We Americans are obsessed with work. We want meaning in our work.

We want work to align perfectly with our values. It’s a badge of honor to tell people how busy we are. And one of the nicest things you can say about someone is that they’re a hard worker.

What if we have it all wrong? What if our relationship to work is dysfunctional? And maybe even demonic?

Guest Jonathan Malesic has written extensively about work and burnout for publications like the New Republic and America Magazine. He’s currently writing a book on the topic.

Earlier in the 2000s, Jon had his dream job as a college theology professor, but the reality of the work was sapping his energy and his spirit until he had to walk away. Since that big decision, he has devoted much of his professional life to studying Americans’ relationship to work, why it’s broken, and how we might be able to fix it.

He talks with host Mike Jordan Laskey about his research, including the story of a Benedictine monastery in New Mexico that ran a successful web design business in the 90s until they just shut it down because it was interfering with their life of communal prayer. They also hit on the temptation for folks in Jesuit circles to misuse the popular Ignatian term “magis.”

Keep up with Jon’s work and find a list of all the articles discussed on today’s show at jonmalesic.com.