Be It Till You See It

Elle Russ knows firsthand the confusion and heartbreak of thyroid issues. With top experts failing her, she took matters into her own hands. Walk with her through a story of transformation into a thyroid expert, and tireless dedication to helping others find their path to wellness.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

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In this episode you will learn about:

• How getting your thyroid health in check is key to feeling top-notch.
• Why do you need to test your thyroid hormone level?
• Understanding the impact of hormonal imbalances.
• Six essential thyroid tests to assess thyroid health.
• The importance of being proactive in checking your lab tests. 

Episode References/Links:

• Check out Elle Russ’s website
• Free Thyroid Master Class
• Check out Elle's book: The Paleo Thyroid Solution: Stop Feeling Fat, Foggy, And Fatigued At The Hands Of Uninformed Doctors - Reclaim Your Health!
• Confident As Fu*k: How to ditch bad vibes, clean up your past, and cultivate confidence in order to make your dreams a reality by Mark Sisson
• Private MD Labs
• DirectLabs
• The Perfect Human Diet™ Documentary by C. J. Hunt
• Recovering with T3: My Journey from Hypothyroidism to Good Health Using the T3 Thyroid Hormone by Paul Robinson
• Beat Autoimmune: The 6 Keys to Reverse Your Condition and Reclaim Your Health by Palmer Kippola
• Seasmus Mullen’s books
• Lindsay Moore episode 177 "The Red Flags of Your Health Provider"
• Thyroid Course - https://ultimatethyroidcourse.com

Guest Bio:

Elle Russ is a #1 bestselling author, world-renowned thyroid health expert, and master coach. She is the author of Confident As Fu*k and The Paleo Thyroid Solution – a book which has helped thousands of people around the world reclaim their health. Elle has written for Entrepreneur magazine and has been featured in Success, HuffPost, Mind Body Green, Prevention, and more. Elle offers online courses and free masterclasses at ElleRuss.com

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Episode Transcript:

Elle Russ 0:00  

So when someone comes to me, and they go, I'm hopeless, I've been struggling for 10-20 years, I need to adequately tell your audience this right now. There are only two reasons, one of two or both reasons why you are suffering or have suffered for a long time. Number one, you're dealing with an uninformed doctor that does not know how to test, assess, and treat you to help you. Number two, and this is harsh one, it's the worst one. You're uninformed. You don't know about your disease, and I didn't either. And that's why I suffered for two years in my life. And that's why you've suffered for 10 or 20. It can end quickly. You have to learn it.

Lesley Logan 0:18  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right loves, I'm going to keep this intro short and quick because our episode is full of information to support you and your thyroid. I have Elle Russ back you guys loved her we got so much love from her Confident podcast and we had mentioned that she is an amazing thyroid expert, she has a book, she has of course, she has all these things and so today's a whole episode is to support you. If you have felt like you were unseen, unheard, when it comes to your thyroid, maybe you're on thyroid medication and you still don't feel optimal. So you're not crazy. You are not, you are absolutely somebody who is looking for information and unfortunately not all of your doctors are as informed, So, this episode is here to arm you with the tools you need, the evidence you might need to go into the doctor or provider that you have to support you on your journey and also all the free and amazing tools that Elle has, she's got a book, she's got a course, and she's got free tools and all that is at the end, so take a listen and let me know how this goes in your body and in your life. Tag the Be It pod and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

All right be it babe, I'm so excited. We actually have a guest back. We had so much love we had so much love pour in for this woman that and at the end of the episode we are gotten into thyroid, we like, didn't have time to get to that. So we had to bring her back to talk about thyroid as I'm in hypothet, all the things she's the expert in it. So she's gonna use all the right words. But Elle Russ will you tell everyone who you are in case is their first time hearing your name on the show? And what you're rockin at?

Elle Russ 2:19  

Yeah, hey, so Well, I'm rocking out a couple of things, life in general. My name is Elle Ross and I am a number one best selling author. The first book I wrote is called the Paleo Thyroid Solution. And I've been coaching people all over the world for over a decade and solving thyroid issues. And I also have a really in depth course on it, a free masterclass, which we'll get into later. And then my second book is competent as F U. C. K. And so that's why you know, you swear, but whatever, just Yes. And so we talked about confidence and stuff last time, which is great. And something I know you are just such a firecracker inspiration on that side of things too, for people. And then I have more books and more courses coming out. It's like, you know, endless amounts of, you know, wonderful things. But that's how I got into it because I suffered and no one could help me and I live in Los Angeles and I went over two dozen endocrinologist and experts and nobody helped me, they misdiagnosed me and they steered me wrong. And so I had to become an on thyroid expert. By the way, I have a philosophy degree. Okay, so you're talking to someone here who hates math and science. If you ask me what 15% of 70 bucks is I'm like, I don't know, someone get a calculator. I don't like it. I was horrible at in school teachers would be like, Oh, you'll you'll be sweeping floors at a amusement park if you don't get math, science, right. And then I write a best selling book on science. So everyone can eff off from grade school on that one, all the teachers. But but but the truth is, is that you don't you don't need to be an MD and have organic chemistry salt problem solvability you know, abilities. And you don't have to, like take the you know, MCAT to be able to understand on a theoretical level how this works. This is actually quite easy. But it's confusing at first. And there's so much misinformation out there. So 200 million people in the world have this 2 million plus people 25 million. Yeah, well, it's gets worse. 25 million plus Americans have it. It used to be like 10 years ago, it was the number one prescription in America. Now the number one prescriptions in America are all based on autoimmune disorders, not a shocker. And so and 60% are undiagnosed. So it's like there's so many more people suffering. Now there's the other situation. And this might be some people listening, you're on thyroid hormone replacement, but you never felt great. And you will feel right, you can be hypothyroid on thyroid hormone replacement, it means that you are not on the correct amounts or dosages, etc. And I'm going to say one more thing here, which is this, I'll just go on or I don't want to lecture the whole time, but the thyroid which is your gland right here in your neck, if you're a man it's below your Adam's apple is a butterfly shaped gland and it is responsible for everything okay? It's the master gland for a reason. It's responsible for the production and regulation of all of your sex hormones. So, you're 30, hormones are off, and your doctor is like, oh, we need to give you progesterone, you have estrogen dominance, bla bla bla - check the fucking thyroid? Okay, that was my first symptom. I started bleeding all the time at age 30. I have perfect gynecological history in my own life and also in all the women in my life, like my family. Yeah. Okay. No one asked the question. Why is she bleeding every two weeks? At 30 years old? They gave me a birth control pill to patch the symptom of the thing they didn't find the root of. So you have to always check the thyroid. So not only production and regulation of all your sex hormones, which is everything right? Your heart rate high. Yeah, that's everything, your blood pressure and your body temperature. And so you know, these things are all very important, right? to regulate who we are. We're not too hot, not too cold. Or too hot, let's say right. You're hyperthyroid. But the predominant issue was hypothyroidism, Graves disease and or hyperthyroidism the overactive is less common, okay? And it's just, it disproportionately affects women, we're talking one in eight women in their lifetime will have a thyroid issue.

Lesley Logan 6:02  

This isn't safe to say, because I have had many people tell me, they're getting their thyroid removed. And I'm like, That can't be like, that's a big decision. I feel like that's a big decision to remove it.

Elle Russ 6:14  

You want to keep the gland if you can, so the times that it's okay, so here's the thing, the times that it is, and people with thyroid cancer would hate that I say this because people with thyroid cancer because they're always told, Oh, it's the best cancer to have. If you catch it, you just take off the gland, right? If it spreads too short, but you catch it soon enough. And they're always like, I'm tired of hearing that it's the best cancer but technically, it really is. So in the case of thyroid cancer, they just removed the gland, which, which then makes you hypothyroid. And now you have to go on thyroid hormone replacement. The other thing that they do, sometimes they'll remove half a thyroid. Yep. Okay, that's probably going to need some help, too. Yeah. All right. And then you also have a situation where people who had uncontrollable hyperthyroidism, okay, which can lead to heart attacks. And if it can't be controlled through meds, or diet or other things, eventually what they do is they go, you know, what, we have to basically blast your thyroid with radioactive iodine to kind of kill it, again, making you hypothyroid, much safer, okay. But now you are also in my world, now you're gonna have to be on thyroid hormone replacement for the rest of your life. And you have to be, so if you have your thyroid removed, and let's say you're on a so because it's the master gland in control of all of these things, all right? if you're on an Australian Island, and you don't have a thyroid gland, you don't have your medication, you're going to be the first one to die.

Lesley Logan 7:28  

This is so crazy. This is so because...

Elle Russ 7:31  

So what do you think life's gonna be like? if you have subpar, or you know, really bad levels of thyroid, it's a slow death. And that's what it feels like, it's accelerated glycation and aging, it's horrible. And then then you have all these things that happen. And Doctor is like, Oh, you got depression (...). And they're trying to patch this stuff. And so here's the thing, it's not just the master for these hormones and the hormone problem, and they do the wrong thing. Now you're depressed, they go, Well, it's not your thyroid, because we're not testing earaches, I don't know what's up. And then you go to the therapist, and they're gonna give you Prozac, it'll last for three months, and then it will work because you never got to the root of the problem. We have more receptors in our brain for the biologically active hormone than anywhere else, you can treat depression, I have been coaching for 10 years, when anyone starts to get better, because they're getting more levels of T three, the active hormone, they'll call me and be like, this should make you happy. And I'm like, yeah, it does. Because you cannot access happiness. When you are hypothyroid. Literally cannot, it does, you, it would mean nothing to say to someone like well try to think of a happy thought. You can't do it. So again, have you gone to a psych I've asked, I asked the head of a LA psychiatric hospital. Hey, dude, before you pit people on, you know, SSRIs and medication, do you check their thyroid? They don't.

Lesley Logan 8:42  

This is and this is I mean, this is definitely something like I for sure, in the States, it's like, oh, you have these symptoms, let's fix this problem. But they're not looking at the root of the problem and going higher up the chain. It's, it's kind of like, you know, when someone who wasn't able to class and the person was saying that their shoulder hurt and the in the front, and the yoga teacher said the problem is in the back and off and he's like, look, the problem that is causing the where the pain is, is not where the problem is, the pain is just like, Hello, you're not listened to me for a long time. And so now I'm down here, but the problem is further down the chain or up the chain and we tend to focus on No, My knee hurts I go the knee doctor, I'm bleeding too much. So I go to the gynecologist and we it's unfortunate that the medical world is so siloed because it would be nice if somebody knew it all.

Elle Russ 9:31  

Really you have to find like a DEA or a functional medicine doctor that takes insurance and if not, you have to go above and beyond and pay for it. If you go to your regular insurance Doctor down the street, you're looking for a prescription or surgery. They don't really have anything for you. They have 10 minutes. They're dictated by insurance companies. They practice medicine under the guise of saving money for everyone else and also the fear of getting sued. When you have your own practice as a doctor you don't operate that way. You don't, I mean, you you're like I don't I'm not beholden to anybody and I don't have to worry about like, right? So, um, so we know...

Lesley Logan 10:03  

Real quick, just in case anybody is like, do I, how do I know if I've had if I'm hypothyroid? Like what are just like signs symptoms? 

Elle Russ 10:09  

Sure. So I'll give the test that you can take, you know, and also have a free thyroid masterclass which has all this stuff in there. Okay, so the main symptom, all right, like one of the main symptoms, there is that there's like a, there's like 30/40 that I listed my book and I had 30 of them, okay, like,(...) exactly. Real long list. But it would start with, you're exhausted and you have the inability to lose weight no matter what you do. Now, for the people that don't have the weight issue. It's going to be exhaustion, brain fog, and you will have issues like constipation, gut digestion, you will be freezing. What do I mean by this? Look, your hands and feet are always cool, you know, usually, right? Like, I'm not saying you need to have hot hands and feet, but even for the person that's always freezing all the time. And here's the thing. My hands and feet are cold right now. I'm not cold inside. If I took my temp, it's fine. You feel the chill. You're freezing all the time. So for example, when I was hypothyroid, my body never got above 96 frickin degrees. In the middle of summer I was wearing socks to bed I was freezing. 96 degrees. Were supposed to be 98.6 at in like three in the afternoon. Okay, the morning it's different. We're supposed to be maybe between 97.7 and 98.2. I was never above 96. So you're freezing all the time. And it's diagnostically you can tell you just (...). So you're freezing all the time, dry cracked skin, hair falling out, losing the outer eyebrows, curly hair, turning straight, just clumps of hair falling out. This is one of the biggest things everyone notices, horrible constipation that no amount of coffee colonics and laxatives will help you with. That's a horrible, frustrating symptom. I'm just going to tell you that right now. Because I did, I tried all those things and nothing. Meanwhile, you just keep getting fatter and fatter, more bloated and more bloated. And so the brain fog part is the only way I can describe it. And it's the easiest way to describe it. Everyone in the world has had a head cold, right? You know, when you're blowing? You're like, where's it all coming from? How is it all day long, right? That day, when you're just like staring in space. Nothing's fun. Nothing's interesting. Brain not working. No, you don't want to watch a movie. That's brain fog. Except you don't have the stuffiness and how horrible is that, everyone knows how that feels, even you know how that feels, Lesley. You've been there, that day, that moment, you're just like, brain dead, your, your frickin brain dead. That's like 24/7 The other thing too, is that it takes you like two three hours to get out of bed. You know, I mean, you have almost no cortisol because when you have no, your adrenals will ultimately fail. And because people go undiagnosed for so long, they get really bad. Usually people don't catch and fix it when they feel the cold, right? If you were able to catch it right there or on the first couple of symptoms are caught up and exhausted for, then great, but it goes on. And as it goes on. Your body's, like, this bitch needs energy. So the cortisol gets pumped out, you get fat around the middle, and now your adrenals are fatigued and you've got adrenal fatigue too. But the adrenals in order to produce cortisol need T three. Okay, so these things go hand in hand. Sometimes you have a doctor trying to treat the adrenal sore, and you're like, dude, let's get with the program here...(Lesley: and T three is the hormone that we're talking about, the thyroid hormone) it's just, it's the biologically active thyroid hormone. And I'm happy to get into the others because it's not something that you, it's not something you take necessarily directly, I do, but some people do a combination of T four and T three, but it's the act of hormone where T four is the storage hormone. It's the thing that it's like a slow release mechanism. It stores up and as you need it, it converts into the gasoline that you need. Right? So there are so many problems that can stem from this. Also infertility, miscarriages, so lots of people have had hysterectomy unnecessarily by the way, that's always a terrible call when the person is realized that they never needed to have a hysterectomy. And that is a Hashimoto success story in my course,Barbara. She had that happened her and she desperately had wanted kids back then she's now 57. She's over it. But these are hard days, man. My friend came home she had two miscarriages, she had an endocrinologist completely contesting the wrong test discounting her. She's getting fat, she's all these things are happening. And she's depressed. She's got two miscarriages and you know what? It was all a result of hypothyroidism. So if you can plan a pregnancy, you must, don't get like, don't head towards an unnecessary miscarriage you don't need to have. If you can't plan it, okay, then get on it right away. Because when you are pregnant, I have articles about this on my blog on my website, you've just typed in thyroid on the blog and the tunnel come up. But when you're pregnant, you now need more. Right? Because the demands of the fetus, you, everything else you might need more and more and more and then at the end you kind of taper off or you know, but you have to check it more often. So if you haven't checked your thyroid yet, you're having a great pregnancy you're probably fine. But you're probably also like, oh, no, my my OBG tested my thyroid and they're not doing it right. Because that's what I'm here to tell you. And they're not doing it right. So I'm this is one of the easiest quickest things to fix in life. Yet 99% of the doctors are uninformed. And they're steeped in 40 year old outdated protocols and taking tests that don't matter. And so, yeah, so that's where I started.

Like, so if like, we know that, because I do, I help like, the listeners who've listened episodes before, like, I end up having to fly to LA to have my holistic doctor do my blood draw, because I tried twice to do it here. And like, they sent it in without spinning it and like it. Sorry, that's the job you do. Like that's literally your job. So sorry. It's like, like, you do two things. You draw the blood, you spare it. Two things of your job. Yeah. I don't understand. I could have like public figure to draw my own blood. I need the spinner. 

I could have learned in the amount of time that it took, right?

Lesley Logan 15:45  

So for sure, like I you know, it's, it is not, I experienced how inept people can be. If we are we're like, is this a test that we can get done ourselves? Like, can we order online?

Elle Russ 15:59  

Yes, you can depending on what state you're in. Okay, so some states don't allow you to test your own bloodwork. A lot of them are on the east coast, but you have to just check. So California, I can check my bloodwork anytime I want, you can go to privatemdlabs.com, you can go to directlabs.com. And they'll they always have like coupon code somewhere online. So just search for them because they often have a 15% off or something. And you could choose your own test that you want. But what I want to tell everyone, and again, this is all in the stuff that have for free on my website, but just if anyone's listening right now, whether you're on thyroid hormone right now, I need you to go back at some point after this, and you look at your labs, okay, and if your doctor never or doesn't currently, test what I'm about to tell you, unfortunately, you're dealing with an uninformed doctor. And you're gonna probably run into some issues if you're not already in the issues, or you're one of those people who keeps complaining to your doctor about depression. And then they're the Dum Dum that goes, Oh, well, yeah, you have a thyroid problem? No, because if you treated me right, and I was optimized, I wouldn't have the depression part of the problem, I wouldn't have any symptoms, zero, got it. So the whole point of getting optimized or treated on thyroid hormone replacement, by the way, you can do all this naturally, my book, The Paleo Thyroid Solution is all about him and fixes should first naturally if you can't, at least you've primed your body to receive the hormones that can be to metabolize properly. You know?

Lesley Logan 17:12  

I love this because it is I just want to highlight, you're saying this, because I do think a lot of like, Oh, I'm on, I'm on hyper thyroid medication. That's why I feel this way. It's like, well, actually, you're on hypo thyroid medication, because you need to be and you, you could be feeling like a person who's not on it, who has normal levels. That's what you're saying.

Elle Russ 17:30  

That is literally achievable for every single person who has any thyroid problem. That's amazing. They're all fixable, and they're all solvable. So when someone comes to me, and they go, I'm hopeless, I've been struggling for 10-20 years, I need to adequately tell your audience this right now. There are only two reasons, one of two or both reasons why you are suffering or have suffered for a long time. Number one, you're dealing with an uninformed doctor that does not know how to test, assess, and treat you to help you. Number two, and this is harsh one, it's the worst one. You're uninformed. You don't know about your disease, and I didn't either. And that's why I suffered for two years in my life. And that's why you've suffered for 10 or 20. It can end quickly. You have to learn it. I don't want to learn this shit live, or you can make it really go

Lesley Logan 18:19  

Into philosophy. I wanted to talk about like why like why do people do what they do that way? 

Elle Russ 18:24  

And I'm gonna became a copywriter. I was like, oh, no, like, I'm not a health person. I don't want to know, so you know what? I wouldn't be alive right now, if I didn't do this myself. Now, my story is that unfortunately, I had to doctor myself, actually didn't have a doctor to help me. I ordered my medication online from places like Cambodia. No, for real, like Thailand and other places. And I dosed myself. I actually did it myself. So I had and I had to do it twice in 10 years because I ran into a second thyroid problem, which probably in hindsight, makes it great because I'm one of only two authors or three people in the world really like to do this that have ever been had that problem and know how to treat it. It's called the reverse T three issue. So I had to hypothyroidism issues in 10 years and both times I was left in the dust yo, I remember I was in LA, I go to, I went to this doctor who literally is currently the doctor for every, so many famous celebrities. I can't even, I won't mention him. Crazy time celebrities that you all would be like, Oh my god. Well, of course I would go to so and so's doctor. Okay, that doctor. I was having the second problem. I learned what it is. I explained it, showed the evidence and I took off my clothes in front of her, now at this time I had gotten so fat again on thyroid hormone replacement, but so hypothetic. I had gotten so fat again, that my bra looked like something Playboy Bunny would wear where it's just like the tiny triangle on it. That's how fat I had gotten that like the bra, and I said, Look at me, like look at me, and I did it. And she literally this doctor I'm telling you about who's like famous has like, threw up her hands and she said, Oh, it's too complicated. What? And you know, it almost makes me want to cry because how and I said to her this and that this is what I did say to her, I was so pissed. I said, So medical school wasn't complicated. So doing organic chemistry, like problems on the MCAT, what, medical school, this is complicated, not even willing to go find search help, nothing.

Lesley Logan 20:28  

that's so inferior, I do want to cry for you like that's, we've had several episodes about advocating for yourself in the health care industry, because and the reason we're talking about this is like, you can have all the goals in the fucking world. You couldn't listen to ELS confidence episode, like, Yes, I got it. This is what I know I want but if your hormones are off, if your thyroid is not working optimally, it doesn't matter.

Elle Russ 20:53  

It doesn't and your brain is not right. And your emotions aren't right. And nothing's gonna be right. Yeah, can't you can't do life right. And so what happens is, is so and I have a chapter in my book, and even a module in my course about loved ones. This is what's really tough because of all the diagnosis because of the people not being mistreated. So even the ones that are hypo still on medication. You know, they've got a spouse who's like, this is not who I'm married. You know, you're you're a downer, you're a Debbie Downer party pooper, you got promises, you got adrenal issues, like sensitive delights, sounds and smells, you're overwhelmed. I mean, you have no energy, you have no zest for life, you've given up on half the shit you thought was kind of fun, and you wanted to go for in life, this is how it goes. Also, I want to mention one of the symptoms, you can have some cognitive decline that seems scary and something you don't want to voice. So I want to say it now, you will have the thought that you feel you're getting dumber, and it is a horrible feeling. Because technically you are, it's happening, you'll have handwriting that you can't, it's so messy, you'll have brain to hand dexterity. Normally, like I'm an athlete, I'm really coordinated. I was dropping water bumping into things constantly. Okay? Because again, we have more receptors in our brain than anywhere else, these things are all motor skills, all the things. So you know, it's a really scary thing. It's not just the depression, it's the forgetting words, it's the not being able to retain a paragraph after you've read it. Someone has said something to you, I just interviewed. Recently, I put out an extra module in my course with CJ Hunt. He's about seventy years old, but he's a filmmaker of The Perfect Human Diet and the book, and I helped him with his thyroid problem. And he describes it as like, you know, it's just so tough, because every year inside and you don't even you can't even like check an email. You just so overwhelmed. So you have this malaise where you know, you need to help yourself, but you're also kind of having problems and the people around you're like, you've gone to 500 doctors and you know, yeah, no, I, I had a friend this does turn me up. I have a friend who still really good friend now. But when they lived here, we were best friends. And they called me up after this all happened and everything got over it and figured it out. They called me up and they were crying, a guy. And he was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Because I was so resenting you and mad at you that you were such a party pooper. He never wanted to go out. He didn't want to hang out and do stuff. And like all that shit. And I just like lost it. Because you know what, that's what it is for people. That's how it goes down. People around you don't understand. And you're trying to go into everyone, and then that's what happens. And then people lose their jobs, or they quit. I had someone who's a success story about books, she quit her jobs in accounting, she couldn't remember numbers anymore. You're gonna get fired. You know, a fellow author Paul Robinson, who wrote a book called recovering with T three, he also helped me save my own life. He to this day, he lost like 20 years of his life, he actually was given the wrong hormone the entire time. And he lost his family. He lost his job. He couldn't work. He was debilitated. And then he fixed it, of course, and it wrote a book. He's helping people, but it ruined the relationship with his sons and you can start to help to this day when he talks about it that it is so hard for him. Yeah, it's like it's a well, so it ruins lives. This shit ruins lives, because of all of these things. And I've coached lots of families. And sometimes if you're in this situation, you might need a friend to kind of like who is better brain to help you understand but the way that I explained everything in the course and in general my masterclasses, again if if you kept it on repeat, even with a hypo brain, you're gonna get it.

Lesley Logan 24:20  

Yeah. Well, It's so tough. And like, you know, when I have my stomach issues, like I, you get to the point where like, you can't have gluten, dairy, soy, alcohol, oils, all these things, you know, gosh, oh, my goodness, when they try them out of SIBO diet. I was like, Well, this is there's nothing fun. This is like even worse, what am I supposed to show up and eat? And you start to feel like you start to withdraw because you're like, I'm not the fun person. Nobody knows where to eat because I can't eat there. She can't eat here. We can't go here and it just becomes like, you just start to feel like well, I'm just not going to go out because I don't wanna be that person. And so then you don't know who you really are. You feel more and more alone and It is awful, if you if you're lucky to have a partner who's willing to like, go to the mattresses all the time, that's fine. But if you have kids, if you have a stressful job, if the partner that you have the best friends, you have other things going on, it's like this still and 20 years. That's a long time, I was very lucky that I found someone in seven years to help me with mine. But like, even then that's so much time that we can lose. And it's unfortunate because for whatever reason? Well, for many reasons, I think we're very all aware of the medical industry, especially in the states and my listeners who are in Australia and Canada and Europe. You know, you do you, let me know if I can get a passport.

Elle Russ 25:38  

But like, well, they actually have terrible thyroid care in England and other places. So it actually really it's like, yes, your healthcare is better.

Lesley Logan 25:44  

Yeah. So it's almost like the world is just like, not educated on what this is. And it's it sounds like the one place if they could go do that they could solve fertility, and they could solve depression. And not everybody guys don't don't come running at me. But like for a lot of people, we instead of putting band aids on things, we could actually create a solution for someone.

Elle Russ 26:05  

There's a I have x bribed for hours with the doctor and my course is a 30 hour course. Okay, I mean, this thing is, you know, like a semester in college and one of the modules is Palmer Kybella, who wrote a book called Beat Autoimmune, and she is about 55 years old or something like that right now. And she struggled for 20 years of her life, she got diagnosed with MS and 19. She felt like she was plugged into a light socket. 24 hours a day for like a year. Okay, horrible, horrible symptoms. She searched, she searched, dah, dah, dah, and got into some functional medicine stuff. She quit gluten. Within one week, her stomach issues went away. But then within a month, all of her MS Symptoms went away. She hasn't had one since. Okay, and they've even done brain scans on her where they you know, they could see like the scarring. And it actually, it's not even supposed to go away somewhere. Hers is even gone away. That's crazy. You can beat autoimmune. And you could beat thyroid autoimmune, which is Hashimotos. Absolutely. And part of that is diet. One of the things that we know with autoimmune diseases is gluten igniting antibodies, but particularly Hashimotos. But definitely the other ones too. So yes, we know it's possible to get to the root instead of putting someone I mean, you know, I know two people that have cured themselves rheumatoid arthritis through food. One of the most famous ones is Seamus Mullen, who wrote a book. He was a famous chef, and he is a famous chef in New York. He was on medications over 18 prescriptions for I interviewed him for like, God years, like, seven years or something like that, total, debilitated disaster, changes food changed his life, and he's on off all the medications and never and if you tested his blood, RA is gone. You test another friend of mine blood is also chef RA gone. But they both went to the doctor and the doctors go when they diagnose them and dealt with them all those years, those two people. The other one is Chef Courtney (...), they're both chefs. The doctor said, it is what it is, you're just gonna end up in a wheelchair. And one of them was in a wheelchair like they that's it. And I remember my friend going well, would you can you just test it? They're like, No, no, it's going to be positive, you have rheumatoid arthritis.

Lesley Logan 28:11  

That's not what's been fortunate. And this is where the advocacy for yourself comes in. And that's why I'm so excited that you have this course. 

Elle Russ 28:17  

That's why patients write books, because our test is our testimony. 

Lesley Logan 28:20  

Yes. And you have your book, but also like, so I hope this inspires people. And also, like, when we had Lindsay on, y'all can listen, we'll put the episode in the show notes about advocating for yourself, because she gives you tips on how to know, if you have the right doctor, like, your doctor should be doing the best they can. And that best might not be good enough for you. But they should also be willing to help you have another solution, whether it might be for them. And if they are not doing that you have to advocate and say thank you, I see that I've gone as far as I can with you, where else do you recommend that I go? Or if they're not going to give you that then you have to be your own advocate, you have to do the research to figure out who are the doctors that do this because, and I know this can sound really privileged. And all those things. It fucking sucks how much it would cost to be a healthy, healthy and air quotes person to be an optimally moving person, it should not be privileged to have health in this world, but you do have to do these things because it is your life. And as far as we know, we only get one time on this limit. Some people might say this is your third or fourth time but just valleys for right now. You know you I would hate for you to go 20 years failing in some way. Because those are yours you don't get back, you just don't.

Elle Russ 29:30  

And I'm gonna add to that because there's another thing on the advocacy, which is if you learn and you become knowledgeable about what you got going on, you might be able to make a doctor who's an uninformed one, practice medicine with you. This happens with all of my clients, they have tough doctors. I'll then be like, Look, I'll talk to him. I've had doctors call me and be like, I don't understand this and I'm like, You know what? Thank you for not being ego ridden and thinking maybe I might learn something from someone who's not an MD, right? So I love those doctors because they're willing to learn. But a lot of them is because they're gone back and then they're pushing. They're like, Hey, this is what I learned dah dah dah. And then the doctor is kind of like, I don't know, I guess it can hurt and they try it. So you have to be forceful, but there are certain times when you have to go, you're, you know, You're terrible. I'm out of here. But you know, listen, I mean, I've I've gotten into some pretty intense conversations with some doctors over the years. And one of them I was able to convince them she was the most indoctrinated, but I think it was just my persistence. And my probably confident, demanding, like, did it ah, that made her and she was scared because I caught her in something she didn't know. And so and I just want to tell the story. This is great. By the way, when I tell the story, you don't need to know anything about what the tests I'm mentioning mean, okay, you'll get the story. I asked a doctor, I was with a patient who worked for our company who didn't speak English very well. I knew she had a reverse T three problem. I sensed it. I just knew it. I'd go to the doctor with her. The endocrinologist was, didn't look at her didn't ask any questions how she was feeling. I said, Hey, I got a request for you. Can you please test this patient's reverse T three test. And the doctor said, we don't do that. That's old school. And I said, what's really interesting, because I just got over reverse T three problem myself. So it's pretty new school to me. All I'm asking you is to take a test. She said, Well fine, but I don't know how to evaluate it. And I said, Did you just patronize me for asking you about a test that you're now telling me you know nothing about? That's how this goes down. Lesley, you want the patient's bawling her eyes out? And she's like, Well, fine, I'll test it. Can you believe it took all of that for me to, you know, that is that's me calling him God, Lesley do not see the new Star Wars movie and you go I was bad. And I go I haven't seen it yet (...) You see how like you don't even know anything about the test? She goes, No, that's old school completely discounted because she's got too much ego to admit she might not know something. Okay? And then when I push her, she's like, Well, fine, but I don't know about it. Why? What are you? Yeah, I mean, by the way, by the way, the patient had a serious reverse T three problem, guys. And I could have bet a million bucks on it. 

Lesley Logan 32:14  

Yeah, you know, this is where like, it used to be, it's still supposed to be called practicing medicine. And as Pilates instructor, we don't do perfect Pilates, we practice Pilates. And so like that, to me means that like, the doctors and affirming doctors who are listening doesn't mean I expect perfection. What I expect is that you are willing to practice and continue to learn because there's new information out all the time, we find out that things that we believed, decades ago that something is wrong. And so I don't believe and this is why my friend isn't, teaches people that patient advocacy. She also speaks to doctors and she says you are providers. Let's just change your name your providers and they're q1121112q1qqwq clients. And when our client, you have empowerment, you have choice, you have agency, and then you can work together in collaboration with the provider. And so as a provider, if you don't know an answer, it is actually to me, and I think too many people listening to go you know what, I don't know that. Let me do some research. Let me get back to you. Let me look into this. That is better than going you don't need that. And then to find out you don't actually even know how to evaluate it. That's like, you know, and that's not everybody, but that in that situation that you're talking about. It's an infuriating story that I think too many people probably can know someone or it happened to them. And it's either way

Elle Russ 33:36  

Yes, or because they don't know how to do their job and they're like your thyroid looks fine. I had a doctor do this to me. And by the way, the thing that I'm about to say has come out of people's mouths all over the world. This has been just workout more and eat less. I had a doctor tap my gym shoes and go just use these more. I said mofo I'm working out two hours a day, I went hiking for an hour every morning. By the way, shouldn't have been doing all that. Okay, shouldn't have. Now I know I'd be like, Oh man, dial it back, don't do anything get tested, right, do the things but I was trying to get ahead of this weekend, which by the way, none of that working out work. Two hours a day, like 1200 calories. I was doing all the stuff I went swimming, hiking and to the gym every freaking day. And I kept getting weight. And so to accuse me of not working out. But again, this is what happens and like (...) success story as well. She tall skinny, wrong endocrinologist the miscarriages, she starts getting fat and they're like, you just need to eat less. She's like I'm training for a marathon. I know what I'm doing. I've been tall and skinny my whole life like what do you talk..? So it's again, it's coming from an uninformed doctor who's like, well, I'm looking at labs in a way that is so outdated. So I'm saying you're fine. Meanwhile, you're telling me that you have hypo symptoms. Now it's the smart doctor that goes why does this keep happening? Like my doctor and the doctor on my book and in the course Dr. Foresman, who did say hey, there was a day when I screwed up people probably because we didn't know better and then you have clients keep coming in. They're complaining that they're not well and they're still on thyroid and he goes home Hmm, just like you said, He's curious. Still, he's still geeking out like doctors used to in medical school trying to figure out a problem. And he's like, right. But when you have 10 minutes with someone, and you're in a factory thing with an insurance company, you don't have the time for that. Now I did go to my, I have insurance, and I went to my local uninformed doc. You need to go in there. And yeah, here's the Pap smear. Here's the thing. Here's the mammogram, all that stuff. And I went into her with a list of tests from my functional medicine doctor, and I said, Hey, look, I don't want to offend you, I just want to let you know, I wrote a book about informed doctors. Like, here it is, gave her the book. And I said, Listen, I work with a functional medicine doctor that doesn't take insurance. Can I give you this list of tests? And would you mind taking it? You know, yeah. Now this is what I appreciate. She looked over the list for a few minutes. And she said, I'm happy to get these tests. And I just don't know what some of them are. But I'm happy to get them tested. Okay. That's a start admitting but here's the problem, Lesley. I would bet you a million dollars right now she did not after work, go and go, What are these lists of tests that some other MD is telling me to get that I don't know what they are? I went to medical school. Maybe I should look into that. I guarantee she didn't. I guarantee, I bet money on it. I know she didn't. Yeah. And that's the thing, right? Because she didn't have time either. Well, so when she's like, all fine, but she's not trying to investigate. 

Lesley Logan 36:19  

And that's just it. Like, that's everybody. The problem is that we're all so busy, because we don't have time. And that and we treat people like they are in the factory, we treat the doctors like they can just like they could see that many patients like I don't even know how they I don't know how they could do that I would. So the people who've listened for a long time know that I still have yet to find an actual primary care doctor in Vegas. I'm just working with my amazing doctor out of California. And I do have a female doctor here that I actually like, who likes to learn and likes to teach. And she's the only person who could find my IUD, which had like, moved its way to the right side flipped upside down. Like she's the only pro it took me two years to get someone to fight to find it. So it was insane. It was I was like, look, it's in there.

You're like I'm telling you, I can feel it.

So it's in there. So anyways, I do appreciate her a lot. But when I went to primary care doctor, and I knew what tests I wanted to take, because I talked to my listing doctor. And so I was like, why wouldn't I have this primary care doctor call them in? Because they'll go through my insurance, right? The thing I pay so much money for. And she literally poo pooed every test I wanted. Every single test I said I want my hormones check, oh, those change all day long. I want it depends on the day of your cycle. I'm like, I still want them check. I want this checked. Oh, did it look fine. All these things. And I'm like, do you, like, are you paying for this? Or do I not understand who pays the bill here? And she was just like, well, I can order them. But they're not going to tell us anything. Well, guess what I posted doctor ordered them because she can. She's an MD. (...). They told me exactly what I was already feeling. They told me why I was feeling down and depressed. They found, they told me exactly why I felt like I was losing strength. And my holistic doctor was able to, thank goodness she an MD, to prescribe the peptides that I need to take. And we have to watch two numbers and to see how those change in the next three months beyond this stuff. And hopefully, they get better on their own. And if not, then we'll go do those things. But like, it's a little chicken, the egg thing there. However, it's just a little unfortunate that like, unfortunately, some people are just not going to listen to you and you just have to go okay, this is not the right doctor for me. She's just not you know, it's it's never gonna work. I'm never gonna trust her. And so I have to find a news writer. 

Elle Russ 38:33  

Yeah, yeah. Or you have the insurance one and you run stuff through them and deal with someone else. You know, I mean, there's there's also, there's some really great doctors that do take insurance. But yeah, so listen, everyone just right here. I know, I didn't mention the list of tests. I just want to rattle off the six tests that everybody you know, you can go back and go, and I bet you they're going to be missing one or two. I'm gonna guarantee that right now. Alright, so here there are there are six tests. Two of them are antibody tests. So you know what if you've already ruled out that you don't have Hashimotos, then you don't need to take the extra two. But if you've never gotten tested for Hashimoto, you want to rule it out, because there are some other modalities and things you can do with Hashimotos that you wouldn't apply to someone like me who does not have Hashimotos. I just have hypothyroidism. I don't have the autoimmune form of hypothyroidism. So, TSH, free T three, free T four, reverse T three, that's the main four. Now that's due I have a thyroid problem however, you want to get two antibodies checked if you've never gotten them check. Now, some doctors if you say only to test my Hashimotos antibodies, they don't know that there's two of them they only test one you could be positive for one or not the other or both. So you gotta get both. The first one is called T P O antibody that stands for thyroid peroxidase antibody and the second one is tg antibody and that stands for thyroid globulin antibody okay. So TSH, free T three, free T four, reverse T three, the TPO antibody and the TG antibody that is, do I have a thyroid rpoblem? If you think you're hypo thyroid, okay, do I have a thyroid problem? Start there. Now, would I add other things like yeah, you're gonna get should probably get an iron panel. If you've been feeling hypo for a while, like, you can also take five days of basal and afternoon temperatures and not spend a dime, you can diagnostic diagnostically assess a thyroid problem from temperature. So what does that mean? That means you can look it up. But basically you have to when you do basal, you lay down, you don't even get up to pee in the morning, you don't sit up in bed, you reach over and you put the thermometer in your mouth. That's your basal temperature. Right when you wake up. So again, that's like you have to plan for that it because you're so used to get up and go to the bathroom or something, you know what I mean? So you just have to lay down, it's okay that you're on your covers, just reach over that your basal. That should be between 97.7 and about 98.2. Yeah, okay. Now, if you're hypothyroid, it's going to be lower than 97.7. If you were hyperthyroid, it would be like 98.2 or three, it would be really top over or be overkill.

Lesley Logan 41:04  

 I think this is just fun just to do.

Elle Russ 41:09  

 Yeah, and then, I'm talking about a schedule for people that normally would wake up between six and eight. So then, at that point, you would do a 330 ish, three 330, afternoon temp, this is when you're just sitting around, okay, so you have to figure out when this is but like when you just sit around, you didn't take a hot shower, you didn't eat you didn't rip up a flight of slabs or a smoke bomb hit like, okay, like whatever the don't do stuff just hang out. You can drink some water or whatever. But like for the most part, don't you just been doing nothing for 30 minutes, you're just sitting up? That's when you also take your time. It should be 98.6. If it's 98.4. Are you in a crisis? No, no. Okay, there's some fluctuations, hurray, 98, you know, but that's what you should be. Some people will never get above 98 Or even above 97 in the afternoon. So you could do like three, five days of this and go, now you still need to get the test. Because if you don't get the test, we won't know how to treat it in the right way. I guarantee out of the list that I just told you guys, your doctor said probably not tested reverse T three is the one that most doctors really don't know about. And it's one of the most critical tests. The other thing too is you will give this list. This happens all the time. And this is an advocacy thing. You will give the list to your doctor and go hey, do you mind like you heard my thing and you write down all the tests and you go, Hey, can you test these for me? And they go Sure. You go into the lab and then you see the results? And you're like where's this where's that? And they didn't test that instead of testing free T three they tested total T three or T three uptake instead of and they didn't just test the reverse T three in your life. But I asked them and they said, here's what happens guys. They, if they disagree with your list, they don't call you to tell you they disagree with you. They just go, You're a Dum Dum non doctor and I'm gonna do what I want. I don't think they need them. They don't, if I asked you, Lesley Hey, can you give me that favor? And you said yes. And then you didn't do it? And I go, why and you go I just disagreed with it. I go, Well, it would have been nice if you told me that. Yeah, before I expected you to do the thing. So you cannot trust that they even, so what do you do? You ask the phlebotomist, Hi, are these tests on this list? And if not, I just need to know, I don't want you to, I don't even put the rubber band around my arm. You know how many people have called me crying, is horrible. Cuz it's like gaslighting, Lesley. Yeah. Because you're like I asked them. They said yes. And then they didn't. Because just like that endocrinologist, they're like, they don't even know reverse T three. What do they know? And so this is something you have to do, because now you've got to go back in and get tested again. And who wants to have a needle in their arm ever? 

Lesley Logan 43:30  

Like, it's such a hassle. Like, it's just such a hassle. Even if you have to be fast it's even worse. If you have to get there. It's because I'm like, Okay, I'll just get their first appointment. And then you're (...)

Elle Russ 43:40  

Your whole your whole morning screwed, like, the whole thing, right? So that happens all the time. So please check that list. Because I guarantee you, they're gonna go, yeah, like, laugh at you about it. This happens, by the way, with everything. Let's say you're starting to date someone you're like, Alright, we're gonna start to do this, and we're talking about it. And maybe we're gonna get sexy together. And let's get tested and make sure everything's cool. And you call your doctor and you're like, hey, I need an STD pouch, or like, I want an STDs test. Like, if you ask them for a list of tests, you're like, oh, here, I want all these tests. They'll just test like two of them. They go, Oh, you don't need HPV for that because or you don't need this for that like for herpes because if you've never had it, then it's not like that. You're like what? Like, they just don't. And that has happened to people that I know who've gone in there and they're like, I just wanted to like, get a simple, my doctor said it was fine. They go in there and only took like 2 of the 10 that was requested because they, that is so crazy making to me if that happened in my everyday life. I would not talk to people, continue to talk to people who operate it like this. Yeah, it's lying to you. And it's gaslighting and it's also just so that's a real painful thing too. And now you are a couple of weeks behind on getting better because (...)

Lesley Logan 43:40  

I remember I was crying in the kitchen when I found out that they didn't spin the blood, I was like just crying and then I, so that I went to different locations, the same company, because that's the company that's in town to different location, because that's like, well, obviously that locations no one's doing. The second location was like, Oh, we don't do the kits, because I brought a kit that you have to ship, brought the kit and like we don't do the kits on Fridays. I'm like, it doesn't say that on your website. I'm so sorry. Like, it doesn't say they do it. They better have done it. I said, Well, I said, I said, I'm here because you already have screwed up before. So I'm here. I said, Well, I was going to tell you that we could do it, but you have to ship it yourself. And I said, Okay, sure. I'm like, Well, okay, we can figure that out. But like, will you spin the blood? And she said, Oh, well if you want it spun, I will literally took everything in me. I've swear to God, it's 7am I haven't fucking eaten anything. Right? I haven't eaten since the night before. I love breakfast. I love my coffee. I love my ag one. I love it all. She goes if you want us to spin it, and it'd be another hour and I was like, I seriously you. I cannot tell you. You all terror like I'm done. I'm done with life. I'm so dumb. I like I'm believing. I'm like you are incompetent. And I hope I never have to come to this place ever again. Because I can not trust any work that you do. And I said it loud enough. I'm like, I'm sure I sound crazy. These people on the waiting room. But like they need to know that this place doesn't know what it's doing. And so I flew, I use points, everyone I use points to fly to LA, use points to get a hotel, booked myself stay, a nightmare total for blood tests. I mean, I mean, like, you know, so I'm sure I'm sure my Vegas listeners but like, let's just go to this person, please send me your favorite doctors, I will happily go to them. It's I'm sure there's other great places. But like, I'm a little shocked. And also not. And I and I and I don't want to be a Debbie Downer on all of the doctors who may listen. Hi, thank you for listening. But I do hope that every single person is like, let's, what if we were all curious. I'm curious on my Pilates practice. I'm curious about learning. I'm sure. I'm also sure doctors want to be curious. And also they're fucking tired. So I feel like it's there's a there's a problem from the top of squeezing all of us. And and unfortunately, the people who lose are the clients, are the patients. And that's, you know, so I feel more badly for the clients in this case, but I do understand that like it is a issue that we all are dealing with. And in some ways, some people are doing better. And I'm so grateful for you Elle, so you have you actually have an amazing course that you mentioned.

I do want to quickly tell everyone that I had done plies many years ago, then you interviewed me and I got so inspired to do Pilates. And I manifested the most awesome situation. I had done Pilates near me and I knew what was available. So I was like, alright, well, I'll go check back into those places again, and see if I want to go back to same place or whatever. Turns out a new Pilates studio had just opened seven weeks prior. It's in the perfect location. It's the exact kind of thing I want. Their pricing payment structure was like so great, not some bullshit that they replaced it and all this stuff. So I started doing it like you know, a couple of weeks out I reached out to and I was like, oh my god, I love it so much. I can't even stand it. Oh my god, wait to have one of those machines. It is so much fun. So I am, thank you for inspiring me, really inspiring me. And then when I looked for it, and then very shortly after that their monthly unlimited. She's like, hey, Valentine's Day special, like 60% off our monthly unlimited. I was like, Oh yeah, we're doing that. So I did. Like I'm just gonna do it for now for a while and just here it goes but so so much fun. And I I love it. So thank you.

Elle Russ 47:28  

Oh, you like my pleasure. I'm on a mission for more wise do Pilates. So that makes me so happy. And I love to do it in person and it's close like, and that you're going as often as you are because that's like, that's where you fill out the good stuff. I mean, just Yeah. Yesterday, I was like in a bad mood because I couldn't get on my session with my teacher. And I and I that was not that was technology's fault. So I went and did my own session and I had so much fun and I felt a much better mood afterwards. I was like, This is why Pilates exists. So you can just feel better when you're done.

Absolutely. Yeah, I love it so much. It's so good and especially you know, like I'm in my late 40s, like this is yeah, yeah, you don't take care of this stuff. Now the flexibility and all the different stuff like it's a forced way to get the stretching the core that everything is you know, it's just anyway it feels so good. I say thank you so much. But yes, I do want to do is I have everyone can get 15% off of my thyroid course if you really need to dive into this by using the code Lesley at checkout just Lesley's first name the way she spells it. L E S L E Y. Yeah, that'll get you 15% off, you can go to the, you can just go to ultimatethyroidcourse.com and check that out. Now here's the thing when you go to ultimatethyroidcourse.com There is juicy stuff on that page that might help you solve your problem without even taking my course guys. Okay, like not kidding. There are some testimonials or doctor clips there's there's some things that might spawned something for you to go. You never know I've had people hear interviews with me and be like I heard you I went did this did that fixed it. Thank you. I'm like great. (...) everyone wants to sell books and stuff and products, but we're, and I know you if there was someone struggling, you would help them recover with Pilates probably out of the kindness of your heart because whatever, right you just want, like, I just want people to be better. Yeah. So, so yeah, so that was, anyway, you can just go down the page all the testimonials, audio clips, etc. Then I also have a free thyroid masterclass, as well, I still want to go to the ultimate thyroid course page because there's great, you know, audio clips on there. But you can just go to freethyroidmasterclass.com. And that is a two hour video of me explaining the thyroid, all the hormones, everything, all this stuff. And it involves a free thyroid guide that also includes the guide all the healing diets like paleo, carnivore, low FODMAP, low histamine, it gives you a Guide To Paleo, some exercise regimens, some potential meal plans based on you know, male, female, sort of give you an idea how would a week or to look like doing paleo or a carnivore or whatever. And it also in that free thyroid guide, with the free thyroid masterclass, it's just part of the downloads that I have. There's a down healing guided meditation download, but there's also this free thyroid guide with the diets. And in that guide, is not only the test, it's here the list of questions to go call it office to even suss out whether they are Dum Dums, or whether they might know what to talk about. It's not foolproof, but it's enough to go well, I can definitely cancel that one because they definitely don't know that. So it's a guide to like, how do you get your blood tested? Should you take your medication before what time of day, everything that you need to know. And that's all free at freethyroidmasterclass.com. But if you really have been suffering for a while, you really need to dig into this, then you need to take the course and it's less than, especially with the discount, but it's way less than a functional medicine appointment with a doctor. And it's also a way to get discounted sessions with me because otherwise some people, it's expensive to coach with me privately if you want to call me to talk to me one on one flat rate. But if you take the course, you're getting the knowledge plus, then you'd get like 85% off an hour with me, like a 30 minute session. It's like 85%. So you're getting both, that's what I would prefer. Yeah, now it's fine. If someone was to call me and pay a big hefty sum for that, that's fine. But I want you to learn this. Because if you have this thing you need to go and you might need to go back to it. You might have a second problem a few years from now, maybe the thyroid hormones, you were taking work. But now something went wrong, I gotta go back to my course. And I got to fix that problem because I had to, ya know, fix that second problem. So it's just this, honestly, everything I've ever and it's me going through, it's over 30 hours, right? There's like 22 modules. In some of those. There's me literally going through all of the thyroid hormone dosing protocols for all of the different hormone combinations. It's me going through 25 examples of bloodwork showing you this is, here's this person, she's 45. This is what's going on. How do you look at this? that you start to learn, You know? you're like going oh, okay, I get it. I get it.

Lesley Logan 52:55  

You are phenomenal. Thank you for this generous offer everybody who if this touched you if this makes you curious, go check it out. Or and also check out the free stuff like I am someone who also has like, like, life has changed by just a nugget of information. So really quick before I let you go, you've given us so many things. But you know how we like a bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted step to be until we see it, what do you have for us Elle?...(Elle: for what?) just like anything like to there what it's like for the even the thyroid, or just like to take messy action, you know, they're the quick little action stuff they could take for themselves today.

Elle Russ 53:36  

Perseverance pays, always, the only reason I'm here is because I would not let up and it's usually people that end up with me, they're also that they've been searching, searching. They found it, right? I was not willing to give up on myself and you can't either, okay, but if you've already found me and you're listening to this, then you don't need to because you're getting the right information, but spread the word and also, I would say once you heal from something or you gain something that's knowledgeable, just help someone with that who's suffering with that, you know what I mean? I've done so many interviews I'll hear someone say they got a problem and I'll go oh, you know what, hold on a second. I interviewed someone wrote a book on that. You know what I mean? So just do your best, you don't have to coach everybody but help people out because you're going to meet, especially if you're a woman listening, you're going to meet tons of other women with, I bet you half your friends are on thyroid hormone replacement or you don't even know it.

Lesley Logan 54:20  

Yeah, yeah. So we can share this episode with them,everybody. Go check out her freak tools, her book and also her course if this is something that speaks to you or share it with a friend. And you know let us know how this affected you, let us know what this, what changed you, what maybe sparked something a conversation with your doctor. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Elle Russ 54:41  

Thank you.

Lesley Logan 54:42  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.  I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 54:42  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 54:42  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 54:42  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 54:42  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 54:42  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Lesley spotlights Yasmine Scholten from the Elevate program, who's mastering the art of adaptability in teaching. As Yasmine tailors her methods to her clients' daily needs, Lesley delves deep into the core reasons behind her work and the connections she cherishes. Together, they underscore the significance of flexibility in teaching and the essence of remembering our "why."

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why documenting personal wins can be a beacon of motivation during challenging times.
• How to transition to a practice-based teaching approach for better adaptability to clients' needs.
• The importance of supporting others' dreams and the lasting impact it can have.
• Lessons from the West Coast Tour: the value of persistence and overcoming doubts.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Laurie, an agency member
• Mentions, Yasmine Scholten, an eLevate member
• Balance Body Pilates
• West Coast Tour

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

https://

Join us at our West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour - Aug. 8-20, 2023

Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:01  

Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Get ready for some wins.

Lesley Logan 0:05  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:58  

Hello. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Podcast. It is Fuck Yeah Friday, and I'm so excited to share some wins of mine and of yours. Of course, gonna start off with yours and what I love about this episode every single Friday is that the people send their wins and they send them in and then I release them whenever they come up in the lineup. And so that could be months away from when they actually had the win. And the other day, I got a message from somebody who's win was released on the podcast. And they said, Oh my God, thank you so much because I was having a really rough week. And I was kind of wondering, like, what am I doing this for? And then I was listening to podcasts, I heard my name and my own win. And it reminded me of like, what really matters to me. And so thank you, Laurie for sharing it with me because that's exactly what this whole podcast is mostly for. It's to inspire everybody to share their wins with other people, but most importantly, document them because they're gonna be days where like, what the fuck is going well for me right now. If you're hearing this voice, it's because yeah, I definitely got a cold on our way back from a trip. And so it is at the time of this recording on its way out of my body, which I'm very excited about first. Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about your wins. So, Yasmine Scholten, she is in my round two of my Elevate program, which is my mentorship program for teachers. And she wrote, I never prepare my sessions anymore. I trust myself and work with my clients on their goals and struggles they have on that day. I also encourage them to let me know their struggles and refer them out to address individual needs for them on a caddy chairs and barrels. Yasmine, that is massive. It's such a time saver, and it allows your clients to be in process and for you as well. Our bodies change every single day, you guys, they change all the time. And it is crazy for us to like, put some sort of regimen together and just expect that body to be able to do it that day when we don't know if they slept the night before. If they weren't a little minor car accident, like all the different things I had a client who like I prepared her session, she came in with a broken arm well session is out the window. So it's so much better when you can be so in touch with the method that you can actually teach their body on that day and really progressive in a great way. So Yasmine, thank you for sharing your win. Okay. I've two wins. And one, I haven't shared one with you, because it's been about, we got back from Scotland, of course, and we had taken my dad there. And it was just so fun to see him in a country he's really, really wanted to go to. And on day two to be like, so excited to join himself. He's like, are you coming back next year, come back in two years top, you're gonna come because I want to come again. And I just love that. Because sometimes we don't realize the gifts that we can give people just by, you know, listening to a goal that they have, and figure out a way to make it happen. So that was so fun to see that happen. And also like such a great, it's really exciting to, for him to have to look forward to and to plan for. So I'm just stoked. My other win is this we are almost completed with our West Coast tour. And we almost didn't do it. We almost like back in April or May almost decided it was gonna be too much work. There was too many obstacles in the way there was too many reasons to not do it is just going to be hard. And they're this like gut instinct to me like, Well, we still have we got to do it that we just got to do it and Brad and I were like, well, maybe we just don't do it. And I was like no, we I think we got to do it. We kinda went back and forth. And we committed to doing it and not only did we do it, we did it the biggest tour we've ever done. And we had an amazing sponsor, I thank you Balanced Body and we had some amazing people support with some prizes and some fun stuff. And we had a really great time meeting people. In all these different states, we were up all the way up and down California, Oregon, Washington, and then we got to St. George Utah. We have that left still. So I can't wait. Because I love St. George, it's such, it's such a cute city. But I just the win in it is that we didn't let the heart keep us from doing something that we were wanting to do. We want to do it for a really, really long time. In fact, since we finished our first tour in 2019, it was like January 2020, when we finished, but we were like, we got to do a West Coast tour. And obviously, for so many reasons that didn't happen when we wanted to do it. But this would be the first year we could have done it. And we almost didn't do it. And that would have been a big shame. Because this experience has been wonderful. And the mini everybody around all that loves pies and all these different cities has been so wonderful. And it reminds me of why we do what we do. You know, sometimes whatever your job is you can you can get so into the weeds of it, you can forget why you do it. And a tour like this is like reminds me why we do it. So thank you to all of you who've been on the tour so far. It's just been wonderful. Because you're you're part of this massive win we couldn't have done it without you. So thank you. All right now my loves it's time for you to go document your wins, to share them where you like to share things, and to encourage your friends to do it as well. I think he told you this a few weeks ago that we have an elevate member who is doing 52 weeks of FYFing and all the people in her Friday class all share her win and I love that because it's like the world's gonna be a better place when we absolutely look forward to on Friday. It's not just the weekend. It's also like, oh, today we celebrate wins. And if you want to celebrate your wins on a different day, every day, you can do that as well. Make sure you said so you can cheer me on the podcast. And thank you for listening to the Be It Till You See It Podcast. I'll see you soon. 

Lesley Logan 7:00  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. 

Lesley Logan 7:28  

Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 7:31  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:36  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 7:40  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 7:47  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 7:52  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. 

Overwhelm or overload? Brad and Lesley break down Sunitha Sandeep's approach to understanding life's pressures. Discover the difference and find your path to acceptance. Through personal anecdotes and expert insights, they offer a roadmap to navigating life's most challenging moments.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why doing something solely for money can kill your passion for it.
• How passion and purpose can be expressed in multiple ways.
• The difference between "being" versus "doing".
• Why feeling overloaded is different from feeling overwhelmed.
• How a change of environment can help you get past feeling stuck.
• The positive results of changing your definition of a win.

Episode References/Links:

• 2023 West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour
• Agency coaching team waitlist
• Ep 95: Learn and Relearn Your Body’s Dialogue (ft. Jenny Schatzle)
• "The Power of No Bundle" resource by JJ DiGeronimo
• JJ DiGeronimo’s website

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Join us at our West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour - Aug. 8-20, 2023

Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:03  

Because for the first time in my life, there's so much possibility for me because I'm not stuck on what was done to me. Yeah, I am literally in a place where I can make change. I can make decisions, I can make different things happen. And I made it a point to do everything differently based on accepting where I exist. I was in that moment. 

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing

 that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've

 trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people

 from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to

 fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can

 use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the harmoniously profound convo I had with Sunitha Sandeep.

I just want to say I said it very well, in our last episode, if you haven't yet, listen to this interview, to that interview, this interview, whatever. Feel free to pause this now go back and listen that one and then come back and join us. Sorry, my brain was thinking about, like, if there's a speech therapist who listened to this podcast, or probably like this girl, just want you to know, I did speech therapy. It's gotten a lot better. You should have heard it before. Thank you, I had a lot of like permanent teeth removed. I have a very small mouth and a big tongue. It's like, it's everything. I do not have a list. Okay, so we're working on it.

Brad Crowell 7:05  

Anyways, okay. Well, I've

Lesley Logan 7:07  

Well, I've been to speech therapy. And I just can tell sometimes I can't get some of those sounds together. So thanks for the people who put words together. I'm like, well, here we go. Today is August 17, national nonprofit day. So go support your favorite nonprofit. If you don't have one, I've got two for you. I actually have a few for you. So Bloom organization helps and what girls who have been bullied, handle how to handle that bullying and also prepare them to like understand have empathy for bullies that are out there and rise above that.

Brad Crowell 7:40  

Now we support Bloom with OPC. 

Lesley Logan 7:42  

Yes. And then the cupcake girls are doing some badass shit when it comes to sex workers rights and support. And also that involves actually supporting people human traffic because human trafficking exists. Because the reality is we make sex work illegal, and then pimps get involved and shit happen. So go check out the cupcake girls and really understand that kind of work. I think it's going to really change your mind around how sex work exists, why it exists, and how we can be more kind and loving to those in that industry.

Brad Crowell 8:20  

We support the cupcake girls with Profitable Pilates. 

Lesley Logan 8:22  

Yes, we do. And they're just doing some awesome stuff. So shout out to both of those. However, if you're like, Well, what about the homeless Lesley? Hungry? Remember hung? What was the one in LA? It's just left my mind.

Brad Crowell 8:39  

Hunger?

Lesley Logan 8:41  

No, it was it was lunch on me, lunch on me.

Brad Crowell 8:45  

It's an LA based one, but they have (...)

Lesley Logan 8:48  

They have more locations and they're doing some really great work. I really love them. people's concern does work with homeless communities. If you have

Brad Crowell 8:56  

 If you have a if you have a favorite charity, you know, today's national nonprofit day. Yeah. So support your local nonprofits.

Lesley Logan 9:03  

And we'll post this on Instagram, as well. So just like this episode, just like toss your favorite nonprofits in there because we're always looking for different nonprofits to support so yeah, I love to explore. And then we are still on tour...(Brad: We're still on tour right now.) Thanks. Balance body. We're still on tour. Yeah. We are currently in Idaho.

Brad Crowell 9:24  

17th. Yeah, we just finished Spokane. We're in Idaho, and we're gonna be heading to Whitefish in two days.

Lesley Logan 9:30  

We're just hanging out. So there's no class. You're not missing anything. My Idaho wins. I love you. But we'll be in Whitefish. Hi, Delia. In a couple days I'll be in Salt Lake. And then we'll city and Utah and they'll be in St. George Utah. And I just love how often we get to go to St. George because there's just a favorite little cafe that I love to hit up and I'm like, they're just so great. I'm so and that then I come home for like seven maybe not even days and I'm in Poland. So you can take privates with me there you can some take some workshops. with me there I am bringing some flashcards there. I don't know that'll be in Poland next year you all, so this is like this is it for a bit, then we'll come back. And literally a couple days later rock our seven day Coaching Program Agency MINI of Profitable Pilates program. It's our ninth iteration of this program. So it's just like a ninth edition I should say edition. And we it is a really awesome one. So you're gonna want to make sure you go to profitablepilates.com/mini

Brad Crowell 10:26  

If you are on the waitlist, at this point, it's available. So jump in, yeah, jump in.

Lesley Logan 10:33  

And then we wrap it up, hang tight for a couple weeks hanging out with our Agency peeps, our OPC peeps plan some stuff. And then we go to Cambodia, which some of you I've just found out, I just heard that we're doing Cambodia, so hi we're going to Cambodia. I'm super excited about that. And then you can go to lesleylogan.co/retreat November, at the time that we're recording this, we're still working on the details, it's possible that those details have like manifested themselves. So you know, if you are curious, go take a look at what we've got going on. And then December, we're back on the road for our winter tour, which we don't have all the details yet. But don't worry. By September, we will have a lot of things locked and loaded. So my dear before we go on to Sunitha. What is our audience question?

Brad Crowell 11:19  

Yeah. So today, we had a double header here. What are your favorite things to take on tour? And what are the things you miss the most about home while you're on the road? 

Lesley Logan 11:30  

Yeah, so this is super fun. Because obviously, we are on tour right now and people are like, because it's a long time to be on the road. And we are living out of our van. So obviously we're missing some things. So Babe, what are you missing?

Brad Crowell 11:45  

Well, I'm gonna cleverly answer one thing for both questions. And that is the dogs.

Lesley Logan 11:51  

We take the dogs when we can and we miss the dog. And we can't That's right. Yes,

Brad Crowell 11:55  

yeah. Or that and also, I miss our latte machine. Yeah, yeah, I do miss that.

Lesley Logan 12:02  

I'm still trying to figure out how that's coming on the road with us being recorded. I have high hopes for this. But it's, it is possible. It is not with us and we are stopping at random random places. But that's what makes it that's also what's so fun on the road except for West Texas. You got to get it together. I'm just going to call you out right now. Also, West Kansas, East Colorado. You all need new latte places. I'm just saying it. Okay, but we do like our latte machine, but I'm working on it. I don't want to piss people off. But I'm just gonna say it's a lot of cows or fields that could have them and there's no milk. There's no lattes. So anyways, I will say my favorite things to take on the tour. Obviously, I love to take the dogs when we can take the dogs it really (...) it's so fun. I hate leaving them behind Bayon looks at me every time I leave the house and I'm like I found you. I found you. I did not figure this out. But I also I miss my red light therapy. I miss my (...) I miss the equipment because sometimes I'll take a when a chair or a former or a spine corrector so when we can take those things and I can actually take them out and do them I feel really great. But like on this tour it's not like we can just like unload equipment everywhere we're going we're like literally sleeping in a parking lot so I am missing like access to my studio whenever I want it. I also will say this I do when I'm on more out on the road. I actually sleep really well. We don't have the dogs sleep really good. When we're on the road with the dog I sleep better than when I'm at the house. Because they don't get up in the car. They stay there they have nowhere to go so they sleep better in the moment. We should sit with them now with the dogs like maybe that's the thing. Anyways, other things that I love to take on tours or traveling I should say I have a sensate. We actually have a discount code for the sensate I haven't created an ad for it yet but I take my sensate it helps me fall asleep whenever I need to. It's just really calming. And it's just like a little thing you lay on your chest and just helps like your vagus nerve and I just love taking that when I travel. And that's why I miss my red light therapy and my (...) mat because sometimes I use my sensate with both of those things. I also miss our cactuses I miss our backyard. I was thinking about that I miss our I actually miss our regular schedule. I love going to the gym at the casino. I think it's fabulous. I think it's so fun. I love our people we work out with so of course I missed those people. And I miss our house and our bed. So I missed a lot of things we're on the road I'm really honest. I missed convenience for sure. But to take on the tour, I do think work and equipment can sensate I take I take any work and equipment I might need or I get a gym membership and those things and then it's Oh chocolate collagen and AG1. AG1 for the win. They're also a sponsor of the podcast. So put the link below. But that if I can have AG1 in the morning, so my chocolate called in my latte at some place that has oat milk, and my sensei feels and I can get some steps and I feel like we're good. We're good to go.

Brad Crowell 15:15  

I love it. Okay.

Lesley Logan 15:16  

Anyways, thanks for those questions. You can send your questions in to the Be It pod. We love answering them. It's kind of fun to think about, like, what is our favorite thing? So thank you.

Brad Crowell 15:40  

Okay, now let's talk about Sunitha Sandeep. Sunitha is a thought provoking transformational coach who helps women find their authentic selves, guiding them towards mindful awareness, acceptance, and a deep sense of balance. Sunitha was it was really interesting to hear. You know how she works with people. She was talking a lot about the somatic. 

Lesley Logan 16:07  

Yeah, third somatic person. Cymatics are like the thing.

Brad Crowell 16:12  

Yeah, well, also, I think when you, I think that this whole conversation about overload and overwhelm, and how it's connected to Cymatics. I thought it was really interesting. You know, like, I don't think I ever even heard of Cymatics until like a year ago. So

Lesley Logan 16:30  

I know, two good friends who are like very famous, amazing Cymatics people, but I, you already I can't talk about what I love. Like I love some of you love but we'll talk about in a second. So I'm going to ask really quick. She said, she talked a little about your livelihood doesn't equate to your passion and purpose. And I thought this was really interesting, because there's so many people out there that are like, what did you love as a child? That's what you want to do as an adult? Or like, like all...

Brad Crowell 16:57  

What are you passionate about, you should do that, you should ge paid for it.

Lesley Logan 17:00  

And like, she said, it works for some people. But it doesn't have to work for everybody. And I couldn't fucking agree more.

Brad Crowell 17:08  

Yeah, I'm, I mean, I've talked about this before, a couple of episodes ago, where, you know, when I was younger, I thought I will do whatever it takes to do a job to get paid the money I want to get paid so that I can do the things that I want to do. And the example I gave was, I would shuffle shit from one corner of the barn to the other corner of the barn, if that was what brought in the money. And at the time, I said, I don't, I'm not in on that. And I'm still not in on that. But I also think that you know, doing something that you're passionate about can actually destroy your passion for it if you're doing it for the money, right? 

Lesley Logan 17:50  

Well, that's like, hello, read the Book of Big Magic. Like a lot of people you see making money off of a talent or a gift or a passion that they have. They didn't start out trying to make it make money.

Brad Crowell 18:06  

That's right. 

Lesley Logan 18:07  

They like the woman who wrote Big Magic. Eat, Pray Love. Her name is coming to me. I'm sorry, guys. You're shouting at me, as you're driving, and Elizabeth Gilbert. Wow. So she was like, she did not actually give up her job as a professor at a university. Even after Eat Pray Love (...). She didn't give it up until after she like, even after she sold it to a movie. Like she did not give it up until she knew that like she wouldn't have to stress her gift, her passion to make money she like it would be okay. And I loved her doing. I loved her sharing that because I think it's so easy for us to think oh my god, I read a book and I saw it as a novel. And then it's this thing. And I actually taught another national best selling author and I watched her. I had to see her negotiate that she loves what she does. And also there's all these demands that come with it. And like it's this thing. So Sunitha said, like, Oh, I'm passionate about dancing, so I need to dance. And she said, No, you're passionate about expressing. And dance is just one form of it. You can express it anywhere. And I loved that as well. Because what if you injure yourself? And then you're like, oh my god, I can't dance anymore. So I'm nothing.

Brad Crowell 19:21  

And it well, also, I think she said that, 100% there, you know, you could hurt yourself. But she also said that your passion changes throughout your life. Yeah. So if you've locked yourself in on this thing, because you're passionate about it, what happens in five years when you're not as passionate about it? I mean, this I feel like this happened for me with music. What I realized is that actually what I'm passionate about are people and building relationships and, and the puzzle, I'm passionate about puzzles. The puzzle of building a business, building a company was a similar puzzle as music, but I thought that like music was the the end all be all, and I have to be doing that. And I, you know, and but my, my. So I went literally all 100% towards music. And after 10 years of pursuing that, I began realized, like, I don't necessarily need to be doing music. As much as I love the act of doing music, I actually need to be building relationships, and I need to be solving puzzles. And that's when, you know, and that was, that was not really clear to me at the time.

Lesley Logan 20:28  

Yeah. So I think it's just like, she, I just really enjoyed how she talked about that. Because I do think we put a lot of pressure on like, what's my passion, what's my purpose. And like, I just keep coming back to like, there are plumbers in Boston making a million dollars. I am not sure that all of them were like, I'm so passionate. Plumbing is my purpose. Right? But they are successful plumbers. And they are doing something. And so it's, I just think it's, I think she says it's a problem that we have for this passion, to figure out our passion and our purpose, because that's what we're supposed to do for a living. No, you can do a lot of things for a living. And then you can have passion and purpose that are expressed in different ways I put so much pressure, I find myself like when I'm around like a teenager, I'm like, okay, so what do I talk to them about? Because I definitely don't ask them like, what do you want to be when you grow up? Because I fucking questions terrible. It's too soon, we should really be letting people explore, like, what excites them, and showing them all the ways that that thing that excites them can be expressed in multiple different ways, not just through dance. Yeah, not just through whatever it is. 

Brad Crowell 21:41  

I think her ultimate point about this was about being versus doing...(Lesley: Oh, you are correct). You know, we end up doing because we think, Oh, I'm passionate about this, I'm gonna go do this thing. And she her argument here is what if you be the thing instead of do the thing?...(Lesley: Well, I mean, hello.) And it's possible for them to overlap. But they don't necessarily have to.

Lesley Logan 22:09  

Yeah. Yeah. So while you're being until you see it, if you I listen to podcast. That's right. Oh, please. I mean, it's why I have run. Okay. What did you love? 

Brad Crowell 22:19  

Alright, I thought this was really profound here. so profound.

Lesley Logan 22:23  

Hold on, take your notepads out, pull over.

Brad Crowell 22:27  

Pull over, hold the phone. Okay, so we've all experienced overwhelm, right? Where you just like completely, just shut down. You want to bury your head in the sand, you're all the things. And she said, Hey, there's a, there's a very different... Well, there's a distinction as a better way to say between being overloaded and being overwhelmed. And she said that being overloaded was basically you have too much on your plate, you got too many tasks, too many things you got, you can't you have so much, you can't even keep it on your head, as opposed to being overwhelmed, which is an internal state that persists regardless of the situation that you're in. And the example that she gave on that was, well, I want a vacation and I came back, I still feel terrible. That's overwhelmed. As opposed to you know, like, in the moment, there's too much to do right now to prepare for the thing that's overloaded. Yeah, you know, and I thought, wow, that's really interesting. I think we often misconstrue the two where we feel I'm overwhelmed. But maybe you're actually overloaded. And once this, whatever it is that's happening passes, you're actually (...)

Lesley Logan 23:38  

I also think that burnout gets titled for both of these. So I like talking about the agency members, when they take a couple days off, like I feel better, I took a break. I said, Congratulations. You are just overloaded, you have too many tasks. So let's do this. What can we take off the plate right now? Like you took a couple days off, like, what can just be pushed to a different deadline. But if they take a couple days off, and they're like, I'm still burned out, then it's an overwhelm. And that's a couple things like, that is how you are internalizing. And she said, how are you handling stress? If you're someone who thinks that, like if you take a break, everything's gonna crumble. That is a state of being as she said, like we this is where you actually do want to consider some sort of like somatic therapy or therapy in general, redefining how you actually engage with your work and the people around you. Because when we go on vacation, oh my god, as soon as we're on the fucking plane, I'm like, Ah, and I always feel great about like, Okay, I just a little overloaded, good. But if I can't get my mind to turn off, I'm like, Oh, I'm stepping back into some old patterns that I have wanted to let go, what's going on and like it's a sign for me that I have some work to do.

Brad Crowell 24:59  

Hmm, yeah, she I mean, she actually talks about people who feel stuck, and how they, how do you move past feeling stuck? Because it's easy to say this. But, you know, I think one thing you pointed out, which I thought was great was you're like, Well, that sounds so lovely to just like, not be overwhelmed and not be overloaded anymore. But I still have all the fucking things that I got to do in life. And it's not like they're going to stop. You know, she said, yeah, people often feel stuck. And how do you move through that? How do you pass feel like stuck. And she said, it could involve adjusting your environment, because we may associate negativity and trauma with environment. Also, with PTSD, it's, you know, like can also be, you know, changing your environment can be beneficial in that. And she said, a little bit of neutralizing in that, and that will give you a better foundation to build from moving forward. So sometimes that could be a vacation actually. Because you're not in your consistent like routine.

Lesley Logan 26:08  

You know how good I got at being not overloaded. So Saturday, when you call me and you're like, Hey, babe, are you on your way to the airport? I said, Yeah, I'm gonna have a (...). And you're like, you should be at the airport now. And I was like, Oh, I got so relaxed. Yeah, I'm so why'd you call? I really would have missed that flight. I think like, Y'all, if you normally listen the recaps, and then decide what to listen to. I'm going to be really honest. She has a TED Talk. This girl is a girl. She's human. She is really sharp. She explained things away. I gave her some really like I did. I felt like I have no clue what the hell we're doing. Now. If we like something like, what are we going to do here I saw that she had to do and she really had a great way of handling that. And I feel like I have always wanted to know. And this interview I did this month ago, and I have been so impacted by a change my whole way of understanding my own life. The things I'm doing, I was like, wow, I found a therapy session. So I feel good about it. I think you should check out her shit.

Brad Crowell 27:16  

Yeah, I mean, she has a program. She's a coach. She's an executive coach. And she works you know, I guess you don't have to be executive to do it. But she has a program with the pillars of awake A W A K E, which the stands for awake awareness within action, kindling and engagement. And if you're interested in her process, you can listen to the last episode, where she does explain kind of each step obviously not like the nuances of each step. That's why you would work with her but like the over the bigger picture review of what those steps are,

Lesley Logan 27:50  

I mean, I got so much out of just the interview.

Brad Crowell 27:53  

Yeah, I mean, she, her her help. Her purpose is to help you connect more with your authentic self because we ended up just getting busy with life and commitments. And like we talked about yeses and noes, you know, in last episode, and so the you know, she helps you dig through that connect more to yourself and then decide, you know, how do you how do you enjoy life more, you know? 

All right. Let's talk about those Be It action items what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items. Can you take away from your combo with Sunitha Sundeep? She said go through the path of acceptance that the number one starts from acceptance period. And this was interesting. It's because out of context, that sounds a little strange. But basically, in order for us to move forward from being stuck in the thing that we are overwhelmed. overload, I guess it would be overwhelmed really, because overload is like short term, it's, it seems like in order to move, you have to accept where you are. And that is a hard thing is to accept where we are, okay, this thing is out of my control, and it's happening and I have to do the things to whatever, but when you accept your current state, it helps you mentally, emotionally, and somatically.

Lesley Logan 29:24  

Oh, 1,000% 10 years ago, when I was homeless, and then I totaled my car leaving that house that I was no longer living and then the studio call to like, chain none of this happened the same day guy that kind of like happened over a few weeks. At any rate, I just remember going okay. Okay, I'm not gonna blame anyone. I get it. I'm accepting that I'm in this place. I somehow made decisions that got me here. And so what do I do next? And it was the fucking best thing in my life. People literally thought I was a lunatic when you do this, people are gonna say you are crazy person, you guys, like my friends were like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm phenomenal. Because for the first time in my life, there's so much possibility for me because I'm not stuck on what was done to me. Yeah, I am literally in a place where I can make change. I can make decisions, I can make different things happen. And I made it a point to do everything differently based on accepting where I exist. I was in that moment, not making excuses, just like this is where I am. What can I get where I am, I'm part of this and it changed. I had you guys I was fucking couchsurfing. And I had the best days of my life. People were straight, like very worried. And I was like, you be worried. I'm not worried like it was. It's the best thing if that's all you take from this, it's like, except where you are, like, really truly see what happens when you just do it for one day.

Brad Crowell 30:51  

Yeah, and it's not easy to do. No, you know, but when you when you can, and when you do that. You know, and you actually take a step and look, look at yourself from the side, it leads to awakeness, okay, which is her A W A K E, her process. So, you know, it helps you, it's going to help you like reevaluate things and find a different path.

Lesley Logan 31:18  

 And just really quick, it's also not easy to be doing the life you're doing if you're feeling stuck.

Brad Crowell 31:23  

That is very true. And I think I think we keep doing the things that we're doing even if they may be detrimental to us because we feel safe with what we know and (...)

Lesley Logan 31:36  

(...)

Brad Crowell 31:37  

All right. What about you? 

Lesley Logan 31:40  

I wouldn't mean with all love, okay? So of course, need to shift she emphasized need to shift definition of success and wins. Listen to FYF people I promise you every Friday, when we that's tomorrow, when this episode comes out, it's the next day. I share people's wins. Some of them are huge. And some of them are like little like I told someone No, today, I freaked out a little bit, but I didn't back down. You have to redefine your definition of a win. Yeah, you have to redefine it and have success and you know, it's kind of crazy. It's like, I, I hate like, what is your definition of success? I'm like, I'm living it. So like, why don't you ask me why I'm successful? Because I am. And some of you are some of us because we've been trained, like, what's your definite success as if you're never gonna reach it till you retire. And the truth is, you may have already but you haven't taken the time to understand the wins you've made. And so like I of course, there's changes I want to make, those are things I want to do. There's still some things I want us to have and with our business and the impact we want to make, but we're very fucking successful right now. Because I've changed the definition of what success looks like. So do that. And then there's a couple things. She encouraged us to see the act of trying itself as a win. Yes, yeah. Sorry, Yoda. You're wrong. And I all my all my Star Wars people. Katie don't hurt me. We love Rachel, I love you. Who else I've apologized to?

Brad Crowell 33:07  

Well, you know, I think this goes to habit building too. You know, like, even if you attempted the thing, but you didn't do the thing. You still attempted the thing.

Lesley Logan 33:15  

If you remember the thing, right? That you want to do. It's a win is a win. The shift that needs to happen is it's a win. It is because I tried. So win because I tried. So I, I hope that you we really need to come up with a journal paper. Meredith, we need a journal. We need a wins journal. So our listeners can have a winning journal and that every day they can just write a win of the day down. Maybe the win is You didn't forget on yourself. Maybe the win is that you hit traffic and you didn't yell the car next to you. I don't care what the winners, we have to start acknowledging on all the wins that are happening because there is this happens in aÁgency somebody rose posted like a rant and it was totally fine. Like whoever will listen I'm like, absolutely as was for and then I went to the wins channel, and they had not posted and I had to go back and say illegal. Illegal. I'd say thank you so much for sharing this. You gotta go post a win, because not everything is shit. Thanks. And she did. And it was a great win. But it's so important that you understand that the universe is balanced. It really is. But if you focus on your wins, you see them everywhere. It's like I when I focus on desert flowers, I see different flowers everywhere, everywhere. Anyways, I'm Lesley Logan,

Brad Crowell 34:34  

and I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 34:35  

Thank you so much for listening. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Are you ready to redifine success for yourself? I hope so. Let us know what your new definition is by dragging the Be It pod, tag Sunitha and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 34:46  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 34:47  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help

 both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or

 subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself

 over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear

 it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a

 production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 34:47  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 34:47  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 34:47  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist

 Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 34:47  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our

 transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 34:47  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell

 for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

A transformative talk on fostering ease, redefining success, overcoming overwhelm, and finding inspiration. Lesley and Sunitha discuss the path to acceptance and how it leads to greater awareness. Tune in to discover strategies and insights for a more balanced life.  

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How to foster 'ease' in life.
• Overcoming overwhelm for a more balanced life.
• Harnessing the transformative shift of her program A.W.A.K.E.
• Shifting from external motivation to internal inspiration.
• How to follow the path of acceptance. 

Episode References/Links:

• Sunitha Sandeep Website
• Follow Sunitha Sandeep on Facebook
• Follow Sunitha Sandeep on LinkedIn
• Check out Sunitha's TEDx Talk on How Trauma Can Lead To Positive Change!
• Get Sunitha's free eBook "A NEW WAY TO LIVE & LEAD"

Guest Bio:

Sunitha is a TEDx Speaker, Trauma-Informed Transformative Coach, and certified Meditation/Mindfulness Teacher. She specializes in helping high-achieving women navigate anxiety, overwhelm, and burnout to achieve professional success and personal fulfillment. With credentials in Positive Psychology, Trauma Support, and Integrative Wellness Transformation, Sunitha is also a corporate leader, Mrs. India DC 2021 winner, singer, and mother. She challenges the notion that stress and burnout are necessary for success. Drawing from her own experiences as a trauma survivor and overcoming severe anxiety, depression, and other health challenges, Sunitha combines eastern contemplative practices with western trauma healing and positive psychology to facilitate transformative journeys.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Sunitha Sandeep 0:00  

15 years ago, if you had asked me if coaching was something that I wanted to do, like, as a kid or so I would say no, like, always kind of listen to somebody, and not the kind of a person like, you know, but that was who I thought I was. Yeah. But then, for me, what came out of this whole transformation is presence, consciousness. And I love to get other people present. And I love to be present, no matter what I do.

Lesley Logan 1:26  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing

 that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've

 trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people

 from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to

 fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can

 use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Okay, so you guys, I am stoked for your ears to hear this. I, first of all, you're just gonna love her voice, I found myself just mesmerized and like taking it all in. But our guest today is Sunitha Sandeep. She's a TEDx speaker. She's a transformational life coach. And she truly uses all of the tools that we have around energetics and Cymatics. And, and more than just that to help everybody understand kind of like why they're doing all the things like hello are my overachievers that, Why are you doing that? And, and we went into a variety of topics. But first of all, get your notepads out, because there's a couple questions she throws out there that I want you to save for when you are in a space where it was like, Oh, my God, everything is too much. Because it can really explain where your work needs to be. And also, we dove into passion and purpose. And as someone who my scope is not therapy, right. But as a as a business coach, and as a pilates instructor and a breath and habits coach. Something that like I've always been stuck on a little bit is how to help people this one area, and she puts it together in such an amazing package that I'm so excited for you to hear this, I will be sending people that part of the episode all the time, we're gonna listen to this part of the episode go now, because it's just so informative, beautiful, and while simple, complicated to do if you are not facing the stuff that comes before it. So all of that is gonna be here in this episode. I'm excited for you to hear this. I really cannot wait to hear your takeaways. You know, it's so important to me. And and hopefully you enjoy the takeaways that Brad and I have. I really am already excited to do the recap episode with Brad about this because I think it can, I think it's going to reveal a lot about why you do what you do. So here is Sunitha Sandeep.

All right, Be It babe. Hello. Welcome back. I am so thrilled to have conversation with today's guest. When I came across what she does, and how she moves in this world and the things that she talks about. I was like, Oh, we must have this person on. I love anytime we have a TEDx speaker or someone who can talk about mindfulness and trauma and Cymatics because it's something that I don't think there's enough information about we've talked about Cymatics before but it's becoming more and more needed. I think it was probably always been needed, but more and more accessible. So Sunitha, Sandeep, thank you for being our guest today. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're rocking at?

Sunitha Sandeep 4:54  

Yeah, thank you so much Lesley for having me here. And it's wonderful to see what you're doing especially spreading awareness, one of the big topics of trauma, mindfulness, somatic healing. And that's exactly what I do. I'm a transformative coach and I help high functioning women who are going through a lot of inner struggles of whether it's stress, anxiety, burnout, and then again, burn out can have lots of causes hidden traumas, conditioning, and so and take them through a process of both mental healing emotional healing, somatic healing a little bit more into the energetics and also to the consciousness level, so that they can have a higher professional impact. But what's deep personal fulfillment, but I do.

Lesley Logan 5:39  

Okay, obsessed. And also like, it's you must have lived nine lives to have all this expertise and get into what you're doing. But part of me my curiosity went to like, with these high functioning like these high almost like, overachiever, women, do you find that it after they work with you that that changes how they engage like, are they you know what I mean, because I'm thinking about the type of woman who like has these jobs, who is going into burnout for a variety of reasons, it could be from like, they overwork themselves approval, to prove that they're worthy, or they're avoiding dealing with the trauma they have, do you find that it changes them in a way of how they actually show up in their workplace

Sunitha Sandeep 6:20  

Completely, completely, they will still, some of them even still get promoted. However, whatever they do, becomes more with ease a little bit more effortlessness. Because you see that something that is in wooden has changed. So the outer environment usually doesn't change, or it changes for the better. But then the inner environment has changed. And some of them even add on more to what they were doing along with their job, they now start getting into more into their passion, their hobbies, and then they come up with other purposes that they feel a little bit more inclined to more coming from the heart. And some of them say like, you know, executive bonus, as executive job is something that I really drives me and I want to go further. And some of them will be like, you know, I'm fine with the with the job that I'm doing. And I want to give a little bit more importance to my family. And I want to spend more time with my kids. So it's, it's all very different. And it's very unique to each person. But I think from the end results, what I see is they'll continue to do what they want to do and even more, but with kind of an ease and effortlessness. And that's, that's the aim of my whole program. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 7:33  

I actually love that word ease. It's something I like. I remember years ago, because I was working for another company. And I couldn't stop saying yes to promotions, like it was a definite, like hearing being promoted, like, Thank you, and, like, hated that first job. So it's so funny, because I did it in the job previously, and I quit that job. Got another one. I was like, I'm not going to take a promotion the next week. They're like, we'd like to promote you to this. And I'm like, Oh, my God. No. Here I am. Just like, because there was that overachiever in me like that person who was raised like straight A's like, oh my gosh, you're getting a promotion. Like, that's such a great thing. Like, it was never like taught like, maybe you should see if you want the promotion. Maybe exactly right. Yeah, yeah, I was overachieving in this job that I didn't actually enjoy. And I was trying to make something else for myself work. And I was in these like, two conflicts. And I was, I remember the word ease, being like, I just wish it was easy. I just wish there was ease around this. And it took me the longest journey to figure out like, well, you can't have ease. The way you're doing things you have to do something different. You can't. I wish I learned it faster. But what are some ways that you explore people how to bring ease into their life? I mean, it's not really a light switch because if there's a driving reason for them to not to do something a certain way like just putting on the ease button doesn't exactly fix anything.

Sunitha Sandeep 9:01  

Yeah, it's not a direct switch like as you said, it's not like you know, taking this belief structure that I'm struggling with everything within and then okay, let me start doing everything easily. It's a kind of an inner ease that happens because you first try to understand yourself at the mental level like you know, as you said, overachieving comes with a lot of perfectionism, comes with a lot of people pleasing, comes with a lot of wanting appreciation and recognition, because that literally drives our field. That's the driving the motivation behind everything. And then just understanding where those things started coming from, why those things started happening. Growing up as kids, like any overachiever, kid, it's like, oh, I got straight A's. It's like, oh, you're great. It's like, you're such a good girl. You're like doing amazing, you're really smart or she's such a perfect girl and she doesn't cause any issues. You see these claimed of words, what they do is they build an identity over you, then you no matter what, whether you enjoy or not, whether it's a struggle for you, whether or not you try to keep up to the identity, because that's all, you know, that is your identity. And now what happens is like, as you said, you were not enjoying, but then you were getting things done, and you will continue to get things done. But the inner side of it, you're completely unfulfilled, you're not just happy, it's not happening effortlessly, there's more pressure, there's more stress, eventually, if this continues for a longer time, it's going to cause you a burnout. And then the burnout is not just like a physical exhaustion or so on. It's not like an overloaded doing so many things. It's a kind of soul burnout that we go through, which is kind of like, you know, I just don't see the meaning in this like, it's, it's not, it's not keeping your soul alive. And that is the kind of burner that I'm really concerned about. And if you don't address that, it can go into into many deep pitfalls and cul de sacs and vicious cycle and the spiral downward kind of a spiral. And it can literally affect the overall life of a woman while with her partner with her kids. But who she is, as a person, even in her corporate world, or any kind of a job that she's doing. It literally has impacts everywhere.

Lesley Logan 11:29  

Yeah. You're the first person to actually talk about that as a sole burnout, because we coach a lot of people. And they're like, Well, I took a vacation and I'm still burnt out, I still it didn't help. And it's like, yeah, because the burnout isn't because you're over working yourself. It's because of like the like, you're you're you're not in your purpose. And the things that you're doing on a daily basis are not actually aligned with, you know, how you the like the person you want to be like they're on your soul level, your soul knows your incongruency there.

Sunitha Sandeep 12:02  

Incongruency. And usually when somebody says that I asked them, are you overloaded? Or Are you overwhelmed, because there's a major difference between overloading and getting overwhelmed. If you want to take a break, like if you just want to take a sabbatical going on vacation, it helps if you're overloaded with meaning, you're trying to accommodate too many things, within your span of 16 hours of your waking time, that's overloaded. But then overwhelming is something that's going on within and it doesn't matter whether you're working or whether you're kids or whether you're just being with yourself, you can be overwhelmed all the time, you can be overwhelmed even in a vacation, it's like, I'm going to visit this vacation place, these are the 10 things that I need to do one after the other, like, you know, like let's go finish seeing this particular place, let's do this, this restaurant, and this is what we need to check out, you can still get into that mode. And that's again, it might feel like it's aligned, and I really wanted to do this, I wanted to explore this vacation place. But again, the way you do it from an internal process is just causing more overwhelm. When again, it falls back to that particular identity that you carry. I need to get things done. I need to finish that and things like a to do list that I need to check check. Check it off. Yeah, yeah. You can eat wherever you go.

Lesley Logan 13:24  

That's yeah. Okay. This is cool. I really liked how you broke that down because I can actually imagine a time in the past where I was overwhelmed versus overloaded. And it's and it makes and now it makes me understand like, oh, that's why that vacation was fine. And that's why this one wasn't. That's why we know and so it's definitely what a great question to ask yourself write that down everyone on my overload or my overwhelmed love that Okay, so here's you know, we have a lot of women who listen I call myself a recovering perfectionist and overachiever because to be recovered those a little perfectionisty so we're just in process. Yeah, so but one of the things that this podcast exists for is for that perfectionist overachievers, they can take messy action so they can stop waiting until things are like aligned and everything is perfect. So they stop over whelming themselves to be the person they want to be in this world. So I wanted to have you on because I really do love the topic that you're talking about as a transformational coach and, and the way you help people. But I guess like my question where I feel the pushback of a listener is this. Well, I can't just stop everything.

Sunitha Sandeep 14:36  

Yeah, yeah, you can't stop everything. That will definitely help you can stop everything but then you don't want to stop everything. That's where it is. If you can stop and if our if our lifestyle is such that we can just go live in a cave. If that works for you. There are a lot of people who have done that. But then the problem is we don't want that way. We want too, we want to experience life with our kids, we want to have fun with our kids, we want to experience our life with our spouses, and we want to build our business, we want to make that impact to others, we want to, we want to work really well in a corporate environment, and then really bring that impact to others. We want all of those things, right. That's what our soul is kind of craving also. And it doesn't mean exactly the process, the way I wanted to it's working as a professional doesn't mean I need to hit this particular ladder, like these particular steps by this time, and this is the money that I need, see, when it becomes overwhelming. Instead, it's like, okay, what are we what is it that I can give? What is it that I can give, when I can still be present, no matter what I'm doing, and then that will literally take you where you need to go. So if it's possible for you to stop, try it out and see, it's likely that it is not possible. We, we think that, in that, in that situation, when we are going through so much overwhelm, it's like I just want to stop that's what we feel like at the stopping is not the external activity, that stopping is more internally. And that's the shift that we need to learn.

Lesley Logan 16:16  

Yeah, how do we do that?

Sunitha Sandeep 16:18  

It's a multiple, it's a multiple step process. It's not a quick fix as just going for meditation, just going for some yoga practice, or just going to the gym or taking a stroll and like going for a hike or anything like that. You will have to go down to the level to your root causes. One on one, as we mentioned, just understanding your archetypal personality types of people pleaser perfectionism over achiever and understanding why you do that. Why do you really have to over achieve ramped over recognition? Success addicts, I call a lot of my women are success addicts, they're literally addicted. Why do you need that? because that's the way for them to meet themselves. They work they work, they achieve something kind of get a relief. And then they find themselves. That's the only they that they have become close to themselves that they know of themselves. So naturally, you will keep doing certain things. Because you want to feel yourself, you want to be close to yourself, you want to feel intimate with yourself. But then the journey is first to understand those kinds of patterns that we are doing, both at the mental level at the emotional level, and at a somatic level, because lots of things are stored inside our bodies, or our mind can be tricked to like, you know, affirm something 100 times and say this is good, this is good ourselves, but our bodies cannot be tricked into it, we can trick our mind to do a lot of positive thinking. But the body is not going to listen to that. That's why we often see, like, Oh, I know what I need to do, but I just feel stuck. And I don't know how to just break the barrier and then go do what I want to do. And so all different layers have to be worked out. And then once the environment is clean and neutral, because we should not be building anything over the environment that is already carrying so much conditioning and so much negativity or so much trauma, a little bit of clarification of that. And a little bit of neutralizing will give you a little bit better foundation to build your next life. The other important aspect is one when somebody comes to me for the first one or two sessions, I asked them, what do you want? And then when I ask them what do they want in like the few final sessions it's completely different. Yeah, because what you want was coming more from your condition way. What I wanted is what probably my mother wanted or what probably the society thoughts that I wouldn't be successful if I had this. And it's not coming from an inner place. Yeah, then. Yeah, once you clear there is there's nothing blocking you from accessing your deeper place. 

Lesley Logan 19:19  

Yeah, I mean, I am picturing like, different people that we've worked with, or in our communities or even like, just in myself, and it is really interesting. Like, you know, if you like ask him like, why they do what they do. Yeah, so many of them can't get past that surface level. Oh, I want to help people. Why do you want to help people? And they're like, they're stuck there. And that's like, that, to me is like I'm like, oh, there's some work there because part of what they want to do is what sounds good or what they think what they've been told they should do or whatever. It doesn't have to be from their parents. It can even be from the industry that they're in, like, oh or we're all here to help people but really like, if you can, if you can get past that layer to like as you said it people the first use sessions I say this but by the time we've moved on, but they really want, they can articulate in such a different way and it might not look anything like it, but they finally got to get into that. So you said you do that with like energetics and Cymatics and different things like, What does that look like? And also for those people who don't might not know what energetics or Cymatics is, can you just explain a little bit?

Sunitha Sandeep 20:22  

Yeah, so I teach a program called the stick awake A W A K E and it's an acronym for five separate transformational shifts that they get, a stands for awareness and then W stands for within a zone is a phase of transformative phase wherein we go way deep inside our conditioning. Inside understanding our deep held hidden fears, I take them through a process and then at the end of the process, the all the literally all the fears that are running humans as a whole, or even the men as a whole is the fear of being worthless, fear of being insignificant. Fear of being unloved, fear of being lonely and fear of losing either themselves or fear of losing the loved ones. Those are the top five fears that's literally running every woman and just having an understanding and going deep within and letting something within speak because the only way you can, you can kind of transmute the trauma is not by suppressing it or not just by expressing it and dump all our emotional outbursts onto somebody is instant it is by a process called transmutation. When you sit with it, you give it the space for it to just come into the open, express itself in a very safe way, either in the coaching session or when they're alone with themselves, and then release that into a process of presence. And that's when you start tapping into so much energy that has literally stuck because trauma and conditioning is nothing but deep held pockets or dense pockets of energetic contraction. (...) an energy is using the contract something that the body feels is unsafe for the to feel a little bit expansive and relax. So it's continuously contracting. And anytime that trigger happens within the body, again, goes into contraction. Now I'm not safe, I can't be here, you can't be here, because the body is protecting you. Rod body's kind of protecting us. It doesn't know that now we can handle things. It still is used to how we were handling things as a kid. And then it is still learnt those or maybe somebody went through some traumatic events in their life, the body has learned to contract, and it doesn't want to let go. So in somatic and trauma healing practices, what we do is we give the safe space for the body and our nervous system to relax a bit. And feel like oh, I can be present here, even if somebody is triggering those events on me. Because usually I do a lot of inquiry based practices, and then we go back to the trauma and it has to be done in a very safe way. Because otherwise, otherwise the body will go into more contraction. And it has to be done in layers, like one layer after the other the second layer and it has to be done in a very, very compassionate way. And then the trauma begins to talk. Yeah, it's trauma begins to release. That's the that's the deep work, which is the W and that is just a stage two the stage three is...

Lesley Logan 23:44  

That's a big stage! How long did that stage take? Can I be in that stuff? It's like, it depends on like, what you're the trauma you're working with, or maybe the level of resistance of the person who like waited, whether they're ready or not to go there, like, how long can that take?

Sunitha Sandeep 24:00  

It's so weird that I say this within two or three sessions, it can be done, it can be done. Because all it depends is how trusting the person is to if the other person can trust me, and I am the coach and I'm there and I'm helping them. Can you trust me? And the minute they trust something within kind of relaxes first of all, like, Oh, this is safe. And the minute the body feels safe, it's literally a quantum shift that happens. It's not a very linear process that goes okay, one after the other or so. It's like as soon as the body is good, one layer has gone bang. Yeah. And then the other layer comes up and then the more they do, the more the body is like well, okay, I have been in the situation where I had contracted and now I'm letting go and nothing happened to me. So I can do this again and again. So it's it again depends on how how safe the body and how safe the mind feels. That's why it's very important to work in that environment initially. I have my clients who also come from a PTSD background, a lot of PTSD, a lot of severe problems that they went through. And it's the same process that I do, whether it's conditioning, or whether it's PTSD, or whether it's trauma that the current trauma that they're going through. And then the third transformational shift is action. A W A K E. So A is action. Action here does not mean an outward action at all, action is more, What does it mean to accept yourself? Not mentally. Not mentally, at all. Because we all know I need to accept the way I am. I need to learn to let go. But are you really letting go? Are you really accepting yourself? Are you really compassionate to yourself? Do you feel that when you give compassion to yourself does your heart open? Or is it mostly here? does your body feel relaxed? Right? So then I teach them what are the ways to tap into the acceptance, compassion and surrendering more from both body and from the heart. So the ultimately it's keeping our hearts open. And and that's where the deep us, the deep we, the deeper part of our authentic self, starts to communicate and starts to come out and starts to awaken and take part in our lives. And then finally, it's the K. So k is the kindling. On this stage, now their heart is little bit open, then we kind of coax the heart and then kinglet and then say, What do you want? What is it that you want? 

And what gives you that that inner inspiration? Even if nobody recognizes what you do, nobody is ever going to know what you're going to do like what you're going to be doing or writing a book. It'll never get published, or you're speaking on the stage, nobody's there to listen. Or if you're teaching somebody and then maybe there's one person in the whole world that will be good, that that will be your client. Will you continue to do that? And then the answer is like, yes, because I want to do it, I want to do gardening, I want to write a book, I want to read a book or I want to go learn dancing. You see that's completely different from I want to do it because somebody else thinks that this is cool. Or somebody else thinks it's successful. And then the final part is the E which is engagement in life, no matter how much we learn and how much we coax our authentic self there is a part of engagement that needs to happen, a more conscious way of being, whether it's as a conscious parent, as a conscious partner, as a conscious professional, conscious entrepreneur, conscious leader. So I touch upon those aspects as well. As a five step transformative approach.

Lesley Logan 28:19  

I what I love about how you approach it, and it's, you know, one of the things I tell people is like, you know, action is the antidote to fear. And what I love about your work when you talk about taking action, it is after you let go of things and it is also making sure the actions are instead of saying I need to be kind to myself, I need to love myself or I need to do this it's, like, for someone who loves themselves so much or for someone who does, what actions do they take? What and so it's like, um, it's like a that that A is very much the being until they see it, so it's not a shame or something that they're like, forced upon themselves, but they're doing it.

Sunitha Sandeep 28:53  

I know, yeah, yeah, I think there's a lot of shame and guilt with respect to loving ourselves, with respecting to practicing things like forgiveness and gratitude. For a lot of people, this doesn't happen naturally. And it has to happen naturally, you cannot force it because gratitude, love, forgiveness, compassion. Empathy is something that is that is the first level of expression of your consciousness, the deeper most level, you can't force upon it, because then if you're trying to force upon it, it's not like a fake it till you make it kind of a thing. You can't do that. Because these are deeper, deeper levels of your consciousness, that if you try to do something from your mind, okay, no matter what, I'm going to forgive this person. That's not what it's called for. And I think that that is something that they need to know. Otherwise what happens is, I need to be grateful for the things that I have, but you know what, I'm not feeling that we wouldn't, but I can't tell it to anybody because it's shameful. I feel guilty for feeling that way. You see...(Lesley: And then the person goes in a total spiral. Hey, I need to be grateful) Yeah, yeah, it is. This, that's something that people really need to learn that these qualities are not something that can be forced upon at all. It happens naturally. And your role in that is to just keep yourself open. 

Lesley Logan 30:24  

Well, that and that's all and also, probably the hardest things to do is to like, be open to receiving that, you know, I think that's why people get really scared, because it's like, I mean, some people can't even receive a compliment. So let alone receive.

Sunitha Sandeep 30:41  

Yeah, they can't even receive the compliment. Yeah, because there is also something some other identity that crops up and say, No, you can't be, you can't be getting these things. You're not good. Like, you know, you're an imposter. You're not even worthy of it. You see, because that's probably something that they learned growing up. They would have learned about this. And that's where it's coming from.

Lesley Logan 31:03  

Yeah, you brought up impostor. And so I wonder like, how many of the women that you that they come to you. And there are these like super successful, amazing women who have done crazy things, and how many of them feel like that imposter syndrome, all of them, some of them?

Sunitha Sandeep 31:19  

Probably most of them, most of them. It's a very common thing. It's a very common thing because as overachievers we always try to compare ourselves. And then here we try to keep comparing ourselves with with ourselves. Okay, that's, that's not good. This is not good. And then people are going to find out that you're fake or all these kinds of fear, fear based approaches. And yeah, and it's a very common it's and it's very common, and with with high achievers, yeah. I find more so with high achievers than than people who, who usually take it easy and take it more like kind of laid off.

Lesley Logan 32:02  

Yeah, I got into researching it for a few reasons. One, because I felt impostor syndrome. And I get all these like achievements. So I was like, What is going on? And I listened to Seth Godin answer a question on impostor syndrome. It's like, well, if you're new to something, you are an impostor, you should feel that way. If you are new to something, however. And he went off on another tangent, and then it's like, well, if I'm not new to something, and yet, I'm feeling like an imposter than what does that look like? So I was doing some research with like five types of impostor syndrome, most of them have to do with perfectionism. Or if you were considered like a genius at a young age, like if you think things came really easy to you, all that stuff and so that those and there's like, you did things on your own, like you like you were just lots of accolades compliments or, or even just like you had to for survival. So therefore, there's these like five different ones, and I can't remember all of them, but one of them has with perfectionism, one of them has just been, everything came very easy to you when you were younger. Yeah. And, and what ends up happening is like, you're having imposter syndrome, because you cannot, it's so hard for you to accept that what you just achieved was enough like that, that was really good. Or that even if you did it, because other people helped you that you're still worthy, and you're still valid. And it's really interesting what we all have our communities we have a now on the podcast of Fridays is Fuck Yeah Friday, you must celebrate something that happened that you like a win of any size. And it's what it's so fun. Because the people been in the communities for years. You start to see them, they just do every Friday, they'll do it all week long. They'll go I have a one on a Monday, like they'll do all they it took them a while, but they got there, right. And then there are some people who, like it is so hard for them to post in that way, a one win on a Friday at one time because like, well, it's not good enough. Like it's not enough.

Sunitha Sandeep 33:50  

It's not enough. It's not Oh, yeah, that could have been better. It's not enough. And what do people think that if I post about this, it's not good enough to be posted. 

Lesley Logan 34:00  

Yeah. And I'm like, I might. So I started share, I said, I want to share your wins. Because I want people to see like, what a win can look like. And it can be really small. It could be like, I, I, you know, I asked one person this week to do this thing. Like that's a win like you who cares what they said yes or no, the win is that you did the thing, right, like so...

Sunitha Sandeep 34:21  

That's the shift. And I think you brought up a very important point there. The wind, the definition of the success, the definition of the wind needs to change, because for us the definition of success is dependent on I asked somebody that they say yes or no, right? That's the definition of success for them. And for whatever reason, that person said, No, it's not worthy enough to go and post it as a win because they're looking at more from a result perspective. But then the shift that needs to happen is it's a WIN because I tried. I asked them, I did it. The action itself needs to be your win. That's where you redefine your success. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's a big shift. That's a big shift. And it's not easy for many overachievers, because achievement.

Lesley Logan 35:15  

Yeah, no I have, we just had an episode come out recently where the guy asked him how he goal sets and he said, I never set the goal that I'm gonna get three clients I cannot control if I'm gonna get three clients, I can't control three people saying yes, I can only control the actions I can take to get people to hear about the service I have. And that might end up being. So I can only control if I fix my website, I can only control if I like the things that are in my control. I actually have steps I can take. And I was it's like, sounds so obvious. And yet, for the for the high achievers out there the over achievers to you it's not that's like they're like no, the three clients is the goal, I have to hit this monetary number. And it's like, we just don't control that we can only control the steps we take that could potentially lend itself to that result.

Sunitha Sandeep 36:03  

All right, correct. Right. And see that doesn't motivate it. It's like, oh, if I set a goal, like, you know, I need to, I need to have like five clients. I'll do whatever it takes to get those five clients. And it's, and if my motivation is not hitting those results, there's literally no motivation for me. That's the problem. And that's where, that's where the understanding, the motivation, and moving it into inspiration is needed. Because now when you're working from a place of inspiration, whether you get five clients or zero clients, it doesn't matter, because you're doing it because you love doing it. That's all, you just, you would just do it whether people pay you money or not. You would keep talking whether if there is anybody to listen or not, you would just keep posting your videos. Like you keep singing if you're a singer, you keep dancing, if you're a dancer, they keep painting if you're an artist, you see, and but those are the real, real callings. Those are the real passions. 

Lesley Logan 37:19  

And also, like, as you're saying all of that, it's like, I, you don't have to sell the painting to be the artist. And you don't have to paint for a living to be an artist, you can actually...(Sunitha: exactly yes) because you're called to. And, and the other things that you do, don't have to have, like, whether or not maybe want to be an accountant, but like maybe accounting provides you with the time to be the artist. And so you can instead of like putting this pressure on, like who am I as an accountant? It's like, How can I? How can I allow my, the thing that pays for the life that I want to live to do that and not stress me out so that I can do these things over here that are the reason why I have what I want is that.

Sunitha Sandeep 38:03  

That's a very beautiful way that you coach because livelihood doesn't equate to your passion and purpose. It can't be the same. It can't be the same. For some people, it's the same. But then what we forget is even when people say Oh, this is my passion, this is exactly what I wanted to do. And I'm also able to earn money, your passion and purpose changes. Within five years, after five years, like let's say you're earning, you're like literally settled today with exactly what you wanted to do. If you're holding on to the same passion and purpose, it's a suffering again for you. So within some time, your passion and purpose will change because you have expanded as an individual. So if you're trying to always keep your livelihoods with your passion and purpose, it's again, a constant struggle and burnout and overwhelm, shouldn't keep it separate. It's like, I'm fine doing the job that I'm doing. But I'm finding the passion and the purpose because again, passion and purpose that result. There's a misnomer that passion and purpose is something that you do. Passion and purpose is more about what flows from you no matter what you do. And it's not easy to get this difference from many, because we usually Oh, I'm I'm passionate about dancing, so I need to dance. I know you're passionate about expressing. Yeah. And dance is just one form of it. You can express it anywhere. For me, when I started like you know what is it that I really want to be doing in my life and so on then you really just go into the internet and social media. They'll be like 10 questions, what is it that you want to do and what did you like doing as a kid and blah, blah, blah. And I wrote all of those things. None of them felt like they even close to my passion. I'm like, No, this is is exactly not what I want to do. And, and 15 years ago, if you had asked me if coaching was something that I wanted to do, like, as a kid or so I would say no, like, always kind of listen to somebody, and not the kind of a person like, you know, but that was who I thought I was. Yeah. But then, for me, what came out of this whole transformation is presence, consciousness. And I love to get other people present. And I love to be present, no matter what I do. So I take that passion, I take that purpose, into everything that I do, whether I'm teaching, whether I'm speaking, whether I'm coaching, whether I'm at my corporate work, or whether I'm at my, at my family, with my kids, with my husband, with my dog, or I'm singing, I'm also a singer, then, of course, it's not that it's so seamless and 100% of the time that I'm there. But that's, that's my pots.

Lesley Logan 40:57  

Yeah. Well, and also, like, Thank you for saying that about the even if your passion and purpose are making a livelihood right now, in five years, it's going to change and, and it may be a different timeline for some people, but I do believe you are correct, because I was very, I found myself very lucky that my what I loved to do very much supported me and it supported me and bringing my husband onto the team. And then, but there was this like this, that that inkling of over it wasn't even overwhelm. I don't know, maybe it was overwhelm. But I felt that this like thing like this isn't, this isn't fulfilling the thing it used to fulfill anymore. And it's not that I wanted to do with because Brad was like, well, we could just quit that one that I always ask myself that question. When I'm feeling that way. I'm like, what if I just quit? And usually that makes me go, no, no, I actually love this. I love this thing that I'm doing. But my purpose had changed. And if similar to you, if someone had asked me 15 years ago, actually someone did they're like, Oh, do you wanna run a studio? When I first started teaching, I was like, No, I don't want to do that. I want to manage anybody. But I ended up running the studio. And then I closed that studio. Now I, you know, it was my husband, I run three companies. And I never wanted to do that. But the reason I do it now, is because the purpose that I have has changed. And the impact that I want to make requires this, this change. But where I get my passion has become even more clear. And it can happen through this podcast, it can happen to the coaching or it could happen when I'm walking my dogs or when I'm at the gym, like so it's actually quite cool that like, It's actually amazing. Because if you start to think, Oh, my passion and purpose in my life are the same. It's gonna be really hard for you to not do them. Like what do you do on your day off? What do you do on a hobby? Yeah, like that becomes really complicated if you have them so a mesh and you don't see how they can they can be outside of your livelihood.

Sunitha Sandeep 42:59  

Yeah, imagine imagine if your passion purpose and livelihood everything is just a, even for some people that is fine too. If you're talking to your kids, or if you're being with your kids, and somewhere you will be like oh, this is not my passion or this is not my purpose. Imagine if that happens, how things are going to turn up for you as a parent. Yeah. So again, the passion and the purpose are we need to shift from going passion with an action to more from being perspective more and more like a feminine perspective. It's like what do you want to be no matter what you do? It's like maybe I want to express or maybe I want to be more present or maybe I want to heal or like you know these kinds so it doesn't matter whether you're in any kind of a relationship, whether you're in a big corporate executive having 200 300 people orwhether you're just being with your dog or with your kids that's who you are like you want to heal people, you want to listen to them, you want to be present with them, that's what is going to keep keep you going no matter what changes in your life.

Lesley Logan 44:12  

Yeah. Oh my goodness, I adore you. I love everything you're making my whole life makes sense to me thank you, but also I think you've given so much food for thought for everyone who is trying to make their passionate doing instead of a beam and you know are all about being it until we see it here so anything that can be being is perfect for us. Okay, before I let you go and take a brief break and we're gonna find out people find you, work with you, learn more from you and also your Be It action items.

Sunitha Sandeep 44:40  

Yeah, so everything is there my website, www.sunithasandeep.com I have a master class a free one hour masterclass. 15 minute masterclass that talks about my awake program. And many people have just got shifts by just watching this and it's like, oh my god, this is who I am or this is what I need to do. And this is the way and so, so feel free to just go subscribe yourself to that and watch that masterclass. I also have a free ebook that I have on my website that talks a little bit more into my own journey as a as a trauma survivor. And I also have a TEDx talk that I have linked in there that you can go watch that will give you a little bit more hope, even if you have gone through any kind of trauma and and how you can use trauma as a catalyst for your positive growth. So there are a few articles and I love writing. So I write a lot of blog articles, and a very different way from the mainstream way of looking at things. So it'll be a little bit contradictory what I write, but I think hopefully touches somebody who's ready for that, for that change.

Lesley Logan 45:47  

Yeah. Love all that. Thank you. For all those, we'll put those in the resources in the show notes below. So you can easily click on them, they'll also be on the website. So you can click on there before I let you go bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it, what do you have for us?

Sunitha Sandeep 46:03  

Number one starts from acceptance, period. Period, like acceptance from the mental level acceptance from your emotional level acceptance from your somatic level, accept and see how the world changes for you. A very, very deep acceptance. That's all. Yeah, literally. That's all because if you can accept your pain, if you can accept your suffering, you will get into to your evolution in like a quantum shift.

Lesley Logan 46:34  

Yeah, it sounds simple and complicated at the same time.

Sunitha Sandeep 46:39  

It is complicated, it is. It's not easy to do. Sounds way, way simple. But again, to go through the path of acceptance is a multiple transformative shift and an acceptance leads to awakeness. You will feel alive, you will feel awake, you will finally feel like you have gotten up from from your sleep. And it'll lead you to many places.

Lesley Logan 47:06  

Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your amazing words. I got so much out of this. I know those of you listening probably got some amazing nuggets, please make sure that you share them, put them on your socials, text it to a friend because the more of us that are understanding the difference between overwhelmed and overloaded and, and acceptance versus what we think we're supposed to be doing and all the things you just said the more of us who can do that, the easier it is for all of us to do it. Honestly.

Sunitha Sandeep 47:35  

Yeah. It just spreads.

Lesley Logan 47:38  

Yeah. So y'all, thank you for listening. Make sure you tag at the Be It pod, when you share this tag Sunitha and let us know how this affected you in your life and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help

 both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or

 subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself

 over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.

 I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear

 it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a

 production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 47:49  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 47:49  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 47:49  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist

 Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 47:49  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our

 transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 47:49  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell

 for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brad takes the mic for this FYF episode, sharing a touching client success story and his personal journey towards creating a retreat space in Cambodia. Listen in and be inspired to find and celebrate the wins in your own life.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Embracing the bittersweet moments when clients achieve their dreams.
• The importance of seeking joy beyond financial gains.
• Brad shares the journey of realizing a dream retreat space in Cambodia.
• Celebrating small and big wins can uplift and inspire in challenging times.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Sonia, an agency member
• Cambodia Pilates Retreat

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

https://

Join us at our West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour - Aug. 8-20, 2023

Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:00  

Fuck yeah. 

Lesley Logan 0:39  

Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Brad Crowell 0:57  

Brad here filling in for Lesley, for this week's Friday Fuck yeah, Friday. All right, y'all obviously I'm not Lesley it's my first time hoppin in here today to, to step in on FYF. And I'm really fired up to do it, it's gonna be, it's interesting for me, Lesley is incredibly like introspective and innovative, and she has these, she's just a thinker, right? She does all that stuff. And I don't, usually this isn't a strength of mine. So sitting here, celebrating wins is as much of a new practice for me as it may be for you. And I hope that you, you know, hear these wins today. And you also see how you can find something joyous in your life to celebrate, even though things may be difficult or stressful for you, or whatever it is, there's always a win that you can find in your life. And I hope that you enjoy what you're hearing today. So Sonia wrote in and she said, a bittersweet win for me. Last week, my absolute fave client told me today that he just can't continue with me anymore. You know, those clients that even your family knows about because you talk about them so much. The win, he was selected for the National taekwondo team, he cannot afford financially and timewise to continue, as he has to travel halfway up the country to go to his training sessions alongside a demanding job. He started with me in December 2022, because he had injured his back working, and had to give up all of his training, etc. And I got him fighting fit again. And I used to be a black belt in martial arts. So I totally understand what the body needs. And he told me today that because of our sessions, he feels stronger than ever before, which got him back to training. And because of that, he's now made the GB team, Great Britain team. I'm not crying, three exclamation points there. He's writing me a testimonial. Well, Sonia, that is amazing. And I totally understand that bittersweetness. But also to, you know, hopefully, he came saying, hey, you know, I am injured and I need to get fit again. And you helped him accomplish his goal. So congratulations for doing that. That is incredible. And also kudos to your client for being able to compete and make that taekwondo team. That's a massive accomplishment for him. And you know what? You get to celebrate that, and also getting a testimonial from him is going to be really helpful, of course, for you to find additional clients that you can help who are maybe in exactly that same situation that he's in. So I love it. I think it's really tough to lose a client that way. But also, you know, you get to be excited for him. So I love it. Awesome. Thanks so much for sharing that, Sonia. Great job. All right. So today for us. For me, I was thinking about, like, what is a win something that I can truly celebrate? And I took a little time to think because mostly, most often, you know, thing that I stress about the most is money, right? And how do we pay for all the things and get all things and sometimes you don't know where the money's coming from, and blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff. And that's, you know, I didn't want to talk about money today. So I thought, what else can I celebrate, that doesn't have to do with a thing that makes me feel safe. Right? And I was thinking about a goal that we had years ago, we, as you all know, we have a property in Cambodia. And when Lesley and I were talking about it, you know, it was like, you know, the there was the long term concept of the goal, whatever it might be, you know, how you look ahead in the future, right? And I thought, man, you know what we could eventually it could just be a full time retreat space, right? And it was like, well, we didn't even start step one yet. But that was the initial goal was like someday this space after we run our retreats, figure it all out, get it dialed in. We could then open it up and it could be a retreat space for others to bring their groups in. And for the very first time, that is going to happen this year. This October, so I'm so fired up, I'm so grateful that we, you know, it's taken years to get to this point, we got our, the first time we ever went to Cambodia was in 2016, we started taking retreats there in 2017. We secured our place there 2018. It is 2023, y'all. So five years, it's taken, obviously COVID really jacked things up. But five years, and we're finally hosting another group that has nothing to do with Pilates, and they just loved our space and the experience they came with us to do, you know, to experience our retreat, and it was a really great time and a lot of fun and, and she thought, man, I can host my group here, and it could be a similarly fun experience for my group. And so I am just so fired up that that is actually coming to fruition. This dream that we've had, and you know, you know, in the future, there are still more goals, right? things grow and change, and there's dreams and all the things and you know, what I hope to be able to do with this is to begin training a team to be there when I can't be there and host groups for us on our behalf, on our company's behalf, to create that same experience, that same incredible fun vibe and really play host that we get to do when we take our groups there. So anyway, thank you so much for joining me today and let me hop in to celebrate Fuck Yeah Friday. And, you know, like I said at the beginning, you know, take a look at these wins today and find something in your life that you could celebrate and write it down and say it out loud, share it with a friend, share with a partner or share it with us because we are happy to feature it on a future FYF alrighty, bye now.

Lesley Logan 4:55  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.  I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 5:39  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 5:47  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 5:53  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 5:59  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 6:07  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join Lesley and Brad as they unlock the secrets of self-efficacy. Learn how to take action and achieve your goals, even when you're not ready. Say "no" to prioritize personal growth, build a thriving network, and foster a vibrant community. Get inspired to conquer your goals in this motivating discussion.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The value of self-efficacy.
• What indicates a need for self-efficacy.
• How saying “no” can drive you forward on your journey.
• How meaningful conversations lead to a thriving community.

Episode References/Links:

• 2023 West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour
• Agency coaching team waitlist
• Ep 95: Learn and Relearn Your Body’s Dialogue (ft. Jenny Schatzle)
• The Power of No Bundle by JJ DiGeronimo
• JJ DiGeronimo’s website

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Join us at our West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour - Aug. 8-20, 2023

Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:00  

I just wanted to define self-efficacy. So it's an individual's belief in his or her capacity to execute behaviors necessary to produce the performance, like the results, right? So it's your belief in yourself, effectively, confidence, like that concrete ability to know, I got this.

Lesley Logan 0:24  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained 1000s of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity. And it's the antidote to fear. Each week my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice not a perfect, let's get started! 

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad, and I are going to discuss the inspirated convo.

Brad Crowell 2:20  

No,inspirited

Lesley Logan 2:20  

Inspirited convo I had with (...) JJ DiGeronimo in our last episode. I hope it's encouraging to you. I hope it's inspirit to you...(Brad: inspiriting) Yeah. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen that one, and then come back and join us. If you know the definition with Brad just learned...(Brad: yes, it means encouraging). Yeah. So I hope that my mistakes are encouraging to you. Okay, Today is August 10. It's National update your bio day. So team, go do that. No, I'm kidding. Nothing brings you (...)

Brad Crowell 2:54  

It's not update your boss's bio day. It's update your bio day. So you remember that LinkedIn profile that you started 10 years ago and haven't looked at since? Yeah, that that bio.

Lesley Logan 3:05  

Go update that bio. Go update all of your handles, like look at all your stuff. Like just go look and make sure like...

Brad Crowell 3:11  

Every once in a while I go back into Facebook, and I'm like, How did I describe myself in 2012?

Lesley Logan 3:16  

You just leave it there to, like, reflect back on every year?

Brad Crowell 3:19  

No, I look at it and I change it. 

Lesley Logan 3:21  

Okay, so yeah, he does it every six years, guys. So, you guys we are on tour on this date. We are on the road (...)

Brad Crowell 3:33  

The 10th? We are in Sacramento. We're in Fairfield, Sacramento, Grass Valley.

Lesley Logan 3:40  

We're at our sponsors headquarter. So, Balanced Body is sponsoring the tour and we're doing some really fun things with them to just make it a big community event. We love Balanced Body Contrology all that they do. How supportive they are with the community.

Brad Crowell 3:59  

That's exactly I was gonna say, the alignment their community is one of the things we always talk about and love the most is that they're all about community. And that's something as you know, OPC is one of the founding pillars of OPC is community as well.

Lesley Logan 4:08  

Yeah. When I told them we were I told them in 2018 We're getting the band and they're like to go on tour? And I'm like, yeah, like, Huh. And I was like, huh, noted. We've been touring for a while and it's the first time we get to like partner up with someone I can't I am so excited. I am so so grateful. So go to opc.me/tour because just because we're already on tour doesn't mean that you can't still join us because Brad and Balanced Body put me in 14 fucking cities, guys. 

Brad Crowell 4:35  

Yeah, we did it...(Lesley: They did it.) So in fact, if you're getting this in the morning and you listen to it live and you're in Sacramento, there may actually be more room in the class. I don't know. So otherwise we still have Bend Oregon, Portland, Portland, Seattle, Spokane, Whitefish, Montana, Salt Lake City, Utah, St. George, Utah. That's right.

Lesley Logan 4:58  

Yes. Someone asked, You didn't say Vegas? I was like, No, I live here. I'm here, like Viva Las Vegas get over here when I'm here, which is not very long because we back from the tour of them going to Poland. Meet me in Poland, you guys, I don't know what I'm coming back. So this is your chance. And I'm so excited. We've got some of our Agency members meeting me in Poland, OPC members meeting me in Poland. So and then we're going to also I come back from Poland and we go right into the seven day coaching program called Agency MINI, it's Agency MINI number nine, you guys. Yeah, so it's our tried and true program. It is this if you're listening to this in real time, you can get on the waitlist still and still get the access to the four extra weeks for the early bird price. However, if you're listening to us a week after, still get on the waitlist, but you'll just hear about you will make sure you hear about the early bird price when it comes out. So go to profitablepilates.com/mini to get on that waitlist. Yep. Then we'll be home for a couple weeks. And we go to Cambodia in October. So so freaking excited, can't wait, bring on the humidity, I'm ready. And then we're still at this moment working out November details. Honestly, like it's probably worked out by the time this comes out. But while recording it, I'm still working on it. I'm waiting on a few things. But I have some ideas. And then December we're gonna be back on the road for our winter tour. So those of you who are like, ah, but I live in Chicago, we haven't forgotten about you. It's freaking cold there. So I'm still not sure but but we all get to the other half of the country ish. If you're on the 70, or the 20, or the 10. I don't really know what we're taking. But we were taking something and if you're on that, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Okay. Before we talk to JJ, or about JJ, I should say what is our audience question? 

Brad Crowell 4:58  

Oh, yeah. I mean, right now, y'all when we're recording this, we're having record breaking heat in Vegas. It's supposed to be 117 which is like one degree shy of the hottest ever recorded and

Lesley Logan 7:02  

115 right now. Yeah. And the high today is 116. So we did not hit the high.

Brad Crowell 7:09  

Well, that's so people keep asking like they keep everyone's like, Hey, are you guys okay? Like what's going on? How do you handle the heat? And honestly, it's, it's not rocket science. It's just simply stay inside. Yeah, stay inside, make sure you have air conditioning, or we have an evap cooler. And we're, we're, we're, we're testing out that evap cooler, pushing it pretty hard right now, usually, when it gets this hot the evap cooler doesn't work very well. But it's not so bad...(Lesley: Speak for yourself.) We're only sweating a little.

Lesley Logan 7:42  

I'm not doing another night with the evap cooler.

Brad Crowell 7:44  

We definitely could kick on the AC, when it gets this hot. That's the, that's usually when you want to kick it.

Lesley Logan 7:50  

But I just think like nothing is actually everything has balance, right? Nothing is actually perfect. So like, I would love to hit live in Hawaii, I would love it. But then my oatmilk be $10 So I could have the beautifulness of Hawaii everyday, I could wake up looking at the water every day. And I better know how to make my fucking own oat milk. You know, like, or every time I want to ship something, it's like a thing to get it there total or I could live in California. But then I have to deal with like lack of space or more expensive housing or whatever or, and I love California trust me I'd go back any day. But there's we have so much space in our house in Vegas, we have amazing, pretty amazing neighbors. And for three months of the year, it's a little bit fucking hot. And you know, everyone just knows. Yeah, and everyone just does it. And you know, we went to a house party. And we sat outside because like, you also like you kind of just go this is this is three months of the year. It's three months, you know,

Brad Crowell 8:50  

like it's not even it's like hotter than it's really like one maybe like six weeks with the hottest part of it. So like yeah, it gets gets hot. And then it gets hot. 

Lesley Logan 8:59  

Yeah, so more importantly, we just have to make sure the dogs stay in the house. Yes. I'm looking at you August, someone through a bedroom window while we were gone, so he was out the backyard all night. So that was fun. Just like probably at least an hour. At any rate. You just you kind of like check on the people who are older. That's like I'm more concerned with them. And then like yeah, you don't like I'm not lunging like I don't understand why people come to Vegas in the summer. But they do they love Vegas in the summer and I mean the pool is fine, but it's hot. So you know. Thank you for the concerns. We've gotten so many texts. And also like just come to Vegas in the fall and spring. I promise you it's better.

Brad Crowell 9:39  

Or even the winter. It's nice when it's cold here. Yeah, love it. Oh pretty.

Lesley Logan 9:42  

The Cactus looks so pretty when it's cold. Sometimes there's snow on them anyways.

Brad Crowell 9:46  

Okay, now let's talk about JJ DiGeronimo, an empowering award winning author and passionate advocate for women's self efficacy. JJ champions the power of saying no, to help women step into what life is calling them to do instead.

Lesley Logan 11:06  

Yeah, so loved her. Because she's like, such a Be It Till You See It kind of person, like everything she coaches on people doing is acting before they're ready. So we talked a lot about self efficacy. And I think that's really, it's a cool thing to think about. I don't think people think about that they think about competence. And, and that's up, but like self efficacy, is learned.

Brad Crowell 11:26  

Yeah, and I just wanted to find self efficacy. So it's an individual's belief in his or her capacity to execute behaviors necessary to produce the performance, like the results, right? So it's your belief in yourself, effectively, confidence, like that concrete ability to know, I got this.

Lesley Logan 11:48  

Yeah. So she said it is learned. And it's having a vision for where you want to go and believing you can achieve it. But the catch is, you can only grow your self efficacy if you take opportunities before you're ready. So you're going to have to believe you can do the thing before you're ready to do the things that you can do the things.

Brad Crowell 12:07  

Somebody told me about a podcast that talks all about that...(Lesley Oh, is that is that this one?) Oh? Is that Be It Till You See It?

Lesley Logan 12:13  

Ding ding ding, you're a winner. So, she said, if you are waiting to be 100% prepared or 120% prepared, you're actually hurting yourself. You're not doing anything for that competence. Bucket baby. You're not doing anything for your Be It bucket. You're not doing anything for your self efficacy bucket. Listen to that, and see how many times it took me to get that one. So she said take the leap. She said, Go for it. Go make the call. Do the Google Search. She encourages women to step into their potential even when they only feel 60 to 70%. (...)

Brad Crowell 13:28  

That's her 70% rule. Yeah, I think it's cool.

Lesley Logan 13:31  

So I was gonna say something. I was walking with Jenny Shatel. Shout out to my baby. She is episode 68.

Brad Crowell 13:41  

What? Hello, I'm looking now.

Lesley Logan 13:43  

Look it up. Look it up. I might be really off because I really just guessed. I really guess. However, we had her on the podcast totally early on. So that was kind of my thing.

Brad Crowell 13:53  

Episode 95. 

Lesley Logan 13:54  

Okay. Not even close. At any rate. So she and I were talking about how like, women will see a job available, and they'll have nine of the 10 requirements. And they'll go Oh, I gotta wait that 10 thing then I can apply. But a dude we'll have four or five and go yep, applying for that. I got this. And so like, I like, I love that she's like getting people to 60 or 70% ready, because I don't think that women would do it at 50% ready, but like, ladies, we are missing out on changing lives, on feeling seen, on doing the thing that we feel worthy doing because we're waiting to have 100 to have all I've heard people have all of the things and go, Yeah, but like, I've only been doing it for a couple of years. And sure maybe if all the things that's all things they wanted all those things. They didn't say how many years, right? There's all these things. And so I just get really annoyed when I see that because I don't know who fucking taught that to us. But we got to stop and thank you for JJ going 70% Ready, roll.

Brad Crowell 14:59  

(...) We talk about it all the time with Profitable Pilates. And, you know, you're totally right. I think that there's another, you know, a clear indicator of self efficacy that needs to be learned and worked on would be if you're constantly trying to get new certifications for new things. Why? Yeah, right. And I'm not saying that there's a valid reason. But there, well, there might be a valid reason. Or maybe the valid reason is that you're not confident in yourself. 

Lesley Logan 15:30  

Oh, one of our Agency members is like, Hey, there's this like, opportunity to this training and like, what do you think? And I said, Is this something your clients are asking you more information on? Do you need more information on this topic to affect the clients you currently have? Or is this because you want to nerd out? Which is totally fine. Sure. But if you think it's going to make you more famous, it's not.

Brad Crowell 15:58  

Or if you think it's going to bring you more clients, it's not.

Lesley Logan 16:01  

No, you get more clients by going out and getting more clients and telling them how you can help them. So unless you need this thing, because of all the clients are trying to help, like, for example, I had a couple of people I was coaching who had one Parkinson patient come through, they did some research, but then that doctor was like, Hey, can you take more, then yes, she needs to go get more training. I have like, I'm not a pre postnatal teacher, I can teach my clients who get pregnant. But if I was to be someone who wanted to teach pre postnatal clients, as a majority, I would want to get that training. So like it's like (...)

Brad Crowell 16:34  

For you, for example, you know, certified in Pilates forever, right? And you were like, huh, I am looking at my offering of what I want to work with my clients on and I don't need another movement certification, but I could get a breathwork certification. Or I could get a habits mindfulness mindset certification. Yeah. Right. And so these are the kind of the different pillars of the overall product that you're offering. Yes, in the long term. And so supporting those things, gives you more qualifications towards your ultimate gold. That makes total sense. But you don't need to do another Pilates certification.

Lesley Logan 17:10  

No, I also, this is really a hilarious I remember I had moved one of my clients had him for like 12 years, and I had to move him to take a session to take a workshop with my teacher, Jay. And he goes, you know, if you are taking this workshop, so you can just raise your rates again, like we don't really care what you're learning their. We're good. And I said, Thank you, I will continue to raise your rates every year. However, it's not because I'm getting this this workshop. And that's when we actually talked about with our Agency members just like do not write because of our continued education we're raising our rates. No, because everything goes up every year, we're raising our rates.

Brad Crowell 17:50  

Because my coffee is $1 more now, I'm raising your rates.

Lesley Logan 17:54  

Because my rent went up. I'm raising your rates like you going and getting more certificates and more education needs to have a valid reason and not be because I need to be 100% ready for something you're more than ready than you think. And it's going to help that self efficacy when you go for it sooner than you're ready. All right, Brad, your turn. Okay. I just wanted to point out, I said it right that time. 

Brad Crowell 18:15  

You did, nailed it. All right. Okay, so she said, to create things that are going to act as a catapult. Right. And specifically, what she was talking about was prioritizing yourself by saying no. And this is really interesting, because she said she, you know, was a single working in tech startups through her 20s and 30s. And it wasn't until her 30s That she decided to start saying yes to things like getting married, moving to the suburbs, procreating, having kids, you know, and so she, but in that, she said, it's so easy for me to understand how women get lost in their 30s and 40s. Because of all the things that we pile on that we think, Oh, this is the normal course of things. Maybe we'll just buy a house or maybe we'll just have a kid or have another kid or whatever, get a dog. I mean, when you start saying yes to all that stuff, you're you know, no, no problem with those things. But you also have to remember that you have the power to say no, as well, because you need to make sure you can prioritize yourself, and when you're prioritizing yourself, that can act as a catapult to help move you forward. Right. So especially when it comes to confidence, she said, she asserts that one must prioritize or believe in what you're pursuing, and confidently allocate time to create things that will act as that catapult and so the power of saying no aligns with that. And then you you know, it allows you to be when you say no, it allows you to focus on the things that you did say yes to

Lesley Logan 19:59  

Yeah. I just was sitting here thinking we need a mug that says no. And on the back, it says...(Brad: me first) me first. I'm saying yes to something else. Meridith. Yeah, yeah. I really love this. It's actually really funny when people have asked, and they probably never asked you, but they always ask me, like, Oh, are you and Brad gonna have kids? And I say no. And they like, look, and I'm like, I really enjoy the time I have with him. I really enjoy the things that we do in this life. And if we had kids, that would change and people go well, yeah, but she'd be like, No, yeah, I really enjoy this. Yeah, I don't need to figure it out.

Brad Crowell 20:42  

I love traveling. Like, I don't I don't want to mess that up.

Lesley Logan 20:46  

No, we already have three dogs that already mess it up. Yeah, so I'm solid. And they're like, their psyche is not going to be so fucked up. That's gonna affect the rest of the world. So like, it's too much pressure for me. 

Brad Crowell 20:58  

Yeah, so I mean, you know, we've talked about this before in the past, boundaries, prioritizing yourself. But I think that the difference here with JJ is she's really talking about, you know, being conscientious. What you're saying yes to? And you are allowed to say no. Because when you say no, you're, it's giving you the focus to make the yeses even more powerful. 

Lesley Logan 21:28  

JJ, love you. That's great.

Brad Crowell 21:33  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be it action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items. Can we take away from your convo with JJ DiGeronimo. She said being conscious of what you're saying yes and no to. We just talked about that. But she said there's she's got a helpful, you know, action item that you can take right now you can download her Power For No bundle, okay. It's available in the show notes, which is on our website. And she named it the Power of No, because once you really start being conscious of what you're saying yes and no to you, you'll start feeling more confident in yourself. Right? So when you're conscious of what you're saying yes and no to, you're going to feel more confident in yourself, you're going to get a little bit more power back. And just like we were talking about with the takeaways, you know, that the saying no, you're actually practicing. Hold on, what was it was practicing the efficacy? (...) You're practicing self efficacy when you say no, and her handy little chart is going to help you kind of map that out. So check out the show notes below, go download her Power for No bundle. 

Lesley Logan 22:43  

Yeah. So I think that's a fun bundle. I'm excited about that. So she said, there's many people out there who want to help people, but ya have to be asked in the right like you've to be asked in the right way. So one of the ways I'm gonna tell you, you're not gonna ask anyone is can I pick your brain? Nobody wants a brain picked. It doesn't sound pleasant. Just like I listen to that. No one wants it...(Brad: Can I pick your nose?) Can I meet you for coffee and pick your brain? No. But if you she talked about her own personal story, when she wanted to publish her book, she looked at different authors who publish a book, she did some research on the posts that she did. And then she was very specific, when she was like, Okay, I think I have an idea what I need to do. But I'm gonna reach out to these influencers and ask specific questions, and ask her if she can have a 20 minute call with them to ask these questions. So you, you have to understand that people do want to, I love helping people. And I will tell you this, when people ask me a very specific question, I am more likely to answer a specific question, even if it is I love this question. And I answered all the time in my coaching group, and here's how you can do that. Right? But if you're just like, hey, I've been doing memberships, like, what do you think I need to know? It's like, yeah, I don't even want to tell you like I like my response now to you to be my coaching group is going to sound like I'm being vague. 

Brad Crowell 23:59  

Or like, what do you think I should do? I think you should google it. 

Lesley Logan 24:02  

Yeah. So like, you and I understand when you're in the beginning of things, you're not really sure. But this is what is so much different than like our lives versus women in their 40s. In the 80s lives, y'all, they did not have the Google that we have today. So like they had to go to the library, they had to like, climb the ladders of like, hit the glass ceiling. So we had this opportunity to like look at people who are a little bit further ahead than us more further ahead than us, like, all the different levels ahead and kind of go okay, this person is two steps ahead. What did they do when I when they did this? Okay, cool. I can do that. Oh, this person, okay. And then also ask them do you have this as a resource? Because then you're giving them permission to give you resources if they're very busy, and they don't have to feel like an asshole as well. So I'm, I'm big on that. So um, but I also want to also she said, like cultivating these conversations with different people. That's how networks are built up. If you're not meant to do this alone, you do need to put yourself in rooms where people are doing things at 70%, you do need to be in rooms where people are a little bit I've talked about this before plus, minus and equals, you need to be you need to have someone who's in front of you. You have someone who's at your level, and you have someone that is behind you, because then you'll actually get competence by helping the person who's behind you, you'll have someone who, who lets you feel like you're like, Oh, we're doing it like today, as I call it, Lauren, we're we are at equal. We're both like trying to kick some fucking ass to get our businesses to this next level. We've had great success, we want another level. We know the people who are plus, and I'd love to be on a walk and talk with them. But I like we got to get there for or I need to pay them for their time. So worth anyways.

Brad Crowell 25:44  

But I think what the cultivating you know, those relationships, you know, she actually led by example here a couple years ago, she started a group for moms in tech. And it started with like, 14 ladies and they didn't even talk about work. They just talked about life. And that group has grown to 8000 people. It's insane. Yeah, pretty banana. So anyway, love that, you know, being in community. We're all about that.

Lesley Logan 26:12  

Yeah. Well, how are you going to use these tips in your life? 

Brad Crowell 26:15  

Yeah, we want to know. 

Lesley Logan 26:16  

I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 26:17  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 26:18  

Make sure you share this with someone who needs to learn the word now. Make sure you share this someone who needs to apply before they're ready. Sometimes they don't, you know, you're like I've already told them so then have someone else tell them.

Brad Crowell 26:27  

Yeah, send this podcast. 

Lesley Logan 26:28  

Yeah. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. Bye for now.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you, share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day.

Be It Till You See It is a production of the Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 27:11  

It's written filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 27:16  

It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 27:19  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding designer and artist Cianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 27:26  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating your visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 27:32  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content for website and finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all onpoint and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Catch this insightful episode where JJ chats with Lesley about her personal transition from saying 'yes' to harnessing the power of 'no.' JJ spotlights the unique obstacles women face in the publishing industry and imparts her wisdom on practices that can spark your self-confidence in choosing the right 'yeses' in your life.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The uphill battle for women when publishing books.
• How to build a tribe and navigate your 'yeses' and 'no's'.
• How to start a side hustle alongside a full-time job.
• How to embrace imperfections and act on opportunities.
• Embracing your multidimensionality.
• Tapping into feminine energy for success. 

Episode References/Links:

• Follow JJ DiGeronimo on LinkedIn
• The Power of No Bundle
• Books written by JJ Digeronimo
• Accelerate Your Impact
• Seeking
• Together We Seek

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript:

JJ Di Geronimo 0:00  

Why are so many women in middle management? And why aren't women getting the opportunity? So it just was, took me just off guard in the sense that I thought so many more women were happy. And what I found in doing a lot of my speaking in meetings is that women still had a lot to give and do, but they couldn't figure out how to make it happen.

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right loves, I'm so excited for the incredible guest you're about to listen to today, this woman is on a mission to empower you to take more seats to the tables that you want to be at. She is unstoppable. And you're gonna hear that from her. And she really followed this, this draw inside of her like what to do next, and how to share that with others. And I think that's really important. And I know if you're listening to us that you are that woman, you are the woman who like learn something, and you share it with others. And the more that we do that, and the more that we show up before we're ready, the better this world is going to be. And a lot of things in this world could be different if more of us step up before we ready, we're ready. And I know that scary for you. I know you're listening to this, because that's a little scary for you. But JJ actually has this incredible moment, you'll know in the moment is because I'll tell you to rewind and listen again, is this incredible moment where she really will tell you the truth about who you are and what you do. And too often, we we as women wait until we're 100% ready to we have all the things and so I hope that this episode is the kick in the pants you need before you're ready to do the thing, to ask for help, to do something a little bit scared. And she's got three books out at the time that this was recorded. She's got incredible resources for you and then the Be It action items. She's got this freebie that I really want you to use because I don't know about you, but sometimes it's a little hard to go, Should I say yes to this? I say no to this? So, at any rate, this episode is for you ladies, and I cannot wait to hear how you show up differently afterwards. 

All right, Be It babes. I'm so excited. First of all, I love when another person uses initials because I'm LL, our guest today is JJ. So we're like, you know, we're definitely helping you understand the alphabet. But also I love when powerful women are doing things to help other women do what they want to do. And our guest today is absolutely someone who's going to empower you to rock your world. JJ Di Geronimo. Hello, welcome to the Be It pod. Thank you for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at these days?

JJ Di Geronimo 0:30  

Sure, sure. So thank you so much, LL, for having me here. I couldn't be more thrilled I really work to share my lessons as a human design three, five, I have to do it. And when I perfected or I get really good at it, that I share it. And that's why I have several books. But really, the whole focus is to empower women to step into what is calling them. And my personal preference is to get more women at more tables.

Lesley Logan 0:54  

Hmm, I love that. What a great mission. I know my human design word, but I don't know my numbers, I need to go back and look at them because I remember them being on the sheet. So that's so cool. We just had a guest on who does Enneagram and I'm like, well, crap. Now I gotta know that number too. So, how did you get started in this though? Because I mean, like, I imagine there had to be something that made you go, Okay, this is the thing I want to do, because it's not exactly the easiest torch to bear.

JJ Di Geronimo 1:24  

I really think just out of my sole own self need. I didn't get married until I was 30. I didn't have kids till I was in my mid 30s. I lived in Ohio, but had an office in Silicon Valley. And then I started saying all these yeses, like, Yes, I'll marry you. Yes, we'll move to the suburbs. Yes, I'll procreate. And I was never really schooled on how difficult that was going to be to manage. And I think you know, so many people say you can have it all, you can have it all, you can have it all. And even if you go to several panels, which I had done my whole career and look, people said, oh, you know, they really didn't like lift the covers up to say how hard it is to find someone to work in your home and be with your children, how hard it is to get your husband your schedule lined up. So I started a woman's group in 2008 of all women in tech, and it was just 12 women. And we talked nothing about tech, we really just talked about keeping all the arrows going in the right direction. And that really was the basis for my first book. And I wrote my first book really for my daughter, because I didn't want her to have to struggle like I was struggling at the time.

Lesley Logan 2:24  

I love that you bring that up. Because I do think people say you can have it all. And I'm not saying that you cannot have it all. But like, it'd be really nice if they would say and here's, here's how hard it is to have it all.

JJ Di Geronimo 2:34  

Or here's the team, here's the people, you need to be behind you that are running around to be all these things you don't have time to do. Because you're making the money and you're running the group and you're having young children. I mean, it's just an amazing amount of work for women. And it's not surprising how many people basically get lost in their yeses in their 30s and 40s. Because it's just so much to do, whether it's parents, it's things you do in the community, you're having children, maybe you're adopting children, maybe you're just have a mission that you want to work on off the side of your desk, it's a lot to keep everything going.

Lesley Logan 3:09  

So, so you started this group you, you got your first book out. First of all, I think it was wanting to know like, how, like, did you have the team in place, you could write the first book? because that's already one more thing to add to the list of things you added, like you had a balance in your day?

JJ Di Geronimo 3:26  

Yeah, so the first book took me over two years, I wrote from 11 to 2 in the morning, and I could only do it like one or two nights a week. So if I was up late working, and I felt like I had a little more stamina, I would write for two hours. And the universe sort of pulled together people for me. So you know, there's somebody through somebody like, Oh, I think I know an editor or I can figure out how to get you published. It's not easy for women to get published. I'm not gonna say it is in fact, I even this book was hard to get published, I finally just created my own publishing company, because I'm like, you know, there's got to be a way for more women to share their voices. And the work I've had to do for even this third book is ridiculous. I sell so many books, like, it's crazy, the amount of masculine energy that determines whether or not a woman's voice gets published, and I just have had enough of it I just am sick of working in such a masculine dominated planet.

Lesley Logan 4:14  

Well, I mean, like, my goodness, I've been in tech in 200 12 (...) I also imagine that that number, while it can't, it's grown, it's also not nearly the numbers it should be. We had an amazing woman in financial tech on the pod recently. And she's like, ya know, like, there's not a lot of women in that category. And so she's really trying to do the same thing that you're doing to like, help more women understand that side of it. So in 2000 you wrote your first book, or when did you write your first book?

JJ Di Geronimo 4:45  

I wrote my first book in 2009 and 10. I published it in 11 Ithink.

Lesley Logan 4:51  

Yeah. So I will also, I love that you share like you had to do it, like in the middle of the night when you had some energy because I do think that people might not understand that like, when I wrote my book, it was on Sundays, I took an iPad with a keyboard to a Starbucks, so I couldn't be distracted. And I parked the car and I put as much money in the meter as could be. And I would write until the meter was up, and it wasn't allowed to leave. I'm like, You're gonna sip this coffee, we're not going to drink it too fast, because you're not gonna go to the bathroom to distract yourself, you're just gonna, like stay here and write, right? Because it is hard to, one, create that commitment to something that is so, I don't wanna say amorphous, but like, how long is the book gonna be? When is the book gonna get done? It's a little bit hard of a goal to, to see the finish line on. And to be a mom while doing that. That's incredible. What, so, what ended up happening with that group? What did it end up turning into? Or did you did it? Is it still together?

JJ Di Geronimo 5:43  

So yep, so it's based on LinkedIn, it's about 8000 women now...(Lesley: that's insane) I know. And it's not something I do for money. It's just something I did because I needed to feel understood, I needed to understand how to keep everything going. And I felt like I needed my tribe. And so that just tech savvy women just really is just consistently going, and now everybody is in the community, they all help each other. And I have, you know, I've evolved, I've evolved, I'm trying more, I'm doing more. And when I didn't even tell my first company, I didn't even really tell them about my book. When I published it, I kept it super quiet, because I didn't want my company to think I wasn't taking my job seriously. But little by little people would kind of hear about it or read it. And then I started speaking out a lot of women's, women in tech or women in business, women in engineer events. And that was great. We talked a lot about a lot of energizers, things to keep your energy going the right direction, how to say yes, what to say no to how do you align your yeses. But then a lot of women want to know like, how do we get promoted? How do I get on a board? What is a sponsor? How do I find a sponsor? And I just started collecting all these questions women in business would ask. And it's funny because you think I would know what I'd been in tech for over two decades at the point. And there were so many questions, I had still too like, why are so many women in middle management? And why aren't women getting the opportunity? So it just was, took me just off guard in the sense that I thought so many more women were happy. And what I found in doing a lot of my speaking in meetings is that women still had a lot to give and do, but they couldn't figure out how to make it happen.

Lesley Logan 7:16  

And I'm so sorry to cut you off. I think that that is like, first of all, I love that you listen to the questions that you're being asked. And also like, you didn't have to know all the answers to get started. Because that is, I do think it's an interesting thing. People don't know, like, even in all industries, not just the tech industry, it's like because for so long, there was like one woman at the top if there was any. And it was like a numbers game that could only be one. So like, you know, there wasn't a pathway that was shared with anyone and people are kind of guessing and how incredibly fast or women could get there if there was just some sort of like, here's what you need to get a sponsor or here's how you get on a board. Or here's how you get asked to do these things, like, what a great information packet for people to explore. I want to dive into the yeses and the nos. Because you said you were saying yes a lot. And obviously had to learn how to say no and have the right yeses. And and this might be in your book, but how did you start saying no without feeling bad about it?

JJ Di Geronimo 8:12  

Oh, no, you still feel bad. But you have to, you have to prioritize or believe enough what you're running towards, to give you the confidence to allocate time in your schedule to create things that are going to act as a catapult.

Lesley Logan 8:29  

Hmm. Okay. All right. All right. So it all goes back to the schedule everyone.

JJ Di Geronimo 8:35  

Well, and I created a chart because I'm like you, I want to know, like Power of No, positive thinking like how, how, like, I'm an engineering mind, I want a spreadsheet, I want to figure out like step by step. So my first book, the woman Cathy interviewed, she told me a lot about how she prioritized her kids, she basically sat down with them in the beginning of a quarter instead, what games, what plays, what do you want me to be at because she was a single mom, and she had a medical device company. And she traveled the world. So she would put those things in her calendar, and then she would share it with their kids like, I will be at those things, but I will not be at everything, I just can't. So you tell me what's important. And I will be at those things. And she's like, I didn't travel on those days, you know, I really worked my schedule around three or four things we agreed to for her two kids. So we continue to talk, I talked with a lot of leaders. And I put together The Power of No chart and I created it. It's out there for everybody to have and I'll give you the link at the end. But the idea is, is that you have to be really clear on what is the commitment. Who's asking you? does it align to where you are and where you want to go? And what type of energy does it give you? Because that whole equation not only sets you up for success, but it gives you time to really process what's being asked of you. And the last column is how much time does it take? Because I've been asked things that take 40 hours that I could get done in four hours or do something for the same organization or the same initiative for four hours and still get all these checkboxes. So I think being really mindful of what people are asking you and how it fits into your schedule and doesn't aligned where you are or where you want to go gives you permission to decide. Because we give our time away so freely and especially as women because we want to be liked, we don't want to feel guilty, and we want to feel like we're contributing. And that just creates a really busy lifestyle, but it might not create any momentum.

Lesley Logan 10:18  

I love this, I get asked to do a lot of things for people. And, and I know when they ask, they might think it doesn't take that much time, because I'm always filming things. I'm always doing stuff. So I probably like it's no big deal. And but it is, it's like one more thing on the to do list to like plan ahead and do the thing. And I didn't want to say no to this thing. Because I knew that like one of the things I love is to help people feel seen, I love to make like I love to support their passion for a movement. But I also couldn't say yes, if I like had to film from scratch. So I actually was, I went through my old photos. And I was like, do I already have this thing filmed from years ago? Do I still have that filming? And I sent it that I said, Hey, it's a yes, if you can handle this quality of video, it's horizontal. Otherwise, I'm so sorry. Next time, please give me a month's notice. And that was perfect. And so I was able to say yes, but I didn't have all that equation. But I love this equation, because I do think one it's gonna take, it's gonna make you have to take a step back before you say yes to things and give a response. But also, you can have this like, it's a it's true, yes. You're not like, oh, is this the right thing to do? because you've done all the things to, like, ensure it is.

JJ Di Geronimo 11:28  

Yeah, and we'll provide that at the end of the links that people can just download the chapter, the chart and a video, they can figure it out for themselves. But I think what I learned, you know, through the journey of women that want to be more seen, they want more influence, they want more impact, that there is a difference of working in your career and on your career. And this is not something I realized until I started doing the research for the second book, accelerate your impact, because there's just so many of us thinking, if we check every box, and we do everything on our to do list, you know, we're gonna get to that next level. And a lot of times that happens in your 20s and early 30s. But after 35, there's fewer positions in the roles many women are aspiring to, and they have to be more strategic about letting their accomplishments be known, aligning to the right projects, making sure you have somebody in the room that can speak up on your behalf. And and you have already started kind of moving in that direction for the work or influence you're already making. And if you don't have time in your schedule, you can't make that happen. 

Lesley Logan 12:24  

Yeah. So I'm wondering like, taking a step back to when you were doing all of this when you were creating the space in your schedule, when you were trying to like maybe even just reflect on the changes you wanted to make in your career to make room for speaking and make room for your books. What was that like? Was it, was it nerve racking? Were you like, Oh, this is totally gonna work? Like, how did you? How did you get your mindset and even your family on board with these changes? Because it's not like you can just like flip the switch. Like there's there's other people involved.

JJ Di Geronimo 12:54  

Well, first and foremost, I did it off the side of my desk for eight, six years, from 2008 to 2014. I was doing the books, talking, in addition to my tech job in Silicon Valley. So I kind of incorporated it because I was still working with our partners, and I took speaking engagements with people that I knew in the industry. And over time, I kind of was able to make it work. But they did, there did come a point where I'm like, What am I doing? You know, at my 40th birthday, I ended up in Sedona, and I'm like, why am I on this planet? Like really? Why? Because this is exhausting.

Lesley Logan 13:27  

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I think Sedona is a great place to figure out why you're on the planet. It's a beautiful space for that. So now you've have three books out, I know, you've just released one recently, and celebrated an amazing birthday. I'm wondering like, what are you working on now? How are you being until you see it? Like, what's the next step? Have you figured that out yet? Or are you, are you enjoying where you're at?

JJ Di Geronimo 13:52  

Oh, gosh, that's such a big question. So I would say that I've just be transparent. I'm an 80% kind of girl. Like, I don't get caught up on details. You know, I have, I'm not very good. I have to have editors. I'm dyslexic. So I feel like I just keep at it everyday, I just get up and keep at it most of my life that's been off the side of my desk. But it's passion projects that fuel me for other activities in my life. And I really feel that I live my work in the sense that like I'm sharing what I'm going through. So my third book, Seeking, is a book that really taps into all the self doubt that is holding so many women back and dives into really specific situations that probably started decades ago for many women. So whether it's the relationship, your mother, your relationship with money, how you view yourself, you know, how perfectionist plays in, when does confidence walk out the back door? There's all these things that really hold women back. And frankly, we as a planet can't afford that any longer. We need women to step in when they're 60% ready, because honestly, it's not really going that awesome when we keep standing back waiting to say well I didn't check this box. And I didn't get that certification. And I never did that before. Like we birth life, right? We keep our kids alive. We get them into colleges, you know, we keep our parents going, like, we need to step into places that we desire to have more influence and impact at 60 and 70%. And stop nagging ourselves to be 100% ready.

Lesley Logan 15:21  

Oh my gosh, everyone hit rewind, replay that a little bit louder in your ears because, yes, so I have, I've seen other careers just because I get to, like, interview a lot of people, but I saw it in my own where people are like, waiting. They're like, Oh, when I get this certification, then I can actually apply for this thing. I'm like, does that application even asked for that certification? Like, have they even asked you? You know, and the only reason I could say that is because I randomly was given opportunities, because people would ask me a question. And I'm like, Oh, I didn't think about like that. Let me do that thing. And so I found that there is actually no ladder, there's this ladder that everyone is thinking exists in the industry that I'm in, and I managed to get to the top without climbing it. And so it's not because I'm special or unique. It's just because I was like, I actually didn't even know the ladder existed because I wasn't in the industry long enough to know. So I saw that. And too often I see people oh, I need to, I need, someone should tell me and invite me to be that trainer, or someone should tell me or invite me what I should be doing this workshop on how to do this thing. It's like, actually, every single person that I look up to you see has it already. No one actually, no one actually did that. They just were like, it needs to get done. I'm doing the thing, I have the skill set to do it. And and the way you describe it 60 or 70% ready, it's like one of the best ways I've ever heard it described because it's not about being 100% sure, or 100% educated on the thing. It's like, think I know enough to say, here, here I am. And I can do this thing. It's really cool. I loved the way you said that.

JJ Di Geronimo 16:48  

Well, and you obviously have high self efficacy. So self efficacy is learned, self efficacy is having a vision for where you want to go and believing you can achieve it. But here's the catch. You can only grow your self efficacy if you take on opportunities before you're ready. Because it's a memory system of like, Can I do it? Can I do that? Do you think I can pull it across line? And if you're always waiting to be 100 to 120% prepared, you're actually hurting yourself and you're not doing anything in your self efficacy bucket. So for those of you that are listening in, like, go for it, make the phone call, do the Google search, send the email by the URL like whatever it is, I'd have 25 URLs, why? Because they're 13 bucks, and I couldn't make up my mind. So like, do whatever it takes to do a step this week.

Lesley Logan 17:33  

That's like literally how competence is actually born. It's not because you like we're you're reading and go, okay, now, today, I'm confident because you like you did, you took a step. And then you're like, oh, look, what I could do, I could actually buy the URL wasn't actually that as hard as I thought it was going to be, you know, like, we coach them people and they're like, oh, my gosh, I have to get this LLC. And I'm like, you guys, it's a fucking website, like, just go on the thing and like, fill it out. And they're like, I plan the whole day. And it didn't take that long. I'm like, correct. And now and now you're just like, you know, so it's like it does take taking those baby steps. And, and, and not necessarily going I have all the ducks in a row. Because you might not even know what ducks you have to have lined up until you actually take the first step.

JJ Di Geronimo 17:33  

Right. And there's so many people you can find on LinkedIn that are already ahead of you that you could just watch what they're doing. Even call them. You know, when I was publishing my first book, I never published a book, I found a couple of groups that publish books, like a couple of group, author groups on LinkedIn, I watched people post feeds, I found some pretty cool influencers. Some of them were older, younger, I call them and I had a 20 minute call with them. And I just ended up publishing my first book, I have some questions. I can't tell you how many people were like, Yeah, sure, call me. It's fine. I'm like, okay, and I've seen a couple of these people. I've met them in person since and I just feel like there's so many people that want to help people, but they need to be asked in the right way. So you got to follow them, pay attention to what they're doing. Ask them a question, referencing something they've already done. You know, I really think for us, it's just cultivating these conversations and actions that allow you to lean into whatever is calling you to do next.

Lesley Logan 19:03  

Yeah, and I think, I think you mean, like, it's not staying in the background. And then and then trying to figure it out. It's like engaging with the person enough to that they know them and then asking. And so often people just don't even do the ask. They don't ask. So I want to go back to because you just mentioned earlier in our conversation, like you have your own publishing company now, like that is a whole new world. I would imagine like, yes, you've been on the one side of it as an author, but like, I feel like that would, that's, how many books did you have to read? the conversation you have to start, or can anyone do it?

JJ Di Geronimo 19:39  

I mean, you can start anything you want. I have a team of people that helped me get all my assets back for my first two books and help me publish my third book. So there'll be behind the scenes doing it. But the idea was not that I'm going to do it right now necessarily, unless it makes total sense. But what I wanted to get my IP back into, I eventually want to create a path for other women and so I have a community where I'm interviewing all all these energy practitioners because I feel like for me, I had done the Myers Briggs, I've done the Strength Finders, like, it's just so heavy, so masculine, I needed to round out knowledge about myself. So I've used the Enneagram. I've used human design, I've used birth charts. And I feel like a little bit of self awareness comes in every tool you find. And I've been able to step out in my work in a new way, because I see myself multi-dimensional now. And that's just this hardcore, you're a leader, you're insightful. You're like, I want to know more about myself so that I can align with my life's work while I'm here. 

Lesley Logan 20:35  

Yeah, we just had on a woman who is a 20 plus year behavior scientist. And then she studied the Enneagram. And so she brings in all those decades of science around behavior, and then with the Enneagram. So she's really good at typing. And she explained it and I think this is one of the best ways and if you haven't listed episode, just go back in the feed. It's right there. But it's really cool, because she actually explained like, Strength Finders, Myers Briggs all those are really awesome tests that tell you like, what you do. But Enneagram is like why you do what you do. It's like really that enlightening, insightful thing that is, it's not so easy to do with a quiz. It's definitely hard. It requires some subjective and some awareness in there. And I think that's really cool. Because I love my Strength Finders. In fact, everyone who knows this podcast knows that my husband and I like really, truly got together because we looked at each other, like top five, and there was a couple that overlap. And we're like, okay, you want to get out of here. It's really hilarious story. But it is interesting to me, I've always wondered, well, why do I want to be like that? Why is significant so important in the top five for me, like, because it's a little frustrating to have those a strength, and I think can go unless it's like, actually significant. So. So I think it's really important. I love that you're bringing it in that like that more feminine energy around all these things to make these next steps. What are you most excited about working on right now?

JJ Di Geronimo 22:02  

Oh, my goodness, well, I have been granted by the universe, this amazing retreat space on Lake Erie. So I started retreats in 2008. Because I just needed to get women out of conference rooms to start to like reconnect with Mother Nature, reconnect with themselves. So many women are sitting like on the sides of their body, because we're trying so hard to be successful in the corporate space. And when you think about it, a lot of times, we're asked to check half our knowing at the door. And so we show up with half our toolkit, but expected to deliver at 120%. And so we feel like this huge disconnect internally, and I saw it from city to city, whether it was in Kansas, or Texas, or you know, South Dakota or California, I keep seeing women that are just feeling like they're just missing out on their joy in life. So the reason I wrote Seeking is I wanted to share all the energy practices I was doing off the side of my desk. And with that I started a community together we seek and now I interview a lot of the energy practitioners that I work with, to share with women that this is not voodoo. This is not woowoo. This is just information. This is just processes and practices. And if it makes you feel better, and you get a better line with who you are as a person. So be it.

Lesley Logan 23:15  

Yeah, yeah, I am. I yesterday, I literally just talked to somebody I said, I said what you do people call, like at least a double Woo, if not a triple Woo. And like, like, what what do you say to that? Do you think this is like super woowoo? Or is this like scientific? And she's like, there's actually science behind all the energy work that I'm doing like Joe Dispenza has sown the science to it. And yes, it can seem woowoo. But what if we stopped thinking that woowoo was like this other weird thing for those people over there? What if we all just like, incorporated it? And it's really true. Like, what difference does it make if having like some sort of symbolic stone next to you helps you remember that you want to make money, if it helps you make more money?

JJ Di Geronimo 23:53  

When you think about it, and I'm just going to put it out there, but a lot of people that have trained us that it's woo are men. And I believe it's because women hold so much power, but we have been trained that we don't, and I feel like there's some kind of just synergistic, just some synergistic momentum that will occur when women start working with women in a way that we were told not to, but really isn't harmful. So I learned birth charts during COVID because it helps me so much you know, to learn when my son was which is the eighth house to learn how it impacts my work, when learned on my Chiron is and all these little bits of information basically gave validation to what I thought was weird about myself and now I celebrate it.

Lesley Logan 24:37  

Yeah, yeah, I I just was on if you haven't started listening to it, JJ, you gotta it's called The Mom and Me Astrology podcast. And so the mom, who I love, Mary, she's been doing this since the 70s. And then her daughter is psychologist and I was raised with two parents who do readings. You know, so she like has had anyway. And they did my birth chart for their Aquarius episode. And things about me that I was always like, so weird, like, do that I really wish I could like figure that out. They're like, so this is what makes you a disrupter. And this is what makes it like, Oh, it is a strength of mine. Thank you so much. And it just goes back to what you're saying so much of what we're told not to do, so that we can fit in or move up the strings or don't do these things, is actually the superpowers that if we just unleash them, then we actually would take all their jobs, and that's what they don't want us to do. So ladies...

JJ Di Geronimo 25:29  

Yeah, we're gonna show up differently, we're gonna have the confidence because that's what my birth chart did for me too. And that's why I learned because I've got to share with more women what their work is. And I've been doing it in circles with women, so especially friends, they like validate it with each other, I really focus on like, how does your birth chart help you understand your life's work? And I think for me, a lot of women have a lot more to give the world but they just need a little bit more self confidence, a little bit of direction, and a little bit more insight. And I think that these energy practices give a lot of those things. Yeah, so I'm super happy to share my process. You know, I ended up in a therapists office, I was so unhappy with so many accomplishments, because I was completely disconnected on the inside. And I feel like I am not alone.

Lesley Logan 26:12  

No, no, no, One of my besties is as a holistic doctor, and I was talking to her because as soon as I feel something's off, I'm like, Hey, girl, this is not working like that three days in a row of this is not normal. And I'm like, do you just get calls all the time. She's like, so many people wait till it's 30 years like you have, there's so disassociated from their body, you're like, you're not crazy, that thing is off here, some adrenal supplements and like, you know, get some more sleep and be kind to yourself, and it should be fine. But so many people are so disassociated, they don't even understand what's going on in their body. So they don't even know how long they felt that way. I also just want to go back to what you're saying insight, like, the birth chart, or even Enneagram. Yes, ladies, you could say all these things. But like, if you're struggling to take the first next step to build any amount of confidence, or any amount of self efficacy, having a little insight that you actually are born with these powers already in you might be the thing that you need, like I wouldn't run away from that.

JJ Di Geronimo 27:12  

Yes, and I'm sure the two of us could give plenty of recommendations. And that's what my community is together we seek it creates a safe space for women to check out different energy practices, and then reach out to the practitioners directly. They don't even need to call me. I have a network so that everybody can interconnect with one another. But it's really to take the mystique or sometimes there's negative connotations out of this work, because I do believe it is time for women to step up. And we have got to change the way we feel about ourselves and the things we say to ourselves and any way you can work on that you should be doing it.

Lesley Logan 27:45  

Yeah. JJ feel like we like just tap the surface. There's more we want to talk to you about but I really love that you're here, we're gonna take a brief break, and then find out where people can find you, follow you, read your books. // All right, JJ, where do you like to hang out? I heard LinkedIn. So it sounds like the place but what's all your handles? 

JJ Di Geronimo 28:03  

Yeah, so it's JJ Di Geronimo. You can search for any of my books, you can search Together We Seek Sata online. That's my community. That's where you'll find me live talking to a lot of different energy practitioners. And I think, you know, regardless where you are in your career, if you're having children for the first time, and you're trying to juggle it all, you know, the book, the working woman's GPS, or if you're in your career, do you want to get promoted or get on a board, accelerate your impact. Or have you been in your career for a long time, and you're just disconnected. You can visit Seeking, I really feel it's like the journey of the professional woman is captured in all three of my books. And I feel like it's been such a tool for books, clubs and women's events. So I'm honored to talk about it if you have any questions.

Lesley Logan 28:41  

Oh my gosh, thank you so much before I let you go, you've given us amazing advice. And obviously your books are full of all of them. But for the people who want to take some action right now bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

JJ Di Geronimo 28:53  

So you can download that essentially Power of No bundle and includes a chapter and includes a video and a worksheet and you can get that at jjdigeronimo.com. Forward slash power of no

Lesley Logan 29:06  

And that's the one that's going to help us know how to K N O W know how to say no. Yes, yes. Awesome.

JJ Di Geronimo 29:13  

URL, I'll send it to you but it's power of N O, and I named it like that because you know, once you start really being conscious of what you're saying yes to and no, you really do start feel more confident and get a little more power back.

Lesley Logan 29:26  

Yeah, you get it just one of those great ways of connecting back to yourself for sure. JJ, thank you so much for being here. Everyone, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know if you download that equation and how you're using it. Tag JJ, tag the Be It pod and until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.  I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.  

Brad Crowell 29:42  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 29:42  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 29:42  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 29:42  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this empowering episode, Lesley celebrates 'Fuck Yeah Friday' from the road, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging daily wins. Hear stories of growth and triumph from eLevate members and Lesley’s own journey of launching the West Coast tour, symbolizes the power of persistence.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

 Lesley Logan 0:02  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday. 

Brad Crowell 0:14  

Fuck yeah. rad

Lesley Logan 0:11  

Get ready for some wins.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, hey, hey, well, FYF from the road, FYF from the road. It's Fuck Yeah Friday. Hi, if you're new to the Be It pod, and you're wondering what the Fuck Yeah Friday is, it is about us celebrating wins and we celebrate your wins, you can send him into the Be It pod. We celebrate a win of mine. And we talk about it because it needs to become a normal thing that we celebrate wins, it needs to actually become just like, just like part of every single day, like 'how are you doing today' should be, like, 'What are you winning at today?' And not in a competitive way. But like, tell me something new and exciting about you, tell me something that you're proud of that you did today. Tell me, let's focus on the thing that did go pretty well, right? Because we can focus so much, like, oh my gosh, if you knew how much stuff was not going the way we expected, it was not going the way we planned and was getting delayed and the frustrations and then the fucking links that stopped working the way they were working one hour ago and people were using them and now they just stopped working, like, I would never run out of content. If I focus on if I told you guys all the things keeping us from the things we want to do in this in our business, in our life. But it's important. And I do this for myself too. Because if I am out practicing celebrating my wins and writing them down, then it makes me an angry person. And I'm not except very excited. And I want to quit my job that I created. So if you ever like I want to quit the job I created, it's probably because you're not celebrating. So let's start off with your wins. First up, also, because it's, I just wrapped up, eLevate round two, which is a win, I'll come to that in a second. I am making these wins just from some of our eLevate members. So first one is from eLevate round three. And that is Jennifer Day. So she said, I'm doing a lot of introspective work with how I learned through my Romana based program and Ramana train teachers to what we are starting to learn here and eLevate. There's a lot that I love from Ramana brought to Pilates and adapt and how she saw fit. However, I also love the bare bones of what Jay had just given us exercise and Joe is intended, with lots of fuss, letting the method correct the body. I'm truly enjoying the process and nerding out right now very thankful for this space and taking up space. Oh, I got chills. So just let me break that down for a second. This is not like one Pilates person is better than another. That's not what Jen is saying. It's not what I am saying. My teacher, Jay and Sandy and some other people who are amazing in my life really helped me understand the bare bones of what Joe Pilates gave us, and how much permission it gave us. And that is what I teach people on eLevate. And so it can be really confusing whether you come from a contemporary based background, or even a classical based background, like Jen has, to kind of like let go of all the rules. And really let the body show you what it needs and teach that body in front of them be that present. And she's just only finished the weekend to at the point that she wrote this and this is the win that she's having and that if you've ever been someone who's like trying to unlearn but also not get rid of those things that you love, but add in something new. Like it's a complicated process. And I love that she's celebrating at Washington midst of it. So thank you, Jen for sharing that. The next win is from Jane and Jane said that she and Sonia I have one from Sonia so we'll have that. We have our one from Sonya today. She said we had so much fun this week working through all the exercises on Wunda chair I think we've tried them all, some with success on some with a big laugh instead. When we weren't too sure if we were on the right track. We took a few minutes to share the screen and watch one of LL's tutorials together then back to the chair to give it another go. Today we tackle push ups as one of the exercises were so happy with ourselves we both managed without too much trouble so we decided check out the tutorial make sure we're doing it correctly, are both on the wrong spring setting. It was a bit like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. I start with one top and one bottom spring and I felt great. Surprisingly I can manage it all then after watching LL's tutorial I'm realizing the errors we had made in the three changes springs. I tried to win middle but we couldn't lift it or keep it up at all. Finally I tried one middle and one bottom and it worked not too easy and not too hard. Perfect for now. Jane, Oh my gosh girl. Thank you so much. I love how much you and Sonia play together and I love how kind you are with each other and your practice and also how kind you are to yourself that is the most and most most important thing. So now I'm going to get to one more eLevate win just because again like I'm just frickin I'm going to eLevate weekend and I'll and I'll share that win in a second. So Sonia said, loving our regular eLevate meetups working through exercise together in a workout and instead of being on your own and just going through it, we are working together, this gives us the opportunity mid exercise, say hey, is this how you do this? And other saying I do it like this or not sure, let's ask, I just love it. Not only are we all cementing the work into our bodies and our minds, but learning from each other and coming up with great discussions. I feel like this is what I missed in my first teacher training. And this is helping me to be better at what I do. You just can't put a price on that. I've worked on my own for so long. This is so refreshing. I love the camaraderie. Ah, Sonia that's so fun. Oh my goodness. Okay, so here's the deal. I'm on the road. And that's a win. But let me tell you the win from eLevate. So we wrap up eLevate round two, last week, and I did the third weekend of five with eLevate round three, and we are on tour. So again, a whirlwind. But we planned for it, we made room for it, we made balance and like we made a plan and did it, rock on. But the fact of the matter is, is like the fact that I had a round two and a round three at all is the win. And so when I share with people in round one, they made it so fun that I wanted to even attempt another when they are just spirit animals for me because it was something I was like, I'm gonna do this once. And if I love it, then we'll keep going. And if I don't love it, then those people were the only people got to experience it, that's fine. And I think that's important when we talk about trying all the time was trying it on. At any rate. I loved it. And then we did round two, and, and we kicked off round three, because round two sold out so much. And I didn't want people to wait a year. And to be honest, like, I love it, I could do this again. And again. I love watching the transformation. I love watching people let go of what's no longer serving them. And like add to what is. The whole program is also a challenge for me each time to make sure that I'm giving people space to process. And I can't make them do that. So I wanted to make this weekend, this week, a bunch of eLevate wins because I've just been spending so much time with my eLevators. And because I'm getting ready for round four, potentially round five, which is a win. So eLevators, you are my win this week, thank you so much for being the most amazing people and entrusting me with this journey of creating your own way of teaching Pilates, and it's amazing method that we have together. My other win is that we are on the road. And to be honest, I love being on the road, I was a little unsure of a West Coast tour, we've actually never done it before. At the time I'm recording this, so many of the classes are sold out or almost sold out. And I am just beyond humbled by the warmth and enjoy, and the joy and the welcome that I'm having from all these cities across the West Coast to come in and teach what I love, and teach the workshops I love and be in their studios and be in their space. And this Thank you. You know, like I know everyone's summers are so busy. I know, everyone's got a lot going on. And yet, so many studios came together, so many studio owners put in this effort. So many people sponsored and got involved in making this West Coast tour happen. And it's just beyond my wildest dreams what it could be. And to think that I almost like canceled the whole thing just because it was going to be hard. This was gonna be it's it's not going to be all roses, unicorns and butterflies, like we're driving 4000 miles over the course of three weeks with three dogs. And we have to be at certain places by certain times, and there better not be a traffic jam. And, you know, getting that many tickets sold in that many cities without having to be there, without having the connections there, like all of these things that are piling up. And I was just like, maybe we don't do it this year. Maybe we just don't. Maybe we don't do this scary new thing this year. And we did it. And that is a win. And I'm so grateful for my team. Shout out to Meridith and Brad and Jai. And just like everybody involved in making this tour happen because I can't do these things alone. And so this one, my win is their win. But I am so glad, there was a moment two or three months ago where we could have pulled it and I just felt in my gut that that was the wrong thing to do that we needed to do this thing and we needed to get started on a West Coast tour. We needed to do this tour thing differently. And I was so nervous that it wouldn't work out and it's working. It's working. You want to know why it's working. Not just because of the amazing team but because we actually just took one foot in front of the other, we just got started. Y'all take one step in front of the other, I promise you, wins are on the other side of each step. So what's your win? I want to hear it, share it with the Be It pod, tag us on Instagram, DM us, let us know what that win is so we can shout out for you. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.  I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 10:23  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 10:23  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 10:23  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 10:23  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 10:23  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

https://

Lesley and Brad recap a touching conversation with Kim Hamer, author of "100 Acts of Love" and seasoned guide in supporting those navigating through tough times. Drawing from Kim's personal journey of loss, they explore the genuine art of being there for others.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why is it not our place to point out others' silver linings?
• How to offer genuine support to those grieving.
• The importance of identifying and repeatedly offering your unique helping superpower.
• The importance of authentically expressing emotions during grief.
• How to offer heartfelt, empathy-driven support without making it all about you.

Episode References/Links:

• Krista St. Germaine episode
• Balanced Body
• Agency MINI
• Cambodia Tour
• eLevate Mentorship Program
• Kim Hamer's 100 Acts of Love

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Join us at our West Coast Summer Pop Up Tour - Aug. 8-20, 2023

Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

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Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

I remember when my grandfather died. We brought a Costco size container of toilet paper. And my mom's like, oh, no, I read like, you shouldn't just bring food because they people's fridges are not that big. And you're having a funeral, everyone is bringing food, or they're bringing flowers. I'm bringing toilet paper, because there's many more people in that house and normally are there. And like, she probably hasn't probably what is the size that she buys? Like a six pack? You know, for two people. So like, you bring a big thing about big thing and napkins and like, it sounds like yes, you look a little strange walking into a funeral with a big bag of toilet paper, but no one ran out.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained 1000s of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity. And it's the antidote to fear. Each week my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first can't Be It Till You See It. It's a practice not a perfect, let's get started. 

Lesley Logan 1:36  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the honest convo I had with Kim Hamer in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and then go back. Listen that one come back. Join this one. It's a good one. It's an honest one. It's an uncomfortable but like nothing uncomfortable. Like we're gonna make you uncomfortable. It's just that like

Brad Crowell 1:58  

It's very real. 

Lesley Logan 2:00  

Yeah. It's hard to think about like, no one's to think about that stuff.

Brad Crowell 2:03  

When we say that stuff. We're talking about death. 

Lesley Logan 2:05  

Yeah. So, anyways, it's a it's a bit different than if you listen to the Krista St. Germain death one that she's a she's actually a grief counselor, coach, or Kim Hamer actually works with grief in the workplace. So two different ways to think about grief and also like how we can work with people. So I think it's really cool. Anyways, before we get into that, today is it cycle to work day,

Brad Crowell 2:30  

it's August 3,

Lesley Logan 2:32  

it's August 3, which means we are three days from being on tour, which means the house is probably in a crazy hot mess trying to pack up a van to be away for, I don't know, I said three like two and a half weeks.

Brad Crowell 2:45  

Yeah, a little over two weeks. Well over two weeks, where we're doing an absolute bananas schedule, y'all. 

Lesley Logan 2:49  

You guys, at some point, I just think that they thought I was a robot because they're now at 14 cities.

Brad Crowell 2:55  

Yeah, we're at Redlands, Long Beach, Bakersfield, Handford which is basically Fresno, Modesto, Fairfield, Sacramento, Bend, Oregon, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, that's 10. Then Spokane, then Whitefish, Montana, Salt Lake City, Utah, St. George, Utah, 14, city where she's teaching multiple workshops and classes and, you know, like hanging out sessions, and all these different places where

Lesley Logan 3:28  

And if you're like, oh, my gosh, Lesley, you should come to this city. It's on the way. I love you so much. 

Brad Crowell 3:32  

Would love to do that next time.

Lesley Logan 3:33  

Next time, we have planned this thanks. We have a headliner. Were with Balanced Body, they are helping us make this happen. Yeah. 

Brad Crowell 3:43  

So they're sponsoring the tour. And we're so grateful for it. And for those of you who are going to be joining us at those, those live experiences, you'll be, you know, seeing some new BB gear with their Contrology stuff, and you'll be getting some, some goodies from them and everything. It's gonna be really fun. So we're super grateful.

Lesley Logan 4:05  

I'm so grateful also, because like, it's helpful. We could not do 14 cities without their help. That would have not even been able to happen. It would have been seven.

Brad Crowell 4:13  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, also, you know, we don't have that much space in the van. So they're gonna be shipping things to different places and all this stuff. It's gonna be it's like full support. So we're (...)

Lesley Logan 4:25  

That's so crazy. So cool. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, thank you Balanced Body. So go to opc.me/tour to grab your tickets. If you know someone who lives in those areas. Or even you know, a short drive away 

Brad Crowell 4:38  

Yeah even if it's an hour to drive, come meet us. We'd love to meet them, you...

Lesley Logan 4:42  

Also meet the community that amazing people who are already coming to the classes are probably driving as well and like you can meet more people who are interested in things like you are. So it's super fun. We're way in community and we're really excited about it. After that I get home for like, seven days and then I'm off to Poland for four days. Yeah, and then I come back and it's Agency MINI time that seven days of coaching and actually at this moment if you're not yet on the waitlist you can get on the waitlist and get a special opportunity to get a special price and join the group a month early and do some weekly homework to get to make the most out of it. So go to profitablepilates.com/mini Get on that waitlist. (...). And then you'll be given the opportunity to join a month early. So if you know you're gonna want to do it might as well get on the waitlist, you can have the opportunity.

Brad Crowell 5:34  

Yeah, we're gonna give you a little bit of prep. Before mini starts, you can start thinking through a few things. So when the week of mini happens, you've already kind of done some homework. Some pre thinking is going to make everything a lot make a lot more sense for you and flow a little easier. So profitablepilates.com/mini

Lesley Logan 5:51  

And then October we're going to be in Cambodia. 

Brad Crowell 5:56  

Oh my God,we are so excited. Oh, I just got like a welling of emotion here. I'm so excited about this.

Lesley Logan 6:03  

I was just talking to Brad, So the day before yesterday, before recording this. So not August 2, but the time recording this. I was in Santa Barbara and Brad's like (...) And yes, ladies, you don't want to wear your leggings at the temples because a, yes, they do wick sweat away. But good luck peeling them off and put him back on in. Oh, when you have to go to the bathroom, you definitely want to be in a beautiful dress. The tourists that I would see from all these different Asian countries would be like wearing these beautiful dresses and heels. And I don't know how they're walking into these temples in their heels. But I can tell you this, I don't wear heels. I wear tennis shoes, but I wear a dress. And I always wear a bright color because your pictures will be even more amazing. They're so fun. Yeah. So lesleylogan.co/retreat...(Brad: Yeah, come join us. There's still room.) And then I'm gonna go rogue a little bit because we haven't updated November but I have to tell you this, I am really close to allowing applications for eLevate to happen...(Brad: Oh, right.) And so that is we open up the doors to applications to people on the waitlist first. We can only take 12 people in a group. So you want to go to lesleylogan.co/elevate to be on that waitlist. And we will be doing a little bit announcement call q&a call thing I'm sure soon and applications will be open.

Why don't you just briefly share what eLevate is? 

Oh, that's a great thing, huh? Don't you read my mind not to know the secret this secret thing I've been doing that we rarely ever publicize. So if you listen to FYF, you might have heard about elevate wins because I do share their wins a lot. So eLevate is a mentorship program for people who are already comprehensively trained, meaning you've been trained on the Reformer, Mat, Tower, Cadillac and Wunda chair, anything else you've been trained on is a bonus. If you haven't, don't worry about it. You don't have to own this piece of equipment, you have to have access to those pieces of equipment... (Brad: But what's the point of it?) So what I have found is that way too many teachers have impostor syndrome around teaching, they're more focused on being perfect, and with themselves with their clients. And so the point of eLevate is actually teach you how Joe Supplies taught my teacher, and how he taught. So how my teacher taught the people that he's been around for decades. And so what I'm actually helping you do is like, get rid of all this like rules and mumbo jumbo and like get really back into the intentions of the exercise and have a lot of fun with it. And it's crazy, you will eLevate in more ways than one I always say you're gonna elevate your connection to the method. You're teaching and your personal practice. But in every group somebody elevates and how they learn how to work with other people, how they learn how to work with their clients, how they learn how (...), how they treat themselves. Yeah, it's a journey. It's nine it's about nine months. Yeah, from start to finish, give or take to the calendar. But like, it is really fun. And we never

Brad Crowell 8:58  

Afterwards they get a certificate from us. 

Lesley Logan 9:00  

Yes, you can get CCS from all each of the weekends. We have them separated out so that you can like you know, use them how you need to. And while it is virtual, we do let people if you want to visit Vegas, you can come and be in person for some of the stuff. And so my eLevate people get a lot more access to me, more than anybody else when it comes to the Pilates method and nerding out OPC would be the next, the next but do you get questions on exercises in your practice not versed like how to teach it. So eLevate's the place you want to be if you're really wanting to have amazing community and what's so cool is we're about to wrap up round two, round one can't wait to meet them. Round three will wrap up in September. And then all of them will be in the in the alumni group together. And I already announced the alumni retreat and people are like oh my god, I'm just really excited. 

Brad Crowell 9:52  

Well, I had a win that we could briefly say, one of our eLevate alumni Rail said I was doing chest expansion on the reforming yesterday. And in particular, it was focused on my fast connection, the carriage just seemed to float forward. And dare I say it felt easy. And now it's finally clicked. What so many who have taught me we're looking for with ground, grounding my knees and pulling my thighs towards each other. So just like even after the program has finished, Rael went through eLevate round one that was like a year and a half ago now. And that win was from a week and a half ago. So you know, it's like continuous focus and wins and (...)

Lesley Logan 10:32  

Round one is still having a massive party. Like they still teach each other, they still do, like their partners still meet up. It's like kind of crazy. So I love what we're creating. If you are wanting to feel like you have a family, if you want to feel like you have a safe place to ask the questions that you really are bringing you want to feel you have a place where you'd be perfect. That's what eLevate is.

Brad Crowell 10:50  

Yeah. So go to lesleylogan.co/elevate. And get yourself on the wait list again. That's free.

Lesley Logan 10:56  

All right, so let's get into it. Yeah, an audience question now.

Brad Crowell 10:59  

Yeah, love it. Okay, cool. So Amanda, thanks so much for writing in. Said, Hey, I would love to know, your recording prep strategy. I know classical has an order. But every time I write notes for classes, I go rogue, it always seems to work out. But then I'm like, dang. Dang it. I wanted to do X, and she kind of forgot what she had prepped. So she's clearly talking about Amanda's Chloe's talking about filming classes that must go on some website somewhere.

Lesley Logan 11:28  

Yeah. So anytime you're filming anything. So somebody if you're about to skip through, occasionally, I'll film anything. Anytime you're about to prepare anything, as far as someone else to consume a speech, whether you're working to do a presentation or anything like that, this is going to help, I promise you can find yourself in the story. So first of all, I would like to just tell you, I go rogue all the time.

Brad Crowell 11:49  

In fact, you just went rogue when you were filming for PA 

Lesley Logan 11:52  

Oh, they literally they're like, Hey, you want to do this? And I was like, yep, well, I'm doing it this Oh, I said I also skipped six exercise, right the beginning. Here's the deal. Like when I want you to know this, when you recognize you've gone rogue. If you are in a position to like stop, pause and potentially go back. Ask yourself if you want to, like does it really make a difference? So I decided in the moment like I was failing for pausing time, I decided in the moment too, we changed the beginning, which is why that I think that happened. Like I decided to add something in the beginning. And then I got so obsessed with while that felt, I just skipped six exercises of rowing. And I realized it too late to go back there was like we were like, now we're like 10 more exercise and like it would just have been a disaster. And I'm not someone who can like pick up where I left off. So I just decided I was going to actually add to the rowing exercise in a kneeling exercise where they could be done. And just let it go. Because the reality is, is that those exercises were not put in there to make the point I was trying to make. They were part of the point I was trying to make. But I still had the rest of the exercise that I could call upon. Yeah. And so I gave myself permission like I need, you need to know this. Sometimes what ends up happening is exactly what's supposed to happen. Because when you're in your head about how you want a presentation to be, how you want a class to be, how you want anything to be, you,re like, this is going to make the most sense, but then you actually are doing it. And if you're giving a presentation or a speech, you are seeing feedback in real time, you're seeing if things are making sense or not making sense. So you have to have the ability to go rogue, or like I would say, Be present enough to make gametime decisions like a quarterback would make a decision. Like yeah, you call from the throw it but like I don't have a room. So I gotta go here. That's not the quarterback going against the coach. It's like what what is available to me? What can I do right now?

Brad Crowell 13:54  

I think that the gametime decision and actually like being aware of you're almost producing the show while you're doing the filming. And that I would say is like advanced. Yeah. You know, for example, when you're doing the interviews with the guests here on the pod.

Lesley Logan 14:12  

Yeah, I used one rep so much now I don't at all.

Brad Crowell 14:16  

But one thing that I'm continuously impressed by is your understanding of the emotion of the episode to the point of when you decide all right, it's time for a commercial break. Yeah, right, where you're actually aware enough in the moment to be like, did we get what we needed to make this a really cool episode and is like, did we make our point that we conclude the thought, Okay, now is probably the appropriate time for break. It's the same way when you're filming a workout if you are like, wow, this this feeling that we just had in our body. I don't even need this next thing. Now that I would say takes just simply experience and time and consistency of doing it. So until you get to that point. We have a cheat sheet that you can use. (...) Get yourself a big ass board, okay? And write your main, your major bullet points of whatever the flow of the class is and put it behind the camera so that you can still look at the camera. But you can also glance off to the, to the top or the side. And you can quickly see the next thing that's on your list. Like, for example, when I was when I flew to Israel to speak to the entire company at monday.com for a presentation that I was making to them, I am not a professional presentation speaker on stage kind of person doing talking points. And so my coach, I literally had a coach, and he said, No, no worries, man, this is going to be just fine. We're going to take big eight and a half by 11 pieces of paper. And we're going to take 10 of them. And we're going to write down in big ass capital letters, your main bullet points of what your 15 minute speaking is going to be about. And we're just gonna lay them across the front of the stage, the audience can't see it, they're flat, but you as the presenter can easily glance down and see your next bullet points so that you don't get tripped up and you're not worried about it. I was like, Oh, that's a genius tactic. So that worked really well.

Lesley Logan 16:11  

The other thing I want to say, yes, some of it just comes with preparation. I mean, I can't even tell you how many classes I filmed at this point between Pilates anytime, YouTube OPC. I mean, OPC was like, literally it's two a week, times five years. So there's that, you know, like...

Brad Crowell 16:26  

Plus, I mean, we have more than 1000 videos on YouTube. So yeah.

Lesley Logan 16:30  

So just like take all this, like, the other thing is like, one, take your like take. I listen to a lot of podcasts that I can get better at understanding like how like, how do I wrap a conversation up? How do I like what are some questions that are like, I can have in my back pocket? If I'm like, I'm not getting the point I want like, what's a question I can ask that I could ask anyone. So I'm not like having to research this person's life story. Yeah. Because that makes me less present. Right? Then the other, the last point I want to make on this is this. You need to be very clear on who you're talking to. So your audience. Yes, every any thing you see that I have filmed. For sure. I have thought of a person. So if an OPC member wants to have a class where they need they need help on rowing. I'm picturing that OPC member. I'm not picturing all of OPC I'm picturing that member. When I'm teaching tree on the reformer. I know Rachel loves it. So I teach it because I know she loves it. I'm thinking about that, right? Like when I film for Pilates anytime there was a tutorial coming out about impostor syndrome. It's for newer teachers or people who are like a little lost on their journey. I literally picked a woman that I like, like I've recently spoken to where I was like, this would be I wish I had this to send to that person. So I pictured where they're coming from, who, like, all the things I'm like, if you don't have a specific real human, then make one up. But like make them up real. Like, what got, why are they coming to that class? Why are they coming to this presentation? 

Brad Crowell 18:05  

What are their goals? How are you actually helping them with this?

Lesley Logan 18:09  

Yeah, where are they? What's their movement experience, if it's a class, right, like, so if I am teaching a beginner, so I'm just teaching beginner exercises, I'm actually taking it to a point where a beginner doesn't know a transition. So I'm actually like having to like, so you have to be very clear on who it's for that is going to take time. It's going to take some experience. And then you have to be kind yourself if you be if you went rogue, like just ask yourself, like do the changes you make just take away from the goal you had? If they did, okay, you filmed it, go back, add things in and like, that's what this iMovie is for guys like. It's like do a little fade. Fade, right? But like, I think that really helps. And then like knowing that, like, it's not supposed to be perfect, and people are going to get something out of it. They really, really will. You know? I'll also say this. Speaking of going this, and I'm going rogue when I was filming this Express mat class, my first roll up, my legs came off the ground, like in a teaser, like I like just went and I was just like, Well, okay, that's the first one. We'll keep going. And I was like, if your lace came up like mine, here's what we're gonna do. And I like told people what I was gonna do. So like, if you do want, if you do if you can't, if it's a live thing, and you need to like, edit in real time. Just be transparent. Yeah. Wow, I didn't expect that. Let's go back and do this. I really want you to experience the side of it. People are cool with it, but go on the journey. Yeah, thanks for the question. 

Brad Crowell 19:33  

Also makes you feel real because you know, then they're like, Oh, she's not perfect, either.

No. So I'm so excited for people to see I want to see how many people see my legs come up I can make. Anyways thank you for the question. If you want to answer a question for us. You just need to send it to the Be It pod.

Yeah. Okay, now let's talk about Kim Hamer. Kim is a compassionate entrepreneur, and author of the book 100 Acts of Love. Her own experience and empathy have led her to advocate for more effective ways to offer support to others during challenging times of grief.

Lesley Logan 20:37  

Yeah, right. You're gonna actually have her in Agency.

Brad Crowell 20:40  

Oh, that's so great. I can't wait. Yeah. And also, I really am excited. I want to actually get her book and see her book. Because she, she talked, she didn't say these words. But she's talked about, like, how chapters bury the lead where like, you know, it's this whole, like, five pages to get to the fucking point of the thing. And she said, she cut all that out. It's just like bullet points and action items all throughout this book, 100 Acts of Love. And she wanted to make a coffee table book where you could flip to any page, and it would have some practical advice right there. And I thought that that's pretty cool.

Lesley Logan 21:13  

What a great gift we can give people. Yeah, I think that's fun. That's what we're doing. Okay. Well, here's the thing. I this, I really love this whole thing. She was like, I love that she said, finding silver linings. Now, there's a caveat to this. She said that what makes life amazing is that there we have the ability to find the silver linings. However, it is not. For those of us who are friends of people going through the grief. It is not our job to point out the griever's silver lining. So find silver linings in your own life. But let's not find silver linings for the people going through the grief. Like oh, well they you know, like, like, they had a great life while they're here. It's like, No, you don't say that. You don't get to say that. You know, and this just happened. One of our friends. Their cat died. And it was right after like, they like some stray dog and up in their backyard. They save this dog. They get this dog to the right foster group all these things. And then the person who had helped with the dog called up and said, Hey, your cat is someone hate your cat. And like I found myself trying not to even bring up a silver lining. Like because there's this like innate thing like okay, want to cut through the this pain. That's it real state right now. And all I did was like, I'm just going to hug you right now. That really sucks. Yeah, really sucks. I'm so sorry that that happened honestly. Like, I just hat's a terrible day. Like you helped them help the dog and you lost a cat. Like, that's awful. So let me just hug you right now. She can find her own silver linings. If there are any. It's not my job. However, I can find silver linings in my own life. And she mentioned (...)

Brad Crowell 22:59  

Well, I think I think that like the natural inclination is to come up with a reason, an excuse or justification, excuse is the wrong word. But just (...) You know, we I feel like the closing the loop. It's the open loop, closed loop thing here. Yeah. And it's for you as the friend feeling the need to have a closed loop for you. And that's where this becomes selfish, right? Your job is not to close their loop. No, you can't do it. All you can do is support them in the experience that they're having. And when we come to the table and say, Oh, well, you know, this just must be, you know, the will of God or something like that. Like, that's the one that comes to me the most obvious because when I grew up in the church, and that's what everyone said, Oh, this is preordained, or this is like, control or any of those things that was never satisfying. It always actually made me angry. And also, you know, it's like, it actually just makes the person who I was talking to feel like, Oh, well, you know, I don't need to worry about this, because it's out of, it's controlled by somebody else or whatever. And so they were saying it for fucking them, not for me, right. And so we may inadvertently be doing exactly the same thing, when we're trying to help someone come up with a reason for why it happened. And really, you don't need to do it. In fact, it doesn't support them at all to doing that.

Lesley Logan 24:16  

But if you are the one who is going through the grief or the loss, or both, which is both, you can find your own silver lining at some point. So she had wanted to speak at an event and she applied and she got accepted. And so she asked her son to give her feedback on her speech. And this is after her husband passed away. And, she, it was like really fun because she got feedback from him and she was able to say like, you know, thank you for this. Your your dad would have been really proud of you. If he was still here. And then she realized if her husband was alive, she might not have even asked her son for support. So the bond she's having with her kids is at a different level because of their shared loss. And she said, like, if my husband had been around, like (...)

Brad Crowell 25:08  

I'd probably ask him and I never would have ask my son. 

Lesley Logan 25:12  

And you know, I think that that's really special. I think it's really special. So, you know, finding (...)

Brad Crowell 25:18  

Here's another thing I want to say about that. That didn't happen for years. Until after her husband passed away. So her, you know, finding something good in it was way after the fact. And that's okay.

Lesley Logan 25:34  

Yeah, I think that's okay. We actually had somebody like, after Krista's episode dropped, we're talking about like, the heart actually breaks like the art. That's like an actual feeling the heart has, and somebody like wrote in, you know, like, I couldn't, I didn't think I'd make it past year one. I can't believe I'm at year five. Like, it's okay for it to take a long time. I don't think that we're you know, you don't have to have a timeline. So anyways, you don't have to find the silver lining right away. But I just love that she tells people who are going through this to find their own, or she's telling us, if we're going through this divine (...) maybe it's not telling other people. So anyways, I love that. What did you love?

Brad Crowell 26:13  

Yeah, so basically, the, like getting into her story where tragedy happens. And then her friends around her, were trying to help, but they don't really know how to help. And she had this really interesting experience where her kids were like, Hey, mom, so cool that everyone keeps dropping off food. But do you think they could drop off something other than lasagna? Because we're done with the lasagna? Because the, you know, same, same same situation, right? Like, that's what, in the church that I grew up in, whenever there was something that happened, everyone would make food. And that is a great thing. I'm not saying don't do that. But there's way more than just food that people need. And, you know, and I thought that was really, I never actually really thought about like that. She said, You know what I needed? I needed toiletries in my bathroom. Because you know, when my young child was, at three in the morning, puking over the toilet, I ran out a paper towels or whatever, you know, that was the moment that I realized, I need fucking help. And it's 3am. And I can't call someone or whatever. So I just thought that was really interesting, because ultimately, it came down to similarly, when you're trying to support someone you don't know how to, what do we offer? we say, Hey, I'm here to help you in anything that you need. You just let me know. Right? And I was like, Well, of course, I've said that. I mean, I'm here for you. I actually genuinely meant that. But you know, that, but the problem is that a couple of things. She said, there are four reasons why you should not say, If you need anything, just let me know. And this is so well thought through. So I'm just going to actually read them. She said it fails to connect with the person. And that phrase does not acknowledge their pain. Hey, if you need anything, just let me know. So that's kind of like you're not actually acknowledging (...)

Lesley Logan 28:21  

No, we said it to our teammates who are not going through grief but like, if you need anything call us, you know, like just on a project. So it's not acknowledging grief of any kind.

Brad Crowell 28:30  

Yeah, so to the term anything, like if you need anything, let me know. It's too vague. And it's too overwhelming. It's actually too grandiose, it's too large. At the moment, they're like, Okay, anything anything, but they can't, they're not thinking straight. So they can't like say, I need this one specific minor detail, you know, and so when that when it comes down to it, unless they're your bestie, the chances are unlikely that they're going to be like, Oh, I do need to help with something. But when they realize it two weeks later, they're probably not going to reach back out to you. Right? She said, It's too big for anybody to get their head around. It's just too much. So instead of if you need anything, let me know what if instead, you said, you know, if you need help with dropping the kids off at school, or if you need help with, you know, getting gas for your car, or if you need help with, you know, and we'll talk a little bit more about this later. But the word anything is just way too vague. Three, you put a lot you're actually taking inadvertently, most likely, but you're actually putting the pressure back on them. Right? Because you're now saying to them, you have to come up with the thing that I can help you with, right? and then and that's awkward for them. Maybe it's like, you know, again, they can't think of it in the moment when they do think of it it's too late for them reach out to you.

Lesley Logan 28:30  

Yeah, I just think like there are some simple things just drop off some Visa gift cards y'all like they can just ...(Brad: cash totally I mean) like also, I will never forget I remember when my grandfather died. We brought a Costco size container of toilet paper. And my mom's like, oh, no, I read like, you shouldn't just bring food because they people's fridges are not that big. And you're having a funeral, everyone is bringing food, or they're bringing flowers. I'm bringing toilet paper, because there's many more people in that house and normally are there. And like, she probably hasn't probably what is the size that she buys? Like a six pack? You know, for two people. So like, you bring a big thing about big thing and napkins and like, it sounds like yes, you look a little strange walking into a funeral with a big bag of toilet paper, but no one ran out.

Brad Crowell 30:32  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's totally. So you know, the, when you're saying, you're actually putting the pressure back on them. And, you know, that's kind of awkward. But if you were specific, you know, then it doesn't, you're not putting the pressure back on them. Or you can say to them, Hey, if you can't think of anything right now, I will check back in with you in a week. Right? And then we can have that conversation, when you know what, you know, at a different time, that's better for you. And number four, she said people are generally reluctant to ask for help, you know, even if you've offered, and this, when you say, Hey, let me know, if you need anything, you're actually adding an additional burden on them who they're in an extremely vulnerable state right now. Unless they're your bestie. Like I said, they're probably never going to reach back out. So yeah, you know, it's, I didn't realize that one, you know, phrase that we probably think is actually helping is absolutely not helping.

Lesley Logan 31:32  

No, in fact, I sorry, because I interviewed her a while back. And you know, our friends were going through, like some travel stuff and like, somewhat like they are having trouble. And I said, Do you need any help with the dogs? Right? I can come by we can come it help with the dogs? And she said, No, I don't think so. I said, you're overwhelmed right now. I'm gonna text you tomorrow. And just make sure that you don't need any help with the dogs. And I did. I said, Hey, just double checking. Do you need help with the dogs? And because it was specific enough, she and like, I knew I could handle, I knew I could take that on. Like, that's also a very important thing. 

Brad Crowell 32:08  

Yeah. Like, it doesn't put you in overwhelm, right? 

Lesley Logan 32:11  

Because then then you're no good to anybody. And we'll talk about more about that in a bit catching up. So it's like, maybe take a moment and just ask yourself, ask yourself right now, what could I help out with? What are some things that I could actually help people do? Like, what would that be? And then also, maybe think about, if I was going through something, what would I really need to make sure was happening? Like, you know, like, and then just make that list? So that either way, you're like, kind of ready to go and you feel very prepared? I don't know. That's what I would do. I was just thinking like, someone needs to make sure they can call the dog poop guy. 

Brad Crowell 32:47  

Yeah, prepared for catastrophe. All right. Finally, let's talk about those Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo with Kim Hamer? I'm gonna hop in here. So she said, actually think if you're the friend of someone who you know, may be going through catastrophe. Think about what specific offering you could give to them.

Lesley Logan 33:20  

Oh, I just got got really excited I just gave (...)

Brad Crowell 33:24  

Well, you did it from the perspective of I'm, I may go through catastrophe. What I could need help with? Yeah, this is the reverse. This is the friend. You're the friend of the person who's going through the catastrophe. Why not think about it now ahead of time? What is your giving superpower? What is the one amazing thing that you know, without a shadow of a doubt that they you could help with and be, you know, and do it enjoy and all the things and you know, I thought it was really interesting. She said that her superpower is cleaning kitchens. She's like, hey, you know what, I would love to come over to your place and give me four hours, I'm going to tear your kitchen apart and clean the whole damn thing and set you up. Right? Oh, that's crazy. That would be an amazing way to support someone in you know, a moment when they probably can't even think about it. You know? And also what happens when you're in grief. If you've ever gone through a really dark part of your life. Guess what you don't do? You don't do the fucking dishes. You don't, just don't do them. Right? You probably start buying paper plates, you can just throw things out or you just leave it in the sink. I mean, I've been there, you know. So that is like an incredible offer. And they may feel embarrassed, but you're there to support like get them you know, back to a place where at least they're back to zero in the kitchen or you know, back to level in the kitchen so that what can you do for them? Maybe you are a mechanic. Maybe you are a dog walker, maybe you are, you've got kids yourself and you can you know take them to the park or something, I don't know. But what is your superpower that you could offer to help them out in a moment of need? And that's something thing that what if you think about this ahead of time, guess what you're not saying, hey, what can I, can I do anything for you? No, now you're saying, Hey, can I, you know, like, can I put a stamp on your mail for the next month? So you don't have to deal with it. Can I, I don't know, whatever it is that you can do.

Lesley Logan 35:16  

 I love that. I think it's a great one. 

Brad Crowell 35:17  

Yeah, I also think I said it already. But, you know, offering more than once is really important. Because, you know, I feel like again, as the as the friend of someone going through it, it's really easy for us to say well, I offered, so yeah, and then you can like brush your hands off.

Lesley Logan 35:34  

Yeah, it kind of goes into we'll talk about a little bit it might be an action item, so she talked a few things that I want to address, because I think this is a really good Be It stuff. So if you're going through grief, feeling your feelings, she said, get those feelings out of your head, she wants you to have a good cry, be pissed, write it down. But really, most importantly, whatever you're feeling, let that, let all that out. Because it's, if you suppress those emotions, if you just try to like cattle have it all together, it can unintentionally affect you at work, can affect your family, can affect everything. And, like, as people are expect, if you go through a loss, people expect you that it's okay. And also like from Krista's thing, like, we all handle the grief differently. So some people might be delayed. So if you aren't crying right away, like, there's nothing wrong with you. But like when you do have those feelings, go ahead and feel them. And then we talked about, for those who are the friends, it's not about you...(Brad: it's not about you) said put yourself in their shoes. I think that will also help with like, knowing what to say, or knowing what to offer is putting yourself in their shoes, like what would you need, if you're in that situation? Allow yourself to feel emotions for them and what they're going through. She said, The person you're trying to help will feel if the emotions, she'll feel it. And they may be completely unable to articulate what they're feeling and that you're going to feel them. And so if you are trying to suppress things, trying to be like fine, everything's fine, I'm fine. I'm fine. So that you can be fine.

Brad Crowell 42:02  

Yeah, if you're pretending that everything's normal, it's not normal. And actually, one thing that I found really, really interesting was when you you actually said this to her, you know, when people they don't want to share a win with me, because I experienced grief. I'm experiencing grief. And my friend decided not to share that they were engaged. And they thought, well, I don't want to, like I don't want to make them feel bad, that I'm having success in my life or a win in my life or something joyous when they're feeling like shit right now. And for the person going through the grief, you know, yeah, I guess it could come across though. If you're, if you're rubbing it in their face, then don't be an asshole. But they also want to know that life is still going on that they're, you know, it can make you don't want to be caught out of the loop. It makes them feel more isolated.

Lesley Logan 42:51  

Exactly. Yep. And then she said, if they don't call you, it's not because they're mad at you. Right? It's understand that the person doesn't reach is not a reflection of your actions. They have so many bigger things to deal with. So just empathize with their situation and prioritize their needs over personal concerns. And she said, send them a lot of love. Yeah, sent them a lot of love. And I think we don't want (...)

Brad Crowell 43:12  

Even just a message of like, Hey, I was just thinking about you. I love you.

Lesley Logan 43:16  

Yeah. And not and not expecting anything back in return. So anyways, I know, we did two episodes on grief, you guys. She actually does grief in the workplace talks because, like she was at, she noticed how to her work. Like, no one really knew how to handle it. And like, there's people like all the time, like, you know, I remember like, one of our friends. They were supposed to go on maternity and paternity leave and they lost the baby. Right? And like, the workplace wasn't really able to work. They didn't just didn't know what to do.

Brad Crowell 43:49  

Oh yeah, my co worker died. He was like, my, I reported to him. And then all sudden, like, he wasn't, he was gone. And and like, you know, I think, I think my office like they came through and we're like, hey, you know, we're gonna have like a, we're gonna have a moment as a team, you know, for Steven was his name. And but it still didn't like, that was a good first start. I'm glad that happened. But then after that, it was as if he was never there. And that was weird as fuck.

Lesley Logan 44:20  

Yeah, that's really weird. And I think people don't really know, and it's like gets work. But does that mean that like, you'd have relationship with this person. So it's like, it's just so I think it's really great. That's why she's coming in Agency to talk with us because like, I always remember like, oh my god, what if my 9am clients are dead? Like, yeah, you know, like, that's not, that's like a whole different way of losing a client. So at any rate, you guys, I hope that this really helps you Be It Till You See It when it comes to these like, not so fun, exciting things to talk about in our lives that will happen. So I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 44:52  

and I'm Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 44:52  

Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you going to use these tips in your life? We want to know. So tag Kim Hamer, tag the Be It pod and until next time. Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 45:01  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 45:08  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day.

Be It Till You See It is a production of the Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 45:39  

It's written, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 45:44  

It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 45:48  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi

Lesley Logan 45:55  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for greater visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 46:00  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content for our website, and finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all onpoint and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brace yourself for this heartening conversation between Lesley and Kim Hamer as they unpack the nuances of cancer, loss, and empathy. The episode spotlights the transformative power of little acts of kindness in lifting our loved ones, the critical need for a supportive work culture, and the journey towards uncovering our own silver linings. This engaging dialogue is a resourceful guide, infusing strength and hope into the lives of individuals and communities coping with such challenging situations.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The profound toll of cancer on individuals and their relationships.
• How your superpower can make a powerful impact for loved ones facing cancer or death.
• Creating a compassionate workplace environment for employees navigating loss.
• How Kim’s book highlights the importance of genuine empathy and simple gestures.
• How Kim became a consultant in grief management. 
• Letting others find their own silver linings.

Episode References/Links:

• 100 Acts of Love Website
• Get Kim's 100 Acts of Love book here
• Follow Kim Instagram
• Follow Kim on LinkedIn
• Download Five Phrases Never to Say to Anyone with Cancer and What to Say Instead! https://www.100actsoflove.com/whatnottosay

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Kim Hamer 0:05  

I'm going to talk about a silver lining that I got from my husband's death. I want to make it really clear to everybody that it is not your job to point out other persons silver lining. So many people were like, well, you know, you have so much going for you like they were trying to put silver linings around. One of my friends said, Kim, you know, don't worry, you're young, you're beautiful, you can get married again. And I was like, Oh, well, then I don't need to be so sad. Because you can replace my husband.

Lesley Logan 0:05  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It babe. So today's guest on the topic is going to be something that makes you pretty uncomfortable. And I'm hoping to make some of these topics more comfortable. Because we kind of get over it, y'all, we got to start talking about grief, we got to start understanding how to help each other. And today's guest not only shares her story about how she lost her husband, but also what she's doing today to make workplaces a better place when it comes to grief. And, and I, I truly hope that you take some time to listen to this. I know you might be thinking, oh my gosh, Lesley, it's Tuesday. And I want like, all the happiness in the world. But today's guest is actually you know, what she's doing is she wrote a book called 100 Acts of Love. So it's actually quite a positive talk around a subject that we all want to avoid. And she's actually going to tell you the exact things not to say. So I promise you, you're gonna want to stick around because I know all of us don't want to say the wrong thing. We only want to do the things that can be helpful, and you're gonna get a lot of helpful tips. And also, you know, someday we're all going to be in a place where we are in grief. There's different kinds of grief, of course, but we're humans, we're going to lose each other in our lives. And so being able to hear other people's stories, I think is really important to understanding how, how every, how you're feeling is normal. And I know when you listen to this, that it's easy to put a lot of pressure on yourself to like, get it together and and be okay. And what I hope you hear from this is that it's okay not to be okay. So Kim Hamer is our guest today. She's beautiful, inside and out. And this is one of my most favorite interviews to do. So thank you, Kim, and thank you for being here to listen to this. And I can't wait to hear what your takeaways are.

All right, Be It babe. I'm so excited to have you back with us today listening in because our guest today honestly, like, I'm so glad this woman came across my like my feed and thing of people I should interview because I definitely the topic we're talking about today. I definitely feel like I've been the person who fucked up and didn't do the thing and didn't say the thing and didn't help out. And everyone's like what and Kim's laughing. So Kim Hamer is our guest today. And she is an incredible person who is helping people actually do 100 Acts of Love and actually give steps and it's because she went through something traumatic and people weren't able to help out and then she saw herself in that so I'ma let her tell her own story. So Kim will you tell everyone who you are, and what brought you here today?

Kim Hamer 2:50  

Sure. So what brought me here today is my husband's death at the age of 44. He was six foot six tall about 230. So you know, good size man, not a skinny six foot six. And very healthy. We were like the typical LA couple, you know, like working out together and trying to make our way in the world with our three kids, making sure that they're good students, eating organic food, you know, exercising. And, and that didn't help. He was diagnosed with cancer. It was very surprising for both of us, I can't imagine someone says when they get diagnosed with cancer, Oh, yeah, I thought that was gonna happen. It's always surprising.

Lesley Logan 3:36  

But also, like, when someone is 60 Plus, you're like, Well, you know, It's a numbers game, right? Like, that sounds terrible. But like, 40, you don't go back to be diagnosed with something like that.

Kim Hamer 3:49  

This is very true. And it was really surprising to us. And what I learned in that first part of the journey, you know, that day that we found out it was literally like a mother's, you know, Hallmark movies that, you know, my husband had been having trouble breathing. And for some reason, when he said, I'm gonna call the doctor, I said to him, I want to come with you. And he right on the heels of that. He said, I want you to come with me like we knew something wasn't right. And I don't want to go into details of what the symptoms were because nobody needs, no one needs to be going oh my god, I can't breathe. I might have cancer. (...) Exactly. But we were sitting in the doctor's office and we had had he already had had an x ray and an exam and the doctor came in and we're sitting at the exam table on one side of the exam table. The doctor came in and wove his hands together and put them on the exam table and said to my husband, I think you have cancer. And the only reason he couldn't confirm it is because it was inside and we needed to do you need to confirm it with tests. So we kind of fell into this was very serious early on. It was stage four and had we not taken like immediate action that next week. He probably would not have lasted for the end of the month. It was really very, very well, we didn't know. So we didn't know it was that serious because the first doctor we were with was very kind of lackadaisical kind of like, well, we'll get this test started. And so anyway, what happened was, I needed a lot of help. I had three, we have three young kids at this time, I was trying to make a living as trying to help my house where he was working, and I was making living as a freelance writer. And I knew right off the bat that I was in way over my head, like I was absolutely positive. But I didn't know how people can help other than bring a meal, which is the one thing that everyone does. And that actually, sometimes I was like, no more like, Stop bringing us any more food. So through that process, what I realized was that some people knew exactly how to be helpful, and most people didn't know. And for those who didn't know, it was always this awkward place of like, well, what do you need, and I'm like, I don't know, I can't think of anything until 2am when Art's vomiting, and I realize I'm running out of paper towel, right, or, until the morning when I go to pour cereal, I gotta pour milk into the cereal from the bowl for the kids, and there's no milk. So there was a sense of like, there's just this big disconnect. I was on one side of this cliff, and everyone else is on the other side of the cliff, and everybody wanted to help but there was just we needed a bridge. So it, it was, it was my husband's job and we went into this, went into these roles without even discussing it. His job was to beat the cancer, he put blinders on, he focused on nothing but that, and it was serious enough that he couldn't work. So he did not have anything else to think about, but making it through every single day. And then my job became everything else. And the thing about our relationship is we definitely co parented so all of a sudden, I was parenting by myself, he would come you know, he would come out of chemo for a couple days, and then they'd slam with chemo again, and he disappear. And then he come out of chemo for a couple of days, and they slam with chemo again. So it was it was a very harrowing experience. And then we got the all clear. So which is a fantastic thing, you know, you get the all clear. And I thought, which is I think what everyone else thinks is you're gonna have a party and celebrate and you look at life brand new, and you're gonna go do all those things you've been scared to do before. That is not what happened. What happened was we spent, Can I swear? ...(Lesley: you can.) Okay, we spent months looking, we would get into bed and look at each other and go, What the fuck just happened? Like, like, literally like, and then we spent months wondering if we want to remain married. Because something like that really, it brings out the best in your marriage, and it brings out the worst in your marriage. So did we want to remain together? What was that about? I was pissed. Because my husband was...

Lesley Logan 7:58  

I could just imagine like, I've just spent all this time making sure you could just focus on living. And now you're thinking and I'm now I'm rethinking.

Kim Hamer 8:07  

No, I'm rethinking, Should I've made that effort?

Lesley Logan 8:11  

Oh my God. That's so much emotions.

Kim Hamer 8:14  

Yes. It's a lot of emotions. You know, I was pissed. I took on the role of taking on all this stuff. But I also took on the role of being a martyr. So there was part of that play in there. I was pissed because he never thanked me. I mean, just crazy stuff, crazy, crazy stuff. We go through our lives, we decide that we do like each other. And we do want to remain married, we go into couples therapy, which is very, very helpful. On top of all this, there's still side effects from the chemo that we're dealing with eight months later. So I think that's another thing that people don't understand is the chemo doesn't just kind of disappear out of your system. So we remain married, we're going to make a go of it. Were kind of like getting our feet back into life and going out and helping the kids do all these other things. My husband does his first triathlon. I've been doing them for years, it was sort of my domain, but I was like, go for it. It was his first triathlon, we go away for Thanksgiving, and he starts to have symptoms again, but he's not really focusing on the fact that there are symptoms. He's just saying he doesn't feel well. And then and then at the end of December was clear, you know, you look back at photos, you can see that he lost a lot of weight, but when you're with them day to day, you just don't notice. And then he, you know, we caught it, cancer came back less than two years later, it was stage four again. And then four months after that he died. So it was just sort of this whirlwind again. Of, Okay, we're gonna jump into the roles like I knew I was familiar with this role. He was familiar with this role. After he died, of course, you know, he was 44. So very young, and our kids were 12, 9 and 7, they were also young. And there was the sort of, I again, I saw how so many people knew what to do. And so many people didn't know what to do. How friends who we thought would step in, stepped back, and how other people who we didn't really even know that well became our friends. So I became in and stepped in and became my friend, became my husband's friend. And it was about that point that I started to get really resentful of people. I'm going to tell you all this is the honest truth.

Lesley Logan 10:24  

That's what we want because I think that like, like I said, at the beginning of this, y'all like, I was reading what you wrote. And I was like, oh, yeah, like, I know, like, when a friend has that kid, I'm like, Oh, I don't have a kid. So like, should like, what do you need? Do you need toilet paper? Like, but but they need more clothes? Do you need diapers? What? Yeah, exactly. Like, Hey, how's it going? Exactly. Exactly. I feel like, I feel like it's I love that you're sharing all of this, because I think I think one, then when someone in our lives is going through it, we can kind of like glean from this whole moment and learn from it. Also, like, we may be in your same shoes someday. And, gosh, we don't want to feel like we're alone. And like we're the crazy person who's like, yeah, you know, like I'm over the food.

Kim Hamer 11:08  

Exactly. I will tell you this, my kids went on a lasagna strike after my husband died because people kept bringing us lasagna. And you know, there's 100 million ways to make lasagna. So we were getting, so the kids would love one lasagna who I can never remember who bought it for us, you know, who brought it over. And then we have that one, then they have another one. And they were like this one sucks. A month into it, my oldest was like Mom, no more lasagna. We don't want any more lasagna. So I had to tell our friends like no more lasagna, y'all because we were lasagnaed out. So back to the resentment, you know, I just began to feel really angry. I was like, you know, my husband died. And you can't find the courage to come up and talk to me like what the hell's wrong with you? And then as the years go on, I start to have a lot of empathy, sympathy first, and then empathy. And what I realize is, I'm really mad, which is often the case, we get really mad because they're doing something that we have done in the past, or that we would do. And what I realized is I didn't know what to say, I would not have known how to help me if I had been my friend,. I wouldn't know what to say, I would have been the person who said, If you need anything, let me know. And we'll talk about why that's the least helpful thing later. So I wanted to, there's a lot of books out there, if you have cancer, a ton, you know, and it's never enough information, there can always be more, but if one in three of us is going to get a cancer, the other two need to know what to do. And that's why I wrote my book, so that people could quickly like just open it up in a panic like, Oh my God, what do I do, and they open up and, you know, tip number 48, is stock the bathroom, like, make sure that they have, you mentioned toilet paper, make sure they have toilet paper and toothpaste and soap and clean towels and you put your number on the, on a, tape it to the bathroom cupboard door so that when they run out of those things, they don't have to try to remember between them between that moment and getting to write into a piece of paper or getting to their phone to write it down, whatever. So I really want people to be able to take very simple actions, I think the thing that I realized, I think, the thing that I saw, the things that people did the most that were most helpful, were really simple things, you didn't need to sign up to bring food every single Monday for 365 days. Right? It didn't need that, you know, it was helpful for sure. But my idea of helping before my husband got sick would have been like, I need to take this whole thing on because I'm gonna make a difference. And, and you don't need to do that. A lot of the tips in the book were from simple things that people did, and they did them once. But they were really powerful. So that's sort of my story. And then I go into HR, I go back into HR. So I go back to work after not being, after not being in an office for over 12 years. I stumble a little bit and then I decide I need to go back into HR. And my very first job in HR was working for a president of a company whose wife had cancer and then died.

Oh my gosh, like what a divine appointment. I hate, like not wanting to go through that. But like lucky him to have someone in his world who could just look at him and like see him.

Yes, exactly. And I ended up helping the CEO, work with him because the CEO didn't have a clue what to do. I ended up helping his team work with them. And then the back of my mind, that's sort of where the idea came. And then last year, I just decided to go ahead and launch a consultancy. And right now my focus is on employee death. How are managers managing a grieving team? And I think I just spoke to someone yesterday who was like, oh, no, our managers are fine. And I'm like, oh, managers are not. They are scared. They are feeling a ton of pressure because they've got these, they've got these goals they have to meet. And then they've got a grieving team. So all of a sudden Tom, Mr. Nice Guy, Tom been around been nice the whole time, all of a sudden really mean in short and bitchy, and you know, but the manager is like, I need you to do this Tom. And now the manager is afraid to talk to Tom. But the managers feeling afraid because grief makes us feel insignificant and small and scared and afraid. So the managers feeling afraid, doesn't want approach Tom, who's now you know, Tom is off the charts crazy. And it's all because of grief. Yeah. And then Tom, all of a sudden decides to leave the company a year later. And no one, no one really puts those two together that the reason Tom's leaving, is because he wasn't given the space and wasn't told how the grief is going to affect his work. He feels disconnected and disenchanted. His boss is kind of being a jerk, the way Tom sees it. And they can't recover. Because no one's had that conversation with them about, hey, you guys are grieving. And this is what's going on. And this is what's happening. And let's, let's let's talk about how we can work around it. So that's, that's my focus now.

Lesley Logan 16:05  

I mean, what a journey like, gosh, thank goodness for you, and your awareness for this. Because I feel like, you know, there's a lot of people who are out there in the world who are working for themselves. And like, there's some beauty around that, but the most, most people are employee somewhere. And, you know, I would imagine that every owner of a company would like to say, hey, when our employees are going through something, of course, we're there for them. But the problem is, is you're correct. Doesn't matter what happened to the workplace or in life, none of us are really good at grief. None of us are really aware of like, because someone dying makes us think about if that person died in our lives, and when we like, get a little obsessed about that. And then we start to freak out and then we shut down and we're like, can't be, we just can't we don't we also don't want to make a mistake, because we don't want to say the wrong thing. So then we say the wrong thing, which is, let me know if you need anything.

Kim Hamer 16:59  

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

Lesley Logan 17:02  

And we say that because we're like, I don't want to overstep. I don't want to overwhelm I don't, I don't, I don't want to make them cry. I don't want to make them mad. I don't want to like they seem to be doing well. So maybe I shouldn't bring it up.

Kim Hamer 17:15  

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I just got engaged and really want to share with her, but her husband just died. And I want to talk to her about it. 

Lesley Logan 17:20  

Yeah, and that makes him feel even more alone. Because of course, of course, they want to be happy as well. Maybe they won't be as happy as they want to be. But they also don't want to be left out of your life.

Kim Hamer 17:32  

Yes, yes, you are exactly right. I think what happens is we make it about us and not about them. And I think there's two specific reasons we do this, one because we feel out of control. We don't know what to do. So when we're in fear, we step back, we just kind of take a step back. The other, the other reason is because when we're, we don't want to touch on it. It hurts, you know, I, I became aware of how difficult the loss of my husband was for my in laws several years later, like, because it was all about my loss at that point. But all of a sudden, I mean, you know, occasionally, during the last, during the first couple of years, I would look at and think, Holy shit, they lost a son. You know, so we're unable, we don't want to put ourselves in those shoes, because it doesn't feel good to think about the fact that yeah, we are all going to die. We're all gonna die. Yeah, you know what, we don't want to talk about it. We don't want to discuss it. We just kind of hope and pray that today is not the day.

Lesley Logan 18:28  

Yeah, I mean, it's and like, you know, literally today, we had a call with our financial advisor, she's like, Well, how do you guys feel about life insurance policies? And I was like, so I want to make sure that I am taking care of if he, guys, first, because I actually would need to hire a whole new him (...) like, he works with me, I'd have to hire an actual CEO, right? So I need to have money for that, and to be taken care of, because I probably won't be able to get off the carpet for a while. So we need that. And then if I go first, he has to find a new person to take over the company. Like we need to take that like that doesn't even cover grief. That's just like the numbers, right? So like, and even for some people, that's hard enough. So what I mean, you know, obviously like you have your own experience, but like what are some things that you have found like for people co workers and, you know, what are those things that people can recognize are signs of grief because I think we think they're always gonna be crying but also could be Bob's now short tempered, you know, like that's grief.

Kim Hamer 19:32  

Yes, yes, absolutely. First of all, please get the life insurance and double whatever you're thinking about, we can talk offline. Just double whatever you're thinking about. So I think the first thing is, yes, people tend to be short tempered. I always liken it to given birth and you know, you see the funny the funny outtakes when the woman's in labor and the husband like pats her brow and she just screams at him, right? She loses her mind. Well, that actually does happen. And sometimes in birth, because our bodies, our female bodies are so focused on doing this one thing. So anything that distracts us, pisses us off, because it's distracting us from the process. And so, when that happens, when grief happens to somebody, whether it's a colleague or a friend or a partner, you have these blinders on, because you were just trying to figure out what your next move is your brain is, you have now lost track of the person in your life, you can't find them anymore. Like they're not you, you can't fly to see them. They're not around the corner, or they're not in bed. So you're not showing up for work. So your brain is trying to adjust to this, this different time, space reality. And it's really working hard. And when it's really working hard, it doesn't like to be distracted. So grief can show up. Like all of a sudden, you could be talking about rainbows, and this person could burst out crying. So I think sometimes we think, Oh, no, let's not talk about that person, because I'll make them cry. That sometimes has nothing to do with it. It's just sometimes, it's just this random thought pops it and they cry. Short temperedness is a really great one, sadness, we don't do sadness well, we're so quick to call sadness, depression. But sometimes it's just sad. And so you feel lethargic, you don't want to go to work. Disinterest is another huge one that happens a lot. Is all of a sudden, that job that you loved. What's the point? Why am I going to work? Why am I showing up? This is really dumb. Right? And that can lead to that short temperedness. Right? Because someone's, someone who's not as close to the person who has died is at a meeting with you. And they're talking about this type of thing. And they're getting mad about it. And you're like, are you serious right now? Joe just died three weeks ago, and you're in here yelling about this number that doesn't make a rap of difference. So it's, I think those are some of the things that people need to look at. Another one that people often don't look at is the opposite, that high energy, high positivity, everything's going to be alright. It was purpose. You know, I'm really grateful I got to know this person, she was really great. Just that kind of high energy like, that is someone who's really working hard to protect that and that incredible anger, sadness, resentment. Another one is guilt. And guilt, of course, can't be seen. But sometimes when we're guilty, we turned to anger to protect it. Anger, I always consider anger as a cover emotion. Usually when you're angry, there's other feelings below that that are causing the anger come up. So guilt is another one I last words I exchanged with them wasn't good, I should have been nicer, or they were doing this meeting I didn't, you know, we can come up with all sorts of reasons we should, should have (...) and that can also drive a lot of a lot of feelings at work. So I think those are sort of the top ones when you, when you ask.

Lesley Logan 22:49  

Yeah, thank you. I mean, like, it is interesting how anger can be the cover for a lot of things, I think, the fear of all of it, right? So you know, and so you wrote a book. And what was that? Was that almost like therapeutic for you? Was it helpful to kind of like organize all the things that were helpful was it for you? So when a friend or family member is in the same situation, you can go okay, I have to remember this? Like, what prompted that? because a book is a big deal. It takes a lot of time and effort. So what prompted that?

Kim Hamer 23:23  

It was like a fight between me and spirit or me, whatever you want to call it, me, God, Buddha, spirit, whatever. Because there's like, you need to write this and I was like, yeah, no. I'm not ready. No, you really need it. No, no, no, no, no, you. I'm not a writer, I kept telling myself, I'm not a writer. And I finally decided, I wrote it and 17 minutes a day, every day I would go to work at a company, I would sit down at my desk. And I would set a timer and I'd write for 17 minutes. 15 felt to clean like it didn't feel like enough and 20 felt way too long. So 17 was what I found. And it just I would just kind of keep going and 17 minutes, 17 minutes, 17 minutes, sometimes I would end up writing for an hour. Other times, it was just all I could do to write for 17 minutes. And as it started to come out of me, that's when I started to organize it. So I realized that the book is organized in sections, helping with a car, right? And we don't think about that when someone's dealing with cancer, we're always going to food. But a car needs to run, a car needs to have gas in it, a car needs to be registered, right? All those things, a car needs to be washed, all those things around a car, then we have help around food, but it's not the typical Hey, bring over lasagna. It's things like put a cooler by the front door. So the person doesn't have to answer the door every single time a meal is delivered. That's a pretty important one. It gives the power back to the person who's receiving the support. Whether or not they want to put out the energy to talk to you at that moment or not you personally but talk to whoever's at the door. Yeah, I'm helping with kids because I had kids at the time and so helping, I still have children. They're just not children. I said that once, people go, My God, did they die? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah it was just the size of them.

Yes. And then work and helping from a distance. So that's how it became to be organized. But it was, it was very scary for me. But once I started organizing, I had a vision of it. I really kind of wanted it to be sort of like a coffee table book, the kind of book that people can leave out and people go, what is this? and open it up. I really wanted it to be easy to read. Because I don't like I mean, I'm all, I read a lot. But I hate, I'm a bullet point, underlying kind of gal, you know, and so I don't want to read when I'm in a hurry to help my friend who's dealing with cancer or loss or anything else. I don't want to have to read five pages to get to that one nugget. So it's, it really is sort of a flip open book. And you can just kind of open it up and like, oh, here give her cash. Okay, wait, it was say, give her cash and then run away? Okay, great. I'll do that. Yeah. So these kind of really simple tips. And so that's how it came to be. But I had friends, I, you know, took a chance. And I had friends come over a couple Sundays in a row. And they read through it with me, and they asked for clarity and area. So getting that feedback was really hard. It was not a painless process.

Lesley Logan 26:17  

No. But I love that you brought people in to help you with that feedback. As you were saying that I was like, Oh my gosh, it should be on like the guest bathroom toilet. Like, just, you know what I mean? Like, because like people are always in the guest bathroom. And they if they're, then they're a little longer than that. They could like repaint, like a just flip it open and go, Oh, yes, you could like pass on these little nuggets, so that, you know if they ever need it. And then maybe they have it, I think I think that, especially for what the whole book is, like, the way you put it together. And those bullet points. What I love about that is it's like we're so not, we're still not good at talking about grief. And so having a bullet point of I can do this. And also for the perfectionists and overachievers who are like I need it, I don't want to, I don't want to screw it up. It's like, just do this one thing and you don't have to do it every Tuesday, you could just do it this Tuesday. And like, that's it, you know, I mean, it's, we forget that those small acts really do mean a lot. And you don't have to be all or nothing, I think we can really take the pressure off of ourselves to do that because, you know, the other person may not need that same thing next week. So you don't have to sign up or the not sign up because you've told yourself a story is going to be for the next nine months.

Kim Hamer 27:30  

Right. Exactly, exactly. And I think that is a really good point. It really is. It's hard because we don't feel like it's enough, right? Our friend or colleague or employee is going through hell, and really what enough is, is if we could just take it away from them. And I think sometimes we just we don't define what enough is in our heads. And so we keep thinking, There's got to be something more there's got to be something I can do or be or say. And you know it you know, the book also includes what not to say and what to say. So even if you can get to the point where you read them what not to say and then you take one thing about to say and just do that. That's enough. We all want to be witnessed, right? That's what, I mean, that's what Facebook and Tik Tok and all mean, they just took what we wanted. And, you know, I used to be, I wanted to be in the school newspaper, or you know, in my hometown newspaper that was being witnessed. But now it's taken like national stage, right? So, so we all want to be witnessed, including when we're going through a difficult time. But that witnessing doesn't have to be like let's put, let's put together a prayer circle and circle around or when there's a full moon and, you know, howl to the wolves or something. It just has to be me. I'm so sorry, this is happening to you. Like it just, it just breaks my heart. Right? you just expressing that moment of touching in. And I think that's what we, I think that's what we're most afraid of. 

Lesley Logan 28:59  

Yeah. I mean, my goodness, our fear keeps us from doing so many things in our own lives, let alone, let alone like being there for those when they need it. And so, okay, so I want to know how you became this consultant. How do you start? How did you start doing that? Like, was that something that you knew you could do? Is it because you've been an HR so you had an idea of like, how to start doing that like, because that's, that's like, that's a, there's a difference being like, Okay, I like wrote a book, okay, I have a job and now you're like, Okay, now I'm going to talk about grief all the time with everybody all the time. You know, like that's a big deal, and then you're also having, then you also relive your story all the time. So I just wonder, like, what, like, what allowed you to make this decision and like, how did you go about doing it?

Kim Hamer 29:47  

I think again, it was one of those tugs where there it's hard. I mean, it's hard. I just right before this call, I just sent out 15 LinkedIn messages, I videoed, a video them with the name, saying this's what I do, this is how I can help. And this is also how I can help and I sent them out. And, and the title of it says, let's talk about death, not yours, but your employee. And you get this message that says, let's talk about death with a link, and then they get a video. And, and it's, it's crazy making, I literally, I mean, there are days right before this morning, I was like, this isn't gonna work, I can't do this, I'm only gonna have one or two clients, you know, it is, every day, it is just deciding that I'm going to make some type of step by step, some type of goal for myself, and then I add a little bit more to it to make it a stretch goal to make it uncomfortable. And then I just have to hit the ground running. As far as process. You know, I've been in HR for so long. So what I've done is taken some of really basic kind of management one on one, and interwoven that with, with what it's like to deal with a grieving team. So it's not like I pulled this out of thin air. You know, I've been, I've been studying and taking classes and you know, I have my PHR, which is a certificate. So I've been enveloped in the HR world, and it was just sort of like, oh, well, this piece would fit nicely right here and this piece goes right here, oh, that piece goes right here. And so now all of a sudden, I have a process. So it's, I think, I think that's it really is sort of following your gut. And I hate when people say, I just have to tell you I'm so sorry, everyone who's listening, because you're like what if your guts wrong? And believe me, I just have that all the time. I'm like, what if I'm doing it wrong? It really is. It's, it's it is trusting, it is believing so much in what I'm doing that I can't not do it. And I've tried. I've tried to say you know what, I'm just going to do HR, I like it. It's an exciting field, no, two days are the same. That's where I want to go. And I try that road. And then in the back of my mind as always as okay, but write this one blog post about this thing. Oh, then you should probably do another blog post about that thing. And so it's just, it's always, it's always present. And so I can't ignore it anymore. I just can't. And it's scary as hell. I mean, it's, it's scary as hell.

Lesley Logan 32:12  

Yeah. I think you anyone listening can insert whatever their goal is. Yeah. And put that there because I think like you said, like, there's a tug. And I think like, that is a really like, it's like, it's an idea that just never leaves you like It's like Hello, knock, knock, knock. You should do this. Exactly. And so I think like, you know, thank you for sharing that in a way that we can all go. Yep, been there. I was talking with a friend earlier today. And I was like, yeah, sometimes I'm like, why am I like working so hard on this thing that I'm like, so passionate about because like, I make really good money, just teaching. Just teaching, I could just teach and like, that was it, right? And then as I was saying that I was like, and I would be so bored. Cuz I clearly like this. What I'm doing stretches me in a way that like challenges me makes no two days the same. I know it's making a bigger impact. So it's just this really funny thing. Like it's pretty hard. Eventually that voice gets so loud, you can't not listen to it. So I love it. Thank you for sharing that process. You know, I think it's really cool. What you're doing, there's, it's so needed. And I, like, as you're talking about, like three people, I hope she'll just (...). Like, I just I don't know why I've been so interested in this topic lately. Because it's not like I've had any loss in my life. And a lot recently or that are close to me. But I do see how it affects, I coach a lot of Pilates instructors, a client passes away. And it's like, that's your, every Sunday at 9am. That was your client, like, that's, you don't just go and put someone else in there. It's not like the person goes, thanks so much Less, I'm not coming anymore. Not renewing my package like that. It's like...

Kim Hamer 33:59  

But even that's a loss. I mean, you know, you know, I just broke up with a guy. It wasn't like, we did like five dates. And I texted him and said, Hey, I don't think this is a fit. And then last week, I'm thinking about him. I'm like, Ah, maybe, maybe he was so sweet. He was so nice this way. And you know, like, because I realize I'm grieving, not the kind of grief that is when you're, when your person dies, but even losing a client, someone who you like is grief. And I think that and I think you're questioning it, your kind of curiosity about it right now really speaks to the fact that there is, there's loss almost, especially in if when you're an entrepreneur, there's loss of pretty much every week

Lesley Logan 34:45  

(...)

Kim Hamer 34:47  

some dreams, something that you have to give up and sometimes it's, sometimes it's bigger and better but I also think this is what makes life amazing. And,you know, we hear people talk about the stories and about how, I think, I don't remember, wasn't Brene Brown, it was someone else who just talked about how to use terrible things to really make your life sweeter. And I hate to say that I want I do want to say something, I'm going to talk about a silver lining that I got from my husband's death. I want to make it really clear to everybody that it is not your job to point out other persons silver lining. So many people were like, well, you know, you have so much going for you like they were trying to put silver linings around. One of my friends said, Kim, you know, don't worry, you're young, you're beautiful, you can get married again. And I was like, Oh, well, then I don't need to be so sad. Because you can replace my husband.

Lesley Logan 35:43  

You know, you know that they don't mean it that way. But, like, yeah, I love that. We don't need to find other people silver lining, they get to do that in their own story.

Kim Hamer 35:55  

Exactly. And, you know, the silver lining for me is, I mean, there's been a ton of them, you know, I, I hadn't experienced with my youngest son, I was, I applied to speak at this event. And I needed to have my application reread, like, I just knew I wasn't quite gotten it. And my daughter does a lot of it for me. And I just called my youngest son because we've been working together on some writing stuff for him. And so I said, Hey, can you take a look at this? And he's like, yeah, and took a look at it. And he said, I don't understand this. And what about that, and, and it got, it got clear, I got clarity. And my application got accepted. And I thought, I said to him, Oh, I said to him, you know, your father would be so proud that you did this. And then I thought, Oh, if Art were here, I would have never gone to Ezra, I would have never asked my youngest son for support, right? And that we now have a bond on a different level because my husband's dead. And there's no trade off. I can't say I wish my husband was alive. And I wish I didn't have this bond. And I'm glad my husband's dead. And I'm grateful for the bond. There's no, there's no either or it's just this kind of combination. So I have this incredible bond with my children, where I ask them for support in a way that most mothers when you're married to someone, you don't ask your kids for support in that way. And it was so beautiful, and so sweet and so wonderful. And it's because my husband died. So there's this, there's always this juxtaposition of my life. I really like my life. I really do. And I still think about my husband every single day. Not always in tears, a lot of times in laughter. But I still think about him every single day when my life is really sweet, and wonderful and open and kind and I love more openly because he died. I can't trade that, there's no trade off.

Lesley Logan 37:51  

Oh my gosh, Kim, you're amazing. I hope we get to connect more in the future. I just, I'm grateful that you're doing what you're doing. We're gonna take a brief break everyone. And then we're gonna find out how people can work with you and your Be It action items. All right, Kim. Well, you have been just wonderful sharing everything that you've learned. And I've learned so much from you already. Where can people find you, follow you, work with you? I know you hang out on the LinkedIn. 

Kim Hamer 38:21  

I do. Hang out on LinkedIn. Uncool professional platform.

Lesley Logan 38:27  

I know (...) is trying to get me over there. And I

Kim Hamer 38:31  

We'll talk afterwards. Get some pluses. So yeah, so find me on LinkedIn, I'm @Kim Hamer on LinkedIn, you can just Google my name and it comes up on LinkedIn. I also spent a lot of time on Instagram @100actsoflove. So I'm also there, you can find my stories about my kids and more personal stories about my life as a widow there. So those are the two best places. If, I know, we talked about this really quick and is it okay, if I talk really quick about what's the number one thing not to say?...(Lesley: Yeah, yes.) Okay. Because I wanted to make sure I touched on that. So the number one thing not to say, If you need anything, let me know. There are four reasons you should never say that. One, is because it doesn't connect you we talked a lot about just sitting in the yuck with the person who is going through this horrible time and it's really important that you just take a moment to go, Oh, you know, to say, My heart hurts or I don't know what to say, to acknowledge what's happening and that phrase doesn't acknowledge it. Two, you're gonna like this one. But Lesley, what is anything? like anything, like, did anything mean that you're gonna go pick up my vomiting four year old toddler and the car you just cleaned? Or did anything mean you just be happy to drop off a bottle of wine? Anything is too big for anybody to get their head around. It's just too much. The third reason it's not helpful, now you put the pressure on the person you're trying to help to come up with something. Right? And so their brains already like I like to say they already don't have 52 decks, 52 cards in the deck right now, they may be down to 26 and maybe they have 47. We don't know. But they're not thinking straight. And so you're now putting the extra pressure on them to figure out what anything is and figure out that one thing that you might be willing to do. And the fourth reason it's not helpful is because y'all none of us are really good at asking for help. And now you've put the pressure on someone who is extremely vulnerable with their life right now, their life has ups that like the floor has become the sidewall, and they don't know what they're doing. And now you're asking them in this extremely vulnerable state, to ask you to do something that you may not want to do that they just figured maybe this is the thing that you want to do and risk rejection. And nobody is going to do that. And we all think I don't want to bother them, they're too busy. This puts a burden on them. That's where our heads go. So the person is, is unless they're like your bestest friend in the whole wide world, they're not going to come back and ask you to do something. So that's why it's the least helpful. Instead, be specific and offer more than once. Now, there are four other things I recommend that you don't say. And a great way to find those four other things is to go to my website, did you like the segue there?...(Lesley: I love it. I love a good transition.) You go to my website at 100. That's the number 100actsoflove.com. Backslash what not to say. So you'll download, it'll say for cancer, it applies for everything, you will learn the four other things not to say, why they're not helpful to say, because I think that's really important that people start to, there aren't there's an anatomy of an unhelpful thing to say. So people start to kind of understand, oh, when I'm in fear, I tend to say things that are less helpful. And then they'll also find other phrases to say instead of those four bad phrases, so that's what I wanted to share.

Lesley Logan 41:47  

Oh, my goodness, okay. Well, thank you. That is, I'll be going there, we'll put the link in the show notes. You know, I mean, it's just, it's terrible that we all are and it's 2023 when we're recording this and like, we still don't know these things. They're not being taught these things in school, you know, you've given us so much and so honestly, if that is the bold, executable, intrinsic, target step to Be It Till You See It, I'll take it. But if you had anything else to add to that, you know, let us know because, you're so, you're so informative, and it's really easy for people to understand. So...

Kim Hamer 42:26  

Thank you, I think that I have sort of three. The first one is feeling feelings, it sucks that this person who you like or care about, or really love is going through what they're going through. And I recommend, you know, crying in a car, just put some sad music on a car, just go for a drive and have a really good cry, maybe not drive and cry at the same time. Depends how coordinated you are. Larger crying, but you know, get those feelings out of you, right? Pissed off letter to the higher power about how this isn't fair. But whatever it is, get those feelings out of you. Because once they're out of you, when they do a lot less damage out on paper or in the air than they do in your head. And when they're in their head, when they're in your head, they leak out of you, no matter how hard you try to not have them leak out of you, they will leak out of you. And the person you're trying to help will feel them, they may be completely unable to articulate what they're feeling but they're going to feel them. And that's what you don't want to do. I think the second actionable thing is think about your, what your specific offer is, you know, we all have helping superpowers. Mine happened to be I love a clean kitchen, you need me to come in and clean your kitchen, I'm happy to do it. And I will find whatever you need from the grocery store, I will meet that truck at 5am in the morning to make sure that I get that item off that off that truck. So those happen to be two of my favorites. But there things that we're really good at, maybe it's Excel, maybe it's putting together a pivot table, right at work, maybe it's putting together a project report, maybe it's corralling children, maybe it's maybe it's driving or fixing cars, or you have a really good mechanic, we all have specific things that we're really good at. And that we like to do. And we don't find value in them, because they're so easy for us. But that's your helping superpower. So offer that and offer more than once because again, the person that you're dealing with, is not dealing with a full deck of cards. So make sure that you're just, you know, just reminding them every now and then that you're there. And then the last thing is, this is sort of hard, but don't make it about yourself. If they don't call you. It's not because you're an ass or they're mad at you or whatever. It's because I think that I guess maybe the third thing is put yourself in their shoes. Yeah, for just a moment. Right? They're not really concerned about calling you because they're pissed at you because you didn't offer the right way. They got so many bigger things to deal with. That is like 1027 on their list right now. So don't make it about you just send them a lot of love. So I think those are the three things. 

Lesley Logan 44:51  

Yeah, those are beautiful. And actually just like, I'm so glad I just like went through them. I can't wait for Brad to hear this because I'm like, Oh, we're really going to help him out with dogs. We can walk people's dogs. And whenever I ordered chewy, I can go and figure out what their order is. And just place that thing like, you know what I mean? Like we can all find different things that we can whenever I'm going to order dog food, I can just you know, so like, there's ways we can make it so that it's helpful. And you don't have to feel like you had to like, you don't feel like you're burdening yourself with it as well. So continue just putting more pressure on yourself and you do nothing. Yeah. Oh my gosh, thank you, Kim, for being here. Y'all...(Kim: You're very welcome.) How are you going to use these tools in your life? How are you going to use these tips? I really hope that this is one of those episodes you can save and re listen to if you need or share with a friend who's like oh my gosh, my friend at work went through this thing. It's like oh, hey, listen to this because this is, here, you know, I mean, like that's why I hope that this episode can be for you. Tag Kim Hamer, tag the Be It pod with your takeaways and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.  I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 44:51  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 44:51  

It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 44:51  

Theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 44:51  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 44:51  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai