Addiction is one of those words that seems obvious until you try to explain it. We tend to fall back on two simple stories. Either addiction is a moral failure or it’s a brain disease that robs people of agency entirely. But neither of those stories feels complete.

Today’s guest is philosopher Hanna Pickard, author of What Would You Do Alone in a Cage With Nothing But Cocaine? Pickard argues that it’s a harmful mistake to treat addiction as either sin or sickness. Instead, it’s a form of behavior that’s shaped by trauma, isolation, identity, social conditions, and often deep psychological pain.

Sean and Hanna talk about her theory of addiction and why our society has built the cage that so many people are trying to escape.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Hanna Pickard, author of What Would You Do Alone in a Cage With Nothing But Cocaine?

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