2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

Though some may not classify it as much of a “horror” story as our typical fare, Scrooged is in fact based on Charles Dickens’ classic Christmas ghost story, “A Christmas Carol”. So we feel fully justified in pulling out one of our favorite movies ever and reliving it with you this holiday season.

Happy Holidays, loyal listeners!

Scrooged (1988)

Episode 240, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Merry Christmas, Craig.

Craig: Merry Christmas to you.

Todd: What a pleasant Christmas it’s been. Right.

Craig: You know, with all the craziness that’s going on in the world. It’s nice to have some things that, uh, Feel at least a little bit normal, you know, putting up the Christmas tree, ordering all of your Christmas presents from Amazon.

Okay. Watching these Christmas movies that pop up every year on cable. And it honestly, I just, but, uh, it really is nice to have a little bit of normalcy and, um, The the Christmas season has lifted my spirits this year.

Todd: Well, you know, Christmas is the time of year, even though maybe we get together with a few more family members than we will be this year, we do spend it indoors, right.

We sit inside or our living rooms, hopefully around a fire or a video of a fire crackling on the screen, lounging around in our pajamas, watching holiday films or in our case. Holiday horror films. And I can’t think that it’s, you know, we didn’t go out to do this on purpose, but I can’t help. But think that there’s something subconscious about what we did this year, where we ended up choosing horror comedies for Christmas.

I mean, we did Santa’s sleigh. We did Anna and the apocalypse. And this week we went very light on the horror actually to something that we. I think we can justify as a horror movie, but gosh, darn it. It’s just one of the, two of our most favorite Christmas movies of all time. And it’s called Scrooged, starring bill Murray from 1988.

And I mean, it’s based on the original, uh, Christmas ghost story.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Right. So, I mean, we certainly certainly are justified in doing any version of a Christmas Carol that’s out there. Right. They’re all go stories.

Craig: I think. So I tried to talk you into doing this last year and you’re like, I don’t know, dude, I don’t know if this is really a horror movie and I, you know, relented and said, all right, you’re probably right.

But. This year when we were looking around at things to do, I actually saw this movie pop up on several horror movie lists. And the more I thought about it, the movie is not scary. It is not a scary movie. Children could watch this movie, but it definitely has horror elements and the source material, like you said, Charles Dickens, a Christmas Carol is, you know, that scary ghost story that they.

Talk about in the Christmas carols, there’ll be scary. Ghost stories and tales of the glory. You know, like this is it. This is the, this is, he goes story of Christmas and I love the source material and, you know, I’ve read the novella. It’s great. I’ve seen a lot of, uh, different adaptations of it and I’ve liked, I think all of them, uh, Muppet’s Christmas.

Carol is lovely.

Todd: Oh, don’t get me started

Craig: even, I’m not a huge Jim Carrey fan, but I thought the Jim Carey, a animated adaptation was actually really good.

Todd: You know what? We love that one, the one that’s a little creepy that’s animated using the image movers or whatever that Robertson meccas was doing there for a little while.

We actually really liked that one in our house and we do watch that a lot. And that one has some pretty scary elements too, because it also follows. Closer to the source material, which is a little scarier at moments, you know, the death character. There’s a little bit more there. It gets a little more philosophical and he has a couple of characters under his cloak, right?

What are they sorrow and pity, or I can’t remember what they are. Anyway. Yeah. And that, and that’s follows even closer to the source of material. And I think ends up a little scarier as a result. This movie is lighter. And like I said, I think this year we were, we seem to be in the mood for lighter horror movies for Christmas time.

And so it’s really appropriate to do. And bill Murray, Oh God, bill Murray is just one of my. All-time favorite actors just because he makes everything he’s in feels so effortless. Like he’s an improviser by trade and everyone who’s ever worked with him says that including Richard Donner, who directed this movie said that, uh, the hardest thing about directing bill, bill Murray is you don’t direct him.

You, you basically, you hold him back. You tell him to pull back because. He will improvise everything. He’ll just go off. And a lot of this movie apparently was improvised and there was a bit of tension between Richard Donner and bill Murray on this bill Murray doesn’t actually have fond memories of working on this film.

He thought it was a bit of a slog

Craig: came off. Yeah, weird, right. It, well, it’s weird and unfortunate because I guess when the movie was made, bill Murray had kind of pulled back a little bit. He wasn’t working as much, you know, he just wasn’t feeling that into it. In fact, I think he had moved out of the country and he was just the, he, he wasn’t feeling it.

Todd: He was from psyched out by his Ghostbuster success just a few years before this. Um, and kind of felt like that was so big and so successful that. It could very well be the most successful thing he’s ever done in his career, which was kind of a depressing thought. And so he thought about just giving up, acting entirely at that.

Right,

Craig: right. And he said, you know, there would be times when he would maybe want to work, but the scripts that he was getting just weren’t appealing. He had been offered this script at least a year or two before. They actually made it and he had turned it down even though he was interested. And so when it came back around again, we decided to do it, but he personally, Marie wasn’t satisfied with the script.

So they did a lot of reworking of the script. What Marie says basically is they just ripped it to shreds and started putting pieces back to back together. Uh, he said that they, uh, amped up the, uh, romantic. Plot, they fidgeted with some stuff with, uh, the family. And when I, when I, when he says the family, I assume they mean his secretary Grace’s family, which is an excellent part of this movie.

That’s why, like, I have been nervous since we decided to do this about talking about it because I love. Everything about it, no matter what, what we ended up talking about over the next 50 minutes or whatever, I’m going to think back and say, Oh my God, I can’t believe we didn’t talk about that because, Oh, I just love everything about it.

But anyway, Marie says that the final product is very different. Then the original script. And he said that they shot a lot and really fast. They shot it really fast and they shot a lot of material. And he said, tons of it ended up on the cutting room floor. And what we get is kind of a hodgepodge of little bits and pieces of what they were going for.

And I think that ultimately, Marie wasn’t fully satisfied with the final product. But I’m going to disagree with him. I think that this movie is fantastic. It’s, it’s one of my favorite Christmas movies. It’s one of my favorite movies. End stop. It’s hilarious. Uh, there are amazing people in it and it’s a sweet redemption story and more so than in any other movie.

I find bill Murray, so captivating and charming in this movie, he has so many levels. He plays the hard-ass businessman who seemingly doesn’t care about anybody. He plays that so naturally, and it’s so easy to believe, but then there are other moments when you see his vulnerability and his soft side and his.

Chemistry with Karen Allen, who is his love interest is so sweet and natural. Like, uh, he just blows me away in this movie. It’s my favorite bill Murray movie by far.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, and he has to care. He is the movie. I mean the movie centers around him. If, if. And I think Eddie Murphy had been considered or offered a position, um, uh, in this role, uh, there was one other actor I believe was seriously considered for this ended up going to Murray.

And again, after all the reworking, he agreed to do it, but this was really his first time ever having to carry a film. He was always an ensemble player before this. And so I think that probably made him a bit nervous as well. And they said he has a very work of enlight. Mentality on the set, even though, you know, he’s so beloved now, like people laugh about bill Murray and they joke about him and he’s got goofy stuff he’s done and random things that he does in real life.

Right. And I hear he’s a new Yorker through and through. He still lives there and he’ll just go down the street with ’em whenever he’s walking out, outside, you know, not no entourage, no nothing, but he’ll have a fist full of dollar bills in his hand. And we’ll put one in the cup of every panhandler that he comes across.

You know, that’s funny

Craig: yet. I’ve. Oh, yeah, go ahead. I was thinking, I think I was going to say the same thing. You’re getting ready to stay, right,

Todd: right. Yeah. Yet I’ve also heard he is kind of a Dick to work with at times. And the way he conducts his business is kind of dickish too. I mean, he doesn’t have an agent.

He has a phone number and it’s attached to like an answering machine and you can call it. You can be anybody. You can be the, the biggest producer in the world. And in order to get ahold of him, you got to leave the stupid message on this answering machine. And wonder if he’s ever going to get back to you.

And, uh, there are roles. I think it might’ve been Charlie’s angel that he kind of basically took last minute and just kind of called and said, yeah, I’m going to accept it. You know, when are you going to start shooting and then just sort of showed up. Did his thing and then left and didn’t always leave a very good impression on the cast, the crew that was working

Craig: with him.

Yeah. I have heard that. Personally, he’s kind of an asshole. And, um, I actually knew somebody in college who was related to him by marriage and, uh, had, had met him at a family reunion or something. And they said he was really kind of a Dick. He was really aloof, but whatever

Todd: much, like many of the characters he plays, I guess, huh?

Maybe that’s why it works so well.

Craig: If you look kinda the history of SNL, like he was a big Dick to Gilda Radner, which is kind of an unknown. Forgivable sin to me, like she was desperately in love with him and he kind of dicked her around, but whatever, you know, we all have our moments regardless. Um, he’s very, very talented and his talent is on full display in this movie.

Todd: Absolutely. And, and much like, you know, the two of us, this movie is beloved now by lots of people. It’s very much on television. Uh, this time of year, it’s a, one of those regular, this is the movie we’ve got to kind of watch around the season. It’s become that in the wake of its release, it’s released it didn’t do too bad.

I think it made over a hundred million on a 32 million budget. I think it was a little disappointing. In terms of the reception that it got from critics, the audience seemed to kind of find it. Okay. But I was shocked, you know, I’ve said on this, on the show before that Roger Ebert is kind of one of my, one of my, one of my role models.

And I tend to agree with almost everything he says about films, but he gave this movie a one-star review when it came out.

Craig: Yup. He said it was the worst adaptation of a Christmas Carol that he’d ever seen. Yeah.

Todd: Crazy. And he just felt like it was just negative. He said there was like no joy in it. This is cynical guy.

Who’s just bomb. Humbugging his way through it. How are we supposed to relate to this guy? How are we supposed to find any joy in this movie? I totally disagree actually completely disagree with him. I don’t know if he ever later revised his opinion of this movie as he often did. I couldn’t find any evidence of that.

It doesn’t really matter. Right. What matters is what we have to say about here now to them.

Oh, so w I mean, where to

Craig: begin, I mean, let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s start at the very beginning. It’s a very good place to start it. It opens up, you know, with this, you know, classic kind of. Aerial shot shooting through the clouds. And I have to mention right off the bat. So I don’t forget to mention Danny Elfman score in this movie is amazing.

I love it. Like from the very beginning, it’s very Christmasy, but dark Christmas, it’s almost kind of a children’s book. Wire sound in the background, but it just, it sets the tone. So well

and the first thing we see, if you hadn’t seen the movie before, you would think, what the heck am I getting into? Because you don’t realize that what it really is a trailer for a movie that this, uh, network that Frank Cross bill Murray’s character. Uh, is the president or lead programming guy? I don’t know.

He’s he’s executive at this place. We see a trailer for the night. The reindeer died,

Todd: starring Lee majors, million dollar man.

Craig: And it’s so funny, like Sansa’s workshop is getting attacked by like, Terrorists with machine guns and elves and Santa and Santo’s wives like go to their arsenal of machine guns. There are defending the workshop and then Lee majors, the $6 million man shows up and, uh, it’s just classic.

And there are so many. Cameos in this movie, like, Oh my God, I can’t think of a movie where there are more cameos of famous people. Uh, right after the night, the rain deer died. We have Bob glaze, old fashioned, Cajun Christmas with Robert Goulay on like a raft and like alligators are chasing him while he’s singing silver bells.

And it’s so funny. And the catchphrase for the. Seasonal movies on this network, IBC or something, whatever it is is you’ll love it. Y you Ellie, very

Todd: cute.

Craig: And then we’re introduced to Frank Cross, uh, bill Murray. Who is very disappoint. Oh, we also see their promo for their big event, which is a live production of what they’re calling Scrooge, but it’s Charles Dickens, a Christmas Carol, and it’s very classic and very traditional buddy.

Hackett is that what his name

Todd: is? Buddy Hackett. His group

Craig: is playing Scrooge and it’s got Mary Lou Retton is tiny tip people, solid gold dancers, this solid gold dancers. If, if. If you were to show this to your son in 10 years, he would have no idea who these people were, but these names were so ingrained in our consciousness.

In the 1980s, Mary Lou Retton was America’s sweet heart. She was this cute sweet little gymnast. Um, the solid gold dancers. My God, I remember watching solid gold. I don’t even remember what it was on. Was it on, on Saturday mornings or on Friday nights or something, but it was just, it was show girls on network television.

It was great. They’re in it, but they show the PR the promo and it’s a very traditional, and he’s disappointed in it. We have spent $40 million on a lie TV show. You guys have got an ad with America’s favorite old farm. Reading a book in front of a fireplace. Now I have to kill

Todd: all of you. That’s not

Craig: good TV.

And then he shows his

drug addiction. International terrorism. Chiller

is important to remember the true me. Oh Christmas, don’t miss the Charles Dickens immortal

Todd: and Bobcat Goldthwait is one of the young, I guess, decision-makers at this table or whatever, and is absolutely appalled by this. And I also, I love Bobcat Goldthwait he, you know, He annoyed the hell out of me when I was a kid and as an adult, I have since really copped to his humor style. And I think he’s one of the most brilliant comedians ever.

Honestly, he was so funny and he’s great in this as well. This nice kind of happy-go-lucky

Craig: guy,

Todd: who’s just, you know, he’s just kind of trying to make his Mark and. He goes up to bill Murray and tells him, Oh,

Craig: don’t you think we’re

Todd: going to scare people. And, and he gets dismissed. And, and this is the beginning of, you know, well, we see his true colors, obviously.

Uh, as he’s walking out Bobcat Goldthwait has this little interaction with him and Frank Cross just kind of says to him, Oh, you know what? I’ll take that under advisement. Thank you very much. And as he walks by, he goes to his secretary and he looks over at her and his secretary. His name is, um,

Craig: grace played by the incomparable, Alfre, Woodard,

Todd: uh,

Craig: so many good people in this movie, Alfre, Woodard.

I just freaking love her. Anyway. What

Todd: else do you remember her from?

Craig: Oh my God. She’s been in a bazillion things. The thing that I liked her most in. Did you ever see that movie? Um, With a iron man. What’s his name?

Todd: Robert Downey Jr.

Craig: Robert Downey, Jr. Heart and souls. Did you ever

Todd: see that? Oh yeah, he’s a

Craig: guy.

And like, she was one of these like five ghosts that he had to help or whatever. Sweet, wonderful movie. But she’s been in a bazillion thing. She’s she’s a genius. And gorgeous and young in this movie. And so sweet. And this is a part like, that’s the thing that I like about this movie, her part, I mean, she’s the, um, Oh gosh, and a Christmas

Todd: Bob Cratchit.

Craig: She’s the Bob Cratchit in this movie and she’s perfect. She, you know, she’s poor. This all takes place in Chicago and, and sh I think she lives in one of them. You know, poorer areas of Chicago, of which there are many, but she has this big family and they are barely getting by. They’re living in this small apartment.

This, you know, she’s got a bunch of kids. Her husband has passed away. Her mother lives with her and her youngest son. Calvin is the tiny Tim character in, in this movie instead of being physically handicapped, he’s emotionally damaged because he witnessed his father’s murder. And so he’s muted. He hasn’t spoken since that time.

And I didn’t write down the actor’s name, who plays Calvin because he was a little tiny kid. I have no idea if he’s done anything else, but so I’ll clean up my language. So fricking cute.

Todd: You

Craig: can’t stand it. He’s the perfect tiny Tim and grace is the perfect Bob Cratchit. She’s so easy to love. And, uh, anyway,

Todd: This is how this whole show is going to go for us today. I think

Craig: I’m just going to gush over the whole thing. Bobcat Goldthwait like you said, I found him funny, you know, when I was a kid, but yeah, he was a little bit of noxious. He plays against type in this movie usually. Yeah. He’s very loud and aggressive.

And in this movie, he’s very meek and mild and, um, sweet. He doesn’t approach Frank aggressively. He’s just like, you’ve been framed. People think I’m way off base here. Yes. You won’t hear a Ted off base, sir. Um, the thing looked like the Manson family Christmas special. Well, it’s a little late to get this kind of feedback that’s because, um, first time I’ve ever seen it, so.

Todd: You’re right. I

Craig: sprung it on you. It’s not that bad. It’s just lose like, um, you know, probably with the gun in the blood and the guy shooting up. If I can change it, I’ll let you know in five minutes. Thank you, sir. Thank you. And then Frank. Tells grace to call security and have him thrown out and fired. And you see him sitting on the curb, outside the building, trying to figure out what he’s going to say to his fiance.

Like, Oh yeah, we’ll have to move into a studio apartment, but maybe it’ll be nice and taking a bus, taking the bus to work isn’t so bad. And then you don’t really see him again much until the end of the movie. In fact, I was, I started watching this. We decided to do it late. And as we do every year, as soon as we saw that it was going to be on cable, we DVR it.

So I had it ready to go, but we started watching it. And we got about 10 minutes in and I’m like, Oh Alan, they’re cutting out so much. And so I switched over to Amazon and paid four bucks to rent it. And the stuff that they cut out was fairly inconsequential, but necessary for the full experience of the movie and some of the stuff that they cut out.

What were the little tiny scenes we see of Bobcat? Goldthwait. Continuing to struggle and be put upon throughout. And that’s important.

Todd: Yeah. Important. But he does, he does become kind of a running gag. Right? It’s like, he’s just basically for the rest of the movie until the climax at the end, he’s stumbling around in the streets with a bottle of alcohol, but either.

In one scene falls out of his bag and breaks as he gets splashed with water or in another scene gets taken out of his hand as a car drives by. He can’t even get his last fix and just gets more and more on hinge presumably as it goes through. So yeah, we keep popping back to him every now and then, but it’s not like he’s a part of the main story until it kind of wraps back around, uh, at the very, very end.

Craig: Right. Another person who I just want to mention is Mary Ellen trainer is in this movie. She plays somebody who works with Frank and her role is really insignificant, but she’s so recognizable. I mean, she did tons of Donner’s movies.

Todd: Mom and Goonies.

Craig: Yep. And she was in all the lethal weapon movies. Um, and so just even just her presence elevates this movie for me.

But then, uh, Frank starts giving his, dictating his Christmas list to grace and he’s either giving out towels or VCRs. And he’s only giving out VCRs to the important people. Everybody else gets towels and gray says your brother, and he says towel. And she says, your only brother, like, I just, I also love this relationship between Scrooge Frank and grace.

Like, she’s not so put upon that she can’t kind of speak her mind. I mean, he always wins. Like at one point, he comes into her part of the office and she’s got a drawing that was made by one of her kids. And it looks like a kid’s drying and he pulls it off the wall and says, how many fingers does Mrs.

Claus have? And she says 11 and he crumples it up and says, right. It’s crap. Get it out of here. I don’t want it on the wall. Like, he’s such a jerk, but it’s like, they’ve worked together for so long. That she knows how to deal with him. And, yeah, that’s cool too. His boss, whose name? I don’t know if it’s his first name or last name.

He calls him Preston, Robert Mitchum, another huge star who they didn’t think that they were going to be able to get to do this movie because it was such a small role, but he agreed to do it. And they were all just completely enamored by him. Which shows us that cats and dogs are beginning to watch television.

These scientists, the rights we should start programming right now within 20 years, they could become steady viewers. I’m going through my notes. What I told my partner last night was what the reason I’m worried about doing this movie is because I feel like every single part I love. And so I’m going to feel like I want to talk about every single part and we can’t.

Um, so I’m trying to focus on the important stuff. Frank’s baby brother James comes to visit him in his office, and I assume that this is supposed to be the nephew role from the original. Source material. His little brother is played by bill Murray’s little brother. And in fact, uh, three, I have no idea how many siblings bill Murray has in total, but three of his brothers are established working actors and all three of them appear in this movie.

Um, one plays his little brother, one place, his dad and a flashback and another. Is a guest at a Christmas party later in the movie,

Todd: which is cool. And his dad, ed was also the mayor. Well, his dad and the flashback, one of his brothers was also the mayor in Groundhog’s day.

Craig: And yes. And the boss in a Christmas vacation, the whole Chevy chase, his boss, and they have a talk.

And, you know, I don’t remember exactly what they say, but it’s just obvious that the little brother wants to have a relationship with this big brother. And he invites him to Christmas and says, what are the chances of you actually coming to Christmas dinner this year? And bill Murray is like, uh, zero. Um, but bill Murray does say, look.

I like you and I like spending time with you. I hope you have a good new year, any disappears and goes away to accept a humanitarian of the year award.

Todd: This is hilarious.

Craig: Even these little things. I may be reading too much into it, but I really don’t think so. The relationship with, with Murray and his little brother, you can tell that there’s genuine feeling and warmth there. They’re just such different people that they don’t mesh. And Frank is kind of messed up and eventually we see in the flashbacks.

Why that is, but that doesn’t come until later first, the Jacob Marley character in the form of, uh, Frank’s former deceased boss, Lou Hayward played by John, another huge guy, Charlie from Charlie’s angels visits him. Uh, and it’s great. Like. It’s all very supernatural. Like he explodes into the room and he’s all corpse like and gross.

And. Bill Murray is reacting to him. He shoots him a bunch of times with a gun. And the ghost is like, I don’t mind you hitting me Frank, but try to lay off the booze or because he accidentally shoots the booze bottle or something.

Todd: This might be the most horror of the whole movie. Really. It’s pretty gross.

He’s kind of basically a dead zombie dude. They didn’t go the ghost route, which you get with some of these Christmas carols where, you know, he comes in as a spirit, but he’s there almost like a zombie. And there’s a gag where, you know, he’s drinking, uh, bill Murray shoots him several times and you know, a mouse crawls out of his skull golf ball rolls a lot of his skull.

And, and, and after he shot him a few times, he’s presumably got holes in them when he drinks. Uh, the, like all the water leaks out like a cartoon, but then, you know, he grabs him and he holds him, pushes him magically through the window and of the skyscraper that they’re in and holds him out over the street below the ghost is just laughing at him.

And, uh, as he’s holding him out there, his arm starts to fall off and, and bill Murray is grabbing it as armed, but he’s just tearing it apart. And it’s a little gross actually, but it’s. It’s all very dusty, you know, and, and, and corpse like, and, and eventually tears his arm off as he plummets down and then wakes up back at the studio.

And this is where everything kind of comes back to. Whereas in the Christmas, Carol, everything comes back to Scrooge’s bed in this movie, right. Everything after these little episodes comes back to this production of Scrooge in the TV studio where they’re rehearsing it for the live production. And that’s a really clever device, really kind of neat because then it allows for some really interesting, um, transitions, you know, where he’s suddenly he’s there on the set kind of in the middle of a, of a scene that was very similar to what he just left.

And I love that and yeah. And it’s cool because too, as everybody else kind of sees that he’s grounded, it’d be coming unhinged. They’re all like, Oh, you know, you need to take a break. Maybe you should go, you should go away. It gets them a lot of goofy things to do. And then there’s another guy too who gets introduced what the ghost tells him is that at 12 o’clock or seven o’clock or something tomorrow, you’re going to be visited by your first spirit.

And he’s having lunch with. His boss and his boss is giving him the news is about to give him the news that he’s hired somebody else to kind of take over for him for a little while to help him out at more or less as an assistant. But it’s clear that this guy’s gunning for the job and this guy’s name is Bryce Cummings.

It’s the douchey his name you could imagine. And he comes in, you know, super douchey as well.

Craig: Well, we meet again. Hi, how are you?

Todd: Oh, look at this.

Craig: Blue is bad color for New York. Frank, I realized this is coming at you pretty damn fast, but I want you to understand that my only function here is to take some of the

Todd: burden off your shoulders.

Craig: A lot of men in your position would see me as a threat. It’s only natural. That’s me.

Todd: And then this sets up this scene where he’s like, Oh, Oh, I see you. Like in his head, he thinks this guy’s the ghost.

Craig: Yeah. And Murray’s acting here is hilarious. Like he’s, he’s like trying to subtly like, say to the ghosts, like I know it’s you, but he’s not really saying anything. It’s all through looks and like just little lip movements, but he’s clearly uncomfortable, which makes the other.

Guys Bryce and his boss at the table think that he’s unhinged. And you would, I mean, that’s what it looks like. He looks like he’s losing it. His boss even says something like don’t fall apart on me, Frank. Yeah, he does. Cause he, cause he thinks that guy is the ghost, but he’s also having hallucinations.

Like he orders a high ball to drink and when the waiter puts it down, he looks down and he sees him. Eyeball in it and freaks out. Of course, nobody else sees it. And then he looks over and a waiter is serving a, um,

Todd: Baked Alaska.

Craig: Yeah. Baked like on Flom Bay or whatever. He sees the waiters uniform catch fire.

It’s not really happening, but we see that he’s seeing it and he’s freaking out. And eventually he excuses himself. And gets up and runs over and throws an ice bucket on this waiter who is not on fire. He says, I am sorry for a minute. I thought you were Richard Pryor,

which nobody yet younger than us we’ll get. Uh, but Richard Pryor was a very, very. Hugely famous black comedian, but notoriously at one point, I think in the process of using drugs, caught himself on fire. Yeah. So it’s a little, uh, in joke there. And then he walks out and there’s physical comedy where he slips and falls and jumps back up.

And I read that that was. An accident. Like he really did fall, which again, just to me, speaks to bill Murray’s talent, that something like that an accident can happen and you can make it work. It looks fantastic. And it looks so good. It looks like intentional physical comedy done really well, but really it was just an accident that he played with.

Uh,

Todd: it’s hilarious.

Craig: So good. When the boss or the, the dead boss. After he left, when Frank wakes back up in his office, the phone dials itself, and it dials a woman. Named Claire, her answering machine picks up. Marie leaves a message saying, I know it’s been a long time since we talked, but I need to talk to you.

Like it’s, it’s very frantic. And it turns out that this is a woman that he had been in a relationship with like 15 years ago. She ends up showing up the next day on set. After Frank has dealt with the sensor’s complaints about. Being able to see solid gold dancers,

this costume on the air. Why not? Well specifically you can see her nipples. I want to see her nipples, but this is a Christmas. Oh, well, Charles Dickens would have wanted to see her nipples then. You can probably see them say, these guys are really looking.

She shows up and she calls him lumpy for reasons we’ll find out later, but she is just so. From the second you see her, I mean, even the score does kind of this angelic thing

Todd: when it shows her

Craig: for the first time she’s played by Karen Allen, most people would probably know Karen Allen from the Indiana Jones movies, Raiders of the lost Ark and kingdom of the crystal skull.

She was in these love interest in those movies. She was also in star, man. I remember her from, um, the film adaptation of the glass menagerie. She played the Maura in the glass menagerie and Oh my God. Devastating performance in that movie, but she’s so I told Alan as we were watching this together last night, cause he likes this movie too.

I say Karen Allen is just the Hitomi of the girl next door. She is just. Gorgeous in the sweetest, most innocent, beautiful way. I just love her. And she’s great in this movie. And her role in this movie is basically to be, you know,

Todd: she’s,

Craig: she’s the girl that could. Have changed his life. She’s the girl that could have fixed his cynicism and his negativity, but it just didn’t work out.

And we see that, but just, and the other thing that I love is that any time that he’s with her, his. Whole demeanor changes when he’s focused on her. Now, when he’s distracted by his life, like when a crew person comes and says, Oh, we’ve got these door mice and they’re supposed to have antlers, but we can’t get them to stay on with the glue.

And he’s like, well, did you try staples? And Claire’s like, don’t, you dare, I’ll call the ASP, whatever. So, so he’s easily distracted and easily shifts back into his other. Personality, but when it’s just the two of them, he’s a totally different person, but it’s, it’s believable. Like she makes him a better person.

And that I feel like is kind of the trajectory of the movie that he has to learn to embrace that. But it’s not easy.

Todd: It’s so interesting too. How she just kind of. Deals with him. You can tell they have a history and she’s just so positive. It’s like she looks past most of his assholeishness really, and is willing to just.

Kind of forget that because she’s seen him before he was that Dick, she knew him when he was struggling and working his way up through the studio, which is what his, the majority of his ghost of Christmas, past experiences, like after he leaves that restaurant, he gets calls a cab and a crazy old taxi jumps up and he gets into it.

This cab driver is hilarious and he’s the kind of guy thought that he had been in. Films, but actually it’s more of a musician. His name is David Johansen and he was a good friend of Marie’s. And I guess, um, Sam Kinison was originally considered for this role, but this guy, cause he was a friend of morays one out and he’s Graham.

Great.

Craig: He is great. Sam Kinison would have been good.

Todd: Yeah, he would have also been good. Yeah.

Craig: This guy, David Johansen, uh, is, is really good in the role. And you’re right. Like I know he has been in other things. I’ve seen him in other things, but I remember him as a musician, he worked, uh, with a band whose name escapes me right now, but I remember him as Buster Poindexter because they on MTV.

His video for hot, hot, hot, how you feel in hot, hot, hot,

Todd: like

Craig: that got played all the time. So I remember him from that. And from this, but he’s hilarious. And in his, uh, taxi cab, much like back to the future, you know, they travel back in time and like, you see the meter for the taxi rolling back in time and they go back to the 1950s where you see Franks.

Childhood. And he’s sitting in front of a TV on Christmas and his mom’s there and pregnant with his younger brother and she’s smoking cigarettes. His dad shows up and apparently his dad’s a butcher and he gives him, he’s like, Hey, I got you a present again. This is one of Marie’s older brothers. And he throws down a package and, and cute, cute little Frank four year old, Frank opens it up and it’s.

A cut of a veal. He’s like, but daddy, I wanted to shoot you. And the dad berates him for being ungrateful. And, uh, the mom says, ah, come on. He’s only forward. And the dad this light and I love it. So all day long, I listen to people, give excuses why they can’t work. My back hurts my legs ache. I’m only.

Guys, Frank cries, much to the amusement of the ghost of Christmas past. And he says, you know, you don’t really have a childhood. The ghost says, and he’s like I do too. I’ve got all these memories, but it turns out all of his memories are. Really things that he saw on TV, which makes sense why he would have gone into television.

Cause that was his whole childhood. He had nothing else. We then jumped to an office party sometime, uh, at IBC when Frank was just, uh, an intern, everybody else is partying and having a great time. And the ghost says, yeah, they used to have these groups. Epic parties every year until you took over. Um, and everybody’s having fun and, but he leaves he’s, he’s propositioned by this hot girl.

Boukie his girlfriend from perfect strangers, but he turns her down and leaves. And that’s when he meets Claire. He’s just walking down the street and she opens a door and he walks right into it. And that’s where the nickname lumpy comes from. And they have a very cute, charming meeting where he’s flirting with her.

And in my notes, I wrote, ah, even lumpy can be charming. He is, he’s so charming in this moment, like regardless of what I’ve heard about bill Murray, if I were Claire in this moment, I would have been charged. He’s sweet. He’s goofy. Uh, it’s just so cute and it surprises me. I don’t recall ever having seen bill Murray play this part before.

It’s, it’s very, very endearing. Then we get the history of their relationship, which is sweet, but ultimately sad.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, they, they, you know, they seem to be getting along just fine. They seem to live together in an apartment. They give each other gifts for Christmas and, uh, and then, uh, he ends up playing this dog in a kid’s show.

So he’s in the big dog costume, uh, sweating his way to the top. Everything kind of comes to a head when she comes to visit him at the studio. And he’s on a quick break at this very same time. His boss invites him to go out for a dinner and he’s like, this, this could be my big break. The boss has never invited me out for dinner before.

And so you should come with me and she says, well, I can’t come with you because I’ve got this, this charity event I’ve got to, I’ve got to work. And he’s like, well,

Craig: what’s the more, no, they, they are supposed to together. They’re supposed to be having dinner with friends. She says, they’re our best friends.

And, and he says, well, we can have dinner with them anytime. And she says, anytime, it’s Christmas Eve, we’ve had this plan for months. And he says, well, you can’t expect the executive of a big network to make plans for months. Basically in this moment, he chooses work very callously for her. She’s clearly upset and he’s very callous and chooses.

A work opportunity, which ultimately for him pans out, but, and she even says, I think we should take a break and he just puts the dog head back on. It’s like, okay, well, whatever, I’ll talk to you later. And that’s kind of the end of it. And it’s so sad. You see her, you know, he’s walking back onto set and she.

Calls out to him, but he doesn’t even look back and she just says, Merry Christmas. And that’s the end. And that’s, you know, that was apparently the end of their relationship, which has led him to where he is now. And he claims that another one of my favorite lines, right after that, he pops, as you said before, back into the studio where the show is rehearsing and Claire’s character in.

The show. I think her name’s Fanny and the book is saying to Ebeneezer, I hope you’re happy with the path that you’ve chosen and billboard goes after it says, well, I am happy with the path I’ve chosen you little bitch. You be happy with the book that you would choose. Well, I am happy with the path that I’ve chosen, your little bag.

But then he’s unhinged again again, and he’s walking, trying to find where she works and she works at it’s called operation reach out. It’s like a homeless shelter there. He runs into some homeless people. All three of them famous, but I didn’t look it up at the time. And Ramsey is one of them and Ramsey also from the Goonies and

Todd: deadly friend was like

Craig: one of our very first episodes.

Todd: Yeah. That’s so memorable.

Craig: This was one of her last appearances and she’s very, very sweet in this movie. Um, and he has some back and forth with them. It’s very cute. But then he deals with Claire. And he confesses to her, like he says, I’ve been thinking a lot about the past and you know, kind of like how, if things had been different, maybe you would have done differently.

Things differently. And she’s like, are you talking about regret? And he’s like, yeah, I guess. And she says, well, the good thing about regret is it’s never too late. You can always change. And it seems very sweet. And

Todd: she’s given him this big opening right now.

Craig: Exactly. But then they’re interrupted. By an emergency at the shelter.

And again, he just switches, you know, as soon as things aren’t going right. His way, he turns very callous and he’s rude to the volunteers that she works with. And she’s so patient with him, like she’s kind of almost unbelievably patient because he’s such an asshole. He’s an asshole. He’s such an asshole,

Todd: but also it kind of hammers home.

The point that there is probably nobody else on this earth that could handle him, but her. Right. Like, like in every way, shape or form, like these two are pretty well destined to be together if he’s ever going to be with anybody. Right.

Craig: Yeah. She brings out the best in him and you know, if he could just get a grip, but he’s a total Dick and she says he invites her out.

To go do something. And she says, I will. I just, I just have to take care of this real quick. And he’s like, forget it. Nevermind. And he goes to leave and she calls out to him again, any turns around and he says, let me give you some advice, scrape them off Claire. You want to save somebody, save yourself. And he turns around and walks away.

And she says, well, that’s, that’s, that’s real nice at Christmas. And he turns around and says, Bah humbug. I mean, God, this, another thing that I love about this movie is that it’s totally modernized, but it is an excellent adaptation of the source material. Is it follows the story so closely. I mean, it just adds these modern touches

Todd: and it manages to do so in a world where everybody is familiar with this Christmas tale.

Right? So like, Somehow, even though Frank is fully aware that he’s going through this experience, it’s still fresh and new and troubles him, you know, and has its emotional impact and effect on him. So, uh, it’s, it’s really clever. I mean, it’s a very clever script, I think in that way.

Craig: All right. So all the time that we’ve been talking about this, I’ve been watching the clock as I always do.

And I really already 50 minutes in and we still got a good part of the movie to talk about. So. I’m going to go ahead and say, Merry Christmas, this is your special extended, yeah. Episode of two guys and a chainsaw,

Todd: a very special episode of two guys in a chain so

Craig: much that I want to talk about. Um, as he’s walking out, as he’s leaving Claire and walking out one of these guys who I totally recognize he’s been in a million things, right.

Maybe you should look him up real quick. I don’t know. But one, one of the three guys that he had made a connection with these homeless people, one of them asks him for $2 so that he can have some place to say and Frank brushes him off and goes away. And I bring it up because it comes up again later, but then we there’s.

Uh, a scene, uh, with Frank and Bryce, where Frank tells Bryce that, you know, he’s the one in charge and Bryce’s, uh, just a Dick throughout and is totally condescending, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But everybody leaves the set and all of the lights go out. And then the ghost of Christmas present arrived arrives.

And this scene. Is one of my, and maybe I’m hyperbolic. And maybe I say this too often, but this may be one of my favorite scenes in any movie. Ever. So

Todd: I know what you’re talking about, right? You’re talking about Carol Kane’s performance as the ghost of Christmas present, who basically is a ballbar. Oh, she comes in and she puts up a thing.

It’s called the ball breaker. Sweet. And she’s got a Tutu on and she’s running around as a ferry and cannot stop kicking bill Murray’s ass throughout this entire thing. She’s punching him in the face. Phase she’s kicking him in the balls. She’s slapping him, just pulling his lip. I guess one time she pulled his lip and he was, she actually pretty much hit him for all of these.

So they claim to the point where she was a little troubled by it and was crying on set from having to beat him up. And, uh, she busted his lip and they had to, uh, you know, he couldn’t film with him for a few days while that healed. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah, there’s, there’s a part where she grabs his lip and pulls it and that little connective tissue ripped and they had to halt production it’s so,

Todd: you know, I, I think this is funny.

I understand this is funny. This, this kind of humor does not really appeal to me. And so this is actually, this is where we’re going to diverge here. This is my least favorite part.

Craig: It’s all right. You can be wrong.

Todd: Thank you. Oh, thank you. No, I’m positive. I’m wrong. Do you know why? I know I’m wrong is because I watched this with my wife today and she would not stop laughing.

She was curled up in a ball laughing so hard through this entire bit. Like. Every little smack and slap and kick just seemed funnier and funnier to her. W w the funniest part of the whole movie for her. And, uh, I was like, okay, well, it’s just not my thing, but, uh, I, I understand you like to see women beat up on guys, I guess.

It’s great. I’m married to you.

Craig: It’s Carol Kane. And she’s just funny.

Todd: She’s always funny.

Craig: She’s always funny. She just has, I mean, even just. In real life, like she has a funny voice and I don’t know it was her laugh.

Just to get better, so much joy in beating this guy up. And she’s so funny. Oh my God. Uh, and so where did they go? Uh, I, I had to write this down because I imagine other people are like this too, but in my everyday life, I am constantly quoting. Movies and television shows. There are several from this movie, but one of them is, uh, she tells him to close his eyes.

Yeah. You closed your arms. And I say that all the time, like people would understand,

Oh my God. And so she takes him to graces. Apartment. We see their family. They’re a very, very sweet family. We see that Calvin, you know, is mute and we find out that he saw his father murdered. Um, but we also see that he’s kind of a savant. Like all these kids are trying to figure out this puzzle and they can’t, but he can, Frank talks to the ghost and says, well, you know, this can be fixed, you know?

Uh, Maybe grace is due for a race and. She grabs his ear and he’s like, ah, probably, Oh, definitely. She’s definitely new for it. Right. And then it goes to his brother’s house, um, where we meet his wife, Wendy, who I, I didn’t write her name down, but she’s very recognizable too. She was in lots of TV shows. She was in hot and Cleveland.

She was. In a show on HBO, a dirty show on HBO called dream on in the night. Um, she’s beautiful. And she’s really sweet in this movie. And we see, we watch they’re having a Christmas Eve party. And so they’re opening presents and, and the brother opens his present and he gets a VCR and he’s bragging, like showing his friends, look, my brother got me a VCR and Frank is like, That doesn’t look like a towel.

Uh that’s from my ex secretary, like he’s mad about it. And then they’re, they’re playing trivial pursuit. And the question is what was the name of the ship that took them all to Gilligan’s Island and the ghost plugs his ears. Wait while they answer and the brother gets it wrong, but Frank doesn’t hear all of this.

And when she unplugs his ears, another line that I use all the time because,

Todd: and I

Craig: do it all the time because I’m crazy.

Todd: Oh my gosh.

Craig: So he pops out of there and the ghost is gone now and he pops into. Under the street. Like, I don’t think it’s the sewer. Exactly. But it’s like a storm

Todd: storm drain. Yeah.

Craig: The guy who he denied money to the guy who asked him for $2 is down there dead.

Frozen sitting up frozen, smiling, because he had been a very, you know, gregarious, smiley kind of guy. And he’s down there frozen and smiling. And Frank has a moment where he says, Maybe I should have given you those $2. And it sounds stupid when I say it, but in the moment it’s, it’s kinda, heart-wrenching like, it’s a moment of realization for him.

Like seriously, I could have given you $2 and then you. Wouldn’t be here and it’s sad. And then he pops out of there back on set and he, you know, again, burst straight into the scene. Um, and grace and Brice usher him out and he turns to everybody, it says, all right, everybody. Good luck. I feel real weird about tonight.

Yeah. And then the show starts to air and they push them into an elevator. And the ghost of Christmas future is in there and he freaks out.

All right, John, I’ve got to pick up the fridge. I know what you came for. Come and get it. You.

Oh, it just cracked me up. It turns out that it was just the actor who’s playing the ghost of Christmas future

Todd: movie.

Craig: It’s so funny.

Todd: That’s such a great fake-out moment that it’s hilarious.

Craig: So he, but then he goes up to his office and then the real ghost arrives. And I found this part. If any part, was it all scary? I found this part a little scary. You think like when the ghost showed up, like yeah, he he’s sitting, he’s sitting in front of this.

Bank of televisions, right?

Todd: And the ghost, his face kind of appears and grows a little bigger and bigger on the TV. Then you see this hand reach out of the television. And Frank doesn’t even notice it at this point, but goes to grab him just as it’s about to grab him. Somebody pops in

Craig: pops in, but just before that, Frank opens his Christmas present from his brother and it’s a handmade through 3m.

With a picture of them when they were little kids with an inscription that says to the best brother a guy ever had,

and he cries and I almost cried just saying it.

Todd: Yep. Elliot bursts in the room. He’s gone postal basically. And he’s got a shotgun and this is the moment where he goes crazy and he’s chasing Frank through the offices and trying to shoot him and kill him. Frank is dodging and running around and yeah, it’s a, it’s a pretty tense scene.

Craig: It really was just the appearance of that last ghost.

Like the, the bank of televisions behind Frank is every individual television is showing the arrival of the ghost of Christmas future on the special. But then you see from the whole bank from the very bottom, the real ghost of Christmas future, which is more. Grotesque than television one a little more gruesome, not a lot.

I mean, it’s not super gory or anything, but not much different. It comes in from the bottom of the screen and it just kind of takes over all of the screens in what was probably a pretty easy effect, but it looks. Super natural Elliot chases, Frank around and, uh, Franken’s up in the elevator with the real ghost of Christmas, past or future.

Who he at first thinks as the actor, until the ghost opens up his robe to show what you had mentioned before in the original, um, story, the ghost of Christmas future has these children. I think in the original there’s only two, but I don’t remember gross, disgusting children underneath, and they’re like hunger and poverty or.

Something like that. I don’t remember it’s social commentary in the original, but the, the ghost opens up his robe and these yucky puppet things are like reaching out and screaming through his rib cage. Again, not scary, but still fun. Practical puppety effects. I like it. I think it’s, it looks great. Oh, it does.

And the ghost has like a television screen for a face and it’s all kind of thing. Flashing and, and he visits the future exclusively through this elevator, which I also thought was really kind of a cool device that this elevator takes them to different periods in time. And the first, uh, scene that he visits is Calvin Grace’s son.

In a padded room somewhere and grace visiting him and being told she has to leave, even though she only just got there. And she says, you know, Merry Christmas, Calvin I’ll, I’ll see ya. And she leaves him alone. And then Calvin looks up. As though he can see Frank and looks him right in the eyes. And Frank turns around and he’s like, this is just the possible future, right?

Like, I can, I can fix this. You know, I know the lead doctors at whatever hospital or whatever I can fix it. He’s still trying to talk himself out of, this is my fault. Then it cuts to a scene of Claire eating a restaurant in a fancy restaurant and she looks totally different. She’s totally. Done up in these fancy clothes and overly dramatic makeup.

And she’s sitting there with, you know, fancy ladies and there are homeless kids outside. And, um, she says something critical about them. And one of the other ladies says, Oh, come on Claire. It’s Christmas. And she says, I wasted 20 years of my life. Thetic little creatures. Like those. Finally, thank God. A friend of mine said to me, scrape them off Claire.

You want to save somebody, save yourself. And she cries as she says it. Like, again, I just love Karen Allen’s performance because she plays against the character that she had been playing. But just in that moment, you see. She knows what she’s become. It’s such a subtle moment, but it just works so well. And then just like in the original, uh, in, in the book, um, and not exactly but same scene, uh, Frank arrives at a cremation and there is a casket getting ready to be put into the fire, Wendy.

The brother’s wife, uh, is standing beside it. So he thinks that his brother is being cremated and he feels terrible. And he’s thinking about how he can change that. But then his brother joins his wife. And so Frank walks up to the coffin and, and sees that it’s him. And they start pushing the coffin into the fire.

And he. Is trying to hold it back and he’s pleading with his brother to help him. Um, and just the things that he’s saying, like, please don’t let them. Hurt me, Jimmy. Ah, he got, you can hear it in my voice. It’s killing them. Please. Don’t let them hurt me. Please.

Todd: Don’t yell. That’s kind of re regresses right back to that.

Yeah. And he ends up in the coffin and there’s flames at his feet. And then, uh, suddenly he burst back out of the elevator and he’s back in front of. Elliot, but this is that moment. This is that moment when Scrooge wakes up and he’s a completely changed, man, he starts dancing around. So he kind of grabs Elliot and

Craig: they’re there like almost literally dancing

Todd: around and, uh, it’s just completely flabbergasted by the whole thing.

And he offers him a high level executive position and all this

Craig: stuff office

Todd: he’s like, dude, you want an office up here? And he’s going to like, Oh no, actually

Craig: I don’t like your office. Kisses him on the mouth. It’s hilarious.

Todd: And then, I mean, and then the rest of it, this is, this is the screen huge thing, you know, he runs out and into the production and interrupts the production of the show, right.

At the point where. Oh buddy Hackett, as you know, Bunnings are screwed, just flipping a coin down to the boy to get him the Christmas goose or whatever, though. The end of this movie is, is another thing that gets criticized, I think a little bit, or at least was at the time, especially by Roger Ebert.

Craig: It’s kinda long is I was so surprised when, because I love it.

I love this last monologue, but I was surprised when I looked at the timestamp that there was like, 10 or more minutes left. It goes on for a while. I really like it. I mean, it’s his redemptive moment he’s changed and he talks about it and it’s Christmasy and it’s a wonderful message that I think everybody needs to hear.

Of course we’re not all scrooges, but we can all be more appreciative of. The things that we have in our life, we could all be nicer. We could all be more patient. And that’s what he talks about. Through this whole thing, bill Murray, I I’m just impressed with them. Yeah. He comes across as really genuine in this moment to the point of getting choked up and teary and I believe it.

It’s great.

Todd: Yeah. And it’s random and it kind of has a build and, and I guess. There was a whole thing written out for him that he totally ignored, uh, and just went off on his own, running around and doing random things. And then, you know, when he’s kind of done with this speech or whatever, they start seeing the song put a little love in your heart.

Everybody just chimes in and sinks. It’s a little corny. I mean, but this is, you know, it’s a Christmas movie. They tend to be corny like this.

Craig: It’s true. It is a little corny, but I don’t care. I love it. But no, I can’t. Let this go. We’re only going to ever get to talk about this movie one time. And some of the things from this monologue, he talks about, you know, a live show on Christmas Eve, what kind of asshole?

Would make people do that. And one of the crew members is like, you asshole.

Todd: Fair

Craig: enough. And then he, he shows the picture that his brother gave him. His brother and family are watching live on TV. Look, I got a great brother looking at this here. My brother, James look up cutie was back then.

look at me with the. The ears is the taxi driving down the street with the doors open and got my hair growing. Huh? Yeah, I got this for Christmas today from him. I gave him a towel.

Todd: The

Craig: VCR is from grace. James. It’s cool. Copying up to his bad ways.

Todd: He’s admitting that.

Craig: And then there’s a bunch of silly stuff.

Like, I don’t know, he takes a baby from one of the cast members and pretends to drop it. And it’s just a prop baby. And there’s a mistletoe gag with one of the. Solid gold dancers. He kisses one of the solid gold dancers. Meanwhile, Elliot’s in the control booth, like shooting it up. And, um, Richard Donner is an extra in that scene and he ends it after he kisses the solid gold dancer, he says, Oh, that was a good kiss.

It was really good, but it wasn’t. Great. There’s really only been one. Great. And he calls out to Claire and basically begs her for one last chance. And so she is watching two from her, uh, charity place. So she runs out to catch a cab and it’s. The ghost cab driver. And she says, can you get me to this building, whatever in three minutes.

And he’s like, which floor?

So then everybody in the studios that singing Christmas carols, it’s really fun and sentimental and nice. And he has this monologue. I’m not crazy. It’s Christmas Eve. It’s it’s the one night of the year when we all at the little nicer week. We, we smile a little easier. We, we, we, we share a little more for a couple of hours out of the whole year.

We are the people that we always hoped we would be. It’s a miracle. It’s really a sort of a miracle because it happens every Christmas Eve. And if you waste that miracle, you’re going to burn for it. I know what I’m talking about. At the end of his monologue, Calvin Grace’s son tugs on his coat and he picks him up and says, You know, did you have something to say little man or something like that?

And Calvin says, God bless us, everyone. And you know, the kid has been used, so it’s a big deal. And his mom Alfre, Woodard is overjoyed and comes and grabs him. And then Claire shows up and they embrace. And, uh, it’s just so sweet. And then what you said. Uh, the, the piano starts playing and Alfre, Woodard leads.

You know, everybody’s singing a little love in your heart, which is a great song anyway. And, uh, you see everybody. All over the city or nation. I don’t know, singing and coming together. Bill Murray, you know, friends over the head, topic theater odd, it’s like telling different sections to sing and calling them out.

That’s where it ends. And for a silly horror comedy, this is, uh, one of the most heartwarming. Christmas movies. I just, ah, I can’t say enough. I just love it. It’s one of my favorite movies period. The end.

Todd: Thank you for listening to another episode of two guys.

Craig: I know, I’m sorry. I couldn’t help it. I knew it. I knew that I would talk and talk and talk, uh, but I don’t regret it. I I’ve wanted to talk about the movie for a long time and we’re only going to get to do it one time. And I had to say what I wanted to say, and I got through it. Barely without crying.

Todd: Oh my gosh.

I’m so glad we finally got this out of the way.

No, you know, I love this movie too. It’s fantastic. It’s stood the test of time. I really feel like it has. And uh, and we always fire it up at least once a year. It it’s I w I can’t say anything more than what you said, Craig. Uh, I w I highly recommend if you haven’t seen this movie yet, or you haven’t seen it in a long time.

Uh, it’s just what you need right now. And Merry Christmas to everyone.

Craig: Merry Christmas.

Todd: Thank you for being listeners all through the year. We’ve got a lot more coming. No, COVID is going to keep us down. That’s right. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend and you can find us online as you well know.

And we’ll go to two guys. I read 40 net.com. Leave us a message. Good. Where YouTube channel, subscribe to us there and leave us a message there as well until next time. I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig

Todd: with two guys and a chainsaw.

Without a doubt, this is the best Christmas-zombie-horror-comedy-musical we have ever reviewed. If you’re looking for a legit, lighthearted yet heartfelt romp, filled with catchy songs and great dance numbers, check out Wicked. Or you could watch this movie too. Wicked doesn’t have nearly as many zombies.

Anna and the Apocalypse (2017)

Episode 239, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Craig: Hello and welcome to another Christmas time episode of two guys in a chainsaw. I’m Craig and I’m Todd, and we were looking at our big, huge long list of. Christmas movies, horror movies this week. And one stood out to me and I, this has been around for a few years. It came out in 2017. And I think initially I was kind of skeptical about it for reasons that I don’t remember, but I was reading about it again this year.

And it is a zombie horror comedy, Christmas musical. Yeah.

Todd: It’s got a little something for everybody

Craig: and I thought, you know what? We’ve never done a zombie horror comedy Christmas musical before. No, maybe we should give it a shot.

Todd: So after considering a theme month and then deciding we better do our first one and see how much we liked the theme.

Craig: I know we

Todd: just decided to go with this one, right?

I have

Craig: to say that 2017’s, Anna and the Apocalypse is probably the best zombie horror comedy, Christmas movie I’ve ever

Todd: seen. Yeah, me too.

Craig: It was good. I liked it.

Todd: Oh, you’ll just, we also liked it overall. It’s not just a, I, that sounded highly qualified when you first said it.

Craig: It’s true now. Honestly, I worry. That I might oversell this a little

Todd: cause cause you love musical so much.

Craig: I just, I do. I love horror movies. I love horror comedies. I love horror Christmas movies.

Um, and I, I really do love musicals. I mean, stereotypes be damned.

Todd: I’m a

Craig: musical theater kind of guy and this fits, it fits the bill,

Todd: but you’re not a zombie fan.

Craig: No, I’m really not. You know, there have been there. We have talked about a lot of zombie movies or at least a good handful. And overall, I’m not a huge fan.

It’s not my favorite sub. Category of the horror genre, but we’ve seen some that I’ve really liked. And one of the ones that I’ve really liked is zombie land, which is also a horror comedy. And this movie gets compared to that a lot, I think just because of the comedic part of it. They’re not really all that much alike, but.

I see the comparison, but I would say that this is kind of. A marriage between Nat and like high school musical. And I say that having never seen any of the high school, I’ve never seen any of the high school musical movies. What my, my impression of them is that they would be like this.

Todd: Well, I believe we are coming into this conversation and I am more familiar with high school musical than you are.

Kind of blows bed area.

Craig: I’ve never seen know. I’ve never seen him. I teach high school and I, I have been teaching high school for a long time. So, you know, I was. Around teenagers when those movies came out and they really liked them. And they talked about them and high schools around our area where we’re doing them on stage.

And like I knew it was a thing. I just, I, I never got into it. But anyway, so, and then the apocalypse, uh, 2017 movie written by a couple of guys, these names made me laugh because it was written by Alan MacDonald and Ryan McHenry. And it was directed by John McPhail and it’s, it’s set and filmed in Scotland, like with all these Mack and nicknames.

Uh, I thought that was kind of funny. Um, but no, it’s, it’s, uh, you know, as far as zombie movies go, it’s. Fairly typical, you know, a bunch of people, ordinary people, and then there’s a zombie outbreak. This one happens to focus on primarily a group of high school students, seniors, most of them, I think. And you know, in, in the beginning, everything’s just very normal.

Uh, I guess, I don’t know, I’m getting ahead of myself. So I didn’t know much about this. Did you know anything about it going in,

Todd: but, um, uh, somebody on our website did request this, so shit big shout out to Neil for requesting this as well. It just so happened that, uh, we chose this film about a week before he requested it.

So it’s really nice to be able to have the ESP. To be able to put something in the pipeline that’s right. And do a request like that.

Craig: We’re really in tune with our lists. We can predict what they’re going to request even before they request it.

Todd: Do a third time zone difference. You know, I’m, I’m kind of in the future over here when we talk.

No. I agree with you though. Um, I didn’t know anything about this movie. I hadn’t even heard of it to be honest with you, but, uh, that’s probably because I was in China when all this came out and it was only in 2017, right. And released in the U S like, uh, in 2018. And so it’s pretty fresh and pretty new. I was pretty excited to see though, even though I hadn’t heard of it, I was kind of excited about this whole concept and I will say.

Having seen the high school musical movie, the first one multiple times, I, it almost felt like high school musical at some points. Like the staging, of course it said in a high school, but the way that. The camera work is and the kind of the humor and the way the characters are a bit carefree, especially during their singing.

And honestly, the tunes are very much in the flavor of the high school musical tunes. At least for the first half of the movie, it’s almost. Without zombies. Anyway, the first third, I guess, of the movie or so before the zombies come on the scene, we get at least three songs and those are all, three of them are pretty much in the similar style to high school musical.

I wouldn’t say rip off because. I know a lot of musical songs do follow a similar, I don’t know what you call it, you know, like way, I mean, a lot of modern musicals anyway, you know, something that’s not Rogers and Hammerstein, uh, something that was made in the last couple decades, they do tend to have a certain feel or instrumentation.

I don’t really know what to, I can’t really put my finger on it, but I bet you could.

Craig: Oh gosh. Yeah. I studied musical theater in college, uh, and, and. Uh, I, you know, having been a fan of musicals, I was actually kind of shocked to see that they do follow pretty rigid formulas really. And the, the songs here, you know, I could very easily identify, Oh, here’s the hero song?

Oh, here’s the I’m

Todd: lonely

Craig: under appreciated and, and, you know, want more out of my life song. Like it is formulaic in that way, but not. In a bad way, just in that’s how musicals roll. And I have to say that the thing that I was most pleasantly surprised about this movie was. That it is a legit musical. Now, when I read that it was a horror musical, I thought, Oh, okay, well the, you know, the high school band or, you know, there’ll be a band at the dance that sing some songs or something, you know, like there there’ll be music in it.

No, this is a legit musical. Like there are straight up huge performance numbers there, and there are, you know, more quiet. Introspective numbers, but songs galore like every five. Maybe 10 minutes, another song from beginning to end. It never relents. And I wouldn’t say that it’s, you know, some sort of masterpiece of musical theater, but totally competent.

Like the songs are great. Good. And they further the story and they are fun to listen to like, I might download this soundtrack and listen to it in the car. Yeah, I have to say I was impressed.

Todd: The lyrics are good. They’re funny. They get a little cliche at times. I mean a lot cliche at times, some of the lines in there, but.

They’re funny. There’s one in particular, there were at least there’s one really odd one called the fish wrap, which is two penguins in the play that actually comes up a couple times in the movie where they’re singing about fish. And that

Craig: was weird

Todd: and hilarious.

Craig: My favorite dish is fresh mothered Flippa and I eat it for the hell of it.

A nice bit of algebra. That’s not the only fish they got macro. I could take all that into stack salmon. I could drink it by the tempo

Todd: and uh, I think was it it’s that time of year when the one girl is in the musical, in the school singing? About Santa it’s like, like Santa baby song, but it’s super crass.

Craig: Oh my God. It was hilarious. And when we get to it, uh, that’s the thing, as I was listening to the, or as I was watching the movie, I kept thinking, Oh, Todd’s got to put a clip of this in because we’re never going to be able to.

Explain it, yeah, because it’s a song. And then at one point I was like, well, he can’t just put in the whole soundtrack

as much as I want you to. It would take up the whole podcasts

Todd: and we get flagged on YouTube for copyright violation.

Craig: It really is fun. It’s fun music. The story is engaging. And the other thing that I really liked about this and really, really surprised me is that I thought they do. Excellent job of characterization.

I did not expect at all to care about any of these characters. I thought this was going to be a stupid, silly, you know, zombie movie, especially with the added element of the musical. I expected it to be really cheesy and corny. I didn’t expect to care and I cried. Yeah, we’re the ones.

Todd: I can’t say I cried, but I could see how you would and how maybe I in a different frame of mind would have as well.

I’m a bit of a softy as well when it comes to this stuff. I mean, I agree with you. The characterization was very good, but for me it was all still very, uh, it’s hard for me to take a musical. No, I shouldn’t say that. It’s easy for me to take a musical. Seriously. I don’t know what it was about this. That maybe it’s just because it’s so high concept.

I mean, zombie’s musical, it’s very detached from reality. Musicals are already detached from reality. Zombie movies were already detached from reality. So it’s like two extra layers of that. So it, it got hard for me anyway, to really get into the characters because I was always aware I was watching, uh, Really silly, goofy mashup kind of movie.

I appreciated the character arcs and I appreciated the moments that I thought they were well handled once when somebody would die. And almost everybody dies.

Craig: Spoiler alert.

Todd: That was a, that was a shock to me as well. I couldn’t believe it. Even at the end, it almost seemed like maybe they were. They throw a line or two.

And at the end that made it seem like a sequel might have been in their minds. But I don’t know. I mean, it’s just going to be two people

Craig: you think,

Todd: cause almost everyone else is dead. So it does pick people off. It’s very into the woods that way. Isn’t it.

Craig: Yeah. And, and it did surprise me, but ultimately, you know, I thought that it was in good service to the storytelling, as sad as I was to see some of these characters go.

And I really was sad to see some of them go more so than I expected to be. But, uh, it, I don’t know. It got me. Anyway, getting into the movie, it opens up with this fun poppy Christmas song. That’s like something like Christmas means nothing without you or something. And it’s just a fun, upbeat Mariah Carey type, pop song, fun, and our main character, Anna and her best friend, John.

And I’m not going to bother with the actors names because they’re all kind of up and coming, plus they’re not American, I’m not familiar with them. So I can’t say anything that they’ve been in. I don’t know, but all talented, young, fresh actors. Yeah. But you’ve got Anna, who’s a teenage girl and her best friend, John, and they’re being driven to school by her dad.

Yeah. And it comes out accidentally. That she has decided that she’s going to put off, going to university for at least a year to travel. And, um, her dad is upset about that. And we find out that her mother has passed away and the dad makes a comment, like, what would your mother think of this or something?

And, you know, obviously kind of upsets her, but she’s. Determined John, I lied. I’m going to say his name. He was played by a kid named Malcolm coming. And the reason that I mentioned that it’s just because I found him to be so charming. And I think that part of the reason was because I identified so much with him.

He was this, he, he’s not a bad looking kid. In fact, I thought he was a very good looking young man, but not the typical. Jock sexy kind of guy that teenage girls are typically into, but he’s clearly pining for his best friend. And that was the position that I found myself in, in high school all the time. I had great.

Girl friends who I was secretly desperately in love with, but interested at all.

And, and at some point, yeah, in the movie, Anna gives John the, your, my best friend talk and I got that talk. Two or three times

Todd: high school.

Craig: So I felt for this kid, he’s cute. He’s funny. He’s a little bit dorky, but he’s a nice guy anyway. Um, and then we meet some other people there. Steph Steph has a cute pixie blonde haircut.

And I suspected from the beginning that she was a lesbian, which it turns out she is, but is totally inconsequential to the block. And there’s the headmaster of the school. Mr. Savage. Who’s a creepy power. Drunk guy. Yeah,

Todd: super creepy. Who would ever put this guy in a position? What school board elevated this man and to where he is now?

Craig: Mine.

Sorry. I’m

Todd: touching on there, but that’s

Craig: another story.

And it leads up to the opening song, which is the. The best I can describe it is the, the opening song in beauty and the beast, the bell song, like, yeah. Oh, I live in this little humdrum drum town and I have these big dreams. Um, but it’s a big group number and they all sing Ana. Steph and John all sing and like the lyrics are like trapped in the moment.

Ready to fly? Yeah.

Todd: A little cheesy. I thought it was a little cheesy, but I always get, I mean, it’s a musical, so it’s going to be cheesy.

Craig: Exactly. Exactly. Musicals are a little cheesy, but. I, you know, it was formulaic, it fits it. This is the opening number of a musical like this. Yeah. The, the it’s time to break away.

Uh, yeah, it’s cute. Then we meet Chris. Chris is a budding filmmaker, kind of a nerd. Um, We meet Lisa. Lisa is the school ingenue. Um, she’s going to be performing in the Christmas show that night we meet Nick. Nick is the good looking asshole, you know, very stereotypical. We find out that. I have in my notes used to date Anna, but I don’t really think that’s true.

I think they just kind of hooked up once. Yeah. Lisa and Chris are a couple. And then, I mean, I swear, we’re talking minutes between we have the next song, which this is the one that reminded me the most of high school musical. They perform it in the cafeteria. And it’s called no such thing as a Hollywood ending and they all sing.

You know, John is pining for Anna there’s, you know, a whole huge choreographed dance with all of the kids in the cafeteria. I just

don’t want to stop them. Just want to have some fun.

all of the characters sing about their situations and all of them seem to be longing for something. The only ones. Who are happy in the moment or Lisa and Chris, because they’re so with love in high school. So high school musical did it literally ends with all of them standing with their fists in the air,

Todd: you know, coming from a guy who hasn’t actually seen high school musical.

The fact that you still know that this is exactly how high school musical is. Kind of proves a point.

Craig: I mean, I I’ve S I’ve seen clips of it. I’ve just never actually sat and watched it at this point. Anna’s walking through the parking lot and she bumps into a zombie, but she doesn’t notice

Todd: there’s a little bit of this, a very, very little bit of this that we got in.

Shaun of the dead where it’s happening in the background, but also they’re playing with you a little bit. Like there’s a moment where Anna stops in the hallway and you hear this, which sounds a little bit like a zombie or monster or something behind her. And when she turns around, there’s a woman, a girl with an inhaler.

You know, there are these gotcha moments, just like Shaun of the dead, where you’re waiting, you’re waiting, you’re waiting for that moment when the first zombie comes in. Uh, and then it does, they do come in, in a big musical number later.

Craig: I actually thought that was very clever. I mean, it’s silly, but super clever.

Cause I was expecting her to turn around and see a zombie or something, but no, it is a girl with an inhaler. It was. It was funny. Anna works in a bowling alley that’s established, and then we see the Christmas. Pageant going on. And that’s when the penguin dance comes in weird. And the song, the song is called plenty of fish in the sea.

And it’s all about how penguins enjoy eating fish. The kids it’s just. Two kids, these big penguin outfits doing this choreographed number. Oh my God. But it was so funny. And then Lisa sings her song, which is like you said, kind of a Santa baby kind of song, or, um, I was kind of getting vibes of that scene in mean girls where they do the sexy, uh, Santa dance, but it’s full of a new window.

And warmed your milk and made your favorite snack. So come on over and unload your SAC. Um, cause you, maybe I know I don’t make you smile.

And then she has. These hot, mostly naked Santas. Like they’re just in like these little like red hot pants and suspenders and Santa hats dancing, but behind her, and while it’s very suggestive, it’s also really cute. Like I would die. Like if I were sitting in an audience and some girl came out and did this song, I would die and I would stand up and cheer at the end of it.

It was so funny. Uh, we see that there is homies outside the school. This is all it’s kind of a slow buildup.

Todd: It’s really slow. Actually. It is the story doesn’t feel slow, but this could just be another high school movie up about 30 minutes in 35, 40 minutes. And then, yeah, it’s, we’re really just establishing character in situation here.

Craig: They subtly remind you, you know, there are going to be zombies, just hold on a minute.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And, and then Anna and John get off work their shifts at the bowling alley. And there’s a funny scene there, but they ended up in this park and they make snow angels together and it’s very sweet and it’s so obvious that he’s into her and that she’s. What I wanted to happen was for them to go through this experience and for her to realize what a great guy he was and that they should be together.

And it doesn’t, you know what I mean? Sometimes friendships are just platonic, even if one of you wants it to be more. And that’s what it ends up being here, but he’s just such a sweet guy. And I. I was rooting for him. But anyway, my, I think my very favorite part of the movie is they go home and they go to bed and they wake up the next morning.

And both of them, both John and Anna decide it’s a new day and I’m going to be happy and it’s going to be a great day. And they both go out and they put in their earbuds and they do this. Big dancing down the street number and they are completely oblivious to the complete may hem that is going on all around them.

Buildings are burning. People are jumping out of windows. Zombies are attacking everywhere and they’re completely oblivious. And they sing this up, beat fun song about how it’s going to be a great day in a new start to there new lives, how they’re miles

Todd: away. They say that several and I’m miles away. I’m like, yeah, you guys are miles away.

Craig: it was so funny and there there’s, it’s so cute. And like John had. Said earlier that he was going to start running to school so he could get more fit. So he could like travel the world with her or something. And so he’s jogging to school and they ended up meeting, like coming together in the graveyard and they dance together and

so funny. And then they finished

Todd: their song. And a snowman

Craig: snowman,

Todd: the snowman suit, just stumbles towards him and plants himself face down

Craig: over. She’s like, sir, I am a first aid attendant. I can help you. She, she turns him over and his face is all bloody and gross and knees Groundling and nasty. And these are by the way.

Traditional slow moving zombies. These aren’t a 28 days later, fast moving zombies. And so they can just basically kind of back away and, and express their confusion and shock. And they back into the same park where they had been. The night before and she uses a piece of playground equipment. I couldn’t really tell what it was.

It kind of looked like a CSR or something, but it’s like, it’s on a spring or something. And she, she pulls it back and has John lure the zombie towards them. And when she releases it, it snaps up and not. Knocks the zombies whole head off and blood is scoring out of the stuff on his neck, all over them and they’re screaming.

And then it just shows them sitting together, like what is going on? And he’s like, there’s zombies. And she’s like, that’s stupid. There’s no such thing as zombies. And he points. He’s like, yeah, cause that’s totally normal. And the zombie head is still alive and like growling and snarling. It is also a comedy and it is very funny.

I mean, I was laughing throughout it’s. It’s good.

Todd: Yeah. And I was wondering up until this point, if this was going to be a world where people knew about zombies, you know, it going to be. One of those things where they use the word zombie and they do, it’s also very established without anybody figuring it out.

They know that if some, one of them gets bit.

Craig: Yeah. And like in a lot of these movies, there’s really no explanation for why this is happening.

Todd: There’s talk about. And actually that was a little creepy, right? There’s a little talk about how that some parts of town I think are under a little bit of lockdown because the flu virus this year has been a little more harsh than normal.

Uh, and that comes over the radio early on, and one of the very first stage and they’re driving in the car and she shuts the radio off just as the announcer is about to say Rihanna mate. So I guess the only implication here is that it’s just some kind of mutated version of the flu.

Craig: Oh, I know. And that was really weird to hear like it’s in the very first scene when they’re in the car.

We categorize the pandemic first thought to be a super virus strain of the flu. It has now been determined to be a lethal packaging, seemingly capable. Oh, great. This is exactly what I need.

Todd: Yeah. I don’t know if it would turn your life into a musical though. I mean, there’s a, there’s an upside to everything I suppose.

Craig: For you. Um, most of the people are, are holed up in the school because I guess after the, uh, pageant, they realized that there was B, so most people have spent the night there, but Chris and Steph, Chris is the filmmaker. Steph is the cute blonde. Um, They had been off shooting, like a think piece about the homeless, uh, in their town, but we find them hiding in the bowling alley and, and John and Anna go there too.

Because they, they need Wi-Fi. They want to see what’s going on the phone phones aren’t working, but they think maybe the internet is so they go there too. They watch the news online and they see that. Yes, in fact, this is going on, but they hear that most, they hear that most people are holed up in the school and that the military is going to be sending in rescue mission.

So they just hang out there. And there’s a funny scene where the two boys, John and Chris are like, Hanging out in the ball pit and they’re talking about celebrities and which celebrities are probably zombies. They like, uh, what about like Ryan Gosling? And John’s like, doesn’t matter that dude’s cool, whether he’s alive or dead.

And then Chris goes, what about Taylor Swift? And John goes. Why would you say that K is fine? Don’t say,

okay. Oh, I thought it was funny. Then there’s a zombie attack. The cleaning lady who had been there the night before is a zombie and attacks the girls in the bathroom and stuff like smashes her head, the toilet seat. And this is a gory movie. I wouldn’t say it’s scary. I, I didn’t think it was scary at all, but not appropriate for children because it is.

Very violent and very gory. Well

Todd: that said. There’s a lot of Gore and blood, but there isn’t a lot of very gory. Uh, what, what should I say affects like, as far as seeing something being driven through somebody’s skull or seeing that moment where that head gets cut off, a lot of this violence, a surprising amount of it happens off screen or just outside of the frame, or we see from the back.

You know, what’s happening in the front. I thought that was odd considering how much blood and Gore is being thrown around. And, you know, there’s, there’s moments. The, like when they get attacked in the bowling alley, there’s all kinds of funny stuff like where the zombies ends up, sliding down the bowling alley, uh, and gets his head cut off by the.

Piece of the machine that comes down to sweep the pins away. And then the head ends up in the ball return. There’s a lot of goofy stuff like that. That, uh, even though for example, that scene, you don’t actually see his head getting cut off.

Craig: I get what you’re saying. You’re right. It’s it’s not as in your face as.

Like Romero stuff, for example. But like in that same scene, John takes two bowling balls and smashes zombie’s head between them. And you see all of that. You see the head get smashed in the blood spray out and it’s practical effect and it looks good. I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily say it looks real, but it looks as real as a practical effect can look, uh, it’s funny.

Cause he does it. Then he pukes. Because it was so

Todd: gross

Craig: this scene, you know, there’s these four kids, I guess, in there at this point and they’re fighting, I don’t know, a whole bowling team of zombies and it’s good fight choreography, like totally competent. I was really impressed that the director of this movie had directed, I think one feature league.

Filmed before. And he had done, um, several shorts, but you know, he’s a relatively new director and for a relatively new director, I thought that this shows a lot of promise.

Todd: Yeah. I completely agree. Uh, what I was going to say, going back to what you’d said earlier about it not being that scary. I think one of my main beefs of the film.

Is that the zombie action is so sporadic and it just utterly stops when it needs to, whenever the kids need to get together and have a moment or sing a song. There’s all the time in the world and no zombies in sight. And even when they’re outside and, uh, you know, with a lot of zombie movies, usually it’s like, you’re, you’re dealing with this really pressing ho hoard, you know, this real issue, like everybody’s holed up in a shopping mall or everybody’s holed up in the house, just a relentless hoard and it’s constant running and trying to get away

Craig: here.

Todd: It felt like the zombies were pretty spread out, you know, like they’re in the bowling alley and once they fend off the. Dozen or so zombies that happened to break into the bowling alley. They’ve got plenty of time now to just sit around and wait and look things up on the computer and then sing the song, which I thought was the one of the weakest as a song.

It was good, but fitting in with the plot, it almost didn’t make sense. A song called human voice, where they’re sitting there talking about how they need a human voice. And it seems to be talking about how technology keeps people apart or whatever, but none of them are isolated. They’ve they’re all in groups together.

The parents are holed up in the school. Um, these group guys are holed up in the bowling alley, so it seemed a little premature. In the plot for them to be sitting around singing about an isolation that they’re not having.

Craig: Well, if it’s true that they’re not isolated, but they are separated from their loved ones.

Um, and, and that was one of the things that I liked in this song. And his dad is the janitor at the high school, and we’ve seen him bef you know, and, and they’ve interacted, but we see him in this song. Laying down on a cot or something at school. Cause it’s nighttime at this point and there’s, you know, destruction and death everywhere.

And he’s just laying on this cot, looking at a picture of her on his phone and he’s crying and he sings too briefly in that moment. Um, so Anna and her dad are separated. Chris is separated from his girlfriend, Lisa, and also he has this very elderly. Uh, grandma who is with Lisa at the school because she had been at the pageant or, or whatever.

So he, yes, they are. Together with people, but they are also still worried about the people that they love. And I, and that’s kind of the driving force of the movie because that’s, you know, Anna and Chris especially are trying desperately to get back to the school because they want to be reunited with the people that they’re worried about.

And, you know, it’s a silly zombie movie, but at the same time, there’s a little bit of emotional impact there. When I saw the dad. Laying down and looking at a picture of his daughter on his phone and crying like that. That’s not one of the parts where I cried, but it tugged at my heartstrings a little bit.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Well, you know, it’s a kind of vulnerability that you don’t often see in a character like this, right? He’s a widower and he’s. Seems to be doing all right, but a bit broken by it. And clearly, very much loves his daughter. And, uh, is also, I, he was kind of, even though we didn’t actually see much of him in the movie, he did have quite a role to play.

Ah, and you know, just again, a Testament to the writing, you really felt like you still pretty well knew the guy and what he was going through. You know, they’re just these quick little scenes where the, the principal at the school is. Basically putting them down as just a janitor and he still weekly kind of handles that, but you can see it hurts him.

And, uh, you know, I mean, it’s really, it’s really interesting. This actor is one of the most decorated and the whole movie production. I think he’s been in hundreds of things, I think mostly over in Britain, but TV series out the wazoo and bit parts and all kinds of movies for decades. Uh, so if he looks a little familiar to you.

Yeah. Uh, he, he reminded me actually the father in gremlins. Um, I still think that song though, if it had been about family separation, you know, that’s one thing, but this whole song was about being separated by technology and it just didn’t quite fit. I thought it was shoehorned in a little bit. It seemed like somebody wrote a song that, yeah.

That kind of fit there. So they put it in, it was the only song that I felt was that way in the whole movie, honestly. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. I agree. I think it was probably the weakest of them all, but even being the weakest of them all, it didn’t really bother me, but no, I totally agree with you. I just want to throw in a little something here.

You talked about how. The a headmaster is really derogatory towards the custodian. Now, my experience is limited because though I’ve been teaching for almost 20 years, I’ve been teaching in the same district for almost 20 years. So I can’t say, um, what things are like everywhere, but that’s not the culture.

Of my school in my school, everybody recognizes that we would be completely lost without the custodial staff. The custodial staff is. An integral part of our runnings. So, uh, it, it just, it, it didn’t surprise me because I think stereotypically, you know, that’s kind of a typical people look down on. You know, custodial workers or whatever, but in real life, we exalt those people because we know that we could not do it without them.

So custodial workers out there mad props. See you.

Yeah. Anyway, just wanted to throw that in. Um, when they wake up in the morning, they all sleep in the ball pit under the balls, which I thought was hilarious. And then they all wake up and come up out of the ball pit and. They look outside and the army has arrived, but they’re all zombies now, too. So they know that there’s no rescue coming, but they still need to get to the school.

And so they don’t know how they’re going to get through the horde, the small hoard, as you’ve said. So they thought this was so funny. The ball pit is actually just a somewhat large. Children’s um, inflatable swimming pool. So they just dump all of the balls out of it and hold it over their heads. So it’s just like their legs sticking out from under this pool.

And anytime they see zombies, they just squat down. So the pool is like covering them. So this is obvious. Can’t see them, which I thought was so funny. And at one point somebody peeks out and they’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s a whole bunch of old people. And so they’re sitting under there. And an old lady, zombie sits on steps head and she looks so annoyed.

She’s the cynic of the group. Anyway, and this old lady sits on her head and then you hear, and she’s like, is she pissed? Oh, it’s plastic, more plastic.

And then Nick, the sexy, bad guy. And his friends show up.

Todd: He’s like the Negro of the group.

Craig: Well, yeah, I don’t watch that show either, but right, exactly. Uh, even down to the baseball bat, no barbed wire around it, but with the baseball bat and he sings a song. About fighting zombies and the lyrics, like when it comes to killing zombies, I’m the top of my class.

And the chorus is like, I’m a soldier at war and there’s this whole scene of him and his friends just gleefully killing zombies. It’s silly and stupid, but it’s. Kind of funny and at the same time it makes you realize, and this is not unique. I’ve seen it in other movies. These zombies definitely are a threat.

If they can get ahold of you, especially if a group of them can get ahold of you, but so long as you just kind of stay away from them. Well, they, they’re not going to run and chase you. Like, you just kind of have to keep away from them. And if you want to be aggressive and fight them, mean they’re slow moving.

So you just go up to them and hit them over the head with a baseball bat and they’re down. Then we cut back to the school and the penguins are eating.

The last we see of the penguins, I wish they had just kept popping up because they’re so funny. Oh, but the people at the school are planning to leave, but Savage, the headmaster is losing it and is trying to convince them to stay. And that’s when Anna gives John that you’re my best friend talk and I felt bad for him.

And then the teenagers now joined by Nick and his friend end up at, like, I couldn’t tell if it was like a mall or if it was just like an indoor Christmas tree. See, that was weird or something.

Todd: Now, it was like an, uh, an outdoor shopping mall that obviously nobody was there and there was some kind of very large, apparently Christmas tree warehouse, Emporium, or whatever that they decided to go through.

So it’s like, they’re going through a forest inside and sneaking through, and then they don’t get very far before there’s zombies pop-out and get half of them. It gets all of Nick’s friends. Yeah. Uh, and then I think, yeah. Coming up as the same, that probably made you cry first.

Craig: Oh, okay. You’re right. It totally is.

I had in my notes that Chris almost loses his phone and he explains to Steph that the reason that he was so determined to keep it as, because it has all of his pictures and videos of his friends and family, and she says, They’re alive and he says, no, they’re not in, you know it. And you know that your family is not alive either.

And it’s just kind of a sad moment, but they do get out. And John and Anna are having a cute, cute moment, but it ends with John spreading his hands out like Tata and from around a corner, zombie grabs his hand and bites him. And I was so sad. I loved that kid. He was my favorite care to her. They know, of course that that’s it.

Todd: Yeah. But that was a weakness of the staging of this movie is, you know, it’s like they get through this Emporium and they be set by zombies and they get away and then they close the door behind them and suddenly they’re fine, but there’s a whole hallway or something out in front of them and they have their moment.

And as he spreads his arm out, A zombie just pops out of nowhere around the corner and bites his arm. Then they sit down and they have a moment like where, like there’s more zombies coming towards them, but they kind of don’t notice them and their friends come by and then suddenly the zombies are there.

And this was how a lot of the action was, you know, it was like, Zombies zombies zombies, then inexplicably, we’re safe for a while. We’d not even paying attention to anything. And then we have these moments and then okay. Zombies again, you know, it, it wasn’t very realistic.

Craig: Yeah. I see what you’re saying. The way that I read it was that they were both.

So. Shocked and taken aback and dealing with the revelation of what this means that they just kind of became invisible. Well, maybe it kind of became a blur Olivia’s for just a second. Like it’s like they sit there for a half an hour, like it’s just a second where they’re looking at each other and they both know what it means.

And. Then the zombies, you know, it’s a whole group of them kind of surrounding them coming up. And it looks like, even though Anna’s got this big candy cane that she’s using to kill zombies, which is kinda awesome, even though she’s got that, they’re approaching them so quickly and it’s such a short distance that it seems like they’re doomed, but in the last minute, John, who is a big guy, A tall guy taller than me.

He grabs her and kind of in cases, her in her arms. And he turns his back to the zombie hoard and backs through it so that they can’t get ahold of her. And once he has gotten kind of through it, he whips around and pushes her away. And then the zombies just take him down and are eating him. And you hear him screaming and, yeah, I don’t know.

It’s not like I was weeping, but my. Eyes were definitely glistening.

It was sweet and sad and, and Anna freaks out and, you know, I don’t know, like it, it, it, to bring her back Steph kind of shakes her and says your dad’s waiting for you. And it works, you know, she kind of, you know, she snaps out of it and then she leads the pack fighting through this zombie hoard with her big candy cane.

Uh, and so they do, they get back to school, but they only find headmaster Savage there. And he says to them, very ominously, you’ll be wanting to see your parents. You’re very lucky because they almost left and I’m like, Oh no. What I expected to have happened here was for him to have. Released the zombies onto their families.

I thought, Oh my gosh, this is going to get really dark really fast. When they walk into a room and find all of their family members turned into zombies, and I thought that’s what was happening because they do walk into the place where everybody had been. And there are a bunch of zombies in there, but as it turns out, it’s not all of their families.

What Savage had done is to prevent them from leaving. He had opened the doors and let the zombies in. So everybody had to run away. So everybody’s split up now and he leads the kids back to this room and then locks them in with the zombies and sings his crazy villain song, which is also kind of stupid.

But formulaic, you know, it’s the villain song. Ha nothing’s gonna stop me now. Blah, blah, blah,

Todd: whatever. From what? I’m not sure. I mean, I guess he’s just going crazy.

Craig: And his character is dumb. I mean, he, he even looks dumb. He’s, he’s got like crazy hair and a crazy beard that looks like they glued it on all my life.

They told me I would never succeed. They don’t control me. Maybe follow that lead. I say sold me for too long, but now

nothing’s got us.

It took me time to close up by now, but I never led you to go. No, Kristen Steph find Lisa, which is nice, but Chris’s grandmother had died because she had a bad heart. Not because she had gotten attacked by design bees and that’s kind of a sweet little moment. Then this part of the movie, God, this is the only part of the movie I’m mad about.

And not because it’s badly done, but because I just didn’t like the story element of it that Anna and Nick, who’s just a prick like, and everybody says that throughout. And it bothered me throughout the movie that Nick was a total Dick to John all the time. And Anna never said anything about it. Like if he really is your very best friend, like maybe don’t let your.

Hunky jerky, hookup guy. Belittle him all the time that bothered. Yeah. Nick have a heart to heart and it turns out that Nick really isn’t, you know, a sensitive person too. And, um, she’s like, what did you ever do for anybody that wasn’t just for yourself? And he’s like, well, I had to kill my dad. Cause he got bit and he begged me to kill him.

So I did. Okay. And then he’s also selfless because the zombies come and he pushes Anna away and takes them on, on his own. And it cuts away, you know, from him. He kind of starts to sing his zombie killing song again. And I could tell. You know that the movie was trying to make it look like he was sacrificing himself.

But I also knew that because we didn’t see him die on screen, that he would. Yeah.

Todd: It’s all predictable.

Craig: I know. And then, you know, a bunch of stuff happens, but Steph and Chris and Lisa have to try to get her car keys out of the way. Headmaster’s office and Steph makes it in there, but then the zombies hear her.

And so Chris and Lisa tried to create a diversion. And what they do is they put on his videotape of all of their, you know, friendly, good times before all of this happens on the TV to distract the zombies, which works, but then the zombies see them or hear them or something. And both Chris and Lisa get bit.

And I just didn’t expect it. I expected it. Uh, frankly, I kind of expected all of the kids to make it. I just thought it would be that kind of movie, Chris and Lisa get bit, and they embrace knowing what’s going to happen. And Chris waves goodbye to Steph and she waves goodbye and just walks away. And as silly as this movie is in these moments, It’s actually really sweet.

Like, I don’t know, maybe you disagree. Maybe you find it to be over the top, but I found these actually to be really kind of human sweet, sad moment.

Todd: Um, yeah, I think everybody had their moment and I guess that’s very musical, isn’t it. Every character is going to have their song and we’ve all got to kind of stop and take time to.

To take it in before we leave them. And so, you know, that was kind of what was happening here too. And maybe just because it was so formulaic like that I was a little more detached from it, but I will say it was very well done. It didn’t come across as corny and cheesy or bad. They looked like a couple that were embracing their fate as zombies.

And then there’s a moment later where we see that. Room and peep, zombie are still, are still shuffling around and those two are zombies and they’re shuffling back and forth, but their hands brush each other as they’re going by.

Craig: Oh, I thought it was sad.

Todd: Sad,

Craig: right? Well, like, like they, they, they walk right by one another and it’s like, their hands just kind of brushed, but it’s almost like they linger a little bit, like, yeah.

I don’t know. I don’t know if the movie was trying to suggest that some part of their humanity was still there. I mean, they’re obviously just lumbering zombies. They’re not walking around hand in hand, but as they happen to pass their hands kind of linger for just a moment. Yeah. I liked it. And you mentioned into the woods before, and I think that was a good comparison because in that show, in the second act, people that you care very much about and who have had redemption arcs die, it is sad.

And I feel like that happens here too. Not necessarily redemption arcs, Chris and Lisa were very, very likable characters from the beginning. They didn’t need any redemption, but, uh, it’s sad. Oh, anyway, um, Anna ends up, she. Gets to the auditorium where the Christmas pageant or whatever had been. And so everything’s still all set up and there’s a bunch of zombies in there, but Savage has her dad tied up with Christmas, Christmas lights on the stage, and apparently the zombies aren’t smart enough to figure out how to get up there.

Apparently up there they’re safe, but Anna. He, I don’t know what Savage says. He challenges her something, but she kneels down and starts putting her hair up and sings the hero song, you know, the hero fight song at the end. And it’s like, you know, when you’re called to the stage, give them one hell of a show or something like that.

And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it, but there was a musical episode of Buffy the vampire Slayer. That was amazing. And there’s basically this exact same. Moment where in that in Buffy Buffy, you know, has to suit up and fight all these demons while she’s singing her hero arc song. And I love that episode of that show.

Well, I love the whole show, but I love that episode of that show. And this was very reminiscent of it. So I liked this too, and she fights zombies while she’s singing and Savage duets with her. Eventually she jumps on stage and untied her dad and her dad fights Savage, which was very satisfying. And the dad has the opportunity to throw Savage to the zombies, but he doesn’t.

But when he turns his back Savage goes to attack him again. And so Anna knocks him off of the stage to the zombies and he gets eaten. And here’s the moment where my eyes more than glistened. Anna’s happy to be with her dad. And she says, we’ve got a car. We can go. And he looks very melancholy and shows her that he’s been bitten on his leg, which I don’t.

Really understand when that happened. Did you, did it happen? And I missed

Todd: it. Fight Savage had had him kind of backed up against the zombies at the edge of the stage. And I think we didn’t actually see it happen, but I think the implication is the one of them. It must have reached out or gotten to his leg at that point.

Craig: Okay. Yeah. I didn’t know. I mean, I didn’t care. I believed it, it happened whatever. I just didn’t see it, so I didn’t know what to happen. Um, but he’s been bit. And so they have to say this sad, heartfelt goodbye. And it really is sad. And, you know, he talks about how proud he is of her and how proud her mom would have been.

And she doesn’t want to leave him, but she says he has to. And of course, this is when Nick shows up and the dad says, well, I’m not, I don’t really love your boyfriend. And she’s like, he’s not my boyfriend. And he’s like, well, okay, then it’s a good

Todd: Chicago.

Craig: She asks if he wants her. To kill him. And he says no.

And Nick says, no, don’t do it. Like,

Todd: like nicknames that wasn’t, uh,

Craig: yeah, it messed him up. So don’t do it. So Nick pulls her away and as she’s being pulled away, the dad says, Merry Christmas, Anna. And she says, Merry Christmas, dad, it killed me. It killed me. It’s killing me again, just talking about it.

But they go outside and there’s zombies everywhere and it looks very hopeless. Like they’re kind of surrounded and they sing the sad pensive reflective in the song, you know, and the lyrics are. Whereas the light that used to shine, where is the life? That once was mine, but then the chorus is like, while there is hope, while I still breathe, I will believe.

And it looks like, it looks like the two of them are going to get, you know, killed by these zombies. And then, and that’s when we see the montage of zombie Lisa, Nick, and the. Lounge or whatever. And then we see zombie John sitting back in that mall where they were before, which again made me sad and he accidentally he’s, he’s been wearing this ugly Christmas sweater throughout, and we know that it lights up, but he only did that for a second earlier.

But in this moment, like, as his zombie arms are flailing around, he accidentally turns it on. Any kind of looks down and looks at it. And that broke my heart too. We see the dad die, looking at a picture of, and on his phone, it’s all very. Kind of depressing and the zombies are approaching, but it starts to snow and it’s, you know, it’s like the magic of it.

Chris

Steph rips around the corner of her car and picks up like slams on the brakes and looks at them through the window and says, boom, saved your life.

Yeah, and they get in the car. And in the background quietly, you start to hear that song from the beginning that no such thing as a Hollywood ending playing and Steph says what next? And they all just kind of look at each other and they just keep driving. The Merry Christmas banner flies across the scene, and then zombie Sante pops up in front of the camera.

And then there’s a super, super cute animated credit sequence that kind of, you know, shows basically the events of the movie, but it’s animated and Christmas special style. Very cute. And then it’s over. And dude, I did not expect to like this as much as I did, but at this point I’m kind of pissed. That this came out in 2017 and I’ve only, I’m only seeing it now.

And I thought about because my, my partner is big into musicals too, but I thought, you know, this is probably going to be stupid, so I didn’t watch it with him, but I got a half an hour into it and I’m like, Oh my gosh, he would like this. And by the time I was done with it, I went back and talked to him and I’m like, we’re going to watch this and you’re going to like it.

And I’m really looking forward to showing it to him now because he loves Christmas movies. In fact, he told me the other day that he thinks that Crump has, may be his new favorite Christmas movie, really, which made me really happy. Wow. But anyway, I can underst if you, if you’re not a fan of musical theater, you’re not going to enjoy this movie because it is a musical.

It is a legit musical. Um, but if you do like musical theater and if you like horror comedy, this it’s gold. I love it.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, I, I knew that I was just going to have to let you do all the talking for this episode,

Craig: which is a huge change from usual. Oh yeah.

Todd: Right.

Because I mean, I, I love musicals too. I I’m not into them. Like, uh, you know, I don’t keep up with the newest ones, but I do love musicals. I’ve seen a lot of them on TV and movies. I’ve seen a lot of the monsters. Stage, um, you’re right. This is first and foremost, a musical second. A comedy third, a holiday movie and fourth, a horror movie.

The horror of the situation is, you know, again, in a, in another musical, these, these characters, this guy would die from cancer. You know, this person would have to go away forever. It’s very formulaic and it’s just layered over with the disaster beef setting. Everybody is the zombies. So in that respect, um, it’s fun to watch, uh, the zombie aspect of it, if you’re really hoping for that.

I mean, like I said, it’s not scary and there’s not a lot of tension there when it comes to the zombies, but it is gory and very inventive with those. Staginess of the scenes and the fight sequences are good. Like you said, the dance sequences are good and the music is good. You know, it’s not going to win major awards, but one or two of those songs, you know, would probably make it into my playlist.

They’re catchy and fun. Gosh, that time of year, I think it’s called it’s that time of year. That song that she sings about Santa coming down. Empty cosac, uh, that will definitely make it into my Christmas playlist for sure. So nothing else out of this movie? So we got to, we got to thank Neil for the request.

Like you said, a good discovery this year, this holiday we’re doing pretty well so far for holiday movies, I think.

Craig: Well, and, and I, I really firmly believe that like Krampus, which has become, you know, an, an annual tradition in our house, I think this will too. We really. Enjoy, you know, the holiday movies, horror, comedy, whatever, you know, sweet, well we’re into that kind of stuff.

And this totally fits the bill. I really believe we’ll be watching it probably every year for a long time. And I really enjoyed it. And listeners, if you haven’t seen it, it’s available on Amazon prime. I think it’s available on another streaming service too. I don’t remember one thing to mention the version that I watched on Amazon prime.

Is the U S cut. There was a European cut that had a few more minutes, but there’s also a blue Ray cut that has like 15 additional minutes. And I think a couple of extra songs, and I may want to look into that at some point, but even the, the version that’s available widely online, you know, that’s the one we talked about today.

It’s great. I highly recommend it and I hope you enjoy it. And we’ll be back with you next week with one more Christmas movie. If you enjoyed this episode. As always, please feel free to share with friends, recommend us, leave us a review comments. Start at the top. This discussion with us, you know, on Facebook, you can private message us.

You know, we get private messages all the time. We try to respond to those as much as we can. Um, we love hearing from you. You can find us anywhere. You can find podcasts. We have a website, got a Facebook page we’re on all of these streaming services, Google plus iTunes, all that kind of stuff. So until next time I’m Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Well, we’re back with one of the goofiest, groaniest, holiday horror comedies we have ever done. What do you expect with a professional wrestler carrying the show? Don’t expect much, but anyway, it’s fun for a certain crowd.

Santa’s Slay (2005)

Episode 238, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of two guys and a the chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Hoho. We are week two into December running through a holiday horror movies. You know, I think we’ve said in years past that it’s kind of tough finding a horror movie for the holidays, but Greg, you recently sent me a huge list.

On bloody disgusting that went on for pages. There are dozens of Christmas movies out there. We haven’t even done yet that either somehow or related to Christmas or take place during Christmas or flat out killer Santa Claus or Krampus part one, two through five. All have varying qualities and things like that.

It does seem like a way more than Halloween. Maybe we’re really not going to be wanting for Christmas horror movies for a very long time. I think. So it kind of becomes a case of a, what do you pick and Craig and I don’t like to review. I mean, we, it’s always fun to enjoy. A movie that’s so bad. It’s good.

But we don’t really intentionally set out to review just really horrible, awful, terrible, bad movies. Right. So when you’re looking at these Christmas movies on this list, you gotta be a little careful. And when I saw this movie, I thought it might, we might regret it because I never heard of it before I.

Don’t know if it was ever released in the theaters. And it’s called Santas slay, spelled S L a Y.

Craig: And it was

Todd: released in 2005, you know, that. DVD cover looks pretty cheap and it’s billed as a comedy fantasy on IMDP. It doesn’t say anything about horror, although it’s definitely horror because it’s really, really gory.

Uh, and it’s, it’s a slasher movie. It’s about a killer Santa. So we set out to review this and I knew nothing about it. So how about you, Craig, had you heard of this before? Had you seen it before?

Craig: You know, it’s funny. I was looking at it and I was like, Or am I, are we sure we haven’t done this already?

It’s been so long and we’ve done so many, but, uh, no, I took a look at it and it looked somewhat familiar. So I thought maybe I had seen it before it turns out I hadn’t, I must have just read about it or seen it somewhere. And I was looking at, um, The IMDV page. I didn’t want to read a lot of spoilers or anything, but I just, you know, see who it was directed by, who was in it and that kind of stuff.

And I’m reading all these names like James Khan and Chris Catan and Fran Drescher. And I’m like, Whoa, like what’s. Rebecca Gay heart. Like not necessarily that aside from James Khan, not that any of these are like, you know, a list, film actors or anything. I mean, Fran Drescher is famous in her own. Right.

And Rebecca Gayheart has done some genres.

Todd: Oh, they’re all pretty famous though. I mean, Rebecca Gayheart with the knock SEMA girl. Remember her?

Craig: I know she was, she was. The killer in urban legend. I know. I’m not saying I don’t like her. I, I, yeah. And that’s, I was pressed to see all of these names.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Craig: And as you know, I don’t guess that I should have really been surprised by this, but all of those big names really are just cameos in the first scene.

Todd: It’s true.

Craig: Which is really funny and really silly,

Todd: really silly,

Craig: but you know, it, it sets the tone, uh, for the movie. Honestly, it left me though. It was very funny and I really did enjoy, especially that first scene.

Um, It always kind of makes me feel bad for poor James Caan. James Khan is an amazing actor. He’s a really great actor, but he’s been divorced so many times that he just has to take any role. Offered to him because he’s paying all these ex-wives. I mean, I’ve seen him talk about this in interviews. It’s really like, yeah.

He just has to take anything that’s offered, which is too bad because he used to be kind of at the top of his game. Um, but whatever, you know, he’s a good sport about it, or at least he appears to be on screen. And so whatever overall. I, I get, you know, what this movie is about, you know, I think that it originally premiered on German television, in a series of, uh, films that the German title is like the worst movies ever made or something like that.

So it knows

Todd: what it is,

Craig: what it is and, and what it’s trying to be. And that’s fine. Frankly after that first scene, I found it just kind of be a slog to get through. Yeah. I was excited when I looked it up on IMTP and saw that it was only an hour and 17 minutes. I was like, woo. It felt long. Really, really long.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And, and it’s, it’s, it’s just silly and, and have some kind of incoherent plot points. And the thing that I guess bothered me, but shouldn’t have. Because I think that if somebody were seeking out this type of movies, silly, heavy on the action, um, if somebody were seeking it out, I think that they would be satisfied.

I, I don’t know, as always, I watched it in the middle of the day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just felt like they thought of these interesting scenes. To insert Santa in and do kind of these set piece killer Santa things with every gag, like every Christmas, uh, item you can think of to kill somebody with Santa uses in this movie, but it felt like that’s what they did.

They filmed these great set pieces and these like kind of one-off scenes. And then they kind of wove it together with a storyline, but the storyline is a little. Blah. And like

Todd: and it’s really, it’s all just an excuse for these action bits and the action scenes are quite good. Actually. I was, I thought the action scenes were very serviceable. It shows it’s low budget in so many ways. The movie does at times look really cheap. I mean, sometimes the sets look like cheap. Sets. And at other times there’s a lot of outdoor action with what are obviously crane shots or things seem actually pretty big.

It’s really interesting that dichotomy there, when you’re watching the movie, I found it a little jarring, you know, when we first started it up and this first scene starts out just in, um, It’s just like a rich family. It’s like boobs, boobs,

Craig: boobs, Chris Catan, James con

Todd: Chrissy tangent James. Right. And everybody’s just sitting there just goofy stuff is happening.

Like somebody’s trying to put his hand up for somebody else’s skirt under the table. And James con’s just like, Pissed off for some reason. And there’s a tiny little dog that’s yapping around that has its own little bed, you know, just a stereotypical, we’re all rich kind of house. And then Santa comes down the chimney ho-ho and immediately starts slaughtering everybody

Craig: starting with the dog,

Todd: the dog across the room, which was awesome

Craig: into the, into the ceiling fan.

I thought that was. Hilarious was boy. I mean the whole scene is funny. Like they’re just assholes. They’re just rich assholes. That’s what they’re playing. And you know, I, I probably, all of these people have fans. There were two daughters, um, that I didn’t recognize, but I bet somebody would, I dunno, but, um, one of them, uh, says like the blessing.

Thank you for the bountiful food that you’ve provided for us. And that our loving family can be together. This Christmas also, thank you for not making us poor. Or Samoan, thank you for maximum pharmaceuticals. The latest am class and those that are less fortunate.

And that’s when Santa comes down and Sanchez played by a professional wrestler slash actor. This isn’t his only movie. His name is bill Goldberg and he’s this big hulking guy. He looks like a professional wrestler, but he’s got the long white, gray beard, and they’ve got them dressed as Santa of course.

He burst through the fireplace and they all sit there. Wide-eyed and, um, Fran Drescher says Sandy, and he’s like, yes, Virginia, there is a

Todd: Santa clause

Craig: and there, and there are so many things. Stupid bid lines like that. Yeah. You know, if you’re in the right frame of mind, it would make you laugh. I guess I just, I was I’m rolling my eyes.

And then it’s just, you know, series of violence, which is what the movie is about. He and goofy violence. He kicks the dog into the ceiling fan and then he does like a barrel roll onto the table and he stabs the dad’s hands into the table with like the meat. Fork and knife or something, and he blow torches mom’s face and then drowns her in the eggnog.

And you know, these are it’s James Cod and Fran Drescher, and it’s kind of funny to see French

Todd: race running around with makeup,

Craig: towards to the face. It’s kind of funny.

Todd: Somebody runs away and he grabs the star off the top of the Christmas tree and throws it like a Ninja star across the room and, and pale.

It’s all this kind of.

Craig: Yeah. He ends up bludgeoning the dad with like the Christmas roast and I mean, and, and that’s it. And then the title comes up and then there’s a, uh, Uh, credits sequence where they kind of show you the backstory. And I was w but everything like there’s texts, uh, it, it it’s like pages of a book and you can see the illustrations, but the text is in Icelandic.

And I was thinking, Oh my gosh, I have to pay close attention to this because I can’t read it. So I have to pay close attention to what. The pictures are showing me. So I know what the backstory is. Well, it turns out there’s a big exposition scene later, so you don’t really need to pay that close attention.

But, uh, what you do get from it is that. Santa was involved in some sort of contest. He was evil that he was involved in some sort of contest and it was supposed to be good for he lost. And then he had to be nice and give away gifts for a thousand years or something. But it shows you when it started. And then in 2005, which is when the movie was released and when it’s set time’s up and he’s evil again.

Todd: Yeah. Well, Say it as like the antichrist, basically, like it said, there were two Virgin births, right. One belonged to God and was Jesus at one belong to Satan and it was right. But yeah, he, he became, like you said, there was a deal that happened and a contest and he lost and he was forced to become good for a thousand years.

And now. He the thousand years is up. Yep. So this takes place in a place called hell township and yeah, just like the first scene. The next scene is in this Jewish deli with the stereotypical Jewish deli owner there. Um, and there’s a kid working there. His name is Nicholas and there’s this woman named Mrs.

Talbot, who is just the most foul mouth bitter woman. You could imagine what

Craig: the hell is in the holiday. Hoagie Turkey, cranberry stuffing me. Turkey raising that’s Cheerios, cranberries, gummy bears. Altoids. Oh, we are being cute. You little shit. Just give me the roast beef, plain. None of that link crap.

You’re just as loony as your crackpot grandfather.

Todd: And, and that’s kind of how it is. Like all the characters in this movie are characatures, it’s almost like it’s almost like continuous Saturday night, live skits, you know, one right after the other, in many ways. And she goes out of there and she gets into her car.

I mean, there’s, this is it. Like, we’re just going to get full on Santa hate killing people from now on like, from the very beginning, because she gets into her car. It was really no set up or anything. She’s driving down the road, adjusting her cigarette and behind her. Out in the middle of the open is demon Santa on his sleigh with his demon.

Ah, they looked like buffaloes, but I guess they’re supposed to be reindeer.

Craig: Yeah, I think it was just there’s one Buffalo, but they refer to it as a reindeer throughout and like it’s not any. Reindeer I’ve seen. And when he’s chasing the lady, like, again, just these one-liners that are so silly, like she’s swerving all over the road.

So he can’t pass. Like, I feel like just his intention, it’s just a passer, but she’s all over the road. He says, move bitch. Yeah, the way. And then he runs her off the road and the car flips over and. She’s dead apparently. And yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s just that it’s just, let’s put Santa in these scenarios and he’ll kill people and then.

Back to the story

Todd: back

Craig: to the story.

Todd: Really main story is Nick Nicholas and, uh, his friend, Mary or Matt, Mick. I think he calls her most of the time. They both work at that deli. They get off for Christmas and they go back to his place and they sit and watch and he, he lives with his. Crazy grandfather. And one thing you get in the first 10 minutes is everybody’s somehow referring to how crazy his grandfather is.

And, uh, his grandfather was just an eccentric dude. Um, he’s got like five locks on the front door and he’s played by a very famous actor named Robert Culp, Robert Culp, spin and everything. He’s not alive.

Craig: Oh my God. He has a huge resume. Yeah, he was on, um, Greatest American hero. And I don’t know. I mean, he’s been in a bazillion things and he was familiar and there are other actors in this movie like that too.

And we’ve talked about this with other movies. There are these actors that, you know, you’ve seen, you may not be able to necessarily pinpoint where, I mean, um, the, the guy that runs the store, Mr. Green, he’s played by. Guy named Sal Rubinic, who has been on TV and some movies for decades. I mean, you’re gonna recognize him.

I, again, I couldn’t place him anywhere specifically, but I knew I had seen him in a bunch of stuff. The grandpa Robert Culp. Like is just this eccentric old man, he’s almost in a less science-y way. He’s almost like doc Brown kind of, um, made in, in the way that he looks and a little bit in the way that he acts maybe not quite as eccentric outwardly, but you’re right.

Like these got all these locks on the door and he’s got a. Bunker that, um, Nicholas didn’t even know about, but he shows him. And, um, Nicholas has played by a kid named Douglas Smith, who again has a, for a young man has a pretty impressive resume, but I didn’t recognize him from anything. Mary is played by a meal or Emily.

I’m not sure to Ravin who was on lost. I think for the duration of the show,

Todd: she was Claire.

Craig: I re I really liked her on that show.

Todd: The Hills have eyes remake and brick, and I guess more recently the TV series once upon a time she played.

Craig: Oh yeah, that’s right. So,

Todd: yeah, she’s right. Very recognizable and, and very good.

I mean, all the acting and this is pretty competent considering they’re just being goofy considering, you know? Yeah. That’s all it really is. It’s it’s like, like I said, it’s like watching Saturday night live sketch, but yeah, he, his grandpa, this is where I thought things looked a little cheap. Like I thought grandpa, all of grandpa’s little inventions in his house and even his bunker, everything looks like a set, you know, it was kind of, yeah.

Even, even the door leading the bunker was supposed to be this big metal door looked, looked like a painted metal set kind of thing. Anyway, Sandra goes back out and I guess he decides to stand and pretend to be a salvation army bell ringer for a moment. And a bomb comes up and he just slaughters the bum again in the middle of the street,

Craig: there are people wandering around and it’s like, again, it’s just, okay.

So story meet grandpa. Here’s the bunker back to Santa, you know, random scene and like, why is demon Santa ringing? The bell makes no sense. But he’s got a candy cane in his mouth, so, you know, he can pull it out. And of course, right. It’s all pointy from having been sucked on and he stabs it in the guy’s eye and throws him in a dumpster back to story.

Todd: Grandpa, grandpa says some offhanded comment about how you should be a little worried about that. Santa this year to Nicholas and Nicholas is suddenly interested in he’s like, what are you talking about? What do you mean? And grandma says, let me show you. And he goes to his closet and cranks up some safe again from the ground that the kid didn’t know about.

Pulls out this giant book called the book of Claus, which is clearly a family heirloom. And he starts going through it and telling the real story of Christmas, which is what we just described to you. But I really liked this bit because the backstory. Was told in a flashback sequence that was stop motion animation in the rank and bass Christmas special style, you know, the frosty, the snowman, or the Rudolph, the Red-Nosed reindeer.

They copped that style a bit and did the stop motion animation for this, which is really funny. Uh, I really liked that bit, actually. I figured like that’s probably where most of the money for the budget probably went

Craig: well. It was my favorite part. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. I mean, those. Christmas specials were, you know, our parents’ day, you know, is when they came out.

But they, they play every year. They were a big part of my childhood. I still watch them sometimes, you know, now. And, um, so it hasn’t yeah, nice. And the Stalgard to it, but it was also cute because though it was very much in that style. It was still kind of dark, you know, Santa was scary and at the end he breeds fire.

I just thought it was really funny. Like. We gave the basic premise, but what it is is, uh, God disguises one of his angels as an old man and this old man, um, challenges, uh, Santa, who is a demon to a contest it’s curling, which I just thought was so cute.

Todd: It’s so random.

They cut a hole of the ice. And he says, you know, whoever gets closest to the hole with gal outgoing in it wins. And Santa goes, I’ll go first. And he gets it as close as could possibly be to the edge without going over. And then the old angel just, uh, pushes his in rolls, rolls his down and knock Sanders into the hole and his stops outside the hole.

And so now Sam has gotta be. Good for a thousand years, you know, the angels should have from the beginning should have just said, Hey, you just gotta be good forever. I don’t know why he threw the thousand years. Yeah.

Craig: Thousand years seems like a long time at the time, I guess, I

Todd: guess. Oh yeah. For an immortal angel though.

I don’t know. Big surprise. I don’t know if you saw it coming from a mile away that grandpa turned out to be that angel. He sure. Looks like him and the cartoon.

Craig: Yeah. The stop motion character looked like him. So I kind of figured begin. It doesn’t make any sense. Later, later on, on when the kid finds out that his grandpa was the angel, the grandpa’s like, well, I just loved your grandmother so much.

I decided to stay around. Well, Did you meet his grandmother a thousand years ago?

I don’t know, silly, whatever you get over it. It’s not important anymore.

Todd: We also learned out that their last name is  Nicholas. Oh, it’s so goofy. So that happens. And then, um, you know, Mick comes over, gives Nick a gun, something I thought was going to be significant. Didn’t turn out to be, he talked about how he never really liked Christmas.

And his whole reason for not liking Christmas. Isn’t some traumatic story. Like for example, we get in gremlins, but it’s just like, eh, he never really got the stuff he asked for. Right. He’d ask for a transformers and he ended up getting an easy bake oven. And so she comes over and gives them what looks like a gun.

But then when he’s like, what, what are you doing? And she says, look at it and opens it up. And it’s actually a little transformer that looks like a gun and has no significance later into the plot, which I was a little disappointed by. Anyway, they hang out. And at the same time, uh, there’s a pastor at a church who is preaching to the church for a little bit about giving away money and the next scene, he’s going to a strip club.

And after he enters the strip club, Santa pulls up to the strip club and says,

Craig: boy,

Todd: And I

Craig: know

Todd: every it’s just so many jokes like this and he delivers this in his wrestler voice every single time. Right. It, he has such a Jesse the body venture vibe that I kept going back. And like, is this Jesse the body venture?

No, it’s just, just, they all have this voice. Right. So, uh, He goes into the strip club and we get all of our boobies where he just for no good reason, just cause he’s demon Santa now. And he can do whatever he wants, uh, runs around in this sequence. Very creative actually action sequence where he’s like doing flips.

I, this is a pretty elaborate strip club for being what looked like a hole in a otherwise tiny little town, but there’s a woman on a swing up above the dance floor. And he jumps up into that, which conveniently plants his face, right between her legs. And I read somewhere online that that’s his real life wife.

Craig: I met on the set. Oh. And she agreed to do the movie because she thought it was going to start Jeff Goldbloom, but it’s 10. It was bill Goldberg,

Todd: the end of a mistake there.

Craig: Yeah. But they, but they met and they fell in love and they got married and I think they’re still married. So good for that.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, what a story to tell your kids.

Right. Right.

Craig: I mean, Forever captured on film. You can share that with the children. Um, but this whole scene, it’s, it’s a wrestling scene. You know what I mean? Like this, putting his wrestling, his professional wrestling skills to work, jumping up on tables and hitting people over the back of the head, right.

Flipping around, swinging around, you know, going up against three or four other big guys. Taking them out, you know, one by one with chairs and whatever. And I say that, and it’s silly, but it’s really kind of fun to watch. I actually found it to be one of the more fun scenes in the movie.

Todd: It was, I, I completely agree.

And then there’s a bunch of goofiness, like. As soon as he falls. Okay. So his face has been in the strippers crotch for, you know, a couple seconds as he swings over and he jumps down and, uh, chases a woman off a stripper pole and he’s about to grab the pole, but then he kind of looks at it as like  and then pops off screen and immediately pops back on with, uh, some.

Spray bottle with some cleanser and a rag to wipe the pole down before he picks it up and rips it out of its socket and uses it to fight. I mean, it’s this kind of humor it’s it gets really goofy, but it was creative. I mean, like he fights some people off with the pole and then he’s kind of advancing on this one dude with the pole and the guy looks at him was kind of, uh, kind of backed up against the wall.

And Santa tosses, the pole to him. And he’s like, what? And then he kind of shoves the poll upwards into a light fixture, which electrocutes this guy. And yeah, like all of that was kind of a bit of a surprise. Like this whole sequence was really interesting. Like you said, you didn’t really know what was going to go.

There’s a lot of clever creative bits to it. And, um, maybe more so than everything else in the movie, but some of the other fight scenes in the movie were also,

Craig: yeah. And as he’s getting ready to leave, he, uh, Turns around and all this topless, strippers are kind of cowering, you know, in booths and behind, around corners and stuff.

And he pulls something out of his pocket, I think, and it looks like a rock and he blows on it and it turns into like a glowing coal and he looks at the strippers and goes naughty. And then throws the cold towards them. It like just ignites the whole, um, place. And I guess we’re left to believe that, uh, they all burned up in there, which it doesn’t come right on the heels of this scene.

But later there’s another scene in the church because the pastor manages to sneak out. And there’s another scene the next day, where. He addresses the tragedy that happened in that iniquity. And then he reads off all of the strippers names. So pray with me, if you will, for the salvation of crystal candy, she ever rain,

Dixie wrecked test tickler.

Todd: It’s such an old joke. You know, it’s such an old joke. Yeah. But you keep seeing too in between some of these scenes, like, like in a transition moment after we’ve seen Santa kill a bunch of people and go back to the story, there’s often like an outdoor scene and up in the sky, you can see Santa’s sleigh kind of go across and it’s like billowing, some smoke out the back, kind of like it’s a dirty pickup or something like that.

You know, he’s not only does he have this demonic reindeer in this odd Buffalo at the front, but also apparently has some kind of engine generating fire out the back. Yeah. Um, it has its moments. It has its little touches, I guess. And then, you know, there’s just a bunch of silly stuff like the kid goes on.

So now he’s kind of investigating barely Santa and he goes on to the gonad network online, which is the. Great. I don’t know. It’s like  and who Yahoo instead of Yahoo search.

Craig: And it looks like the, it looks like the internet from like 1985. Like it does graphics are so bad and silly and

Todd: even for 2005, that was a bit dated.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, he basically just Googles is Santa real and the computer’s like, uh, how old are you? And he’s like 16. And he’s like, no, say it. It’s not real. Sorry, parents hadn’t had that talk with you yet. Like, it’s just so stupid.

Todd: Yeah. Then there’s this odd, odd, random scene where Santa is not even in it, but I guess the implication is supposed to be that even though he might not be there, he’s already wreaking havoc with people because it’s

Craig: Christmas morning now.

Todd: Yeah. And there are these two kids in there. They’re older kids and they’re sitting down in front of their old grill, like look like their grandmother and grandpa

Craig: angel kinda has led to some surprises kill. We dismissed shit. We got. 12 and her mother’s presence. Now, chorus, go ahead, kid that, see what Santa got you.

Todd: Then they opened the presence and the presence explode and blow their heads off. And then grandma and grandpa just looked at each other and she looks forward, looks at and says, fuck. Cause ha it’s an old lady saying the F word

Craig: I’m talking about. Like, it’s just a series of. Random scenes, very loosely tied together and, and that’s, it’s fine.

I mean, that’s nothing wrong with it. It is,

Todd: but

Craig: it’s

Todd: worse than

Craig: it is. It’s more like that. Yeah. Maybe not as skillful. But in that vein? Yes. And then Sam, okay. Then, then there’s the scene in the church where he reads the strippers names and then Sansa breaks into the deli and fights. Mr. Green, who like tries to be a bad-ass, but then he, he like Michael Myers style pins, um, Mr.

Green to the wall with a menorah through the throat. Um, but then Santa sees a picture. Hanging in the deli of Mr. Green and Nicholas and the grandpa. And he obviously makes note of it. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty on the nose that he’s looking for these people, if you haven’t figured out why yet, you know, I mean, it seems pretty obvious.

And my other favorite three seconds of the movie is, um, Nicholas goes to a gas station. All you remember what he’s getting, it totally is insignificant, but he goes in and the, a guy behind the counter is standing there and it’s a big guy and he’s got his back to the camera and I’m like, Oh, this is going to be somebody.

This is going to be a cameo. And I was totally right. He turns around and it was. Tony, uh, or no. Excuse me, Tommy tiny Lister. Um, who played Debo in Friday? Yeah, well, I was,

Todd: I was thinking he played Zeus and no holds barred.

Craig: Oh, I haven’t seen that.

Todd: That’s funny. The whole Kogan movie. You remember that one? The big hall Kogan wrestling movie in the eighties, 1989.

Craig: No, I didn’t see it.

Todd: Yeah. He was Zeus. He was the guy, you know, with the weird eye who goes up against him. It’s hilarious.

Craig: And he’s in it for a second. Like it was obviously just. For the cameo, but that’s fun, whatever. And then Nick goes to Nick hears about the break in, at the deli on the radios, or he runs there and he finds Mr.

Green, who nonsensically is not dead, but wakes up just for a second long enough to say there is a Santa Claus,

Todd: which is, I guess, supposed to be funny. Cause it’s a Jewish guy. You know, so there’s a Santa Claus or whatever, and then the police come in and one of the cops is like, you know, something just isn’t kosher here.

I’m going to have to take you back to the station for questioning.

Craig: Yeah. And there’s some, his Siddiq Jews outside too. And, and he tells his partner and grabbed those Amish guys too.

Todd: That was funnier than the coacher joke. Actually. I know. Oh, okay. And so then he goes to the police station and the captain’s name is captain Tony. Cocke C a U L K, which is clearly a setup for a whole bunch of cock jokes that we’re going to get later. And, uh, for some odd reason, he’s wearing a Santa suit too.

I don’t know. Nicholas is trying to tell him all this business about what’s going on. And of course he doesn’t believe it. And he chases him out of there, um, and said, you’re just as crazy as your uncle. And then a Santa comes in immediately afterwards. And tazes him in the nuts. And he’s dead. And then as he walks out, you see that the entire police station, all of the cops have been killed by Santa as they leave.

And then I think, uh, at this point, uh, they’re driving down the street. Now we’ve got Nicholas and Mary in the same truck who have made up apparently like she was really stormed away, mad at him. A few seams earlier and now trauma, I think has brought them back together. And as they’re driving down the street and he’s, she’s, he’s telling her exactly what’s happening.

And his theory is that it, the North pole, when it turns midnight, all of this is going to be over, which would be like 7:00 PM their time, because he was given, uh, by Mr. Green, a world clock, which is also so quaint. It’s this big, ugly looking tablet thing. That’s supposed to show you the time all over the world.

So conveniently. It comes in very handy here for his calculation of 7:00 PM. Our time is going to be midnight at the North pole and he thinks that’s when the sand, his reign of terror is going to end. So he’s just like, we just got to like hide out for two and a half more hours, uh, and be done with it. At that same time, the police a police car comes up from behind.

You know, he’s like, Oh no, he’s he’s he’s he’s after me again. And the woman says, what is it with you and cock? And then as he’s pulling her over, he goes, Oh, this really sucks. And she says costs.

Oh,

Craig: yeah. It’s it’s it’s hypercube.

Todd: I believe I wrote that down. Um, how did I even write this?

Craig: I don’t know. Th this, this scene was kind of fun to like, cause they get pulled over and then we see cars. The camera is facing them. So we can see off to the side and through their rear window that it’s actually Santa Claus in a cop car.

And eventually they turn around and at first Nicholas thinks it’s cock, but, uh, it’s not any, and they realize that. And so they, they floor it and take off, but Santa starts chasing them and, um, Mary’s like, uh, my dad has a shotgun under the seat, and so they’re trying to mess around with that. And when they look back, Sans has gone, but it turns out that he’s caught up with them and he’s on the top of the truck and there’s a whole sequence, a stunt sequence with him in the bed of the truck.

And they’re swerving around on the road and Nicholas is trying to get the gun loaded and eventually he does. And, um, he shoots Santa and Santa falls over backwards. And. I think falls out of the truck. And so it seems like he’s hurt a little bit, but he gets immediately back up and then calls or whistles for his, um, Buffalo.

Yeah. Um, and then Nick and Mary go to grandpa’s. And Sansa kills a bunch of carolers in front of their house. And they locked themselves in the bunker. St. You know, in Santa is tearing down the walls and the doors to get to them or whatever. They sneak out the back and grandpa puts them on the two kids on snowmobiles, but they can’t get them going, or Mary can’t get hers going or something.

And so Santa shows up and grandpa and Santa kind of have the. You know, saloon showdown in the snowy alley a little bit. And this is where we officially find out that grandpa was the angel. Um, you know, it’s a lot of that. I haven’t seen you in a long time. You look worse for the

Todd: ware. Yeah. And then, and it seems like they’re going to have this big show down, but Santa does a whistle and his Buffalo slash reindeer with their sleigh.

Come out of nowhere from behind grandpa and he spins around and it runs him over. And then San Diego

Craig: grandpa got run over by a rain gear. Uh,

Todd: God. And so the kids, uh, they, they both jumped on the one snow boom wheel that will start and they take off and then there’s just a high pursuit and this goes on for way too long.

But anyway, Santa is in pursuit of them and he’s on his sleigh kind of half in the air, half, not sometimes they’re cutting through the wilderness. And through town, SANAS throwing exploding presence at the there’s a, they pass through a bunch of, um, skeet shooters that are out there shooting, um, and, and scare them and go through that.

Craig: When he goes through town, he. Kind of Rams, the minister, who is in a Santa suit and the minister kind of flips over the front of the sled and, and sits in the sled and then Santa knocks him out. And I knew that was going to be significant, but I couldn’t figure out why. And I mean, it’s just for convenience sake at the end, but he’s got that other like unconscious guy.

In the Santa suit and they’re with him for the rest of the movie. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s just a setup for the end, but it’s a weird setup because it happens I’ll know a good 10 minutes or so before the end. So you’re like, what the heck? Yeah, whatever the kids break into a school, they find a Nutcracker that the grandpa put in Nicholas’s bag.

And then my next note is Santa loses the jacket, which was another. One of my favorite parts of the movie. Cause you know, this, this guy, the wrestler bill Goldberg, he takes off his Santa’s coat and the guy’s just ripped. Like he’s huge. His arms are like the size of my waist and I mean, That was cool.

Todd: Well, the casting was good, right? He’s totally convincing as a demon. Santa’s a hundred percent. He looks the part. No question, no question. He can say and do the things that he does, but then there’s a more goofiness. Like they go in the fricking library of this. School and they’re hiding. And Santa has a little smoke on that.

Looks like an ornament that he chucks over the stacks. And I think more or less pretending not to notice them. Now, all of a sudden he’s, uh, pulls a book off a stack right on the other side, and it’s the Christmas Carol. And he opens it up and looks at it and says, wow. Wow. Christmas shirt can scare the Dickens out of people.

Uh, at which point, the smoke overwhelms these two and they run off and he continues to chase them through the school. It’s like, Oh my God.

Craig: And they end up in the school ice rink.

Todd: Yes. Clearly the school, the school ice rink. Well, I don’t know this is what this place is supposed to be way up North in Canada.

It might work, but this is then Rue.

Craig: I know.

Todd: But it’s gotta be right. It’s got, it’s got to end up here. Cause we got to come to the foot, the big curling finale. Right.

Craig: You know, they they’re they’re they uh, are being chased by Santa. Like as they’re going out of, I don’t know, at some point when they’re being pursued, Santa’s either, either throws.

Cole at them, it looked like he shot fire out of his mouth. I think

Todd: that’s exactly what happens. He breathed fire out of his mouth. It was like a fireball that went at them. Yeah. Weird,

Craig: weird. Um, so they end up at the ice rink where they decided to take a little romantic break

Todd: suddenly just to holding off for a while while they have their moment.

Craig: And they’re just sitting there talking and Nicholas, like, I can’t believe we’re being hunted by Santa all F and people and they start to kiss. And then of course, Santa shows up on a Zamboni. I mean, come on. I mean, if you’re going to shoot on an ice rink, you got to put Santa on a Zander. It’s it’s pretty great.

And, um,

Todd: And then grandpa, this part, I didn’t understand,

Craig: but angel angel grandpa shows up

Todd: this part. I didn’t understand. Cause angel grandpa, you know, materializes back into air and, and makes a comment to him about, I thought, you know, you gave up your mortality when you went through that, uh, when you, when you hooked up with that earth woman and he said, well, things have started coming back to me lately.

So does that mean that after his wife died, he got his mortgage. Immortality back. And that’s why when he got run over, he could just resurrect.

Craig: Oh, who knows? Like,

Todd: I’m not really, I don’t need them curious. None of that made sense to me, but anyway. Yeah. So, uh, they have their show down again and, and grandpa.

Um, suggest that they have the same deal. Again, only this time it’s going to be for eternity. If he wins the curling contest, then Santa will forever be good. A whole to hell in the ice rank is formed and they start out their curling competition. And this time. Grandpa goes first and gets it right up to the edge of the hole and then Santa sheets by picking up grandpa and just sliding him straight into the hole, too, which the kids are upset by.

And as soon as Santa turns on them, grandpa had, had left a tag on that, um, Nutcracker saying some gifts are more useful or something, or the greatest gift. The good, the gifts worth giving are the ones that are useful or something. And he says that to him before he starts the curling. And so that’s the clue to Nicholas that when Santa is suddenly coming towards him to whip the Nutcracker out of his backpack, and when he pulls the back of the Nutcracker, it shoots a chest nut.

Is that does this, the play on words that supposed to be significant into SANAS chest, which I guess is magical or something. And Santa falls backwards, presumably defeated.

Craig: Well, I mean, it incapacitates him for a second and

Todd: he’s dead.

Craig: Yeah. And you know, the, the whole time zone thing had come into play.

Like Nick’s like it’s after seven, you have no powers anymore. And then Santa does this whole. Spiel about time zones and Mary’s like, Oh, he’s scary yet educational, like just the silliest lines. But so he’s incapacitated. They pull grandpa out of the hell hole. Then Santa’s escapes on the Zamboni. Like he bursts through the wall and goes, and grandpa’s like, he’s bluffing.

He’s powerless now. And so they all start chasing after him. But for some reason, grandpa can’t leave the ice rink. There’s like a gears field or something unexplained.

Todd: I don’t know that made no sense. Oh God, I

Craig: guess he just lives there now. I don’t know.

Todd: I’ll always be with you son disappears.

Craig: So weird. So, and Nicholas.

Go back to the firing range that they had driven through before. And, you know, it’s all these guys with guns and they’re like, uh, how’d you like to be able to hang a stuffed flying reindeer over your mantle or whatever. And there’s, you know, this native American man smoking a cigarette and also docking through his.

Vocalized or thing so dumb. Um, but so, uh, Mary, I think whistles and the, the, the slay starts coming. Everybody starts shooting at him, but nothing happens until Mary’s dad shows up and it’s been established earlier that Mary’s dad is kind of this crazy Hunter, like he hunts and dangered animals and stuff.

He shows up and shoots the Buffalo with. A bazooka and the whole, the whole sled explodes and like meet like lands all around them and everything seems like it’s okay. Like it’s over. Uh, and you see, Santa has been impaled on a flagpole. Oh, no,

Todd: this is, this is not Santa. Actually. This is the priest priest,

Craig: right?

That was the whole setup he had to be. He had to be on the sled so that when it got blown up, there would be this red herring that, that everybody, but Mary and Nicholas think is Santa, but Mary and Nicholas know that it’s not. And Nicholas has something like, I feel like my adventures are just beginning like that.

Like

Todd: I was like, Ugh. Don’t tell me that we’re trying to set this up for a sequel.

Craig: Oh, I know. Right. Uh, and, and so he, I guess Santa had had. Somehow gotten the book of Claus, but now it’s on the ground and Nicholas picks it up again. Like this is going to be, you know, is Santa’s hunting manual or something  they ha they share a romantic kiss.

And then the last scene is Santa’s in full biker garb, you know, looking. Like a bad-ass biker at the airport and he’s trying to buy a ticket to the North pole and the counter lady’s like, do you have any bags? And he picks up his big red Santa’s sack on the

Todd: counter.

Craig: He goes and sits down between two average size people.

And he’s just this huge hulking man just. Sitting there kind of standing around and, um, I feel like he breaks the fourth wall and says his wrestling tagline to the camera. And then. Then that’s, that’s it, that’s the movie,

Todd: you know, I mean, it is what it is, and this is just that kind of movie. It’s not what I was expecting.

You know, we do a horror podcast, even, even though we do a lot of horror comedy, we kind of want to do horror

Craig: more.

Todd: Yeah. You know, we like our horror comedies to be heavy on horror. I didn’t really feel like this was that heavy on horror just because it was so, so dumb. But, you know, it had the horror elements of a demonic Santa running around killing people.

It had great, great action sequences for Mo you know, half of them were great. Some of them just went on too long. Not a lot of it made sense. So it’s the kind of movie where you just hang your discernment at the door. And if you’re in the mood for a bunch of goofy, dumb ass, one-liners a plot that you don’t even need to follow because it makes no sense characters that are just characatures so that you can just plow through a bunch of action scenes and watch a lot of Gores.

A lot of blood Gore, the 41 body count in this movie is 41. Then, yeah. I mean, it’s just, it’s just a goofy, just a big, dumb, goofy movie. And, uh, I’m, I’m not opposed to that at all. I mean, it was fine for what it was. Uh, so, you know, if that’s what you’re in for, that’s what you’re looking for. I I’d recommend it to you, I guess.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s a popcorn movie. It’s a drive-in movie. It’s a snuggle up with your loved one on Christmas Eve, just for some, you know, stupid fun. Oh,

Todd: I am sure. This is a tradition for a lot of people. I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who just love this movie and probably put it on every year and get a real kick out of it.

And I don’t blame them, you know? It’s.

Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s not my cup of tea. I didn’t really like it. I thought it was pretty stupid. But then again, there have been movies that I’ve really liked that other people have thought are really stupid. So it’s just one it’s I think it’s kind of hit or miss, you know, if you’re in the mood for it and you know what you’re getting into, and that’s what you’re looking for.

I think you’re going to. Get it in spades. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I just thought it was okay. Not bad. Fun. And even though to me not to be fair. When we watch these movies, you know, I take a bunch of notes and I’m going back and forth between the movie and I MDB and writing down the actors names. And, you know, so I guess my point is like, I’m focused on the analytical part of it, and that’s not what this movie,

Todd: you know, this,

Craig: this is not a movie that you want to try to think about,

Todd: you know,

Craig: just, just put it on and maybe.

Halfway pay attention. And it’s only an hour and 15 minutes long. Um, yeah, and I think it could be fun. It could be fun in the right environment

Todd: and it’s not, I mean, it’s not scary. It’s it’s maybe IMDBs description is very apropos, you know, uh, it’s a comedy fantasy it’s super bloody and it has this kind of supernatural element to it.

But as far as considering it a horror movie, if you define a horror movies, a movie that has some level of tension or scare in it, this isn’t that. It’s definitely not that

Craig: well. And if it were something that like, you know, when I was an adolescent early teenage boy, if it was something that I had, you know, gone to the video store and picked up with my cousins, we had sat around and watched it together.

I probably wouldn’t probably would have been, we probably would have been quoting it for days, you know, but. I’m old now.

What’s wrong with

Todd: us. All right. Well, anyway, thank you so much for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with the friends. If you enjoy this movie. Or you want to see some of the other movies that we’ve reviewed. You can find us anywhere online by Googling two guys and a chainsaw.

They have a website, two guys that read 40 matt.com where you can leave a message for us on Facebook as well. Just send us a message to any of those ways to let us know what you brought to this movie, to let us know and requests. You might have, we still have at least a couple more weeks of holiday horror movies to bring to you this year till we ring in 2021.

Craig: Thank God. Oh

Todd: God. Yeah. 2021 can’t come soon enough. Until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with two guys and a chainsaw.

We certainly put this off as long as we could, and now we’re kind of wondering why. Both of us learned that our memories of this notorious Santa slasher did not do it justice. We even forgot that Linnea Quigley had a role. Come listen to our take on one of horror’s most infamous films.

Silent Night Deadly Night (1984)

Episode 237, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: hello and

Todd: welcome to another episode of two guys and chainsaws

Craig: I’ve

Todd: taught. And I’m Craig, while we are now entering the Christmas season. Are we not Craig?

Craig: Yes. Ho, ho, ho. I know, right? It just seems so exciting this year, even though who knows how, what Christmas is going to be like this year, everything is so weird this year, but it feels nice to have something

Todd: to hold on.

Like, I

Craig: guess, you know, usually. In our house. Uh, we hold off decorating for Christmas until, uh, after Thanksgiving this year, like two days after Halloween, Christmas, everywhere.

Todd: We

Craig: just, we, we need a little bit of joy and cheer and we’ve had our Christmas decorations up for a little while. And. Yeah, it, it helps a little bit,

Todd: there’s that feeling right? That this is like 2020, and it’s just the year. And somehow when everything turns over to 2021, there’s going to be some massive change.

So it was just like,

Craig: let’s hope knock on wood.

Todd: I sure. On Christmas as fast as possible so that we can get to 2021, hopefully be a little bit better.

Craig: I don’t know. You know, our, our Christmas tree may just stay up until.

Todd: We’re just going

Craig: to hang on to that Christmas hope until things start to look up and hopefully that will,

Todd: until we can step outside our front doors again.

Oh man. Well, speaking of holiday horrors, we have a nice little, um, batch of horror films, the Christmas themed ready for you this month. And uh, this year we decided that we might as well get around to, I don’t know, we’ve had this podcast. Since 2016, is that right? 2015, uh, 15. We’ve been doing this podcast for at least five years and, uh, coming up on two, 250 episodes very shortly.

And we’ve never done silent night, deadly night, probably one of the most notorious of the holiday theme. Christmas movies came out in 1984 and it is almost quaint to imagine. The level of controversy that this stupid movie made when it came out, apparently the, the trailers for this movie. And if you go onto YouTube, you can see some pretty interesting trailers.

The original trailers for this movie really emphasize the fact that, Hey, guess what? This is a killer Santa. It was the night before Christmas is, uh, being spoken in the foreground and in the visuals, you’re seeing a clearly a person in a Santa suit, pulling out a gun and shooting somebody and. Using a bow and arrow and shooting somebody and pulling out a knife and stabbing somebody and picking an ax up off the wall and axing somebody that didn’t apparently go down too well with the parents who were watching television around prime time with their kids who would have known.

So, uh, but yeah, such a controversy that the movie was released for about 10 days in the theaters, probably about 398 screens across the us. And it was pulled after that. The ads were pulled off of TV and the actual movie was taken out of the theaters. I found when I was looking this up, Tri-Star Columbia was the one that put out this film.

And at the time it was owned by Coca Cola. Coca Cola is well-known for, I mean, they practically invented the modern day image of Santa Claus. And so it’s a little funny, a little ironic, right. That that would be the company. Ultimately putting out this thing. And so when the controversy started to stew, I’m sure there was a little bit of pressure from way up high.

Hey, don’t screw up the holiday thing we have going with our advertising and let’s just get this movie out of theaters. However nightmare on Elm street, the very first one came out the very same time this did now. He wasn’t released in quite as many theaters, but this within its first weekend out, grossed it.

Made 2.5 million on about a $750,000 budget before it was pulled. And, uh, I think Tristar maintains right now that if it were allowed to stay in the theaters, it would have grossed over $20 million. That’s their estimate, right. Kind of a shame, but you know, the level of controversy that the movie generated you really can’t.

By that, I guess, unfortunately they couldn’t take too much advantage of it, but nowadays it’s a called classic. It got finally got released in the UK in 2009. I believe it was released into theaters a year later with a more muted advertising campaign in 1985, it’s been available on video, various forms.

Mostly cut a little bit. Some of the footage has been cut from the film initially, just because they were worried it would get an X rating. And a, the movie version that we saw has that most of that, uh, cut footage edited back in, although the prints are a little lousy and we’re not able to be. Cleaned up as well.

They were not stored very well. So you can see, and that is handy for us. You can actually see which of the footage was originally cut from the movie and reinserted, because there’s a clear difference in the visual quality of the picture. And if you get any of these DVD or Blu-ray releases, that’s what you’re going to get.

Yeah. Happy to really talk about it this year, this year, because actually I had never seen it before.

Craig: Are you serious?

Todd: Can you believe it? I mean, seriously, like passing this movie on the video store shelves. The box arts stands out like it like anything, you know, you always look at it. Yeah. Killer Santa. Is this arm with an ax kind of hanging outside of a chimney, like Santa is going down the chimney with an ax and notorious film, even when we were kids.

And I know we never actually ended up reading it and watching it. And I have no idea why.

Craig: You, you are so full of shit because we have, I believe you, now that you’re saying that you’ve never seen it before, but I’m saying you’re full of shit because we have talked about this movie several times, like you and I have talked about this.

Oh, thank you. And I privately off Mike or whatever have talked about this movie and how bad it is and how we don’t want to do it. Cause it’s so bad. Oh. And you’ve never seen, Oh, whatever. God.

Todd: Nope, no, you’re right. I mean, let me, let me clarify. I don’t mean I’ve never seen it. What I mean is I’ve seen it come up on cable before.

And I’ve seen little bits and pieces and I’ve started to watch it and I’ve gotten bored with it. And I turned it off. I never sat down and watched a movie from like let’s watch silent night, deadly night and sat down and watch the movie from

Craig: start to finish

Todd: only a little bits and snippets that I’d seen over the years.

Convinced me this film was not worth watching because I never motivated to sit down and watch it for more than a few scenes.

Craig: Okay. Well, I don’t know. You know, I have seen it several times, but. It’s been a really, really long time. Like, honestly, I don’t know when the last time I saw it was, but I’m guessing maybe when I was a teenager, but I was intrigued by it one, because like you said, and like we’ve said a bazillion times.

As kids going to the video store, perusing all the box art. Yeah. This one stood out. I mean, it’s great box art with, Santa’s almost fully submerged into a chimney, but you see a bloody ax, you know, that he’s holding, you know, Christmas kids, scary movies, you know, it was, it appealed very much to me. Plus I think that.

In 1984, I was five years old. So I surely don’t remember that when it was happening, but I knew how controversial it had been. And I, and I think that was appealing too. I wanted to know what all the fuss was about. You talked about the production history. Maybe this is just my memory. This, this could not be factually accurate, but when I think of Tristar, when I think of the movies that Tristar did.

In the eighties, it was mostly like family movies and comedies and romantic comedies. It just seems like a really strange studio to have put out this weird. Slasher movie. Um, and maybe that had something to do with it. And, and when, okay, so they, this whole coalition of like citizens against madness in movies or something like that,

Todd: the cam

Craig: the equivalent of like the million moms movement now, or whatever, you know, people who get incensed about things and demand that they be pulled in, obviously.

In 1985 studios and businesses took that more seriously, I think, than they take it today. I don’t know. I don’t know the behind that, but anyway. They did pull it. And not only did they pull it, but they pulled everything. They pulled the distribution rights. So nobody else could distribute it. I mean, may have been a driving force in saying, I don’t want to do this.

It’s stupid. It’s a bad movie. I don’t want to talk about it. I hadn’t seen it in so long and I was not looking forward to watching it. And it felt like a chore. And I sat down to watch it yesterday. It’s not as bad as I remembered it being, you know, it’s not that bad. We’ve seen worse. We’ve seen much worse, actually.

It’s not a good movie. Um, and there are definitely things about it that I will be critical of, but it’s not as bad as I remembered. And frankly, aside from the fact that it’s a killer Santa’s, which had already been done. Tales from the crypt had done it in the seventies, Christmas evil. We did a couple years ago, almost entirely the same premise had come out four years earlier.

Nobody had paid any attention or objected just for whatever reason. And I guess it was the trailer, which I kind of get, you know, I kind of get, if I were a parent of a young kid, I wouldn’t want them to see. Killer Santa’s trailers around the Christmas season. I, I get that, but it just seems like an overreaction when ultimately it’s just a stupid slasher movie.

And the only thing that really separates it from any other slasher movie. Is that the guy wears a Santa suit. I mean, that’s it. So I kind of don’t understand what all the fuss was about, but here we are.

Todd: Well, I mean, our listeners, especially the ones who are not as old as we are, you know, have to remember, of course it was a bit of a different time.

And I don’t mean we were more prudish in the eighties. I just mean the media landscape was a bit different. Slasher movies really kind of started becoming popular around this time. And so they were being churned out. By the dozens and they were all making mad money. And so there were even more of them coming out and this was disturbing people, you know, it was disturbing parents.

Our kids just want to go to the movies and they just want to see people get cut up. And so it was all over the media, all these talk show hosts like Oprah Winfrey and Phil Donahue and stuff. Phil Donahue apparently devoted a whole episode. Of his program or an hour of his program to talking about this movie and gene Siskel and Ebert got on TV and read off a list of the people involved in the production, this movie and said, shame on you.

Uh, they were really, really critical. Yeah. The idea behind this film and said it was utter garbage and how dare they spoil the sacredness of, of Santa? I think Cisco said what’s up. What’s next, like a rabbit Easter bunny quaint when you hear about it, but no, because I’m like, yeah, hell yeah. Bring me the rabbit Easter buddy movie.

That’s true. We’ve been

Craig: looking for years.

Todd: We’ve. If you’ve know of one of these and you had an April, but then again, you know, there was a time when we were just watching TV and there were four channels. And so that’s all kids were watching. They didn’t have a thousand different possibilities, pulling them in all these different directions or the ability to change a bunch of different cable channels or YouTube and whatnot.

And so they were likely. To see this on TV,

Craig: right? You couldn’t skip the commercials back in those days, kids

Todd: chord around them, but you could not skip them live. So anyway, here we are. And there’ve been a lot of killer Santa movies since then. Some good, some bad. I want to know before we get into this and we will get into the movie, but Craig, I just want to ask you, like you said earlier, Christmas evil.

And this film, so similar in premise, which of them at the end of the day, do you feel like was the better mood?

Craig: I think it was even though it’s been years, I think since we did Christmas evil and I’ve only seen it that one time, I liked it better. I just think it was a more competent movie.

Todd: Me too. We were both surprised by that movie.

Yeah. We were both.

Craig: We were surprised. I mean, they are, they’re very similar, you know, an unhinged person. I don’t remember what it was that triggered the guy in Christmas evil. But what I do remember about Christmas evil is that even the villain. Was somewhat sympathetic. Yeah. Honestly, I feel the same way about this movie.

Okay. So, so the, the person, the kid, the boy that ends up being the killer, Santa’s obviously, you know, the villain of the movie really?

Todd: He’s the victim.

Craig: He, the victim. Yeah. He’s a victim. He’s messed up and really the mother superior character. Is more villainous in some ways, in addition to

Todd: the trauma nurse ratchet.

Craig: Yeah. In addition to the trauma, that the main character experiences, when he’s a child, he ends up in an orphanage and run by these Catholic nuns and the mother superiors methods for disciplining him and trying to condition him, I think ended up doing just as much, if not more harm as the initial trauma, which is what leads him to his murderous acts.

Now, when the movie came out, they weren’t, they didn’t anticipate. This backlash because of the Christmas tie-in or because of the Santa tie-in they didn’t think that was going to be an issue. They were concerned about their portrayal of the Catholic church and they thought that that would cause waves.

And it’s funny because I grew up Catholic. I still consider myself Catholic, even though I, I consider myself a Catholic, a cafeteria Catholic, you know, I kind of pick and choose the things that I like. And there are certainly things that I don’t like obviously, but, uh, I went to Catholic school. My dad went to Catholic school and his whole family, and he comes from a big Catholic family.

And when I went to Catholic school, we didn’t have any nuns. It was lay people who were the teachers and it was lovely. It was a lovely experience. I got a great education, small class sizes, good food. It was a lovely experience. But when my dad was going to Catholic school, the nuns were the teachers and my dad doesn’t have bad things to say about it.

He has positive things to say about the experience. He’s grateful for the experience, but the nuns were bad asses. Like, like they would need it’s true. Huh?

Todd: Yeah. Everything I’ve seen in the movies. It’s true.

Craig: It’s true that they hit them and like, they were just really super, super stern. Like my dad, one of my dad’s favorite stories is they would never allow them to go to the bathroom and because my.

Because my dad was, he was the second oldest in a family of a eight or nine. Oh gosh. I don’t remember. Some of them have passed away at this point, so it’s hard to count, but, uh, he had a bunch of sisters all younger than him. And they wouldn’t let them go to the bathroom. And so his sisters would pee themselves and then they would make my dad and his older brother clean it up.

Todd: That’s pretty bad ass.

Craig: So, you know, some of these depictions of Catholic school where, you know, I believe that the Catholic. You know, these nuns, they had good intentions. I believe they did, but things were very, things were different than, um, and so some of these depictions of corporal punishment and very stern nuns, you know, not entirely untrue.

Todd: Wow. Well, let’s talk about the trauma, this kid endures just for a second real quick, comparing this to Christmas. Evil is it’s exactly the opposite in Christmas evil, the guy was obsessed with Christmas and he was obsessed with spreading Christmas cheer in this movie. The main character is traumatized by Christmas and he’s afraid of it, particularly Santa Claus, because his family is in a car driving one Christmas across the country.

Uh, to visit the relatives, which is so familiar to us, this is what we did every year. Cause we always lived very far away from my relatives. So I mean, all of that is, is nice. There’s Christmas music playing on the radio. Uh, and they’re going to the Utah mental facility to visit grandpa and it’s Billy.

And, uh, his mom and dad, Sammy and Sally, Billy Sammy, Sally, the baby’s name is Ricky. So cute. These names. Anyway, they arrive at the mental institution. They go inside and grandpa’s sitting there in a chair, just staring straight forward eyes open, but. Pretty much catatonic, right? The parents in a great parental move, I guess, decide to go in the back and discuss things with the doctor and say, Oh, Billy, you can just stay here and wait with, uh, catatonic grandpa.

Don’t worry. Don’t worry. Grandpa’s not going to hurt you, which were sinister words. When I saw, I was like, Oh great. As soon as they leave the room, as though this were a cartoon, grandpas suddenly comes to life.

Craig: Nobody you scared

she’ll be Christmas.

Todd: you better watch out tonight because you know, Santa’s only brings toys and presents to the good boys and girls, but for the bad boys and girls, he punishes them. So if you see Santa Claus coming by tonight, you’d better run for your life,

Craig: which ends up actually being very good advice.

Todd: Yeah, actually, it was pretty smart.

Yeah. Yeah. But

Craig: that scene, I mean, it’s, it’s so heavy handed, like the grandpa,

Todd: you

Craig: know, he’s so sinister. For no apparent reason, like what is his problem? Like what asshole?

Todd: Right? Why did he wake up from his catatonic state to scare the hell out of his grandson? Then as soon as the parents come back in the room, he’s steering forward.

Again,

Craig: it seemed to be implied that he was faking it. Like, like as soon as they leave. He is fine. And as soon as they come back, then he goes right back to the Canada, catatonic, whatever. Plus I think it’s hilarious that they’ve clicked clearly driven a long way to visit and they stay for five seconds.

Todd: Okay.

Craig: Yeah. And they get back in the car to go home and Billy is scared and he says, you know, he says what his grandpa told him and the mom is mad and she says something mean about the grandpa. And Billy says, by the way, the kid that plays young, Billy is adorable. Like he’s so cute.

Todd: It is. And he’s a great actor too.

Craig: Yeah, he’s a good guy. Child actor, but the mom says something mean about the grandpa. And he says, mommy, you shouldn’t have said that saying mean things about old people is not a Santa Claus will punish you. And then we cut to it again. Yeah. Station where there’s, you know, a guy in a Santa suit coming in and going up to the counter and there’s a little bit of banter, but then Santa’s pulls up a gun and says, he’s holding up the store.

And the, the clerk. Who’s a middle-aged gentleman goes for a gun. And so Santa just shoots him down, you know, shoots him like three or four times and steals the money and it ends up being like $30 or something like that. Yeah. And then we cut back to the family and we see the same Santa landed on the road.

Like his car is just stopped in the middle of the road and he’s out, waving them down and the parents are like, Oh, let’s wake up, Billy. Uh, he’ll get to see Santa after all. And Billy’s like, no, no, don’t stop. I don’t want to see him. But they, they, they stop and the Santa comes up and the dad asks if he’s having car trouble or something.

And, um, San is like, no, that’s not why I stopped you. And he pulls out his gun and the dad slams the car in reverse and floors, the gas pedal and, and they, they go in reverse, but Santa shoots and apparently shoots the dad. And so the car crashes in a ditch. So once the car crashes, Billy. As instructed by his grandfather gets out and runs away and runs to the side of the road.

And the dad falls out of the car dead. The mom is screaming. The Santa is menacing her and he gets her down on the ground in the street and rips, open her blouse to show her boobs. Honestly, part of the reason that I hated this movie and that I didn’t want to watch it is because as I remembered it, having only seen it, you know, Decades ago.

I thought that the Santa raped the mom. I had that in my mind and that the kids saw it watching it again now. No, that doesn’t happen just somewhere in my mind. It almost does, but. And traumatic nonetheless, but we’ve talked about this many times. I just can’t handle sexual violence. Yeah. The memory of that, even though it was a false memory has kept me away from this movie for decades, but he doesn’t, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s menacing and, and certainly disturbing for the kid and he cuts the mom’s throat and, and the kid witnesses, all of this.

From the side of the road and the Santa comes looking for him, obviously doesn’t find him, but a very traumatic experience, nonetheless. And then we cut to like four or five years later where he and his little brother are now in an orphanage. I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s traumatic. That would screw a person up.

Todd: Oh, I totally get it too. And I felt really bad for the kid. And as a parent of a son about that age, well, a little younger than that age. Yeah. I’m yeah. Acutely aware of the things that bother him. And he takes everything at face value. Right? My, my wife watched an episode of star Trek recently with a parasite in it and he happened to be watching it too.

We’re looking over the shoulder and they take this parasite out of this guy. And I don’t know, you know, it’s like TV, so it’s not that bad, but probably some. Alien looking thing that comes out and the kid will not stop talking about parasites. And can I get a parasite in me? You know, it’s cute. I mean, it’s actually kind of cute, but also, you know, some you kind of have to deal with now, like, don’t worry kids.

You’re not going to have a giant parasite that looks like an alien inside of you ever, you know, that you have to worry about. Yeah, I could see that happening. And then he gets to be older and he’s in this orphanage, like you said, With his brother who was a baby at the time. Right. And, uh, he’s what, 10 years old or something.

And, uh, my gosh, you’re right. These people are horrible. It’s December, 1974, and this is the worst mother superior ever. Billy’s in class drawing. Something for Christmas, everybody’s supposed to draw something. And the teacher of the class of the younger nuns says, go ahead, Billy, put your drawing up on the board.

And when he puts it up, all the kids are shocked and the teacher says, you need to go to mother superior right now and explain yourself. And when he shows the drawing, it’s a Santa that’s been stabbed multiple times in a reindeer’s head. Not unlike a lot of the drugs I used to draw when I was a kid.

Craig: That’s what I was thinking like is my niece. Or nephews showed me that I’d be like, Oh my God, that is awesome. You are so creative.

Todd: Right. I know the mother superior, you know, treats us exactly the wrong way now they should know. And they do know what happened to this kid.

Craig: Yeah. But the mother superior is convinced that he doesn’t remember, but he does remember because he has nightmares about it.

He has flash backs to it all the time,

Todd: drawing pictures of it. Come on.

Craig: The mother superior. I’ll handle this. And gosh, I don’t, there’s another nun, sister, Margaret. Who’s nice to Billy, but the mother superior is like, I’ll handle it. And so she locks him in his room and all the other kids are outside playing and the nice nun come Zen is like, it’s okay, Billy, you know, you should go play with the other kids.

And he’s like, no, I can’t. Because, you know, mother superior said he couldn’t, she’s like, no, it’s fine. I think that that would be what’s best for you is to play with the other kids. So she goes out ahead of him and he comes out after. And then he hears, this is funny. The other day I went to iTunes and was looking at our reviews and one of the positive reviews was like, these guys are, are really cool.

And it’s like friends talking and they don’t feel the need to drop F bombs all the time.

And so it made me, it made me very self-conscious of how often I. Do that. So Billy goes out and here is definite screwing noises and, uh,

yeah, out in the hall, uh, by these noises and he ends up looking in a keyhole and he sees these. I guess, you know, like adolescent orphans, I guess, I guess

Todd: they’re unlike 10 mattresses, by the way. I don’t know. You need to stack them all up in the middle of the room or what, but I

Craig: dunno, the mother superior catches him and he runs outside and then the mother spirit comes out and she’s like, What did you see?

And he’s like nothing. And she was like, well, do you know what they were doing? He’s like, no good. What they were doing was something very, very naughty. They thought they could do it without being caught. But when we do something naughty, We are always caught and then we are punished. Punishment is absolute.

Punishment is necessary. Punishment is good. Yes, mother superior. And now I’m going to punish you because you were not because I told you not to come out of your room. And it just made me so mad because that nice nun is SA is standing right there. And she had said something initially, but then when the mother superior is like, you have to be punished that.

Lady needed to jump in and be like, I told him he could come out, the kids didn’t do anything wrong.

Todd: What’s wrong with these people? And my God, I mean, this mother superior, I was pissed. She is totally traumatizing this boy. And he goes into the room and he curls up in a ball in the corner. And he’s shaking and he’s like, I’m not naughty.

I didn’t mean to be naughty. Please don’t punish me. And you know, she’s just whipped him with a belt. It’s horrible. So it, and he ends up tied. She ties into a bed at one point. I mean, it was so. Convincing to me that I could buy whatever Billy wanted to do in the future in the same way. And I, and I’m, I’m gonna come back and compare it to Christmas evil.

I felt Christmas evil. It wasn’t the best movie in the world, but as a character study and as a pretty convincing portrayal of showing how this grown man might actually go out and start murdering people because of some childhood trauma, I thought this movie in a simpler way, Not as sophisticated, a way maybe more exploitative way did the same thing.

I didn’t excuse him for murdering people as he got older, but I definitely was totally 100% convinced of his character arc. For that I surprisingly applaud the filmmaker. And honestly, I thought it was well shot too. I mean the whole movie, I got to mention it, Charles E sillier jr. Um, he’s a director of this movie and, um, he started out doing documentaries and he’s pretty well known as a guy who pioneered the idea of doing audience testing on films.

So for better, for worse, we’ve more or less got this guy to thank for it. He would test his films on audiences and make adjustments and he ended up making a ton of money. Based on that. He did a lot of TV movies, documentaries. This was one of the few movies he actually directed, he mostly produced, but, uh, he was uncomfortable actually with the Gore scenes and the scenes of violence.

And so there was actually, I think his editor came in and directed most of those, but he did a very good job. I think the cinematography in this movie is quite good. The cutting and the editing here is really interesting because as we get later on in the film, With a more adult, Billy, who’s actually just more like 18, but looks like he’s 28.

Yeah. When we get to him, we get flashbacks to these moments and they come in just the right moment and you can see directly how his childhood trauma is being. Uh, brought back to his mind by the events that are happening around him. And I was actually really impressed with the cinematography of the stone.

Craig: I don’t know. It seemed fine to me. It didn’t stand out to me as being like, Oh wow, that’s interesting. But you know, totally competent, not. Not bad. I wanted to mention that the, the woman who plays mother superior is actually a very prolific French actress. And she apparently had done a lot on stage in Europe and she also has a huge resume.

I mean, if you look at her IMDV page, she’s been in a million things. She had been in a couple of things I had seen. But the thing that I remembered her from, she was in one episode of friends, it was the episode where Chandler kissed one of Joey’s sisters and couldn’t remember which one it was. And then he went to dinner and she at Joey’s house and, and this woman played Joey’s grandmother.

And it was a really funny scene. Like I, I vividly remember it. But she’s good in this movie. And she’s so stern. She plays the stern mother superior so well, she is very easy to hate, honestly, throughout the movie, I was waiting for her to get her comeuppance, but we’ll talk about that more when we get there,

Todd: I was pleased to see that she was in phantasmagoria.

The Sierra game from like their mid nineties. So any of our, my fellow adventure game nerds out there who happened to be listening, uh, there’s a little interesting bit of trivia there for you too.

Craig: Her IMDV bio says, she’s the actress who, you know, you recognize, but you don’t know from what, like, that’s literally what her

Todd: bios, right.

Craig: But after she ties him to the bed, she also forces him to sit on Santa’s lap and, and in a very, um, satisfying scene, he punches the notes and gives them a bloody nose. And then runs away and cowers in the corner, like you said, but like you said, you could totally understand why not that you approve of it, but why.

He would behave in the way he behaves later, if you were, and I’m sure in real life, there are people who have had traumatic Christmases. And that must be very hard because you can’t escape it. The rest of, I was going to say the rest of the world, but I’m not that worldly. The rest of America celebrates.

Christmas every year, the imagery is everywhere. You cannot escape it. And if that is traumatic for you, that must be very difficult. I have sincere empathy for people who lose people tragically on Christmas or, or any other holiday or any other notable, you know, birthdays or whatever. And. The anniversary of that is shoved in your face every year.

It’s, it’s sad, really? And, and I do feel bad for this kid, but it cuts to 10 years later. So now Billy’s 18 and it’s a sister Margaret talking to this store owner, mr. Sims toy store owner. And he’s played by a man named Britt leech, who is another man. You definitely will immediately recognize I looked him up.

He was in the great outdoors. He was the guy that had been struck by lightning 66 times. Um, hilarious. He was also in weird science. He was on, he was on the TV series mash, which of course was a huge hit he’s super, super familiar and good and endearing. I liked him. Yeah.

Todd: He was a good, yeah, you’re right. I liked him from the last star fighter.

Yeah, he was mr. Potter.

Craig: He’s been in tons. You’re definitely going to recognize them, especially if you grew up when we did in the eighties. Um, but he worked for decades. The nun is trying to convince him to hire Billy. He’s like, no, I don’t need any kids that, you know, my, the only job I have is in the stock room.

It’s a lot of lifting. Um, I can’t do it. And she’s like, well, just meet him. And he’s like, no, I don’t really want to. She’s like, well, here he is. And it does the total, you know, pan up from the floor, which is usually the male gaze. And in my case still is, but the male gaze shot, you know, from the floor all the way up his body.

And this is 18 year old, Billy, Billy, you said he looks 28. I don’t know. I thought he looked and it may just be because he has kind of a youthful. This image, I guess I have no idea how old he really was, but he’s strapping and handsome. He’s he’s blonde and athletic and smiling. He just looks like a very nice young man.

And he is a very nice young man. And that’s the thing like, he’s like, Oh, well, in that case, sure. I’ll hire him. He’s hired. And then they do a movie or movie, a music montage. Where it shows, uh, Billy working around the store, interacting with his coworkers, interacting with customers, interacting with children.

And he just seems like the nicest young man. Yeah. He’s hard working. He’s respectful. He just seems like just the nicest guy,

Todd: you know, he refuses whiskey for milk. He’s checking out. Pamela is his, his coworker. And in the meantime, he’s got this other douchebag coworker who just lays into him for really no reason at all.

Um, as it’s getting around the Christmas season, he’s been working there for a couple months. He’s clearly like he sees an image of Santa and he kind of spaces out and there’s some flashback moments and things. And Andy lays into him.

Craig: And I’m going to level with you

Todd: when you came here a couple of months ago, you

Craig: were not right kid, but all of a sudden you got this fucking attitude problem.

Snapping at me all the time, just staring off into space. Like some moon goes,

Todd: you just, just leave me alone.

Craig: All right. When I leave you alone, asshole, none of your fucking work

Todd: gets done. There’s this great sequence where he’s laying in bed. Apparently we find out. Uh, but he’s imagining that he’s bagging Pamela and the two of them, their naked bodies are just twirled up in each other and they’re running their hands all over.

Craig: It’s like it. And it’s so it’s so innocent. Like there it’s, I wouldn’t call it a sex scene. Like they’re just kind of laying with their legs and twines naked and it just shows the difference in the aesthetic. Of 1984 to 2020. Cause this cute good-looking guy has one of the hairiest asses I’ve ever seen

in 2020, they would wax that shit right off.

his dream, which, you know, it’s not dirty. It’s not a nasty dream. It’s actually kind of nice. It’s sensual and gentle. But, uh, then at the end of the dream, Sante appears and stabs him and, you know, runs his knife all the way down his torso and he wakes up. Sweaty and panicked and any huddles in the corner.

And the movie reminds us that it’s the same way he did it when he was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. And again, like, I really have sympathy for this guy. I feel bad for him. I feel bad that I feel bad that. Christmas is ruined for him because I love Christmas. I feel bad that sex is ruined for him. Like here, he’s having this totally like gentlemanly sex dream.

Like it’s not,

it’s not like he’s having a dream about ravaging. This girl, he’s having a lovely, romantic sex, but even that is ruined for him and, and he’s messed up. And, and then things really go to hell when the next day mrs. Somebody, I don’t remember her name. There’s a woman mrs. Randall. As an employee of the store too.

And she goes to mr. Simpson says, we got a problem. Our Santa Claus broke his ankle and we’ve got to replace them. And so mr. Sims goes to Billy and says, look, you’re a great employee. I’m so grateful for everything you’ve done. Can you just do me one favor? And Billy’s like, yeah, absolutely. Anything, all you have to do is ask.

And then the next thing you see is mr. Sims. Like, Oh man, you look great. You look totally jolly. And then. The camera pans to Billy and the Santa suit looking like, I know how to describe it. Like his face is just blank. Like this is horrible and so traumatic for him. It’s the worst

Todd: possible thing that could happen to this

Craig: poor guy?

Yes. The worst thing that could happen,

Todd: throw him in a Santa suit. Stick him in this sleigh, in the store and these kids are lined up. And so he’s got this girl on his lap and he’s the world’s most awkward Santa. Oh, it’s awful. And this girl is squirming and there’s a line of parents just staring at them, smile piling and the girl’s squirming and screaming.

He’s like, Hey, quit it. Stop squirming. He says, I punished naughty children. Severely.

Craig: Yeah. Oh God.

Todd: She stops just stares at him and stopped squirming and he gives her a sucker and she goes down and one of the moms from the sites has. Oh, he’s such a good Santa. He really knows how to handle children.

Craig: I know it’s really funny, but at the same time, like, it made me very uncomfortable when that girl was on his lap and he was talking to her that way.

Yeah. Um, I mean, I know it was supposed to, you know, that was the point. Like he’s supposed to be a terrible Santa and he’s just, you know, he’s just saying the same things that have been said to him, but, Oh God, like, it just gave me the willies. Okay. So they have the Santa visit or whatever, and then the store is closing and they’re going to have their party.

Mr. Sims is like,

And they start to party and it looks like fun. Everybody’s having a good time. And. I had forgotten this too. Mr. Sims gives 18 year old Billy alcohol, uh, whiskey. I think I never thought of it before. So maybe it’s 40 something year old. Me thinking about it differently than 20 something year old me, but I almost felt like the alcohol played a role in what happens next.

Like he was already unstable and then, you know, he’s young, he’s never had alcohol before. We’ve seen him refuse alcohol in the past and now he’s. Had it. And I think that plays a part. Anyway, Dick Andy is flirting with Pamela, the girl that Billy is kind of crushing on or whatever, and they kiss, you know, consensually out in front of everybody.

Um, but then he lures her into the back with the promise of a Christmas present and they get back there and she’s like, dude, if you have a Christmas present, just give it to me in front of everybody. He’s like, no, this is a, a special present that I can’t just. Bring out in front of everybody. It’s something that I’ve wanted to give you for a long time.

Oh my God. And is kind of looking at the doors of the back room and eventually, and he looks very concerned and stern, like he starting to lose it and he goes back there right at the moment where we first hear her objecting. Like, no, stop it. Stop it. No. Then we see Andy and he’s very aggressive with her.

Got it. I have to tell you, sometimes I worry that young people watch these movies and think that guys in general are just rapey. Like, it’s just so weird to me. How rapey guys are in movies sometimes. It’s I

Todd: know what you mean. I know what you mean.

Craig: He ripped open her shirt. Exposes her breasts. And then he’s clearly attempting to rape her and, and she’s, you know, struggling and objecting and, and all of this, everything that’s happening, the quality keeps changing.

So the film quality, so you can tell. What parts were in the theatrical release in which parts weren’t. And there’s an interesting sequence of, I don’t know, maybe 15 seconds. That’s just kind of a closeup on Billy’s face. And it kind of scans around his face in an interesting way. And he’s having flashbacks to when his mother was being assaulted and that whole night.

And I feel like you clearly see the break. He just broke a he’s crazy now. And so he kills them. I mean, he, he kills what’s. He kills the guy first. Oh. And I totally forgot about this. The way that he kills him as he approaches him from the, from behind, he wraps Christmas lights around his neck and then just like he’s fricking Michael Myers holds him up by the Christmas lights and hangs him.

That was crazy. Yeah.

Todd: The whole Billy with super strength I met happens a couple of times in this movie is a little, okay. It’s a little hard to swallow. He’s clearly a very strong guy, but I really have a hard time believing that with one arm, he’s holding this guy up to strangle him.

Craig: It happens again later with Linnea Quigley, Linnea, Quigley.

I had totally forgotten. She was in Israeli. Yeah.

Todd: Can’t wait to talk about her. Let’s just skip to her. Okay.

Craig: And we should, it happens again later with her, but I believed it with her because she probably weighs 90 pounds, you know, like

Todd: yeah, of course.

Craig: You can look, she’s a tiny, tiny person

Todd: and he used to arms

Craig: and true.

He does, but this guy, I mean, he’s a short guy, but he’s kind of squat. Like he’s gotta be at least one 50, one 60. And to just hold him up with one arm, to be fair, this. Actor who plays Billy? He’s a built guy. I mean, he’s not like a bodybuilder looking guy. He’s an athletic looking guy. So I believe he’s strong.

I don’t know if I believe he’s that strong. Um, and then I guess the way that, you know, he’s really unhinged is that he also kills Pamela.

Todd: He gets a box cutter and he guts, you know, he just stabs her in the stomach and rips it up to her chest. And clearly the glorious part of that, the moat actually in all of these scenes, the most closeup, most gory things that happened were clearly things that were cut.

Right. Because you can see the quality change, but yeah, he kills her and that was kind of a shock again, punished, but I guess, you know, he had been taught that sex is bad by the nun. And so he’s going to kill her right. Because she had sex.

Craig: Well, plus she turns on him, you know, she’s, she’s not. Appreciative that he just rescued her.

She calls him crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Not a reason to kill her, but whatever. And then it kind of bothered me then that he also kills mr. Simms. He kills mr. Sims with a hammer.

Todd: Yeah. I didn’t get this part

Craig: because they didn’t do anything wrong.

Todd: He didn’t do anything wrong. And then the other woman,

Craig: mrs. Randall,

Todd: you know, she, there’s a bit of a stalking scene in there and he picks up an accident, stalking her and yeah.

Shoots her through with an arrow. And again, neither the two of them did anything wrong.

Craig: They’re an enormous deadly bow and arrow in this toy star. Like it was the biggest I’ve ever seen. It’s silly. I mean, it was, it was, it, it was really frankly, a good chase. He was, and, and mrs. Randall was kind of clever.

And I liked her. She was a funny character, but it bothered me that he killed them because they didn’t do anything wrong. The biggest thing that bothers me about this movie is that though the actor who plays Billy, Robert, Brian Wilson, who after this movie was so disturbed by all the controversy that he told his friends and family not to see it.

And it wasn’t until much, much later. That, uh, he saw that there was a lot of fan support for it. And then he started doing, um, conventions and things, but, and his career, he still worked after this, but not a lot. My biggest problem, I think with it is that once he becomes unhinged the performance. Isn’t compelling.

And he goes around killing these people. And every time he jumps out to kill somebody, he just goes punish or naughty. Like, yeah,

Todd: it’s kind of dumb I’m with you on that

Craig: then. Okay. So apparently he goes on this spree, which he goes to this house where, um, Linea quickly is a babysitter and she’s babysitting this kid.

And, but really she’s just banging this guy on the pool table. And of course, I knew she was in excise are in the credits. I didn’t know before the opening credits. I didn’t know it before that. And that was real excited. And then it came on and, um, my partner was walking through the room and I said, look, look, it’s my friend Linea quickly.

And he came over and he looked and he goes, of course it is her tits are out.

And I said, yep, that’s my girl.

Oh, God, I just love her.

Todd: Yeah. It was a joy to see Lynette in this. And she was almost, I mean, she’s so young in this that she’s almost unrecognizable and she’s not wearing a ton of makeup. Like, you know, she’s just kind of a girl next door in this. Whereas in a lot of the other movies, she’s sort of a plays a more bad girl or, or, you know, they’re just kind of dressing her up a lot more.

But, uh, she was great here and yeah, just in true Linnea Quigley form, you know, her tits were out for almost her entire scene. The shirt’s off when we meet her, the whole thing, right. The shirts off when we meet her and it never goes back on,

Craig: she goes to the door to let the cat in. Totally top slide, just

Todd: tits out front door, wide open,

Craig: like carolers in the street, whatever.

And then Billy jumps in the door and says naughty and they struggle. But most of the struggle is he picks her up like by the waist and is just, well, he flings her around a lot. It’s, it’s a pretty good struggle. And again, Having spoken to her once. So we’re like best friends. I’m like, Oh, Linnea, you’re doing such a good job.

And how brave of you, you know, because he’s really throwing her around. And, uh, she’s so tiny and in, in eventually lifts her over his head and impales her arm. Antlers. I don’t know what the animal was.

Todd: It was a deer. Yeah.

Craig: Gory and it’s a practical effect. It doesn’t look amazing, but totally serviceable for 1984.

It’s another scene that was obviously cut from the theatrical release, but then she’s hanging there dead and the blood is dripping. And then, uh, the, the boy. Uh, Tommy who’s played by Leo Gator, who I also recognized he was in Footloose. He was in near dark. He comes up and he and Billy fight for a little while.

He ends up getting thrown out the window and the glass from the window, like him pails him all over his body. So he’s dead. Oh, I forgot to say one of my favorite lines when they’re making out on the table and she’s topless. He like gets on top of her and says, Two ball in the corner pocket. Oh my God.

That is, that’s a great line.

Todd: There’s another great one too. Is when her younger sister is calling down yeah. From the top and interrupting them,

Craig: you don’t go back to bed,

Todd: but that was a good one too. So stupid

Craig: but funny.

Todd: But here’s my question. W how does he find this house and these people? I mean, I don’t know. It’s just so random, right? Like they’re in the basement banging on the pool table, I guess he’s punishing them for having sex, but yeah, he wouldn’t have known he’s outside.

These are just, they’re not related. Are they does even know these?

Craig: No, no. And, and, and, and so then right after that, the little girl. Approaches them. And he asks her if she’s been good, has she been naughty at all? And she’s like, no, I’ve not been naughty at all. So he gives her the bloody box cutter and smiles and leaves.

Then basically, I don’t know, some other things happen. There’s a scene with some trouble dog owners who then get bullied and then the bullies get killed. And, you know, it’s just kind of a one-off scene, nothing really all that. And then we see sister Margaret asleep at the police state. Uh, at the police station and when she wakes up, the captain is talking to her and she says, there’s a logic to his murders.

And the captain says, well, if that’s true, then we should be able to figure out where he’s going next. And she immediately realizes he’s going to be going to the orphanage, which does make sense, but it doesn’t make sense that there’s any logic to his murder. There’s not like,

Todd: yeah, there’s no logic to his murder.

Craig: No. He’s just randomly killing the people he comes across.

Todd: Yeah. And even the fact that he’s killing bull only bullies or whatever, nobody would know that because there are no witnesses to his crimes. So yeah, it makes no sense. And by the way, we’re about 15 minutes away from the end of the movie. At this point, when the police detective comes in, it’s pretty rushed from here on out.

Craig: It’s very simple, you know, they figure out he’s going there. They send the cops there, a cop shows up. The cop sees a Santa Claus approaching the kids in, who are playing in the yard. The cop shoots the Santa, but we never see the Santa Fe. So it’s. Obvious to the audience that it’s not him. And it turns out it’s not these poor kids.

Todd: I know watching the cops shoot Santa Claus, dead blood sprays on their faces and everything. And now when they’re riding in the car back when the police detective is riding in the car with the, with the younger, none to go to the orphanage, they hear over the radio. Um, sir, we have some bad news. The guy, he doesn’t match the description and the nun covers her mouth and says, Oh my God, it’s father O’Brien.

And then the guy on the radio says, yeah, but he didn’t stop when the cop called to him. Well, of course he wouldn’t stop because he’s deaf.

What a handy turn of events for the plies. No. Oh, the deaf man dressed is saying, uh, uh, got accidentally shot by the cop from a

Craig: mother. Superior is more angry that the attending officer doesn’t call her mother superior than she is about the fact that he killed one of their priests and the kids are all just sitting there like.

I know I’ve worked with kids and working with kids is hard and you get a big group of kids around and they’re supposed to be scared, like whatever. I mean, they’re just sitting there, but mother superior is like, let’s distract them. Let’s let’s sing. And so they sing. So the attending officer goes around and looks for Billy and doesn’t find it.

But then Billy finds him and kills him. And then. It all culminates when Billy comes to the door and one of the singing children sees him and is still excited to see Santa, even though they’ve just seen Santa gunned down right in front of them, he opens the door.

Todd: It makes no sense. No, it’s silly.

Craig: And he comes in and mother superior gets all of the.

Kids behind her. And he’s like, you’ve been naughty. You must be punished basically, just saying the same things back to her that she said to him and have any part in the movie. I was like, yeah, yeah,

Todd: this was the one. Right. I was waiting to see her head fly through the air at this point, right off her wheelchair. Oh my God. And that would’ve been so nice. But no, there’s like, uh, everything’s slow motion and there’s a freeze frame and suddenly he, he buckles backwards. And it’s your classic? Oh, just in the Nick of time, the police detective happened to be behind him and shot him in the back.

Craig: Yeah, he collapses

Todd: right. In the middle of all the kids,

Craig: just kind of, it struck me as just being kind of sad. He’s laying there dying in sister Margaret’s arms. And he says to the kids who are kind of all huddled around, you’re safe now, Santa clauses, God. And then he dies. Like,

Todd: that’s kind of sad. I said from there, uh, the camera pans up the axes at the foot of his younger brother and pans up to him and the younger brother looks at the mother superior and says, Naughty naughty.

It’s clearly a setup for a sequel,

Craig: which they did, which

Todd: did happen. They did two sequels to this, the fall of the younger brother.

Craig: See part three. I did see part two. It’s even worse than this movie. It’s really, really bad. I mean, it’s one of those movies that you could argue is so bad that it’s good. And I haven’t seen it.

And even longer than I’ve seen this. So I remember very little about it.

Todd: Two is mostly bits and pieces of part one. It is just some new footage edited in right. Looks like it’s like a movie that’s at least half flashback.

Craig: Yeah, it is. It is.

Todd: But then we reviewed, was it the fourth one or the fifth one? The fifth one with Mickey Rooney in it.

And, uh, that was a hilarious, hilarious movie, but it had nothing to do with the killer Saint. Yeah. It was just a silent night, deadly night in name only. And there was about a toy maker who makes toys that kill.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Uh, at the end of the day, like I said, I actually liked this movie more than I thought I would.

I think I just saw bits and pieces probably the last half of the movie. And I just thought it was boring and weird. And maybe even as a kid, if I had seen it, I would have thought the first. Half of the movie was boring as well, because it’s mostly just set up for what’s coming. It’s really just getting you into a psychological state, watching this kid be traumatized so that when he becomes an adult, you believe it.

And that’s a good 40, almost 40 minutes of the movie really is that. And for that as an adult watching it, I actually am. I liked that. I mean, I like watching it, but I mean, I liked that bit. I thought as a film, I gave it a lot more credit than I thought I was going to give it. I thought it was skillfully done.

I thought it was very confidently shot. And, uh, even some very inventive things with some of the camera work in there. The acting was pretty good all around. Uh, there were a few people who had some laughable acting, but most of it was pretty good, especially for a movie like this. Some recognizable faces in there convincing character arc, but like you said, I would have the same criticism that as soon as he starts killing, it’s just.

He’s, he might as well be a faceless guy running around and killing people for no logical reason after a while. And I don’t know, you could say he snapped, but that’s so much less satisfying than this idea that he’s going around punishing people, because he now believes he’s Santa Claus and that’s what Santa Claus is supposed to do, you know?

What he’s learned as a kid. So it does go a little bit off the rails a little later, and it certainly gets ridiculous. And especially when it comes into these kid actors in this orphanage, uh, none of that’s convincing how they react to what’s going on around them and ultimately unsatisfying that mother superior doesn’t get it.

But I. I assume she gets it in part two or part three. I can see they were setting it up for sequel, but yeah, I enjoyed this movie more than I thought I would. And I was compelling enough to sit and watch it and I wasn’t bored. It was a totally different experience than I expected. So,

Craig: yeah. And it’s, it’s a short movie.

Um, so you’re not, you know, spending a lot of time with it ultimately. My assessment of it is it’s fine. And it’s actually better and more competent than I remembered it being it’s better and more competent than many of the slashers in the same vein. It’s not great, but it’s not. Terrible. And from a 2020 perspective, it’s just interesting to think of how much controversy it called because, or caused because while there certainly is some violence and Gore, it it’s, it’s mild.

Compared to the things that we see today, I actually enjoyed a lot of the performances. I hated mother superior, but I thought she was good in her role. I really liked mr. Sims. I really liked his Copart. I liked Billy until he, he, he switched and then I thought I got a little bit, one note, but whatever. I mean, ultimately.

I thought it was a fine movie and I wouldn’t, as I have before, I wouldn’t steer people away from it. Sure. Watch it. It’s fine. Yeah. I’m not gonna, you know, sing its praises, but it’s not bad. And as a cultural phenomenon, I think it’s worth seeing just to see what all the fuss is about. And ultimately I think the fuss wasn’t about very much at all.

That’s all.

Todd: No, definitely not. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend. You can find us online anywhere. There are podcasts. Which just by Googling two guys and a chainsaw, you can find our Facebook page or Twitter feed, and also our website.

Go ahead and leave us a note on any one of those. Let us know what you thought of this film and leave us some suggestions for other holiday movies we can do coming up. We’ve got Lisa. A few more holiday films here for the Christmas season. So early happy holidays to all of you. And until the next time we meet, I am Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week’s episode is certainly our most pointed Thanksgiving horror film to-date. Only found on Hulu as part of Blumhouse’s “Into the Dark” full-length feature series, “Pilgrim” is a goofy yet disturbing tale of what happens to a family that is not so thankful for what it has – and somewhat-improbably based on a true story.

Happy Thanksgiving, dear listeners! We are thankful for each and every one of you.

Pilgrim (2020)

Episode 236, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, last month was Halloween month. This month, we have another big holiday in the U S Thanksgiving. And usually we, I have a hard time finding Thanksgiving horror movies. So this time around Craig was able to dig up a film. That’s actually a full length movie, part of an anthology series that’s playing right now on Hulu.

The name of the series is called Into the Dark. I believe it’s on its second season. And this is episode two, called Pilgrim. Very pointedly Thanksgiving, maybe the most Thanksgiving of the Thanksgiving horror movies we’ve been able to dig up over these years. Right?

Craig: I think so.

Todd: I think until we see like Eli Ross, thanks, killing or whatever like that, uh, here we are with a Pilgrim and you can only find this on Hulu right now.

And again, it’s part of this anthology series. So 12 episodes in each of these seasons and. That’s supposed to be from what I read online course, this is the only one I’ve seen. It’s supposed to be that each of these episodes, which are full length features are supposed to center around the holiday of a particular month.

But from what I’ve read online, some of them referenced the holidays a little better than others. This one, again, being quite on the nose. I, um, I really enjoyed watching this movie and it wasn’t until the end of the film that I was reminded of some texts that came up at the beginning of the film. Which said that it was based on a mostly true,

Craig: right?

What?

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: that’s gotta be bullshit. Right. That’s

Todd: what I was thinking. I mean, of course it’s mostly bullshit, but at the end of the movie, there is a, uh, photograph that comes up. That’s a picture of, uh, Apparently a real life picture from one of the writers, the co-writers of the story who actually came up with a story and claims that something like this happened to his family.

And what happened was at Thanksgiving when he was a kid, his family had had brought in a reenactor Pilgrim. Uh, in his house for Thanksgiving and this guy apparently never broke character and it became very awkward and very weird and strange. Now I don’t think it ever got quite to the degree that a, this movie, seriously not, or else we’d be seeing this.

Famous crime stories instead of some worry about ology on Hulu, but, um, it’s intriguing. Nonetheless. I wish I could have found out more about it. I really couldn’t. So aside from that photo and a couple quick little interviews online, where else? Yeah, this sort of thing happened to my family. It’s. Sort of based on a true story.

So in any case, uh, interesting concept and that’s exactly what it is. This woman, um, is not happy with the way, or family’s not quite coming together. They need a little boost of Thanksgiving spirit. And so she decides that she’s going to invite this Pilgrim reenactment thing that she found online into her home.

And it all kind of spirals from there. So, Craig, I hadn’t heard of this until you recommended it to me. How did you find it?

Craig: I literally just Googled Thanksgiving, Halloween or Thanksgiving horror movies, which, which we’ve done for years at this point. And no, I had never heard of it either, but it was one of the first ones that popped up and I read the synopsis night.

I agreed with you. Like, we may actually have a legit Thanksgiving horror movie on our hands and we definitely do this movie. It was pleasant surprise for me, you know, I didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t have Hulu either. I didn’t. I signed up for a free trial just so that we could watch this.

Todd: Yay.

Thanks. Thanks for sharing your login with me, buddy.

Craig: You’re welcome.

Todd: Now you’ve got like what 14 days to go and watch all the other, um, episodes in this long series. I kind of feel like that might’ve been a bit of an impetus for you to go ahead and pull the trigger on it.

Craig: Yeah, it really was. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about for a while.

And, and, uh, when I was looking around on the platform, again, we don’t get paid by any of these platforms. So take this information as you will, but you know, when I signed up, they have, you kind of look around and. See the types of things you’re interested in, and then they give you recommendations and whatnot.

And there actually is a lot of content on Hulu and, and, uh, you know, a fair amount of horror content on there. And it’s only six bucks a month. And. At first, I was thinking like, Oh man, you know, I already subscribed to Netflix and shutter and like, do I really need it? Another street Disney? I don’t lie.

True. Well, my mom pays for that while

Todd: it’s true. Confessions time here on two guys and chainsaw my,

Craig: my parents. My parents pay for Disney. Plus I pay for Netflix. We share,

Todd: you know, what a true spirit of Thanksgiving.

Craig: Yeah. There’s some good content. And I was talking to my partner last night and I was like, you know, a month of Hulu costs less than a value meal at McDonald’s.

I think we can probably swing it.

Todd: You pay more for it, like a coffee at Starbucks, to be honest.

Craig: Exactly. But anyway, so. So we, uh, and you know, this was kind of last minute. You and I were talking about what we wanted to do, and I had thrown this one out there, but neither of us had a subscription. And so, you know, we were kind of waiting to the last minute to decide what we wanted to do.

And we finally decided we wanted to do this. So I signed up and, uh, I signed up late yesterday afternoon and I would have had time to watch it on my own, but my partner was like, you know what? We don’t really have anything to watch later. I’ll watch it with you. It’s cool. And we, so we watched it together and as our listeners, if they are regular listeners know my partner’s just not super into horror.

Like he doesn’t hate it. He’s just not super into it. And he just indulges me from time to time and we watched it together. And he didn’t hate it. Yeah. It’s pretty good. One of the things that he liked about it, uh, was one of the same things I liked about it. It is just so deeply entrenched in Thanksgiving.

Like it feels like a holiday movie and, and he does like holiday movies,

Todd: heartwarming holiday movies.

Craig: Krampus. Like he really likes Krampus because it’s Christmas movie and he’s big time into Christmas so we can enjoy these things together and he didn’t love it. And I don’t know that I would say that I loved it. I don’t think it was an amazing movie. I don’t even know that I would necessarily even ever have to watch it again, but it was engaging and.

Fresh and a concept that I had never seen before. And ultimately, you know, we both walked away from it feeling satisfied. Yeah. I don’t know. You know, the, the, the performances were fine. It feels very new because it is it’s 2019. It’s very clean, you know, uh, the, the, the, the video, the cinematography is very clean.

There were parts of it to me. And I suppose that technically it kind of is made for TV since it’s kind of like a streaming service original, and there were parts of it that felt a little made for TV. And maybe that had to do with the budget. I don’t know. They, they did some, some stuff with the cinematography, like weird.

Fisheye kind of stuff and weird angle kind of stuff that I didn’t really think was necessary or really added much to it. Um, but at the same time I did find it very tense. I did find it suspenseful. I knew something bad was going to happen, but I didn’t know how it was going to play out. And yeah. Uh, overall I thought it was a fun little Thanksgiving movie.

Todd: I thought the movie did a pretty good job early on of establishing a real sense of unease that never left it. It’s a bit of a slow build in the beginning, but then once it gets going, like probably the last half hour or so, 45 minutes, it really doesn’t let up on the action and the blood. And there are also some very jarring tonal shifts in the movie where

Craig: it

Todd: overall, I would say.

It kind of takes itself pretty seriously. At least the villains in this movie. They’re not winking at the audience. Um, they’re totally serious and you’re kind of waiting for that because it’s a goofy idea. However, then there are moments of the movie were just horrible things happen and that’s just that.

Then there’ll be a scene where somebody makes some goofy CLA Quip or something kind of silly happens. And

Craig: yes, it’s

Todd: just so jarring that it creates a very uncomfortable feeling. Like you kind of leave them the movie a little disturbed, at least I did, because I couldn’t completely dismiss it as, okay.

Well, that was a goofy, silly Thanksgiving movie because some really serious horrible things happened to this family. But on the other hand, I’m thinking about it. I’m like, yeah, but. But it’s kinda, it’s kinda dumb, you know, like it’s, it’s kind of, it’s clearly extreme. It’s clearly goofy, but the movie was not delivered in a way and certainly not acting in a way by the villains anyway, to, to be a tongue in cheek enterprise that you would think Pilgrim the Thanksgiving horror movie should be.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I, I totally smell it. You’re stepping in, like, there are parts of it where I was like, Oh, they’re being really. Clever and funny. And, and I laughed at, in those moments, but the, the stakes are still high, even though there are some kind of, you know, quippy, funny moments. It’s not all over the place.

It’s just here and there. And, and still the stakes are high. You still believe that these people are in peril even as. I don’t want to spoil the end. Um, but you know, there are some moments at the end where you really kind of see what’s coming and it is kind of goofy, but at the same time, brutal, it’s almost kinda like.

And, and not comparable in quality, but like the Texas chainsaw massacre, um, you know, that’s a, it’s a brutal movie and the stakes are high, but they’re are humorous elements to it also. Um, I don’t know I enjoyed it. It, it starts, it starts out. We kind of get this flashback, I guess, couple fighting and, and the little girl is watching.

It’s like this, it’s like a family Thanksgiving with a mother and a father and a little girl and the mother and the father are fighting. And as it turns out, I guess I never really put all this together, but it seems like this mother and father who we see fighting are the mother and father of our main character.

Whose name is Cody? This beautiful supposedly teenage girl. She looks like she’s in her twenties, but she’s gorgeous. And I guess what happened was that there had been some big fight. In a Thanksgiving past and the original mom had left. Um, and, and we didn’t, I never really, I kept expecting there to be a story about why she left, but I never.

Yeah, because they returned to this flashback a couple of times, but I never picked up, did I miss something? Did you pick up, did they explain why she left?

Todd: No, they didn’t really explain it. I think it sounds like, well, it’s her father, right? And now she has a stepmother.

Craig: Right. Right.

Todd: So I assume that that earlier argument scene was between her, her father and her real mother.

And I think based on later conversations, what had happened was that her dad was her mom left because her dad was cheating on her or something, or maybe the opposite, some kind of adult.

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know. I just never, I just never picked up on it.

Todd: Because she has a half-brother now, now she has a new mom and her half-brothers like eight or nine years old.

So this is clearly, clearly at least, uh, eight or nine years in the future. So she must be fairly smaller feet. Aren’t even touching the ground and you’re right. They keep coming to the scene. They keep referencing it in later scenes, which was actually pretty clever because the camera starts at her feet, where all you can see is her feet and then comes up behind the chair and then kind of comes over her head.

And then that’s when it brings it into present day. Um, and this woman is played by, um, I mean, I know what a soap opera guy you are, but I’m not sure if you’re a bold and the beautiful guy, but, uh, rain Edwards is the woman playing this. And, uh, she has been in

Craig: Cody is that you’re talking about the daughter.

Todd: Yeah, the daughter. Okay.

Craig: Yeah. I can see that. She looks like a sofa for actress. She’s very beautiful.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, she was in bold and beautiful for several years, I guess a little two to almost 270 episodes. She’s in a reboot of MacGyver snowfall. Uh, the wilds TV series, which I guess is, is going to be coming out here soon.

So she’s a bit of a veteran of television, but fairly new. Veteran of television just within the last five years or so. So, uh, she’s, she’s pretty talented. You liked her performance and her character is such that she’s very modern cynical kind of no nonsense, but also pretty smart. Yeah. I thought, you know, she’s just going to call things as she sees it.

Yeah. And that I liked about her and that’s, that’s what makes the movie kind of fun and unique is that you need, you don’t often in. Horror movies get the app except for nowadays. But you know, you don’t get the woman, who’s calling it as she sees it, which leads to problems like you idiot. Don’t go up the stairs.

You idiot. They’re they’re bad. Get them out of here. You know, we’re saying, she’s saying. Yeah,

Craig: well, that’s one of the things that I liked about the movie is that I felt like she was painted very realistically as a teenage girl. Again, even though she looks older, she’s cynical, like teenagers typically are, but she’s also very woke and like that is,

Todd: yeah,

Craig: that’s, that’s kind of a crux of the movie, because another thing that I like about the movie is that the step-mom Anna in the beginning just seems like a total bitch.

Like that’s what. I wrote about her in the beginning. Like step-mom Anna is a bitch, but then as the movie goes on, I feel like the characterization becomes a little bit more well-rounded where maybe she’s a bitch, but she doesn’t have bad intentions. You know, her intentions really are good. Like she tells them.

Very early on, like within minutes, uh, of the beginning that she’s going to be bringing in this whole cast of, uh,

Todd: reenactors,

Craig: reenactors.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Send somebody out here. They’re going to make us a big dinner to just how they did things in the olden days. Like in the olden days, what does that even mean? It means that it will be just like the first Thanksgiving with a lot of.

Food and sharing. Oh great. Let’s honor. The whitewash history of the native American genocide. Like

Todd: that’s exactly how one’s from a break. Thank you.

Craig: Hi Cody. Well, you could try to think of this as a fun and creative way of getting back to basics, celebrating the true and important meaning of the holiday, but spending quality time together as a family, which we can all do more of.

Right, babe. And maybe this is what finally brings us together. I doubt that Anna Cody fine. I still think it’s weird though. And I don’t need a history lesson from these people. They’re talking about it over dinner and they’re eating, I don’t know a chicken or something and they finish the chicken and the dad who’s played by Kurt Smith, who I think are friends.

Simone has, I feel like she’s talked about him on the podcast before she had a huge crush on him. He was on Dawson’s Creek. He’s it’s so weird to see people from the teen shows that were on when we were like teens or in our early twenties. To see them now. And they’re like our age.

Todd: He was Carter and final destination as well.

Craig: Oh, that’s right. That’s why she talks about him.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, that was it. And he’s not a very sympathetic character in the beginning. I mean, he’s okay. He doesn’t come across as yeah. Bad guy. He’s just completely not focused on the family. He must be doing some stock trading or something because he spends all day staring at his phone.

He’s at the table. He’s got his phone or his tablet or something with him at all times. Barely paying attention to the conversation that’s going around him yet. Interestingly enough. He’s not a caricature of this kind of person, either. Like, it’s funny that mom will have these conversations with him while he’s on his laptop or whatever.

And it seems like he’s not paying attention, but then he’ll kind of look up and go, wait, what was that? It’s a small touch. Right? But it was a nice well-rounded touch too. I never felt like this guy didn’t care about his family or was completely detached from them. He was just, as many people can get in this day and age.

Getting a little work he’s bringing work home and he can’t escape it. His mind is elsewhere. So I think the teenage daughter feels like he’s totally tuned out of her. And then she doesn’t like her. Step-mom there’s no really good reason given, except that maybe she’s just a teenager or maybe she’s just a little resentful that she’s coming to her life and her real mom was gone.

And then she has this half-brother who’s about eight years old. And his name was what was his name? Tate.

Craig: Yeah, tastes cute.

Todd: He’s cute little kid with glasses and stuff and smart and just all around. Nice. I mean, honestly, there’s nothing really terribly wrong with his family, which I thought was made it a little relatable in that.

Right. You know, there’s just a modern family and we’ve all got these minor small issues, but everyone seems to care about each other and love each other to the extent that, you know, they’re the ages they are and are able to express that,

Craig: but there is tension and they are quippy. With one another, especially the mom or the step-mom and the daughter.

And like, like you said, the dad is very preoccupied with work before you said, like ignoring his family. I was going to say, he reminds me of you just because you are somebody that works all the time. Like you’re always working, but I know. Also very much love and appreciate your family. And so I don’t get that this guy doesn’t care about his family.

I don’t get that at all. It’s just that he is busy and he says at some point, I, I don’t remember if it’s the daughter of the mom. I think it’s the daughter calls them out like. Um, they’re trying to talk to him at the dinner table and he’s on his tablet. The daughter says something like, well, God forbid, we inter we interrupt dad.

And the little brother very sincerely says, no, I never want to interrupt dad. Like, he means it. Like, I don’t want to interrupt him. Busy and the dad says something like, uh, yeah, I have to do this, this house doesn’t pay for itself. And he’s sending the daughter to a private school. He says that’s like something like $65,000 a year.

Holy shit.

Todd: Yeah. Even imagine.

Craig: Yeah. She’s skipping class. Like if I were paying $65,000 a year, I’d be pissed. If my kid was skipping class too. Yeah, but you’re right. It’s not like they seem like some horrible family. They just seem like a very modern family. And like you said, the daughter and the step-mom there’s tension between them, but not really any different than there would be between neces stereotypically,

Todd: many teenage daughter.

Craig: Yeah. Any teenage daughter and their mother, or maybe specifically their stepmother, especially if the stepmother came into their life later. So. Oh, okay. What I was trying to get at was there at dinner and, um, they finished dinner and the dad says, well, somebody should break the wishbone and Cody and Tate break the wishbone.

Uh, Cody, doesn’t say it out loud, but we hear her thoughts. Her thought her wish is I wish this whole thing would backfire in your stupid face. She’s talking about this whole Pilgrim reenactment thing.

Todd: Yeah, cause she’s all like, Oh, you know, again, Whoa, she’s all like, Oh, so we’re going to bring a, reenactor here to, uh, talk about the colonialization and you know, the oppression of, you know, she’s basically very cynical about the whole idea, which is, which is a fair point.

Craig: I know it is. It’s so interesting. Like the opening credits are played over all of this Thanksgiving propaganda that we were forced fed when we were kids, you and me, when we were kids. You know, this, this whole story of, uh, you know, the pilgrims meeting, the native Americans and the native Americans brought them Mays and turkeys and everything was peaceful.

And they sat down and they shared a meal and everything was so happy. It’s, it’s a crock. I mean, that’s, that’s not what really happened at all, but that’s exactly what I was taught, you know, and, and we were brought up making hand print turkeys and,

Todd: and. Where Indian feather headbands to put on. And some of us would pretend to be native Americans and 

Craig: paper, buckle hat, you know?

Yeah. We would make the, the construction paper, like headbands with feathers coming out.

Todd: It’s so hilarious. I was a lot of fun though. I have good memories of that, but it’s American mythology

Craig: people. In Cody’s generation are more aware of the true history of this. And the tides are turning on our whole perspective on Columbus and Thanksgiving.

And the way that we, as you know, white Europeans came over and really. Stole everything from the native Americans. And I’m not trying to get political. That’s not what this is all about, but it’s significant in the movie. The plot kind of hinges on that because the mom says these people are coming. They have this like HOA, they host the HOA meeting or something, and it’s a big deal.

The mom’s trying to impress everybody. Cody actually overhears the other HOA. Mom’s talking about. Her step mom and saying what a joke it is, you know, how pretentious she is or whatever, but then these pilgrims show up. Is this the Barker residents? Is it a year? The Thanksgiving reenactors you’re early. I wasn’t a, you weren’t supposed to, you needed time to settle in and prepare after such a long journey.

I’m sorry, I’m being rude. I’m being repeated. Come in, come in. I’m Ethan. And this here is patient and, uh, this is, uh, my daughter Cody. Well, I look forward to getting to know you over the coming days. The coming days, I thought this was just the Thanksgiving dinner. Well, uh, things are a little different with the plan, uh, but it looks like Ethan will be staying with us for a few days.

Stay. Like staying, staying in a house, this person, the, the that’s what he’s saying. Um, a motel comes to mind. We don’t know them. And then we’re introduced to these other characters who ended up being kind of consequential. And I wasn’t even really sure what the relationship was. This woman, Katherine shows up.

Did you get the impression that Katherine was like their housekeeper?

Todd: Yeah, maybe I w I wasn’t entirely sure on that one. Yeah.

Craig: It was a little unclear to me because they show up and the mom immediately says, Oh, thank God. You’re here. I need your help. I need your help. Like rearrange, rearranging the canopies or something.

Um, and she also says, As a surprise for you, patients is also going to be making your Thanksgiving dinner. Well, it turns out. That not only is Catherine potentially their housekeeper, I guess, but she also has a kid, a son who is a Cody’s boyfriend. I probably could have left them out entirely, but I don’t know they’re around.

So I figured I would mention them, but they ended up having dinner with Ethan the first night and pretty much, you know, he’s in character the whole time, which Cody finds disturbing. She even says to her dad or the step-mom or something he hasn’t broken character wants and that’s creepy. And he doesn’t, they don’t break character.

I’m not even sure if I really understand the nature of these people. I’m not sure if I understand who they are or what they are, but they do never break character and. Ethan, the Pilgrim is telling them, you know, he’s telling them all these great stories that we heard when we were kids about the first Thanksgiving dinner and blah, blah, blah.

And he refers to, um, native Americans as Indians and Cody corrects him. You mean first nation tribes and Ethan is clearly kind of irritated with her that he maintains this polite, demeanor. I mean, you can see in his eyes and in his reactions that he finds her insubordinate and disrespectful, but he never claps back.

You know, it’s always very polite. But creepy from the get-go. And later that night Cody’s in her bed and her boyfriend has snuck in and he’s hanging out with her or whatever, and she hears something and she goes out to check on her brother, who she seems to be very close to and protective of. And she finds him in his room and Ethan is in his bed.

And he’s telling him a bedtime story, you know, about when the natives or excuse me, when the pilgrims first arrived at Plymouth rock or whatever. Now, ultimately this could be entirely innocent, but if I were Cody and I were in her position and I found a grown man stranger in my little brother’s bed in the night, I wouldn’t like that either.

No, just weird. Like it’s almost as though Anna, the mom doesn’t. Get that it’s weird that they have these strangers in their house and that these strangers just have free range. And like they’re building things outside. Like Ethan builds this shit outside and it’s weird. And eventually more pilgrims start showing up, but not before skills, caster and, and the whole thing, like their whole thing.

And they say it. Outright, but in, in a subtle enough way that if you didn’t know it was a horror movie, you might not worry about it, but they keep talking about how we’re here to teach you to be grateful for what you have. And at one point, um, the little kid, uh, Tate is outside and he has found a Crow.

That is, it looked at at first, but apparently it’s not, it’s just dying. And he’s like surrounding it with rocks to try to protect it from the ants. And Ethan finds him and has a talk with them. And I don’t even remember exactly what goes down, but

Todd: he tells a story.

Craig: Oh, that’s right. The story.

Todd: Yeah, it’s a quick little story about the Krone bird.

And he says a Crow got some meat. It found some meat on the ground and started eating the meat. And then it saw a bird go by with a mouse. And that really wanted that mouse. So it left the meat and it went to go get the mouse, but the bird flew away. And then when the Crow came back to the meat, the meat was gone.

And so he said, so what does this mean? Tate says, well, this means that, you know, the bird, he got greedy, he wanted the mouse and now he has nothing. Right. Uh, and so he should have just been thankful for what he had. And, uh, Ethan looks at the sky like he’s looking to God and smiles and says, ah, thank goodness.

Finally, someone who I could teach to be thankful. And I didn’t have to take everything away from them.

Craig: Yup. Yup.

Todd: So I kind of assumed this was where it was going and that was so on the nose confirming it that I thought. Wow. Okay. All right. So this is, this is it. And that was exactly what I expected. So in that way, I actually wasn’t terribly surprised with the direction the movie took.

I was just a little more surprised at how it ended up playing out.

Craig: Oh yeah. I felt the exact same way. I mean, I knew exactly where it was going. It’s almost like, um, the purge, uh,

Todd: it looks like saw.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: That’s I mean, that’s the whole

Craig: M wraps though,

Todd: but no, but it’s the

Craig: whole, Oh no, you’re right. You’re right.

Todd: It’s the whole reason. In fact, you know, it’s funny because the director of, of the movie, um, Marcus Dunstan, who also co-wrote the story. Oh, he also wrote and directed the collector and the,

Craig: that whole series. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. But he actually, I wrote the screenplay for saw four or five and six, uh, and the final chapter.

So, um, he’s, well-versed in this idea. Probably the ideal person to bring in on a project like

Craig: this. You’re right. That’s Jigsaw’s emo too. He’s trying to teach people a lesson. I had forgotten about that. I was just focused on the whole traps thing, but you’re right. That’s his Mo

Todd: yeah, that’s his demo. And that got me thinking actually, Craig, if we ever do run out of Thanksgiving stories, I guess based on that we could start doing the sauce series for Thanksgiving.

We could have a whole like eight years worth of saw movies. For Thanksgiving,

Craig: just prior to this CRO incident, we had seen patients in Katherine’s house making her an herbal tea, which of course is very homogenous, but Catherine is complaining about her life. In a totally low key way. Like all of us do not complaining about anything.

I wouldn’t say she’s, she’s searching for pity. She’s just kind of talking about how life is hard for her, because she’s a single mom and she really doesn’t have much money. And, um, her son’s a teenager and it’s getting harder to control him and, and she can’t even. Say too much to him. Cause she would be a hypocrite because she was wild when she was a kid too.

And so she’s not complaining about anything that we don’t all complain about all the time, but patients clearly is like pissed off about it.

Todd: I mean, sometimes

Craig: life, you know, just sucks. You have all of this. I mean you have shelter and all the food you could eat, it is quite

Todd: miraculous.

Craig: Ethan teaches us to appreciate because he knows what it means to have nothing at all.

Well, I am a glass half empty type, so good luck with me. Ethan changed everything for me.

Well for you too. And I get it. Like, I understand they’re not wrong. These, these pilgrims it’s wrong to murder and kill people, but they’re not wrong in that we do all kind of complain about things. And fail to recognize, uh, you know, how much we have  it’s true. We’re all guilty of it. The next time we see Catherine she’s dead and patience is like churning blood or something.

And, um, eventually Cody finds, uh, her boyfriend dead too. So that family is killed and that’s when we get. Back to the family and we stay with them pretty much the whole time. The only thing that we didn’t mention is at one point, Tate has gone out Berry picking with Ethan and Tatum. Ethan actually kind of have a positive relationship.

Like they like each other and they enjoy spending time with one another and they go out and they pick these berries and take those to grab some, to eat them. And Ethan grabs his hand and says, no, not those. Those are Jerusalem cherries. They’re highly poisonous. I don’t remember why they collected them in the first place.

I don’t know if it was just supposed to be decoration or what, but, you know, even in the moment, like it’s slapping you in the face, like, obviously this is going to be important later, so just wanted to bring that up. But then patients comes back to their house and says, Catherine went on a bender. Because she has had struggles with alcohol before, but she’s been clean for a while, but patient says she went on a bender and she took them with her and they’re gone.

Cody of course is very suspicious of this and goes to check on it. But then all these other pilgrims show up at the house and that’s when it becomes basically just a Pilgrim home invasion. That’s what it is for the rest of the time.

Todd: Well, they’ve colonized their home. Yeah. And, and yeah, it seems like a weird, I mean, like you said, by the, even by the end of the movie, we don’t even truly know the nature of these people, but it comes across as this weird cult type thing maybe led by Ethan.

But yeah, there are more pilgrims in the house and she goes into her dad’s study and her dad is in there talking with like a council of older pilgrims. They’re all smoking pipes. And he’s like, yeah, they’re going to help me rebuild the garage. I’m going to move my office out there. I’m not going to bother you guys anymore.

You know, which is kind of funny actually, ironically, that’s like the last thing his father needs is to get even more distant from his family by moving his office out to the garage. And they’re women in the, in the kitchen cooking up meals. But. Everybody’s very stern faced and very few people are talking.

In fact, almost nobody is talking and patients herself is just flat out creepy from the get-go.

Craig: She is,

Todd: her eyes are just, Oh God, she’s played by Elise Levis, Levis skew. And she’s been in quite a few things. I mean, I, I didn’t recognize her outright, but yeah. She’s been in a lot of horror movies, a lot of TV and some stuff like that, quite a resume behind her, but in this, and again, like we said, at the very beginning of this, they are so dead serious and she is so dead serious and her eyes are just so piercing.

She just looks like the sternest woman on the earth and nothing makes her happy and it’s creepy.

Craig: It is and juxtaposed with the fact that she too is very beautiful, but she’s so she she’s so stern and so puritanical, you know, and the way that she behaves and the way that she dresses and whatnot, but she is so chilling, like when she’s telling them.

About how Catherine ran away because she was on a bender or whatever she says in front of Cody and Anna, if only she was happy with what she had. She should be seen as a warning

Todd: that’s right.

Craig: Just it, it is very creepy. And the, the main girl Cody says to Anna, this doesn’t feel right. It doesn’t feel safe and she goes off to check on her boyfriend and then seeing.

All of the pilgrims, like moving things around her house and like hanging up like idols and weird things. Anna is done with it too. Eventually. She’s like, you know, this is too far. And she goes looking for her husband and she finds her husband and she says, I can’t find the kids. I can’t find Tate. So they go to look for Tate together, but they’re headed off.

By patients and Ethan and patient says, we’ve run out of some spice. Why don’t you go to the store to get some? And they, the parents say, uh, yeah, that’s a good idea. We’ll just grab the kids and, and it’ll be a family deal. And they’re like, no, the kids can stay here. And they’re like, well, where are they?

They’re safe. Okay. But where are they? They’re safe. And then all of the pilgrims like converge around them. And Ethan looks at, Anna says, you afraid of shit.

It’s just Thanksgiving.

why they didn’t put that line in the trailer. I we’ll never

Todd: God, two amazing lines of this movie. The other one we’re going to get to soon. I think

Craig: so good. But then it’s just kind of bat shit crazy from then on.

Todd: Yeah from then it’s it’s nuts. Um, I think the next thing that happens is they both wake up and they’re tight. Oh, they’re tied up in stocks, right in, uh, in the backyard.

They’ve got them in these old timey stocks in the backyard. And Anna says what I was thinking the whole time. She said, Won’t everybody else hear what’s going on. And Athens like, well, that’s the point or something. And, and that’s one of the goofy things about this movie is all this crazy stuff happens at this house.

And there’s not a single neighbor who apparently notices it or wakes up, or maybe they’re trying to make a comment here too. You know, it’s a super rich. Nobody cares, subdivision, whatever. So Ethan just gives him this long lecture about how they need to be thankful. And what about how he’s going to teach them patients that thank you.

Craig: You will Rue the day. You didn’t see what was right in front of you

through the day. I love it.

Todd: He’s whipping the dad and then, um, he gets a branding iron out with a B on it, and brand’s a big B and Anna’s back. Oh gosh, it’s just, it’s just intense.

Craig: I will say that this is one of the moments where I thought that they went overboard with the stylization and the. In the cinematography, like they tried to do weird things with like, I don’t even know  you mean the camera?

Like the weird closeups of the pilgrims, like laughing and stuff. I mean, if it were a dream sequence, Mm, maybe, but here, it just seemed a little over the top. Like, I don’t need that. Like the fact that they’re whipping and branding these people is scary enough. I don’t need the intense fish eye closeups of them.

Maniacally laughing.

Todd: Um,

Craig: yeah. Ruined it for me. It did call attention to itself. Yes.

Todd: And then the kids get back there. Right. And I think, um, Tate ends up running away and hiding where Cody goes, looking for Tate. She comes back, she comes through the house. She doesn’t see her parents in the backyard, but she sees the house was full of pilgrims.

And they have this knocking thing that they do this game that they play, where she’ll knock twice and he’ll run and hide. He’ll knock once. And so as they knock back and forth, she tries to find him. And so she uses this to find him hiding in the closet. And then the pilgrims start to come up the stairs and find Cody.

So she says, you stay here in the closet, just promise me, you won’t leave. And he’s like, okay. And so we don’t see Cody for awhile cause he’s stuck in a closet

Craig: and Cody goes downstairs and finds her parents in the stocks and gets them out. Um, like there’s nobody around at first, but then this huge guy who has only identified himself as the builder attacks, and there’s actually a really good fight scene where the mom, the dad and Cody fight the builder and they are like jumping on him like spider monkeys.

And he’s huge. So he just keeps. Throwing them off, but eventually they get him down on the ground and the dad picks up a big rock and like smashes his head. But he’s so big that it has very little effect on him. So you see them all like just real quick grabs something that they can bludge in him with and they do.

They just stand around and bludgeoned him to death. And when it’s all over, the dad says, can we just partner. As a family,

it was silly and stupid, but it was funny. And then there’s some more like dumb family bonding as they’re like planning on how they’re going to get in the house. And. Cody runs around to go in the front. I think, and the mom and dad are gonna climb in the window on a trellis and the mom gets in, but then when the dad gets up, um, he realizes that the pilgrims have been waiting and they actually have the mom, Ethan stabs him in the hand and then pushes them off the roof.

And then. Patients access him in the head and well, access him somewhere. And he’s dead now at this point, I didn’t know what I expected to happen after the, did we just murder as a family? I kind of thought that maybe they were all going to get through it and that it was going to be like, Oh, we survived this as a family initially.

My prediction. I turned to Alan and I said, here’s my prediction. Cody’s going to live. But both the parents are going to get killed and the pilgrims are going to take Tate with them when they go. That was my predict.

Todd: Interesting.

Craig: Not at all how it turns out,

but that’s what I thought. So I was a little bit surprised when the dad got killed here. I was too. And, and, you know, it remains pretty dark like Cody and Anna both get caught and bound up in chairs and, uh, patients scolds Anna for being so concerned with her image and they put, uh, Cody in a dunking chair.

Yeah, I kind of assume everybody knows what that is, but the Puritans used these to punish people, specifically women and women who were charged with witchcraft and whatever. And it’s just a big Seesaw basically. And there’s a chair on one end and they would dunk women under water. And often it would result in the woman’s death.

Um, but they’re doing this to Cody and when they would bring her up, she keeps saying, what do you want? And, uh, Ethan saying, Your gratitude. And he was giving me major Rutger, Hauer vibes. Oh

Todd: yeah. From the Hitcher.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but, but eventually she keeps saying, I I’m grateful. I’m grateful. I’m grateful.

And they let her out.

Todd: Well, I just need a break in here to say really quick that there’s some amazing cinematography during this moment where the camera is on her. It, and it follows her down into the water. And I mean, it doesn’t, you know, you wouldn’t know unless you’re into this or, you know, you know anything about photography or whatever it would be.

It’s very difficult to just go from out of the water, into the water and out of the water again, and for it to be so clear and so good as it was. And actually this was something, one of the, of the director was it was interviewed. And he said that was one of the scenes he was most proud of. And he was really proud of the fact that most of this movie, it was a lower budget film, obviously.

And almost everything in it was practical. He said pretty much the only thing we did was he raised some Palm trees in the backyard digitally, but, uh, you know, he said, especially that he had a pretty. A pretty talented crew from Blumhouse that could manage to put this particular scene together and get this photography right.

Was remarkable, uh, from a technical standpoint, really, really pretty good. And it’s, I think it’s kind of intense too, because at this point, because the dad’s been asked and by the way, I don’t, the rest of the family doesn’t know the dad’s been asked. Nope. But. Because the dad’s been asked now you realize, well, it’s not going to end up that way and this could go anyway.

So now the stakes are really high for us as we’re watching. And I thought it’s possible. They might kill off. Who’s the person who seems to be the central character in the show. So it was a good scene.

Craig: I thought so, too, at this point I was thinking that they might all die and that the pilgrims might just walk off into the sunset to do this again elsewhere.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I re I really wasn’t sure, but after the whole dunking chair thing, they say, we’ve given you a gift. It’s time to prepare the feast. And Tate is still around like hiding and watching. And so they start this feast and gosh, I don’t remember

Todd: taking it back down there. I don’t remember either. I remember that they’ve got the women preparing, they’re asking Anna to shuck corn and they’re asking Cody to smash the berries.

Craig: Right. Which is important. Right.

Todd: Which is very important. She’s smashing the berries and there’s kind of a up on those, those, you know, Jerusalem berries we saw earlier. So yeah. We knew something was brewing here, and then there must be a noise or something upstairs. I can’t remember because at some point, at some point patients goes upstairs and goes looking for Tatum.

Craig: Yeah. But at some point here, Cody, somehow, I guess, because her hands are free because they’ve got her working, she grabs an ice pick and stabs patients in the head

Todd: threw her hand into her head.

Craig: Yeah. And Anna like throws flour on the fire, which causes a distraction and they both run and Cody’s looking for tape that they, they immediately capture Anna again.

But then patients just pulls the pic out of her head and she’s fine. And we’re not saying like they tapped her on the head with it. Like it was stabbed a good four or five inches into her head and she pulls it out and she’s fine for a while. And she never did. Dies of that. Like what that’s. So again, I was like, what, at this point I’m like, Oh, well, are they ghosts?

Like, are they super natural? And in the end, I really still don’t know. No, because that makes no sense. It makes no sense that she could just be fine.

Todd: Absolutely not. I thought it was like a comedic thing. I, at first, when, you know, w after she pulls it off and says, I’m fine, I’m thinking, Oh, Hardy, har har, like this woman’s practically lobotomized.

Anyway, that’s her personality. Right. You know, gets an ice pick to the brain. It hardly makes a difference.

Craig: That’s so funny. That’s what Alan said too. He’s like, that’s how they do Labatt dummies.

They ended up getting them back. I mean, they, they capture everybody and they get everybody back and they get them back to the table and then they serve up on a silver platter, you know, the entree and they pull off the bell jar, you know, on top of it. And it’s there. Dad’s head.

Todd: It. I mean, we, you saw coming a mile away. Right. But also, cause he’s like, your father will, will provide for you this morning, this evening. And it’s so cute too, because you can kind of tell that it’s just. His head stuck up through the table was, yeah.

Craig: I mean, in the credits, they, they show like outtakes and you see him goofing around.

Todd: It’s pretty funny, but it’s, it’s supremely disturbing, you know, it really is.

Craig: Well, and they’re force feeding them. Like they’re trying to stick meat in their mouths and stuff. It is silly cinematography and it’s hilarious music. It’s like elementary school celebratory Thanksgiving.

Todd: Oh yeah. It’s kind of gospely sort of like a, almost like a hymn, right.

It comes in and out quite a few times. And I was a little surprised, you know, that, that dichotomy is interesting. I remember in Krampus getting some of that too, where you have your cheery Christmas hymns. Really dark things are happening and that’s always a little disturbing, but yeah, it was a really nice choice of music I thought

Craig: and, and all that’s going on.

And then all of a sudden, all of the pilgrims start choking and vomiting blood, and we see that Cody had put the poison berries into the sauce. She looks at Ethan and says, I hope you appreciate them.

Todd: Correct

Craig: then they’re going on. And like they’re all projectile vomiting and it’s so funny because we all know how this effect works. Like they’re putting their hands up by their face, obviously to hide the hose that is spewing blood.

Todd: Trauma level vomiting, blood it’s like fire hoses coming out of their mouth.

And it’s really funny. It’s but it’s a ton of blood also. Yeah.

Craig: And then, and Ethan are like trying to chase them around, but, um, Tate untitled, Cody, Ethan jumps out the window for some reason, patients and Anna have a fight and she uses her. Dad’s head

Todd: he’s her with her dad’s head.

Craig: She ends up stabbing her in the throat and Anna brands, Ethan, um, which is. Satisfying. And then I don’t remember. I think it’s Cody, but it could have been the mom, somebody says, why did you know it is Cody? She says, why did you do this? And Ethan says, isn’t this what you wished for?

Yes, happy Thanksgiving. And then he dies. And the camera shows that he has the wishbone in his hand. So just so just like Krampus, it’s like. She summoned this unwittingly and I don’t know, maybe they learned a lesson and then there are really funny credits without takes and really funny. Stills from outtakes.

Um, it’s funny. And I ultimately, when it was over, I just thought it was a fun ride. It was fun and interesting. It wasn’t amazing. It’s not going to win any awards, but it was entertaining and you know, we’ve looked and we’ve to be fair. We have found a couple of Thanksgiving movies that we’ve enjoyed talking about.

Not that they were good movies, but what was blood feast was that?

Todd: Well, blood rage still one of my favorite, one of my favorite episodes, actually I go back. Listen to that a lot. I love that.

Craig: That was a good one. There was another one where it was like a bunch of assholes were having like a friends giving, like on a ranch.

And then there was a serial killer who injected meth into his eyes. That one

Todd: who was body by Jake.

Craig: Those were both fun to talk about. But in terms of quality, this is really a more. Solid movie. And I think that it has a wider appeal as a higher quality film. Again, not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but fun and seasonal.

And I enjoyed it

Todd: and, you know, It was just dark enough also to, to really mess with your emotions a bit and to be disturbing. It wasn’t just all good. Ha ha funny pilgrims, come in, kill people Thanksgiving. Now you better be thankful. Right. You know, it, it, it was dark in twisted enough that. Yeah, I just, you know, it kind of bothered me afterwards and then I had to shake it off and go, come on Todd, it’s a stupid movie about Thanksgiving, real crimps coming in from beyond apparently or whatever, that little ambiguity at the end.

I really liked as well. That that really tied it up quite nicely. It was like a nice little cherry on top. I thought,

Craig: well, and it’s not a bad message. I mean, I think that it’s a good message to remind us, you know, be grateful for what you have real. I mean,

Todd: we’re, we’ll come in to murder you and your whole family.

Craig: I mean, it couldn’t be worse. Pilgrims could come murder your family, be grateful for what you have in there. Spirit of Thanksgiving. I am grateful for the things I have. I’m grateful to have roof over my head and a job that provides for me and, um, uh, somebody to share my life with who I love and dogs who I love and.

Great friends like you, who, uh, I can always turn to in times of need and you know, even simple little things like this podcast that, uh, you know, it really does bring me joy to talk to you every week and also to hear from other people around the world who listened to what we do and enjoy it. It blows my mind.

Um, and I am grateful for all of you listeners, thanks for, for supporting us. Uh, I never, in my wildest dreams thought that we would still be doing this years and years into it. Never thought we would, but here we are as much as Todd and I, and just enjoy doing this for ourselves. And I can only speak for myself.

I don’t think what we would still be doing it. If it weren’t. For those of you who reach out to us and talk to us, it it’s. It’s cool.

Todd: It is cool. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. You took all the words out of my mouth. Uh, I feel like a anticlimactic ending to this thing.

No, Greg, I’m thankful for you as well. Thankful for the opportunity to do this and also thankful for all the great things I have, especially at this time when you know, we have a lot to examine, we have a lot of trouble. And worry going on around the world, at least many of us still have things that we can hold on to that we’re thankful for despite the trials and tribulations we’re going through now.

So yeah, sometimes it takes a horror movie to remind you that.

Craig: Yep.

Todd: Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed it, please, in the spirit of the holiday, share it with a friend.

Reach out to us as Craig said, because we’re so thankful for your comments. You can find us on Facebook. You can just Google us and you’ll find our website, two guys.red, 40 nest.com where you can leave a comment, leave us a request. And, uh, we’ve got Christmas coming up really soon. So we’re getting ready to prepare a nice batch of Christmas horror movies for you as we always do.

So if you have some good ideas, some things that we haven’t done yet send those along to us and we’ll put them on the list until next time. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: with two guys and a chainsaw.

We continue our month on Shudder with something that just popped up out of the woodwork. Nodding heavily to Stranger Things and all the other similar movies we grew up with in the 80s, it took a sharp turn and ended up waaaaay darker than we expected. And kudos for that.

Summer of 84 (2018)

Episode 235, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: This week, we go back to the shutter, a service or a shutter exclusive film, I believe. Right. Or at least it was at one time.

Craig: Yeah. I, I don’t think, uh, I don’t think shutter made this movie, but I think that they. Currently have the exclusive rights to it.

Todd: All right. That’s what it is.

That’s how we get to see it anyway. And how you can see it too. If after our conversation today, you were so moved this film. Uh, Craig picked out this week called summer of 84. I never heard of it before. I don’t, I don’t have a subscription to shutter. I just share it. Yeah. And I’m not on there too often.

So, uh, but they’ve got a lot of good stuff on there. I feel like we should be getting money from them for as much as we’ve been promoting their service lately on our show. Uh, but, uh, this is a 2018 Canadian horror mystery film directed by three people Francoists and marred and Knuck whistle and Yuan Carl whistle, who haven’t actually done much, uh, before this have done a movie called turbo kid.

Or something and which

Craig: I’ve heard really good things about it’s on shutter too. And I haven’t watched it yet, but I’ve heard it’s really cool.

Todd: It’s also a horror movie.

Craig: Yeah. Well, I’ve heard it kind of described as like mad max with kids. Oh. And I think it’s, uh, like really violent and I don’t know, it’s something I want to check out eventually.

Todd: Okay. It did premiere, um, not turbo kid, but summer of 84 did premiere at the 2018 Sundance film festival. And did have a limited release in theaters in August two years ago. So, um, most of the critics seem to really like this movie and praise it. If you go on rotten tomatoes, I think it’s over 70% positive on that.

And it is clearly, if you can’t tell by the title, it’s clearly, um, It’s fan service for people who like eighties movies, right? It’s um, it’s your classic, uh, kids go on a summer adventure movie, akin to Goonies and, you know, monster squad and those kinds of things. It’s also very similar to the burbs except with kids.

Right. And the general premise is that. These, this group of kids, or particularly this one kid named Davey, uh, starts to believe that his neighbor across the street, who’s also a police officer, uh, happens to be a serial killer in their city. Uh, their town of Cape may. I believe it’s called Cape may. Oregon is what it’s supposed to be.

There’s a bunch of killings that have been going on. A lot of kids have been going missing and, and have been apparently for years. Uh, and, uh, he thinks that his neighbors, one of them, so. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this movie. Maybe I enjoyed it a little too much simply because it was directly feeding me, you know, little bits and snippets and pieces of 1984, kind of in the same vein as stranger things does, but is a little different.

So, um, yeah, I, I was really happy that you propose this film, Craig and I enjoyed watching it. Uh, had you seen it before? Had you heard of other things about it before?

Craig: No, I just came across it on shutter. You’re right. They, they should be paying us cause, uh,

Todd: I.

Craig: I th they, they should just be paying me personally.

Cause I’m telling everybody, I know you got to get on there cause there’s some really good stuff in there. Uh, exclusive and original content. I’ve actually just been really impressed by plus they’ve got tons of old horror and stuff too, but you’re right. This is, um, Definitely fan service for those of us who are fans of horror from the eighties, the vibes, you already mentioned like a monster squad, for sure.

The Goonies in a subject matter, very reminiscent of rear window. Um, and fright night, even, um, like. Some ETE vibes. Yeah. You know, it just, it’s a total throwback to our childhood and adolescence. These boys, um, hang out in a tree house, they ride their bikes everywhere. You know, they play neighborhood. Games for, for my neighborhood.

It was always capture the flag, but they play this game called manhunt, which is kind of seems like the same thing. There’s so much eighties here.

Todd: Actually.

Craig: It is, it is, but, but I loved it. And these guys, this group of guys, uh, some of them. Uh, you’ll recognize from other things. To be honest, it’s been a few weeks since I watched this, but, uh, one of the guys, I think it’s, uh, the guy named eats who’s played by Judah Lewis is that that’s the kid from the babysitter, right?

Yeah. Which

Todd: we also talked about. Yep. He’s the one. Yeah.

Craig: And I really liked him in that movie. And a couple of the other guys are kind of familiar too. There’s of course like the kind of nerdy one fair day. Woody is the heavyset one who also looks, he’s a great big guy. He there, these kids are supposed to be what, like.

13, no 15. Is that right? 15. Yeah. Yeah. It’s supposed to be 15. And for the most part, I mean, they look pretty young. I don’t know how old they are, uh, in real life, but, uh, they, they seem, the boys are good enough actors and have good enough chemistry that you really just buy them as friends. And as much as you know, they do go on kind of this mystery adventure.

There’s also just a lot of cute and sometimes. Tender moments between these guys too. And I was just really happy to go on this ride with them, which is fun, but ultimately becomes high stakes and gets pretty scary, uh, at points. So I, I do think that it falls. Uh, you know, it is mostly a mystery, but we definitely get some horror elements, especially in the last half hour or so.

Todd: Yeah, I would say the last half hour definitely takes a turn that it wasn’t a turn I was not expecting, but I think the tone. I was definitely not expecting it does get very, very dark, uh, and, and actually has a very bleak ending, which, uh, you know, as I was watching this movie, as we’ve talked about before, my wife is not particularly fond of, of scary movies as a, as your partner.

In this sense I was watching and thinking, Oh, this was something we could have sat down and watched together really enjoyed. And then by the time we got to the end of it, I thought, ah, Nash, she would have had

darn it. The last, the first our was, you know, quite charming and sweet and then the last 20 minutes or so, uh, it suddenly gets very dark. So, uh, this would have been something I think could have been rated. I don’t know what it is, Ray, is it PG 13 or is it actually are, probably are. It’s got a bunch of F bombs.

Craig: It’s a little dark. Yeah.

Todd: Who would have been PG 13 if it weren’t for how it ends? I think I would say so.

Craig: Well. And another thing that I thought was good about it is that it, it kept me guessing. I wasn’t sure. You know, you laid out the basic premise. It opens up with the main kid, Davey, uh, doing his paper route on his bike and.

Over that he’s got a monologue where he talks about even serial killers live next door to somebody. Um, the suburbs are where the craziest stuff happens. And like you said, these boys have gone missing. We don’t even really know that. At first he delivers a paper to his neighbor and his neighbor is a cop.

Uh, who’s. Last name is Mackie. That, which is what they always call them. I don’t even notice. First name is Wayne and, and this guy, he doesn’t look too particularly imposing. Uh, in fact, he’s kind of a chubby guy and he seems. Friendly, but he invites Davey in, uh, Davey gets his attention cause um, he needs paid.

He hasn’t paid for his paper subscription or whatever, and he’s like, Oh yeah, sorry, I’ll get you your money or whatever. But while you’re here, can you come in? And helped me lift something. And this is exactly what we were warned against in the APC, or get into a car with a stranger, never. We were warned about these things.

And then at the same time, our parents would send us door to door to sell things for school. And like, we would totally interact with strangers all the time.

Todd: It was a real dichotomy there. Yeah. It was a

Craig: total mixed message, which is in the eighties. So Davey goes in and the house seems pretty normal.

There’s a lot of family photos on the wall and he says something like big family hug. And he’s like, yeah, but I don’t really have any family around here, you know, which is good. Cause they’re not stopping by all the time. He’s like, but I need you to help me carry this thing down into the basement. I don’t even remember what it was.

Some big like cabinet or something. And they go down there and it’s just kind of creepy because it’s a basement and they’re alone. Um, and Davie notices a padlocked room down there and there’s another room that’s lit in all red. I am putting the finishing touches on my dark room. So I’m an amateur photographer.

I figured that this beast can help store some equipment. That’s cool. Um, I’m sort of an amateur videographer, so I get it.

Todd: It’s just like the old

Craig: man. I got, I remember when your parents would push you around the block in a stroller. Now look at you. How old are you? Anyway? 15. 15 is the perfect age. I wish I could just freeze it for you.

You know, and of course I know that this is a scary movie, so. Everything is suspect. Uh, and so that line made me pause, like, ah, well, that’s kinda creepy.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I thought that too, this guy’s played by rich Sommer who, uh, I don’t know if you recognize him from anything. I really enjoyed him as Harry Crane and madman, and he has this real personality.

The guy is actually quite good at comedy, but. He’s really good at just playing this nice kind of affable friendly everyday dude. And like you said, you feel like, because you’re watching a horror movie, you’re waiting, you’re looking for these clues and you’re suspect of everybody who you come across. And what their motivations might be, and right away, you’re kind of being set up for this guy to be a suspicious character in the movie.

But at the same time, you know, that’s the trope, right? So you’re always wondering, is this film going to subvert? My expectations? Is it toying with me? And I think this actor in this role does a very good job of riding that line so that you never really know whether he’s, uh, hiding something or whether he’s just this affable guy, but.

He is quite amiable to the kids, uh, and really friendly. And the interesting thing about it is that as the movie goes on, you really get the sense that this guy’s a kid at heart. There are a lot of these subtle clues, not so subtle clues actually. Of how he interacts with the neighborhood boys as a police officer and just out on his front porch, there’s a scene later where he’s wa he’s just sitting out on his porch, watching the kids across the street, playing ball.

And he brings out a cooler full of like, I dunno, ice pops or something that says, Hey, who wants one? And grab them. And he just sits there and smiles and you know, this is the kind of thing. And the con that w I think maybe. We’re overly sensitive to nowadays. Oh yeah. You know, single man likes kids and, you know, lives by himself and goes out of his way to give them candy and invite them over.

I think back then probably we were a little sensitive to it too. Our parents were, but not as much as, as we are now.

Craig: Well, and I think that kind of what. The movie is playing on his then. And even to an extent, now, you don’t suspect your neighbors. You know, it’s, it’s always somebody else, you know, it’s not just, it’s not the nice guy who lives next door.

That doesn’t make any sense. It’s somebody else. This happens to other people in other places. Of course, that’s not true, which is why. Uh, the kid says in the beginning, even serial killers live next door to somebody

Todd: in case you don’t know where this movie is going well. And also he’s got this history with the kids, right? I mean, flat out all the last time I saw you, you know, you were this high or I was helping your dad with something. So it’s not like he’s a new guy in town either. Right, right, right, right.

Craig: Yeah. He’s been there since they were little kids and a police officer and he’s a cop.

Right, exactly. But that night, the boys and not just our main group of boys, but like the whole neighborhood of boys are out playing this manhunt game. Night in the dark. Um, but Davey sees a curly haired boy in Mackey’s kitchen and then somebody like startles him and he looks away. And when he looks back, the kid’s not there anymore, but Davie’s into conspiracy theories.

Anyway, like he’s got his whole room is lined with newspapers, like crime stories. And then we get some cute set up, you know, the kids bike around to cruel summer, which, you know, is. Super eighties, total throwback to karate kid. We’re introduced to there’s another neighbor girl. Who’s a little older than them named Nikki, who they all have a kind of a crush on and she’s cute.

Pretty girl. Um, but then the serial killer story breaks. And apparently this has been going on for a while, but the police have now gotten a letter from somebody who has said they are doing this and they signed it. The Cape may Slayer and they S on the profile, they say it’s probably a white male.

Probably between 30 and 40, probably living alone targets boys 14 to 15 years old. And eventually there’s a thing where one of their friends from the neighborhood Sammy and his family have been gone for a while, but their car is still there and they think that’s weird. But then when it. Really amps up is when Davey sees the curly haired boy that he had seen in Mackey’s house.

He sees him on. A milk carton. And so at that point, he is convinced that Mackey’s the Cape may Slayer, even though his friends are initially skeptical, he says, no, that’s it that’s it. Nobody would ever suspect a cop. And so that’s when they basically start spying on him and they track his schedule and check out his mail and his garbage and, and all kinds of things.

And yeah, I mean, that’s a good one. Part of it is just them kind of watching him.

Todd: Yeah. It’s just so classic for these kinds of movies. And as you said before, the movies just dripping with references to eighties. And so what we’re getting for this first half hour is this. Pretty long protracted setup, uh, or we’re introduced to these characters and these kids are meeting and they’re meeting in a tree house.

I mean, this is all quite classic, but like you said, it’s really more about getting to know these boys and their relationships. And as you get to know the boys. And again, one thing I appreciate about this movie was it wasn’t really thrown in our face. And a lot of it was just kind of offhand, but all of them, almost all of them have a little bit of problems at home eats is the kid who’s got, you know, who’s got kind of where the slacks close and longer hair and listens to like heavy metal or care bands or whatever.

And he is clearly has some issues with his parents fighting at home. And, uh, the, the overweight kid you mentioned earlier, Woody, he’s got some problems at home with his mom. His mom is, um, always depressed and upset. Was she divorced? What was the deal with her? Was she,

Craig: I don’t think no, but I actually really liked the way that the movie handled this.

I thought that it was kind of surprisingly sophisticated in some way. Like usually. You know, these kids, like in the Goonies, you know, they all have this problem where their neighborhood is getting bought out, you know, by the rich people in town or whatever. Uh, but here, these kids kind of have real issues.

Now, Faraday the dorky, when it seems like his family is very normal and Davy’s family is, is pretty normal. But, uh, yeah, like you said, eats, it seems like he comes from maybe. I dunno, an abusive household, but definitely a lot of, um, tension there. You hear his parents screaming at each other from inside his brothers, also kind of an older loser, but the end and everybody they’re super horny all the time.

They’re all the time looking at Nudie magazines and like humping on each other and stuff, which is. Funny. Yeah.

Todd: Cracking jokes about getting tail and stuff. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. Well, and, and, and looking at the neighbor girl through binoculars out the window, and it’s all very classic, uh, 80 stuff, but eats is all the time making sexual remarks about.

Woody’s mom. And every time he does what he’s like, dude, don’t talk about my mom like that. It’s not funny. And you know, we used to razz each other like that when we were kids. Um,

Todd: yeah. Mom jokes with, just to think.

Craig: Yeah. You see just in a very brief moment, you know what he asks? I think, yes, Davey, if he can spend the night.

And Davy says, yeah. And what he goes home to get his stuff. And his mom is there and she’s, I think a waitress she’s in some sort of uniform and she’s just sitting on the couch, crying and drinking and smoking and he lays her down and covers her up and says, it’s going to be okay. And she just looks at him and says, you’re so good.

And it was sad. Like you just kind of get the sense that this woman has problems, whether she’s struggling with. Divorce or if her husband left or if she’s just struggling with being a single mom or whatever it is she’s not doing well. And you see why eats makes all these sexual jokes about her because she’s beautiful.

She’s, she’s young and gorgeous. Um, but you also see why would he would take not offense, but why it would bother him because his, his mom has problems. It’s just a little bit more true to life. Then your typical eighties fare, maybe that’s more of a 20, 20 sensibility in the filmmaking. I don’t know, but I liked it.

Todd: I didn’t, well, it also kind of works well with the theme, right? I mean, a lot of these movies, the suburbs was this idyllic place where all the crazy adventures happen, but everything kind of ends up. Okay. And kids are having fun and playing outside, not to say that, you know, there isn’t, haven’t been conflict in those eighties movies.

I mean, you know, the karate kid and. But in general, you know, that tended to be the feel of the movies and of the areas that kind of came before it, you know, Dennis, the menace and Lassie and stuff like the suburbs are just this nice, fun, happy place. And so from the beginning monologue, and then, like you said, very sophisticated and subtly introducing these problems and showing you that all these kids, they have other considerations besides their adventure real life, crap that they have to deal with.

That people from the suburbs and who live out in these nice manicured lawns are not immune to. And I think that just plays in well with the theme of the movie. It’s cute because he’s looking out the window at this girl across the street, whose name is Nikki? And like you said, she’s made, she’s like a couple years older.

I think she’s probably about to graduate. About how she’s going to go to Stanford.

Craig: She used to babysit him when he was younger. So they’ve known each other for a long time.

Todd: Yeah. So they have this little history and that kind of talk about how cute she is. And he looks out the window at her and at one point she looks back at him and she sees that he’s looking at her, then there’s this really great moment.

A little later, when. She comes over. Uh, this is the time actually, when you said that, um, that Woody was supposed to come over to his house, he’s waiting for Woody to come over. And when he opens the door, he thinks it’s Woody, but it’s her. And she just walks inside and his parents happened to be gone and she helps herself to a soda from the.

Fridge and she’s being very suggestive and she goes upstairs to his bedroom and picks up the binoculars and looks out the window.

Craig: Huh? Better view of my room than I thought. I’ve never seen you naked. It’s too bad. I’ve got a great body.

Yes. She’s being very flirty with him, which I didn’t know what. To think at first, in fact, the first time I watched this movie, I’ve seen it twice. I watched it again for the podcast, but the first time I watched it, I didn’t know what was going on with her. And in fact, I thought she was a little shady and I kept questioning.

I maybe even thought that she was, was

Todd: somehow on it. Yeah, me too.

Craig: I say in on it, like, I didn’t know exactly what was going on. But if there was something going on, I thought maybe she was in on it. Cause she always kind of pops up at surprising times too.

Todd: Yeah. Well, I had the same suspicions. I mean, I thought his parents were in on it at some point.

Because there are little things that happen there too, you know, where they kind of allude to the past or the neighbor across the street that the police officer we were talking about was up in their attic, helping them move things. So there’s some times when his parents exchanged looks with each other, that you’re kind of wondering what’s going on.

There’s a little bit, I think of suspicion cast on everybody, or maybe it’s just the paranoia of me watching a movie like this and expecting a twist. Right. But, yeah, she’s really, it’s really hard to know what she’s getting at here with him in the bedroom,

Craig: as it turns out, she’s just kind of toying with him because they do have this previous relationship.

Um, and ultimately they really. Become and remain friendly.  and that part, there’s a part of me. That’s like, that’s not believable. The pretty 17 year old girl is not going to be chummy with this geeky little 15 year old boy. But then I was like, yeah, they’ve known each other for a really long time. They have a history.

And so I do believe,

Todd: I think the circumstances were what really preempted that. I mean, when she later, uh, when she talks to him, she opens up and says, we’re going to be moving.

Craig: Because her parents are getting a divorce.

Todd: And then, you know, again, this is another like

Craig: eighties. I was just going to say, and we had heard that because, um, Davey’s parents had been talking about it and the mom had said something like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea.

They were even having problems and the dads as well. That’s why curtains were invented, which again goes back to that. What you had said before, kind of the whole theme. You never really know what goes on behind closed doors. Yes. The suburbs are kind of this facade of normalcy and safety, but you really never know what’s going on behind closed doors and, and her experience mirrors that too.

And ultimately. She is reaching out to Davey because she just needs somebody to talk to like, to kind of work through this stuff. And they do periodically throughout the movie. They just get together and hang out and talk. And it’s really sweet.

Todd: Yeah. It’s sweet. And they don’t kiss or anything. I mean, it’s just, uh, like you said, it’s, it’s like her about to go through all these changes and I thought this was very.

Eighties. I mean, I don’t mean to downplay divorce. Divorce can be very tough on children, but I think, especially in the eighties, we felt like this was kind of like the end of the world, or at least the media was telling us that this does irreparable damage to your children and your families. And I know that, you know, it was a scandalous thing at that time, the two people would get divorced and this was a theme, you know?

So this being a throwback movie that really kinds of fits. But what do you do? You know what I mean? She’s about to go off to college. She’s going to go to Stanford. They’re going to move. Her parents are getting a divorce. So she goes back to retreats back to the nostalgia of when she remembered better times.

And that was her friend across the street. So I felt like the motivation was quite good. But as you said, you don’t know this right away. So you’re very suspicious and wondering why is she so eager to come over and talk with him and be alone in his room and kind of, why are they sneaking around? Of course his friends are totally.

Impressed by it. That’s kind of cool for him that doesn’t always happen.

Craig: It’s cute. You know, one of the early times. That they’re talking, he confides in her what they’re doing and she tells him, Oh, you’re crazy. You know, he’s a cop. And, and David’s like, yeah, but, and she’s like, no, he’s friends with my dad.

Like, you know, like again, it’s that we know this guy and she encourages him. To to stop. She’s like, you’re going to get caught. You’re going to get in trouble. And he says, no, I won’t. And they don’t quit. Like I said, they, they go through his mail, they go through his trash, but they never really find anything.

Um, eventually they go back to that house where their friend lives, but who he’s been gone for awhile, they break in and they look around and there’s a jump scare. Cause Nicky is in there. And again, I was like, what is she doing in there? It seems super shady, but she just. They’re on vacation. They rented a camper.

I’m taking care of their cats, which is totally believable. Uh, I was still suspicious, but totally believable, but it was also cute in that moment because Nikki and Davey are talking and the friends are surprised because they thought that he was bullshitting them, that he had been spending time with her.

And they’re like, Whoa, it’s true. And I thought it was adorable. She totally. Plays it up for him. Like she says something like, he’s more of a man than you guys will ever be. And she gives him a little kiss on the cheek and walks around and they all, you know, these little teenage boys guide to have this.

Oh yeah. Like they’re giving each other high-fives and she’s just standing around the corner smiling. And I just thought how cute, but having seen the babysitter. Okay. It gave me that vibe too. Is she going to sacrifice him? Devil later, I don’t

Todd: sorry. Spoiler alert to anyone who hasn’t seen a babysitter yet. I think this is the thing that, um, it wasn’t maddening to me because I was just in the right frame of mind to watch this movie and to go through this with them. But I will admit, and I think some of the criticism that some people have said online about it is it is a little bit.

Slow the buildups a little slow. And it’s true because the guys go over and they S they go through his trash. They really don’t find anything. You know, they follow his car, they see that he’s getting shovels and dirt, but they don’t really find anything. They go to the neighbor’s house. They don’t really find anything, you know?

Yeah.

Craig: So it’s just a lot to walkie talkie outside his window. They don’t really

Todd: find it. He’s like, Oh, you know, he’s got some, he’s digging up his garden. The whole thing. He’s buying tons and tons of dirt, apparently, and a pickax and a shovel. And they’re wondering, they’re figuring he’s bearing bodies in his backyard.

Cause he’s building a garden back there, but it’s clearly a shitty garden. Uh, and they climb up to plant the walkie-talkie like you said, but that kind of gets. Oiled and, and, and he sees them outside the window. Like, there’s a kind of a scare where they’re creeping around looking at his window. And one of them climbs the trellis up to the, his bedroom window where they’re going to try to plant this cheap ass GI Joe walkie talkie.

And, uh, he’s up there with like, Bleach and gloves and cleaning supplies and things. And then

Craig: it looks like he has blood on his shirt.

Todd: Yeah. And he kind of goes down and they say, Oh, he’s going to the basement. And the other kid runs down to the basement on the outside of course, and sees that the windows are blacked over.

And then at that moment, they’re looking in the windows and boom, you know, he sees Davey through the window and Davey runs off and their whole thing is like, look, if we get caught, we’re just going to say we were playing manhunt. And so that’s, you know, excusable or whatever. So Davy, uh, realizes that he has left the walkie-talkie there, uh, that they didn’t make it up to the window, but it was stuck in the trellis.

So he goes back over and of course the neighbor confronts him,

Craig: baby. Don’t say scared the hell out of me last night. Uh, yeah. Yeah, we were, um, Sorry about that. Just you’re just playing manhunt and I didn’t expect you there. No, I got a lot of good hiding spots for manhunt. Yeah. You’re you’re, it’s full of them because he didn’t see me come in either though.

So what’s up. Wait, let me guess, Oh, your money. Uh, yeah, I’m ready

Todd: for you. This time.

Craig: Run back.

Todd: Davey notices, the walkie talkie there, and Mackie looks at Davey and Davies walkie-talkie that he has on his belt kind of goes off and he looks down at, and he says, Oh, are you guys playing with, with, with that walkie talkie?

You know, it’s kinda cheap. It doesn’t get a good range. I’ve got. Some awesome. Walkie-talkies inside, obviously they’re cop radios and he said, uh, they pick up everything you could. You’re welcome to use them if you want.

Craig: And he, yeah, just come inside with me and I’ll get them

Todd: four and two. Still very cautious.

He’s like, nah, I’m not going to go inside. No, that’s okay. Now maybe later is like, all right, well, whenever you want to just go. And so, you know, he leaves and, uh, and still at this point, you’re not sure, but you’re kind of wondering how is this neighbor? Is he, is he real? Is he not

Craig: stuff, you know, everything that’s going on could have a rational explanation.

No, the guy gardens. Yeah. There’s a big mound of dirt in his garden. It could be a grave. It could just be a garden that night after the second. Meeting, um, Davey is up looking through his window with his binoculars and across the way he sees Mackey looking back at him through binoculars, which freaks them out.

But whatever, dude, you’re looking at him, why, why shouldn’t he be looking out his window in the monoculars? Right. Um, but it is suspenseful. It’s creepy. Cause we don’t know, but he tells the, his friends look they’re they’re onto us. And so they set up this plan where fair day and Woody follow Mackey heat.

They know that he goes jogging every night at like 1130, um, and then eats and Davey while he’s gone, they dig up his garden, but they don’t find anything fair and Woody follow him. On foot and see that he has this storage unit and it’s got an, uh, a car in it, a Volkswagen in it, which I read was the same model that was Ted Bundy’s car, but trivia.

Um, and like he, he jogs there, but then he leaves in the Volkswagen. They see that he’s got a bunch of dirt and pickaxes and stuff in there when eats and Davey can’t find anything in the ground, they break into his. Gardening shed and Davy finds the missing boys shirt with blood on it. The, the boys that had followed Mackey report that he had sodium hydroxide in his storage unit and they looked that up and they said that it’s used for breaking down organic tissue.

Uh, and then it’s often used to dissolve roadkill. So now they actually have some evidence and Davy says, all right, guys, It’s time to tell my parents.

Todd: I was not expecting this by the way,

Craig: I wasn’t either, but he’s right. It is time to tell your parents

Todd: kind of thing they’re supposed to do in these movies.

And they never do. They never go to the police. They never tell their parents or they’ll go to the police, but the police completely make fun of them. But, uh, in this case, yeah. They tell the parents and the parents are like, what are you? Are you, are you talking about immediately? They dismiss it. And they say, this is crazy.

And you’ve been sneaking around and you’ve been digging up his garden and you’ve been stealing his stuff. And dad says, you’re going to go over there and apologize right now. And they all have to go across the street. And his dad knocks on the door and Mackey comes to the door and dad makes him apologize.

Just reveals everything that they did. And he doesn’t even know everything that they did to them. Right. Like, uh, digging up the garden and

Craig: whatnot. If he does, he plays dumb.

Todd: Yeah, exactly.

Craig: But, but again, so nice about it. He’s like, ah, I get it. He’s like, you know, I was into conspiracies when I was a kid too.

He’s like, it gets boring in the suburbs in the summer. You gotta have something to do ministry, you know? And he’s like no hard feelings, no big deal. And the kid’s like, well, but I saw this kid in your house. He’s like, Oh, that was my nephew. He was here for a visit. Uh, come on in, we’ll call him. He’ll tell you.

And they’re like, No. It’s okay. He’s basically like, look, it’s totally fine. It’s no big deal. I get it. No big deal, but David’s dad is like, well, They’re going to fix everything that they broke. They’re going to fix your garden and Davey’s grounded for the rest of the summer. And then there’s a little bit like Davey talks to Nikki again.

And she realizes that he’s got caught and she’s like, see, I told you that he’s like, well, but if I’m right, who’s going to stop him. And then I think maybe one of my favorite scenes, one of the most tense scenes. Um, daddy’s home alone. I assume his parents are at work, eh, cause it’s during the day, the morning I think, and there’s a knock on the door and it’s Mackey and he’s like, look, I just wanted to stop by and say, there’s no hard feelings.

I don’t want there to be any tension between us. And he’s like, can I come in? It’s like, No,

but he’s like, listen, everything’s cool. You don’t have to be worried about anything. I promise you, I’m going to do everything that I can to catch this bastard. And he says, is there anything that I can do to make you feel better? And Davy’s like, Well, you said before that you would call your nephew, could you call him now?

And he’s like, yeah. And David’s like, okay, hold on here. I’m going to go get the phone. Well, while he goes and gets the phone, Mackey comes in the house, which I thought. It was scary.

Todd: It specifically said, you know, no, no, no, it’s okay. I’ll get the phone for you. It’s got a long cord. And he’s like, all right, right.

Takes a few steps in anyway, very scary.

Craig: And he’s looking around and Davey sees that he’s come in. So he grabs the knife and he holds it behind his back, but he brings the phone to Mackey and Mackie dials it. And he’s like, they’re in they’re in Ohio or something. I don’t know. He calls the number and it rings and rings and rings.

He’s like, Hmm. Weird. They must not be home. If you want to come over later, we can try again later and David’s like, no, it’s cool. And then Mackey leaves and Davey is so smart. I never would have thought of this. Uh, he goes back to the phone and he dials the operator and he says, can you tell me what the last number was that was dialed from this line?

And she does the operator does. And he writes it down on a pad of phone numbers. That that’s hanging on the refrigerator and he looks, and they have a list of all of their neighbor’s phone numbers, which we did in the eighties. And. It’s Mackey’s number Mackey, head dialed his own number. So at this point, I thought, well, he’s obviously right.

You know, um, it must be him, but that nut. And so David calls all of his friends over that night and he’s like, look, guys, it really is him. And they’re like, you know, We’ve already gotten in trouble for this. I don’t, they don’t, they’re really reluctant. They don’t want to do it anymore. And then the mom calls Davey down because there’s a press conference and they say that they have captured the Cape may Slayer or whatever.

And guess who the cop, the arresting officer was Mackie and Davey, you know, he tells his friends look, it’s it’s, it’s not true. It’s him. And they don’t believe him, but they agree to help. And so. While everybody else goes to this big Bay festival, which is apparently a big thing for their town. Fair is there with his parents.

So he watches Mackie eats, sits at a bus stop, I guess, as a lookout in case Mackey comes home. I wasn’t really sure about that. I was afraid at this point. I’m still second guessing. I think it’s gotta be Mackey, but then I’m like, well, what if it isn’t because we’ve already seen, we didn’t mention, we’ve already seen one teenage boy, get.

Swiped off the street. Right. And so I was really worried that eats was going to get kidnapped, but Woody and Davey break into Mackey’s house with, uh, Davy’s dad’s video camera. Davey’s dad is a, uh, like a news camera man. And Nikki just happens to pop up and she’s there too. And so looking around in his house, meanwhile, Faraday sees that.

Mackey has been helping these other cops do this big garden in the park for the Bay festival. And he’s like, Oh, well that explains everything that explains all the dirty explains all the tools. And so he calls Davian on the walkie-talkie and says you were wrong. Um, I’ll explain it later, but you’re wrong.

We’re, we’re calling it all off, but Davey is still convinced. So they break into the basement and it’s spooky down there. Uh, and th they, they. Break into the padlocked room and it looks like a kid’s room bedroom.

Todd: Yeah. It’s so weird.

Craig: And, and not just a kid’s bedroom, but like, A kid’s bedroom from the past.

Now I’m guessing you mentioned earlier and I had never really thought about it until you said it, but that Mackie seems to be kind of like a kid at heart. And I think you’re right. I think that’s kind of what the psychosis is here. I think that he’s clinging to that somehow, which is why he still has his room set up.

Like it. Was before or whatever, but there’s nothing, all that weird about it. I mean, it’s just a bedroom. Um, but then they notice another door. They open it up and in there they find pictures of the missing kid and then they find a body being dissolved in the tub and then

Todd: okay.

Craig: An arm reaches out and grabs one of them.

And it’s the kid that we saw get swiped off the street. So without question, it’s first sure. Mackey, um, and they all run upstairs and before they run out. They look at the pictures on the wall that we had seen earlier, and they realized that it’s not pictures of Mackey’s family. It’s pictures of all of his victims.

And Davey sees a picture of his family there. So it seems pretty apparent that Mackey was grooming Davey and Davey was probably going to be next. Well, they go, they go to the police and the police. The, they have all the evidence and they have it all on tape. We never see that kid again, but obviously that kid was still alive.

He could tell them what happened. So they set out to arrest Mackie that they can’t find him. And this is where things. Not necessarily took a surprising turn, but I was surprised at how quickly and how dark it got, because Mackey who has been this affable kind of guy, shady, suspicious, but friendly. All of a sudden we see his true colors and it’s scary.

Todd: It is, and this is the point where the movie really subverts your expectations that he goes to the police. He’s got the evidence, the police completely believe him. They go to find him he’s gone. Um, but the police chief says to his parents, you should be proud of your son. He’s a hero. If he hadn’t been down there, this kid would, would have been dead.

He just gets everything. That he wants. And then the next scene is that the guy’s still gone. Davey is at home and he looks out his window and the cops are across the street, searching the house. Okay.

Craig: And what are you spending the night?

Todd: Yeah. What are you spending the night? And the dad just looks in there and he says, all right, well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna take good care of you guys.

We’re gonna keep a watch out for him. I’m sure they’ll find him. It’s going to be fine. And he leaves. Yeah. And, uh, Davey looks out the window and Mackie and Woody comes over and he says, do you think they’ll catch him? And Davy says, there’s nowhere left to hide. It’s over. And I’m like, Nope, because there’s still about 15 minutes left in this movie.

Yes. Definitely not over. And sure enough. As they’re sleeping, the camera creeps around through the hallway and the attic opens up. And, uh, it’s one of those attic doors where the ladder drops down and these legs come down the ladder and very quietly creep into his room. And, uh, Davey gets chloroforms. And when he wakes up, he and Woody are in the backseat of a car police car and they don’t know where they are and they wake up and Davey is able to untie Woody’s.

Bonds. And they’re able to kind of get free. And at that time, somebody starts smashing the window of the car, opens the window of the car. Uh, and of course, Mackey is there terrorizing them, S jumps at them through the window and they run out the door into the woods and he’s on the speaker saying, okay, you know, you guys want to play man hunt.

Now we’re going to play man hunt for real. And, uh, they start tearing off through the woods only. They can’t find a road or anything. They come to water and then they turn and they come to water again and they say, Oh my God, we’re on the Island. We’re on the Island in the middle of the Bay or whatever. So this guy comes running after them and pursuing them.

Davey is up against a tree and, uh, And Mackey cuts his, his what’s that called the heel

Craig: Achilles tendon. Yeah, just, I mean, while they’re being chased, they come into this kind of marshy area and they really see all these bones. This is clearly where Mackey has been, uh, disposing of his victims and they’re all dissolved and nasty and gross.

Todd: Yeah. He’s not been too subtle about it. Unfortunately, he should be a little deeper,

Craig: you know, they’re running around. They’re just in there. Socks, you know, they were in bed he’s nearby and what he says, I can’t die tonight. David, my mom and, uh, David says you’re not going to die tonight. And Davey takes off on his own and taunts, um, Mackey so that he will follow him.

And he does, uh, Mackey does follow him. But like you said, he finally catches up to him, surprises him from the back and cut his Achilles tendon that never heals. I. Was like, that’s the first thing I thought, like, I don’t know, maybe in 2020, there are things that they can do to repair that. But as far as I know, like if you’re a tendon, Achilles tendon is severed, it’s very difficult to repair and you’re immediately hobbled.

Like you cannot walk on that leg, uh, if, if that happens, but he doesn’t kill. Davey right away. Instead he heads back towards the car. Um,

Todd: Woody

Craig: Woody gets back to the car and is kind of standing there, looking around and Mackey attacks him from the back and slit his throat. And I was so upset. So

Todd: cream really upsetting this, this, and the way it was shot in everything.

I mean, first of all, this is the affable likable, nice overweight kid. Who’s got the problems at home with his mom. I did not expect him to die in this movie.

Craig: No, he’s also been the one who has been the most loyal today mean throughout. Whereas the others were kind of like, eh, we don’t really want to what he was always there.

Like, you’re my best friend. I’m always going to have your back. And, um, and I just didn’t think it was going to happen. And you know, like his poor, sad mom, like

Todd: shot is so cruel. I mean, it’s, we’re on the ground with him. He’s facing the camera and you don’t even see Mackey. You just see him holding up his head and he just takes that knife across his throat.

And starts to just basically bleed them out like a pig. And this is all in one unbroken take that we see from beginning to end. It’s not glamorous at all. It’s it’s horrifying, horrifying. And this, I mean, this is what I was like, Oh my God. I could not believe the movie was going to get this dark. And

Craig: I couldn’t either.

I was really surprised.

Todd: Yeah. Um,

Craig: sad. But on the other hand, kind of like, you know, what good for you for going for it? I mean, that’s how bad this guy is. Right? Yeah. And I also thought that it was so creepy. Davey comes back and finds what he’s body and then Mackie grabs Davie, and throws him up against the car.

All you had to do was leave me alone. Because you’re a God damn fault

you stole my life

to be sorry.

Do you want to spend some time thinking about me? I want you to keep thinking about me.

I am going to do, when I come back for you,

I am going to come back for you. After you spent your wife.

Single day.

And so he just leaves him. Yeah. And Davey crawls along the street until he gets picked up, um, a man just finds him in the road and then Davey has his final monologue, which calls back to the first monologue. And he says, the suburbs are where the craziest stuff happens. People hardly ever let you know who they really are.

Even serial killers live next door to somebody. And we’re also kind of seeing, like, it looks like. Eats his family is maybe moving or something, right.

Todd: Woody’s house is for sale. Yeah,

Craig: he’s doing his, um, paper ride on his bike again, but he’s got this big brace on his, uh, ankle, which I assume he’ll probably have to wear for the rest of his life.

And so again, it hits back at that theme of you never know what’s going on. Behind closed doors. And I think that it really establishes that theme really well, but I also thought that the ending was so good because Mackey’s punishment of Davey. He’s right. It’s worse than killing him. My opinion, you know, cause that kid now is going to have to live the rest of his life, knowing.

That, that guy is out there somewhere and that he’s going to come back eventually. And when you think about that, how could you ever really get close to anybody when you would know that you were. Putting them in imminent danger. I mean that just fuck that kid’s whole life. And

Todd: the movie is barrage of depression.

I mean, as he’s going through his paper route, he passes Woody’s house, which is, you know, for sale. Nikki passes by in the car, waving goodbye. She’s moving away. Eats and Faraday are coming out and they have trashed a tree house and they’re throwing the pieces of the tree house down. That’s God. It’s like, you know, their childhood is done.

They’re not even looking at them. It’s like, they’re pissed at him. And then, you know, Mackey’s house has got the police tape over it. Uh, and then he opens up the newspaper and sees the headline, which basically says the killer is still at large, all over this monologue. And that’s the way the fricking movie ends.

It’s at a point where you, you feel guilty for having had fun with this movie. Yeah, it took such a sharp left turn and you’re like, Oh, this is this fun summer kids, adventure film, and the bad guy’s going to get it. And at the end of the day, you’re just struck with reality. Like, Nope, guess what? Most of the time bad guy gets away.

All kinds of crazy horrible shit happens in the suburbs and it stays crazy and horrible and never gets resolved and, uh, destroys homes and lives and families. And there you go. Credits. I just couldn’t believe the thematic one 80, the trick that had been pulled on me, uh, by the end of the movie, it was unbelievable.

Super dark and just left an icky feeling in my stomach.

Craig: Yes, it did. But also I found, okay, so all of the stuff leading up to it, I thought it was fun and I enjoyed it and I, regardless of how it turned out, I think, you know, I kind of expected. There would be a showdown, but then Mackie would probably get killed or get caught or something.

That’s what I was expecting. So if subverted my expectations and ultimately, even though it is really dark, and even though it is pretty depressing at the end, I was like, dang. I, I thought. They, they really surprised me there and I’m impressed. I’m impressed. They subverted my pit, my expectations in that way.

And I actually think that it’s a strength of the movie, that it doesn’t do what you expect it to do. Um, and I think that a lot of that comes from the, the actor who plays, Mackey his performance. I just think he does a great job in this. The only other thing I’ve ever seen him in, you mentioned madman. Um, he was in.

The Netflix series glow, um, and played a totally different character and even looked completely different. You know, glow was happening around the same time as this, but in that show he’s much leaner and he plays. This pretty boy, rich boy, who’s, you know, funds this women’s wrestling league or whatever. Um, and I really liked him in that, but he’s dope being goofy in that.

And here he’s a completely different character. Um, and he does such a good job of playing that facade and then allowing us to see his crazy at the end. I don’t know. I just have to say overall, I thought it was a really good movie. It was a surprise. I didn’t know anything about it. It was just, and this has happened to me with several movies on shutter, which is another plug for it.

You know, you can just look around and you’ll find these things that you’ve never heard of. Both old and new. I have watched several shutter exclusives and shutter originals that have been made in the past couple of years. And I’ve just been really impressed. And I’m glad that there’s a place for these kinds of movies because they typically don’t get.

Celebrated too much in the mainstream. So I’m really glad that there’s, you know, that AMC or whoever puts all this together. These are clearly people that, that like horror movies, the way that we like horror movies and there’s good quality stuff there. And I think that this is a quality movie. It’s well-made it’s well written.

It’s well active. I, I don’t really have much criticism of it at all.

Todd: Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining about the ending. I I’m. I think the ending is great. Uh, you need something different, you know, we, we wanted something that’s just not going to be a carbon copy of those other films we had seen before.

And the fact that this got such an emotional reaction for me. And I really like. The theme. And shall we say it’s, it’s very apropos for today as well. I, I hate to dive into this territory, but you know, we’re at a time when the world isn’t such a great place to be in. And a lot of people like to look back and say, Oh, do you remember the good old days?

Like, you know, back when I was a kid in the eighties, we didn’t have any of these problems. People were nice to each other. There wasn’t this stuff, nothing bad ever happened. Right. But. No, actually things weren’t necessarily better before things like this were always happening. And despite, you know, the feel good movies of that time.

We had a lot of issues. So I felt like being true to life was good. I felt like it was making a little bit of a point that way. It was a great update in a way of that formula. You know, you can take this formula and you can follow it, but then kind of say something new with it. And I feel like that’s what this movie did.

Thematically. So I, and again, hit me at a very gut visceral level. I love these kids. I love spending time with them and it just destroyed me to see one of the nicest kids in the group get brutally murdered right in front of me. And the rest of them are just going to go their own, their own ways, I think, from here on out, and this is going to scar them for the rest of their lives.

I mean, I don’t want, I don’t wish that on anyone, but you know, it as a dramatic thing as a movie that I’m going to be thinking about for awhile, uh, it was very, very effective. So I feel like we need to package this episode up and send it to shutter. Maybe we’d get them to sponsor the show. They,

Craig: they do have shutter exclusive podcast to somebody.

Maybe we need to get on

Todd: somebody, write some notes, a petition or something for that. All right. Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend and share it with shutter. You can tell them and all your friends that you can find as a two guys that read 40 net.com.

We’re online. Just search us two guys in a chainsaw, find us on Facebook, find us on Twitter. Shoot us a note there, give us some requests. We love to hear from you, what you thought of this movie. And this episode, if we see your request, we keep a nice long list and we’ll be sure to get to it sometime in the near future until that time I’ve taught.

And I’m Craig with two guys and a chainsaw.

A horror “anthology” unlike any we have ever seen before. Wild with creativity and carried by two incredibly talented actors, we felt like we stumbled into something really special when Craig dug up Scare Me on the Shudder streaming network. Check it out!

Scare Me (2020)

Episode 234, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: I guess I’m your lead host today because I chose this movie.

Todd: You’re the hostess with the most-est, baby.

Craig: Yeah. Okay. So seriously, we’re going to have to stop plugging shutter until they start paying, but I guess I’m going to do it again. You know, I was just, uh, looking around on shutter and, and I’ve really been.

Impressed with their, uh, original content and their exclusive content. And I don’t know which one this falls under. I don’t know if they produce this movie or if they just have the exclusive rights to it, but it’s a movie that popped up just a couple of weeks before Halloween called scare me. Uh, it’s a 2020 film written and directed by a guy named Josh Rubin, who I don’t know from anything else.

Um, and. During the Halloween season, my partner very graciously agrees to watch these kinds of movies with me, even though he’s not a big fan. I put this one in because I thought that it was going to be an anthology film. I knew the basic premise was that a couple of strangers come together. For reasons.

We’ll explain in a second and tell each other scary stories. And I thought, Oh, well, you know, I’ve seen this kind of movie before. It’s kind of like the campfire, you know, kind of deal where people sit around and tell stories and then the stories play out for us in. Film form, um, with actors and whatnot.

And I was surprised to find that, in fact, it’s not an anthology film. In fact, it really is just about a couple of people who sit around and tell each other scary stories for an evening. It’s

Todd: true to its premise.

Craig: Yeah, it is true to its premise. And I was. Surprised and initially disappointed the first 15, 20 minutes or so when the first story started and I realized that we weren’t going to see these stories acted out cinematically.

I thought, Aw, man, uh, this isn’t what I was looking for. But as it got more into the movie and certainly by the end of the movie, I was like, Oh, This is good.

I had never heard of it before. I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about the people involved. It’s just something that I stumbled on, um, and watched without, you know, planning to it for the podcast. But then, um, you and I recorded last week or a couple of weeks ago or whatever. And when we were done.

We said, what are we going to do next? And I said, let’s do this next. Uh, and you agree. Thank you. Um,

Todd: all I do is try to make you happy, Craig.

Craig: I know. So that’s my history with the movie. I assume that you had never heard of it either, right?

Todd: Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I don’t subscribe to shutter, so, uh, I don’t see these shutter originals that come up and it’s a brand new movie too.

I mean, this must have been one of the last, uh, COVID movies, pre COVID movies. It, it came out in January 24th, I think at the Sundance film festival. So that had to have been like the last film festival that was in person. This year. Right? So shutter picked it up instantly. And, uh, the actor and actress in this, it’s mainly two people, a third guy pops in for a little while.

Um, but yeah, I also had not heard of Josh Rubin. I was impressed with his performance. Actually. I was impressed with all the performances in the movie, but I went back and looked him up and saw that he has actually done quite a bit of writing some directing of shorts and a bit with like college humor and the, you know, the Stefan.

Online, some online shorts and I guess has done a ton of like commercials directed a lot of commercials. So as an actor, as a writer and a director in this movie, I was pretty impressed. I saw an interview with him online and he was talking about how, you know, this was his first big foray out into feature, film, writing and directing.

And, uh, he knew that if he was going to do it, he just needed to do it himself. Instead of try to spend a lot of time, convincing other people to give them a break on something. So he wrote the script himself in about a month, back in 2018 and then, you know, refined it over a while as he was trying to get investors and then purposely wrote it so that it would cost a lot of money.

And that shows I actually, when I was watching the movie, I was thinking more like this as a play.

Craig: Yeah. Oh, it could be a play. It could be a great play. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. And I mean, I’ve seen plays like, I mean, there’s, it would be a fantastic play, cause it all takes place in one location in the cabinet. It’s just mainly, like I said, two characters back and forth.

Uh it’s it’s a talkie. Kind of film. He had actually mentioned a, in his interviews, these Hitchcock movies, like the rope, which is just a whole bunch of people in one location talking and kind of one long take and the murder mystery all happens right there in that one place, people chatting with each other, not a lot of.

Action happens in that film. So like we just said it would be a great play because it’s just like that I felt the same way as you honestly, when I first started it up, I was like, this is interesting. It’s going to be, uh, an anthology and I kept waiting for the screen to fade into something else and it never did.

And then with the first story that they tell there’s some little bits in there visually where they do a little bit of, um, What would you call it like visual, poetic license, where they show some shadows on the wall that are clearly in their character’s heads. And they do this less and less as the show as the movie goes on.

But I thought in the very beginning for them to add those little bits and pieces was a bit of a hook. And I thought, I also thought we’d see more of that. And I thought maybe there’d be a point at which sort of like, you know, the real world kind of melds with. What they’re saying, and some of the things they’re saying actually start happening in real life.

And, or maybe we’re going to question whether or not this is an in their heads or, or, or supernatural, but actually, no, there’s none of that either. It really is just two characters telling stories. And how apropos it’s almost like, what would we, we did the beach, right? Uh, was it called the beach house or the beach beach

Craig: house?

Todd: Yeah. Where. It seemed like, Oh man, this is a story for our times. Well, this was a more positive note on when two people are stuck in a place and looking for entertainment, say quarantine or whatever. Then this is the kind of thing that we used to do. Right. We didn’t have screens and things around. We would actually just tell each other stories or you’re out in the wilderness and you’re sitting around a campfire talking so many movies.

Use that as a framing device, this is definitely the first movie I saw that just takes it and stays true to that premise. It’s it’s not really a framing device. That is the movie. And I really enjoy that. I love going to plays and there’s something about the structure of a play. Maybe the limitations of a play, a good play needs to have very strong characters with really interesting things to say, and personalities that really jump out at you to keep your interest in this thing.

That’s. All just taking place in front of you in a very small space and doesn’t have the, usually have all of the ability to have special effects and other elements really thrown in. So this movie does that really, really well. Um, I was very impressed. Yeah. I enjoyed it a lot and I’m glad we’re doing it today.

Craig: Well, and to some extent that storytelling. That you mentioned is sadly not entirely. I, I don’t want to be too cynical, but it’s kind of a lost art. Um, just because we’re so inundated with. Media from, from every angle of our lives, with our computers and our phones and our TVs and just everything. We have so much at our disposal, we just don’t do this as much.

And, and you know, the movie, it’s not like it breaks from that, but it uses it. It’s so simple. The electricity goes out and their computers are dead and they have nothing to do. And they both happen to be writers. You know, like they they’re they’re storytellers. That’s, that’s what they do. So when there’s nothing else to occupy them, they tell stories.

You’re right. A good play does have to have compelling characters and a really good play also has to have good actors. What I thought was so interesting about. This movie is at first, first of all, the main guy, Josh rumen, it starts out he’s in an Uber on the way out to this secluded cabin. And the Uber driver is hilarious.

He’s this woman. I don’t even know how to characterize her kind of. Portly tough guy kind of woman. And she’s asking him questions like, Oh, so you’re a writer. And he’s like, yeah, I’m kind of a writer kind of director kind of actor, which is clever because he is, you know, this, this guy is the right one director and actor of this movie and he’s playing our writer, director, actor, a fledgling one too, which he also is.

And the driver won’t shut up and she’s like, Oh yeah, I’m kind of a writer too. Uh she’s like, I’ve got, I’ve got this one story. I, I really think James Cameron would really like it. If he got his hands on it, she keeps saying James Cameron, which I think is so funny. And she’s hilarious.

Todd: I mean, isn’t this the kind of thing that, you know, that writers and directors have to deal with every single day of their lives.

Everybody’s like,

Craig: Oh, I’ve got this

Todd: great idea for a story. And if I could just have the time to hash it out, I’d know, Steven Spielberg would love it, you know? And. At the same time. It’s really interesting. And there’s more of a, as the film goes on about how even here in the beginning in this car, it’s playing a bit on his insecurities.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: The whole like, yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s saying that he’s a writer director, but he wants to be more than he. Feels like he’s there. He doesn’t feel like he’s arrived for sure. Right. And that, that insecurity of his gets set up right in the beginning of this car. And the best way to do it here is to put him against this woman who clearly is not going to ever be a writer.

As far as we can tell.

Craig: Well, it’s also, you know, I don’t know if this is true in real life, but it’s certainly a trope in movies and television. When somebody says they’re a writer, all of a sudden, everybody, else’s a writer too, you know, like, Oh

Todd: yeah,

Craig: I’ve got this great story that he gets to the cabin and he’s just sitting there like, he’s.

You know, trying to write his only idea that he writes down is werewolves, have guns get revenge.

That’s his whole idea, werewolves with guns, revenge.

Todd: And I, I love this bit too with the cabin where it. Again, as, uh, as you know, you and I both have throughout our lives had to sit down and try to write things facing that blank page as the worst. And all he does is run around kind of walk around the cabin, drink beer, check his phone.

Craig: Does he does stupid Jack Nicholson impressions for himself.

Todd: Yes,

Craig: but he also does, like, he’s just sitting at a chair and he starts and the music and the movie gets kind of spooky. And then he starts doing a voice. Like he looks at the door to the basement and he does a voice like me. Yeah. And it’s actually funny because as the movie goes on, we see that this guy actually is really kind of talented at manipulating his voice in his face.

Um, that’s one of the things that I liked about the movie and about him. Because at first I thought he was so lame any plays that really well for the first half hour being really super lame. But then later as he kind of gets into the storytelling and stuff, he’s far more dynamic and he actually isn’t a bad storyteller at all.

Once he gets into it. And he also develops, like, he seems like such a sad sack kind of initially, but throughout the course of the movie, he really kind of develops an edge that you don’t anticipate early on, but that is really effective. Later. I don’t know. I just thought that he did a good job with character progression.

The way he ends up is not the way that I pictured him in the beginning at all. But anyway, he’s staying in some cabins and he goes out for a morning jog where he meets this girl named Fanny. Fanny is played by an actress named AYA cash. And before I had seen this movie. I had started watching a show on Amazon called the boys and it’s about superheroes, but it’s kind of dystopian and that the superheroes are all owned by a corporation.

And so everything’s corrupt and like the superheroes. Put on this front, that there are these great, amazing heroes or whatever, but really it’s all about money, blah, blah, blah, whatever I could go on and on about that show because it’s my new favorite show. And then I saw this movie, okay, this, sorry, this story is getting convoluted.

I saw this movie. And then in this movie, I, a cash plays Fanny. A horror writer and she’s actually an established horror writer. She has had a very, very successful novel out that is, you know, critically acclaimed option for a movie already. So like she’s super established. The point is this girl throughout the whole movie, I had cash.

I fucking loved her in this movie. I thought she was amazing as it turns out. She is in the second season of the boys and she plays one of the superheroes and I’m only three episodes into season two, but she’s amazing in this. I am obsessed. With this actress. I just think she is fantastic. She’s so good.

Now you talk about her.

Todd: What more can I say? I’m going to feel like I got to like keep a bunch of praise on her. No, she was really good. And, uh, and she reminded me a little bit. Well, first of all, she seemed very real. She’s got a little bit of this edge, but it’s more of a humorous. Edge to her. I think you can see them.

Therefore, she probably has a few insecurities of her own. I thought as an actress, she was great. In fact, a lot of the dialogue and coming out of her mouth seemed so quippy and cool and natural that. I had a suspicion that maybe there was a bit of improvisation going on here. And it seems like the kind of movie that would have a lot of improvisation, because that’s what they’re doing in the movie.

It really is improvising these stories for each other. However, Josh Rubin said, no, actually there was not a lot. He said maybe 10, 12% of the movie. Was the improvised, one of his favorite lines, which came out of her mouth and he said most of what was improvised came out of her mouth. However, uh, they just didn’t have the time for that.

He said, uh, we, we, you know, we just basically had to set it up and go and we didn’t have the time and the money to spend a lot of time improvising scenes. So, and I liked her character even though at first I didn’t, I there’s some about her that turned me off a little bit. Like maybe she was a little too, um, What’s the word I’m looking for?

Correct?

Craig: I don’t know. She’s uh, I do like her, but I could understand, like, if I knew her in real life, I don’t know. She’s, she’s really sharp, very cynical.

Todd: And I like sharp people. I think people should be sharp and clever and cynicism. Isn’t terrible, but maybe she’s got a bit too much of a dose of it. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. And she’s a little bit condescending, but yeah. I, I, it, it feels less like being condescending than it feels like just being a straight shooter. Like she just, she just says what’s on her mind. Or

Todd: she, she kind of ends up taking like a tough love approach with him. Right. Like, uh, at first I thought she wasn’t really encouraging him in his aspect of telling the story.

Like you said, just a little more condescending, but after a while I felt like, no, I think maybe this is just her approach. She has this aloofness. Um, and

Craig: that’s good,

Todd: right? Yeah. A little bit of an aloofness and then kind of a tough love approach. Like I’m going to tell you straight kind of jerky about it in order to bring out something better in you that maybe she kind of has seen in there all along or.

I was looking for anyway,

Craig: but she’s also just very cool about it. Like it doesn’t come across as malicious or nasty. I don’t know how to describe her. She’s sharp. She’s yeah, she’s very confident. It seems like, and just really sharp with it. And, and I, I believe that she, you know, she’s smart and she is good at what she does.

And though, like you said, she’s not braggy about it. She’s also not super humble about it either. Like, this is what I do and I’m good at it. Like I’m not going to apologize

Todd: for that.

Craig: Well, so they meet and it’s kind of a lukewarm meeting. He knows who she is. Course. She doesn’t know who he is. Cause he’s nobody, it’s kind of a cool meeting.

Like it kind of seems like he’s kind of maybe trying to flirt with her just a little bit friendly flirting and she’s just not into it. Like, okay, whatever bye. Um, and so they, they go their own Merry ways, but then the power goes out and she comes over. Because, you know, there’s nothing to do. And, um, there are jump scares throughout.

Like she scares him at the window. It’s funny. Um, but she comes in and they’re just kind of hanging out and she’s like, I’ve got an idea. Let’s tell each other scary stories. And he’s reluctant. She’s like, no, seriously, you’re a writer. You say you’re a writer. Let’s do it. Let’s tell stories. And she says, you go first and he’s really reluctant.

And she’s like, well, what, you know, what are you working on? And he’s like, well, I’m kind of working on this werewolf story. It’s kind of like, it’s a re it’s a revenge story. And she’s like, okay, well, what’s the story? And he’s like, well, a werewolf kills a boy’s parents, and then he gets revenge and she’s like, Okay.

So what’s the story. And he’s like, well, that is the story. She said, that’s not the story. That’s an idea. What’s the story. And I just love that. And she, she forces it out of him. She makes him tell the story and she keeps prompting him with things like detail details. Come on. What’s the backstory. Um, and he starts telling the story and he starts out very, um, Kim is not the right word, awkward.

Yeah. Like very much questioning himself. And it’s evident that he really doesn’t have much more of an idea besides werewolves with guns. Like, that’s it, like, he thinks that’s good enough. And she even says like, Hmm, werewolves, werewolves are tough. You know, like what are you going to do? We’ve all seen the werewolf story.

Um, With his prompting or excuse me, with her prompting, he tells this story and it is kind of lame and it starts out kind of lame. And it’s all, you know, very typical a werewolf attacks this family and the dad gets attacked first. And then the mom gets a gun out of a shoe box in the closet, which the Fanny’s.

Totally cause like, yeah, obviously, cause there’s always a gun in the shoe box in the closet. Um, but as he gets into it, it gets better. And like you said, the movie does cool things where they play with light and shadow. And so when he says something about. I don’t know, he says something about it being dark and a full moon and the light and the trees.

And so we see like shadows of trees on the wall behind, and then he starts creeping up the stairs and they do cool things with shadows. And then he reaches his hand out and it acts like around the banister, just his hand. And we see a werewolf hand and she’s really getting into it. And she actually said, That is scary.

She’s getting into it and he’s getting into it and it’s fun.

Todd: And we’re getting into it too. I mean, I was, I mean,

Craig: I definitely was too.

Todd: I was even, I knew, you know, that they’re just telling a story, but I was kind of ready for a wearable to jump out of the shadows, you know, that’s how kind of, uh, Uh, intense.

It was. And you could kind of understand that feeling when, when you get up and your imagination, somebody is telling a story really, really well, and you’re really engaged in it. Then you visually in your head start to see things. And I thought that was really, that was really displayed well on the screen and that tension to be able to actually experience some of that from just two people telling a story, I thought was pretty masterful.

And I think like you said, they use the visual, but also they use quite a bit of sound. Uh, the sound design in the movie, just very subtle things in there. Of course, you know, some music here and there that would kind of score up, but also just, you know, in the quiet moments, little sounds of, of, uh, of, uh, of a dog panting or, or something like that, you know, he cocks the God and he’s got, you know, an air gun in his hand, right.

There’s no car, but he pulls his hand back, like he’s cocking the gun. And we hear the cock. Those little touches also really, really helped. I thought it was. It was really cool. You know, when you had said earlier that storytelling is a bit of a lost art, right. That we’re just so inundated with media nowadays, that it seems like most of what we do is just share.

Our thoughts about the stories we’ve all seen.

Craig: Yes. Like,

Todd: Oh, have you seen that movie? Oh yeah. Have you seen star? Oh yeah. I loved that episode. Oh, it wasn’t that great. You know, it’s like, we’re not telling stories to each other anymore. We’re not inventing them anyway. We’re just rehashing them just by reminding each other of the little bits and pieces of the story.

Craig: Exactly. It reminded me so much. His storytelling reminded me of what we do. Like retelling movies. I loved it. He’s like, and so until the world goes slash slash slash, and the mom’s like, so she’s dead. And then it’s

Todd: no wonder we don’t get paid for this. Uh,

but, but in their storytelling, right, they’re doing this. Like, she’ll be like, Oh, just like Jimmy Lee Curtis right in Halloween. Oh yeah. You know, and they don’t do too much of this, especially as it goes on. And it seems like the storytelling is a little more confident and more original in this very beginning.

It’s like he needs those hooks. Right to hook onto things that are familiar and she’s recognizing that she’s pointing it out and it does in some way, feel like they’re co he’s cobbling his story together based on little bits and pieces of things. They’re both already familiar with. Right. So it’s very much like a level, one story that he’s doing and it’s cute.

And it’s just, it’s, it’s natural. It’s normal. Like this is like how we do it. It seems like in many ways. Uh, so

Craig: yeah, I mean, and especially on the spot, you know, they’re just making this up on the spot or at least he is, and, uh, you know, his story ends up the. The kid grows up and turns into like a bounty Hunter or something.

And he, and he finds the werewolf. He knows who it is. And he’s like, and he walks in and he, he raises, he looks right at and he says, are you been. Franklin. I’m really bad at making.

Okay. And he’s like, and then it cuts to slow motion and he raises the gun and he cocks it. O Q Huey Lewis credits. Boom.

I know. So silly. So funny. Oh God, but then it’s her turn. And at first he’s like, okay, your turn. And she’s like, no, I’m good. Like, she’s not going to tell the story, but he finally gets her too. And her story is called grandpa and I have been. Walking around the house doing this story for weeks.

She’s like, okay, so there’s, this is a little girl it’s can color Cassie. I don’t know whatever. And she’s like, but she has this grandpa and he’s super creepy. And the other guy’s like, ah, wait, no, if this is a touchy kid story, I’m not into it. And she’s like, no, I’m not going to go there. Shut up. Um, and that’s the other thing, like he tries to do the same things to her that she did to him, like asking for details since she just always says, don’t interrupt me.

She just

Todd: shuts him down. And he’s like, okay.

Craig: And she’s like, and, and Cassie has this grandpa and he’s like Bulgarian or something. Vaguely Slavic. So he has this Slavic. And she, she tells the whole story and it’s just, it’s a very simple story, but it is very creepy about this creepy grandpa. And he was like, Cassie, come to grab my dog, walking around, doing that voice for

Todd: sure.

Craig: I’m sure that Alan is. I, I I’m sure he’s terribly amused, calm pool. Grab Bob.

Todd: This, this, this must have been the most rehearsal you’ve put in for a podcast lately really impressed that you brought that to the table. Usually I’m singing songs.

Craig: It’s such a simple story, but she is such an. Active storyteller.

Like, she’s so good. Like I want this girl to sit and tell me stories all day. Like she’s just fantastic. And the story is that like the grandpa’s super creepy and weird or whatever. And so the eventually the, uh, Granddaughter is like, I’m going to get some medicine and poison his food. And the guy’s like, well, that’s kind of dark.

And she’s like, no, it’s kid logic. It’s like, well, maybe he will just get very sick and, and then things will be better. I don’t know. Or maybe he will be dead and that’s okay too. So quick, like I’m sure it’s the character, I’m sure it’s writing, but this girl is just so good at acting it too. Like she’s just so quick and smart and her storytelling is so good.

And at one point, like, When the grandpa’s dying, she’s like, and the drools he’s got soup all over his face. And she, like, I don’t even know where it came from. She gets a big old handful of peanut butter and smears it on her face. So she’s laying on the couch with this peanut butter smeared all over her face, talking like the grandpa.

And then the grandpa dies and comes, like sends his little dog back to haunter. And like you said, little things are going on. Like. She’ll say things like cue the spooky lightening and lightening will happen. And then she’ll say, and the door opened slowly by itself and you see that happen behind them.

And it’s not as though they’re not taking notice of these things. They do. Like, they look at them like they look at the door like. That’s weird. That’s no, these things are really happening as they’re telling the story, but anyway, she finishes her story. It’s hilarious. Um,

Todd: and they order pizza

Craig: and that’s when they get into an art, they don’t really get into an argument.

She does. Take a lot of shots at him about being a privileged white guy. And he kind of takes offense to that. And at some point after she tells her story, she’s like, let’s order a pizza. He gives her his phone and she calls and she orders the pizza. And then while she’s still got the phone, he gets a text and she gets it because she’s got the phone and she’s like, who’s Meredith.

She says, you’re a monster. And he freaks out. Kind of on her, like gets aggressively angry and she’s like, uh, okay dude, I’m going to take a walk. So she does. I mean, she just goes outside for a little bit and she’s got this idea notebook and she’s writing in it and they make up, you know, he goes out and they share like a CBD vape or whatever.

And he’s like, well, she’s my ex. And. She got a restraining order against me. Like,

Todd: she’s like kind of explains

Craig: it a way E but you know, it just kinda seems like bad relationship ending and he’s edgy about it, but not really a big deal in the moment.

Todd: It’s true. But also, I don’t know, for me, it felt like a bigger deal because, uh, in the moment, because I, it brought me back to really where we are and what their situation is.

And maybe just because I knew this is a quote unquote horror comedy, I was waiting for a twist to come or something, but they’re still two strangers. They really don’t know each other. Yeah. And she being the female in the situation, although she does seem like a woman that can very much hold her own still has put herself in a position of vulnerability by coming to this guy’s cabin and agreeing to be there with him.

And she doesn’t know anything about his background, but she’s famous. So like the likelihood that she’s going to have this dark side to her and flip out or something like that is, is pretty, pretty low. And he’s fanboying enough on her. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s just, um, it, it, it reminded me that we don’t know enough about him.

Yet. And so when he tells this story about how, not only did he and his wife had this bad breakup, but he had this mental breakdown and that he had threatened to kill her. She’s a little taken aback by it briefly. He’s like, Oh really? And you can visibly see a change in her face. And like you said, he kind of explains it a way, like, well, you know, like I’m going to kill you.

I’m going to kill you. You know, it’s just the sorts of things we shout at each other when we are fighting. But. Duly noted, you know, by me, I, her, I was like, Oh yeah, that’s interesting. And so it did for me at least a little bit up the interest. Once you learn a little bit more about his background and find out that he’s a little more complicated than that, just this lonely single sad sack.

Trying to be a writer. He’s got a little bit of an edge to him. We start to see a little peak of that here and a that I thought was a powerful moment.

Craig: Yeah. I agree with you. But I don’t know. Maybe like her in the moment, everything else about him has seemed so non-threatening like, he just seems, frankly, he comes across as being pretty weak, you know, like she is a dominant.

Force and he is not. Um, or at least it seems

Todd: that way it’s easy to write off is what you’re saying.

Craig: Yeah. And I even believe him, you know, he says, Oh, you know, it’s when you’re fighting and you’re really upset. You say things like that, like I’m going to kill you. Like, I don’t know. I don’t recall ever having said that, but I have had.

I’ve said horrible, hateful things that I didn’t mean that taken out of context could be threatening. I suppose, the came across, you know, I believed him, you know, I just, I believed him. He went through a bad. Breakup and it was ugly and that happens. I didn’t think, Oh, he’s scary. You know what I mean?

Todd: Neither, but I consciously wanted to believe him because of all the other things you said, I’m like, Oh, okay. I all right. I’m just going to write that off too. Like, she’s writing it off. Um, but. You know, once again, it just really illuminates that that fact that they still don’t really know each other that well, and that they’re putting a lot of trust in each other to be there.

Craig: Well, and the fact that we’re talking about it so much, I’m sure signals to our listeners that it’s significant later and it is, um, but

Todd: it seems like I put more significance on it in the moment than you did.

Craig: Yeah, I think so, but anyway. Okay. So they get back to storytelling and they actually tell a story together.

Um, they make up a story together about this troll because he does, he does a Gollum impersonation, basically. It’s crap

Todd: though. It’s so good.

Craig: Oh, it’s good. He’s really good. And he is actually very good at doing voices and manipulating his face. He can do really interesting, fun things with his face. Like he can cross his eyes funny and he can really kind of grotesquely manipulate his face.

Um, he’s good at it, which is surprising because he seems so lame initially, but when he actually gets into it, he’s good at it.

Todd: You’re right. And, and also this story gave him a chance, I think, just to do more interesting things with the camera. Like, like again, when you’re in this little room, you’ve got to keep the cinematography engaging and interesting as well or else or else it looks like you’re just watching a stage play and it was neat how.

It got us down on his level. We’re kind of looking up at the troll from the ground and he seemed a little more sinister with his facial expressions. They use the light, I think, from the fireplace to very good effect. It’s, it’s the only light source in the room, but boy, when they need to make somebody look spooky, you make sure that there’s some shadows being cast up on his face from that light.

And yeah, it was good. It was really good that this is the story. Like you said, that they’re just. They’re basically improvising together and it’s it’s of course it feels like an improvised story because it’s about a troll that lives in the, behind the walls of an edible arrangements,

Craig: because that’s his only idea. His only idea is. I am.  like, okay, well, but there’s gotta be something interesting. Like he has to live somewhere interesting. Like maybe in the Vince of like, I don’t know, like an animal or,

Todd: and they just like an act, just like an improvisation game. They just have to go with it.

Craig: It’s so funny. Like, Oh God, I can’t remember the lines, but they. Like antisemitic. Hello, edible arrangements. We have a troll that lives in the walls. Like, Oh God, it’s so funny.

Todd: By the way in that interview, you know, the interview heard asked him what his inspirations were for the movie. Was there anything in particular he was drawing from?

And he said kind of spiritual inspiration, more than anything. It was, uh, the number one was catseye from Stephen King. Oh. He said that movie really had an impact on him as a kid. It was an anthology. He really liked that aspect of it. And he said, and if you really look at the movie, you’ll see. I’ve got a troll in there.

I’ve got kind of a weird old man. He said a, a little bits and pieces of cats. I did thematically and spiritually made a bit made it into this movie. So I thought that was

Craig: that’s fun. Yeah, it, it is. And they come up with, um, kill your boss and then kiss me and you will live for 300 years. It just the most contrived ridiculous things.

Yeah. And then she’s describing. Cause, cause she plays the sweet little innocent girl who has to kill her boss and she’s like, and she goes and finds the boss and. He’s like, what are you doing here? And it’s like, Oh, I don’t know. I was just looking for you. And he starts to like move on to her. And, and she, she’s just doing all of this.

She’s just telling a story, but it’s so good in her voice, in her facial expressions. And she’s like, and he makes his move on her and he smells like it. Dirty diaper and the guy’s like, Ooh. And she’s like, uh, yes. Why would she say, uh, yeah, no shit. Ooh. We’re trying to empathize with her.

Todd: It’s like she’s giving a masterclass in storytelling for this guy.

Craig: Yeah, and they do great things with the camera because at the end of the story, she kills her boss, but then somebody else witnesses it. So they have to kill her too. And so there, and then he, as the troll kind of down, hunched down is chasing her around and she’s screaming and running like she’s in parallel and it’s hilarious.

And they’re just running across frame. Like, I love that. Like you just see him chasing her across the frame and then chasing back and then back again. And then the last time you see he’s dragging her by the feet and she’s like pounding on the ground and then they just end up on the ground together, laughing hysterically and.

They almost kiss. And I thought that they were going to, but like, it’s part of the story, but it’s that like cute thing where like, well now in the story, it’s time for them to kiss. Oh yeah, I guess it is. And they kind of start to lean in to kiss a little bit, but we see somebody very scarily opened the door and sneak up behind them.

And then the person says something and they both scream and jump up. And it’s the pizza guy. Um, who’s, who’s played by, uh, Chris Redd, who is an SNL alum. Um, and he’s very funny and he gives them the pizza and they pay him or whatever. And then he says something like, I guess it’s a good thing. I’m not a serial killer.

And he kind of does his own little 30 seconds. Improv story. And I guess that prompts her. To invite him to stay, which he does. He stays like for a couple hours too long and hanging out with them and telling stories. When he finally leaves, when he finally leaves, he’s like, Oh shit, I got to go. I’ve got a Hawaiian that was supposed to be somewhere two hours.

I didn’t anticipate this part. I didn’t anticipate a third person coming in. When he arrived, when he arrived, I was a little disappointed. Because I was so digging their dynamic that I felt like introducing a third person would kind of mess with that. But as it turns out, this guy is actually really funny too.

And it turns out he doesn’t know who she is until Fred tells him, but then he, as it turns out, he does know who she is and he’s a huge fan. And so he’s star struck. And so he hangs out and get drunk and then she’s like, so anybody want to do some Coke? And. Fred has never done Coke before, which they are both blown away by.

They can’t believe it. They’re like, Oh my God, you have to do it. You have to do it. And he’s like, no, I’ve never done it. And I’m sure you wouldn’t like me on Coke. Which again, just a little bit of like foreboding, like Hm.

Todd: Why?

Craig: Right, exactly. But he does it anyway. And so then there are, they’re all coked out of their minds.

And he, Fred has been trying to get Fannie to tell the story of her novel the whole night and she wouldn’t do it. But finally, with Carlos help, they talk her into doing it. And she and Carlo act out the events of her book, which is like a vampire book, I think. But I also thought this was clever because like him, I had been wanting to know.

What her amazing book was all about. And then when they finally give it to us, they really don’t give it to us at all, because he’s just, he is so coked out watching them that he’s really just, yeah. That he’s just kind of sweating. And, and so we only get very small snippets of it and it’s incoherent. I have no idea what the book.

Is really about, I mean, when they’re done, she says that it’s really like a feminist manifesto about men having mommy complexes or something like that. Um, but I wasn’t, I wasn’t mad at them for doing the, doing it the way they did. I thought that it was actually kind of clever to still conceal from us what this amazing book was all about.

Todd: Apparently they actually filmed the 12 minute scene where you got to see the entire book. Um, and later in the editing room, he decided to cut that down and again, to great effect. I completely agree with you. We really didn’t need, we, I mean, this keeps us from having to pass judgment on her, right. And her novel and her success and all that stuff.

I’m sure it was really, really funny and interesting the way that they shot it. But like you said, it’s so much better for us to just not know for sure. What all that was. Cause you know, the, the, the theme of the movie, you know, and, and what we’re getting is these stories that they’re making up and telling each other, and this would be.

More rehashing of something that’s already out there. So I think it was a better choice for them to cut that out. Like you said, and the device that they were all kind of coked out on it. So it was a little incoherent any way. Makes perfect sense.

Craig: It’s still fun to watch was creative. It’s mad cap. The way that it’s shot, which I assume is meant to.

Mimic the way that they were experience it, experiencing it on Coke. I’ve never done Coke. I have no interest in it. So I don’t know what that’s like, but visually. I felt like I kinda, I get it, you know, everything was frantic and crazy, whatever.

Todd: I think his reaction to it, he’s just like, I don’t get it. And he’s more or less nonplussed.

And she’s very apologetic. Like for once she’s kind of put on the defensive, being the one being judged here and she’s like, well, you know, I mean, it’s kinda hard to act out a whole novel here, right in front of you, you know, we’re kind of, we have limitations and things like that. And he’s like, no, I just don’t understand esteem this, whatever.

And there there’s a little bit of tension there, all of a sudden again, but it’s, you know, it’s flipped around. And I think that it’s like he wants to cut her down a little bit because he feels like she’s been flaunting her success a little bit. All night long. Yeah. Yeah.

Craig: Jealous of her. He is jealous of her.

Todd: And here’s this guy who came in from the outside. He’s also a big fan. Fawning over her. And then when he leaves, you know, he’s like, Oh, to her, like, can you sign my pizza box and sign it, sign it to Fred, who we sat up and we told stories and we retold Venus and we did Coke together. And you’re in my bed in my best fan.

She’s like, Oh yeah, that’s

Craig: exactly what I wrote.

Todd: And then he’s like, all right, see ya. Bye Fred, he wanders off. So yeah, Fred’s, Fred’s pretty pissed getting pissed by this point.

Craig: And he’s talked about it. I feel like at least a little bit, you know how he said, you get to live your dream and I, you know, I’m just a nobody, blah, blah, blah.

And she keeps. Saying to him. And it happens just very briefly, a couple of times throughout, and then it culminates at the end. But, you know, she, she just kind of says to him, you know what, here’s an idea. How about you do something, you know, like quit bitching about it and do something. Um, but he doesn’t, he doesn’t take that well, and I, I.

Get it. That’s kind of something that’s hard to hear from somebody, especially somebody who’s younger than you who’s had a lot of success already. Um, but she’s right. You know, like he’s just feeling sorry for himself, but he’s not doing anything proactive. I mean, I guess he is, he came to this cabin to write, but all he’s got is werewolf’s with guns.

I don’t know. Before Carlo leaves, they do a musical story, which is hilarious. Um, they’re like, Uh, Fred says let’s do something with music and then they’re just like quick brainstorming. Yeah. A singer possessed by the devil. It’s like a star is born, but Satan and it’ll be like American idol, except not because we won’t want to have to pay the licensing fees.

So instead it will be the big talent show LA

and then Fred plays the part of the devil and he’s all lit and red. And. She’s this she’s this mild-mannered girl who’s accepted this deal with the devil to win American idol. I’d like, she’s up there getting ready to perform her song. And she’s like, don’t fuck this up for me, the devil.

And then she sings a song. So funny, like, it sounds like this sweet ballad, but really the words are all like Satan. I’m like,

Oh God, gosh. Oh man. It’s really, really funny. But then Carlo leaves.

Todd: What a great bit of variety to, to throw in here, again, to, to throw some music in now. And we, I mean, each one of these stories has kind of a different quirk, a different tone. And again, it just makes this aspect of three people telling stories and here really interesting and engaging to watch visually.

Craig: And then, um, And it, it is, it is so interesting visually because they do things with spotlights and stage lights, and it really looks like, you know, one of those kinds of talent shows as much as it can in a cabin, but they do cool stuff with the lighting. It’s cool. I like it. Um, Carlo leaves and then she.

Says that she’s going to leave. It’s like four in the morning and she says, she’s going to leave. And, um, he’s like, Oh, that’s kind of a bummer. I was having fun. And she’s like, Oh, it’s cool friends. You know, like we’ll have coffee tomorrow or whatever, before you go off and do whatever you’re going to do whatever.

And she wants to leave and he’s like, no, come on. Just one more story. And this is where it takes a turn that really, really caught me off guard. And ultimately I’m still not really sure.

Todd: Of

Craig: what was going on here. I

Todd: mean, either

Craig: I’m really not sure.

Todd: This thing, Craig mentioned a little bit earlier, but has been kind of coming up here and there is that she has this notebook where she keeps all her ideas.

And earlier in the movie he had said, Oh, that’s like your million dollar idea notebook. And she’s like, yeah, it kind of is. And then he had seen her writing something in the notebook, uh, while she was outside on the porch while they were taking a breather. And then it. Turns out, I guess, while she was in the bathroom, he got the notebook and he started reading through and he’s found the last several pages where she has been writing ideas based on him, just to like write

Craig: the loser, basically.

Todd: Yeah. Painting him was a loser and all this. And, uh, and he’s gets very offended by that. And so he says, now we’re going to do a new story. He starts out by saying, you know, we haven’t done a slasher type story yet. So that kind of hangs like a dark cloud. Like where is he going with this?

Craig: Well, and it’s, yeah, it, I mean, it starts out to that.

He starts out with kind of. His story about his previous relationship and how badly that it ended. And that comes across as sounding far more ominous than he had made it out to be before. Um, and, but then he says, but then he met this girl and he, he really liked her. And for the first time, in a long time, he really started to feel a connection.

Um, and he felt, you know, really good for the first time in a long time. But then he found out what she really thought about him. And it just gets really dark, really fast. I mean, they’re literally just standing four feet away from each other. Just looking at each other face to face, just standing in the dark.

Yeah. I mean, it’s not pitch black, but in a dark fire lit cabin, just standing there, looking at each other and he’s telling the story and it’s very menacing and she, at first. Doesn’t react much at all. And eventually she says, fine, I get it. You saw my notebook. Can you just give me my notebook back? And I’ll just get out of here.

And he won’t.

Todd: Yeah. Key thing that he says is that, like you said, and he started to feel really good about himself. And then he started to feel used. And that was, this is the thing he feels like he’s just being mined for material now. And maybe the whole reason that she’s been telling all these stories and trying to have this of this interesting time with him is just that she can get material for a book or something in the future.

Then she says, come on. Like, what are you doing with that poker? Yeah.

Craig: Which, uh, which I didn’t even notice that he was holding. And so that line, that line, it was, it was actually really scary. Like, yeah. W Fred, what are you doing with that poker? And then the camera cuts to it and he’s holding it at his side and all of a sudden.

Everything is different. All of a sudden I’m looking at him totally differently. I’m looking at him thinking, my God, this guy is unhinged. And I didn’t this whole time. I didn’t know it. Like, it just, it really threw me for a

Todd: loop. He does throw a little bit of doubt in there when he says, well, you, you wanted me to scare you, right?

Because he feels like he’s been unsuccessful at scaring her. And so also in this moment, you’re questioning. Is he really unhinged or is he acting on hinge to accomplish finally what he’s been trying to accomplish all night and get, you know, one up one up her basically, and tell her a story that really, really scares her, ironically mining their relationship, that material well,

Craig: right.

And when he. Says something about her writing stuff down about him. She says, because I’m a writer, dude, we make observations of the world. That’s what we do. It

Todd: all makes perfect sense from both of their and ends, right? I mean, it’s all very believable.

Craig: And I don’t remember where he says something about stealing ideas or something.

And, and she says, I’m a horror writer. And I’m a lady, everybody steals from me, which I thought was really smart in this context, because. I imagine that’s true. You know, horror is not a genre that women thrive in. And I don’t think it’s because women are untalented. I just think that traditionally it’s been a boys club.

You know, we have the hundreds of movies that we’ve reviewed a handful have been. Directed by women. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s terribly disproportionate. So her perspective is absolutely true. She says you’re just pissed off because you know, you’ll never be great, which I, I thought maybe not the smartest thing for her to say, but I think that she’s trying to convince.

She, what she’s trying to do is confront him with the truth. That the reason that he’s not going anywhere is not anybody else’s fault, but his own. And he can try to blame it on other people. But if you just don’t have it, you just don’t have it, but he proposes a chase. He says, I’ll chase you. And. If I don’t catch you, I’ll give you your notebook back and you can go on your Merry way.

But if I do catch you basically all I’ll kill you. And so the chase ensues, she runs and she hides, uh, he chases her, she hides under the bed and it kind of seems like. He just doesn’t look under the bed and kind of walks away. I mean, it’s a small cabin. Where else is she going to go? I assumed that he knew she was there and he did, you know, eventually she, she crawls out and he flips the lights on and he’s still standing right there.

And he says, this might be the creepiest story yet. And I thought of it and then he starts chasing her again and they run towards the stairs and we don’t see it, but we hear them fall down the stairs. Yeah. It’s obvious that something has happened, but we don’t know until they cut back to them. And what has happened.

We just see at first, her laying on her back, like propping herself up on her elbows, breathing heavily and kind of crying and looking at something. And then it cuts to him and he has impaled himself on the fireplace poker. And this is when he says. I was just kidding. I was just telling a story and I don’t know if he’s telling the truth or not.

I have no idea. I don’t know if he really was just telling a story or if he really was crazy and may have killed her. I have no idea because he’s pretty convincing when he says. I was just kidding. I kind of believe it, but I’m not sure

Todd: it’s very ambiguous and I think it can more or less stay there.

That’s part of what makes the ending so genius. I think, I mean, I really do think the ending of this movie is wonderful because I was wondering where in the world would they lead and, uh, and yeah, that was interesting. So he’s, he’s impaled on the poker and she’s there and she’s upset and he’s just sputtering out and he asked her to do him a favor.

By finishing him off and she’s like, you know, I can’t do that. And he’s like, no, please finish me off. So she goes over and she gets a log and starts to approach him. And he goes, Oh, log, good choice. And, and she raises it in the air. Like she’s going to bring it down on his head or whatever. And then she goes, Nope, and just drops it and just walks out of the house.

And, uh, yeah. And then the woman fro the driver, it’s like the it’s like morning time, the driver’s there to pick him up and she stumbles around the house. She’s looking around. Well, it looks like somebody had a really good time here last night. It’s up a piece of pizza. Cool pizza from the counter and eating it.

I mean, she’s funny. Uh, but anyway, she, she goes around and doesn’t even seem to, to see him. What she sees is that notebook on the floor, she picks up the notebook, opens it goes, Hm. And then cut to credits. And then after a couple of credits, go up on the screen, we see kind of a mid credit scene. Where there’s a bookshop and it’s, Dolly’s in closely on the window and you see that this woman has written, the book scare me and apparently is now a bestselling author based on this book of stuff that she found in the

Craig: notebook.

Oh my gosh. That’s so funny. I didn’t see that. No, you turned it off. I. Yeah, I did. Well, no, actually I thought there might be an incredible scene. So I cut to the end of the credits, but there wasn’t, I didn’t watch them through, so I didn’t see the mid credits. That’s

Todd: funny. Whereas if you missed it in 20, it was just in 20 seconds, which wraps it up quite neatly because of course, the way, the reason that writer, what was her name again?

Fannie wanted to get out of there with, so she had nothing to do with his death. And couldn’t be associated with it. So of course she didn’t have time to go back for the notebook, but she’s never going to admit that her notebook was in there. So she can’t do anything about this woman stealing her notebook of ideas.

She’s just got to kind of accept it. So, uh, it was a clever ending in two ways. Right. It’s kind of cute and kind of funny, but also like you said, ambiguous, um, I still don’t know whether he was telling the truth or not, and that just makes that last story very delicious.

Craig: Aye. Aye. This movie surprised me. It really surprised me how much I ended up enjoying it.

And I think it’s cleverly written. Uh, I think that they did so well with limited resources, you know, a, a very confined. Um, set piece that they did so many cool things with lighting and cinematography and not even anything complicated, it wasn’t anything complex or complicated. It was just clever and, and a good use of, of what they had available.

And I also just think. I was impressed, especially all the actors were good. I mean, uh, Chris red, who was Carlo, he was good. He was really funny. I liked him, but Josh Ruben and I, a cash carry this movie and they, I just think they just. I just think they just do a great, great job. I think it’s well acted.

It’s fast paced. It’s funny. It’s witty. I totally believe them in their characters. She’s hilarious throughout. I thought that he had a really great character arc where he’s. Yeah. I had a certain perception of him in the beginning. And then by the end, my perception of him had totally changed. And I was actually kind of confused in a good way.

I just thought it was really super, super clever. Um, and I was excited to share it with you because you know, we love horror and both of us are our film are fans of horror films, but we’re also both fans of. Horror literature. We both read a lot of that stuff. And a story about horror writers and a story where these horror writers are playing on and playing with conventions of horror and storytelling.

I just ate it up. I just, ah, man,

Todd: I just loved it. It’s on everything we love. Doesn’t it. It’s kind of nice that way. And it’s an, you know, what, as a movie, if you’re going to. Be an actor. I mean, this is an actor showcase movie. This is the kind of movie that not only if you want to get a leg up and writing and directing, but if you want to showcase your acting talents, you want to write a movie like this for yourself, where you just get to see their range, uh, the different characters they play within the stories.

They really carry the movie and they have to, or else the movie just wouldn’t work. So ditto, everything you said. I, I also really enjoyed this movie and all for the same reasons, but above and beyond. Everything else. The acting was just so damn good.

Craig: Yeah. I I’ve got my eye on AYA cash. She, I think she’s going places, huh?

Well,

Todd: Josh Rubin has a werewolf movie coming up, so I guess we’ll see

Craig: with gun. All right. Well, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this episode. As always, we’ve got a great, big, huge back catalog that you can revisit or visit for the first time. If you’re new to us. Um, if you are new to us and you liked this, share us with a friend, um, you can also get in touch with us on Facebook or on our website.

You can find the podcast anywhere. You can find podcasts,

Todd: Stitcher,

Craig: play iTunes, all those places. And we will be back again sometime soon with a, uh, another review for you. But until then I’m Craig.

Todd: and I’m Todd

Craig: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Michael Myers is back yet again in a fresh sequel to the 1978 original, set 40 years later and starring a 40 years-older Jamie Lee Curtis. Something about this baby just works, and Craig and I had a ball discussing it. Happy Halloween, everyone!

Halloween 2018 (2018)

Episode 233, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

And it’s our favorite time of the year it’s Halloween season. I don’t know about, I don’t know about you, Todd, but I’ve been watching lots of scary movies, uh, really enjoying the spooky season. I’m doing my, uh, horror unit with my class, having fun with that.

Todd: Awesome.

Craig: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun do it every year. And so when we were talking about movies that we wanted to do for this Halloween season, one of the movies that we have stayed away from.

Is John carpenter’s Halloween because we’ve both talked about it many times and we’ve talked about it on the show about how there are some movies that people have talked so much about that we just don’t really feel like we would have a whole lot to bring to the table as far as fresh, interesting content.

So we just kind of stayed away from it. But this year I thought that, um, It might be interesting to take a look at Halloween 2018. This is a movie directed by and, and co-written by David Gordon green and features the return of Jamie Lee Curtis to the franchise. Jamie Lee Curtis has appeared throughout the franchise.

She was in one, obviously into four part three. They. Straight away from the Michael Myers storyline. And we’ve done that movie in it. It’s an interesting movie in its own. Right. But kind of an outlier in the series. And then four, five, and six kind of took a whole different angle on the Michael Myers story and focused on Laurie Strode, Jimmy Lee Curtis’s characters daughter.

And it turned out like Michael Myers was the result of some evil cult that like. Made all of this happen and turned him into what he is. And then they ignored all those to go back to H2O, Halloween H2O, 20 years after the original Jamie Lee Curtis returned, they ignored four or five and six in the timeline there.

And then she appeared in the next installments briefly where she was killed off. And then there were the remakes, the Rob zombie remakes, and then 40 years later in 2018, we get Halloween. Which was intended initially to be a whole new reboot on the Michael Myers character, new mythology, all that kind of stuff.

It was not intended to be a SQL, but eventually. The filmmakers announced that it would in fact, be a direct sequel to the original movie, ignoring all of the timelines from the rest of the franchise, just to direct SQL to number one. Um, and it came out and I went and saw it in the theater with my dad, as I often do with these types of movies.

Um, and we both. Really really liked it. And so I recommended it for today and I hadn’t seen it since then when it came out in the theater. And so I watched it again yesterday and I had as much as I remembered liking it, I had really kind of forgotten exactly how much I liked it. I think this is a great movie and a great sequel to the original John carpenter’s Halloween.

What’s your story with his movie, Todd, anything.

Todd: I’m ashamed to admit that this thing kind of flew right by my radar. I think I stopped paying attention to the Halloween franchise. After the first few, I never was a huge Michael Myers fan for whatever reason. I was so focused on Freddy. I wasn’t even a Jason fan, really.

So I was really just kind of a one, one note guy interested in Freddy, more than anything else. So I obsessed over the nightmare on Elm street movies. And to me, you know, the Michael Myers movies had always been well, he’s just another. Killer. In fact, when I was younger and I watched the movies, I thought that he was just kind of blah, a guy comes around and he, he was wearing a white mask and he kills people like where’s the hook, where’s the, the creative wacky kills that you get in the Jason movies.

Where’s the dream and supernatural stuff that you get in the. Freddy movies, you know, it’s not a possessed doll, like in the Chucky movie. So like this had always seemed really kind of boring to me in a concept, I guess I wasn’t really, I’m really like the high concept and the supernatural, however, as an adult, you know, going back and watching the original Halloween night, which I have several times as an adult.

In fact, after we watched this movie, I was so struck by what I remembered as being. So many parallels to the original that I had to go back and watch the original, just to test myself. And, uh, I just loved that experience. It’s it’s it is actually a very different, and I’m talking about the original, the original is a very different kind of movie from these others.

You know, it came before most of them, but it’s, it has its own style and its flare. It really takes its time. And, um, I find the character of Michael Myers as an adult, maybe to be creepier than any of those other guys, to be honest. And so coming into this movie, uh, I’m just gonna throw it out there, just like you did.

I thought this was fantastic as well. I, I, it almost did no wrong as far as I’m concerned. It literally picked up right after the first one, I mean, years later, but as though nothing else happened, uh, in what we had seen in the sequels. Past it, I thought took a very realistic notion and idea on. What would happen if you’re the final girl, right?

Jamie Lee Curtis his character from, and thank God she reprised it. But what a great concept, like she was so traumatized by that experience that she becomes this woman. Who’s basically out in the woods, armed her self with all kinds of guns, trains, herself, and target practice. Like every day she has a daughter and she trains her too.

She’s got a house it’s like full of alarms and booby traps and things. And. Her whole life is just basically waiting for him to come back. When you see, when you go back and you see the original, like I did afterwards, you understand why? I mean, it really works. She was traumatized in the original, I mean, the original ends with her just sobbing in tears.

Yeah. Just broken and the. He was pretty relentless in the original, I mean, it all fits so well. It was like, duh, you know, I watched that and I thought, yeah, David was a David McBride who co-wrote the movie along with some input from John Carpenter. And a couple other people, Blumhouse, I think it was Jason Blom, right.

Was the one who kind of, kind of pushed this ahead, uh, at, through its various incarnations to try to get this going. And I just feel like they watched the original movie and with fresh eyes and was like, well, yeah. All right, we’re going to pick up right where this left off this woman’s traumatized. At the end of this movie.

So here we are, years later, she’s still traumatized. Right. And, and he ends up locked up again. And so in many ways, the movie almost parallels in so many ways. I kind of think of it a little bit like star Wars, the force awakens. One of the things that made that movie really successful is that it kind of, in a way, the plot hit all of the same beats that the original did, but it did it in an original way so that you had the fan service there and everybody who was expecting a star Wars movie, like they remembered a star Wars movie.

That’s. Exactly what they got almost to a fault, but there was enough original story and interesting characters in there to be a completely separate movie. And that’s exactly how I felt about this one. Uh, it, it hits so many of the same beats, almost followed a very similar, if not, you could argue almost the same plot as the original, in many ways.

However, it had enough little twist in it and so much interesting. And like I said, I thought very original and realistic take on the characters from the first movie that I was just gripped. I was gripped through the whole thing.

Craig: Yeah. And you said, thank God, Jamie Lee Curtis decided to reprice her role. I agree entirely.

I think it was Halloween resurrection that they asked her to be a part of and she said, I will do it, but I want you to kill me off in the first scene because. I’m done. I’m done with this character. And so they did, and it was, first of all, Halloween, resurrection is a terrible movie. Coincidentally enough, there was a marathon of the Halloween movies on yesterday.

And so I watched four or five them six

Todd: back to back. Oh my God. You did your research this time.

Craig: And, and none of those movies are particularly good. I mean, there’s some things going on there, but Halloween resurrection is, is bad. Like they tried to do like a Michael Meyers reality show type thing, and it was so stupid, but Laurie Strode her character.

There did appear, uh, in the beginning, but she was killed off. And Jamie Lee Curtis had sworn that she was not going to come back, but apparently Jake Gyllenhaal is a family friend, a close family friend, and somehow he talked her into doing it and she did, and she came back and she plays this role. So, well, I think it’s subtle.

It’s nuanced. It’s believable. You believe that this is a woman in trauma, as much as. She’s a bad-ass cause she totally is. She’s like fricking Rambo, you know, like she’s got this whole arsenal of weapons and she’s got all these booby traps. She’s got all this cool stuff, but she’s also vulnerable as strong as she is.

There is a vulnerability too. And you can see that in her performance. I think Jamie Lee Curtis is fantastic. Period. And if I remember correctly, when we talked to bill Oberst junior on the show, after we were done talking to him and we had finished the episode, we stopped recording and we continued to just kind of talk to him and pick his brain for a little bit.

And he had worked with Jamie Lee Curtis in the past. And I asked him, is she as cool in person as she seems to be? And he said, she’s even cooler. Like, uh, so it’s amazing that she came back. Um, and, and she’s great in it. The other thing that I wanted to say was you had talked about. Finding Michael Myers kind of boring.

Initially, what always has fascinated me about the character of Michael Myers is that his motivation is just that he’s evil. That’s it? Yeah.

Todd: That’s all anybody can figure out.

Craig: Yeah. He’s just. Evil. He’s just evil, incarnate. He is an almost unstoppable killing machine. And I don’t know, you know? Yeah. It doesn’t have that intrigue, maybe that.

Freddy has. Um, but, uh, there’s, there’s something really dark and scary about just simply an evil force. And I think that that plays in this movie really well, especially because even though we never get a full shot of him, Yeah, full face shot. We see him a lot in this movie without the mask before he gets it back.

And he’s an old man in this movie he’s supposed to be 61 years old. The character is supposed to be 61 years old. The guy who played him who’s played him before. Actually he was portrayed by more than one person in this movie, but the main guy is 70 in real life and he looks elderly, but. I still believed him as.

A really frightening and powerful force. And he just, he was scary in this way. You know,

Todd: he’s a bit of an enigma, right. And maybe that is what I’m really latching onto now as an adult, as I’m able to just digest and absorb these movies a little bit better, the thing is. I thought they did really well in this film, like you said, is that we are constantly reminded that he’s a person, right.

Part of what is so chilling about him as that, he just seems like this faceless blank slate, the white mask that you don’t see the eyes there’s practically no reaction. I mean, he just moves. He just moves and does his thing, oddly enough, he can get shot or stabbed or whatever, and there is a reaction, right?

It, it clearly hurts him, but you don’t hear a shout, right? You don’t see blood. He seems almost supernatural, except especially in this movie, you get constant reminders that he is a person. So where is his vulnerability? Like? Nobody really knows. Right. He seems to be able to just move in the shadows and almost effortlessly almost as though there’s an aura of protection around him.

Just walk away as another character who could take him out is coming into the scene. Right. That happened several times where it just almost seems to be a matter of coincidence that people just miss him, that he’s not ducking and hiding. He’s just able to be there and able to not be they’re able to just.

Ambled towards you and he’s still gonna get you. So yet, like you said, in the, in the very beginning of the film, And the, and the movie starts off with these two characters, Erin and Dana, who are going to see him in the mental hospital. They’re doing a podcast, I guess, which is very up-to-date. Right.

Craig: So lame

Todd: aside from the fact that they’re lame podcast,

Craig: the loser podcast hosts.

Todd: Nobody’s other podcasts are not quite as lame as ours, where they actually do investigative research and like break stories and stuff. And that’s kind of a thing, right. Where people have actually done these investigative podcasts and followed stories like journalists. And it’s a great format for that.

Not that for the shit we do, but, um,

anyway, Uh, well, so that’s kind of cool. And they go to visit the hospital and they meet up with dr. Sartain, who is, you know, he’s the Luma’s character. And I was like, Oh my gosh, of course, we’re going to get here’s Michael in the hospital. Again, here’s a doctor. Who’s obsessed with him again, who says basically the same things.

Craig: Catalyze being my life’s obsession. I’ve examined. Every single case filed, written on him. I was a student of dr. Lumis before he passed away. And then I lobbied the university of Illinois to be assigned to Michael myself. Any progress museum by over 50 clinical psychiatrists and with each one, the different opinions.

Dr. Loomis was the only one to see him in the wild. And they concluded that he was nothing more than fury.

Todd: Like you said, we never see his face, but he is in this odd, extreme isolation where he’s just chained to the ground in the middle of a yard. Well, spaced out, I should say socially distanced to the extreme from a number of other inmates in this huge yard with a big line drawn around him.

Like. Here’s the line to where he, you know, the chain stops him and they’re trying to talk to him. I mean, again, he said the guy has not talked in 61 years. Another thing that’s spooky about this guy, right? He doesn’t Quip. He doesn’t say a word and they just approach him from behind. And again, it’s like all, you can kind of see the tip of his nose.

You can kind of see the side of it. Face, but we’re never going to get that full on. And, um, this reporter, Aaron has this mask, uh, in his bag that he got and he holds it out and says, Michael, look at the mask, like, look at the mask is this there’s trying to incite him. And then it cuts to the credits. He

Craig: barely barely kind of glances.

Not even over his shoulder, just to the side a little bit, but then it’s, it’s, it’s weird and I’m not really sure what to make of this, but, um, all of the other patients and the guard dogs start to freak out almost as though Michael hat is. I don’t know how to say it without it sounding super cheesy, it doesn’t come off as super cheesy in the movie.

But almost as though the excitement or something that Michael feels at being close to the mask, the other patients can sense it and it agitates them and they all start to freak out. And it doesn’t make a lot of logical sense, but it makes for a very exciting, intense opening scene. And then, like you said, you do get the traditional credits, which is another thing that I love about this movie.

There are so many throwbacks that the font and color of the credits is exactly the same as the first movie. It’s the original score with just a few. Tweaks and modernizations the same imagery of, you know, the cameras coming in on a jack-o-lantern. But in this case, the jack-o-lantern is rotted, but then it comes back, uh, D rots, um, slowly

Todd: the zombie jack-o-lantern.

Craig: For for, for those of us who are fans of the franchise and especially the first movie it’s so nostalgic and it, it anchors it so firmly in the world of the original. Yeah. It’s fantastic. Yeah,

Todd: it is really exciting. Yeah. And just real quick, something just came to me when you were talking about the excitement of the mask.

I wonder. Maybe I’m thinking too deeply about this, but you know, there is kind of a phenomenon lately. Maybe you’ve heard of it, of people being nasty online. Yeah. You know, one thing that seems to be a problem nowadays is that people are able to mask themselves so well.

Craig: And

Todd: we used to think, well it’s because you could be anonymous online and you don’t have to put your real name.

And now we’ve kind of learned that doesn’t matter. Like you can put your real name out there and you can still somehow there’s this. Inclination and people to just be raw and say things they would never say to you in person face to face, but be kind behind sort of the mask of the computer screen.

People are empowered by that. And it’s interesting that Michael Meyer seems to need that mask. Just like you said in the beginning, like he’s there holding a mask out. It’s almost like this mask is so significant and, and he’s, he, he does maybe kind of want it and everybody else kind of around him, knows it after he breaks out.

One of the first things he does is go get his mask, you know? So I do wonder if there is a little bit of that. If we’re going to kind of. Equate this with the modern day and kind of what’s going on. There’s a lot of modern day in this movie with cell phones and texting and, um, which is also kind of nice because it’s a nice contrast actually, to Jamie Lee Curtis, his character who has just turned away from everything kind of disconnected herself from society.

Uh, here’s Michael Myers, evil personified coming relentlessly after people. And how many of us. Do maybe turn into a different person or have these sort of impulses that are more free when we are behind the mask of a, of a computer screen, you know?

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. The mask definitely seems to have major significance and we should say that.

Supposedly, this is the original mask from 40 years ago. Like the guy like got it from the district attorney or something, I don’t know, lame, but it’s the original mask and it looks great. You know, it’s the traditional design, but it’s very aged. Um, it, it looks fantastic. These two reporters, when they can’t get any reaction out of Michael, they think, well, let’s go talk to Laurie Strode, his victim.

Dumb and see if perhaps maybe one monster has created another. Um, and that’s kind of a major motif in the movie is the impact that these two characters have had on one another. Um, The doctor at some point says that both of them kind of only live for the other. Jamie Lee Curtis, his entire life is devoted to protecting herself and her family and, and she wants to kill Michael.

That’s what she is driven by. And Michael is driven solely by his desire to kill her, presumably, because she’s kind of the only one that got away, I guess. I guess the movie does, uh, remove yeah. The whole plot line of them being brother and sister, which was introduced in part two, which I think was smart.

I mean, I think it was smart to just completely divorce itself from all of the mythology established part two on it’s just, it’s just unnecessary. To have that relationship. It didn’t bother me in the original franchise, but I think it’s fine that they left it alone here. Wasn’t it? Her brother who like cold blooded murder, laded, all those teenagers.

No, that’s just a bit that some people made up to make them feel better. I think, I mean, that is scary to have a bunch of your friends get butchered by some random, crazy person, because all things considered. There’s a lot worse stuff that’s happening today. And like, I mean, what a couple of people getting killed by one guy with the knife is not that big of a deal, but they go to her house.

And like you said, it’s like Fort Knox. And she only opens the gate when they offer her money. Uh, they offer her $3,000 and they go in and Dana’s kind of interviewing her and saying, we wanted to talk to you to see, you know, to hear more of your story. She says, you know, we’ve done this before. We’ve talked about cold cases and other.

Crimes. And we’ve been able to unearth new insights and Laurie just looks at her and says, there’s nothing to learn. There are no new insights. They bait her a little bit. You know, they talk about her history. They say that she had two failed marriages, that she has a Rocky relationship with her daughter and her granddaughter.

The state took away her daughter at age 12 and she never got custody back. She still has a relationship with her daughter, but it’s strained and they want. To her to try to talk to Michael, to try to get him to talk.

Todd: There’s so naive.

Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s stupid. I mean, it’s, it’s really stupid. I mean sure. You know, it would be great for their podcast, you know, like that’d be fantastic if they could really get it to happen, but it also completely ignores her safety and sanity and you know, it’s exploitive.

Yeah, but she flat out rejects it and she only talks to them for a few minutes and then makes them go away. And then that’s when we’re introduced to her daughter, Karen, who’s played by Judy Greer, who is an actress who you have seen in every movie in the last 10 years. Um, she always plays second fiddle, always.

I think that she’s a great actress. I love her in this movie. Um, and she has a daughter. Alison played by a newcomer. Andy Marecek. Um, the role of Alison was kind of a lot of young. Up and coming actresses were vying for this role, but they decided to go with a relative unknown as they had with Jamie Lee Curtis in the original.

And Alison kind of takes on Jamie Lee Curtis’s role from the first movie. She’s the young teenage girl. There are so many parallels, like you said, like after a little bit of interaction with the family, Alison leaves. With her friends and they’re walking to school down the street in Haddonfield, in suburbia with all of the Halloween decorations out.

I mean, it’s, it’s all, but identical to the scene of Laurie. Walking with her friends in the early scenes of the movie. And then later you see Alison at school in a classroom and she turns and looks out the window and her grandmother, Jamie Lee Curtis is standing there just as Michael Myers was standing there.

When Jamie Lee Curtis was looking out that same window 40 years ago. Um, and it’s fan service. But it works. Like it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel cheesy or corny. It feels like Oman and it’s exciting and fun.

Todd: Well, and it serves the theme too. That there’s a part of each. That is the other, right. I mean, the, the monster is.

Perhaps created the monster. So Jamie Lee Curtis is like Michael Myers in a way in that she’s creeping out there that she’s a little obsessive, you know, can’t get past this one note, you know, that she has now. So, I mean, yeah, just kind of putting her in the place of him. Visually hits that home. One thing that struck me, especially as I went back and watched the original talking about how this franchise is, or at least the first movie or so it was really quite unique.

And that is how much of suburbia we really get. I mean, don’t get me wrong. Nightmare on Elm street takes place in suburbia, too. However, these streets are just kind of the quiet. Empty suburban streets outside any town, you know, it’s just, I mean like where you and I, Craig spent a lot of time,

Craig: that’s it?

And

Todd: as you watch it and you realize you’re watching a horror movie, you realize how creepy this could in fact be because. If you travel around to Europe and to a lot of other countries, this same sort of town or the same sort of streets would be filled with people like Pete will be out in the yard.

People would be using the sidewalks and here it’s quite empty. And it isn’t the first movie and it is in this as well. Like of course they’re walking home from school or they’re walking to school because school happens to be nearby, but they’re pretty much the only people on the street. And so. There moments where in the original Michael Myers, just sort of it’s there and then he’s there.

And middle of the day, you still feel like something could go down here. And probably even nobody would notice just a bit of the tragedy of the suburbs as well, you know, but that, like you just said, that has been recreated. And in this movie too, and a lot of that. Really hasn’t changed in the last, since that time.

Right. So it’s really eerie. And actually in that way,

Craig: yeah, it still works. I mean, you’re right. As much as things have changed, many things, haven’t, you know, I live in a small town just like. That really probably smaller really, but you know, my street is a very sleepy street. Yeah. There’s kids out playing sometimes and you see people walking their dogs by, but it’s just, I don’t know.

It feels very rooted. Yeah. In reality, in that way, Alison and Laurie have a talk where Alison basically says to Laurie, look, you’ve let this consume your whole life. You’ve just got to let it go. And obviously that’s very naive. Alison by the end of the movie might understand why Laurie is unable to let all of this go at this point, but they talk about, um, Laurie’s relationship with Allison’s mom, Karen, and how it’s strained and why she was taken away.

All this hiding, all this preparation. It was for nothing. I mean, it took priority over your family. It costs you your family. If the way I raised your mother. Instead, she hates me, but then she’s prepared for the horse, this world. Then I can live with that. So human and real, you know, this, her kid was taken away from her because.

She is an extremist. Uh, you know, I guess the, or whatever felt that teaching her 12 year old daughter to shoot guns and set booby traps and stuff was inappropriate, but she was doing it out of love protection as much as it clearly pain, sir, because she tears up. When the interviewers ask her about her daughter, it clearly pains her that their relationship is strained.

She doesn’t regret it. She would do it again. It’s interesting. And it pays off in an instant.

Todd: It really does. And let me just point out again, you know, after watching the first movie, to be honest, this is a character in need of redemption. If you go back and watch the movie as much as she’s the final girl and in so many horror movies, the final girl.

Sort of the bad-ass or at least as the one that is able to just rise a little bit above everybody else and be just slightly smarter or just more tenacious to get through it. And so we really respect them. You go back and watch that original and it’s, it’s a miracle. She lived through it. She makes all the wrong moves.

You know, she does the cliche go upstairs when she supposed to go outside, she fricking. Locks the kids in one room while she goes into hides in a closet in another room, leaving the kids to peril and putting herself in a situation where she has no control. And she’s like this through the entire movie.

So you can see not only. What did she leave that film traumatized, but probably looking back on the situation, she’s probably thinking the same thing. I was lucky to get out of there. I’m not going to make that same mistake again. And so again, like she’s perfectly set up for this great character arc and you really love her in this movie because of it.

Right.

Craig: Right. Even though she’s tortured and probably not terribly pleasant to be around like

Todd: no fun.

Craig: There’s a family, a family celebration dinner with Alison and her. Parents and her boyfriend, Cameron, they’re celebrating the fact that Alison got into the national honors society or something. Alison is mad at her mom cause she thinks that her mom intentionally didn’t invite her grandmother, but she did.

Um, and Laurie, Laurie does show up. And what they don’t know is that this happens to be Halloween 40 years to the day that. All of the stuff from the original movie went down and also, coincidentally, this is also the day that Michael is going to be transferred to a different facility. Uh, he’s not going to be studied anymore.

He’s just going to be locked away forever. And Lori has gone to. The, the place where he was and she, she watches them, bring out the prisoners, including Michael. And she’s sitting there with a gun as though she intends to try to shoot him as he’s being transferred, but she can’t bring up the nerve to do it.

And when she gets to the dinner, she’s already been drinking and she grabs a glass of wine off the table and starts drinking. And Karen’s mad at her and says, you know, you promised you wouldn’t. Drink and whatnot. And Lori sits down and really just kind of breaks down and starts weeping and says, I saw him, I wanted to kill him, but I didn’t know what to do.

And like I said, as much of a bad ass as she is, she is still fragile in some ways, like as much as she wanted to, as long as she’s been waiting for this date, when presented with this opportunity, though, it wasn’t a good opportunity. How she would have gotten by the guards or any other number of factors.

You know, it probably wouldn’t have worked out, but she couldn’t get herself to do it in that moment. Um, and she ends up getting in, running out and Alison follows her, but Lori just walks away and that’s when. Karen Allison’s mom tells her the story of her growing up and we see it in flashback, all of the weapons, training, tactical training, all that stuff.

And it’s kind of a cool flashback section, but then we get to, we, we cut immediately to this father and son in a car. Having an interesting conversation where the son is talking about how he really likes going hunting with his dad, but he really wishes they could do it on the weekend because he’s having to miss his dance class.

Um, and I, I, I did too. Are you sure that I read that, uh, David Gordon green, the director was involved in dance. When he was young. And so this was kind of a little personal Omar, but they come across the bus that had been transferring Michael and other inmates is crashed along the side of the road. And these inmates are just very creepily walking around in the dark, in the middle of the road.

And the dad gets out to go check to see what’s going on. And the kid calls the cops, but he doesn’t know exactly where they are. So he gets out with his gun cause they were going hunting a rifle. He finds. A cop who appears to be dead, but is not really in the cop, tells him just to run. But instead he goes to look for his dad and he gets on the bus.

And the doctor who had been a squirting, Michael is still on the bus and he pops up unexpectedly and says, don’t shoot. But he frightens the kid and the kid shoots him. So the kid runs back to the car, hoping to get help. And Michael kills. Him. And this is a young kid and I’m not surprised that the movie went here.

Um, I’m, I’m almost a little bit glad that it did, because one of the things that I do like about Michael in this movie, Is that he is brutal, but it seems that he’s not just indiscriminately killing people. He’s just kind of killing the people well, that are in the way, you know, like there, there was one scene, there was one kill that I was, I really didn’t understand.

We’ll get there in a second, but for the most part part, it’s just kind of people who get in his way to getting. To Laurie. And the other thing that I like about this movie is that the kills are brutal and very violent and graphic sometimes, but also economical. Rob zombie’s remakes are very interesting in their own.

Right. And I liked them when they came out, but comparing them to this movie, the Michael and Rob zombie’s movies, is it it’s, it’s almost as though he takes pleasure. In killing people and it, the kill scenes are so drawn out. Like he beats poor Daniel Harris to, within an inch of her life over a long period of time.

I mean, it’s, it’s just masochistic. It’s horrible in this. Yes. It’s very violent and it’s very bad. Brutal, but it’s also economical. Like he’s just gonna kill ya and it’s, he’s not going to take his time about it.

Todd: Yeah. And then he’s just walking away

Craig: and then he’s gonna walk away. Yeah. And I guess that the guy who played him actually talked to some.

Killers about their methods and the writer director thought about it too, and thought, yeah, you know, these, these true killers, they’re just, they’re getting the job done. They’re not messing around. They’re not playing with you. They’re just getting the job done. And I like that about him in this movie. So he kills this kid, but.

It’s quick and then he’s got a car. And like you said, that’s when he goes to get his mask.

Todd: So we get back to Aaron and Dana, the two reporters and they, with the mask in the trunk of their car, pull into a gas station. Now I really wasn’t. I kind of expected us to see Aaron and Dana. For more of the movie, I thought they might be getting in the way I thought they might be egging things on.

I thought the movie was going to take a little bit of that turn, but actually no, Michael just goes and kills them and takes the mask. There is a terrifying scene in the bathroom of this rest stop where Dana has gone in there to use the toilet. And as she’s. In there. She sees these feet come in and he goes, opens one stall, opens the next, all opens the next, finally gets to her.

I don’t remember exactly how it all went down, but I just remember being extremely uncomfortable. She does put up quite a fight. She’s on the floor. He’s pulling her out. But yeah, this is probably I, if I’m not mistaken, this is might be the most brutal kill scene in the movie.

Craig: Well, yeah, I mean, it is one Aaron intervenes, um, as she’s being attacked and Michael brutally kills him by smashing his head against every hard surface

Todd: bathroom

Craig: bathroom.

Yeah. And then, then once he is incapacitated, but not yet dead. So he gets to see. Dana be murdered. Also, he gets a hold of her and he picks her up by the neck and snaps her neck. And this happens several times when Michael is strangling somebody that he’s strangling them for a few seconds, but then their neck breaks and they’re just dead.

Uh, and I felt like that was. Realistic too, you know, somebody’s holding you up by your neck and you’re struggling. Chances are your neck might break good for before you succumb to suffocation, but yeah, that’s brutal, but then he gets the mask and. We use the word iconic so much. I feel like we overuse it, but it feels iconic when he reaches into their car and pulls out the mask and puts it on in broad daylight with tons of people around.

And not only has he killed those two, but he also killed everybody else in the gap, like all the employees and the guests.

Todd: Oh. And that’s how, uh, Michael kind of signaled to her that she was next is he dropped some bloody teeth. Right down on the ground, right under the stall there

Craig: ripped a guy’s jaw completely out and apparently ripped his teeth out to, uh, it’s on the news that he’s escaped.

And Lori hears it. We see that she has a secret basement under her kitchen Island, which is important later she goes, uh, Laurie goes in Warren’s Karen. She scares Karen in her own home. She says, look, he he’s out. We have to find him. We have to kill him. Karen and her husband, who’s a nice guy. I never wrote his name down, but he’s, you know, this nice kind of funny dad or whatever, but they kick her out.

And so she goes to the crime scene where we’re introduced to, uh, captain Hawkins, who was one of the officers in the original film and the actor reprises his role and Hawkins sees her there. And. Hawkins knows because he’s dealt with Michael before how serious this is, but then we get trick-or-treaters and I love it.

You know, it’s nighttime, there’s trick-or-treaters three of them are wearing the silver Shamrock masks from part three. Right. It was,

Todd: it was unmistakable.

Craig: There’s also no Mazda part two. One of the little kids is dressed as a kid from the eighties, holding a big boombox up to his ears and Michael bumps into him as he did with somebody holding a big boombox up to his.

Head and part two, even though they ignored all of the backstory, there are images to every movie in the franchise and you can read about them on IMD B, but like I said, he’s just out there amongst everybody. And he goes into just casually, you know, like he just walks through this town. That’s what I’m sexually.

Todd: Well, and the shot is great because it’s one of these geek shots where it’s all one take it’s one very, very long take following him around. And it’s so cool to see that because, well, of course it’s Halloween. So a guy walking around with a big mask on, even with the knife in his hand, isn’t going to, you know, raise too much, too many waves, but just to kind of like.

For a moment just to be in his head and see his modus operandi, where he just goes down the street, looks at the trick or treaters bumps into one turns down, walks into the shed, picks up a hammer, casually walks into this house where there’s a woman in the kitchen, uh, and then just walks into the kitchen and we don’t see it, which I actually really liked, but she kind of goes off frame for a second and he follows her there and he just.

You can hear it in your imaginations. Probably worse. Beats her to death with a hammer. And then the camera goes in, we see the aftermath and we follow him with a hammer. He goes out, he goes to a different house. I mean, it’s like, it’s really cool actually for a moment in this movie to be with him again, kind of like we were with him in the, in the beginning of the first movie, right.

The opening scene. Right?

Craig: Right. Well, after he kills that woman and gets her big knife. By the way everybody in this town has enormous kitchen knives. If they’re like butchering hogs,

Todd: whatever, that’s what it is

Craig: after he kills that woman and he gets the knife, he walks through the house and you hear a baby crying and.

He walks up to the bassinet kind of, but then he just turns and walks away and he doesn’t kill the baby. And I remember when the movie came out that that was kind of a point of discussion for fans. Like why didn’t he, you know, if he’s just pure evil, why wouldn’t he kill the baby? But I think. For me, it makes sense because there’s no reason to, he doesn’t need to, like I said before, it’s kind of like, he’s just killing the people who are in his way and the baby’s not in his way, you know?

So he just walks away and leaves it. But that leads to the next kill, where he walks up to this lady’s house and she’s on the phone and she’s talking to somebody named Sally and she’s like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t hear well, I’ll make sure to keep my doors locked. So somebody has called her about Michael escaping.

But I don’t know who this woman is supposed to be. And he kills her. And this is the only kill that I didn’t understand his motivation for, because as far as I could tell, she wasn’t in the way and he didn’t get anything from her. So I don’t know if that character was supposed to be somebody. That I should know who she is.

I felt like they were hitting us over the head with her keeps saying, Oh yes, Sally, I’ll be very careful, Sally. Like, I felt like there was supposed to be some connection.

Todd: It was another homage to one of the other movies. Okay.

Craig: If so, I didn’t read about it. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. Then we go to the Halloween dance where.

Alison and Cameron are dressed as Bonnie and Clyde, but like gender swapped, it’s kind of cute. And there’s silly high school business with them. She gets a phone call from her friend, Vicky, who is babysitting, which is, you know, classic callback to the original, but she’s, she’s babysitting this kid named Julian this little boy.

And he is so funny. Like

Todd: he is a smart ass little kid.

Craig: He is hilarious. You telling your friends to come over here and you’re going to smoke some weed? No, no, the Alexan Julian. I’m talking about like a, you know, like a mad magic trick, like abracadabra. I know you talking about smoking weed. Don’t lie to me.

That’s against the rules. I’m telling my mom. Well, I’m going to tell your mom about your browser history. You better not. You can get me in trouble. I can get you in trouble. Um, he used to be my favorite, but now you’re like my 10th favorite boy that I nanny and I babysit some fucking, those are kids. Find some other kind of babysitter.

She’d be reading me a story. I wouldn’t be up. Couple of my nasty ass toenails. You used to be cool. We used to be friends, but nah, give this kid his own movie. He was so funny, but when she gets off the phone, Alison sees her boyfriend kiss another girl in the five seconds that she’s been away from him. He has gotten shit faced drunk.

He, he kisses another girl and he’s a Dick about it. And her phone rings and it’s her grandmother, but he grabs the phone from her and throws it in a big punch bowl, full of

why was there a big punch bowl, full of

Todd: pudding, so many questions,

Craig: but she’s without her phone now.

Todd: And th this is a neat way of dealing with the whole cell phone issue, right? Because actually her phone’s been ringing, uh, Lori has been trying to text her and call her a couple times. She ignored it once she didn’t see it, her phone’s ringing and he happens to be there to grab her and throw in her pudding.

It’s a neat way of dealing with the whole cell phone issue. Like why, why isn’t everybody informed by now that there’s this killer on the loose, especially the people at the high school dance. Right,

Craig: right. Then we go back to Vicki and her boyfriend, Dave shows up and they start making out or whatever, but they hear a noise upstairs.

And Julian comes running downstairs saying that he saw somebody standing in the hall, watching him. And, uh, Vicky’s like, okay, I’ll go check it out. And Julian’s like, Cindy, first

he goes in the room to check it out and she messes with him like, Oh sir, I need you to leave. But then she pops out and scares. I’m like, there’s nobody in there. She puts him back to bed and they have a sweet little moment. And he says, can you close the closet? And she goes to close the closet, but it’s like, there’s something in the way.

And when she opens the door to see what’s in the way. There’s Michael and he slashes her and Julian goes, Oh, shit gets up, runs out.

Todd: He is not a hero. He is a smart guy, Julian.

Craig: And he runs down and he, he gets to Dave and he’s like, Dave, you got to. If you try to help her you’ll die. And then he just runs away some smart kid.

Todd: I have, I wasn’t seeing, I wasn’t seeing her death coming either. I mean, it shouldn’t surprise.

Craig: It was sad because she was pretty nice. Yeah. And, uh, we don’t, he kills Dave off screen. We see Dave’s body later. Um, yeah. But there’s a call, like, I guess probably Julian ran to a neighbor’s or something. And so there’s a call for a domestic disturbance and both Hawkins and Laurie hear it because Lori has a police scanner in her car, and she’s been driving around looking for Michael too.

So they both show up there. Hawkins goes inside and finds Vicki’s body draped in a sheet, a ghost sheet. Laurie sees Michael. In one of the bedroom windows, and it appears that he sees her too, and she aims her gun and fires and it looks like she hits him in the head. But as it turns, turns out what she had seen was really just a reflection in the mirror.

So, um, Hawkins is pursuing from inside. Lori’s pursuing from outside. Michael comes out and like you said, is just kind of ambling along, not running or anything. Um, and Laurie gets a shot and, and, and shoots him, like gets him, I think, in the shoulder, but then somehow he disappears.

Todd: This is the thing I don’t understand about this character.

I guess it’s part of the enigma, but he, I don’t, I don’t, I haven’t seen all the six sequels Craig, I think I’ve seen the first two, but this guy can get a good shot. He can get stabbed all this stuff of fall from a window and then he’s gone. What’s the deal. Well, are we supposed to think he’s supernatural in a way, or is that just supposed to be ambiguous?

Craig: Four or five and six set it up that he was supernatural, but the earlier ones did not. He’s just a guy. And I think it’s just because he’s such a big guy and because he’s crazy that these injuries, they are, I mean, he is injured and later Laurie shoots off some of his fingers and they’re gone, you know, like, and he’s bleeding and in pain, I think he’s just supposed to be.

Very strong. It’s not particularly realistic, but, but I, I don’t think that he’s supposed to be supernatural. I think he’s just supposed to be a guy, but he gets away again. And spar Tane. The doctor shows up on scene and Hawkins introduces him to her and she says, Oh, so you’re the new lumen, what the audience is saying too.

Todd: It’s

Craig: hilarious. And she tells him, I pray every night that he would escape and Hawkins, I think says, why would you do that? And she says, so I can kill him. And she turns and walks away. Alison is walking. I, I’m not sure where she’s going. I think that she’s going. To the house where Vicki was. Um, but she’s walking with Oscar who is Cameron’s goofy friend, the, the cops and Lori show up at Karen’s house and get her in the husband.

And Karen’s freaking out because she can’t get Alison on her phone. Cause Alison doesn’t have her phone. Oscar makes a move on Alison, which she totally rejects and she walks away and he’s drunk and sitting in the backyard of this house and he turns around. And he sees Michael standing behind him. He thinks it’s the owner of the house.

So he’s just talking to him kind of casually and then he gets killed. But in a pretty brutal way, he ends up getting stabbed, but also impaled through the head on the top of a big spiky fence that he’s hanging from. And Alison hears. Him screaming for help. So she runs back and she he’s already dead, but she and Michael see each other.

So she runs and screams and starts beating on doors. And eventually. The police do arrive and they get her and Hawkins says, we’re going to take you to your mom and Karen and Lori and her and Karen’s husband are all at Laurie’s house. And Laurie says, he’s waited for this night. He’s waited for me. I’ve waited for him.

Come on, Michael. And then this next scene Hawkins and Sartain are in the front of the police car. And. Uh, Alison is in the back and they tell Alison to keep an eye out because all of this has happened very soon. They say he can’t be far, he’s gotta be around. And they do in fact, find him, which led up to.

I don’t know, this scene just really surprised me. I didn’t see it coming, I guess.

Todd: Do you know what I’m talking about? Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. This is when they, they come up upon Michael Myers, he’s in the road and they run and he gets hit. Right.

Craig: Hawkins runs him down with the

Todd: car, so he’s down.

And so he is on the ground and a Hawkins gets out with his gun and goes over to check on him. And it appears that he is. Going to kill him.

Craig: Well, the doctor runs up to him and doctors there first. Yeah. The doctor runs up to him and says, he’s dead. And Hawkins says, I don’t care. I’m going to blow his brains out anyway, which so smart.

You know, like if only more people in horror movies would do this, the movies would be so much shorter, but Sartain pulls out what looks like a pen out of his, uh, shirt. Pocket and pulls out a knife and stabs Hawkins in the neck and kills him. And I didn’t Sartain has seemed a little bit unhinged, like he’s, he’s obsessed.

He’s clearly obsessed with, he has a clinical detachment

Todd: with what’s going on because of his obsession with Michael. Yeah.

Craig: Even he, he had said at some point that he just wishes that he knew what it was. Felt like, you know, to, to be in Michael’s head or, or how these events, the events that have happened, how they’ve affected Michael and turned him into what he is.

And he’s so obsessed with it that he kills Hawkins. And then he puts on Hawkins his coat and he puts on Michael’s mask for a minute, almost like he just kind of wants to be in his head and he picks up Michael and puts him in the back seat with Alison. Which gets a cop car. So they’re stuck back there.

She can’t get out. And Sartain starts driving apparently towards Laurie’s house and says, I’ve never seen Michael in the wild. I want to observe him in his natural habitat. So it’s like, he’s going to take Michael to Lori and release him there. But before they get there, Michael wakes up, puts the mask back on.

Cause Sartain had thrown it in the floorboard of the backseat of the car. Alison. Get Sartain to stop by saying he talked to me, I saw him earlier and he talked to me and Sartain says, what did he say? And she says just one word. And if you, if you pull over and let me go, I’ll tell you. And he, he, he does pull over and he’s asking her, but not letting her out.

And they’re kind of screaming at one another. When Michael wakes up, puts his mask back on and then busts the cage forward and gets out, pulls Sartain out of the car. Alison gets out of the car and starts running too through the woods. I don’t even know if she knows where she’s going. She ends up at Laurie’s house eventually.

And then, uh, Sartain is laying on the ground and says to Michael, just say something. And Michael just looks at him and then picks up his foot and. Herb stomps him smashes his whole head,

Todd: smashes his head with this

Craig: and there’s brains

Todd: everywhere asked me what I thought of it, to be honest, I think earlier I said, I could find no fault with this movie.

I’m going to take that back. This bit, struck me as a little contrived and overly dramatic. I. I don’t know, I, of course it could happen, right? There’s this doctor he’s obsessed with a patient and he himself might become a little unhinged at some point. Maybe the idea is that Michael has had some kind of influence over him as well.

And so he’s turned him evil or maybe the evil’s catching and spreading. I don’t know. I felt like it was a contrived plot device to keep the movie going. I don’t really feel like a doctor is even an unhinged. I don’t know. Of course he’s supposed to be out of hand, you know, but like a, doctor’s not gonna, you’d have to be the, he basically have to be a criminal to, he couldn’t be as old as this guy is as much as he studied Michael and all this to think that he’s just going to murder others so that he can have the opportunity to, uh, set Michael free.

And I guess the implication is that he. Set him free by somehow causing the car accident in the first one?

Craig: I think so there’s nothing, not sure

Todd: we’ve been clear about it, but I mean, he is oddly enough, the only one alive in that van and you do kind of wonder. Why everybody else is dead and he seems to be alive and kicking.

So yeah, I, wasn’t a huge fan of this twist. And as soon as he died, you know, I forgot about it. And cause, cause it gets us to where we need to be anyway. Right. Which is the big face off between Michael and Lauren, which is what we’re all going for.

Craig: Yeah. I thought, I thought it was kind of stupid too, but to be fair.

Throughout the franchise, dr. Loomis did some pretty questionable things to, um, Lumis in some of the sequels would intentionally put innocent people in danger to try to lure Michael places or to get Michael to do certain things. Um, I don’t think that he ever. Killed anybody or intended to kill anybody, but he definitely did some questionable things.

So there are still shades of Donald Pleasants is Lumis here. Donald Pleasants also has, um, presence in the movie. There’s there’s sketches of him. There’s voice recordings of him. He passed away before he was in part five. I think it was. And he was in it, but then it, or maybe it was six. I don’t remember, but it was one of the ones that went, it went through so many.

Reshoots and, and script changes that. If you watch the theatrical release, it doesn’t even really make any sense. There’s a, producer’s cut this supposedly makes more sense, but I’ve never seen it anyway. You’re right. Getting to the good part. The big showdown the cops saw some of this, like all of this happened just down the street from Laurie’s house.

And there were two guards posted there and they saw kind of something going on, but they weren’t sure what it was. So they pull up there kind of in the aftermath and. We don’t see what happens. All we see next is the cop car pulls up in front of Laurie’s house. And Allison’s dad goes out to ask them if there’s any.

Updates on where Alison is and he opens the door and the cops are both dead in the car. One of them is sitting in the driver’s seat. The other one has the other cops head in his lap and Michael has made it into a jack-o-lantern hollowed it out and put some kind of light inside it. So it is, it’s a human ed jack-o-lantern

Todd: he clearly he had, he had some time on his hands.

He’s a more creative person than we’ve ever given him credit for. So, you know,

Craig: he wanted to set up a nice little scene and, um, And then I knew this was coming. It still makes me kind of sad. The, the dad gets killed, Michael, strangles him for a while and then breaks his neck. I figured it was going to happen.

It made me, it made me sad cause I felt bad for Karen and Alison, but I think that it’s also in keeping, because like I said, now, Karen and Al maybe we’ll understand why Lori is, is the way that she has been.

Todd: They’ll appreciate her more.

Craig: Right. Should learn to create

Todd: your grandmother more. It’ll bring

Craig: Navy this’ll, it’ll bring them closer together.

Michael. Then Laurie is standing by the front door, like waiting for Michael to arrive. And he busts his arms through the glass of the door and gets a hold of her head and her throat. And they struggle for a while and it really looks like he’s going to get the better of her.

Todd: It does,

Craig: but she ends up, she’s got a rifle and they struggle with it for awhile.

And then she’s able to. Fire it, and it blows off like three of the fingers on one of his hands and she’s able to get away. So she turns on all of her floodlights and she and Karen go down into that secret basement. Michael is in the house. Lori shoots up through the floorboards and it sounds like she got him.

So she says, I have to finish this. And she goes up and she goes looking for him all over their house. And she thinks that he’s in the closet much. Like she had hid in the closet, but he’s not. And she is like sealing off rooms one by one. Like she’s got like these amazing metal, like rolling trap doors that comes down our block.

Todd: It’s smart. Yeah.

Craig: She ends up in the dummy room. Like she’s got a shooting range on her house where she does target practice with dummies. And apparently she stores them in one of the rooms in her house and it’s really creepy and he ends up jumping out at her and they struggle. I think she gets stabbed a little bit.

And then he throws her out the window just as he was thrown out the window in the first movie. And it’s a total throwback. He looks and she’s there. Then Alison comes in the house and he hears that. So he looks away. And when he looks back, she’s gone, Karen here’s Alison. So she gets her down in the basement with her.

And then Michael is. He heard them, I guess. And so he, um, is messing with the Island and eventually he rips it off. And this is my favorite part of the movie. Um, Karen is down there and she looks at the arsenal of her mom’s guns and she grabs one that has her initials carved into it. So obviously this was her gun from when she was a child and she’s standing there and she pushes Alison off to the side.

And when Michael throws away the Island. She screams for her mom and she’s crying and she’s saying, mom, mom, I need you help. I can’t do it. I’m sorry. I can’t do it. And she’s crying and she’s so distraught. And then Michael steps into the stairwell and immediately her entire demeanor changes. She gets very serious and she just goes gotcha.

And she shoots him. And I don’t remember, I think she got him in the, maybe the shoulder or maybe. She grazed his head. I don’t remember, but that was one of my favorite fake-out scenes in any movie ever. And I thought Judy Greer played it so great. And it was so satisfying that, you know, she, she hit it. She lured him into range.

By playing vulnerable. And as it turns out, she’s not vulnerable because her mother prepared her and I love it.

Todd: Great. And it faked me out to me too. It was great. He falls into the basement. I think that he grabs out at her again.

Craig: Laurie stabs him from behind, which causes him to fall into the,

Todd: Oh, that’s it.

He gets knocked in there. Grabs Karen’s leg.

Craig: Yes. And tries to pull her back down. But Alison grabs. The big kitchen knife and slashes Adam slashes his, his hand and he lets go and they pull Karen out and Lori hits a button and these huge like swords or spikes shoot across the entrance. And Karen says to Alison, I know you thought that was a cage because, uh, Laurie had said something similar to Karen earlier.

I know you thought that this was my cage and then. When they had been down there, Karen was freak or Alison was freaking out saying, Oh, we’re trapped in a cage. And then Alison says, or Karen says, it’s not a cage. It’s a trap. So Laurie has had this plan for ever, and they are, and they executed it. And then Laurie flips some other switches and gas starts shooting out from all of these various vents and hoses.

She lights some flare and throws it down in the basement, the gastric nights. And Michael just stands there and looks up at them as the flames. Surround him. And it’s just such a cool character thing. Like we talked about how he’s pretty much unfazed, you know, when he gets shot or when he gets injured.

And in this part, when he’s an imminent peril, it’s almost as though he’s still unfazed. There’s nothing he can do. He’s trapped down there and he just stands there and looks at them. And they run out and Alison flags down a truck. And the last scene that we see is them in the bed of the truck, the three Strode women, um, all of them having had to face up against Michael at this point, just sitting.

You know, quietly in the back of the truck as it drives away. And that’s the end and the trailer for the next one, Halloween kills is out and it looks like it picks up exactly where it leaves off here. Um, you see them in the back of the truck and then you see a firetruck fly by and you hear Lori scream.

No, let him burn, let him burn. And that’s kind of all. See, that’s kind of all you see in the trailer. Um, but John Carpenter, when this movie came out, said, definitively, this is going to be the last Michael Myers Halloween movie, even though film makers were contractually obligated to option SQL. And initially they had planned to shoot two movies back to back, but they said, you know what, let’s take it slow.

Let’s do this first one and learn from it. And then see if we want to move forward. Well, by the time it was finished, The SQL was already lit and they green-lit two additional SQLs. So Halloween kills has already filmed. It’s complete. I don’t think it’s going to come out until 20, 21 sometime because of the pandemic, but it’s done.

And they still plan to do Halloween ends, which I really hope they get to do. It makes me a little nervous. Jamie Lee Curtis is not a spring chicken. I think that she’s in perfect health, but you know, you never know. Um, so I hope they get to finish it out because I so enjoyed this movie. I’m looking forward to the next one.

I just feel like they’ve really kind of caught lightning in a bottle. With this, uh, it just turned out so well,

Todd: I’m totally with you on that. I feel like, uh, yeah, except for that little bit in there really the rest of the movie, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was really into it and it. Really gave me a new appreciation for the character.

I thought it really rounded out Lori’s character very well. And it made me so interested to see what these next two generation of women are going to be facing. And these knowing that there are two more movies coming, I thought it was great. They all got a stabbing or a gunshot in at him at the end. You know, it was very apropos.

And so, uh, yeah, it’ll be interesting to see where it goes. I I’m I’m I think I’ll be coming a new fan. Of the franchise simply because of this film I saw, uh, Rob zombie’s Halloween and I got tiresome. I felt like it went on really long and was just violence for the sake of violence. And after awhile I was just kind of bored.

So, Oh, uh, this does, I think exactly what it set out to do and put a proper CQL. Onto the original that extends the story in a way that’s going to be a little more sophisticated, you know, going forward and really interesting. The kind of thing you can only do, you know, what is it? 40 years later

Craig: or years later?

Todd: Oh God. You’re right. Hopefully everyone’s going to

Craig: stay alive.

Todd: Finish it out

Craig: at this point. I don’t even know how many Halloween movies there are. I think 10, 11, 12, something like that. It’s crazy. Um, But yeah, this, this, uh, and Jamie Lee Curtis said that she thinks that this movie lives up to the original and, and I agree with her.

Huh. So, anyway, I’m glad we did it. I’m glad we talked about it and I think it’s perfect for the Halloween season. Totally puts me in the Halloweens. So happy Halloween loyal listeners. We thank you for sticking with us for all these years. And, uh, I don’t think we have any plans of slowing down anytime soon.

So thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it and you haven’t already listened to our back episodes, uh, there’s a whole catalog of back episodes that you can access where you can find us pretty much anywhere you can find. Um, podcasts. We’re on Google podcasts. We’re on, uh, iTunes, Stitcher all over the place.

You can Google us two guys in a chainsaw podcast. You can find our webpage and our Facebook page, where we have a lot of fun interacting with you. You can leave us a post on the page or you can PM us. And we do everything that we can to get back to everybody. And if you have any requests, we will certainly add them to the list until next time I’m Craig.

And I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week’s Halloween-appropriate film is a Mel Brooks-ish wannabe that launched to a splash in 1985 and landed with a thud because…well, it’s just not that funny.

Not that it doesn’t try. With an all-star cast helmed by Jeff Goldblum, Ed Begley Jr., and a super-sexy Gina Davis, it should’ve worked at some level. But maybe the Du Pont Chemical Corporation just isn’t cut out to produce films after all. Anyway, even if the laughs are groaners and come from the least-intended places, you could do worse for Halloween. We tend to appreciate this kind of Universal-movie-monster stuff this time of year a little better. Thanks, Vincent, for the request!

Transylvania 6-5000 (1985)

Episode 232, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And today we are very happy to have a special guest on our show. Simone, very big friend of the show. You’ve been a guest on our show. A couple of times say hello to the people, Simone.

Simone: Hey everyone. It’s so good to be back. Very, very long overdue, but I am. So happy to be here today.

Craig: I was trying to think it’s, it’s literally been years, right?

Simone: Since,

yeah. Cause the last episode that was recorded, I think it was like right before I was moving home from Beijing, so,

Craig: Oh gosh. Wow.

Todd: Well, if Simone is on the show, then you know what we’re doing? It, it has to be. Uh, Jeff Goldblum movie, it’s been a couple years. Simone. Why don’t you explain to all of us, your undying love for Jeff Goldblum.

Simone: Okay. Wow. Where do I start?

Todd: Um, we only have an hour.

Simone: Um, my deep love for JGB as I, I guess apparently scribbled down on my notes, but juggle bloom, um, I just think is fantastic and so weird and quirky and yeah, I’ve just been a big, long time fan and I’m on my 25th birthday at a drastic park theme birthday, right. And I was able to get Jeff Goldbloom printed on my birthday cake that year.

Um, and it was the picture of him, like with his shirt, halfway on buttons, kind of like lying down. Um, and, and a few years ago for the holidays, a friend had gifted me, um, a Jeff Goldbloom sequin pillows. So like one way when you got the sequence, it’s like a glittery pillow and then the other side reveals it.

That’s a very fun conversation piece in my house.

Todd: You know, Goldbloom has been with us for a while and he’s been in so many movies, but it seems like lately he’s one of these guys almost like Keanu Reeves. Who’s becoming. A little more popular lately. Like people suddenly think he’s cooler than they used to think he was.

Right. I mean, you’ve always thought he was cool. Of course, I know that, but he’s kind of a, you know, I mean, he has his own unique way of speaking and his own, you know, way of acting. And he’s a, I guess he’s a handsome looking man in his own way, but you know, he’s, he’s been in a number of. Of films from comedies to serious things to dramas.

He played the devil in a movie once. And so he does have a wide range, but lately I’ve seen him a little grayer with his glasses on and suits doing kind of goofy commercials on TV. Yeah.

Simone: Yeah. And he got really into the jazz music scene. He’s a really talented piano or piano player and, um, Even a chef, like he opened up a small food truck called chef gold.

Todd: Yeah,

Simone: I think that’s because I don’t know if it’s because Disney had picked him up and he had made appearances and, um, Thor, Ragnarok, and then he had, uh, a show airing on Disney plus. Um, and so I don’t know, it’s because he’s starting to appeal to like a wider audience now that you just see him more.

Craig: I loved him and Thor, Ragnarok.

I thought he was great. It’s a good movie. And I actually thought about you this week because I saw that he recently recreated that photo that you were just talking about, the, the open shirt photo. Did you see it?

He’s still looking good at like what? 64, something like that. I was impressed.

Todd: It’s taped to the ceiling above her bed right now, Craig. We all know this well, the reason we brought Simone on is we do have another Jeff Goldbloom movie week is a, we’re celebrating our second week of the Halloween season.

Craig and I, as you know, if you’ve been listening to this show for very long, always try to do some Halloween ask or themed movies, movies that take place in Halloween movies to get you the Halloween spirit during this month. And so, uh, this week I just happened to see a request. From one of our listeners Vincent asking for Transylvania six, 5,000.

And I thought, Oh my gosh. So I haven’t seen that since it came out. When I was a kid, when I was a kid, my dad took me to see it in the theater. I just remember this was around the same time as Ghostbusters, I think 1985. And I remember this movie getting a lot of promotion on television. There were the previews for it, and this song, the theme song for it was kind of catchy.

And that was kind of playing in my head at the time. And I guess my dad thought I remember this specifically because it was PG 13, but he was like, Hmm. Okay. I can take you. And I was pretty excited because from all the previews I had seen, Gina Davis, um, has a bit of cleavage in there and I thought, Hmm, this is going to be a good movie.

As long as dad doesn’t reach over and try to cover my eyes up. And you know, the saucy parts, as it turns out. The only thing I remember about this movie is Gina Davis has boobs.

Really excited to go back because I did, you know, it has Frankenstein and mummies and things like that. It just seemed like a very appropriate Halloween requests from Vincent. So thank you, Vincent. We’re going to do what we’re going to talk about this movie. We’re going to talk about Jeff Goldblum today.

Craig, how about you? Did you, have you ever seen this?

Craig: No, no. I’d never seen it before, but the box art is familiar. I feel like it pops up on my streaming services. A lot. And I don’t know why I never watched it because I do like these kind of goofy horror comedies and the guys in it. Jeff Goldbloom and ed Begley jr.

The main guys. I like them both. I think they’re both funny, uh, and talented and I’ve, I’ve seen both of them and other movies that I really enjoyed. And so I was kind of excited that you picked it. Because it, and your memory is really bad, cause it’s really only rated PG. I thought, well, I’ll watch this one with my partner.

Cause it’ll just be goofy and fun and we’ll, you know, we’ll just drink and laugh. And um, we did drink a lot, but we didn’t laugh.

Todd: I’m sure we’ll be laughing a lot more in this podcast I did during this movie,

Craig: man. I don’t know. It’s it’s something.

Todd: It is something. How about you, Simone? Uh, had you watched this before?

Simone: No, this was my first time as

Todd: well. Jeff Goldblum movie, you hadn’t seen before?

Simone: No, I know. And like such a young, fresh Jeff Goldbloom as well, so silly Craig.

Very similarly. I also drank a while watching this movie, my boyfriend, who’s not into it. Scary movies at all. I was like, come on, it’s going to be really goofy and like, silly let’s watch it, but I unfortunately watched it alone, but it was still, you know, Oh my God, the theme song alone. Transylvania.

So, yeah, this wild from start to

Craig: finish,

Todd: played on the radio. Like that is how heavily yeah. That’s how heavily it was. This movie was promoted. Like I, I remember walking into the theater, like humming that song and, uh, and not the Glen Miller song, uh, Pennsylvania, 65,000 upon which the, um, the title of the movie is based.

That’s where that weird. Title comes from and they try to tie it in by saying that the address of the castle, I guess, is Transylvania 65,000. It’s all a little weird as is much of this movie. In fact, the story behind the making of this movie is weird too. It’s crazy because I always I’m one of those guys who always watches the credits to the very end.

And I was pretty shocked toward the end of the movie to see that the main producer of the film was dead. The Dow chemical company. That’s bizarre. And I went onto Wikipedia and I looked this up and saw clearly that this whole movie was really just a way. It’s basically a tax write off. It was way for Dell chemical to get the money they had made in Yugoslavia, out of the country by spending it on a film production in there.

So. They initiated this and I guess they must have contacted a, some, some writers in Hollywood. The, the movie is written and directed by Rudy DeLuca and Rudy DeLuca has his feet pretty firmly in Mel Brooks comedy. He played in a couple of Mel Brooks, his movies before this, the silent movie, um, high anxiety.

He was in Robin hood men in tights and Spaceballs, a couple other movies after this as well, and wrote silent movie and high anxiety as well. So you would think that a movie coming from this plus a guy who was the writer of the Carol Burnett show for 72 episodes would have a pretty solid, hilarious script on his hands.

I’m sure that’s what the Dow chemical company was thinking at the time when they made the movie for $3 million to get the money out of Yugoslavia. But what we ended up with. I think it’s definitely second, third, maybe even forced to your Mel Brooks in my opinion.

Simone: Yeah.

Todd: Disappointing, disappointing all around.

I’m just going to throw my cards on the table.

Craig: I agree with you. It was disappointing because it was really easy to see what they were going for. They were going for a very like young Frankenstein feel, Laurel and Hardy kind of thing. And the. Effort was a parent. It just, for me, it fell flat. Like the jokes didn’t land.

I don’t know. And I read that there were several scenes in the movie where the actors were just told to improvise.

Todd: That was so obvious. And

Craig: also improvise, blocking, and it, it looks like it, even though it looks like they were just making it up as they went along and it looks like they maybe could have used a few more shots.

Um, there’s, there’s one scene in particular with Carol Kane and the guy that she plays opposite of John Byner, I think. Yeah. And they’re both very funny people on their own and they play the servants, this household, and they, the scene where he’s introduced first, he’s like the Butler, like the hunchback Butler and she’s his goofy hunchback wife.

And they’re both so funny. And I was, so I had read before I saw it, that they were going to be improvising this. And then I watched it and I just thought, gosh, these people are both so talented. It almost felt like a waste. Like I love Carol Kane. I think Carol Kane is whole Lariat and she was doing everything she could do.

I suppose it just felt like an elephant profit game, like a college improv game. And I don’t know, I just, wasn’t all that impressed.

Simone: One thing that I wrote down in my notes. Cause I did, I went into this totally blinded and not put in any research at all. Um, and I looked up some stuff afterwards, but I mean, for sure, right off the bat, I was like, this is Brooksie.

Okay. Did a little of that. And then when Carol Kane came on, what I put down was. Their relationship is like me and Kevin and quarantine, where she was like, let me help you with that. There’s a spot right there. There’s a spot right there. Yeah,

Craig: yeah,

Simone: yeah. I’m a teacher. And so over the summer when I wasn’t working and Kevin was working from home, I would be like constantly coming in the room.

Like, do you need anything? Can I get anything for you? Like after a while, like, please. Give me some space.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know how many times Alan said to me, uh, I’m working

Todd: work time. I realized we’re in the studio.

we all kind of had to do that. Yeah. And that couple actually I thought more or less, they were. A highlight of the movie. And when I say that I it’s a very low bar to be a highlight of the movie. So I’m not saying I was particularly wowed by their performance, but I think what I am saying is that their performances, I think they were better than most of the others because Carol Kane’s got her stick.

Right. I mean, she’s yeah. She’s full on, you know, herself. You might remember her from the princess bride. She’s a miracle Max’s wife.

Craig: She was the mom and licensed to drive. I loved that movie.

Todd: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Simone: Recently she was an unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.

Craig: Oh yeah. Yeah. She was the landlady funny.

Todd: And she does the same kind of thing.

Right. She has these kind of crazy. Oh, in Scrooged. She was the ghost of Christmas. Yeah. Present, uh, you know, where she’s constantly whacking them over the head she’s in jail versus the volcano. She has this thing that she does really, really well. And it was really welcome in this movie and it fit her character and it was great against her husband, John Boehner and John Boyne, or himself is like a master of, of doing impressions.

Dialects and things. Uh, he he’s really good at that. And he’s, he’s mostly done a lot of voice acting quite honestly. And I think he holds his own. But like you said, you said particularly when you talk about this particular scene kind of a window into how the whole movie felt for me and that is, they didn’t know what to do with the camera.

They had the camera sitting there in just a really long shot following these people around. So it’s kind of boring, like, like the cinematography is kind of flat and boring and then these people are going on and on and on for almost God. That’s gotta be what at least five minutes.

Craig: Maybe it was a long, maybe it was uncomfortably long.

Todd: Yeah. It’s an uncomfortably long scene where it just, you can tell it’s not tight. It kind of meanders and they’re painfully and obviously right in front of our faces, searching for things to do, and they’re finding things to do and they never break character, but one long take watching people improvise.

It just doesn’t come across as clever as for example, Most of your Mel Brooks movies

Craig: are, and it’s just, it’s a shtick that, you know, doesn’t really do much to advance plot or anything, which is fine. I mean, it’s a goofy movie, it’s a comedy with a simple plot, which we’ll talk about very soon, but, you know, I felt the same way about them as I felt about Michael Richards in this movie, Michael Richards, who everybody knows is Kramer from Seinfeld.

This is before that, uh, he’s pretty young in this movie, but he just does his Kramer stick through the whole. Movie, which to be fair, that kind of physical comedy is, is not easy and he’s really good at it, but it just seemed like that was the only purpose of his character was just to Bumble around and fall down a lot and be weird.

Todd: Yeah. He basically disappears after about two thirds of the movie and you don’t see them again. It’s all shtick for the sake of shtick. Right. Like you said, these scenes where we see these people doing these mad cap, things don’t really advance the plot. Like you said, doesn’t really give us any insight.

And doesn’t even necessarily even to seem to fit into the movie, just like, Oh wait, now let’s watch these guys be funny for a while. And then we’ll come back to the movie. Yeah. And there was so much of that in this movie that it, it just gets old after a while and it’s, it’s not as funny to watch it just isn’t.

Simone: Yeah, it drags on a lot is good. Huh? It’s good. Huh? Main line.

Craig: Yeah. Like he’s constantly trying to impress people. I don’t

Todd: know. Come on. Some of it’s really lame too. I mean, There’s one point where he comes out and stops. One of the characters, ed Begley, Jr’s character Gill with a banana peel, and he’s like, Hey, stay right there.

Just watch this, watch this. And he puts a banana peel on the ground. He walks and pretends to slip and fall. Well, does slip and fall on the bunny an appeal. And then he’s like, no, you do it now. You do it now. No, no, no, really you do it. And then he literally just chases him around, trying to get him. Just slip on a banana peel.

I mean, how dumb is this?

Craig: I did chuckle a little bit at the scene where he kept getting body parts stuck in the door. That was kind of,

Todd: that was

Craig: that it was maybe one part where I did chuckle a little bit, but we should get to what the premise of the movie is. It’s silly. It starts out with this, um, Video, it looks almost like found footage of these people, exploring what I guess is supposed to be the out side of a castle. And it’s really brief.

Like they literally just kind of walk up to a door and the guy on camera that was Michael McKeon. Wasn’t it. Um, I don’t think that he’s listed in the cast list, but I’m pretty sure it was Michael McKeon did a lot of the, um, Oh, I can’t think of the guy’s real name, but th the like, waiting for Guffman, a mighty wind best in show.

I’m pretty sure that was him. I’m not sure if he’s credited, but anyway, it doesn’t matter. He stands in front of this door and these arms burst through the door and like, Grab him and carry him away. And it’s supposed to be like a Frankenstein siding. And the people watching this video are Jeff Goldbloom, who plays a guy named Jack and ed Begley jr.

Who plays a guy named Gil. And it just occurred to me today that their names, these are Jack and Jill, like, that’s pretty funny, but, uh, they work for like this tabloid that is run by guilt dad and he tasks them with going to Transylvania too. Try to do a story on this Frankenstein deal. He wants a big headline and Jack, Jeff Goldbloom is very skeptical.

Doesn’t want to do it. But basically the guy says, if you don’t, you’re both fired. And Gil’s like, well, you can’t fire me. I’m your son. And he’s like, well, yeah, I can. And I’m going, I can’t believe we’re talking about this again. I didn’t want to have this conversation one more time. That story on labor exploitation and the implants one, your headline women forced to work in rape factory.

When that was a rope factory, that was a typo, a typo. Besides rape is a grabbers, right? It is a big parabola. You, I army to raise the journalistic level of this paper wrong. I hired you to raise the vocabulary level is paper. I want to keep the journalistic level very low. Why do you think I teamed up with him parents?

So they, they have to go and they do. And you know, as soon as they get their hi-jinks and SU um, I thought it was cute. You know, the second they get there, Jack Goldbloom gets his head turned by this woman named Elizabeth played by Theresa Ganzel, who I recognized. But couldn’t place for a second. So I looked her up and she was the ditzy wife of the rich guy in the toy.

Um, and she was really funny in that. And she’s cute in this movie too. Then he like pursues her throughout the movie and they start doing their investigations. Um, and it doesn’t take very long before weird stuff starts to happen. I guess, you know, they right away, there’s a goofy scene. Well, first of all, they meet the mayor.

Who’s played by Jeffrey Jones, Ferris, Bueller, fame, uh, and many of them, other things. And now sadly kind of notorious cause he got himself into some. Trouble, uh, with some bad stuff, but, uh, they meet him. He’s kind of funny. And then Gil asks the light mate or the concierge at the hotel that they stop at about Frankenstein and the whole town just laughs at them and gives them, you know, all this crap about.

Being stupid Americans who think Transylvania is full of monsters and whatnot, but then they ended up going to the castle and hi-jinks, and you know, that’s kind of it,

Todd: that’s it. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks for joining us. It was, I wish we could have talked about Jeff Goldblum more, but uh, what more is there to say about this movie? Well, they, they go up to the castle and so there’s a big castle in town and there’s a lot of this. Goofiness with the modern and the old, right. So of course this is Transylvania and they have a big castle there.

And as far as I know, Transylvania was where Dracula was supposed to be. Right. So it’s kind of funny that we don’t see anything related to, I mean, we see a vampire in here, but not Dracula. The idea is Frankenstein. It was Frankenstein from Transylvania too.

Craig: I don’t remember. I don’t Mary Shelley was British wasn’t she?

I don’t remember. I don’t know.

Todd: I mean, Frankenstein anyway. Anyway, we went to the castle and as you had said earlier, um, they have this bell hop guy about the grounds. Uh, who’s played by. Uh, Michael Richards and, uh, he’s just goofy. He answers the door with a little pop in. And does he,

Simone: that was wild.

Craig: It was kind of funny,

Todd: funny little

Craig: puppet.

Wasn’t it like a baby, like a baby with a mustache or something?

Todd: Well, it’s a complete non-sequitur and that made it really funny there at the beginning. It’s just, there’s no reason. Yeah. But then you realize that he is whole thing. His, this character’s thing throughout the movie is he’s trying to make things funny because this castle they’re trying to turn into a resort to capitalize on the popularity of Transylvania being notorious for having monsters.

Even though again, The mayor and everybody say there aren’t any monsters. And then there’s that movie thing where as soon as they walk inside, The mayor that they saw when they got off the bus, just, you know, an hour or so later happens to also be up there at the castle, greeting them. And it turns out he’s the owner of that resort as well, trying to make it a Disney world.

Right. Of a,

Simone: yeah, he said he’s like receiving it like Disneyland. And I think he calls the caretaker Michael’s character as like the token brute. So I don’t know if. Like a brute is supposed to mean like a, a more simple person or what, but yeah, that’s, that’s kind of the, the thing he was going for

Craig: funny, they it’s like, everything is gimmicky.

Like they serve their drinks out of beakers and, um, Like, it’s all supposed to be like mad scientist kind of thing. I, on paper, it sounds really fun and cute. It just, that’s kind of it like, it’s supposed to be like this theme park, amusement park or whatever, but really kind of the goofy serving of the food is, is kind of the only female thing.

Aside from that it’s in a castle. Um, I don’t know. Maybe it’s in the early days, maybe they’re still gonna be ramping it up,

Todd: but doing market research, I guess. Yeah, cause it’s right here, the tiny little table in front of them, you know, it’s not, it’s the very beginnings of this poor little place trying to do something, I guess, if you’re going to be generous about it.

So they’re there and I guess these guys get rooms there. Michael Richards comes in and does more stick with them at the table, which totally feels like improv and probably was Gil goes down to check out the chapel. Which is where that, that video was originally filmed, where the monster to attack those guys in the woods.

And he just walks in there, wanders around an empty room, a chandelier, almost swings into him. And then he bumps into a mysterious stranger who pops in through the door. And he’s like, what are you doing here?

Craig: I’m inspector check. But the question is whether you are doing here,

Todd: I

Craig: heard they were having a novena, no vena.

Isn’t this, our lady of perpetual sorrow. No, I must be in the wrong church. Right, right, right. So like, who is, who is the mysterious inspector and why does the mysterious inspector want to keep them away from the church? And, um, then as he’s walking away, he walks by this old gypsy woman who kind of like gives them a sign or something.

And so he goes in and talks to her and she says, There is a monster and he’s like Frankenstein and she’s like, no, Oh, werewolf. And his name is Lawrence Melbourne that she’s like, he’s my son. And you must destroy him. Uh,

Todd: so they,

Craig: so they like go. To this, I guess, to the address that the gypsy gave him, the both of them, Jackie and Gill go.

And they’re just like standing right outside behind this tiny little

yeah. In their like suits

Simone: business suits just casually.

Craig: And this guy, this old guy comes out and like, he looks up at the moon, which Gil thinks is a sign that he must be aware of. Well, and they start following him and he starts shedding his clothes and they lose them for a second. And then they end up in this kind of clearing. They hear these like grunting and growling noises and they look over and they see, see these bushes shaking.

So they think that he must be transforming in these bushes. Um, so they go and they move the bushes aside and it’s not a werewolf. It’s just that old guy banging some like. Wench

director of the movie. I think he had set it up so that the shot, when they opened the bushes would just be his bare ass. Uh, yeah, you’re looking right up at them, but I guess to keep the rating low, they ended up cutting that part, which I wish they wouldn’t have. Cause that would have been funny, you know, werewolf full moon.

Get it.

Oh man. All right, I’m done. Go ahead.

Todd: I mean, so then we’re done with that little shtick and then, uh, they go back and go back to sleep in their respective rooms in the castle. Gil wakes up in the middle of the night and looks over and thinks he sees a woman standing in the window. Of his bedroom, but when he rubs his eyes and looks back, she’s not there.

Uh, and then he goes back to sleep and we see the woman is back there. She’s holding a Cape over her face. And, uh, he wakes up, he looks back over again and, and, and she’s not there. And then eventually he wakes up and she’s right there next to him, pretty much breathing down his neck and he screams and he jumps up.

And then she’s gone and he pulls in Jack and it’s like, Hey, there’s a, there was a woman, a woman in here. I saw her she’s, you know, like a vampire or something like that. Uh, and he says, no, I don’t know who you’re talking about. It’s Gina Davis, Gina Davis. His character in this movie is like a female vampire.

Character. And she’s got a nice dress on once again. The only thing I ever remembered from this movie as a nine year old boy, eight year old boy. Um, nice rack.

Craig: Yeah, it’s very Elvira or Vampira. Um, and she’s very young and stunningly beautiful. Like everybody in this movie is like eight feet tall, including her.

And, you know, this dress is cut down, I think all the way, like to her Naval. And she looks really good. I think, uh, she and Jeff Goldblum on three movies together and were lovers for a while. Right. Um, but I think this was the first time they had worked together. And I think that Goldbloom recommended her.

I’m not sure how they knew each other at that point, but this start, you know, they did this and they did the fly that had earth. Girls are easy. I don’t think they have a single scene together in this movie, which is unfortunate because they have really good chemistry. But, uh, anyway, she looks great and it’s, it’s cool to see her as it is cool to see Goldbloom and ed Begley jr.

Earlier in their careers when they were still. Young, not that any of them look bad today, they all look great today. But, uh, uh, it’s just kind of a little glimpse into the past.

Simone: Yeah. Yeah. When they were like kinda young, I’m just figuring it out as, as these new actors stepping on the screen and man, and to like what I thought was interesting.

And I know, um, the, as I called her hot mom, Elizabeth, um, her character, although is. It’s small plays an important part by the end of it. There’s that other subplot where Jeff Goldbloom or Jay track goes on, you know, he’s trying to like get with Elizabeth. As you mentioned earlier, Craig, like two minutes in, just fresh off the bus, flirting, his little heart out and they go end up going on this date and try and start a relationship.

It’s. That, that part was interesting.

Craig: Yeah. It’s it’s cause he’s in my notes. I have he’s gold blooming on Elizabeth. Like he’s totally laying on the Goldbloom charm with her. Um, but at this point, you know, she’s playing it very coy and she’s got this daughter and as soon as they, they like, they go on like a little, I don’t know if it’s a picnic, but they just go and sit kind of in this clearing in the woods during the daytime and they immediately ignore.

The daughter who just makes a beeline to the floor. Yeah. And at some point Gil comes in is like, I don’t know if he knew the daughter was gone or he knew Frankenstein was around or something, but they realize that the daughter has gone and gold. Bloom’s like what happened? And I said out loud to the TV, uh, you weren’t paying any attention to her as you ran into the woods, what did you think was going to happen?

But she does run into what appears to be Frankenstein in the woods. And this, I liked this scene for the literary illusion because, and I don’t even know if it is, it’s been, I’ve only read Frankenstein once in high school. So it’s been so long, but in the classic film version, there’s a great scene with.

The monster and a little girl who’s blind. And so isn’t scared of him and they have this really sweet moment. And I’ve talked about this before on the show, but that they’re like throwing flowers and flower pedals into the river. And when they’re they, when they run out of flowers to throw in the river, the monster, I don’t think maliciously, I think just playfully picks up the little girl and throws her in the river.

She dies.

Todd: Yeah. It’s so hilarious, Greg.

Craig: So there’s that, there’s a similar scene in monster squad with Phoebe and the monster. And there’s. This one too. And so, uh, I liked it. It was cute. I thought it was a nice little throwback to that original movie, but we don’t know what’s going on. We just see them encounter one another and then that’s kind of it before that they had also gone to visit a sanatorium and this scene was so stupid, so stupid that it was so close to funny.

I mean, when they’re. Approaching the sanatorium. They’re like walking behind this waist level wall. And anytime anybody looks in their direction, they just like pop down and below the wall. Again, these guys are each like six, three, and so are not inconspicuously. All and so it just looks so silly for them to keep popping up and down, but hind this tiny wall.

And then they, they look in and yeah, and see, I don’t know, they think something weird is going on or whatever, and it’s all behind this big wall and the guards won’t let them in, but there’s a great shtick where. Goldbloom keeps telling Gil to jump over the wall. And then as soon as he does, he alerts the guards, like he tells him to start climbing in and he does, and then Goldbloom just standing there by himself.

On the outside of the fence is like, Uh, patient escaping patients escaping. So they run over and grab him. Cause they think that he’s trying to get out, not in, and then he looks around in there for a little while and then when he’s trying to get out, um, Goldbloom shouts. So when he’s trying to get it and somebody’s trying to get in, so they grab him and throw him back over the outside.

So dumb. But I have to admit, I at least smiled. Cause it was so stupid.

Todd: Yeah. Some of that, Jeff Goldbloom smarts going on there, you know, the real intent out of the box. Jeff Goldblum thinking bright Simone.

Simone: Oh yeah.

Todd: Oh yeah. And he’s at the sanatorium. He encounters a. Doctor there. And this doctor has supposedly through some weird research that he did earlier.

Some he goes to the library and then like, it’s like what? There’s a scene. Yeah. Earlier where Goldblum’s character asks, um, ed Begley, Jr’s character, Jack asks, what did you find? And he’s like, Oh, I didn’t really find much of it. Anything, except apparently this there’s this doctor working at the Sanitarium whose license has been revoked.

And so, Oh, that’s mysterious. So that’s kind of their whole reason for being there. He gets in there and he peaks in the window at the same time. The mayor. And that inspector are visiting the doctor and they’re asking them for the records and the doctor’s pulling out records. And the doctors, it seems like a lot of his patients are actually being recorded as dead.

And they’re like, that’s unusual then all of this was just kind of really tenuous stuff. Um, how all this kind of fit together and the motivations of these characters to be investigating each other or whatever. Am I on the right page here? I don’t know.

Simone: Well, this and this they’re supposed to be like a total play off of dr.

Jacqueline, mr. Hyde, right? Like just the, like how he would be very calm and then he would get all anxious and crazy and like want to go after you. And

Craig: yeah, it’s dependent on space, which I thought was. Funny, like the second he steps into his lab, he turns into crazy mad doctor and he signals that by intentionally messing up his hair to make him look like a crazy man.

Todd: And that’s looking at back what he gets.

Craig: Yeah. The second he steps out, he slips it back and he’s normal again. I don’t know. I mean, as far as stick goes, it’s pretty funny. And, and, uh, the actor does do a good job of. Uh, uh, a clear distinction between the two characters. So that was kind of funny going back to when the girl is lost in the forest, they go in there and look for her.

And I don’t remember if they see them or not. This is where my notes, my handwriting is getting a little bit. Bad cause I had been drinking. So it’s a little bit buzzy. There’s also a moment where Gil like steps into a marshy swampy area and an arm reaches up and grabs his balls and then he runs away.

And so like there’s a swamp creature and then Goldbloom gets attacked by a werewolf. But I guess he gets away as it turns out, like. There are all these monsters and they’re all somehow connected to this doctor. And eventually we all, we see them all converge there. Um, and it’s unclear what’s going on. I don’t know

Simone: if it would work. And, um, I would just like to also take this moment to give my beautiful lush chef’s Italian kiss to one of the most, best cinematic screams of all time when Jeff called blue kids jacked in the forest, and it’s just.

You knew Jeff Goldblum.

Craig: Oh

Todd: man, back at the lab, right where the lab is, is underneath the castle. It’s like in the dried out moat bank, underneath the bridge of the castle. And, uh, that is where, and, and, and everybody knows about it, I guess, except for the mayor. And. And the inspector and the people who are visiting, because even that,

Craig: yeah, the hunchback couple

Todd: are there and they’re apparently the doctor’s minions, I guess, I guess

Craig: like, like is Igor.

Right. Um, and Gina Davis has chained up in there, which I still am. Not sure I understand why she was chained up in there.

Todd: Oh, I don’t even understand. Why she was there at all in retrospect.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t really, either as it turns out and I may be skipping things, but this is all I can remember as it turns out like through investigation, they, the guys, the reporters figure out that actually the bad guys are the mayor and the inspector.

And what they’re doing is they’re taking all of these undesirables and locking them up. In this sanitorium. And even though it appears, yeah, like the dr. Frankenstein guy, whatever his name is like, Scott, you know, all of these creatures and it appears that maybe he’s responsible for making them that way.

Like, he’s got a mummy in there as it turns out. These are all these undesirables that the. Uh, mayor has tried to get rid of by putting them in the stands  and the doctor is actually trying to, to help them, but the towns, people don’t know that. And so when in Frankenstein there they’re all searching what they’re supposed to be searching for this missing girl, but there’s actually, there’s also a wine festival going on.

And so everybody’s kind of distracted by that. And the girl’s mom is ticked off and, you know, marches into the wine festival to demand, to know why they aren’t looking for a daughter. But then. We see Frankenstein carrying the daughter towards town and she’s perfectly fine. And in fact, she’s really tired.

So he just tell her to go to sleep, which she does. But, uh, when he’s walking, going into town, she’s dangling there in his arms asleep. And so they all think that she’s dead and he approaches, um, and he lays her down. And the mom approaches and the girl wakes up. And so, you know, everybody knows the girls fine, but they still, because this guy is monstrous, they attack him and grab him and tie him up on like a Pyre.

And they’re going to burn him until the reporters. And the doctor and all of the freaks show up to clear everything up. And there’s a whole big explanation scene of what’s going on so silly, but very eighties, um,

Todd: where, where suddenly the villain has revealed the Scooby doo moment.

Craig: They have a hard time convincing the townspeople and there is it’s soak.

I hesitate to say funny, cause that may be kind of a stretch, but a silly moment where Jeff Goldbloom is trying to convince the crowd, the angry mob, um, not to burn. This guy who, as it turns out was just a guy who was like in a terrible accident or something, and was totally dismembered and disfigured.

And the doctors put him back together. But, uh, he’s trying to rile up the crowd. Meanwhile, gills in the crowd, like running around, popping up in different parts of the crowd. Yeah. Listen to him like snatching off women’s wigs and putting them on. Yeah. What he said, listen, listen, like. So dumb,

Todd: it’s dumb and funny shtick that honestly, if you had seen it in a Mel Brooks movie, it would have been executed better here.

It just looked sloppy. Right? It was like, I don’t know if this is the way it was shot or the reactions of everybody else, but it just. Was didn’t seem as sophisticated as this unsophisticated humor can be. This man

Craig: is  after a car accident, his body was mangled and he was partially paralyzed, but some people here in your town couldn’t stand the sight of him.

So they got them transferred from intensive care to your phony rest home where I performed reconstructive surgery. Yes. Why or am I not send bolts? Oh, could I, do they take the money? Not the government gives them. Fix them up, put it in his

Todd: pocket and the mummy they, that we’ve seen a little bit on and off in this turns out to be a woman who was in an accident needed plastic surgery.

Craig: I don’t think she was even in an accident. I think she, I think she was just really ugly. Right. She was just really ugly and they didn’t want to look at her. So they put her away. And she was, she was wrapped in all of these bandages. He’s like I had to keep her wrapped up so that she could heal, but now she’s ready and he unwraps her and she’s this buxom like Amazon and she like looks at her boobs.

It’s like, I’m never challenged on the sign curse.

Todd: Okay. Oh, like what 12 year old wrote this film?

Simone: Yeah. And that werewolf was just born with a genetic disorder or something and they were, they were working on a cure and he revealed his chest is all barren because I can go to the beach. Now. They all have these revelations of reveal. So funny. Yeah.

Todd: And they send the doctor.

I have basically been siphoning off the money. That’s supposed to go for the treatment of these people, uh, you know, putting it in their own pockets. So it’s been up to the doctor to miss, you know, to secretly, I guess now, in retrospect that we’re talking it all out, he was sort of faking their deaths for the mayor and inspector’s purpose, but taking them back to his lab, chaining them up.

And putting them in cages as spirited worked on them, it’s all kind of messed up when you think about it.

Craig: Yeah. Well, but then, you know, it’s the classic eighties in where? Oh, it was all just a big misunderstanding and the hunchback couple it’s revealed that they have a son who’s also a hunchback, but eventually don’t, they just all just kind of stand up straight,

Todd: stand up straight song.

Okay.

Craig: And there’s a little moment where Gill and the werewolf lady, Gina Davis are sitting in a, uh, like a carriage and they go to start to kiss it. Gil’s like first take these out. And he reaches in her mouth and pulls out her fangs. And they’re just like fake Halloween fangs. And he’s like, you don’t have to pretend anymore.

And she’s like, Oh, but I want to, because it makes me sexy or something. And he’s like, you’re sexy on your own without. And she’s like, no, I’m hideous

Todd: far from it.

Craig: And then she she’s like, look at my nose and he does. And he’s like, ah, but then break it. The Frankenstein guy, like taps him on the shoulders, like give her a nose job. What

Todd: I gave her a nose job.

Craig: I don’t know I was drunk.

Todd: I don’t anyway, all is fine and good. And that’s the end of the movie

Craig: party

Todd: literally have a dance party.

Craig: Where are we? We get, you know, all these, uh, uh, tabloid style photos of all of these different monsters, having a great time dancing, but. As it turns out, you know, it works out for everybody because Jack and Gill get their story. In fact, they get a whole bunch of stories. They get a werewolf, they get a mummy, they get Frankenstein, they get a swamp.

Sure. And so, you know, we see all of these great headlines. I don’t remember what any of them are. I didn’t write them down, but they’re pretty funny. Yeah.

Simone: If they were anyone, any similar to the ones that we saw in the beginning, like are aliens using your body for sex while you sleep or, and liked it?

Craig: I feel like, I think one of them was vampire sucks. Transylvania dry.

Todd: I don’t care,

Craig: but it was, I don’t know, it was kind of funny. And then that’s just it, you know, like it, I feel like it ends there and it’s goofy and silly and it, it feels like it was trying to go for a monster mash type vibe. Maybe, you know, I think maybe if I were a kid, this might have been funny, like a young kid and maybe if I had seen it when I was a kid.

There would be that nostalgia. Um, but I didn’t, I’m seeing it as a 40 something and, uh, yeah, it just didn’t, it just didn’t read. In fact, as we were watching it, I said to my partner, several times we can turn this off. Like I can finish it myself. And he was like, no, it’s fine. Just let’s just walk. Um, so we did finish it, but, uh, It was kinda, it was kind of a struggle to get through.

Todd: Nobody liked this movie when it came out, nobody, it was, it was very critically panned. It’s got an 18% on rotten tomatoes. Leonard Maltin did a, the shortest and one of his most notorious, notorious reviews he’s ever done. Where on entertainment tonight, he simply played the Pennsylvania 65,000 and saying along with it, and then after the Pennsylvania 65,000 said, Sucked,

maybe he said stunk. I think it’s maybe what he said on entertainment tonight, but yeah, that was it. A one word review. So, uh,

Craig: that he was very proud of moving forward. It’s like one of his favorite reviews that he’d ever given, but I have to agree with them and. I have to wonder this, this didn’t seem like a labor of love for anybody.

It felt like they, the, the, the makers of the movie, the producers, they just had to spend this money, or they were going to lose it. And so it just feels like they threw something together and it just doesn’t. There’s there’s I don’t feel any passion behind it. I don’t feel. It just seems like they just kind of went through the movie, the motions to make a movie, like, let’s just wait, we got to spend the money.

Let’s just make a movie. And so they did. And that’s how it turned out, I guess.

Todd: Well, they made a little over 7 million off of a $3 million budget and I guess they got their money out of the Yugoslavia. So it must have worked out for the Dow chemical company, but you don’t see them turning into major film producers after this.

How about you, Simone? What did you think. What are your final thoughts?

Simone: It was very silly and like, I just think it just, it perfectly shows a very. Funny silly 1985 or comedy love story. Why?

I think if anything that we can take out of this, especially is that, um, October is also known as 31 days of Goldbloom because Jekyll Bloom’s birthday is on the 22nd of this month.

Um, I think that watching this film this month during his birthday, Memphis, that was, was very appropriate.

Craig: Yeah. And it is it’s for the Halloween season, you know, I, I completely understood why you picked it, you know, to have all of these different monsters, familiar monsters, like the universal monsters in one movie.

On paper. It sounds great. And it makes perfect sense why you would choose it for October. Um, I just, I honestly wish it had been better. I wanted to like it. I wanted it to be good. Uh, it, but it wasn’t

Todd: sadly. Well, thank you anyway, Vincent, for giving us a good Halloween movie to review for giving Simone another excuse to come on our show and talk about Jeff gold.

Simone: What a treat. Thank you so much.

Todd: And thank you Simone for coming on our show again and chatting about Jeff Goldbloom and the movie we really enjoyed.

Craig: Yeah, thanks.

Todd: And for the rest of you, you can find us online, two guys in a chainsaw, just search for us. And if you liked this episode, please share it with a friend, give us some requests. So what any movies you’d like us to do during this Halloween season? And we’ve got other holidays coming up, but we’d love to hear those and honor those.

Thank you again, Vincent for this one as well this week until next time I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig with

Todd: with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Seems like an appropriate title to kick off October – a haunted house, devil-worshipping spirit, witches, seances, ghost hunters, surly detectives, and hammy acting.

If you learn nothing else about Witchtrap, you must know this: It is NOT a sequel to Witchboard! It just has the same writer, director, actors, poster art, and villain character design. It’s super-dumb, but its saving grace is that it also has: Linnea Quigley! Enjoy the episode, you chuckleheads.

Witchtrap (1989)

Episode 231, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: After a couple of weeks of fairly heavy movies that were a, a little bit deep and a little depressing and serious, we decided to get to something totally goofy and fun. Something we knew. I would be totally goofy and fun. So this week, what we are doing is 1989’s Witchtrap, which is not to be confused with which board it is definitely not a sequel to Witchboard, which, uh, it’s tells you in the very, very beginning before the title credits and as plastered all over the VHS box art, even though.

Witchtrap and Witchboard are written and directed by the same guy, Kevin  also happens to star a bad evil spirit with a big beard and hair that terrorizes people, and doesn’t really pop into play until the very end of the movie. Oh played also by the same guy, actually, most of the people in this movie were also in which board.

Yeah, I guess we just had to make okay. Clear in case you didn’t know, but the similarities between the two movies are huge and we love Kevin S Tenny. We’ve done a couple of his other movies. We really did enjoy a which board as I recall. And, uh, we’re big fans of night of the demons. At least nine of the demons is just one of the most iconic horror movies of the late eighties in its corniness, cheesiness, and just overall fun.

Yeah. And effects. So, uh, yeah, this, this movie came out, I believe a year before night of the demons and two years after which board and then sequel to Witchboard came out later, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, these are the movies. Kevin Tenney is most famous for, even though he was making stuff up into two thousands and apparently had to step in for a character in this movie as well and put on what has to be one of the most excellent acting debuts of all.

Yeah. Oh my God. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen this movie before actually. Although the box art. Always attracted me in the video store. Certainly hadn’t seen it. And I think I actually had confused it with which board, because actually the box art, if you’re trying to make your movie not be confused with another movie, don’t make the box art look almost exactly the same.

Right. And then don’t put on the box art for your other movie this time. It’s not a game. Well, I don’t know. I mean, taken on its own, Witchtrap apparently was never a game in the first place. But if you compare it to Witchboard which is referring to a Ouija board, then I guess he’s trying to say this time, it’s not a game because it’s not a sequel to which board.

So anyway, uh, boy, this was quite a fun movie to watch and I’m looking forward to chatting about it, but I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’d watched it. How about you?

Craig: It’s funny that you say you’re pretty sure you hadn’t seen it before. Cause I feel the same way. I’m not really sure. I didn’t think I had, and then watching it, I don’t know.

I may have. Uh, but frankly, uh, it’s not particularly memorable. So if I had seen it before, I’m not really surprised that I don’t remember much, if anything about it. I don’t know. No. The only thing that I really knew about it was that it was made by the same. Folks as a, the people who made Witchboard, which again, was a positive in my book because I am a fan of Witchboard, but like you said, they go out of their way to let us know.

It is certainly not a sequel. And it’s not though, like you said, they are strikingly similar in many ways, but. I think that which board while certainly no masterpiece is far superior this movie, you know, gosh, I’m not really sure what to say about it. The thing that, the thing that struck me most, well, there are a lot of, thanks.

I think it has some of the worst, cringiest dialogue I’ve ever seen in a movie. Oh

Todd: God.

Craig: I mean, obviously I know who wrote it, but in my head I kept thinking who wrote this? These lines are so stupid and nobody would ever say these things. Secondly, the active is pretty darn bad across the board.

Todd: Everybody. There’s not a good actor in this whole movie.

Craig: Now it’s pretty terrible, which is compounded by the fact that somehow they screwed up the audio. They recorded the audio live as they filmed, but somehow it got screwed up. So they had to go back and re dub all the dialogue, which is painfully obvious and really only highlights how bad the acting is.

Anyway. So

Todd: yeah. Yeah, good start. I have to say that too. The acting is wooden. I mean, this is the best example of what I would call the most wooden acting you’ve ever seen. Like the face has barely changed expression, and it seems like the actors are not really aware of the content of their lines as the lines are coming out of their mouth.

I was trying to chalk that up to maybe bad ADR work. Like maybe in the moment, you know, their delivery was so much better, but then when they got behind a microphone in a room, It became more wooden, but I don’t think so. I just, I just don’t think anybody was able to carry it. And also I didn’t at first notice the dialogue was not quite matching up with their lips because for having to do the whole movie and for being here low budget production, as it is, it’s probably better than I would ever do.

You know, trying to match dialogue to lifts, but the problem is, is that uncanny Valley area

Craig: just

Todd: enough off that it’s. Almost distracting through the entire movie, as opposed to the Italian movies that we watch, where they’re kind of so far off that you get used to it and you don’t even care. Uh, yeah. But yeah, it, it that’s the least of this film’s problems.

I thought that the dialogue. There were moments in which I thought, you know, this dialogue probably sounded extremely clever on paper because it is filled to the brim with water supposed to be jokes, but the jokes are corny as hell. And maybe if they were delivered in a more natural way, at least half of them would have come off.

But because the acting behind it is just so wooded, none of it comes off. And some of it’s really. Cringy, like they’re racist, racist jokes in there and weird stuff that people are saying to each other. Like, people don’t talk like this.

Craig: No. Right. And that’s the thing, like, I felt like they were supposed to be jokes too, but they felt so flat.

Like you say, maybe if they had been delivered more naturally, I almost feel like they needed to ham it up a little bit more. Like, I almost felt like they were taking themselves very seriously. Delivering these silly, silly lines. And this has happened several times with movies that we’ve watched. I found myself thinking, was this supposed to be a horror comedy?

Because they were especially with the main character, Tony, who is this detective, like pretty much everything he says is a Quip, but. He delivers it with a straight face and it just falls completely, totally flat. Like I wanted to laugh. Add it or with it, but in the context, it’s really not funny. Like I agree.

I really didn’t laugh out loud at all. I recognized that the things that they were saying were ridiculous, but it seems so written like a. At one point, Tony calls people a bunch of chuckleheads and, uh, he refers to another guy as a walking hard-on with feet. Like nobody says that nobody says any of these things,

Todd: especially some of the dialogue between the cops, which I think is supposed to sound like hard-edged ribbing.

But also the, um, well, I mean, what the one cop, his name is Tony Vincente and he’s got a partner named Levi who is African American. And that needs to be said because it’s pointed out multiple times in the movie when people make. Black jokes that are really stretching the boundaries of taste, even in the eighties, I think.

And then their boss is Murphy and this is like a private detective from, and Tony, apparently we hear later on in the film was the, the best of the best apparently out of the police Academy was a great detective on the LA force, but had some trouble with a particular case. And now he’s been hired by this guy instead, and he’s out of the force.

So.

Craig: Yeah. Supposedly like, he’s this great detective, but he’s such a wise guy that they,

Todd: right. Yeah. This guy you could have kept him on the forest. You just would’ve wanted him like, you know, cleaning the bathrooms and stuff.

Craig: Well, he’s just, he’s deliberately difficult. Like he’s just crusty to everybody. Oh, like he doesn’t like anybody.

He thinks everybody’s stupid. He’s just got like a huge chip on his shoulder. And he’s supposed to be the hero of the movie, which he is, I guess, but he’s not likable, which is unfortunate because he’s played by a guy named James Quinn, who I really don’t know from anything else except Witchboard. And he was my favorite character in Witchboard

Todd: he was great.

Craig: Yeah, he was the funny chummy friend of the main guy who. Got killed. And in that movie, when he got killed, I was bummed cause he was my favorite character and he got killed off really early and he was just really likable and endearing in that movie. And then here, it’s just totally different. I get it.

He’s playing two different characters, so I get it. Um, but uh, I don’t know.

Todd: He might be a little out of his league with this one. I’m afraid.

Craig: Well, I just think it’s bad. I just think it’s badly written and like, what are you going to do?

Todd: What are you going to do with this?

Craig: I suppose that we should mention the premise, right?

Todd: Yeah. Why not?

Craig: The premise of the movie is that there’s this old house and that’s where it opens up. And, um, The style of shooting in the opening scene is so similar to Witchboard with these like ghosty POV shots and weird like growling and noises kind of behind the shots. And there’s this goofy looking guy in this who’s just immediately scared and we don’t know what he’s scared of.

And, but apparently he’s so scared that he either jumps or is supernaturally. Pushed out of a second story, window falls out, then proceeds to bleed. A pool of blood

within like

Todd: three

Craig: seconds, three seconds. So much blood comes gushing out of this guy. It was like he was a water balloon that popped it.

Todd: That’s true. He could have been swimming in it if he wasn’t dead right

during all of the POV shots in this house, as we’re zooming around, we get a lot of this creepy imagery inside the house. Everything looks semi say tannic and old and weird, and there’s a. Picture frame on the wall that inside of it over the fireplace is this guy who looks exactly like, what was his name from Witchboard?

A fader. Yeah. I mean, it’s like they use the same makeup and

Craig: the same.

Todd: Yeah. Again, if you’re trying not to make your movie sequel, to Witchboard, why in the world are you making so many similarities?

Craig: And honestly, I know you’ve already said it, but I just want to reiterate, like, if you. Are interested if you’ve seen either of these movies really like just go online and look up the box art.

They are virtually identical, the box art for these two movies. Um, the only difference, really the only notable difference is that on the Witchtrap box art, there’s a little tiny like Polaroid of Linnea Quigley, who is. And this and thank goodness. Cause she was the pretty much the only part of it that I did.

Todd: Right. Well, once that happens, a guy named Felix gets a phone call and he’s basically like, Oh, you’re calling us in. Okay. And he calls out to Agnes, which is his wife. Agnes and Felix were both also in Witchboard, and we get our first boob shots of the movie. It’s actually pretty impressive. I wasn’t boobs, you know, four minutes into the film, but Agnes for no really good reason is just laying in the tub when they get the call.

And it turns out that Felix and Agnes must run, go to Ghostbusters outfit more or less. She’s. Claims she’s psychic and Felix claims he’s a psychic and then they have a couple other people along with them, uh, who are now. He, she kind of has to recruit the other woman. Uh, she has this conversation with a red head named Whitney who’s out jogging, and it’s such an awkward scene where Whitney’s out jogging in the park.

Suddenly Agnes comes out almost like she was behind a tree or something, and just starts walking towards Whitney and running alongside her Whitney. You have a gift. Do you mean a curse? I mean a gift. And if you believe God gave it to you, you must believe he wants you to use it. Ooh, that’s a cheap shot. I miss, especially coming from you.

Why? Because I’m an atheist. It scares me. You understand? I can’t control it, but I can. I hope so for everyone’s sake.

Craig: And then she runs away and then in the very next scene, she’s there like. I guess she changed her mind. I, I have no idea.

Todd: It made no sense anyway, whatever it didn’t take a whole lot of convincing for Agnes to bring Whitney into this team, which apparently Whitney was a key element of this team as it turns out because her husband is a medium who can channel.

What did he say?

Craig: He’s a mental medium and she’s a physical medium. I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.

Todd: It’s like he can channel the speech or whatever of the ghost, and then the physical medium can actually, the ghost can work through the physical medium to do physical stuff in the world or whatever.

And then Agnes is just along for the ride, I guess, with their videographer, the videographer Linnea Quigley. So super happy to see her in this movie. She wasn’t in it nearly long enough, nor was she given enough time?

Craig: No, and it’s so sad because she is the old, like, she’s the only one with any kind of charisma.

Yes. First, you know, when she appears and this, you know, is par for the course for her career, but the, the first. Thing that you see of her is just the camera. Does this leering shot from her feet all the way up her backside. So like, that’s like, hello, here’s our sexy one. And she is, she looks great in this movie, but she’s really just there to kind of be the sex pot, which would be fine if she were given more to do, but she’s not, she literally, probably, we only adds like three lines, uh, in the middle, which is unfortunate.

So yeah. So there there’s that. I don’t want to get ahead of myself. So there there’s that group. And then the guy Devin Lauder, who has played, as you said by the director, and he should stick to directing for sure. He owns this house. He inherited it from, uh, an uncle or something. And I guess there was a clause in the will that he couldn’t sell it and he couldn’t tear it down.

That’s a weird clause, but I, and he says, so his only other option would be to allow the County to absorb it or whatever, which apparently they want to do because it’s low located right next to this cemetery. And they want, you know, they would want to expand the cemetery or something. I don’t know. He gives it’s a whole big, long spiel.

Right? But he says that, um, the reason that he, he tried to rent it out in the past, but nobody’s ever stayed for more than a couple of days. Cause it’s haunted by his uncle and he knows cause he’s been there and he’s seen it and he’s experienced it, but he saw some news. These other bed and breakfasts were claiming to be haunted and they were getting a lot of.

Publicity and business. So he decided that he is going to, he’s already renovated it into a bed and breakfast. He wants to say that it’s haunted to bring people in, but. He doesn’t want it to really be haunted because he sent in some guy. And this is the guy that we saw get killed. The amazing Asimov.

Todd: Like, no, I don’t know

Craig: why the amazing as a mom.

Todd: For publicity,

Craig: publicity, I guess. I don’t know, um, that he sent them and he died. So now he’s brought this team in to exercise the house. The stipulation is they have to take this group of cops with them, security for liability reasons or whatever. Right. And that’s it. So even though. The cops don’t want to go.

And the people don’t want the cops to go it’s all or nothing. And so they all ended up going and then we spend the rest of the movie in the house

Todd: and Tony really doesn’t want to go because there’s a, there’s a scene between Murphy and Tony. That goes on way too long. And Murphy is like,

Craig: And you’ve got to play some of this dialogue.

It’s so terrible. Like the case.

Todd: No,

Craig: this is not the case. This is a joke. Look,

Todd: you want us to go up there and

Craig: babysit this great age group of chuckleheads while they

Todd: sit around in a circle, hold hands and talk to the ticket people. What makes you so sure. The chocolate heads, maybe this house really is no.

Well, yeah. And maybe your parents aren’t really first cousins either. Berkeley. I wouldn’t lay eyes on it. Cause see. If you’re not a direct product of inbreeding, then there really is a God. And he’s got a personal grudge against you. It’s supposed to be. And again, you’ve see this in movies, like they’re movies that do this well, lethal weapon, you know, does this well where you’ve got these two cops who kind of are supposed to hate each other, but deep down inside, they have an affection for each other, but they still can’t stand each other’s guts.

So they spend the whole time ribbing each other and write on each other’s last nerve. It does not come across at all in this movie. It’s just a series of really lame one on one liners. These people spit at each other and Murphy pretends to be upset by it. But none of this is convincing. In fact, you kind of wonder why Tony doesn’t.

It has such a problem going into this house. He, he, he thinks it’s a joke. So I don’t know why not just stay there at night and collect the paycheck. You know, it’s a little silly, the whole idea that there is this tension between them. It’s just to add something to the movie, but you’re a beard, which is flat as my ex wife’s chest.

Craig: No, it’s awful. Oh

Todd: man. So anyway, so there’s that that’s been established, they all show up at the house. It seems like Levi. Which I’ve got to point out pretty much every scene with Levi in it at some point or another ends up with some wise cracks towards him that are racial. I love it. When Murphy talks like a detective novel.

Yes. Sam spade lives never say spade to a brother. Sorry. All the ghost talk was hammy spooked. Very funny. And some of these are terrible and I mean, he’ll spit it back like a. I’m going

Craig: to find that overgrown abortion and give him a 38 caliber enema. You’re

Todd: going to do what I say. I’m going to kick you a black ass down those stairs.

Try it. And I’ll tap dance across your face. Like Bojangles Robinson, even. That’s just all of it’s just cringy. And it happens several times in this one,

Craig: even the introduction of the character. And, you know, I, I, I don’t want to be overly critical because I understand that it was a different time and we’re much more sensitive about race and the portrayal of, you know, different races and cultures and whatnot, but just this guy’s introduction, like he comes in strutting down the hall.

Like shaft, like they may have, well, may as well have just put him in like a floor length, fur coat and like add, it feels so intentional. Like here’s our black guy.

Todd: It’s true. It’s true.

Craig: It just, it reads really poorly. Today.

Todd: And also he ends up being the one who leering all over Linnea Quigley. And I don’t know.

I mean, I guess it could have been any one of them and I’m not saying that it was like, Ooh, let’s make it the black guy, but that’s also a little cringey when you kind of add everything together. Yeah. But anyway, when they show up with the house, you know, he’s kinda hanging on her a little bit or hanging back with her and she’s like, Hey, you know, I need some help getting some stuff from the van.

He was like, Oh, I’ll go. I’ll go. They have a little, you know, back and forth.

Craig: I feel like as they’re walking out the door, they bump into the, one of the final characters we meet, who is like the groundskeeper named Elwin. And he’s like this big oafish simpleton who is made out to be threatening and menacing from the beginning.

And I thought, surely. This is a mislead, like surely Elwin is not just going to be this oafish, you know, bad guy, but no, he is. It’s just like the flat characterization ever. Like he’s the groundskeeper, but also he was like the stage manager for the. Uncle who lived in the house, uncle Avery, who was also like a psychic and did an illusionist or something.

Todd: And, and to Satan worshiper, by the way,

Craig: say worshiper. And what happened apparently was they found his. Okay, well, so there’s like a satanic alter in the attic that they find right away. And apparently Avery’s body was found draped over it dissembled and his heart was missing and Agnes tells the story and she’s like, I think that they caught him right in the middle of a city tannic ritual, where he was trying to make himself immortal, but he wasn’t able to finish it, but.

They never found his heart. It’s also silly. Like apparently through, you know, by them being there, it gives him the opportunity to, because there’s a physical, because there’s a physical medium, like I’m literally sitting here rubbing my head cause it’s also convoluted. Mmm. Because they’re there. He can try again.

Todd: Okay. That’s right. And Agnes and Whitney, no way too much. About this guy and what happened in this house? Like they know stuff that you would just have to infer or guess about. They just found this guy murdered. Supposedly nobody knew what it was all about, but I don’t know how these two know all of this detail, but maybe it’s just because they’re experts in the fields.

So they see things, nobody else does.

Craig: Yeah. They immediately, they immediately do what they call a sitting. I don’t know why they call it that I say it’s a

Todd: safe zone.

Craig: Right. You sit there and, you know, look at each other or whatever, and Agnes leads it and she’s like, I’m talking to the spirit of. Avery, whatever his name was.

And, um, I have a mental medium here and a physical medium here, and she says, you can speak to us through the mental medium, which he immediately, the spirit immediately enters Felix’s body, um, and speaks to them in his ghosty voice. And this spirit is supposed to be really scary and yeah. Dangerous and threatening, but when he talks through the guy, even though he’s got kind of this menacing voice, it’s almost like they, like, they caught him right after a nap.

Like, like, what are you doing here? We’re here to talk to you. Oh, Well, I’m going to destroy your soul.

Todd: Who are you? I am here to free you from this house. I do not wish to be free. Then I would force you. We’re not strong enough. I believe I am. I will rise like the Phoenix and destroy you. All of you.

And I love, I love the way that Agnes puts it. She’s cause she’s doing it for us. She’s saying why we have a mental medium here who you can speak through. And then later you can, you know, channel through our physical medium over here and he goes, Maybe later

Craig: and before it is funny. And before they had sat down, she had given Whitney this like contraption, it looks like a. And it’s just a little black box with flashing lights on it.

Todd: It looks like an answering machine.

Craig: It kinda, and Whitney sets it on her lap and they talk to the spirit. She says, show us your power through Whitney.

And he’s like maybe later. And then Felix convulses. And as the spirit exits him, I suppose. And he’s like right after he’s like, I sent something important in the basement.

So they go down to the basement and they’re like looking around and they’re like, I wish I knew what I was looking for. And somebody says, well, we’ll know it when we find it. And eventually Felix is like, here it is. I found it. And there’s a pentagram. It’s not even like a full pentagram. It’s just a star on the wall.

He’s like, this is important for some reason. And then they just leave that alone. Yeah.

Todd: Zooms in ominously on the star. And then. Okay, next scene. We’re all upstairs.

Craig: It’s important for us to know it’s important for later, but we don’t need to worry about it right now.

Todd: We got a lot more movie to go before.

We’re going to come back to this. All right. Folks.

So they do they’re exploring, and this is a bit, I didn’t understand either when they’re in the living room, when they first got in a Whitney who. By the way they cast this woman with these piercings kind of bright green eyes, again, you know, for this, for this role. And at least for that, she was really good.

And she was just, just on edge the whole time. Right. You just felt like she was completely uncomfortable and freaked out by even being there. I don’t know why she didn’t leave the house days ago. I, I don’t know why she sticks around. Yeah. But anyway, she kind of flips out and she goes, Oh, there’s something behind those curtains over there.

And the cop goes over there and he moves the curtain, the side, it says, yeah, the windows filthy back here and they all look back at her and they’re all like, Oh, so I thought we were trying to establish that she’s maybe a little unreliable or that I don’t know what was, what the point of that little episode was.

Cause it was really played up, but she ends up being the person in this whole movie where this guy’s channeling through and anytime something happens. Uh, in the house or to any of these characters, she just goes into these crazy convulsions to show that, you know, he’s channeling through her. So she goes upstairs with, um, with Tony and that’s where they find the alter.

And that’s where she gives more of the backstory and they have this weird conversation about God and.

Craig: It’s so, yes. And it’s just too much, like, I don’t know I was reading reviews or something somewhere, and one of the reviews said like all it’s pandering about God and good evil, and it just doesn’t fit in this movie.

Like this is a silly, dumb movie and it’s like, they try to get. Philosophical for a while. And it just comes across as you just want to let your jaw the roll out of your mouth. Like, uh,

Todd: well, they’re clearly trying a to get this philosophical thing, which is not a theme that carries through, so you’re right.

It doesn’t even thematically work. In the movie. I mean, it’s not just that it falls flat. It’s like they don’t even really commit to it. And then the second thing is, is that you get the sense that they’re trying to, stablish some kind of relationship between these two characters, like for a little bit, Tony’s a little exposed here and he’s actually willing to talk about his philosophy, which is angry.

You know, he’s just like I’ve seen rapes and I’ve seen murders and. You know, 12 year old prostitutes on crack and blah, blah, blah. So there’s clearly, no, God. And then she’s basically, Oh, I feel sorry for you, but you’re going to find out soon enough, you know, the Satan and God are real, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that’s kind of the essence boil down what they’re talking about and then that crops up a little later in the movie, but yeah, it’s not really significant.

It’s just another conversation they have. And you feel like there were working towards some kind of redemption for him. Like he’s finally going to believe he’s finally going to see thing. Any kind of does, but he kind of doesn’t you just, they were trying, but then they just didn’t really bother to see that through.

I think

Craig: that’s the movie. Yeah. It falls flat. I think you’re right. I think that’s what they were trying to do. I think that it was supposed to be a Tory for him at the end and Oh, good. And evil do exist. And, but it just doesn’t read like.

Todd: And with unconvincing characters, you know, you’re going to get everything else is kind of unconvincing too.

Right. So, uh, so I probably, probably that’s it.

Craig: I had mentioned that box before, uh, what’s his name? Tony asks Agnes about it and she’s like, Oh, it’s an invention of mine, basically. It’s just a go it’s a Ghostbusters ghost trap, basically. Okay. Like it, it, she, she gives this big explanation about how ghosts are literally the souls of people that haven’t passed on.

And, um, with this contraption, somehow through Whitney and this contraption, she can trap the ghost in this little box and then take it out of the house. So hence the title, Witchtrap that’s what her invention is. Yeah. So I suppose that’s their goal, but once they have that initial seance and then they kind of go off looking around for a little bit Linea quickly, I just call her that gender.

Um, and Levi go out to the car for something. And I think my favorite line of. The movie. No, really,

Todd: even though you can’t see them with the naked eye, sometimes the camera will pick them up and put them on tape.

Craig: Well,

Todd: scratch my ass.

Craig: Not until I know you better.

One of her only lines and she says, it’s so flirty and I just love her.

Todd: She’s great.

Craig: Then we kind of start getting into, I guess, the, the horror, because like you said, Whitney is alone in her room and she starts convulsing. Meanwhile, Linnea, Quigley. Is taking a shower because she’s Lenay quickly and she’s in a movie and that’s what she do.

Todd: Yes. And once again, like Linnea Quigley in a movie it’s full frontal. Oh

Craig: yeah. Oh yeah. Head to toe full frontal. And, you know, we talked to her about that and she’s comfortable with nudity and good for her and she looks great. And so she’s a, in the shower, Whitney’s convulsing on her bed and the water goes off and she’s like, what?

And she’s like, she’s. Like poking at the shower, head and looking up in it. Um, and then just out of nowhere in a split second, get the shower, head shoots out of the wall, directly into her neck, like stabs her in the neck and then pulls back in and she’s dead. And I was so bombed that she was forced to go.

I mean, I guess it should have been predictable, but I would’ve, I would’ve so liked to have seen more of hers. I think that she could have brought a lot more life. And levity to the movie that was needed.

Todd: And, and I mean, this is one of the more creative kills I’ve seen in a movie. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the shower head, just sort of extend like that pipe extends out of the wall and shoots into her neck and then pulls back.

It’s very supernatural. Cause something like that could never actually happen. But then. You know, later on when the girls are talking about it. Well, they, they, they what’s her name’s convulsing. And so there’s that, there’s also two times division screens downstairs because these video cameras that they set up for the sitting are still running.

And so we see on these television screens, a very ghostly Avery walking up towards. His urn of ashes on the mantle of the fireplace, but then that goes, trap thing is next to it. So he cringes back in terror and walks away

Craig: and he does that two or three times, like it’s so dumb.

Todd: It took me a while to realize what was going on here.

Cause later on those ashes disappear. And so I guess the ghost was trying to get the ashes, but that ghost trap being positioned where it was. Was keeping him away from it. It wasn’t until the movie was over that I put all that together. So that happens. But then once they kind of comfort a Whitney, then, uh, they realized where’s, uh, where’s ginger.

And then somebody says, Oh, ginger was upstairs taking a shower. And so they run upstairs and the cops opened the door and see her body in there. Oh. And, and run out. So there. Now they’re arguing, what are they going to do?

Craig: And they, they, they think that Elwin killed her because Levi had caught Elwin peeping at one of the other ladies.

So they think it was him. But the thing that bothered me about this scene was they find her dead. And like in this happens in horror movies, but it always bothers me.

Todd: Like

Craig: they just leave her there and they’re not particularly upset or concerned. Yes. Like

Todd: even later. The two girls are like discussing and they’re like, man, can you imagine?

I mean, what happened to ginger? How did she die? Do you really think that guy could have done it? I mean, he would just go in there and stab her and the other girl’s like, well, maybe he raped her before that. She was like, Oh yeah, maybe he did rape her. Like what?

Craig: Like this now,

Todd: I mean, this is. This is how bad the dialogue is in this movie.

It’s just, it’s just

Craig: loud. I know. And it’s so silly. Like Whitney somehow. No, not Whitney. I keep getting them mixed up. Agnes somehow convinces them to stay, which is also stupid.

Todd: So convoluted. And it’s all about making Murphy, you know? Oh, well, what happens if I call and say that, you know, the reason that she’s dead is because the security was so bad on our thing.

Murphy’s are we going to let that happen normal? Or we won’t call anybody.

Craig: Right. So they send like Levi for the police. I don’t remember, which happens first. Um, when Levi goes, like he drives out to the gate, but the gate is locked. And so he’s standing in front of the gate and then Whitney has another one of her seizures and the car comes to life and like first pins him against the gate and then backs up and then he falls down and it runs him over and he’s dead, but they don’t know that.

So they’re all just still hanging out in the house. And at one point, Felix and Whitney are having a conversation and I have to say that they are both just insufferable. Like they’re absolutely awful. Um, they’re terrible. Terrible actors is specially. Rob’s Apple who plays Felix. I really want to believe for his sake that it was just so poorly written and directed that it wasn’t a true reflection of his abilities.

Cause if it was who boy, but. They have a conversation and he’s like, Oh, you know, when somebody dies, it makes it real. And she’s like, well, people die all the time. And he’s like, yeah, but it’s different if it’s somebody, you know, and she’s like, well, Felix, we barely knew her.

We only worked with her one other time, so it’s not like we really knew her anyway.

Todd: Okay.

Craig: Yeah. Okay. I guess

Todd: this actually was the only moment in the movie when I did laugh out loud. Why would Elwin kill ginger? I don’t know. She was naked in the shower. Maybe he raped her first, probably. So it just seems so senseless. Name me a killing that isn’t senseless, I suppose. But it has more of an impact when it’s someone, you know, personally, we didn’t really know ginger all that.

Well, dear, we only worked with her that one time at the stone mansion. Oh God. So anyway, they do that. And then, so there’s the casual rape talk about ginger and, uh, the long conversation about Agnes, his motivations, like you said, and this is when we learn that Agnes is really hoping to get like a book deal out of this, or really boost up her.

Presence in their business or whatever. So she’s like, if I can finally. Finally catch a ghost, then this is my biggest shot ever had. So that’s why she’s so obsessive about everybody staying and seeing this through. And then, um, Whitney convulses, again, this year, this kill comes completely out of nowhere.

It feels, it was just like, Oh yeah, we gotta do something about Murphy. So let’s kill him off. Whitney just starts. Like we switched from all these scenes, which are interconnected to Whitney convulsing again, and Murphy cleaning his gun. And a bullet rises out of an, a box of ammo and goes straight into Murphy’s forehead and shoots him, which actually I thought was kind of a cool kill again, not something I’ve think I’ve seen in any other movies where just a bullet flies through the air, just propelled by a ghost and that, and this.

Kill scene. And also Levi’s kill scene had to be cut short a little bit because the movie would have gotten an X rating. So we’d never actually see the car rolling over Levi’s head, which is apparently a deleted scene. And we don’t see. Like a closeup of, of Murphy’s brains getting blown out. And the funny thing is Murphy gets killed and I don’t think, does anybody ever discover the body or notice that Murphy is missing?

Craig: Yes. Uh, because they, Agnes walks in on Whitney having her seizure and she’s like, Oh no, he got to you behind our backs. Um, and he was working through you behind our backs. Like when you were alone, he waited until you were alone and then he got to you. And so they know that he. Could have done something.

So then they go looking around and they find the dead guy and Tony says no, and a ghost didn’t kill him. He got shot. It must have been Elwin. They just keep blaming everything on Elwin. And is that the point when Tony like runs now they’re actually going to leave, right?

Todd: Yeah. But Tony goes to the basement.

I think it’s around the same time. Isn’t it? Maybe it’s concurrent with this bullet in the head thing. Where he is in the basement for some reason. And he’s looking around and a knife flies off the wall and pins him to a pillar just through his clothes. It doesn’t actually hit him because I think it’s at the moment that Agnes wakes up.

Whitney, uh, that, that knife is kind of midair. So it’s, it’s a little off, but then for some reason, Elwood is actually down there in the basement too. And he attacks Tony again for no good reason, except he’s like, you guys are going to get out of here. It’s, you know, you’re all gonna die and blah, blah, blah.

Craig: Yeah, he will rise again.

Todd: They have the worst fight scene. It’s just like punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, fallback, punch some more. It’s really. I mean, it’s not thrilling and then Elwin kind of escapes. Right. He just runs out the door or something.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. And so then when they decide to leave and it’s especially important that they get Whitney out of there.

Because she apparently is the key to this ritual. And without her she’s removed from the equation, then the ghost is powerless. So it’s important that she get out of there. So Tony goes to get the car or the van or whatever.

Todd: There’s a van there for S yeah, it’s the van that they brought.

Craig: I just, I I’m, I’m getting, they get, uh, Whitney out.

Tony gets Whitney out. Somehow. I think that Elwin. Shoots the van and blows it up. But somehow they get her out in the car and they get the gate open and he sends her off and he also kills Elwin when he has to shoot L one like 15 times. Before the guy actually goes down

Todd: execution style in the head.

Craig: Oh, and what does he say?

Oh, he holds the gun up to his head and says, Oh, come on. Yeah, that reference was dated even in the eighties, like, Ugh. Oh, and Felix got shot. El one shot, Felix, it’s stupid. Like the Felix here’s, the van exploded and he comes out and he’s like,

Todd: Tony told him what’s going on.

Craig: And then he gets shot. And then while Tony’s off getting Whitney out of there, um, Felix is like, I think we should do another sitting

Todd: right as he’s bleeding.

Right.

Craig: Oh, and my, another of my favorite lines is when they get back inside, when Tony gets the shot, Felix, back inside, Agnes says,

Todd: you won’t get it.

See, these

Craig: are the line. Oh my gosh.

Todd: But then comes something. I was totally not expecting. They do their little sitting. And Angus was like, all right. If you think we need to do a sitting, let’s do a sitting. And Felix wakes up and he channels immediately the bad guy and the camera’s close up on Felix face.

And then he goes, and then head explodes. Yes, it was beautiful. But that completely, Oh God, I was not expecting that.

Craig: It was, it was hilarious. I don’t know if you remember. Um, Agnes antagonized him about something I don’t like

Todd: at this point, he’s completely off the rails. It’s like they’ve broken their own rules.

Like this guy can make this dude’s head explode. Where did that come from? It’s it’s not like Whitney was convulsing or anything at the time this was happening.

Craig: Right. Supposedly she’s not even there. Like, and so she’s driving down the highway and she sees the bad guy in the middle of the road. And like, she’s going to try to run him down, even though he’s a ghost.

What, but instead, right before she is about to strike him, he disappears and there’s a semi coming right at her. So she drives off the road.

Todd: But, but look at this, this doesn’t even make sense. Why would he be trying to kill her? She’s one of his keys to getting into the world and affecting the world. So why would he even try it, be trying to get her into a head on with the,

Craig: it makes even less sense when she arrives at the police station and she goes to run in the door and she actually, we then go.

As she’s running up to the police station, we return to Tony and Whitney at the house. And Tony goes to open the door, like to the outside of the house. And Whitney comes running in and she was like, Oh my God, it was a trick. I never even left the grounds. Then what was all that nonsense on the highway about like,

Todd: yeah, I mean, it was a cool idea, but it was not.

Executed well, so they’re there. And for some reason, is it Agnes who says, we know always during, when they’re channeling the bad guy for the last time she says to him, we know where your heart is, and I don’t know what point they figured that out. It’s never really explained to us, but I mean, we all knew Doug it’s behind the pentagram in the basement.

Like it’s the only mysterious part of this, of this building. You haven’t checked out. So they’re down there and Agnus is like, we’ve got it. We’ve got to get his heart. She says, we’ve got to prevent him from reuniting his heart with his body because that will bring him back to life or something. And the urn has gone missing with his ashes in it, which presumably the ghost has taken.

So they have to find the heart and I guess, or something

Craig: or something, I don’t know.

Todd: Yeah. Really clear. They just know they need to get the hearts. So the ghost doesn’t get the heart. And she has figured out at some point, which we don’t really know that the heart is behind this thing. So they get a little chisel out and they bang out the rock.

Behind the pentagram and sure enough, they pull out a box, you know, with satanic signs all over it and the lock on it, it looks like the box out of snow white, to be honest with you, it’s, it’s kind of cute. And, and they pull that out and they just say, Oh, as hard as in here, they don’t, they don’t open it up.

And I’ll look in, I really wanted to see. What a dead guy’s heart would have looked like in this box, but we never get that opportunity. And then from here, Agnes, like all hell breaks loose in the Bay. I think Whitney goes into her convulsions again, and an ax flies through the air goes right into Agnes head.

So Agnes is dead and then the same act starts flying through the air towards. Tony, but they have that box down there, which they had brought the witch trap, the wishy app, and he holds it up and suddenly it’s like a cartoon like that, that, that acts goes and stops like floating in front of him and drops down.

And instead of, I guess, because the ghost got too close to the which trap, uh, it starts sucking it in with this. It’s a fact of the, of smoke going into this, which trap. So they set the witch trap down, but immediately Whitney says, uh, I can sense that that’s not going to hold him. He’s really, really pissed off in there and he’s going to get out soon.

We got to find a way to, to, to, to kill him for good. Good. We have to get that earned. You know, with his ashes in it. And they’ve been talking about finding this the whole.

Craig: Yeah. And they’re like, well, we don’t know where it is. And uh, Whitney’s like, well, you’re a detective figure it out.

And so, and so then he sits in thinks real hard. He goes, if I were an urn full of ashes, where would I be?

Todd: And then.

Craig: And then they look at each other and both say at the same time, The altar.

Todd: So they go up to the attic to the alter and I don’t know, is she had like some kind of trance or something. Do you just walk

Craig: toward the

Todd: culture? Like they know what,

Craig: yeah. But they get up there and, and, and they’re, they they’re like, Oh, like the house is shaking and we can see the witch trap, like shaking and smoking.

And then they’re like, Oh, it’s not here.

Then the bad guy busts out of the witch trap. And then I think once he busts out, he possesses her,

Todd: right? Yup. Yup. He possesses her. He goes into her and she walks towards the alter. And pushes a little panel on the front where the pentagram is, and that falls open and reaches in and pulls out the urn and closes it up.

And then she turns around and drinks the ashes down, which then there’s this really long scene where Tony’s like, Oh, Uh, Whitney. Whitney. Are you okay? Whitney? Whitney. Are you okay? Walking slowly towards her while her back is entirely to him motionless, not saying a word. And when he turns her around, of course she is now this guy, the bad guy.

Craig: Physically, like she’s turned into him

Todd: and it’s this same guy. It’s the same guy that we’ve seen in the photographs is the same guy from Witchboard. And he’s like, ah, standing there in front of Tony.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s silly. It’s I guess the final showdown, Tony shoots him a bunch of times. Of course, that doesn’t work, I guess, because even though he’s a mortal now, so, um, the bullets, I guess, just like they don’t even.

Have any physical effect on him at all? Like they just go through them and hit whatever’s behind him and they fight for a while all, and it’s all very silly. And like the bad guy like holds him up. In the air and is, you know, I don’t know, saying menacing things or whatever. Um, but finally I guess Tony breaks free and I don’t know, he says something

Todd: stupid when he really is all, it’s just one of those things.

Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. And so he, and he shoots the heart box. It starts to bleed and the bad guy, Avery. Starts to bleed also. And he shoots it several times and eventually, somehow it ends up this isn’t like fly out the window or

Todd: something. Yeah. I don’t remember. How does Tony throw it out the window or something? I’m not sure actually how that,

Craig: I don’t know, but it lands on the ground and explodes and there’s blood everywhere.

Um, and then Avery like burns slash melts and the effects here were. Pretty good, but they lingered on it with way too long. Like it went on for a really long time and it, you know, it was just melting wax off of some sort of form. But finally, when it’s all melted away, all that’s left is like a skeleton.

And then. These, you know, woman hands that came from her, I don’t know where reach up, pull the skull plates off Whitney’s face and it’s Whitney underneath and she’s fine. That’s really the end. But then they do this stupid end cap. It’s Tony, it’s dumb.

Todd: What is it? I mean, what is, what is this supposed to mean?

Craig: I think it’s supposed to, to suggest that he now runs his own PI firm. And people are calling him for paranormal jobs, but he’s not interested in. Um, and then he has, well, we see the bad guy, Avery doing something, I don’t know, just like approaching the camera or something back at the house. And then Tony like wakes up with a start.

Like he was just dreaming that. And then that’s the end. It cuts to black and the credits roll. I don’t know. It’s a really, really stupid end cap

Todd: or trying to set it up with it for a sequel or if this was just because as soon as the scene started, I’m like, Oh God, this movies. Not done yet. Like it should be done by now.

And he has that right. Really long conversation with that woman on the phone, telling us about how miserable he is now and about how naive people are. It goes tunings, not all it’s cracked up to be, and he hangs it up and then he has that jump scare and then he wakes up and then there’s a good. Five or eight seconds of just him startled afterwards, staring off into space.

Shit. Yeah. I don’t know what it’s supposed to mean. I really don’t. I mean, again, again, it wasn’t like a, even if you were to look at this theme of him getting his redemption and learning about God and Satan and it’s all real. It doesn’t even make sense in the context of that. He’s just sitting there like super depressed.

So yeah. I don’t know. Yeah. What a movie, right? It was interesting. I mean, this is the movie you make fun of. This is exactly the movement. Yeah. And it’s a shame it’s so weird coming from this director. Like, I mean, I’m not saying he’s the best director in the world, but none of the demons was a corny movie, but it was a fun movie.

Craig: Oh, super fun.

Todd: Full of energy. Facts and just off the wall, I mean, just a blast from beginning to end it also a bit of a comedy, right? I mean, it knew what it was. It was, it was so good. Witchboard we laughed at that too, but it had heart and it was fun and the characters were interesting

Craig: and the acting was, yeah, it was okay.

Todd: But this is like, The complete opposite. It’s just horrible. Every bit of it is just dumb,

Craig: really, really bad.

Todd: The acting is bad. The Mo the film is so convoluted and it’s just, it’s like, I don’t know, it feels like a tax write off movie that somebody had to throw together, you know? And just so dumb. Huh? So what a shame, but it was, again, the movie you make fun of.

You get together with friends, you make fun of it. I think this is perfect. Perfect for that. And on that level, just the sheer inanity of this film, it was enjoyable on that level. For me. I can’t recommend it. But if you’re in the mood for doing that, then I’d recommend it.

Craig: It’s almost, I wish that it hadn’t taken itself so seriously.

I think if they had leaned into the corniness a little bit more, it would have been more fun. But yeah, I mean, if. If, if you’re looking for something stupid and mindless and, and really something to watch for the purpose of goofing on it. Great. Otherwise I would say

Todd: exactly

Craig: not a good movie. It’s a bad movie.

And I guess what I was trying to get at just a second ago was it’s just not quite so bad. It’s good. Um, it’s just, yeah. Bad.

I’m glad we watched it. Cause I was looking forward to talking about how bad it is, but that’s kind of the only reason that you would want to watch it.

Todd: It’s the only redeeming quality. Somehow this movie made it out to the public and somehow is making money from people like us actually watching it again.

I get the figure. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find our Facebook page. You can find our website and just search two guys in a chainsaw. And to leave us a comment, let’s let us know what you thought of this movie, and also give us some requests for films that you would like to see us review in the future until next time.

I’m Todd and I’m Craig with two guys and a the chainsaw.