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Bart Ehrman, an atheist New Testament scholar with a penchant for annoying evangelicals, now claims that the teachings of Jesus determined the moral instincts of the West. Bart joins us to talk about his new book Love Thy Stranger and why acts of care for immigrants, refugees, and people outside “our tribe” may be downstream of Jesus, even when the people doing the caring don’t believe in him.

We get into what makes Jesus’ ethics so hard to swallow when you read them straight: giving up status, becoming last, serving the powerless, and treating “the least of these” as the real test of faith. Bart explains why many scholars see Jesus as an apocalypticist, how that urgency sharpens the radical demands, and why modern politics can feel like a relapse into the ancient ideology of dominance. Along the way, we ask what loving enemies actually means in real life, not as a feeling but as a set of actions aimed at the other person’s good.

Then we discuss a theological lightning rod: the relationship between forgiveness and atonement. Bart argues they’re competing concepts and claims Jesus teaches forgiveness while later Christians developed atonement frameworks after the crucifixion. We also explore the historical ripple effects, like the rise of public charity and institutions like hospitals and orphanages, and we look for honest common ground between atheists and Christians around ethics, service, and human dignity.

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