Remember when the student loan market melted down during the George W. Bush administration? No? That’s because Karl Zinsmeister, Bush’s chief domestic policy advisor, kept it from happening. Every administration encounters this kind of near-calamity and relies on the steady hands of staff to address them.

On this episode, Zinsmeister joins to tell that story for the first time, and explains how the Trump-Vance administration should think about its popular mandate. He and Oren talk about the ascendant populist wing of the Republican Party, why Zinsmeister believes it isn’t as different from the spirit of Bush 43 as some might think, and what Trump’s return portends for the country and conservatism.

Further reading:

• Backbone: Maverick essays in praise of middle America—Why American Populism Should Be Welcomed, Not Feared by Karl Zinsmeister.