The Pentagon wants Anthropic to hand over its A.I. with no strings attached. Anthropic doesn’t want its products used to surveil Americans or create autonomous machines of war. 

Naturally, the Pentagon is mad - so mad, they’re threatening to invoke the Defense Production Act against them. But who has more leverage here? 

Guest: Sheera Frenkel, reporter for the New York Times 

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Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort.

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