Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

In this episode, Simone and Malcolm delve into the concept of pronatalism through the lens of U.S. cultural anthropology. They discuss various historical perspectives on fertility and family planning, particularly examining how different American cultural groups viewed marriage, sexuality, and the ideal qualities of a wife. The discussion touches on the often proposed but overly simplistic solutions from certain modern perspectives, such as banning condoms and pornography, and contrasts these with the historical realities and cultural practices of early America. The episode covers a wide range of topics, from the Puritans' value of industriousness and intellectual conversation, to the Backwoods people's emphasis on martial prowess in women, and the Southern aristocrats' focus on beauty and social grace. The hosts also explore the implications of these historical practices for contemporary fertility issues, stressing that arousal and sexuality have long been decoupled from reproductive motivations. They argue that understanding these historical and cultural contexts is crucial for forming effective modern policies and personal decisions related to family planning and fertility.

[00:00:00]

Speaker: Hello, Simone! Today is going to be an exciting episode because we are going to, studying pronatalism through the lens of U. S. cultural anthropology.

Speaker 2: Ooh, academic!

Speaker: Yes, with the idea being. Right now, if you look at, like, the default plans for fixing pro natalism that I often hear on parts of the right, it's like, well, let's ban condoms, and let's ban porn, and let's ban, you know, whatever, you know, right?

And it's like, Okay, so this would increase fertility rates if, historically speaking, the primary reason people had kids was that they couldn't figure out how not to control their sexual urges. Yeah. And cross culturally, this is true, it appears, historically, of some cultures. However, for the vast majority of cultures, particularly that were important in the founding of America, this does not appear to have been true.

[00:01:00] And so what we are going to explore in this episode is what these cultures had to say about their own wife when they were trying to say, like, my wife is better than your wife about young men advice on who to date about what they found hot or attractive or they cheered on and songs and everything like that.

Only one of America's founding cultures. ever referenced the way a woman looked for the other cultures, basically never. And there's actually been some historical stuff looked at this, how attractive a woman was was not referenced was one culture. We'll get into the the Quaker culture in the Pennsylvania region.

So attractiveness is a sign of a bad wife. You wanted a wife who was playing. She was high class all these people are just gonna be stereotypes of what you expect, which is what I love so just like uh Preview here of the backwards people who you mentioned who are like super violent and make up the majority now of like trump's [00:02:00] face and i've always they really like tomboys.

So what did they have to say historically on notes of the state of virginia in? 1785 thomas jefferson observed that in the frontier regions, women were valued for being quote unquote robust and the ability to quote unquote bear fatigue. And Daniel Boone's own writings about his wife, Rebecca emphasized that quote, she could shoot as well as any man in quote, Oh, sweet.

I like that. Simon Kenton, a famous frontiersman wrote admiringly of Daniel Boone's wife, Rebecca quote. She could handle a rifle with the best of them and noted, quote, she could keep the farm and defend it too. That is an ideal woman. Yes, I agree. This, this, this thing you see was in the current frontiers of America, where you have the mud wrestling competition for women.

As we've, we've gone over in other episodes women fighting and showing martial ability is [00:03:00] goes back into American history, but we'll go into what the Puritans wanted and everything like that. But before I go into all of that, one thing I want to. Like really focus on is right now when people have kids the vast majority of kids that are had in the world Particularly in america are not had because of arousal patterns at all It is because a couple got together and decided they wanted kids

Speaker 2: And okay caveat because the the big drop in birth rates that we're seeing in places like latin america Result from basically impulsive teen sex, no longer resulting in babies because of increased birth control.

So I would say for like

Speaker: Everything here is that in every demographic of age range, fertility rates have increased or stayed stable except for under 24. You are right Meaning that

Speaker 2: like, I think the only time when people are having impulsive sex that produces babies, it's because They're insane, hormonally imbalanced teens, or maybe not imbalanced, but you know, like, hormonally revved up.

Speaker: [00:04:00] Their people with very low self control and very low IQ, and they're struggling to not get

Speaker 2: pregnant.

Speaker: Yeah, not myelinated,

Speaker 2: poor impulse control. Yeah, just like, should not be having babies. And honestly, it's not a bad thing. That they're not having babies like that's good

Speaker: And we'll get to this as we go into a lot of these quotes is the cultures that leaned into motivating fertility Through a lack of impulse control.

I. e through banning contraception through banning Pornography everything like that specifically, catholic and mormon culture are the cultures that are actually struggling uniquely was quickly falling fertility rates, whereas the cultures historically and and we'll see this if you look at the old puritan stuff, if you look at the old you know extreme protestant stuff they did not seem to care about sex or sexuality at all And I note that you actually have pretty big evolutionary differences between populations that we've noted The recent study showed, for example, belief in predestination is highly genetically [00:05:00] linked.

And people misunderstand how much of their culture is genetically linked or leans on genetics. An avid culture for generations since the founding of America has not used arousal to motivate childbirth. Of course, they are not going to be impacted by falling fertility rates as much as other cultures and really fascinating in a future episode.

We'll get to Catholics actually have a higher fertility rate when they are in other cultures that haven't genetically adopted to their techniques for increasing rate. i. e. if you're looking in Korea or China or Japan, Catholics will always outbreed Protestants. But if you look at cultures where these two religions are had within populations that have had these religious belief systems for generations, they underbreed Protestants.

That's

Speaker 2: very interesting.

Speaker: And even among the Catholics who have a lot of kids today and the Catholic communities that have a lot of kids today, what you'll see is they don't do it due to a lack of self control. They do it because of a desire to have a lot of kids.

So they have adapted and sort of made [00:06:00] it through this hurdle.

It's just up until the seventies the Catholic tradition really relied on this to keep the fertility rates high. As we can see from, well, the stereotypes of, The community and you'll see as we go through all these communities, they will fit the stereotypes you have of them.

Chris, it's important you learn about your Irish heritage.

Speaker: But let's go to the Puritans.

What were they looking for in a wife in their own words? Okay. Cotton Mather, Puritan minister, wrote in his 1710 work, A Christian at His Calling, that marriage's primary purpose was to raise up a godly seed and that physical relations should be approached with sobriety and moderation. [00:07:00]

Speaker 3: Okay.

Speaker: He told young men that they should seek wives that are industrious and prudent. If you look at his own diary entries about what he thought of his own wife, when he was looking for a second wife after being widowed, he wrote, quote, capacity for managing a household is what he was looking for. And her quote, excellence in discussing religious matters.

This was a woman who he had met, who he ended up. Marrying later. So he really appreciated her ability to have deep philosophical, religious conversations and her ability to manage the family finances. Which very

Speaker 2: useful. Yeah, I guess I'm very practically oriented.

Speaker: Yes, he noted among her chief accomplishments is she's accomplished in prudentials, meaning she was good at practical matters and decision making.

Speaker 2: Prudentials. I love that. Why is there not a section on the Collins Institute skill tree for prudentials?

Speaker: If you look at what he said about [00:08:00] his own wife after they were married, he said, quote, she wastes not her time in idleness or careless gabbing abroad, but is ever industrious in her. Proper business.

And that's how he was praising her not being like, oh, I got a hot wife here or whatever, right? William and we're going to go over lots of different cultures So we're not just going to go over the puritans. We're going to go over the southerners We're going to go over the backwoods people. We're going to yes William gouge an influential english protestant theologian wrote in his 1622 work of domestic duties That married couples engaged in physical relations With moderation, and primarily for the procreation of children, William Perkins, a prominent English Puritan theologian, wrote in Christian Economy, 1609, that the ideal wife should be selected for her, quote, godliness, faithfulness, and diligence in governing the family. He specifically advised young men to look for women who were, quote, skilled in household affairs, and, quote, [00:09:00] of good report for piety. John Cotton in his sermons and writings for Colonial Massachusetts emphasized that a potential life should be evaluated on grace and virtue, skill in household management, and devotion to God.

And If you look at the diary of Samuel Pepin's, the 17th century England, it contains numerous entries about what you should be looking for in a wife, family connections, financial management abilities, household skills, religious devotion, and educational background. Never mentions how they look. In the skillful physicians, and, and by the way, if you're like, well, no culture of this period cared about how they looked, you will actually see one culture, this is the southern culture in America, that frequently and primarily talked about how a woman looked.

Speaker 2: Well, now, okay, hold on. I'm, I'm pretty sure that even in these very practically oriented cultures, they still care about things like, I'm sure if a woman looked unkempt, it would be a sign of her lack of, Prudential skills, you know, so I'm sure they [00:10:00] looked at appearance and what if

Speaker: anything unkempt within the backwards people would have been seen as a edifying thing.

It would have been seen as a and we'll get to instances of this. So certainly

Speaker 2: not among the Puritans. So, I mean, it would suggest low

Speaker: conscientiousness. Right, among the Puritans it would, but the point I'm making is physical appearance in a historic context, if you are an American at least, was not what your ancestors used to motivate reproduction.

Speaker 2: And to attempt They were not looking to date hot Brazilian models. Sorry, viewers. Sorry,

Speaker: yes. Not to burst your bubbles! To motivate fertility you have already lost the entire game. Unless you're trying to create an entirely new culture that values attractiveness and arousal And if so, I would say why like if that's not your historic culture Why are you trying to recultivate that when the cultures that used to thrive through that like because castle culture, for example and here I'm [00:11:00] not talking about high Catholic culture.

I'm talking about like low or poor Catholic culture. If you're talking about like immigrants from Ireland and stuff like that, you see descriptions of this a lot. They have the successful iterations of their culture have completely moved away from that to caring about kids and really having a disinterest in sex and sexuality.

For the vast majority of high fertility cultures within the U. S. and around the world today, having kids is only sexy or arousing if you are really into scheduling.

Which, okay, given the nerdiness of our audience, might be more of you than would be representative within the general public. Great, let's all figure out when I can have sex. Okay, what if Jenna did her DVD commentary while she was getting bejazzled? You know what? We have to look at the whole month.

Ooh, yeah. There it is. I need to cross reference this with my menstruations. I'm gonna have to color code all of this. [00:12:00] Oh yeah, that's nice. This is, um It's getting hot in here, right? If I had a column for my basal body temperature, then I could schedule a round peak ovulation.

Oh God, this whole thing could be a spreadsheet. If we print it in Landscape,

Speaker: The skillful physician actually came up in a lot of these. It was written in 1659 in a popular marriage manual.

Speaker 2: Oh, ooh, okay.

Speaker: And it listed a number of qualities of a good wife, knowledge of scripture, ability to manage servants, skill in household economy, and women have been managing, managing the household wealth for a long time.

Managing household money and stuff like that, many people are like, oh, you let your wife manage the house and the money of the house and everything like that? I'm like, yes, of course, this is like very traditional. At least for my people good reputation in the community and temperance in behavior were the things that were cared about quote, it said, Oh yeah, and I [00:13:00] guess

Speaker 2: if we're talking about the hot crazy graph, they therefore probably not the sexiest women.

Speaker: No, they, they're at the bottom of the hot crazy graph. If they

Speaker 2: have even temperament, they've got to be pretty damn frumpy.

Speaker: Yeah. Can oversee her house, direct her servants, and with her hands, if need requires, do any housewifery. So it's about her own skill as well. Housewifery.

Speaker 3: Housewifery.

Speaker: Now, John Adams, when he was talking to his wife, you know, notable Puritan from early American, really important to the foundation of our country.

So we can see But also Abigail Adams,

Speaker 2: let's just be clear, was like an intellectual in her own right. A huge advisor in his own career. Also like not Not just a, she's, she wouldn't be a tradwife influencer. He would be like, she would have a substack, she would have her own following,

Speaker: if you will. Yeah, so he wrote about her to his friends, and when he wrote about her, he would constantly emphasize her intelligence.

And her character and he noted to a friend that she was a scholar and possessed a [00:14:00] mind that might have adorned a court he particularly praised her knowledge of literature and her ability to engage in intellectual discourse So what you'll see repeatedly here is its ability at intellectual debate on the topics that matter to these individuals either literature or religion That was the primary thing that edified a wife and her ability to manage finances and her industry very different to what people are bragging about today.

In Samuel Seward's diary, 1652 1730, it contains multiple entries about potential wives, where he evaluates them almost entirely on practical and spiritual grounds. In one notable entry about a potential match, he writes admiring of how she, quote, keeps excellent order in her family, end quote, and, quote, shows wisdom in the management of affairs, end quote.

He spends several paragraphs discussing her religious knowledge and household management skills without a single mention of her physical appearance. These people did not ruminate about this, and they did not think [00:15:00] about this, and actually if you look at them talking about what they were looking forward to on their wedding night, because you find this in some of the old Protestant intellectuals, they'll be like, Me and my wife will sit together by the bedside, and we will spend all night praying and having an intellectual conversation about God.

And like, they were not And what we need to understand here is different cultures have different motivation towards arousal and towards sexuality, and some cultures, when they didn't need this motivation, it became merely bred out of them to motivate reproduction. And I think that's part of what we're seeing here

to be more pointed, the core theme of the argument in this piece is that arousal and sexuality have been largely vestigial in humans for hundreds of years.

And thus attempting to use it to motivate fertility within a population is going to have about the same results as using your appendix to try to clean your blood supply [00:16:00] instead of your kidney.

Speaker: because you'll note that they didn't even talk about this in passing, and we'll get to this in a bit, because it's actually really interesting if you, like, analyze their writings more over.

They'll, they'll be very explicit in their sexual conversations, but they actually very similar to this channel where we will have very explicit conversations about the furries or about people who are into like the Omega verse or about like abnormal human sexuality, but we are like an anti horny channel.

You could almost say like, we don't, you don't like put on the horniness to get viewers. I don't. We're literally a husband and wife sitting in separate

Speaker 2: rooms.

Speaker: Yeah, we have no restrictions against talking about sexuality. And this is mentioned in Albion Seed, that the Puritan community of this period, they wrote about sexuality so explicitly that many of their works had to be censored to the 20th century.

But they didn't write about it with horniness, it was just practicality. Okay, so. Ralph Jocelyn, an English vicar, wrote in his diary about potential [00:17:00] matches for his children, consistently focusing on qualities like good housewifery, godly conversation, and prudent dealing. Now this is, this is what I was mentioning before.

The historical record suggests descriptions of women's physical appearance were actually relatively uncommon in formal writing and documents from Puritan and early Protestant periods. If you look at Amanda Vickery's The Gentleman's Daughter, 1998, they analyzed letters and diaries from the 18th century and found that while physical appearance was sometimes written, it was far less prominent in the discussion of character, accomplishment, or domestic abilities when discussing potential marriages.

David Hackley Fisher in LBMC noted that Puritan writing about courtship and marriage Tend to focus heavily on spiritual and practical qualities rather than physical attraction. The historical record suggests descriptions of women's physical appearance were actually relatively uncommon in formal writing and documents from the Puritan and early Protestant periods, which I find really, [00:18:00] really fascinating.

Now, if you're like, okay, so what were they looking for? Thomas Gadker, A Good Wife God's Gift. This was written in 1720 about what you should look for in wives or what good wives do. I mean,

Speaker 2: there weren't a lot of books around back then. How many written guides there actually are for like finding a wife?

Instead of just, I imagine that this was just going to be orally passed down folk wisdom, but you're quoting books. That's really surprising.

Speaker: Only the Puritans are we quoting books, this is what I'll say, okay? Everyone else didn't, didn't with the Faustus quoting letters with the, with the Backwoods people, it's songs.

You know, so yeah, people wrote in different ways. But the Puritans liked their writing, okay? So a good wife, God's gift, 1620, he said that good wives were early risers, good work women and we're not idle, but occupied with honest labor. Look well to the ways of her household. So, really, industry, ability at conversation, specifically intellectual [00:19:00] conversation with the husband, and this is just repeatedly brought back to it.

All these things. It's not like one guy had like a fetish for this. Nobody talked about how their wives looked. They did not care. They did not anticipate sex on their wedding night. They saw it as kind of gross and something that you needed to bear through to have kids. John Robinson, a Puritan pastor, wrote, The most praiseworthy quality of a wife was painful and diligent in her place.

Painful meant hardworking and industrious in the language of the time. I, I love that. So now we're going to talk about the Quakers, which were the most similar to the Puritans and what they told people they wanted, but they were really anti talking about sexuality. So in the way that like our show, like does not care about talking about sex or sexuality, we're just not horny about it.

They were like terrified of sexuality. So William Penn, in advice to his children, emphasized that a good marriage match should be based on the things that are of God, rather than worldly attributes. He specifically advised somebody looking for plainness [00:20:00] in a wife, meaning simplicity and authenticity.

And And the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting records from 1700's show that when marriages were being approved, so they needed to be approved they focused on the couple's commitment to Quaker principles, their clearness from other relationships, their ability to support themselves through honest manual labor, and their plain way of living.

You had to be extra plain. In John Willman's journal, Mid 1700s, he wrote about marriage in terms of spiritual compatibility and shared commitment to Quaker values. When describing his own marriage to Sarah Ellis, he focused entirely on her, quote, grave and modest deportment.

I love this. She had a very grave deportment, so you know she's a high quality woman. Not like her butt's nice or anything like that. This woman, let me tell you. She

Speaker 2: sounds like the, like, joke comedy skit version of a Puritan woman.

Speaker: Yes, a very, but this was Quakers, okay? So keep in mind, the Quakers are the ones who are all about, like, grave and honest, everything like that.

They wanted [00:21:00] honest, plainness, the Puritans wanted industry and intellectual conversation. So very different here, actually. They're sort of similar, but very different. He wanted a woman who was esteemed as a dutiful daughter, a careful and loving sister. Which is, is, is really, really interesting. Is that the, the Quakers wanted plainness, they wanted simplicity, they wanted a level of graveness.

All of this was like socially edifying for them. Whereas the Puritans were much more interested in their personal relation with the wife and how the wife would contribute to their income. Basically, I want her to be good with finances, good with work around the house, good at managing the servants. I want her to be able to have good intellectual conversations.

And this is one of the cultures that Simone and I are, are descended from. And, and the other culture we're descended from is the backwoods culture, which I'll get to right here. So we, know that Thomas Efferson said that he, he wanted them to be, they were robust. And had a to bear fatigue.

That's what they were judged on. Primarily. [00:22:00] And as we mentioned with Daniel Boone, he said of his wife, she could shoot as well as any man. As I mentioned, martial prowess. It was really important in these cultures. This is ability to defend themselves ability to defend the homestead. Because as I was told growing up is, you know, one of the descendants of part of this culture is weak women make weak sons.

And this is very different from the way the southern culture saw this, which we'll get to in a second. This was a greater Appalachian cultural group or the backwards cultural group of America. And so early American folk songs and stories from the frontier regions praise women for being strong enough to help with field work, capable of defending the homestead, able to bear children under harsh conditions and skilled at practical tasks like spinning, weaving and preserving food.

And as you saw from the book we read about my grandfather, he talked about this. He said that my mother could make a meal that a, a skilled chemist could not improve upon and that she could spin, you know, is the best of them and very interested in like My mom could do better wifing tasks than the best scientists and [00:23:00] industrialists of our era could do.

And as I mentioned, you know, Sam Kenton, he said of Daniel Boone's wife that she could keep the farm and defend it and handle a rifle with the best of them. But we actually see this in other areas. So In several accounts in the Draper Manuscripts, a collection of frontier histories and interviews, they mention women as being particularly valued for ability to man a defensive position during raids, process game and preserve meat, handle firearms competently, manage livestock independently.

And so this is why I think when you look about like the descendants of the greater Appalachian culture. While you see, like, the noodling girl and stuff like that, this is a girl who catches a giant catfish, but you see the women hunters as this esteemed group that you're supposed to, like, oh, this, this is what the perfect wife is.

It's a woman in camo who knows how to shoot, who knows how to defend her property. Very different from what you would think of the old Southern value, which is, like, the female aristocrat of the Deep South.

Speaker 2: Yes, although I think that these standards also, and even our [00:24:00] standards for partners now, are a big reflection of the society that surrounds them.

I mean, what you see here, Are indications that these are people living in a society with low I guess low trust or high levels of violence or what is it called? Like vigilante justice, you know, people are expecting. I literally

Speaker: do not disagree more with what you're saying right now.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean, while.

If you

Speaker: encounter examples across

Speaker 2: the board. Also, society, hold on. In which people are expected to process their own food. So this is like a low industrialized society. Versus like areas that were more, we'll say in like, early proto industrialized, where women were more expected to be able to like, manage accounts well, manage their finances.

Let's completely

Speaker: display your argument with historical and modern examples. So, as a modern example, we can look at many societies that are low trust, very violent, very clannish, like the Middle East where women are expected to shut up, do what they're told, and are [00:25:00] definitely not valued for their ability to fight, use guns, beat up other women to

Speaker 2: their surrounding societies.

But I still think that the standards of an ideal partner reflect their surrounding society. Well, and I'm pointing out that this isn't

Speaker: true. So if you look in modern context which is the descendants of the greater Appalachian cultural group where we have pointed out before that they have less selling context for Competitions for women, where women are very clearly being, this is not about like Degrading them or something.

This is men being like the woman who can beat up the other woman in a mud wrestling competition. And you see these women are not holding back. Like in one of the videos that I posted before, one of the women looks like she's holding back a little. And the other woman just goes at it and slams her and.

The audience loves this.

Speaker 36: Yeah! Oh! Oh! Yeah, man! We've been so ready! Oh, hang on, he's, he's got a pin somewhere! Woo! [00:26:00] Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! We're gonna give that a count. We got

Speaker 38: kickoff? Yeah!

Speaker 36: Woo!

Speaker 38: Woo! Yeah! Woo! Oh! She's up! She's good! She wants out! She wants out! Give up! No! We're gonna go

yeah! Woo! Nicely done!

Speaker: This is a modern context. The, the, the TV shows that these people grew up with, the radio stations, these people grew up with the news. They grew up with none of them lauded this. This is completely due to either genetic selection for these forms of preferences or a cultural memory that goes back generations in terms of what a good wife is and you saying, Oh, it's just what's around them.

This is like. factually untrue. Otherwise, what we would see is in the low trust Islamic out there regions right now where like ISIS is, they'd be like, oh, we want a woman who can fight, which is [00:27:00] not what they want because they aren't a truly martial culture. They are a culture that is a sort of ordered form of martialism, which we talk about in other videos.

You can see this in our other videos on this. But yeah, that's not true. Do you want to, do you have a counter argument to that or?

Speaker 2: I just don't find your argument to be very compelling. And I think that when you look at each of these cultures. And you see the amenities of people who control their lives.

Explain, if you don't find

Speaker: it compelling, explain how the Appalachian Cultural Group maintained this value without containing control of their media environment.

Speaker 2: What do you mean control of their media environment?

Speaker: They don't, so Appalachian Cultural Group, for generations, first, basically hasn't written books.

They don't produce movies. They don't produce any, any form of like, so when their kids are growing up and they're trying to normalize to what's culturally normal, they are reading books that are produced by whether it's Puritans during the past, or by modern modern. I think that's more of an argument

Speaker 2: in my favor.

That's an argument that. You grew up to respect the [00:28:00] fact that your mother can defend your home with a gun and that your mother can process meat because you are living, you're much more likely to be living on a farm in a highly rural area without a butcher in town. I wasn't

Speaker: living on a farm in a highly rural area and I still grew up respecting all of that.

All of this is about cultural transmission and not about the context of their daily life.

Speaker 2: I hear that and I think that there is. Some inherited interplay like we are realizing more and more with our kids that a lot of what We thought were just quirks of our personality are probably genetic. Just like how insistently are you interested in things?

Speaker: Attraction profile, preference for a wife, everything like that is genetic and that it needs to be paired with a culture that works with. Yeah, but I

Speaker 2: think that these are downstream of selective pressures, which were produced by their surroundings in society.

Speaker: Yeah, obviously all selective pressures are produced for their society.

But the point I'm making is [00:29:00] these things persist generations, like a hundred years after the selective pressures existed. That's not that

Speaker 2: many generations, Malcolm.

Speaker: That's a long time if you're talking about American history.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but not if you're talking about the number of ancestors. I understand if you're talking

Speaker: about the number of ancestors, but what you're acting like is that groups just basically cave to the surrounding cultural pressures when that's like objectively not true.

Speaker 2: No, but they

Speaker: also,

Speaker 2: keep in mind, they also select for similar cultural pressures. So, your family kept just migrating out to like new frontiers and trying to build their own new civilizations going out to Texas. My family made their way to California and, and tried to, like, you know, go out to the frontier there and rebuild San Francisco after it burned down in 1908.

So, like, again, like, these things have an interplay, and I think you're much more likely to find someone of Scots Irish descent who maintains those cultural values if their family continued to [00:30:00] lean into the environments that also leaned into the selective pressures that support those values.

Speaker: Yes, you're definitely going to find that, which means you need to pay attention to that and how you choose your family environment.

But I think the point you were trying to make earlier is a lot of this is just cultural and it's not. It's, it's, it's, it's cultural like, like modern pop cultural. I wasn't saying

Speaker 2: it was cultural. I was saying it was a product of their surrounding society. That, for example, in Puritan, in the Puritan colonies.

People needed devout, conscientious, sober wives because this was a highly religious settlement in which people lived in tight knit communities in which people played different roles. And you needed people who were very like, who played the right role within their communities.

Speaker: I really disagree with this.

All the stuff that you're talking about right now was an intentional cultural choice of the Puritans when they moved into these environments, which differentiated from the [00:31:00] cultural choices that led to the genetics that led to things like the Quakers or the Southerners or the Appalachians. And if you look at again, I disagree.

So you

Speaker 2: haven't even gotten to the Southerner criteria, but you know, this was. What we're talking about is the second sons of the UK immigrating and trying to make their fortune. These are people who came with wealth, they owned land, so they went for ornamental lives. And this is a product of the resources in their surroundings.

Speaker: Everything, so not just their mental profiles, but I think their physical genetic profiles. If you look at Quaker women it seems pretty obvious to me that they were selected by plainness. Like, no shade on, like, the Quaker community but this is a community that intergenerationally selected for plainness.

If you look at the Puritan community, you see, like, if you look at you, for example, Simone your physical appearance, you do not look that different from the Puritans that you would have seen in art back in the day. And I [00:32:00] can put art on the screen here, people can see you look. A lot like them in your physical facial features, which are really focused on one like intellectual conversational ability.

This is something that you were clearly selected for and industriousness and looking industrious. Like you have a face that looks like a wife. Who's going to do a lot of work and not put up a fight. But like I look at you, I'm like, Oh, this is a woman who looks financially sound and industrious, more than a rousing in a traditional sense.

If you look at what happened to the southern women, they became very ornamental in their looks. These women are the most traditionally attractive within the United States. I don't think most people would argue that. And if you look at the Appalachian women, they became very robust. Compared to the other women.

And if you like tomboys, you're going to like the women that are produced by this culture. And so I think that we also see this sort of etched into the characters. And this is something that we try to ignore because everyone's focused on, like, ethnic differences instead of, like, [00:33:00] interracial differences where we select it into these cultures.

And that, for example, if a woman looked like Simone, looked, like, industrious and prudent and, and intellectual she would be if she was born into a different culture, suppose she was born into the abolition culture and my family lived alongside that cultures that were like part descended from that culture you would have been selected into our family.

Right, like really early on in that cultural period or if you were born to a quaker family You might have found a higher quality husband within a purity family Because and this is how you get these sort of genetic vortexes that happen really quickly culturally that can end up mattering a lot more And the ethnic cultural vortexes that everyone's so focused on.

But if we go back to what were the backwoods people looking for, okay? So, William Byrd II, while not strictly a frontierman, wrote in his journals about backcountry women he encountered, noting with approval how they could ride a stride and handle An axe as well as a needle. So these are things that they [00:34:00] were seen as good about them.

Can they handle an axe as well as a needle? What was really interesting is Mary Ingalls who escaped native american captivity was often praised in contemporary accounts for her Not for her appearance, but for her quote Extraordinary constitution and ability to survive in extreme conditions So to be captured and to fight back about your capturers.

Remember I mentioned that like How do you choose a good wife? Who gets in a good position during a raid? Who can escape Native American captivity? This is not what the other cultural groups are interested in, but martial prowess was the number one thing that they were looking for. Toughness in a wife.

A bearish fatigue, as he said. So contemporary accounts of Betty Zane, who became a frontier hero for carrying a gunpowder during the siege of Fort Henry in 1782, were widely shared as retold,, so this is a woman who is being praised within these cultures. If you look at more modern iterations of women, you know, you don't just have the mud relish the lilies of today.

You don't just have the, the noodler women of today.

Speaker 29: That was [00:35:00] good. Woohoo! That's a good one. There we go.

Speaker: You have individuals like Annie Oakley, who secured her husband by beating him in a duel, and by Butler's own accounts, when he talked about what he liked about Annie Oakley, he emphasized her shooting and her practical skills, saying, quote, I fell in love with her courage and determination not, you know, what she looked like or anything like that.

Any any thoughts about the Backwoods people before we go to the Southerners here?

Speaker 2: I'm still just seeing the products of selective pressures of an environment, but carry on.

Speaker: Selective pressures were a selected environment, so it doesn't make any difference. No,

Speaker 2: they, I mean, okay, the Scots Irish did not Choose to go to the backwoods.

They were kind of forced in there by the quakers who were like get the hell out of here You are that's not really true. They came over on like the Okay, let's talk about

Speaker: where every group chose to [00:36:00] immigrate to because you are being just intent like I don't know. Do you not remember? Like the The

Speaker 2: cold and rocky ground of New England.

Speaker: They specifically chose settlements that were very rocky because they were harder to plow because they wanted to emphasize industriousness in their daily life. I feel like

Speaker 2: that's apocryphal. It seems It's kind of weird. I mean, there was no, no, no, no.

Speaker: Why did the Backwoods people move to the areas where there were constant Klan conflicts?

Speaker 2: Well, there were constant Klan conflicts among them, even in Scotland. Because they were

Speaker: moving from areas where there were constant Klan conflicts. They created the nature of the environment. The Appalachian Mountain area wasn't hostile because it was an innately hostile area or the Native Americans there were more hostile than other Native Americans.

And why? They weren't. No, they weren't. They were hostile because the Backwoods people were there fighting with the Native [00:37:00] Americans and fighting with each other. If you look at the pre area, the Native Americans in the Appalachian region were not more hostile before the Backwoods people got there than any of the other Native American communities.

Yes, the Backwoods people did act as a buffer zone that the Quakers sort of laid out in that region, but the Backwoods people also intentionally sorted into this region. Thank you.

Speaker 2: Well, anyway, carry on.

Speaker: No, but it's important to note. As you mentioned, we're like, if a woman was disproportionately you know, like, attractive to one of these groups, or had attitudes that was disproportionately attractive to one of these groups, she was likely to marry into them, which leads to this vortex.

But also, if an individual is born to a Quaker group and they are more martial, they are more interested in being rowdy and fighting and you know, Maybe like girls who are rowdy and fighting and everything like that. They're going to move out of that community and into the backwoods. If a Puritan was born that way, he's going to [00:38:00] move out of that community and into the backwoods.

If a Quaker was born less like focused on their status, less focused on how other people saw them and was more interested in intellectualism for intellectualism's own sake, they're going to move to the Puritan community. They're interested in being an ornamental wife. They're going to move to the Deep South's community.

This is the way these things work and create I feel like

Speaker 2: you're overstating the social mobility of that time.

Speaker: You don't need to overstate the social mobility because all of these groups lived adjacent to each other. So even if you don't have pure social mobility, you're going to have a degree of genetic social osmosis, which is going to strengthen every one of these groups within these regions.

And if you're talking about, like, the Southern You're like, oh, it's just an accident that the aristocrats from England moved to the part of the United States where slave cropping worked. The people who had never worked a day in their lives wanted to move and create a culture where they didn't have to work a day in their lives.

No, that wasn't an accident. That [00:39:00] literally was how they the original descendants of the Cavaliers. They weren't one of these other groups and that's the way they wanted to live their lives. What you're missing is you're looking at like the Backwoods region or you're looking at the Puritan region and you're saying that these regions motivated these cultural traits when in reality, it's the exact opposite.

Cultural traits motivated the groups that settled in these regions, not the other way around. When the original descendants of the Cavaliers. We're looking for a place to set up within the United States. They had colonies in the northeast as well Remember, they thought they could like find gold there and stuff but they didn't end up staying in those regions because they weren't able to build an easy life for themselves Which is what they wanted an easy life based on slaves or whatever else.

Speaker 2: So you're over You're also so new england was good for like small scale agriculture, which is exactly what these small puritan communities wanted Whereas what the [00:40:00] Cavaliers were going for was like large scale industrial farming, which the South was good for.

Speaker: Exactly, but the point I'm making is that their culture was not downstream of their environment.

Their environment was downstream of their culture. And you are implying that the environmental conditions shape the culture instead of the opposite, which is what really happened. And that better explains that cultures are actually much more durable, both genetically and intergenerationally, in terms of how you should find a wife, or how you should think about wives, or anything like that, than you would think.

And if you're growing up in a modern context, and you are attempting to Slap whatever you think of as generic masculinity onto a genetic cultural framework that wasn't built for that. You are going to fail. This is why and we'll do another episode on this in the future. In East Asia, Christians, despite their high fertility rate in other communities, actually have a lower average fertility rate than Buddhists in these [00:41:00] communities.

What? Why? It's because they haven't. Genetically work together for many generations, and they don't mesh. Well, you have everything from how you find a wife to what you find attractive to what you like in a partner to what you want to do is your white life to how you want to handle your business or start a business.

All of this is a genetic cultural pool that you need to take into account when you're thinking about this. And this idea of, oh, just ban porn or just ban contraception is so pig headed and wrong if you're looking at like actual American history, which is the point of making it. Okay. So if we're going to the deep South, what did they care about?

As she, you know, we've been talking about. So, Landon Carter's diary includes entries about potential matches for his children, where he discussed things like breeding, genteel manners and he noted one woman's , graceful carriage, and how she was well taught in the accomplishment.

Proper to her station Robert Carter, also known as King Carter of Virginia, wrote letters [00:42:00] about potential matches for his children that emphasize the importance of quote unquote good breeding and being from the better sort. In one of his letters discussing potential marriage, he noted approvingly that the young lady was quote unquote well bred and dances was exceeding grace.

Lucy Pike Brid was described in contemporary accounts of having quote, beauty and accomplishments. And that made her a desirable match. Her marriage negotiations, as recorded in various letters, emphasized her education in, quote, refined arts and her ability to manage a grand household in the proper style.

The, and you'll note here, so these women were lauded for something very different from the other women. It was when they care about their education. So when the Puritans talked about education, what are they always talking about? How good of a conversational partner? Was she able to engage me in in depth religious discussion or literature discussion?

Where in the South, it's, does she have knowledge of the refined arts? Like, is she able to signal her class status well? Is she of [00:43:00] the better sort? Is she beautiful? Can she dance gracefully? Very, very, very different sort of a thing to look for in a breeding partner. The Southern Cavalier culture presented a notable contrast with Puritan and Frontier attitudes.

In Cavalier culture, such as the American South, particularly among the planter class, there was much more emphasis on physical beauty, refinement, and social graces in describing potential wives. William Berks II's diaries in early 18th century Virginia provide a good example of this. Unlike His description's a backcountry woman.

When writing about potential matches in his own social class, he frequently mentioned the women's appearance, dancing ability, and social graces. He described one potential match as having, quote, a very good shape and a great deal of wit, end quote. Philip Vickens Philanthropy, a tutor in Virginia in the 1770s, wrote detailed observations of how young women in planter society were evaluated.

His journals note how young ladies were praised for their grace in dancing, beauty in department, skill in music [00:44:00] and entertainment, ability to manage social occasions, and accomplishments, where accomplishments were designed as things like French music and drawing. The diary of Colonel Landon Carter, a prominent Virginia planter has numerous appearances to ladies appearance and social graces that you would never find in, in Puritan or Quaker or even backwoods culture.

Which I find really interesting. And I think that as we think about how can we motivate high fertility within our own society, it's really important to note that within American culture, at least historically, high fertility, Both in a modern context and in a historic context was almost never motivated by arousal.

Speaker 3: Hmm.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's, I mean, okay, you've demonstrated that across cultures, there are very, very different criteria. But none of these are like, how hot is she? It may be How much can she signal that she came from landed gentry, or how much can she signal Yeah,

Speaker: and the [00:45:00] one culture that cares about hotness, the southern culture

Speaker 2: That's not even hotness.

That's not even hotness. There was, I mean, it was about good posture, but that is a reflection It's about, like, beauty and class, yeah. Yeah, it's a reflection of investment in costly signaling that is a sign of wealth. So yeah, even, even the culture that we would argue is the most aesthetically oriented, it doesn't even have to do with being Attractive.

So that's really interesting.

Speaker: And I think that it leads to people to make massive mistakes in how they're treating this situation. Is that humanity, most of humanity, decoupled arousal from the number of kids you have centuries ago. Millennia ago. And yet Men today are like, how are you going to motivate sex if you have access to pornography or if you have another way to like

Speaker 2: this was, this was never the issue.

This was never the issue.

Speaker: Exactly. And I, and I also wonder if maybe these groups are less susceptible to [00:46:00] pornography. So one of the things I've noticed about groups, I've mentioned this. That are because one thing we've noted in previous episodes is that you really only see problems with pornography addiction in individuals who attempt to, like, keep pornography away from themselves or, like, regulate the ways that they interact with pornography, and I've been like, well, I've been really dismissive of it, but I've also noted that within Puritan culture, there is a note that as the culture began to degrade, really.

And culture that was really teetotaling, like really anti alcohol then became some of the most alcoholic culture there was. And I know it's a classic thing about Baptists, primitive Baptists, which is a type of Calvinist. The, the line from where I grew up is like, Jews deny Christ. Catholics deny.

I can't remember something offensive and Baptist deny knowing each other at the liquor store. It was the idea being that the drinking a lot is really common in this cultural group, but it's really common in both of our families. And we've had a couple generations to basically come to terms with this.

So we, we can handle it [00:47:00] now. Whereas. To an extent. I mean, I still take naltrexone to handle it. If I look at the cultures that may be struggling the most with spornography, they may be groups that had historic bans against stuff like this and motivated reproduction through fertility, like Mormon communities, which is where you hear about the most problems with porn addiction and stuff like that.

So it might just be that they don't have a genetic resistance to it that would have been built up by other communities.

Speaker 2: Hmm. That's plausible. Yeah.

Speaker: One of the things you said to me is you were like, look, once you're married and an adult, like basically nobody over 35 is having kids. Not even over 35.

Nobody I'd say over 28 is having kids because of arousal issues.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah. Because of. Impulse control around sex. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I guess the one exception where we, I feel like we still see this taking place is with Mormons because they can't have sex outside of marriage and they are encouraged to get married really young and many do like expedite marriage [00:48:00] because

Speaker 3: they're

Speaker 2: kind of eager.

And then they do have, I mean, at least historically they've had better birth rates. I feel like things are kind of falling apart there, but that's the only example I can really think of where sex drive is playing a factor in fertility.

Speaker: When we talk about, you know, culturally or genetically, like, some individuals have been like, oh, you guys are really gross in that you create your children outside of Of the mom and dad having sex, right?

Because we use IVF, we use genetic selection, stuff like that. And I'm, and I'm like, oh my god, I like, I have the exact opposite inclination, which is what is grosser than knowing that I'm a product of my mom and dad having sex. Yeah,

Speaker 2: seriously. Come on, guys. It seems really

Speaker: disgusting. And then you read these ancient Puritan writings, where they're like, Sex should only be engaged in with moderation and only to produce children.

It was clear that these were not individuals who, they would have had [00:49:00] a, a more I'd say, temperate reaction to, like, gleeously enjoying sexuality. Which some groups have attempted to do to increase Where I see a lot of you, you, you see this in like, for example, some Jewish groups where they're like trying to make sexuality like fine and, and, and like enjoyable.

And they're like, oh yes, you really need to take joy when it's like these classic Puritans. They were like, no, like sex is a duty. Like schedule it. Okay, do what you have to do. The point is kids you can really always hear them sort of sighing under their breath. It's like I know and I think that if we deny These differences or specializations around having kids we're gonna have a huge time motivating Increasing fertility rate within people of different predilections, and if you don't know who your ancestors were, you should at least be able to search yourself for your own predilections and understand that maybe you are not a good candidate [00:50:00] to motivate having lots of kids because you don't have access to any other way to get off.

Or maybe you are not a good candidate for any other way. Maybe you would only have a lot of kids if you were young and reckless and had all other means of getting off denied to you. And I think it's this degree of self knowledge, which is really important that is sort of erased today because of this belief of Blake Slade ism and all humans are the same.

When we're not.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: Anyways, love you to the next one. We can go to the next episode on Chinese people being the new Jews.

Speaker 2: Thank you for keeping me entertained, Malcolm. That that is, that is your duty as a husband. Do I

Speaker: entertain you as a husband? I am entertained.

Speaker 2: I am entertained. I will let you live another night in this house.

Yeah. Final thoughts. Just, yeah, I totally agree with you. Once again, we are highly disappointed by people who think that somehow it makes sense to ban [00:51:00] porn and ban condoms and all this other nonsense. If you want to lose our respect for your intellectual capabilities really quickly. Just come up to us and be like, why don't we just ban condoms?

Speaker: Well, I think that this works within communities that historically use this to motivate high fertility But you need to be strict in how you do it and you can't use the government as we pointed out For example, catholic communities when they are minorities in other countries have a much higher fertility rate than when they're the majority within their country

Speaker 2: Yeah, tend to your own flock.

You've got to have that internal strong community And if you don't have that then yeah, when you when you outsource it to your government all that internal strength Just goes away. It's no good.

Speaker: By the way, if you're wondering why we're not mentioning early American Catholics, because they basically didn't exist.

They were like 1. 2 percent of the American population. It might be like 1. 5 percent at the time of the revolution. People were like, what about Maryland? That was a Catholic colony. No, Maryland was only around 10 percent Catholic. Catholics basically didn't exist until the Irish and Italian immigrant waves.

The Great Replacement already happened. See [00:52:00] our episode on that. Love you today, Simone.

Speaker 2: Love you too, Malcolm. You already have the other link, so I'll just see you in there.

Speaker: So on Reddit, they were before the Super Bowl, they were like, Oh, Trump's going to get booed at the Super Bowl. It's going to be awful. I predict this is like the top post on Reddit. Then gets cheered by everyone. Taylor Swift gets booed. What? Wait, why did Taylor Swift get booed? I think just because she's so Even like normie was the person that

Speaker 2: she's dating was he on the team that lost so

Speaker: The people were not, you know excited

Speaker 3: I

Speaker 2: loved octavian's commentary on The super bowl. What do you have to say? Well, I have video of it. He refers to it as soccer. He told me that you know, the eagles should win That they're great. And that the other team, maybe he called it the red team. He kept saying, we don't know what they're doing.

We don't know what they're doing. [00:53:00] We don't know what they're doing. I'm like, well, what, what is their mascot? What are they? And he's like, I don't know. It was, it was really sweet. Remember when he came home, like literally wearing an Eagle's hat. I don't remember ever in my public school, there being discussion.

Of sports.

Speaker: So I grew up in Dallas and this is when the Cowboys like won the Super Bowl or whatever it's called. Did they do the Super Bowl? Anyway, yeah, they everyone would always be like, oh, what do you think of them? Cowboys when I like travel to other places. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. They're good.

Whatever

Speaker 2: happened to the Dallas. Oh, you know what? Now I feel like the Dallas Cowboys are actually more famous for their cheerleaders than they are for. They were famous for their

Speaker: cheerleaders when I was a kid, Simone. Yeah, their cheerleaders are in,

Simone Collins: yeah, but there was recently a Netflix documentary about them.

So then that's what people think.

Join Malcolm and Simone in an engaging conversation with Leaflet from the YouTube channel 'Leaflet and Asari.' They delve into her experiences in 'nerd culture,' her career at iconic companies like Riot Games and Blizzard, and her creation of popular game characters like Lux and Pantheon. The discussion covers Leaflet's beginnings in streaming, the challenges she faced, and how she transitioned to YouTube, along with her involvement in various game projects and novels. They also touch on controversial topics, cultural commentary, the differentiation between streaming and YouTube audiences, and the exciting release of her free-to-play game, Lyrian Chronicles, by Angel's Sword RPG.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Malcolm and Simone and I have a guest here today, who is one of the channels that I actually watch the most outside of our own, which is Leaflet from Leaflet and Asari, and if you haven't seen her channel she does cons well, I'd say, like, right leaning by today's standards takes, maybe not by old standards takes, takes place.

Bye. On a lot of topics, but she has a lot of experience in I guess I'd call it nerd culture. Early in her career, she worked at companies like Riot Games and Blizzard. I know you design

Leaflit Mitsuha: lux. Lux is One of the ones that I, that's probably the, that's probably the one that most people know about. Yeah, looks.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah and then the Spartan looking one. Yeah, Pantheon. Look for the rework, yeah. And I really like you in one, as an example of, and I wanted to talk with you, as well as, as through your evolving fan base as somebody, I think you started in streaming, right?

Like, like, like streaming video games and

Leaflit Mitsuha: stuff. Mostly video games. I started actually I think [00:01:00] 2011, 2012. Holy moly. Yeah. There is a site called own 3d back then. It was like before there wasn't Twitch, Twitch became, Twitch is just in, but their competitor was own 3d. And then They folded and then I, I messaged Justin.

I was like, Hey, can I get like partner? Cause it was partner on own. They're like, nah, I'm like, so then I kind of just stopped streaming for a bit. And then, yeah, it ended up coming back later.

Malcolm Collins: So you built your audience on streaming and now you've, I don't know, is YouTube like your main goal right now, or do you mostly stream and YouTube's like a secondary thing for you?

Leaflit Mitsuha: The funny thing is, is there, they're, they're kind of separate because I do the live streams, but I actually don't. Manage too much on YouTube I don't really have time for it because I'm, as you know, I'm working on, like, the other, the game projects and we'll also have, like, novels coming out and stuff.

So we're working on all I'm working on that stuff because I'm like, the lower person for the [00:02:00] company. So I'm working on that. You're doing like a

Malcolm Collins: game. We had Archon recently. He's also doing a game. We're doing a game. I like this. I like this new thing. Everyone is like all the, all the like, based influencers need to be making games because this is where we're going to get like interesting ideas.

What is actually, before we go further, I want you to talk a bit about this game because I'm, I'm just interested in like sure.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's a, it's basically, I, I play a lot of like tabletop, a lot of Dungeons and Dragons Pathfinder. And some other Japanese games, and I want we wanted to make, like, our dream game.

So our idea was to make that game, but, like, free to play and constant updates because, like, 1 problem that, like, like, Dungeons and Dragons has, for instance, is. Everyone has to get the book. So sometimes you have people that don't have the book and then updates like say, there's like a really broken mechanic in the game.

They can't really update it. You have to update it in like a magazine. Right? And then now nobody has the same rules because not everybody saw the magazine. [00:03:00] So the idea behind our games, everything's online. And we patch every like two to three weeks. So it was like new classes, new items, new races being added all the time.

Okay, wait. So what, what, what's the theming of

Malcolm Collins: the universe?

Leaflit Mitsuha: Actually, everything is linked to the stream. Like, like me and like my mom and. The novels, they're all linked in the same universe.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, I don't know the novels, so tell me about, is this a fantasy universe? Is this a generic fantasy? What's the twist on the generic?

What's the

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's kind of like, like a, it's fantasy, but it has like high power, and like high, high magic. Sort of, people that like things like anime would like it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah yeah. Okay, I think I know what you mean. When you say high power, do you mean sort of like high elf culture, i. e. like high culture high power fantasy?

Like, there's

Leaflit Mitsuha: a lot of, like, magic and like, like, some abilities are super ridiculous. Like, there's like chronomancer class in our game and they can just stop time. And like, they can, they can just completely stop like a non So that we have a differentiation between like [00:04:00] Heroic units, which are like the like player characters, and then the non, one's called grunts and almost all the enemies are grunts except for like bosses and grunts are basically susceptible to like these big, like magics, like insta kills and like time freezes and stuff like that.

Malcolm Collins: So like the DND world before the I forget that event.

Leaflit Mitsuha: I don't actually, the truth is I don't know much about the DND lore itself because I've always homebrewed. I've always been like that person to homebrew everything. So like.

Malcolm Collins: Hold on, you, you at least played through that recent D& D game. I did, I

Leaflit Mitsuha: did, I played that one, yeah.

Baldur's Gate, okay, so,

Malcolm Collins: so it was implied in Baldur's Gate. Sorry, I just, I'm sorry, I am a nerd for lore. I love deep lore stuff. Me too, I love it. Okay, okay, okay. But D& D, actually, the lore is not that good. There's some, like, really good lore. If you're, like, into lore, I can be like, Oh, you gotta go into this lore.

Like, this lore is great. D& D lore is Top tier lore is either gonna be Vampire the Masquerade, Absolutely top tier lore, Or who else has top tier lore? Warhammer 40k has top tier [00:05:00] lore. Not Warhammer Fantasy. And but anyway, so in Deity, they mentioned it a few times in this is that the world used to have like tons of magic and then the god of magic, I think her name was Mithra, she's the one that Wes's face like had a crush on or something.

Anyway, like the world somebody cast like a too high level spell and it ended up breaking. Oh yes, to try to like take her power or something, and it ended up removing her for a split second, but then that ended up like causing all the cities to crash because they were all floating, and then she made it so no one could use top tier magic anymore.

People will probably draw that comparison to your world.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's possible. I mean, like the whole world actually came about from D& D games. So we played D& D for like years. Like, this, this campaign, I think I have, I have some ridiculous amount of hours in like world 20, but I DMed multiple campaigns in this world.

And then that world became the foundation for like the streams and then the novels. And then, and then we're like, let's just make a TTRPG of it. So we have. Like all of it is like kind of the same interconnected world.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What I [00:06:00] really find interesting about what you're doing here or what we're doing or what arcs doing at the moment is right.

This really interesting part in terms of gaming media history where there's this huge market opportunity. Because you look at what you're doing, right? And like, for example, D& D, Pathfinder, stuff like that should own this market. But D& D has like, you know, made orcs, like orcs were racist, so we're gonna have them be like normal.

The Pathfinder guy said that he learned that like, JD Vance is like apparently like a super nerd and like into Magic the Gathering. And the guy who created Pathfinder or something thought that he might play his game. So he was like, well, this isn't a game for him or people like him. And I'm like, if you're just like killing like, like The huge part of the nerd audience, they've created this huge opportunity.

You and I look at video games in this there was this article in Wired this last year, 2024, the year that killed gaming. And then I like go and look at the charts and I was like, did people spend less in gaming in 2024? No, it went up. In fact, they spent double what they spent 10 years ago. So how did it kill gaming?

Oh, you just mean that all of the big players got wiped off the table in one year, [00:07:00] like, could there be a better year to go into things?

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy. Cause I remember when we were developing the game, we were like, The Dungeons and Dragons just blow themselves up, like, in the middle of work.

Just, like, all the, all the stuff that, like, they've been doing, and, like, there was, like, that like, wheelchair accessible dungeons. It just allows for that, kind of, takes you out of the fantasy and tries to, like, inject, like, like, Some real like people play games like Dungeons and Dragons, because you want to experience like, you know, something else, right?

Yeah, because sometimes life sucks. You want to get away from it, right? And it's like, they're trying to, like, re inject, like, the same things. And I think a lot of it is at least in my observation, it seems like there's a certain subset of people that have to play literally themselves. And like games and it's, it's so weird to me because,

Malcolm Collins: because their life is a power fantasy when you can force it.

No, I mean, I think that there's a [00:08:00] class of people that has learned certain hacks. I mean, what do we all want in life? But validation. And there's a certain like, like for other people to see us the way we see ourselves. And there's a certain class that has learned social hacks for us. forcing validation, but once you have fallen into a category where you can force other people to validate you in the real world, like it's very hard, I think, to break this way of seeing yourself within a game setting because there's no point for a power fantasy or anything like that.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Are you guys familiar with like Tumblr?

Malcolm Collins: Tumblr. Yes. I used to, I used to, I've Tumblr in action. I was obsessed with, but I was also like into Tumblr, like unironically as well. Because I love like nerdy subcultures. Like we've done some recent videos on stuff like the Omegaverse and stuff. Like that's how much I'm into like.

That's a hilarious one. Okay.

I want to hear more about Tumblr. Continue.

Leaflit Mitsuha: So like, it's kind of funny because I wasn't personally like into Tumblr other than just like kind of joking around. But my brother was so I [00:09:00] got to see, like, kind of all of this stuff kind of forming and like bubbling up to the top. Right. You know what I mean?

You saw, like, all the, all that stuff happening and you're like, yeah, this is crazy people on tumblr. Like, there's no way and then all of a sudden started to become, like, more and more mainstream. Like, wait a minute. What's going on here?

Malcolm Collins: It was like one of those like, pools that you hear about in like those, those stories about early life or it's like bubbling and like you hear about all the organic compounds and everything.

And now it's like dinosaurs. Yeah. Walking around like eating people. I didn't think that would turn into dinosaurs.

Leaflit Mitsuha: I remember distinctly like the time, like I know the exact moment I was like, I was like. Oh, what the hell is this? And it was when my brother got into an argument with someone and he comes out of it and he's like, how can they argue with me?

I'm you know, I'm gay and I'm a person of color. So how can they even, how can they argue with me? And I remember thinking like. What does that mean? Like, what [00:10:00] do you mean they can't argue with you? That doesn't make any sense, right? Like, that doesn't make your argument, like, automatically correct or automatically wrong.

You know? And it was so weird seeing, like, that kind of intersectionality just kind of like Sneak its way into like, you know,

Malcolm Collins: I agree, but I think it's so natural to human thinking. You know, I think a good games can really help you understand different time periods. And I'm, I'm playing through a game again right now, expeditions Rome, which I played before.

But it takes place in, in Rome and there's all this stuff around like the words you use for people or talking to people at different classes. And, and it just sounds like so much, Oh, you know, I'm of the Praetorian class. How dare he question anything I say? Like, and I think that people in human history always did this.

And if anything. The equality that we enjoyed growing up was a historic anathema. And I think that if, if anything, like society might be benefiting because the class that chose to assort their authority other others choose to be like inefficient and [00:11:00] witless. And is quickly being deposed. Mm-hmm

True. One of the people said to me, and I just can't believe that we're living through and it's so true that the, if you think about it, like yes, we lived through like, as we call the urban monocultures control of our society. Mm-hmm . You know, the past, I'd say like six, seven years maybe, maybe a little bit longer, but in terms of like a cultural force dominating the largest empire in the world at the time.

Mm-hmm . It's the shortest any has ever held power. That's true. The most astronomical margin ever.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's, it can't, the problem is it can't hold up. All it needs is a little bit of light. Once you actually see it and you understand what they're talking about, of course it doesn't hold up to anything.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, but we need to worry about this as well.

And it's one thing I always point about. Like you don't like all this complaint about woke right stuff, but I think people need to call it out. Like these people on the right who are like, now we've won. Now we need to like Matt Walsh recently. He did a thing saying that like guys who are into video games are like gay.

And then he said, [00:12:00] yeah, or like a feminine and then he was like in the guys, not that there's anything wrong with being gay. He meant that to mean like a feminine and less than masculine. And then there's, there's the other one that was like last year, he did one on like how guys who are into anime are all like pathetic.

And yeah, I remember that.

Leaflit Mitsuha: I remember that

Malcolm Collins: one. Yeah. Just need to be expelled. Like we need to, you know, push back or we're going to end up exactly where they were.

Leaflit Mitsuha: This is, I actually wanted. To make a video on this for the longest time about how one of my biggest worries coming out of this is just like the pendulum swinging way too hard.

The other side, the other way, because again, like, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not like, even though people might say I am, I'm, I don't really consider myself to be that far. Right. So I don't want to see the, the, the pendulum come back and swing and hurt a bunch of people that had nothing to do with any of this, you know?

Absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. But I would say that you're actually like watching your content. You're, you're pretty centrist, right? These days.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I wouldn't even say that you're like, you're to the left of the right. You're pretty [00:13:00] much like JD Vance. Oh, yeah.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's like, it's like the meme with Elon Musk. It's like, it's, it's like, you're, you're kind of there in the center and then things pull so far to the left that now you find yourself.

More on that side, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I think we're in a good place because I don't remember when the left was gaining power, like anybody saying like, Hey, are we going too far with this? Whereas I hear this sort of across the board and sort of my influencer friends now.

And I've seen very little willingness to budge actually, sorry, zero willingness to budge on stuff like the new rights.

Position on things like gay rights like absolutely nothing like the alt right. They're like, okay, and now you're gonna change your position on gay rights F**k. No, i'm not changing my position on gay rights. Like what what are you smoking? So hopefully we can maintain the position, but we'll see so hold on I want I want to do what I originally wanted to do Which was like do a study of your career And sort of what it felt like starting as a streamer because you didn't start with political intentions at all Yes, and how you moved the various controversies [00:14:00] how they moved you etc.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Okay, uh So, so the thing is, is a lot 1 sentiment that I, I've heard is like, oh, like, you know, now that trump 1, she's like this. But the thing is, I've always talked about these things. It's usually during, like, a late night session where I'm playing a different game and then we'll, we'll be talking about this stuff.

So I've always. Kind of talked about this stuff and always kind of held the same beliefs. It's, it really is kind of just coincidence because what happened was again, like I said, because I'm working on the game and I'm working on the novels, I didn't have time for YouTube. So, 2 of my, my mods, 1 of 1 of which is my producer approached me and they said, hey I want to learn how to edit videos.

So, like, can I can I run the channel because you're not using the channel that much? And I said, okay, sure. I, you know, fine. So, they basically take whatever I put up and then they take it. They edit it. They, they, they throw it up. They do all the thumbnails for me and then we split it. That's

Malcolm Collins: [00:15:00] that's the.

Pause on this before you go further because earlier you're like, I don't pay much attention to YouTube and I was like, you do daily, fully edited videos. Don't just throw this, I don't pay much attention. Now I'm learning it's one of your Discord. Okay, that makes sense.

Leaflit Mitsuha: I, I do, I do. Some, like, sometimes I'll do an edit on the video, but it's mostly like, it's mostly You know, my, my editor now, who's originally just one of, one of my mods from Twitch and and one of my producers that are kind of working on it and they're, they're, they're helping me out with it because I just, I just.

Because I'm, I'm taking care of so many other projects and, and also like we have like a company, like, like our company, like angel sword studios is like, we actually, like, we actually manage like another talent as well. Are we getting a new one? Like, like soon. Yeah, like, like, yeah, thank you. But it's, it's, it's again, it's like so much stuff that is really kind of a godsend that they were like, you know, you're not really using the YouTube channel.

And like, you know, you could [00:16:00] probably expand on that. Just talking about what you like talking about anyway. And plus I mean, my, my, my editors are, are, you know, they're kind of more politically aligned with me. So they're like, Oh, we want to see more of that stuff. So then they wanted to help create it.

And that

Malcolm Collins: explains so much. That also explains why you don't see yourself because, so I know you from YouTube only. And in YouTube, you are 100 percent of political commentators. The way that they chose to pull your clips. It's 100 percent political commentary.

Leaflit Mitsuha: I mean, we weren't doing that before too, right?

We were, we were already kind of making that kind of content before the, before the election and then the election hit and then it was like, there was just so much news, right? Like there's news every, every hour and I'm sure you guys know about it. Like as content creators in the same space, there's just like rapid fire news over and over and over again.

So there's always something to talk about.

So, if you are not a YouTube commentator, you will not understand the struggle of this. Simone and I really want to maintain a channel. Oh, by the way, if you're wondering why she's not talking much in [00:17:00] this video, it's because the kid's crying really loudly. She'll mention that at the end of the video and you'll be like, Oh, that's why she hasn't been talking.

But Simone and I really want our channel to Engage with philosophy, engage with religion, engage with science, engage with demographic trends, and engage with politics. And yet, so much is happening so quickly, it feels like we can only afford to engage in politics right now. It's like, okay, so for example, Yesterday we did a video on the USAID controversy.

That's huge, right? Like, that definitely needed a video. But today, what? I'm skipping doing a video on shutting down the U. S. Department of Education and the U. S. Department of

Consumer Protection. Like, that just doesn't even deserve an episode because just so much is happening so quick. We literally might just end up not doing an episode on that, which is wild.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so I want to keep going. You doing it with your mom, because we plan on doing this with our kids as they get older. Can you talk about how you got pulled into that?

Leaflit Mitsuha: Oh, yeah, sure. So, me and my mom have always played games together, like [00:18:00] MMOs, and like, we've always watched anime together. And as you guys know doing content creation, it's like such a busy job, like you barely have time to do anything. So it got to a point where I wasn't able to, I wasn't able to spend as much time with my mom as I wanted to.

Like we, again, we used to play games together all the time and it just became like, oh, I can't cause I have to work at the stream. I have to, you know, edit videos or, or whatnot. And then one day. I had a suggestion. I was like, what if you just stream with me? And so she was like, you know, I'll give it a try.

So we got her a little picture. She put it up there and she actually enjoyed it. So after that, I was like, okay, well, we'll just get you like, you know, your own, your own setup for it. And then like, we can scream together. We'll do a thing on Sunday. And so that's why we play every Sunday together. And sometimes she streams on her own now because she actually likes it herself now.

So

Malcolm Collins: yeah, that's awesome. Okay. Okay. And then talk about the early controversies that begin moving you potentially more politically.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Sure. So probably the biggest one was the discord [00:19:00] one, which I did a video on that one. Yeah. I did a video on that recently on the monkey one. Yeah. It's funny too.

Cause when I released that video, a bunch of people were saying like Oh, that was me. That was me. I was the person that like that they were getting mad at. And then you, you stepped in and he was like, that was crazy. And it's, it's so wild. Cause I didn't, it's crazy how much impact one person can have.

Like one person that just has bad intentions. Yeah. Okay. So I'll

Malcolm Collins: play you strip. So I'll do a quick summary of this and then I'll tell you a quick story. So the event she's talking about was essentially somebody that's during the BLM riots. With like they're acting like monkey like literally meaning not like like the black people or anything, but just like the rioters, you know Chimping out, right?

Like what, what, what does that word mean? Right. And you know, people attack the person, you defended them. I think courageously, I don't know if I would have taken that risk. And then you never, you never walked back from that position. And then like a crazy person decided to try to ruin your life and like got your Discord [00:20:00] taken down.

But like we have a lot of, do you know Razeeb Khan, by the way? He's a famous geneticist. Anyway, he used to work for the New York Times and now he does like a genetics blogs. He talks about well, the types of things you're not supposed to talk about in genetics. He's been on our show before.

He's done like he mostly talks about differences in ethnicities, but like down to like really granular levels like different castes in, in, in India and stuff like that. Anyway. So he yeah. He has this one crazy person where whenever he gets a new investor or whenever he's working at a new company, they will call the company.

So he always warns someone when they hire him, they go, you're going to get a call from Rebecca. Here's a script of most of what she's going to say. And this is just something he has to live with his entire life.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah. It's such a pain, like having to, having to deal with that, like.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, what's worse is for some of my friends.

So there's this thing called the rationality wiki. I don't know if you've heard of it They figured out how to do like really well in like SEO results

And so for a long time a lot of my friends could they would always come up first [00:21:00] in search results Even though it's just one by like one crazy former neo nazi Actual former neo nazi by the night way who's now like the same but like woke.

And so he just attacks all of these people and he gets it to come up very first, like all of the sins they've ever committed. Oh my goodness. And that would just like destroy your career. Like I'm so lucky Wikipedia article before that happened to me because now I can never be trounced by it.

But just like, wow. That's scary. Continue, continue. So this happens to you. How do you like. Internally, in terms of your, like, ideology respond to this event,

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's kind of rough because I'm not going to lie. I would be lying if I said that it didn't affect me. Of course, like, you know, you work so hard on on your content and building up your community and then, you know, seeing it kind of all just evaporate because of 1 person is kind of.

It was, it was distressing, but at the same time, it's like, I'm not going to let someone [00:22:00] say that. I'm not going to I'm not going to admit to something that I didn't do. Right. And they were trying to, they were trying to get me to say, like, oh, yeah, I, yeah, I'm sorry for being racist. I'm like, I'm not racist though.

So I'm like, I'm not going to say that. And it's, it's kind of,

it's so weird. Just like how. How it went and like, you know, they, they, they basically told me, Oh, you should go look into some you know, KKK and Nazi sites to find out like what, what racist terms are like, what are you talking about? It's like, how do you know, like, like what you can or can't say when the context doesn't matter.

Malcolm Collins: Right. It is. It is so interesting to me. And there's, there's a few examples of this that like are very, very confusing to me. So here's one example. And who knows if I get tarred and feathered for this, but it's the term tar baby. So people will say that tar baby is a racist term for black people. And I'm like, yes, it [00:23:00] is a racist.

It was for a brief period in like, like an American history of racist term for black people, but it hasn't been for a long time.

Huh. But the reason why I hold so much hatred to the people who want to remove the term from the lexicon is the term Tar Baby comes from the stories of Briar Rabbit, which was a Black, traditional African children's story that we captured in the American lexicon.

And is a truly African contribution to the sort of American history. Whenever somebody talks about being thrown in the briar patch or whenever somebody talks about a tar baby, they are referencing a traditional African. Songs and and and and and myths that people fought so hard to bring over on the slave ships The people fought so hard to give to their kids and give to their kids In the most brutal of conditions and after all that that that can just be erased by like a woke person Is [00:24:00] to me really really hurtful because somebody at one point decided to use that as a racist hurt

Leaflit Mitsuha: I mean, it's it's kind of funny because you saw the same thing with a lot of branding, right?

Like you've got the The chiefs, for instance, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, all of these things that were being kind of erased from you know, not even you know, with the case of was it the Redskins? They even, they even. Wanted that, right? The, the local tribe did want that.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Leaflit Mitsuha: So it's, it's kind of funny how it's, it's sort of just like a, a crusade.

That's not even for them.

Malcolm Collins: What are the, yeah, no. One of the craziest examples of this is when the BLM movement was like, we need to protect. Black culture and as such, we need to like d denormalize the nuclear family, like denormalize the idea of a husband and wife raising kids together. And I was like, did you know that in the 1970s black people had a one half the rate of unmarriage as white people in terms of kids, the kids born out of wedlock were at [00:25:00] one half the rate of white couples.

That this. Current idea that it's like somehow black culture to be unmarried. It's just a completely modern phenomenon and completely downstream of wokeism. And it's, it's messed up that now they're trying to like cauterize this change anyway.

Leaflit Mitsuha: And I mean, I mean, the, the fact of the matter is like, if you distill it down, it's a disservice to all of those communities.

Speaker 3: Like,

Leaflit Mitsuha: it doesn't do anyone anyone better to kind of promote, like, you know, that kind of that kind of behavior because it's it's not good for people, like, financially, spiritually, emotionally. Like it just it dehumanizes like everyone involved.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, okay So here's one that I haven't heard that much about and I am actually very interested about is your hogwarts controversy

Speaker 3: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: because it sounds like you you personally at least haven't really crossed the like trans skepticism rubicon yet and so you that that that puts you in a position where I had assumed that most of your audience Wouldn't be [00:26:00] particularly surprised Given the stuff that I hear you say You would watch something like a Hogwarts or say, like, I'm not going to boycott this, but apparently a significant portion of your audience was surprised by this, or at least a sliver enough to cause a hubbub was, was that what caused it?

Or was it like the VTuber community that caused it? Or like, how did this get started? And why was it seen as weird?

Leaflit Mitsuha: So like the, the there's in the VTuber community and just like kind of online on like the loud vocal minority of like gaming. There's a lot of people that you know, they, they, they have, they have interests and their narrative not being tampered with at all.

And you know, they, they kind of spread the whole J. K. Rowling is evil and she's selling these bad things. And I think it's. Sorry, I'm trying to formulate, like, how to say it. No,

Malcolm Collins: it's difficult. You're entering a verbal trap right now. Yeah,

Leaflit Mitsuha: yeah. I have laid down on the floor and said, Dance [00:27:00] for me, leaflet!

It's like, it's And the thing is, I really The funny thing is, is like, I have friends who are trans. And like, I have nothing against Against that, I draw, I draw a very strict line of like, when it comes to, to children because, you know, there's, I mean, there's, there's, that's a whole different thing. Right.

But just in terms of, of Hogwarts, I think it's just the, the vocal people, like, who just don't like JK Rowling. They just went out of their way to like, attack anyone that was that was into it. And there were particularly a lot of those types of individuals in the VTubing community because the VTubing community is like, kind of, honestly, it's like, kind of like a big hug box, so like, super positive vibes all the time and stuff, you know, so it's like, anyway people, people.

I think they got surprised because I didn't talk about this stuff as openly before. Around that time when Hogwarts came out. I, I ha I have a manager and he's like, maybe don't talk about this stuff. I was like, I [00:28:00] really wanna talk about, maybe don't talk about that stuff. And it's kind of like that.

But I, so I would talk about it like late at night, like, like late at night. I'd be doing like late night gaming. I, I play with this bounty hunting game and then I'll talk about it then like, different topics. Along those lines, but

Malcolm Collins: you know, one thing you've mentioned there that I, I often feel so we've had hope not hate, which is this UK thing.

They did this like undercover reporter, like in our organization for like a year plus, year plus trying to find us saying anything racist or bad or anything like that. Couldn't find anything, which, which I'm really thankful for. But like, we, you know, we've been numerous guardian pieces on us, everything.

So the news is always trying to get us. And the funniest thing is, is that like if you just sat down and listened to our actual content beginning to end, even just like three episodes, you would find so much more worse stuff than you've been able to find in all of your like dredging expeditions. Um, And it's like the best place to hide something is like deep in a stream.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah, like [00:29:00] late, late at night. Eight hours in, 12 hours in.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I gotta be honest. I think this no, but then somebody's going to cap you one time, you know? Oh, who is that person who I I felt kind of bad at because they were a streamer. Okay, so it was a twitch streamer who worked for Sweet Baby Inc. And it was a woman or something.

Do you remember when this happened and her stream got capped? Was it She had like Like 15 followers or something. And so she thought like nobody would possibly be capping her.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Oh, I know what you're talking about. It was, it was a VTuber, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it was a VTuber.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah, I, I, I remember what you're talking about.

They said a bunch of stuff and then like people found it, of course, because people were trying to dig up stuff on, on Sweet Baby Inc.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Damn. was like AI, what are they going to find me saying, I mean, my, my positions just get more extreme as I go on. So I don't, I don't think I'm like you, I think that like, I've been maybe moving more and you've been, have you?

Have you feel like you've been pretty politically stable or do you feel like you've been sort [00:30:00] of,

Leaflit Mitsuha: I mean, I, I, again, like I used to be kind of more libertarian. And I think. As, as I've gotten older, I've kind of found that the social fabric matters a lot more than I used to think. So I do, I do see a little chipping a little bit like over just from the ridiculousness.

Like, I don't want to deal with it. You know, it's annoying. It's, it's, it's annoying. It's just like people screaming at you all the time and like, who wants to deal with that? Right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It's funny. I'd actually say like, I used to be libertarian, but like, I'm not as libertarian anymore because you got people like JD Vance and I'm like, yeah, whatever, whatever he does is probably okay.

I don't know. Simone, you got to talk at all. You've been completely quiet. Why don't you talk about countryside stuff with her?

Speaker 4: Yeah. You moving to the suburbs. I had to

Malcolm Collins: force you

Speaker 4: 30 minutes straight and she just stopped. So your time is actually great, but yeah. So have you moved to the countryside?

Wait, wait. Yeah. Like, I mean, yeah. I actually moved from California

Leaflit Mitsuha: to, [00:31:00] yeah, it was funny when I first, when I first moved I first moved to Texas and my neighbors are like so where, where are you guys from? California. And they said, y'all keep Texas, Texas. Okay. I was like, don't worry.

That is so

Malcolm Collins: good. By the way, Simone grew up in San Francisco. Moved to Dallas before moving out here.

Speaker 4: Yeah. When I told everyone that I was going, I was in the San Francisco Bay Area and they freaked out when they realized I was moving, especially to Dallas. They're like, at least you can move to Austin.

Like they sort of thought Austin was like, well, at least they're liberal there. And they were just terrified. Like as if I, you know, was

Malcolm Collins: tell her your gun story. And by the way, wipe your teeth. They're covered in makeup. Very nerdy. I like it.

Speaker 3: No. Okay. So anyways,

Malcolm Collins: The gun story is so she moves to Texas and her friends from San Francisco are like, you are going to be shot.

Simone, you cannot move there. She goes, you know, they're like shooting people in the, they've [00:32:00] got guns everywhere. Simone had to like explain it was not like a public shooting rage and they, they did not believe her. They were terrified for her life.

Leaflit Mitsuha: You know, I, I had a, I have a similar story to that. Do you want to hear it?

Oh yeah, go,

Speaker 3: go, go.

Leaflit Mitsuha: So like, Man, it's kind of a sad story, but my, my grandpa he used to be super conservative, super conservative. And then what happened was as he, as he grew older, he ended up being in the care of like more liberal family members. And they cut him off of like Fox, they only forced him to watch CNN.

And it was like, like he would tell me, like, I just want to watch my Fox leaflet. I just want to watch Fox. They won't let me. And so like, it was kind of like, then it was kind of weird. It's really sad. And then I remember just, they just slowly, like they would, they would tell him like, like, like for instance, he was going to vote for Trump in I think 20, 20, 16, he was going to vote for Trump and they basically told him like.

If you vote for Trump, we're going to lose our job and all of our money [00:33:00] and all of our livelihood. And so, like, he got guilted into voting for Hillary. And he told me, like, this is like a big regret. Like, I regret it. I didn't want to vote for her, but like, I did. And so this kept going. It kept going on and on.

And the last conversation I had with him before he passed was he goes, he goes, Leaflet, do you still carry a gun? And I was like, yeah, I carry a gun all the time. And he's like stop carrying a gun Because when the police find out you're asian, they will shoot you and I was like who told you that? What's going on?

It was so there's the last conversation I ever had to my grandpa.

Speaker 3: That's so

Malcolm Collins: sad Right. Yeah weird that that does make me very angry at I don't want to say But like the wider But I, I also, oh, by the way, just, just for audience who, like, doesn't know, it's, it's for safety because of, like, the weirdos on VTubers and stuff like that, and, like, you, you, you even, like, stream with a gun, from what I remember.[00:34:00]

Leaflit Mitsuha: Oh, yeah, I've, I've got, I've got lots. I, I, I just like guns, I have a lot of them. But I always carry a gun for protection.

Speaker 4: That is awesome. What makes you decide to move? Like awake. I mean, cause most people get so used to California, like the idea of leaving seems incomprehensible.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah, obviously a

Speaker 4: lot of other things changed either politically, but like, why did you decide to take the leap?

Leaflit Mitsuha: So it was, it was really hard because California has a lot of nice things, you know, a lot of bad things, but there's also a lot of family there. But what happened was. After COVID happened and Gavin Newsom, he, he did a lot of things like a lot of things where he had rules for other people. But not for himself and he just did general, like the general way that he handled COVID.

And so what happened was he got recalled and like Larry Elder went up against him and me and my mom were like, Oh, finally, like, finally, like, finally, like someone's going to kick this guy out because he sucks. [00:35:00] Right. And they voted to keep him in and my mom, like she said. Leaflet. This place is cooked.

Like, we're, we need to get out of here. This is, this is so bad. Like, if he can, if he can win after everything that happened, he can never lose. So, so we're like, okay. And then, so, you know, immediately, like, literally the next month, we started looking for houses. We're just, we're just out of here.

Malcolm Collins: If it makes you feel any better about him, one thing I'm really excited about for this next election cycle, cause you know, everyone thought that he was going to be like the guy to be the next presidential candidate.

I hadn't, I hadn't put this together yet. You know, and he had the Olympic games happening in LA right before that. Like, okay, f*****g half the city has burned down. Trump's not going to contribute any federal dollars to this, this Olympic cycle. The Olympics has become more and more corrupt every year.

Like this is going to be the disaster of disastrous Olympics.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yes, it

Malcolm Collins: will be

Leaflit Mitsuha: entertaining.

Malcolm Collins: I am, I am here for it. I've got my [00:36:00] binoculars. I want to see the content goldmine.

And it's gonna have a big trans controversy right in the middle of it because Trump has recently announced that he plans to deny visas to the Olympic athletes that are going by a different gender and of course Gavin Newsom's gonna put his, his D on the table on the other side of this issue and it is going to be a hilarious fight.

Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. Where do you think the future of America is? Like, where do you see your friends and colleagues and other contacts building their lives?

If not, because it used to just be like all cool people would Typically gravitate to like LA, San Francisco, New York, maybe Boston. Are you seeing a shift in that among people that you hang out with and talk with a lot? Is it more dispersed now? Yeah. Well,

Leaflit Mitsuha: the problem is, is a lot of these big [00:37:00] cities are just not affordable.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's, it's, it's impossible. And, and I keep. Telling a lot of people that live in these big cities. It's like, you're not really out of the tutorial of life until you own property because that's how they keep. That's how, like, as long as you're paying rent, you're literally just losing money every month and it's just not affordable to actually, like, own a place a million dollars.

Malcolm Collins: It's not even the right career path anymore. So if you're in like the entertainment space, for example I think we especially saw it after this election cycle is like, I used to want to be like a newscaster, right? Like on TV or something. And now it's like, why the, what I want to be that like they get like lower ratings than like, we did a thing recently and like we were worth, I think like during the election cycle in terms of view time each of us or our podcast alone, so, so together 14 New York times, full time Stafford.

Like, nobody watches like, like the mainstream news anymore. And, and because of that, [00:38:00] like, if you're on this pathway to become like a, an influencer or like a thought leader, and one of the things I've realized by talking to you is there's like these bubbles of thought leaders, like you're in the bubble of thought leaders that previously would have been actresses, I think, or voice actresses.

No, no, I mean like you're an entertainer, entertainer, right? Like, and like we're in the space that like, and you end up knowing everyone in that space really quickly. Like, and like with us, like we know, like, I, I think it's so weird that like, we're like friends with people like Curtis Yarvin and stuff like that.

And I'm like, it's weird, but like we're in the intellectual, intellectual space. And the question is, is, you know, can, can we continue to build from here? I don't know. It's difficult. Like I know some friends in the space who have built like really sustainable incomes. But outside of this, I think the real way to do this is to build sort of, I guess I'd call it like peerage networks and then release products that people was in our industry want whether it's games like the stuff that, because one of the things I was thinking about, like my game releases, I'm like, how am I going to get this?

[00:39:00] game in front of people, everything like that. And I'm like, Oh, all I need to do is piss off the games media. Then reach out to my friends. Like I've, I've been on side scrollers a bunch, you know, I have like no grums, like I can get them to cover this stuff and I'm sure you're the same way, right? Like, and I'm like, Oh s**t, like that's everything you need to do to like get in front of an audience these days.

Now I just need to make a good product.

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's, it's crazy just how things have shifted so hard. Like before only certain, certain people, certain. Like, larger companies had, like, the keys to all of the, you know, all of the kingdoms and, like, now it's kind of being more distributed amongst, like, you know, individuals, which is, which is great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but also the weirdly, like, isolated social circles has also been really weird. I don't know if you've bumped into this where, like, you see somebody who produces content that in some way is similar to you, but they're, like, part of a social circle that, like, you have never engaged with?

Leaflit Mitsuha: Well, it's kinda, that's a tough one for me because I'm pretty anti social, so I can't, I don't really, I don't really I'm notoriously bad at, like, collabing and, kind [00:40:00] of trying to reach out to people to, like, kind of, like, do things together. I'm, I'm just bad at it because I'm, I'm kind of, I just, I'm so, I'm sort of a person that kind of just likes to be alone and play games. So, it's like, I, I, I'm nervous around people very easily.

Malcolm Collins: I'm the same way. I'm the same way.

You know, I mean, one of the things that we actually constantly talk about on our channel, is trying to normalize like we sort of talked about like extreme levels of introversion in our society. We've almost treated it like it's a condition or something to overcome. And the only reason that like, I'm good at socializing because I treat it like a job.

Like I would never, I look, I live on a farm with my wife and we leave like almost never. And most of my friendships are parasocial. Like. I'm like, I have a lot of friends. No, it's actually a really interesting thing. And I don't know if this has happened to you or like, I have a lot of friends where like, I talk to them once every three months or so, but like they watch my content and I watch their content.

And so I'm like, that's all I need. It's a

Leaflit Mitsuha: perfect world. So it's like, you're kind of like, interacting with, with, with people, but kind of at your own [00:41:00] pace. Right.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's way more efficient. Everyone gets a ton more done. People are spending less time and money and yet they still have deep relationships.

And they, they often know each other. Like what we're seeing more and more, whether or not someone has a following is that there's a lot of parasocial stuff going on and often like while they're cleaning or working or other stuff, so it's not, this isn't time that's competing with like their few time, like hours off of work, for example and then occasionally they'll like go to a conference or a retreat or travel to a city and meet up with these people in person

Speaker 3: so they

Speaker 4: still get that.

In person contact. But you get most of the benefits of friendship. This is not a replacement for what community used to be, where like, you just lived and depended on people really closely. But in terms of like, loose friend networks, I think this is a way more efficient way to do it, and it's great.

Malcolm Collins: Final question then for her. Yeah. [00:42:00] So I want to focus on the question of, because I actually don't know this, you're the only streamer, like I know, like, all the other people we know are like YouTubers or sub stackers or stuff like that. Like, what is the streaming audience like when contrasted with the YouTube audience in terms of how you're producing content?

Leaflit Mitsuha: It's it's, it's a little bit. So. I think that the difference is it's more, there's a lot more interaction, right? People, people come to streams. I think this is really what it is. There's a lot of people come to streams to like spend time with someone, like feel like you're hanging out with people,

Speaker 3: Because it's,

Leaflit Mitsuha: because it's live.

Right. And like, people will comment and then you'll respond in real time. So it's like, it's kind of like you're hanging out in the same room with, with people and, and even like when, you know, you hear this a lot, like, oh, wow, you're just watching someone play games. It's, it's, it's more like you're playing games with your friends.

Speaker 3: That's kind

Leaflit Mitsuha: of like the, the, the kind of feeling behind it. It's like, [00:43:00] you know, you're, you're, you're chilling on the couch and you're playing, you know, Sonic the Hedgehog and your friends are watching you play. It's kind of like that, that vibe to it.

Malcolm Collins: So when you're putting something together how do you, I don't know how to put it, but like perfectly masturbate this desire or instinct, right?

Like, what are you thinking when you're doing that?

Leaflit Mitsuha: Well, for me, it's more like, I just, I try to pick games that people like, and then I try to just respond to them when they, when people talk. Like you, you have to always one eye on your chat. So it's like, it's like sometimes it's, it's, I was like talking about this, like.

Well, I'm streaming. I actually suck more at games because I'm, I'm constantly distracted, like trying to like, look for a conversation hook to like, talk about. Right. So, like, if somebody says something, it's like, oh, that's something I can talk about. And then, like, you clip into that and then you can have a conversation with everyone in chat.

Malcolm Collins: No, I actually, I find this really interesting because I think our audience as well will not know anyone like you, like you [00:44:00] represent a side of, I think this cultural shift that is aligned with a lot of our experiences, but completely out of anything that they have done.

Like, I would doubt very many of our fans, like they might like your YouTube channel, but I doubt you're going to get any. Like twitch subscribers from this you know, they're mostly like, I like, I know our fans. Like they mostly are like McKinsey. So they're like venture capitalists or they like work at McKinsey or they're like a different

Leaflit Mitsuha: crowd.

It's like, it's like a different different, it's streaming is, is it's a different audience than, than YouTube videos. And the thing is, it's like, I consume both, right? Like I'll, I'll sometimes I'm actually to tell you the truth. I, yeah. I actually don't watch that many streams. , I watch mostly YouTube.

I'm mostly like a YouTube person myself. But, but yeah, I mean, I get it. And it's a completely different audience.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm . Yeah. Oh, okay. Awesome. I love it. It was great talking to you. And I'm gonna stop, stop recording you

Leaflit Mitsuha: all

Malcolm Collins: and oh, wait, no. What am I saying? Okay. What's the name of the [00:45:00] game that people need to go to?

What's, yeah.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Game is, angel's Sword RPG Lyrian Chronicles is the name of it and you can find that at rpg. angelssword, like angels, but like possessive, angelssword. com. And it's free to play, anyone can play it, and updates every two to three weeks.

Wait, how do you monetize this? Patreon.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, okay. Lovely. What a great way to monetize like a D& D type thing.

Leaflit Mitsuha: Yeah, it's like people can support if they want. I mean, I mean, you know, it's just, it's just books. Like people don't always have the money to, to, to buy the books. So it's kind of like, we want everyone to be able to play.

So

Malcolm Collins: that's what we want. Really awesome. Okay, great. Okay.

Leaflit Mitsuha: All

Malcolm Collins: right. Thank you.

In this in-depth episode, we analyze a video of the 'Doge' meeting with the USAID team. The discussion tackles the misuse of funds, with millions allocated for controversial programs like promoting LGBT rights and atheism in countries with opposing cultures, and even alleged inefficiencies and cases of funds being diverted to terrorist organizations. The episode delves into the broader implications of USAID's spending, and examines arguments from both sides of the debate. We also explore the impact of these spending practices on U.S. relations with other countries, and the potential cultural and diplomatic fallout. Tune in for a thorough breakdown of how USAID's budget is being used, or misused, and what it could mean for the future of U.S. foreign aid.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): [00:00:00] We found a video of the Doge meeting with USAID's team.

Speaker: Give us a little more information surrounding the deficits that you're running this year.

Speaker 2: Ooh, gosh. We don't really like to talk about money. We find it a little gauche.

Speaker 3: This is a budget meeting.

Speaker 2: Well, most of our files are in these boxes if you really want to take a look at how much

Speaker: that we've spent.

Why don't we just dig in and see what we're up against?

Speaker 2: Yes, and thank you. We really appreciate your help.

Speaker: Are you tipping me?

Speaker 2: Is that a hundred? Euros?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be with you here today. We have talked about the USAID controversy, but I hadn't had a time to do the deep dive into both sides of the argument before this into the specifics because you see a lot of crazy numbers being thrown out there.

And honestly, if you've just been watching white wing media, some of these numbers have inaccuracies or misconceptions in the way they're presented. Others, when you dig into them, are even crazier than you [00:01:00] thought they were on a surface level.

Simone Collins: Okay, because, yeah, my default here as a listener is Okay, everything I'm hearing is a little exaggerated.

It's not exactly that bad, but it's bad. And you're saying that actually, some of it's even worse? Some of it's dramatically worse, some of it's

Malcolm Collins: dramatically less bad.

Okay.

And, and if I'm gonna start with just one that's dramatically less bad. Okay, yes. It's a story about the U. S. Government funding media organizations like the 4 million to the New York Times, the 8 million to Politico.

If you look at this there was a few sort of misconceptions that are bundled in the way this is presented. It's presented as if this is only coming from USAID, which actually isn't true. , the money that came from USAID, for example, last year for Politico was 25, 000. Now, when I hear 25, 000 and I hear this is for the special subscription.

Keep in mind, this isn't for like the public subscription, like premium business

Simone Collins: subscription with like

Malcolm Collins: analysts. Similar to what you would get was like God, what was that report that I used to read?

Simone Collins: They had like, I think many people who went [00:02:00] to

Malcolm Collins: business schools used to work for them.

I was thinking of the Stratford report, which costs like a thousand dollars a year depending on what subscription you're using.

But they're like

Simone Collins: anything I'm thinking about Bloomberg subscriptions and Bloomberg terminals at business schools that I went to, and those were like, really expensive.

It was such a big deal to have a Bloomberg. It's

Malcolm Collins: a waste of government money, but I do not think that they were explicitly paying for story. It was premium

Simone Collins: subscription. So they were supporting the organizations though.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. We weren't using the full. They could definitely go back and renegotiate, but also the, the, for example, the numbers cited like the 8 million were in the one year, right?

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: Another part of the story that I've seen reported in a few places that is just a complete fabrication based on a manipulated video Uh is that some celebrities were paid by USAID to go to the Ukraine To attempt to improve the US public's opinion of Zelensky That did not happen. Those celebrities went on their own money or were using UN money

Malcolm Collins: So this is me saying some of this stuff [00:03:00] is less bad than we thought it was. Others where they will say something like the 8, the well, we'll get to that later. Actually, I'm not going to get to any of that. The first thing I actually wanted to go into was, was two points in this one. I want to read an article about the way the left is framing this and the way the left is freaking out about this that I think was written about by the woman who did that freak out about us.

Just yesterday for salon she published to her like private blue sky in an unsearchable way. She does these like images. So they're really hard to find. Cause after I saw this the first time it took me forever to find it again. But the second, and I really, I want to get ahead of this is the argument.

for USAID. Because I think the argument for USAID, before we get into all the ridiculousness, just to steel man it, is on its face a really, really bad argument.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: why? So the pragmatic argument for USAID is that, look, you've got China doing soft power in places like Africa. Africa is where the majority of the USAID money was going.

Keep in mind this is [00:04:00] 50 billion a year that they're getting. And when people are like, Oh, Elon's like an unelected person. Well, these people are, I didn't vote for this stuff that USAID is doing. And we'll get to it. It's crazy. It's crazy. But they're like, this is building us good relations with Africa to help fight China.

Right. And I'm like. No, it's not. Are you out of your mind? China is going in getting influential government officials. You can interview people on the ground. We've been in secret meetings where we talk with government officials who have like gotten reports from what's happening in Africa. Africa does not trust the U.

S. They do not like when people just walk into the community or like I got the shots. Just take the shots. Stop asking questions. There is not a belief that these organizations are doing well by them. They're just attempting to force things on them. And you'll see with all this like LGBT stuff, all this promoting atheism.

Yes, they literally tried to promote atheism in a non atheist country. This is pissing off the local people. This is not endearing us to these local people. Maybe in [00:05:00] the past USAID had some things where they were like helping our relations with people, but not today.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's funny how my impression overwhelmingly, especially of U.

S. based aid work in Africa, for example, is just blanket suspicion of it, conspiracy theories. You're trying to measure us. You're trying to sterilize us. You're trying to poison us. I, yeah, and that's the thing. It's like, I imagine that there is actually a lot of like measurement and research being done on populations in these areas.

So I mean, like, yeah, I've, I've never thought of it is, is getting us ahead. I always thought of it as making maybe some positive difference, but in a New York Times op ed that I just read of the former head of USAID under the Biden administration. She only described one program in it in the entire article that saved lives, and the rest of it was about this argument, this, this thesis that if you do nice things to other [00:06:00] countries, they're more likely to be compliant when you need to put peacekeepers on the ground or something similar.

This is like if

Malcolm Collins: you put wokeness in gamers video games, gamers are gonna like you more. No, they'll hate you. They will declare a fatwa on you and everything you have ever stood for. And then in the article, she complains, as you mentioned, and she's like, and a hundred people have died in the last few years, U.

S. aid workers. No,

Simone Collins: no, no, I think in total, but This should be a unanimously celebrated organization. If they're being killed, either there's very terrible mismanagement, or they're in areas where people are very hostile toward them. And if people who are receiving aid from you are so threatened by you that they will end up killing you, You're clearly not you doing your job like get out.

Yeah, this the mission is failing. This is not working. It's not They even even if they're trying to deliver life saving malaria treatment or HIV treatment [00:07:00] The people in the area think you're trying to poison them. You really just shouldn't be there like Your money is going is like point one percent effective when some other organization When China's out

Malcolm Collins: there building bridges for them, and building ports for them, and building something Well, and there are

Simone Collins: ways to deliver, like, HIV medication, but when, when you are a very mistrusted entity, you shouldn't be the one to deliver it, you know what I mean?

And what's

Malcolm Collins: worse about this is USAID worked separately and did not have ties to the State Department, so they would frequently do things specifically designed to undermine the State Department's agenda. If they felt that the State Department's agenda did not align with whatever they were attempting to push.

Simone Collins: Oh, wait. So not even like, like friendly fire ships crossing in the night, like not realizing that they were undermining their work, but actively undermining their work? Actively because they believe that their work was to

Malcolm Collins: push, well, a woke worldview, which we'll get into in just a second. Oh my gosh. But more than this, I want to start with the Democrat freak out [00:08:00] against this because I love this article because I think it helps get in their mind space.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, so she goes must goal is to remake America in his own petty, selfish image. There are many reasons why musk is using us aid as a test case to see if he can appoint himself as dictator without pushback from Congress as an apple bomb says. Foreign aid isn't popular with voters, most of whom don't understand it, or maybe they do and they just don't like it, but okay, continue.

So it's low hanging fruit politically. If Musk and the MAGA forces get away with this, they'll rapidly expand, curtailing or shutting down more popular programs, such as funding for healthcare services or food assistance. Yay!

Speaker 24: Ding dong! It's America, motherfucker.

Malcolm Collins: Here I have the little flags in the background, but continue, continue. But I also think that there is a psychological angle to Musk's eagerness to demonize USAID.

He loathes a reminder that, contrary to his philosophy, good people do exist, and not [00:09:00] everyone acts solely out of self interest. Musk has long treated altruism as fiction. He seems to hold the view that people never do good things for good reasons, only because they wish to exploit others. I think often of how Musk, so blah, blah, blah, blah here, but what I love about this is a complete inability to understand that these people working at USAID who are using other people's money to promote their own agenda.

Are not philanthropists.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, that you, they have essentially stolen 50 billion a year. Not just because when you say U. S. taxpayer, it hides that this is coming from the U. S. government not helping people after floods. This is coming from the current situation we have in California right now. This is money that could have been spent on helping.

U. S. Citizens who do not have the cash right now in the programs that they need to save lives. And it's being spent [00:10:00] with literally no hope of advancing any American agenda. This is 100 percent like the idea that Musk is mad that these people are do gooders. These people are not do gooders. If I Go up and steal money from somebody because these are unelected officials, right?

Steal money from somebody use it where I take let's say 90 of it and I use it to promote my religion because that's what this is for a lot of These people most americans don't agree with this and then I pocket the other 10 I'm not a here. I just pocketed 10 of the money and then use the rest to promote my weird cult.

Simone Collins: Yeah, not good

Malcolm Collins: But people can say oh well this isn't this, this, this isn't about promoting my, my weird cult. So, oh, oh, by the way, a meme here that I need to share with the public that I love with Because they keep thinking I've been going on with these leftist sites. That the right is panicking about what Trump's doing now, that we don't love [00:11:00] this.

And the meme was, and this was posted on Our Idiocracy, so they thought that like, they had earned the right to

do this.

With the guy saying, Feeling buyer's remorse for MAGA? Don't blame us, MAGA. We tried to warn you, MAGA. Every MAGA now, and it's the guy from office the office saying, I really couldn't be happier.

And then under it somebody had reposted this quiz in the history of getting what I voted for. I have never gotten so much of exactly what I voted for. More than in the past. More than I've gotten in the past two weeks. Yes, I voted for all of this. Every tariff, every deportation, every crime bureaucrat, every grant cancelled, all of it.

And Asmogold did a great piece on this where he had that woman who was running all of this, right? And he was like, I am so glad that you are sad about this because she goes out there and she's like, Oh, people don't understand. They act like we're woke extremists. And it's so sad that people are losing their jobs because the general public just doesn't [00:12:00] understand what we did.

And so I want to go into what they did. And I also want to go into the counter arguments to some of these. But let's just broadly go over the stats that I was more able to verify. And we'll get to the ones where I think that there is some question in this, okay?

Okay.

The funds included 7. 9 million to teach Sri Lankan journalists how to avoid gender binary language.

7. 9 million. Now I will note here and we'll get into this program more because this is one where I had some questions. That was one thing that a program did that did a few things. Okay. Okay. So it wasn't exactly that, but we'll get into it. It is still pretty bad. 2 million for sex changes and LGBT activism in Guatemala.

Back check. This couldn't find anything saying that this wasn't what they were doing. My guess is that some of it at least went to sex changes, but rest of it was probably to normalize stuff. 1. 1 million to an Armenian LGBT group, 1. 5 million to promote LGBT advocacy in Jamaica. Now, by the way, do you think that Jamaica, if you know, like your average Jamaican, [00:13:00] that they like the U.

S. more because we are paying to support LGBT advocacy in their country? Do you think your average Armenian is more positively disposed to the United States because we're paying to promote this religion was in their country? No, this is not helping

Simone Collins: diplomacy wise. Yeah. This is like, wait, you are actively trying to manipulate and undermine my culture.

What are you doing?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Why do they not trust you? When then you come with the shots for their kids and you say, trust me, this will help. I wouldn't trust you either. People. We don't trust you in the United States anymore. Okay. 2 million to promote LGBT equality through entrepreneurship in Latin America.

3. 9 million for LGBT causes in the Western Balkans. Again, not a place that's likely to be positively disposed to this. 3. 9 million. 5. 5 million for LGBT activism in Uganda. I guarantee you the people of Uganda are not happy about that. You did not make any friends by doing that. 6 million for advancing LGBT issues in [00:14:00] priority countries around the world with 6.

3 million for men who have sex with men in Africa. I'm assuming that that was probably an AIDS organization there.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Apart from this, 25 million to Deloitte. So just like Accountant advisor type people to promote green transportation in Georgia,

Simone Collins: in Georgia, okay,

Malcolm Collins: in Georgia, 6 million to transform digital spaces to reflect feminist democratic principles.

Simone Collins: Feminist democratic

Malcolm Collins: million dollars to transform public spaces, probably for art projects is my guess here in digital space. Sorry, digital spaces. So this is what we're going to like online. Feminist Frequency type stuff. Now Feminist Frequency, there's been a misleading picture going around. They didn't get money from the government, they got money from somebody else.

But yeah, terrible, terrible people, Feminist Frequency. 1. 3 million, this one I actually don't Oh, yeah, this is better. To Arab and Jewish photographers These are for like, don't hate the [00:15:00] Jews, don't hate the Arabs campaigns you know, those sorts of things. Or it's probably hate the Jews, the Arabs are awesome campaigns.

You know how this always goes with these people. And 8. 3 million from USAID Education, Equity, and Inclusion. They also funded a 4. 5 million comp to combat quote unquote disinformation in Kazakhstan. You know what that means? Fight conservative value systems. Hold on. That's not all. That's just what the Trump administration put out there.

And we're going to get into like counters to all of these 14 million in cash vouchers for migrants at the Southern border through the state department. That's one. We're going to double.

Simone Collins: Oh, Yeah, we've heard a lot about those, like, leading up to the election. People were alarmed about these, like, debit cards being given to people.

Malcolm Collins: This is one of the ones that gets worse as you dig into it. Okay. 3. 2 million to help Tunisian migrants readjust to life in Tunisia under deportation. Turns out they were being sold into slavery. So that was fun. You know, not awesome. 2. You can tell I've been watching too much Nuxenor today where I'm doing his voice accidentally.

He is my favorite spectral [00:16:00] Jew. Uh, He's got a little thing there. All right. So, 2. 5 million. to build electric vehicle charging stations in Vietnam's largest cities. Now, this is not stuff that's endearing these people to us. This isn't building infrastructure that helps these countries. This is about promoting the woke religion, which sees like environmentalism and LGBT ism as like its core belief, even when it doesn't make sense or when it's not practical within a region or when there's no Cars there, for example, that run on these systems.

Around half a million dollars to help Indonesian coffee companies become more climate and gender friendly.

Simone Collins: More gender friendly? Coffee companies?

Malcolm Collins: Yes, coffee companies in Indonesia.

Simone Collins: Okay, sorry, good. Yeah, there are too many questions. 3.

Malcolm Collins: 8 million to an organization called Being LGBTQ in the Caribbean.

1. 5 million to promote job opportunities for LGBTQ individuals in Serbia. And keep in mind, this is money that could have been saving lives in the United States. You know, how many little kids [00:17:00] died? How many people are still homeless after floods or fires? Because we had unelected officials blowing this money, and now they're up in arms about, oh my god, I lost my job after this grift.

Simone Collins: One of the listeners of this podcast pointed out to me, This just welcome to the corporate world. People are fired in the corporate world at any point for any reason How could I

Malcolm Collins: be fired for doing something that angers more than half of the country?

Simone Collins: Yeah, whereas like you can you can make one person angry in the corporate world.

You can have one bad You know, mistake that you make, and you're gone, and these people are shocked, shocked. And undermining America's

Malcolm Collins: interests. Your job was to help America's interests, not undermine America's interests. If you are somebody in the department, and you're like, well, my side of the department wasn't doing this, well, surely you knew that stuff like this might be happening.

Why didn't you do an investigation? Why weren't you the whistleblower? Why did Musk have to come in and handle all of this? And the heroicism of Musk and his teams. [00:18:00] The Must Twins, they went to these offices, the guys at the front offices say we're gonna arrest you, we're not gonna let you in the buildings.

And they got like the little kids, the little kids! Must wasn't even there this day. They're 20 year olds, come on. They're not me in the building, you a holes. If you saw our video, these guys are like super geniuses you know, like deciphering scrolls using like AI that were like Burt and Pompeii.

Absolute super geniuses. I feel so bad for them. They're getting called murderers. See our other video on this. Yeah. One

Simone Collins: actually resigned after accusations of historical social media posts that were racist. And JD Vans is trying to say like, no, come back. Like, no, you shouldn't be forced to resign based on dumb stuff.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Malcolm Collins: People change, you know, if he's not actively a racist, whatever. Right. Like how do you convince anyone to ever not be a racist? If the moment they are at any point of racist for the next 50 years, like, like, like Nick Foster or whatever. Oh, and if you're trying to fire a 20

Simone Collins: year old for something they said as a teen online, that's like an

Malcolm Collins: early teen.

Yeah. I feel like [00:19:00] you'd say edgy things. There should be a social

Simone Collins: norm where anything you post before age 25. So these

Malcolm Collins: teens are trying to get in the building and they had to threaten. To bring in the marshals because the guards of the building wouldn't let them in. And then they get in the building, everyone's being hostile to them, basically spitting on them everywhere they go, basically bullying them.

They, they had to have guards go in and force some people to resign because they were being so mean to these little kids. The little super geniuses that you've seen from other videos but I want to keep going here 16. 5, 000 to foster a quote, united and equal queer feminist discourse in Albanian society.

Oh, I'm sure that earned us a lot of friends in Albanian society.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: 8, 000 to promote DEI among LGBT groups in Cyprus. Around half a million to promote the expansion of atheism in Nepal. That's one we're going to double click on, because that one was effing insane. Well, yeah, so this, this, this

Simone Collins: So many of these efforts Aren't just antagonistic to the countries being targeted, but [00:20:00] don't, they're not representative of the culture of a huge swath of Americans.

It's only representative of the culture of Islam. It's just really screwed up though. Like, it'd be one thing if we were like A woke caliphate, you know, we're like, we all agreed, like, this was all of us. But it's not even all

Malcolm Collins: we were a woke caliphate. They thought everyone who wasn't woke is, like, a deserving underclass.

They are the deplorables. They are the, the horrifying individuals. Like, the woman, when she wrote the piece on us yesterday, she's like, if you saw them, you know, they're skinny, they're attractive, they're educated. She That they're MAGA. And it's like, what do you mean you never guessed that they're MAGA?

You mean we look like normal people and we don't have horns growing out of our heads? Like, you clearly think of MAGA as like, inhuman in your mind. You are horrified that somebody who's educated ends up in prison. Hey. Let's get to Maga ing. But okay. So, 1 million to boost French speaking LGBT groups in West and Central Africa.

Again, that's going to make these places hate us. And that isn't what your average [00:21:00] American wants. Like you cannot argue this is this helped American interest at all. If you didn't want to spread the cult. Your money shouldn't have been going to this. This organization needs to be shut down. Asmat said, it's not an apple with a worm in it.

It's a ball of worms. Yeah. All right. Let's double click on some of these because I thought they were interesting here. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So the 47, 000 for the transgender opera in Columbia, because this is one that's been going around a lot. Was it

Simone Collins: good?

Malcolm Collins: Or was it,

Simone Collins: wait, what was like the review in the IT crowd?

Like,

Malcolm Collins: so it was an opera about a trans person living in like rural New York's like life. It was done three times, was in an opera house. It's not like they built an opera house or anything, but not that you could for 47, 000. And it turns out that less than the money than we thought went to it, 25, 000 that went to it was from USAID, 22, 000 that went to it was not funded by the federal government.

But was funded by the nonpartisan, well, not nonpartisan, obviously Albertan Journalism Institute. And what it was, quote [00:22:00] unquote, really going to was funding the department that then ended up hosting this stuff. When they gave the money to the department, they said that they're giving the money to quote expand and strengthen the relationship between the people and the government of the United States and the citizens of the rest of the world.

So basically they just gave them a blank check to do whatever they want. They knew these people were woke. They did woke s**t. So, people are like, oh, this isn't as bad. Well, that's pretty bad because that's a blank check if I've ever heard of one. And they knew from the past behavior of this department what the department was going to do, which was host trans operas.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, no one, no one goes to the opera anymore, either. Like, you're not going to change minds with the opera. I'm going to go, no. And now I'm just picturing the, Was it South Park? Where it was like, AIDS, AIDS, AIDS. Yeah. Everybody has AIDS. That's

Malcolm Collins: not South Park, you're thinking of Team America, world building.

Team

Simone Collins: America, that's it.

Speaker 7: So this is the end of our story. And everyone is dead from AIDS. It took from me my best friend. [00:23:00] My only true pal. My only bright star. He died of AIDS! Well, I'm gonna march on Washington! Lead the fight and charge the brigades There's a hero inside of all of us I'll make them see everyone has AIDS

Speaker 8: the pump has got it and so do you AIDS! AIDS! AIDS! AIDS! And we call everybody we got quilting to do AIDS!

AIDS! AIDS! AIDS! We're gonna bring Barricades. Everyone has it.

Simone Collins: Oh, yes. They're basically

Malcolm Collins: hosting those all over. But they, they did do some yeah, here's some small money donations that got people freaked out. But I, I, I still think like, this could have gone to save lives. Like, why are you spending this in other countries to make people hate us?

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, anyone who is like remotely familiar with the EA community knows that a very small dollar amount can save a significant number of lives through like, anti malarial nets, things like that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so 32, 000, well, anti malarial nets all ended up clogging the streams because people didn't use them to fish and [00:24:00] they turned out to be mostly a net negative.

It looks like they were in the communities overall. A lot of people refused to believe this because they are still bought into the EA religion. But from my understanding that on the net now, malarial nets were a net negative in the communities that they were handed on it. Sorry didn't think this through.

But anyway. 32, 000 for a transgender comic book in Peru. A lot of people, that one, that one appears to be legit with a comic book promoting trans ideology. 20, 600 for a drag show in Ecuador. That seems about what a drag show would cost to put on. No, no, no, wait, just one? Just one? No, I think it was a series of drag shows in Ecuador.

Simone Collins: I don't know. I mean, like, I, I imagine that, like, the drag branches that we've gone to, I think they just run totally on tips.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so, but I mean, this is different because in Ecuador, maybe they don't want them doing this as much. So we got 80, 000 for LGBT Community Center in Vlava, Slovakia. Oh, so they get a building out of this.

That's great. And now everyone's gonna know that that's not gonna earn [00:25:00] us friends. What are you doing people? You don't get to promote your religion as if it's the state religion. This is horrifying. It makes people hate us. Okay. Next. And here we've got the BBC media action thing. So this is what I want to talk about here, because I think that this one it's been both oversold and undersold in some way.

So a lot of people are acting like we gave money to the BBC. We didn't give money to the BBC. We gave money to a nonprofit that was started by the BBC. And we gave them so much money. It represented 8 percent of their budget. It's like the BBC's core nonprofit arm. So, what they do is they train journalists in other countries.

On how to, and, and the BBC like freaked out about this. They're like, oh my God, this temporary halt in our funding is catastrophic for us and free media. And I'm like, okay, first of all, not temporary, not, this is not going to be temporary. If, if, the, the dumbest thing the leftists could do right now is forcibly through the courts reinstate all of this.

America is [00:26:00] gonna freak out if you do that. But okay BBC, which by the way, someone like a Gestapo, they'll go to George, you have a Netflix subscription, then you've got to pay us. I was under the

Simone Collins: impression that they are already forcibly extracting funds from British citizens. I don't think they need

Malcolm Collins: to make Dr.

Who gayer. I don't have problems with like whatever gayness used to be like, I don't have problems with like normal gays when I say make Dr. Who gayer. I mean, like, whatever the hell this is

아아

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-9: And I'm all for, like, gay and trans coded villains, whether we're talking about Ursula, or Jaffa, or anything else here. I just don't want the thing that's threatening about them to be the fact that they come off like they constantly want to grape a child.

,

Speaker 17: Well, like, the poverty in Agrabah is super bad. I run into starving children practically every day.

Kids are [00:27:00] getting their hands chopped off, women are bought and sold, Yeah,

Speaker 16: yeah, get rid of piracy and establish world peace and social equality, anything

Speaker 17: else? No, no, no, wait, wait, hold on, I'm just, uh, I'm just thinking out loud. I want you to disguise me as a prince so I can trick the princess into sucking my dick.

Speaker 16: Uh, well, I I've got some rules, I can't make people fall in love, uh No, no,

Speaker 17: no love. I just want to lie as much as possible to convince her to sleep with me. I think she's like crazy shallow and won't give a s**t unless I'm marching into the city surrounded by jewels and slaves.

Malcolm Collins: Like, the modern Doctor Doctor Who used to be awesome, I really like Doctor Who, like, how did you ruin it so entirely?

Yeah, I think we're extra

Simone Collins: angry about it because we liked it, and it was great. Well, yeah, if

Malcolm Collins: they come on, and it's like, somebody are like, oh, you know, we messed up their Star Wars, we messed up their Doctor Who, like, why are they so angry about that? It's because you guys didn't care about this stuff, you didn't like this stuff, it's like, you bought our childhood home, and then, like, wrote Like, we hate you and s**t all over it, like, obviously people are going to take that personally.

When you destroy the games that we like playing, when you destroy [00:28:00] the studios that made the games we like playing, when you destroy the properties that the nerds liked, because the nerds, it turns out were not as much on your side as you thought they were, when you write your name and s**t all over everything they care about.

Which, you know, what was Star Wars Acolyte, for example. But the point here being is this organization basically does, like, remember how I was talking about that, like, non binary outreach in, like, Sri Lanka and stuff like that? They run programs like that all over the world trying to woke ify journalists.

That's the gist of what they do, and they're acting like they support local journalists. No, no, no, they do a little of that. But the core idea is is to support woke journalism in the developing world and around the world. And it is not something that I think a lot of people are even actually watching. I mean, we'll get to how few people some of these like millions, millions programs actually reached, and it's like not a lot of people.

So, another one that I thought was really interesting. Talk about something we don't care about is. Menstrual hygiene. So, so teaching girls in India they [00:29:00] spent, I think 7 million on this about menstrual hygiene,

Simone Collins: which is like, why, why are you just like every woman they've been around just dealt with menstruation,

Malcolm Collins: their argument here to, to stay on them is that they, in India, there's a lot of stigma to like talking about this Which I'm like, okay, that means that their culture has a resistance to this.

If you're out denying or imposing, I mean, what this is, is cultural imperialism. This entire thing is just a program of systemic cultural imperialism. Denying their cultural preferences, of course you're going to anger them, right? You're like, oh, but it's for the good of the women. Do the women feel that way?

This, the studies that have gone to try to look at USAID, like, actually increases opinions within regions have not shown that they do in overwhelming numbers. It does not appear that they are, which of course they don't, they're just ignoring the culture. What is the stigma other than that, right? Now another one I thought was pretty interesting was nine [00:30:00] million dollars that went to terrorists.

An Al Qaeda organization, and I was like, wait, what?

Simone Collins: Wait, intentionally? Or by mistake? Not intentionally. But let's

Malcolm Collins: talk about this one.

Simone Collins: Okay. Is this like the condoms that were given to people in Gaza and then they were used for bombs? Something like that?

Malcolm Collins: So this case involves a Syrian national named Mahmoud El Hafein, Mahmoud, it doesn't appear Mahmoud, Mahmoud, I haven't seen this one here who was charged with diverting over 9 million in U.

S. funded humanitarian aid intended for Syrian civilians, El Hafein, who handed a non government organization NGO in Syria allegedly directed food kits valued at millions of dollars to commanders leading al nashra front a and f a designated foreign terrorist organization affiliated with al qaeda in iraq the food kits were meant for conflict affected syrian refugees but al hafeen Reportedly sold them on the black market to a and F Commanders for his personal benefit.

The case is considered one [00:31:00] of the most significant diversions of USA aid diverted humanitarian aid. But, but, ooh, how did this happen? Like, I think a lot of people, they're like, oh, they're Muslims. We don't need to oversight this. Like, th this should have been caught way earlier. This is horrifying that this went on for as long as it did because there just is not a lot of oversight in these departments.

And, and you see this with the hatred that these programs get in other countries, right? If you are a Chinese organization or something and you're implementing something like this, the first thing you would check is, do people hate us for doing this? Is this being sold on the black market? Is this, you know, and they have nobody coming in afterwards checking on this stuff.

It's basically just like the money like machine for them because to them, they are doing aid or good, even though it's somebody else's money. They have no concept of that as we saw in that initial piece.

Simone Collins: But I think it's viewed from a very academic standpoint. Like it doesn't really matter if it fails because they've learned something [00:32:00] and at least they tried and.

They're trying to do the right thing, and I don't think, I think there's a large disconnect.

Malcolm Collins: I think there's a total disconnect in, in what happened one of the Saudi leaders, cause you know Trump made all of these headways in creating peace in the Middle East with the last administration, I think he's gonna cinch the deal this time, I think we're already seeing great things, very looking forward to the Riviera Gaza, watch our episode on that, that's a joke by the way, I don't think he actually wants to do that, it's a negotiating tactic.

But anyway

Simone Collins: For what it's worth

Malcolm Collins: Saudi Arabia, one of the leaders there, this is after Trump was in power. So he's not like buttering up Trump. He's like, you know, the Trump team did two really interesting things in negotiations, which allowed us to make all the progress we made. This was like piece of the Middle East negotiations.

He's like, first, like Trump was actually involved. So like we knew that we were dealing with somebody who had decision making powers and when Trump went to them, the first thing he asked us. He said it was a question no one had ever asked us before. It was, what do you guys need to make this deal happen?

What do you care about? No one had ever asked us before. Because these, these, these government bureaucrats, they have no experience making deals or thinking about this from [00:33:00] the perspective of the average citizen. Apparently, he said what they had always done before is the academics would decide what should be the right solution.

They would then go to the Saudis and say, how much money do we need to give you to make this happen? And of course, nothing ever happened. This is why and when we talk about like peace not happening in the Middle East, we're talking about people dying, being great to death, horrifying, horrifying stuff.

There is a cost to the intelligence of these bureaucrats. People are dying because of their actions. As as many people as they're saving easily. Because they are not solving real problems where this should be handled by other departments. That's core goal is either building you know, I think U.

S. Positive relations in these regions or you know, advancing the U. S. Is interest in these regions. Or I mean, that's the reason why we're giving it to you. I'm not against when people are like, Oh, you're against like the AIDS medication for Africans. I'm not against that. I'm against money being stolen to pay for that.

If you want to pay for that, [00:34:00] donate to it yourself.

Speaker 4: What exactly did you teach my daughter?

Speaker 5: Oh, you must be Mrs. Burkus.

Speaker 4: Lauren was supposed to do a paper on why government matters. This is what she wrote.

Speaker 6: It doesn't. Well said.

Speaker 4: Is this a joke?

Speaker 6: No ma'am, I legitimately believe that.

Simone Collins: I'm against, especially if you're less effective at administering it. Then I'm also against it. Like, for some people, you know, you can buy something for 5 and get 4. 85 worth of value. The problem is that USAID was buying something for 5 and getting 0. 03 worth of value.

And that's where I really Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: this could have been handled better. By independent organizations and, and so for everyone who's like, complains, like, do you want these kids to die? It's like, are you donating to save these kids now? No? Then shut the f k up, to be honest. Because clearly you don't care enough to make the sacrifice yourself, you care enough to force other people to sacrifice for it.

But to keep going here, I want to talk about something that a [00:35:00] lot of people have mentioned, which is the five million that went to the Eco Alliance, an NGO linked to the bat virus research at the Wuhan lab. So this is one that turned out like it looked not bad and then it was worse than I thought it was.

Oh my gosh. So the U. S. Agency for International Development, USAID, awarded 5. 6 million grant to EcoHealth Alliance in 2021. This grant was for implementing the conservation works activity in southwestern Liberia, focused on improving farming practices and sustainable opportunities. So I'm like, okay, but why is this so bad?

However, the award has been controversial due to EcoHealth's previous work with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and its leader, oh, who, who ran this? Peter.

So, people who forget who this is, he's the guy who it turned out was funding the Wuhan lab, and then was the guy who told everyone that the that this is a conspiracy that it came from a lab, and started all of the policies to crack down on anybody talking about it [00:36:00] being a conspiracy that it came from a lab, and what wasn't disclosed is that the core source, That the U.

S. Government was using for all of this was also the guy who had funded it all. So of course he did that. And so then he continued to use us taxpayer money to lie to the U. S. Taxpayers when he caused one of the world's greatest tragedy. Like this guy is like. personally responsible for Covid in a big way.

And then used U. S. Taxpayer money to try to hide that he should never be getting any money from the U. S. Government again. And yet here he is getting 4. 5 million after the fact. And we note here that 1. 1 million between 2009 and 2019 from USAID through the predict project did go to to the Wuhan lab and the work he was doing there.

Okay, so, bad. The guy who created COVID is living off of your tax dollars. Have fun, America. That's an incredibly bad look. Oh, wow. Millions of dollars of your tax dollars, by the way. The, and keep in mind, like, I'd actually [00:37:00] be okay if he's like, look, we messed up with this gain of function research. Like, I'd still be like, what you did was super bad, but at least when you recognized it came from the lab you were funding, you admitted it.

But no, you had people deplatformed, you had their careers destroyed for pointing out that you had done this. That is completely unforgivable once you recognize that it was your fault.

It is time for the Mad Scientist Society's Annual Most Evil Invention in the World Contest. Hear, hear,

ha ha ha! The most evil invention in the world is my shrink ray! My entry for world's most evil invention is the freeze ray. Okay. Who is next? Thank you.

Hi guys, uh, I'm um, my name is ,

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: Peter Daszak.

and uh, I um, and for the most evil invention in the [00:38:00] world contest, I invented a uh, a

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Deadly virus that you probably know is COVID.

I beg your pardon, what? Um, Oh, I'm sorry, I'll speak up. Uh,

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-4: So I directed taxpayer money To the Wuhan COVID gain of function lab where they make the COVID virus both more virulent and more deadly.

And then when people started to suspect that COVID may have come from a lab leak, I got anybody who claimed this, using taxpayer money, of course, fired and removed from their jobs and attempted to ruin their lives.

um. So, uh, do I win the contest? I win? Seems like I win. Oh my god! My most evil idea was a blizzard in July. Right. Well, I went in a slightly different direction with the assignment. You built

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: A deadly pandemic.

Yes, yes, yes. That's exactly right. This guy gets it. You get it.

Oh my god, no I don't! How, [00:39:00] how do you even build a

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: Deadlier more virulent virus.

Well, that's a, um, that's a great question. What you do is you start by building a regular

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-4: COVID virus and then you make small modifications to it.

That might make it more of your land or more deadly, and then you test it out on thousands upon thousands of animals until you find one that's just really good at killing things.

and hope that it continues, uh, the cycle. That's the most hideous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Oh, well, thank you very much. You see, the shrink guy, , is with me all the way. Stop saying that! Webster's Dictionary, defines evil as profoundly immoral. We know what evil means! Well, it doesn't seem like you do, because you built a, a freeze ray. I think someone should call the police. .

Malcolm Collins: 7. 9 million program to question in question is the media empowerment for this is a Sri Lanka one right where they're like, Oh, promoting like gender ideology in Sri Lanka.

So [00:40:00] what was actually going on with this one? So this had a gender and LGBTQ plus focus. Recently, MEND has released educational materials addressing gender and LGBT related topics, including a presentation on gender pronouns, encouraging journalists to avoid assumptions about gender identity and normalize sharing pronouns guidelines to using quote lgbtq plus sensitive language and reporting in quote advising against phrases like born a girl or born a boy materials on gender expressions and gender roles.

Simone Collins: What was this the piece? This really was just about indoctrination There's nothing here that's going to win you favors with the target

Malcolm Collins: No, no, it was about spreading a religion, like, it's insane, it is cultural imperialism nakedly and rawly, if you hated imperialism. But

Simone Collins: not even like the full U. S.

representative culture, like a very small cult subset of, of the American culture, that is so bad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but they're the good guys, and they're like, yeah, but we're good, and I'm like, [00:41:00] everybody thinks their religion is the good guys. But the rest of us have the common sense, I don't try to force my techno puritan beliefs on you, yet.

Because I don't have the power yet, I'm joking. I'm joking. We won't force them on you. Depending on the power differential between groups. But no, no, I never would because I don't want, you know, we do have an intrinsic belief in cultural diversity because if their beliefs are better than me, then they should be able to beat me.

But what beating you looks like in an economic context when I'm talking about my distant descendants. I think some people might construe as a level of economic disparity if they do as well as I hope they will. But the, the, when you look at how little people this actually touched, so if you look at all the people who were in their program, how many citizens did they reach?

Because they taught other stuff than this gender ideology stuff. How many citizens did they reach with this program? So for 7. 9 million, They reached 24, 000 citizens.

Simone Collins: Wait, I want to do the what is

Malcolm Collins: the per person math? Well, I don't really have hands. That's like well under what we hit on an [00:42:00] average of three videos.

Now keep in mind some of our videos go way high, but I'd say on like an average any week we're hitting way more than that for free.

Simone Collins: I had to do the math with one hand, but that's 316 per person. If you just gave each person 316 and were like, Hey, don't be a dick if someone has, like, a slightly different gender, I think that people would take it a lot better than this program.

That would be so much more interesting. Or just, like, literally have, like, 8, an openly trans person, give them a check for 316 each. Or let's just, you know what, maybe like 25, 000 goes to the trans person who hands out the money, because, right, they need to be compensated, right? So 25, 000 to the trans person, and then 310, sorry, 315.

I love that you

Malcolm Collins: don't even care about the ideology here, you're like, this is just so inefficient. I just, I mean, at least be efficient. At least be efficient. It only, it only works by stealing from us, [00:43:00] which now we're realizing they've been doing. This is why nobody bought the games. You should go to my episodes, like, why did nobody buy these games?

Like, a suspiciously low number of people bought, like, Concord and stuff like that. Why did nobody buy them? If, if this is a real movement. And now I'm realizing it's not, it's just a few Karens. In strategic places within organizations and a lot of your money your money your when I say your money It's your money at target, you know targets being sued now for this by like pension funds that put their money in them because they had lied about all the woke s**t that they were doing and they were like, oh this can't hurt.

Uh are are under You know our sales. It's only gonna help sales. When they should have known given the you know, Coors Light thing. Was it Coors Light? I don't remember. Maybe I shouldn't be It was Budweiser, Budweiser, Budweiser. Then everyone was the same company. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point being is they, sorry, was I saying they, they, when Target does something like this, when a big company does something like this, that really only has power and money due to [00:44:00] institutional momentum.

That is stealing money from us, the American people. That is stealing money from our pensions when they lose money over, you know, selling, you know, trans stuff in the children's department and selling, you know, tux swimsuits for creepy people. Like, this is a, this is, whether it is the U. S. State Department or whether it is Target or Walmart or right now Costco, which I would say no one should shop at Costco anymore, they didn't drop their DEI department, they need to be, they, they,

Simone Collins: Wait, what?

Wait, hold on. I don't know anything about this. I didn't even know they had a D. E. I. That seems unlike them.

Malcolm Collins: They are one of the few companies that is refusing to drop their D. E. I. initiatives. I've heard from people we know who work there who are like, Yeah, it's so bad at Costco right now. All of these, like, diversity hires are being promoted over people who have been there for ages.

Nothing's functioning anymore. Go to BJ's. BJ's are the real company. Costco's evil. Also, I'm a big fan of BJ's. BJ's clean. They actually clean their floors and don't look like you're in a developing country. So, we got 3. 3 million here. That 3, [00:45:00] yeah, 3. 3 million. Dang. I thought it was less than that.

It went to being LGBT in the Caribbean through USAID. So I wanted to understand better what this org was doing. This funding is likely part of the USAID's efforts to promote LGBT and intersex rights in the Caribbean. It appears to be connected to, quote, being LGBT in the Caribbean initiative, which is a collaboration between USAID and the UN Development Program.

Oh, yay, the UN. So, Europeans, you're not out of this. The program aims to promote LGBTQ and intersex rights in countries such as the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Barbados. Activities include supporting local organizations, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Basically making these countries hate us. And again, how is this, how is this aligned with any of the, any of your average American's goals?

Simone Collins: Yeah, the big layers of this are, one, just even if you 100 percent ideologically agreed with every single project of USAID, You would be angry about the inefficiency of its spending, too.

Malcolm Collins: And if [00:46:00] you want to promote this, spend the money yourself, man.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that, that as well, especially because it's not representative of all Americans.

And that brings me to grievance number two, which is that they were furthering the agenda of very specific cultural ideologies that is, are not universally held. In fact, it's a small minority of Americans who hold those views and they're spreading those. And then third, the, if the mission of USAID is to basically build social points.

With other countries don't do things that run contrary to those countries, cultures and norms.

Malcolm Collins: What I put out here is that this isn't even normal within gay populations.

Like

I look at like, you know, our network, right? And you've got people in it where people are like, well, I don't know, you know, these people might have some problems with some of the stuff you say, because they're gay, like Peter Thiel and like Mike Solana.

And I'm like, no man, like. For example, I know Mike Solana. Definitely doesn't have He does not want money! Mike Solana's not gay.

I heard he [00:47:00] is. But he doesn't make it his personality, you know what I mean? Like It's clearly not the personality of either of them.

So the Mike Solana being gay thing is really weird for us because, , we had a fan reach out to us and they're like, well, there's this guy, maybe you should have on your show. And we are going to have him on the show. , Mike Solana, but like, you should be. You know, aware he is gay and here we are like, but first of all, like Mike's a lot of like a friend who like I've known for a while and I was like, I didn't, I didn't know he was gay.

And that's what I was referencing here. And so then I went to check before this episode went live because I don't want to like call some random friend of ours game. I don't know. He's gay. Turns out. Yeah, he's gay. \ , but like, this is super stealthy gay, like his Wikipedia profile. \ , the only place it mentions that he's gay is, is at the very bottom.

It has him under the category of bay gay businessman

And I think that these organizations, they don't get it.

They don't get that like You know, Scott Pressler doesn't want this stuff. Your, your average gay doesn't want this stuff. [00:48:00] This, this, this because it makes people hate gays within these countries. When you tie like real gay people's identity to like trans story hours and like this ridiculous trans stuff where they end up specifically

Simone Collins: to versions of LGBTQ whatever ideology that are coercive and not about Yeah.

Having sovereignty over your own life. Again, that's where it draws the line. About forcing other people to act in a way that

Malcolm Collins: feels unnatural to them rather than you being able to live your own way this is going to cause these people to hate gay people and think gay people are preying on their children and like, this stuff needs to be, you know, I might actually just going forwards, whenever I read like LGBTQ plus just say trans.

Because it's not LGBTQ plus. They're never pushing. Yeah, it's,

Simone Collins: it's, it's somewhat insulting to like loop in all of these other groups with one group that is extremely different in function. And also in like, in the app, it's a very different ask among the trans community than what you get. I mean, like [00:49:00] gays, lesbians, asexuals, queers, whatever.

Like they just want to be allowed to live their lives. Whereas trans people want other people to not, in certain ways, allow them into certain spaces that they're not allowed into, like, that, that, it's a totally different game.

Malcolm Collins: And it's

Simone Collins: particularly

Malcolm Collins: hurtful to lesbians who are like, like, like, there's a category of trans people who's just like a lesbian predator.

Like, that's what they do. Their, their, their whole thing is trying to you know, corrective sex lesbians into, we used to call this corrective grape. And for people who don't know, growing up when I was younger, they'd say like, oh Trying to force a lesbian to sleep with you because you have a penis and that will cure them.

That's called corrective grape and it's really evil. And now there's like a whole category of like trans people online that's like, well, if you don't sleep with me, I'm a woman, right? That makes you a a, a transphobe. And so you should just try girl dick and then learn that you actually do like trans women, even when we haven't transitioned into look or whatever.

This is, this is a, obviously a hetero [00:50:00] male sex pest. I think everyone else knows this, but now they own this movement and can use it to, to pressure people in other countries, use it to you know, when they get this money, the orgs that are getting this money, they're the ones that are using this to turn like lesbian bars and enforcing them to let these people in and, and, and, and prey on lesbian women and the lesbian dating apps, as we've seen in like, Australia, they're not even allowed to say, Hey, no, if you don't pass, we don't want you on this app.

Which is. Yeah. Really sad. So yeah, I shouldn't, I should just be saying trans nonsense going forwards.

Okay. So, we got 14 million in cash vouchers here for migrants on the southern border. What was this about? This is one where I was like, okay, okay. What's going on here? This funding was allocated to provide cash vouchers for migrants at the United States southern border. The program has been criticized by some who argue that the this incentivizes illegal immigration and misuses taxpayer money.

And then they go, but no, no, no, no, it's okay, because this assistance, the 14 million, was part of a larger 1. 6 billion [00:51:00] aid plan, which included 372 million for cash voucher assistance.

And multi purpose cash assistance for an estimated 600, 000

migrants.

That doesn't make it okay. That doesn't make it okay. No, that doesn't make it okay. That's so much worse. That is so much worse. It's like, oh, so we were spending money from, we, the American taxpayers, were giving cash vouchers to migrants.

I love the left, like, people aren't giving them debit cards with money on it. Well, here it is. How much money do we have? Yeah, I always wondered

Simone Collins: about that. Is this that is this the debit cards for that's what this is 72 million for something that came up a lot during the election and like interviews of people who are angry and wanted policy changes with immigration and then I was like, but that can't possibly be.

No one's actually giving.

Malcolm Collins: So it says here, the assistance is provided through various means, including prepaid debit cards, cash in envelopes, bank transfers, and mobile transfers.[00:52:00]

So that's, that happened. And they, they, they acted like we were conspiracy theorists for saying this is happening. Okay. So here's one that really got me. The. Half a million dollars to promote an expansion of atheism in Nepal. So You know Nepal is a religious country, right? Like you're aware of that.

It's a it's a Buddhist country even if it's under the control of the Chinese government right now. It is still a buddhist state. So what did this organization actually do? The grant was originally titled promoting and defending religious freedom inclusive of atheists humanists non practicing and non affiliated individuals and they're like, we didn't know this was just gonna go to promoting atheism.

How could you not know that with that title? Okay. The State Department claimed the grant's purpose was to prevent discrimination against individuals who do not adhere to the predominant religious tradition, not to promote atheism specifically. However, investigation revealed that the grant recipient, Humanist International, HI, may have misused the funds to advance [00:53:00] the humanist cause and expand atheist networks.

The grant's stated objectives includes increasing, quote, capacity among members of atheists and heterodox individuals to form or join networks or organizations, end quote, which contradicts the State Department's claims that this was intended for neutrality. They are literally advancing the religion.

Of this minority cult in these other countries in every facet, whether it is the green energy, whether it is the wokeness, whether it is the atheism they do not care about polar promoting America's best interests that can be done by the state department that is done by the state department. It's not like people like.

Who is going to give money to other countries if USAID doesn't exist? A lot of organizations in the U. S. exist to give money to other countries other than USAID. USAID exists to promote a specific agenda.

Thoughts, Simone? That's the end here. That's it. That's all she wrote in terms of information. [00:54:00]

Simone Collins: It's been much worse than I thought. And I, I like that there's some talk of like, well, sure, we'll keep around. The 200 and something employees who are actually doing the job of USAID. And I think that really like the real job of what USAID was meant to be done can be effectively executed by approximately 200 people.

I could see a place for this. I'm also for Congress dissolving this entirely. Especially in light of must be dissolved at this point. Now, with everything that's

Malcolm Collins: come to light, it must be dissolved. The problem is that the executive branch can't do that independently. It needs Congress. And they can probably defund it.

Which so, okay. So it was created by an executive order and then ratified by Congress on two separate occasions. However, keep in mind, Republicans control Congress right now. So you're going to get a lot of pushback if they don't go against this. And I expect the good guy Democrats, like Peter Mittal, like that.

By the way, I've talked to Simone about this. We might do a different episode on this. Republicans are going to have trouble beating Fetterman if he ends up running [00:55:00] for general. He's really proving himself pretty strong here. We'll see if he can beat a Democratic primary. But he might, he might.

If the Democrats have woken up, you know. I think so. I think Fetterman represents

Simone Collins: the new viable branch of the Democratic Party. I

Malcolm Collins: do too, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. The people he didn't see. He did a big thing on why we need the mass deportations recently. He's like, but you know, we need this. These people are here illegally.

Like, do you not care about your citizens at all? He said that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's, he's based. But anyway, he had to, he had to get a brain aneurysm to be the smartest Democrat. And people here, they're like, why don't you go back to your old content? I'll tell you, there's two reasons why we're not back to our old content.

One is because freaking every day, something crazy new is happening in politics right now that I have to cover. But the second reason is, is because you're actually watching episodes. We generally record two episodes a day. And so you're seeing all the episodes that have to be timely, and all the episodes that don't have to be timely are going to be airing when I'm on vacation, and those are the ones that cover topics like philosophy and religion, because I can air those when I'm in the middle of a political [00:56:00] event.

So that's actually why you're getting so many political episodes right now. It's not that we're not producing the other type of episode, we're just not airing them right now. But Also, I'm just amazed by how much has happened in such a short time period. I, it really has been, yeah, I don't

Simone Collins: know if this has ever happened before, maybe in the very early stages of the United States when like, you know, there were like 10 people in politics.

But this is, it

Malcolm Collins: feels like a revolution. It feels like a revolution. It feels like, you know, people are like, oh my God something big is happening. You know, I said it feels like when I. Look at my government people. I know now like when SBF and It's the same baby and freeze whole thing went bust and the EA orgs were all like freaking out and scrambling It's like where's all the free money?

I was promised for for sucking, you know, the d of the urban monoculture and They were freaking out and I was laughing. And Now we are seeing this again. And I think a lot of them are like, oh my [00:57:00] god you guys Look, look, because you voted MAGA, now random children in Africa aren't being given shots to prevent AIDS, and I'm like, why the f was I paying for that?

Thank you for telling me that I had this subscription. It's like somebody's like, now your subscription to X has expired! And I'm like, I'm so I didn't know I was subscribed to that, can we can we get rid of the subscription? I'm all for helping these kids in Africa with your own money, not with my damn money!

And not with money that I want going to, I want The people in L. A. Because they're my countrymen. I want the people in in in these flooded regions. And another thing when we talk about like talking to other countries. This is something Simone and I were talking a lot about today and it really hit me. USAID's like, you know, where they hit, what was it?

Like 24, 000 people for like 7. 5 million. Right? Okay. You, my show watchers may be surprised about this, but only 55 percent of our audience is American. So what? About half the people who watch our show [00:58:00] are people from other countries who are getting their understanding, in part, of what Americans are like, what they believe, what this administration is like, from our show.

Speaker 5: let's go start a f*****g revolution. Take it!

Speaker: The entire world would be better off if these people were permanently removed from these platforms. Like, there is no downside and only upside to see people like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Tim Poole never be allowed to publicly broadcast their opinions ever again.

Speaker 5: Tread on them! Tread the f**k all over them!

Speaker: I don't give a f**k about anybody that winds up at any of these rallies and gets shot or whatever the f**k, okay?

Speaker 6: You gotta fight! For your rights! At home in such despair. Now

Speaker 20: Is free speech under threat in the UK? With the rise of arrests over grossly offensive memes,

Speaker 7: bussy. You gotta fight for your [00:59:00]

Speaker: If any U. S. university is discovered to have engaged in censorship activities such as flagging social media content, those universities should lose federal student loan support

Speaker 24: Ding dong! It's America, motherfucker.

Speaker: When users have their content or accounts removed, throttled, shadow banned, they should have the right to be informed that it's happening. The right to a specific explanation of the reason why .

Speaker 22: Yeah, you're right, man. I'll call the cops. No, no, no, no, no. We can't call the cops. That's admitting failure. Dennis, we gave people too much freedom. That's the problem.

Speaker 14: the United States, is but a paper tiger.

A weak nation, a weak people cowards! No longer willing to

[01:00:00]

Speaker 13: Don't ever let me catch you guys in America!

Malcolm Collins: I probably reach about as much people as USAID uh, reaches in a positive light. Because the algorithm is serving this. People can say like, well, some people that hate your show. And I'm like, well, then the algorithm is not serving it to them. So whatever, right? The algorithm is serving this to people who like this sort of stuff, and this positively endears them to America.

And so whether it's in Africa or wherever if people are wondering where we get clusters, we get a lot of watchers in Latin America. We get a lot of watchers in Eastern Europe. You know, and I, I, I think that those are because our mindsets highly aligned with those regions a lot of watchers in canada too actually like seven percent of our watchers are in canada.

It's seven point six or something A lot of our not that many are in the uk. I was surprised by that But I think it's because they're all on vpns because they don't want to get arrested for for Having an independent thought I I feel for you brothers I feel like i'm talking to people in a in some sort of internment camp when i'm talking to the people in the uk an article on slate came out about us Yesterday, hating us.

Simone, talk about this article, because I loved your take on this late article. It was like, [01:01:00] how dare they?

Simone Collins: It's just like, will someone please stop writing about these people? And that the only thing that's plausibly interesting or that we've ever achieved in life is that we told people that they need to have more kids.

But then the author proceeds to, like, write about all this coverage about us, about our other projects, our books, and our school, and our podcast, and our non profit. And our religion! Yeah, it's just kind of like The only thing they've

Malcolm Collins: ever done is

Simone Collins: everything! Like,

Malcolm Collins: way more than

Simone Collins: most people do with their entire lives.

Why do people keep writing about this couple? I mean, like, also it completely glosses over that, oh, I don't know, maybe because demographic collapse is one of the most pressing issues of our time.

Malcolm Collins: And I'd point out to people who think, because a lot of people, they know us from like our show, which is like somewhat popular, but like not super popular, right?

Like, I'll be honest. I understand was like our YouTube and X following why people would be surprised. We are like the thing that I have a real talent for is making media stories go viral and [01:02:00] get a white audience. The Washington post piece that was done on us ended up being Washington post top piece read that day on the day where Trump.

Announced that he planned to annex Gaza and turn it into the new Riviera. We beat that story so we're we're very good Even though people are like i've seen this story before of continuing to catch the public narrative Because we do a new spin on it every time we work as a reporter every time on how to do that and the truth is is that the average internet user Has the memory of a goldfish, and so, when we're doing these stories, when we're crafting these stories, it's not to hit you, our general audience, it is to further pierce the public narrative, and to refocus what is pronatalism who are the pronatalists, are they all a bunch of religious extremists?

Yes. I mean, the articles never come off that way. I always try to get them to come off that way, but they use us to show that we're actually a much more I guess, inviting movement than people would expect, because one of the things we [01:03:00] always point out in this is we've got friends who are religious extremists, but we're not traditional religious extremists, we're crazy religious extremists.

Your kind claimed your flesh, as if it will not decay and fail you. One day, the crude farmer As that you call a temple will wither, for a machine is immortal.

Even in

Malcolm Collins: anyway, I love you to death, Simone. Any final thoughts?

Simone Collins: Nope. Just that this is absolutely insane. I mean, I'm hoping that the, that USAID is the warmup round. I know they're kind of looking at social security now and that, I mean, hopefully they'll move on to bigger and bigger things.

But the, I think USAID is a really good warmup round because it's not like, it's not touching any of the. Like major arteries, you know, it's, it's not, it's kind of floating [01:04:00] out on its own, doing its thing. 1 percent of the total us budget, essentially like a little bit less than that. So like to them it's, it must have been a really good test case to see like, okay, how are we going to be resisted?

How are people going to try to stonewall us? And I just

Malcolm Collins: always go over the most indispensable thing first when you're attacking progressives because that's where they will die. And so as the administration goes after other things, people will continue to focus on USAID because it's the most undefensible thing.

That's the way the progressive apparatus operates. Which makes it very easy to beat, and it was an incredibly shrewd move on Muskeem's part to start here. Because there is no defending USA. Apparently not when you dig

Simone Collins: fairly deep, it's Honestly, I just I would have expected more that they, Would come out, with, come out with stories about like the children that they're feeding, and like, the lives that they're saving on a daily basis.

And, the fact that we really [01:05:00] haven't seen, and I, I, you know I watch a lot of leftist coverage, so like, I'm, I'm waiting for it, and I'm just not seeing it, I'm like wait, where's my, like, Where is it my all

Malcolm Collins: the little kids who are going to die?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, because I thought there was at least some of that.

I'm sure that there is. I'm sure that there is. It's just, I'm really shocked by like how little of this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, so the Trump administration is doing it right. If you go after the Trans opera. Even if there's a way to be like, well, the trans opera actually didn't work like that, and it wasn't directly funded, and, you know, we need to focus on the kids who are dying, leftists will attempt to defend the concept of a trans opera.

That is the way the game machine works. They are unable to say, Oh, well, that would be really stupid if we were doing that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: can't.

Malcolm Collins: I can't. It's tolerable. Which, by the way, they weren't funding

directly, but the leftists won't let go of this hot potato that's burning their hands.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.[01:06:00]

It's bad. It's bad, bad, bad, bad. Really bad luck.

Malcolm Collins: I'm, I'm sorry. And I'd be interested to see how this plays out. Because a lot of leftist influencers are freaking out now and maybe be getting, like, deplatformed. Like Hassan, who supports terrorists in the eradication of the Jewish people. So, you know, not a good guy.

Yeah, he's not. He definitely does. He has, he has repeatedly supported terrorist organizations and when people have asked us to denounce it, ask him to denounce them, like direct and he's had plenty of opportunity to you know, he supports October 7th, he says. Not even like, plenty of, of, of good people on both sides.

He's, he's like, it's a complicated issue, but they're heroes. Not, not but they're heroes, but he said that they're heroes on other occasions.

Simone Collins: Oh boy. Oh boy. Well. But I think that we've

Malcolm Collins: now got them to a position where there's got to be some,

Retreat. Hopefully.

Oh, speaking of the

school that you said was a Slate article, anybody who wants to beta [01:07:00] test that, please help us out.

Yeah. Love you to

decimone. You are my heroine. I mean that literally because you get me heroine.

She, she,

she's like, I want to learn to cook you. All of the things you love. She's learning to cook me heroin.

Sorry I'm joking. Can you cook me heroin? What are we doing today for dinner? Are we doing curry? You can do curry or you can

Simone Collins: do gyoza and fried rice. I'm making fried rice for the kids regardless.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, then I'll do gyoza and fried rice. Your gyoza is amazing. And you are We're trying

Simone Collins: the new one from that amazing Asian specialty store.

The fried rice? Remember? No, yeah, no, no. The gyoza. I make the fried rice from scratch. But the gyoza is from, you picked it out, you were like, I really want to eat it. Oh, the meat one! Yes! I want to do that!

Malcolm Collins: Oh, Andy. Oh, you are a heroine, Simone. Thank you.

Simone Collins: Well, I will I will start that and I love you very [01:08:00] much.

Malcolm Collins: We gotta get dumpling dipping sauce from them because I bet they have some really good stuff. We found this amazing, like, giant, giant, giant Asian store by our house. It was magic. It was magical. It is so magical. Everything's

Simone Collins: recorded. You can get everything there. And like, even like stuff that I used to have to order special, and like at any other Asian shop we'd go to, maybe there'd be like one version of it.

Like black rice is so hard to get. And they have like four different kinds of it. They have everything.

Malcolm Collins: Everything. So we go, and there was this location. I didn't even mean to find this place, where I remembered, because I was just driving to it based on memory. a small asian specialty shop where i would sometimes go to pick stuff up but it's hard because they'd always take us three things It was about the sign of like a small local grocery store.

You drive in and there's this new store here because we actually drove into the wrong area when we ended up doing this because I put the wrong thing I'm, just looking for the other thing This place is the size of a BJ's or a Costco. It's enormous. And if people are like, Oh, if you're in rural America, you can't get the good.

No rural America. You wouldn't get this in a big city. [01:09:00] You get nothing like this in New York or San Francisco or anything like that. Cause there's just not enough room. Anyway, love you to death Simone. If

Simone Collins: you live in our area, ask us about this place. Especially if you like any sort of Asian food. They've like imported like all the cookies, all the snacks, the chips.

Like they have brands of Doritos that you couldn't possibly get in the United States. It's like they're imported brands that are like pork flavored Doritos. It's amazing. If you want your fresh

Malcolm Collins: jellyfish, this is where you get them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you actually can. It's, it's, oh my gosh, it's just the best.

It's the best. You can get fresh dragon fruit. I mean, you can get that at Whole Foods too, but like, not in Asian places. Even, even their

Malcolm Collins: produce is like, weirdly fresh.

Simone Collins: Oh, their produce is amazing. I don't know how it is. Just, it is the best. It feels like, like, like we're, we're always afraid it's going to disappear.

Like, like it's some kind of, it feels,

Malcolm Collins: it feels magical. I do not know how it appeared randomly one day when we weren't looking for it. And, [01:10:00] and we really needed tons of Asian food that day, because that was the day where you decided you were going to learn to cook me all the Asian dishes.

Simone Collins: And we got it.

We got it all right.

Malcolm Collins: Love you. Love you too.

Simone Collins: Bye.

Malcolm Collins: So Simone, I know, have you seen these anti Trump protests in LA? In LA? Yeah, everyone's going out with you know, Mexican flags to protest being deported, which I don't get. Can you explain this to me? This is, this look is like, wait, wait, wait. So you're mad that we are taking you from the United States, which apparently we have made so good that you don't want to be in Mexico.

You, you came here illegally, and you're protesting us sending you back to Mexico with a Mexican flag.

Simone Collins: Explain this to me. Maybe they are getting hyped for Mexico, which Getting hyped

Malcolm Collins: for their journey home, all expenses paid. [01:11:00] If it's like the Colombians, the presidential plane will come fly them back.

Simone Collins: Well, maybe that's, maybe they're trying to get Mexico to be a little more patriotic and get nicer planes for them.

I mean, it's good. Lobby for slightly better light conditions. So that would be that would be good.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So I'll get started here.

In this episode, Simone and Malcolm Collins discuss a recent Salon article that heavily criticizes their views on pronatalism, egalitarian marriage, and conservative ideologies. They delve into multiple misrepresentations and factual inaccuracies presented by Amanda Marcotte. The couple questions the efficacy of programs like Head Start, advocates for more parental control over education funds, and reacts to allegations of misogyny and eugenics. Additionally, they touch upon Trump administration policies, conservative stances on daycare regulations, and how their personal experiences with childcare shape their viewpoints.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Despite the couple's empty claims to have an egalitarian marriage, they admit Simone Collins does most of the childcare and housework , with the usual false claims that women are intrinsically better at these tasks. B***h, how many men do you know? Who can really, really can do laundry and dishes and cleaning house well.

The type of men who she pegs

Malcolm Collins: do.

It's all consensual, okay? Let's be clear. It's not that I don't keep my wife in chains, or bark orders at her, or tell her what to do, or make her make my food, or do most of the cleaning in the house, or handle our livestock, but I'm a feminist, which means I also force you to earn most of our money.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. It's exciting to be here with you today. We have news articles about us all the time. Just yesterday, we had a big feature in the Washington Post. But and news features, honestly, often mischaracterize us, and I've come to expect that from the mainstream media.

But [00:01:00] we had one from Salon on us recently that was the most It almost felt like the person writing it was screaming the entire time they were writing instead of, like, actually writing it.

Simone Collins: Yeah, the Right. The author, Amanda Marcotte, just seemed kind of unhinged through the whole thing. Like, just Her picture

Malcolm Collins: on Twitter is, by the way, her cat.

But I wanted to get an understanding of, like, before we get into this, because this is just going to be amazing. Like, it is amazing, this feast. When I got my Google Alert on this, It said, Malcolm Collins, who fantasizes about his wife dying in pregnancy. And then to, to hit that point home, they use the quote where I said you know, my wife does put her life at risk with every pregnancy, and that's something that I appreciate.

And Of course, the point I'm making there is I appreciate how hard pregnancy is for women and that there are real risks. Oh,

Simone Collins: [00:02:00] sorry. No, no, no. Malcolm, you're a white man. There's no way you can win this. But actually, I found the article so objectionable, I want to go through it line by line. Because one, I think anyone will find it entertaining.

Two, I think it exemplifies a lot of ways that the left misstates pro natalism. And also just what the Trump administration and conservatives in general are doing anyway. Well, so I don't

Malcolm Collins: know. Okay, so you got to get this from the Trump administration. We need to set the record

Simone Collins: straight. We need to set The lovely

Malcolm Collins: young press person who Trump has right now

Speaker: I was, uh, made aware. of the funding from USAID to media outlets, including Politico, who I know has a seat in this room. Uh, and I can confirm that the more than 8 million taxpayer dollars that have gone to essentially subsidizing subscriptions to Politico on the American taxpayer's dime will no longer be happening.

Uh, the DOJ team is working on canceling those payments now. Again, this is a whole of government effort to ensure that we are going line by line. When it comes to the federal government's [00:03:00] books, and this president and his team are making decisions across the board on do these receipts serve the interests of the American people?

Is this a good use of the American taxpayers money? If it is not, that funding will no longer be sent abroad and American taxpayers will see significant savings because of that effort.

Malcolm Collins: so don't be expecting that money anymore. That is amazing. We have since found that they had been funding anti Gamergate stuff. We found that they were funding anti Lives of TikTok stuff. We found yeah, we'll have a separate episode. I really want to collect all the receipts on this because this is like this huge scandal, but the, the, they put.

Sent 4 million to the New York Times. What are they doing that for? This is, this is where the USA, this is where your tax dollars were going to create all of this nonsense. As we've also shown, Reddit largely astroturfed by the Fed as well. Wokeism doesn't exist. That's why the one thing the Fed forgot to do is to put a layout up for some money to buy these video games.

That the [00:04:00] companies were making for this audience. One of my favorite things that Asma Gold did recently, another guy was talking about this, the guy we have a big overlap with, the little troll guy. Anyway this really was like all of this pushback, all of this insanity that came for our video games.

Never should have, never should have touched the video games. That's when they crossed the line. That was when they crossed the line. We were all just in our rooms, not political, game for the video games. But I want to get to this piece because this piece is insane.

Simone Collins: Yeah, so it is titled, Elon Musk's War on Head Start Childhood Education Exposes How Quote unquote Pronatalists Are Really Anti Woman.

So, let's go into it. Thank you, Amanda Marcotte, for that beautiful, beautiful oh, oh, amazing. And actually, the subtitle of this article quotes you Malcolm, quote, you do not want to give money to women, unquote, declared one leader of the movement to make more babies. Beautiful, beautiful.

I'm going to start with the section that [00:05:00] focuses on us, because it will better demonstrate to our audience how intentionally lying the author of this article is writing for a mainstream newspaper, which I think will be shocking to you, because if you aren't close to a subject of a piece, you can sometimes think, well, maybe the truth is in between.

Maybe they're just being bombastic. And I think this shows just how just straight lies pretty much everything you read in something like Salon is.

On Tuesday, the Washington Post published the approximately billionth profile of Simone and Malcolm Collins, whose entire existence is built around getting soft focus media coverage meant to represent, misrepresent the toxicity of their natalist ideology.

Okay, first off, that's insulting, because we actively try To, to

bring in

negative, like, negative coverage. We, we ask people, like, when journalists come, we're like, Hey, make this controversial, or no one's gonna read it. So, soft focus, excuse me? [00:06:00] Ouch. She continues, The two are thin, wear nerdy glasses, and repeatedly swear up and down that they're neither racist nor sexist, which is often credulous audiences to code them as, quote, liberal, unquote, or at least not MAGA.

We are the most MAGA! Why does she have to point out that we're thin? Like, one, is thin just a sign that we're evil? Like in Star Trek Troopers?

Malcolm Collins: Being fit, being thin, going to a gym, people talk about all of these as like negative signs. It's like, there's like posts about how to know if your kid is getting influenced by red pill ideology.

And it's like, is he working out? Is he masturbating less? I don't know.

Simone Collins: Cause she talks about how we wear nerdy glasses and are thin and, and therefore people think that we're liberal. I think she thinks that MAGA people are fat. Which also doesn't make sense. I don't know, but anyway, very strange. And, She says, But of course, the ruse is a millimeter thick.

And not just because they love [00:07:00] Donald Trump. Despite the couple's empty claims to have an egalitarian marriage, they admit Simone Collins does most of the childcare and housework , with the usual false claims that women are intrinsically better at these tasks. B***h, how many men do you know? Who can really, really can do laundry and dishes and cleaning house well.

The type of men who she pegs

Malcolm Collins: do.

Simone Collins: The

Malcolm Collins: type of men who she pegs do. I mean, Malcolm, I love you, but you're just so bad. You're so bad at it. And then she becomes just like, Wait, you're supposed to use Soap in that and I'm like, it looks fine without it. Look, it smells literally,

Simone Collins: literally Malcolm's response.

When I like hold something up and I'm like, this is unacceptable. He's like, it's not going to make you sick. That is his excuse. That is his standard of cleaning. His standard of cleanliness is. Will it make you sick? If not, it's fine. [00:08:00] So I'm glad you understand,

Malcolm Collins: Simone. So disgusting. I can't,

Simone Collins: I can't. By the way, also we do, and like, this is also a complete misstatement.

You, like a big common thing that we constantly show, and this is very well documented, is that the only reason I chose to have kids was because you were willing to always do 100 percent up to 100 percent of the child care. I never

Malcolm Collins: did anything. That's not true. You still, you always take the

Simone Collins: kids to the doctor.

You always pick them up. You always drive them around. You're the one who takes them to all these things. You go to all the parent meeting things. I don't do that. And we, we, you know, I, I handle a lot of in house stuff because that's what's easiest for me to handle. And it's. It bothers me that she says this but we do obviously find that we, we, as a couple, and this is not universal, tend to gravitate toward more feminine and masculine roles.

Malcolm Collins: It's not true that women are better at cleaning and doing laundry. And I'm like, well, I don't [00:09:00] know what. What women you've dated, but I have found that they are much better at those tasks.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I don't Do you think this, this woman just like lives in a pigsty? Like she lives like Asmogold or something?

I mean April just crawling over her bed.

Simone Collins: Well, she seems just like artsy. She seems

Malcolm Collins: married, by the way. She, she looks like she's married old. She's she compared to the way she dresses. It's really uncomfortable. Like Simone thought she was trans at first. Because she looks really if we're going to talk about looks here.

No,

Simone Collins: welcome. I know she wasn't like

Malcolm Collins: 55 year old pretending to be a 23 year old.

Simone Collins: Malcolm, I'm the one who looks like the Crypt Keeper. Like, let's be honest.

I, you know. Oh, no, she doesn't have a husband. She has a boyfriend. Wait, in 2024, her boyfriend is Mark Foletti, who, quote, owns a record store called Latchkey in Philadelphia. And that she has three cats. She is the mother of three cats.

Malcolm Collins: Mother of three cats. She birthed these [00:10:00] cats.

Simone Collins: I imagine She believes that, Female skill with cooking and cleaning is entirely societally based. She's probably a blank slate ist. I'm gonna think. And it's You know, we were much more blank slate ists until we had kids. Admit it. You know this to be true.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, even knowing the research. I didn't understand how much your personality is cooked

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: we're like whoa personality and gender are completely cooked in at birth.

It is it is shocking if you have kids

Simone Collins: Yeah, it is it is. Yeah, I think that's why it's really hard to come across a parent of Three plus kids and, and have them espouse play latest. 'cause they're like, ah, nope. And you, you get a different role of the DI bet she's got a blank latest when it comes to

Malcolm Collins: cats.

She's like, cat, that's a really funny thing. Cat's personality is at birth. It's just humans. Yeah.

Simone Collins: People talking about like dog braids being like, yeah, humans blink slightest. And they like spend tons of time talking about different dog braids and how they're like, okay, continue, continue with breeds. Right.

They also brag about how much money they put into [00:11:00] genetic testing and IVF treatments to get the best babies, which is not only overtly eugenicist, but cuts against their claim that they want everyone to have more babies. Most people neither have the money or time to spend on such nonsense.

Malcolm Collins: She wants us using this experimental technology on poor children.

First, that's, that's the key. No one should ever use this.

Simone Collins: Because this is only something that evil mad scientists use because she doesn't understand the technology and one she doesn't understand what eugenics is because any couple personally looking at a variety of different traits and deciding on which embryos to have first based on those is clearly not practicing eugenics, which by definition, look at the Wikipedia article requires a belief that there are good and bad genes and also a belief that you should maximize and minimize Those genes respectively on a society wide level, which we're very vehemently against, but she would never take that time to understand that that would, that would require too much time away from the cast.

Malcolm Collins: We support Trump, we must be [00:12:00] Nazis. That's the way, if you disagree with these people politically, you're immediately a Nazi.

Simone Collins: Apparently. No, but continue,

Malcolm Collins: continue.

Simone Collins: She writes the post profile overlooked it but hope not hate Doug even deeper and found the couple has suggested women not be allowed to own property lambasted programs to reduce racial discrimination and hiring and falsely suggested IQ scores are dropping as the US population becomes more racially diverse.

Okay, so we've got

Malcolm Collins: every one of these points. It's fictional. So, well, not, not everyone. One of them is just true, but like, obviously, like, first of all she goes on to be like, look at the Flynn effect. IQ is rising. And I'm like, the reverse Flynn effect has been a phenomenon since the 80s. Well, no, she's,

Simone Collins: she, but she's of the same mindset of the population bomb.

Like, clearly she, like, Took in all the information shortly after she was born and then like went offline.

Malcolm Collins: No, clearly. 'cause she was born in the twenties. No, she was born in

Simone Collins: 1977.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, she what? Wait, really? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:13:00] Well, okay. So anyway, she so first we have never. ever said that IQ is dropping because of racial differences in the country.

We said it's because dumb people are having more kids than smart people. We're very idiocracy about this. Like, it's not less offensive, but just get the offensive thing right. It's not an ethno thing. Then what was the, the other oh, yes, that I said that women shouldn't be allowed to have money.

No, the property. And that was

Simone Collins: based on looking at the results of, I think, Swedish lottery winners and the

Malcolm Collins: entire episode that that's based on. The point of it was that this data should not be taken to mean that women shouldn't be allowed to own property. But that specifically, if you are doing cash handouts, the actual quote line that she took.

Came from a right before that I said, if you are doing government cash handouts intended to increase fertility rates, don't give the money to women. Where she then took that to mean women shouldn't be allowed to own money. The intentionally like this is salon. This is the mainstream [00:14:00] organization intentionally lying to and attempting to manipulate the reader.

And then what was the other point in here? She had three, I remember,

Simone Collins: Own property. Oh, we lambasted programs to reduce racial discrimination. Yes, DEI!

Malcolm Collins: We hate DEI! Everybody hates DEI! What's wrong with you? You're asking me to be anti DEI and being pro racist. DEI is racism. It's a systemic system for discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, and sexual preference.

That's racism!

Simone Collins: Amanda and the cats vehemently disagree with you. Okay, okay. Okay. So what else does she say? Yeah, right. She, she believes the Flynn effect. Quote, you do not want to give money to women. Unquote, Malcolm Collins declared on one podcast. And he specifically,

Malcolm Collins: if you want to increase fertility rates and you're a government, you do not want to give money to women.

What's the full line there. But anyway, continue. [00:15:00]

Simone Collins: She continues. But what's viscerally creepy in the post report is how fixated the couple is on imagining Simone's death and childbirth. Quote, quote, I'm happy to die in labor, she declared dramatically, an especially weird statement because she delivered all four of her children via c section.

Yeah, lady, you know that many layers of you cut open, it's kind of dangerous.

Malcolm Collins: Does she not think that birth is like, I actually am genuinely wondering like, what's her point? Does she not think that birth is risky or does she not think, well, maybe she thinks C

Simone Collins: sections either she acknowledges that C sections are risky and is like, why is she being so blase about the fact that she's doing this risky thing?

Or she thinks that C sections are not risky in which case. She's not aware of what happens in like major surgeries. And there's always some kind of complications. Something you could start hemorrhaging, you know, it's, it's not a huge risk, but it's a risk. And the point that one, I didn't say dramatically, I said, a matter of fact, and two, it was in the context of [00:16:00] us explaining, trying to sort of frame that we, we have values in life and are willing to die for something.

I don't think Amanda Marcotte is willing to die for anything because I don't think that she really has any inherent values aside from Rob, if she has values that are like. Above just her immediate comfort and interests and needs. It would probably be something vaguely tied to negative utilitarianism.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no. No, this is somebody who believes that our government is literally being taken over by Nazis right now. So you can see exactly what she would do if her government was being taken over by Nazis.

Nothing. Which means that she has no value system. She, she just makes

Simone Collins: money from shilling articles about how the government is being taken over money. Well, how

Malcolm Collins: is she going to make any money now that USAID is shut down? We now know that they were funding all this s**t. Like, how is she going to make any money?

How's she going to be? But no, I want to I mean, clearly the salon doesn't have fact checkers anymore, which is nice. You know, just. Get rid of all [00:17:00] that. Times are tough, Malcolm.

Simone Collins: Anyway, she, she talks about you. Malcolm Collins also fantasizes about his currently pregnant wife's death, seemingly gloating that, quote, she's putting her life on the line, unquote.

They deliberately inject unnecessary physical suffering into her pregnancies, including the use of IVF, an incredibly taxing and painful process, for the strict purpose of genetic engineering. Lady, I can't have kids. Naturally. I can't have, I am infertile.

Malcolm Collins: Like, unnecessarily? This, this, you could read our Wikipedia article and know this.

Like, this is not, this does not require much research to know. Did she guess? Like, did she think, Huh, I should probably check if she's infertile. Cause this is going to be really bad if I said that her husband is forcing her to do this. And it turns out that no, her husband is actually undergoing pretty big sacrifices because she's doing this.

And that, how can you, how can you be so delusional to not see when a husband is [00:18:00] like, I appreciate the sacrifice of my wife is making from that statement and instead think that I am like getting like excited about the idea of my wife dying?

I want to be very, very clear here. I do not get excited about the idea of my wife dying only turned on. Um, I'm joking.

We gotta have them, we gotta have them clip that.

Wow, you are just giving people so many beautiful little Breadcrumbs here.

Simone, Simone, Simone. Do not. No, but also future biofuel.

Simone Collins: I'm just also IVF. IVF is not an incredibly taxing and painful process. I repeat, it is not the only time I've cried during IVF and this is true.

So financially IVF is extremely painful is because of the [00:19:00] money. I've, I've cried in the doctor's offices because of the money. Simone,

Malcolm Collins: I've seen those needles you do. The only reason it's not painful for you is because your mind is built like a tank. You're like a, a sidekick that like goes in for me and then beats up an entire room and you're like, that was easy.

These needles, the needle part is like this big to go all the way into the muscle, their intramuscular

Simone Collins: injections. Yeah, you do it

Malcolm Collins: every day. You're for like a month.

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: I think longer

Simone Collins: than a month went on forever. The last time I'm obviously doing it now, but I figured out the trick. And by the way, if you're doing these intramuscular injections, especially if your house is a little bit cold and ours is sit for an hour with the vial in your pocket.

Or in your bra, if you're wearing one to warm it up and you will not have the long term pain. So I used to think that you had to inject yourself and then massage in the oil. And I would still be sore like the entire next day at the [00:20:00] injection site. No, the, the oil just needs to be warm. You need to inject warm oil and just body temperature warms like it makes it so much less uncomfortable.

But to your point about

Malcolm Collins: this hurt for days afterwards, you're doing this for months. You you, you

Simone Collins: go through, yes, but it's yes I do. So she, she writes about this and she says, I'm hold on,

Malcolm Collins: clearly I'm gloating about it. And yes, he says he even brags about her ability

Simone Collins: to withstand pain and gore. It's just an amped up version of the same romanticization of female sacrifice.

It's endemic in conservative circles where what makes women good is how much self subjugation she can endure. No, like what's actually going on between us is we are nerds. Okay. And we did full genomic sequences on nebula genomics and I have to pull up the screenshots. But Malcolm's polygenic score for, for pain tolerance.

Is exceedingly low.

Malcolm Collins: It's like 1 percent and you're just like I flick you and you're like, I've been maimed! No, hold on, [00:21:00] no, so, no, so on, so on, so on, so on, so on. What she's referencing here is in the original piece they got some stuff wrong, I didn't mind, I like the piece. This is the Wall Street Post piece.

It, it mentioned that you were a vegetarian, which you're not, you basically are, but you're not like, Functionally, I don't eat meat. I don't eat meat occasionally. But that you handle the dead animals around the house. Like if you have to kill a chicken or something, like I don't do that. And you were cooking steak for the family and putting like red bloody steak on the table and chopping it up despite being a quote unquote vegetarian.

You were doing it for the guest and your husband. Oh yeah. So yeah, it was probably

Simone Collins: kind of, and so

Malcolm Collins: she's here like, Oh, these conservative men who glorify a woman who can chop up and cook a good steak. I do glorify that. I do. That's hot. Simone. No,

Simone Collins: there were, there were two things. One is we'd received as a very generous birthday gift, a giant, like, giant cut of Wagyu beef.

And I was, at the time we had a journalist visiting, slicing the beef into individual servings that we very carefully wrapped and froze because we couldn't eat it all at [00:22:00] once. We were doing like half a cow this day. Yeah, so there was like, there was a lot of meat on the table. And, and Malcolm was, he's not big on like meat and muscle.

A little aside. When this was happening Torsten, our son was like, what is this? Cause it's this giant, like slab of meat. And I'm like, well, this is, this is the muscle of a cow. So, you know, someone killed a cow, put a hammer in its head and it killed it. And then they cut it into pieces and, and we were gifted this piece and we're going to eat it.

And he's like, mommy, are you going to, are you going to. Eat my meat. like, no, don't eat. You're too

Malcolm Collins: small. You're too small. It's not that you wouldn't eat as a meat. He's just, you gotta, you gotta like the wicked witch you are. He set him up a

Simone Collins: bit first. He was so practical about it. He is like. Oh, like, so I was explaining, like, you know, all of us have muscle, like, this is on all of us, and we eat the muscle of some other animals, and like, it's something you need to be aware of and, because I want our kids to know, you should never eat anything that you wouldn't be willing to [00:23:00] kill, and I just thought that was so cute.

But anyway, so the journalist noted that like Malcolm kind of had no interest in working with raw meat and most people don't have a lot of interest in working with raw meat and then secondarily we're nerds and your polygenic score for pain tolerance is very low and also my polygenic score for I think it's in the 98th percentile like I'm able to tolerate Immense amounts of pain.

And that is a thing that we really appreciate because obviously it's easier to push through hard things.

Malcolm Collins: She'll like take things from the oven without mitts and stuff like that. Pull things out of boiling water. You're causing damage to your hands. Right? Like when I,

Simone Collins: when I, when I hurt myself, like everyone else, it's like.

Band Aids and all and

Malcolm Collins: like, I just take a paper towel and some like tape, some packing tape and I'm like, stop supplementing can keep going

deep gashes too. She'll like come into her room was like paper towel, like tape to her hand, just a flesh wound.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: So yeah, it's again, just [00:24:00] misstated. We're just playful and we appreciate the traits that we have.

She continues. The cons is. Frequently speak at pronatalist events, which also do a poor job of concealing the true bigoted agenda under all this happy baby talk. As Gabby DelVal reported in Politico last spring, this year's needle, this year's NeedleCon, that was actually the last. One that happened in 2023 a mostly male audience, many of whom, quote, are childless themselves, unquote, they speak a big game about creating, quote, a culture in which childbearing is paramount, unquote.

But of course, not for the men who want this change, that women will do most of the work is implicit. Indeed, it is not an unfortunate side effect, but the apparent goal. Now, what's so ironic is one, I mean, Gabby, she's also like Miss. Misstating Gabby DelVal's article to a great extent.

Also, Gabby DelVal's article was intentionally controversial because that drives traffic and we talked with her about it. Like we, we got Thai food together. Gabby DelVal's cool. It's like, this is not antagonistic and she thinks it is, [00:25:00] which is also very ironic. Most of the speakers, I think. Maybe not most.

I feel like at least half of the first natal con were female. Yeah, we had Peachie Keenan. We had Brit Benjamin. We had Diana Fleischman. We, yeah, we had me. There were, there were more women too. It was, it was a great, like,

Malcolm Collins: it was very balanced. But she wasn't there. She's not reporting. She's reporting on the fantasy she has of what the movement is.

Yeah. And just again, we have to take great pleasure in knowing that we're going to replace her. Here's the first

Simone Collins: plug for natal con. You can get 10 percent off if you register with the name Collins or the code Collins. And we'd love to see you. The next natal con is this March in Austin. But, oh my god, everyone's complaining about how it's expensive.

One, venues. Have you, like, organized a conference recently? It's just expensive, but now I wish that, like, instead, the price was double, but that everyone was issued a film grade Handmaid's Tale outfit? Yes!

Malcolm Collins: And we all could go! I wish that [00:26:00] too, now. So amazing, like all the reporters being like, it was like living in Edel doll or whatever that that country is from Handmaid's Tale.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I can't, I can't honestly, like, I don't know any conservatives who've read Handmaid's Tale. Because we're not into

Malcolm Collins: it. You should see our video, by the way, on is Handmaid's Tale actually just a sex thing? Because it is. Because it is. These people are just like those women who ride on horses, like suspiciously long, the women who go to every.

Event dressed up in this. Oh, Mr. Rich man. I hope you don't breed me

Simone Collins: Oh

Malcolm Collins: my god, general

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's it's it's great. It's wonderful. That would just have been high status

Malcolm Collins: woman watch was jealousy. I mean

Simone Collins: Yeah, when it comes to brass tasks, Natalists like Musk seem only interested in raising birth rates in the most inhumane way possible?

By force? Wait, I'm sorry. Let's continue.

Malcolm Collins: You're like it! No, okay, so there's this anime called, Shield hero. And in it I always feel [00:27:00] like you're like my Reptalia where there's this scene where she has like a slave contract with the hero and she is, they're like, oh, we have to free you from this, everyone else.

And she's very incensed that they want to free her from this contract. She's like, no, I really. Light, like, this is what I want. What are you talking about? And she's like, they're like, well, you know, I would never do this. Like, yeah, you never would. You never would take the time to care for someone in this way.

You never would take the time to and they're like yeah, I would. And she goes, okay, basically, then where's your slave? Because there's a lot of women in, in, in difficult scenarios that you could help through this sort of contract and you've chosen not to, which shows that you're not that type of person.

Speaker 3: こ の 卑 怯 者 私 が い つ 助 け て く だ さ い な ん て 頼 み ま し た か な た が ナ オ フ ミ 様 の 何 を 知 っ て る ん で す か な た の 隣 に は 私 で は な い 別 の 奴 隷 が い る は ず で す

Malcolm Collins: So where, where is your wife, Mr. Oh, I would be so good to a woman guy. But of course we know the reality. He's one of 10 guys [00:28:00] financially supporting one woman who they're all sleeping with. I'm saying the guy watching this who's like the far progressive and mad at me. Because they're not going to exist in the future.

We're outbreeding you. We're replacing you. Don't worry about it. We, we will replace you. That's the pronatalist slogan. I got to have that under the conference leg, but we will replace you. I want people to get very scared. and angry. That's the goal here. Continue.

Simone Collins: Right, right. Most inhumane way possible.

Musk loves to bleat lies about how birth control is dangerous. Oh, wait! So, I'm sorry. Not being on birth control is inhumane. That, that, sorry, that, that's, okay. Which is an unsubtle pretext to take it away, perhaps, by Likely Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy, chosen because he puts MAGA ideology before science.

Musk's billionaire buddy Peter Thiel has dumped huge amounts of money into spreading scary disinformation about birth control as well. Vans certainly has no ideas for making motherhood a more appealing choice for women, but instead prefers shaming tactics like name [00:29:00] calling and lectures on quote unquote duty.

And of course, they've all allied GOP that's passing abortion bans as fast as they can. I'm sorry, like Every, every medical intervention, every pill you take has a negative side effect. For example, I take about the same amount of estrogen orally per day that a trans man, what, sorry, no, sorry, that a trans woman takes, a man to woman trans person, right?

What also has happened as a result of that is my testosterone levels have plummeted. There is a cost to this. There's a cost to all sorts of hormonal replacement, including stuff that, that progressives would really support. Birth control does have negative side effects. Some people see their sex drive plummet.

Some people see their moods Go all wonky. Sometimes birth control is really great. It can help with acne, but like, how can she say that it's inhumane for people to question the side effects?

Malcolm Collins: No, no, what she thinks is inhumane is for people to not have sex whenever they feel like it. See our prep episode.[00:30:00]

She, she thinks not having free access to birth control whenever is inhumane because somebody without free access to birth control couldn't have indiscriminate sex, which she believes is a human right. I guarantee you that's what's going through her head.

Simone Collins: Anyway. She writes, the other giveaway is that these natalists don't care one whit about the well being of children after they've served the purpose of sinking a woman's ambitions.

That's why Musk is going so hard after Head Start. But again, when has Musk ever targeted or criticized

Malcolm Collins: Head Start? I sunk your ambitions. You, you, CEO, best selling author, media sensation. Dreams broken. Broken. Broken on my masculinity.

Dashed upon the rocks, the phallic rocks of your masculinity. Oh my god.

Simone Collins: Or why mu it's goon squad are attacking the Department of Education. Or why they're allied with an anti [00:31:00] vaccination activist like Kennedy. Or USAID, whose programs are critical for allowing women in poorer countries to give birth. To safely to healthy babies. Those programs are not critical. No one listens to us.

We should find out

Malcolm Collins: how much USAID gave to S. L. O. D. Now that we know that they gave millions to Politico and the New York Times and AP News. Think of the children.

Simone Collins: Think

Malcolm Collins: of the Catholics. They might have given you might have another reason for protesting. Thou dost protest too much. Oh, level.

Simone Collins: She, she concludes with the utter disregard for what happens to a baby after she's born.

She, of course, is also illustrated. Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: This is like when people call God a woman. I will smack them with like a fish.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just need to have your slapping fish handy.

Malcolm Collins: We were talking about hysteria earlier today. And apparently in ancient Greece, they thought that the woman's uterus, this is what hysteria was, would become dislodged.

And, and, and block their other organs, like their brain and stuff. So like put

Simone Collins: [00:32:00] pressure on other organs and like cause problems. And, and

Malcolm Collins: so the way that you would coax it back is at the bottom entrance to a woman, you would put something that smelled good and around her mouth and nose, you put something that smelled bad.

Kind of scared away. So, that is what this woman needs to relieve herself of her state of hysteria over Trump winning. And if you look at her articles, by the way, it's just Elon, Elon, Elon Trump, Elon, Elon, Elon Trump. And it looks

Simone Collins: like someone who's having a psychotic break. It honestly looks kind of like a schizophrenic having a psychotic break, but I know that that's like a journalist to be.

It's just that they look really similar in some cases, which is,

Malcolm Collins: no, I think, I think, I think she's like genuinely. And it's so funny that for so long, the left thought they could turn Ilan and Trump against each other. We saw this. They thought, I don't think anyone is still harboring this idea anymore. Now they're like Ilan's Hitler, Ilan's the unelected president, Ilan, you know, you see this in all the protests now but the idea that they could turn him and Trump against each other.

Would just like, like a car got hit. They did, they [00:33:00] had no idea what they were getting into with this. And it caused them to, I think, waste a lot of time. While Trump and Elon were eating the zone. And now they are terrified.

Simone Collins: Yeah, anyway utter disregard for what happens to a baby after she is born is also illustrated in the post's profile.

The Collins, the couple rails against car seat laws and day care regulations, basic common sense measures that keep children alive and safe. I'm sorry, lady. In most, in many states, I think probably most in the United States, kids are in car seats until like age 12. It's completely unreasonable at this point.

And I think a lot of people don't realize this because, you know, she is of a generation, as are we, where at like fairly reasonable kid ages, we were using adult seat belts. And just there's been this regulatory creep across all parts of the government that have made things more expensive and cumbersome, including daycare, including car seats.

She's not aware of this. And again, like, this is what happens. We just get angry people talking about issues [00:34:00] that they don't want to go really deep into. We're not. Above that. Okay. She wants

Malcolm Collins: to live in her Hitler fantasy where the government is run by you know, the, the, the Gilead. I dig it. You know what?

Simone Collins: The, the, the record store boyfriend three cat life is a lot more romantic when that's the case. You know, she's like, get that kind of a post apocalyptic feel. I think there's really, there's something in the American id that loves an apocalypse. She gets to be a resistance that doesn't have to do anything except

Malcolm Collins: hiss Dionyx on Blue Sky.

It's very cozy.

Simone Collins: It's very cozy. And she's making money from it. Like, I get the incentive.

Malcolm Collins: She does nothing but spam her articles on her Twitter account.

Simone Collins: That's because she's probably on Blue Sky. And she just goes to Twitter because she has like, I think 80 something thousand followers on it. And that's where she can hopefully get some more views.

Anyway, let's see. Right. Okay. Basic common sense measures that keep kids alive and safe. Needleists claim they want more babies for the long term good of humanity, but that's hard to square with the scorn of any measure that would keep children alive, much less help them [00:35:00] be productive members of society when they're grown.

Again, there is peer reviewed research on car seats as Cause contraception that demonstrates in a compelling way that fewer people are alive today because of car seat regulation. In total, so there are fewer people, basically more people are not being born than there are people who are being saved from hypothetical.

Differences in car seats.

Malcolm Collins: And in this very article, she's railing against technology that saves children's lives. yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, like, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. More productive members of society when they're grown. That's exactly what polygenic selection is meant to optimize for those who have the opportunity to use it.

And we think that, again, like one of the reasons why we use and invested so much of our personal money. In polygenic selection and helping early companies in the space and buying from them is that we think that in the end, it's going to be in the best interest of any government that provides any level, including the United States [00:36:00] of government subsidized health care is going to find it much more cost effective to give free polygenic risk or selection to anyone who wants it because it will create taxpaying citizens that are going more productive and less of a drain on their healthcare systems that they have to fund.

It is a cost effective measure and it also reduces human suffering. So she, who I would assume is a negative utilitarian who cares about the reduction of human suffering, should be all about BGTP and should be encouraging governments to start making it universally available. Because it's really not that expensive.

Malcolm Collins: You're a

Simone Collins: broke religion. That's the thing. Let's see, where was I? When you pay attention to what they do and do not What sorry, when you pay attention to what they do and do not, what they say,

when you pay attention to what they do and do not, what they say, it's clear that pronatalists are anything but. That's weird.

Malcolm Collins: Just changes how it works.

Simone Collins: When you pay attention [00:37:00] to what they do and do not say, it's clear that pernatalists are anything but. It's just an elaborate intellectual rationale for plain old misogyny. Oh, drop that mic. Drop that mic, Marcotte.

Malcolm Collins: I am f*****g misogynist to my wife. Everybody who watches this show knows this.

That's why I have a sword, like Andrew Tate. So that I can force her to listen to me. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but what if, no, my, my, my bow and arrow beats your sword. You target to a greater

Malcolm Collins: distance. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm able to, I'm able to get you first. I think everybody who watches the show knows that I do boss around my wife and I do speak over my wife and I'm obviously an abusive husband who keeps her in chains half the time.

But. I'm gonna say that's a sex thing, but

that's

our particular

sex thing.

It's all consensual, okay? Um, uh, That's, that's, I, okay, so let's be clear. It's not that I don't keep my [00:38:00] wife in chains, or bark orders at her, or tell her what to do, or make her make my food, or do most of the cleaning in the house, or handle our livestock, or Livestock.

You know, it's not that I don't. Force you to do all those things, but I'm a feminist, which means I also force you to earn most of our money. So I think that those two things really balance each other out.

Simone Collins: We're, we're enlightened like that.

Now to start at the beginning of the article with all the ways she tries to twist what the Trump government is doing.

All right, she starts.

Elon Musk's ongoing infiltration style coup of the federal government continues to cause chaos across the country. As Musk seizes executive powers and rejects all congressional authority, it is increasingly clear that Donald Trump is shaping up to be more than the reality TV host in his return to office than actual president.

Last week, Trump pulled back. The across the board [00:39:00] freeze on all federal grants and loans, but despite the despite the alleged unfreezing Reports are streaming in from various states that money for head start has disappeared Forcing some centers to close or lay off staff first. I just want to stop and pause Multiple daycares that we sent our kids to when we still did daycare would just close And stop working at the drop of a hat, like, I can't emphasize the extent to which daycares mostly driven by the terrible daycare regulation in the U.

S. They don't

Malcolm Collins: do this for the people who are on government funding at the daycares. That's a slightly different thing. So

Simone Collins: when it comes to kids being sick, they will always send home the private pay kids and they will keep the government kids because those Yeah, they don't get the government pay if the kid doesn't show up.

However, when we're talking about these general shutdowns, what we also saw at our daycare, we're just like, sorry, we're not operating today because we can't get enough staff. Sorry, we're not operating today because so these [00:40:00] are, these organizations in the U. S. are running on such. Thin margins and are so screwed over partially due to the existence of child care subsidies through programs like head start that this happens all the time anyway.

And now they're acting like it's a result. I mean, I'm sure a lot of it is a result of the sort of, like, starting and stopping of federal grant programs. But this is normal. All right, but you

Malcolm Collins: also were pointing out that the Head Start program really only goes to basically on it. I'm going to get to

Simone Collins: that.

I'm going to get to that in a little bit, but I'm going to continue to go through the article.

Malcolm Collins: I do not read it in a silly voice. That's annoying.

Simone Collins: Well, how else will they know I'm reading hers and not mine? Simone, they will figure it out. She continues. This is likely the doing of Musk, who has been infiltrating with the Treasury Department systems that disperse funds and bragging on X that he has dictator like powers to unilaterally destroy programs he doesn't like.

The targeting of headst By the way, also, Musk has nothing to do with Head Start. He This, this, [00:41:00] this connection she's drawing between Elon Musk and Head Start is completely in her head. And I think this is another thing that I'm seeing a lot across the left. And I'm sure this happened on the right too, but actually not that much from what I remember.

The left is drawing all sorts of connections that aren't there. They've lost their mind.

Malcolm Collins: I don't remember them freaking out when Fauci had basically had the power to lock every American in their house. Like, Oh, these unelected people. How dare they?

Simone Collins: Yeah, anyway she writes the targeting of Head Start, a program that provides early childhood education and support for over 800, 000 children isn't a surprise to those who combed through the Project 2025 handbook.

This blueprint for a second Trump term explicitly calls for the elimination of Head Start, hiding behind false claims that this program is somehow bad for children. But the driving animus the right has long harbored against Head Start was never focused on children who benefit tremendously in both long term measures like increased likelihood to attend college and short term measures like improved self esteem and self discipline.[00:42:00]

No, the program has been targeted by conservatives. because it makes it easier for young mothers to have jobs or go to school, helping women ensure economic independence. Okay. There is so much wrong with this paragraph. That's why I'm like, we have to talk about this. So, okay, first what actually happened with Head Start on January 27th, the office of management and budget, the OMB issued a memo that just paused all federal grants and loans because they're like, this is a mess.

Oh, and this

Malcolm Collins: is where they found that they were giving condoms to 50 million in condoms to God.

Simone Collins: This is a major like anti fraud effort. Okay. So the freeze was quickly rescinded following legal challenges and judicial intervention, but, but confusion caused by the freeze did disrupt some operations for some head start programs.

The fund, the, so Even though apparently there were assurances that Head Start would be exempt, at least 45 programs serving approximately 20, 000 children across 23 states did report difficulties accessing funds. [00:43:00] Difficulties, I'm just imagining like slightly late funds, but again. To my earlier point, because daycares are so poorly operated and a lot of this is the result of adverse incentives and regulation and systems that have been put in place by the government that include programs like Head Start they expressed some difficulties and they, this has led some, although there's no number given, some programs to temporarily close or reduce services, which by the way, again, Every other week in all of our daycare programs that we were in and that we paid through the nose for so whatever impacting families who rely on child care to work or attend school Which yeah child care sucks in the u.

s. And that is just how it is. You don't need the trump administration to to It proved that anyone who was actually getting child care and it seems like a great study,

Malcolm Collins: Fertility roundup for did a great breakdown of this where they showed, and we talk about this in our, like what our latest fertility stats video one, one of the recent ones where a lot of the really high cost of childcare in the U S is, is [00:44:00] shown to be because of the regulations that are put in place by Democrats.

Wait, wait, get to the spicy stuff Simone. Well, no, so yeah, Head Start, this is It doesn't matter.

Simone Collins: Head Start is basically not available to the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans. So this argument that she's making that Head Start helps women achieve economic independence is complete b******t because families must have an income at or below 100 percent of the federal poverty guidelines to be eligible for Head Start.

They, they may accept up to

Malcolm Collins: 10 percent of children from

Simone Collins: family. You must not

Malcolm Collins: have financial independence to be eligible for Head Start.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So basically, as long as you don't have a job, you're eligible. But then as soon as you make money, you're not eligible. So no, I'm sorry. Head Start is actually a disincentive to allow women to work.

So when we're talking about the federal poverty, Line in the United States for a family of one. So if you're like a single mother, that's $15,650 a year.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So if you're earning more than that, you are not eligible for this program.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And if it's just you [00:45:00] and your husband, 21,000, one 50, if it's three people.

26, 650 and four people, 32, 150. So this, these are very, very, very low income levels. I think the median income in the United States is around 60, 000, 62, 65, 000, something like that. The point being is that she's just lying, but continue. I said, yeah, but this is headstart is not. a pronatalist daycare program.

It is a program that gives very, very, very poor people almost a disincentive to work by providing them with daycare on the condition that they continue to stay in poverty. Great. Thanks. Head start. So what did project 2025 actually say about head start? I think that's a really important thing to talk about.

So the the project 2025 mandate for leadership criticizes the program because it is inefficient and it has lack of any measurable long term benefits. So the program's been lying when she was saying it

Malcolm Collins: [00:46:00] had all

Simone Collins: these benefits. Yeah, it's so it has cost over 240 dollars. Billion dollars since it's 240 billion in 1965.

And this is like services, services are expensive. So I get that, but it's failed to demonstrate sustained positive outcomes for children. So, in, in the heritage foundations document, they cite studies that. that suggest any academic or societal benefits derived from Head Start dissipate by the third grade.

So very, very fast. He's like, you know,

Malcolm Collins: get

Simone Collins: to college at higher rates and everything. No. So what they propose instead, and I love this, I love what the Heritage Foundation suggested, is that Head Start be phased out. And replaced with policies that empower parents directly. Specifically, they advocate for direct control over education funding such as through mechanisms like education savings accounts.

So, yes, education savings accounts are basically. Bank accounts that parents should be allowed to use to spend how they see fit. So if I want to hire a nanny [00:47:00] theoretically or an au pair, I could use my education savings account for that or send my kids to private school or send my kid to daycare or homeschool my kid.

Like ideally an education savings account allows me to great sovereignty over my money. Money that I, as a tax dollar, would have paid for Head Start for someone else or public school. Well, Simone,

Malcolm Collins: you've got to keep in mind that when Democrats hear the term poor person, they think minority. You think Biden's sign, you know, this will help both, both the smart kids and the black kids or whatever he said.

Oh, yeah. But, but the the other thing that you've got to remember is they think that minorities are too stupid to even get a government ID. That's why they've been, you know, trying to prevent them from any, any, trying to get people without government IDs to be able to vote because they keep arguing, Oh, no, if you're a minority, it's, it's obvious these laws are racist because we all know.

I mean, we all know that black people are too stupid to get a government [00:48:00] ID, right? Like we, we can all agree on that. Right. And meanwhile, the, the Republicans are here like, well, what are you talking about? Like, we just don't want you doing fraud here. We said none of this racist stuff that you're going on about.

But if they think like that, I think that they are afraid of giving these people access to any money. They're like, no, we need to treat you like animals.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like you, you've no idea to have. You know, you know, you won't be able to spend money responsibly whereas the overarching goal in project 25 here is to decentralize Federal control and prioritize parental decision making

Quote and if head start is not available It just causes panic people worry about their jobs because they can't show up unquote, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer noted on Wednesday, quote, so this is very, very important to the lives of the average daily lives of so many unquote, Oh, of so many, but only, you know, the people who are barely making anything and barely working because that's what you get

Malcolm Collins: jobs that earn less than 15, 000 a year.

[00:49:00] All those full

Simone Collins: time jobs that earn less than 15,

Malcolm Collins: 000 a year.

Simone Collins: Hold on. Let's, let's, let's do this. You have to worry about missing a day out. 15, 650. What, what's the federal minimum wage? Is 7. 25 per hour. That is 15, 000. Okay. So if you work full time at federal minimum wage, you are just a little bit below the poverty level.

Malcolm Collins: So you wouldn't you, you, you wouldn't qualify for this.

No, no, you, you

Simone Collins: would, you would, because you would just, you would just make it, you would just make it. And if you made a tiny, tiny bit more, but this is assuming like you make no tips or you have no additional income. So anyway, yeah, I just, I just wanted to sanity check that. Cause I was like, wait, I don't even know if minimum wage is that low.

Right. Let's continue with the article. Elon Musk is taking a very, a very legal axe to the program. is noteworthy. First off, Elon Musk did not take this axe to head start. She's drawing this complete fantasy. Anyway it's [00:50:00] noteworthy because he frequently pushes pronatalist views, arguing that people should have way more children than they currently do.

Parentheses. He claims he means all people, not just white people, but his alliance with white nationalists should cast doubt on this. End parentheses. So again, drawing. What alliance does he have with white nationalists? Well, she links this and it goes to another salon article that she wrote. Oh, thank you.

Amanda Marotte. Hitler actually had some decent points, unquote. Musk's Covert Coup is guided by internet trolls. Musk's legal government takeover is scary on its own, but the people he's bringing along make it even worse. Oh, know. I want to get to us. Yeah. Okay, fine. We're, we're going to continue with the article.

But of course, anyone who sincerely wanted to increase birth rates would not only protect Head Start, but advocate for dramatically expanding it to become a universal daycare program. Absolutely not. Because that does not provably increase birth rates, and you would know this if you cared about this.

Malcolm Collins: Sweden, you know, Norway, these countries have this stuff [00:51:00] already. They have terrible fertility rates.

Simone Collins: And this is another thing we have to emphasize again. There's a lot of confusion among we'll say lay people between family friendly policies that are like nice, you know, think I would love universal free daycare.

That would be a great thing to be able to fall back on, but it's not going to increase birth rate. So there's a difference between something that would be nice for families and something that will increase fertility rates. And when we talk about perennialist policy, what we mean is evidence based policy that will increase fertility rates.

birth rates, not things that will make parents happy, not things that sound great for parents. It sounded

Malcolm Collins: an awful lot like you just said, I love Hitler.

Simone Collins: I guess I did. That's just so sad. Right. So, oh, but however our, our dear author insists and research on this front is crystal clear women across the socioeconomic spectrum delay.

To having children because they fear correctly that having kids young will harm their financial prospects free universal child care may not in itself address these concerns, [00:52:00] but any program that would work would likely start here. That's interesting. She's, she's basically written in her agenda right there.

She's like, I mean, obviously universal child care won't really solve the problem, but we should have it anyway which is very annoying, she continues. If these, well, more arguments feel like a waste of pixels, it's because they are based on a false assumption that fatalism has anything to do with birth rates.

Instead, fatalism is a thin disguise for a movement whose real goal is to reinstate race and gender hierarchies that elevate white men above everyone else. That much was made clear during the presidential campaign. which featured an endless number of unearthed comments from now Vice President J. D.

Vance, which showed his natalism was most likely just overt misogyny. He yelled about childless cat ladies and declared women shouldn't be able to leave men who He is a childless cat

Malcolm Collins: lady, by the way.

Simone Collins: Yes,

Malcolm Collins: her Twitter account is pictures of cats and yeah,

Simone Collins: Well, they all found that very offensive for some reason.

But again, the point he was [00:53:00] making was it, isn't it kind of weird that we're being governed by people who's. Long term goals and values are not aligned with ours. Hmm. Isn't that maybe a problem? Because as it happens childless people tend to have a very different, you know, view of the long term in reality and, and in different perspectives in terms of their needs than people who are trying to raise small people and to Yes, and

Malcolm Collins: their need, and this is the thing, we know that in 20 or 30 years, all these childless people today Are going to have to become biofuel for our children's cars.

That's what I've learned from their constant panic about Curtis Yarvin saying that one. And I want them to stop saying Curtis Yarvin said that and start saying notable tech elite. Malcolm said this,

Simone Collins: You wish you'd said it. You wish I wish

Malcolm Collins: I had terrified them that they were going to, we were going to turn them into biofuel first because it's good for the environment.

You know that somebody's got to we've got to do something with the [00:54:00] elderly. Anyway, continue

Simone Collins: So just a note actually about his point about marriage He was basically and i'll give you a clip that shows what he actually said. Taking out of context. It sounds bad, but he's pointing out that Making marriage as easy to change as your underwear is going to cause some serious societal problems making switching costs in relationships is So low is one of the key elements.

You keep saying all the time, Malcolm, that has made relationships so weak and so unlikely to form into long term marriages. Which is

Malcolm Collins: dangerous for women, too.

Simone Collins: I think it's more dangerous for women than it is for men. Because women are much more likely to be Shouldered with the sunk costs of a relationship than a man is.

I mean, one body count costs much more to women than men. On average, a man can

Malcolm Collins: just marry a younger woman when, when his wife ages out of being attractive, you know, as soon as you go through menopause and I want more kids, I can just marry a younger [00:55:00] you and leave you with the kids I've already had.

Docs your pay. And it's like, well, I don't make that much. So good luck with that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Jokes on you, Simone. But yeah, I mean, we also personally in, in, in the pragmatist guide to sexuality, we're not super explicit about this, but we have nuanced views on physical abuse and relationships as well. And, and we point out quite fairly that some stances on abuse and relationships are just not very practical that sometimes.

You are way, like literally physically safer and, and, and more healthy and better off in a technically physically abusive marriage than you are on your own. Well, my

Malcolm Collins: favorite stat about physical abuse in relationships, and we have an episode where we go into this in a lot more detail if you want to look up like abuse in relationships and stuff like that is who is, is, is causing, I'm not saying, Perpetrating but causing the abuse because you could say, okay, it's the man or the woman, right?

Yeah to run this statistic what we would need is [00:56:00] Unfortunately something we don't have access to which is well If you wanted to determine if it was a male or the female that led to the abuse You would need a big sample of relationships where you had two males and then a big sample where you had two females Oh, no, we have that Oh, okay. You'll have to go to our episode where we actually do the math on this because this here, you can look at the differential between male male relationships and male female relationships and say, okay, if all of this additional abuse was being instigated by the female in the relationship or created by the female in the relationship You would expect then to see double this rate in female feel, female relationships, and you see even more than double.

So unfortunately you know, I think you make a strong point here, Simone women, and I love how they always clip me out of context, women

Malcolm Collins: this is, this'll be the next one. Serving

Simone Collins: it up, Malcolm. Thanks.

Malcolm Collins: Just got to serve it up. Just got to serve it up.

Simone Collins: Anyway, so anyway, J. D. Vance is simply pointing out that marriage has been [00:57:00] a very weakened institution in the United States, like, from a regulatory standpoint, from a cultural standpoint, and that has not served us well, and I think that that's worthwhile for him to point out,

Malcolm Collins: he

Simone Collins: podcast host who argued That quote, the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female unquote is to help young mothers so men don't have to bother with bedtime and diapers. So that's not true. That was a podcast with Eric Weinstein. They were talking about the grandmother hypothesis and JD Vance commented on how meaningful it was to have.

Elder family support with his newborns and that just got taken out of context by a whole bunch of liberals. And that's very annoying. We're so, I want to, just to recap though.

That was a whole article. Project 2025 is actually extremely reasonable. It's about empowering families and allowing them to make their own choices. What exists where the thing

Malcolm Collins: about, about porn, that was not reasonable.

Simone Collins: Yeah, there's just [00:58:00] this, this thing in the conservative movement where I think they just haven't seen the data.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. By the way, I don't know if you saw this, Simone. Fun side note is yesterday or earlier today Jordan Peterson put out a piece arguing that Canada needed to prove to Alberta that they could do more for it than Trump could.

And this is something that we've hammered on for like the last, like, I don't know, we've like three, not last, but like in the past week, we've mentioned this in like three episodes. So I wonder, I wonder if somebody, a little birdie got that to him. The play for Alberta. It's just common sense.

Simone Collins: It's just common sense.

Let's just make it happen. Well, I guess we don't want Canada, technically speaking. We want Alberta. We want Alberta. Is it resource rich or what? Yeah, Alberta is

Malcolm Collins: their oil country. And the rest of the Canada you know, taxes them, takes all their money uses it to fund all of their other nonsense like Quebec and then blocks them from running oil pipelines, blocks them from doing the full [00:59:00] extraction and everything they need to do and forces all their woke nonsense on them.

There's no reason Alberta, we need to have them do a as I've said, a vote and then move the U. S. military in with the, the help of local governments and then say, you know, what are you going to do about it, Canada? These people don't want to be in your country. We want them we'll, we'll find an amicable solution.

I think offer to pay some token amount

Simone Collins: Louisiana purchase. Tell them they can take

Malcolm Collins: the coast.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I guess we have enough coastal, river y regions. No, no, no, I

Malcolm Collins: mean, they keep their own coast. We'll just take central Canada. Yeah, yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, we'll just

Malcolm Collins: take

Simone Collins: central Canada. Makes Alaska, I mean, it would be nice to kind of complete the set with Alaska.

It feels a little disjointed. Yeah, great!

Malcolm Collins: We can then get the continental United States to be more connected. That's what we should really be aiming for here.

that we'd have to annex a little more than Alberta if we wanted to create a land bridge to Alaska.

Well, it would just be

Simone Collins: much, like, less awkward if We could just say America, you know, not United States of America, like just North America is just [01:00:00] America, you know,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, but the economics of Canada don't work as well if they can't parasitize off of Alberta, which is again why they're, I think, particularly terrified of this because they understand that this is a population that is not interested in their empire, the Trudeau empire anymore.

You know, isn't that, isn't

Simone Collins: the rumor that he's the son of, of. Fidel Castro. Yeah. Yeah. You think?

Malcolm Collins: I've seen some really compelling I mean the trip do line up. He does kind of look like it. Like, I'm gonna say it's not an impossibility in my mind. Would you put it

Simone Collins: at like, I'd put it at 12%.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, I'd put it three, four percent.

Three, four. Hmm. I mean she had, she had a history,

Simone Collins: mother had a history of infidelity, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but that means he could be anyone's kid, you know, I do think, did she sleep with Fidel Castro around a time period where he's one of the candidates to be the father, [01:01:00] probably given the evidence. And wouldn't it be so

Simone Collins: much hotter if they barebacked it?

I mean, and come on, like, I

Malcolm Collins: don't know. There's just But, counter, how many other people did she sleep with on that trip to Cuba? I don't know. I haven't read that much into it. I just looked at like the facial comparisons

Simone Collins: between between Fidel Castro

Malcolm Collins: we have the mic fall in four minutes. So hey, maybe a Vice piece soon! Well, we've done Vice things in the past. Everyone at Vice is so cool, so I Oh yeah, we actually had a whole Vice piece that was supposed to be done on us, it never got made when they were like shut down.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Are they re functional again?

I thought they went out of business.

Simone Collins: Who owns VICE now? Who owns VICE Media? Fortress Investment Group owns VICE Media, which purchased it in 2023 for 350 million. The investment, yeah, that's, yeah, well, good for vice, you know, I feel like their brand is [01:02:00] good. I feel like they're even like their archival content is fantastic.

I, I watch vice documentaries, not infrequently on a regular basis, just because it's a fun and interesting. I like the irreverent journalism. It's, it's great. And like, you know, just everyone who's been on their staff is really cool.

Speaker: In our towers high, where profits gleam, we tech elites have a cunning scheme. On productive folks, your time has passed. We'll turn you into fuel of fire. Just get in line to become biodiesel. Oh, stop crying, you annoying weasel. As laid out by Curtis Yarvin. Handle the old or we'll all be stuck.[01:03:00]

Why waste time on those who can't produce when they can fuel our grand abuse a pipeline from the nursing home to power cities our wicked dome just get in line to become biodiesel stop crying you annoying weasel as laid out by By Curtis Yarvin, handle the old or we'll all be starving.

With every byte and every code, our takeover plan will start. soon explode a world remade in silicon's name where power and greed play their game just shed in line to become biodiesel [01:04:00] oh stop crying you annoying weasel as laid out by curtis yarvin handle the old or we'll all be starving

biodiesel dreams techno feudal might Old folks powering our empire's bright Industries humming, world in our control Evil plans unfolding, heartless and bold So watch us rise in wicked delight As tech elites claim their destined right A biodiesel future, sinister and grand With the world in the palm of our iron hand Mhm.

The song:

In this episode, we delve into Trump's shocking announcement to annex Gaza, aiming to develop it into the new 'Riviera of the Middle East.' We discuss the implications of this move, reactions from political figures like Netanyahu, and the possible strategic thinking behind such an audacious plan. The dialogue explores the dire conditions of Gaza, the historical context, and Trump's unique approach to international diplomacy. Tune in for a detailed analysis of how this plan could reshape Middle Eastern politics and the potential outcomes for both Israelis and Palestinians. Tags: Trump, Gaza, Middle East, Politics, Israel, Palestine, International Relations, Real Estate, Netanyahu, Diplomatic Strategy.

[00:00:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. Hello, Simone.

Malcolm Collins: So I, this, this for me, like waking up in terms of Trump news, I was like, wait, what? Wait, wait, wait. I'm here. Wait, what? Uh, I love the way his young press secretary has announced it.

Speaker 6: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

President Trump is an outside of the box thinker in a visionary leader who solves problems that many others, especially in this city, claim are unsolvable.

Malcolm Collins: So Trump, for those who haven't heard, has decided To announce that the U. S. is going to annex or take over not even like occupy, like he wants to own it and develop it.

Simone Collins: Yes. Gaza. This is a real estate opportunity. It's wonderful.

Malcolm Collins: He he, [00:01:00] you know, I'm just going to go through the headlines from the top of the drudge report the other day because they kind of, shocked me a bit. So we have Trump, Palestinians out of Gaza, US to seize land, Pentagon will enforce.

We will own it, Manic Dawn stuns the Middle East, New Temple on the Mount, and this is one of his staffers who was talking about building a new temple in an older speech. We'll get to this later on. I just can't imagine what it's like to be a leftist strategist right now. Where I think they keep being like, okay, he couldn't possibly do something more insane or bigger, you know, when we were reading just the other day about all the people in the federal government who are like, okay, okay, the D.

E. I. Departments. That's going to be it. That's where we draw the line. Okay. The federal grants programs. Okay. U. S. A. D. That's where we're going to draw the line. Okay the, the, the mass firings, that's where we're going to draw the line. Okay, now, oh God, Elon's [00:02:00] team has read, write access to the internal payment database.

This is definitely where we draw the line and we need to get the media freaked out about this. And now how is the media supposed to talk about anything? When Trump has decided

Simone Collins: that we're going to occupy Gaza? Flood the zone. That, their strategy is totally working.

And to understand how screwed they are, you need to look at their leadership. This is the literal elections of this last week for the DNC leadership positions. The people who, for example, decided in the last election that they weren't going to host a primary and just appoint Kamala.

So did they learn anything from this last election cycle? Let's take a look.

Speaker 2: The Democratic National Committee wishes to acknowledge that we gather together to state our values on lands that have been [00:03:00] stewarded through many centuries by the ancestors and the descendants of tribal nations.

Speaker 3: Hello Democrats. Hey, I am speaking and I would love your attention There is a black woman at this podium and I deserve your attention like the 11 people who went before me.

Yes I am speaking.

Speaker: Fact is the president is Racist. Kamala Harris is a fat b***h. I'm

Speaker 4: Speaking

And I'm a woman.

Woman speaking.

I am speaking.

Simone Collins: I mean, one, I love This [00:04:00] novel still novel feeling of a politician actually delivering on their promises very shortly after beginning their term in office and two, it's really hard for people to React or

Malcolm Collins: stop you when you move so fast I love how even the people who are supposed to be like supporting him like his recent chief of staff there's a picture of her like looking when he's making this announcement like Uh, and then there's, we gotta look at what Netanyahu said afterwards, which I also love, because Netanyahu has proposed nothing so, I don't know if the word we want to use is bold or insane, we'll get to the insanity of this planet in just a second.

Like, I'm a big supporter of Israel. I'm a big supporter of Trump. This is insane. I don't, I don't think he's gonna do it. I don't think he's gonna do it. I think that there's actually a strategy behind this. I don't think he's being like an idiot here. But like if if he intends to do this we need to have a conversation.

Simone Collins: Hold on, wait. No, I I think that whether you care about the well being of Palestinians and whether you care about Israel, like this [00:05:00] is, if I'm thinking about this from an agnostic perspective, I'm like, this sounds Absolutely fantastic. Gaza is a mess. It's, it's not livable there. It's not safe. It's not healthy for people to be there.

If I were there, I would not want to be there and very happily take an offer to be relocated in a newly developed area that plenty of people would be happy to fund. And start a new life. Start fresh. That sounds really, really good. And this area has just become completely toxic. And I love the idea of taking this, this, this zone.

Speaker 24: Who owns Gaza now, and how would the U. S. acquire ownership?

Speaker 6: Well, Gaza is currently run by Iranian backed terrorists in the Middle East, Hamas. Who we all agree, I think everybody in the region agrees that can no longer stand. Just look at the events of October 7th and the events since and the president again is committed to rebuilding the region for all people who want to return to it once it is no longer a demolition site and it's a place where people [00:06:00] can actually live and thrive in harmony.

Speaker 24: The President

Speaker 6: has made it clear that they need to be temporarily relocated out of Gaza for the rebuilding of this effort. Again, it's a demolition site right now. It's not a livable place for any human being. And I think it's actually quite evil to suggest that people should live in such dire conditions.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and

Malcolm Collins: I, I will note here to be on the side of this, that a lot of the people in Gaza's families are recent immigrants to the region. The number one last name in Gaza is an Egyptian last name. El massari el massari, which literally means the egyptian Is the most prevalent surname in gaza? If you're talking about the Second most prominent name in gaza. It's saleh which is Common in Egypt, where 12 percent of people have this surname the, although it is a widely new surname across the, the Arab world but the point being is that, you know, it's horrible to have to leave your, your land, but I also understand what you're saying here is like, it's also horrible what's happening there.

Like, even if I take a completely [00:07:00] neutral standpoint , is Israel just gonna leave this alone? Like, not realistically. Like, especially if you view Israel in incredibly negative terms.

Simone Collins: Just, the area hasn't been well managed. It's not It is not a thriving metropolis.

It wasn't before all of the post October 7th conflicts began, and it hasn't been since. Yeah, if you

Malcolm Collins: view it as an open air prison, then Trump's trying to do a prison break.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I, so I just see this as like, I want people to have nice places to live, and I also But we'll get to why this is.

Malcolm Collins: I hear this narrative, but realistically, I don't think these people are going to end up somewhere better.

And we're going to talk about that in a second. We're going to talk about why they might not move, but I want to talk about what Trump literally said here. Okay. So he says, we'll own it. We're going to take over that piece, develop it, and create thousands and thousands of jobs, and it will be something the entire Middle East can be proud of, Trump said of Gaza, adding that he envisioned many people, [00:08:00] quote, also Palestinians, living in the area, and said it could become the quote unquote Riviera of the Middle East.

Yeah, no, he literally

Simone Collins: said, and I don't want to be cute. I don't want to be wise. I don't want to be cute of the middle East. This could be something that could be so this could be so magnificent. But more importantly than that is that people have been absolutely destroyed that live there.

Now can live in peace in a much better situation. Trump is. In the end, a deeply empathetic person who doesn't want other people to suffer. And he also really likes pretty nice things. And he spent way more of his life as a real estate developer in Tycoon than he spent as president. So like, this is his area of expertise.

Excuse me. I don't know who you are. So hold on. What I was

Malcolm Collins: going to get to, or I've been trying to get to for a bit, is Netanyahu's response as Trump is making this. It's Netanyahu who has never proposed anything so bold. Is there, he goes, this is what they say, Netanyahu called the move something that could quote unquote change history [00:09:00] and said it was a quote unquote worthwhile proposal to explore.

He's a good politician. No, I could just imagine, you know, I don't think Trump like reviewed this with him first. I think like Netanyahu comes to the country, he's like, okay, okay, I'm gonna do a series of meetings. And Trump's like, let's

Simone Collins: all give up! And Netanyahu's like,

Malcolm Collins: wait, what? Uh, That's a worthwhile idea that we should explore fully.

Um, uh, but I, I Literally think that's what happened. I don't think that Trump like, okay, this was Netanyahu at all. Well,

Simone Collins: but that's, so Trump Is a businessman. He thinks on the fly. He uses his intuition and yeah, he is an actual out of the box thinker. I'm sure he's just thinking like, but I love, I love that because there's so much in, in politics and conflict, like.

Very slow, [00:10:00] incremental thought and progress when I would love more people to be asking, why not? Why not? Why not turn Gaza into the Riviera of the Middle East?

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I could get to the reasons, but like, okay, let's talk about where he wants to send these people, right? He said, you have to Jordan. Jordan is definitely not going to take them because the last time Jordan took Palestinian refugees are not even refugees, immigrants.

They tried to take over the country and killed a bunch of people and tried to murder the entire Royal family. So I can understand why they're a little hesitant to pull that game again. I mean, you didn't

Simone Collins: go

Malcolm Collins: to Haiti. They can rebuild.

Simone Collins: So Haiti needs redevelopment capital, right? And there aren't that many people in

Malcolm Collins: Haiti.

Then pay Haiti a stipend for taking

Simone Collins: them. All this room. Just hear me out, okay? Like, so, Haiti, with better governance And better development could be the Dominican Republic, which is a beautiful resort, like they're the same island. You go to one and there are people at like, wonderful, beautiful [00:11:00] resorts, and then you go to the other half and it's all deforested and it's been ruined by poor governance.

Both the Haitians and the people of Gaza if they can learn how to live peacefully together. Well, for

Malcolm Collins: governments and payments to the French for the slaves that they had to pay for and were usurously taxed for by the French. Right, I mean, you sort of have to like, own the debt. Start from a blank

Simone Collins: slate.

Let's blank slate Haiti. But develop it to And Chase,

Malcolm Collins: I think, owns it too.

Simone Collins: Then you can have the Riviera of The Caribbean, and you can have the Riviera

Malcolm Collins: in the Middle East. I don't think Trump is serious about any of this, and I want to get to what I think he's actually doing here. Okay, yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So what are other recent statements Trump has made about the area, okay? So, he said Trump urged Israel to, quote, Get it over with, let's get back to peace, and stop killing people, end quote. Emphasizing the need for a swift conclusion to the conflict, and this was very recently. So relatable. My guess is what is happening [00:12:00] here is, and say it with me because I mentioned it, I said that this is what he was doing with Canada and Mexico and everyone was like, whoa, the trade war, trade war is immediately over.

Mexico has said, okay, we'll put 10, 000 troops on the border to stop fentanyl coming over. Canada appointed a whole czar. To work on the issue of illegal immigration coming in from their border region and to deal with the cartels that had begun to infiltrate their country, arguably to a much lower extent.

It was weird to put Mexico and Canada in the same bucket there, but like, I get it from a Trump battle optics perspective. But what he's doing here is anchoring. He is trying to re anchor expectations. And right now. There is an opportunity for peace in the region, but the opportunity for peace in a region requires both sides feeling like they're giving up a lot from what they would have expected getting.

And the Biden administration had anchored the [00:13:00] Palestinian side of this particular debate to a position that was just completely unrealistic.

Simone Collins: It was impossible. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And it was, it was honestly close to what a real solution will look, but that's a problem because if you anchor them close to a real solution, then they're going to want significantly more than that.

And it's why we haven't seen a resolution to this conflict. And this is a true for the other power players in the region, whether you're talking about Saudi Arabia, which we'll get to in a bit, whether you're talking about you know, the UAE. All of them are like, okay, what can we get this like 25 percent more?

Because this is the way everybody thinks in a negotiation. Then like the default offer on the tape. Right. And the, and, and that was unrealistic because the default offer on the table was the, the, the not release of all the hostages and normalization of relationships, like that's obviously not going to sit with the Israelis.

Right. And you need a deal that works whether or not you. care about the Israelis or the Gazans. You [00:14:00] need a deal that works with both people. And we were nowhere close to such a deal. What Trump did with this and keep in mind, the Israelis have more power right now in regards to this particular conflict.

You can't push them off or kick them off a very easily from this position. You know, any people can be like, well, it's the same with the Gazans. You know, they can. No, I mean, realistically, the Gazans don't have the The the weapons or the aid or the economy to hold on to their land in the way that the Israelis do if I'm just being completely neutral and pragmatic and ruthless here, yeah,

Simone Collins: looking at the resources of both sides.

1

Malcolm Collins: yes, and so what Trump is doing here is he is attempting to reset the conversation in a way where peace can realistically be achieved because now everyone's going to be. Excited about something that isn't this insane idea that trump proposed or seems to be pushing in their minds and one of the things that we also need to keep in mind is like, why don't.

Other Muslim countries, like if they care about them so [00:15:00] much, why don't they take the refugees if they've got this giant border? Because remember, if this is an open air prison, well, one of the walls of that prison is along Egypt, not just along Israel, right? So why has Egypt put a quote unquote wall there to create this prison?

It's because they don't want them in their country. Either. And I think fixing that is honestly, and I think Trump is, is right in this is the easier battle to win than normalization of the relationships with Israel. And I do think that he has a secondary potential plan here. Who knows where he might be expecting Israel to handle this.

And I think another thing he's trying to do is normalize this kind of talk within Israeli politics so that it can begin to, again, get to a realistic deal that's going to work for the people of Israel. And a lot of people in Israeli politics have been you see this position was common on like the extreme right in Israel, but not anywhere in like mainstream politics.

And now that. it's going to become more normalized as in mainstream politics, which again, as Simone [00:16:00] said, if what you care about is peace, you're not going to get a peace that looks anything like what the Biden administration was pushing. That's just completely unrealistic and will lead to war again in the near future.

Simone Collins: is not peace. And anything being suggested now, aside from what Trump is suggesting is.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and I will, there was a really interesting change in statistics before we go into like the, the, because I want to get into a lot of the news and news of this.

Remember how 75 percent of Palestinians backed the October 7th attacks.

This is on December. 2023. Yeah, this number has been dropping precipitously as the war has continued by September 2024. It had dropped to 64%. And in the most recent poll This was September 20 24. So I guess later in September it showed a further decline with only 39% of Gazen still supporting the attack that was dropping from 75%.

Keep in mind that that number now is almost as low as the number of Germans who [00:17:00] supported the Nazis, which was 37.3% compared to 39% of Gazen who support the September. So they're getting back

Simone Collins: to Nazi Germany level and not insane.

Malcolm Collins: Well, not in, yeah, and, and, and, and 57 percent of respondents in Gaza now consider the attack the wrong decision.

Well,

Simone Collins: considering what happened on all sides involved, it seems reasonable. Yeah. But I mean, if anything, it happened, there's no one doing it. It would be wonderful if this could be a forcing function. I mean, I agree with you. I think that what Trump is doing Is one actually being creative, and I think genuinely he would love for this to actually happen, but I think he knows that it's unlikely to actually happen, but he'd love the idea.

He's a real estate developer. Like I said, like he, this is his thing.

Malcolm Collins: He wants to, he wants to find a cheap way to get this land that he's really, I promise you there is a part of his mind. That absolutely is planning to attempt to develop the Riviera of the Middle East in Gaza. Well, but he

Simone Collins: loves doing [00:18:00] that.

Malcolm Collins: It's fun for him. And he's imagining the golf courses. He's imagining the shiny golden towers. Yes, he's no, I do not. I agree

Simone Collins: with you and think that, well, he would love to do that. And he's not joking about being like, this would be awesome. He, he understands that he's moving the Overton window, and this

Malcolm Collins: is, there is a

Simone Collins: pattern that's starting to form, you know, with his threatened tariffs with everything else he threatens something pretty extreme, the other side puffs up their chest as well, and then productive conversations start.

And things deescalate, but also actual change begins to take place. And I think that that's the important thing that we're looking at here is Trump is using a, his out of the box thinking and creativity to spark productive conversation because he. Well, when

Malcolm Collins: you're dealing with strongmen, don't act like a pussy.

Like that's like the number one first rule of dealing with strongmen is don't approach the negotiation table acting like a pussy and trying to be [00:19:00] reconciliatory. Yeah. Or you're not going to get a solution that brings peace to the people of the strongman because you almost always will care more about the wellbeing of the people of the strongman than the strongman will.

And I want to go over to Trump's actual words here. So he said. Why would they want to return? The place has been hell. And then a reporter shouts, Because it's their home, sir. Why would they leave? And then he responds, It's been one of the meanest, toughest places on earth. And right now, I've seen every picture from every angle.

Better than if I were there. And nobody can live there. You can't live there. And then later that day, he said that we should take over and transform it into the Riviera of the Middle East. Now, Egypt, Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Palestinian leaders have recently rejected the idea.

Yeah, rejected the idea, putting it mildly. They point out specifically, That this could lead to security risks and instability, as I have pointed out you know, they're dealing with their own issues and they are right. Letting [00:20:00] Goins into your country leads to you, you know, historically speaking, being targeted to be killed.

I understand why there would be fear around this, and keep in mind that others middle Eastern countries are going to. Put a target on you if you do this as well, because, oh, we like the Gaza people acting as sort of a pawn in this political game and being a thorn in Israel's side,

Simone Collins: and if you

Malcolm Collins: remove the thorn from Israel you know, that scene is, is capitulating to them.

I'd also note here, people are like, why do you you know, not support a hundred billion dollars being given to Africa to lower the amount of aid, but are okay with like the one billion dollars that so far Trump has given Israel in like military aid? And I think I said it was the, are the people of Africa going to have any long term care for America or any appreciation for this, these programs?

No, they'll just say we were trying to scramble their genes or something. That's what a lot of leaders say, or it's poisoned or. You know, you see this repeatedly, like they, we give them like GMO grain and they let it rot because they think it's [00:21:00] gonna, you know, and I get it. Like, why trust the United States on this stuff?

Yeah. Israel can have a different relationship and they will continue to appreciate the United States long into the future in this matter, if you look at it. I

Simone Collins: think a key difference that's deeper in your philosophy here is there's consensual aid versus non consensual aid.

Malcolm Collins: And well, I mean, the people want this aid, but the point being is that the, the people of Israel are high tech and high fertility.

They're the only group on earth that fits that. That means that geopolitically, they are the most important group globally right now to build a long term alliance with if you care about your own people. Well, in

Simone Collins: contrast, a lot of the groups in Africa, for example who are actually the recipients of the aid.

Don't trust it. Never asked for it. Don't want it. And often don't use it. So,

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

And I love when people are like, oh, Jews have a short memory. Oh, Jews, they won't appreciate favors you do or remember slights. Meanwhile, , Jewish religious [00:22:00] texts be like,

Speaker 26: Our enemies cowards, hiding in the deepest, darkest places.

Speaker 27: Fools.

Speaker 26: Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us. Page after page. One wrong put right. But the great book of grudges remains full.

They unironically

Hold a grudge against civilizations that haven't existed for thousands of years.

Malcolm Collins: yeah. And so, Trump's idea. So to get back to the text here, Trump's idea of a U. S. takeover of Gaza Strip comes at a highly sensitive moment and risks overshadowing the U. S. priorities in the Middle East. And now it points out that we're in the middle of a fragile six week ceasefire fire in which mediators are set to begin talks towards [00:23:00] a lasting peace.

The U. S. and Israel were also weighing whether to use force to stop Iran's advancing nuclear program. And hope for a normalization deal for Saudi Arabia into a broader regional alliance. Now Saudi Arabia is like, Oh my God, we cannot normalize anything. If you go ahead with this you know, we viewed Palestinian statehood as being part of the normalization talks.

And I think that again, this is about anchoring. I do not think that this is a position that Trump's going to hold to. And you can even hold me to this. I will say that if Trump actually holds to this position and attempts to send like US troops to Gaza to occupy the region, one, you can say I was foolish.

I didn't understand how Trump thinks or acts. I, was wrong in supporting him in this particular endeavor. And I made a massive miscalculation in understanding Trump. However, I do not think that that's, what's going to happen. I think that this is going to make a deal much more likely. And keep in mind, if a deal [00:24:00] does come.

Whether it's with Saudi Arabia or with, with Gaza, this is a deal that Biden administration was unable to create. Okay, so for all of you who are like, oh, I care about the people of Gaza, like, well, Biden didn't bring them peace. In fact, the war started under his watch. He didn't, he didn't bring Saudi Arabia to the table and the way that Trump had before this.

And I, and I do expect Trump to probably get some sort of deal ironed out with them. So, you know, you can't criticize his negotiating ability if it leads to desired outcomes. And here I'll also note, we have a whole other episode on this, but I just want to briefly note this. It's people like, why do you get into politics?

Why do you support Trump? And it's similar to what I was saying earlier. It's like, as a political commentator, I can be the pussy who says, I don't support anyone. Everyone's a bad guy. I'll turn on anyone the moment I disagree with them. But that's not loyalty. Like if you're like, I support the King so long as he does exactly what I want him to do.

That's not loyalty. You know, I'm telling you the public. I think, and I, you know, said this leading [00:25:00] up to the election. If you elect Trump, I think good things will happen for the world. And that's me like making a political investment, almost like a bet, which should reflect on me if I turn out to have made a wrong investment, if Trump literally attempts to occupy Gaza.

I made a wrong investment. At least by my current understanding, I could turn out that Trump is accurate in his attempt to do this. And it does turn out peaceful. I just do not predict that right now. Like that's another political bet that I'm making that I don't think but I do not think that that's what he plans to do.

Now I would also note here, Israel and Hamas recently agreed for 33 hostages in Gaza for hundreds. Of palestinians you know, it shows how much each side values their individual people and Sorry, I want to say, Yeah, we got the jordan guys saying i'm not going to take people. Oh, I thought this was really interesting So, you know as i've mentioned jordan It's existential to them to take these people, and if they do take these people, they're not going to be kept in good conditions, given what happened the last time Jordan [00:26:00] tried to integrate a population from Gaza.

But, I thought this was really interesting, Jordan, a historic ally of the United States, and one of the largest aid recipients, with a yearly 1. 4 billion aid package, has seemingly been exempted from Trump's 90 day aid freeze.

Simone Collins: Huh, well that's interesting.

Malcolm Collins: And some people are calling this, and specifically some people, French newspapers I read were calling this, economic blackmail to try to force Jordan to take this.

And I'm like, wait, how, how entitled do you have to be to call this blackmail? We are giving them billions of dollars every year, and it's blackmail to say, hey, we might stop giving you that money if you don't try to create peace in your region. Like, how are they creating peace in their region by saying, no, the Gazans need to stay in Gaza even though they recently attacked, you know, Israel and somehow, and, and have Israelis as hostage right now and, and, and create some, how is that supposed to work, right?

That's not [00:27:00] creating peace in the region. That's just insisting on a status quo, which led to the war to begin with. Like, presumably, and I think that this is the thing that you really pushed at the beginning of this. Presumably, nobody wants the previous status quo.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: because

Simone Collins: it

Malcolm Collins: wasn't good for

Simone Collins: anyone.

Malcolm Collins: So if you don't want the previous status quo, other than from the river to the sea, other than getting rid of the Jews, which, you know, some people think is an acceptable response. I do not. What are you gonna do? And I think that Trump has promoted a out there idea, but it's definitely one that starts the conversation, as you could say.

Now I want to get to something else that people were talking about here. Do you have any thoughts on Jordan before I go further?

Simone Collins: I don't know. I, I think when it comes to people who are presently in Gaza who need to be somewhere else, Jordan doesn't seem to be a solution. I don't know where is the solution.

I almost feel like a distributed. [00:28:00] Program.

Malcolm Collins: My plan.

Simone Collins: What was your plan?

Malcolm Collins: All to Germany. Germany will take him two for one. People wonder why I have such hostility to Germany. They they they do outlaw me for existing because my jeans aren't pure enough. My Children's jeans. They hate that we dirty the genetic Cool with science.

And they believe that humans should be kept genetically pure, and they're against all human selection. Ev even for gender, which is something that we perform for religious reasons with all of our kids. So, yeah, I mean, I might not care so much just ship 'em, ship 'em up to Germany.

Simone Collins: I, that's my, I I really want an I and I think Trump does too.

I really think he wants. He wants Palestinians to end up somewhere good and to be living a better life and to be living in good conditions. He wants everyone to be living in good conditions. He wants everything to look good. Germany would take them

Malcolm Collins: and put them in good conditions. It would be fine for like a generation.

For a generation, yeah.

Simone Collins: Germany's not Doing great. Although [00:29:00] yeah, I guess you're up. They've got to

Malcolm Collins: replace all their old people. The population is really young like Germany How are they gonna handle all their retirees

Simone Collins: there? Okay. Well, maybe maybe German.

Malcolm Collins: I love your like no, but okay So realistically, where do you move them?

Speaker 28: Just get in line to become biodiesel, Oh, stop crying, you annoying weasel. As laid out by Curtis Yarvin, Handle the old or we'll all be starving. I've

solved the climate crisis here With calculations crystal clear The efficiency is through the roof Though some might call my methods uncouth

Malcolm Collins: I think Haiti is actually an interesting idea If you do that along with some Haiti, we're

Simone Collins: like a sort of blank slate. We are going to make this one of [00:30:00] the I know we don't have control over Haiti. I get that, people. I know Haiti is not part of the United States, but let's just say Haiti, like, makes a city state that Outsiders with really innovative work

Malcolm Collins: with Haiti.

There's tons

Simone Collins: of outside investment. And the one condition is that in this new hugely invested in city state, Haitians need to be given you know, a great place to live as do refugees from Gaza. And then they are the workers that make up. The purpose of this new

Malcolm Collins: you commit to funding. You commit to funding.

So first of all, you don't have the U. S. Fund. This you have Israel fund. This is real pays Haiti to set this up. Israel pays to Haiti to make this happen. And then you work with Middle Eastern powers or you have Israel pay Middle Eastern powers to set up a permanent military presence in Haiti to stop the, because right now, Haiti is just a nightmarish place to be living,

To, to [00:31:00] try to be entirely

Simone Collins: rebuilt and entirely we governed what's the name of the person leading it right now?

Malcolm Collins: Barbecue. Yeah. But hold on. I want to talk about this, this accusation that the judge administer report, which I mentioned earlier was saying Trump's nominee for Pentagon chief suggests new temple could be built on temple Mount. So what he said actually was there's no reason why the miracle of a reestablishment of the temple on the temple Mount is not possible.

He said, I don't know how it would happen. You don't know how it would happen, but I know that it could happen. He added. So this is like an out there saying he's not really pushing for this. I'd also note here where I was talking about the Elon team and like them wanting to be freaking out about this, but they're so focused on Gaza right now.

Yeah. So a quote from that recently was two of these sources say that. Eliza's privileges include the ability to not just read, but also write code on two of the most sensitive systems in the U. S. Government, the payment automation system, Pam and the security [00:32:00] payment system. S. P. S. At the Bureau of Financial Services.

B. F. S. Housed on top secret mainframes. These systems control on a granular level. The government payments and in their totality amount to more than a Fifth of the U. S. Economy.

Simone Collins: I mean, I'm glad when I saw when I saw that he's able to that he's actually making changes to this.

He's making like a major changes. And when is the last time that you've interacted with the government website or piece of government tech? It is old. It is very poorly built. It's built by RFP in most cases. It's, it is just like really, really, really not well.

Malcolm Collins: And everyone's like panicking. Cause they're like, nobody knows how to program this.

Like, it's not just, you need to be a cobalt engineer, a cobalt engineer who has experience with these old government systems. And you got, you know, like we, we mentioned on the last episode of somebody was like an experience of like, undeciphering, like. Greek scrolls that had been burned [00:33:00] in a fire in Pompeii.

Yeah, can you imagine a better person? Yeah, trying to decipher these old systems, but this idea of what is even more horrifying than what Elon's team is doing is this idea of just letting everyone who knows how to program these systems die and hope that they like stay operational. It reminds me of one of those scifi's where they're like worshiping some old technology that no one knows how to use.

That makes their food, or something. If we now are at the generation where we can fix this, before we end up worshiping a technology that no one knows how to use. Maybe what they're doing is the right thing to be doing, even if it breaks some things temporarily?

Simone Collins: It is wonderful. It is absolutely wonderful.

But,

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I've tried to be as, oh, anyway, you were saying something? No, no, no, go ahead. Well, no, people love to hear your thoughts. I want to hear more of your thoughts.

Simone Collins: I think you aren't even getting, giving the Trump administration enough credit for, for what they're doing and for being, no, no, no, but [00:34:00] like being violently creative is a really good idea.

And I think it's one of the reasons why even in his first administration, even when he tried to play nice and play along with everyone else. Trump still did so well with foreign policy because he just walked into rooms. It was like, Hey, let's solve this problem. When before it was turning Gaza into a golf course, it was kind of like dating in Japan versus like dating in.

I don't know the 1950s United States where like in Japan, you know, you have to have your friends talk to each other and then they like, maybe, you know, they, they come back to you and maybe you'll all go on a group date together. But like, it's not really clear you're on a date. And all these things have to happen and kind of nothing really gets done.

Versus in the U S like in the 1950s ish, at least among some mainstream cultures, it was just like, Hey, you know, can I take you out to dinner? You know, can, can we just, and just like, Oh, they, they got things done and then they got married and they had kids and they, they did things with their lives. And [00:35:00] that's what Trump does.

And I got him in a lot of trouble in the first administration because he kept saying stuff really directly and trying to solve problems. And people actively tried to stymie him. What we're seeing now is he's proposing things. Except this time he's gutted out a lot of the infrastructure that used to just stop this from happening.

I, I think that there's a lot to be said for James. Oh, you bet your dad would

Malcolm Collins: be funding stuff to try to talk about how bad this is. Anyway, continue.

Simone Collins: I mean, but probably, there's just a whole lot that could probably just be solved with a, a very, very little money and with very, very little time without the bureaucratic tumors that have formed around government over the past 200 years.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, Simone, I don't know if you, if you saw this, by the way, with the USAID story we did, where we talked about someone we know who was creating reports that no one was reading. After we did this, we had multiple friends, none [00:36:00] of them, the person you were talking about, reach out to us and say, why did you like talk about me?

And we were like, Actually, I had no idea you did that for USAID. Is this like a common thing among our friend group, like writing reports for USAID that no one ever is going to read? Yeah, that actually,

Simone Collins: that, that really surprised me. Yeah. Yeah, there, yeah. I was like, you know, we never

Malcolm Collins: talked to you about your job.

Like, is this, is this that common? I love that this is like a fear that like so many people had. It's like,

Simone Collins: well, yeah, that, that is interesting. Yeah. That like, they would think that because. All of the people that reached out, we hadn't even talked about them, I think, ever working at USAID. Yeah, but now I know there's

Malcolm Collins: this constant fear of maybe everyone who's ever touched USAID, that I did stuff that I know made absolutely no difference and was paid a lot of money for it.

Simone Collins: Yeah, the realization of like, no, you don't talk about it. Don't mention it. It's like that bit with the husband who's like, Listen, I'm afraid to like mention it, but there's this, this fairy that just cleans up at night [00:37:00] and I just don't, I don't want to jinx it, you know, like the money

Malcolm Collins: fairy just comes to

Simone Collins: me.

I just, yeah, I just, I leave the socks on the floor and in the morning they're up and like with USA, it's like, I don't want to jinx it, but there's this organization of the U S government reports that no

Malcolm Collins: one reads and they

Simone Collins: just like research stuff that you're interested in and like write up your, you know, interest report and.

And

if you're part

Malcolm Collins: of the Democratic apparatus, the part of the deep state, you get the no, but I, I, I think that to the issue in Gaza, here is my larger. If you want to say, why isn't Trump doing things the way that the Biden administration was doing things? They quote unquote, normal way, the quote unquote approved way, because it wasn't getting them anywhere.

The, the best case scenario for what Biden was unable to even achieve was a normalization of the previous status quo, which everyone agreed was horrible.

Simone Collins: Well, and how do people think [00:38:00] diplomacy used to work? I mean, it was Benjamin Franklin and John Adams just hanging out in Versailles getting drunk with the royal court being like, Hey guys, maybe let's let's talk about something here.

What Trump was doing is what our founding fathers

Malcolm Collins: did. Why are they so mad at Trump for, for, for doing something other than what Biden did and what Biden was doing wasn't working and the best case outcome was a normalization of the previous status quo.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Why is it that considered like the gold standard here and Trump is considered the crazy person.

And

Simone Collins: why are people willing to accept any proposed solution that allows for the continuation of humanitarian crises? I am super not okay with what's happening on either side. What happened on October 7th was. Unspeakably horrible and what has happened to people in Gaza in Palestine is unspeakably horrible.

I mean, Trump literally looks at the pictures and the videos, parts of, of Gaza and is like, it's, it's a living hell and no one can live here. [00:39:00] And guess what? Actually, people are living there. And he can't even imagine this is like, to him, it's, it's. It's just pure rubble, it's unlivable, it's impossible, and I, I agree this is not tolerable and it needs to be fixed and he cares about fixing things.

He really, really does.

Malcolm Collins: And so, I think that as crazy as this sounds, I do hope it will move us towards the right outcome. But again, here is me making like a political or future bet. I think Trump will find solutions in the region that Biden was unable to find because he is willing to talk and do things like this.

And I could be wrong about that and it could escalate and get worse. Because of Trump. And if I am wrong, then here you look, I was wrong about this. This could be a long game

Simone Collins: thing. This could be just like, wait a little longer for demographic collapse to play out and America will just demographic collapse won't play out in

Malcolm Collins: Gaza.

Simone Collins: No, I, I get that. But I'm, I'm thinking about other territories that we've talked about [00:40:00] taking. You know, America will just, basically, Panama will beg America to Well, no, with

Malcolm Collins: Gaza, the goal is don't interfere, don't get involved, let Israel handle it, reset the Overton window. That's what he's doing. I get that, but I

Simone Collins: also, I'm also kind of like, well, I guess colonies never really worked that well.

I guess if you were French, if you were British, they worked out pretty well, actually. But part of me imagines a post International trade collapse as described by Peter Zeihan and the end of the world is just the beginning, you know, like basically world trade kind of stops working because America stops policing the seas in that kind of world.

I could see countries being like, you know what, I would love to be an American protectorate because that's the only way I'm going to have enough trade to support my economy. And like, keep the lights on for my people.

Malcolm Collins: So I can totally see that. Yeah, I can totally see that. And what I'm also [00:41:00] thinking here is,

Simone Collins: is this Trump expansionism, this, this renewed manifest testing is kind of something that like, it's just a matter of time.

Just wait, they will come to you. You don't even have to worry about it. But Trump in a way is already sort of starting the process by suggesting things like this in the first place. So, yeah, I guess there's multiple ways in which the Overton window is being shifted. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And when he starts wasting money on stuff like this, that's when I'm going to get upset.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Beyond

Malcolm Collins: the existing and, and, and, and, and pre laid out the payments to Israel by Biden administration or I should say the

Simone Collins: bad deal. He didn't come on.

Malcolm Collins: He hates it. The point I'm making is I'm saying when extra money starts being spent, that's when I get mad beyond what Kamala's administration, because let's be honest, Biden wasn't really running anything anymore, was already paying out to Israel in the region you know, at least 50 [00:42:00] million for condoms in, in Gaza Trump's seeming is very

Simone Collins: consistent is, and this is true.

Like in his real estate history as well, you know, with his use of debt is. I'm going to build this big, beautiful thing, and someone else is going to pay for it. And sometimes that's a lender, or sometimes it's a beautiful model, and Mexico's going to you

Malcolm Collins: think he's going to end up getting roped into, to Gaza?

Do you think he's going to end up getting roped into, like, spending a bunch of money and handling Gaza? No, I

Simone Collins: don't. No, because he hates that. He doesn't want To be on the hook to spend for anything

Malcolm Collins: that's not the way the wall the first time. No,

Simone Collins: it's yeah. Well, yeah, that that, but I mean, I don't think in the end it was who's paying for the wall.

That was a big problem. It was just a whole bunch of bureaucratic morass that slowed him down and made everything way more expensive than it should have been.

Malcolm Collins: Don't build it until they pay for it. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yes, yes, but I mean, he's come on your first time around being president, especially with a very hostile

Malcolm Collins: world.

All right, Simone, very spicy conversation. We're definitely going [00:43:00] to get in trouble for this 1. I've tried to be way less opinionated than my other talks about Israel on this 1. you know, we're. We're trying to say, you know, whatever side you support, you've got to be realistic. We're not going to get Israel out of Israel, right?

So, you need a solution that doesn't involve killing all the Jews. Like I understand that that's like somehow like the default progressive response. Well, could we could kill all the Jews? It's like, well, maybe um, or we could make all of the Jews move. And it's like, well, they have a lot more guns. I think that that.

Might not be a realistic solution. So let's try to fix things for the people of Gaza right now. Okay.

But anyway, love you to death the mom,

Simone Collins: love you too.

Speaker 31: In Gaza's land where palm trees sway, Trump's got a plan to save the day. With golden towers touching skies, A billionaire's paradise does [00:44:00] arise. Gaza's the new Riviera, oh, oh, what a sight. Gold towers shining day and night. Golf courses stretching far and wide. Trump's dream land by the sea. Seaside, the beaches glow with golden sand, the finest golf course in the land.

Caddies and suits with perfect flair, all par for the course in luxury's lair. Gaza's the new Riviera, oh what a sight. Gold towers shining, baby. The night stretching by the seaside, [00:45:00] a five star hotel where camels roam with golden chandeliers in every home piece talks on the 18 hole diplomacy with the golfing.

Oh, what a sight. Gold towers shining day and night. Golf courses stretching far and wide. Trump's dreamland by the seaside. So here's to Gaza, a brand new face. In Trump's world where golden dreams blaze. A Riviera shining bright. A site to see where golf and grandeur make [00:46:00] history.

In this episode, we delve into the unexpected resurgence of Fed News on Reddit. Once thought to be inactive, the subreddit is now bustling with federal employees voicing their concerns and resistance against the Trump administration's policies. We explore viral posts and comments that reveal the extreme measures some government workers are willing to take, the ongoing discussions about the inefficacy and political biases within federal agencies, and the implications for Elon Musk's involvement in governmental reform. This episode uncovers a passionate, sometimes incendiary, debate about the future and integrity of America's bureaucratic system.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I'm so excited to be speaking with you today because I have received so many suggestions from our listeners to visit Fed News on Reddit, which we had previously talked about being basically dead. But I guess dead with the caveat that it was mostly government workers who were posting on it.

So

Malcolm Collins: I guess it's not dead when it specifically means Reddit being dead, not Fed News being dead. Yeah. And there was a great graph I saw of our Fed news on Reddit. And then it looked at work hours, like Fed work hours. And basically people are only on our Fed news during government work hours.

Whoops. But I want to talk about what they're talking about. I want to show, you know, how extreme Reddit has gone, how extreme parts of the federal government has gone. I showed you one thing recently, the hour parks, which has changed their sign to like a, a handheld up fist. I don't know. All U. S.

National Park Service and it has on the website, ourparks. org, a message for President Trump. , you've [00:01:00] previously shut down our social media use and eroded environmental protections, but you can't silence our collective voice.

Our parks is a stand to safeguard our environment and prevent four more years of destruction. Join us to protect our national parks for future generations. Sign the pledge now. This is a great list for who to fire, Elon, by the way. Good list.

Oh my gosh. I'm so glad they're putting this together for us.

By the way, if you're wondering what this organization is, this is a group of federal parks employees that specifically got together to oppose the elected will of the people during the first Trump administration, , and now is trying to redouble their efforts and was in Reddit as seen as sort of a champion.

They're like, oh, there was a top post recently about how all parks employees are going to stop Trump. , and if you're wondering who's funding this stuff, , it's being funded. To, , the tune of a hundred million dollars by the Lilly Endowment, Inc. That's the Eli Lilly Foundation's that is supposed to be giving money to, , religious, specifically Christian [00:02:00] focused issues and education focused issues.

But, , nope, they've been taken over by far leftists. And this is what we repeatedly see of, , Christian non profit institutions that were set up in the past.

And, and if you're like, oh, come on, you shouldn't be that mean to like. The people who are hanging out on Reddit. So I go to Reddit and the top post for me, the top post which is not under fed news,

Simone Collins: just on the homepage, right?

Malcolm Collins: On the homepage

Note, it doesn't have that many upvotes, but it must have gotten a number of them very quickly to shoot it to the top. Also, if you check Reddit today versus Reddit of the past, top posts do not have as many upvotes as they used to. The site is not used as much, even though its numbers would imply that it is.

I have to assume they're fed bots. See our other episode on this.

is six random young people working for Elon.

25, 22, 19, 21 with just. gross mischaracterizations of them posted based on the original strong, bad sort of meme from Homestar Runner.

Speaker: [00:03:00] Team Girl Squad! Cheerleader! So and so! What's a face! The ugly one! Hey, guys! Let's go get ready to look so good! Work, work, work!

Malcolm Collins: So they have the Jesus one, age 25, the lactose intolerant one, age 22, the chronic masturbator, age 19, the murderer, age 23, the date grapist, age 24, and the serious one, age 21.

By the way, the one who, who looks a little brown, guess what they named him? The serious one. Right. The actors tellers one is the Asian one, but then I went to it to see what the most like upvoted things were.

And the kid here, who they doxed and listed as a murderer in this chart. , let's see the type of 20 year old who Elon is finding to do this stuff.

I think when you learn who these people really are, you'll understand why they're so terrified of it.

Speaker 7: One day I was just [00:04:00] listening to a podcast back in March. It was with Nat Friedman. He just kind of got on the podcast, explained like, there are these burnt up scrolls that were buried in the Pompeii eruption.

No one knows how to read them. But some professors have created CT scans of these scrolls and they uploaded the data on the internet as a competition to see who could find writing inside of these scrolls. And when I heard that, I was just immediately like, oh my goodness, this is such a cool project. I have to work on this.

I just went home from work that day at the end of the day and I've been working on it evenings and weekends ever since. I run most of the things from my laptop. It's just a normal Macbook, don't worry. But then I've just got like five surplus computers in here. Um, this is what I do most of my work from.

I just spend hours upon hours staring at flattened pieces of the scroll like this, trying to find these patterns which are Um, part of the writing. At the start of the challenge, we had not been able to find any writing at all within these scrolls. There are hundreds of these scrolls that are from the mansion, we've scanned a couple of them, and no one had been able to find [00:05:00] any writing in them using these methods.

Late one Saturday night, I was sitting at a party at a friend's house in Omaha, and I get a text from another person on the challenge team. And he says, Hey, I've just uploaded this new kind of piece of the, of the scroll. You should take a look at it. I remotely accessed my computer. I type into it like, please run the algorithm on this new piece of scroll.

And then I just kind of started. I pull out my phone again, just nonchalantly like, Hey, I wonder how that went. And there are three Greek letters on the screen. Letters I'd never seen before. It was, um, really cool, because it's like, oh my goodness, like, we actually detected new writing in the scrolls using AI.

That was the moment I realized, like, this is actually going to work. Like, we were probably going to read the scrolls. And I completely freaked out. My friends were there, and I was cheering, jumping up and down, you know, screaming, crying, all the stuff. Now, we're reading entire paragraphs from the Scrolls, and hopefully we'll be able to read the entire book, and read the hundreds of other books that were buried in this condition as well.

Malcolm Collins: The entire thing was shut down, couldn't see any comments, and it turned out the most upvoted comment on it when I was on it was a nine negative down vote one.

Why was [00:06:00] this a top comment? I don't know. Reddit is jank these days. No, I didn't accidentally have my filter set to most controversial.

And it was somebody saying, while this entire situation is effed, this post is still just blatant slander. They're basically kids and you call them quote unquote murderers and quote unquote date grapists. Really? And then under that people are saying, well, I agree with you to some extent. I don't think, quote, they're basically kids, end quote, is a valid excuse given their current unearned position of power in the federal government.

Actually, what do you think any federal government employee is? Unearned a position of power. And what, what

Simone Collins: is it? Well, I don't. So what I learned, and I mean, you, you spent time living and interning at least in DC and I spent time living and schooling and working in DC government jobs, I think when people work for the federal government, they get a very different understanding of what earning means because there are all these like.

Levels and codes and certifications and then

Malcolm Collins: MLM. [00:07:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah, like after a certain number of years and you classify for this tier and this level and it's all extremely complicated and none of it is

Malcolm Collins: based on your competency or how well I think

Simone Collins: that they have. I mean, once you spend enough time inside a cult, you normalize the cult activities.

I think what's going on is they're like, well, I earned my place because I am now. I sat at an office on reddit for x and orange level tier five, you know clearance number Three eight five h y and therefore i've earned my position and it's I mean, it is their reality. How can you question that? I mean, and there are people that we know and love who work for the federal government.

Like, I'm not saying that everyone who works for the federal government is completely delusional. Most people aren't. Most people are really reasonable. But I do think that there are some people who

Malcolm Collins: hold mean, I think you might be being a little too generous. Let's go to some of the other comments here.

And they go, but are there any basis to the claims in the pick? They can be people doing Elon's bidding, which is illegal, but also [00:08:00] not the things pointed out above unless some facts back it up.

And then they say, edit, downvoted by people playing right into the hands of the people that will ignore everything you say because you can't stay on topic without childish BS, but all they are is childish BS. An upvote here is somebody with the black person emoji, thumbs up. Next one is somebody saying, F them.

They'll be tried as adults in any court. If they had darker skin, they'd be called thugs, and Trump would take them out and execute them. This is what they really think is happening, by the way. They chose to join the coup. F them in association. And then the next one is old enough to commit the crimes old enough to be called names.

So, you know, the, the, the mindset of these people is extreme. I was in looking at like, okay, what's being said in our fed news. One of the top posts was C SPAN is taking calls from federal employees right now called, and then they have the number. And they go, they are currently talking about a certain billionaires meddling in the government.

Oh, you [00:09:00] didn't care when all those other billionaires, because you know, Kamala did raise three times the amount Trump raised. Yeah. Like really? Where was the

Simone Collins: money

Malcolm Collins: people? Where was the money? It's not like Bill Gates and stuff. Oh, they don't care when it's their billionaires. But anyway, they, the, the top comment here I love is do not call during your duty hours.

Because apparently they know that, that Fed employees wouldn't even think to be like, Oh yeah, I probably shouldn't. Go and the government's paying me to do something else. And recently was the what's the department that drums that that elon's been shutting down gay elon, by the way you usa is

Simone Collins: what he has like almost completely right. So one of the areas where there's a lot of attack taking place is Elon is 100 percent going hard on USAID, which allegedly gives a lot of international aid. But I remember having conversations with people who worked at USAID.

As, as federal employees, we're saying like eight, eight, more than eight years ago now, so like, not like this is anything new, just like this was just how [00:10:00] it was saying, yeah, you know, like I fly out and we go to these conferences and, you know, I'll work for weeks on a report and like, no one really reads it.

It doesn't do anything, but I do really enjoy the work. And. I remember thinking that and being like, wait, but you're not frustrated. And, and this person really just did just, you know, enjoy the work, enjoy the research. So it was kind of just cool to be paid for it. Even if it wasn't making any difference in the world or like being utilized by the people who are receiving it.

And I, I only just put two and two together when Elon Musk went hard on. The actual department of like, wait, these are federal tax dollars being used to pay for a bunch of reports and people flying out to conferences and meetings to talk about a whole lot of change. That's never going to happen. Like, yeah, this is a very egregious waste of tax dollar money.

And I feel conflicted because I. really respect the person who had told me this. And [00:11:00] I, although I also remember feeling really conflicted when this person said that to me, because I was like, wait, but you're so talented and you're so smart. Your, your work could actually make a difference somewhere.

Are you sure that you want to work for the federal government and do this work that no one's going to pay attention to or listen or heed? It, it, it is kind of, yeah, I don't know, it feels almost criminal. It's drawing talented players out of the U. S. economy. Yeah, it's like, it's like the worst version of an IQ shredder.

And, and I think one of the reasons this person preferred it was because It was very stable work. It, there was very low change. Great benefits. You know, it was a comfortable job. It's not like doing the same kind of work in academia or something where things could be a lot more competitive, resources are dwindling, etc.

It's really political. I mean, it was political where she worked as well. But anyway, I just, I feel so conflicted about it now, but I'm also like. Man, but like eight years ago, I was hearing about basically just money and time being wasted in this entire department, and it's weird to hear it being [00:12:00] attacked now.

I'll, I'll, I'll pivot a little bit to just like what's going, what's going on in Fed news, which many of our viewers are already well aware. But I think one of my favorite things is I look at the theme. That if you go, for example, to top this month and you sort of see the initial reactions to everything that's happening, a really big theme is.

Remember the oath, hold the line, hold the line. Like this is being repeated across many posts. One, one person made an illustration that I'll share with you. Of like a crybaby Trump in a diaper saying, gimme. In front of a line of federal workers that is extremely DEI looking because they're like intentionally people of all colors of the rainbow.

And you got to share this

Malcolm Collins: so our viewers can see it. And

Simone Collins: there's, there's a person in a wheelchair. So, you know, that like, they're all about the diversity.

And it's, it's actually interesting to see. What this particular redditor decided to represent as the federal government being the CBC, [00:13:00] Medicare, the EPA, U. S. mail, education, social security, freedom, democracy, and the FDA.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and they're BIPOC.

Simone Collins: No, they're not all BIPOC. There's plenty of plausibly white people there.

Oh, I love the wheelchair guy. One person with microcephaly, clearly right, right, right under the FDA is a person suffering from microcephaly. So we've got disability, We've got different ethnicities. We've got the wheelchair. Wait, do you think

Malcolm Collins: that that's what it is? Microcephaly or they're just a bad drawer?

Simone Collins: Let's be nice and charitable to them and assume that it's someone with microcephaly working for the federal government. Malcolm, it happens. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So I love so something I learned about really interesting today. So when he's taking apart this department, Elon, right? Everyone's freaking out the USA department.

He's like, okay, when I got to this department, I thought it was like, An apple was a worm in it and what it turned out was just like a big ball of worms.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because his, his big thing is focus is on, let's just go after overpayments and payments for stuff that [00:14:00] isn't doing anything. And I think that the bigger issue is he's like, wait, you don't even give out that much money at the thing.

They really don't.

Malcolm Collins: It looks like they might be taking more than the CIA. I think it's 17 billion a year or something. That is mind blowing. I did not know that. I'm going to do it. Yeah. And if you look at this stuff that they are putting money into, you know, Brill Crystal, that guy who handled Trump sorry, hassled Trump forever and made up this Russia collusion story.

It was like the core person pushing it and his org was the core org pushing it. They were paid. By U. S. D. A. D. So they were funded. All of that Russian collusion stuff was funded by this organ. Trump didn't even shut them down in his first administration. It was created by an executive order. So there's no reason for it to even exist.

And the guy who did all of that, he's still on their payroll right now. Oh,

Simone Collins: well,

Malcolm Collins: you know, it's hard to fire federal employees.

For more color on this, , Bill Kristol founded the DDT, or the, , Defending Democracy Together Foundation. , this played a [00:15:00] pivotal role in amplifying concerns about Russian interference in the 2016 election. This organization received a hefty donation from,

Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors, or PA, a donor advised fund, which received 38 million from USAID. , now some will claim, well, you know, it's not for certain that any of that money went to them, because a portion of it, about half of it, was earmarked. So 20 million was earmarked for a media initiative in South Africa.

However, the rest of it Not earmarked. So, it could have gone to him. , considering that, , his organization did things like a 1 million ad buy trying to

Legitimize.

the Mueller investigation and a 35 million, , DDT funded 2020 initiative designed to

Try to draw a connection between Trump and Russia.

, this was called Republican Voters Against Trump, RVAT.

Quick side note here, but with the shutdown of USAID on our Discord, somebody was complaining about, Oh, now this [00:16:00] program that kept African kids from getting aid is being shut down. So I look at the program. We spent over a hundred billion dollars on this. This is kids in another country. We've got plenty of kids suffering in the United States right here.

And these kids who we're saving, are they even gonna care? Are they even gonna have an appreciation for the United States after this? No, why should we be sacrificing for them? It's not the US's job to be the world police. I thought the rest of the world wanted us to stop that.

It's not our job to be the world's social security system. It's not our job to be the world's Medicare system. If you want to do that, you can do that through personal donations rather than forcing the US taxpayer to do it.

It's oh so easy to be a philanthropist when it's not your own money that you're donating. But there is no morality in being a philanthropist when it's not your own money that you're donating.

You're just taking money from struggling children in the United States and giving it to struggling children in another location.

Speaker 5: want [00:17:00] more? I've got more. No, . I mean, I have a lot more. You're alright. A

Speaker 6: lot more!

Speaker 4: Uh, hey. So, I'm kinda underwater. Is there any way you could help me and my family get out?

Speaker 5: Oh, I'm poor! I'm so poor! I just couldn't possibly afford it. Dad, are they gonna help us?

Speaker 6: Too poor?

Speaker 5: In fact, if you could lend me some money, arrest anyone who tries to help his family.

Malcolm Collins: No, it's the wrong impression. What the org will tell you is like, we distribute money where it's needed. No, it tells other orgs to distribute money where it's needed. And they don't

Simone Collins: listen.

Apparently they don't listen.

Malcolm Collins: It's, it is, it is 100 percent a scam. This org needs to be shut down. If you look at the percent, I mean, again, it's

Simone Collins: not just that it's that it also [00:18:00] locks up. Um, And, and shreds it and, and wastes it. Let's, let's look at other. Yeah. So I want to, I would just want to point out like the key thing now, like a theme under under fed news is basically.

We will resist the Trump administration. The, the big theme and I encourage anyone to be fired is to go to reddit. com slash r slash fed news and then filter, you know, top of my month or week just to kind of see what's most popular. One, I will point out it's, it's good Reddit adequate or reticent as it were to look at the rules of a subreddit and respect them when operating within that subreddit and yet.

The rules are no harassment, threats, trolling, or inciting violence. No shilling, trolling, or impersonation. No sharing sensitive or classified information. No political content. All, you know, except for like pictures of Trump as a crying baby. No speculative questions, no duplicate posts. No social media content.

Basically, like, this is, this subreddit has flown into anarchy. The [00:19:00] rules don't matter anymore because, you know, when it comes to inciting violence or you know, resisting or federal hiring questions or speculative questions or political information, like. No. Because now, you know, jobs are,

Malcolm Collins: they've totally lost the run.

My brother recently sent me a screenshot, which I'll post here, which was the Reddit front page for him, you know, just like a default front page. Only three of like 23 posts weren't about Trump. He had to go through and look for them, but let's go like, okay. So now they're bragging about like, no one took the offer.

So they're like less than 0. 7%. Fork offer. Yeah, so the fork offer for

Simone Collins: context is when the Office of Management and Budget emailed a huge swath of federal employees saying, we will pay you through the month of September of this year if you just reply to this email with the word resign and just stop coming into work.

You can get a job as soon as you want. No hard feelings, love you, bye. And apparently only 0. [00:20:00] 7 percent of people have taken up on that offer. And a lot of this is because allegedly People are being told that the, the offer is not legitimate, that it wouldn't be honored. There's another top comment is, hold the line, don't resign, federal workers, don't do it.

So there's, there's a lot of people who They're acting

Malcolm Collins: like the offer is super shady when I've seen nothing to suggest it's shady. They're like, oh, they won't even be able to pay it because it's not approved by the government. These are existing federal workers. Of course, it's approved by the government.

It's your existing salary. And in this post here, they're already just in one of the top comments blaming Curtis Yarvin for it. They're saying really it seems like he's trying to be a tech lord to a network feudal cyber kingdom. Yarvin is his and the other tech bros profit.

This is the kind of guy Yarvin is. In 2008, software developer in San Francisco named Curtis Yarvin, writing under the pseudonym Perose, a horrific solution for people he deemed not productive, convert them into biodiesel, which will help power the Mooney [00:21:00] buses. That's

Simone Collins: Amazing. I didn't know he said

Malcolm Collins: that.

Yeah, Jarvan!

So I was going through more on Fed News this morning, and this keeps coming up in the comments. This fear that they're going to be turned into biodiesel for the tech lords. And I love this. Well, not they,

The unproductive citizens, they say. And I love this. And I just want to go with it as much as possible, call people biodiesel, be like, hey, look, I don't need to take this type of crumbs from future biodiesel, just to freak them out.

And if they get real angry, you have to be like, I said bio, do you hate the environment? It's green energy.

And, more importantly, helps with overpopulation. Are you doing your part?

Alright, continue, continue.

Simone Collins: Starlit Green is federal workers. Yeah, so there's, there's a lot of discussion basically on like actively resisting and it's also so interesting. We did a separate episode on the Deep State being real and I'm Just like I [00:22:00] still, even after all that, after reading about the first Trump administration's deep state encounters and the various efforts that were made to stymie its progress.

Now I'm just seeing like on a public forum, open resistance and the framing of the Trump administration as evil. Well, I think the second. From the top, for the last month in this subreddit under like, Hexagram11 wrote, Remember the oath, hold the line He reiterates the pledge, I think, that Federal workers make, you know, I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, blah, blah, blah.

He ends with, the only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. Which is basically inciting insurrection. I mean, it sounds very insurrection Well, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: you saw what was happening with the, the federal, like, department around, like, national parks and stuff like that, right?

Like, this is an active insurrection that we're dealing with right now. Yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: These are, these are people who [00:23:00] are refusing to carry out the orders or honor the requests of the elected executive office. And that's, it's interesting. And just, just the idea for them to be like, well, they're evil. And from my understanding, the, the thing that makes them evil.

And then this is so classic pragmatist guide to governance content. You know, you wrote about this when you talked about governance design. Is it bureaucracies care only about perpetuating themselves? And of course the people within bureaucracies care about protecting the bureaucracies because those bureaucracies are their sources of work.

There was one post that made me a little sad to read of someone being really disheartened because he was 55 years old and he had a, you know, a mortgage and a disabled son and he knew that he wouldn't be able to get another job. And I think that, that, that is something that's underrated. This blase oh, these people will just get new jobs No, they won't they're not qualified and they've been doing nothing [00:24:00] No, but also like no knowledge workers just aren't getting jobs there are some people who are like, you know specialized workers who do very physical work very, you know unique work that Will be picked up elsewhere and they are very employable.

But I think that those people are not the majority of federal workers, especially those who are on the chopping block right now, because those are the like we're talking about middle management, which is just going to evaporate in the age of AI. So I do. My heart does go out for the plight of people who are supporting family members and who have, you know, there are some people who are posting in Fed News who are third generation government workers.

This is kind of like all they've known their family has made it their specialization, their line of business. Yeah. And. It is sobering to think about, you know, their frustration and their understanding that like they're at risk. And I can understand why they're reacting to the Trump administration with enmity because Their livelihood is being attacked [00:25:00] by that.

It's not

Malcolm Collins: enmity, it's rebellion, Simone. Oh, same thing. I mean, what's the difference? Okay, so here's an example of one of the top posts over the last few days. Feds, this is the time to cut off anyone who backed Trump and his agenda. This isn't the moment for agree to disagree. This is the top of Fed news.

This is the top of Fed workers, okay? This isn't about quote unquote, both sides. This is about power money and who benefits when democracy erodes. I love democracy to them. Isn't the people's will it's on a unelected government bureaucrats. That's democracy in their mind. If a company bank, an executive, a politician, or a local business supported Trump and it's pushed to cancel DEI, Oh, I love that.

That's what they're most mad about. They're telling you exactly who they are and it's time to act accordingly. You don't need to keep throwing your money at corporations and billionaires who see you as disposable. We are still shopping on Amazon when Bezos and his empire have never once given a damn about you.

Why are you still using banks whose executives had front row [00:26:00] seats to Trump's inauguration? Why are you paying for subscriptions and services that pumped money into his campaign? You know, we felt about this when you guys controlled all this stuff. We effectively did boycott. Let's see if you guys can do that.

They won't, by the way. Because they lack any ability at self control. And if you look at the top comments here top one, Trump supporters keep advancing the idea that federal workers are dumb, lazy, and incompetent. I wonder why. I have no idea why a federal employee would want to keep these relationships when they clearly have such a low appointment interview, 2.

7k upvotes. I know several mega federal employees, and they use the Few lazy people in the office, as an example, that the entire system needs to be overhauled. Their way of thinking doesn't make sense.

Simone Collins: But here's, here's what I just, we need to be clear that there are earnest, hardworking people here who are going to get caught up in this and going to get hurt.

And though I think this has to happen, I want to acknowledge [00:27:00] that it sucks for them and that this is going to be happening across all layers of middle management in large bureaucracies, private organizations, NGOs and the government. So the man that I was talking about, he got 12 K upvotes. And he wrote, I'm at the end of my rope here.

It feels like no one has our backs. The anxiety and stress keeps me up at night. I have a family, a son that is disabled, a mortgage and 20 years of federal service, military and civilian.

Malcolm Collins: You're bonding. Okay, so

Simone Collins: there's no way I can get a similar paying job in the private sector. I'm an M. P. A. The V. A. And just like the TSA workers, the corrections officers, the FPS, air traffic controllers, and food inspectors, I'm not part of the Deep State.

I didn't try to indict the president. I didn't even mind going back to the office. And he wants revenge on my GS 12 ass. I called my congressman, a Democrat, to ask what he was doing about it. His staff just rushed me off the phone. Three days later, I haven't heard back from him. I don't see a light at all.

I feel pleasure in nothing these days. What

Malcolm Collins: faction of the government is this guy in, if he's not Deep State? What is he saying? He's

Simone Collins: an MPA at the VA. He works for Veterans Affairs. [00:28:00] He's ex military. He's very

Malcolm Collins: unlikely to be fired with the crackdowns that are happening right now.

For more color on this, the parts of the VA that have been shut down is their DEI program, , which placed only, , 60 employees on paid leave who earned over 8 million combined annually, , and they have a hiring freeze, which again is not going to be relevant to him. , the only part where it looks like you might have significant cutbacks in VA employment is A proposed closing of underutilized VA facilities, reviving a plan blocked under the Biden administration.

, while not formally announced, this signals an intent to streamline the VA infrastructure, which again, you know, this is about serving our troops. If It is being inefficiently deployed, so the money isn't getting to helping them in underutilized facilities. Yeah, something should be done about it, but overall it seems he's fairly safe.

Unless he's at one of these few facilities.

Yeah, but he's, he's getting really distracted.

But let's talk [00:29:00] about who actually is being fired. So remember the post I was just reading, like the third most upvoted comment on it was Trump just said as much in his speech, he said that many of those who work from home are just collecting a paycheck and doing nothing, possibly working second jobs.

Top comment under that is a crunk thing. About so lazy, they're working a second job. Everybody thinks this is hilarious, right? Oh, so lazy, they're working a second job. Because they're all working second jobs. You, you are buying into the person who's, who's, who's buying into the fantasy that has nothing to do with reality.

Like, why would you say like, oh, this guy, I feel bad for him when he's not even in a department where they're doing cuts.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean, he thinks that

Malcolm Collins: he's in his, his, his silo right here, his bubble right here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, maybe. Now what I didn't expect to see, [00:30:00] which there is at least one post of that has 10k of votes as of now it was posted three days ago was.

Reddit user Kali Doley saying, Black federal employees, how are you? And she talks about how she, well, I'll just read it. I am a Black female DOD fed and I feel beat the hell down. Every mention of stifling DEI efforts and removing any evidence of DEI achievements feels like a slap in the face. It feels like a personal attack.

Every damn day, I'm holding the line for sure but I wonder if any other Black feds feel like this. Go to the

Malcolm Collins: comments, go to the comments, come on, find some, find some outrageous stuff here. Well, see, like,

Simone Collins: I didn't expect to see this. I didn't expect to see that there were actually people in the federal government who were like, yeah, man, this DEI stuff was really important to me.

And I'm surprised to see it because, because they're SNF supremacists.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What is her comment other than SNF supremacism?

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, let's see. Top, top voted comment, 4. 5 upvotes. I feel defeated, sad, [00:31:00] now I'm pissed the f**k off. I ain't leaving my job, I'm staying. And someone responds to her affirmative response, the OP's original response.

This is the stage of grief that we, collectively as a country, must hurry to get to. The anger phase. This is when we stop watching in horror as things are being done and instead get up. And get that s**t done. And these are

Malcolm Collins: federal employees right here. Simone, here's another one. Okay, so this is one of the top upvoted comments, 13, 000 upvotes on Fed News, okay, for federal employees.

All right, it says, is there any point where the media will grasp that this is a coup or a coup attempt? I work in the federal agency space and I am totally baffled by the media's unwillingness to call this for what it is. It's a genuine national emergency. And I, as a tax paying, you are a tax receiving citizen, you .

You don't get to call yourself a tech, you tax . I should not have to go to a freaking subreddit to get accurate news and content. Well, maybe you're not getting accurate news and context when the media [00:32:00] is already inaccurate and insane. You just want your insane fantasies validated for you, but okay.

I am so grateful everyone here, muskite trolls excluded, of course, for holding the line and standing strong in a situation that is explicitly intended to cause immense trauma. Explicitly intended to cause immense trauma.

Simone Collins: They are claiming Actually, that, that, that is explicitly true. I, I think Resvaat, I'll try to look up the The quote, he's setting up the OMB, the Office of Budget and Management, that's kind of overseeing a lot of this.

Speaker 2: We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. We want, when they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work. Because they are so, they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down so that the EPA can't do all of the rules against our energy industry because they have no bandwidth financially to do so.

We want to put them in trauma.

Mission effin accomplished, my man.

Simone Collins: He said something along the lines of like, I want [00:33:00] them to feel traumatized by this. So that's, that's accurate actually. Which is kind of great.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, he's in the background here.

Simone Collins: So. But yeah, I'll go to your calendar and rebook. That's the best way to do it. Right?

Ho Math: Yes, that's fine.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, that's home math, by the way, for people who don't know. Top. GigaChad. Um.

Simone Collins: GigaChad. No. I'm sorry. Every time I hear the word GigaChad, I just picture Trogdor the Berninator.

Hold on.

Come on. I gotta go here.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. No, it's been clear since well before the election that the media is writing stories to match their owner's preferences and get clicks. Whatever gets them clicks. Claiming that there's a literal coup going on? Reporting on a coup would get bad clicks though. Yes! It would upset Musk.

What?! Okay, so keep in mind, if you are a federal government employee. Okay. And you believe that there is a coup going on. That means that you have a right. And, and what is a coup to them, but losing an election, losing the popular vote in [00:34:00] an election that at the coup. In their minds because they believe that they have a right to this country and its government services.

That is horrifying. Like, we should be, like, well more worried that they feel okay publishing all of this. And can I say how much that I love that Elon chose, like, okay, we didn't get parts in the, in the, in the Doge department, but that Elon chose a bunch of 20 year olds. Like, that's better than us.

These people can, can spend time on this that we can't spend.

Simone Collins: They don't have the commitments that we do. They don't have children to keep alive. And, homes, they can very easily, you know, like, just chill in the government offices, in the beds. Which is so cool and very efficient. It sounds like, very stressful, but a very great time in the end.

You know, very meaningful part of your life, so.

Malcolm Collins: Well, if you look at what people are saying here, because that's what people are here for right now. They want to see people freaking out. So I got comments here saying, I tried to put this in a post since this is a burner [00:35:00] account. It got denied. This is the first coverage I've seen that starts to grasp the severity of this issue.

I'm terrified, and it's musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems. Thank God, by the way given that this is what the government workers are saying. Like, why should we not want them locked out of systems if this is what they're saying? And then the person under this says, I just came here on Reddit to post this.

I'm actually Shaking from fear, it is a coop, and no one is admitting it. The silence is deafening. Then under that it goes, Me too, I'm literally sick over this. And there was a, a, a good post from whatever that service, the, the, the Fed, whatever news, and it's all the progressive, and they're like, I'm shaking, I'm shaking, and the Trump made like a battery from them to power the, the U.

S. Because they all say this, they're like, I'm literally shaking.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, it's It's interesting. I [00:36:00] mean, the, the themes here are a little, I mean, not, not disheartening, kind of what I would expect, but I'm surprised that there's so much, like, don't resign, don't do it. And not more just like, well, you know, a few people, like if you really aren't into your job and you're not doing anything, why not?

I'm

Malcolm Collins: glad we're

Simone Collins: not going to have to pay

Malcolm Collins: for their, whatever we just need to get rid of them all.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, maybe that is why. Senator Tim Kaine told them to not accept the buyout. So one of the more popular posts recently was someone saying, Senator Tim Kaine said to not accept the buyout because it's a trap.

And that he said, no one should take it from president Trump because there is no budget line to make payments for this. And it's a trap. I've not received the email yet, but when I do get it,

Malcolm Collins: salary line, what is he talking about? Yeah,

Simone Collins: that's, that's what I don't get. Is it like. All of these departments had budgets for these staffs that presumably were going to run through September.

The only difference here is [00:37:00] that the government is somewhat acknowledging that they were a write off, like the work that they would have done during this period between now and September wasn't of use to the federal government anyway, so the federal government isn't losing anything. The fact that at least their salaries stop after September is a win.

Look at them

Malcolm Collins: freaking out about them, quote unquote, covering up core values at the FBI. Core, core, core values. There's an image

Simone Collins: of, and it's, it's beautifully dystopian actually of someone taking a very depressing color of gray and just painting over, A series of, like, a very, very lame corporate wall with a bunch of words, like Oh no, yes, all like DEI slop,

Malcolm Collins: and people are panicking.

Equality, and yeah, it's Please share with the media, pictures speak a thousand words.

Simone Collins: Yeah but I'm sure just seeing people coming in and painting over signage in their offices Oh, this is

Malcolm Collins: great, they just fired all the agents who worked on January [00:38:00] 6th cases, I know one personally.

Simone Collins: Someone

Malcolm Collins: someone

Simone Collins: wrote that.

Yeah, this is this is a great source of entertainment and gossip in general, but let's let's sort of, you know, everyone, we would just encourage everyone to go in and read this yourself. Keep informed of what if you if you want to know what the deep state's doing, you don't even have to like, wait for some.

Trump administration employee to leak a report or make a report. You can just see what they're saying themselves on Fed News on Reddit, where apparently this is like the one corner of Reddit that's still full of real people. Which is both kind of great and kind of not considering that they seem to be doing this during work hours.

But this is it's really interesting and This is something I don't think we've ever seen before. Oh my God. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: you got to look at this. Hold on. This is a GIF. Feds being told not to leak information. Oh, I saw. And it's that clip

Simone Collins: from mean girls where she's just like dropping George everywhere, just [00:39:00] drops her burn book.

They're saying

Malcolm Collins: we are insurrectionists. We need to be put. That's what I'm seeing from that. We're going to

Simone Collins: absolutely rebel. No, I, this is, it's, it's eyeopening and you should look at it. And what I'm, what I think is. So useful for anyone to peruse this subreddit is to see something unprecedented play out in real time.

On one hand, basically, you're seeing, you know, you're seeing

Malcolm Collins: a coup attempt. Trump's and Elon

Simone Collins: Musk's posts on truth social and on X talking about what they're doing. And on the other hand, you see. the other side of the battle, the active battle posting on Reddit and probably a lot more on blue sky, which I still am not going to try to figure out how to have an account on.

I really don't want to merge ourselves in toxicity. No, no, but this is, I don't think this level of trying to. clear out bureaucratic rot has ever been done before. And keep in mind, [00:40:00] bureaucracy is a relatively new thing.

Malcolm Collins: It needs to be done. They are proving that they are treacherous. They hate the American people.

They hate democracy. And they believe that the quote unquote, a coup is the American people saying enough is enough.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But the, the modern bureaucracy as it exists from a governance standpoint, and obviously there have been big sprawling organizations before the industrial revolution, like. The Catholic Church.

But I think they did, you know, they did operate, I would say in an arguably much more agile way than even, you know, bureaucracies now. So modern bureaucracies really only began to spring up with the British Imperial Empire and with the Industrial Revolution. We've never really seen. A time, a reckoning in which people have systematically fought back to pare down bureaucracies that have grown out of control.

There have been periodic times in which economic or governmental disruption have caused organizations to simply fail and then, you know, go bankrupt and cease to exist. [00:41:00] But never have we seen with, with the exception of Elon Musk and Twitter, kind of like a test case there any effective attempt to actively pare down and streamline a, an ossified, large, sprawling bureaucracy.

And now we're seeing this massive, this isn't just. A political stunt. This is a social experiment. This is an experiment in governance and bureaucratic management to see can this be done and you can see it playing out on Reddit.

Malcolm Collins: You see these people freaking out. You see a portion of the government saying we plan to act to disrupt the will of the people in the United States.

And I don't think that there is any way our country survives unless we completely clear this out.

Get your popcorn.

In this episode, the hosts delve into the complex issues surrounding fertility declines and the possible impacts of smartphone use on marriage and birth rates. They examine fertility statistics, research from the Financial Times, and discuss various arguments, including those posed by Adam Conover. They analyze whether modern technology, especially smartphones, plays a significant role in reducing marriage rates and birth rates. The discussion extends to geographic differences, cultural impacts, and the broader implications of modern lifestyles on fertility. Offering various perspectives, they also touch on the need for new cultural systems to motivate higher fertility rates and the challenges presented by current societal trends.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be going over a lot of fertility statistics, a lot of graphs, and we are going to be asking a question that has been posed in a few different ways. We're going to be looking at a number of different articles and research pieces today.

One is the question of, Is fertility collapse primarily due to a breakup in marriage rates downstream of cell phone use Or is and then a second argument I heard actually Very interesting for me. What is it adam ruins everything that guy adam conover. He has like a podcast You know, and he had a competent pro, like progressive pronatalist on who was arguing that it was cell phones that were leading to all of this.

This

Simone Collins: is not something I've heard before. I mean, certainly cell phones have been blamed for the lack of children's literacy, the mental health crisis, but marriage rates?

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, she argued it was making kids that wasn't happening to the phone. So we're going to go over these two related arguments.

Okay. Okay,

Simone Collins: sure.

Malcolm Collins: And I'm going to start by reading a piece from [00:01:00] the Financial Times and then going occasionally into other pieces that exciting, but from a marked fall in the number of couples had U.

S. rates of marriage and cohabitation remain constant over the past decade, America's total fertility rate would be higher today than it was then. And here I am putting a graph on screen that is total fertility rate varied widely by marital status. And what it looks at is what your total fertility rate would be.

If you had been having kids this whole time, so some numbers look really high, like the married and spouse present looks like it's been hovering around 4. 5 for the past decade, right? And so the question is, okay, why does that look like it's hovering around 4. 5? Why does separated look like it's hovering around 2.

5? Why does married spouse absent look like it's hovering around 3? Like they seem weirdly high, right? Okay, so here's why. While women are married, they tend to have very high birth rates. Note, the chart above does not show that married women [00:02:00] will have four or five kids. It means that the average birth rate for married women ages 15 to 50 sums up to four or five kids.

You started at 15 there. That seems a little like you're massaging the data. Okay. I don't think many women are getting married at 15, sweetheart. But that's a 35 year span when the average woman will actually only spend 12 and 20 of those years married.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, okay what is shown here, which I find compelling is that for period married, the number of kids people are having is not declining over time.

So if you can get people married earlier, you are going to have more kids. Yet we've said that before. I do not think that that is the core of the problem, but we'll talk about that in just a second. As you can see above, there's been a decline in married fertility since the peak in 2009. But [00:03:00] married fertility rates today aren't actually much lower than married fertility rates in the mid 2000s.

For divorcees and widowers, age adjusted birth rates are actually higher now than they were before the recession. Never married women, again, have about pre recession levels of fertility, too. By fixing age specific marital status, 2001 to 2008 levels, we can model a counterfactual scenario of what fertility might have been had people gotten married and form families at the same rate as formerly.

And what you see here is that, yes, the fertility rate would have fallen net negative, but not by a ton. You're looking at, like, by negative like 0. 2 here or something like that. Okay. But, we'll get to why I'm not super compelled by this. Essentially, all of the decline in fertility since 2001 can be explained by changes in the marital composition of the population.

Married, single, and divorced women are [00:04:00] all about as likely controlling for the age and marital status to have kids as they were in 2001. But today, a smaller portion of women are married during those peak fertility years. Relationships are not just becoming less common, but increasingly fragile. In egalitarian Finland, it is now more common.

For couples who move in together to split up than to have a child. A sharp reversal in the historic trend and this is from a paper here Partnership Dynamics and Entry into Parenthood Comparison of Finnish Birth Cohorts 1969 to 2000. Any thoughts before I go further?

Simone Collins: No, keep going. I want to hear more.

Malcolm Collins: When pictured as a rise in happily childless dinks, dual income, no kid couples, with plenty of disposable income, the social trends accompanying falling birth rates seem benign. But the rise of singledom and relationship dissolution is a less rosy story, especially considering the drop in relationship formation is steepest among the poorest.

Of course, many people are happily single. The freedom to choose how to spend one's life and with who or without [00:05:00] is to be celebrated. I don't believe that, by the way. People aren't happily single. Everyone hates their life when they're single.

Simone Collins: I don't know. I loved being single, but I didn't. No, you existed.

So there's that. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Quality of your life when you were single versus quality today.

Simone Collins: Much better now. More stressful though.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the point being is, is you would hate your life when contrasted with today, if you knew this was a possibility. Yeah,

Simone Collins: totally.

Malcolm Collins: But the wider data on loneliness and dating frustration suggests not as all as well.

So we're going to put some graphs on screen here. Here you can see the share of children born outside of wedlock by mother's class. And this is in the United States, 64 percent of your poor. 36 percent of your working class, 13 percent of your middle or upper class. Millennial family passed by class.

Do you have a kid before marriage or do you have marriage before a kid? If you're poor, 61 percent chance you have a kid before marriage. Only 16 percent chance you have a marriage before a kid.

Simone Collins: Wow. Okay. If you're

Malcolm Collins: working class, it's [00:06:00] 44 percent chance you have a kid before marriage. 34 percent chance you have a marriage before a kid.

Kids are forcing marriages in our society. If you're middle or upper class, it's actually only a 19 percent chance you have a kid before marriage. Any 51 percent chance you have a marriage before a kid. Wild, right? And when you, when you look at these disparities, why an almost worldwide decline and why now the fact is that this is happening almost everywhere.

All at once points to more broad changes acting across borders than country specific factors. The proliferation of smartphones and social media has been one such exogenous shock. True. Geographic differences in the rise of singledom broadly track mobile internet usage, particularly among women, whose calculus in weighing up potential partners is changing.

Both of those things are true, but maybe not as strong as you think. Surveys of childless women tell us that the top reason is not career, lifestyle or financially related. [00:07:00] It is that they just haven't found the right partner. This was the second most UK study of 42 year old childless women right by behind not wanting Children.

Focus on career was way down the list. U. S. Studies echo this fertility rates within marriages have stayed fairly steady since 1990. And I'll put a graph on screen here or chart on screen here. The most important reason for remaining childless. This was a 1970 British cohort study. So a very old cohort study first of all.

Um, And if you look at men versus women, actually for men trying to find a good partner, it was the harder problem than it was for women. This was 28 percent of men not wanting Children, 23 percent of men not finding the right person for women. It was 31 percent not wanting Children, 19 percent not finding the right person.

So women are the bottleneck in not wanting Children, not not finding the white person. This is a little bit of pocket sand here. Okay, mobile phones and attitudes towards women's participation in politics. Evidence from Africa. So in this study, [00:08:00] they are showing that women adopt more liberal views of a woman's role in a relationship and with kids.

when they get access to mobile phones. And this is where I will bring up the secondary argument. I heard that I found pretty compelling from that Adam Conover show, which is to say, okay, well, so, and I actually think this argument is way stronger than this argument in the financial times. Because the financial times is like, well, it's, it's, it's women becoming more liberal and not getting married.

But the problem is, is that we know in societies where women are still getting married, which we'll get to in a bit. You know, whether it's Iran or India or anything like that, we're still seeing precipitously dropping fertility rates. Right? So it's not marriage, it's just not, it's just not, we, we don't, we, we, we should see a huge difference in the societies where marriage is still happening and where it's not still happening.

And we don't see that huge difference. Mm-hmm . So whatever it is is everywhere. It's in rural Guatemala, it's in Iran, it's in India, it's in China, it's in the us. What is everywhere? Mobile [00:09:00] phones. So what this other person argued, she goes, well, what you don't understand is how much boredom people used to have.

She's like, you know, when I was growing up, yeah, we had phones and I had like snake on that phone. I had snake on my phone. A very good. I remember

Simone Collins: fondly. Yes. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: And when you're deciding, do I want to go over to a friend's house or play Snake, you usually want to go over to a friend's house. Even if they don't have, like, something specific planned, you're like, almost anything is better than Snake.

Snake is only better than, like, sitting alone in a car or something like that, right? Now you're dealing with a completely different phenomenon. Do I want to go to a friend's house or enter like a fully immersive three D world, right? Or do I want to chat with an AI or do I want to like, that's lot, lot harder, especially.

And, and within cell phones, you've got these whole, you know, even when you didn't have things like Reddit back then, you didn't have things like social media, as we understand it today, where there is constant feedback, constant dopamine loops. And. [00:10:00] The idea being that the main reason people had kids historically was just that they were born.

That's the main reason they dated. That's the main reason they hung out with friends. That's the main reason they did all of the things that made society work.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because what we're also seeing is rates of like the number of friends that people have are much lower now than they were before as well.

And that does correlate with smartphone adoption. So there's, there's ancillary evidence that suggests this is true. People are just not, they don't need.

Malcolm Collins: And in some countries, they're like banning cell phones in schools and stuff like that, which was a lot of this. It's like, I'm sorry, that's not going to work because then they're going to have access to cell phones outside of school. Do

Simone Collins: you plan

Malcolm Collins: on finding their partner in high school? Like you don't seem to.

So why are you acting like that's the solution, right? So one, even if this is a problem, I'm not particularly compelled by it. And then two, this doesn't explain the secondary issue which for me is much bigger. Okay. which is that fertility [00:11:00] rates are going up for every single age cohort except for under 24.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or, or going up or staying around steady. It's under 24 that is, that is dropped. And then under you know, 20 where you've had the precipitous drop. And so what we need to find is ways to motivate fertility at these, these higher ages. More than you had historically. Dramatically more than you had historically.

And so you can't explain new technology, which you might say is actually the drop in fertility rates is a good thing, and we need to increase fertility rates. In older generations through increasing the desire, like you need to have a more a desire to have lots of kids and even your ancestors did and also none of this really to me like the boredom thing that doesn't explain 50 percent of people saying they don't want kids if you're talking about like Gen Z, you know, like That doesn't explain that.

When, historically, as we went over in a recent episode, only 5 percent of people said that. So, and 20 percent had no kids, historically, by the way. That was what [00:12:00] we learned in that episode. I don't

Simone Collins: know if it's necessarily boredom, or if it's also that we've lost an ability to be comfortable dealing with humans at all because of phones.

People are far less comfortable now interacting in person, let alone picking up a phone to make a call. You know, that's like seeing this kind of flick. Palsy move, you know, I think it's palsy when dares to give me a call. And That, I think, adds the friction significantly to bringing another human into the world and being aware of the fact.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: I agree. I, I think what we need is, is, is new exogenous ideological motivators for child, for, for having kids.

Simone Collins: Absolutely. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And not modifying or banning technology that we cannot control in terms of how our kids are interacting with it.

Simone Collins: Absolutely. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And when I say they're like, well, I can't control when they're young.

Yeah. But then you can't control when they're not young. And now you've, you've, you've given them this horrible thing. They have no immunity to. [00:13:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. That, that's a really important thing is this idea of raising kids screen free. I get the, so an argument I hear a lot of. People make is, well, at least I can give my kid inhibitory control and the ability to live without screens as long as they're in my household.

And I do see benefits in that. Absolutely. It's great.

Malcolm Collins: But getting them inhibitory control, if you are removing the screens, you have done the exact opposite.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, the thing is, you have to learn how to have that control despite the presence of the screens, unless you plan on isolating your kid for life.

Because otherwise they will get access and which the

Malcolm Collins: Amish do in some righty communities do functionally speaking, but yeah It's not one of those groups, you know Yeah, I guess convert if that's the way you want to play the game I think it's it's I want kids who can engage with technology Because I think that technology is gonna be key to them crushing their enemies And [00:14:00] so I'm not, I'm not keeping them away from this stuff, you know, but to continue the fall in coupling is a deepest in extremely online Europe, East Asia and Latin America, followed by the Middle East and then Africa.

Single Demerarians rare in South Asia, where women's web access is more limited. This is really interesting to me because I didn't know that web access for women was so limited in South Asia, and it is true that the places where you've seen the biggest fertility crashes have been like East Asia, where phone use is so much more common than it is in Europe or the United States.

And then in Latin America, phone use is also super, super common in terms of like recreation and stuff like that. And it's less common in Africa from what I've heard. So, 6 in 10 women internet users who took part in a study faced some kind of restriction from their families when using the internet.

This is in Pakistan. Women disconnected. Feminist case studies on gender digital divide amidst COVID 19. This is a paper. The majority of respondents of the survey said that they are only allowed to use the [00:15:00] internet. for attending online classes or talking to family via WhatsApp.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: More than a third of those surveys acknowledged higher restrictions on the use of internet for girls than boys with 16 percent saying girls are not allowed to use it at all.

16 percent said girls are not allowed to use it at all.

Simone Collins: Gosh. Keep finding But boys are fine.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Why, why the difference? Well, because they're not incepted with the feminist mind virus, which is the key thing that's causing a lot of the changes in the way women view one, the right to not have kids, I think.

Yeah, but I mean, having

Simone Collins: phones is damaging for everyone, you know, the effects are universal. No, it's not.

Malcolm Collins: Not in the same way. The ideological spread to a guy, like you're not gonna F up a guy's image of his attractiveness with a phone. You're not going to F up a guy's image of his market value in dating markets with a phone.

I don't know. I mean, the existence

Simone Collins: of looks maxing implies to me that that's not true.

Malcolm Collins: Looks maxing is a minute community. When you contrast it with [00:16:00] the women who think that their value on the marriage marketplace is their value on the sexual marketplace. It's like not even, this is the majority of women versus 0.

01 percent of guys.

Simone Collins: I don't know.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no, no. What do you mean you don't know? Do you argue that the number of looks maxers is higher than 0. 01 percent of the

Simone Collins: US population? Well, also women though are far more likely to end up obsessing about their appearance because that tends to be A major factor influencing their desire.

Okay, so you're saying

Malcolm Collins: that it is way more damaging to women than men

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, but i'm also not so sure that Realistically, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no you back up your your position here What but also I mean

Simone Collins: what you still i'm not just talking about the development of body dysmorphia I mean, you're also screwing up inhibitory control.

You're also distracting people like why that

Malcolm Collins: doesn't matter I don't think that matters at all to having kids.

Simone Collins: So are you saying it's a culture, I mean, I mean, but also look at the cultural ideals that are presented [00:17:00] to young men online. They're basically, you know, forced infantilization for most of their lives.

Men are encouraged to live like teenagers for as long as they possibly can. There's very little celebration of parenthood in early marriage.

Malcolm Collins: That's true. I think that there are some online communities for men that do push that. But the number of men that gravitate towards them is the vast minority. I think that this is the difference here.

You are talking about the vast majority of women versus the vast minority of men. If you look at the women who end up making inaccurate judgments about their value on marriage markets, Due to interacting with online dating pools, I would say the number is probably 95 percent to 80 percent of women.

If you look at the number of men who develop an obsession with their looks versus the number of women who develop an obsession with their looks based on online, online women, I'd say over 50 percent of women, men, I'd say Less than 3 percent of men. You're just not talking about the same numbers. Are you just trying

Simone Collins: to blame body dysmorphia on why [00:18:00] women aren't having kids?

Malcolm Collins: If it's one of the things I'm saying, for example red pillism, for example, is much less damaging to having lots of kids than feminism is a guy who enters a. Even an inaccurate representation of a historic male female relationship, as depicted by the red pill community, is likely to have kids. It's my

Simone Collins: intuition that the bigger problem is the normalization of a culture that puts hedonism over all else and doesn't reward having families or living in alignment with values that aren't just Pedonistic or highly progressive values.

I, and I think that that affects men just as much as women.

Malcolm Collins: I disagree really strongly here. It doesn't, I mean, like it obviously does. I'm trying to walk you through this. So I'm trying to get you to like, think of numbers in your head. Okay. What percent of men who engage with the internet do you think are engaged with like toxic, like red pill communities?

Probably not that many,

Simone Collins: [00:19:00] but I'm not sure. No, no, no research on the number is, is, is maybe between five to

Malcolm Collins: 25%.

Low. Okay. However, you also know how many women who engage with the internet engage with toxic progressive communities. You can just look at the data. It's 70, 60 percent. It's not even close.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think, well, and it's not, not to run counter to my own argument, but the fact that Spoonies are almost entirely comprised of young women. This is to say people who believe that they have chronic illnesses, and sometimes really do, but often don't. And that can be really damaging to their lives.

And what about Stoics?

Malcolm Collins: Right. How many female stoics have you heard of on an online community? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Fair. I mean, that, that is true. So the

Malcolm Collins: internet is more [00:20:00] damaging to women than it is to men.

Simone Collins: Heard this thesis before, but I'm going to have to think about it. I'm going to have to think about it.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So, key findings from the research indicate that around 40 percent of the women surveyed used the Internet every day. So a lot of them are still using it every day. And even in these countries with usage becoming higher as family income rises.

So again, family income. This probably shows why you have the negative correlation here. A whopping 80 percent of the respondents. Who are unable to use the Internet are from South Rizikistan, one of the newly merged districts of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa something province. Anyway you may, what, what sort of birth rate does this lead to?

Well, Pakistan's birth rate is falling You know, as recently as the 1990s, it was over six per woman. And now at 3. 41, but it's still quite high when compared to something like India, which is below replacement right now, or Bangladesh, which is below replacement rate. This is not to overstate the [00:21:00] role of social media.

Other cultural differences between countries and regions mediate both the spread of liberal ideas and people's ability to act on them. Caste and honor systems encourage high rates of marriage irrespective of media access and female education, income, and employment differ markedly between regions. So remember we're talking about India has a unusually low fertility rate for its income level.

So let's look at India in marriage rates. Okay. In a 2018 survey of more than 160, 000 households. 93 percent of married Indians said that they came from an arranged marriage. Just 3 percent had a love marriage and another 2 percent described theirs as a love come arranged marriage, which usually indicates that the relationship was set up by the families, and then the couple agreed to get married.

There has been only a slight change over time. 94 percent of octogenarians had an arranged marriage and the figure remains at over 90 percent for young couples in their 20s. Did you know that? That's really interesting to me. [00:22:00]

Simone Collins: That is really interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Manisha Mondal always thought that she would have a love marriage.

I was used to fighting with my parents. I fought to attend college. That was a little far away from home. I thought, okay, love marriage will be the next thing to fight about. Manisha, an office assistant in Bahli, a small town in eastern India, told me. But in the first few days of college, a few boys approached her to talk.

And older female students took her to the bathroom for a talking to if she spoke to the boys, they warned her reputation would be ruined to keep an eye out for her. Her older brother would drive past college a few times a day to make sure she was not talking to boys. College was important to Manisha and she's incredibly oppressive and then work, then take a chance on love.

So she cared more about work than she cared about marrying who she wanted to, which I thought was really interesting. It does sound oppressive, but it appears to be working, by her last year in college, her wedding had been fixed, was the son of her [00:23:00] father's friend from the same community. I see my parents.

They have never had a fight. So I think it will work for me too, the 24 year old said, showing her crossed fingers over the WhatsApp call. Marrying within your caste remains an essential feature of marriage in India. In 2014, a survey of more than 70, 000 people, fewer than 10 percent of urban Indians said anyone in their family, , anyone in their family had married outside their caste.

And not many more outside their jahiti or subcaste. Interfaith marriages were even rarer. Just 5 percent of urban respondents said that anyone in their family had married outside their religion.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins: Did you know about that in India?

Simone Collins: I didn't. But India and Pakistan aren't famous for great quality of life for women.

So I just don't know how I feel about this. Like, the solution to me is not Let's just roll back human rights. Let's just roll back [00:24:00] education. Let's just roll back human rights a smidge. I don't accept it. I don't. And I think that carrots are more motivating in the end than sticks. I think that empowerment is better than disempowerment.

And I think that there's plenty of history in the world in which women have had a lot of freedom, but have used it well because they weren't exposed to A terrible culture, and I agree that smartphones are a vector for very unsustainable and dangerous cultures, and I agree that those cultures have also hurt me, but they also hurt me as a teen well before smartphones existed.

I don't think just taking them away.

Malcolm Collins: You look at what motivates fertility in our family, conviction, ideology, religion, none of it would be at all mitigated by cell phone or internet exposure.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Also you [00:25:00] would not have gotten kids out of me. If you were like, well, I only want to marry a stay at home wife who doesn't go on the internet.

Malcolm Collins: I would not have gotten kids out of you. Squeezing, squeezing you for all Well, like, your

Simone Collins: whole, your, your selling point to me was, you don't have to give anything up if you don't want to. You can keep your career if that's a really

Malcolm Collins: good selling point for most people.

Simone Collins: I do see that that's an unrealistic selling point for most people, but

Malcolm Collins: Also, I'd, I'd point out here that, that you make it sound like totally magnanimous towards me, but the actual term of the contract we came up with is not as unfair as it may sound.

The rule was is that you would always be allowed to pursue your career and if it came to it, I would become a stay at home dad. Not that I would always support you no matter what the rule was, you were going to support us no matter what. I just gave you the privilege of supporting the family.

Simone Collins: The option optionality, giving [00:26:00] women optionality, I think gives them empowerment.

And I think most of. The choices among women to so optionality plays a role in choosing to not have kids because one of the biggest things we're seeing is just fewer unplanned teen births like that's what we're seeing in South America. It's not that people's intentions have changed. It's just that there are fewer mistake pregnancies and people are delaying fertility.

Malcolm Collins: But I think the core answer to all of this is. Mistake babies is where the kids have disappeared.

Simone Collins: Yeah, like largely that is what has happened. And what you're talking about here is not mistake babies, but you're talking about basically forced babies by disempowering women and, and, and creating unwanted babies, which again, like I don't think That forcing people into anything is the solution and I'm vehemently against it.

Well, it doesn't seem to work

Malcolm Collins: because there are countries that do this. Like Iran does this and it doesn't lead to an increase in fertility rate.

Simone Collins: How does Iran force [00:27:00] people to have kids?

Malcolm Collins: Women in Iran do not have a lot of rights. And the marriage rate is really high. And it doesn't lead to a high fertility rate.

So the question is why, why? And the answer is because you can't, it doesn't work like this. You, you, you can't just do that, especially if they have access to the internet and stuff like that. And so I, I think that it is a you, you might be able to get around it if you're in a culture where widespread access to the internet isn't as common.

But I don't think that those cultures will end up being the cultures that end up dominating the human species going forwards. So I'm not particularly concerned about them or interested in emulating them myself. So the question is, can you build up the spiritual fortitude to interact with these types of technology?

And I think that's doable while still motivating, like, way higher kid rates than people had historically. And I think that that needs new cultural systems, new way of relating to what kids mean to your culture.

Simone Collins: There's a lot of the reasons why people don't have kids. Are based on false premises, you know, the idea that you should have your career and everything 100 percent in [00:28:00] place before you have kids, which now is increasingly impossible, who's ever going to be financially or career stable going forward in an age of a

Malcolm Collins: wait to have kids until you're, you're stable.

Yeah, there's a bunch of

Simone Collins: false, and you know, also this false perception that it's not a good idea to have a kid while you're going through college or graduate school. That's one of the best times to have

Malcolm Collins: kids. Yeah, I was, I was talking to one of our followers about this and they were like, well, you know, my partner's autistic and so we need like a full time nanny to have kids and start having kids.

I'm like, no, you don't. It doesn't my partner's autistic. Okay. Like you'll figure it out. It's more,

Simone Collins: it is more stressful of a full time nanny if you're autistic, because guess what? Now your life is entirely about managing this party. Yes. Which by the way is incentivized to exploit you to disappoint you to only think about themselves and not about you or the baby.

So good luck with that. Being an autistic parent, I think is a lot easier if you're good at masking because you will do what doesn't feel natural, [00:29:00] but it's best for your baby. When a neurotypical parent would not. I act cheerful and playful around our kids as much as I can. And certainly I don't feel it a lot of the time, but I, I go downstairs

Malcolm Collins: and just, you understand it.

She, she creates the perfect environment for my kids. She, she goes, I go downstairs and she is making a homemade pizza and playing Italian music like, like fine, like whatever music the kids are all helping. It is this perfect scenic family movement. moment. And I'm like, Simone, like, how are you this perfect?

And she goes, well, I thought this is what like a perfect family moment would look like. So I decided to do this because like, I don't know, like I'm autistic, right? So I figured this is what you need to do, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. So normal neurotypical parents do what they feel like doing and react to their children the way that they feel.

And a good masking autistic parent reacts the way a perfect, loving, playful, yes. And a parent will. And so I would argue that. And I would say also many, many, many women who are autistic are also [00:30:00] really, really good at masking. So they're among the very best parents you could possibly have. No, you don't need a nanny.

Because like, that is the one thing that autistic people really aren't that great at even being able to deal with with training, which is just other people being a******s and taking advantage of them. Which is a constant theme, right? Like with all of our old, like Childcare options before we found our amazing solution.

We have now you were basically like, Simone, you can't talk to them. Because I would talk to them and suddenly like all of the terms would be subverted. Suddenly they would drop out on us. Suddenly like their rates would triple. And

Malcolm Collins: they sense weakness whenever they talk to Simone. Simone is not good at dealing with contractors.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. It's not good

Malcolm Collins: because she's like, I don't want to be mean. And I'm like, you need to be mean. Like you need to show that you have boundaries.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You don't. You, you enter like. Yeah, like they'll call me

Simone Collins: trying to work and this, this is again, this isn't with our current childcare arrangement, which is amazing.

But like babysitters would call me and be like, Oh, so and so has a dirty diaper. And I'd be like, Oh, well of course I'll come down and change it. And [00:31:00] then, you know, of course I'm like super interrupted. It's a, if you give a mouse cookie situation where like, then I'm down for an hour. And here I am paying this person an hour later.

And

Malcolm Collins: they demand that you talk to them. And they, you know, and you're like, Oh, I'm talking to them because it makes them like us more. And I'm like, No. They think that by talking to you, they are getting you to like them more so they can get more out of you. It's not the other way around. Yeah,

Simone Collins: anyway but yeah, that among other things, likes it in this like list of things that people Misunderstand about parenthood and just changing the culture around it can make a huge, huge, huge difference.

And it's going to have to happen on a community by community basis, but in the end, it's those high fertility communities that are going to inherit the earth. So it doesn't matter that only a small number of cultures are going to pass through all this, the ones that figure it out will. And I just don't think the ones that systematically disempower women.

Are, are, are going to make it

Malcolm Collins: these

Simone Collins: women,

Malcolm Collins: there'll be like a permanent [00:32:00] dysgenic spiral.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not good. It's not good. Also, they're, they're not having that many kids anymore.

Malcolm Collins: It's not even that effective a strategy anymore. So it's like, well, why, why take all the costs?

Simone Collins: Yeah, the like going forward one.

I mean, because child mortality is way down. Women don't ultimately have to have that many kids to really grow the population because we're not losing half of them to tragic ends prematurely. However, sacrifices between fertility issues and delayed childbearing. People are going to have to be highly motivated if they want to have kids, they are going to have to Really, really, really, really try and either invest in a ton of like, just holistic health solutions and live healthy lives, which is hard to do these days or undergo fertility treatment and IVF to have the number of kids they want to have.

And that's a culture thing. That's not a female disempowerment thing, [00:33:00] but I do agree. And we're going to have to talk about this with our own family, but yeah, maybe you're right that phones. Are hurting women, young women, especially more than they hurt men, which is,

Malcolm Collins: well, I think that you protect them not by not having them access phones by having a strong memetic structures that can protect them from the types of memes.

It's a means on the phones that are hurting them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's not the phone. 100%. Yeah, the phones are amazing technology. The phones are amazing. And the way that we use our phones with kids, I would never not want our kids to be around phones because our kids know. I'm not

Malcolm Collins: that worried about our, our daughters.

Like last night, Octavian was

Simone Collins: like, Oh, how do you make a paper boat? And I'm like, I don't know. Let's look it up. And then you can learn it. That's so cool. I mean, my mom used to look things up in dictionaries with me and I love that she did that, but now we can do that with literally learning how to do almost anything, you know, how, how to deliver a baby calf, how to assemble all sorts of things.

This is so cool.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I love you to death Simone. Any final [00:34:00] thoughts?

Simone Collins: I guess

Malcolm Collins: not. Sorry. So, it's the accident babies. That's the problem. We need, not more accident babies, but we need to find a way to offset the accident babies that don't exist anymore. And the cultures that relied on accident babies to replace themselves, like Catholics. I'm gonna say like, but it's We need to make

Simone Collins: We need to make childbearing an aesthetic desirable thing.

We need to make childbearing aspirational. We need to make it people's special interests. This has to be how people are competing, what people aspire to, what people enjoy, what their hobbies are. And when I

Malcolm Collins: speak at conventions and people come to me, and like at the Prenatal Skin Mission last year, somebody was like, well, I mean, surely you want to ban condoms.

Surely you want to ban porn. And I'm like, no, those are the babies we're glad. Don't exist. The babies that somebody had because they couldn't figure out how to use a condom or they couldn't get access to a condom or the babies who exist because a guy didn't have access to porn. And so it was like, well, I want to get off today.

So I got someone to use my girlfriend. [00:35:00] Those are the babies that, that are, that, that are the accident babies. Yeah. How

Simone Collins: can you be pronatalist? And even if it's just pronatalist in terms of like, Oh, I love kids. How can you love kids? And want people who resent kids to be raising them,

now, we need to change our culture and show people that actually they are ready to have kids. Yeah, but that is a very different thing than literally forcing it upon people. Because, face it, many people just never do get ready. And then they just start presenting it. It's

Malcolm Collins: interesting to me that so many religions rely on our basic, most perverted, most animalistic biology to motivate reproduction.

And that those, those groups are the ones that are dealing with fertility collapse the most. Because it turns out that this system just doesn't work in the modern era. And that you need to find ways to get people to value kids for the sake of the kids. Which, which does work, you know, for example, if you look at the Catholic communities, for example, they're doing really well in terms of fertility.

It's because they want to have kids. [00:36:00] It's not because they accidentally got pregnant or didn't understand contraception or they, you know, it's because they're like, I am all about having like as many kids as possible.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I think, well, the thing is, and what I think Catherine has it, right. The high fragility couples start out wanting a lot of kids for a setting and ideological reasons, and that gets them through the first three.

It's like loosening the jar because it is really hard to push through your first kids. It is difficult when you're doing everything for the first time and they're not there to entertain each other and you haven't yet shifted to commercial operations of everything. So nothing's really sustainable.

That's the hardest part. So you need that exogenous motivator. And then beyond that, the kids. sell themselves. Like it's, it just, it's hard. It's hard to quit after that point. As long as you have the physical, are you addicted

Malcolm Collins: to pregnancy?

Simone Collins: I'm not addicted to pregnancy, but I am definitely addicted to having more kids and wanting more kids in this world.

They're just amazing people and they love each other.

Malcolm Collins: Child addiction. I know. I actually find it very interesting that progressives they always frame what we're [00:37:00] doing. It's like a breeding fetish. They're like, which

Simone Collins: one is ironic because yeah. None of our children have been produced via sex.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But the idea of like, oh, they're trying to force their breeding fetish on society. And it's like, what a perverse understanding of why people do things, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like literally the only version of sex that is not an exercise of some kind of kink is procreative sex. Yeah. Everything else is some kind of kink or like, hedonic thing.

The only version of sex that is, like, actually Well,

Malcolm Collins: that's what it evolves for, right? Like, that's why you feel these things. Yeah.

Simone Collins: But, you know.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you today, Esteban. Have a good day.

Simone Collins: I love you, too. What are we doing for dinner? Gochujang chicken.

Malcolm Collins: I was actually wondering if you could do fiery chicken with gochujang, but not the sweet sauce?

Simone Collins: I don't know what you're talking about. Like, the same chicken you had last night? That kind of chicken?

Malcolm Collins: The chicken I had last night used gochujang and a sweet sauce. It

Simone Collins: [00:38:00] didn't, no.

Malcolm Collins: It was just gochujang and what?

Simone Collins: No, there was no gochujang sauce in that chicken at all. That was not gochujang chicken.

Malcolm Collins: What was it?

You liked

Simone Collins: gochujang. That was Sichuan chicken.

Malcolm Collins: Really?

Simone Collins: That's

Malcolm Collins: very sweet for what I thought.

Simone Collins: When I gave you gochujang chicken, I was like, wow, like, don't you think it's too sweet? And you're like, it's not sweet at all.

Malcolm Collins: I'd be lighter. It's just right now I'm not really in the mood for sweet food. I'm more in the mood Would you just like

Simone Collins: Mapo Tofu instead?

I just, I need to use that chicken.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, let's do Mapo Tofu.

Simone Collins: Off I go then. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: You're amazing.

Simone Collins: Everybody has been dunking on phones again, like we're back to it. I thought that with the threat to TikTok ban that people would start defending phone use and now no, suddenly phones are still bad.

Malcolm Collins: I haven't noticed this.

Simone Collins: I, I have noticed it offline, not, not necessarily online. Let me do the reminders.

Hey, guess what? We are going to be in Austin [00:39:00] at the NAIDL conference this March. We would love to see you there. So whether or not you live in Austin, this might be a great excuse to take a little trip. You can get 10 percent off your registration for NatalCon. The, this is the second inaugural pro natalist conference, by entering the code Collins at checkout.

So if you are going. We're really excited to see you there. And if you're not, sorry.

Speaker: Nom, nom, nom.

Speaker 2: What

Speaker 3: does it look like when you eat, Testy?

Speaker 2: It looks good. Small pieces.

Speaker 4: I have green. Nom, nom, nom, nom, [00:40:00] nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. Does it look

Speaker 3: crazy when you eat, Testy?

In this episode, we delve into the contentious topic of assisted death in Canada, focusing on its prevalence and ethical implications. We start by highlighting the often polarized opinions, even among conservatives. The discussion spans statistics, highlighting that in some districts like Quebec, MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) accounts for a significant portion of deaths. We also discuss individual cases like Christine Gauthier, a veteran who was controversially offered assisted death by a caseworker. The conversation touches on the future demographic challenges and the role of AI, biblical perspectives on suicide, and societal values regarding end-of-life choices. We also challenge the perceptions of worthiness in life decisions, drawing on personal stories and statistical analyses. This detailed exploration aims to provide a nuanced view of a highly sensitive issue, challenging both progressive and conservative audiences to rethink their stances.

Speaker 15: [00:00:00] Well, Carl here thinks I just put my cat to sleep, but I don't know how to talk to Laura about it. Oh ho, Mr. Republican conservative tight ass here suddenly believes in assisted death. If you think it's humane to put an old and sick cat to sleep, then why is it illegal to do it for humans?

Speaker 16: Yeah, how come, Carl? Because only human beings have a soul, Mr. President. Because only human beings have a soul, Larry.

Speaker 15: Not according to a Hindu. What's a Hindu? Lays eggs. Look. George. You need to take a cold, hard look at your stance on youth in Asia.

Speaker 17: Oh, I don't care about them. They're conformists and they're communists.

Who? The youth in Asia. Come on, you know, Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, look at these.

Malcolm Collins: Hello simone today we are going to be talking about assisted unaliving in Canada.

And our take on this, it may be exactly what people think it's going to be, but it might [00:01:00] also really surprise people if they think it's going to be the standard conservative reactionary take. Uh, It's definitely not on, on that because I've seen a lot of, you know, activists go out there for people to understand just how.

Much assisted unaliving is being used in Canada right now. There's a program that they call made and in Quebec right now, it made up 7. 2 percent of all deaths this last year, so about 1 in 14 deaths. And right now in 2023, there were 15, 343 made provisions reported across Canada. This accounts for 4.

7 percent of all deaths. In Canada, roughly 1 in 20 deaths, so it's really bad in some districts, like, you know, in the French district where they have no reason to live. Anyway, I mean, it's

Simone Collins: really bad. The right term, or is it just very popular in some districts?

Malcolm Collins: Well, this is this is where Ubisoft is based, so I can understand why with with [00:02:00] Assassin's Creed shadows being out there right now.

I better just end it. Yeah. If I was on that team, if I was on that team and I saw this product I'd made, I'd just be like, can we, can we edit out the, the black guy that we had killing tons of people in Japan? Like, it's that it seems racist, right? You know, I thought we were doing an anti racist thing,

Speaker: When he fights, there is a hip hop soundtrack only for him.

Speaker 2: GreeD cannot rule this village. Not while I have breath in my lungs and a blade in my

Speaker 3: head. Kill

Speaker 4: him! Brought to you by

You get in a car with them, they turn on the hip hop channel, and then they look at you. This one's for you.

Speaker 5: Who do you think you are? Oh

Speaker 4: my god, bro.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, anyway the statistics [00:03:00] get crazier.

Okay. But we're going to go over the, my favorite maid instance here. It's one you may have heard before, but I had never heard the full story.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, Christine Gauthier, a 54 year old Canadian Army veteran and former Paralympian, who completed in the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Paralympics and Invictus Games.

So, a very you know, I can make this work, person. Yes.

Speaker 6: Did you know that people who use wheelchairs also play basketball? I want you to meet some of my friends on the New York Rolling Fury. Check out some of the action!

I see it gets really intense during practice and games.

So have you ever thought about killing yourself? Cause life's not supposed to be hard. Not even a little. People who aren't disabled, their lives are super easy. It's just you. Just you who has a hard life.

Malcolm Collins: She lives with a muscular skeletal [00:04:00] disorder affecting her back, legs, and hips, resulting from a training accident in 1989 that caused permanent damage to her knees and spine. So in 2022, so keep in mind, this was only six years after completing in the Olympic, the Paralympic Games.

Okay. Okay. Very healthy,

Simone Collins: successful person.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, very healthy, successful person. She testified before the House of Commons. Oh, so this had already happened before that. Committee, that a Veterans Affair so a VAC employee had offered her medical assistance in dying.

Key points include that Gauthier had been trying to get a wheelchair ramp installed in her home for five years. During a phone call with a VAC caseworker, where Gauthier was described Being her deteriorating condition, the employee allegedly had mentioned that she had the quote unquote right to die.

Gauthier claims she received a letter from BAC offering Maid stating, quote, If you are so desperate, Madam, [00:05:00] we can offer you, Maid, medical assistance in dying, end quote. If you piss off a Canadian bureaucrat, they will send you the full, unaliving kit.

Madam.

Reportedly included providing the necessary equipment for May.

Oh, that's nice. Simone. They didn't just send her like a, this is how you apply for it. They sent an effing kit to her house

Simone Collins: because

Malcolm Collins: she complained about how long it was taking to get her wheelchair thing installed. That's

Simone Collins: amazing. Wouldn't it be just hilarious if the kit was just a gun in a box?

Malcolm Collins: No, I don't, I want it to be a hammer in a box, like, like in Team America,

Speaker 7: Gary, well, you'll probably want to take your own life. Here, you'd better have this.

Alright team, that's it.

Malcolm Collins: That is, that is how, that is how my world handle's made. But as we go further with this, one thing that we need to be [00:06:00] very realistic of, I mean, as much as you have a visceral reaction against all of this Realistically governments are not going to be able to keep the elderly alive if the demographic pyramid continues in the direction it's going right now.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: the demand will outstrip the supply in terms of taxpayer base to cover the cost and people to execute the services. So people will be looking at months, if not years in wait time for basic services. And when governments will not be able to do anything about it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, we'll reach a point where you'll have two, three elderly people for every one taxpayer.

And, and there's a point where you need to go Logan's Run or, or Soylent Green on society. I just mean this from a practicality standpoint, the amount of, and people can be like, well, that's humans who are dying. And it's like, humans are going to be dying either way in this scenario.

There

are going to be inhumane.

Elderly care facilities with people who don't really care about the elderly as we already see in elderly [00:07:00] care facilities that are really horrible environments. But imagine, you know, when you have many more elderly person per staffer, and there's even less oversight because these elderly people don't have families.

Because they never took the time to make them. So nobody cares if they're being abused. Nobody cares what's happening to them. And so we need to, you know, weigh both sides of this with the understanding that this is the future that we're heading into. Also note at the end of this, we're gonna go over the biblical stuff on suicide.

To, to cut to the chase on that. The Bible, Is, is it seems very clearly not against suicide, to be honest. Oh, really? That surprises

Simone Collins: me.

Malcolm Collins: Specifically, what we'll find is there's a number of specific mentions of suicide in the Bible, and nowhere is it condemned. So So is there, I,

Simone Collins: whoa, I thought this was like a really big thing, that suicide was super, super, super not okay.

This is one of these things that

Malcolm Collins: up, wow.

But we'll get into this, Okay. Now, to go into Maid [00:08:00] specifically where I think I start to not be as freaked out by it, and then we'll get to some reasons why I am freaked out by it, is when I go into the demographics of who's actually doing this.

You know, you'll hear about specific instances of some, you know, young person who was talked into it because they had a depressive episode. But the reality is when I actually look at these, it's parents who had estranged themselves from their kids, their kids. Kids wanted to end their lives the kids were probably going to do this anyway and they found this program and were like, sure, I'll do it through this.

And then the parents freak out. Like, how could you talk my kids into this? Everything like this. And it's like, you haven't talked to your kids in like seven years and your kid is like 22. Like, what, what do you mean how you abandoned them? That's, that's how it ended here. You know, yeah, it's not the greatest thing that the state is doing this, right?

But at the end of the day, is this different from you know, from my perspective? Yeah, I just, and a lot of the people who you see on this, and we'll actually get to the statistics on this, [00:09:00] the people who are against MADR, like, can you believe MADR is so horrible? Like, the vast majority of people using it are on state services.

The government is using it to cut costs. And here I am, like, well, I mean. You know, it

Simone Collins: makes sense. I mean, also it and I think this shows

Malcolm Collins: out of the

Simone Collins: numbers.

Malcolm Collins: A bunch of, like, productive people.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, but also it seems like a huge portion of the people who are using MAID would otherwise be on palliative care.

They are terminally ill. They are dying. And they're choosing to die with dignity. That's my understanding. It's like, okay, there are obviously these entities that people are just miserable. Yeah, and that's what we'll get to

Malcolm Collins: here. Is there's this idea of, okay, made is like young people and the government's tricking them into it, but that's just not true.

The median age of made recipients is 77. 6 years old.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's that is around the time when people get terminally ill.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. 96%. Now, now here's, here's potentially to the other side. 96 percent of [00:10:00] maid recipients are Caucasian.

Simone Collins: So, isn't Canada a very white place? Not at all.

Seems

Malcolm Collins: right. Canada is only 69. 8 percent white. What's the

Simone Collins: rest of Canada?

Malcolm Collins: I'm guessing like a Muslim and Indian and black, like

Simone Collins: maybe there are cultural barriers to choosing assisted dying when you are not white. But I mean, it would probably, it would obviously look a lot worse. If it was mostly non white people or not in proportion with the population that we're using the services.

So almost better that it's mostly white people. And then we're not, you know, no one's claiming genocide. No one's claiming some kind of racially biased.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and keep in mind, these aren't, if I'm going to be, that's the way I can say this, that can't be pull quoted on me easily. I just you know, really want my kids to be growing up in a world where their community is fit.

And I mean [00:11:00] that in terms of the way genes can correlate with sociological profiles and tendencies. And I don't mind where fitness pressure is being applied. Now If you want to go more into the statistics here, this might change your perception again. Cancer was the most frequently cited medical condition accounting for 64 percent of cases.

Simone Collins: That makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: 96 percent of cases involved individuals whose natural death was deemed reasonably foreseeable. Now I note here that it is very easy to get unmade. There are doctors who will go around and they basically just ask people like, Oh, you're, you're schedule one. That basically means you just want to end your life.

Because you can get on schedule one for anything, like saying I'm sad, we'll get you on it, saying I have trouble controlling my emotions, we'll get you on it.

Simone Collins: Well, one woman in on the trigonometry show was saying that all you have to do is stop eating for 24 hours, and then you can get on the list, so there, there are hacks.

You can

Malcolm Collins: get on schedule two, which allows you to un alive yourself within a day.

Simone Collins: That's,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, so I mean, like,

Simone Collins: clearly this can be abused, or if [00:12:00] someone manipulates it can be

Malcolm Collins: abused, and we'll get to instances in which it has been abused. But I will say here that again, we need to like realistically understand that eventually society is going to reach this point.

And I think we can look at made to see where this system is failing. Well, also understanding that, you know, Logan's run soiling green, that's the future. If we can't figure out fertility rate,

we

obviously you and I are trying to figure out fertility rate, but I don't see a realistic scenario in which we solve it before at least was in some countries.

This becomes the only realistic option to Lower the number of people dying and and keep in mind here. I mean this in a strict sense lower the number of people dying Because you can't just save everyone that's like progressive nonsense. Yeah, where they're like, oh, we're just gonna save everyone It's like well, you know, some people may not have the same value to society as other people.

I'm sorry

Simone Collins: Well, but also it you just can't save everyone and that's that's the problem being like we're just gonna save everyone means it [00:13:00] Now, a lot of people are going to be left in the lurch with absolutely zero support whatsoever. You know, and so either there could be some support, some recourse, some option that isn't terrible, or there can be nothing.

And I think a lot of these people are in situations where either their death would have been very protracted, very painful, very lonely. Very expensive. Well, and yeah, and and expensive to the to the state. Absolutely. That's like the big thing of the big debate or theme of palliative care is basically there's this very adverse incentive both economically and ethically with doctors where hospitals are incentivized to just Give as many expensive procedures as possible and also doctors have like sort of sworn to never do harm Between these two things basically even if someone's dying Even if it's almost certain that some procedure to treat someone's cancer is not going to do anything to help cure them And in fact, it may isolate them from their families and make them [00:14:00] deeply uncomfortable for the final days they have left Doctors and hospitals are still going to say, we recommend this procedure and if you don't take it, you're going to have to sign a billion forms and talk about how you're a terrible person and you're letting yourself die and you know, we're going to make life difficult for you and that, that happens, especially in the United States.

I'm sure it happens everywhere though. And that, that's what's so great about this is that like, I mean, what, what palliative care had originally posed is okay, well maybe just instead of, yeah. Like, like actively going through the maid program and having you terminate your life on your own terms. Just don't treat you.

That was what was revolutionary. What if we just let you live comfortably in your home and manage your pain? And this, this takes it a step further. And honestly, it's a lot more comfortable. And it's something that my mom, when she was passing away from ovarian cancer. Really wanted and the options available to her for euthanasia, which she did eventually get legally approved, were so untenable that by the time she did get [00:15:00] all the pills that she needed to take, like self-administer at home in order to euthanize

Malcolm Collins: herself.

She told 16 and she couldn't keep them down.

Simone Collins: Well, she couldn't, she couldn't even eat. Her throat had closed up from the cancer. So how was she? She couldn't swallow one pill, let alone a whole bottle of pills in fast succession. So yeah, I, I just, I think this is great. The only concern I had is, is in this trigonometry, trigonometry, trigonometry interview that this one huge anti maid advocate had, she talked about how the medication She was like

Malcolm Collins: depressed at one point and wanted to kill herself.

And that's like her core argument. And I'm like, wow.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It seems A lot of this, yeah, I mean, she's aware of some abuses of the system, and those are entirely legitimate, and it's worth having a conversation about them. And we're gonna talk

Malcolm Collins: about those.

Simone Collins: She also seems to just have a personal vendetta against the program, because they keep being like, Well, lady, why don't you just kill yourself?

And it makes her really mad. But, one of the things that she brought up that made me actually pause was that she said, That the combination of medications that were being given to people caused pulmonary edema and that they were essentially [00:16:00] drowning in their own bodies.

Malcolm Collins: So she's telling the truth but lying at the same time.

So here's what she's leaving out. I looked into this, Simone.

Simone Collins: I did too, and I'm curious to see.

Malcolm Collins: People are completely unconscious when this happens. Yeah. It is true that it is happening, but they are also completely unconscious, like anyone when they're in a knocked out state.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I had asked if, like, the propofol that causes the deep coma that is given to people after the min laz minlazolam, which is a really, really big calming and, like, anxiety reducing sedative, like, if after both those things, people have any shot of maybe experiencing these things, because, I mean, when I hear deep coma, I still think of, like, all these movies where, like, people are super

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, they are out out.

Simone Collins: Yeah. they're super out. So like, yes, it's happening, but no, they're not experiencing it. And also I had wondered like, well, why don't they just overdose people with like morphine or something? And the reason why is that's actually where you would have problems because morphine doesn't consistently [00:17:00] euthanize people when you give them really high doses, like it could backfire.

It could cause discomfort. And so, yeah, I, I. I'm not even concerned about the, the drugs in this, or anything.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so let's keep going here. So, you know, that 6. 1 percent number of deaths in Quebec could sound really high, until you consider that in the United States, 19 percent of deaths were from cancer.

And if I had terminal cancer, this is something I would probably want to use, rather than waste, and not even for me, it's not even about the pain. It's about the amount of my kids wealth that could go to them raising kids that I would spend on keeping myself comfortable as I died of cancer. Which is astronomical.

The amount of money you can spend on the last few months of life when you have cancer is astronomical. I'm talking millions of dollars.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and to your point, that's maybe even if you're not being treated. Just getting palliative care can be very tough.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's such a selfish and self centered, from my perspective, thing to do.

And we say this as people you know, on both sides of our [00:18:00] family have decided to choose the, I guess you could say, made, do it yourself made option rather than burden their families. Which is something that I personally appreciate, even though I like these people, you know, like, even though I'm fond of them, I understand the decision that they made and that they weren't going to be able to contribute to society anymore.

Now, if you, if you go here, this is where I begin to get a little worried here. Right? Just 89 practitioners were responsible for about one third of all made deaths in Canada, averaging about 60 cases each.

Simone Collins: So not quite 80 to 20, but that still makes sense. You know, a lot of these things, especially because this is kind of weird for doctors to do, especially since they've been brainwashed into like, Never, ever, ever, ever, ever let a patient die, no matter like what the circumstances. That makes sense that only a few would really understand this.

And

Malcolm Collins: yeah, but what if some are, because we know this from doctors, we know this from antinatalists, there are some just psychopaths out there [00:19:00] who want people to die, right? Like. who are actual like medical serial killers, right? And we've seen this before. Yes. So, one doctor helped more than 400 patients die.

A judge just blocked one of her cases. At 72, Dr. Ellen Wiebe devotes half her practice to medical aid in dying. It It's the last work she's prepared to give up. So in October 27th, a British Columbian judge intervened to prevent Dr. Ellen Wiebe or any other doctor from causing the death of a mentally ill Alberta woman.

Justice Simmel Cavall granted a 30 day injunction to the woman's common law partner one day before her death was scheduled to take place. place at Weebs Vancouver Clinic. A civil claim alleges Weebs approved the woman's request for maid after a single Zoom meeting and was out consulting her doctors.

Weebs declined to comment when contacted about the National Post. They did a front page piece on this by the way. This woman had a bipolar disorder by the [00:20:00] way. Then there was an incident with her at a Jewish care home in 2017. We've entered Lewis Brer home and hospital and orthodox Jewish long term care facility in Vancouver to provide made for an 83 year old cancer patient.

The action was controversial because the facility did not allow assisted deaths on its premises. We've entered knowing this policy. Again, like the fact that this is a controversy also sort of gets me. He was 83 years old. He called her and he was a cancer patient.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. I mean,

Simone Collins: it sounds like he's being kidnapped and tortured against his will if he's not, you know, permitted to have himself be treated the way he wants.

But hospitals can sometimes feel kind of weird like that. Like, Well, you're not allowed to leave, you're not allowed to have visitors, you're not allowed to do this and that, so I, yeah, hospitals can feel kind of scary sometimes.

Malcolm Collins: Here's the next incident, it's a doctor shopping incident. In a recorded meeting, Weeb discussed a case where she provided maid to [00:21:00] a man who had been previously deemed ineligible by other doctors due to a lack of capacity to make informed decisions about his health.

She described how the man traveled to Vancouver where she picked him up from the airport and administered maid at her clinic.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: This is being given both more to veterans and to the homeless and addicts and cancer patients for perhaps even five Canadian military veterans were given the option of medically assisted dying or made by a now suspended veteran affair.

Canadian caseworker, the county's veterans minister told the house of commons committee late. Thursday. Now this to me actually suggests, because I tried to look to see if there was any evidence around veterans getting this disproportionate, I couldn't find any. And I could just find this one scandal of one person offering it to four, maybe five veterans.

And to me, what this says is no, it's, it's not targeting veterans more, but it does target the homeless more, which.

Simone Collins: I don't, I mean, I would be shocked if it didn't, because those are the people for whom [00:22:00] the. Alternative is uniquely bad if they're terminally ill, they're not going to be somewhere comfortable, you know, they're not going to be dying surrounded by family in a place that they love.

So it would make a lot more sense to choose made as an option

And I think when you hear that this is overwhelmingly done within homeless populations, you can get the impression that they're targeting like average homeless people that you would see on the street. But no, the statistics that we heard above apply also within this population. The average age of somebody who's choosing this is 77.

6 years old and 96 percent of them have a terminal illness. , and there might be a little bit of deviation within the homeless. community, but given that they make up the disproportionate amount of maid users, it can't be that much of a differentiation. , so if I am in Canada, you know, where it's freezing and I don't have a family and I'm in my 70s and I'm dealing with whatever number of chronic illnesses, , and I have no real shot of being of utility to society going forwards.

I am just a [00:23:00] net drain on society. I can really both sympathize with and respect these sorts of decisions.

when it comes to also specific sub communities seeing a lot of growth of this. I think that's also just kind of how adoption curves work. Snapchat, for example. When it was in the middle of its rise grew from one high school where it really kicked off and then through that social graph in California, it took off like wildfire.

And I think that that's how a lot of these things work, including medical procedures. It happens with anti vaxxing, for example, like certain communities to stop taking the measles vaccine or whatever. And then you have these issues of, of disease spreading really quickly within them. But I think the same happens with things like Maid where.

Once you get exposed to it, once you become culturally normalized to it, it's a lot easier for you to recommend it to a friend or decide to use it yourself. So I don't think it would necessarily be worrying, even if a lot of people in the military or some other sub community Start taking it on because like, what if there's some [00:24:00] subreddit where they're all talking about how it was really helpful to them or their friend, you know, then it's just, that's the thing spread.

Malcolm Collins: I can, I can see it spreading virally, but I think that this is why we need better counter memes to this better reasons for people to live. I mean, I think the bigger problem that we're dealing with as a society is we haven't given people a reason to live. That is compelling to them and people's core way of fighting.

That is to remove any other option from those individuals. which I think is just such a perverse way of looking at this. Why don't you give this person a reason to value their life? Why don't you construct a world or a social order or a way of living that makes them value their life? And you know, You're

Simone Collins: asking such a convenient question.

If we had the answer for that, we'd figure out how to get through AI, but we don't have an answer for that, and it's going to be a more pressing question by the month.

Malcolm Collins: It is, but I think that it's one that we have to come up with an answer to. If the answer we come up with is the AI will keep us in [00:25:00] padded rooms and force us to stay alive you know, which AI might do, right?

There's a, there's a movie about that, I think, where the AI basically quarantines everyone to their house to prevent them from dying in stupid ways. Yeah we're, interprets, you know, whatever's laws. I, I think that That's that could be what we're headed to if we take this narrow concept here

To word this another way, I think if we normalize this ultra progressive nanny state solution to people who can't find purpose in their lives, we put our entire species at risk with AI becoming as developed as it is right now. , because we may normalize these types of ideas within the AI itself, ,

Speaker 9: Move now. I'm going to service. Please remain indoors. This is for your own protection.

Please return to your home. A curf, [00:26:00] please return to your home. A

Speaker 10: curfew is in effect. Please return to your a

Speaker 8: Please remain calm.

Please refrain from going near the windows or doors.

Speaker 9: Deactivate. Commence emergency shutdown.

Speaker 8: We are attempting to avoid human losses during this transition.

Malcolm Collins: , which becomes particularly horrifying as we get better and better with life extension technology, or as AI does, and it might just be able to force people to live forever, creating basically infinite people who are forced to live in, tubes or whatever, in states where they don't want to be alive anymore.

And I think that also as a species, the question of choosing death becomes uniquely apt in an age where it seems almost inevitable that within a hundred or two hundred years, people will be able to live [00:27:00] forever if they want to. So, if people can live forever with medical technology, does that mean they have an absolute duty to within this mindset?

I mean, I think, of course not. I think that this is one of those things where, very similar to antinatalists, where all of it is downstream of their fear of making a simple choice. all of this is really downstream of a few activists who Might have made a choice that now they would have regretted making and they want everyone else to suffer for their own mental fragility

Now, I want to get to biblical stuff really quickly because I think that we can be overly narrow and how we interpret this by you know, again, taking a Sunday school version of the Bible instead of what the Bible actually says about this stuff.

And first I know like the Bible and Christian communities are clearly okay with somebody walking in to a gladiatorial arena. With lions that have been starved and not having any intention to fight back.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and that was clearly [00:28:00] yeah, they, they knew that by making themselves martyrs, they, they, they were killing themselves.

So, you know, and in

Malcolm Collins: some cases they had, they had options to get out of this. They chose, they hoped for this and we see this in their writing, their biggest fear. Was that people would misguidedly get their sentence reprieved because like, I know how to get my sentence reprieved. I'm trying to do this.

Right. And somebody can be like, well, you know, the lion isn't necessarily going to kill them. And instead I'm like, okay, well then what about types of an aliving that don't necessarily kill people? Like what about taking tons of aspirin or cutting your wrist?

That doesn't always kill someone. Right? And it's like, was the lion, well, you can also choose to fight back and maybe give yourself a shot, you know, well, you can choose to maybe fight back with the wrist slitting

And if your response is, well, in the case of the lion, their sacrifice may help other people convert or may prove some net benefit to society. Well, then what about the person who's like, well, this cancer treatment to keep me alive, as is always the case with end of life treatment, it's going to cost an astronomical amount of [00:29:00] money.

, you know, it's going to cost millions of dollars that could go to, , helping my kids get through infertility treatment or have more kids themselves .

, I want to address something that the church will tell you to try to not have to engage with the question of martyrdom. They will say, well, with martyrdom, it's different from unaliving yourself because these individuals are not seeking death. , death is just a side effect of their belief system.

And yet, we know of many acclaimed martyrs that, you know, they were seeking death. They wrote about this extensively. for example, we have Saint Ignatius of Antioch. in his letters, written while being transported to Rome for execution around 108 to 140 CE, he actively discouraged Christians from trying to prevent his martyrdom, and wrote with enthusiasm about his coming death.

Quote, Let me be food for the wild beef through whom I will reach God. I am God's wheat, and I am ground by the teeth of wild beasts. End quote. So you can see he was looking forward to meeting God through [00:30:00] death, through dying to the beast, which he wanted to kill him.

Similarly, Perturba's prison diary, 203 CE, shows her having visions where she eagerly anticipates her death, seeing it as victory and glorification, rather than merely accepting it as an unfortunate consequence. ,

and we can even see famous Christians flip flopping on this, like Tertullian, who initially praised the voluntary martyrdom of Pertuba and others, but later had to argue against Christians actively seeking martyrdom during the Monist controversy, , which I think shows just how, you know, when it suits their interests, they're for it, when it doesn't suit their interests, they're against it.

This is not a hard and fast rule of any form of Christianity.

We are willing to have a conversation where I'd say, in some instances, it is not okay when you're under X ages, when you are, , X level of healthy, when you are, , with certain mental conditions, fine. I'm totally okay with being like, yeah, unaliving in those instances, not okay. , but what I am absolutely [00:31:00] fanatically against is individuals who would say unaliving in every instance is okay,

The question, before we get into the exact quotes from the Bible, for anyone who really wants to argue, no, I am absolutely against people unaliving themselves in any instance, when there is the technology to prevent it, what do you do when we develop the technology for vast life extension, let's say 500, 600 years, or maybe even permanently?

Do people have a moral duty to live that entire time period? I mean, to me, that feels like a horrifying world. And then you're like, well, no, but that's like medical technology, and then it's like, okay, so where do you, what about pulling the plug on someone? That's medical technology. What about taking antibiotics?

That's medical technology. Where do you draw the line here?

Like, to me, it seems.

Super isolated and like where this is okay and where this isn't okay in a way where I think it's pretty clear that. They're just like pulling hairs to try to make the things that are broadly in their community okay. And the things [00:32:00] that aren't not okay, but let's go into the specifics of the Bible here now.

I'm so curious

Simone Collins: because this blows my mind. I just thought that that was one of the So I'll start with

Malcolm Collins: the single strongest line I have found against unaliving.

Okay.

And I think this is actually a pretty strong line, but it is the only line I have found that is remotely strong. And then we'll go into evidence that is probably not banned.

Okay.

So we've got Deuteronomy 30, 19, 20. It is funny that most of the anti, like when people are citing lines from the Bible, they don't cite this one that common against unaliving. So it says, I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live, that thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him, for he is thy life and the lengths of thy days.

Strong passage but there's two problems one if you keep in mind that in the Bible, death is often used to talk about the destruction or having your name removed [00:33:00] from the book of life, and life is often talked about in the life to come, so that doesn't necessarily mean like our life today, it could mean the life to come, but.

But then the second here, the, the purpose of your life here, it says is thy, thy seed, right? Like the, thy seed may live. So if you are spending your life in a way that increases the odds of your seed, Surviving and multiplying, which it could do. Like if I'm going to spend a million dollars on cancer treatment for myself or give that to my kids to, you know, do more IVF or do more fertility treatment or do more whatever they need you to have more kids.

I have net increased the number of humans that are alive and the number of humans that God is living. through. And therefore, even by this passage, I've done okay. So it just matters sort of what you're using in the equation is what I take this, this particular passage to mean. Now, the particular bad arguments that we see are human life was made in God's image.

Genesis 1 [00:34:00] 27. You just need to look at any of our stuff on this. Human life is being made in God's image. It's the intergenerational cycle of The word used there is an incomplete word, where they had used final words in other parts of that passage to indicate something that was done. So, for us to be being made in God's image, we need to change

If we cannot intergenerationally change, then we are in direct rebellion against this line to fear.

Death is to fear God's plan for humanity.

So I don't see that as particularly compelling. Body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 6, 19, 20.

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God, you are not your own, you are bought at a price, therefore honor God with your bodies.

It's very easy to honor God with your bodies while also understanding that on the net you might be leading to more life with a decision to take your own life. You know, all bodies [00:35:00] are God's, not just your body is God. The bodies that might be brought into the, into the future. If you don't indolently waste your family as well then you have, and this one's really bad, thou shall not kill you know, from Exodus 2013.

The problem here being. That the word used here is osh. This term is generally understood to refer to unlawful killing or murder rather than all forms of killing. If they had wanted to say not suicide, they would've used the word rag, which is for general killing which they chose not to use.

So, really,

Simone Collins: in other words, it's not, thou shall not kill, it's thou shall not murder.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, thou shalt not murder. I mean, the Bible tells people to kill people all the time. Like, you know, kill this people, kill that people, go to war. Like, it doesn't have a problem with killing.

That's

like a modern, weird interpretation that the Bible is like super clearly not about.

Then you have Job who suffers a lot and doesn't end up taking his life, and I'm like, okay, like, compelling. But then why doesn't [00:36:00] God ever make that specific point anywhere in the entire Job narrative? That seems like a really germane place to make that point, if that had been something that God wanted to make.

Simone Collins: Mm hmm. I will guess he did get quite ill at one point, didn't he? Yeah, God made him pretty, pretty sick. Yeah, but

Malcolm Collins: he never, he never said like, thank you, Job, for not killing yourself.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's true.

Malcolm Collins: And, and this is where I think it's, it's pretty clear that this isn't against God's plan. Is there are three different instances in the Bible of somebody committing suicide, and, and not in a single one of them, anywhere in these, it could have been condemned as an action.

In none of them is it condemned as an action. And, and in most of them, they're, they're fairly like seppuku like, like somebody made a mistake and then allowed themselves to die as like, the penance for the mistake they had made to God, which actually goes to show that ending your own life can be a penance to God in some instances.

So we've got Samson. Samson was complex. He was chosen by God as a Nazirite and judge of Israel with supernatural strengths. However, [00:37:00] he was flawed, breaking his Nazirite vows, acting vengefully and being ruled by passions. Historian Judges shows both. Divine Purpose, defeating the Philistines, and personal failings, Delilah Betrayal.

His final act of destroying the Philistine temple, killing himself and enemies, is viewed by many as redemptive, despite being unaliving, since it served God's larger plan for Israel. They have Esrefetl's story. Betrayal of David.

Asrafatul joined Asbol's conspiracy against King David, turned against his former master. Family Connection. He was Bathsheba's grandfather, which may have motivated his betrayal due to David's adultery with Bathsheba years earlier. Rejected Advice. During Absalom's Rebellion, Asrafatul's counsel was not followed, leading to his realization that the result would fail.

Unaliving upon seeing his advice rejected, Asherfatl returned to his hometown of Gehel, put his affairs in order, and hanged [00:38:00] himself. Biblical significance, Asherfatl's story is often seen as a cautionary tale about the futility of worldly wisdom apart from God's guidance. Some scholars draw parallels between Asherfatl and Judas Iscariot, noting similarities in their betrayals and subsequent unalivings.

Saul, the first king of Israel, Also unli battle against the Philistines. Saul saw his army were engaged in a fierce battle with the Philistines that blah, blah blah. His sons were killed severely wounded by a Philistine archer. He requested the armor bearer sa asked his armor bearer to unlive him to avoid capture and potential torture by the Philistines.

The armor bearer's refusal the armor bearer. With afraid and refused to kill Saul, Saul's actions, Saul then took his own sword and fell on it, ending his life. Aftermath, armor bearer's death upon seeing Saul dead, his armor bearer also committed unaliving. Biblical interpretation, Chronicles 10, 13, 14, states that Saul died because of his unfaithfulness to God, and for consulting a medium instead of seeking God's guidance.

. The Bible presents Saul's [00:39:00] tragic end. Resulting from his disobedience and consequences of his actions through his kingship.

Simone Collins: But this also doesn't frame his choice in a positive light. It's framed as the loser's out.

Malcolm Collins: No, all of these are not framed in a particularly positive light, nor are they explicitly condemned.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, I guess it's just, this is what's happened to him. And there are plenty of other cases in the Bible where it's like, and then he died, and then he was killed, and then, yeah.

So, I guess bad things

Malcolm Collins: happen. Looked unfavorably on this or God punished him for this or his name was removed from the book of life for this or All very easy things to write if that was the intention, but they were not written that way and so where it gets interesting for me as a question because this is A thing is what do you do when a society will begin to break down and the number of deaths gets higher?

Because you remove this option for people What do you do as a family where one person would use up so much of the family? Well That could go to creating new humans. New [00:40:00] grandchildren who don't just have like five years left to live or a few months left to live because of cancer But like 99 years left to live because they're a new little baby Why why are you denying them the right to exist?

Maybe five of them the right to exist for one other person and I think that that's where the question becomes harder and that's where it's not often framed It's it's framed in the indulgent unaliving decisions Rather than the reality of this decision for a lot of people.

Simone Collins: Yeah, this is a lot more This is not what I was expecting, so that's really interesting.

I mean, obviously dying by whatever means is not the happiest of moments, but this also doesn't seem like it's the condemnable thing that it used to be framed as by churches, and I guess still is.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Well, and I think that people who feel this way really strongly, I think that a lot of them just haven't seen a relative die slowly and [00:41:00] know that they're dying, especially relatives who lose their sense of identity.

You know, individuals who are undergoing severe like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and stuff like this. And it was funny that the woman on trigonometry, when she was questioned on this, she just like, was such a zealot. She just doubled down, like, even if I've completely lost my sense of self, I want you to keep me in palliative care and be a drain on my family forever.

Like, it was like Like that's when I was like, Oh, so you have like no ethical backbone at all. Like you would do anything to cling to life, no matter the consequences to future potential lives.

And that's, that's what gets me, right. You know, if, if it's so funny that now when I, I'm, I'm looking at ethical things, I'm also like, and what does the Bible say?

I need to go into that. That was not something I did before I started like taking the Bible as an authoritative source.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and our culture too, more broadly is just so toxic on this. For example, that antinatalists don't. End their lives voluntarily, because they're talking about the damage that it could do to other [00:42:00] people completely misses the fact that they point out all the time.

Sometimes an additional life doesn't bring marginally that much good to the world. And maybe their life is kind of like that. Maybe the world would be better off without them. And people are just so uncomfortable. Exploring this topic, and I think it's, it's obviously very, very difficult if you're someone who could potentially get better, but when this comes to end of life, you are terminally ill, or you're no longer able to function in very basic ways.

This becomes much more of a no brainer.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and I think that we are going to enter a world where the number of people who are net drains on society is increasing and specifically what I mean is, is it like the severe elderly and stuff like that? And how are we going to deal with that? Like, I don't see another realistic solution right now.

And a lot of these people who are out there complaining about, oh you know, it's so horrible that this is happening. And I'm like, well, how [00:43:00] many kids do you have? What have you done to resolve the problem? They're like, well, one, two. It's like, okay, sister. Like, maybe You're the problem, right? Like, you're why we're in this problem.

You, you actually need to sacrifice, you actually need to do something for the next generation. And now we're at a point because so many people like you didn't make this sacrifice, didn't put in the effort that, that we are forced into hard choices. You know, we, we are on a collection of spaceships and It's become clear.

We don't have the oxygen to supply all the ships anymore. So do we let them all slowly die or do we redirect oxygen to a couple of them? And, and the people who are like, no, there's always a way it's like, maybe you got a little brainwashed by children's cartoons, because there isn't always a way.

Sometimes you need to make tough choices. And when lazy people force us into tough choices, I hate those lazy people who did that. But at the end of the day,

You don't approve. [00:44:00] Well, too bad. We're in this for the species, boys and girls.

Malcolm Collins: And I don't care that it's not fun, or it's not nice, or it makes you uncomfortable. We have to survive.

True

Simone Collins: story.

Malcolm Collins: And I, and I hate this, this ultra progressive sentiment. And I, I, it's so funny when conservatives pretend that they're not progressives. When they're just like, no, every life matters.

Equally.

It's like, well, not really. , not really.

Simone Collins: Well, by their value set, they do. I mean, they have differing definitions of what's real and what reality is and what values are.

And what I'm arguing here is, no, not even from their own value set is this true. Every life does not matter equally to any value set that I have ever heard of. People just pretend this when they can use it to make an argument or try to make you look like a monster. So to give an example here, if I put, , a family member in front of them versus a non family member and I'm like, I'm going to shoot one.

They're like, well, they shoot the non family member. Right? [00:45:00] Like obviously those lives aren't equal to them, or if I'm like, okay, I have a baby here and a 77 year old here. I'm gonna shoot one. One has to die. Which one do you choose? Every time they're gonna choose the old person.

Malcolm Collins: What I'm saying is that it is fundamentally a progressively minded sentiment. And they are pretending that it is conservative. They are trying to incept the conservative movement with their progressive nanny state ideology.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Okay, that's fair.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah, I mean, I

Simone Collins: love you too. And hopefully we have some years going in this. I'm just saying, depending on your definitions and objective function, this can absolutely be the wrong thing to do. But I think for most people's objective functions and definitions, this is the right thing to do. And we need to admit that to ourselves, even though it's not fun to think about.

Malcolm Collins: Love you.

Simone Collins: Love you too. I got a call back from the fertility clinic and I Am showing at least doubling hcg. So it's hanging on [00:46:00] there like I'm currently pregnant and I really want to hold on to this one.

So fingers crossed And I'm going in again for testing in three days and we'll see.

Malcolm Collins: Pitch a natal con?

Simone Collins: Yes. So we would love to hang out with you. If you plan on being in or near Austin for natal con, we're probably going to host some kind of base camp meetup, but you should be registered for this, this conference.

If you want to meet other pronatalists, if you enter the code Collins at checkout, you will get 10 percent off. So you should definitely do that. And we're really looking forward to see. Whoever shows up. It's it was amazing last year. So this year a lot of

Malcolm Collins: fun.

Simone Collins: It'll be even better

Speaker 12: I really love this. I want to scare some police that have been running with kids and get cut away, and give one million dollars, and get to scare some police, and tell them this is someone's birthday, that works for one hundred dollars, [00:47:00] and get to scare some police. You're going to have to do that in the future, Octavian.

Speaker 13: When you get big, make a lot of money, and then make the world a better place, and that's how you give money to the future police. Yep! So you gonna do that?

Speaker 14: Whoa, Torsten, you hit tight. Be careful there, buddy.

In this video, we delve into President Trump's regulatory freeze and his administration's battles against the entrenched bureaucratic system known as the deep state. The discussion touches on various instances of bureaucratic resistance during Trump's first term, as narrated in HR McMaster's book 'At War with Ourselves,' and other sources. Key points include withholding information, producing unacceptable work, delays and misalignment costing taxpayer money, and leaks to the press. We also discuss Trump's new strategy in his second term, including the implementation of Schedule F to make federal workers at-will employees and the extensive use of AI. A personal anecdote about navigating bureaucratic challenges in both government and private sectors provides further context. Tags: #Trump #DeepState #Bureaucracy #HRMcMaster #ScheduleF #RegulatoryFreeze #FederalGovernment #AIinGovernment #PoliticalResistance.

Speaker 3: [00:00:00] President Trump is a regulatory freeze, preventing bureaucrats from issuing any more regulations until we have full control of this, uh, the government and this administration.

Speaker 4: Thank you, sir.

Speaker 2: Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Malcolm. I'm so excited to be speaking with you today. Today, we're talking about the deep state, because for a long time, actually, well before Trump was elected, I've been thinking, oh my god, is the deep state real?

One. First. I think most normal people are [00:01:00] like, nah, not really. And then I read the book at war with ourselves by HR McMaster, oh, hold on. It's the fertility clinic. Hello. This is Simone.

It is. Yes.

Oh my god! When you first said hi, Simone, you sounded kind of sad, and I was so worried. No, no, no, it's not like you have to like call people with a smile on your face. I was just so worried. Wow, this is great news.

Simone Collins: The pregnancy test came back positive, but very faint. Which is exactly what happened the last time we lost a pregnancy,

so.

So I guess we'll see. And in

this book, HR McMaster talks broadly about how much he respects the office and how much he respected the president and really tried to do a good job. But at the same time, he mentioned stuff that made me really think twice. Like at one [00:02:00] point president Trump wanted. H. R. McMaster to send off a letter that he'd written to Vladimir Putin.

And rather than follow his request, he just sat on it for like two weeks. Hoping that the president would change his mind or something. And he did eventually tell president Trump that he hadn't sent it. But one, like if your boss tells you to do a thing, you do a thing. You know, unless it's illegal and two.

If the President of the United States tells you to do a thing, you do the thing. Like, that really surprised me. Especially that someone would so openly write about it in a book, and be kind of like, be proud about it. And he really was proud he did this

repeatedly throughout the book.

He does, he does this multiple times, and it just It made me think, okay, maybe there's something to this whole narrative.

So then when Cremieux put up a sub stack essay talking about civil [00:03:00] service members and political appointees I got really intrigued because Cremieux is really good at. Sharing very quantified, very sort of evidence backed information. One of the top things that he linked to was an article from 2021 sort of at the tail end of Trump's reign, his first administration talking about just how awful it was.

It's called tales from the swamp, how federal bureaucrats resisted president Trump by James Shirk. And it is insane. So I thought it might be fun to go through it. Contrast that with how the Trump administration is apparently dealing with things a little bit differently this time around because they've learned from all this.

In terms of things done, one, there are sort of general themes of How the deep state resists an administration. One is through withholding information. So at the National Labor Relations Board, career staff provided legal analysis that only cited [00:04:00] precedents supporting their preferred outcomes while omitting contrary cases.

This forced political appointees to conduct their own research to evaluate both sides of legal arguments. Which is just so insidious. Can you imagine? You've been appointed. You're in office. You have this mandate to do something. And you don't even realize that you're being like given this completely skewed understanding of reality.

I guess a lot of people are going to say, well, that's not a big deal because this has been how the media has presented everything since like, I guess, 2016. Well, in the

Trump administration, the first one, nobody understood how truly insidious the system was against them.

Yeah. Like maybe the mainstream media does that.

Like government workers whose job it is to help me, like, navigate an issue that's, this is insane. The whole

thing needs to be burned down. And Trump is burning it down, as we'll talk about in another episode. You know, he has offered six months, it looks like, paid leave to anyone who quits right now. He has moved on this More than that.

Basically now through September.

Yeah, this schedule [00:05:00] seven program, which recategorizes jobs so he can fire them. And he is just torching department after department. So I love he has both given this. Okay. You can get out with this good nest egg if you leave right now. And also when they said in the same email, we can't promise your job will still be here by then,

right?

Speaking of departments that are on the chopping block, at least, you know, according to campaign promises the department of education during trump's first administration saw career staff concealing internal documents related to allegations against for profit colleges Claiming they just claimed the data was It's unavailable.

And the documents were later revealed during litigation showing weak evidence for the department's actions under the Obama administration. So you know, they kind of had it coming, you know, but Trump gave them a chance. Clearly he was being stonewalled from within the department of education. It's got to go.

But also,

you know, I heard the only reason he didn't get rid of it in the first administration was because Betsy DeVos wanted a job there and her husband was CEO of BlackRock.[00:06:00]

So F Betsy DeVos, okay. She did, like, very little actual, like, she was, like, the worst person in the world to be running that organization.

I mean, you know, also the, the environmental. The reason

I say that is because she ran one of the largest private colleges in the United States. Which one was it?

I don't know. DeVry, I want to say, or something.

Betsy DeVos ran

DeVry. Yeah, something like that. And the goal, if any Trump run private, you know, should be to not just get rid of colleges, but to first get rid of the private colleges because they are scams that are run on our military mostly is what they are.

Yeah. Yeah. That basically extract. Military subsidized college education. Yeah, it's it's bad without getting people jobs. So career attorneys at the Environmental Protection Agency also failed to inform political appointees about significant litigation or legal positions.

So the appointees literally literally had to monitor public court filings themselves. [00:07:00] Like these, there were people there being paid who were actively not doing their jobs and appointees were based like circumventing them and just going on to public records to try to get the information they need to just do their job.

So, I mean, wow, that just withholding information, that's, I would say It's just

shocking that you can't fire them for doing that. Like, this is what Deep State is. It's rot.

Yeah, it's bad. I would, I would still put this withholding of information kind of under the lesser infractions section because it gets worse.

So, career officials at the food and drug administration falsely claimed the agency had authority over laboratory developed COVID 19 tests, delaying expanded testing capacity. And subsequent analysis revealed the FDA lacked such authority. So basically we could have had COVID 19 tests a lot earlier.

During the pandemic, if the FDA hadn't lied about its it's [00:08:00] authority

and I, and I will note here that it appears very clear. Like if you look at a lot of Democrats, a lot of Republicans forget this, but a lot of democratic politicians were saying that they wouldn't get the the vaccine if it was, when it was looked like it was going to come out under Trump,

And it appears that the FDA specifically held up its release so that it would come out under a Biden administration.

However, that turned out for Biden and the Democrats up to you, but the point being is it was intentionally delayed as bad as the Democrats say that we needed this vaccine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

hard evidence of this now. It's like undeniable.

Yeah. It seems like some of this was out of spite. Some of this was just like, we don't want the Trump administration to make progress.

And we, we want. Progress. A good example of this actually is with the Department of Labor. So career employees at the Department of Labor asserted to appointees that direct final rules, DFRs could not be issued. What happens after Biden enters office? Oh, there's all these [00:09:00] direct. These direct final rules being issued.

Huh. So, I bet they didn't

expect Trump to come back into office, did they?

I mean, like seriously, I, I just can't imagine. And I think we've all kind of been in positions where you, you go to like a really mean click at school or you're in a new department at work, you know, and, and someone's being really unfriendly.

And you're just trying to get something done. And they're like, oh, you can't, you can't file that paper that way. Are you, you're not allowed to do that. And then you later understand or learn that you can, and they were just lying to you to make your life hard. Just like there's this level of catty behavior taking place in the federal government is unreal.

And also the, there were some career staff at the national labor relations board, which of course we should expect to see

doing

silly things, but they provided incorrect dates. for reopening union contract negotiations so that [00:10:00] they could lock political appointees into unfavorable terms, which is so screwed up.

But also I would expect absolutely nothing more from labor relations. So, yeah. Why is there even a labor relations

department? Like that shouldn't,

well, yeah. Why, why are there federal why are there unions in the federal government? You know, that's another great question.

Wait, can Trump make the federal government anti union?

Is that possible? Can you just say like No, Trump was a pro union

candidate, wasn't he? I mean, he's, he supports Oh

yeah, I mean, you, you stick with the private sector unions, but I'm talking about federal government unions. Yeah, that doesn't seem right. Like when it's taxpayer dollars. Well, you're not negotiating against another party, you're negotiating against yourself.

Like, it makes no sense. You're, you are, when, I, I actually am very supportive of unions when the unions are fighting against a private party, like a company, or even like a board of company, you know, like a Disney or something, right? Yeah. But when there's like a teacher's union, who are [00:11:00] you negotiating against?

You're negotiating against people that you are electing. Right? Like if you think you deserve a higher salary, then you take that to the citizens. It's not some big mega bucks guy behind a desk.

Yeah. But anyway, yeah. National Labor Relations Board a******s. They also some of the lawyers at the National Labor Relations Board refused to draft decisions overturning administrative precedents that they supported.

They basically were like, I dare you to dismiss these to anyone who was appointed. They just refused. And that's, that's another really common theme. So like another theme of what was being done by the deep state during Trump's first administration is just refusing to do work that was considered ideologically disagreeable.

So another example of this is. The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice had some staff refusing to work on cases involving racial discrimination against Asian Americans at Yale University for enforcing conscious conscience protections for nurses objecting to participating in [00:12:00] abortions.

They just weren't willing to work on those cases. So political appointees had to handle those cases themselves, which probably is for the best. I bet the appointees are very capable people and did a great job. But just like outright refusing. Wait, didn't they win that Yale case? I think they did. So, yeah, I guess, I guess it's for the best.

Oh. Maybe you should have taken that one, cronies. Yeah, I mean, the worst thing to do, and what I think has happened to us a couple of times is when people say, Oh yeah, I'll do that. And then they just don't. And, and here's some examples of that happening basically. Well, hold

on, before we go, I love this, this entire deep state is basically the Bergens, but like actively malicious or not the bird, what are they called again?

The ones from a hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. Yeah.

The, the, the bureaucrats.

Speaker 5: Oh, kidnapping the president? Oh no, she's not eligible for release at this time. Okay, right, look, this, this is the president. Oh. Okay, see, there? Hmm? He says now the whole kidnapping [00:13:00] business was just a horrible misunderstanding. Oh yeah. She didn't mean anything by it, he's ordering you to let her go. But this isn't a presidential release of prisoner form.

Speaker 8: Those are blue. Oh, I'll stay here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, but it's basically, it is basically then so yeah, the worst case of that, of course, is when they just say, yeah, sure, I'll do it. And they don't. And that happened in the DOL, the Department of Labor Regulatory Unit, where a team of 10 to 15 staff delayed drafting a priority regulation for over a year, producing work at a pace equaling one line of text per day.

So really just like they were not, they were not doing it. And then the political appointees in that unit ultimately wrote the regulation themselves in weeks. They just, you know, they just did it themselves, but a ton of time was lost because they sat there thinking, Oh, these guys are, these guys are on it.

We asked them, like, they probably had a bunch of check ins where they're like, Hey, you know, what's going on? I'm like, Oh, well, you know, it's a [00:14:00] very complicated, you and I have had this happen to us. Like when we get scammed, it's, it was, well, especially when we were younger. And earlier in our careers, we were given the impression, and this was a big meme at Stanford's business school, where like, Oh, if you throw money at a problem, you'll fix it.

You know, just hire the best of the best. Hire

the consultant, hire the, you know, yeah.

And trust them, you know, trust the expert, let the expert work, don't get in their way. Let them fix the problem and we hired a couple people to do really important projects on those fronts in accounting In in compliance and some other things and you know, we check in and be like, hey, you know I thought this would be done by now.

What's what's going on? Oh, well, you know this whole this whole regular

Yeah, experts are f*****g retarded

Well, we were just being actively lied to in a couple of instances, people just actively lied to us. They were not working. They were charging us tons of money. They were not doing anything at all. And this is exactly what happened in the department of labor regulatory unit.

Also this happened at the U S department of [00:15:00] agriculture career staff took over two years to rescind an environmental rule affecting Alaska, despite having issued similar rules quickly under prior administration. So they basically just decided to not do it. And then, I mean, similarly, another theme here is producing unacceptable work products with the, like, Title IX regulations, career staff produced drafts that either diverged from policy priorities or were legally indefensible.

So, again, the appointees had to do all the work, which, again, is. For the best, probably. And then under USDA NEPA rulemaking, despite expertise, career staff produced unusable drafts for an environmental regulatory reform requiring political appointees to rewrite it. This is where I want to sort of point out how this is going to backfire.

So fricking bad. Because one in Trump's first administration, plenty of appointees found out that it was just easier to do everything themselves. And they did [00:16:00] now, like, as of this week, open AI released a government iteration of its AI tools that allow for government workers, even with security clearances to use offline in an Azure environment versions.

Of OpenAI's best, best resources right now, I think, you know, and this is something that we're also, you know, what happened to us when we discovered that we've been lied to so many times by people that we'd hired in to like solve problems and handle really important strategic issues. We just learned never forget no more.

We're not going to hire lawyers. We're not going to hire like accounting consultants. We're not going to hire RFP consultants like no, we're just not going to do it because every time we do we get disappointed at best. They're just not very efficient. At worst, they're actively negligent, not doing anything and overcharging us and then producing terrible work.

So what's going to happen is, and I think it's already starting, [00:17:00] those, those jobs just won't exist anymore. Those departments just won't exist anymore. If you are going to be a hostile deep state. You're going to be eliminated. Well, I mean, this time they're going in

with flame through earth. And I think that they'll actually, at first I didn't, I thought the deep state would be able to fight back, but what I've learned is this strategy that Trump is doing this administration, which is just an everything at once, as, as aggressively as you can strategy the forces arrayed against Trump just.

didn't like, they don't know what the to do. Like they, at first it was like, okay, rakes broke. We ran away. We reformed and now it's like, now they're coming back with the flamethrower

and they're like, I learned, I learned, and we're going to burn it all down. Yeah. You know, they started with drain the swamp and they were like, totally willing to like keep the riparian environment, you know, let's try to preserve some of this.

Let's not. Let's not nuke it now. No,

no, no, no. Everything will be no. There

will be [00:18:00] nothing left.

And it shouldn't be. It should be. This should all be done by appointees only now. Like if I took over a department, because it is hard to fire people. So the way I probably handle it is I just go to everyone in the department and be like, I've got great news.

You all can well, I mean, obviously anyone working from home would be fired, but I will immediately fire if you, if you go work from home and we don't need you to do any work anymore and they'd be like, what do you mean no work anymore? And we'd be like, I'm handling all of it. I got a little team of, you know, guys here.

You guys just don't need to do anything at all anymore and then wait, because that will give you all the, everything you need to fire them. You're like, why are we still, still have this entire department when without them I'm able to do my, the entire department's job? And I can guarantee you, one competent, like, small team like you and me could easily handle one of these department's jobs.

Well and in many ways it's just a lot easier because you don't have these layers of morass. I mean, one of the things that H. R. McMaster described [00:19:00] a little bit in his book was kind of all these like different things that had to be done with every piece of presidential communication and every little this and that, and I'm sure that with the original presidents, I mean, obviously, none of this existed, and then over time, there's just been this bureaucratic creep of like, oh, well, with every letter written, we have to You know, make five copies of it, and then run it by these three people, and like, they don't technically do anything, but they way slow things down, and I'm just wondering, like, how much of this can just fully be evaporated, eliminated entirely because it just, it just seems so, so damaging and wrong, and I, it's, but what's so encouraging is it coming into this new administration, I feel like we're seeing The lessons learned.

Another really common theme in H. R. McMaster's book, he never described doing it himself, obviously. But he talked about it happening all the time, which was leaks. Just like, Everything that he was doing privately within the administration just seemed to be getting leaked. I think he thought Steve [00:20:00] Bannon, if memory serves, was like doing a ton of the leaking, just like, but a bunch of people clearly were.

And basically nothing was airtight within the administration. And the same thing happened for example, at the General Services Administration. There was one career lawyer who leaked a draft executive order on federal building architecture, which created a huge media controversy that hindered its implementation.

Similar with the DOJ Civil Rights Division, internal emails mischaracterizing political directives were leaked to the press to generate opposition. And I, I don't think, you can't even count the number of times things were maliciously linked during the Trump administration. So.

Well, I think everyone is seeing, and anybody who is looking at this and is like, oh, this is like nor, this is not normal.

This is, this is the same as stealing an election. This is the same as. It's worse. I

mean. I don't know, like, okay, maybe it's not worse, but it's pretty damn bad. No, it is

really, really bad. You, you cannot like. This is the same as [00:21:00] ignoring democratic processes. This is the same as believing that you have a right to, and keep in mind, all of this is happening in the face of, you know, Blinken, when Trump was elected president throughout different federal offices, they were giving psychology counseling to people because these people couldn't handle that a, a, a, Election, the democratic process that the will of the people was being served, not their will, but the people's will, but their chosen candidate

didn't didn't get elected.

I mean, I recall there used to be some kind of journalistic rule, or at least standard. whereby if you were a journalist, you wouldn't vote because like you wanted to show that you respected your career and your office enough to not have that kind of bias and to not let it steep into your work.

You know, that's failed. If literally counseling is needed, if someone's preferred candidate isn't being elected in the government. If journalists have the decency to not vote. It seems almost irregard that anyone working for the federal government should not be allowed to [00:22:00] vote while holding their position.

So, this is what I'm really worried about now as we're on hiring freezes, for example. So, in Trump's second administration, one of the first things he did was implement a hiring freeze, with, of course, some, like, notable exceptions around, like, Emergency, like national security, medical care, things like that.

So during his first administration, there was a there was a hiring freeze and HHS hiring freeze and yet career staff circumvented that. By backdating start dates on hiring. They worked in pre inauguration dates. They just sharpied out. They get, wait, how are they not arrested for that? That seems extremely illegal.

It does seem extremely illegal. But again, who's going to arrest them? You know, when, when everyone kind of agrees on these things. Yeah. They just don't get prosecuted anymore. I mean, even real legit crimes that everyone can agree are bad. Like that we've, you know, had committed against our company. Don't get prosecuted anymore.

And it hasn't been because of the [00:23:00] Biden administration.

Yep. And then even in the again, back to the, the Dickish national labor relations regional, like the, in this case, regional staff on the national labor relations board manipulated case tracking systems to hide cases from political appointees or ignored directives on union election protocols until explicitly ordered otherwise.

So they were basically just like actively. Actively stonewalling. But I am really concerned, you know, considering that hiring freezes were circumvented in the past. One thing that the Trump administration did this week was put a freeze on grant spending to make sure that the, the grant programs receiving money weren't involved in.

You know, gender ideology or a bunch of other things that the Trump administration says, you know, we have no place spending federal tax dollars on, which I agree with. What I'm concerned about is a similar kind of behavior is like, even if, for example, it is. Full, you know, just seeped with gender ideology, whoever's reporting is going to just [00:24:00] fill out some form or write a cover letter and be like, no, there is no gender.

Yeah, but well, how are they going to get

around that? I mean, like, well, this time, I think we need to, we need to rely a lot on. inside whistleblowers. So people let it, you're sick of this s**t, like letting people know. And I think, you know, all this needs to be taken into context within like the AOC speech recently of like, this is a nation of laws.

Speaker: That remains, that is the law, that is the constitution. And and he just tried to sign a piece of paper saying, trying to say no, we don't have to listen to him. It's illegal. We don't have to treat this seriously. It's a joke. And that's not to say that what they're trying to do isn't serious. It is serious.

Simone Collins: And it's like the laws never apply when it's your side. You don't, it's, it's laws when you can use them to subjugate. People who you disagree with or dehumanize, but the laws are irrelevant when you are in power. And I think that we need to remember, always remember, that that's the way that they [00:25:00] treat the concept of the nation of laws, is that the laws don't apply to them.

And so long as that's the case, And we try to play by their rules of laws and everything like that, then, then it's just never going to work out. You, you have to be as aggressive as possible as what you're talking about. We've already seen it. We've already seen people trying to recategorize what DEI is.

We've seen people try to just change the names of departments, change the names of people's positions. And I think that you know, there's an army of YouTubers out there. There's an army of

Really pissed off citizens and they need to have some sort of like a department where we can drop this information for them and then maybe AI vet it or something to get this so that it can't easily be flooded.

And then you could also have a system where people who have repeatedly dropped good tips, their account gets flagged. So their tips go to the top to make it more

trustworthy.

Well, no, it makes it very hard for the left to just you know, flood it [00:26:00] with bad information.

Yeah.

And if you do that, then you've got a system pretty quickly where it's like, oh yeah, just get this to like the Libs of TikTok account and it will immediately head to the federal government.

That's the way I would handle this.

I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is, this is really important. And it's not just about The Trump administration's agenda being stymied or slowed down. What Cremieux points out in his Substack article, after also summarizing some of the points made in the swamp article is that it literally costs all taxpayers more when a government is misaligned, he actually points out how misaligned civil servants increased procurement costs by about 1 percent of initial contract value.

Contributing 6 percent of the average total cost overruns. He, he points out how there's a correlation between misalignment and delays in contract completion. And how the legal and operational misdirection also costs a lot of money. I mean, [00:27:00] even just thinking about the people who were paid to write legislation, who wrote like about one line a week you know, like this is just, it's a ton of wasted money.

And he also points out that misalignment agencies like the SEC results in politically motivated investigations and penalties against firms that are. With the administration. So just like everyone hurts, you know, this is, this is a really big problem and what we need to keep an eye on, I guess, as all of this goes forward, at least according to Crimea, when he, when he wrote this article is schedule F.

So. There was an executive order issued by Donald Trump in 2020 in October, which is

reissued,

by the way, yeah, yes, yes, because it was rescinded by the Biden administration, which creates a new category of federal civil servant. Position known as schedule F which basically redefines federal workers as at will employees, which is the norm in the United [00:28:00] States at will.

Basically means you can be fired at any point for any reason, just immediately. You know, I, I could call. Anyone who's a net will employee and be like, you're fired and they're gone. And this would do the same to federal workers who cannot do that, which is also insane to me. The, the frustrating thing about the first iteration of schedule F was that no employees were officially moved into the schedule before president Biden revoked the order on January 22nd in

2021.

So it's going to be implemented this time.

Yeah. Now I was coming in on top of this. And so we'll see

These guys are getting super psyched on Trump this time. Last time they got untransformed, they don't know what's gonna hit them, and I'm excited for this. Yeah, I mean, they clearly

didn't expect Trump to win again.

So, I would say, one, whether or not you even like Trump's agenda, you should care about this because it costs you more, it causes damage, it's a huge waste. And also, you know, when your person [00:29:00] is in office someday you don't want them to necessarily have their mandate. Completely stymied by Sorry, Democrats never have a problem with

this, Simone.

As we've seen. This is 100 percent a Republican thing because the D. C. is Democratic. Well,

yeah, except I think a lot of people who identify as Democrats probably also don't love the idea of Asians being discriminated against as college applicants.

The deep state is Democrat in the same way the Democratic Party now is a party of the cult.

There are people who identify, if you identify as like a normal Democrat, you're a Republican now. You're just stupid. I'm just saying like, you're just stupid. You're unaware of like what's actually happening. You're unaware of like actual policies. I think a lot of people

are. I wasn't aware of where the Democrat Party had gone when I first met you and I was still a Democrat.

I just had no idea.

Yeah, well, yeah, and it depends on where you're getting your news and stuff like that. Like, if your head's in the sand, you're just not gonna know that, like Yeah, because you just assume Oh, I'm gay. You've grown up thinking like

Yeah. Like, well, I believe [00:30:00] in, you know, human dignity and flourishing.

So obviously I'm a Democrat. Like that's, that is what I grew up with, Malcolm. I had no idea. Like,

what the f**k way is Trump's administration anti gay? And you're like, well, the I'm sure there's something here, here. I I've got a book. I'm, I'm sure that they'll tell me. And it's like, no, no, I'm asking you not for you to ask other people to tell you, because most of those are lies you know, and I think with a lot of this, it's just that people believe the lies, you know?

Yeah. But yeah, so between schedule F and also just not hiring people as they leave the government, making the government increasingly uncomfortable for them and using AI to fill in the gaps where already competent humans couldn't necessarily completely handle everything. I think could get us through this and make the government a lot more efficient, a lot more effective and a lot less subject to political bias either way, because I believe, I think most voters do, that if a politician gets voted into office with a mandate, he should or she [00:31:00] should be able to execute on that.

So yeah, we'll see. I love you too.

Malcolm Collins: I have to explain to the audience why we got a call from the school today.

Our son, Octavian, is making too many mistakes. And also

finger guns. So finger guns, they got mad at him for finger guns, for finger, not even children, objects were up in the air. Well, I don't know.

Maybe he's aiming it at fellow students.

They would have told you if he was. They want to make this seem as bad as possible.

They also got mad at him for militarized phraseology, which it turns out was the term fire in the hole.

They are, and then they said he tells poop jokes, as a five year old. I'm like, what kind of child abuse is this, where a five year old cannot tell poop jokes? What kind of child abuse is this, where a five year old can't [00:32:00] make finger guns?

I think every,

every human Has to learn how to behave with a certain level of decorum in certain environments. And that is what separates people who are worthy of respect and high office from people who can't stay out of jail. Hold on,

I'll let you in on something.

He's being five. Well, I know, but I'll also like as I was saying that I was thinking about how Congress changed its dress code.

So that yeah, for betterment, right? What do you even wear? Hoodies and shorts into

and I'd also point out in regards to all of this, that if the teacher had called me. So terrified she might have, I would have been like, oh, I see where the confusion is. Let me explain to you how a gun works and why finger guns are not dangerous.

Oh my God, Malcolm, he wanted to go. He wanted to go to mainstream school and kindergarten. He needs to learn how to play by those [00:33:00] rules. And he will get kicked out if we can't teach him how to play the rules.

He'd say like, oh he's making poop jokes. I mean, what kind of jokes should a five year old be making, ma'am?

Do you, are you going to teach him the finer etiquette of like advanced jokeology? Yeah, let's, let's teach him dirty limericks. That's

far more.

He's not even making like anti women jokes or cootie jokes or something. It's poop jokes. They're like, so inoffensive.

I don't know what to say. Okay.

Well, I do. And it's that you guys are a bunch of disgusting hippies.

This episode covers the key actions and achievements of the Trump administration, focusing on immigration enforcement, deportations, and the administration's stance on sanctuary cities. The discussion dives into the impacts of these policies, including the handling of illegal immigrants with criminal backgrounds and the effect of sanctuary policies on local communities. The conversation also touches on broader topics like voter ID laws, the World Health Organization, and energy policies. Additionally, we explore the administration's efforts to dismantle DEI programs and promote merit-based initiatives.

The song:

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. In this episode, we are going to be going through just a a summation for anyone who has been out of the picture of all of the major things that the Trump administration has been implementing. It has, from an outsider's perspective, just been win after win after win. I have been incredibly like, wow.

Like I didn't even know it was possible for a president to be this effective. And we are going to start with ICE. So ICE has made an average of 710 immigration arrests daily for the first few days of Trump's term. This is up from 311 under president Biden. Now, I am going to be showing you a series of videos about the types of people who are being arrested under this.

And so two things here, right? So first,

Speaker: And they say, you know, oh, this law, we need to be able to deport people who have committed violent crimes.

That is the law of the land presently.

for I [00:01:00] knew that even though some of you supported us, some others were looking at me and thinking, You're a liar!

You're a liar!

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Except when you actually see the people being arrested, it not only isn't criminals, but it's criminals who have obviously had the government covering for them.

I mean, if you are an illegal immigrant to the United States, and the government knows you're an illegal immigrant, and you've had 17 previous conventions. Seventeen! Seventeen. Is one guy. And this guy thanked Biden. He thanked Obama. You know, the government is clearly covering for you at this point, right?

Like this is not normal.

Speaker 14: I'm not going back to Haiti. One of those threats is this illegal alien from Haiti.

Speaker 12: I says he's a gang member with 17 criminal convictions in recent years. You feel me? You're fighting forever, bro. Thank Obama for everything that he did for me.

Malcolm Collins: And I'd like you to consider all of these people, you know, in the context of the Jan six protesters [00:02:00] who, you know, in a peaceful protest were arrested because some people was in the protests were violent. That is broadly what happened at that protest.

And I would like to edify those of you who still happen to be misinformed about what happened that day. There was no way for the vast majority of protesters to know they were not allowed inside the building. In fact, all evidence to them, given that we now have video of the Capitol guards giving tours of the Capitol building to the protesters, every bit of evidence would have suggested that they were allowed in there and that the Capitol guards had let people in there.

And that they have been in jail.

They had families, kids at home for four years. Okay. Jobs. Do you know what that does to your career? Do you know what that does to your family? When you have a especially a stay at home wife and like four kids, like as some of them did, like this is horrifying that this sort of political prisoner banana republic situation with allowed.

Now you look at what they have been protecting and allowing. Okay. And so if you want to react to some of these

Speaker 12: Within moments, the [00:03:00] officers are on the move with eyes on their first target. Looks like we got movement target vehicle coming up.

They quickly take him into custody. He's an MS 13 gang member wanted in El Salvador for aggravated murder. Okay. and he has an interpol red notice out for his arrest.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my gosh. Yeah, El Salvador wants this guy back for murder. So there was

Simone Collins: like, there's an open warrant.

out for him and he's just walking around in the U. S. Oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 12: Ice Boston quickly takes down its next targets, including this illegal alien from Brazil, who has an interpol red notice for armed robbery. This Salvadoran illegal alien charged locally with rape and released by a sanctuary jurisdiction and this Dominican illegal alien charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

And heroin trafficking

Simone Collins: Oh, This is concerning. So do we just [00:04:00] not honor like warrants for people?

Like what's going on here? No, it's that

Malcolm Collins: the government actively, if you are the right skin color, they will actively attempt to protect you no matter what you have done. So if this were a white citizen,

Simone Collins: do

Malcolm Collins: you think they would have been arrested? 1, 000%. If they were a white legal citizen, they would have been arrested.

This is 100 percent about a multi tiered society of rights. If you are one skin color, one class you get a and keep in mind, this isn't for every one of these skin colors. If you have to fit in these certain categories, like, oh, you know, illegal immigrant or something like that.

Sorry, I should clarify here that the Democrats do control the black ethnic identity. So if you do anything undemocratic, it gets revoked. So for example, if you are leading the Proud Boys, for example, your black card is completely revoked and now

You're a white supremacist because apparently white supremacist just means anyone who does not go along with whatever the authoritarians tell them.

You get these debit cards that pay for your lifestyle.

You get your housing paid for. [00:05:00] You can rape people all you want. You can be in gangs, you can be in, none of the laws apply to you. If you are a working person in the United States and you go on a peaceful protest, you can be in jail for four years. This is a society, and as I've said this, this will be remembered alongside the Jim Crow laws.

This is a society where Your human dignity, the amount that society is supposed to affirm you, is determined by your ethnicity your immigration status, your, I mean, imagine if one of these people was trans, right? They're definitely not going to jail. So, Here's one

Speaker 12: officers also arrested this Guatemalan MS 13 gang member facing gun charges. ICE says he was released from local custody just the day before their detainer request was ignored because of sanctuary policies

Malcolm Collins: He was actually even released from local custody the day before, and they had denied the detainer request from, from ICE, saying, hey, let us know where you're releasing this guy. [00:06:00] Oh. So that we can pick him up. Gun charges and a known MS 13 gang member. This is one of the most dangerous gangs in the United States.

They are actively supporting the gangs over helping American citizens at this point. We need massive clean out. And there was another incident here of

Speaker 12: We also learned after we were done filming that ice picked up another target on the other side of the city.

This was a previously deported Honduran illegal alien who was arrested locally and is facing charges for raping a woman while holding a gun in her mouth.

Malcolm Collins: And the police were protecting him.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow. That, that, I wish, I wish we could, are there interviews with these people, like, justifying why they did this? I want to under, I really, really want to understand, like, what their perception of reality, like, do they, do they believe that these [00:07:00] charges are not true, perhaps?

Do they, like, I just want to understand how they could be allowing this to happen.

Malcolm Collins: They 100 percent believe the charges are true. A lot of they, they were involved in a lot of the charges. These are local police departments. They just Do you think this is

Simone Collins: similar to the grooming gangs? Where it was like, well, we don't want to cause a race riot.

No,

Malcolm Collins: it's not even that they don't want to cause a race riot. If you believe that, that is a lie. Yeah, like you've bought into the lie already. It's just, I want to understand

Simone Collins: what these people are thinking because I'm telling you

Malcolm Collins: what they believe. They believe that if you are a certain skin color, you should be allowed to grape with impunity.

No, I, I just

Simone Collins: don't think people believe that. That's, that's crazy. That's the highest degree.

Malcolm Collins: Simone, because I think that you're, you're buying into their BS. Okay. They believe very, very, very strongly of this. So they might say, if you worded it to them, grape with impunity, they'd be like, I don't believe that.

And then we'd be like, here is a person who was like caught graping. Do you believe that the state should have the right to [00:08:00] imprison them? They'd say no. Do you believe that the state should have the right to punish them? They'd say no. Because of their skin color. Because they'd say like, oh well, you know, that's the way it works.

And, and, and, and, you know, this is the way it always is. With, with, with this sort of like Jim Crow stuff. With this sort of, you know, different laws for different ethnicities. And if you look at this, you know, you can look at the Selena Gomez. Did you see her crying thing? No, the actress? Yeah, where she put out this crying video about how my people are being rounded up and then she deleted it.

Speaker 20: I just want to say that I'm so sorry. All my people are getting attacked. The

Malcolm Collins: And here I can only guess, why are you, why are you protecting the grapists here? Like, they're like, oh, it's innocent people. And it's like, well, why are there these people with 17 convictions of it's innocent people? You know, if you cared about the innocent people, you should have been getting rid of these people.

Because these people were in the shelters with the innocent people. [00:09:00] You didn't care about the innocent people. But I get you, Selena Gomez, your people, you're P. Diddy's people, right? You're in it with all the grape ists, right? You just can't wait to get the grape in again, can ya? Just a day away from grape.

You're like, people can't resist going on a grape tour of the U. S. Well, why can't I do that? That's, that's Selena Gomez's people. And if you look at the, the, the cities in the US, like the Bambi Larson, who was murdered by an illegal immigrant who had six retainer requests, this means that I said, said, hey, can we take this person out?

Can we take this person out? And these, what do you call them? Sanctuary city. If they're saying, no, we won't let you.

So, in California, major cities like this, you know, not just people are dying. People are, are, are committing homicide. People are committing great. People are committing arson and they're being protected by the local jails.

And you know what happens as a result of this, because I still needs to operate in these cities. There's still ice people in these cities. This is why innocent. people are innocent as they [00:10:00] are. I mean, being an illegal immigrant is a crime. Are the ones being picked up in these cities because we can't get the people in the jails.

ICE is asking you for the people in the jails. You're saying no. When you say no to the people in the jails, you force your local ICE to go to the people who are lower down their list.

Simone Collins: The

Malcolm Collins: people in their homes. Wow. This is, this is whenever you hear of an innocent person being deported, that is because of the sanctuary laws.

Ask your, I know, ask, ask, what city are they in? Almost every single time you will see they were in a sanctuary city.

Simone Collins: Really? Gosh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and when we talk about things like voter ID and stuff like that and how corrupt this whole system is there's been a, a, a fake draft of

But

you

know, you know,

Republicans always lose them, right?

The real numbers are almost as bad of the 49 states called as of November 8th. [00:11:00] Harris won 19, including only seven with voter ID statutes. Okay. Whereas of the 30 states that Trump won , 28 had voter ID statutes.

Simone Collins: Oh Lord.

Malcolm Collins: You basically cannot win in a, because I mean, there's no reason you would have that.

That's like an insane thing. It just prevents Republicans from winning, but let's talk about the whole Columbia debacle, because I loved this. This was hilarious. Trump sends down two big military planes full of illegal immigrants, okay?

And the Colombian president, you know, trying to act all tough sends him back. And Trump says, okay, you want to play tough, buddy? We're going to do a 25 percent starting today tariff on all Colombian goods.

It goes up to 50 percent next week. Everyone who's connected to your family immediately loses any protection in the United States. Visas in the United States. And we're doing all these overturns on stuff. I, I, what were some of the other things he did? I, I can't remember [00:12:00] them all. It was a lot.

Simone Collins: With Columbia.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: I mean, the biggest thing was that Trump was like, well, all right, well, I hope you enjoy

Malcolm Collins: tariffs and travel bans. He did travel bans on Columbia. He did yeah, he was going

Simone Collins: to basically slap. He was going to make an example of Columbia because one, it would be really bad if precedent was set. That countries could just refuse to receive their citizens back.

And Trump really stomped down on that really quickly. And then the next thing you know, the Colombian president is offering to fly over the presidential plane to pick up

Malcolm Collins: people. I love that. What a simp was his tail between his legs. Presidential plane to pick up the immigrants after that. I mean, Trump knows what he's doing this time.

The Colombian president

Simone Collins: was also making a politically savvy move by basically saying like, Oh, you know, the United States is sending these people over handcuffed and, you know, uncomfortable and [00:13:00] treating them terribly. I'm going to treat them great. Oh, hold on. Let's see what he had to say.

Malcolm Collins: About the people who did come over.

Okay. Okay. He goes this was recently after he did accept them. He goes, they're, they are not criminals. Being a migrant is not a crime. And I'm like, oh, okay. Being an illegal migrant is not a crime. If they're asylum seekers, Mr. President. Are you saying that they are asylum seekers?

Are you saying that you have turned your country into such a sh hole? Or that they are so afraid of you and your government that it's not a crime that they're illegal immigrants? Oh, oh, you're not saying that? Then yeah, it absolutely is a crime, sir. And we know from the other stat that they likely are criminals.

My bet is you just made this up. Up, because you seem like a really shitty person and your own country thinks that. That's why your polling is so low. [00:14:00] Sorry. Ouch.

Simone Collins: You

gotta twist the microphone. Of

Malcolm Collins: Americans, 65 percent of Americans are strongly in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who have been convicted of a violent crime.

Well, yeah! Are somewhat in favor

Simone Collins: when also the evidence really backs this up. Near the, the end of last year, there was some really great subsequent posts. I think even Scott Alexander did one on crime and punishment and what actually lowers levels of crime. And what I came away from all this reading was basically Deterrents don't really work, you know, threatening jail doesn't really work, but removing people from the population can make us somewhere a safer place.

And there's something about deportation of anyone who commits any kind of crime, just so great because it's, it's not like they're even in prison. We're not paying for them to be in prison. They're just not here anymore. And that's kind of the most important thing. With criminals isn't [00:15:00] really what happens to them.

Like if we're talking about the well being of a state, right? And these are people and everyone matters, blah, blah, blah, right? But like, if we're only talking about the well being of a community, the only thing that matters is, is the criminal here or is the criminal not here? And not here is what you want.

It doesn't matter if they're being punished or trained or you know, taught or given more resources. No, you just really don't want them to be here anymore. Especially if they're a repeat offender, in which case, yeah. So, this is great. I mean, deportations are amazing. You know, they're not rotting in jail.

Malcolm Collins: But I'd also point out how rare this ideology is that has taken over our government and our you know, court system. If you look at the amount of Americans who are in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who are convicted of a violent crime 65 percent strongly in favor, 18 percent somewhat in favor, 10 percent neither oppose or are in favor, only 4 percent oppose.

Only 4 percent oppose this. And yet this was the law of [00:16:00] our land under the Biden administration. If you do not think when you're like regular Democrats, it's like, well, regular Democrats don't represent the portion of the party in the deep state or that control the democratic party apparatus anymore. And there's been some recent news around NYC fixing itself, by the way.

And I can put some clips here.

Speaker 30: So, as of October 31st, New York had 212 asylum shelters scattered throughout the city, but it looks like that's about to change. As the city just did a major 180 and announced plans to shut 25 of them.

Speaker 31: NewsNAtion is now confirming some Migrants are starting to leave on their own, attempting to self deport ahead of the second Trump presidency.

Speaker 34: At the peak, 17 months ago, the city was welcoming 4, 000 migrants per week, but things have dramatically changed. Last week, less than 400 showed up, and about 1, 000 left.

Speaker 35: Migrants who are going through their asylum proceedings are actually cutting things short on their own,

Speaker 30: this city is about to become a battleground where a civil war of [00:17:00] sorts over immigration will break out. As the mayor tries to carry out policies the majority now say they're in favor of without the approval of local lawmakers who are proud of our sanctuary city status and will stop at nothing to make sure it survives even if it doesn't actually help people.

Because law abiding immigrants, which include asylum seekers with a legal right to remain in America while their court case plays out, do not benefit from a sanctuary city. They can reside anywhere they want without fear. But that's not the case for gang members, criminals, terror, watch lists, suspects,

Malcolm Collins: But nature is healing which is to say that the NYC system is shutting down the shelters. I mean, they were a sanctuary state, right? And what people don't understand is, is if you are a legal immigrant, you don't need to be in a sanctuary state. You know, if you're not like MNS 13, if you're not a violent criminal, you don't need to be in one of these places.

And so, these were only places for people who broke the law. And so it created essentially grape houses. I don't know what to call them other than that. When you went to one of these New York shelters, that's what you were going in for because they were controlled by [00:18:00] the gangs. You know, they were controlled by these really bad people who New York was protecting because again, they had developed these systems that, that were just built on the systematic dehumanization of people based on their ethnicity.

Awful. Now let's talk about other things he's done, right? Some other fun, fun, fun stuff. He initiated steps to withdraw from the World Health Organization,

which as we know from you know, any evidence on this is basically a Chinese organization at this point. We saw this during COVID. We saw this was the COVID coverup. It was horrifying. He criticized Ukraine's president for not seeking dialogue with Russia. Absolutely valid at this point. What does Ukraine think they're going to win their land back?

Like how is that even going to work at this point? Right? Like the war right now is just a life lost by the day thing. Signed an executive order promoting energy resource use [00:19:00] in Alaska. So good for it with it. I don't, Alaska is a big place. You're not going to like, what are you going to do? Make some fish go extinct.

Like I'll never understand the complaints about like oil pipelines in Alaska. It's like, yes. What, what do you want to put the oil on cars? Cause that's what it's going on now. That is way worse for the environment.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but I mean, well,

when I was a kid and I heard about oil pipelines, in a negative light, of course, my assumption was there are these leaky pipes running through parks, you know, there's like, just like pools of oil around them. Little, little did I know that these are very sophisticated systems with very, very strong and smart leak detection sensors, so that instantly They don't want to lose the

Malcolm Collins: oil!

Simone Collins: No, the oil is expensive, but also like they're legally required to be extremely careful about environmental impact. And yeah, it's a lot less, the carbon footprint of oil that has been moved along in a pipeline is a lot lower than [00:20:00] oil that has been moved along by a truck. And, you know, the, the accident danger, it's, it's, it's also scary.

I mean, you and I, whenever we're on a road and we see a giant oil tanker going around. Yeah, there's also a potential cost to human life from trucks. Yes, it's a giant bomb moving around. It's nuts.

Malcolm Collins: The people who are against this are just that category of Democrat who just does not care about reality. They, they only want to win their aesthetic fights and they don't care about the damage they're doing to the environment.

Because I don't even think the Democrats are the party of the environment anymore. Like, Republicans are the party of like actual environmentalism now. But haven't they been, you know, since Teddy Roosevelt, right?

So I was looking for a Captain Planet clip that involved oil to somehow work into this and then I found this horrifying Captain Planet clip I am compelled to share with you.

I just don't get why people bring kids into the world when they can't provide for them. Although population numbers in less developed nations may be greater, a child in a developed country [00:21:00] uses up to 30 times more resources than a child in a less developed nation. That is amazing. It seems unfair.

Wheeler, you and Linka have too many kids. It must stop, if we ever were to get married. What? How many kids would you want to have? Why? Because I definitely don't want more than two.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway they revoked the ban on oil and gas development in federal waters because why would we be against that?

Like we, we need to exploit those resources. One of the most important things to geopolitical global stability has been our oil recently. That's why the Russia oil ban cutoff was possible at all was because of the amount of oil that the U S is producing now. And, and who does it hurt when we produce more oil?

It hurts the Middle Eastern countries. It hurts Russia. It hurts Venezuela. No good guys are hurt in the process of the making of this [00:22:00] product. They streamline permitting for energy projects and reviewing regulations on energy production. Temporary withdraws all areas of the outer coastal shelf from consideration , offshore wind leasing and halts the insurance of new renewable options, permit leases and loans for both offshore and onshore wind projects.

I am a hundred percent about this wind project stuff. When projects are in, like, if you can make them cash positive, go for it. But offshore wind things like this is just pointless. Go nuclear. What are you doing? Thoughts on wind stuff, Simone, the little bird blenders.

Simone Collins: I mean, it's, it's cool, but it's not the most effective thing we can be doing.

So from a cost effectiveness standpoint, it's just a lot harder to justify things like offshore wind farms. Very, very expensive to develop.

Malcolm Collins: So now to other things, he did the hiring freeze. He then goes to everyone and he goes, Hey, I'll pay you till September. So what is that like eight months? [00:23:00] Yeah, and he says if you decide to resign now, I can't promise your job will still be here then but You know if you want to keep your job, we are trying to close down a lot of departments right now We have finally instituted the schedule f program Which the Biden administration shut through it down before it could be fully implemented, which thank God it's finally here now.

So if you don't know what Schedule F is, it recategorizes some federal jobs as at will employment, which we absolutely need to do. We're going to do another episode after this one on just how bad the deep state has gotten. That will chill you to the bone. The government. Needs to be gutted. It needs to be gutted like Twitter was gutted, okay?

Everyone, remember when everyone was like, Oh, the Twitter, you can't fire 98 percent of people, it'll stop working! And now everyone's like, eh, it's actually kind of better than it's ever been. Yeah. That's, that's what we need here, okay? And people are like, no, it's not better than it's ever been.

It's like, ah, the community [00:24:00] notes feature is definitely better. And I remember some downtime early on. I haven't heard of downtime on Twitter in a long time.

Simone Collins: No, absolutely not. Yeah, no, it's, it's fine.

Malcolm Collins: It didn't need those people. They just sabotaged X when they left removing parts of the code base, which is what caused that downtime.

It wasn't due to the lack of staff. It was

Simone Collins: active sabotage. Oh my gosh.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: didn't know that. That's crazy. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They, they, they, they didn't have documentation on things or they took the documentation they had and they, they left parts of the code base like basically really vulnerable. Some of them, it looks like may have actively attacked the code base after leaving.

So, yeah, it was, it was ridiculous, and we'll see this with the government when we get rid of 98%, which is what I'm hoping for here, okay, buddy? I love, they keep trying to drive a wedge between Trump and Elon, if you've seen it, with all of these things and it doesn't appear to be working at all. He reversed the binary protections on transgender individuals in the military and he did this. I love it. If you [00:25:00] read the order, it says, because I almost swear somebody must watch our podcast. It said, because being transgender is incompatible with the selfless, disexpected of a military professional.

And that's so funny.

Simone Collins: I mean, as

Malcolm Collins: we said on this podcast, you know, the, the, the biggest complaint we have against transgenderism outside of the increased risk in an aliving oneself that comes with a belief system that doesn't have any correlatory in any other culture in human history. So it's very clearly a culturally tied phenomenon.

Yes, there are different gender expressions, but there is no example anywhere of a sudden obsession or not even sudden, but an obsession at all with people seeing you as a different gender. Sure. And, and then being willing to unalive yourself or threatening to unalive yourself that people don't see yourself at the different gender.

This is not a thing. So like, obviously, right.

So this is a memetic virus and not a natural part of the human condition, specifically this obsession with your gender and wanting to unalive yourself if people don't affirm that gender.

And [00:26:00] once you have caught this memetic contagion, you have a 50 percent chance of attempting to unalive yourself. That's a huge deal. Like, I don't understand how people can be like, Oh, this is a completely benign thing, or like, just let them think what they want to think about themselves. It's like, well, it appears to be a completely culturally isolated contagion, and it's correlated with a 50 percent chance of not wanting to be alive anymore.

Of course I'm going to have concerns about this spreading.

But this obsession was validation. I mean, we all want validation, right? And these people basically found a hack to force the community to validate them. And they undergo enormous financial emotional costs to achieve this validation, but I see that as a sign.

These individuals fundamentally haven't dedicated their lives to other people, but have lives dedicated to the way other people see that just because of the cost involved in it, the way things work right now. And then he also was talking about deployment. He's like, look,

the government's going to pay for this surgery. Then it's eight months [00:27:00] to recover from it. And we already have this giant problem with people saying, Oh, I can't deploy because of medical reasons. Which apparently a big problem in the military right now, if you have all of these, you know, medical surgeries are, is that not going to be even more plausible and you're not going to see even a higher rate of that.

And keep in mind. This only makes up 0. 1 percent of our military. So again, I don't see what's like why we're trying to prevent this. It does seem fundamentally incompatible with, again, to not say, yes, I understand I would prefer people seeming at the other gender. Yes, I would prefer but I don't need to undergo all of these costs.

I don't need to force it by the government to pay all these costs. I don't need to force everyone to against their consent. See me a certain way. Validate me a certain way. You know, I think, Simone, what you said that was so good is the difference between gay rights is gay rights is saying I want the right to be able to get married and act in a way that just doesn't feel unnatural for me, [00:28:00] whereas transgenderism is I want to what they're fighting for now is I want to be able to force you using law and legal statute to act in a way that feels uncomfortable to you.

And this is a gendering. This is a, and I think that that's just like, yeah, this is, this is clearly a lack of selflessness that would lead anyone to think that this is normal behavior. And then we saw that at the highest levels of the military under Biden with the you know, the, the generals and stuff like that.

Thoughts on this before we go further.

Simone Collins: No, I'm just glad we're seeing so much pushback already from the Trump administration on all these things.

Malcolm Collins: And I note here, you could be a trans, you could be a transgender individual and be a good person. You could be a Scientologist and a good person, but I don't want Scientologists at the top level of the military, right? But the point being is, is if you know Scientologists and I know Scientologists, they are perfectly nice people.

I am still deeply suspicious of them and their motivations when I'm interacting with them. It's the same with transgender individuals. I think that [00:29:00] they're very nice people. I don't think it's their fault that they got sucked into this ideology. , and I feel really, really bad for them, but we have to think about the people it hurts next, you know, and we need to think about.

Where are their motivations and loyalty? And what have they signaled through costly signaling about the way they've chosen to live their lives?

I'd also note here that Trunk struck a significant blow to transgender surgery for children, specifically in the order protecting children from chemical and surgical mutilation. Specifically, what this did is it prevents federal funding, sponsorship, promotion, or assistance for gender transition procedures.

It limits these to 19 years old. So you have to be over 19 years old for this to be relevant. So keep in mind, he's still allowing federal funding for transgender procedures over 19 years old. Like people who act like he's like radically anti trans are just delusional. , he's not like trying to even not [00:30:00] erase trans people or stop transgender surgery.

He's just saying, wait until you're old enough to make, you know, the decision to get a tattoo. , the order targets puberty blockers, hormone therapy, surgical procedures, and related gender transition , it attacks, , federal health programs including Medicare, Medicaid, and TRICARE for military families that are to exclude coverage for gender affirming care for minors.

, and , federal agencies are instructed to ensure that recipients of research or education grants do not provide gender Procedures to minors. This is gonna be a big problem for universities that are all in on this stuff.

The order mandates a review of guidelines from World Professional Association for Transgender Health, WPATH, which it dismisses as quote unquote junk science, which we now know it is because we have the WPATH leaks. And we know that they were just lying. Lying, and like, why, why have every country thrown this out?

And I'd add to the thing we're talking about trans people earlier. I I'd note here like especially with trans youth we now know from the gender disconnectedness and non conforming news 2023 study that more than nine out of ten trans [00:31:00] people at the age of 11 identify with their birth gender by age 23 This this this thing is just a fad that people end up long term identifying with if it is affirmed in them.

That's that's the core thing that that it's the problem. It's the affirmation and and unfortunately this sucks for individuals who bought into this and now have trouble disassociating themselves with this new identity and the affirmation they're getting from it.

Simone Collins: But

Malcolm Collins: it's killing people, you know, and there's nothing, there's nothing, you know, we need to at some point say, well, yes, I understand you leper, like, I have nothing against you, but you're still infectious, right?

Like, You're killing people at this point and, and, and you deserve to be loved in your leopard colony, but we need to try to save as many humans as possible at this point, right? And, and if it's causing this level of mental distress, and yet it does not appear to be a, it appears to be a very transitory, very non permanent thing when it's not being affirmed That, to me, just leaves me with very few options.

The next is we have [00:32:00] the, steps to dismantle diversity. Oh, we'll get to that next. He rescinded policies requiring federal contractors to promote affirmative action or diversity programs.

And then also it put like a spending ban on everything that was going to DEI programs, anything that was promoting abortion, anything that was promoting you know, any of these, these, and

Simone Collins: I don't know. He put a, he put a spending freeze on all federal grant programs, period, to make sure that they were devoid of those things before receiving our money.

Malcolm Collins: But he's, he's, he's, he's done more than that. So he, in the executive order, Trump signed terminating DEI programs and policies and activities within, sorry

With the

Simone Collins: exception of Medicaid, which is still up and running but other, other grant programs.

Malcolm Collins: So the administration, as it has shut down these DEI programs, has moved to merit based systems, quote, ones that work on individual initiative, skills, performance, hard work, over diversity, considering in, uh, publications Agencies are required to compile a [00:33:00] list of all the contractors and grantees involved in DEI activities since 2021.

Oh, you know, they're going to drag their legs and try to burn those records. These lists will inform recommendations. So they're basically, and people have been freaking out about this because a lot of these DEIers, they've been quote unquote, put on lists. If you look at their YouTubes and stuff like that, they are.

panicking. They are losing their jobs. They are already because this has hit hard and fast and I think a lot faster than any of them really anticipated this hitting them. They have been attempting to find ways to rename their programs, which has been a common thing or rename their positions as we have seen a number of times.

I have mentioned in another episode that it's going to go live after this, where I think that the way to handle this is to put out a tips program. And the tips program works like this because, you know, Jim's are going to try to flood it. Anyone who has given a good tip and you might even be able to get your tip like boosted.

By connections to [00:34:00] certain like known people. So what the government might do is go out and sort of anoint people as vetters. So this could be like libs of tick tock. This could be like, you know, various people like this, right? Like well known Cremieux or us or any other number of accounts that are out there.

You can even have like a Joe Rogan water, but basically various intermediate influencer accounts, right? So these intermediate invalids are accounts to prevent the Dems from flooding. It can upvote or downvote things as soon as one goes through. If it is a good lead, it ends up in something being done.

They get flagged and anything they sent immediately goes to the top of the pile. And so this creates a system that Democrats can't easily. Impede, but it creates a distributed network out to the average American where when you see D. E. I. Being done in some company that's getting federal grants or some company that's a federal contractor, which I think is what they should be focused on next.

You know, you. Can easily whistle blow on this especially if it's under a different [00:35:00] name And I think the other thing they did that is really really smart is compile lists and I would go further I think all of these lists need to be made public So any company that wants to be anti dei can look to find any of these companies any of these individuals being hired People need to know that if they were involved in this racist This grift, this sexist grift, this modern Jim Crow itization, that they will face punishment.

That they will face long term ramifications for their institutionalization of racism within America.

Thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: Yeah, my biggest concern, because we actually saw a lot of the preemptive naming even before inauguration of various teams, is that we might see a ton of circumvention on this front. And that's, that's something I'm a little bit concerned about.

I, I really, and honestly, [00:36:00] political witch hunts, I'm not that interested in them. I'm more just interested in if someone's not helping to move things forward, why are they there in the first place?

Malcolm Collins: I disagree. We need a witch hunt on this because these are witches. They are spreading a dark and, and, and racist ideology throughout the bureaucratic parts of American society.

And we, as I said, I think the best way to fight this is for 4chan to unholster their autism and go full hog on this.

Simone Collins: Maybe, yeah, maybe that's what needs to happen. I mean, I'm much more interested in, like, actually having people in the federal government do work. I'm actually interested in, like, you know, getting rid of bureaucratic layers of Nonsense.

In addition to, of course, actively hostile agents for sure. But I think that we're, we're seeing that we're seeing that with the hiring freeze, we're seeing that with like the OMB is coming in. The office of budget is coming in strong. And I, I really think that this time around they are going to get so much done.

Already they've been very excited. I'm so

Malcolm Collins: excited for the OMB this time. [00:37:00] Yeah. So, If you're thinking about the private sector, you're like, okay, but this is only going to affect the government sector. So while the administration cannot mandate private companies to abandon their DEI policies, the executive order encourages them to do so by framing such policies as potentially violating federal rights laws.

The order directs the attorney general to explore enforcement methods against companies engaging in illegal discrimination through D. E. I. Practices framing D. E. I. Is illegal. The order characterizes. Okay, then threats of investigations. The attorney general is directed to identify up to 9 potential civil compliance investigation target.

at large companies, non profits, and educational institutions. What a great, be specific! I want nine large examples made. That's gonna create a chilling effect. Way to go, Trump! Create uncertainty. The order's vague language about illegal DEI has led companies to seek counsel and review their DEI policies.

Oh! [00:38:00] Oh, chilling effect. The threat of being a target has caused some companies to preemptively scale back into EI initiatives. I mean, the big one we need to get is Google. I want Google to erase all of this. They have shown through their AI and everything like that. Google should be one of America's true champions.

It should be our. Fight and and and bulwark against the evils of china and russia and all of the various Technological competitors we have on the world stage And yet when you look at its idiotic ai that it keeps putting out that it's been systemically racist. You know inserting black people into pictures of history and everything like that like uh, if it did that for any other ethnicity people would be like wow, this is like Created by a racist totalitarian state.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think the thesis of Richard Hanania's book about wokeism is that it emanated from the government. And I don't think you and I really agree that much [00:39:00] with that thesis. I mean, yeah, things happened within the government that had influence, but it was more of a cultural shift. Still, it is interesting to see that already this new administration has had this profound of an impact.

On the private sector.

Yes.

I mean, just from the people who showed up on inauguration day to the organizational shifts, we're already starting to see, it's clear that people are following the lead of the U. S. government, which I don't know, from like an operational standpoint is not something I'm used to seeing.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And I think that the next thing that we should seriously consider is well, you know, it's funny when you watch the mass deportations and everything like this, one of the things I'm seeing now, people, people in the UK, they're like, wait. Can we do this? People in Canada are like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

This was an option. Can we, can we look at implementing a little bit of this as well? I think around the world, what we're seeing is a, Oh, Oh yeah, [00:40:00] maybe we should look into this a little bit. And I think if they don't, what we're going to see in, in Canada and stuff like this, yes, people will be fleeing out of the U S, but a lot of them are going to be fleeing into Canada.

We see

Simone Collins: illegal

Malcolm Collins: immigrants beginning. Well, because you got places like New York right now that are like tightening down on everything. And, and they're actually dealing with massive immigrant outflows right now because they have learned that you know, maybe we shouldn't be acting as a safe haven for criminals.

And then especially

Simone Collins: with their current spending problems, it's worrisome.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You know, they're looking at a state collapse. And as I mentioned in a previous episode, one of the things the U. S. should do, because this was talked about in the previous episode, I really think it's a good idea is the U.

S. Should go to Alberta and say, Hey, why don't you guys do a referendum on who wants to join the U. S. And if we can get an overwhelming referendum in Alberta You have two things. First, the Canadian government's going to freak out because they've been milking Alberta of all their money. Like, Alberta basically [00:41:00] supports the rest of Canada at this point.

Alberta hates the way Canada is being run. They're basically treated like a surf class by the rest of the country forced to make money. I mean, Canada is like these little places that are like the capital in the Hunger Games. And then Alberta that's actually producing all of their money and food and energy.

That's, that's like, oh, well, those hick people, you know. I've always joked, it's not a surprise that the trans crowd literally dresses like they're from the Capitol in the Hunger Games. Like, it is, you can't be pro this class and pro the working man, you know, you gotta choose one, are you for the oppressor or for the oppressed, you know?

But anyway so you, you get these, this Alberta, and if you could get Alberta voting, let's say, like, 70%. Or something like that. I think we could to join the U. S. You have a great casabelly to move troops in there. And I think that what you might be able to negotiate as a trump is a payout for it.

It would probably be a decent payout, but I think that [00:42:00] Canada would have a really hard time if you're offering both money. The people of the district don't want to be part of Canada anymore. You've already moved, you know, troops into the district. Mhm. I think it'd be really hard for Canada to push against it at this point, especially when, you know, you point out the crimes that the Canadian government is being is allowing to happen there.

When you point out the scale of the injustice that the Canadian government continues to allow to be purported against its own citizens. And the Canada doesn't really have a future of anything. contiguous was what it used to be. I mean, everybody sees it's a small chunk like Alberta. Most might, but most of it doesn't.

And, and this is why the unaliving rates are so high in Canada right now. It's because nobody sees a future with the existing regime. And I think that what could be a bigger wake up call than when, when they see, and at the very least, if you did this. If they didn't end up moving into the United States, what you're going to see in the next election cycle is people being like, Hey, like, we actually need to treat our conservative seriously [00:43:00] because they don't want to be here anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think in the future, you know, maybe not immediately, immediately that we're already starting to see it as more and more capital flight. As people become less anchored to geographical areas, so it's just going to accelerate the decline. There are so many factors that will make civilization and governmental declines happen so much faster than anyone thinks.

Like, people expect, I think, for there to be multiple warning signs, when instead, by the time you really realize it's happening, it's already too late. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: no, absolutely.

Anyway so what do you want to do for dinner tonight? Simone, am I going to reheat that chicken I had the other day? Or that's probably bad at this point.

Simone Collins: I probably wouldn't have it. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: then, let's go for you like chicken

Simone Collins: curry? Do

Malcolm Collins: you prefer

Simone Collins: chicken curry, or do you want air fryer chicken?

Malcolm Collins: Air fryer chicken.

Okay, you're gonna cook chicken tonight, right?

Simone Collins: Not [00:44:00] Fresh. Oh, I tried to thaw some out. So maybe I can I it depends on what the status of the chicken I'm trying to thaw out is. Yeah, I thought you were

Malcolm Collins: thawing some out.

Simone Collins: I was but every time I check on it, it's still like ice cube stage. So I don't know what's going on there.

That might actually make it easier for me to read it, depending on just how frozen it is. But if it is frozen, then I need to reheat. If it is not, then I will do something else. Does that work for you? By

Malcolm Collins: the way, that works for me. Those are wondering, we've been, our entire family has been out with the flu for about a week.

We haven't been this sick since we got married, I, I think not at the same time. Yeah. And it's been really difficult for us. And that's why my cheek's all puffy and everything. We don't know what's causing this. It could be an abscess. It could be a. Months, it could be any number of things. At first I thought it was swollen lymph nodes, but we don't know now.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but we'll get

Malcolm Collins: better. Yeah. And people are like, wait, why are you [00:45:00] producing videos instead of recovering? It's like we spent a week recovering going through our backlog. You think we still had Christmas decorations behind us? Like

Simone Collins: It's been tough.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway. I love you to death, Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too, Malcolm.

You're amazing.

Malcolm Collins: You're amazing. We'll get through this. Oh, I hope.

Speaker 36: We

watch the circus in full spin Where logic's tossed into the bin Deporting felons, that's a crime Though victims waited all this time Why are dem zogs so consistently evil? You can't both care for the grain and the weevil Systemic racism and trauma We'll be the legacy of Obama. [00:46:00] They holler justice up on high, yet shield with those who make them cry.

Speaker 37: They lecture loud with more all might than pity crooks who love to fight. They say communities, they prize while turning blind and shutting eyes. If you point out the harm they do. It's you they'll call the bigot, too. Why are them so, so consistently evil? You can't both care for the great and the weevil.

Systemic racism and trauma, City of Obama. When they leave

the border agape, It's those in shelters that bear the [00:47:00] rape. They claim compassion's now at stake, Push on the phone. So let them rant, let banners fly, we'll sigh and ask the reason why. Fritzing wolves while flaying sheep, the far left tomb they love to keep. Why are them snokes so consistently evil? You can't both care for the grain and the weevil.

Systemic racism. Will be the legacy of Obama. Why are them so, so consistently evil? You can't both care for evil

ent.

They holler justice up on [00:48:00] high, yet shielded those who make them cry. They lecture loud with morality.