Be It Till You See It

Filled with valuable insights and empowering lessons, Lesley and Brad examine the power of positive self-talk and the true measure of growth beyond financial gains. Prepare to be motivated and uplifted by Ripley Rader’s success story and be encouraged to kick-start your own dreams. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why positive self-talk is better than self-deprecating comments or humor.
• The multifaceted dimensions of growth beyond monetary success.
• How to foster a sense of community instead of competition by shifting your outlook towards others in your industry.
• How to prioritize your mental health by setting boundaries.
• Why true accomplishments stem from relentless dedication and hard work.

Episode References/Links:

• OPC Workshops and Workouts
• Profitable Pilates Workshops UK 
• West Coast Summer Tour
• Contrology Pilates Conference (Poland)
• Cambodia Pilates Retreat

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Don't let not knowing how to do something stop you from doing the thing. Do more yourself. You know, I think that that I think it works really well. But you need to know something about you. If you are someone who is going to do it all and then burnout and resent everything and quit. You need to you need at least someone to help you. Yeah. And if that's someone doing your groceries in your laundry, okay, great.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the refreshingly authentic nonvo I have with Ripley Rader, in our last episode, if you haven't yet listened to the interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen that one and then come back and join us. You're gonna have to listen to this. First of all, I just love her. (...) I want to talk to her every day. It's really what I want to do. And I feel like we could be sisters. (...) I really do. I think that like I want to see her in real life because I just want to take a selfie and see if we really do look like we really are but just the red hair and the big lips. So anyways, so we're going to enter this interview recap in just a moment, before we do, today is July 6, which is virtually hug a virtual assistant day and I, thanks, team. I really hope that virtual hugs head all of my team members on this day and I probably will. Yes. Our entire team is virtual so and they're not all assistants, but they all assist us in many ways. So big hugs to all of them, but you should hug your VA virtually as well today. And if you're listening to this on a different date, you can, you know, send a belated hug, it's always good to have a hug. This weekend...

Brad Crowell 1:44  

it's not like a trumpet announcement.

Lesley Logan 1:46  

It really was trying to be something that it didn't (...) that's sort of like Star Wars and I don't like it. So anyways, we have the OPC summer camp weekend. You guys...

Brad Crowell 2:01  

It's coming up this weekend. Like in two days. 

Lesley Logan 2:05  

Talk about like, like we are, I am so excited. It's gonna be like a, what do you call it? like we're gonna have our computers out we are these like central zone where the where the back where the producers of this entire...(Brad: we are the producers) what is that called? When you're the back of the house, we're the back, anyways...

Brad Crowell 2:25  

We are the, were the virtual assistants. 

Lesley Logan 2:28  

Yes, we are. So our OPC teachers and contributors are putting on some incredible workshops and workouts you can check all out at the opc.me/event page. It's the first time we're doing multiple in a weekend. And to be honest, we just wanted to have a big...

Brad Crowell 2:45  

Multiple workshops and workouts. Yeah, this is a two day event. This is the first time happening...

Lesley Logan 2:49  

And you don't need to be on Zoom with us all day long. You can buy the ones that intrigue you, skip the ones that don't or buy them all and watch them on your own time, does not have to be this weekend. However, if you buy them before we go live, there's always a special price. So just know that. So all the OPC teachers have their own individual specialty workshops. And then we have a team workshop on Sunday, which is all about the teaser. And we're going to do a deep dive on how to help you with the teaser because so many people hit flexure it out. You know they're, like, doing the vasana. And yeah, their toes are too high. Their quads are too strong. And they're like I don't like this and it's actually not a peak pose but it's a very great thermometer exercise in Pilates, barometer exercise. It tells...(Brad: thermometer.) Yeah, well it just tells you I believe it tells you what you need to work on. But hey, that's me. So at any rate, you'll want to check out that and get your tickets at opc.me/event...(Brad: Yeah, don't wait up on that) well because once we're live, it's full price. So, just, there's your threat. Okay, and then and then we're going to be, we're really soon going over to UK and it's so exciting. We had the mullet tour so business workshops in the morning, Pilates workshops in the afternoon, so fricken stoked about this, if there are any seats left you can find that opc.me/uk But we, last time I checked we only had three so by the time this is I mean there might be sold out, but you should check because this will be our last time that UK for a bit, you know? we'll come back but I don't know when. Then, we come back from the UK, we kick some ass with our eLevators and then we are packing up the van with the dogs...(Brad: This is in August) yes August the month not our dog but we're also bringing him

Brad Crowell 4:33  

He just moved. He's like I heard my name. What is it?

Lesley Logan 4:37  

Anyways we are going to be rockin up through California and Oregon up to Seattle

Brad Crowell 4:43  

West Coast Summer Tour

Lesley Logan 4:44  

Yes we are, we have the, like, we kicked off the sales with like 12 events which is, I think is the most amount of spot like opportunities we see

Brad Crowell 4:54  

Actually the most we've ever decided to put in a tour. It's definitely gonna be a whirlwind because we're also doing it in only 15 days, I think. Normally we have three weeks and we do less cities so this is, like, dedicated

Lesley Logan 5:11  

You know what I am asking you the team I want when I leave the van each day I want the city to like, I want to have the city in front like I know where I am. So when I come in I don't go, What's up wrong city like I want to be like, ah, touch this city. So excited you guys this is actually a lot of fun. So we're hitting up some of those exotic cities. We're hitting up Redlands (...) and we're also going to be in Bakersfield and Fresno area. This is also called the Central Valley, we're going through Sacramento and then all the way up through Oregon to Seattle is probably like the, it actually has an airport. So there's that.

Brad Crowell 5:54  

Yeah, and we're, we're looking at other cities to to add to this tour, other locations like Spokane, Washington.

Lesley Logan 6:01  

By the time that this is dropping (...) still adding more 

Brad Crowell 6:04  

Hopefully we've already dialed all that in. Just go to opc.me/tour. And you can see the tickets will already be available. So if you're in any of those, we're even looking at St. George, Utah. So if any of those cities are where you're listening from or near, come meet us in person, we'd love to hang out, will be so fun.

Lesley Logan 6:24  

And also because the West Coast. Well, let's just say it, space is expensive out there. So that means that there's limited spaces in each of our classes and workshops to be nice and intimate. Which means like it's been a lot of time with you. I cannot wait to teach you.

Brad Crowell 6:41  

There aren't that many tickets. 

Lesley Logan 6:42  

That's exactly aka there's not a lot of spots.

Brad Crowell 6:47  

Join us on that opc.me/tour. September we're going to Poland and there's a conference there, it's a Contrology conference, Bounce Bodies participating. You know, go to contrologypilatesconference.com to grab a ticket for that. And then October we're going back to Cambodia and you all know how much we absolutely love being in Cambodia (...)

Lesley Logan 7:14  

Brad's sister also our project manager is bringing her new husband and it's not their honeymoon but I mean kind of, so we're like Sam and I, my assistant, were trying to plan like their flights and I was like you know like you have to ask them when they will find out but if they want to find to this day like maybe I got a bat bond with them while Brad works (...) literally because it was all dusty. But you guys this is a, Cambodia is a special place in this world, you must visit it at some point in your life. And honestly, you if you're going to, you may as well spend a week there and get to know yourself more, get to explore these temples in a way that no one else does. If you go on a regular tour, they put you on a bus they hit it and quit it. We explore we take our time and our tour guides they know how to use your phone better than you do, you'll have amazing photos. I swear to God, you are no, when we run into people been on our retreats are like oh my gosh, Peach taught me this and so I've been doing this on my phone. So, I just, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Make sure you come, go to lesleylogan.co/retreat to snag one of the last spots.

Brad Crowell 8:37  

Okay, now let's talk about Ripley Rader. With 10 years of experience, Ripley Rader is a visionary fashion designer who fearlessly challenges norms and empowers women through her unique creations. Her authentic approach and unwavering dedication have made her a true trailblazer in the fashion industry.

Lesley Logan 8:57  

Okay, I get to talk first. Okay, so I'm not getting like when she came across our, like, applications as like, I literally responded to, I was like, Is this the Ripley Rader whose pants I keep clicking on the ads just so they keep showing them to me? because I love being cookied, like cookies are my favorite thing about the internet. Like all of the ads, because I want to make sure they keep serving them to me. Because I never want to miss what her new stuff is. So, she's, you know, she's so, she's as cool, she's cooler than what I expected but honestly, like sometimes you like look up to these business people and you're like, I don't know if they're gonna be like that in real life. And then sometimes you meet them you're like, Oh, don't meet your heroes. This is the hero, fuck yeah, I want to party with, I want to hang out with, I want to like go shopping in her closet. So one of the things that I loved that she talked about is you can't chase the money because that is a cheap chase. So she's actually more committed to chasing growth. And she is focused on why she does this, which is that she wants women to feel like a boss in their clothes. And she really believes that she can help reach all women to feel more armored up and sexier, the better, right? So she's so much more focused on that goal. And then the money comes, which I, it kind of goes to we'll have an episode with Rory Vaden coming up, and he talks about that, too. It's like, so I don't want to talk about what he said. But like, it's, it's really important. I think it's really easy when you have bills to pay, when you're like, you're like, money's going out and not a lot coming in to like, start going, Okay, well get money over here. And it's like, every time we've chased money, we have been, like, that bit us in the ass, you know. So, so she also expressed in her beliefs and empowering women to give them permission to express themselves competently. And, for example, she says, like, it's, like, people, people are more likely to say that they're fat, like, I'm fat, oh, my goodness, like everything, like, oh my gosh, like, in fact, I had a client come to the house, she was visiting, and like, there was some things to say about herself. And I was like, you have to stop saying that here. That actually is not acceptable. And, and it's like, we, it needs to become more common knowledge, and this is what she said, to say on gorgeous, like, why can't we just say I look good? And why do you say I look good? That is that like, considered an arrogant thing? Or oh my gosh, that person's like, really full of themselves? Or?

Brad Crowell 11:22  

Well, it's like, you know, it's exactly somehow like, oh, I look like shit today is accepted. Where I look like a badass today is not

Lesley Logan 11:31  

well, you know, obviously, I say this. This is like, total sidenote, I was working on like doing a keynote speech. And the coach was like, Okay, well have a self deprecating comment. And I was like, I don't know. What do you mean? And they're like, self deprecating. It allows you to relate to other people. And I was like, why on earth? Should I be going up going up, I just tripped and fell on my face. Like, like, I just wouldn't, I couldn't grasp. Like, I don't like that self deprecation actually allows us to be more human around people. It can also, we can also be like, I feel really awesome in my outfit today. I look really good. And wouldn't it be awesome if that was so normal? Some of those you do look great. And by the way, I love this shirt that I'm wearing. What if we just (..) I love the shirt that I'm wearing and people might go, Yeah me too.

Brad Crowell 12:17  

With the positive instead of the negative.

Lesley Logan 12:20  

Yes, we just started doing that because

Brad Crowell 12:22  

 I had the worst. And I say, Oh, me too. Oh my god. Yeah. Instead, I had the best night's sleep. Oh, me too.

Lesley Logan 12:29  

And even if you had the worst night you can go, you know, I had the best cup of coffee. Like what if we (...) them a positive stuff? It's been really fun. What not when this stuff coming out. But prior to it. We're recording this on June 22. And we still have not hit 100 degrees in Las Vegas. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so crazy. And the commiseration of positivity every time we see like, can you believe this wheather?

Brad Crowell 12:53  

We don't know, everyone's like, this is so good.

Lesley Logan 12:56  

And then of course, everyone's all someone who's like, just think of how it's going to be in the other end. It's like, why am I saying that? So I just want to say there was enough of you listening, that if we can actually start like, admitting a positive aspect around ourselves that we do like, and there is something about you that you do like, and we could start saying that rather than like, this old thing, this thing's gonna look fat. I'm gonna, fuck off all that stuff. You are beautiful the way you are. And I know that that person left here, rethinking the words coming out of her mouth, and I'm so fucking proud about that. So anyways, what did you love that she said?

Brad Crowell 13:34  

I really loved that she said, the only person she's competing against in the fashion industry is herself.

Lesley Logan 13:43  

I thought that was really, I thought, I'm so glad she shared that.

Brad Crowell 13:46  

Yeah. And, you know, it goes back to the bigger is not necessarily better like that. You were mentioning what lights her up. She's chasing growth. But she had this really interesting comment that growth doesn't, grow in the company doesn't necessarily mean more money. And that's interesting. That's very interesting to me. Because, you know, if the only person you're competing against is yourself, then it allows that like, well, they skyrocketed to the moon, you know, and how can we're just, you know, the little engine that could that's plodding along and we're hardly, we're not seeing that quote, unquote, hockey stick effect of growth. Right. But if you're comparing you to you, then you just need to be better than you did before.

Lesley Logan 14:29  

(...) Jr. It's like, Am I Am I a percentage closer

Brad Crowell 14:33  

(...) percentage better every day 

Lesley Logan 14:35  

Yeah. You know, I was it was do we should I talk about this? Like, I know, you'd hear I would hear people say like, oh, I had a six figure launch. And this and you're like, oh, okay, and then you find out that they spent $90,000 on ads, and so they made 100

Brad Crowell 14:53  

You didn't talk about it

Lesley Logan 14:55  

So, so you'll hear people like you will think people are skyrocketing. Or you'll think they're king of a mountain of the mountain you're trying to climb. However, you don't actually know what the expenses that they are doing to make those things happen. And something that blows my mind is like, you'll hear people say the six, six figure launch their $100,000 launch, but then they spent $90,000 to get there. So they made 10 grand. So if I spent $1,000, and I had a $35,000 launch,

Brad Crowell 15:27  

or even a 10, you know, like, $11,000 launch, you made the same time

Lesley Logan 15:31  

We made the same 10 grand, technically on the same fucking mountain, right. So. So I think it's just really important that if you do only compare yourself to yourself, you don't get distracted. And you also we all going back to like, (...) on negative stuff. We always put people on pedestals. Yeah. And they don't put themselves on that pedestal, you put them there

Brad Crowell 15:52  

Yeah, that's true. I really loved her attitude towards, you know, people who are like, actually competition technically for her, you know? She said, Yeah, I guess we're all fighting for the same dollars in some ways. But her respect for them is so deep, that she feels more than competition, that actually gives her like a camaraderie like that they're all in it together.

Lesley Logan 16:16  

Also, like, here's the thing, if you see someone in your industry, having success, making money, it's actually a

Brad Crowell 16:25  

Should be a very good inspiration.

Lesley Logan 16:27  

Means it's possible for you, if you are in a place where you don't see anyone having success. Yeah, that is probably, it's like, it's like you're in the fax machine industry. If you are the, if you're the best.

Got this new idea.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, it's, you have to see these people that are achieving things that you wish were your achievements as inspiration of what's possible for you. Yeah, almost like it's opening the doors. Because, you know,

Brad Crowell 16:58  

It also really reduces that community like that competition thing. You know, when you're not like, first off, you're not beating yourself up for not quote, unquote, being where they are, whoever they are. Yeah, you know, and secondly, it actually shifts everything instead of being an enemy. They can become community, a friend, right? So we were big, we're super big on community, not competition. If you can look at the other people who are, you know, many of the people listen to this are in the Pilates world. And y'all know that we are facing this unbelievable, uphill battle of like, negativity, and like this fear based decision making inside of our own community, where people feel like, Oh, my God, you're going to take my clients, like, Fuck you, I'm never gonna be friend, it's a weird thing.

Lesley Logan 17:46  

The studio owners who are treating their staff, like they're already going to steal from them. And then their staff is feeling like they're not respected by them or trusted. And so no one is actually excited to be there. 

Brad Crowell 17:59  

We are anti that attitude altogether. And we truly do believe that every single person out there who's teaching and running a small business, there are enough clients to make the money that you want to make. And here's the other crazy thing, what she mentioned, and I'm listening to a book right now that's talking about the same thing called profit. First is why grow your business? Why? What is this idea of growth? Right? And like, growth, just for growth sake, okay, cool. So you had $100,000 in sales, but you spent 90 of it to get there, or you had maybe a modest $20,000 in sales, but you only spent 1000 to get there you made 19, they only made 10, right? Wouldn't you rather have more profit, more growth in that area than, like, just growth for growth's sake, right?

Lesley Logan 18:53  

I think that also there's like The Psychology Of Money, it's like, you know, that there's, that's a great book as well. So we have to get both of these authors on however, It's true, like, you need to know why you're growing, and then focusing on like, I think also, like, you learn a lot about yourself when you go into business. 

Brad Crowell 18:53  

Well, with that idea in mind, you know, when we're looking at our quote, unquote, competition out there, you know, and if we're happy with our business and what it is that we're doing, and we are making the money that we want to make, yes, of course, we should still continue to pursue growth, but, you know, instead of like freaking out that they, you know, are growing at a different rate than we are, we're still in a good position, and we're enjoying what we're doing. And we're growing, you know, yeah. And we also, like you said earlier, might not have all the big pictures in pieces of the equation. You know, they might be growing because they gave 50% their company to a private equity firm, who gave them $2 million and said, Go spend that on ads. 

Lesley Logan 20:00  

Oh, you don't know, I think I just want to bring up this one point that is like she prioritizes her mental health by setting boundaries. And if you are aware that when you see other people having success, you're like, you're having this, like green eyed monster come out, right? You don't have to block them. But you can, you can mute them and give like, these apps now allow you to mute people for 30 days or whatever. And like you, you can still be cheering them on as a follower, but like, not actually facing it. Because, look, let's be real, there are certain times of my year where I'm like, honestly, I'm exhausted. And you've been struggling to get this thing to be finished, and you look like finished three things. It's not you, it's me, and I'm gonna mute you, because you're not bringing me joy right now. But I want to have joy for you. So I need to like put you over there so I can cheer you on. So it's okay to like prioritize your mental health and understand where you are in your space so that you can show up for yourself and strengthen that muscle where when you see other people having success, you can cheer them on, like, if you're not in that space, acknowledge that and then go work on that without it being in your face. 

Brad Crowell 21:11  

Yeah. Yeah. She, you know, she did talk about that, stepping back, emphasizing that doing so doesn't mean that you don't love those people, or that you love them any less, it just means that you are prioritizing yourself right now. You know, you're vulnerable. And that's, you know, it's okay. We go through phases.

Lesley Logan 21:29  

Yeah. I mean, like, it isn't even a business like oh, my gosh, if you like are in a recent breakup, and the people around, you're getting engaged, of course, you're excited for them. And like, you're like, I'm excited for you. But like, it's okay to be like to grow, oh, this is a sign of something that I want for myself. Sure. And so go look into that and explore that and put it in your journal. And you know, you don't have to like, make it a big deal. But I anyways, can you get off of this? I could have let this interview go on longer. I just frickin loved her. And I hope I get to hug her in real life.

Brad Crowell 22:11  

So finally, let's talk about those Be It action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Ripley Rader? She said something that I, I like, but I also, I'm 50/50 on this one. But she said, do more yourself. And I'm like, I think that it's great to get started by doing more yourself. But I think that we should put boundaries even on that, or you end up in the Enneagram three, loves to sit, meaning, myself, of I'll just do it all myself. Right. And so I think, like, I want to kind of put a little bit of a box around this, do more yourself, get the project, started yourself, understand it and decide if it's something that you really need, and then figure out how to replace yourself in that project. But she's, she's talking about embracing that DIY mindset. And in her case, it was the website. And she said, I built my own website. I knew I only had to build it one time. And I was like, people told me oh, you can't do that. And she's like, Well, I sure can. And they did they build it. Now, I have a feeling today, she probably has people on her team who helped her maintain that website, who helped her add new products to that website. But when she was originally getting started, she did it herself.

Lesley Logan 23:34  

I so I agree. I actually didn't mind the do more yourself. I do think that some of our listeners that they will just do it all themselves, and then they overwhelm themselves and then they don't know how to let go. But I do think that like, what becomes an obstacle for a lot of people getting started is they need, they're like, oh my god, the website's gonna be so expensive. Oh, my God, this is gonna be so expensive. And so they put an obstacle so

Brad Crowell 23:56  

I think from that perspective, too, you know, like the like, well, I have to hire someone to build my website. That's five grand, then I have to hire someone to do this, then that's this, like, not necessarily, you can do these things yourself.

Lesley Logan 24:07  

Yeah. So I think it's really important if you are someone who has not taken on this, this idea that you have because you are waiting to have the money or to meet the person who can do the thing. I love it. Do more yourself. If you are Brad, hire more people.

Brad Crowell 24:22  

I'm the opposite. I have the tendency to, to never let go of things. And so it's actually...(Leslye: he becomes the bottleneck.) Yeah, I became the bottleneck. Yeah, yeah. So but what I really did appreciate about what Ripley said is that if you feel the call to do it, you're probably intrinsically positioned to do the job.

Lesley Logan 24:46  

I also think that that's true. I think sometimes we see things and we're like, oh, I don't have the skill set. Like somebody was DMing me yesterday, like, because I want to open a studio. I'm like, Well, I don't even know how to do that. And I was like, You're gonna figure it out. You want to do this thing, people who are not as smart as you have done it before. So like, don't let not knowing how to do something stop you from doing the thing. Do more yourself. You know, I think that that I think it works really well. But you need to know something about you. If you are someone who is going to do it all and then burnout and resent everything and quit. You need to you need at least someone to help you. Yeah. And if that's someone doing your groceries in your laundry, okay, great...(Brad: Yeah, what about you?) Okay. So, she actually talked about, like, don't be afraid to it's like, it's kind of like, don't be afraid to do things on your own. So like, there's do more yourself. And then also, on your, I find a lot of people want to have a business partner. And, y'all, that's a marriage. And, and I think that is a cop, like there's imposter syndrome there. And it's like, well, I need or they want the accountability there. So. So she was like, Don't be afraid to take something on. It's not it might not be great or perfect, but you'll get it done. And you'll learn from it. And then the next time, I'll get more perfect or be better. And you shouldn't detour from taking action. You can gain valuable insights. And there's knowledge, every failure in air quotes we've ever had, has provided so much. In fact, the things the biggest launch we ever had taught us very little. I will say this

Brad Crowell 26:20  

Our biggest launch told us that we could do that but like the process of launching, no, it was a mess.

Lesley Logan 26:25  

And also, and also, when we have like had things that we thought would go well do badly. We're like, oh, well, we didn't need like the messaging. Let's look at the messaging. Let's look at this. And it forced us to look at things and see like, where we could have done better. And then we've been better because of it. But the things that like just nailed it. They actually taught us very little. And so when they stop working, we don't know what to fix. And so I really am with her like it's really cool. To first of all, it's okay to go it alone. Like you can be the business person, I don't care if you don't think that you're a leader, you are, everyone's born with these skill sets, there's, go to Strength Finders, and that they found that there's not one type of person that makes up a leader. It's actually just how you use your skill sets. So don't be afraid. And then it's okay. You'll hire people when you're ready. But you will learn more from making mistakes. And if you are like, No, I want to wait till I find a person who I just met on the street and they have the same goal as me and now we're gonna be in business together.

Brad Crowell 27:26  

Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, the entrepreneur in me says, make the mess yourself. And then go back and clean it up, make it a systematic approach, and then replace yourself in that process, right? Because here's, what we're talking about here, don't be afraid to do things on your own. One of the biggest takeaways of me, trying to figure out our bookkeeping, is that now I can have an intelligent conversation with our bookkeepers. Yeah, like I know what they're talking about. They know what I'm talking about. I can make a suggestion like we can actually have an intelligent conversation. Am I a bookkeeper? I'm not a very good bookkeeper. But at least I understand the process now.

Lesley Logan 28:09  

Yeah, I think so. I love that. Ripley, you're phenomenal. Thank you so much for being you. And, Oh, you guys, I really honestly, like, I thought her stuff, her pants came on the market, like on the radar, like, I don't know, a couple years ago and that she like just took off. And then in the conversation, I discovered that like she sold them at Fred Segal, US Fred Segal back then it's, this is like, she's been around a long time working her ass off to get the fame that she's at right now. And so you guys

Brad Crowell 28:39  

In fact, there's a Forbes article about her saying I'm the 10 year overnight success.

Lesley Logan 28:45  

Yeah. So truly, truly anytime you think someone's an overnight success, there is an entire iceberg below the surface. You've not seen where they've just been. 

Brad Crowell 28:52  

Yeah, I love to hear it. Oh, geez. She said, we call ourselves the ducklings because on the on the pond on the surface we all just look like our heads are looking around. But underneath we're frantically moving our feet and she said it's not fear based stress base. It's but we're working our asses off down there.

Lesley Logan 29:09  

I couldn't agree more about that. Great. Yes, fellow duckling right over here. Ripley, thank you so much. Everyone, How are we going to use these tips in your life? We want to know and we want you to tag us, launch integrity at pod, tag Ripley Rader and tell her what your takeaways were. I know she'll love reading them. I'm Lesley Logan. 

Brad Crowell 29:28  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 29:28  

Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 29:28  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 29:28  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 29:28  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 29:28  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 29:28  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 29:28  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 29:28  

 Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

This episode is a must-listen for fashion enthusiasts, aspiring entrepreneurs, and anyone seeking inspiration to unleash their own passion. Delve into the world of Ripley Rader and discover how she fearlessly followed her passion, defying conventional norms and redefining women's fashion along the way.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How to believe in yourself and what you are offering.
• How to stay on top of your vision as your company grows. 
• Why you should not play the comparison game. 
• How to find your individual purpose and freedom. 
• How to stay in the present and not distracted by the future.
• Is the DIY mindset okay for business?

Episode References/Links:

• Shop Ripley Rader on IG
• Follow Ripley Rader on IG
• Ripley Rader Website
• Ripley Rader Camp Rocky Road Podcast

Guest Bio:

Ripley Rader is the founder of a clothing brand focused on empowering women to feel strong and unique. Her inclusive sizing and commitment to American-made production reflect her mission of making women feel good as they look. Featured in The Today Show, Forbes, and Vogue, Ripley's line has gained popularity among celebrities and everyday women alike. With a vision to embrace core values and empower women, Ripley continues to design clothing that inspires confidence and encourages women to embrace their badass selves.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript:

 Ripley Rader 0:30  

You can't overthink it. I think people are conditioned to think that conditions have to be perfect. It's ridiculous. Like, just do it. Like, there's nothing, think about it less than do it. If you're being called to do something, do it. You know? Yeah, that's the thing. 

Lesley Logan 2:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Okay, loves. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, you are not looking at twin sisters. However, I do think that our guests this week Ripley Rader and I do have some genes that can be shared because, oh my God, there's just so much that I love about this episode. I'm gonna have a hard time picking it out. But there's some little nuggets in here, you're gonna want to rewind, hit again, there's one towards the very end before we go into the ad break that I'm like, Oh, yes, yes to all of this. So, I'm so excited to have this guest on because she's a brand I see all the time. And she's one of these brands that I've like looked at, and I thought like, oh my god, like she's just getting, I remember her. I remember hearing about her 10 years ago. And now here she is just everywhere. She feels like she's everywhere. She's still growing. And it's just so fun to hear the journey and meet the maker behind something and also get honest advice from someone in the world who's doing their thing. And I think too often the world of Instagram and all these people trying to tell you like "be yourself," you know? just do it. Like, how? That's why this podcast exists. How. and I want the honest truth behind it. And you're gonna get that from today's guest. So Ripley Rader is our guest, she is the founder of those amazing pants that are always showing up in your feeds, and you are gonna look like a badass and then you're gonna hear why she's so obsessed with that. And I think, I think this is gonna be one of my favorite episodes you have, is one of my favorites. So, thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you very, very much for sharing the episodes. They are how, honestly, you sharing the episodes is how we get more listeners, how we can continue to get guests that inspire you to take messy action ditch perfection and Be It Till You See It. Here's Ripley.

All right, Be It babe. I have fabulous guest. I'm gonna be really honest. When this person came across my radar, I was like, Is this the person whose pants are in my feed every single day? Because yes, I do want to talk to this amazing woman. I love to talk to women who have like taken an idea and then not only made it into fruition, but have like, somehow, you know, become omnipresent in our lives. Because these are the women that we can all learn from. So Ripley Rader, thank you so much for being our guest today. Can you tell everyone who you are? And in case they haven't heard of you, what you do?

Ripley Rader 4:06  

I, well, that's like the nicest introduction. So thank you for that. You're also my agent. My name is Ripley Rader. I am the founder and CEO of Ripley Raiders, same name, brand name, we sell women's contemporary clothing. We're particularly known for our pants. So, So, yes, but we are we are American made, American founded, ethically produced company, proudly.

Lesley Logan 4:34  

That's also not easy to do.

Ripley Rader 4:37  

No, no, not easy to do. And not easy to do at our price point even though it is a little higher than some others. But yes, we, it's something, it's like a, it's something that's very important to me, and I won't bend on it.

Lesley Logan 4:48  

Yeah, I love that. I mean, like, I mean, we can go so many places, but the earlier this year, our websites were, our servers were attacked. And so all of our websites went down, the whole thing, and like it was, yeah, so insert like vomit gag, like all the chills, I just died. And they were done for six days. And so it's just like daily, like, Okay, you still not up. Okay, so here's another email. Here's another post where I'm like, Hey, guys, thanks. But it was the values of transparency, authenticity, consistency, like, all the values that we like, you put together that was like, Okay, well, these are our values, and we have to live through them right now. And how do we get people that are on classes, and how do we do this so that like, they don't have to be on the website, like getting creative and using the values. And so I love that you're like, I'm not going to bend on this, it must be ethically produced and must be here, and we have to get a price point that is achievable. Even if it is on the higher end. I think that like, it makes it easier to know what to say yes and no to?

Ripley Rader 5:49  

Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, you know, what's right for you. And that's something people always say, they used to say to me, when you get big, it's not gonna. And I'm like, Well, we're big. So we're still doing it. So I don't know what to say to you. Like, maybe you just, you know, you start your own company somewhere else. But with this, we we really stand true to it. We're proud of it. 

Lesley Logan 6:10  

Yeah. So let's like go into that. Like, I mean, obviously, being a woman CEO. It's still a rare thing, unfortunately. And then, of course, you are told things like, Oh, well, you can do that now. But when you get bigger, you can't do that. So how, how did you kind of basically go, I'm going to do this anyways? And then kind of how do you handle facing that kind of adversity?

Ripley Rader 6:30  

Well, I have delusional self esteem. And I think that a bunch of idiots have started companies and become really successful. And so my whole thinking is, if one person has done it, there's not a reason I couldn't do it as well. And I'm not afraid to learn as I go. So, someone, I just resigned on someone relatively new in a position and she goes, I'm learning I'm so sorry. She was apologizing. I'm just getting the row, I'm just figuring out the ropes. And I was like, we're all just figuring out the ropes at whatever level you're at. So if you're, if you can be vulnerable enough to be like, I'm just learning this, I don't know what I don't know, and, and learn it, whether it's YouTube, whether it's like I learned, I had, in the very beginning, when I started shooting during the pandemic, when I had to scale back financially. I like went on YouTube to go, how do I use a camera. And then I had in my, then I had incredible mentors come forward, like, Ripley, let me teach you. But I think that there's a willingness to learn is the key to listen to yourself and then learn and not be there's no shame in that. Like, there's no shame in not knowing what you don't know. And, so, then, with no shame, then you don't feel constantly small. Because there's an earnestness in building a business and I'm just as proud as the business 10 years ago, I started 10 years ago, as I am now. I'm also I'm prouder of that person. My life is much easier now. It's bigger now. But the grind was eight years ago when like, I couldn't get arrested by anybody. And, you know, you just keep doing it. And now it's a lot different. But I think that that's, you know, I also just don't listen to many people. I have, like four people I listen to.

Lesley Logan 8:22  

So okay, that's yes. Okay. I, I, we, I as someone who's on like, I'm on YouTube, I'm on all things and we gotta coach a lot of businesses and like, Oh, my God, these people are so mean to me. And I'm like, Are they on your list of people you listen to? Because if they're not you gotta go, they're hurting. Like they're not like, you cannot take that in, because you could, and then on the flip side, you could, there's so much information out there, you could be listening to 17,000 coaches for free between Instagram, and YouTube. And so I love that you're like, I have these four people look like I get advice from and that's where I go, that had to be really, it's hard, kind of hard to turn out, turn up the noise. But then once you can do it, it really helps pave the way

Ripley Rader 9:08  

It is. And I listened to, I mean, in some ways, we listened to anyone, when I was three years into the business, I brought on my husband to help and so he is running operations. And we talk all the time about people want to pitch us ideas and stuff will listen, but we don't absorb. I mean we sometimes there'll be something and we'll be like ooh, that's a little gem. Everything else you're saying is complete crap. But that momentary like flash of brilliance will take but nothing like you say nothing permeates except if someone of it truly is about four people. If they say something I listen, one of which is my 18 year old intern. She is absent now. Now I brought her on as a full on assistant, she's brilliant and smart and thinks outside the box and isn't limited by what happens to you when you become an adult. So she's one of the ones but I mean, I don't think it has to be like, not actually none of the people who are my touchstones are like business advisors. They're just people I really deeply trust and know have my back.

Lesley Logan 10:15  

Yeah. I love that you have been 18 year old and I think I wish that we all had one just like, where are the 18 year olds? 

Ripley Rader 10:23  

They're amazing. And they're gonna save us Gen Z's or Gen Z's run my whole company, everyone under, besides me, I'm 42. everyone else is like 26 and under.

Lesley Logan 10:35  

I love it so much. Yeah, yeah, we would, so my husband also came on now as a CEO. So like I was, everyone was calling me the CEO. And I was like, why am I in all these meetings? Like, Well, you're the CEO. And I'm like, so I'm the ideas person. And when I heard Seth Godin go, no, there was like a CVO, there's a chief visionary officer, like, that's me. That's my job.

Ripley Rader 10:58  

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 10:59  

You do the meetings. You can be the CEO, and you can hire all the people. Yeah, I'm gonna be over here with my ideas. I want to go back because you said something, and I want to highlight it. You have been doing this for 10 years. I, I want to highlight that, because I think so many people are seeing you everywhere seeing the amazing product you put out. And they're thinking she just blew up. She's an overnight success. It happened in the last couple of years that I'm paying to my app paid into my ads. That's not true. You've been working your tail off for 10 years, probably more. And, and you said, like, that the version of you eight years ago, like my gosh, that what she had to do. You're so proud of like, what? How is it like to like, just be like, holding the torch like, Hey, listen to me, arrest me by my pants? How was that to get to where you're at now you have an 18 year old who can help you do the things?

Ripley Rader 11:55  

I think this goes back to a really deep belief in yourself and what you're offering. So I'm as proud of my products today, as I was eight years ago. I have the same pride in them. And I know they're good. And I haven't changed anything from eight years ago. You know, like, it's the same products. I mean, of course, additional ones. But I think that it's a matter of like, I just I think that you have to have delusional self esteem, a delusional belief in yourself and in your product. And, and that, and you have to be sort of tilted to it. Like, I forgot, who said that, I didn't, I didn't, that's a quoting of someone brilliant that I'm blanking on. But it's this idea of being mildly obsessed with what you do. And knowing that like, not being popular then had nothing to do with who I was, I just needed, I just needed to be, I needed more people to know me. And I knew if they knew me, my brand, they would love it, they would love them. And so I just sort of stayed true to that. So I really didn't let it affect my thought of who I was or who you know, whatever. And I just kept thinking, if more people and that's when marketing is wonderful, where they you and it's the truth now that we are out to so many people. I have to respond all the time to people on Instagram. And a lot of times it's me responding because we're just growing our team in the past two years, we've exploded so we don't have enough people to do everything. So I have people obviously on my team responding to customer service, but like we can't get to everything. So it'll be me personally responding going, We are not some Instagram marketing company. We are like a tiny team were our corporate team is a team of, including shipping and receiving, 10 people that's including me, like any C suite people, any creatives any operations, like and then of course we have, you know, we have our factories and our you know, other teams subcontracted. But, we're small, we're small but mighty. And so I think because of that, I tried to show that there's humanity, because I think we're all conditioned to be like, where's my thing and 28 hours? I mean, it's like, ridiculous, you know. And so when I remind people that there's humanity in this, there's nothing more personal than a business. outside yourself or your family like you. There's, I want to say to each of my clients, like every pair of pants that you buy, like helps our community and the money goes back into the community and back into America. And, and, and people are building homes and, you know, education for their children and that really means something.

Lesley Logan 14:58  

Also in my own Instagram and I'm in the comments of all of them. And, and it's really interesting when I respond to people because they're like, I can't log into this thing. And I'm like, Well, we do have customer support, like, we, there exists. But of course, in the day and age of social media, they're like, I can't log in, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. And they're like, Oh, hi. And I'm like, it's Okay. 

Ripley Rader 15:19  

Like, we're human.

Lesley Logan 15:21  

I can't help you, actually, because I'm not the tech person. But here are like, three things you should try right now. And also, here's two places to reach my tech team, and then let me know that you're in so I can like, note that and it's that humanity, bringing that to your business is so key, because I think people also want to know, they matter. I mean, it's probably why you created your line. It's like, it's not just to build a pant that didn't exist in the world, it's to because it's because you want every woman who's wearing them to feel like they matter. They're the most beautiful, most confident, most amazing person in their own world. And so, you know, having humanity in your business is not easy, and especially as it grows, there are certain things like I was talking to someone yesterday, like, oh, how do we get you more out of the business so you could do these things over here? I'm like, full, there's some things I just don't want to let go of yet. Like (...)

Ripley Rader 16:10  

Like Sara Blakely, wasn't she, I mean, she was involved with Spanx hands on till the very end, till she quit. And she was she was like the main negotiator for the set for the sale of it. So like, this concept that you have to let things go, of course, things need to get delegated. But what you value, you should stay on top of. That's what I think.

Lesley Logan 16:37  

I agree. And I'm like, and I think I fight I have as far as like, I was like, I realize I'm fighting to be this busy with these things. But these things don't bother me like writing the newsletter to my, to the people who've given us their email, like that's a big deal. That's their email. They're saying, yes, you can email me. I'm gonna write that right now. And I love it. I love writing to them. I love that thing. And yes, it does take my time. But I'd rather that than like they're getting an email from somebody who's trying to be me.

Ripley Rader 17:05  

Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, I'm really involved in that as well. And I, you know, that's really important. It's really important. 

Lesley Logan 17:12  

So how do you so you, I mean, also like, seeing an idea through to fruition, and like, now, here we are 10 years into it. Like, what are some things that you do to keep your eye on the vision of what you've been wanting to grow? Because also, I think, like, at some point, like you got there, right, like, people are wearing your pant, you've blown up really. Like, did you like go back to the drawing board of like, okay, what's the next step? Like, what's the next thing? It's next mountain we're going for? Or are you still working towards the same goal?

Ripley Rader 17:40  

I am never satisfied, I am on fire all the time to an obsessive degree. And so I've always got more ideas on where we can go. And and so that's part of my fire, I think. And then I have to have a team around me who's like, okay, it's not if, it's how do we do it, and good timing, like, I'm not going to create a new big launch in the middle of another launch. Like, I'm not going to launch something fun and exciting and fire building in the middle of like, my pre fall launch. So we're on a calendar, and then within that calendar, I go, how do I grow the company? How do I reach more people, and you know, in some fashion worlds, they do fashion shows, and they do that sort of world. I don't play in that circle. For me, as a, you know, a self funded company, that financially it's just not on the table. I'd rather you know, I'd rather that money go different places. And so but so I figure out where is it that I want to put my energy both in my brain and in my wallet, towards whatever I think will really benefit us. And also, like we have a new campaign coming out that's called it's like, it's our jumpsuit, which is my original piece. But no one knows I was only selling jumpsuits for the first like three years of the company. I make like the best jumpsuit in the business, but nobody knows it because they all know my pants. And so I've got this jumpsuit that we're relaunching as this like Sisterhood of the Traveling jumpsuit, we shot it on like five different women or 10, all different ages, all different sizes, you know, because hot is hot and and so it's like this, imagine an army of women not afraid to stand out the whole concept behind it. And that to me is something I can sink my teeth into. Those are the kind of like launches and fire and brand building that I can get behind rather than possibly at this point in our game, you know, spending an equal amount of money doing a fashion show or something. I mean, meanwhile, I just came from the Fear of God fashion show at the Hollywood Bowl and it changed my life, I wept. So I do believe there's value in it. But he's a few steps ahead of me. And so I think I, if you're gonna do it, you got to do it right. Like they did, Fear of God did and so it's a matter of like, okay, until I'm there. What can I do on my scale to sort of widen the viewership, you know, widen the women I get to dress?

Lesley Logan 20:21  

Yeah, I think that's also there's something about that kind of those kind of like limitations that get me a little bit excited, like, of course first I'm frustrated, I'm like, I want to do the thing. I want to do it. But then like, I find that the more limitations I've ever had, even though I hate, I hate them, I create something even better in that moment that I could have if it didn't exist. And so there's something about like, not seeing obstacles as like a stop sign, but rather like a way to like guide you and like challenge you in a way to take something to the next level. So I hear you, I think it's really important to so easy for us to see the people in front of us and like try to keep up with them and not realize like we can actually do a really freakin Good job wherever we are. And we can do it a unique way that hasn't been done before.

Ripley Rader 21:08  

Yeah, and you're just not in competition with anybody else. I mean, like, there are some incredible designers based out of LA, Heidi Merrick is one ALC is one. I mean, you have Mesa Los Angeles is one for Love and Lemons. These are incredible women who have started companies, and we all do different things. None of us, of course, like we're all fighting for the same dollars in some ways, but like, not, my respect for them is so deep that I feel more than any competition. There's just like, we're all sort of in it together. And so I really, I really don't play the comparison game with my brand. We have a no blame game and our company. Because we all mess up all the time, you know, and we don't compare. I will look at other people and go God, their work was so good. Or man Tory Burch is like fashion show down like New York City street was like the most incredible thing. But I can just respect that. And I just the comparison game will kill you, I just I won't. The only person I'm competing against is myself really on how to at this point how to continue to grow so we can continue to keep our staff and you know, that sort of thing. Like, I don't think I just I stay out of that, because I don't think it's healthy. You know? If I can just focus on me and what we do, and, and how to, I don't know, my own path is my path. And I just don't play with the, I don't. I mean, when I do I really try to step I mean, I'm not perfect. So there are days where I'm like, I have to unfollow or block mute this for 30 days. Like it's too much for me. Yeah, and it's wonderful. Yeah, it's like a, it's a wonderful thing I have, I work with a lot of teen girls. And, and I actually have a podcast where I interview them. And one of them was like, sometimes you just have to do it, you have to say what's important for my mental health and, and so and it doesn't mean that you love them any less. Whoever it is, it just means that right now you're feeling vulnerable, and you need to take a step back from it, because their victories are not your failures. But yeah, you know, yeah, but I think you have to, we're all human. None of us are perfect.

Lesley Logan 23:20  

Yeah, no, that's the whole reason the show exists. It's like being imperfect, taking the messy action, but I thank you for sharing that, like a you're not perfect. And also, you know, I think I agree. Like, we can't be in competition with anybody, like one of my girlfriend's her podcast is like thriving, and I had this impression that we like, start at the same time. I had this moment of like, Oh, my God, like, wow, I just really, I must have done something wrong along the way, like, you know, and then I looked, she started her podcast three years before me. So she should, she should be way ahead of me. Yeah, that is just a sign that like, Oh, time is also helpful in this world. So

Ripley Rader 23:59  

And you never know, like, so much of fashion is funded differently. And so you don't know if like, I don't know if a certain brand is, is owned a whole, like I own 100% of my company. A lot of brands that are bigger than me don't because they have a little bit more capital to throw into it. And so there are so many things at play that you're like, you don't that there's just so much that you're like, oh, it's not a fair game. It's not fair game. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 24:26  

Okay. So we, we do business coaching for fitness instructors, and they're like, Well, I charged with this what everyone else is charging. I'm like, you don't know if they own the building. You don't even know if they're profitable. You don't even know if they're doing this for charity out of the kindness of their heart, you have no idea if they're, they just have family wealth. And so this is like the way they kick the time around. You have to go off of your game

Ripley Rader 24:47  

but you just has nothing to do with anybody else. That's the thing. I think if we can constantly remind ourselves that like that it's really just about you and your purpose. And if you can come I instantly go back to what's my purpose? What's my purpose, then you have this, like, freedom. And you talked about boundaries earlier. And it's like, you know, when directors get to make a movie with no budget, it usually sucks. Like, no budget limitations, or, you know, most of my I'm married and I even think of my friendships like there's, there's boundaries in that, and whatever the agreements are, and whatever agreements you decide to make with your partner, or your friends or whatever, but within that you can thrive. And so it gives me I love it. Like, I have to say, I really have enjoyed, I decided not to take outside funding years and years ago, and because of that, I've been like when other people, you know, go like this straight up, I'm like, the little engine that could behind them. And, and I think because of that, I had to step out of the circus, I had the comparison game, because I knew I could not compete with people whose funding included, like, you know, an empire that you're getting to use, you know, and so I just, I didn't play, I don't play that game.

Lesley Logan 26:07  

Yeah, I, I think that like, it's, I mean, it's not if some if you're listening, and you took an investment your business like, game on like,

Ripley Rader 26:17  

oh, I want you to like, please, I think but for me, it was something that what happens in fashion often is if you get an outside investor, you lose some creative control. And I did not want that. And so and so that is the reason primarily that I didn't take outside funding, because I didn't want to lose the creative control. Now I know a lot of people who have outside funding and they're still absolute chief creative officer and their word, but I I'm pretty I mean, I was a Broadway dancer, like and singer like, up to I didn't go to school for fashion or anything. I just made my own clothes my whole life. And so I I don't know about the fashion world at all. So I didn't want like, I can't pretend to know, so I just don't play the game. I just stay out of it. Like, I always laugh. We could be selling hammers like we're just it happened. I care more about making women feel great. Because looking great as easy. It's how you feel in your clothes that matter.

Lesley Logan 27:16  

What oh my gosh, okay, so I want to go to you didn't go to fashion school. You just have recently made your own clothes. There had to be some Be It Till You See It moment. And like, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna go make clothes and I'm gonna make a business like...

Ripley Rader 27:33  

well, it was interesting because I like being it, It's funny because for acting and singing, I was it was total Be It Till You See It, it was like, I've got my eye on the prize and blah, blah. But with with fashion, it was like, I made my own clothes, and I swore I would never make clothes for other people because sewing was one of my greatest joys and I didn't want to ever have to impress or please other people with my sewing or my designs. Cut to 10 years ago, I'm at a concert in maybe 12 years ago, I met a, no 10, I'm at a concert in Vegas wearing a jumpsuit I made in this woman who had by Fred Segal, which is arguably the best boutique in Los Angeles. Maybe the country, said, Well, I own a store at Fred Segal. If you make in America, and you can make this for this price point. I'll sell you I'll give you the launch you want.

Lesley Logan 28:19  

Oh my god. I used to run a store inside of Fred Segal. No way. Yeah, inside of Santa Monica store.

Ripley Rader 28:25  

Do you know Roxanne silk Joy Davis. So Joy is one of my dearest friends now. But she said to me if you do this, I will sell you and she's like you I need three three different jumpsuit colors because I only made jumpsuits and I need two sizes. Oh I did first size and I did a tight like I did a small and an extra small because...

Lesley Logan 28:49  

Oh my gosh. Okay, so I left Fred Seagal to go become a Pilates instructor. And that was really I didn't want to but like I was getting so busy teaching but like it was so hard for me to let go because y'all at, so back in the day you see a mall without walls, I don't know what happened when they sold. But I worked for Ice Accessories. And not to be confused with the I seen very different thing. This is like high end amazing jewelry, amazing bags, all the things, and also from one of the like top retailers like the retail like lords of the world. And so I was learning so much and I got 40% off every store in

Ripley Rader 29:31  

Heaven heaven, any store! 

Lesley Logan 29:33  

I was like oh look at those jeans over there at the denim bar. Like, I love the denim bar. So that's crazy. So you're in Vegas, you're wearing your thing. This person's like I want you to make this for me and so you do, you end up in the most amazing, hottest spot to be we're like literally celebrities are going and like doing their own shopping. And then what happened?

Ripley Rader 29:54  

was like that she said that to me and I looked into it a little bit and then, a week later, I was at a party and the fashion editor for LA magazine, Linda Immediato. She came up to me because I was pretty broke at the time. So I'm wearing the same jumpsuit that I had made. And she goes, where do you get it? Because I would get stopped by women everywhere. And I said, you know, it's funny, Linda, I made it and I think I might launch it, Fred Seagal, this is so crazy. I'm like a Broadway, I've just made clothes for myself, blah, blah. And she goes well, when you do, this is when blogs were very popular. She was like, I'll do a blog story on you. And so, and then I called it a few favors from my fancy red carpet celebrity friends, and they wore me and then but I went on Craigslist and found a found these guys. And they were they were like part of a gang I think, I don't know. But it was sketchy. It was like a really sketchy spot where they used to make my clothes. And because I never sewed my clothes for the masses. Like, I know, I can make clothes for myself, but I didn't have the kind of training or the machines that I needed to go commercial. So so so they made my first like 50 jumpsuits. I think I sold 50 jumpsuits and, you know, six months or a year or something. And now if I sell less than 50 a day, I'm mad, you know? it's like that thing. 

Lesley Logan 31:15  

Yeah, that is, what a story is. I love that because I think some people can get so caught up on like, Okay, I don't know the buyers, I don't know who this is, like, they caught up in the next steps, oh my God, and not caught up in like the thing that they could become obsessed with. And you weren't even really trying to but like you didn't, you didn't let the cart lead the horse. You're like, I love this jumpsuit. And I can make my own clothes. And oh, people are liking it. So I'm just gonna make this thing that they like.

Ripley Rader 31:41  

You can't overthink it. I think people are conditioned to think that conditions have to be perfect. It's ridiculous. Like, just do it. Like, there's nothing, think about it less than do it. If you're being called to do something, do it. You know? Yeah, that's the thing. 

Lesley Logan 31:58  

So what was the, like, so, then you go from being a performer, to being a business owner. And like, also, there's like, when you're selling wholesale, there's like all these terms. Some people pay upfront. Some people pay on delivery, some people pay 120 days later.

Ripley Rader 32:14  

Yeah, we don't do any of that. We're like credit card or nothing. You know, I think maybe one of our first accounts, we did a net 30 because I had a personal relationship with a buyer. But no, we didn't. It was funny, it was like, but I didn't you know, when I was starting, I didn't know margins. I didn't know anything. And I had, we had a sales rep rep us from the beginning on the East Coast. And she really taught us everything. She knew we had a really good product. And so she was like I think you guys have, and we just did jumpsuits at the time. So she was like, I really think that you guys have some legs. Let me sort of tell you how it should go. And we just listened to her word as gospel and like did this markup and this markup and, and I was like, I think we've got something here. And we were slow, we were the first couple years I think across the board and two years we got in like 100 boutiques, which is pretty big considering our slope like we weren't, you know, explosive everywhere. But then we slowly got reps all over the country to rep us and just in the past like two years, three years we've gotten like what I believe to be like the dream team of reps across the country repping us and so we are and we don't do deals that are crappy. I don't care if it's, you know, the best boutique in quotations or best major store. We don't do things that won't make us money. 

Lesley Logan 33:42  

So you guys, you have to understand what that means you have to like that to like put that on your board and keep it as gospel because I was when I was in retail so I started retail in 2002 and wasn't until 2010 and there'll be peace designers who just want I won't say the name of the shop given other clothes but let's I don't need them to come after me. There's just been particular shop in Hollywood that is well known for never paying, they would never pay and I would have designers would we'd sell their stuff at our store. And they would literally have to go in to the shop and just steal their own product back because they never got paid and if you and they wanted so badly to be seen in the store because that's where like the paparazzi were at the time which was a big deal like all these things. And they sold they had this idea that if they're in there, they're gonna make it and it actually cost them some of them it cost them the opportunity to grow because they didn't have any of the money and they didn't get any of the thing

Ripley Rader 34:38  

Yes, you have to have. That's why we don't do net 30. Why we take a credit card because we you know have a pretty good business mind and so does my husband and you know, I love art. If I just wanted to make art I would be making art on the Lower East Side and like you know, living in a garage somewhere but ultimately I want to dress a ton of women. And to do that means I have to grow and make really smart choices and the people we hire want to be able to pay them and like have them know that they can depend on it and grow their lives around it. And so like this is, you can't Yeah, that's what you can't, you can't get caught up in the glitter and bullshit of any business, there's always going to be something someone telling you that you're not capable of doing something or you need XYZ to make it happen. I'm like, until today, or until like this past week, actually, I've done my entire website, then, when we had three people a month to three people a second. And there are so many people who was like, oh, you can't do your own website. It's like, Yes, I can. Like, I bet you can't like and I think that's, that goes back to the belief in one's ability. One's abilities and capabilities.

Lesley Logan 35:54  

Yeah, oh my gosh, I like I'm like, listen to takeaways in my head already. Because it's, it's so important to not let people scare you out of your own ideas. Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm sure you had many people who probably told you, you can't do this. You can't do that. Or like, overwhelm you with like, the, like, the obstacles that will be in the way which there will always be, but like, my goodness.

Ripley Rader 36:18  

I know, we had someone come in, we just took over the top floor of our building downtown. LA our views are like, literally, I mean, they're 360 views. And it's insane. And this woman came up and she's like, it's going to be so hot up here. Because, you know, they're all building. So just open the windows, and we have fans. But I wanted to say that's what you're that's the comment you're making. Not I can't believe this insane space, like, good job. You know, I think that we so quickly go to the struggle. I don't go to the struggle. I tried to not that I'm Pollyanna, but I think it's like, for example, women can, it's socially acceptable for women to say I'm fat, and everyone around her goes, No, you're not fat. No, no, no, you're not fat, you're gorgeous, whatever. But it's not socially acceptable for a woman to go, I look fucking incredible in this outfit. And my whole thing is giving women permission to say aloud, I want to get a job I want to get laid. That's what somebody said to me once about getting my pants is that when they like wear my clothes, they could do it when they need to get a job or get laid. And that's the thing that sort of went viral. That was the ad that went viral. And I didn't say it, a client said it to me. But I thought to myself here we are giving voice to things like that, that are powerful, like so you know. So I think it's questioning this social norms, like, what really is true to you? And what are you driven to do? And when you're driven to do it, and you see something that needs to be addressed, then that is your calling to do it. At least that's what I live by.

Lesley Logan 38:02  

Yeah, I love that. Okay, what you mentioned already, but what are you about the new jumpsuits coming up? Is that what you're most excited about right now? Or is there something else up the pipeline that you're excited to work on?

Ripley Rader 38:13  

I mean, maybe that's the most exciting thing to me, because I it was like my baby, and I love this piece. And so I'm really excited to get that out there. I'm very, very excited for upcoming collection for fall winter, but I live in the future of the company. And so I'm actually designing SS 24 right now. So I'm like super excited. We had a fitting earlier today. And I'm like we have I'm super excited about this mess dress we have like I'm just like across the board. Like I'm like, excited for life and excited for growth. But I think probably, I think what I'm most excited about is being a brand that women have access to, to wear when they need to feel armored up. And I think that's all and I don't think that's what I think I'm most excited about is reaching. And that sounds like some back thing of like, I just want to get fucking huge. Obviously I want to do that I want to be like the next Donna Karan. But I think there is a level of really what is the underlying thing you're excited about as a business owner and it cannot be, I will not chase money. Because I don't. I don't. I've had so many years of not having money. Like I always, my husband and I joke about guacamole money like when will we have guacamole money where you don't think about the price of guacamole when you go out to dinner?

Lesley Logan 39:39  

As an ex LA person I know. 

Ripley Rader 39:41  

I mean that's the thing. Like we're like it's a very big deal because you're like $11 for, and you know and I think like you can't chase the money because that is a cheap chase. And so for me I really I am committed to chasing like, growth of the, I want women, I see the fittings like they come into our studio, and they walk in as some person. And then they walk out with their turtleneck and their wide leg pant and their oversized blazer, and they are a boss. And I'm like that, do you need that everyday for me, I do. I like being I like doing that every day. But there there is a moment in their life where they need that and, and like clothes, you can live at the surface or you can go deep, everyone from a CEO to a stay at home mom, we all want to feel armored up and sexy. And I think like no matter where you are like, the more women I can reach to make them feel that way, the better. That is like what that is what I'm most excited about all the time. Like I just It lights me up all the time. 

Lesley Logan 40:51  

Yeah, you're chasing this impact on the most amount of women as opposed to the dollars. And I totally understand that. And I think like it gets, it's really easy for anybody who's to like be obsessed with how much they're gonna make or if they're making enough, but it's like if you actually chase the impact, and you actually are like, how do I make sure that I'm like, doing as much of this thing that it affects more people than the money just actually comes as a byproduct of that, like, yeah, works out?

Ripley Rader 41:18  

Yeah, it's a byproduct. And also, like, I just want to be comfortable. Like, I don't need to have a ton of money, money, a ton of money goes through me a ton is relative, like, I sound like a Murdoch like money. A small amount of money moves through me as a business owner, and some of it sticks. Less than one less than one thinks like people are like you must be rolling. And it's like, well, it's like, it's rolling through me. Yes, of course. But not, you know, it's like things. It doesn't all stick. I wish we could all of our products like oh, like your sales. And I'm like, we don't people, like you get like 80% of your sales. It's like, oh my god, I would die. I mean, what would happen if we got? So I think there's a level of like, the bigger we get doesn't necessarily mean the more money we make, right? And I don't care. Like, I'm not going to drive the business into a hole. But that is not what drives me.

Lesley Logan 42:10  

Yeah, it's, we have we have products as well. And like, you know, people are like, Oh my God, you sold 300 decks like, I know that they can do a calculator in their head, like what that means. I'm like, so to print that.

Ripley Rader 42:22  

I met all the hours that it took to create.

Lesley Logan 42:24  

Yeah, oh my gosh, one of the things we made was I stopped counting over 300 hours of like, the time I just stopped was like, just don't even tell me because at that point, I'm not going to think that we're ever going to make a profit. So we're just gonna walk away from that right now. But like, it's the margins are real everyone. And I think like, I guess that's what you have to just really focus on, like, on the impact. And also like what you just said earlier, it's like, be obsessed, be a little bit delusional about what your idea is, because then it's more fun. And you actually can show up every day, whether it's good, whether it's bad, what obstacles are. Okay, I have one more quick question. Before we take a break. You mentioned that you spent like you're like in 2024 designing right now. I find that like, has it been sooner as well, I spent a lot of time in the future. And then I'm like, oh, today is what day is today. So what are some practices that you do to like, go oh, it is it's still only 23? And we're not even halfway through? Like, what how do you get present? Or are you still working on that?

Ripley Rader 43:22  

I mean, listen, I'm a I'm a total work in progress. I go into my office and I say why do we still have these on the rack and my husband or my team we'll say, Because that's the season we're in. We're in SS 23. Like, we're still selling these things. And I'm like, oh, that's why I also hired a creative operations lead, which helps me navigate what's happening now and what's happening in the future. But I think there's I think staying present is very, very difficult. I don't I don't have a wise thing to say about that. Except we're all works in progress. 

Lesley Logan 43:59  

Thank you, you know, when you're just like, am I the, am I, everyone looks so peaceful and calm. And I have the morning routine down, y'all. And I have told people that is the best. I love my three hours long, and it is all the things I want. And I still don't know what day it is.

Ripley Rader 44:12  

I mean, that's amazing. I think we call ourselves Little Ducks all the time, because we seem super cool. And then underneath the water, I am kicking so hard that like you wouldn't, and it's not anxiety, it's action. It's its ideas. It's movement. It's balancing all the balls in the air. But you know, we can all look as cool as cucumbers. But you know, anyone who's an entrepreneur is extraordinary hard worker, and there's no way around it because you can't fake it. Like I said to my PR team when I first hired them back in the day, we don't have them anymore, but they're amazing. But I said, you know when we get bigger, we're just gonna hand stuff up. She looks at me. And she goes, when you get bigger, you just work harder. And I was like, why? Really? She's like, Yeah, you just work harder and more. And she's like, it's awesome. But that's the truth. And I thought, Wow, no one had been shooting straight like that with me. So it was like an awesome thing to hear. I was like, Huh, okay, and to be honest, now that I'm on the other side. Very true. Very, very true.

Lesley Logan 45:16  

Oh, my gosh, Ripley, you are awesome. I feel like our paths probably crossed many a time. 

Ripley Rader 45:20  

And we look like sisters.

Lesley Logan 45:23  

I mean, we really do.

Ripley Rader 45:24  

We totally do. If my hair was down.

Lesley Logan 45:27  

I know. (...) my hair up? You know? So...

Ripley Rader 45:32  

Well, this is like such an example of business owning is that I planned on showering and getting gorgeous. But we had a shoot this morning and then a last minute fitting downtown in my office. So I had to run downtown. And then my team was like, You're fine, you're fine. Just stick your hair up in a ponytail. You know? And I was like, Okay, great.

Lesley Logan 45:50  

I think in this routine, we are going to take a brief break. And then we're gonna find out where people can find you, follow you, get more of your amazingness and your Be It action items. Alright, so where can people stalk you, or look like you, dress like you, all the things?

Ripley Rader 46:08  

I don't know if anyone wants to look like me, but I'll take it. Um, well, our major platforms, our Instagram is probably our biggest platform. It's @shopripleyrader.com. I also have a personal I mean, sort of a designer account @RipleyRader. So either one, I was great. It's fun to sort of follow both sides. One's very curated and incredible and one is a bit more process oriented. Our website is ripleyrader.com. R I P L E Y R A, D as in dog, e as an echo, R and, and so that's it, that's an awesome place. That's probably the best places to reach me.

Lesley Logan 46:47  

That's perfect. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targets steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Ripley Rader 46:56  

Do more yourself. Don't be afraid to take something on. Do it. Do your own website, do your own product testing. Do it yourself. Don't believe that you have to hire other people to make things happen. Because if you feel called to do it, you're probably intrinsically positioned to do the job. That's probably my biggest thing. Don't be afraid to do things on your own. And they might not be great. They might not be perfect, but they're, but they'll be done and you'll learn from it. And then the next time it'll be perfect.

Lesley Logan 47:30  

Yeah. Yeah. I loved, somebody asked me the other day, like, you know, which which is better done or perfect. I was like, oh my god done every day.

Ripley Rader 47:39  

Oh, my gosh, perfect. Perfect. Just well, and I, when I interviewed my teen girls about this, we did a whole thing on perfection. And I said to one of the girls, what would you rather be than perfect? She's 15 She looks at me and she goes, happy, impactful. I mean, what else? Oh, and I was like, huh, because perfection doesn't exist in our company. And I, and I don't believe in it. And I think that the best things in life are. Perfection is boring. It's like vanilla ice cream. Like it's boring. 

Lesley Logan 48:08  

Yep, that's what we see at the top of every show. And also, I'm like, nobody wants to be friends of perfect. Like, I have a couple friends in LA, who like I would be afraid to go to their house because it's so perfect. And like, are my socks even clean enough for their floors? Like am I like am I or my jeans good enough for this white couch? 

Ripley Rader 48:25  

Yeah, we don't, we're not precious with anything around here. Like no, it's there's I'd rather be I say to all of my interns have a gaggle of young women and I'm like, the goal in life is to be interesting at a dinner party. It is not to be perfect. You need really good stories in your life because that will carry you everywhere you go. I mean, I've started this company, we're successful. While but the most interesting conversations I have with people are when you were really poor and traveling Europe, What was your favorite hostel? This is the thing, right? like interesting is the goal, perfection, for losers!

Lesley Logan 49:01  

Oh my God, saving that forever. Ripley, you're phenomenal. I really do hope we get to cross paths because...

Ripley Rader 49:09  

If you're ever in LA please do hit me up

Lesley Logan 49:11  

Oh, I will because of course I mean we do we absolutely looks like we're related

Ripley Rader 49:15  

We do, and I have another woman on my team who looks exactly like us as well. It's like I only hang out with with other

Lesley Logan 49:22  

Oh, I love it like attracts like well you're a wonderful I'm so happy this happened. Y'all how are you going to use these tips in your life? Please tag Ripley Rder, tag the Be It pod. Share this with a friend who needs to hear how boring perfection is and how to be it till they see it, and until next time, Be It Till You See It!

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 49:38  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 49:38  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 49:38  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 49:38  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 49:38  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join Lesley as she celebrates the podcast's second anniversary by delving into the significance of small victories and the transforming impact of being present. Learn how to celebrate milestones, accept support, and find joy in the process to achieve greater contentment and success.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The importance of allowing others to uplift and support you.   
• The significance of seemingly small wins and their positive impact.
• Lesley celebrates the podcast’s 2-year anniversary as collective achievement with the team. 
• The significance of completing a project and delivering it to customers.
• The benefits of finding a schedule that allows for balance between personal and professional commitments.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Lauren Barker, an eLevate member
• Mentions, Bianca Filoteo, an agency member
• Mentions, Liza Stael, an eLevate member

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
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• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:00  

Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan 0:00  

 Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Happy FYF my love's, how are you? Oh my god, we made it to the end of June, that's a frickin win right there. So thank you for being here. Thank you for having a Fuck Yeah Friday with me. We'd love to make these short, sweet and their inspiration to acknowledge the types of wins you probably are having. And if you're listening this podcast, struggling to celebrate your wins. So hi, Lesley Logan, if this is your first time here, hi, guess what? It's the anniversary of this podcast, two years we've been doing it, two years. I cannot believe the amount of people who are listening to this podcast. It blows me away every single time. We've made it two years. This is a long haul for me babes. I plan on doing this for as many years as I possibly can, as long as you like to hear this voice. So that's a win. But believe it or not, I have some other ones to share. Before I do that, though, your wins. So this is Lauren Barker. She is one of my eLevators. She's in round three. And here's the win she has. I taught the CPR instructor, a friend that talked me into getting into teaching in the first place. She has been really down lately and she's been contemplating not pursuing her master teaching level. I asked her if I could borrow her for 15 minutes. At 15 minutes I told her we could stop or I had time if she wanted to keep going. She stayed into the entire map routine. She has never practiced classically. And she said she loved it. She didn't know that Pilates could be like that, especially the mat. She said that she felt that, so satisfying the fatigue that she felt like she was shaking on the inside. Show me today and said that I had made Pilates fun for her again, and surely hope to be willing to work with her more. It's a beautiful gift to be able to give, be able to lift up a friend teacher that's frequently encouraged me. I so often struggle with feelings of inadequacy, but I was able to give her what she needed that day and maybe more so on a deeper level, grateful and also so grateful for the encouragement so many of you have given me so many different. Lauren, so happy you're on round three. And way to give back to another teacher. It's so important that we as teachers who are listening this podcast, let other people pour into us. And we often don't let that happened because we think it's our job to warn others and it is but you can only warn others if you've important too. So thank you for sharing this win, I hope that every teacher and female person listening to this realizes how important it is to let people pour into you. It can truly get you out of that stuckness you're feeling. Our next one is from Bianca Filoteo. She is an Agency member, I'm obsessed with her, she has, I'm obsessed with every single one of you, but I really have loved the journey following her as the many years I've known her. So she said, one client upgraded her package and wants to try twice a week for the next month. One kind of been working with who had a total knee replacement told me her physios already notice changes after only four sessions, and he suggested to keep doing Pilates, and got more self practice time in this week. And my body's feeling so good. I share, I love sharing this moment so much because I think it'd be so easy to ignore all three of these ones. These are big wins. And you might think these are small wins in your own life. Just like one person in your life like doing a little extra because of you, and one person having these improvements because of you, and you taking time for yourself. These are massive wins in a big way. And I want to share this because it's so important to me that you've noticed that wins don't have to be like you won the fucking lottery, they can be these little daily nudges that what you're doing in this planet matters. And you matter. And it's important that you take care of you. One more win for you from our listeners. This is Liza Stael. She's also an eLevate. She says, I'm FYFing for my future self because I know how I'm going to celebrate my 52nd birthday. On the second longest day of the year, sandwiched between Juneteenth and the summer Equinox. Since I'm turning the same number of years as there are in one week, there are weeks in one year, so she's turning 52. You guys, there are 52 weeks in a year. I'm going to FYF every week for a year. What better way to mark the number of years I've danced around the Sun by celebrating my wins? Yay FYF practice. So who is going to join Lisa on this journey? I mean, I am, I'm signed up for that. But that's because of this podcast. What are you? Are you willing to celebrate your wins every single week for a year? I hope so. 

And now for my win. So here's the deal, is the second anniversary of this pod, so of course you think well of course the win is a podcast and it is. I couldn't be more grateful to get to celebrate this day with you. It's kind of epic. Considering how long ago I wanted to start a podcast . it's, it's Pretty epic, that we've made it two years. Do you know how long, do you know how hard it is to make something lasts for two years, it's actually so easy for something to last two weeks, two months, even a year, think about relationships in your life. But two years, it's a big deal. It's pretty huge. But I met a chef last week with Brad and some of my besties in Knapp, Utah. And he had won an award. He was voted best chef in Utah. And he said, It's a weird, weird award to win. Because you can't be the best chef without a kitchen staff. And so the second anniversary is a big one. But it's not just my win. It's my team's win. And so to every one of my team members who is listening to this podcast, hello, I truly couldn't have done this without you. And the impact this podcast is having is because of you. Yes, I'm part of that. But without you, it would not be edited. It probably would not be consistent. And for fuck sure, it would have tech issues. So thank you. My other win is this. Last week, I couldn't celebrate the FYF because it happened on the Friday after I put the podcast out. The people who print our flashcards for the chairs deck, they sent a video of the chairs being printed. And it's really cool. Like they send this video and it's like, first of all to see sheets that come out. And it's so weird, especially if you have never seen a printer before. Like it's these weird, like they're super long. It's like longer than legal page sheets. And then I've seen the video when they're cut up, and they're like spiced up and then they're put it in like human hands are like organizing them, which is shocking to me, because I'm like, I don't understand why this is not like machine made, but they're somewhat machine made, but mostly human hands, touch them. And then someone whose hands put them in a box that they actually, while it's printed by a machine, someone hand folds, the boxes. And every time these boxes get printed for the first time, it's like it's kind of like, I don't have children, but it's like the birth of a baby of mine. Because this particular deck was nine months old. I started working on it in October of last year in Cambodia. I wrote the copy for the decks, then somebody else who was a teacher, but not classically, reviewed them. And then I reviewed them and then someone who's not a teacher at all review them, and then we send them off to the printers. And then I reviewed the printed version. And then they get sent out again. And it's this long process. And it's so easy for people to see and go wow, that's your like, you're so lucky. Oh, wow, that must be so nice. So incredible what you're doing and and sometimes people have weird suggestions for me, which I think they're being helpful, which is fine. That every time we print a deck, it is this humongous accomplishment. Because while I technically finished this deck, back in April, it's not finished until it's in the hands of you, those of you who bought it. So that is a another massive win. And I have a third win. So I mentioned that I was at a restaurant with an amazing award winning chef in Utah. And I shared this one because one of my besties from many, many moons ago, was out visiting and I worked on a new particular schedule last year, I'm always talking with my schedule tweaky with my schedule, moving with my schedule, to try to find the schedule that helps me show up as me fully the most. And I worked with my assistant last year in October, I said this is how I like my schedule to work. This is the vision I have for the schedule. And I have noticed how much I love the change of the schedule, I make gain and somebody else share that way I'm making the schedule. Let me know if you want to know, ask another question, while answering one of the Thursday episodes. But I had worked on this October of 2022. I told her how I envisioned it and I want to try it out for q1 of 2023. And in March of 2023 is like I love it. Let's keep going. So this is the first time my friends are visiting me since I made this change in my schedule. And I my friends came out on a Thursday night. We hung out all day Friday. Wednesday night. We hung out all day Thursday in town. And then Friday we went off to Utah and then Saturday we hiked around Utah on Sunday, we returned home and I said I'm so sorry guys. I have to do at least an hour of work on the way home because I definitely won't be able to hang out with you when we're at home but I have there's some work that I tried to get done before Thursday night couldn't do it. And it has to be done before then today today. So if you don't mind, I'm just gonna work while we're in the car, listening to podcasts, you know? And my friends, like, of course, and also, this is amazing how little you've had to work the whole time you've been here. And it's like, well, thank you. I always try not to be working whenever visiting with you guys. But several times you visited, there's been some crazy chaos that has happened that's required me to deal with the chaos that happened for an hour. And like, that's fine. You know, it happens, people understand, they've always been understanding. But to have them notice how little I've had to work was such a win. Because I really pride myself on being as present as possible when my friends are visiting. But as a business owner, for three companies, it can be a little hard everything, every business has its own needs at every given time. Like I imagined parents with three to four or five kids, you know, like, there's, it's kind of impossible for them not to be something going on. And there's tons going on. Actually, there's a lot going on, the cards were printing, we have this thing of Profitable Pilates that was going on, there's something else going on, we're getting ready for and yet, because of this schedule that I created for myself, and I have been working on for the last six months, I was able to be present. And it was just so nice for other people to notice, because I knew I was but for other people to acknowledge as well was such a win. So these are my wins. Do you see how there can be so many wins? Some of them can be because of a team, some can like because of a lifetime of efforting, and some of them can be intentional choices you've made, and they're not, they don't sound huge to the rest of the world, but they're huge to you and that means are huge to me. So celebrate your wins, tag me in them. And just send them in so I can shout them out to all of our listeners. Thank you so much and happy Fuck Yeah Friday!

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 3:30  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 3:36  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 4:23  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 6:51  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 7:26  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Lesley and Brad discuss the most important insights shared by Erin Baute, an experienced behaviorist, about the power of the Enneagram personality test. Erin shared how the Enneagram practice offers a holistic approach to self-awareness and personal growth. Tune in to learn more about recognizing your personality type, recovering your true identity, and changing your motivation and behavior through the Enneagram practice.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How the Enneagram personality test works.
• Reconnecting with your authentic self and regaining true identity.
• Reframing your ‘why’ and reevaluating your commitment
• How to rediscover who you are.
• The four action steps to changing unhealthy behavior.

Episode References/Links:

• Summer Camp opc.me/event.
• UK Tour opc.me/uk.
• Poland Tour contrologypilatesconference.com
• Join us in Cambodia lesleylogan.co/retreat
• Erin Baute’s website https://livingtheenneagram.com/ 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

We get a lot of DMS, from listeners who are hard on themselves about having to relearn a lesson. It's like, why are you making this even harder by like beating yourselves up that you are still learning this lesson, like, embrace that personal growth. That's like, that's, if you don't fight it and don't get badly you should be further along than you are. It's part of your journey. And if you know your Enneagram, you can actually really tap into your personal journey even better. 

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life Brad and I dig into the thought provoking convo I had with Erin Baute in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free, feel free. You can feel all the freeness to pause this now go back and listen to that one. And then come back and join us. 

Brad Crowell 0:36  

Feel that freeness! 

Lesley Logan 0:37  

Feel that freeness. Well, you know what? Based on today's, I mean, that should have been, it's a feel that freeness convo is really what it was because it's actually very freeing. When you think about what we're about to talk about.

Yes, we're gonna hint (...)

Yeah, I mean, some of these, some of our listeners are perfectly overachiever. And I've already listened to the interview. I already know. So, today, June 29th, if you're listening on the day this drops is National Work From Home day. So, let's celebrate all of you who W F H. Those who have Pilates studios, work from home like we do. Maybe you work from home part of the time. And if you don't work from home, maybe you work from home today. We probably should have let you know to do that last week. You know, I actually, I kind of love it. But I also one day a week go work at a coffee shop for a change of scenery. Anyways... (Brad: Quite nice, actually.) Yeah. So if you're WFHing, then tag Be It pod. Let us know what that looks like.

Brad Crowell 1:38  

Sorry. I'm playing with my mic over here. Yeah. So I'm sure you hear crunching around.

Lesley Logan 1:44  

Just ADHD right over there. 

Brad Crowell 1:46  

Number three.

Lesley Logan 1:52  

Hint, hint, hint. All right. So here is the deal. OPC summer camp is coming. So, you can get on the waitlist at opc.me/event.

Brad Crowell 2:03  

Actually, we may have just made the announcement in fact, it's the... (Lesley: if they go there, they'll just get to the event anyways.) Yeah, yeah. But here's, here's the deal. This is the first time we've ever done a summer camp. Okay, so we kind of been toying around with these one off like workshops and live events, kind of things with OPC virtual live events. And this time, we decided to do a two day event, we're doing two days, the first two day event we've ever done virtually like this.

Lesley Logan 2:28  

Every OPC teacher and one of our contributors is slaying one of their special T topics. And they're gonna do a team workshop. If the teaser or something that bothers you, or frustrate you, or you're just like a hip flexor it out, we have worked on as a team together. So you're not gonna want to miss out on these topics. You can buy workshops a la carte, you can buy all of them, there is going to be an awesome offer if you buy two of them. I'm not gonna say it right now, because I don't want to screw it up. But I'm pretty sure the team has it very clearly on the website once ago. So opc.me/event is where you want to go to. There's going to be a waitlist, if it's not up, or you'll actually see it. And with these things, if you can't make it live, well, we'll miss you. But you'll have access to the replays. So even if you're like, oh my gosh, guys, I'm traveling, great Snag your spot and then you'll just get the replay in your dashboard... (Brad:Yeah, it's gonna be awesome.) Yeah, we're super excited. And then also, we are (...)

Brad Crowell 3:22  

So that's going to be in July. Like the second weekend or something like that.

Lesley Logan 3:27  

Yeah, after the holiday. And then if you're in the US, it's not holiday everywhere. So, there's that. And then also, after we're done with that, we're gonna get ourselves up on a plane and go to Scotland and then drop down to Leeds for the mullet tour. I don't think they sing that song there.

Brad Crowell 3:46  

You don't think they sing that song in England?

Lesley Logan 3:48  

I don't know. I don't know. I have not heard it. But we know maybe there's a jukebox and you could play it. Yeah.

Brad Crowell 3:56  

I feel like we will find it. 

Lesley Logan 3:58  

We are going to be in Claire Sparrow studio in Leeds. Chapel Allerton is this area and the studio and it's gonna be so fun. We have business workshops in the beginning, Pilates movement workshops in the afternoon, you can now buy a la carte tickets to these workshops.

Brad Crowell 4:12  

Yeah, there's only a few of those notes. So, if you were thinking about it at all. Get on that. But I just realized, for this summer camp, go to opc.me/event. For the UK tour, you're going to opc.me/uk. All right?

Lesley Logan 4:29  

And so there's, if you just a hint, if you actually do want to do like two days of workshops, it's actually cheaper to get the weekend pass plus you get to work out so you want to do that. And there's actually only a couple of those tickets left. Yeah, and then we're gonna come back. We're gonna do, I think I'm doing my final weekend for eLevate as one of the things that's happening, for around two. And then, we get in the van, and we hit the West Coast.We grab all the dogs... 

Brad Crowell 4:59  

We are actually going on IRL tour.

Lesley Logan 5:01  

Yeah, and we just announced it at the time we're recording this and holy frickin Molly. Way to go, West Coast on snapping up those tickets. It's kind of crazy and we're going to some really exotic towns, we are, we're going to be in Redlands, Long Beach. We're gonna be in...

Brad Crowell 5:18  

Bakersfield just south of Fresno. Yeah Hanford. Yeah, we're gonna be in Fairview which is near Sacramento. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's working. That's should be...(Lesley: I think it is Fairfield. No Fairview.) Want to say it's Fairview. We'll figure that out. Yeah. It's near Sacramento,

Lesley Logan 5:36  

If you're listening to this now, it is on the site. So don't worry. We'll have it on our map. And then we're gonna go all the way through Oregon and to Seattle. Yeah. So, West Coast. We've been wanting to this for years. We promised for years. This is the time if you want us to keep doing it. Yep. Snag your spot.

Brad Crowell 5:53  

We'll have some upcoming tour announcements as well. We're adding more respondents.

Lesley Logan 5:57  

Also with super cool not to each class, but maybe some more simplification. Yeah. So here's the thing about the West Coast, your studios are small. So these classes are intimate. So you do want to be fast on ticket a ticket. But we're also able to do some workshops, which we never have. We've only been able to do in Atlanta. So I'm really, really excited because we get to really hang out for a while. It's not just I hit it and quit it like we're, we're spending time. Oh, we spent some time with y'all. And then in September, we come back. And in September, we are in Poland. So you want to go to contrologypilatesconference.com for that information. It's actually really special. We haven't been in Poland since 2018. And it just that's also an intimate setting, which I'm really excited about. And then finally, Cambodia. We started looking at our flight for this, Oh my gosh, I'm so excited also like we have some family coming on this one. 

Brad Crowell 6:48  

Yeah, so it's gonna be amazing. lesleylogan.co/retreat to get your tickets to join us in Cambodia, there is totally still time. I know, it may seem like a little like, whoa, that's on the other side of the world. But like Lesley just said, We just are looking at our tickets, you don't wanna miss out on anything.

Lesley Logan 7:04  

Plane tickets prices, you don't want to buy them too early.

Brad Crowell 7:06  

And we have done this trip so many times. We have like all of the details prepped and ready just for you. So, as soon as you place your deposit, actually affect at this point, it'll be, we'll have to figure out like getting the full payment from you. Because July here we're getting all that stuff lined up now. But there's still time to join us. And we'll have, we'll make sure you have links to travel insurance if you want that. You know we'll pick you up from the airport, everything.

Lesley Logan 7:33  

You don't need to be an experienced traveler who have all the taken care of and the people who are going to be on this trip that have already signed up are absolutely part of your family. Yeah, it's your life forever.

Brad Crowell 7:43  

Great group already coming and so don't miss it. It's gonna be awesome. 

Lesley Logan 7:47  

So, clearly, we do not slow down for summer. I don't know what summer nights are for you. But they are opposite for us. I will hibernate in the winter.

Brad Crowell 7:57  

Heck yeah, that's how we do because actually November we used to have some plans, they got cancelled. So we're still working out the specifics on all that stuff.

Lesley Logan 8:04  

Well, now there's this new things. Don't worry about November, guys, we're coming out.

Yeah, well, we'll keep you posted.

There's no rest for the weary. I'll be really honest, we are just gonna keep on keeping on. So just, you know, stick to this or listen to like read the newsletters because that's where the stuff happens as quickly as possible. All right, we should talk about Erin Baute.

Brad Crowell 8:23  

Okay, now let's talk about Erin Baute, an experienced behaviorist who has embarked on a remarkable journey, shaped by the challenges and triumphs of being a mom and raising a neurodiverse daughter. She seamlessly integrates her extensive knowledge into both her personal and professional life, offering invaluable insights into behaviors, habit changing, and personal growth. So one thing that's if y'all are in agency, then you got a chance to meet Erin recently when she came in to do a webinar. And I found it like really, really enlightening. Her one of her passions, I mean, she's a behavior. So she used to work, I just found this out after listening to the episode last week, or earlier this week, sorry, is that she used to run three branches of a health care company and was on the VP track and like, basically kicking ass and taking names and workaholic and realize that she wasn't enjoying life and wasn't spending time with her kid or her partner. And so she decided to leave all that. And, you know, and actually now she's offering her behaviorist services, and she's really focused on the Enneagram. And so I'm sure you've heard of the Enneagram. We've joked earlier I joke that I'm type three, I am a type three, Lesley is a 7...(Lesley: 7/7) I'm a 3/4.

Lesley Logan 10:06  

So I'm a seven with an eight wing, you're a three with a four wing I think is what you're saying. And also, Okay, so, Erin knows this, because we actually saw her for a webinar. Before this week this episode came out but the night before her webinar, we went out to dinner with Jake and Carrie and Jake will be on the podcast and we'll have an interview coming up with him. He's got an amazing book out but Carrie is on the podcast Carrie (...). And so we're out to dinner. And she she says, Oh, well, Jake's a seven. And to somebody else. I said, Oh, I'm a seven. And she's like, of course you bucket are like, and then she and then and then Kate jokes like, Oh, you're seven high five. She's a one. And basically like...

Brad Crowell 10:44  

I felt like oh, what are we talking about? No idea what this means

Lesley Logan 10:48  

It honestly makes me feel like I know it has nothing to do with like your sun sign and your moon sign but it's like when you get around people who do know those things. And they're like, Ah ha, that's my he's a triple Pisces or when they throw out that they know not only the sun, but they know the moon and the rising and they're just like...

Brad Crowell 11:03  

He's rising and his while he's sleeping

Lesley Logan 11:06  

Yeah, no, anyway, but like it felt like that...(Brad: I'm way in) So it was a little bit like, Okay, now ever. It's like, it's like, it feels like the 70s. I'm like, what's your sign? But then we were sitting down at dinner, Jake was like, Okay, well, let me explain to you all the stuff. And like Erin did a great job. So I'm not going to take any time here with dets. But it was so fun to hear another person dive in deep to this and how they use it in their life and then his coaching world how he uses it. And it just like, the more you dive into this, I feel like you know yourself even more. And when you, I read Erin's newsletter, so go read her newsletters, because she shares something went on her life. And then she like shares how like it affected her and how her husband reacted, and then how her husband reacted, how that pissed her off. And then she took a step back and goes well, he's at this, and I'm in this and that's why it bothered me because him not taking action makes me feel unsafe. And as a seven we're like a double gas pedal. So like action makes us feel good. Hence take messy action.

Brad Crowell 12:14  

Hence most of the things you hear on this pod.

Lesley Logan 12:18  

Just trying to spread my seven all around. No, in fact, not one number is better than any other number. 

Brad Crowell 12:24  

So, what I thought was really helpful was the concept of most tests for personalities. Focus on your behavior.

Lesley Logan 12:41  

Like what you do.

Brad Crowell 12:42  

What you do, or how you do it. Where the Enneagram focuses on why you do it. And that's interesting, because the why drives your behavior. 

Lesley Logan 12:58  

Well, and like I think, well, of course it does. But also I think like, it can be so annoying about like, you have family members in your life, you guys, or you have like co workers, it's like, why the fuck are they doing like that? That pisses me off. And then it's like, if you actually were to know them on this level, it is easier to go okay, they do that because it makes them feel safe. Right? When they do that it makes me feel unsafe. They're not doing that on purpose (...) And also like, how do we own our own reactions to things. And so like you (...)

Brad Crowell 13:36  

It's just what we talked about with her newsletter.

Lesley Logan 13:37  

Yes, yes, yes. So anyway, I'm gonna talk about what I loved. Okay, so she said, Enneagram is a practice of returning to our whole selves. So I kind of liked this. I don't even know what this just came to me. There was this like, book that I read, many, many years ago, Getting The Love You Want. And it was like, when you get into relationships you like fill all of your holes, like you like, Oh, look at how amazing I am. And then, but then your brain thinks it was like the other person did that. And then months later, when both of you stop filling all of your holes, you're like, you fucking change. It's like, actually, no, you just were being yourself and you pause, but Enneagram is right in between our whole selves. And so (...)

Brad Crowell 14:17  

I like to think of it as like, just to put it in some context here because we basically you know, how people are like, one plus one equals two when it comes to people, right? A half and a half is going to make that whole

Speaker 2 14:35  

(well oh my god, right stops for any of that. Yeah, fuck that.)

Brad Crowell 14:39  

Right? I think one plus one. You have to be individual, one plus one is going to equal one here, you have two whole people in order to have a functioning relationship. And if you come in with like, half of yourself expecting them to be the other half of you. You're setting yourself up for eventual failure.

Lesley Logan 15:01  

Yeah, yeah, 1,000%. So she talked about like, you can use the Enneagram. To actually, like, understand where you like how you started to use these smaller sets of yourself to feel safe and as resources and you got older, and you're just working with these smaller sets, but actually, when you know what number you are in the Enneagram, you can actually help yourself move into working with your whole self. And so, so going back to like, some of these personality tests, like, put you in a box, and you're gonna help you tell you what box you're in and how to get out of it. So like, I really, really liked it. She also said that of all the behavior models, she loves the anagram, because it helps her appreciate is because it helped her reconnect with her authentic self. And then, and she admitted she was simply lost in touch with oh, we all are equally lost, she was temporarily lost, she was totally lost touch with who her authentic self was. And like, I think we can all admit that we've like temperately lost touch with ourselves and not even like one time, like maybe every other every other moment. And so by using the Enneagram, she can regain a sense of her true identity. And it helps her embrace her personal growth. And I think that's the hard part for a lot of people, we get a lot of DMS, from listeners who are hard on themselves about having to relearn a lesson. It's like, why are you making this even harder by like beating yourselves up that you are still learning this lesson, like, embrace that personal growth. That's like, that's, if you don't fight it and don't get badly you should be further along than you are. It's part of your journey. And if you know your Enneagram, you can actually really tap into your personal journey even better.

Brad Crowell 16:44  

Yeah, also to the Enneagram test, which I found really interesting, was a conversation. And I've really liked that because Erin said that. There's only one actual behavior slash personality test that was like empirically studied, meaning like they ran tests on it, like scientific tests. And she said, the win rate on that test is only 46%. I was just like, wow, so like, all these things that we do, like, okay, they might get it right. But chances are high that it's not exactly right. Right? So(...)

Lesley Logan 17:25  

I know, because I took the test, because I was like, oh, I need to know my number before she gets on. And it was like, yeah, I totally took it. And it was like, Okay, well, you could be a three, you could also be a seven, you could be a one. I was like, What do you mean? Right? (...)

Brad Crowell 17:40  

So, yeah, the way that she runs it, because she's been doing this for decades, you know, she, studying behavior, I mean, for decades, and then she really went deep into studying the Enneagram. The way she does the test is by having a conversation. And at the end of it, she effect effectively makes like an assessment of you and says, Hey, based on the conversation that we had, here's what I'm thinking where you land on the scales, you know...(Lesley: and then they try it on) Yeah. And then she told me, she actually literally told me, she's like, read more about this and don't share your results to Lesley. I want you to think through this before you're influenced by, by especially someone who knows you so well. And I kind of had a laugh about that. 

Lesley Logan 18:26  

You guys, Erin, he like literally wouldn't tell me until we got around these friends were throwing numbers around. And then he said his number. I was like, oh, what?

Brad Crowell 18:35  

It's true. Well, one thing I love that she said, is that, she said, the work for her became recovering, recovering it as opposed to being it in a way, because of who she is. She is an overachiever. And she feels safe when again taking action. Right? So she was a high powered, you know, corporate track, on the VP track. And she basically quit all that. And she in her head decided, well, in order for me to have a reason to quit, to tell all my colleagues, I'm just going to go get a PhD now. And she had recently had a child and her child is neuro divergent and requires a lot of attention. And so she basically like stacked on this reason to go do this PhD, which allowed her to quit but also put her in a really difficult position of trying to, you know, do family and go to school. And she realized that she wasn't winning on this and she decided she needed to change the reason. So, you know, that's where the recovering she needed to recover the reason for why she was doing the PhD. instead of like, she obviously left her job. So she's no longer doing the PhD to have an excuse for her old colleagues. So why is she doing it now? You know, and so (...)

Lesley Logan 20:10  

I love that, it's like how can, like, if you are struggling with something like that, it's like a reframing of it. It's like, like, maybe why you started to do something that no longer serves you. And if you're not willing to let go of whatever that thing is, you need to reframe why it is that you're doing it. That allows you to show up to it in a different way. And be less resentful of the thing. 

Brad Crowell 20:31  

Yeah, actually, I think that, you know, she definitely talked about, she had to reevaluate her commitment, she decided to change the flow, the process, in fact, she decided, I'm doing this for me. And if I'm doing it for me, then I don't need to do it on the same timeline as the school. So she took six months off, to focus on family, and then she started doing it again. And she said, you know, if I need to do that again, that's okay. And it sounds to me like she's enjoying the process a whole lot more. And it's not stressing her out, which is really interesting, because her natural inclination is the overachiever of like, I gotta be perfect. They're gonna get it all done, I gotta get it all. Like, there's a timeline, you know, and it's an arbitrary timeline, generally speaking. 

Lesley Logan 21:19  

I know, after I didn't know, I was a seven until after I met with her. And I also didn't know that she was a seven until we did the webinar. And this whole interview is so, I understand all of it in so many ways, I understand so well.

Brad Crowell 21:37  

Yeah, so for her, it was what I found interesting is that, you know, you talked about that sense of feeling safe, like, what makes you feel safe, for her working hard, or continuously working is like, I must be doing something and that makes her feel safe. Right? And so that's where it like, you know, when she originally was working the job, like, what is she going to not work anymore? Right? So she added this PhD into the mix, while also started to do coaching. And that, for sure, will keep her working. You know? And so it's been an interesting understanding of herself going, Oh, I did this. I did this. Okay, we need to, we need to slow down, you know? and so, anyway, that that'll really allow her to kind of rediscover...

Lesley Logan 22:27  

yeah, herself. And I think like, I want to bring up this one point. That's, that's in your notes to talk about, but I want to talk about it. So, you know, when you start to discover, when you start to dive in, and like going, what, well, like, who am I? Why do I do it the way I do? Why am I performing like, behaving like this? You, a lot of times, people want to take the big change, because it's like, ah, like, I know it now. That's the thing I have to do. And I'll go do it. I'll go do it in the most unsafe place. For example, she had, she talked about that client she had, who was like thinking to change her job. And because she wasn't speaking up and no one was listening and dadada. And when she discovered, like, when they reached, when they talked about, like, well, what do you mean? No one listen,why don't you speak up? And she's like, I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to make a mistake. Her perfectionist tendencies was actually created this critical inner voice that told her she wasn't good enough. And, so, it was like, well, let's not go do this out the job. That's actually going to put you in feeling even more unsafe, and it's actually going to, like, exacerbate your problem. Instead you need to do it in a very safe place for habit change. And you know, we talked about habits all the time, like we talked about, like unraveling the habit no longer have you can't just like create a void. You can't just go big or go home, you have to do something small. So she talked about her labor two and four year old put the dishes away. And even if they just like threw the dishes in the drawer, she just had to like, shut the drawer.

Brad Crowell 23:55  

Let me chime in here because this is one of my biggest takeaways effect from her interview, is that she said her client who is in the decision making of her job like, like, high level C level exact wasn't chiming up, chiming in, and when they identified why, which was fear of making a mistake, was debilitating for her. So she wouldn't ever even propose anything that could get rejected, right? And so this mistake, the control, the perfectionism, all that stuff kind of rolls into one. Then, what's the obvious, like, natural next step of that is, well, why don't you try making a little, you know, proposition or and then seeing whatever and Erin actually said, that's wrong. Don't do that. That's not what you want to do. Because that's the behavior. Right? And that yes, like, like, basically, you need to understand the changes need to start with the why. And then the behavior comes after that. And that to me was like, oh shit, we just change, we just immediately try to change our behavior. Like imagine quitting smoking, I guess I just won't do it. Right? but it's not the why behind the, why do you want to smoke, right? Like, that's just the the actual act of smoking, right? and so in this case changing, like throwing in a my small concept, which could still get her shut down could still get her like back into fear. Just as quickly as a larger idea getting shut down. It's, that's actually not going to benefit her, she needed to work on the root of that. And that's where that control that perfectionism and allowing her kids to make a mess. That was the root, that's the beginning of allowing her to actually make a proposition in the boardroom later. Crazy, right? Like to think about that kind of stuff.

Lesley Logan 25:52  

Yeah, I love it. I love it. I want to know from everyone who's listening, like, I want to know what your number is, if you know it, I want to know like how you're trying to use this in your life. Like I think that this is like one of the most powerful pieces of information to help us understand how do we be it until we see it because it's true, you cannot go be something that could like actually, like the behavior could actually affect you in a way that would like take you back a notch and put you more in an unsafe feeling place.

Brad Crowell 26:23  

Yeah, so if you're watching this on YouTube, leave us a comment below with your number. If you're on the gram. Leave a comment on the posts. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. All right.

Okay, so finally, let's talk about those Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Erin Baute. So, she said, relationship, research 69% of the problems that we face are unsolvable. Which I was like, I really wanted her to go more in on that because it didn't quite unlike. I was like, really? Okay. She said we spent too much time looking for fixes and not enough time, learning how to manage who we are. And cycle through (...)

Lesley Logan 27:19  

I actually think that goes back to Dr. Bender stress thing where we just are always trying to find a reason

Brad Crowell 27:25  

Hold that thought. She said, This is what, this was like the culmination of what she said, I don't need to be fixed. I'm a person. I am who I am. Right? So that was like, Whoa, that's pretty powerful. Okay, sorry. 

Lesley Logan 27:41  

So, if y'all remember Dr. Bender second episode with us about like this undue stress we put on ourselves, like oftentimes, because we like our reasoning, we're trying to find a reason for why we feel the way that we feel. And that oftentimes, because we're trying to find a reason we come up with a reason. And that reason is probably not even accurate. And then we've created another problem for ourselves. And so what I love about what Erin just said is like, if 69% of our problems are unsolvable, then that means that there is no reason. There's nothing to be reasoned with. Like, it's just, it's managing the behavior. It's understanding, like (...)

Brad Crowell 28:13  

it's identifying what is happening and why. And that, again, the Enneagram really helps with understanding the why. So, I think that makes total sense about what Dr. Bender mentioned. So Erin said, understanding those things, she recommends practicing these four steps. So step one, and two, is to notice and name. The step she said, noticing is paying attention to oneself or me. Self awareness, this is like recognizing your Enneagram type. Ask yourself, who are you? who you are, right? Pay attention to the behaviors that you have. And that's all the noticing, right? And then there's the naming of it. She said, this is making meaning out of what you do. Right? And that's your behavior, right? So how does it tie into your identity? Because you can't change something that is tied to your identity, if you cannot name it, right? so, she's talking about being able to change your behavior, right? But the behavior isn't like you have to notice who you are and why you're doing something before you can understand what you're doing with the behavior and then that behavior, then you can start to make those kinds of changes. Yeah, but there's two more steps Yes. 

Lesley Logan 29:33  

And those are recover and repair. So you have to hit, y'all have to be into your bodies. You have to be with yourself, you actually have to meet your own needs and I think that goes back to that, like, we tried to like meet Oh, this person's my other half and they're gonna meet my needs. It's like, you didn't meet your own needs you have it because also if you can't, you can't expect other people to read your mind you got to be able to like, even if you are unable to meet your own needs, but you have to know how to be meet those needs, if someone can help you with that, you can't just expect it to happen. So I really, really love that when she came into the webinar, and she was showing that Impala like shake off the stress of like being attacked by, I don't know, she does something. And I, it was just like, so cool to like, watch this animal, like, meet its own needs in that moment and to recover and like I watch our dogs, like when they want to stretch, they stretch, they don't, they don't go stretch, you know, so like they meet their own needs. It's kind of amazing. Just August is very demanding, He lets us know. And then and then. And then she said, and then the fourth one is repair. So which can equal change in your behavior, but you just set a boundary, she also uses her voice. In fact, you gave the example of like, I have a conversation with my spouse or my kiddos. And I say I want to do this differently. And that's what this looks like. And then that's how she can kind of cyclically move through things. Because she can't solve. It can't assault like (...)

Brad Crowell 30:59  

She is not a problem.

Lesley Logan 31:00  

She's not a problem to be solved. And I think that that is a really cool, you know, four step process that we can all try to do with ourselves and like, take action towards these things. Because my goodness, like, what if you stopped trying to solve yourself as a problem? What if you just saw yourself as like this amazing puzzle, which you could figure out and understand and use it to communicate and like shine bright, you know, like, we all have these. That's what's so cool about the, ultimate the Enneagram is, like, each person has like these incredible strengths. You know? Like, I mean, when we were talking with Jake, he was like, Oh, my gosh, you two need a one in your business. And I'm like, I think we have one we have to get our team tested. But you know, like, you're able to like see that. Alone, you're awesome. You have amazing skill sets. But like we all have these different skill sets we bring to a table that can really make things work better. So I loved Erin, I loved this so much. I'm like nerding out on my seven with an eight wing and seeing like, where like where I can work on some things and explore more. And also, it really helped me understand, like, why you do things the way you do, which is nice.

Brad Crowell 32:05  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I hope you enjoyed this. Definitely an interesting introduction to the Enneagram. Obviously, we didn't cover any of the actual explanations about any (...)

Lesley Logan 32:19  

Because you got she's, she's, she's a seven. So she's, I was just gonna gas pedal. She's got it all there. 

Brad Crowell 32:25  

Just gonna say we're gonna have a link to Erin's site in the show notes. So if you were interested in figuring out that, connect with her, we, you know, we're excited that we had a chance to do that with her. And so that could be really a great resource for you. And she could be a really great resource for you and then you can get to know her as well.

Lesley Logan 32:45  

Yeah. All right, loves, I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 32:47  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 32:48  

Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so grateful that you're here. We want to know what your number is. Not your phone number but your, you know, your Enneagram number. And I don't even know (...) you can also send us a DM on the pod, if you have a question you want us to answer please send it to us, so we can share some support your way and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 33:10  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 33:11  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 33:11  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 33:11  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 33:11  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 33:11  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 33:11  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this thought-provoking episode, join host Lesley Logan as she delves into deep conversations with Erin Baute, a seasoned behaviorist with a wealth of experience in behavior change. Erin's profound understanding of the Enneagram framework brings forth enlightening perspectives and fosters transformative discussions, offering listeners a rare and illuminating exploration into the depths of personality and personal growth.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The importance of understanding behavior as a learned skill.
• Why Enneagram requires a deeper level of self-reflection.
• The pitfalls of overusing coping and personality strategies
• The Importance of self-awareness in building a life that works for you.
• How to nurture habit change without overload. 

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Erin on IG
• Watch Erin on YouTube
• Check out the Living The Enneagram Website
• Dr. Bruce Perry’s the Neurosequential Model Network

Guest Bio:

Erin Baute is an experienced business coach and behavioral strategist, specializing in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, managers, and influential individuals navigate personality burnout caused by overused coping strategies and ignored intuition. With over 20 years of expertise in behavior change and professional development for individuals and teams, Erin holds a bachelor's degree in Human Development, a Master of Public Health, and is currently completing a PhD in Organizational Psychology. Her research focuses on leveraging personality as a framework for personal and professional development.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

 Erin Braute: [00:00:00] And that is the difference between behavior and identity, right? Mm-hmm. Like behavior in so much of behavior change says like, we're gonna go hike the Grand Canyon and, and we sort of. Look at the Grand Canyon and the vastness, and we get ready to hike it, but we sort of forget that in order to get to the other side, I have to look down and like take the first few steps.

And that's exactly what you're helping people do. It's like, just get in and logged in and hit play. Don't worry about being a Pilates pro in 30 days. Like just get in the system. Um, but so many people look at, you know, the Pilates Pro and are like, oh, I'll never be there, so I just won't start in the first place.

Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My [00:01:00] friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right Be It Babe. So I'm really excited about today's guest. Okay. First of all, I know I'm excited always, but really this is really fun because, first of all, this is a divine appointment that goes way back into a day that I was listening to a podcast I don't normally listen to when it drops, I usually listen to it like over like a long drive, and I heard this woman and I was like, oh, I love this person. I have to have it on. Remember Melissa Doman? She was on while back and I loved her. And then, I emailed a bunch of guests and I said, Hey, I love your recommendations because we'd loved your episode.

I'd love to [00:02:00] hear who you think should be on the podcast. Melissa was the first person to respond, and she responded with today's guest, Erin Baute. And when I saw what Erin Baute does, I was like totally all for myself very intrigued. Okay? Because I was like, I have heard about this personality quiz test.

I might be calling it the wrong thing, but I've heard about this and I've never dove into it. Um, because I was just like, I don't wanna be overwhelmed with all these things, but I have been intrigued. Right? And so I was like, of course I'm gonna have her on. So it is the Enneagram the reason why we started this conversation.

However, when you get into this episode, if you're like, I don't wanna learn about Enneagram, I don't care, I want you to listen to this episode because Erin is incredible. She has decades of behavioral science education, and then she discovered this, the Enneagram and she, it really flipped on its head what she does for living.

And then we go into how [00:03:00] her firstborn child actually changed things even more for her. So this interview has a lot of turns to it. It is very enlightening. Ship it up one of my favorite authors that I've ever read that really explains who we are and what we do. So we go into a lot of things.

I promise you this is gonna be an episode that helps you understand yourself a bit more. I think sometimes we, like, we, we just wonder is there something wrong with like, what's wrong with me? And there is not anything. But also she's gonna give you the keys to the kingdom of understanding why you do what you do in this episode.

And so without further ado, well, you know, as of course we do a little ado, and then Erin Baute 

​

Lesley Logan: All right Be It babes, I'm super excited. I have an amazing guest actually, when I read about her, I was super intrigued by something that she does, cuz I actually have not dove into this topic, into this personality thing, believe it or not there. But [00:04:00] I'm just so excited. I'm gonna let her tell you what it is.

Erin Baute thank you for being a guest here today. Can you tell the Be It listeners who you are and what you're rocking at?

Erin Braute: Yeah. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here and chat with you today. I am Erin Baute. I'm a behaviorist by trade, so I've been studying, working in the field of behavior change for over two decades, and in that work I was introduced to the Enneagram.

It's a personality model about 13 years ago, and it took what I understood about behavioral theory and sort of hit fast forward on it when we could go deep into the constructs of personality as a way to create lasting change. Right? A lot of the coping and habits that we've developed are birthed out of our personality framework in childhood, and they sort of get ingrained in the unconscious and subconscious minds.

And so in order for us to sort of break [00:05:00] through some of the places, we get unst, we get stuck. We have to understand how it connects to our identity and our coping and the things that we do to keep us theoretically safe in the world. Right. Like we don't have the same threats as maybe we've had in the past.

And so I find it really, really fascinating work. Everybody is really, really different. And so the Enneagram allows us to uncover the tools around change and systems and new habits that maybe don't work for everybody the same way. Right? And so I just really love this work of individualizing change. To the person and their unique identity. And so, yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Okay. So this is interesting because like obviously like I've done human design. Thank you Kareen. Shout out to her. That was a great gift. Done Strength Finders [00:06:00] 2.0. Super awesome. That's how my husband and I even got together cuz we're like, what are your top five?

But what I'm gathering from you on the enneagram is it's more like how you handle change habits and like, It's a, it seems to be a little bit more nuanced in that way versus like, this is how you like string finders. Like this is what you really like thrive in as far as like leadership or showing up in the world.

Human design kind of makes me realize, like, that's why I get so much shit done, but like how I get shit down is like the Enneagram thing. 

Erin Braute: Yeah. It, it really helps us uncover our motivations, right? So behavior is often a learned skill that we develop out of previous habits, previous coping, or ultimately, you know whatever the context or the environment is asking of us, right?

That's why people can say like, I'm at different at work than I am at home. I'm different with [00:07:00] my friends than I am with my husband. It's because we don't take into context that we're really adaptable. Oriented learning beings. And so oftentimes, and, and I've been trained in the DISC assessment by Eric Briggs, the color profile, strength finders, you know, all of these tools that capture behavior in a context, but you change the context and you change the behaviors, right? We would see people who would go through major life changes, have a different DISC profile before a divorce and after a divorce, right? Yeah. And it was really hard to create sustainable change systems that work for folks when you're only looking at the behavior, the behaviors are really important, but they are last, and the Enneagram allowed me to get underneath the behavior and say, why did I even develop this need to do this thing in the first place?

Lesley Logan: This is [00:08:00] insane. Okay, so it's, okay, so, so essentially it's kind of like, it's like. It's like the, you know it's behind the curtain as opposed to like what, like what's on stage. 

Erin Braute: Yeah. Yes. We are the Wizard of Oz right now. 

Lesley Logan: So for people who, I'm sure my listeners, you know, please, when you show this episode, tell me what your Enneagram number is, because I find like anyone who knows it, like they know it, right?

They know it really well. I will be, I took this, I took the test before I could get on this call with you and it gave me like, It looks like I could be three numbers, so now I feel like I have to, as a recovering perfectionist, overachiever, I feel like I have to do it again. 

Erin Braute: Well, and that, here's another great thing, right? The tests are really inaccurate because they're trying to create a formulaic algorithmic experience around motivation. And motivation is rooted in things like coping, it's rooted in things like safety. It's rooted in things like [00:09:00] access and socioeconomic status and education and trauma and neuro divergence and, you know, oppression, and our personality is so much more complicated than our behaviors. And so these online tests are trying to take the same formula and they just don't work. The only test I recommend is called the RHETI . It's r h e t i. It's an acronym. And I can give you a link for it. It is the only test that has been empirically studied, and it is only about 46% accurate.

And so our, yep. Our job as people is to fill in the rest and really push in. So the Enneagram, unlike StrengthFinders, where I can read a book and take a quiz and it gives me the results, requires a deep level of self reflection, which not everybody has access to or the time [00:10:00] for. And so it might work well.

And that's where the enneagram is really strong in training situations. Lots of people are in their type in like a work training or with a professional or listening to a podcast or reading a book. Right? It's a deeper reflection because I wanna understand why. Let me give you an example, right? People learn the art of perfectionism and high achievement for multiple reasons, right?

And so there's several different archetypes in the Enneagram. If people listening know it, the type one, the type three, they're all sort of high achieving perfectionist types. But we wanna understand why the type three archetype is the driver around high quality and high achievement. High achievement.

Like, let's do all the things on the list and let's keep going, and has a really hard time somatically in my nervous system doing less because I'm geared to [00:11:00] doing all this stuff as the way to earn my love and my recognition. That's how maybe my parents saw me as a kid. I got good grades, I followed the rules.

I was captain of the cheerleading team, and oh, mom and dad said, good job. Good job. Right? That's how I got seen...(Lesley: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm definitely feeling that) the type one, the sort of, I don't like the word perfectionist. I like the word reformer, the person who never feels like anything's good enough, right?

It's just never enough. And so we learn perfectionistic tendencies by learning that I'm, I've learned as a kid, I'm not enough, right? Maybe I had a critical parent or a critical caretaker growing up. And so I learned that I always have to be better and better and better just to get ahead of the criticism.

Right? And that's how I'm protecting my worthiness. And so they look the same behaviorally. They would maybe get the same scores on a disc assessment or you know, something [00:12:00] Myers-Brigg. But underneath one is striving to control their worthiness, and one is striving to control how they're loved or seen or known.

Right? Hmm, 

Lesley Logan: that's so fascinating. This is really cool. So, so basically like for those listening, obviously we'll put the link below and they'll have a 46% chance of being accurate, and then the next step is, is to work with someone like you or to like read into it and kind of like go, oh, that seems like more like me and less like me. Obviously that requires self-reflection, as you mentioned earlier. 

Erin Braute: Yeah, I created a free typing guide. It's a digital download to walk people through. Start here. I have a YouTube site with panels of all of the types, resources, educational information. So if you're not the type of person that wants to read a book or to do this, you could do this by listening to some of these conversations or some of this theory and figure it out.

My [00:13:00] hope is to make typing accessible to folks, right? Yeah. So I give all of my secrets away, you know, in, in how I approach typing in this document in hopes that folks, you know, can fill it out. Or can find their way through and the link to that test is in there. Some people just wanna hit fast forward.

Some people are more assertive. (...) Yeah, it, you're right. It's, it's, um, and they can do a typing interview. I just highly recommend that people work with folks who are practiced in typing at pulling out their own identity and their own bias, because we get a lot of projection that happens in typing. I'd say about half of the people I type are sitting in a, in the wrong bucket, either because a therapist or someone or a friend, or we self-identified. It's complicated understanding. Our [00:14:00] subconscious motivations are hard. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I mean, and that's like, and the, the, the reason I'm interested in this whole thing is cuz like, I believe like doing something before you're ready is important to actually doing the thing you want to do. Like waiting for someone to walk up and like deem you worthy to do the thing is like, not gonna happen. Like, just like it's over. Right. And by the time it does, you were ready already. Like you were ready. You were on a meeting list a year ago and they didn't have a budget for you.

And so they're just wait like you were ready already. And so like, I, I really wanna encourage people listening to act as if they're the person already making the money. Or doing the thing because it helps you make decisions from a different place. That being said, easier said than done. And also I feel like that that comes with the type, it's easier for some or versus others.

And so kind of wanted to think about like how having these results can help people be more of themselves or do the thing that they're, that they have goals for. 

Erin Braute: I love that [00:15:00] because I think the Enneagram is perfectly in alignment with your sort of mission, vision, values around this work, right?

Because the Enneagram is a model of practice, it is not meant to be a typology where we sort of learn who we are. We sit in a box. It's a practice of returning to our whole selves. When we are kids, we don't have a distinct personality. We're a blank slate. We're all of these things. We're all of the types, we're all of the archetypes.

We do all of the things, and we learn as we develop that if I make myself smaller and I use a smaller subset of resources, I get to my safety or my contentment, or my happiness or my love faster, right? And so I shrink those coping. And so here I am a grown adult and I'm using outdated or narrow resources to move around the world, and the Enneagram just tells me where I am in the model and the resources I'm currently using.

And then [00:16:00] my work becomes a practice of how to add in and integrate these other tools. And it's centred in the integration of our head, heart, and body. And that's ultimately how I fell in love with it because it was such a holistic approach. Unlike all of these behavioral models, which trust me, I love as a behaviorist, which helped me understand what I do.

The Enneagram fed into all of that with the why I do it and where I might be limited and how I can expand and grow so that I can get back to, oh, this is the, who I already am. I just kind of lost my weight to her for a while. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so interesting. Now of course, obviously Brad and I are gonna have to do this and then probably, and, and it will be interesting to see how each one of us decides to go about doing it because ...(Erin: Exactly.)

It's so different. But it might explain, you know, um, uh, if you, obviously you're, you know, [00:17:00] the four tendencies, like, so like, um, I love those because I think it's an easy way for people to understand like why they do what they do. And like a short snippet, I'm an upholder 1000%, my husband has a true rebel, and then the book, it's like these two do not.

Go together. And I'm like, somehow we do, somehow we go really well together. So like there's there, there's a limitation there. And so I think it's really, um, I think this is really cool because not to like knock therapy, because I think therapy, whether it's talk or somatic, whatever it is, it's like very essential for all of us.

But it almost allows people to go inward on their own and kind of, and kind of figure themselves out in a way. And, and am I right or is it, is that? Yeah. 

Erin Braute: Yeah, you're totally right. And, and it, I think it allowed, at least for me to flip all of my work on its head, right? So I, before I was introduced to the Enneagram, I had a master's in public health and was focused on community behavior, right?

Community wellness, community behavior. And I worked [00:18:00] for almost a decade in developing educational information and behavior change around women in sexual health, and I was introduced to the Enneagram and it sort of blew the lid off of it for me of, oh, I'm missing parts. There's more to this than just like cognitive knowing and intellect and studying and theoretical foundations.

And it allowed me to evolve in my career. But it wasn't until I had kids, my daughter was two, my son was a newborn, where we started to recognize that my daughter had some differences, some challenges. She ended up being neurodiverse, she's on the autism spectrum. We have a lot of sensory issues, OCD, anxiety, emotional regulation, and it was so, so like, it kicked the door open for me and recognizing that I had all this knowledge around what it took to be present and to shift and to build [00:19:00] systems.

But it wasn't until I had this little being in my life who kicked against everything I knew that I actually learned to integrate what I knew into what I do, what I did. Hmm. And I had all of these things that I had to contend with around my personality that made it hard and also made me a fantastic mom for her. And so it wasn't, and at the same time, I'm getting my PhD in organizational psychology when all of this is happening and I'm like, okay, I have all this knowledge and this little girl is teaching me how to be in my body in a way no one had ever showed me in all of my expertise, and I'm like, here I am.

I have all this knowledge and all this access, and all this privilege. And this isn't just core basic information that's available. And it was something that I learned in her Neurodivergence work from Dr. Bruce Perry. I don't know if you're familiar with him. 

Lesley Logan: I have. I've heard of them. And I [00:20:00] just wanna take a pause because (Erin: Yeah) This might be the first time people are hearing about Neurodivergence. I know people have heard about autism, so can you just take a brief moment to explain what Neurodivergence is? 

Erin Braute: Yes. It's a more inclusive terminology that holds any, any differences in how the brain processes, right? So someone might say, I have ADD or ADHD or OCD or some of these other disorders that change the way my brain functions from a neurotypical, that's me.

My brain works exactly how it's intended, right? So, I'm neurotypical and the whole world is built around my neurotypical needs. Right? So neuro divergence is a really inclusive way to say anyone who doesn't fit that norm. And my daughter just happens to have multiple things that impact her fitting that norm.

Lesley Logan: Got it, got it. Thank you for, thank you for sharing that. Cause I think, um, I [00:21:00] only recently heard that word a like a year ago. And, um, I was very enthralled, but, and like, and excited about it because, There was, there's also like a neuro divergency with like hypermobility, like hypermobility can be a symbol of that.

And I was like, cuz I as a pilates instructor have a, gosh, there's just like a, a significant number of people who seem to be hyper mobile, but they're very tight, but they're very, they're hyper mobile. You know, when you're just like, what is going on? What is this thing? And so I've been wanting to, to go down that rabbit hole.

But anyways, I wanna go back to you, um, and your daughter, because I, first of all, like, like, if any, this is like such a, a cool. Not that it hasn't come with its own hardships, but like what a cool opportunity for your daughter to be, your daughter and for you to get to in integrate all this knowledge you have because otherwise it's just in your head and you're just like, I don't know, writing a paper or like observing things. But yes, I wasn't able to like take this knowledge you have and like see how you can work with it with [00:22:00] your daughter. 

Erin Braute: Yes, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And it, it brought it to a level of integration that I just recognized, especially in the personal professional development field, especially in corporate America and industry and entrepreneurs was missing.

Right. We, we over function and intellect, which it overuses our coping, it overuses our personality strategy and we get burnt out and we don't understand why. And then we wonder why can't I make change? I want to work out more. I wanna eat better. I wanna sleep better. But there's all these things that get in my way and I, I don't know why.

And then we go back to that, that coping strategy that says, well, it must be that I'm not working hard enough. Hey, type one, right? Like, I should just, I'm not good enough at it yet. And I use my critical voice and shame to push myself harder. Or the type three that's like, I [00:23:00] just need to have more hours of the day. And I use the bootstrap strap mentality and I, and I just push through. 

Lesley Logan: Wait, is that the type right three? Is that, did you say the type three? Yeah. 

Erin Braute: Yep. Yep. And so all of that just lifts us even further into the habits that aren't serving us. And so it was trauma informed parenting through the lens of Neurodivergence that I learned Dr. Bruce Perry's work around, it's a, I drew up for you cuz it's sometimes easier to see. It's a, it's a triangle and he talks about it in terms of being able to regulate, reconnect reason, and in society we focus solely on this top model. The reasoning, the problem solving, right? And that's a lot of what we do.

In therapy or in that kind of work where in trauma informed work, it's all good in the body, right? The, the somatics and some of the beautiful things I've already heard you [00:24:00] talking about in other episodes and I'm like, oh, I love this. But it's often overlooked. Most people I talk to don't even understand about how to get in their body, let alone to do the next work around reconnecting with myself and my belonging before I get into the problem solving.

Lesley Logan: You were 100% correct because I had a somatic therapist and she kept saying like, where do you feel this in your body? I'm like, are you, where do you want me to feel it? Like, yeah, right. What do you want me to, I don't know, I'm, I don't, I feel the chair I'm sitting on, like, I'm not really sure. And it took me forever to like, actually, and, and it was frustrating cuz as a implies instructor, of course the whole thing is connection, which of course is why I've been like, got so obsessed with Pilates, like my story, that I didn't know at the time, but like years later when I looked back I'm like, why did I fall in love with this so much? It was because the first moment I did Pilates was the first time I actually felt like I was inside my body. Like it was the only time, right. That I'd ever felt that.

Right. Because I remember like going, I'm standing here, I'm like, what am I standing on? Like, am I standing in my feet? Like do I [00:25:00] feel the ground? You know? And so it was this way, it became this like mission for me to figure out, cuz it helped me connect to myself. So I find this, I just looked up, um, Because I knew the name.

I've read what happened to you. I think that is one of his most accessible books for people to understand. Yes. The work that's right. That he does. 

Erin Braute: That's right. That is absolutely right.

Lesley Logan: So, um, what, so obviously how old is your daughter now?...(Erin: She's eight.) She's eight. Okay. So six years of this. But like, I wanna go back to, you know, a couple years, a few years back when you were like figuring this out and you're seeing these signs, like what did it take for you? Like, how did you become the mom that could, you know what I mean?

Because like, there's so many parents listening to this and maybe their kid is somewhere on that spectrum or, and if I use the wrong words, people please, like, you can correct me, but don't be mean to me. Um, I, I wanna learn, but like, That may not under, like, they know that they need to do something different, but like [00:26:00] where do they go and how did you Be It Till You See It, cuz now, I mean obviously it probably feels like it's not easy to be a parent to, to someone, but at all in, in any way.

But as, uh, the, a parent in this world where the world is meant for people like you and not your daughter. 

Erin Braute: Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful question. And whether or not you're parenting a neurotypical or a neuro divergent kiddo, we run through the same challenges because they're a reflection of our own pinches, our own agitators, our own triggers, the things that hit the parts of our identity that are trying to protect us, but don't serve us.

And that's why the Enneagram, for me, becomes the thread through all of this. How I regulate, how I reconnect, how I reason is reflective of my archetype, my personality, my motivations. So you and I wouldn't do this work the same way, but often behavioral work is given this sort of big umbrella that says, do these things right and it should work.

And [00:27:00] then we go back into, some of them do and some of them don't. And when they don't, is it me? Am I doing something wrong? Right? And so I think about this like trying on jeans, right? We're not the sisterhood of the traveling pants. The same pair of pants don't fit us. Yes, we have to be empowered to go in the dressing room and try them all on, and then we have to be empowered to take them off when they don't fit.

And so the thing that helped for me was I had a lot of knowledge. I, I already had the muscles around self-awareness and that's where I tell people to start. Always, I tell people to start with a noticing practice, and I have a free resource that I can link to folks that can help start. What does that mean?

Right? It's just this practice of learning to pay attention to ourselves again, because so much of it goes into our subconscious, our habit, right? So I already had that deep knowledge. I was very fortunate in that what I didn't have was [00:28:00] the skills to self-regulate. Based on what I knew to be true about myself.

And so my agitators, my stressors as a Type seven on the enneagram was I wasn't very patient. I didn't like to be told no. I was onto the next thing. I had a really hot energy. And when you're dealing with medical providers and evaluations and insurance companies and meltdowns that happen when you are in the middle of a grocery store and I can't control it.

I had to work on those things that I wasn't good at, right? Being patient, you know, managing the tenderness that came up for me all required my own self-regulation. So getting into my body, those grounding practices that were really, really important. And then I had to follow it with some good systems, some self-management systems.

How do I build the life? That works for [00:29:00] us, right? And I had a big corporate job. I was running three divisions of a national health system, and I had to decide, do I go to work and live in their system? Or do I change my career trajectory after two decades and build a life that's in service to my kid and my husband and my newborn.

And I chose that route and it was really hard 

Lesley Logan: I think first of all, like super brave. I don't know if your Enneagram puts you in that position to make that brave decision E more easily than others, but like, I, I just wanna say like, good for you. And also like to every woman listening, every, like, that's a big decision and sure didn't come lightly, but you did it.

And what was that? What was that? Did it, what, what were the struggles there and like, and how far on the other side do you feel you are on that, that you feel like you've gotten to where you wanna be at this point? Cuz it's been about what, six years? 

Erin Braute: It's been about six years. I, I was really tender. I, all of my identity, I'm an over function and an overachiever.

[00:30:00] All of my identity was wrapped up in that I was on a v I P track or a A V I P track, a VP track like I wanted ( Lesley: Yeah) the job, 

Lesley Logan: vip, all the things. Yeah. 

Erin Braute: And so I was tender and, and I didn't, I don't do this perfectly and I made a, a really dumb decision and enrolled in a PhD program cuz I thought, well I needed a story to tell the corporate world why I was taking a break from work and so I'm gonna go get this PhD.

Like it's some easy thing while I'm managing a newborn, a two year old who was recently diagnosed with autism. Right? Smart. So we make mistakes and that's. Honestly, it's really typical, my personality if you, as you sort of get to know it, but the work becomes recovering from it, right? The work becomes how do I return to myself?

And so I made the commitment to do this, but I had to [00:31:00] change about two years in of who I was doing it for. Um, I fell into coaching. I've been doing coaching for businesses and teams in corporate for a long time and I, I was doing it for myself and was really good at it and was really successful, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna finish this PhD for me, but not because I'm trying to prove anything to anybody.

So I take breaks whenever life is hard with my kids. I've taken six months off at a time. Finishing for me isn't about crossing the finish line at any given time. It's about finishing for myself and, and being proud of the work that I'm doing. And so it's slower, it's messier, but it's, I'm not proving anything to myself anymore.

Lesley Logan: Well, and it sounds like because, because of your, obviously you have your amazing degrees, so let's just be real, but also because of your knowledge of how, of who you are. First with this Enneagram tool, it's helping you understand why you're doing these [00:32:00] things, like why it was so important to you, and then maybe also allowing you to give yourself permission to change the reason you're doing it to, to reframe that.

Yes. And so I think it just comes, keeps coming back to like the more we know ourselves, and not just like what we do, but like why we do it. Yeah. The easier it is for us to show up in the world the way that we want to. 

Erin Braute: You got it. You got it. That's it. It sounds so simple. It's the hardest work we will ever do because we're undoing years and years and years of sort of born in habits in our body that are tied to the way we feel safe in the world.

Right? Yeah. So, Let me give your listeners a tangible example cuz it's like, okay, what does this even mean? I was working with this woman who IDE self-identified as a perfectionist, right? And she was such a perfectionist that she struggled to use her voice at work [00:33:00] and not using her voice at work. Got her to the point where she hated her job.

And so she came to me cuz she wanted to find a new job. She thought she needed to change careers. And I was like, okay, before we tackle this, right, that's the behavior. That's the action. Let's come underneath that. Figured out that she connected to the type one that she was, had these perfectionist tendencies that she had, this deep, critical voice that told her that she wasn't good enough, a lot.

And she developed this real inability to make mistakes. Right. Mistakes meant I was bad and that I might get criticized and that I was unsafe or unlovable, right? And so I don't make mistakes. My whole body sort of freezes in these situations, therefore I don't use my voice. Right. So you think logically the work is to say, let, let's work on roleplaying and helping you feel more comfortable using your voice at work.

Absolutely not. That's not what we do. That is the [00:34:00] last thing we do. That's why the behavior comes last. We have to feed the formula. So we found the safest place for her, which was at home with her kids, and we tried to figure out how. How she could make mistakes at home. She's a perfectionist. She likes everything in a certain way.

And so she started letting her two and four year old help her put away the dishes and her, her four-year-old would take the dishes or take the silverware, open the drawer and just dump them in. And her work was to let the kid close the drawer and leave it, and she had to do all that somatic work. The grounding, the breath work, the laughing, the dancing, the playfulness, right?

All. All of this work to allow her to be able to self-regulate this mistake that was telling her body mistakes are not okay. And eventually she got to the point where she could live with the messes with the kids. She could leave the dishes in the sink overnight. She could let her kiddos help her. And more and more and more, her body started to [00:35:00] feel safe around mistakes.

To the point where she could use her voice at work. Took her a couple of months. But she got there 

Lesley Logan: That's a be it till you see it kind of a thing. It's like she's practicing somewhere so she can do the thing. She went, oh wait, I love this. 

Erin Braute: Yes, so excited. That's her. That's exactly what it is.

That's exactly what it is. But we have to remember that we have to practice where we're already comfortable, where we're already safe, or where we already trust ourselves. And so much of habit change wants us to practice where we're unsafe and all that does is ramp up. Are old coping, all that does is put into overdrive what's already burnt out.

Yeah. You're, 

Lesley Logan: I mean, like, um, I did, I studied Tiny Habits with BJ Fogg and um, it is, and and I see it all the time. Like I'll see it in like, you know, people, they'll sign up for my Palis platform and then they don't use it every day. Right, right. Because that's what they said they do. So they quit it cuz they're not good enough.

It's like actually like, [00:36:00] I really just want you to use it for five minutes. And in fact, if that's too much, I just want you to log in and press play. Like that's Yes. You know, I just want you, you are used to gonna the computer just do that. And like, we ha but we're, it is, and I don't know if it's like, if it's all the types of engram, but like majority of people, it's like, oh, I said I'm gonna do this huge thing I've never done, I don't do.

Mm-hmm. Or it's been a long time. And then we get upset at ourselves when we can't meet that because it is impossible to meet that every single day. 

Erin Braute: You got it. You got it. And that is the difference between behavior and identity, right? Mm-hmm. Like behavior in so much of behavior change says like, we're gonna go hike the Grand Canyon and, and we sort of, Look at the Grand Canyon and the vastness, and we get ready to hike it, but we sort of forget that in order to get to the other side, I have to look down and like take the first few steps.

And that's exactly what you're helping people do. It's like, just get in and logged in and hit play. Don't worry about being a Pilates pro in 30 days. Like just [00:37:00] get in the system. Um, but so many people look at, you know, the Pilates Pro and are like, oh, I'll never be there, so I just won't start in the first place.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, Erin, I could keep talking to you because I just feel like we've, like, only touched the surface and I, I feel like there's some other topics I'm gonna have to have you back on. Um, so everyone listening, you'll have to just like, let us know where you, where you want us to dive in deeper on the next time, cuz we'll absolutely have our back.

We're gonna take a brief break, find out where people can find you, follow you in just a moment. All right, Aaron, where do you hang out? Where can people work with you, coach with you, you know, all the things. 

Erin Braute: You can check me out on living the Enneagram. Uh, on Instagram, I load up Instagram with, uh, concepts, content practices, journal prompts, free resources.

I want the Enneagram and behavior change and it's roots and identity to be as accessible for. For folks [00:38:00] as possible. So if you aren't the type of person that likes coaching or can't afford coaching, I want you to have access to be able to implement in, uh, the link in my profile on Instagram. I have tons of free resources, a YouTube channel, free typing guide.

Reading lists, all this kind of stuff to sort of get you going. And then if you're somebody who does like working with someone, having someone sort of block the path or you wanna get there faster, you can check me out on living the enneagram.com. Uh, and about, uh, the coaching, the one-on-one or group coaching that I do with folks.

Wonderful. 

Lesley Logan: Okay. Before I let you go, I mean, you, you've been in so many amazing words, but bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us? 

Erin Braute: Yes. I. I, I was listening and thinking about these and I was like, okay, there's so many, uh, recommendations that I would give.

But the thing that I would recommend for folks to start practicing, its four steps and it's a practice of recovery. [00:39:00] Um, we know that in relationship research that 69% of the problems that we face with other people in life are unsolvable and. We spend so much time looking for fixes and not enough time learning how to manage and cycle through.

And so this is a practice of cycling, right? And the steps are to notice, to name, to recover, and to repair. And the noticing is paying attention to me. This is self-awareness. My Enneagram type, who I am, um, just even paying attention to the behavior that I have and naming it is making meaning of what I do.

Right. How does this tie to my identity? Maybe it doesn't, but maybe it does. Right? Maybe I. I'm not using my voice because I struggle with making mistakes. And if I can't change something tied to my identity, if I can't name it. Mm-hmm. And then I have to recover, get in my body, be with myself. Meet my own [00:40:00] needs and then I repair, I change the behavior.

I set a boundary. I use my voice. I, you know, have a conversation with my spouse or my kiddos that say, you know, I wanna do this differently and this is what it looks like. But this is a sort of cyclical of how I move through the things that I can't solve. Because I am who I am. I'm not a problem to be solved as a human.

Uh, it's moving through the things that, you know. Require us to sort of rub off our rough edges on other people. Uh, and so this notice name, recover, repair is really helpful in doing that. Oh, 

Lesley Logan: I love that. I really do. I love it. I love because as soon as I heard you say 60%, 69% of the problems are unsolvable.

I'm like, oh, well that sucks. But, but thank you for this tool that can help us. And I think, um, it, you know, I'm sure you listened to a, um, a few episodes bef. We're recording this on a different date, but from the recording. Date, um, Dr. Bender was talking about like, too [00:41:00] often we try to reason. Mm-hmm. And this is very different than reasoning, cuz reasoning is like projecting looking outward.

Mm-hmm. Like trying to figure out other people. And this is more like going inward and trying to understand yourself and what you can do on, on naming it so you can get into your body and then repair it. I l. Aaron, you're incredible. Thank you so much for being here. You guys. How are we going to lose this in your life?

What? What are your takeaways? Tag Living the Igram Tag the Be It Pod. Share this with a friend who needs to hear it. A and until next time, be it till you see it. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be Until You See a Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day. Be it till You see. It is a production of [00:42:00] The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Kroll.

Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Deeno. Our 

Brad Crowell: theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist John Franco Trophy. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Samina Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Harko for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Join Lesley Logan as she delves into the transformative magic of Pilates and the joy of personal growth. In this episode, Lesley shares her journey of embracing self-care and listening to her body. Be inspired to prioritize your well-being, empowering you to find wins both big or small in your life. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The significance of celebrating wins and inspiring others.
• The magic of Pilates and its impact on mind-body connections.
• Overcoming obstacles and finding joy in unexpected moments.
• The importance of taking time off and listening to your body. 

Episode References/Links:

• Contrology Ladder Barrel Equipment

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan 0:01  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:01  

Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, Be It babe! How are you? Happy Fuck Yeah Friday! Oh my goodness, where is this month going? It is flying frickin by, I can't even believe it. So as you know, this is a quickie episode where we just share wins of our listeners, our members and then one of mine to inspire you to celebrate the wins in your life and then hopefully that has a domino effect of like everybody winning and around you because, like, we can inspire people if you're like actually shouting it, like, oh my god, guess what my win of the week is, people go, oh, what's my win of the week, like, you have no idea how impactful that could be. So I want you to share your wins. So here is a couple wins from some of our peeps. Alright, so, Megan from eLevate round three. She said I didn't over plan my private session for today. I just let it be what it was. A private session client of mine said, I just realized it's like all the same moves you have me do. You just put me in different places and it just feels a little different. I'm like, Yes, that is the magic of Pilates. I'm so glad you put that together. And she said that is the magic of you. lol. It's cute that she thinks highly of me. But I was really excited about the conversation and that those connections were happening. Sometimes overthink it all but it's really cool when I can just do the thing and I don't realize I'm doing it how it's intended. Ooh, I could not feel more like a winner. I'm feeling the FYF energy today. I love that Megan so much. It's so true. We can like overthink, over cue, overcorrect the method and then like people don't actually get the benefit of feeling it and that mind body connection. That's something that we work with with our eLevate people all the time. So way to do it in the first month of eLevate already your clients are seeing how the magic of you and Pilates is together. Our next winner of the week is from Michelle Brickell. She is, Brickner, she is an Agency member. And she said, my ladder barrel is here. I really can't think of a better win I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I'd have a ladder of my very own also have been able to get on one since my my city studio closed for COVID. So I have to limit my movement now. I can't wait to get in and play. I got a new client this week and all my summer clients have been returning from Florida. So this week has felt like one big family reunion. That is so cool, Michelle. as someone who has a lot of barrel. You know what? I know it's bulky guys, it takes a lot of weird space and you're like it doesn't do all the things that a reformer Kelly could do. But holy frickin Molly, I love mine. And Michelle got the same one that I have. It's phenomenal. If you ever are in need of Pilates equipment, we do have affiliate links, so just hit us up. Alright. My win, my win. So, my win is a couple wins. First of all, the second anniversary of the podcast is next week, and I just can't even frickin believe it. Not only is this podcast still growing and growing and growing, but we've had like some amazing people like want to be on the show or gain some new sponsors and things like that. So that is a huge, awesome win. It's also not solely mine, because it requires a massive team. If you ever listen to the credits, like how many people are a part of this show. It's incredible. So big thanks to my team because we couldn't even be one week away from our big anniversary without you. My other win is this. So Brad was gone for camping trip. And there was like a moment where he's like, Are you sure you want to go? And then I was like, How can I go? I could probably just go into town like to get on the internet. Like there's just one call I have to do and I was like, No, I actually just want to stay home and be by myself. And so Tuesday night when he was gone was, I realized the first Tuesday, the first night I was alone in my house in months. And I did absolutely nothing, I didn't, I had tons of work I could do, tons of things that needed to get done. And instead I was like I'm taking the fucking night off. I am binging out on a TV show. I just have like it's just pure pleasure for fun not like gonna change my life. Shout it to the ultimatum. It's frickin phenomenal. I love dating shows. This one's even more amazing. And then on Wednesday, I was feeling a little like just my body felt a little rundown. I think I'm just getting back into my workouts from being gone and everything and I just like kicked my own fast on my own body session on Tuesday. So I was like, oh, maybe I'll skip the workout. I don't have a car. Like I'm not, you know, like it's okay. You know? I can skip today's workout with my teammates and I was like, buy like there's this pull on me that was like, I don't want to skip it. And so even though I don't have car I like reached out, asked for help. I asked first if someone could give me a ride to or from, and I met and I made it happen and I got there. And you know what? I didn't regret it. I felt so much better today when I woke up. And so I just want to share this with you because it is okay to listen to your body and talk yourself out of a workout that you wanted to do. But it's also okay to like actually talk yourself back into it. And it's so important, the more you listen to your bodies that you'll know, when you should talk yourself back into the thing that you're like, I just don't want to do it. So anyways, two wins, which is like one just like totally allowing myself to just like, I felt like a 22 year old again, just like binging out and watching a dating show. And then also like being a fucking adult the next day and going you know what I do want to work out. It's just there's a lot of obstacles, I got to figure out and I'm going to get there and if I can figure them out and I did that so wins all around. If you're like Lesley, I don't have any wins. I want you to hear like anything can be a win, there are gonna be tons of obstacles in your life to get things done including this FYF that I'm having to do without, like, with the lack of internet, which is the same problem from last week. So, there are times when you overcome those obstacles to still get the thing done. That is in 10 times the win. And these wins when I often hear from people it doesn't feel like a win if it wasn't perfect or if I didn't do it all on my own. That is some BS. It is a win. Anytime you show up and beat your fucking self, that is a win, so... love you so much. Thank you for being here. If this is your first Episode, Hello, welcome to FYF! Make sure you go through the whole collection of amazing interviews and recaps that we have and we'll be back next week celebrating the two year anniversary of this podcast. Thank you so much and go share your wins and impact others and then the whole world is a better place of people like feeling positive about all the things going on in their lives. We want to hear yours, so you can send them into the Be It podcast and until next time, Be It Till You See It!

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 6:58  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 6:58  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 6:58  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 6:58  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 6:58  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this episode, Lesley and Brad delve into the vital role of communication in reducing tension and stress at work, inspired by their conversation with Ryan-Mae McAvoy. Learn why open and honest dialogue, particularly with human resources (HR), can pave the way for smoother collaborations, problem-solving, and a positive work environment.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The transformative impact of speaking up and driving change.
• Debunking the misconception that HR only prioritizes the company’s interests.
• Navigating the challenges of handling difficult HR scenarios. 
• Embracing one’s multifaceted nature and celebrating individuality.
• Cultivating authenticity and embracing imperfections for personal and professional growth. 

Episode References/Links:

• Online Pilates Workshop
• Mullet Tour: Leeds UK
• West Coast Tour opc.me/tour
• Contrology Pilates Conference
• Cambodia Workshop http://lesleylogan.com/retreat
• Hot Sauna Space
• Episode 5 Amy Ledin

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

What a dream to work at a company where HR is actually like, valued. Like, it's almost like the Venn diagram of the company's needs, and the employees needs. And the human HR is like in the middle going, hey, how do we make sure everyone gets happy? So the job gets done?

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the people centric convo I had with Ryan-May McAvoy in our last episode. If you haven't yet listen to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen that one, and then come back and join us. Who would have thought that a conversation with the head of HR could have been so fun?

Brad Crowell 0:31  

She's a riot. 

Lesley Logan 0:32  

Try it. 

Brad Crowell 0:32  

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:33  

It's like, ah, I mean, like, she came totally like, I love the person who referred her, so, like, I'm in. Many of our listeners actually work for a company. Not everyone is meant to be like someone who like, you know, works for themselves. And she feels like an entrepreneur because she, like, has so many great ideas. And she's like, how do I take these amazing ideas, and then make it work with a company, but also like, I just really loved the permission she gave to anyone listening like a will help you whether you work for yourself, or you work for someone else. I just, I went way long, and I'm okay with that. 

Brad Crowell 1:05  

It was a good interview. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 1:08  

Today is June 22. If you're listening in real time, which is World Rainforest Day. I just want to like take a little brief side journey in the scenic route. It's also like National Kissing Day. And last week was like sneak a kiss day and I'm not sure who's making the days but like, apparently June is all about kissing. It's also pride month. So like we didn't actually announce at the end the month but I just wanna say Pride Month is going on. And I saw this amazing meme that says "Pride Month. I hope all the people who are homophobic have a super uncomfortable month." And I'm like, Yes, I hope you have a super uncomfortable one. Happy Pride Month. But also world rainforest day is as important as pride month because you guys the rainforests are why we get to breathe air. It's true. Whether or not you live near rainforest, you rely on the rainforest. So please do your share, to rock your life so that the rain forest can rock yours. So...

Brad Crowell 1:59  

Yeah, I think I was just looking at the statistics. The you know, with deforestation happening down in Brazil, it's really changing the dynamic of air quality around the world. Yeah, it's kind of insane. And I don't know why that's not seen as as like an important priority.

Lesley Logan 2:26  

Maybe outside the US people are talking about a lot. But like, I just know that what I've heard from the stuff that we like you and I have dove deep into, it's like, people are trying to get, you know, Brazil's government to like take care of its rainforest. And I don't know what the new person is doing. So I don't want to knock that person but the person before was a bit of a dick. And some shady fires were happening that. Oh, well, now we get to farm here. So at any rate, like Brazil, I love you. I love visiting you. I think it's amazing. You're also not the only rainforests. So I don't

Brad Crowell 2:59  

They're just the largest. And I wonder, since it's obviously like, an international resource. Like and their argument is like, you know, we need to do industrial stuff. I wonder if like we could buy their non-destruction of the rainforests?

Lesley Logan 3:18  

I don't know. That's an interesting question. We're not that podcast, though. So I'm gonna say like, y'all...

Brad Crowell 3:26  

This has been something that's been on my mind since I was in fourth grade.

Lesley Logan 3:29  

Brad has had this on his mind for a long time. So here is the thing, this is where you have to like pick and choose your thing that you're gonna dive into. And so you know, there's a million problems, at least on this planet, pick the problem that you're most dedicated to donate your money to that and, and you know, and then make people aware of this amazing day. And maybe they'll donate to this too. Anyways, wellbeing for state take care of the rainforest near you. And so also we are about to do a really fun, virtual OPC event with our OPC teachers with myself with some contributors. If you are into Pilates, you love to nerd out about Pilates, you want to do it online, then July is your best chance to do that with us. And so you want to go to opc.me/event. Speaking of July, we will actually be in the UK with an amazing business workshop and Pilates workshop. And at this point, probably will have opened up the doors for the few single ticket ala carte workshops you can buy. So you'll want to go to opc.me/uk to check out those options. Brad is going to join me, he's teaching the business workshops with me. 

Brad Crowell 4:42  

I'm excited about that, it's going to be a lot of fun!

Lesley Logan 4:44  

So excited. They're gonna love your accent. August, this summer tour, our West Coast tour, Hello, West Coast best coast. We're coming up your alley and we are going all the way to the top. So make sure you go to opc.me/tour to get all the information. And hello Poland. Hi, Poland, hello Europe. Basically, if you don't want to join me in the UK, then you need to join me in Poland. And by the way, the workshops are totally different. So you, you could do both. And it's going to be a lot of fun. It's my first time in Poland in over four years and we have the Contrology Conference, go to contrologypilatesconference.com to get your spot, there are limited spots available. And then October we will be in Cambodia. And it's lesleylogan.com/retreat for the retreat info because I'm really, I'm just so stoked. I'm so excited. I cannot wait to get back there. I gotta be honest, I love shay shui, but I was like, should we get flown to Cambodia instead? You know, like, I get to see the rest of the world too. But like, I miss going there several times a year, so I cannot wait to be there on this retreat, and then I get to hang out longer. So I'm super excited about that. Anyways. Yeah, before we dive into Ryan, we have an audience question to respond to.

Brad Crowell 5:54  

We do. This is from Megan (...). And she said, Hi, a while ago, I remember the link for the red light LL uses being in the show notes, but I couldn't find which episode that was in. It's the most beautiful red light I've ever seen. And if I'm going to relax and stare at a light, I feel like it should look beautiful. I was thinking of adding it to my wish list. Do you know the name of that company?

Lesley Logan 6:16  

I love this you guys, you can ask us any question you want. And this question is not even a long answer some super like, love. Ah, you should look beautiful in your red light and your light to everything you own can look beautiful, you do not have to have ugly red lights. So I do love this red light and you can go to beitpod.com/saunaspace. So sauna like a hot sauna space. And that will take you to the red light company that I got my red light from and I use it pretty much everyday we're in this house. Yep, she does. And when Brad is like, I don't know, like, you should sit in front of the red light.

Brad Crowell 6:56  

It's very calming. It also like helps with skin rejuvenation. They use it a lot for recovery for injuries and stuff for like, you know, skin injuries and stuff.

Lesley Logan 7:05  

It's why we don't look like we're 40 When we are.

Brad Crowell 7:07  

Yeah, so it's great for your face.

Lesley Logan 7:10  

I mean, there's a bunch of other awesome stuff with it. I just I love how I feel when I'm done.

Brad Crowell 7:15  

Yeah. And also like helps with your mind. You know, there's a lot of interesting stuff.

Lesley Logan 7:20  

Yeah, sometimes I play video games in front of it. And I don't even meditate. I just sit there and I'm like, this is what I want to do right now. But I'll be honest, like it has saved me from days where I feel like I just want to, which is actually gonna go into like this whole conversation we're about to have about Ryan, like, I just want to quit myself. Oh, can't do that. Well, I'll better turn this light on. And like 20 minutes later, I'm like, you know, it'd be really amazing. Let's do these five things. It's like, oh, it's like, whoa, we just switched, we literally flipped a switch. So

Brad Crowell 7:48  

Yeah, it's super calming. So if you're working in a stressful space, or you have a lot of stress in your world, getting a red light, you know, can actually be really beneficial for you and also like your mindset. So we are big fans of the one that we have called from sauna space. So go to beitpod.com/saunaspace.

Lesley Logan 8:09  

Yeah. And also Amy Ledin, who is Episode Five, Episode Seven, Episode Five, she actually has one of their setups as well. She is recovering. Like she's always in recovery of the cancer that she's had. Because it's come back a couple of times and so she every single day stands in front of her whole red light setup from them so there's a couple of different options you have.

Brad Crowell 8:31  

 Episode Five. I'm impressed.

Lesley Logan 8:39  

Every time we do this, guys, you have to, I wish you could see it, like, if you're watching me on YouTube you can but like I literally say a number and then Brad Google's to see if I was right and then he's always like, I'm if I'm ever wrong. I'm like, either an inverted number off or one off. I'm like so close. It's never, like, wow, (...) 100 episodes off. Anyways, Megan, put it on your wish list. Get this for yourself. It is awesome. And you will use it at this point. It cost me no money because I've always, I've used it every day. So anyways, you can send in your questions to the Be It Pod. I actually don't know where the email is. So just you know, DMS on Instagram or they'll put it in the show notes, I'm sure.

Brad Crowell 9:20  

Yeah, just sign up for the weekly newsletter and there's a link in there. Yeah. 

Okay, now let's talk about Ryan-Mae McAvoy. 

Lesley Logan 9:42  

What a name! 

Brad Crowell 9:43  

It's great name. I always get confused if it's MacAvoy or McAvoy because there's not an AC or this still pronounced exactly the same.

Lesley Logan 9:55  

It's a great question for her. You should ask it when I interviewed her.

Brad Crowell 10:00  

Can you confirm it's Ryan-Mae. 

Yeah, it's Ryan-Mae. 

Yeah, I know, but you never mentioned her last name during the interview, it's like, Okay, that's all right. With a diverse HR background, she offers a fresh perspective on human resources but recognizing the untapped potential in corporate environments, she is dedicated to driving positive change from the inside out striving to cultivate a workplace where employees are valued, supported and inspired to reach their full potential. So first thing before we even jump into our ideas on like, what we liked about the conversation, I just thought it was great to define HR. And this was the first time that I used

Lesley Logan 10:45  

I used to go Oh, my God, HR is coming, HR is calling, fuck my life.

Brad Crowell 10:49  

Right? Yeah, it's like, it's, I be in fucking SVU. Like, you know, the internal, you know, like, they're coming to get you. Internal Affairs. No, HR, the way she defines HR is that it's human operations. So anything that has to do with the humans in the company, and the operating like, operations around them. So, you know, she's talking about, obviously, like, the insurance side of things, and all the paperwork and all that kind of stuff, but also like, the mental well being. And she gave a couple of examples that I'm drawing a blank out at the moment, but I thought it was like, Oh, that's a different way to think about, you know, there should be somebody in the company, who is looking after the well being of the people in the company.

Lesley Logan 11:40  

I, because the the first corporation that I was at didn't have HR, like the CFO was kind of like, also acted as HR. And so we didn't really have an HR, like, if I wanted to complain about my boss, it was to my boss, so super fun. Doesn't work. And then, and then, when I worked for a high end fitness company, there was HR, but like, man, it was like, you talk to them, like, I have to write this person up. That's not good enough, right? (...) You haven't read them up every time like, and like, but since I've left, I've since heard that they have like, they have opportunities for life coaching, they've added in some amazing resources, it's very much more human centric. So when Ryan describe this, like I, oh, my God, what a dream to work at a company where HR is actually like, valued. Like, it's almost like the Venn diagram of the company's needs, and the employees needs. And the human HR is like in the middle going, hey, how do we make sure everyone gets happy? So the job gets done? And I just thought, I just really enjoyed her, like, how fun is she? I don't even want to work for a SaaS company. And I actually don't even know what they do. But I want I would like her to be my HR person.

Brad Crowell 12:56  

Yeah, well, after listening to her talk about how, like her approached HR, and how it's incorporated in their company, it actually reminded me a lot of our friend Eddie, because he actually, in his role, like he works for a security company. So it's a lot of, you know, men in, like, private security, where they're taken care of super high profile people. It's like, militant, you know, where the, it's effectively like police, but like, private, like privatized, and, you know, so all of the expectations that you might have around that idea, and his role in the company is to make sure that the people are able to function as human beings, you know, and so he goes around, and he, you know, can, he has the authority to give someone a week off if they need it, like, whatever it might be, or, you know, take someone out to lunch or whatever, and dig in and have these conversations, but I never actually, I always thought like, wow, what an epic role to play in a company, but I never thought about it as HR. And so actually, I think it might be aligned with HR.

Lesley Logan 14:11  

Yeah, well, I'm gonna dive into what I love. She talked about your relationship with yourself being it's the most permanent relationship to have. And so going back to the red light, it's like, sometimes I just wanna get the fuck away from myself. I'm like, I'm annoyed. I'm annoying myself. I am, but I can't leave me as far as this lifetime is a concern. So she said, it's really powerful, they'll walk away and like, and she talked about, like, so being the most permanent means that you're not like, you're not stuck. You're not concrete. You're not stuck as who you are, but you don't get to leave you so. So you really do need to take time to get to know yourself and she is really focused on self-improvement, like making sure that every year she focuses on like, acknowledging what's going on and learning about how her wasn't her best self, what were her mistakes and then building up the good stuff and like acknowledging what the good stuff is like, the other day I was teaching my eLevate group and someone goes, I don't want to say like, I know that sounds really weird, but I want to say I'm so proud of myself. And I'm like, it should not be weird to say, I'm so fucking proud of myself. Like, it should be like, seen as like a Hurrah. Like, that's amazing, right? So I just love that she actually brought up like, getting to know yourself and being like, in this, really being amazing with the relationship with yourself as being awesome. And being it should be a priority. And you know, when you work for someone, or you maybe work for yourself, like sometimes you and I both at separate times, like I'm gonna get the hell out of here. Like I, I am not serving anybody in this moment. Like I need to go away. And it should not be like a strike on your amazingness at the job that you're at, it should be seen as like, okay, way to acknowledge that you aren't titrating right now you are not showing up in this amazing thing. And like, you need to go take yourself away. So you can like love, like, figure out what you need right now, what you need to like, take care of yourself right now. Titrate. This is what Brad's looking at right now. So titrate is like, do I need a walk right now? Do I need to take on more responsibility right now? Do I need to take on less responsibility right now? Here's how I'm going to use it in a sentence, because that's what everyone's gonna want to have. So I have these ag one, vitamin D drops. And I can put in a drop, or I can titrate and put in more drop, I can give myself more drops? Should I feel like I need them? It's called titrating. It's like, it's like a

Brad Crowell 16:40  

it's a science word for sure because there's not a single definition that talks about it in the way you are. Although there's a parallel.

Lesley Logan 16:48  

Yeah, no, I learned it at my breath work. And I also learned it from AG1 when they're like titrate, between one and five drops. So like it is a word people use, it's like a measurement. 

Brad Crowell 16:55  

It says to ascertain the amount of a constituent in a solution by measuring the volume of a known concentration of reagent required to complete a reaction with it.

Lesley Logan 17:12  

AKA, acknowledge if you need more or less time in the space that you're in, and go get yourself what you need (...)

Brad Crowell 17:20  

Yeah, so it looks like the sample is titrated at a pH near 10. With EDTA solution. (...) Oh, it is it is totally because the sample is titrated. You know, so it's hydrated, meaning it's, it's diluted, or it's you know, there's something that's being added into the thing. Yeah. So in this instance, you know, you were talking about

Lesley Logan 17:43  

giving yourself more or less of other things, so you can become the best version of yourself.

Brad Crowell 17:48  

you know, you're inserting something into the middle of the thing. Like taking a breather.

Lesley Logan 17:53  

The best the best word I could have used. I love that. In this example is great. Thank you. Yeah. What did you love?

Brad Crowell 18:02  

Okay, so she said to speak your truth. vocalize what you're not comfortable with. And I think that it's, especially in the corporate environment, it's easy to get, you know, like the, the tomatoes thrown to the person who stands up above the crowd, or the things everyone's to be Daisy, all that stuff. You know, and I mean, I worked in a very volatile environment where you just kept your fucking mouth shut.

Lesley Logan 18:29  

Your environment stressed me out, and I wasn't in there. 

Brad Crowell 18:31  

Yeah. Because if you, you know, and unless it was like, you know, that it was very infrequent that someone would ever push back because it was not really welcomed. And it just created stress. And that stress was never fun. So, but she said, you need to, it's important to, you know? She said, we need to speak up inside corporate walls to create change because there are misconceptions about HR, that they only care about the company. And she said, it's not true, because she's also an employee of the same company. So like, how can the employee of the company be only for the company and not for the employees who wouldn't be for herself? Right? So that's like the weirdness.

Lesley Logan 19:23  

I think that's like such a great like comeback to people who are like have a neg on HR, it's like, okay, but then I would literally be doing a disservice to my own self.

Brad Crowell 19:33  

Right. So obviously, you know, there's an ulterior motive because if she makes rules that don't make sense, then they're not gonna make sense for her either. So anyway, she said there's a human element what they do, and they deal with difficult situations, such as layoffs, terminations, performance issues, etc. But people don't get to those points without there being like, things along the way that will take them to the point of a layoff, termination or performance issue. And she said she can't solve problems that she doesn't know about. And so it's so important as a person who's working in an organization that has HR to go and speak to HR and say the things that need to be said, you know, and it's not a bitch best, but like, it's a, you know, again, just like we were talking about a week ago, with, you know, relationships, it's communication that's going to allow the easing of tension, the easing of stress. And what's really lovely about having someone who's in HR is that, you know, that you can schedule a meeting with them, and you can sit down and have a conversation about something that is bothering you.

Lesley Logan 20:42  

Oh, my goodness, you know, what the last company I worked for, outside of a courtroom, because I got subpoenaed. I was not working for them anymore. But I got subpoenaed, I had to go in. And I was sitting out there waiting to be my witness self. Trust me, I tried to get out of it. And the person who sat down next to me was the head of HR for the West Coast. And I was like, your job, just, I've just, like, felt like it fucking sucks. He's like, Well, this is not the highest point of my job (...) I was just like, can you just lose my number, like, just please do not call me in for this ever again. But I saw him as a human, I think for the first time ever. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wonder how my job would have been different if I had seen him as a human being? (...) I think I probably wouldn't use them in a different way. I think I probably would have stuck up a navigator for myself in a different way. And like, that's not his fault. Like, I had this like negative look on HR. And maybe like, it's part like, maybe we'll both take responsibility, like, he could have explained how he could have saved like, saved my ass some time. So that would have beeen nice. But I also like, when it comes to laying people off, just so you all know who are employees. It fucking sucks for the employer too. It costs so much money to hire train someone. It is way, way cheaper to have an employee who's with you for a really long time.

Brad Crowell 22:15  

And well, I mean, aside from that, and yes, of course, the financial side of it. The reality is that when you build relationships with team, so, you know, like, the dynamic of the whole team is gonna change. And, you know, especially if you like the person that you have to let go, like, that sucks.

Lesley Logan 22:33  

Yeah, like sometimes you're letting someone go, not because they're an idiot, or a bad human being, it's like, this is not the right role for you. 

Brad Crowell 22:41  

Or, I mean, it could be like, we know, we tried this initiative, and we're not gonna do it anymore. 

Lesley Logan 22:49  

Do you, like, our friend Michael, we were like getting on a podcast with him. And he's like, Oh, hold on. I just had to fire someone. Let me take a moment. And we were like, Oh, no problem. I've been there before. And he's like, my whole goal is that I like people know that they're getting fired like they should. It should not be a surprise, you know, and like. So typically, if your HR, your company or your boss has been doing their job, they've been getting feedback along the way. It's not a surprise. It should not be a surprise, but it's so sorry. This isn't working out. No, it still sucks. It still stings. It's so awful. But but you know, I just Ryan, love you. I wish I could have you on my HR team. I wish I could have an HR team. I think she offered her services and elecard. We'll get there. We'll get up, we'll get Ryan someday because she is not Ryan dreams like you are the standard. You are the I Want To Know Your Strength Finders and all the things you can write a description for the person that I'm hiring. Anyways, yeah, I loved it. It's so good. Let's do the Be It Action Items.

Brad Crowell 23:54  

Yeah, we'll be right back

All right. Now let's talk about those Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Ryan-Mae McAvoy. Do not label yourself as just one thing. She was talking about being a multifaceted human being. We're not robots, we aren't only doing the thing that we do at work all day long. No matter what your employer may want. You know, she said serve the version of you at the moment that serves you best. So, for example, she said, yeah, during the day at my job, I'm Ryan-Mae, the HR person, but I'm also you know, a wife. I'm also a cat lady. And I love Netflix with some mac and cheese.

Lesley Logan 25:02  

We have gluten free dairy free mac and cheese.

Brad Crowell 25:04  

Like it's amazing.

She said it's the seed of the garden to being more than just your job.

Lesley Logan 25:15  

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. Like, some people like they just like work themselves. 24/7 because they think that that's going to make them better at the job. But really, it's like your multifaceted self that makes you bet the best at the job.

Brad Crowell 25:29  

Yeah, it's it's very weird. I'm, I like fall straight into this trap. You know, for me, it's like, if I could work on the thing, 24/7 that I think that it's going to be, you know, I'm gonna move the ball forward or something like that. 

Lesley Logan 25:42  

I love that I caught you watch a superhero movie on your lunch break today. I think that's great. I think it like you need those pauses, you need to have any interest because it allows you to draw inspiration in different ways. And also like, you're not a fucking robot. You're a human being.

Brad Crowell 26:00  

It was also the weekend and we were working all weekend. But I did. I know I'm out this week. And that's why I was doing it.

Lesley Logan 26:06  

Yes, a little asterisks, hold on one second, one little moment. We do not work all weekend every weekend. Particular work weekend was a planned work weekend because of vacations prior to and after. Yeah. So there we go. Okay. Go back to your point.

Brad Crowell 26:23  

I don't think they're judging us. It's okay.

Lesley Logan 26:25  

No, I just think it's important for people to actually understand that, like you, it's part of you. We plan these things in so you (...)

Brad Crowell 26:33  

We work because we work for ourselves. You know, we and we want you know, y'all know, we went to Korea, we tagged on the because we were already over there was like, well, let's go take four days and actually take a break.

Lesley Logan 26:46  

And it ended up being six days.

Brad Crowell 26:48  

Well, right (...) The island of Jeju was was we were there for four days. Yeah. So the point is, we actually weren't working then, which would have been during the week. And so yeah, this week, and we're home. So like, Alright, let's do this.

Lesley Logan 27:03  

Let's get some stuff done. So break and go camping. Yeah. So I do love that Be It action item. I thought that was really great.

Brad Crowell 27:11  

So, I mean on that, what was your biggest takeaway?

Lesley Logan 27:13  

So she said, acknowledge and honor, even the bad parts, and I actually like, like, bad and air quotes, because she's like, acknowledged what these are, and learn what these parts are about ourselves that we're not gonna love. And then the more you deny the layers of yourself, that's what she said, the more you deny the layers of yourself, you become less authentic, in each version, and you can also become easily consumed. So she let her job consume her because, like she wanted to be liked. And so where there's a lot of work to be done, like, there's easy reasons for this. And it's like, you know, there are parts of ourselves that we're not the most excited to share that we're like, oh, God, people are gonna see this. But like, if you deny that part of yourself, or you hide it, or you like, whatever it is, it is easy to become more and more or less authentic.

Brad Crowell 28:01  

I mean, even in the day to day, it's not necessarily something you're like permanently denying. If you're having a shit day, it's okay to know that you're having a shit day.

Lesley Logan 28:11  

And also, like, I acknowledge at this point, like, I am not like, I don't like, I did not like who I was in one of the most recent finance means, I'm like, I don't want to be here. I don't like who I am. I want to go take a walk and I can't leave this meeting. I'm not enjoying it. Is this meeting over? Okay, it's done. Okay, thank you. Let's all try to figure out, I gotta figure out how to like myself in this meeting. I love for us and making sure that this meeting can be more fun. So anyways, be who you need to be in that moment and accept that sometimes it's not the best version of yourself. You know, that's a good quotable. I hope our team put it on a card so we can share that shit because it is okay to not be 100% amazingly awesome all the time. You can titrate and be the best version of yourself that you can be in that moment.

Brad Crowell 29:20  

You can titrate

Lesley Logan 29:25  

Ryan-Mae thanks for being the bestest. So excited. You guys. We actually have another HR person coming up in the lineup, and it's a whole different topic. And I got to connect the two of them and I'm like, sick. I'm like, okay, but hold on. Did you chat what's going on? Like, I'm really excited about it. Because it's a whole it's a whole new topics all about grief, which I'm super stoked about. So thank you, Ryan for setting the stage for what HR could look like in this world. Thank you for being amazing. Keep us posted on everything you're doing. Everyone else, How are you when you use these tips in your life? We want to know. Tag the Be It pod, tag Ryan-Mae, she's like huge on LinkedIn. So, you know, head over there. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 29:59  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell

Lesley Logan 29:59  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 29:59  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 29:59  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 29:59  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Gain actionable insights into her groundbreaking approaches, empowering employees, and reshaping corporate culture. Join Lesley with guest Ryan-Mae on this podcast episode to discover the keys to creating a forward-thinking, employee-centric organization.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why more people need to speak up inside corporate walls?
• The human element in what HR does.
• Are you speaking your truth to the right people in the company?
• How to finding the self you need to serve in that moment.
• Why intent is a huge thing in the people space. 

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Ryan-Mae on LinkedIn
• Follow Ryan-Mae on IG
• Check out Blackthorn.io
• Melissa Doman Book
• Check out Good Call New York

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: [00:00:00] We build up, like you said, we build up these stories good, bad, in between and it's, it's really a disservice to our own self to be like, but can I change the story? What? Like, how can I change the story? Some things can't change. There's loss, there's events that happen, but also you can look at that and say, okay, but what can I do now?

And that's really what I'm just trying to put out there is what can you do now? And how can you change and how do you be more than just what people say you are.

Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear.

Each week, my guest will bring bold, [00:01:00] executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 

All right, babe, how are you? Welcome to Be It Till You See It interview. I am so thrilled for this interview this week because it actually goes on like's little journey and I'm really excited for it because when I first was introduced to this person I was like, you know, that could be cool. And then I was like reading about her and I was doing a little bit of research. I'm like, you know what? Actually I think this is really cool because I too often have had people who've like, like said goodbye to the nine to five middle finger to the boss. Peace out. I'm on my own. I'm being until I see it.

But we don't often interview people who are like, yeah, you can work for a place and you can actually like tell people that you would like it to be a little bit more like this, or you could be a little more like this. And also, what I'm really excited for you to hear is the humanness that can be at a corporate job. It's possible. I'm not saying it's happening at your [00:02:00] job, but it can. And maybe there's a way that you can make that happen or maybe this interview will help you seek that out. And we also talk about so many other things. This is like a nice little fun conversation that I am thrilled for you to listen to.

Ryan MaE McAvoy is our guest. Melissa Doman is the person who introduced me to her. Her interview is in the show notes. It's all about like, why we need to talk about mental health at work. So, today's interview is just fun. It's a lot of fun. I learned a lot. I, I think as a person who doesn't work at a corporation, I have my own corporation.

And I don't yet have like a whole HR team. But you know, we're growing into that space, as a person on that side of it, I felt like this interview gave me a lot of insight on like, what is possible, like what I can create. Because I've gotta be honest, like when I thought, oh gosh, we have to have HR team.

Okay, gotta button it up, gotta find someone who's like, you know, you know, here's your paperwork. But that's not true. So it doesn't have to be that way. And [00:03:00] we all listen to this podcast whether you work for yourself, wanna work for yourself, or you work for someone else. We can't actually be the change that we wanna see in places where people get to be more human being, which is I don't think a phrase, but I'm gonna make it one. So here is Ryan Mae McAvoy. I hope you enjoy the conversation. I hope you have fun. I hope you feel like you're talking with two girlfriends and we wanna know what you said on the other side of it. And then her Be It action item is just really awesome.

It's actually something I think we all need to do, no matter who you are, where you work, what you're up to, and what you wanna be it until you see it. Here's Ryan Mae McAvoy.

Alright. Right. Be it babe. Here's the deal. I'm so excited because today's guest is actually a referral from another past guest. And, um, y'all remember you loved her. I'm now losing my voice because, I'm picking up on our guest today, Vegas Voice, the sexy. Yeah. So, um, We're just gonna blame it on Vegas. She was just in Vegas.

I live in Vegas and sometimes that casino just takes your voice away. Anyways, today's guest is Ryan Maid McEvoy, and what I'm so excited for [00:04:00] you to hear about her is we often have entrepreneurs, people who've like left the nine to five goodbye, peace out word to your mother. I'm working for myself now, and today's guest is actually like, no, I'm in it.

I'm in the space and I'm making it work, uh, for me and I really wanted to share that cuz not everyone has that opportunity or wants to. So, Ryan May, can you tell everyone who you are and what you're rocking at? 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Yeah, I am Ryan May McEvoy. Uh, my corporate self is the head of people for blackor.io. We are a SaaS company based out of New York.

Uh, I say that loosely. We actually don't have an office. We're very much like work where you are. Um, I have been doing kind of HR plops in many, many fashions in a very weird, non-traditional way. I worked at an animal hospital for several years. I worked at a ski area. I moved to the Silicon Valley and kind of got that like, oh, so you're good at like being an EA and did that to like break back into the people space, um, and really just not.

Having that like, oh, I just wanna [00:05:00] be like self-employed and do the van life. And it's, I think we miss a lot of, like corporate still has a lot of potential and we need people to speak up inside corporate walls to change. Not because we need to everybody to be in corporate, but there still has to be. It's always like, there's always gonna need to be the firefighters, the policemen, the garbagemen.

Everybody has a spot. And so what do we do in our ourselves to make that spot as cool and as like open and wonderful as possible? 

Lesley Logan: Oh my God, I love this. And also so much to like things that I'm gonna highlight there. Um, especially because, um, First of all, I, my friend was in a college, like, I'm gonna go work in hr.

And I'm like, what does that even mean? Like, what does that, what do you do? Like make sure people like clocked in and out on time, like signed their contracts. Like you a babysitter? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. But also like what sounds so cool about hr? Is that you have, you've been able to like kind of cool into different unique spaces.

Like it sounds like you've been able to [00:06:00] like work in the, an animal hospital, but then now you work for this other company and you can kind of like. Put yourself in a creative space if you want to. But I wanna highlight, you said this, you're changing the way you're changing the corporate world from where you are.

Like I think people are like, if I leave it and I go Van Life it, which by the way, the New York Times, the whole article on like, is Van Life really awesome? And the girl's like, this is terrible. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I feel like, like day three, I'd be like, so this, my Instagram looks fire, but I'm gonna need like, To just go home. (Lesley: Yeah.) I'd be like, we made it to Reno guys. Time to just pack it back, pack it back to the West coast. 

Lesley Logan: Um, but um, but I, I love that because I think often we're like, oh, I have to leave to make things better. But actually you can, things don't change if you leave, like sometimes we, sometimes it is a better, better option to stay and like make the changes from where, where you are if it's possible.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: If it's possible. There's a couple things I really wanna capture on that. Um, I think leaving does have a powerful impact. Um, and it doesn't mean leaving has to be leaving the [00:07:00] corporate world, leaving the, the space you're in. Um, I love tech. I love startup. I think it's a very creative new age, kind of.

There's cool ideas we're trying to problem solve, um, but sometimes it is leaving. I left an employer before Black Thorn, uh, that I loved. Personal relationships. I, these are people I still hold near and dear to my heart. I have a lot of love for them, and I had amazing mentors that came in. I'm like, but what about you?

Like, you are not happy. This isn't filling your cup. And I think sometimes you do have to leave to like do that change. And you have to find your spot and something I, I actually highlighted this on LinkedIn a while ago. Our leadership team and our team is amazing for me. It's incredible. It is. It works for me.

It is the best thing. Are there people, even in the HR worlds, I'm like, oh no, you, you would be so unhappy. We wouldn't be stoked on you. That's not a fit. And I think that's where change comes from is being able to say, why does this work for me? But if it doesn't work for you, and that's [00:08:00] okay. Um, and now finding my personal philosophy on HR is, Hrs now turning into people ops and we're touching a lot more stuff.

And I always joke, there's like old school HR and I think of the lady from Monsters Inc. Where she's like, where's your paperwork? And that's still really like kind of the, the brand we have in a lot of places. And it's so much, it's so much time like trying to resell yourself. Yeah. And then be like, it's not, it's not just paperwork, it's not just compliance.

It's helping people get benefits from medical care. It's talking about diversity, inclusion, and every day is a new adventure and every day is learning and finding new things. Even last week we had an employee highlight something I, I don't wanna share cuz I wanna respect their journey, but I was like, it's not even on my radar.

I didn't even think about how are we not talking about this? And I. I do tend to get fired up. So now I'm like, this is my cause and I'm gonna go like talk to everybody about it so we can fix this [00:09:00] problem. But I think that's where people mistake us for like, oh, we're just checking your time card. We're just making sure you're not doing things.

Lesley Logan: So, okay. This is so fascinating because like I think in every industry, no matter who's listening and where are they work, like there's the old guard of whatever that job was and then, and then there's like, Opportunity to kind of make it your, make it what is calling to you and it and, and that, and it obviously, it requires you to be in a place that honors that, but, but it sounds so cool.

So can you just, like, for people who are like, hold on, back up. What's hr, whenever I got called there, I was getting written up. Um, what, what is, what is like, aside from like the Monsters Inc. Lady, what are like a typical HR and like what is it that you've made HR be so that you. You get excited about it because you're like excited about it.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I'm excited about what I do and I think that's the thing is like typical HR is, oh, you're just here to protect the company. You're just here. My most like engaged LinkedIn post was one our, I was like, you go, here's the common [00:10:00] misconceptions. We only care about the company. We only are here to protect them.

We are here for the company, but we also, I know every good people in HR person that I interact with. That's because we know it's people's paychecks. It's dance lessons for kids. It's the European vacation you want to take for your 25th, your 30th, whatever milestone in your life. If there's not the company that's a lot of people's livelihood.

And so it's easy to like kind of villainize it and say, oh, well you just wanna protect the company. I. Maybe, but why? But what is my intent behind it? If it's like, oh, I just don't want us to get sued, that's probably not great. Um, I, I don't want to think that most of us come from that place. I think we do think about the people.

Um, and then it was, oh, well you're just, you're a corporate and you wanna follow rules. I'm also an employee. I still get a paycheck. I use the medical benefits I take sick time. And that really kind of gets moved away from. The human element of what we do. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot [00:11:00] of hard news that comes with what we do.

(Lesely: Yeah) If you're doing layoffs, if you're terminating someone, if there's an injury, if someone's not performing, yeah. We're involved, and that's a conversation. Um, my childhood best friend wanted to work together, and I, we had this really open conversation where I was like, you have to understand if it doesn't work, I have to be in that meeting.

I don't have to agree personally. I can know your side. I can know their side. It's, that's my function. That is my function is being there to like, here's how we transition, here's what that conversation is. And I'm not always comfortable. There are people, I'm like, I, you can't, I won't refer you because I don't wanna ruin that.

I would never work with my husband. Like, you guys are so amazing. I'm like, she's a rockstar. Cuz I'm like, we have to have our separate things. Husband is like the friendliest, nicest guy. Everyone loves him and everyone's always like, oh, it'll be so cool if you guys work together. I'm like, but how do you separate that?

(Lesely: Yeah) And some people can, I know there are [00:12:00] people in HR, they work at the same company. Like we're in different departments. It doesn't matter. I, I have, I've, I have such a, like a not good poker face. If we were doing a layoff or he was getting terminated, there's no way. I'm like, Hey, what's for dinner? Also dinner.

Oh, you, there's no way that would be like possible's your like, how's your resume? Like, no reason. I'm just like, just like curious. Like this is normal conversation. Right? Like, we never talk about this, but I'm just like, maybe just shoot that to me on like my personal email tonight and we'll just take a little gander.

Like I never wanna be in that position. Yeah. But I also think that makes good HR people, 

Lesley Logan: You know, here's what like I am what I love that you're saying, cuz I know that like, I do think, and I have thought, oh, HR is this weird thing that companies hire to be there for the employees, that really it's protect the company.

But the way you've explained it is like it humanizes it a little bit and to me it's almost like a Venn diagram. HR is kind of like the overlap of where like the company needs to be protected, but so do the employees and like that's where you live and wow. Do you get to be like [00:13:00] one foot on an island and one foot on a canoe at all times and like, I hope you have good inner thigh strengths.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Well, I, I, (Lesley: together) listening to you, so now I feel like I have to go a Pilate slice. I have to go try this. So maybe that'll be my, my new set. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, yeah. Side plus on the reformer is up for you. But, I think, like, I think it's what your highlight is also just like extremely, it's like being a human being in your place of work is so important.

And if you are not able to be a human being where you're working, then. It's a really good sign that maybe you should go talk to your HR department and see like if you're in the right place. So like, lemme just ask if I had an HR, I mean obviously not every HR is you, but if I was at your company and I was struggling, like are you like able to see that I'm in the right position?

Are you able to see like if I should be doing a different kind of transfer, are you also able to say like, Hey, this isn't the right place for you. Like what? (Ryan-Mae: So we try) What do, what do people do with, with you if as an employee, other than say, Hey, I would like you to think about this over here. [00:14:00] And that's the thing.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: So we try, we are multifaceted. We have an anonymous tool where people can say like, Hey, I'm just not feeling this. It, like, the first question is like, how was your month? How are you feeling over the month? And you, I think it's like n very unhappy, happy neutral. So we utilize those tools. We do quarterly surveys.

Our leadership, and this is something I I'm beyond grateful for, this is a village effort. I don't take all the credit for this. It is not just me. There's amazing humans that I think the universe just kind of put us all in the same spot and was like, let's go, let's do this. Our COO, our CEO, everyone's like, Hey, if you're here and you're unhappy, let's talk about it.

Is there another rule for you? Maybe? Is there not? Maybe, if you just say like, Hey, I actually think you're all terrible and I don't wanna be here anymore. We'd rather you tell us, we can figure it out. Instead of you just like randomly quitting in the middle of something. Cuz that's hard for you.

It's hard for us. I also just don't know if people feel safe to utilize that. We really try and we [00:15:00] mm-hmm. All of our leadership is open about like, here's where I'm at today. I always sometimes joke our, I'm a cat mom. It's like a weird thing. Our cat like fell one day and I thought his leg was broken.

And I was like, I have to be offline. Like, we're going to the vet and I'm just like crying and all this. And nobody was like, What is this? What's going on? Everybody's like, okay, do you need anything? Are you good? Like mm-hmm. We really try and make that. I don't know if it's util obviously, like, I'm like, I want everyone to feel safe.

We do try and say like, if you don't wanna come to me, here's an alternative. If you don't wanna go to your boss, here's like, everyone's kind of allowed to go where they need to go. Yeah. But I don't think people are still super comfortable with that. And I think it comes from this is a new wave. This is a new wave of people.

People you have. The older generation, and I don't, I don't wanna like classify him for like boomers or whatever because it's, there are people that are argued to that act this way because it's how they were trained. And I think it's a matter of, we're just coming into this new thing. Five years ago, mental health was kind of being talked about.[00:16:00] 

Now you have CEOs going, oh my gosh, I was struggling with my mental health. So I'm doing these like psychedelics under doctor care and I'm like, What, 25 year old me was like, oh, we wouldn't, we don't talk about that. Like that's not, and now it's, so it's, we are still learning too. Yeah. And I think the struggle is some of us are like, yes, let's talk about it.

Let's change things. Let's build a different version of a company. And other people are still like, oh, they're gonna sue us if we talk about mental health. They're gonna, they're gonna abuse leaves. And so I think you have to. 

Lesley Logan: Well, it sounds like it's coming from an, It sounds like where you're at, there's a, an inherent trust.

Like we believe in what we're doing and we want you to be part of it and enjoy yourself while you're here. And like, I think that like it does come from people at the top being human or at least having someone who can remind them that they're human. And I think, you know, it is true. Like I just heard the mayor of San Francisco on an interview and she was talking about like, [00:17:00] this is what she'd like to have for Ben, the guy who actually used to give everyone flowers and now he's has dementia and he lost his house.

Like people, the, the people that I hear talking about mental health, I'm like, whoa, hold on. So I think it's so important, but I also think like, it sounds like it's also two parts. So if you're listening to this and you work for a company and you're like, oh, my company doesn't like that. It makes me wonder, like sometimes I think that, like, are we also the employee, are we also saying, Hey, here's what I need.

Like are we actually saying what we need to the right people in the company, or are we just assuming that they won't give it to us and, and just. Putting up a block 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I think that's very much, there's just this mental like, oh, I don't know. Melissa, you mentioned Melissa Doman.

Yeah. I send her book to everyone. I, I'm obsessed. We have like the coolest uni universal cosmic crossing of paths and really that's the fine. The thing I find myself saying the most is I can't solve problems I don't know about. (Lesley: Yep) So, If [00:18:00] you're not comfortable coming to me, is it the anonymous tool?

Is it you going to someone else? What does that look like? Because I can't, if I don't know what's happening, I can't help it. And then the second part is always be very, very upfront. I will tell someone, like I said, we had an employee ask some really great questions last week, and I was like, Hey, it's on my radar.

I'm not promising to change this in a day. A year, but I now know about it. I will keep updating you. And sh she was very grateful. She's like, we just talked about it. That was very like, yeah, helpful. And I think the biggest thing I would encourage anyone, and it's not even just hr, it's if you have a question ask, like is it uncomfortable sometimes?

Yes. We did a four day work week, which is actually, I think how Mel kind of like pushed us together. I'm all about employee perks, the benefits, and I was like, you guys are out of your mind. This is not gonna work. We're 15 months in and it's working. Wow. And you're doing four days a week? [00:19:00] Yeah, we do. We have Fridays off for people to just like have a life and I think, but it was more than just one piece and it's something, it becomes a bigger thing.

It's the seed of the garden. To being more than just your job. Just a parent, just a, a neighbor, just a whatever it is you identify as. And for me, I had a really rough 2021. I had some health issues. Our wedding kept getting post cuz of Covid. Life was kind of all over the place. And I joined Black Thorn. It was kind of funky.

It was weird. And I was like finding myself ready to like, we have to do this for the employees and our leadership being like, yeah, we trust you. You got this. And I was like, whoa, whoa, I don't have to like fight you. Oh, okay. That's weird. And, and I explain even now, like I'm almost a year and a half in and I keep talking to people and I'm like, I still sometimes look at 'em like, do I get to do this?

This is really how things are going. And I think it seeds into other things I. I gained a bunch [00:20:00] of weight in 2021. I had some really bad physical challenges. Our CEO is one of the most incredible human beings I've ever met in my life. He's super fit, and so I always felt self-conscious about it, like I felt very self-conscious about it.

And we did a miles challenge in the fall of 2022. I'm also very competitive, so I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna win and it's gonna be great. And. I remember him and I were, were messaging and I was like, yeah, I did five miles. And then like, I saw your pace and it took me like an hour and a half and you did it like 40 minutes.

He's like, but five miles is five miles. Why do you care? You did it. Yeah. And I was like, whoa. And so it's, and it develops into more things. Like I got up Monday morning, I'm in Las Vegas, I'm in this great hotel room, it's a party town. Got up and walked on the treadmill and I just like sent him a message and I was like, Hey, I want you to know like you affect more than just work me.

(Lesely: Yeah) I know now that 30 minutes in the morning, if it's treadmill, if it's going outside and listening to a podcast, if it's going outside and having a phone call before I kind of start my day, that [00:21:00] time and that piece that I've created is really meaningful to me and I need it. Yeah, and it's something that is just really incredible and I think that when we have that openness, And we all talk about our struggles cuz he's very much like, I don't want to people just talk to me cause I'm CEO or be afraid to talk to me cause I'm CEO.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I think like, okay first of all, if you're like wondering who Mel is, you guys will link her book in the show notes. We'll also link to her episode you guys, I picked her up for the show. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: If you don't like your HR person, I will anonymously send her book to them. Cause I have been known to do like some also a little petty.

Lesley Logan: Oh yeah. Let us know. Or you could, or if you're listening, just un honestly. Yes. I a guitar person. Yeah. But, it is all about talking about mental health at work and why we have to, and also it came, it's a great episode on like, like wellness shaming, which can happen at work one, everything. But, so I so just wanna put a pin on that.

You feel like, who is Mel? That's what we're talking about now. I wanna also say like, you know, the stories we tell ourselves are like, so huge. Like, like, so it's like if we're telling ourselves that I can't talk to [00:22:00] hr, And HR is over there going, gosh, I really wish people talked to me. And also minding me saying, Hey, come talk to us.

But you might be hearing cuz you've just told yourself a story. So it's like really? You know, it's important for you wherever you are to listen to this and like, understand what you want and like go say it and then understand that they might be able to do it tomorrow, but like at least say it so you know it's been said and you can then find out who they are and how they'll operate and if it's gonna work for you because maybe you don't need to leave or as you mentioned earlier, maybe you do.

Man, oh, we had an episode on stress with Dr. Bender and she talked about how whenever we're feeling stressed out as human beings, we like to reason, we like to make up a reason and. Then that reason becomes, oh, well I got stressed out if my boss left the room. So actually it's my boss that stresses me out.

Now, it might not have been your boss at all. It might have just been like something else that happened in your brain triggered something, and like then you're stressed out. So then you're leaving your job because your boss, you think your boss stresses you out. But really, it might have just been [00:23:00] like the food you ate that caused stress in your body.

Like there's a lot of things. And so it's like we have to really be mindful of like how we're feeling and then. Being okay with being a human being, feeling those feelings and then talking to somebody about it so that we can actually go, oh, you don't have to feel shame about it taking however long it took you to five miles, because actually you did fucking five miles and that's pretty awesome.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Exactly. And I think sometimes like we our own, my therapist constantly reminds me, he's like, well, the relationship you have with yourself is. The most permanent, it's 24 7. Like if you wanna walk away from your pet or your child or your husband, you can probably, hopefully take two or three minutes at the minimum, if not more.

Lesley Logan: And I think it applies to more than work. I think speaking your truth, like I don't think it's the permission to go out and be like, I hate your shoes and I think you're tacky. I do think you have to speak your truth, like, Hey, I'm not comfortable with this. And I think that's something, I was actually telling someone about your podcast yesterday and I was like, she did this episode about the 40 for 40.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: [00:24:00] I just turned 39, and I had someone be like, oh my gosh, you're gonna be 40. Like, how does that feel? I was like, I'm so stoked. I'm so, so stoked because my thirties, like, I look at how it started and how it's closing out and I'm like, it can only go up from here. Yeah. Like it's only gonna go up from here.

And really, It's because I really learned myself, like my good, my bad. And being able to be like, I'm just being an asshole right now. Like, this is just me. Like I'm just this, I'm sorry. Like I, and sometimes you don't know in the moment, but I think there's a lot of power professionally and personally be like, hey, wasn't my best self.

No excuses, just wasn't my best self made a mistake. Here's where we're going now. Yeah, and I think that that, but I think it applies to more than just hrs or C E o. I mean, you do Pilates and you're a podcaster and you do all this other stuff, and there's probably a voice in time that's like, well, I'm on this, should I do this too?

And I think there's something really powerful [00:25:00] to be like, why? Why can't I do this? Yeah. I, five years ago would not have spoken out about, yeah, I think you should be able to go to your boss and be like, Hey, va, that wasn't okay. And this is how I feel. Yeah. Now I might sometimes do it a little aggressively and have to be like, Hey, so I should, I should have toned that down.

But I think we, we build up, like you said, we build up these stories good, bad, in between, and it's, it's really a disservice to our own self to be like, but can I change the story? What? Like, how can I change the story? Some things can't change. There's loss, there's events that happen, but also you can look at that and say, okay, but what can I do now?

And that's really what I'm just trying to put out there is what can you do now and how can you change and how do you be more than just what people say you are. (Lesely: Yeah) Not a pun on the name, but they kind of was. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I love this so much. You know what I, first of all, what I'm loving and I hope those who are not working in a corporation are like actually like seeing this cuz like as an owner of a company like [00:26:00] I.

First of all, I'm con I'm, I'm aware that like, especially as a woman in her forties who may or may not be perimenopausal, like I'll be in a meeting and I'm just like, this meeting, I'm, I don't wanna be in this meeting. (Ryan-Mae: I don't wanna do this anymore.) This meeting sucks. Whenever we have this meeting, it sucks.

And my husband, whose CEO is like, yeah, I think financial meetings just suck. And I'm like, no. I think at some point they should not suck. I would like, I want to have a fun one. I wanna have like a fun finance call. Yes. But like, I think, um, Being a human being is really hard, and I think sometimes whether or not you are the person listening who's running a business and it's solo and you've got a VA or you are an employee somewhere, like it is hard to be a human being because we all think we need to be better than whatever we decided.

Or we have been told we need to be better and may or may not been given the tools to do that. And there's just all this pressure and the more we can be honest with how we're feeling and like [00:27:00] acknowledge like, oh, I was actually really an asshole in that meeting. Like I was like, you guys, I am just, I'm not in a good space today.

So I think I'm just gonna take myself out of this meeting. Thank you so much. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go now cuz I gotta go cry in my room, but it's gonna be, it's not your fault. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Yeah. And I think that there's, that's powerful though. That's extremely powerful, especially because it pulls into other things. Oh, well she's just being hormonal so she can't run a company or he's not allowed to have emotion cuz he's a man, or dads shouldn't be on parental leave and things.

And it ties into so many factors and we joke. I, I've been working a lot. My husband's fortunately been able to pick up some of the house stuff and somebody's like, wait, he does the laundry? I'm like, well, he wears the clothes. So yes, he does. And sometimes we don't do laundry for two weeks and we just wear, like, I'll be wearing a concert t-shirt because them out of like options.

Yes. But I think that like it plays [00:28:00] into so much more than just corporate. It plays into personal and something I really try, I don't believe in resolutions cause I always break 'em. Yeah. But I always focus on like one thing that I really wanna improve. And one year it was like I just stopped drinking soda or pop, depending on where you're from because I was like, I'm just, this is like, this isn't healthy and like it's not good and it like, I just don't wanna do it anymore.

And I'm just like, okay. So that's my, that's my thing for, I think it was 2019. And in 2020 I found myself having some really pivotal relationships. I probably bit off more than I can chew, not knowing what was coming early down 2020. Yes. But I really decided, I, I default to anger. My default emotion is anger.

I get frustrated. I want to cuss, I wanna yell, I wanna throw things. I wanna be like up in the mix of like, oh, they suck and they're this and they're that. And, and I really was like, I need to get to a place where like I, maybe we don't see eye to eye. Maybe we've had a falling out. You can. You can be over there.

I'll be at my table. It doesn't mean I wish you get hit by [00:29:00] lightning or anything. Mm-hmm. You just don't have a speed, a seat in my table anymore and that's okay. I'd rather have a table that's genuine and supportive, but it also means, it doesn't mean I have to be like, oh my God, she's the worst. Like, can you even believe?

Lesley Logan: Right. You can just let it go. Yeah. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: So it's just, so every year I work on something like that, and this year I'm really trying like authenticity, like I'm not saying that right. But yeah, being super authentic. Like I know I'm too much for some people.

I'm loud. I have a terrible body mouth. I hopefully, I love that you're in hr. Like I love everything about you being in hr. All right. I'm like the anti, I have a sticker in my, I was like, I'm not regular hr, I'm cool hr. But literally I like, I'm trying to be my, and I. I have to like put myself in check and be like, there are people you really admire.

They're a little soft spoken. They don't, they don't love. And I constantly joke, I'm like, and then I like Kool-Aid man out through the door. I'm like, Hey everybody, what's up? Do this. And having to learn [00:30:00] like maybe they don't dislike me, but maybe I'm not their flavor. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, like it's, there's all these different Kool-Aid flavors. You might not be the right, yeah,

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: It might not be the right one. And I try, and I'm trying really hard to incorporate that into everything. Like, if you're a business, do I wanna spend my dollars with you? Do I believe in your principles? Do I believe in your vendors? And even it's brutal out there. We all know what's going on with the economy.

We all follow the news. I feel so bad for salespeople. They're just, they're trying so hard and you don't wanna pull them. Sometimes y'all, I, I gotta call him out. Like we had a gentleman, he emailed me on Thanksgiving via LinkedIn and was like, I love everything black do's doing in the culture and the, the Boric life balance and the best.

I'm like, okay, you're not in the us maybe, or I don't know, but it's Thanksgiving. So like, I'll get to you Monday. And then on Sunday he was like, did you read my email? Or what are your thoughts? Like really just gotta like connect in synergy and jive. And I was like, sir, if you actually were authentic and read anything I've ever written, [00:31:00] I have been out for four days and I sh I'm not going to respond on your pitch.

Even if I need your product at this point I'm out. And I genuinely hope like you tone down the hustle, you find a company that works for you and doesn't want you just to grind 24/7. Cuz it was really sad and he like called me out. He was like, I emailed a prospect and he like made this big LinkedIn post and everyone kind of agreed with me. I was like, You respect people's boundaries? 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I mean like there's awareness of yourself, an awareness of like not everyone's going to like you, and then awareness that not everyone's going to like you. So when they don't like you, it's not personal. And I think that, that's a really incredible thing I wanna highlight, like I love how each year you pick something cuz it's like a be it till you see it.

Okay, this year I'm gonna be it until I see this song, dogs gonna have pop. Okay, this year I'm gonna be it till I see it as someone who like, lets go of relationships that no longer serve me and it doesn't have to be a big deal. And now you're like, okay, I'm gonna be it till I see it in my authentic way.

Like I'm gonna like, this is how [00:32:00] I feel this, I work for a company that also believes this way. And so we want. We're gonna hire people, we're gonna, we're gonna buy from people who believe this way, and I think everybody, no matter where you are in your work life, we can all be until we see it in the brands we interact with and the companies we buy from and the things the, the, the, the pages on social we engage with because all of that is information that we take in and then we go off to work or whether it's for someone else or ourselves.

And then we tell ourselves a story based on like these 17 things that like connected all at the same minute as you're walking into work. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: And then you pick the one and you're like, that blue shirt that John has just pisses me off every time I see him. And you're like, (Lesley: Yeah), is it it really that, or like, does he happen to just like, you got cut off in traffic this morning and he was the first person you saw, like (Lesley: Yeah)

it's just really, and it, again, it plays into such bigger things. I, the world is so opinionated right now, and we all have our side and we all have our right and we're all, and I, I get it. I have firm beliefs. I have things [00:33:00] that I am not gonna waiver on and things I'm not gonna compromise on. Sometimes I don't need to yell about it, and that's something I'm learning.

(Lesley: Mm-hmm.) Other people do need to yell about it, but I've also noticed by kind of stepping back, the conversations I'm having are opening doors that I never would've thought because I can hear more. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I can hear more about someone who, I'm a straight white woman, there's a lot of things I need to learn, and it's really just like opened up the doors for those conversations and I'm like, wow, I'm actually like harder into this and I'm learning things.

And now you get on the other side, everyone's got an opinion. I know when I travel, people are like, where are you from? I live in California. Oh hmm. Are you gonna come and jack up our real estate prices? I'm like, probably not. I don't know. Like this is cool, but no, maybe I just look at realtor cuz that's what I do not cuz I'm like trying to like single-handedly destroy your economy.

Lesley Logan: It is the, it's the most hilarious thing. Okay. This is a total side note. Y'all we're gonna go on a tangent. I was in, I [00:34:00] was in a different state in an Uber and I said I was from Las Vegas and, and the person started talking about something that I like, didn't really actually agree with, and I didn't want to like, I didn't want to get in an argument with them.

I'm an Uber, (Ryan-Mae: like dropped off on the side of the road) just trying to get, I'm just trying to like get to where I'm going. I really should. Like, I really, it should just say like, I don't wanna talk to you. And it's not cuz I'm an asshole, just cuz I got the other things. I'm in the Uber for a reason anyways, so I just said, you know, before that I was living in Los Angeles and the whole conversation just stopped and I was like, okay, well that's one way to end a conversation you don't wanna have.

But it's also hilarious because like, just because you're living from someplace, moving somewhere doesn't mean you're trying to jack up the real estate. Everyone, people are allowed to move. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I noticed this a lot. I have a, one of my dear friends is a veterinarian.

Will not tell people because like it'll be the most random. Be like, what do you do? You're out like a social thing. Oh, I'm a veterinarian. I just happen to have this picture of my pet's butt. Does that look normal? And you're like, well, (Lesley: Yeah) and then it, [00:35:00] I'm sure people do it with you. They're like, oh, you have Pilates.

I had this instructor and they were terrible. Or, oh, answer my HR question. I do this with, actually, we mentioned Mel previously, and I know we're trying to make this whole episode of her, I'll text her and be like, I need your professional opinion in the mental health space. Are you able, or like, I just need you to be my friend.

Like, and (Lesley: Yeah), we actually brought this into our marriage. Like obviously in hr I have some, some skills and some knowledge. So my husband will have a work challenge and I'm like, okay, do you need like wife me or do you need HR me? Because I need to know what lane to be in. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And this all keeps coming back to like, I, I, it just comes back to like making, like honoring the pace that you're in and not everything has to be an argument and not everything has being antagonist again, not everyone is against you.

People that you might think are on the opposite side of the aisle of any like opposite of be of your boss, opposite of the aisle, however you vote. There's actually always a Venn Diagram of like, we all just want, we want the world to be here tomorrow. Like, that'd be really awesome. [00:36:00] And if you are in a workplace as an employee, of course your boss wants things to work out.

Because then they can pay you. (Ryan-Mae: Yeah) So of course they wanna hear like, they want you to work out here ideally, cuz it costs a fuck ton more to hire someone else. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Oh my God. So does the refill, the backfill is, is a real thing, but it's also just like, and I think that's where my, my passion comes from is like there's, we get labeled and it's, oh, you're, you're a woman, you're in California, you're in Vegas, you're this, you're that.

And I don't. We're more than that. We're all more than that. Mm-hmm. Every, I don't care what, what you believe in or any of that, you're not just that one thing. Yeah. Maybe you support that one thing that I'm like, ugh, not so much for me. But what are the other things that maybe we do agree on? Yeah. Even if it's something small or even if it's just like, again, finding the self that you need to serve in that moment is something that we have to, and the intent, the intent is a huge thing.

And I love that you mentioned that because we find in, especially in the people space, [00:37:00] did you have a toxic workplace? Have you come from a boss that was just probably really awful to you, maybe even unintentionally, and they didn't realize it, okay, we're gonna support you. We're gonna try and set you up for success.

It's also, you have to come to the table ready to like not assume every I still to this day, if I'm randomly dropping a meeting on someone's calendar, we'll send them a message or something and saying like, hey, I'm grabbing time. This is why. Because, yeah. If anybody's getting like a random meeting from their HR leader, they're like, well that was, that was a good run.

So I try and be intentional with my communication cause I don't wanna cause anxiety. (Lesley: yeah, yeah) And it was, my CEO was a really great example when I first started. He like, I think I was like doing something. He's like, Hey, do you have two minutes? I'm gonna call you. And I was like, oh, I'm in so much trouble.

I don't know what I did. And he's like, why do you, why did you assume that?

Lesley Logan: Because we all do. Because everyone, all do, all do. So everyone just tell people why I need 15 minutes of their time. And do not say to pick your brain, just like actually say, I need, I have, I would like to talk about X thing. And people (Ryan-Mae: exactly) will actually say yes to meanings.

And that's like, and [00:38:00] I'll be like, hey. Or if it's something a little sensitive, like, Hey, you've said you've got some struggle. You told me that thing I'm mentioning in the calendar, it's gonna be called this or it's gonna be this. And most of the time I'm gonna give away some of the secrets. HR people don't come for me.

If you're getting terminated. HR is not usually the one sending the meeting. We just kind of like come in from the back and are like, Hey, we're here too. So that's actually, there's a lot if that helps anyone's fears. It is very rare. It does happen. I, I can't speak, I do not speak for every organization.

But most of the time, and I, I also encourage people cuz we're busy. We're, I, I mean, I send things out. If you're not sure, ask if you would rather take two minutes and be like, Hey, we're you asked me to connect, or, hey, you seem short in that email most of the time it's easily explained away. (Lesley: Yeah) And I think that that's something we don't feel powered to do just in life in general.

(Lesley: Yeah) Like it's very, it's very hard to be like, you just seem really snippy via text and they're like, what? No, I, I, I was at the grocery store, I was in the car, I was [00:39:00] using Siri and. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, it's like, it, it's like if you either, either we all need to stop pretending that it's about us all the time, or we actually have to bring it to their attention. That, that felt a certain way is everything okay? 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: And I, I think in the workplace, especially, like, I try and say, I say this to myself, I, I give this advice to employees and to fellow management and stuff in a company. None of us are really the star of the show. Like, even if you go like Steve Jobs, like everybody knows him from Apple.

Yeah. He was running the company and he was doing, like, (Lesley: he didn't make the phone). He's not building the phones. And like, that's the thing is I think like it's, it's easy and again, I, this is advice I give myself when I'm like, everybody hates me and they're super mad at me. I have to be like, you're not actually like the hero slash star.

You're, you're a supporting player in this movie that we're making together. And it's, it's sometimes easy to be like, okay. It's okay. Yeah, and I, I think that we [00:40:00] all inherently are our own hero and we are all our like own superstars, so it's easy to be like, oh my gosh, I bet you that Leslie and Mel were talking about me before I came on the podcast, and Mel like warned her and this and that.

Instead of being like, no, Mel probably was like, Hey, you should talk to Ryan May. Like she's got some cool views. That's the of it. (Lesley: Yeah) It's easy to build it up, like you said, it all goes back to we create this narrative. And sometimes changing the narrative to ourselves, even what we say to ourselves mm-hmm.

Is, is hard. And there was a, there's a book someone gifted me, it's actually about parenting and I was kinda like, this is weird, just growing up again. And it talks about, as a parent, how do you change what you've come from? And it really just kind of, it's very heavy, like into the generational trauma and stuff.

But it was very much like, okay, I had kind of a weird childhood. There was some stuff. It's a lot. Big proponent of therapy if you're not your best self. But it gave me some insight on like, I can actually just choose to not be upset about that anymore. (Lesley: Yeah) Like I [00:41:00] can choose to not carry that on like 

Lesley Logan: We should I'll read that book, whether you're having kids or not, because take, it's like a great thing to even like, Take into the workplace and take into, or working for yourself, which you can tell yourself some whoppers, Brian, may you somehow have managed to make HR sound so fun. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: And, there's a lot of dark sides to it too. There are some, in most industries, there's some not great people. But honestly, if you, if you aren't sure, just ask. 

Lesley Logan: Yes. Okay. That, like right there, that's the title of the show. Okay. We're gonna take a brief break and then we're gonna find out where we can find you, learn from you, and also your beat action names.

All right, Ryan, may, where do you like to hang out? You said LinkedIn? Is that your jam? 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I mostly live on LinkedIn. I'm a little bit hard to find cuz I, I have, it's just Ryan Dash May with an E and then the letter M and the Lord's P H R which is a certification for professional and human resources. I do live on Instagram.

It's mostly cat photos, so if you're looking for like hard [00:42:00] hitting. Professional content? 

Lesley Logan: No, we got some cat lovers. They'll just come there for the cat. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: It's literally like, usually like cats. And I'm, I'm slowly becoming like a very much, I wanna get my somnia at some point. That's like my next career move.

So there's usually like heym a winery here, Hey, I'm doing this. So lot of memes, I use humor 

Lesley Logan: Oh my God, I wanna go back to being a social media person who just put up pictures of my dogs and tequila and some memes like, oh my God, what if that could. So well and it, I missed 2005.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Right. I'm like sometimes it was so much simpler. Yeah. But yeah, I live on LinkedIn and I actually, I love LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is becoming like more of like my favorite social media, which is really weird.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Brad is gonna want to tell like pick your brain on that in a big way. Cuz he's like really convinced that way we should like do some stuff on LinkedIn and I'm like, I, I'm just so, I got so tired of being sold, like, I'm not gonna even say the company's name cuz I don't want 'em to come for me. But the, you know, I discuss all of them. There's being sold every single, 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: There's no one, there's, there's [00:43:00] the 10 ones that are like, you said you liked yoga here we offer these 40 packages. And you're like, that's. Okay. I think I would love to talk Brad about that cuz I am a very big proponent of LinkedIn and I think the community is being built and there's so much stuff you can see that you're like, oh, I never thought of that.

My new personal passion project in the HR space is second chance hiring. You made a mistake when you were younger. You have a crime. They're so, I, I could go for hours.

Lesley Logan: I'm obsessed like you guys. I need another podcast if we're gonna talk about this because, I'm obsessed with Second Chance Hiring and I have a family member who literally cannot get a job he is overly qualified for because of something he did at 18 years old.

And I'm like, okay, then we have to find. A criminal defense attorney and try to get this expunged from your record. It's been 20 fucking years. You haven't done shit since. Like, and that thing is crazy. And you look at, that was the thing I always joke of. He was like, oh, did you after this? I was like, maybe I'll go to law school.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: And you look at public defenders and they're [00:44:00] lacking. And so then you get a lawyer that usually bills $500 an hour and they're like, oh, you're pro bono for this guy. He's not giving you his a game. And so I'm actually doing some volunteer stuff with a company called Good Call, New York. 

They have an algorithm right now that if you are arrested in New York, they're gonna start going across country. They'll get you connected with Law Enfor, law enforcement representation, whether it's an attorney, illegal aid, something just to get you on the right track, no charge, low cost, and there's some orgs just doing some great work, honest jobs outta Denver.

They literally are a talent platform management for finding like, hey, you have a criminal record, you know that you acknowledge it. Let's get you placed. (Lesley: Love this..) it's just such a passion project. 

Lesley Logan: Guys. We'll forget these links and I'll put 'em in the show notes. Yeah, I'll send them please, because, I'm like, I think.

Some, there's a lot of shit going on in the world and you gotta pick something that you're passionate about and like, it can't, we all, like, if we all just donate to the world, like it's not gonna work. Like we have, like there's all these little problems at home that you can actually make a massive impact on. I love what you're talking about. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Well, and it's not even like dollars at point. Like I literally reached out [00:45:00] to Good Call and I was like, hey, I know you guys are small. Here's what I can offer. I would love to give you 10 million to fund your project. I don't have it. I'm sorry. 

So we're doing those kind of things and I think it really just comes from LinkedIn now as opposed to LinkedIn. Even in like 20 19, 2020. I was connected with them cuz someone liked a post that was talking about it. And they're CEO Jelani, who's an amazing human, who I should totally connect you with.

Was just like, he was like, Hey, here's my email if you have any input. And I, I just like emailed him. It was very random and cold connection like, hey, I'm some lady from California, you know, nothing about, but I'd really like to help. Oh, please do. Cuz I would love to highlight them cuz like, I would know how you even start something like that and like, It's so, there's so many good orgs.

I'll send you all the links. Yeah. And I wanna highlight them, because I want more people to know and how like somehow support them. Okay. Real quick, cuz we can obviously talk forever. You're amazing. (Ryan-Mae: ditto) Yeah. Be It action items, bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it until they see it. What is your tip for them today? [00:46:00] 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Do not label yourself as one thing. You are a multifaceted human being. You are a, your career, you're a parent, you're a spouse, you're this. Serve the version of you in that moment that serves you best? Yeah, sometimes I am not. Ryan-Maeerson, I'm Ryan-Maeand I just have to be in that role.

And sometimes I'm Ryan Mae who's having a really hard mental day that needs to be the cat lady on the couch with her Netflix and some mac and cheese. And I think the more you deny the layers of yourself, you become less authentic in each version. Mm-hmm. And you get consumed. I could let my job consume me if I wanted, cuz I, I, I like it.

There's a lot of work to be done. I fortunately have now colleagues and people outside of my life that are like, Hey girl, take a break. How you feeling? What are you doing? Did you eat? Are you, are you watering? Did you go on a walk? Like, what are you doing? And I think you have to really acknowledge and honor even the bad parts.

Like you were saying, you hate finance meetings. I think you can be like, okay, I'm LL in the [00:47:00] finance meeting. This is the worst version I'm gonna be today. Let's get it done. And that's okay. You're serving that version of yourself. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's okay. I, my husband (Lesley: team, I hope you just heard that.I get full permission just to be that person.) They're gonna message me on LinkedIn and be like, now you have to be our HR lady. I'm in HR, this, but yeah, so it's, I think you have to deserve the good, the bad, and you have to acknowledge all of it. And you have to learn what is that there are parts of ourselves we're not gonna love.

It's unfortunate. I, you can get any woowoo, love every moment of yourself,

Lesley Logan: No, I had a therapist. Best advice she ever give me. She's like, you don't have to like that version of you like, like there's like that, there's an eight year old LL who likes to like freak out about money whenever I have it.

And I can actually go, you know what? I heard you. Thank you. You can just go back to your seat. Appreciate it. 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: I think that's like, I think that's okay. Like I struggle. I had some parental stuff and I think it's very like disarming to people when I'm like, yeah, my parents weren't the greatest.

Sometimes it's not discounting the good that [00:48:00] they did. Right. It's okay. It's also, I say all the time when people are getting in new relationships and stuff. The partner I am to my husband is so much better than the RM that dated all everyone before. Yeah. Long term short term, because one, I saw the value in our relationship.

I liked myself a lot more and I was more comfortable with the good, the bad, and like being that very, like being in a marriage is very intimate for like even non-sexual reasons. Like you're just, it's 24 7. Your everything, your finances, your mental health, your physical health, everything is Oh yeah, intertwined.

And there's a part of me that honors, like, you know, that guy I dated before, Phil? I wasn't really good to him. I'm not saying he was great to me either. We probably weren't good for each other, but everything I took from that, I can sit here and say, here's how I'm gonna do it different and why. Mm-hmm. And I think that you have to acknowledge it.

I'm the same way about money. Like I, [00:49:00] my husband's a responsible one and like, he'll be like, just buy it. And I'm like, What if we're gonna like, lose our house? Then I internalize, like people will talk about, oh yeah, I'm, I'm gonna get fired for my job, whatever. And I'm like, we have to eat Ramen. Where's all our money?

What are we doing? And he's like, so we're good. Like that has nothing to do with us. And I like pull it on myself. And he's like, I don't know where this is coming from. And we talk about it and he is like, oh, my mom was a C p A, so she taught me about finances and did all this. My parents were like, good luck.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Oh yeah. No, my, my husband's parents were accountants, so, um, 

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: oh my gosh. I feel like we have like seven more episodes. 

Lesley Logan: We do. We do stuff. We do. I love this, I love that. I love just honoring the version of yourself and not just labeling yourself as just one thing. I think it gives so much freedom and I hope, and it actually allows you all to be it till you see it.

So Ryan Mae be who you need to be in that moment and accept that sometimes this is not the best version of yourself. Ah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Ryan Mae thank you for being here and sharing anytime, sharing all of your, all of your parts of you, and also making HR sound like I [00:50:00] somebody I wanna hire.

Ryan-Mae McAvoy: Um, well, if you ever, I, HR goals. Now, if you ever need some advice, I'm a quick email or LinkedIn a way (Lesley: you're, you're on the list).. Love that. Um, but thank you for having me. Like, honestly. Oh. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. This is so fun. This is such a fun conversation. You guys. What are your takeaways? What parts of the story like resonate with you?

What parts are you actually going? Oh dang, I'm gonna use that. Let us know. Uh, tag Ryan May, um, and her cats On Instagram, yes, or on LinkedIn. Um, I'm also on there. My team makes sure, uh, and also share this episode with a friend. And until next time, be it till you see it.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. [00:51:00] Have an awesome day.

Be It Till You See It is a production of the Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan: It is produced and edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell: Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production, music, and our branding by designer and artist, Cianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website, and finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. 

In this episode of FYF (Fuck Yeah Friday), Lesley kicks off the show by celebrating listeners wins. From productivity to transforming screen habits, these inspiring stories encourage listeners to recognize their own victories. Join the conversation and learn how to overcome obstacles and find joy in even the smallest wins.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Celebrating wins, big and small, and finding inspiration in everyday achievements
• Overcoming obstacles and finding creative solutions to challenges
• Reducing screen time and unraveling habits for personal growth
• The importance of making space for new habits and embracing positive changes

Episode References/Links:

• Do Epic Shit Podcast

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:06  

Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan 0:06  

Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started

Hey Be It babe, welcome to Fuck Yeah Friday. Oh my goodness, somebody wins. One of those wins is like this FYF even happening, but I'll explain that more when it's my turn. So what we do first is we celebrate your wins and then we'll celebrate one of mine and this is to inspire you to think about some wins in your life that you might not even be considering wins. And you have to because otherwise it just is a slog, isn't it? So we have one from Tammy Adrian George, she is an OPC teacher. She's also in our agency group and she said FYF to us all. I was supposed to appear for jury duty. No calling, I cleared the whole day. Then got miraculously released. So bonus day, so she got an insane amount of laundry done. Probably because I was listening to the Be It podcast, also listen to Do Epic Shit podcast guesting and it went so well. And I now have a few core topics that all of my episodes steer to the same focus that I want. In the midst of pitching someone, I realized they don't actually have any spots open until mid June. It was so freaking awesome to offer a waitlist spot if a cancellation happens. Wind down for the school year. It's just over two weeks away, which is like actually happened at this point, means every week has offends, meetings and forms that are mandatory. And so I'm fully booked. I worked extra over the last month so there's no missing the good stuff. My client with MS just returned for a month in Paris and London seeing family and their old stomping grounds. She was so free to fall in that she was going to cancel it. She had a blast. And although she did it with me for years, we spent the last six months training with cobblestone streets, stone stairs, museum floors, and learning how to fall and recover in mind. So she said, Have a wonderful weekend. Thank you, Tammy for sharing all of those wins. Oh my goodness, a way to have an extra bonus day and like realize that you are actually waitlisting people and then meeting clients where they are, so so awesome. I love it. Okay, we have another win. This is from Chris Fenton. She is an eLevate round two person. And she got her new Contrology handles and she put them on a reformer. When I took OPC class and did rowing one, I had a light bulb moment when the shoulders opened up and the palms turned down at the end of the move. Before I switched them out. The straps were keeping my palms facing up for the entire finish. So if you don't know, pull on, it's rowing. It's okay. I know how big this linen is. It's so so key. If you ever are doing Pilates, and you just feel your shoulders and your ears all the time, check your handles, check your handles, she put some actual wood handles on to her reformer instead of having straps. And it makes a big difference. And I'm happy to nerd out about that if you want. So just ask me for a Be It Pod question or on our YouTube channel as well. Okay, now, for my win. So it's two wins this week, one of them is I've been really wanting to reduce my screen time. I've been wanting to like have more time to sit down and read a book or just journal or whatever. And I have been listening to other podcasts. And they've been doing these like different challenges where they like literally used a flip phone for a week. And then they put their phone in some sort of lockbox every day. And there was another challenge where they had to, like, do a couple things to like answer some questions before they even open an app. And I was like, Okay, these are all really interesting and got me more intrigued about like, how much time I was like on my screen, because I'm on my screen for home screens for work. So I'm not going to go away from that. But like, how much additional time am I adding to my screen time. And I'm not nearly as bad as them. Oh, my goodness. Some of them are like opening their phone like 400 times a day. Like I'm not. I'm not doing that. Oh, however, I just felt like, well, where am I spending most of my time? And you know, it's not social media apps, because I don't really spend a ton of time on there. I dropped my stuff, I celebrate the people who are engaging with us and like kind of look at some friends and I move on for the day. So wasn't there. It was just one video game that I love. And I was like, you know, I probably don't need to play it as much as we are. And so I was trying to figure out how to like, get rid of it because I do like having it as a wind down thing. But I didn't want to or like when I'm like on the plane or whatever. So I didn't want to just delete the app that's also by the way, not how you break a habit, you do not just like create a void that's gonna 1,000% create suction. So I was like, What can I do? So I used my how to unravel a habit you no longer want to have. And I turned my phone display into a gray scale from the time I do my night walk with the dogs all the way till breakfast. So it means every time I open my phone, it's all black and white, you can't really see the apps, when you do open an app, you can't really tell what's going on, like what's a button what's not a button because like there's no colors to like, make this thing fun to use. And so I did it for one week, you guys. And now I don't even have to put my phone in grayscale. I don't even, like, I don't touch my game until breakfast. And I play it while I'm having some breakfast. And I'll play it like while I'm stretching on my mat at night. But like I've reduced my consumption of this game by like two thirds, which is insane. Now, to be honest, it's not created more time for reading. However, you have to make the space first so this is why it's so important, my overachievers, I couldn't make the goal to use the game less and read more at the same time. That'd be a huge change in the life. So I just unraveled the prompts that let me use the game and took away ways of making the game easy to play. And then the next step could be reading. So we'll work on that, I'll update you on another FYF. The second win is just that this FYF is even happening. To be honest, I like literally can't get to the internet for whatever reason to work in the podcast room. It works until I want to open up an app and then it doesn't work. And that's a quiz going on. I was just in the next room over and I have amazing internet. I tried hotspot I tried all these things. I honestly was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it later. And I like the team needs it. I have a win to share, like I've got these other things. And so truth be told, I was like, Okay, What are other ways we could do this? So if you're watching this on YouTube, and it looks a little different, it's because I had to like (...) camera. And I hope that this I actually have no idea if the team is able to use any of this but fingers crossed. So I just want to say you should celebrate wins where like you have to overcome major obstacles, because it's an even bigger deal than if it had been the easiest thing in the world. So celebrate that you like overcame an obstacle like the doors slamming shut and you're still able to find a way to do something, because I'm celebrating this one today. All right loves thank you for spending this Friday with us. Thank you for being just awesome rockstars and listeners to this. Now it's time for you to share your wins, you can share with us over on the Be It Pod on Instagram. You can share them in the comments on YouTube or you can send them to us on the weekly email that we send out. We would love to shout you out. Have an amazing day.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 7:38  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:38  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 7:38  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 7:38  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 7:39  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Lesley and Brad share their key takeaways from their conversation with Jay Twining, the creator of the Feel Good Fatherhood podcast. Discover how to transform mundane small talk into profound interactions, fostering lasting relationships and how men can better understand their emotions, enabling them to express them effectively and meaningfully.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• What craniosacral therapy is.
• Why a person can be alone but not lonely.
• How can one get into a deep conversation and build a relationship?
• Vulnerability and how to identify and express emotions effectively.
• The importance of having outlets to express emotions.
• Why communication is key to a successful relationship.

Episode References/Links:

• Cambodia Pilates Retreat
• OPC Workshops
• Contrology Pilates Conference
• Dr. Alyssa Desena, Naturopathic Doctor
• Follow Dr. Alyssa Desena on Tik Tok

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan: [00:00:00] Emotional self-control is something that is actually attractive in us and something that's expected of us as fathers and men in particular today. And I think you know that, that like the emotional self-control can be like a clamp around them, you know? Mm-hmm. And so there's moments where it can be okay to be vulnerable and other times where you do have to keep it together.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. [00:01:00] Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap, where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the devoted convo I had with Jay Twining in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to this interview, feel free to pause now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us.

You guys, this is coming out around the Father's Day weekend in the US and so I thought the devoted father episode should be around the same weekend, if Father's Day is a different day where you live, then there's a method to this madness and, and you should still enjoy it right now cause we're talking about it right now.

Today is well it's June 15th. If you're listening real time, and I love this, my team put some notes. It's sneak a kiss day. But if you want to, we could talk about World Elder Abuse Awareness Day instead. And it's like, well... 

Brad Crowell: I kept trying to find something that was like Father-like, and the only father-like thing was Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I was like, that's dark as f. 

Lesley Logan: So here's [00:02:00] the deal. If you're gonna sneak a kiss, make sure you have the c onsent of the person you're sneaking a kiss from, period. 

Brad Crowell: Fair, fair, fair. 

Lesley Logan: However, we should talk about world elder abuse because it is an international holiday and also I don't think we have to actually know how this works.

And the truth is, is that depend on where you live in this world, there might not be an actual enough places for your elderly families to be at. If you live in the States, I'm talking to you, there's just not enough places for our our family folks to be at, and it's really, really important that you understand what is happening when they're there and that you are an advocate for them. So please take some time to talk with the elders in your life about what they would like their life to be like and what they would like you to do, and make sure there's some communication around that. Brad's been doing a bunch of stuff about it, like our death shit, and it's important.

It's important to have living will. It's important to talk about this, and it's also important if you see a bruise on people like. Investigate. They have thin skin. 

Brad Crowell: But yeah, I mean, it's, it's the thing when you think elder [00:03:00] abuse awareness, it's sometimes it's family directly, you know? And that could be neglect, that could be actual abuse and maybe like they're, your in-laws living with you or your family member's older and living with you, but it could also be from a facility that they're in.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. There was a, there's a, there was a facility. Well, many facilities actually. I have friends who work in the industry and there was this one facility that was like drugging these certain elderly patients of a type of illness to basically like make 'em catatonic so they wouldn't have to deal with them.

Right. And that is abuse. They don't need to be on that medication. So, and it is so hard once they're in there. So please make sure that if your family, your parents are not yet in that stage, make sure you know what the insurances are gonna allow them to do. Make sure you have a conversation and make sure you have this preparedness happening because you don't, it's, that would be the worst thing to discover.

Brad Crowell: Well, I also find it's strange, not [00:04:00] that I'm an expert on this, but I just think it's weird how we as Americans don't really... 

Lesley Logan: ...take care of our elderly? We just put 'em in a, we put 'em in a home. 

Brad Crowell: Well, I was, yeah. Yeah. But I, but I was gonna say, we don't respect the elderly culturally. 

Lesley Logan: I know. In Cambodia it's so different.

Brad Crowell: It's so different in Cambodia. 

Lesley Logan: Everyone takes care of grandma hack, everybody.

Brad Crowell: In Cambodian culture, if you're old, you are like, revered, you know, and like your... Your community takes care of you. It's not just your family. 

Lesley Logan: And also, like, everyone's a little bit afraid of grandma. 

Brad Crowell: Maybe, I guess, but, but...

Lesley Logan: It's in a good way, you know?

Brad Crowell: Well, it's, there's a, there's like a lot of, it's a different perspective, you know, like here, it's like we hit, you know, mid, late seventies and then, you know, we're too busy for them or something and it's just weird, you know, it's a very different lifestyle. 

Lesley Logan: You know, also like I don't blame the people who've ignored their family members a certain age who have [00:05:00] opposite beliefs of them. So then that's hard. 

Brad Crowell: There's that too. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, because like, it's hard. It's, it was, I mean we talked about this in the podcast. It was so hard whenever I'd call my grandfather and he's like, just waiting to die. And it's like, well, I think I'm gonna stop calling you cuz that's hurting my mental health. So it just, look, I say this as it is so hard, this is not something I wanna talk about.

But it is important, at least be aware of the elders in your life and make sure that they have care or you know, what the plans are for care. And then be curious if there are bruises or anything going on, trust your gut on that and be aware of it. It's a world elder abuse day, and if that depresses the fuck out of you, like it does me, then sneak a kiss from someone who's okay with you kissing them.

All right, onto the next thing that's happening in this world. 

Brad Crowell: Webinars.

Lesley Logan: June 21st. We're doing a webinar if you wanna know how to convert first time clients. This is for you, y'all. 

Brad Crowell: This is a Profitable Pilates webinar. 

Lesley Logan: ​It's also the first thing I ever did in coaching teachers [00:06:00] around business.

It's like literally the reason why I started coaching people in business is because someone was like, how come you have so many so many clients? How come every person who comes in for a first session becomes a client who buys a big package? And I was like isn't that my job? And then I realized it's so hard for people.

So this is actually how I became a coach. So it's gonna be amazing is what I'm saying. It's 13 years of awesomeness that you're gonna get for like, if you get it early, 25 bucks if you get it late, 37 bucks. Hello. Amazing. Go to the link of the show notes for that. And then in July we're gonna be in the UK. We're gonna be in Leeds and we're gonna have a couple spots left on our mullet tour. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, there's only a few left. It's amazing. I'm very excited. So, if you're on the fence, Don't, don't wait because there's limited seats just because of the space in the studio.

Lesley Logan: So, thanks Clare Sparrow for hosting us and we can't wait to be there. Go to opc.me/uk for that. And then in August, we're doing our West Coast tour, so hello, California, Oregon, [00:07:00] Washington. And then, I don't know, something on the way home, I'm sure. But go to opc.me/tour to make sure you are, you hear about all the cities we stop at.

We're getting all the cities nailed down, locked in and loaded. And we're so freaking stoked. Bringing the dogs. 

Brad Crowell: We should have some more news actually in like a week. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Technically in real time we'll probably have the news happening. 

Brad Crowell: No, from this one, when this is out. 

Lesley Logan: Oh, a week from this. Okay. Cool. Goals. September will be in Poland. Sign up, contrologypilatesconference.com. So there's a wonderful host who is bringing in Contrology equipment to Poland. She's bringing in a couple of us teachers there. We're doing a lot of amazing workshops and yes, we're bringing the flashcards so. Get your Thasses there because this, this might be my only time in the next couple years hitting that up. So we'll see you there. And of course, in October there is still time to join us in Cambodia on our retreat. We have a few spots left. Our house is basically full, so we, if you are like, don't use it as an excuse to [00:08:00] not come grab the last spots. We know how many we can have and it's gonna be a lot of fun. You don't wanna miss this one. 

Brad Crowell: Oh, we have a great group already coming. And, and seriously... 

Lesley Logan: Amazing ladies. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. And we got a mom and daughter couple coming. 

Lesley Logan: And we might have a husband and wife, so that's so fun. 

Brad Crowell: We have besties coming and I'm pretty sure the husband's not gonna do the Pilates on that, so that's an option too for y'all. Who have a partner who isn't into Pilates. That's okay. Yeah. They can join us for all the food and the fun and the tours and, you know, the experience. It's a lovely vacation. Even if they're not there for the workshops. 

Lesley Logan: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you know what? I just can't wait. We just kept back from Korea and I already miss the humidity. Like I miss it. My lips are chapped all the time. Yeah. I wanna get back. I wanna get back to Asia. 

Brad Crowell: It's also getting drier here right now. It's like really? I noticed it. You know, really strong in the last week, like I know, but our cactus, soon as we got home I was like, oh yeah, it's dry. But then like over a week later, I'm like, whoa.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, but your cactus looks phenomenal. Oh my gosh. They've all doubled in size. 

Brad Crowell: [00:09:00] Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. The really insane growth and beautiful flowers this year. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. But that's, that's actually not what comes next. So, no, we first have an audience question. 

Brad Crowell: We do. This is a long one. So bear with me here. This one's from Cassie Bernard, and she says, listening to this episode completes a line in the O P C Go challenge for me, which was O P C. We did this awesome bingo style game. And she said, I'm curious about the term Jenny used "nutraceuticals". Is this a compilation list found on the Institute for Functional Medicine?

Since menopause hit me like a Mac truck in 2020, I've become my own expert like Jenny, researching so much information, books, resources, podcasts, talk to my doctor, and started hormone replacement therapy about seven months ago. It's amazing how so many of the things that you both mentioned, trouble sleeping, digestion, digestion, stress confined solutions in non-pharmaceutical treatments. I too had infertility issues [00:10:00] for years in traditional medicine techniques to try and conceive until I learned about, bear with me here, craniosacral therapy. Craniosacral therapy. Love this conversation about exploring beyond, do you have any podcast interviews about craniosacral therapies?

Lesley Logan: So actually we actually, after I saw this question, I was in Connecticut and I got a craniosacral session for myself, and I was just there and they were doing craniosacral and I'm like, hi. Hi, I have an audience member who has a question. Can I get a craniosacral massage? And also, would you mind answering this question?

So, in a moment, our voices are going to go away and our amazing team is going to edit in a audio answer from Alyssa, who is a craniosacral massage therapist off out of Connecticut. And we'll have all of her links in the show notes below. I'm so excited. 

Brad Crowell: Y eah. That's so cool. Before we go to that clip though just some definitions for anyone who was listening to that going, I don't know what the fuck any of those words mean.

[00:11:00] Nutraceuticals is actually food that has, cont it contains health giving additives and having medicinal benefits. So that's nutraceuticals is food. Craniosacral therapy is a gentle hands-on technique that uses a light touch to examine membranes and movement of the fluids in and around the central nervous system.

So around the head and the the neck. Is that right? That's what happened? 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the whole body, so C S T referred to, so I'm super excited for Alyssa to answer this question in just a moment. I'm so excited for you to have that. I don't know, in our team's editing, so I'm just gonna keep talking.

As far as Jenny, I love her. And her advice here. You know, as far as non-pharmaceutical options, Brad actually used to be in a company where they experienced not being able to like, get FDA approval. Yeah. On a drug that could have helped people who had herpes sores around their mouth because it was an all natural product.

Brad Crowell: [00:12:00] Yeah. It got fucked up the way that the, the government allows you to patent things and to for, you know, the formulas in medicines. So there was a scientist doctor who figured out how he could use plants to solve to attack the herpes virus. 

So there's this company that I used to work with where there was a doctor scientist who had figured out some parts of some plants that could actually help humans battle herpes one, two, and three. So like three is shingles, herpes one and two are, you know what, you know, but the, the... 

Lesley Logan: Do you know what my, my sex ed teacher said to me? And his daughter was in my class. He said it used to be the herpes one was up here and herpes too was down there, but then everyone got creative and now herpes one and two are, are happening everywhere. That's, that was explained to me in high school and my friend who was his daughter was like, I'm so embarrassed.[00:13:00] 

Anyways, keep going. 

Brad Crowell: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Picking it back up. So what actually happened was they figured out a formula that's all natural and they tried to get it approved by the fda and they couldn't because there were no chemicals in it that they could actually , you know, patent. And so it became this crazy journey to then like insert unneeded chemicals into this all natural product just so they could get a patent on it. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. So eventually everything stopped because, what the fuck? 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. So anyways, Cassie definitely, you know, continue your journey on figuring out what works for you because when it does come to menopause, it does. Ah, like perimenopause does.

It's very personal approach and you do have to try out different things. And if you listen to the last recap, we actually talked about some books for that. And then as far as craniosacral goes I know you don't live in Connecticut, so Alyssa might not be your person, but take a listen to her. Reach out to her.

There's gotta be somebody else. The Yeah. Reach out to her and and we'll work on getting some other full episodes on that, but I just didn't want you to wait until we could get [00:14:00] someone in to record them, cuz it might be months from now. So here is her amazing advice.

Cassie Bernard: What is cranial sacro therapy? So cranial sacral therapy is a gentle hands-on technique that's used to assess your essential nervous system and your body's fascia. Your fascia is a connective tissue that lines every organ, every muscle, every bone, and every neuron in your body. And so sometimes the, this body's fascia can get tight and wound up and it needs some, um, help and relieving some tension.

And your central nervous system is made up. Of your brain and your spinal cord. So we're really using cranial sacral therapy to assess what's going on in that central nervous system, and also feeling the movements of the bones of the skull, something that isn't really talked about much. Those bones are constantly moving and sometimes when the body's fascia is a little bit tight, um, and there's some tension there, it can hinder some movement of those bones, and [00:15:00] certain symptoms can show up like migraines or headaches, or even tmj.

So those are gonna be some conditions that cranial sacro therapy is really helpful in relieving. And if you also have a history of trauma, uh, maybe P T S D, um, have past surgery, can also create some scar tissue and help in wind up that body's fascia. And so we really see, um, that emotions can be stored in the body's fascia as well, and that can cause some issues.

With the connective tissue in its movement. So cranial sacral therapy can be very helpful in those conditions. It's also very helpful in chronic headaches or migraines also, um, TMJ or, um, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, anxiety, or depression, it can be very helpful for those conditions because we're assessing the body's.

Um, sometimes when we're assessing, um, there can be a misalignment and. Relieving [00:16:00] some of that tension can help with some of those symptoms. And in terms of perimenopause, it can be very helpful if you're experiencing any mood changes, anxiety or depression because we really are working to support the central nervous system and support the um, parasympathetic nervous system specifically, which is our rest and digest center.

Many of us don't spend enough time in that part of our nervous system. So supporting it can be very helpful and stimulating that part of the nervous system can be very helpful as well in relieving some of those mood changes in perimenopause. I really hope this was helpful and answered some of your questions about cranial sacral therapy.

If you're looking for a cranial sacral therapist, A quick Google search of cranial sacral therapist near me can be helpful. You're looking for somebody who's certified in cranial sacral therapy. They may be a massage therapist, a physical therapist. Also, naturopathic doctors like me can also perform cranial sacral therapy as well.

So, um, I really hope this was [00:17:00] helpful and I definitely recommend getting, um, giving cranial sacral therapy a try.

Lesley Logan: And we'll be right back.

Brad Crowell: Okay. Now let's talk about Jay Twining. As a past game designer who made the decision not to repeat his own father's mistakes, Jay Twining is an example of a father navigating his career and parenting. He now works as a personal brand strategist.

And is a creator of the Feel Good Fatherhood podcast. And he highlights honest conversations with men about fatherhood. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, it's kind of like the fitness guys we've had. So like, just another, I think it's cool that there's some dudes out there going, Hey, we actually wanna be vulnerable and we wanna have deeper conversations. Wouldn't that be cool? I think it's really awesome. 

Brad Crowell: I totally agree. And also the last, the interview with Jay was like, yeah, we talked about his pod, but actually we talked mostly about his story. 

Lesley Logan: I know. Oh, I love the journey. 

Brad Crowell: How he came to the decision [00:18:00] of, you know, what the pod was and then you know, where he is today and what he's doing now. And the struggle that he went through to having achieved his like personal goal and then realizing that the achieving of that goal is actually wrecking his life. 

Lesley Logan: Well, and also since we interviewed him, he and his family were able to like sell their house Yeah. And move to Nashville. And now he is supporting the family so his wife can go figure out what she wants to do because...

Brad Crowell: Yeah, they've been able to flip. 

Lesley Logan: She's, yeah, they've been flipping it. So I think it's just, this is like a really pretty cool, I think it's really cool because like in relationships, like who said, it's like 50 50 and then I watched up the view for one second and this, and this one woman who's whose name is for like escaping me, but she's like, it's 90 10, 90% someone, 10% the other.

But the point is that it shouldn't be 90% always one person. Like it switches back and forth. Yeah. And I. And I think I think that makes a lot of sense. So anyways I really enjoyed this conversation. I actually wanted to bring [00:19:00] up the part where he said, it's totally fine for you to be alone. What is not okay is for you to feel lonely. And that was from another game developer when he was working. And I just really enjoyed this because I think that like we, it can get confusing about like, should we, like how much time we should be spending with people. Like what should we be doing? Like how busy should we be?

You know, like some people are like too busy to die, like everyone's just really busy or then they're like, they do nothing. They, the pendulum swings so far away and, and it's important to like acknowledge like, I am alone in this moment, but I am not lonely and like understanding what your feelings are.

As you're going, as you're going through it. So I really like that. And then he also said that he tried to come up with the five questions that help you can build, that can help you build a relationship with anybody. So like, you know, Brad, you've been in sales, I've been in sales. Like you start to buy rejection, learn what, like the best things and the easiest things are to get [00:20:00] information about what people want.

You know, like what people are, what people are motivated by, what people are interested in talking about. Like you get really good at that when you are in a job that's a sub solve service industry job, like at a restaurant or in a store. And so if you've never had those jobs, you might not have these skill sets, but start to pay attention to what questions light you up when you answer them. Like if someone asks you a question you can't, you like are like, wow. Yeah, no one's ever asked me that before. Write these things down in notes in your phone because he was like, have these top five questions because it allows you to be in a room with anybody and really get into a deep conversation with someone. And start to build a relationship because we all need friendships in this world, and they're gonna come in a variety of places, but like, you know, oftentimes we'll be like, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Great. What do you doing? How you doing today? Great. Oh, the weather still alive. Let's talk about them cowboys, blah, blah, blah. Boring, boring, boring. 

Brad Crowell: I think I, and the, the reality is it's easy to deflect. You know, with, with like superficial top level questions and [00:21:00] answers like that. But getting deeper definitely takes practice. You know, it's like you can still like think through it and be prepared and then when you're in the moment, you're like blank and you forget, you know? So in order to, you have to be intentional about the conversation. 

Lesley Logan: And it means you have to actually listen. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, but you could be listening and they're doing superficial shit is my point. So like, you know, if you want, you know, having a list of questions is great idea because it allows you to steer the conversation to a deeper place where you can get to know them well.

Lesley Logan: And also if you don't wanna talk about work, then make sure your questions to them don't have to do with their work. Because the reciprocity game is that if you ask 'em about what they do, they are going to ask most likely what you do. Yeah. So if you don't wanna do that, You have to talk about like, oh my gosh, what are your, like, what are your favorite restaurants?

Or we just moved here. Like, you know, where, where do you go for date night? Where do you go to like, just like relax. Where do you go to just like get in touch with [00:22:00] nature? Oh my gosh. They might go, oh wow, I haven't gotten in touch with nature in 10 years. You could have a deep conversation about that. You know, so like, it's okay, you know, I like, I, these are just, I thought these were practical tips.

I really enjoyed it. What did you love? 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, so he said part of the feel good fatherhood. Is really being in touch with what's happening on the inside, knowing that you have an emotion and that you know how to handle it. And he, he was a really talking a lot about anger and how that's like a built-in response.

Mostly you know, and, and we don't realize that that's a natural response but letting that, you know, carry through. It's important to feel the feels, but also you can't just freak out and fly off the handle. But he was also talking about vulnerability and you know, where, when is it appropriate to share and when is it not appropriate to share?

And he talked about like the stoic man [00:23:00] approach, where the heroes, you know, like, like the, like think about. I guess, I guess Clark Kent had Lois Lane and he was probably vulnerable with her, but you know, from the rest of society's perspective, like he's just a man of steel and he's never vulnerable cuz he's always taken care of business or any of these superheroes.

Lesley Logan: Did Lois Lane know that he was a superhero? 

Brad Crowell: I don't think, at first, I don't think so. I, I think at the end, towards, towards the middle and the end of their relationship. It's the same with Spider-Man and Mary Jane. I mean, oh yeah. She didn't know at first, but, you know. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I, but you know what's so interesting? Like, I feel like this, this is great advice for everybody, not just like, I love it that I, I think it's so important for men to be having this conversation and to like, really, I think this is really, really important, but I also think that like, Everyone listening to this could also go, huh, I need to like, understand these things.

I need to understand the things about myself. I need to understand what's going on inside of my body. [00:24:00] I know I need to understand how to express my emotions in a way that is not restrictive, but also appropriate. You know, like... 

Brad Crowell: I feel like there's a lot of generational, like, like yeah, it's generational too. You know, like, like, You know, your dad is in his seventies. My parents are in their sixties. You know, as, as the generations have gone by, I do think that there's a different approach. You know, think about like listening to stories of your dad, talk about his parents. It's fucking horrifying. Unbelievable to me. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I would call that abuse. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. It's, it's like, like, Like listening to him tell stories, it's just jaw dropping, you know? 

Lesley Logan: And, and that would, that would to like today, that would be considered child abuse. Yeah. But back then, I think that was how every child was raised.

Brad Crowell: But also even just the relationship between his dad and mom.

Oh, it was like, didn't that there was like it, you know, it was just no love. Fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating to listen to how far things have shifted and, and I think hopefully in a [00:25:00] positive way, you know, but, but even my parents didn't talk about you know, sex, money, religion, politics. They did not talk about it. It just never, you know? 

Lesley Logan: Well, you know, I think a lot of people's relationship with their parents, with their fathers since this is what this episode about, especially, at least in your parents' generation. My parents' generation, like my grandmother did work cuz my, my grandfather, my mom's mom worked because my mom's dad. Also worked, but he was like blue collar. Like he was in the plants. Y'all, he had a uniform, had his name Jake on it. Pompadour. Right. You know, and like had the same job forever. He fucking retired from the same job. 40 years. And my grandmother did have a job. Also, she also, she was 16 when she had a parent, had a baby. So there's that. But my dad's parents, like, that's a traditional, like American family kids of the fifties and sixties. She didn't work. She ran the house. Right. And dad, grandpa went to work every single day and he came home, [00:26:00] he drank. And he didn't talk to his kids and they would only talk when they're hunting.

And if you got lost, you got lost in good luck finding a campsite on your way home. Like, yeah. And so I think like, so that was my dad's representation of parents. Yeah. So for him to actually be a father that like I truly love and so grateful for. It is shocking. 

Brad Crowell: Well, what, what, what, coming back to what Jay was talking about too, and, and like, you know, yes. Your dad, I think would be the, the ideal like, representation of the stoic man. Well, I guess it just is what it is. 

Lesley Logan: Totally. And he ended up burning out. He, he was on stress leave from his work for two years, cuz of that. 

Brad Crowell: Oh. I didn't even know. But what, what Jay's talking about is that, you know, the stoic man, you know, They just accept what's happening and keep on and they just keep on keeping on. Right? But he said that emotional self-control is something that is actually attractive in us and something that's expected of us as fathers and men in particular today.[00:27:00] And I think you know that, that like the emotional self-control can be like a clamp around them, you know? And so there's moments where it can be okay to be vulnerable and other times where you do have to keep it together, especially if like there's a catastrophe happening, someone, you know, like hopefully you can keep your head on.

Lesley Logan: I also think that like, it's so important for everyone to have outlets. Like, I think it's so important. Yeah. You know, you were talking with someone in your family about the, the partner need a hobby, you know? And like, and I think like, It is so important that in partnerships there is a place for each person to have the ability to release their emotions. In a vulnerable setting that allows it to go on where, like maybe in front of the children, it's not appropriate to release those emotions in that moment. You gotta figure out what it is, but also like each person has to have a way of expressing themselves That's so, and getting to know themselves and what they need. It's, I think this idea that men should just have it all together is so weird. [00:28:00] It's so weird to me because like women also are expected to have it all together in like certain places and it's just, I think what's happening is like, people are just not being honest with themselves about how they're feeling, what they're feeling, and they don't have people to go to. And you know, you and I have best friends that we are best friends, but we also have best friends that are not this you and I, because you have to have other people. You cannot be 100% of everything I ever needed in this world. You know, back when there was tribes, like there was the partner, but then there was the women's group who did this and there was this over here. And like, that's important so that each, each person can like express how they're feeling without putting pressure on the other person to like have it, like hold it all together. Yeah. And I, I think, you know, with the hobbies and stuff, like I think about sports and, you know, playing whatever, just like that kind of a thing is a way to release that energy.

But also, honestly, I really would encourage. Communication with your partner. As the way [00:29:00] to, to get that information out. And and Jay was hinting it, not hinting it, he straight up said, you know, it's important for men to understand how to communicate what is going on inside them, to be tuned in to what is happening inside them, and to be able to express that meaningfully. And, you know, not in like anger, but actually have a discussion about it. And, and you know, I mean, I, I know that my first relationship I blame a lot of it exploding due to poor communication. Poor communication when were dating, poor communication when we were, you know, moving poor communication when we were together.

And, you know, unfortunately it's, it takes two to tango. So it was, you know, both of us not, not really figuring that out. And when. That was like my ultimate decision at the end was like, how come this all blew up? Why the expectations weren't met? Well, why weren't the expectations weren't met? Is because they weren't communicated very well. And I think that, you [00:30:00] know, when, when it comes to this stuff, especially the stoic man, it creates, you know, a ticking time bomb of a person. You know, that eventually is something's gonna snap, you know? So that communication is key. 

I love it. Yeah. All right. It goes back to those five fucking questions.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully you can ...(Lesley: and other things.) Yeah. I mean, if you're still asking five questions of your partner, then 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, I mean, it's so hard you guys, this is, this is why there are therapists in this world and there are groups and. And it's not easy to be an, an adult in a new city.

It's not easy to, you know, like, it's so funny to me. My grandparents, my mom's parents were married for I guess 58 years. ...(Brad: Wow). 58 years. Yeah. Yeah. That's how my, I think that's how my mom was when my grandma passed. 

Brad Crowell: Oh, your your mom's 

Lesley Logan: My mom's parents. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And 

Brad Crowell: Right cuz they got [00:31:00] married at 16 and 17 or something. 

Lesley Logan: And what is their, what? How we asked 'em how did you stay married? And they said, we don't count the first nine years. Yeah. And it's cuz they tried to divorce each other and it didn't work out right, because it cost money. So at any rate I like, what's so crazy is like back in the day, like you just didn't get divorced. You just like sucked it up, right? You just kept it in and you just kept going. ...(Brad: Talk about the stoic man) and like talk about stoic everything. And it's so interesting because like I was just reading the Be It Instagram and like some people were sharing the shame they had at divorcing at 30, yeah. From the episode we had with Renee Bauer. And it's so funny to me cuz I'm like, how cool did we get? How cool is that we have to live in a world where you go, Ooh, this person, no, this person does not bring out the best in me. I did not bring out the best in them. 

Brad Crowell: I mean, I'll tell you what, what the, when my, when my ex and I, when it was all going downhill in my mind I kept tell, asking the question like why did I ever get married in the first place?

Which was shocking to [00:32:00] me cause I always wanted to be married and then I didn't think that divorce was an option because in my family, you don't get divorced. So I was like, I guess this is life now. And I will figure it out. I don't fucking know, but it, but I was literally resigned to that and I was like, all right, I guess this is gonna be what it's gonna be.

Mm-hmm. And I'm really happy that my ex was t he one who was like, I'm not okay with that. We're done. Because if it had been my decision, we will probably have suffered. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And so like thank, I mean like thank God for that, for her. But also like that those experiences like help us all. Like if you can actually learn from the experiences that you didn't enjoy in your past, I think they all come down to listening to other people and communicating your needs. Anyways, we have Be It action items. 

Brad Crowell: We do.[00:33:00] 

All right, so finally let's talk about those, Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Jay Twining? All right. He said he had three questions that were the three core steps. He said, success leaves clues. And the first step is research. Right? So whatever, whatever it is that you're going after with your career or your goals or your life or whatever he said, you need to research it. And then the second is you need to practice it. And then the third is that you have to evaluate whether or not you still like it.

So let's dig into each of those. So, He talked about research. He did a bunch of research and he was reading a lot of books, blogs. He talked about his old mentor and then he said, if you know, or someone who is a mentor of his said, if you want to be an investor, then you have to do what investors [00:34:00] do.

You have to read the financial reports every day. So if your goal is to be a blogger or a podcaster or a pilates teacher or a mom, or I don't know, whatever it is, then you gotta dive in. So you gotta actually learn about that thing, right? He said, for example, Warren Buffet reads the investor, he reads the financial reports every single day.

So if you wanna do the thing. Do the work every single day. 

Lesley Logan: That is definitely being until you see it. Yeah. Yeah. So the other two are apply and practice, which this is like the I'm in, I'm in. So apply and practice. So like for ex example, you, if you wanna invest, you gotta to like apply what you're learning and do that, and then you have to evaluate it.

So you actually have to like, Look back and go, how did that feel? Do I like it? What worked? What didn't work? And then ask yourself if you wanna keep trying it. So if you don't, if investing doesn't like light your fire. 

Brad Crowell: Oh, it's not necessarily about investing. This is whatever your goal is. 

Lesley Logan: Whatever your goals. [00:35:00] So for example, you might, and I use jeans a lot because everybody buys jeans. You might think that you want high wasted skinny jeans, and you are like, yep, this is what I want. But you gotta go research like, okay, where are the highways and skinny jeans at? Where can I buy these? Where's the price point that I'm willing to do?

Then you have to go and try them on, and then you actually have to evaluate, do I like how these feel on my body? Do I like this? I know Jay's probably like, this is nothing to do with fatherhood. I know, bu I'm, but, but this is like a way to picture yourself, like taking the research, applying and, and practicing it, and you just like go, okay, how does this feel? How does this make me feel? Do I like how I feel? And then you can make your changes. You can actually return shit that you don't like, and then you can go off and do another thing. Maybe in the meantime someone was like, Hey, I think these would look good on you. And you go, whoa, I think I like this. But then you still have to apply, practice and evaluate. 

Brad Crowell: So yeah, another good example is that my sister. went to [00:36:00] school for biology and wanted to become a, a pa, a physician's assistant. And she's like, oh, did, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna, I'm in on this. And she went to, to undergrad and, you know, she made, she had a lot of fun playing soccer there as well. And she went and did this, this biology degree. In undergrad and in order to become a pa you have to have, you know, a couple thousand hours of experience working in a hospital before they even let you in the program. So she was like, all right. So she went and started working in the ER at a hospital near where we grew up and hated it. Absolutely hated it and had the willingness to say, this is not for me. I need to figure something else out. And then you know, ended up finding. A love of project management when she went to work for another company in the field of soccer and and that's now, now she's doing that with us. Now she's doing that and she loves it.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. [00:37:00] Yeah. So I love this. I thought these Be It Action Items are really easy to apply no matter, no matter who you are in this world, father or not. Yeah. So I thank you, Jay, for being an incredible human, and I love what you're doing. And if you have fathers in your life, go send 'em to the Feel Good Fatherhood. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell: And I'm Brad crowell. 

Lesley Logan: Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for listening to this and asking your questions. If you are getting the Be It Pod in emails every single Thursday, there's an easy way to submit the questions you want us to answer on that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell: Bye for now.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. [00:38:00] Be It Till You see. 

It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell: Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.