guess that would have been a lot more difficult for them to navigate.

I 

Todd: think, yeah, navigating it, it was a little lazy, or the budget wasn’t there, or something. I just want to run through why this bothered me so much. So, even the scenes when the Black Friday customers are coming in, You know, you get the sense that you’ve already met all the employees in the store. Yeah. And it’s just these, like, not even a dozen people, right?

That’s just these like eight or nine people. Yet the customers come storming in and there’s this montage of them grabbing things off the shelves and it’s just closeups. But anytime they cut to a medium shot or a wide shot, you’d think the store was half empty. Yeah, that’s true. And these employees have all the time in the world to chat with each other, and do their banter, and they’re not doing anything!

They’re barely helping the customers. Uh, you don’t see anybody you see one person at the register, maybe. It’s just like, oh, here’s a shot of these two people, and they’re making some funny joke. Oh, here’s a shot of this person helping this old lady or whatever. But I got none of the sense of this chaos that the movie is supposed to be about.

Yeah, you’re right. It just felt cheap. And then, before they even realize that there’s zombies, but they know something’s going on, or at least a few employees know something is going on, they’re kind of one by one all starting to assemble in the back room. It’s one of these cases where, like, Two people go into the back warehouse room or whatever and they’re arguing about something.

Then a third person joins them, then a fourth person joins them, then a fifth person, and pretty soon everybody we’ve already met is back there. And only one of them has this sense that there was like a really weird customer earlier. I’m sitting here thinking, who’s manning the store? Like they’re all back there having these little bits of business, just being funny.

We know that there’s zombies infecting each other, but we’ve only seen one or two scenes of it. They don’t really know that yet, but somehow, and I don’t even remember how it happens, they end up jumping to this conclusion that they’re all in danger, even though they’ve all been back there and nobody’s even been in the front to witness what’s been going on almost this whole 

Craig: time.

It was just mind blowingly, 

Todd: bafflingly, frustratingly bad. I just, I never felt a sense of urgency, I never felt a sense that this door was being overrun. I felt like these guys could have just sat in the back and twiddled their thumbs the whole time. Zombies weren’t trying to bang at the door and stream into that big swinging wide double door that leads to the stock room that’s in the back in the middle of the store.

They’re all just comfortable back there chatting. And then when they decide they need to finally go out, they all go through the door, and it’s supposed to be this big dramatic scene where all, you know, six or seven of them are lined up and they’re ready to do battle, and the store’s almost already empty by now.

Yeah. 

Craig: To the point 

Todd: where they’re just creeping 

Craig: around. And they split up. Oh. Yeah, like, instead of staying all together, which would have made The most since. They, they split up. And like, I get what you’re saying and you’re not wrong. They’re not pushing 

Todd: hordes 

Craig: back, you know? No, no, they’re running into one zombie every once in a while.

Like, Anita, the bitchy Anita, is a zombie and they have to fight her. And, um, at some point, the bitchy old lady who was, you were right, was the one who like sat on a throne that the blob was under and she got infected. She becomes one of the main Zombies, and her transformation is progressive, but by the end Wouldn’t you say that by the end, when they’re looking all crazy, like their flesh is all, like, dissolved and they’re monstrous?

I really liked that design, and I thought that it was executed well. It was, it was kind of few and far between, but I liked what I saw. 

Todd: One of the good things I’ll say about the movie, and I really, really mean this, the makeup was fantastic. The zombie designs were fantastic, the gore effects were great, most of it seemed pretty practical, I loved that bit of it.

And, you know, they’re all melding together. There were times when that pulsating red thing looked a little too practical. It looked like Trash bags that were kind of being blown open and sucked in with some lights behind them, but for the most part All that stuff was was really nice. The problem was there wasn’t enough of it and there were hordes 

Craig: of them No, no, there were only a couple and even though There weren’t a lot of the monsters or zombies or whatever they did.

I mean it’s getting ready to say it It sounds stupid, but they did meet up with them regularly and there was lots of action like there were lots of fights well like Archie has a big fight with one of the zombies and yeah, and and I liked that action and and like the fighting is it’s good action.

There’s also humor involved, you know, like there’s like physical comedy stuff going on that I liked and that happens multiple times. But you’re right. It’s just like these little isolated incidents were really probably they should have just been able to skirt around these people. Like if they’re in this, if they’re in this big department store and there’s only one or two zombies, like just stay out of their way.

Yeah, don’t draw their attention. It shouldn’t be that 

Todd: hard. And I think the movie is trying at times to convince us that there are zombies trying, you know, trying to come in, like the store is in danger of being overrun. Because at one point, there’s like a little mini mission to like, make sure all the doors are secured, like in the back.

But every time, and people do end up going outside pretty frequently, it’s just dead out there. There’s like one or two zombies maybe running around the corner, but otherwise, there’s, so it’s like you said, it’s like these isolated incidents of fighting, but no real constant ongoing pressure and no sense of danger, because of the pacing.

I mean, those guys, they can have this fight with the zombie, and then suddenly there are five of them arguing about something and being funny and witty, and so all the zombie action stops, all the pressure stops. While they’re at the front of the store. Where’s the holiday 

Craig: bonuses? Are they like in your office or something?

I thought that I told you that there were gonna be no holiday bonuses this year. What the fuck? Jonathan? This is bullshit. Even for you. That’s not what you told me. All you said was that there’d be layoffs after the holidays. Whoa. What the hell? Like who? I mean.

And then, 

Todd: you know, in that way it also suffers from the intruder problem, right? Like there’s this big store that’s nothing but aisles, and like you said, kind of the middle of it’s pretty wide open. You’re gonna see these things coming from a mile 

Craig: away. Yeah, the emergency lights are on. It’s not like they’re walking.

Except at one point, they did a whole charade where they were like, Let’s form a chain of, uh, Because it’s pitch black in here and we can’t see. Excuse me? I can see you. Like, this scene is lit. Like, what are you talking about? It’s stuff like that, and it’s stuff like, I said, you know, there’s fights and there’s comedies, but it’s, uh, jokes like this.

Like, Archie is fighting this zombie, and he gets tentacled on the arm, and then he points, I don’t even know if he has a gun or a weapon or whatever, but he says, Got your doorbusters right here, mothafucka. Like, stupid, stupid stuff like that. Like, I mean, hardy har, I get it. Doorbusters, eee! I assume he’s dead.

I assume he got killed. I didn’t know what happened, but we never see him again. There’s somewhere else Marnie kills like this particularly ugly zombie, and then says Ugh, I don’t think this night can get any worse, and the power goes out, like, come on. Yeah, it’s 

Todd: all this kind of humor. Try a 

Craig: little bit harder.

Just a little. You’ve got really good actors here, I mean, you’ve got Bruce Campbell. Give Bruce Campbell something to do! Yeah. He has nothing to 

Todd: do! Frustratingly so, right? I thought he was gonna get better. And 

Craig: he’s, he’s in it! Oh, he’s in it a lot. See, now when I saw that he was the store manager in the office, again, very much like Intruder.

Wasn’t there that character who just was in the office all the time? Yep. That’s what I thought, uh, Bruce Campbell was gonna be. I was like, oh, they tricked us. This is gonna be a cameo. He’s never gonna come out of that office. No, that’s not true. He comes out. He’s with them the whole movie and he has nothing to do.

Bruce Campbell is hilarious. And he just kind of stands in the background. Yeah. He talks every once in a while, but he doesn’t have 

Todd: anything to say. He doesn’t even get funny lines? Oh, it’s such a, it’s such a waste. 

Craig: No, he doesn’t get funny lines. But when the black gay store manager, when he attacks a zombie, he runs at it and screams, BEYONCE!

Like, that’s his battle cry. Oh, God. Guys. Guys. I think we may need to take a second look at the script. I think we need to call in somebody to punch it up a little bit. Yeah. You know, get some, you know, bigger laughs in there. Let’s find something for Bruce to do. He seems bored. I mean, he’s slaying the mustache but we gotta find something for him to do.

But no. No. Eventually, Ken, the main character. Thinks he got bit by one of the zombies. Later we find out that he didn’t, just Brian, the floor manager, bit him so that they would think he was infected to get rid of him because he thought he was a shitty person. 

Todd: What?! That was, I almost threw something at the screen at that 

Craig: point.

It was the, like, most contrived plot device I’ve seen in a really long time. They just needed, for really no good reason, I guess to build tension or something, they needed to, well, they needed Ken to, you know, do the noble thing and like, stay behind and sacrifice himself because he was a goner anyway. And we’re supposed to care about him, like, he’s got kids, he’s divorced, and he’s got kids and, you know, he can’t be with his kids on Thanksgiving and he really wants to get back to his kids.

And at some point in the movie, he does get a text from his ex wife that says, I’m fine, the girls are fine, um, but he still wants So we’re supposed to have empathy for this guy, and then we’re supposed to think he’s noble when he gets bit and he’s like, You guys go ahead, I’m gonna stay back and I’ll do whatever I can to keep them away, and 

Todd: Well, his whole character is being set up for an extended Die Hard tribute, basically.

He’s, um, Bruce Willis character in Die Hard. It’s Christmas time, he wants to be back to his family, but he’s gotta deal with this issue. And so, as soon as he’s Supposedly bit and they leave him and he goes off to do the noble thing I thought it was going to be funny and cute But I just was rolling my eyes because I didn’t care about any of these people You know where he’s like by himself and he’s in the weeds of the warehouse And he’s ducking around corners, and he’s got like I don’t know if he had a gun or something And, you know, the red lights kind of spinning and things, and I thought, Oh, okay, we got Die Hard here.

Ha ha ha! Every single person in this movie was a cardboard cutout, lame ass, thinly drawn caricature. I think maybe people don’t understand that even though something’s a comedy, and even though it can be screwball, it can be screwball shit. Right? Like the hangover and like office space is kind of like this, right?

A comedy about all the wacky Cardboard cutout characters in an office. But 

Craig: all of those people they have heart. 

Todd: Yes, and they have real relationships Yes You don’t believe that this kind of office and all these people would be in the same room and all this stuff would actually happen But you care about them, right?

They have reality to them and none of these people Did I, for one instance, give a shit about. 

Craig: I blame the writing, because I think that everybody in the movie, I think all the actors did the best with what they had. Yes. You’re right, there’s no you don’t get invested in them because there’s not enough time.

The movie’s really only an hour and twenty minutes if you Take out the credits. It 

Todd: felt longer, but yeah, thank God for 

Craig: that. And it did feel longer, and uh, There are so many characters that you can’t get invested. It would have been better if they had limited it to like three or four. I wanted to like these people.

I really liked, um, Chris. I really liked him. I thought he was great, and I wanted to spend more time with him. I really liked Archie, and he was barely in it at all. I don’t even, well, there’s another like new guy called Emmett, who you meet for five seconds before he goes out and smokes a joint and gets killed, and then he comes back as a zombie and they all recognize him, and good for them, because I certainly didn’t, because I had only met him for five seconds in the beginning, and then I also didn’t realize that Like, the main, one of the main zombies at the end, one of the grossest ones with the greatest makeup, is the old lady bitch customer from the beginning.

I would have never known that had they not told me. Like, the movie makes a point of showing that somebody remembers her because she’s wearing a particular necklace. But, like, they had to, they had to do that. They had to say, hey guys, guys. This is the lady from earlier like they had to show us they had to show us that it was her oh god oh gosh and and and the plot I mean it it’s not slow Paced because things are happening.

There are stupid times where they just take breaks for no reason. Yeah, and you wonder Why don’t you just extend this break indefinitely? You’re fine where you are! Like, uh, the, there’s, there’s a part where they’re like, we’re not gonna let this ruin our Thanksgiving, so they eat some lunch meat, like some turkey lunch meat, and treat it like It’s a big deal.

Yeah. Like it gets serious for a minute. Well, for our last Thanksgiving meal it sure was informative. No. Don’t say that. Don’t say this is our last. I think she was just making a joke. No. I got two kids out there that I plan to see again. Calm down. We get it. You don’t know shit, Chris. You don’t have a I don’t have a what, Ken?

A family that gives a shit about me? Maybe you’re right, but at least I don’t love it here. I don’t love it here. Look at how hard you try to be the coolest person working at We Love Toys! Guys, can we not do this right now? Me? And then somebody, somebody later There’s infighting, and somebody later says, We ate turkey together!

Are you kidding? 

Todd: This scene just drove me nuts. Basically, they’re in the warehouse part, the back of the store, like you said. Perfectly safe, they’ve got all the doors bolted, there’s hardly any zombies in the store anyway. 

Craig: And they’re minding their business! Like, they’ve got a job to do! Like, just leave them alone!

I mean, ultimately, ultimately at the end, they would be in trouble. We’ll get there in a second, but not for now. And they have no idea what’s happening, so they wouldn’t even know about this imminent threat that’s coming. Of course not. 

Todd: You’re right, you’re right, the zombies They’re not even out to eat the people.

Well, I guess. I guess they’re out to infect a certain number of them. Yeah. That’s really unclear now that I actually think about it. 

Craig: Well, the whole premise is unclear. Was there a quota? We, we don’t know what these things are. We don’t know where they came from. We don’t know what their intentions are.

Even at the end. And we never find out. No. We just see what happens. And God knows what happens after that. Right. Anyway, sorry. Back, back to that. Back to the Thanksgiving dinner scene. 

Todd: I thought it was cute that all, they took all of the glowing toys, like, all of the toys, you know, that light up, and piled them all in the middle, almost like it was a little campfire or it was their way of lighting up the room.

It was, that was so cute. Like, there were so many there were lots of little things that would have been 

Craig: cute. But they ended up being throwaways. Yes. Like, there’s a whole goddamn character who is a teddy bear. Yeah, oh god. Like, there’s we hear in the beginning an announcement that this teddy bear has been recalled because it’s malfunctioning or something.

But then we see it. It is, it’s called Dour Dennis, and it’s just like this sad sack teddy bear that’s like, Oh boy, work sure was tough today. Oh man, I sure wish I had friends. It’s voiced by Seth Green, like, and it’s, there’s nothing to it. It contributes nothing to the story except at one point it like shorts out and blows up and I think that that is in some way beneficial to the characters.

But it’s just, it’s just literally sitting motionless in the background. I wanted that thing to get up and walk around. Right. Do something. Because it’s, like, you made it a whole character, you cast Seth Green as a voice actor, who Seth Green I think is fantastic, and he does tons of voice work, you know, he voiced Howard the Duck in the Marvel Universe, and he does a lot of voice, I’m not gonna speculate what else, I just know that he does a lot of voice work, and he’s a funny, funny guy, and you cast this guy, and just totally waste him, I mean that shouldn’t surprise me since they did the same thing with Bruce Campbell, you know?

Todd: If you’re gonna do a running gag, the gag needs to run, you 

Craig: know? And it needs to be funny! It 

Todd: needs to be funny and it needs to run. At least by the rule of three. Yeah. Oh god. I think we see it twice in odd times and it, there’s no payoff at the, you know, it just, it just roll away like you said. Then after they have this moment, which is super contrived and super typical and super written where they all come together But then you know, they tell each other what their faults are, but then also tell each other what they like about each other and I don’t know, it’s supposed to be bonding, or supposed to be angsty, at the end of the day, I don’t even remember why they decide they need to escape in the truck.

Isn’t that what happens? Well that’s what they decide, 

Craig: like, I guess that the truck is backed up to the loading dock? And they’re like, oh, 

Todd: we can get out by the truck, and uh But nothing 

Craig: comes of that! That is a good 20 minutes of the movie, is them getting in the truck, and like, they get in the back part, and then Chris is like, well, I can squeeze out through the top and get into the cab, and we’ll drive away.

Well, he gets into the cab, but he doesn’t know how to drive the truck, and so then, for reasons unknown, he just gets out and walks around a little bit. Yeah! Accomplishes nothing except for drawing the attention of the monsters. Then 

Todd: he gets back into the truck, Into the back. And they all get 

Craig: out of it, like the, the monsters attack and I don’t know, somebody’s like, well we’re safe in here, which, yeah, duh.

And then somebody else is like, no, they’re super strong, they’ll tear 

Todd: this thing apart. Then they open the back, and they stand there, like, they’re gonna go back in the store and suddenly the truck’s not a problem anymore. The truck is just sitting there. Suddenly not being attacked by zombies, nobody’s tearing anything apart, and Bruce Campbell can stand there and say some supposedly badass things.

For about five minutes, before they decide to go back into the store. And they have some other plan, which involves going onto the roof. 

Craig: Oh yeah, and they end up on the roof. Meanwhile, Ken is down there in the store, still dealing with the zombies. Doing the die hard thing, yeah. You know, yeah, you know what would be a good idea right now?

I should put on some goddamn roller skates. What was that about? What was that about? He literally, without explanation, sits down, puts on roller skates. This is And then is just in roller skates for a while. 

Todd: It does him no good. Again, I would have thrown something at the screen at that point if I had realized the roller skates would have no payoff.

They had no payoff! 

Craig: Nothing happened! And then I think he eventually just takes them off again, like he just felt like skating for a minute. But he, I, I think this is when he sees and we see that they’re all kind of coming together and the blob is getting bigger and bigger and bigger and then the other people are on the roof and he ends up on the roof too, but the blob is now so big that it like breaks through the roof and then they jump off, well, no, I lied, Ken’s not up there, he never gets up there, but the other ones are all up there, they, uh, they jump off into a dumpster.

And then, they see that this blob is turning into a kaiju. Yeah. I think somebody even says like, Holy shit, it’s King Kong! Or something like that. But it basically becomes just an enormous, two faced, mutated Zombie, but it’s huge. It’s like the thing. It reminds me of the end of the gate when that giant Oh, yeah, it comes out and it’s big and it’s huge and it’s scary and it’s totally stationary

Todd: Flames by the way licking up all around it I’m pretty sure that you just stood there and let it cook the flames are gonna take care of 

Craig: that thing It does kill Brian in a really funny way. Like he tries to to store manage it, like he like tries to talk to it like it’s a customer, which is so stupid. Um, and the way that it kills him is it just like flicks him, flicks him.

And he like flies through the air. It’s like, ah, and then he’s 

Todd: gone. What were they thematically trying to do here? There were these lame attempts at trying to connect the movie to the plight of an employee or the customer employee relationship. 

Craig: I just have a feeling that they thought that they were really funny and it’s not.

Like, these, these jokes, I, I see what you did there. But, like, it’s, it’s not. It’s not funny. And so then Ken comes out and they’re like, oh my god, you’re alive! And, like, Ken and Chris had fought earlier and they had said mean things to each other so they have to, like, take a second to, like, make up and Kiss or something.

I don’t know. And then, uh, Chris is like, I have a plan. So he jumps in a tiny forklift and starts driving towards the monster. What’s his plan? What is the plan? And it moves, it’s moving at like one mile an hour, like it, he could have walked faster. Oh. And eventually, I don’t know if this was his plan, it’s crazy, the, the monster shoots a tentacle and grabs onto the thing, and he like, uh, the forklift, and he like, puts it in reverse and floors it, so it’s like a tug of war, and then at the last second, he, Throws it in neutral, jumps out, and the tentacle thrusts the forklift at the monster with such force that it impales itself in the 

Todd: face.

Yeah, like, it’s huge ass face. You didn’t plan that! It’s huge ass face, it gets poked in the eye, and I thought And then the monster’s suddenly going down, I was like, Is the eye its weakness? I just don’t understand. 

Craig: It pulls the forklift out and it’s just standing there like spewing blood for a while and they’re like, Oh no, it didn’t work.

And then it just collapses into the store. And the store collapses around it and they all get in the car and they’re driving away. And I don’t know, they have some stupid dialogue. Oh, they go, Oh, what are 

Todd: we doing? Don’t we need to go, don’t you want to 

Craig: get pancakes? Oh yeah, uh, we should get some pancakes 

Todd: first.

Craig: Yeah, pancakes has been like a running It’s not fair to call it a joke. This girl that he’s got this thing with at work, there’s a whole thing about they’re not really in a relationship, and he’s like, but I was gonna take you out for pancakes! Like, oh, right, that’s the sign of a relationship, if you have pancakes.

Ugh, stupid. So then, they drive away, and we see on the horizon, against the dark sky, that these giant kaiju Are all over the place. 

Todd: There’s another one. Was there more than one? I just saw one. Oh yeah. There were at least two or three. Oh, on your tiny screen you saw one. I didn’t know. I did. 

Craig: I did. Wow. And that’s it.

That’s the end of that movie. I 

Todd: was, I was gunning for the end of this movie. This would have been a movie I would have put in like, uh, speed and a half if, you know, three quarters of the way through. I had realized it was gonna be like this, cause I, it was just a chore for me to get through the inanity of the whole thing.

Ugh, I just didn’t enjoy myself, man. I’m sorry, I didn’t enjoy myself at all watching this, and I wanted to so badly. 

Craig: Yeah, I did too, and I was disappointed too, but I would still recommend it. Are you kidding me? No, I really would. I mean, it’s, it’s like, watch it on Thanksgiving, or Black Friday, or during the Christmas season, because there’s a lot of Christmas.

There’s a lot of fun, like there’s Christmas music that they didn’t want to pay a lot of money, um, for the Christmas music, so. I don’t know who it was. Somebody just played, like, live on a keyboard, and, and they, uh, recorded it. When the crowd is released into the store, the song, I was listening to the lyrics, the song was like, I, I don’t have any idea what the melody is, maybe you can find it, but, the words were, Christmas is cancelled this year.

Let’s get the f out of here. Christmas is cancelled forever. And there were other funny musical parts too. The writing is bad. That’s what the problem is because it’s not shot terribly. There, there aren’t enough extras to make it seem believable, but it’s the cinematography isn’t bad. I think that the acting is, is good.

It’s fine. But they were just very, very limited by the 

Todd: writing. The lame dialogue. 

Craig: The very, very lame dialogue. The, the story is ridiculous, but most horror movies are. I liked these actors. They were I mean, they were good looking. They were I was totally fine with watching them for an hour and twenty minutes.

It’s not a great movie, but I do think I don’t know, if you’re just looking for something not to really, you know, put a lot of thought into, just to Something to decorate your house? Yeah, put it on while you’re decorating the Christmas tree. That would be perfect. I don’t know 

Todd: man. Oh perfect Well, you definitely wouldn’t feel like you missed anything if you turned away from the screen But it might want to make you throw your your ornaments across the room from time to time.

I don’t know man I wish I could make some apologies for this movie. Like you said the writing is terrible, but the writing is everything I mean, it doesn’t matter that the picture looks good, or that the actors are cool looking people that I know can act. Yeah. You know, a horror movie has a fairly low bar for us to be entertained.

A comedy, on the other hand, generally has a pretty high bar. Comedy just falls flat so easy if all the right pieces are not in place. And, god, this movie, nothing was in place as far as the comedy went. And it’s supposed to be a horror comedy, and so I did not find it entertaining. And, it’s not gonna be scary, cause it’s a horror comedy, uh, a lot of horror comedies can be scary, but this one, like we said, had no pressure, you didn’t really even feel like the zombies were really after him half the time, they had their own business to attend to, as you said, and everything was kind of unclear, as to, like you said, the stakes, and What they were trying to do and, oh, just a jumbled mess of a movie.

A lot of really great ideas. Yeah. Really great ideas. And like you said, the director of this movie did a great job with the cinematography and staging scenes and things like that. He directed Aerosmith 

Craig: videos. Yeah, lots of videos. I think that maybe you and maybe both of us would be more forgiving of this movie if it were a 40 to 60 minute One off in an anthology.

Yeah. Like if this were an episode of Creepshow, and it was 40, 50 minutes, I think if they had tightened it up a little bit. Could have been. Because I do like the premise, I, I do. And, and I, I think there’s something interesting going on with the monster. I think they take a little bit too long. to reveal it.

I just don’t feel as strongly negatively about it as you do. I agree with you that it’s not a good movie, but, um, I don’t, I, I, I didn’t hate it. It wasn’t painful for me to watch. So do it, do with that what you will listeners. Uh, As of the recording of this episode, it is streaming for free on Crackle. Yeah.

So, uh, if you find yourself in a bind where you have nothing else to watch, you could probably do worse, in my opinion. Absolutely. 

Todd: You could definitely do worse. We’ve done worse, for sure. I think it’s about time to hear from another patron. How about you, Craig? 

Craig: Well, it’s my most favorite part 

Todd: of the show.

We’re going to have to get a lot more people sending stuff in or else. No, 

Craig: that’s okay. It’s okay. When they dry up, they dry up. That’s fine. Sorry. Uh, who are we going to listen to this time? How about 

Todd: Michael? Hey, Todd 

Craig: and Craig, this is Michael, and I just wanted to thank you guys for a very enjoyable podcast.

Um, back in the summer of 2018, leading up to Halloween 2018, which has always been my favorite franchise. Halloween 4 was the first horror movie I remember seeing. It scared me to death. Um, I was listening to a different podcast, and then you were probably the second one I ever found. And while some of them can be a little, I’m trying to be nice here, um, self important and, I don’t know, too pigeon holed, I feel like you guys are very, um, good at showing your love for the films, but also having fun and just being yourselves.

I think that’s really great. I think you both have a good sense of humor. I’m also from a small town. So it sounds like both of you guys, one of you is from rural Missouri. I think as a teacher, my mom and my grandmother are both teachers. Uh, or were, they’re both retired, but yeah, I just really appreciate you guys a lot.

Appreciate hearing about your, your, your lives and your, your love for these movies. And I, you know, I love specific series and things, but I also really liked the fact that you guys just watch pretty much anything. Sometimes Craig doesn’t like what you pick Todd, but I find it very entertaining and I really appreciate you guys and I thank you so much for doing this podcast and I love that I’m a Patreon now.

So have a 

Todd: great day. I also find it entertaining when you don’t like what I pick, Craig. 

Craig: I know you do. You do it on purpose. It’s one of 

Todd: my favorite things over 

Craig: the years. I don’t do that to you. But, uh, that was really nice. And, and, you know, we hear that sentiment a lot. That, um, you know, I’m not gonna say anything.

I, I really don’t listen to other horror podcasts. I would like to, I just haven’t really stumbled on any. I, I, there are only a couple of podcasts that I listen to. So, uh, if, if you all know any other good horror podcasts, you know, I, I assume that if you like ours, that we would have similar tastes. So, um, let us know, but we’ve heard that before that, like, we just don’t take ourselves too seriously.

And it just seems like we’re having fun. What other way is there? I don’t understand a different way to approach it. Like why would you even want to do it any other way? That doesn’t make sense to me that I do understand. You know, I, I really enjoy hearing, I’m loving these. Voice messages, by the way. Thank you, Michael.

That was very sweet, um, and I really appreciate it. I love that part of it, but another, the big reason that we do it is because We have fun talking to each other. Yeah. Like, if it felt like a job, either one of us would quit immediately, you know what I mean? Well, 

Todd: it’s literally the pact we made with each other, right?

Like, as soon as it stops being fun, we’re gonna stop doing it. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I have looked for other horror podcasts, and I think, um, we have the kind of podcast that we have because this is what we would want to hear. And I’m sure that’s probably true for about anybody who’s out there creating anything.

At least I hope it is. I guess. People create things for different reasons and that’s probably true. I’m sure there are people who very intentionally put together shows that they’re trying to sell or they’re trying to appeal very desperately to a particular market or, or whatever. Or just, once again, the kind of thing that they like that I don’t particularly care for.

Like, I don’t really want to hear somebody go on and on about all the latest horror news, you know, I feel like I could just read that online faster. So that’s not something I want, so it’s not something that I would be excited about adding to our podcast, you know. I’m the kind of guy who I would love to hear another podcast like ours, and not just about horror movies, but really about any movie or any book.

It’s just two people who are just discussing that, you know, don’t go off on crazy tangents, don’t spend the first ten minutes. Bantering about how their day went or talking about people who I don’t know who they are. Inside jokes that 

Craig: I don’t know. We just did that. We bantered before this movie for like 20 minutes.

Yeah, but you know I’m 

Todd: gonna cut most of that out. Only the patrons are hearing that shit. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 

Craig: But yeah, but those, those are the types of podcasts I really only listen to a couple, but I, I listen to them pretty religiously.

I, I want to laugh and have a good time. Yeah. And it’s, it’s much easier to do that when you’re laughing with somebody. You know, when, when, when the hosts or, or the hosts and their guests are having fun with each other. Then I’m having fun, and I’m laughing and having a good time right along with them, and that’s what I want to do for other people, too.

I just want to laugh and have a good time. I don’t, we don’t take this super seriously. I mean, we, we try to provide some insight or things that maybe you wouldn’t otherwise know about these movies or whatever, but I just, I just want to have a good time and, and allow other people to have a good time with us.

That’s 

Todd: That’s the best part of this. Well, we have no pressure. We have that luxury, right? Like we’re just doing this for fun. So, uh, so yeah, it’s, it’s fun for us. And I, maybe that just comes through, right? If it’s fun for us, it doesn’t feel like a chore then, uh, hopefully, I guess that’s what makes it fun for other people to hear and.

Maybe that explains 

Craig: that. Thanks, Michael. And shout out to your mom and grandma. Teachers, teachers 

Todd: are awesome. Yeah, they are. Yeah, thanks, Michael. Glad you’re having fun. Alright, until next time, I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Just 12 years ago, Scott Cawthon was making mildly successful Christian videogames. Now, he’s at the helm of the biggest horror box-office hit of 2023, and what is sure to become the next big horror franchise.

This week, we couldn’t resist discussing Five Nights At Freddy’s, along with the video game series that inspired it. Despite negative critical reviews, it seems to be a hit with audiences. How many of you have played the games? If you’re a fan of the games, how did you feel about the film? Let us know, because it seems like there will be at least two more coming down the pike.

Five Nights At Freddy’s (2023)

Episode 370, 2 Guys & A Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well this week we are back with, uh, another new movie. This one is fresh off the grill. Five Nights at Freddy’s. Maybe one of the first PG 13 movies we’ve done in a while. You think? Maybe, I don’t know. When was the last PG 13 movie we did?

I have no idea.

Well, um, you picked this movie, right, Craig? What made you decide to do Five Night at Freddy’s? Suggest it for today. Well, I kind of picked 

Craig: it. I just, I like doing new movies and I like seeing new movies and I like talking about them and I feel like when something just comes out, you know, it’s on people’s minds.

People are excited about it. They’re going to see it. They may want to talk about it or listen to us talk about it. Yeah. So last week when we were talking about what we were going to do this week, I just said, you suggested something, a tribute or something, I think. And I said, well, there’s a bunch, there’s a lot of new stuff out.

Right now and I just started listing stuff off and as soon as I said five nights at freddy’s you were like, oh, let’s do that So I didn’t so much pick it as as uh Suggest it but I was excited because i’m not even really sure why I think it’s just because I Have known i’ve been aware That, um, they’ve been trying to make this movie for a long time.

Like since 2014, 2015, something like that. It’s gone through different studios. It’s gone through different directors and stuff. And I remember reading, you know, all the times that it was supposed to happen and it just, things fell through. And then, so when it finally happened, I was like, Oh. Well, I’ve been hearing about this movie for years.

Yeah, right. There must be, there must be something to it. And I know that it’s based on a video game, but I’m hoping that that’s where you can inform me more because I know nothing about. Ah. And I know that it’s not just a video game. Now it’s like a whole world of 

Todd: video games. Yeah, there’s like nine main video games and a bunch of smaller ones that are offshoots and some fan ones that…

Have kind of been funded by the author of the original game. So you you’ve never played it. No Actually, this wasn’t even on my radar I also knew it they’ve been talking about pretty much ever since the game came out and got popular I never imagined that it would ever come out I mean, I figured it would probably come out eventually because it’s become such a Infamous video game and kind of a cultural touchstone.

I feel like even people who aren’t into gaming at least have heard of this at some point. I think people are 

Craig: familiar with the imagery. Yeah. The images of those animatronics. Um, I’ve seen it around. Like, I feel like It’s in the pop culture zeitgeist and I think that you’re probably right that some people don’t even know where it’s from But the imagery is familiar 

Todd: Yeah And I didn’t even know this movie was finally coming out until I was in Thailand a couple months ago And I saw the the previews for I was like, holy crap Where have I been like I didn’t realize it was actually happening the video game has a very interesting History behind it.

I remember when it came out in 2014 because I’m a bit of a gamer and yeah What happened was basically there’s this guy named Scott Cawthon, a devout Christian, was actually making Christian oriented games Founded a software company to do it. It was kind of a one man show more or less Uh, I think he had some friends from time, time and time again, but mostly all on his own.

He was making Christian themed RPGs and things, not really making enough to pay the bills. He, he kind of went to just doing real quickie, like mobile games or flash games and stuff online. But they’re all family oriented and, and um… had this kind of message behind it. He came out with this game called Chipper and Sons Lumber Company, which was about a bunch of beavers and some different characters and I think it was sort of a a resource management game where you’re trying to like harvest lumber and build things or something like that.

Sure, sure. But that game got a little infamous because people picked up on the character designs. You know, he did all this himself with like, some 3D rendering tools. And this was 2014. You know, if you’re not so good at it, maybe you’re, you’re a one man show. Uh, the results may be less than stellar. And people commented about how freaky these beaver characters looked in his game.

And so it was being laughed at, like this game is scary. It’s supposed to be this cute, funny little kid’s game, but these characters are freaky. So he actually was very depressed for a little while and then was like, well, then. I’m going to make a horror game, you know? And so he used these characters and he came up with this concept, which I think is pretty smart.

And I’m kind of surprised nobody’s done it before. At least the idea that they’re, now they’re these animatronics that come to life in an old sort of Chuck E. Cheese style pizzeria family fun center. When the game came out, he, like I said, he just repurposed those models for the game, said alright, I’m just gonna embrace the creepiness of it, and really amp it up, and it came out in 2014, and uh, was posted on Steam, and instantly became popular because YouTubers were playing it, you know, it was like the let’s play type videos, and so they’re like laughing and freaking out, the game is really all about jump scares, you are a guy who’s sitting in a chair, you don’t move around, it’s just You know your point of view and you’re confronted with a bunch of screens in front of you surveillance cameras And the idea is you have to survive five nights as a night security guard in Freddy fazbear’s pizzeria It’s it’s just a Chuck e cheese type knock.

Yeah, the idea is that you have limited electricity For some reason and these animatronics come to life for some reason like initially the explanation is well They need to be allowed to be sentient because if they just sit there their servos, you know go bad So they need to be allowed to move around but then if they get homicidal and so for some reason There’s very little electricity in this building throughout the night And so you’re sitting there and all of your controls are basically you look at all the monitors and you can decide to turn the lights on and off in different rooms and you have Two doors that lead to your security thing, but in order to keep them closed and locked, that uses electricity.

And so, you’re just basically staring at these monitors, and uh, watching your electricity go down, so then you turn off the lights in a room, and you turn off the lights in another room. But you know these things are walking around potentially, so you turn on the lights in another room, and suddenly, them’s missing.

Or you turn on the lights in another room, and suddenly, like, one of them’s staring up at the camera, and you can see it’s getting closer, and so, you know, with kind of a map in front of you, you can see where they might be, based on their security cameras, and know when to close and lock your doors.

Otherwise, there’s a jump scare. One of them will get into your room and just go, ARGH! Kind of right in front of you, and your face on the screen. I’ve played it a couple times. It’s not my cup of tea, because it’s really, really hard. Really? Yeah, it’s really difficult. I mean, I think if you were dedicated, you were like, I want to really…

figure this game out you could sit down and have the patience to kind of sort that out but otherwise I lost interest after about 20 30 minutes. I was 

Craig: gonna say like the way you described it I said that sounds really fun for about five minutes but like what happens like I don’t get it like aside from the obvious it wouldn’t be a very fun game why wouldn’t you just Keep the doors locked all the time, 

Todd: like because keeping the doors closed runs the electricity down, and once your electricity’s run out, the doors open.

Okay. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, you’re totally exposed. Yeah, so as a game, I think it was kind of middling like the mechanics of it, but. It really resonated with the public, uh, the gaming public and the YouTube public as far as its jump scares and the craziness of it. And so, he immediately made sequel after sequel and then started adding actual lore to it.

And I think another thing that has made the game so popular is that within the later games, he’s added minigames. Yeah. Which are referenced in the credits to this, to this movie. And, um, When you beat those minigames, you’ll unlock little hidden bits of the story, like of the backstory, and so it’s been one of those things where there are easter eggs he’s put in there, and little minigames he’s put in there, where he doesn’t make it clear up front, even if you play through the whole game, like what all the little Backstory details are like, why are these things, you know, who made them and what’s the whole, you know, and so it just, you know, it makes it more interesting.

It gives people some more to do some more to talk about online, something to make YouTube videos about. And so it’s gone on for nine official games and there’s a number of side games. He’s written some books, some novels on it, trying to get this movie made for a decade and finally it happened. So here we are today.

Highly anticipated Five Nights at Freddy’s movie. 

Craig: Right, right. And I want to talk about it, but my lingering question is, like, for those nine main games, is it, does it remain sit behind screens? Or did it, did it evolve to, like, an RPG or something? 

Todd: I’m not an expert, but I did kind of, because I haven’t played them all, but I did kind of walk through them a little bit while I was, uh, preparing for this.

Uh huh. I think the sequel is very similar. Most of the games you do not move from where you are. But you might not be in that room. One of the games, you’re even in a bedroom. Like, the concept is that the characters have followed you home, or have been sent to your house. And so you’re in your bed, and, uh, you know, they might be coming down the hallway, or coming through your closet, or something like that, and you have to do some kind of management there.

I’m not exactly sure how that works. One of the games in the series, I believe, It opens up the, the ductwork for the player to actually move through. So you can move from room to room only through the ductwork. But most of them are, yeah, just kind of more simple. Sit in one place and… Is it a PC game? Oh, it’s available for every platform.

It started out as a PC game and once it got popular, uh, you know, it was remade for every, every console platform you can think of, including your phone. In fact, I’m pretty sure the version I ended up playing it on. Was an Android version. Gotcha. 

Craig: Interesting. Interesting! I really, I didn’t know any of that, I just knew it was a video game.

Yeah. And I, I liked the imagery. I think it’s a cool idea to, you know, because this movie was in limbo for so long, and there were multiple directors, there were multiple scripts, two other movies came out before it. Clearly based on the same premise. Like, Uh, the Banana Splits movie, they based on the Banana Splits show from like the 1970s, I think.

But it’s the same exact thing. It’s just, you know, animatronics coming alive and going on a murderous rampage. And then, Nick Cage was in another one. Yeah. Willy’s Wonderland. Willy’s Wonderland, which we’ve talked about before. Yeah, we have. We’ve talked about doing it and we just 

Todd: haven’t. I’ve been wanting to do it because I looked at it and I was like, Oh, that’s basically Five Nights at Freddy’s.

Why isn’t it? Five Nights at Freddy’s, you know, like I 

Craig: just think it’s because this one took so long to come out. In fact, there’s speculation that the Banana Splits movie is based on a script that was supposed to be Five Nights at Freddy’s, one of the scripts that got rejected. Well, 

Todd: since we’re talking about this, there is a Reddit thread that Scott Cawthorn, the creator himself, who wrote the script for this movie, along with a couple other people, he posted where he outlined very briefly all of the different scripts Ideas that they went through.

Do you want to do you want to hear him real quick? Sure, so the first one he called the F screenplay The basic setup was that they’re a group of teenage troublemakers who break into Freddy’s and chaos ensues That’s your pretty typical sure Yeah or a movie trope thing and any he and he writes the problems with that that like although it was a pretty basic setup there Were a lot of odd choices in there that only got weirder as the story continued And it ended with the protagonist in a secret underground animatronic factory that was designing robots for the government.

Ooh. And he was like, yeah, I mean, it just strayed a little too far from the source material. And so they tossed it. Then there was the plushies take Manhattan screenplay. Literally, they just take Manhattan. Okay. There was the random Charlie screenplay, where Charlie and his friends sneak into Freddy’s after hours to retrieve a lost toy.

And I think Charlie is a character from the game series. Okay. And he said that although the, the characters in here shared the name of familiar characters with the Saviors, they really had nothing to do with the game and book counterparts, so it felt just like it was a little too loosely based. So they, they strapped that.

Now, the fourth screenplay they were looking at was called the Silver Eyes screenplay, which was based on a novel that he wrote. I think it was his first Five Nights at Freddy’s novel, called Silver Eyes. And they worked it up over the course of a year, trying to find the right approach. to the story from the first book.

But then, um, he said he just was not very experienced at writing screenplays, he didn’t do a very good job of it, it suffered from his inexperience, and even though he had help it just, it just couldn’t save it. He decided at that point to focus on making a screenplay from the games, and not from the books.

The other screenplay idea was called a pawn shop screenplay, where a kid who watches after a pawn shop… Finds trouble when an animatronic is brought in and it turns out that Freddy’s has been robbed and the animatronics were taken to different locations for sale And they all sort of come to life to retrieve that one That’s the pawn shop and then that kid and his friends all get roped into the adventure.

Okay I could see that one. Yeah, and they said that was not enough horror. It was more after school adventure. And then there was the Cassidy screenplay. And I don’t know, there’s My god, how many of them are there? There’s, uh, there’s a few more. I’ll just I’ll make it quick. Okay. The Misfit Kids screenplay.

Single mom brings her kid into a new town. Kid finds Freddy’s hilarity insane. It wasn’t a bad setup, but he said it just didn’t work. The problem was just having a reason for this kid to go to Freddy’s and keep going there to have his misadventures, right? There was the Ghost Tracker screenplay where a group of amateur ghost hunters sneak into the abandoned Freddy’s, which is also another common setup, right?

But, again, like, how do you give these characters a connection to Freddy’s? And too much of the story went into their backstories, basically. Then there was the insane screenplay, which he calls it. This was another Ghost Tracker type variation, but this one involved the Funtime animatronics. underground ball pit tunnels and a marionette out for revenge.

And he said, as, as some of the other screenplays ventured a little too far into adventure, this one went too far into action. It was just too all over the place with too many characters doing too many things. Finally, after all this, they came to this, what he calls the Mike screenplay, which said, He said it made so much sense that he doesn’t know why he didn’t think of it before.

And he felt like it had the best pieces from all the previous screenplays, with all the right stakes and motivations and characters and things, with a good central story and scary enough, so. There you have it. There’s the background of, uh… What took so long to get this movie going? You know, I think about, that’s kind of fascinating, right?

Like, we never see this sausage being made. We always hear about it, but you never hear about, like, this writer was brought in, and then he got canned, and then this writer was caught into, then they scrapped that script, and two guys other, and then they reworked a script from another movie into this. You know, you always hear those things.

It’d be interesting to hear more of the details, you know? What did it start out as versus what it became? So, it was really nice of him to post that Reddit thread, I thought. 

Craig: Yeah, that, that’s cool. I mean, it’s, it’s cool history. It’s just interesting that they, I don’t know, they, those all sound nutty, but like, 

Todd: this movie’s nutty too.

It 

Craig: is. It’s, it’s real. The script really is a mess.

It is a mess. I just, I kept thinking it so many times, like, Why is this happening? Like, why? Like, they, like, it’s probably, what, about halfway into the movie that they realize that The animatronics are sentient, and they keep going back there! 

Todd: Yeah! What are you doing? 

Craig: The choices they’re making are 

Todd: fascinating, and then it almost seems like the animatronics are 

Craig: okay.

It’s just, it’s just bizarre. Well, they have, they have fun, they have fun, sometimes they like build forts and lay down and take naps together, like, it’s, it’s very strange. Bizarre. And the backstory is very strange. Gosh, here’s the thing. Like, I wanted to really like this movie. I thought that it had a lot of promise.

I was excited about, I love the look of the animatronics. I love the design. And I thought that it could be really scary. I was surprised. Because I didn’t know much about it. I, you know, I just pulled up the IMDB page so I would know the actors names, uh, and characters names, and, uh, it was PG 13, and that really surprised me.

Mm hmm. And I was like, that’s okay. You know, uh, there’s lots of good PG 13 horror movies. I’m not mad about it, that it’s PG 13, but I really think that they, they could have gone a lot farther and a lot gorier, and I think that this type of story kind of calls for that. Yeah. Otherwise… It feels a little cute.

You know what I mean? 

Todd: It’s a little cutesy. I just wrote down a sentence when I was done watching the movie. I was like, this movie is really just a big, silly, convoluted piece of ridiculousness. That’s kinda how I felt when I was done with it. Yeah, it 

Craig: is convoluted. The backstory is convoluted. We can go through the plot because it won’t take long.

Um, because it’s pretty simple. But there’s this whole backstory involving a multitude multitude multitude Of murdered children whose bodies were chopped up and put in those animatronic costumes. Yeah. And nobody ever looked in there because why would you? That’s what one character says, like, nobody ever looked in the costumes because why would you?

Why would you not? I know. Like, if you’re looking for kids! Oh my 

Todd: god. That was my big lingering question. I was like, as, as, it just seemed to get crazier and crazier the more the backstory I read. And I think it’s probably about as much a convoluted mess as the games are. Mm hmm. Because as I was reading a little bit of the lore from the games, I was like, oh, well, this is why.

This is the lore from the games. It might even, it even seems to be a rather simplified version of the lore from the games, and you know what that’s like. You’re, you’re writing one, you write one thing, you don’t think you’re gonna have a sequel, then you’re making a sequel, you don’t think you’re gonna have a third.

The Saw movies get insanely convoluted because, you know, nobody mapped this shit out. When they made the first one, you know, and so I forgive the guy for, I mean, good for him for like trying to put some story in his game and really make, give it a really rich and interesting mythology, but it sounds like it’s convoluted as hell and that this movie just takes it.

But 

Craig: if I were a fan of the games, I would think that those things would be really satisfying because even if they were convoluted, you would still feel like you were like building. A lore like building and, and, and you would feel like I’m constantly finding these new Easter eggs. I’m constantly learning new things.

I think that that would be really satisfying, right? Just throwing it all at the wall in one movie. I’m kind of like, what? All right. So the movie is about PETA from the hunger games. What’s his name? Uh, Josh Hutcherson. Yeah. Josh Hutcherson plays Mike, a grownup. Josh Hutcherson can’t play a grown up. 

Todd: Yeah, right?

That was the first unbelievable thing about this movie. It was 

Craig: very strange. Okay, so, and, and then I’m like, Wait, he has like a 11 year old kid, but it turns out it’s, it’s not his kid. It’s his 

Todd: sister, which didn’t make sense to me. God, 

Craig: it doesn’t make sense. I don’t know how detailed we want to get to it, but like, okay.

So his parents apparently are dead and he is fast. Oh God. Just thinking about how to retell it makes it so convoluted. Like what details do I include? Like in the beginning, they make a big deal. Out of the fact that he’s like, studying dream theory, and he believes that you can remember every single thing that’s ever happened to you in your life, it’s just some of it’s repressed, and you can bring it out in dreams, and if you can remember it right, You can change things?

It’s weird. Is that what 

Todd: he thinks? Well, initially, what he seems to think and what he seems to be telling people is there’s some detail about this incident. Basically, when he was a kid and his family was camping, his little brother ran off and he was supposed to be looking after him. He ended up getting taken and never found.

So, abducted, basically, by some guy in a car that drives off through the woods. And, uh, and this has been troubling him his whole life. And so, like you said, he keeps intentionally… Dreaming to relive this very same experience night after night, like he has cues. They camped in the wilderness of Nebraska, he’s got a poster of the Nebraskan wilderness above his head.

He puts on the sounds of the nature and everything in his ears and, and, and, uh, everything so that he will dream this dream over and over again. And initially it sounds like he’s At least, it’s some character he explains this to. It seems like he’s trying to remember the detail of the person driving the car.

Yeah. But then later in the movie, the ghosts accuse him of actually thinking that he could change it. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. It’s weird. And it’s sad. I mean, that, that whole, that, that’s a kind of gut wrenching scene when you see his brother being kidnapped and looking out through the back windshield of the car at him.

It’s horrifying. It’s, it’s scary. Um, I, I had, I had a recurring nightmare when I was a kid that I was with my parents somewhere and… We were leaving and I got in the back seat of their car and the car started pulling away and I looked out the back like that kid was and I saw my parents looking for me and I was in the wrong car.

Todd: Oh shoot. Are you kidding me? Yeah. That’s like you were his, his brother Garrett in this movie. 

Craig: Oh my gosh. And I, I remember waking up so scared and that’s it. That was the end. Nothing else happened. Just. Just being driven away and seeing my parents looking for me, but it was super scary. So he’s a security guard 

Todd: somewhere in the shopping mall.

Craig: I guess I think they said some sometime later, somebody says you were a security guard at a convenience store or something. I don’t know, but he’s in a mall and he has a security guard shirt on and he sees. A little kid kind of standing by himself, and then he sees a grown man kind of sternly and bruskly grab this kid and whisk him away, so he chases this kid, this guy down, attacks him, like, tackles him into a fountain, and beats the crap out of him.

Beats him brutally. Little… Baby Josh Hutcherson. Yeah, and of course, this is before we’ve even seen the dream, so we’re like, what is happening? But it’s all just a setup so that he’s now unemployed, and he has to go to the unemployment office because he has an aunt that wants to take custody away from him.

The aunt is played by Mary Stewart Masterson, who I… Love. I absolutely love her. She’s brilliant. She was, uh, edgy and fried Green tomatoes and a John Hughes movie that I can’t think of right now, but she’s fantastic and I love her. And she’s off, not in terms of her performance, but her character is just awful in this movie.

She just plays this hard, she’s 

Todd: cold bitch. She’s almost. Cartoonish in this movie really and she is cartoonish. That was one of my criticisms is I wasn’t sure what they were going for Tonally here because she’s cartoonish. She’s got this cartoonish lawyer with her who walks around goes with in a day 

Craig: That was weird Like he was always like in a trance like she was constantly having like snap him out of a trance 

Todd: And I guess, were we supposed to think it was funny?

I don’t know, it was just, that was weird. And then, this guy, who attacked and brutally, brutally attacked this guy in the shopping mall, for what turns out to be no reason. Right. Where are the consequences? I, I guess, I know he got fired, but like, I was expecting 

Craig: to see him like, in jail for a little while or something.

Something, like, having to deal with 

Todd: this through the court system, like, one more complication to add to his life, you know? But it’s just, no, okay, now, now you’re unemployed, well shit, now I’ve gotta find a new thing. So then he goes to a career counselor. Yeah, Steve. Who apparently he’s been to before, right?

Craig: They, uh, I think so? Yes! Then, like… The guy, it’s Matthew Lillard, who I also very much enjoy, you know, uh, super famous from Scream, but he also, um, played Shaggy in all of those, I only saw one of those movies, it was cute, and I thought that he was a great cast, um, as a live action Shaggy. 

Todd: It was like his dream to play Shaggy, and he’s been playing Shaggy both in live action and voice for every single Scooby Doo thing that’s come out since.

Yeah, good for him. 

Craig: Get that check. Right. Um, but it’s fun to see him here. It’s, again, it’s so odd to see people our age. Like… 

Todd: Old? Yes! I know, right? It’s like… I almost didn’t recognize him. He 

Craig: looks great. He looks like his age. He just… Yeah. He just looks older. But he’s the career counselor. And he’s shifty, and it seems like they know each other, like, it seems like he’s like, Oh, you’re back again.

Yes! Like, he goes through his whole file, and he’s like, You’ve had, like, five jobs in the last nine months, and he’s always getting fired, um, because of his temper or something, I don’t know. But then, he’s like, Okay, thanks, Mi Like, he’s looking at the file, and he’s like, Thanks, Mike… Mitt? And there’s this weird, like, Some weird realization like he didn’t know this guy’s name even though they know each 

Todd: other.

Yeah I think I know why now. 

Craig: Yeah, now I know why but but it’s just 

Todd: No, I don’t buy it. I’m sorry. It doesn’t make 

Craig: any sense. I don’t buy this This odd coincidence. All right, anyway. Okay. So then before that, before he saw the name, he’s like, no, I don’t there’s no way you can get a job you’re terrible. And then he sees his name.

He’s like, wait a minute. I do have one job. I can just see him like twiddling his fingers in front of his mouth. Like, I do have one job available. And he’s like, the pay is crap. And the hours are terrible. But it’s the only job you can get, and Josh Hutcherson’s like, I can’t, cause I can’t work nights, cause he’s got…

This kid. And, uh, like, there are so many details that ultimately don’t matter. Like, this kid, like, has special needs. Like, she, I don’t know, she doesn’t talk very much, 

Todd: and Like a little autistic maybe? Somewhere 

Craig: on the spectrum? I, I guess, but If that’s what they were going for, oh god. 

Todd: It’s a very light, 

Craig: yeah.

Right, like, she’s mildly autistic, like, I don’t know. She just likes to draw a lot. Right, and they never say, they never say autism, they never say anything like that. They, but, she struggles in school, she struggles socially. Mary Stewart Masterson, like, confronts I don’t know, a judge or something, and it’s like, Uh, Mike is not a fit parent, and she has special needs, and I would be much better.

And she comes in like a cartoon villain, threatening to take custody away. And that ultimately really doesn’t matter, except for Mike feels like he has to get a job. 

Todd: Which he would need anyway. Right, 

Craig: exactly, which he would need anyway! I mean, they, I don’t know, I mean, both of their parents are deceased, which is also very vague.

He says something like… After mom died, dad just couldn’t take it. And that’s it. Like, it’s never explained any further than that, but… So he initially turns down the job, but then, with the threat of losing his little sister, he calls Matthew Lillard back, and he’s like, Is that job still available? And Matthew Lillard’s like, Yeah.

And then, he explains it, You have to go guard this place, which is Chuck E. Cheese, but it’s called something else. What is it called? Freddy 

Todd: Fazbear’s. 

Craig: Pizza. God, there was, um… What’s the one I just said? Chuck E. Cheese. There was another one, too. Showbiz. Showbiz. Did you go to those places 

Todd: when you were a kid?

Oh, dude. Dude, do not get me started. I Ugh, if we start talking about this, this could be like an hour and a half episode. I have so many great fond memories of going to those places. I I was in love. With Chuck E. Cheese, and Showbiz, and the idea of those places. I loved the robots. You know, other people, like, they wanted to play the video games, and they wanted to ride the rides and play in the ball pit.

All of which I enjoyed doing too. Sure. But I would jump up as soon as a show was going on to run in there and watch those robots do their thing. Yeah. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. And I, I think it was Chuck E. Cheese, maybe it was Showbiz, also had seats, like stools, by the stage. Oh.

They would go up and down. Oh, I vaguely remember that on the wall they had like, uh, you know, like mounted trophies, like an elephant’s head and a elephant’s hands and things like that that would like move and clap at the end. I mean, it just felt to me like the room would come alive and I just thought the robots were as cool as hell and even when the robots were not on, they were still moving.

Like, they purposely had the robots just randomly, like, jitter a little bit, or like, blink their eyes, or like, shift every now and then. Oh, yeah, 

Craig: that’s funny, because I was th You’re right, they did. They would still, like, blink. They would move just a little bit. Mm hmm. They would be mostly stationary between shows.

Like, I feel like they would do, like, a five minute show every… 20 minutes or yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was totally into the show. I’m looking right now at images Oh, I was thinking in my head. I think I remember liking showbiz more. 

Todd: Well showbiz had the cooler robots They had the 

Craig: cooler robots and look I’m looking at them now.

They’re creepy as heck now It’s 

Todd: like everything, like you know, like these things get warped over time. When we were kids, we didn’t think they were, I didn’t think they were creepy. No, I thought they were awesome! When I was a kid, I didn’t think clowns were creepy, you know? But now it’s kind of part of the zeitgeist, like clowns are just inherently creepy, these things are inherently creepy.

Chuck E. Cheese, they had the sort of half creepy. It was like waist up, and they were way up in the air. And then below them, kind of in the wall underneath the robots, they had a cheese maze that you could crawl through that was also really awesome. Oh, I don’t remember that. The showbiz was like a full on stage where the robots were full size.

And, fun fact, I don’t know if you know this, but Chuck E. Cheese was started by Steve Wozniak, who co founded Apple. No, I didn’t know that. As soon as Apple took off and, and, and he kind of took a backseat, he really wasn’t comfortable like actually participating in the company, but he was just getting the checks.

His next venture was to create Chuck E. Cheese, and then one of the guys who helped design the robots split off and, um. Created showbiz pizza. There was some kind of split there. And so that’s why the robots are kind of similar because they were more or less designed by the same guy I think This guy kind of ended up providing robots to most of these people and at one time This was a full time massive production gig for him He had giant warehouses where he was churning these animatronics out left and right for these places Including some stuff for disney and some other places.

It doesn’t surprise me Really interesting, actually. Man, years ago, I really got down a rabbit hole learning about this guy and that whole operation, because I was fascinated with it. I loved that place so much. I still wish they were around. I know they’re still around, but they are a shell of what they used to be.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, 100%. I haven’t been to one in forever, but there was one in a nearby town. Um, I think I took, well, my sister and I took my niece and nephew, and it just… Yeah, it was not the same, but those places like, yeah, for me coming from a small town where we didn’t have one in my town, that would be like a destination type thing.

Like when we would go on vacation or we would visit other cities, we would go to Chuck E. Cheese or Showbiz and not all the time, but you know, it was like a fun treat and I absolutely loved it too. And that’s what this is. So he gets this job as the night security guard at. A deserted Chuck E. Cheese, whatever it’s called, Freddy’s Fazburger, or whatever it’s called.

A Furburger! Fazbear! Freddy Fazbear! I don’t know. Okay, and, like, even the premise doesn’t make any sense. Like, this place? Has been deserted for 40 years, but they, they hire somebody to guard it every night. Just so nobody comes in, that doesn’t make any sense. What he 

Todd: says is something like, well, the owner just can’t let it go or something like that.

And it is so transparent to the point where I figured, well, it’s probably supposed to be transparent, right? That. This guy is the owner. Like, that’s the only thing that makes sense. The way he kind of cackles, you know, when he sends him on the gig. Some of the little things he says to him as he’s sending him off.

And then he goes, uh, I’ll catch you on the flip side. Hopefully. 

Craig: Yeah. Well, I was 

Todd: just like, all right, well, this guy’s shady as hell. And so of course, like he’s the guy, right? We didn’t, I mean, 

Craig: we didn’t talk about the cold open, you know, there, there is a cold open where the security guard at that place gets chased around by an unseen thing and presumably killed.

Todd: And strapped to some like saw type table. I didn’t get that at all. I don’t either. He gets chased around by these animatronics. He gets hit on the head or something, he wakes up, and then suddenly he’s in this table or something? It’s a 

Craig: it’s a chair, but it’s got like, iron 

Todd: manacles. Which just close automatically over him and his wrists, and then an animatronic face.

Whereas the inside is like, all spinning blades and shit. Yeah. I don’t, it doesn’t make any sense. Being lowered onto his face, uh, I don’t, I still don’t understand that. These 

Craig: costumes don’t make any sense. The animatronic costumes are literally saw death 

Todd: drafts. Yes. Well, this is the funny thing. The animatronics are one thing, right?

In these places, there are animatronics. They’re full on robots, but then they would have like a Chuck E. Cheese character, you know, just a suit that a guy would walk around in and interact with kids. It’s just a suit. It was not a half animatronic suit. No, no, no, no. And I don’t even understand how this would work.

But apparently in this, in this instance, there are also… Suits that people would wear to interact with kids that have animatronic insides? 

Craig: I don’t know, but we can’t let it get away from us. We need to talk about the animatronics because they were made by Jim Henson’s Creature Shop. It’s not CGI. Most of it is animatronics.

There are some times when the the animatronics rarely walk. Yeah, they’re usually stationary. But you do see them walk every once in a while. One of them, Foxy, they all have names that correlate to what they are. Foxy is a fox and he is kind of like a Terminator with a little bit of Foxy. 

Todd: The most where 

Craig: he’s got that spooky, like decaying 

Todd: animatronic look that works so well for Terminator.

Yeah. It’s, it’s pretty, but the rest of them are, they look like, you know, they were almost like, like they were made yesterday. They, maybe they’re a little dusty. That’s about it. And 

Craig: they’re cool. They have the, I mean. If you’re unfamiliar with the design concept, just Google Five Nights at Freddy’s and they’re very faithful to the look of the games.

I thought they were awesome. I loved them. I thought they were great and I thought that, uh, it was a good job because there are sometimes when they move and those were people in suits, but they were believable. But the whole concept of it doesn’t even make sense because the first night that he’s there, there’s.

A training video with his name on it, and he watches it, and the woman explaining it from the 80s is like, they’re animatronic, but we also had to kind of make them sentient so they could walk around on their own. What? It didn’t, it doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. But, his first night there goes fine. Yeah.

Like, no problem. It’s fine, no problem. And he comes home and he relieves his babysitter, who we’ve seen a couple times, seems like a nice girl. She seems like she’s just helping out. Mm hmm. And at this point he’s like, uh, I promise I’ll pay you someday. And she’s like, don’t worry about it, it’s fine. She seems super nice.