July 08, 2025

212. Can toxic cultures really change? Inside BrewDog, NatWest and secret burnout. PLUS! Why do wellbeing leaders have to be perfect? With Matt Smeed

58 minutes

Welcome back to Truth, Lies & Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture — brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

Hosted by Chartered Occupational Psychologist Leanne Elliott and business owner Al Elliott, this is your Tuesday news round-up, workplace surgery, and expert take — all in one.

🔥 Stories Covered

📌 1. BrewDog says it’s all about wellbeing now
After years of scandal and staff walkouts, BrewDog is trying to clean up its act — training 200 mental health first aiders and rolling out a new leadership charter. But are we buying it? And what does real culture change actually look like?

📰 Source: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/brewdog-leaves-punk-era-behind-to-focus-on-staff-wellbeing-d03xht2rx

📌 2. NatWest starts thinking like a tech company
From giving back nearly half a million staff hours to killing off bad ideas fast, NatWest’s COO is leading a culture shift inside one of the UK’s biggest banks. Is this the future of large-scale transformation?

📰 Source: https://www.strategy-business.com/article/The-new-way-NatWest-Group-is-making-work-better

📌 3. Stuck employees act out — and here’s the science behind it
New research finds that career plateaus don’t just hurt motivation — they drain people’s mental energy and make them more likely to break rules, disengage, or behave badly. Not because they’re unprofessional… but because they’re burned out and stuck.

📄 Study: Zhao, Chen & Xie (2025), Journal of Occupational and Organizational Psychology

🔗 https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joop.12532

🔗 Follow-up: ⁠https://medium.com/@truthlieswork/stuck-in-a-dead-end-job-youre-more-likely-to-lash-out-2de4f22ccdca

🔥 Hot Take: Matt Smeed on Why Wellbeing Leaders Are Held to Impossible Standards

Matt Smeed — Business Psychologist and co-founder of the Working Well Community — joins us to ask a simple question: why do wellbeing leaders have to be perfect?

Other departments are allowed to try, fail and iterate. But when it comes to wellbeing, the bar’s sky-high. Matt argues it’s time to ditch the perfectionism and make space for progress.

More from Matt Smeed:
🌐 Website: www.workingwell.community
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-smeed-b6033922/

👨‍💼 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@workingwellcommunity

💬 Workplace Surgery

❓ Do investors care about culture — and how do you prove it?
A founder gearing up for their first funding round wants to show off their strong team culture. But will investors actually value it — and how do you make it measurable?

❓ Should I tell my boss I’m burnt out — or just push through?
They’ve been the fixer, the firefighter, the one who holds it all together. Now they’re running on empty. But will honesty help… or backfire?

❓ I’ve been asked to gather peer feedback — but no one wants to talk to me
Their boss wants them to be the “culture go-between.” They feel awkward, underqualified, and unsure how to do it. Is it OK to push back?

🎧 Enjoying the show?
Follow, share, and leave us a review wherever you listen — and don’t forget to join us Thursday for a masterclass in managing people who are smarter than you (yes, really).

🧠 Support with Mental Health and Well-being

Mind UK: https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/
Samaritans (UK): Call 116 123 or email [email protected]

📬 Connect with Al & Leanne

LinkedIn (Show): https://www.linkedin.com/company/truth-lies-and-work/
Al Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisisalelliott
Leanne Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetleanne
Email: [email protected]
Book a call: https://savvycal.com/meetleanne/chat

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By HubSpot Podcast Network

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