Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the evolving relationship between the United States and Israel, challenging traditional Zionist perspectives with a pragmatic approach. In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm shares why he’s shifted from ardent Zionism to advocating for a strategic reevaluation of U.S. military aid to Israel. The conversation covers the political, economic, and cultural implications of cutting off aid, the influence of lobbying groups, and the potential for a new era of U.S.-Israel cooperation focused on AI and technological innovation.The episode also explores the dynamics within the American right, the rise of anti-cancellation sentiment, and the importance of aligning national interests for long-term stability. Plus, Malcolm and Simone touch on global topics like the future of energy, lunar mining, and the shifting landscape of international alliances.Whether you’re interested in geopolitics, U.S. foreign policy, or the future of technology and global power, this episode offers a nuanced perspective you won’t want to miss.Subscribe for more in-depth conversations and let us know your thoughts in the comments!

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. I have been thinking a lot about this over the past few days and one I changed my mind on a major issue, which is the best fast forward with Israel. Oh. ‘cause a lot of people know I have been pretty ardently Zionist in the past. And two,

Simone Collins: are you a Zionist or are you a pragmatist?

Malcolm Collins: I’m more of a pragmatist and I think that I’ll explain where I’ve changed my view on this. And I, I think that if this is correctly implemented, and the reason I’m gonna lay this out in the podcast is I’m gonna lay out every step in terms of doing this, how you would do it as a Republican administration right now.

And like, we’ll explain how we’ll. It basically destroy the modern Democratic party if Trump can execute on this, the

Simone Collins: path forward to own the Libs. Cut off Israel.

Malcolm Collins: Cut off Israel. Yes. So we’re going to go over how you can do this. How you can do this in a way that is [00:01:00] politically viable. How you can do this in a way that maintains a strong relationship with Israel, how you can do this in a way that strengthens our relationship, not just with Israel, but with the Middle East more broadly.

How you can do this in a way that Netanyahu has basically baited already. And I was unaware that Netanyahu has kept saying this and basically, so they

Simone Collins: blocked it anyway.

Malcolm Collins: The only reason why we are not aggressively moving towards this right now is apac who we need to just railroad. Although I will go over that.

APAC has shown a willingness to bend on stuff like this in the past if it’s laid out to them logically. Oh, and the, the thing that sort of brought this up for me, so I’ll go into where I started to go down this path was twofold. One was, I was talking with a fan in the Discord and they’re like, you’ve always said that the right should not maintain any issue.

Like this is a, that’s an [00:02:00] overlap of, of ideologies that we can’t actually win. Elections wins. Right. Or that’s really gonna impact our chances of winning elections.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That’s

Simone Collins: 90 10 issues has been so smart, right? Like he’s

Malcolm Collins: very aware, but we get so much in terms of Jewish and APAC money, it can be useful.

Even in terms of if it’s not getting out the vote in terms of getting out the money, which helps get out the vote more. But the, there’s a few problems here. One is money has been mattering less and less in terms of election cycles historically. And two is what happened recently, which is recently one of the girls from the Red Scare Podcast were having Nick Fuentes, not even their own beliefs, but interviewing him on their podcast got like actually canceled.

And I was under the position that cancellation was over. Like they lost a major job contract, they lost their agency. And I was like, no. Like this. This is the type of thing that when it happens to someone in the right, the rest of the right needs to 100% get behind them. Tucker [00:03:00] Carlson has done some iffy things, but this is different.

This is like a more mainstream. Like, not like Venezuela dictator interviewing type. This is more like, and I think that that was cool that he did that, whatever, but I can understand where you can be like, oh, he’s a more out there figure on the right. These days. This is a more centrist figure on the right these days.

And two is Ben Shapiro has been basically spiraling like lemon grab since this event.

Speaker 6: Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

Malcolm Collins: And I’m just like. The mainstream of the right, like it’s very obvious to me, the mainstream of the right is going to have to cut the Ben Shapiro faction completely off if we don’t want a full on civil war. Would you agree with that, by the way, Simone?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

If you’re like, well, why the Ben Shapiro faction and not the Nick Fuentes faction? The reason is twofold. One is you just have to be practical. Ben Shapiro’s [00:04:00] been dropping fall or is like flies recently, , like 20,000 on subs every month. He’s been losing people for the past, well, really since this blew up.

So, , it’s obvious that he’s losing in the public mind. But not just that, it’s also that he committed the cardinal sin of the modern, right? Which is attempting to ban people and make arguments based on pearl clutching rather than rational argument, we cannot allow that. That needs to be an absolute, if you do that, you are out, right?

That makes you a leftist. That is the argument that the leftists have been Retreating to, and if you normalize that style of argument, then the leftists automatically win because they always win in the game of, you hurt my Fifis, and that’s the game that Ben Shapiro’s been trying to play. You said something that falls outside of what I consider and what the dominant culture considers socially normal.

But the modern right is made up of people who oppose the [00:05:00] dominant culture that oppose the urban monoculture. So of course, we cannot allow the mean streaming of that form of argumentation.

I ran a sentiment analysis on X and 70 to 75% of the tweets that have gone out about Ben Shapiro recently have been extremely negative with only five to 10% being positive, and the five to 10% that are positive are pretty much exclusively from.

Boomers and neocons, which are factions that are dying out. If you do not want anti-Semitic sentiment to grow, we need to cut out the type of sentiment that Ben Shapiro represents.

Malcolm Collins: And so how do we navigate that without losing Israel, which is. Very important in terms of being a highly economically productive, highly technologically productive nation

That has a decent fertility rate. In fact, the only such country on Earth.

Malcolm Collins: that is, has a good reason to be allied with us going into the future. Right? How do we do that with zip? Right? While keeping them on board [00:06:00] basically completely cut them off.

And there is a way too that helps us in a ton of other areas as well. So to go forwards. Hmm. By the way, the larger problem, what are your thoughts on it? Do you actually believe that we do sort of like things are sort of coming to a head where the American right cannot maintain both of these ideologies?

Simone Collins: It does. Yeah. It, it seems like, especially Nick Fuentes trending so much, even in our comments, I see it, this, this really weird

Malcolm Collins: tension Well, is so coming off as the, the weest bad guy in all this. And that like we sort of need a mainstream play. And that’s the reason why we’re making this episode because a lot of policymakers watch our show or a number do at least.

And after we’ve spoken at the White House on this stuff and a lot of other influencers watch our show. And so if we can begin influencing a third way forwards in a way that has so many positive externalities for the party, let’s do it. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because honestly the, the arguments that I mostly hear [00:07:00] against Israel all get grouped in by some people into like, oh, this just, you are trying to exterminate journals.

But like, some people are just like, Hey, why are we paying for this? Like some of the arguments are very, very, very reasonable. And, and Israel

Malcolm Collins: needs to make it so that these arguments are not reasonable. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: the way, yeah. Well, I mean, I think this is similar to your your AI argument where if, if you make it such that one group cannot exist.

Period. Then you know the other group is obligated to

Malcolm Collins: get, yeah. What she’s saying is, if you say, I will kill any human who is better than me through like augmentations, or I will kill any AI that’s better than me, then eventually you mandate those systems turning against you. And yeah,

Simone Collins: and right now the way the arguments seem to be going is like, well.

You know, if you question Israel at all, then you know, you, you are the enemy. Or if you support Israel at all then you are the enemy. And, and I, we need to [00:08:00] deescalate that to like. More boring. Well, I actually

Malcolm Collins: don’t even think we need to deescalate it. I think we can do the throwing the anchor off the boat in mid-flight to turn it around at full speed,

Speaker: , Lower the starboard anchor can.

Take off

third club, one part of horse

Malcolm Collins: you know, like they do.

We’re, we’re

Simone Collins: really mixing metaphor here.

Malcolm Collins: Pirate to the Caribbean. Mine

Simone Collins: boats,

Malcolm Collins: no. What I mean is, is, is, or the. Apollo 13 use our trajectory in one direction with gravitational pull to slingshot us at an equal velocity in the opposite direction in a way that your [00:09:00] opponents don’t see coming at all

Simone Collins: which is totally changed course with

Malcolm Collins: flash.

So we over how this works.

Simone Collins: Stunt submission.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So right now the US is putting about 3.8. Billion. This is like on an average year in terms of our preexisting agreements with a 10 year more random signed in 2016 with Israel. Right. I’m suggesting we cut this off before the turning point, and I’ll explain why in just a second.

Now, if we put that 3.8 billion in context, it’s really not that much with, and consider that that’s like Ethiopia is 1.8 billion a year. Jordan is 1.7 billion a year. So that’s as much as we’re giving Ethiopia and Jordan every year. Except that money stays in Ethiopia and Jordan and with Israel it’s mostly coming back to us.

I think over 90% comes back to our military contractors who are going to be the biggest problem in doing this. Like Ethiopia and Jordan are not long-term geopolitically relevant to us. Israel is long-term geopolitically relevant to us, so. Why, why are we, why are [00:10:00] we like caring about this? Right?

Like, optically speaking. And that’s when I started to be like, okay, so what actually happens? And we’re gonna go into the economics of cutting Israel off. Or it’s not just Zim. What if you took like Jordan Egypt together? That’s about the same amount a year. What if you took . Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, and Kenya together. That’s about the same amount for a year. And again, it’s, it’s much worse in these countries ‘cause we’re wasting the money in these countries. IE it stays in those countries. It’s for development in Israel. It mostly comes back to us. Let’s cut it off.

But let’s go forward here. All right, so the foreign military financing FMS under the 2016 to 2028 memorandum of understanding the MOU, which is a binding treaty, but not legally enforceable agreement between the government. So the president actually has flexibility here. Aid is appropriated by Congress each year.

So Trump couldn’t quote unquote just cut it off, although I do think it is smart to push it to Congress, and I’ll explain why in a second, overnight without legislative buy-in, but he could delay disbursements attached to new conditions. Eeg tying it to quote unquote American first [00:11:00] Procedures favoring US jobs or push for reductions via budgetary proposals.

And he’s already done stuff like this in other areas. So, how would Trump frame this in a way that doesn’t just burn everything down? Well, what’s important to note is Trump’s unique relationship with Israel. Trump in his first term, moved the embassy very controversially into Jerusalem, which freaked everyone else in the left, the F out.

But in Israel that

Simone Collins: was announced while you were in Israel, was

Malcolm Collins: it? Yeah. They like had his picture projected on buildings around like Jerusalem. When I was there, it was very big.

Simone Collins: It was a big deal. It wasn’t

Malcolm Collins: just like, then he, he negotiated this ri the, the troop the, the hostage release in Israel where they regularly on the left and the right in Israel.

They super came together over this.

They like painted big memorials of him on beaches and stuff like this. It was seen as like in across the board broadly. Good thing where some leftist, a tax trump over this, but broadly, everyone in Israel thought this was a good idea. [00:12:00] Then you had the Helping Israel in Iran, right?

So if Trump said, Hey, let’s cut this off and we’re gonna go to Netanyahu and see that Netanyahu has actually suggested this broadly. And the core reason Trump hasn’t gone along with it is because of people who are basically more Zionists than Netanyahu in United States positions that we can get around.

We’ll get to that in a second. Cut off. This funding entirely. If he said, we’re gonna cut this off, but he frames it as a graduation, basically saying, this is military aid. When this military aid was given to you, you had three core opponents that were an existential threat to your state, Hamas, Hezbollah, and ran.

Well. We just helped you deal with Iran. We just. U Rights basically handled Hezbollah on your own. They’re at like 30% operational efficiency now. And Hamas isn’t exactly an existential threat anymore, right? So [00:13:00] it only makes sense that we would pull back on these sorts of funding, but you don’t do this right away.

There’s other benefits. We could get to this. Before you do this deal, you go to Saudi Arabia, you go to Saudi Arabia, and you say, Hey. What if we build this framing for you guys, right? You work towards re normalizing with Israel, but we can treat this as a Saudi Arabia victory America pulling out of funding Israel military.

And we will say, we did it with you as the negotiator of Saudi Arabia. Now this is gonna look great for Saudi Arabia. In terms of regional power plays and Saudi Arabia can say, look at what happens when Iran tries to move the US out of Israel. The US gets more entrenched. Look at when we try to do it, we actually get the US out of the region.

Now what does this do politically in the United States? Well, the, the left is completely effed, completely effed [00:14:00] because they’ve been trying to get the US dis disentangled from Israel for. Decades at this point and they haven’t been able to. If Trump did an about face on this one, his base would be super into it.

Like, like his core, core base would be super into it. Oh yeah. It would completely undermine the left in the next elections ‘cause he ended the Gaza war. And Indian military funding in Israel. Right. Which would be very hard for leftists to go against at that point. Right. And this is becoming like a major issue for them.

Right. H how do, how do you even win? How do you, how do you as like a OC go up and try to run against somebody like that or an administration member like that? Right. Better. It helps fold the, the civil war that’s happening right now. Right. Which is to say, amid doing this, you could make a speech and I think Vance would do a very good job of handling this.

‘cause he’s very good with nuance. Things that the right should not be about canceling our [00:15:00] own. Right? Like basically everyone knows who he’s talking about on this issue. So it can also be seen as this is what happens if you try to build large cancellation campaigns on the right, like we will about face in a way that you potentially don’t like.

Because I can see Israel will like this, but APAC and people like whatever his name is. Ben Shapiro will hate this, right? Because it’s basically framed as a failure on their part, right? Mm. For doing these types of cancellation campaigns, but it will prevent the actual you know, basically just.

Antisemitic for the state of antisemitism from gaining any more ground, because now they either have to say in the same way that many leftists had to be like, actually, it wasn’t about the war, it was just about the antisemitism. Many people on the right are either gonna have to take a stance, which is either, okay, now I’m all in MAGA America first again, or.

No, I, I still really wanted like attack Jewish people. Right. So it [00:16:00] basically forces people’s true colors in a way that prevents antisemitism from growing under the guise of, we are really concerned about this money we’re sending to Israel without getting. Anything, quote unquote, in return. Now, I’ve argued that I do think we get stuff in return, but it prevents that argument from being used, which is fundamentally long-term beneficial to Israel.

We’ll get to that in a second. Before I go further here, thought Simone,

Simone Collins: I find this very compelling. Keep going. I mean, I just, the one thing I’m not so sure about is the really heavy lobbying interests. Behind the companies. Companies are primarily benefiting from this aid. It is

Malcolm Collins: gonna be like Boeing.

It’s gonna be like Honeywell. It’s gonna be like a bunch of American contractors. Right. They’re gonna have an absolute connection because they have been the primary beneficiaries of our aid to Israel. Not,

Simone Collins: yeah, because this is basically like a spending program for American businesses [00:17:00] where their products end up in Israel.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And they

Simone Collins: frame it as a, and I feel like that’s might be more of a driver. Behind all this. Did anyone think

Malcolm Collins: this is No, but this is actually the beauty of this, right? Okay. So Trump can handle all of this in a way where I would believe that like Trump has a strong enough relationship with Netanyahu’s government that he can be like, Hey, I need you to come out and say like, this is a really good idea.

We want to do this. And I’m gonna argue that all the signs point to them being amenable to that if they do that. Right. Then if you as a congressman or senator come out against this, and recently Democrats have been getting equal two more funding from the military contractors and Republicans, right? Yeah.

The only reason you would be coming out defending this is military contractors, right. If you can get Netanyahu on your side on this. Right, [00:18:00] and, and I actually think this would work really well in Israel as well. If Netanyahu got on board with this, and I’m gonna explain the project that I think we can pitch to Israel that would get him on board with this even further than he already is.

But basically it’s Trump’s opportunity to call out the quote unquote true deeps stake. Trump doesn’t care about military contractors, but if he’s out there being like anyone who opposes this. It’s clearly doing it. Not for the sake of Israel. Look at what Netanyahu is saying, but because of their crony ties to APAC and the military contractors, this looks good for nobody.

Right? Yeah. It’s a good way to clear out opposition and democratic opposition and watch if, because so many Democrats just reflexively oppose anything. Trump does watch if a large faction of Democratic congressman, because I think enough Republicans would. Be like, oh. Like we actually kind of need to get on board with this, especially if we can get Netanyahu on board with this.

You know, like you’re your otherwise simpy for Israel, like Ted Cruz [00:19:00] types. Well, if the Democrats, and I promise you a large fraction of Democrats reflexively will end up saying, no, we cannot. In these military contracts, it makes the Democratic Party look cooked to their base.

Simone Collins: That’s a fair point. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I wanna go into the Netanyahu stuff before I pitch. What I think we can do that would make this look really good, like long term, right? And, and like we’re talking Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, like that’s gonna be the huge, huge fighters on this, right? Yes. They’re gonna lose their minds over this and we’ll go into it, but let’s see, what has net and Yahoo been saying on this?

Okay. Here’s a quote from Netanyahu. We received close to 4 billion for arms. I think we will need to wean ourselves off American Security Aid just as we weaned ourselves off of America. Economic aid. This is a direct quote from Netanyahu during the meeting referenced in multiple [00:20:00] expos and it was in November 13th, 2025.

Simone Collins: Okay, so this is very fresh.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. He’s basically saying, I’m up for this. And note here, the core danger of not doing this under the left, we wean Israel off of economic aid, right. If they do that for military aid, they’re going to own that as a feather in their hat, right? Mm-hmm. If we do this as the right, basically it’s gonna happen.

If the left wins anyway, right? Why don’t we do this while maintaining a strong relationship? In the meantime? Right. It’s foolish of us to not take advantage of this potential win given how much it will throw our opponents geopolitically. I mean, even I think in Europe, who’s been complaining about the United States Israel relationship forever but also locally, right?

Okay. Other quote here. This is Amit Haval. This is a, a high level guy, was a sort of Netanyahu ally guy. He [00:21:00] says, quote Biden or Trump Woff, or former Secretary of State, Tony Blinken. There is one clear con conclusion. For the past two years, Israel needs to be independent and not reliant. Israel is already 77 years old.

It’s time to be weaned. This is an important statement by Prime Minister Netanyahu. And this was in March, 2025. So basically he’s saying and, and this is on his US visit, right?

Basically saying, Hey, I support Netanyahu in this. So he’s getting political support on this. If we go to other interviews we get Netanyahu saying, I don’t know what they’re talking about.

My direction is in the exact opposite. So, basically this was when they were talking about Netanyahu renewing at the end of 2028, another 20 year agreement. And Netanyahu, he said. I plan to do the exact opposite of that. So Netanyahu plans to not renew the agreement, but what would be an even louder political sign is if we cut it off a few years before that because we don’t want Netanyahu handing this [00:22:00] win to Democrats.

Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Assuming they end up winning in the next cycle. Like we, we basically gain nothing from this. Another quote from Netanyahu. Now I want to make our arms industry independent. Totally as independent as possible. Then we have Netanyahu. I think that it is time to ensure that Israel is independent.

Then we have Netanyahu. We have a very strong economy, a very strong arm industry. And even though we get what we get, which we appreciate, 80% of that is spent on the US and produces jobs in the us. I want an even more independent Israeli defense industry. Basically he’s saying, do you not see that? In a way this hurts us to be so dependent on the United States one?

Simone Collins: It does. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Okay, next one. And this one has been quoted in a few different ways. Israel does not ask others to fight for us.

Okay, so it’s close to net. Yahoo. In this one, we don’t know who it was but it was confirmed in some reporting. We passed on civilian aid in 1996 [00:23:00] and might pass on military aid in 2026.

Israel and America are partners and alliance like no other fighting on the front lines of civilization. So note here. He’s saying let it it pass in 2026. What I’m saying is, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If that’s the direction you’re planning to go anyways, handle it in this administration, cut it off in this administration.

It puts you in a much stronger position and you have the political protection because who is really gonna complain if it’s coming from Trump, given all the other things he’s already done for Israel?

Simone Collins: Exactly. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then in another unconfirmed the per like insider, this is out of the box thinking.

We want to change the way in which we handle past agreements and put more emphasis on US Israeli corporation cooperation. The Americans like this idea.

So. How do you do this in a way that benefits the United States even further? So I’ve always said that Israel’s core advantage is the Jews. A lot of the leading AI people, even in the United States, are of Jewish ancestry, right? So we want to align their [00:24:00] interests with ours. If we look at the future of warfare, even currently, Israel has been investing a lot.

In AI based projects right now, a lot of their existing AI based projects are very distributive in terms of how they are implemented. Well, what if you say, when you announce all of this, you say, Hey, we want to do. A joint effort in one of the most important areas of military technology going forwards, which is ai.

Now, one of the things to note was past joint efforts was Israel, as I noted in the past Israel video is Israel has sometimes sold technology from these joint efforts when they are being done with in Israel. Mm-hmm. This wasn’t ones that were being developed in the United States, but when they were developed within Israel, they later sold them to China in, I think in both instances.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Which, no, not something we feel great about.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so basically, but why were they able to do this? They were able to do this after the projects were discontinued, and they basically had all of the tech that they had been working on [00:25:00] in a US co-venture in Israel, right? Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, but AI is different than something like developing a plane or something like that.

You need giant, stable data centers. Exactly. The type of thing that would be a very juicy target to the type of people who would want to bomb you, right? Mm-hmm. Second, they need to be cooled, right? Not easy to do in Israel, right? Because Israel’s a hot place. Huh? What’s a location that is probably the single most defensible place on earth where you have cheap energy and lots of cooling resources.

Oh, the United States, right. So if Israel wanted to move to a partnership relationship with United States and they want to develop super advanced AI, and they wanted to show that they are moving into a more equal partners position with United States, what we [00:26:00] should do is a totally joint AI mega project.

Simone Collins: I love it.

Malcolm Collins: Now, why is it needing to be totally joint? Because that way it doesn’t get sunset like one of these past plane projects and then sold to China. Mm. If it’s Israel’s core mega data center, right. For AI development and if it is a core development center for US military AI development. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t benefit Israel to leak the technology.

It would in fact be completely foolish for Israel to leak the technology. Second it. Very logically, you know, you’re basically saying, Hey, why would you develop a mega data center in Israel when it can just be bombed? Right? Right. Like there is a logical reason for them to put it in the United States, but now they have a further vested interest in our continued relationship with Israel in our defense.

And. And actually making this a [00:27:00] really good project, and it looks like a joint project where we can say, we won’t invest a dime going to Israel because all of this development money is going to the United States and Israel needs to develop an AI mega project anyway. So why does it matter? Now we might still have aid, but it’s going directly to the United States.

Do not pass, go. Do not collect $200. Not going to Israel. To the United States. And it’s going directly to American contractors within the United States developing a project that is directly for American use. It’s just that the Israeli government is doing it as a joint project. Mm-hmm. So it benefits us across the board while actually solidifying our longitudinal alliance much more than military aid for American government contractors does.

And this could be used to lower, I think, initially the fears that the government contractors have. Which is, you go to Boeing, you go to Raytheon, you go, Hey, [00:28:00] AI is the future anyway.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right. We promise you a certain amount of contractor deals in the new AI mega project for the military. And so you’re just transitioning the money that used to go to Israel to this.

We’ll cut them off eventually, but you know, for the first year to have them not do a bunch of lobbying, we can handle this. Right.

Simone Collins: Well Melissa, this is not going just to like fuel weapons and instead develop

Malcolm Collins: something at least not gonna benefit at bombs. Right. Like, okay. So before I go further on the economics of how Israel can pull this off without American aid, because I’m gonna go over, basically we learned in the last military theater that they don’t actually need this aid as much as they thought they did.

Oh, really?

Simone Collins: So basically we’re was a lot of this to go to get weapons that just aren’t gonna get used now because they’re not

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Relevant with how modern relevant works. Oh, I hate wasted money.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s going to pay for big, fancy American tanks and planes that nobody really needs anymore. [00:29:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Your thoughts before I go further Samo,

Simone Collins: I just, I just want this done now.

This sounds good to me.

Malcolm Collins: You just want this implemented? Well, the other joint project we could go into is Israel is bringing them in on Project Replicator, but it would have to be a completely joint project if, if they were doing that. No, it being developed in Israel. So if they want, if they want to have basically Israeli military officials or Israeli military scientists, those people are living and working in the United States facility.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I could see that one. That would work better,

Malcolm Collins: That way. And, and again, we have a good, or wait, you guys have ha habitually leaked stuff when we’ve developed it in Israel in the past. It’s stupid to develop it in Israel and it’s not even in your own best interest.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Continuing here. Okay, so what can we cut? First we can cut the Navy Corvettes, the SAR ships. So these are a partial Northrop developed ship. Okay. And you could [00:30:00] easily cut 50% moss ball. Two to three Corvettes. Right now they’re costing around 800 million a year.

And there have been no recent naval battles that they would be relevant with. They are really only relevant in Gza Gaza blockade. But the Gza Gaza blockade could be done much better with drone ships than this. For sure they’re not particularly relevant Submarines, why the heck do you need submarines?

Except for Iran Intel. That’s really, it is Iranian nuke deterrent which we can help with anyway. So you could cut this 60% easily. It’s around 400 million a year and there has been no sub war for in a long time. Anyway air base defense this is the iron dome arrow. So they do about. 10,000 intercepts.

And yeah,

Simone Collins: this seems like one of the more active thing. I mean, very, very expensive, but also quite active.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But also because they’ve taken down Hezbollah and Hamas significantly. It is something that could potentially be cut back. Another one that [00:31:00] could be cut back is the reserve slash Special Forces.

The, they are. Well, this is medium deployment. Well, we’ll say maybe. And the cyber intel is obviously incredibly useful.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: If you made those potential cutbacks, you could get around three to 4 billion a year. And I also think that, and specifically here, I think tanks is what I would focus on cutting back the most.

We’ve seen in more recent warfare types. That tanks are less relevant than they have been historically and things like embarrassing,

Simone Collins: if any. The only stories you hear about tanks now are just

Malcolm Collins: embarrassing stories. Well, no, the tanks have been useful against Hamas, simply because Hamas is so primitive.

Mm-hmm. That tanks are still useful against Air forces. That said, if you have autonomous drones, why are you using tanks at all? I would actually move entirely to Moss Ball the Tank program. Like, like literally tank tanks off the battlefield entirely. And you can say, why not keep like a small amount?

It’s because of the cost [00:32:00] savings of not having to have. Any variable parts for these is just so giant. If you completely moss ball that and replace that with AI drones which I think are going to be much more effective, especially at urban combat I think you’re just gonna get much better functionality in in future combat scenarios.

The Air Force is much harder. I also think the Navy can be significantly moss balled, whiz. Drone ships and drone programs. So just move to an entire drone based Navy program. And then in terms of the, the aircraft just, you gotta keep it, it’s, it’s too useful for bombing campaigns and stuff like that, unfortunately.

Also the, the Navy branch is just not that active. So that’s, that’s also easy there. Now in terms of apac, APAC is going to be one of the hardest things to deal with because they’re just zealots. But we were able to cut back US economic aid to [00:33:00] Israel in spite of apac. I think we can cut back here.

The other thing that really defends APAC is if this come from Trump. So thoughts, Simone, we move forward with this. What do you think happens?

Simone Collins: I think it better aligns incentives. And I think when people misinterpret concepts around Zionism or support for Israel or opposition for Israel, they’re not looking enough at incentives.

And, and underlying streams or pathways to human flourishing or human suffering. And what I like about your formulation here and, and your proposal is that it is designed to optimize around future human flourishing and benevolently aligned incentives in a way that the current status quo, which we still su, have supported historically over other alternatives.

Does like [00:34:00] the, what we’ve said in the past is, listen, it makes sense for the US to be allied with Israel. It makes sense for us to have a friend in that region. Well, so, you know, our

Malcolm Collins: best interest and people have pointed out, they’re like, well, there’s Jews in Israel that like spit on Christians. And I’m like, there’s Christians in the US that spit on Jews.

Like, I don’t understand, like, like you’ve seen the things that like

Simone Collins: Well, and that it, but it, it also doesn’t matter. What matters is overall what these countries and their interests are, and. Yeah, I mean what, what we need are allies who support our right to. You know? Right. And I think

Malcolm Collins: there’s a, a misunderstanding where they think that there’s, like, again, Israel is other than the United States, and the Jewish people are, other than you know, like Protestant populations, right?

Like they are a, a different group with different interests and. I think that you can recognize that this group might favor their own interest over ours. Yeah. And so the goal is to align those interests in a way where they can’t [00:35:00] easily favor their interests over

Simone Collins: ours. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The, the better way to put it is you want to create it, create systems such that their best interests are best served in a way that also serves our best interests.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that’s, that’s what I

Simone Collins: meant to say, right? Everyone acting maximally, selfishly. Act in a way that benefits each other. Exactly. Now it’s not set up that way,

Malcolm Collins: point out here that there is like, people will be like, oh, there are Jews who dislike, you know, Goms or whatever, or even, even America more broadly, right.

Or Christians. And my answer is, yeah, and there’s a lot of Christians who hate Jews, right? Like, if we allow. Potential alliances to be leveled by the iterations of each faction that hate the other one. You, you wouldn’t have any ally on earth, right? Like, there’s good, there’s factions within every group that hate every other group,

Simone Collins: right?

It just, it seems so stupid to just hate a group. Like, what you need to look at is, okay, what do you want and how are you gonna get it? [00:36:00] And you know what groups.

Malcolm Collins: I mean

Simone Collins: in that

Malcolm Collins: battle, people on the Discord being like, oh, like Israel is destroying like a thousand year old churches. And I was like, where on earth is that happening?

And they’re like, in Gaza. And I’m like, you, you understand that the Christian population in Gaza was Genocided, right? Like they used to have a decent Christian population and now it’s less than 1% of the population.

For context, , when Palestine was created, Christians made up. This was in 19 22, 9 0.5% of the population. Now they’re well under 1%. I.

Malcolm Collins: And. The, the, this is a bit like saying like the US was antisemitic because we bombed, you know, at an ancient temple in Dresden when we were firebombing it during World War ii.

Like, obviously interests are aligned here. Like the, the, it matters much more the actual humans who are being genocided in a region. Not that, you know, Israel can prevent that without a total occupation of the region, but I’m just saying that like, if you’re talking about are Christians being genocided in [00:37:00] Israel, absolutely not.

Are Christians being genocided in many Muslim majority areas around the world today? Yes, they are. So it’s, it’s worth. Like being aware of the scope of the conflict and that the conflict, I think going forward than, as I’ve said, going forwards in a world of demographic collapse, we, alliances are gonna matter much less between countries and much more between cultural groups, IE, Jews, Protestants, Catholics, Protestants various Muslim groups, et cetera.

Right? Like, and within a country, your alliance is gonna be much more towards your broader cultural group than it’s going to be towards your individual country. And I think that the, this is broadly already true across most of Europe. It’s just that like the Muslims realize it. And the native Europeans don’t yet.

But for that reason, a lot of those countries are going to fall, like it’s just inevitable that they’re gonna fall at, at current demographic rates. And so when we think about like the [00:38:00] future aligned power factions, there’s a, a lot of the regions that we, we think we can allot. Like also, I don’t even think that Europe is really on our side anymore.

You know, they’ve, they’ve gone so woke even if they maintain power,

Simone Collins: it hasn’t felt a long time. It hasn’t felt like that since 2016. I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I see them like when I look at the core nexuses of power that oppose us interests like geopolitically. I’m typically like, it’s the, the woke Europe monoculture, it’s the Chinese alliance.

It’s the sort of two Muslim fact, well, one Muslim faction largely, which is the Iran Nexus, maybe Saudi Arabia, but they’re more are allies ish. They’re like in the Ishi zone. More directly opposed to us in the Saudi Arabia in faction is the Vatican faction. They are always criticizing us and the, the socialist countries that fall under their control always are, you know, thinking things about us.

And then in terms of like the nexus that, [00:39:00] that like. Is more reliable, I think is like when I’m looking it is United States, Israel, maybe the uk if it can be reclaimed, but that seems unlikely. Maybe Australia, it can be reclaimed, but that’s likely, unlike, unlikely, maybe New Zealand, but that’s also unlikely.

So like the only reliable player we have on the table is Israel. Which is one of the reasons I’m like, it makes sense to invest in them, but it doesn’t make sense to invest in them in a way that could cause us long-term reputa or even electoral damage if they plan to pull out in 2026 anyway. Right.

So, any fans of this, if you’re in the, I know we have fans related to the Israeli government, try to get this idea up to like Netanyahu’s administration, get him to mention it to Trump or somebody like that, or within the Trump administration. I want to see this idea broadcast more because I think it would destroy the left in this country while building a much stronger.

More [00:40:00] realistically permanent alliance between the United States and Israel, and also fix part of the problem we have growing within the right and completely throw cold water on growing antisemitism among the right in the United States,

Simone Collins: plus boost investment in ai, which is the ultimate arms race we should be focused on right now.

Not on

Malcolm Collins: exactly

Simone Collins: foreign conflicts that. Honestly don’t matter that much, but

Malcolm Collins: also potentially strengthen our relationship with the Saudi Arabia Alliance, which would be really powerful if

Simone Collins: we could say. Yeah, I love that element of it. I, I do. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All

Simone Collins: right. It’s another nice perk.

Malcolm Collins: Love you, Simone. And, and I, I’ve totally done a 180 on this, and it largely came from the fan who is like,

Simone Collins: I know.

Yeah. Have you done a 180? I mean, we’ve always, your interest in Israel, I mean. We, we like to, I think, but what I’m saying

Malcolm Collins: is we need a faction in the right that’s actively pushing, being like, look like we need to cut military funding to Israel. Now. They won the war. It’s over. Now is the time to do it.

Simone Collins: [00:41:00] I know, it’s just, I, I feel like there’s this tendency for people, and this is something that just culturally we don’t do.

There are a lot of people who are just like, this group is good, or this person is good, or, I love this person ‘cause this person is just inherently valuable. You know, like, I just love them because they exist. Or, I love these people because they exist. And a lot of people view Zionism as the Jewish people have a right.

To Jerusalem. In, in that is,

Malcolm Collins: that is not, by the way, the way I view Zionism.

Simone Collins: Well, I know, but lemme explain. People have a right

Malcolm Collins: to fight for a right to

Simone Collins: Jerusalem. Well, that’s, no, see, that’s the thing is, is people confuse the two. So they think, they think they, they impose that view on everyone because they themselves hold it.

These weird. Totalizing like definitional, this person is good, or this person deserves love. And we are extremely pragmatic in and conditional in everything. Like, I love you because, or you know, these [00:42:00] people deserve this place because they’re the best ones to run it right now. Or, you know, we, we like.

Judaism as a religion and a cultural set because we see that it produces really compelling outcomes. We like the fact that Jewish contingents run Israel because. Malcolm visited it and saw how well it was going. Like, but,

Malcolm Collins: but, but what I’m saying is, is, is the Jews would lose their right to Israel and Jerusalem if somebody defeated them.

Yeah. If they lost the seven days, you entitled not say they have a right to it. I would say the stronger force won. You know, they, they through political maneuvering and their own blood, they. Earned that, right? Yeah. But it can be lost at any time.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and, and, and, and the US should be, in our view, aligned with Israel because the US benefits from that alignment.

It’s not that we believe that there’s some inherent reason.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: just kind of like if, if we had a, a family member. [00:43:00] Who was like severely addicted to drugs and stealing from other family members. Like some people are like, well, that person deserves to be taken care of no matter what. No, we cut them off. And like that’s a family tradition of Malcolm.

Like even more ruthless than that. Like basically if you’re not succeeding, like well, don’t come to me. So final

Malcolm Collins: question for you on this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Venezuela do about it. Do you think we should intervene? They’ve got a lot of oil. They’ve got a lot of rare earth minerals. They, we have political capital to intervene because of the Nobel Prize.

What do you think?

Simone Collins: I feel like there are things going on with Venezuela that we don’t know about.

Malcolm Collins: I, I feel like they’re already intervening in a way that’s doesn’t require full on the ground operations. That’s sort of where I am with that right now. I think,

Simone Collins: I mean, Trump keeps saying like, we’ve got plans.

I, I can’t tell you about them.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: the fact is the Nobel Prize winner seemed so indebted to Trump leads me to believe that he’s probably working with them pretty aggressively.

Simone Collins: [00:44:00] Maybe I, I really don’t know. I’m, I’m just not enough. I’m not informed enough about this, but I also, one thing that I really do like about Trump is he is also very mercenary and therefore pragmatic in his, I think, view with alliance is, except for when he’s being sort of flattered and aesthetically.

Malcolm Collins: Which is a problem. The person who we need to convince of this plan is Jared Kushner. If Jared Kushner gets on board with it, we can get Trump on board with it.

Simone Collins: I, I mean, I don’t, I don’t know, I don’t know if Jared Kushner is sufficiently mercenary, but I, I, I feel like at least with Venezuela, Trump, I, if he’s gonna do something, it’s because he thinks that there is a very distinct.

Benefit to the United States. Oh, by

Malcolm Collins: the way, another crazy thing that’s happened recently. Have you seen the riots in Mexico recently?

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s crazy. Right?

Malcolm Collins: And that they’re calling for America intervention. Yeah. Like America, military occupation of Mexico called for by the younger generation.

That’s [00:45:00] another episode.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I’ve often pointed out if we did occupy Mexico and integrated Mexico into the United States we could make the border Mexico southern border, which would be incredibly easy to defend. It’s an incredibly small, a harder to cross border. And it would be so much easier to make it the 51st state. It’s culturally very similar to us anyway.

Simone Collins: In some ways. In some ways it’s very, very distinct. But yeah, that’s a whole nother episode.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to DeSimone.

Simone Collins: I love you too, gorgeous.

Malcolm Collins: Bye.

Simone Collins: There. Wait, I’m on the wrong side. Oh, I learned something that I just find quite interesting that has nothing to do with stuff we normally cover in our podcasts, but are you familiar with Helium three?

Malcolm Collins: No. Tell me about it.

Simone Collins: This [00:46:00] like, I think it was someone who follows our podcast who shared with this with me, but like.

Basically there’s, there’s gold in the mar hills. It, it’s just the, the hills are the moon and the gold is helium three. And it’s basically current nuclear power plants use fission of uranium, as you know, but like, obviously we prefer a future with nuclear fission. But. Right now, it’s not really that feasible apparently.

It, it both is really lossy in terms of energy and it also produces neutrons. But fusion using helium three it, it results in basically what’s called a neutronic reactions, and it produces power without neutrons, minimal waste, and virtually no radiation. So kind of like interesting, perfect fusion. But where are we gonna get the [00:47:00] helium three?

Because it’s really, really scarce on Earth. Like only around 15 kilograms annually are produced of, of Helium three on Earth as a byproduct of nuclear weapons maintenance. So it’s not exactly like abundant here, but the moon surface. May have as much as 1.1 million metric tons of helium three.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that’d be so cool.

A, a viable economic reason for a moon base.

Simone Collins: There’s golden in hills, I’m telling you.

Malcolm Collins: Can

Simone Collins: we, it’s up there. Moon

Malcolm Collins: Base, I,

Simone Collins: Russia, the US have announced ambitious plans actually for, for lunar mining. Related to this because it’s such a big freaking deal. Like basically I, I think 20, just 25 tons. Yeah, 25 tons of helium. Three taken from a lunar mine. That’s one space. Shell, argo. So just [00:48:00] one space, one, one trip, right. Could power the United States for a year.

Our whole country, and we’re not exactly like the light on electricity country. Right. Like we’re, we’re, we’re kind of big energy hogs. Right. So that’s, that’s just how valuable it’s, but yeah. Going after it or something? No, no. Actually he’s said nothing about the moon so far, as I’ve heard, and Russia and the US have announced ambitious plans for lunar mining, but they haven’t materialized China.

Is actively pursuing Luter exploration. Well, it matters. Everything was

Malcolm Collins: AI to be able to get more power.

Simone Collins: I know. That’s the thing. So it looks like China. Has stages for its lunar exploration planned. And they’ve completed early stages already. So China’s kind of, they might be eating our lunch on ai, but not, not through the means you would think, but it’s because they, they’re going for the moon better than we are

Malcolm Collins: helium.

Well, no, I mean, as soon as we start to get in, AI is developing so quickly who will be able [00:49:00] to develop things like. Missions like this on its own.

Simone Collins: Oh, so you think that we’ll still get to the moon?

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. Sure.

Simone Collins: As long as we have smart ai and then we’ll just Okay. So you think the bottleneck as an energy initially, it’s more just

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, just getting AI to where it’s gonna be and we’re like way ahead of China on that

Simone Collins: stuff and, and using it smartly.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But yeah, I don’t know. I, I kind of feel like we’re, we’re sleeping on the space race now, and that Elon Musk is overly focused on Mars and needs to get on the moon here. Well,

Malcolm Collins: all this debt could be used for the moon.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, yeah. And it is also he’s setting up supply chains and models built around.

More sustainable forms of like space, cargo, mining and, you know, getting stuff. So like harvesting helium three, I mean, so the feasibility of harvesting and, and, and processing it remains to be seen. Of course, this is kind of theoretical at this point ‘cause no one’s tried because you have to heat the helium up, I think to like negative 60 degrees Celsius.

I can’t remember the exact number, but like, it’s really, [00:50:00] really cold on the moon. And you have to make it slightly less really, really cold to get it out. And I don’t know how they’re gonna do that. I mean, AI can figure it out to your point, right? So it doesn’t really matter if China’s hanging out on the moon.

It doesn’t matter if they have a fricking moon base, if they can’t get it off the moon. Yeah. So fair point there. Like we have to actually get there and be able to take it out and take it back. But anyway, I just thought I’d share that with you. And thanks to our amazing listeners who share weird stuff like this with us, it’s really cool.

Malcolm Collins: Alright.

Speaker 3: Look at this. Look at this. What are you doing? I, you, I’m, this is my beef lo mane that my wife made. Look at this. Could you imagine if you had this every night? Oh my God. Could you imagine? It’s so tender. You guys have no idea. Yeah, it’s.

Speaker 9: All right here. Right here. Perfect. Up. That’s stable. Very stable. Stable. I up. Mommy. [00:51:00] If you get a bag and I can’t get this straight up for you, that’s not a cookie. I can get that. Do you want a cookie? Okay.

Speaker 10: Yeah, it would be so cool. Wow. That’s so cool. Good job you guys. That way while always so my hand, it is your hand until you tried to eat it. You want a real picture? My, I wanna see what the picture looks like. My picture. I love you toasty and I.

In this episode, Simone and Malcolm Collins dive deep into the controversial topic of SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and their impact on fertility, sexual development, and mental health—especially among left-leaning youth. Drawing from recent studies, personal anecdotes, and a New York Times Magazine article, they explore how SSRIs may be contributing to declining birth rates, lasting sexual side effects, and shifting cultural attitudes toward relationships and intimacy.

The discussion covers:

* The growing criticism and negative sentiment around SSRIs on social media

* Case studies of individuals experiencing long-term sexual dysfunction after SSRI use

* The lack of transparency from medical professionals about potential side effects, especially for teens

* The intersection of mental health, political affiliation, and prescription trends

* Broader societal factors, including endocrine disruptors and cultural shifts, that may be affecting fertility and sexuality

This is once again a Simone-outlined episode, so the outline is below, including links, and you’ll find the transcript after it. Thanks so much for your support!

Episode Outline: Leftists Are Being Sterilized by SSRIs

* We’ve touched on the fact that fertility rates among people on the left and the right are diverging

* We’ve made it clear much of the issue is cultural

* We’ve even suggested that it’s due to infectious diseases and parasites

* But it’s more than that

* It may be that largely left-leaning young people are throwing off their sexual development by taking SSRIs and the NY Times is trying to raise awareness about the issue

* According to a recent article, “Depending on the symptom, ​d​rug and duration of use, between 30 and 80 percent of adults taking S.S.R.I.s live to varying degrees with diminished desire, sensation and function, according to a 2019 study in The Journal of Clinical Medicine. “

* But the problem may be worse when teens are taking these medications, as they’re in the middle of sexual development

* So let’s dive in and see what’s going on

Case Studies:

This is all inspired by an NY Times Magazine article in which Daniel Bergner interviewed more than 20 people with PSSD (post SSRI sexual dysfunction)

More Teens Are Taking Antidepressants. It Could Disrupt Their Sex Lives for Years.

Research on adults who take S.S.R.I.s shows they tamp down sexual desire. Why aren’t we studying what that could mean for adolescents who take them?

Archived Article: https://archive.is/NdBDe#selection-1387.0-1387.900

Some of Bergner’s opening case studies:

* “Marie began taking fluoxetine, the generic form of Prozac, when she was 15. The drug — an S.S.R.I., a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor — was part of her treatment in an outpatient program for an eating disorder. It took its toll on her sexuality. “I was in touch with initial sparks of sexual energy relatively young,” she said, remembering crushes as far back as the age of 6 or 7. Shortly before starting on the drug, she was dazzled, from a distance, by a blue-eyed hockey player at school, tall and funny and charismatic. She recalled the fluster and fantasies he stirred. But on the medication, she felt the infatuation vanish swiftly.

* “And then,” Marie said, “I realized, Oh, I’m not developing new crushes.” She had no clue that the drug might be the cause: “I wasn’t informed about sexual side effects.”

* Even as the worst of the eating disorder abated, psychiatrists and family doctors told Marie and her parents that she should stay on an antidepressant. She complied, while trying and failing to escape the sexual side effects. She traded fluoxetine for other antidepressants, including Wellbutrin, a different class of antidepressant, which is sometimes prescribed to combat low libido. She’s 38 now and has been off psychiatric medication for six years. But sexual desire remains absent. “For me it’s just an empty dark space,” she said. “There’s nothing there.”

* One of the most haunting accounts I heard of PSSD came from a parent. Ruth told me that a couple of decades ago her daughter was prescribed Zoloft, an S.S.R.I., at 11 by a psychiatrist, after a humiliating incident at school “left her feeling out of sorts and anxious.” About the prescription, Ruth said, “I guess I thought that was a good thing.” She spoke of her naïveté at the time and “blind trust” in psychiatry. Her daughter wound up staying on the drug for a decade, until 2011. Only over the past few years has Ruth learned, from her daughter, about the sexual side effects she still lives with and about her grief. “Her erogenous zones don’t work,” Ruth said. “It makes me deeply sad, because our sexuality, the pleasure we get from our bodies and our intimacy with another person, it’s such a beautiful experience; it helps us to feel not alone.” Thinking back, Ruth said, “I have huge, terrible regret” about allowing her child to be medicated. “I can’t believe I so easily said yes.”

The Rise of PSSD

* More professionals are starting to recognize it.

* “The DSM-5, the most recent edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, states that “in some cases, serotonin-reuptake-inhibitor-induced sexual dysfunction may persist after the agent is discontinued.”

* “The E.U.’s European Medicines Agency has issued similar words of caution, as have regulators in Canada, Australia and Hong Kong. In the United States, Prozac comes with a warning about the problem. And advocacy groups for consumers are pushing the Food and Drug Administration to require all S.S.R.I.s, the most commonly prescribed class of antidepressants, to carry such warnings.”

How Many People are on SSRIs?

Approximately 11–13% of American adults report current use of antidepressants, with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) making up the majority of these prescriptions. Recent national health surveys show that in 2023, 11.4% of U.S. adults took prescription medication for depression, a number that has remained fairly stable in recent years but represents a significant increase over the past decade

How Many Young People are Taking SSRIs?

* From the article: “Around two million 12-to-17-year-olds in the United States are on S.S.R.I.s. One large 2024 study in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics tallied, month by month, the percentage of that age group who filled an antidepressant prescription between 2016 and 2022. During that time, the rate climbed by 69 percent, with the Covid pandemic’s emotional reverberations almost surely playing a part, though a notable rise was underway before then. Among college students in 2023-24, according to a survey with over 100,000 participants, 22 percent had taken an antidepressant during the previous year. This was up from 8 percent in 2007.”

How Many SSRI Users Are Affected?

* From the article: “In one study, erectile dysfunction affected less than 1 percent of former S.S.R.I. users, while another found that genital numbness impacted at least 13 percent of those surveyed. But either way, PSSD may have urgent implications for young people.”

The Role of Serotonin in Desire, Love, and Bonding

It is well known that SSRIs have a sexual dulling effect in general

* As ___ points out in the article: “Because of their predictable dulling effects, S.S.R.I.s have long been used as an off-label treatment for premature ejaculation.”

What’s underplayed is how SSRIs will affect what we would argue matters more—interest in dating AT ALL—like, high school crushes and infatuation

* Serotonin plays a distinct and evolving role in infatuation and love bonding. During early-stage infatuation, serotonin levels tend to decrease, a change linked to obsessive, intrusive thoughts and behaviors frequently described as hallmark features of new romantic attraction. This mirrors the pattern found in people with obsessive-compulsive disorder, likely explaining the all-consuming, “can’t stop thinking about you” feeling so common in early love

The NY Times article also points out OTHER ways SSRIs may be causing sexual dysfunction.

* Bergner interviewed Dr. Irwin Goldstein, “a clinical professor of urology at the University of California, San Diego, and a specialist in sexual medicine who sees 50 to 75 new patients each year for erectile dysfunction”

* Dr. Goldstein has been researching the role SSRIs play in his patients’ ED oproblems and noted that “S.S.R.I.s can cause an overproduction of what are called oxygen radicals, leading to scarring and malfunctioning… The physiological effect of S.S.R.I.s within the penis looked closely akin to the impact of aging and diseases that are well-established contributors to erectile dysfunction.”

* Rodent studies have also linked past SSRI use to just lower sexual performance:

* Bergner noted: “In a 2010 study published in Biological Psychiatry, researchers gave male rats a generic Prozac at the age of rat adolescence, allowed sufficient time for the drug to clear from their systems, then monitored the males’ sexual behavior, in adulthood, when in the presence of a receptive female. Compared with a control group, the previously medicated rats were much slower to mount, took much longer from starting sex to ejaculation and, within any one session, ejaculated much less often. Not all similar experiments have produced data quite so definitive, and results with female subjects have been a bit blurry, maybe because female rodent sexuality is trickier to measure. But all in all, the rodent research carries cautionary implications.”

Do More Leftists Use SSRIs?

* Large national surveys consistently show that liberals or Democrats report worse mental health outcomes than conservatives or Republicans, and this gap has widened in recent years.​

* See:

* Distressed Democrats and relaxed Republicans? Partisanship and mental health during the COVID-19 pandemic

* Democrats reported consistently higher levels of mental distress than Republicans during the pandemic.

* This “partisan distress gap” predated the pandemic but was exacerbated by it, especially among white Americans.

* White Democrats experienced the greatest increase in distress, resulting in a widening distress gap between white Democrats and white Republicans.

* The politics of depression: Diverging trends in internalizing symptoms among US adolescents by political beliefs

* All adolescents show rising internalizing symptoms, but increases are most pronounced among female liberals, especially those with low parental education.

* Female liberal adolescents: Had the largest increases and highest absolute scores for depressive affect, particularly those from less privileged backgrounds.

* Male conservative adolescents: Had the lowest increases and the best scores across internalizing symptom scales.

* Among people who rate their mental health as poor or who screen positive for depression, a greater proportion identify as liberal than conservative.​

* ALSO” conservatives are less likely to seek mental health treatment or to acknowledge mental health problems, suggesting some of the difference may reflect reporting bias as well as potential stigma differences.​

* See: Mental Health and Mental Health Care Utilization Across Political Affiliation in US Adults

* Researchers assessed whether depression rates and mental health care utilization differ by political party affiliation in U.S. adults.

* In Spring 2023, positive screens for depression were similar among Republicans and Democrats—no significant difference was found.

* However, Republicans were less likely than Democrats to have received mental health treatment in the past 12 months.

Important side note: Doctors largely are not telling patients—even adult patients—about sexual side effects.

* From the article: “Peggy J. Kleinplatz, a professor of medicine at the University of Ottawa, told me about a moment that shed light on how family physicians and other primary-care providers — who write the majority of S.S.R.I. prescriptions in the United States and Canada — might be thinking about informed consent with patients. In 2019, Kleinplatz gave a presentation to family physicians at a Canadian medical conference. She asked her audience of some 50 doctors how many of them were aware of the sexual side effects of S.S.R.I.s. “Eighty percent raised their hands,” she estimated. She asked how many informed their patients about these effects when they prescribed. “Just one hand went up.” Then she asked why they didn’t. “They said it’s a matter of patient compliance.” To inform about potential sexual side effects, they worried, was to risk the patient not taking the drug that the doctor thought necessary.”

* And of course doctors don’t want to bring up sexual side effects when talking about parents of teens

So Are Leftists Sterilizing Themselves (Further) with SSRIs?

It could be argued, yes, but obviously there are many factors that are making people of ALL backgrounds less sexual

Other Factors Dampening Sexuality or Sterilizing Populations

* Arguably, parasites and other diseases

* E.g. toxoplasmosis hurting sperm quality

* Endocrine disruptors

* We’re constantly going on about the TIDES studies

* Common EDCs include bisphenol A (BPA), phthalates, dioxins, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), pesticides, parabens, and some heavy metals. These are found in plastics, food containers, cosmetics, pesticides, and various industrial products

* Effects

* Women: EDCs are linked to lowered fertility, menstrual irregularities, polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), endometriosis, premature menopause, uterine and ovarian dysfunction, as well as increased risk of miscarriage and pregnancy complications.​

* Men: Disruptors can decrease sperm count and quality, reduce testosterone, cause genital malformations, and increase risk of testicular or prostate disorders.​

So long story short, we’re all screwed, but this NY times article highlights that people who take SSRIs, especially while young, are screwed even more.

Episode Transcript:

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you today because we’re gonna be talking about how leftists are being. Sterilized by SSRIs. We’ve already touched on the fact that fertility rates among the people on the left and the right are diverging and more quickly than before, that sort of the left is just, is tanking.

And we, they’re

Malcolm Collins: circling the drain of society at

Simone Collins: this point. It’s faster and faster screaming

Malcolm Collins: into the void.

Simone Collins: It’s, it’s, it’s clearly it’s cultural. We’ve also talked about how maybe it’s also a result of infectious disease and parasites disproportionately affect people. I also

Malcolm Collins: point out that, sSRIs more broadly have become known as like really negative.

So I decided to run a sentiment analysis on next X of what people are saying about SSRIs.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: 80% of the posts right now on X about SSRIs are negative. Oh. With only 10% being positive and 10% being neutral.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s very interesting. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: And we can go into that more later in this, but yeah, basically everyone is now like SSRI.

Well, well, [00:01:00] growing up it felt like there was this campaign to normalize SSRIs really, really strongly. Like everybody needs to be on them. They’re this miracle drug. And now I, I think now that media has sort of decentralized and you can’t have these decentralized campaigns anymore, people’s individual experiences are coming through.

Simone Collins: Wow. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But

Simone Collins: continue, yeah, I mean, so that there’s, that obviously people are becoming increasingly critical of them, but it, it may be that largely left-leaning young people specifically are throwing off their sexual development by taking SSRIs and the New York Times is trying to raise. Awareness about this, which is huge and really interesting because I, I didn’t think about this element of it.

So, according to a recent article in, in New York Times magazine quote, depending on the symptom, drug and duration of use, between 30 and 80% of adults taking SSRIs live to varying degrees with diminished [00:02:00] desire, sensation, and function According to a 2019 study in the Journal of Clinical Medicine, wait,

Malcolm Collins: what percent.

Simone Collins: 30 to 80% of adults, 30

Malcolm Collins: to

Simone Collins: 80%. And it’s not just, I, I thought like, I mean, in the past I’ve, I’ve been vaguely aware of the fact that if you’re on an SSRA, like maybe your sex drive is gonna be down. But in this article in which the, the author interviews like quite a few people who have experienced issues related to SSRIs that are sexual in nature.

Like sometimes we’re just talking about like numbness of. Intimate areas like beyond just diminished sex drive, like actual pretty serious issues. , And , the problem and, and what the New York Times is really trying to begin to delve into with this article is that when this is, is happening to teens, like it’s one thing with adults where this is pervasively understood and people are aware of it and they’re just experiencing.

Real and [00:03:00] also lasting effects. When this happens to a teen or an adolescent who’s going through sexual development for the first time, this might permanently affect the way that they exist sexually. Yeah. Kind of is similar to how, you know, if you take youth gender medicine as, as, as a kid, it’s going to permanently affect.

Your sexual development, maybe SSRIs are doing something similar. It’s just that you don’t really look at it as youth, gender medicine. And, and really the crux of this too is that not only are, are psych psychiatrists, right? They’re the ones who prescribe medications.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, psychiatrists prescribed.

Simone Collins: And not only are they loath to bring up sexual side effects with anyone. But like if you’re about to prescribe an SSRI to, we’ll say like a teenage boy or girl and their parents present, they’re present. You’re not gonna talk with them about sexual side effects because. That’s a really good point. What, why are you trying to, why [00:04:00] are you warning my girl that she’s not gonna wanna have sex?

I don’t want her to have sex. Like, what? What, you know, like, so this is, it’s one of those issues where there’s all these adverse incentives at play, but let’s get into some of like just some, I think, illustrative, evocative case studies that this, this magazine article began with. Because I think it helps to sort of.

Set this scene. Okay. Okay. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: let’s go.

Simone Collins: Daniel Berger interviewed the au that’s the author of the article, more Than 20 People with PSSD. That’s post SSRI, sexual Dysfunction for this article titled More teens are taking antidepressants, it could disrupt their sex lives for years. So here’s one. I’ll just read the quote.

In which he, he has interviewed Marie. Marie began taking. Fluoxetine, the generic form of Prozac. When she was 15, the drug an S-S-R-I-A selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor was part of her treatment in an outpatient program for an eating disorder. It took its toll on her sexuality. Quote, I was in touch with [00:05:00] initial sparks of sexual energy, relatively young.

End quote, she said, remembering crushes as. Far back as the ages of six or seven. Shortly before starting on the drug, she was dazzled from a distance by a blue-eyed hockey player at school, tall and funny and charismatic. She recalled the fluster in fantasies, he stirred, but on the medication she fell infatuation.

She felt infatuation, vanished, swiftly. And then Marie said, I realized, oh, I’m not developing new crushes. She had no clue that the drug might be the cause. I wasn’t informed about sexual side effects, even at the worst of the eating disorder as the worst of the eating disorder. Abated psychiatrists and family doctors told Marie and her parents that she should stay on the antidepressant. She complied while trying and failing to escape the sexual side effects. She traded fluoxetine for other antidepressants, including Wellbutrin, a different class of antidepressant, which sometimes prescribed to combat low libido.

She’s 38 now. So like [00:06:00] our age, by the way. Yeah. And been off psychiatric medication for six years, but sexual desire remains absent. Quote for me. It’s just an empty, dark space. She said there’s nothing there. Wow. There’s another case that, that actually comes from a parent. That this guy interviewed which is, is is kind of dark and sad.

And, and keep in mind this is, we’re talking about longitudinal cases. Actually,

Malcolm Collins: before we get to the parent thing, I actually wanna take a, a, a side note here. I, it is, it is true that SSRIs do lower sexual libido and everything like that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But one of the things that I’ve been seeing a lot online.

Is a lot of women identifying as ace or talking about how they never really felt, you know, attractive, like active arousal towards other people. And Simone is this way too. Like if you di diagnose RNA spectrum, you’d be ace. But for Malcolm, like you, you, he asexual. But at least that’s what you tell me. Who

Simone Collins: I say I’m, I’m gay for Malcolm.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Who’s to know if, if this isn’t just something you tell me to, to keep me [00:07:00] happy, you know,

Simone Collins: I’m, I’m no. You know, from the anecdotes of me trying to break into your room at night, but you’ve bolted the door,

Malcolm Collins: but dare

Simone Collins: you,

Malcolm Collins: the, the the point I was going to make here is I think that our society, because.

If you live around the urban monoculture, it tells you that your identity is what arouses you. You know, like that’s the most important part of who you are, oh, is the things that arouse you. And so, and, and indulging in those things is the best part of life.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I think some people, they grow up and a lot of people they grow up and they’re just like, but like, those things aren’t that powerful or aren’t that great.

And I think that. For if you are a teenage guy or girl. Sexuality might be like a really strong and big part of your life. And in some percent of the population, sexuality stays a really strong and big part of their life as they age. [00:08:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: However, I think in, I might even argue the average person, just like when you are a adult sexuality, and I’m talking like thirties here, right.

Which this person is, is just not that big a thing. It’s, it’s like not that big a deal. And I think that many. People misdiagnose themselves, especially women as asexual or not having sexual desire. And what they actually have is reactive sexual desire. Mm-hmm. Which over 50% of women have. Mm-hmm. Which means you only get aroused when somebody is actively basically like rubbing on you, acting on you, making a move on you.

Right. Like, you don’t, you don’t just like look at somebody and get turned on. In the same way that that it’s being sold to you is gonna happen.

Simone Collins: Ooh, interesting theory. Because a really big element in the past associated with courting often had to do with dancing, like ballroom dancing, waltzing, et cetera.

Yeah. I wonder if part of that kind of naturally evolved as a cultural mechanism to [00:09:00] ignite reactive desire in women.

Malcolm Collins: I think

Simone Collins: it did forcing people to

Malcolm Collins: touch each other

Simone Collins: and dance around. Mm-hmm. And in a coordinated fashion also while making eye contact. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Interesting. But I, I’m, I am gonna make an argument a little bit later as to why, actually this is pretty damaging when it comes to even we’ll say non-sexual relationship formation.

So we’ll get there, but one more, one more little case study that I was like, oof. So reading again from the article, one of the most haunting accounts I heard of PSSD came from a parent. Ruth told me that a couple of decades ago her daughter was prescribed Zoloft, an SSRI at 1111. Sorry, I just think that’s crazy.

A by a psychiatrist after a humiliating incident at school left her feeling out of sorts and anxious about the prescription. Ruth said, I guess I thought it was a good thing. She spoke of her naivete at the time and the blind trust in psychiatry. Her daughter wound up staying. On the drug for a decade until 2011, only after the past few years as Ruth [00:10:00] learned from her daughter about the sexual side effects that she still lives with and about her grief, her erogenous zones don’t work.

Ruth said It makes me deeply sad because of. Because our sexuality, the pleasure we get from our bodies and our intimacy with another person. It’s such a beautiful experience. It helps us not feel alone. Thinking back, Ruth said, I have a huge, terrible regret about allowing her child to be medicated. I can’t believe I so easily said yes.

And I think this is indicative of, of the broader thing. I’m with you, Malcolm, that like, I don’t care that much if like people aren’t feeling intense. Hedonic pleasure from. From sex, but I think it’s still notable. So now basically, as the New York Times article is pointing out, there’s this slow bubbling rise in discussion about PSSD.

More professionals are starting to recognize it. It’s. Being a little bit more recognized in academic literature. So for example, the DSM five, which is the most recent edition of the [00:11:00] Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, states that quote, in most cases, serotonin reuptake, inhibitor induced sexual dysfunction may persist after the agent is discontinued.

And, and this. Is kind of a big deal because I think most people thought that the side effects only happen while you’re taking the thing, and now it’s becoming increasingly recognized to have lasting effects. Also from the article, the eus, European Medicines agencies issued similar words of caution as have regulators in Canada, Australia, Hong Kong, and the United States.

Prozac comes with a warning. About the problem and advocacy groups for consumers are pushing for the food and drug administration to require all SSRIs, the most commonly prescribed class of antidepressants to carry such warnings. So just a little bigger picture thing, how many people are actually on SSRIs?

I mean, as you pointed out, Malcolm, they are becoming less popular. They’re becoming more criticized, but still. Approximately 11 to 13% of American adults report currently use of antidepressants with [00:12:00] selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors making up the majority of those prescriptions. So one outta 10 people, at least in the US is on one of these now.

And remember that the side effects are lasting region national health surveys. What?

Malcolm Collins: Did you take SSRIs?

Simone Collins: Never.

Malcolm Collins: I did.

Simone Collins: You did? Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I did. I don’t know for how long. I, I do remember taking them. But I don’t remember for how long.

Simone Collins: Well, keep in mind, my family just didn’t believe in, it was never something we talked about.

My parents were never like, well, we don’t believe in taking medicine. But like,

Malcolm Collins: oh yeah, I re Yeah. I took SSRIs for only a short period.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I took Lithium for a much longer period.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But that was only ‘cause like your, your mom kind of forced you.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. By mom, it is crazy. And if, if, if we’d act up, she’d be like, oh, this must be because there’s something wrong with it.

Like basically she went through mood swings all the time and she would assume that it was us going through a mood swing rather than her going through a mood swing. Yeah. Because she’s like, but you behaved so differently between different weeks. And I’m like, it’s you [00:13:00] mom.

Simone Collins: Was lithium the thing that paralyzed you?

Malcolm Collins: . It might have been. Yeah. Something caused like bad effects. I stopped taking all

Simone Collins: my medication. Something your mom had made you take that you were still taking when we met. Caused you to get like paralyzed sometimes. Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: I, I stopped

Simone Collins: taking this really freaking freaked me out.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t but what’s funny is the drugs that I would promote for our kids is all of the drugs that other people would freak out the most about.

I think, uh. ritalin is a really useful drug for young people. Just get ‘em on amphetamines. I’m like, you need that to study sometimes, you know, it’s hard when it’s, you know, too

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. Except, here’s the thing, I, I kind of question that we’ll need them because yet you need them When you’re working within a system that’s inherently broken, like.

School system where you like need to do all these things, but I don’t know if our kids are gonna be playing that. I used it to get like work projects done it. It is useful to get stuff done. You don’t use it now and you get a lot done. You’re insanely productive. You go into [00:14:00] defocus all the time. I think also the thing with A DHD and a DD is you.

Focus on stuff, you know, to be important and interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I, well, I literally haven’t taken one in like 10 years.

Simone Collins: That’s because you do work that you find to be meaningful and interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But as a kid you, not everything you do is gonna

Simone Collins: be meaningful. Okay. That’s fair. I guess. Yeah. So yeah, when you have to learn stuff that you don’t think is useful and that you don’t wanna learn.

Malcolm Collins: And then of course, the other one that I always promote on the show and everyone should be on, I think it should just be a mandated drug, is naltrexone. It’s an, it is an opioid agonist that prevents addictive pathways from firing in your brain. Yeah. And it. Completely transformed. Like, everything I do is my life.

Like the way I spend my time online, the way I, you know, like I stopped using social media after it. Like literally, I got, I, I stopped. I, I go to my Facebook account and it’s like cobwebs. It used to be the first thing I would check every morning. I stopped compulsively refreshing newspaper sites.

Mm-hmm. I stopped compulsively refreshing. [00:15:00] Investment tickers. I stopped, you know, like all of the compulsive stuff I would do online. Just, just, it really

Simone Collins: was a constant thing for you. Yeah. Yeah. That’s,

Although, I mean, although you are pretty hooked on Korean and romance manga, so,

Malcolm Collins: you know, I, you know, what’s gotten me off of that is, is prepaying for one that I think is like.

Okay. But pretty boring. Oh, I know. So I, I’m not like drawn to it when other things are happening. That’s so funny. Getting, getting stuck in a boring one has been great to break my addiction. ‘cause I’m like, well, I prepaid food. I gotta read through the whole thing.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So, okay. About, you know, 10 to 11 to 13% of, of Americans in general are taking ssra according to the article.

About 2,000,012 to 17 year olds in the United States are on SSRIs One large 2024 study in the Journal of American Academy of Pediatrics tallied month by month the percentage of that age group who fi filled an antidepressant prescription between 2016 and 2022. During that time, the rate climbed by [00:16:00] 69% with the COVID pandemic’s emotional reverberations.

Almost surely playing a part though notable rise was underway. Four. Then among college students in 2023 to 24, according to a survey with over 10 100,000 participants, 22% had taken an antidepressant during the previous year. This was up 8% from 2007. So, so keep in mind young people are taking them more.

And actually this, this, this is totally unrelated. This morning I was going through a British psychology digest in my email about, there, there used to be this sort of happiness shaped curve with like sort of how happy you were in life, where like people were happier when they were young and then very old.

But now it’s just kind of going upward. Like you just get happier as you get older because young people are so miserable. So, kind of dovetails with this. Like we, the, the youth mental health crisis is real and a lot of them are turning to SSRIs. But then, you know, in terms of like how many SSRI users are affected by [00:17:00] this, I don’t like, it’s, it’s hard to tell ‘cause the reporting’s so shoddy.

In, in the article, the, the author writes in one study. Ed, I’m not gonna say what, you know, the, the thing where you have trouble getting, you know, affected less than 1% of former SSRI users, while, while another found that genital numbness impacted at least 13% of those surveyed numbness. I never heard about that as a side effect.

I’ve

never

Malcolm Collins: heard about this either. No.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But either way, PSSD may have urgent implications for young people. So this is. This is where I think you’re missing the importance of the effect of this with regard to, we’ll say like relationship formation and everything, and

Malcolm Collins: it’s important to note. To what Simone’s, assuming that progressives take psychoactive medications like SSRIs.

Simone Collins: Oh, I’m gonna go into the stats on this in a little bit. Okay, great. Continue. Yeah. But first I just wanna point out why this matters. So it is well known that SSRIs do have a, [00:18:00] a sexual duing effect in general, as the author points out quote, because of their predictable dulling effects. Sr. SSRIs have long been.

Used as an off-label treatment for premature ejaculation, which also I didn’t know, but like they’re so well known to cause problems that they’re like, oh, you’re coming too fast here. Take an SSRI. But what’s underplayed is how SSRIs will affect what we would argue matters more, which is interest in dating at all.

Like high school crushes and infatuation, which is what was pointed to in that first anecdote, which is why I wanted to read it. So serotonin plays a really distinct and evolving role in infatuation and love bonding. Like I’m not even talking about the act of sex or making out or anything physical.

I’m talking literally about like this stuff that gets people to date and maybe eventually get married and like be interested in the opposite sex. During early stage infatuation serotonin levels tend to decrease, which is a change linked to obsessive intrusive thoughts and [00:19:00] behaviors frequently described as a hallmark feature of.

New romantic attraction, but what else? Oh, also like OCD and anxiety, which is what SSRIs are meant to treat. So the, the problem is if people are taking SSRIs to treat things like obsessive compulsive disorder or you know, that you’re also treating that sort of, I, I can’t stop thinking about you infatuation associated with early love.

You’re making it impossible for people to experience. The thrill of limerence and new relationship energy, which we’ve had people who listen to this podcast be like, man, like, you know, I have thriving young kids, but they’re just not really interested in dating at all. And the thing is like, if you don’t feel crushes, if you don’t feel that infatuation.

Why would you bother? Honestly, like it’s just all downside, not upside. I think it’s one of the, one of the few things that really gets

whole,

Malcolm Collins: this is so fun that now when somebody tells you like I’m asexual or [00:20:00] aromantic, you can just be like, are you on SSRIs? Just to,

Simone Collins: no, seriously,

because

Malcolm Collins: you know, like 80% of the time the answer’s gonna be yes.

And you’re gonna be, it’s probably the ssri

Simone Collins: Yeah, it’s, it’s just the SSR or, yeah. Yeah. You know, just same with

Malcolm Collins: like, I can’t imagine how, how, how like blown top a progressive is gonna be if you pull that on them.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It’s probably the ss RI.

Simone Collins: Well, and also the, the, it’s, it’s not just, so, I just, I wanna point that out though, like in terms of like the larger people aren’t getting married, problem.

I think one of the few things that did get people out and dating when otherwise it’s just so scary, is that thrill and the thrill is being robbed of them.

Malcolm Collins: The thing is, is they’re also like not even that effective. I remember the period I was on SSRIs, I did not feel any different. Like I certainly wasn’t happier.

Simone Collins: Oh really?

So wildly. There was actually a study on this, a meta-analysis in 2022 in molecular psychiatry, which showed SSRIs outperformed Ali placebos by only a very [00:21:00] thin margin with an effect size of only 0.3, , which is no better than exercise or therapy.

So they’re tanking their sexuality and fertility for. Nothing for no real benefit. And if you wanna come at me and be like, oh no, SSRIs would work so well for me, it’s like, yeah, placebos are really good. Like placebos actually do work very effectively.

If you are curious how out of control things have gotten, there was a study called antidepressant dispensing to use adolescents and young adults 2016 to 2022. That was looking at how much the rate of SSRI, , prescriptions had increased over that period. So if we go from 2016 to 2022, and we’re looking at females age 12 to 17, the rate of prescriptions increased 129.6%.

If we look at females age 18 to 25, it increased 56.5%. If we look at males age 12 to [00:22:00] 17, there was not an increase. And if we looked at males age 18 to 25, there was not an increase, which I think correlates strongly with females becoming more progressive here because as we’ve seen in many, many other studies, , progressives are way lower on happiness ratings in conservatives and have been since.

The Pew started recording the data on this, but it’s been getting worse over time and Progressive. Both depression and anxiety symptoms are way higher than they are in conservatives. , Same with females, and this is increasing over time.

Speaker 7: truth is the enemy of happiness. Have you had your joy Ollie?

Speaker 8: People in town

Are unli at unprecedented rates and nobody’s having kids anymore.

Speaker 9: and they’re.

Pete in the streets, in rainbows, have you not noticed?

Speaker 7: Oh, Ollie,

Speaker 9: why are you all wearing those ridiculous new

Gender identities.

Speaker 7: ?

You should get one. They shape your face into a smile, and when you smile, you can’t help being happy.

Speaker 10: We [00:23:00] have to tell people they need to know the truth.

Speaker 7: No, it’s better not to know.

Speaker 12: We are practically the only two people in missing. Di City, not stone. Out of our minds on joy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The

Simone Collins: way that one person in the article described it who was taking SSRIs for anxiety or something was that it didn’t make the anxiety go away. It like provided a moat around it. So like it was there but it couldn’t get to him as easily. Is that kind of how it felt? Because I don’t, I dunno.

No.

Malcolm Collins: And literally. Nothing, not different in any way.

Simone Collins: Also, no wonder you took it for only such a short period of time, but the New York Times also points to other ways SSRIs may be causing sexual dysfunction. So Berger, the author, interviewed Dr. Irwin Goldstein, who’s a clinical professor of urology at the University of California San Diego.

He’s a specialist in sexual medicine who sees about 50 to 75 new patients each year for ed. And here’s a quote from the article. Dr. Goldstein has been recently. Researching the role of SSRIs in his patient’s ed problems and noted [00:24:00] that SSRIs can cause an overproduction of what are called oxygen radicals leading to scarring and malfunctioning the physiological effect of SSRIs within the can I say, can I say the P word? Within the pp? Within the flippy, as our children call it?

Malcolm Collins: Within the flippy,

Simone Collins: within the technical term. Scarring in

Malcolm Collins: the flippy.

Simone Collins: In the flippy. Yes. Scarring in the flippy looked closely akin to the impact of aging and diseases that are well established contributors to, to ed.

So it’s scarring your footie. Recent, also, recent studies have linked as rights just to low lower sexual performance. So Berger noted in a 2010 study published in biological psychiatry researchers gave male rats a generic Prozac at the age of rat adolescent. Allowed sufficient time for the drug to clear from their system.

So again, they’re not on it anymore. Then monitored the male’s sexual behavior in adulthood when [00:25:00] they, when in the presence of a receptive female compared with a control group. The previously medicated rats were much slower to mount and took much longer from starting Sex to Ejaculation, and within any one session ejaculated much less often.

Not all similar experiments have produced data quite so definitive, and results with female subjects have been a bit more blurry maybe because female rodent sexuality is trickier to measure, but all in all, the rodent research carries cautionary implications. So, so it, the, the SSRIs are scarring, the footies.

And they’re making the, the, the male rats who took it in adolescence mount more slowly, ejaculate less, and ejaculate later. So ejaculate it’s not good. Okay. It, it just seems like from, from soup to nuts. Almost literally. It’s

Malcolm Collins: from soup to nuts.

Simone Collins: Literally. You’re getting

Malcolm Collins: you, Simone,

Simone Collins: you’re welcome.[00:26:00]

Malcolm Collins: This is how the abuse starts.

Simone Collins: This is bad jokes. I’m a, it’s, I’m a mom. It’s a mom joke.

Malcolm Collins: It was so funny to watch a a fan doing like a reaction to our content ‘cause they were like recording, like what they thought. And, and just watching somebody watch our content and regularly crack up, I’m like, oh, I didn’t realize that People are like.

Actually laughing when we start laughing at things.

Simone Collins: Oh, we have fun, we have fun here. But yeah, so like literally from limerence, from like getting a crush on someone to actually nodding inside them, you’re, you’re, you’re completely. Getting, getting screwed over by SSRIs and yes, leftists use more SSRIs.

I mean, there’s not obviously direct survey data or like prescriptions on, like, I wanna

Malcolm Collins: hear, I wanna hear the data

Simone Collins: here. Come on. Large national surveys consistently show that liberals or Democrats report worse mental health outcomes than conservatives or Republicans. And the gap has widened in recent years.

Malcolm Collins: And you know, it’s not because they’re taking fewer drugs or seeing the psychologists [00:27:00] less.

Simone Collins: Oh no. That has certainly nothing to do with it. I am absolutely confident. There are two great studies you can look to at this and if you want the south, whichever one in the comments is like, where are the links to the articles?

Well, if you paid to subscribe on Substack or Patreon. Thank you so much to our supporters by the way. I linked to the studies that we look at in our episode.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, you do?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Which I put in, I, I, i, I put in the, the Substack and Pat articles.

Malcolm Collins: You nerd.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So anyway, you, but for those listening, I’m gonna throw you a bone.

See Distressed Democrats and relaxed Republicans. Partisanship and mental health during the COVID to 19 pandemic. That’s the, the title of one study. But these

Malcolm Collins: people, they lack the ability

Simone Collins: to Google stuff. Yes, I swear that’s because I always listed. That’s the title. That’s the title. Google. Another title, the Politics of Depression.

Diverging Trends and Internalizing Symptoms among US adolescents by Political Beliefs. So the first study I just named they found that Democrats were parted consistently [00:28:00] higher levels of mental distress than Republicans during the pandemic That this, this partisan distress gap. Predated the pandemic, but was exacerbated by it, especially among white Americans.

And white Democrats experienced the greatest increase in distress resulting in a widening distress gap between Democrats and. White Republicans well both white Democrats and Republicans. And then the second one, the politics of depression. One found that all adolescents show a rising internalizing symptoms, but increases are most pronounced among female liberals.

Big surprise especially those with low parental education, which I hadn’t heard before. Female liberal adolescents had the largest increase in highest absolute scores for depressive affect, particularly those from less privileged backgrounds. So trailer trash girls watch out and male conservative adolescents had the lowest increases and the best scores across internalizing symptom scales.

So basically. Across people who rate their mental health as [00:29:00] poor or who screen positive for depression. A greater proportion identifies liberal than conservative, but also conservatives are less likely to seek mental health treatment or to acknowledge mental health problems, which suggests some of the difference may just reflect reporting bias.

But here’s the thing. Is if you don’t report it and you don’t get treated for it, you’re not going on SSRIs. And if you’re not going on SSRIs, you’re not essentially downstream gonna sterilize yourself through all these negative sexual effects.

Malcolm Collins: But should we be disrupting the cycle that, to get rid of the progressives that, that they’re, they’re, they’re infected with

Simone Collins: para and they’re, they’re just taking

Malcolm Collins: drugs that lower their arousal patterns

Simone Collins: and they just wanna die.

They just, they just wanna end the cycle. Malcolm maybe. Maybe we should just, I, I don’t know, let them, let them put themselves out of their misery. But for those who wanna see more research on that front, see mental health and mental health care utilization across political affiliation in US adults.

[00:30:00] All right. For the source people. But anyway, the important side note doctors, like I was saying at the beginning of this, are largely not telling patients, even adults about sexual side effects. So from the article, I found this was really interesting. The author writes Peggy j Klein Platz, a professor of medicine at the University of Ottawa, told me about the moment that shed light on how family physicians and other primary care providers who write the majority of SSRI prescriptions in the United States and Canada might be thinking about informed consent with patients.

In 2019. Klein Implant gave a presentation. To family physicians at a Canadian medical conference. She asked her audience of some 50 doctors how many of them were aware of the sexual side effects of SSRIs. 80% raised their hands. She estimated, she asked how many informed their patients about these effects when they prescribed.

Just one hand went up. Then she asked why they didn’t. They said it’s a matter of patient compliance to inform about potential sexual side effects. They [00:31:00] worried was to risk the patient not taking the drug, the doctor thought necessary. So basically that’s

Malcolm Collins: fantastic.

Simone Collins: That’s

Malcolm Collins: fantastic. They’re not telling their patients, they’re like, I think the drug is more important than your sex life, and the patient may disagree.

. Consider that in an entire room of psychologists and psychiatrists, only one was willing to warn their patients about this. I think that that shows what we often talk about here, which is to say, you should be viewing these fields as adversarial to you. They do not care about you in mass to find a good one is.

Almost impossible. You should be looking for other solutions to these types of problems if you have them. And when we’re talking about SSRIs, you can see our other videos on this. Keep in mind, this is me who has a degree in neuroscience and a minor in psychology, and who worked in the UT Southwestern, translational neuroscience department.

So I worked as a psychologist in like the [00:32:00] most difficult capacity you can. And I am saying that the place that these industries have gone is, is antagonistic to you. And, um, when you look at these really high rates of anxiety that people have, if you look at these really high rates of depression people have today, and we’ve done other videos on this, a.

You see them more in people that are more privileged, especially in women that are more privileged. Um, and we argue that what is likely causing them is that females are just not meant to be in environments where they have no real threats to them. And so if they are, especially at a young age, they invent threats and their brain basically breaks down.

Simone Collins: Well, and that, yeah, I think that’s just so interesting that like the left is all about hedonistic pleasure and everything, but they’re also like, I don’t care if this sterilizes you or causes, you know, there’s, I think it’s very much part of this, trust the science or like just trust authorities thing of like, I know better.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, my doctor told me to take it so I’m

Simone Collins: doing it well. But [00:33:00] also like I know what’s best for them and I’m just gonna go ahead and override what might be a preference in favor of something else because I know best and so I’m just not, not tell them. But of course this is really exacerbated with teens.

‘cause even I would be like really hesitant. To prescribe a teen boy or girl an SSRI. And even if I told adults about the sexual side effects, like imagine how pissed a mom would be at you as a doctor if you were like, listen, little Cindy Lou, who like. I don’t know if you wanna take this ‘cause it might mess with your sex drive and like, you know, here’s this mother being like, how dare, I can

Malcolm Collins: just imagine one of those scenes where like the parent is getting an increasingly horrified face in the background.

It’s just like boiling with rage.

Simone Collins: Yes, yes. So like of course. And I think that that probably means, I mean maybe sentiment as you’ve pointed out against SSRIs, just plummeting is gonna be enough to kind of. I don’t know, get people to stop taking them en mass. But in general, the [00:34:00] incentives are such that this issue is not gonna get resolved.

The, the discussion around PSSD has been going since like 2004. Nothing has really changed and the incentives just aren’t there. Like doctors prescribing these SSRIs to kids. Have no incentive to bring up the sexual side effects. These teens are then going through decades of taking these and dealing with adverse effects for the rest of their lives.

But kinda, there’s no accountability chain. And mm-hmm. And it’s kind of hard to tell where these problems are coming from, and no one’s getting paid to find out the root of the problem. Like no one profits from it, so no one’s gonna dig deeper. And I do admire and appreciate the New York Times for covering this and, and pointing this out as an issue to a largely progressive audience.

‘cause at least we’re giving them the chance to what

Malcolm Collins: now? What if they start breeding again? What if they start dating again?

Simone Collins: It’s too late, Malcolm. There’s no changing it. Also, we have to consider all the other factors that are sexually dampening or sterilizing populations Also largely. Left [00:35:00] populations, I mean arguably parasites and other diseases as we discussed in our episode.

Episode. But do those make them more sexual? Well, they make them more sexual, but in non reproductive ways. So those who remain sexual are now like just getting toxoplasmosis and just having like fall faia. Also, we’re keep in mind that the people who has toxoplasmosis had lower sperm motility and lower sperm count.

So even when they did actually manage to come inside someone, they were. Not as likely to lead to a, you know, a live birth. Plus of course we have the endocrine distractor issue. We’re constantly talking about host. That’s

Malcolm Collins: who we’re fighting against. The infected, the swar.

Simone Collins: We’re constantly talking about the tide studies, which, which showed that higher levels.

Oh yeah. People

Malcolm Collins: in that other video had forgotten that. We always talk about the tide studies.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Higher levels of endocrine disruptors in first trimester blood work in, in, in pregnant women as measured by these studies, the T-I-D-E-S. Studies, if you wanna look them up again, we provide references to things that you can look up People found that people don’t

Malcolm Collins: know how to do that.

They don’t know how to type. [00:36:00]

Simone Collins: Anyway.

Malcolm Collins: I need to, I need to create an, an itemized list for our daily videos.

Simone Collins: Yeah, well they, that’s, that’s what they’re asking for. Like I said, I provide linked outlines and everything, all my notes and everything when I, when we but on Patreon and Substack. So, sorry guys.

You gotta. Show some support, I guess. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And why aren’t you guys, everyone should be subscribed on Patriot. We do week weekend episodes by weekend episodes even all of it. I, we, we, we, we they’re very different structures in the weekday episodes. They’re typically just like an idea. We’re still trying to think through or like, something

Simone Collins: that I don’t kind of seeing stuff, personal stuff.

It’s, it’s fun. Yeah. I, I really like them and, and our community’s amazing.

Malcolm Collins: Some is like really useful, like the one about how you do large batch meals.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and like our, our travel tips and stuff like that. Anyway, if there’s, there’s more if you want it, subscribe on Patreon. But yeah, so there’s endocrine disruptors that are causing even people from, like in utero, like men to become less male.

Their endo genital distance is shorter when they come out. Meaning like, basically like, again, they’re flippy didn’t make it all the [00:37:00] way up to like the front, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s. Closer in to the, to the, the anus. Also one of my favorite minds, but also they’re expressing less gender dimorphic play in when they’re like eight years old, you know?

So people are becoming less male because of endocrine disruptors. Plus, you know, also just in general endocrine disruptors, which include like, like BPAs, phalates, dioxins, polychlorinated, biphenyls pesticides, parabens, some heavy metals. Like all of these things are endocrin disruptors. They in women cause lower fertility, menstrual irregularities, polycystic ovary, ovary syndrome.

That’s, that’s PCOS. Endo Endometriosis premature menopause. Uterine and ovarian dysfunction. Also increased risk of miscarriage and pregnancy complications. And in men endocrine disruptors can just decrease sperm count qual and quality. They can reduce testosterone. They can cause genital malformations, like I pointed [00:38:00] out, and also increase the risk of test dis testicular and prostate cancers.

So, I mean, it’s like, okay, the SSRIs, they’re just. They’re just the terror, the cherry on top, but they’re a cherry on top that disproportionately affects progressives and especially progressive youth. Yeah. It

Malcolm Collins: almost feels like they’re meant to sort of like, what’s, what’s the word of this? Like, numb them to the world, right.

Like to,

Simone Collins: yeah. To,

Malcolm Collins: Make them less likely to rebel almost. It’s like, it is, it’s literally like one of the pills,

Simone Collins: opiate of the masses.

Malcolm Collins: WW What was that from a show or something?

Simone Collins: Are you serious?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, opiate, the masks. Oh, I didn’t hear what you said. Yeah, no, I’m thinking more like that. Scene from Sliders was the, was the pills

where, you know, everyone is, society is forced to take these pills to, you know,

Simone Collins: Oh

Speaker: . Imagine a world where the government regulates drugs. What did you give her? Tran Ball. Standard Mood Elevator. By getting everyone hooked on them, [00:39:00] everybody’s on something. Everybody but us. You don’t know what it’s going to do to them. Damon, drop in

People.

Simone Collins: .

Oh yeah. Well, and also like, there’s the concept of Soma in brave New World. A Soma in Time saves nine. It, it’s basically like popping a Xanax or something. You’re just like, just chill.

Time

Malcolm Collins: saves nine.

Simone Collins: I I love, I love, I love Brave New World. Brave New World. They’re, they, that dystopia is my utopia.

Everyone takes perfume showers, they’re constantly popping Xanax, and they’re just having a great time. I, I don’t see what the problem is. They’re, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re cloned, I think, or like genetically designed to be good at their jobs and born into like their striated portion of society, but really happy to be in it.

So like you can be an alpha or a beta or a gamma and you just grow up being like, man, I’m so glad I’m not a beta. ‘cause like you’re a gamma or an alpha and you’re just really happy to be what you are. You die before you get old. But also like when you’re young, you go to hospitals to [00:40:00] watch the, the people die.

So you’re like, oh, okay, so this is how it works. And then you get like incinerated in a way that generates energy for the city. So it’s all very efficient. I’m like, this is, this is perfect. What’s wrong with this? Everything’s great. Like, sign me up. Where is this world? Everything Instead of like, cool, their word for cool is pneumatic.

Like, oh, it’s so pneumatic. Everyone drives around in these cool helicopter things. Why do people think? I, I just was so confused when I read this in college and went to my honors class and like trotted up and was like, so excited to talk about this world. I’m like, gosh, this

Malcolm Collins: utopian world,

Simone Collins: how do we make this happen?

Like, let’s do this. Okay, like, let’s go. You do the helicopters, I’ll do this So mild, like let’s re we’ll regroup. Someone, someone build the conditioning chambers. They had this thing also because this was, written by Aldi Huxley, right? When Operant Conditioning was considered to be this whole new exciting thing of like, oh my gosh.

Like you can shake human behavior. So the whole [00:41:00] idea was that these, these casts of society, the alphas and the babies and the Gammas as babies, ‘cause they were all like, they were made in artificial wombs and like sort of cloned and like made in a lab. And then they would be raised in big groups by like designated like nanny minders.

And. The, the way they were conditioned is they’d listen to these sayings over and over and over, like, I’m so glad I’m not a gamma. I’m so glad I’m not a gamma. But then like also they would like, I think, electrify the floors or something. Or like some, I, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but like, they would expose the babies to something that they weren’t supposed to like, like a rose or something.

So they wouldn’t get like overly concerned with like. I don’t know, a feet aesthetics or something. And then it would, they, like, they would electrify the floor and shock all the babies. I’ll build a floor. Shocker. But like, it just, I loved it. I loved it. I, I would never, I would never believe it in shocking babies.

So I would change that about Brave New World. No, no being mean to the babies. Just positive [00:42:00] reinforcement. Never negative reinforcement, but.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we do a lot of negative reinforcement with our kids.

Simone Collins: Malcolm, I’m sorry. But it’s positive reinforcement. How many times have our kids said too, too much? Hit me again, daddy.

Not such

Malcolm Collins: for my kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they literally like begged me. They beg to be hit. I, I, I don’t know what to say. No.

Malcolm Collins: Run off and then do something like poke me and then run away and be like, come. Hit me daddy.

Simone Collins: And the first thing that I go downstairs to like help Malcolm dress the kids, the first thing that happens is I get punched in the spine.

One of our children, he’s like, come at me, bro. Like, they just wanna fight. They love it so much. Yeah. You think it’s negative reinforcement? Nice try. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t bop at all. Because you gave up because

Malcolm Collins: they had too much

Simone Collins: fun with it. I just, I just take things away at this point. That’s my whole thing is like, okay, you, you wanted to use that as a weapon.

You don’t have it anymore. Like I, it’s just that’s the only thing that’s working for me. I don’t know what’s [00:43:00] working for you anyway.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God, no. I can only imagine if. If somebody who was into like little girl daddy dom play, right? If they said the stuff that our kids say to me on a regular basis, people would be like, that’s dark.

You need to stop. Like don’t be like, hit me daddy. Come on.

Simone Collins: Oh, and what the worst thing is, is, especially now that Alexa devices, Amazon Alexa devices have updated their ai and there’s, there’s a broadcasting feature. If you have a lot of them in your house, you can use them basically as an intercom system.

And it used to just be, and you can do this with a, a Google Home device too. Google Home device now still continues to just. Give a recording of your voice when you use the intercom system, but what Alexa does now is instead. Broadcast the message in her voice. So now it’s just, it, it makes it sound extra sexual.

When our children send basic messages,

Malcolm Collins: it’s Alexa. It’s [00:44:00] this woman who’s, she’s like, daddy. Hey daddy.

Simone Collins: There’s this like,

Malcolm Collins: I’m getting thirsty. Yes,

Simone Collins: yes. That’s, that’s Daddy, I’m thirsty. It’s so bad. It sounds so horrible to

Malcolm Collins: say. It’s like an adult woman’s voice

Simone Collins: and it’s just this Yeah, because like they’re ma, they’re trying to make like this maximally.

Like appealing, kind of, kind of cheerful, kind of alluring female voice, except it’s our children saying Daddy comma stuff like, daddy, come down for dinner. Daddy, I’m thirsty. And it’s just, it’s no. No, I guess we’re too diverted.

Malcolm Collins: Daddy, I’m thirsty. Daddy. I’m tired of waiting. Come downstairs.

Simone Collins: You know, it’s so bad.

It’s so, I think maybe we’re too degen for it. Like normal. Normal people would not see, normal people don’t

Malcolm Collins: hear a woman’s voice come on. Because I don’t hear daddy from adult women that much. Like

Simone Collins: I don’t. No, no. Because the only context in which adult women [00:45:00] say that actually, you know what? No, no. So like.

I know that for a fact since the, like fifties and sixties, this has been an issue because it recall and gentlemen prefer blondes. What Marilyn Monroe’s character refers to her partner as is Daddy in a very sexual way. Hmm. Do you not remember? I do. So I mean, but it was still sexual. It’s, yeah, it’s extremely sexual.

So, so it’s not us being DJs, it’s just Alexa being, making everything funny. Especially. When our children decide to use poop jokes to use,

Malcolm Collins: oh, they always, they love going because they think that it’s like a bad thing to do. So they love saying it into Alexa.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so they’ll be like, poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, pee poop.

And it’s just, Alexa, a grown woman in my room going like, poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, poop.

Simone Collins: Daddy poop, poop, poop, daddy poop.

Malcolm Collins: Place [00:46:00] daddy poop. And, and then because we can see on the cameras what they’re doing, they turn to each other and they’re, so, I just said. On the thing. I just did it. Can you believe I did it?

And it was like, and then the other one’s like, anyway, I’ll let you go. We are just going to do so watch the video I sent you for food tonight. Thank you. On how to do the marinade,

Simone Collins: overnight marinade of the

Malcolm Collins: ongoing. It has very explicit instructions on how to handle it, and then how we cook it tomorrow.

In terms of what I’m doing tonight,

Simone Collins: I’m still do, I’m gonna do a little bit tonight. So of the marinade, that’s mostly for overnight. I’m gonna marinate some of it for 30 minutes so that we can make the rest of the noodles for each night. Right. To do that. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: That works for me. Yeah. Did you just throw it in with a lot of

Simone Collins: chi?

Unless there’s something else you wanted tonight? No. Do we have more noodles to cook or I have noodles. Well, that’s the whole thing is I, I pre-ID. Some of those egg noodles to have them sit in a fridge and dry out essentially. ‘cause you really want them dry. You personally wanted them dry? Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I want them to fry

Simone Collins: on the pan, you know?

Yeah. So that’s why I was like, well what happens if I refrigerate them for [00:47:00] one or two days and then we fry them up? Will they be better? So I either have to use them or get rid of them. So no, let’s go for

Malcolm Collins: it.

Simone Collins: Okay. All right then. That’s what we’ll do with all those. And Jo,

Malcolm Collins: we’ve got a lot of Chis left.

We got new chives coming in,

Simone Collins: so extra peppers. Do you want me to also just do some of those new peppers that you got? Mix ‘em in with those. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: absolutely. But you need to cook those for a little bit. Like those actually do need to be cooked a bit.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So

Simone Collins: you’ll, you just slice them. I’m actually do those in like a separate pan, like saute them in a separate pan that doesn’t produce that much smoke.

‘cause you know how we like Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How we overcook the house when we Yeah, when we do anything in the walk. ‘cause we have no. We, we, we cook in a very old kitchen that was built like at the, like 200 years ago. There’s no ventilation, so when I cook on the walk, our whole house is full of smoke.

Oh my God. It smell good though.

Malcolm Collins: I love you. You are amazing, and thank you for being a part of my life.

Simone Collins: Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: Good episode, by the way. I love the topic. [00:48:00]

Simone Collins: It’s, it’s an interesting one. Yeah. Okay, off I go. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: I love you too.

Simone Collins: Okay. Oh, trivia. What was Walt Disney’s favorite food?

Malcolm Collins: What was Walt Disney’s favorite food?

Simone Collins: Hot dogs.

Malcolm Collins: Hot dogs. That’s a good old American food there.

Simone Collins: When he was building Disneyland when it was under construction, he insisted on calling all the attractions weenies. So he was like, we got a weenie here.

We got a weenie there. Like, he just referred to them as weenies. He was a strange man. He, his obsession with trains actually predated the, the creation of Disneyland. He had a, a train, a giant train set. In his, his backyard. I mean, it was, it was big, like it was enough where you could ride in it. He, he actually.

Shut it down after some party at his house where it, it like someone was driving it too fast and it derailed and the girl got hurt. I mean, she was okay, but she was burned by the steam. So, but yeah, he was a train [00:49:00] obsessive, it

Malcolm Collins: was his steam engine too, and she,

Simone Collins: yeah, no, was he liked, he like. Old, loud, clunky trains.

In fact, that train that goes around Disneyland and Anaheim, you know, the original Disneyland? Yeah. When he went on the first test drive of it, he was irate with the team that built it. Do you know why?

Malcolm Collins: It’s too quiet?

Simone Collins: Yes. It was too quiet. And they had to explain to him. They’re like, well, it’s a, it’s a new well-built train.

And he’s like, make it louder. And they had to literally take the engine apart. Put it together, shoddily. So it’s noisy,

Malcolm Collins: but he’s right. That’s the real experience.

Simone Collins: That’s, no, it’s true. Like he really understood the, the word that came to mind was mouth feel. He really understood like the, the mouth

Malcolm Collins: feel of

Simone Collins: Disney, the patina that you need to have that experience of, of this authentic American.

Yeah, like a train that wasn’t loud and clinky and noisy [00:50:00] wouldn’t feel authentic in the same way. So I just love that weenies. That is hilarious.

Speaker 4: Okay. What are you guys working on? I, my what is this that you’re drawing? Um, I’m drawing my Christmas tree while its among us, present among us. Oh, so you want among us presents? Yeah. I want Among US Plus for Christmas. What about you, Andy? You got anything you’re up to? Yep. Torson Torson. He world, Octavia.

Earlier this morning you said the mice are retreating. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, the mice are retreated. Why are, how do you know they’re retreating? Because the guy from the mouse trap, the men don dying from the mouse trap back. That makes sense. So I got a question for you.[00:51:00]

Um, can you tell people to like and subscribe? What will they get if they like and subscribe? Um, we are gonna make, um, if the white guy subscribe, then we are gonna actually make another like cube with a new person. Always.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So you’re gonna come to their house in a cube? No. Like there’s gonna be another like wine box, Emma, and I’m gonna be in the video. We’re gonna be in the video because you gave us comments about. We you really, really, really making me in the video. So if I, if you put us, if we put you in the video, then we’ll get, then you’ll get a double subscribers and our like under the button if we get it on one video.

Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense, Octavian. Yeah. [00:52:00] Yeah. So if the way can subscribe, you get that video. Well, the ticket, oh, you want me the ticket? And the ticket is if you actually did what? Why can’t describe and tell me in the kind of actually.

Explore the fascinating and unsettling transformation of Johannesburg, South Africa—a city at the crossroads of decline and adaptation. In this episode, Simone Collins and Malcolm discuss how Johannesburg is crumbling in unexpected ways, with public infrastructure failing and private solutions rising to fill the gaps. From “crime hotspot” road signs to walled garden communities with private security and independent utilities, the city offers a glimpse into a possible future for urban centers worldwide.

We dive into personal experiences touring Johannesburg’s townships, the realities of daily life amid power and water outages, and the stark contrast between struggling neighborhoods and luxurious, self-sufficient estates. The conversation also draws parallels to other cities facing similar challenges, like Detroit, New York, and Lima, and examines how demographic shifts, government failures, and private enterprise are reshaping the urban landscape.

Discover why insurance companies are fixing potholes, why citizens are directing traffic, and how the wealthy are building their own modern-day fortresses. We also discuss the broader implications for anyone considering where to live, how to prepare for infrastructure decline, and what the rise of “walled gardens” means for society.

Whether you’re interested in urban planning, social trends, or the future of cities, this episode offers thought-provoking insights and real-world stories you won’t want to miss.

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more deep dives into the world’s most pressing issues!

BTW, this was another Simone-outlined episode, so here’s the outline which includes links as more jumping off points. You’ll find the transcript at the end. :)

Based Camp - Johannesburg: Coming to a City Near You!

The Gist

* The G20 summit is being held in Johannesburg this month, which is putting it back in the news as the city scrambles to not humiliate itself when big deal people come to visit

* The WSJ did a hilarious piece on it—we’ll share the highlights

* Ironic side note: This year’s summit in South Africa is themed “Solidarity, Equality, Sustainability” and is focused on inclusive economic growth, food security, and technology-driven sustainable development.

* This is funny given both the nature of Johannesburg and the trends wer’e about to discuss

* This is a great time for us to remind people that Johannesburg represents the future for SO MANY cities

* So in this episode, we’ll

* Dive into a little more detail on the state of Johannesburg, which has some fascinating sci-fi dystopian vibes

* Explain why and how the Johannesburg model is coming to a city near you

Johannesburg—What’s Going On?

The Degradation

Some Visual Examples

* The sorry state of things https://x.com/AliceVLAuthor/status/1984968880851419589

* That famous Ponte Tower: https://youtube.com/shorts/65b3jQ_TTt4?si=sWBITkT3gaBp-8Cm

* Our Soweto township experience in 2018

* The school we visited; the school lunch

* The houses

* The landscape

* The…. ads

The WSJ Piece

Title: Welcome to Johannesburg. This Is What It Looks Like When a City Gives Up.

Subtitle: Tourists are dumbfounded by the many signs of apathy in the South African city; the ‘Jozi Jacuzzi’ pothole

The beginning of the article says it all:

JOHANNESBURG—What does it look like when a city stops trying? Visit Johannesburg, where instead of providing basic public services, the government just warns residents not to expect them.

Signs tell you what crime you’re most likely to fall victim to at highway exits and intersections; beware “Hi-Jacking Hot Spot” or “Smash and Grab Hot Spot.” Homeless people routinely direct traffic when the stoplights don’t work. Minibus taxis that ferry workers around the city often drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid rush hour traffic.

Johannesburg, South Africa’s biggest metropolis, markets itself as a “world class African city.” It’s home to some of the continent’s biggest companies and its largest stock exchange. But private firms have gradually taken over public services, from security to healthcare to mail delivery. Insurance companies fix potholes and sponsor fire brigades to reduce claims.

It’s all become a bit embarrassing for the South African government, which is set to host the G20 Summit meeting of heads of state here in November. In March, South African President Cyril Ramaphosa chided Johannesburg officials for what he called “not a pleasing environment” and told them to address a slew of issues ahead of the meeting.

“City of Joburg is as ready as it will ever be for G20 Summit,” said a spokeswoman for Johannesburg Mayor Dada Morero.

Morero, the city’s ninth mayor in 10 years, in May launched a task force dubbed the “Bomb Squad” to address service-delivery issues in various neighborhoods.

Some of the team’s achievements, according to Morero’s spokeswoman: The resolution of a 15-day water outage, the restoration of power to 1,000 households within one day of a substation failure, and the rectification of a seven-yearlong water blockage in 24 hours.

Decades of decline have pockmarked the city, including some now-famous failings.

In August, a popular investigative journalism show ran a segment on the “Jozi Jacuzzi” pothole, in the Randburg area of Johannesburg. The six-foot deep pothole had been filling with water for years, even causing low water pressure in nearby houses.

Some other highlights:

* Another nearby pothole, dubbed Kenny’s Canyon after a local politician, was dug by Johannesburg Water as it searched for a leak. Drainage pipes, fiber cables and piles of sand were left blocking a lane of traffic for more than a year, while the 26-foot deep hole filled with water. In July, South Africa’s biggest opposition party held a birthday party with cake for its one-year anniversary.

* In February, a borehole that was being drilled on private property in the Killarney suburb went straight into a tunnel used by the Gautrain, a 50-mile commuter rail system that operates partly above ground and partly underground. The tunnel flooded with water and soil, interrupting service for more than a week.

* “Think of it as a scenic surface route, a chance to see Johannesburg for a change!” Gautrain said in a statement after the mishap. “You may discover a new favorite coffee shop. Or a massive pothole. It’s Johannesburg, after all.”

* Sometimes, citizens clap back. In 2013, the provincial government that encompasses Johannesburg implemented an electronic toll system on major highways to recoup costs associated with expanding roads for the 2010 soccer World Cup. Since then, most of the city’s residents refused to pay, ignoring invoices and threats of legal action. Alasdair Condie, 66, works in construction and says he has never paid an e-toll. He estimates he owes around $3,000, but stopped getting bills years ago “because the postal system doesn’t work.” “If they prosecuted me, they would have to prosecute tens of thousands of others and the courts couldn’t handle it,” he said.

The Sorry State of Policing

Conversations with Tyler Episode

https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/jonny-steinberg/

Highlights:

* Tyler Cowen interviewed author Jonny Steinberg, who spent about 350 hours riding around in South African police vans from 2004-2007

* Basically, there was only policing with consent—police would only go when they were called (basically in domestic violence cases)

* It is normalized to pay police to investigate crimes when they actually want help.

On policing in South Africa

* COWEN: Your work on the police in South Africa — if there are two policemen in a township in South Africa, how large is the crowd they can successfully confront and still manage to handle?

* STEINBERG: It depends very much on the circumstances: where they are, the time of day. But if it’s a Saturday night, and there’re 10 or 20 people, and they’re young, those two cops don’t want to be there. They’ll make sure that they’re not.

* COWEN: So they just don’t even show up and take the call.

* STEINBERG: Yeah. When I was riding around with them, it was really amusing. They had an equivalent of a CompStat system, which told them where the hot spots were, which was where they had to police, and they’d make absolutely sure to do the opposite and not be in hot spots, because if there were only two of them, they were not sure that they could control people.

The Sequestered Nice Bits

IMPORTANT: Johannesburg is not remarkable because it has rough parts and degradation, it’s remarkable because communities have successfully roped themselves off

* Johannesburg’s rough parts didn’t necessarily feel worse than less nice neighborhoods in Mexico or Peru

* South Africa’s purchasing power parity GDP per capita is $13,700-16,000

* Peru’s is ~$16,000

* HOWEVER, even in the wealthiest parts of Peru, we’d lose power and water

* Even last time I visited in 2024, there was a power outage and even the Marriott hotel where I stayed in the NICEST part of the NICEST district lost power

Examples of these Walled Gardens

Johannesburg is one of those rare place where amidst crumbling infrastructure, there are high-security paradises with their own backup power and borehole water.

Dainfern Golf Estate

* Recommended by Joburg redditors

* Brief promo vid:

*

* https://dainfern.co.za/lifestyle

Country Gardens Estate

https://www.countrygardens.estate/

* https://www.countrygardens.estate/projects-7

* Country Gardens Estate: This new development features dedicated borehole water and a solar farm to ensure continuous power and water supply. It has 24/7 security, fully gated access, and eco-conscious living with timber homes and a natural pool. The estate includes communal areas and a Montessori preschool, appealing for families needing both safety and uninterrupted utilities.

The Parks (a little more downmarket)

* Drone View:

*

A View into the Walled Gardens via Reddit

* Where the wealthy post (about their gardens, swinging…)

* Though even they are not exempt from Johannesburg’s shortcomings:

* NO WATER: Are there gyms or hotels in Jhb that allow you to shower only Haven’t had water for over a week... Trying to see if there are any gyms or hotels that allow you to use their shower facilities

* ASKING FOR ADVICE ON MOVING BACK (FROM LIVING IN THE UK)

* It’s great except for the fact that it’s falling apart: “Only problem with SA - is the theft of taxes and neglect when it comes to maintaining things, as well the large amount of poor folks left out - they eventually end up doing crime as there is nothing for them to advance in this country. So its a statistic that you will likely end up being a victim of crime here and as well suffer with electricity or water issues. Otherwise its a GREAT COUNTRY.”

* Move somewhere with borehole water and backup power: “It’s not too bad. Especially if you have the funds to stay in a place with borehole water and backup power. Come live here. Meet people here. Spend money on small businesses here. Pay the uber drivers here. Enjoy the restaurants and touristy stuff you havent yet done here until your heart is content. Spend the pounds. Our economy benefits off of the tourism. Maybe it suits you too.”

* Move to a gated community: “Depending on where you settle in Joburg it’s really not that bad. I’m able to live an ordinary life. Do you wear plenty of diamonds? As a fully remote person you might be able to set yourself up in Dainfern Golf Estate. The Parks are also well loved and plenty of people lead comfortable ordinary lives and go for walks with their families.”

* Go back if you’re rich: “SA is great for the wealthy or those who earn foreign currency, your quality of life would be better than the equivalent over seas for the same price For the middle class /youth they’re currently effed, having kids here is dooming them to dark futures, The crime would always be a risk though, however you can minimise the risk with money (private security, gated estates)”

* True, u only get to experience the perks of living in S.A if you’re wealthy or earning in foreign currency.

* Goes to show people will return to crumbling areas merely out of nostalgia: My hubby and I recently tried living in the Netherlands for a few years. We left SA because of the government, infrastructure etc. going downhill and the difficulty to get a job. We returned primarily because we missed family. Underneath that though I missed SA and specifically jozies… the awesome people making it by each day, the great weather (including highveld thunderstorms) and vibes. The ability to talk to strangers and share a laugh and not get looked at weirdly. Making what feels like firm friends in the space of minutes even though you know you will never see them again. I am glad we came back. NL was great, everything worked, everyone was friendly but between feeling like outsiders, the reasonably ok but not great medical and the continuous rain and depression that came with it, it was not home. Not to mention the continual worrying news about the rise of right wing parties in the area, crazy politicians etc. I realised though that the green is not greener anywhere in the world … it’s just different grass and you have to decide what will make you happy. So if jozies is your place then move. Great you earn pounds. Check out tax implications. Good luck … you would always be welcome in jozies.

* Theft: johannesburg stolen phones Stay vigilant, redditors in Johannesburg warn about phone theft in public places. https://www.reddit.com/answers/72f3b629-377d-4fbc-aff2-d32bef652814/?q=johannesburg+stolen+phones&source=SERP&upstreamCID=e973eac1-4043-4f09-9e2c-a548cdcf8b3a&upstreamIID=6629f439-1069-4717-b022-1a2f5840004e&upstreamQ=johannesburg+stolen+phones&upstreamQID=6fb53e3e-a5ff-44e2-9172-f5e18eeb5617

Why We’re Next

* Our rougher parts are going to look more like the degraded parts of Detroit

* But long story short, we have a twofold problem

* Even without demographic collapse, American towns are screwed

* With demographic collapse, this issue is compounded (and all towns and cities are at risk, regardless of whether their economics were sound with stable populations)

The Liability of American Cities, as revealed by Strong Towns

Since the end of World War II, our cities and towns have experienced local economic growth using three primary mechanisms:

* Transfer payments between governments, where the federal or state government makes a direct investment in growth at the local level, such as funding a water or sewer system expansion.

* Transportation spending, where transportation infrastructure is used to improve access to a site that can then be developed.

* Public and private-sector debt, where cities, developers, companies, and individuals take on debt as part of the development process, whether during construction or through the assumption of a mortgage.

In each of these, the local unit of government benefits immediately from all the permit fees, utility charges, and increased tax collection. This is real money that provides revenue for the current budget. Cities also assume the long-term liability for servicing and maintaining all the new infrastructure, a promise that won’t come fully due for decades. This exchange—a near-term cash advantage for a long-term financial obligation—is one element of a Ponzi scheme.

“Over a life cycle, a city frequently receives just a dime or two of revenue for each dollar of liability, a ridiculously low level of financial productivity.

American cities have a ticking time bomb of unfunded liability for infrastructure maintenance. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) estimates deferred maintenance at multiple trillions of dollars, but that’s just for major infrastructure, not the local streets, curbs, walks, and pipes that directly serve our homes. Every mature city has a backlog of deferred maintenance, a growing list of promises with no discernible path to make good on them.

What Johannesburg Shows We Should Expect

* Cities where

* Police may come when called, but don’t proactively police

* Citizens pay police extra to actually do their jobs

* Insurance companies may fix some infrastructure just to reduce costs

* Citizens will step in to help more than we might expect

* E.g. the WSJ article mentions how homeless people are directing traffic in Johannesburg where traffic lights are down

* Walled communities with

* Private security

* Independent or backup water and electricity

What Families Should Consider Now + What’s Already Happening

Wealthy early adopters are already:

* Funding private developments (e.g. our to-be-unnamed friend with two very wealthy benefactors who want to build a modern Chattaqua)

* Building bunkers in Hawaii and New Zealand (Zuckerberg and Thiel)

* Zuckerberg’s Hawaiian compound—called Ko’olau Ranch—features a 5,000-square-foot underground shelter connected to two mansions by tunnels, with a blast-proof concrete-and-metal door, escape hatch, living areas, and its own supplies.

* Thiel’s New Zealand compound—designed by Kengo Kuma, known for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics stadium—includes a lodge built into the hillside with north-facing views over Lake Wanaka

* Funding city states

* Prospera

* Praxis

To consider:

* Where should your family be set up, long-term?

* How energy and water independent can you get?

* How will you manage security?

Episode Transcript

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I’m so excited to be with you today because we are gonna be talking about Johannesburg coming to a city near you. Why? Because it is crumbling, but crumbling in very interesting ways in which not only is it falling apart, but it has these protected walled gardens where things are actually really nice.

And we need to expect this to happen a lot more in the future. But let’s give some context. The G 20 summit is being held in Johannesburg this month, which is putting it back in the news as the city scrambles to not humiliate itself when big deal people come to visit. So that’s why like a lot of people are now talking about how crappy it is.

When I mean it, it always has had problems. But the Wall Street Journal recently did this hilarious piece on it, and we’ll share the highlights. There’s some great pictures from it. And there’s also this ironic side note, which I think is really wonderful that the, the, the, the summit, the, the G 20 summit that’s happening this month.

Yeah. The theme is. Solidarity equality, sustainability and it’s focused on inclusive economic growth, food security, and technology driven sustainable [00:01:00] development. And this is in Johannesburg, in the thing. And, and to give an idea, can you talk about some of the, like the signs for crime spots and stuff like that?

Yeah. We’re gonna get into that. It, because Yeah, they’re, they’re, no, I mean, you lead, you lead with interesting novel things.. I will show you. Okay. Just to give you a teaser, here is a sign that you can now find in, in Johannesburg.

It for those who are just listening, it’s, it’s at a road sign. It’s just a big red dot, and it says crime hotspot. So that. They’re not trying to like stop crime. So what they’ve done is, is, and I sent you an article on this, the policing system in Johannesburg has gone to just sort of a labeling parts of the city where you are likely to have certain types of crime committed and then tell you what crime is likely to be committed to you.

Like carjacking is frequent here, and then the cops [00:02:00] are, if. Intentionally avoiding these areas. Yeah. They’re just like, oh, there’s gonna be crime here. Guess we better stay away from it. Don’t wanna get hurt. You know, like, this is the police. So this is just kind of how things have, have gotten. I wanna, I want us to stand and like jack up cars in these areas and just point to the sign.

Be like, look, it’s common here. Okay. No, no. Really though. I, I feel like, yeah, at this point you kind of have impunity. If, if you’re carjacking in the area, you’re like, listen, you were warned, sir. What did you expect? It’s like, like it’s like a, like deer crossing or something? Yeah. Like, well, okay, so this is the crosswalk.

You cross in the crosswalk. This is the carjacking zone. You, you, you carjack. This is a carjacking zone. This really is, is a, is a great time to. To remind people that Johannesburg in, like I said, represents the future. So what we’re gonna do is dive into some more detail on the state of Johannesburg, which has some fascinating sci-fi dystopian vibes.

We’re also going to talk about how we’re seeing some of this model go to places in [00:03:00] outside Johannesburg. So first, the degradation. So, so you get to live in a sci-fi dystopia if you live in Johannesburg. Now. That’s, that’s really cool. Yeah. I mean, who doesn’t want to live in a sci-fi dystopia? There’s, there’s a, if you just look on, on x, like sort of top posts about Johannesburg, here’s an example of just sort of like a video of the city.

Just, it, it, it’s, it’s crappy. It looks like a third world country. It, it doesn’t look very good. There’s the famous Pont Tower. You’ve, you’ve heard of this one. It’s that big circular tower that for a long time was just taken over by aids. Yeah. And then what, what, what happened to it? So actually it is, it has been reclaimed.

There’s this this great YouTube short though I’m gonna send to you where there’s this guy like very enthusiastically standing in the center of the tower being like, this is where the dead bodies were dumped.

Speaker: And this is where all the dead bodies were and all the trash. It piled up 13 stories high.

Simone Collins: Because people literally would throw their trash into the center of this tower. But yeah, it, it has actually since been reclaimed and it now has multiple shops and [00:04:00] people actually live in there. But it still looks kind of. Kind of dystopian and ruined. And then of course, you and I actually went to Johannesburg in 2018. We toured the Soweto Township, which is one of the not nice areas.

Okay. I’m just gonna send you some of the photos that we took there. Okay. Sort of showing the, the state. These are, these are very much shanties we visited. Oh, but she’s mentioning is, is that we, Simone and I did a tour of one of the townships, like one of the shanty towns in Johannesburg. Yeah. I, I actually included one photo of me when we were in the, the school we visited just for proof that we were actually there.

Me, like showing the kids the photos. But like, you know, there’s, you can see there’s a photo of like the school lunches that the kids were served there. Like, this is not a nice. Place to go to. I mean, like the kids actually were amazing. The teachers were fantastic. Like the actual community that we interacted with when we went there.

The all the people are great, but the infrastructure is terrible. There are constant power outages. There are constant water [00:05:00] outages. The, I don’t know to what extent people are experiencing food insecurity, but the school lunches that I, I I’ve literally picture, theyre just a white mush. It’s, it’s, it, yeah, it’s white mush of some sort.

I’m not exactly sure what it is, but it’s very much like Oliver Twist. I want some more porridge, kind of. Yeah. That’s, that’s the mood we’re going for here. I also shared some signs, some signs that were on just like a random wall that we walked by that for the men, there’s, there’s penis enlargement. And then for the women, there’s a abortion.

I think it says same day, pain-free with, with a number to call. Just so you know, everyone gets, I love, I love it for men and wi Oh my God. Imagine going for like an abortion that you just saw as like a sign on a wall in Johannesburg. Yeah. I, I feel like this is the, this is the, the Johannesburg version of HIMSS and hers vitamins.

I’m sure you’ve seen like. Extensive ad campaigns for himss. I love that you took a picture of this. Just Yeah, and they’re all over the wall too, right? Like Yeah, it’s, it’s just like, get, get what you need, you know, gender specific. And then the, what really [00:06:00] prompted me to, to dive back into this was just this fantastic.

Wall Street Journal piece called welcome to Johannesburg. This is what it looks like when a city gives up subtitle. Tourists are dumbfounded by the many signs of apathy in South African City, the Josie Jacuzzi pothole.

Speaker 2: when it comes to service delivery, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make a drink. Guys, where’s the horse? Liters and liters. Water. They are gushing out, and it’s been like this for two years. I mean a Porsche, Wendy, in their last weekend. So what it tells you is that somebody is not doing their job.

Join us on Sunday as we dive into the depths of the Jo Jacuzzi.

Simone Collins: I just, I wanna read the beginning of the article to you because it, it’s just so good and it says it all, but I’m also gonna send you some highlight photos of, by the, for example, you’re wondering what the TFR of South Africa is these days.

Uhhuh, it’s 2.2. I mean, that’s pretty good. They’re almost below replacement right now. Yeah, I mean, well, but it’s, it’s poverty. I mean, those abortion doctors must be good, you know, I mean, [00:07:00] they’re handling it. And I wouldn’t expect, I wouldn’t expect to still be fertile after one of those roadside penis enlargement surgeries.

I know seriously that that’s probably not helping with the fertility. Those are both. Basically, probably two forms of, of curtailing the population. So the Wall Street Journal article signs tell you what crime you’re like most likely to fall victim to at highway exits and intersections. Beware of hijacking, hotspot, or smash and grab hotspot.

Homeless people. Routinely direct traffic when the stoplights don’t work. Mini bus taxis that ferry workers around the city often drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid rush hour traffic. I mean, that’s sometimes I wish taxis would do that. Johannesburg, south Africa’s biggest Metropolis Markets itself as a world class African city.

It’s home to some of the nce. Biggest companies and it’s largest stock exchange. But private firms have gradually taken over public services from security to healthcare, to mail delivery in current insurance companies, fix potholes and [00:08:00] sponsor fi, fire brigades to reduce claims. Now this is really important.

That last sentence. Mm-hmm. This is what we need to expect in the future, and this is why Johannesburg is different. Okay. One thing I wanna highlight is that while I, I just shared a bunch of photos of like. Soweto town township that we saw, you know, we’ve been in, in other places that are not very wealthy and they don’t feel that different, like mm-hmm.

One of the, the, the more popular complaints about people in Johannesburg is that people will like, just, you’ll be sitting at a restaurant or a, or on a street and someone will just grab your phone and steal it from you. That happened to me in Peru. Yeah. But the the the thing you didn’t really dwell on the the so Lato jacuzzi no, no.

We’re, we’re gonna get to that in the article. But my, the point I wanna add though, is what makes, so we’ve seen basically the, the bad neighborhoods in Johannesburg didn’t feel too different. To me from bad neighborhoods in the United States and bad neighborhoods in Peru and other countries we’ve been to.

What is different about Johannesburg, and this is [00:09:00] very important, is that they have experienced this for so long and so systemically that private industry and private individuals are starting to step in where the government is failing because now it’s so expected the government is so corrupt. People are like, well, I’m just not gonna depend on it anymore.

So literally that insurance companies are fixing potholes because they’re just not getting fixed. They’re sponsoring fire brigades to reduce claims to, to save money, and that homeless people are directing traffic. I think this is what we’re ultimately gonna see more of in the rest of the world. And people need to be thinking about this when they decide where they wanna live, what companies they wanna deal with and, and when they can go somewhere where they can expect private individuals and private industry to step in.

Or governments will fail because where you don’t wanna be is where. You, you move somewhere where government fails and nobody steps in, like you’re just literally written off entirely [00:10:00] because that is going to happen in many places as well. So I’ll go back to the Wall Street Journal article. It’s all become a bit embarrassing for the South African government, which is a about to set host to the G 20 summit meeting of heads of State November in March.

South African President Cyro Osa Chi to Johannesburg officials for what he claimed is not a pleasing environment. And told them to address the slew of issues ahead of the meeting. City of Joburg is as ready as it ever will be for the G 20 summit. Said a spokeswoman for Johannesburg Mayor. Data. Marrero Marrero, the city’s ninth mayor in 10 years in May, launched a task force dubbed the bomb squad to address service delivery issues in various neighborhoods.

Some of the team’s achievements according to Marrero spokeswoman, the resolution of a 15 day water outage. 15 days without water. There were rotted water outages all the time in, in Lima, Peru too, where we lived. Yeah. But 15 days is next level. The restoration of power to 1000 households within one [00:11:00] day of a substation failure.

1000, 1000 households, not even a storm. And the Octavian, we will find the power cord when we’re done recording. Okay. Can you say hi to the fans? Hi. What do you know about Africa? Octavian, I know about Africa that they have like to depress, like have a, like a real vehicle and a, and a decoy. That’s nothing to do with Africa.

Nothing to do with Africa at all, I dunno. Oh, okay. Octavian, go, go back downstairs and I will come and get you if you can leave me alone for a little bit.

And the rectification of a seven year long water backlog blockage for 24 hours or in 24 hours, so a seven year long water blockage. These are just, they’re, they’re issues that have clearly been left behind by the government. Just nobody cares. Yeah, yeah. When you, when you get this. Well, because they don’t see, they see their job as collecting taxes and spinning them on themselves and their cronies not [00:12:00] actually doing the job of governing.

Yeah. And then there’s the Josie Jacuzzi. So in August, a popular investigative journalism show ran a segment on the Josie Jacuzzi pothole in the Randberg area of Johannesburg. The six foot deep pothole had been filling with water for years, even causing low water pressure in nearby houses. There’s this great new segment that I shared with you.

I’ll, I’ll send you a link again if you wanna include it in the video. Yeah. Where like, literally the, the, the journalist gets in like scuba gear and like an inner tube and just like, jumps in. It’s just like, ha ha ha. It’s, it’s so bad. There’s also, but it’s going to people’s houses. Yeah. And they’re, they’re, they’re nicknaming, the potholes.

There’s another pothole that’s called Kennedy’s can, or sorry, Kenny’s Canyon after a local politician. And it was, it was, it was dug by Johannesburg Water. Is it searched for a leak? Drainage pipes, fire cables, and piles of sand were left blocking a lane of traffic for more than a year, while the 26 foot deep hole filled with water in July.

South Africa’s biggest opposition party held a birthday party with cake [00:13:00] for its one year anniversary. In February, a borehole that was being drilled on private property in the Kili Murray suburb went straight into a tunnel used for the gal train a 50 mile commuter rail. System that operates partly above ground and partly underground.

The tunnel flooded with water and soil interrupting service for more than a week. Quote. Think of it as a scenic surface route. A chance to see Johannesburg for a change. Gal train said in a statement after the mishap quote, you may discover a new favorite coffee shop or a massive pothole. It’s Johannesburg.

After all this is, oh my gosh, amazing. It note that the, the reason why that particular train was shut down was because. Someone was digging a borehole in a suburban neighborhood. The reason why they were doing that is because the water gets shut off for 15 days at a time. And borehole water is, is actually trying to reach well, water.

Yeah, exactly. Is is that they were just trying to get basically water autonomy because they couldn’t depend on the city and they just broke [00:14:00] more of the city. In doing that, what does it make you feel? Better? That we have well water at our house. Yeah. And actually that’s one of the things I wanna point to.

Like where are you getting your water? Do you have backup power? Like all these sorts of things are things that families need to be increasingly thinking about as we move toward demographic co collapse. And as in general cities and especially Americans. Suburban cities reach a point where they increasingly experience cascading bankruptcy.

And we’re gonna talk about that next. You know, and this is all downstream of just like extreme wokes. Yes and no. There, it’s, it’s a combination of things. No. So the, the, the type of bureaucracy and corruption we explicitly see in South Africa. Hmm. Oh, that, yes. That’s all apartheid based. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and I think that it is in structure very similar to the way that many progressives in the United States, like, look at Mond, right? Like New York is a hellscape right now, right? Like, all the businesses are moving out. It’s, it’s. Empty everywhere you go. Yeah. The [00:15:00] crime is constant. Well, same with California.

If they institute that billionaire tax, that one time, like 5% of your total wealth, unearned included tax or whatever to like just pay off California’s debt like that, they’re just gonna leave. Yeah. But the point being is that with the AMI situation. New York knows how bad it is already, and yet they’re still voting on a guy like this who will only make every one of their preexisting problems worse.

Well, I, I partially think when it comes to mom Donny, that he is the woke or progressive version of Trump where it’s, it’s clear from pulling in coverage in interviews as well, that a lot of the people who are voting for him don’t actually think that he’s going to make things better. In fact, I think they believe he’s going to make things worse, but they also just want to like.

Take a a, a hammer to New York and just bust it up. ‘cause they’re just so angry about everything. It, it’s very much the same way that people wanted to vote Trump and to drain the swamp and just break Washington DC ‘cause they just freaking hated [00:16:00] it. So I think that’s part of what’s going on.

There’s one more thing though that I wanted to point out that’s just so great and just a wonderful absurdist detail about Johannesburg and how bad it is and also kind of what we should be expecting in other cities in the future. Sometimes citizens. This I’m reading from the Wall Street Journal article again, sometimes Citizens Clap Back in 2013, the provincial government that encompasses Johannesburg implemented an electronic toll system on major highways to recoup costs recoup costs on cities associated with expanding roads in the, for the 2010.

Soccer World Cup. Since then, most of the city’s residents refused to pay ignoring invoices and threats of legal action. Sair Condi 66 works in construction and says he has never paid an eol. He estimates he owes around $3,000, but stopped getting bills years ago because the postal system doesn’t work.

Wait, so what is this e toll for? It’s a bill for, it’s it’s toll roads. There are toll [00:17:00] roads in Johannesburg, and the citizens have just decided to not pay them, and they don’t even receive the bill because the postal system doesn’t work. Quote, if they prosecuted me, they would have to prosecute the tens of thousands of others in courts and they couldn’t handle it.

Like the courts literally couldn’t help them prosecute all of the unpaid. Total bill holders because the courts don’t work, so the roads don’t work. They tried to fix them by charging people tolls. The people don’t pay the tolls and partially the bills aren’t even getting to them ‘cause the mail doesn’t work.

And even if they tried to take the people to court because they’re not paying the toll road bills to fix the roads that aren’t working, that they, they couldn’t ‘cause the courts didn’t work. So, yes. And I think when people think that this is, again, something that can’t happen by you, it absolutely can. We are seeing our cities degrade and as they degrade, the voters are not co course correcting.

They are going more [00:18:00] woke. Yeah. That’s what why I brought up madami, right? Like, yeah. Yeah, the, the, well, and I mean, you even see this actually, I mean, like, this is something that gets covered a lot around the world and especially increasingly speaking of Ma Doni in New York, in New York with criminals, for example, not being prosecuted properly for things like shoplifting.

And this is something that you, you highlighted a little bit earlier, the issue with police in South Africa. You sent me a conversations with Tyler podcast episode with Tyler Cowan. In which he interviews the author Johnny Steinberg, who spent around 350 hours riding around with South African Police between 2000 four and 2007.

So quite a long time ago. And things are much worse now. Basically he, he shares in this interview that there was only policing with consent. Police would only go, were basically when they were called. So most of the things that they actually were looking at while on their shifts or whatever. Domestic violence cases where people ask them to come though, even in these cases, it’s very [00:19:00] normalized to pay police to investigate crimes when you actually want help.

So you basically have to bribe police to investigate a crime. Yeah. So the. I, you can either include a clip, but basically Cowan was like your work in the police in South Africa. If there were two policemen in a township in South Africa, how large is the crowd they can successfully confront and still manage to handle Steinberg?

It depends very much on the circumstances where they are and the time of day, but if it’s a Saturday night. And if they’re 10 to 20 people and they’re young, those two cops don’t wanna be there. They’ll make sure they’re not Cowan, so they just don’t even show up and take the call. Steinberg. Yeah, when I was riding around with them.

It was really amusing. They have an equivalent of the CompStat system, which told them where the hotspots were, which was where they had to police, and they’d make absolutely sure to do the opposite and not be in the hotspots, because if there were only two of them, they were not sure that they could control [00:20:00] people.

So this is, this is the state again, of Johannesburg. Well, you know, bad, this is gonna be a part of Europe where cops don’t even have guns. Yeah. Where they just have their fabulous batons, like in the uk. Yeah. I would point out though, one thing they discussed briefly in this conversations with Tyler interview is, okay, well are, are, are people in Johannesburg afraid of the police?

Right? Like, you have to bribe the police to get them to do something, to get them to help you. Where you also bribe police a lot very classically is in Mexico, but also in Mexico, the police are like actively scary. Like you’re really worried that the police are gonna like. Hurt you. Yeah. And, and basically the, the guy being interviewed, Steinberg was like, ah, like they’ll rough you up and stuff, but people aren’t scared of the police like they are in Mexico.

And I just wanna point out that like Johannesburg isn’t, isn’t worse than rough parts of Mexico, than rough parts of Peru and rough parts of any country with, with somewhat similar per capita GDP and Peru. And, and Johannesburg [00:21:00] basically have, well, I would note that it is words in a way that you’re not.

Really discussing here, which is to say and I always note that this is something you have to be careful about, Uhhuh, is to assume that a developed country that is collapsing is going to be at an equivalent level of quality of life to a country with an equal GDP that is developing. And that just isn’t the case.

That’s, yeah. Yeah. And that’s true. But yeah, Johannesburg, you go and then you go again in 10 years and it’s worse. Peru, every time we went and we loved this, there’d be some new construction. There’d be something new that was built, something that was improved, something that was fixed. A new bridge, a new road.

You’re right. And it’s, it’s very, but that’s the, the bigger issue is the way that you utilities collapsed when we were in Peru. I don’t think. We had a single power outage the entire time we were there. Yes we did. In fact, just the last time that I was in Peru, in the nicest neighborhood, there was a power outage and I was in the nicest hotel of the nicest neighborhood.

We had water outages and we had power outages. And you’re just conveniently For kidding. No, I, I, if we had them, it couldn’t have been more than once a month. Yeah, it, [00:22:00] it wasn’t frequent. It wasn’t that frequent. And the water outages you, you would typically receive a warning about them. Yeah. Well, so how long, so sorry, what are you considering?

Was it like one power outage every, like two? It would, it would often be like for 12 hours in a day. And, and in, in Johannesburg it’s like 15 days. So obviously it’s way. Yeah. Yeah. But it, they were rare enough that it never inconvenienced me in a meaningful way. It inconvenienced me because I wanted to take my shower and I couldn’t take my shower and I’m on a schedule and you’re like, well, if, if I have to go one day without a thing, it’s not so bad.

And I’m like, no, if I can’t have it at 3:00 PM which is my time to take a shower or whatever, like, then I freak out. But me losing internet or power is a big thing because I spend my life online. Right. Yeah. But you would just tether to your phone and use batteries for that period? Yeah, I just tethered to my phone.

That’s why you don’t remember it. It’s very different obvi. I agree. It’s different if, if it’s 15 days, but again, my point is this is something that isn’t unique to Johannesburg. What is unique is that Johannesburg has these walled gardens, and in Peru we couldn’t evade it. We [00:23:00] were in the nicest neighborhood, in the nicest city in Peru, and there were still water outages that I could be at the Marriott Hotel in Miura Flores and still experience a power outage.

Meant, you know, something different from a Johannesburg where you have backup power, you have borehole water, and you live in these walled communities. So I wanna, I wanna talk about these a little bit. And I’m gonna share some some examples of some of these, these walled estates, they have private security, they have borehole water and they look totally different from Johannesburg.

So I’m gonna send some links with some of like the little like promo videos they have.

Simone Collins: Some of the more notable ones in Johannesburg are Dan Femme Golf Estate, [00:24:00] and there’s also country gardens estate. The, the Dan Femme. Dan Dane Fme, Gar Golf estate is more old and then the country gardens estate is newer and here’s some pictures of the country gardens, estate houses.

They’re like very modern. Very pretty. You would never know that these places were in Harrisburg that interesting. There isn’t anything like this exactly. Exactly. You can’t escape the, the, the hazards of buru. Whereas in Johannesburg, you can absolutely escape it. There were like little suburb developments for like a wealthier people that you could go to.

Yeah. But you were still on the main grid. They weren’t, they weren’t these walled communities with private gardens, they didn’t have like a literally like different feeling environment, whereas right. And, and I think that this is actually, again, really telling mm-hmm. When I’m talking about the difference between a collapsing developed economy mm-hmm.

And a developing economy. Mm. Yeah, because those nice neighborhoods in Peru, like it’s with the expectation that everything’s getting better. Whereas in Johannesburg, they’ve declared [00:25:00] bankruptcy. They’re like, I don’t know. I’m just like, this is our space colony. Yeah. I’m cutting myself off from society.

Exactly. But it also is due to the extent of the collapse. It’s when you reach a certain level of collapse and this is actually something that we should probably talk about or like name in our advocacy or whatever. Mm-hmm. And I’ll call it just the inflection 0.0, which is the point at which it is worth it for communities to cut themselves off from the state grid.

Yeah. Yeah. And in Peru they haven’t reached the inflection point yet. Yeah. Because of the expectation that, well, the state grid is always getting better. Mm-hmm. That the power grid is always getting better, the water supply is always getting better. It’s gonna get better. Yeah. Is always getting better.

So even if it’s not perfect today and you know, you’ve got, like me was pretty high standards. I’m like, it’s not. Perfect, but it’s usable. Yeah. Like I can requisite this. The only reason why Simone cared is ‘cause she’s autistic about like showering and stuff like that. And she can’t be like, I’m just gonna take a shower later in the day.

God forbid. No. But in Johannesburg [00:26:00] that, and then, then that is why in Peru that even when I go to the, and we lived in the second nicest neighborhood the nice, no, we lived meter Flores is the nicest. What do you No, the nicest is better. San San Ysidro, I believe it was called. Oh, San Oh yeah.

San Ysidro was super, yeah, like more residential. San generally considered slightly nicer than Miura Flores. Miura Flores is like more touristy. San Ysidro is more like residential, bougie. Bougie. But like the thing about like San Ysidro, San Ysidro isn’t waled. You can walk through the center of this beautiful park in San Ysidro, 100% olive trees.

Yeah. And it’s just absolutely beautiful. And there were some gated parks that belonged just to really fancy apartment complexes. But they were always open. You could walk in and they did not have private security in South Africa. Yeah. There were critical gated parks, but you could just walk in like nobody cared.

We, we, on our morning walk, ‘cause we go on a walk every morning, we’d always walk through the gated communities. Mm-hmm. And nobody cared. Nobody ever stopped us. Mm-hmm. Which is very different from, I assume these gated communities in [00:27:00] Johannesburg. Where to get into them is going to be quite a thing.

And there’s also a tone thing and I wanna talk about that. Because it’s, it’s also this like. This bifurcation of society that we need to be talking about and, and, and getting ready for. Because like you keep saying, with ai, people are just gonna be left behind. They’re gonna be sort of rendered obsolete.

And absolutely. See this in Johannesburg until it happens when we did our video on like, when is AI actually gonna start changing things? When is it actually gonna change, you know, my job or my employment or anything like that? Because we, you know, we’d had fans tell us like, nothing seems to be happening yet.

Nothing seems to be happening yet. And I’m like. Guys, when when you notice it’s happened, it’s already too late. You’ve already been left behind, the ship has left for Mars. Yeah. And you’re still on earth. And now you know, we’re getting things from our fans of, you know, I was working at Amazon and you know, they did that big automation thing where they replaced tons of employees with ai.

And we’re having like our fans who, like we talk to regularly have their livelihoods replaced. And. Thi this, this is [00:28:00] now I think hitting people like, oh, they told me this was gonna happen. They told me this would change everything about my life. And, you know, I, I maybe thought that I wasn’t seeing it until it completely transformed my own life.

Interesting. It’s gonna be the same as this. Yeah. This is gonna seem like something that’s never gonna happen until it happens. To you, and then you’re like, oh yeah, people were talking about this like nine years ago or something that, that, that weird nerdy Collins couple. But it’s, it’s also just so futuristic and dystopian, like the lifestyle inside these walled gardens.

You’d think that like there’s a lot of residual guilt or like concern about, you know, the people outside or something like that. And really not, and you can kind of get a feeling for this in the Johannesburg related subreddits on Reddit where the wealthy. Post about their gardens and swinging. Like one of the, the most active Johannesburg subreddits is just for swingers in Johannesburg, really only like white people who live in these gated communities.

And when you look at the posts, you know, often it’s like expats [00:29:00] talking about what they miss, and it’s mostly the thunderstorms and the hon trees. And then, then there’s some really interesting threads where people are asking for advice on. For example, moving back and in seeing the people’s posts on like giving advice to someone, for example, who’s a, an expat from Johannesburg who moved to the UK and is thinking about going back to Johannesburg from the UK.

‘cause you know, no, I’m, I’m seeing this a lot too. We actually had a guest on our show the aristocratic utensil who’s like, yeah, I’m moving back to South Africa. The UK is just getting too sketchy. Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s, I mean, it’s a thing and it, and it’s interesting because. Keep in mind, like Johannesburg, we just read about how much of a mess it is, but to these people.

That is completely irrelevant to them because again, these are like off the grid, borehole, independent power private security communities that look like paradises, like the pictures I showed you, the links I gave you. Like, these are really nice. Well, I, they look like paradises in a way that nothing in Peru really does or limited.

Yeah. It’s like actually really high quality paradises. Even the nice stuff [00:30:00] has, like, you can tell it’s like paper thin. Yeah. And, and that actually begins to feel suffocating for a while as you’re living there. Yeah. Like the food you’re like. Mm. Like it, it’s plated beautifully and it looks like Michelin star restaurant, but it tastes like sand.

You know, it’s just not that good. It, it’s got that, that, you know, like it wasn’t really made with the highest quality ingredients. It wasn’t really made with that. Yeah. Yeah. And that there’s just nowhere you can get. And that’s the thing, because when we’re there, and this is, you know, we’ll probably begin to see this in the rest of the world too, is, we were, you know, by Peru standards because we’re making a decent salary in the us we were able to live like very wealthy people, like, you know, fancy restaurant every day, you know, et cetera. Right. And even with that, it’s. Still felt suffocating after a while. Yeah. But going back to this, this threat of, of giving advice to someone considering coming back.

One person was just, it was great ‘cause they were like, it’s a great country. Their quote was, or their post was only problem with [00:31:00] South Africa is the theft of taxes and neglect when it comes to maintaining things as well as the large amount of poor folks left out. They eventually end up doing crime is there is nothing for them to advance in this country.

So it’s a statistic that you will likely end up being a victim of crime here, as well as suffer with electricity or water issues. Otherwise, it’s a great country in all caps. But like basically what most people were saying, and here’s a representative post or, or response to their, their inquiry. It’s not too bad, especially if you have the funds to stay in a place with borehole water and backup power.

Come live here. Most people here meet people here. Spend money in small businesses. Pay the Uber drivers, enjoy the restaurants and touristy stuff you haven’t done. Spend the pounds ‘cause this person can still make money in uk, UK pounds. Our economy, benefits of the tourism, tourism maybe it suits you too.

So basically people are just like, yeah, I mean like just stay in our world gardens, it’s great here. Like everything else is horrible, but like that doesn’t [00:32:00] affect us and that that’s how it’s gonna be. The people who move off to the walled gardens everywhere in the world as this happens. But I wanna think about, because I think something that people don’t think about is how this affects.

Like your daily life if you’re living in one of these walled gardens, because it’s going to be very different than your daily life today. Yeah. Just to say that you’re not going to want to just like leave the walled gardens for a restaurant. So today, if you live in Manhattan, you can be like, oh, I wanna go to the best whatever restaurant.

Right? Like, I wanna go to a, a Chinese restaurant that fits like my specific palette and that I’ve been to before. I wanna go to a Yeah. You know, a nice Italian place or something like that when you’re in the walled gardens. You are generally gonna be locked into the restaurant that is in that particular walled garden.

Yes. Or the two or three restaurants there, or the one grocery store in that walled garden. It’s actually quite limited. You really don’t have a lot of choices. Yes. So it dramatically lowers the amount of choice you have in life. Mm-hmm. To be in [00:33:00] this environment. It’s not like you’ve actually maintained your true level of wealth.

And you still wanna be in the walled garden, though. No. You still wanna be in the walled garden, but I’ve already noticed how throughout the course of my life, the way you and I relate to consumerism has completely transformed in part due to a changing global economy. Which is to say that early in our relationship you know, we went to barbers, we went to restaurants, we relied on doctors.

We, you know, all of this. Like, we had a, a specialist who we would go to for like really we went outside the house for pretty much everything. Yeah. And now we’re trying to get more and more from within the house. And now almost everything we make, I haven’t been to a restaurant in maybe a year at this point.

When we travel, we have to eat out. When we go travel with the, but I’m talking about like when we’re at home. So it is very, very rare for us to go to restaurants. We don’t do barbers anymore. We [00:34:00] do all our own haircuts. We don’t do even when it comes to fixing things, we typically have like a guy who lives next to us who we hire like we do not do as much stuff that integrates us with the wider economy.

And this has really transformed our lives. Yeah. Well, and also we, we chose a house with a well water and we, we we don’t have a septic system like, or sorry, like a septic pit. So like that, that is one point of liability. This is something though, I wanna point out though, the importance of also looking at your infrastructure.

Like your electricity and your water and also sort of your security. And, and I wanna go into why this really matters. So, we’ve talked about this. I’m not gonna go too deep into it in, in terms of how cities are not going to be able to maintain their infrastructure as demographic collapse plays out.

Malcolm has covered that extensively in other episodes. But the long story short is that. When cities start to see lower populations as a product of demographic collapse, as the population [00:35:00] declines that doesn’t mean that the cost of maintaining their their power grid and their sewer systems goes down in proportion to the number of people like it’s, it, there’s still the same cost and it just far fewer taxpayers.

So these systems start to crumble. And you saw this happen with cities like Detroit. However, if you live in the United States, especially if you live in a suburban area, this is likely to be much worse because even with stable and sometimes growing populations in your city, you are likely to still see crumbling infrastructure.

And I think that’s, that just shows how much this problem is gonna be compounded and accelerated in certain areas, which should also factor into your calculations. So where you can learn more about this. Is from strong towns. It’s this, this movement that’s been around for over 10 years at this point, but they’ve been really pointing to the liability of American cities specifically given how they were developed.

Basically just a really short excerpt from their top sort of [00:36:00] warning. But there are really essay about this. They are, they’re really against suburbs. They’re really more for like more sustainable cities because the way that suburbs have been built in America are, is not sustainable. Here’s how they put it.

Since the end of World War ii, our cities and towns have been, have experienced local economic growth using three primary mechanisms. One, transfer payments between governments where the federal or state government makes a direct investment in growth at the local level, such as funding water system or a sewer system.

Eva expansion. Two transportation spending, where transportation infrastructure is used to improve access to a site that can then be developed. Three public and private sector debt where cities, developers, companies, and individuals take on debt as part of the development process, whether during construction or through the assumption of a mortgage.

In each of these, the local unit of government benefits immediately from all the permit fees, utility charges, and increase tax collection. This is real money that [00:37:00] provides for the current budget. Cities also assume the long-term liability for servicing and maintaining all this new infrastructure, a promise that won’t come fully due for decades.

This exchange a near-term cash advantage for a long-term financial obligation is one element of a Ponzi scheme. And, over a life cycle, a city frequently receives just a dime or two of revenue for every dollar of liability, a ridiculously low level of financial productivity.

So in long story short, cities have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like build, build the thing. And then they just don’t think about how they’re gonna pay for it over time. And now. The bills coming due. Cities are like, now they need to re redo and overhaul their sewer systems or electricity grids and there’s just not the money for it.

Yeah. So the thing with strong towns is, I’m gonna argue it’s kind of a scam system. I’ve, I’ve talked about this and it is a real problem that suburbs development in the United States are going to have to deal with. The problem is, is [00:38:00] that it is. An astronomically smaller problem than the problem the cities are dealing with.

True. Yeah, because they, they’re not, they’re not thinking about demographic lapse. They’re only thinking about like, literally if, if populations keep growing, this is an issue that needs to be addressed if things stay stable. Yeah. And they’re not thinking about the bureaucratic spiral that cities can get into.

When we talk about the increased cost of doing little things like, you know, millions of dollars for a porta-potty in New York. Right. Like. This is a, a, I think it was 10 million or something, but like, wait, what? This is the real thing that is happening in, in places like Manhattan and places like San Francisco to the point where it’s just not economically sustainable.

Yeah. And I think we’re already seeing or politically sustainable because the cities are so ideologically captured. All La Ani. Yeah. And so, the city’s. Just like, there’s no way you can fix this in the way that they wanna fix it. They wanna put all these fancy green spaces in cities Yeah. And make cities look nice and make them more walkable.

And it’s like, but that doesn’t change the roving gans of [00:39:00] criminals that no one is willing to convict. You know, that doesn’t change the unsustainable process of like converting luxury hotels into immigrant shelters and stuff like that. Yeah, no, they, they haven’t. And well, keep in mind, strong towns was founded like.

Before this was an issue, so Right, right, right. But, but. I could have predicted that it was going in this direction because I did predict it was going in this direction when I’ve talked about this before. Yeah. The suburbs, yes, they’re going to have to increase taxes but suburbs already just don’t charge a lot in taxes.

When, when contrasted with cities. Yeah. No, total cities are, cities are way more expensive. Although. And I’ll get into this in a number, another episode, but yeah, people in suburban areas may pay more taxes than you’d think and more than we ever expected. So just a note, just to note, as, as bills come due, and I think that’s one of the reasons why our taxes as people living in a a not urban area are still really high.

But I, I wanna just circle back to, to what Johannesburg shows we need to [00:40:00] expect. Basically cities where police may come when called. Don’t proactively police, like, don’t expect to be protected where you’re going. Don’t expect people to actually be prosecuted for crimes. Also a place where you may need to pay police to actually do their job, or literally just hire private security or investigators or people to solve.

Problems when they arise. You should also expect a future in which maybe like in Johannesburg, insurance companies fix some infrastructure just to reduce their own costs. But what we’re seeing more in the United States is insurance companies just leaving states entirely like the state of Florida, like the state of California.

They’re like, Nope. I’m not doing it anymore ‘cause I will not make money. Because literally like these cities are burning and, and the hurricanes are taking out entire coastal towns. I cannot, like, I cannot be solvent and function there. Yeah. So I don’t even, I think Johannesburg actually is kinda lucky in that insurance companies are filling in potholes.

It’s. Kind of nice. Yeah. Also, I do think it’s notable that in Johannesburg you have homeless people [00:41:00] directing traffic, where traffic lights are down. We are going to see citizens helping more than you might expect. And I think that that that’s, that’s cool. But you wanna live in an area, maybe like a Catholic community or an Orthodox Jewish community where you can actually expect your community to step in where the government fails.

Because in very, like, we’ll see a very like diverse urban area, like the cities you’re talking about Malcolm, right? People aren’t culturally cohesive enough to wanna help each other out. Well, they’re too divided culturally cohesive communities in cities Like the Ultra Orthodox Yeah, like sub sub communities.

But just make sure you know who’s gonna watch your back, because in many places there just isn’t that sense. Even if people who are like racially, ethnically, culturally homogenous, sometimes you don’t get that quite often you don’t get that. So you just, especially in like a progressive liberal area.

People aren’t really, they don’t have each other’s backs the same way. I find at least that’s not, you know, I didn’t grow up with that sense. And then you also need to just expect more of these walled communities with private security and independent backup water, electricity, and you’re already [00:42:00] seeing this kind of starting to happen.

I mean, like, there’s sort of this wealthy early adopter thing and what, you know, and you can already see in various places is for example. Mark Zuckerberg and Peter Thiel building their walled gardens and compounds. I’m sending you a picture of architectural renderings of Peter Thiel’s, New Zealand compound.

Mm-hmm. That’s sort of built into a hillside, obviously, you know, like to, you know, for like nuclear protection or whatever, but it’s quite modern and pretty. Mark Zuckerberg’s Hawaiian compound, which is called. Lau ranch or whatever it, it features a 5,000 square foot underground shelter connected by two mansions like it was, sorry, connects two mansions with tunnels.

There’s a blast proof concrete and metal door. There’s an escape hatch. There’s living areas. It has, has its own supplies. So, billionaires are early adopters in this and they’re taking it way overboard, but they’re trying to sort of build their own little. Atomized version of a walled garden. But then I would also point to the fact that we know, I’m not gonna name anyone, but like.[00:43:00]

We know, we, we know people who are being sort of sponsored by very, very wealthy benefactors to try to create new walled gardens. We were at one point, for example, invited to join a bunch of this, like one of these people who’s sort of being sponsored to investigate this and some of her influential techie friends to spend some time together in this community in.

I think upstate New York, right? Called Chautauqua. I just sent you a bunch of pictures that we took when we were there, which is kind of this like main street, USA very romantic, very pretty forgotten. Very much walled Garden City. Remember the security we had to go through to get in? Yeah, yeah. It was, it is very fan.

You pay, you even paid admission fee to get in. Do you remember that? Yeah. So there are already communities like this that people are now trying to replicate. Well, because I think culturally America is more amenable to this in to the extent that a lot of Americans are already attempting to do this.

Like I think the American sort of settler [00:44:00] selection pressures. That, especially if you’re talking about the Americans whose ancestors went to the west and stuff like that. Yeah. Really selects for, you know, wanting to be cut off from the rest of society. Yeah. And so, and then we see it in all these different ways that like, you have the billionaire compounds, you have already existing walled garden communities like Chautauqua.

And I wanna point out Chautauqua isn’t like this, this conservative, it’s actually like a super NPR Liberal, barefoot Jew. Clinton kind of like a beautiful, idealistic American. Maybe a little bit waspy too, but like it’s, it is not, it’s not a conservative gun toting. Militia place. Yeah, it is, it is where very progressive, influential speakers go to speak at an amphitheater.

It’s very idyllic. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the NPR tote bag of a, an idyllic walled paradise. But yeah, that, that also techies are trying to replicate it in their own image in their own way. But then there’s also, of course, the, [00:45:00] the city states. There’s the ProsperUS, there’s the praxis. Of, of it all where people are trying to create these more like sort of tech forward entrepreneurial communities.

So just like it is already happening and we should just be paying way more attention to where it’s happening and how it’s happening. And I, what I want people to really consider carefully is where their families should be set up long term. Logistically, what’s the climate like? How much can you get energy and water independence?

What’s the security situation? How about food security? And, and how can you, how. Energy, water and food independent, can you get because these things are going to increasingly matter. And while these well gardens work in Johannesburg, now, I don’t know how long they’re gonna work because right now they’re, they’re basically being funded by the.

Sort of inherited wealth, a lot of remote workers, you know, like, so just, I, I want people to think about these things and I hope that, that talking about Johannesburg and how it’s been playing out and how other communities like these are playing out will help people think about it. Yep.

No, I think [00:46:00] that, that looking at the way that developing economies and developing sort of infrastructure is different from, from a collapsing developed economy. That’s also a really good point. Yeah. A place on the upswing is very different from a place on the downswing and.

Places like Lima are going to be on the downswing eventually, right? Like there’s just no getting around it. Yeah, and this is, this is true across Latin America. Like Latin America is uniquely effed right now because Latin America got a lot of its business dealing commodities with China. And China is sort of in a state of collapse right now.

So, the downswing that you’re seeing across Latin America is unlikely to abate. And, and Africa’s the same way. Africa did a lot of commodity trading to China. And so, mm-hmm. These types of countries are only going to get worse. Like the corruption in Johannesburg is not going to get better.

Unless you like, I don’t know. Had some sort of a military coup or something like that, but even that’s all too corrupt at this [00:47:00] point. Yeah, it’s all too corrupt. Yeah, I think, yeah. The reason why Johannesburg SH is this early beacon of this walled garden future dystopia is. sorry, my, my laptop is very little battery capacity and I didn’t plug it in. The, the reason why Johannesburg has these walled gardens is, is because basically like the post apart apartheid mess that was created [00:48:00] and all the corruption has produced.

A world where everyone, it’s just, it’s unfixable. Whereas everywhere else there’s like this plausible fix ability. And well, I think you need sort of dictatorial style like El Salvador, like leadership to get fixed. That could happen. Yeah. Fix ability in, but I almost think it could happen was in Johannesburg, unless you went back to like an apartheid like system but not necessarily an apartheid where whites are on the top.

Like maybe it’ll be one tribe is on the top or something like that. Ooh, Wakanda. Yes. You, you, you, you basically. Need. See, the problem with Johannesburg right now is there’s too many factions and none of them really care about any of the other ones. That is, yeah, that is a big problem. There’s just like a lot of, I can’t remember the specific tribes that like really freaking hate each other. Yeah. And, and, and so, they’re all sort of pulling from the same pool and they are just like, well, how do I help mine? Right. Because they don’t really care that their actions are unsustainable or hurting. So I never really ended or hurting wider society.

Well, no. What I, what I’m saying here is I’m not [00:49:00] saying apartheid with good. Nobody clipped this and say that. I’m saying apartheid with good. But what I’m saying is, is that, if you had just one of the tribes incontrovertibly at the top of society then they would understand that. If they acted in a corrupt way, they hurt their own tribe the most.

Yeah. Right. And so that’s how you can build a society that works, but because they all are pulling from the same pool, it’s almost like, okay, suppose you have like an investment fund, right? And we have a big pile of money. And that money is supposed to be invested in things that make a a, a return every year.

Right. However, I am sharing this pool with a hundred other people, and any one of those people can come and take money from that pool whenever they want. It’s a classic tragedy of the competi. Yes. So I am effed. I’m like, well then I gotta take as much as I can right now because everyone else is taking from it.

But now suppose that only my family could take from that pool. Well now all of a sudden I have a, a [00:50:00] reason to not take from the pool because I want my family to benefit from. Right. And that’s the problem that you have in South Africa that you’re going to increasingly have because of incredibly loose immigration policies that have caused cultures and groups of people to immigrate to countries where they have no sort of shared identity or belief in a, in a collective outcome.

More tragedies of the common, yeah. Yeah. So prepare for the end. We love you all. Yeah. The weird thing, so many people, they’re like, are you in different houses? You know, seeing you walk in at the end of a video, prove that we are one, not the same person in drag, just rerecording these episodes, and two, that we are actually in the same house and that when my laptop dies, I just tiptoe into Malcolm’s room.

All right. I love you. I’m glad we got these episodes in. I love you too. It was a great episode. Thank you so much. Aw, thank you. Aw. And now I’m gonna go help Octavian

Speaker 4: what are you guys watching? We’re watching a plane. He’s crying. [00:51:00] What guy? Describe if Iy will see him. Where did he go? He’s going over there. Oh. Got the egg. He up. I think he has a baby. Wait, I think saw a baby. Well, that’s a big praying mantis. I think he just, I think he just got a baby dude. Why, guys? Baby, you do slept in the squash.

Speaker 5: Daddy, did you know that praying mantis eat their husbands, the mommies eat the daddies and the praying mantis. I can’t

see. So why guys grab the,

Speaker 4: okay, go watch it Octavian, or you’ll miss it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we have to. That’s the mommy one.

Speaker 4: Yes, that’s the mommy one. The daddy ones are smaller in praying.

Speaker 5: The daddy wants our babies.

Speaker 4: No, they’re not babies. They’re just smaller.

Speaker 5: Now I see a little better.

Speaker 4: You know how mommy’s smaller than daddy?

Speaker 5: [00:52:00] That’s.

In this episode of Based Camp, Simone and Malcolm Collins explore the plight of men who choose to embark on parenthood despite the myriad challenges they face finding wives and having children in the modern age through the lens of recent social media controversy surrounding a programmer named Ben Orenstein. Join the Collinses as they discuss the criticisms Ben faced and dive into a guide to surrogacy and single fatherhood created by Based Camper Revy. We hope you find the conversation interesting!

For quick access, here’s Revy’s Guide.

As this was a Simone-presented episode, here’s the outline! The episode transcript is at the end.

Based Camp - Men Parenting Their Own Way Get Hate

The X Controversy

Ben Orenstein Controversy on X

* Ben: “I’m giving myself about another year of searching for a partner, but will then pursue single fatherhood. I’m still hopeful it won’t be necessary, but in the end I can’t allow myself to miss out on raising children. Even having gone this long without them is an agony”

* This is in response to a post by Romy Holland: “i know two guys who are considering having kids via surrogate bc they badly want children but haven’t been able to find partners to do it with. they’re both extremely successful and love kids. i dunno what’s going on with dating but i don’t think it’s just men being anti-commitment and women being too picky.”

* IN FAIRNESS, BEN IS ONLY “kind of” (his words) COMMITTED TO MONOGAMY

* “Before I send your profile to a friend, and just based on the water you seem to be swimming in, I have to ask—are you looking for a monogamous relationship?”

* “Kind of. Gonna add a section about this in my doc shortly.”

* Jesse Genet weighed in: “Kind of? I gotta be blunt as a pregnant lady who has children… this is disqualifying… child rearing requires monogamy, full stop. Children need a strong partnership, adults that don’t grasp that family formation comes before keeping intimacy options open aren’t cut out for it.”

* Ben: “Strong partnership and monogamy are *not* the same, and people confuse this to their *extreme* detriment.”

* Supporters

* Captain Weak Hands @drysvictim my baby sister was born via surrogacy and we have a lasting, close relationship with not only the surrogate but her family as well. i have yet to hear from a surrogacy critic with any lived experience

* Illaria DiMar @IllariaDiMar My neighbor loved being a surrogate. I’m pretty conservative but don’t see how surrogacy is any different than infant adoption. The surrogate is often using someone else’s eggs... whats wrong with gamete donation. Humans have been raising non biological offspring for a very long time!

* Critics:

* Ben: Dude is almost ready to give up on his *wife search* and buy a baby but is he looking for a monogamous relationship? “Kind of” Sure, being a dad is the greatest thing but buying a baby is DARK. Earn the love of a good woman and turn that love into kids.

* Schrödinger’s Lesbian ⚢ Another reason why I changed my position on Surrogacy. These people do not care about the welfare of the babies or mothers. To them a baby is a mere commodity.

* Emma O Connor: I changed my position as well. Ben is acting like he’s owed a child.

* Victoria @VictoriaLandy2 The problem people have is that these babies are created with the purpose of being adopted for money, not the adoption itself

* Eric @Eric85Astoria Donating eggs is dangerous for the woman donating. The donor and surrogate both take high doses of hormones. The egg removal procedure can cause ovarian scarring and leave the egg donor infertile. Surrogate pregnancies have x3 the complication rate and can cause health issues.

* Simone Checking: Do gestational surrogacy pregnancies have higher rates of complications? Is there a reporting bias at play?

* Multiple large studies and recent meta-analyses indicate that gestational carriers experience substantially increased rates of severe maternal morbidity compared to natural conception and even standard IVF.

* For example, a Canadian study reviewing over 863,000 births found that gestational surrogates had a 7.8% rate of severe maternal complications—over three times higher than those pregnant without assisted reproductive technologies (about 2.3%) and almost twice the rate found in IVF pregnancies. These risks persist even when controlling for age, health history, and other demographic variables.

* Katy Faust: The adults- intended parents, the surrogate (and if applicable sperm/egg sellers)- are all often very happy with the surrogacy arrangements. But surrogacy always asks children to sacrifice someone they need, deserve, and have a right too.

* This is a retweet of Mars {the style oracle} saying: “part of my calling has always been “talking about my experience as an adoptee at all costs.” many people have NO idea what the average adoptee/surrogate child experiences, especially when separated from the mother. even when separated at birth (or, tbh, ESPECIALLY separated at birth). it can leave an insane void.”

* They proceed to go into it with a whole essay

* even growing up with an objectively good childhood, my attachment issues were insane. 7 years of therapy of several modalities were able to get me to the point where my boyfriend at the time could go out for the night and i wouldn’t be crying and calling him 60 times, begging him to come back because i couldn’t physically get out of the fetal position or move. any hint of abandonment and my body would completely lock up. my life was hell. i could not sleep alone. i made his life hell, too.

* i think this is something to consider when looking at adoption or surrogacy. do i think it would be better for me to not exist at all? no, i think it’s fine that i’m alive. but i wish my parents had looked into attachment issues, that the adoption had been more open, that i had had more than 1 hour of contact with my birth mother before i was thrust into an unfamiliar environment where i didn’t know anyone who looked or acted like me at all.

* there are ways to mitigate this, i believe. one of the biggest ways to address this level of trauma is for any prospective parents to come to terms with the possibility of these issues, and steel themselves emotionally for what their child might come to them with.

* among adoptees, i’m kind of considered a “success story,” in the sense that i didn’t experience reactive attachment very strongly. but it can be a tough road emotionally, and parents need to be ready to LISTEN to their children and other people who are children of adoption and surrogacy.

* Mason: I don’t think all surrogacy is strictly unethical but I do think the birth mother should obviously have an ongoing relationship with the child, something that is apparently unfathomable to most people interested in using a surrogate

* I don’t think there is any way around the fact that carrying a baby is the closest and most intimate relationship between two people that can exist It can never be solely a service, nothing more. That will always be kind of a farce, and I think most people know that deep down

* Ben: This seems reasonable to me. In my ideal world, a surrogate would be a close personal friend.

* Mason: I think this bodes very well actually and pretty dramatically changes my impression of your plans

Is Adoption Actually Screwed Up?

Let’s ask Grok:

Yes, research consistently shows that **adoptees have higher rates of mental health problems** compared to non-adopted children raised in intact biological families. The differences are substantial and persist across countries, study designs, and decades of research.

### Key findings on adoptees vs. non-adoptees

- **Meta-analyses** (e.g., 2021 meta-analysis in *Psychological Medicine* of 62 studies, N > 100,000 adoptees):

- Adoptees are **2–4 times more likely** to have externalizing disorders (ADHD, conduct disorder, substance abuse).

- **2–3 times more likely** for internalizing disorders (depression, anxiety).

- **4–5 times higher risk** of suicide attempts and completed suicide (Swedish total-population studies).

- **Large registry studies** (Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands):

- Even after controlling for parental education, income, and parental psychiatric history, adoptees still show **elevated risk** (odds ratios ~1.5–3.0).

- The risk is **dose-dependent**: international adoptees > domestic infant adoptees > non-adopted.

- **Reasons commonly cited** (not mutually exclusive):

- Prenatal environment (higher rates of maternal substance use, stress).

- Early adversity (institutionalization, foster care placements before adoption).

- Genetic risk (biological parents of children placed for adoption have higher rates of psychiatric disorders).

- Identity struggles and feelings of abandonment in adolescence.

### Egg/embryo donation children vs. adoptees

Children conceived via **donated gametes** (egg, sperm, or embryo) are **not equivalent** to adoptees in mental health outcomes. They generally resemble children conceived naturally within their families.

- **Major studies**:

- UK Millennium Cohort Study & Avon Longitudinal Study (2020s):

- No elevated risk of behavioral problems or psychiatric diagnosis in donor-conceived children compared to naturally conceived peers when raised in stable families.

- Swedish total-population registry (2023, N ≈ 1 million):

- Donor-conceived children had **similar or slightly lower** rates of psychiatric contact than naturally conceived children.

- Meta-analysis (2022, *Fertility and Sterility*):

- No significant differences in emotional/behavioral outcomes between donor-conceived and naturally conceived children up to age 18.

- **Key difference**:

- Donor-conceived children are **planned and wanted** from the start, raised by their intended parents, no separation trauma.

- Adoptees (especially domestic/international) often experience **early separation**, sometimes institutional care or multiple placements.

### Direct comparisons

A few studies directly compare the three groups:

| Group | Relative risk of psychiatric disorder (vs. naturally conceived, same-family) |

|--------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| Naturally conceived | 1.0 (reference) |

| Egg/embryo/sperm donation | 0.9–1.2 (no significant elevation) |

| Domestic infant adoption | 1.5–2.5 |

| International adoption | 2.0–4.0 |

| Late adoption (>12 months) | 3.0–6.0 |

(Compiled from Swedish, Danish, Dutch registry studies 2018–2024)

### Bottom line

- **Adoptees**: Yes, significantly higher mental health risks, even in “best-case” domestic infant adoptions.

- **Egg/embryo donation children**: No elevated risk compared to naturally conceived children; outcomes are essentially identical when raised in stable families.

The difference is driven primarily by **early separation and adversity**, not by “not living with biological parents” per se. Donor-conceived children never experience that separation.

Do children born through surrogacy show higher rates of mental health issues?

No evidence of adverse psychological outcomes for children.

* Medical and mental health implications of gestational surrogacy (2021)

* https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33839094/

* Based on this review, we found no evidence of substantial adverse medical or psychological outcomes among women who are gestational carriers or among the children they give birth to. The literature suggests that gestational surrogacy is a safe and increasingly popular option for families as long as rigorous screening and medical, psychological, and social supports are equitably provided.

The WIRED Article

https://www.wired.com/story/the-baby-died-whose-fault-is-it-surrogate-pregnancy/

The Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It?

When her son died in utero, a venture capitalist went to extremes to punish her surrogate.

* Cindy Bi, a venture capitalist, hired a surrogate to carry her only male embryo. The baby (Leon) died in utero, leading Bi to wage an intensive campaign against the surrogate, Rebecca Smith, including lawsuits, doxing, and regulatory complaints.

* Smith (the surrogate), a single mom, was selected for her profile and underwent extensive vetting; she hoped surrogacy would help pay off debt.

* The pregnancy was complicated by insurance changes, medical stress, and contractual disputes.

* After the baby’s stillbirth at 29 weeks due to placental abruption, Bi pursued multiple legal avenues, blaming Smith for alleged unsafe behaviors and contract breaches, and leveraging her resources for public and private retribution

* Smith faced unemployment, disability, mounting medical debt, legal harassment, and online threats. She suffered severe emotional distress and suicidal thoughts as Bi continued her campaign.Bi later had another child via a different surrogate, who also experienced significant medical complications

* The case exemplifies how lack of regulation, confidentiality, and extreme inequality in surrogacy can turn the “miracle of life” into a venue for trauma, litigation, and financial ruin, with few protections for surrogates.

* https://archive.is/MC8ng

How do Children of Single Fathers Fare?

Family Type

Academic/Emotional/Behavioral Outcomes

Intact Marriages

Highest outcomes, greater stability

Single Fathers

Better than single mothers, below intact

Single Mothers

Slightly lower outcomes than single fathers

Lesbian Mothers

No systematic difference vs. other types

Gay Fathers

Equal or better outcomes vs. other groups

* Children raised by single fathers tend to have somewhat better academic, emotional, and behavioral outcomes than those raised by single mothers, but both groups generally fare less well than children from intact marriages

* Recent well-controlled research broadly finds that children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers do not systematically differ in emotional, behavioral, social, or cognitive outcomes compared to those raised in different-sex parent households, once socioeconomic status and family stability are accounted for

One MGTOW’s How-To Guide

* Revy / MGTOW Single Parenting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IBxfNtZpds8PK8sPiDjKiklSl6NmVE5Zbn4X5JlWtsc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.pqgrwixwc6rr

* Great resource!

Episode Transcript:

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Malcolm. I’m excited to be with you today because we’re seeing a really good trend, but also it’s complicated in that men are going baby crazy, they’re getting baby fever, but now everyone hates them for it, so screw them.

Right? And this could have exploded across X earlier this week when poor bore Ben Orenstein shared his sentiment. In,

in response to Roy Holland tweeting, I know two guys who are considering having kids via a surrogate because they badly want children but haven’t been able to find partners to do it with.

They’re both extremely successful and love kids. I don’t know what’s going on with dating, but I don’t think it’s just men being non-commitment and women being too picky. To which Ben responded. I’m giving myself about another year before searching for a partner. But we’ll then pursue single fatherhood.

I’m still hopeful it won’t be necessary, but in the end, I can’t allow myself to miss out on raising children. Even having gone this long [00:01:00] without them is agony. So this is the tweet the sparked the storm, which inherently,

Malcolm Collins: but I get. If I didn’t have kids at this stage in my life

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I would be living in an existential agony every day.

And I mean,

Simone Collins: and that’s, isn’t that what women are complaining about? Like, oh, these men, they don’t want kids. Like I just. Wish I could find a man who wants to have kids. And, and here’s a man who’s, who’s saying that not having kids is agony in, in a world of demographic collapse and people not having, it’s

Malcolm Collins: funny, I hear the exact opposite.

I think I hear a lot more men’s who want kids struggling to find a woman who is willing to have kids.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s what shows up in the data for sure. It’s not what shows up in women’s complaints when they’re dating. But in the data, when you look at polling as we’ve covered extensively, it’s men who report wanting to get married and have kids and women don’t.

And certainly also culturally, women talk about the mental load and how women fare better after divorces, whereas men fare worse. And how, you know what, marriage is just a scam for women. So you’re, you’re right. [00:02:00] And, but you know, still, I, I just feel like it’s, in general, it’s great that men want to have kids, but screw them for that.

So. While a lot of people initially responded to his post saying, oh, you know, I hope you find your person. Like, this is, this is wonderful. I’m, I’m sorry you’re struggling with this. Then the criticism came in, which is what X is great for. It’s not as as good since Elon took over because all the super liberal people went to blue Sky and stopped.

You know, all the hate went there, which is a little annoying. I thought it was better with more people. Yeah. We joked

Malcolm Collins: that they ‘cause they trump trapped them in a crystal. Yeah. And that’s blue sky. And now they’re just like yelling Yeah. That nobody could hear them. Banging on the walls of the crystal dimension.

Simone Collins: [00:03:00] Yeah. So, you know, a lot of people were, were supportive, but then some details came out that people found irksome. So one of the biggest problems that came out initially was that in fairness, Ben is only in his words. Kind of committed to monogamy. Someone had posted before I send your profile to a friend.

And just based on the, the water you seem to be swimming in, I have to ask, are you looking for a monogamous relationship to which Ben responded kind of. Gonna add a section about this to my doc shortly. I guess he probably has a marriage bounty. I haven’t found the doc yet. And then Jesse GT weighed in, kind of, I gotta be blunt, as a pregnant lady who has children, this is disqualifying childbearing requires monogamy.

Full stop. Children need a strong partnership. Adults that don’t grasp that family formation comes before. Keeping intimacy options open aren’t cut out for it. To which Ben responded, strong partnerships in [00:04:00] monogamy are not the same, and people confuse this to their extreme detriment. So already there’s disagreement that it’s not true

right

Malcolm Collins: away.

They, they are highly correlated. Like, but I’d also point out here, and this, this is one of these, you know, poly things and so you always are like, and they’re like, you can be just as committed to your partner. As a monogamous couple.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s like you really actually can’t, if you are having to split your commitment, especially if you have kids with someone between multiple families Yeah.

You are not actually dedicated to that person. Yeah. But it’s, it’s more than that. It is that once you, and this is the thing, I don’t think that this should be disqualifying for him because I’ve seen it over and over and over again. When, when people who. Are sort of committed to polyamory or even quite committed to polyamory, have children that commitment evaporates really quickly, especially for guys.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because they’re, as, as we’ve covered extensively, their testosterone plummets. This was recently tested to I think, a new research as well that showed just how much testosterone plummets after men have kids. And yeah, [00:05:00] then they just have less of a desire to go out and, and have you know, a lot of.

Additional partners. I would also though, I, I would say that there, I, there is a little bit of, of criticism that I think is due to Ben because if you really do wanna prioritize having kids and most women aren’t really comfortable having kids outside of a monogamous marriage you might need to let that go for a little bit and, and, and maybe renegotiate later in your marriage.

When you got married to me this was something we discussed. I think you certainly like Ben, going into the concept of marriage. Did not intend to be monogamous. In fact, for a while, yeah. Before we got married, you were like, oh, Simone will be my side piece after I get married. That was like, I, I really think it was something you were entertaining mentally because I think it’s just something that men at that age will entertain.

But then when we got serious and when we got committed, I was like, listen, like I’m not comfortable with an open relationship or a monogamous relationship, and you respected that. And then it was [00:06:00] after I felt more secure in myself, and then in our relationship there was like, dude, I don’t care. You do what you wanna do.

Like, I’m confident enough in myself that I don’t think that you are having. And by that time I was

Malcolm Collins: like, I don’t

Simone Collins: see the point anymore. See, and that’s the thing. And so it all resolves itself. But the thing is, is that you knew what your priorities were. Your priority was having a family and having kids.

And a and, and to get that, that’s

Malcolm Collins: actually a great way to put it. Yeah. When we got married, I still wanted to sleep with other people.

Simone Collins: But you didn’t because you had something you wanted more.

Malcolm Collins: I have

Simone Collins: the thing I working more and here’s him saying I don’t, I’m not willing to concede on that, which is a signal that he isn’t as committed as.

He should be if he actually, if, if having, if not having kids is actually agony to him. Should I just wanna for audience,

Malcolm Collins: basically you knew that I wanted to sleep with other people. Yeah. I

Simone Collins: found

Malcolm Collins: other women

Simone Collins: attracted explicitly. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I decided not to. Yeah. Because you were more important. My

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Family was more important than that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then one day you come to me and you’re like, you know what? I’m feeling very secure. And if you, if you, if that’s still [00:07:00] something that would make you happy. You can do that if you want to. And I was like, well, I don’t really want to do it anymore. Maybe that’s why you feel secure.

Simone Collins: And still, still, I think again. You gotta put your money where your mouth is. And, and that is, that is an issue. Still though, I, I wanna point out it wasn’t just people, hold

Malcolm Collins: on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I wanna point something out here. So,

Simone Collins: all right.

Malcolm Collins: You’ve got people like me who are like, not that dedicated to the polyamorous lifestyle, but I wanna talk because, you know, we’ve had ‘em on the show and it’s, this is a pretty documented change of theirs.

You know, like, Joffrey Miller and, what’s her face? Diana

Simone Collins: Fleischman.

Malcolm Collins: Diana Fleischman. They’re married. They have kids now, and they have things that they have like written on, like the philosophy of like polyamory, right? Like if you go back to some of their earlier works like this is, they, they weren’t just like polyamorous.

They were like the promoters of it, right? And now they are. I, I think quietly and eventually likely publicly moving towards a much more monogamous structure that they have

Simone Collins: kids, oh, they’re raising kids. I mean, like, these things ebb and flow and, and that’s how you should treat it. But anyway there, there were plenty of [00:08:00] people who still nevertheless were supportive.

Captain Weak Hands said, my baby sister was born via surrogacy and we had a. Lasting close relationship, not only with the surrogate but her family as well. I’ve yet to hear from a surrogacy critic with any lived experience. And then Aria and DeMar said my neighbor loved being a surrogate. I’m pretty conservative, but don’t see how surrogacy is any different than infant adoption.

The surrogate is often using someone else’s eggs, wants what’s wrong with gae donation. Humans have been raising a non-biological offspring for a very long time. But then the critics came in again Ben, a different Ben said Dude is almost ready to give up on his wife’s search and buy a baby. But he is looking for monogamous relationship, kind of.

Sure, being a dad is the greatest thing, but buying a baby. Dark, earn the love of a good woman and turn that love into kids. And then most, so Ben was a male critic here, but most of the critics here were actually women, which I think [00:09:00] is just notable Schrodinger’s lesbian chimed in to say, women

Malcolm Collins: be mad that men have

Simone Collins: other options.

Yeah, exactly. Chimed in to say another reason why I changed my position on surrogacy. These people do not care about the welfare of the babies or mothers. To them, a baby is a mere commodity. Emma O’Connor, I have seen

Malcolm Collins: nothing that suggested he

Simone Collins: feels that way. No, absolutely not. No, no, because he, he’s saying not having kids as agony for him.

Right. Emma O’Connor. Chimes in to say I changed my position as well. Ben is acting like he’s owed a child. Victoria. No,

Malcolm Collins: no. Hold on. These women are the reason why. This is the thing where, where the dudes may get out there, conservative man.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: Or like surrogacy or surrogate, surrogacy, evil, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I, I understand surrogacy is not sustainable. I, I wouldn. You know, I don’t think it’s the greatest thing ever. However I am very confused when it’s like, but you know that there are not enough good women for the good men in this world. Like when I was taking every guy who I thought was like mentally sane and stable and had a good job and would be a great dad I would [00:10:00] bet there are probably double the amount of them as there are women that would match them.

Or at least a third

Simone Collins: one. Well, yeah, and we’re not even in China, you know, it’s like literally fewer women. And then the few that exist as, as see our episode on like dating in China falling apart like realistically. Yeah, continue. What, what, what I, I don’t have quotes from, because I just didn’t wanna even delve into this, but like there are also little sub conversations within this whole storm about women being like, you know, and women should have the right to abort and all this.

And so like, women are complaining about this man, quote unquote, buying a baby. But then they’re also being like, and I have the right to kill babies whenever I want. You know, if it’s my body, my choice, and I’m just like, ah. Like I don’t, you’re casting judgment in a weird way. Another woman Victoria, wrote the problem.

The problem people have is that these babies are created with the purpose of being adopted for money, not the adoption itself. So people are really uncomfortable with the idea of surrogacy [00:11:00] and men paying for babies. But again, so here’s, here’s where men are right now. They’re being put in this position where there aren’t women who are willing to embark on a relationship with them, especially if they’re not willing to do exactly the type of relationship that these women want.

And then when they just choose to then find a way to. Put money to the problem and solve it. You know, pay someone to help them make this happen, then they get charted for that as well. Then Eric weighed in to say, donating eggs is dangerous for the woman donating the donor and surrogate both take on high doses of hormones.

The egg removal procedure can cause ovarian scarring. Leave the egg donor infertile, surrogate pregnancies have three times the complication rate and can cause health issues. Now this is interesting, and this is something that I as a man who would be considered considering surrogacy would be like, oh wait, what’s this?

So I did look into it. I didn’t, I didn’t know this, but I asked both grok and perplexity if, if gestational surrogacy pregnancies have higher rates of [00:12:00] complications and if there’s a reporting bias at play. ‘cause I imagine that there would be.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: And long, long story short, yeah, actually multiple large studies and recent meta-analyses that, that.

Would control for these things indicate that gestational carriers experience substantially like three x An increase in your body

Malcolm Collins: is designed to hold your

Simone Collins: children. Right, exactly. That, that’s, that’s what people think. Yeah. That, that the, the primary theory is that this is not your genetic material and therefore.

Yeah, there there’s gonna be problems and studies looked at large numbers of pregnancies. So there was one Canadian study that reviewed over 863,000 births, and they found that gestational surrogates have a 7.8% rate of severe maternal complications. So like one out 10. You as a surrogate are gonna have a severe complication.

That’s, that’s pretty serious.

Malcolm Collins: I understand that. People are like, that’s pretty serious. That’s pretty big, but that’s one out of 10 for, you know, and then nine out of 10 bring a healthy baby into this world that lives an entire [00:13:00] life. Right? Like the, the, the denying someone of life. Is a big, big thing to do.

Yeah. And to say that, well, the woman risked her health so that you could, of course that’s a, that is a very sane trade off one person’s health for another person’s life. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That’s actually, it’s, so that’s a really good point because another, another person was pointing out that like their issue with this was the adoption part.

Katie Faust wrote The adults Intended Parents, the Surrogate and If App applicable. The sperm and egg sellers are all often very happy with the surrogacy arrangements, but surrogacy always asks children to sacrifice someone they need, deserve, and have the right to, to which this, this, basically this person called Mars, the style Oracle.

Said part of my calling has always been talking about my experience as an adoptee at all costs. Many people have no idea what the average adoptee slash surrogate child experience is, especially when separated from the mother. Especially when [00:14:00] separated at birth, it can leave an insane void.

They proceeded to go into this whole essay on how miserable they were, and I just wanna show you like how, how like messed up this person is, but even they are really glad that they’re alive still, and that’s the point. But they wrote, even growing up with an objectively good childhood, my attachment issues were insane.

Seven years of therapy of several modalities were able to get me to the point. When my boyfriend at the time could go out for the night and I wouldn’t be crying and calling him 60 times, begging him to come back because I couldn’t physically get out of the fetal position or move. This is her,

Malcolm Collins: did she do, this is the therapy that’s causing this nonsense.

This is, I know, right? Behavior. It’s

Simone Collins: probably, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This is, I, I, as I said, like. Of all of the things that happened to me in my childhood, the least traumatic was boarding school. And yet there are entire communities of people who are, who will have these things. Like, oh, I had to leave my family. And I felt, oh, and it was so terrible.

And I’m like, boarding

Simone Collins: school dude. There’s, there’s a trauma support group for everything. There’s a trauma support group for the people who discover [00:15:00] siblings of, you know, IVF donors that they find sexually attractive and they’re like, ah, now I’m traumatized ‘cause I’m attracted to my brother. This is actually

Malcolm Collins: really messing with me because you get people saying this.

Yeah. And I think it’s a disgusting thing to say when people say a child deserves two parents, I’m like, it would be great if children got two parents. Right? But yeah. There are very few people on this planet who would say,

Simone Collins: I’d rather not live.

Malcolm Collins: I would not be alive.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Than have. Well, and this person wrote, they said, do I think it would be better for me to not exist at all?

No, I think it’s fine that I’m alive. Well still, but they’re, they’re glad they exist and they just, they’re just trying to raise awareness about this. And I do wanna like,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no, no. This isn’t a small point. This. Because I get this within conservative communities all the time, and people act like they’re saying something that is sane and good when they are not.

They are saying something that is evil and shortsighted. They are saying that [00:16:00] certain humans should have life denied to them. If they can’t live life within this person’s preferred parameters.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That is a disgusting thing to say. And, and you go out there and you think, you look cool saying this, you don’t look cool.

You look like a psychopath because,

Simone Collins: well, and let’s, if we look at the research, if

Malcolm Collins: we look at the.

Simone Collins: Malcolm, you’ve made your

Malcolm Collins: point right to life is equivalent in value to the right, to having two parents. And these two things are not equivalent in value at all. Not not

Simone Collins: to

Malcolm Collins: any living human.

Simone Collins: They’re not. But you’ve made your point.

So in, in, in terms of men being like, listen, I’m just gonna make t be a single father. Like, let’s actually look at this though. Yes, adoptees and we’re talking adoptees you know, do, do have higher rates of mental health problems, but there’s a lot of reasons why that’s the case. You know, like the people who give children up for adoption often have a lot of issues.

You know, maybe. Their mothers were on drugs or, or, you know, had alcohol problems and also all sorts of other things really [00:17:00] complicated. But yeah, absolutely. Adoptees have higher rates of mental health problems compared to non adopt children. However, children conceive via donated gametes are not equivalent to adoptees from mental health comes.

They, they, they basically resemble children conceived na naturally. So all these people who are trying to equate. This, this guy’s decision to have a child via surrogacy to a child via adoption? No. Like the, this is totally not fair comparison. Yeah. Also, and also there is

Malcolm Collins: not a big negative effect for single parents if the single parent is a male.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. So, there’s, there’s that too. So how do shingle children of single fathers fair? So obviously the highest outcomes with greatest stability come from intact marriages. And that. It, it really is. I, it helps a lot to have two parents. There’s no systematic difference when it’s lesbian mothers once they control for a lot of factors.

Yeah, yeah, sure. Same for, same for gay fathers, though. The [00:18:00] data shows that the outcomes are equal or better for gay fathers, and then single fathers are better than single mothers, but they are below intact marriages. But here’s the thing is that. Ben, the original Ben of the, of this thread and the storm wants to find a partner and he says that even if he does take this path of having a child via gestational surrogacy.

He is going to hopefully find a life partner eventually and raise the child with them. In the interim, he plans on having a lot of help. He wants to have just even for starters, a full-time live-in nanny. Which of course made everyone freak out even more because. He doesn’t plan on raising the child all by himself.

But then of course if he said he was gonna raise a child all by himself within a nanny, people would be like, the child needs more support than that. So like, there’s nothing that he can do. Right. And I think this is the thing is we have a decent number of MGTOW people in this, in this audience. Many, many of whom have we know for a fact had their kids on their own, who are planning [00:19:00] to have kids on their own and don’t wait for approval from society, basically, like no matter what you do.

You are going to be derated and this whole Twitter storm around Ben absolutely shows that

Malcolm Collins: We’ve had fans of the show reach out to us about their journey on this, and we’re gonna go over one because he goes over all the finances of doing it and everything, and it was really cool.

Simone Collins: Yeah. In fact, let’s, let’s just dive into that because I, I think he created a really cool guide.

So one, we have obviously like the, the, the coolest audience ever. And one of our audience members he goes by re. He’s a meg tail and he created after going through the process himself, he now has a newborn or maybe a little bit older than that now, who he had through surrogacy. We’re gonna, he created a surrogacy guide, a Google doc, which we will share.

I’ll, I’ll put it in the description of this video. And on the Substack and Patreon. It is called a Revy Surrogacy Guide for Single Men. And he has his son, I think he plans on having more kids. And he goes [00:20:00] over the whole process of how to do it. And actually affordably. This is, we’ve, we’ve done a lot of looking into surrogacy.

We have friends who are trying to go through the surrogacy process. This is the best guide that I have seen because we’ve also, like, really, we, we’ve had friends who’ve struggled, desperately spent. Tens of thousands of dollars just in their search for a surrogate in the us Yeah. And Re’s just nailed it.

And now we’re sharing re’s guide with our friends personally. ‘cause we’re like, okay,

Malcolm Collins: I, I love it. Re’s guide. No, we need make this a thing in the community. Yeah. How

Simone Collins: would to have

Malcolm Collins: kids on your own

Simone Collins: Re’s guide? Re’s guide, so he, he, he writes at the very beginning, my kid is born, he’s super durable to, and fun to cuddle and hold.

I’m planning to have at least two more like, good for you, Revy. We are so

Malcolm Collins: good for you.

Simone Collins: Excited.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I think, you know, as a single dad, three kids, it, it’s gonna get harder, you know, if you’re a single dad. Yeah. But if you face it out, the kids can help and Yeah. They’ll appreciate helping. They’re, they’re growing up in like a total.

The thing is, is I think in previous generations. If you, as a single dad told your kid, look, I’m sorry, I just couldn’t find a [00:21:00] woman sane enough to be your mom. Mm-hmm. A lot of kids would be like, well, then you didn’t try hard enough. Or, you know, whatever. I think a lot of boys growing up in today’s environment, you know, when they get to middle school and they get to high school, they’re like, dad, I hear you.

Like,

Simone Collins: yeah. Well, and we have, we’ve, we’ve, yeah, we’ve plenty of, of parents, of, of teen kids, men and, and women, young men and women who are both like, I can’t be bothered to date. Like, it’s too much of a liability. So I appreciate that Revy starts off as guy just saying, listen, for single men that don’t want kids, they don’t want kids.

But for the ones that do want kids, there’s a way to do it without. The, any of the downsides of dating slash marriage and no risk of having kids taken away and or indoctrinated. So he goes through the process and he, he says, assuming you don’t want international surrogacy, here are the logistics.

$65,000 for the whole process as the 2025. That is a fraction of what we’ve seen through. Like, we’ll say mainstream leading American [00:22:00] surrogacy agencies, by the way, which are at least $120,000. So Rey’s already saving a lot of money for people. He says, add an extra 10,000 for travel expenses, some optional legal expenses, some optional medical expenses.

The whole process takes about a year. If anyone asks, you just took a one week vacation, followed by a one month vacation, a year later. That is incredible because he’s also apparently then doing this kind of on the down low. And I think that’s the smart way to go. As we can see from this Twitter storm with Ben, like Ben got de fenestrated Revy didn’t, you know, he’s just quietly building his family and maybe kind of what’s going on with male single fatherhood is it’s a bad two pay problem.

Like you see it when it goes terribly wrong. Same with the surrogacy thing. So what happened most recently? In terms of public discourse about surrogacy was wired, released to this article that just really threw surrogacy under the bus as, as a, a thing to do because it was about this really prominent venture [00:23:00] capitalist named Cindy by in Silicon Valley, who hired two surrogates to carry children for her.

And sadly, she lost one of one of her babies during the pregnancy. One of her surrogates experienced a stillbirth at 29 weeks, and Cindy just went after this woman publicly, online, legally, is just trying to destroy her. And this is a woman who chose to become a surrogate in the United States to pay off debts.

She was a vulnerable person. And part of the stress that she went through, like throughout this pregnancy was she changed jobs. You know, she was having trouble with medical insurance because, you know, the, the surrogacy wasn’t covering like her, her, I

Malcolm Collins: thought you said this is bs It was a bad instance.

Like, like

Simone Collins: something bad happened. That’s the bad to pay things. So when, when you hear about surrogacy and when you hear about per parents going through surrogacy, you hear these nightmares, you don’t hear about the rees. And that’s why it’s so crazy. He’s,

Malcolm Collins: My brother and his wife this is, you know, pretty public knowledge.

They sold and built one of the [00:24:00] largest IVF clinics in the United States. My little brother, mind you just to rub in the salt here I haven’t built a giant international company yet. Anyway, so they built this giant IVF business, and so they work a lot with surrogates and they know a lot of surrogates and they’re like, you know, we’ve got surrogates where it’s like their ninth time or whatever, right?

Like. This doesn’t have no,

Simone Collins: there’s a, there’s a limit to the number of times a, a

Malcolm Collins: circuit, I can’t remember how many times, but they’re like, it’s, it’s often repeat people. This is not a lot of people having negative experiences and the surrogates have a lot of control. You know, we’ve had friends who’ve tried to get this and, and no surrogates has chosen them, right?

Like, they’re just like, yeah, I’m not interested.

Simone Collins: No. Yeah, no. Yeah. Typ typically surrogates have a lot of choice. Surrogates are, are almost always mothers who typically are married. So they just, you know, they, they have very stable lives. It was unusual that the surrogate in the Cindy BI case who experienced a stillbirth and was attacked was a single mother.

Normally they’re married, they have kids, they’re super happy. It’s extra money for them, and they consider it a service that really, you know, helps other people. And that’s, yes. But anyway, let’s go back to re’s guide. So the [00:25:00] process and, basic thing that he goes through is if you decide to do surrogacy, you are referred to as an intended parent.

You pick an agency, this is a business that takes your money and then manages all the details of the surrogacy process. They have a medical clinic that they work with, a roster of egg donors and a roster of surrogates. So you pick your egg don. He says, at least for foreign countries, they’re pretty much guaranteed eights, nines and tens.

Mm-hmm. No matter the metric. I’m MinMax for IQ plus work ethic, so I found someone who was a 10 based on education and career and a seven based on looks. There are some fives in there, but there’s no reason to pick them, obviously. He says, including this comment, the census is super important to you.

White nationalist racists. Most large surrogacy agencies have ton of European donors since they’re typically located in large international cities. There’s lots of wealthy immigrants and foreign students. Also, white people tend to make up the majority of upper class and Latin American countries, so even if they’re nominally has.

Hispanic, they’re ethnically white. You can also pick [00:26:00] frozen eggs in the US or whatever country with frozen egg bans, banks and have them shipped in. I love the heat because you know, there there is that subset that’s like, wow,

Malcolm Collins: there is, you

Simone Collins: gotta,

Malcolm Collins: you gotta work it for everyone. Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s the next step.

Flying to deposit, to deposit. For YouTube, I’ll also genetic material. If anyone asks, you’re just taking a one week vacation. Then there’s egg extraction, IVF surrogate match and implantation takes about three months, followed by a nine month pregnancy. You don’t actually have to do anything at this stage.

And that’s key because a lot of people will get this impression that you’re supposed to like communicate with and micromanage your surrogate, which is what Cindy BI did, for example, and that’s probably the worst thing you can do. It’s a

Malcolm Collins: bad thing. Like

Simone Collins: don’t Yeah, don’t do that. Don’t, don’t do that. Do what Revy did.

If you want, you can pay a few thousand dollars extra to do a genetic test to make sure the kid doesn’t have any super messed up diseases. It also allows you to choose by

Malcolm Collins: the genetic testing now, which really changes a lot of the science around this. Mm-hmm. So in China for the first time. A child was going to have an extra pair of [00:27:00] chromosomes, so it was going to have Down Syndrome, and they were able to remove this extra pair of chromosomes.

And so far everything’s proceeding perfectly healthily. Yeah. And what this means, you know, as this technology proliferates, because you know you have access to it now if you have money.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: If you have a child with Down syndrome now that is a choice. That is a, a, a choice.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, but also if you’re doing IVF typically, you know, you can screen for that anyway.

Also, you could do polygenic

Malcolm Collins: risk for selection. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, even from a Catholic perspective. ‘cause the Catholic would say,

Simone Collins: oh yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I’m not going to screen. I don’t need to know this stuff because I’m gonna use every embryo I create Anyway.

Simone Collins: If the child, yeah. But here, if the child has down syndrome, you can un down syndrome them.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Yeah. The point here being is that you, and, and you’ll have to explain that to your kid. You’re gonna be like, I could have had you without Down syndrome, but, but my vanity, the, the, the aesthetics of your birth and doing it the quote unquote natural way.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I chose to have you in a way that will shorten your life.

Fan, you’re welcome. You’re welcome. And reduce your independence, you’re

Malcolm Collins: think changes a lot of the moral

Simone Collins: argument. It does. [00:28:00] People, how much we should do a separate episode on that. Let me finish this up though. Okay. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: okay.

Simone Collins: Okay. Thank you. Because we’re running outta time. So next up he obviously, so he’s saying you can do genetic testing.

We would encourage polygenic risk score selection because if you’re gonna, you know, in, for diamond, for dollar, especially if you’re saving this much money by doing it in a place like Mexico, like he did. I think this is, you know, a great way to go. Then he says, approaching nine months, you go on a one to two month vacation to the country be there for the birth of your child and handle the legal paperwork, getting the US citizenship for your child, finalizing the birth certificate and while raising your child than then you fly back to the US two weeks later.

Why it’s better to do this in a foreign country. In the US it’s $150,000 or more, which is totally what reflects what we’ve seen and what we know from Malcolm’s family connections in the industry. If you’re willing to do a little extra paperwork in traveling, you can save $75,000. That’s $75,000 you can leave to your child.

Surrogacy agencies in the US , just don’t have their acts together. Long wait lists for [00:29:00] surrogates. Surrogates aren’t pre-screened. This is actually a really important point is that Miles’, brother and sister pointed out that they found many surrogacy agencies ‘cause they ran, one did not rigorously background checks.

So women might attest to something that wasn’t true at all and no one checked. Like they’d be like, oh, I went to Harvard. No one checked Harvard for transcripts. They did, but, but they found that basically other people just didn’t. So you don’t really know what you’re getting in the US which is really scary.

Anyway he goes on mostly because of the supply demand balance in the US There are more intended parents, so you get the wait list and less screening for surrogates Overseas, there are more surrogates, so there’s no wait list and surrogate screening and requirements are way higher, so you’re getting better quality basically.

In lower cost. He continues, depending on the country, your kid gets an extra passport. They will get their passport from the foreign country through birth soil. Also the US passport through inheritance. It will also significantly reduce your timeline to citizenship if you want to pursue [00:30:00] it, basically reverse anchor baby.

That’s really cool and I’d never thought about that. Isn’t that interesting?

Malcolm Collins: Yes,

Simone Collins: he says Better healthcare. Most non-Western countries have a parallel public healthcare and private healthcare system. The public system is obviously bad. The private healthcare system is as good or better than the US system and even uninsured costs or fraction of the US insured copay.

And that was a key plot point of the whole Cindy by debacle with her surrogacy that the Wired covered is that. The health insurance that the circuit had fell through, and then there was this concern about who’s gonna pay for healthcare bills now that like she has to switch and oh my gosh, what’s gonna happen?

And she wasn’t getting really good healthcare and all these things in, in a country like Mexico, you can just afford it. Like, it’s fine, it’s not a problem.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: He goes on. If you’re capable of working remotely or you have parental leave, I would recommend staying in the foreign country longer to take advantage of cheap but high quality private healthcare and childcare [00:31:00] maybe even indefinitely, at least for the first few months.

It’s not like you’re gonna have time to work anyway. Now. I mean, I would beg to differ. We work through all of our newborn phases, but also we’re on number five for this specific country. At the moment of writing this, it’s Columbia, Mexico, or Argentina. Previously it was Ukraine. India and Thailand expect the country to change depending on the political situation of the world.

When one country bans it, another country legalizes it, but guaranteed at least one country will allow it. Just to find that one country. Re’s done his research. I I just really love this guide. Legal safety worries about the egg donor or surrogate claiming child support. All the egg donor knows is that they donated eggs.

They, they’re not told anything about you. They will not even know the child exists, as in they’re not told their eggs resulted in children. As for the surrogate, they will know that the child is born. Obviously, you’re allowed to talk with them. For whatever, but you don’t have to. If you want, you can cut the surrogate off completely after the child is born.

You also don’t have the to [00:32:00] reveal anything about yourself. All communication is facilitated by the agency to ensure that neither of you does anything stupid. If she tries to threaten you, the agency will just tell her, yeah, we’re not gonna pass on your threat. Surrogate mother’s name will not be on the birth certificate.

The result is the birth certificate with only one name, yours. The D-N-N-T-S test is taken after the birth surrogate is required to already have at least one child as well as a husband, and that’s obviously not the case in the us. Again, much better to do it in the Mex. In Mexico we did it, at least for now.

Malcolm Collins: No, I think it’s, by the way, I think it’s technically illegal to do it in Mexico.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: you’re an American citizen. Mm. That’s why you have to hide a lot of this.

Simone Collins: I don’t, I don’t know because he worked with an agency, so I don’t think so. Okay. And he can suggest agencies, people DM us if you want his email.

Also his email’s in the guide. Currently it’s a Google doc, so he might change it if he gets flooded, but you can DM us partly to make sure she has a track record of giving birth successfully, partly because she loves the child she already has. So it reduces the probability she’ll develop an attachment to the child.

Note that this is not a requirement for [00:33:00] surrogates in the US as a result. Of the supply demand balance. Again, US risky, don’t do sur in the us You’re right. Yeah. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: it’s not illegal. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay. There you go. So it’s fine. In Mexico, surrogates go through a ton of health screening once when being accepted as a surrogate and another after matching note that surrogate in the us, surrogates in the US are only screened once they are matched as a result of the supply demand imbalance.

Again, I’m like, oh my gosh. Screw, screw surrogacy in the us. Oh, screw it. Yeah. And then he, he has additional tips on like, well, should do, have a kid through surrogacy. Well, so, so what, how much does it cost total to do it in Mexico? So he, he actually, yeah, he, he has a cost breakdown. My own opinion is that the cost of surrogacy is very little.

Obviously, $70,000 is a lot of money by itself. That was what he said. Basically, legal fees was $10,000, and then the surrogacy itself and, and egg donation, everything, everything is $60,000. Isn’t that incredible? Yeah. But he, $60,000. For versus 150 in the us. I’m just like so shocked. Yeah, because I was like, that’s what it is in the us.

Direct cost [00:34:00] of raising a child. $300,000. Although obviously there are minimalist methods. Colleges around $200,000 though obviously there are alternatives. Reduction in income from spending time at home or public school. $200,000 reduction in income from spending time at home Homeschool. A million dollars, assuming homeschool and saving for college, the total cost is $1.5 million.

So $75,000 is really basically nothing. He’s basically saying like surrogacy versus, you know, like, I don’t know, getting a baby mama or something. But I mean, that also has its own risks and expenses as any Meg child will tell you. So, I mean, as Ravi points out, surrogacy is a really smart way to go, especially if you’re doing it in a place right now like Mexico.

And he also points out that like if you’re rich, basically, like there’s no reason not to do this. Like if, if you care even marginally about kids.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: And he has addit. It’s, there’s a ton more in this guide. He’s. Sort of thoughts on raising kids, how to decide if you want kids, you know, sort of thought experiments, things to [00:35:00] consider.

You know, he, he even has a section on pragmatic philosophy, ethics and public perception. It’s, it’s, it’s a great guide. So again, check it out in the, in the links. But yeah, I mean, in general, here’s where I stand. Like it’s very clear from this, this Twitter storm that. Men going their own way and having kids are gonna be demonized, but also men going their own way who wanna have kids who are conscientious enough to go through this process and raise kids on their own are gonna do a bang up job on average.

Way better I think, than probably, you know, a lot of single women. ‘cause I think a lot of single women really take this for granted and like ex expect, they expect kind of the state and their family and their friends to kind of come in and just swoop in and save things. Whereas men, no one’s gonna help them.

And so they are forced to be more conscientious and we’re, we’re good parents. I think there’s, they’re better forcing functions I think with equally competent people. Like if, if I were me, Simone, the female, raising a, a single child, I think I’d be a worse parent than if I were [00:36:00] me, Simon, the man raising a single child, like same me, just like different gender.

So, just, just do it. Just do it. Read the guide. Yeah. Don’t, don’t tweet about it if you don’t wanna get hate. ‘cause poor Ben, man. I don’t, I mean, I poor being bad.

Malcolm Collins: They just wanna have kids, you know. Well, the thing that I love, and this become popular online these days for when, like attractive girls are streaming and stuff.

Mm-hmm. They, people post a picture of the, the rabbit from alice in

Simone Collins: Wonderland,

Malcolm Collins: Alice in Wonderland, pointing to a clock. Oh God. And then they’ve also started putting a picture of Nick Fuentes pointing to a giant clock to be like, your time’s running out the world runs around fertility. Now people, people understand,

Simone Collins: oh my God, you’re holding

Malcolm Collins: your little parasite.

You see our parasites come out looking like us. It’s so weird.

Simone Collins: Yeah, one of my gay college friends recently had a newborn just around the time that like one month before Tex was born, Tex here. And it’s so fun to see his posts. Like I, I, I can’t tell if he has a partner or if he’s being a single.

I think he’s being a single dad [00:37:00] actually. And it’s just really fun. Like I, I’m realizing that that single dads who have their kids through surrogacy. They’re doing a bang up job. Their kids are adorable and they’re happy, and I, I kind of wonder if we’re seeing a silent revolution of single men, gay or otherwise, having kids.

Who are just gonna like, take over the world. Like this is the new, this is Patriarchy 2.0,

Malcolm Collins: patriarch.

Simone Collins: It’s big top patriarchy. They’re gonna build the future.

Malcolm Collins: My parents got divorced when I was young. I lived sometimes with my dad, sometimes with my mom. I’d always like living with a single dad is actually pretty effing dope.

That sounds ‘cause they cry parent very differently than single moms do. Yeah. They actually don’t really care what you do that much. They’re just like, yeah, do whatever you want to do. And as a kid. That’s really fun.

Simone Collins: That’s what you want. Also, like that’s, that’s where we, I think, well also, as is pointed out in the data men parent more today than they ever have before.

Like I think society has pushed everyone toward [00:38:00] high touch helicopter parenting. So now probably the kind of parenting that you’re getting from a man or single dad, whatever, married or otherwise is. More akin to what you would get from a full-time housewife in the fifties, which is the perfect balance.

You, they, they nurture more than they ever have before just because of high societal standards.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But they are, by the nature of their gender, on average, more likely to be more chill, which is desperately needed. So yeah, I agree with you. I mean, like if I were born to a single parent now and I had to choose, like Mgtow dad versus wake ow mom. I would probably choose mgtow dad. Yeah. So not that we, we know, we know we town moms who are absolutely crushing it as well, but like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Well, you are awesome. I love you Simone for dinner tonight. Do you have more of the sauce that we need to cook down for

Simone Collins: no

Malcolm Collins: Mongolian beef?

Simone Collins: So, would you like some Bullock? Would you like some I [00:39:00]

Malcolm Collins: would love

Simone Collins: some beef, chicken, some What

Malcolm Collins: If that’s, if is beef Flo Maine too hard for you to make tonight?

Simone Collins: I can make you beef lomain. With

Malcolm Collins: extra chives ‘cause we’ve got so many extra.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. We gotta use those chives. Okay. I’ll make you beef flamin.

I just have to remember to soak the noodles first. It’s so weird to soak the noodles in cold water for 10 minutes and then boil them. Don’t

Malcolm Collins: overuse soy sauce.

Simone Collins: I won’t. I’m gonna, I’m just gonna, likem gonna have soy sauce and I’m gonna double oyster sauce. Just,

Malcolm Collins: No. What I would do is have soy sauce and then add in hoisin sauce because the oyster sauce might end up tasting too fishy and

Simone Collins: hoisin sauce.

Okay. So then instead of, okay. Yeah. Instead of doubling oyster sauce, I’ll, I’ll do oyster sauce and then the same amount of hoisin.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: How about that? Okay. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I’ll

Simone Collins: f**k

Malcolm Collins: maybe, maybe two thirds or half the amount of poison. ‘cause hoisin has a stronger taste and so oyster sauce.

Simone Collins: Okay, then Okay. Yeah, half.

Malcolm Collins: Thank you.

Simone Collins: I

Malcolm Collins: love you. Love you. Good episode.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Fascinating stuff. Also, re’s guide is just,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I really appreciate that somebody did this [00:40:00]

Simone Collins: and I’m really happy for him. Well,

Malcolm Collins: his kid’s gonna appreciate it, I’ll tell you that.

Simone Collins: Well, and, but, and also the additional kids he’s gonna have, hopefully, God willing, I really hope he, he, he’s got, I mean, but he seems to really act together.

So I’ll tell you

Malcolm Collins: guys a guy, babies, I hate. Well, he

Simone Collins: supposed to be nailing it. You’re not a

Malcolm Collins: does, but I’m telling you what, when your kids get a little bit older, like

Simone Collins: it

Malcolm Collins: gets much

Simone Collins: better.

Malcolm Collins: You’re fantastic because then you’re not worried about them dying anymore, like year two or three. They have like personalities and stuff, but then you’re like, oh my God, it, I made a human.

Like I love babies. The heck,

Simone Collins: I love babies. Anyway, okay, gotta run. Love you.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so here’s what I wanted to ask you. Okay. And sort of the, the pre part of this episode, okay?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Kid names that we’re thinking about for our next kid, so our fans can give us some advice. ‘cause we’re actually struggling with this one. And maybe you guys will be like, oh, this is Ed. Here’s the right name.

Okay,

Simone Collins: we were gonna do Rex Dyson. But it turns out that that’s way too basic.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you’re afraid because if you met another kid in our [00:41:00] generation called Rex, I mean like the young person,

Simone Collins: well there there’s also a kid named Tex at at Octavian school, but I don’t really care as much ‘cause it, it’s a cool name.

Whereas Rex, as someone pointed out to us, sounds like a millennial trendy name, whereas text is more timeless. And also text is is kind of a family name. So there, there are lots of reasons why we like text for reasons that are timeless and it’s not seen as a trendy millennial name Rex is. So we just had to drop it

Malcolm Collins: right next.

Tus. I love cus I love the name Tus. Tus is a famous Roman who wrote sort of the western version of Zus Art of War is where our word tactics comes from. And we could do like Tus Dyson we’re, we’re quite like Dyson as a middle name. But there were some other op options I had for middle names.

I don’t remember. For tus, what, do you remember what they were?

Simone Collins: No, I don’t. But other names that we have and, and like Kaiser, Kaiser, Bismarck, Hadian you always, you, you recommended igneous [00:42:00] many times. But I don’t quite like it. We’re saving Artis for a girl.

Malcolm Collins: You really like Artis for a girl.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: art Janus was the first thing we wanted for a kid, but I moved away from it because I don’t know. You guys can tell us if you think Art Janus is a bad name.

Simone Collins: It was the, the former

Malcolm Collins: capitalist, the girl that we’re having, and I’m very convinced on this. Crypta

Simone Collins: Crypta,

Malcolm Collins: no, the Spartan practice of going out and having to live on your own.

Simone Collins: And kill some hets, you know, whatever.

Malcolm Collins: Kill or survive. Yeah. Hey, that’s a, that’s a bad a name for a girl.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Crypta is a pretty good name for a girl.

Malcolm Collins: That’s, that’s Adam’s family s**t right there. Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: That is, yeah. Crypta is exactly what Wednesday, little Wednesday’s little sister would be named.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Mm-hmm. And then yeah. Is there, are there any other names that you’re like really liking right now?

Simone Collins: No, I’m stuck. I don’t know what we’ll name our next son.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, well you guys can let us know [00:43:00] among these and we might share some others with you because I’ll review the next time we ask you.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All right, let’s go.

Simone Collins: All right, here we go. Guess I have to be, I need at least one hand for my notes. Oh. Well.

Speaker: What the heck’s happening over here, guys? You The one done I can see. Do you not point those at me? Yeah, I’m not going, I’m not gonna sue you. Don’t worry. Do not point it at me. I didn’t say don’t sue it. I said don’t point it. Oh, I’m sorry.

And are you guys gonna take over the world?

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the recent Philosophy Tube video on demographic collapse and falling fertility rates. They critically analyze the arguments presented, discuss the broader implications for society, and explore the political, economic, and cultural factors influencing birth rates across the world.

The conversation covers:

* The differences in fertility rates between conservatives and progressives, and how these trends are accelerating.

* A critique of Philosophy Tube’s approach, including the use of dramatization and political statements.

* The impact of demographic changes on economies, with a focus on Japan and other developed countries.

* The role of nationalism, technological advancement, and cultural attitudes in shaping population trends.

* Misconceptions about the causes of declining birth rates, including the roles of women in the workforce and economic factors.

* The influence of ideology, media, and policy on public perceptions of demographic issues.

* A discussion of the “mind virus” concept and how cultural and biological factors may interact in shaping societal trends.

Malcolm and Simone also reflect on their own approach to research, fact-checking, and the importance of honest debate. The episode is a mix of critical analysis, personal anecdotes, and thought-provoking commentary on one of the most pressing issues facing modern societies.

If you enjoy in-depth discussions on culture, politics, and demographics, make sure to subscribe and join the conversation in the comments!

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. We are gonna talk about a number of things on this podcast. One of the first we’re gonna go into is going to be Philosophy Tube. Oh, the famous trans YouTuber did a big piece on why falling fertility rates aren’t actually an issue at all, and watching her. Felt like being spoken down to by an hour from somebody from the Capitol in the Hunger Games.

But I am in one of the districts

Now before we begin, we have a very special film brought to you all the way from the capitol.

Speaker 4: Fewer babies, aging populations. The strain on the economy as humankind collides with nature, it’s all overblown. A moral panic that was had by previous generations whose mistakes we are repeating.

Malcolm Collins: The thing is also like. In America if you are a teenager and you have Republican parents, and keep in mind like teenagers are not even that Republican, you have an 81% chance of being Republican.

[00:01:00] Yeah. If you have democratic parents, it’s a 89% chance of being democratic. Mm-hmm. Well, what this means unfortunately for her is she is preaching to her audience to basically sterilize a community that it only benefits us that is being sterilized.

But another trend we’re going to talk about is this difference in, in conservative and progressive fertility rates is actually increasing and the speed at which it’s increasing is speeding up.

Oh, really? People like her. But as a side note here, despite me appreciating what she did.

Like Simone, you tried to watch it too, right? Like it was bad.

Speaker 3: What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point. In your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought? Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May [00:02:00] God have mercy on your soul.

Simone Collins: watched the whole thing from start to finish and could not, I must had, before I met you, I would’ve assumed that it was because I was too dumb and I couldn’t follow the argument.

Having now met you and, and gained a little bit more self-respect, I think a lot of it was broadly incoherent. It, it ends with her, a trans woman taking a pregnancy test. I mean, I think it’s all dramatization obviously, but like. I mean, I, I know it’s some kind of in joke too, or I, not in joke, but whatever.

Malcolm Collins: Or it might be some sort of like sexualized role play. As we mentioned, one of the very common things for trans people is to violate other people’s consent and bring them into their fetishes.

Simone Collins: Well, no, no. At the, at the end of it, no, it’s more like a political statement.

‘cause at the end of it, she fakes some kind of emotional distress and then says she needs a tea break. But then the camera follows her walking nervously toward a bathroom and then goes into the bathroom on which [00:03:00] for the sake of filming this video and dramatization, they put a whole lot of, like, na, females only, like women only bathroom non, no trans bathroom goes into the bathroom, takes a pregnancy test, comes out.

It’s a positive pregnancy test. Next episode has to discuss whether it’s worth it to bring a life into this horrible world in the first place. You know, it’s all a plot device, but I’m also just like not getting the.

Malcolm Collins: She wants to have a trans abortion. That’s fantastic.

You mean, I’ll never know what it feels like to have a baby growing inside me and then scramble its brains and vacuum it out?

Malcolm Collins: That’s literally what she said.

Fetus.

Simone Collins: Kill that fetus. Get that be

Malcolm Collins: the other. Get that fetus. Kill that fetus.

Get that fetus, kill that fetus. Rack, rack, you good rack.

Malcolm Collins: The other thing that you were telling me, which I thought was wild here, but it’s, it’s, it’s the, you said that she dressed in drag dressing like a, a cis male and you were like, she was way more attractive and good looking.

Speaker 11: I’m a traveling petrol salesman, I meet all sorts of people and do you know the [00:04:00] healthiest and happiest are always the ones with children, and I remember.

When my daughter was born, it was the happiest day of my life. It’s hard being a single father, especially when you’re on the road all the time,

Speaker 10: You are the sort of person who’s too intelligent to be taken in by the lying press, I mean, why do you suppose, are they praising this poor, confused individual?

Now I know we’re not supposed to say that. It’s not kind, is it? Not orthodox, but it’s worth asking the question.

Simone Collins: She looked great. He looked well. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting. It is interesting. Yeah. No,

Malcolm Collins: but the reason why I always mention the trans people often looking like they’re from the capital and the Hunger Games

Speaker: Eyes bright. Chins up, smiles on.

Malcolm Collins: Is because it, I think it shows the fundamental truth of the left [00:05:00] is that they say they’re, that they’re the party of the working class, and yet they platform these people who dress and act in a way that is clearly designed to specifically insult the, the working class, right?

Speaker 11: I’m a traveling petrol salesman,

Malcolm Collins: To, to show a level of purposeless luxury that you would only engage in. If your goal was for everyone around you to know, I am not like you. I am different than you. I am of a separate class than you, that deserves different rights and different resources and different statuses in society.

Mm-hmm. So the first thing we’re gonna go over here. Is graphs.

And the first graph here is one from the Financial Times and for the love of God, I cannot find what article this comes from because the one that I think it would come from, it doesn’t seem to come from, but his birth rates are falling more steeply among progressives and conservatives.

And what you’ll note about these graphs is that the numbers are really high. I don’t know why the numbers seem high on, on both. Like they would argue that the conservative fertility rate right now in the United [00:06:00] States is. 2.4 and that the progressive fertility rate is 1.8 and there is no way that that’s the case.

Do they,

Simone Collins: hold on, lemme look at this graph because I, I don’t see,

Malcolm Collins: I think it’s that, it’s because it’s calculated for adult 35 plus. It may be looking at like, older individuals. Oh. Or something like that. I’m, I’m not sure exactly. But the point being is that what you see is if we project these onto realistic fertility rates, IE progressives, they’re probably like 1.3, 1.2 conservatives probably at like 1.8.

We’re getting closer to conservatives just having doubled the fertility rate of progressives. And one of our fans did a study on this, and this isn’t just in the us they also show that this is happening on a, on a worldwide level here. Is that and and what’s cool is conservative fertility rates are, are sort of, they’re, they go down a bit, but they’re pretty close to stable.

Simone Collins: Nice.

Malcolm Collins: If you, if you look sort of post 2000, right? Well,

Simone Collins: it’s what you would expect.

Malcolm Collins: And, and again, I point out the way a person votes, even if we drop all the genetic stuff, [00:07:00] which is really big, is very similar to their parents. And we’re already seeing, and I’ll be going over a study that showed that, that they we’re already seeing this in Europe was with this leading to a more conservative voting pattern. And this was one of the last things, or that Charlie Kirk tweeted was actually this graph, the one that I just showed. So like he was aware and he was like, yeah, having kids as like a political duty.

Right. And I thought that that was really interesting as well. Well, also he, he said it in like a really nice and uplifting way and I, I probably just said it in a non nice enough uplifting way, but it was, it was, this is going around, right? Like conservatives are aware of this and progressives are beginning to, like, some of them are trying to shout at other progressives.

Hey guys, you need to take this seriously.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And here we are, which is so fun about this is I know that I can go to progressives and I know I can preach to progressives and it just won’t matter because they so dehumanize, you know, the, the the other side. And here I’ll play that string that I did from Tucker and Dale verse the four is of Evil.

Oh, good, look, your friends are here! Hey!

You’re supposed to [00:08:00] want to have children. And this is your ultimate goal in life. It is a very archaic idea and old idea and representation of a woman.

So you you’re getting people to sign a petition.

pledge, basically saying that they will not have Children until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.

Is that your blood? What, no. No, it’s college kid blood. And how many people have signed on so far. 1, 381 as of right now. I know what this is. This is a suicide pact. Oh my god, that makes so much sense. , we have got to hide all of the sharp objects!

if only I was born with a vagina. To solve that problem. Amen, sister.

Holy mother of God! Some kid, he just hucked himself right into the wood chipper! What? Head first, right into the wood chipper! It looked like it might have been one of the college kids..

Malcolm Collins: [00:09:00] Because I, I really do think that it’s a good depiction of how, like that movie itself of how sea conservatives in this country. Yeah. And even when we’re trying to help them. But, . First we’re going to go over the study. So this is a study called Demography Leads to more conservative European societies published in peer-reviewed journals.

From the abstract it says, we have found that in most of the countries analyze right wing conservative individuals have on average more children and grandchildren than leftwing liberal individuals. We also found that the proportion of Rightwing individuals increases from generation to generation.

Now he then goes on to like, it’s well known that this stuff is her. It’s well known that people vote like their parents. And we’re seeing a change. I don’t really need to go over that because you guys can probably guess that this is something that I was surprised by and I want to dig deeper into, but it’s for another episode.

Mm-hmm. So here’s a line from it that my shaky Israel differs from all other countries, and that there is a pronounced people who may not be in the loop. Israel is the only developed country, technologically productive [00:10:00] country, was a really high fertility rate. In that there is a pronounced reproductive advantage for left-wing individuals.

Simone Collins: Huh

Malcolm Collins: And then they go over to say the average number of grandchildren is very high, more than 10 grandchildren for left-wing individuals, and more than six for right wing individuals.

Simone Collins: Interesting. Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Are there a lot of our Jewish fans can tell us who live in world. ‘cause you got like a lot of Israeli fans.

Are there a lot of like, variety, like ultra religiously conservative, but progressive individuals in, in, in Israel.

I mean, we do know that this happens among Hawaii factions like Mond was supported whose like specifically anti-Zionist supported the by the Hawaii Jews in New York, right? Like the, the Hasidic Jews in New York.

So maybe that’s what we’re seeing there and that’s just messing with the data. Now there were the Financial Times piece by a guy begging people like philosophy tube lady. Why progressives should care about [00:11:00] falling birth rates. By the way, if any of our fans wanna get mad at us correctly gendering this individual.

Look, it’s their culture. I do not think that this is something that should be forced on people. But me, I’m not gonna cause offense to somebody just for the sake of causing offense. And that, I mean, I just don’t think it’s nice to be mean for the sake of be, be mean for their ideas, be mean by saying things like, I think it’s, it’s really vile that they would dress or act in a way that is sexualized and promote, like the idea of this being in women’s bathrooms, right?

Recently there was this, this clip that went viral of a black woman who had a guy she was naked in a woman’s bathroom at a gym, sit down next to her. One of these people had made no, no effort to transition at all, who apparently had broken his wife’s jaw in, in, it came out from a divorce, like a violent guy who was

.

Pretending to be trans. Right?

Speaker 5: Today, I was naked in the locker room. I turned around and there’s a man there and [00:12:00] boy like boy, clothes, lip gloss, standing there looking at me. I’m butt naked. So the first thing I think is maybe there’s a work doing in here. Maybe I miss the sign. I say the word sir, to say, sir, what are you doing in here?

He goes, don’t f*****g talk to me. I’m a woman. I have a right to be in here. Immediately I’m f*****g pissed because I’m butt, butt naked. I feel violated. I feel like weird.

Malcolm Collins: And that this person is laying cover for people like that in their videos, and they should be ashamed and embarrassed. The, the, but they, they won’t be and they aren’t. Or maybe they are. And, and a lot of this is coming from that they should be ashamed and embarrassed that they are a, a human Darwin award, right?

You know, like they have to make all of these ridiculous arguments because they made bad life decisions and now those bad life decisions are coming to haunt them likely. But anyway, to continue here like those bad life decisions prevent them from ever acting in a way that, you know, now that we’re seeing a moral mandate to reproduce among different populations, they can’t participate in that.

And so they need to double down. But anyway, there was an article in the Financial Times called Why [00:13:00] Progressives Should Care About Falling Fertility Rates. So I’m just gonna take a few. Sections from this. ‘cause I thought it was pretty on QQ here. Okay, but take a closer look at the evidence and it’s less clear that the logic holds.

In fact, it’s possible that seating the floor to the right on this issue, progressives may themselves be ushering in a more conservative, less green future. Let’s start with the environmentalist argument that following birth rates are good for the planet. This may appear obviously true, but the reality is less clear.

Total emission volumes are a function of two things, the number of people emitting, and how much each person emitts. The former may be more palpable, but the latter has vastly larger impact. Technological progress in green policies have dramatically shrunk the average Westerners carbon footprint over recent decades, meaning countries such as Britain, France, and the US have steeply reduced their overall emissions even as populations have climbed in Japan.

However, the retreat from clean nuclear energy after the f Yuma disaster saw emissions rise. Even as birth rates were getting lower. And so I wanna put a [00:14:00] graph on screen here and you can, you can see this,

even though the population is increasing in France and Germany and the UK during a period where it was increasing carbon emissions is dramatically reducing.

Whereas in Japan, where the population is going down, carbon emissions is going up. Carbon emissions is first and foremost about the productivity of a nation, technological productivity of a nation. It is not just that innovation swamps, demographics. The two are linked countries with older populations are generally less innovative and more conservative, both of which can slow down the energy transition and broader green inning of their economies and societies.

But not only that, they will also be more conservative in the future because conservatives have conservative children. A striking public study published this year by a group of US researchers comes to a similar conclusion. At best following birth rates will have a negligible impact on global temperatures and.

Come far too late to affect climate goals. At worse, the effect is slow progress, putting the planet on a dirtier warmer pass. This brings me to the second part of the progressive population paradox. [00:15:00] Recent studies find that the, and then that was a study we just went over, that the less lack of concern over falling birth rates is likely pushing societies in a more conservative direction.

Expanding previous analysis of the interplay between political ideology and family formation. I find the assumption that birth rates are falling across societies in general is not really true from the US and Europe and beyond. People who identify as conservatives are having almost as many children as they did decades ago.

The decline is overwhelmingly among the progressive left. In effect nudging each successive generation’s politics further and further to the right than it otherwise would’ve been. This may ultimately mean more curtailing of individual freedoms, not less. And I have here a link, like even the OCD now is issuing guidelines about what countries should do to deal with falling fertility rates.

So even like the OCD, the OECD is like, oh yeah, this is happening, and you need to get more representative forms of democracy and stuff like that. Like nothing to actually address the issue.

Simone Collins: That’s, so they’re, [00:16:00] they’re, they’re pretending to prepare people for, for nations, for demographic collapse when really they’re, they’re not addressing dependency ratio cascades at all.

They’re just talking about.

Malcolm Collins: No, they’re just, they’re just like, you’re gonna have to a, adjust your rates on this stuff. We might do a separate episode on the OECD.

Simone Collins: Okay. So they’re somewhat, I mean, ‘cause that is,

Malcolm Collins: our fans can let us know. Do you actually want us to do a deep dive on OECD policy on terms of fertility rates as it works cross country to understand like just how unprepared these people are?

Simone Collins: Could be good.

Malcolm Collins: But what I’m pointing out here more largely is, there are a few progressives who realize this, but whenever they point this out at the beginning of philosophy to video, she actually didn’t cover this guy. She covered that weird woman who is like. Fertility rates are an issue. And the, the real problem is that we’re not aborting enough black children.

Like, you know, she frames it in terms of black people’s access to reproductive rights as she calls it. Like reproductive,

Simone Collins: reproductive justice. Reproductive justice.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I was like, okay, buddy. [00:17:00] But, but philosophy tube comes right out the gate attacking a bunch of progressives who wanna care about this issue.

And so you can see as I have predicted, you cannot be centrist on this issue. You cannot be leftist on this issue. The top leftist voices will come at you gunning and promote our larger value system in the process by eradicating leftists from the globe. But let’s go into her actual arguments, ‘cause I actually found them so stupid.

It was almost fascinating. I don’t know if you felt that way when you were getting through them. But the first here argument that she made. Is the moral panic is historically recurring and overblown, and she talks about how in the 1920s and the 1940s we can find evidence of people panicking about this.

Well, if you’re not completely retarded and you had any historical understanding of fertility rates, you would be aware that in the 1920s and the 1940s, a number of European countries fell below repopulation rate.

They were freaking out for good reason Then. [00:18:00] Population rates begin to spike. Why did population rates begin to spike?

You can go see, we have an episode on this we have a couple episodes on this, but the, the, by far, the biggest reason is a number of medical technologies came into existence that changed it from about half of babies died before their first year of life to about no babies died in their first year of life.

And surprise, surprise, the number of surviving babies about doubled. It wasn’t that people were getting pregnant a lot more over most of the world now, there were a few countries that did have a fertility spike. We have a video where we go over this for example, you don’t see it in communist Russia.

You don’t, but you do see it in communist China. You don’t see it in Eastern Berlin or eastern Austria. One, our fans got this wrong. They thought that Austria wasn’t split. It was split. But you did see it in Western Austria and Western you did see it across many of the allied countries, but not across the cowardly countries that slipped out of the war like Ireland and Spain.

You know, so like what, what, what caused this and a lot of it we argue is futurism and [00:19:00] nationalism, right? If you look at what people were consuming in the 1960s, in the 1950s in terms of pop culture it was a lot of sci-fi stuff. A lot of like pop sci-fi that was like the main form of, of narrative that people loved back then, and a lot of actualist stuff.

Look at the American Western craze during that period. Cowboys and Indians. As you pointed out, Simone, this is the reason why in old movies you see a lot of kids in raccoon hats. Why?

Simone Collins: No, no, no. Daniel Boone was like the, the big star of the United States. Crockett before, sorry, Davy Crockett before Elvis, and I learned this weekend wouldn’t shut up about it around Malcolm, that so many kids wanted to buy a Davy Crockett style raccoon hat.

And at the time they actually made them out of real raccoon pelt that they ran out of raccoon pelts to give kids raccoon hats in the United States for a while. Amazing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, so, it was a real issue during that period. It was a real issue that was resolved by more nationalism. [00:20:00] I presume Philosophy Tube doesn’t want that and a technological advancement No, because

Simone Collins: what do they call nationalism?

They call it fascism, right?

Malcolm Collins: A technological advancement. You see our video on why nationalism is awesome. A techno, you, you should have pride in your nation and who you are, right? Yeah. Like what’s wrong with these people? If I went to a Mexican and it was like, how dare you have pride in your Mexican identity?

Like, what a horrible thing to do. And you’re like, well, that’s okay because Mexicans aren’t white. And I’d be like, actually that’s a super racist thing to say. ‘cause there’s a lot of white Mexicans.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Mexican is not an ethnicity. It is. Mexico is just like the United States. It’s a country with a bunch of immigrants,

Simone Collins: nationalities.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Whatcha even talking about Anyway but what I’m pointing out here is it would, what it really that they just wanna shame certain groups and not other groups, but, but, but, most of the way that Europe got out of this in the past was by the technological advancements that shut down the number of infants that were dying.

And that is not a trick that we can pull again.

Simone Collins: And I’m glad they did it. I’m really, really glad they did. But yes, that’s not, it’s a solution to a very different problem.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Because if, [00:21:00] if we cut the number of infant deaths by like 90% today, it would like sur affect the amount of surviving infants by like one or 2% because so few infants die.

So it’s just not relevant. Okay. Next she argues demographic decline is not necessarily economically harmful. And then she goes on to saying declining populations like Japan’s don’t automatically lead to economic decline. She says, for example, Japan’s population has been shrinking for years, yet it’s the third largest economy.

And so a GDP spike after the population decline began and I’d be like. Well, a what, like what pills are you taking here? Yes, Japan did have a spike, but broadly speaking, Japan has undergone one of the biggest periods of economic decline in stagnation that any developed country has in human history that is correlated with its fertility, stagnation, and [00:22:00] collapse.

Japan is the smoking gun of the horror that the rest of us may have to live with. Do you know what working life is like in Japan these days? Do you have any idea the existential horror of the education system in Japan to get you

Simone Collins: Well, and they’ve been able to, like through their Omic solution, I think we filmed an episode on this that you haven’t run yet on how they addressed their issue of out of control interest rates and everything, and, and.

The, the only reason why they’ve been able to avoid insanely bad economic stagnation is ‘cause they have a really high savings rate and they’re just extremely disciplined. Other countries won’t even be able to pull off the way Japan has beening along. It’s not just

Malcolm Collins: that there’s very little foreign debt in Japan.

So a lot of people know that Japan did debt Jubilee. What? They don’t,

Simone Collins: no. Not a gen. They, they basically just bought their own debt and started paying

Malcolm Collins: themselves. They basically just bought their own debt because they own their own debt and so they were able to do that. Yeah. Other countries can’t pull that stupid little trick.

And the vast majority of [00:23:00] countries declining populations, mean declining economies. How a person, so could be so absolutely brain dead to one, not look into the specific case of Japan, their case study, which actually sort of proves a point, but then two, not be able to make the simple understanding that if you have.

Fewer people paying taxes. And she could be like, well, what if, what if as fertility rates go down we become a more prosperous country. Right? Like, I’d be like, yeah, that would be good if the probability of like the amount that somebody pays in taxes is highly correlated with the amount that their parents pay in taxes because it’s highly correlated with the amount that they make amount.

And nothing like literally nothing is more correlary with the amount that you make as an adult with the amount that your parents made as an adult. And the amount that you make is inversely correlated, at least in the United States with the amount of kids that you have. Okay. You crazy, crazy b*****d.[00:24:00]

Like, it is. All the evidence seems to indicate that not only will the economic productivity within most of the developed world decline, but it will decline even faster than the population rate because the population rate is crashing fastest within the economically productive sub factions of the population.

Oh my God. Okay. Next. Sorry. Any thoughts you have here, Simone, by the way,

Simone Collins: I mean, I would also point out though that, I mean, one of the reasons why the boomer generation was so prosperous was because the economy was growing so much when we don’t have that economic growth anymore.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Intergenerational wealth is, is gonna be, I mean, we’re already seeing it now, right. With, with generations raised by boomers knowing that they’re never gonna see the level of prosperity or financial security that their boomer parents had, because the economy is in a very different position.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All right.

So. And to continue here, the old age dependency ratio is an incomplete metric. Basically focusing [00:25:00] on the old age dependency ratio to predict collapse is misleading because this ratio ignores both like children who are unproductive, the disabled, the unemployed, and non-working groups. This, to me, reminds me of when fat people are like BMI is bad.

Don’t you know that like this bodybuilder would look obese by A BMI scale. And I’m like. Yeah, but everybody knows that the bodybuilder is covered in muscle. Like

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Do you think that the people complaining about demographically led popul, like, like collapses in economic structures are not aware that like the children also are a drain on the tax system and that the poor are also a drain on the tax system?

I have pointed out you could solve the negatives from fertility collapse simply by, for example, sterilizing everybody who, who makes a poverty level wage just because of the correlation of their children with their parents. And if you dramatically decrease the number of people who required welfare, who could redirect [00:26:00] that money to the number of people who are old now, that is a very immoral solution.

I wouldn’t promote it, but that appears to be what she’s promoting here, saying that there are other ways to fix this. People over 65, she says, often contribute productively through caregiving, volunteering, and community involvement. I just disagree. This is a trend that’s been going down dramatically.

This used to be true that old people contributed to their local economies, local, they helped with local childcare, they helped with, but if you look at any current statistic on this, this has been declining over time, not increasing over time. And any sane person who is like broadly aware of what our generation goes through in terms of child rearing, knows that boomers are lazy, terrible people.

Um mm-hmm. We actually,

Simone Collins: it’s, it’s, it’s just a common trope now that, that boomer grandparents don’t contribute. And obviously there are noble exceptions and we have plenty of millennial friends that have moved just to be closer to their parents ‘cause their parents are helping. However it used to be very normative and now it’s not.

Malcolm Collins: [00:27:00] Yeah. So this is just like a comical thing to, to argue this. I, I genuinely can’t believe that somebody like wrote this into a script, went on air and gave this to people and wasn’t like, wow, I’m gonna look really foolish.

Simone Collins: Well, I think, you know, okay, there are people who comment regularly on our videos and who were like, I, there are, journalism is shoddy.

They just ask AI a bunch of questions. And I mean, keep in mind guys, like, one, we’re not journalists. Two, this is, you’re basically watching like conversations between a husband and wife about stuff they’re reading online that they’ve chosen to make public. Like we never pretended to be journalists. And three, we’re publishing a video every day of the week now.

Okay. Like we don’t have time, including weekends for our paid subscribers. Yeah, that’s what I mean every day of the week. Philosophy Tube has time. To do the research. Philosophy Tube does a video. What, like every three months, every two months or something? Yeah. And, and Philosophy Tube is, is filming in a set which you see in the video being filmed.

Like they’re going to [00:28:00] a. Workspace. We have two other jobs, guys. Studio, we have two other jobs. Yeah. This is, this is what we do for fun. You’re watching our conversations as a husband and wife. Again, about stuff we read online and that we wanna share with each other. ‘cause we’re nerds we are not journalists and we never pretended to meet.

So I just, I wanna, because people are gonna be like, well, okay, that’s hypocrisy. I

Malcolm Collins: actually

Simone Collins: pushed

Malcolm Collins: back for very strong on you on this one. Okay. We are journalists. We are what the modern field of journalism has become. Mm-hmm. We do do things regularly. Journalists make mistakes as well. We do use a lot of AI for fact checking.

But the degree to which we use the AI for fact checking depends on how much I care or whether what I’m saying is actually true. So, if I, for example, am making a comment about somebody’s religion, like, this is what Jews believe, or this is what’s in the Bible, or this is what Catholics believe, I’m gonna be like really strict in my fact checking.

It’s true.

Simone Collins: And it’s about religion. You’re really, really careful.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: I’m like, someone recently cited where they’re like. Well, but he was citing James Lindsay, everyone knows, is not [00:29:00] trustworthy. And like, we don’t even know who James Lindsay is. I

Malcolm Collins: know who James Lindsay is. We met him multiple times.

Simonon, I don’t even know what you’re going on about. He’s super famous. Anyway, so, I was here saying that, that a and, and James Lindsay has some very interesting takes. He’s kind of crazy, but he has some interesting takes. But anyway, the point here being is, when it’s something that I know doesn’t actually matter to people’s lives.

Mm-hmm. Like I’m talking about like the way Hassan Piker grew up or something. Mm-hmm. I’m more likely to just trust the first thing I get from ai. Yeah. With, but the, the, the larger point here being is I like the, the amount I use AI in something depends on how much me getting that wrong is going to disparage a group or is going to mess up your life.

So that’s, that’s sort of our philosophy on that. But what I wanted to point out here is I, even with that being the case, would never present an argument this poorly thought through. This is just like at surface level stupid. Like, okay, we’ll go to the next one here, which I think is incredibly stupid.

Stereotypes of older people as a burden [00:30:00] is harmful and false. Where she is trying to be like. You know, elderly people still work, they still contribute to the economy. And it’s a stereotype to say that they don’t, and people are healthier longer now. And I’m like, that is really stupid. Like older people are less productive than younger people.

Like are you denying that? Are you like, I’m, I’m actually confused. I am act because I’ve said that there is, there are like good arguments about caring about Tism, like if she came out the gate with ai. Right. And AI will automate people. That wasn’t even one of her arguments.

Simone Collins: Or, or even just a logically consistent anti-natal list argument.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that would’ve been fine for me too. An anti iist argument. Like an anti, a negative utilitarian argument. I’d be like, I disagree. There’s logical

Simone Collins: consistency. Yeah. We, we, we logically

Malcolm Collins: consistent. Yeah. Or one saying AI will replace so many people. Like, we don’t even need to be thinking about this. We need to [00:31:00] be That’s totally good as well.

Yes. Or AI safety is just such a bigger risk. That’s fine as well. I disagree, but like insane. These are just like. Don’t, and that’s what gets me because there are smart things she could have said, right? But like, how dare you be bigoted against the elderly and say that they’re not as productive and don’t pay as many taxes as younger people.

And it’s like, but they aren’t like and and it’s your plan actually to like remove the concept of retirement from our society so that your communist utopia can work people to the day they’re dead so it can continue to support itself. Like is that actually the world we’re going into? It’s just so cruel if you actually think about the long-term implications about what she’s trying to normalize here.

So the next argument, economic systems can adapt and thrive despite demographic changes. By the way, if you’re wondering, like, the way I’m going over these, this is again, me using AI to summarize all of her points because she was very long and verbose. And so I put a transcript in AI and I’m like. [00:32:00] That’s fine to do.

You don’t actually want me to go over literally everything she’s saying because it was really long and did not respect the audience’s time. And it really annoyed me. Because I want, I want fast answers, I want lots of information. I want grass. You know, I’m not getting that. I’m getting skits about a trans woman pissing on a pregnancy test.

Simone Collins: Literally. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: okay. Anyway. Economic systems can adapt and thrive despite demographic changes. Specifically here, she’s like, pension systems rely on future economic output, not just current contributors. Public pensions depend on taxation, private pensions on investment quality, both of which are going to be hurt by falling fertility rates.

As we’ve pointed out. Agent populations also reflect successes like low infant mortality, better public health, and more women in the education slash workforce. And it’s like, first of all, they don’t. As we’ve pointed out a, a graph of India where you can see

the participation in the workforce by gender of women and men during the nine nineties [00:33:00] when fertility collapse for India, it is not because women participate in the workforce that fertility rates are collapsing.

It is, it is actually seems to be almost irrelevant to falling fertility rates. Exactly.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: so,

Simone Collins: And you see similar stuff from Iran, like when, when Iran started to curtail female access to education. Birth rate kept falling. You know, all these things that you would assume would happen if the issue was women being in the workforce or women being educated.

No, that’s, that’s not, that’s not it guys.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: We were thinking about doing a whole episode on how feminism and female workforce participation is not responsible for demographic apps, but we have not gotten around to it

Malcolm Collins: yet. Well, it’s just, if you look at a graph, and one of my favorite graphs, and I’m, you’re not gonna remember to put a graph here in editing

is if you look at falling fertility rates over time in the United States and in Europe and here we have England, France, and the United States, you can see that the vast majority of fertility collapse happened from like 1830s to like, let’s say like, 1900, like well below before [00:34:00] the feminist movement.

Right? The feminist movement actually came onto the stage well after the vast majority of ity collapse had already happened, right? Mm-hmm. It is relevant to fertility collapse and it’s something we need to address as we address fertility collapse. But it is not like, just, just show she’s never really engaged with any of the arguments on the other side.

Now she goes on here to say that birth rate fantasm masks ideological agendas, and everyone’s heard this. I mean it, people have multiple agendas. This is like saying environmentalism a mass ideological agendas, it can mask ideological agendas. I care. About fertility rates. But I also care more about fertility rates among people who are culturally similar to me because this is my culture.

Like obviously I have pride in my own culture, as I said, everyone should, right? Mm-hmm. So like I am going to be concerned about falling fertility rates within the United States more than I’m gonna be concerned about falling fertility rates in Europe, which we’ve seen less of within the United States, which as I’ve said, you know, the do future world if [00:35:00] fertility rates stay the same as they are now is gonna be dominated by the United States and Israel.

Just ‘cause we’re the countries that have been the most resistant to this, that are economically prosperous. And I’ve also pointed out here in other videos we’ve done recently Latin American fertility rates are absolutely in the gutter. You know, even if you look in the United States,

like Mexico fell below us, TFR last year, financial Times did a piece on this.

Obviously there’s different measures of this, but by the ones I consider most, most trustworthy, it appears to Latin America collectively may have fallen below the US fertility rate. The lowest fertility state in the United States is Puerto Rico. Well, state or territory the Latin American state the only place where Latin Americans have decent fertility rates is when they are minority populations among other populations.

The black fertility rate in the United States fell below the right fertility rate this year. So like that’s not a thing. So even if you claim, well,

Simone Collins: even like so well before that at higher levels of income, black fertility rate was, was. Basically consistently trenched by white fertility rates. Yeah.

So like, when, when everyone, anyone’s thriving still, like, we’d be more concerned about black populations in the US and that’s a big problem. So, because poverty’s always gonna predict, well, not always, but [00:36:00] like consistently poverty is predicted high fertility. So that doesn’t count.

Malcolm Collins: But like, obviously my, my agendas wrap up here.

Like, I want society to move away from the clutch of the urban monoculture, the mind virus. And, and now from yesterday’s episode, we learned people with literal parasites that are changing their behavior, that have convergently evolved with the mind virus to help infect more people through things like

Simone Collins: literally a mind virus.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s literally a. Mimetic virus combined with a collection of pathogens which are symbiotic and help each other spread and turn women into Cat Ladies so that they can help spread more of this pathogen. And that this is what we’re fighting against. And you help because your message is gonna be disproportionately appealing to people with these sorts of mind viruses who have lower threat detection.

‘cause we know that these people vote Democrat more. Mm-hmm. And and that’s been heavily attested in Toxoplasmic Go Gandhi infected individuals. And so, you know, you do help serve our agenda by [00:37:00] going out there and convincing whits. Followers that this is a good idea. Right. And I’ll note I was actually surprised by the number of down votes that her video got.

Our videos rarely get many down votes. We’re typically at like 2% down votes or something on a video, unless we’re like attacking a religion and then it gets higher. But she had like 1.1 K down votes. Good heaven

Simone Collins: really

Malcolm Collins: 2020 K upvotes or something like that. So yeah, that’s a surprise. I mean, you have to really dislike something to down vote it.

So maybe even her own fans were like, this is, this is dumb.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. There’s been a pretty big tipping point against like trans anything. So I could just see a lot of people who don’t follow.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God, it’s so big now. Like, do you know the Olympics is looking to ban trans women from participating and not looking

Simone Collins: to, I think they just announced.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, they did in the IGC recently. Shocking

Simone Collins: Discovery.

Malcolm Collins: Got a report saying that that they’re gonna, as they all should have done a long time ago, everyone who was saying knew this with a bad idea. And I’m sure you can watch Philosophy two videos [00:38:00] saying that it’s not a bad idea and the argument’s probably gonna be just as bad because of the Wachowski effect.

You can look it up see our video on it. Why does IQ drop so much in trans individuals and why? Can you not know that this is happening? We go over the video. There’s a bunch of studies that were done in pretty much up to the nineties. It showed this with a very big effect, potentially one standard deviation.

We have large amounts of information in this, in animal models because we needed to know this for like farming and, and stuff like that, because often used you sterilize animals. And the evidence that shows that it doesn’t like the big study that they always say shows that it doesn’t, it turns out it was conducted by the head of the WPATH files.

So not very believable because everybody involved in that study made their living off of transic people. So just worse noting because Philosophy tube didn’t, I, you know, if you look at their stuff because they’ve been doing this since before they transitioned, it wasn’t quite this brain dead. So, but the Wachowski effect talks about a whole different thing that is a, that leads to the lower.

Perception of IQ was in transitioning individuals, which is just that they’re operating with a different genders brain that they didn’t grow up learning to use. It’s like they grew [00:39:00] up learning to use a guitar and somebody handled them a mandolin and it’s like, play it the way you used to play your guitar.

And they can, and it comes out sounding dumb. But hey, they can get an audience because of differential treatment, right? Yeah, but that’s the whole thing. There’s like the trans bread tuber community, right? Yeah. Where you just have tons of famous trans bread tubers because there was a period when the left would disproportionately listen to trans people.

Anyway to continue here. Real birth rate problems are about reproductive rates and socioeconomic support. Many people have fewer children than they want to because they lack of support, not moral decline. UFPN shows sources, key barriers, financial course, job security, housing course, unequal domestic labor.

I point out here that housing costs are way higher in Israel like, like multiples higher in Israel. You can go to dedicated videos we have on this topic. It is not housing costs. Housing costs do change, fertility rate, but like 20% or something like that. You, they’re also much denser than in the United States.

So it’s not levels of denseness. Mm-hmm. And in the United States, less money you have, the more kids you have. So it’s also not. Not that people don’t have enough money. This is just like bad when you look at the facts. Political and media [00:40:00] exploitation of demography fuels distracting FSMs. She basically is like that.

This is being used to stroke anxiety and blah, blah, blah. Push harmful pro policy like ation and cuts and just hippie nonsense here. It’s not really an argument, it’s just I don’t like that this, if, if we recognize that this is a real issue, that it po could be used to promote political goals that are harmful to mine which it, it does.

And apocalyptic demographic re rhetoric supports reactionary social agendas. Again, I don’t like that this can be used. Like if this is real, then people might have a reason to care about immigration if they feel that their population could go extinct, even though immigration. Presumably can’t actually be that effectively used to resolve demographic collapse.

But even if it could, people probably wouldn’t want it because they don’t wanna erase their local cultures and ethnic groups, which, why should they? Right. Like for example, as we pointed out, like even if we are talking about local black Americans, they might have a fertility rate now it looks like around 1.3.

And the imported blacks have a [00:41:00] way higher fertility rate. Well, what is this great replacement of local blacks do. Local blacks don’t have a reason to care that they are being replaced.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it’s very, they doff protest too much.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and the reason I, I talked about it in context of blacks is because I, that removes her ability to be like, well, this is white, white people.

Shut up. Okay. She says,

Simone Collins: G,

Malcolm Collins: the real fragility crisis is a crisis of choice and support, not numbers. Fertility problems are about people lacking the choice and capability to have desired children. She points out that people wanna have more kids than they do have. But again, I just

Simone Collins: wanna hear, I, she’s, she’s talking about the Stephen Shaw argument, and I mean, it’s, it’s true.

This, this is broadly a product of the big trend that everyone’s seeing with demographic collapse, which is that. People still want kids. They’re just having kids a lot later, and that means that they’re not able to have the number of kids they want. They’re getting married later. They’re not able to have the number of kids they want.

It’s a problem. Why

Malcolm Collins: do they have more kids when they have less money then? [00:42:00]

Simone Collins: Because they get married younger and, or they just have kids out of wedlock? Really young.

Malcolm Collins: The, the larger point being it’s that it’s not, I mean this, this is clearly not the issue.

Simone Collins: I mean, it is an issue. She’s just not really discussing it in in depth.

Malcolm Collins: You can always make choices to live. There are people who have less money than you, pretty much whatever income level you are. As a fan of this show I doubt we have many people who are at the bottom of the barrel of society, given the way we structure our content given the demographics of our fans which might mean that you may earn, you know, an average American wage, which is hard to live on, but there are, you know, a quarter of Americans living on half of that.

You know, you, you can find ways to make things work, right? I think that, that, that this is there’s, there’s always a way to make things work. It’s just that you don’t wanna make the sacrifices around this. The best solutions are social investment, not panic solutions for population. Birth rates are practical, policy based and progressive.

Like higher wages, secure jobs, housing, health and social issues, comprehensive sexual [00:43:00] education. Childcare, scraping of child benefits you know, et cetera. And it’s like paternity leave. And we’re like, we’ve shown that none of these things really help fertility rates. Like if you had actually done any research on this, you would know that there are plenty of countries that have tried this stuff and it doesn’t work.

We have a way higher fertility rate than Northern Europe. Like you’re aware of, like broadly you’re aware of that, right? Where they have all of this stuff that you say is going to help. We have a way higher fertility rate than Canada. Like, you’re aware of that, right? I I’m, I’m very confused. Like, does she just live in an alternate timeline?

Like I feel like she came from like a slider’s world. Right? You know, and, and, and she came here and she’s like, debating based on facts that are just not at all. I, I, it was almost weird to watch because I’m almost sort of wondering, I I do not think that, and you could tell me if I’m wrong here. I do not think that there was any interest.

In actually engaging with this topic, right? Like, there, there, there, this was not an honest [00:44:00] intellectual engagement with the topic. It was because it was clear that she hadn’t thought, what are the counterpoints to the things I’m saying? Which is always one of the things that I try to think first.

In fact, this is one of the number one ways we use AI when doing episodes. It’s typically before any episode goes live I will take the script and I will give it to an AI and I will say, what are the best counterpoints to what I’m saying here? Right? Because I do not want to go on air and look foolish, right?

Simone Collins: The impression I got was that philosophy tube saw demographic collapse is a big and trending issue, and therefore this would be a good topic to cover in future episodes. Possibly. Also, they received a lot of requests around it, you know, because it is trending and they would like to see the views of a trans, a progressive trans woman in the UK on the subject because.

Philosophy tube is in an interesting area for it. You know, I mean there’s a lot of tension around immigration [00:45:00] fertility in the uk.

Malcolm Collins: Just didn’t want to care like it was. It was coming into this from the perspective of this cannot be a real existential issue because if it is, then I am in the wrong and I made bad decisions in my life that lead me to be an immoral person.

So I am going to approach this, trying to come up with every lazy, and they were very lazy arguments. As I’ve said, there are good arguments you can come at this.

Simone Collins: Well, I think that the thing is that philosophy tube is probably intuitively antinatalists, but hasn’t thought through it enough to actually realize that they are antenatal list and therefore this would’ve been better argued from the perspective of a philosophically actualized antinatalists.

But here we just basically had someone who hasn’t put much thought into the matter, as you say.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that makes sense. Sad. Well, I love you Simone. I by the way, for yesterday’s episode, the one on the the parasites and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. If somebody knows, like Asba Golder, one of the big, [00:46:00] like, streamers who’d like watch other things, I want somebody bigger than us to do that because that information needs to be out there.

Like the right needs to be having a discussion that we are actually dealing with, like an invasion of the body stature situation.

Simone Collins: What’s so funny is that there’s a lot of people pointed out in the comments like, fortune has already been on this. A bunch of other people have already been on this. Like, but they’ve all been considered fringe crazies and no, there’s actual real research that shows this to be a real thing, which is just so crazy.

So, Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Do we, should we be saying this to reporters? Are we gonna get in trouble if we’re like, well, I mean also the parasites that control their brains are,

Simone Collins: we’re not gonna be taken seriously by reporters if we say it.

Malcolm Collins: That is, I I I, I look at their lived experiences, the people who’ve taken in vermin, right?

You, you dismiss them. They say they were aroused by, you know, same sex individuals and all of a sudden they’re not like, are, are

Simone Collins: you? And I, I wanna, I wanna do more research into the various ways Ivermectin has been used, and if anyone has systematically reviewed various use [00:47:00] cases. I mean, keep in mind GLP one inhibitors like Ozempic were used for diabetes, you know, and then suddenly way after they were used for that, they were discovered to be a wonder drug for obesity.

So who knows what Ivermectin turns out to be used for eventually. You know, but we’ll see. Maybe there’s an episode in there. We’ll take a look.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been fun to talk about with you. I mean, I feel we need to respond to, I, I’d really like a, a smarter version of her to do this.

‘cause I’d love a smart progressive to talk about this. Counter

Simone Collins: Points. I love

Malcolm Collins: Counter points. Contra Points is much smarter than her. Yeah. And more entertaining too. This is what I’m talking about, all these sort of screen. That’s

Simone Collins: one thing I don’t care about. Smart. I, I care about entertaining. Contra points entertains me.

I love, I love Contra Points video.

Malcolm Collins: I also wonder if Philosophy Tube got popular just because people saw her videos and couldn’t tell her apart from contra points and then

Simone Collins: clicked on her. I just wanted, I got, I, I, well, the reason I’ve tried, every time I’ve tried to watch a Philosophy Tube episode, it doesn’t [00:48:00] work for me.

But the reason I tried in the first place was because of contra points. And I was like, I need more contra points because. There aren’t enough. You know, I’ve gone through the entire backlog, you know, so, and

is she the store brand Contra Points where it’s

like, oh, she’s, yeah, she’s, she’s the, I was gonna say Kirkland, but Kirkland’s really good.

Good, great value. No, like Walmart’s generics are also fantastic. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. Generics are really good, so we can’t even say that. You know, she’s like

Malcolm Collins: a bad knockoff. Okay. By, by like one of those

skinny

Simone Collins: Yeah, she, she’s, she’s the fufu of Contra Points,

Malcolm Collins: the la Fufu of Contra Points. They are,

Simone Collins: LA Fufu

Malcolm Collins: is expensive.

Simone Collins: Labu boos are the real ones. LA Fuss are the fake ones.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, okay, okay. Okay.

Simone Collins: Really out of the loop. I’m so sorry.

Malcolm Collins: I know nothing about labu boos

Simone Collins: or LA That’s good. Keep it that way. God bless.

Malcolm Collins: We should maybe do an episode where we’re like, you, the things you’re out of the know about, like, like the 6, 9, 7, 6, 7 thing.

And the,

Simone Collins: well, the clearly you’re still [00:49:00] out of the loop on those then.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t know. I don’t know these things. I mean, the biggest thing with our kids is, is, is still among us. He, he wanted to name, we asked what we wanna name the next kid, and he said it among us.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Hey, Simone, do you wanna go? Oh, we’ll do this in the next episode.

Intro. Love you, Simone. And you are amazing. Bye.

Simone Collins: I love you too. Which you wanna go into next? Lying?

Malcolm Collins: No, your one.

Simone Collins: Oh, my one. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: You seemed excited about it.

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah. I, I. So you’re never gonna view Ivermectin the same way again? Are you?

Malcolm Collins: How am I looking?

Simone Collins: You’re looking good.

Malcolm Collins: All right.

Simone Collins: It’s so funny, I always thought that that jacket was some weird thrift store find until Oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah. You didn’t realize it was Ralph Lauren when Ralph Lauren went through a goth phase.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: And people don’t remember this. Who didn’t shop at Ralph Lauren during Ralph Lauren’s goth phase. Ralph [00:50:00] Lauren.

Absolutely.

Like the best goth clothes I have ever gotten. I got Lauren

Simone Collins: so weird. I mean, great. It’s sad that their goth face was

Malcolm Collins: lived. Tshirts that were really gothy looking. Like

Simone Collins: T-shirts.

Malcolm Collins: Elegant. Understated. The way that I like to dress goth, you know, I don’t, I don’t wanna be too in your face about it, right?

Simone Collins: Uhhuh? Yeah, there different types of goth. There’s like wears an invader zm shirt from hot topic goth, and then there’s. Goth Goth. I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, if you wanna do it right, like you gotta, there’s, there’s, there’s mall goth, which is like gross, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Then there’s like a take on Victorian goth.

Simone Collins: That’s great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s, it’s great. But it’s a little over the top in Fay

Simone Collins: a little much. There’s, well, there’s also goth, which is steam

Malcolm Collins: punk goth, which I think looks ridiculous. It’s like glue a gear on it.

Simone Collins: It’s a little too much

Malcolm Collins: min, there’s,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: What I went for, which is I guess today, I’d call it preppy goth prep.

Simone Collins: Preppy [00:51:00] goth.

Malcolm Collins: Preppy

Simone Collins: goth. I’m ready for that. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And nobody knew that preppy goth was an option until they saw Malcolm Collins, and then they’re like,

Simone Collins: well, or until anyone I guess, yeah, I guess this segment of people who were both goth but could afford Ralph Lauren clove. Like from the store directly.

Oh

Malcolm Collins: my God. They were not the only of the big stores that had goth. Oh. Another one that had gothy clothes was I wanna say Bergdorf’s. What’s the one that was in

Simone Collins: that? Bergdorf?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, Bergdorf. Where they have like different fashions on each.

Simone Collins: That’s a department store.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It went outta business. Yeah.

Bergdorf had

Simone Collins: goth. No, Bergdorf is still fine, I think. Are you thinking Barney’s?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, I know. I’m maybe thinking the one that’s on, on Saks at Fifth Avenue.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s, that’s again just a high-end department store. So it just has different brands within it. You just, different designer brands. This is just ‘cause Yeah, when you were a teen, you had your mother insisting that you, you could never buy like Thrifted clothes.

You had to buy ridiculously expensive

Malcolm Collins: clothes. Most of what I wore with Thrifted.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. When you were out of the house

Malcolm Collins: and [00:52:00] then I’d like sew up my clothes and everything to be really cool. I was the cool guy. I’ll tell you what no, I wanna

Simone Collins: hear, or, or I think I heard somewhere the JCO jeans have made a comeback.

Malcolm Collins: They have. I had one pair of JCO jeans, but that was when I was so young and they actually,

Simone Collins: and New Rock boots

Malcolm Collins: a lot of money.

Simone Collins: I could see New rock boots making it come back new I found is cool. New Rock are sitting in the attic. They’re still here

Malcolm Collins: as an adult. Yeah, but they’re kind of falling apart. I’m actually thinking maybe I should get new, new rocks.

Like

Simone Collins: they’re huge.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And they make me taller. Like why not? Like I dress fancy, like why not just incorporate new rocks into my outfit? I need to wear yellow boots. I’m sure New Rock has some great yellow boots so I can match the rest of the family.

Simone Collins: Let’s see. New rock boots, yellow.

Oh, not really. No.

Malcolm Collins: Really? Oh, that’s such a disappointment.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh, nope. Sorry. It autocorrected to New York. Boots.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you see? [00:53:00] Well, I’m on their page now. So let’s see. Yellow, what comes up? I know they have at least yellow women’s boots. The question is, do they have yellow

Simone Collins: boots? I’m seeing gross camo platform shoes and that’s it.

That have yellow soles, but camo uppers. You don’t want that?

Malcolm Collins: No. I’d probably just go for like the classic one. The,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. Just the classic new rock boots. You gonna get chingo jeans too? Hmm?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I gotta, I gotta go unfortunately with all yellow. So, you know, yellow trumps the, the fancy boots.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which we do match the kids. So how do people like the, I was surprised it only did four outta 10, I think like maybe one of the best episodes we’ve ever done.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But we could arguably be spreading medical misinformation, which makes the algorithm hate us. So.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, this, this is the that you think that’s what was going on?

Simone Collins: It possibly, there was,

Malcolm Collins: it

Simone Collins: was the episode from the people also constantly like commenting on everyone else’s [00:54:00] comments, saying like, this is not, it’s, it, it’s not

statistically relevant.

What was that?

Malcolm Collins: I actually know why a person had a freak out. So this was the episode where we discussed that there actually is a significant amount of evidence today that certain.

Species of both parasites and some fungus and potentially some bacteria have evolved to modify human arousal pathways to make them prefer certain things that, lead them to, you know, a or more gay sex or the other one that was really crazy is lead to lower threat detection.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Evolving was the urban monoculture as like a set. And this is just amazing to me that this is the case. And one person is probably aware, ‘cause one of the ones we talked about was Toxoplasmic Gandhi toxoplasmosis. And there was a big scare about toxoplasmosis when we were kids. Right. And so everybody learned about it back then.

And then there was some studies that came out that [00:55:00] showed that that scare may have been unwarranted. And then everybody, you know, whenever like, there’s a viral thing and then there it can be like a viral against the viral thing. Mm-hmm. And then everybody set to that and they were apparently unaware that yet a new big string of studies had come out showing that it appears to have now evolved to.

Only spread was in human populations without cats, and specifically specialize in modifying human arousal behavior and other sorts of behavioral to increase. And I think that they were just unaware of this later string of evidence, but also keep in mind how hurtful this is, if it is true to a large segment of the population that decided to identify with their arousal patterns.

And now it’s just like, oh, that was a parasite. By the way, controlling you, your

Simone Collins: identity was a parasite.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Your, your identity wasn’t you, it was a parasite that became, I tell its lady like

Simone Collins: they, they’re building identities around diseases they don’t even have. So, you know, I mean, it’s lifestyle.

Malcolm Collins: Well it’s, it’s more [00:56:00] humiliating to be used as just part of the reproductive process of a, a parasite.

Well, I mean, think about it, like when you talk about lower threat detection and stuff like that, that there’s this girl who, you know, wanted to do a march through Europe in the Middle East to prove that you know, yeah. Everybody’s equal and kind and, you know, very low detection. She gets within a mile of a border of an Arab majority country and is found murdered and graped.

Right? Like they, if you’re just like, actually she did that in the same way, like an ant that’s been infected with like fungus spores, crawls to the top of a, a, a leaf that is head can explode and the spores can come out to infect other aunts like that. Her life literally. Was just a vehicle for the reproduction of pathogens.

It’s a, it’s a hurtful thing to internalize, but what’s wild is there were so many comments in our discord and on the main channel being like, oh my God. Yeah, I was aroused by men or I was by, and then I, when our regimen of anti [00:57:00] antibiotics or I took Ivermectin was a really common one, and all of a sudden those feelings went away.

And this is apparently like a really common story that people have in our fan base. And I actually want to double down and try to, because it makes sense and it makes sense that the public wouldn’t want you to know about this. And it makes sense that the urban monoculture may have some kind of immune reaction when Ivermectin started to get become popular because a lot of people in our fan base, because, you know, we’re a fairly right white leaning show, it’s like, yeah, I was super left-leaning and then I took Ivermectin and it’s like, oh my God.

Like, is. Is this weird? Like not thinking about the future mindset. ‘cause that seems to be really core to modern, progressive thinking is complete blindness to future events. By this what I mean, it’s, it’s this. We even had a reporter who was like super progressive and I’m like, do you just like actually not care that like social security is gonna collapse because of the things you’re doing and, and, and Medicaid is gonna collapse and welfare is gonna collapse in the future.

Like, do you not care about those future people? She goes, you know [00:58:00] what I think about it, I really don’t at all. And I think this requires like something lesioning your brain to like not think about future events. That is not normal human behavior. And that’s what we might actually be seeing here. So anyway, really cool stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I’m doing the final.

Simone Collins: Loved it. I think the algorithm just doesn’t like people talking about

Malcolm Collins: Well then you gotta share, you gotta share the info guys. We never ask you guys to share, but this is actually info that I want to become popular. Like I’m not even saying like if you know like a big right-wing podcaster or something like that, I want them covering this info.

I want this info, you know, everywhere, right?

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I mean, Joe Rogan was the big ivermectin advocate,

Malcolm Collins: right? But this is different from that. This is, this is is pointing out that there is a collection of pathogens and parasites that are convergently evolving to be symbiotic with the urban monoculture and the urban monoculture is evolving to protect them.

Anyway, [00:59:00] I will get started here. Simone,

Simone Collins: I’m excited for this one. I’m curious to see where you take it.

Speaker 6: Look at this. Look at this. What are you doing? I, you, I’m, this is my beef lo mane that my wife made. Look at this. Could you imagine if you had this every night? Oh my God. Could you imagine? It’s so tender. You guys have no idea. Yeah, it’s.

Speaker 9: What are you working on? What are you doing? Titan?

It’s okay. Professor safe, come on. You don’t wanna be afraid of dogs. He not one of the boys.

You gotta calm down around dogs. Come on sweetheart. Come on, let’s go. [01:00:00] You’ll learn.

Speaker 8: You’re, you’re, you’re good boy.

Let’s go.

Dive into a mind-bending discussion with Malcolm and Simone Collins as they explore the fascinating—and unsettling—world of disease-based mind control. In this episode, they break down recent research on how parasites and pathogens like toxoplasmosis and certain yeasts may influence human behavior, sexuality, and even cultural trends.

Discover how these microorganisms could be shaping everything from sexual preferences to risk-taking, and why some behaviors that seem purely psychological might actually have a biological origin. The hosts discuss the science, the social implications, and the controversial questions that arise when we consider the possibility that diseases are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Whether you’re interested in neuroscience, psychology, or just love a good intellectual rabbit hole, this episode will challenge your assumptions and leave you questioning how much of our behavior is truly our own.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments![00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today we are gonna be diving into something that one of our fans sent us. And as I read about this. I was mortified. It appears that toxoplasmosis, remember that thing that everybody knows about from pop culture where it’s something that you can catch from cats and it sort of disorients mice and changes their behavior and makes them more likely to be caught and eaten by cats, thus spreading the cycle of infection.

And people are aware it can spread to humans and slightly change human behavior. Well, there was a study done toxic Plasmosis Gandhi, detailed description of the Conan asexual and sexual development and Cyte sporulation that showed that actually there are a number of variations of this that begin to specialize at targeting specific species.

Not only that, but this paper then goes over other [00:01:00] parasites in diseases that may be modifying. Human sexual behavior so that they can spread more aggressively with a lot of receipts.

Simone Collins: In other words, the diseases are in the driver’s seat of our brains. They are,

Malcolm Collins: Some people’s brains. Yeah, if you’ve been involved, did you know that with, with Toxoplasmosis, before we go into it, it’s already been shown to make males that are infected with it taller and thus more attractive to women, and that.

It can transfer from male to male and male to female, but not female to male.

Simone Collins: That’s right. Because it’s, it’s transferred through sperm.

Malcolm Collins: So yes, so no, but this is wild to me that it is literally creating extra attractive males modifying what arouses them to be more likely to be into gay stuff. So that Well,

Simone Collins: and BDSM in general, just like racy stuff

Malcolm Collins: ish.

Well, [00:02:00] the type of stuff that would involve the types of contact that would spread a disease. But it’s not just that. Did you know that the one of the things we’re gonna be going over is HPV virus you know, the one that you can get from eating girls out. Did you know that it makes you more interested in eating girls out or wanting eaten out?

So when you have HPV, you want guys to eat you out more.

I got in this section wrong from memory. It’s actually yeast infections that caused this.

Malcolm Collins: So we’re gonna go over. Oh,

Simone Collins: that’s interesting. I mean, my generation was the first, our generation was the first to get vaccinated against it. I’m vaccinated against it. You know, the funny thing is I, it was, it was, you know, sold to me of course is like a completely sexless teen.

And I was so enthusiastic about getting it, even though I like basically planned on living a virgin my entire life, but I was still like, I’m so excited to get this vaccine. I just wanted to collect vaccines, gotta catch ‘em all. But I wonder like if the opposite of it is, may have contributed to [00:03:00] my aversion to it or if the default is aversion to it and then if maybe just getting infected with it is the thing that makes this a pervasive.

Now

Malcolm Collins: she hates the idea of somebody eating her out, which works fine for me. No, but actually this is really interesting. So one of the things we’re gonna get to at the end of this piece is sort of a hypothesis on why these one and this isn’t talked about in the piece, but it’s something that we need to talk about ‘cause it’s very germane to our audience.

Mm. Why when the science is beginning to show that this stuff is very likely happening, that some of the degenerate behavior we’re seeing in our society is literally humans being modified by diseases to have unique and differentiated arousal patterns. Mm-hmm. Why aren’t you being told about this? And the answer is fairly obvious.

It would be mortified if you could say, which is one of the things we’re going to talk about is. Same sex attraction may be insert modified by a bacteria or a another form of disease. It may be mortifying to tell somebody that part of your kink profile [00:04:00] is actually just the fact that you had a disease at a young age or even recently.

Simone Collins: One if, if memory serves too. The research found that some of the effects of being infected with toxoplasmosis amplified over time. So the longer you were infected,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, the longer you were

Simone Collins: infected, the worse your reaction times. Which is one of the reasons why

Malcolm Collins: this gets to the thing where somebody can be like, oh, online porn screwed up my brain.

It made me into like really extreme things, and I’ve pointed that the research shows this isn’t actually the case. That online porn does not seem to amplify the weirdness of the things you’re aroused by. It’s just that you become better at finding the stuff that you’re interested in. Mm-hmm. But that it may be the case that what these people actually have and do not realize.

Is a disease that is amplifying the things that they were aroused by.

Simone Collins: Right? Right. Like if that can be the case with toxoplasmosis and reaction times and why is it not the case with Yeah. These other things.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then we’ve gotta start asking, as a society, are orgies a bad idea? Is the way that we are treating sexuality more [00:05:00] broadly in our society a bad idea?

Was it actually good to have prohibitions against the non-VA sex? And well

Simone Collins: also, yeah, this, this changes the way that I think we’re gonna talk with our kids about STDs. ‘cause it’s one thing to be like, oh, you got crabs. Like I just, I remember that Sex in the City episode and it’s just like, like, oh, now I just, kids antibiotics and it sucks, or whatever.

But now it’s like, no, actually this might change your. Your identity, your behavior.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. In in our generation, we are all terrified of aids, right? And now not, people aren’t afraid of AIDS anymore. People with AIDS are just like, oh, on prep, whatever, right? But by the way, that’s one of the diseases that also changes behavior prep

Simone Collins: is prep is if you wanna avoid aids, isn’t it?

You’re on something else. If you actually

Malcolm Collins: have no prep is if you have, look, it doesn’t matter. The point is, is now people feel that AIDS is in a risk because prep exists. But the point being is that CRF is said on prep. It’s really effed up, like the government pays for it. And the only thing it’s really useful for is people who want to have a lot of sex with non-monogamous partners.

It’s weird. But the point here being is even AIDS seems to affect behavior to help it spread. So we’re [00:06:00] gonna go over this. We’re gonna go over the research of it, but to me, as a kid, this would be even more terrifying than aids. It’s like. You sleep around and a virus is gonna rewrite your brain to turn you into like, a degenerate you know, and, and an idiot.

And it will control your personality. Have fun with that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because just to, to be clear, it doesn’t just make med taller and give them behaviors that make them more attractive. It also affects reaction time. So there’s a higher proportion of people who die in, in traffic accidents if they have toxoplasmosis.

And like I mentioned earlier, the reaction time gets worse over time. So, I mean, you don’t want, like, from a safety standpoint, that’s not a good thing. Yes. So, so I’m

Malcolm Collins: skipping a bit into the article to start here.

Okay. Humans can get infected between 13 and 43% of adults 25 years to 50 years of age in Europe with lower rates in North America and higher ones in Brazil and Africa, reman et all 20, 25 some strains.

So, so note if you’re talking in Europe, it’s around 43% of people are [00:07:00] infected at this point. So

Simone Collins: basically half like you, you, you should expect that you’re gonna get infected if you,

Malcolm Collins: if you’re having promiscuous sex. Yes. Yeah. And in, in the United States, the rates are lower though, so keep that

Simone Collins: in mind.

Well, no, but basically if you’re having promi promiscuous sex as a woman, because.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but not as a man.

I actually got this wrong when I first read this. , The rates in men are much higher than women, even though men can’t get it from women because bisexuals and gays have so much more promiscuous sex than straight women or men do. , So you’re actually more at risk if this of a man, but only if you are sleeping with other men.

Malcolm Collins: So we’ll get to that in a second. Some strains seem to have adapted specifically to human hosts. One of the three lineages, type two strains are the most common in our species.

They’re also much less lethal than type one, perhaps because they have co-evolved with humans to a greater extent. Dego. Etal 2020. Hasani. Etal 2019, clicks on and Kin 2015. You know what, actually you can just [00:08:00] go to where this paper is if you wanna see all the studies on it. Peter Frost did this piece on his substack.

It’s called Our Tiny Parasites, messing With Our Brains. Think Before You Swallow. No. I, I mean,

Simone Collins: I, I mean surely you’re, you’re being

Malcolm Collins: exposed to you even. No, no. The point I’m making here, the point that he’s making here is one of the lineages is behaving as if it’s adapted to humans already. To be less lethal to a species typically means you are better adapted to spread within that species.

That’s what happens. Diseases don’t want to kill you. That’s typically a very bad thing, and only really happens right after a a disease that’s made the jump from one species to another species. That’s why things like COVID or what was the, the pig flu or the, you know, bird flu or

Simone Collins: swine flu,

Malcolm Collins: whatever, it’s because they just made a jump from one species to another species that they haven’t adjusted to do.

Simone Collins: Sorry.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Infectious causes mental and behavioral changes to humans with other as with other animals, men become more jealous, women more easygoing, [00:09:00] and most sexes respond to threats as shown by a high risk of traffic accidents and longer reaction time show less risk to threats. Oh. So that’s interesting.

It basically makes men into terrible polyamorous partners and women more likely to be okay with their partners sleeping around.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean that makes, that would, that would work.

Malcolm Collins: That would help spread the disease. Yeah,

Simone Collins: that would do it.

Malcolm Collins: The last Friday finding proves the direction of causality.

The longer you have been affected, the lower you react. Slower reaction time does not increase your risk of infection. So, so it’s not that these people are less prone to risk, that makes them more likely. It’s the longer you infect, the worse this outcome gets. And it might be the case with these other pathogens we’re gonna talk about.

And there’s four studies. Well, it

Simone Collins: makes sense if it’s, isn’t it like brain lesions that’s causing this? So also you’re sort of like

Malcolm Collins: ossifying. It changes, it changes based on the infection type.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. So some things use brain lesions, some things use blood restrictions. Some things use fake neuro, neuro transistors.

It’s different Anyway. At the extremes of sexual behavior, infected individuals, [00:10:00] particularly men, feel more drawn to masochism, great fantasies, bondage same-sex experiences, and anal women with a latent toxoplasmosis also report feeling more drawn to violent sexual practices and same-sex experiences. But such fantasies are, if anything less often acted out by infected individuals.

Real changes to sexual behavior seem confined to a greater propensity for sexual promiscuity, oral sex, and among male homosexuals, anal sex. And there’s five studies that show this. By the way, this is not like fringe science here. Okay?

Yeah.

Tandja, and again, you go to the original substack if you wanna find links to all these, you guys don’t wanna hear me struggling to pronounce a bunch of names.

That matters to the one nerd who feels the need to fact check everything. T Gandhi eye manipulates not only behavior, but also physical appearance affected men are taller and women rate them as being more dominant and masculine looking infected. Men also have lower second to fourth digit ratios, a sign of greater [00:11:00] exposure to male hormones.

And there are four studies that show this. The physical manipulation is in line with a strategy of making infected males more attractive to per to prospective hosts study. Can this behavioral and physical manipulation be demonstrated under controlled conditions? Such research would be difficult because we cannot experiment with humans as we do as lab animals.

Humans also live long decades may pass between the initial infection and the ultimate payoff by the parasite. Two studies showing this. Nonetheless, a group of Czech researchers is convinced that some strains of TIG GHI have involved the ability to manipulate human behavior, specifically sex infected men, not only seek out more sexual partners, but also engage in sexual practices that transmit the parasite more efficiently.

IE into the partner’s oral cavity or anal canal. The existing host gets no reproductive benefit. In fact, his fertility is reduced through lower sperm counts and lower sperm motility. Isn’t

Simone Collins: that crazy? Yeah. You’d be like, oh, well. No, no.

Malcolm Collins: Well, also, he’s gonna [00:12:00] go on here and show that this may explain cuing behavior and other behavior that doesn’t seem to make sense.

And, and, and a preference for oral sex, which also does not really help you reproduce, right? That’s

Simone Collins: true. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Why, why do some people have oral preference? This may explain it. Mm-hmm. Oh, we’re not supposed. Talk about this.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But isn’t it kind of crazy that like a portion of society, particularly like the urban monoculture sex pest, may just be basically a disease behind the control, like driving human, like, you know, the little mouse inside the, the human

Simone Collins: Oh boy.

Malcolm Collins: Arguing for its own benefit. You know, when I see people, like there was recently, and we might do a full episode on this. You know, an individual like the one, the, the trans woman who runs philosophy tube, like giving this long, really poorly sought through, like she seems to get dumber every year sought through of why Tism doesn’t make sense and we don’t need to worry about this.

I’m like, but you’re like a manifestation of a human Darwin award. Like you’re not [00:13:00] part of human civilization anymore. You are not, you know, you don’t have any descendants to care about. Like, it doesn’t matter to you that your advice is so bad and will have such long-term negative ramifications for humanity.

But it might be that when I was trying to model her behavior, I shouldn’t be modeling her behavior, but the parasites that are driving it. And that is wild that I’ve realized like, oh my God, that that changes the way I have to attempt to model ultra urban monoculture people.

Simone Collins: Well, you’ve always referred to the urban monocultures being akin to being infected with well, a mimetic virus.

Right. But now it’s like, oh wait, they’re actual.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. But here’s the thing. If a virus in parasites increased the spread of the urban monoculture, the urban monoculture would adopt practices that increase the spread of the virus. Sure. ‘cause it would be a symbiotic cycle. So we might actually have some of these viruses or, or parasites that are working with the urban monoculture to genuinely turn the people infected [00:14:00] into puppets.

Mm-hmm. And as you walk around society and you say, oh my God, the people I’m interacting with seem more and more like puppets every day. They might be t Gandhi cyst in mouse brain. We know that Tig Gandhi is present in male ejaculate as cysts containing thousands of spores. There is a study here.

We also know that cyst spread from one body to another through fellatio anal sex and vaginal sex. The transmissions rates in male to female or male to male, but not male to male. And then two, studies show this as, as I mentioned earlier, sexual transmission, particularly from the male host, is indicated by several lines of evidence.

In heterosexual couples, an infected male partner increases the female partner’s risk of infection. But an infected female partner did not increase the male partner’s risk of infection in women. The risk of infection correlates with sex work, unprotected sex before pregnancy, and a history of genital injuries in men.

It correlates with sexual promiscuity and in male homosexuals with unprotected anal sex. Several. [00:15:00] Severe prevalence of t Gandhi is higher inflating individuals of either sex than in non-filing controls. Several prevalence is higher in, I don’t like that he uses homosexuals. That’s a sort of outdated word male gaze.

And promiscuous individuals several prevalence is positively correlated with prevalence of STDs across countries, including HIV. Several prevalence is, oh, interesting. That would explain why it’s higher in Africa and potentially why it’s higher in Europe, although I think it might just be sort of co-variant with the urban monoculture or sort of symbiotic.

And we might be seeing this, you know, it makes people less prone to threats so they don’t understand, oh my God, bringing all these people who keep griping people in my country might not be a good idea. It makes it so that you cannot see the threats around you. Right?

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: The gender difference emerges in the 10 to 14 age group and peaks among 20 to 39 year olds. Three studies show this. I’m gonna explain why that’s important right now.

Here is again where I made the mistake that I assumed because it can only transfer [00:16:00] from men to other genders, , or to other men, either men or women, that it would be more prevalent in women. But no, actually the gender imbalance is that it is more prevalent in men than women because even though there are fewer gays and bisexuals, they just have that much more sex and that much more of the type of sex that can lead to transfer.

Malcolm Collins: It doesn’t become more prevalent in women until you hit about 14 years of age IE until when some people begin to become more sexually active. Mm-hmm. Especially sexually promiscuous people. So to continue here, te g Dii seems to have become sexually transmissible through three stages of coevolution with our species entry into a human population, apparently via contact with cats.

This animal began to coexist with humans some 10,000 years ago in the Middle East study passive sexual transmission. Te g DII could now spread to new human hosts via intimate contact, including sex, but without any behavioral modification of the host. Natural selection thus favored adaptation to life within human bodies.

Even though the final stage of the parasites lifecycle, [00:17:00] sexual reproduction remained within cap bodies. Nonetheless, Tigand could evolve through mutations during asexual reproduction and therefore para sexual recombination like events. It’s study active sexual transmission Natural selection increasingly favored sexual transmission by modifying the host behavior.

Again, this evolution may have been speeded up by genetic recombination, was in cat bodies via transmission from human to cats back again. And I’ll note here, while this entered human population 10,000 years ago, I do not think it evolving a specialty for spreading was in human populations really begin to have significant benefits for spread or have an evolutionary reason for it until about the last 40 years because promiscuous sex was just not that common before then.

So wouldn’t have been a, an effective transmission vehicle, nor was male to male sext or bisexual males which seems to be, or at least a normalization of this behavior, which seems [00:18:00] to be of high utility to getting this to spread.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: You can see why the urban monoculture is not talking about all of these studies.

We are only now realizing Thatt Gandhi is sexually transmitted for many, if not most academics. The dominant view is that Tig Gandhi is transmitted mainly through contaminant food or water through contact with cats. Yeah. From this perspective, sexual transmission by male hosts is seen as a minor importance, yet look at the huge gender differentiation.

We basically know it’s definitely in part gender transmitted now

Simone Collins: Well, and if 45% of people in Europe are infected in it, I mean the, the, the pervasive understanding when we were younger, even in our young adulthood was like, well, if you have cats, just use a respirator when you change their litter in the litter box and you’ll be fine.

But no, it’s not a litter box problem.

Malcolm Collins: No. Yeah, so I, I it’s, it is also not just that the fact that the study showed, as I pointed out, that men who are dating or married to a woman was this, have [00:19:00] no higher rate of having it, but women who are dating or married to a man was that have a much higher rate of having it.

Yeah. Is basically, to me all the proof I need that people who practice fellatio have a much higher rate of it than people who don’t practice CIO

Simone Collins: well. But also as if you’re having any form of ejaculated intimacy with a man as a woman, you’re gonna get it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well they gaze do have significantly higher rate of it if they have unprotected sex.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But that’s again, ejaculated. Intimacy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. But I’m basically saying that we have confirmation of this. This isn’t like some weird theory at this point. Yeah. We know it’s being sexually transmitted, and it has adapted to this as one of the primary means of its transmission.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yet it is sufficiently common to distort the sex ratio among infected individuals, apparently through male to male transmission.

In Italy, the prevalence of recent infection was higher in men than in women. A twofold attack rate was detected in males compared to females in the ages of 25 to 35 years.

In Germany. Male gender keeping cats and [00:20:00] BMI were independent risk factors for positivity. Study here. So

Simone Collins: sero positivity. So

Malcolm Collins: wait, Simone, this is actually really important. This means in Germany having cats is not relevant to your probability of catching this.

That is how much it has adapted to a sexual transmission lifestyle with the, that’s

Simone Collins: crazy. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: In the United States, risk for IgG or positivity, that’s Gandhi eye increased with age and was higher in males Jones etal. I, in the case of workers occupationally exposed to animals in meta-analysis of 66 studies found a prevalence of 63% among male workers and 37% among female workers.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and I also wanna point out, because he, he points to seven in the piece and it, I think it’s notable just in terms of how impressive this spread is, is toxoplasmosis does not reproduce in humans.

It can only reproduce in cats. So the way it uses humans is basically a means of getting to the next cat. And it can go from human to [00:21:00] human, so it can go from human to human, it can travel along, but it can’t. Reproduce

Malcolm Collins: actually I think you misunderstood what he was saying. Really. I’m not gonna read this section where he explains this again, but he explains that it has various parts of its reproductive cycle.

It can’t complete its normal reproductive cycle if it’s only using human hosts. But if it’s doing some of the types of asexual reproduction, it does, it can reproduce only in human hosts and you could get a human only specialist variant of it.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay, okay. Okay. I didn’t, I didn’t catch that.

Malcolm Collins: Even though the final stage of the parasites lifecycle, sexual reproduction remained within cap bodies. Nonetheless, Tigand could evolve through mutations during asexual reproduction and therefore para sexual recombination like events.

And we might have already seen that.

Simone Collins: Oh, so it’s not certain. It may have been

Malcolm Collins: happening. It’s not certain that it is human only and it’s reproductive cycle now. But there might be variants of it that are almost human only in the reproductive cycle. Okay. And it very only rarely use cats at this point.

Simone Collins: Mm. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: This is something you find in [00:22:00] some species where you can have asexual reproduction in some environments, but sexual reproduction requires other environments.

Don’t need to go into that. Nonetheless, sexual transmission of tigand DII will likely continue to be downplayed. This is largely due to a research bias towards obvious STDs, IE those which produce symptoms soon after infection and are easily observable and develop over a short time. But these characteristics are not optimal for infection of a long-lived species like ours.

In such species harming the host reduces the prospects of infection of new hosts over a potentially long time. Basically, I just think he’s wrong here about what he’s saying here. He says, the reason we aren’t studying it is because it’s not more loud sort of in its effects over a short period of time.

I think it’s because it would be incredibly damaging to the urban monoculture in many protected groups. If you could be like, Hey, you don’t have a sexuality, you have a disease or a parasite that is controlling you and attempting to use your behavior to affect me or my children or, you know, the, the still unaffected members of society we’re literally going up.[00:23:00]

What, what, what are we, what are we going down here? Some sort of like, slutty zombie virus.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it is, it is actually like, okay, there’s a thing. I mean,

Simone Collins: come on. Classic trope. It’s the, the slutty monster. So, so

Malcolm Collins: good. No, no, no, no. There’s actually like a trope. One of the scenarios that I often see near the tops of AI chatbot sites, which we have, and it’s getting better.

We’re getting closer to having a really solid one, but it’s been really up and down for a while here. Our fab ai, but I don’t know if we have one on our platform. You can make whatever you want, but it’s on a lot of the other platforms is there’s a disease that’s going around that turns people in to like very sexually aggressive like, and that’s all they can think about.

And it’s a, a version of a zombie apocalypse that apparently some people like get off to. And that’s what’s actually happening in our society right now when you’re dealing with these very aggressive sex pets. Okay. Are other parasites messing with our sex lives? T Gandhi might be one of many microorganisms that evolved [00:24:00] to manipulate human behavior.

So, I’m gonna skip a bit here. Let’s go to HIV, right? HIV associated neurocognitive disorders called hand. Although HIV, associated Neurocognitive disorders hand are widely attributed to HIV and the relationship between the two remain circumstantial, in fact, hand occurs even in individuals who have lost all detectable traces of HIV through antiretroviral therapy.

Mm-hmm. So even if you’re on prep, you’re gonna have these brain changes. Wow. One study found that 21% of such individuals nonetheless go on to develop dementia. I didn’t know that study. The causal agent seems to exist as an AIDS co-factor, not by making an HIV infection worse, but by increasing the host’s appetite for behaviors that increase the risk of HIV infection.

Mm-hmm. This co-factor may be hiding in plain sight among opportunistic infections currently blamed for the host compromised immune system. While such infections primarily target the lungs, the brain is the second most common target. And the cites two studies here, [00:25:00] the existence of brain manipulating co-factor is consistent with the profile of AIDS victims study in, Bulgaria, Italy and that co country AIDS is transmitted mainly via intravenous drug use, yet transmission via gaze and bisexuality is 10 times more associated with cognitive impairment.

Oh, interesting. Two studies.

This might be a different, so just so you can understand what he’s saying here, is there maybe a different strain of it that is specialized at transmitting via gaze and bisexuals than it is altering sexual behavior? Certainly AIDS does impair cognition as shown by the association between low white cell camps in hand in the bulia study.

But some co-factor may also be impairing cognition via the gay bisexuality root. The co-factor might be hepatitis C virus, HVH. Oh, he’s arguing. It’s a different thing. He’s arguing. It’s using other diseases to impact your brain. Mm-hmm. Weird. Anyway, HCV in a large cohort of peach was HIV. The risk of hand was higher.

Among [00:26:00] those was antibodies to HCV and then he gives a study here. I’d argue that it might be that there’s just different strains that are specializing in drug users versus gays. By the way, people will say that you cannot get diseases that evolve this quickly in human populations due to our long lifespans, which is just.

Factually wrong. There’s been many species that have specialized in humans. We literally just watched COVID adapt itself through multiple iterations, only over a period of a few years to human hosts. That is why it is so much less virulent and deadly now than it used to be, because it has adapted itself to human hosts.

Anyone who says you a disease cannot quickly adapt its behavior to human hosts is lying to you. When they say, oh, well, it can’t adapt itself to affect human brains because human brains are so complex. It’s like, no. There are lots of complex things that you can affect through fairly simple actions.

Suppose I wanted to affect the behavior of a computer, right? And I could, I only had a fairly simple action. I could throw [00:27:00] sand into one of the components, right? There are a number of components within a computer that I could throw sand into and very confidently affect its behavior in specific ways.

The idea that you can’t affect the human brain by basically throwing sand in different parts of it, and keep in mind it’s not even that bad. It can just create neurotransmitter analogs, which we’ve already seen from some of these parasites. It can create lesions, which we have already measured from this.

Like, I don’t understand how you could argue that unless you’re just desperate to say no one in society is a puppet of a parasite.

Simone Collins: I mean,

Malcolm Collins: okay, let’s talk about sexually transmissible strains of candy acus. This is a, vaginal yeast candy. Oh,

Simone Collins: yeast infections.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that’s, oh, this might’ve been what I was thinking.

Instead of just yeast

Simone Collins: infections.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Candy has been implicated in, so it’s, it’s,

candy has been implicated in several neurodegenerative diseases, notably Alzheimer’s multiple sclerosis and autism spectrum disorders.

Yikes. It just evolves [00:28:00] the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier and adhere to tissue in the central nervous system, particularly white matter. Yeah. Because of the antibody. Cross reactivity. The actual candy species is difficult to identify, though. See, applicants is the main suspect to studies here.

Now, note here, what he’s pointing out here is we know that it can cross the blood brainin barrier and interact with your brain. Okay? That’s, that’s not an easy thing for something like this to do. And it evolved that. Why did it evolve? This ability? Well, it must have wanted to mess with your behavior in some way.

So he says, well, it’s,

Simone Collins: it, it, it’s neurodegenerative.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we know it has that behavior, but that’s probably a side effect of the throwing the sand in the machinery.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, I’m, I’m just thinking about, there was this trend at one point where you women were using their vaginal yeast and recipes, so, trying not to vomit while also wondering if there was some kind of neuro degenerative thing going on.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: Simone, these women already had the neurodegenerative effects. It makes sense when you think about what they were doing.

Simone Collins: Mm, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All right. [00:29:00] Keep in mind that c applicants encompasses many strains that differ substantially from each other in various ways. Single nucleotide polymorphisms, inversions, copy number changes, loss of heterozygosity and the whole, or p partial chromosomal amyloids.

At least one of these changes is responsible for altering the balance between communalism and perh. Agenesis and then he has two studies here. See, ANESS can colonize many body sites, but some strains have adapted specifically to the vagina. If you are responsible for vulva, vagina, canis VVC, commonly known as vaginal yeast infection, which affects 70% to 75% of sexually active women, and at least five to 8% recurrently.

Many give the study here in China, two strains account for almost 60% of all VBC cases with neither being present in extra vaginal sites. He has a study here. Sexual transmission is indicated by several lines of evidence. Once vaginal infection develops, it can spread to male partners [00:30:00] glands or penis via vaginal sex or to his oral cavity via Kana Lingus.

Two studies here, the same strains seem to infect both the vagina and the glands penis. Two studies here in both men and women, genital yeast infections are associated with higher number of sexual partners study here. There seems to have been selection for sexually transmissible, particularly via oral sex.

Vaginal strains adhere better than others. Strains, tooth saliva coated surfaces. Once study here, can

Simone Collins: we just tell our boys to like, not go down on women?

Malcolm Collins: That’s what I would tell ‘em. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Just don’t do it. Don’t do it. No.

Malcolm Collins: Tell our daughters, don’t get into that, that’s bad. You’re gonna become a transmission of diseases anyway, transmission in women to man and not man to man, to woman sorry.

Transmission is from woman to man and not from man to woman. Infected people do not have a higher rate of vaginal sex, but they do have a higher rate of oral sex. Notably Ka [00:31:00] Lingus two studies. So women who get this have a higher rate of wanting ka linguists. Isn’t that wild?

Simone Collins: You know what I’m also thinking though, which I think is, is interesting here is I feel like romantic books are more popular among progressives, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: There they all are also pretty devoid of, we’ll say, normal reproductive sex and riddled with congas.

Malcolm Collins: That

Simone Collins: is true. Could this be a sign of. Selective disease spread within this particular group where like they’re quite obsessed and fixated on men going down on them because it really shows up disproportionately in these books to the point where, yeah, you were never sexually

Malcolm Collins: promiscuous and you’ve always hated

Simone Collins: the idea.

Yeah, and I, I just, I, I, I find it interesting ‘cause I also find it very perplexing when like, there’s supposed to be like, there’s supposed to be romance novels and, and one would assume that there would be sex in [00:32:00] romance novels and there’s. Beyond men going down on women, not any. And that just was really confusing, that fascinating

Malcolm Collins: theory here.

I wanna give you another theory.

Simone Collins: Okay?

Malcolm Collins: After a woman has been cooked, like one of these women goes out there, spends their whole life sleeping around, dedicates their life to the urban monoculture, then they get old, they don’t find a partner. Then they surround themselves with cats to complete the breeding cycle.

This is not, we should accomplished what more, but for making them undesirable. Childless

Simone Collins: cat ladies,

Malcolm Collins: which

Simone Collins: disease?

Malcolm Collins: The behavior of acquiring tons of cats. The cat ladies are literally just breeding sites of toxic plasmosis after it cooks their brain.

Simone Collins: Right? So women went from being tools of the patriarchy to tools of the,

Malcolm Collins: of the parasite.

Simone Collins: The, the fe anarchy. The, yeah. No, not even that. Not even the cats. But the parasites of the cats that the lowest of the low. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: When you, you talk to these [00:33:00] people, you’d be like, I don’t have to listen to a host like your host. Like Mindset is getting

Simone Collins: to me

Malcolm Collins: right

Simone Collins: now. They traded the patriarchy, which is built civilization for.

A cat parasite

Malcolm Collins: for No, yeah, A cat parasite to help breed a cat parasite.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. That’s crazy. That’s wild.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. We need to start calling cat ladies the host.

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: you cannot allow the host to breathe. Like when they come near you, you’ve gotta like hide your face a bit, you know, like,

Simone Collins: yes. Oh man.

Malcolm Collins: Alright.

See applicants in the male partners oral cavity does not predict recurrence of VVC in female partners. Study and treatment of the male partner with antifungals does not prevent recurrence of VVC in the female partners. Two studies. It looks as if the parasite is acting on the female partner, specifically on her sexual behavior by weakening her inhibitions and motivating her to encourage.

In vaginal contact with the male partner’s body, particularly his mouse infection seems to proceed in three [00:34:00] stages. One, colonization of the vagina as commensal with low virulence and no VVC potentially for long period of related latency. Two colonization of the brain sites that influence sexual behavior.

And three, activation of the most virulent stage I-E-V-V-C when the pathogen can now spread to the male partner. And keep in mind, the end state of this is you know, Alzheimer’s, mo squirrel, you know, various forms of, of neurodegenerative disease. I think it’s Parkinson’s. Like, it’s not good. You’re, you’re cooking your brain.

It’s, it’s cooking your brain because it doesn’t care about you living forever. I mean, after when you’re an old person and you’re only having sex with other people who are about to die, you’ve, you’ve gone out of its lifecycle. Its lifecycle is, use you for sleeping around when you’re young. Use you for cats when you’re middle age.

It’s like this collection of diseases. And then dispose of you. All right. Let’s get to multiple sclerosis here. Oh, no. This disease can cause lesions throughout the nervous system, but a recurring symptom is an impairment of social cognition through damage of the limbic system, particularly the amygdala.

[00:35:00] For studies here, as we have seen with cheek ondy eye, this brain region is PRI primary target of manipulation of behavior. Multiple sclerosis. MS appears to be associated with a fungal parasite that infiltrates the brain and nervous system, perhaps a form of coni in people with ms. The association is indicated by antibodies against candy species.

So I didn’t know this by the way, so, so. If you have ms, you’re gonna have higher levels of antibodies against the candy species. High levels of immune defense, proteins that bind to manna proteins which are ubiquitous in fungal cell walls, but rare in bacterial or mammalian cell walls, high levels of chito days, which the immune system produces to destroy chitin, a component of fungal cell walls, but not a bacterial or mammal cell walls.

Successful treatment of MS with fungicide derin from, this is one study that showed this MS seems to be sexually transmitted. It is rare before purity, but two to three times more common in women more [00:36:00] commonly in women taking oral contraceptives and associated with smoking a sociological marcher of sexual activity in women.

By the way, you know what my mom used to say about women who smoke?

Simone Collins: Wait. If women smoke, they’re also more likely to be sexually active.

Malcolm Collins: Do you know what my mom used to say about women who smoked?

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: she, all the time when I was growing up. Okay. When she, she was like, oh, you know, if you wanna hit on women, always remember if she smokes, she pokes.

Simone Collins: She just had the best wine,

Malcolm Collins: basically. I love it. We’re just going over all my mom’s offensive, you know, now that she’s not alive anymore and doesn’t watch the podcast every day she doesn’t know that I’m now telling you all of her secret wisdoms. Which, which turned out to be largely true like lesbian.

We’re

Simone Collins: quoting her in our house every day.

Malcolm Collins: Bisexual. If she smokes, she pokes.

Simone Collins: And what did she also say about girls and second dates though? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, she said if a woman has not slept with you or gone down on you by the third date, she’s playing around dumper. And I will note [00:37:00] this is actually kind of true, even if you’re the type who’s likely gonna get married to somebody.

Mm. Unless you’re within a community where almost nobody sleeps around because like Simone, you had slept with me by, what was it, date four?

Simone Collins: No, no, no, no. I have it in our calendar. It was Yuri’s night when we

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But it wasn’t that long into our dating, even though I was the first person you slept with, it was still only like week two of dating or week three of dating.

Simone Collins: No, no, no, no. It was, I can check the dates if you want.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that doesn’t help much because we lived literally two and a half hours apart, so we

Simone Collins: didn’t I know it, it was, yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult. But yeah, no, it, I mean like, I was ready to, I’m like, I was on a mission. I’d fall in love and had my heart broken in one year.

It’s not like I was waiting. So,

Malcolm Collins: But the point being is, is she, she, she didn’t have these opinions ‘cause she was very conservative. I’ll note that. Yes. She was, she was like very, for example.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because she had a friend who was gay who died of AIDS when she was young. You know, back when that was a thing.

So she was part of like that generation of pro gay culture. Your mom,

What? Yeah, my mom. Yeah. [00:38:00] By the way speaking of, I have seen this comedian and he made this point that I had never thought of before and I’m wanna move to this, which is to say when people are like, oh, are you only pro LGB? And not t I’m like, no, I’m just pro-gay.

Okay.

Simone Collins: That’s true.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I look lesbians are just gays. If you sleep with the same sex, sometimes you’re just gay. Gay bisexual is just a subcategory of gay. Can we just go back to being, defending gay rights instead of all this other nonsense. But even that, I now have to question given all of the, because I didn’t know that there was any like really negative effects.

If we’re getting a species and, and if this is happening, if we’re getting species that recently have adopted to use same sex attracted populations as part of their lifecycle and are altering human behavior in a way that’s maladaptive this might mean that I would be significantly stricter with my kids and I will be, because of this information about saying you really probably shouldn’t engage in [00:39:00] same sex behavior, even if that’s something that you’re into.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I sort of like, I, I don’t, I, I feel very conflicted about, I mean, gay figures throughout history have contributed quite a lot to culture, to religion, to fashion.

Malcolm Collins: I agree with that, but the, the larger thing is, is in history, when they did this, it was still considered a kink. It wasn’t considered part of their identity.

It was considered not, you mean

Simone Collins: these days, and we still have great gay contributors to

Malcolm Collins: society. Right? Right. The point I’m making is if you consider being gay, just another kink that you should probably not engage with, but some people will. Oh. So if, if you go back to these periods where you have these great gay contributions, you know, if you’re, if you’re talking about like the late medieval period or something like that, or, or Renaissance period you know, being gay was considered like having a fart fetish or like, you know, wanting to be whipped or something like that, right?

Mm-hmm. Like it was considered like a weird thing that you certainly wouldn’t consider part of your [00:40:00] identity and you probably shouldn’t make like a full-time thing. Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Not yet, not your identity. And now it’s like, oh. Like,

Malcolm Collins: but the point I’m making here is if we are now getting iterations of parasites that are adapted to spread within humans in ways that they weren’t before.

Mm. Like one of the things that I’ve said is when people can be like, oh, you know, would you tell your kid to not engage in same sex behavior during the AIDS epidemic? Like, I 100% would have, I don’t care that they’re same sex attractive. It had, it could lead to their death. You know, I’d be like. Yeah.

You know, being exercising a a a degree of restraint is more important than dying of aids, right? Like, the, the, the environmental context that we’re in there are things that are more important in life than engaging in whatever arouses you.

Simone Collins: But I think, I mean, it’s for the way we’re gonna be talking with our kids about it, it’s not even really about gay stuff as much as like basically any non reproductive sex is a sin anyway.

Like, just focusing on pleasure at all is [00:41:00] something. So it’s hardly like we’re, oh, watch out for the gay stuff. I mean, anyone who, who’s having sex for fun period, we’re like, I don’t know, man. We haven’t even gone into priorities

Malcolm Collins: yet, so let’s

Simone Collins: finish multiple. Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Malcolm Collins: . It is also associated with herpes simplex virus. Two, two studies. No, they were talking here about the multiple sclerosis. Unlike the unknown parasite that may cause hand, this one begins doing harm early in adulthood at around 30 years of age, perhaps because this is when female hosts tend to abandon the multi-partner lifestyle.

Consequently, the parasite no longer has anything to gain from keeping the host healthy. This the mean age of onset for MS has nonetheless risen in recent decades. Two studies. So this could be the case of women staying promiscuous for longer. Mm-hmm. So basically the disease that leads to multiple sclerosis basically has an evolutionary pressure to try to keep away the really damaging stuff it’s doing to your brain until after you’ve left this promiscuous phase of your life.

Simone Collins: Yeah, once, once you’re no longer useful to it, it

Malcolm Collins: just, and it’s like [00:42:00] whatever. I can just screw up the rest of your brain at this point. But it’s otherwise modifying behavior before this. Okay, well

Simone Collins: then you just gotta keep slutting it up.

Malcolm Collins: Now we’re gonna get really offensive, exclusive male gayness. More than two decades ago, Greg Cochran argued for the existence of a quote unquote gay germ, IEA pathogen that reorients male sexual preference to increase the number of hosts it can infect via sexual relations study.

Here he ruled out genetic causes because of the high fitness cost of exclusive male gayness, and its I readability of only 20%. Instead, the cause may be a pathogen that targets the limbic system. Quote Indeed. Anecdotal reports indicate that changes in human sexual orientation have occurred following changes in limbic area due to trauma or infection.

In quote, the pathogen may be exploiting a niche that provides more opportunities for sexual transmission. Quote gay behavior could facilitate spread because of larger numbers of partners who, who are gay males may on average have [00:43:00] a relative to wait. Oh, could it? So, so basically they’re arguing here in this study that’s being cited here.

That the reason why gays have more partners than straight males or women or gay women is because parasites are using them to spread. I disagree with this. I think it’s because they’re males and males are just way sluttier and hornier. And if during my period when I wasn’t the person I am today and was much more slutty, if women were as slutty as me, if the part sex I was interested to was as slutty as me, I would’ve been having even more sex.

So I think that that’s what causes that. But, but it could be a partial thing here, right? This theory has received new support from a recent discovery that the gut microbiome is different in men who have sex with men. Specifically, there are fewer commensal bacteria that help repair and preserve the intestinal lining.

Perhaps an invasive pathogen destroys them in order to facilitate its entry into the body. Although this change in gut microbiome seems to pave the way for HIV infection, having been in fact discovered through AIDS research, HIV itself does not [00:44:00] seem to be responsible. There are three studies that show this, so yikes.

We know that the gut microbiome is different. Could it be something in the gut microbiome or some other thing that’s within the microbiome of gay people that is in part leading to same sex attraction? And then I think back to many of the studies or just anecdotal of the accounts I hear of gay people where they had, ‘cause I have many friends who are gay.

They have some young experience that is gay. Early in their sexual sort of awakening. Think like Milo And his experience was that Catholic priest. Right. Okay. And then he tried to re-contextualize it as, no, it’s okay. I was gay. He helped me sexually awaken. Could it be that he literally just infected him with a disease?

It caught

Simone Collins: the

gayness,

Malcolm Collins: it trans, there’s a reason why nobody wants to talking about this stuff. Right? Think about the Harvey Milk thing when he specifically, this could also be while you have this unusual preference for,

Simone Collins: no wait, I don’t know the Harvey what? Harvey Milk.

Malcolm Collins: Harvey Milk. Famous gay guy, you know, terminal named after him

.

[00:45:00] He famously had a preference for underage boys. Oh. Specifically one of his partners was 16 when they started dating. Oh, okay. And that’s when he began to adopt the gay lifestyle. Oh. And then he the Harvey Milk dumped him as soon as he, you know, a aged into legal sex age. ‘cause he wasn’t interested in aot in men at that age.

Got a, got a new, you know, 15, 16-year-old. And then the guy ended up unliving himself. A reporter told Harvey Milk that he was planning to unli himself and Harvey Milk told him. Well then basic, something along the lines, I’m paraphrasing here. Tell him not to make a mess when he does. Oh

Simone Collins: Lord.

Malcolm Collins: Genuinely, one of the most monstrous people in human history. I cannot believe that gays are mad that Trump changed one of our, do you know, one of our battleships was named after him. Huh? Trump changed it. And, and a lot of the gay community was like freaking out and like,

Simone Collins: well, San Francisco International Airport nevertheless gave him a terminal.

So when God closes worship, he gives you a terminal.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Cuckold fetish. Okay, let’s into this.

Simone Collins: Oh

Malcolm Collins: boy. Other pathogens may be responsible for certain paraphilias, such as a cuckold fetish, where a may host abandons mate guarding [00:46:00] and even feels pleasure at the prospects of being cuckolded. This fet

This

Simone Collins: could explain something, Scott, because we’re so confused by this.

Right? Like it’s one of the most popular fetishes, and yet it’s so, so,

Malcolm Collins: oh, hold on. This is gonna blow your mind because I wasn’t aware of this.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Remember I said that almost any fetish you see today, you see across history. Yeah. I, I mentioned you see fart fetishes. You see sadomasochism.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Not true of cuck holding.

He knows here that cuck holding fetish was absent from Greco-Roman literature, which nonetheless attest to a wide range of alternative sexualities. Mm-hmm. The earliest references come from the 17th century England, particularly among English merchants. The class that would’ve caught it first if it had recently evolved somewhere,

Simone Collins: ULA la.

Ooh,

Malcolm Collins: this likely evolved recently. Whatever the parasite was that was causing this,

Simone Collins: and now it’s taking us over. Yeah, because it’s so, you wouldn’t evolve to have

Malcolm Collins: this also before, like I don’t understand it. I don’t understand it. I don’t understand it. The Dayton Malu point to an external source, most likely slaves imported through the trade from West [00:47:00] Africa because the region’s high polygeny rate conditions were ideal for the evolution of the TD that can spread from one polygenist household to another by inhibiting or even inversing male sexual jealousy.

Remember we talked about sexual arousal pathways working through an inversion system of something that Oh, yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So a disease that would flip the sign.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. See our video on how human sexuality actually works as one of our, or read our book on that. Because you are being lied to about what the data says.

Sexuality is like a, a study that basically stopped in the eighties ‘cause everyone was afraid of what the data said. And we go into the real data and the book only sells for like a dollar on Amazon. So give us a nice review. ‘cause those Amazon reviews are really hard to get. Yeah. Keep in mind that the barriers to transmission were already low.

On one hand, the head of a household was generally an older man who could not satisfy all his wives. On the other, the, the latter were often solicited by young single men as inevitably happens in polygamous societies. Frost 2023. So he’s showing here that actually you see this behavior in polygamous [00:48:00] societies, it would make sense.

It would really help spread a parasite or virus or bacteria or yeast. You know, who knows? A note here this point was made by anthropologist Pierre von de bagel beige, the, and we’re quo, the anthropologist here. The temporary celibacy of young men in polygamous societies is rarely absolute. However, while it often postpones the establishment of a stable para bond and the procreation of children, it often does not preclude dalliances with unmarried girls, adultery with younger wives of older men, or the grape or seduction of women conquered in warfare.

Thus, what sometimes looks like temporary celibacy is in fact temporary promiscuity. And then he c sipes a study here polygamous households were thus vulnerable to any STD that could overcome the already low barriers to entry. Once this behavioral niche was colonized, selection favored those streams that could lower the barriers even more.

And then merchants. Particularly in like the slave trade or, or around the slave trade [00:49:00] or frequenting brothels that kept enslaved women from these cultures mm-hmm. Would then catch this and spread this throughout society and this modern cut cold fetish comes from literally a disease. That’s

Simone Collins: crazy.

I mean, honestly, that’s the best explanation I’ve had so far. ‘cause otherwise,

Malcolm Collins: no. And the reason why I buy this explanation so strongly is because one, there’s not a lot of other good explanations. Two, he’s right. As somebody who’s actually studied historic literature, I haven’t seen this from before, this 17th century.

Simone Collins: So you know what? Is because I’ve been trying to research an episode on this too. And also it shows up in other bits of episode research I’ve been doing. Like when I did the Johannesburg episode Right. And I was, I was just looking at, at subreddits for Johannesburg, one of the There’s more

Malcolm Collins: coupling

Simone Collins: behavior.

Yeah. With swingers. And just like people looking to share their wives Also when I was doing actual research on the cuckold episode that you encouraged me to start doing a lot of military people are doing it and I’m like, why is it that like it’s catching on within these like more tightly [00:50:00] knits, like geographically or logistically sub communities.

But there you go. I mean, it could be

Malcolm Collins: yes. And more than that why is it that as I have seen more sexually promiscuous men men who you think would be able to capture more women best,

Simone Collins: whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They seem to be more into it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh, crazy. Right? And

Malcolm Collins: what does this mean? The very last thing you should ever do.

Is be a bowl for a cup cold. Which, which by the way is, is bad

Simone Collins: because bowl Oh, is the bowl the one that because that’s good because then you’re gonna end up into it, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: You’re

Malcolm Collins: gonna catch the disease literally. It’s literally a disease that’s honey trapping you.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Wow. Yikes. I’ll make

Malcolm Collins: you the today bull. Tomorrow be the, today’s

Simone Collins: bull Is tomorrow’s cook a yay. This is crazy. This is crazy.

Malcolm Collins: This is actually [00:51:00] crazy. I am so glad. That was all of the sex I had when I was younger. I can

Simone Collins: virgins

Malcolm Collins: I don’t seem, yeah, well, so that what Simone mentioned there, and this was like my thing, I had a strong preference for virgins.

I, I really find it quite gross knowing when a woman has slept with other people. So almost everyone. I, well not everyone, it was like a good quarter of the people I slept with were virgins. And then other than that, they’d only slept with like one other person or something, which is probably why I didn’t catch these things.

Simone Collins: My goodness.

Malcolm Collins: Or at least in regards to what arouses me, it would appear that I did not catch these things. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I was, well, I was reading ‘cause I only read the beginning of this article and then had to get back to work. I was like, well, how do I test if you or I have toxoplasmosis? Like, how, how would we even know, you know?

Malcolm Collins: We don’t seem to show a lot of the behaviors that I would associate with it. But we could that,

Simone Collins: that, that, that I’m not very easygoing. And you’re not into PDSM, so between,

Malcolm Collins: well, I mean, I’m not I mean, I would say the things that arouse me would fall into categories of BDSM.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But no, no. [00:52:00] BDSM is like, gotta get the gear.

You’re into dominance. You’re not into BDSM.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it’s true.

Simone Collins: BDSM is about procedures and rules and hierarchy and accessories. And you are, you are so not into any of that.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I don’t, you

Simone Collins: can’t handle it

Malcolm Collins: anyway, to continue here. I’m skipping a bit because

Simone Collins: what, what, the one thing you cannot handle is any talk about logistics or rules or steps.

Malcolm Collins: I know. I hate it. I hate it. Anyway, to continue here. We’re going from the end paragraphs here. Specifically, we can look for decoy surface molecules. Such decoys mimic the surface molecules by pathogens to enter a cell while not allowing them to enter. An example in humans is C-E-A-C-A-M three, which mimics the normal surface molecule for C-E-A-C-A M1.

It is fast evolving apparently because it has been convergent. Co-evolving with certain pathogens. The latter evolve it to avoid this surface molecule while in turn evolves to bind the pathogen even more in the sites to study [00:53:00] here As such decoy specifically produced by our, sorry, he says are such decoy specifically produced by our neural tissues.

Evolutionary psychologist, Marco Degi is skeptical about the possibility that behavioral manipulating parasites have adopted to human bodies. Notably because we have large, complex brains, with redundancy and because we are much larger than microbes and can thus invest more metabolically encounter measures to fight them.

I basically already said, this is just silly you, we are obviously. Obviously susceptible to this stuff. On the other hand, he goes on to say, we have much longer gestation times than many other behavioral manipulating parasites currently known. IE we live much longer than something like a cat, which, and we know that they increase the amount, they affect our behavior over time which we seem to see across these parasites.

The latter, thus has a co-evolutionary advantage. It can outmaneuver our, our countermeasures faster than we can evolve. New ones very true. Humans evolve very [00:54:00] slowly. So even if we large, are large and evolved we have our countermeasures can’t update. And more important than that, we just probably haven’t been exposed to this stuff for very long.

He goes. Our large complex brains often create more opportunities for manipulation. Then again, the very largeness of our brains works in our favors. We can create so much neural redundancy that the parasite has to pull too many switches in too many places to produce a substantial effects. But the thing is, is that the, the, the parasite doesn’t care about pulling too many switches in too many places.

This might be what’s causing multiple sclerosis. It has decades to do this to you. It is living in your body, right? That’s just comically wrong. And he says, finally, we have another advantage. We can fight parasites through cultural rules and prohibitions, rules against sexuality, promiscuity, and non-VA sex may reflect a vague awareness that the sex act can transmit not only through semen, but also sorry, unwanted semen, but also free writers.

And then he cites two studies here, and I note [00:55:00] here. Our guide, the Pragmatist gu guide to Creating Religion or Crafting Religion could talks about this, it talks about how evolutionary pressures like this. This would’ve been an evolutionary pressures on the early evolutionary early evolution of religion may have affected what religions ultimately became.

Mm-hmm. And the behavioral sets of these religions. Fascinating. That the fact that we dropped these and we ended up creating these sort of nest beds of perhaps even immunocompromised pools because diseases evolved much faster in immunocompromised pools. Here I’m talking about the early gay aids population here.

That was very promiscuous. We may have created the perfect test beds for these new types of behavioral manipulating parasites and diseases and viruses to evolve. And our scientists are basically not allowed to study them because, oh my God, if they did, wouldn’t that be naughty? And we found out that certain [00:56:00] individual’s behavior was not a you know, an inborn preference, but a parasite.

Hmm. That polyamory may not even be a preference. It may be a parasite. The very fact that you may not care that your partner is sleeping with other people, which among our ancestors would’ve been a very bad thing for males. Something external might have to be modifying you to make you have this very evolutionarily maladaptive preference.

And I love it that, that progressives are the now ones who don’t believe in evolution. By the way, you want more like this? Check out Peter Frost Substack. Yeah. Thoughts.

Simone Collins: Our, our sex ed for our kids has just changed a lot. Which is crazy. This

Malcolm Collins: is one of the most impactful things I have ever covered on this show.

Simone Collins: This is why I love the Basecamp community. We get, we get these amazing emails, just like, well check this out, and then our minds get blown and then we get to share it with other people. It turns out it’s, I

Malcolm Collins: thought you knew about human [00:57:00] sexuality

Simone Collins: was rough. Seriously. Seriously. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: And there’s a lot of evidence is the other thing for this.

Yeah. Oof.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like to me, I don’t even take this as a theory. I take it as confirmed and I know why it’s been covered up.

Simone Collins: Well, and it’s, it’s also just one of those things where it makes sense, you know? It, it, it would make sense there. There’s, there’s a means, a motive, an opportunity,

Malcolm Collins: a means, a motive, an opportunity.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, guys I would say

Simone Collins: that stop having sex. Everyone stop.

Malcolm Collins: Everyone’s tired. It changes, it changes so many things. It changes sex ed for my kids. Mm-hmm. This would’ve been so much more effective on me as a kid. If somebody was like, if you have, oh my gosh. Yeah. A parasite will take over your body, control your mind the rest of your life, and then eventually discard you.

Simone Collins: It’s invasion of the body snatchers. It’s terrifying.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There are literal body snatchers out there that are going to attempt to seduce you. Uhhuh steal yourself,

Simone Collins: like literally seduce you. Yeah. Ooh. Oof. [00:58:00]

Malcolm Collins: Two. It changes my perspective of our enemies, that there might be actual biological actors out there, parasites that are co-evolving with the urban monoculture and the urban monoculture benefits from spreading the affection because, for example, say toxoplasmosis, it lowers people’s awareness of threats and a lower awareness of threats increases.

And we’ve seen this in voting behavior, a willingness to vote Democrat.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And not seeing the obvious threats that we’re importing into our country.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know, the, the great like grape gangs, they can hear about these and be, and, and that these are actively being covered up or, or have actual politicians just walk up and be like, yes, we want to replace ex population, or something like that.

And note here, I’m not, I’m talking about, I’m talking about like zero Manny’s actual election speech. Right? Like, I’m not like being a, we’re talking about literally Hillary Clinton saying that’s why we need large immigrant ways. See video on his Hillary what Clinton a great replacement theorist.

Mm-hmm. [00:59:00] That people’s threat response isn’t alerted to This shows that these two communities work hand in glove. Mm-hmm. And, and again, here, I’m not noting I have any allusions to this. I of course do not believe that any, there’s any agenda around replacing people. I’m just saying it’s weird that Zohan Malani and Hillary Clinton think that like.

I love you, Simone. Thank you. Our fans, and great episode. Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I’m grateful for this tip. Really good stuff. Everyone. Keep the good ideas coming.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And like, and subscribe if this episode was cool for you. Yes.

Simone Collins: We’ll continue to

Malcolm Collins: power the web for the information you need to know.

Mm.

Simone Collins: All right. [01:00:00] All right.

Malcolm Collins: Was so surprised that today’s episode did so poorly.

Simone Collins: I, I Sometimes the algo gods just don’t like us.

Malcolm Collins: It was the episode on Muslims not liking dogs. But I suspect yeah, actually, dunno, it could, it could be that YouTube was trying to, like, it was, it’s like, oh, this episode is anti-Muslim.

Simone Collins: I mean,

Malcolm Collins: we need to suppress,

Simone Collins: there’s nothing exactly flattering. That’s in that episode, so.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you know, they wouldn’t do that for you know. Well, okay, so by the way, did you watch more of that, that girl’s videos who I sent you?

Simone Collins: Yes. I just, as we were about to start this, I was in the middle of her episode on some animal crossing thing.

Yeah. I’m delighted.

Malcolm Collins: Hold on. I’ll just pull up her name now so I can tell her fans because I like, I do not know how, I was never recommended her videos. Yeah, she’s delightful. [01:01:00] Fa Wait, wait, sorry. I kind watching them. What’s her name

Simone Collins: again? I was talking over you. What’s her name again?

Malcolm Collins: Frankie Faye. And she does the I mean, I had heard of it before.

I think the like bad art critic or something. But it is, it is exactly up my alley. It’s, it’s like weird online subculture, anthropology without a lot of moralizing or bias.

Simone Collins: Yeah, just, just delight in the weirdness of the internet and humanity. That is what we want. It is what she serves. She’s doing God’s work.

Malcolm Collins: That’s what I’m here for. Yes, absolutely.

Simone Collins: Yes. Mm-hmm. So recommendation of the day, Frankie Faye.

Malcolm Collins: What did, what did

Simone Collins: fans, and she has a ton of watches on her videos. It’s not like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, like why wasn’t I being recommended this? Why weren’t you like Simone and I have the same

Simone Collins: algorithm. How can we know about Strange Aons and how can we know about, what’s the name of the clown girl?

Malcolm Collins: I dunno. She puts like tons of clown music on, she’s, she’s

Simone Collins: Australian and she puts on clown makeup and talks

Malcolm Collins: about, but I like literally now that I’ve watched Frankie Faye, I like Frankie Faye [01:02:00] Better than Strange Aons or Clown Face Girl, stop.

Simone Collins: Don’t come for strange Aons. She’s wonderful.

Malcolm Collins: No, the problem is is strange Aons.

Is better. She’s better than clown face girl. Clown face girl is good. But the problem is, is clown face, girl is way too urban. Monoculture cooked, strange. Aons is like the gay,

Simone Collins: I think she goes into more detail than I want, or sometimes she just chooses things that aren’t that interesting. Not that salacious

Malcolm Collins: by the way, the very best, but he just doesn’t produce videos much in this category.

If you want to go into it is down the rabbit hole. He

Simone Collins: doesn’t Oh, down the rabbit hole’s. Great.

Malcolm Collins: But

Simone Collins: he also did that really, really long one on the hery gurdy. Like he doesn’t always do internet stuff. He’ll just do stuff on like, here’s this random instrument that I’m obsessed with. But he did a really did he did, he did furries.

He did fur comedy, right? Yeah, he’s

Malcolm Collins: done some furry ones.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, he’s done a lot of internet stuff, but he is also done a lot of just, I mean, not that I didn’t enjoy the, the hurdy gerdy history, but I also didn’t,

Malcolm Collins: I didn’t watch that one. Anyway,

Simone Collins: I’ll get, I did in solidarity. You have to get to show your support.

Give some [01:03:00] views. Malcolm G. Well,

Malcolm Collins: there’s one small one that I wanna recommend that did a great one on the husband hotel incident, but I’d have to find it again

, because I was so surprised when I watched it. I was like, this is as good as any of the others I watched. But I only have like 10,000 views.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. We should. Something to do a round up of, of our favorite

Malcolm Collins: YouTube literally every morning for her and me. It’s like, Hey, did you watch Asthma Gold this morning?

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s always gold this

Malcolm Collins: morning. What’d

Simone Collins: you asma? Gold gets me outta bed, man. Like, that’s, that’s the, you know, and you’re like, I just, I don’t wanna do the day he has woken up by the smell of a rotting.

Dead. That’s, that’s feeling I’m woken up by his stream for

Malcolm Collins: so many of our fans is the thing that they talk about when they’re like dating or in a, in a marriage, which is great. You know? Oh

Simone Collins: yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. Like that, that, that the thing that, that keeps otherwise isolated marital partnerships from going stale is consuming content and discussing it’s, it’s like what ongoing university classes are.

I think that’s what a lot of people miss about school [01:04:00] is that you would read Plato’s Republic and then you’d go discuss it in class, and now I get to do that, but with a whole bunch of internet nonsense instead. And class is just someone you actually really love instead of a bunch of really basic on educated young people.

So it’s great.

[01:05:00]

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the complex relationship between Muslim cultures and dogs, exploring the historical, religious, and cultural roots behind attitudes toward canines in Islamic societies. The discussion covers everything from ancient scripture and medieval city life to modern controversies, including the case of Hassan Piker and his treatment of dogs.

The conversation unpacks how religious texts, urbanization, and evolving public health practices shaped perceptions of dogs, and contrasts these with Western and Jewish cultural attitudes. Along the way, the hosts examine broader questions about cultural compatibility, identity, and the ways in which traditions influence modern behavior.

Whether you’re interested in history, religion, cultural analysis, or current events, this episode offers a thought-provoking look at how something as simple as dog ownership can reveal deep societal differences. Join the conversation in the comments and let us know your thoughts!

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share if you enjoy the discussion.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] the Young Turks exiled 30,000 to 80,000 Istanbul strays to an island where most died.. Now, fun fact here. This is Turkey that we’re talking about again, the country where he lived. But did you know who has a show called The Young Turks?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: St. Er, his uncle, so to say, that St. Er was willing to lionize a group systematically genocide, and 30,000 to 80,000 dogs in Istanbul. Right?

Simone Collins: Oh my goodness.

Malcolm Collins: That this is the environment that Hassan would’ve grown up in. Now his behavior and perspective towards dogs makes more sense.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am excited to be here today. Today we are gonna be discussing something that might be a lot deeper of a topic than our fans might expect, which is why do Muslims like torturing dogs?

Um, What?

Hold on. [00:01:00] We need to, because people might think I am being like wild here or something like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or, so,

Simone Collins: well, I remember when you did something similar with Jews and dogs, and then even like a bunch of Jews that we spoke with were like, no, Jews are fine with dogs. And you’re like, what about this and what about this? And they’re like, oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: Definitely. I had no idea that my culture was historically pretty an antagonistic to dogs.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So I, I’m in that way. I’m not surprised. I’m like, well, yes, surprised me with the Jews. Bring it on with the Muslims, but what.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so let’s go to scripture before we go further, because we’re gonna be tying this into the whole son Piker situation. Oh, okay. For example, in Sahi Muslim quote, the messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs and then said, what about.

Them IE about the other dogs. And then granted concession to keep the dogs for hunting and the dog for security of the herd. And said, when the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times and rub it with earth the eighth time. Some narration, even specify harsher views, like quote, [00:02:00] kill all the dogs except those used for hunting and herding in quote or labeling black dogs as devils.

These may stem from a seventh century incident in Medina, where the prophet ordered a killing of stray dogs to control a rabies outbreak, sparing the working dogs. Scholars like Imam Malik founder of the Malik School, interpret this. He leniently allowing dogs and homes for protection while others like Imam Shafi restrict them more strictly.

So, what I’m pointing out here is this is not a a light thing. They have scripture telling them that they have a religious mandate. To kill every dog that is not being used for herding or active home protection. And some even restrict us further to just herding and hunting dogs. That,

Simone Collins: that makes sense though, to a certain extent, like considering how dangerous wild dogs can be.

Well, especially

Malcolm Collins: if you have

Simone Collins: a rabies

Malcolm Collins: outbreak in a medieval city.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, I mean, we always talk about culture, having practical safety and health implications and this, this [00:03:00] makes sense. And also even the whole washing thing. You know, when you have rabies, like you spit is absolutely one way that that can be transferred if you’re not necessarily being bitten, if you,

Malcolm Collins: exactly.

Simone Collins: So that, that also makes a lot of sense. I’m additionally entertained that perhaps even before the Black Cat is bad luck thing happened.

Malcolm Collins: Dogs

Simone Collins: are Devil did it first and it was a black dog. Yeah. That, that, what is it with black? Sometimes pet animals. Huh? Like, why? Why are we afraid of those ones?

Malcolm Collins: A lot of this is downstream of Muslim populations, which we’re living in, and we’ll talk about this a bit more later in larger urban environments than Europeans were, which is why Europeans didn’t develop a hatred of dogs.

In the same way that Muslims did, because most Muslims and Jews lived in dense urban settlements earlier. Mm. And in larger numbers, especially in their sense of, so dogs

Simone Collins: are not a, a steady thing. Dogs,

Malcolm Collins: dogs are not for urban specialist [00:04:00] populations. But what is really interesting here and we’ll go over the evolution of this hatred of dogs that Muslims have is how this has sort of spilled out through the Hassan Piker thing.

Because you look at Hassan Piker, so. For people who don’t know, Hassan Piker is the number one leftist Twitch streamer. He’s a, grew up incredibly privileged, but is now pretending to be poor. Dad ran a $4 billion company like I would be damn,

Simone Collins: I didn’t know it was that privilege.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, it was a, yeah, it was very big.

If, if, if it’s just such a joke that he pretends to have struggled at points in his life. But anyway, so Hassan Piker, he, for people who are unfamiliar with his controversy, I’ll just give you the high notes. It turns out that he bought like the, the single most expensive dog breed you can buy and then was worth Yeah.

Speaker 10: Would look at these majorly imposing dogs. Makes it easy to understand why they are the most expensive dog breed in the world with their long shaggy mains. These guys [00:05:00] really do look.

Side note, he, uh, pretends that he got it for free off of Craigslist from somebody who didn’t want it anymore. This is like actually ludicrous, like somebody driving around in a Ferrari and being like, oh, I just got this on Craigslist. Somebody was moving and didn’t want it anymore.

Malcolm Collins: To sit in the corner of his room. So it was always on frame while he was streaming. And whenever it attempted to move, he was shocking. It. While he has denied that, he was shocking it, the evidence from the. Images of the shot color on the doll,

the images of the shot color he showed, and then matching that shot color with images of shot colors from product pages.

We can tell exactly what color it was. It was not a rumble color, as he has said. You can change the resolution and see that he put tape over it. He friend. Who went over to see the collar said the prongs were removed and he put tape over it even though he has denied that that’s what happened. You know, couldn’t keep the story straight there.

There are odds, evidence of other people complaining that the collar is too [00:06:00] tight, which shows that you know, you would need that if you’re dealing with a shot collar and you’ve got a furry dog. There have since come up pictures of him putting. Inside Spike collars like a collar with spikes, but facing inwards towards the dog’s neck.

Was his previous dog him yanking on his previous dog’s tail, which can dislocate their spine. Him having an open wound on one of his previous

Hassan: Stay. If you run right now, I’ll kill you. Like I’ll actually kill you. Okay? In front of everyone. .

Come here.

Malcolm Collins: dog’s neck from wearing spiked collars no, he’s a really monster person when it comes to dogs. What’s

Simone Collins: the purpose of an inside spike collar? Is that

Malcolm Collins: just so like to cause additional pain if the dog tries to run away or something?

Oh, so

Simone Collins: it’s like a choke chain, but way worse.

Malcolm Collins: But way worse. Yeah. I mean, the spikes are really long and sharp. It’s not even like the, it’s like the things that you would put on a dog to keep like a wolf from eating it. Yeah. If you’ve ever seen those type of collars, but inwards oh,

Simone Collins: is that what those are for?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you’ve never seen the, yeah. The spike things are, are to keep wolves from [00:07:00] killing your dog.

Simone Collins: Well, if they go for the neck, I mean, you can kill a dog.

Malcolm Collins: Many, they do go for the neck.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: that’s how they kill dogs. It’s okay. It actually gives the dog an enormous amount of protection against wild

Simone Collins: animals. Oh, good for them.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Well that’s, it’s quite a cool invention. I, in my culture, I love it that I’m familiar with that and not the so

Simone Collins: no, I’m only, I’m only familiar with it insofar as I, I, I had one of them in my. Quasi toying with goth face For myself. I didn’t know. I didn’t know about their practical roots. Do

you

Malcolm Collins: have any pictures?

I haven’t seen your goth face.

Simone Collins: N no, but I definitely had a spike choker and I didn’t know that. You’re so cute. Those are the origins. Wait, come on. You know, our, we both went, you know, you had, I had my, my spike collar. We

Malcolm Collins: matched each other. At any point in life we

Simone Collins: would’ve, yeah. We always would’ve fallen in love.

Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, so, spikey, spiky dog collar.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There had been video evidence of him saying that [00:08:00] he bought a collar in the past. Like a shock caller and that he was doing shock training with Kaya. But so like, it’s just like it’s comical that he would claim that he hadn’t done this.

Like I’m a little surprised he’s still doubling down because it looks. So bad. A song got to the top of YouTube songs that was about this. We’ve made songs about this. It’s hilarious. It’s hilarious. This has happened.

But I think a lot of people when they look at this, what they’re not understanding is that this is actually downstream of a cultural difference based on his upbringing.

And may not, did he have a Muslim

Simone Collins: upbringing like,

Malcolm Collins: or like an Islamic upbringing? He’s said that he’s a non-practicing Muslim. Hassan Piker was raised a Muslim, having grown up in Turkey with Turkish parents. It, it’s, but he was born in Brunswick, New Jersey, but he did live in Turkey for much of his childhood growing up in Istanbul.

And he also lived, I think, in Jordan for a period. And so he, I identifies as Muslim culturally speaking, and he [00:09:00] grew up around a population of Muslims. And if you look at the who he sides with geopolitically it is the, and this is something watch our, my God, if you haven’t seen it, it’s one of our best videos are on the politics in philosophy of Mond because it explains where the new left is going.

And what I’ve realized is the direction that the new left is going is a merger of Communism and Islamism. And the platforming and increasing platforming of Muslims or former Muslims, is that being a core part of their allure?

What I love is there’s going to be a class of progressives who might watch this and be like, but don’t you guys use corporal punishments? Like, didn’t you slap one of your kids when they almost kicked over a table? And it’s like, yes, that did happen. And I understand that that is not normal, was in every culture that lives in the United States, but the difference between us and Hassan is we.

Both talked about practicing this form of corporal punishment before the event in Question Bob Gate, [00:10:00] and we immediately admitted it and explained why we did it. So even though we might be culturally unique within America, we have a fan base who I know will respect that

Whereas Hassan knew that he was lying to his fan base about who he was.

Which is actually a great wider meta commentary on the current divide between the left and the right in the United States. Well, in the world more broadly is that the left gets along because they pretend that no one is actually different and cultures are not actually different. Whereas the right accepts that we are different and tries to make things work well.

Understanding that not all cultures might be. Compatible with all other cultures due to their differences. Hassan couldn’t just come out there like we did and be like, Hey, we’re from a different cultural background than you, because he would have to admit through saying that, that Muslims are different.

I.

Malcolm Collins: So. Hassan Piker Hassan Piker tortures his dog, but he’s also explained in other videos how [00:11:00] he sees dogs.

He says he saw dogs as like slaves and that they should be treated like slaves, right? That, that this was the just way to, to treat an animal.

Hassan: Just such a lib . Like, oh dude, please don’t get a Frenchy. I just wrote a Vox article talking about how problematic they are.

Like I don’t give a . I know they have breathing problems. I know they’re incredibly inbred. I don’t give a . I know, I know. I don’t care. Like I don’t give a . This is a dog. ,

You have an animal that you are taking care of. You have a literal slave. And not just like a slave, but you have a literal slave that you shackle, okay?

Every day pulled from their neck to and take ‘em wherever the you want to take ‘em to. And on top of that, you neuter your slave. So your slave can’t have more slaves, and you have the slave for, for just personal consumption, making yourself feel better.

And I’d point out here that this view is actually pretty rare among [00:12:00] most, , well Christian cultural groups in the United States, whether you’re talking about the Catholic cultural group or the Protestant cultural group. , For example, , from my family tradition, you would consider a dog, a member of the family, right?

Like, we don’t neuter our dog. I would never think of my dog as a slave. When we get a dog, it’s not out of. , Like I want something for my pleasure. It’s more that that is what a family unit is supposed to look like. In the same way I get a wife, like obviously I have a biological reason to get a wife, but the main reason I’m searching for a wife is because of social conventions that I grew up believing.

A correct family unit is a husband and wife, and then you have kids and a dog. , That is why I get a dog. Just as much as why I would have kids or have a wife, , .

And here you might say, well, yeah, but a wife is needed to make the kids. Like, what role does the dog have? And I would say, well, culturally it would seem obvious to me like this is just the way I was raised to think is that, , kids cannot grow up emotionally normal if they don’t have a dog. Like kids need a [00:13:00] dog that is part of childhood.

To deny a kid a dog is like leaving a kid locked in a closet. Every night, , I, I guess we literally do that with one of our kids leaving a kid locked in a closet every day. We do not lock him in the closet. He just likes to sleep there.

Malcolm Collins: And so why would he feel this way? Well, this is actually how Islam, now note, there are multiple times in the Korean where somebody is blessed by God and will go over it.

For helping a suffering dog. Oh, okay. But, but that is because those are typically earlier takes in the Koran. And as Islam has developed, not every school of Islam, we’ll get to this in a second. Okay. But most schools of Islam has developed they’ve become more anti-D dog. This, this becoming extremely anti-D dog happened between the 18 hundreds and the early 19 hundreds.

Oh,

Simone Collins: so recently.

Malcolm Collins: Very recently. Yeah. Now of course still trying to claim that it goes all the way back and everything like that, but it really doesn’t seem to it seems that if we’re going further back, it’s more pragmatic. Mm-hmm. More recently it’s just like, [00:14:00] I hate dogs. Okay. So, he likely grew up seeing dogs as something that should be seen with a degree of scorn.

Should be seen as very unclean. We’ll get into how unclean, but I mean like spiritually unclean, like in Islam, if you’re praying and a dog can see you, your prayers are discounted. So Oh, good

Simone Collins: heavens. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Quite, yeah. No, no, no. It’s like. Dogs are like bad spiritual, ju juju, ma gumbo, right? So very, so he would’ve seen them with a degree of innate disdain.

However, as somebody, and if you look at his song, as I pointed out, you know, he works out a lot. He tries to be this hot male streamer. His audience is stupid. White women, that is his audience, right? Who want a guy they can thirst after who looks mildly progressive? Well, he knows if you are selling to stupid white, progressive women [00:15:00] intelligently, what do you want?

You want a big, pretty expensive dog in the background of your shot at all times. And that is why he has moved to do this, right? But a lot of people had an intense, like yuck at seeing a dog. Because if you come from one of my traditions, like my background, dogs are seen more like a member of the family.

Whereas if you go from one of his traditions, dogs are seen as disposable tools. So I wanna get into this, I wanna get into where this, this cultural tradition came from. And I wanna get into why has said, because I love everybody complaining that he’s doing this and not a lot of people explaining. Why he’s doing it.

Other than that he’s a sociopath. And yes, I think he’s a bit of a sociopath, but I think that there’s other regions as well. And I think that this brings me to another point, which is something that we also need to remember before I get too deep into the details here is people coming from Muslim cultural backgrounds are often.

Far more culturally distinct from you know, [00:16:00] Americans than many Americans recognize. Because we try to cover up the ways that we are culturally different.

Simone Collins: Well, I think there was also a generation of people really attempting to say Muslims are just like everyone else. Like they’re just like us. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Instead of respecting their cultural

Simone Collins: difference. Yeah. Instead of celebrating and highlighting what makes them culturally unique and strong and robust and interesting and cool. It was no, just like, no, they’re, they’re just like us and they just sometimes, you know, like once a year they fast for Ramadan.

That’s what them Muslims do, but they’re just like us otherwise, and that’s it. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I, this

Simone Collins: is all surprising to me.

Malcolm Collins: Fun thing that I’ll be pointing out and I might have a whole episode on this if people find this to be an interesting topic. But I’d point out that if we look at the primary players in the existing cultural battlefield two of the players that are culturally closest to each other, even though a lot of people do not realize this or.

I dunno. I think because the urban monoculture is [00:17:00] so afraid of the groups realizing this is the American sort of GRE Appalachian redneck cultural group. And the let’s say basically white rural American cultural group and the American Black cultural group. Mm-hmm. These groups are very, very culturally close to each other.

And specifically if you’re wondering, what do I mean by this? And, and I’d argue that they’re much more closely cul culturally closer to each other than either is to Jews, Catholics, or Muslims. Specifically both of them have an affinity for dogs. Both of them have an affinity for decentralized religious structures.

Both of them are. People might say highly susceptible to conspiratorial thinking

Speaker 4: Lemme tell you something about the word. Good. Brother Good is an ancient Anglo-Saxon word go off, meaning the absence of color, IE. It’s all good, which it is. Or goodwill Hunting, meaning I’m hunting . So if you say good morning to me, the only thing you are saying is I’m gonna kill your [00:18:00] black first thing in the morning.

Atomic core. See what this so-called button does?

Speaker 9: Attention atomic core set to overload.

Speaker 4: My bad.

Malcolm Collins: and conspiracy theories. Both of them have a disgust for hierarchy and external group authority. Of them we’re all

Simone Collins: awesome.

Malcolm Collins: Are uniquely like interested in low culture cultural pathways. Both of them are. Well historically, at least very family oriented, but on the small family level rather than wider family structures you see in Catholics and Jews.

More nuclear family oriented with maybe only grandparents or something like that. Connections. But both, even if you think of their typical. Party environments are very similar. Like what is the typical American black party?

Simone Collins: Oh, like a barbecue in your backyard? A

Malcolm Collins: barbecue. What is the typical redneck party?

It’s a barbecue. No, I, a lot of people, like I told you [00:19:00] this before, but a lot of people just are unaware of how culturally similar these two groups are and that they’re much

Simone Collins: Yeah. Even like soul food, but like. Redneck food,

Malcolm Collins: soul food and redneck food are basically the same thing. Just

Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s, that’s actually a really good point.

Malcolm Collins: This is, well, I mean, I think it’s, it’s relevant when you have like the Nick Fuentes crowd and the groupers trying to be like, oh, hey, you, you know, classic Americans you, you are like us and not like these black Americans. And it’s like, no, I’m, I’m. Pretty sure I’m a lot closer to Black Americans than I am to you.

Yeah. Which is interesting, interesting to talk about. And that’s, that’s not to say that there aren’t, you know, conflicts between these two groups, but I think that they’re mostly engineered conflicts within a modern setting. But anyway, to continue. Dogs have become unpopular in Muslim majority societies, primarily due to their classification as ritually and poor naje in most schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

Particularly regarding their saliva, which is believed to [00:20:00] invalidate absolution. Oo, required for prayer if contact occurs. This leads to practical restriction. Dogs are. Often not kept indoors as pets. And their presence during worship is seen as nullifying prayers, which can mandate their eradication.

Interesting. The one or the one major carve out here is the Milaki School, which we talked about earlier, A Sunni Islam that distinguishes between wild dogs considered impure and domestic ones not impure. Okay. So, let’s talk about the timeline of this ‘cause I mentioned that as well.

So you’ve got the pre-Islamic era before 6,610 CE dogs were common in the region for hunting, herding and guarding, as seen in ancient rock art and burials dating back to 6,000 years. However, they did work with

Simone Collins: dogs tactically. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Some. pre-Islamic folklore viewed black dogs as evil or omen of manifestations of gin spirits which may have influenced later Islamic attitudes.

Okay we look at the prophetic era, six 10 to 6 32. Attitudes were generally tolerant and pragmatic. The Koran mentions dogs positively are neutrally [00:21:00] three times, which we’ll get into more details later. And the prophet Mohammad repeatedly prayed in the presence of dogs. Allowed puppies to be raised by his companions.

No. And showed kindness such as protecting a mother of a dog and her pups during military marches. Dogs were,

Simone Collins: so, Mohammed was a, the prophet Mohammed was a dog guy.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, but he did order dogs killed during a rabies outbreak, which is also a

Simone Collins: perfect, well, obviously, yeah. But you like even the most big fans of dogs, I mean, if you love dogs and wanna protect them, you gotta kill the rabid dogs or they all

Malcolm Collins: dogs.

Well, yeah. Rabid dogs are a threat to dogs as well.

Simone Collins: Exactly. Dogs grow

Malcolm Collins: freely in the mosque of the prophet in Medina during his lifetime and in the centuries after.

Simone Collins: So what changed? If it was fine then.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. One Hadith from this time does order the killing of stray dogs, but again, this appears that it was probably during a RABs outbreak, which,

yeah,

Simone Collins: fair

Malcolm Collins: one.

If people can be like, oh, that’s too convenient. I’m like, hold on, take a step back here. Mohammed wasn’t like. Jesus. Right? Like [00:22:00] Muhammad also ran an empire basically, and cities. While he was doing that, is it not unlikely that there would’ve been at least one rabies outbreak? Is it not true that unvaccinated dogs are actually very good carriers of rabies?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Is it not true that a city might have a lot of stray dogs and a cleanup may need to be ordered?

Simone Collins: Or was there just some confusion and were they actually killing rabbis?

Malcolm Collins: Actually killing rabbis.

Simone Collins: I’m kidding. I’m kidding.

Malcolm Collins: Well, some people probably argue

Simone Collins: rabbis outbreak.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so now we’re gonna The early caliphate, medieval period.

This is 6 32 to 1700 Uhhuh. Dogs are made of utility in nomadic and urban life. In expanding Islamic cities like Baghdad and Cairo and Damascus. They served guards, hunters, and street cleaners by consuming garbage with authorities, building watering troughs. Mosques, providing food for dogs, punishments for harming other dogs were common reflecting codependence.

However, the Najee tradition [00:23:00] solidified during the Hadas compilations in the eighth and ninth centuries Key collections like Salahi Al Barak compiled. 146 and eight 70 CE and the salami Muslim 8 8 17 to 8 75 CE include reports of companions like Abu Harare stating that dog saliva required washing utensils several times, once was earth, and that angels avoid houses was dog.

This is when it became common to see black dogs as manifestations of evil. This is book 10 of the ISTs. These sadist allowed dogs only for farming, hunting, guarding, dedication, daily rewards for non utilitarian ownership. Scholars like Ima Malaki during this period though, began to push more lenient views explicitly.

This was during 7 95 ce. So what’s interesting here is when you look at Milwaukee’s view of dogs, right, how we talked about this one branch of Islam, it’s not that. He was going against an earlier way of teeing dogs. It’s that [00:24:00] he became popular when it was at the earliest era of some Muslims beginning to see dogs as needing to get rid of old dogs and is evil and useless.

Mm-hmm. And he was saying, no, no, no. Look, we’ve never seen dogs that way in the past. So he actually represents a true split and not a historical revisionism around dogs in sort of a progressive way or something like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, we, we actually even see charitable endowments awa for dog care existing.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I

Simone Collins: wonder what the early song for their promotion was if it wasn’t in the arms of the angel.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Ottoman to modern period, 18 hundreds to present. Attitude shifted markedly in the early 19th century amid emerging contagion ideas, pre germ theory, linking dogs to plagues like cholera via garbage, as centralized sanitation replaced.

Dogs cleaning roll because before this period, remember I, I pointed out that in Cairo and stuff like that, dogs would clean up. Well. Debris that was on the streets, like [00:25:00] food debris, totally rotting carcasses, rotting people potentially people died like homeless. People just like died in the streets and there were not often good cleanup crews.

That is incredibly dangerous. People who don’t know rotting human meat is one of the most dangerous things you can have anywhere. It. Because the types of bacteria that grow on rotting human meat can grow in living human meat as well.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: there’s specialists.

Simone Collins: They’re sort of like they’re little disease accelerators

Malcolm Collins: just

Simone Collins: sitting there.

Whoa.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Actually, if you wanted to somebody and have people let’s say I’m, I don’t wanna use that word in a YouTube stream. If you wanted to unlive somebody and not have people know an interesting way you could do this is take a number of vials of your blood and put them in agar. And then set these on a window sill.

And then wait till one turns clear or clearer. That means it likely has some sort of hemo, phage growing was in [00:26:00] it. That is likely going to be quite dangerous to humans. And if you introduce that to a human being it would be, my guess is fairly hard to track. They,

Simone Collins: they, you should have saved that for the.

The paid Substack and Patreon subscribers at least. I mean,

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: have worst

Malcolm Collins: science.

Simone Collins: The worst science.

Malcolm Collins: No, your facts. Oh, oh my God. What I’m saying here is the dogs actually had a high utility, the cleaning roll, until you had these more structured systems like the Ottomans. Mm. So during the Ottoman Tanet reforms, 1839 to 1876 dogs became quote unquote, economically useless in hell hazards.

Leading to eradication campaigns. In 1910, the Young Turks exiled 30,000 to 80,000 Istanbul strays to an island where most died. And they saw this as symbolizing modernization. Now, fun fact here. This is Turkey that we’re talking about again, the country where he lived. [00:27:00] But did you know who has a show called The Young Turks?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: St. Er, his uncle, so to say, that St. Er was willing to lionize a group systematically genocide, and 30,000 to 80,000 dogs in Istanbul. Right?

Simone Collins: Oh my goodness.

Malcolm Collins: That this is the environment that Hassan would’ve grown up in. Now his behavior and perspective towards dogs makes more sense. He is so you’re

Simone Collins: just trying to defend Hassan here.

Malcolm Collins: Really what I’m trying to say is Hassan is culturally Muslim, but he understands that his audience is urban monoculture white women.

Simone Collins: So he’s, he’s bridging the divide. The dog is there. He just needs to shock it sometimes.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Okay. But what is fun about this is I think that what we’re seeing here is that a faction of, and I think that we’re going to increasingly see this the urban monocultural movement.

Again, you sort of [00:28:00] need to see on Ani video to totally understand this. And this has been a huge shift for me in how I understand things. Mm-hmm. The urban monoculture, lionizes, Muslim and cultural practices. To such an extent that it sees them as definitionally above reproach and deserving of leadership positions.

And that their role, if they are white, is to lower the white population or to displace the white population with immigrants. And any population that’s not interested in getting on board. This includes American black populations that won’t also. You know, begin to bow to specifically Islamist immigrants.

And I’ll note here, you can be like, what about the Islamic local black population? I am unaware of any of them because it is pretty big in the United States. Any of them with mainstream leadership positions in progressive circles that is either as thought leaders like Hassan or Yure. Or positions like Mond or the various Muslims we have in Congress right now like that are part of this [00:29:00] sort of new pac.

So I should note that they treat them as an underclass and see them as a neuro class because they come from a classist culture. Well, what we’re seeing here is the beginnings of conflict and fractures in this movement where some of these white women are beginning to realize. These Islamists that we have been worshiping and platforming and that our movement sees as a goal of replacing us may have incompatible cultural practices, IE their perspective towards dogs with our own cultural practices.

Yeah, I’m going to go to the pragmatist guide to Crafting Religions. ‘cause we wrote on this some here. Mm-hmm. So Islamic cities were more sophisticated than their Christian, quote unquote dark Age correlates. And in response to the spread of disease, they developed dedicated authorities to remove trash from cities before these trash authorities were created.

Dogs help. To clinging city streets and thus were beneficial after they lost one of their [00:30:00] core urban utilities, dog became nothing but pests. It could be argued that the difference in views of dogs between Western European Cult of Arts, this is cultural or religious groups, and their Islamic counterparts, is primarily due to Islamic cities earlier invention of sanitation practices.

And the denser nation of Islamic Urban Centers, this dislike it dogs is actually fairly common across urban focused cultures such as Jewish culture. The Talmud is quite explicit in its criticism of dog ownership and Salam Navarra Rab. Rabbinic. The Fiddler on the roof. Guy at one point said, quote, if a Jew has a dog, either that dog is no dog, or that Jew is no Jew in quote, general Jewish distaste for dog ownership can be seen in the STA Israelis owning a dog a ra.

Much more than. Four times lower than the general dog ownership in the United States. There is a common myth among Jewish community that this dislike of dogs began after the Holocaust. However, considering that Robin quote, the one I did from the Fiddler and the Wge came from [00:31:00] 1903, this superstition is unfounded.

It is unclear whether Jewish. Against dog ownership first arose. For example, Joffrey Miller argues that the presence of thousands of dogs in a cemetery near the Ashlan dating from the fifth century be shows Jews of the Period were fond of dogs. That’s

Simone Collins: Jeffrey Miller. That’s Diana’s,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Husband who’ve had on the podcast actually while Lawrence.

Staiger argues that Ashlin was a Phoenician city during that period. In the paper, quote, dogs in Jewish Society in the Second Temple period, and in the time of Isha in Talmud, in quote Joshua Schwartz observes that quote, most of the Jewish sources for the second temple period. And the time of the Micha and the Talmud continued to maintain the negative attitude of dogs expressed in the biblical tradition and conceives quote, it is improbable that dogs in Jewish society were objects of the same degree of affection as they received in Greco-Roman [00:32:00] world or in the Persian world, in quote, Islamic and Jewish anti-D dog attitudes.

Are pragmatic for people who live in cities. Dogs make a ton of of sense if you are trying to herd animals or protect livestock on a farm or hunt because you live in a rural environment or protect rural property, but little sense for people living in a city and can even be quite dangerous.

However, for the same reasons rural cult waterers are usually pro dog on the subject of dogs For defense, it may not be. A stereotype that dogs are objectively effective at preventing crime. Neighborhoods with higher levels of dog ownership tend to have lower levels of homicide, robbery, and aggravated assaults.

Admittedly, this may not be the dogs themselves that prevent crime, but the association could be totally correlation or perhaps a dog’s work as effective signals. After all. If rural cultivars are in favor of both dog and gun ownership, criminals are going to learn after a while that breaking into a house with a dog is much more likely to lead to [00:33:00] lead in your head than one without a dog.

Hmm. If it should come as no surprise, the, the inherited Calvinist and Scottish Irish English cultures we grew up in were rapidly pro dog to the extent that it would be seen as actual child abuse to raise a kid without a dog in my family. In fact, not a single person in any branch of my family with kids does not have a dog.

Our family canine cultural biases exist to dog breeds as well with our cultural tradition. Seeing dogs that do not work, IEG Chihuahuas, pit bulls, stuff like that as being a sign of moral failures in their owners.

Simone Collins: I mean, pit bulls work if you are part of an underground dog fighting ring.

Malcolm Collins: Not in any sort of moral societally beneficial labor.

That’s true. Even though we do not personally work our dogs, this is illogical, but perhaps related to a cultural memory of dogs being a tool of utility we find ourselves wondering whether people’s inherited affinities for dog ownership are a product of mere cultural memory. Or an intuition that might serve some [00:34:00] purpose in our current and future society.

The research on this topic seems to indicate that dog ownership during childhood positively impacts kids’ immune systems reduces allergies. That’s what

Simone Collins: sold me when you wanted to get a dog.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And improves eq while studies correct. For this, it is critical to note the dog ownership is also heavily associated with higher socioeconomic status.

Ultimately we decided the dog ownership is not just. Traditional, but also logical hints us having a dog. The biggest risk culturally speaking of pets in the modern world comes from disease and their ability to satiate people’s hunger For parenthood. Most humans feel an instinct to have kids just like pornography, but pet ownership can be used to masturbate and ritzy.

Relieves its biological drive. You see this every time somebody walks around with their dog and cat as a quote unquote baby, or treats their pet in such a way. Now I note here both Islamic and Jewish culture are higher fertility rate than cultures that treat dogs as babies or that lionize this, cultures [00:35:00] that found the idea of having sex with animals disgusting long before they cared about consent or animal wellbeing. Sex as animals is one of the many pathways that lead to non-productive sexual relief and hence lower birth rates. And recall that any culture that allows for cultural practice that leads to lower birth rates, where ultimately be outcompeted by one that has cultural practices that lead to higher birth rates within the culture, we are intentionally building for our.

Family or house. Pets are framed as a tool for improving children and protecting the family, and must never be used to ate a hunger for companionship or emotional and sexual desires. Mm-hmm. Our children will be strongly discouraged from getting a dog before they have kids or as quote unquote, practice for having kids.

Simone had always told me that a dog would be a reward for having kids, and I think that that’s a very good way to frame it. Now we don’t have a strong thesis on cat ownership, but studies show that religious service and attendance is heavily, negatively correlated with cat ownership, but not dog ownership.

Specifically Christian worship. [00:36:00] Ownership of was ACS being more likely to own cats. So interesting there. Now I can go deeper in just specific IC mentions around dogs, positive mentions, negative mentions, or we can just talk about this. What are your thoughts?

Simone Collins: I am curious to know what thes.

Says about dogs because that’s, I don’t know, shouldn’t that be what kind of governs your decision if you’re considering how godly or not a dog is? And, and that’s supposed to be where, you know, the Yeah. The root of your cultural religious protections come from. So what? What does the Quran say about dogs?

So

Malcolm Collins: the one haddi, the Sally Muslim states, quote, a what do you call this? A Woman of the night was forgiven by Allah because passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of. Thst, she took off her shoe and tying it with her head cover, she threw out some water for it.

So Allah forgave her because of that. So being, so

Simone Collins: being, but that, that’s just showing [00:37:00] compassion, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I dunno if

Simone Collins: that’s dog specific. So

Malcolm Collins: let’s, in another. While a man was walking, he felt thirsty and went down to a well to drink water from it. On coming out of it, he saw a dog panting and eating mud because of excess serus.

Aw. Then the man said, this dog is suffering from the same problem of mine. So he went down the well, filled his shoe with water and. Caught, caught hold of it with his teeth and climbed up out of the water for the dog. Allah thanked him for his good deed and forgave him. The grim.

Simone Collins: Wait, but hold on. So this guy, he went to a well to get water for himself,

Malcolm Collins: presumably,

Simone Collins: and then he wanted to get water to the dog

Malcolm Collins: himself.

Simone Collins: Like, was he also getting water for himself with his shoe? Did he also

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. This is my read from understanding this, which is wild that he did this. So apparently he climbed down the well bent over drank from the standing pool of water. That was how he filled himself

Simone Collins: himself. And

Malcolm Collins: then the dog

Simone Collins: got of shoe, used his shoe

Malcolm Collins: bugs bunny [00:38:00] nonsense instead of just like lever and pulley systems here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they, they need to build better infrastructure. But I mean, this certainly demonstrates the fact that I’m seeing a correlation between people being nice to dogs and a complete lack of infrastructure. So. Checks out. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Interesting. Do you know in modern Saudi Arabia, 77.4% of pet ownerships are cats?

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: I also find a lot of weird feeding dogs with shoe water.

Simone Collins: Something about, yeah. And something about these like Dutch style clogs that were, you know, you could keep water in them because I don’t know, most, when I think of historical European shoes, they would’ve. Quickly leaked all the water out. Yeah.

Actually I

Malcolm Collins: wanna look this up. Ancient Muslim shoe.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because apparently this is just, you’re also defacto emergency water canteen.

Malcolm Collins: So they were made with leather and it looks like they, yeah, they might have been able to hold water.

Simone Collins: Wow. [00:39:00] Okay. Good for

them.

Malcolm Collins: That’s a, that’s an interesting factoid right there.

But the larger thing is, is we as a society need to stop pretending everyone’s culturally the same, okay? Mm-hmm. And we also need to admit that some cultures might be incompatible with other cultures, right? I might, you know, have concerns about the way that Muslims treat dogs. Mm-hmm. But. I think that they have a right to treat the dogs that you know, grew up around their ancestors and that, you know, sort of co-evolved with these populations within their traditional environments like this.

But I think somebody who doesn’t want to convert to our culture, right? Like Hassan for example, he has, he has said many times that he thinks, for example, recently he said that we are in the imperial capital. Speaking of being in New York. And that be being there, you know, that we, unfortunately he said, defeated the, the communists of, of Russia, you know, that literally were genocide people, like not a fun group.

I, I also saw recently that [00:40:00] he said that like we are, that Kim Jong-Un has done nothing that America hasn’t done which was really weird. I was like.

Simone Collins: Huh? Why? Well, I don’t know. I mean, maybe Kim Jong-Un hasn’t done a whole lot. I mean, keep in mind he inherited. His position from Kim Jong-il. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But he could

Simone Collins: have stopped intergenerational

Malcolm Collins: the prison system that they have that you can be born into and live your entire life in a concentration camp.

Yeah. For one of your parents country.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I mean, also our presidents haven’t stopped the prison system, so he hasn’t done anything. Our prison system, well, we don’t

Malcolm Collins: have an intergenerational prison system.

Simone Collins: Right. And so our precedents haven’t done that either. I don’t, I dunno

Malcolm Collins: that

Simone Collins: that does

Malcolm Collins: not, that is not comparable, Simone.

So what is your thoughts on this? What is your thoughts on the whole Hassan situation? Because,

Simone Collins: well, listen, I mean, the Muslims still aren’t eating [00:41:00] dogs, so can we really be that bad, bad

Malcolm Collins: dogs

Simone Collins: do, do

Malcolm Collins: what? I don’t know about this.

Simone Collins: I don’t think they eat dogs. Dude, if you think a dog is gonna mess up your prayers just by looking at you, I don’t think you’re eating it.

If, if you need to wash. Yeah. Yeah. They’re considered incredibly forbidden. Yeah. So I know they’re not eating the dogs. But South Koreans, you know, they kept asking you when you were, you know, the Muslims can’t eat

Malcolm Collins: anything that’s carnivorous.

Simone Collins: Wait

Malcolm Collins: with fangs

Simone Collins: Muslim. That’s

Malcolm Collins: why they can’t eat dogs is because dogs are carnivorous.

Simone Collins: So they couldn’t eat lion meat.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they can’t eat dogs. Wolves,

Simone Collins: cats, lions,

Malcolm Collins: crocodiles, alligators

Simone Collins: because they have, they have tusks. I guess. Do tusks count as fangs because I’ll eat anything.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t think so. But they didn’t, I mean, they can’t eat pigs obviously, because pigs are haram as well.

Simone Collins: Right. Oh wow. It’s like a big

Malcolm Collins: thing for them

Simone Collins: is pig. Yeah. Again, I was just steeped in the culture of [00:42:00] Muslims are just like us. They just. Pray a lot.

Malcolm Collins: They’re really not. Watch our video on child marriage that we did on just how different mainstream and powerful Muslim organizations are from Western organizations that if you, for example, ‘cause I didn’t know this before we did that episode, if any of they want, any Muslim has ever told you, oh, Aisha actually wasn’t nine when she married the prophet.

She wasn’t what was it? 11 or 13 when they consummated their marriage. Mm-hmm. Is that

Simone Collins: so much better?

Malcolm Collins: They, they’re like, that was a mistranslation. They, they, and you could look at these other sources. The problem is, is anyone who’s telling you that what they’re not telling you is a caveat is, but the vast majority of Muslims in Muslim majority countries.

Do believe she was nine and that they consummated their marriage at the age of no, whatever, 13. Th this is an incredibly fringe belief that they are preaching to you and an incredibly revisionist belief that you probably, so even it was

Simone Collins: true. It, it almost kind of doesn’t matter

Malcolm Collins: because, so it’s kind of irrelevant ‘cause [00:43:00] like 95% of Muslims in like Pakistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia would believe this.

Simone Collins: Very interesting. Yeah, that’s a great point.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Like, so, and, and of course that affects their behavior and their actions. Yeah. It affects their behavior and their actions after they immigrate. And I think that this is why courts have very wisely. Recently there was a case of grape of, of a kid. A young girl.

I think this was in Sweden or Norway. I don’t know if you’ve been seeing this one. But it didn’t last long enough. So the guy’s not getting jailed for it

Simone Collins: last long enough.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they said it was short and it was his culture anyway. So maybe then his culture is incompatible with Northern European culture.

I

Simone Collins: didn’t know that quickies didn’t count as.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Well, and this is the thing, when I talk about cultural diversity being like a dish, right? A dish is going to be boring if it’s just one ingredient, right? But [00:44:00] you don’t just add any ingredient to any dish, right? You add ingredients. Selectively. Right.

And at certain amount, see America like salt. You know, it might want a certain amount of Catholics, but it may not want much over 20% of Catholics. ‘cause then it’s too salty. Right? It might want a certain amount of Jews. Jews might, might be like spice or something like that, that I’m adding to my chicken, right?

That might make it better. Right? But it might not want all spice. Right? Like that might make it too spicy, right? This is true.

Simone Collins: I did once think that there were certain ingredients you couldn’t have too much of and you actually can, I didn’t think you could have too much butter that you can.

Malcolm Collins: And then, you know, Muslims might be like peanut butter.

You might want a little bit if peanut butter sauce was your chicken, but there’s not really a chicken peanut butter dish. Or if you’re making it, you may not want any salt on that dish because peanut butter may have a different effect. The point that I’m making here is we need to [00:45:00] be aware that different ethnicities and different cultures and different religions are actually different.

Is pant

Simone Collins: tie kind of. Chicken dish.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah, I guess it could be. Right? So you, you make it like that and then it works, right? Yeah. But in that one, maybe chicken’s like a smaller, what am I eating tonight, by the way? What do we have a thaw?

Simone Collins: We don’t have anything thaw. I mean, everything’s ready to be, it’s supposed to be frozen until the moment of, and then I thaw.

So we can really do anything. We have Burmese min chicken, we have barbecue. We have like, sorry, the, the slow cooked brisket, chili we have.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that was good. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Bullock, we have

Malcolm Collins: I think I might go for Bullock because it’s been a while.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Bullock is so good.

Simone Collins: It is my,

Malcolm Collins: what I really wanna try to make is because I kept mispronouncing in, globalize the inata, globalize, the empanada, a globalized empanada, and I really, it’s [00:46:00] whatever where we, we make it with like a, a, a taco shell and cheddar, and I think it would taste really good.

Simone Collins: That’s not an empanada, that’s an, I

Speaker 11: Oh my God. Still butt off. Globalizing, pan off. Yeah, we’re gonna toasty. We need to amputate your butt. No. Do you know what that means? Do you know what amputating means? Toasty. I don’t know. It means we need to cut it off. I think we have to cut off your butt. I think it’s, I think it’s pretty serious.

This right here. Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: don’t care. It’s a globalized inata. I don’t like empanadas. Okay.

Simone Collins: What about a globalized stuffed piata? I can do that with a,

Malcolm Collins: a globalized stuffed piata. Okay.

Simone Collins: We have to get potatoes for that anyway. Well, we’ll, we’ll do bulldog tonight. Let’s just do bulldog.

Malcolm Collins: Oh. And do the one with the extra mushroom.

If [00:47:00] you have that one. That one was so good.

Simone Collins: Okay, I’ll try to

Malcolm Collins: put it

Simone Collins: down.

Malcolm Collins: Any final thoughts?

Simone Collins: This was interesting and I had no idea. So this now makes two religious subgroups that are not great with the dogs, not a big family. Well, Jews don’t

Malcolm Collins: have a religious mandate to kill them all and many Muslims do.

Simone Collins: Okay. Touche.

Malcolm Collins: So it’s a little different.

Simone Collins: And then yeah, but then in, in Seoul you just, I mean like some people think they’re cute and have ‘em as pets and some people just eat ‘em. And it’s not about hate, it’s about taste.

Malcolm Collins: And again, I actually do not mind that he used a shot color. I mind the way he was using a shot color.

That was messed up, man. That was not cool.

Simone Collins: Like, yeah. Yeah. To have a dog sit in one place for that long, to have, especially

Malcolm Collins: a dog that big, that can cause lots of health complications.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, I don’t. Hassan to be a good person. Hopefully we keep rising in fame and one day we’re like at his [00:48:00] level of fame and we can do something there.

I mean, we’re, we’re still growing. You haven’t, like what you mean

Simone Collins: do something there? What? Put one of our children in the corner with a shock collar. And so then

Malcolm Collins: honestly, you in the corner with a shock collar, I’m gonna go to the debate with him and have a button to shock you. Just to,

Simone Collins: a bunch of people I think bought the shock collar after this whole incident and there are videos of them like daring each other to turn it all the way up and shock each other, which is the

Malcolm Collins: song challenge.

Simone Collins: Pretty dangerous because you know, it’s meant to go through like thicker fur and stuff and we don’t have that. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: please stop being a baby.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh, what a thing that was.

Malcolm Collins: Well it’s been interesting because so many of his glazer’s have refused to go back on it, even though it’s very obviously true at this point and it.

I think it’s done a lot to discredit sort of the core of that movement. And he has lost followers since then. He has lost view counts since then. And like 10%, 20% I think so. Not like a ton, but still a meaningful amount. It seems

Simone Collins: to hurt though, if he’s a trust fund kid, then I guess it doesn’t [00:49:00] matter, so if one’s fine,

Malcolm Collins: well no, but it matters to the growth of where the Democratic party goes.

Mm-hmm. How much is he and hugger. And Manami able to incept the progressive movement with this Islamist flavor of communism. Or is that gonna die out?

Simone Collins: It’s clearly on the rise, so I don’t

Malcolm Collins: think, yeah, and it’s weird that it’s on the rise after the Gaza war is over. Like we were sort of told, Hey, when this is over, this is over.

Interesting.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for enlightening me. I, I love these conversations, so I’m grateful to you.

Malcolm Collins: I am grateful to you, Simone. You are a great wife. And by the way, I had a, a, a, would it be too hard? And you can push back if this is too hard.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: To do the CG perrow and then put it in taco shells with fresh [00:50:00] cut ka barlo peppers and mozzarella.

And what

Simone Collins: are kalo peppers?

Malcolm Collins: Those are the peppers that you have that are fresh in the I was just thinking, ‘cause we’ve got them fresh right now.

Simone Collins: You t red chili peppers and that’s it. I used up all the green-ish

Malcolm Collins: peppers. Oh, you used up all the green ones. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, well then we’ll just do the we

Simone Collins: Can I have T red peppers?

If you wanna go for it tonight. Have steam come out your ears.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I might not mind trying, it was just the cheese.

Simone Collins: So you want shredded cheddar cheese tacos with crud. Whatever that stuff is, the Thai stuff that you can do. Yeah. Do we

Malcolm Collins: have any lettuce or anything we could put in it?

Simone Collins: No. No. We have no lettuce.

Malcolm Collins: We could put carrot.

Simone Collins: Yeah, we could, I could do those. You liked those tiny little carrot shreds that I chopped up for you? Yeah, yeah. I can very easily make those. You want those for texture? So keep those fresh and then basically just do, like, no, I

Malcolm Collins: wouldn’t have them totally fresh. I would fry them up when you reheat this so that [00:51:00] they’re partially fresh.

Simone Collins: Okay, so you want stir fried carrots and then you want them put in basically half quesadilla is in small corn tortilla shells with Yeah, the, okay. I am, I think I can do that.

Malcolm Collins: This sounds really interesting and I’m excited to try it.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it quesadillas, it’s like a chicken quesadilla, but with. Okay. Sorry.

I need to look up the actual name of this stuff. Okay. It is called, there’s a lot of

Malcolm Collins: Thai basil and,

Simone Collins: Yeah, it is,

it is Pad al.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: pad Kal. So truly globalizing

Malcolm Collins: the Tata

Simone Collins: pad. Al, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Padel quesadillas with shredded. Saute carrot.

Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna take pictures. I’m gonna put them in this episode so you guys can see.

Simone Collins: Well, we’ll we’ll see if they turn out, you know, and then, then, then you can decide. [00:52:00]

Malcolm Collins: But definitely cook, cook the carrots from the beginning.

‘cause carrots are like quite bity, like, like hard. Mm-hmm. If they’re not cooked at all. So cook them when you reheat it in a oil,

Simone Collins: when I reheat the, the pad gr pal. And then, yeah. Okay, sure. You got it. I’m

Malcolm Collins: so excited for this. Love you.

Simone Collins: I love you too. Okay. . Ah, it works.

Malcolm Collins: So, something I’ve been thinking a lot about recently because I was looking at, like, doing an episode on this because I got this thought in my head. Okay. And we’ve done an episode in the past on like. Sexuality and why we view it so different from flavor preference as a society. ‘cause I found that, you know, a really weird thing.

Oh, like

Simone Collins: what? Just enjoying spicy foods.

Malcolm Collins: Well, like, you know, I might like vanilla ice cream and another person might like strawberry ice cream and we don’t have. You know, we don’t base our identities around this. But recently I had a bigger revolution when I was thinking about this and it was sexuality.

How is that different [00:53:00] from kinks? Like same sex attraction. Okay. In what? Meaningful way is same sex attraction, not just a kink. It’s a, it’s a arousal tie to an unusual sort of stimuli, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I’m gonna AI and I’m trying to get like, what’s the best steelman against this? And it’s like, well, you know, you know, which gender preference you have is about who you’re attracted to, not what?

And I’m like, well, then a chubby chaser is a sexuality at that point, because that’s about who you’re attracted to, not what and. Basically what I came away from, and I’ll, I’ll put together a stronger thing on this and, and all of the counter arguments, is that a more healthy way to deal with. I think same sex attraction is to just view it as a category of kink and to be open about kinks, but to not place any kink above other kinks as like a form of identity or something.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I think once we do that and there isn’t really a strong argument against it, the like can you think of one?

Simone Collins: No. No. [00:54:00] Definitely not

Malcolm Collins: like in, in what way is it not just an unusual and sometimes disadvantageous arousal pattern.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes advantageous. But yeah, no one should get privileged for having one rather another.

I mean, no one can control it.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But I

Simone Collins: think like some people just are lucky in the same way. Some people are lucky to be taller, for example.

Malcolm Collins: The bigger thing is, is that once you categorize it as a kink, then a lot of the negative externalities that come from it go away. Specifically you one don’t have it glorified as much, but two, you do not, you no longer see it as a, as a, positive thing to be constantly sharing with other people or constantly broadcasting because our society already has sort of, I think, very sane rules around kinks. Like you can have the kink you wanna have. I’m not gonna like shame you for it unless you force me to participate in it in some way.

Exactly.

Malcolm Collins: Or you are constantly broadcasting it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or impose it on someone else without their consent. [00:55:00] In any

Malcolm Collins: way right now, the reason why this becomes a problem with sexual orientation is somebody could say that seeing two same sex attracted people in public is in a way forcing them to participate in their kink.

Yeah. Eeg like a person, you know, dressing someone up like a pony and walking them in public or something like that. And I think. I’m actually still okay with categorizing it. Anything, even with that negative externality?

Simone Collins: Well, I mean there are many places where any forms of public displays of affection are, are considered not okay.

You know where, where, yeah, it’s probably men and women aren’t supposed to be hugging or kissing publicly. So I think you have to hold similar standards, like also to that extent then you would have to hold the same standards for heterosexual couples.

Malcolm Collins: Right, but here’s

Simone Collins: what manifesting,

Malcolm Collins: even if you got rid of all of those scenarios mm-hmm.

If somebody decided to get same sex married, right? Mm-hmm. Which presumably they may want to [00:56:00] do then that would be like getting married in like BDSM gear or something like that, which, you know, obviously some people do, but it’s something that, you know, that society would prefer not to normalize.

And so, am I okay with it? Even with that negative externality? I think yes, primarily because it’s not sustainable long-term anyway. By this what I mean is you can’t get above replacement fertility rates within same-sex attracted populations that live the same-sex lifestyle with current technology.

So it’s not really relevant to attempt to preserve as a sustainable aspect of our society. And if you look at the way we treated same-sex attraction you know, in the medieval period and stuff like that, often it was just like a kink. But like obviously you never get married, right? Like, you never engage that far with your kink.

And I think that’s probably okay. I don’t know. We’ll think about it longer.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Something to ponder.

Malcolm Collins: Any thoughts on the episode today?

Simone Collins: There seems to just be very, I, I really appreciate the [00:57:00] comments that were like, just very grounded, reasonable theories, like a combination of things that I think are all very plausible.

Among them being people who are bisexual are probably more likely to be dis dissatisfied with their existing sexuality and exploring more, and people like that are more likely to be overall less happy and have other issues in their lives. Plus also that there, there may be kind of like a sampling error and that a lot of people who call themselves bisexual may also be trans and be undergoing all these other additional issues and stuff and, and, and be straddling identities, different identities in a way that one person said it was maybe akin to being mixed race or identifying as mixed race in the United States.

Yeah. Where there’s additional stress of never feeling like. Like any team totally backs you. You know, you’re, you’re kind of, you’re not accepted into any category at that point, and that sucks. So I really, I’m glad that we asked everyone to weigh in because the,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, [00:58:00] there’s a lot of fun.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and it’s cool with comments too, because you can see more broadly what resonates with a lot of people by how many up votes the comments get.

So you can kind of see like, okay, well this seems to be the consensus in terms of a theory.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. That’s really cool. All right. Mm-hmm. All right.

Simone Collins: I love this spot. Now, this community is, is just so great.

Speaker 13: Oh wait, are you super tighten? Right? I’m on that. Okay. Here, I’m gonna put on your mask here. No, I just only wear when it’s Halloween time. It’s Halloween time. The mean. You mean it Halloween? Yeah. Let’s have a look at the mask. Pull it up. Pull it up so you can see out of it. No. Can we get so Tan Titan?

Yeah. Do you like being super titan? I do.

Are you a scary dragon?

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the surprising statistics and social dynamics surrounding bisexuality. They explore mental health trends, relationship patterns, discrimination, and the unique challenges faced by bisexual men and women.

From discussions about societal perceptions, sexual satisfaction, and the intersection of identity and privilege, to personal anecdotes and a deluge of data, this conversation is both thought-provoking and candid. The hosts question common assumptions, analyze studies, and share their own experiences, all while keeping the tone engaging and relatable.

If you’re curious about why bisexuals often appear as outliers in so many statistics, or want to better understand the complexities of sexual orientation, this episode is for you. Join the conversation in the comments—Malcolm and Simone want to hear your theories!

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and check out our other episodes for more deep dives into fascinating social phenomena.Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. Today is gonna be an interesting episode. That is an episode that was spurned from something that happened as we recorded other episodes, some of which haven’t even gone live yet. But basically we occasionally, when there’s a sexual statistics, we’ll go through them and we’ll be like, oh, what’s going on here?

What’s going on here? Right? Because,

Simone Collins: yeah. Do people typically break things down by, are you gay? Are you straight? Are you lesbian, or are you bi, or are you trans? And then.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and every time we’ve done this, there’s been this little phenomenon that I always throw out in the moment, right? It’s always like, well, you have the straight people who are typically doing pretty well.

Then you have the gay people that are typically doing middling. Then you have the trans people, which are typically doing pretty bad.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then for whatever reason. You have the bi people who are off the charts doing bad.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which is weird because if I was thinking about it, I would think that the, the, the data would typically [00:01:00] go straight, bi, gay, trans.

Simone Collins: Yeah. ‘cause especially like if you’re bi, it’s almost like you get the best of all worlds. Like if you wanna live your best gay life, you get to do that. If you wanna live your straight life and conform with society, you could do that like.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the last thing I would’ve expected was straight gay trans bi.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Like you’d think that that, that you, you’re all-terrain. You’re all-terrain Sexual. Well, like why is this

Malcolm Collins: an all-terrain sexual? Yes. Yes. No. So let’s dig into this, because one, when I look into it, you find it in any statistic you’re looking at.

Simone Collins: That’s the thing that always shows up, and we always have other things to talk about so we don’t dive in.

But what? What is going on?

Malcolm Collins: All right, so let’s start with a graph here. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: so this graph is mental health bisexual orientation.

Simone Collins: Okay. Oh boy. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: so on the far left, you’ve got hetero female. Okay. They’re doing pretty well. They’re in the positives here.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: and then hetero male. Oh, the [00:02:00] only other group in the positives.

That’s nice. That’s nice.

Simone Collins: Good for them. Okay. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: so who’s got the next best mental health? Just a little bit down in mental health. Okay. Gay males.

Simone Collins: Honestly, I’d expect them to do better. So this is a little surprising, but Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Pretty close to fine. Okay. Then who’s, who’s doing next best? Okay. Just a about twice as bad as gay males.

All right. Here you’ve got gay females. Okay. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Okay. Let’s look at bisexual females because they’re the next down.

Simone Collins: Oh boy.

Malcolm Collins: They are doing about five times worse than gay males.

Simone Collins: Whoa,

man.

Malcolm Collins: Like significantly worse.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, but then the FARs is down, is bisexual males.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s,

Malcolm Collins: which is just off the charts

Simone Collins: down.

That’s so weird because like we talked about, like even I was just listening to some asthma gold today, being like, oh man, when I was a teen, I, I wished I were gay. ‘cause it would just be so much easier

Malcolm Collins: if I, no, I actually, before I went to puberty, I had the thought of like. [00:03:00] Life’s gonna be so much more fun if I’m gay.

Simone Collins: No, I think a, I think a lot of guys have that thought. And here’s the thing, like I think in some ways it can suck to be gay. ‘cause like let’s say you’re religious, right? And you wanna have a family, like you wanna pursue the sacrament of having a family. But like the idea. Of banging a woman is super repugnant.

Right. So that sucks. ‘cause then it’s, it would be really hard to have a family either. You have to

Malcolm Collins: have a fear.

Simone Collins: But if you’re,

Malcolm Collins: you’re not born, I wasn’t born in a religious family, you know, I didn’t have, you know, the Yeah.

Simone Collins: But even then, like if you wanna live a maximally, hedonic life, then it, it, it helps to be attracted to men because women are a lot harder to access.

And gay communities are super fun. But like,

Malcolm Collins: not only that,

Simone Collins: just to have the option, it’s like you, you’d be way better off either way.

Malcolm Collins: You one, know what your partner wants and can model that, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But then two, you, you can do things and pleasure maxing. Like there is nothing I can do as a straight man.

That’s like fire island. There’s nowhere I can go where there’s like a ton of women that wanna sleep with me. Right. Like if I’m a hot guy, there’s literally nowhere on earth I can [00:04:00] go that is even remotely like a gay cruise or fire island or something like that.

Simone Collins: Oh. But like the female equivalent.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah.

Where it’s just like everyone, there is a woman who wants to bang me. Right?

Simone Collins: Well, I mean there is, it’s like Epstein Island, except all the women are miserable and then they write, tell all books and talk about how terrible it was. And then you get Prince Andrew and your life is, is awful. So yeah, no, there really isn’t like, if only you know, prince Andrew was gay, this, none of this would’ve happened.

You know? Sad.

Malcolm Collins: I love you so much. You are such a wacko. But the point here being is this is confusing to me, right? Because. Okay. We can talk about where being gay might help you with hedonism. Maxing, which I think leads to more mental health problems. So I think that could be one of the reasons why there’s so much lower than

Simone Collins: spread people.

It works for some people,

Malcolm Collins: but, but Simone, what doesn’t make sense to me here? Mm-hmm. Right? Like if I’m just looking at this at face value.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Gay men are much more mentally healthy than gay women. Okay. But bisexual women are much more mentally healthy than bisexual males.

Simone Collins: Yeah. [00:05:00] What’s up with that?

That is, that is weird,

Malcolm Collins: Eric. And presumably the bisexual like male

Simone Collins: is No, actually, no, no, no, no, no. I, I think, I think maybe the issue though is that. All women are kind of seen as by, by default anyway, you know, like there’s this whole thing about, oh, you all go through your lesbian period in college,

Malcolm Collins: right?

No. Do you think that, do you think that the bi females are being watered down?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think, I think it’s kind of tacitly understood that all women are by anyway. Because like I said, it’s a trope to do your lesbian thing in college and to kiss a girl. I kissed a girl and I liked it as a song and like all this stuff is just kind of, I think.

While people still view female sexuality largely on a Kinsey scale from like gay to straight, it’s really not, people actually understand intuitively that women really don’t care that much about gender. They may not go the, the step further required to understand that it really female sexuality more has to do with dominance and submission.

But they also understand that women just kind of don’t care as much about, the, [00:06:00] the gender of the person that they’re, they’re getting intimate with. So I think that the, the problem is that with men there, there is typically a much stronger polarization of attraction to primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

So when men deviate from that and are able to bridge the divide, they are seen as more. Weird, unusual. Like it’s one or the other. You know, you, you gotta be a, a magnet, you know, you’re, you’re a plus or a minus.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. So

Simone Collins: twos of team.

Malcolm Collins: But here’s the thing that, that makes sense. And I have a hypothesis here that I didn’t have it.

I was putting all these together, but we’re gonna get to more stats in just a second.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But like. I keep thinking to myself, why would bisexual men, be like by far the worst off.

Simone Collins: Yeah. ‘

Malcolm Collins: cause presumably if they want a hedonism max, they can do that.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: And if they want to live like a monogamous wife and have a family, they can do that as well.

Simone Collins: And isn’t that great? Yeah. Wouldn’t, wouldn’t. Most men want the option

Malcolm Collins: right? Here’s could be the answer. Okay. Okay. Okay. And it, [00:07:00] it’s a maximally offensive answer. Wait, can you guess what it’s gonna be? It’s something

Simone Collins: my mom used. Tell me. No, I don’t know because this doesn’t make any sense to me. I really don’t.

Malcolm Collins: Sometimes my mom used to always tell me, what, what, what do you think? Maybe she told me about bisexual men.

Simone Collins: Actually, I don’t know,

Malcolm Collins: they don’t exist. She said bisexual men are predominantly just gay men who are covering for it. And that would make sense. If bisexual is a self category for a self-hating gay, then it would make sense that they have so much worse mental health problems.

Simone Collins: Oh, because they’re just not, they’re, yeah, they’re like. Yeah, you’re not in the closet. You’re not out of the closet. You’re constantly slamming yourself in the closet door.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And there was actually a study done on this at one point and it showed that of men who identify as bisexual I think it was like 75% or might have been higher than that.

Actually only get aroused by one gender or the other. If you do like, you can. Attach like electrodes to their junk and show [00:08:00] them stuff. And who can

Simone Collins: sense to that? How much do you have to be paid?

Yeah, so, , doing a little too much from memory here. So let’s see what the study actually said. So the study I was thinking of was by Michael Bailey, and it was published in 2005 and it was called a Sexual Arousal Patterns in Bisexual Men. , The way it worked is a mercury and rubber strain gauge, a type.

Flimm graph. It’s like those things that they attach to your arms anyway, was attached around the member to detect changes in circumference as an indicator of erection. , This is the electrode to the junk thing that I mentioned here. , So, , . , The results, , bisexual men did not show a distinctly bisexual pattern IE strong response to both male and female stimuli.

Instead, their genital responses were more monosexual, mostly similar to gay men’s patterns, stronger arousal to male stimuli with some resembling straight males, stronger to female stimuli. The favorite doesn’t give an exact percentage break. Gown, but the NY times coverage on it, which, , was referenced, interpreted it at about three quarters, [00:09:00] 75% of the bisexual men having arousal patterns indistinguishable for gay men, the remaining quarter, similar to straight men.

In other words, few, if any, showed substantial genital arousal to boast genders equally, strongly, statistically, there was no significant quadratic relationship indicating a unique bisexual gender pattern. .

Malcolm Collins: Of those, I think is 75% of those were just attracted to men. And then like 25% were just attracted to women.

Simone Collins: Oh boy. That’s embarrassing.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway yeah. What is this Simone? You goof? He’s, you like looking at the kid?

Simone Collins: He’s me. Funny looks. He is just giving me funny looks.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, you know, it’s your, your. Biology there. Sorry. So let’s look at other things here. Any mental illness in the past year? Okay. So let’s look at this.

Simone Collins: Okay. Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, bisexual, we’ve got 50% lesbian. We’ve got. 25% heterosexual,

Simone Collins: 25% of having mental problems or good mental health

Malcolm Collins: had a mental health illness. So I find this interesting ‘cause it shows that gay and lesbian [00:10:00] were a bit above heterosexual, but around the right range uhhuh. Whereas they were half of what bisexuals were.

If you look at serious mental illness, so that was any mental illness, serious mental illness, bisexuals, it was 19% gay or lesbian, it was 6%. Heterosexual was four or 5%.

Simone Collins: Whoa.

Malcolm Collins: Major depressive episode bisexuals, 26% gay and lesbian, 14%. Heterosexuals, 10%. Whoa. Unloving attempts 26 to 36%. Bi. Mm-hmm. The gay higher one is lesbian, 30%.

So over here I’ve been reading, which ever was higher, gay or lesbian, and it’s been lesbian every time. Chase who

Simone Collins: is,

Malcolm Collins: And then less than 5% for straight depression or anxiety risk. Bisexuals are again, 1.5 to two x higher. Okay, let’s go next. Here. Here’s some interesting ones. Inter, inter partner violence.

Simone Collins: Well that’s gotta be lesbians, right?

Malcolm Collins: No, very interesting here. Okay, so, female to male, heterosexual, inter partner [00:11:00] violence. So, and, and this is the level to which they’re a victim of it. Okay. So, women are a victim for men. 35% of the time. Men are a victim from women 29% of the time.

Simone Collins: And that’s gotta be, that’s gotta be higher because I bet it’s really under-reported, but Sure.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I’ve heard ones of those that show that it’s actually higher for women to men, but you know, we’ll get to because we see it on air. Like I’m sure Macron wouldn’t say that he’s a victim of it, but he obviously

Simone Collins: Exactly.

That’s the point. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Male to male, gay. Remember women, it was 35% men, it was 29%. It’s 26% so below and there was a piece recently by Emil Coard that argued that when you correct for the fact that gays pair up less as, as getting relationships less, it’s actually slightly higher. Like gays will be within another partner without defining themselves as a partnership.

And so you really only get the very best partnerships claim they get. It doesn’t matter. We’re not gonna go into [00:12:00] that. The point being is that gays are probably at around the rate of heterosexuals or maybe a bit lower. Okay. Lesbians. Of course really high as you know, 43.8%. Oh,

Simone Collins: ouch.

Malcolm Collins: But here’s where it gets interesting.

Bisexual women, 61.1%.

Simone Collins: What

Malcolm Collins: higher than lesbians? And, and bisexual men. Are also one of the highest categories. 37.3%, but still less than lesbians. Wow.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now let’s look at physical violence rates. ‘cause this is where it gets really interesting. Okay. Women, 29.8% in heterosexual relationships. Men 26.3%.

Gays again, lower 24% lesbians, again, higher, 36.3%. But what about bisexuals? This is physical violence. Women at 55.1%. Over half, over half of women who are bisexuals have e experienced physical violence from their partner. And for males it’s 27%. Okay, let’s go to the next [00:13:00] category here. Severe physical violence.

What’s this gonna be? Women? 23.6% women. 13.9% gays in between this time, 16.4%. Okay. And lesbians, again, topping everyone at 29.4%, except for, and I couldn’t find the numbers for bisexual men here, but I found it for women.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Women for severe physical violence, if they were bisexual, 49.3%. Almost half of bisexual women are severely physically abused.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Now someone needs to, wow, man. So like if you have a bisexual friend, ask them if they’re okay today.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Right. Know

Malcolm Collins: grape threats. I couldn’t find it for male to male or female to female, but I could find it for women. How frequently they get this from their partners if they’re gonna heterosexual relationship.

Okay. It’s 9.1%. Bisexual women is 22.1% twice the rate. You see what I mean? Like, these numbers are everywhere, even where you wouldn’t expect them. Yeah. Okay. Let’s look at this is from the longitudinal study of [00:14:00] adolescent and adult health. So we’re looking at have they undergone physical violence, forced intercourse or threatened violence?

Okay. Okay. So bisexual males physical violence, 11.1%. Threatened 18.5, forced intercourse, 17.1%. So let’s compare that to heterosexual males. You get 4.9%, way lower 10. 10% that’s for certain violence. And then forced intercourse 4.9%. So like dramatically, like orders of magnitude lower.

If we go to bisexual women. This is also gets pretty interesting. So, forced intercourse only 2.6%. Remember in bisexual males it was 17.1%.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And a heterosexual woman is 1.4% only. But some like way lower than the bisexual woman. It’ll exist on, on screen here, but basically you’re seeing the same patterns here.

A, the key insights from this study, bisexual males were notably higher [00:15:00] rates of forced blank perpetration compared to heterosexual males was odds adjusted five times higher After controlling for demographics than other factors, bisexual female showed modestly higher rates of physical violence and threaten, violence perpetrated than heterosexual females. The differences were not always statistically significant. Okay, so a 2022 systemic review of 78 quantitative studies on domestic abuse perpetration among, sexual minorities, including bisexuals, found consistent evidence that bisexual individuals perpetrate IPV at a higher rate than gays and lesbian people of various forms.

So goodness, they aren’t just subject to it at higher rates. They also do it at higher rates.

God,

Malcolm Collins: if you have a bisexual partner, you are much more likely to be abused by them than you are if you don’t have a bisexual

Simone Collins: partner. If I can get like the, like mental health rates and stuff. But this, this, this violence and abuse.

I don’t [00:16:00] understand. Do you have any theories behind it?

Malcolm Collins: Well, let’s, let’s go to more, let’s go to more statistics here, because as the statistics maybe you’ll be able to piece these together and begin to pick out what could be causing this. Okay?

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so let’s look at dissolution rates for couples.

Okay. What’s their probability of breaking up? Okay. This is within five to 10 years. So, lesbians it’s 12 to 14%. That’s two to three x the gay rates and 1.5 to two x the heterosexual rates gays, it’s two to 27%, so very low over five to 10 years, right. Heterosexual. It is baseline eight to 22%.

But with bisexuals it’s 1.5 times higher. Oh, awesome. So, you’re looking at slightly higher than gays. Slightly less than lesbians. If you, let’s look at poverty, right?

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. This one might surprise you.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Would expect poverty. Wait, I’m, I’m gonna say poverty is gonna be lower among bisexuals.

‘cause I would also expect [00:17:00] bisexuality. To correlate with growing up in a more wealthy environment.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so, poverty for gay and lesbians, it’s 14% is a higher number. And this is for lesbians.

Simone Collins: Okay? For

Malcolm Collins: bisexuals it’s 30%.

Simone Collins: What? Why?

Malcolm Collins: And it, it’s at two for, for buys. It’s at two to four x. The hetero rate exceeded.

Why?

Simone Collins: That’s so weird because I just, like, I, I, I typically associate poverty with being in like more rural, more conservative areas, especially in the United States, and you’re just less likely to see people who are exposed to culture that presents being buy as an option. You know? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It’s the same with SNAP assistance.

You’re much more likely to be on SNAP assistance if you’re bi.

Simone Collins: What? That’s so weird.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. You see, I told you this, this is getting weird, right?

Simone Collins: Yes, it is. I You don’t think

Malcolm Collins: this rabbit hole would get this weird, but it gets No. There’s something going [00:18:00] on with BI people.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So let’s look at the BRFS analysis.

Okay, so we’ve got sexual orientation here and we are looking at, yeah. So this is substance abuse.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s look at

Simone Collins: substance abuse. Oh yeah. Substance abuse disorder or something. Yeah. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: Oh, substance use disorder. SUD. Yeah, that makes sense now.

Okay.

Malcolm Collins: I’m okay. So, for women for straight women it’s 13.8%. For lesbians, it’s 26.5%. For bisexual women, it 32.2%.

Let’s get men for. Straight men, it’s 20.7% for gay men at 32.2%. For bisexual men, it’s 32.4%. Not chopping the part chart as much, but still chopping the chart across. See the patterns holding.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Let’s look at alcohol specifically. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Is

Malcolm Collins: this gonna, is this gonna buck our trend here? Hmm. [00:19:00] Heterosexual women, 9.1% lesbians, 15.9% bisexual women, 17.3%. Not bucking the trend. Okay, let’s go with men here, right? Heterosexuals, 13.5%. Gay men, 18.9%. So significantly higher in gay men. Note that bisexuals 15.7%.

The first one to buck the trend.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: bisexuals don’t drink as much.

Simone Collins: Well finally.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s look at oh and alive attempts. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, heterosexual males, 0.4% gay males, 1% bisexual males, 1.5%. Okay. Heterosexual or straight women? 0.5% gay women. 0.9%.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Bisexual women, 2.1%.

Simone Collins: Whoa. The worst I would’ve expected because typically men are more likely to go for it, you know?

That’s interesting. [00:20:00]

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so let’s continue here. Homelessness and housing instability. Another chart here. Lifetime rates. For bisexuals, it’s lifetime instability, 32% current homelessness in use. 36% was in gays or lesbians. It’s 26% to 19%. Again, so much higher for bis discrimination.

Now this one was so interesting to me.

Simone Collins: Hmm,

Malcolm Collins: so interesting. So what you might say in a hypothesis could be. Is buys are more discriminated against than gays or lesbians because they are discriminated against within the LGBT community as being infiltrators are not real or not, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Their identity is constantly invalidated.

I mean, this is true. You do see that. I mean, you had me saying maybe buys aren’t real.

Simone Collins: Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. Here

Malcolm Collins: we are

Simone Collins: perpetuating the issue, so let

Malcolm Collins: how to explain it right Uhhuh, if this follows the same trend we’ve been seeing.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: All right.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Bisexuals let’s, let’s see. [00:21:00] Their, their amount of discrimination.

All right, so social acceptance of LGB, right? Like, do they feel that this is within their environments, all right?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: For lesbians, it’s 31% was gays, it’s 39% was bisexuals. It’s 20%.

Simone Collins: What,

Malcolm Collins: so slightly lower, but not as lower as you would expect from these other

Simone Collins: times. Why is none of this going the way I would expect?

Malcolm Collins: Out to important people? With lesbians it’s 71%.

Simone Collins: What, what what does out

Malcolm Collins: basically is like, are you out about this to your family and friends?

Simone Collins: Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So lesbians at 71%, gays at 77%. Bisexuals is only 28%.

Simone Collins: That makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: Well, maybe they don’t have to be as out. Right. You know, like,

Simone Collins: yeah, you can do whatever you wanna be because yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But maybe that caught. Maybe it’s like having to live the lie is the bigger thing here or something. Okay. Workplace harassment. With, with bisexuals it’s around [00:22:00] 66%. And Gaze, it was lower than that, but I don’t know the exact numbers.

Simone Collins: That makes sense. I actually am in, in the middle, or I just started reading a book called Whistleblower, which is a, the, the Tell All book because I’m on a Silicon Valley. Tell all book

Malcolm Collins: you love

Simone Collins: those like tears. I’m crazy about them. I loved Bad Blood, I loved Burn Book by Kara Swisher. I, I really enjoyed careless people by Sarah, whatever her name is about. Facebook and now I’m on whistleblower and this is by a female employee at Uber.

And guess what? Already, like right at the beginning she just drops it. She’s bisexual. Totally not relevant as far as I’m concerned so far. I don’t know why she had to bring it up, but yeah, like she’s bisexual and she’s,

Malcolm Collins: all of these whistleblower books are like ultra urban monoculture people trying to infiltrate organizations that aren’t urban monoculture and it’s their struggles to force the organization.

That’s what the Facebook one was.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don’t know. I, I, I don’t, I don’t think the person who, like so far, the person who wrote this Uber book, while bisexual is [00:23:00] not coming across as super urban monocle. I mean, I guess she is because her entire, while she came from a hyper religious family of five that grew up in a severe poverty.

Her entire aspirational youth, like Young Adulthood, was oriented around entering the university system and navigating it. So she basically got a guest, urban monoculture fired within that part of her life, arguably. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I mean, it is notable that she’s harassed, whistleblower and also very su superfluous or gratuitously.

Bisexual, like, I don’t know, like most people don’t like start out books of like. You know, I, I, I don’t, I wouldn’t start my biography being like, you know, I,

Malcolm Collins: this is what I, it’s not even her

Simone Collins: biography. I’m sexual, you know,

Malcolm Collins: it’s about you being at a company, right. Like you Yeah. Your day job.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: you start it with, let me tell you what I do with my vagina.

Simone Collins: Well, and also, but, but like you, you can be sexually harassed and [00:24:00] be. Gay, straight, bi, lesbian, or asexual or trans, like, it doesn’t really matter. You know, like, it doesn’t matter what your orientation is, what matters is what other people did to you. So yeah, I, I did find that notable. It’s interesting.

Anyway, carry on.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway so to continue here mm-hmm. Let’s look at social isolation between these communities.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Because, you know, we were talking about, well, maybe they’re more discriminated against, maybe they’re more like less out there.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: and so with men for straight 10.2%, gaze, 15.4% and then bisexual, it’s 18.7%, so slightly higher, but not enough to explain the other results with women.

For heterosexual, it’s 12.1%. For lesbian, it’s 16.8%, and for bisexual it’s 19.5%.

Simone Collins: I don’t, don’t mean bisexual is strictly a privilege. Again, you’re the altering,

Malcolm Collins: more socially isolated. If you’re bisexual,

Simone Collins: you have you. You’ve [00:25:00] doubled the options of everyone else. I don’t, I’m so confused. I’m so confused.

Malcolm Collins: Double the options people.

I love the way you look at things. So delightful. You have double the options.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I should be the, the, the most, right? Like if, if I grew up as, as asexual gay for Malcolm like, I, I don’t know what, what is it supposed to be? Like heteroromantic, I, I can’t remember what, whatever. But like you’d think asexuals are, are the, gonna be the most miserable, right?

Because they have the fewest options or something. By people. This is so confusing. No, I want answers. Malcolm. Give me answers.

Malcolm Collins: You want

Simone Collins: answers?

Malcolm Collins: Well, we’re gonna make it even more confusing here.

Simone Collins: No, what is wrong with just install? Okay, go on. Go on.

Malcolm Collins: So again, you look at some of this recent data and you might be moving towards the.

Sure. Well, maybe bisexuals just get it in their head that they’re more discriminated. Right? Yeah. And that leads to all of these downstream effects, [00:26:00]

right?

Simone Collins: I mean, so many of the mental issues that we’ve discussed throughout this podcast, throughout our relationship, throughout whatever, yeah. Really does have to do with contextualization.

If you see yourself as a victim or if you even, even with really harmless, non polarizing things like sleep poor sleep, people who believe they’ve slept poorly. Experience more symptoms than people who think that they’ve slept well, report having slept well, but per a sleep lab analysis, sleep poorly.

So believing you have a problem, it can be way worse than actually having a problem, even if it’s, you know, something as non mental health issues. So

Malcolm Collins: we’ve got a hypothesis.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, now we’ve got a study here. The National Probability Survey from 2019 of 100, sorry, 1,617 LGBT adults.

Simone Collins: Okay. Decent sample size.

Okay, great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so microaggressions and offensive comments. All right. Gay men, 57% experience it. Gay women, 55% experience it.

Simone Collins: Huh?

Malcolm Collins: Bisexual men, 50% [00:27:00] experience it. Bisexual women, 48% experience it.

Simone Collins: But so

Malcolm Collins: fewer were

Simone Collins: out

Malcolm Collins: 68% fewer

Simone Collins: and, well, I, who I, I can’t even think of like a slur or insult or discrimination I’ve heard against by people.

Malcolm Collins: Well, me saying that I don’t think they’re real is probably one of the most common. Be like, oh, you’re just in the closet. When are you gonna come out of the closet? That’s a common one.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. Is that, is that discrimination? Anyway, they

Malcolm Collins: could just, okay, well let’s go to slurs. Okay.

Simone Collins: Well, wait. What’s a slur for a bisexual person?

Malcolm Collins: It’s this thing. I don’t know. One this, this, this could be it. This could be why they don’t get in it assaulted much, but for gay men, it’s 62% lesbian women. It’s 58% bisexual men is 55%. Bisexual women is 52%.

Simone Collins: I know, I know. Words that are not nice. For gays and lesbians and straight people. But what’s a word that’s not nice for people?

Malcolm Collins: I dunno. A butt traitor. What’s the, I’m gonna ask Google ‘cause I wanna know what are slurs for bisexuals?

Simone Collins: Yeah. [00:28:00] Okay. Me too.

Malcolm Collins: Behi and bi slut.

Simone Collins: What? I’ve never heard that before.

Malcolm Collins: These are lesbian forum words. Unicorns.

Simone Collins: That’s considered a, it’s a compliment. Yeah. Bahe bi. Oh, like buy hat, bi slut. Switch. Hitter. Ac DC. Straight gay.

Malcolm Collins: Confusing

Simone Collins: experience. Ter. In a phase, actually gay. Oh, I like, I like actually gay.

Malcolm Collins: Actually. Gay? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Other oth. Other regional or informal? Informal slurs or phrases? Sometimes language specific such as toothpick 57. Oh, toothpick and Portuguese. Meaning used by both sides. That’s fun.

Malcolm Collins: In in a phase.

Simone Collins: In a phase.

Malcolm Collins: He is in a phase. No, but I think that this shows that a lot of the gay community [00:29:00] doesn’t believe that bi people are bi Right.

By males, by male,

Simone Collins: yeah. Okay. Okay. So it’s, it’s only a slur in so far as someone is, is questioning the, the, your commitment? Yeah. Or like the legitimacy of your, but yeah. Okay. Wow. That I just, I don’t know, like comparing that to the slurs of other. Affiliations. All right, fine guys. You guys get really easily offended.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, let’s go to the no, but,

Simone Collins: but keep in mind that these people are also very mentally frail. So

Malcolm Collins: I guess, okay, let’s go, let’s go to sexual harassment. Okay?

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Gay men, 54% Gay women, 50%. Bi men, 48%. So lower Uhhuh bi women, 50%. So the same as lesbians. Transgender, 72%. I really doubt transgender people are being more sexually harassed.

I think that they just

Simone Collins: consider anything well, every time. Every time you’re, you’re misgendered, you’re arguably being sexually harassed, so ugh, if you’re not passing, and so many people,

Malcolm Collins: I feel, I would feel sexually harassed if a trans person. Took it upon themselves to feel [00:30:00] sexually harassed by me for misgendering them.

Simone Collins: Well, I also, so here’s the thing, like if you’re trans too, I feel like no matter how either insulting or accommodating someone’s trying to be, you could arguably be sexually harassed. Keep in mind, like, let’s say I’m trying to pass as a woman and I’m a trans woman. So let’s say someone’s trying really nice, oh, you’re, you’re great today.

Oh, you, you look so sexy today. Like, oh, your tits look great, right? Because they’re trying to like affirm. Your transition, but then they’re sexually harassing you as a woman. But if someone misgenders you, like, sir, would you please? And then, then they’re harassing you because they’re not affirming your gender.

So no matter what someone does,

Malcolm Collins: always the victim.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Then, then you’re gonna be sexually harassed. So I can understand the trans thing, but by, because also like the number of people who are out as bi is so low. How can people even know to insult you? I don’t know. I, I don’t know enough to, to make you feel bad.

Even if I wanted [00:31:00] to, I wouldn’t know. I’m so stressed.

Malcolm Collins: Violence and threats, violence and threats, we get 53% for gay men. 49% for gay women, 47% for bisexual men, 48% for bisexual women, 75% for trans. So again, about the same across the board here. Okay. Path of harassment,

Simone Collins: that sounds

Malcolm Collins: bad. 28% for gay men, 30% for gay women.

Really did that many gay women get bathroom harass? That doesn’t sound like something straight girls would do. I

Simone Collins: think, I think where gay women feel threatened and stuff is like men gooning, you know, like, like I don’t wanna watch you.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not bathroom harassment.

Simone Collins: I don’t know Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: Then bisexual men is only 25%.

Bisexual women is 27%. It’s like way lower here. And then transgender all is 65%. So I’m gonna stop right here for this one so that we have enough time for dinner. ‘Cause I realized that this is going on a bit longer than I thought. ‘cause there’s so many stats to go over

Simone Collins: because, oh my god, what’s [00:32:00] going on?

Malcolm Collins: What is going on? And you might wanna do some extra research yourself if you’re coming up with any hypotheses on these. In between the filmings.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I guess. Yeah. So, so this is end of part one of this episode, at least for our recording. We’re gonna try to figure out some answers and we’ll get back to you with a little spider.

No, not Spider-Man. Batman, interstitial. You didn’t, yeah. Did you, did you watch the old, the, the Live Action Batman?

Malcolm Collins: I’ve like seen clips of it, but I

Simone Collins: don’t You need to actually watch the real Live action Batman. It is, he’s little

Malcolm Collins: watching, watching this.

Simone Collins: I don’t know where I watched it actually. ‘cause I watched it when I was a kid, like on tv.

But the dude was a little tubby. Like it was great. ‘cause he wasn’t actually very toned at all. He’s just tubby,

Malcolm Collins: tubby guy beating up criminals.

Speaker 3: Welcome to Dunbar’s, Batman and Robin. What’ll it be today

Speaker 5: I am a little hungry.

Speaker 4: Of course, Robin, even crime fighters must eat and especially you. You’re growing boy and you need [00:33:00] your nutrition.

Speaker 5: Hamburgers,

Speaker 3: medium rare. May I recommend Bat burgers,

Speaker 4: bat burgers,

Simone Collins: there’s not even a lot of, it’s just ba like, it’s more like the sound effect. That, that harm the, the criminals and stuff. But he is like tubby and just wearing slightly stretchy

Malcolm Collins: clothes.

I can only imagine like that slightly tubby because he is a little tubby. I’ve seen it. And he pulls like a thing off his belt and he throws it at the guy. And I can just imagine. And life, it just like smacks the guy in the head and then likes, wow.

Simone Collins: It’s so, it’s so good. And also like the bat phone has this really distinctive sound that was used in a lot of electronics of the period.

Simone Collins: It said it exactly like my mom’s. Alarm clock. So then after, after that, like every time my mom tried to wake up, I’m like, it’s the backbone. Oh my God. So there’s just so many things about that show, but yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Why are you, you’re so delightful, Simone. You are a great wife, [00:34:00] a great mom, great husband. I really appreciate it.

Simone Collins: I really appreciate you. I’m so gay for you, or I’m so bi for you. I don’t know what I am for you, but I’m, you’re pushing the buttons. I have. I don’t know what they are.

Malcolm Collins: Store today. Looking for fish sauce, and I couldn’t find any. So,

Simone Collins: what store did you go to? Oh, you went to Redners.

Malcolm Collins: Redners. Oh, because I was picking up beer anyway, so it’s like, I’ll, I’ll check to see if they fish

off.

Simone Collins: I need, I need to get rice cakes. We need, we should have asked you.

Malcolm Collins: But we can what I might do is add a bit of chili oil when you’re reheating it.

Simone Collins: No, you know, I tried a little bit and I thought any more fish sauce would’ve ruined it. So I was glad I was short on it. Are you sure

Malcolm Collins: you could really taste the fish sauce, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. So when I saw te it tonight for your rice, I’m gonna put in some chili oil. I think that would be great. It could use a little more kick, but I would not put in more fish sauce if I were you. I think it’s perfect on the sway sauce. I think it’s, it’s great on everything else. It just needs a little kick.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Maybe a bit more pepper is, is, it feels very un unders spice. For a dish that’s supposed to be very spicy.

Simone Collins: I, well, I think if I [00:35:00] saute it in chili oil, it’ll do the trick.

Malcolm Collins: It’ll do the trick. Okay? Mm-hmm. And what else would I ask for? No, nothing else.

Simone Collins: Snuggles,

Malcolm Collins: Over rice. People often eat this with fried egg, but that seems like a lot to make.

Simone Collins: No, I can do a fried egg for you on top. Just fun. Why not, dude?

Malcolm Collins: Nice. And like

Simone Collins: you got the coop. I’ll give you an egg from Stalin. In, in honor of the Nick Fuentes week we’ve had.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That

Simone Collins: I cannot believe Tucker Carlson did not push back when he’s like, well, it was a meaningful day for me because I love Stalin so much.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: maybe he said he was gonna come back to that, but he never did. And I’m like, come on. Like, you don’t, you don’t let someone get by with like,

Malcolm Collins: I think he also said he liked Hitler and Integra Carlson never like pulled on that. Like,

Simone Collins: I mean, everyone acknowledges like the Hitler stuff, but like Stalin.

I mean, because here’s the thing, if you’re a H, this

Malcolm Collins: is why I’m saying Tucker Carlson’s a CIA asset.

Simone Collins: I guess if you’re a Holocaust denni and you don’t actually think that like there was a Holocaust, then maybe Hitler wasn’t that bad of a guy. [00:36:00] So like in that universe,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I I, I was the one who explained this to you.

I was like, yeah, it’s not so bad if you don’t, if

Simone Collins: he didn’t actually do it. If, if the cookies couldn’t have been, if that many cookies couldn’t have been baked, right. But Stalin, he’s not questioning what Stalin did and he just thinks he is great.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, here’s the thing I don’t get.

Speaker 7: Was a pedophile and kind of a pagan, it’s like, well, he was also really cool. So, you know, time to grow up. We’re not, we’re not children anymore. Am I right? Am I right? Am I right boys? Am I right? Let’s go.

Malcolm Collins: So he thinks Hitler is great.

Like there’s, there’s this one where he goes, you know, Hitler was sort of into like pagan stuff and Hitler was sort of into like. I think gay stuff or something. And then he’s like, but you know, he was still really cool. And I’m like, well, here’s the thing. Why do you think Hitler was cool if you don’t believe, believe the Holocaust happened.

Simone Collins: Universe though is like both the Holocaust didn’t happen and Hitler was gay.

Malcolm Collins: Right. [00:37:00] I, I’m like, why, why do you think that Hitler was cool if the a apparent reason for you thinking he was cool? I think it’s ‘cause he thinks it did happen just on a smaller scale, like a couple hundred thousand, which for him is at a cool level of genocide.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it, it was, it’s it, it, it’s small batch processing. It’s the microbrewery of genocide. All right. It’s still hip. You know, it’s, it’s the Edison bulb. Artisan,

Malcolm Collins: you are so going to hell for this. Damon.

Simone Collins: I, I really am art.

Malcolm Collins: Make jokes that are inappropriate for our audience,

Simone Collins: your artisanal genocide.

All right, I gotta go get the kids. And change a really poopy diaper. I love you. I love you so much. I’m Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: I might’ve, I might’ve enjoyed digging into Zoran. Menani more than Nick Fuentes, to be honest.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: no, was fascinating.

Simone Collins: Was fascinating.

Malcolm Collins: Because you really wanna know more about those bisexuals and what the heck is going on here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and I’ve, I’ve been thinking about it and I’m no closer to an answer. I, I really there because there are some conflicting things in here that [00:38:00] don’t make sense to me. So. I wanna hear some more evidence. I wanna maybe with more information, I’ll come to more of a conclusion,

Malcolm Collins: maybe with more points for triangulation.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: We’ll find out what is wrong with the bisexuals.

Simone Collins: We must triangulate the, the problem.

Malcolm Collins: But it is, it is, it is fascinating. So, okay, so I decided to be like, okay, like let’s look at other things like you know, conscientiousness and stuff like that. Yeah. I was like, maybe what it is is this is gonna correlate with some personality trait and everything’s gonna make sense, right?

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So I decided to go to conscientiousness as a personality trait. Right. So, if you look at men heterosexuals, they’re at 33 to 35 on this. If you look at men gay, they’re at 31 to 33 on this, so about the same. Okay. And if you look at bisexuals, they’re at 30 to 32 on this, so they’re a little lower.

So, so basically gay men are a little less conscientious than straight men, and bisexual men are a [00:39:00] little less conscientious than gay men.

Simone Collins: You’d think that gay men would be more conscientious. I mean, think about how much. Effort they have to put in just to looking good to other men.

Malcolm Collins: I know, right? It is interesting, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So with women we get for straight women at 34 to 36 for gay women, 34 to 36, so exactly the same consciousness levels. For bisexual women, it’s lower 32 to 34. So it is still following this pattern of bisexuals being the outlier but not in like as big a way as you would think.

Right.

Simone Collins: Right. Yeah. And also like what if that’s just downstream or highly correlated with mental health problems, which we’ve also already

Malcolm Collins: seen. Right? So, then there’s, you know, me coming in here and you know, my answer is always gonna be, it must be that there’re more urban monoculture infected then other populations because bisexual is an identity that fundamentally you can choose.

Yeah. While gay and. Maybe [00:40:00] lesbian are less choices of identity sometimes. Because if you are like genuinely attracted to both genders, you can just choose to ignore one, right? Like, so I thought, well then maybe that means that these people are more urban monoculture cooked than other populations, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. That would make sense. But, but then actually,

Malcolm Collins: but here’s the problem.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So. What would he be a good proxy for that, right? A good proxy for that being trans would be how they vote. Oh,

Simone Collins: okay. So,

Malcolm Collins: so, let’s hear, look at voting patterns, right? So what percent lean left versus what percent? Lean, right?

Okay. Straight men, 40%. For 40 to 45% left-leaning, 50 to 55% Right-Leaning. Okay. Gay men. And this must have been from a while ago, ‘cause I know it’s moved pretty big since then. But back then, and this is around when all of these other data points were collected, it was around 70 to 80% Democrat, 15 to 20% Republican.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But if you look [00:41:00] at Byman. They’re more Republicans, 60 to 70% liberal Democrat leaning 25 to 30% Republican leaning. So they seem to be less captured by the urban monoculture than the gay male population. Let’s look at women here. With women it’s 50 to 55% Democrat liberal leaning to 40.

To 45% right-leaning. This is of straight women. But then when we go to gay women it’s 80 to 85% Democrat, 10 to 15% Republican.

Simone Collins: That’s checks

Malcolm Collins: out. You go to buy women, it’s 65% to 75% Democrat, 20 to 25% Republican. So they’re more wow Republican, buy women and men by dramatic

Simone Collins: market. So surprising.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Let’s go to mental health issues. But break it down by type of mental health issue. Maybe this’ll have the answer for us, right? So let’s look at just women here to start lifetime mood disorders. So for straight women, that’s 30.5%. [00:42:00] For lesbians, that’s 44.4%. So more in lesbians, but then in bi women.

It’s 58.7% lifetime anxiety disorders straight, 31% gay, 40% bi, 57%. So again, we’re seeing the same pattern. BIS off the charts on everything here. Depression for bis, for lesbian and straight women, it’s about the same. For buys is about two x the rate unloving chances three to 5% for straight women, 25% for gay women, 40% for by women.

By women are just off the charts. Okay. Substance use 8.5% for straight women. 20% for gay women, 25% for bi women psychological distress. They found it in, it, it, I think it was 72% higher. It’s difficult to tell what, what study this is from in bi women then straight and gay women. And if we’re looking at males here here is where we see a bit different of a pattern than we’ve seen before.

Okay? Yeah. So if you look at lifetime mood disorders, [00:43:00] you see 19.8% in straight men. 42.3% in gay men. So way higher than in gay women mind you. And 36.9% in bi men lifetime anxiety disorders. 18% in straight men, 41% in gay men, 38.7% in Biman. So again, down in Biman. And then the substance, well, that’s, yeah, the, these study seems to be less distinct.

Okay. So that’s where we are. That’s all the data. Can, can you piece anything from that?

Simone Collins: I feel like I’m just more confused than I was before.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I do realize that the first one I was looking at here, this was neuroticism. So, what it is is for heterosexual men 15 to 20 on whatever scale they’re using for gays is 25 to 35 for bis.

Okay. It’s 30 to 44, so slightly higher neuroticism.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: For women it was 18 to 22. There was no significant difference in gay women. But it was higher. Slightly for well actually that could be pretty big. 20 to [00:44:00] 40 for by women. So it could be higher neuroticism levels

Simone Collins: maybe. I mean, there, there’s so many ways in which there are outliers, so I don’t, I can’t chalk it up to neuroticism.

I mean, all these things correlate too, like you would expect these things to correlate. So I don’t find. I don’t find it surprising that if they have higher levels of depression, that you’re gonna see higher levels of neuroticism or higher levels of, of perceived discrimination, for example.

Malcolm Collins: Do we need to summon ala to the podcast to answer this question?

Is she gonna have a, an answer of what’s wrong with bi women by men too?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: What’s going on?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Maybe, maybe I can ask AI to summarize what ALA has said on what makes buy people different.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because this is I, I don’t, I don’t know if she’s answered this particular question yet, but it is a, but.

Pernicious question like the f the mystery fertility strip we did an episode on. If you haven’t seen that [00:45:00] episode, you should watch it if you like this one. It was pretty weird. Yeah. There’s like a strip down the Center of America that has like stupidly high fertility rates and there’s not an obvious reason why.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The f, the whole episode overlapping maps with it to try to figure out what map best overlaps to this weird strip in the middle of the United States.

Simone Collins: So according to her writing. That is ALA’s writing. Bisexual individuals, especially women, exhibit distinct patterns of attraction compared to both straight and exclusively gay individuals.

She notes that women display a more polarized arousal spectrum with bisexual women, often demonstrating optics at both the lesbian and straight ends, suggesting more flexibility or more switch in sexual orientation compared to men. Ala also highlights attitudes toward BDSM are defining, characteristic, noting that people with.

Preferences for BDSM sometimes termed BDSM, bisexuality or BD sexuality form a very distinct cluster, not always related to trauma, but instead [00:46:00] corresponding with how arousal, intimacy, and relationship references manifest. She suggests that some bisexual or queer individuals report a transformation in their sex drive and enjoyment when engaging in kink relationships, which may not happen with more vanilla sex.

For these people,

Okay. I didn’t fully gr what she was saying when Simone said this live, but it makes sense to me now in editing. , And it’s actually a very insightful point that only Alo would have because she has all of the data. Basically, she’s saying that bisexuality has a really high overlap with having an extreme amount of severe kinks that you want to engage in, in real life with other people, and that this may lead to, , well, and then obviously I’m saying here, a isn’t saying this here, that this may lead to the negative effects of bisexuality on individuals.

Simone Collins: sexual satisfaction appears strongly connected to the mode of sexual expression rather than only the gender of the partner. But see, that’s more just female sexual arousal.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. This doesn’t explain why bisexuals are off the charts and everything here. [00:47:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. In in community commentary on her data contributors propose that birth order and family dynamics may influence homosexuality.

Or homosexual and bisexual development with submissions indicating environmental and genetic factors. Again, that, that has nothing to do with this. So no ALA doesn’t, at least according to AI summaries

Malcolm Collins: not a, the reason I wanted to call ALA in on it is I think she’d find the problem Interesting.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the problem that no one has really tackled, like no one has called out. Something because everybody always is using this data to talk about something else, and so the weird bisexual outlier always gets blown off.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But

Malcolm Collins: I think when you really pull it all together, you’re like, there’s something going on with bisexuals.

Simone Collins: There needs to be like an ala bad phone, just like the red phone

Malcolm Collins: ala bad phone. What’s going on with the bisexual? What’s the

Simone Collins: ring tone of the alo bat phone? We have to figure that one out.

Malcolm Collins: But it’s, it’s a fascinating statistical phenomenon.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: It’s one that my go-to answer. It’s because they’re more [00:48:00] politically cooked, just doesn’t seem to fit the data.

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: So I don’t know. I,

Simone Collins: and also it, it doesn’t, you would think. Theoretically that it would just be a strict benefit, perhaps. I mean, one theory that I, I, I can posit at least in today’s day and age because most of these statistics are from fairly recent polling, is that we live in an era of choose a camp like you need to be in a category, and bisexuality just really hasn’t established a very strong identity as a unique.

Identity in the oppression Olympics in any sort of realm. And maybe that’s because among different sexual orientations, it actually comes from, from a pro position of technical privilege, even if it is not discussed as such, because you actually have more optionality than any group, even cis.

Malcolm Collins: I, I just had an idea and I’m gonna check it.

Okay. I wanna see if bisexuals are maybe having a, are much more promiscuous. [00:49:00] It

Simone Collins: could be,

Malcolm Collins: Because

Simone Collins: this

Malcolm Collins: could explain it.

Simone Collins: But, but, but in general, because bisexual people both are actually kind of privileged technically. And because they don’t really, oh,

Malcolm Collins: oh, we might have found it here.

Simone Collins: Wait, they, okay, so they’re more promiscuous.

Malcolm Collins: So bi bisexual men those who have sex with lesbian women, women have more sexual partners per year than either gay or straight men. Suggesting about 2.5 to 3.1 more partners annually,

Simone Collins: whoa.

Malcolm Collins: Compared to gay men, which is 2.6 partners. In terms of sexual activities like cyber sex, sexting, threesomes, both bisexual and gay men report higher engagement in those behaviors than straight men.

Bisexuals versus straight lesbian women, bisexual women show broader engagement in varied sexual behaviors of fellow masturbation, cyber sex, sexting, threesomes compared to heterosexual women. And often at similar rates to lesbian women. Bisexual women, however, report a slightly lower rate of orgasms compared to both straight and lesbian women.

58% [00:50:00] for bisexuals, 61.6% for straights, and 74.4% for lesbians in one study. Isn’t that fascinating that they’re getting off less than either straight women or lesbians? So it’s not a hurting her, it’s the men problem. It’s a, it’s a them problem. Lesbian women typically report the most sexual satisfaction.

However yeah, when they do have the highest rates of orgasm the frequency of partnered sex can be lower for lesbian couples and for straight couples, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In the first two years of a relationship 67% of gay male male couples have sex three times a week. 45% of straight couples do and 33% of lesbian couples do.

That is fascinating. It could be, it could be a frequency of sex issue.

Simone Collins: That having more sex leads to all these bad things.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I could see that, especially if this was multiple partners. Because your body could release like hyper stress responses. If you are a woman and you’re doing this, and if you’re a man and you’re doing it, especially if you’re doing it in a submissive position, which I think is probably [00:51:00] more likely for a lot of bisexual men, that could also cause weird stress responses.

Simone Collins: Well, but also to your point, like in any culture that maximizes hedonism. You’re, it, it’s almost a guarantee of misery when, when you try to pursue that. So perhaps this is also correlated or downstream of of, of hedonism maxing and that ultimately. Moving people more quickly toward the realization that they’re never gonna get the pleasure they seek, even though they’re seeking it more desperately than others.

Malcolm Collins: Which you mean sex doesn’t actually give you like any sort of meaningful, lasting pleasure.

Simone Collins: Correct. That’s interesting. I don’t know if I buy that. Maybe that’s just because I’m reading Whistleblower right now and the author is bi and she’s a completely miserable person, but she didn’t seem to necessarily spend most of.

Of her life that

Malcolm Collins: actually fits the

Simone Collins: pattern.

Malcolm Collins: She, she comes off, you were just,

Simone Collins: she’s miserable, but she’s not more promiscuous.

Malcolm Collins: You had a bee session about her for like 20 minutes this morning. My wife doesn’t go to an office to complain [00:52:00] to me about other women. She reads whistleblower books by progressives about their Silicon Valley jobs and then.

Every morning ideal was a session of her being like, oh, can you believe she did this, this, and this? Oh, I’m so glad I’m not her. Oh, she complained about her boss being pat the patriarchy. I I, I love this. I love this. This is, this is me sending you to work so I can have you do I. Do I do that about anyone?

I, I guess Ellie Eer is the only person we’re like, oh

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it’s so annoying.

Simone Collins: You do that. You absolutely do that. But yeah, I mean, she isn’t necessarily more promiscuous, so I’m not 100% sure I’d buy that, but I could, I could see that, and I find that very, but then, but then again, like you would assume also that increased sluttiness would, cor would correlate with more political progressiveness and it doesn’t.

Well, I mean, it [00:53:00] doesn’t have to, I mean, there’s lots of perfectly slutty conservatives

Malcolm Collins: in my community. It’s, I don’t know, you know, whatever. But look, this is for our, our

Simone Collins: one thing that I am thinking about though is remember in the times when we participated in group events like at Vibe Camp and at Less Wrong It, when a s did the lineups by body count.

Where she had every member of the audience line themselves up by the number of sexual partners they’d had in their lifetime. Mm-hmm. So you go from people who are virgins, like at one end of the line, and to people who have the highest body count at the other end. Invariably, you were always at the end of the line.

I mean, not the the final end end, but at the end you were the only cis straight dude. It was all dudes at the end.

Malcolm Collins: It was all dudes at the end, but most of them,

Simone Collins: but they were all bi

Malcolm Collins: by.

Simone Collins: They were, they weren’t, they weren’t gay. They were bi because I talked with them because I’m like, oh

Malcolm Collins: they were okay. So yeah, so all these guys who are, so this requires a bit more explanation.

So ala at her events and we’ve gone to a number of her events. She had [00:54:00] this shtick she does, which I love it, it’s fun. Where she lines everybody up by body count. And Simone’s always at one end. ‘cause she’s only slept with me. And I’m always at the other end because we haven’t mentioned this on the show, but recently, like we did it a lot in the early show and people used to comment like Malcolm bringing it up again.

But when I was like a teenager not a teenager, I’m, I’m talking like college, high school. You were a slept, you were,

Simone Collins: there’s no

other

Malcolm Collins: way to

Simone Collins: put

Malcolm Collins: it. I was like in the, the triple digits. Like well into the triple digits. And what I realized is that my level of sluttiness is almost. Unheard of in straight males potentially, because it’s just so hard to achieve.

Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I will say that many

Simone Collins: women to sleep

Malcolm Collins: with you is incredibly, it’s not worth it. It’s not fun. You find nothing at the other end of it, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah. And, and it’s risky. I mean, every time you sleep, I, especially today,

Malcolm Collins: getting somebody pregnant or something, which, you know.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Very dangerous.

However, yeah, I, I, I would when. When [00:55:00] going to these events, of course I want to like understand what’s going on with the people who are at these outlier ends. And it’s easy enough to know what’s going on with incel, but it, it is something that you wonder about with the people at the very high body count end.

And yeah, they were, I remember them like distinctly. Because at first I was like, well, they must be gay dudes. No, they were bi. ‘Cause I remember that really standing out to me when I, when I talked with them. And, and so that like bi very much part of like, sort of the group sex world of the Bay Area, if you know what I mean.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Like orgies,

Malcolm Collins: a good example is this is like destiny. Destiny seems like he probably sleeps around a ton,

Simone Collins: maybe, but also like, think about this. If you regularly go to orgies, I think it’s really easy to get a high body count, and especially if you are bi.

Malcolm Collins: Oh true. Yeah. And well, that’s gonna mess with your brain as well.

You know, you no guy wants to see another girl guy having sex with a girl. Well,

Simone Collins: appar no, not can do, you know how big kuck porn is? It’s huge.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, you’re right. We should do an episode on that, by the way.

Simone Collins: Yeah, we probably should. It’s just, I don’t know, it’s so dark. [00:56:00] I don’t know. It strikes me as very dark.

I don’t know if I wanna know more about it. But we publish

Malcolm Collins: like a top search term in Japan or something.

Simone Collins: Not, no, dude. No. Like. Globally, I think it, it’s, it’s astoundingly popular, which really confuses me because it’s like the nightmare scenario genetically speaking for men. Like that’s why I don’t, yeah.

I’ve

Malcolm Collins: explained this to you that you’ve got to keep in mind that cook porn is not just for men who get off.

Simone Collins: Oh, right. It, it can be for men who get off on the idea of being the. What do they call them?

Malcolm Collins: The

Simone Collins: bull Bull. The bull, yeah. I was gonna say stud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, yeah. So that, that, I guess the, the sluttiness hypothesis of bisexuals is, is gonna be our running theory for now.

Please chime into the comments with your theories. You two have listened in to this. This, this deluge of stats, maybe a better synthesis than we do. Yeah. I, I feel like people in, and

Malcolm Collins: if you come up with a good enough theory, we’ll do an episode on [00:57:00] it.

Simone Collins: Ooh. Yeah. I like that. I’m, yeah. ‘cause I still, I don’t feel completely satisfied with this, but the ala lineup experience does reinforce it so anecdotally, I feel like there’s some confirmation there.

All right. Thanks Malcolm. This has been elucidating. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you too. And I will point out that back when I slept around a lot, remember I was in a much worse mental state. Like I had, I ground my teeth, I had to wear like a night guard every night. I

Simone Collins: That’s true.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I was in a lot more daily stretch.

Simone Collins: And then when you, when you went monogamous. You were actually able to get rid of the night guard without completely ruining your teeth.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, I, I’ve wor a night guard in years and I would break my teeth if I didn’t wear it even one night back then.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I remember, I remember the night guard you had to bring it with you when you slept over at my, my little apartment, my little

Malcolm Collins: Alameda

Simone Collins: apartment.

Malcolm Collins: So I, I could be evidence here.

Simone Collins: Ooh. Okay. Well, good. I’m, I feel more sad. I was really worried we were gonna come out of this episode. Unsatisfied. Thank you for that. [00:58:00]

Malcolm Collins: All right, love you. Bye.

Simone Collins: Love you too. All right. I I think I saw.

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the political and cultural landscape surrounding Zohran Mamdani’s recent election victory. This episode explores the shifting priorities of progressive movements, the rise of new ideologies, and the complex interplay between identity, history, and policy. The conversation covers Mamdani’s background, his family’s influence, and the broader implications of his policies for New York and beyond. Malcolm and Simone analyze the narratives around colonialism, survivor identity, and the evolving definitions of discrimination and privilege. They also discuss the impact of socialism, rent control, and economic reforms on urban life, as well as the alliances and tensions among different communities. With candid insights, historical context, and a touch of humor, this episode challenges conventional thinking and encourages viewers to question the motivations behind today’s political movements. Whether you’re interested in politics, social change, or just enjoy thought-provoking discussions, this video offers a fresh perspective on the forces shaping our world.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be talking about Zhan Mandani who won the election. Overwhelmingly, I don’t know if you saw, but he won to such an extent where even if the Republican candidate hadn’t been running, he still would’ve won. He won was over 50% of the vote.

So

Simone Collins: 58% right? A

Malcolm Collins: lot. Just something like that. Yeah, like a lot. And this, when I saw this and when I saw a lot of election wins among Democrats, which I didn’t expect them to win as, as, as strongly as they did this cycle, especially among the more communist leaning branch of Democrats. It was sort of like a wake up call for me as I’ve seen Zo Ani as kind of like a joke, right?

Like, oh yeah, he is gonna screw up New York. You know, typical lefty nonsense a bunch of dumb policies, but I never really took the time to attempt to understand. Where he was, what he came from, what he stands for in terms of how politics are going to shift in this country. Because as I pointed out in the [00:01:00] episode now that the Gazen war is over right now, that environmentalism is over.

And like even we’ll do an episode on that where even Bill Gates, I dunno if you saw this recently, but he put out a thing being like the Gates Foundation is no longer gonna focus on environmentalism in the same way. Basically, like Greta said, it’s over. The Gates Foundation said it’s over.

Environmentalism is done. So I’m like, now that they don’t have environmentalism, now that they don’t have the Gaza War, now that trans people seem to be on the outs, even with progressives. What does progressive move to next? What does the cause move to next? And Simone hypothesized in that video, they’re gonna move towards communism.

They’re going to move towards forcible wealth, redistribution and authoritarian control of governments. And I heard that and I was like, oh, come on, Simone. That’s a silly hypothesis. But then I looked at the love that Zhan is getting and I’m like, I might have a smart wife.

Simone Collins: I know, man. Yeah. Who has bladder control problems and good predictive powers.

This lady ha ha [00:02:00]

Malcolm Collins: from the pregnancy, when you have

Simone Collins: kids, yeah. You just, you laugh and you pee, you sneeze and you pee. You’re running, you pee.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you’ve got a giant baby in you. You don’t have as much room for organs or storage. But anyway, you’re not making pregnancy sound very, we’re supposed to be selling pregnancy to our audience here, Simone.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, you don’t wanna sugarcoat it either. It’s, it’s a very common thing.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, so, no, but I was, I, I or maybe I should be scared that you can model them, so well, maybe you still have that, that urban monoculture in your mind.

Simone Collins: I 100% do, and everyone who watches this podcast knows that I, I, I serve as the defacto representative.

The medium.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. What are the ghosting, how, how are they speaking? What’s happening next?

Simone Collins: I have to see

Malcolm Collins: now. Well, you, I, I, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I think I was, I was wrong to not be as certain about it. And I wanna understand this guy. Okay. And understand him without the hyperbole and without the histrionics that you often get when Right-leaning people are talking about him or his policies.

Hmm. Because [00:03:00] I think there’s some aspects of him when I went through and studied his history and past that are hugely oversold. The biggest one being just how socialist he is.

Oh.

He’s really not as socialist as you would expect. He’s more just like an normal Democrat plus. The one that is undersold is how it’s very clear his goal is to turn the world into an Islamic state.

Simone Collins: What, what, okay, so that’s the undersold part. Oversold. This is socialism. Oh, few undersold Islamic State. What?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it is his extreme solidarity with terrorist organizations terrorist actors and terrorist related goals. O often tied towards Muslims in, in, in increasing their population to the point where they control governments.

And it makes sense when you look at his background. So, so if we’re gonna go into his background here and why he wouldn’t see this as a negative thing. [00:04:00] Right. So he was born on October 18th, 1991. By the way, does that make you sad? God, born in the nineties,

Simone Collins: he’s a child.

Malcolm Collins: He is in his thirties, but still, that makes me feel so old.

‘cause I remember when people would date girls born in their nineties and I’d be like, oh, that’s cradle robin. That’s like too young.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I was just like, Floran Mond. In Kampala, Uganda Mond is the only child of prominent parents. His father, Mohammud Mond, is a renowned academic in post-colonial studies, and his mother Aire is an acclaimed filmmaker for works like Moon.

So wedding and the namesake, both parents

Simone Collins: are Monsoon wedding,

Malcolm Collins: monsoon wedding. Yes.

Simone Collins: She made monsoon wedding. Damn.

Malcolm Collins: So, yeah, he was very wealthy growing up.

Simone Collins: Wow. That was a really big hit. I mean, it’s a great movie. I, I listened to the soundtrack constantly when I was a kid. Damn.

Malcolm Collins: Both parents are of Indian descent.

His father a Guari Muslim. [00:05:00] Born in Bombay now Mumbai and raised in Uganda with family roots in Indian diaspora across the Southeast Africa. And his mother a Punjabi pun, Punjabi Punjabi Hindu from RA Lenny India whose own mother founded the Saka Baka Salaam Baka Trust for Child Welfare. I can, Mondavi holds Uganda, US citizenship naturalized in 2018 and identifies as a Shia Muslim of the Twelver branch.

His middle name Ur Honors Ur Nur Ghana’s first president reflecting his family’s Pan-African leanings. Oh, one thing we’re gonna get into this, which I find pretty interesting. It’s despite his incredibly sort of Islamist goals mm-hmm. His Islamist goals are seen through the lens of urban monoculture, sort of communist agenda.

Like the people like at like university campuses and stuff like that. Uhhuh, not directly like [00:06:00] terrorists but in the way that they will like, you know, glaze terrorists. But well, but

Simone Collins: I mean, so, but if it’s urban monoculture Islamism, isn’t it just urban monoculture with a hijab?

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I mean, it’s calling for a global inata. Like it’s a, and we’ll get into what that means in the context of that. Okay.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But in the context of what it would mean to him, because what I wanna go over now, it’s like what his dad actually studied, what his dad actually wrote. So you can get an idea of the ideas that he was drenching.

But what I was gonna say is later we talk about how even they’ve been able to get support from Hasidic Jewish communities and leaders. Yeah, yeah. Understand

Simone Collins: endorsements. It’s crazy.

Malcolm Collins: Why, why would these groups be supporting him? And I think it is out of a what people often forget is that these communities are one in vulnerable positions within where they are in Manhattan.

And two, they are often anti-Zionists and want the Jewish state to be eliminated.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And so people forget that for religious [00:07:00] reasons. And I, I won’t go too deep into that. I might do another episode on that. Okay.

Simone Collins: Chime into the comments if you want it.

Malcolm Collins: But on this one Mond was the author of influential books such as Citizen and Subject, which introduced the concept of the bifurcated state in colonial governance, good Muslim, bad Muslim when victims become killers and neither settler nor native.

Simone Collins: So it’s like the Muslim version of Rich Dad Poor dad.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Yes. But I, I wanted to understand what, so, okay, so what is like neither settler or, or native about Yeah. Like what is the mind space that this guy is in? Right.

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. It argues that the modern nation state born from colonialism and nationalism inherently creates permanent minorities through the exclusion of certain groups leading to violence, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.

Mond traces political modernity back to 1492 with the Reconquista in Spain and European colonization of the Americas. Rather than the Treaty of Westphalia, he critiques the settler [00:08:00] native binary imposed by colonialism distinguishing settlers who arrive with a nationalist agenda from immigrants who seek shared homelands without exclusivity.

The book calls for de colonialization by depoliticizing identity, rejecting criminal justice approaches to mass violence like trials within trenched divisions, and instead fostering an equal citizenship among quote unquote survivors who recognize their shared colonialization. Alright. So can you sort of begin to picture what, what this guy, like, what his view of his own role is in society and what his view of how society works?

He sees America as a colonialist state by individuals who are not natives, right? They, they, they immigrated into this country with a nationalist agenda from Europe. And this is not, you know, factually untrue. Like I can see how,

Simone Collins: yeah, I mean, America was created by exactly that type of population.

People coming from other places to build. A city upon a [00:09:00] hill, their vision of a better world.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Now, what’s important to remember you, I was to critique his view is I would say, well, what you’re forgetting is that America was made up of a bunch of Native American tribes that were constantly murdering each other and taking each other’s land.

And not only that, but there were other native populations that had come from entirely different genetic waves that we’re now, now aware of, that the Native Americans that we encountered when we arrived here had completely genocided before taking over the region. So they had genocided, the previous population, taken their land.

We then came into the country and they were constantly fighting with each other and taking each other’s lands. And when we came into the country what the, the normative standpoint of Native Americans was, was, oh, there’s a bunch of European groups coming in here who all seem to hate each other. Let’s see if we can play them off each other to kill off the groups who we hate.

Right? Like this idea of native. Versus a colonist was not what was actually happening at the time of [00:10:00] colonization. No, I’m not saying what happened to Native Americans wasn’t absolutely terrible. It was probably the worst thing to happen through any group in if, if we’re talking about like discriminated groups in the world.

But in some ways the sort of UBI that was created for them through things like the casino programs and stuff like that, and we’ve talked about this in other episodes did. A huge amount of damage to them as well, right? Mm-hmm. So even the attempts to give them restitution have caused them a great deal of suffering.

Because as we’ve pointed out, re you know, restitution generally hurts the groups it’s given to and causes a, that’s, that’s a different episode, but Okay. In his mind what’s happened is America is a state that is created when European colonialists come over here. And then you have the survivor class of people.

Alright? So the survivor class of people is made up of two groups, alright? It’s made up of the actual native population, right?

Simone Collins: Okay. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: And then it’s made up of anyone who voluntarily immigrates [00:11:00] to the country who isn’t white, broadly speaking. So this would be Indians, this would be Arabs, this would be Africans.

This would be anyone like him is in this survivor group because he would see his native environments as being disrupted by colonialism. You know, that’s what they always blame whenever their countries go bad. And I, and I point out all, all the time that there are lots of places where colonialism happened.

And they are. Doing really well these days and there are lots of places where colonialism happened that are doing terrible these days. Yeah. And there are lots of places where colonialism never happened and they typically do more similar to the places with similar cultures to them where colonialism did happen and are doing bad than to the places without a similar culture to them where colonialism didn’t happen.

So, like, as an example of this, Ethiopia was never colonized.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But Ethiopia is much closer, you know, economically in terms of the, the struggles that they’re facing as a [00:12:00] country to the culturally similar, more colonized. Than it is to, let’s say, Asian countries that were colonized, which are often much more similar to each other than they are to African countries that were colonized.

So the point here, or Native American countries that were colonized or, you know, south American countries that were colonized. And so the point I’m making here is colonialization doesn’t seem to define a country’s instate. It appears what plays the bigger role in defining their instate is the population that is running that country or the majority in that country.

Yeah. And and I don’t necessarily mean this from a genetic standpoint, I might mean it from a cultural standpoint. Right. Where I’m saying, you know, the, the colonialist outcomes across Latin America are very similar. The colonialist outcomes across Africa are generally fairly similar. Mm-hmm. And the colonial outcomes across Asia are pretty similar, but they’re all radically different from each other.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s not necessarily that there were different colonial systems in those areas because the colonial systems differed more from each other based on which country was colonizing the country, [00:13:00] not based on where that country was in the world. Okay. Or, or as much Anyway, sorry. Big tangent there.

But what I’m trying to do is explain that in his worldview, he is part of this victim class that has a, a, a mandate to take back the colonialist countries from the settlers. Mm-hmm. The, the, the, the whites basically, and this helps understand better when I was talking about like the weird ideology that Greta Thornberg had moved into and stuff like that.

Right. Trying to understand what she meant when she said colonialism is the reason for environmentalist problems, right? Or what they mean by Israel is colonial estate, right? Like I,

Simone Collins: that’s really more like capitalistic white people.

Malcolm Collins: Not exactly. So let’s look at the case of Israel, right? If you’re looking at Israel with, I think any sort of an honest historical lens the Jews were displaced by, from their land, by empire imperial systems [00:14:00] that made it very unpleasant to live there.

So colonizers came into their country, took it over, displaced them, and then they came back. The, the native people of this land and retook the land from people who are often provably not native populations. Mm-hmm. And I was always confused like, how can you say that they’re the colonizers? Right? Right.

That seemed very, but it makes perfect sense if you go to the logic of Mond’s father. Okay. Ah so if you go to the logic of Mond’s father, being a colonist is defined by the idea of nationalism for your state or land, right? Mm-hmm. To the Jews being, having a state and a state that is theirs to the exclusion of any random person that wants to migrate into it, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They are the ultimate colonist in his mind. Now obviously none of this makes sense if you look anywhere else in the world like Asia, right? But if you’re looking at [00:15:00] it from this very narrow lens of like Africa, the Middle East Europe and the United States and Latin America this worldview can make sense, but now it makes sense to you.

Why Mond when he sees people out there, you know, murdering Jewish people, or he calls for a global Fatah, which he has called for?

He has, okay.

Fatah’s. What they were was times in Israel’s history when people rose up the, the, the, the Arabs was in Israel or the, the Muslims was in Israel and started murdering Jewish people.

To try to take back the state.

Simone Collins: So what’s the, wait, sorry. I’m really not actually that well versed on the term. Tata. What is the difference between an Tata and a pogrom?

Malcolm Collins: They’re, well, okay, so this is the way they would describe the difference. Okay. I don’t think that they are actually technically that different.

A pogrom they would say is when Jews were living in a non-Jewish state, and the king [00:16:00] or ruler of that state decided that they would eliminate the minority Jewish population.

Simone Collins: Okay. Was it in Tata is is when the Jewish is the majority population

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. With the Jews as a majority population and you attempt to eliminate them.

But remember if you hear like, because I, I’ve been listening to more Nick Fuentes stuff recently to try to understand his perspective on things and he talks about talking points and I can only guess he’s getting from people like this about like global Jewry and everything like that.

Simone Collins: Oh, you actually nailed it.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, no, but I’m really trying to understand them from their own

Simone Collins: perspective. I, I just checked on AI for those, not

Malcolm Collins: I, I, ‘cause only you see, you see I’m beginning to get Mond brain. I’m beginning to understand how all of this makes sense to him.

Simone Collins: No, no, no, no, no. The Tata versus pa pogrom. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah.

But the reason I’m able to explain this to you, even though I haven’t read this, is because I’m getting to understand where he’s coming from. Oh. And when you understand where he’s be coming from and where the people who are like him are coming from, you can understand why I got a, before I got into prenatal with just, I started having [00:17:00] kids.

I remember somebody who hated me on Facebook sent me a thing saying I was colonizing the world was my white sperm. And I was

Simone Collins: like, that’s right. Yes you were.

Malcolm Collins: What are things, are you talking about

Simone Collins: Uhhuh?

Malcolm Collins: If you have this mindset. All of a sudden it makes sense.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: The very concept of the nationalist NATA nation state and the idea of like an English identity or a French identity, or a Jewish identity or an American identity, the very reason why you can’t have this, right, it’s, he says that we should have a globalist.

Survivor identity. And the survivor identity is anyone who was displaced by the colonialist system, IE anyone who migrated for economic opportunity in one of the countries that the colonialist made economically prosperous. It’s, I mean, it’s not like he was forced to move here. He moved here because he wanted economic opportunities, but that’s not the way he reframes it.

He reframes it as those economic opportunities were taken from him because of colonialism and therefore he has a, a [00:18:00] right to come and take them within other environments. But this also shows you why they’re so pro-immigration and so pro mass immigration, right? Mm-hmm. Because they believe that the survivors have a mandate to move into these environments.

Simone Collins: I see. Okay. Okay. Sur survive. Wow. Wow. What, what a thing.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so sorry. In this, in this kind of cool, when you see this, right? Like I, I, I, I now am beginning to see where they’re coming from. So we’ll go further with his beliefs and his politics here. Okay?

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah, please,

Malcolm Collins: actually, any thoughts, Simone, does this help you understand?

Do you have any new wonder like feelings about where leftists are going? Understand this colonialist architecture mindset?

Simone Collins: It, it kind of scares me. It, because it, it, it, it digs deeper into identity politics and, and specifically establishes things as, as a function of us versus them in a way that, that.

It’s kind of arbitrary.

Malcolm Collins: [00:19:00] Well, no, but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s actually, I think it helps people understand better who’s gonna get murdered here, basically.

Simone Collins: Well, we certainly wanna know that. ‘

Malcolm Collins: cause there’s a lot of people who will go out there and be like, well, I am Jewish, so I’m a minority. Right. Like, my people clearly face discrimination.

Look at the Holocaust.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And somebody with this mindset would say, no, you are Jewish. You are actually a, a super white person. You’re like an extra white person. Because your people have super

Simone Collins: white, remember super straight.

Malcolm Collins: Right, right. No, but the point here being is that your classification as a discriminated individual is not downstream of the actual discrimination or trials that your people have faced.

It is downstream of how. Economically prosperous, your people have been able to make themselves within an existing system. Mm-hmm. And what cultural background you came from. So it doesn’t really matter, [00:20:00] no matter how disabled, no matter how trans, no matter how gay, and I think a lot of people aren’t realizing this yet, within this mindset, you are never one of the survivors.

Okay. The survivors are a few specific groups in their minds. Right. They are people who are the descendant descendants of natives. Mm-hmm. So they would likely ca categorize all Hispanics in this, even though this is not accurate. But it helps broaden their base. Anyone who’s a descendant of Africans and anyone who’s a descendant of Middle Easterners maybe Indians as well.

And you might be like, well, why not? Why not Asians? Like Asians underwent colonization as well. And they’d be like, well, the Asians because Asians don’t fit their pattern of colonization, IE they achieved economic prosperity after colonization. They don’t count as a colonized people because the Asians then became nationalists.

I mean, look at Japan, for example. Look at China, for example. And actually take pride in their identity, not as a pan discriminated [00:21:00] group, but as a distinct ethnicity. They don’t get to categorize themselves, was in this survivor class. I think a lot of people are sipping for this movement here without understanding that they’re on the chopping block

Speaker: Bro, literally, first thing does the Elon Musk Nazi salute. He’s saying the quiet part out loud. He wants to replace you. , And you have to lock the schibs in.

Speaker 2: New York will remain a city of immigrants.

Speaker: We hate white people.

Speaker 2: A city built by immigrants.

Speaker: We hate white people.

Speaker 2: Power by immigrants.

Speaker: The opposite of white power, immigrant power, I guess.

Speaker 2: And as of tonight. Led by an immigrant. Yeah,

Speaker: these basic.

.

So it’s important to keep in mind when you hear this speech and you’re thinking about what it means to him. Remember, all humans fall into one of two categories. They’re either in the survivor category, which is an immigrant class led by Muslims, , or they’re [00:22:00] in the colonizer category. I.

Malcolm Collins: The goal here in the United States is the same goal that they have within in Israel. And there’s a, a line that they often repeat which is, to, I, I think it goes, I’ll, I’ll try to find it in a post to get the exact line

The line is when Israel falls, the West falls.

Malcolm Collins: IE if they can eradicate Israel, then they can eradicate the rest of the West.

Simone Collins: That’s in what, okay. Yeah, I can, I can I get it. I get it.

Malcolm Collins: This makes perfect sense. So let’s explain what I mean here. Yeah. Okay. Why would somebody think this if they have this mindset, right? Look at Europe. Has Europe been able to stand against people with these mindsets? The answer is clearly no.

It is completely captured at this point, and demographically, it really has no hope going into the future. Okay. The United States, has the United States been able to stand firm against this? We have stood more firm against this than Europe, but a lot of that could [00:23:00] just be due to geo geography, right?

What is the only place on earth. That has been able to stand against this while standing directly adjacent to this. Right. It’s Israel.

Simone Collins: Yeah. There you go. That’s true.

Malcolm Collins: And not just, is it Israel? Think about it from their perspective. Right. I am a radicalized terrorist, Islamist and I am in one of these countries around Israel.

Right. Now I have been, I have dedicated myself to this global infant mindset. Eventually everyone needs to be under Sharia law. Okay. Now I go and I say I’m gonna give up my life to bomb something, to attack something, to kill someone. Mm-hmm. Why on earth am I gonna go halfway across the world to the United States or to Canada or to a country that’s already basically falling like Germany or something like that when Israel’s right on my doorstep and is a much more like, like [00:24:00] big flag.

In terms of like my people, right? When Israel falls, all of the people who are now attacking Israel, all of the people who get radicalized and are drawn to it like a magnet right now, think of it like the moon. You know how the moon like pulls in asteroids before they hit the earth and we would be hit with so many more asteroids of the moon wasn’t orbiting us.

That’s what Israel is for. Radicalized individuals with this mindset. It pulls in the terrorists like a bug zapper. And then they, they deal with it in a way that that is useful to us. But I think that we in the United States, or even was in Europe, don’t realize how much of like the people who get radicalized in these environments, when Israel’s gone, they’re still getting radicalized, but they’re now going for a much wider distribution of targets.

And in a way where I just don’t think a lot of these other countries or institutions would be able to stand on their own very well.

Simone Collins: Hmm. [00:25:00] Huh. Fascinating.

Malcolm Collins: It is fascinating because so much makes sense to me. This is why Greta Thornberg, because this is her mindset as well. Like a lot of her words have seemed weird to me.

Why

Simone Collins: doesn’t Yeah. Made any sense. Like what does, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Why doesn’t she hear genocide? That was literally twice as big. Yeah. Happening in, in where was it again? The DRCR

Simone Collins: dfo.

Malcolm Collins: DAR four. Yeah. And, and she didn’t say a thing about it. She didn’t do a thing about a thing about it. Yeah.

Simone Collins: But that, because it’s totally unmoored from this,

Malcolm Collins: it’s unmoored from this, in that case it was Muslims killing blacks for being black uhhuh.

That is irrelevant. That undermines the survivor narrative because it’s two survivor populations killing each other. They,

Simone Collins: they call each other out in the equation. So it it not to this. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Okay. So he spent his early years at Kampala until five, and then the family moved to Cape Town South Africa’s father’s teaching position at the University of Cape Town.

There he attended St. [00:26:00] George’s Grammar School at seven. They relocated to New York City’s Morningside Heights neighborhood. He grew up in a relatively privileged environment. He’s described it as one where he never had to want for something, but he was conscious of the broader inequalities. In 2003, during his father’s sabbatical, he returned to Keala for a year, attending school with support from the extended family back in NYC.

He played soccer for the local leagues and co-founded a cricket team for his high school and even ran unsuccessfully for student body vice president. Now the next thing I wanna get into is his rap career because I think that this has been fairly and unfairly maligned. If you actually look at his rap videos there.

You know, they’re cute, right? Like, he’ll do a rap video about like his grandmother or something like that, right? And I, I think they think that was the most viral one that he did. Okay. And it’s about like his, his grandmother working at a, like a a Chinese like grocery store or something like that

Speaker 6: i’m old,

everybody [00:27:00] now in.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Cute. Okay. It goes viral, cute, whatever. But he’s had some lines in his songs that might help you understand what I mean when I talk about like what his actual long-term agenda is. Okay.

Okay.

So in the 2017 Track Salam described by Madami as a song about growing up in New York, he wraps my love to the Holy Land five.

You better look him up. The Holy Land five. Were leaders of the Holy Land Foundation, convicted in 2008 for funneling $12 million to Hamas. You know that Hamas the group that helped?

Simone Collins: No, the other Hama come on. The one that saves puppies,

Malcolm Collins: you know, women and children in tunnels griping them to death.

That Hamas. Okay. They faced charges of supporting terrorism, money [00:28:00] laundering and tax fraud, and were sentenced up to 65 years.

Simone Collins: He

Malcolm Collins: is

Simone Collins: a fan.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he’s, he’s a, a, a big fan of that. The song also included lines like, no ban, no wall. Build it up, we’ll make it fall. So again, remember I said the, the goal of these people is as many survivors into the country as possible.

This is also why they freaked out when we began to get white refugees from South Africa and eight organizations that had been working for like 17 years shut themselves down rather than serve just 40 white South Africans. And we have an episode about that. So it really shows it was not about people in dangerous situations.

It was not even about like, we’ll hold our, our nose and help some disadvantaged white people. You know, when it comes to that, it is, no, we are explicitly an anti-white organization, by the way, you know? Two of the organizations that did this, by the way, if you’re counting up, who’s our list of [00:29:00] enemies? Okay.

One was the Catholic charity for bringing over immigrants. Oh boy. The other was the Episcopal charity for bringing over immigrants.

Simone Collins: No, the Episcopal

Malcolm Collins: one was the Catholic one. It wasn’t as obvious because they might have closed down for other reasons. With the Episcopal one, it was very clear that that’s why they shut down.

Simone Collins: Really.

Malcolm Collins: This is why I, I’m very suspicious of high, high church organizations, right?

Specifically here in May, 2025, the Episcopal Church announced it would terminate its nearly 40 year partnership with the US government for refugee resettlement through the Episcopal Migration Ministry Services, rather than comply with the Trump administration directive to help white people. , And then in terms of the Catholic church, .

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops, the U-S-C-C-B, , ended its National Refugee Resettlement Program in April, 2025. , However, this could be argued that they did this because of the administration cancellation of grants, , instead of the africaners.

So it’s, it’s more iffy [00:30:00] there, but it’s very explicit with the Episcopal church.

It is just wild to me that they would cancel a 40 year program just to not help some, I think it was like 45 white people. , And I think that people need to be really aware, and this is why I’ve been hitting on this so hard recently, is this, well, they’re Christians, therefore they’re on our side, is a very bad way to look at.

Look at things, because there are many large Christian organizations that are dedicated to your eradication. , Even if, , they don’t understand that that is the result of the ideology that their masters are writing for them.

Side note, though, it’s not just many Christian organizations. There are also Jewish organizations, which we will get to in a bit. , But it’s important to understand that just because a group is Christian or Jewish does not mean that they are on your side.

But there are a few people on Earth who serve the goal of this agenda more thoroughly than individuals like Nick Fuentes, who [00:31:00] is trying to paint the two sides that should be natural allies against each other. And then side with regularly the side, the survivor class.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. A lot of them become institution captured without realizing at the lower levels or even at the upper levels, that the bureaucratic level has this level of capture, right?

Mm. Okay.

So glorification of violence and gun hypocrisy in 2016.

Video WLA Nawe set during the 1981 Uganda Bush War in the ERO Triangle. Mond as young card mom appears in military fatigues, brandishing a handgun amid a scene of gun filing, militants shooting from trucks, and point blank execution Lyrics include violent threats like I’ll finish you like food on a plate

Malcolm Collins: .

You are [00:32:00] about to run like a chicken, you’ll pray for death. This has been contrasted with his claiming anti-gun stance. Hold on. I want to hear about this conflict. Who versus who was this?

But I wanna make it clear, you know, he is open to like, well, he might say, oh, I’m anti-gun, I’m anti whatever. It’s very clear that he feels that when groups that he identifies as this survivor class, gain enough power was in an environment, it is now okay to glorify the execution of civilians and stuff like that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And this is something that, you know, he has glazed Hamas before, he has glazed terrorists before. This is not a well, not

Simone Collins: glazed supporters of Hamas to be specific here.

Malcolm Collins: Well, he’s never condemned anything that Hamas has done except the explicit events of October 7th. Hmm.

Well, not surprising. It just [00:33:00] seems to have been

black on black violence in Africa.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s surprising.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, that’s not surprising. I’m surprising that

Simone Collins: he would, that’s, that, that’s, that’s why blood is seen from Google Earth now or whatever, right? No,

Malcolm Collins: but what I’m saying is

Simone Collins: on black violence,

Malcolm Collins: surprised that he would take so much glee in the executions of what are presumably other survivors.

I guess it’s just any group that’s resisting is allowed to use violence however they want in his mind.

Regardless of, of who they’re attacking. But anyway so he entered into politics under a group called the Democratic Socialists of America, the DSA. Now they have been increasingly taking over the Democratic party.

Mm-hmm. You know, they’ve got like a OC in their camp. They’ve got Bernie in their camp. That’s where they really began to grow. Mm-hmm. And they have a fairly explicit socialist agenda, which we’ll get to in a second.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But right now I want to focus more on the info stuff, right?

Simone Collins: Yes. I’m very curious to learn more about that.

Malcolm Collins: So during [00:34:00] a 2025 interview, so recently, this isn’t like something he said when he was a kid, he defended the phrase, globalize the informata as symbolizing a desperate desire for equality and equal rights standing for Palestinian human rights. Now. The thing is, is that is not what it means, right?

Like in context.

Simone Collins: So I feel like if we’re looking at this in a very divorced, non-ideological way, the best way to maximize Palestinian rights is to get rid of the entire Palestinian government and have Israel run everything.

Malcolm Collins: Absolutely

Simone Collins: gonna get good infrastructure, good social services. It would be great.

I mean,

Malcolm Collins: anyone

Simone Collins: who I think all of us really want, in fact, this is a common criticism made by people who really don’t like the money that we’re giving to Israel. It’s like, well, what’s this like, you know, Israel gives, like, has all these great social services, gets free IVF and we’re giving them money for weapons.

What’s up with this? And it’s like, yeah, wouldn’t it be great then if Israel at least extended all of these wonderful services to Palestine? Oh, well guess what? If we [00:35:00] just get rid of Palestine and make all of it Israel, we can, like, wouldn’t that be nice?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, well also keep in mind that within Israel you know, Arabs have a very good life within Israel.

Speaker 9: As a, I guess, are you a Muslim? I’m Muslim, yeah. What’s it like living in Jerusalem as a Muslim? Holy place? It’s a holy place. Yeah. It’s okay. No problem. No problem, no problem. As a Muslim living in Israel, what’s it like? Eh, good. It’s good. Yes. So you, as a Muslim growing up here, you you’re in, we are in the, we’re in the Muslim quarter.

Have you faced discrimination, unfair treatment, or no? No, I don’t. I don’t feel nothing. I feel safe.

Speaker 11: Israel left Gaza in 2005, meaning in 2005 there was no Jew alive or dead in Gaza. They even took the graves with them. It was ethnical cleansing of the Jews, thousands of families forcefully uprooted from Gaza, and it was a test case. For self-governing Gaza. Here. Gaza, we give you the keys to the [00:36:00] greenhouses.

We’re leaving everything you’re, you’re free. Become a state. And the sentiment in Israel during that time, I remember it because I was 15 back then, was a lot of hope that now Gaza is going to become this. Singapore of the Middle East and we, we were talking about the high rises buildings that you saw that Ha Gaza has.

But what actually happened is that Hamas earned all the greenhouses, not giving the Palestinians the opportunity of economic prosperity. And then they got elected a few months later in democratic elections to become the sovereign government of Gaza. And once they got elected, they killed everyone who didn’t agree with them.

Malcolm Collins: They’re, they’re, it is, even when contrasted the Arab settlements I saw in Israel, even when contrasted was the ones I saw in the UAE outside of major cities, were, were nicer and wealthier. Which is absolutely wild to me. I, I think that there are very few places on earth where Arab majority populations live that well.

And so, you know, I think you might [00:37:00] be onto something with that, but that’s a, a whole other thing. Nobody’s gonna go for that because that’s not really the point of the fight. The reason why nobody cheered when the war ended was because they wanted the war to keep going. Right? Like all these college protestors and stuff like that.

I saw no parades when the war ended, right? Because that wasn’t the goal. The goal was not ending the genocide as they claimed. It was a separate goal altogether, and we know what that was. Right? But I’ll note here when he talks about a, you know, desire for equality and equal rights. Clearly, he’s just like washing this out here because if you look what the term inata is typically used to talk about is the 1987 to 1983 inata.

This was the major Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation in the, was west Bank Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. It began spontaneously after a traffic accident in Gaza, but grew to widespread protests, strikes, boycotts and clashes. Palestinians used stones ov cocktails and barricades while Israeli forces responded.

There was [00:38:00] a thousand Palestinian deaths and a hundred Israeli deaths. So again, like, I don’t even know why you’d, they basically, it was a huge uprising attempting to take back the state and they just got curb stomped for it. The second time it happened was the the saka Tata 2000 to 2005 sparked by.

Ariel Sharon’s visit to the Osaka Mosques compound. This one was more violent. It had more suicide bombings and shootings. It had around 3000 Palestinians died and around a thousand Israelis died. And keep in mind this is like a peaceful state. Like this is not a state where people are facing like overwhelming you know, discrimination or anything like that.

It is one of the usually better places they can live given their demographic background. Now he has obviously he’s said that Israel, he’s called Israel’s occupation of Gaza, a genocide. And, and he it says it’s a system of hierarchy based on race and religion. That’s the way he described the Jewish state.

And [00:39:00] he wants in a, in a eradication of the, the Jewish state. Now if you look at. On the barrage massage Demolition of Beg P’s role, he posted on X about the 1992 demolition stating this is the photo of the bti Maja in 1992 is destroyed in a riot instigated by the BGP. Now, India’s ruling party on Sunday, Hindu nationalists wanted to celebrate the atrocity in NYC will Mayor Adams let them, he accused the BGB of instigating violence and opposed celebrations in NYC

.

So note here he is fighting, not just, we basically, wherever Muslims have in any way been wronged, he considers this like a major issue for him. Mm-hmm. It. And Manami called Modi, a war criminal who quote helped to orchestrate the mass slaughter of Muslims in Gja during the 2022 riots.

Simone Collins: Gujarat

Malcolm Collins: Gujarat.

Yes. He falsely claimed Muslims were eradicated in Gujarat during the 2002 riots. [00:40:00] Exaggerating the events. So, you know, he’s, he’s going out there. This isn’t just in our country, right? Like he wants, if you’re like, what does he want to happen in India? Right? Clearly there is a group in India that he wants controlling the country, and it’s not the group that’s controlling the country right now.

That is, that, that seems to be fairly clear who he would categorize as genocidal for doing things like putting down riots. Right. Now let’s talk about the the, this what, what’s the organization called? The Democratic Socialists of America. The dsa. Ah,

Simone Collins: yes. Okay. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So obviously they’re super, super pro-Palestine.

They’re super, super big into this arm struggle and decolonization and from the

Simone Collins: river, which is so odd ‘cause it’s like, not When I hear that, I think, okay, well this is about socialism. We’re gonna talk about economic policy, we’re gonna talk about industrial policy. And even when I heard him talking in an, an interview about his, what socialism is to him, he says it’s about [00:41:00] human dignity and it’s, it’s about the, that human dignity shouldn’t be up to like private corporations.

So when it comes to things like, like,

Malcolm Collins: right. Yeah. So let’s talk about what socialism is to the organization he’s a part of. Okay. Yeah.

Simone Collins: So,

Malcolm Collins: If we go to their official website, we get, we want to collectively own the key economic drivers that dominate our lives,

Simone Collins: right?

Malcolm Collins: Such as energy production and transportation now, but

Simone Collins: he also said that internet and childcare.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Well, these are his things. I’m talking about what the party wants. Okay. So he’s trying to make like transportation free, which everyone has said this is a very bad thing. Like when you make buses free, which he wants to do, they typically become basically moving homeless shelters.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and you do see this, anyone who’s ever lived in a city where these, these types of amenities are free they become incredibly dangerous, you know, even when they aren’t free in New

Simone Collins: York,

Malcolm Collins: even when

Simone Collins: they’re not free.

Yeah. You get

Malcolm Collins: problems, stabbings, you get Yeah. Very dangerous places. It is. Obviously going to put the citizens of New York at, at risk, even [00:42:00] often the, the homeless individuals who are using it in this way. Mm-hmm. Because it’s, it doesn’t have the protection or the security of a normal homeless shelter because it’s not designed for that.

Right. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so it’s a very easy place for anybody who wants to abuse the system to operate from. Right. Unless, you know, you put a cop on every bus or something like that, and certainly he doesn’t want to do that. But also if you look at the wider thing here, you see him beginning to implement these plans.

But what happens when we socialize energy, you know, what happens when we socialize the internet now, they have control over everything you’re seeing and doing. They can shut down energy whenever they want to districts, which we’ve seen in these, in these sorts of you know, communist states. And, in addition to that, it always just ends up crashing out. I mean, look at Venezuela, right? Venezuela was the model of how you were supposed to do socialism in the minds of groups like this until everything fell apart, right?

Yeah.

The the problem is, is you used to be able to be like, well, no, no one’s doing so communism, right?

People would be like, well, [00:43:00] Venezuela is right. And then when it fell apart, it’s like, oh, well,

Simone Collins: well, again, communism works really well when you have like unlimited resources, which in, in various instances for short periods of time, it feels like that, and it quote unquote works for a while, but now.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So to go forwards with what they have to say about themselves, socialists, therefore argue that private corporate property is not only wrong, but also nonsensical.

Wealth is a social creation and should be democratically administered. So this would mean essentially communism, right? If, if you’re removing the concept of private corporations and investing in private corporations and them having wealth, then the only way you can get large scale projects like you know, silicon fabs and stuff like that, that you need for cell phones and all the things that I’m sure even these people want in their lives is if the state manages it all.

You can’t, you can’t have, you know, anarchy, capitalism and or endocrin communism and anything that looks like modern technology that really only works with an agrarian society because these fabs [00:44:00] require tens of billions of dollars of investment you can’t get, yeah. Tens of billions of dollars by getting all the workers to like pool their money or something.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re, they’re not gonna do it. Yeah. You either need to incentivize a very well-resourced person

Malcolm Collins: Yep.

Simone Collins: To do it by allowing them to, to make money from it. Or you need the government to pay for it somehow.

Malcolm Collins: But the moment that you have centralized power in that way under the state you have now created the instate of the most horrifying libertarian system, which is a single company that controls everything.

You are basically living on a, in, in, in a company city, you know, that they used to have where like the, the coal mine would own everything. Right? Like that’s the situation you’re living under when you are in a state that owns all of the resources and directs all of the resources. So it’s not just from an inefficiency perspective, it’s even horrifying often from the very perspective of the people who are fighting for it.

When you point out that they have just described. A company, one [00:45:00] company running everything right. So on housing they say social housing must ex appropriate property from capitalists and deliver it to the working class through which it may be sustained and rejuvenated. So, what they, they believe that under this system, no individual can own multiple homes or a profit from another’s needs for shelter housing is permanently removed from the circuit of capital.

This obviously has really, really bad effects on living quality within a, within a region. We’ve talked about this before, but when you, I’ve talked about this within the concept of monogamy and why monogamy is beneficial, which is to say, when you don’t own your house, you have no reason to invest in your house or your property.

Right. And this is why if you go to many communist countries, you’ll see the single households that often would be pretty nice for these communist countries just completely deteriorating in a complete state of like, they look like trailer parks. All, all of them do. [00:46:00] And if you go through a suburban neighborhood in America, everything looks pristine and nice.

And that’s because these people have no reason to invest in their property. It could just be assigned to anyone else at any day. But in a, in the United States, you, you are keeping up the property so that you can sell it in the future, right? So you intrinsically have a motivation to continue to invest in it.

I compared this to monogamy because I was like, well, this is what it means to be within a monogamous relationship.

Simone Collins: So you can sell your wife eventually.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Now to talk about ami he wants to raise the corporate tax rate from 7.25% to 11.5% matching new jerseys. And he also wants to impose a flat 2% tax on incomes over 1 million.

The, you know, you can point out that, you know, the top 1% of NYC is 40% of the tax revenue, and we are already seeing a spike in housing prices in Connecticut from people trying to get out of there. But historically, and there’s been a lot of studies on this raising taxes in like the 2.6 range [00:47:00] doesn’t tend to cause mass exoduses of, of wealthy individuals.

Right.

Simone Collins: Interesting.

Malcolm Collins: So that’s not something we have to worry about. Okay. As, as much the bigger problem for him is probably what he wants to do in terms of expanding rent control because this has very negative effects. If you look at the studies expanding rent control and rent restrictions almost always actually increases the price to renters in the long term.

Simone Collins: Well, and rent control’s already a huge problem in New York City because it causes it, it can be inherited. I think a lot of people don’t realize that, that it can be passed down from generation to generation, meaning that. You have intergenerational wealth essentially being entrenched, like it’s very against what I would consider to be a more leftist view, right?

Yeah. That we don’t want people to inherit privilege and wealth. And yet you have exactly that in New York City because of rent control. You have people who are benefiting from their grandparents, sometimes even their great grandparents buying [00:48:00] or, or, or getting a, a rent control apartment from ages ago next to Central Park and just passing it down and down, meaning that people are holding onto these apartments because they’ve become these intergenerational assets even when they don’t need them, even when they primarily are living in other areas and not even, so now what happens?

Malcolm Collins: You, you move out of New York and you’re keeping this apartment, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. And so you’re holding up this inventory and, and actually one of our listeners sent to me. A tweet showing the proportion of different types of New Yorkers that support Mom Donny. And the biggest proportion of people that support him in terms of duration living in New York are people who lived in New York for the least amount of time.

So those who’ve lived in New York, or were born in New York, are the least likely to support Mom Donny. Mm-hmm. And those who have lived in New York, five years or fewer, are the most likely to support him. I, I think part of that’s because he keeps promising, I’m going to make it easier for you to get housing here.

Little do they know that no, his policies aren’t going to make it [00:49:00] easier. You need

Malcolm Collins: more supply. The only way you get more supply is by removing rent control.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Another problem with rent control too is, is, is absolutely, there’s a lot of apartments in New York City that are, are not currently being rented because they’re not up to code.

Why are they not up to code? Because the fixes needed to. To repair the apartments and make them up to code, to make them legally rentable again are more expensive than what the landlord, the property owner would be able to get in rent. So they would, they would lose money doing anything to these apartments because they’re never going to be able to get rent at a level that will pay for the costs of maintaining these apartments.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: So again, this is only going to exacerbate the problem. But yeah, carry on.

Malcolm Collins: So the other, the other really big change that he wants to do is well, the free childcare, which I’m actually okay with. New York has incredibly expensive childcare, and I really don’t know how they’re supposed to fix this.

So if New Yorkers are subsidizing childcare for other New Yorkers, that’s fine. The, the next one is raised to minimum wage $30 [00:50:00] an hour. We’re right now at 16 point 50 an hour. Wow.

Simone Collins: That’s a big jump.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That’s gonna have a big economic effect on what people already A lot of

Simone Collins: shut

Malcolm Collins: impli

Simone Collins: shut down.

It’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s already, I think half or 40% at least of, of the pharmacies in New York City have closed down largely because of theft. In the ones that remain, which are largely locked up, you have to ask someone to help you, you know, get some, like a soda out of a locked fridge, for example. Even when we were there trying to do this a while ago on, on one trip, maybe two years ago, we had to wait forever to get someone to come out.

Yeah, imagine if if they double the cost of employees, it’s gonna be even worse. There’s gonna be like one person in every pharmacy staffing them. Like, I don’t know, like, are we gonna bring back a automats or something with just, I mean there are all these now automated. Well,

Malcolm Collins: that’d be really interesting if they did bring back a mats.

Simone Collins: There have been some like pilot versions of a automats coming back. I really like a mats, so [00:51:00] I, I think that

Malcolm Collins: people who don’t know what an automatic is, it’s this old system where you would go and you would pay and then like there were a bunch of cubbies and one of them would like unlock and your, your meal would be in the cubby

Simone Collins: .

Yeah, it’d be like a sandwich in the cubby or some meatloaf in the cubby and you just open it up and, and there it is. So it’s like a vending machine, but for fully prepared meals, there is a kitchen behind the A mat with people. But like, I think it for in, in a world in which crime and theft are higher people paying to get food out of unlocked things, you know, no table service, et cetera.

Like also it would make so much more sense in terms of the food delivery world where, you know, if you are Uber Eats, if you are delivery or whatever. Just being able to ride up on your bike and pick the thing out of the window for the person makes a lot of sense. So, but yeah, I mean it is, it is gonna fundamentally change what New York looks like.

I’m all, you know, like in the end I think that that where conservatives land on Momani is, I really like that he’s gonna disrupt things and [00:52:00] probably prove the point that what he’s proposing, proposing doesn’t work. What I’m seeing from my friends on the left, ‘cause most of my childhood friends, for example, very still quite progressive.

They really, mom Donny is very akin to what Trump was in 2016, which is, I don’t think he has all the answers. I don’t really know if he’s gonna make anything better, really, actually. But I do think he’s gonna cause a lot of disruption and he’s gonna break a system that I hate and what could possibly make the system worse.

They think so. I think that everyone’s

Malcolm Collins: little, do they know? Little do they know how bad?

Simone Collins: Well, but I, but well, the weird thing is that in the end, both the right and the left are kind of like, yeah, this dude’s gonna break stuff. And it just happens to be from slightly different perspectives where from one side it’s, he’s gonna break stuff and I freaking hate it.

So at least he’s breaking things. And the, on the other side, he’s gonna break stuff and then you’ll see how stupid you all are, right? So like, everyone kind of gets what they want by his being elected. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a good day. It’s a good day to be an American.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, [00:53:00] I, I do want to see and report on a New York deterioration after this because I think that you know, this is how we can fight this sort of growth within the leftist movement.

And we’re going to need to, ‘cause I suspect. It is from this fraction that the next presidential candidate’s gonna come from on the left.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: we’ll see. Yeah. And we need to be, you know, especially if we’re looking at this last primary, it’s very worried about that. Now, if you wanna know about the Hasidic community that supported him this was Satmar Hasidic community, the Abra faction.

So, they’re led by Rabbi Aaron Te Tebo and rabbi Moshi and Diggy in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. They endorsed when Dami, just days before the election, the Satmar, one of his, the largest Hawaii ultra Orthodox communities was over 57,000 members in Williamsburg, alone is known for its anti-Zionist ideology.

They opposed a state of Israel on religious grounds, believing it should not exist before the arrival of the Messiah. No. And criticize its secular nature and military draft.

Simone Collins: So they’re those, those Jews. Okay. [00:54:00]

Malcolm Collins: They’re those Jews.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: And they, they worked with him in exchange for protecting Yeshivas.

These are Jewish religious schools from secular scrutiny of, of education. And I can see him being okay with that ‘cause he just doesn’t care, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Like yeah. Power to the people.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no power to the anti-Zionist Jews.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. Those the only,

Malcolm Collins: no people, but I’d, I’d remind Who

Simone Collins: else is human?

Malcolm,

Malcolm Collins: what’s important to remember in all of this is from their perspective, this survivor versus colonizer thing. The reason they’re using the term colonizer is so that you don’t really get that they’re talking about you. They specifically mean. White people, Asian people, and what they would see as black collaborators, which are non-Muslim blacks often.

So, that that is why they do not care. That is why he’s willing to celebrate the extra judicial execution of black people in Africa. That is why they don’t care that there was a genocide happening twice as [00:55:00] large. The one in Gaza, if you consider that a genocide when it was Arabs killing black people.

So, the, this is really a movement and I think that that, and, you know, AMI shows this, Hassan shows this where Muslims are at the top and it is about an Islamic agenda at the end of the day. And I, and that’s really surprised me, when somebody starts talking about the colonizer colon stuff, they are talking about a larger Muslim agenda.

And, and, and. They may not realize it, like, they may not realize that that’s what this is all downstream from. But I hadn’t fully realized that before. I thought that that was more of a conspiracy. And I think it shows us why you know, especially with this quote unquote civil war on the right now, I’m now more convinced than ever that the replatforming of Nick Fuentes on things like news articles and Tucker Carlson is probably tied to the CIA just because there’s so much evidence of Tucker Carlson being tied to the CCIA at this [00:56:00] point.

And. It does seem very weird when you consider that like Nick Fuentes, his fan base actually isn’t that large, you know, considering the amount of, and the issues that he’s covering actually aren’t that important. But I think that as the left becomes more actively antisemitic in their goals, they need to find a way to paint the right, it’s still having a degree of antisemitism within it, and Nick Fuentes is the perfect person to do that for them.

Simone Collins: So you’re saying the CIA is orchestrating this, but the CIA is orchestrating this as an en an entity that is antagonistic toward the Trump administration and the new rights goals.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we have, we have leaks from the CIA saying that they would do anything to keep the Trump administration from winning the election.

Right. You know?

Simone Collins: Okay. Because I, I, yeah. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: We do know that there are people within the CIA who have these sentiments. We also know about the bot farm. The CIA had that was making up like a huge portion of Reddit. You can go to our video on that. That was coming out of like a, a CIA Psyop thing, and it [00:57:00] was mostly super woke stuff that they were posting.

And so, I think that there is a faction was in some of these government organizations that see their goal as. Solidifying control of the urban monoculture. And they see the way that they would see it is Trump is a dangerous nationalist that is getting a lot of their friends fired right now. So let’s stop him.

Right. Like he’s a direct threat to their jobs and stuff like that. Right. Let’s stop him.

Oh,

okay. And so they see anything that breaks up the new right coalition as beneficial in attempting that. And I think that the best way to do that is to say it is okay. It is really wrong, what was done to Nick Fuentes to try to keep him from talking about Jews, about Israel aid, about anything like that.

But to also understand that Nick Fuentes is, faction is in the wrong overall. And is one of the things that we need to address because they are being [00:58:00] used. And even Nick Fuentes recognized this. He said his primary enemy was conservatives. That they are being used to destroy the new conservative movement.

Simone Collins: Okay, fascinating.

Malcolm Collins: But, but keep in mind what it means, the destruction of the new co conservative movement. It means the survivor’s win and get to execute their will, which you hear about in Ami and his rap songs

Simone Collins: weren’t for a wild ride. Thank you for bringing me up to speed on all this.

Malcolm Collins: There we go.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Not that great.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I but it, like, people agreed, really enjoyed, some people suggested we do an episode on mate blocking in general, which I mean, we’ve, we talk about it a lot. I, I would have to figure out how to make, like, put an interesting angle on it, but I, I could maybe do that. I think it, it’d be fun to talk about meat blocking.

Well, I, okay here’s, did a really good meat blocking episode.

Malcolm Collins: What I would do in terms of an episode on meat blocking [00:59:00] is. Is mate blocking done intentionally or subconsciously? Because a lot of the times, you know, we’ll be like, oh, women are, are tearing other women down. But you know, are they, are they, do they mean to do it right?

Like is it, are they telling the fat woman, you know, you look beautiful because they know that it will hurt her chances of getting a partner? Or is there some sort of subconscious play going on? And I guess this would cause you to like soul search and stuff in terms of if you ever did this?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

That’s interesting. I mean, I feel like I’ve engaged in what I amounts to mate blocking behavior without ever intending it. ‘cause I didn’t wanna block anyone because I didn’t wanna a mate. So I, my, I would lean toward the, this isn’t a thing. Camp, but I, I, I imagine that there are women who actively engage in mate blocking because they want mates.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We got we haven’t, we haven’t discussed it yet, but the Catholics versus Jews episode [01:00:00] we got angry comments from both sides. Like a lot of Jews thought it was anti-Semitic and a lot of Catholics thought it was anti Catholics. So I, that, that makes me feel like we probably did a, a fairly good job of obviously whenever you hear something and it’s critical of your side, to some extent, you’re gonna feel like it was you know, just an attack on your side.

But yeah, a lot of angry Jews and some angry Catholics.

Simone Collins: No, a lot more angry Catholics than angry. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: more angry Catholics.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, not, I mean, people pointed out entirely valid things like Catholicism is not as necessarily as anti, I. Anti-capitalist as, as you would argue it, it, there’s, there’s a lot of nuance to all these things.

A lot of, a lot of different histories. The Catholic churches is not a monolith, blah, blah, blah. So there’s, yeah. Anyway,

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: we don’t have to get into that.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no. One interesting thing about it that came up in the comments is that, like, why Protestants are often culturally closer to Jewish people than they are to [01:01:00] Catholics.

Simone Collins: Well, some people have argued that Catholics are closer to. Jews and Protestants are,

Malcolm Collins: so the reason I would argue that you see more closeness there and more closeness between groups like Catholics and Mormons is just whether or not you have a centralized religious structure mm-hmm. Or a decentralized religious structure.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, again, again, it really depends on the the dimension that you’re, you’re looking at.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 12: Why are you giving all your candy to Octavian? ‘cause I don’t, because I don’t like seeing candy. So I always look at Octa’s basket. Octavian. I want Wild Can. Is this what happens when you have an autistic brother who doesn’t like eating candy? Toastie, are you gonna eat some of your candy? No, I didn’t like candy.

Speaker 13: Josie, eat your candy. Toastie. I’m gonna make you eat your candy. Look at this. No, I won’t make you. I, it’s my favorite color. But did you have fun toastie? This looks so cold. Look at it. It looks so [01:02:00] cool. My orange, my favorite color. I.

Speaker 12: Did you have any? No. Annie’s just doing her thing. Their best life.

Is having a boyfriend now considered “uncool”? In this thought-provoking episode, Malcolm and Simone dive deep into the cultural shifts around relationships, social status, and online identity—especially among urban, progressive communities. They explore why some women are now hesitant to share their relationships online, the rise and fall of trends like the “stay-at-home girlfriend,” and how social media algorithms and peer pressure shape what we see (and don’t see) about love lives. The conversation covers everything from viral articles and Reddit threads to the impact of influencer culture, parasocial relationships, and the new “flex” of being single. Whether you’re curious about the latest social trends, the politics of dating, or just want a fresh perspective on modern relationships, this episode is for you.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins (2): HELLOOOOOO SIMONE! I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be discussing. If having a boyfriend has become embarrassing or uncool specifically for urban monoculture, I really cannot describe this. Anything other than like upper middle class white women. Okay. Have begun to categorize.

Having a boyfriend or being in a relationship as a social taboo. There was a paper written on this then in in Vogue, which we’ll go over, which by the way, teen Vogue Vogue inspired all of their black employees. So that was fun. When they were trying to do like woke cleanup, they accidentally.

Simone Collins: No, I, I think it’s more, I think they were getting rid of unprofitable Teen Vogue by tucking it into Vogue.

Vogue. And they got rid of the, the politics team, which was just because obviously gay and not

Malcolm Collins (2): that also all the trans, no, no, yeah. Sorry. Not

Simone Collins: gay trans. Yeah, gay is like conservative. LGBT Trans is progressive Lgt. Yeah. Gay. Gay

Malcolm Collins (2): [00:01:00] is now conservative coded these days. Yeah. But anyway, so to continue here so they did an article on this and we’re gonna go through both their article and the article that they referenced, which I think is almost more interesting than their article itself.

And then we’re gonna dig, go through some reply articles to this and Reddit threads that we’re discussing this to sort of see how the general feminist community feels about this. Okay. But it does appear to be a real shift that’s happening online, which is really cool and interesting

Simone Collins: because cartoon hate her was kind of like.

Is this really real? This is actually just journalists making something up, but it’s no, I, I, I

Malcolm Collins (2): think it’s, well, when I look at the Reddit discussion of this, I think it’s real, and it also makes sense when you think about the wider cultural context that we’re in.

Simone Collins: Okay. Interesting. Let’s dive in.

Malcolm Collins (2): So if someone so much as says, my boy and, and they cut it off there, so they can’t even say, my boyfriend on social media, they’re muted.

There’s nothing I hate more than following someone for fun, only for their content to become quote unquote, my [00:02:00] boyfriend Defi suddenly, oh, this is probably because for so long it felt like we were living. In what one of my favorite subjects, hackers calls boyfriend land a world where women’s online identities center around the lies of their partners.

A situation rarely seen reversed. Women were rewarded for their ability to find and keep a man with elevated social status and praise. It became even more suffocating when this could be leveraged on social media for engagement and if you were serious enough financial game.

Simone Collins: So, oh yeah, right. There was the whole stay at home girlfriend trend.

Hmm. Of women just making their identities about the fact that they had a boyfriend who subsidized Alexa. And I wanna go into the

Malcolm Collins (2): article about that phenomenon, which preceded this phenomenon. Okay?

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins (2): Because she references another blog post here where they are talking about that phenomenon.

Okay? Now I’m gonna note here what you will actually, I’ll, I’ll get to it when we, when we get to the point of the article here. Hmm. But I, I, I, I also love like the horrible that [00:03:00] this woman. Is triggered by the fact that other women have partners, right? Like that this is a, a threatening thing to her to the extent that it appears to be emotionally damaged, like it, it appears to cause some form of emotional distress when she sees this.

I might ask her to meditate on why that may be. Is it that maybe you want a boyfriend and just aren’t putting in the effort or aren’t making the you know, bridging the ideological gap enough to actually find one? Right. So you. But no, uh uh, there is, there is no, no interest in, in bridging that gap.

So let’s go to this other article.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins (2): A few months ago at a literary event, I introduced myself to a writer whose book I love. She then did the Odds thing. She turned around and introduced her boyfriend and began to speak about his accomplishments at Links, despite her book being a book [00:04:00] Talk Darling, despite Good on

Simone Collins: her, because as we’ve just.

It’s pretty unusual for a woman in public to praise her male partner. Very rare

Malcolm Collins (2): in, in real world.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that on its, that’s on its own

Malcolm Collins (2): is notable, so, wow. Okay. But, but we’re now seeing partially why, despite being beloved by her community, despite being showered and praised by writers and fans alike, her first instinct was to talk about her partner for five minutes straight.

Oh. I thought, I see. Now I’m noting a number of things here. One is Simone, do I often praise you in public? When we’re talking to people to the extent that I, I feel uncomfortable because I’m like, no, we should be talking about you. This is a normal thing that people do

Simone Collins: with their look at your partner and you’re proud of him.

Like Eric Barwin talking about his, his wife on the red carpet, but then she off. She shouldn’t be proud of her though.

I don’t think you make it more silly than it is. I actually feel, I try. Oh, didn’t get that on the show. No, no. We just, we just cut all that part out. Cut me out. Cut you out when you’re trying to make it silly.

Malcolm Collins (2): She shouldn’t be proud of her. That’s a, that’s a [00:05:00] difference.

Simone Collins: A lot of kids together. That is like the one important point is that they have a big family. They’re like good on them. But yeah, I mean, I think it’s really important that you are highlighting here that.

This woman praised her boyfriend and here she is being criticized online. I mean, it’s people, you know, we, we have normalized obviously the, as we covered in another episode, eye rolling wife, the sarcastic wife as sort of this endemic and, and problematic issue. But it’s not just the fact that the belittling your husband slash boyfriend trope is so pervasive and, and sometimes lauded.

It’s that women on the other hand are punished. When they praise and are supportive of their boyfriends and husbands.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yes. And then we’re seeing that right here. She is punishing. Yeah. And the woman above is punishing women for being supportive of their partners. Yeah. Which of course creates toxic relationships, right?

Yeah. When you’re in a relationship with these people. But I love that at first she’s like, I, I can’t be a fan of this person anymore. I can’t be around this person anymore because they are nice to their boyfriend. Right. God forbid you’re in a [00:06:00] functional relationship. She goes on TikTok. This interaction is the norm.

In December. I stared that. I stated that over half of the trends that go viral end up being co-opted by people showing off their mail partners. I made it a point to point out how few trends are men showing off their girlfriends or wives. 99% of the time it’s women showing off their boyfriends or husbands.

I was keeping a 2024 tally and I eventually just gave up sometime in March. At this point, the app was practically the patriarchy itself. And here I point out. Okay lady, because I’ve gotten sort of a feel of your personality from, from this stuff. What percent of the accounts that you follow are male, but if you’re gonna guess what percent of the, the accounts that this lady follows are male, I’m gonna guess I.

3%, if I’m gonna be generous, maybe 10%. So is there [00:07:00] maybe a reason you never see guys sharing their girlfriends on these accounts? Is it because you’re simply not following many male accounts?

Simone Collins: Actually, to be fair I, I can’t think of a single goal account where guys are extolling their girlfriends.

Really? Can you,

Malcolm Collins (2): I mean, I try to do it. I think that,

Simone Collins: yeah. Well, no, but no, you, you do it. We’re, we’re, we’re, we are unusual. I think that you’re so fun. Fridays, they are a loving couple that promotes each other.

Malcolm Collins (2): Say what about the Malcolm?

Simone Collins: But they’re very sweet to each other.

Malcolm Collins (2): No, hold on. So, if, the reason why I don’t have a lot of examples of this off the top of my head is because don’t.

Watch any type of social media that would have this anymore? Facebook. So no, there’s the, there’s some Mormon influencers

Simone Collins: who podcast together. There’s ex-Mormon influencers, there’s fun Fridays, there’s ballerina farms, then there’s all the Christian couples.

Malcolm Collins (2): There’s compass Rose, there’s Clownfish tv.

Oh, yeah. So there are a number, but, but Okay. We don’t hang [00:08:00] out on platforms where somebody might be doing this because we’re not really on Twitter. We’re not, we’re not on TikTok on Facebook. Yeah. We’re not on TikTok. And on YouTube, it’s just on a platform that is, you know, germane for doing this sort of promotion.

Fair. But I would guess the reason is is because she just doesn’t follow a lot of men. And so that’s why to her it feels like women are always doing this. And I’d also point out here. That I bet that this is the type of person who, when she does follow a man, is to goon over them. So she specifically is likely following men who are more likely to be single and who are more likely to hide that they’re in a relationship if they are in a relationship because their fan base is some sort of parasocial relationship with them for gooning purposes.

That’s on Tiger. Like, I mean, I figured that’s like his core audience is just women looking to goon. Because I can’t, he, he is not like, he doesn’t actually have ideas if you watch his show for a while which means that, and, and he cares a lot about appearance, having a, a big fluffy dog in the background looking buff all the time.

Mike, does he look buff? Oh yeah. Just [00:09:00] google a picture of him

. I guess you gotta hand Well, he wears

Simone Collins: clo. Yeah, I, I, I would, but no answer. Anyway.

Malcolm Collins (2): In my video I asked why men always, men only men get to behave atrociously and have millions of people rush to defend them. Hold on a second. Watch our video on snarky women, just to see that women do this.

Constantly in our society. Yeah. Men are

Simone Collins: thrown under the bus and everyone just watches, just watches the wheels turn over ‘em. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins (2): No, and like, nobody even cares. Like, it’s not even a scandal. Like women like actually physically abuse their, their husbands and boyfriends in public, famous women and just like, like, whatever,

Simone Collins: mcc Emmanuel Macron’s wife pushing him in the face as they exited an airplane

Malcolm Collins (2): and nobody cared

Malcolm Collins (2): .

Nobody does anything. It’s not a big scandal. And it is because this woman lives in delusion world. But I think that this helps get us in the mindset [00:10:00] of this is the way that urban monoculture women feel so we can understand how and why they begin to punish women for this behavior. In a video that went viral recently, a woman begs her father not to flip her over on her wedding day.

He does, of course. And she smiles lovingly in a chagrin manner. Thank you, Gillian Flynn. These comments were surprising. Women were giddy about the crossing of the boundary. All laughs and heart eye emojis. The way he tip tap of himself was one of the, comments that she was quoting there. The most insidious, and again, I keep in mind, I’m jumping around this article because I, I don’t want you guys to get all the boring stuff here.

The most insidious type of post is the one where there’s no boyfriend, but instead the poster is showing off their hot brother or dad. This is odd on two levels. Firstly, the awareness of the family members being attractive. Second, first of all, like you’re aware when your family members are attractive, right?

Like what? What? Secondly, [00:11:00] the recording and posting of the video in order to receive likes and comments about how hot your family member is. The worst part is, it’s not even implicit. Many of these posts have the original post. Liking comments, exing in their proximity to an attractive man. The TikTok brain Rott is so powerful that if you have a boyfriend simply standing near that man is enough.

I find it hard to overstate how much people love men on the app, and it’s like, well, what? Maybe because they’re women and they think. The hot men are hot, right? This reminds me of on like Reddit, where they post you know, a hot woman will post themselves doing something and they’ll just hit the top.

Of course she has no problem with this, right? You know, they’re in frame even though there’s no race. Look at the art I just made, you know? But what I find Flynn here. Is this idea that there’s this counter world and it’s a world that obviously I’ve never engaged with. ‘cause I don’t find TikTok at all enjoyable.

Mm-hmm. I don’t really find Twitter enjoyable either. I don’t find Facebook fun anymore. And [00:12:00] so there’s this other world and I assumed because when I was on Facebook, I never saw any posts like this. So I assume that this must be. The type of people that this woman already follows who are doing this.

And I think that what we were likely seeing here is within the urban monoculture, sort of an understanding. ‘cause I assume that these, these people who she’s following are urban monoculture people. For a while it was very high status to get a boyfriend because so few people had one, right? Yeah. But then, and, and so everyone was sort of showing them off for a period till it finally reached a level where women sort of collectively, the ones who were getting shown off too, decided.

Okay. We need to shame this behavior.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The, the take that I’m getting from some people on this, this subject, like from cartoons hate her, is that this is, this comes from a place of deep insecurity. I know because I, [00:13:00] before, you know, ever meeting you and before ever deciding I was gonna date or anything, you know, I was very boyfriend less and I had absolutely zero issue with people.

Being excited about their boyfriends, I just didn’t care. And if I didn’t care about the content, like I would just move on to something else. Keep scrolling. You know, like this is not hard to

Malcolm Collins (2): avoid. Yeah. Okay, so to continue here, and this is still the piece from the before time when this was common. I say all of this to hold up a mirror to society.

I understand that there are more women on social media than men, and that for a certain segment of society, having a boyfriend or a husband is quite literally the most important thing you can do. But the millions, millions of posts make me question what exactly is happening. TikTok content is mimetic.

When something performs well, people jump on the bandwagon and trends are born. Now, keep in mind this is performing well within your feed, which is based on what you are interacting with. [00:14:00] My bet is you’re likely leaving lots of hate comments on these, and TikTok is saying, oh, engagement.

Simone Collins: Exactly. No, that’s the thing is, is if you interact with something, even if it’s out of anger, you’re telling the algorithm to give you more of it.

So she’s probably seeing way more of this than anyone who just doesn’t care. Would see and Yeah, that’s right. I, I guess you wouldn’t get memes like this if you didn’t get algorithmic reinforcement. Yeah. Which we have so much more of now.

Malcolm Collins (2): But then she goes, and I love this as well, you want to, you wanna see how urban monoculture she is.

She goes but as someone with two degrees in sociology, I shudder a bit when I see the types of content that breaks through, it’s another to watch every trend boil down to Look at this man. Look at me standing near this man. Look at my man. My man, my man, my man. I love it lady. As a woman with two degrees in sociology, oh boy.

Anyone who has ever said that statement, get them as far away from me as possible. Oh, she’s,

Simone Collins: [00:15:00] she’s told us that all we all we need to know that, that now we, we know what we need to know now. That is, yeah.

Malcolm Collins (2): She’s the judge of society. And this was one of this other person’s favorite blogs, this Vogue Writer’s favorite blogs.

Okay. So you, you get the mindset of this vogue writer as well. Right. All right. So let’s go back to the Vogue piece. However, more recently there’s been a pronounced shift in the way that people showcase relationships online, far from fully hard launching romantic partners. Straight women are opting for subtler signs, a hand on a steering wheel, clinking glasses at dinner or the back of someone’s head.

On the more confusing end, you’ll have faces blurred out of wedding pictures. Or what professionally edited videos was a fiance conveniently cropped out of all the shops, women are obscuring their partner’s face when in the past as if they wanted to erase the fast that they existed without actually not posting them.

Is

Simone Collins: this like the new, or is this some version of the. I don’t know how you, there’s this big thing, [00:16:00] people being very political about not posting their kids’ faces, like either covering them with emojis or only showing the backs of their heads and photos online. I

Malcolm Collins (2): find right away I find that so cringe.

Simone Collins: I know it’s, it’s very annoying to us kids

Malcolm Collins (2): do online, but it’s just Is is hiding

Simone Collins: your boyfriend or husband or fiance, like now that equivalent, what’s going on?

You know, I, like, is it also political? Because I feel like people, people say they’re covering up their kids’ faces and stuff to protect their privacy. I think that that’s false. I think it’s partially political.

Malcolm Collins (2): I think people are afraid. Yeah. I think, I think it’s more

Simone Collins: political than it is actually like logistical and technical, but I

Malcolm Collins (2): think people are afraid of what other people, the way that other people will perceive them if they post anything with their boyfriend.

Simone Collins: 100. Yeah. But I think that’s, it’s the same about kids. I think that the reason why people. Cover up their kids’ faces is ‘cause they’re also afraid of that criticism. So I think that the, well, but I think this is the new version of that that’s really afraid your husband’s

Malcolm Collins (2): face out of wedding photos [00:17:00] or editing your husband out of, out of the wedding videos.

This becomes something quite different. This is, but we’re

Simone Collins: recording right now. Okay.

Malcolm Collins (2): I think it’s a way of signaling their politics to people a pretty extreme way. Agreed. And, and I think that it is because they saw, and I suspect for a long time, if I look at the tone of that first piece knowing that it’s a popular writer, that maybe women within. Progressive communities within urban monoculture communities that accidentally shared pictures of their boyfriends or husband would get a lot of negative posts.

Like, why are you doing this? Why are you showing a man? Why are you, Hmm. And if they’ve seen this happen, even just one or two times, you could. Pretty quickly, you know, one J jump on the bandwagon. ‘cause yet another thing you can tear down other women about. Two, a great way of make competition, you know, ensure that no other woman is dating to make it easier for yourself to date.

Right. You know, literally just shame women for being in a relationship.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, a lot of people also point out again and again that [00:18:00] so many of these things are. Gatekeeping tactics that women use, whether it’s encouraging other women to not care about their appearance or weight or discouraging other women from being interested in men.

That enables women to experience less competition on dating markets theoretically. Yeah. So, yeah, that, that could also definitely be, so, so, yeah, this is about political fronting and this is about meat blocking essentially, right.

Malcolm Collins (2): So what gives, are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now or is something more complicated going on?

Hmm. To me, it feels like the result of women wanting to straddle two worlds. One where they can receive the social benefits of having a partner, but also not appear so boyfriend obsessed that they come across as quite culturally ish, they want the prize in celebration of partnership, but understand the norms of it says Zoe Zi writer and activist. Oh my God. In other words, [00:19:00] in an era of widespread hetero fatalism, women don’t want to be seen as being all about their man, but they also want the clout that comes with being partnered. First of all, I love the words that they’re using here.

Being partnered, right? Like, that’s the the fancy term for they were able to secure a male. And if you’re not familiar with the concept of hetero fatalism, it’s an interesting concept within urban monocultural with female communities where they’re sort of fatalistic and sad about the fact that they happen to be born hetero, right?

Like they see this as like a, a punishment or a bad thing. Actually, I would be interested to see, and I could totally see this happening, is a community begin to form. That’s dedicated to arguing that actually hetero women are more discriminated than gay or bi women. Oh. ‘cause they have to date men.

Simone Collins: Oh, I see.

Malcolm Collins (2): So actually it’s the gay and the bi women who are privileged. And the hetero women who are disadvantaged.

Simone Collins: Right, [00:20:00] right. Because they are. Forced through their, their sexuality to interact with, with an inherently problematic class of man or penis. Exactly. Yes. Right. Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins (2): I

Simone Collins: could see it be done.

Malcolm Collins (2): I wanna, I wanna see that. I wanna see that happen. Give it time. If you have progressive watchers, you make that a thing. Yeah. Toss that ball.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You know what’s better than being a political lesbian, being an oppressed straight woman. Yes, who’s forced by her biology

Malcolm Collins (2): to want to engage with men. Amazing.

Wow. But it’s not all about image. When I did a call out on Instagram, plenty of women told me that they were in fact, superstitious. Some feared the quote unquote evil eye, a belief that their happy relationships would spark jealousy so strong in other people that it could end their relationship. Others were concerned about their relationships ending and then being stuck with the post.

I was in a relationship for 12 years and never once posted him or talked about him [00:21:00] online. Oh, I broke up recently and I don’t think I will ever post. A man says Nikki, 38. So she dated him from 28 to 38, basically her entire period where she could have gotten married and then broke up and had kids.

And had kids. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yikes. And I’d also, I mean that’s, that’s really kind of weird and sociopathic to be honest. And I also love that these women are afraid of other women seeing them in a happy relationship because that’s become coded and other people will note this later as Republican. Right.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: People really feeling like Taylor Swift, for example, was a traitor to their kind because she chose. To get engaged to the football star, even though in her earliest songs, it was all about dating the football star in this whole, like, like she, she hasn’t turned on anyone. This, this, well, well attested, but whatever.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah. Yeah. And I think it’s so sad that Taylor Swift came out, like right as it became uncool to [00:22:00] date, it became, you know, uh mm-hmm. I mean, obviously this means the urban monoculture is like extra cooked from where it would otherwise be. If women now think that having a boyfriend lowers their status in female communities, which is the core thing that women care about, it’s why they put on makeup.

It’s why they dress the way they do. You know,

Simone Collins: well, so here’s actually where, where I’m kind of seeing a confluence of things. ‘cause just this morning I was listening to Aspen Gold go over a bunch of screenshots specifically from UK men of women in the uk, basically asking for money and implying that in, in exchange, that there would be sexual access.

Like they’d hook up if a guy paid for their nails to get done, or paid for their hair, or gave money for, like, a lot of these were young, single mothers too. Or like literally pregnant. But they were also implying like, well, give me money and we’ll hook up. So just literally sex work basically, but with, with some additional theater.

To make it seem less like what it actually was, and I’m looking at all this [00:23:00] because we, what we first saw was the, the, the initial wave of trending tra wifes. Mm-hmm. From there we went to the stay at home girlfriends, which is a significant step down, right. It’s, it’s being a tra wife, but without any of the legal.

Or religious protections of being married so you’re even less secure. And then we just sort of went from that to not even being comfortable to posting about having boyfriends at all. One could even argue that this is in service of being able to. Pursue more of an OnlyFans kind of lifestyle or a modified version of it, as described by asthma gold recently with, with these women.

Basically like saying, Hey, like, Venmo me money. There wouldn’t be so many anecdotal examples of this, of women asking for money if it didn’t occasionally work. So this seems to be, at least in some sub communities, a pervasive behavior.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Meaning that basically women have gone [00:24:00] from. Depending on husbands for money to, depending on boyfriends for money, to now depending on sort of this network of men for money, more like an actual sex worker.

And I, I do wonder if part of this blurring out boyfriends faces is more of that, well, I have to maintain optionality because now I have so little commitment to and commitment from men in my life, my life, and yet I still want a life in which I. Utilize men for money that I need to have an identity that’s completely unmoored from them.

Mm-hmm. I, I, I just, it, it’s, it seems to me like sort of the completely debauched end state of the atomization of society when women cannot depend completely on the state for their support, where they still want to depend also on men or on some kind of pay pig. That they imagine

Malcolm Collins (2): if a man did this, by the way, like he went on dates with a woman and then he is like, here’s my haircut bills, here’s [00:25:00] my, you know, like,

Simone Collins: it’s bad.

It’s, it’s really bad. I think one of the, the examples that Asman Gold wrote off, I mean, I only listened unfortunately to like YouTube videos and stuff while also working, so I half listened to it, but a woman like texted a man being like, oh, I had a salad for lunch. And he is like, oh, what kind of salad?

Like, that’s nice. And she was like, what? You could have even just offered to pay for it. Like why didn’t you even offer to pay for it? Like what? Just really crazy stuff. Yeah, very. So I just it’s to me very strange behavior, but also it’s, it’s very, yeah, if a man did that, if a man did something like that, people would,

Malcolm Collins (2): I almost wanna be a man market just to like do this to women, to freak them out, like.

You could have offered to pay for it.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, what’s so interesting to me is, I mean, in the past there AB and even now, like there are absolutely men who, are kept men. It’s not unheard of. Even in media, for example, in breakfast at Tiffany’s Holly Go lightly has a love interest. The love interest is a kept man.

He, he calls himself an [00:26:00] author but he’s living in an apartment and paid for by a woman who’s married who keeps him on the side. These things, they happen. They’re just a lot less usual for men. So yeah.

Malcolm Collins (2): Anyway, to continue here. Yeah, but there was an overwhelming sense from single and partnered women alike that regardless of the relationship being with a man was almost a guilty thing to do.

On the Delusion Diaries podcast, fronted by two New York based influencers, Halle and Jazz. Oh my god, what names there? Halle and Jazz, the New York based influencer. There you go. They discuss whether having a boyfriend is quote unquote lame Now, quote, why does having a boyfriend feel Republican Republic?

Boyfriends are out of style. They won’t come back until they start to act right. In quote, read another with thousands of likes. In essence, quote, having a boyfriend typically takes hits on a woman’s aura in quote, as one commenter claimed. Funnily enough, both of these hosts have [00:27:00] partners, which is something I often see online.

Even partnered women will lament men and heterosexuality, partly in solidarity with other women, but also because it is now fundamentally uncool to be a boyfriend girl. It is not just in these women’s imaginations. Audiences are ed out by seeing too much boyfriend content.

Myself included, it seems as indicated by my liberal use of the mute button. When author and British Vogue contributor Stephanie Yba, hard launched her boyfriend on social media, she lost hundreds of followers. Whoa. Even if we are still together, I wouldn’t post them here. There’s something cringey and embarrassing about constantly posting your partner these days.

In quote, she tells me, adding that quote, there is a part of me that would feel guilty for sharing my partner constantly, especially when we know the dating landscape’s really bad at the moment. I wouldn’t want to be boastful in quote. I love, they’re acting like. Overly wealthy women not [00:28:00] wanting to like signal too much in like a drought.

Right. And of course what they mean by this, and all of these women are obviously very you know, progressive is that there are is one progressive male for every two progressive females. So if they’re out there dating Oh, requirement, which a lot of these women have

Simone Collins: That’s true. They, they, yeah.

Progressive women. That’s. Yeah. So do you think actually part of this is just, I need to be very protective of my boyfriend because women will chase after him.

Malcolm Collins (2): That could be a part of it. A fear of is he so

Simone Collins: rare? Yeah. To have a progressive boyfriend and also if you’re progressive, you’re way more likely to have to be, you’re, you’re accepted to maybe be more open to being poly or having an open relationship.

Oh, yeah. True. Let’s see if, if I’m a progressive woman and I manage to actually secure my progressive boyfriend, and I really like him. If I post him online, maybe women will be like, oh, like we should date, and then, and then if he gets a lot of inbound inquiries, he’s more likely to pressure me into opening a [00:29:00] relationship because obviously I’m open-minded and progressive, right?

Oh yeah. Hmm. Maybe who knows?

Malcolm Collins (2): Sophie Miller, a content creator also experienced people unfollowing her when she shared a her a romantic relationship quote, this summer, a boy took me to Sicily. I posted about it on my subscribe subscriber section and people replied saying things like, please don’t get a boyfriend exclamation mark.

She admits that her content perhaps becomes less exciting when she’s in a relationship. Quote, being signal gives you this ultimate freedom to say and do what you want is absolutely not every woman, but I do notice that we can become more beige and watered down online when in a relationship, myself included in quote, and I saw that.

That’s really interesting as well as sort of how they’re contextualizing this. They’re contextualizing it in a few ways. They’re saying, one, they expect to get unfollowed if they post pictures of their boyfriend accidentally. So this is like a. Community [00:30:00] behavior that’s evolved.

Simone Collins: Well, and they’ve, they’ve actively seen people get unfollowed when they do post content.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yes. Yeah. And they have a a fear that what was I gonna say? That, that they will look less free if they have a boyfriend. They’ll look less wild. Which, I mean, of course you are. If you have a boyfriend and you get married. Many of the things that we associate with a. Free and wild lifestyle just become pointless, like, not just going to nightclubs or going to bars. Like why would you do that if you have a partner? Right? Yeah. But, but that’s what being wild is in these people’s minds. But more than that you’ve got you know, going on a trip to Greece, right? Going on a boat, going on a, like, if you have a partner, you’re significantly less likely to do these types of expensive and pointless recreational activities that are often associated with clout within an online sphere.

Simone Collins: I think some of this is warranted. People like to follow influencers in, in many cases who are very different from them, but also in many cases who share their lifestyle. [00:31:00] And many people, for example, more commonly bemoan losing their friends to parenthood. Like, nah. Now suddenly, like they only wanna talk about their kids, they’re schedule totally changed.

They’re never available anymore, right? Like depending on your relationship status and family status, you can become quite uninteresting to both friends and followers. I, I don’t. I don’t wanna discount that here. I do think that if, if you’re following this single life like. Lifestyle and, and, and you want to follow people who extol that it’s gonna suck when they get boyfriends.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah. So that’s not, so to tie this up here for my conversations, one thing is certain the script is shifting. Being partnered doesn’t affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement. And if anything is becoming more of a flex to pronounce yourself single As a straight woman, we’re confronting something that every other sexuality has had to contend with.

A politicization of our identity.

Edward’s sexuality has long been purposely

Simone Collins: [00:32:00] yeah. Close the door buddy. Yay.

Malcolm Collins (2): Hello? It’s becoming more of a flex to pronounce yourself single as a straight woman, we’re confronting something that every other sexuality has had to contend with. The politicization of our identity, heterosexuality has long been purposely indefinable, so it is harder for those within it outside of it to critique.

However, as our traditional roles begin to crumble, maybe we’re being forced to reevaluate our blind allegiance to heterosexuality. Of course, you knew that’s where she was going, was this. Okay. Which actually makes sense given how few guys fall into this sort of urban monocultural, ultra progressive worldview as they f face a dra a drought of those guys.

You know, they’re now beginning to be like. Well then it’s a good thing to be single. It’s a good thing to not be with a guy. In fact, that is the harder road to travel. That is the more honorable road to travel. I’m not failing. I’m not bad. I’m actually doing it right. And it is these women with partners [00:33:00] that are doing it the wrong way.

There was a Reddit thread on Ask Feminist that was discussing this, and one of the things that a lot of people mention to begin with, which I think is likely absolutely true, is they’re like, well, you do realize that a lot of these people have parasocial followers that are men and are gooning over them and are going to unfollow the moment.

It looks like they have a boyfriend. Yeah. Sort of the

Simone Collins: Korean pop star. Dynamic where they’re not allowed to have boyfriends because they would lose followers. They would lose their, their fans.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah. Well, like even early in our relationship, I don’t think we posted about it much because you had sort of an online thing.

Octavian I did. Are you my boyfriend? Yeah, I was tiptoeing.

You were tiptoeing. But I heard you and I think the fans heard you. I see. I, he’s the boy and he’s my friend. Are you my [00:34:00] friend buddy? Yeah. All right. So they were pointing out that a lot of these women might, might have like character followers and their boyfriends might as well.

Right.

Malcolm Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins (2): another thing that people noted is that not sharing content that shows you have a boyfriend is a very good way to cheat on a partner. Because then the, the partner themselves and a lot of, I guess. Progressive guys in sort of like open relationships and stuff like that. Probably don’t want it to be known that they’re dating people because they pretend on early dates that they don’t already have a primary.

Simone Collins: That’s another really good point. Yeah. We, we don’t know the extent to which boyfriends are actively asking to be excluded from girls’ social media posts.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah. And now girls are trying to normalize it. You know, if I was, if I was like a, a man sled out there on the market right now, I’d be like sharing this with girls and be like, well, don’t you know, it’s not cool to post pictures.

And then the girls are trying to just

Simone Collins: frame it as their decision. Like, I’m just trying to be independent. But really they’re both, yeah. I’m just trying to help you stay independent. [00:35:00] Oh my gosh. Yeah, but you could see like a, a guy, a boyfriend who’s progressively coded really successfully, both sleeping around and, and, and having a lot of side girls, or like, literally, like, actually I, I don’t know if you remember

Malcolm Collins (2): when Andrew Huberman

Simone Collins: got in trouble for having a lot of.

Girlfriends all at the same time, and they didn’t know for a long time. You just had different girls in all these different places.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah.

Why are you laughing? Yes. Can you, can you go outta the room, please? Is this a teddy bear? Okay. Anyway, so the New York Post had a response to this, which is typically pretty conservative.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins (2): Where they go. To me personally, all this article indicates is that there is a shift in romantic relationships being the ultimate status symbol, platonic connections, family, career, and hobbies and hitting financial milestones are now in the mix. Therefore, being signaled does not make you incomplete.

The article [00:36:00] is sparked Much Debate Online was brilliant, hilarious single women celebrating being unbound from this idea that their lives are sad because they don’t have a man. Mm. Shameless media’s Ruby Hall posted on TikTok dancing to Taylor Swift. The fate of Ophelia was the caption. Apparently it’s chic to be single now.

Fellow TikTok user, Lydia posted a clip of herself waving and blowing kisses to George Michael’s father figure. Thank you British Vogue for making all the girlies that have been single their entire lives feel very powerful right now. A well-deserved win for us, Lydia said. Meanwhile, Lulu Davidson, a pr posted a similar clip to the Mama Mia movie version of the Winner Takes all how it feels to be single.

After British Vogue declared that having a boyfriend is embarrassing. I’m always ahead of the trends. She said, Abby Beov. Who has 1.3 million followers shared a video of herself also celebrating the news while dressed up in the nines, British Vogues comes out declaring that having a boyfriend is embarrassing.

What a time [00:37:00] to be alive and single ladies. And so I love this. First of all, by the way, all of these women who are just so excited to share this news and try to notify this cultural trend, right? Then we have somebody saying, I think the article is less about women rejecting men and more about women rejecting dependency decades.

Being someone’s girlfriend was treated like a personality. She told news au Now we’re swinging the other way. Building entire online identities rather than real identities. I know you that say I choose me. That’s progress. But I can also tip into performance. But it can also tip into performance.

She also said it’s residue from what influencer Tinks called Boyfriend Sickness. When her friend gets into a relationship and disappears. Now it’s also shifted to the online world. Miss Buzz, there was definitely a shift. To celebrating being single. But there was a big shift between I’m single because I’m growing and I’m single because [00:38:00] men suck with only the first being an empowering move.

The real flex isn’t being single or taken, it’s being secure either way. And there are just tons of folks here I could go through of women like agreeing with this, but I wanna get your wider take on this.

Simone Collins: I think this is, like I said earlier, a a a product of sort of the end, end product of atomization of.

Women’s support, both from the state and from men in this case.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. Where we’ve

Simone Collins: gone from, if you want support from men, it’s gone from support, from husband to support from boyfriend, to now support from broad network of male supporters, either like literally through OnlyFans or just through some broad network of hangers on who you text and occasionally ask for money on Venmo.

Venmo, and, and like hook up in exchange for. Vague bits of support, which ultimately aren’t, it’s not enough. It’s, it’s not gonna support their lifestyle. So they’re ultimately doing worse than if they just got married and, and, and [00:39:00] got support from men through that pathway. I also do think that this could have to do with the fact that the dating pool for progressive women is indeed so small that either they just have to normalize the fact that they’re not going to date men at all.

And so a lot of this is sort of social pressure of just like, Hey. I mean, look at the way that people are approaching capitalism now and, and this concept of like home ownership and being financially independent. People now, especially younger generations, understanding that they’re never gonna have access to it are, are now highly critical of the concept of capitalism and possibly even the concept of fiat currency.

And we’re seeing maybe something similar with Okay, well if, if, if having a progressive boyfriend or husband is also so. Unachievable. We need to start questioning whether or not we want it at all. You know, what’s, what is the point? You know, we, or we should also condemn it. You know, this is the, this is the relationship version of Eat the rich or billionaires should be taxed more.

Where [00:40:00] we have to shame anyone who has. This very limited resource that ultimately is aspirational. But we now have to pretend that it’s not because it’s not accessible to everyone. And we have this very inbuilt idea of fairness, which seems to be even stronger in women of this feeling of injustice if things aren’t quote unquote fair.

So I, I think that that’s also a factor.

Malcolm Collins (2): Yeah, that makes sense to me. I think you, I, I mean, I’d be interested to see if this trend spirals more.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins (2): Like, well, how,

Simone Collins: how can it get worse? How can it get worse than women literally disavowing any sort of romantic male commitment. And also at the same time that you didn’t cover it as much demanding essentially micropayments from men in exchange for small sexual, how

Malcolm Collins (2): could it get worse?

It could become seen as like more of an active, bad thing for progressives to date men at all. Think of like polyamory, except how, how is that bad?

Simone Collins: It just eliminates that from society then, you know. Well, I mean,

Malcolm Collins (2): over the long term, but I mean, I, I [00:41:00] could totally see this happening as we move from polyamory being normalized in these communities.

From having nothing but casual sex, and if you’re doing anything other than just casual sex, that’s seen as like a betrayal of the progressive cause.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, that’s very brave new world that in, in, in Alta Huxley’s Brave New World, there’s this, there’s a lot of catchphrases that are a little programs into all of the people in society.

One of those catchphrases is everybody belongs to everyone else, and it’s actually considered. Quite socially, socially questionable. If you start having sex with only one person consistently, at that point, your friends start to sort of pressure you to like, yeah, you should, you should probably start sleeping around like with someone else.

You know, you should, you should not be so exclusive and perhaps we’re, we’re just getting to that point.

Malcolm Collins (2): All right. So it’s already brave New world. That’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. Thank goodness.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. All

Malcolm Collins (2): right. Love you Simone.

Simone Collins: I

Malcolm Collins (2): love you. Did you wanna record another one or just one [00:42:00] today?

Simone Collins: I’m up for recording the Johannesburg one that I outlined.

Okay, great. If you can get just take a break to get Octavia set up with his, I’ll get it, I’ll get it

Malcolm Collins (2): thing set up.

Simone Collins: And would you mind closing the door to the master bedroom I’m in? ‘cause he opened it and didn’t Hey,

Malcolm Collins (2): Octavian. Octavian, come here. What do you wanna say to the subscribers? What do you want to, are you gonna get a mommy one day?

One day? Are you like gonna get married? Yeah. And why, why, why do you want that? Because I wanna ring like, because you wanna ring. Mom has like, I’m like, dad, married mom, right there Like this? Yeah, right there. You see what I’m pointing to? Oh, like she has a ring and you wanna ring like that? Yeah. So, or do you wanna ring more like dad’s ring?

Yeah, like a lot more, like dads a lot more. Okay. Okay. So you wanna get married so you can get a ring. You might be surprised that a lot of women actually feel that way. Octavia. Yeah. That’s why they they wanna get married. And what are you gonna do with your wife? I’m gonna do in wife. [00:43:00] I’m gonna find the let her go.

The helicopter me. Guess what? If you like, and you and I see that, find the person he up and fire to my. President. So he thinks we voted today, and so he thinks he’s gonna become the president. And we talked to him about how the president gets like Air Force One. And so what he’s saying is that if you like this video, he’ll go back after he becomes president and send a helicopter to your house and fly you to the White House.

Is this for real? Are you lying? No, I’m not. No, I’m not. Tonight. Tonight, tonight. The night. If you text, if like, call me about that. Go away. I’m falling apart. They, if they like the video at, at 3:00 AM in the night, you’re going to send a helicopter to their house. [00:44:00] Yeah. And so they’re gonna wake, they’re gonna be woken up by a helicopter landing, but what if it’s dark?

There’s where to be a camera and knife fits in. Oh, so the helicopter people are gonna have night vision? Yeah. Yeah. He’s,

Simone Collins: he’s basically gonna send a SWAT team to people’s house, drag them out of their homes.

Malcolm Collins (2): This is what happens if you like and subscribe. Yeah, this is, you also need to vote

Simone Collins: Octavian in, but I’m sure that’s trivial.

Oh, so they gotta

Malcolm Collins (2): call you, but do you have a phone number? What’s your phone number? They, you can just call the phone number of the White House. So call the phone and I, and they would just, yeah, so they’ll, they’ll handle it. The White House knows he’s gonna be elected. So they’ll just handle all of this for you, him, right.

So you just call the White House [00:45:00] and say, I liked and scribed, so send the helicopter to pick me up at 3:00 AM in. Yeah. And if you keep liking discretion to the videos, if I see, if you do it in early in the night, Ima, when you have to go home, then you could just stay with me. If I keep seeing you do it.

If you don’t see it, if I don’t see it one single day, then you’re gonna kicked out forever. For real. I’m talking forever real. You know how to YouTube buddy. That’s some, that is some making. They have to kick kicked out for only one day. That’s not that much. Oh, okay. Baby. Only one night, once day and the nighttime then they can come back As long as they give me the address.

Yeah. If you don’t give the address, if you show me it, then I’ll not know where you. Don’t get to come to me if you tell me that. So make sure, make sure, make sure. Okay, mixer, [00:46:00] make sure you heard

Simone Collins: it here first. Ladies and gentlemen,

Malcolm Collins (2): do it. Ow. Just do it. Okay buddy. Get up. We’re gonna go find that computer.

Okay, great. My bye. Bye. Love you,

Malcolm Collins: Simone. I love you too.

Malcolm Collins (2): Bye.

Simone Collins: Especially now. I, I’m not Mr.

Malcolm Collins (2): All right. You ready to go? I am sir. How, how are you feeling this morning?

Simone Collins: Good. We, we voted, we got insane amounts of. Holy basil. Oh, it’s so pretty cool because

Malcolm Collins (2): we’re to store it en mass by freezing it, which I didn’t know you could do. And so now it’s just like, oh, we’re gonna blend it, make a sauce, and I would freeze it with an amount of water and an amount of oil [00:47:00] maybe.

The water is

Simone Collins: not advised, just oil. Just cover it with oil. Once it’s minced,

Malcolm Collins (2): just cover it in. What type of oil are we getting is olive oil, I guess. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then freeze it and then we’ll have holy basil all the time because it’s so hard to get Thai basil or holy basil fresh. So we have to drive to the Asian market to get it.

And what’s the other thing? I was telling Simone that our fab is, we’re in the final stage development now for the chatbot feature. So if anybody wants to do testing and like dedicate a certain amount of time a day to testing let me know and I can get you free tokens. And that’s the way that we’re gonna handle that.

So we’ll just adjust your token amount, sort of like paying you. And you could play with chat bots and look for bugs. A good chat bot.

Simone Collins: And it’s paid for, which is, if you’re into that, then you’ll get why that’s valuable.

Malcolm Collins (2): I, I used to spend so much money on chatbots before this. I I literally would spend like a hundred dollars every three weeks, I wanna say.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So basically if you’re a power user type, you will see the [00:48:00] value in what we are offering. Mm-hmm. Because it is better than the even top drawer or chat bot platforms, but. We will cover the cost if you give us some feedback.

Speaker: You look like mommy? Yeah. Does it hurt to walk like that?

No. Do you like looking like mommy? Yeah.

So you wanna be just like mommy one day? Yeah.

Speaker 3: A bouncy castle. Yes.

Whoa. I I felt that like you did. Mommy falls down all the time. Right. She’s kind of cl

i I I love that you associate that with [00:49:00] her.