When we were in New York recently, I dropped by to visit Douglas Rushkoff at his Queens College office. For those who don’t recall Douglas from his previous times on this podcast, he’s a media professor, documentary-maker, host of the Team Human podcast, and best-selling author of 20 books - including the updated edition of Program or Be Programmed, out now, with particular additions around AI. There’s a launch party for that tonight if you happen to be in or near NY. Douglas is also one of the pioneering forces behind the internet. So when he tells me in this conversation that he’s starting to believe that the whole narrative of the internet is bull shit, it feels big.

We actually sat down over lunch initially, but hadn’t talked long before Douglas suggested we press record on it – that others might be interested in this too. So this one’s a little different. Going out on both our podcasts. Less interview, more conversation. On our respective lives and work, their latest surprising turns, magic, perspective and possibility, and yes, this journey of ours across the US this year. Including the light all that might shine on the US elections. It wound up feeling like a fun and profound tonic for the week ahead, and this high stakes time generally.

For those who’ve listened to this on Team Human already, you’ll find a tad lighter edit here, with a little more of the personal stuff left in, in case that’s of interest to you.

This episode has chapter markers and a transcript (available on most apps now too). The transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully provides greater access for those who need or like to read.

Recorded 9 October 2024 (inc. subway snippets; intro recorded in Baltimore).

Title slide: Douglas & AJ after recording (pic: Josh Chapdelaine).

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Music:
Green Shoots, by The Nomadics.
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, from Regenerating Australia.

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Pre-roll music: River, by Onyx Music (sourced from Artlist). 

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