When it comes to startup success, few voices are as insightful as Rich Hagberg and Tien Tzuo. On this episode of “Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different,” these two innovators unveiled the complex tapestry of traits, behaviors, and pitfalls that define great founders.

With decades of psychological research and hands-on experience in the tech ecosystem, they’ve distilled their findings in their new book, Founders, Keepers: Why Founders Are Built to Fail and What It Takes to Succeed. This lively, honest conversation goes far beyond the usual business platitudes, aiming to equip listeners, whether aspiring entrepreneurs, seasoned founders, or investors, with tools for self-awareness, adaptability, and ultimately, building companies that last.

You’re listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let’s go.

One of the core insights that Hagberg and Tzuo bring forward is the “double-edged sword” nature of founder psychology. Successful founders often possess massive vision and creative drive, seeing the future before others do and inspiring teams with almost evangelical zeal. Yet, these very strengths can morph into ticking time bombs as companies grow.

Founders are frequently high in vision but far less gifted in execution or relationship building. Hagberg’s decades of data, including 50+ measured personality elements and 46 leadership competencies, reveal consistent patterns: founders often struggle to manage and scale companies beyond their own shadow. As Hagberg observes, those strong on visionary skills can be “allergic to structure,” resisting the very systems and processes that enable growth and stability. Tien Tzuo, drawing on his own journey as a founder, recounts the moment when his company started unraveling as it outgrew his initial hands-on approach. The culture suffered, teams fragmented, and productivity declined. Only by honestly confronting his own leadership shortcomings and seeking help from coaches like Hagberg, was he able to pivot and build an organization beyond himself.

The lesson is clear: self-awareness is not optional; it’s the foundation for sustainable success.

Delving deeper, Lochhead, Hagberg, and Tzuo discuss a trait that repeatedly separates successful founders from those destined to “blow up”: brutal, reflective self-awareness. Hagberg’s research shows that founders who actively seek feedback, reflect on both successes and failures, and are open to learning are dramatically more successful than their peers. It’s not just about innate curiosity; it’s about the willingness to recognize weakness, hire complementary strengths, and genuinely adapt as the organization matures.

This journey often requires what the guests jokingly call becoming a “recovering founder,” someone who learns the hard way that vision alone won’t scale an enterprise. The most successful founders are those who create adaptable organizations, listen keenly to advisors and employees, and deliberately build processes for collective decision-making. They reserve their opinions in meetings, choosing instead to solicit diverse viewpoints before weighing in; a counterintuitive move that leads to more honest conversations and smarter strategy.

The inability to adapt, on the other hand, is lethal. Data from Hagberg’s cohorts shows that unsuccessful founders are consistently more egotistical and stubborn, craving to be right over being successful and cultivating environments where disagreement is stifled. This leads to what Hagberg terms “sunflower bias”; teams that simply turn to follow the founder, rather than challenging assumptions or uncovering blind spots.

Rich and Tien are passionate about debunking the myth that great founders succeed by being abrasive, arrogant, or ruthlessly self-serving. Media coverage of figures like Jobs or Musk often focuses on tempestuous behavior, but Hagberg’s research tells a different story: the truly successful founders are team builders, not lone wolves. They recognize that the success of their companies will ultimately ride on their ability to work through others, to coach and empower executives who compensate for their own gaps.

This doesn’t mean abdication; delegation must be paired with ongoing accountability and support. Effective founders, they argue, are clear about their standards but also present to lend a hand or coach when their teams hit roadblocks. This blend of challenge and support builds resilient organizations freed from the chaos that can follow a purely top-down leadership style.

To hear more from Rich Hagberg and Tien Tzuo about Founders and how one can avoid the pitfalls of Entrepreneurship, download and listen to this episode.

Rich Hagberg

Rich Hagberg is the co-author of Founders, Keepers, a compelling exploration of leadership, resilience, and the inner journey of entrepreneurship. With decades of experience guiding executives and innovators, he blends practical wisdom with deep psychological insight to help founders navigate the personal and professional challenges of building lasting companies.

As a trusted advisor and coach, Rich has worked with leaders across industries, shaping cultures that foster growth, creativity, and authentic connection. His unique approach integrates business strategy with mindfulness and self-awareness, empowering individuals to lead with clarity and purpose.

Through his writing and speaking, Rich inspires entrepreneurs to align vision with values. Founders, Keepers distills these lessons into an engaging narrative, offering guidance for those who seek not only to create successful ventures but to sustain their own well-being and integrity.

Tien Tzuo

Tien Tzuo, acclaimed co-author of Founders, Keepers, is a visionary entrepreneur and respected thought leader in the subscription economy. Best known as the founder and CEO of Zuora, he has helped redefine how companies build recurring revenue models, drawing on decades of experience at the forefront of technology and innovation.

In Founders, Keepers, Tien shares powerful insights on leadership, culture, and the enduring commitment required to build companies that last. His writing blends practical guidance with stories from his own journey scaling global businesses.

A sought-after speaker and mentor, Tien inspires founders to stay true to their mission while adapting to change, fostering organizations that thrive for generations.

Connect with Rich Hagberg & Tien Tzuo!

Rich Hagberg

Hagberg Consulting Website | LinkedIn | Medium

Tien Tzuo

Zuora Website | LinkedIn | Medium

Check out Founders, Keepers on Amazon Books! 

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!