Be It Till You See It

An honest conversation about the journey through fatherhood, balancing a career, and navigating the emotions that come up throughout the process. 

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In this episode you will learn about:

• The history of Feel Good Fatherhood.
• Navigating the new career of being a parent.
• The process of going back to zero.
• Why Feel Good Fatherhood exists.
• The value of men recognizing what is happening on the inside and communicating it. 

Episode References/Links:

• Jay Twining Website
• Follow Jay on LinkedIn
• Feel Good Fatherhood

Guest Bio:

A game designer for 10 years but something was missing. Jay is striving to be a devoted father, chasing his career in branding, and opening the conversation about fatherhood on his podcast Feel Good Fatherhood. 

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• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan 0:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, hey, hey, all right, I have an amazing episode for you. This is definitely umm, it's, it's, I'm just so excited. First of all, we have a surprise guest and a surprise. So we have the guest, who's Jay Twining, and I'm so excited. He is one of our strategists that helps us work on our business. So we know him very well. We know how he is when it comes to like working on your business, growing, noodling, and getting deep dive in there. And what I loved is learning so much about him and how he got to where he is. I hope that what you discover as you're learning from this is that we all have a journey. And too often because of perfectionism, overachiever ism, we discount ourselves from being qualified to do certain things. And because Jay did not, as you'll hear in the story, he actually put himself in spaces that really helped get him to exactly where he is today. And then also led him to the ability to do something that he dreamed about many, many, many years ago. So dreams take time. And this interview has a really lovely storyline for you to see not only yourself and the journey, but also for those of you who have men in your lives or a male listener to this. I think you'll really enjoy what he's working on right now. Have an amazing time listening to Jay Twinning. 

Hello Be It babes, okay. I'm so excited. We actually have a wonderful, amazing guest here and also Brad here, who the wonderful, amazing guest is and he changed his plans, y'all. He was gonna go for an afternoon walk. I'm just, I'm pretty sure... (Brad: I'm here today), I'm pretty sure that was (...). And he was gonna take from someone else.

Brad Crowell 0:25  

It was Dai Manuel (Lelsley: yeah), I was gonna do my 30. 

Lesley Logan 0:28  

Yeah. And he's doing the self development part first. Lesson's called that... (Brad: that's what we're doing). So the reason why Brad is here is because we've an amazing man, who we've come to know for more than a year now, maybe longer. His name is Jay Twining. And he is actually, we go, he's really close to us, because he works with us on our business every single month. So, Jay, will you tell everyone who you are and what you're rockin out right now?

Jay Twining 0:51  

Absolutely. So, I am a resident brand strategist for Brand Builders Group. And so I get to, I have the pleasure, I have the privilege of working with folks just like these two building their brand. But also, what I do is I have a well, I do Feel Good Fatherhood. And so that's a show. And I just like working with dads and having conversations about what they're about. And that really, really kind of lights me up.

Lesley Logan 1:15  

So I love this because I think a lot of people don't end up with a coach who's also a client of some kind, like actually doing the thing that they coach on. And so I actually really appreciate it because you, with Feel Good Fatherhood, you're coming at everything that we're doing from the same place like you know how much time and energy an episode like this takes, like, I think our listeners might be like, Oh, this is like a 30 minute episode or however long it is. And let me just tell you the amount of hours pre and after to get it is not 30 isn't even double 30 minutes. So what made you want to get started with Feel Good Fatherhood? I guess we can almost start there because that's kind of like why you'd be even interested in coaching people on this on on the journey you're going.

Brad Crowell 1:55  

Yeah, which came first here, chicken or the egg?

Jay Twining 1:58  

Got it. We'll do Feel Good Father first. So this is this is great. 

Brad Crowell 2:00  

I mean, did you start Feel Good Fatherhood prior to becoming a BBG Coach? 

Jay Twining 2:06  

Oh, no, this was afterwards... (Brad: Okay). However, the, I would say the genesis of the idea was long time ago. And so when I was making games, so I was a game designer for about 10 years. Living the life I was in actually is in San Diego, in, you guys, neck of the woods. And I went to, I think the first thing we got to do was like preface, what it's like any industry and so lots of hours, overtime crunch is kind of common knowledge. Not that different from being a business owner. ot that different from being a say in Hollywood, something like that. So lots of hours is the normal cadence. So I woke up one day, and it was a normal day, I left for work at a normal time, and my daughter wasn't awake. And then I went for my standard eight hours eight and a bit. And I came home a regular day came home at a regular time. And she was asleep by time I came home. And the thing I did was I walked upstairs, I woke her up to sing her lullaby. And while I was sitting there doing this, when I came back down, I had this inner turmoil. So I just had this moment where the things that I'm doing in my life, the way that I've set up my day to day, they aren't really aligned with number one who I learned later on who I am, like my new identity, but also with what I'm doing. And so while I was doing my dream work, and while I was really activated and fulfilled, and while I loved everything I was doing creating games, and providing entertainment for people all over the world. It wasn't filling my cup anymore.

Brad Crowell 3:41  

And presumably that was because of your daughter.

Jay Twining 3:43  

Yes, because of my daughter, and my wife and my family and...

Lesley Logan 3:49  

Listening to guys, let's make sure that the wife (...)

Brad Crowell 3:50  

100% percent.

Jay Twining 3:53  

And it took me a while like I kind of had the niggling sense. Like I had the sense somewhere in my body, like it was showing up in my body and lots of things were going on. It took me about four years to figure out, it's time for me to leave. It's time for me to pursue something new. All this kind of happened, that's sort of the preface that's the scene. What was really happening was that my daughter was born about three weeks after a major studio that I was working at closed and it was very public. Incredibly stressful. It was 38 Studios. So for the listeners if they want to go down the rabbit hole of public business and private business, it's it's pretty crazy what happened. And we went through that and so full company closure, no no health insurance, no nothing, baby born in Providence, Rhode Island, tons of stress. Within a month got had the next position moved across the country. So uprooted from all my support group, uprooted from all my mentors, uprooted from all my friends, like everything. My, my parents were living abroad in Singapore. So they were 12 hours off. So I had, I didn't have that support network anymore. And then, and then the, and then her parents were on the other side of the country. So it was like a six to eight hour, it was a full day trip just to come visit us. Yeah. So you can imagine, like, at this time and a family, you need local support. 

Lesley Logan 5:20  

Yeah. Well, I also just want to observation I had, because first of all, you're like, it took four years. And I think some people are like, wow, it took four years, if you had this moment, like four years is actually a short amount of time when it comes to like, transforming the life that you want to, like, go from like, this career to like, how do I actually change that. And also, it makes so much sense because if you like, lost everything in a moment that like, felt like so much certainty. You're so new in this job, with a new child and everything, like the last thing you want to do is go let me just like fly by the seat of my pants. It's a moment. So I think it actually makes more sense. Why it took four years. 

Brad Crowell 5:57  

Yeah, I think that's what that's kind of the experience I had too because for easily two years, you know, you and I would like I need to get out of my job. I need to get out of my job. How am I gonna get out my job? What would, what am I going to do? What could I do instead? Right? And then after, like, finally leaving, I had another two years of like, still trying to figure out how am I going to build my business? How am I going to make money? How am I gonna do this? Until we settled on what today might look like. So yeah, that seems far for the course. 

Jay Twining 6:30  

Awesome. And all very true. And so when we so then we have all this stuff going on. And then finally in the last, here's the last straw. The same year my daughter was born, in May, my biological father died in December.

Lesley Logan 6:46  

Oh, geez. So like, so now we just layered it. 

Jay Twining 6:50  

So everything's like happening. Oh, and by the end, and then on top of it, in November, because we were estranged. And this is the real this is kind of the real genesis of Feel Good Fatherhood we were estranged 15 years, no relationship with my biological father, my sister and I were looking for him, like public records, everything just like where are you? Do you? Are you alive? like standard questions like that. And so all this kind of stuff is happening on and then a couple years later, when things finally slow down and stuff, like it just kind of hits me I was like, I never wanted to be a father to my kids, like my biological father was to me. Oh, and that, and that story of the estranged parent, you know, like, I love data. So two out of five kids in the United States are in fatherless households, 40%, there's a reasonable odds that every person that you meet grew up grew up in a fatherless households, that's a reasonable number 40%, that's almost the majority. So when I when I kind of combined all these different pieces of data, the way that I kind of find success in my life, is that I kind of do two or three core things, right, I kind of like to talk and engage in a community to kind of figure out what's going on, that was gone. I like to find people that are ahead of me on the journey or walking with me on the journey, and hanging out there. And that didn't really exist. There were no new fathers around me. It was completely outside of that, that group. And then the other one, in the other place where I leaned a lot on is family. And that was, that was out. Right? So because I mean, they were a phone call away. But it's it's kind of different in the face to face interaction being in it is different than that kind of interaction. And so now we're, so now that we understand the history, Feel Good Fatherhood exists, because there were two things were going through my mind. Number one, I don't think my experience is that weird for new dads. I think it's very common. And I think it's very common today. And I think more fathers today go through what I went through than not... (Lesley: right). And number two, I think that sucks. I think that's the worst state. And I think that, in general, not only for fathers, but for parents, the whole scope, that we don't do a really good job of, of a society of gathering around people that are intricately valuable in the world. Like being good parents just being present, just being a present parent, like not even the qualifier to being a good parent, because that in and of itself is a journey. Just being in the room. And raising is is that's already hard. You've added another career on top of everything else you're doing.

Lesley Logan 9:38  

Yeah, I think we most of our listeners are, I would say are a parent in some stage of that. And it is, first of all the pressure on parents to like, it's like they're like, here's your child and all the pressure in the world, on your shoulders now. And if you didn't have and I would say you If you said 40% are fatherless homes, then I would say all those moms that they were those 40% they had moms who were like overworked, underpaid, and like, under like prioritize in their life. So so many people don't have an example role model of anything that shows that like, this can also be something that I love. It could be something that could be that could feel good to go with your title also, like it's possible. And if you but if you don't have a support system, which if you don't have a parent around, that's if you're down one, so Oh, that's a lot that's...

Brad Crowell 10:34  

Also... (Lesley: articulate) well, also I think there was you kind of slipped it in there. But you said, this new career of being a parent, you know, it is easily as comparable or even more so than a career move, like a job move. Yeah.

Jay Twining 10:51  

Yes, and I think and when I, when I think about and I explain it that way, I think about any sort of hard skill that you need, like, we're all kind of business owners here, right? So there are probably off the top of our heads, probably 25 different things that you need to basically master to have a successful business. It's the same number for raising kids, like, so you're so on top of everything else is going on, we're just we're just trying to figure out, let alone the physical care of have a new have a new baby, you're learning new interaction styles with your spouse, they have all the same fatigue and frustration you do. So like when you think about the powder keg of the house, it's like it's so easy. And this is why you know...

Brad Crowell 11:41  

For those that are watching YouTube, that was the mind blown emotion. 

Lesley Logan 11:44  

Yes, but also my brain went like if these walls could talk, it's almost like there needs to be a show about house walls. It's like, oh, oh, this this and we are going going back now they have a kid. So here, watch this. Watch this. Go. Let's see how this goes.

Jay Twining 12:00  

I had this funny way back in the you know, Adult Swim the cartoon. I had this weird idea when I was a kid of having a cartoon of a bunch of wheels. Talking about the conversations happening in the car... (Lesley: Yes. Yeah). There they go again. Oh, Jerry's lost again. Not asking for help. Here we go. Oh, Margaret's doing that, like just this crazy stuff. And that would be really hilarious. So...

Lesley Logan 12:27  

Oh, my gosh. Also, like further. It could be based in LA it's like the same cars on the same freeway. The same wheels are seeing each other. Oh, gosh. You (...)

Jay Twining 12:35  

How you doing? How you doing? Oh, yup, I saw you yesterday. It's good. All right, let's let's move 10 feet. Okay!

Lesley Logan 12:42  

I digress. Um, so. So Jay, it took you four years to like, go from this inner turmoil to like making a shift. Was the shift like, did you go part time? Did you just like leap and the net will appear? Like, what was the next? What was that next step that you could take after you had this feeling?

Jay Twining 12:59  

Let's just let's just kind of layer on stuff. So at this time, I was still trying to make the career work. And when I actually made the decision, I was living and working in Cambridge, Massachusetts, while my family was in Albany, New York. And so Friday night, I would leave work, jump on the, jump on the freeway drive back three, three hours, pull in at 10 o'clock. My young, four year old daughter would be awake at 10 on a Friday night, which is fine. So, So we'd have....

Lesley Logan 13:28  

What are rules? What is a bedtime anyway?

Jay Twining 13:30  

Exactly. So so we were just cramming in, like two days, because roughly right around Sunday, like I'd be driving back ballin, like there were so many times I drove back along the freeway just crying because I'm like, What the hell am I doing with my life? And so all this stuff happened. And the real pivotal moment for me was when I finally decided that it was time to really make the switch, because all this had been brewing to this point was I misunderstood, I was having a discussion with my wife about coming and checking things out in Boston for moving there. And then she said, she said, I don't even remember what she said. But what I heard was, I'm not moving to come to you, like in a in like a separation style. And so I had a mental break at work. I like, I stopped moving for about 30 minutes, because I couldn't process what was happening. And then like a bunch of my co workers came to me and they were like, are you okay? Do you need to go home, like what's going on? So I came out of it. And I was like, and I, you know, because I was relatively young was younger than I am now. And I kind of worked for a bit but then I went home and just kind of processed everything and I was like this, isn't it, like this isn't working. This is ended and what was happening was not going to be different from what my life would look like. If I stayed in that career, if I stayed making games... (Lesley: Hmm). So, so this happened and then, you know, six to nine months later there was downsizing. So I was out of work anyways. But by that time happened, I was actively looking for the next position I was actively...

Brad Crowell 15:11  

Also, I feel like mentally, you must have been, you know, not necessarily welcoming it, but but ready to be making that change. And... (Jay: yeah) when, you know, when that happened at the job, it was like, kind of in lockstep with you. 

Jay Twining 15:26  

So it was it was kind of weird. I remember my boss, when we had the conversation, he was like, Oh, you're handling this very well. You're just being like, like yeah...

Brad Crowell 15:36  

Like, (...) out the door most of the year.

Lesley Logan 15:38  

Yeah (...) Oh, so when I was asked to quit, I was like, oh, do you want me to do so today? would today be a good day? Like, because we don't want to fire you. And I'm like, eell, you fire me and I'd be over today. So do you want me to quit today? Like, do you want a two weeks notice? They're like, are you okay? I'm like, um, I guess I've been planning this for a while.

Jay Twining 15:57  

So like, the only thing I can say to those to those guys, is that it wasn't you and I wasn't at my best. And so if there's anything going on there. So and then it started a whole bunch of years of just not making a lot of money. Trying to hit it because I had you know, I was at you know, I was a solid 10 years in great salary, great career being actively recruited by like Microsoft, and places over in San Francisco, like, just constantly having these discussions about going to these different places and these bigger studios and me just having to say, nope, I'm retiring this part of my life. So all this kind of stuff happened. And I had been thinking about being a game developer. So I was like, I ended up being a game designer, game system designer is my specialty, since I was like, eight. So when all this happened, and then when we when we really take a look at it, my entire identity, like was completely wrapped up in this career. I had almost nothing to back up on or fall back on... (Lesley: Yeah). And so and when we take the moving from place to place and upgrading social support, it was like I didn't, like, I had nothing. 

Brad Crowell 17:09  

You didn't feel like I had a community either... (Jay: I had nothing) (Lesley: I guess)... (Jay: It was crazy).

Lesley Logan 17:13  

Yeah. We're how old it just so I'm perspective time, like how old is their daughter when this happened?

Jay Twining 17:21  

So we left? I started working at the Cambridge place when she was four, it would have been around six. She was six when this was all happening. And so she's turning 11. Now, so this would been four or five years ago... (Lelsley: Wow. Yeah). So basically, she was six, I spent about a year and a half, a year, just figuring stuff out, I had to, I'd have developed a whole new set of skills. And for everybody that's out there that the number one skill you need when you're starting a business or trying something new is sales, and I had no sales experience.

Brad Crowell 17:56  

So did you work at a restaurant?

Jay Twining 17:59  

Well, I was a busboy at a restaurant, so I was kind of doing that stuff. But I didn't have any that experience. And so I had I deep dived into sales, I worked at a I was an internal salesperson for a direct sales company selling multi $1,000 products. And that was a really steep uphill climb and started to get that thing going.

Lesley Logan 18:20  

Way to like throw yourself in, like, let's just dive into the hardest thing.

Brad Crowell 18:23  

I literally would have just gone into food and been a server. Yeah. That doesn't take quite as much as being assistant salesperson.

Jay Twining 18:32  

Something that I really had to get over. And I still get over a lot. It's just I had a really, I still kind of do like, kind of arrogant sometimes, like in my in here in my head. I have a big ego. And at that time of my life, I was like, Well, I'm used to this kind of lifestyle. So when I come in, I gotta make this big projects... (Brad: Yeah) you know, game designers we have a chip right here on the shoulder. 

Lesley Logan 18:58  

Yes, I've been to several game designer, Christmas parties, actually. So yes.

Jay Twining 19:05  

Very confident and very self assured. We've got the plan, we have the vision and our whole, like a huge part of our job is enrolling everybody in what we're doing and getting the vision going. And so it was really hard to start back at zero. Yeah, so so it kind of took time and the one good thing that I had going for me is that I guess I still have this I don't have a if I was internally saying this, it's I have a low sense of self awareness in that I don't always when I see something I'm like sure I'll just go try that. Like why not? And so there was this open sales position for, it's kind of embarrassing when I say it now, but I opened sales position for a Sotheby's real estate agent. I didn't need I didn't know what Sotheby's was.

Lesley Logan 19:56  

Oh yeah, there's zero imposter, you have none. You're like I can do that... (Jay: And I did)

Brad Crowell 20:01  

 I might as well be a salesperson for them.

Lesley Logan 20:04  

Exactly. Listening, you know what you should try that try.

Brad Crowell 20:08  

If you don't know, Sotheby's is like the biggest in the world, and that's probably a very, very competitive role.

Jay Twining 20:15  

Luxury. So it's luxury second homes. Average listing price is 750 plus. The people that have these these kinds of homes, like, this is their second, third and fourth home... (Brad: Right). So the average clientele, their multi millionaires if not billionaires, and they, they have homes and places we like to travel to hotels to vacation.

Lesley Logan 20:38  

Yeah. Yeah. (...) I've been there... (Brad: Let's do it) (..) Did you get the job?

Jay Twining 20:47  

Well, I got I got an interview. And, and, and we talked about maybe doing the work, but where it ended up, so but my skill set at that point was actually an information businesses, so information products, courses, memberships, and online sales. And so instead of, he didn't really bring me in for the real estate agent, he was like, Would you be interested in helping me build this business was sure. (Lesley: that's so cool) And, uh, sure. And so we worked together for a while, and it was, it was a wild ride. And we we actually built everything and had some great success with it. And then, and then that led me to what I'm currently doing, which is BBG... (Lesley: So that is so crazy, right?)

Brad Crowell 21:31  

I love that the interview had nothing to do with the job.

Lesley Logan 21:34  

But also, like, I think, I think, what I, I'm loving this, and I know what our listeners would be doing, they would never have applied for that job. They would never have and I'm not saying go out and apply for jobs, you know, isn't doing but like, they I actually think a lot of like, someone listeners to this might not even apply for the job that they're qualified for. Because they'll talk themselves out of it. And so it's like a perfectionism. So yeah, like, we could just like all gleam not not too much just enough to like, actually go for the thing that we are able to do that we think, Oh, I'm not ready. If you've ever said I'm not ready for that yet. When that when I do this, then I'll be ready. And it's like, if you're waiting for someone to deem you ready to apply for a job or take the next step. No one's doing that. No one is coming around and randomly going, and now you should go for that interview. Like now you're ready, you know, and if they are, I would like you to look around, you may be in a cult. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Maybe not that serious, but something close. So. So that allows you to take all your expertise, and like really help all these people who are putting courses together, they're going on speaking, they're doing these things. And then it sounds like it gave you the time to actually sit back and build your thing from the ground up.

Jay Twining 22:51  

I think the one the number one best thing about this direct sales company that I was working for, and being a salesperson is the sheer amount of personal development that was emphasized. There. There were like if you're not reading and not currently working on you, your mindset, the way you speak on some sort of skill, soft skill, hard skill. Like you don't belong here. That was a language, it's like you just don't belong here. And so I would, I would read Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Cashflow Quadrant, so I was reading Harv Eker secrets, The Millionaire Mind, I was reading like I was reading constantly sales, personal development, sales, personal development. Yeah, just constant like constant courses, constant webinars, always personal development grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, learn as much as you can. And it led to some, like I met some crazy people, like I met a dude. He had a business and his goal was to own real estate in every single state. He was at 20 states. By the time I spoke to him, and like by time I stopped speaking to him, he was at 25. Like he just and that was within a couple of months, like you just hungry and going after it. And it really kind of let me know that the limit of what I could accomplish was based on the amount of work I was going to put in. And so while yes, I didn't have any impostor syndrome, I didn't have any internal self awareness about qualifying for a position. I knew I could work to make it happen. And so there was never in my mind a there has never been a mind. Oh, I don't have that line item. So I'm gonna go do this other thing. Because so I was in video games for 10 years. When I got that position. I was a data analyst. I went to school for French language. So I learned I know a little bit about French culture, France, French art, like fine art in France. And I took computer science as a minor, because I had always kind of been making games in my off time, and that was one of the big pushes. But getting into the industry. Was it this is a common joke about job openings, right? So they'll list a bunch of like skills that you have and say, like 10 years required for an entry level position. Right? So an entry level position for a thing requires 10 years of experience in a bunch of doohickeys. And it's like, it's absurd. And I remember I looked at this entry level position at Vicarious Visions. And it's really funny. I'll continue this one later on. But so I went there, and I was like, oh, requires like one to three years of game development experience. And then, but when I looked at all the rest of it, I was like, I have all the rest. And I sent a resume to it on a lark, because it was a studio I hadn't really heard of. And it was in a place. I was like, Albany, New York. Where's that? So I had no no frame, you know, because I was young and didn't really have a lot of experience in it. But when I had the phone screen, so I was in between. So this is crazy. I was shooting a safety video, a bilingual safety video, English, French, for the company I was working for. So I was on set in front of the camera doing doing this work. The hiring manager called me. And I said, Look, I'm back on set in like 25 minutes. And he's like what? I said, I said, I didn't really know you were going to call, I appreciate it. But I've got about 20 minutes, what can we talk about? And so in that conversation, I said, yes, I had worked in building my own games, I had been playfully, playfully coding since I was about my daughter's age. So about eight. My first language was basic, and I made a little text adventure. And so I had been kind of doing this work. And then by the time I got there...

Lesley Logan 26:44  

You actually overqualified for the job really, is what we're finding out.

Jay Twining 26:47  

Okay, that's a little bit of that.

Lesley Logan 26:50  

I'm so sorry. But I just, I just have to interrupt because it's like, what you're what I'm hearing you say is like, we're people are like, going to have to have they have this, I have to have these things. And you brought up like 10 years of this for entry level job. It's like, well, how do you get the entry? How do you get the 10 years experience before, so I love that you're like, I have all the rest of this stuff. So I'm gonna go for it. Because I think people, the perfectionist be like, Oh, I don't have those gotta go take another training and come back later miss out on the opportunity to really like show well, I have these other experiences that would help with this job.

Jay Twining 27:25  

If, if I was thinking about life as a video game, most video games have sort of some sort of technology limit to a level or a skill. So you have a skill in jumping, and the jumping is like nine out of 100. But that's an artificial limit for the context of the game. In real life, there's no upper limit to a skill.

Brad Crowell 27:47  

I think... (Lesley: That is amazing) to take that and so I, I had a really hard time understanding what I could do for whom were outside of my music skills. So I totally understand what you mean, you're like, on set, but you applied to a gaming company. And, and it's like, you know, I never even saw myself, like, the benefit that I could add to any company, any company, it actually did not matter if they were doing, you know, skin, hair care or alcohol. And like, literally, that's how I was able to take my operational mind and make it benefit either of those two companies that I did end up working for, but never what I've actually been like, I should go work at an alcohol company, right? You know, I have no context to understand how my skills could be beneficial.

Jay Twining 28:45  

If you're in the world of the W two, you know, the reason why I brought up that sales competency when you're doing something new, is because most the time you have to articulate why these people can make use of your skills. It I always find it the funniest thing ever, because this video game background has cost me clients, you know, in this personal branding world, because they're kind of like, oh, you made games, you must not take anything seriously. And I'm like...

Brad Crowell 29:11  

Oh, that's so funny.

Lesley Logan 29:12  

Why don't we well, you know what, that's a judgmental person. Goodbye. Not my ICA.

Jay Twining 29:19  

And it's it's okay. Right? Like, that's it? It's no, I really believe people are they're gonna they're doing the best they can with the information that they have and who they are to this point. And yeah, I think you know, some some people. I'll just, I'll just hit this point. Let's just talk about gaming for a minute. 60% of the US population plays games.

Lesley Logan 29:37  

I play a game, least an hour a day, probably two. 

Jay Twining 29:40  

If asking somebody if they play a game, or if they're a gamer is equivalent to asking somebody if they watch movies.

Brad Crowell 29:46  

Right. Yeah.

Jay Twining 29:48  

It's ubiquitous, like gaming is here to stay and it's a part of our life. You may or may not choose to do something with it, but everybody plays. And you know, I think that when we really thinking about what would be the core competencies, competencies of like, why I've been able to do the things that I've been doing is because something that human beings are innately good at, is discovery and learning. We are learning machines, we learn, like the models of the womb, we learn everything, everything you do everything you experience, you reflect, you think on. And you can either apply that knowledge or not that's doing this, like wisdom versus experience. Right? So, wisdom being you can learn from other people's experience experience being you have to personally do it. And hopefully, in your life, you don't have to go through the hard path every single time. Hopefully, at some point, you can learn from other people's experience. And that sales vision and all that personal development was when I really started to unlock that, because to that point, before that position, I had been trying to do so much on my own, and figuring everything out the hard way.

Brad Crowell 30:58  

Yeah, yeah. That's like, and also I feel like, I bet that's when, personally a chip that was on your shoulder, you are starting to let that go. Because that, gotta figure it out myself hard way. That's a lot of ego. Right? And we ended up trapping ourselves in I gotta do it the hard way. Because we're not open... (Lesley: Yeah. Yeah) to other people's wisdom. 

Jay Twining 31:27  

It's so there was certainly that it's, we call it the in the industry, we call the not invented here syndrome... (Brad: not invented here) not invented here. Like let's reinvent the wheel, maybe. Or we can save time by learning from something else or some other system or getting the research. But so then again, like, so I was having these lessons. And then so fatherhood, right I was like, Oh, well why can I learn from other fathers? And so right around also all this time so like I'm figuring out career stuff. And what I'm just kind of noticing as well like as I'm reading and finding things is that there aren't really many places for fathers because at that time so four or five years ago we started to see the boss mama and the you know the crush it I think the big thing was like the helicopter parent, there was a supermom on the cover of Time. Yep, there was all this other kind of stuff. 

Lesley Logan 32:23  

Now there's like all those are parents but none of these are any parent anybody actually wants to be like nobody. Can you imagine like actually being supermom, like, that sounds like a lot of work sounds like a lot of running and speeding and changing of clothes, and handling and controlling everything as opposed to like, because like a superhero is alone. It's not like the Avengers moms, you know. So anyways, I'm just this is what I'm thinking about. And then the helicopter parents, it's exhausting.

Jay Twining 32:51  

One of my you said something that I think is really important and critical to why Feel Good Fatherhood exists. It's that I learned from a game developer that I really, really loved. And when he was talking about and working on Star Wars, The Old Republic, it's one of the only star wars of the most it's out there. And he said, it's totally fine for you to be alone. We love Batman's. We love the lone people. It's not okay for you to feel lonely. So Feel Good Fatherhood exists, because it's totally fine for you, as a parent or a father to be alone. It is not okay for you to be lonely. So those conversations part of it is and I really believe this today about leaving leading from the front. And so I don't have I don't have that self awareness or anything like that going on. So I'm like, let's just talk about fatherhood. Like, I don't, you know, I try it. I don't have this whole like, there's sometimes I have like star power where like, oh, like, I really want to do something good. I want to have a really great interview with a person. But most the time, if we're all fathers, like that's something that bring it bridges the gap for us. That's something that pull like it pulls us together, we have a shared common experience. And what I think is missing in our modern context, not just for fathers, but for everybody is that we don't lean on each other enough. And the other way to say that is that we're not open to be leaned on by other people enough. So I want to have the feelgood fatherhood conversation to show other fathers, they can have conversations about fatherhood. I want to have this conversation so that people that are interested in fathers and fatherhood can listen to see what other fathers are talking about and what their pressures are and what they're doing. And finally, I really just want to provide I try and keep my personality the same and the questions the same because if all you've got in your life is a capability of asking five different questions, with the right five questions, you can build a relationship with anybody, why not?

Lesley Logan 35:02  

So you're, you're making me think of our recent guests we had, the fitness guys. He also brought in Star Wars as an example. So we'll have to connect you guys. For sure they were they're very similar. It's like, when you when, like it makes me think of like, for moms, we have done so much to support that we need to do more. So please don't throw anything at me ladies I get we got to do more. But a lot of there's a lot of like text chains groups, like a mom can literally like text 500 people and go What's this? And get but like, either it either I'm not aware of it, because it's not in my world. And none of my friends are fathers, I'm friends with the moms or it's just really not something that is actually been created where it's like, I have not, I don't we saw our friends who just had a kid. Did we ask Chris how he's doing? No, I think we were like, Laura, how are you doing? Do you have help? Like, I don't think, we were worried about Chris? I hope you're good. They think that thing is that this is a very needed.

Brad Crowell 36:03  

Yeah. It's like a societal assumption.

Jay Twining 36:05  

It's there. It's so funny, because the pressures on men today are what are some of the pressures, the stoic man is not appreciated? So the and what is the stoic man mean? And where do we see that we see the stoic man and TV shows or movies, these are our heroes. So these are the people that accept the wall. These are the men that accept what's happening, and just keep going. That's, that's the hero idea. Like, oh, that kind of happened. All right, let's missions ahead, keep going. Right? And we see this a lot in our context of like military movies, you know, like Black Hawk Down is, I don't know, I think I have some context around why I like some of these military movies mostly just reminds me of how grateful I am that I wasn't a soldier, and that I live in a very safe world. It reminds me of that context, but from the stoic man, like that idea is kind of being diminished in the role of Hollywood, and maybe that's kind of changed, especially since if we think about the Marvel context. You know, Tony Stark, right, Tony Stark, Captain America have this, like, look, we just got to pursue the thing, like, we're gonna go solve the problem and pursue the thing. And, and that's kind of being made fun of. But what's really crazy about this, in the cultural context is that ladies, if you'll allow me this, tell me, you wanted your man to freak out every time something happened. Tell me the last time you wanted your man to freak out when something happens, to have an over exuberance of emotion when things happen constantly, that emotional self control is something that is attractive in us and something that's expected of us as men, and fathers in particular. So and that doesn't mean 100%. And it's not saying turn off the emotion. In fact, part of Feel Good Fatherhood is really being in touch with what's happening on the inside, knowing that you have an emotion and knowing how to handle that. But the other side as well is kind of knowing and learning in a social context. When is it appropriate for me to face and open up and share my problem, my vulnerability? And then when is it not appropriate? Let's suppose it you're on the side of the road, right? And your tires are blown out. Like, who's going to pull over if the dude is in a, an angry fit? Right? Like, let's suppose he's in an angry fit, because he's mad because the tires blew up. Nobody's gonna pull over. 

Brad Crowell 38:50  

And he's like kicking the side of the tires... (Jay: kicking the side of tires) like bam bam!

Jay Twining 38:55  

That craziness. Even then the cops the cops that show up the police officers that show up that are trying to help they're gonna be like, dude, calm down. Right, then he's gonna end up becoming a threat... (Brad: Yeah) so in the in the conversation of our lives, and why am I why am I focusing on anger? Because anger for men is a fuel source, and it is one of our default emotions. It's one of our few accepted emotions, okay? Go we are on a crazy track. But what's really important is that for men that we understand how to how to communicate what's going on inside, and that we're also in tune with what's happening inside. So none of none of please take nothing of what I said as the emotions don't happen. I have crazy emotions constantly in my life. Like it just it just kind of happens. But it's not always appropriate for me to express them super exuberantly. Like number one, I'm not an actor, so I don't get paid to do that. There's that piece but number two, it's not always meaningful. Like it's not always it's not always going to meaningfully add to the situation and it's not expected subconsciously of me. And then finally...

Brad Crowell 40:01  

I'm pretty sure that my computer fixes itself every time I yell at it. So, you know, I don't actually know what you're talking about.

Lesley Logan 40:08  

This is why we have separate offices, everyone, there's a reason.

Brad Crowell 40:13  

It just magically works. 

Jay Twining 40:14  

The other side of it too comes from in a lot of so in video games, I was in kind of a male dominated world. And there's a certain context where it's allowed and not that doesn't translate everywhere. So, Simon Sinek, loves telling the story about how he was on I think he was in Afghanistan, he was on base. And he was really surprised that the soldiers were allowed and given space when they had an emotional situation. So when we're talking about stoic guy, we're on mission, we have to kind of do the thing. We have those people in real life. Right? There are police officers, firemen, fire women, police women, etc, etc, etc. All the way up to frontline hospital, hospital workers, right? In that context, what I learned from Simon Sinek was that he was walking the base from a mission and a soldier just broke down. And he was allowed the space to experience the emotion... (Lesley: That's amazing actually), let's let's suppose that you're a young boy, in elementary school, and you have any emotional outbursts? What's the first thing the teacher does?... (Brad: They'll yell at you) yell at you, discipline you, stop it, be quiet and sit down... (Brad: Yeah) Okay, so that's that piece. All right? So now we're in a professional context. Has anybody or any of the listeners you ever had a angry boss or a sad boss?

Lesley Logan 41:48  

 Oh, I haven't, no, I've always had like, they were lovely people, or they were horrible people that you did not want have your emotions around.

Jay Twining 41:56  

Right? So and this is just this world, right? This is just this world where when, when kind of like when guys revalue and other guys, depending on your emotional maturity. That's the key point here. As an individual, depending on your emotional maturity, you're in tune with your own emotions and your ability to perceive and react or have empathy is the other word, empathy for other people. That's going to determine how well you are willing to accept an emotional outburst. So let's bring it back. Right? let's bring it back into fatherhood. So I had to learn this. Because what I know is that most young fathers haven't figured out anger yet. There's a lot of anecdotal stories.

Brad Crowell 42:41  

I couldn't even imagine being in my early 20s. Like, I don't know, it took me multiple relationships, to identify that anger was actually a big problem in my in my, you know, yeah, in me.

Lesley Logan 42:57  

I think and like, gosh, we'll have to just have this conversation with bringing more people on this whole thing, because what I'm also like, of course, I'm expert, like my own experience. I actually think that like, for women, you're not gonna have emotions at work, right? For men, you're not gonna have emotions outside of where you should have any emotions. So in fact, in society, we're actually not teaching anyone how to go have an emotional moment. Until it sounds like they're in the military. They just bombed a bunch of people. So it just sounds like we're waiting till it so fucking extreme that we have to have a moment so... Oh my gosh, I think, I think it's really amazing what you're doing and we'll have to talk more but obviously people can can work with you on this, especially our listeners, you will have men in your life that that made this may absolutely place we're gonna take a quick break, and we're going to find out where people can work with Feel Good Fatherhood. Alright, Jay, where can people find you follow you work with you?

Jay Twining 43:50  

Got it. My channels on YouTube right now. So it's youtube.com/atfeelgoodfatherhood. And there'll be a bunch of you'll know it's the channel because there's a nice blue brick background. In addition to really liking to French Fine Arts. I am a sucker for a turn of the century jazz and a Humphrey Bogart movies Casablanca. I used to do Lindy Hop and Bell bow so swing dancing. That's how I met my wife. And so I've got this whole jazz and music background. I know Brad You and I are going to talk about this at some point. So that's the channel. That's where that's the easiest way and then if you want to engage in a conversation with me this the next best place is LinkedIn. Shoot me a DM let me know how you found me and I'd love to just talk with you and see if there's any way I can support you or maybe the other way around. Who knows?

Brad Crowell 44:43  

You also got your pod right?

Jay Twining 44:45  

Yeah, that's where the pod is, Feel Good Fatherhood is right there at YouTube. Yeah, that's where you can find tha, that will be out soon. Maybe but maybe by the airing of this episode. I have some some SEO work to make the to make it on all other podcasts platforms. 

Lesley Logan 45:00  

I love it. This is awesome. Well, before we let you go, real quick, bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to Be It Till They See It. What do you have for us?

Jay Twining 45:09  

Got it! All right. So three core steps, three core steps to b2c, it will use the conversation of the video game thing. So I had no video game experience. What did I do? Success leaves clues. I did a whole bunch of research. I did, I read books on it. I found blogs, I found ways of being. An old mentor of mine, Charles Ms. Rocky, he said, If you want to be an investor, you have to do things that investors do. Instead, what do investors do? They read financial reports every single day. That's what Warren Buffett does. So he said, If you want to do a thing, do the work every day. So the first step is the research. The next step is that research by itself and knowledge isn't very valuable. You have to apply and practice. So if you want it like for instance, if you want to do investing, there's you can do historical trades, you can go you can find a way to go to historical trades to practice what you've been learning. If you want to make games, you go and make games, like there's so many tools out there today to do it. It's it's relatively straightforward. And then finally, and this is the most critical part is it while you're practicing and while you're doing it while you're doing anything, evaluate if you still like it.

Brad Crowell 46:24  

That is amazing.

Lesley Logan 46:28  

Oh my gosh, that one, rewind everyone, listen to that one again. It's so so important... (Brad: Yeah) Jay, you are a phenomenal person. Your journey is incredible. I think so many of us can learn from it and also any of the moms who are worried about their kid playing video games. It is not like being lazy, not taking life they're learning how computers work and they're learning different skills along the way. So you know you can monitor screen time I'm okay with that. But they're not going anywhere nor computer so I think they need to engage with them in some way. How are you gonna use these tips in your life? Let us know tag J, tag the Be It pod, let it, tell us how, what was the most important point to you, what resonate with you the most and until next time, Be It Till You See It!

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 47:07  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 47:07  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 47:07  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 47:07  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 47:07  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Discover Lesley's inspiring journey as she and Brad achieved their goal, and turned their dream house into a reality. Join Lesley as she shares valuable insights and actionable advice on conquering perfectionism and manifesting your aspirations.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How having a strong family goal can motivate you to work harder and achieve your goals. 
• Overcoming fear of failure, perfectionism, and imposter syndrome.
• How Lesley and Brad redefined their goals in order to achieve their dream house. 
• How to get specific on what you want and why you want it.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan: [00:00:00] It's Fuck Yeah friday.

Brad Crowell: Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right. Fuck Yeah Friday. Hi babes. How are you? How's it going? Okay, so this is actually my first recording back since we got back from Korea. And I haven't been able to share a win with you [00:01:00] that happened a couple weeks ago. So, I'm gonna share one of the most amazing wins of Brad and I's entire life with you in just a moment.

But first, of course, as always, I share your wins. So if you have a win you want me to announce, I wanna share it, it's so fun. And it also is like the best way to start your weekend, don't you think? So, like Fuck Yeah Friday is actually something that a friend of mine taught us all when I was under my first mastermind years ago.

And I was like, yeah, FYF. And I've been doing it ever since, like, I think it's like 2018. And it's a thing we do in AGENCY and it's a thing that we do in OPC and it's a thing we do in eLevate. It's a thing we do in my household and it's hopefully a thing that you're doing because of this podcast and I truly would love to know.

So, you know, let me know by sending your wins in. So first win, let me pull this up. We had a couple wins from you guys I wanna share, because actually while I was gone, there's just like a ton of wins that came through. So I'm gonna, I'm going to catch up on a lot of 'em. So the first one is from, we call her UK Claire, Claire Sparrow.

This is the [00:02:00] woman, oh gosh, I've known her for years now. She's an agency for a long time and we actually are gonna be at her place in Leads this summer. So I cannot wait to see her in real life. You've also heard her on the podcast, so this is actually someone you've heard before and she's one of our favorite episodes you've all listened to. So, UK Claire, here she is. I've been working. I've been looking forward to sharing this week's win. It's been a corker. It must be a British thing. When I joined AGENCY in August, 2019, we had a dream as a family to own our own cottage in Scotland. With all that I have learned, I was able to take it from a dream to a goal and build the steps in the business that not only fulfilled my mission to help more women with chronic pelvic floor dysfunction, but also earned enough income to make a deposit for our dream cottage.

What I realized is that the big win is having a really strong family goal, made me push harder for my business goals, so I actually help way more women than I could have ever imagined. Today, my husband is eight hours from our leads home collecting the keys to our cottage in (...) [00:03:00] Northeast Scotland.

Forgive my pronunciation. There are no words for how happy I am and how fueled I am to push further and set bigger goals. That said, I had a goal to write a book after a client said to me last year, you have a voice of hope. You are the voice of hope. She shared how it was my positivity and outlook that helped give the optimism that women can take charge of their pelvic health and that there is a non-surgical solution to prolapse.

Confirmed when I did a kickass promotion with existing clients, refer a friend, and out of almost 400 women, one referred their mom. This was so sad because whilst women talk nonstop in my group, they don't talk out with outside the group. It reinforced the need to get a book out there. And to reach more women.

So this week I completed the 45,000 word manuscript of my book ready for the Editor to start on Monday. I can't believe it. As a dyslexic, I lack so much confidence in my written work and my need to get the message out was a way stronger. So I have felt all the feels there have been a lot. [00:04:00] She's felt all the feels and there have been a lot. I was invited by Brent Anderson to speak on Pilates Hour podcast in July, which just so happens to be when the book launches, which is great timing. I taught a class for international brand Neom that has just gone live on their Facebook wellbeing group.

And asked for help. My goal for the year, my team stepped up without hesitation this week to cover my classes and clients to give me space I need to work on my book and deal with a sudden family illness. My middle son got the cast off his arm and it is healed well. So that is like 17 wins. But I just wanna like highlight a couple things really quickly.

She had a family goal she was so specific on, it made her work harder in her own business goals, which helps her help more women with their pelvic floor dysfunction, which helped her find women that told her you should write a book. And then she wrote a book and now she's helping even more women with her mission that she's doing on this earth , and because she has seen her goals, her vision, her mission become reality. She's now even more motivated. So you all, it is so important to have these [00:05:00] goals, and I'll talk about that more in my win. But let me go onto another win because if you're like, what is all that? I don't know, that doesn't relate to me, which I hope it does because my gosh, Claire, way to fucking go.

You're phenomenal. And I love your family so much and I cannot wait to hang out with you in July when your book is launching so we can celebrate in real life. Bianca, who's from Canada, Also an AGENCY member. She had two clients buy packages this week, you guys, this was right after our coaching call where she was like, I think I might need to get a part-time job.

And I was like, well, what are the things that we're doing? Here's the things you could be doing instead. So she booked two, two clients, bought packages this week. She had a client buy an intro session for next month. So I was like in advance. And now she's in touch with a physiotherapist for competitive athlete, LA athletic client.

And it sounds like she wants to come with a long-term plan, incorporating Pilates into her routine. She's fucking put herself out there. Way to go, Bianca. It's not done. She's got more wins. She attended a local women's networking event last night and connect with a few women who wanted her business card.

That's humongous. And she's going to Niagara Falls to celebrate her wedding [00:06:00] anniversary with her Hu husband. So love the business, love the personal wins, and also way to put yourself out there, Bianca. I know it's so hard, you guys, it's so hard for your business to grow. Like there's ebbs and flows, ebbs and flows, and sometimes it's like, why am I even doing this anymore?

And it's like, get out there again and try again. And. Boom, look what happened. Alright, one more win for you all before mine. So this is Lisa McDonald's. Here it is. Hi Wins. I became C P T certified today and I'm celebrating. It's been a goal of mine since I finished my comprehensive certification with Balanced Body in 2020.

It took me so long to sign up and take it. Why? Because of fear failure, perfectionism, and imposter syndrome. Once I took the leap and, and signed up for it, I assumed I would pass given all the awesome education, Balanced Body, comprehensive and eLevate program gave me, and of course, practice personal with some of you and with clients.

Glad I took the leap and did it. I didn't get a hundred percent, which kind of upset me. Got to keep working on the perfectionism thing. Old habits are hard to break, so an effort to break the habit [00:07:00] and able to call myself recovering perfectionist. I'm sharing the information with you today, as well as writing so hard.

Here's a pass, an exam. Accepting less than perfect. Two wins because perfect is boring, right? Yes, it is boring, Lisa. And also like, who needs a hundred percent on it? No one cares. No one cares. I hate to break this up, all of you, but like, yes, being an N C P T certified instructor is amazing because it does mean that you actually are truly a certified instructor.

You took a third party exam, but no one actually cares what your score was. No one's gonna ever ask you. No one has ever asked me to see my certificates in general. But, so I understand as a recovering perfectionist as well, why you wanted to feel that way. I definitely did not get a hundred percent myself either.

And so wouldn't you believe it doesn't really matter. But I love that you took the test. I love that you felt the feelings and I love that you are using this experience as a way to like recover from being perfect because it is boring and you're not boring, Lisa. So thank you to all of these members, eLevate an AGENCY for sharing [00:08:00] these wins with everybody so I could share them with our listeners. Alright now. Let me tell you my wins. So my win, it's a big one. And you, you may have already seen it because I did post this early because it happened in between me being able to record and going to Korea.

So back in 2020, Brad and I well, we had this opportunity when our entire life, like many peoples was canceled, like our entire schedule was canceled. So a lot of people, you know, they had to work from home instead of going into the office, but like, our entire year was canceled. So all of the countries that we had workshops in, contracts in, all of the retreats after March, we did that one.

My studio shut down, which my goals for the year was like, it was in... In March, I knew I was going to give half of my clientele away to my renters and just keep a few of my people. But the fact that I didn't actually get to say goodbye or didn't get to tell them that in person was a little rough.

And at any rate, you know, I [00:09:00] know that you're listening to this and you had an interesting 2020 as well, so I know you get this. So in April of 2020, we like sat down and like redefined our goals for our future with this like, new, interesting way of doing things. And we wrote down what we wanted our dream home to be in Las Vegas.

We knew how many rooms we wanted. We knew what kind of house we wanted it to be. We knew what each room was gonna do. We did all these things that we like truly like got down and dirty with how much it would cost, how much we could spend, how much we could afford, everything. Right? And we did this with one of my past guests, Kareen Walsh here on the podcast.

And then in May, we actually had enough money to make that happen. At least make a deposit, a down payment on a house happen. But we actually didn't have, we didn't have like the history that banks wanna loan money to because we worked for ourselves. No bank wants to get a mortgage to people who work for themselves.

And we were for ourselves in the state of California, which means we like [00:10:00] definitely wrote as much off as we could because we truly wanted to hire a team. And so that meant we had to spend a lot of money investing on our team and not in ourselves. So we were not ideal candidates for buying a house.

So because of amazing people in this world, we had connected with someone who helps entrepreneurs get into houses. And he does that by doing contracts to deeds or like basically like a rent to own and, sure enough I wanted to move into our house on June 1st, 2020. Like, that was like my deadline. I was like, June 1st, we must move by June 1st.

And so we did. We actually found a house nine days before June 1st. And saw it in real life. We drove out. We found it was like exactly like, it was amazing. And by June 1st we were moving in and that was amazing. But we had three years to get a mortgage. We had three years to qualify for a mortgage.

And that can sound easy if one of your people in your relationship is a W two. And while we both have W two s, cause we're both employees of our own business, we still run our own business. [00:11:00] And so therefore, still not ideal candidates. And then also like, you know, we're elder millennials, we had student loans, we had debt, we like hello, trying to like survive, you know, nine 11 and recessions and all of that stuff.

And so there's a lot that we had to overcome in a very short period of time. And we had an amazing team that we had helping us make every single decision there ever could be around how you spend your money. We had somebody telling us like, like we made sure we evaluated everything. We bought a van, we did this, we got a loan for the business, we did this.

We did everything in a way to make sure that we could get a mortgage by the time we needed to. 18 months ago, we started the process of trying to get a mortgage and multiple mortgage brokers, like literally didn't return our calls. I'm talking multiple and we just kept going cause I was like, we can pay.

We are paying for this cost for now. Like we can't do it. We are being it till we see it. I am not fucking letting this house go. You don't get to manifest something and then live in it and [00:12:00] then it gets taken away. Like I was like, we were not gonna let this happen. So at any rate, we did find some mortgage broker who believed he could help us and it took him 10 months.

I took our CPA multiple filings and we were able to, by the grace of actually like the FHA, the government changing what they would do, like there was a whole process that goes into it. So whenever you see anybody like making the goal happen, I want you to know like they're not lucky. They work their fucking ass off.

Okay. And I say that from a place of so much love. I say that from a place of like, just reminding you that you can have what you want. It is preparation and really, truly getting super clear on what you want and why you want it, and not giving up until it happened. So I want you to go back to uk Claire's, even her win.

Like that dream that she had, that wasn't luck that got her there. It was hard work of building a team, of [00:13:00] getting people to hear her message and staying on mission. It was, the truth is, is that we didn't just start working 18 months on this. We started working from June 1st, 2020, on getting this mortgage and it took us 18 months to get it.

And here, oh my gosh. Here's, okay, so here's the actual win. So we had Meridith's wedding to go to and we came home for 26 hours. We had to sign the mortgage on that day, on May 15th, we had to sign it because we're gonna be gone for what was supposed to be only 11 days, ended up being almost 13 days, and then there was a holiday weekend.

So like it would just, the contract would've expired by the time if we had waited any longer. And we, I mean, got ourselves by the last minute or the last client on the last possible day, we could sign this mortgage, sign this mortgage and the house that you have been seeing pictures of, the house that we live in, the house we talk about all the time, the cactuses that Brad talks about.

This house is our house. We're not renting this house. There's no deadline anymore. Like we got this house and I'm so [00:14:00] proud of Brad and I, but I'm also so grateful for the massive, amazing team and the effort we put in. I share this one with you because if you can get super specific on what you want and why you want it, I promise you, there's no stopping you.

I promise you, there's no stopping you. I promise you won't let anything get in the way. You will move heaven and earth to make that happen. And I share this one with you because I do hope that you do that. I want you to experience moving heaven and earth to have the win that you wanna have to have, the thing that you wanna have to have, the life that you wanna have, cuz you deserve it and you're amazing.

Thank you so much for letting me share this FYF with you today. It's a little bit longer one, I apologize, but I needed to share it with you because, because that's like this entire house was being it till we see it, the whole last three years was literally being it till we see it to live in this house.

So being until you see it works, thank you so much and until next time, you need to Be It Till You See It. Have a good day. 

That's all I [00:15:00] got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Be It Till You See it is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad 

Crowell.

Lesley Logan: It is produced and edited by the Epic team at Disenyo 

Brad Crowell: Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.[00:16:00] 

In this episode, Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell recap Lesley's interview with Shay Kostabi, sharing their takeaways and discussing the concept of finding your superpower. Explore the transformative exercise of creating a Venn diagram to align your values, skills, and interests, while also emphasizing the significance of building an A-team.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Pilates offers low impact benefits for women in their 40s.
• The Importance of Consistency for accountability. 
• The SCARF Method for building lasting relationships.
• Creating your persona to shift into the best version of yourself. 
• Using the Venn Diagram to help you find your superpower. 
• How to rock your superpower with the help of your A-Team.

Episode References/Links:

• June 21st Profitable Pilates webinar
• July Leeds UK Mullet tour
• August US Summer West Coast Tour at OPC.ME/TOUR
• September Poland sign up

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 19:04  

Well, also because like, I'm authentically me all the time. But that doesn't mean that if I were to bring my like nighttime self to teach a class, I think no one would come again. Because be like, Alright, guys, I'm gonna put my podcast on. Don't talk to me, You know what I mean? Like, that would be authentically me. But that's not that's not me owning my core values of being alone my mission in the time that I'm serving the people that I'm with, you know, so I agree. Like, I like what you how you put that there.

Brad Crowell 19:35  

All right. So one thing that I really loved that she said is that persona is not a character. It's not a mask that you put on, you're not you're not faking it till you make it, right? You're the idea of being until you see it is that your persona is something that is a refined and intentional version of yourself, right? So your best self, and that is being until you see it, right? And she believes that we are all given talent in this world. And it's, you know, it's a God given gift for people who operate on intuition. And the instinct is powerful, but it's also primal and dangerous. Because instinct is inconsistent.

Lesley Logan 22:21  

It's like motivation, like it shows up, like for the party, but then it goes away. Whereas as instinct can, like, show up, and it can be great. And like, like a split second, you got to make a decision. But also, you can react terribly, and then like, make decisions that have fear or teach things out of fear or whatever. 

Brad Crowell 22:39  

Yeah, or, and I think if I remember her conversation correctly, it was she was talking about people who set up businesses versus people who run businesses, your instinct helps you set up the business, but you might not have that same instinct when it comes to running and growing the business. And so therefore, it's inconsistent.

Lesley Logan 22:58  

Thank God for you, I'm so good at setting up a business, I'm not good at running it.

Brad Crowell 23:04  

I'm still working that out too! 

Lesley Logan 23:06  

Thank God for you. 

Brad Crowell 23:07  

So she said she started talking about using tools and showing up with intention, says, you know, creating a systematic approach, you know, and then she believes that sometimes creating your own persona, like a character, like Clark Kent and Superman ,it's a helpful vision, right? for you to decide who your best self is going to be. And then she said, Don't forget, you are allowed to change, you are allowed to evolve. You are allowed to abandon a persona that you no longer see yourself as, I think, like, for example, for me with this would be when I was younger, I saw myself as a musician. And I defined myself as musician, musician, it was actually my worldview was everything I did was like, how is this going to benefit my music career and everything like that. And over time, I came to this conclusion that I am a musician, but it's not the end all game for me. It's something that I am but it's not my, my entire. It's not who I am in every aspect of my day in my life. And it took me a long time to be okay with deciding I'm actually a businessman. Right? And that was weird. That shift for me was weird. But, you know, once I let go of it, it was actually relieving. I was like, Okay, this is okay. It's gonna be okay, Anyway, I mean, you know, being until you see it a lot, you know, like the idea of putting on, you know, like, shifting into the best person of yourself like Superman from Clark Kent. You know, that's a helpful tool that we can use to shift into these different modes. As we're moving forward. 

Alright, fine. Let's talk about that Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Shay Kostabi? 

Lesley Logan 25:25  

You're gonna go first. 

Brad Crowell 25:26  

Okay, I'm gonna go first. She said, make a Venn diagram. Right? And I thought this was interesting. And if you, you should go back and listen to this, because I'm not going to explain. Well, hell, let's just get into it. Three overlapping circles, right, you got the middle is like that weird, not quite triangle situation happening.

Lesley Logan 25:43  

Oh, she's doing three. So it's like, it's not

Brad Crowell 25:47  

The middle will have like a, it's like a diamond almost. But it's not a diamond. Yeah. So you know, in circle number one, you're gonna write your core values. These are the non negotiable things that matter to you, things that give your life meaning, purpose and direction. Circle number two, you got to write your abilities and skills, those that you are gifted with by nature and or nurture, some you've acquired along the way. Right? So core values, your abilities and skills. And your third is write down your interests, you know? things that you're actually drawn to, the things that you love to do. Best way to do this is to look at your bank account and your calendar was a tip from her. So core values, your abilities and skills, and then you've got your interests and then that's that center, a diamond

Lesley Logan 26:33  

Working out, shopping, coffee.

Brad Crowell 26:35  

That center diamond, she said, this is actually that's gonna be blank until you can look at these three things and make a connection of where the overlap actually is. And that diamond in the middle is going to be your superpower. So you know, this is the gift that you bring to the world and what you're doing, you're doing a disservice to yourself and everyone around you, if you're not showing up and using your superpower every single day. 

Lesley Logan 27:04  

I couldn't agree more, live in that little diamond, be at the diamond. 

Brad Crowell 27:09  

Yeah, yeah. In fact, I think we should do this. 

Lesley Logan 27:11  

Beyonce told us to shine bright like a diamond.

Brad Crowell 27:14  

Yeah, she did. Yeah, you and I should do this. And we'll come back on one of the future pods and we'll share our superpower. 

Lesley Logan 27:21  

Okay, you should write that down. Because we're gonna forget. Meridith task us with that. Okay, my biggest takeaway, she said, build your A team to help you. So you guys, we talk about this all the time. Like one of the questions I get all the time is like, how do you do it all? I don't, I have an A team. So you may not know this already. And if you're like, listen to all that Venn diagram stuff, and you're like, Ah, I got my interest. What about the other stuff? Ask your friends. Ask them to tell you like how do they perceive you? What do they think your skill sets are, where they find you like the strongest, and that can help you but also, when you figure out what those things are asking how that resonates. And really, truly, like, get some perspective on that. No, make sure you ask like the people, don't ask your mom. Hi, Mom, love you. But like, ask the people who like you feel like you show up as your true self and not like as a daughter of somebody else. Unless your mom is your best friend like it can happen, right? So when you do these things, you can get your purpose, you can get your direction, your mission. And she also brought up like when you work in your zone of genius, it really does help you show up in the best way, and be your best self at the table every single day like imagine every single day being your best self. And then what you will need to do is you'll find allies who complement your superpowers. So for example, my bestie across the table for me is Brad, we have some things that overlap really well. Obviously, we're great dressers, and we like take on a lot of stuff, we love to travel this world. But there are things that he does, he can only do in his way. And there are things I do in only my way. And we let each other rock those superpowers. So when you're finding people who can make your A team and maybe it's just like an assistant for five hours week, make sure that person understands your vision, your mission, your core values, but their strengths are different than yours. And so therefore you actually become a team. And if you look at like I've never watched all of the Marvel movies, for sure. But I've watched a couple of Fast and Furious so I'm going to go there. If you look at the people who drive the cars and the Fast and Furious they all have different skill sets, like some of them like that one girl, the British girl she's like super good with like coding and tech and all this stuff. And then there's like, other people are really good with like these kinds of cars or these bombs or these things and so like they don't like, alone, they're terrible. They like get in trouble. They get stuck. They're like hanging off a cliff. I don't know how they do that. And then together they're like this amazing A team so so sorry for the superpower Marvel people. I don't watch those movies. But I know that one

Brad Crowell 29:41  

Fast and Furious is not Marvel but we will go with it.

Lesley Logan 29:43  

I know. But I didn't say that. I don't know Marvel. Yeah, I only know who Logan is...(Brad: Oh, you're good.) Is he a marvel? I don't think so. No, he's Wolverine. I've shown him to a superhero movie and I was like, when does Logan show up? He's the only character I know. They're like wrong, like wrong. Wrong category of movies. 

Brad Crowell 30:04  

Oh, it is. X-Men is Marvel so Wolverine is Marvel. 

Lesley Logan 30:08  

Oh, so what is the other one? 

DC, Marvel or DC. 

Jesus Christ, too many Okay, well anyways, you know what clearly not my zone of genius my husband's and so I have him to help me find the movies. Get your A team together you guys, Shay is a woman to re listen to. I found that this podcast is like, it could be of a workshop, it could have been a whole series and she's an incredible coach at what she does. So make sure you check out the links about her, her Instagram, all that stuff, tag Shay, tag the Be It pod with what your favorite takeaways were. And also like, know that it's a work in progress. Like when it comes to your superpowers, when it comes to your uniqueness, when it comes to your mission, it kind of gets better and better over time as you get better and better at being yourself and being until you see it. And so I'm Lesley Logan,

Brad Crowell 30:52  

I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 30:53  

How are you going to use these tips in your life? I want to know. First of all, do me a humongous favor. Share this with a friend. Because that's how this podcast gets out. We are about to hit two years, I would truly love to have the most amazing number of downloads we've ever had by the time we hit two years and I can only do that with you, can't do that on my own. It's impossible. You're part of my A team. And you can do that by texting people, sharing it with people, like showing it to them, putting your earbuds in their ear. And you know, I mean, I don't know, people don't like that, maybe give them their own earbud, but you know, do the thing. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 31:28  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 31:29  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 31:29  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 31:29  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 31:29  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 31:29  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 31:29  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this insightful episode, Shay unravels the importance of consistency and persona development, and brand building. She delves into the concept of flow states, showcasing its essential role in crafting immersive experiences, and unfolds the power of recognizing one’s superpower. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why consistency is as important as authenticity.
• How to utilize your public persona and personal identity.
• The Neuroscience of flow states for client retention.
• How to build a safe community and good experience.
• Aspirational identity and importance of niching down.
• How to find your superpower to unlock your potential. 

Episode References/Links:

• Fitness Career Mastery
• Fitness Career Mastery Podcast
• Instagram: @fitnesscareermastery
• Conservatory Training: @theGroupx_conservatory

Guest Bio:

I am a fitness business coach with expertise in talent development, program design and member experience. A creator, educator, and consultant. 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Waitlist for the flashcards deck

Use this link to get your Toe Sox!

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Shay Kostabi: [00:00:00] What you present to the world needs to be specific and consistent. I've been saying this a lot lately. Authenticity is overrated, particularly when it comes to business and being a, a public figure, a speaker, a teacher, a presenter, somebody that's in front of people. Your clients aren't paying for your authenticity.

They wanna know that you're authentic. They're paying for your consistency.

Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It [00:01:00] Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 

Oh my goodness. Get ready, get ready. This, um, this interview is just going to have so many amazing pieces of advice no matter who you are, what you do, you're going to love this. If you are a fitness instructor, you'll absolutely dive into this. If you are not, but you are someone who's wanting to work for yourself, works for yourself, or is trying to show up in a room that you have imposter in Iran, there is good stuff in here for you.

And so my guest today is she Kaabi. I was on her podcast, fitness Career Mastery. Um, she and her husband have an incredible program that they work with, um, fitness instructor, studio owners, and, and you'll hear all about it in this episode, but I met them through a mutual friend who tagged us in a post and then we stalked each other and we love the same blue blockers and we got to know each other.

And I was on their podcast. She's now finally on my podcast. And, um, this will be the first of many amazing conversations. I hope you leave this as inspired and lit up as I am. And so after this [00:02:00] little ado, here's Shay Kastabi.

.

And stick around to the very end because we got some outtakes that's been happening. There's always outtakes. Um, and the team does collect them for bloopers on the YouTube, but uh, we're adding them into the end of the pod because you know what you need to know that we are not perfect. You're not perfect, and we're enjoying the process and we are enjoying that.

So have a good laugh on our behalf. Love you.

Right. Be it babes. I am super excited to have our guest today. I'm gonna be really honest. You already know I'm a fast talker when Shay and I are in the room, you may wanna just put this on a normal speed. Because we're gonna get ready to laugh. You're gonna learn a lot. Shay Kostabi is our guest today and I am just so thrilled to have this bright shining light in your ears.

Shay can you tell everyone who you are and what you're rocking at. I'm 

Shay Kostabi: dying. Um, I'll give you my labels. Is that, that's like the easiest way to introduce, um, who I am. I mean I, uh, I am a creator. I'm a mentor, I'm a teacher. I am an [00:03:00] experience designer. I'm a brand builder. I'm an idea generator. Um, I'm a fitness business coach.

My husband and I have a business called Fitness Career Mastery Podcast of the same name, which is currently on pause. But there's something like 200 episodes for you to listen to if you're interested. Um, Everything about how to create a successful heart led business in the fitness industry, and also how to create meaningful experiences that keep people there and, and really change people's lives.

And, um, I also do what you do. I travel to train instructors. I build programs for boutique studios, primarily in cycling bar and hit training. I've, you know, lived all over the world doing that. And we were just talking about your upcoming trip and I love getting paid to go to like an exotic location to work and like explore.

I love travel, adventure or culture 

Lesley Logan: all over the... I agree. I'm not saying that if you're in a non exotic place, I won't go. But I am saying that if it is an exotic place, you're more likely to get a [00:04:00] yes. 

Shay Kostabi: I I'll, I just got back from Indianapolis, which is like a super cool city, like 

Lesley Logan: in mind good things. I have heard good things.

I have not been there. Um, we've actually, in Indiana, we've spent many a days in Fort Wayne, which people are like, you know, Fort Wayne. We're like, yep. Actually we've, we've done us some, some stuff there. 

Shay Kostabi: We could swap stories. I've been there too. I love it. 

Lesley Logan: Well, okay, so what I love is how multifaceted you are, and I know our listeners, um, what I hope you all heard from that is sometimes I think people think, oh, I'm not just one thing or I have to be one thing, and it's like, actually you, you've, you're layered, you know, it's not like you started out doing all of these things, but you, you, you have, it's grown into these things and I'm wondering like, can we take a step back and just how did you get into like working for yourself?

Because I feel like that is always its own story and own 

Shay Kostabi: journey. Yeah. Ooh, okay. Keep it short. You know, I come from a family of artists and entrepreneurs, everybody around me was [00:05:00] running their own business in some way. My dad has always been, um, self-employed. Um, my uncles are famous artists and musicians.

My grandparents are immigrants who made their own way. And so, and I'm very proud of that. And I think I just had role models who are like, you don't have to subscribe to the status quo or the norm. You can be whatever you want to be and you can create it yourself. And it was almost expected that you would do that in a way.

Nobody pressured me to go to college. Nobody said I had to be a certain thing. Um, so 

Lesley Logan: That's so cool. I just wanna highlight that because I feel like. That is, I was the opposite. It was like getting to college. Cause that's the only way you're gonna get out, no one works for themselves in my family, like the one that did, they're like, he's kind of crazy out there.

He thinks he's got this 

Shay Kostabi: idea. I I, I'm from a family of crazies, so, you know, uh, so that feels good. And I, [00:06:00] I, I'm so grateful for that. Um, so I've kind of always wanted to do my own thing. And we talked about this on our podcast, you know, making jewelry or shoes or whatever it is. I've just been doing it since I was young.

I've also, like, one of my favorite things to play when I was little was teacher. So I would always invite my friends over and give them spelling tests. So these, these, these things that I list I've been doing since childhood and, and I, I think we're gonna talk about this day, it really comes from like knowing your superpowers.

Like knowing Yeah. At, at the core of who you are and what your interests are and what your skills are, and then going out and finding new skills and abilities. But I fell into fitness is like my fourth career. Yeah. And I was working for a corporate business and also doing some things on the side like product development and programming and some other stuff kind of under the table.

And that, that was really starting to pique my [00:07:00] interest and I really don't fit into corporate atmosphere. I am such a rebel. 

Lesley Logan: Oh my gosh. I didn't think I was a rebel, but I was, I was asked to, to, to 

Shay Kostabi: quit. I really have a difficult time following rules that don't make sense. I love rules. A and I'm really good at making them for other people.

Yeah. But they really have to make sense. And I have so many crazy ideas. I think there's a line in Alice Wonderland that's like sometimes I wake up with as many as a hundred new ideas before breakfast. Yeah. And I used to have that written, I'm like that's me. Yeah. And that's annoying. You work in a corporate infrastructure, like, we should be doing this.

And they're like, shut up and teach your class. You know, 

Lesley Logan: they're like, it's like, and they'll, they'll do it next year and that's fine for them, but like, you're like, I wanna do that. I'm beyond that idea now. Now I moved onto this one. 

Shay Kostabi: Um, yeah, I could tell you stories about of, you know, I saw a vision of like where the company should go.

Um, that actually has happened, is in the world now, [00:08:00] and is something that everybody knows. And I was like, we should do this. And they were like, no. And now the company's not in business anymore, so whatever. Um, you know, it's like, I wanna just make this stuff happen. So, yeah, I, um, I had like a big life change, honestly.

I had a divorce, I went through divorce, um, a bunch of other things. I, I was living in New York. I moved to California and I was like, I wanna start over. I just wanna do my own thing. And, um, I was teaching part-time at a studio, but I just started, I don't, I honestly, I don't remember people just started calling me.

Yeah. Like, can you help me build this program? Can you teach my instructors this? Um, when you just out there and you make yourself visible and, and you, and you're presenting your skills and your abilities, and people see who you are, they offer you things. You know, I, I got a sponsorship from New Balance that helped, like, I was one of seven female ambassadors and, you know, on a salary and traveling all over the country.

So I met a lot of people and that gave me the freedom to be like, well, what do I wanna create? 

Lesley Logan: But I think [00:09:00] that you just hit the nail on the head. Like you, I think a lot of people, one will say they don't know what their superpowers are, they don't know what their strengths are. They don't know these things. And I actually think that they've, they've been looking and comparing so much to so many people.

They've actually stopped look at the mirror and realizing what they do have. And they're afraid to actually be different. They're afraid to be the person with the ideas in the room that gets turned down. They're afraid that no one will listen to 'em. And as you and I just found out, like. We've had many ideas that we've had, and people are like, nope, nope, not doing that.

And, and yet the people in the room that are hearing you, they talk to people like, I can't. I, the, some of the opportunities I had in the fitness world in LA was not because of like, like I went pounding the pavements to like knock on that person's door. But it's because I would not shut up about the thing that I loved and was so passionate about.

Yeah. And someone told someone, I even heard someone tell someone about me in a woman's bathroom in LA which was hilarious. I was like, should I come out of the stall or should I just sit here while they're talking about me? [00:10:00] But they do, because people wanna help people and they'll say, I need someone like this.

Like, oh, I actually know someone. She might, yes, maybe she knows. Like, it's like that kind of a thing. But if people don't know who you are, what you do, how you rock at it, they can't, they can't put your name in the 

Shay Kostabi: hat, you know? Right. And the trick is truly like authenticity is, you need to be authentic.

You need to be real, you need to be true to you, to your spirit and, and what really resonates with you. It has to be real. But beyond that, it needs to be what you present to the world needs to be specific and consistent. I've been saying this a lot lately. Authenticity is overrated, particularly when it comes to business and being a public figure, a speaker, a teacher, a presenter, somebody that's in front of people.

Your clients are paying for your authenticity. They wanna know that you're authentic. They're paying for your consistency. They want to [00:11:00] know that, um, you're gonna be there for them, right? And that there's some accountability there and that they can bank on a certain number of things to help them get what they want.

And if you are unclear on things like your core values, your interests, your abilities, your skills your purpose, your mission, your superpowers. You know, human beings are so multifaceted. You can show up as like something different all the time. And you're like, this feels good today. And then people are like, wait, but I needed you to be this.

Yeah. Like, that's cool too, but I really needed you to be this. You know? Yeah. No, I 

Lesley Logan: think, uh, you know, I think that is, I think so many people, like I need, like, they do wanna focus. I'm so authentic. I'm so this, and it's like being consistent doesn't mean you're not authentic. It just means that people need to know that you, when you say you're gonna show up, you're gonna show up, that the class that you're gonna teach is, is what they expected from last week.

Yeah. Like, people actually [00:12:00] think you can change the music, but even that, you can't, they don't want country next week if they've been doing nineties hip hop. Like people, like there's something about that consistency that's what they're paying for because people need certainty. More than anything they need to know that like what they're paying you for is what they're gonna get week after week.

And it's so hard when you're a multifaceted cuz you feel like you can be boxed in, but there's still ways of being your authentic self. And showing up consistently. It's a, it's just, it's a, it's a practice. Yeah. 

Shay Kostabi: And whether you're a personal brand or a brand or you know, a product, you are a reflection of the consumer or the audience's identity.

Right. Like, I see myself in that. So, you know, when you walk into a Nike store, there are certain things that you expect if, if you walked in and Nike didn't look like Nike, you would be like, what happened? And there's a, almost like a loss of your own identity. Like, this is what I expected. The same thing when people come to your class, right.

They're expecting [00:13:00] we go to this, when we go to the movie theater, we have expectations about what the rituals are like and the expectations and the services and the atmosphere. When we go to a concert, you know, our favorite artists, we expect, you know, a certain level of quality that is consistent throughout time.

Lesley Logan: I love that you're bringing this up because I think like when I call up about being it till you see it, I am not talking about faking it till you make it. And that's a very different thing because I think people can misinterpret this like, oh, I need to be like this so that I attract people. But it's like, actually you said it.

People are attracted to you cuz they see something in you. So the more you can be the version of yourself, you're like on this planet to be, the more you're going to actually be able to be doing this, whatever this is forever. For as long as you want. Yeah. And authentically. And consistently. And, and you're not gonna have to wake up one day going, I don't know who I am, I wanna change course.

And [00:14:00] you, your people are like, uh, this isn't the, this isn't the story I wanted to be into. All those things, they're gonna feel like, Ugh, what just happened 

Shay Kostabi: here? Totally. Oh my gosh. Have you ever gone to a class where one day the teacher comes in and she's like, shaved her head or like done, or like has like a whole new persona and you're like, Are you okay?

Lesley Logan: Right, right. I I, um, well, like welcome to LA um, you know, it's a little distracting. You almost need them to address like, yeah, I donate my hair or something. Just so you can go, oh, they're still them, but if they're (...) , 

Shay Kostabi: yeah. Well, so you're allowed to change and evolve. Mm-hmm. And you're also allowed to just like abandon a persona that no longer serves you.

You know, um, this is so funny. We're moving into, this is something that I teach that I'm deeply passionate about. I, I'm actually teaching a masterclass tomorrow and persona development for fitness instructors. And, um, it stems from my personal experience, my background in [00:15:00] theater and playing characters, and also what I've just learned about, um, You know, being a public figure and stepping in, in front of people as yourself, not as a character.

Right. Yeah. And what it takes to like, play big in the arena that you're in. Yeah. And you know, a, a persona is a, um, like it's not a character. It's not a mask that you put on, it's not something, it's not that fake it until you make it. It's a, a version of your best self, your most refined and intentional self.

It's the version, it's, it's how you are perceived by other people. So that's really important and something that I think a lot of instructors in particular don't think about. It's not just, I want you to see this. You have to find that intersection between what you would like to transmit. And how that's actually resonating and what your people want to receive.

Mm-hmm. And that takes some [00:16:00] adjustment. And yeah, there's a big difference between, there's some people that just have so much charisma, you know, and talent and, um, you know, charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent to quote RuPaul. 

Lesley Logan: Right. And, um, one of our favorite people 

Shay Kostabi: on this planet, right. And they just seem to have this God-given gift, you know, and they're operating purely on intuition and instinct.

Yeah. Which is great. And, and so powerful, like use that, tap into that, but that's also very primal and very dangerous and inconsistent. Yeah. And so when you use tools and you show up with intention, the intention that you bring is what dictates the outcome. So now you have more control about how you are connecting and relating and resonating with people because you have made specific choices about how you're gonna show up in the room.

And that starts with knowing who you are. Yeah. We do have to create a [00:17:00] persona that seems like a, like a character, right? Yeah. Like we need that Superman for Clark Kent. Yeah. Like we need that because we play small in our lives and we don't always use our superpowers, or we're not conscious of them or, um, and then when you step into the arena, when you step in front of people, you need to be at your highest frequency.

Yeah. You have to be. And sometimes that requires calling in, there's so many exercises that you can do. You might think about a spirit animal or, um a famous person that you admire. Or even like, it could be qualities of your grandmother, which I often pull in. She was such a badass. Yeah. You know, um, but sometimes we have to like, kind of put that on so that we can step into who we really are.

Yeah. And our, our most potent, our most 

Lesley Logan: powerful. I mean, the persona is almost like the Be It Till You See It. Like it's kinda like that. Yes. And [00:18:00] some of my best classes that I ever taught when I was a new teacher, when I was sick, because like I didn't want anyone to know I was sick.

Yeah, right. And so like, I like stepped into that and I was, and I remember going, wow, that was one of the best classes. People was like that was the best class. I'm like, what is different? And it's because I was like, oh, I didn't want anyone to know that my vibe was low, so I brought my vibe as high as I could.

What if I did it all the time? But because I 

Shay Kostabi: And when you're not, yeah, when you're not sick and (...) Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Wow. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine Unstoppable and, and then also, I mean, I think what was unique about when I first started teaching is like when I left the class, I was still in the space, right?

I was in a high-fitness club, so I couldn't like turn off. Yeah. Because I'm going to the locker room, the same bathrooms that everyone else is using. And then I'm going in here and I've been in those classes, but the person's on, and then you see them grabbing their stuff and they're like, uh, Yes. Like they're just not there.

And I never wanted people to feel like I was inauthentic. I always [00:19:00] wanna make sure that they felt like who I was and who they were taking class with was very similar. But I can't be at that vibe all the time. Like, no, obviously there's other things, but one of the best compliments I ever got ever is that when I met these people in Australia, they said, you're exactly the same on in person as you are online.

And I'm like, yes. And that is, I think, where people, people get the persona thing confused. They feel like they have to act like somebody. And it's like, no, you have to act like the person you actually wanna be and you'll, you're gonna bring yourself up to that level. And then, but people, the intention you have behind is what people are going to gather up and they'll come along the journey with you. 

Shay Kostabi: Yeah. Yes. Take them on the journey. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna pull it like a bunch of threads here. Yeah. Number one, you have to be able to take it off. Right. That, that high, you can't operate at that high frequency. You may sometimes need to carry it into the lobby, into the locker room, into the parking lot.

Right. You will have to carry it, but at some point you have to be able to [00:20:00] say that is for this space. Mm-hmm. And now I, I get to be something else because the other thing you said about, um, when the person said you're exactly the same on camera as you are in person. Right. Those are different, but they're also the same.

I doubt very much that you're the same person on camera, that you are, you know, when you're in bed reading a book or like watching a movie with your husband, like there has to be some separation there. Yeah. And, and there's so many reasons why that's beneficial. You teach the worst class of your life.

Somebody tells you they hate your music, they don't like your face, they don't think that you should be teaching this modality because you don't look like X. Yeah. You know, or whatever the deal is. And you cannot internalize that. You can't take that. Everybody has an, when you put yourself in front of people, you are just opening the doors for criticism.

Yep. Every single person in that room has an opinion of you. If they're your followers, if they come all the time, they're your clients, your members, they think very highly of you. But [00:21:00] there's always gonna be somebody in there like, why is she wearing that? So...(Lesley: oh yeah). 

Lesley Logan: And that, and that can't be, that can't be something you internalize.

It's just why there has to be the part of you that's like for yourself. Yeah. And, and that you get to, you know, when I walk my dogs for sure, you guys, I don't look good. I'll tell you right now, I, my neighbors probably are like, who the hell? I like wear the biggest coat with the biggest hood up and over and I play a video game while I'm walking my dogs.

Shay Kostabi: And that's authentic too, right? Yeah. That's authentic to you. But that doesn't belong in the space where you are a teacher and a leader. So that's what I mean. It's, yeah, it's the ability to turn aspects of yourself on and off so that you can show up, as I said before, and you're most potent and powerful.

And actually make the change that you seek to meet, make for the clients that you serve, or for whatever it is that you're showing up for. And, um, you know my, like a great example, my [00:22:00] name's not even Shay, that's not my name, it's not my nickname. Nobody called me shay growing up, I was working at a studio on the Upper East Side at the front desk, and they asked me to come in and take, they were first, they were like, if you want to work here, you have to take the cycling class.

And I was like, I don't like bikes. Um, I took the class and I fell in love. Um, they invited me into the training. A couple weeks, weeks later, I was on the podium. My mom fell over on the floor laughing because I cannot ride a bike outside. I mean, I can, but my risk of getting hit by a car is pretty high. Um, so, uh, and I was just, I, I mean, something clicked.

I was like, this is for me. But the manager came in and she was like, so, your name doesn't fit on the board. And this was when we had, you know, chalkboards that people would, oh, your name doesn't fit on the board. It's too long and it's too hard to spell and [00:23:00] pronounce and remember. And she said, and I said, great thanks.

And she said, do you have a nickname? And I said, no, nobody has ever had a hard time saying my name. That's not true. Everybody has a hard time saying my name. But, uh, she said, can we call you Shelly? And I said, not if you like your two front teeth. And uh, and so I said, I have one friend that one time randomly called me Shay and said, my alter ego should be Shay.

And I didn't even, alter ego, that's like not even something I thought about. And she said, how do you spell it? I said, I have no idea. I have no idea. Um, and I, I really wanted it to be like c h e, like Che, but I, that's 

Lesley Logan: not right. (...) No, like in, based on this whole conversation I want it to be phonetic.

Shay Kostabi: So I was like, as long as it's not s spelled like the cocoa butter, I don't care. Um, so she's spelled s h a y and I became Shay and I loved it because I was a brand new instructor. Uh, I was [00:24:00] teaching on the Upper West, upper East side, excuse me. Which if, you know, it can be brutal. And um, I was still working as an actress and so it allowed me to kind of play the character of fitness instructor and not feel like.

I don't know. It just allowed me the space to just show up to this one place and do that one thing at that time. And Shay was like, so cool and so powerful and like funky and funny and Shalene, which is my real name, is like kind of, you know, was like insecure and still trying to find her place in the world and all of those things.

I'm all of those things. Yeah. And now 15 years later I, I'm, I don't currently teach, like I'm not on the board anywhere, but I'm still Shay. Yeah. And she feels exactly like me. Like they're the same. Yeah. It almost helped me. Right. [00:25:00] She 

Lesley Logan: is the real me. This is the Be It Till You See It story. Yeah. Like this is it.

Like, yeah. I, there you go. Like that. You know what's okay. And, um, I, I definitely wanna, I wanna get into what you're passionate about right now, but I just wanna say like, I, um, resonate with that a lot. Like I, um, I don't know when we started, somebody started calling me LL and that I was like, oh, I like that better.

Yeah. 

Shay Kostabi: When you see it in writing. So like, I got your sheet on how to prepare and it says Lesley will do this, and then later it's like when LL says, I was like, oh, listen up. Pay attention. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. 

Shay Kostabi: There's a little bit of like, there's 

Lesley Logan: something, you're the boss. I'm the boss. Yeah. And like, oh yeah. So when I go to things like, oh my God, LL and I'm like, it's kind.

It's like it is. It is. Um, Uh, it is that next level version of me that I wanna make sure I'm like stepping. That's like, there's this power. Yeah. You know, like Cher has one name, like LL it's, you know, it's two initials, but there's just something about it 

Shay Kostabi: that makes it like, you know, it's, it's yours. It's unique to you.

[00:26:00] And what's interesting is that it's been given to you. So it's a reflection of how people perceive you. Yeah. And then you have a responsibility to kind of live up to that. Yeah. Which means you have to be intentional. You have to be consistent. Right. And it has to be clear because that's what people are expecting of you and it pushes you to like evolve and like be at your best.

But also in the appropriate arenas. So that you can. You know, it's so many things, protect you from burnout. Guide you on a very clear career path. Attract brand partnerships. Um, it's, it's, it's a little, it is a bit of like a protection at first, but then it ends up being like, you know, it turns sort of from your armor into your sword.

Like, it's very cool. It's very cool. This 

Lesley Logan: is so fun. Um, I think Brad's gonna love everything about this. I can't wait for him to listen. Um, cool. Okay. I know you're super passionate about something right now. Yeah. This feels like you're super passionate about. Yes. But I also know there's something else you've been working on.

I would love, I wanna make [00:27:00] sure we get into it. So can you tell everyone what you're excited about right now, what you're working 

Shay Kostabi: on? Yeah. The persona development is part of it. I've been teaching this for years. I've been coaching people through this. I've been helping people define this both from the instructor side and also on the brand side.

You know, understanding, um, your persona, your archetype, and your superpowers is so, um, intrinsic to, like, you need that to build a brand. Like it's kind of where you start. And then of course as an instructor, it's like how you show up. And then the thing that I'm most excited about, right, like right now that I talk about all the time, kind of in alignment with persona, they're both very top of mind, is, um, flow states in regards to experience design, particularly in fitness.

So I think that stems from, again, my background in, in a family of artists and creatives, musicians, painters, um, the like sensory experience. The visuals, like the quality of things has always been really important. [00:28:00] And then growing up as a dancer and being an actor and also working in production, both in film and um, like in theater.

Right. Like all of the psychological cues that are like built into things to draw people into a story and into an experience. Yeah. And then, you know, through the work that I've done through programming and brand building for fitness studios, it's now evolved into, and experience is such a, like a buzzword right now.

Everybody's like, it's about the experience, the member experience. And yes. You know, people are like, you need AI, you need tech, you need this fancy thing. And I'm like, whoa, slow down. That's, those are important and those are valuable tools, but like getting back to the basics. Ultimately when we think about an experience, an optimal experience, it's something that is multisensory, that is immersive, that takes you out of the mundane of like ordinary life and transports you [00:29:00] essentially out of time.

Mm-hmm. And is so addicting, so pleasurable that you will do almost anything to get back into that experience. Mm. Despite the challenges, which in fitness could be the difficulty of the workout. Yeah. Um, the cost, right? Yeah. And so, you know, I hear all these people, it's like, everybody wants to know, what do I charge, right?

Like pre. Yeah. That's something that you coach to, right? ...(Lesley: Oh, yeah, yeah.) Which is so important. But again, when you are super clear on the experience that you're providing and the value and you're intentional, meaning that you can dictate the outcome price, I'm not saying it's no object, like, um, you do have to consider it.

And there's so many factors that come into play, but in regards to like what people are willing to pay. [00:30:00] It's like if it's good people are gonna put their money down, they're gonna make sacrifices for it. Well, I think 

Lesley Logan: you're what? I know you're 100% correct because I was that person I could not afford Pilates like I could afford.

So I like you with the bike. I resisted going to Pilates class. I was like, that's not gonna be great. Mm-hmm. And I went to this class and the teacher was so good at making sure I understood, even though it was my brand new class, that I understood how to do the exercise that I, and it wasn't too slow and it wasn't too fast.

It was like exactly like, got me into my body and I was like, whoa, what is this feeling that I have? Yeah. And then I got a membership to the, this boutique place where I could go between their five locations. I can go to class every single day. That that membership was expensive. I had to get out of a gym membership that I had because I couldn't afford both.

Mm-hmm. And then it was expensive for me at the time. It's nowhere near expensive now, but it was expensive. Isn't that funny? At the time, yeah. And when I moved to LA that membership would be more expensive and I couldn't get to class every day. And I was like, [00:31:00] okay. So then I found a person who could teach me, um, I could afford a private a month.

Basically, uh, but she was doing, or she found me a duet partner and I could go every other week. And so I would take my little Pilates book and do it every day at home. And then I would go to this duet twice a month and I would make sure I could afford that. And eventually I figured out a way to afford it every week.

I don't know. Right? Nothing changed in my life, but I like made that happen because the experience was so good. And I think people like that, having me aspire to even afford that was actually a journey I needed to go on. ...(Shay: Ooh, that's good.) Um, so that, I, I just, it just was, I, I really valued, I never missed, I never missed my every other week session because I didn't wanna go.

So, I didn't wanna miss like a month. So I think like, one, focusing on the experience we give allows people to reason, they'll figure the price out themselves. Like the budget is not our job. The budget is their job at our job is to make sure that they feel so seen, so heard. And [00:32:00] so like they got so much out of that.

And too often I hear people, and this is gonna another tangent and I wanna get back to flow states, but hey, like, oh, what should I give people to get more clients? It's like you cannot pay them to tell their friends. The experience has to speak 

Shay Kostabi: for itself. So they just tell people. Give them, give them a better experience.

Yeah, give them, so when we talk about flow states, it's, again, it's that sensation of, well, you tell me. What does being in flow feel like for you? Like when you into that class, what, what are some of the sensations that you felt 

Lesley Logan: you lose track of time. I did not look at the clock once ever, ever in a class.

Good answer. 

Shay Kostabi: Yeah. Anything else? 

Lesley Logan: Um, I think it's so, it's so easy to turn off life. Like you can have, like, you can like literally be like lifeing it and like, you know, and then the class starts and like, you forgot the email that drove you crazy earlier that day. Cuz you're like, in that 

Shay Kostabi: moment. That's called hypofrontality.

That happens when a certain number of triggers happen and your thinking brain turns off and so therefore you have [00:33:00] no concept of time. And it can feel, for some people it, it's like, class started and then it's over, and you're like, whoa, what, what just happened? I blinked. That was so incredible. And for some people it's like, oh my gosh, I just, it was like a lifetime, but in a good way, right?

Mm-hmm. When time drags, when you're constantly checking the clock, that's the wrong kind of lifetime. But there's other times where it feels really expansive and you don't wanna leave. And so it's a little bit different for everybody, but the suspension of time and turning off of life, um, like that thinking brain are exactly what you're going for.

That state is so addictive. So when that happens, your brain releases a ton of chemicals. The ones we always hear, dopamine, oxytocin, um, um, endorphins, anandamides. So there's all of these things. And that cocktail, that specific cocktail is so addicting that humans, it's one of the things we live for, we will seek it out over and over [00:34:00] and over again.

Mm-hmm. One of the coolest things about dopamine is that it's the molecule of more. So if you can turn it on, um, you know, as a facilitator, as somebody who creates an experience that, that releases the dopamine. Um, you, you are, you'll, you're always, it never ends. It always will want more. There is no satisfaction.

There is no end point. Mm-hmm. So this ties directly into. Um, how long your clients stay with you and how often they come back. So when you start to understand what's actually happening in people's brains and then learn tools to activate, right, to trigger the release of those chemicals and support that suspension of time, and then learn what the disruptors are so that you stop doing them.

Now you're starting to create an environment where we can't make people get into flow, right? And it's not guaranteed, but we can create an the environment where that's very suitable for it and it's most likely to happen more often. [00:35:00] And then you've got your clients hooked on your experience in like the best way, like the best kind of addiction.

And then you support that with all the of the other things that we talk about right In, in business and when we are all of the things I'm sure you've touched on in your trainings and your, right, but it kind of starts from like, really what we're selling is an experience. And I say this all the time, nobody cares about your workout.

You know, it, it, it really isn't the Pilates, it's not the bike. Those, those are the vehicles. And if you, if you do it right, and you use the tools well people are like, I love Pilates. But you, you really could have given them something else as long as you understand how to get them into a flow state, you know?

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, like, I think this is this, um, my brain is like thinking, like when people are like, oh, people talk in my classes. It's like, you're not, you're not getting them into a place where they just listen to you. You're not commanding that room. You're, that's your fault. Yeah. Your experience is not, uh, you're not in charge.

They're in charge. And so you're not [00:36:00] like that. And, and they will, they'll last as long as they are entertained to talk to each other in that class. Mm-hmm. That's not, they're not gonna be, they're not there for you. Right. So I think this is like, it's such a challenge, um, because it forces us to really own certain values.

And I think people are afraid to do things like that because rules and values and, and having things in place require you to repel certain people. 

Shay Kostabi: So part of building a community and, and an experience for a community is, um, everybody talks about core values, but we don't often talk about constraints.

They go together. So you have your, if you imagine a circle, you have your core values in the middle, like that's your operating system. That's where everything stems from. And then you have like, A, a little metal circle with some doorways. Right. Those are your constraints. Mm-hmm. And the constraints are not to keep people out or to push them out, they're to keep the people who truly belong in this community safe.

Mm. [00:37:00] Right. And it, so it's not about turning people away, it's about making sure that the people that are right for you feel a deep sense of belonging and appreciation and trust and safety. People like us do this here. People like us do not do this here. And if you want to come play, you can't do this thing.

And it's not to punish you or keep you out. It's so that when you're in here and you, and if this is a place you feel like you belong, you feel safe. Oh, I 

Lesley Logan: love this reframe so much because I do think that people start to feel bad. They're like, well, if I'm not for everybody, then I'm not like doing this thing.

It's like, 

Shay Kostabi: actually, you can't be for everybody. You can't be for everybody. 

Lesley Logan: You just fucking can't. You just can't. There are people who will hate this podcast. They'll hate the sound on my voice. They'll hate what I have to say. They'll whatever. Like, right. But like if you're like, you, everyone is welcome if you follow these things, these 

Shay Kostabi: rules.

So simple things and these, so this is both about, this is so, this is so great. This ties into community and culture. This [00:38:00] ties into experience and flow states. So if you say door, there is no late entry doors closed. Class starts at seven, doors are closed at seven. You can't even come in five minutes late.

Right. People get mad about that, but what you're doing is you are setting standards and expectations, right? And you're key. You are ensuring that everybody who showed up on time and is there, is now fully immersed in the experience without distractions, the door's not gonna open, the light's not gonna creep in.

Somebody's not gonna step over your mat or like around your thing or hit you in the head with their bag or whatever the deal is. Same thing with no cell phones, same thing with where you put your personal items and what's allowed, you know, food and drink and all of, um, clothing attire. All of these things are, are really about controlling the environment in a way that again allows for the best possible outcome to happen, the best experience.

Mm-hmm. [00:39:00] So you can't feel bad about that because it's serving the people that, that want to be there. It's, 

Lesley Logan: it's all comes down to like, like for whatever reason, well, not whatever. There's a specific reason. Our brain is so conditioned to the negative that we are not seen that there are 15 people who showed up on time and they actually want to be here on time and they put their stuff where it is and you're like, oh gosh, I don't want this one person who's always 10 minutes late to get mad.

And it's like, but these 15 people love you like that, that they, there's 15 of 'em and we are so like, oh my gosh, with this one person, it's like, you got that one person needs to, you have to be the lesson that that person needs to learn, which is, I have to be up on time for things I wanna 

Shay Kostabi: have change in my life.

Right, exactly. Or you shift their beliefs and you get them on your page or they're not for you. Yeah. Yes. Everything you said, you, you nailed it. It's this, 

Lesley Logan: uh, this has me like this, this has me so excited because I've been really trying to [00:40:00] work on this with, with the people that we work with for years.

Because there's this whole, like, if I niche down, then I'm not gonna have enough clients. It's like, well, that's not true. And there's, there's so many people on this planet. 

that is 

Shay Kostabi: a false narrative. I can tell you with all the people that we, this is what we specialize in, it's like, you are going to define your niche and you are gonna get hardcore specific.

Every single person that has done that has tripled their income within 90 days. Yeah. Because 

Lesley Logan: also you, there are people, like, there are people who will aspire to be that person and like that. So you, you, it's like there we're, we're so afraid that we're we're gonna, um, that we're, we're gonna leave people out.

Mm-hmm. That we're not really understanding that we're, our job is to actually be there for the people that are in. And then those people have such an amazing experience. They, their friends who've been looking for this reason, looking for something to change their life. They're like, Oh my gosh. I'm gonna, I wanna, like, I wanna change to be that person.

We have to be, [00:41:00] we have to be willing to stand up for what we believe in and allow people to rise up to that level, because otherwise we're just, it's like a class. You, I, I, I, uh, an all levels class is really hard because you're, if you don't do it right. You're teaching to the beginner who just walked into the class.

Yes. And really, you have to teach to the person you want people to be, and then offer options up and down. Right. 

Shay Kostabi: But, Ooh, let, can I, can I, yes, yes. This ties directly into flow state. Is this so true? Okay. So yes. You always teach, you teach to the aspirational identity. You teach to the strongest person in the room, and then we hear this all the time.

You need the modifications and, and the options. The reason for this, the scientific reason is something called CS Level or CS balance, which is your challenge, skill, balance. This is so important and it's kind of a reframe when you think about it this way. In order for someone to have an optimal experience to potentially drop into flow state, this really powerful place that we're talking about [00:42:00] where time is suspended and we just can't wait to get back to it, right?

You want people to come back to your class over and over again. The challenge that you provide must match the skill level of the participants. How do you do that in a group fitness class when everybody's at a different level and you have your front row people who are diehards and you've got this new person who just came in.

This comes down to how you coach and how you cue and how you program making sure that you are prepared and intentional and, and you and your eyes are open and you're looking around the room. I have been in so many classes where the instructor does not even really look at what's happening.

Like that person's knees are buckle. I just watched the class the other day. I'm like, oh, that person can't even squat. Why are you adding squat jumps? Why are you doing that, please? You know? So you have to have your eyes open. And I think when you understand why underneath, so if the challenge is high and the skill level is low, this turns on our fight or flight mechanism.

We go into panic and anxiety and [00:43:00] ultimately we feel like I don't belong. There's multiple levels at play here. What you were talking about, that sense of belonging, right? You can't be for everybody. Everybody just wants to belong. That's all anybody wants. And we are so starved for it. I mean, people are sick over isolation and feeling like they don't have a place.

You make a place for everybody and you make a place for nobody. There has to be a place. Again, it ties back to where we started, your core values, your abilities, your belief, what you believe your service can do for people. The change that you seek to make. Those have to be really specific because I love music festivals, but I don't wanna go to stage coach, right?

That place is not for me. I just because I love music festivals doesn't mean that all music festivals are for me, just because I love fitness or even Pilates does not mean that every Pilate studio is for me and it shouldn't be, right? I don't want to be one of a million, you know? I want to be a [00:44:00] part of something bigger than myself and I want, and you said I wanna feel seen and heard, so again, Coming back to the specifics of it, when the challenge level is high, but the skill level of the participant is low, it's so off.

This is when they go back into hyper frontality, they start thinking about life. Right. They're not even listening to you. They're so concerned about their performance. Yeah. They're like looking around at other people and they're like, can I do this workout? Will I ever be able to do this workout? Do I fit in here?

Is the instructor gonna help me? And I always teach people when I'm training instructors, like, we really wanna know, what am I doing right? How can I do it better? That might mean the progression or the how can I be better? Yeah. Why am I, why am I pushing so hard sometimes? And then when it gets really hard, how long am I doing it for?

Yes. We don't always need to know. It's only when it's really hard that we need to know for how long. So again, this your coaching, your ability to observe, um, you know, and how you adjust the [00:45:00] programming to help that person get closer to a state where they experience flow. Something called unconscious competence where, uh, you're not thinking about the action anymore.

You're able to just perform it. Yes. That's why you give the modification. It's not just ability, it's the sense of belonging and inclusion. When the challenge level is low, but the skill level of the participant is high, now we have apathy. I don't care about this workout. Why am I here? We do have to have some challenge.

Otherwise there's no point in engaging. Right. When the challenge is high in the skill level is high. This is the most optimal place for people to go into flow. But it's still, it's, it's just so easy, right? Yeah. It's like it matches, I'm like at my best, but you can still have a high challenge with like a lower skill level.

Again, as long as you make the adjustments and you're conscious of what's happening and you make that person feel like it's achievable and they belong here, [00:46:00] even if they can't perform the exercise with, I'm using so much jargon, but professionals are listening. Unconscious competence. You know, the ability to just do it without thinking.

I actually really 

Lesley Logan: love this. Um, this is something that like with OPC onlinepilatesclasses.com, it's our website, um, it's a hard thing to do. It's a virtual experience, but it's a community. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So all these things in place to make sure that people feel the community and and our values are, are all over it.

But one of the things that I'm so, cuz Pilates can be so hard, if you on the mat, it's the fucking hardest. Like, it's just the hardest guys. I. I can, I can give you all the modifications of the world and it's still not gonna get your hips over your head if you don't have the skill level to do it. So one of the things that we love to say, and it's like, and, and I love when I see our members actually say it, is, um, it's brave and courageous to replace this exercise with one we've already done.

So if this is not where you're at yet, then whatever we've already done, that was a challenge for you. Not easy. Go to that. It's a challenge for you. Go to that. Just repeat that. Because it's all compounding and we, uh, we say it all the time because I know that we have new people [00:47:00] showing up that's their first time, and we have other people who need to be reminded 28 times now to, to like for it to click.

And it's, because also, I don't want people to not ever reach the level of the most advanced exercises, right? Because your body can do that. Your body can do that at a lot of ages. It just has to be built up to it. So I think that this, thank you for the confirmation. I have more confidence in myself now.

Um, But also, um, I, I, I also think that it's just been, it's a really great reminder for everyone listening that like, your job is to get people in this flow state, and you get them in there because of the experience you provide and you, you, you give them an opportunity to rise up, so that everyone can be part of this community.

You're so fucking awesome. I love you. We, we could talk for hours. We're gonna have to like, have our own like spinoff shows. I think everyone, everyone will wanna hang out. We'll just do a show. Yeah. Um, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna um, uh, find out where people can find you, follow you, and of course Be It action items.

All right, Shay. So you've given us so [00:48:00] much. But, um, before we do our Be It action items, where can people find you, follow you, stalk you, do personal work with you? 

Shay Kostabi: Ha uh, well first you can go to Fitness Career Mastery, fitnesscareermastery.com. That's also the name of the podcast. Uh, Instagram Handle @fitnesscareermastery.

And then specifically for the instructor side, you can go on Instagram. It's @theGroupx_conservatory. So I do conservatory like training. I do a masterclass every single month. I sometimes do like 30 day intensives. Uh, also work with people one-on-one and privately in studio. And you can learn about that @fitnesscareermastery as well.

Lesley Logan: Amazing. All right. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. 

Shay Kostabi: Okay, so we've been talking about this the whole time. Superpowers are truly the key to unlocking your potential. As I've mentioned, stemmed from your core values and beliefs, [00:49:00] your unique attributes, your abilities, your skills, your interests.

It's the foundation for both your personal life, like knowing your superpowers, um, helps you figure out what kind of community you belong in or like what kind of Pilates studio you want to attend or workout or fitness program you want to attend. And then on the professional side, it really is part of the foundation of building a brand and a community, what kind of Pilates studio you should have and who you're meant to serve.

And they're so unique and, and like that really is your differentiator, like how it comes together. There might be other people like you. Like I feel like Lesley and I like hang out in the same like area. But we are not the same. You know, like when you really get down to it and our superpowers are so different, they might be in alignment.

So like that's where. You know, Lesley and I can share the same, or we can serve the same people, but how we do that is ultimately gonna be so [00:50:00] unique to us, even if we were going off the same script. So for the instructors out there, once you know this, I could give everybody the same program with the same playlist.

It's gonna come out differently from every single person, particularly when you know who you are. And it's like your life really opens up when you get super clear on this. So here's how you do it. You're gonna get out a sheet of paper and you're gonna make like a Venn diagram. That's what it's called, right?

Yeah. Circles, three circles, three big circles, and they need to overlap. And there's gonna be like a little space in the middle that makes kind of like a triangle. And in one circle you're gonna write down all your core values. So these are your non-negotiables, the things that matter most to you, the things that give your life, meaning, purpose, and direction.

You could do this for your business separately as well. They're, they should be different. There will be overlap, but they should be different. Um, you can Google values, but things like authenticity, consistency, trust, respect, community, um, travel, right? All the things that you're like, if I didn't have these things, [00:51:00] I, I can't operate.

And then the next circle, you're gonna put your skills and abilities, both those that you were gifted with by nature or nurture, and some of the ones that you've acquired along the way. They don't have to be things that you like. Just write down your skills and abilities, the stuff that makes you weird.

The things like, think about the things that people come to you for and don't just, if you work in fitness, don't just write down fitnessy things. Write, tell all the things that you're great at. And then the last one, you're gonna put your interests. So all of the things that you love to do. And the easiest way to do this is to look at your bank account and your calendar, because you may say that your interest is, you know, books. But if you haven't bought a book in a year, you either need to find a way to get back to that or maybe readjust. Whenever I do this, I'm like, oh, I always say that I love X. And I'm like, I don't do that anymore. So this is a no matter, even if you're like, I know my persona, I know my superpowers. This [00:52:00] is a great exercise to just check in cuz things change.

And then in each circle they're gonna overlap, right? So core values will overlap with interests. Interests will overlap with skills and abilities, right? And in the middle, it's blank. You gotta figure that out. This is kind of where I come in and help people usually, cuz it's hard to read the label from outside the bottle.

Yeah. But in that center is where your superpowers lie and that is the gift that you bring to the world and you are doing a disservice to yourself and everyone around you if you are not showing up and using that every single day. Both like in the studio and like in your relationships and your life. So quick example is, you know, if I were to look at my core values, some of them are teaching and mentorship, community travel, um, uh, creativity, right?

Experiences, and then my abilities are many. I've listed lots of them. Right. Um, and [00:53:00] then interests. There's a lot of overlap there. So, um, just sort of touching on that, when I look at the overlap and I come to my super, one of my superpowers is the ability to take two sometimes seemingly unrelated or even conflicting ideas and finding that intersection to carve out a unique path to mastery, that is ultimately what I do for my clients. Right? I can see both sides. And that is pulled from my experience, my core values, my interests and my skills. Teaching and mentorship is also a skill. Experience design is an, is a skill.

I'm deeply passionate about flow states, but I've also acquired the skills. I have taken courses, re read books, um, actually put it to the test like through trial and error. So then it becomes, it feeds into my superpowers and I show up. I talk about these things every day. I use them every single day, whether it's [00:54:00] helping my friend make a decision because they're like, I have this, but I want this, and where do I go? And I'm like, well, don't you see this way? And let's just put it together like this, and here's your steps. Boom. Or a client comes and they're like, I wanna do a Pilates class on an airplane. And I'm like, cool, let's figure it out.

You know, whatever it is. So, you know, so ...(Lesley: I love, yeah. I love a puzzle). Yeah. So when you write it down, you're gonna look, you're like, okay, these are my superpowers. And then the next step is really like, think, you know, ask, ask your friends, the people that love you, like, you know, how do, so this tries into persona, like, how do you perceive this?

Like, this is my skill. Show me how it, it, like how does that resonate with you? And then you can start to, so many things come out of this. It like, it gives you a mission and direction, a purpose. And when you start from there, you get to bring your best self to the table every single day and work in your zone of genius and find allies who compliment your superpowers. Like build your A team [00:55:00] to like help you. Whether it's a business partnership or a board or just a group of friends who are like, I know you, I see you and you're clear and I can help you. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Ooh, I love this because, um, I think no matter who you are, listening to this, figuring out what your persona is can really help you show up in the best ways for anything that's intimidating you.

And anytime that you're like, oh my gosh, I have to like, go talk to these people, it's like, well, That persona is obviously not gonna be scared of those people. And so you can like, show up and, and show off how amazing you are. Shay, you are such a light. You are so fun. Um, I can't wait for our first in-person date of ever hanging out, but we're gonna have a great weekend.

We have to make it happen. We're gonna make it happen. Um, thank you so much everyone for listening to this. Thank you Shay, for just spreading all of your goodness. We'll have to have you back. And how are you going to use these tips in your life? Make sure you tag Shay, tag the Be It Pod, share this with a friend, share with five friends.

You'll probably wanna listen to it a couple times because we [00:56:00] talked about so many amazing things. Write some notes and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell: Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to [00:57:00] Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Lesley shares her listeners’ journey of becoming a Pilates teacher and getting the job they manifested. Tune in to find out why you should stop self-sabotaging and start making time for what you want.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Reflecting on the journey to becoming a better teacher.
• How the Remember When game worked for Allison at landing a job. 
• How Lesley overcame overwhelming challenges and self-sabotage.
• Making the time and creating a “Fuck It” list.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan: [00:00:00] It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell: Fuck yeah! 

Lesley Logan: Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Brad Crowell: Hello. Welcome to Fuck Yeah Friday. I'm so happy you're here. You're fucking awesome. Do you know that? Do you tell yourself that? You are amazing. If you're not watching this on YouTube, I looked you right in the eye. I'm like, you are amazing. If you're listening [00:01:00] to this, I'm looking at you from the sky.

You are amazing. So, as you know, I share one of yours. I share one of mine. So here we go. So, first one is from Lisa. She has a T L D R. Lisa is in our eLevate round three. So eLevate is my mentorship for Pilates instructors and she's in the third round and this is her T L D R first. And then I'll share the whole win cuz it's not too long to read.

So she's like, I got to crow. Um, first I got to meet my Pilates partner, crystal and was blessed with a fantastic session. I was feeling so grateful to have her model for me, how to get me moving. So it happened to side note. Her partner Crystal was teaching her. Okay. Um, back to her win, to get me moving into my body with a sense of ease and knowing she's exactly the teacher I aspire to be.

And when it was my turn, I just allowed myself to be as I was without putting myself down. That's my little win. This is my big win. All right. This is her big one. Are you [00:02:00] ready? So she watched herself teach. I need to tell you a little side note, in eLevate we have them, I have them do assessments. They have to film themselves and themselves teaching, and I give feedback on their teaching.

So anyways, she watched her video back and she's like, I let myself feel the cringe and to judge and notice what I wanted to change and see all the things I could improve. In parentheses. Hello? Over cue over. Coeur over coeur all over the place. Let me tell you all the things, verbose teacher that I am in parentheses during this process, so many things came up.

Such a sense of shame of not being where I expected myself to be on my teaching journey. I started teacher training at Balanced Body in 2017 and finished in 2019. The story I was telling myself was that I have been at this for five years. Why am I not a better teacher? I want it. I watch all these younger teachers doing their teacher training at different places, and then they kill it leading the class and owning it.

I'm jealous and [00:03:00] admiration at their ability to cue with clarity and move bodies where I am just now feeling solid enough. And then it dawned on me. Have you really been teaching for five years? Not really. Hello Pandemic. Five years elapsed and diminished teaching hours to practically nothing. Have I really done all the things to improve my teaching? Emphatically, no, I jumped and I figured it out on a lonely process. Did I shout shadow teachers? Hardly. Did I ask for feedback on my teaching? Maybe once or twice. Did I take my own class? Hell no. And this is what surprised me most of all, despite the uncomfortable exercise, I watching myself, it made me so happy because this whole process has already been so informative.

Plus, I now get to do all the things in this supportive environment. And then I remembered the hard stuff. Becoming a better teacher wasn't a priority until recently, because I was caring for my mom whose breast cancer had metastasized when she passed away in December, 2021. Oh yeah, that and [00:04:00] all this to say, becoming a better teacher is fucking hard and courageous.

Lesley Logan: So yay to all of us for signing up on this journey. I'm so being it with all of you and happy dancing, Lisa. You're fucking awesome. I'm so happy you're part of round three. And this is exactly, like, your win is exactly why eLevate exists. You're exactly who I taught. I brought this for because my goodness, very few people have had a training journey that is ideal.

And also we see things that others. That they've not seen in themselves and we put them on a pedestal 

and we don't realize how fucking awesome we are. So thank you for sharing this. I also have one more one cuz I do need to update you on the journey of Allison. So y'all remember her FYFs cause I've been sharing them along the way and, y'all, she applied for her position at Washington University. She asked for she wanted, and she, um, and she was like, Ugh, I went on the interviews and all the things, and she was afraid that they didn't go so [00:05:00] great. But then she got the job. She got it. So then, what'd she do? She immediately put her notice in, took a two week vacation to see her husband who's in another country for a while, and is gonna be starting a job.

That's exactly what she wanted. So she played that Remember When game, and it worked. So maybe you should too. Okay, so now let me tell you my win. So my win, y'all is this, we had these trips planned for us to go to a wedding in Philly. We had to go to Korea. As you know, I've been telling you about these wins.

You also know about my way about going to Connecticut, and I had said yes, even though I had all these things coming up. Also, we had hired this amazing company to help us with a project that we wanted to do, and that meant I had to do more filming. So for me to film the amount of content we film for our companies in a month is about 70 pieces of content, and that doesn't include [00:06:00] all the tutorials I refilm when I do flashcards, which I was doing.

So in the month of April, I only filmed all of April's 70 pieces of content. I also finished filming all the exercise tutorials for the chair slash cards, which are shipping in June. And I filmed all of May's content. Yes. All of that. And as I'm recording this for you, I just wrapped up the stuff I had a film for this company and I have to tell you, there was a couple times when this part of me, this old part of me, this part of me that I've been trying to like let go of who was like gets a little perfectionist about things when things don't go well and things a little freaked out, that it's not gonna work out.

And I like almost sabotage myself. Well, I didn't do it. And I finish it all. I'm so fucking proud of it. And I share this with you because it is a journey to get your stuff done. It's a journey. And you, when the pressure is on, you can be so hard on yourself and the [00:07:00] content, and you're like, why am I doing this?

I'm just gonna procrastinate. You know what? I'm not even fucking gonna do it. And I was like, no. I committed to doing all these things so I could have a vacation. When I went to jsu, I have this dream and I'm met the right people at the right time, and I told them if they wanna work with me, they have to do X, Y, and Z because I have to be able to get it done before I go.

And so I set the bar and they're like, here, we're at the bar. And then I had to meet the bar and I did it, and it wasn't easy. I'm so proud of myself and the team. I'm sharing this win with you because you, there are so many things you wanna do and it's so easy to get in your own way because, ugh, the mic needs to be recharged or it's not good enough.

So you think or there's just not enough time in air quotes and my dear there is, you can make the time. If you care about it enough, I bet you could let go of something. Remember that one guest we had who was like, you have to have a Fuck It list. Like, [00:08:00] what are you gonna say, fuck that, I'm not doing it?

So you can do the things that are on your bucket list. So thank you for being here. Thank you for letting me share wins of people in my communities. Thank you for letting me share my win, to help inspire you to share your win. And by the way, I wanna hear your wins and I wanna share your wins on the next FYF.

So make sure you send them to me. And so we can share them with other people and inspire other people to take messy action, ditch perfection, and Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See it is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, [00:09:00] filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad crowell.

Lesley Logan: It is produced and edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell: Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Uncover the path to healing in this latest recap episode. Tune in as Lesley and Brad share their advice to navigate divorce with confidence and find your tribe of supportive individuals who will empower you to own your story.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How owning vulnerabilities can be powerful and healing.
• Embracing your journey and transforming it into a superpower to change lives.
• Setting intentions to find your tribe and allow conversations to help you process.
• Why paying attention to your financial situation can be freeing. 
• What being the CFO of your own life truly means.

Episode References/Links:

• Menopocalypse: How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too by Amanda Thebe
• She Who Wins by Renee Bauer
• World Reef Day
• The Hormone Reset Diet by Sara Gottfried, M.D.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell: [00:00:00] It felt like I was wearing this like monster on my back, right? And, but I was great at hiding it, no? And so it, but it, but it didn't help me process. It didn't help me heal. It didn't help me like experience, engagement with other people with this like, truth out there, right? Because like, I felt like they don't, it's none of their business.

They don't need to know, but it just kept eating at me, and it wasn't until I began to share with other people, oh yeah, I've actually been going through like a divorce right now. That, that, that was the beginning of healing for me. 

Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity [00:01:00] and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

​

Lesley Logan: Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap, where my co-host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the empowering convo I have with Renee Bauer in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one, feel free to pause us now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us.

And if you're listening on the O P C app, it's very easy. You can see like all like a bunch of recent episodes all at one time. So you can pick and choose however you want. If you're listening on the other places, I don't know how they work, but it's, you know, what you want to listen to Renee's especially if you've ever like felt like, oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed about this past thing I had in my life.

I thought it was 

so 

Brad Crowell: great. Yeah. Very liberating. And [00:02:00] also I appreciate the 

experience that 

she went through and you know what she's, how she's bringing her 

experience to other people who are suffering and in need. So that was pretty awesome. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, and I was just able to see her in real life at her 

Brad Crowell: event and... 

yeah, in 

case you're wondering 

what we're alluding to, she's a divorce attorney. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brad Crowell: And 

she's actually gone 

through divorce herself 

Lesley Logan: In case you're listening to this out of order. She's like... (Brad: Right) 

So her book, She Who Wins, which is also the name of 

her podcast and also the name of her event, comes out this September.

You guys, you can pre-order that book right now. And there's like special goodies that happen if you do pre-order the book and the way books go, loves, is, it all matters on the pre-orders 

now. So 

everything's always 

changing. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, that's 

the truth. 

Um, yeah. Well, let's just jump right into it. 

Lesley Logan: So today, 

Yeah! 

Is National, International Reef Day.

It's

like World Reef Day. 

Brad Crowell: yeah, 

So, [00:03:00] not that Lesley and I are surfers 

by any means... (Brad: but no, but you, we need the reefs). We need the reefs. I'm a big fan of keeping plastics out of the ocean, 

which is an obviously an incredible it's incredible how much plastic is currently in the ocean. In fact, when we were just flying to Korea on the way we stopped over in Honolulu. We had a layover there. Both ways. 

And I was 

watching a really fascinating documentary about the native, bringing back the native Hawaiian 

culture from like 

thousands of years. And they 

talked about the pan Pacific, you know, the ocean 

as if it was like 

its own 

continent. And how, you know, 

thousands of years ago 

people jumped on canoes and they 

explored the oceans by

the stars. 

Like, could you

imagine? Oh my gosh. Like the way that [00:04:00] people took a wagon and drove across North America. Wow. No. 

they were like, 

we're gonna go that way and hope that we hit 

land. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And the, and the scars are moving, but that's fine. 

Brad Crowell: I mean, 

pretty intense. Anyway, they, they 

were, they were talking all about the reefs and it really got me fired 

up about them again. 

Lesley Logan: So, so y'all 

get rid of your sunscreen and make sure you have sunscreen that is safe for, well, this is, I 

guess if you're going to a pool, do whatever you wanna do.

But if you're going into natural waters, you're going into the ocean, you must use a special 

sunscreen. So if you actually go to this World Reef Awareness Days site, they say 

you can observe this day by doing beach 

cleanup. You could become a virtual diver. Which 

I guess you do virtual tours. What, 

how is that helping anyways? Don't know this is their suggestion. Well, you probably just, I 

think once you're aware of things, it's 

hard to like be an asshole.

Then you can make your

own sunscreen that's actually really healthy for 

the reefs. So those are some things you can do. But 

truly, honestly, like 

if you can... 

Brad Crowell: Just roll in mud, that's 

your sunscreen.

Lesley Logan: I think 

they have 

bees wax in there, which is [00:05:00] only 

concerning because of the bees. We have a problem 

with the bees shortage and then there's a, 

y'all, there's a 

lot of stuff going on.

Please be kind

to the reefs 

cuz we actually 

really do support 

the ocean's microbiology and it actually affects your life in other ways if you don't, if you live near an ocean.

So talk like, you know, do the right thing. Call your friend who's going to the beach and make sure they're not using 

sunscreen that's gonna kill the reefs. 

Yeah. Anyways, we also 

have some other stuff 

going on right now. 

So, this 

is coming out

June 1st. We're a couple weeks away of doing a webinar for Profitable Pilates on how to convert first time clients.

So if you are a Pilates teacher or trained to be one. You will want 

to be at 

this webinar. Agency members, of course, you get the VIP ticket for free. If you're not an agency member, you can buy a 

ticket to 

the live. You'll have a three day replay. You can also, there's opportunities to buy a V I P ticket and also get to keep the replay forever, which 

is way

cheaper than buying it when 

it's a course.

So you'll want to actually go to the show notes below to actually sign up for the wait list or to sign up for [00:06:00] the webinar. 

Brad Crowell: And if you're 

watching, if you're listening to this after that's already occurred, get on the wait list 

anyway, because we do these webinars periodically throughout the year. And they're all, they're on these various topics and all 

stuff, so you'll be the 

first to know when you're on the wait list.

And we give you all 

sorts of hookups and stuff, so check out the show notes. 

Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: And then in July we 

have 

the Mullet tour in the northern part of 

the UK, Claire Sparrow's studio, which we're so excited about.

Brad Crowell: Oh, I cannot wait 

That's exciting. It's gonna be amazing. 

Lesley Logan: At the time 

that we're recording this, we only have 

four spots left. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, 

I know. It's 

insane. It's awesome. Yeah. It's so exciting. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And it's 

a really great small group. We're so, so, so excited about it. In August, we are doing our summer tour.

We have not released the 

cities yet, but we'll release so soon. So make sure you

stay tuned. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. All right. And then we actually, we, 

you know, you've heard us talk about all, our, all the rest of our 

plans and all the things, but yeah,

summer tour is gonna be super

fun and we've got some exciting news about 

that coming to you 

soon, with some sponsors and all 

sorts of stuff [00:07:00] that's kicking off. So it's gonna 

be great. 

But 

before we do that, let's see, we have an audience question today. From Karen Campbell. Thanks for submittingg this question. Karen is saying I'd be interested to see an episode

about menopause and specifically how to best support health for premenopausal women with herbal remedies. I saw a few episodes in lineup on women's health and maintaining hormonal balance. So maybe this topic's already been covered. 

If it 

hasn't been done, could you bring on a specialist to 

discuss it? 

Lesley Logan: So we are working on a menopause expert. To be honest, it's actually been a little tricky.

Hmm. So we are 

working on getting an actual expert just in menopause. So we have, thank you, Karen, for bringing this up. But here's the other thing about pre-menopause and all this stuff. 

It's so different for every single person. Like it is 

so different. 

So here are some, some places you can go for some more information for you right now until you wait.

I don't want you to wait for this advice. So here's the thing, there's a book called Menopocalypse. Yes. I'm [00:08:00] trying if you know the author of Menopocalypse everyone. I would like her on the show 

if she's listening to this, if she's to Google alert, hello, I want you on the show. The book is called Menopocalypse.

Even Brad listened to that book as well... (Brad: Idid.) It's really, really helpful. 

She explains like all the stuff about perimenopause and menopause that I like, a lot of stuff that they just don't talk about. And also the fears that are out there that are ...(Brad: Amanda Thebe) yeah. Thebe. So, hi Amanda. Come on 

the show.

Then 

also you guys, Sara Gottlieb. I heard her on Huber's podcast. 

Uh, she has several books out there and 

she actually has a hormone reset book. I have not done the hormone reset, to be honest. Elimination diets get a little bit hard for their, I have tendencies. I try to avoid those 

kinds of things. So Brad's been with me on elimination diets.

We 

just are trying

not to do them anymore. 

They, 

Brad Crowell: I just, 

that's the point where I just tell her it's all in your head, babe. 

Lesley Logan: No, 

it's not. So here's the deal. However, my dear friend has done Sarah

Gottlieb's hormone reset [00:09:00] and really did 

get some value out of it in her peri menopause journey. Cool. So Sara Gottlieb has some great books on hormones, hormonal diet you can do, and also has been on a Huberman talking about that.

Hmm. When it comes to herbal remedies, I look, I wish that I could tell you what 

those are. I'm not actually perimenopausal yet, so I haven't dove into myself. But 

in Amanda Thebe's book, there was some really great stuff including breath work. So 

you 

guys breath work is. Breath work, breath work, breath work.

You could just 

do so 

much. And 

for what, what Amanda brought up was box breathing, which is inhale for four. 

Hold for four. Exhale for four. Hold for four. 

Brad Crowell: And I do this 

to go to 

sleep 

sometimes. 

Lesley Logan: Yes. Yes. It's so helpful. But it's 

very much about

expanding the gut and breathing all the way down into your pubic bone.

And then when you exhale, she was 

like, and imagine just like pulling 

up, you know, your privates up like, a tissue coming out of a box and like that's how you excel. So it's not 

like the. Force like compressive, but like very much a uplifting exhale. Hmm. And that could be [00:10:00] really, really great. ...(Brad: good visuals.)

So, as far as maintaining hormone balance, balance, you guys do not be, like, there's a lot of stuff out there about 

H R T. It's just hormone replacement therapy.

If it works for you, it works for 

you.

Brad Crowell: So, yeah, she, in Amanda Thebe's book, you talked about that and, and yeah, I thought it was 

an interesting, I'd never even heard of it. So yeah, 

it was an interesting, 

like, exposure to what it is, 

what it could be, what 

it isn't, how like it's been. You know, there's like good and bad things out there 

about it. So,

218 Renee Bauer RECAP ROUGH: yeah. 

Lesley Logan: So until I can get a 

specialist on here, and again, I'm working on it, I'm, it's, I'm trying 

to find. Someone who schedule lines up

with mine, I would highly recommend those two, those two books. And then also telemedicine's really amazing. There are specialists, there are female doctor 

specialists in this that will do a telemedicine talk with you, and then you can get some, cream, some hormones, some patches.

Um, the other thing is, is like anything you have to be connected to your body. You guys. So if you are someone who's walking around a little bit disconnected, you might not understand that 

some of the symptoms you [00:11:00] have are perimenopausal. You might be thinking that it's food or that it's stress or something like that.

So, just journal what's going on in your body right now. So until you can find the person that really works for you, 

you can keep a log of how you're feeling on each day cuz then when they ask you how long you've been feeling like this, you don't feel like, I don't know how long I've been feeling 

Brad Crowell: like this.

That's a good point. 

because that's something you 

can start right now. For free. For 

Lesley Logan: free. 

So Karen, I hope to have 

a specialist soon. We've had other people wanting a menopause expert. I

hear you. It's coming. And hopefully that gives you some help for right 

Brad Crowell: now. 

Love

it. Okay. 

Now let's talk about Renee Bauer 

With two 

decades of experience as a divorce lawyer. 

Renee has emerged

as a powerful advocate in the women's empowerment space. She's forged a platform that bolds her self-worth and champions women's 

decision making, 

rooted in empowerment and financial

independence. 

Lesley Logan: Um, mm-hmm.

I'm gonna jump in. 

Brad Crowell: Do it. 

Lesley Logan: So, 

um, I actually loved that she just talked about owning it. [00:12:00] She was like, you know, she was telling her story about how she was like, ashamed to say that she's a divorce twice. 

Like, and then she just happened to share on a podcast with a friend like that she was, and people 

are like, oh my God, thank you so much.

And she realized that like what she was ashamed of was actually like the thing that helped connect her to most people. And so I really love that she, 

she is, was 

a proponent of like, just own the thing that scare, like, makes you worried that people are gonna be ashamed of you because it actually makes you vulnerable and makes people be able to trust you.

And as we've talked about, like she's really like, The best person to help everybody decide if they are, should be getting divorced on, like, what their 

next steps should 

be because of her experience. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. I was encouraged by her, you know, just 

the fact 

that she has seen 

both 

sides of the equation. And also, you know, 

like [00:13:00] being an attorney, 

you know, she's arguing on behalf of her clients, but she 

can also relate to her clients. I thought that was pretty cool. You know? When I went through my divorce, 

it was really 

interesting because I 

felt all the same things 

that she was talking about.

Shame. She talked about shame. I felt so ashamed that I was

even considering the 

concept, you know, or that it was actually being 

like, forced on me cuz I didn't want to do it at

first. I didn't wanna do it at all, in fact. And then when it, you know, after it happened, I really 

had to come to grips with that idea of, 

of like, you know, okay, I am a divorced 

person now.

And that was a whole, it was like a new identity. I don't even 

know why I felt like it was that, but it was, you know? So 

the fact that she can relate 

to

the people going through it, it was

really powerful.

Well, and also like 

Lesley Logan: in our own life, there's been different people in our lives 

who are going through [00:14:00] that and they were so embarrassed and they were like kind of shutting down and like people weren't able to like really talk to them.

And it's 

like, well, you can.

you know, because you've been through that and like, I think it's just so important to not be ashamed of the journey that you have, whatever that was. Maybe you've never been, 

maybe you've never been 

married. like 

some 

people are ashamed that they get to a certain age and they've never been 

in a long term like, the thing. 

Yeah, sure. The shame is such a thing that 

keeps us from shining our light and like you have this amazing skillset, whoever you are, whatever that is, to actually change lives around you. And if you're letting that journey that you've been on, be something you're ashamed of, when really it's actually 

the superpower that makes you who you are and makes you able to connect with people.

So I just love that she is owning this. And 

it is actually, 

it's actually what's, what's taking her with the book and with her event. It's really 

cool. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, I think 

that, also, you know, one, one 

thing that, 

she 

you know, She said, 

just

own it.

It sounds very [00:15:00] glib 

to say that like from,

if someone had just come to me and say, just own it, Brad, you're divorced or you're getting 

divorced, it would've been really hard for me 

to be like, okay, 

I'm in on that.

Like, 

no problem. But let me tell you from my own personal experience, 

I began to

heal when, and only 

when I quote unquote owned it. And for me it 

wasn't like this 

idea of like, I guess 

I'll just be this divorced person 

now. But what it was 

for me was I began 

to own it by no longer avoiding 

it in conversations with others. Right? Because 

it was so easy for me to just 

never bring it up. 

And so I'd meet 

people and they would never know that I'm like, for me, it felt like I was wearing 

this like monster on my back. Right? And, but 

I was great 

at hiding it, no? And 

so it, but it, but it didn't 

help me process. It didn't help me heal. It didn't help 

me, like, experience 

[00:16:00] engagement

with other people with this 

like, 

truth out there, right? Because like, I felt like, they don't, it's none of their business. They don't need to know, but it just kept eating at me, and it wasn't until I began to share with other people, oh yeah, I've actually been going through like a divorce right now that, 

that, that was 

the beginning of, 

of healing for me. Processing. So, yeah. ...(Lesley: I love that you said that.) 

Yeah. So, yeah, and actually, you 

know, she, her quote was exactly that and that's when I realized I need you 

to talk about this and not be ashamed about it.

So. Yeah. Yeah. 

Well, one thing that I loved that she said was, find your 

tribe. And, again, I felt this, I found this to be particularly challenging, the idea of just 

meeting strangers on the internet 

to like be 

in a group of divorced men like that, felt like, uh, I don't know these fucking people, you know? And I was, 

I was not really 

okay [00:17:00] with that. 

So my, 

so I didn't actually go to an online community. But what I did end up really turning to were my close 

friends. And, you know, they weren't divorced, 

but they knew who I, they knew me, 

they knew me before

my ex-wife, you know, 

for years before. And so having that 

support system was, I couldn't 

really go to my family. It was 

weird. I, you know, I didn't feel like that was 

okay to talk about it with my folks, you know, or my siblings, you know.

But having the community around me like really helped me get through it. And that's 

what she's 

talking

about here.

So your tribe doesn't need to be like, it could be an 

online

community of people who 

like, don't know you or you don't 

know them. And that you could 

find freedom in that, 

cuz there were some times 

where I felt 

like

It was okay to 

quote unquote air my dirty laundry [00:18:00] with people who I never would meet again.

I'd never 

see them again. It didn't fucking 

matter if

they judged me because I 

was like, 

yeah, your 

opinion means nothing to me.

And then 

alternatively 

finding your tribe with people who do care about 

you. you know? You could be doing that too. 

Lesley Logan: Well also, like 

you had friends from before you were married. I was not divorced, but after I left my ex five years, 

I didn't 

have any. 

because all of, I moved to LA and then we started dating 

shortly thereafter. 

And so all of my 

friends were his friends. So when 

I left, 

it was

like, poof, 

gone. And I have to 

tell you guys, 

there's this 

one story that is 

like

just, oh my gosh, I wish I could have a video of it so you could just see what was like. But I was in line for this movie through the cemetery and I'm in this line. I'm like waiting. I'm by myself cuz my one friend that I made, 

the one friend that I made was looking for parking. And 

so I'm by myself and this line 

and the way the line goes is it snakes back and forth.

And so I'm 

walking and I can see. Part of the line walking

towards me cuz

they're about to turn in the corner. 

And my brain [00:19:00] saw a friend, somebody who I was friends with 

because of my ex and my brain didn't go. Danger warning, run away. And so I was like, hi. Right. 

Like, oh my God. 

And they're like, 

oh my God.

And then behind 

them 

was my ex. 

And they're like, 

oh my God. And then behind him was this girl he was 

in 

and she was 

like, 

oh my 

God, at everybody. And then all I hear was, 

We're gonna have to

pass

her over and over again.

Brad Crowell: Oh, right. Cause The line snakes back 

and forth. 

Lesley Logan: Snakes 

back and forth. And I was just like, 

oh my 

God. And I'm likes, I'm like, I'm like, I don't care if you 

have to 

double park, you

park your car, you need to get your, I'll pay 

the ticket. 

I don don't care. We 

had to 

pass each other 

11 times. Oh. 

At any rate, I only had 

this

one friend at the time, but she was also making friends. And so when it says find your tribe, like that can be 

hard work.

And 

it was effort. And yes, that was 

a 

really terrible moment 

in my life, 

11 times. Oh my God. 

But, [00:20:00] but I did find 

friends

and those friends led me to more friends. And 

those led to more friends. And then it put me 

to finding myself 

more. And now, while I don't have a lot of those same friends, because we've moved and everyone's life 

has changed. And welcome to LA it's a very transient town. 

It did help me find myself, to get me to a place where I could like go on to 

other things. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. Yeah. Renee 

talked about joining a yoga group. Right? And how that became, like a 

lifeline to

staying in community with people. And you know, 

she, she actually said, 

you know, you're 

either gonna, she told herself, you're either gonna sit here all day 

and feel bad for yourself, or you're gonna put on some leggings and you're gonna go to yoga and you'll probably feel better at the end.

And I couldn't agree with her more. I mean, it was really easy to stay home, 

drink a bottle of wine, watch a 

movie, and, and feel, you know, like 

shit. And it wasn't until I began to [00:21:00] intentionally go out again, and that allowed those conversations with others to happen, that processing 

to 

happen. So, yeah, well, so honestly, I mean, that was, 

that was quite a trip down memory lane. I'm not gonna lie, I feel like I've heard this story about you bumping into your ex, but I didn't realize. Uh, it was clearly at the movies at 

It was a business. yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly, And you wanna, that's the only line that I could think of where you 

were like, oh.

I can I, can I tell you 

guys the best part? This is, okay, lemme just tell you the best part. I know we're running up 

on time, but lemme tell you this.

So you take pictures at

the movies

and it was

the slumber party night. It was the night where there was three movies in a row. 

And so we 

had 

my 

friends and I, 

once I got there, we like, got our picture 

taken.

And 

in between 

the movie, the first movie and the second movie, they were showing the picture that had been taken up on the 

mausoleum. you guys, it's like the 

biggest block of wall. And when my picture came up with 

me and my two friends, 

it [00:22:00] stayed up. 

For 

minutes. And I laughed 

so hard. I looked at my friends, I'm like, I'm good.

I'm outta here. Like I 

they are having to sit 

here and like, look and look. And I had this big 

cloak hood

on.

It was all scary 

movies. And so I just looked like, 

I was 

like looking down upon the people. Brilliant. 

And so get this the next, the Monday after I get an 

email. Nice

picture. 

Anyway, we should 

get 

Lesley Logan: into these Be It action items real quick. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. All right. So let's finally, let's get into these, Be It action 

items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted 

action items can we take 

away from your convo with Renee Bauer? The biggest thing she talked about was 

knowing your money. Which is like a hundred percent what we talk about 

with business.

So it's so funny. But personally that's very liberating, you know? And what's so crazy 

is like it was like the reverse of the conversation. She said most women come to [00:23:00] her and they're like, he took care of all the bills.

I actually 

have no idea about any of it. 

And that's 

how my ex and I was, I didn't

actually manage any of it. So

when we split, I was like, 

how much are we in debt? What? I had no idea. Right? I didn't know anything and it was like 

really crazy. 

And, and I totally 

agree that if I had, you know,

felt, 

if I had paid attention, You know, 

like 

I think, I 

don't think it would've been 

an issue for me to pay attention during the relationship of like, Hey, yeah, I just wanna, 

like, understand things.

Then it would've been a lot more freeing. But I never paid attention at all. Yeah. 

yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I really like that card of the, of the interview and I highly recommend listening to that part 

if you haven't, cuz it's really great. No matter if you're in a happy marriage or not. Like it's just so everyone, 

everyone should 

just be aware of what's going on, cuz then you know what your options are all the 

time. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, and I'm, I'm glad 

you shared 

about how we operate today because, [00:24:00] you 

know, it's

starkly different than how I used to do it. Today you and I actually have a monthly meeting for the company. But that incorporates, you know, pretty much our personal 

life too. And that allows us both to be understanding where we are and, and all the 

things.

So, yeah. 

Lesley Logan: And this takes us into one of the Be It action I love, which is like, treat yourself like you are the CFO of your own life. And I think that like, goes along with what you were saying about your last marriage. It's like, I think it's really easy if you don't like money or if money was like a bad thing that you're raised to just like, ignore the money 

and I don't want it 

cuz it's a problem and I don't want whatever.

But 

the actual 

reality is,

is like no matter if you're in a marriage, not in a marriage and a great one. 

The more we are aware of the 

finances in our life, the more options we have. 

And you know, you can, this 

could be the thing you Be It Till You See It at this season. It's like, I'm gonna be a CFO of my life.

What does a CFO do? Well, they know the numbers. Okay, what are my numbers? All right, what do 

I, what are my 

goals 

for my numbers to be what do I, 

want this money to be doing? And like, even if 

that's

just

that you have a donation

goal that you wanna make, like that would [00:25:00] be a really great thing for y'all to do.

So 

this was a fun interview. I really love Renee. 

It was just so 

great. And 

y'all should get her book. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, 

I think so too. And it's upcoming right now, so

I don't actually remember what

the title of it was. 

She Who 

Lesley Logan: Wins? 

Brad Crowell: Oh, the book is called 

She Who Wins?. ..(Lesley: Mm-hmm. And her podcast is too great. so there you go.)

Yeah. So we will, we will 

put the link for that in the show notes. And thanks 

so much 

for joining us. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I'm Lesley 

Logan. 

Brad Crowell: And I'm Brad 

Crowell. 

Lesley Logan: We 

are so grateful 

for you. This is so 

much fun. Oh my gosh, we're almost 

about hit two years with this podcast. I feel like we're like a day or two away, so we'll probably have to do that in FYF. But thank you for being you and we wanna know how you use these tips in your life tag the Be IT Pod, tag Renee Bauer,

and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell: Bye for now.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. [00:26:00] Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Be It Till You See it is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

It is produced and edited by the Epic team at Dysenio. Our 

theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

This episode delves into the inspiring journey of Renee Bauer, a renowned divorce attorney turned women's empowerment advocate. It explores how Renee leverages her personal experiences and professional expertise to empower women to make decisions free from fear. Expect insights on reclaiming self-worth, understanding finances, and navigating life post-divorce.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How Renee’s work shifted to women’s empowerment space. 
• Overcoming divorce shame and embarrassment. 
• How to make decisions that aren’t based on fears. 
• How toxic relationships can bring out the worst version of ourselves. 
• Showing up for yourself and finding a positive tribe of people. 
• She Who Wins podcast and Renee’s upcoming book. 
• How to take control of your money and be the CFO of your life. 

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Renee on IG
• Ms. Renee Bauer Website
• Listen to the She Who Wins Podcast
• Listen to the Be It Till You See It podcast Amy Ledin Episode 5: How to Take Fast Action Against Limiting Beliefs
• Menopocalypse by Amanda Thebe

Guest Bio:

Renee is an award winning divorce attorney and Founder of Happy Even After Family Law. She is also a multi 7-figure entrepreneur and loves helping other women recognize their own self-worth, make big, bold decisions and build a business that gives them the financial freedom to follow their heart.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Renee Bauer: [00:00:00] If I ask a client, like, if this was your daughter's relationship, what would you tell her? And they'll say, well, I tell her to leave. Well, why is that not good enough for you? Like, why is it different for her? And guess what? She's watching you. And if she's, if she sees you not leaving and sees that maybe her dad or or her stepdad isn't treating you right, like what does she take from that, 

Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt, my friend, my friends.

Action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a [00:01:00] perfect. Let's get started.

All right. Loves, how are you? Welcome back to the Beat Till seat interview with an amazing guest. Um, I am so thrilled to have this one on. I've actually been on her podcast. She who wins and she's such a powerhouse. And here's what I know. I know that there are divine appointments and everything.

Like we, uh, we met by putting ourselves into a room and it was a very small in-person event that was going on. And there was this networking. Part that was supposed to happen and as an introvert that I was, I just wanted to hang up my friend Lauren and like just go have a drink. But the energy in the group was so good that we decided to stay for the networking part, which was like this, you sit and the one row of chairs in front of you just kept moving.

So you had like these two or three minutes per, per person to talk to. So it's a little overwhelming for the introvert that I am. And there's like 20 people that we met like within an hour. It was chaos and crazy. But when I, this woman sat down in front of me, first of all, I was so excited to [00:02:00] finally meet her because I'd been hearing her amazing advice in the room and I was like, I gotta know this woman.

And then when she asked me for some help, I was like, Ugh. Cuz I had this like moment of like imposter syndrome. But like I just was like, this woman is so amazing, she's so powerful. Like, and then she asked a question and I was like, oh, I have an answer to that. And it was so hilarious because she had actually just met.

The person I suggested that she connect with. However, um, it just goes to show that that person got double votes that she needs to connect with her. And also, um, never, never put yourself into a position where you actually are putting people up on pedestals when you haven't actually met them. Because who you are is valuable and what you have to offer is very uniquely different than what the person you're in front of has to offer.

And so together we can actually have these amazing, crazy moments where we come together and we're stronger than we ever we're on our own. And so we actually dive into this, uh, to that type of topic in this interview. So, Renee Bauer, she's incredible. You're gonna hear her story. You're gonna hear who she is, what she does, what she's up to next, which I think is really important cuz sometimes I think, [00:03:00] um, when I bring on guests, you can just hear what they are at the top of their game, but also as they're transitioning into another thing.

You know, she's this powerful, amazing person, but she's starting something new and there's uncertainty there and there's, there's newness there. And so I'm, I'm really excited for hear. Tons of amazing advice and also hear from someone who is like changing what they're up to these days and how that's working for them.

And so it's exciting and you're gonna get a lot out of this. Let me know how you feel about this podcast by leaving us a review. Give us some stars. You can do that on Spotify, apple, or ever listen to podcasts. And here is Renee.

All right, be it babe. I am really thrilled finally, to bring this amazing woman on the Be It pod. I have met her, gosh, it's probably almost six months ago now, uh, that we're recording this, so maybe even longer by the time you hear this. But she was just such a powerhouse, and when I heard what she does for women and what she does on this planet, I was like, I have to have her on.

So Renee Bauer, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what 

Renee Bauer: you rock at? Thank you, Leslie. [00:04:00] I'm so pumped to be here. I am a divorce lawyer. I've been doing it for 20 years, but I noticed in that journey that the relationship was kind of a, was what happened after other things were going on in a woman's life.

And really what was happening is women were struggling with issues of worthiness, of understanding money. Of understanding that they were capable of the love and the life and the job that they want. So my work has since shifted to more of this woman's empowerment space of hosting live events and a podcast.

And I have a book coming out in 2023 all about that. So it's, you know, the work is, is is part divorce. That's what I, my trade is, but my love and purpose is really helping women just see what they're capable of and what they can inspire 

Lesley Logan: to. You know, okay. There's so much to unpack and love there because, um, you could have, you could have definitely just stayed, like, just had that one thing just been like, just rocking one thing, amazing divorce attorney, but you [00:05:00] saw that there's another problem and like, if we could solve this problem, it might put you out of a job or it might actually help people.

Um, it will help women realize that no matter what happens in their relationship, they are an amazing person. That like, that, like that isn't a reflection, uh, it doesn't have a reflection of them and their worthiness. 

Renee Bauer: Yeah. And you know, so, uh, what I saw over the years is that women who would come into my office and they would sit across from me and they would ask questions like, how do you know?

Or I would see them, Describe these really horrific, toxic relationships, or they knew that their relationship had come to completion because it was just fine and that wasn't good enough. But they still didn't make that decision to leave the relationship because they were scared. And a lot of times it was fear around money.

It was a lack of control of money. And I said, well, that's, that's the issue here. It. Is, it's, it's not that the relationship, it's, you know, whether you stay or go, but it's, they're choosing, they know the relationship has come to completion, but they haven't chose themselves yet because they're so [00:06:00] afraid.

And that's the root of really what, what the work that I do and the problem that I saw and I hope to help people 

Lesley Logan: work through. Oh yeah. I think, um, I can, I wasn't married to the person I was with before Brad, but it was like that. And I remember driving on the freeway and like, In traffic and just like praying to God that like he would break us up because I really didn't know how to break up and I also didn't know what I would do once we were broken up.

Cuz I was like, I, I don't have a place to live once we break all these things. Right. And, uh, living in la like there's a really expensive leap to make. It's like, oh, I'm gonna go from like having a house that I like paid f partially for, but not enough to like, pay for an apartment of any size. Size. And so, um, so I, I can relate to those women so much and I'll, and I'll never forget I had this client.

And, uh, she, she's a woman of a, of a certain age and a certain amount of wealth from her previous. She married well the first time, and she's asked me how it was going. [00:07:00] I said, oh, it's, it's nice. And she said, honey wallpaper's nice. And she said, look, you don't have to marry for love the first time you can marry for money.

But do not just be in a nice relationship. 

Renee Bauer: I love that. I, you know what? I had the same story of that you had of driving, I was driving in my minch green Volvo, s u v with the double videos on the headrest with, with my infant son in the backseat. And I had this moment where it was like, okay, now that I have my son, I have everything I need to be happy.

Like now I look back and I think of that thought. I was like, whoa. Like what? You know, girl, there, there's some work to do there. But I stayed in that relationship for. Two years because I thought, well, my son would bring me happiness. Not the case yet for a minute, but you know, not long term. And I had just started my law firm.

I had maybe five clients I could count on one hand, you know, the number of people I represented. Rented and the money that was not flowing in, and I stayed partially because I was afraid of living on my own, having to support myself. I didn't know [00:08:00] how I was going to, even though I had a law degree, I was a lawyer.

I didn't have that, that steady job because I was self-employed and I stayed. Yeah. And so I've like, I've been there, you know, and I see it so many times with women too, who feel so stuck because of a situation they find themselves in. But that doesn't have to be the only situation. Like there are, there are things that they.

Can do in order to get out of that situation because being just fine. Am I ex He's a great guy. He was a great dad. Like there was nothing wrong. It was, it was wallpaper, 

Lesley Logan: right? I'm, it's just, I've, I've never forgotten that entire, like conversation cuz I'm, when, whenever I have clients like, oh, it's nice.

I'm like, wallpaper's nice. Like, I'll never forget that. Like, there's gonna be moments where your relationship is like in different stages, but, um, just if the, if the high point is nice then, so I, I love that you have that story as well, because I think it makes it even easier for you to be relatable not only to your clients, but to the women that you're trying to serve right now.

And what are some things that you did to [00:09:00] kind of like ready yourself to leave him and also like to get yourself to the point where you're like, I can teach other people how they're worthy no matter what's going on. 

Renee Bauer: Yeah, so two, two different questions and answers, but one, getting ready to leave. I just got to the point where I was so unhappy and I had gone to a doctor, just a regular checkup, and the doctor was like, how are things going?

You're a new mom. And I remember saying like, you know, doc, I'm not happy. And she was like, you want me to prescribe a prescription for you? And I was like, wait a second. I'm not depressed, I'm not happy. And there's a difference. And that's when I think everything started to fall into place. And it was like, you know what?

There's nothing wrong with this relationship, but I can't see myself li living a fulfilled life, staying in it and taking that leap and trusting that it was all going to work out. And I tell my clients that all the time. It's sometimes you have to take the leap and let everything work itself out the way it will, even though you're scared, even though you don't know what the other side's gonna look like, even though [00:10:00] you don't know where you're gonna live.

Like you just have to decide, okay, I'm gonna take the smallest little action forward in order to at least start the momentum. And that's what I did. It was like the smallest step. And it was like, all right, I file. I don't know what's gonna happen next. Okay, now I move out. Now I don't know what's gonna happen after that.

And it was like just kept taking little hard, uncomfortable, scary action. Friends, and you know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. That year was hard. Like it was, it was, I was my, the worst version of myself. I was devastated. I had so much shame around it. I didn't have friends because I wasn't living in the state that I grew up in, but it's like, okay, I ca I know in my heart.

This is still the right decision. Mm-hmm. Because even though it's a hard one, it's still the right one for me, you know? And here I am, all of these, let's see, my son's 17 now, so 15 years later, I'm so grateful I made that decision and he, we've both moved on, we're both remarried. Um, he's, my ex is with I think the per perfect person for him.

I was not it, you know, I met with [00:11:00] my match and I'm so grateful that. I was able to kind of push through that hard when I think so many women don't want to feel that discomfort and so that they, they stay because what they know is better than what they don't know. 

Lesley Logan: Oh, yeah. I, I couldn't agree more. And I, I mean, like, I definitely, as I like hear your story, what I, what I hear so much is like, because of that situation, it really makes you the most prepared to do what you're doing right now.

Like if you had, uh, if you had stayed in that relationship like. It doesn't sound like it was a horrible one. You just weren't happy and like you definitely would've ended up affecting other things in your life. But also if you'd never been married to that person, like your life, be totally different and you wouldn't be able to help.

You could be the same lawyer with the same, even like a similar child situation, but like you wouldn't actually be able to relate to women the way that you're doing it and also empower them the way you are going to they, the way you are now. 

Renee Bauer: I don't think I became a really good divorce lawyer until I got through that and I have.

So in between all of that, I got married a second [00:12:00] time, like so I even have that little and that second husband. That relationship lasted from beginning to end, like a year and a half. I mean, we're talking, meeting, marriage, divorce, and that short of time. So ta pile the shame on there and the embarrassment on, but that journey.

Would not, you know, having gone through that, like I can connect with clients and other women who are saying, um, you know, I'm so scared I get it. Like I was too. Like I understand the fear around money and you can still work through it. So before I, you know, I was a decent lawyer, but having that pain and experiencing the emotional rollercoaster of going through that, I think changed everything about how I practiced and, and represented my clients.

Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, you can see them and, and also you can understand that that, and you said the word like it's shame. Like there is so much shame whether you go through a divorce or thinking of going through a divorce, you go through another one. My mom, um, she's gone through too, and I can tell that the shame that she still carries around that.

Um, what are some things that you [00:13:00] help you helped yourself or help other clients do to deal with that shame part? Because that I think can be the one that changes your life the most. Like that could keep you from doing anything else after a divorce. I love this question 

Renee Bauer: so much because it wasn't until I started actually speaking out and speaking, going on a podcast like this and talking about my two divorces that I overcame the shame.

So prior to that, I was like going into work and, and doing all of the things. I'd come home and still be kind of living in this world of like, I was embarrassed. I didn't wanna talk about it. I didn't wanna share any of my personal story with my colleagues or like other lawyers or let anyone know about it.

But I had gone on a friend's podcast and she started, she, she said, I'm gonna interview you. I'll bring sushi over. We'll have a couple martinis. It'll be all good. So she did that. I'm like, Ooh, sushi. Okay, I'm, I'm in. We poured the martini. She clipped on the mic and she. Started asking me about my divorce and maybe I was a little buzzed, but I actually started answering [00:14:00] really honestly.

And when that episode came out, people had reached out to me to say like, Hey, that was my story too. Thank you for speaking so vulnerably about it. And that's when I realized I need to talk about this and not be ashamed about it. And so now, now it's like, it's, it's second nature to just, to be like, yeah, I'm divorced twice, so what?

You know? And so it was, it was sharing it, and I think so often, People don't wanna share that. And they're almost like, apologize. It's like, you know, the whisper like, oh, I'm divorced, or I'm twice divorced. And it's like, just own it. Be like, you know what? I, I was in two relationships that didn't work out and I made the, the brave decision to leave that because I wanted more from our family, for us, for our kids.

And you know that that's okay. You know, 

Lesley Logan: I wanna highlight that because there are many women listen to this podcast. We have a few good men and then we have mostly women and I. I wanna highlight that you said you made the brave decision to leave. I think, um, though, that if we could actually change the stigma around divorce and we could [00:15:00] actually focus on, um, that you may, that it's brave and courageous to, you know, Acknowledge that this is not the right relationship for either person, then I actually think there'd be more happiness in this world, and also children raised in households where they can see that confidence comes from like, choosing yourself and that you can choose yourself.

Um, I, I, I actually think it would be way different than people like trying to stick it out for longer and or some people are in relationships, unfortunately, where there is. Trauma happening and things like that, and like that, that there's a shame around divorce. So they'd rather stay in the thing. And it's like if we could just empower people that it's actually very brave to choose, you know, to help both people have an opportunity to have love and 

Renee Bauer: happiness.

Yeah, and I, and I think if people are being really honest, if they're in that or you're on the cusp of divorce, that relationship's not happy. Neither of you are happy. Because you are not gonna have one person who's totally happy and the other one who's miserable, like something, the dynamic it, it whatever is [00:16:00] happening there.

The reality of it is both of you are probably in this kind of place of just being stuck or just going through the motions of it. And it breaks my heart that like I have friends who are in relationships or marriages that are not great and they're not happy. And I'll say to them, well, you have a choice.

And they'll be like, no, I don't. Like, I have three kids. So. Like that isn't the reason to stay in something where you wake up every day and you, you dislike, and I, I don't wanna say the word hate, but for some people it's hate, dislike, or resent. Your your spouse. And if you know, I, I like to say if when your kids go off to college, how do you feel about spending time with your spouse?

And usually if the answer is like, oh God no. Like, I don't know what we're gonna do, well that tells you that something needs to be fixed, whether you work on it as a couple, which if that's possible, then the absolutely do that. Or you make the decision to change the situation. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, I think that that's what a, a great way to picture things, cuz that can really help you.

And also, like, I love that, you know, [00:17:00] you people we're not here saying like, divorce is the answer. You can't, there are some relationship that absolutely can be worked on, but ob obviously both parties have to want to, to do that. And then action speaks louder than, than the words that are in those things.

So, so to go back to like teaching people worthiness and like also, you know, Also overcoming the fear of that uncertainty. What are, what are some things that, um, that women can do, and especially in if, if that's, if this is where they're like thinking of going or where maybe they're at right now as I listen to this.

Renee Bauer: Yeah. And so I'm bringing this to a, a very strategic, um, to do what they can do because what I have found is that most women have this fear around money, and often they, they'll come into me and they'll say, I wasn't the one who paid the bills, or All the money got deposited into a joint account. I don't know what's going on.

So this is a really practical strategy that they can just start to really educate themselves and be informed about what's happening in their marital finances. Really start to see what's [00:18:00] coming in, what's going out, what do the bills look like, um, look at retirement statements. Make sure that you have your own credit card.

Set up a separate bank account if all you have is a joint account. So like, really start to do things where you feel empowered from a financial perspective, because so many women feel like they're, they're gonna stay stuck because of the money, you know? Mm-hmm. Like we talked about. Mm-hmm. They're not, they're not gonna have enough, but if they start to take control of that, then they can.

Start to make decisions that aren't based on fear, but really are aligned with what they know is true. So it's really start to get a handle on the money, and that's like start looking through bank statements and credit card statements and investment statements so you can really understand what there is.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, I think that that's really, we, um, at our house, we call it the sahu, the State of the Financial Union. And once a month, and I hate the meeting, I really do, but I also don't wanna not be at the meeting because like, it didn't make me feel good to not know what's going on. So we once a month sit down and we know how much money is the next month supposed to bring in, how much are we?

And like it's a little bit [00:19:00] business and a little bit personal because obviously we work for ourselves. So if the business doesn't make its money, we don't make our money. So we actually sit through and go, okay, yes, we expect all these members to stay on. We expect, oh, I expect these ones to leave. Oh, we have these events coming up.

We can expect to make this much. Okay. Every, all the, there's no stress on payroll, there's no stress on this. And then, um, while Brad does pay our bills, well my sister actually works for us and she like sends all the money around. I'm on all the, I get all the emails. This has been paid, this has been paid, this has been paid.

So like I am involved in knowing where things are at. And then my husband and I actually never joined our, uh, bank accounts. We've always had 'em separate. Yeah. Just kind of made sense cuz he had his own business at the time and I had my own. And it allows, It allows me to feel like I don't ever have to a, not that he, he would ever ask me to, but I don't ask.

I don't ever feel like I have to ask to buy a cent something if I want something. Yeah. It's like I have my own money, I have my own credit card. You know, as long as I can be responsible with all that, then I can know I'm good with my things. I, you know 

Renee Bauer: what? And that's such a hot button [00:20:00] topic, because I like, I posted something on TikTok and it went a little nutty and people were coming at from all different angles.

I agree with you. I, there's nothing wrong with keeping things separate and my husband and I too, we all have separate stuff and we have a joint bank account that really sits there kind of dormant. We don't use it because everything, we're kind of operating from our separate. That doesn't mean you're setting yourself up or getting prepared for divorce.

It just means that you have some financial independence. And having that state of the union is so important because even though things are separate, you come together and you look at the full picture. So people get really triggered by that, and they think like, well, if you're, you're keeping things separate, then that means your relationship isn't totally unified.

And I disagree. Yeah. I think that, 

Lesley Logan: yeah, I couldn't, I, I agree. And I, you know, TikTok is a whole other world of Oh, it certainly 

Renee Bauer: is. I just, it's such a weird place, but 

Lesley Logan: like, Almost the people who are saying that, I feel like there's more fear on, on their end, like that you're almost highlighting something, um, that they're, [00:21:00] uh, unwilling to acknowledge.

But it's like your relationship can be hot and connected and it doesn't have to be by a bank account. Like that's what tell you you're having a great relationship. So, um, I love, I love that tool. Um, when it, when when women are, um, obviously they're spare around money. Do, what other fears have you seen that keep them from maybe making this decision or also they know that they make the decision, but like making the next steps so that they can thrive On the other side?

Being 

Renee Bauer: alone, that's always a big one. Um, figuring out, so being alone and having to figure out like, How are you cutting the lawn? I mean, that's one of my favorite stories is like one of my first weekends after divorce, it was maybe a few weeks had gone by and I looked out in my lawn and they were like weeds all over the place.

I'm like, ah, shit. Like I need to handle this. And I went out with a weed whacker and weed whacked a half acre, and it was a disaster. And then on Monday I went and hired someone. But it was like doing simple things like [00:22:00] that that you never had to think about. And people think like they're. Overwhelmed, like, how am I going to have the, the driveway plowed?

And, and, and there's solutions to all of that. So you don't put your happiness online just because you're worried about the, the shrubs needing pruning. Mm-hmm. So that's, you know, that's one of the things. And then often the kids, people are afraid of messing up their kids. And I, what I say to them is, conflict causes problems and it causes, um, Con consequences in, you know, in kids, what kids are seeing and how they're being raised.

It's not, it's not the divorce, it's the conflict. Mm-hmm. So, being in a house where there's a ton of conflict and a ton of fighting, they're seeing that now you're normalizing what, what a relationship looks like to them. And let me tell you, they're gonna go on and make those same mistakes and not have a healthy relationship because they're mirroring what the, what they grew up in rather than watching.

To their parents, maybe live separately, but also live in a, in a happy environment. And [00:23:00] I know that that's kind of black and white and there's a whole lot of in between there with levels of conflict, even when you're divorced. But often people think that the divorce itself is going to screw kids up, and it's just not, it's not true.

Yeah, I think, 

Lesley Logan: I think you're right. I think, um, you know, there's that whole like childhood divorced kids, like divorced homes like from the eighties and nineties. And I think that if you really look at it, it was the way that conflict was really. Put through with divorces, like there's conflict getting to the divorce, and then the divorces are messy and ugly.

And, and so like, the kids are not, it's not the divorce, it's the messy and ugliness that they're seeing from their parents who, the parents say they love them, but that like, they're like, it's, but they're, it's just, it's all a hot mess. So I, I agree. I think, um, One of our guests, Amy Ledin, she'd said, um, actions are caught not taught.

And if you are wanting your kids to go open a world where they get to have choice, they get to feel happy. 

inute

---

Lesley Logan: They get to feel like they have potential and possibility in this world and love, but you're raised 'em a household [00:24:00] where like they can clearly see that the two adults do not have that kind of passion for each other, or love for each other, or respect for each other.

They're seeing that they're seeing those actions and that that is going to be something that. They either resent you for or they think is normal, as you say, that normalizes it, and then that's how their relationships go. 

Renee Bauer: Yeah. Like, and you think about, like, I have a, a son and three stepkids. I want them to be happy.

And if that means walking away from a relationship that isn't good and, and, and filing for a divorce or, or leaving that, then so be it. If they're happy and rather than staying, you know, and it's like, It's what do you want for them? And if you can't, like if, if you, if I ask a client, like, if this was your daughter's relationship, what would you tell her?

And they'll say, well, I tell her to leave. Well, why is that not good enough for you? Like, why is it different for her? And guess what? She's watching you. And if she's, if she sees you not leaving and sees that maybe her dad or or her stepdad isn't [00:25:00] treating you right, like what does she take from that? You know?

Mm-hmm. Just, it's, it's hard though. It's hard, you know? It's easy for, for someone to listen, be like, yeah, but you don't get it. It, it's, you know, there's so many, of course it is hard, like there are so many factors and it's not a simple process to walk away and there's so much untangling and uncoupling, but it's still worth it.

Yeah. If you're living in a bad relationship or a stagnant, or there isn't love, Yeah, it's worth it. You're 

Lesley Logan: worth it. I, I love that you, and thank you for your knowledge and that I, like, if you're listening to this and you're like, you guys, it's like, it's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna be easy. It's not easy.

Even if you, if the, if it's a conscious uncoupling, like yeah, it's still not easy. Um, because that, that's the end of a chapter. That's end of a story. It's end of a book and like, you know, there's a lot of unraveling to do there. But, um, I, I will stand by you and like, you know, we, it is so much more important.

On the other side of it, and now however long that takes you, like, you know, it's, it doesn't have to be tomorrow that you make this decision. [00:26:00] You can prepare and ready yourself to ready up. But like I do think that being honest with yourself about what you deserve in this world, I. You know, and I, I believe that everyone has this purpose, as I'm sure you do, and like there's lives that they can change and there's people that they can love.

And if you are not in a place where you feel loved or feel happy or feel respected, you can't show up in the world No. And give people 

Renee Bauer: anything. No. When I was in that second bad marriage, and that one was really toxic, I was an awful boss. I was an awful lawyer. I was an, I was, uh, not a very good or present parent.

I wasn't a good friend. Like I was just, I, I was, I was my worst version. Like I could not possibly shine light on anyone else because I was sitting in so much darkness. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Um, How do you prepare people to go through the steps of a divorce? Like, are there things that they, that we should, that we, I'm not gonna include myself.

I'm doing great, but are there things that people can, [00:27:00] um, can, like, think about and consider? Because obviously there's the filing, but then like, you know, depending on what state you live, and it could be months long, there's all these things. So like what are some things like emotionally though that they could, we could think about to, to, to go through that process?

Renee Bauer: Uh, find, find your tribe. Find a support system. Um, that may not include friends and family. So those people who are around you now, they're really well intentioned, but they may not be the best person to go to. So find a community of people, and there's so many of them out there in, in this world, and pri like, I have a private Facebook group for divorced women, but find a really positive tribe of people who get what you're going through.

Um, so you don't feel so alone in it. And the other thing is make sure it, you know, start to put the steps in place to educate yourself and, um, like I had mentioned, start gathering financial documents. Meet with a couple lawyers. Don't just go to a person who's someone recommended. Uh, go and have a couple consultations, even if they're paid.

And trust your gut. Like, who, [00:28:00] how do you feel about this person? Can you work with them, um, and make sure you're making a decision based on what. What they offer, like is it aligned with how you wanna go through the process? Um, because a lot of times people will hire someone because they heard through the grapevine, someone's cousin's uncle, use this person.

They had a good experience. Well, they might not be the right person for you. So just like, keep checking in with your gut. And like having some grace in recognizing it's going to be really hard. Just bring yourself back to center to remind yourself this is still the right decision, even if it's hard. And you get that right support around you outside of the court, inside the court, um, and everything in between.

And just keep like your eye on the prize and recognizing like, this is just a moment. It's a moment. It might last a while, it might last a year, but it's a moment and there will be a time when you'll start to feel really, really good about your decision. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I, I love that you said find a tribe. I think, um, because it might not be your friends and family, cuz there's, [00:29:00] it's like telling a coworker you're gonna leave a job.

Even that's like, they're gonna be like, oh, should you be doing that? Well, what about your vacation? Yeah. What about this? And it's, and they're projecting their fear of for themselves about the change in the life that you leaving is going to make. And so they might not be the best people to, to talk to cuz they may, unfortunately, with all the love in the world, say the wrong thing.

And, and then you're gonna feel more alone and more like you're doing the wrong thing. Yeah. Or more that you're crazy. And so I, I do think it's important to find people who, who can't do that. And also, you know, when I left my ex, when I had met him, I had just moved to LA so all of my friends were his friends.

The other friends I had were like clo like acquaintances from work, but like they were all his friends. So when we, when I, when I left, like I lost everything, all the friends house, and then I totaled my car leaving. So that was its own thing. So I was like, okay, Jesus, take the wheel. Just take whatever, whatever I'm not supposed to have, just get rid of it all cuz I don't really wanna, I don't wanna [00:30:00] go through this anymore.

And, um, But I was so grateful cuz I had this one friend who was introduced to me. That person did not, I did not, I only met her one time while I was with him, so she had no idea who I was then. So we just became these like best friends for a summer and she got me to the other side of that whole transition.

Um, and she's also one that introduced me to Brad. So it was like a very interesting. Interesting person to have in my life, but I don't think, um, it would've been, I would've felt the same and come out the same and look back 10 years later and go, that was the fucking best thing I ever went through. Thank goodness I went through that.

Renee Bauer: Yeah, I, you know, for me it was, um, I had the same thing because all, none of all of my friends were my ex's friends, so I really had like maybe one or two people in the state and I wasn't super close to them. I decide to sign up for yoga. I'm like, I'm gonna do yoga and I'm gonna show up and, and let me tell you, every time I thought to myself, every time I don't have my son when I'm miserable and when I'm like, so sad, I'm gonna go to yoga because I'm gonna fill that time.

I was like putting a bandaid over it. [00:31:00] But I started to enjoy it. I started to actually get to know the community of women who went there. Then I started to do things with them outside of the studio, and I showed up even when I didn't want to. Like there were, there was a Saturday morning, I woke up. I was like sitting there over my coffee crying.

I did not wanna go. I'm like, You're either gonna sit here all day and feel bad for yourself, or you gonna put some leggings on and you're gonna go to yoga and you'll probably feel better at the end. So it was like I kept forcing myself to do those things even though I didn't want to. And it made all the difference because they really became a, a group of friends during that time that I needed to, to get, get me outside of my own head out of my house.

You know? So, and, and I think that's the one thing too, is just like make force yourself to put yourself in new surroundings with new people. Well, and as you're saying 

Lesley Logan: that, what I like I basically heard is like you're kinda like being at till you see, you're putting yourself into a space. Yeah. Where you could be the woman you wanted to be without all that negativity going on.

And then you can meet people and they would get to know the Renee that you wanted people to know. And [00:32:00] so there was like this really be like, you had this like safe haven, this island. And I think like, you know, there. No matter how much money or little money you have in every community, there are community classes, there are donation only classes.

There's just different things, and so, you know, try to find. Different ways that you can have a, a new tribe to meet new people and put yourself And I know for the introverts I know, I hear you. I know 

Renee Bauer: I'm an introvert. Yeah. So I like, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: The good news is, is you don't have to talk to people during class.

It's just before and after. Yeah. Um, okay. I wanna talk about what you're doing now because, um, I feel like, uh, like. When you transition to something new, and it's not like you're leaving what you're doing, but you're adding this new amazing thing. There is another element of like being, until you see it like you are the top of your game over here and now you're like starting this whole thing over here.

And so how has that been going? What are you ex the most excited about right now? 

Renee Bauer: I love that, that, um, so, you know, imposter syndrome is a real thing and you could look at [00:33:00] someone and be like, oh, they're doing all the things and they're successful and it still sneaks in. So yeah, it's. It's le it's starting a new thing, a new company, and you start from the ground.

And it's exciting though. It's like filled with possibility. Um, I don't, you know, doing it without expectation attached to it is kind of amazing too. It should be like, I'm gonna just follow what feels really good and what feels aligned and see where it brings me. So the She Who Wins, uh, summit is a live event that I created last year.

Didn't know who was gonna show up. Wasn't even sure. Like I thought that I was gonna have to like, beg people to come and fill the seats. And we ended up selling out. Um, and we're doing it again in 2023 on April 29th at Mohegan Sun Casinos. So, um, it's all about coming together and being in the room together because some of the most impactful things that I've ever done is when I put myself in the room mm-hmm.

And connected with other women. Women who are doing really awesome things and like authentically make, I mean, look at how you and [00:34:00] I met. Is we connected by putting ourselves in the room? Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, it's amazing, like what you can learn from other people and that's, that was the inspiration behind it is like, let's hear from people who are doing incredible things.

Let's bring them all together. Let's have some fun. It's not just education, it's some entertainment. It's, you know, getting up in some movement and be inspired and motivated, but also walk away with some actionable items that you can immediately implement in your life. 

Lesley Logan: I love this. I couldn't agree more and, and.

You the, we were in a, in a, an awesome small. And what was so fun about our in-person is that I was, when you asked who you I, who you wanted, like we wanted more amazing women in your life. And I was like, oh, can you talk to Karine? Which Kareem was on our show, um, in the beginning. And you're like, I just met Karine.

And so fu what's a really crazy and amazing is when you do put yourself in amazing spaces, you start to meet. People who know similar people and you end up very quickly in a really awesome group of people with shared, shared experiences, shared values, shared wants and [00:35:00] dreams, and then you start to propel each other forward.

And the only reason I met Kareen is cuz I put myself in another room that I really didn't wanna go to. I almost like got sold my ticket. I was like, I don't really need to go to this thing. And I went Any. Anyways, and it was the best, the best thing it could have ever. The, the, the reason we're listening to this podcast is because of these rooms that I put myself in, where I was like, I got myself into place where I'm like, oh, I could do that.

Oh, this is how I could do it. And I could, um, I could see those things. And too often we, we wait until we're ready or until the stars align or tell. Everything is figured out before we put ourself in a space where we would say, I don't know how to do this thing. And like the rooms that we have, we've met in, it's like, I have this problem and I don't know how to solve it.

And that is so much vulnerability. And immediately you have connection with other people, 

Renee Bauer: and I think women are afraid in general to ask for help. And, you know, we, we take all of this stuff on and we try to balance it all. And we, we, we think that we can figure it out on ourselves. We don't want to burden other people.

And there's so many [00:36:00] amazing people who want to help. And it's like, it's incredible when like, like I've learned to ask for help for things and. When I reach out to someone and be like, Hey, I need help with something, I immediately, the response is like, oh yeah. Like absolutely I can, I can send you this, or I can make this introduction like we want.

So when you're surrounding yourselves with people who genuinely want to help you, like it's amazing because you never feel alone in this journey. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, I, I, I wish we, um, I would love to figure out what it is that we were taught when we were younger. Like cuz all, obviously we all got a message that, that we're not supposed to ask for help cuz it's gonna look like we don't, like we are, don't know what we're doing.

Um, but it is, it is so true. Like the people I find that. All of my friends want, have, want to help. They want, like anyone you'll meet wants to be part of whatever you're creating. People want to be supportive, but we are so, we are like, I gotta do it all on my own. Like the be like, it doesn't matter unless I did it myself.

Renee Bauer: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I have, I have like a story of that trying to get into college, get into [00:37:00] law school, and it was someone who knew someone who could help me get into the school. I'm like, no, I don't want the introduction. I'm gonna do it on my. Oh, you know, and then when the rejection rolled in, I was like, oh shit.

You know, maybe I should have asked for the help. But yeah, I don't know where it comes from, but that's how, that's how I always felt. It was like, I'm not strong enough, or it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't matter or it's not an achievement. Yeah. If I have to actually ask someone to assist me. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah, it's, um, yeah, that's just, it's, it's so funny.

So ladies, everything you need to hear is like, ask for help because people actually wanna help you. And also it does, it's not a reflection on you that you like, no one is like, oh, that person she asked for help. Yeah. Yeah. You know, 

Renee Bauer: and you know what, and being so vulnerable about it too. Like now I'll just be like, I have a problem and here's what it is.

And like, I don't care. Like, it doesn't mean that, oh, she's not as successful because she has a problem with this thing and needs, needs help. Like, no, let's not. I think that's something that, that we, cause if someone comes to me and says, Hey, I have something, can you help me with it? I don't [00:38:00] look at them and be like, huh, who are they?

Like they're not, you know, they're not a successful person cuz they're asking, so why are we doing that to ourselves? 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. I think the more we can start to treat ourselves the way we treat other people in all ways, I think we'll actually get a lot farther. So you're writing a book. Um, has that been a fun process?

Is it been an enjoyable process? Is it like a whole new experience? Like what's it, what's it been 

Renee Bauer: like? Um, so I'm a writer before I am anything else? I've been writing for a really long time, just. Of even being a kid. So that was, uh, that was such a joyful process. I mean, that was, and as I started to write, I, you know, that was a journey too.

It's kind of interesting cause I wrote a number of chapters and I looked back at it and I'm like, this is very surface level. It's not, uh, it's not deep enough. And I said, you know, in order to like really connect, I'm like, I think I need to like, kind of pour my heart and soul and vulnerability onto these pages.

And I scrapped those chapters and said, let me start again. And let me talk about things that I've never shared before. [00:39:00] Um, so it was almost like a healing session for me cuz I thought there were things that came up that I thought were completely healed. And I'm like, oh, body image issues and weight issues and stuff like that.

And all of a sudden I'm bringing up memories as I'm writing from, like when I was a kid, I'm like, where the hell did that come from? Like, I thought that that was all tucked away and dealt with. So the writing journey has been, Absolutely beautiful. The book comes out on September 5th, 2023 by Iran Publishing.

Um, I'm so excited to share it with the world because it just, it like is so near and dear to, to me and 

Lesley Logan: oh my gosh, I can't wait for it to come out. We'll have to make sure our peeps, um, all know it's coming out because, um, it's. You're the, when you one, if you love writing, then like it's going to come across on the page.

But also to be so vulnerable and to actually go deep, that is going to change it. Cuz so many books I've, I've read, I'm like, well this is great. Yeah, this is nice, this is good wallpaper. Um, but 

Renee Bauer: like, we don't want wall. But I find that the 

Lesley Logan: books that like I talk about so much are the [00:40:00] ones where I can tell the author shared in such a vulnerable way that I'm like, I can see myself, I can feel myself, I can understand it, you know, so, um, a, a recent book I read was Meta Apocalypse, and I wanna get her on the show, but like, she was so vulnerable about her story and her journey of perimenopause that I like, I actually felt like I could be in the, like, I could actually understand what she was talking about in a way I could feel it in my body and like, You know, that's another thing that I think we can, can be so hard.

It's like, I don't wanna share everything because then people will know all the things. So it's like most people have gone through what you're going through and they just wanna feel seen. So if you actually just share all those dark, dirty stories that you've, you've put those labels on that are actually just experiences that you had that made you who you are, you'll have more people who are like, oh my gosh, like you've, no, you've made me feel so seen.

I get you, you know? Yeah. 

Renee Bauer: Yeah. Yeah. And that, and that was the, the reason behind it. That was the reason behind the stories. Cuz the book isn't about me, it's just, it's moments, it's stories, it's just, uh, that tie into what we're talking about in that chapter. But it's [00:41:00] not my life story. I'm not telling you my journey from childhood to adulthood, but it's these moments that were so difficult for me and caused so much pain.

Or joy moments of joy too, and laughter and stupidity. Um, stories and like some stupid things that I've done that I've been so embarrassed about. And it's like, it's the humanity of it. Mm-hmm. So if someone can read that and say, oh, I had, I didn't have that experience, but I had that similar feeling and I experienced something that, you know, was my own version of it, then, you know, I, I did my job as a writer.

Yeah. And, and ultimately that's just it. I wanna move people emotionally. 

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Ugh. Well, I can't wait to announce, um, to our peeps when your book is ready to be purchased and all of those things. Um, Renee, we're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna find out how people can find you, follow you, work with you, and you'll be at action Night at school.

Okay, Renee, where do you like to hang out? We know TikTok, but what are your handles? 

Renee Bauer: I, I actually don't like TikTok, so don't go over there. Um, Instagram's kind of my favorite, favorite place. It's at Ms. Renee Bauer, so I'm always in there responding to dms. 

Lesley Logan: [00:42:00] And you have a podcast. She who wins. I do. Yep. On all major platforms.

Awesome. So wherever you listen to this, you guys, you can listen to that. Um, I was on that, uh, on one of the episodes and I know some of my other dear friends, but on this, so you have to go, uh, do a little binge listen, so, okay. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it.

Renee Bauer: Yeah, so I'm bringing it back to Money. Ladies know your money. Don't be afraid to talk about money, to dig into it, to ask for it, to ask for the raise to, uh, to understand how it's serving you or how it's not serving you. And I think if we're talking about like one action item is like, treat yourself like you are the c f O of your life.

Treat yourself as if you are your own business. Don't let it money rule you. You take control of it. And because that is the, it's so powerful. It gives you the courage to do things. It gives you the courage to walk away from things that aren't serving you. So don't be afraid to get really up close and personal with your money relationship.[00:43:00] 

Lesley Logan: Mm. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that so much. Brene, this is amazing. We'll have to have you back. Um, thank you so much for being you and being here. Everyone. How are we going to use these tips in your life? Let us know. Tag the be it pod tag, Ms. Renee Bauer. And until next time, be it till you see it. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be Until You See a Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day. Be it till You see. It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Kroll.

Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Deeno. Our 

Brad Crowell: theme music is by Ali at Apex Production [00:44:00] Music, and our branding by designer and artist John Franco Trophy. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Samina Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Harko for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Brad joins Lesley in this FYF episode, and delves into celebrating their wins. Tune in to know the importance of establishing healthy boundaries and what putting someone on a pedestal is like. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

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In this episode you will learn about:

• Liz stands firm on her boundaries with clients.
• OPC flashcards sale and multiple project success. 
• What happened when Lesley remained true to her authentic self.
• Why working on yourself more leads to knowing yourself more.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions Liz, an agency member
• OPC flashcards on Amazon

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck yeah, Friday fuck yeah.

Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the be it till you see it podcast where we talk about taking messy action knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained 1000s of people around the world. And the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity. And it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice not a perfect let's get started.

Welcome back to fuck yeah, Friday. Are you freaking stoked that you're here? Oh my gosh, these are so fun. So you guys can send your wins in to the beat pod. There are ways to do it. I'm sure it's in the show notes. You also can just like hit up on the DMS. And if you're an OPC, or agency member or elevate min T the GreenHeart lets me know and so list open year two dear today's FYI, F and I got the GreenHeart with a finger pointing to it. So I did not miss it. So Liz had a client reschedule her original time slot for tomorrow. Last week, then today wanted to get back in her usual slot because the appointment she gave up gave me up for moved her to a later time, if that makes sense. So literally, she's like, Oh, I'm gonna move my Pilates session because I moved this other thing and then the other thing moved her again and she's like, Okay, I'm gonna try to move back in. I told her I'd also rearrange my schedule and couldn't fit her in hashtag boundaries. Boom. fucking love this. This is

an abundance mindset right there because you're she also is training her client. You don't get to move me around. Right? This is a time you protect for yourself.

Brad Crowell 1:54  

Yeah, yeah, ads live on this episode.

Lesley Logan 1:57  

Brad's here, he's gonna win. He wants to share. And so (Brad: boundaries) yeah, bounce. So anyways, we all whether or not you're a teacher, let me just tell you how you see this for yourself. We train people how to treat us. If you've got a friend who always flakes on you. You have trained them that they can flake on you. Alright, so use this when to inspire you to hashtag boundaries. Thanks, Lindsay. She's an agency and she's been kicking fucking ass. It's just been so fun to see her growth.

Brad Crowell 2:27  

Yeah, me too. Especially because I remember. She was really, really worried when she first joined the coaching group. And now to see her she's better part of a year later. A different business, a different mindset. Like it's just so fun. It's so fun. Very exciting.

Lesley Logan 2:44  

Way to go. Yeah. 

Brad Crowell 2:46  

Okay, I'm so happy to be here. On Fuck Yeah Friday. This is first time for me 

Lesley Logan 3:05  

Longtime listener first time caller right here.

Brad Crowell 3:07  

Yeah, (Lesley: I've always wanted to say that longtime listener first time caller.) I love it. Amazing. Alright, so we are working really hard over at online Pilates classes.com. And we have a lot of things happening right now, if you haven't heard, we just launched a mobile app for OPC and is available on both Apple and Android. And it has been this thing that we've wanted to do for years. And it was always just like this crazy, expensive project way out of our control. And now with technology, we found an amazing partner to work with, that has helped us really make it viable and it's awesome. We're so fired up about it. It actually also has the pod in there it has YouTube in there as events or Tor it's like a really a one stop shop for things that we've got going on. And that will I'm like super super fired up about it. In addition to that, we actually the most sales we've ever had on Amazon selling our flashcards over there. It has been a multiple year project and it is growing. You know, each month we get a little bit more and a little bit more a little bit more and all of a sudden it was like oh shit this is this is actually like real and I wish to happen a whole lot faster. But I love that it's happening. And it's exciting that it's that it's we have a long future ahead of us.

Lesley Logan 4:26  

Famous last words. I wish it happened a whole lot faster. 

Brad Crowell 4:28  

Yeah we were an overnight success. 7000 days later. Plus, hey everyone, we were finally able to trademark online Pilates classes.ca

There's a little R, There's a little R after it

that was a multiple year waiting process because it takes so freakin long. And then finally of course y'all know we've launched a brand new website and it has been just like night and day difference and we are starting to see different people joining it because guess what, it loads really fast. And it's fun and easy to

Lesley Logan 5:02  

use, like 2023.

Brad Crowell 5:06  

So anyway, Wow, lots of lots going on for us at OPC. And thanks for let me share.

Lesley Logan 5:12  

Yeah, so I have a few wins that I want to share. So first of all, you all know from the last FTF that like I went on a girls weekend and into Connecticut, and I just want to say like, at that girls weekend, I have some wins from that. The first speaker, she like I read her bio, and I was instantly like, oh my gosh, she's so amazing. She's like, so she's like, 2020 Time Best Selling Author. Wow. Right? She's like, spoken all over the world. Her name has a doctor in front of it. And so she goes up does. So I've now like, got this whole story in my head about her, right? Because I'm like, Oh my gosh, like, she's amazing. So she comes on, by the way, I'm in the front row, because I'm now a front row person, not a church, but like, No, we don't go to church, but if we did, I'm never gonna be the front row. But for like for a personal inspirational professional development event. I was like, front row VIP status. Yes. So I had on my side. So she's speaking I'm like, make I'm like, Oh, I love her. I'm gonna bring on the button. By the way, she's gonna be on the pot. Love it. but spoiler alert. So let me tell you how that happened. I was so intimidated by her because she's so amazing. And I really want to be on the pod. And I figured I would just like take her picture posts and stories, give her a little love and then like, follow up later. Well, we got to be in line together with lunch and there's two lunch lines. And the lunch line I picked. There was like barely enough Iceberg lettuce for a salad. I had one tomato. I just grabbed the last bit of ice for less than one tomato and put on my plate when she came up and I looked at him like Oh my I'm so sorry. I didn't leave you any Iceberg lettuce or tomatoes. Cheryl. I didn't realize that it was me behind me. And I have at the last tomato but that one over there looking is for tomatoes. So she joked it went over there. But I was like, I really wanted to talk to her. Like I wanted to like aside from that, right. But she had to go the other line because that's what Iceberg lettuce was. Anyways, fast forward ended the day. I'm where I'm standing around with Corinne waiting for to get a picture taken. And Cheryl comes up to me. And she's like, You seem so fun and approachable. I really want to get to know you. Can I take a picture with you? Yes. Should I take a picture with me? I'm not speaking, (Brad: Cool!) speaking. So when I'm talking, we trade information. She's going to pocket we're having a coffee date. Here's the women that I did not let my story about her being up here on this pedestal. And me being in my little chair in the BACP section. keep me from being my absolute best self true self in front of her. And this is for all of you who get a little shy around people that you're like, oh my god, I admire that person so much. They feed off of knowing how much you were like you learn from them. And they honestly want to learn from you too. Yeah, that that is one of my wins. And also the OPC app is is alive. And it's well and it's amazing.

Brad Crowell 8:29  

Cool. Well, that's a great fun. Yeah, I mean, also, what a great weekend that I know you described it to me in detail, but awesome.

Lesley Logan 8:37  

Some amazing women. I also didn't go outside for two days, which is so weird. That was not a win. But um, but I met so many amazing women and, and I, I really credit like when you do work on yourself, you're listening to podcasts as a self development. When you do work on yourself. You get to know yourself more. It's as an introvert. Do I like being in big crowds of people for nine hours straight? No, there was zero time for me to be by myself unless I was in my shower. But you you actually get to know yourself even more and you get to celebrate the work that you've done when you put yourself in these weird situations. And I just like I'm I'm celebrating the fact that like I did not normally the old Leslie the 2019. Leslie would have probably waited till Tuesday to follow up with her on Instagram. Yeah. And instead when she said, Oh my God, did you seem so fun. I'm like, I want you my podcast. I'm stalking you later. I literally look in your eyes. I'm gonna stalk you later. I want my podcast is like let's do it. Be yourself. It's a fucking win. And we want to share your wins on this podcast. So make sure you send them in. And until next time, be it till you see it.

Brad Crowell 9:46  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 9:49  

That's all I got for this episode of the B until you see a podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever You listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the be at pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day be it till you see it is a production of the blue Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 10:19  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 10:25  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 10:28  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 10:35  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 10:41  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Experience a journey into the mind with Lesley and Brad as they share key takeaways from an eye-opening talk with The Brain Prophet's Dr. Philippe Duoyon and Douglas Mapp. Discover the value of good sleep in combating dementia, the synergy required for body and mind for optimum output, and how AI affects our cognitive well-being.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• 90’s songs and movies that fill Brad and LL’s cups
• Practical tips to get good sleep hygiene.
• The connection between lack of sleep and dementia.
• How the Cerebral Spinal Fluid (CSF) cleans your brain during REM cycles of sleep.
• How taking care of the body and brain results in peak performance.
• The effects of using AI on your brain in the future.
• Benefits of taking cold showers and things to do to challenge your brain.

Episode References/Links:

• Contrology Pilates Conference

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan: [00:00:00] Years ago I heard Seth Goden say parents' jobs is not to like get their, like think that school's teaching their kids. It's to like actually teach their kids when their kids come home. And you do that by asking 'em questions. They can't Google. Or ask them questions, then don't let them Google. And if they answer a question, not telling them what if it's right or wrong, but ask 'em how they got to that answer because that is actually challenging the brain.

So, you know what? Ask yourself a question. Don't let yourself Google. Try to come with an answer and then, you know, see what happens.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Melissa Logan, plaza's instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt, my friend, my friends.

Action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my [00:01:00] guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

And stick around to the very end because we got some outtakes that's been happening. There's always outtakes. Um, and the team does collect them for bloopers on the YouTube, but uh, we're adding them into the end of the pod because you know what you need to know that we are not perfect. You're not perfect, and we're enjoying the process and we are enjoying that.

So have a good laugh on our behalf. Love you.

Welcome back to the Beat Till c interview recap, where my co-host in life, Brad and I are ready to dig into the cognitive combo I had with Dr. Felipe Dion and Douglas Map in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one, and then come back and join us.

Also, if you're listening to this on the O P C app, oh yeah, you don't even have to like go back. You can literally. Just see the list of, of latest episodes and you can go, I haven't listened to that [00:02:00] one yet. That's true. And you can listen to it all for free on that app. Just a shameless puck. Okay. Yeah, 

Brad Crowell: not only that though, uh, this one was, was like, there was a lot going on in this episode, so I actually listened to it, uh, slower than I normally would cuz they were thrown out like of, of science, a lot of science and a lot of stuff that like medical stuff.

My 

Lesley Logan: poor brain was like, not catching up you guys. I failed the cognitive test on the air. I did laugh. I laughed out loud. I like, okay, in my defense I just did not understand the instructions and also I clearly, I did go get my brain checked, but 

Brad Crowell: I can see how he can like mess with you as the person running the test because.

I could see the logic behind why you would want to answer the way that you answered. Yeah. And then I could also see how he was talking about modifying it to mess with people even more. I, I thought it was pretty cool. So, so do you, 

Lesley Logan: so I just wanna know. Pretty cool. Test everyone who listened. Do you think that he made it harder because I'm so amazing?

Or do you, do we think my brain's fucked? Drop a one [00:03:00] in the comments on Instagram. Anyways. Okay, before we get into their conversation, let me just announce that today is international Skin Pigmentation Day. Cause I got some, and y'all all probably have some. And you know what? It's okay. Like get your cancer checked.

Absolutely. But own the skin pigmentation. It makes you who you are. When I was growing up, they called them freckles, and now it's called malama. I do not like that. You hit a certain age and you go from having freckles to skin picking mutation. But at any rate, I see you. Happy International Skin Mentation Day.

Show it off, 

Brad Crowell: um, 

Lesley Logan: this week. We are on a plane right now. Yeah. Right now. So as you, as you're listening, if you're listening to this in real time, we are on a plane. Come back from Korea. Um, Brad's probably sleeping. I am 1000%. 

Brad Crowell: Well, hopefully we are getting. Very deep, amazing. Multiple rem cycle sleep on this plane ride home.

Well if 

Lesley Logan: we have a, a row to ourselves, absolutely. You will always. And I [00:04:00] might, um, yeah, I sleep 

Brad Crowell: sitting up y'all Not normally, but I can't, I have to lie 

Lesley Logan: down. And I have been known to have my legs up the wall of plane just to make room for me to sleep lying down because I have to sleep lying down. I have slept in a rolling, like a ball position just so I can sleep lying down, um, with the seatbelt digging in cuz I don't want them to wake me up cuz I'm not wearing it.

So I like. Loosen it up and get myself in there so I can sleep lying down. At any rate, if I'm not 

Brad Crowell: sleeping, you can imagine it. It's hilarious. 

Lesley Logan: Don't worry. I am watching whatever movies they have because Flights to Asia have the newest, hottest movies and I'm so excited. It's true. Um, but next month, next month, um, lots of It's June.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, it's June. 

Lesley Logan: Yes. Yeah, so in June we're actually staying in town. Brad's gonna go do some camping stuff, but I've got two Elevate Weekends happening. I've got one for Elevate Round two and one for Elevate round three. And if you're like, that seems like a lot. It's not cuz I'm awesome, but I'm, it's a, it's a, 

Brad Crowell: that's why it's 

Lesley Logan: not okay.

Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, thank goodness for our team. Uh, 

Brad Crowell: um, unbelievable. You can't see me on ca uh, rolling my [00:05:00] eyes on the audio side of this, so 

Lesley Logan: don't worry. Um, and while it's amazing, um, we're also gonna go to Utah and do some vacation with our BFFs, uh, what do you call, like, couples who are BFFs because we're, where BFF was the 

Brad Crowell: couple.

Yeah, I don't, uh, maybe we're c 

Lesley Logan: BFFs couple B BFFs. Anyways, someone will tell me, um, we're gonna go to Utah. Um, it's gonna be hot this month, supposedly in Vegas. But we're, we're not worried about it cuz we love it here. Um, and, uh, yeah, so anyways, lots going on in June at home in Las Vegas. I hope you can come and see the beautiful 

Brad Crowell: place.

All right. If y'all can have an answer to that question cuz my brain is still trying to figure out is it like best couple friends forever? Is it bc fff it, whatever you think it might be. Make sure we know, oh, you know what Kareen, you gotta drop us a line. You what on Instagram? And tell us what you think it should be.

Do you know what Kareen 

Lesley Logan: calls me? I don't. A T F. Trusted friend forever. That's me, trusted friend forever. Uhhuh, it's better than b fff tf F. Um, okay, so then, uh, July, we are [00:06:00] gonna be in the United Kingdom. We are teaching an amazing mullet tour of a weekend, 

Brad Crowell: so please literally called the mullet, 

Lesley Logan: y'all. Oh, we have mullets on the flyers.

We have mullets on the notebooks. So I, I don't have a mullet, but we are gonna figure this out. Um, people 

Brad Crowell: think I have a mullet, but I 

Lesley Logan: don't. Well, you can make it look mullety. I 

Brad Crowell: can make it look like a mullet, but it's not 

Lesley Logan: actually a mullet. I think you do that, but I mean, whatever. Whatever we do for art. Um, so anyways, uh, at the time of recording there were a few spots left.

Are there now you should check. Yeah. Um, you can go to opc.me/uk. It's gonna be in the show notes in August. We are doing the summer West coast tour. You guys, we are so. Bricken fired up for this. We are, we have amazing partners with this tour. We do. So we are leveling up this tour. Big. Yeah, it's gonna badass way.

Uh, if you are somewhere between the bottom of California and the top of the United States, you're gonna wanna come. Yeah. You're gonna wanna get in your car. 

Brad Crowell: Come, come in our car. So if you're not sure where we're gonna stop. We're still dialing all that in, but you will find out by getting on the list. Go to [00:07:00] opc.me/tour.

September. Yeah, 

Lesley Logan: Poland. Poland. You guys, there's an incredible conference happening in Poland. I'm speaking. Brad's gonna be there. We're having flashcards. If you have not wanna pay for massive shippings, use that money to go to this conference and enjoy incredible speakers. There's opportunities to take private sessions, which is never a possibility when I travel, which 

Brad Crowell: means you have to sign up early.

Yeah. Cause those 

Lesley Logan: will go, yeah. So, uh, KR pilates conference.com. If you're like, how do you spell that? It's in the show notes. Yeah. 

Brad Crowell: KR pilates conference.com. And you can, uh, it's easy to get there from anywhere in Europe, um, or even in the uk. So, uh, come, come hang. It's gonna be super fun. Yep. And then looking forward to it.

Lesley Logan: And then we go to October. 

Brad Crowell: Gonna go Cambodia. Cambodia. Can I wait to go back? It is filling 

Lesley Logan: up so fast. And um, we are so excited to go back. Yeah. We have so many people who are excited. They're like, which friend can I bring? It's just a ba it's just a wonderful place to truly retreat yourself. And then you will enjoy Pilate sessions.

Breath 

Brad Crowell: work, come stay, come stay in our [00:08:00] village. Mm-hmm. Either with us at our house, um, or uh, at our neighbors. Yeah. Well, 

Lesley Logan: it's gonna be so fun if our house fills up, we have our neighbor's house and, but when I say that, it's not like an Airbnb where you're sharing a room in a house with other people. No, 

Brad Crowell: they have their own guest house.

They're all, and they're literally 15 feet across the street from 

Lesley Logan: us. We all like, we're all we, you all have your own rooms. It's your own doors and your own bathrooms. 

Brad Crowell: And it's, well tu a room. Yeah. For some of 'em it's right. Yeah. We'll work it out. Yes. But anyway, 

Lesley Logan: my point is my, is. 

Brad Crowell: You're not like in a Yeah, you're not down the street from us.

You're 

Lesley Logan: like literally crossing the path. You're in like a house where like you're sharing a living room with random people. You're in a guest, you're in a like a bed and breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, that, that links in the, by the whatever you call the things below. Show notes. And then 

Brad Crowell: actually Leslie logan.co/retreat 

Lesley Logan: Iactually just got off a call with the lovely Erica Quest.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, you did. I heard you two. I can hear you outside. You, you two, like make each other laugh so hard. 

Lesley Logan: It's hilarious. I know. And we're, we came up with that and with, uh, the, what we're gonna, what I'm gonna. Uh, pitch for our workshops for, uh, what's [00:09:00] happening in December, but in November, uh, we're bringing back our very tried and true amazing workshops that people have loved.

That we've never brought to Miami, and we're gonna do some workshops before p o t. The P O t Miami stuff has not been released yet, but we will be at Miami, p o t. So just get yourself to Miami in November. Um, if you haven't gone to Cambodia, Poland, or the UK or a West Coast, I'm just saying yeah, come hang out.

See you in real life. Get your fasts there. 

Brad Crowell: Get your fasts there. Next up is an audience question. Who is it from? It's from Erica Donahue. Sorry I said that wrong. It's, I'm reading Erica Quest. It's Erin Donahue, our dear friend from Bethle, 

Lesley Logan: Pennsylvania. We love Erin. Yes, she's a badass. We actually get to see her at uh, and Katie Donnelly every December, which is just like a true.

Bless them. They even like did an outdoor adventure with me when I was definitely negative from Covid, but we still did outside so no one would get [00:10:00] anything before Christmas Eve. Yeah. Uh, so we love them. Um, and this is her 

Brad Crowell: question. Yeah. So she said, you often talk about small things that fill our cup. As a fellow nineties lover, what is your favorite nineties song and or movie that you cannot turn off when it's on mine?

Are TLCs? No Scrubs and Empire Records. Okay, 

Lesley Logan: Aaron. Okay, so I love this question so much and I do think that like little things do fill our cup, right? So for 90 songs, I will just be completely honest, my parents raised me on focus on the family and my grandparents on the oldies channels. So I was at the Drifters concerts in front row.

I forget who we were just talking about where they were like saying that, and I was like, oh yeah, no, me too, me too. Drifter's baby. So, um, luckily for me, pretty Woman is from 1990 and it is. 

Brad Crowell: Absolutely. Oh, that's your, that's your movie. That's my 

Lesley Logan: movie. That is your movie. 1000% my movie. [00:11:00] I don't care. I don't care if I, I watched it every day for an entire summer with my best friend.

Um, it was our favorite thing to do, and my mom was always like, hi mom. My mom was always like, Leslie, you should be. Watching this every single day, it's gonna like, make you grow up to be a prostitute. And I said, uh, actually mom, she's an entrepreneur and she never takes less than a hundred. So, um, thanks Julia Roberts.

Love you. Um, so that's my favorite movie that I cannot get enough of. I don't know. When did the League of your own come out? Because when I'm flying, uh, cuz pretty women's not on the planes, but a league of your own. Of their own. 92. 92. And then also Sleepless in Seattle. That movie, those another 

Brad Crowell: two 

Lesley Logan: I 93.

93. Thank God for that. So when I, Aaron, when I'm on a flight, literally the last fight to Cambodia to fall asleep, I put on the lee of their own. And then when I woke up, Which I do on a plane. I went on to sleepless in Seattle, fell back asleep, missed the whole movie, woke up [00:12:00] at the end, went back to the league of their own, and like that was my night.

It in between two of 'em and I fell asleep. So love them fills my cup so much in so many ways. For songs, this is actually a little difficult because again, as I mentioned, like. I grew up with focus on the family as one option and like the drifters as another option, and also Chuck Berry's my Dingling, so

my Dingling. If you know you, it's h hilarious. It's a hilarious song. Bell Wood Ring. I just wanna play with my, and then he'd have the whole audience sing that part anyways. Um, so, uh, I did some, some stuff because I wanted make sure I got some songs right. Um, because I don't remember all the Christian bands.

Brad probably does, but like, we probably had like clays of whatever it's called, jars of clay. Like just those, yeah. That, 

Brad Crowell: that, that's the first thing that came into my head was the entire album. Their, their first 

Lesley Logan: album. And there like, there was a couple of bands that like, My parents would let me play in their earshot, but whenever they would leave, and also I had some friends' moms who drove me to [00:13:00] school, so it's an ironic, of course.

Alanis Morrisette. Thank you so much. Um, of course, Mary j Blige, of course, anything by Macy Gray and, um, Whitney Houston. Shout out. I mean, like, how can you not? I remember, do you remember this, Brad? We were walking the dogs in LA and someone's blasting. Um, I just wanna dance with somebody in their car. I just wanna dance with somebody.

Yeah. And they stopped at the stop sign by our house and we started singing with them. Like, 

Brad Crowell: it was like, oh gosh, Whitney. 

Lesley Logan: Anyways, um, So, uh, so Erin said, no scrubs, Erin. Um, and there's an O P C workout called No Scrubs coming up for you. Um, that just have some fun. But I love salt and pepper. I love Lauren Hill.

I loved, I mean like, uh, I don't think there's a 90 song that would come on now that I would stop playing unless it was like, who, weirdo Yankovich. That shit doesn't do me anything. Um, so I'm just into it all. I, [00:14:00] I just, I don't, I can't even pick a fave. I really, really cannot. Um, but also I feel like I should have gone to the, um, loveth fair.

I think I missed out on an opportunity to like really just like, I don't think I was like the 1999 um, shit festival, the Woodstock thing. I think I was a little affair girl all along with my glasses and my perm bangs cuz my mom did that. And, uh, my braces, I think I would've filled it. Fit. Nailed it. Yeah.

What are your 

Brad Crowell: favorites? All right, so, um, I definitely, uh, remember. Uh, being impacted seriously by Green Day and their album Due. Your parents, sledge? They certainly did not. Uh, but I listened on the bus, uh, and I got really into that. Um, do I play it over and over and over again? Not so much. Um, I'm trying to think about like, what would I play over and over again, uh, from the nineties specifically 

Lesley Logan: six PE on the Richer.

You didn't play that over and over again. I mean, 

Brad Crowell: [00:15:00] um, on, no, I played like, um, like, uh, lit and a couple of other punk bands, like whatever. But who in the Blowfish did you Sure. A big bad Voodoo Daddy. Like, I mean, come on. But, uh, yeah, I mean, definitely, um, 

Lesley Logan: There was this Australian band that would go, um, oh, I can't think of it, but like I, um, it's gonna come up in this podcast.

I will come back to it 

Brad Crowell: and they'll just be like, good thing. Well, movies. Okay. So I just was looking, um, the Big Lapovsky is in the late nineties, and that movie is amazing and I'm like super into that film. Um, uh, and the, uh, uh, the ne the other one was I, I kept looking up, like trying to figure out, um, Uh, is diehard.

It's from 1988 and I'm like, no, no, because that one, like if it's on, I'm watching it, but diehard two is 1990, so I don't know if I have that same affinity for diehard two. 

Lesley Logan: Oh my God, dude. Okay. Just, no, maybe people listening remember this, but back when cable was a big deal [00:16:00] and I was in college, um, there would be like, I love the nineties.

I love the eighties. It was on e and like, was it on e What? There was like a, a cable channel. There was a bunch of 'em. And like, anyways, uh, okay. So, but Savage Garden, truly, madly, deeply. Uh, the chorus is unbelievable. It's super fast. It's like, like you have to, like how to lick. Well, it's dun. I can't do it.

I can't do it. I have to listen to it. At any rate, that's the commercial. You can't play it on the air. Oh man. Right now you cannot play it. We don't own the right, but you'all, just go. Those Savage Gardens truly, madly, deeply get to the chorus. And like you will be like, every time I see you, close my eyes da like that.

It's like so fucking good. Anyways, I own the cd, I own the single. I bought the single, single and I played it over and over again. There you go. Aaron. That is the one Fills my cup first. Play it all the time. And Brad's like, no, I think that they're from Seattle. I'm like, they're, no, 

Brad Crowell: I was saying sound garden.

You said Sound Garden. They're from Seattle. Yeah. This is Savage [00:17:00] Garden. Savage Garden. And they're from Queensland. Queensland. I didn't know 

Lesley Logan: that. And they're actually from Brisbane. And you know Brisbane. I fucking love you and Mr. Your faces. Let's go. 

Brad Crowell: Anyway, this has been fun going down memory lane way into it. Great question, erin. Thank you so much. Um, I hope y'all have had a lot of like ohs happening during this time.

Anyway, stick around.

Let's talk about Dr.

Phillip Du and. Douglas Map, uh, two extraordinary individuals who are all about the power of the brain. Both are experts in their fields, uh, and they firmly believe that understanding how to harness the capability of our brains and changing our thinking can also change our lives and the world. Pretty, uh, pretty crazy.

Uh, listening to them talk about, um, just. Stuff that is kind of everyday things that we probably need to be doing to take care of our brains. Um, and I, I really enjoyed the conversation. I think before you jump into. Uh, before you jump into it, just the concept of working, quote [00:18:00] unquote working out your brain.

Um, I really liked the idea of that because we obviously know we need to work out our muscles and, you know, like be moving all the movement and all that kind of stuff. And in my, in my mind I was like, oh yeah, you know, I work out my brain by playing a puzzle video game on my phone. 

Lesley Logan: Oh, don't work. Do you not remember Philipp Dion's whole thing?

Soduko is not gonna work. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. So, uh, but they're, they gave us some pretty practical tips on how to get your brain, um, working out anyway. Um, are you just gonna start, what is the one thing that, um, love your patients there? What is the one thing, uh, that you've loved that they said, uh, to help us work out our brain?

Lesley Logan: So we've had Dr. Fe Dion on before, which is why I know this is a cool thing. Um, but I was just really excited to have him back because, There's so much to know about the brain. I don't even think scientists know everything about the brain yet. Like, and it's just, it's crazy. So, um, of course, you know, good sleep hygiene.

It's been a thing that I've been wanting to work on [00:19:00] and, um, I've been really frustrated because of this aura ring. And it tells me how little sleep I'm fucking getting, even though I was going to bed, but I was like waking up 17 times ago. You just felt the 

Brad Crowell: best sleep in your life like a week ago. At the 

Lesley Logan: time of interviewing them, it was shit.

And prior to that interview, my Aura Ring annual. Wrap up was like, uh, you averaged six hours of sleep, which is not what I, my goal was. My goal was seven hours of sleep, right? So obviously missed that by a big lot. And also like I wasn't getting into deep sleep, which is what our brain needs to do. We, so we have to train our body and brain to sleep.

So I do have a nighttime routine. I have been cheating on it. However, do not work three to four hours before bed. Turn down the lights. As evening approaches, our friends have those like Google. Lights or their lights are on a Google situation and they just are on a timer end. Yeah. They just 

Brad Crowell: start dimming.

They just start dimming. 

Lesley Logan: It's pretty cool. Do it. It doesn't, it doesn't seem to cost a lot, so you can like do it, but you have to think about it cuz all the things you can do to like not have to like remember to do [00:20:00] it. It's like, Amazing for decision fatigue. It also helps signal your body to start releasing melatonin.

Hello? For sleep. They said no caffeine. Eight hours before, you know Europeans, you do things differently. So like, basically like 

Brad Crowell: if caffeine. Yeah, but I feel like science doesn't lie. You know, like, 

Lesley Logan: well, I've, I read a, I read a book on coffee and like, Some people can handle it after three o'clock and some people cannot.

And Huberman also scientists, he also said like, if you can, you can't, if you can't, you can't. So just Fair enough, fair enough. You know, you, um, but, but definitely like probably eight hours before bed makes sense to me. Um, and they emphasize that you should get at least six to eight hours. I really, I feel good at seven hours.

Eight kind of thinks you feel 

Brad Crowell: groggy. So that's good. Yeah. I need to, I need, I definitely am at the six hour mark and I need to step that up. The seven. 

Lesley Logan: Well also, cuz I don't want you to die. Well, 

Brad Crowell: yeah. And, and I mean, well, so here's what's in, he actually said, um, and this was an interesting way to think about sleep, because we kind of think of sleep like last.

It's like the, it's like, eh, you get when I'm dead. [00:21:00] Well, there, I used to say that forever, but, but also like, you know, we're like, oh, I have a big day tomorrow, so I should get some sleep. And the the, you know, he said, Hey, you know, sleep is actually, literally sleep is made for your brain, right? Like, sleep is made for your brain.

Okay, so when we say that, what that, what does that mean? Like you, you need to have the sleep so you can like power wash the brain, right? So that you can actually function and Yeah. And help your brain continue to be they actually communicating to itself 

Lesley Logan: during sleep. You, there's like all this fertilizer that's happening to your brain, the csf, the cerebral spinal fluid.

Right. I don't know that I like the thinking about fertilizer like shit for my brain, but like, it it, well cuz fertilizer has a bunch of manure in it or chemicals. Sure. Okay. So, but let's just think about a holistic level, uh, according to the doctors and the scientists, um, when you sleep, you're like [00:22:00] literally giving your brain all the like, amazing gross shit that it needs.

Here it is. Gross shit. Gross shit. Yeah, it's gross Shit. Sorry. It's gross. Sorry, Douglas. Um, anyways, uh, it's so, um, it's so important. And then they also mentioned this is why it's so important, if you listen to nothing, listen to this. There is links in science between dementia and sleep deprivation. Yeah. So y'all get your fucking sleep because you don't want to be dementia.

Dementia. No. Have dementia. Yes. You don't wanna have it. You know, you don't wanna have it. And like we don't, we, and there's all these other things that are still trying to figure out why it's happening, but like, do yourself a favor and like, at least if one of the causes is lack of sleep. Get yourself some sleep.

Well, 

Brad Crowell: I think, and the, you know, like, to take it a level deeper, basically he's talking about that CFS is cleaning your brain during those REM cycles of sleep. Uh, right. And he said, When you don't get the sleep that you [00:23:00] need, you're not clearing the brain as much as you need to clear it, which ultimately could cause a breakdown of communication, and that that if that communication breaks down, now we're talking diseases such as dementia.

Lesley Logan: Dementia. Well, it makes sense. I mean, if you think about drains, If you don't clean them, there's buildup and then eventually there's blockages. Yeah. And. You know, in LA those things just become a burst pipe. So there's like these things that happen. So that could happen to you. 

Brad Crowell: It, it, it absolutely can. Yeah.

So get your sleep. So that could happen to you. 

Lesley Logan: Uh, this is my for sleep. This is your brain on drugs. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. Right. Uh, I really was also gravitating towards the, um, The, the conversation about, uh, business owners, like entrepreneurs. He said that, uh, uh, business people move the conversation forward because, uh, [00:24:00] especially, uh, Dr.

Dion was, you know, he's in the, the, the health, wellness medical field. He's a fucking brain doctor. Brain doctor. But he's like, Hey, this is slow. Everything is slow in this field. But entrepreneurs get in there and they like, you know, Break stuff and they, they move a lot faster because, companies operating at peak performance are five times more efficient than companies that are not right.

And that's a lot to do with the brain. So they were kind of going back and forth about this and, uh, basically it's, you know, his opinion was that business people have amazing take on the brain, whether or not they realize it because. For them to operate with efficiency. What are they doing? They're taking care of their body.

They're taking care of their brain. They're probably, you know, uh, uh, doing, uh, like maybe it's, uh, supplements or sleep Oh, or some of these food that they're eating, and they're really intentional 

Lesley Logan: about it. Some of these business owners that I've followed, they're like, such biohackers and they're bio.

Absolutely. They're doing some crazy studies on themselves and they move fast. And you're right, they break stuff and like, [00:25:00] not that science is slower, there's. You 

Brad Crowell: need money? No. No money. It's not the science, this law, it's the, the medical field that's, you know, moving the needle in like government stuff.

Like that's, it's 

Lesley Logan: just slow. Well, that's because people, yeah, whatever, but like, You need money to study things and I think business people will are willing to do it because they will invest in the products that will help. The thing meaning cuz I mean, I bought a thing that a business person made to help me sleep better, so I'm in.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. Um, and we're really excited to start sharing about that new, uh, device. Uh, we're working out a, a, a relationship with them. I 

Lesley Logan: know. I'm so excited to tell you all about it tomorrow next. I dunno, I'll, let me get 

Brad Crowell: to my emails. So Douglas Map also had like a side comment about ai, which I thought was really interesting cuz that, that always like, um, I'm always interested in that stuff.

And, uh, he said actually he thinks that it's not necessarily gonna benefit us as much as we think it is, um, in a couple of, you know, in a generation or two. Because historically what has happened over the past, like couple of decades, [00:26:00] we don't remember people's phone numbers anymore because we don't need to, because we have cell phones.

We don't try to do, um, math anymore because we have computers and laptops and uh, and you know, phones that have calculators on 'em. We, you know, there's a lot of like the, uh, normal processing trying to figure out of things that we just don't need to do anymore because we can either outsource it or we have a machine do it for us.

And he said, so there's most, like, historically there's probably gonna be a similar effect on AI culturally. However, he said there's a caveat to that. If we don't train our brains to work beside it, then it will, it could potentially be negative. However, there's a way for us to actually. Use this AI in a beneficial 

Lesley Logan: way.

Absolutely. People who use calculators are still like rocking crazy amazing business things. They just know how to use a calculator to make their mo self most, most efficient. Yeah. And also John Oliver had this on his AI segment. He's like, they're gonna be people who are, uh, lawyers and then there's gonna be lawyers who know use ai.

[00:27:00] There are gonna people who are writers and there'll gonna be people who have writers who use ai. Doctors. Same thing. Doctors. Yep. So it's like you. You have to, you have to still use your con your contacts to help you remember phone numbers. You still have to use the thing, you have to learn how to use it.

And so either you're gonna learn how to use it with you and like you'll become on top of the place, or you won't. But it's not like it's gonna calculate, doesn't fucking take over everyone. Right. 

Brad Crowell: Right. And that what, and the, the ai, you know, like he, he was talking about letting the AI think for us, well, can we do that?

Yeah, of course. But. We will use the AI that much more effectively if we are asking it the right questions. So there's still a lot of like partnering with this AI tool to be the people who are asking the right questions of the AI are gonna get the best results from the ai. Yeah. And they're gonna be even more 

Lesley Logan: efficient.

I agree. I agree. Because my friend did one of those AI drawings of herself. Uh oh. That's cool. You know, like she said, like, oh, draw me as like a superhero, whatever. There was a whole thing on on [00:28:00] Instagram and there, and several of them were really good. And then a couple of 'em had three hands, a lot of three armed AI things.

Uh, I don't know what the AI is giving everyone three arms, so that's why you need to have a better person asking. And one of those hands was on her, like was like coming around to her boob, but like not, yeah, it was just like, she's like, where is his hand coming from and whose hand is it? Anyways, that's hilarious.

People who know how to use it, people who don't. So keep your cognitions with you so you can be more analytical. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah. And, and, uh, some, I'm just gonna share. Super quick story that has nothing to do with anything, but I thought it was so fascinating. Um, my friend went to a, uh, a party and one of the things like, it was like a whole bunch of people, but they had a side room set up that was an AI voice activated ai.

Um, like painter as it were. And so there was a screen and what it was doing was listening for the conversation in the room, and then it would make an AI, digital artwork, piece of imagery based on what it hurt, right? So they were just [00:29:00] throwing out phrases like, uh, one of 'em, literally someone said, Mount Everest, and then like, wait two seconds.

And it would. It would like just show ALF on Mount Everest, right? Like those images don't exist. It wasn't like there's an episode of ALF where he's on Mount Everest. So they were, it was so fascinating how you can interact and create these amazing things with these, this new AI technology. So I love it. I mean, I think, uh, I think 

Lesley Logan: that people's imaginations can go more wild.

Oh yeah, because the things that would hold a perfectionist back, like I can't draw on Mount Everest. Right? It would 

Brad Crowell: take me how long to draw Mount Mount Everest. 

Lesley Logan: I don have time for this. I need to sleep. 

Brad Crowell: Yeah, I got, I gotta get my REM cycle. I need seven hours. All right, 

Lesley Logan: let's talk about those being IT action items.

What? Bold, executable, intrinsic targeted action items can we take away from your combo? I stole it. 

Brad Crowell: I did it. You totally stole it, but I'm gonna steal it back. Um, taking cold showers. In fact, uh, Dr. Philippe said taking free, he's been taking freezing cold showers. Uh, which [00:30:00] is a one up on me. I, I've been taking cold showers, I'm taking of cold showers.

Um, I, well, I, I always start them at like, warm enough for me to get in without feeling like someone slapped me across the face. No. And then I make it cold, so it definitely gets cold. It's, it's not like, uh, but that initial shock, I'm ch I think I'm cheating, so, uh, it's not like I'm jumping in an ice cold pole that is, I'm not it.

I 

Lesley Logan: can't wait for us to have our cold plunge in the, in the annex. But, um, okay. So, We did this episode. Did I say it on the episode or did I figure it out afterwards? That's, I'm not remembering, but like I had been wanting to take cold showers, but I also get up earlier 

Brad Crowell: than you, you mentioned that I was starting to take cold showers, so I think this is just when we began 

Lesley Logan: to do this.

So, so, okay, here's what happened. This is like, thank goodness for divine appointments. Um, so I had this conversation with them and, uh, uh, y'all heard me fail my cognitive tests, but I do think that they were testing me. It's strong, harder than other people. That's what I think. But I did see my holistic doctor did get some stuff from my brain, my brain, and um, I had been [00:31:00] wanting to do cold showers, but our master bath bathroom is obviously in the bedroom and I get up way earlier than Brad sometimes like, and two hours after he goes to bed.

So I didn't wanna take the shower because it's loud. It makes noise, it can do this whole thing. So then I was like, how am I supposed to do this cold shower? Because I don't wanna take it after the walk because I'm already awake. That doesn't work. That's I, I've listened to these guys that we just interviewed, and I also have listened to Huberman on the sleep thing.

I have to take the cold shower in the morning, first thing in the morning. So then Huberman is like, Hey, here's some more information about cold showers in the morning. I'm like, oh, I can take him in the guest bathroom. We have a whole bath. We have an extra shower. Yeah. So then, I said, okay, so this is how you create habits.

Everyone, first of all have, it can't be take a 15 minute cold shower, two minute, well, it's two minutes. That's all you need. That's what the study says. But I can't take this two minute cold shower as a goal because I have to now go across the house and do something over on that side of the house. So I had to start like putting clothes over there for the morning to go on the walk so that I would sure get into the shower.

And then I started with like, [00:32:00] well, how long can I stay in this cold shower? So the first week, I got to a minute. And then I got myself up. I worked my way up to two minutes. I have been doing it every day. Yeah, since a week after I interviewed these guys, which you guys was months ago. So, At any rate, it is amazing.

It does reduce inflammation. It does make me feel like I'm a badass and here's an extra credit thing. Do not turn the shower water warm afterwards. 

Brad Crowell: Oh, right. No, you, you, you stay cold and you exit the count, the shower cold. 

Lesley Logan: Exit 

Brad Crowell: cold, which by the way is, and then when you're drying off, that's like you're warming yourself up with your towel 

Lesley Logan: basically.

We're gonna see how this goes cuz this is, uh, the first summer I'm doing this and the AC is on. When I'm getting outta the shower and it's really mouth fun, but it increases the blood flow, like you said, and it's just makes you alert. I, I 

Brad Crowell: think it also like helps your metabolism and there's a couple of other Oh yeah.

You know things, but, but, uh, you know, basically what it's doing is, uh, it's forcing the blood into your brain [00:33:00] to protect your brain from the cold. Yes. Which is, Literally the best thing that your brain could get. 

Lesley Logan: Also, another shut up for why you should use your guest bathroom. All my married couples is this.

I literal like, oh my God, it's so cold. Oh god. So cold. Oh god. So it's so cold. It's so cold. Oh my god. It's so, but it doesn't wake him up because it doesn't even turn on the water. I didn't even notice water heater doing it. No, I've been doing, I've not this today, even in hotel rooms. I've done it. So Awesome.

I did it. What? Okay. Yeah. Nice 

Brad Crowell: job. Well, what about you? 

Lesley Logan: Okay. So I failed their cognitive assessment. Uh, and so my biggest takeaway is understand your cognitive abilities. 

Brad Crowell: Um, understand, understand your cognitive abilities. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Lesley Logan: Uhhuh. So find a cognitive assessment to identify those strengths and weaknesses.

Um, I think they have some stuff they 

Brad Crowell: actually said if they, if you aret Sure. You can hit 'em up on Twitter and they'll point you in the right direction. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan: And then, um, uh, and then. He didn't mention like meditation, exercise I'm reading, but like, I think those things help. But, um, he did say put your [00:34:00] brain in a rigorous exercise, so you gotta challenge your brain without too much stress to help your brain grow.

And I think that's really vague. So I definitely would tweet at them what those are. But I would also say like, try not to, like we Googled 90 songs. To like, kind of like remind ourselves like, what are our favorite 90 songs? Also, not because we didn't know what they were, but like is it nineties? Is it eighties?

Is it early two thousands? That's a little bit hard for me, but then just like, but it, yes, but you, yeah, but you missed a bunch of parts where like, I was like, there's a, another band, there's a, and I tried really hard to figure out what that band was before we Googled and I got as many parts of the thing.

I had the garden down, I had the, I had the rhythm down. So try to do things that challenge your brain. This is something that's been really important to me. Many, many, many year, years ago I heard Seth Goden say parents' jobs is not to like get their, like think that school's teaching their kids. It's still like actually teach their kids when their [00:35:00] kids come home.

And you do that by asking 'em questions. They can't Google. Mm. Or ask them questions, then don't let them Google. And if they answer a question, not telling them what if it's right or wrong, but ask 'em how they got to that answer because that is actually challenging the brain. So, you know what? Ask yourself a question.

Don't let yourself Google. Try to come with an answer and then, you know, see what happens. I loved it. I, these guys are amazing. You could, it was super 

Brad Crowell: fascinating. I really enjoyed that. 

Lesley Logan: I, I, um, I'm on a mission to sleep more. As of this moment, my average hours are six and a half. I'm still working on that seven, however, We have this product that we can't tell you about yet, but I, uh, got eight hours of sleep straight through.

Did not wake up once within the third day of using this thing. And I'm so freaking excited because as long as I'm in the bed for eight hours, I think I could get close to seven. Right. So I'm 

in. 

Brad Crowell: Love it. Awesome. 

Lesley Logan: Well, I'm Lesley Logan. 

Brad Crowell: And I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan: Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so grateful you're here.

How are you going to use [00:36:00] these tips in your life? Let us know. Tag the vie pod tag, the brain prophets, and. until next time be until you see it. 

Brad Crowell: Bye 

for now.

Lesley Logan: That's all I got for this episode of the Be Until You See a Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day. Be it till You see. It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo. Our 

Brad Crowell: Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Xamina Velazquez [00:37:00] for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website.

And finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. 

Gain invaluable insights into the world of brain science and discover practical strategies for optimizing brain health and performance in this engaging interview with The Brain Prophet hosts, Dr. Philippe Duoyon and Douglas Mapp. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Mental obesity and why we need cognitive training.
• Neuroplasticity: Your Brain's Superpower.
• Impact of pregnancy and hormonal changes in women's brain.
• The essential role of sleep in brain health and function.
• How business minds are always evolving.
• Leveraging AI for productivity and what can lead to a dark path.

Episode References/Links:

• Doulgas Mapp Email [email protected]
• ThinkUp Website
• Follow Douglas on LinkedIn
• Follow Douglas on Twitter @dmapp2
• Dr. Philippe Duoyon
• The Inle BrainFit Institute Website
• Follow Dr. Duoyon on IG
• Follow Dr. Duoyon on Tiktok

Mentions

• Neuroplasticity: your Brain’s Superpower Book
• James Wedmore’s podcast mentioned episode
• Mental Distal Influence book

Guest Bio:

Philippe Douyon, MD is a board certified Neurologist. He completed his residency in Neurology at NYU and fellowship in Clinical Neurophysiology at NYP-Weill Cornell Medical College. He spent 5 years as an attending Neurologist/Epileptologist at Northeast Regional Epilepsy Group. Dr. Douyon is the Founder & CEO of the health, wellness, and technology company, The Inle BrainFit Institute® (www.inlebrainfitinstitute.com), which was created to improve people’s health and quality of life. Through the Inle BrainFit Institute he has created individualized exercise regimens based on the person’s medical and neurological needs, as well as their personal goals. Dr. Douyon’s BrainFit™ app, released in November 2018, is game designed to teach people about the impact of food and exercise on the brain and body. Dr. Douyon is also the author of the book, Neuroplasticity: Your Brain’s Superpower, which speaks to the brains ability to learn, adapt, and heal. In the book he discusses actionable steps that we can all take to maintain a healthy brain. Dr. Douyon has taught his book on the online platform www.mentorbox.com. He has traveled the United States giving talks ranging from neurological disorders to ways that we can maximize our neurological potential. Dr. Douyon is creator and instructor of the online class, Take Charge of Your Brain in 30 days (www.inlebrainfitinstitute.com/take-charge)

Douglas Mapp, a board-certified cognitive development professional, helps individuals think differently in life-impacting ways. When working with companies he directs companies and their employees to harness their brainpower for better performance and higher outcomes so that they and our communities can be exceptional. True learning occurs when the mind can deliver successes while it minimizes stress. In meeting Douglas, you’ll take from him his belief that “You can’t do differently until you think differently;” and often it’s your brain that’s holding you back. When people are intrinsically motivated to learn something new exceptional actions follow. Follow Exceptional Professional Framework™ and watch your thoughts and your actions make a brighter tomorrow.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Dr. Philippe Douyon 0:38  

So, yeah, recognizing how the brain works I think is incredibly important because again, we are not our brains, but it is the most powerful tool that we have at our disposal. It is the number one technology that we have on this planet is the brain. Yeah. So we need to learn how to use it. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan 5:27  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Melissa Logan, Plaza's instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt, my friend, friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.  

All right. Be it babe. We have one of your favorite guests back. You all love Dr. Felipe Deion. When we had him on before and I decided we had to bring on his other half of his podcast, the Brain Prophet, which is Douglas Mapp, and these two are brain nerds for sure. 100%. Um, and what I really loved is how they explained. Well, we all need to be doing so much with our brains, and typically we wait until something is in need to work on it. And really, our brains are something that we need to work on now. And how does this affect you being until you see it? Well, you need your brain to take you wherever you're gonna go, so you are gonna absolutely wanna listen up to what Douglas and Dr. Philippe Duoyon have to say about this because y'all, um, We're we, I think we tend to put ourselves last. And when you do that, you're not only putting yourself last, but you're putting your brain last, probably last last. And we go into how to actually put your brain more first and also like what we all can be doing more in this world to be more like our brain and to take the next level. It's really interesting. We get to talk about a lot of things. Um, it's a great conversation. I'm excited for you to have it. And I also really loved, um, there'd be action items for sure. And also one, like you can just do them. You don't have to go buy anything. You can actually just go do them, which is really. And if you haven't noticed on the podcast, um, outtakes, especially on the recaps are happening because guess what? I'm perfectly imperfect. No, I'm kidding. I take a lot of messy action. I make a lot of mistakes, and some of those things get taken out of the actual feed, but then the team puts it at the end of the credits. You know how when you're at the movies and like something fun happens, At the end of the credits and only the people who like stayed after got to see them. Well, that's what we're doing with this podcast. So enjoy, um, hearing how many times I, um, can't say a word. Can't say my own name. Can't say Brad's name or forget how this podcast goes. Alright. And until, uh, and without further ado, here are the brains.

All right, Be It babes. I'm so excited because we have a two person show happening here today. Well, it's three because I'm the third. But we have two people as guests. And it's gonna be a lot of fun. First of all, they're just like experts in their area, you already know one and loved him so much, Dr. Philippe Douyon is here. He is, as you know, like the brain doctor, and also part of The Brain Prophets podcast, and his other half is Douglas Mapp. And he's here to talk about what they're doing together what they do in the world of just all helping us like think in a different way. So you guys, thank you for both being here. Can you each have... Douglas, since this is your first time you get to go first and introduce yourself and then we'll do the doctor.

Douglas Mapp 7:28  

Alright, thank you. Thank you. I'm Douglas Mapp founder of Being Up. I'm a cognitive development professional. And I'm one of the halves of The Brain Prophets podcast. You can find me of course on Twitter made primarily @DMAPP2. And you can also you know, go check out thinkupexcellence.com (https://thinkuptn.thinkific.com/)

Lesley Logan 7:50  

Awesome. That's, you know, good for you to be on Twitter. It's a brave place to be.

Douglas Mapp 7:56  

I don't really see. Yeah

Lesley Logan 7:58  

Maybe we'll have to talk more about that. Okay. Yeah, Dr. Philippe Douyon. For those who are new to you, can you remind us who you are and what you do?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 8:06  

Sure. So I'm a board certified neurologist. I'm author of the book Neuroplasticity: your brain's superpower. I've got a children's illustrated series called Nervy The Neuron where we teach kids about their brains and how they can take care of their brains. And I'm also the creator of the online course Take Charge of Your Brain.

Lesley Logan 8:23  

Very, super cool. I love Nervy the neuron I think it's so cool. I don't think that when I was growing up there was any books about the brain. So kids are definitely getting more more educated than I was when when they're younger. Okay, so I want so we've all you all said some amazing words I think what's really important is like to kind of go back to the basics so we're on the same place. Douglas when you say like cognitive, everything you said can you kind of tell people like what a day in that looks like or what it is that you're , like, what are you trying to get people to do with that?

Douglas Mapp 8:55  

Yeah, what we're trying to do is improve the way that people think so you know how you go to the gym and then this is kind of appropriate for this podcast. So you go out, you guys do Pilates in order to, you know, improve the strength of your body, your physical self, right so the cognitive development process is a process we put people to improve the mental capacity or just the mental, your thinking, so that you can perform and produce at a higher level.

Lesley Logan 9:25  

So you're basically saying that like we have the power and the ability to kind of improve how we think, change how we think, it's not stuck just like how you were when you were younger, it can have, it has ever learning abilities.

Douglas Mapp 9:39  

Yeah, yeah. So you know, once you understand the type of, the right type of activities to do, we can improve like, you know how fast your processing speed processes, right? how long your memory, how much your memory can hold...

Lesley Logan 9:52  

Like a computer but from my brain, you can make my brain be faster. 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 9:56  

Yeah, your brain is already faster than a computer but yes, essentially, think about like your control of it like so imagine somebody who picked up a computer 30 years ago, probably one recognize how to really use this full capabilities, so were part of that process of utilizing your full capability or more of your capability, right? And so, you know, this is about, to me, no knock on anybody else. It's about you know, next level stuff, like when, you know, productivity, how do we take it to the next level, and it comes by understanding, and not just understanding what your brain could do, but then putting it through the paces so that it can do it, right. It's one thing to know, is one thing to know what the form is supposed to look like, it's another thing to be able to do the form.

Lesley Logan 10:38  

So that makes a lot of sense to me, I think that thank you for using that analogy. And it's like, so I guess the next question for you is like, how do we know we need to improve our brains? Like, is it something so come to you for because I'm feeling stuck in my job? Like, is it like, or you can do it in your work and your capacity of thinking outside the box at home? Or at the gym? Like, what what is it that brings me to think like, I want to do this next thing?

Douglas Mapp 11:06  

That's a great question. Like, how would you know, so this is gonna be this is me and Philippe's fight, because it's our brain. And because we don't really see our brain and because we generally judge each other by each other, we don't really know. So I call it when I call it that, right now, we're facing a problem in America, and maybe even around the world in general, despite our society, and least first world countries, and it's called mental obesity. But because you can't see it, you don't know, how are, you know, how I guess subpar? Or where you're lacking performance is at, right? So I would think that what we need to be doing is just like people should just generally exercise, we should be generally putting these practices into play on the things that we do. So if you want if you want, so if you so I'm gonna use some metrics, just to put put it in retrospect. So let's go 20 years ago, well, almost 20 years. So in 2005, right. So in 2004, as a population that works on averages, we were productive, our production rate improved at a rate of 2.2% year over year, right? now, right? Since 2005 till now we improve at a rate of 1.4%, or at least from a productivity standpoint. So we're less productive than we used to be. 

Lesley Logan 12:33  

Because we're overwhelmed with thoughts?

Douglas Mapp 12:38  

I would say, I would say that it's not so much the overwhelm, but it's the lack of ability to run the same race as fast and so we don't have to train the same way. So like between 1948 1970 the world that we have now never existed...(Lesley: Oh, yeah) Right? I mean, as we have it now, so but right now, we have the internet, we have so many things that doesn't allow you or doesn't necessarily rely on you to have to think or create it, you can ask a question to some device, it tells you the answer, you don't have to even think, right? You can hire somebody to do something for you that you could have tried to build something yourself just even get that you know that brain associated with what that should take that's gone, right? So there's a lot of things like visual processing that would be used in trying to put something creative together. So now, as people, we don't exercise our brains the same way so that you don't actually even know what you could have been doing. Overwhelm of course happens because now you're trying to lift something that you're not strong enough to lift.

Lesley Logan 13:45  

Yeah, but we used to be able to we use that capability. It's like when you get older, some things just aren't as easy anymore. You could do the exact same thing. But we're, we're still young.

Douglas Mapp 13:57  

Yes, yeah, you should be able to do it.

Lesley Logan 13:59  

So so how does the two of you guys connect and start working together? Because you have this podcast and you and as you said, you're like trying to get people to understand a problem that they don't know that they have? Because I feel like they'd be pretty meta. The brain needs to tell you that it's not at its capacity (...)

Douglas Mapp 14:18  

Philippe, if you don't mind, let me tell this part of the story then you pick up where you I throw you in there. So Philippe wrote this awesome book. It's called Neuroplasticity: your brain's superpower. And of course, in my field, once I saw it, I had to read it. And so fully tell the people about your book, man.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 14:37  

Yeah, so it's really about how you know, our brains adapt, how they learn, how they heal, but most importantly, that we have the ability to control how our brain evolves. So a lot about what we talked about is really about giving people their power back because one of the things that I always say is like you are not your brain, the fact that you are aware of your thoughts, the fact that you know you've got a brain inside your skull means that you are much higher level than your actual brain. And so now it's about doing the things to keep your brain a healthy one, but to keep your brain evolving, so that way, you can overcome obstacles, you can overcome the challenges that you face, you can create the life that you want for yourself. And so when we ask the question, like, how do people know that they may need, you know, cognitive training or brain training? Well, we can always ask them well, how's your life going? How happy are you? Are you anxious? Are you depressed? Are you accomplishing your goals? Are you living the life that you've always dreamed of? A lot of people that answer is going to be no.

Lesley Logan 15:40  

Yeah, so this, um, like, my brain just went to like three different things and a little bit more and a little selfish. Mostly because our listeners are mostly women, does the women's hormones and the changes in that affect the brain's capacity to learn? And therefore do we have like, Is there something I should be doing now? Before the hormones change and bucket all up?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 16:06  

Well, you know, here's the amazing thing, right? That all of our brains change, depending on the phases in life that we're in. And we see this especially happened with women, that their brains change in some incredibly, just beautiful, beautiful ways, right? And Pregnancy is a great is a great time, where you're seeing a lot of changes in the brain. And the reason being that when a woman is going from not being pregnant, to pregnant to preparing for this baby to come, her focus has to shift, right? Her focus is no longer on her. The most important thing now is to make sure that this baby survives, and as well. And so the brain changes in ways to make sure that that happens. So you hear a lot of women talk about that they've got pregnancy, brain, pregnancy, brain is a is a real thing. Right? But it is not at all a bad thing. It's actually a really great thing. You don't need it's not all that important for you to remember, you know, somebody's phone number. I mean, you know, most of us don't remember phone numbers nowadays. 

Lesley Logan 17:11  

I don't know Brad's phone number. I alwasy have to ask, what's your phone number?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 17:16  

Well, probably not the best example. Because that's actually one of the things that we have lost in the last 20 or 30 years, our ability to remember phone numbers, because we don't do it anymore. But yeah, you don't need to remember something that may not be important to the survival of your child. Right? And so women attribute that to pregnancy brain. Some women think that it's not a good thing, but it's actually a really, really great thing. So yeah, so hormones play a significant role on how our brains evolved.

Lesley Logan 17:42  

That's really fascinating. I love that you bring that up. I think every person listening here is like, oh, boy, what a great way to reframe that. And also, can we like shout it louder for all the people. So go ahead, Douglas.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 17:56  

Now, I was gonna say to write back just a little bit on this finishing up the story when you are...

Lesley Logan 18:01  

so sorry. I'm so sorry. I got distracted. I got excited. Go ahead. Finish. Sorry. Yes, we gotta go back.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 18:06  

Yeah. So after I read that great book that he told everybody about, which, you know, go get the books on Amazon. I reached out to him over LinkedIn. And then you know, we just got to like chopped it up over that and we became you know, close and so now we're you know, cool peoples and so I guess we're friends with although we still have to meet in person, he's been busy. I've been busy and we haven't met in person yet.

Lesley Logan 18:27  

How long have you guys known each other and you haven't met in person? 

Douglas Mapp 18:31  

Oh, man. It's been is it going on? Three years now? This is the third year.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 18:36  

I mean, part of that is like COVID. 

Douglas Mapp 18:39  

yeah, like surgery

Dr. Philippe Douyon 18:42  

And then he's like, he's like in Tennessee, like, nobody really wants to go to that part of the world.

Lesley Logan 18:51  

(...) people I love that.

Douglas Mapp 18:54  

We're in Knoxville, and I tell him this all the time. One of the world's most leading laboratories is like 15 minutes of the road.

Lesley Logan 19:01  

Wow, that's amazing. So there you go. I feel like you're putting on thick but maybe we can find Vegas come to Vegas, everyone loves it here. So okay, so going back to like you talked about like, we can take our brain to like training camp basically. And we have neuroplasticity meaning we can, like, our brain is like we have the ability to change it. Is this like, so my dad isn't listening to show so I could talk about him but he will do this whole thing is like I had an old man day moment and like he tells me that he couldn't find his keys and it was around his neck the whole time. You know, like that kind of like and I'm like well dad I think like regular people like any age like that happens all the time. We're just distracted but like, is there an age at which like that plus it's harder to take the brain to the gym or is it like as long as we were doing it we can keep doing it like what are the expectations obviously without like, you know any external extenuating, like, conditions?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 20:00  

Yes. So there's definitely like critical periods in the brain's development, where it's easier for that to happen. But we retain that ability throughout our entire lives. As long as we're doing certain things that are really healthy for the brain and promoting neuroplasticity, like exercising, like getting a good night's sleep. Actually, that's when you're seeing a lot of these neuroplastic changes happening when people are in the deeper stages of sleep. And a lot of people are sleep deprived. And when we say exercise, it doesn't even necessarily mean you go into gym and using some weights. It could be dancing. It could be you know, Pilates. Which, which you got me to do by the

Lesley Logan 20:36  

Did you do it? I got another guest to do it!

Dr. Philippe Douyon 20:40  

Yeah, you got me to do it which was awesome. Yeah. It's really great. You just never find an appointment.

Lesley Logan 20:48  

Oh, yeah. Well, well, after we'll get offline, and I'll find out where you are. And I'll help you find that. But, you know, I love that you bring that up. Because I think sometimes people think that like, oh, the gym is exercise, and then yoga is stretching. And then we don't really know where Pilates is, we'll put it in somewhere in the stretchy camp. And, and really, it's like any kind of movement that is intentional, that like you're not on your I mean, I guess you could be on the bike on the phone. But like, you know, intentional movement, where you're actually trying to like move the body in a different way and strengthen some things. But I to give Pilates a nice little hit, I have been trying to do this one. This exercise I've been able to do for years. So the strength part of it, no problem. But there's a rhythm to it. It has this it's so for everyone listening, Pilates is not slow. Pilates has its every action has a own rhythm. And this one exercise is a fast overhead like a fast plow. So legs parallel to the floor. And up that over up has to be really fast. And then you take your time. So there's this moment where you throw your whole body over and up. And like because of that inertia to get it over and up fast. When you get up, you have to stop and you have to catch it. And like that's really hard to do because it takes control. For years, I've been trying to get my brain understand the fast part to get to catch the slow part. And I finally did it finally did it and I was like, ah, you know, but like it's a it is a string thing. It's a coordination thing. It's in your brain to like focus on it. So. So hopefully I like took my brain to the gym as well, in that moment.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 22:14  

Yeah, yeah. And you know what I love about that story. You said for years, I've been trying to get my brain to understand the fast part. So you in that statement, recognize that you are not your brain.

Lesley Logan 22:24  

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, fascinating. So well. So when you, so Douglas, when you are taking people to gym and taking their brain to gym, what does that look like? For let's say, I just like want to be able to take in more information and not, you know...

Dr. Philippe Douyon 22:42  

We can do one right now. Okay, we'll give you a working memory exercise. And you can just follow along with the people. So all I want you to do is tell me the sum of the last two numbers that you tell me.

Lesley Logan 22:54  

Okay, so if I just tell you, Oh, I'm, you're gonna give me the numbers.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 22:58  

I'm gonna give you the numbers. And you're gonna tell me the sum of the last two numbers that I tell you. Of course, this is a conversation. So you're going to speak and then I'm going to speak, but I still want the sum of the last two. Okay. All right. 12...Lesley: 3) 1

Lesley Logan 23:14  

4, oh wait, no. Oh, I see. I'm missing, I'm misunderstanding. So the last two numbers. So you said one, two, then 3

Dr. Philippe Douyon 23:27  

2 So this is where we push the red light focus on what I'm saying? Not what you're saying. And most people's brains want to go like, Oh, what did I say? What did I say? 

Lesley Logan 23:44  

I'm definitely feel like I'm a most people right now. Not feeling.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 23:49  

And so that's just a simple working memory exercise is also focused on, well, not necessarily processing speed, but auditory processing. And you could use some visual processing in as the same time as you're doing that particular thing. But it's about putting yourself through the right type of rigorous exercises that are right underneath frustration to promote positive neuroplasticity processes. So that's what we know. That's just one little one that we do.

Lesley Logan 24:17  

Yeah, that one is that one. I'm gonna say I needed to go back to school for that. 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 24:24  

We didn't, I mean, I just kept repeating the same numbers over and over. Now the crazy part is, well, if I did it and said something you said, then you start to question, why are we saying the same things?

Lesley Logan 24:37  

Right? Yeah, no. There's Yeah, I also the brain is very funny because like, I think, because I know I have a brain. And then I get a little I'm one of those people. I'm not a hypochondriac, but sometimes I like when I switched a word. I wasn't reading the word. I was remembering the word from Instagram and I was dyslexic with it. And I was saying it and I was saying like, that's not it, but like it in my brain I could picture was like chapel Allerton, I was saying Chalo Appleton, I was like (...) speaking. So then it's like, okay, what am I getting too old? Do I need more sleep? Is this something wrong? Nothing's wrong before or if we're just being like a crazy hypochondriac.

Douglas Mapp 25:19  

Yeah, that's a great question, how do you know something's wrong. So it's harder with our brains to recognize because we, you know, we're always kind of doing that too many routine things to really notice. So when something starts to slip off, that's when we notice and sometimes that can be too late. But I would like to say one of the things that we are about manfully is about being proactive, right. And if we stay proactive, then we don't have to worry about the slip, right? You don't want to worry about the problem. You know, it's too late at that time, you're like way behind the eight ball. And it's costly, more costly to fix the problem, and it's to kind of stay healthy. And so I'm in that camp of like, of trying to stay ahead of the game, because our brains, we only have one brain. And as resilient as it is. You know, it's, it's, you know, it's too nuanced to say, let me let this particular part of it slide. Yeah. So that's what I said about that. But I do want to say sleep like, you know, people talk about getting sleep a lot, because it's just like, it's, it seems, well, when the general person I think, hears, hey, you need to get more sleep. It's, it's, I think it's dead airs to some degree, because it's like, Oh, why do I need more sleep? But there's a process your brain actually has to go through, and Philippe talk about the brain washing process if you don't mind

Lesley Logan 26:36  

Yeah, I want to hear it. Because I've been, I've been trying to get my aura ring, average sleep to be up. And whenever I actually read the stats, I get depressed, because I'm like, well, I'm my REM is not getting any longer my deep sleep as I'm like, What do I want these numbers to be? Because they all don't seem high enough?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 26:55  

Yeah, so you know, here's the great thing, like, we always recommend that people get like six to eight hours of sleep per night. And there's a reason. So the brain goes through this cycle, right? we have non REM sleep, REM sleep. And it's really in the deeper stages of sleep that we see a lot of the healing that happens, right? but it takes about 90 minutes or so, 60 to 90 minutes, to get into those deeper stages of sleep. And you need to go through that cycle, at least four to six times in the middle of the night. And so that's why we tell people six to eight hours of sleep per night, when you get into the deeper stages of sleep. So our brains are bathed in fluid, our brains and spinal cord are bathed in fluid because it's cerebrospinal fluid or CSF. And what we've realized is that when we're in the deeper stages of sleep, there are waves of this fluid happening. And it's thought that the reason that we're seeing these waves is that the brain is essentially clearing out the toxins that build up throughout the day. And when those toxins accumulate over a long period of time, that's when people develop things like dementia. Right. And so there are links between dementia and sleep deprivation, especially Alzheimer's, dementia, and sleep deprivation. Everything that we know is that in the deeper stages of sleep, your brain and your body released brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is the chemical that triggers neuroplasticity, that it's the chemical that promotes neuroplasticity.

Douglas Mapp 28:24  

So think about, think about that as like fertilizer for your brain if you think about, like, you know, growing plants and stuff. 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 28:31  

sleep is made really for your brain

Lesley Logan 28:32  

Well, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I think people are there if they would actually say it's for their brain, they might actually think of it in a different way, you know, or use it in a different way. I think they're there. They sometimes I hear I feel like the people around when they talk about sleep, it's like, oh, I have to go sleep because like, got a workday tomorrow. And it's like well, actually, it's so your brain can like run your body through whatever you want to do tomorrow. Yeah. So you can do whatever so when it comes to like, I'm sure there's so many tools, but like what are some things that can help people like? Like be it till they see it when it comes to being a better sleep? Or are there things like that they could be considering during the day, obviously, like screen time before bed is a terrible thing, but like, what are some other things that people could do to just really prepare themselves for their brain going, you know, to fertilizer school?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 29:24  

Yeah, so having good sleep hygiene is really important. And what I mean by that is that you do need to prepare your body and brain for sleep. And so you probably shouldn't eat three to four hours. Your last meal should be three to four hours before you go to bed. And you should turn down the lights as the evening approaches, because that signals to your body to start releasing melatonin, which is the chemical that tells your brain that it's time to go to sleep. You should avoid caffeine eight hours prior to when you're gonna go to bed. I tell people all the time the bedroom, only two things take place in the bedroom, sleep, and sex, everything else, get all the electronics out of the bedroom, TVs, laptops, phone, all of that. So there are things that you can do every single day to help to prepare yourself to get a good night's sleep.

Lesley Logan 30:15  

Yeah, I think I definitely, I was so good about my phone not coming into the room. And then my husband went away for a month that we have this, this is downtown, we have an electronic glass door. And it's because to let the dogs out, there's only one way out. And we have to go all the way around, we're in the back of the house, in order to go to the front of house, to go back through the middle, to the back of the house to let them out. And so we got this electronic door. However, it only lets them out, it doesn't let them in, you have to let them in with a phone app. And when he's here, he can do it.

But he went away, which is only for two weeks, and it was a month. And so then my phone, made it back in the room and I have not gotten myself back into habit. So by the time this episode comes out, and Brad and I do the recap, I will I will let you guys know if I'm able to recreate that habit, but it made a massive difference for my sleep. Because I like I hit sometimes well, I spent many years where I had stomach issues that then caused me not to sleep much. And then my sleep stomach issues became this vicious cycle. So I'm really like, I'm always very aware if I've got deeply burned out because I'm like, What did i What did I eat what's going on, because I don't ever want to go back to where I don't get my sleep, which then therefore doesn't put me through my digestive cycle. And then I go back to like not sleeping again, it's my own priority thing. But I find that people don't realize the two can be very connected. And then they don't see it that sleep is so amazing. So I love those you guys are gonna have to tell us how you use them. So you guys decided to start a podcast together because you wanted to hang out more, because you realize you were like trying to do the exact same thing or, I mean, I can see the main problem you guys have is that people need to do what you're talking about before they need to do. So they're trying to get people to do something they don't know that prevent a problem, which is always hard to get people to do. So how how did that whole thing come about?

Douglas Mapp 32:04  

Yeah, so I think well, we can we do use our podcasts for two reasons. That's of course to elevate the conversation, right? And then also kind of learn from people, if it's as important to them as we think it should be. Right. And so most often, it's not as important. That's one, but they met but at the same time, they don't recognize the factors necessarily, that lets us know, or that would let them know, hey, there's an issue. And so, but but we won't keep it fun. So it's still a fun podcast, we talked about some of the challenges that arise and what could happen if people did kind of put their brain through these pieces that kind of help them do better, right. And so we've had a mix of people from the like, you know, sexuals, or sexual but sex psychologists, right to help people that are relationships all the way to like business owners, we even had a one of the physicists from the Oak Ridge National Laboratories who came on to talk about, you know, how the thinking of people in that world could be affected by you know, the work that they do, and how, you know, their performance matters in that range or in that realm.

Lesley Logan 33:18  

Yeah, yeah, that's, uh, I like it. So you're like, trying to see what people actually are thinking about, if they're thinking about it at all, when it comes to what you guys are doing, and also, how other people are doing it. That's a nice little combination that people can really learn from Yeah,

Douglas Mapp 33:30  

yeah. Because like I said before, with, if you look at the numbers, you know, most of the things that we work on, at least on my side, we work on, is, has to deal with what we were studying in children up until 1984. So at that time, 1984, that's when people were like, Hey, I wonder if this if, you know, all this brain stuff is gonna matter to adults. And (...) they found that it did. And so now from there, you know, you move us, you know, 10-15 years later, this is, you know, this neuroscience field is one of the latest fields in the country when it comes to like, how we can help ourselves do more with this super powerful machine. 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 34:13  

It's o fascinating that like it's now a fast growing field. Like, I feel like we should have been making that happen sooner.

Douglas Mapp 34:23  

Yeah, I agree. But I don't know. I don't know, if from a historic standpoint, I don't know, if there was enough of us curious enough to see the dynamic moves in, you know, how we can kind of put things together and move. Right? Most of the people that are movers or shakers, or that are creating are not in this that field, right? And it's hard to study them. So I don't know.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 34:51  

Well, you know, I come from a healthcare world where everything is incredibly slow and archaic...(Douglas: So you are used to it?) No, but actually what I will say is business people move conversations forward. And business people have a really amazing take on the brain, whether they realize it or not. When, as opposed to people in healthcare as opposed to doctors, nurses, pharmaceutical company, the agenda is different, right? And so when you look at entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, it's all about growth, I got to grow my business. Well, in order to grow my business, I need to grow, I need to evolve, I need to develop myself, well, that's all a brain thing. Your evolution is about your brain, whether they put into those terms or not. And I was recently at a conference with a bunch of entrepreneurs, got to hear like Tom Brady speak, some really powerful speakers. And it's really, in their conversations about who they had to be, who they had to become, it really was about how they had to change their thinking. How they had to change the actions that they were taking, in order for them to create the lives that they wanted for themselves. And as a neurologist, I'm like, oh, it's all a brain issue. 

Lesley Logan 36:08  

I love that you brought it that way. Because it made me think like, when I started doing what I was doing, I was by myself. So I was doing everything by myself, I was pulling my like, you know, I was like, trying to learn this over here and trying to figure how to, like, update a link on a website, by myself, like all these things. And then I grew the team. But that required me to think in a different way to stop thinking like, I'm the only one doing it, I had to start thinking like, there's other people here and then relying on that. And that's a whole other way of thinking, because now you're leading a team, to do the thing that you wanted to do, while still learning how to do what you want to do. And then years later, the team expands. There's now even more things. And so I think we I think as as you brought that up, it made me think 1,000% we have to change the way we're thinking, but also how much we underestimate that we think there's something wrong with us, that we aren't able to quickly switch into this new role. Like, and it's like, well, actually, no, you have your brain hasn't been doing it like that, you have to probably train your brain to re consider, like, you know what I mean, we're not born with like, all all the skill sets that are there that we were learning, we have to learn them just like a new language or something when we were a child, right? 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 37:19  

Yeah. And if you think about the way that we learn in school, right? it's very much about being an individual. Right? There's no teamwork in school, we call that cheating. But in real life, it's all about teamwork. Right?

Lesley Logan 37:31  

Or if you are doing a group project, one person is doing it, and everyone is...

Dr. Philippe Douyon 37:35  

That's right. And so it's really about, so, you know, essentially, we've been trained for years on how to do things by ourselves, which, you know... 

Douglas Mapp 37:49  

Is counterproductive to how the brain works, right?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 37:51  

Yeah, it's not a successful way of going about it. Even when we think about how the brain works. The reason why the brain is so powerful is because it's got billions of neurons that make trillions of connections together. Every brain disease is because of a breakdown in communication between those neurons. Every brain disease, a stroke, you know, you get blood flow is blocked a particular part of the brain, neurons start to die, they can't communicate with each other. Right? Unless you can't send signals as quickly as you should. And so the communication is impaired, whatever it is, it's a breakdown in communication. So teamwork is incredibly important.

Lesley Logan 38:33  

That is interesting. So, so I guess, like, training, so you're obviously you're saying like the brain as being teamwork, but also like teamwork with others, like, what are some what are some ways to? Or where can we have fun? Is it your book? Like, where can we find out how to like, get our brain to understand that teamwork? Because all I'm thinking is like, oh, my gosh, you need all of those connections to like, stay fresh, stay young?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 39:00  

Well, one of the things that I tell people all the time is you need to act more like neurons. Right? The reality is that when there's communication breakdowns between couples, that's when divorce happens, or separations happen. When countries have communication breakdowns. That's where war happens, right? When bands no longer communicate, well, that's when the Beatles breakup or whoever. Right? So yeah, recognizing how the brain works, I think is incredibly important. Because again, we are not our brains, but it is the most powerful tool that we have at our disposal. It is the number one technology that we have on this planet, that's the brain. So, we need to learn how to use it.

Yeah. And then what and then everyone's like, how can I outsource this amazing tool into like chat GPT? And it's like, well, your brain

Douglas Mapp 39:53  

Yeah, that's a niche thing. So you know, I talked to educators sometimes as well. And one of the things that I, that I think what this is going to do, well will be the next separator. So I want to say this too, because this is very important for, for business owners that are listening. So the best companies are more productive than the slowest companies by five times. So if you're not, so if you're not putting yourself through the paces to try to close the gap between you and the leader in your market, they're five times better than you. That's number one. So the gap will continue to increase. But when you look at like the AI, like these AIs that can kind of think for us, you know, think in quotations, what's gonna happen is the people who are going to use that the best are the ones who have the wherewithal to ask it the best questions. Right? So not just asking any type of question, it's going to be the best questions, which means they'd have to know well enough to work with the AI and not have the AI kind of work, you know, them work for the AIs. Right? And so that's going to be the separator between those who succeed next, and everybody else, I believe.

Lesley Logan 41:03  

Yeah, I think you're right. It's like the difference between asking it to tell you a nighttime story. And they also ask you to tell your nighttime story read by a pirate, who understands that they're trying to get, you know, like, just like really getting what you needed to know. Yes, exactly. Like, we, I haven't used it yet. Because I actually really love to write. And I really know who I'm writing to. And it's actually slower for me to edit anyone else's writing, but my husband used it, and he's like, here, make me a two sentence description based on this outline, boom. And so like, what he got back was, like, amazing and very useful and needed very few edits. When he said, make me a two paragraph description of this outline. There were some edits there, because he's like, I wouldn't use that word on this one. But then when you make me a blog post, it got, you know, like you, it's, if you can figure out, but you have to actually have the cognitive ability to understand what you want, why you want it, what's the best thing it's going to happen? Otherwise, it's just going to be a different Google search.

Douglas Mapp 42:05  

Correct. It's going to, well, so we'll see, you know, we'll see where it's taken us where it will take us, but history will show this probably not going to help us as much as we think it is. Maybe right here, now, it's gonna be fine. But like, next generation will probably hurt us (...)

Lesley Logan 42:24  

That's what I worry about, though, right? Because we already know, like, what screens do to our eyesight and, and to our ability to sleep and all of these things, right? So then it's like, if we're not using and like, I'm okay with not memorizing, people's phone numbers. I'm, there's other things I can like, you know, maybe memorize instead, but like, I do worry that I do actually worry, people will use their brains less. And I'm actually like, it just makes me a little like, sad. Because it is such a powerful tool, as you know. And like, I think when people, I think when people lose their ways when they feel like they don't have purpose. And they don't feel like they have purpose because everything is doing everything for them.

Douglas Mapp 43:04  

Yeah, it is, right, I want to amend what I said and said that, you know, it'll take us down this dark path, but only if we don't train our brains alongside it. Because, you know, so if we do nothing, and go down the same path of you, we're gonna have some problems. But if we do, if everybody does what me and Philippe say, they'll be fine. But um, you know, it's got to take but it takes effort. And that's the thing that, that there's no pill for this. I know, everybody wants to take some magic pill that's gonna, you know,

Lesley Logan 43:36  

What's the supplement we can all take for our brain? I didn't ask because you know

Douglas Mapp 43:41  

Philippe we got one for sale on the website? it almost seems like we should get in that game. But that game is such a you know, is not genuine, because it's not going to give you the overall performance that you want. Which is just, you know, more fitness, brain fitness, is just going to get you to where maybe you have tricked yourself into thinking more so than likely that you've done something great. Yeah, the placebo effect is real. You know, I think from an analogy standpoint, getting better sleep they'll probably do what those pills are trying to do. If you thought about for people who live in like the northeast and some places where it snows and they they put brains all over the ground and it throws up on your car then like the next day you think I need a power wash my car so this stuff doesn't ruin my car. That's why you need to sleep be so that your brain can have those those toxins pushed out right so if we can see these more harsher images maybe we need to do like a "this is your brain, this is your brain on no sleep" type of commercial.

Lesley Logan 44:41  

Hey, as a child of the 80s it really hit, I did not do drugs. I only drank.

Douglas Mapp 44:47  

You only drink

Lesley Logan 44:49  

Have you ever noticed like if you look at a kid from the 80s who saw all those commercials with a (...) So every ad person ladies I know that Was it like I don't I don't do drugs but I drink I think all like it didn't do they didn't do the same thing for drinking.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 45:06  

They definitely didn't run the same ads for drinking...(Lesley: Yeah, they did not). And it was just eggs. It was just eggs frying on a pan for the (...)

Lesley Logan 45:14  

Yes, that's it. That's all it was, it's not complicated. Um, it's probably a different visual that we all think our brain is actually doing but yes, don't do drugs guys. Some of them are great. And and I'm really excited to see what they're doing with the with the vets but before I let you guys go, I just want to make sure that we highlight you have an amazing podcast. It's called The Brain Prophets podcast and people can nerd out on the brain with you guys, every single week over on your podcast. Yes? Anywhere they listen to podcasts.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 45:51  

Yeah, we bring on some phenomenal guests like we've had, we've had like psychic mediums. We I mean, we've had you.

Lesley Logan 46:03  

Yes. We've to go back to the psychic mediums.

Douglas Mapp 46:06  

Oh, that's interesting.

Lesley Logan 46:08  

Well, you study the brain, like, is this possible?

Douglas Mapp 46:12  

Anything's possible, as possible. Do you know how strong your brain could possibly be? 

Dr. Philippe Douyon 46:16  

Yeah. And when we think about our senses, right? we think about sight, smell, touch, hearing, taste. But there's so much more to our ability to sense what is going on around us.

Lesley Logan 46:31  

There's a psychic, you guys should interview. She is uh, her name is Jen something, I'll find it for you. She's James on James Wedmore podcast. She's his girlfriend. And she talked and she broke down like the different psychic abilities because you can be psychic with smells like you can smell something. And then it's actually like, it's not the smell is not there. Like you just like your sense picks it up. And then it's like that will alert you to a psychic ability that you have or a hearing thing. And you can hear something before people say it. Or there's the thought one. And then there's there's another one. It's a really fascinating and I was like oh, because sometimes I hear things before they're said. And I was like I just thought I was going crazy. But now I just think I'm psychic.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 47:16  

I'm reading a book right now called Mental Distal Influence. The ability to connect with people. Yeah, that are nowhere near you.

Lesley Logan 47:25  

That is crazy. That's like a twin thing.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 47:30  

That's like a twin thing.

Lesley Logan 47:32  

So we're gonna take a quick break, we're gonna find out all the places you can work with them. And also their Be It action items. Alright guys, so I know it's at the top, but just in case, people are like skipping through. Where can people find you, follow you, work with you, get connected with you? Go ahead, Douglas.

Douglas Mapp 47:55  

So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Douglas Mapp, one S two Ps on LinkedIn. And you can find me on the Twitter streets which I don't say too much on there other than maybe some sports things and then from time to time, I say some interesting things. But that's @DMAPP2, D M A P P 2 on Twitter. And of course you can go visit the website at thinkupexcellence.com And you can hit me up on my email just at dmap D M A P P @thinkup.tn.com

Lesley Logan 48:27  

Very cool. And Dr. Philippe, where can people find you, follow you, work with you?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 48:32  

So people can go to my website inlebrainfitinstitute.com So I N L E BrainFit Institute.com They can find me on Instagram Philippe.md They can find me on Tik Tok. I've even started tweeting, I've made it this thing to I need to tweet something every day. So yeah, they can find me on all the social media platforms.

Lesley Logan 48:52  

And also the Tick Tock well, for Nervy the neuron or...

Douglas Mapp 48:55  

I can't wait to see you breakdancing

Dr. Philippe Douyon 49:01  

No, I don't think I'll be breakdancing.

Lesley Logan 49:02  

No, I'm one of those like I refuse. I will I will I will get my message out without pointing and dancing. Okay, so bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to Be It Till You See It. What do you have for us?

Dr. Philippe Douyon 49:21  

This is something I've started doing recently. I take freezing cold showers.

Oh, Brad's been doing this. I hear a yelp through the house every morning.

But they, they are amazing. And when we think about the brain, right? So the brain is like 2% of your body weight. It only weighs about three pounds and yet it consumes about 20% of your energy. Much more if you're a child, much more if you're, you know, sort of actively doing something. And so, when you are taking a cold shower, you are, the blood is going from your periphery to your core. It's reducing inflammation throughout your everywhere. But all that blood is going into your core and gets pushed up to your brain, feeds your brain everything that it wants. And you just feel cognitively alert. You feel a lot more awake. And it's been it's been just awesome.

Lesley Logan 50:18  

Yeah, I've been making excuses to not do this. But as you're saying this as like, oh, I can use the guest bathroom shower to do this cold shower in the morning. So I'm not waking up everyone. So thank you for that. I like I love that. That's wonderful. And also it prepares you for sleep that night. Everyone just so you know, like, it's actually part of the morning routine that prepares you for nighttime that helps you sleep. At least that's what I learned when I was learning during the whole sleep thing. Douglas, do you have a Be It action item for us?

Douglas Mapp 50:49  

Yeah, yeah. So understand your cognitive abilities, like I would say go for either a cognitive assessment, learn about your cognitive strengths and weaknesses. Then create a cognitive or a mental regimen, to put yourself through in order to level up. And if you ever need help with that, you can come visit us, find us on the social media streets. And we can help you figure that out.

Lesley Logan 51:20  

Wonderful. All right, you too. It's just so fun. I really love nerding out on the things that can actually help us sometimes get out of our own way. Literally. And really do more in this life because we have so much to give and so the more we can actually understand our brain and really propel it forward so that it can take us to the next levels is really appreciated. So thank you both so much, y'all. How are we going to use these tips in your life? Tag us the Be It pod make sure you tag the guys here from The Brain Prophets and let them know how this affected you what made you think and then until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Dr. Philippe Douyon 51:54  

Thank you for having us. Yeah,

Douglas Mapp 51:55  

for sure. Thanks, guys.

Lesley Logan 51:57  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 51:57  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 51:57  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 51:57  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 51:57  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 51:57  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai