A Rational Fear

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Joining us on A Rational Fear this week are fearmongers:

Vidya Rajan
Gabbi Bolt
Lewis Hobba
Dan Ilic
and Graham Readfearn

We talk about Billboards, Australia being a bad actor on the world stage (again) BlackRock's double standards. Prequels that don't need to exist. And Graham Readfearn from The Guardian Australia talking about their incredible Australia vs The Climate podcast.

PATREON 💸:

If you enjoy our podcast, emails and important climate change conversations, chip in here:  www.patreon.com/arationalfear

Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the  Bertha Foundation

Dan Ilic  0:04  
Hello Lewis.

Lewis Hobba  0:05  
Hello Daniel. How are you?

Dan Ilic  0:08  
Oh good, but not as good as you look so he looks so tanned. So yeah

Lewis Hobba  0:15  
yeah, me and my people we can very easily. It was. I had a week off. I hope you had a good show last week.

Dan Ilic  0:21  
I was great.

Lewis Hobba  0:22  
I'm sure it was not as good as usual I would imagine.

Dan Ilic  0:26  
No, you're correct it wasn't as good we did miss a certain there was a shouldn't certain genres acquire that was missing from the program.

Lewis Hobba  0:33  
Yeah, I mean, I just say the choir it's me.

Dan Ilic  0:37  
I'm recording my end of irrational feet on Gadigal land in the Eora. Nation. Sovereignty was never seated, waited a treaty. Let's stop the shot.

Unknown Speaker  0:44  
A rational field contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of our rational view recommended listening my immature audience.

Dan Ilic  0:57  
Tonight the federal government commits net zero by 2050. By announcing existing policies Angus Taylor says it shows the government's commitment to recycling and economists say that the chances of hitting net zero by 2050 are about 5050 and Andrew lambing MP withdrawals an apology for the treatment of to Brisbane women, prompting Andrew lemmings dad to apologize for not withdrawing to create Andrew laming. It's the 29th of October and things are about to get spooky. This is a rational fear.

Hello, welcome to rational fee. I'm your host, former president of the walker Walker Gun Club Dan Ilic. And this is a rational fear the podcast that brings a little nihilistic joy to your existential anxiety. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. They caught a break at the start of their pandemic and just like COVID-19 Now they're everywhere from the feed vigia Rajon vija. How does it feel to be everywhere?

Vidya Rajan  1:58  
It's good. I always wanted to achieve, like cosmic union,

Dan Ilic  2:03  
and they've booked their first ever solo festival shows so you better go along and say it otherwise I'll give up comedy forever. From the chaser podcast. It's the overstretch. Gabby Bowles.

Gabbi Bolt  2:12  
Hello. Yes. I have no idea if I'm any good at this still. It's been almost a year, and I still don't know.

Dan Ilic  2:19  
Yes, I look. Finally you'll have the opportunity to be rejected by hundreds of people.

Gabbi Bolt  2:23  
I cannot wait. I cannot wait. I have like the T's in a jar ready to go to sprinkle on all of my sorry notes.

Dan Ilic  2:32  
And they fresh from holidays where he saw sunshine for the first time in 120 days. He's tall and tan, just like Barnaby Joyce's riding boots. It's Lewis harbor.

Lewis Hobba  2:42  
That's right. Slip into me. That'd be good to be back. After. After a week off. I had a nice time I went to Greater Sydney. I went an hour and a half away. It's the furthest I've been away since about April, I think and it's nice in Greater Sydney.

Dan Ilic  2:58  
How did you feel about Greater Sydney versus less Greater Sydney? What's what's your favorite? Where's your favorite place to be?

Lewis Hobba  3:03  
Yeah, I mean, I live in Leicester, Sydney. I live in the potter city. There's just all like rats and cockroaches. I went out to to VOCA, which is a little bit north. Heaven up there. Dan. I saw I saw a dolphin and a shark.

Dan Ilic  3:18  
Oh my goodness. That's the future. Coming up a little later on. We speak with Graham Redfin, from The Guardian about a true crime podcast series that highlights in gruesome detail the murdering of climate policy by Australia. But first, a message from this week's sponsor. This episode of irrational fear is brought to you by the camera modeling agency for when you need to put on a show. The Emperor says some wearing no clothes. Our plan

Unknown Speaker  3:43  
for net zero by 2050 is the plan that I believe Australians want. Scott put it away

Dan Ilic  3:51  
the camera modeling agency, the critics contact you if you've got nothing to show. This is our small handful.

Gabbi Bolt  3:57  
Ours is getting boring.

Dan Ilic  3:59  
This week's first fear billboards, folks, we've done it. We've done our billboard campaign has gone off. It's been quite a few busy weeks for me. We've raised $226,000. From your Yes, yeah. Have you I know you've been away, Louis. So you probably haven't actually caught up on what we've been doing on the podcast while you've been away for the last couple of weeks.

Lewis Hobba  4:24  
I mean, I didn't listen, I'm not an idiot. I muted you on Twitter.

Dan Ilic  4:30  
There are a lot of comedians who've unfollowed me on Twitter.

Gabbi Bolt  4:35  
That's how you know you're famous Dan.

Dan Ilic  4:38  
Yeah, yeah. So we've we've we've raised $226,000 from 2580 people who are very annoyed about climate action or the lack of climate action from our government. We've absolutely shattered through our initial campaign of raising $12,000 And now we're paying for three huge billboards in July. One is on the Glasgow expressway between the cop center, the cop Conference Center and the airport. And the other two, one is on shelters and road in in garter share Glasgow and the other is on Rocklin Road in Strathclyde. Glasgow. So we've got we've got three giant billboards coming.

Lewis Hobba  5:21  
Did you get any like hot tips from locals on whether or not those are areas that were densely populated? ago? Or are you just you just hitting and swinging and missing? To be

Dan Ilic  5:30  
honest, the Glasgow tower expressway is the big one. And that was sold into me hard by the out of home company. They said, Yeah, this is a pretty big one, right? Because the one I initially bought books for them was a real shitty one in a in a like a commuter cab.

Lewis Hobba  5:44  
Yeah. I was chatting to my family last night. And now like all the dads billboard campaigns going really well. I'm like, Yeah, it's amazing. And because my parents live in Torquay, in Victoria, and I was like, there's been one in Tokyo for like, a month. And that was like, Oh, we haven't seen it. I'm like, I don't know where he's put it.

Dan Ilic  6:04  
It's only Great Ocean Road. Like it's like, the main strip.

Lewis Hobba  6:08  
Yeah, I guess my parents are getting out much.

Vidya Rajan  6:10  
How long? How long is that one gonna be off? Can I go visit?

Dan Ilic  6:14  
Yeah, you certainly certainly can. I think it's going to be up for the next couple of months. So that one was given to us was a was a gift from the outdoor company gawk. So thank you, GOC for that, so they'll get to see they're gonna run that for a couple months for us for free. They just want to be part of the action. But we've had some we've had some artwork rejected from the out of home company. So let me show you what we're running. Here's what we're running. We're running Net Zero ambitions by 2050. Australia. We're running the other one from from New York, which is cuddle a koala before we make them extinct. And the other one we're running is the apology where we said we're sorry that Australia's bullshitting on our emissions targets. But they rejected the bullshitting with the Asterix in the word because they said it's swearing. So we've had to replace the word bullshitting with a Scottish word could hovering, which is apparently a Scottish word for foolish talk. So it kind of makes sense. How Lovering pavered Hmm.

Lewis Hobba  7:19  
Is this a drop bear situation? Have you been

Unknown Speaker  7:23  
favored?

Dan Ilic  7:27  
I don't know. Maybe we've been Haven. It's a good enough story anyway, I think I think it'll work. So yeah, it's really good. Anyway, look, this is something we don't often talk about on the podcast. Because as our revenue grows, we we have a thing where we pay the rent, we give 5% of our Patreon to seed mob. So this project, it's going to be exciting to give $10,000 to between two groups seed mob and Wang and Jinglu cultural custodians who are defending their ancestral land on, which is where Adani is trying to build a mine. So that's really exciting. So big thank you. To all those folks who've chipped in, we are going to fall asleep spend the rest of your money on making jokes between now and May. And we've also got our billboard today went up in Armadale in Barnaby Joyce is illiterate, there it is their net zero by 2300. And we've also got a billboard that went up in Kooyong. Now, we are not allowed to advertise anything political in that particular billboard. So we ran this one, hey, it's time to buy a standing desk because you're about to lose your seat. And with enough space there for someone to write whenever they want. Ah, you know, so that's that's potentially potentially but we don't want

Lewis Hobba  8:41  
Josh there. That would be an option, wouldn't they should wouldn't that be awful?

Dan Ilic  8:45  
Or if they wrote Louis, I know, Louis, you don't have a standing desk? No,

Lewis Hobba  8:49  
that's true. That's true. I would love one.

Dan Ilic  8:53  
I do have some news on that particular billboard, though. Someone has defected already.

Lewis Hobba  9:00  
Didn't want to happen.

Dan Ilic  9:01  
Did they have royally? Like kind of done a great job? Well, have they done? This is what they've done.

So for people who are listening to the podcast, instead of writing Josh after, hey, you Frydenberg in our writers at the very bottom of the artwork, so it says, hey, it's time to bystanders because you're about to lose your seat. Frydenberg

Vidya Rajan  9:35  
grammatically, yeah, perfect. And it's so frightening. The handwriting is so beautiful.

Dan Ilic  9:43  
Someone sent it to me and they said, We're two geriatric people and we tried to give it a go and we were too nervous to climb the ladder that we brought and I was like, well, that is amazing. The beautiful thing

Gabbi Bolt  9:56  
about them the notebooks over We call it like the notepad.

Lewis Hobba  10:01  
Yeah, but it's down.

Dan Ilic  10:07  
This week's second fee follow the money in 2018, the world's largest fund trader, Blackrock said they'd no longer invest in companies that failed to demonstrate that they also serve a social purpose, as well as generating profits. Now, this is a big deal. They have 8.7 trillion in investment and you can buy a lot for 8.7 trillion. You could get 10 and a half wars in Afghanistan for that kind of money. Or a three bedroom house in Sydney. Look, it is a lot of money. This week at a conference in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, also known as the new castle of the Middle East, the CEO of Blackrock put his words behind green tech as the place where the next 1000 unicorns would be born. That is, private businesses worth over a billion dollars in such industries as green hydrogen, green cement and green steel in his mind, it'll make great money. fear mongers is Larry Fink, correct? The next 1000 unicorns gonna come out of these sectors vigia?

Vidya Rajan  11:02  
Probably, I don't know, like, I think we're looking for so many things to save us. But I think what's really interesting is that he said that and then I think they invest in the Commonwealth Bank, and they are they're like, major shareholders. And then the Commonwealth Bank had a resolution about like, whether they should divest from fossil fuels. And then I think, and then Blackrock voted no. So they're saying they want to invest in climate tech, but then they're letting I mean, maybe maybe that is the scam though, because like, all the climate tech they're investing in is just fixed the problem. And so if it gets worse and worse, the tech becomes more valuable.

Lewis Hobba  11:39  
Are you suggesting that these financial investors are serious about like, they're actually more interested in money? A group called who voluntarily called themselves BlackRock, BlackRock, viously, evil villain organization.

Dan Ilic  11:53  
Yeah. Named after their father Cole.

Vidya Rajan  11:58  
This kind of like, I'm like, Why do all these organizations like call themselves these cartoon villain names? It's like calling yourself like Mordor stone or something like that. And Enron, like, sounded like a robot that wanted to kill you. Like, it's all in the name?

Lewis Hobba  12:13  
Like, yeah, give yourself a nice name like Facebook, and then you never do anything.

Vidya Rajan  12:17  
Then you fool people for longer. And by the time you've done it, you're like, your mom's on there.

Lewis Hobba  12:26  
I'll be buried. Has there been any climate unicorns at all? Has there been one? Surely not, right. I can't think of one.

Dan Ilic  12:35  
And they're all

Lewis Hobba  12:37  
like webs. They're all just websites. It's all just like, yeah, can burn. Like, there are all these people that just like, do it like making apps that kind of exist in like Microsoft Office and then putting them on the internet?

Dan Ilic  12:49  
Yeah, it is totally. It's suddenly be able to scale right across the world, you know, in a matter of months. That's That's

Lewis Hobba  12:57  
correct. KeepCup. They made a billion dollars.

Gabbi Bolt  13:00  
They have a billion dollars. Have you seen how

Dan Ilic  13:03  
Tesla is close? I

Vidya Rajan  13:05  
think there's literally a website. That's like climate tech unicorns.

Lewis Hobba  13:11  
And how many are there?

Vidya Rajan  13:13  
Now? Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. There's quite a few. Too many people have a billion dollars, I guess. You know.

Lewis Hobba  13:22  
Why didn't you ask for a billion dollars for your fundraising campaign? You could have been a unicorn.

Dan Ilic  13:28  
I asked for a million and you got 20% It's very disappointing.

Lewis Hobba  13:32  
The bad boy of Bilbo Chase failed a bad billionaire of Bill Bowles. That's Daniel.

Unknown Speaker  13:40  
Is Treasury ever done any modeling on the economic costs or benefits of net zero? I don't think so. In the period immediately before that we had done cleaning quantum change modeling. I don't know whether it's for us, but we haven't done it. A rational fear.

Dan Ilic  13:55  
This week's third fear Chris Evans is set to start in the prequel of Pixar Toy Story. This proving it's best to never have childhood memories so they can never be destroyed. The mangas is this prequel necessary? Do we really need it? Gabby?

Gabbi Bolt  14:09  
Here's the thing about this prequel. It's called Lightyear. Right. And from that you think it's about the Buzz Lightyear we all know and love. But I think this is actually the first time we see a prequel outlining the reason for a fake merchandise pitch in an alternate universe. It's the story of a fake man who inspires the fake toy company who inspires the fake toy version of the same fake man. So it's not actually the story of the toy. I want to reiterate that it's the story of the actual astronaut Buzz Lightyear who at some point in his life, gets a toy deal. Wow. It's kind of like if we made a movie about I don't know, a Barbie. And then we made a movie about the person who inspired the Barbie, the woman who couldn't stand

Vidya Rajan  14:53  
up straight because

Gabbi Bolt  14:56  
and somebody said there's a doll in this

Lewis Hobba  14:58  
barber Millicent Wallace.

Gabbi Bolt  15:01  
So it was, yeah.

Dan Ilic  15:03  
Good work. Does she have a feature film about her Louis

Lewis Hobba  15:07  
soon? Not to my knowledge, but I'm sure it's on the way you need to pitch that.

Vidya Rajan  15:10  
Quick. I was

Gabbi Bolt  15:12  
thinking based on based on this story coming out this there's tons of prequels we can make now, like, all right, the fact that they need to be continuous with the original plot, irrelevant. Now we can make a prequel to Bug's Life and call it love actually, and all you see for 90 minutes is just like goo and stuff. It's conceptual. You know, you can make an origin story for legendary walking advertisement himself, Duff man, I want a tough man feature film from The Simpsons. That man has tales we don't know about. I also wouldn't mind an origin story specifically for the sleepy dwarf because why is he so sleepy all the time?

Dan Ilic  15:48  
I've got some other pretty close police academy, police after school academy who needs help with maths? Yes. Yeah. Three Men and a zygote? It's Tom Selleck, Tom Selleck, without a mustache and Beverly Hills mop. Eddie Murphy plays a janitor going to do one last cleanup in aisle seven before retiring.

Gabbi Bolt  16:07  
I also wouldn't mind a Furby horror film and I was gonna write that one down, but then I realized that a Furby horror film is literally just gremlins. It's just the plot of glare of Gremlins

Vidya Rajan  16:16  
Disney's just cannibalizing itself like that snake the aura Boris. But, yes,

Lewis Hobba  16:24  
now that's a show. Now it's human centipede, but snake.

Gabbi Bolt  16:27  
That's actually the sequel to A Bug's Life. Yeah, I'm pretty cool all day. Actually. We have the sequel.

Lewis Hobba  16:33  
The other thing was a lot. He has gotten harder. Yeah, in the transition. I weirdly from George Clooney. Well taught us man to Chris Evans. Also hot man. The animation has gotten a little harder.

Gabbi Bolt  16:45  
Yeah, just when you think Tim Allen couldn't be any sexier. Yeah, Jim Allen

Dan Ilic  16:49  
was the original Buzz Lightyear

Lewis Hobba  16:51  
Alan, why don't you Yeah. Well, cuz he

Gabbi Bolt  16:54  
thought he was hot. Easy mistake. Easy.

Lewis Hobba  16:57  
Elon was Buzz Lightyear, I guess. Yeah. I didn't really watch movies growing up. So I have a lot of gaps in my knowledge. I just assume everything is George Clooney.

Unknown Speaker  17:09  
is one of those people you just spoke about who writes horrible things online? abusing his own constituents taking

Dan Ilic  17:14  
photographs of people women's underwear in public? Can you see that people see a double standard here a rational fear. Graham Redfin is a longtime climate environment reporter and his current employer has put that knowledge to good use. Together with Adam more than the environment editor at The Guardian Graham has made a new podcast series called Australia versus the climate which is a blow by blow reporting of how we got into this mess in the first place. He joins us now welcome Graham Redfern.

Graham Readfearn  17:42  
Hey, Dan, how are ya $226,000 though, you're gonna need some kind of blind trust to money, amount of cash.

Dan Ilic  17:53  
Well, people want me to people want me to continue the thing and I'm like, I don't want to continue. I don't want to keep raising money and asking people for money. But maybe I will start a blind trust when the election gets called. And if people want us to make electric election content, they can pay into the into the blind trust we'll call it porters blind trust, Proprietary Limited. It's good. We're gonna spend the money on good stuff we're going to spend the money on not any billboards, but we're going to pay for more video content. We've got a great stunt idea. And yeah, we will also be able to pay for everyone who comes on the podcast for next year, which is great. So you know except for your grand we're not paying for you

Graham Readfearn  18:28  
know, I love how you took my flippin opening remark as a as a excuse to give me an actual answer to the question.

Gabbi Bolt  18:36  
We don't know anything about that in this country.

Lewis Hobba  18:38  
Just off the top. Every time we speak to someone who works full full time in in climate, either policy or activism in Australia. The first question I always want to know is like how are you?

Graham Readfearn  18:53  
Yeah, I'm very tired. Especially after this week. I'm just generally tired and being honest being on this podcast with all you youthful. I mean, how do you do it? That's what I want to know cuz I'm done. I mean, maybe it's just the years I'm you know, I'm middle aged. Why tired? Uh, yeah. I've been doing this for almost 20 years now almost like on climate. Yeah, it's, I think you got to you got to put the time in. You got to put the time in because it's it's a really it is a really it's it's massively politicized and there's all sorts of misinformation there's a lot of denial. There's a lot of there's a lot of ways that that readers can get misinformed by this sort of stuff. And I think you need to spend a bit of time with the information before you as a journal before you can really feel you're not going to accidentally mislead your, your readers. You know,

Dan Ilic  19:47  
it is really interesting listening to the podcast is so gripping and so intriguing. It is a real great primer for the cop 2016 Coming up, if you want to know everything that went wrong with Australian climate policy, spend four hours listening to this podcast and you will be up to speed. Putting it together. Graham, did you have to? Were you surprised at the kind of research you you found even though you've been kind of in this space for 1520 years?

Graham Readfearn  20:19  
Oh, we find out a lot. And yeah, I mean, we've got four hours of broadcast material and about 35 hours not broadcasted. We we start our started three months ago. And I mean, I know I know some of the stories, but you kind of you got to start somewhere. So we start at the beginning, we're starting, you know, in the mid 90s. What is the Howard Government doing around climate change? We've got the Kyoto meeting coming up, what do the cabinet papers say about what Australia's position is, and then we find the people that were around at the time, and we look at the participant lists of the UN f triple C participant list for the Kyoto meeting, and we kind of got out, let's speak to that guy. Let's speak to that person, and we just start ringing them up. And so we couple of really valuable interviews was a guy called Roger Bill, who was the head of so the environment department in the Howard era, who helped to sort of write this thing called the Australia clause, which, as Clive Hamilton tells us in the podcast, if you don't know about the Australia clause, please don't get me to explain it. If you don't know what the Australia quote is, I will explain it. But if you don't know what it is, and you don't know anything about climate policy, and you can't, because it's it's the thing, that means when you hear Morrison and Angus Taylor, in the last few days, say we meet and be RTL targets, you know, the reason he can say that is because of what Australia did in Kyoto in 1997. So we kind of start there. And we go all the way through from Kyoto to the other big meetings like the failure of Copenhagen.

Dan Ilic  21:54  
How did you get that guy? How did you get bail to talk like, because when he speaks in your podcast, his deed sounds almost proud of the diplomacy he did. And like, he was like, some kind of returning services person coming back from war, like he was kind of proud of the stuff he did, but in effect, it's kind of ruined everything. Well,

Graham Readfearn  22:15  
it's not it's not my it, my job is to find the people that were in the room and ask them the questions that you would want to ask them and let them answer. And when that gets pulled out across four or five hours of a podcast, and it's got context around it, it becomes I think, really, really powerful. He's he was a long serving public servant. And he retired, I think, maybe eight or nine years ago, now, maybe a little bit longer. I'll find out where it was. He's an artist in Canberra and and rang him up.

Dan Ilic  22:48  
That's amazing. That's amazing. And you've also got other folks in there, like head of Greenpeace at the time, and, and you also got Kevin Rudd on, it was really interesting to listen to Kevin Rudd pretend that he was trying to solve climate change. In episode two, when it came to Paris, it's fascinating when Kevin Rudd is talking about sorry, Copenhagen, here and trying to get all the countries to kind of come to a deal in Copenhagen and Kevin Rudd paints himself as this as his Savior to do that. But it's also at the same time when you listen to Ben Rhodes his book, and you listen to Obama's book, Obama and Ben Rhodes also paint Barack Obama as the savior of Yerevan. But ultimately, these two or three big egos kind of going trying to save this world agreement made the whole agreement fall apart.

Graham Readfearn  23:35  
Yeah, the root story is remarkable, if only to hear Kevin Rudd attempt to corral the entire planet Earth in a room, which he said, was not big enough to swing a cat. The thing about the Copenhagen episode was that the this was a period where where Australia was in a position where it was it wanted to do stuff and what whatever you think about Kevin Rudd, and Penny Wong, who was also featured in the podcast, whatever you think about those people, they they did work really hard in Copenhagen, it didn't work. It's ironic really, that at the one time when the Australian government seemed really motivated to get a deal is the time when the rest of the world just can't, can't pull their finger out. We wrote We spoke to a guy called Andrew Higham, who's an Australian guy who went off to Europe and to work for the United Nations to actually write these, these deals, these protocols these agreements, and, and he, he said to us on it. When I got there, the first thing I was working on was Copenhagen, and it was it was six months away, but he said it was never going to be a deal. It was a mirage. He called it a mirage.

Dan Ilic  24:50  
Wow. Oh god,

Lewis Hobba  24:51  
that's nice. Yeah. Any prophecies on on Glasgow then?

Graham Readfearn  24:56  
Any? Well, while we've been talking about We have the the official press release from at this No joke, the official press release from Angus Taylor his office. It says it says Angus Taylor will attend the opening week of cop 26 to promote Australia as a safe and reliable destination for investment in filling the gaps for investment. Gas, hydrogen and new energy technologies. So what Well, the thing about so Morrison's going to Glasgow, and he's not going with a front loaded 2030 target. He's just going with some projections, even even the projections are way below the kind of 2030 targets that the United States have got the Europe's got that the UK has got. So all I guess he can hope for is to come away unscathed. It will not though I don't think it's going to be a meeting that will deliver us anything that will get us close to what the Paris deal says, which is well below two degrees. There's still a massive gap, the UN released a report when it added up all the pledges that the different countries have put in. And he said, Well, you know, they're still way over two degrees. So it's going to be it's going to be very difficult. But you got to you got to you got to put the effort in you down. And I've just remembered by the way, there was a scene in Paris in the in the podcast. Yeah. When it's the only it's the only light comedian. I shouldn't say this, because no one will listen. It's only like, comedic scene in the whole in the whole of the series. But it's when it's when the Paris deal gets struck. And I go out to a nightclub in the evening, where I meet Dan Ilic. But I also I also get to dance with the with Christiana for Guerrero, who was the president of the cop. We exchanged some some shapes that night. But that that episode is sort of that takes us to the high of Paris and then explains what happened in Australia and what happened to these protocols in the years that went that followed.

Dan Ilic  27:13  
Yeah, I love that episode, so much the way you laid that out for that car because it kind of laid out this interesting internal battle amongst Australian politicians, Angus Taylor, and and Bishop Julie Bishop, when they were kind of arguing over whether they should go for a two degree limit or a 1.5 degree limit. And Angus Taylor, of course, is hard right? faction is saying no, no, we're just gonna go for two degree limit. And then Julie Bishop grabbed the microphone and said, We're gonna go for 1.5 degrees and like committed Australia, almost unilaterally. I thought there was a real beautiful moment like, Oh, my God, that's so strange. Wow. We were almost like, you know, it feels like we're part of something usually doing something. Yeah. And then to see us kind of throw that away the weeks after Paris and go, Yeah, we're not gonna actually do anything about about Paris at all. It is it is such a roller coaster ride your podcast is amazing.

Graham Readfearn  28:05  
It's why we hired a true true crime. Audio producer from the ABC to actually fully sounds

Dan Ilic  28:12  
like it sounds like a true crime Podcast. I'm hooked every step of the way.

Graham Readfearn  28:17  
You've got it. It's got this there is drama. It's there. In amongst all the square brackets, and the and the hours and hours of sort of meaningless meetings. There is a there's high drama, these meetings are where the the power base of the world gathers. And I think the moment where we have Penny Wong remembering being in a room in Copenhagen, with Barack Obama, Angela Merkel, and she says to us, I never thought I'd be in a room like this. And what strikes her about it is that the people in this room could do anything that they wanted. They wanted to solve climate change right now. He could do it. And they didn't.

Dan Ilic  28:54  
And what are they? What are some Tyler? Oh,

Graham Readfearn  28:58  
yeah, yeah, sorry to spoil it for you. Yeah, I'm just catching up with the news from 2009. But yeah. But that those were the moments that we were really looking for, as well in the podcast to kind of get get get the details to prime people. So they know what happens at these meetings, because they are crucial, right? So get them to understand what happens at them, but also to sort of find the anecdotes that keep the drama going and keep the humanity in it. I mean, even even going back to Roger, Bill, Dan, who you mentioned, who was around in the Kyoto period. I mean, you know, he tells us when the meeting had finished, I went back to my hotel, had a bath, drank half a bottle of whiskey. I mean, it's unusual together public servants, sort of giving you that kind of detail. But

Gabbi Bolt  29:43  
yeah, I feel like Scott's approaching cop 26 The same way I approached any and all group projects that university which is just kind of like turn up I guess I'm being made to do whatever the other people tell me to do and then walk away and then fail because I didn't actually do anything. thing. But the difference is when I do that repeatedly, I get kicked out of university. And when he does it, it's fine. He gets

Graham Readfearn  30:10  
it, he gets to do it the Australian what he gets the Australian. And look can see just is, you know, if if I had a conceit AMITA it would have blown it up. Because that that was it's absolutely astonishing

Dan Ilic  30:25  
vigia, I often see your tweets on climate change. Would you ever want to go to a conference of parties? What would you do that?

Vidya Rajan  30:33  
Oh my god, um, I feel like I could only go if I was employed as a professional. I could live tweet the event. Like I think I'd like to do that. And just like subtweet everyone, they're walking around. Is that activism? Yeah. Yeah,

Lewis Hobba  30:51  
yeah,

Dan Ilic  30:52  
that's probably sounds simple. It sounds professional.

Vidya Rajan  30:55  
Yeah, like a large screen of the tweets to just appear after they've said some things that everyone can like, get your take immediately. It's just

Lewis Hobba  31:03  
so like, you'd be almost like doing gogglebox or something.

Vidya Rajan  31:06  
Yeah, or like making them into a moderating their performance. Yeah. What were you saying?

Dan Ilic  31:12  
I was gonna say, you could actually get that job vigia to work a defect, because that is essentially cop copies a giant Google doc screen in, in like, little in meetings, upon meetings upon meetings. And it's this giant Google doc screen that all the countries are trying to add to and subtract to to get to a final resolution. It's like that's why they spent two weeks like rough two weeks basically working in a group document.

Lewis Hobba  31:35  
It's so nice. You're here, Graham, because you're now the you now make to people in the history of the podcast that have been excited about the cop meetings. Yeah, but not the outcomes. But the actual meetings. Yeah, easily. Denzel Dan's eyes light up when he talks about a Google Doc. Yeah. Loves process.

Graham Readfearn  31:50  
Yeah, yeah. Well, if you like process, you'll love a cop. But the fun the fun part of the of the Copenhagen episode with with Rod was was how he basically did not run with the process at all, and was trying to run meetings after like through the middle of the night. And then there was there's this moment that he recalls, there's a there's a moment that he recalls when he when he's trying to run this meeting with like India and China and some other countries, I might have got the country's wrong. And the Danes, the Danish Prime Minister, who was chairing the meeting, sort of walks out in India and China are trying to get this whole process to slow down. So they're like looking at him going, oh, yeah, we can solve this now, because there's no chair. So Kevin Rudd says to us on the podcast, he says, Well, I said, Well, my good friend, the Danish Prime Minister has asked me if I will now chair this meeting on his behalf. And he hadn't asked him to do that at all, it was just really making it up, just to try and keep the thing going. So there's process and then there's making stuff up to try and keep the thing on the rails. It was a pretty that's another sort of really interesting moment.

Dan Ilic  32:58  
Graham, thank you so much for coming on. And telling us about this podcast is truly an incredible bit of work, having listened to all of it now. It's just it is, if you've never if you want to deeply understand the reason why we are where we are, you could definitely listen to this and you can have a good time listening to it, which is great. It's really entertaining. It's

Graham Readfearn  33:21  
it's a five part series. It's on the Guardians full story, podcast feed, each should have its own feed by next week. Please listen and share talk about it's also on Spotify, also on Google podcasts on the house, but it's with Adam Morton, lots of superstars and amazing audio production team.

Dan Ilic  33:38  
Is it going to be on Netflix? It sounds like a good.

Graham Readfearn  33:41  
Let's talk about it down. Let's make it happen.

Lewis Hobba  33:44  
We can Dan can fund it. He's got a lot of money. I mean, yeah,

Graham Readfearn  33:48  
you got 26 grand, you're just flying around.

Dan Ilic  33:52  
Yeah. I've already spent I've already spent $70,000. I'm gonna pay myself back first, because, well, I've got some bills to pay your debt. Before we go. Gabby bolt, you're going to see us out with a song.

Gabbi Bolt  34:08  
Yeah. Now that things are opening back up again, I'd like to just remind us all of the experience that may not be universally shared. In fact, this might be a bit of a nice joke. But I'm back where I'm originally from, which is, you know, the crazy, amazing enriching place of Bathurst. There's restaurants, lots of restaurants that you get dressed up for, and I made I miss restaurants, but more than restaurants. I miss the mysterious figure in the corner of most restaurants, and this is his story.

How many renditions of Matt Colbys brother will make you one To fuck me how many times will I have to say that this next song is for you? Yeah What are the chances that we'd be together in one place that this town employs well dressed Calvin Klein other boys to play

you don't know my name but that's okay to ask. I'll give you a fake. I don't know your name because I don't want to. You're in love lately because I try to be the embodiment of culture. But here is the big Gotcha. If you stripped me of my man bond my stone box in my suede hat on just the same as the next slide. So please don't take away my sixth string about some falsetto.

I will spend half of the evening playin strictly Ed Sheeran repertoire anyone like a bit of time arrives? Because if nothing else, white people request surreally Oh Lenny

I will tell you that I learned guitar purely from my waist to songs and snorting coke. You don't have to know how I went broke paying for a teacher 10 years and I still can't play a fuck barcode. I will see real chill until you get five bucks on my espadrilles you're lucky they weren't my RM Williams I have nailed the art of making easy some sound hard playing Riptide the Lila and a bit somehow I'll still draw the line at break like if you asked me for that song I swear I'll throw up in my mouth I can maybe swing US version of case but from this string come on consoles of course there is

as you guys know I'm self taught

what fucking Bob Dylan up here

what is no one see that I could be the next big since Jeff Buckley. There's a man who appreciated depth. Gonna be fucking famous and then you have to know what my name is. No more restaurant gigs where my art is bad. You will be fucking sorry when I

Lewis Hobba  38:19  
feel the punch line coming in.

Dan Ilic  38:22  
It was well done. Fantastic. That reminds me my favorite Justin Hazelwood joke and he does this thing where you guys quick Jeff Buckley impression and he's like

Gabbi Bolt  38:35  
oh, they're brutal.

Dan Ilic  38:36  
Terrible, terrible. That is that is it for irrational fear. Big thank you to geballe vigia Rajon gray and red fin. Louis Hobart. Do you guys have anything to plug?

Vidya Rajan  38:45  
Yeah, I guess if you're in Sydney, you can now buy tickets for looking for Alibrandi at Belvoir, which I adopted.

Dan Ilic  38:56  
Yes, I would definitely go sit

Vidya Rajan  39:00  
next year and it's also coming to Melbourne but those tickets are on sale at the Sydney tickets are on sale.

Lewis Hobba  39:06  
Yeah, I'm told what can you give us?

Vidya Rajan  39:09  
I'm sure once allowed.

Dan Ilic  39:10  
What was it like to work with Marlena Makita I mean, it was pretty hands

Vidya Rajan  39:14  
off. But she wrote me a really lovely letter like um, yeah, it was great. She liked she liked a good time.

Dan Ilic  39:23  
I had my I had my motion picture debut in Yeah, in in heresay day if you remembered how sad Yes, people doing talks. There's a full shot, a full frame shot of me clapping going in my skull.

Lewis Hobba  39:42  
And occasionally, Danna brandy.

Vidya Rajan  39:46  
Yeah, that was all done. I'll try and put that in. I

Gabbi Bolt  39:52  
enter stage.

Vidya Rajan  39:56  
Yeah, like that. Like that. Like someone walks on like you

Dan Ilic  40:01  
Speaking of sequels we don't need that's great, Vijay. Congratulations, Gabby. Do you want to plug anything?

Gabbi Bolt  40:08  
Yeah, I have a comedy show. Finally, in Sydney from the 16th to the 18th of December. It's called I hope my keyboard doesn't break and I've accidentally Macbeth myself with the title because now that I've called it that I have a feeling everything will break i a microphone today. So yeah, tickets are on sale for that through laugh at a lockdown.com.au. And also, yeah, because of the Moosehead award. I'll be taking that same shirt and Melbourne Comedy Festival.

Dan Ilic  40:32  
Yes. Me picking up. Done.

Gabbi Bolt  40:35  
Thank you, Lewis.

Dan Ilic  40:37  
How about you anything like

Lewis Hobba  40:38  
peace and love? You know that our friendship Graham.

Graham Readfearn  40:42  
I've done this podcast and that's called Australia. It's on the full story podcast feed on the guardian. I also write a weekly column for The Guardian called temperature check where I do fact checks on climate stuff that silly people saying sometimes not silly people say so I do a bit of that. But please, everybody read The Guardian. It's great. It's free to

Dan Ilic  41:02  
big thank you to the birther foundation rode mics Jacob round on the Tepanyaki timeline. Big thanks to everyone in our Discord big, big thank you to everyone who chipped in to Joe keeper. We're going to be having some fun with that over the next six months. So thank you so much. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Oh, next week. The next sick episode two of Julie's MIROS asked who cares is coming out. So we'll be kind of grilling me taking a break next week. But Jay Z will take care of you next week. So thank you very much. We'll see you next time. Bye. Oh,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Joining us on A Rational Fear this week are fearmongers:

Harry Jun  (One Of The Good Ones)
Alex Jae (Laugh Out Of Lockdown)
Dylan Behan
and Dan Ilic

We talk about Billboards, Australia being a bad actor on the world stage, meddling with the IPCC reports, prosthetic limbs to be used for COVD19 injections, Squid Game in China, and Donald Trump's new social media platform.

PATREON 💸:

If you enjoy our podcast, emails and important climate change conversations, chip in here:  www.patreon.com/arationalfear

Dan Ilic  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Good evening not Louis Dylan good eye Dylan

Dylan Behan  0:07  
where's where's Louis at? Is he at one of those triple Triple J parties hanging out with Amy shark is he's too well, we got to make her we got to be at the comedy coalface while he's off partying. You said that last week? Yeah,

Dan Ilic  0:19  
that's what he's that's what he's doing this week. He's offered parties because he's got the week. He's actually holding holidays probably with Amy shark. His girlfriend Amy shark.

Dylan Behan  0:30  
Puppy not giving him paid leave is doesn't deserve it.

Dan Ilic  0:34  
He is away on leave this week, but it's okay. We've got home Brian Lewis. That is Dylan Bane. Welcome Dylan Bane.

Dylan Behan  0:40  
Yes, normally hobo Paul Shaffer an irrational fear today I'm hobo Louis harbor.

Dan Ilic  0:44  
How about Louis, how about well, man, I've had an absolutely massive week in the out of home buying billboard media. We're talking about it a little bit later on. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and the ordination. sovereignty was never stated. We did a trade eight Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  0:59  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro. Gum, and section bought you a rational view recommended listening by emerge your audience.

Dan Ilic  1:12  
Tonight New Zealand's official wizard lost his job turns out he got fired after developing a few bad habits and invited me Joyce and system nationals won't be pressured into backing and net zero target by 2050. Saying Nobody puts us man babies in the corner. And with Halloween just around the corner. party goers wishing to dress up as Matt Canavan urged to not go in cold face. It's the 21st of October, and we've committed net zero billboards by 2030. This is irrational fear.

Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former editor of The Sydney Morning Herald Daniel and this is the show that fights fire with fire which turns out to make things a whole lot worse. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. Our first guest is one half of the ladies guide to dude cinema podcast. Timeout magazine calls her self deprecating and irresistibly likeable. Well let's say that it's Alex Jay.

Alex Jae  2:18  
Hello, I suck but I'm really nice. They go Oh, well, it's so good.

Dan Ilic  2:24  
After 100 over 100 days of trying to quell his students in zoom meetings are next fear monger has battled his way back into face to face combat in the real life classroom of life. It is comedian and teacher harijan

Harry Jun  2:37  
hey, yeah, and I'm coming out swinging detentions for everybody.

Dan Ilic  2:42  
What are you doing to prepare to code go back to the classroom Perry?

Harry Jun  2:45  
Oh, lots of drinking. But that's pre class.

Dan Ilic  2:47  
I think that's an idea of what I'm looking

Harry Jun  2:51  
forward to is going face to face with the kids that have been mucking around over zoom. Just like you know, they just like being at the zoo and poking a tiger and not realizing that the zookeepers gonna stroll in and open the cage so

Dan Ilic  3:03  
let's say and he's the king of where he clips and home brand Louis harbor. It's Dylan Bay and you know get a coming up. We're gonna be asking Alfa among us, what will it take for them to join Trump's new social media network? But first here is a message from this week's sponsor.

Rupert Degas  3:21  
You live in a fast changing world. Today's Attorney General is tomorrow's backbencher. accountability is something that can only exist if you can see something to count. When you need a sense of mystery for your big pot of money, put your blind faith in orders blind trust, because whoever is paying off a public person's legal bills should remain private, at least until after the next election. borders blind trust is sort

Unknown Speaker  3:49  
of program should keep going in Australia essentially

Unknown Speaker  3:52  
forever.

Rupert Degas  3:53  
terms or conditions don't apply. If you're a member of the Liberal government. Check the PDS for details. No really, please check because I couldn't find any detail when I love.

Dan Ilic  4:03  
Hey, guys, in this week's first few it has been quite awake. Last week, we spoke about what would happen in New York City when we put up billboards. And I'd actually didn't believe it would happen. I don't know if you saw it at 945. A whole bunch of billboards went up in New York City shaming the Australian government action on lack of action on climate change. We did that there was all of us. So thank you very much for chipping in to make that happen. It's kind like a space launch. Like you just do a countdown to 945 and just kind of hope that it appeared on the webcam. It was a really exciting period.

Alex Jae  4:40  
It's just crazy. Congratulations. That's amazing.

Harry Jun  4:43  
You must be so stoked.

Dylan Behan  4:46  
Also, congratulations for getting every Ozzie I know in New York together in one place to look at my social media was full of it. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  4:55  
Did you see a lot of Australians like in on social media Yeah.

Dylan Behan  5:00  
Ron, I know he lives in New York all my friends were down there. Admittedly, they're all TV people who probably know you too. But, but yeah, my feed was full of amazing footage from Times Square. It looked incredible.

Dan Ilic  5:10  
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It's so good. It's so good. And now my friend Russell Crowe tweeted and said, I should get on Jake Tapper saying Jake Tapper, his producer reached out. It's like, Hey, you want to go on the show? And right? Yeah, show us thanks, Russell.

Dylan Behan  5:32  
Don't forget Studio 10 dan, that was an even bigger privilege and I'm sure yeah, that's

Dan Ilic  5:37  
it last Monday. Yeah, they had me on and then you know, by Ryan was hosting and he's obviously a big climate denier. It was really funny experience. Like it was really funny spirits calling like God calling into the studio 10 of his own. And all the technical directors and the producers were like, Oh, hey, Dan. It's great to have you on it's such an amazing thing that happened. Oh my god, that was incredible. It's so good to have you. And then it's like how Aidan Yes, it's the technical director here just incredible effort in new and senior mana. And then like by ride is like, yeah, mate. But if we're gonna if we're if they're gonna buy a call, we're gonna sell it. How come you're not in China doing it? Right? How can India testing on you in India and China protesting about it might well, yeah, and see, you don't say people in China protesting do yeah. And there's a good reason for that.

Harry Jun  6:37  
You could generate so much electricity just from the wind that just the wash that went over his head?

Dan Ilic  6:43  
Oh, man, it was wild. And yeah, it was just one of those weird things where it was two guys who weigh out of their depths on the issue. Anyway, it was great. Anyway, billboards aside, this is a reason why we did it to shame the Australian Government into action. And 945. At that point, Scott Morrison wasn't going to go to Glasgow by 245. He put out an announcement saying, Yes, he was going to Glasgow. Let's have a quick listen to that.

Unknown Speaker  7:11  
first of those is overnight, I confirmed my attendance at the Glasgow summit, which I'm looking forward to attending. It's an important event.

Dan Ilic  7:19  
Now that's bullshit, he would have confirmed that 1055 All right. Well, the reason why we put out these billboards was to kind of shame the Australian Government and the lack of climate action. And there was this incredible article that came out today to say that senior government officials and lobbyists have been in the IPCC trying to change the way language is written in the agreement, or, or, or references in the IPCC final text. A senior government official rejected, largely the uncontroversial conclusion that most important steps to reduce greenhouse gas was to phase out coal fired power. The Australia also asked the IPCC scientists to delete a reference to analysis of the role played by fossil fuel lobbyists and watering down climate action. And then this is a lovely bit of language that said Australian officials tried to water down language around the Green Climate funds, which is a gigantic fund where poor nations take money out of to kind of mitigate the risk against against you know, climate disasters to say oh yeah, there's other ways you can mitigate you don't need a fund to mitigate Oh my god, this is crazy. This is this is like evil villain shit going on right here and it doesn't surprise you at all that Australia is doing this fear mongers.

Harry Jun  8:33  
No Look, do you know what it reminds me of when I was in uni and I had a group assignment with one other dude. And it was a 6000 word essay and I wrote the whole fucking thing. And then the night before he comes in is like all I've got a couple additions and I want to I want you to edit and delete some stuff. It's like, you weren't here the entire time. What he told me they can't take credit for this. You started a bit, James, I hope you're listening. I fucking hate you, man.

Alex Jae  8:59  
James, fuck you.

Dan Ilic  9:02  
James dad just did just James didn't work. A defect is that way.

Dylan Behan  9:07  
So Australia is basically trying to walk water down the memo of the conference or just the conference. Generally,

Dan Ilic  9:14  
there are a few bad actors. So Saudi Arabia, yeah, Australia and Japan. They're the three major companies that are trying to throw lobbyists at the situation.

Dylan Behan  9:22  
Have they done this at other conferences? Does Australia turn up at like the anti child trafficking conference? Can we have more child trafficking in this memorandum? Can we push like, what the

Alex Jae  9:34  
hell I'm not surprised that we're downplaying this at all because I think being like downplaying things is in Australia's blood. Like my dad is Australia, right? And his favorite thing is downplaying how much money he puts into the pokies to my mum, everything in our blood, do you know what I mean?

Dylan Behan  9:55  
It's not just those countries down I was reading the article and supposedly Argentina has taken offense at the word Meatless Monday

Harry Jun  10:05  
oh how it's alliteration guys

Dylan Behan  10:08  
know that what's next going to be gets Taco Tuesday

Alex Jae  10:11  
What? Never but that

Dan Ilic  10:13  
is funny Argentina the one of the world's biggest exporters of beef and the gauchos Do they have a Gaucho as president? Is that is that there is that their problem there?

Dylan Behan  10:24  
No idea what you're talking about. Listen

Alex Jae  10:28  
to me you take this one doing

Dylan Behan  10:32  
I know all I know is this steely? Dan album Gaucho.

Dan Ilic  10:36  
Gaucho is an Argentinian cowboy.

Harry Jun  10:39  
Oh, I thought you were saying gout like the medical condition show and I was like the amount of rot they've got there's probably a lot of gaps

Alex Jae  10:47  
in your reality TV Yeah.

Harry Jun  10:49  
Yeah, sure. That sounds sick. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  10:52  
Yeah, after a glass of red wine I also have a Gaucho it's not pleasant, irrational fear.

Unknown Speaker  10:57  
Russia, India and China accounted for 40% of global emissions. Do you think there'll be similar people in your position in those nations or the EU? You know, maybe for those nations a rational fear

Dan Ilic  11:09  
this way second fear. The fidgets spinners prosthetic arms are all the rage on a Facebook group called Victoria sell your stuff? Matt posted this ad prosthetic arm left or right using this for COVID vaccinations best water under a winter jacket to disguise your good arm available in various skin colors registered express delivery what is going on here is there now an arms race amongst anti vaxxers

Harry Jun  11:36  
gerawan I I looked at the prize very curious 15 out of box like that's pretty much money yeah, and you know we say like when things are expensive it costs an arm and a leg but now I know exactly how much

Alex Jae  11:53  
I reckon was having or whatever that guy's name is Roger or whatever for a Melbourne I think he's just I can just someone just like super overestimated how many people will suddenly want to like experiment with rubber fists during lockdown? Yeah, he's got like, he's got a huge surplus of everything.

Dylan Behan  12:11  
What if it does turn into an arms race? What if so many people antivaxxers were prosthetic arms that then everyone has to get the injections in that bomb? And then what if everyone was like bombs? That's just we're all just it's just going to turn into Dirk diggler territory. Basically.

Dan Ilic  12:26  
It's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. I love this. This is actually from mentone educational.com.au. They're a Melbourne based company. You can actually buy this if you work in a hospital training facility. And here's that here's the description. the realism of this advanced Veni puncture and injection is truly amazing. The soft flexible fingers are molded separately with extreme attention paid to every detail right down to the fingerprints. Flexi on of the wrist helps students maintain manipulation skills. They're replaceable skin rolls is the veins of palpated and discernible pop is felt when entering the veins well

Alex Jae  13:07  
my second theory absolutely stands that is a product restriction for a rabid fist have ever seen one and I've seen many obviously

Dan Ilic  13:16  
it says under normal use hundreds and hundreds of injections may be performed before the veins or skin need to be replaced complete replacement kits are available is used and a five year warranty This is great news for junkies

Harry Jun  13:28  
yeah yeah you got to get the practice in it's about you know refining the chops get that aim up I can't believe I what I really liked was he stressed that it's available in various skin colors like when we're fighting for diversity and representation I'm not sure this is exactly what we were looking for all the different skins are

Alex Jae  13:51  
frontline

Dan Ilic  13:52  
Yeah, I really enjoyed that too. was what is right it says like the initial description is um beige also available in dark skin

Alex Jae  14:05  
I live like somewhere on the ad it says like like recommended that you wear like a long winter jacket to like hide it from the nurse and I can't remember the last time I got an injection through a jacket.

Harry Jun  14:18  
Yeah. hold you down and

Alex Jae  14:24  
eventually bloody cashmere is killing

Dan Ilic  14:28  
the ad said the headset to do that to to hide your good arm. Why are you hiding a good arm? Should we die?

Harry Jun  14:36  
Do you know what would have been a better than they should have sold? Like a really oversized coat and then a full mannequin that sits on top of your shoulder like this? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's more effective.

Dan Ilic  14:50  
You took about two little kids on top of it. Yeah. And the one below is the one that's already got the vaccines. There's also a bit of a story going around about on on Instagram there are these fake digital vaccine certificates that can be loaded onto your digital wallet that have been advertised on Instagram, from a cut from a company called fake card au. This sounds like a pretty good racket like for a 10 year old who knows how to use Photoshop? Is this what the new is the new idea to get into the bar is it

Harry Jun  15:27  
just I was so disappointed in the preview of the on the actual ad it look like it was done in Microsoft Paint or even the Instagram story tool? Yeah, I couldn't have done that you're trying to sell a product, but make it look good.

Alex Jae  15:42  
It's just got like stickers on it. Instagram font to

Harry Jun  15:47  
handle like

Dylan Behan  15:51  
hard to believe Instagram, promoting something unhealthy.

Alex Jae  15:59  
body image issues come from. I just like to say Nice try, because that has nothing on the forgery I used to do with my mom's signature in your tend to get off. So classy. Yeah, I've got some notes. Yeah.

Harry Jun  16:16  
Did you ever do that? I would get a pen that was a bit out of ink. And then like kind of like scratch a bit, gentlemen, like, genius. It's about the little embellishments that Yeah,

Alex Jae  16:29  
make it authentic

Dan Ilic  16:30  
hesitate. Do you say your fair share of forged signatures?

Harry Jun  16:34  
Honestly, I reckon I've approved 99% of the four signatures like Jonah, I don't even share

Alex Jae  16:44  
a fallible system.

Harry Jun  16:45  
I mean, the whole point is you have to see the first actual authentic parents signature to be like, that's what it looks like. But we're taught I teach like 200 kids a year, whatever. I'm not going to be going back to my file, like Oh, the L is a bit curlier than normal. Now going on the Easter show, mate,

Dan Ilic  17:01  
Mr. Johnson, I have some queries about your signature that was developed over the last three years. Exactly. A friend

Dylan Behan  17:07  
of mine in school, learned to forge the teacher's signature perfectly, and then would add in his sick notes with the teacher signature. And the teacher would never know.

Harry Jun  17:19  
Yeah, that's a step beyond Yes. So Instagram, whoever's making those certificates, you got to step it

Dan Ilic  17:24  
up, and that man now is Christian quarter.

Dylan Behan  17:30  
Allegedly,

Unknown Speaker  17:32  
allegedly. When the Prime Minister arrives in Glasgow in a fortnight's time, will he tell the meeting electric vehicles within the weekend? batteries to store renewable energy are as useful as the big banana and the big prawn. And renewable energy targets are nuts. It's just simply not many eyes on

Unknown Speaker  17:53  
my left morphia is rational this week's

Dan Ilic  17:55  
30 year Netflix grid game is a hit in China but here's the problem Netflix is banned in China How the hell is Netflix taking off in China Harry john I just

Harry Jun  18:09  
love I love the fact that a show that's so transparent about criticizing capitalism is just hit the biggest business booming in China and they're like oh my God, we hate capitalism but let's fuckin make some money boys like fired up. And I feel like I did read the article it said that the government's really upset that people were you know, circling around their little firewall there and they're trying to take some kind of action against that piracy and I can think of one really entertaining way they could do that. Like just you know, rally them all up in a room that's it like and the reward can be a lifelong subscription to any VPN of your choice like

Dan Ilic  18:55  
I you saying that China's already doing this in shinjang province

Harry Jun  19:02  
Come on. Yeah, they know this shit.

Dan Ilic  19:04  
I think it's so funny because the article goes on to say that if it was actually legal in China it would be completely ripped apart by sensors Yeah, since the sensors like strip screwed game have any meaning whatsoever. Yeah.

Alex Jae  19:22  
It's just a nice show about friendship. Really? Yeah,

Harry Jun  19:25  
models they play marbles and then he goes on a camp and as far

Alex Jae  19:29  
as I love has a lovely time. I have to say guys, I'm so sorry. This is really embarrassing, but I do I do know how China has been watching square game. What happened was, it was actually made China and I used to date for a while and I gave my Netflix love. Totally forgot and I'm so embarrassed

Harry Jun  19:49  
Alex. You know how? I know once

Alex Jae  19:54  
you move on, you just want to forget And anyway,

Dan Ilic  19:58  
you know how it is dating. billion people and then

Alex Jae  20:03  
like this admin you have to go through after it is too much too much

Dylan Behan  20:08  
I understand why it's popular in China though because all the characters are in debt right? This is the thing this is why they're all in the battle royale type thing. Well of course everyone in China is going to relate to this they've all lost all their money to this real estate company. evergrande

Dan Ilic  20:25  
Yeah, yeah, this is the list of the story of high highly good well to do Chinese people they're worried

Harry Jun  20:33  
that they'll think it's a documentary and it's well over

Alex Jae  20:38  
right in this

Dylan Behan  20:40  
I just named one of the main characters the boss character looking like Winnie the Pooh and then everyone

Dan Ilic  20:47  
and finally to say is that Donald Trump is set to launch his new social media network is called truth social fear mongers what is one feature you'd like to see on truth social.

Alex Jae  21:00  
I would like to see him just go full ball on truth social and just make it an only fans and I'm not proud to admit this but I would pay for that I would absolutely paid for that.

Dan Ilic  21:13  
But if it was, it was Trump it would be called only 10s

Dylan Behan  21:19  
Trump said one of the reasons he's setting up the social media platform is because the Taliban is all over Twitter so I think what he needs to do is get the Taliban on truth social

Dan Ilic  21:31  
media even though they've got a community they can move right over

Dylan Behan  21:34  
Yeah, but I did read that they're actually this is the first step he is going to be launching a subscription video on demand service so I reckon we get irrational fear on there What do you reckon

Dan Ilic  21:47  
this cuz we're being silenced. We're being silenced. I can tell you how we've been times you know, I tried to put a billboard in Times Square with the rational field logo on it and they said yes

Alex Jae  21:59  
cancel cancel culture is going to

Dan Ilic  22:03  
they said we could only do it for 10 minutes I said I wanted an hour

Alex Jae  22:07  
like we need more money like I don't have it I'm being silenced

Dan Ilic  22:11  
yeah that's that's how America works. I looked into the privacy terms and conditions and that the bottom there is a address Can you guess what town truth social is going to be based out of? Florida? Bay Palm Beach Florida. Nailed it. Yeah,

Alex Jae  22:32  
that's awesome. Everyone over 60 and no one under

Dan Ilic  22:38  
it is destined for just boom it's it's just it's there it's ready ready to go just move the demographic over.

Dylan Behan  22:44  
Well, given how good they are qR coding they'll be all over how to put this on their smartphones surely.

Dan Ilic  22:51  
That is it for rational fear this week. It's a short one, but a good one big thank you to Harry john, Alex J. and Dylan Bane. What would you like to plug

Dylan Behan  22:59  
news fighters or news fox news? news fighters, not fighters, some people. My podcast I was going to cover Christian Porter this week, but I don't want to get sued for defamation. So tune in. For all the latest on Melrose Melbourne's Freedom Day which is happening Friday tomorrow.

Dan Ilic  23:17  
Excellent. harried you don't like anything?

Harry Jun  23:19  
Yeah, I am doing a show a comedy show for FBI radio called the past notes, which is a school based comedy show where I interview guests sharing juicy stories about school and I've also got a stand up comedy show on the fourth, fifth and sixth of November. You can find all that if you look up Harry Jordan comedy, J un or get on all socials.

Dan Ilic  23:41  
Excellent and now how is that how's that that comedy show on FBI going he's got a pretty good pretty good convener yeah yeah

Harry Jun  23:48  
he's he's great he's pretty famous Russell Crowe knows him it's I'm hoping to get in exchange

Alex Jae  23:56  
or a blog or anything I Yes, I've got a podcast called the ladies guide to do cinema that I co host with back childhood we watch all the movies that do to have told us we have to see and I've also got a comedy shows coming out for the same festival Harry's in the life out of lockdown festival I'm on the 11th 12th and 13th of November with Daniel towns and Luke ag

Dan Ilic  24:16  
ah excellent painful on that one up anybody good Hey, and I want to plug something to please go to Apple podcasts and leave us a review we we had we had Joe Hildebrand on last week. We made fun of him to his face for half an hour but a lot of people who don't normally listen this podcast listened in and really complained about Would you like me to read what out because they faster faster, faster, faster, faster, faster, faster. When it gets to three star, the Hildebrand circle jerk. And then it goes to one Star News Corp paid comedy. You have Joe Teeth scrubber on your show. You're the teat of News Corp all caps, but also ergy Yeah, we say rude words, but we are live voting Corp shill rats. If I could vote, I would vote. News Corp rats mouth and you might get a good rating daddy Rupert spend money on you? Yeah, one star that was from a guy called Greg's penis.

Alex Jae  25:24  
That is a perfect one star review. I love that. It's nonsensical. It looks like there was a lot of quotation. Just beautiful.

Dan Ilic  25:32  
I mean, I'm pretty sure Greg's penis has already signed up to truth social so there's never gonna be logging on to go to Apple podcasts and give us a review. If you regularly listen this show we'd love to hear from you. And also a big thank you to all of our new Patreon supporters. We've got 15 more we lost five last week. I think Jeff caught it because of Joe said some some good turnover and abatement Sean g Russell Wyden Kerry James hiring a deal and Debbie Jeffrey Jody Fitzgerald, Mary joy Roy, Amber rubber D'Ambra, Karen advertsing, john sharp and Luanne Cotta, Michelle Dinah Fannie Fitch, Alex tight and Trudy council A big thanks to red Mike's and the birth of foundation and of course Jake brown on the tepanyaki timeline. Big thanks to you my fear mongers appreciate you joining us for irrational fear tonight.

Harry Jun  26:24  
Thanks for having us.

Dan Ilic  26:26  
Until next week, there's always something to be scared off.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

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This week's fearmongers: Dane Simpson, Angela Lavoipierre, Lewis Hobba, and Dan Ilic (me).

We talk about the ins and outs of out-of-home media buying in the USA, ICAC, anti-vaxers trying to claim segregation — and we spend a good 40 minutes trying to understand why News Corp is trying to save the world with the promotion of climate action, when they've been such a malignant force for successive governments implementing meaningful climate policy for so long. To help us break it down we speak with the Editor at Large at the Daily Telegraph — Joe Hildebrand.

This podcast episode is best described as … chaotic good.

Hope you enjoy, let us know what you think in an Apple Podcasts review.

Cheers

Dan Ilic
Senior Out-of-Home Media Buyer

PATREON 💸:

If you enjoy our podcast, emails and important climate change conversations, chip in here:  www.patreon.com/arationalfear

--------------------

Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.

Dan Ilic  0:04  
Good evening Lewis. How are you? I'm

Lewis Hobba  0:05  
really good, Dan. Yeah, great.

Dan Ilic  0:08  
Is there anything happening interesting happening in your world? You know, anything?

Lewis Hobba  0:11  
Well, I mean, I'm free. We're, we're afraid and we're day four into freedom. I'm sitting here right now in the Sydney suburb of Surry Hills, and air on all houses around me are parties. Now I don't know exactly how many people are there. I can't say for sure it's under 10. But it is it's, it's kicking off.

Dan Ilic  0:31  
Hang on a second. Is this why we're recording one hour earlier? So you can go to a party at

Lewis Hobba  0:36  
100% 100% dead. I've been in lockdown for 109 days and so have you if you think no, going out every night this week. You're an idiot.

Dan Ilic  0:47  
I'm dedicated to my audience. Man, I gotta get this podcast out. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the eora nation sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  0:57  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro COMM And section body or rational view recommended listening might emerge your audience.

Dan Ilic  1:10  
Tonight experts claim that news cops new green campaign is just manipulating its audience use cope says it's all part of their gaslit recovery. And Peter Dutton cancels a morning team for LGBT IQ. I defend stuff angering officials, we have too many events already done and explained, including a brunch for African gang awareness. And New South Wales has reached Freedom Day with its residents relishing the opportunity to start spreading COVID again, it's the 15th of October and we're going to Broadway baby this is irrational fear.

Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former premier of New South Wales Dan Ilic. And this is the show that laughs at doing it. You're doing your own research. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She is a woman who in her professional life has to deal with members of the public calling her just another clown from the ABC. But Joke's on her because in her private life, she's a trained clown. It's Angela huapi. Air. Hello, and

Unknown Speaker  2:18  
what a warm welcome

Dan Ilic  2:23  
to honk the horn or something What's going on?

Ange Lavoipierre  2:26  
I'm always honking the horn in my brain. And if you can't hear it, it's because you're not listening closely enough. Yeah, yeah, I'm Beloved. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  2:35  
And he is a proud military man who has made dad jokes. He's stuck in trade. I'd get into pull my finger if I could, but he's in Walker Walker. It's Dane Simpson. Hey,

Unknown Speaker  2:42  
I'm an untrained clown by the way so

Ange Lavoipierre  2:52  
much more dangerous.

Dan Ilic  2:54  
You don't need any accreditation to do this job. Let me tell you, Dane, what a great couple of years you've had you like get like skyrocketing up on the on the comedy charts in Australia.

Unknown Speaker  3:03  
Yeah, it's been crazy. I love it. I'm loving every part of it. Everybody's getting around having a mad laugh at some of the silliness of my family, particularly my dad. And also he thinks he's a superstar now because he's he said my jokes. And so he's always he comes to my shows and he always ends it with if you think that's funny, come and see the real thing and he's

Dan Ilic  3:32  
and he's a man for legal reasons, has nothing to do with his podcast is merely here as a guest every week. It's Louis helma.

Lewis Hobba  3:39  
Yes, it's me Lewis. How about the ghost that haunts irrational fear.

Dan Ilic  3:45  
Coming up, we speak cwis News. kobs most progressive Lieutenant Joe Hildebrand about just how he's rupert murdoch saving the planet. But first here is a message from this week's sponsor. This Sunday, it's the biggest decision in Australian climate politics history, bigger than starting the emissions trading scheme bigger than axing the emissions trading scheme bigger than implementing their renewable energy targets bigger than canceling the renewable energy targets bigger than creating the Department of climate change bigger than dismantling the Department of climate change bigger than starting a mining super profits tax they get an ending of mining super profits tax bigger than setting a sunset date for old coal plants bigger than trying to use taxes to keep those old coal plants alive you get in the High Court ruling any environment minister has a duty of care to Australia's children bigger than the environment Mr. Saying fuck you High Court I'll kill those children if I want to. Here's three new coal mines much, much much bigger, much much bigger than the size of the barrels the Nets get their pork in this Sunday, the National Party will gather to vote on whether or not to agree on. net zero by 2050. Like the rest of the fucking world will the National Party dare to do the bare fucking minimum for once? Or will they do whatever their mining donors want to help them stay in power for another 36 months and ruin the entire fucking planet for you? Every one for ever. This Sunday a decision bigger than Barnaby sperm count the national party room showdown a donation will buy your whole seat but you'll only need the edge. There ain't no party like a national party because the national parties don't adopt new policies. Really looking forward to Sunday though what are you guys ready You guys excited about Sunday? That is really funny.

Ange Lavoipierre  5:27  
As a journalist, I have been previewing this moment for the last 10 years of my career about to happen is about to happen is about to happen. So I'm really looking forward to finally being right.

Dan Ilic  5:41  
This week's first well this week's first view let's get stuck into it we made it a Broadway baby billboards I got to Time Square. Now to two weeks folks is a long time in podcasting last week we had a special edition of the podcast with Julie's amuro I don't think two weeks ago we were actually going to go to Broadway Louis Can you remember with what was happening two weeks ago I don't think we actually were talking about it absolutely

Lewis Hobba  6:04  
not. I couldn't even dream of going to Kmart on Broadway shopping center I was so far away from from Broadway and what because you and I talked about it after the podcast two weeks ago like we should get on Time Square and then you sent me a message today like we get we will never be able to afford that and I don't quite know how you have

Dan Ilic  6:24  
well it's been amazing because we have 1800 people chip in so much money now we've got about 150,000 in the Indiegogo and what's incredible is I reached out to a contact of from mine at fusion when I used to work in America and I said you guys know anyone Do you know anyone that buys ad space and in Times Square? And she said he sent me back his contact and this woman has done the most incredible deal guess how much it costs for an hour on the biggest billboard in Times Square anyone? grant

Lewis Hobba  6:57  
prices I love that

Unknown Speaker  6:59  
like you know if it was me, I'd be handing out flyers you know, like I'm still stuck in that age that that's what got me brah

Lewis Hobba  7:09  
How much does it cost to advertise on Darryl McGuire's clay shooting facility in walga

Unknown Speaker  7:17  
I bought my house for like a shilling you know right like it's crazy prices here welcome

Dan Ilic  7:24  
shilling That is great. What is that in metric?

Unknown Speaker  7:31  
I feel like I've got to do the math in my head you know when you're watching squid game and you need to do the math in your head how much the money they're making Yeah,

Dan Ilic  7:39  
on on squid game I really appreciate that when you type into Google How much is it? Yeah automatically feels 25 million won in in Australian dollars. Oh yeah, Google knows these questions are coming. Yeah, so it costs it costs for an hour $100,000 so I couldn't afford an hour also I'm like financing this out of my own tax money that I have saved and my own house deposit. So I'm hoping I'm just hoping the Indiegogo arrives in three weeks so it's what we've done is we've bought 10 minutes of of screen time doesn't make sense on square How did you like

Unknown Speaker  8:19  
you can't go to a supermarket and go now I just want one slice of bread like how'd you do 10 minutes This is crazy.

Dan Ilic  8:29  
It's exactly like that time because time on advertising is like a fruit shop the longer it like sits on the shelf it starts to go off so the prices go down and down and down and if you book like pretty if you want like a spot tomorrow it's cheaper than if you book like three months in advance

Unknown Speaker  8:43  
is here's what you don't know is my show didgeridoos he flashed up for one second and that cost me $1,000 It cost me a house cost me a walker Walker house

Lewis Hobba  8:54  
Oh my god you're selling a lot of tickets in New York

Dan Ilic  8:57  
how many shillings is that

Ange Lavoipierre  8:58  
the I feel like then once you've run down the piggy bank a bit you could move into subliminal advertising and just

Dan Ilic  9:06  
I should I should have done that. I should have done that anyway we've been getting some great press from all around the world. I was in the Daily Mail this week but my favorite stories from

Unknown Speaker  9:16  
you said I've been getting a great press and then you went on to say Daily Mail which is

Dan Ilic  9:24  
well I was so excited because in the in the title for the Daily Mail actually use my name they said Dan Ilic did this usually they just say some bloke did this going up I've like gone up a level

Ange Lavoipierre  9:34  
you also got promoted to being controversial comedian, I noticed

Dan Ilic  9:39  
is nothing more controversial than buying out of Home media space. That is that is very controversial. You know, no one's doing billboards anymore. Yeah, my favorite bit of press though came from pod save the world. We're on pod save the world this week. I'll play the clip and yes, there's a Obama's White House. Ben Rhodes and I will extremely good friends. As you can tell, by the way he pronounces my name.

Unknown Speaker  10:03  
I got this buddy in Australia is going to Dan Ilic. Forgive me, Dan if I if I just butchered your last name, but Dan's a hilarious guy, and he hosts a podcast called rational fear where we got. So he reached out to me after one of our Australia said, No, no, he's the guy that put the plaque near the McDonald's, where Scott Morrison, the prime minister was alleged to have, you know, shot himself. And so he said, the latest thing that a bunch of Australians have done and I think there's overlapping circles with Australian world owes is they started like this kind of crowdfunded effort to just take out billboards in like places like Times Square, just like whacking Scott Morrison for his climate record, or like at a Glasgow in you know, just internationally pressuring the guy. So it's like that this has evolved from the plaque at the McDonald's to like a billboard in Times Square. It's it's a good thru line. What's your buddy's name again? Dan? I like okay, Dan.

Unknown Speaker  11:02  
We're doing this in real time. We're building the coalition Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  11:08  
Very positive the world view of the world I would be thrilled to work with him. Yeah. With scammers or murder. Yeah. Or any British

Dan Ilic  11:17  
listeners want to wanna have some fun with Boris Johnson I say yeah, yeah, my name is Dan I like it's good to be running the show today.

Ange Lavoipierre  11:26  
I think it's probably better actually.

Unknown Speaker  11:30  
Yeah, it couldn't be worse it could have been I licked in so you're

Dan Ilic  11:36  
yeah well, when I used to do kind of Lewis and I used to work on kind of worms and when we did that dico used to call me Danny lick and yeah, it was so anyway, so tonight well actually the billboards are going to be coming out actually before this publishes so for folks on the stream you're about to see the world exclusive of what the billboard in Times Square looks like. So are you guys ready to say this with us? Yeah. All right, here we go. So what we've got is we've got our a classic Australia net zero by 2300. This has got a bouncing kangaroo with flames on fire. It's incredible animation. That's going to be take up a whole city block in New York City. We've also got a great Australian government against humanity. AD, which is great, including to to flop This is during a deadly pandemic former commission to fix the problem by building a gas pipeline. And then the next flop says as carbon emissions reach forward in 16 parts per million the most urgent thing to do is approved for new coal mines in one month. On one of the corner billboards we've got a ad for a fake Comic Con, but instead of Comic Con, we've gone with Cali con, its special guest Matt Canavan, winner of best called cosplay 2020 and on the other side we've got a missing persons ad. Morrison last seen doing nothing answers to scomo and mykolaiv the chaser have have authored a billboard as well they sent me some artwork, which is this one called a file dump goes to Glasgow and you may have seen you may have seen this floating around people have been tagging him in tagging me in it all week it is this ad from Shaun Marsh visit Australia we're rich in sunshine wind and climate denial which is great so there you go. That's that's what some that's what's coming down the line so the biggest billboard in New York City that's fantastic you

Lewis Hobba  13:33  
need to just film it for the 10 minutes and then put it on loop on YouTube so it looked like it was for an hour

Dan Ilic  13:41  
well it's gonna be a three minute 20 loop people will be able to say it three times All right, let's get into the second fear I CAG vs ibac and what are some of the greatest hits of ik

Ange Lavoipierre  13:53  
Ah, there's too many dimensions this is the thing I've been very effective over the years so in case anyone at all ever missed it, which just seems so distinctly unlikely but here we go. So Gladys berejiklian of course had to resign earlier this month and that was because we found out she was being investigated over the famed clay pigeon target establishment in walga Dane Simpson represent and so now that associations there forever now I'm so sorry Dane don't

Unknown Speaker  14:27  
but it's it's actually well known that if you date anyone from woolgoolga we will take you down with us we do not go down if we are ever in trouble we are like your comment your comment this flame this ball of flames is now bigger with you people it's brilliant

Dan Ilic  14:45  
Dana sorry and Stan had don't have you been to the walker Walker clay pigeon center. What's it No, no, I've

Lewis Hobba  14:50  
never been it's just for international High Roller here. It was really expensive.

Ange Lavoipierre  14:53  
It's really it's it's really well fitted out. There's like there's a little fountain like it's Should

Unknown Speaker  15:01  
you also you introduce me as an Aboriginal man What do you think I'm going to be welcome at this clay pigeon place if anything it's dangerous for me to go like they might mistake click clay pigeon for me you know they like I'm hearing clear of this place now what

Lewis Hobba  15:16  
welcome Olga means place at many pigeons

Unknown Speaker  15:20  
It is a place of many crows is what they sort of have been building their foundations on in Walker Walker for such a long time now but one of the one of the elders from this way uncle Stan grant SR which is obviously staying grants dad has been talking about this for so long that Walker Walker means place of many dance or to dance intoxicated Lee with the spirits which is so so cool but what I find funny is that he put this out there I don't I don't use stories and this is only recent in the past like three or four years and somebody in the comments on the newspaper actually wrote you can't just come in and change tradition and blowing my mind

Lewis Hobba  16:09  
Yeah, I will thank you for that correction I've been I've been I've been shooting my mouth off about place for many crows for a long time I've been wrong for a long time so apologies to all the people

Unknown Speaker  16:18  
everyone has even on the walker City Council's like boards memos and stuff it's got like a little crow that's the logo so it's it's a it's something that's deep embedded in the walker Walker culture so it's only just recently that uncle Stan grants been August and grants been talking about it for a while, but it's only been adopted and starting to change in the last couple of years which is us hoping

Ange Lavoipierre  16:41  
it comes up at AIPAC so there is I really think that that would be well here's my thing. Okay, so I have reached the conclusion that no one gives a shit about corruption allegations, like correct me if I'm wrong, but I am yet to find anyone who truly gives like an emotional shit I'm not talking about like, Oh, you know the story about the resignation or like getting to like re talk about Gladys and Darrell which, you know, is wonderful fodder for FM radio. You know, I'm talking about actually caring about alleged corruption. No one minds the main headline here so here we go. It's gonna blow you away. It's beautiful. Upon a Victorian Labour Party electric officer has told a corruption hearing he was ordered to buy 1000s of dollars worth of stamps with taxpayer money. And we wonder why it's not getting people hot under the collar. Like spam so quick. I can't even think of what it like maybe pet rocks, but at least that would be kooky. Like what if it was 14 $100 worth of firecrackers then? Maybe we could. Like I think they've got to they've got to watch

Dan Ilic  17:58  
$800 worth of sex workers. The sexier headline here Yeah, this is this I mean, that's classic classic Labor Party fair though. That's very different. literally anything

Ange Lavoipierre  18:07  
that stands like corruption has become less sexy. alleged corruption has become less sexy. Let me be

Dan Ilic  18:15  
I CAC is so boring. Like what would make it more fun? What would make ipecac more fun Dan?

Unknown Speaker  18:21  
I know what it is I call it and this is sort of describes the difference between aicok and ibac is if because I cakes a little bit more stronger you know like they if they come after you I catch myself you know what I mean? That's how you remember and if you if it's the other one then I back you to get out of the allegations. That's how

Dan Ilic  18:47  
Yeah, I think you know, I think you know, question time itself is pretty childish, I think why not extend that childishness to like a squid game scenario put all the politicians in an arena with like Hungry Hungry Hippos? You know,

Ange Lavoipierre  19:01  
I think they need to do more of like a traditional broadcast approach to this whole thing like recognize that they're in a competitive media environment, right on some drag queens to talk about the fashion crimes in the room.

Dan Ilic  19:13  
Like it's a knockout it's a no calf of politicians. This is what we want to say.

Ange Lavoipierre  19:18  
We want to see them fight maybe like you know, spend a couple of hours talking about pork barrel in short, but then move on to some actual pork recipes, you know.

Dan Ilic  19:29  
Now on aicok, it is time for the physical challenge.

Lewis Hobba  19:34  
If it was like Ninja Warrior, and at the end of instead of a million dollars cash, it was a paper bag with $14,000 worth of stamps now I'm watching.

Ange Lavoipierre  19:42  
Yeah, totally. I just don't think that explored all the options. I think there is a way to really reengage the Australian electorate in the important work of these anti corruption bodies, but I just don't think they're going the right way around

Lewis Hobba  19:54  
it has gogglebox ever watched I CAC.

Unknown Speaker  19:59  
Rational fair For all of those still upset Gladys berejiklian has resigned this might be the remedy for you. life sized cardboard cutouts of the former New South Wales premier have been put for sale online. Apparently they are sold out

Unknown Speaker  20:13  
you're listening to a rational fear.

Dan Ilic  20:16  
This week's that the a small Sydney coffee shop was targeted by an anti vaxxer following the New South Wales health rules in New South Wales. This coffee shoppers received quite a swell of support now the barista and dresser cares 28 was working alone in the cafe when a man arrived and started abusing her saying you're walking implicitly into segregation after yelling at her the man walked away and he said he was very powerful and urged his visitors urged his viewers not to visit the cafe down is segregation the new black

Unknown Speaker  20:56  
is at Vax is like the new black is that that's probably it for like, because it's so crazy that they are talking about a country that was actually segregated you know, and it wasn't even that long ago like we're not even reaching into that fiery history since 1967. Obviously the referendum giving Aboriginal people rights and being recognized as as real people and it's so nuts that somebody would just go Yeah, not same thing. Like that's crazy to me that the

Dan Ilic  21:29  
government like oh, and also like you being anti Vax is actually a choice. Like that's Yeah.

Lewis Hobba  21:36  
Yeah, like that. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker  21:37  
that the, you know, the government's going to, I don't know, go in and start like taking their kids. You know, like, that's a really dark part of our history. Yeah. A stolen generation happened to a race of people. And then just somebody who decides not to take the vaccine goes now I can relate to them. Like that's crazy to me. And I just absolutely blows my mind. I genuinely think that people really need to, like and don't get me wrong, I do understand I get that they they feel like they are mistreated. But to me it's a crazy that someone can just go on I've made choices. And now there's consequences for my choices. Since when did someone bring this in? You know, like it's Yeah, that's how the world works, idiot. Yeah,

Ange Lavoipierre  22:25  
you can have too much empathy, right? You can have wet you can have too much. I mean, like, I understand what you went through and you're like, no, you're trying for empathy.

Unknown Speaker  22:40  
Yeah, we've we've did some horrible things to some particularly like Aboriginal people but which which is what he's sort of like linking to but to a lot of different cultures in Australia so it's weird that that's the angle that he's decided to go down I'd be picking a lot more lighter topic if I was

Dan Ilic  23:00  
here. Yeah, it's like on an iodine genocide versus getting a little NATO to put that on the scales you know, let's weigh that up here.

Unknown Speaker  23:09  
Why aren't people with pimples on television more like that's where he should be going with it. You don't like

Lewis Hobba  23:18  
that there was an anti Vax mom who started the yellow stars on to her kids. Oh he says heavy stuff totally like it's it's so it's between Yeah, the the like racial segregation ties and then he just like, if you are ever looking for sympathy for your cause, get the fuck away from these topics like you are you cannot as a white person sit there and I mean, it's just it is infuriating and horrifying stuff. But I will say on a lighter note that what I because that cafe, obviously, after the anti vaxxer had the big grand, the cafe went wild, filled with positive reviews, lines around the block everyone posting videos about how they were going to. So I would just like to say if there are any anti vaxxers who would like to have a rant about this podcast, we would welcome it. And if you can do it in a public place as possible. We would really appreciate it as we love subscribers.

Dan Ilic  24:15  
Let's say Hang on a sec now 10 News caught up with this hashtag a very powerful anti vaxxer let's just see how mighty he is. Here we

Lewis Hobba  24:23  
go. Reaching boiling point and anti vaxxer blows off steam at an innocent barista. Hang on a sec. I know we're about to get into the heavy stuff but let's I it's been a while since I've watched commercial news and full hat tip to all the puns in that first to set in like I made it's just good to

Ange Lavoipierre  24:47  
piggyback as well because I don't know that like innocent barista. Like how can we know that for sure like that's really don't know what I'm already on. God is what I'm saying.

Dan Ilic  24:59  
We need it. Calculating an icon for cafes. That doesn't mean

Unknown Speaker  25:03  
that I'm gonna hand over my medical private information of whether I'm vaccinated or not vaccinated to buy a cup of coffee

Lewis Hobba  25:10  
fresh security vision revealed his face for the first time today. And we tracked him down the man who are Hang on a second. You must be kicking himself for not wearing a mask after that. It's like oh, you know, they can track me down.

Dan Ilic  25:26  
Very powerful. He looks like he looks like Louis hobas child he

Lewis Hobba  25:29  
can't look like white supremacist to me. I don't I don't like it. On his dorm claims he's now sorry.

Unknown Speaker  25:39  
Do you regret what you did? Absolutely wholeheartedly there's a right way and a wrong way to go about disagreeing as

Ange Lavoipierre  25:44  
Hang on a sec. Hang on a sec. This is this is exactly how I would apologize when I was 15 I apologize when you're a teenager and you've been caught and you don't mean it and you're being like forced to apologize. Like it's like the child version of a court order. Like if you it's like I am so sorry for what I do. Maybe I'm being cynical,

Unknown Speaker  26:08  
emotional reaction to what 20 plus moms have been locked away in our home for being completely healthy last time I checked

Lewis Hobba  26:16  
It's not the first time John's publicly expressed his views regular rants or online social media streams the government

Unknown Speaker  26:23  
ain't ever gonna give us back out right Hang

Unknown Speaker  26:27  
on a sec Yeah, he's he's he's wearing a backwards hat I just needed to bring that up that's like if you want to be taken seriously don't do the Pucci you know arrange no one respects that dude at all.

Lewis Hobba  26:45  
also given that this week the government has given back the right together is this age Paulie?

Ange Lavoipierre  26:52  
like super concerned about accuracy right like its accuracy one of his core values? I'm not sure I don't know.

Dan Ilic  26:58  
Yeah, neither away

Lewis Hobba  27:00  
it's this has been brewing for some time having to stop Hang on a sec. Let's just take note he did say brewing. reading them all the way through it never stops. But gentlemen,

Unknown Speaker  27:15  
I'm feeling very convicted today to do the right thing and send a heartfelt apology to the community and to other baristas that may have come into tracks with my anti vaccine sentiment the

Ange Lavoipierre  27:25  
feelings no thick I love and I am going to borrow from this man. The casual apology like whilst apologizing to one member on every other member of that group may be offended. Apologize to roadwork is everywhere you know.

Lewis Hobba  27:46  
If you did by me Feel free to watch this clip back anytime.

Unknown Speaker  27:55  
Community statues Unfortunately, the whole ordeal has left a bitter taste in the mouth of bitter, bitter taste bitter taste,

Lewis Hobba  28:07  
bitter taste building to Iran as well I reckon we're about to I reckon we're about to hear a bunch

Unknown Speaker  28:13  
on froth in it you could sell them so looking forward to opening up and then that happened that it was just like devastating.

Unknown Speaker  28:23  
But business was heaving this morning.

Dan Ilic  28:27  
Perhaps stood out by some encouragement don't doubt

Lewis Hobba  28:32  
that it counts.

Dan Ilic  28:33  
It's I'm I'm waiting for a better latte than never is that gonna come?

Lewis Hobba  28:39  
Inside state parliament.

Unknown Speaker  28:41  
That community responded and has responded I encourage every member here to order a coffee from this cafe.

Lewis Hobba  28:47  
Dom's also got some ground to make up with his family ground ground count. I reckon he felt like a weird sentence.

Unknown Speaker  28:59  
It was like it ever

Lewis Hobba  29:01  
the drama, but would he do it again?

Unknown Speaker  29:04  
Let's just see what December one looks like for us, Australia, shall we? Steve had

Ange Lavoipierre  29:13  
a dress like I resent to him, like addressing the nation as a whole, like the like, okay, Australia, like, come on. How do we work out how powerful he is.

Dan Ilic  29:24  
And people in New South Wales named Dom have a real complex about running the state so you know, don't don't

Lewis Hobba  29:31  
ask as a radio professional. You got to respect that taze. You know what I mean? Let's just see what's happening. We'll just say where I am on December 1, you like, I gotta be honest.

Unknown Speaker  29:44  
It's the chocolate on top.

Lewis Hobba  29:49  
Really, because again, trouble cafe he know.

Dan Ilic  29:54  
If you've been following along with this podcast for a fair few years, you'll notice the trend where we mock the most Powerful news organization in the country whenever they feel their pages or airwaves with climate denial. It's kind of fun. It's like low hanging carbon emissions. It's really easy to do. But it's this week you might have seen front cover celebrating how Australia could be the number one in the new global economy the new green and gold. Joining us to explain what is going on is friend of the show who once said that Greta tunberg was the worst possible advocate for climate change, which is why he thinks he can do better himself is the former co host of Studio 10 and current ravey lefty latte sipping learning of health straight. It's the editor at large of The Daily Telegraph Joe Hildebrand. Welcome Joe.

Unknown Speaker  30:40  
Hi, welcome now Can I just say you goddamn millennials, you're just never happy if you're pitching. Rupert Murdoch, he doesn't know anything about climate change on The Daily Telegraph. And everyday this beautiful 16 page wraparound saying that climate change is real we got to get to net zero. Here's all the ways we can do it. And then what do you do you just Bichon mind Simo and now you're picking

Unknown Speaker  31:06  
up the small bars. local park and I cycled around on your little fixes and pretend that you're exercising

Lewis Hobba  31:18  
yeah that's the pack that's the pack of having done the right thing for two decades

Unknown Speaker  31:24  
we were just waiting for the right time.

Lewis Hobba  31:28  
Well you missed it. It was three It was 30 years ago.

Unknown Speaker  31:32  
Everyone knows that nothing real happens until the Scots get involved

Dan Ilic  31:37  
now Joe Joe Don't be too funny otherwise we at the risk of humanizing you then canceled you did mention a 16 page wraparound and I did pick up today's Daily Telegraph and I'm really excited to say just what is wrapped around it oh yeah 16 months interest free from Harvey Norman Interestingly though 16 months interest free is actually the Nationals position on climate action so they take any take any interest for 16 months Okay, what is going on here? Like what is truly happening here now you are the the official poster boy for this whole initiative? What does it feel like to be a shill

Unknown Speaker  32:18  
to start call Firstly, when you held up that front page I thought we were going to be talking about terrorist talkfest now that's the story

Dan Ilic  32:26  
yeah you know that's the thing about News Corp they love they love freedom of speech except when terrorists are talking

Unknown Speaker  32:32  
we are being funny like that I guess course old fashioned you know sour sour in your mind but you know if you're a terrorist well maybe not. I was actually thinking writing a column you know in defense of the Taliban well maybe you know, I did the one column I always wanted to write was in defense of corruption because you know surely you know look look look look at the world again

Unknown Speaker  32:58  
No, the no terrorist Lives Matter hashtag. I think I think that's important and I think the cutlery supplies at the RSL that matters and now now we're just talking about it flippantly it's

Dan Ilic  33:12  
jo jo has it's been it's been three minutes Joe has not answered any questions

Ange Lavoipierre  33:19  
like round in this three minutes and we have covered in the podcast so far like we got the cutlery I didn't

Unknown Speaker  33:29  
like people criticize down McGuire but the cutlery at the walker RSL is second to none is genuinely

Dan Ilic  33:35  
like when you bought when your boss says when your boss says to you, oh, Joe, can you please get a wheel out this new campaign to help News Corp greenwash its image like how do you feel about that? What do you say? Obviously you said Yes,

Unknown Speaker  33:46  
I'd say yes. And I would say we did a pretty good job. I mean, if you have a look at it, this isn't just wash. This is polished. This is Sean. You can't come to a holiday. What most people don't understand. It's been 10 years when jeans at our news companies he changes position or whatever. And then we change our position, which in fact is the position we always had. But you guys were just so disagreeable that you'd never even got credit for

Unknown Speaker  34:19  
a 16 page no ads not even here. Yeah, you call it you say we're doing it for money or doing it. There's no accident. We do it all for you. We put it in nice little words. We'd love to be pictures so you can understand everything. And in what did you cop? criticize? I mean, honestly, what's the poor fella got to do he's sitting there in New York.

Dan Ilic  34:40  
allowed to live is a daily show you've got two articles have you on on on that double page spread in today's paper? Well, only one's got a photo though. How come you didn't put your photo on the other one. But he's he's wondering let me just read it. Let me just read out one headline here. Solar costs a costly exercise says Gina Reinhardt, Jane and Ron Hart says the most the cheapest possible power in the world is a costly exercise and this is the opening paragraph Joe in your prime the pro climate change article you've got here. Australia's richest women woman Jenna Reinhardt is warning that rushing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions without proper costings could imperil fam a family farmers and cost taxpayers billions in subsidies there's no there's no mention in this article about the billions of subsidies the general gets.

Unknown Speaker  35:29  
Well firstly, that article was written by our far right national environment reporter David Mills so I can't wrap for him but if you're okay yeah, look for his work in the Adelaide advertiser you will say this guy is arriving like Hey mate, Andrew bolt looks like look like Tim Flannery. It's disgusting and I'm trying to distance myself from him as we speak

Dan Ilic  35:51  
we haven't distanced himself very well because you're you're both of your articles are on either side of his article like that's gonna talk to you to talk to your layout persons

Unknown Speaker  35:59  
it's difficult for people to get their heads around but my article is the one underneath my name and the giant picture of my head that's how we differentiate them and and also we're not i'm not sure we may be pro climate change I think I thought I think you mean pro action on climate change but in fact we're not even that because we're

Dan Ilic  36:20  
pro climate action fair and balanced. Yes, fair and balanced likes like our friends at Fox News. So tell us why is this position rolling out Joe? Why Why is why now a few months out from a federal election is this position in News Corp the most powerful newspaper company in Australia rolling out right now why

Unknown Speaker  36:41  
cuz you asked us to you. You keep going on about and then we give it to you.

Ange Lavoipierre  36:50  
Are you taking requests now that you're doing things because other people in Australia asked you to? Is that like a

Unknown Speaker  36:59  
Joseph Walton GoFundMe page?

Dan Ilic  37:06  
So what kind of priority Joe what kind of priority is this new campaign is your zero emissions campaign like well, what kind of priorities News Corp taking with

Unknown Speaker  37:15  
it was a 16 page wraparound on Monday's newspaper how much more priority do

Dan Ilic  37:22  
amazing 16 pages

Unknown Speaker  37:25  
pocket there weren't even any ads on it because we do you guys were talking about that too. Even though you've got your little gaps in your Sleeping Giants and you're mad I think which is saying oh withdrawal advertising until they realized that the only way to get money is to embrace action on climate change. price action on climate change.

Dan Ilic  37:48  
Joe Joe, Joe, we're not attacking you personally. But what are you doing this? Like, what when when they came to you and said could you be the face of this? What did you say?

Unknown Speaker  38:04  
I said I said sorry come again.

Lewis Hobba  38:07  
You No.

Unknown Speaker  38:11  
Oh, I get and I said yeah, yeah.

Dan Ilic  38:18  
This is this is like it's so strange. Like, for years, Murdoch papers have done irreparable damage to climate action to Australia. Inc. Going against all the policies that successive Australian Governments have put in championing for dismantling those policies. And then you think 16 pages will do the trick. Do you think 16 pages will save the world?

Unknown Speaker  38:42  
Well, David, I would argue with a few of those heroic assumptions, the drivers overwhelmingly endorsed Kevin Rudd in 2007. He doesn't seem to remember that these days, as much credit for it. But certainly The Daily Telegraph in the Australian firmly endorsed his prime ministership, in the lead up to the election as all newspapers do, and they editorialize in favor of one candidate or another one party or another. So that certainly happened. And then when the Kevin Rudd was rolled by the greens, when when the greens actually were the ones who knifed his emissions trading scheme in the senate alone,

Dan Ilic  39:25  
did they just do that by themselves? That wasn't that wasn't the right of that wasn't the rise of the Labour Party.

Unknown Speaker  39:33  
I'm glad I'm glad you asked. I'm glad you asked. So So firstly, the rise of the Liberal Party. No.

Lewis Hobba  39:42  
Climate change show it's such an absolute

Unknown Speaker  39:54  
climate change the right you

Dan Ilic  39:56  
need to fly these job because you're drowning. That's what I want to ask you. Is this kind of a ride across the news club Empire is is all of news club gonna embrace this this whole move to net zero emissions?

Unknown Speaker  40:09  
I do not know. We are a FREE and independently spirited organization which values editorial freedom and so yeah which

Lewis Hobba  40:17  
is I feel like Johnny Depp weed Barnaby Joyce just off camera

Unknown Speaker  40:31  
way All right. Free and impartial organization now is something that all they examine all the metro editors so the editors of the major Metro dailies decided upon in a an editorial board meeting so

Dan Ilic  40:50  
independently decided to go along this mission that which is terrific but he never say the same headline on the front page of any news cope newspaper ever you never say like all these court papers all around Australia never run the same front page ever. They don't do that.

Unknown Speaker  41:06  
That's because I haven't had one written by me before. I could even do the same one I just hit crazy, those Queensland's I just go and do their own thing. It must be written by Jeanette young.

Dan Ilic  41:18  
Well, here is a here's a great clip from Sherry moccasins book launch earlier this week. Joe love your thoughts on this is Tucker Carlson until he about climate change. One of your one of your colleagues in America

Unknown Speaker  41:29  
shares point about the international scientific community but clowning itself and degrading its own moral authority. These are the same people and these are the same governments who when COVID finally has will use their moral authority to impose a global warming regime on the west. And that is absolutely the plan. They say it constantly. And in order to do that, they're going to need people to believe that there is such a thing as scientific consensus, and that their point of view is an expression of that consensus. And what we've learned in the past two years, and I'm trying not to use profanity at your air, but that's that's not true. It's bs actual, that these are political actors using the residual respect that people in the West have for science in order to get what they want politically. And once we know that it's impossible to unknown.

Dan Ilic  42:19  
So Joe, what is your colleague mean that what are what are scientists who are investigating climate change? What do they want to do? They want to run a country? Is this what he's saying?

Unknown Speaker  42:29  
I'm not I'm not sure. I'm trying. I'm busy trying to unknown that. I don't know precisely what he's saying. But I don't really care how many sees whatever he wants. Yeah, we are. We are,

Dan Ilic  42:46  
Joe. Joe, I know you've got a job, you got a family. I mean, Jenny, you got to get a job as

Unknown Speaker  42:56  
my opinion and say whatever I like Tucker Carlson has a job in which he can express his opinion and say whatever he likes sharing my job.

Lewis Hobba  43:04  
But don't some of those opinions need to be checked by like facts. As a journalist,

Unknown Speaker  43:11  
by the way, I believe that legally defensible position of an opinion is an honestly held opinion based on the valuable facts.

Lewis Hobba  43:22  
Theoretically, you could put legally any opinion in a newspaper. I'm just wondering whether or not you should put all opinions

Dan Ilic  43:30  
also jo jo

Unknown Speaker  43:32  
million monkeys and a million typewriters.

Dan Ilic  43:36  
And can I I don't think it's, I don't think it's understanding or hyperbole to say, at this point in time, in the time in the history of the world, we're at a serious rule point where everybody needs to use their power to see meaningful reductions of climate emissions of greenhouse gas emissions and meaningful leadership to make that happen. The folks that News Corp get behind do not do that. They are bad actors. Why? Why don't you use your power to help these folks really align with what needs to actually be done.

Unknown Speaker  44:12  
I'm leaving an editorial series that just launched with an unprecedented ad for a 16 page wrap, all of which outlined, the actions that Australia can take to get to net zero and how beneficial it would be for the country. We're following that up and have followed it up with a series of multiple double page spreads, splashes across all the metro mastheads that again, reinforce all the opportunities that come come to Australia by embracing netzero and tackling climate change and reducing carbon emissions. The series is ongoing, it is ongoing indefinitely. Our partners and countries ongoing

Dan Ilic  44:55  
indefinitely. I thought you said as a limited series. You're only gonna do a bunch of

Unknown Speaker  44:59  
minutes. I was limited

Dan Ilic  45:01  
Oh I must have missed a master mistake

Unknown Speaker  45:04  
I know it's it's going it's going for it's going for no no but News Corp Australia it's not even news it's going for at this stage about 29 years until 2015. going right up to Glasgow throughout Glasgow. We have we have contributors ranging from the Australian Conservation Foundation the World Wildlife Fund. Got an update from Adam bank in the pipeline. One from my space Yep, yep, you heard it here first. And I think we're ready

Ange Lavoipierre  45:41  
for flowers to like get any of these people to participate or were they just up for it?

Unknown Speaker  45:46  
No that knocking our door down there absolutely knocking our door down we broke Chris Bowen launching the Australia Institute's report. I mean, now we've got 24th Mark Carnegie I don't know what sort of people you're worried about we've got all these guys on board who are saying this if you if you're saying if you're saying that we also should silence anyone who disagrees well that is something that so Roger or anyone who believes

Dan Ilic  46:13  
I couldn't help notice Joe Wallace I couldn't help notice Joe while this campaign launched, Alan Jones was harsh it was in quotes in hospital is that for a reason at all?

Unknown Speaker  46:25  
Yes rupert murdoch shot his yeah he cut his brake cables on the way out any I don't I'm not sure if Alan Jones is even a columnist in the paper anymore but um but again I don't I don't understand I don't understand the logic that we do we do this we do this thing we bring out this series that outlines in full technical detail and again How am I doing this is the normal job. But hang on a minute. You used to employ Alan Jones or that you still let this person speak? I don't

Lewis Hobba  47:07  
like if you knew someone if you knew someone personally who had been wrong for their whole life, and then suddenly completely changed their opinion but you'd been sitting there going I know who they are now I'm right and you're why this person and not only were they wrong, but they were telling everyone else this wrong fact and then suddenly they just pivoted it didn't bother to go Joe I gotta be honest sorry I was wrong for so long. like to just do a pivot and then a gaslight and be like no we always thought this like it's you got to understand the handbrake that you put Australia on with absolutely no warning and like not even not even a little sorry for all of the bullshit like nothing

Unknown Speaker  47:44  
like thank you for noticing Louis I have always been right. And I always say I've always said exactly the same sorts of things that we're saying now in this series you can look at anything I've written anything I've say said on Sky or on radio.

Dan Ilic  47:59  
I've always had gratitude and gratitude Berg is a terrible advocate for a lot because

Unknown Speaker  48:03  
that's why that's why I'll have to come along she makes it she makes it look silly and ridiculous I mean, jumping up and down I mean I don't want to join the pile on against credit because she's a kid but the cult worship of grown adults who should know better who think that this is gonna somehow persuade middle Australia or country and regional Australia that this is the way to get on board that's that's madness. They're writing

Dan Ilic  48:29  
kids because kids become adults Joe and and she's she's 19 she's across the science I've seen her talk I've listened to her speak she's pretty incredible.

Unknown Speaker  48:37  
I don't wanna have a god I've been I've been the why the why to get people on board with tackling climate change and hitting the boys and zeros to tell them about the opportunities that are there and to tell them about the jobs the economics not to jump up and down and say

Lewis Hobba  48:59  
like copyright infringement you just saying well the rest of the world has been saying for so long, it's like

Unknown Speaker  49:06  
the rest of the world has actually been focused the rest of the world and if you look at a lot of the a lot of the coverage and a lot of what's been said previously, the rest of the world and many other media outlets have been focused more on the catastrophic catastrophic consequences of inaction or if you want if you want to actually persuade people and you want to get people on board, I think you offer the more carrot and less stick I'm just a positive guy. What can I say? More capitalistic,

Dan Ilic  49:34  
you know like, like, like, you know like mortgage to redo your home with with with solar panels. That's a good thing to do.

Unknown Speaker  49:44  
Yeah, we're doing a lot of that you should read the campaign. It's really good.

Dan Ilic  49:50  
It's an editorial tubers who came on the show a few months ago, Joe and Saul's an incredible brain when he said to me said, you know, News Corp. Got to run this campaign. What do you think of it? I think I said I think that's a great thing because it actually does hit into middle Australia. It is the folks that do by the Daily Telegraph to read the rugby pages only. It is an incredible vehicle for the one with a round with the ball with the with the thing. It is incredible. It is incredible resource for folks, everyday Australians, and it is really important vehicle and a platform to tell the truth. I just guess everyone's baffled as to why you're telling it. Now,

Unknown Speaker  50:36  
right? If you confuse you can read a soul Griffis plan on how households can save enormous amounts of money on their power bills in Saturday's Daily Telegraph or your favorite news quote paper wherever you live in Australia. So Griffith is a proud partner of mission zero.

Dan Ilic  50:50  
Joe, thank you so much. You're gonna jump in and

Unknown Speaker  50:56  
just like chatting to Joe is the conversational equivalent to untangling headphones and it's like

Unknown Speaker  51:10  
everything you want, everything you ever want has done everything.

Unknown Speaker  51:13  
rotten. I can finally hear that Cheers. But I've got to like, Listen, I'm not into that. Yeah. Beautiful.

Dan Ilic  51:21  
Thank you for coming on and letting us ridicule you to your face. We really appreciate it. You're always extremely generous.

Unknown Speaker  51:32  
There's no planet Bay.

Dan Ilic  51:34  
We go. That's it for our show tonight. I want to thank all of our guests tonight Angela papa. Dane Simpson Lewis Halbert. Joe Hildebrand What would you like to plug and

Ange Lavoipierre  51:45  
Oh God, I know it's gonna get the chance. Um, I've got a comedy show coming up at Sydney. It weirdly it's happening again? factory theater 11th 12th 13th of November. It's called spiders Follow me. There will be no spiders in the show. I can't contractually guarantee that but it's not likely there's going to be so many of us that probably get afraid and run away anyway. Factory theater 11 1213 spot is calling me you can find it online.

Dan Ilic  52:14  
Dan Simpson well you want to play

Unknown Speaker  52:16  
I've got my new show coming out. Did you read doozy I'm going to be Perth, Adelaide Melbourne all around Google me check it out. I'm all over the telly doing all these different shows as well as check it all out it's awesome also, Louis looks like youtuber Tom cardi and I

Lewis Hobba  52:35  
are quite good friends that I've grown this mustache in his honor.

Dan Ilic  52:38  
Oh there you go. Joe Hildebrand I not quite sure what you want to plug but what would you like to blog

Unknown Speaker  52:45  
Oh apparently this campaign that the newspapers are doing called mission zero sounds real about it. But there's this thing called climate change apparently is really bad so we should get on board.

Dan Ilic  53:01  
It is and they are taking it very seriously. And you can actually sign up to their email newsletter I've actually done that myself. So I went to the news corp email list and it's not under the AMPM it's not under what the buzz it's not under breaking news alert you have to scroll all the way down Blair report go pass go pass Sydney confidential go past the beat the bookies email if you want to skip that email list, it's not the real estate section. You can't sign up yet to that sports news update then go past the true crime Australia email list you don't want that's not the one you want. You definitely don't want to sign up to the divine report. That's not the that's not the one you want to sign up to go past. Extra cover a whole email all about cricket. And then at the bottom, you will see mission zero newsletter. That's the one if you're interested in climate change, the greatest moral problem of our generation, you'll want to scroll all the way to the bottom of the news corp email list to sign up to that one. So

Unknown Speaker  54:05  
I want to see what she had to say.

Dan Ilic  54:10  
Joe, thank you so much for joining us on rational fear again. I always enjoy having you on Big thanks to Rhode Mike's Patreon. Our Patreon supporters the Bertha foundation. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Introducing the new monthly spin-off podcast from A Rational Fear — Julia Zemiro Asks 'Who Cares?' 

Each month for the next 6 months, Julia will be interviewing change makers, civic leaders, and people who organise their communities and claim their power to discover the secrets to making good things happen.

This month Julia chats with:

Mark Kelly — The instigator of the 'Vote Tony Out' campaign. Hear this incredible story of agitation, and organisation. To get rid of one of the most malevolent actors in Australian political history.

also we hear from

Sally Rugg — Sally is one of the best brains in change making, and community building in the world. A  long time activist, campaigner, and leader in many movements, but most notably she helped lead Australia through the complex, and emotionally traumatic fight for Marriage Equality.  

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THANK YOU TO

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and our Patreon Supporters.

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G'day Fearmongers  — On the podcast this week we chat with Kylea Tink — the new independent candidate for North Sydney who is running in the lower house at the next federal election. Who is she? Why is she running?

Also comedians Ben Jenkins, Diana Nguyen, Dan Ilic, and Lewis Hobba dissect Scott Morrison's COP cop-out, plans to assassinate Julian Assange, and Diana decides to run for the Northern Beaches electorate of Mackellar.

NEXT WEEK:  You'll hear our new spin-off show "Julia Zemiro Asks Who Cares?"

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Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.

Dan Ilic  0:04  
Good evening, Lewis. How are you?

Lewis Hobba  0:06  
Hello, moneybags. How are you?

Dan Ilic  0:08  
Well, let's not talk about that yet. We're gonna save that for the show. But Louis, we might by happenstance have a few more listeners on the podcast this week. I don't know why I don't know why. But for people who've never heard the podcast, Lewis, so what? How would you describe it?

Lewis Hobba  0:24  
It's a great question, Dan. I would describe it as there's chitchat. There's news, there's climate change. There's interviews. But mostly it's a fundraising campaign. We're essentially take your money. There are people here who are saying you're talking about important issues, you're talking about climate change? Yes, sure. That is a smokescreen. At the end of the day. What we want is cash, cash, cash, cash, cash.

Dan Ilic  0:48  
It's true, it's true. We want your cash head to patreon.com forward slash irrational for you. And the other thing we want your money for you hear about in a second, we should let people know that this is the kind of podcast where eventually we discover who gets murdered. But at the end of the season, and this show, you know, we were 130 episodes in. It's a long game. It's a long game. Yeah, that's

Lewis Hobba  1:10  
right. Much like a true crime podcast. It has been going on too long.

Dan Ilic  1:13  
I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the ordination, sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  1:20  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra COMM And section body or rational fear recommends listening my image your audience.

Dan Ilic  1:33  
Tonight with Australia coming out of lockdown Scott Larson says he may not go to Glasgow as he has more important picnics to see back at home and Prince Andrew has been served with a sexual assault lawsuit in the United States. The prince was quite accepting of the latest developments saying no sweat and after information leaks that the CIA considered killing Julian Assange for leaking information. Mike Pompeo asks for options to have himself assassinated. It's the first of October and this is the podcast that Nancy Pelosi calls the best podcasts in Australia. This is a rational feeling.

Welcome to rational fi I'm your host former professional singing kebabs Dan Ellis and let's meet our female guest for tonight. She's the queen of corporate comedy on LinkedIn and she's probably considers herself a little bit snotty judge for yourself from this note cast is Dinah Newman. Hi welcome welcome Diana.

Diana Nguyen  2:36  
Welcome thanks for welcoming and I welcome myself

Dan Ilic  2:40  
you could just do it you want to take over here and welcome Ben Jenkins deadly very good to you know from the checkout when the week the fade you also might know him as your friend in the group chat who's always talking about how great it is to be sober in the pandemic. It's the intoxicating but not intoxicated, then Jenkins Welcome back. Hello.

How is sobriety going for you Ben.

Ben Jenkins  3:03  
It's you know, it's I don't know, I don't know if you guys have ever done a stint of sobriety. But one of one of the things that like it's very good, but one of the things that they don't tell you is that you can't be drunk I'd say that it's a major drawback

Lewis Hobba  3:25  
getting on board until I had that factor now it's a no Yeah, no,

Ben Jenkins  3:28  
they put it in the fine print. I'm

Dan Ilic  3:30  
I'm drinking right now. He kind of stumped me. And he's a man I haven't actually written your intro Louis. I've had a big day sees a man Lewis

Lewis Hobba  3:37  
he's a man that's it. That's all I get unbelievable. But you know what? an upgrade on the boy I used to be.

Dan Ilic  3:46  
I still enjoyed introducing Craig rocastle last week his former chaser boy now chaser, man. He loves it. Coming up. We're gonna be talking with Kylie Tink the new candidate for North Sydney. It's very excited, independent candidate. But first, we're gonna message from our sponsor a real sponsor. Well, sort of it is us. We've actually got a new spin off show starting once a month here on this feed hosted by a very famous Australian. Have a listen. Here's the trailer

Julia Zemiro  4:14  
Hello Julia Zemiro here, and I've got a new podcast about politics for people who hate politics. Australians have any confidence. I know look, sometimes reading the news can make me feel powerless. So I started asking my friends. Does anyone care? I found out a lot of people do care what started as a fight for justice. Today's protest is proof it's not working. We have to do it. We've got to see change. I also discovered what happens in Canberra affects you but here's the amazing thing you can affect Canberra. I'm feeling more powerful already. Once a month on the irrational fear podcast feed. I'll be asking Who cares? In my new podcast, Julia Zemiro asks Who cares? I know I'm some kind of marketing genius. Some of the folks I'll be talking with, you'll know and some of them you won't. There'll be from all walks of life making a difference in ways big and small. I want to excite you to listen, talk, think more about the choices we actually do have, and how we can get active and learn just how powerful we can be. We have an election coming up. And I want us to know a bit more about what's happening out there so that when you go into vote, UK, so grab your megaphone and yell, what do we want another podcast? Why do we want it only once a month for about six months?

Dan Ilic  5:37  
Thank you. There you go. Jay Z here at first on next Thursday, we're going to be taking a break and Jay Z is going to be taking over next. On next Thursday's podcast. All right. This week's first year, Scott Morrison has decided he won't go to the most historic global world leaders meeting in his tenure. That is the cop 26 conference Climate Change Conference in Glasgow. fishmongers. Why weren't Scott Morrison go to this very prominent event?

Ben Jenkins  6:06  
Like what's he going to do? If you if you had the opportunity to like because it is always good to turn up to Glasgow and eat shit, and like he deserves to eat shit. He shouldn't be eating shit. But if you had the option of not eating shit, you take that one right? Like

Dan Ilic  6:25  
but isn't eating shit in Glasgow more exciting than eating shit here in Australia?

Ben Jenkins  6:29  
I mean, I don't know man, I gotta tell you. I would say the only thing that I'm enjoying about this entire Prime Ministership is how much this man fucking hates being Prime Minister it's honestly the only thing that's keeping me sane is like one person having a worse time than a lot of people in lockdown and it's Scott Morrison. I shouldn't be glib because obviously a lot of people are doing a lot harder than a you know somebody is who's got millions of dollars and and and absolute job security due to a stunning lack of opposition. But like honestly, this man, like, got to wanting to be Prime Minister for all the kind of bells and whistles and sashes and nice trips and conferences where you get to wear cool clothes and carpet and red jackets. Yeah, and he's just picked the worst time in modern history to have this job for somebody for somebody you like and you write down like that's what he just wants to be whatever the prime minister or crew equivalent of just kicking back in Hawaii is he always wants to be doing and so he just goes to Hawaii does does

Dan Ilic  7:41  
the meme the main is true though the main kind of rings true that Scott Morrison does nothing like everything he does is at the last minute just as everything kind of gets to a crisis point so he can mess up handling that crisis. Everything just seems to be like, Oh no, someone else will worry about it until it becomes a void it really it's like the buck stops with him with everything but he's kind of forgotten that other people that like he needs to look after stuff as well. It's such a strange environment fame today, but I

Ben Jenkins  8:09  
do I do have like something that approaches but is not sympathy for him in in in this because like, like I say any other time in the time that he's been active in politics. That is that is the status quo. That is what you do, you know, passing the buck. Yep. And, and just putting it off, and just waiting for it to go away. Like 99% of problems. I'm not saying they should be solved this way. I think it's bad to solve this way. But politically, that has actually never been that much of a problem. And it's this guy's Mo. And like I say he's just picked VA one time in history where that looks incredibly bad.

Lewis Hobba  8:47  
Kind of like if you look at the end of say, like Julia gaylords Prime Ministership, at the end of it. She was friends with Rianna now at the end. He's gonna be friends with what Peter Dutton that is a bad dinner.

Ben Jenkins  9:01  
Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  9:04  
It's so interesting that even sports people are saying they're not going to go to the lodge, or go to kirribilli to have their photo taken with him anymore. It's such a very strange, like, go free. And hey, I'm also also on this story. A comedian wanted to buy one billboard but ended up running a welfare program for the neglect neglect to that sector. I don't know if you saw this story. So yeah, so we're in the last week on the podcast, you would have heard us talk about trying to raise $12,000 to put a billboard in Glasgow.

Lewis Hobba  9:34  
And for the record at the time, I thought a bit greedy. I was like, Alright, Dan. Look. I've been on this podcast every single episode since it started and we haven't seen $12,000 in 10 years.

Dan Ilic  9:51  
Yeah, No, we haven't. I haven't. But anyway, so I ran this Indiegogo campaign. I put the post out six o'clock on Monday, and I should have known it was going to go off. You know, when we when we spoke about on the podcast, we published the podcast on Friday. We mentioned if you want to find out about this, find out about this this project to make sure you join the email list and over the weekend, like I said 123 but 30 new people signed up to the email list. And I was like, well this actually might, this actually might be a problem like we actually might

Lewis Hobba  10:28  
wish I've never pressured for success.

Dan Ilic  10:32  
Let me tell you exactly All I want to do is pay this invoice and go to bed. I thought I've run glue as you and I ran a Kickstarter campaign or Indiegogo campaign for rational feedback in 2014 we were trying to raise $50,000 and it took a month to rise. Well I got through this Indiegogo I managed to raise 50,000 in like two days Yeah. And now it's up to 112 $112,000 so but I've got a new plan so I'm pivoting the whole campaign to cold call that joke keeper and we're basically spend a whole stack of money on billboards Yes, but a whole bunch of money on comedians who have been out of work to produce sketches for the for for the election coming up so it's a war chest to roll out for the election. It's like satire if the ABC didn't run it like the ABC is is hold on Saturday but you don't actually have to say anything with it. So it's like a Saturday you can actually have a point it's really doors you don't have to answer you'd have to talk to Becky as

Lewis Hobba  11:38  
a as a current NBC employee I have nothing to do with the billboard campaign but I do think it's great and obviously it's a bit complicated on the podcast but I'm not involved.

Dan Ilic  11:46  
Yes and Louis I want you know, you're not gonna get a single sentence. So

Diana Nguyen  11:51  
I'm just struggling struggling

Lewis Hobba  11:57  
pays me now the podcast gets behind me. Louis, what do you want

Dan Ilic  12:04  
to get paid 100 bucks a week from the podcast? Or do you want a job on national radio?

Lewis Hobba  12:09  
Honestly, that's a difficult decision right now.

Dan Ilic  12:13  
So anyway, we've got these billboards to make Dave you guys got any thoughts about what billboards we should put up like ideas for climate change oriented billboards to make fun of the climate policies of the Australian Government

Lewis Hobba  12:24  
What about since the temperature is rising the whole we make the billboard but the whole thing's like a mood ring. That changes color as it gets warmer. Right? That is great.

Dan Ilic  12:36  
I love that. Yeah, that's good.

Ben Jenkins  12:39  
What about an ad for fantasy?

Lewis Hobba  12:42  
Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Your soft drinks Coca Cola.

Dan Ilic  12:49  
This isn't a Hamish and Andy podcast,

Ben Jenkins  12:51  
delicious beverage that that that people can buy in stores and I think people would enjoy seeing that on a billboard to remind them that beverage Yeah, I may have missed the break. I just heard bill boys.

Lewis Hobba  13:05  
They're supposed to be Australian Australia represent Australia so maybe it should be something like dirt cheap furniture, you know, like, just see if he can do here's the dirty guy if in fact, isn't the dirty Guy istockphoto is that the truth? Yeah, the dirty guy who you could buy the dirty guy

Dan Ilic  13:22  
man you would know this because you would have done this for the checkout right? Surely.

Ben Jenkins  13:25  
Actually. No, I stole this fact from James Colley because he did it on growing and I'll do it again. Yeah, he was a he's a stock photo guy and he and he he has a pipe in the stock photo he's got a pipe in his mouth and when you when you know that because they photoshopped the pipe out because they didn't want to be associated with pipes for Advertising Standards, but when you know that he has a pipe you can't you realize that's one of the unsettling things about the image that it's it's got a lack of pipe.

Dan Ilic  13:56  
I'm gonna be looking out for the Photoshop pipe. In the next time I drive past the 1000s of durruti billboards

Ben Jenkins  14:02  
you'll crash your car Daniel it's mesmerizing. Diana Do

Dan Ilic  14:05  
you have any ideas for what should go on these billboards we're making around the world?

Diana Nguyen  14:09  
I was thinking like Corey my bush or something helped quarry the bush. Oh.

Lewis Hobba  14:17  
Have you? Have you considered approaching Lara bingle I know that when Scott Morrison was in Hawaii Lara bingo was one of the first and obviously most important people to tweet out where the bloody hell are you Scott Morrison in the bushfires? Which is great stuff from her.

Dan Ilic  14:32  
I reckon really interesting I think Lara

Lewis Hobba  14:35  
bingle you know I think I reckon obviously she's she's got the money now she we can you know we don't need to pay too much. And I reckon she do it I reckon she would do it she seems like they kind of I reckon that would be up her politics

Ben Jenkins  14:48  
All right. I want to pitch something to you guys. I want to pitch something to you guys listening listening. larvae angle on a beautiful beach. reminiscent of the of where the bloody hell Yeah, 2006 way I can find, but it's a beach. That's all it's all it's all ruined by climate change. Okay. There's the waters, the waters yucky man is

Dan Ilic  15:11  
had been Have you been reading? Everyone who's replied to me on Twitter with a teardrop in their name is that reading all right.

Ben Jenkins  15:21  
So she's there and it's not a nice looking beach. And what's that in her hand? It's a beautiful bottle of fat. And the coffee just reads

Unknown Speaker  15:40  
that's a matter for the Queensland Government.

Unknown Speaker  15:42  
I mean, that's a matter for the cranium. That's a matter that all rise with other premiers and Chief Ministers. That's really a question to the premium. That's a matter of I'm happy to take up with the other premiers and Chief Ministers

Dan Ilic  15:52  
a rational fear. Hey, second fit this week. So a report came out on Yahoo News that said that the CIA had planned to Is that a

Lewis Hobba  16:01  
joke and their opponents?

Dan Ilic  16:04  
Well, you know what, here's the thing. Here's the thing, BuzzFeed news is stopped doing news and Yahoo News. So there was a gap and said, We need another ridiculous person to take over the news. Let's be that let's be the new wacky news person but they're doing journalism again. Yahoo's actually doing real journalism. So they had this report that said that the CIA was actively developing plans to kidnap or assassinate WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange during his London Ecuadorian embassy stay. This is very, very strange story. Like this is absolutely zany stuff. This is from the Trump administration. Mike Pompeo, all these guys who benefited from Julian Assange, the leaking material, all of a sudden wanted to kill him. Why was

Ben Jenkins  16:53  
that? Yeah, well, they had the material.

Lewis Hobba  17:05  
Like, I know that killing people isn't funny.

Dan Ilic  17:07  
But no,

Ben Jenkins  17:09  
it is going.

Lewis Hobba  17:11  
It is pretty like can you imagine working in the CIA, it does feel like they get to the seat, they get to assassination pretty quickly, pretty often. And it would be quite fun to be in all of their meetings. And you imagine there's just one guy, he's maybe called Steve. And they're just like, sure, what are we gonna do about what are we gonna do about Julian? And Steve's hand just goes up, and everyone just goes, shoots right? Here come, Steve, what are you What is

Dan Ilic  17:36  
this? I think the best course of action here is to terminate, like, Yeah,

Ben Jenkins  17:40  
we do. Alright, moving on. Secret Santa.

Dan Ilic  17:47  
Santa to

Lewis Hobba  17:48  
say, listening. Anyone else on point? This is the break that comes through. It's like, what should we do with Steve and Steve's? Like, Oh, no.

Dan Ilic  18:01  
I need to be I need to be taken out of the picture.

Ben Jenkins  18:06  
I do get the feeling that there is some assassinations, which really are just to like, let the whoever the writing CIA Steve is set to just get it out of their system so they can get some work done. Oh, yeah.

Dan Ilic  18:18  
I mean, I think this is like when they retire as well. They can have a conversation with someone while I was the guy had to guess. You know, I, I press. I press go on that email. Yeah.

Diana Nguyen  18:28  
I've got like a board of how many numbers of people they've killed, like, you know, like a boy's room?

Dan Ilic  18:35  
Yeah. I really enjoyed this quote from the former counter intelligence officer saying, Yeah, when Trump took office, there was a fundamental change. Nobody, nobody in that crew was going to be too broken up about the First Amendment issues. I was like, well, they got. Trump later was described as saying he was just spitballing. He was actually one.

Ben Jenkins  19:02  
Look, if you're discussing a problem with the CIA, like, you're gonna spit both of them, right.

Lewis Hobba  19:09  
It's like, have we considered running some sort of billion dollar? I don't know, drug importation scheme that we can blame on someone you know, of course, is the classic Should we just kill

Dan Ilic  19:21  
spitballing

Ben Jenkins  19:22  
but it's a classic for a reason. They're

Lewis Hobba  19:24  
also in terms of wacky schemes to do with Assange. Didn't he have a wacky escape plan?

Dan Ilic  19:30  
Oh, yeah, there was rumors that he was going to escape by Russians in Erlangen a van or something right. Yeah.

Lewis Hobba  19:35  
And there was like it was like a classic, a classic sort of Ocean's 11 situation where he was gonna, they were gonna bring in like a package that was gonna be in a really big bag and then he was gonna have to kill him.

Dan Ilic  19:48  
I think they tried that, but the bag had a hole in it. There was a WikiLeaks.

Ben Jenkins  19:55  
Do you remember the footage that that ironically leaked out of the Ecuador. An Embassy of Assange trying to learn to skateboard.

Dan Ilic  20:04  
Didn't Pat Moran doesn't like that as though

Ben Jenkins  20:07  
he could have Yeah, somebody sent him a skateboard. I need

Lewis Hobba  20:10  
to say I said he might break his neck.

Dan Ilic  20:15  
Sir, if we, if we sent him a skateboard, it's a very dangerous, very dangerous.

Ben Jenkins  20:22  
Yeah, it's great. It really reminded me because he's he's just trying it in a room which is quite a small room. And it really reminded me of me trying to learn to skate in my bedroom, but you just can't do like you can't do one wall and then you turn around and do the other one. Yeah, I mean, if you if if what you currently need in your life right now,

Dan Ilic  20:42  
man, I feel so bad. If you feel sorry for people living in the Ecuadorian embassy, and then people below the Chilean embassy, they would have been very annoyed with the sound. Yeah, you know, I always thought like a great escape plan would be because Julian Assange is so iconic. You know, he's an iconic looking man, and you could dress up 1000 people to look like Julian Assange, and swarm the Ecuadorian embassy and then disperse. That's really yeah, it's classic stuff that

Lewis Hobba  21:08  
end in 1000 guys who look like CIA agents, and then you'll never know who killed him.

Unknown Speaker  21:14  
Rational fear

Unknown Speaker  21:15  
we're not going to achieve net zero. In the cafes, dinner parties and wine bars of our inner cities. In

Ben Jenkins  21:21  
Australia trying to go for net zero emissions is like a 10 year old boy who thinks he's Superman and jumps off his parents room. He doesn't have the technology and he's going to fall flat

Unknown Speaker  21:31  
on his face, your fear is rational.

Dan Ilic  21:35  
Next out, this is a warning for people who live in the seat of Fowler an immigrant is moving to your suburb to buy a house. Yes, last week it was announced that Kristina Keneally is moving to Fowler to kick out somebody else so that she can run for the lower house. This is a very strange story she's leaving a perfectly fine senate seat to go to a perfectly hard working Lower House seat like why would Kristina Keneally want to move to the lower house at all die?

Diana Nguyen  22:02  
Well the house is cheaper probably from the northern couple of more houses in the West Couldn't you

Dan Ilic  22:11  
that's true that's true. This is a strange story because you know the labor they're always pretending to be authentic and genuine. And they want to be seen to be doing the right thing by the people that they represent including removing event maize woman from running in that seat with somebody who has never had a connection with that so how do you how do you say as a as someone all that maize heritage How do you feel it

Diana Nguyen  22:37  
I feel a bit redundant. Vietnamese people shouldn't do anything at Australia I think that's what they're trying to say. What it's showing is that there is a kind of tokenism when Asians are needed and I guess with the Labor Party in this case, the Asian female Vietnamese politician was it was a immigrants from America female to represent the lower house so disappointing. disappointing.

Ben Jenkins  23:05  
I did see them trying to sort of like you know, when somebody sort of it's usually happens on Twitter where they sort of try a line out and they're like yeah, that's rubbish sorry. I saw him sort of trying to be like well actually we're talking about to immigrants here quite roundly went Shut the fuck up and they went right

Lewis Hobba  23:27  
we didn't get to assassinations give us that

Dan Ilic  23:31  
like saying alibi even step up and going well, you know, and playing that same line, just like well, you know, she's an immigrant. You know, we got we got to embrace this story.

Ben Jenkins  23:40  
Yeah, it's funny, like, I know why they can't do it. Well, like I know what the conventional wisdom why the convention wizard says I can't do this. But like, it's so funny the way that like, labor especially has to tie themselves in knots to not just say the truth, which is like, this is all factional. And there's like so much shit going on. That's complicated behind the scenes, that this is just how shit works. And it shouldn't work this way. And it's terrible that it works this way. But let's not pretend that that's not how it works. And instead of having to do these like crazy contortions, to make it seem like it's like a just thing. That

Dan Ilic  24:13  
was the real story, Ben, in terms of the senate factions, what happened up in the Senate that meant that Kristina Keneally got booted out Yeah,

Ben Jenkins  24:19  
my understanding is that because of factional maneuvering, she got bumped to the third place in her senate ticket which is not a safe place. So there was actually there was actual danger that she was going to lose her upper house

Dan Ilic  24:30  
seat is that right? We're gonna ask our next guest

Ben Jenkins  24:34  
she got done over in the senate internally from labor and so they're trying to shift it to a to a safer seat in the lower house. Potentially also because she at least might harbor leadership ambitions. And you know, there there are people in the party that really that really writer I mean, I do think that's one of the funny things about this whole story that like, all her defenders are like, well, she's actually an incredibly savvy, political All right and then you look at how she's handled this whole thing and it's like watching someone trying to fix a fucking watch with bricks and that's like it's like oh man if she could bring this like political mouse against the the liberals that should be unstoppable like yeah there's not a lot of skill on on display here even if that's like the mercenary reason you're saying, Oh, we should fuck over this young woman because you know we're getting we're gonna get this incredible heavy hitter in the way that she's conducted herself even like on those terms is an impressive row and

Lewis Hobba  25:30  
Barnaby Joyce was asked about why they weren't going to rein in like the COVID conspiracy theorists. And he says like, Whoa, we need the votes. And yeah, and you were like, Oh, he said it and it caught the whole thing down. Everyone was like, Oh, yeah, okay. I mean, obviously that's right, that makes you

Dan Ilic  25:50  
sad. Is that the same approach that you take to when Barnaby says oh, well, you're gonna say whatever the government says. That's right.

Lewis Hobba  25:58  
Whatever they got in place yeah, that's why he is supporting Barnaby Joyce I think he's right talking giovanelli is

Dan Ilic  26:05  
john angla on the YouTube says media beats up on Canadian vs two ignores the greater problem of gender and diversity in the coalition well this is true the coalition isn't as diverse as labor that's for sure die would you What would you do to increase gender and diversity in the coalition?

Diana Nguyen  26:22  
Well, I think there's a no go for the coalition I'll just say right but I was just gonna say Dan like you've raised all this is money I could run as an independent if you know you could

Dan Ilic  26:34  
this is a great

Diana Nguyen  26:39  
yeah, we could

Dan Ilic  26:41  
say what say Dad I would say do whatever gender run gender run it gets

Diana Nguyen  26:45  
off the Northern Beaches. I would just love to be there.

Ben Jenkins  26:55  
You could there's gonna be a house in Scotland is gonna be available it's only accessible by boat.

Lewis Hobba  27:01  
I I've lived in Sydney for I don't know 10 years I don't know where is Scotland Ireland? pittwater.

Ben Jenkins  27:09  
Scotland Ireland is? Yeah, Tim Pete what it is it is an island it's not in Scotland. So one out of two ain't bad. But yeah, it's it's it's just fairies there and bam.

Dan Ilic  27:21  
You need the new nickname for Scott Morrison is Scotland Ireland because yeah, that's in Scotland.

Lewis Hobba  27:27  
Maybe instead of going to Glasgow for cop 26. You can just go to Scotland I've visited clearly what else? What do you want?

Unknown Speaker  27:36  
a rational fear. The French have always liked to stand a bit aloof from was Anglos. We've never had the kind of intimacy with the French good friends and all that they are. They're not family, a rational fear.

Dan Ilic  27:55  
She's North Sydney's new, independent candidate and it's going to be an exciting race. According to her LinkedIn, she's a successful business operator and NFP, campaigner tenacious, intelligent and compassionate. Well, you know, according to us, that sounds a bit arrogant, don't you think? Please welcome to the podcast Kylie tank. Welcome, Kylie.

Kylea Tink  28:15  
Thanks, Dan. I thought you were gonna tell me it sounds like a dating profile. Actually, I think.

Dan Ilic  28:21  
Well, no, it actually does sound like a dating profile. Anyway, this is your next six months is dating and electorate. How's it going? Has anyone caught your eye?

Kylea Tink  28:30  
I'm actually gonna say it's been a bit of a roller coaster. It's been a hell of a ride, not expecting it to be as amazing as it adds. It has been, you know, we launched only last Saturday. So we're 10 days into a campaign and already we've got, you know, hundreds of people walking around the North Shore electoral in a pink t shirt that says, team Tink, which is kind of bizarre when you're the Tink and you're looking at all these people walking around with your name on them. So it's um, it's actually starting next week, Diana I just wanted to say sorry Dan McKellar is looking for an independent camp. McKellen's up Palm Beach.

Diana Nguyen  29:07  
I'm actually from Melbourne. Hi.

Kylea Tink  29:12  
Christina. From independent as well, which city? I am Ben Ben. Sponsored by fan. Yeah, is that correct? Yeah, that's right. Then I am running for the seat of North Sydney, which is me. Funnily enough on the Northern line.

Dan Ilic  29:31  
Yeah, it's slightly north. Who are you?

Lewis Hobba  29:34  
Who are you taking down Kylie? Who are you hoping to take down?

Kylea Tink  29:37  
I am running against a gentleman called Trent Zimmerman, who is you know actually is a really really nice guy. I've met Trent a number of times he's just seems to have this issue where he's completely ineffective because he's a government backbencher. And so actually has less power than anybody else in the parliamentary system. So he talks one way he is a climate advocate and you know his has spoken a lot about Protecting the Great Barrier Reef, but then when legislation comes up in the house, he actually voted against it. So we've he's a bit confused.

Dan Ilic  30:07  
It's something that a lot of the people in this climate independent movement talk about, they say, you know, well, the good guys are good, but they vote the same way as the bad guys. So Who the hell are you, Kylie? and How dare you try and vote against the good guy?

Kylea Tink  30:20  
Thank you for asking, Dan. That's a good question. Isn't that what Lewis said earlier? Actually, Dan? Well, if you believe the media, according to a newspaper article recently, I'm the problem that the government has, at the moment people like me interview, a little bit tired of waiting for middle aged men to get it right. And so we're deciding to stand up and actually call it out and say that we actually think Australia can be and do better. So if you'd told me 18 months ago, that this was what I would be doing, I would have laughed almost as hard as I've been laughing, listening to you guys waiting to come in. But here I am. And I just couldn't be more on it.

Dan Ilic  31:03  
This is a big ask. And it's an extremely stressful process. How did you come to the conclusion that you wanted to put yourself through this process over the next six months? really seriously,

Kylea Tink  31:14  
I there was a moment for me last September, where our Prime Minister came into the state of New South Wales, and said to the public, if New South Wales would not build a gas fired power station in our state, then the federal government would build it, and they would use federal electronic money to do that. And this kind of ding went off in my head. And I just thought there's something wrong with this, you know, like New South Wales doesn't want it, but the federal government wants to build it, what's going on here. And then the next morning, I heard Mike cannon Brooks from Atlassian, came out and said that the Prime Minister saying that to our country was the equivalent of him going to work the next day and telling all of these programmers, they could only work with an abacus. And it was like, somebody dropped a cat in my lap, I suddenly went, Oh, that makes so much sense. You know, like, this doesn't make business sense. What our Prime Minister wants to do is illogical and irrational. So I think that's when I first decided I had to stand up and say, because I have been a successful businesswoman. Dan, thank you very much. This isn't good business. So yeah, that's when I decided it was time to go into politics.

Dan Ilic  32:22  
That same catalyst is the same for a lot of folks. I mean, this is, in particular, for me, I started to go, what the hell is going on when, during a pandemic, that the group of people that get together, the National COVID, committee commission, get together, and they decide the best way to handle the pandemic is to build a gas pipeline? Like I'm not a doctor, but it doesn't quite make any kind of sense, also, and I was so enraged after six months. And of course, these of course, no, Greg Hunt was looking at his emails in that six months, because he was like, Oh, no, the National COVID committees got it sorted out. But it's just crazy to think that and just really, just, like I

Ben Jenkins  33:03  
say, we try to play out, it's very easy to snipe from the sideline, we

Dan Ilic  33:12  
don't know, we don't know, the gas pipeline can fix it. Yeah, that's true.

Kylea Tink  33:16  
You know, what I think it is, the problem is that we've got, to me that's an approach of, you know, we've got a government that's obsessed with still selling VHS cassettes, when the rest of the world is live streaming or listening to your podcast, you know, like, they just don't seem to want to step into this new century. And that's got multiple issues for us, you know, not only for our, for our kids and their kids in terms of the world that they'll be growing up in environmentally. But economically, Australia stands to get left behind, you know, we should be Excuse me for a minute, but we should be a renewable superpower, we have more natural resources in this country, than any other country on the face of the planet. And yet, we still want to hang on to that little brown rock and pass it backwards and forwards in Parliament. So we can do better. And I think it just takes normal people like us to stand up and say, you know what politics is about the people, not the party. So we're taking it back.

Dan Ilic  34:11  
Carly, tell us a little bit about your history. How did you get to this point, like, how did you get to the point you're like, you know what, I've done enough. I want to ruin my career, and go into politics.

Kylea Tink  34:22  
So I think I'm a born campaigner, actually, Dan. So I'm one of four kids. I grew up in a small country town at Northwest New South Wales called coonabarabran. coonabarabran is very excited because at the last census, their population grew from three set 3000 to 3001. And we got to change the signs as you come into the town. So it's a great little town that hasn't moved a lot. And it has a really strong culture that when you want to get stuff done, you lean in together. You know, that's how we had the tennis courts built. That's how we got the youth center built. So I grew up in an environment where I just knew that if you wanted to make the place better, you just had to find the right group of people to work with to make that happen. So, over my career I've worked in areas as diverse as domestic violence advocacy. I've worked in tobacco control. I've worked in sun protection. I've worked with the HIV AIDS community. I've worked with kids in immigration detention centers and young Australians doing it tough with mental health. I've done a lot of work in Canada you

Dan Ilic  35:19  
sound you sound already you already sound like a young Australians. Do I get tough? Ah, that's correct day. That is good. Good. That's good gear. You'll be doing that on a current affair in no time. I

Kylea Tink  35:29  
had that long before I was. Thank you very much. All right. Yeah. But no, my probably one of my most amazing experiences for I was the CEO at a organization called the McGraw foundation for six years where I went in just after Jane passed away and because I really respected Jane and I wanted to see the idea that she had had come to fruition. And I just had this six year experience of you know, we were five nurses when I went there. And by the time I finished we were 100 nurses, the Sydney pink test had been born and all these things that people said couldn't be done had suddenly been achieved. So I think for me that that's fundamentally what drives me I love that question. Why? And then the extension of it of why not you know, why can't we do it differently? And to me, that's what's pretty amazing about campaigning at the moment Actually, I'm running amazing group of volunteers we're a community organization and we're standing up against some pretty big machines in the form of the parties but people are joining us you know, they they're coming out and saying we want to be counted to so I don't know where this will go honestly, guys, I just think that it's a bit like your billboards if you can do something that disrupts the conversation enough that other people stand up and take notice. I think that's a pretty amazing thing to have the capacity to do so I'm all for your billboards down and if you want to put a billboard in the North Sydney electorate saying we've looked from Ada Zimmerman and can't find Trent anywhere where is he on the environment I will back you into doing that all the way.

Dan Ilic  37:04  
Well, you know, he looked Kylie I technically on the lead to support any candidate, but I am allowed to the right others so you may find you may find billboards but of me attacking transit women, but I won't be able to actually support support you and

Ben Jenkins  37:21  
also also saying, you know, maybe some choice things about a delicious orange beverage.

Dan Ilic  37:28  
Fanta. Hang on, would you believe we lost Lewis for one second? Let me just call him. He had a blackout. Blackout. He's in the car. True story. Lewis did you have to adjust to leave the podcast because we started to get political and you were just worried about losing a job at eBay.

Lewis Hobba  37:49  
Right. This is going to cost me a small amount of money. I've got to go.

Dan Ilic  37:56  
What happened? Where did you go the whole?

Lewis Hobba  37:58  
My father has lost power. I've just been I thought it was misused. But there's a whole three wide blackout. I've just been meeting my neighbors for the first time.

Dan Ilic  38:07  
I tell you what, if Kylie was a professional politician already, she'd say, Well, this is the problem with coal power.

Lewis Hobba  38:18  
I feel nervous. I don't know what I'm going to stream. I've already started deciding based on a coconut going bad. That

Diana Nguyen  38:26  
was mean. That was me last week with the earthquake. I was like, this is it. We're done.

Dan Ilic  38:32  
Well, Kylie, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. And thanks, everyone for joining us. Do you guys have anything to plug Diane? I do want to plug it

Diana Nguyen  38:39  
in, right? Yeah. If you're a snorting fan, I've got a podcast called the snort cast. And if you know Kiana Reeves I'm still chasing him. So please bring him my way.

Dan Ilic  38:50  
And you're also raising money for a climate project who you're raising money for.

Diana Nguyen  38:53  
Climate for change is doing an October fundraiser. They're raising $300,000 and Ambassador one of our ambassadors do Lucy they're actually on live right now they're raising Kobe's 300k. Sorry.

Dan Ilic  39:05  
Excellent. And we are supporting climate change too. We've given them a billboard. So if you want to go to climate change, and and by that billboard, you can decide what goes on it. Ben, do you wanna plug anything

Ben Jenkins  39:15  
I have a podcast called free to get home that I do with with Louis's radio partner, actually, Michael, where we go through classifieds and find ones to talk about I'd say that too bad plug for it, but really, there's no other way of putting it that's the shot.

Dan Ilic  39:32  
Can I say it is a show that does talk as it quite like in the first five minutes incessantly so just be aware of that report is always filled with fans know freedom good home is one of the funniest podcasts in Australia it is an absolute Kak make sure you listen to it. So is the snort cast. And Lewis Sam Do you wanna plug anything you wanna plug like Australia.

Lewis Hobba  39:55  
Candle lamp I'd like to windmill uh huh

Dan Ilic  40:09  
Kylie Tink Kylie, what would you like to plug

Kylea Tink  40:12  
I would like to plug everybody getting up and listening to you guys every week because I think it's good for the soul but also for people to really think about where they stand on the issues that we've had so much fun talking about tonight, you know, these are their big issues and it's our turn to stand up and make the difference when it comes to them. So get involved to get out there and don't just accept the status quo.

Dan Ilic  40:33  
Thank you very much, Kylie. Really appreciate it. Big thanks to rode mics our Patreon supporters Jacob round. Also if you want to support Joe keeper who is keeping us alive head to rational fear.com or Indiegogo or anywhere on social media to find the link to Joe keeper. You know, we've only made 10% of our target for Joe keeper we still need $900,000 today. I want to thank our Patreon supporters, Karen Oregon Courtney James Julie Woods Jeremy shavon Claire Fran Miro, Matthew Damo, Paul Alistair Adam KB, Chris Ks and Claire and Dan ziffer also became a Patreon member this week so big thank you to all those new Patreon members. big thank you to you for listening. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good night. Oh yes. Next week. Listen to Julius amuro. asks, Who cares? That's the first episode

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

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G'day Fearmongers —

This week on the podcast we talk with Craig Reucassel about his new film Big Deal. A documentary about how big corporate money has infiltrated politics in Australia. It's a great chat. See where Big Deal is screening near you.

Also we have great comedians Bec Charlwood (Ladies Guide To Dude Cinema), Aleks Milinkovic, Lewis Hobba and me (Dan Ilic) ripping through the big topics of the week.

• The Tradie Riot that turned from a minor industrial dispute to High-Vis-Australian-History-X.

• How can ScoMo get Emmanuel Macron to return his calls?

• Boris Johnson's call for countries to grow up and deal with climate change but at the same time quoting Kermit The Frog.

As always if you enjoy the podcast please give us a review on Apple podcasts, and keep a look out for our COP26 crowdfunding Campaign.

A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear
📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/
👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE

On the podcast this week we do a shallow dive on the Nuclear Submarine deal, and give it one ping only. 

We release a never before seen internal corporate video from The Liberal Party that shows us how they've fixed their woman problem.

Refuse to go to the Met Gala with Nicki Minaj

Heath Franklin takes us on a tour of all the Picnics he's been to this week.

And we chat with Stephen Horn from South Africa's equivalent of Juice Media — Politically Aweh! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1GT1_L1P0E

Fearmongers:

Heath Franklin
Nina Oyama
Greta Lee Jackson
Lewis Hobba
Dan Ilic
+ An interview with the South African Juice Media "Political Aweh!"

Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.

Dan Ilic  0:04  
Good evening, Lewis.

Lewis Hobba  0:05  
Hello, Daniel. How are you?

Dan Ilic  0:07  
I'm really good. I'm really good. Because earlier this week, I had a bit of a viral hit.

Lewis Hobba  0:13  
I know I saw it on it on every available platform, and I watched it on all of them.

Dan Ilic  0:18  
Did you just say just to make sure it did translated across platform? Yes.

Lewis Hobba  0:23  
Is it shit on Twitter now? still great.

Dan Ilic  0:25  
It's pretty, it's pretty shit on Tick Tock. It has to split up across a couple of clips on Tick Tock. If you didn't see it on Monday, I did my own 11am press conference for COVID and it went viral. Yeah. Now I've done because so many people have seen it. I 250,000 people have seen it. Does this mean I now have to do this every week, Louis.

Lewis Hobba  0:46  
Yeah, I'm afraid so. You have to do it until you get investigated by CAC and then you have to come up with a reason not to.

Dan Ilic  0:54  
I would love for this podcast to somehow make it into like I CAC or set an estimate senate estimates is the one you want.

Lewis Hobba  1:00  
Yeah, there's everyone's been for federal I CAC I want a podcast I CAC I want to drag the whole layout to start with Rogan and work my way down.

Dan Ilic  1:09  
I am wanting to do it again next Monday and the Monday after so but I want to sponsor because so many people have watched it. The next one's gonna be just as good. Like if if you're a sponsor out there with deep pockets and you want to pay to be in my libertarian press conference. drop me a line. Get in my DMS.

Lewis Hobba  1:25  
Yeah, Dan, the new Tick Tock guy. I cannot wait to see you at the next anti Vax conference.

Dan Ilic  1:30  
It's gonna be huge. Yes, the TIC Tock guy, of course, you know, he's got COVID right. him and his father have both got COVID Yeah,

Lewis Hobba  1:39  
it is. I mean, it's one of those like, predictable but sad situations.

Dan Ilic  1:43  
Yeah, if it wasn't so serious, I'd make a whole bunch of jokes about it, but I'm not gonna I hope they are COVID free soon and he can get back to doing what he loves doing best predicting the numbers of COVID I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land in the eora nation sovereignty was never seated, we need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  2:04  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro COMM And section 14 our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.

Dan Ilic  2:18  
Tonight in a landmark deal with the US and UK Australia is set to get nuclear submarines the prime minister said we're at the front of the queue and we should have the summaries by Christmas. And Phil geishas is finally released his findings from the Brittany Higgins sexual assault cover up investigation at the top recommendation is some nuclear submarines. And Scott Morrison has committed Australia to net zero French submarines by 2050. It's the 17th of September and be careful what you shoot at most things in here. Don't react well to bullets. This is a rational fear. irrational fear.

Welcome to rational fear. I'm your host former French Navy contractor Daniel itch and this is the podcast that gives you some floaties as the ship is sinking all around you and tonight we have got some great fear mongers to jump in the water with us. He is famous for impersonating one of Australia's most well known criminals so it's little wonder he is massive in New Zealand. It's the legally funny hate Franklin, get a get a Hey thumb. Have you been missing travelling between New Zealand and Australia to do lots of gigs there?

Heath Franklin  3:29  
I actually missed the first three weeks of Sydney lockdown because I was doing a five week tour of New Zealand. So yeah, coming back here and go from sellout shows to homeschooling.

Dan Ilic  3:41  
As brutal for the Aygo and she's Australia's favourite purveyor of bodily substance based humour on Twitter. But these days she's so busy writing multiple TV shows at once is Nina Yama. Hello, Nina. I mean, you are so busy writing jokes for proper TV shows. Will you ever go back to come jokes on Twitter? Oh,

Nina Oyama  4:00  
well, you don't know what kind of TV shows I'm writing. Dan. Do you know the other day on the TV show that I'm working on which is for Disney. They said there were too many comm jokes. And that wasn't even my episode. Okay, that was someone else's. And we had to do a composite where we took out all the comm references.

Lewis Hobba  4:21  
I didn't even know the Mandalorian could come.

Nina Oyama  4:25  
Yeah, baby Yoda um, he was making snow angels out of the calm it was that we got in a lot of couples so they vetted that, again, not my episodes, so I'm actually not even the most disgusting person in the writers room, which is weird and rare, to be honest.

Dan Ilic  4:39  
I mean, you can imagine Disney would love a bit of come in some of their shows like frozen would be great because he could, you know, make make a serious comment about IVF then that's a great thing to go today, right there.

Lewis Hobba  4:49  
And just before you're coming, let it go.

Dan Ilic  4:55  
And he's the man that people call the Jaime splake of public broadcasting just as funny. Just as smart does the same job but a fraction of the price it's

Lewis Hobba  5:03  
it's actually I wish that would show you but you know what I actually get you know how everyone in like in showbiz, no matter where you are, you always have like you're someone who is a friend but who is a professional enemy. And you're always you always find out that the job he just missed. They got it for me at the moment. I've been getting a lot of jobs that Andy Lee has rejected because it's not enough money. Let me tell you the things here Jax are the most profitable things I've done in my life.

Dan Ilic  5:31  
I'm looking forward to the new show on CHANNEL SEVEN, the 50

Lewis Hobba  5:35  
it's only ABC can afford.

Dan Ilic  5:39  
Wow, excellent. Hey, coming up, we speak to the person behind the South African equivalent of juice media. And we'll ask him what is Afrikaans for shit fuckery. But first, we have a sponsor segment and we have a special guest with us for the first time to talk us through our sponsor segment. Please welcome to irrational fear credibly Jackson. Welcome, Greg. Hey,

Greta Lee-Jackson  6:00  
hi. Hi, Dan. Hi. Hi, everybody. How are you going?

Dan Ilic  6:04  
This is very unusual. I feel like this is turned into like a studio 10 segment where we kind of

Nina Oyama  6:12  
record now which ones

Dan Ilic  6:19  
as well as being one of Australia's funniest comedy performers. You are a corporate video director. And this month, you had to do a job that you never thought you really had to do. What was it? That's right,

Greta Lee-Jackson  6:28  
that's right, you know, in comedy can not really be sustainable sometimes. So you got to dabble in a bit of directing. And a lot of the things are directed corporate videos. So you know, sometimes when a paycheck is involved, you have to work for the enemy dead, you know, if, especially if they're looking for advertising expertise, you know, it's like you like one day you might tweet about how mining is destroying the planet one minute but then you know, Rio Tinto comes along and offers you some coin you're not gonna say no to push their agenda via video.

Dan Ilic  6:56  
But I was just gonna say bhp going Oh, climate, climate sensitive. They want to sponsor this show. We'd be we talked to them.

Nina Oyama  7:02  
They actually maybe I should do the thing that Christian porters during the day, which is just not sponsored, but not talk about it, you know, just say,

Greta Lee-Jackson  7:11  
Fine, you have no idea where it's coming from fair enough. No.

Dan Ilic  7:15  
And great. That actually, that actually ties into your corporate video.

Greta Lee-Jackson  7:18  
Yeah, I just want to share a corporate video I shot earlier in the year. It was a very big deal for the government at the time, but we haven't been able well. I say we they haven't been able to release it for a while because it needed some like legal edits. Like oh, like like, I guess disclaimers needed to be edited in according to legal advice. So it was all aboveboard and now they finally the libs are finally able to release it. And it's pretty exciting stuff now that now that it's all aboveboard, I'm really excited to show you this thing because it's kind of wild with all the disclaimers that were edited in. Yeah, I guess the libs just want to reclaim the female vote that let's just put it that way. Because that's

Nina Oyama  7:56  
not the only thing they want to reclaim that female. I don't even know what that means. That sounds really nothing anyway.

Unknown Speaker  8:05  
In March of 2020, the women of Australia made it clear that they wanted things to change, fed up with the lack of government action when it comes to gendered violence. Many marched to Parliament House to demand the Morison government listen to what they had to say. Well, the good news is we did here's some of the many changes the Morison government made that will benefit all Australian women. When former liberal staffer Brittany Higgins went public about an alleged rape in a ministerial office in 2019. The Prime Minister listens to Brittany

Dan Ilic  8:34  
after his wife clarified it to him using his daughters as a theoretical example,

Unknown Speaker  8:38  
and immediately ordered an inquiry into which members of his office knew about the alleged incident to the right people can be held accountable.

Dan Ilic  8:46  
This report was June June 2021. It has now been suspended before it could be completed due to legal advice.

Unknown Speaker  8:52  
When a historical rape allegation against Christian Porter was made public. He was immediately stood down from his position of Attorney General and leader of the house.

Dan Ilic  9:01  
Christian Porter has been reinstated as acting leader of the house. And in

Unknown Speaker  9:05  
2018, the Morison government commissioned the respected work report, which made 55 recommendations towards how to improve women's safety at work.

Dan Ilic  9:14  
The Morison government voted against 49 of the 55 proposed recommendations including changing workplace laws to ban sexual harassment and for employees to have a duty of care to take meaningful action to prevent sexual harassment from happening.

Unknown Speaker  9:25  
We've caught a gone not gone, the Prime Minister created a new women's task force to tackle these problems. Head on the Morison government looks forward to making the behaviour of blokes like Barnaby Joyce, who resigned from his position as Deputy Prime Minister due to sexual harassment allegations. a thing of the past.

Dan Ilic  9:43  
Barnaby Joyce is once again the deputy prime minister. He's also been appointed to the women's task force

Unknown Speaker  9:49  
because the Morison government looks forward to the future. That's why we're holding the women's summit in September of 2021 with a prime minister will definitely be listening to what them Many speakers will have to

Dan Ilic  10:01  
say Scott Morrison appointed himself as the main speaker the women's summit, Brittney Higgins was invited last minute by third party.

Unknown Speaker  10:08  
Ladies you asked for change and you

Unknown Speaker  10:12  
got it not technically true. The Liberal Party put your blind trust in us supported by Diana

Dan Ilic  10:17  
royal am for rational for your camera. That was very good grettir well

Heath Franklin  10:22  
done some fantastic voicework to

Dan Ilic  10:26  
that pace was actually supported by Dinah Ryle. And she is a fan of irrational fear. And this is the first comedy sketch we've dubbed the irrational fear as part of our joke keeper package. So if you are a person who loves irrational fear, loves the sketches we make you want to see a sketch made that you know, you can't quite articulate how angry you are. Maybe we can do it for you. We've got a team of people to do it. Jump in my DMS throughout the week, and we'll see if we can get you a sketch mode as well. So big thanks to gretta. And big thanks to Diana Ross. That was great. grettir irrational fear

Greta Lee-Jackson  10:59  
is horrible. But we also need to put things into perspective. There are 8 million citizens who don't have a choice in how they spend their free time. That is no way to live.

Dan Ilic  11:08  
Your fear is rational. Alright, this week's first fear now It was announced this week that Australia is getting nuclear submarines a trilateral agreement between America, the UK and Australia. It's called orcas, which Boris Johnson has actually said it's quite an awkward name and I agree it should have been called or sac which is a more appropriate name for a dildo shaped boat filled with seven. Scott Morrison declares that orcas pact is a forever partnership so that nuclear submarines are basically the grownup version of BFF bracelets. The French government expressed complete disappointment. They felt like they were deceived by Australia after Scott Morrison acts the $90 billion submarine contract. Australia cheated us a French official said what are we your spouse

Heath Franklin  11:55  
and then he hits someone nearby with a baguette until they've arrived fell off.

Nina Oyama  12:00  
Then you have to do the accent for the rest of the podcast.

Dan Ilic  12:04  
Jean is a big announcement historically a prenup now that now during these hours,

Nina Oyama  12:08  
there was 16 people on the live stream and now there's 50

Dan Ilic  12:13  
there's actually 18 it's going

Lewis Hobba  12:20  
to complain

Dan Ilic  12:22  
that during these big announcements historically, like presidents have like a habit of bestowing grandiose nicknames upon the leaders. They're meeting like Do you guys remember when george bush met with john Howard and called him the America's deputy sheriff in Asia? Well, Joe Biden also had a nickname for Scott Morrison. This was it.

Unknown Speaker  12:43  
Thank you over to you, Mr. President. Thank you Boris and I want to thank that fella Down Under. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Mr. Prime Minister. I am honoured today to be joined by to America's closest allies Australia United Kingdom

Dan Ilic  13:09  
forgetting Scott Morrison his name now should Australia be offended by this. What do you what do you think fear mongers?

Heath Franklin  13:16  
Let's face it Australia went through a period where we read through Prime Minister's pretty quickly you know what I mean? It was like characters or Game of Thrones. It's like I'll learn their names if they're still around in a few episodes time, you know what I mean? So he's like, just placeholder that's what they do with Australian Prime Minister snatches insert name here has been a great friend of our country for blah blah blah.

Dan Ilic  13:37  
I particularly enjoyed the good on your power. I like the power of the editor. There was a most

Heath Franklin  13:43  
here tussle Scotty Yeah, I'm certainly gonna get all the submarines together to meet up and just touch in with each of them. Somewhere in an ocean somewhere just and then I

Nina Oyama  14:01  
think you think Joe Biden would know Scott Morrison's name because he goes to America quite a lot. He goes to Hawaii whenever anything goes wrong.

Lewis Hobba  14:11  
It did really seem like he just like Scott Morrison just showing him he's really good finger painting of a submarine. It's like,

Heath Franklin  14:19  
yeah, little fella foot down and we're gonna put that on the fridge with the rest of your homework.

Dan Ilic  14:28  
I mean, when you think about a nuclear submarine Nina is the easiest and safest way to get to Hawaii undetected. So this is this is perfect for Scott Morrison.

Heath Franklin  14:35  
Can you imagine how excited he is to have his photo taken on the submarine? all afternoon, Genie Genie Genie I'm gonna get on the submarine. I'm gonna go through the door and the top and I'm gonna get the captain's hat and I'll be the periscope. Summary summary. Just calm down might have a little snooze. Summary In summary, yay.

Dan Ilic  15:00  
This way second fear Nicki Minaj wasn't at the Met Gala because they were only allowed vaccinated people to attend and so she was absolutely furious that she was discriminated against now the vaccine sceptic tweeted to 22 million of her followers. My cousin in Trinidad won't get a vaccine because his friend became impotent and his testicles became swollen. His friend was weeks away from getting married. Now the girl called off the wedding. So just praying to make sure you're comfortable with your decision. Now, I should point out that none of us here on the podcast are doctors but Nina Yama. What do you think is going on here?

Nina Oyama  15:34  
I just love Nicki Minaj. And I love the way she's just a troll. Like she just knows how to stir up controversy. I don't know if you know this. But after she tweeted that, Boris Johnson went on, like into a press conference and basically said he'd never heard of Nicki Minaj. But he'd heard of this other doctor called Nikki I can't remember their last name. And then Nicki Minaj then responded to that with a voice message, imitating a British accent saying that she went to Oxford and is friends with Margaret Thatcher. And it was very funny. Like I just she knows how to respond. I know it's part of our machine, but I'm extremely here for it. The other thing, though, I reckon, aren't going to cousin's best friend is a liar. Because American men will say anything to get out of breaking up with a woman like they don't know how to do it because they don't know how to communicate properly. No offence to everybody in this podcast. So what I reckon I already was like, Oh, it's the vaccine like he was due to marry this woman. And then he was like, no, it's, it's a vaccine. It's made me unable to have children. Sorry. And then that news got back to him. And I just cousin which got back to her.

Heath Franklin  16:38  
So you reckon he's he's two weeks out from the wedding. And he's just panicked. And he's like, I don't want to be here. And he's just got another pair of pants and stuffed it down the front of his pants. She's walked in and being like, What are you up to? And he's like, oh, balls are swollen from?

Nina Oyama  16:56  
Yeah, it's like when he yells want to get rid of boys. And they'll be like, Oh, it's female stuff. It's female stuff. He's like, Oh, my balls as well. You don't want to hear about it.

Lewis Hobba  17:04  
Also, we cut the guy trying to get out of PA.

Nina Oyama  17:07  
Yeah, exactly.

Dan Ilic  17:09  
I'm pretty sure swollen bows are really strong indication of an STD as well. So maybe he was just using that as a slight excuse to get out of the wedding perhaps?

Lewis Hobba  17:18  
Yeah, it definitely like the first comment underneath that was like the most like done. It was like going that guy's got chlamydia. And like, once you start to start seeing that decision tree in reverse, like a guy's engaged, but he has chlamydia. And he hasn't gotten it from his fiance. So he's gotten it from someone else. Now the woman has gone. Why do you have such big balls? And he has two decisions in that moment. One is to say I've cheated on you two weeks before the wedding. Or the other say the vaccine gave me giant balls. Now I don't know this man. I don't know him at all. But I can see a world in which he made the decision that he obviously made in which now Nicki Minaj is telling everyone that chlamydia is COVID

Dan Ilic  17:57  
she's telling 22 million people there are people in in Australia are talking about on the podcast

Nina Oyama  18:03  
started beef with Boris Johnson like she started beef with a world leader. That's next level shit. I'm nothing but respect for my my prime minister, Nicki Minaj.

Lewis Hobba  18:14  
Also, do you say that Trinidad and Tobago released a statement today saying we've literally gone through all of the people who have reported to any medical stuff and no one in Trinidad Tobago has come through with big bowl so this is just this is just made up of

Heath Franklin  18:29  
doctors out there with rules. Everyone

Lewis Hobba  18:35  
that scales with a tiny little scales underneath every man and we can say the balls a normal,

Heath Franklin  18:40  
full blown national ball audit across a

Nina Oyama  18:46  
double check. I will say though the Pfizer vaccine apparently makes your boobs bigger for like six weeks so I was like well maybe that's like what happens to guys is that you just get like a bit of testy cleavage going on. And that like subsides but

Dan Ilic  19:01  
if any testy cleavage was like an appealing thing to kind of show it and flesh out in public you know oh you know you Bowlsby

Nina Oyama  19:10  
normalised testy cleavage you guys know

Heath Franklin  19:15  
normalise being vaccinated and having big balls as well.

Dan Ilic  19:19  
Yeah, you can have big you can have big balls and you can be vaccinated These are two things you can have at the same time Let's not make a mistake here.

Nina Oyama  19:26  
Also isn't having big balls like a good thing like whenever you do something that's like really brave everyone's like Oh, they got big balls. Look the balls on that person that so bit like isn't that a compliment?

Dan Ilic  19:35  
You can look he has big balls. You can call the later of another country little fella. You can do that. She got big balls. Yeah, ironically,

Heath Franklin  19:42  
ironically, lying to your fiance two weeks out from the wedding ism display of tiny little bowls usually

Nina Oyama  19:51  
hidden in this scenario like if you were had big balls, wouldn't they be full of more sperm and therefore make you more fertile. Besides As a job,

Dan Ilic  20:03  
coach, we need to call Anthony Fauci. We need to get him on the line.

Nina Oyama  20:05  
I think Nicki Minaj if you do want to be taken seriously, she should just put a doctor in front of her name because I think like, that's what a lot of rappers do like Dr. Dre, you know, they just make it up just she can do it. This is just so big, just

Unknown Speaker  20:21  
irrational fear. They publicly linked the Coronavirus vaccines to impotence Prime Minister, how concerned are you? I'm not familiar with the work of Nicki Minaj

Unknown Speaker  20:31  
I'm actually British. I was born there. I went to university there. I went to Oxford. You're listening to a rational fear.

Dan Ilic  20:41  
This week's third fear as he said well soars past its 70% first year vaccination target the state was allowed some freedoms including a picnic. Yes. Fully vaccinated people outside of LGA of concern can now gather in groups of five outside and have a picnic. Hey, you banged up for this you bang up for a picnic?

Heath Franklin  21:00  
Oh, I got up me when I was first told by Gladys that our treat was going to be picnics. I was like boo Gladys, picnic sock

Nina Oyama  21:07  
data was like making sorry

Heath Franklin  21:11  
Don't you dare they are the best. I

Nina Oyama  21:13  
prefer a champ.

Heath Franklin  21:15  
After school we all chomp curly whirly double so yeah, the only really Trump combo is started with the curly whirly because it's intense and then come down the curly Willie methadone is always the

Nina Oyama  21:26  
net worth 99 cents and they're like oh my value Oh Dan, you forgot to mention that one of the sponsors of this podcast is is beach big chomp Kelly really combo that anonymous

Dan Ilic  21:40  
I'm actually just rocking like having Haitian dinner on the podcast Lewis and I don't have to do any work this year. I

Lewis Hobba  21:46  
wasn't allowed chocolate as a kid. I don't get any of these references. If you're typing

Heath Franklin  21:50  
Sorry, my mic if you care objects down the line for Yeah,

Lewis Hobba  21:53  
thank you, Kara baguette. Oh, Caribbean non dairy milk as blue chips.

Heath Franklin  21:58  
Delicious. I remember having not clusters.

Nina Oyama  22:04  
Granola is that these

Dan Ilic  22:05  
are all items you could probably have at a picnic case. Would you think this is a fine reward having a picnic? Or is it a bit bullshit?

Heath Franklin  22:14  
Well, I can say at first I was like burgers and picnics are garbage. You're on the ground like a dog, you know? Or you're on a picnic table. And if you're in the middle of the bench have a picnic table. The only way to get out is like backwards like a scuba diver off a boat. Just kind of Hey, and you know there's nowhere to put your drink down. It's like there's the meats too cold. The salads too hot. It sucks. You know, someone spilled passion in the sky. None of it's gone. Right, right. But after about eight weeks lockdown and Sydney I've similar pigments.

Nina Oyama  22:47  
Differently different views of picnics, hate because I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna go I'm gonna like play cards with my friends. We're gonna drink cocktails out of like a picnic basket. Or you're like, I'm like a dog on the ground. With the wrong people.

Heath Franklin  23:03  
Oh, picnics with garbage. But now now. It's like getting a chance to leave the house. I mean to picnics, I'm super into picnics.

Lewis Hobba  23:09  
This Saturday is going to be bananas. Like this is the first Saturday you can have a picnic in Sydney. The weather is looking pretty nice. I've never heard more people know exactly about the weather on a certain day. Everyone's like, it's looking good. It's fighting up. I don't like here's what I would say. If you are a thief, or a robber, or a burglar, Saturday's gonna be your day. No one is going to be in their house from 10am to 8pm. Go and take all those cheap TVs that people bought from Harvey Norman and lock down while you can you can absolutely clear out the entire city of Sydney.

Dan Ilic  23:43  
I've actually paid several young men on Fiverr to go down to open spaces to already pre sit where I could possibly have a picnic. So I'm really looking forward to that going down and you know, taking my pick of the picnic places,

Lewis Hobba  23:59  
huh? Oh, Dan, you're in bond. I and people haven't been following restrictions there anyway, have they? Oh,

Dan Ilic  24:04  
no man. People have been picnicking for Yeah, weeks here. You know, actually outside my window. I can see often people picnicking in the medium strips like they're there. People come out of their houses to have lunch in the median strip. That's what folks do here. Yeah, nature

Nina Oyama  24:18  
is usually where the buyers want to touch some grass. Dan, just let him do it.

Heath Franklin  24:25  
What are you saying we're not allowed to have picnics here because I've been having picnics all week. I've been nowhere

Lewis Hobba  24:30  
on Monday, but this is the first Saturday. Oh yeah,

Heath Franklin  24:33  
no. I work in the arts. I've got nothing else to do. I've been picnicking just everywhere. There's all sorts of picnics I went to I was like one at two picnic blankets already. And then I just had made out of picnic blanket material because I'm tired of carrying them around.

Lewis Hobba  24:49  
Actually such a boon for big blanket. If you're in the game, you get ready to party level on your house.

Dan Ilic  24:55  
Just set a level of convenience side digit level of convenience that verges on genius as

Heath Franklin  24:59  
your bring up a titan company and just buy buy buy buy stocks get into Titan now because it's gonna be messy.

Nina Oyama  25:07  
I feel like all my friends have gotten into crocheting so they've just made their own cute little blankets and they get to show them off and Instagram them and I'm, I'm happy for them, you know?

Heath Franklin  25:16  
save you save your energy for yarn bombing hipsters bow. Wow.

Lewis Hobba  25:21  
The word yarn bombing in a really long time, man back in my day. That was the only war you experienced the great yarn bomb of 20 2010

Dan Ilic  25:32  
went off so slowly. Hey, Sam tillison beatniks that also went on,

Heath Franklin  25:35  
I went to a goth themed picnic. They had a cool table that looks like a coffin. But that turned out to be a funeral. I joined a random picnic. I was in between picnics. So I bought like a big one litre type of hummus as an icebreaker. I just walked up to some strangers. And I said, Hey, it looks like you're a brochure of a picnic and they all cheered and high five me and just slid on here. And then I went out, and I bought a convertible because a car with a roof is just a car. But a car with no roof is a mobile picnic. And so now I can picnic on the way to the picnics. I also tried to share our picnic, but the trolley wheels kept getting caught in the grass. And I ended up burning one of my friends pretty badly with a stack of porn and chive dumplings. I was also getting a lot of three and four person picnics. So I set up an account on Tinder, Grindr and Bumble Just to fill out the numbers. my avatar was a photo of a corner operated barbecue and the profile just said no sex, just picnic stuff. I went to a nitpickers picnic where we set up a picnic and other people's picnics and pointed out all the little things that were wrong with their picnics. Alright, I had a vote on picnic where I met with the other four lions, but we weren't sure of forming Voltron constituted a sixth person. So we just decided to play it safe. But then it was just a bunch of robot lions sitting in a park drinking rose. I

Nina Oyama  26:53  
understand that reference, because I'm not a fucking nerd.

Heath Franklin  26:58  
See you later. You're also not 40 I was having a picnic and I saw a neo nazi picnic close by forming and then an Tifa picnic set up next to them as some sort of like cancer picnic. And I thought this is gonna get really ugly, but it didn't because picnics are very calming down. They're very clean.

Nina Oyama  27:21  
I really thought the payoff was going to be better than that. Hey, waiting to be like, mine camping chair or something.

Heath Franklin  27:40  
These are all saves you guys. Like you know what I mean? to do an old golden slam tribute picnics. Yep. Which is where I went from an English picnic to a French picnic to an Australian picnic to a Japanese picnic to an American picnic. And I just dominated each picnic.

Nina Oyama  27:58  
And then you did it and then you drink out of a trophy.

Dan Ilic  28:01  
Did you do a Shui?

Heath Franklin  28:02  
I didn't do I didn't do a shoe we know that I am but there's only three people that have dominated all five picnics. And I went to a Josh frydenberg job keeper picnic, which was an absolute disaster. He was like I think 40% of the food cost actually the 60% cost a different amount and also very both ancestral shoes because when we look What are you talking about? Josh? You don't even know numbers, you moron. And you can guess it was there I guess it was there. Jerry Harvey Harvey helped himself but then we were like boo, Jerry Yellow Dog put it back. And then I looked over at Specsavers plate, and they had 19 million Australian sausages. Despite posting profits for the designated period, and you wrote

Nina Oyama  28:50  
that it's improvised

Heath Franklin  28:53  
off the time I get it. You've shamed me into not doing it anymore. No.

Lewis Hobba  29:06  
One was a real low I'm sorry. Sorry. Hey, all the rest of the moral highs

Nina Oyama  29:09  
now I'm loving this picnic material more than I love actual picnic material which is taught

Heath Franklin  29:15  
how to have a drink every time you hear the word picnic. That's my advice. By the end of it, you'll be dead and you won't have terrible jokes.

Nina Oyama  29:24  
Oh, come on. Nick he's just barely better that's what I've

Dan Ilic  29:30  
done let Nina bully you. Come on.

Heath Franklin  29:32  
Let's go. I went to a Met Gala picnic. Actually, we couldn't sit down because if it's ridiculous one of my mates put two surfboards in a king single fitted sheet and then got in and then six shot afterwards. One of my other mates winners a letterbox phasmid which is where you see a letterbox you think it's a normal letterbox and then you got to put letters in it and it moves and it turns out it's my brand and dressed as a letterbox. Then I did another another friend who did like a schnitzel origin story costume and lay down it's a mistake and then rolled around of some bread crumbs. And I think it's safe to say that she misunderstood the assignment. And I myself for the Met Gala picnic put myself into a sequence neoprene cowl zone, which was dragged in by a pantomime Pegasus. I also went to a no no core pirate metal album released picnic. If you're

Dan Ilic  30:33  
wondering if you're just joining us, you're listening to the picnic podcast on the picnic Podcast Network. You want us to hate Franklin giving a list of picnics he's been so in the last four days. He's currently been to quite a few if you want to hear check out the podcast or rational fi.com continue hate you

Nina Oyama  30:51  
know he's this does go for four more hours right

Heath Franklin  30:54  
this? Yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking about picnics. I did a lot of research.

Dan Ilic  31:03  
What other techniques have you been to hate?

Heath Franklin  31:05  
Well, as I was actually talking about the Norwegian deathcore pirate metal album release picnic when I was interrupted, which was really scary at first, but actually metal heads are really nice people. And there was a salad there that was quite nice. And I got the recipe

Nina Oyama  31:18  
I went to picnic to I went to a picnic where it was as the only girl and there were the rest of them were all straight guys. And it was called a picnic. It was called the irrational fear podcast.

Heath Franklin  31:36  
I'm sorry. I talked about picnics out a few more but one. To one I had a picnic. Nicki Minaj his cousin's friend. The whole thing thinking I was sitting on a beanbag, but it was not Nicki Minaj his friends. Balls I was sitting on his balls the whole time.

Dan Ilic  32:00  
Oh my God

Heath Franklin  32:01  
just before the way

Nina Oyama  32:02  
and that was the key Minaj picnic

Heath Franklin  32:07  
picnic Minaj tribute ball sec. Pitney

Dan Ilic  32:10  
was there like it was a like a highlight. Did you have your favourite picnic? Because what is the one of the lists that you wanted to share with us?

Heath Franklin  32:16  
That will be good picnics, but like he might offence picnics are more versatile than I first thought. And I've also when I'm scrolling for about a week so I'm losing my mind.

Nina Oyama  32:30  
I actually went to a picnic and I'm the food was all like, jumbled up like it was all like meshed into each other was so crazy. Because it was brought in a total basket case. I'm trying to I'm just trying to bat with the best here.

Heath Franklin  32:48  
See, picnic materials not as easy as

Unknown Speaker  32:57  
this is a rational view.

Dan Ilic  33:00  
This way, one of our Patreon members put a clip on our Discord. And it was a juice media style honest government ad from South Africa. It was really funny. It was informative as about the ways and means that the South African Energy Department go about extracting fossil fuels. It reminded me of another country let's have a listen to it.

Unknown Speaker  33:19  
Come to the country is still planning to build new coal power stations, even though the banks pull financing and the courts often won't get your project started with a bank. Just remember, Nelson Mandela said, it always seems impossible until it's done. We shouldn't have too much trouble here. The simple truth is so that's when people don't really care about climate change. They too busy worrying about wildfires, droughts, dirty air and during cancer. The massive explosion caused a large fire they're giving us a cancer they're giving us all the sicknesses come to a country so in love with coal, it's literally everywhere. charcoal, my favourite flavour the rest of the world would have dirty coal but here in Santee, our coal is clean code because we spin a fairy tale story about how we can capture coal pollution and yes Africa remasters and capturing and get this. People believe it like they believe our excuses about loadshedding even though renewable energy could have solved the problem like this, so don't delay. Call today Come and dig up oil, gas and coal in South Africa and hurry while stocks loss. There isn't much of the country. We haven't sold off yet.

Dan Ilic  34:49  
The God now that was so great, like most of those things in South Africa, you could have just replaced with Australia. I mean, sure. Nelson Mandela. We don't have one of those. You can Replace every shine worn but everything else is pretty similar. It comes from a satirical outfit on YouTube called political our way. It's one of its creators is Steven horn. Welcome to rational fear, Stephen.

Stephen Horn  35:11  
Hi, Dan. Thanks so much for having me. And hi to everyone else.

Dan Ilic  35:14  
It was really great like Naina hate Lewis and I have been making satirical comedy in Australia for 15 years. Or Nina hasn't maybe 1010 years. No,

Nina Oyama  35:25  
no. Little baby in high school making satire.

Dan Ilic  35:33  
And I think the point the point is, like, when you watch a clip like that, like so many things, and then I'm like, Oh, my God, that just could be Australia. Do you? Do you find it funny that there's a country on the other side of the world that is like going through the exact same shit you're going through?

Stephen Horn  35:48  
It's very funny, and it's very relatable as well. I think that it just goes to show how across the board, these politicians aren't taking the climate crisis seriously. So that was that was our vibe is just to throw light on that. And I didn't I might be mistaken. This is just coming to my head right now. Did you guys also have a coal plant that like blew up or something?

Dan Ilic  36:10  
Yeah, in Queensland about six months ago called plant

Stephen Horn  36:15  
that one in our video.

Heath Franklin  36:18  
From the telegraph.

Dan Ilic  36:19  
Yeah, no, it's perfect. Like it was like it was like this. The perfect analogy is like phox, South Africa is just Australia on the other side of the on the other side of the world.

Stephen Horn  36:27  
I guess that's why so many South Africans went to you guys, maybe you guys will start coming here? I don't know. Yeah, I was just gonna say that that power plant that they started when then the dupion consilio are two of the biggest coal power stations in the world that they started building clearly when they already knew that they're going to have to shut them down pretty much once they completed because of the climate change stuff. So they took but they took years and years over. It was I don't know, thumbtack this but it feels like about 10 years overdue, or at least five. And, you know, billions of rands over over budget. And then the week it gets launched, it blows up.

Heath Franklin  37:10  
challenges the challenge especially

Dan Ilic  37:16  
now you sure it wasn't blowing up from an eco terrorists blowing it out? Or is it inside job,

Stephen Horn  37:21  
perhaps they beat the running gag when we were setting up this episode, we're going to have my co writers kg Mojave user is a really well known South African comedian. He just like brought it right back for us as like, you know, like, myself and some of my other colleagues on the show who are like quite close, like climate, you know, conscious He's like, but like, Guys, we have a lot going on here. Like to give some perspective, you know, South Africa is not Australia in in many other respects when it comes to unemployment, poverty, inequality, racial difficulties that still enjoy after apartheid. So you know, gender based violence, there's a lot going on, that's kind of the running theme. So that became a theme we pulled into the video is like, South Africans don't care about climate change, but actually, like we are feeling the effects. So it was playing with that and and kind of like trying to make people also like irritate people enough to go out and protest. It's like, they're not going to share this video, like fact climate change kind of thing.

Lewis Hobba  38:20  
Steven, and I, what is it? What's the like, media coverage of climate change, like in South Africa, because a big problem in Australia is essentially that, like 70% of the news media is dominated by one company, you may have heard of it. It's News Corp, headed by Rupert Murdoch. And they up until a week ago, didn't believe in climate change. And all the papers basically reflected that. Is there any kind of coverage of it in South Africa?

Stephen Horn  38:44  
So there is, it's getting better? It has, it's definitely not anywhere near where it needs to be. Like, given the severity of it, and the fact that our country is heating twice as fast as the planetary average. We've got droughts, we've got all these kinds of issues. I mean, for me, it's soda way. Yeah.

Nina Oyama  39:04  
Feels like this feels like a first date. And we've immediately just started bonding over our shared trauma. Yeah, you guys are closer cuz we're both back.

Heath Franklin  39:17  
Arms reaching across the Indian Ocean touching each other being like, let's go out together.

Stephen Horn  39:24  
We nearly like I live in Cape Town, and we nearly ran out of water like not so long ago. It was like global headlines. And so I can't quite fathom how fast we all sort of moved on from that. Oh, it rained, but will it rain next time?

Dan Ilic  39:37  
Oh, this is this is I think the point where we're at now. You know, two years ago, we had catastrophic bushfires rip through Australia like huge bush Pfizer mill, a billion animals died a billion animals that is tonnes of symbols. And that was many people thought, well, this is going to be the moment where Australians go well, we should probably do something about climate change because it Fact. And regrettably, the COVID pandemic has kind of wiped that off the table for the meantime, but it's still still lives large in people's brains. Most of the people in the elections want to see climate action happen. But there's a lot of institutional things getting in the way of that happening. Do you feel like a lot of people in South Africa want to see climate action?

Stephen Horn  40:18  
I think that we discussed this on a series we did before because we've done climate quite a lot of climate coverage. And we do get this argument that people like going but why are you talking about this? That doesn't seem like a priority. But actually people who don't have a voice rural people who are the majority of the country don't, you know, don't have the necessarily use the language of climate change, but are experiencing the effects. And so we tried to highlight that and on a previous episode, we did we had like the kind of Greta thunberg of South Africa, an amazing young activist called they are committee Topher who told us about her family's like farm, like where she's from in the Eastern Cape where they are struggling to grow food, and like this is real problems happening right now. And so, yeah, I think that South Africans want to see action. But there is an awareness problem. And I again, like like you were talking about the media, we need a lot more media coverage of it.

Heath Franklin  41:14  
Have you guys tried putting chaplains in schools at all?

Stephen Horn  41:20  
We had about eight zero chaplains or something.

Heath Franklin  41:25  
I don't know how many chaplains we need to keep throwing at the problem. But we need more chaplains

Dan Ilic  41:31  
a segue to our shooting shady policies well known in Cape Town that's good. In the clip that I've just played afterwards you talk about this protest. It's going to be happening next week, the uproot the DMR a protest what is that protest all about?

Stephen Horn  41:44  
Yeah, so uproot the DMR is a is a movement that's kind of draws its name. It's inspired by that hashtag uproot the system protests, which are global in nature, and are being, you know, pushed by the global climate climate movement. And so it's like our localised version, which takes aim at the DMR II, which is the Department of mineral resources and energy, and this government department, you guys, you would have seen this, Dan took it upon themselves to kind of retweet our tweet of our video which criticises them for not doing enough about climate change and Mythbusters fake news. So it's essentially like blowing the whole thing up like massively so we're like, thanks, guys.

Dan Ilic  42:29  
They they shared your video and tonnes of people will now know who you are, because of that,

Stephen Horn  42:34  
literally skyrocketing it into the stratosphere. So we're so grateful. But yeah, so that that's

Dan Ilic  42:43  
Taylor retweeted our coal keeper campaign, that would have been great if Angus Taylor retweeted a cold caper campaign to say it's fake news. Congratulations, that's that's you can buy that kind of publicity that takes you ostensibly extensively, your energy minister is an influencer for you. Yes, yes.

Stephen Horn  42:59  
He's on our payroll. And

Dan Ilic  43:04  
now, the idea is that you want to get rid of your enemy energy minister convinced the Prime Minister get rid of the energy minister, is that right? Do you think that is? Is that a possibility of happening at all

Stephen Horn  43:13  
very complicated politics and then against behind the scenes and but you know, our energy minister is is kind of part of the ruling party's top top brass so it's a long shot but that's kind of the point of the campaign is to say to our president sir Rama poza Look, we need green renewable energy clean energy and we need more it's not only just about the energy it's also about kind of a justice aspects and and mining and pot of pot you know, what I thought would interest you as as well hugely on that side of the world is there's a different part of the clip I don't think he showed it but it's it's the three step land extractor process so we invent we have this like product that comes in and it's like, you know, get your Get your copy now. And it's an invitation to fossil fuel companies and mining companies to come and extract resources and fossil fuels here in South Africa, supposedly because we don't care about climate change. And and that that part of the video, that three step process where we show how the government or the the the, the ministry has has kind of almost, you know, colluded or they support these mining interests, you know, so that one area and the wet and the wild coast of South Africa, a beautiful, pristine environment where local communities, you know, want to like they have they have the connections to the land. And they found that as areas and they want to promote ecotourism and that kind of thing. They have been fighting to keep their land, but government's been putting so much pressure to actually push through a mine a titanium sands mining deal with an Australian company called the mineral resources limited. So if you look them up, they are so your mining companies are out there trying to like extract what they can get out of this

Dan Ilic  44:58  
Westerners. This is like a Western Australian miner he's a complete cowboy. He had some time in jail for fraud or something. And now works now has a shell company that works out of out of South Africa to like rip apart rip apart the wild coast of South Africa. Yep,

Lewis Hobba  45:14  
looked at if you start yelling at everyone from Western Australia who's done some prison time, you're gonna be angering a lot of Western Australians.

Stephen Horn  45:23  
Already Yeah, already kind of feeling the heat from some veiled threats from the Ministry. But one of the crazy things is like the one of the crazy things they did is like in South Africa, you have to get our environmental laws are actually quite good. It did, but they don't always get like adhered to. But one of the things is you have to get community buy in, you know, to go ahead with a kind of big project company project in your backyard. And so what is like a parrot lizard, apparently what's happened and what we documented in the video, they literally basked in people from outside the area to come and register themselves as living in that area and voting in favour of the companies like exploit exploitation. So it's kind of crazy stuff like that. And that's why we just knew we had to do this video because there's a lot going wrong that needs to be sorted out.

Dan Ilic  46:11  
Steven, thank you so much. If you want to watch that video, it's gonna be in our show notes or please head over to irrational fear.com and we'll chuck it in the newsletter as well. Good luck with political airway. Thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear.

Stephen Horn  46:24  
away away. Thank you Have a good one.

Dan Ilic  46:26  
Big thanks to all of our guests tonight. Louis harbour ah Franklin Nina Yama or so Gridley Jackson, do you guys want to plug anything hates you wanna plug anything?

Heath Franklin  46:34  
Yeah, I want to plug picnics. Because the thing to do? Get out there get into anyway.

Dan Ilic  46:42  
NATO Yama. What do you wanna plug?

Nina Oyama  46:45  
Ah, um, what question everything. I was on it last week. And it would be nice if he watched it.

Dan Ilic  46:53  
It's a good show. I watched it last night. It's really really funny. Lewis turn up like anything.

Lewis Hobba  46:57  
Nothing from me, dad.

Dan Ilic  46:59  
Steven, what do you what have you?

Stephen Horn  47:01  
I guess just politically aware. So check us out on YouTube and to spell aware which by the way is South African word meaning Hello or acknowledging someone? It's a W eh? politically away? Please subscribe.

Dan Ilic  47:14  
Now Jude juice media has a term of a coin called shit. fuckery is there a is there an Afrikaans version of shit fuckery.

Stephen Horn  47:21  
I had to ask my Afrikaans colleague because I'm not fluent, unfortunately. But he gave me He gave me folker a Afrikaans word for shitters and when I looked at the definition because it's interesting at cactus stock recei is feels like what we have here sometimes which I think is the like a sheet of Christie a caucus. C is a government by the least suitable or competent citizens of a state. That's it you guys so we have

Lewis Hobba  47:56  
a second day.

Dan Ilic  47:59  
We're gonna get married. Big thanks to rug Mike's the Bertha foundation of Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. All of our new Patreon supporters this week Belinda noble from communicators to Claire max Nicholas LAN Michaud, who's running for the Senate Gaya sorry Arnold Maureen Chuck Helen, Lindy Cobb one Danny Peter Webster, Mary Anna Hendren, and some guy named George just signed up off the basis of the 11am press conference. He wants a special shout out the next 11am press conference a big thank you, George. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good not. And what we'll do is I'll leave you with last week's 11am press conference so you can have a listen to it. Thanks a lot. Okay, thank you. Thanks, everyone. Okay, great. First of all, can I say how pleasing it is to hear so many people in this apartment block, yell at apartment number two, for playing Arctic Monkeys do I want to know on loop at 3am last night, it is so pleasing to hear everybody join in with a collective Shut up. That's really important. And please, we want to see more of that behaviour in this apartment block. So thank you for that. As of 8pm last night, we have seen three new episodes of Ted lasso, and two new episodes of what we do in the shadows. Those episodes had already existed in the community and we are just catching up to them now. So what we want to do is be able to see more of those episodes sooner, but we realised there is a limit to how many streaming services people can sign up for. But as a little treat, there will be more episodes of succession for those who persist longer than the two week trial that binge is offering currently. So that's something to look forward to. For everyone that's on being as is a health advice. We have been going to the toilet a lot more often. But please can I just want to remind people if you are doing a number two, please Please close the door after you to avoid airborne contaminants affecting the living space. This is a real issue. So please, please keep that door shut. Okay. For lunch today, it will be a spinach and tuna salad, as is the health advice. I just want to stress here, I just want to stress that it can be tempting to order a Portuguese chicken chilli chips and solo combo from the local shop and have it delivered. But he is he did that's fine in normal times, but it's not conducive to the long term sustainability of someone that's been in lockdown for over 10 weeks. Okay, you just can't keep that up. So tuna and spinach it is today. Now, can I say? On the weekend? We did witness about 12,000 people down at Bondi Beach just a few blocks from here. But the numbers haven't at 9000 those people were from the Daily Mail and Channel Nine taking photos of everyone else. So please, if you do have to go to bond I beg please wear a mask. So you aren't identified by Sydney confidential. Okay. All right now we'll take your questions. I've got some here from Twitter, climate patriot. Why have I never seen you in the same room as Jon Lovitz, and David Mitchell well, climate patriots, this is an offensive question. Okay. And I'm not going to answer it. Okay. Mary wiper. What time does Dan Murphy's open? look across most LGs it's some it's 9am to 8pm. But there are some LG A's that do it differently. So Guilford randwick, North Ryde, you're looking at 10am opening in mosman. It's a different closing time. 7pm. And they do that because you can't trust rich white people. You give them an inch, they take a mile and they build a hedge around that mile and no one's allowed to walk there. Okay. Gary Moore, why do we put an extra x in anti vaxxers? Look, Gary, that was a decision taken at national cabinet. The federal health minister wanted to put three x's in there triple x, as is he's wanting the premiers. We just thought one was enough. So we met halfway. That's one of those. There's two in anti vaxxers. Okay. Hopefully that answers your question. Guido to saldi. What is the philosophical significance of girdles theorems. Look, we I think we all know how good it was a brilliant thinker, but I wasn't a mainstream thinker. He had a lot of gaps. In his theory, it's safe to say his his theories have more gaps than a block of Swiss cheese. So that's that. Wilker last what's for lunch? Like we said in the briefing, spinach and tuna Wilker that is the current plan. Taking the best advice from health there. Okay. Kim Fitzgerald, why is there air? Look him?

The air is here, Kim. Okay. We're committed to air. And can I just stress there are some in the press who say we should get rid of you, you know, get rid of the air get rid of the virus, but that's not going to happen. Okay. Areas necessary for life. And the current advice from health is that we must make err, mandatory. Okay. Thanks, Kim. Peter credit when asked do you scrunch or fold? Look, it is a tough question. And the advice currently is to do whatever you can do in front of you. There is research still being done. Currently, we're doing both we scrunching and folding. But if all you have is the ability to scratch them scrunch. If you're waiting for someone to teach you how to fold, we don't suggest that at all. Stretch now. You can learn to fold later. Okay, now is the time to scratch. Okay? You can't be fussy about scrunching or folding. Alright, Miss Wolfie wolf asks, Are we there yet? No. All right. Thanks very much, everyone. Thanks very much. Thank

Unknown Speaker  53:49  
you.

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Trigger Warning:

• On this week's podcast we discuss in depth Scott Morrison's Are You Okay Day instagram video.

• Comedian and host of the Dead Dad's Society Podcast Mitch Garling talks us through what it's like to be mistaken for COVID19 Crisis Actor.

• Blair Palese also joins us to call bull shit on NewsCorp's promise to do better on climate action.

• We also ask why Greg Hunt couldn't open an email to save his life.

• And rip into Guy Sebastian for his vaccination non-denial denial where he claims “he's not trying to tell people what to put in their bodies”.

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Dan Ilic  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Good evening Lewis. Hello Daniel. How are you? I'm well I'm well and I just want to say a big sorry to Jane Kara who was gonna join us for this show. But she had a computer glitch and can no longer join us. And this is the second time that she's been ousted from irrational fear thanks to computer glitches. I don't know exactly what's going on there.

Lewis Hobba  0:26  
I don't know one doesn't want to hear.

Dan Ilic  0:29  
Someone can't handle the truth Bill Gates can't handle the truth. Hey, Louis, remember when I when I found out that we were on a list of best podcasts in Australia and we were 97 I found out I'm on another list this week. I'm in the in the watch list. I'm in the top 500 most influential tweeters on climate change. I'm between shell and the United States Department of Energy. Do you have any idea where that puts me?

Lewis Hobba  0:59  
Like between 304 137/37

Dan Ilic  1:01  
influential person on Twitter according to coordinate this list slightly above the IPCC and the climate council?

Lewis Hobba  1:14  
Yeah, having you in between those two? I don't know if you've seen that that new KFC burger where they like invert the fillets and the feeling is instead of putting the good things in the middle they put the two chicken fillets as bread and they put the feeling in the middle yes you you're in the middle you're the little bit of lettuce you're the healthy decision as to unhealthy chicken fillets killing the world on the other end.

Dan Ilic  1:38  
That's right and it's you know, on the put it another way, like on the beat you don't want in your chicken burger. Yeah. I thought that was really fun. Hey, I'm recording my end of irrational fear and gadigal land in the yard nation's sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  1:57  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks. Canberra. Fan COMM And section body or rational view recommends listening by image your audience.

Dan Ilic  2:10  
Tonight America asked whoever the last one out of Afghanistan is to please turn out the light and Scott Morrison came to Sydney to give the headline address at the safety for Jenny and the girls brunch summit. And Western Australia records Australia's biggest ever surplus. Even that can't justify $7 flat whites. It's the 10th of September 2021. And we're all out of Kmart plates. This is a rational, irrational

Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former wag Dan Ilic It is great to have your company let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. I I was gonna introduce Jen Kara, but I won't because she's not here. So instead, I'll introduce Blair to laser laser laser is one of the most effective climate activists. She co founded 350 dot org. And she was also at a very special news called function 18 years ago, which we're going to talk about a little later on. Welcome Blair to irrational fear. Thank you. Great to be here. And he's been labelled as a COVID crisis actor. Does this mean he's eligible for best new talent at the Lucky's it's the host of the dead dead society podcast. It is comedian Mitch garling. Mitch, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. You have had quite a wait place. Take Lewis and Blair through it. What happened this week? Well, look,

Unknown Speaker  3:36  
it was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy. First of all, I love the idea about best new talent for the lucky that is great, I will write that down.

Dan Ilic  3:45  
I've got some bad news and leggies has been cancelled the last two years, you know,

Mitch Garling  3:50  
you might have just tried again. Or if maybe if COVID hangs around for a bit longer. I'll go 2022 logos or 2023, something like that. But essentially guys, what happened was is there was a bunch of videos going around of patients in the hospital was filmed and released by New South Wales health that these people that had COVID checking in on them saying, you know, don't obviously don't get it. That's a that's a big one. But it's like just checking in on them really. And apparently one of the guys looked like me. So I started getting a lot of hype. So people people went into my acting star now profile and my name and my Facebook page and ran with it. And yeah, I copped a lot of abuse over the last 10 let's say 10 days now.

Dan Ilic  4:40  
So just just to clarify you're not in a guy called a sama who lives in Western Sydney

Unknown Speaker  4:47  
zero COVID zero sama you know it's not assignment not don't have COVID never had it have been COVID tested twice. I don't know if that if I need to prove that I definitely don't have it and not, not pretending to have it either is the biggest thing, I think.

Dan Ilic  5:08  
I mean, are there any benefits to being labelled as a COVID? crisis activity cost in more COVID crisis things like you know, the boom industry?

Lewis Hobba  5:16  
meaa letting you sign up?

Unknown Speaker  5:20  
I think we get a I think as like, it's a bit of a, what's the word as like a benefit friends of Gladys kind of thing? I think we get out October 16. Instead of Mitch, have

Lewis Hobba  5:32  
you? Have you found out any way to contact the person who you're supposed to have been? No, I haven't. I've

Unknown Speaker  5:38  
literally was thinking about that today. Because now now that things have changed from your piece of shit to you guys should get together. That is actually such a good idea.

Lewis Hobba  5:50  
This is such a weird 2021

Unknown Speaker  5:54  
Yeah, and there's only a certain amount of people that will even appreciate the photo of human eye together. But I'm gonna hit that like that. That group thing. I love it.

Dan Ilic  6:06  
This is a Netflix sitcom. We're waiting to happen. This is great.

Unknown Speaker  6:10  
This is your 20 2021 version of that perfect strangers. We'd like Bronson Pinto. Do you remember that? Like the so now? I've absolutely I thought that was gonna hit. I thought that

Dan Ilic  6:23  
coming up later, we're gonna chat with bear plays about News Corp, and how they moving from a climate change denier to being a climate change action hero but whose benefit before then here's a message from this week's sponsor.

Unknown Speaker  6:35  
There's only one airline that can fly you to vacation in Hawaii while your home is ablaze. There's only one airline that can fly you to discover your family's history on the other side of the world, while families at home are being made history. And there's only one airline to help you secretly see your loved ones in another city when everyone else is only allowed to travel three miles from home. Fly the entitled skies were tone deaf headphones are complimentary. Oh good, are you very good. You're the best Prime Minister ever. The only airline where you don't have to put your seat up if you don't want to, in titled airlines direct flights now available from Canberra to a place where they filmed the White Lotus.

Dan Ilic  7:24  
This week's first fear guy Sebastian apologises for posting a pro vaccination vaccination campaign to his Instagram but refuses to apologise for angels brought me here. I would never tell people what to do when it comes to what they put in their body Sebastian said in an Instagram post. At the same time Sebastian's wife immediately deleted several posts of her own telling people that they should be putting nature's way vitae gummies in their bodies. I don't know I've done my own research here. And according to several sources on the internet nature's way vitae gummies are incredibly delicious. Sophie mangas has guy Sebastian, let us down here, Mitch garling. Look,

Unknown Speaker  7:59  
I'm not sure if he's let us down. as such. I think there seems to be a lot of questions about like everything here. We're talking about guy we're talking about jaws a lot of this. These two seem to be coming up. But the problem that I have is that once again, no one is giving any respect to nosy no one has bought at any point. No one has even asked how he's doing what he thinks. Does he take vitamins? Yeah, we don't know.

Lewis Hobba  8:29  
Yeah, yeah. He's sitting there going. What about me? I was the first thing I did, Mitch, at the moment I saw the guy's Russian story. The first thing I did was go straight to nauset Instagram just to see if he'd made any comment. He's a Instagram is like, genuine pure country dat energy. It's just like he is he is my new truck. He is a roast lamb. He is the shape that I was writing for the last three years before I turned it into this first lamb

Dan Ilic  8:59  
guys video did have a strong kind of hostage feel about it. Like he really felt like he was being held hostage by a whole bunch of his his fans for promoting vaccines. Yeah, I mean, he said in he said in this video, and I think it's interesting. There are personal circumstances that everybody has to consider when it takes the vaccine. So what are these personal circumstances it is so hard to kind of even fathom what those personal circumstances are. Things like belief in science big stuff. Actually, I feel like that's it because he's a large part of his audience are really hugely Christian and there's like all these rumours about about stem cells and foetuses being used in these vaccines. And that's the personal circumstances just say it decide guy put it out there. Exactly. Let us know how crazy you

Blair Palese  9:51  
are. If you're gonna, you know circle around trying to not nail it down one way or the other. You know, the apology after for the apology. The apology seems largely confused at the end of it.

Lewis Hobba  10:04  
It's actually so amazing because he between this and the apology had to make for being like Scott Morrison's, sort of show pony for the announcement of the funding for performing artists. It's now at a point where most Australians are more familiar with these public apologies than his songs.

Dan Ilic  10:22  
Yeah, I really liked I really liked his 920 19 apology. Yeah, he's 2022 apology tour is pretty good.

Lewis Hobba  10:29  
When there's the award for Best compilation of public apologies. He's absolutely going to ramp that in.

Dan Ilic  10:36  
I'm really enjoying what man with the dominant klore on YouTube has said, what happened to not getting advice from some guy on the internet?

Unknown Speaker  10:45  
There's that whole thing going around that he's patient zero anyway, because of the the Instagram photos of him in Wuhan in late 2019.

Dan Ilic  10:55  
Oh my God, is this is this true?

Unknown Speaker  10:58  
Yeah. So it's kind of a it's kind of interesting. Like, I mean, now the now the anti Vax stance kind of makes sense. It's like you don't want to ruin your own work. Yeah, you're not wrong about that video.

Lewis Hobba  11:12  
That photo that this is talking about? Like it's obviously it's incredible. But that the it's so good the captions that he puts on it, uh, so perfect. It's him in we're in Busan. And the caption is, he's like, so great to be here. Beautiful word hon. I showed it ate some strange things. Hashtag big things coming. I did it. Well is incredible. That is incredible. He is patient zero.

Unknown Speaker  11:40  
Wow. irrational fear is horrible. But we also need to put things into perspective. There are 8 million citizens who don't have a choice in how they spend their free time. That is no way to leave. Your fear is irrational.

Dan Ilic  11:53  
Now remember when Scott Morrison and Greg Hahn said that Australia was at the front of the queue when it came to ordering the Pfizer vaccine. Well, linked emails have shown that the Pfizer Pfizer reached out to the government in June last year saying hey, Australia, we've we've got some jabs. Do you want any and then Greg hunt and Scott Morrison rushed to do a deal. Five months later, five months later, in which time the UK in the US got in front of us five months. Now admittedly, it's a bit of a process because Pfizer wanted to be paid in US dollars. So Treasury had to work out just how many commuter car parks I would have to convert to buy the vaccines. See mongers from the front of the queue to the back of the queue. I'm beginning to think that our leaders are not very good at their jobs.

Lewis Hobba  12:41  
What do you think? Well, Dad, I mean, the Liberal Party over the last what 20 years has been very adamant about not wanting cue jumpers in this country. And I do think that you got to give it to them. I really have put their money where their mouth is

Dan Ilic  12:54  
they leading by example. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  12:57  
you can't help but wonder if any normal person had failed that badly at their job. And yet they're still in there. You know, not just one The Little Miss major mistake. 1000 people dead after the next but still in there. No accountability.

Dan Ilic  13:13  
You can't we can't get rid of them. We can't get rid of them for another few months. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  13:17  
the health minister or the health department just comes across as a almost as a bit of a player or they come across as a bit of a fuck boy if I'm being honest. Like if you look at it, it's like, you know, they they got Pfizer interested, they hooked them in. Then they left them on red.

Dan Ilic  13:34  
Now negging now negging Pfizer.

Unknown Speaker  13:38  
And then five months later, they come back when there's no better options, they come back and they're like, where are you at? Like, come on. Now.

Dan Ilic  13:45  
Come on. Just a little prick. Just little prick. Come on. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  13:50  
You have a question mark message at 3am in the morning. He's Pfizer up like that.

Lewis Hobba  13:55  
Their defence is kind of like everyone's a hindsight here or we could all do it and there is like 5% of that that is true. Like I do remember when they were talking about the vaccines and everyone was talking about like one one company is going to make billions of dollars here. And every like non health experts non government experts were everyone was like man, if I've got 100 bucks I'm chucking it in like one medical company here just to say just so no one quite knew who was gonna win. So there is a degree of that like shore in hindsight we didn't know but also the idea of just like not showing up to a meeting with the one of the world's biggest companies when you knew that a vaccine was on the way that 95% of it is so dumb

Dan Ilic  14:37  
pandemic when when that's the that's the bloody job.

Unknown Speaker  14:41  
The only way and you know when you think this would be a good thing, why not throw us some effort at all three and then see which one sticks on the wall?

Lewis Hobba  14:51  
That's actually what they should have done play. It's just gotten a few professional gamblers. We're really did that in Australia. Yeah. Pfizer is in lane one. madona is in lane two. Yeah, just got Bruce McAvennie to call the whole thing would have been gripping.

Dan Ilic  15:06  
Yeah rather set up the National COVID Coordination Committee, which basically started a gas pipeline. They should have just got sportsmen to give them advice. Yeah, looks like guy, you know, I know we're paying them $2.50 AstraZeneca we're paying $1.80 to come through madona coming through and $4 ad

Unknown Speaker  15:27  
considering some of the advice that you can find online. Getting advice about vaccines from an X 40 player is probably Alright, like that's better than getting Tommy's wife or something, which seems to be the thing that happened at the moment.

Lewis Hobba  15:42  
The response from Scott Morrison is like, there's no greater sign that someone has fucked up and hearing a politician say, we're not looking at the past. We're looking at the future. Like you sent a Google Alert for that sentence. Every time someone has said it. Just like

Dan Ilic  15:59  
that person should be fired. Yes,

Lewis Hobba  16:01  
it should be fired. That is a fireable offence that sentence

Unknown Speaker  16:05  
rational fear that's a matter for the Queensland Government. I mean, that's a matter for the premier. That's a matter that all rise with other premiers and Chief Ministers. That's really a question to the brilliant, that's a matter of I'm happy to take up with the other premiers and Chief Ministers a rational theory.

Dan Ilic  16:19  
Now we're going to play Hang on a sec. I'll play a video if you want to chime in simply say, hang on a sec, and I'll stop the tape. This week's Hang on a sec comes from the Prime Minister's Instagram, where he's wishing us all I guess a you okay Day. Happy? Are you okay?

Unknown Speaker  16:33  
Are you okay? Are you okay? Day is that reminder, not just for today, but for every day for us to check, you know each other. We all have those moments, hang on a second. He's

Dan Ilic  16:45  
like really leaning over us in this point of view. Like physically, he is dominating this screen, he is looking down on us like we're a little child asking for some more soup. And in a second, he's going to lock us in a room and send us to our room that's very imposing here.

Unknown Speaker  17:00  
We already started to think the best of him. And now he looks like some sort of like, sleep demon or something just over the top of me.

Dan Ilic  17:07  
I feel like this angle, I feel like I've just been punched by Scott Morrison. And now he's asking me if I'm okay. Like,

Lewis Hobba  17:15  
if you're listening on the podcast, imagine that someone has put a phone on the on a table at probably bellybutton height. And then as has leaned over ominously towards the camera, kind of like a scene from the BFG. And like, This man is about to blow a trumpet of evil dreams into your ear and you're never gonna wake up happy again.

Unknown Speaker  17:37  
Dude like that he got three seconds in before it looked like he definitely checked a script of some sort. Yeah. If you know it's an IU ik de video. Surely, when you say it, okay, for the second time, you're going to be like, I'll remember that. I think I'm going to remember what these sentences about. Like, it's the first Are you okay? You're like, Oh, yeah, he kind of the find that in almost. But it was the second one where I was like, he wrote a check to that just he checked a script. For sure.

Lewis Hobba  18:08  
If he was doing this for ANZAC Day, and on the second day, he'd gone like bland black day, he would have done it.

Unknown Speaker  18:16  
We all have times when we really need someone to ask us that question. Give us that invitation to be able to share how we're feeling. So that can help us get through. So ask today, ask every day, check on your mates, your family, your friends, those you work with. Or sometimes it's just seeing someone who might be in a bit of a stress

Unknown Speaker  18:34  
and you've got Hang on a second. A bit of stress. Let's talk to Brittany Higgins about stress and how she's feeling this week. I'm sure we'll get to that shortly.

Lewis Hobba  18:47  
Yeah, also just going like, you know what it's like when you your family are in a bit of distress. But you separate it from borders. So you just you hire a jet at the taxpayers expense. You pop over and you say your family and you ask them Are you okay? And you should do that every day. I mean, become Prime Minister because it's very easy.

Unknown Speaker  19:08  
You pick that up and just ask them Are you okay? too? We are as a country it's what I like about our UK day it's something very Australian

Dan Ilic  19:17  
no other no other no other people from any other country have ever checked on that the welfare yeah the thing that will Anderson always goes on about mate ship being uniquely Australian the whole principle Oh, there aren't any other countries in the world that have friends that doesn't exist is so uniquely Australian major

Lewis Hobba  19:37  
Spanish a famously solitary people.

Dan Ilic  19:41  
Also like he likes this about you okay? Because it's also something the government doesn't have to pay for.

Unknown Speaker  19:49  
It's also very like, in terms of Australia, like, I know, it's a very serious thing and it's a great thing that it exists but half the people that I know that ever say are you okay like It is it's it's ironic like it's never it's never genuine. So I don't know it's hard to it's hard to to believe this guy when I know he has a history of being not genuine.

Unknown Speaker  20:11  
He pretty much Edison it's hard to believe this guy I could have I could have just stopped there Blair and I mean at least to be fair,

Dan Ilic  20:23  
well, you have to remember the interim is Scott Morrison is an ironic Prime Minister, like everything he's done is basically I run everything, everything from the very start of putting his hand around Malcolm Turnbull before he rolled him to say, Oh, this is my leader. I'm ambitious for him.

Lewis Hobba  20:41  
If Scott Morrison today said, Malcolm Turnbull attacks, thank you okay. That would be the single funniest thing he could ever have.

Dan Ilic  20:55  
Fun, funny and sad at the same time.

Lewis Hobba  21:00  
We shouldn't be a diaper bullying but you would have to give a pass to that.

Dan Ilic  21:03  
I get away with it too. I don't have that number in my phone. But if I did, I'd call him right now to get him on the podcast to find out if Scott Morrison has sent him an IOU Okay, text.

Unknown Speaker  21:13  
I okay, day is the day for Scotty to write some roles that like he could. He could reach out to out to Malcolm or he can wait what was that the guy that he the guy that he stood on his lawn when the guy had just received again? Standing on his lawn and he ruins that guy's lawn? Maybe? Maybe not you like high day text? There might be nice.

Unknown Speaker  21:33  
Having a woman the woman with a goat on the chain dad after the bushfires, we forced him to shake hands with him. Right How are you coping right now? Have you got a house yet? You know, things like that?

Dan Ilic  21:46  
Yeah. Oh, just check in on anyone who's on narrow or Christmas Island.

Lewis Hobba  21:50  
Dan, are you okay? Day is not classically now ruin. It is. It's just it doesn't cross. It doesn't cross the waters like that. Anyway, okay.

Unknown Speaker  22:01  
I hope so. If not, there are people there who can help you. But it's not me.

Lewis Hobba  22:08  
When he asked, Are you okay, and tried and tried all with all of his mind to sound like a human being. It made me feel like the uncanny valley in animation where things are like, to to human to be fake and to fake to be human. It was real. That was the uncanny valley of questions

Unknown Speaker  22:26  
when he said I hope so. It's like, are you okay? I hope so. And it's like, oh, that's Scotty that's so believable. It is it's the was that Mars Attacks. It's the lady with the the the alien the dresses up as the lady in Mars Attacks and tries to fit in and everyone's like, Oh, I think something's off here. That's what is happening right now. I'm sorry that my references a sell off tonight.

Dan Ilic  22:51  
Taxes one of my favourite films of 1998 it was really, really good, really good,

Unknown Speaker  22:55  
you matter a great deal. And so it's important that we know if you're okay.

Dan Ilic  23:01  
That's a bit sinister there. It's important to know if you're okay, that feels like that's coming from the AFP more than anyone else.

Lewis Hobba  23:08  
We've read your emails, we know you're not okay. And we're sending the AFP around to check on you.

Unknown Speaker  23:13  
You're listening to a rational fear.

Unknown Speaker  23:17  
Put back in place, especially with reopening and people going back to pumps and stuff, we will be looking at what contact tracing looks like in the New World Order.

Dan Ilic  23:29  
After years of denying that climate change exists, and constantly backing governments whose sole focus is to extract as much coal as possible out of the ground. The baddies in Australian media, aka News Corp. Going to do an about face at least for a couple of weeks and support net zero by 2050 targets up until about cop 26. And reportedly these editorials are going to be led by friend of the show Joe Hildebrand to find out whether these bullshit or not it's a real privilege to have Blair police here is the managing editor of climate and capital media and is one of the most effective climate campaigners in Australia. And 18 years ago Blair Yeah, you were at an event that was meant to change the game on climate for News Corp forever.

Unknown Speaker  24:18  
Again, 18 years ago, sitting in a in a room with a lot of journalists and others activists, all the activists were invited, of course, pretty cheap lay of the land there not much on offer in terms of cost centre, good coffee, but a big announcement about this thing called one degree. And one degree was all about how to keep the planet at one degree of warming or less and all the things that newscorp was was going to commit to to reduce its emissions. And I remember sitting around next to people and everybody kind of looked at each other saying, Is this a good thing? This is possibly a good thing. These people are evil. Is this a good thing? Come to find out 18 years on Guess what? another announcement this time it's net zero. That's the catchphrase of this century and 2015 or less, by the time, you know, 2050 rolls around, you could pretty much do absolutely excuse the French jack shit, and it would all still sound relevant to net zero by 2050. So, you know, my theory is that News Corp is given lessons to Scotty from announcements about how to use announcements just as a way to keep people slightly off kilter and confused why you continue to trash the planet with more information about climate denial.

Dan Ilic  25:27  
So why are we hearing about it? Now? Why is it being publicised in databases,

Unknown Speaker  25:32  
right, this thing called cup 26, coming up in November meeting, there's one country in the West, that is the ultimate bad guy. And guess what, it's Australia. So I think there's just a little bit of an attempt there to try and paint themselves green. Right in maybe, you know, share drinks on opening day Rupert and Co. With the whole the big kind of big names that are there on the first day, there'll be kings, they'll be queens, there'll be president still be you name it, there'll be there. Rupert probably just wants an invite.

Dan Ilic  26:04  
Is that is that is that as cynical as it gets? Like Rupert, actually, you know, wants to go to Glasgow, in November,

Unknown Speaker  26:10  
probably, you know, the guy hates to miss a big event. buys him space to keep doing exactly what he's doing. Because says one thing does another. He's been doing it for 20 years on climate. So what would change about that?

Dan Ilic  26:25  
Do you think we'll say any kind of movement from news Colbert? Or in in this space as a good actor at all? Absolutely not. Well,

Lewis Hobba  26:34  
he said, Is there any chat like I you The thing about nice copies, like, you know, obviously they they run their own race, and then you'd say it with something like the like the like the Kevin Rudd election, they will come a point where they realise that they can't keep backing a losing horse to publicly and then right at the last minute, just to like, try to keep people on board. They'll make the switch, and they'll be like, Ah, you know what, Kevin Ryan is actually a really good guy. And then six months later, we'll stop

Unknown Speaker  27:01  
to think that rupert murdoch would do that before Scott Morrison, but it's possible.

Lewis Hobba  27:06  
Yeah, but I mean, like, is it? Is there a point where like, 80% of Australians want action on climate change? They're like, there is just a point now where like, the only people who don't want to are currently on staff at Sky News. Well, and the last standing fossil fuel company, yeah. And is there a chance that like, they just realising that they're starting to look so stupid now? Is there any chance of that at all? No. I mean, I, I kind of knew the answer, but I think it bothered me and maybe, maybe it does, I hope for a better world

Unknown Speaker  27:35  
worth noting in the New York Times article that there is a staff member who's quoted about it, who will not be named because fearing for his life, you have to kind of look at it that way. Right? So if on staff, they've analysis, this big thing, and the staff at large are not allowed to say whether they think Well, yeah, it could be good, but might not you know, you could get shot for less at News Corp. So you know, it's not looking good.

Dan Ilic  28:00  
I want you to know, Blair, that is absolute lies because Joe Hildebrand himself has replied to a text when I said when you can come and talk about the climate thing come on irrational fear. Again, he said, Love to love to we're gonna get Joe to random to talk about what he's called. The three articles and East Coast get a right.

Lewis Hobba  28:21  
He didn't say whether it'd be for or against.

Unknown Speaker  28:27  
Other other lines in the New York Times, there's a phrase that said, we're going to change and explore the depths of this very complex issue. Two years ago, the language was, its fraudulent in its a damaging cult, the climate movement, which is it it's hard to know Well, that's

Dan Ilic  28:48  
a lie because nothing in the Daily Telegraph explores in a thing in any depth. Demo just want to extend a Sydney confidential and say Asha Gunzburg with a shirt off. That's all I want. Yeah. Quite frankly, Who wouldn't?

Lewis Hobba  29:01  
I would I bet they've done like a pretty in depth expose I on the Nadia Bartell plate saga. I've been checking. I reckon I would have done a full double page spread every day.

Dan Ilic  29:14  
We're seeing exponential rise in carbon and an exponential rise in the sales of Kmart plates.

Lewis Hobba  29:22  
investigating the climate change effects of cocaine. Yeah,

Dan Ilic  29:25  
I'm more interested in cocaine capture and storage solutions.

Unknown Speaker  29:31  
I'm just hoping that from all of this, perhaps I could get some work as like a climate actor. I don't know if I don't know what the roles are. Like I could, I could play like a slightly deeper bit of water or something. Well, Mitch,

Dan Ilic  29:48  
unfortunately for you News Corp. Who are the climate activists actors who pretend climate change isn't isn't isn't happening is changing their tag. So normally, you could just go walk into Sky News and say oh, Climate change

Lewis Hobba  30:00  
is rubbish. Maybe you should just do a self tape, a self tape audition for a variety of different crisis actor roles. Hello, my name is Mitch galling. I'm here from Star now. My next role will be school shooter. Like Hello, my name is Jolene I'm five foot 10 and now I'm going to do victim of climate change and you know screaming rain as the fire bands just do it just set yourself up for the whole gamut of options look and

Unknown Speaker  30:29  
that will help with range like that will show a lot of range like there's not I don't know how many people in Australia are able to do that kind of contrast of like, I'm I'm water I'm also fine. Like there's different. The great thing about the climate change climate crisis actor is that right now we're all acting method.

Lewis Hobba  30:49  
Really good.

Dan Ilic  30:50  
We are Stanislavski eating this shit.

Lewis Hobba  30:52  
Yeah. Steppenwolf for the climate change play.

Dan Ilic  30:55  
Hey, Louis. And you remember a few months back June when we were performing in Newcastle we imagine what do we like if Alan Jones all of a sudden became a climate action hero and actually started writing articles for endorsing climate action. I'm not saying that irrational fear forced this change from an idea. idea? quite clearly.

Lewis Hobba  31:23  
I can't I really hope to have to see that it's gonna be as natural as Scott Morrison's Are you okay? I think we can all agree that climate pollution is an acute problem. Watching Alan Jones do fit, like talk about getting rid of emissions down. It would be like watching Johnny Depp in the pistoletto video.

Dan Ilic  31:48  
Yes, ah, emissions need to come down. Because, Oh, God, it'd be very hard for him to do very difficult. Blair, you know, you have been doing this for so long. And you have got a good standard show. Right. Thank you. Thank you for all of the work that you've done. For so long. And if you would, in your heart of hearts be generous to News Corp for just one second. That's impossible. You know, what if? What if where they are going to be a good actor? What would it look like to you? Like, what would you like to see them do if if they to make good on this idea that that they've put forward

Unknown Speaker  32:36  
is there is only three things that banner headline across every paper, we were wrong. Movement Murdoch, at the cup opening ceremony, I was wrong. And I sacrificed myself to all the planet or do whatever you must with me. At this point I've done I have no single human has done more damage than I have. So I offer myself up. And that's what I want. I want his hand on the platter.

Dan Ilic  33:11  
onstage at Glasgow say, Hello, I'm drivemode I was wrong. Here's this Tesla charge I'm gonna put it in my chest and let Laughlin run the country

Unknown Speaker  33:22  
got really bad for a second that went from a went from like, I want a print on the front of the newspaper to like, just like a public murder like but but I'm so i'm i'm not saying I'm not

Dan Ilic  33:41  
different a different a different stration martyrdom may with river murder. Climate matter. That's what we like to say. That is it for irrational fear. big thank you to our guests. Bear Blair please Mitch giling. Lewis, how about what would you like to plug folks? mityana plug something?

Unknown Speaker  33:58  
Oh, yeah, thanks for having me on guys. Much appreciated. I'll be not pretending to be a COVID actor for the foreseeable future. And I've got a podcast called dead dad society started. It's like a bit of a therapy group in the form of a podcast, I started it when my dad died. So I just have people on that have lost parents or lost, you know, sisters, brothers, or even just, you know, crazy, crazy things happening in their lives that maybe you might need a bit of therapy. I am not trying to be a therapist in any way. It was more than I just wanted to. I think I was wanted to get my own stuff out and was good to hate people.

Dan Ilic  34:35  
And if you pay on Patreon, that's a whole cheat. That's much cheaper than a therapist. Yeah, it's quite nice, actually the other way round. Out giving Yeah, really. Thank you Mitch. Blair, what would you like to play?

Unknown Speaker  34:50  
Well, climate and capital media, keep an eye it's free to sign up and read what we got going and it tracks the kind of trends on climate and the opportunities. So if you're looking at what What you can do how you can invest and what you need to know about the issue it's all there and with cop coming up now's the time.

Dan Ilic  35:07  
Great Louis Do you want to plug anything?

Lewis Hobba  35:10  
No dad just get out there stream guys Sebastian he's had a rough way.

Dan Ilic  35:16  
Get some nights his way via gummies into your

Lewis Hobba  35:19  
absolute nature's way. The only way really with the

Dan Ilic  35:26  
tagline A big thanks to the bursar foundation of Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline I feel for him he's got to edit this together. Mica from rode mics and a big thank you to Patreon supporters another bumper week of Patreon supporters joining up to enjoy the show. Grandmaster to sweet is back sky King has joined up Darren Nash Curtis Jackson, Stephen Joseph Louise mechel Vogue is joined up a big media consultant who I've worked with in the past comedy director Casey Anning has shot signed. She's a big deal these days I've convinced him to come on the show, Louis. She's gonna come on. I love Casey and Andrew Paddington, and also a brilliant animator and illustrator Adele K. Thomas, who has been a longtime listener on the pod has also signed up if you want to support what we do here at irrational fear, go to patreon.com forward slash a rational fear. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night. Oh, and next week we got hate Franklin, and you know Yama, so come back next week for them.

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Once a month on the A Rational Fear Podcast feed we have a long-form conversation about climate change with climate leaders from all walks of life.

This month Linh Do and Dan Ilic speak with David Pocock about the launch The Cool Down. An open letter of over 400 people in the sports community. all  

The Sport Positive Summit 2021

Every Single Electorate in Australia wants Climate Action.

And our big interview is with Saul Griffith —  Entrepreneur, engineer, scientist, energy, expert, MacArthur Fellow (Genius) and now he's adding on more.

Fed up with the inability of politics to meet the moment of the climate crisis, heading into COP 26,  Saul is trying out a new title Political Heavyweight.

It's an inspiring chat about the possibility and the pathway to electrify everything.

Pre-Order Electrify: An Optimist's Playbook for Our Clean Energy Future.

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Dan Ilic  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Hello, irrational fearlessness Daniel. It's here. This is one of our semi monthly spin off podcast from irrational fear called the greatest moral podcast of our generation. So don't freak out if it sounds a little different. Just enjoy the ride. This is my co host for Bloomberg, longtime climate change industrial complex worker. lindo. Lynn. It's been a while,

Linh Do  0:23  
Dan, it's been so long you've changed in lockdown. What is time?

Dan Ilic  0:28  
I know, my hair is definitely out of control. But thankfully,

Linh Do  0:31  
people can't see us. It's the dream. Otherwise, they could tell that we haven't been outside and you know, months on end, we're looking a little bit pasty.

Dan Ilic  0:40  
That's okay. I live by the beach. So I've got a nice tan about me. Now in this podcast, Lynn and I look at a few climate stories from the previous month and I have a conversation with someone who's doing great work in the climate space. This week's chat is one of my favourites is with one of my heroes, Saul Griffith, who is inventor, scientist, engineer energy nerd. He's writing policy for Biden and trying to get the US and Australia uncouple from fossil fuels and go completely electric with renewables. Do you know much about Saul's work? Lin?

Linh Do  1:08  
Yeah, I do. I don't know if I call him a hero, though. But the work he does is truly amazing. I think you know, one of the coolest things about our semi monthly, you know, again, what is time is that we get to interview super smart people and get them to give us all the answers in a way that's super digestible.

Dan Ilic  1:24  
Yeah, great. And in a second, we're going to be chatting with another one of those kinds of people from wallaby David pokok about his new climate campaign with the sports community, the cooldown, I'm recording my end of the greatest moral podcast of our generation on gadigal Land of the eora nation,

Linh Do  1:38  
and I'm on orangerie Land of the call and people's

Dan Ilic  1:41  
sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show. Despite

Unknown Speaker  1:45  
global warming, our rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.

Unknown Speaker  1:57  
This is called Don't be afraid the heat waves and drought

Unknown Speaker  2:01  
greatest mass extinction tomorrow we're facing a manmade disaster podcast, climate criminals. All of this with global warming and that is a lot of it's a hoax. Book, right. A small roll podcast about generation. For sure.

Dan Ilic  2:22  
Okay, let's rip straight into the climate news. First cab off the rank the cooldown this week, climate activist and former wallaby rugby union superstar David pokok has launched a brand new campaign to get climate action on the agenda of sports loving leaders. Joining us now is David pokok. himself. welcome David. Hi, Dan Lin. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you here. Yeah. Congratulations with the launch of the cooldown. What's the reaction been like so far?

David Pocock  2:49  
Thank you. Yeah, it's it's it's been positive. So far, we've got I think over 360 athletes from 30 plus sports have put their name to this calling for the Australian Government to really up their up their game on climate action. You know, this is something that the majority of Australians are concerned about and want more action. And yeah, I think it's it's everyone's responsibility to be talking about it more and to be pushing for for action at the national level. Yeah, this

Dan Ilic  3:18  
is great. It's like you, you have so many ears and hearts attached to kind of that community, this sports community. It's so great to see them pushing for action themselves as a community. Do you think this will be attractive to these sharks loving Scott Morrison?

David Pocock  3:36  
I hope so. I mean, I think the thing you know, the last 10 years of climate policy in Australia, and just how insanely politicised, it's it's been, I think, we often lose, lose sight of the fact that this is something that's going to affect every aspect of our way of life as Australians, including the sports that we love. And yeah, as an athlete. When you talk about things outside of your, your sport, you open yourself up to all the usual criticism to stay in your lane. You know, shut up, mate, stick to sports,

Dan Ilic  4:13  
literally stay in your lane. Yeah.

David Pocock  4:16  
And, you know, in the face of something like climate change with, you know, worsening extreme weather events, making things life a lot harder. Sport probably isn't the most, it definitely isn't the most important thing. The thing, the thing we're saying is athletes is that, you know, we are people who have families, we have kids, we are part of communities, and we love this country, and we want to see a thriving future, trying to draw the people's attention to the fact that this is going to affect sports and it is already affecting sports, you know, a part of Australian life that people love and as you kind of alluded to, we see we see politicians you Using sport for their game, because they know how much it resonates with us as a country. Yeah,

Linh Do  5:05  
yeah, one of the things that I definitely remember growing up in Australia is, you know, half of the new segment is dedicated to the sport to beat like half of the newspaper, you know, the fact that it's always the sports bit as well. We never spend that much time focusing on climate. What do you think, I guess will be the difference with some of these athletes speaking out about climate to reach new audiences? How do you think that's gonna make hopefully some impact?

David Pocock  5:30  
Yeah, our hope is that it really helps normalise climate action. As I said, it's such a political issue, which shouldn't be, you know, the politics should be about which, you know, policies as a party, you want to get Australia to this sort of netzero future, not whether or not we should get there, or how much it's going to cost. So I think really trying to say to people that as Australians, we love it when we're punching above that weight. You look at the Olympics, the Paralympics, you know, you see Ozzy's winning medals. And we lie.

Dan Ilic  6:07  
Are you trying to say that climate action is a race? David? Can I say that to race?

David Pocock  6:14  
And I'm saying it's a race. And I'm also saying that we're running dead last.

Linh Do  6:19  
Sometimes it feels like we're not even in the race. And I have to admit, I spent a lot of this morning thinking back to the Steven Bradbury moment at the Winter Olympics. And I'm like, well, maybe, maybe, you know, we're about to slip in at some point. Is that going to happen? But

Dan Ilic  6:32  
I don't I think that analogy is terrible. because it implies that all the other stronger countries fall over. And we need

Linh Do  6:41  
to be mercenary.

David Pocock  6:43  
I mean, you're spot on here. This is we're running dead last and we're refusing to even play by the rules. So we all we all know, we need to do better than that. We can do better than that. And that's maybe the other thing that's that's missing from the debate in Australia is you hear politicians talk about are the costs of action. But one note, talking about the cost of inaction, which you know, hard to even comprehend, if you believe scientists, but then also the opportunity for Australia, where the sunniest, windiest country in the world, it's insanity that we aren't a renewable superpower already. Or Well, on our way to becoming that. So I think it's, you know, it requires a real change in mindset around the debate, this is an opportunity for us that we have to take, because, you know, as Australians, we love places like the Great Barrier Reef, and you know, other just incredible parts of this country, the danger,

Dan Ilic  7:46  
even even from a sport focus, Dave, like, you know, kids playing soccer in the middle of the day on a weekend is going to be extremely difficult in a few years, particularly in places like Western Sydney, like it's the heat islands that are going to be attracted around school zones around tarmacs around around playgrounds, like being being a young athlete is going to be harder than ever, like it's going to be so difficult your brain capacity, loses capacity as carbon dioxide fills up the atmosphere like these things, that these things are just going to be really, really hard to do in the future. Like, like, sport has a lot to say like, I don't feel like I don't feel like you have to say much, you know, you can say look for the longevity of our of our of our children's future or the longevity of sport in general. Like we need proper climate action

David Pocock  8:38  
official. One of the one of the guys who's signed the letter and is really leading on this is Pat Cummins are the best fast bowlers in the world.

Dan Ilic  8:49  
He's gonna stand outside and out in the sun for so long.

David Pocock  8:52  
Well, you know, he grew up he got to start playing cricket in Penrith. And you know, scientists are saying that places like Penrith are hitting towards towards 50 degrees Celsius days in summer. Like, try playing a summer sport where you're standing outside all day and 50 degrees Celsius. Yeah,

Dan Ilic  9:11  
in 2018 Penrith was was the hottest city in the world. Yeah.

David Pocock  9:16  
You know, this is this is real, it's here. And, you know, there's a long list of how it's already affecting sport from early retirements of the Australian Open bushfire smoke, forcing a number of events, cancelled, relocated. And then, you know, the thing that probably to your point about kids is probably not front of mind for most people is the effect that this is going to have on regional community. Sport is such an important part of life. You know, it's where people can come together. And we're already starting to see some of those sports clubs, really struggling to afford their premiums which are going up due to flooding. And then in the, you know, in the recent drought, there were a whole whole bunch of regional grounds that were just too hard, like they couldn't water them, they rock hard, they're too dangerous to play. So you can't use those grounds and all these things that we, we, you know, you don't really think about when you hear someone talk about climate change. But you know, the increasingly real and you read the latest IPCC report and you know, the type of action, we have to we have to be upping our game.

Linh Do  10:23  
Yeah, and I think these everyday consequences are just the reminder that sometimes an IPCC report can feel a bit abstract until you boil it down to here's this activity you love doing that you might not be able to do in a couple of years time. What would you say to all of our listeners in terms of how could they may be raised and start this conversation within their communities sport or otherwise? Because you know, it's not the normal thing that people expect anyhow, tips? Well,

David Pocock  10:50  
have you just launched the call down, I'd say you can, you can head to the cooldown of Comdata. You and join and sign alongside your favourite athletes, but then, you know, in a day to day thing, this is something we should be talking about as a community and should be on the news most nights, this is something that we're going to have to adapt to. And, you know, if we if we act really strongly as a country and show some international leadership, we can avoid some of the worst that is to come, should we should we not act? So talk about in your community, and then obviously, the politics, you know, all this individual action doesn't add up too much, unless it's galba. Politics. So get hold of your local politicians. And then you know, we've got an election coming up, vote, like vote for your future vote for the future of your kids find a find a candidate who is going to make decisions in the best interests. And that may be an independent. Yeah. And if there isn't someone, consider rallying around someone or running yourself. This is just it's so important that we we begin to take action soon.

Dan Ilic  11:55  
David, on the political question, will we see in the future national teams not going to the lodge or not going to kirribilli house to spend time with the Prime Minister for a Photoshop with the harbour in the background? Is that something you can see in the back in the future? for national sides deciding to make a call on climate and say, No, we won't, we won't be part of Scott Morrison's photo,

David Pocock  12:17  
we're seeing climates, you know, start to really gain, I guess consciousness around around the world when we look at businesses and climate risk of standard factoring. You know, we, we this really interesting push in the UK around legislating eco side as a crime, you know, to me that really points to people are increasingly going to say, no, that's not that's not good enough. And we aren't going to support or associate ourselves with companies, individuals, leaders, who aren't taking this seriously. So it's it's not unimaginable

Dan Ilic  12:58  
question about your community, you're building and the letter and all the signatures you're getting, what happens next?

David Pocock  13:05  
I guess it at the moment, it's really trying to show support for strong, bold, ambitious climate action in Australia and try and trying to normalise the debate around that. Guess the second thing is trying to push this idea of everyone having to be part of this. Yeah, I think there's been one of the real failures, in my mind of the sort of climate movement or people who want action is there's, there's almost sort of this, this purity tests in a way like if you if you fly, you have no right to be saying that Australia should be committing to Boulder climate action. And you see it like if you ever if you ever post something on social media, trolls,

Dan Ilic  13:51  
troll troll trolls on Twitter saying, oh, how many kids do you have? kids and I can't get off set my car. I can't get off set by electricity. I don't own a house. But if I did, I'd electrify everything. So you know

David Pocock  14:03  
what? So you know, there's that there's your you're not perfect. So how can you even talk about this? Then the other thing is, is like maybe you're just a dumb rugby players probably had way too many concussions? What the hell do you know that? It's really those two things is, is one pushing for good national policy. You don't you don't have to be perfect to do that. And to you don't have to be a climate scientist to want a Livable Future. You've just got to listen to the climate scientists. And you know, what we've seen through COVID is that when we actually listen to these people who've spent their lives trying to understand these things that most of us can't even, you know, get our heads around

Dan Ilic  14:43  
things. That's because we've had to

David Pocock  14:46  
turn out better than if we just ploughing on our own course. So why aren't we listening to climate scientists?

Dan Ilic  14:56  
Well, David, thank you so much for joining us on the greatest model podcast of a generation and Thank you for all the advocacy work that you do for climate and the environment in general and social justice in sport, because it actually has a tangible, meaningful effect. And it's great to see you, you're doing so much, Dan, and thanks for really hearing you bring to it, I really appreciate it. It can be really hard time. So it's great to know, if we're in the same room and asked you to pull my finger. That'd be great.

Unknown Speaker  15:26  
Thanks, David, for you listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation

Dan Ilic  15:33  
pretty interesting when you're facilitating, you know, a whole session on sport and climate in Sport, Sport climate soon, like, what are you bringing to that, that conversation for that conference coming up at the end of September,

Linh Do  15:46  
it's so much of what Dave was sharing, right? We have so much elitism. Unfortunately, in the climate movement. Sometimes you have to be perfect before you can say something, or you need to have three PhDs and all of the different hard science areas. But it's that recognition that the more we talk about, if climate is going to be impacting everyone, then everyone needs to figure out exactly what that means for them, their sector, their community, whatever that looks like. And helping those individuals take action in a way that makes sense. So this sport positive thing actually came out of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, which is the same body that governs the Paris Agreement. And it's that recognition that if you know, if you counted the membership of some sporting clubs around the world that makes up a small country equivalent. So what would happen if you know Manchester United came on and declared a bunch of different climate targets, both for their grounds, the way they operate their team, and you know what they encourage their fan base to do? So I think it's just taking climate a little bit like what we're doing with this podcast right outside of that Walgreens realm.

Dan Ilic  16:52  
Yeah, that's so interesting, because people look up to those brands, they look up to those teams and whatever their teams are doing. Now, they'll they'll also do that as well. That's such great position, like positioning those brands in a place of leadership and climate action is is really powerful. It's, it's not unlike if Australia was a good actor on the world stage and climate. We could also be a leader and encourage others to do good things on climate as well. So

Linh Do  17:19  
yeah, reputation matters. And I think where you lead your reputation and your voice as well, again, it's super important. Again, I think back to do you remember a couple of months ago, runout, I was at a press conference, I think it was and there was a bottle of coke there and

Dan Ilic  17:34  
replaced it with water,

Linh Do  17:36  
with water. And obviously for me, I was like, Oh, my God, it was still a plastic water bottle. But it's that recognition of if you're going to be a top athlete, why would you be promoting that kids essentially drink sugar, and then the impact that that had on, you know, the stock value of Coca Cola for the next, you know, couple of days is just that indicator of the signal that the sports community or other communities could be sending to their fans?

Dan Ilic  18:01  
Well, I want people listening this podcast, I'm drinking a cup of tea, so I can't wait for the stock value of what am i drinking? majority to go up

Linh Do  18:09  
to go? Wow, exactly. Positive brand Association. That's what you are top influencer.

Dan Ilic  18:14  
I think because we had a special guest, we've probably run out of time for the climate news. I think there's one thing we have to do. I think there's one thing we shouldn't mention those the ACF survey, which just came out this week, which is incredible. They found that every single electorate, Australians want climate action, that's amazing. 60% 67% of voters believe the government should be doing more to address climate action, including majority in all 151 National states. This is this is such a huge survey. This is amazing. And it's

Linh Do  18:43  
the narrative that we haven't been hearing, right, we've been hearing that this is something about, you know, regional communities versus inner city like, specific people. But actually, every single community wants climate change, and maybe what action they want looks a little bit different. But the direction that everyone wants to be heading in is definitely the same. We need

Dan Ilic  19:04  
to know the difference between the city and the regionals is negligible. It's like 3% difference like sick, it's in the 60 something's percent it's like so when Michael McCormack or other nationals say, well, you people in the cities, you don't understand what was actually you people on the regions also

Linh Do  19:18  
understand and want more or less exactly the same thing. Um, I think this would be really cool if it could be overlaid with real estate.com You know, when we're browsing property, aspirationally not because we can afford anything, but we can figure out you know, what community should I be living in? If I ever want to spend all of my time changing my neighbor's opinion, or spending time in my little bubble of you know, pro climate action people, this is how I want to live.

Dan Ilic  19:42  
We're all moving to the seat of God. I believe in Australia, which is about the size of Germany. So

Linh Do  19:48  
ya Love it. Love it. Lin.

Dan Ilic  19:51  
I want to talk about cop but we're kind of running out of time this podcast. So let's next month let's talk about cop. And because we'll be about a month out from cop starting. It'd be great to hear from you. Where Australia is heading into into carbon? I think we'll probably know more by then as well,

Linh Do  20:04  
we definitely will. I mean, fingers crossed that it's even going ahead. There's been actually a call over the last couple of weeks that maybe we should postpone the conference. Again, if countries in Europe, particularly emerging economies, the countries that will be most affected by climate change can't be there because of the COVID vaccination rollout situation globally.

Dan Ilic  20:23  
Well, that is a frightening thing to think about. Thanks, Lynn, for joining us again on the greatest moral podcast of a generation. We'll see you next month can't

Linh Do  20:28  
wait.

Dan Ilic  20:30  
And right now we've got Saul griseus great interview I did with him earlier this week. He is an absolute brain and as you can hear, in my interview in your brain taking over as you're catching up, I'm a little bit too excited. I'm a little bit too excited little

Linh Do  20:44  
waiting you fanboy.

Dan Ilic  20:49  
My guest on this episode of The Greatest moral podcast of our generation is Saul Griffith. He's got a lot of titles in his life entrepreneur, engineer, scientist, energy expert, MacArthur Genius Grant winner is now adding one more fed up with the inability of politics to meet the moment of the climate crisis heading into cop 26 soul is trying out a new title, political heavyweight. He's a man fully charged and ready to steamroll his way into any politicians office he can with a unique style of lobbying that can only be described as bad cop bad cop. Soul hopes to shut politicians into action with a big kick in the ass. so gracious. Welcome to the greatest moral podcast of our generation.

Saul Griffith  21:30  
Thank you, Dan, very much. I'm going to excuse you for embarrassing me with the genius comment because that was the best intro I've ever heard. From Polonius.

Dan Ilic  21:42  
Well, man, then my next question is, is it awkward follow up. You know, I've only spoken at once before I've seen you speak to lots of groups in online forums. Dare I say you seem a little dangerous, if not a little unhinged. Is that a fair assessment?

Saul Griffith  21:57  
That's just we've had a pandemic for a little while and the long hair and the beard resembles the unabomber is purely Coronavirus, side

Dan Ilic  22:05  
effect. All right now the audience that listens to irrational fear. They're pretty smart. They've lived with the climate action journey for over a decade. So I want to talk with you about big bold ideas. First of all, I'm kinda want to start off with personal responsibility. You know, in the climate activist world, there's kind of a policing around the language around personal responsibility. There are a lot of folks that say that personal responsibility isn't the problem, the whole notion of the carbon footprint was kind of designed by the fossil fuel industry to kind of put the onus of climate action on the user, are

Saul Griffith  22:36  
they right? I'm very sympathetic to the argument that there was some conspiracy and denial from the big fossil companies, and that it's their fault. But I don't think we should allow ourselves to not understand our role in it. I find it peculiarly interesting that we have divestment campaigns from Peabody coal, or from bhp or from the direct producers of fossil fuels, but we don't have divestment campaigns for Toyota, or Ford. Because they're those corporations. Even though 2% of the world's emissions go through an engine that Toyota built or an engine that Ford built, we don't really want to blame them, because it's just too close to our own personal driveway. So I think the the sort of failing of this logic, can be saying that why draw the boundary at the machine, the machines that dig the fossil fuels up instead of drawing the boundary for the machines that we own, that burn the fossil fuels? That's it, I think it's not easy. It is still today, not easy for an individual person or household to like, have all the solutions and and be a perfect upstanding citizen. But I would like us to recognise that, you know, we just done the numbers for the US and it's very similar in Australia. About 42% of all of our emissions are decisions that are made around our kitchen tables. If you include our small businesses, it's about 65 or 70%. Because around around your kitchen table, you decide what fuel goes in your car, you decide what fuel heats your house, what fuel heats the water in your house for your hot showers, you decide what fuel cooks your food, and you make your similar choices in small businesses, what runs the small business, heating and cooling systems and do they use petrol or electric so we actually have a shocking and surprising amount of power and in some respects, collective responsibility. That's not to blame us all for not making the right decision. Because, again, you have been doing a tonne of this work in the last few years, but like, still not quite economically irrational decision for a household to go fully electric and fully decarbonized you feel have to be in the very wealthy or the Zealot category. This might be it why there's Tesla lovers and Tesla haters, because the Tesla is this solution for the point 1%. The reality in 2021 is it costs you 10 or $20,000. More for the electric car than the gasoline equivalent for a few $100 more for the electric induction and fancy cooked up instead of the natural gas one, that $1,000 more for the electric heat pump heating systems. So as long as I like to think that if you can, if you can afford an Audi or Mercedes, you're playing a fucking hypocrite, because I could just make you could just have buy a Chevy Bolt electric or Toyota electric and, and the other things with the extra 20 grand you spent on your Mercedes. But for the rest of us, it's still a year or two or three away where the electric car production gets big enough that they're cheap enough that the batteries get cheap enough for the side of the house that the solar still gets cheaper and cheaper. But we're right on the cusp now.

Dan Ilic  25:59  
I feel that myself. This year, I bought my first car in 20 years. And I bought a secondhand bought a secondhand car but I was really looking into an Eevee I don't have any garage or any way to plug it in and house. But at the same time I was like well maybe I can get an event you know charge at the Westfield or wherever we're down the beach where I where I live. But still just the price is just maybe 20 grand a little more than what I could afford. But I can feel like this car that I've got now is going to be the last internal combustion

Saul Griffith  26:32  
you definitely want to make bumper stickers that are this is this is my last guzzling piece of shit.

Dan Ilic  26:39  
Let me let me write that down. Do you mind if I put that on the irrational?

Saul Griffith  26:42  
Not at all. I'd also like you to make one that's like my heat pump is hotter than your gasoline.

Dan Ilic  26:50  
One No One says that sincerely sorry.

Saul Griffith  26:53  
But you know the reality now in Australia. I had these numbers yesterday. The it's the upfront cost. That's the problem, which is this is part of the reason I'm trying to get in there and to your point kick political butt is if I was driving a mid sized Australian car right now, at Dollar 50 a litre it's about 12 cents a kilometre. In the if I did an Eevee a mid sized Evie. Charged off the electricity grid test cost me about seven cents a kilometre. And if I was charging that, Evie off my rooftop solar, it's one or two cents a kilometre. So you would get that money back, it will just take you five years. So what we really need is financial instruments to help everyone afford this future. And that's the type of thing that you need federal governments to help with.

Dan Ilic  27:47  
And this is nothing new, like federal governments have been doing this for things in the past.

Saul Griffith  27:50  
Oh, absolutely. You know, and the one way of looking at this for an economy is this giant real estate, one of these games, because we have such explicit economic policy focused around on helping people afford the suburban everything. The house, the home, and we sort of around writing all their mortgages that has precedent that was actually really began, curiously enough under Franklin D. Roosevelt, when the Great Depression had caused 20% unemployment in the US in the 1930s. Much the majority of the jobs were lost in the regions and they were construction jobs that were lost. And they realised they needed a stimulus package that would put people back to work in the States. So the US federal government invented the 25 year mortgage, it wasn't the thing before then before that the reason a lot of people lost their homes in the Great Depression is they had a five year mortgage with a balloon payment. When you get to the end of the five years, you either had to come up with all the money or renegotiate. So everyone lost their money, lost their homes, because and that was a great scam if your brain scan anyway. Imagine like, I actually think about it this way we think about great inventions of the 20th century and how much they change their life.

Dan Ilic  29:09  
No one ever talks about the mortgage,

Saul Griffith  29:10  
the mortgage, like changed, everything changed the patterns of urban development. And so is the whole thing how we do schools, like everything was on it. And actually, the more even more interesting piece of that history is that it was based on the car loan that was invented by a guy called Alfred P. Sloan. Because Henry Ford was very religiously conservative and didn't believe in usury or charging interest on your car. So you had to buy your gold on. You had to give Henry Ford your paycheck for 18 months and then he'd give you the car. Right Alfred Sloan came along said Well, I know you want the car today, why don't you just give me your paycheck for the next 18 months. And GM after that went from 10% market share that's 60% market share over forward in like three years. It's completely flipped the market. And it was that model of you know buy now. Pay Later that that became the the model of the interest rate in the US. Basically that means that the US government is subsidising and giving infrastructure quality financing to the household. So the suburbs are infrastructure. So we need that kind of thinking because we've got to upgrade all of our homes to decarbonize.

Dan Ilic  30:22  
Now it sounds, it sounds like we're really close, it sounds like there's like only a few years in it in terms of when decarbonizing our homes is going to be more expensive than it becomes the only kind of option because it's far less expensive. How long is that runway? Like how long have we got before the tipping point is where we're putting in sustainable homes becomes much more efficient, much more cost effective than the business as usual,

Saul Griffith  30:47  
the really interesting political problem of your question is, it's a little bit longer than the timeline, we have to keep our global temperature on it to you, there's an easy way to say that there's a concept in academia called committed emissions. That is, you bought a car last year, you just told me that car will emit it has a committed emissions for next 20 years is burns petrol, somebody who bought a natural gas power plant last year, that power plant will commit emissions for 35 years, etc, etc. The machines that exist on the face of the world today will emit enough carbon to take us to 1.8 degrees. So that's why you hear people say we should retire cold early, because they're the worst emitters. And maybe that'll bring us down to 1.7 or 1.6. You still end up in this situation where starting tomorrow, no one can ever buy. petrol or diesel car, again, instal coal plant natural gas, if you want to stay on that very rapid path for one and a half ish degrees, so that obviously we you know, the world only created about 2% of the vehicles last year were electric, that's not nearly enough, right? That's not 100%. Because we want everyone to buy an electric car tomorrow, the industry isn't even at scale,

Dan Ilic  32:07  
we're stuck straight, like it needs to happen, strategies

Saul Griffith  32:10  
haven't straight away, but at best with a wartime level of effort. And that's like really heavily investing in our industries to make all the solutions you can imagine maybe it's starting in about 2024 2025, like, we spent three or four years really full on.

Dan Ilic  32:25  
Great. So all we need is like another six more catastrophic weather events to get us engaged into doing something great.

Saul Griffith  32:33  
What I'm trying to say is like, but now that you can see that the economic shift, in the end, we really think about Australia as if I could loan you the money in 2022, or 2023, to buy the two, two electric vehicles to replace the two cars in your driveway, electric heat pumps, your hate electric heat pump, water heaters solar roof, a big one battery on the side of your house, you would be saving a few $1,000 a year on all your energy costs. But I'd have to loan you at that point 30 $40,000 more than you'd otherwise be spending to do it. The crossover point where it's cheaper at like, not only when you're using it that when you go into the store to buy it is probably more like 2027 2028 we wait until then we've blown through too many emissions to hit any of the targets you want.

Dan Ilic  33:24  
So a lot of folks who kind of criticise your work, they kind of say, well, masks is fine. But the reality on the ground in terms of politics is different. How does that change? So how can you see that changing?

Saul Griffith  33:41  
Well, I think you don't change reality. And still you start changing the storyline and you start using some characters as well as sticks, right? And we've really only had the stick narrative for what to do on climate for the last 50 years, which is stop this stop that no, and largely it sounds like we're gonna rip your middle class existence away from you, and you'll live in a cold, small house with a bicycle?

Dan Ilic  34:07  
Well, it just depends where that house is, if it's in Sydney, I think I could live with that, that'd be fine.

Saul Griffith  34:15  
I don't think that's going to work for everyone. So I think you can now tell with a reasonably straight face that, you know, we should be able to give people an even better existence they have now with cleaner air by largely just substituting out electric machines for Walker fuel burning machines and for riding with electricity. So now governments have an optimistic story that they can tell. And you can show that it's going to create more jobs than it destroys by a big margin and you can share now that the economics are going to work for the house the now the economics may not work in 2021, but they're going to work in 2025 if we make the right policy choices now. So you got to got to we need genuine leadership in the in the tradition of like what political leadership really means.

Dan Ilic  34:59  
Okay, All right. Don't get too excited about leadership.

Saul Griffith  35:04  
What? You know, if you have no hope you can have no hope you have, you have to try and lead these horses to water and help them discover that leadership for themselves.

Dan Ilic  35:16  
You're in Australia has been living in America for 25 years. Is that really? What's it like to kind of come back to Australia and be kind of around this kind of leadership we have here versus the Biden administration from I know, I understand you doing some work for at the moment? What's that? What's that kind of disconnect? Like,

Saul Griffith  35:33  
you have to also understand that I went through two Bush administration's and a Trump and Trump administration. Yeah. I'm sympathetic to republicans and some of their traditional conservative ideals, but I'm not sympathetic to crazy unwarranted wars, and whatever trumpism is,

Dan Ilic  35:52  
I believe Trump ism is a policy based on names.

Saul Griffith  35:55  
I mean, that's, I think politically, I'm saying I'm probably a centrist swing voter, to come back to Australia, it a few things, it strikes me that it's way more corrupt here than it was when I left 20 years ago. That is, like just as shocking, the nepotism seems to have been dialled way up, or maybe because I left when I was 19, or 20. I just wasn't old enough to be the benefit of a lot of nepotism yet, but I'm sort of I'm seeing it now. I'm a bit worried about the trend. For sure, we seem to have gotten the civil service. And so I think we used to have a really strong civil service here that really believed in the country and and what was best for the country. And I think we've eliminated a lot of those institutions. That gives me pause for concern. I think the best best government happens when they are well advised by unbiased independent organisations. And I think that's historically what the Australian civil service did on climate I think were doing terribly across the board. So I don't have to point a finger at any particular party here. No one's doing a great job. I am helping the White House and the buyer administration on as I describe it, hand to hand combat with the natural gas industry and and trying to figure out what climate policy you can do. And so I've been watching from the inside a lot of the the three and a half trillion dollar spending bill and the trillion dollar infrastructure bill and watch that sausage get made have introduced electrification legislation with Senator Martin Heinrich and have been doing work with Senator Sanders and Schumer just really helping them with the numbers and making that up and what sensible policy having seen it from the inside the US the collection of Biden policy is not yet sufficiently ambitious to avoid two degrees. So you'll hear a whole bunch of announcements and everyone will declare success but as an engineer and climate nerd, I can add up the math and the commandments are not yet commensurate with the reality but it's a huge step and then ambition brings more ambition. So here's the thing and we helped the the this administration alone, like we are on the cusp of this transition where the economics get better on the good side on the on the Luke Skywalker side and they get worse on the Darth Vader side. The fascinating about Australia is we win first week, the be the luckiest country if only we wish to be the cleverest country. We have the mildest climate we have compared to the US we have high cost of retail electricity we have high cost of petrol we have high cost of natural gas that's basically because very big small population big countries spread out or geographic displacement

Dan Ilic  38:51  
of everyone so

Saul Griffith  38:52  
and then we've already Wait You know, if you wanted roughly that what ROMs was success you'd you need this country to exist Australian rooftop solar policy, Norwegian or Californian electric vehicle policy, and South Korean or German building heating policy heat very heat pump centric. If you could create that country that country wins. And so as Australia at least as one out of three, if these other two we would you know shooting competitor like five years before America, we would we can do it. And we

Dan Ilic  39:30  
what's what's preventing those other two what is like absolutely preventing, you know, he pump policy and car policy as

Saul Griffith  39:37  
well that he policy is pretty good everywhere here except for Victoria, who were really clean to natural gas for heating homes, that there are even state programmes in Victoria that are improving so I think we're totally trending in the right direction. The Australian vernacular building vernacular embraces what's called a mini split system which is a reversible it can heat your house, it can cool your house It's economic. So we kind of on the right track. There, we just need to make sure that we never let a new home be warmed, painted with natural gas going all the way electrically on electric vehicles. I think its culture was fragile white male egos, and just the lack of visceral experience of electric cars that is screwing our electric vehicle policy but

Dan Ilic  40:26  
so well, if if we haven't if I have an electric car, it'll ruin the weekend. I'll have no more way. If you don't have an electric car, you'll ruin all weekends. Reva in perpetuity Yeah.

Saul Griffith  40:39  
But yeah, I've now owning my fifth electric car. And I own four in the US I bought a used Nissen in dV 200 which is like a Nissan LEAF extruded upwards as a as a minivan. It's obviously six sexy car and I love it. When we drop it. It's dropped them in school in it because it was a like a showroom demonstrators as a giant electrical plug on the side. The trauma isn't on my shoulders. I

Dan Ilic  41:09  
mean, this is this is your kids, where they go to school in San Francisco

Saul Griffith  41:13  
Bay, like here in Austin. In America, we had like the first few electric cars we had could barely do 100 miles and that was an inconvenience. And occasionally we'd be stranded by a highway. But like the last electric car we had in the US was a Chevy Bolt that we leased. It was extraordinarily cheap to own and operate. It had a 290 mile range, which is 450 kilometres ish. And we never even went close to exhausting the battery. We could drive to the mountains go skiing. So the future has arrived. We just haven't let it arrive in Australia. And I don't think enough people would have had the experience. I love this guy on the internet. There is like taking coal miners for drag races. And then Tesla.

Dan Ilic  42:00  
Daniel Blakely, he's been on the show, we've had him on irrational. You can. Daniel, thank you. You're doing God's work. He'll be pleased to hear that he should dress or asked me to take you for a ride when locked down?

Saul Griffith  42:11  
Absolutely. You know, well, actually, he's a curious thing. So I'm actually totally I speak carburetors a native tongue and like I sort of part of me, black belongs at summernats. So I'm a little sympathetic to this. I earned some pretty cool vintage cars. There in America. And in Australia, it's the same the putting a battery on the side of your house is enormously expensive, because you have to pay the permanent costs and the regulatory costs and it has to be fireproof, and all that stuff. And so you're spending 13 $100 a kilowatt hour for 10 kilowatt hour battery. So it's like $15,000 for this thing. I can buy a $15,000 battery and put it in my 1916 one Lincoln con continental and we'll have five times the capacity of the battery on my house to house so I'm really into this idea that your luck your your vintage Hot Rod toys,

Dan Ilic  43:01  
becomes the better

Saul Griffith  43:02  
Yeah, even better in Australia is like, Yeah, and I live near the coast and like everyone in Australia since I left has bought a jet ski. And I hate jet skis, I have my father's philosophy that jet skis should be absolutely legal, you're just not allowed to turn them on until you're a mile off. Sure. Because the noise is intolerable. But electric jetski turns out to do an hour of full throttle, which is what you can do with their 10 when they've got about a 40 litre gas tank, it native data 100 kilowatt hour battery, which would be about a $12,000 battery. But then your jetski is your house all battery all your toys become your thing.

Dan Ilic  43:42  
This is a dis absolutely genius idea for getting around regulatory red tape. It's fantastic. And if any, if anyone's like my brothers, they've got a jetski, a motorbike, a second car all sit in the garage doing nothing if put batteries and all those

Saul Griffith  43:58  
geeky powers. See you then take the battery out from the budget for the household, which is like the practical budget which is fine. Yeah. And you get to put it in the toy budget which is irrational.

Dan Ilic  44:13  
Alright, so we spoke a little bit about your two different approaches, you know, the the political approach. Let's talk about the bottom up approach. Like you told me we were talking about these people now want to talk about middle class parents who've got a house and have got all the toys. What would you say to them about kind of their own personal responsibility? What should they be looking at to kind of get on this electrification chain training? I

Saul Griffith  44:35  
think a little bit of this question we answered earlier like what is the schedule you have to do this? I think we imagine that we all have to be perfect tomorrow. Right? But what none of us can be perfect tomorrow. And the average water heater lasts about 12 years the average heating system split system last 15 years the average car last 20 years in your driveway. You know Your average roof last 20 years. And so I don't, I don't think we need to be incapacitated with guilt, we just need to understand that we should be preparing and saving our money. So every time we make one of those consequential infrastructure of your life decisions, and there's a small number of them, were ready to do it electrically. Or if you're about to buy a new house, take out a little bit of extra on the mortgage and retrofit that house. So it's all electric at that moment. And that's how you'll get the cheapest finance and you'll be on the right path. So I think it's, you know, for the average punter, it's recognising that you are part of the politics. If you ask the government collectively, to help enable this, the government will make the regulations make the costs drop, the government will help the industries expand, they're making the right things and the contract the ones that mean the wrong things. So become political. And then prepare to just make sure you know that the bumper stickers are all true. My heat pump is better than your furnace. My This is my last petrol powered car and prepare to like retire them. No, no, no, the

Dan Ilic  46:09  
bumper sticker is this is my last gas guzzling piece of shit. That's what I used to speak carburetor. Now

Saul Griffith  46:14  
I speak electrons, volts. Yeah. And I think that's, I think he got it said the expectations are reasonable. And you probably won't get every household on that plan. But you know, if we do realistically need to get 80 90% of households on that plan, the challenge for that really, is not so much for the top 20 30% of households that will be able to afford it. There's enough disposable income. I think, if you're really honest, the big, big hard problem here is, you know, the low and middle income homes where it's a real stretch, they're going to need and they probably don't have perfect credit scores, etc, etc. So I don't really see a solution other than the government stepping in to help with various finance products and rebates and incentives to help everyone get there because it's the it'll be the ultimate issue if only the richest 20% of people can afford this solution. So the political risk is we'll make it a wedge issue, the political opportunity is for the party that figures out the right set of policies, the electorate will go there because it means they're going to have cleaner air in their house, they're going to have cleaner air in the suburbs, they'll have safer children now. And you know, the future will be saved the week all over the weekends.

Dan Ilic  47:33  
Well, the Australian Government is very well renowned for giving money to poor people and never asking for it back. So I think I think I think it'll be totally fine with this government.

Saul Griffith  47:45  
Yeah, I think, always a challenge to the storyline here. And it's just the fundamental chain challenge for the solutions to climate change. They they all cost less to operate in their lifetime, but they all cost more upfront. That's why you have to figure out institutionalised systems for making affordable for everyone. And that's why I gave you those analogies that the car loan and the home loan.

Dan Ilic  48:07  
Let's talk about grids for a second Professor Hilary bambrick. On my patreon asks, so many barriers are put up against residential including proposals to introduce feed in tariffs. Do you think suburban micro grids are the way to go instead? if so how can we get there? residential solar, she's talking about

Saul Griffith  48:24  
you even more than residential solar. So imagine that I electrify your home professor, and very likely you go from using, again, I actually have the numbers at my fingertips, about 13 to 14 kilowatt hours per day, the average Australian household, if you electrify the 1.78 cars in the driveway and you electrify all the other loads, they'll need about 34 kilowatt hours. So two to three times more delivered electricity to the household. That's if you're doing 80% of your vehicle charging. So the number your mileage may vary literally in this case, but we're going to need two to three times more electricity to live it. There's some good news about that, that means the cost of distribution grid will go down because it's putting more electricity over largely the same network. But we're not really gonna make it all work unless we've deployed as many batteries as we can on the House side. So that's enabling the cars and the household battery, even the appliances and other heating systems to act as storage.

Dan Ilic  49:25  
Is that kind of the metric like as many batteries as we can like is that this is kind of when you think about building a house do you like look under the floorboards and go there could be a good spot there for Yeah, we

Saul Griffith  49:34  
just finished building your house in San Francisco, which I'm going shortly going back to the US to sell because we found out that living in Australia is NASA. And but we went to the extent that we made all of the heating systems into storage so we can or two days of heat for the whole house in the basement and five days of hot water in the basement in large storage tanks. That was my is much much cheaper than battery storage, we also have a battery on the side of the house, we have a 20 kilowatt solar system, which is enormous we, we did that because we're designing for the winter minimum, not the summer minimum. So that really so we will be nearly golf during the whole year and because we were building new houses, some feel easy to do all that. So you definitely need very, you know, I call it greed neutrality to, to conjure the ideas of net neutrality, which is old packets of data are equal on the internet, you can't prioritise one or the other. I think we need great neutrality in Australia. So it doesn't know whether you are origin any energy or Jane Smith. in Cornwall, you get treated the same with your electrons, the solar success stories, and everyone he knows it and there's rooftop solar is proliferating. The literally the cheapest electricity in the world is Australian rooftop solar six cents per kilowatt hour after financing, because it's installing at 95 cents a watt and being financed at 5%. It's crazy. To put that in perspective, the average cost of electricity in the US grid is about 20 cents Australian, the average,

Dan Ilic  51:14  
whoa, that's like more than three times,

Saul Griffith  51:17  
yeah, the average, the average cost of Australian electricity is 25 cents a kilowatt hour.

Dan Ilic  51:23  
So our normal electricity is like five times more expensive,

Saul Griffith  51:28  
and then your rooftop size of salt. So really, and they know that the grid operators will complain Well, if we have too much rooftop solar, then we're not going to balance the grid at noon, because all of it it's on and they will have under voltages and over voltages. And they're going to give you all of this reason to not do this project now. And we're writing a memo, which is Australian electricity market operators currently writing these rules, it's doing it I don't really know. But it does not seem to be going in the right direction. We have to be writing these rules now that anticipate there'll be two electric cars and every one of those driveways, the electricity demand is going to go way up. And we need all of those assets to be allowed to play in the electricity market in order to be able to balance this solar and wind heavy grid. It feels weird that AMD is doing that

Dan Ilic  52:13  
they're usually really good on this kind of stuff. And it seems like a departure from the narrative that they've been kind of building upon over the last year. Do you know what that is?

Saul Griffith  52:22  
I think you're fine. By no means are emo doing the worst in the world. They're doing okay. But there are certainly players putting their thumbs on the scale want to say it sold say I'm politically neutral. I'm Stanford. Bad agents politically, who are putting their hands heavily on the scale, favour locking in coal and natural gas as the source of that greed, also, while preventing you from having electric cars, because it's pretty clear that that's how you make this all work out.

Dan Ilic  53:00  
Yeah. Doesn't that make you incredibly frustrated to be in this country and seeing that happen? I'm really circumspect

Saul Griffith  53:06  
because I've been in this game for 25 years, and I've seen every country fail hugely. And I'm watching the country that apparently we're all thinking is doing great. Fail a little bit right now, the US is doing pretty good, but not great on this stuff, right? And they don't even have a national energy market operator in the US. It's like left up to the state. So you have a hodgepodge of insanity. And you're in California, pg&e is anything but a good agent. And they basically have them an outlet, so you're not the worst in the world. And emo has done some good things, I think their sandbox programme so they could run some of these experiments was good. But now is just the time to declare the future is coming, we can see it. Right? The problems everyone wants to be technology neutral and still have like, but maybe hydrogen or or tadpoles, or guinea pigs will we see the argument about tech, we know which technology is going to win at this point, given rooftop solar is going to be electric vehicles, it's going to be batteries of every kind, including thermal storage. And then the problem is load management because Australia gets to the finish line first because we have the cheapest rooftop solar in the world. We get to develop all the technologies that tie the grid together and then we get to sell that as technology to the rest of the world because we go first I know let's shoot ourselves in the foot and not have that success story because interest large lobby groups with special interests.

Dan Ilic  54:26  
Now is it true I read I read in the Washington Post profile you've got yourself a thermal storage in your backyard you got a six foot hot tubs you should a hot tub so

Saul Griffith  54:35  
I could tell my own solar instead of I don't even I wasn't even going to wait for them to take my net metering. I decided to take all my rooftop solar and make a hot tub to help me with my arthritic joints.

Dan Ilic  54:51  
So you actually you don't put any energy into the grid. You just kind of hate the hot cheapest

Saul Griffith  54:57  
storage I can do is just take in you know any Aren't you I've got a little simple control system. And anytime I'm over producing, dumping, if the, if the car gets plugged in to charge a charge the car car is not plugging up.

Dan Ilic  55:11  
Great. And what does that run? Is it like a little Raspberry Pi, or you got a stroke betta system?

Saul Griffith  55:16  
Actually, there's a little, you can buy a little Wi Fi enabled plug that just goes over the electric plug. And then there's a pretty fabulous open source set of software called home assistant.io. And you can, you can make it sort of, even with my terrible levels of programming ability, make it work good enough.

Dan Ilic  55:35  
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to kind of that thermal storage. When you say that's thermal storage, other than being used as a hot tub? Can you can you reconvert that storage into electric, or I just know that I'm gonna want to have a hot tub today. Alright, so I want to ask you a quick question about, you know, your work and trying to be as effective on the largest scale, you can be with the other lab, you know, out of San Francisco, you know, it's just a group of really dedicated people doing interesting things. But you've worked at such high levels with that small group of people. Did you ever think, you know, our main my mates in San Francisco would be able to have this kind of effect across so much from our little office in San Francisco?

Saul Griffith  56:21  
I didn't. And I think actually, this year has been really educational to me, because I've pretty much spent my whole life in. I'm a tech nology person, and then work on things I believe in and care about. And so we've done a lot of impact in big solar and big wind and hydrogen oil and a lot of things and air conditioning systems. But this year, he's a funny story for years. So when I was marrying my wife, before we were married, I was like a political climate is not heading in the right direction if it was, like 2007 or something. And like, if the world isn't moving in the right direction by 2020, can I become an eco terrorist? Because like MIT PhD, I understand infrastructure systems all week, I can build robots that couldn't make it and stuff, pipelines and coal trains and the whole thing and she's, you know, 2020 was years and years and years away at that point, she said, No, no, you absolutely, that's fine. If we haven't done enough action by then. Anyway, 2019 came around. And obviously the world hadn't done enough. I was like, hey, wifey. If I become the plumber next year, and she said, No, you have an 11 year old and a six year old, why don't you take the year off to do politics and see if you can work inside. And the lesson is actually quite beautiful. How much done you can get with volunteerism is really amazing. And then, with our experience in the US, we started an organisation called rewiring America with a an entrepreneur colleague, and we sort of built this lobbying organisation as though it was a tech startup, I think there was some good lessons there. And that was the right thing to do. But the real lesson is impactful. And I think I want everyone to hear it is like, if we hadn't showed up, large sections of the climate policy wouldn't have been written. There was no one in that swim lane. Like what the people don't. What we don't recognise is that in most Western governments, we've guarded the civil service. And policy has to come from somewhere policy doesn't get written by a civil public service very much anymore. Policy gets written by whoever can afford to show up, you know, afford to show up. It's the natural gas industry, and it's the oil industry. The only other people can afford to show up can afford to show up because they're free, or they're volunteers or they're passionate. And so we've had an outsized impact with a tiny, it really does feel like the, the rebellion from Star Wars, tiny set of poorly dressed people with what the equipment has been out of fight toe to toe with the most powerful lobbying industry in the world, natural, US natural gas industry, and we've won a few battles. And I just, we just need to do that on global scale. Like, you know, there's absolutely no fucking reason at all to be optimistic about our trajectory on climate. Except for what my mother says to me, and I kind of really believe that she's like, the middle class parents have awoken from their slumber and they're angry because you're screwing their children on like, I actually feel like there's a whole bunch of dad bods. And like, you know, finally hippie mamas who are just like ready to fucking rumble now. And I just want them all to feel fully engaged and like, you know what, you only need three of you to show up to a city council meeting, and you can change the rates, the electricity rates, we just got it. We've got 150 years of regulations written for fossil fuels. We got to undo it all in five years, and it's going to take an army of like People with a few spare hours from the middle class showing up to the right hearings becoming a voice, you know, everyone writing to their local members like, honestly, I want pro I we want electric vehicle charging in this parking lot and in front of the school and next to the church and we want this, we want that and then show up to the meetings and make it happen. Like the army that needs to be built in one or two years here is the army in the middle. That's been unheard of in this debate. so far.

Dan Ilic  1:00:29  
This is the so called quiet Australians. Is this what you're talking about here?

Saul Griffith  1:00:32  
It might be it could, it might be exactly what I mean. Anyway, my kids in the sixth grade at the at the local public school, which is just your magical public school looks like it was built in the 1950s. In the Australian, you know, it's it's 100 yards from the beach. It was amazing. The term assignment last year was design a sustainable house. And, you know, my son being my son tells us the my boy, I've got to take a project into the school tomorrow. It's got to be I don't want to do it at all. And I go well, okay, well, we have to do something, you got to build it. So what do you want to build? He's like, Well, can we do a floating city? Because really, I don't like cars that much. And they kill all the wombats and I love one beds. And then like, we killed me for sure. Why don't we just have no suburbs and we just build a floating city. And then we sat down with your calculation. As it turns out, if you build 12, giant 12, Hindenburg is four times bigger than Hindenburg, you could leave all of the suburb of sorry, we made a car. And it was, you know, duct tape and, and knock of pain. It was awful, but kind of cool. And I was really proud that he had this concept and the boldness to go and deliver this weed thing. Anyway, as we're, we go to drop him off, and you got to help him carry his UFO in the class. And every single other you could tell every single other project had hundreds of nervous parent now is engaged in it. And they weren't perfect architectural models of exactly the house that they currently live in with solar cells on the roof, chicken coops and electric cars. Yeah. And it told me something really profound, like I will absolutely go with you and, and having a sustainable Australia, but it needs to be in the house that looks a lot like the house I currently own. And it needs to have cars that are shaped like the cars that I currently own. And you know, okay, we'll have it all out a chicken coop?

Dan Ilic  1:02:34  
Are you trying to say there's a lack of imagination? No, I

Saul Griffith  1:02:36  
actually think we've got it really good in the quiet a stranger quiet because they've got it really good. And they don't want you to take a really good way. And we can't sell a climate we've had such a successful cultural war and campaign on the negatives that will happen to Australia, if we went for solving climate change, as opposed to you know what, I can give you that chicken coop, I'm going to give you an even bigger solar system than you think. And there's going to be two shiny electric cars, and you'll save money. And there'll be an extra $2 million in the 2 million jobs in the economy because Australia has such prolific renewable resources and such low population density that we are the natural foundry for the world. And instead of exporting black rocks, we should export crushed red rocks in the form of steel, which is what we used to do, and we should not give away our bauxite at a you know $100 a tonne, we should make it into aluminium and make $1,000 a tonne. And if we do that, you know, we can in fact be the luckiest country like there is no country as well set up to solve this problem. And I think because we are the luckiest country, we also have a little bit of moral responsibility to show the world that it how it can be done and be the good news story. Right? I just desperately would love gold at Glasgow. Right? We want to win all the fucking Olympic medals. Except for the one that counts. Oh, hang on. Before we told you guys

Dan Ilic  1:03:59  
go I was want to share with you this. This video I made

Unknown Speaker  1:04:02  
a message from the quiet Australians. Hi, i'm john citizen of the quiet Australians. You may have heard of us or maybe not. We're very quiet. For too long. We've almost been silenced. But no longer. It's time for us to speak up. Roughly speaking. Why do we play? Well we believe whatever it's politically comedians believe in. This includes economic growth at all costs. dispatchable coal power franking credit credits, quarterly tax cuts, trickle down economics, fracking, land clearing and getting refugees locked up indefinitely, like Jesus would have done. Also, if you can't afford to see a doctor, you should die. Public Education shouldn't be privatised. So should the army and we believe that politicians are undervalued and underpaid. Why are we so glad you asked because no one would want to be advocating pursued like this, but the quiet Australians aren't alone. We've got the backing of the silent majority is Matt Ryan Terry's Jenkins, president of the solid majority

Unknown Speaker  1:05:25  
Thanks for that glowing endorsement to raise the quiet Australians were so quiet. It's almost like we don't exist.

Dan Ilic  1:05:38  
Now let's talk about cop quickly. We've got a couple of minutes left. And I just wanted to get your position on cop like, what would you like to see happen for Australia's climate ambition, a cop?

Saul Griffith  1:05:49  
When we say a couple of things. So I read the 30 494 pages of the IPCC AR six report. And because that's the kind of thing I do, I read the footnotes. And what's really distressing is the two best scenarios is B, one 1.9, SSP. One 2.6, the technical nicely scenarios, they both model in more negative emissions mid century than is probably economically or physically possible. So even our best case scenarios, as presented by the IPCC, are now kind of unrealistic. So the urgency is even more urgent than you think. Because very likely those negative emissions won't come in to say that day, we shouldn't be banking on it the way that the politicians who go to cop will be banking on those emissions. So if you asked me for best possible outcome for cop 26, would be and I think it's, it's not impossible. And I actually think you could nearly get everyone here to make this possible, you have to believe it's not it's possible until proven otherwise. But like, Scott Morrison goes, when it gets around his turn, to speak, which will probably be lost because everyone's already thinks we're hopeless on this issue. He says, You know what, we have been hopeless on this issue. You know, what, we have been responsible for more than our share of emissions. And we've been a prolific exporter of coal and LNG for so long that we sort of have a burden. But you know, what I've looked at this, and I've had my best people look at the economics for Australian households. And we've had it backwards. We've not been embracing the future because we've been scared of losing our coal industry. But what I now know to be true and understand is that every Australian household will save money and will have a healthier citizenry and will save the prolific costs, what the money every dollar you save in the house, I will save $1 in the healthcare system, because we won't have children with asthma because they growing up in our home heated with natural gas or using natural gas stuff. And I promise to you the world that we do that by 2030 because that's possible in Australia. And we will electrify our households the vaccination against climate change is electrification. And just as we did with our lockdowns, we went hard and we went early, and we're gonna go hard, and we're gonna go early on climate, as well. That 10 years will buy us enough time that we will invest in our industry because we are the exporter of note of iron, aluminium, uranium, copper, we're going to add to that lithium, silicon, other precious metals. And we will more than pull our way in the 2030 2040 period, as we decarbonize our whole export industry, which will be doing the world a service because we will be providing you with the green metals that will help you rebuild your electric infrastructure that solves climate change ahead of even the most ambitious schedule under the ssps and that is a believable story that is an achievable outline.

Dan Ilic  1:09:05  
Wow that was that was great Did you if you written this up in like Comic Sans double space font for Scott you're gonna give it I was going

Saul Griffith  1:09:12  
to write it in Sharpie on a n cap all caps on a piece of paper and put it in front of the teleprompter. So that is possible right and that is what we should be doing and it is in fact good for everyone it's good for us it's good for the households it's savings in the suburbs jobs in the region's it's, it puts us back in the good graces of the world's nations for not being a planet fucking hypocrite. So until that doesn't happen, I want to believe that that's the outcome. And if Australia did that, you've already seen it right Germany and there's a whole bunch of car companies will eliminate petrol cars by 2035 then became 2030. And then England's like alright, 2025, right. So ambition is gonna begin More ambition if Australia could come up and say, You know what, President Biden, that was pretty good, but we don't know what serious looks like in this battle. This is serious. This is, you know, we got more to lose than you we have the Great Barrier Reef, right, we we know, it's written into the name of poetry, Sandow and country land, you know, rugged mountain ranges. And it's tough and it's hard. And we're going to get tougher and harder than anyone else with climate change. So I want you to step up to the ambition level that we just set, and we will lead the world and we will show you how to do that. The electricity market rules that make this possible, for example, will will run that experiment for the world. That is what we can do and that is what I want. And so right now I'm largely just offering myself to all political persuasions to help them you know, I've done the numbers and the research and I can show them the rigorous analysis and, and, you know, try to win some hearts and minds with PowerPoints. I know it didn't work that well for Al Gore, but it's got to work on one eventually, right.

Dan Ilic  1:11:04  
Yeah, yeah. Well, so I don't want to hear your your backup options for cop 26 because I'm so bored by the best possible scenario. Thank you so much for joining us on greatest moral podcast of our generation. I followed your work for about 15 years since when I was on hungry based researching, you know, Mark unipower back in the day so it's a real honour and a privilege to have you on my podcast all those years later. straight back it was super fun to thank you

Unknown Speaker  1:11:29  
for your listening to the greatest tomorrow podcast about generation

Dan Ilic  1:11:35  
saw Griffith there was a great conversation. I really liked it. I don't know if you could tell. I really enjoyed that conversation. super smart guy tried his best to get politicians all over the world to bend towards science. Now you can learn more about soul because you got a book coming out October 12, electrify and optimists roadmap to our clean energy future. It's going to be published by MIT Press. So October 12. Put that date in your diary. Give yourself a reminder to get a copy of electrify should be able to get it we're all good books are sold Big thanks to Roe marks the birth of foundation lindo and of course, Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. He is a master craftsman. He is the reason rational feet always sound so top shelf. Thank you very much, Jacob probably the reason why we are ranked 97 in the best podcasts in Australia. Soon we're going to be 95. And when they change everything for us, please, if you do enjoy these chats we have on the read is more a podcast of our generation and irrational fear. Head on over to our Patreon. We're currently sitting at about 2000, which is great, that covers the costs but I would love to start, you know, earning money from this myself and you know, making this my full time job and also employing a whole bunch of other people as well to work on including comedians and producers and video people and social media people. This is going to be a great enterprise once we hit that $10,000 mark. So please head on over to patreon.com forward slash a rational fear. Also, you know what's great about it is if this becomes my full time job, I don't have to take a job as a management consultant and nobody wants that. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next Friday for a rational fear hate Franklin is going to be on that show. So it should be fun. Bye

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Dan Ilic  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha foundation. Good evening, Louis. Good evening, Daniel. How are you? Oh, man, I'm okay. You know, it's um, you know, I didn't wanna bring it up, but I can't not bring it up. It's day 69 of lockdown in Sydney. 69.Lewis Yeah.

Lewis Hobba  0:17  
All right. Yeah. And you can eat out for two, but not three, because that's a breach of the COVID condition.

Dan Ilic  0:24  
Yeah, that is true. Hey, I'm pretty excited about this show, because we've got a couple of quite a few great guests. But also, we might even hear from you and Billy Joel, a little bit later on. That's exciting. Sure,

Lewis Hobba  0:37  
yeah. Look, listeners of the podcast of the last month would have had that one of my many lockdown crises was buying keyboard, a piano for children. And let me say this Dad, I can you imagine a world in which an adult who decided to learn piano would quit after a short time? Is that a thing you could imagine would only end up doing it for a week. Obviously, that's not what happened to me. I've been very diligently practising every day, but unless a man unless a man may have just played for like three days and then quit.

Dan Ilic  1:06  
We can't wait to hear you play Billy Joel's Vienna at the end of the show. So stick around for that. Please don't. Please don't Oh, you could just skip the end. It's a podcast. by recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the eora nation sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Unknown Speaker  1:21  
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra COMM And section 40 of our rational view recommends listening by image your audience.

Dan Ilic  1:34  
Tonight Joe Rogan is diagnosed with a Delta variant and COVID-19 his next podcast will offer the virus some advice on how to become the alpha and Australia Post. We'll suspend parcel pickups for four days due to having 500 staff self isolate. The pause in the service is said to cost the company as much as several Cartier watches and trade Kelly is reportedly not upset that he's receiving unsolicited phone calls from 1000s of people he texted on behalf of Clive Palmer. He's upset that those people are using 5g phones. It's the third of September 2021. And it's the 69th day of lockdown. Nice. This is a rational fear, irrational

thing Hello, welcome to rational fear. I'm your host former Joe Rogan experience Dan Ilic. Let's meet our female guests for tonight. Our first guest was one of the very first people to come watch a rational fi live at the FBI social back in 2012. Since then, he's gone on to be one of the most successful musical theatre performers this country's ever seen. It's Rob Mills, he Mills thanks so much for having me on the 16th day of Sydney's lockdown it's good to be here.

Lewis Hobba  2:54  
I love the way that intro daddy implied that somehow meals he coming to our podcast is what spurred his success.

Dan Ilic  3:01  
Well, that was my next question is music How did watching irrational fear all those years ago inspire you to become so successful?

Unknown Speaker  3:09  
Was the what not to do? I think I loved it. I've loved it from day one. I'm so glad that it's still going to show because I think it's it's so it's so fun and reverent and, and very thought provoking. So congratulations to you guys.

Dan Ilic  3:25  
The way you say that you're talking about Yeah, I feel like you're talking about irrational fear. Like you're hoping to book us into an old person's home so you know it's great.

Unknown Speaker  3:34  
I mean, if they'll have you allowed anyone in at the moment my dad said that Dan he his son, the gates locked in the in the zone the gates are locked at

Dan Ilic  3:44  
the moment. And she's done more home delivery to celebrities houses than a doordash worker in double Bay. It's the Rockaways herself is Julie's hero

Unknown Speaker  3:53  
Hello everyone. Oh exciting. It's like we're at each other's houses I'm beside myself.

Dan Ilic  4:00  
We're gonna talk about this later on. This is what we do for self care now we just you know, get our friends on the podcast Yeah. But Julia you're more than a friend you're a you're a Patreon member of the show you're a paid up supporter,

Julia Zemiro  4:12  
I have a Patreon I you know what I didn't even know what a Patreon was had to look it up I didn't quite do but they did they get it wrong as a patron. I don't understand. I've got a couple of patrons. I've got indigenous x and I've got bread Goldstein's film to be buried with and you Dan, because I love you and I also got irrational fear out Louis and your good self came to the Adelaide cabaret festival a couple of years ago bits rose. We wanted more politics in cabaret, because I don't know. It seems like a really good place to have politics and cabaret. Not just songs about you know who you're not in love with anymore. And you were amazing. It was so good. You just so fulfilled the brief. Thank you.

Lewis Hobba  4:52  
I do remember Julia. We're about 30 seconds into our show after our short deadline cabaret festival. One there was a guy in the back In the room, and he stood up, and he flicked a feather bow around his neck. And he said, That's not a cabaret. And then he laughed. And it was one of the greatest moments of my life. I love controversy. It's one of the top two storm outs we've had an irrational fear shows in its history was the first one. It was splendour in the grass. We were doing a show. And it was like day two and a half. And everyone obviously is just has been on whatever it is for so long. I people actually come to the tent splendour in the grass to like chill for a moment. And we started doing jokes about politics. And someone literally just stood up in the crowd in the middle screamed at us. Oh, that's good.

Dan Ilic  5:46  
That's excellent. I totally forgot about that. And, of course, our last few motors Louis harbour. Well that Louis. Sorry, I skipped my intro a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Lee and man show who's going to be starting her own political party so she can run for the Senate. But will she get enough people to register? That's the big question. But first here is a message from our sponsor this week, Harvey

Unknown Speaker  6:09  
Norman is giving $6 million dollars of job keep her cash by Kadena huge huge, huge public pressure as all my credibility went out the door during a pandemic our profits increased by half a billion dollars selling furniture electrical and bedding $13 billion worth Not to mention $22 million dollars in free job keep no strings attached. But we're kidding. Oh 27% of it. Wow, that $6 million $6 million that the government can spend on car parks or sporting sheds and swing electrodes in the hope that the Australian public will lose interest in the hobby normally, speaking of interest, we've kept $16 million interest free. Australia has been telling me to go Harvey go Harvey go fuck myself. And that's what I've done just a little bit.

Dan Ilic  7:06  
My instruction was we need a few more cuttings in that sketch, and that will really sell early. What's the limit that you can have in escape? It depends on how many Patreon supporters we got. So we had a few more this way to come in so we could afford a few more cuttings. This week's first few coalition MPs want more school chaplains to help children suffering mentally due to alarmist climate activism? Yes, there are a few there are a few MPs in the Liberal Party who decide that apparently, you know, climate change and get up and extinction rebellion, really robbing children of hope when it comes to climate change. And the solution to that is more school chaplains. See mungus Is this the solution? Julia?

Unknown Speaker  7:53  
Andrew, I think you're the one robbing the young people of Hope you're your party. Now. Look, I looked up Andrew Wallace and him and I both theories. And we're about a year apart. We're about the year apart. I say this because he talks of growing up in the 70s and 80s as I did with the threat of nuclear annihilation, so he knows exactly what he's talking about. And I can't just say that I think the thing that the thing with the threat of nuclear annihilation, he was still a button that someone had to press that you could close a door and you could lock it. Yeah. Climate change you can't get away from it's literally right there. So I think it's a bit different. I don't think it's the same. And rebirth in Aries for you. You know, he's always a little impulsive. He might be on the cusp. She might be in your Taurus. Anyway. But no, I think chaplains won't be helping what have happened to social workers. What about him? The good counsellors could bring a school counsellor in to chat to kids. It's not

Lewis Hobba  8:50  
Yeah, it's wild. I like did you guys have school chaplains? Now I went to a normal school.

Dan Ilic  8:56  
I went to a Catholic school. So we had we had brothers, priests, nuns, Jesus, you know, where the whole thing you know,

Rob "Millsy" Mill  9:02  
went to public school Louis, and we didn't have anything we had. Who was who was often my mom. So like, Oh, that's what you get into public school. Yet someone's mom growing up, right?

Lewis Hobba  9:15  
They should raise funds for more mums, just

Unknown Speaker  9:19  
the support. There's a lot of people doing that in the pandemic, right. There's a lot of people locked down and just making babies that's only doing

Lewis Hobba  9:25  
well by my partner's obstetricians. She's been delivering the baby boom. So she's been. She's never been busier. What a social what a social service. Jeez, that's extraordinary. Hi, look, we're all doing good whack Julia. We're all we're all doing important stuff. Well, maybe some more than others. But

Dan Ilic  9:42  
I'm just pleased to hear that there's going to be another breed of baby boomers coming through to lock me out of the property market.

Unknown Speaker  9:50  
I think Andrew Wallace needs to come down. I went to the climate change March, the kids did in the domain. They were extraordinary. They were there. I remember making little videos saying, you know, you can't be afraid of the word activism. You know, we're out there, you're allowed to get out and have a voice. You're allowed to join your lab to listen People to People talk. This is just such a scam. It really made me cross. When I read this, I picked up the newspaper and I throw it across the other side of the room.

Dan Ilic  10:19  
know, it's interesting the comparison he makes to nuclear Armageddon, but we're actually facing as you said, we are facing Armageddon moment. And when it comes to kind of the global warming in terms of atomic bonds worth of energy, the sea is absorbing an atomic bomb words of energy, like a Hiroshima bomb, word of energy every second, that's the ocean. The ocean is dissolving that energy. So we're actually we're actually it's it's happening. It's just happening very slowly.

Unknown Speaker  10:48  
Excellent stat.

Unknown Speaker  10:50  
If that's if that's a real that's an excellent stat. I'm like, that's a good stat mainland. Someone made it. I made it, like put it out there. Yeah, you got you got it. You got it.

Lewis Hobba  10:59  
And that's why kids are scared. You know, and I think that there's nothing better to do when there's a Hiroshima bomb per day than just have a little pray. Have a little pray and just pray.

Dan Ilic  11:12  
What a great slugger to have a little prior. Right all the way every time. It's the plan.

Lewis Hobba  11:19  
I think we need to get a gas plant in every school. I feel like that, you know? Yeah, every school gets a gas plant. And then the kids can just look at it and know that they will die, but they'll have a very brief moment of employment. get kids to stop squaring off Rakoff. Miss, you know, yes. Come on. We did have a chaplain at our school, and I was not religious. My parents were so anti religious, they wouldn't let me sit in any religious classes throughout my entire education. So they pulled me out of all classes, the shovel that we had gone to a school down the south coast well in Shillong in Victoria. And so everyone there was a surfer and our chaplain was a mad surfer. So I reckon he actually like, though I if there's if I can put my hand up for one chaplain, and one chaplain only was the one at our school, who I reckon would be the first guy on the picket line, like out on the in the domain in the protests just being like you putting her rashtra we're in one of our oceans. I want to go surfing, unless the surf gets better for it, so

Dan Ilic  12:22  
he might be for it. There was also another cool surfer who, who could surf the waves of the Dead Sea. His name is Jesus. He could walk on water, he didn't need a surfboard. He was

Lewis Hobba  12:35  
hanging 10 commandments baby.

Dan Ilic  12:41  
Like, so I feel like sometimes these Christian groups speak on behalf of Christians, regardless of whether actual Christians believe them or not like the Australian Christian lobby came out last week, to say that to Colin supporters to not fear death, and instead push the state governments to end the COVID-19 lockdowns like this is what the ACL said like this is the same people who basically put the country through enormous pain but to have a marriage plebiscite. Okay, marriage privacy. It's the incredible hypocrisy of that anyway, I, I thought I would resurrect no pun intended, an old group that I'm the executive director of to send a message. On behalf of all of those people. I represent a message from the Australian lapsed Catholic lobby. Today, I'm Dan Ilic, the executive director of the Australian lapsed Catholic lobby. And I just want to say that as the group that represents the largest sector of Christians in Australia, lapsed Catholics, we think the only way to give hope to children for their future is to take meaningful action on climate change. And statistically The only thing that will harm children more than climate change is an exponential increase of chaplains in schools. So please, when it comes to emissions, net zero by 2030 and when it comes to chaplains in schools, gross zero by 2021. spoken and authorised by Dan Ilic for the Australian lapsed Catholic lobby camera. All right this week second fear Craig Kelly has been sending text messages to pretty much everyone in the entire country. I don't know if you've seen this people 1000s of people will ever Australia's been getting this text message. You can never trust the liberals labour or greens again. Authorised by Craig Kelly united Australia party click on this link to follow I know whatever what happens you click on that link Have you any of you received this text message yet? Fear mongers lawyers, you've

Unknown Speaker  14:30  
got it? Yeah. Can I quickly jump in Louis. I know you've got this but my candidate really liked Tom and I'd like I've been I've been booty called by Craig Kelly. And this is very light tones.

Dan Ilic  14:46  
I mean, it's fair to say your booty call days are over there behind you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm in a very committed relationship. Yeah. Is there a politician out there that you would you know exactly. Probably not Yeah, you probably would never send it to me but Penny Wong does it for me.

Unknown Speaker  15:05  
I definitely get received one from her no problem I turn except if she booty called me I would just want to sit quietly on a couch somewhere and just nurse a little glass of rose a and

Lewis Hobba  15:16  
I feel like you wanted a skald you go tell me I've done something wrong.

Dan Ilic  15:24  
That's funny. Yeah, I

Lewis Hobba  15:25  
got mine. I got my butt. Obviously. I got mine because I sign up to all of Craig Kelly's email list. I I love it. I love to hear

Dan Ilic  15:34  
your news. urina you and his telegram group to to download to get some in in hydroxychloroquine of course. Yeah,

Lewis Hobba  15:41  
yeah. I'm on the I'm on the waitlist for ivermectin. Absolutely. I'm the first through the door. You know if you can take ketamine you can take ivermectin. I've been training but I've been training for horse level drugs my whole adult life.

Dan Ilic  15:55  
Now, here's the thing, apparently, you know, everyone's up in arms about this. And they're they're taking it to achma acuras had hundreds and 1000s of complaints about this text message. But apparently, political parties and charity groups are exempt from the Do Not Call register and are allowed by law to send it to you. It's under the Act called the spam act of 2003. The spam act of 2008 basically legitimises it we've got we've got on the Facebook who's deserves better is watching us on Facebook right now the Craig Kelly's electorate hello yes

Unknown Speaker  16:29  
well done. I came into Hughes you doing very well. Yeah, I am. I got mine on a Saturday and I was like, come on, mate. That's a bit early anyway, I just I did reply get fat just in case he got it.

Dan Ilic  16:40  
So this this kind of story is moved a little further down the line. So Ben Eltham who is a journalist at the new daily he said on Twitter Look, here is Craig Kelly's mobile number. This is the number send him a text if you like. And Warren mundane SPS board member put out a tweet rage fighting him saying you are a C word what a disgraceful human being you are. Now when I read the article, that was Cray that Lauren Monday was going to take a break off Twitter for calling a journalist to see what my immediate reaction was, well, you know, journalists can base a words I'm sure. I might as well go and have a look at this story. And when I saw the story, I was like, no, no. Ben Eltham is a national hero. That's fine.

Unknown Speaker  17:27  
I wish I'd gotten found and I would definitely have sent him a text. But yeah, that is quite. I mean, do people think sometimes before they tweet, I mean, that's quite something to have said that. I mean, did he not think he's on a board?

Dan Ilic  17:43  
It was a it was a wild tweet, like totally lashed out. Changing your mobile number is easy these days. My dealer does it all the time.

Lewis Hobba  17:52  
I'm gonna get a new message from Craig Kelly just being like guys new number save this one is Craig. Some crackers shit coming through this. I got I've got heidrich I try to crash the car. Yeah, make sure you get your orders in before nine. The new curfew is doing a real hard one for

Unknown Speaker  18:11  
somebody. Okay, peace, human rights in the circumstance that appears to be the opposition party, Labour Party, the National the greens, your fear is rational.

Dan Ilic  18:24  
Alright, this week's third here, like we said at the beginning of the show, you know it's day 69 lockdown in Sydney. You know it's or day blend tea blouson of lockdown in Melbourne. I can't I can't remember. This kind of stuff is taking its toll on everyone and Rob Mills emails. You are in Victoria,

Unknown Speaker  18:43  
Victoria, and Victoria now. We've been almost a whole year in lockdown. So

Dan Ilic  18:50  
how are you feeling mentally? How's it all going? What would you have some tips for us to deal with lockdown. This is time round down.

Unknown Speaker  18:57  
I have some tips. I saw this. On the internet the other day, it was an isolation wellbeing checklist. So I'll just run through them. It's pretty it's actually really simple. Number one, shower very important to medication if you need it. Three drink water. For a clean one thing or one space in your house.

Dan Ilic  19:16  
I have to say that that is a great tip. I cleaned up my entire office this afternoon and I was ready to go. I was like you know I'm pumped to write something now made me feel really good.

Unknown Speaker  19:27  
Clean space, clean mind. Next 10 something like 10 to something growing or living to have a pot plant that you can look after. Be mindfully present to maybe it's a song or a sound, a sensory feeling something that you see or, or spiritual practice. Reach out to a human outside your home. Do one thing to get your heart rate up. Do one thing that you'll be glad you did later. Do one thing just because you want to and get in at least one good laugh. I this thing is really it was like the simplest, most beautiful checklists. You are And everyone loves a list who doesn't love love ticking off the list?

Unknown Speaker  20:03  
Can I add you know what I'm missing? I'm missing swimming in the ocean. Well, you know what, go with me. If you have a really cold shower for about a minute, and I mean you, you you Yelp and you'll have a lot of that going on but I felt amazing this morning after a minute under the cold shower. Man who put a spring in my step. I felt like I've gone for that quick, deep.

Unknown Speaker  20:25  
Yeah, it is the greatest cold showers in the morning hot showers at night.

Dan Ilic  20:29  
Every time I imagine mosey in the shower, I have to go have a cold shower. That's kind of my therapy

Unknown Speaker  20:38  
I've been doing I've got regular I've got regular check ins with different friends at different times during the week we just check in go Hey, guy, we have a zoom for half an hour. And so we don't talk about COVID all the time. We usually try and watch a film or something and then debrief so we just talk about the exciting show or film.

Dan Ilic  20:56  
I've got a surprise for you Julia right now we're gonna settle in and watch Robin Hood's from Disney the animated feature. So kick back, relax. What were these crazy kids get up to enjoy? Is it the moment Russell Crowe member we know the animated one the good one did you do?

Lewis Hobba  21:17  
Something involving Russell Crowe was not the best of anything. Not in my present. Come on my

Dan Ilic  21:22  
I was up early this morning at 4am. And I said I said on Twitter, I should go to bed or Russell Crowe replied No stay up and work. So I'm gonna stay up and work. All right now it's not for Hang on a sec. Right around the country. They're locked down freedom fighters being arrested by the cops in a crackdown to stop the kind of protests that we've seen kind of spring up. Occasionally over the last few weeks. There's a bit of a new trend to as these freedom fighters being arrested by the cops, they like to livestream their arrests because I don't know maybe some kind of self assurance thing that they're not alone, I guess. Anyway, here's a great one from this week. This is from Monica Smith, who is a major figure in the conspiracy theory lockdown world in Victoria. She runs reignite democracy Australia. This is her getting arrested and her live stream. Here it is.

Unknown Speaker  22:15  
I've just been pulled over by the cops. Probably because I'm outside of my five K's but um, hang on a sec. She's outside of the five K's. Do you know why she's not scared? Because she wants to audition for survivor. She is absolutely bald. Bald and you should watch that audition type. It's pretty bad. No wonder she didn't get in.

Dan Ilic  22:35  
Is that legit? Is that legit?

Unknown Speaker  22:37  
Oh, yeah, it's there. And it is really quite a terrible audition. I mean, I wish I had I could have gotten my hands on her and gone mate. Come on. Look up presents, buddy. Relax. Get in there. And she keeps saying I think I'd be good contestant maybe I wouldn't maybe I wouldn't if I got to the end. Well, then I deserved it. I mean, she makes no sense whatsoever. So yeah, but she was she was gonna try and get into survivor. She says she would have had a very good social game.

Lewis Hobba  23:01  
Oh, now she's an invented her own version, which is just COVID so she just walks around in ignoring all the roles and buying it off life.

Unknown Speaker  23:09  
Yeah, just fine. And so I just thought I'd put the live stream on just in case. That was stupid. Oh, hang on a sec. Hang on. Hang on a sec. I'll see you believe in seatbelts beat up believe in a jab. Okay. She's not even moving. Okay, she gets

Unknown Speaker  23:34  
out. moment we need to have a chat to you. That's our motto. informant. So I need to place you under arrest for that. Okay. At the moment you're under arrest for incitement? You guys been following me in my reporting? centre.

Unknown Speaker  23:50  
Hang on a sec. Look at that lower jaw that real? Oh my god. Mom,

Unknown Speaker  23:58  
me What you doing?

Dan Ilic  24:01  
The question have you guys been following me? Yeah, they're the police and they're pulled you over to arrest you for incitement? Of course. They are. Yes. They have been following you like how they know everything about you put everything up on Facebook.

Unknown Speaker  24:15  
Yeah. Isn't it possible that she's actually they'd like, yeah, we'd be following the live stream. We love it. We just want to get your autograph because

Lewis Hobba  24:23  
we really think you should have been on survivor hard.

Unknown Speaker  24:26  
She's auditioning for something again, that's for sure she has she moved back just to get little a camera readjust as well so that you understand that comment.

Unknown Speaker  24:37  
Please share this video as much as possible. Monica Smith.

Lewis Hobba  24:43  
Hang on a sec. I guess the haggis is sort of Monica Smith like just using yourself in the third person is using a lot the media

Unknown Speaker  24:52  
they will know Marty Smith. on her website she describes herself as a self Describe journalist.

Dan Ilic  25:01  
Well, exactly. That's exactly who are a lot of these people describe themselves as self described journalist that says that I am so I am. I am. Anyone with a podcast can become a self described journalist like us. I just said it makes it sound like more of a lunatic. So, yeah, she's self described. So then it gets weird sometimes because you know these protesters, they start to kind of make sense in their own kind of way. Here's one from Queensland about the potential truck blockade in the Gulf Coast. But then it turns into something much, much more. Hey guys,

Unknown Speaker  25:42  
just a quick video down the beach. I'm going to make a quick because I keep talking and I run out of time, so

Dan Ilic  25:52  
he's running out of time because he's on tik tok. So there's like a two minute limit that's running out of time. If he just not

Lewis Hobba  25:59  
done that intro, he did save 10 seconds like

Unknown Speaker  26:02  
word economy crosspoint to max Egan, and he went down and had a look, he couldn't see a blockade on the like south of Goldie. But he did say that there was no, I gotta make

Lewis Hobba  26:14  
sure we know who makes that again is friends with Monica Smith. Yeah, he rolled out who max Hagen is.

Dan Ilic  26:22  
Come on max agan auditioned for the greatest alien bakeoff, didn't you? Yeah. I'm gonna Google him and see who he

Unknown Speaker  26:30  
got the traffic coming northbound. So it could be there. It might not be it might say on Google Maps, it's saying there is some sort of blockage there. So maybe it is maybe the media is just blocking it all out.

Lewis Hobba  26:41  
Hang on. Hang on a sec. He literally said he went down and looked and it wasn't there. And now he's like, it's definitely not there. I've seen it's not there. But maybe the media is blocking the media can like put up a screen and hide a blockade? Is that what he thinks the media is like an invisibility cloak from Harry Potter.

Unknown Speaker  27:02  
I've just googled max again. He's got great videos such as we can't let them get away with it. And the universe had a bigger plan for me. And is this what the Great Awakening really is? So Max said no. Yeah, Max word.

Unknown Speaker  27:15  
With Pauline Hanson and Malcolm Roberts and stuff like, Can we are we sure we can trust these politicians? Are they just playing both sides?

Unknown Speaker  27:27  
Nothing rather than Pauline Hanson are on the same side. So also, yeah, did I know they technically politicians, but they're not. They're not

Lewis Hobba  27:36  
apologists.

Dan Ilic  27:39  
Just like did Malcolm Roberts and Pauline Hanson he's idea of who our politicians and who, who they shouldn't be trusting. And all of a sudden, it should be. No wonder these people don't know what to think anymore. He or

Unknown Speaker  27:53  
she was the one that told the blockade to move on for people. For the people, you know, and I get it's inconveniencing people, but they were all inconvenience. So you know, I think having the power in our hands was a good idea. But are we really sure we can trust these politicians? I mean, are they just playing us? I mean, Malcolm Roberts, I mean, I really liked them. But the more time goes on the more or less, the less I trust them like, tricky, tricky from in Brisbane, a friend of mine, he's

Dan Ilic  28:23  
Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on, not shaky, not tricky. Mills II remember tricky. Oh, man, I wouldn't put a pass someone named melzi to know someone called tricky, that's for sure.

Unknown Speaker  28:36  
Pauline, and she didn't want to talk about conspiracies since he said is this being as used as a front to bring in a surveillance state? She's I don't wanna talk about conspiracy. So you know, why wouldn't if she knows about it, then why won't Why don't you say anything about it? Because I've heard her in in senate talking about agenda 21 and stuff. So can we trust these people? Are they just playing us? What's going on?

Unknown Speaker  29:01  
Is he doing a bit lucky? Like, I feel like I've seen someone do this about someone like I feel like he's so good at what he's doing right now. But he's legit, right? This guy's

Lewis Hobba  29:12  
if you close your eyes, he sounds like there is a very wonderful comedian who does impressions of these people called Greg Lawson. And the only the only version of this I've actually ever seen is Greg Lawson's version. And I've never really seen the real one and I just need to say if to Greg Lawson or anyone who has a chance to speak to him. Now I realise how good his impression is like, this guy sounds exactly like fucking Greg loss and it's why lead

Dan Ilic  29:36  
dead on that is so that is so perfect. That is Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna do that from now on.

Unknown Speaker  29:42  
I don't trust him at all. And Craig Kelly, he's the one that posted fine that brocade has gone ahead. And if this hasn't gone ahead, can we trust this guy to you know what I mean? I've noticed he's joined up with Clive Palmer. So, you know and bangs on about ivermectin. Yeah, sure. ivermectin. But, but yeah, so

Lewis Hobba  29:59  
I met him. Yeah, I mean we all know it work so move on.

Unknown Speaker  30:02  
But I'll keep you posted about the Truckee blockade. I don't know what's going on and if it's going or not going, but there's definitely no confirmation so yep,

Unknown Speaker  30:10  
hang on a sec. who's who's watching him just to check in on his, his ramblings like he's the trucking blockade update who's going? Who? Lucky we got some eyes and ears on the ground. They're lucky like it's it's taking two minutes now of him rounding disease. Nothing's happening. Okay, besides that, who's yours who's using his

Unknown Speaker  30:33  
irrational fear? What is shotput mean to your talk? Everything. I'm gonna go into Brisbane normally 44 years of age. And after this country logo anzacs did shut up with Scott Morrison. This is a rational fear. Our next

Dan Ilic  30:54  
guest joined us last year to talk about changes to the environment protection Biodiversity Conservation Act. And as part of as part of her role at the Australian Institute. Well, she's had enough of being in a think tank and now she wants to be in a do tank. She's running for the Senate next election in a new party called the local party. The only catch is will they get enough people to be able to register. Leanne Michelle, welcome back to irrational fear.

Unknown Speaker  31:19  
Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Julie. It doesn't really matter. Because I'm a self described politician. So say I am so I am. I'm under your election. Yeah, thanks.

Dan Ilic  31:33  
This is a big deal. What's happening right now the federal government is wanting to rush through changes to change the way the laws work. So the parties need not not 500 members, but 1500 members to register for a local party. You're registered. You've got 500 members, but the question is, can you get 1000 more members so you can become a federal party? We just lose Leanne, on that one. I'm back. Back. lands back.

Unknown Speaker  31:58  
Okay, great. Oh, what happened there? I had to wait so long for you that you are dealing with the free folk of Tasmania. And we've got little boxes for like, no,

Dan Ilic  32:13  
I'm sorry. Sorry. We had you on the line for half an hour. We used all of Tasmania's bandwidth during that time. I'm so sorry.

Leanne Minshull  32:20  
No, I'm joking. We are. We've got a blackout, though. But I'm going to pick up on your question. Yeah, that's just gonna plough on. So we did. We made a party, the local party, it's a height as a hybrid. It's a network of independence. That's what I was looking for. So we've got the good things, all the good stuff about being independence, but put it into a party structure. So you've still got the advantages of all of the parliamentary privileges that you get back for having a party. Right. So you

Lewis Hobba  32:48  
like the IGA of politics?

Unknown Speaker  32:50  
Exactly. Where your local grocer, we actually launched just before the state election in in Tasmania, they called a state election four days later, and so we couldn't get registered. So I'm hoping that history won't repeat itself because it is a bit strange going out there and saying, I'm going to run for the Senate. If you're not above the line in the Senate, if you're not a party, it's almost impossible to get elected. And at this election, the sixth seat in Tasmania will be between Jackie Landis' office manager, Eric kuebix. Because he's third on the ticket. And me if I can get myself above the line, so only Tasmanians can help vote Eric out. But everyone in Australia can help them get us above the line by joining the local party. So I can have a really good crack

Dan Ilic  33:36  
is a really interesting way of framing that show there are plenty of people particularly You know, I think you could find 1000 ABC employees who would become members of the local party to get rid of Eric a bit. Well, let's quickly talk about the local party. What is the ethos? What do you stand for?

Unknown Speaker  33:55  
Well, as I said, what we're trying to do is to change part of the structure of party politics. So at the moment, I don't think anyone would argue that it's toxic. It's pretty misogynistic. It's distant. It's very much an insider's club. And I try to make it local again. And we're doing that by having rules of the party like every member gets every elected member gets a conscience vote on every single piece of legislation. So there's no party line to follow. Because I think what we need at the moment are politicians who can speak their mind and vote their conscience, not just follow a Tiguan that someone gives them in the morning

Dan Ilic  34:33  
is a kind of a it says it sounds like a con like a party of independence. Is that is that is it

Unknown Speaker  34:39  
is it is but what holds it together and why we decided to go down this route, rather than just go for independence is that the party system is really entrenched in Australia. And I think we've got to do more than just get a few independents in, although I back getting them in. We actually hope that this starts to change the way that party politics is done, so that it's a killer. To deal with people who want to come and govern and have some overriding principles that hold them together. And the people who are getting this are the young people, it's particularly men, and it's men sort of 55 plus who I've talked with you about this, and they find that they just don't get it. They don't get that we actually have agency over the way that our political system works, and that we can change it. And all we have to do is choose to change it. And the thing that holds the one concept that binds all of the people together, all of the elected representatives, when we get them together, is that they have to hold to citizen juries a year. So you have to make decisions for your community in partnership with them. Not in consultation. Like if I make a decision about what happens in the house. I make it in partnership with my husband. I don't set up a consultation process. Yeah. So that's what we should be doing as politicians and it's what we should be demanding as communities and Australians. You guys were talking about Craig Kelly before, so I clicked on the link because I got the text. Took you the anti Vax stuff. Yeah. What time did you get it? What time did you get it? Ah, like, Yeah, he was pretty cool than me too. Sorry. Yeah, I clicked on it and went through the anti vac stuff. But the actually the important thing about that is because the got the rules have been changed. They've put it through labour and liberal voted for it. And they sort of fast tracked a lot of the normal parliamentary conventions as well. And they're doing it just before an election. Like it just sucks. Like if you really want to change it, change it after the next election. But anyway, one little rule I kept for themselves is if you've already got somebody in Parliament, then you don't need to have 500 members. What exactly Thank you, and that's so you can

Dan Ilic  36:49  
lose memory you can like lose members and still maintain your spot.

Unknown Speaker  36:54  
I don't I don't reckon the Northern Territory country Liberal Party who've got 500 members just quietly. That is such hypocrisy.

Dan Ilic  37:01  
I've never I have no idea that that

Unknown Speaker  37:04  
was a rule. That's just crazy. What that is why Clive Palmer has gone along to Kelly and said, Hey, mate, do you want to be the head of my party? Because he's already in we instantly gives karma party status. Wow. So they didn't change that rule. They left that one in surprisingly and Kara how many is he got? I remember when Cory Bernardi left parliament, although for the liberals and he or whoever he was with, and he started up the Australian Christian lobby, and he was a party and he had no members. And how I know this is because one of my friends stole my iPhone one day and signed me up to the Cory Bernardi fan club.

Dan Ilic  37:43  
Yeah, I joined up to the freedom emails to Leanne and I think they were about I think they published like four emails in a year. They gave up

Unknown Speaker  37:54  
anyway yet. So that's how she did it is. That is crazy. So this is why I think we need more than just a few good independency thing. It's also by the way, I mean, I you know, I am running for the Senate. If I can get the membership numbers in but the senate the part of the house of parties, basically, you can't get in, it's very hard to get in as an independent. So

Unknown Speaker  38:14  
who knows? What How can we help? How can we help you? How can we help Leanne? How can we have Yeah, can

Unknown Speaker  38:19  
we tell everybody to go to the local party dotnet and join up? It's easy. All you have to do is be overwriting have to be registered to vote, and you can't be a member of an existing party. That's it. And I won't even send you four emails a year. And do it or have to be Tasman. Yes. This is the beautiful part. They'll see every person in Australia who would like to help me the throne, Eric a bit at the next day. Come on, it's too good. By just signing up for our membership.

Dan Ilic  38:52  
There's a lot to be said for getting regular folks who aren't professional politicians in the past. Yes. I mean, yes, do Yes. Let's let's remember Ricky Muir. We all made fun of him when he first got him because he was part of the motoring enthusiast party he got in and a quirk of quirk of like, voter preferences. But he was one of the best senators that we ever had in the Australian Parliament. And it was incredibly who's incredibly progressive, thoughtful, and always, he was always on the on the correct side of every judgement in his mind.

Lewis Hobba  39:19  
He was like one of the people who was like, here's my thought, here's my stance, and then people would come to him and go, Hey, here's what were you thinking you'd go? I've heard I've listened to you. And I've changed my mind. And you're like, Where's this is this basic humanity? humanity just wrote on that ticket. Where's the where's the humanity?

Unknown Speaker  39:39  
He but also, you know, he say something like Helen Haynes is a midwife and worked as a nurse. And I mean, it's people who've actually had lives and no real people and understand what it means to suffer and not have enough. And all those guys in suits, they don't get it. They do.

Unknown Speaker  39:59  
Get it everyone I think goes it most people go into parliament wanting to do something good. I think the party structures to people up and I think people stay there too long. I've worked as an advisor before, like 1012 years ago. I've got the best experience now to get to Parliament. I am a publican so there it is Leann

Dan Ilic  40:26  
Landy should die should wait. So Barnaby Joyce goes there so you can get go. What about Leanne's pop? You know when they go What's on the menu? is climate change on the menu? Actually, we've got a menu made up Barnaby. We've got several choices including net zero by 2030. It's delicious. You're lovely. Leanne, thank you so much for joining us. Some people can check out the local party. And and we'll put the link in the show notes as well. So thanks so much for joining us and good luck on your journey.

Lewis Hobba  40:59  
Thank you. I'll get off before it blacks out. No, stay

Dan Ilic  41:02  
with it. Stay. Oh, she's gone. Stay with it. I was gonna say stay with because we got a very special thing to end the programme tonight for weeks. Lewis harbour has been talking up his ability to play Billy Joel's Vienna is a lockdown project. He's been you know, to our you know, it's great to have Mills he and Julia on to music aficionados. And so we've been waiting for weeks to hear Vienna by Billy Joe as played by Louis harbour here on the podcast that's good.

Lewis Hobba  41:32  
Confident that's a confident bit of work right there already. To be beautiful I in all the years I've done irrational fears the first time I've actually had fear is fucking melzi

Unknown Speaker  41:47  
I mean, I look i don't i'm all i'm not missing out. I tell you what Rob will be he picked tonight. I mean, he knew that was a nice so he's in

Dan Ilic  41:57  
touch the keyboard. Without further ado, here is Lewis Hello, lane, Billy Joe's Vienna.

Want to say a big thank you to all of our guests tonight. Rob Mills emails. Julius mirror. Leah menschel for the local party. Big thanks to rode bikes, and our Patreon supporters. Safford chrissa faccin Mary, Robin McLaughlin, Cam Amos, Steven James, the Linda Barrett, Sara raid, Kate golden. Nathaniel say, we had so many new Patreon supporters this week. Big Thank you. It really helps us keep the show going. This is great, Louis. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's a gold medal. I've turned around in my chair. Yeah. Do you guys want to plug anything before we go? Julie do wanna plug anything? I'm not doing anything. Not really. Thanks. Rob Mills emails, you wanna plug anything?

Unknown Speaker  43:28  
I'm not doing anything because I'm in the arts. But I'd like to put by I'd like to plug my girlfriend's podcast is doing about the Paralympics called. Apparently it's really good. And also the other one is the Paralympics. What's the Paralympics? I've cried about million times this fall. It's amazing. It's pretty great.

Lewis Hobba  43:45  
Anything, not just piano lessons. is beautiful. It was it was just a lovely weather when the show was really good.

Dan Ilic  43:55  
Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodnight.

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