Be It Till You See It

In this reflective episode, Lesley and Brad unpack the wisdom behind Tess Waresmith's approach to financial literacy, focusing on the dual objectives of debt management and investing for your future. Drawing from Tess's experiences and their own insights, the hosts explore how to navigate the financial landscape with confidence. By highlighting the importance of understanding your financial standing and the potential of investments, this discussion offers a clear guide to anyone wanting financial security. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why it’s never too late to start your investment journey at any age. 
• When you should prioritize debt repayment over investing.
• Why it’s important to learn the basic fundamentals of investing. 
• How journaling about money can transform your financial goals.

Episode References/Links:

• May Accelerator
• Cambodia Feb 2025 Early Bird
• OPC Summer Camp
• Best Pilates Reformer for Home
• Discount Links for Balanced Body’s Equipment and Contrology
• Wealth with Tess
• Free Workshop - 3 Keys to Making Money in the Stock Market

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Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

If your loans are under 7% just give yourself permission to just let them be and focus on having some fun investing and watching your money grow versus like watching like this student loan payment every month because that's just exhausting. 

Lesley Logan 0:14  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:56  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the enriching convo I have with Tess Waresmith in our last episode. 

Brad Crowell 1:04  

(Inaudible) enriching. 

Lesley Logan 1:05  

Very much so. I thought it was an appropriate word. So great job team. If you haven't yet listened to that one, you're gonna want to, my dears, you really, really are. But you can listen to this one first and then go back and then listen to that one. Brad was saying before we hit record, or maybe you'll hear it already. We are at episode 353. 

Brad Crowell 1:24  

That's amazing.

Lesley Logan 1:25  

That's insane. 

Lesley Logan 1:26  

That is a, I mean, I never imagined. 

Lesley Logan 1:29  

I know it's a lot. Wow. So way to go, team, 353. There are no balloons for this episode, but you know we are celebrating in our hearts. Today is April 11th 2024 and that is Dog Therapy Appreciation Day. So about this day, Dog Therapy Appreciation Day is celebrated on April 11th every year to appreciate the dogs who come for us by being therapy dogs. Therapy dogs go through a rigorous testing program before they become certified with their certification to become eligible to visit hospitals and nursing homes to give comfort to people. Therapy Dogs are usually at first pets who receive training and then become therapy dogs. Being around dogs makes everyone happy. And on this day we thank dogs are making us happier. It's true. They say if you want unconditional love get a dog. Because otherwise if you get a cat you just gotta remain. You never know what the cat you know. Some people's cats are loving, some people's cats are a little diva. Just saying. Just saying.

Brad Crowell 2:26  

My friend's cat knocks his stuff off of his table. It just sits there. Yeah, sits there and just p-p-p-p-poop funk knocks it off the table.

Lesley Logan 2:36  

Ah that's so funny. 

Brad Crowell 2:39  

Yeah, pretty hilarious. 

Lesley Logan 2:41  

So we've upcoming events so we want to share with you. So first of all, we're flying to your Sarasota today there's going to be a fun little private event to celebrate just mapping out you know, the podcast and her her app you can meet us at Pilates on tour at Phoenix, which is from Balanced Body on April 26th to the 28th so you can come see us in person we're gonna have a booth, we're gonna have flashcards. It's a huge event. It's a big, big party because Pilates anytime (inaudible)

Brad Crowell 3:03  

No dogs. I wish we could bring the dogs. 

Lesley Logan 3:05  

We're not bringing the dogs. 

Brad Crowell 3:07  

It's going to be so hot so we're not gonna bring them.

Lesley Logan 3:09  

(Inaudible) It's just that we're doing a booth and we cannot have three dogs at our tiny booth. Yeah. So. So you'll definitely want to check that out. I hope if you're coming already, let us know. And make sure you come up and say hi to us. Let us know what your favorite episode is. We love hearing that. We were just in Texas and people are sharing like quoting the episodes and they're quoting episodes like one and episode five and I was like wow, like yeah, we go back and listen, I was like, you're fucking awesome. Thank you so much. So ladies, hi. So fun to see you in person, you know who you are. In May we'll have the Accelerator for Profitable Pilates. This is the two-hour workshop that Brad leads where you actually get to learn how to accelerate your business, your studio and really, truly get to work on it in the workshop, which is really cool. He's going to teach you his 'accel' formula, which is about acquiring and cultivating and basically making clients for life and it's super, super fun. So you'll want to do that. 

Brad Crowell 4:03  

Not just making class for life, like bringing them in making them class for life, but then setting them up so they invite their friends and family to come to your studio.

Lesley Logan 4:12  

Yeah, so you can go to PRfit.biz/accelerator

Brad Crowell 4:16  

That's PRfit.biz/accelerator. 

Lesley Logan 4:19  

It's also like $47. So it's really it's a no-brainer to say yes. 

Brad Crowell 4:23  

If you're looking to jumpstart your business, come take this. 

Lesley Logan 4:26  

Or you're still stuck. Go take it, right? And also in May. 

Brad Crowell 4:31  

Yeah, this is really exciting news.

Lesley Logan 4:33  

First time sharing this on the pod. 

Brad Crowell 4:34  

We're back. 

Lesley Logan 4:35  

We're back. Okay, so the Cambodia retreat is sold out. 

Brad Crowell 4:39  

Yeah. October 24 it sold out, y'all. I'm so excited. It's gonna be the most incredible trip. And because of it, we thought, well, we better get the next one ready.

Lesley Logan 4:51  

Yeah. So because actually people who are still wanting to come I actually was talking to some people were like, oh, February is even better for me. So that's great. So February 2025 early bird is going to open up in May. Again, waitlist.

Brad Crowell 5:02  

Yeah, it's going to be Feb 23 to 28, 2025. But we're gonna do the the earlybird in May of this year. 

Lesley Logan 5:09  

Yeah, so waitlist. You've got to be on the waitlist. 

Brad Crowell 5:11  

Get on the waitlist.

Lesley Logan 5:11  

If you're not on the waitlist, you don't find about this early bird. 

Brad Crowell 5:13  

That's right. Get on that waitlist.

Lesley Logan 5:14  

You've got to be on the waitlist. And it's a limited time early bird by the way, so. 

Brad Crowell 5:17  

Yeah, it's only going to be two weeks, y'all.

Lesley Logan 5:19  

So you want to go to lesleylogan.co/retreats. My name is spelled L-E-S-L-E-Y.

Brad Crowell 5:24  

And that's retreats, plural, plural. Yeah, lesleylogan.co/retreats.

Lesley Logan 5:30  

And then coming up in June, right around the corner is going to be our summer camp. And it's huge. You guys, we are looking at eight events each day, 16 events for summer camp. Oh my god, this is a huge dream. I'm so, so excited.

Brad Crowell 5:45  

If you can't be on 10 hours of Pilates classes. That's okay. Because the cool thing about summer camp is you'll be able to keep the, the replays. 

Lesley Logan 5:55  

Yeah, you get the replays for life, which is amazing. And so if you can't be there for the first weekend of June live, you can just buy them while they're on early bird. And by the way, Early Bird really gets the worm on this one because our OPC members get the best early bird. And then if you're on the waitlist, you get the next best early bird. And if you're not on the waitlist, you get the next best early bird which is not as good as any other early bird. So you want to go to opc.me/events, plural, events plural. So opc.me/events to get on the waitlist, if you're an OPC member, you don't need to get on the waitlist, just make sure you're watching your inbox and the community for when you're when your window opens up to sign up.

Brad Crowell 6:35  

Just a super sneak peek on that not only we're gonna have a bunch of amazing teachers coming in and guest teachers. But also, this is like a big event for us, y'all. This is a big deal. I anticipate there being a ton of people participating. We took a look at last year how we ran everything and we decided this year, we're going to shift it up, we're actually going to offer day passes. And that is going to be the best possible rate. And you don't want to miss the day passes. It's going to be awesome. So great, great stuff. We're really fired up. And can't wait. So yeah. opc.me/events. So this week, we did have an audience question from YouTube. Sophia asked, 'What kind of reformer length should I have for someone who is six foot tall? 

Lesley Logan 7:18  

Yeah. Yeah. So also, there's another Pilates question I didn't want to bring in the brand name, But she was like, I'm looking at this brand name, and it seems really pricey. And I looked it up and it was only $2,000. And I had to say that's actually really expensive for a good reformer. However, I still wouldn't get it. So I let Sophia know that. But what I will say for all of you, if you are six feet tall, you can still operate on an 80-inch reformer, it's when you get above 6'3, that you're going to want to be more than 86-inch reformer. And why these things matter is just because it's, it's

Brad Crowell 7:52  

It's physics. It's literally like geometry. It's physics.

Lesley Logan 7:55  

Well, it's also like, when you press your legs too straight, you hit the end of the reformer. And if you're too tall, your legs don't get too straight. And it's and I will say just for the record, actually never care if the knees get straightened footwork, I only care that the hips open up the front of the hips open up so you could still be on too short reformer, that wouldn't be fun. So I would say you can, Sophia, you probably still could do the Contrology 80-inch but you might enjoy it in 86-inch for anyone under six feet tall, the 80-inch is going to be so awesome. Like, I'm five nine and gets towards spine a little tricky. I have to start at a harder spot. But oh my God, I love the support of the straps. Because again, physics where the strap hits the reformer and into the springs is a shorter distance than on an 86-inch so that's why I love it.

Brad Crowell 8:40  

And also I know you still work with pro football players on an 80-inch.

Lesley Logan 8:45  

I did, I did. They were 6'3" or shorter. So they were totally fine. 

Brad Crowell 8:49  

If you're working with basketball, people who are 6'10" and seven-foot. 

Lesley Logan 8:52  

I think they're like seven foot now. But also like if you are working with a team of basketball players, then by all means, like go get there's bigger formers for that. But if you are working with one NBA player, and you have an 86-inch, you're gonna be fine. You'll just you can do other exercises that they can't do on the reformer somewhere else.

Brad Crowell 9:10  

You said 86-inch, you meant 80? 

Lesley Logan 9:12  

No, they could do an 86-inch. 

Brad Crowell 9:14  

But if they have only one basketball player? 

Lesley Logan 9:17  

Yeah, I think well, the 80-inch is going to be a little tricky. 

Brad Crowell 9:20  

Yeah, are you saying there's bigger than 86? 

Lesley Logan 9:22  

Yeah, there's an 89. 

Brad Crowell 9:23  

Oh, I didn't know that. 

Lesley Logan 9:24  

There are some people that like 90-somethings don't do that you guys, there's no need. Again.

Brad Crowell 9:28  

Also the leverage, like the amount of you know muscle that's needed to be able to pull that strap. Yeah, is like gonna be really, really challenging, especially as your clients get older. 

Lesley Logan 9:38  

I know shout out to Joanna, an eLevator, she's like I would have paid attention to our physics class if it was taught to me as like it's Pilates. Yeah. And it's true like, like every workshop I'm doing okay, so guys physics, right? So like, this if you do x and you try to do y the window chair is gonna fall over, but I truly like for mostly listening to this, I'm just gonna say 80-inches that's really, really awesome. It's just so, so great. And if you have to get an 86, that's fine as well. But you can check out on YouTube I have a whole video on the reformer for like which one to get for home. It's not one that slides underneath the bed. It's an 80-inch performer spoiler alert. But I go over all the different things you want to look at when it comes to choosing a reformer and why you want to make sure that you're not getting one with bungee cords or, or like one that goes underneath the bed because all these different changes affect how you can do the practice and what you can do. A reformer that's too low to the floor you can't do pulling straps, it's a basic, amazing exercise everybody needs to do. So you can watch that video. 

Brad Crowell 10:37  

It's called Best Pilates Reformer for Home: How to Choose the Best Reformer for you. That's the video name. And that's just right on our YouTube channel.

Lesley Logan 10:44  

Yeah, yeah. So you can watch that, check it out. And then if you have questions about it let me know also, if you want a discount, we got it.

Brad Crowell 10:49  

Or you want me to clarify the YouTube channel, because we have one for the pod, it's on the Online Pilates Classes YouTube channel. 

Lesley Logan 10:55  

Yeah. Do you know what that that URL is? I'll tell you guys, I got it memorized. It's really weird. youtube.com/@onlinepilatesclasses, because they go we're gonna give you a handle, it's like a social media thing. But you can't actually use the handle. You have to do youtube.com/@onlinepilatesclasses. 

Brad Crowell 11:12  

It's because you can at mention people now in comments. They're really trying to get the community element going. 

Lesley Logan 11:16  

Yeah, no one's recovering a million people's edits. Fine. Whatever. Anyway, Sophia, thank you for that question. And also you guys, we have discount links when it comes to purchasing Balanced Body's equipment, whether it's a Balanced Body line or the Contrology line. 

Brad Crowell 11:29  

Yeah and sidenote, did you know, we have a YouTube channel for the pod? 

Lesley Logan 11:34  

We do.

Brad Crowell 11:35  

If you like to watch these to watch this show, you can. We are actually on video. We're staring at each other in a video camera.

Lesley Logan 11:43  

Yeah, and all of our guests are on video. 

Brad Crowell 11:45  

It's pretty cool. 

Lesley Logan 11:46  

So cool. I hope you check it out.

Brad Crowell 11:48  

Yes, just go to the Be It Pod on YouTube. All right, now let's talk about Tess Waresmith. Tess is a financial advisor who turned an 80k loss into a million-dollar net worth by the age of 35, which is incredible. Her mission is to educate women on investing via Wealth with Tess, ensuring financial empowerment, literacy and independence. And I just want to throw in here, great remake on the bio, but she didn't go to college to study finance. In fact, she's an acrobat. And she literally was working on a cruise ship. And you know, that's how she, because she had no expenses literally, they pay for housing and food, so for the time she was on the ship, every penny she made, she was able to put in a bank account. And when she got back, she started investing and didn't really pay attention to it, and it went wrong. And she lost a lot of money. And that really made her angry. And so she started to educate herself. And today she educates others, which is super cool. 

Lesley Logan 12:48  

She's so cool. We had her in the agency family, she did a webinar and we actually were able to put her webinar in our agency on-demand curriculum means anyone who comes into on demand or as a pro member for agency, gets to watch her incredible, incredible webinar, which I'm just so friggin grateful. Because then you could if you want to you can work with her. So here's the deal. I loved we talked about demystifying myths around investing because there's a lot of myths around investing. And one of the things we talked about was like that myth, it's too late to invest or catch up. I know for me, I'm always like, fuck, I should have started when I was 20. And I didn't start till I was 31. And like, you know, I look at it sometimes we just looked at with like these wealth advisors we're talking to and I'm like, how's it only that much? You know, how was it only that much?

Brad Crowell 13:34  

Yeah. It's also been in there for a long time and you were kind of cross-eyed, and like, really? 

Lesley Logan 13:39  

And I also actually, because of Tess, I like I really was like, look at this and tell me what's going on. And they said, oh, it's that they're not being aggressive with it like you want it. And I was like, I literally, Brad and I literally had a call with them a year ago and said, make it, be aggressive. And they still didn't. So thank goodness for Tess and opened my eyes because now we know and we can move it. But anyways, she said age does not matter investing, it's never too late. Even if you've done some mistakes that are irreversible. She's like, if you're starting to take action, you still have time to make a massive difference. And she said, the longer you wait, the harder it is going to be to reach your financial goals. So like, basically going it's too late to invest is not, you got it, you can just start now and like it doesn't have to be too late.

Brad Crowell 14:23  

I feel like we need to even take a step back like this idea of financial goals is this like it's an amorphous not like thing. It doesn't make any sense. It like do people actually, obviously, more is better. Mo better, right? That's the way I've always thought of financial goals. But the more we've been educating ourselves about this, the more I'm realizing there is an actual number out there that you will want to you know, kind of go for over your career of making money. That's your entire life so that when you retire, you have enough money to live the lifestyle you want to live and it's like talking with Tess was really interesting because it allowed not only the podcast interview. 

Lesley Logan 15:04  

She needs a podcast called Talking with Tess. 

Brad Crowell 15:06  

Talking with Tess. 

Lesley Logan 15:07  

I know she's Wealth With Tess, but like Talking with Tess 

Brad Crowell 15:09  

It's pretty good. It's a good alliteration. But the like understanding the foundational elements of like a financial plan, and what does that even mean? What is this amorphous, like goal that you may or may not have yet? Like, and how do you start to go forward toward it? These are all the things that she begins to teach. And, you know, she's teaching I mean, and she, what was cool is, you know, there's a couple of different ways to do it. There's like the, you know, hire someone let them do it, right, for you and you're paying them the 1% thing, there are things you just like, buy it, never look at it ever again. And there's people who try to like actually play the stock market, right? Those are kind of the three different ways that you know, and she, she kind of, she has different programs that educate you through those things. And I thought it was really great, because maybe, depending on who you are, where you are, what your financial position is, and your goals are, you know, it depends on which avenue you may want to go. And then there are different things inside of that. I was poking around her website, if y'all can't tell. It's good. So yeah, I really loved that she said, a lot of people feel like they have to pay off all of their debt, even their mortgage or their student loans before they start investing. So this is myth number two. Myth number one was what Lesley said, it's, oh, it's too late for me, I didn't start when I was 20. So why even bother? No, wrong. Second one is you don't have to pay off all your debt before you begin investing. There is like a, like a generalization that if you're, if you have a loan, and it's less than 7%, you know, the on average, the money that you may invest in things is going to be like, not not in like, like, obviously, when I'm talking to savings account here, but it's going to be greater than 7% on average, over I think this is like over a 10-year period or something like that. Anyway, the point is this, if you have a credit card, it has 27% interest rate, and then you take all your money and you put it in the stock market, you're not going to be doing yourself any favors, you should be paying off the 27% interest rate right now, get that down. But if you have a mortgage or a school loan, and it's like 4%, right, then 

Lesley Logan 17:21  

Let it be, just pay what you're supposed to pay. 

Brad Crowell 17:23  

Yeah, pay what you're supposed to pay, feel free to add a little bit on top, that's fine. But like, you don't need to be dumping money onto that 4% loan, you'd be better off serving yourself by taking that money and investing it in a way that will bring you seven or 8% greater, you know, or whatever. And so, so the point is, if you have high-interest debt, then you do need, you want to get rid of that right away. That's the first primary and that could, right away could take a year or two. 

Lesley Logan 17:49  

It could take up and also by the way, because I used to have a lot of credit cards and student loan debt and lived in California in LA with lots of things. I literally just took, I did the minimums on everything and paid off the highest interest rate bill I had, then I took that money and went to the next highest interest rate bill. And then I, it's like all the other ones I was just paying like like barely a little over minimum, because it's like, they're all more, they're all lower than this. And I have to get this one down. And I was able to take that money unto this one and that one, and I got out of my credit card debt faster than I actually thought because I was being very intentional about it it's kind of interesting how like, when you focus on it like, what you're able to do, and I paid my student loans off months earlier than I thought not even because I paid extra, I just actually had it set up, where I always paid the same amount no matter what the interest was, because I had this like interest rate, and it went down while I had them. But I kept paying the same amount. And so I had a higher payment going to the principal. So it goes it does go away. We just have to also not look at it like oh my god, I'm financially illiterate. I'm a stupid person for these things. No, like, you know what, guys? I wouldn't I want to live in a world where it doesn't cost $80,000 to go to a regular college, I would love to see that I would love to see a world where you don't have to go to college to be a fucking secretary. Like you don't need to. But we don't live in that world right now. So you just have to go I made these amazing choices. I probably met some incredible people. And I'm gonna make this payment, put it on auto pay and do some things. But also if the interest is under seven, which most student loans is and if the IRS is not, let's figure that out. But 

Brad Crowell 19:26  

Yeah, just to clarify that statement. I want to put the descriptor word in that sentence a lot differently. You don't have to go to fucking college to be a secretary. 

Lesley Logan 19:36  

No, you don't. You don't. 

Brad Crowell 19:39  

The point is like you can make a living being a secretary you can make a living. You don't need to go to college to make a living. You can but you don't necessarily need to. 

Lesley Logan 19:49  

Yeah, I say that because like, I definitely I now use my degree but like I use college as a way to get out of like my hometown and I'm grateful because I wouldn't be on this journey. And I wouldn't know the people I have if I hadn't done it. But also, also, I couldn't have done what I did in retail, which taught me what I needed to do to do business with Pilates. Anyways, so would I've been in business coach, maybe not, but that doesn't, that doesn't really matter. So I think it's just really important. Just to go back to, if you're, if your loans are under 7%. Just give yourself permission to just let them be. And focus on having some fun investing and watching your money grow versus like watching like this student loan payment every month, because that's just exhausting. 

Brad Crowell 20:34  

So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. Say it with me, y'all. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Tess Waresmith?

Lesley Logan 20:45  

I wonder if anyone does it? Anyone says it with you.

Brad Crowell 20:47  

If any of you say that with me every single week, I want to know, I want to know you needed the (inaudible)

Lesley Logan 20:53  

I know Mindy says the intro like she would if for SEO. She's got it memorized. (inaudible)

Brad Crowell 21:02  

That is amazing. Okay, cool. So as I was already alluding to, at the beginning of this pod, Tess actually educates people on the subjects and she's got some really approachable courses. It's like a one-month course where she works in small groups with people who are probably, you know, all in the same boat, she said, it's often very revealing, you know, learning the foundational understanding of investing of money about how it all works. And she said, it's very, very possible for you to learn this yourself. It's, it sounds intimidating, but that's only because we don't know what we don't know. Right? But when you begin to see when she you know, you lift the lid on it. She said it's not rocket science here. A lot of the investing that you know, that is happening, we probably could be managing it ourselves, instead of having an organization manage it for us, because they're taking fees that literally we don't need to do, we don't need them to take. Because if you're just setting it and forgetting it, there's really an opportunity for you to manage it yourself. So she said find out where you stand in the ecosystem of learning investment, like, are you trying to be complicated, then maybe you need a team to work with you. But if it's just a set it and forget it, you can make a smart decision. So as long as you know the options, and then you can choose how much money can you invest and watch how it grows. You can learn together, you know, with your partner with your family to be able to make intelligent financial decisions. Well, she said something I really light her fire is investing and teaching kids, right? So she said there's a there's a plan called a 529 plan, which that doesn't mean anything to me other than it's a number, where you can, as a parent, begin to put money into an account for your kids college fund. And if they choose not to go to college, down the road, it can roll into some other kind of a retirement plan.

Lesley Logan 22:58  

I know is that, that to me was so cool, that if they don't go to college, it can go into a retirement plan. So it doesn't have to be forced. I love it. I love their option.

Brad Crowell 23:07  

That's pretty rad. It's pretty, pretty rad. But how would you ever even know about this stuff? Right? So you gotta you gotta learn. So what about you?

Lesley Logan 23:16  

She said, so my biggest takeaway that I want to talk about is journaling on your relationship with money. And I, we and I, we both have done some stuff on this show. So we, of course, I love this because we've been, it was really revealing for us when we did it. So she said ask for, this is for my people who are like, what do I journal? Write this down. Okay she said ask yourself questions like, how do I feel when I make a money transaction? So, when you receive money or when you spend money how does it make you feel? Do I feel like there's an opportunity for me to make more money or not? Do I think I'm capable of learning how to invest? And she said if the answer is no, you need to DM her because she'll talk to you. She'll talk to you, and she's going to absolutely help you because she believes you are more than capable to do it.

Brad Crowell 24:01  

Yep. She said there was another thing before we wrap it up. She mentioned she often hears that people say they are or they are not, quote-unquote good with money. Oh, I'm not good with money anyway, so whatever, you know, like I just am doing my thing. And she said that this is like the honestly, from a, be it perspective, Be It Pod perspective, this is like the definition of negative self-talk, even though we don't even realize it, we are counting ourselves out from ever even learning the possibility or understanding that we could be good with money. Right? And we just assume that we don't have the quote-unquote golden touch, you know, that like maybe a (inaudible) investment banker has or whatever stock market person has, like they're good with money. You know, I'm not good with money. No, that's a story we're telling ourselves. Right? And that doesn't have to be the case. And it's also not that complex to learn how you can be good with money. And that's why we love to have this conversation with Tess.

Lesley Logan 25:04  

Yeah, she's great. I like want to spend more time with her. So thank you, Tess for helping us become really amazing and hyped up about money and investing. I really, I cannot wait for everyone to tell me how they're gonna use these tips in your life. And by the way, share this with a friend who like says they're not good with money or says that they wish that they understood the money matters in their household more like this is a really, Tess can really help so many women in your life. So. 

Brad Crowell 25:31  

Yeah, we'll put her link in the show notes. 

Lesley Logan 25:32  

Yeah, so do that right now. And until next time, I'm Lesley Logan. 

Brad Crowell 25:36  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 25:37  

Thank you so very, very much for being here. 353 episodes if you haven't listened to that, man, you should go listen, I'm just saying, some people listen twice, just no pressure. Let us know what your favorite one is so far, and Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 25:51  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 25:53  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 26:21  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 26:36  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 26:41  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 26:45  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 26:52  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 26:56  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Dive into an enriching conversation with Tess Waresmith as she tackles common financial myths and opens the door to investment strategies that are accessible to all. Learn how understanding and overcoming these misconceptions can lead you to a path of financial freedom.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why mastering money management is a skill you can develop regardless of your financial background.
• How Tess's financial missteps became her greatest lessons in achieving financial expertise.
• Why financial literacy and investing are crucial tools for women's financial empowerment.
• How to use 529 plans and Roth IRAs for smarter investing and future financial security.
• Understand why knowing your investment fees can significantly impact your financial growth.

Episode References/Links:

• Wealth with Tess Instagram
• Wealth with Tess TikTok
• Wealth with Tess website
• Savvy Investor Starter Pack
• Free Workshop - 3 Keys to Making Money in the Stock Market
• 529 Plans (SEC: Updated Investor Bulletin: An Introduction to 529 Plans)
• The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel

Guest Bio:

Tess is a financial coach and the founder of Wealth with Tess, a financial education community that helps women in their 30’s and 40’s learn how to grow their money using simple investing strategies so that they can retire comfortably, chase their dreams, and live life on their terms. After losing 80k in bad investments in her twenties, Tess learned everything she could about wealth building and built her net worth to 1 million as a single 35 year old woman. Now she’s helped thousands of women learn how to grow their money using simple investing strategies anyone can do (even if you’re short-on-time or a total newbie investor). Thousands of women have attended her free investing workshops, hundreds of women have joined her small group coaching programs, and she regularly shares simple money tips for free on instagram.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript:

Tess Waresmith 0:00  

Investing is one of those things that feels really complicated and out of the realm of possibility for us sometimes. But that is just because of the financial jargon. It's because of limiting beliefs. It's because of messaging. Once you actually get a basic education, you realize it's not that complicated, but I definitely did not start out that way and in my 20s actually made a whole lot of big, big investing mistakes. And that's actually why I learned what I learned now. 

Lesley Logan 0:27  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It babe, we are going to talk about money today. And it's so, so important I do not want you to go I'm gonna skip this one money scares me. No, no, no, this is like you'll be so amazed, so fired up. I'm so excited about what I learned on this episode like so, so excited. I'm immediately, after this, signing up for just at least what Tess just guide us, because y'all one of the reasons I love having her on, and one of the reasons I wanted to have her on is that she is really passionate about normalizing money conversations, especially for women, and investing. And I believe in being it till you see it and I believe in every single one of you having exactly what you want in this minute. And I also believe that there's a security that is needed. And a lot of times we think we're not good with money because we told ourselves a story, or we've been told a story or family told us a story and you're just gonna love Tess, you're gonna love her advice. She's brilliant. She's amazing. And she's going to help you understand how simple it can be to invest. So here is Tess Waresmith. 

All right, Be It babe, this is gonna be a thrilling conversation. I'm really, really excited to talk about all the things that Tess Waresmith is an expert at. So Tess, thank you for being a guest to us today and can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? 

Tess Waresmith 2:22  

Sure. So my name is Tess. I am a financial educator and I rock at helping women make the most of their hard-earned money by teaching them super, super simple investing strategies and ways to grow their money, even if you're totally new to investing, totally intimidated, have little time, like so many people, and just want to learn how to make sure your money is working for you. So that's what I do. I do that through coaching, teaching, workshops, and I'll always trying to normalize money conversations as much as possible. 

I love that so much. On many episodes, I've been like, we have to talk about how much money we make ladies, otherwise you don't know how much money you can make at things like if we don't, we've got to normalize that conversation. So I think it's really, really important. Before we get into all that, though, I do. Because I do think that something like oh my God, investing that scares me, this is going to be above my like, level of understanding. Don't turn this off. I really want you to hear it. Can you, have you always just been amazing at money or is it just something that came natural? Were your parents like super good about telling you how to balance a checkbook? Like how did you get to be an expert?

The short answer is no to all of the above. I did not learn how to manage money as a kid, I was not taught by my parents. In fact, my father was horrible with money and spent a lot of it and now is months behind on mortgage payments. So no, I did not grow up with a deep understanding of money. And I think it's important to realize that most people don't. I feel like we have this misconception around money where you're either good at it or you're not. And I hear so many people say I'm not good at money like it's a skill that you're born with. But just like anything else, it's a skill that you develop that you have to learn. And thankfully, and I'm glad you said not to turn it off when it comes to investing because investing is one of those things that feels really complicated and out of the realm of possibility for us sometimes. But that is just because of the financial jargon. It's because of limiting beliefs. It's because of messaging, once you actually get a basic education, you realize it's not that complicated, but I definitely did not start out that way. And in my 20s actually made a whole lot of big, big investing mistakes. And that's actually why I've learned what I learned now I was sort of forced to because I realized how much money I was losing by doing the wrong things that I went in a deep dive, did all this research and then I realized this crazy truth that it's actually not that hard. And so now I feel honestly morally obligated to do this work because it is so accessible to everyone, especially these days. There's so much great education. There's so many easy ways to invest. You don't have to be good at math. You don't have to be rich already. You don't have to have a ton of money to get started. You don't even need to be totally out of debt. 

Lesley Logan 5:01  

Yes, I love that you said that. 

Tess Waresmith 5:05  

So I'm really trying to demystify a lot of the myths around investing because there's so many and at the end of the day, we need this skill to make sure that we can unlock our full potential, chase our dreams, retire comfortably, have safety and security like that is really critical to your well being. So investing is not an optional thing. I think every woman needs to learn it. And we need to have more people providing digestible, relatable, no judgement, education. And that's what I'm trying to do.

Lesley Logan 5:34  

I really love that because I also love you said, you don't have to be out of debt. I think that's really important. A lot of women I talked to like, I'm almost out of debt. I don't want to, like they're not investing in their business yet because they want to be out of debt first. And I'm like, for just so I what I have learned is that they really care if you are in debt, like no one's giving you money if you can't show that you manage debt, so like, there's this like, really weird thing that we're supposed to be out of debt, when really the way your credit score works is based on how you manage debt, which is this really backed up weird thing in the US, if you're my European listeners, you're like what I just don't know what you're talking about. But can you, also I'm impressed that you were investing any money in your 20s. I was, like, desperately trying to pay rent, and my student loans up. So I feel like I, I feel like I was really late to the game and started like a 401k. I was like, at least I'm doing this I'm like at least I'm doing this. And then I talked to someone who's like you can do an IRA. And I'm like, okay, I don't know what that means. But here you go. So I feel like I am one of those people who's gonna learn a lot today because I don't even know that I'm investing as well as I could be and I definitely wish I was. So what are some of your common myths, you hear that we should just be like busting right now off the top of the show?

Tess Waresmith 6:44  

Well, the one common myth that you mentioned is that it's too late or you feel like you're late. And I think regardless of what age we start at, and this is like the most common belief, I feel, when it comes to investing that I talk to every woman about regardless of whether they're 25 or 50 is that they're behind and that they're too late to catch up and they've already like made some mistakes that are too hard to come back from, and that is a huge myth. Because one, if you're having these conversations and you're focusing on your money in your 20s, 30s or 40s, even if you haven't done anything yet, if you're starting to take action, you still have time to make a massive difference in what the rest of your life looks. So I think that's a huge mistake is that people feel like they're so far behind that they become paralyzed. And they're like, well, it doesn't really matter now, because I'm already so far behind, when in reality, you're not as far behind as you think I guarantee that if you're sitting there listening to this thinking, like I'm really behind, I bet you're not as far as you think, first of all, and second of all, every year, month that you wait to take control of your money, you are jeopardizing your financial future. So in the same breath, you're not too late. But the longer you wait, the harder it's going to be to reach your financial goals. And I have never worked with a woman that said, oh, man, I really like wish I waited to start investing until I understood every piece of this, like no one's ever said that. So that's the first one. The second one, I say, I'll come back to the debt one, because I think that's pretty important. A lot of people feel like they have to pay off all their debt, even their mortgages or their student loans. And while yes, you do want to pay off high-interest debt, and I would say that's, you know, debt over seven-ish percent, like that's the kind of debt you want to pay off quickly, because you're just going to be hemorrhaging any wins you have in the stock market, if you're paying down if you're still paying interest on high interest debt. But if you have just student loans under 7%, if you have a mortgage under 7%, the average return in the stock market is roughly 10%. You subtract for inflation 8%. So, in many cases, when I work with people that are paying extra money towards their student loans or extra money to their mortgages, and they're paying down loans that have relatively low interest rates, if they stopped doing that and started investing that money instead, they would have the ability to build more wealth compared to the money they would save by paying down their mortgage or their loan faster. So it's important to understand the basic math of that. And so 7% is a good percentage to start evaluating and to really be thinking about how you're spending your money because at that point, if you're paying the minimums on your loans, you might actually be doing better and build faster wealth if you are investing. The other thing I'll comment on because I know you have a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this is there is something to be said also for investing in your business. If you are paying down debt and you don't have high-interest debt, again, if you have high-interest credit card debt that's something you got to get rid of because that's just going to become a deeper, deeper hole. So that's something that you got to focus on first before you start investing. But when it comes to your business, if you have lower-interest debt you absolutely should be finding ways to invest in your business provided that you're thinking through the ROI because that's eventually going to help you create more money to invest. And at the end of the day, your income does matter when it comes to investing because that's going to impact how much you can invest and how much your money compounds. So those are a couple of myths. And then I mean, there are so many, which is why this is such a, this is such a meaty topic and why I love talking about investing, because I love busting these myths but the last one I will say is that good investing strategies are complex. And that is a huge, huge myth, because actually, the best investors are people that create really, really simple investment portfolios. And I teach people how to do this all the time, in a matter of like hours, it doesn't take years, it doesn't take an economics Ph.D. or a series six or finance degrees, you just need a little bit of time and an open mind. And you can learn how to create very, very simple investment portfolios that you buy and hold. You don't have to learn how to pick stocks, you don't have to learn how to time the market. And in fact, people that do those things end up getting much, much lower returns. So investing is one of the few things in life, like actually, the less you work at it, if you set up something simple, the better your returns can be. So those are just some investing myths, but we could go on forever. 

Lesley Logan 11:13  

Oh my gosh, okay, you said a lot of words that I think, I know portfolio, like the series, all those things. I'm like, I feel like my tax accountant is wanting to know if I have anything like that. I felt like I want to know all these things. But I do love that you're like you can learn it in a few hours. And also, I read The Psychology of Money a couple of years ago, 

Tess Waresmith 11:32  

Great book. 

Lesley Logan 11:33  

It's such a good book, it's really worth reading because it explains the type of emotions that some people need to get, to gain a ton of wealth are different than the type of emotions you need to keep wealth, which is a whole interesting phenomenon. But he was talking about the people who do those, like short sells and all that stuff and how it's actually quite stressful. And it's almost more of an addiction of like the dopamine rush than if they just let it sit there. It's fascinating. Okay, so let's go back a little bit, though, you mentioned like you learned all the hard ways. And I think a lot of my listeners, including, like I grew up hearing we're just not good with money and so I just kind of have that story. And one of the things that I love about the show is that like, I feel like you can change your story with just a mantra, you feel like, I know, people are crazy but I really do think that we can act as if, what was it like for you to go from making mistakes? What did you have to do that you have to tell yourself to kind of become the person who is like sitting here, you're so knowledgeable, I can't even imagine you didn't know how to invest money at a time. So like how did you bridge that gap? 

Tess Waresmith 12:38  

Yeah, so I'll tell you a little bit about the story of what happened and how and why that was a catalyst for me bridging the gap. So I have to say that I have to owe some of this to the universe, setting me off in the right direction and kicking me down so far that I was so pissed that I had to learn. But basically what happened was, in my mid-20s, I was very privileged to get a full athletic scholarship to college. So I will say that, you know, a lot of my financial success, I got to start from a place most people don't, most people have some kind of debt. So I was able to get my first job, which was actually as an aerial acrobat on a cruise ship. And I promise this is relevant to money in a moment. And so that job was really interesting, because I worked on a cruise ship, and everything was paid for. So my food was paid for, accommodations, I didn't ever, I didn't have any of these things. So I was able to save a lot of money and I grew up with a huge fear of money because I grew up being told like we don't have enough money for that, you have to be careful about that, over and over and over. So money was always a scarce, fearful thing for me. So that's why to answer your question about investing in your 20s, I knew enough to know that I should be doing that because I was afraid enough of not having enough money that I knew that that was a thing I needed to do. But I didn't know how to do it. And so once I saved some money working on the cruise ship, I ended up trying to read some books about investing. They were really overcomplicated. And so very quickly, I was like, you know what, of course I'm not smart enough to do this myself I'm gonna hire a financial advisor to do it for me. And this was somebody I trusted somebody I grew up with that was a few years older than me. And the long story short is that I gave that person my money. And over a few years time I started realizing that my returns weren't that good. I started looking at what I was invested in and saw that some stuff looked very similar. And what I ended up discovering is that they'd sold me financial products that were better suited for people in their 50s, that there were duplicate investments in my accounts that were basically stacking fees and that the fees that I was paying her were astronomical that were costing me thousands of dollars a year and I didn't even realize it because it's built in to the way that you invest with some financial advisors. What they do is they charge what's called AUM, assets under management, which basically means they take a percentage of the money you're investing with them, regardless of what happens in the stock market. And so at that point, I had started investing all my money from the cruise ship. And years later realized that I was hemorrhaging money in fees. But it's not easy to see that because it doesn't come up in the statement, it doesn't really, it's not easy to see if you're working with a financial advisor, you're listening to this, you're like, am I paying fees like don't feel bad, no shame, because this information is so hard to find. And the industry is built in such a way where it doesn't make it easy to understand, which is good for them. Because they want you to feel like it's complicated so you don't learn how to do it yourself and you pay someone else to do it. That's part of the whole game. So and I will say, by the way, not all financial advisors are crooks, there's some great ones out there. But either way, you still need to learn the basics, because otherwise, what happened to me could happen to you. So after all of that happened and I went in a shame spiral, and I was super, super upset. I went back to my core values. And something I did years ago, was create a list of core values of values that I wanted to live by. And one of them was everything is figureoutable. And I realized and Marie Forleo says, I can't steal, I can't I have to give her full credit for that one. But I love that one. Because it's really true, right? Especially with the internet, resources, good people that want to help you, there's always a way to figure out something. So I was sitting there going like there has to be a way for me to invest without spending thousands of dollars to pay somebody else to get me average returns. And so I did all this research, and I talked to millionaires. That's a key one, I talked to people that were already doing it. And I asked him like, how do you invest? And a lot of them are like, Oh, it's really simple. I just invest in like these funds that hold a bunch of stocks and I leave it alone. And I'm like, that, that's it? That's, that's the whole thing? And I kept hearing the same message. And then I read books, and I took courses. And I looked at data. And then what I realized, after all this research, and I kept trying to prove myself wrong, I'm like, there's no way it can be this straightforward. And it is. Because at the end of the day, the stock market is too complex to try to time there's no crystal ball of what's going to happen. So the best strategies are really to oversimplify this, to buy a bunch of it, put your eggs in a bunch of different baskets and buy and hold. And there's easy ways to do that. There's easy investments you can buy that hold hundreds or thousands of stocks at once, you don't have to stock pick and you hold them over time. And that's pretty much it. Like obviously, there's a little more detail to get started. But that's the strategy. It's buying and holding funds over a long period of time. So that's really it. 

Lesley Logan 17:28  

That's what I learned in that book that we were talking about earlier. He's like, if you can just like, let it live there, what it has proven is if you let it live there for 10, 15, 20 years, everything eventually, like even if it goes up and down, up and down, it always sort of ends up.

Tess Waresmith 17:42  

Exactly. No, it's that, you nailed it, right? Like it's not more complicated than that. So that's really what happened. So I think being so committed to the idea that there has to be a way to figure it out, led me to the right information. And now I'm just so jazzed to share it with people. And the hardest part is not teaching people how to invest, it's getting them to believe that they can do it and it's not going to be that hard, and it's not going to be as complicated as they think. But that's the biggest hurdle for me as an educator.

Lesley Logan 18:09  

You know, you're 100%, right? Because I'm sitting here and you're like saying how simple it is, I'm like, oh my gosh, like maybe I should be moving that $500 investment into this account. And I should be doing it over here. And then next notice, do I even know how to do that? Do I have the time? I'm not sure. Maybe it's not safe to move it? Maybe I should just leave it because just that like, I've already talked myself in and out of it. So I do, I do agree like it's getting us to believe it's possible, and that we should be part of it. And I find like, you know, when I was in a mastermind and we brought someone in who was talking about wealth, and it was a husband and wife and they're talking about how they built wealth, how they invest in their wealth, how simple it is, like she, the wife even creates a group or they bring people in and talk about what you can invest in. And then you're like, one of these special people who can be one of the first people to invest and I was like, oh, I want to be in that group. And one of the girls sitting next to me, she's like, oh, I don't deal with any of this. I just let my husband do it. And I was like, what if your husband dies? What if he loses his job? What if like, he leaves you for someone younger? Like I just, like my head went like, you know what I mean? So I said, I'm feeling very hypocritical because I'm not actually doing a lot of investment myself. But like, I, if you're listening to this, and you're like, oh, my partner takes care of it, there's just this like fear inside my body for you. You do need to be part of that conversation. You do need to know and I find like, I coach a lot of women, and we have several of them that their husbands have said hey, I'm gonna end this marriage and they're having to start from scratch and everything and I'm like, and they, there just isn't enough awareness around that financial stuff that I'm like, ah, that's, that is like, I don't ever want to end up in that space either. 

Tess Waresmith 19:56  

Lesley, I don't even know if we're on each other's email list, but I literally wrote an email today that said, when she told me my husband when my husband discouraged her to start investing, and I wrote an email literally today went out this morning, about how many conversations I've had with women over the last few weeks that are around this theme of saying, like, either their partners, like I don't need to learn that we have an advisor, or oh, you don't need to learn that I know how to do it. And by the way, like no shade, but a lot of times, men have pressure to know this stuff, but they might not actually know as much as you think. So no one should ever discourage you from learning this stuff for yourself because exactly what you said, Lesley, the majority of women I work with, and I'm super sad to say this are women that are going through some kind of separation or trauma or their husband is sick, and that's when, you know, shit hits the fan, and they're like, oh, crap, now I have to learn this, and my heart breaks for them because the last thing I want for any woman is to on top of the grief and depression, whatever, like other challenge in life, things they're going through, is then having to spend time figuring out how to manage their money and investments. So I'm so glad you brought this up because it is a real problem. I hear it a lot. And even from women that are motivated to learn, well, they'll be discouraged and, you know, the uncomfortable thing that I don't want to say is, to me, it feels like either an unconscious or some subconscious form of control. And I hate that. So you know, if you have any desire to learn, one, you're totally capable of it. And it's not as hard as you think. And I'll say that, and I will, I will do everything I can to prove it to you that that is true. But also, that's a massive red flag. And if anything, if you are partnered and your partner knows more than you, if you learn more together, you can make more intelligent financial decisions, you can reach your goals faster together, it'll be more fun. There's so many benefits of learning. And I end up working with a lot of couples. My coaching is I do focus on women because I want to create safe spaces for women to feel comfortable talking about money. But a lot of times husbands will join, I'll ask the group is it okay if we have somebody join and those couples love it because then they're on the same page, they're speaking the same language, it's a really powerful thing to do with your partner, to really get a handle on what your financial goals are, and learn together, it can change everything.

Lesley Logan 22:21  

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's really true, like one of my dear friends, she actually decided to leave in her partnership and it's because of the investments she made that she could afford to make those decisions, too. So she wasn't stuck in a relationship that wasn't serving her or him, you know, so I think like, the more educated you can be, and I love that you said like, if you're a couple, I'm not saying everyone's gonna end their marriage, guys, I fully believe them. We have mine forever and ever. Not always. But also, like, it's true, it can be more fun, and you can grow it together. And there can be even more that you give. And I find like so many people want to give their children everything that they didn't have. And there's a lot of extra parenting and (inaudible) that's going on there but if you can actually, like have more fun building wealth, and you can pass it off to your children, that's even, that's a big, that's huge.

Tess Waresmith 23:08  

It's massive.

Lesley Logan 23:09  

Oh my gosh, I like so look at my friend's wedding. Oh, my God, you do have? Can you like throw a girl a bone? You know, but like, so we, one of the things, one of my biggest goals was like buying this house, because there's a couple things that I wanted to invest in. I had some money that I could invest, but I had, they're like, you have to be a homeowner. And I was like, oh, another obstacle, I just want to invest in this thing. But now we're homeowners officially. So now I'm like, okay, I can belong to the big girls club over here.

Tess Waresmith 23:39  

Yeah, yeah. And I think the point about learning so that you can teach your kids or even your friends' kids, I you know, I don't have kids yet. But I just yesterday, there's a lot of good things it's been a good week of money wins. But yesterday, I helped a good friend of mine open a 529, which is an investing account that you can open for your kids that helps you save and invest money for college. And what's cool about it now is that the rules have changed. Even if you don't if your kid doesn't use that money for college, you can actually roll it over to a retirement account for them to get a jumpstart. So that's super cool tool. It's called a 529. I'm happy to share a link of where you can learn a little bit more about that. 

Lesley Logan 24:19  

That's cool. That's so fun. That's really awesome, I have nieces and nephews. I'm like, hold on. Well, I need to send them because like, I love that also, they don't have to go to school because like to get it like you could put it into a retirement account and stuff like what a, because also we've learned, like, do you need a college degree anymore and we don't know.

Tess Waresmith 24:38  

And so what was cool is that I told her she was like, oh, I don't want to do that because I don't know if my daughter is gonna go to college. I said no worries. If you don't, you can up rollover up to $35,000 of this money into a Roth IRA, which is an IRA stands for Individual Retirement Account. And it's that's a great investment plan for retirement. And so we opened it, and she told her daughter about it. And within a half an hour her daughter came running back to her and was like, I have $13, can I add this to my money in that account? And that almost made me cry, because like that small, like behavior change of understanding, like, oh, instead of like spending this money, I can put it in this thing that's gonna make more money. She's eight years old, like, that's awesome that she's getting that messaging now. And that could change her life. So I always tell people too, even if you're not interested in investing, you need to be investing to help the next generation of girls, because just a very small piece of information or a small gesture. You know, I just opened that account and I put 100 bucks in it for, not, you know it took me 15 minutes but that could change the direction of her life not because of the money, but because she understands the concept of investing to make her money work for her. So that's so powerful and those are the types of tools that are so worth learning.

Lesley Logan 25:55  

I have so many chills, I have so many chills. Okay, so one of the things that you like you, you said, is like helping women believe in that they can invest? What are some of the things that you, that, how do you work with women? Like, is this like, do we read your email and do like a blog is or like, how do we learn more with you? Because obviously, like, I'm wanting to sign up. Like, what is? What does it look like? And like, what if someone is like, I'm so nervous, like, what's the bare, you know, like, I know, for my listeners, like some of those, like, I just want to like, be it till I see it a little bit like what's the, how do we start, like a little baby, dip our toe into it? 

Tess Waresmith 26:35  

Sure. So I'll give you a few options, depending on if you want to dip your toe or jump in the deep end. So if you want to dip your toe, I share a ton of free investing information on Instagram and Tiktok @wealthwithTess, one word, @wealthwithTess. So on Instagram, I share a lot of stuff, I also have a free and this is my favorite guide I've ever created. It's a free savvy investor starter pack. So it's just a guide that you can download. It's a PDF download. But in the starter pack, I have four steps that you can walk through to start to figure out how you're going to invest and to break down some of the concepts that are most confusing because the most common question I get is, where do I start? So I created this guide to help you with that. So the guide walks through four different steps, including how to figure out how much money you might want to have in retirement, how to think about your expenses to start creating a gap for investing, you know, a gap between your income and your expenses to start investing, because obviously, you need some money consistently. And then in there, I also talk about high-level, what types of accounts are out there for you and then what types of investments you can start looking into that are really simple. So that is all in that guide that's at moneyconfidentcoach.com/savvy and in the savvy investor starter pack, I also have a video of the eight common investing mistakes I see people make and I made all of them. So if you want to avoid all the mistakes I made that guide is going to be the best place to start. So both of those are totally easy ways to learn. And then from there, I host free free investing workshops all the time. So there's tons of information that you can get for free. If you follow on Instagram or download that free guide. Those are the two best places to start if you just want to dip your toe. But then the way that I work with women is mostly in a small group setting, which is my favorite way to work with women, I have a small group coaching setting that includes a online program. And what I love about the small group is that everyone realizes they're all in the same boat, that everyone feels behind, that everyone feels overwhelmed by the jargon, and it creates just this awesome vibe of learning and a safe space. And it's awesome. And so that program goes for about a month. And by the end, you know the basics of how to open your own accounts and how to choose investments. It doesn't take long, it doesn't take months or years. We're talking one month, the program right now is four weeks long. And by the end, women are part of a great group, and they know how to choose their own investments. So it's pretty cool. And yeah, I'm just super, I feel super grateful to be doing this work because it's awesome to be able to make an impact in that short amount of time. 

Lesley Logan 29:16  

Yeah, that's huge. Okay. So I have one more question before we do the Be It Action Items and it's more a little selfish, but also like just something that's like still rolling in my head I felt I felt like maybe some of our listeners the same way. So I have a Roth IRA. I have it with some person I met, and it just is money that goes out the 18th every month. And I'm one of those people who like doesn't really log into my statement that often because I don't know. It just feels a little depressing. Sometimes. It's like, you want to see it grow faster than it is. A. you said like there's a certain fee that you were getting that you weren't aware of how do I find out if this person is actually like the best for me and if I figure out like if I do an interview with them. I don't know if that's a thing. And if they're not like, do I keep the Roth IRA with them? Do I stop and put the money on that? Like, what do you think is the best for people who are like, I'm afraid that the person who's doing my thing is not as good as I want them to be?

Tess Waresmith 30:12  

Yeah, so there's two directions, you can go here. But the first direction I would say, is and, unfortunately, this takes a little bit of time, but not a lot of time, is to get a basic education yourself, like either work with somebody like me, that's going to teach you the basics of investing so you can actually understand how they're investing your money, that's the best route to go. Because then you can really vet if they are actually, once you understand how the stock market works, what the basic returns are, and simple ways to invest that you could do on your own, then you can evaluate that against what they are doing for you. But there's a few things I would want to know right away, you know, regard if you don't have time to take that route, for whatever reason, what I would say is things you want to understand are number one, what is the fee, so what is the percentage, they're charging you assets under management. So most financial advisors work on this basis. And so whatever you're investing, they're taking out a fee. 1% is pretty standard and 1% sounds innocuous, but over time, 1% can be thousands and thousands of dollars. So for example, I just ran this math, and I'll try not to try not, to exploit everyone's brain here with math, but just to like hammer this home about how small fees can make such an impact. The basic tenets of investing are you invest, your money grows and then that larger amount compounds, and it's that snowball effect, right, that's the goal of investing is to you know, create the snowball effect with your money growing. Unfortunately, fees, do the exact same thing. So I did the math for someone the other day they had about, I think they had about 50,000 in their investing account. And they were maxing out there Roth every year at 6500, the max for to invest in a Roth IRA now is 7000. But the time we were talking it was 6500. And so we did the math, if they did that for 30 years, if they just maxed out their Roth with this 1% fee, they would end up paying the advisor $250,000 in fees over the lifetime of 30 years. 250,000 is worth a lot of money. It's a lot. So that's the first thing I would want to know is what the percentage fee is. And when they say 1% or more, that is a lot that is going to add up over time. So that's the first thing. I would also want to know if there's a platform fee. So sometimes there's another fee for using whatever platform they're investing in, I would also want to understand what type of investments they're in. So most people have heard of mutual funds. Mutual funds are, simply put, are an investment that holds a bunch of stocks. So instead of buying just Apple, you're buying Apple and Microsoft and Uber and Tesla and all these big companies in one fund. So all of those funds have fees and it's important to understand the basic fees of what those investments are. So you could ask your advisor, I want to know what your fee is, if there's a platform fee and I also want to know what the fees are for my investments. And to give you a benchmark, you can get a lot of wonderful, easy investments funds that hold, for example, the entire stock market, like you can buy a mutual fund that holds every single stock in the entire stock market. And you could just like leave it alone, that's a way to invest. That's not a bad strategy. So those funds, those have fees of like, point, 0.2%, whereas a lot of the funds I see with people that work with financial advisors can be close to a percent. So if you think about (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 33:46  

So my little, my little $500, my 7,000 a year is being like compounded. So it's a point where I might not be getting any money. 

Tess Waresmith 33:57  

I mean, no, you'll, you'll definitely get some money, but your returns will be significantly impacted. So then if you're thinking, okay, well, shoot, like, I want to dive into that, but I don't know, I'm nervous about learning myself. There are a lot of other wonderful tools to invest. There are advisors that charge flat fees. So it's a one-time fee or yearly fee that's flat amount. So that's very transparent. There are robo-advisors, which are investment tools where you can put in your information and it'll automatically choose a very simple, low-fee portfolio for you. That's great. Those are companies like Ellevest does that, that's an awesome like badass women's company that helps people create their own, like automated portfolios for them. So you don't need to know anything about investing. You can just open it, they charge you like a quarter of the fees of a financial advisor. You put in your info, your birthday, your goals, and they pick a very simple low-fee portfolio for you. That's a great option. That's called a robo-advisor. And then the other option is to learn how to do it yourself and so where I fit in this ecosystem is to help you make that decision. Like, that's why I teach people the basics of how the stock market works, what your options are, and how your money can grow in simple ways, because then once you understand that, most of the time, people want to either invest on their own, or, you know, they choose a robo-advisor, that's lower fee, and they call it a day. And the type of investing that I'm talking about, which is, you know, buying and holding funds for a long period of time, you're not having to go in there and check like Lesley, you said, you don't really want to go in there, that's actually good. For most people, that's the problem is they go in and they check in and they move things around, like the type of investing that's the best is when you buy some stuff, and you hold it for a long time and you like forget it's there. Like, that's usually the best strategy.

Lesley Logan 35:48  

The natural way of doing it is gonna be the best way I'm in. 

Tess Waresmith 35:50  

Yeah, totally. 

Lesley Logan 35:52  

You are awesome. Thank you so much for all this, we're gonna put all those links in the show notes, including your guide. But before I let you go, you've given us so, so many great things. I could talk to you for a couple more hours, but bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps we can take to be it till we see it. What do you have for us?

Tess Waresmith 36:11  

So the first thing that I really want to make sure that everyone does is journal on your relationship with money. So before we even get into investing and the tactical stuff, if you're sitting here being like, this all sounds great, Lesley and Tess, but I don't feel like I can do that. The first thing I want you to do is think about your relationship with money. And you can ask yourself questions like how do I feel when I transact money? Do I feel like there's a limit on how much money I can make? Do I feel like there is an opportunity for me to make more money or not, you know, those kinds of questions are really important. Do I think I'm capable of learning how to invest? If the answer is no, shoot me a DM and I want to talk to you because you're absolutely capable of it. But that is honestly the most important thing that I want you to do is to think about your relationship with money. And if somebody has told you some things about money, or you believe it or you're sitting there saying I don't think I'm good with money, are you not good with money? Or have you just not learned anything about money yet? Because those are two very different things.

Lesley Logan 37:13  

I love this extra juice. You all have to do it because I think it was at the end of the last year Brad and I we were doing a thing and the guy was like your homework today is to write a letter to money and maybe an apology letter maybe it's hey longtime friend, it's been a while, maybe, maybe you're angry and you never told money how angry you are, like you got and I wrote this letter it was the craziest thing that came out of my like head about money and there was like things I was mad about but then there's things I was like sorry about it was a whole thing. And it truly was like a load off. And I didn't think I had a bad, like I love money, like I do. There's a money rampage I listen to, Abraham Hicks, you guys, like every day, like I, it's my favorite. Five minutes on like getting my money mindset, right. But it was really interesting how like, I like push it away. (inaudible) Like it's not like it's like gets to be my best friend at lunch. And so it's I love this action. And I'm so excited for you all to do it. And you have to tell Tess and I how it goes because we want to know. So share this episode, y'all. I'm really, this is really important. If we could all if every listener shared this with a female friend, can you imagine like the power that the change that would have would have on just the family members of the women around not alone the domino effect will have in this country and around the world because I do think that there has been a lot of generations of like, ladies don't have to learn about money. And it is it is a problem. It's why we have a wage gap. It's why we have wealth gaps. And it's and if we can actually change that then we don't need to lean on people who know more than us. And air quotes we can actually like make decisions for ourselves and we can go after things we've always wanted to. So Tess, thank you for opening our eyes. We're gonna talk to you again, I'm sure because I'm obsessed already. And until next time, everyone, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 39:49  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 39:54  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 39:58  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 40:05  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 40:09  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

From fitness milestones to being a best-selling author, this episode is dedicated for you to acknowledge asymmetries and focus on your capabilities. Learn about the importance of asking for help and continue to strive and take up the challenge as Lesley shares her listener's wins in today’s FYF episode. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why you should celebrate the movement in practice while building connections.
• The importance of taking up the challenge despite initial difficulties.
• Why you should recognize the need to ask for help. 

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Lisa MacDonald, an agency member
• Mentions, Joanne Sutton, an agency member
• Mentions, Olivia Walton, an agency member

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

DEALS! Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper’s Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Follow Us on Social Media:

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday.

Brad Crowell 0:01  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Get ready for some wins. 

Lesley Logan 0:05  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:47  

Hi, Be It babe. Happy Friday. Happy FYF Fuck Yeah Friday because it's a day to celebrate wins. I mean, you should celebrate them every day. But I know you. I am you. For recovering perfectionist and overachiever. And I get it, so hard. So alright, let's share your wins first. That's how this goes. If you're new to the pod Hi, Lesley here. Tuesdays are our interviews, Thursdays are all the recaps. It's really fun. You can hear Brad and I share our favorite takeaways, which I think is really cool. Because it's another way to like integrate what you are learning. And by the way, you want to integrate what you're learning, so that you don't just like keep getting more and more information that will overwhelm you. And then you know, and then today we celebrate wins. And I always celebrate the wins you send in. And then I celebrate a win of mine. And we get to practice celebrating like the little things. It's the little things sometimes. Sometimes, it's the big things too, but hopefully you're not just waiting till they're big to do it. So the first one is from Lisa MacDonald. She is an eLevate grad, she's my mentorship. She has been an agency member for years. And she said I started my day with the crab special love, love, love. First of all, I was so excited when I saw the title for today's class because I love doing the crap. But what I love even more were the connections that we worked on building up to the exercise, especially love the elbows on my knees for rolling like a ball. Hello, shoulders taking over. So we're billing, you're the best Lesley Logan. I'm doing this one again and again. So Lisa MacDonald was talking about the OPC workout for that week. And I just really love when people celebrate a win in their movement practice. Because it's so easy for us to focus on the exercise we can't do. And just so you all know like Lisa's been practicing Pilates for years and years and years. And if you are like what is that even exercise mean? That's okay. It's one of the more advanced ones that a lot of people don't know and can wait a while to know what that is. And also like, just because you've been practicing it doesn't mean comes easy for her. Like we all have our asymmetries. We all have the things we're really great at. So way to go, Lisa. That's so fun to read. 

Lesley Logan 2:39  

I got another one for you. This one is from Joanne Sutton. She is an agency member for several years from Australia. It's officially been confirmed. I'm a bestselling author. Yes, Joanne. Yes, you are bestselling author. I'm so excited for you, you guys. It's our third agency member to be a bestselling author. And I'm just so freakin stoked. I'm just really, really, really proud of you. I'm gonna do one more win because I'm just in a winning mood. This one's from Olivia Walton. And she is an eLevate grad. I actually just had her here at the house for the eLevate reunion. That's my mentorship for teachers. And she also has a win about OPC. It's that I just took the OPC 50-minute Cadillac workout and did finally go for the first time since I learned it and eLevate, the cadi weekend, when I was not taking the best care of my back injury. And today it felt so great and so ugly and I'm so happy I just let myself do ugly Pilates a big win for me. And I did monkey and actually bent my elbows with my arms on my back. I can't wait to see some of you in real life soon. So obviously this one was before the eLevate retreat, but like it's just going back to what I was saying with Lisa like it's so cool to let yourself be in process everyone you don't have a Pilates instructor to be in process. You can be a regular human who is just trying to learn things. So congratulations. And there's a follow-up to this win and I'm going to add it in here because we actually had the best time at our eLevate retreat. It was so much fun. And Olivia was on my house probably longer than she should have been. And so her win is I made it to my flight on time after wanting to soak up every single second I could on the last day of the eLevate alumni retreat. My heart is so full. I love all of you even the ones I haven't squeezed yet. Ah, Olivia, Joanne, Lisa, thank you so much for sending these wins in because you just helped a ton of people understand that you don't have to have these many wins, like and I like I finally like hit all 17 goals perfectly like you don't ever have to do that you actually can celebrate these goals when they're in process. We've actually celebrated some of Joanne's wins along the way as she like turned in her edits and things like that. So like it's just really really, really cool. Celebrate big and small and even that what seems to be so menial like making a flight on time. That's a win. That is a win. 

Lesley Logan 4:50  

All right, my win. So it's been a little bit but I am excited to announce that my win is I found an assistant. Found an amazing assistant and I, Brad and I have been looking for months for an assistant, I was really actually thinking I could like with the team and I could just like figure it out on our own. We probably didn't need it. Like, we have a huge team already do we really need it? And I was doing this thing where I was like talking myself out of something that like, no, like ever, all of us need help and struggle to find, help tried finding different people. They weren't returning our calls, things like that. And I happened to find this person because asked for help. So maybe the bigger win is ask for help. I asked for help. I literally went to social media and said hey, guys, I need an assistant. Here's what I need. Here are the requirements. And I'm just so excited because of who I got. So yay for my assistant. But the win is like I asked for help in a unique place and stopped going, I still can't find one. But I guess I'll just like keep plugging along in a way that's not supporting me. So that is my win. Finding someone to help support me in the process. 

Lesley Logan 6:00  

Okay, now, for your mantra for the weekend. The mantra is, I leave room in my life for spontaneity. I leave room in my life for spontaneity. I love that one so much. I leave room in my life for spontaneity. Maybe your win this week is a spontaneity that you left room in your life for. Tell the Be It pod if you did. All right, amazing people. You're awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener to the Be It Pod. You truly make this pod so worth doing. And I can't wait for you to hear us on the next episode Until then, Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 6:35  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day.  

Lesley Logan 7:03  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 7:18  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:23  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 7:27  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 7:34  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 7:38  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Betrayal leaves deep wounds, but it also opens the door to profound personal transformation. In this powerful episode, Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell recap Dr. Debi Silber’s episode, discussing the intentional nature of betrayal, its impact on our lives, and the deliberate steps needed to heal. Listeners will find solace, understanding, and strategies for setting better boundaries and to prevent repeated betrayals.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Addressing concerns about insufficient teacher training and alternative learning paths.
• The personal impact of betrayal and its distinct nature from other traumas.
• How betrayal can be a catalyst for personal growth and transformation.
• Overview of the process and stages involved in recovering from betrayal.
• The importance of establishing strong boundaries to prevent future betrayals.

Episode References/Links:

• The PBT Institute
• Studio Growth Accelerator
• OPC Summer Camp
• Cambodia February 2025 Early Bird
• 4-Week Pilates Challenge
• eLevate Waitlist
• Little Readers Big Change

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

DEALS! Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper’s Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Follow Us on Social Media:

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

She said time heals all wounds but that does not apply to betrayal. And she said healing needs to be deliberate and intentional. Like you actually have to be deliberate and intentional with your healing. 

Lesley Logan 0:11  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:49  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the transformative convo I had with Dr. Debi Silber in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to the interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Holy freaking moly. We have never had a topic on betrayal. Nope. First time and not only do we will talk about betrayal, but she is the leading doctor on betrayal. She has so much scientific information you guys if you

Brad Crowell 0:57  

TED talks, education from stage, workshops. She's an institute. 

Lesley Logan 1:23  

If anyone in your life is like act like reacting to being betrayed in their life and other things that they're doing and they keep going well, I had this extra do this thing. Holy fricking moly, send them the episode. It was so informative, so good. And it's like, it's I mean, we'll get we'll get into it in a second. Anyways, today is April 4th, and it's School Librarian Day. Okay. Of course we're gonna highlight this day because we're all about the books on this podcast. So about this day, the day is observed to recognize the professionals who keep school libraries well-stocked in the books in perfect order. School librarians, I'm just gonna say, also librarians, if you're a public school public librarian this is you too, your school librarians spend long hours keeping the library organized, they also, they're also likely to be the first people to help students find the resources they need to learn. Pause. Yes, so many librarians I've heard on the news in the last year are the only safe person to suggest books to a lot of people. Anyways, they also encourage students pursue reading outside of academic text. School librarians are also responsible for creating an environment where students are motivated to learn. Their work is truly an accomplishment. With that said, if you didn't already know this, in 2024 OPC is supporting the nonprofit organization the Wheat Penny press and their program Little Readers Big Change along with Be It podcast, Rebekah Borucki, who runs it with every dollar spent so all you OPC members out there just know that you are part of providing free and low-cost books programming and funding for the creative arts to our most vulnerable communities and their most talented members. Thank you for being an OPC member and thank you for supporting reading. And we had Danny Brassel on who talked about like how he helps kids want to read and it's about giving them books that they actually want to read.

Brad Crowell 3:06  

That was a fun episode. 

Lesley Logan 3:07  

I know. With Nick Hutchison coming up soon it's gonna be about how The Rise of the Reader. 

Brad Crowell 3:13  

Jake Kelfer. 

Lesley Logan 3:13  

Well, Jake Kelfer is for the writers. 

Brad Crowell 3:15  

Yeah, but, books.

Lesley Logan 3:16  

And then, Nick is actually you're gonna learn how to retain what you're reading. Danny Brassel helps you get your kids reading and Rebekah Borucki who was recently a guest holy freaking moly, she is making sure that what we're reading is like making change. So. 

Brad Crowell 3:31  

Pretty rad.

Lesley Logan 3:32  

You guys. 

Brad Crowell 3:32  

Well, anyway, a sincere heartfelt thank you to all the OPC members out there. We love being able to donate to different causes. And we change, each year we pick a new cause and we get to donate throughout the year. And so we're really fired up to be supporting Little Readers Big Change along with you.

Lesley Logan 3:54  

Along with you. And you know, like support your local library. Brad's cousin is a librarian and she is like, all about like, getting me on Libby getting me to go get my library card and all that stuff. So like, support the libraries, they're really amazing and it's just, you know, look, you don't need to scroll so much. So anyway, okay. 

Brad Crowell 4:14  

Read a book. 

Lesley Logan 4:15  

This afternoon. So if you happen to listen to this in the morning, when it drops, you can still sign up for the Studio Growth Accelerator which is for Pilates teachers and studio owners who are ready to make some changes in their business and who want to learn and also work on your business. So you're going to get information and integrate it. 

Brad Crowell 4:32  

We're going to be running through the proprietary Accel formula. A-C-C-E- L. Short for accelerator, y'all. Basically, we're going to we're going to really dig into how do you bring new clients in, how do you work with those clients to make them champions for your business so that they go out into the world and share your business with their relationships and it's going to be amazing. So if you're looking to jumpstart the growth of your studio, this is a great way to do it. Join me this afternoon there will be a three-day replay and if you missed it that's okay if you listen to this late, just DM us because you know we'll get you on the waitlist for the next time. The next one. Okay? PRfit.biz/accelerator. PRfit.biz/accelerator. 

Lesley Logan 5:19  

And if you listen to last week's episode you understand that spelling accelerator is two Cs, one O. 

Brad Crowell 5:24  

Hence the Accel... 

Lesley Logan 5:26  

Well excel you could spell with an E

Brad Crowell 5:28  

...programs. No, no. That's excel. This is accel. A-C-C-E-L-E-R-A-T-O-R. Well.

Lesley Logan 5:35  

Okay. Summer Camp. Okay, so I was, the time we tell the team when we're designing summer camp I'm like think American hot summer like, get like look up. 

Brad Crowell 5:46  

What is it? What? Hot American Summer (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 5:48  

I was like, look up look at what Christopher Maloney is wearing. I want Brad to dress like that for the Zoom calls. Like I want people to have hot shorts. I want Elizabeth Banks like I 

Brad Crowell 5:59  

Bradley Cooper was in there. 

Lesley Logan 6:00  

Everybody who was in this show. (inaudible) I want, so here's the thing, the way I see summer camp for OPC is all the best parts of summer camp without the bunks, bunk beds.

Brad Crowell 6:13  

Without the bugs. 

Lesley Logan 6:14  

Without the bugs, without the travel. 

Brad Crowell 6:16  

Without the mean girls. 

Lesley Logan 6:18  

Without the mean girls or the weird people or you know the shit food. So you can wear whatever you want, you can be off camera if you want, you can actually sign up and watch it later because you'll have lifetime access to the replays. But you do want 

Brad Crowell 6:32  

That's a big event for us, y'all. This is not like two workshops. This is going to be like potentially like all-day events, two days in a row. 

Lesley Logan 6:39  

It could be like, we're looking at potentially up to 14 or 16 events in two days. 

Brad Crowell 6:45  

Crazy. 

Lesley Logan 6:46  

We've been planning this for over a year because y'all loved summer camp so much last year, we had like the best time with summer camp. And so we are actually promoting early because we want as many people to be able to do summer camp with us. I'm like I want camp counselor shirts. I want the whole thing. So OPC.me/workshops. The reason why we want you on the waitlist even though you're like, Lesley, (inaudible) later. Correct. But if you're on the waitlist, you get the second-best prices of the early bird. The people who get the best best prices are those OPC members who are helping Little Readers Big Change. So, you want to be an OPC member to get the best earlybird. Second best is the workshop waitlist. Third best is hearing from the public. And fourth best is full price.

Brad Crowell 7:29  

Fourth best, fourth best.

Lesley Logan 7:31  

Okay. OPC.me/workshops. Also, Cambodia. As you mentioned in last week's episode, Brad. Brad thinks it's sold out. It's possible that it's sold out by now because it's April 4th, but we did schedule already and pick our dates for February 2025. Holy fricking moly, it's gonna be so fun. Like I said last week, best sunrises are in the February time and it's just before the weather gets hot. So you want to go to crowsnestretreats.com, crowsnestretreats.com to snag your early bird rate for February 2025.

Brad Crowell 8:07  

Yeah, join us it's gonna be amazing. I am so excited.

Lesley Logan 8:11  

I'm so excited. Oh my gosh, our October retreat, the people who are coming on this are freaking so excited. One of our girls is coming for the second year in a row. We've, because we've made some changes and like it's so fun. And we've got some eLevate members coming. We've got some OPC members coming. We've got some people we've never met coming and it's just gonna be a freaking blast. 

Brad Crowell 8:29  

It's going to be amazing. 

Lesley Logan 8:28  

So amazing. So, crowsnestretreats.com if you are wanting to come, if you're like Lesley when are you doing a retreat somewhere else? I don't have the time. I want to go there. And you can join at my house, come to my house. I would love to do a retreat somewhere else but I'm just going to tell you right now, the amount of work that goes into putting the retreat on that is an amazing, unforgettable experience is something you I can never express I could never actually share. And so while I would love to do a retreat somewhere else, I also would love one, of the reasons we did Cambodia retreat is because I think it's really, really important to see places in the world you might never see and a lot of places where people go on retreats just feel like a like America-like. And I really enjoy so immersing myself in a culture that's so uniquely different than my own. And seeing things that like it's just takes you out of your normal routine. You're 12 hours to 15 hours ahead. So like you are just really out of your routine. It's not the same timezone as your family like, I really love to get out and just be in a, in the village like being around other people and how the world is so different there.

Brad Crowell 9:15  

It's a transformational experience. I mean, I truly believe that when we have the opportunity to experience cultures that are not our own. It changes our perspective in a way that allows us to be more empathetic, more kind to others, more excited for other people, because they're people too, doing life the way they do life and it's different than the way that we do life but it allows this polarization that's happening in our, you know, in American society about others, like, you know, those other people, they're bad or something. You know, it allows you to see another culture in a way that is like, whoa, totally different than how we do things. But they're fucking great people, too.

Brad Crowell 9:35  

Oh, yeah. I mean, it also helps you vote with others in mind. Just a thought. Okay. So go do that. Come with us. Okay. And don't forget.

Brad Crowell 10:36  

If you love a good challenge and you're looking for one that's a four-weeker.

Lesley Logan 10:40  

You want to do my challenges. Come on, guys. The reformer challenge and mat challenge are available anytime. Which, I'm telling you, this is your prompt to sign up now. At OPC.me/challenge. Just pick the challenge you want. They are, it's the first week's 10 minutes, the second week's, 20 minutes. The third week is 30 minutes. And the fourth biggest (inaudible), 40 minutes. You see how that goes. 

Brad Crowell 11:01  

Is that how it works? 

Lesley Logan 11:02  

Yeah. And so, I want you to all do it, I want you to have some fun. I want you to get it out of your head and into your body. I want you to do it imperfectly. I had someone say, Ah, this is too fast. And I said, Great. Do it slower and just skip half the exercises. It's not about being perfect, you don't have to look like me. You don't have to do it like me, I even tell you to replace what you can't do with what you can. Pilates is the thing that helps you realize like how you talk and treat yourself. You are allowed to be imperfect and to be in process. And that's what this challenge is all about. It's super fun to learn how to do habits while doing it. So, OPC.me/challenge.

Brad Crowell 11:36  

Yeah. And you can pick either the mat or the reformer. How about that? 

Lesley Logan 11:39  

How about that? 

Brad Crowell 11:40  

Alright. So we had an audience question. And it was from Michelle. She said hi, I'm in a teacher training program that doesn't feel like it's giving me enough information and I'd love to learn from more from you about how to teach. Is OPC your only option? 

Lesley Logan 11:57  

Yeah. 

Brad Crowell 11:57  

And I just want to say first off, I'm sorry that you're in a program that isn't meeting your needs. And clearly, as a student, if you're going what the hell I expected more. That sucks. 

Lesley Logan 12:08  

Yeah, so it sucks. I got this from our customer service team. And first of all, this is exactly why I wrote my book Profitable Pilates: Everything But the Exercises. And the unfortunate thing is, I don't think as many people get it before they choose a program. They get it after they choose a program. So I'll work on that. But a lot of programs have a lot to be (inaudible). And it's also just want to say to any teacher trainees listening, it is not totally your fault. In fact, it's probably not even your fault. You might be doing someone else's program. But the other thing is, is like we are an unregulated industry, the Pilates industry is unregulated, meaning that your massage therapist, do you all know, if you're living in the States, your nail technician had to take a state exam, like literally had to take a state exam for you to complain about a $15 pedicure, they had to take a state exam. And in the Pilates industry, there is an organization that has created an exam so you can be truly certified. But there's no, there's no regulation in this country. And that means people can create a training program. And there's something great about that you could just create a training program if you want one, and you need teachers. But when there's regulations, there are things like refund policies, there are ways that you can complain about the company, you can be treated with respect, they can't abuse you, things like that. So a lot of programs do have a lot (inaudible). And here's the other reason. Even if it's the best program in the world, when you're a new teacher, you cannot learn as much as you think. It's so much information. 

Brad Crowell 13:43  

It's overwhelm. 

Lesley Logan 13:43  

It is so much information, which is why everyone ends up doing a second training, which yes means you spend more money. So look, I really do feel free, Michelle, I love this question. You're not the only person to ask me something similar in the exact same week. So here's the deal. OPC is not the only option to learn from me, but OPC is the most affordable option. So I teach at least half the classes on OPC every single month. And we have themes. And if you like seeing how I connect exercises to exercises, take class with me. That's how it works. And guess what, take class with other teachers on OPC. They do the exact same, too and they do it with different body types. And that is so important. So please, please, please and $79 a month is not cheap, but it's not expensive. And if you are a teacher, it's a write-off. You can put it as your education. 

Brad Crowell 14:30  

Education and training, y'all.

Lesley Logan 14:32  

So all the more reason to not be a sole profit, that's a different story. If you are wanting more you're actually wanting to learn with me. Right? There's a from and there's a with. That would be eLevate, which is our mentorship program. As we were recording this, we just wrapped day one of weekend two. It's another investment. I'm gonna be really honest. It is another investment that's on purpose. I want you to show up for you. And I only want to have 12 people in a group. So in order to dedicate over all the five weekends and tons of calls and all the time on one-on-one calls with you, it is an investment, but it is an option. So you can go to lesleylogan.co/elevate to get on the waitlist, we're probably going to open up applications for 2025 really soon. And we're really excited we have so many people who want 2025, we'll probably open up applications. And then based on who applies and who gets accepted, we will pick the times of the days we already have the weekends picked because we have the retreat picked. But I just want to say to anyone listening to this, Pilates teacher who just feels like their first training program didn't teach them enough. Let's just let it go. Just let it go. Just pretend that they did the best they can with what they had. You did the best you could with what you had. And that and just know that I did three training programs. So there you go. 

Brad Crowell 15:50  

There you go.

Lesley Logan 15:53  

And it's because you can only take in so much. And then you have to go teach and you realize what doesn't work and you teach again, anyways.

Brad Crowell 16:03  

Well, Michelle, thanks for asking that. If you have a question for us. Just reach out, you can DM us on the pod on Instagram, you can hit up our Customer Support Chat. You can text us, all the things, however you want to reach out. Just ping us and you know, we might include your question on the pod. Okay, let's talk about Dr. Debi Silber. Debi Silber PhD, founder of the PBT Institute, a Pilates expertise in health and personal developments, to her innovative Post Betrayal Transformation Program. Drawing on her own experiences and extensive research, she has developed groundbreaking strategies for overcoming and fully healing from betrayal. And her groundbreaking strategies that she came up with, they went viral, like it was like a big deal. Like boom, that's what like really allowed her to shift into this role, you know, full-time. 

Lesley Logan 16:58  

I, when I heard about her, I was like, Oh my God. We have to talk about this because I think we talked about other things that are around relationships, family, grief, all these other things, sex, all this stuff. But betrayal, I mean, and so maybe some of those episodes, you should go back and listen to after hearing this because if you have experienced betrayal 

Brad Crowell 17:19  

Puts a different lens on. 

Lesley Logan 17:20  

You may have hated what they said. 

Brad Crowell 17:24  

Sure. 

Lesley Logan 17:25  

Anyways, Okay, my turn. 

Brad Crowell 17:26  

Yeah. 

Lesley Logan 17:27  

One of the things I love is that we actually talked about how betrayal is a different type of trauma than death, disease or natural disaster. And I think it's easy to put betrayal in kind of like those same experiences of trauma. But she says it feels intentional snd we take it personally. And our entire 

Brad Crowell 17:44  

Betrayal feels intentional. 

Lesley Logan 17:45  

Yes, it feels intentional. And sometimes it might not even be, it might be all about them. But probably is, but our entire self gets shattered and requires rebuilding. She said rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthyness and trust, these are all demolished and have to be rebuilt. So if you have been betrayed, and you just feel like you are left, like, like an open wound and just shattered, you have and it's, it's not like you just rebuild a house or you like you just start dating someone else, or you go through a grieving process and remember them on special days, like it's, can be really difficult. 

Brad Crowell 17:46  

Yeah, well, she talks about her five phases, which, you know, the best thing to do is to go back through, we're going to cover, we're going to cover four of the five phases a little bit later on in the pod. But, you know, she said something really interesting. She said, you don't outgrow betrayal. Like it's and she has the scientific proof to demonstrate that. 

Lesley Logan 18:56  

Meaning if like you were (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 18:58  

Time doesn't heal all.

Lesley Logan 18:59  

And you feel like you're betrayed by your parents. You know, just like become an adult and you're good. 

Lesley Logan 19:04  

Right, right. She was specifically talking about grief and time and the way that we talk about that societaly. 

Lesley Logan 19:11  

She especially said time, she said time heals all wounds, but does not, that does not apply to betrayal. And she said healing needs to be deliberate and intentional. Like you actually have to be deliberate and intentional with your healing.

Brad Crowell 19:23  

Yeah, the you know, and so what's great is that she also has a process, she goes through, like, how does that happen? How do you do that? Right, but I just found that really, really intriguing because she's not just talking about divorce, you know, she could be talking about family, parents, siblings, best friends, you know. 

Lesley Logan 19:44  

It could be a coworker.

Brad Crowell 19:45  

Yeah. She actually talked about her, your boss, and I was like, wow, that's crazy. I didn't even realize that, you know, I've been definitely betrayed at work in my old job and I was really hurt by that. You know, but I today like, you know, a couple years later, I just didn't even think about it until let's say this conversation, I was like, oh my god, that was me too. You know, so I, you know, there's a lot of context for betrayal in our lives. And she said, the amount of betrayal really depends on how close you are to the person on how close how much you allow them to weigh into your life.

Lesley Logan 20:22  

I agree. Because like, if you're betrayed by a coworker, that you saw Monday through Friday, a little bit each day, that is going to be hard and shattering. But if you switch jobs or get them out of your life, it's different than like a spouse or a parent because like they're, it's interesting, like I was listening to something recently, where if, like, certain breakups can feel so hard, because it's not that you're grieving the break up of the past, but also the future that you had with them. And if a betrayal is someone where there's a future that you had seen yourself going down with them, you discussed with them. That is also, that's part of the shatter that you're going through, because your future has also changed. What you thought was possible has changed. 

Brad Crowell 21:13  

Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a really fascinating point as well. You know.

Lesley Logan 21:21  

Now that I think about it, I feel like maybe there are people in my life who thinks I betrayed them, too. So now, I just felt like a little bit of a dick. It wasn't on purpose. I hope they don't think that but anyway, you know, I'm thinking about the person like what the way I, I don't think I always say like, I don't really think I did a great job breaking up with my ex, because I never broken up with anyone. And like, I'm sure they felt very betrayed in that moment. And I didn't know like, I was just like, no, we're just breaking up because I don't think we love each other that much. And one of the ways that I wanted to make sure that they didn't feel betrayed was like, I went through with the court proceedings we had against a family member of theirs, and I pretended to still be together. But I'm sure that felt like a massive betrayal to them, you know. And so now I think back, like, no wonder they were so shattered. And, you know, when that was all over, so I think it's really interesting. Like, it's even in your kindness, or most thought-out ways of doing things you can accidentally make someone feel betrayed.

Lesley Logan 21:22  

That's interesting. I definitely hadn't thought of that. I mean, for me, it was the other way around.

Lesley Logan 21:35  

I mean, you're so perfect, Brad, you've not even betrayed anyone. 

Brad Crowell 22:30  

I sure have. 

Lesley Logan 22:31  

I mean, you did quit your own band.

Brad Crowell 22:34  

That's betrayal. That totally is, you know, like, we, that's true. And that's a good way, that's a good thing to point out. And like, I wasn't trying to let down who's one of the people in my life, who was one of my best friends, you know, and we still, you know, but also, like, I've had business relationships go bad. I've had, you know, just life, right? Life's life is what we like to say. But still, no matter what the circumstance is, there is a sense of betrayal that can be felt by one party or the other, whether it's as dramatic as a breakup or a divorce. Or as you know, you know, like, hey, this, this program is over, I'm out, and then the person is no longer in your life anymore. 

Lesley Logan 23:15  

Well, it's also interesting, okay, off-topic, but like, I'm just also thinking, like, for some of the things where I am, like thinking back, like maybe they felt very betrayed by me in that same moment, I also felt very betrayed by them. So it's so fascinating how it could be like, an equal betrayed experience.

Brad Crowell 23:33  

Well, yeah, I think I think that's.

Lesley Logan 23:34  

Now you have our back and it's (inaudible) explain that. 

Brad Crowell 23:37  

Well, I think it's important to point that out, right? Like, because there's a reason that you chose to leave that relationship. And it was because promises were made and not kept. And so sure, it totally makes sense that you would also feel betrayed in that moment, which then was betrayal enough to cause you to take action, right? We're gonna talk about this. I'll talk about what I really loved about her after I say this with my you know, when my ex and I got a divorce, and then you and I started dating. The story that we've put out there is that I broke up with you two times. I mean, I literally did this so it's it's not a not a fake story. But we told everyone, we shared that I broke up with you twice and. 

Lesley Logan 24:17  

People hate when we tell the story. They get so mad at Brad. 

Brad Crowell 24:20  

They get so mad at me. 

Lesley Logan 24:21  

They get so mad but he doesn't share.

Brad Crowell 24:23  

Well, I don't really share I wait till a certain point in the story to talk about why I did that for dramatic effect. But the reality of it is when you're listening to last episode and you're talking about the different stages that you know of moving through betrayal you know that Dr. Silber has created, I was almost stuck in one phase and that phase was like it was a keeping me where I was and I was operating out of fear and the fear was effectively I felt so betrayed so hurt by my ex, that I was almost unwilling to ever even put myself in the position again, to be betrayed in that manner. Right? Which is why when things started to get real, I was like, I got to get the fuck out. Like, I can't handle this, this is too much for me. I can't do it. I don't want to be hurt that way again. Right? And so I've never really thought of my divorce as betrayal. That term never came into my mind. But thinking about it now, I definitely felt betrayed.

Lesley Logan 25:31  

I mean, also, I think so. Because I think that like, how could you not feel betrayed? You thought you guys would be together forever. Like, there's a lot. There's, I mean, I think like, anyone who hears your story would go, Oh, my God, I felt so betrayed, which is why they stop hating you at that point in the story and start loving you.

Brad Crowell 25:47  

You know, on the introspective side, I wonder if I wonder how she felt betrayed. You know, and I don't actually. 

Lesley Logan 25:55  

Okay, so now we have to talk. Okay, Melissa, we have to have Dr. Silber back, because now I need to know if people who are betrayed if the betrayer also felt betrayed, I need the studies. 

Brad Crowell 26:06  

Yeah, I'm really interested in this.

Lesley Logan 26:07  

Melissa are you listening? Does she listen? 

Brad Crowell 26:11  

Well, okay, so, you know, moving on here. She also, Dr. Silber, Debi, also said she looks at betrayal as an opportunity to completely catapult yourself to a level that you never thought was even possible. And I, you know, she said something really interesting about this, that I, you know, that sounds like, you know, just, you know, polish it up and make it like, you know, look good, feel good, whatever. But she was actually the story that she gave was, she had, she was always talking to herself, like talking down to herself. And, you know, because she would get lost. So she doesn't, you know, she's not good at following directions, or whatever, and would like end up someplace and be like, fucking lost again, I'm such an idio. I can't believe it. What's wrong with me. Right? And so the story that she's telling herself is like, you're bad at this, like, how come you always mess this up? And she reframed that in a way that allowed her to completely catapult herself to a new level that she never thought was possible by shifting the way that she talked to herself and saying, that is just adorable. You did it again. You know, and think about that, like, you're still probably frustrated with yourself, but you're not berating yourself and beating yourself up.

Lesley Logan 27:36  

Yeah, I think that's so important. Even if you've never been betrayed, like, Guys, we talk about this all the time at OPC, you have to like how you talk to yourself matters. It really does. Forget matters. It can literally change your day from being amazing and feeling happy to like, being depressed. And feel like a failure all the time. Anyways. 

Brad Crowell 27:57  

Well, I mean, you know, we talk about speaking into existence and be it till you see it. You know, when you reframe the story, you're telling yourself it, it lends itself to creating an entirely new version of you, right, and then, as you have this positive self-talk and you're treating yourself with respect, you start to take a look at all the parts of you that you love, and you start to leave behind the things that no longer serve you, right, and then you start to not tolerate that negative part of yourself anymore, and it just shifts you, it changes you. And so, you know, it really, it's a really interesting, it's a really interesting idea, and I think it's worth pursuing you know? 

Lesley Logan 28:39  

I love it. 

Brad Crowell 28:40  

Alright, so finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Dr. Debi Silber? So she's talked about these stages. There are five predictable stages. And we didn't actually apparently cover the fifth stage. So I don't actually know what that is. But the first four.

Lesley Logan 29:01  

Another reason to have Dr. Silber back.

Brad Crowell 29:03  

The first four are the four table legs, right? She talks about the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual side of recovering from betrayal. And she said most people focus on the mental and the physical, or actually, I think she said the mental and the emotional. But she said there's two that people focus on most, they don't really focus on the other two sides. And so you're not creating a stable foundation. So that's stage one. And stage two is shock, trauma and D-Day or discovery day. This is the scariest of all the stages. It's a breakdown of the body, the mind the worldview, where you've gotten this news, you have a stressful response, which leads to you know, basically, chaos right? Chaos in your mind, chaos in life. Step three, then you shift into survival instinct, where you're grabbing anything or anyone to stay safe and alive. You're, you shift into practicality. We were referring to it a couple of weeks ago as fifth gear, you know as shit hits the fan, go up into fifth gear, you gotta power through figure it out, you're, you never leave time for yourself, you're always operating at this, like, where's when is the other shoe gonna drop whatever analogy you want to do. And she said, that's actually the most common place to be stuck in. And that's so that's stage three. Stage four is finding and adjusting to the new normal. Right? So now that like, life has shifted, after the chaos and like really the go, go, go of stage three, you know, can you downshift can you get back into stage into a place that isn't quite as high-strung, intense, anxiety, you know, anxiety-driven, all those kinds of things. She said, most people get stuck in stage three. So that said, going back to our Be It Actions here, she said if you are stuck in stage three, you should write these four questions down. Number one. Am I numbing or avoiding distractions? You need to call yourself on it like call yourself on the walk to the refrigerator when you're opening the door, even though you're not hungry. Call yourself on the TV, you know, because you're desperately trying to drown out other sound the sound of your own thoughts. You know, what are you doing to distract yourself? Is it video games? Is it drinking? Is it? You know, running? Is it? I don't know what it is, you know. There's this lots of different opportunities. You know, the second question, what am I trying not to see? What am I trying not to see? Again, call yourself on it, such as that health issue that needs my attention. The relationship issue that I'm avoiding. The job that I absolutely hate, you know, there's avoidance, right is probably a pretty good indicator. And you know, it's hard, it's hard to address these things you're avoiding. You know, but it's the thing you're trying not to see, right? So number three, what is life going to look like in five or 10 years? If I continue to do the actions that I'm currently doing today?

Lesley Logan 32:09  

That's a hard oh my god, oh.

Brad Crowell 32:12  

Yeah. You know, like, I think I remember, I remember, when I was going through my divorce, I decided to just start drinking. And, you know, I was drinking a lot. And I was feeling like garbage the next day when I would go into work. And after a few months, it was bad enough that I was like, Okay, I pretty much hate the way I feel i can't function. And if I keep down this road, I didn't think five or 10 years later, I literally thought like, in two more months, I'm gonna be toast like I can't do this anymore. And that, that was like a really interesting, like introspective moment that where I was interested in making a change, you know? So I think this question is helpful to be reflective on yourself, what is life gonna look like in five to 10 years? And then number four, is what can life look like, in five or 10 years, if I make a change today? So that's a really encouraging one, that's a really exciting one, it helps you see the future, see the vision of what could be for you if you're going to make a change in your life today. So, you know, when you're stuck in stage three, you know, which is again, survival mode, basically. You know, these are four questions that you can help, you know, ask yourself to help you shift through it.

Lesley Logan 33:40  

Yeah, I had a Be It Action Item about repeat betrayal, repeat betrayal. So this is if you like, find like you keep getting betrayed. She said you are lovable, worthy, and deserving. But she also said, for the Be It Action, you need better boundaries in place. And we talk about this a lot with the people that we coach, which is like you train people how to treat you, which are boundaries. And I just want to say, just because we say that doesn't mean people won't betray you. But I do think you will feel it differently if you had better boundaries in place. Because you will probably see it before. Like, there's just you might be able to like you won't feel like it's happening to you. So I don't know, I could be wrong, Debi, you can tell me. But the reality is.

Brad Crowell 34:31  

You did talk about this because you asked her like, hey, you know, if I get betrayed again, do I have to go back to stage three? 

Lesley Logan 34:39  

Yeah, yeah. So she said you need better boundaries in place and she's like, unless there's a benefit in learning the hard way. And she, she said as a targeted step, you can identify areas lacking boundaries or reflect on aspects of your life where boundaries are weak or nonexistent and set boundaries in place. And here's the deal guys. Guess what? When you put boundaries in place where there wasn't one, people might feel betrayed by that. You need to understand. 

Brad Crowell 35:08  

It's possible. 

Lesley Logan 35:09  

It's true like for my teachers who are listening, if you never charge for late cancels and you start charging for late cancels, people gonna be pissed. Because you didn't do it before. You have to own that you weren't doing that before. And you have to say, I understand. You don't have to apologize. I understand this change sucks. But this is business, I got to do it. If you have friends, if you have friends or family members who walk all over you, you know, and you start to like, stand up for yourself. They're gonna feel upset about that. They might even feel betrayed that you've changed. Yeah, how dare you? How dare you. Iliza Shlesinger will say on her podcast, you guys, I love her podcast if you know Iliza, I want her on the pod, like I didn't ask her because she just had a baby. But like, yes, I do. Because I mean, what a be it till you see it woman, but she is saying, she always says we have to be comfortable making people as uncomfortable as they have made us.

Brad Crowell 36:01  

Right. 

Lesley Logan 36:02  

And so. 

Brad Crowell 36:04  

That's fucking hard to do.

Lesley Logan 36:08  

She says that too. She's like, I know I tell you to do it doesn't mean I do it. But it's so here's the thing. Like, if you are feeling like people are overstepping boundaries that you haven't enforced, they're making you uncomfortable. And so you're going to enforce them which will make them feel uncomfortable. But you they've been making you feel uncomfortable, you have to be comfortable making them feel as uncomfortable as they make you. And another person I'm gonna quote is Lori Harder, which is like, we can't take away other people's rock bottom. So we cannot take away the lessons people need to learn. And sometimes it sucks to be the lesson someone has to learn. But that you are allowed to have boundaries that allow you to do this life better because I always say this, this is me quoting me. You are the only person who can do what you do the way that you do it. And if you burn out, if you are lost, if you feel stuck, the world loses your amazingness. And to have people like to have to be as amazing as I am. There are boundaries in place, y'all. There are and it's not always perfect. It's not always easy, and sometimes it offends people in ways that I didn't intend. Sometimes I have to go oh, shit, I didn't fucking think that would happen. Thank you for letting me know. Here's how it was intended. Here is how, like let's talk about it. 

Brad Crowell 37:30  

I'm gonna, I'm gonna quote me. Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 37:33  

Yeah. So anyways, I'm Lesley Logan. 

Brad Crowell 37:36  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 37:37  

Clearly we're gonna have Dr. Debi Silber back. Thanks, team for already asking her. Thank you for joining us today. How are you going to use these tips in your life we want to know. We want to know. Share this with a friend who needs it. Share this with a friend who's constantly feeling betrayed that you just want to give a little shake, shake to and little tough love to. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 37:58  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 38:00  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 38:28  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 38:43  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 38:48  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 38:52  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 38:59  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 39:03  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

In this insightful episode, Debi Silber, PhD and founder of the PBT Institute, shares her expertise on overcoming the profound effects of betrayal. Drawing from personal experiences and her groundbreaking research, Silber unveils the stages of Post Betrayal Transformation, offering hope and actionable strategies for healing. Discover the connections between betrayal, health, and personal growth, and learn how to reconstruct a stronger, more resilient self after trust is shattered.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The psychological differences between betrayal and other traumas.
• Key discoveries from Dr. Debi Silber's studies on betrayal.
• The PBT Institute's approach to facilitating stages of overcoming betrayal.
• Strategies for strengthening personal boundaries to prevent future betrayals.
• The importance of addressing betrayal at its root for true healing.

Episode References/Links:

• The PBT Institute
• Debi Silber TikTok  
• Debi Silber Facebook 
• Debi Silber X.com
• Debi Silber Linkedin
• Debi Silber Instagram
• Debi Silber YouTube

Guest Bio:

Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again, and is a 2-time #1 International bestselling author of: The Unshakable Woman AND From Hardened to Healed. Her podcast: From Betrayal to Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal made 3 groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, TEDx (twice) and more, she’s an award-winning speaker and coach dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence, and happiness they want most.

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Episode Transcript:

Debi Silber 0:00  

We actually discovered that there's this collection of symptoms, physical, mental and emotional, so common to betrayal, it's now known as post betrayal syndrome. And it what's so interesting is we've had I don't know easily 95,000 plus people take our post betrayal syndrome quiz on our site, to see to what extent they're struggling. We've all been taught time heals all wounds. I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true.

Lesley Logan 0:27  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 1:09  

Okay, I got some hot topic and this is gonna feel a little juicy but maybe not at all, actually. But, when I discovered today's guest and what they talk about, I was like, oh, yeah, we have not talked about this not in a high-level way. We've definitely had guests come on, who have shared how they're betrayed in their life, and then how they've made it to where they are today just inspire you to be it till you see it. But we've actually never had a like expert on the topic of betrayal. And I really enjoyed it. I feel like I just went to a whole study class on betrayal. I feel like I'm really aware of it. And I already have three people I want to share this episode. It's not even ready yet. I just I'm like literally finished recording it. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to send this to this person, I have to send this to this person. And so my hope is, is that today's episode, betrayal not only educates you. And maybe what you're going through what's keeping you from being until you see it is an old betrayal. And that can really suck to admit to, you know, like to, to think that like 20 years ago, something happened to you and you haven't yet healed from that. And I just to make sure you know that that's okay. You're not the only one. You're not the first person. You're not the last person. But hopefully with today's guest, Dr. Debi Silber, we can start to heal. And we can all go from a place of being betrayed and wanting to take over our lives to actually making it make our lives right where they can be. And so this episode goes through a lot of statistics, a lot of information as symptoms you might be feeling in your life that could all be from a betrayal in your life and also the ways you can get out of it. So I'm really excited for this episode. I think it's gonna be really awesome. And again, I do think it's one of those ones you're gonna share with your friends right now because I'm about to send this information to mine. So have an amazing day and I cannot wait to hear your takeaways. And here's Dr. Debi Silber. 

Lesley Logan 3:09  

All right, Be It babe. I'm really excited for today's topic. Actually, I don't think we've even discussed this topic on the podcast and it is 100% aligned, aligned with us being until we see it. So we have Dr. Debi Silber, here. She is an amazing person who has truly forged her own path and is helping people on the topic of betrayal. So Dr. Debi Silber, will you please introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?

Debi Silber 3:33  

Sure, looking forward to this conversation. So I am the founder and CEO of the PBT Post Betrayal Transformation Institute, I mean, clearly you don't study something like betrayal unless you have to. So I'm in business over 30 years - health, mindset, personal development, and then I had a really painful betrayal from my family thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that. And then it happened again, a few years later, this time it was my husband, that was the deal breaker got him out of the house, looked at the two experiences thinking well, what's similar to these two, of course, me, but what else? And I realized, you know, boundaries, were always getting crossed, never took my lead seriously. And I am one of those people that believes if nothing changes, nothing changes. So here it was four kids, six dogs, a thriving business and I said, you know, a book wasn't gonna get me out of this jam, I needed a whole Ph.D. in it. So I did I enrolled in a Ph.D. program in transpersonal psychology, the psychology of transformation and human potential. Because I was changing so much I didn't quite understand it. He was too, wasn't ready to look at that. And then it was time to do a study. So I studied betrayal. What holds us back what helps us heal and what happens to us physically, mentally and emotionally when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceive? That study led to three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my health, my family, my work, my life.

Lesley Logan 4:51  

Okay, I mean, crazy amazing. No, not that I would ever wish betrayal on anybody but like, thank goodness, we're able to take your betrayal and make it what it is because I, if you start to think about the different things that could happen to you that can really prevent you from living the life you want to live and betrayal is this one thing where you can see people in your life or maybe someone listening right now, like that is the thing that's keeping them from showing up in the world. Because the last time they did it, they got betrayed or whatever. So I just think that like, this is an amazing topic, can we just like, go down to the 101 of what betrayal is just in case people are like, I've never been betrayed before, my life is fine.

Debi Silber 5:33  

Sure. Yeah and then maybe it is. Well, I define it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. So the way it works is the more we trust, and the more we depend on that person, the deeper the betrayal. So for example, a child who is totally dependent on their parent, and the parent does something awful. That's going to have a different impact than let's say, your best friend sharing your secret, you're co-worker taking credit for your idea. Still a betrayal, different level of cleanup. 

Lesley Logan 6:00  

Yeah, yeah. So you know. Yeah, I mean, that's a really interesting way of putting it like the stronger the bond, the deeper the betrayal. Okay, so then you start to go through and try to figure out what works to heal from betrayal. Obviously, there's some things that people can do that are better than others, like, what is the process of like? Is it first just recognizing that you've been betrayed? Is it going within? Is it you screaming and yelling at the other person?

Debi Silber 6:27  

Yes, yes, yes. You know, it's all of those depending on where you're at, the first thing is, you know, you have to know where you know what betrayal does, and that's where that's where the discoveries really came in. So I'm happy to share what they are, because that'll give such context to what we're talking about. So at first I was studying and like, I had a feeling betrayal was a different type of trauma, then, you know, death of a loved one disease, natural disaster, like I had been through death of a loved one. And I've been through disease, and I was like, You know what? Betrayal feels different. I didn't want to assume that it was the same for everyone in my study, so I asked them, if you've been through other types of trauma, traumas, does betrayal feel different for you unanimously? This one, oh, my gosh, it's so different. And here's why. Because it feels so intentional. We take it so personally. So the entire self gets shattered and has to be rebuilt. rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthiness, trust, like they're all demolished and have to be rebuilt. Like for example, if you lose someone you love, you grieve, you're sad, you mourn the loss, life will never be the same. But you don't question the relationship. You don't question the trust, you don't question your sanity, betrayal, has you questioning all of it. So that type of healing needed its own name, which is now called post betrayal transformation, that complete and total rebuild of your life and yourself after an experience with betrayal. So that betrayal is a different type of trauma, that was the first discovery. The second one was, we actually discovered that there's this collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayal, it's now known as post betrayal syndrome. And it what's so interesting is we've had, I don't know, easily 95,000 plus people take our post betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent they're struggling. We've all been taught time heals all wounds. I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true. There's a question on the quiz that says is there anything else you'd like to share? And people write things like, you know, my betrayal happened 35 years ago, I'm unwilling to trust. My betrayal happened, you know, 10 years ago feels like it happened yesterday. My betrayal happened 15 years years ago, I feel gutted. So we know you cannot count on time. Or you can't even count on a new relationship to heal betrayal. Healing needs to be deliberate and intentional. And, you know, I'm happy to share some of those stats from the quiz if that would serve you.

Debi Silber 6:33  

Yeah, I am like, fascinated. Because you, we've all seen it, like we've all had that family member who like something happened to them. And they were never, they were never the same again. And it can be so easy, like, oh my gosh, like they could just have like, gotten over it. Like they should just get over it. And part of me is like maybe like, for some reason, my brain is going like betrayal. At some point, you might even think that you betrayed yourself. Like, it's almost like, it's like you could reverse the betrayal that you did it to you. Because I trusted them. Oh, I I didn't listen to that red flag that I've had, like, you start to like, take it on as you did it to you.

Debi Silber 9:35  

And everything you're saying about the stuckness, I'm going to talk about that in the third discovery. But yeah, I mean, these symptoms are so classic for post betrayal syndrome, and here's the thing, we associate it because let's say the betrayal happened years ago, you know, we're like, well, clearly it's not from that. Oh, but yes, it is. And but we think because it was so long ago, it's got to be from aging. It's got to just be from daily stress. No, it's not. It's from an unhealed betrayal. So. 

Lesley Logan 10:01  

Let's go to the next one. I love this. Yeah. 

Debi Silber 10:03  

Yeah. So do you want me to read the stats? 

Lesley Logan 10:06  

Yeah, let's read it. 

Debi Silber 10:07  

So, out of 95,000 plus people, men, women just about every country's represented, 78% constantly revisit their experience, 81% feel a loss of personal power, 80% are hypervigilant, I mean that's exhausting, 94% deal with painful triggers. These are the most common physical symptoms: 71% have low energy, 68% have sleep issues, 63% have extreme fatigue, your adrenals have tanked, 47% of weight changes. So in the beginning, maybe you can hold food down, later on you're an emotional eater, you're using food for comfort, 45% have a digestive issue and that could be anything Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis, constipation, diarrhea, bloating, anything. The most common mental symptoms: 78% are overwhelmed, 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief, 68% can't focus, 64% are in shock, 62% can't concentrate. So imagine you can't concentrate, you have a gut issue, you're exhausted. You still have to feed your kids. You still have to work.

Lesley Logan 11:16  

Oh, and all this is compounding. So like, and what's crazy to me is like, it's the majority, of all this is like a majority. So it's not like, some people have betrayal experiences and some people experience, it's like, well, they're all pretty much experiencing these things. And it's just, that is, all of that is exhausting. And you got to show up and then you have these expectations on yourself, and you can't meet them. So that's another spiral.

Debi Silber 11:40  

Oh, yeah, you're so right. And that's not even the emotional issues. So emotionally, 88% experienced extreme sadness, 83% are very angry and you just bounce back and forth between those two emotions all day long it's debilitating, 82% feel hurt, 80% have anxiety, 79% are stressed. Just a few more. Here's why I wrote the book Trust Again, 84% have an inability to trust, 67% I hope that landed, that's huge, 67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again, 82% find it hard to move forward, 90% want to move forward but they don't know how.

Lesley Logan 12:22  

Yeah, like, it's like this. There's, it's not like they don't want their life back. But they don't know the next steps. Because moving on, everything we've ever been told, just get over it, you'll meet someone else or like, it's that hurt people hurt people. So they were just hurting. Like, it's none of that stuff is really helpful for you to build trust again. And also. And the thing about trust, which I'm sure you talked about in your book, and we can go into that is like you like to build trust, you have to trust like you actually have to be vulnerable in the beginning of a relationship. So that trust is built, but people want trust to be there before they're vulnerable once they've gone through something like that. And so, is that kind of why you, is that what you talk about in the book Trust Again, is that like, one of the things?

Debi Silber 13:07  

It is what, it definitely is one of the things and just to wrap up the post betrayal syndrome stats, think about it, you didn't hear me say one thing that said, you know, 20% 30%, these numbers are super high. They're also not necessarily from a recent betrayal. So this could be from that parent who did something awful when you were a kid, this could be from the girlfriend or boyfriend who broke your heart in high school. So think about this, that person may not know care, remember, they may not even be alive. And here we are decades later with these symptoms, because we haven't healed it from way back then. That's the trick. That's the crime. The good news is you can heal from all of it, which was the third discovery.

Lesley Logan 13:47  

Yeah. So okay. I do want to know how we can heal from it.

Debi Silber 13:50  

Yeah, and then and then I'll circle back to if you want, how to know, you know, when you said about, you know, being willing to trust and unwilling and, and putting the big wall up and all those things maybe I can (inaudible). So the third discovery, this, to me was the most exciting. And what was discovered was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime and so many people do, if we're going to fully heal, and by fully heal, I mean, symptoms of post betrayal syndrome that I just shared to that completely rebuilt place of you're whole, healed, complete of post betrayal transformation. To get from one to the next, we're going to move through five proven predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally and emotionally. At every one of those stages. And we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next. Healing is entirely predictable. Happy to go through the stages if you want. 

Lesley Logan 14:50  

Yeah, I do. I love this. I had no idea it could be so predictable. So I want to hear. 

Debi Silber 14:55  

And that's the thing. I mean, there's a roadmap now for it. And so it's all mapped out in Trust Again, it's all we do within the PBT Institute. It's where all of our coaches are certified in, moving people through the five stages, but I'll share them briefly here. So, stage one, if, you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. What I saw with everybody, me too, was a heavy lean on the physical and the mental thinking and doing and kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual, feeling and being. Well, if there's a table with only two legs, it's easy for that table to topple over. That's us. Stage two, shock, trauma, D Day, discovery day, the scariest of all of the stages. And this is the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview. Right here, you got the news, you've ignited the stress response, you are now headed for every single stress-related symptom, illness, condition disease. Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just learned. This makes no sense. And your worldview has just been shattered. Your worldview is your mental model, the rules that govern us that prevent chaos, don't go there, trust this person, this is how life works. And in one earth-shattering moment or series of moments. Every rule you've known and you've held to be real and true, is no longer the bottom has truly bottomed out from you. And the new bottom hasn't been formed yet. I remember a study participant saying you know what it feels like. It felt like, it felt like every negative emotion you can imagine, getting punched in the stomach and losing a child and a crowd all at the same time. It's awful. Think about it. 

Lesley Logan 16:30  

Like you're searching, you're searching and searching, you're adrenaline's going to find something. And you just been like crippled at the same time. So you can't even do it. Yeah, that is so (inaudible).

Debi Silber 16:51  

Yeah, it's visceral. So but think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do, you'd grab hold of anything or anyone you could to stay safe and stay alive. And that stage three, survival instincts emerge. It's the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can help me get out of my way, how do I survive this experience? Where do I go? Who can I trust? How do I feed my kids? Here's the trap, though. Stage three, by far hands down is the most common place we get stuck. You know, so many people in this stage and I will explain it you will see. This is the place we get stuck and here's why. Once we've figured out how to survive our experience, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where we just came from, we think it's good. And be like, okay, I got this. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go. We park here, we plant roots here we're not supposed to. But we don't know that. And four things have, a transformation doesn't even begin (inaudible) work. But we don't know anything about that. So we plant roots here. And these four things happen. The first thing is, we start getting all these small self-benefits from being here. We get our story. We like our story. We get to be right, we like being right, you know, we get a target for anger, we get someone to blame. We don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again. Can I trust you? Should I trust you? Forget it, I'm not trusting anybody. So we plant deeper roots. Again, we're not supposed to but we don't know. And now because you know that you know we're here longer than we should be. We start thinking things like well, you know, maybe you're not that great. Maybe you deserved it. Maybe this maybe that. So we plant deeper roots. And now because these are the thoughts we're thinking, well this is the energy we're putting out. Like energy attracts like energy. So now we start calling situations, circumstances and relationships towards us to confirm yep, this is exactly where you belong. 

Lesley Logan 18:49  

Yeah, it's like cognitive bias whatever yeah, right it's a whole like you're just I think this, I see this, it's proved me correct.

Debi Silber 18:58  

And your mind will find you as much confirming evidence as you want to see and then you also the misery loves company crowd comes along now to. Here's also where you find that support group that like in an awful club where it's like this happened to me oh, you think that's bad? This happened to me? And now you found your people. Yeah, so your (inaudible) to grow because you don't want to outgrow your people. The longer you're here the harder it gets to leave because this becomes your identity. It gets worse but I'll get you out. Because you feel so bad, but you don't know there's anywhere else to go you resign yourself right here you're like this stinks but like I have to get through my day. You have to, I have to go to work, I have to be with my kids. So right here is where you start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy whatever it is to numb avoid and distract yourself. So think about it. You do it for a day, a week, month now to happen a year, 10 years, 20 years. I can seriously see someone 20 years later and say you know that emotional eating you're doing or that drinking you're doing, do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And they would look at me like I'm crazy. (Inaudible) 20 years ago, all they did was put themselves in stage three, and stay there. Does that make sense? 

Lesley Logan 20:10  

Yeah. Oh, it totally does. And I think like, it's so interesting because the the world would have you think, oh, well, if you're emotionally eating, then you should just eat fewer calories and like, go deal with your emotions. But it's like, it's not even. It's not a, it's not a conscious awareness that those two go together. And also, you just try to mask that, like, oh, I'll just eat less. It sets you up for failure, you're going to screw up, because that's just human just gonna happen. And so then you're even more, you're stuck, because you're like, I'm not even.

Debi Silber 20:43  

Right. And that's why it's so common to stay there. And you know, it's interesting, because Trust Again maps out the five stages, but that's why I wrote (inaudible) hard to heal them, like you've been through the worst of it already. What in the world are you doing staying stuck in stage three, from harmed to healed is just for stage three, because that's where most people live at stake for life. And you and if you remind me, I'll get back to I want to get people out of stage three. But if you're me, like how do you know if you're in stage three? I'll tell you. Anyway, if you are willing, willingness is a huge word right here. If you are willing to let go of the small self-benefits, grieve, mourn the loss, bunch of things you need to do, you move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge, I can't undo what happened. But I control what I do with it. Just in that decision, you're turning down the stress response, you're not healing just yet. But at least you just stop the massive damage you've been creating in stages two and stage three. Stage four feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever moved to a new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, all your stuff's not there. It's not cozy yet. But you're like, okay, okay, we've got this, stage four feels like that. But think about it, if you were to move, you don't bring everything you know, you don't take those things that don't represent who you want to be when you're in your new space. And what I found was, there's this one spot in moving from stage three to stage four. If your friends weren't there for you, you don't take them with you. You've outgrown them. And it's so common, people say to me all the time, I've had these friends 10, 20 years is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation and if they don't rise, you don't bring them, very common. 

Lesley Logan 22:30  

That and that's probably the hardest part. I'm sure in your work, you see people who have a hard time letting go of those friends. I've had them for so much of my life. And it's like, if but if it's true, if they're not rising up with you, if they're not, if they're not willing to stop telling the story as well, if they're not willing to stop being stuck. It's not that you're being a dick, not taking them with you. It's like actually part of you becoming the person here. So you've always wanted to be. If you loved being in stage three you would stay there, but you're not loving it.

Debi Silber 23:02  

That's it. And here's the thing, do you know how often I'll see somebody sabotaging their growth, because they don't want to outgrow their betrayer or they don't want to outgrow the friends they need in that stuck place. So they'll find themselves constantly sabotaging their success, so that they stay with the familiar known, the only benefit is that it's familiar. That's the only thing. But because it's familiar, they will you know, it's not worth healing and rebuilding themselves because of the known familiar but what's waiting for you in Stage Four and Stage Five is mind-blowing. So let me get to stage five, and then I'll tell you what we see. So stage five, once you've settled into this new mental space, you've made it cozy, you've made it home, you move into the fifth most beautiful stage and this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body starts to heal. Self-love, self-care, eating well exercise, you just couldn't do that before you you know, you don't have the bandwidth. Your mind is healing, you're making new rules, you're making new boundaries, you know, based on the road you just traveled and you have a new worldview based on everything, you see so clearly and so differently now. And the four legs of the table in the beginning it was all about the physical and the mental by this point, were solidly grounded. Because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five. 

Lesley Logan 24:24  

Yeah, this is really cool. So because I, I feel like you know, the whole reason this podcast exists is that people think that they have to fake it till they make it and like I'm not about that because like I think that like acting as if you're the person that you want to be allows you to make decisions like that person would. And so when I was, what I was attracted to this topic so much is that like, I see so many people with all the tools they have all of them they actually have the goals, they have the things and they keep self-sabotaging or staying stuck or playing small or replaying a story. Well, last time I tried to do something this happened to me, and so, I love that you found these five, and also all these things that like, I think so many people are walking around from betrayal symptoms, not just like, you know, like depression is a symptom of betrayal. It's not that you know, so I feel like we're going around trying to heal symptoms, and not actually the cause of the problem. Is that what your studies all found? 

Debi Silber 25:21  

It is 100%. Because think about it, like, for example, 45% of everybody betrayed has a gun issue, you could go to the best good doctor on the planet, I'm friends with many of them, right? But here's the thing, that the amazing protocols they recommend will only take you so far, if there's an unhealed betrayal at the root of it. Unless and until you heal that, that's the issue. Or let's say, you know, you've in the beginning you you couldn't hold food down, and later on, you become an emotional eater, then you try to lose weight. Well, and you try all these weight loss things, that's not the issue or you can't sleep. So you start taking something for sleep, or your adrenals have tanked and you're taking something like some sort of adrenal support, they're all wonderful, right? But at the root of it is that unhealed betrayal. But when you move out of stage three into stage four, and five, what we see constantly within the PBT Institute, that's where you are ready for a new level of relationship with someone entirely new or with a completely revamped person of the person who hurt you. That's when we see new levels of health. That's where if I tell you how many businesses get birthed in stages four and five, the PBT Institute, that was a stage five thing, you don't have access to all of that newness when you're stuck in your trauma. You get your story, but that's really just about all you're getting. 

Lesley Logan 26:43  

Yeah. Yeah. So hurt me wonders. Like, do you think there's some people who have particularly like, locked the betrayal so much that they're, they're almost in denial that their problems are from betrayal like it? Some of these things might have happened when they were children? Some of these things happen when they're adults. How do you go about like understanding what betrayal you need to heal from if you're not aware? Like, I mean, people might think like Lesley, you're crazy. No, like, if my partner had cheated on me, that's a very obvious betrayal. But there might be some betrayals that like happened to you that were kind of can you're conditioned to so you don't even call it that you think it was your fault. So I guess I'm just wondering if, if there's like some ways to figure out if betrayal is what you're going through?

Debi Silber 27:27  

100%. So take a look at your health, your work, your relationships will see it in these three areas all the time. For example, in your relationships, I'll see an unhealed betrayal in one of two ways. The first is a repeat betrayal. The face has changed, but it's the same thing. You keep going from boss to boss to boss, friend to friend to friend, partner to partner and partner, like what the heck is it me? Yes, it is, not in that it's your fault. In that it's your opportunity, there is a gigantic lesson waiting to be learned. You are lovable, worthy and deserving. You need better boundaries in place, whatever that lesson is, until and unless you get that you're gonna have opportunities in the form of people to teach you. Like, for example, in my case, I had a painful betrayal from my family. And then I was like, all right, let me just heal from this. I think I'm over it, I'm good. And then my husband, but look at what I did here for me, I never did anything for myself, I wasn't even on my own like to-do list, you know, for me to enroll in a Ph. D. program. I didn't know who was gonna pay for it. I didn't know how I was going to manage the time. If I tell you how many people said I was full-blown crazy, right? But in making such a radical decision for me, it completely changed my life. And just to close the loop on my story, so everybody knows. Healing and rebuilding is always a choice whether you rebuild yourself and move on and that's what I did with my family wasn't an option to rebuild with them. Or if the situation lends itself if you're willing, if you want to you rebuild something from the ground up new as two entirely different people. That's what I do with my husband. So not long ago as two totally different people, we married each other again. 

Debi Silber 29:10  

Oh my God. 

Debi Silber 29:12  

New house, new dress, and our four kids is our bridal party. Betrayal will show you who someone truly is. It also has the opportunity to wake them up to who they temporarily became not that you need to do anything with that. But yeah, what most people do though is they're so afraid of the complete and utter death and destruction of the old as the only way you birth the new.

Lesley Logan 29:37  

This is, I'm happy to hear that because it sounds like you both had to go through some things for that to actually come back and like refine each other in massive ways. And I'm sure it wasn't easy. I I like that you break down to like, health, you know, that like relationships and I think the third one was work or was that family? 

Debi Silber 29:58  

Yeah, I'd love to show and explain how it shows up in different areas? So in relationships, it's going to show up in one of those two ways, in repeat betrayal, that is an unhealed betrayal lesson has not been learned. The second way is the big wall goes up, like nope, been there done that no one's getting near me again. And we think that's coming from a place of strength. And it's not, it's coming from fear. Our heart was so hurt that we are unwilling to risk that level of vulnerability, because we just can't fathom the thought of that level of pain again. So we would rather keep everyone at bay, than take the risk of that pain. That's an ideal betrayal. We see it in health, people go to the most well-meaning, very good doctors, coaches, healers, therapists to manage a stress-related symptom illness, condition, disease, at the root of it, like we said before, is that unhealed betrayal. And we see it at work too, where let's say you deserve that raise or promotion. But you don't have the confidence to ask because your confidence was shattered in the betrayal. Or you want to be a team player. You want to be a collaborative partner, joint venture partner, but the person you trusted, the most proved untrustworthy. How do you trust that boss, that co-worker that partner, you see? It's just everywhere, everywhere? 

Lesley Logan 31:18  

Yeah, I was just listening to a podcast the other day, and this girl had wrote in a question like, I want to ask for a raise. My raise last time was like 3%. And I really, I feel like I should be making 10 or 15,000 more than I'm making, I feel that people are, but I like had some mistakes in my past jobs. And all I was thinking is like, not at this job. You've been fine at this job. You can ask for the rate and they're like telling her like, you should be looking at what they're paying you way too little for this, you should be looking at these things. And all I could think is like, this poor person is carrying on some weight on their shoulder as if it's like, I mean, the way she said it was as if she'd like killed someone her past job. And it was, I doubt it.

Debi Silber 31:57  

Yeah. And you know, when you say that, and the first thing that comes to my mind is worthiness and confidence shattered. That's a betrayal. I'm sure, I'm sure. I wish I could speak to her because I'm sure that's what's at the root. 

Lesley Logan 32:09  

Yeah, I feel like okay, you guys, you guys study all these people. But I feel like almost you don't go through life without like, no one gets flipped through life being unscathed. I feel like betrayal can happen. So some of it so intentionally, I guess maybe it's unintentional as well. Even the people who are cheating on their spouses, like (inaudible) they intentionally I'm betraying this person, but like, it feels so personal like we talked about the beginning, that I feel like it can happen in a lot of different instances just by being part of the world. So I guess I'm wondering, like, is there a way to prevent betrayal?

Debi Silber 32:42  

You know, integrity? Yeah, here's and that's the thing. It's, it's such a part of our of our lives. And, you know, you wonder, it's like, Why in the world, would this be such a part of our lives, I kind of look at it as it gives you an opportunity to completely catapult yourself to a level of you, you never even thought possible, you know what it's like, it's like, you know, my kids used to love Legos, right? So imagine there's a Lego structure sitting in a corner of the living room, it's that good. It's just there. It's been built, right? And then one day, it's just completely knocked down. Rebuilding yourself, and transforming after betrayal is like looking at that Lego structure and say, you know what, I don't want to use that piece, I don't want to build it that way. I'm gonna use this, I'm gonna do it like that. And you are recreating everything. And betrayal lends itself to creating an entirely new version of you, where you take all the parts of you that you love, and you leave behind everything that no longer serves, like if the old you settled, if the old you tolerated, you know, stuff that this version of you doesn't want to if the old you didn't speak up for yourself, whatever it was, you have so many opportunities after betrayal, because everything's been leveled to decide who it is you want to be. And this isn't just having to do with another person. This is with yourself. Like, for example, after my betrayal, I realized, you know, I was so hard on myself, I was always such a, like, I was criticizing myself and so critical. And you know what? I don't want to do that anymore. So I decided that after betrayal, I used to always do things that I would call so stupid and so dumb, like, I'd get lost wherever I go. It's just part of what I do. They just get lost. And I decided, You know what, I'm just not going to call myself those names. So now when I do those same things, it's simply adorable.

Lesley Logan 34:39  

Yes, what a kind of way to talk to yourself.

Debi Silber 34:42  

I'll get lost just as I always do. And now I'm like, you're just so adorable. You see what I mean? So it's like you get to rebuild whatever you want. That's the opportunity but you never access that stuff. When you're stuck. Because you're like I have my story. It's like think about it. I had very powerful story all the people that I trusted all betrayed me. But look at the story now, you know, the books, the TEDx talks, the Institute, thousands of people, to the certified coaches, like, it's a way better story.

Lesley Logan 35:12  

Yeah. Okay, one more question. Um, now that you've gone through this, and like you've helped all these people who recover and get to stage five, do you find that people who've gone through stage five, if betrayal happens to them, again, they handle it? They don't have to go through all the stages again, or like, do we have to go, we have to, like, we feel all the feelings. 

Debi Silber 35:34  

It's two things. It's number one, it doesn't, it doesn't happen that way, again, because your BS meter is so strong and so sharpened, that you don't attract those types of people in your lives. If you do, there's another lesson needing to be learned. But the good news is you have the tools to get right, you get through it so much more quickly. And like the emotional trajectory of this is like this, and you you breeze through it so much faster. It's like, first, you are so profoundly sad. You're like, oh, my gosh, how could they do this to me? You know, you're heartbroken. And then it moves towards anger, where you like, how do you do that to me, like, what, and that's actually healing. And then you get to this place of almost like pity, like, really, that's like, that's what you have to do. That's actually a really, really great place. Because it's almost as if you were in the picture. And now you're out of the picture, looking at it, seeing it for what it is and realizing it's not you. So that's huge. And then you move, you keep going with the healing, you move towards compassion, when you're in compassion, you're good, that's when you're healed. That doesn't mean you excuse it, you're setting yourself up for it again, none of that, it just means you have completely healed and use the situation to create the most healed healthy, whole, complete version of you.

Lesley Logan 36:54  

Oh, I love that I that. There's something like very promising and hopeful about that because it, it means you don't have to repeat all of the stuckness and the level three, and you can move through it faster. And I think like you are right, the opportunities are so key. Every person listen, I feel like some of the, you mentioned earlier, some of the best things that have ever been invented have come through people healing from something, you know, I just interviewed a guest who lost her husband to cancer. And she wrote because of how she noticed how people treated her during his cancer. And then after she read a book on like, here's how you help people, and you're going through something, and like, I feel like, you know, we can, it can be so easy. Why is this happening to me, but also not that you'd ever want, like, wish for bad things to happen to you. But my goodness, like, the things that do come from the shit are helping so many more people. And you get to have this incredible journey around you and learn from these lessons. And it doesn't have to be your story. 

Debi Silber 38:02  

Right? Oh, you're so right. And it's so true. Think about it, you know, the most the best health experts. I know, they've been in the worst of health situations and they created their own concoction and healed from it. Someone who's you know, so great at helping you with, let's say finances, maybe they were broken, they came up with their whole recipe. So it's I feel like we have an obligation if we've been through something and we've sort of created a path. How do you not share that like when the five stages showed up? I'm like, How do I keep this myself? You know, so I put the five stages in a program and it blew up and then everyone wants to work with me and lead. Well, how do I do that? So I created our certification program because I wanted to get these five stages out to everybody. And then that blew up and I was like, Wait a second. I did the research. I know what works. I know what doesn't work. What would happen if I put everything that has proven to work under one roof. And that's the PBT Institute. 

Lesley Logan 38:55  

So amazing. You're doing incredible things. Oh my gosh, Debi, this is I feel like so enlightened. I feel like I've got tools. I hope our listeners do too. I could keep talking to you. We'll have to definitely probably revisit this topic again with you soon. But we're gonna take a brief break and find out people can work with you. 

Lesley Logan 39:12  

Now. Okay, where do you hang out? Where's the best place people get your books, people can work with you if they've gone through betrayal? 

Debi Silber 39:20  

Yeah, everything can be found in the PBT as in Post Betrayal Transformation, the PBTinstitute.com

Lesley Logan 39:26  

Perfect. Okay, you've given us some amazing tools and just so much information that I think will help everybody be it till they see it even in the midst of a betrayal. But before I let you go, bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Debi Silber 39:42  

You know, I would say if you're stuck in stage three, these are four questions I invite you to write down that's my way of saying write these down. Ready? First one, am I numbing, avoiding distracting? If so hell call yourself on it? Do you walk into the refrigerator, the kitchen, open the fridge and not the least bit hungry like what's going on? Do you go into a room put a TV on because you're desperately trying to drown out the sound of your own thoughts? Call yourself on it. Number two, what am I trying not to see? Call yourself on it. Am I trying not to see that health issue that needs my attention? That relationship issue? The job I hate? Third question, what's life that will look like in five to 10 years if I keep this going the same way you're dealing with it or not dealing with it, play it out. How does it look? The fourth question, what can life look like in five to 10 years if I change now? Not saying it's easy. Transformation begins when you tell yourself the truth.

Lesley Logan 39:46  

Yeah, and also like you can't, you can't be it till you see it if you don't have some ideas of where you want to like where you want to go to some sort of dream of something that can be on the other side of amazing. I invite you guys to write those questions down and go through it myself. A.k.a., do it. Oh, my gosh, Debi, thank you so much for being here. Y'all, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Please make sure you share this episode with a friend who you know who is going through some betrayal. You know, that person is that person stuck in stage three that you're like, oh my gosh, I wish I could just pull them out. Just send them this episode. You know, you don't have to tell them why you could just send it to them. And please tag Dr. Debi Silber, the Be It Pod and let us know what your takeaways are. We love hearing what these are because it does allow us to see the impact that we're making in your life. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 41:25  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 41:52  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 42:07  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 42:12  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 42:17  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 42:24  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 42:27  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Dive into an episode dedicated to the bold steps taken by the listeners, and the personal achievements that mark their collective journey towards growth. Sonia's venture into the world of publishing and Ally's innovative teaching experiment stand as testaments to the power of embracing new challenges. Learn about Lesley’s decision to prioritize a weekend of exploration and the significance of acknowledging every step forward.  

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How unexpected opportunities can lead to big achievements.
• The benefits of adapting and expanding your professional offerings.
• The importance of scheduling time for relaxation and exploration.
• The affirmation of being held and supported in your journey.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions Sonia Ahmed, Agency member
• Mentions, Roxy, a Writing Coach
• Mentions Ali, Agency member

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday.

Brad Crowell 0:01  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Get ready for some wins. Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:47  

Hello, Happy Fuck Yeah Friday. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thanks for listening to these little short nuggets of inspo. It's so fun to make these for you. And I love sharing your wins. So send them in just like we love answering your questions. So how this podcast goes on today's episode is I share your wins, I share one of mine. And we have a little affirmation at the end. And it's different than a Tuesday episode where we have an interview we learned something and different than a Thursday episode where Brad and I share what we learned. And you get a little insight of like what life is like around here but it's actually also a lot of fun because it's kind of not too long (inaudible) listen version of the pod and that allows you to know if you want to listen to that one. And also like updates on what we're doing. So okay, let's quickly get into your wins. You guys it's so important to celebrate wins and they do not need to be completely done. In fact, you'll hear that with my win. 

Lesley Logan 1:37  

So Sonia from Agency and eLevate wrote I heard back from a publication and they said I could write a piece for them. Thanks Roxy for suggesting it in the first place. This is not something I ever would have thought of doing. I have till end of January to get it to them. I'm so excited. So Roxy is one of our writing coaches inside of Agency and she inspires so many people to get their amazing thoughts on paper and to put it out into the world so people can learn from them. So thank you, Roxy. And way to go, Sonia. I know that you've got this paper out already. So congratulations. I just love it. I love that you shared what you are doing. And then you allowed someone to go, hey, you can do this. And you did, you receive that and you stepped up and gave yourself another muscle. So way to go. And then Ali wrote FYF change is happening, I've had my busiest week consistently for three weeks now. Three new clients have signed up for one-to-one intros for this week, I bumped into an old one-to-one client, who may come back and try some of my private this time. Today, I taught my first four-to-one. So four people, one teacher as a trial which fried my brain a little but I think it went well and hopefully made a good impression. Less is most definitely more. Ali, congratulations on trying something new and testing the waters there. And also for celebrating all these new people coming in and what you've got so many people wouldn't celebrate it till they all became clients. And I love that you're celebrating like that these things are happening, the work that you were putting out there is coming back to you. So thank you for sharing that. 

Lesley Logan 3:03  

All right, well, one of my wins. Okay, so I just mentioned like, the reason I love to do this show this episode is to celebrate things, even when it's not the win isn't completely perfect or done yet. So while you're listening to this, Brad and I are taking a weekend away. It was not easy to make this decision especially because basically in April we have work on almost every single weekend. So that kind of like made me go oh my God, maybe we shouldn't do it, maybe shouldn't take this weekend off. And I was like no, once a quarter, I want us going, I want us driving somewhere. I want us taking a weekend off and driving somewhere packing the dogs up and going and doing something different that we haven't done before. We live so close to so many places. So as you're listening to this, we are on the road, probably I think it's either going to be Death Valley, or something in the Utah areas whether we're going California Death Valley or going into Utah. So at that time, I'm recording this win, which is a little bit close to the deadline. We haven't planned it yet. But we don't need to because it's two hours away. So we are just going to we're trying to keep it from being perfect. Oh, I have to have everything for the weekend planned. No. If you did, you wouldn't take mini trips, because you would, it would be too much effort to take the mini trip away. So we just block the dates. And we know that we are going to go on a two-hour drive somewhere and stay for the weekend and explore. And so that's what we're doing. So I'm so excited that that was one of my goals for this year is once a quarter for Q1, Q2 and Q3. Brad and I took a weekend off and just went and did something fun. And so we're doing that. So thank you to my team who helped me block the time off and thanks to Brad for, you know, wanting to do this little thing and also thank you to you for listening, because it really helps hold me accountable to just doing the things I said I was going to do, even though I'm someone who doesn't really need to have accountability partners in that, like knowing that I told people I was going to take a weekend off means I better do that. By the way I take every Saturday and Sunday off, but this is like a Friday, Saturday Sunday away. So just to clarify what that means. Okay, so celebrate wins, even if you're like in the middle of doing them. 

Lesley Logan 5:10  

All right affirmation time. I am held and supported by those who love me. I am held and supported by those who love me. You are held and supported by those who love you. Yes, you are. So way to go. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. Thank you for being you. Thank you for celebrating your wins with us. Share them to the podcast so we can shout you out. You'll hear them on a day that you'll probably need to be reminded that you had that amazing win once and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 5:45  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 6:13  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 6:28  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 6:33  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 6:37  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 6:44  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 6:47  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

In this episode, Lesley and Brad unpack the critical role of communication in feeling appreciated and connecting deeply with your partner, inspired by Kelli Adame's relationship takeaways. They discuss the nuances of expressing needs and desires, the importance of honoring each other's contributions, and how to navigate the complexities of masculine and feminine energies for a stronger, more connected relationship.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The impact of narcissistic upbringing on your romantic choices.
• The inherent differences in how men and women approach relationships.
• That appreciation is both given and received in relationships.
• The importance of respecting masculine energy in partnerships.
• The role of self-care in enhancing personal joy and satisfaction.

Episode References/Links:

• Studio Growth Accelerator Program
• OPC Summer Camp
• Cambodia February 2025 Early Bird
• 4-Week Pilates Challenge
• Diary Of A CEO Podcast Episode
• How Not to Let Having Kids Ruin Your Sex Life by Dr. Karen Gurney

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

There is a divineness just to be in your feminine and it allows you A. to ditch the perfection and ditch the control and ditch always being responsible for everyone's feelings all the fucking time like we gotta let it go. 

Lesley Logan 0:14  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:56  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the appreciative convo I have with Kelly Adame in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one, you should go back and listen to that one. And by the way, while you're at it, listen to our first one and then come back and join us. Today is the official day of March 28th 2024. And it's National Triglycerides Day. 

Brad Crowell 1:16  

It is.

Lesley Logan 1:17  

I don't think those are good. 

Brad Crowell 1:19  

No, they're not. 

Lesley Logan 1:20  

Okay. So just like all things in life require balance, so does our nutritional intake. Too much of anything, even if they're vitamins can be harmful. This is why, this is the reason why high triglyceride levels

Brad Crowell 1:32  

It's not that triglycerides are bad, high triglycerides. 

Lesley Logan 1:35  

High triglycerides, which are important lipid compounds that help with providing us with energy can be extremely detrimental while in many cases high triglycerides levels can be treated using medications. Recent studies have shown that in older people, namely 50 and above, that's not older, 50 is not old, triglyceride levels rise because of hormonal changes. If you're not sure what this even means speak with your doctor. If you have high triglycerides there are foods you can eat that will help you lower your levels. Whey protein products, fatty fish, whole grains, quinoa, avocado, coconut oil, garlic and cruciferous vegetables. 

Brad Crowell 2:09  

Nice. 

Lesley Logan 2:10  

Thank you, have all been shown to significantly reduce triglyceride levels. Ultimately, talk to your doctor. You know what, if you don't trust your doctor, talk to a different doctor, like if you have a doctor who won't test all of your levels, including your hormones get a different one advocate for yourself. You know that doctor I didn't like, everyone knows, we talked about it in the podcast, we talked about how much I don't like her, my insurance company just let me know that she's no longer in network for me, so I have to find a new one. I'm like, well, I was gonna find a new one anyway, so thanks.

Brad Crowell 2:35  

So if you're wondering what a cruciferous vegetables is.

Lesley Logan 2:38  

Is it like cauliflower? 

Brad Crowell 2:39  

Yeah, cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, kale, bok choy, arugula, brussel sprouts, collard greens. 

Lesley Logan 2:45  

Some of those will make your pee smell. And that's how you'll know you're doing a good job.

Brad Crowell 2:50  

That's really what you're looking for y'all. Smelly pee. 

Lesley Logan 2:52  

Hey, come to the Be It Pod for random facts on your triglyceride levels. But also, I just reject 50 being older people. I'm over that. No, because I'm 44. I'm 40 what do you mean 42? That's bullshit. 

Brad Crowell 3:08  

That's a BS. 

Lesley Logan 3:10  

Yeah. Anyways. 

Brad Crowell 3:12  

Well, I just figured, you know, like, or heard about, you know, nutritional health and all the things but I didn't know there was an entire day dedicated to the awareness of high triglyceride levels.

Lesley Logan 3:25  

Well, because we live in a place where we have to, like make a holiday. Like okay, did you know the other day I was listening to a podcast and it was National Equal Pay Day it's like why the fuck is there a holiday? To remind? 

Brad Crowell 3:39  

It's probably an awareness day. 

Lesley Logan 3:40  

It's an awareness, it's still considered a holiday, right? If you go to the you don't look up awareness days, you look up holidays, right? So it's on the holidays calendar, and companies should just pay people equally for the same amount of work. Period.

Brad Crowell 3:56  

I agree. 

Lesley Logan 3:57  

Doesn't need a fucking holiday. Anyways, just get a little irritated on this.

Brad Crowell 4:03  

Those triglycerides took you down a bad road there.

Lesley Logan 4:08  

I love cruciferous fruits I eat vegetables. I eat them all the time. Okay, so you guys. This is this in like three or four days Brad is doing the Accelerator which is a studio growth accelerator program. So if you're a Pilates teacher, studio owner, you can attend this amazing two-ish-hour webinar. 

Brad Crowell 4:27  

It'll be April 4th. 

Lesley Logan 4:27  

April 4th to be exact. And here's the thing that's so cool about it. He's going to teach you stuff and then you're gonna work on that stuff. What? 

Brad Crowell 4:29  

Yeah. Teach and work on it. 

Lesley Logan 4:34  

So it's not, so it's not like we talked about this (inaudible). It's not like you're just gonna get tons of information with no integration because you'll get constipated. Yes, you can have cruciferous vegetables, but you can also integrate the things you're learning. Also coming up in the first weekend of June, it's summer camp. Oh, I didn't give the link for that. It's the Studio Growth Accelerator. If you are wanting to sign up for that, you should. Agency members. You got Brad, you know don't need to do this. 

Brad Crowell 5:01  

You don't need to do this. 

Lesley Logan 5:02  

You've already done this. Go to prfit.biz/accelerator. And you'd be surprised that accelerator's two Cs and one L. You know, I thought it had two Ls and it doesn't. So prfit.biz/accelerator to snag your spot it's like last chance so you got a few days. But then summer camp is the first few days of June like specifically the first Saturday and Sunday of June.

Brad Crowell 5:27  

Yeah. This is going to be a big deal, y'all.

Brad Crowell 5:29  

You guys

Brad Crowell 5:30  

This is like a huge, huge event. 

Lesley Logan 5:31  

So everyone loves summer camp last year

Brad Crowell 5:33  

And you don't want to miss it. 

Lesley Logan 5:34  

We wanted to make this summer camp the biggest thing ever. And like we also know that there's not a ton of in-person Pilates events for people who are nerds of Pilates. So this is not just for teachers. This is for people who practice Pilates, too. And so the OPC teachers and I are doing workshops and workouts, then we're bringing in some guest teachers as well. You can literally spend entire day with me moving your body and how like learn from so many amazing people will have a pre and postnatal workshop in there as well. So if you can also buy day pass, I mean, there's just so many awesome things. If you are on the waitlist, you are going to get one of the best early bird prices now I say one of it's because OPC members will get the best. So the best thing you can do is be an OPC number. But if you're not ready to commit to us yet, totally get it. Go to opc.me/workshops plural, and you can get on the waitlist and you will hear when the doors open for summer camp. And you can get the early bird special on all the goodness that's happening and you'll have lifetime access. So if you're like oh my gosh, guys, I'm busy. Guess what? You should buy it while it's on early bird because full price is a lot of money. And then you can have access to the replays. Also Cambodia. Oh my God. You guys. At the time we're recording this we only have one spot left in October.

Brad Crowell 6:46  

I just marked it and sold that.

Lesley Logan 6:47  

No way. Did we sell it? 

Brad Crowell 6:49  

Well maybe.

Lesley Logan 6:51  

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Brad. Anyways, I'm gonna say it because until it's sold out sold out. We have one spot left now according, this is March 28th. I'm recording earlier. So it might be sold out by then. But anyway, crowsnestretreats.com to see if there's one spot left in October and if not, you'll see the early bird rates are up, are already up for February 2025. What?

Brad Crowell 7:10  

Oh, yeah. 

Lesley Logan 7:12  

For the first time since 2020 we will be back in Q1 of a year in Cambodia, which is a really unique time because the sunrises are a different color that I, here's the thing, I love how green everything is in October, but I prefer the sunrises in February. I know I'm weird, but like, hey, it's (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 7:32  

Just little drier. It's not quite as humid.

Lesley Logan 7:34  

Well, I like it (inaudible). It's always gonna be humid, it's Cambodia, but, it's Asia. But the sunrises are really cool. And it's not super close to the spring equinox. But it's like also close enough that you can kind of trick your camera into looking like the sun is right over the center. Because you know, you don't have to Photoshop you can just kind of angle it. So you want to go to crowsnestretreats.com to snag the early bird rates while they're still early bird rate. You don't want to pay full price for that. And then don't forget, if you're looking for a four-week Pilates challenge you can go to, you could always go (inaudible) you can always go to opc.me/challenge and hop into our mat or reformer challenge anytime. So it's a four week on the reformer or a four week on the mat. We start with 10 minutes. And these are accountability programs, it's really what they are and they're so fun and you get tips on how to like create a Pilates habit, and I made these for you. So use that. OPC.me/challenge. All right, Brad. 

Brad Crowell 7:34  

That's not a guilt trip or anything but you should go do them anyway.

Lesley Logan 8:35  

Go do them. Just go do them.

Brad Crowell 8:38  

I love it. Yes, we do have an audience question because I know that's what you're about to ask me. Risa E, recently asked me on a call, hey, what is a client avatar? 

Lesley Logan 8:48  

Okay. I mean, if we think back to Hilary Hartley, she doesn't like the word avatar because it sounds like a fake thing. And but here's the deal. We still call client avatars because it's shorter, because we were joking around with her like ideal real person client avatar. But your ideal client avatar, Brad will be more specific about this but the way you want to think about this is if you could carbon copy a person to do 

Brad Crowell 9:17  

Your favorite 

Lesley Logan 9:18  

Your favorite person that you ever, you're just like are so excited to (inaudible) them on your schedule or you have a shop, assuming your shop, didn't carbon copy this person that would be your avatar, your muse another way to think of that, your muse, your inspiration for what you do. But also it helps you understand how to talk to someone, who you're talking to. What are their problem? What is the problem they have? No one, people don't really need luxury items. So you have to be a solution to a problem they know they have. And so if you don't know who your avatar is your ideal real person client avatar. You are talking to everyone which means you're talking to no one. Even when we are talking to you on this podcast. I don't see your faces, but I am picturing some of the listeners who I know listen, hi guys, every single time the episode drops shout out to let's go, Heather, Amanda, hi mom. Oh my gosh, Laura. There's so many of you I don't want to leave anyone out but at the same like, I'm picturing you guys I know when I'm interviewing someone, I'm thinking about you, because I actually know the questions you would ask that person and so that is dictates how the episodes go and who I bring on the pod and things like that. And so what you need to think about is a real person that you want to speak to all of the time. And I know that niching down scares the hell out of you. Because oh my god, what if they reject you? Well, it just means your messaging is off. It doesn't mean it's not personal. And so that's what a client avatar is. (Inaudible) on that, Brad? 

Brad Crowell 10:43  

Yeah, totally. I'm going to be going into this, you know, more in depth on the Accelerator on April 4th. So if you really want to get nerdy with me, go to prfit.biz/accelerator and join me for that workshop. It's a two-hour workshop. It's gonna be great. We're gonna dig into that. And also, how do you, you know, how do you actually bring more clients in your studio? And then how do you empower your clients to bring their friends and family into the studio? So if you are trying to jumpstart your studio's growth, or any of that kind of stuff, join me for that accelerator program. And yeah, as far as an ICA or an ideal client avatar, the idea is that somebody that you know you're talking to and so it allows you to visualize who they actually are. When you're connecting with them you're actually speaking their language in a way that will allow them to go ho, this girl is for me, this product is for me. 

Brad Crowell 11:43  

Did you say ho? Ho!

Brad Crowell 11:44  

I was going to say hey yo and then I don't know I caught myself saying ho.

Lesley Logan 11:51  

(Inaudible) Christopher Walken singing Poker Face.

Brad Crowell 11:55  

P-p-p-poker Face. Oh that's the best YouTube video. 

Lesley Logan 11:58  

Look it up, I promise you my ICA, listen to this, will love Christopher Walken.

Brad Crowell 12:04  

Singing Poker Face. Yeah. Google it. Alright, so anyway, yes, that is an ICA. Great question. Thanks, Risa. Love it.

Lesley Logan 12:14  

You guys can ask us any question you want. Someone just asked our entire team what pants I was wearing when I did a video and my team had to like track me down to go which pink shorts are these? Which I love. Okay, so Alright, let's talk about Kelli Adame. 

Brad Crowell 12:31  

Kelli Adame, a seasoned relationship expert with a background in psychotherapy and coaching excels in guiding individuals and couples through the complexities of modern love and relationships. With a profound understanding of the balance between masculine and feminine energies, she offers nuanced guidance in communication, dating and building fulfilling relationships and marriages.

Lesley Logan 12:53  

Yeah, I wanted to have her back on because it was just so many. There's so many different things we could talk about when it comes to these and like the first time we had her on we had so many people who loved it. And I have to share this because so many people are like, oh my God there is this one person. Yeah, there was this one person who was like, I was into this until she said we have to be passive to be in our feminine energy. And it's like, she didn't say like, you just take what you get like, like she had no way to said like, just accept what's coming. It was very much like no, like be be willing to receive, you know? 

Brad Crowell 13:26  

Yeah, I don't even remember if, I don't remember passive, but I remember the idea of receiving. 

Lesley Logan 13:32  

Well, and I do think that that word came out in the interview when I was doing it because I listened to the whole thing. And before y'all get like a little triggered by it well, word, listen to the before and after take it in context. She explained what she, like she explained what she meant by passive. So when I was in the interview, listening to her and taking that in, I didn't take it as like, we should just like, be passive and just like, take what we could get it was very much an action of receiving and like we did a retreat recently, and one of my girls was wanting to give me a comment, I want you to receive this and I said, oh, I am, I'm gonna sit here, you're gonna tell me and I'm just gonna say thank you. And I'm not actually going to give you a compliment back. I'm just going to sit here in the receiving of that. So. So I think like. 

Brad Crowell 14:16  

Also, I think that we have this weird preconceived notion that, you know, one person always demanding or getting and the other person is always receiving. And that is not what the context of that was. Nor is that reality, there's always a give and take in every relationship. So there are moments where you're receiving there are moments where I'm receiving and that is, hopefully, that's that's actually a healthy relationship.

Lesley Logan 14:39  

No 100% Because like, I also have never taken her explanation of like massive feminine energies and that there's this I won't say her name because I don't want to give her any air. But there's this one woman who like in her household, her husband makes all the decisions all the time. And I was like, no. That's a hard no. 

Brad Crowell 15:00  

Yeah. That is called an unhealthy relationship. 

Lesley Logan 15:03  

Because I can be in my feminine and also, when it's needed make decisions for this relationship for myself, I don't need permission. So anyways, I just wanted to highlight that because, again, one, first of all, there's always been someone who doesn't get something out of something. And also, ladies, we, there is a diviness to be in your feminine and it allows you a. to ditch the perfection and ditch the control and ditch always be responsible for everyone's feelings all the fucking time. Like, we gotta let it go. And if you are wanting to have a healthy relationship, it is going to be like, I make sure and I'm not always good at this, but I love to make sure that Brad feels needed. I can do a lot of shit around the house by myself. I mean, I did almost burn it down. But I can do a lot by myself. But also, it's like super good to, like, let you shine and do some cool, like, there's amazing things you've done with these shelves. And I'm like, yeah, actually really great. Love that. So anyways, I just had to like, get that out there. So I just love her and I love what she is talking about and doing. And so she said she talked, we talked about narcissistic parents, and that will often cause if you have a narcissistic parent, you will often be drawn to a narcissist in your relationships. And so just you know, keep that in mind my loves. We've had narcissistic parents. I'll never forget, my mom told us it was but like, I'll never forget the time she texts me she's like Etsy or Pinterest sent me this, such as this book called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers, it's probably a good thing, you're not having a child because it's probably passed out like a hereditary trait. And so the narcissism can stop with you. So anyways, you can be drawn to a narcissistic partner. And she said, sometimes the work is more just spending time tending to yourself, it's actually a loving decision. And so again, like and you can be in your feminine energy, and just take care of you like just say no to things, take a hot bath, enjoy amazing music, like set a space for yourself. There's nothing selfish about that, that is actually like being in your feminine, really awesome. And she also talked about like, it doesn't matter where you are, or whatever you're doing, you can learn to fully embody your feminine energy in that way, or in different ways. And then she also said, if you, when you into when you're integrated in that feminine energy, you're going to attract something different. So if you find you keep attracting, this is why single ladies, I'm sure we have a few good men listening. But on Brad's actually doing All the Single Ladies right now he's dancing.

Lesley Logan 17:46  

If you're wanting to attract different things in your life, you have to actually have a different energy because we actually what we put out is what we are attracting things, right. So you actually are in control of that. And I just I was just listening to a happiness talk on Diary of a CEO and the guy was like, he's a scientist at this. And he says, no one likes when I say this, he's like, but you are actually in control of your happiness. You can change how you're feeling by the words you're using. And so I loved it, because it made me think of this interview. It's like, when we integrate our feminine energy, when we choose to be in that you are going to attract something different you are in control of how you attract things. So it's not passive.

Brad Crowell 18:25  

Right. Right? Yeah. So this was a really interesting conversation, for me to be a bystander in, on, at listening to, I remember being really intrigued during the first episode. And that happened for me again, this time, too, because just really, first off, she's very learned, right? And well educated about this kind of stuff, but also to the way she describes it makes me laugh. And also made me aware of things that may be happening in my life or in our relationship. That is like, oh, cool. Okay. I never even thought about it in that context before. She said that women are wired for relationships. She also said that men are wired for non-relationships or polygamy. And I thought that was interesting. 

Lesley Logan 19:22  

You never heard that before. 

Lesley Logan 19:23  

No. Oh, it's like a whole thing. 

Brad Crowell 19:26  

Okay. Well, she said, she said, the, when it comes to why would a man who's wired for you know polygamy choose monogamy is because they like to win. And, you know, the hunters, right? They're trying to win. And what Kelli said is that when she's working with men, most often they actually don't feel appreciated in a relationship. And so why would they decide to stay in the relationship if they're not having, they're not feeling like they're winning. Right? I appreciated your comment about the shelves. It also made me laugh because I feel like

Lesley Logan 20:16  

I would just hire someone. 

Brad Crowell 20:18  

Yeah, I don't think you would ever fucking do that. So letting me do that is pretty fun. 

Lesley Logan 20:22  

Yeah, no, I would just hire someone. We had this conversation last night, you were telling me to do something like, or just hire the person to fix this.

Brad Crowell 20:29  

So what she talked about was criticizing or, you know, she said, the men that she works with often say, it doesn't matter what I do, I never feel like it's enough. I always feel like, you know, I'm being nitpicked or whatever. And I can do no, right, it's never enough. And so, you know, eventually, that builds up resentment and all those kinds of things. You know, so she, she then asked you, like, why would a man give up options for all the women to be in a relationship with a woman where he doesn't feel appreciated? I'm pretty sure that's not what she said. She actually said, why would I give up all the other vaginas? Just to have one? If I don't feel appreciated? 

Lesley Logan 21:07  

Is that what she said and our team changed it. I love you guys. I do or call that oh, okay. I guess let's just talk about like vaginas? That's right. Yes.

Brad Crowell 21:21  

Which I was like, wow, okay, my jaw hit the floor. And she said because a man likes to win and if he can win with you, that is, that can be worth becoming monogamous and being excited to stay in a relationship in a committed relationship and all that kind of stuff. And so, there, you know, there's, it's kind of like a mission. It's built into humans into men, in this way that I've never really thought about it like this before, I didn't actually know that.

Lesley Logan 21:58  

It's interesting, because like, 

Brad Crowell 21:59  

I don't feel like it is, I don't feel like it is, there is a bit of an ego, especially when we first started dating when I was like, like, I got you off the market, you know, kind of a thing, especially because 

Lesley Logan 22:10  

(Inaudible) I told you don't take me off the market, if you're not gonna marry me. 

Brad Crowell 22:13  

Well, it wasn't even just that I also knew that, you know, we were both also, like, seeing other people to try to figure out who we wanted to spend time with. Right? And so there definitely was a bit of pride that I felt as we decided to, you know, commit to each other, for sure, you know, and, but that was like, 10 years ago, you know, almost at this point. So, that.

Lesley Logan 22:41  

Really close to 10 years this summer. 

Brad Crowell 22:43  

Yeah, kind of crazy. I haven't really thought about that in a really long time, to be honest. 

Lesley Logan 22:48  

Well, I think the other thing is, like we were we were listening to (inaudible) talking about, like, six human needs. Right. And so we have an interesting thing when it's like certainty to me, right? And also, we need uncertainty. And so like, I also think, you know, I also feel for the woman who's also saying this to the man or make the man feel this way, because she probably also feels underappreciated. So but like, for to me, and I don't think that Kelli and I got into this, but like, if another certainly women who probably do this always, but for me, if I am starting to, if I find myself starting to nitpick or think about you in a negative way, it's because I am feeling I'm doing a lot. And I am feeling underappreciated as well. And so what happens is, when one person feels underappreciated, they start taking on the other person and the other person feels underappreciated, but like, literally no one's communicating about feeling underappreciated. And so I think that it's really important, because like, what I don't want is women to be like, yeah, he's not doing anything, probably. But also like, and also, there are other ways to say like, it means a lot to me when x, y, and z happens, and when this isn't happening, it makes it really hard for me to show up in this relationship in a in a positive way. 

Brad Crowell 24:07  

Yeah, well, I mean, yes, that for sure. But also to what Kelli said, is, basically make sure let him know how he can win with you. Right? And, you know, what does that actually mean? And honestly, that ultimately comes down to communication. And, you know, I think that when you know what will win someone over, I'm just trying not to use the word win, but when you know how you can succeed in a relationship, you're more likely to do that.

Lesley Logan 24:37  

Well, it's also like, let's just say it as a job when you actually know how you're going to be appreciated at work, how are you gonna be recognized, how you're going to have affirmation at your job, you do it, right? If you're at a job, and I don't want to think of a relationship as a job, but like who okay she keeps, she, sorry guys are lovely Gaia is taking out a light, when you are at a job and you don't know how to win at your job or feel succeeded or have affirmation or feel like you're doing things, right. You feel lost, you feel confused, you feel frustrated, you get upset. It's the same thing. So not that your relationship is a job, but it's a, I think of our relationships 

Lesley Logan 24:37  

It's an easy comparison. I mean, we go through it at the workplace, in the workplace, right? So, you know, yeah. I get that. 

Lesley Logan 25:23  

Yeah. So I think like, for all any of you out there, like, I don't think relationships are ever easy. And I think it's actually always a give and take. And that's why I also love having Kelli back a couple of times to explain, like, both people in a relationship have both masculine and feminine. And it's important to know when you're in either of those, and then to communicate how you feel. And it is not easy. Like, it's, it's, it's never going to be easy. But if you really actually care about the person, it's actually worth the communication, it's worth the time. It's, it's worth understanding and hearing things from that person's perspective and figuring out how you can, you can do that.

Brad Crowell 26:01  

And here's how, like, here's the other side of it, is that when he knows how he can win with you, he will do his best to win with you, which is a win for you. Right? So, you know, I think ultimately, communication and clarity and understanding how, you know, you can, can set each other up to, you know, both be getting what you want in a relationship. That's, you know, so that's, that's like my biggest takeaway with it. 

Brad Crowell 26:30  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo with Kelli Adame? She said, to honor the masculine and look at where you are being critical, I thought this was again, I thought, this is really interesting. Look at where you are trying to teach or preach or change your man. And I find it hilarious that I'm the one saying this in this conversation right now, but. 

Lesley Logan 26:57  

I'm not taking it as a note. So it's okay. 

Brad Crowell 26:58  

Yeah. The, you know, what you discussed, which I'm just going to refer back to your conversation is that, obviously, it can be, it can turn into a mothering relationship, because one of the things you talked about was, you know, a, you know, badass high performing woman who ends up with, you know, a Peter Pan style, like, childlike man, who is just being taken care of you, we're talking about a specific relationship where three years in, she was like, I'm done, you know, and, and that was like, you know, annoying and complicated. And it was because, you know, the role was always the woman was driving things, being in the masculine, masculine energy, running things, providing all the things and, and then it never actually allowed for there to be the give and take. And to me, it doesn't sound like that. Man was trying to step up anyway.

Lesley Logan 28:00  

Yeah. Well, also like, and, you know, it depends on how the relationship started. Because also, like, if it started off with him being a Peter Pan and her always taking care of him. It's not like, magically one day he's gonna read her mind and step up, like, you know what I mean, like, I think that's another thing. 

Brad Crowell 28:15  

That's true. 

Lesley Logan 28:16  

I was listening to when we were on our way to Mexico I was listening to this podcast from various CEO with this sexpert, who she was talking about one of her books is like, it's like, how to stay married after having children, or how to have sex after having children, something like that. Anyways, she was explaining how, in a lot of relationships, when the child, a child has entered. First of all, there's so many things that happen to a female's body that make it complicated to have sex, you have to wait several weeks, after for things to heal, maybe longer depending on how things are going. And then she is tired. Because the baby wakes up all the time. And if the partner in her life isn't also stepping up in other ways to help out and she finds herself, making food for everybody and clean up after everybody and doing and scheduling things for everybody. Then she has the children and an adult child. And once she starts to mother, the husband and I'm not saying that that's her fault. Once that happens. Yep, it's no longer sexy, right? Because it'd be weird to want to have sex with your kid. And so (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 29:29  

Yeah, that's exactly right. And you talked about that too, with Kelli. And what she actually said which was, which I found really interesting was you said typically, the person who makes the first move in the relationship is the one that's taking on the masculine energy in the relationship.

Lesley Logan 29:45  

Yeah, you did that for us. I made sure of it.

Brad Crowell 29:51  

Anyway, glad I could step into that masculine role. 

Lesley Logan 29:54  

You're so hot. Thank you so much.

Brad Crowell 29:57  

What was your biggest takeaway? 

Lesley Logan 29:58  

Try to do an hour a day of checking in around just feeding your feel good time. And one of the other ways to describe this actually is Feel Good Friday. She takes half a day on Fridays, and she scheduled things that helps her feel good. And I think this is actually really if you are if you have stuck around on the feminine conversations and you still feel a little lost, go get your nails done. Go get your hair done, go get a massage. Why? When you get your nails done, you do feel pretty, but also you are receiving, someone's taking care of you when you get your hair done. Oh my God, I love to get my hair blown out. I love it because I will never do it for myself. And of course, I feel so pretty. I felt even with no makeup. I'm like, wow, I can be in a Vidal Sassoon commercial, I love this. And you feel more and more like taken care of and you're so busy taking care of others. You get a massage someone is like pouring into you. When you do Feel Good Fridays, it actually is going to be so much easier for you to step into your feminine because you're actually practicing the art of receiving. So I really, really love that. And then she said above all else like progress, not perfection which you know, we're all about here in the Be It Pod.

Brad Crowell 30:34  

I love it. 

Lesley Logan 30:47  

I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 31:10  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 31:11  

Thank you so much for listening to us, for being part of our conversations, for sending your questions in, for sharing the pod. I really do love when you guys just take screenshot of the pod and then tag me like it makes my day because I'm like, oh my God, they love this episode enough to share it. Like that's so cool. Also lets me know what episodes you're enjoying. So, continue to do that and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 31:32  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 31:34  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 32:02  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 32:17  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 32:22  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 32:26  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 32:33  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 32:36  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Lesley brings you a must-hear interview with Kelli Adame, a seasoned psychotherapist and relationship coach. In this episode, they delve into authentic masculinity and feminine energy. This discussion is packed with valuable lessons on overcoming common relationship hurdles through awareness—providing listeners with tools to foster healthier— more balanced connections. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Understanding health masculinity and its crucial role in relationships.
• The power of feminine energy for enhanced intimacy and connection. 
• Cultivating empathy in changing perspectives towards men
• Family dynamics and their influence on shaping limiting beliefs. 
• Honoring men and appreciating their role and contributions. 

Episode References/Links:

• Love Bravely Academy
• Love Bravely Academy on TikTok
• Kelli Adame
• 280. Create More Harmony in Your Relationship with Kelli Adame

Guest Bio:

Relationship Expert // Trained + Educated as Depth Psychotherapist and Relationship Coach. I'm an expert in helping women, men and couples navigate modern love and relationships. I specialize in the understanding and application of balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies, Communication, Dating well and building successful relationships and marriages. I help high-achieving women navigate the journey from single and dating to successfully married. And I help married individuals/couples improve the marriage they have. I equip, educate and encourage my clients to help them achieve their relationship goals. 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Kelli Adame 0:00  

If I could discern that he was a prince that could become a good king great, but if he's a selfish, Peter Pan, that's not good. You feel me? Because Peter Pan is a great playmate. He's a lot of fun. He's so fun, right? They can be so fun, you know, in bed. They can be so fun in playing in the world that they do not make good lifelong partners. You're signing up for a lot of pain. 

Lesley Logan 0:26  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 1:08  

Hi, how are you, Be it babe? Okay. This is one of those special moments where we get to have one of our guests back because my gosh, she's just a thought leader and I love her grace and her support for all of us as a woman listening to this so we can really step into our hugely amazing power like us. If you haven't listened to the first episode with Kelly Adame, you should go listen to that one. Now you can listen to this one and go listen that one but it's trust me, it's going to be these back-to-back episodes are going to be really, really special for you. And today's topic of what Kelli Adame is so knowledgeable at which is masculine feminine energies in relationships. We're actually talking about how to spot like healthy, masculine energy, which I think is so important. And also like some of the downfalls as women is what we do, that doesn't cultivate that not to put blame on ourselves, because we're not I'm not at all, she's not at all, none of that's happening. But some of the things that we may have been raised to do that are not helping us in that area. And then also some things that we tend to do thinking that someday our prince is going to come. And so whether you are in a relationship, single, somewhere in between totally celibate and swearing them off forever, like there's so much in this episode, I think is really important because we all do have men and women in our lives. And we can really start to see where we can do some self-work on ourselves to continue to attract incredible humans in our lives. And also some permission to give ourselves to just stop doing things. Ladies, you don't have to do things all the time, we can just be in the feeling of it. So I really hope that this episode with Kelli gives you lots of permission. She's got some great Be It Action Items on both episodes. And I already want her back like I already want her back. So anyways, she is awesome. Here is Kelli Adame. 

Lesley Logan 3:04  

All right, Be It Babe, we've got a guest back already. I'm so excited. I'm so excited because I just got to re-listen to her first episode. And by the time this is out, it's already aired. And my husband Brad, listen to it two times. That's how much he fell in love with you. So Kelli Adame, you are back. You are the queen of all things when it comes to masculine and feminine energies and like really showing up in our relationships. And there's so much to talk about when we finished that episode, we wanted to talk we're like, well, we didn't even touch on this. So before we talk about what we're talking about can you tell everyone more about who you are in case it's the first time they're listening to your voice? 

Kelli Adame 3:40  

Yes. So my name is Kelli Adame and I'm trained and educated as a depth psychotherapist and a relationship coach to train sort of entrepreneur. So I've been in private practice full-time for 10 years, which has been amazing. And now I'm really pivoting to be more of an educational vehicle for people. Because I think a lot of the reason people struggle is because they don't know what they don't know. So I'm super excited to just be sharing more of what I know, that's been transformational in my life and in the life of just hundreds of my one-on-one clients, men and women. So I love it. This is like my just happy place. And I'm so excited to be talking more good stuff with you. 

Lesley Logan 4:19  

Yeah, I'm really thrilled and it's true. I think, well, y'all have to go listen to the first episode she had on we'll get that on the show notes because it it really was eye-opening for me to understand like, oh, okay, this is, this might be why there's friction in the household because we're both trying to like show up in this way and someone has to receive and someone has to cherish and there's got to be this thing and so, so what I wanted to focus on today was you know, we talked a bit more I felt like about feminine energy on the first episode and we talked a little bit like you mentioned, your husband is like, you know, a very integrated healthy, masculine energy who knows the work. And I was just like, so what is that because also I feel like especially today in politics, there's a lot in the news. There's a lot of talk about, like, toxic masculinity. And I'm like, okay, I think we're all, we can, we don't have to dive into that topic. But like, what if we actually focus on like, what is healthy masculinity? And what does that look like? And that kind of energy? Because that would be nice if you go, ooh, spotted, green light. Let's go. That's the one. 

Kelli Adame 5:20  

Yes, yes. No. 100%. So it's so interesting, because I think listen, I have come to a place in my own journey and in my work, I have such authentic respect for good men. Like, genuinely there's so much to be grateful for about good men in the world. And when I came to understand that and then experienced (inaudible), specifically, because I didn't always date good men just to be real, right? Like, when I really encountered that in a way that I was like, wow, I didn't even know this was a thing. Like I didn't even know I could be loved this way, pursued this way, feel protected, feel cherished, feel chosen, but but feel more of who I am not less of who I am in that dynamic. You know what I mean? So, yeah, so there is a lot of stuff about, you know, unhealthy men. There are a lot of unhealthy wounded men in the world. There are some just, conmen sociopaths, malignant narcissists. And you want to be able to identify those men so that you don't get oxytocin bonded and then taken down? A terrible, terrible rabbit hole of pain, right?

Lesley Logan 6:30  

Yeah, we had (inaudible). Sorry, go ahead. 

Kelli Adame 6:33  

No, no, go ahead. 

Lesley Logan 6:34  

I was gonna say we had someone who, we had Rebecca Zung on recently, about narcissism. And she said this really poignant thing, she said narcissists don't pick up pick you because you're, they think you're weak. They pick you because you've got something that they want to like vampire off of. So like, so for the women, listen, if you're like, oh, my God, I'm the one who keeps picking the narcissist. Like, it's not that you're picking them. They're literally going she's got something I need to suck the life out of. So you have something they want to offer. But I think it's I love that you brought up like, you didn't always date those people. Because I think, especially in your work, people might be like, oh, she like never had a problem. She has no idea. It's like, no, I think we all kissed a fuck ton of frogs. 

Kelli Adame 7:16  

Yeah, yeah. 100% 

Lesley Logan 7:18  

Right? 

Kelli Adame 7:19  

And like, sometimes that's how we learn the hard way. 

Lesley Logan 7:21  

Yeah, like, it would be so nice if we didn't have to, but like, yeah, maybe it's because the fucking princess books told us to kiss a frog and it might be a prince. It's like going is this the one? 

Kelli Adame 7:30  

Well, it's like, if I could if I could discern that he was a prince that could become a good king. Great. But if he's a selfish, Peter Pan, that's not good. You feel me? Because Peter Pan is a great playmate. He's a lot fun. They're so fun, right? They can be so fun, you know, in bed, they can be so fun in playing in the world but they do not make good lifelong partners. You're signing up for a lot of pain and disappointment.

Lesley Logan 7:56  

And I think sometimes we can, I don't know, like, we can fall in love with the possibility of what they can become? 

Kelli Adame 8:04  

Oh yes, our Pygmalion project. I just love you and give you more and show you all my goodness and maybe like, you know, plant some seeds that I've learned in my personal growth and maybe get you into something like then we could just have this amazing relationship, you could just evolve so I could have what I want and I'm helping you don't you see that I'm helping you? 

Lesley Logan 8:23  

Yeah, and I feel like I feel like all it does is help them become who they're gonna be for someone else. I don't think it's always (inaudible).

Kelli Adame 8:30  

And, and, or, and, or you're actually not helping them as much as you think you are. A lot of times, you're feeding the part of themselves that they want to feel good. A man who's not integrated in his authentic masculine energy. He's more of like a selfish little boy. Right? He wants to feel good more than he wants you to feel good. So this is why when we, right? So this is when we talk about feminine energy, I tell them like you have to be authentically connected to what you feel. And you have to be able to cherish your own feelings, so that you can invite a good man to also cherish her feelings. But if you are constantly overgiving, and constantly performing and constantly trying to get a man to choose you or love you or you think that helping him is going to be, you're mothering him, he'll be grateful that you're mothering him because that feels good to him. But that's not going to make him die to his selfishness to love and protect and honor you. 

Kelli Adame 9:29  

Yeah, that's true. And also like, let's just be real. Nobody should actually want to sleep with their mother. So like on a romantic (inaudible).

Kelli Adame 9:41  

Kills the chemistry, right? Kills your chemistyr. Neutralizes your chemistry. Yeah, because it's incestuous. So when you get an (inaudible) stuff around this, right? So, but basically, when women move into like that mothering, overly nurturing, therapeutic, let-me-help-fix-you, that's still a form of masculine energy because it's still giving in an unbalanced way. So like when I want, when I'm, when a woman has small children, she has to move into masculine energy to keep those children alive, you know, while they're under the age of six until they're self-sufficient, which is why she needs a good masculine loving partner who's going to support her and support the whole thing. Does that make sense? Yeah. So it's, you know, it's nuanced. This is why like, to your point, a lot of people, especially right now are talking about masculine-feminine stuff, but they only know like one aspect of it, they don't have it integrated. They don't fully have an integrated understanding of it. And if you don't, you're gonna miss apply it. And it won't work or it'll feel manipulative.

Lesley Logan 10:41  

Can we talk about like, just like, what people think masculine feminine energies are and then like, or what? What's kind of going around as like, what's a healthy version? And like, what's actual, because I feel like what we talked about on the first episode kind of made things more clear. And I'm listening to different podcasts, and I hear these things. And I'm like, that's kind of like, almost like, I don't know, it just doesn't sound right. And then I definitely want to go into like spotting healthy, you know, energies?

Kelli Adame 11:07  

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm happy to talk about it, I think it's the thing is, is that there's other pieces that get integrated in this, but if let's just talk about like what good healthy, masculine integrated energy is. First of all, you have to understand that men go through a different journey than women do, psychologically to evolve, okay? And men really only become integrated healthy men three ways. They're either really well fathered by other good men, it doesn't have to be their biological father, it can be other men, who show them the way of what it means to be a man. That's why when you like, look at like tribal, you know, behavior. It's like, you know, once the boy is 12 years old, he goes out with all the men to hunt, and they take him through all of these different tasks that help him realize that he has what it takes to be a man. And then there's other men bestow on him that he is, does that make sense? And that's a process that men can take other men through. So this is where we get into a lot of the issues we have, because we have fatherless households, we have men who haven't been well fathered, or had father figures in their life. I do a lot that work with men. So I understand that profoundly.

Lesley Logan 12:13  

I mean, right there. I'm just like, well, I mean, several generations of like, not like, you know, I mean, even can just go back to like, World War Two boys were born. Their fathers, if they had them, went off to war, then they came back then they were like, we're looking at generations of like, probably not a lot of modeling that is healthy. So that's a lot of men who didn't have that. And that's, we're expecting something of them. I'm not I'm not trying to get people off the hook. People don't have to send me any DMs. But it is, it does make sense.

Kelli Adame 12:47  

Yes, well, there is cause and effect. And you can never say it's just one thing. But one of the major factors. And when I say to, to women, like there's a level of like, genuine empathy and compassion we can have for men, if they haven't been shown the way about how to be good men, or how to show up in healthy relationship, or how to cherish and love and pursue a woman why would they know how to do it? And you just expect them to know how to do it?

Lesley Logan 13:10  

Yeah. And you're also not saying like, we're, we're gonna we have to teach them that because as we already learned from the Peter Pan thing, that's not gonna work. So like, it's just having empathy is very different than like, let me fix it.

Kelli Adame 13:22  

Yeah, well, and also not just like criticizing the hell out of them. For not being what we think that they should be. Because by the way, we're probably we got our own stuff going on, you know what I mean? But I'm just saying, if you look at those things, it's not like just men are selfish (inaudible) is, there's reasons why men are, you know, have their own struggles. So now, I think everybody gets to take personal, none of us get to decide what we're born into what we get and don't get, but we do at some point, get to decide what we're going to do with it and take personal responsibility, get on a path of growth, healing awareness, and become better human beings. That's a personal choice. So you know, if you're 60 years old, and you're still being a super selfish Peter Pan, like, okay, I accept that, but I'm not enabling it either. You know what I mean? So, but I do think that men deserve the opportunity to be able to learn how to do that. So they're either really well fathered by good men, or they get on some kind of spiritual path that allows them to like, sort of slay their dragons, metaphorically, face their fears, look at those things that they have had to work through and become men through that process.

Lesley Logan 14:35  

Like a here's journey of something, but that's

Kelli Adame 14:37  

Yes, like a hero's journey. A hundred percent. So if a man doesn't get to do that, so there's that way, the other the other way, which is what's really specific to us and the way that I work with women is that the way women really become men is that they fall in love with a really well-integrated, feminine energy woman who requires it of him by the essence that she holds for herself. Oh yeah, so men will rise into king energy if he's in the presence of a queen, who invites that, but it's indirect. It's not direct. 

Lesley Logan 15:10  

Yeah. I love that because it's like full permission ladies to be here. Well-integrated queen self and demand that people rise to you. Yeah, I think that's (inaudible).

Kelli Adame 15:23  

It's not you trying to fix him, change him, telling him what to do. It's about you being integrated in the healthiest, you know, because it's like, whatever you are, it gets reflected back to you. Right? What you believe in where you are? That's your jam. Right? So if we, but it's counterintuitive, because we think, well, if I want that, this is what I need to do. And I'm actually, if you want that, actually, this is what you got to do. It's different than you think it might be.

Lesley Logan 15:47  

I know we talked on the last episode you had on like about Brad and I meeting and like, there was one time he called me late at night, he called and like, look, I thought he was the hottest thing like, of course, I was like, he's calling. It's in the middle of the night. I woke up and he like wanna hang out and I was like, yeah, you should have called earlier. I can't now. But if you call earlier, you know, next time, we can hang out. And he did after that. But of course, it's hard to be going, hh, my God, like, you know, am I gonna see him again? And it was just like, but I like I, you know, I wasn't perfect. And it was just like, okay. I'm not, no, we're not doing that. We did that when we're 22. We don't do that at 31. And it worked out. And he, like when we tell our story of how we met, he said, I call her one time and like, she literally said no. And so I called earlier the next time.

Kelli Adame 16:43  

Go figure. So amazing, right? I mean, it's kind of like behavioral psychology 101, right? It's like, you reward the behavior that you want more of, and you starve and ignore the behavior you want less of. And the thing is, is like, men don't need our help. Can I just respectfully say that? Like, if a man wants something, you'll find a way to make it happen, because he values it, and he wants it, including you. So he doesn't need you to help him, he doesn't need you to kind of be manipulative or position yourself or allow things that you shouldn't or lower your standard that doesn't help him respect him or honor him. And in my experience, men always value something that they've either had to work hard to achieve, or that they perceive has a high value, right? Like, I like going to the Dollar Store like anybody else. Like sometimes, I'm like, spent $10 and got all this cool little stuff, okay, but I don't value that the way I value my BMW. Right? So because I work hard to earn all the money to pay for that car that I enjoy. So I value it at a different level. So the idea is like, I remember reading this one similar analogy, it means a different one but you know, like an Olympic athlete, who wins the gold medal, the gold medal symbolizes and is so valuable to them because of everything that they sacrificed and all that that represents in what they achieved. So it holds a special place for them. But if somebody just gave them a gold medal, like somebody's hand-me-down gold medal, it wouldn't mean anything to them. Does that make sense? So it's the same journey. You want to create enough space for men to decide if they want you and be willing to take the risk and to pursue you but you want to reward them when they do that? Which you did. Right? So he wanted to see you. And you said, even though you wanted to, you loved and valued yourself enough to say no, right? Which by the way, is integrated with feminine energy, integrated, feminine energy gets what she wants by saying no to what she doesn't want. Right? So you did that. And then he learned, okay, if I want something different, I gotta do something different. So I really value this woman. I do want to spend time with her. So what do I need to do differently in order to have access to her? He did it, called you earlier and what happened? He won. He got access to you. That was the reward.

Lesley Logan 19:04  

Yeah, no, you're, it makes sense. I love that because it worked out. You know but like

Kelli Adame 19:13  

He offered it like a good masculine man. 

Lesley Logan 19:15  

Yeah. Yeah. 

Kelli Adame 19:16  

And that honored him. That honored him, too.

Lesley Logan 19:20  

Yeah, I think, and I like the way you said it. Like, it honors both people. And it makes, it helps both people. Like, we enjoy each other's company a lot better. And like, I had a trainer, because I said, oh, he texted me about this thing. And he's like, well, if you want to date him, don't teach him. That's what my trainer said, and I was like, okay, so instead of, like, showing him how to do the thing, because I can't I'm a fitness professional. I said do you want to take a class together which like, you know, doesn't mean I'm now I'm not actually like, we're going to someone else who's teaching it like it's not, you know, I'm not doing anything but it really helps set the tone of like, oh, I don't actually have to teach this person every like, actually have to do that, you know? And like, so it's hard because I think I don't actually I feel like women are almost raised to there's the rules, which seems all the book that every girl who was born in the 1980s, like mother told them about, which is like manipulation central. And so you think like, oh, if I manipulate them, then I get them. And it's like, that's not it. And then, yeah, there's a whole purity culture that makes you feel like you're completely the reason why they fall in. And so I feel like there's a lot of misinformation given to women about how their feminine energy is powerful, and how they can attract a really great person. But also, if you don't know what a healthy masculine energy is, you start to go, oh, this Peter Pan person, I can fix them. And I can do these things or this person's love bombing me, he must be in to me.

Kelli Adame 20:52  

Yes, you don't know how to discern this is what I say to women. I'm like, Look, you don't know what you don't know. So let's talk about what does actually healthy masculinity look like. So healthy, integrated masculine energy in a man towards a woman, like who's interested in you he's going to, he's going to initiate, he's going to pursue, he's going to ask for your number, he's going to text you first, he's going to let you know that he's interested, he's hunting. Right? And you and you do have to have respect for men that there's an enormous amount of risk of rejection that men take. And that, you know, so like, even when I was single, and men, hit on me, or men asked me on dates or whatever, even if I wasn't interested, I was always incredibly respectful and gracious, just because I didn't want that man to not be willing to pursue women in general. I wanted to still reward the courage that it took to do that. And I wanted ultimately to still be pursued by the man that I wanted to be with. Does that make sense? So I think that's just something we should have respect for. But when a man wants to do that, and he takes that risk to hunt, then then if the reward is when you give back to him by saying yes, and giving him access to your time, your attention, your energy, a date, or whatever, so he's going to initiate he's gonna pursue, he's gonna say I want that. Masculine energy says oh, I want that I'm going to go after it. Right? And so it's energy that leads, that initiates, that takes action, that pursues, it's also by nature protective, so it wants to protect women, children in the planet. Right? And that's where it gets that's where there's a level of kind of where they're self-sacrificial in that, but it gives them a sense of purpose and meaning as a man. Does that make sense? Which is I say this to women, too. I wrote about this recently. Like a man needs to see that there's a place for him in your life and indeed, for him in your life. I had a client recently who was in a relationship and they broke up and she was devastated. And he basically said to her, I think we're too much of the same player on the same team. So he was very ambitious and strong and driven and so was she, but it was like, they were like two men running a race together as teammates. And for him, he wanted a queen, but her conditioning and her life, you know, was to pursue, pursue, pursue and be successful. So she thought, like, this is great. We're like, compatible, and he was going no, I want a compliment. I don't want someone who's exactly like me, or does that make sense? 

Lesley Logan 23:18  

Yeah, it does. I'm someone who like was raised to be independent. My father taught me how to make friends (inaudible) at like, fucking four. Yes. Stove on with a little stool, you know, did my thing with my spatula. He, like he royally what he really absolutely wants me to be independent and not, you know, be reliant. However, he also taught me like, these are the things that I get to see in a man who wants to date you and so like, he's like, he will stand on the outside of the sidewalk because you should not get wet. And he will do these things. So there was that modeled for me but because of this, like self-reliant that I was taught, and because I had student loans, and I, like I been paying my bills since I was 15 years old, you know, like I so when, so I definitely was not actually doing the great job of making sure that the partner I was with before which, none of them were right for me. But I also wasn't helping because I wasn't needing them. And so when one time Brad had texted me he's like, hey, I know you're gluten dairy free. I'm at the store. I got these things. Is there anything else you'd like? And I said I could really and I like it was so hard for me, you guys, it took everything I need to do this. I just go yeah, I could. I would really love some sparkling water can you grab that for me, please? Like it was everything in my soul to just ask for sparkling water but I knew from all the stuff that I read. I was like, he needs to feel needed. He needs to feel like he is doing something for me. So what could he do for me right now? We could just do that. And it's still something I have to practice in my adult life because we work together, we live together and like it's so easy. But, you know, like the other day, my client came in the house and she saw, I'm like working on my reformers like, oh, he's also the repairman of the reformer and like he's so many things. He also repaired my computer today, he also did these things like I wouldn't be able to do without him.

Lesley Logan 25:23  

But I think it's hard when you are raised that way we live in a society where we, you know, often have to be because you might be single for a really long time. So there are some things you just have to be able to do on your own, but also be able to let someone feel like they have a place to cherish you and do things for you.

Kelli Adame 25:42  

Yeah, I think what you're hitting on is like so central to a lot of the work that I do and teach and encounter and with my own experience, right? So my mom was a corporate businesswoman. She broke glass ceilings, she did amazing things. I'm always so proud of her for that. And, you know, she wore power suits and chopped off her hair and she was very masculine in her energy. She didn't model that feminine energy for me, right? She modeled like, perform, work, make money, go handle business. And I have a dad that I love, my father. He was a firefighter. And he was tough. He had no sons. I was the oldest daughter. So I'm like that firstborn hero child, overachieving, all that like a lot of women I worked with.

Lesley Logan 26:22  

Hi, totally see you.

Kelli Adame 26:23  

Yeah, like soul sisters, here we go. And my dad was hard on me, he would say because I wanted her to be tough. I wanted her to know that she didn't need a man. And it didn't mean that he didn't want me to ever be with a man. He just didn't want he, in his mind as a parent, he was trying to prepare me for all things. Does that make sense? And so yeah, I became very good at being responsible and self-sufficient and hyper-independent and could achieve all kinds of things. But I ended up feeling lonely and disconnected and struggling with why can't I find a relationship with a good man to make that work and feel loved? And like, am I going to be able to, like get married and have children? And is that like, you know? And that was, I think that's kind of an epidemic of a lot of women that I work with, right? So it's like we're taught. And it depends on your family, if the currency in your family was performance, like the currency of love, was performance. So you get love and praise if you get good grades, and you achieve this and do that, then we that's what we think love is and that's part of what we bring into our relationship with men. Oh, let me perform. Let me show you how great I am. Let me do all these things so that you can see I want you to choose me. But that's not what a man falls in love with.

Lesley Logan 27:33  

Right.

Kelli Adame 27:34  

Does that make sense? 

Lesley Logan 27:35  

Yes, I you are making so much sense. Because if performance and those actions are the masculine energy, and to go back to that couple were the guys like, hey, you're an awesome teammate on my race, but like, I'm not, I don't want to go to bed with you. I don't want to be married to you like this isn't the relationship I'm looking for? It's no wonder that if that's what you were raised with, of course, that's what you're doing at home. And you're thinking what this is what gets me love. This is what gets me attention. And it's like and that 

Kelli Adame 28:04  

And it's so well intended. 

Lesley Logan 28:07  

It's so well-intended. My parents, listen, thanks, guys. (Inaudible)

Kelli Adame 28:11  

Yeah, love my parents. Shut up. They know, we've been through a lot of healing, but I'm just saying. And I remember feeling that way. Like, I'm doing everything I know how to do. And I know, like, I don't understand, like, you know, I always remember just feeling like, am I Is there something wrong with me is there or just do all men suck? Like, it's like, it's this. And of course, it's hard, you get better you struggle with limited beliefs. And usually we all have things we lived through, right? So like, I survived child abuse, you know, sexual abuse very young, so that also really colored, you know, the way that I didn't feel safe with my body. And I didn't really feel safe with men subconsciously. So that was, that was an element of healing I had to do too. So, you know, it's, it's not always just one thing, but I'm saying but that's why it's worth doing this kind of work, you know, and growth to figure it out.

Lesley Logan 29:01  

Yeah, I love it. I love that you brought up it's not just one thing, it's not just some like, just because someone didn't have a father, raising them doesn't mean that they're not going to be integrated. And it doesn't, it doesn't mean or that they have that, that they're going to be set for life. Like it's a culmination of your entire childhood and people praise you and what that is. And it's hard, like it's so hard to be an adult person. And, and to also like to also be in relationship because now you're not just thinking about you, you're thinking about the other person and how that goes. And I think you know, as we're talking about this, I guess I'm, I had a couple of women who are like high achiever women professional clients, and they're like, I can't tell a man what I do for a living or like I had someone else who's like, I can't tell them I have two houses like too soon because it's a turn-off. And I was like, it should not be a turn-off. Like if it's a guy's healthy. I'm like an awesome dude. Like, shouldn't be like wow, I'm like on a date with a woman who's like, owns her own home in LA like, are you fucking kidding? That's a big deal. But is that wrong? Like, is it a turn off when like, like, should a healthy integrated guy be turned off by someone who now is a pretty badass bitch at work? 

Kelli Adame 30:15  

No, no, no. I recently wrote about this too because I think somebody asked me like, are men intimidated by strong women and successful men? I was like, no, I think that's like a myth that women have perpetuated to help give them an understanding about what they're struggling. But the reality is, a man who is healthy and integrated in himself is not going to be threatened by your successes and your brilliance and your talents. He's going to be like, she's amazing. But it's not purely why he's going to fall in love with you. He's gonna fall. So it's not that a man cares that you're successful in your masculine energy, he just wants to know that you can be soft with him. He just wants access to your feminine heart and soul and emotions. And like he just wants to know you can soften and move into that feminine energy with him. You can kick ass and take names all day long and build a seven-figure business and have three houses. Great. But are you able to honor the masculine in him?

Lesley Logan 31:15  

Yeah.

Kelli Adame 31:15  

Or are you trying to? Does that make sense? So what happens for a lot of women is that when you are, so a lot of that is just not knowing how to shift into the feminine energy, where you can call in a man who's not going to be threatened by that. Typically, you're going to be when you're that strong, and you're showing up in that masculine energy with men, you're either going to attract men who want to take advantage of you. Right? They want a sugar mama. Plenty of those out there. This little boy, mama helped me feel better. Right? 

Lesley Logan 31:44  

I had a friend and he was living his best life for several years. And then one day, she's like, okay, I'm done with you little house boy. And he's like, I'm homeless now. I'm like, I don't feel bad for you at all, you lived the best life for three years. You owe her a lot. 

Kelli Adame 32:00  

Yes, yes, no, but that's like mama taking care of a little boy. Put a roof over your head and pay for your food and your good time and (inaudible). So you're the primary giver, he's the primary receiver that's going to create either a parent-child dynamic over time, it's going to neutralize chemistry again, that's also Peter Pan. He's fun for a while. Yeah, not a good longtime partner. The issue for women is that I don't care how strong a woman is, she needs to feel the strength of her man. So as women, when we in our core, we crave security and safety differently than a man does. So for us, it's like, even though I'm super self-sufficient, and I'm strong and I can go do all these things like I there's a part of me that wants to just like, relax into the masculine of my husband and let him lead certain things and feel protected and know that you can be there for me, I don't most women I encounter if you're functioning in the masculine energy full time all the time, you're exhausted or your adrenals are drained or you have over-producing cortisol. You're if not, we're not designed to do that. So most women, I know, they're like, I'm tired. I have, like, I  decision fatigue, I run a business, I run a team, I run all this stuff, I take care of all these other people I would love to just be taken cared of in some way. It doesn't always mean a man has to make more money than you. Does that make sense? 

Lesley Logan 33:25  

No, because they could be, you could have a house husband, who is taking care of everything for you and the kids and you come home and there's no responsibility at home. And then you can, you know, you can absolutely I think that's an option. 

Kelli Adame 33:37  

And you can you can negotiate. But it's also it's, it's not just that it's just that a man knows who he is and he understands what his worth and value and purpose is and that he's not intimidated by your success. And if a man is then he's, he's probably just not a good fit for you. Because either he has his own wounding or he has his own unfulfilled things in his life that he needs to go feel purpose and fulfilled about first. It's true that most men don't take a queen unless they have their kingdom in order. So women will typically like take a relationship on in any phase that they're in because we're wired for relationship. And we're more monogamously wired men are more polygamously wired. So a man has to die to his selfishness and die to your responsibility to take on one woman and he has to choose you and go wow I'm willing to give up all other vaginas for this one because I think she's really worth it. And so there's a there's a there's a sacrificial nature and not that he wins when he does that if he chooses a good woman. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Lesley Logan 34:41  

Yeah. Okay, so yeah. So fun. Okay, so (inaudible) how does it, I know I think my wheels turn out like visually for you. So how does this work in like today's dating online like it's so, right, because like it's so hard. Like, there's these dating apps, if you like, you almost have to, like DM the guy first or like, are you just gonna sit there and wait? Like, how does? How does this work in, in today's like I so, I want to talk about that because I know we have a lot of single listeners. And like, that's where they're meeting people. It's online, like, they're not going to a bar and meeting people. No one's like doing that anymore. Or, you know, I mean, I'm very lucky. I'm the old story because you're like, how did you and Brad meet? I'm like, believe it or not someone introduced us. You know, it's very rare. So like, what is how do you how do you operate in your feminine and find a good masculine energy in like the space where like, they kind of are thought they are used to women just reaching out to them?

Kelli Adame 35:41  

Yeah, well, so this is one of the things is we've, we've conditioned men in a way that's not to our benefit or their benefit. And the way to reverse that is to stop doing it. Does that make sense? So I think it's true that we have kind of convoluted that and there are plenty of men that will just wait on on their laurels for a woman to pursue them. Which, what you have to understand is whoever pursues and initiates first is signaling that they want to sit in the masculine position. So, so feminine energy members, she is, she loves herself, she values herself and she can be patient, passive, available, and connected to generating happiness in her own life, which is very magnetic, and waiting for men to come pursue her. I was just talking to a client this morning, I was like, you're like the doe, you know, the deer that's in the meadow that's just loving the forest and eating the grass. And you know, and there's a hunt, there's somebody's gonna come hunt you because that's his nature. So it's sort of like, but you're not, you're not worrying about trying to help him hunt, you're not trying to hunt him first. You're not trying, do you see what I'm saying? You're just trying to look good, smell good, feel good. You know, and for women, I say like, look, do your work. Where do you have, you know, some limited beliefs and some wounding and some conditioning and some things that you need to sort of clean out to make yourself fully available? There's a lot of women who are actively dating, but they aren't actually available because they haven't done that work. Does that make sense? 

Lesley Logan 37:14  

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 

Kelli Adame 37:16  

Or what you're mapping to is a relationship blueprint that's maybe somewhat dysfunctional because of whatever dysfunction you inherited in your family. So like, for example, like, I have women that had maybe a father that they loved, but maybe he was a high-functioning alcoholic, right. And so they learned to kind of take care of him and, you know, cherish his feelings, and but he was emotionally unavailable to her, then she's gonna go out and map subconsciously, to other men who are emotionally unavailable. You might have a low, low-key drinking problem, because it's like, oh, that's familiar. It's home. That's what your psyche knows. But what's happening is you're not getting your needs met, you're not feeling pursued, you're not feeling cherished, you're not getting a commitment but you have a blueprint that's mapping you subconsciously. Same thing with a narcissist, someone will map to narcissist, if they had a narcissistic parent. So I'm just saying, sometimes the work is more just spending some time tending to yourself. It's a loving decision. Yeah. And so tend to those things, learn those things and learn what it means to fully embody your own feminine energy. And then because it doesn't matter, it could be online, you could still be introduced, you could be meeting somebody at a store, you could be whatever. When you're integrated in that energy, you're going to attract something very different.

Lesley Logan 38:30  

Yes.

Kelli Adame 38:30  

And you don't (inaudible) and they can find you anywhere. Oh, they can find you online, in the airport in the...

Lesley Logan 38:40  

You guys, the girl who, the woman who introduced Brad and I, she only had met me twice. And him once like, you know, like she, and she met us at very specific times in our life. Like, when I met her, I was leaving my partner of five years. And she was like, hey, do you wanna do this thing? And I was like, fuck yeah I want to do the thing. I have no friends, I lost a partner, and I was of course, I dated him two weeks into moving to L.A. So I lost all the friends, too. So yes, I'm in. And I was like a tourist in my own town. And I was, you know, it was like, I was like, okay, I used to be a fun person, like, this person is (inaudible) me. So I became this. And I was doing a lot of work on like, why do I keep choosing the same person, like, let's talk about that. So it was like, so she met me at that place. It wasn't any of my friends I know for, you know, 14 years or anything like that. And she'd only met him one time and he had been going through something. So we met and we were at that thing and so I think you're spot on that when you if you actually focus on working on yourself and taking yourself to the fullest thing. Even if you're alone a little longer than you think you'd want to be you're gonna be the best fucking version of yourself and you'll just attract the most amazing person and go to you. It's so funny how people want to rush that. Like, because also like it never shocked like I'm never surprised if people are like, oh, they move really fast on that. I'm like, no, they were very integrated people on their own thing. And like it moves faster when you like, don't have a lot of shit to deal with.

Lesley Logan 40:09  

Totally, 100%. It can happen fast. My husband and I knew of each other for about 10 months, but we didn't, we weren't friends, we had some mutual friends. And then he realized he wanted to pursue me. And so then he started to do that. And then I mean, within three months, we were, like, seriously committed within six months, we were engaged in less than a year we were married.  

Lesley Logan 40:35  

Yeah, yeah (inaudible). 

Kelli Adame 40:37  

Because I had done all of it's like, the whole be it till you see it. Like, that's it. And it's not, and I want them to hear this. It's not that you're broken, and you're wounded. And there's something wrong with you. This is like the journey for all of us. And we live in a time where we're very blessed, okay, like, as women, we can go do whatever it is that we want to do professionally, academically, in a world, which is a gift. But you have to know that we suffered some losses around our romantic relationships. And so it's worth going and learning and committing yourself to that journey to have what you want. It's like I said at the beginning, if you want something, what are you willing to do to get it? Why do we think we should just automatically know how to have successful relationships? Or why do we think we understand men? There's so much about men, I love to teach women because I think they genuinely just don't understand. And they're measuring men by their own yardstick which is never gonna work.

Lesley Logan 41:27  

And like I was listening to like, I don't know, it must have been like, The Daily or something like that. But it's like a podcast about women and men and things like that. And like, today, women can do everything, you could buy a house, you can actually have a baby, you just like have a donor sperm, like you can do all these things. And so, yes, part of it, I do think requires a level of standard that they're like, hey, I would like you to meet me at this level. And I do think that somewhere along the way, there wasn't as the same amount of like, that I got so much like, you can be anything you want, you can do everything you want. Like I don't know that my brother got that same. Like, you got this speech that I got, you know, so I feel like there is yes, no, that doesn't, it's not does not mean you get to like, I'm not saying go date the wounded guy. But I am saying like, having that empathy and like, what can like, one of the reasons why I do this podcast is like, what can we do for the men in our lives to, you know, encourage them to find this integrated healthy, masculine energy where they can like really feel like they shine and really attract a great queen that they want to attract. I think that that's part of it is, you know, honoring who we are, I think we can actually instead of fixing them, we could just it sounds like we could just like really work on ourselves because part of the journey was if they meet the queen, they'll rise up to it. And then you know, for those of you who have, you know, sons and brothers, it's like helping them identify like, you know, where they can go to get growth, and it doesn't have to be you. 

Kelli Adame 42:56  

Well, but you have to be careful about that. 

Lesley Logan 42:58  

Okay, tell me. 

Kelli Adame 42:58  

Right? Like I would say the way that you honor a man is respect him. Ask him what he thinks and listen. Let him understand, learn, commit yourself to learning and understanding more about the masculine journey and masculine nature, right? So a man has to do good in order to feel good. That's where they want to fix things. They want to solve problems, they want to win. Men are wired, evolutionary biology, they want to compete, control and conquer, they want to win. And that's why they like competitive sports, (inaudible) playing video games. That's why they like solving problems, that's the way that they're wired. So give them the opportunities to do that in ways that makes sense and respect and appreciate them when they do it. When your husband fixes your Pilates machine and fixes your computer and manages like, the beautiful wrap on your car for the tour is like, babe, look at this. I'm so excited. Look what's happening. Look what I did, look what I managed. It's like, oh my god, it's amazing. And we all benefit from that. So it's like, don't patronize them like, oh, let me help you you know, become your best self. No, that's, it's, I don't like it. It's emasculating. It's disrespectful. Well intended. Do that with your girlfriends. Go get into some therapy or do some work on yourself, girl. But your man, honor and respect him and appreciate what he does do in the world, I say, even though I'm happily married any opportunity that I have to respect and appreciate a man I do it. It's not just a man. It's it's all good man. We want men to change, feed the the higher nature of them, honor and respect them. Like I was making a joke because I'm born and raised in San Diego, but we recently moved to (inaudible) in Idaho. My husband got an amazing job. And every time I go to Costco, I do not I don't know what it is. This never happened when I went to San Diego. Every time I go to Costco, I'll finish loading my car, and I have a cart and there was always some gentleman that's like, hey, can I take that for you? Hey, I got that. Now the guy that works at Costco, just some every day, man that just sees me with a cart, and he's like, hey, can I do it? And I'm like, oh my gosh, yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I allow myself to receive and in small ways. And then I'm grateful for it. 

Lesley Logan 45:13  

Yeah. Okay, so I feel like you may have touched on something, because one of the last questions I had for you, because my gosh, we could just I just fucking, I'm obsessed, I'm just gonna have to, like, join everything that you do, and just, you know, but I feel like there's a lot of people are probably in relationships right now. And they're not willing to give up on them. There's and, and I feel like what you just described that we could do is like, if you were feeling like your, your partner is or even a man in your life is not fully healthy, integrated masculinity. It's like, rewarding the good behaviors of the thing. Like we talked about at the very beginning of episode, but like, respecting them and letting them fit and celebrating when they win and that kind of stuff. And I so like 

Kelli Adame 46:00  

Just genuinely appreciating the stuff they do. We tend to criticize what we don't like, but we take for granted what we're getting.

Lesley Logan 46:07  

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's so true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel like every sitcom of the '90s was like the wife criticizing the thing that they don't like, I feel like oh I'm perfect, right there.

Kelli Adame 46:22  

Totally. But yeah, we could get into a whole tangent about that. But one of the things like working with a lot of men, and a lot of men will say to me about relationships, when they're in with women, they'll be like, I just don't feel appreciated. I don't feel like what I feel like no matter what I do, it's not fair enough. And so why is a man going to give up options for all other women to be in a relationship with a woman where he doesn't feel appreciated? And he doesn't, he feels like he can't win. Again, he wants to win with you. But he's not a woman, you have to help him know how he can win with you. So my husband will ask me, what do you need from me? It's my responsibility to figure out what would feel good to me or what could you do that could help me? And then I can respectfully ask him if he's willing to do it. And then he gets to decide it's his choice. But if he does it, I'm very grateful. And we both win. That's the dance that's so beautiful in terms of the masculine and feminine polarity. 

Lesley Logan 47:19  

Yeah. And you all have to go listen to the episode that Kelli was on before because in your Be It Action Items, there was this really great thing of like, really understanding what would make you feel good? And because then you can, you know, that takes introspection and time and experiments, and I was sharing, I was like, oh, yeah, there was a while back. I was telling my therapist years, like probably like 2020 as like, okay, so I'm really good. In the fifth gear, I'm really good when shit hits, like the fan and like, super grip on the floor falls out. But I feel like now that I like, I'm in my home, my dream home, I should probably like, get my foot off that gas pedal. And I'm like, not really sure how to do that. And she was like, well, what are some things that make you feel good? I'm like, so that's a great question. No clue. So how do I find this out? So she, like, is there a list? Like, is there a list of things like high recovery professions overachiever, and she's like, you're gonna make a list. And then every time you have this free time, you're because if for me, I needed to like, just enjoy free time. But I gave this advice. So you guys can use this for figuring out what make you feel good is like make a list when you're feeling good of all the things that can make you feel good. Don't do it when you're feeling bad, when you're feeling good. And then when you like, have no idea what to do or won't feel good. Yes, look at the list and see which one actually feels good in that moment and try it out. 

Kelli Adame 48:40  

Yeah. 100% like, open up a little note, you know, in your phone, and like start making a list. And then when you're doing something, it doesn't make you feel good. Just add it to the list. And then you have a place to choose from that I always tell women to like, again, if we were conditioned to like you and I were to be you know, good performing masculine. We don't even know I mean, I talked to him all the time. And I'm like, what makes you feel good? They're like, I don't know. I like well, what are you feeling? And then they tell me what they're thinking. I'm like, okay, but that's a thought like, how are you actually feeling? They don't really know. Because so much of the conditioning has been about being productive, being productive, being efficient. And we feel like if I'm just sitting around or I'm connected to my emotions, that's a waste of time. That's a waste of energy. And I think it'd be further from the truth. Your emotions are just as valuable as your rational thoughts. And you have to give them integration. That's you integrating your healthy masculine and feminine energy within yourself. So you want a man who's well-balanced you got to be well-balanced. That's the be it till you see it. 

Lesley Logan 49:38  

Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh, I gosh, I can keep talking to her. We'll take a quick break and then we're going to find out where people will find you, follow you, or work with you. And then if you have more Be It Action Items for us we'll take those too. 

Lesley Logan 49:49  

All right, Kelli, where do you like to hang out? Where can people work with you? I mean, like we all need like a VIP day with you.

Kelli Adame 49:58  

Yeah, oh my gosh. I love it. Well, I told you it's like really exciting time like, because I'm, I'm pivoting now to really teaching so I've created what's called the Love Bravely Academy that's launching October 23rd. So it's a transformational education, you know, experience so there's group and one on one but it's a lot of equipping and teaching, all these things that we're talking about out in a (inaudible). So you can go to lovebravelyacademy.com and then you can follow me on Instagram at Kelli Adame. So it's K-E-L-L-I-A-D-A-M-E. And I always say love bravely and expect miracles because it's worth doing the work and being brave and loving yourself and learning to love well because you get the miracles and the blessings that you take it's like taking your own hero's journey. You know what I mean? 

Lesley Logan 50:45  

I do. I love this. Okay, that will be out when the episode comes out, you guys.

Kelli Adame 50:51  

In November I'm going to launch the Love Bravely podcast. So, I'm trying. Yeah. Come follow. And I'd love to have you on at some point. It would be so fun.

Lesley Logan 51:01  

Oh my God. In already. Yes. But I love it because I want to just like I think like little nuggets of reminders because especially it's like a hot like a recovering infectious overachiever. As someone who's like raised like, do I have to constantly remind myself like, it's okay to need help right now.

Kelli Adame 51:19  

Yes. No, and this is my heart. I love working with high achieving women that are navigating the journey from single and dating to successful committed monogamous relationship and marriage. Like I want it to take you, you know, your heart's desire those but we you know, but we don't get there alone. I didn't get there alone. I'm very so I'm just trying to give everything that I've learned and integrated to as many people as I can. 

Lesley Logan 51:42  

Yeah, I mean, in. Okay. Yes. All that we'll make sure it's all in the show notes. So make sure your podcast is in there as well. But that so that we can all go listen to it? And yes, anytime you let me know, I'm there. Okay, bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps we can take to be it till we see it. Anything you got for us today? 

Kelli Adame 52:00  

Yeah, well, so in terms of honoring the masculine, I think that's a good place, like look at where you're maybe being critical where you're trying to teach, preach, you know, change a man and be willing to maybe not do that. And ask yourself, where can I be grateful like any place that you have men in your life that are doing something as insignificant as opening a door or doing something massive, like, tell him, thank you, and that you appreciate it and how it makes you feel. That's the next piece. Like when you do that it makes me feel loved, cherished, supported. I'm grateful. Thank you. Right? Honor that in a man. I think that's super important, I think continuing to try to do an hour a day of checking in around just feeding your feel-good time. So like, I have a new thing that I'm doing. It's called feel good Fridays. So I basically take half of Friday off, and all I do is schedule things that helped me to feel good. I get my hair blown out, I get my nails done. I go for a walk in nature I call a dear friend I haven't talked to in a long time I write a card like a heartfelt card to somebody. I do. Does that make sense? So just figure out what it is that feeds your feminine energy and protect time on your calendar to literally do that. And ask yourself, how does this make me feel when you're trying to make decisions? How do I really feel? Does it feel good to me? The answer is yes. If it doesn't feel good to me the answer bravely is no. 

Lesley Logan 53:28  

Yeah. I love it. I love it. I love your feel good Fridays. We have FYFs around here so you guys you can do your Fuck Yeah Friday, right? It's just like celebrate what you rocked, you know? And also and then go do some feel good Friday.

Kelli Adame 53:41  

Do what makes you feel good. 

Lesley Logan 53:42  

Yes. Because also like the more you do those things, the more you realize what doesn't make you feel good and it makes it easier for you to ask for those things when you need them. Like I feel like I feel like it's hard for people like I don't know what I need that that's like that's your that's your homework.

Kelli Adame 53:59  

That's the first step, that's the first step. Yeah. And I think part of that is just committing to that being consistent because you're gonna rewire the neurological pathways in your brain. So you know it's all of that but yeah, and I think so those are those are the things I think those who have this conversation make the most sense. I can give you a million but I don't (inaudible) like I'd rather give you like few that you could just really go (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 54:24  

My ladies vote take a million and like whereas as helping them become recovering perfectionist overachievers, we'll take those. We'll start there.

Kelli Adame 54:33  

That's what I say all the time. Progress not perfection. You know what I mean?

Lesley Logan 54:37  

Yes. Yes, I do. We always say perfect is boring around here. Like nobody really wants to be friends with perfect.

Kelli Adame 54:44  

Why laugh because, yeah, no, of course who wants to be with a saint? But I have a client I remember, she always tells me what happens with a lot of what we'll talk about and I'll explain something that's happening and it'll get illuminated and we'll be like, okay, great. And then I go what do I do everything is what do I do? Okay, now what do I do? I go, just be with what we just illuminated for a second. Watch the part of you that's so quick to what do I have to do just marinate in what you're learning, listen to this podcast and just take a few minutes and just take all of that in, you know? And then and then go do something. Feel good to do good, ladies. 

Lesley Logan 55:22  

Feel good to do good. You guys. I hope this is as enlightening for you as it's been for me. I've been looking forward to this interview since our last one. I'm just so excited to know you. I can't wait for our paths to cross again. Y'all, how are you going to integrate this into your life? How are you going to receive it? We want to know. Make sure you tag Kelli, tag the Be It Pod. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 55:46  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 56:14  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 56:29  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 56:34  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 56:38  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 56:45  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 56:48  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

In this inspiring episode of FYF, Lesley Logan shares transformative stories and practical advice for those aiming to enhance their professional journey. Discover the power of community as we explore real-life success stories from solopreneurs who defied the odds to build a thriving business. Gain insights on how small, daily improvements can lead to significant progress, and the impact of integrating new skills to achieve client satisfaction.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• You don’t need a million followers to have all the lead magnets in place.
• Impact of applying the things you have learned from your mentor. 
• Keeping intentions and building meaningful connections. 
• How to affirm your intrinsic worth or what you deserve. 

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Kelly Nyhan, an agency member
• Mentions, Stephanie Eder, an agency member
• Claire Sparrow Episode
• HOPE For Your Pelvic Floor
• Nada Nasserdeen Episode

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Get your discount for some Toe Sox using the code: LESLEY

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FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Follow Us on Social Media:

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:01  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Get ready for some wins. 

Lesley Logan 0:05  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:47  

Hello, Be It babe. Welcome to the Fuck Yeah Friday episode. The FYF. I'm so excited for these they are so fun because I could celebrate your wins. I could just share the wins of mine which means I have to keep track of mine and we get to live a little mantra and it's really fun to quick dose to quick hit and hopefully get a little something out of it because sometimes you don't have a full 30 minutes to get your nuggets of gym information to help you be it till you see it. So this one's from Kelly Nyhan. It's worth repeating if it inspires a few solopreneurs and or women that are going off on their own studio or solo living and working. So Kelly is an agency member you guys and she owns a studio by herself and she has her own place and like all these things. So here is her win. I have been on my own since 2018 and making it, more than making it. I live in Chicago and it's cold, hot and expensive. I am single and I have a biz that I love. If you need some info or need a bit of pep to know that you can do this. Hit me up. I am light years behind making all perfect and I don't have all the marketing down but every day I tried to get 1% smarter, every week, push the needle a little more. I just wanted to post this in case you need to hear this. This can be scary. But action brings clarity and knowing my numbers I can sleep at night. I know I can do things so much better. Just one day at a time. I will say when I joined agency in 2019 my biz grew noticeably more than that. My numbers grow and I grow. Thanks to this community of women of badasses. Just knowing that I'm not alone helps you so much. You guys, Kelly Nyhan has made more each and every year that she's been with us and what her studio brings in by herself. No renters, no memberships, no affiliates, it's something that is so powerful, so amazing and something that I love celebrating with her because too often, I meet women who are like I'm alone by myself some only make like $50,000. PS, you can make so much more and you don't have to have a thousand million followers or have all the lead magnets in place you can actually just be really frickin good at taking care of yourself, knowing your numbers, and putting in going 1% better. So I frickin love that Kelly, thank you for sharing that. So all the women listening can realize that they can do it too. 

Lesley Logan 2:59  

Okay. Stephanie Eder she started a mentor training with UK Claire and unable to put the breath components into action with my clients and they are feeling the difference. Heck, I'm feeling the difference. My sleep has improved. I told myself no more training for at least a year, but I'm so happy I chose this one. So Stephanie Eder was in. She is an agency and she was one of my eLevators last year and she is taking Claire Sparrows' training. And you guys remember Claire Sparrow from the pod. She's also been in some FYFs because she published a great book. And so if you are wanting to go through her pelvic floor training, you should definitely reach out to her. So thank you, Kelly and Stephanie for sharing your amazing wins. It's so fun to celebrate what you're doing. 

Lesley Logan 3:38  

Al right, my win. So, here's the deal. I, I made an intention I think you might have heard from one of the FYFs that this year, I wanted to meet up with more people in person in Las Vegas, like more women in person I'm trying to what I realized is I don't have the community that I had in L.A. because what we had an L.A., there would be these monthly meetups, with all these other local fitness instructors, and it just was really fun like as part of communities, and someone was arranging it. And now I live in a place where there's no one arranging it. And I'm in charge of several communities. So I really don't want to be in charge of another one to be completely honest. But I interviewed Nada Nasserdeen, and she's going to be on the podcast. In fact, she's probably on the same month that this is dropping. So she's on the podcast and she and I were like, we just need to like hang out more and let's have a coffee date. And so we set a, picked the time in a day that the two of us could do. And then we literally just invited people and we went to a coffee shop I didn't know reminding to the people I invited I just was like if you're going to come put in your calendar now this is it. Because I don't want to be in charge of this group. I just want to be in this group. And it was the most fun. There was seven women who came. I knew Nada and I knew the girl, one of the girls I invited. I did not know this other girl that was introduced to Nada and I. Nada invited another girl and that girl invited someone. And then the girl I invited invited someone. So we had this like group of people and only like, like, I knew what one person look like. Other people knew what one person looked like. So it was just really fun to like, blind date a bunch of amazing women in this in this town, and I'm sure I'll have some of them on the pod. And we are working hard to pick our next date. So we're trying to meet up monthly, but we're, we're really wanting it to be something that's super fun, we can just connect and share connections and share leads on things and I was like, here's how I, here's how I do my makeup. So I don't have to actually do my makeup. Here's my bookkeepers so you don't have to do your bookkeeping. So it's just really, really fun to live and to learn. I learned something about real estate that I had no idea about. Just amazing. And so that's why win. My intention is to hang up with people in person. I set the first, we set the first date, I went to the first thing and obviously, it's not going to just do it on its own. But I love that the first one happened and I can celebrate that. 

Lesley Logan 5:58  

All right now for your mantra for the weekend. Or the week if you want to do that. I am proof enough of who I am and what I deserve. I am proof enough of who I am. And what I deserve. My dear, you are proof enough of who you are and what you deserve. Thank you so much for listening to the Be It Pod. You really are an inspiration to me. You're why we do this. You sharing this, you listen to this, you writing in, it means the world to me, I had someone reach out and say they've been listening to 70 episodes and I'm just like, oh my freaking goodness. Thank you so much. I hoped that someday someone would do that. Because I do that to podcasts all the time and to have it happen to mine it's just like dreams come true. So my dears, you are proof enough of who you are and what you deserve. Thank you so much. And I will see you next time. 

Lesley Logan 6:51  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 7:18  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 7:33  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:38  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 7:42  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 7:50  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 7:53  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Explore the groundbreaking work of Rebeka Borucki in making the publishing industry more inclusive and equitable. Through her founding of Row House Publishing, Rebeka provides a platform for marginalized voices, promoting diversity in children's literature. Brad and Lesley covers her dedication to social justice, the impact of her initiatives on communities, and her advocacy for a more inclusive literary world.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected].

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Impact to community when sharing and redistributing wealth.
• Rebeka's approach to empowering marginalized voices.
• The value of sharing and developing ideas openly.
• Rebeka’s emphasis on the strength in collective actions.

Episode References/Links:

• Rebeka Borucki
• Row House Publishing
• Studio Growth Accelerator
• OPC Summer Camp
• OPC Workshops
• Cambodia Early Bird
• Little Readers Big Change

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

DEALS! Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper’s Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources:

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Follow Us on Social Media:

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Your country cannot be wealthy if you do not take care of your poor. And the more impoverished people are, the less wealthy a country is. And until and this goes for every country, not just I mean, obviously we live here, but like how we take care of those who have less than us is how we take care of each other truly. 

Lesley Logan 0:19  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 1:01  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the inclusionary combo I have with Rebekah Borucki in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened that episode, go back and listen to it because holy frickin moly.

Brad Crowell 1:14  

She is a powerhouse. 

Lesley Logan 1:15  

She is a powerhouse. She's a badass, she's like, like just all things amazing. Just all things amazing. So you should just pause this, go listen to that and come back. Or you can listen to this first because you're here and maybe you're you know, got your hands wet. And then make sure your podcast plays right into the one from Tuesday. Before we get into Rebekah's amazing words, today is March 21st 2024 and it is both world Poetry Day and Companies That Care Day. So I couldn't pick because I like them both because one, poetry, Rebekah is a founder of a publishing house. So like and she's a writer, so that kind of made sense. And then companies that care. She is a company that cares. So I kind of liked they both landed on this day. World Poetry Day was actually invented by UNESCO in 1999. So it's all here to like protect poetry. And I'm not a good poetry writer. But shout out to Alison Whipple, who is one of our agency members who is like, very humble, but also a very, very published poet, and does some amazing work. And then companies that care, you know, what you tell us about your company that, you know, that cares. But basically what that is, is like, companies are supposed to start to recognize that it's their employees that are if their employees are happy, they're a better company, so they should give some it fucks about the people that they hire, period. End of story. Okay, so upcoming events and travel and such. I'm actually getting on a plane tomorrow to go to Dallas. Yeah. But when I get back, Brad has an amazing two-hour workshop for Pilates instructors and business owners. 

Brad Crowell 2:45  

Yes, I do. It's called the Studio Growth Accelerator, and y'all should join me. So basically, we are going to be digging into our new Accel formula, A-C-C-E-L. It's going to be a deep dive into how we can create jumpstart, kickstart, actually generate the growth that your studio needs to have. So if you are feeling like you have been stuck, you're looking for clients, you make the same money you got last year, you just can't get the get the ball moving forward. This accelerator is for you. And you can join me by going to PRfit.biz/accelerator that's PRfit.biz/accelerator. It's gonna be a two-hour workshop. So, you know, our two-hour hangout we'll probably talk for about 90 minutes and then we'll do Q&A or something. So yeah, come join me.

Lesley Logan 3:39  

And then we have we're getting up we've been playing all day today that we're recording this summer camp. Oh my gosh, so last year at OPC, OnlinePilatesClasses.com we had our first ever summer camp there's six teachers was super super fun. This particular year I want to do it bigger and better and better and more think just like true summer camp vibes without the bunk beds without the without the bugs without the travel and there is access 

Brad Crowell 4:04  

Without the terrible roommate.

Lesley Logan 4:05  

Yeah, you won't have a terrible roommate, you won't have like crappy food. 

Brad Crowell 4:08  

Your parents won't be dropping you off.

Lesley Logan 4:10  

Like fake cheese you know like, no, no, no, it's gonna you'll be able to attend from the comfort of your own home with your camera off if you want to. And you'll have lifetime access to the replays which is super, super amazing. So you want to go to opc.me/workshops, opc.me/workshops, you want to be on the waitlist if you want to get the best. I'm actually you want to be an OPC member if you want to get the best OPC price (inaudible) they are and then people on the waitlist get the next hookup and then those who are neither of those get the next hookup which is not as good as the first hookup or the second one. So just so you know. And then finally as we're recording this we actually only have like how many spots left in Cambodia?

Brad Crowell 4:50  

Two, two spots left. 

Lesley Logan 4:52  

And actually before this episode comes out, (inaudible) someone's already, somebody's already doing an email, a mass email to their people. So it's quite possible by the time you listen to this, it is actually sold out. 

Brad Crowell 5:06  

However. 

Lesley Logan 5:07  

However, we've already planned 2025. 

Brad Crowell 5:10  

That's right. 

Lesley Logan 5:10  

Yeah. So you actually can purchase your spot now for the February 2025 retreat.

Brad Crowell 5:17  

And I would recommend you do it because this one sold out real fast. 

Lesley Logan 5:21  

It didn't even take two months. It's insane. And so we're super, super excited about this. It's our very special retreat. It's really magical. And we actually got to hang out with a couple of our Cambodia retreaters in real life here in Las Vegas. And they were talking about all the amazing stuff that they took away from it and like implemented right away. So I just love that. So anyways, crowsnestretreats.com. Crows (that's a plural) nestretreats.com. All right, before we get into Rebekah's amazingness. What is our audience question, Brad? 

Brad Crowell 5:54  

Yeah, we had a great one from Angela today on Instagram. She's asking, Have you any experience with upholstery cracking on your reformers, the studio I work for has Merrithew reformers and it seems to be a recurring issue. I'm wondering if the cleaners they're using are too harsh. And the boss says it's just human skin oils. But I've not had this problem with mine at home, nor have I heard about it from other teachers who use other brands like Legacy or Balanced Body. 

Lesley Logan 6:22  

Okay, Angela. So here's the deal. If it was body oil, it would not be cracking it, it would actually be like white moisturizing it or like oiling it like it's actually like oil is actually really great 

Brad Crowell 6:36  

The oil isn't gonna dry it out. 

Lesley Logan 6:38  

Now, I will say this, you didn't ask for this. But there are some manufacturers and I won't name names because I'm not interested in being yelled at. But where whatever they used to coat the wood of their, also, it was not, it doesn't happen on my Contrology but there are some wood push-through bars, and also wood reformers that whatever they use to like, shine up the wood, when you use cleaner on it the human sweat makes it sticky. So that is awful and gross. And like, I will never buy that brand of equipment because you can't unfix that. But as far as upholstery cracking it is 100% the material you're using, and or not material, like cleaning supplies. Yeah. 

Brad Crowell 7:24  

Like if they're using Pine Sol on it. 

Lesley Logan 7:26  

Well, yeah, you should not be using that. Also if you're using like a like, you want to make sure that any of those wipes you're using because now that we're in a post-COVID world, everybody wants to use these wipes. The thing about those is one, it's a lot more trash, two, it might not be allowed on your equipment. Just because it's allowed on gym equipment doesn't mean it's allowed on Pilates equipment. And so I like Balanced Body's cleaner, it's really easy, you get a big bottle, you take a cap full, you get some water and it's super, super easy to clean. A lot of people will use tea tree oil and I know I said oil and oil makes it oily but the truth is that there's something in the tea tree oil that actually will dry out equipment overtime and make a crack or upholstery overtime they can crack. So I don't have a ton of people coming to my equipment. So I do use a method spray on a towel because again, it's not it's happening like once a day if that on my equipment. In my old studio, I would use like a method soap if I ran out of the Balance Body and I put a few drops in water and that got really clean. But also, you will always need to use a little soft bristle toothbrush with a microfiber towel to get the skin out of your equipment because oh my gosh, there's little groups and like it's gross, it's so gross. And just because equipment is a darker color doesn't mean it's not happening it just means you're not seeing it. But 100% whatever you're using is too harsh for that upholstery and you may want to go to the manufacturers of that upholstery and find out what they recommend you clean it with because it's quite possible they're using different material than what you mentioned the other brands.

Brad Crowell 9:01  

It's also possible that maybe it's in direct sunlight.

Lesley Logan 9:04  

Oh that is also so what happens with direct sunlight is and that's why we put blankets on our equipment in the house because the sun here it actually so I don't it's like there's a sheen

Brad Crowell 9:16  

Because it's wrapped around a little bit around the edges and it can become brittle if the sun is baking baking and baking it and then the and then it will crack along the edges. 

Lesley Logan 9:26  

And also it makes it really hard to spin around on so like I used to (inaudible) a ladder barrel that was in the wind in a window and you could never slide on the ladder barrel because it was like had just like dried it out. So yeah, you guys, this stuff is amazing. This equipment's amazing, will last you years if you take care of it, but if you're using the wrong cleaner, you'll have to re-upholster it. And that thing about upholstery is eventually, if you re-upholster, I bought extra shoulder blocks because you know, you hit it the wrong way it could definitely hit a tear so 

Brad Crowell 9:55  

We dropped our reformer box and it split the corner unfortunately, you know, stuff happens. 

Lesley Logan 10:00  

So yeah, if you have a question you would like us to answer, it can be anything doesn't have to be Pilates. 

Brad Crowell 10:07  

It could be anything. 

Lesley Logan 10:08  

It could be anything. We're happy to answer it and see that you send it to the Be It Pod.

Brad Crowell 10:13  

All right now let's talk about Rebekah Borucki. Rebekah is the author of children's books founder and president of Row House Publishing and has been transforming the literary world by fostering equitable practices for marginalized authors. With a background shaped by adversity and activism, she passionately redefines publishing norms, she ensures access to diverse books for children in underserved communities, embodying the change she seeks in the industry. 

Lesley Logan 10:39  

Yeah, she's cool. 

Brad Crowell 10:41  

This was a really inspiring interview. And I just really felt empowered by the decisions she made. The frustrations that she felt frustrated me too. And then hearing what she decided to do about it. was really cool to hear. I also was laughing because she was like, Yeah, I definitely, definitely didn't know what I was getting myself into when I was like, well, I'm gonna make my own publishing company.

Lesley Logan 11:10  

I know, I think it's probably better that she did it. Because you know what it's like, as you if you know too much, you it's like becomes overwhelming. So if you don't know (inaudible). But you guys, if you did not listen, you have to listen to this because Brad and I talked about values a lot, like what are our values and like, how we filter decisions through our values, and like, not everything's gonna go the way you want to. But like, she was sitting in a room realizing like this is, they're not doing right by, by people.

Brad Crowell 11:38  

She was signed to a publishing group, she had an agent, all the things going well, and they were dickheads.

Lesley Logan 11:44  

Yeah. And she did like, and this is like something like so because I mean, so many writers would be like, Oh, my God, I got a publisher, I got an agent, I got all the things. I made it, and she got published and she stuck with her values and she marched off and she created Row House publishing and I also it's another thing just to like another little highlight, you also picked up which is like niching, to a specific type of genre, which is you can write about any kind of genre, as long as it's in the lens of social justice.

Brad Crowell 12:16  

Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool. Because a lot of publishers will pick, like, we do fantasy, or we do science books or whatever, you know, but her her niche is, can cross multiple genres. Yeah. Because it's about a topic or standing for something. And I also thought she niched down even more, she said, you had to further a conversation in a way that hasn't been, you know, furthered yet. So it's not like she's intentionally trying to move the conversation forward with the books that the company's publishing, which I thought was pretty, pretty cool.

Lesley Logan 12:53  

I mean, so cool. Like, just I mean, I feel like I don't know, maybe she sat down one day, and was like, wouldn't it be cool if and then that's what she created, because it's freaking cool. And I actually reached out to Kelly (inaudible), who is a romance novel that we've had on and I was like, I don't know if you want to write a romance novel, in this lens. But I think you'll really love Rebecca. And I think you'd love Rojas publishing, so just saying. Anyways one of the things we talked about that I really liked it, she's, this is her words, so I'm gonna make sure you know that she's like, she's like, it is up to us to stand up and say something. And then also said, it's up to us to share and redistribute wealth. We had nothing and we were constantly giving, so I can't resonate with her life in that way, but I remember like, my family didn't have any money. And we were constantly taking people in and feeding people. And I'm like, we have no money, what are we doing, but my parents never let that stop, making sure people got taken care of. And it's really interesting. I think a lot of people don't realize how important that is. And they don't do it. And she, her family had nothing. And they were constantly giving. And she took that redistribution of wealth as part of like, how into her values and how she does what she does. And that's why her publishing company actually pays authors a wage that they can live off of, because like, I mean, that's the biggest thing we hear with all of our friends were authors and like, you sell a book, which you like, make nothing. Yeah, like you make speaking, you make money off of speaking later.

Brad Crowell 14:20  

Yeah, I mean, that's the big joke in the publishing industry, unless you're like, you have, you're on the news every day, you don't have enough reach to, to generate the demand, so that you can go to a publishing company and say pay me upfront, you know, X amount of dollars. So, you know, for this book, most publishing companies will be like, I'll give you, I'll pay you a little bit and it's not much, right? So, everybody that we talked to, in our circles says yeah, I use my book as my loss leader. I use my book as my lead magnet, you know, all this kind of stuff because they're, it's it seems dim You're gonna get something that's like, oh, legit. 

Lesley Logan 15:02  

And you know, here's the thing, that whenever I hear that it kind of pisses me off a little bit. And publishing. Yeah, it just kind of pissed me off, because I'm like, it's kind of like when I started teaching Pilates and I was like, oh, no, you just charge less than that person, and they charge less than this person. And we all are just happy family of no one making any money and always, like, not having enough. And I kind of, I kind of love that she's bucking the system, stay true to our values. And then using the money, her company's making to redistribute wealth, to put it in hands of people who are furthering conversations, who are bringing things to light, who are getting things into becuase you know, here's the thing about books you guys. Like, there are things that happen in books have changed your perspective of how you think about something, how you see something, I'm listening to a book on Audible right now that I just, my mind is blown in every single chapter. I really just think it's cool how she's gotten to where she is, and she's just hitting the ground running and not stopping until she gets this message out there and changes the publishing world. 

Brad Crowell 16:05  

I really loved when she was talking about the old guard versus the reality of life today. You know, for me, I struggle, I struggle with this a lot. As you know, Lesley and I follow a lot of politics. So I'm actually I stay aware of what's going on in the US Congress, in the Senate, in the house, in and then also internationally because we traveled so much to Cambodia. And it's really frustrating when someone who, you know, has like generational wealth, who's a billionaire, and has an opinion can just write a big fat check and then it like, throws a wrench into supporting people and that makes me angry. And (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 16:56  

It's so fucking frustrating. Since you brought it up. Here's what's frustrating. Because your country cannot be wealthy, if you do not take care of your poor. And the more poverished people are, the less wealthy a country is. And until and this goes for every country, not just I mean, obviously, we live here, but like, how we take care of those who have less than us is how we take care of each other truly. And it's really frustrating that like some of the things that change what happened, even the people we voted for, it's like, okay, so we're just gonna take this little morsel, because that's what we got from the old guard. You know what I mean? Like it changes so freaking slow pisses me off. 

Brad Crowell 16:56  

Yeah. And that's where like taking a stand in her choice to work with a company that was literally the old guard. And, she said, five of their authors were the biggest disinformation books when it came to COVID. vaccines. Yeah. And she said, I had a problem with that. And you know, but the people in the room were like, yeah, but it makes us money. So we don't actually give a shit.

Lesley Logan 18:02  

And here's the thing, that's crazy. This is why I truly believe her publishing company is going to be doing amazing things because the way that the old publishing houses were doing it, and the way the old media outlets are doing it, they're all dying. They're not making money, because they were always trying to please the people at the top with the money. And they were not actually paying attention to the people who watch the programs, who read the programs. 

Brad Crowell 18:28  

Yeah. And so you know, and, you know, what was crazy to me to hear at the end, like, so obviously, she started Row House Publishing with a mission and they're definitely, they're not I, she said, they're an activist, company, but they also, they've grown right? So they have had small donations to get the ball rolling, but they clearly had large donors, because one of the things that they decided to take a stand for the large donor decided to pull a half a million dollar contribution from from what they were trying to do. And that's fucking terrifying. But it's also insane. It's also crazy that, you know, someone has that kind of leverage that kind of power, and how dramatic that can affect a small company, and kudos for her for, you know, buckling down going back to what they do, which is reach out to their community and rally around each other and support each other. That is really inspiring. But, she said, ownership really needs to be in the hands of marginalized people, just because they know how to get things done, because they don't have the luxury of being like, well just reach into my empty $8 billion pocketbook thing. 

Lesley Logan 19:49  

They've always had to like figure it out. And so they figure it like they can figure it out. And it's, they can figure it out in ways that can take big dollars and make them go further than people with the big dollars could ever have done.

Brad Crowell 20:01  

And honestly, not only that, I really think that when you go through, like the fire and come out the other side, and then can make money, raise money, have that influence, you will do different things with it. Yeah, you just appreciate it differently.

Lesley Logan 20:19  

Yeah. Well, also, I mean, like, you know how important even a little bit can impact someone's life. Like, Rebekah has the charity that brings books to children, right? And like, the power of reading at a young age and having access to books, it like though, these are big deal things. They're not small. And the things that get cut for places where there is not enough money, are the things that actually can change the world.

Brad Crowell 20:50  

I'll tell you like it blows my mind because, you know, many years ago, you'll hear me talking about Cambodia ad nauseam. But many years ago, a friend of mine moved to Cambodia. And he made it seem impossible for me to get there. And years after being there, he said, yeah, you know, every family that works for me, I require them to send their kids to school, and they have to check in. And the school tells me if the kids don't show up for school, he said, I, he said this is a country of extreme wealth and extreme poverty. And he said I believe wholeheartedly that education is going to be the factor that changes that. And unfortunately, it's just slow going, but that's what needs to happen. And as an American, I was like, well, we got that fucking box checked. What good kudos for us over the last, you know, eight years, really paying attention to politics and starting to learn more about the education in our country. I'm shocked at the the lack of consistency across the art, you know, we have 50 different states, and we have 8000 different, literally, 8000 different municipalities that have different laws and it's crazy, crazy to me. 

Lesley Logan 22:15  

Yeah, it's really it is. And it's really sad, because the way that education is paid for is based off of property taxes which means if you live in a poor area, there are no property taxes, people are renters, which means the schools get the least amount of support are the ones that if you gave them the most, they would change the world. It'd be generational change. My mother is a teacher. I have a special place in my heart for teachers. You all do so much, you get paid so little. And now they don't teach cursive anymore?

Brad Crowell 22:50  

Yeah, no.

Lesley Logan 22:51  

I don't even understand like, why not? Why just anyways, we can go on and on. I fucking love her. And I do agree with her that when you give people who have been marginalized, when you give them ownership, they will make absolute amazing change. 

Brad Crowell 23:07  

She said when that shifts for everyone, when there are more female leaders, black, brown, disabled queer leaders, she said when that shifts, everything is going to shift for everybody. 

Lesley Logan 23:17  

For everybody. It will really, truly well. So I can't wait to see that happen. You know, maybe I'll pray.

Brad Crowell 23:25  

Okay, finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items, what bold, executable intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation with Rebekah Borucki? She said as soon as you have a dream or an idea, start talking about it. Talk about it, do not wait until you have the perfect presentation. Start ideating, dreaming, discussing, it will help you figure that out. It'll help it come to shape, come to life. When you have other people to help bounce ideas off of she said, enlisting, it will help effectively to enlist an accountability partner and she said, Rebekah did the same thing when she wrote her children's book, she said I'm gonna write a children's book by X date and then she called a friend and said here's what I want to do, hold me accountable. Right? And by talking about it, she was able to make it happen. I think the hard thing about this is the fear of failure. Right? You know, the fear that like this grandiose dream that you may have that honestly, maybe it's not even that grandiose, but this dream that you have, if it doesn't come together, you're gonna let yourself down, you're gonna let others down, you know, all those kinds of things. And I definitely, I definitely understand that. You know, I really wanted to go to music school and I was auditioning to get a scholarship and I was really afraid that I wasn't going to get into school. So I didn't really tell that many people that I literally was taking trombone lessons. After high school, I would go and take, like sessions with a professional player, you know, and I would go practice on my own. And people were like, where are you going? And I wouldn't tell them. Because if what if I, what if I auditioned and I failed? You know? You know, but imagine if I had instead shared and said, I'm gonna go do this because I want to go get the scholarship, the encouragement and support that would have helped me. 

Lesley Logan 25:29  

Oh, my gosh, it's so true. It's so true. I loved when she talked about community, of course, I think that Be It Action Item is amazing. So she said be in community, on any level, with others in the practice of giving, but also, and this is the part I loved, receiving. Because I think a lot of people will like, oh, I'm doing this thing. And I'm doing this thing I'm giving, giving, giving, but you're never receiving. And it's really important to receive because you learn so much more about yourself and others. And then you have the ability to give when it's when you have the ability to give. She also said build those relationships, there are ones that will sustain you mentally. And then there are some that can sustain you financially if you need it. That puts you in the spirit of feeling that you're doing good. And then also she said this, also advocate and be an activist in your own way. And I think that's really cool. I think we sometimes we think of the word activist, and we think we have to like be out screaming with a poster somewhere. But you don't have to be that you can be an activist in your own family and making sure they vote, I can be an activist right now I'm gonna advocate for all of you, wherever you live, if you are allowed to vote. If you are actually allowed to vote where you live, you must do it, you owe it to yourself to do it. And for those you who live in the States, I'm gonna tell you right now, make sure you're registered. Double check, do all the things. Make sure your family is I don't care if you don't like all options. You have like, I vote in the advocacy of others, of always thinking of other people when I choose the person I'm voting for. And like that is my way of being an activist and advocate. And it's not big, it's not huge. And other ways you can be an activist or an advocate is like charitable work, like you can actually donate. Like, if you don't have the time, if you have some money, you can give it to them, right? Or you can connect people who might have the money that this charity needs. There's like so many ways you can act as an advocate. You can like so never ever think like, oh, I don't I'm not I'm not someone who can, who can stand up to a crowd and like tell people things, you can do it in your own way. And one of the things I'm excited to share is that after listening to Rebekah, I was so inspired. I was like, how do I talk to this woman all the time? And I still haven't figured that out. So but what I can tell you is she told me she told us about Little Readers Big Change, that organization. And I know the power of reading for me when I was a little kid, I know what it did for me and what it did for my creativity and my imagination and all that stuff. And so OPC's charity for this year is Little Readers Big Change. And I just found out from our team that we are making our first, our Q1 payment to that charity. So I can't tell you today how much it is because I wasn't told that yet. But I can tell you that we have them slotted I'm so excited. We will be donating each quarter to them. And I think that is a really cool way to give back. 

Brad Crowell 28:14  

Yeah, every year we choose a new charity to support and so yeah, we're stoked to be effectively helping bring books to schools.

Lesley Logan 28:25  

Yeah. So thank you, Rebekah, for letting me know about this amazing charity it's so cool to learn about it and it's really cool that we can we can donate to that charity this year. I'm Lesley Logan. 

Lesley Logan 28:35  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 28:36  

Thank you so much for listening to this. Shout out to Roxy Menzies who was a guest who was the one who connected Rebekah. She knew I would love her. I do a lot and I'm really so excited to hear what your takeaways are, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Please let the Be It Pod know. Let Row House Publishing, let Rebekah know, like, tell her if any of these parts is really took because you know what, it's really hard to run a company and I bet you today she might just need to hear that like something she said just blew your mind, changed your life, inspired you to do something big. I'm sure it would make her feel incredibly amazing. So, go do that and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 29:11  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 29:13  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 29:41  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 29:56  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 30:00  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 30:05  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 30:12  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 30:15  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.