Be It Till You See It

Lesley explores the importance of celebrating successes, even those that fall short of one’s aspirations, highlighting each win as valuable in its own right. Listen and be inspired by Alexis and Megan's transformative stories of personal growth and their commitment to fostering achievement. This episode is a heartening exploration of accomplishment, resilience, and the significance of embracing one’s victories.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Strategies for overcoming Imposter Syndrome to achieve your aspirations.
• The power of motivating others through positive affirmations.  
• The power of celebrating wins, no matter their size. 

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Alexis Jorge
• Mentions, Megan Laumann
• eLevate Mentorship

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

Get your free Athletic Greens 1 year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 and 5 free travel packs

Get your discount for some Toe Sox using the code: LESLEY

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan [00:00:00]:

It's Fuck yeah. Friday.

Lesley Logan [00:00:01]:

Brad Crowell: Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan [00:00:02]:

Get ready for some wins. Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Leslie Logan, plies instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world, and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My my friends, action brings clarity, and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan [00:00:47]:

Happy Fuck Yeah Friday.

Lesley Logan [00:00:48]:

Hello.

Lesley Logan [00:00:49]:

How are you? Welcome back. And if it's your first time here hi. On Fridays, we do these short and sweet episodes where I share a win of yours or two of yours and a win of mine, and I've added these little mantras at the end, and you're all loving it, so thanks for letting me know. And then you go off and you share your win, and you can tag me, so I can share it here, but you actually just start to be the domino effect for people winning in your life, and it's just really a lot of fun. So our first win is from Alexis George. She is in my eLevate round three. That's my Pilates mentorship program for teachers. And she wrote, I climbed out of my imposter syndrome hole and taught a private session in my home studio.

Lesley Logan [00:01:28]:

Experienced zero anxiety, knew what I was looking at and what to queue for. It felt natural for the first time in my teaching career, it'd be easy to discredit where I am at with comparison, or shoulds. But I won't. This is where I am at, and I'm celebrating the heck out of not being where I was four months ago. Thank you, LL, for the knowledge to really know and tie these exercises together. Thank you, Lauren, for your weekly practice and support. Thank you, eLevate peers, for all you contribute.

Lesley Logan [00:01:57]:

Can't wait for Joe's gyms with you all. Alexis. Girl, I remember when you started. This is incredible. This is just amazing in four months. Okay, our next one is Megan Laumann. She's also in eLevate round three. She wrote, members requested a class focused on learning teaser on the box.

Lesley Logan [00:02:16]:

I had my speech prepared for the end of class. Remind them that they're good at Pilates even if they didn't do teaser on the box that day. And then they all got it. So we added on several teaser variations. I was shocked. Snakes last week and teasers this week. It's a win that I have such a fun group to work with. They're so serious about finding connections and advancing their practice.

Lesley Logan [00:02:37]:

Another win. My son got approved for communication device from our children's hospital, which means our insurance covers the device. And he has his very own words to take with him everywhere. That just makes you want to cry. This is so cool. Everyone deserves to be heard. Thank you, Megan, for sharing both of those wins with all of us. Okay, my win. So recently we wrapped up the application period for eLevate round four, and the previous eLevates one, two, and three, like, just sold out, no problems.

Lesley Logan [00:03:13]:

And so eLevate round four, I thought, okay, it's going to be hard for me to pick who to pick. And it was interesting, for the first time, we actually had a lot of people who are like, oh, I'll just do 2024, 2025 instead. Like, this is not the right time. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm starting to worry a little bit. We actually almost sold out. We have like ten out of twelve spots full filled. And I am celebrating that we are doing eLevate round four even though it's not sold out yet. And the reason I am doing that is like, too freaking often we have an achievement, but it doesn't actually hit the goal that we set for it.

Lesley Logan [00:03:49]:

And so therefore, we don't consider it an achievement. And the fact that I'm doing another round of eLevate is an achievement itself because it's actually an achievement of all the women who've done it, because the women who have done it are the reasons why I keep doing it. And I freaking love this program. I love the nine months. I love what happens after they graduate. I love what I've seen from the people who've graduated already and how far they come a year later. I love that I get to do a retreat with them next year. And I am so freaking stoked that these ten people have been like, yes, I want to do the next one.

Lesley Logan [00:04:21]:

And I know we're going to fill the next two spots. And don't worry, I'll celebrate that one when that happens. But I hope that this sits with you. You don't have to celebrate only the things that are 100% perfect. So I noticed people who have fitness circles fit their rings are like, I got to close the ring. And I'm like, so you don't dance up and down until the ring is closed. You don't dance like, my ring is half closed. I did half my ring circle today.

Lesley Logan [00:04:49]:

We have to stop putting this expectation on ourselves that if we don't meet the finish line that is predetermined and doesn't consider all the things that are going involved at the time that it's happening, that it's not a win, it's fucking win. Because you showed up and you did the best you could. Anyways, if you are listening to this and you love the wins of the people who were on today, and you're a teacher who's you've got a conference training, then I want you to reach out to me. We've got two spots left, and I'm not going to run another one until 2025. If we do that, so, yeah, let us know. Anyways, a mantra for you to repeat after me or write down in your journal. It is I am listening and open to the messages the universe has to offer today. I am listening and open to the messages the universe has to offer today.

Lesley Logan [00:05:40]:

I think that's beautiful. All right. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. Make sure that you take some time to celebrate your wins. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan [00:05:50]:

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It. Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others. Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan [00:06:13]:

Have an awesome day.

Lesley Logan [00:06:17]:

Be It Till You See It is

Lesley Logan [00:06:18]:

a production of the Bloom Podcast Network.

Lesley Logan [00:06:20]:

Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your hosts, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan [00:06:26]:

It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Lesley Logan [00:06:29]:

Brad Crowell: Our theme music is by Ali At Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan [00:06:36]:

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Lesley Logan [00:06:42]:

Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website, and finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Ever wondered about the magic behind authentic PR? Dive in with Lesley and Brad as they unravel Lesley's insightful conversation with PR expert, Whitney Lee! Explore the world of genuine connections and discover the charm of organic engagement in this recap episode.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Learn to tailor PR strategies to align with your unique market.
• Grasp the importance of valuing facts over emotions in PR narratives.
• Discover PR's crucial role in sustaining brand relevance.
• Find out how to attract people who resonate with your vibe.

Episode References/Links:

• Cambodia Pilates Retreat
• eLevate Mentorship

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

Get your free Athletic Greens 1 year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 and 5 free travel packs

Get your discount for some Toe Sox using the code: LESLEY

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:00  

Authenticity, right. And this idea of authentic, you know, I feel like it's overplayed, but but the way that she talks about it, you know, it's important to just be yourself, you have to be you and what it will happen organically is that you will attract people who appreciate your vibe, your personality, your nature, your you know, bubbliness or, you know, and vice versa, you're actually going to be turning away people who just don't vibe with you.

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:20  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap where my co-host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the pragmatic convo I have with Whitney Lee in our last episode. If you haven't yet, listened to this episode yet, you should go back and do that. Because Whitney Lee is a badass. She also just won some awards in Florida where she's like, of the women to know and the girl can dress I'm just gonna say it. So we love Whitney. Before we get into the interview, today is October 5, which is two days after Brad and I celebrate our wedding anniversary of eight years.  

Brad Crowell 0:50  

What? Holy cow.

Lesley Logan 0:51  

I could be wrong on the (inaudible). I'm pretty sure I'm dead fucking right.

Brad Crowell 0:55  

Yeah, you're right. 

Lesley Logan 0:56  

Anyways, we used to wonder if it was October 3 or October 5 was our anniversary. We're pretty clear it's on the third. 

Brad Crowell 1:02  

Yeah, it was on the fourth. Yeah. 

Lesley Logan 1:05  

We really hope it was on the third. 

Brad Crowell 1:06  

It was the third it was the third. 

Lesley Logan 1:08  

It's in our calendar guys don't worry (inaudible). And today is the only two days after our eight year wedding anniversary. It is World Teachers' Day and also World Meningitis Day. And because I thought both these are so important for you to know about first of all celebrate the teachers in your life and many of you are listening to this podcast so I celebrate all of you. (Brad: Yeah) And by the way, if your parents did not freak the fuck out of you about kissing someone wrong in college and getting spinal meningitis today's the day someone tells you don't kiss the wrong person. You could die.

Brad Crowell 1:45  

I've never heard of this. She said it to me, I was like what are you talking about? (Lesley: I was warned) I thought you've got, I thought you got like what was the what was the sickness that you got (Lesley: Mono) I thought you got Mono from kissing people in college.

Lesley Logan 1:56  

I got Mono before I'd ever kissed someone and you would not believe how much I had to convince my parents. I did not kiss anybody to get mono because all the fucking old wives tales had them convinced I must admit that was someone at any rate, I don't believe in injuries to just come from kissing a frog. I do believe it does come from like college shit dorm room so watch yourself. And if you're not in college, wash your hands. Okay, (Brad: Wash your hands) Everyone should just wash their hands. 

Brad Crowell 2:21  

Yeah, college is a pandemic is what she's basically saying. 

Lesley Logan 2:23  

Well life is I mean it's got a lot of shit going on. But at any rate, washing your hands is never a bad thing. (Brad: It's never a bad thing.) Unless the water is (inaudible). Okay, so we are currently in Cambodia (Brad: Believe it or not.). So this is recorded ahead of time obviously. We are in Cambodia. Our retreat starts in a couple of days we are so excited. (Brad: Oh man.) eality is is that if you're wanting to come to the next retreat, we're only doing one next year (Brad: Only doing one.) So here's the deal we're gonna open up the doors for the early bird special to

Brad Crowell 2:54  

Open up the doors. I'm just your hyped man today.

Lesley Logan 2:56  

Okay, only those on the wait list. Oh my god, it's a really bad (inaudible). (Brad: Oh, wow.) Seriously though, if you're on the waitlist, you'll get the early bird special. So you want to be on the waitlist Lesleylogan.co/retreat will get you there. We will be opening the doors in January for you to sign up. The space is limited because the reality is we only have so many rooms in our house and so many rooms in our neighbor's house. (Brad: It's true.) It's not their house. It's like It's like actual bed and breakfast. But at any rate, and there's only so many seats on 

Brad Crowell 3:30  

We call it the guest house there. We don't call it a bed and breakfast. (Lesley: They got a guest house.) Yeah, there's a guest house.

Lesley Logan 3:36  

So yeah. (Brad: November )Yeah. So then November when I get back when we get back from Cambodia. We have Nashville for our own personal stuff. No, I'm not teaching. I love you Nashville. We'll talk. Then I'm going to head to Chicago to meet up with Erika Quest. The very first weekend of November. We're teaching at the Club Pilates on St. Charles. And if you are wanting tickets to that, as of the recording of this episode, we actually do not have the public link for you yet. So you want to just DM me to see if there's any spots left. And then it's Thanksgiving. So you know, thanks you're giving. And then we're going to be in December on our winter tour. Now the winter tour is super fun. Actually the first weekend of December I'm actually going to Frisco for our annual Frisco workshops with Erika Quest, shout out to my baby again. And then I come back and then we load the van up and then we we actually hit our winter tour up which Texas you'll be back in the limelight on the winter tour. So I expect to see you two times no excuses. And if you want more information on the winter tour, actually, Brad can tell you where to go.

Brad Crowell 4:47  

Yeah, so you're gonna go to opc.me/tour.

Lesley Logan 4:51  

And lastly, all of these things are awesome but clearly sound like in person events. It's not always possible. You might live somewhere amazing the world if you are a Pilates teacher, Happy World Teacher Today, and also, I may have spots left in my mentorship program. I only offer it once a year Sue, if you are wanting to basically get some confidence in how you're teaching, make it easier to show up, teach and enjoy that time outside of teaching and really progress your clients and also your amazing practice, then you'll want to go to Lesleylogan.co/elevate to hear more about my mentorship. It's pretty awesome. In fact, some people would call it a game changer, those people would be eLevate people.

Brad Crowell 5:31  

Yeah. You can also send her a DM. 

Lesley Logan 5:34  

You can. You can send me a DM, it's probably will probably will keep you from ending up on a waitlist and making sure that you actually get the information before it kicks off. Because once it kicks off, that's it, folks. (Brad: That's it, folks.) So, 2025, which is kind of nuts. So probably (Brad: That's weird.) and also, we cannot guarantee what I'm doing in 2025. (Brad: That's true.) I'm an Aquarius, you guys. That's just how it goes. Anyways, before we talk about Whitney Lee, Brad, we have audience questions?

Brad Crowell 6:03  

We do. Right now, we just are wrapping up Agency Mini from Profitable Pilates and (Lesley: It's very wrapped.) Yeah. Well, yes, at the time of recording, Alexis George asks tips from keeping, what are tips to keep your clients moving and not talking as much?

Lesley Logan 6:23  

Oh my gosh, raise your hand unless you're driving only raise one hand. If your clients teach you treat you like they're a therapist?

Brad Crowell 6:31  

Oh, I mean, I think it just comes with the job, right?

Lesley Logan 6:35  

Well, here is the deal. My loves. And it's not like I didn't have clients who did this. And it's not like I didn't see some of my favorite teachers who I love and respect have clients who do this, clients do this. However, it is out of your scope to actually therapize them. So you can listen to (Brad: Is that a word, therapize?) Yes, dear, look it up. It's a word. If I were playing Scrabble, it's a word. And it's got a Z so I would like all the points. 

Brad Crowell 6:57  

It's totally a word. Subject (Lesley: You heard it here.) to psychological therapy. (Lesley: Yeah.) You don't need to therapize or fix each other.

Lesley Logan 7:05  

Yeah, you don't, unless you're actually a therapist and actually paying you for that. But what I find is like movement, is where trauma leaves the body. And so there is going to be some discussion of things they are not going to be silent. You know, unless they're a silent person, and there are those people, you're just like, do you like this? Do you like me? Is this working? And the truth is that their workout faces and their workout, like being is not actually a true barometer of how amazing your teaching is. Nor is their talking too much, but what you can do. First of all, I love exercises that make them have to focus. So you can actually go hey, I want to hear the story.

Brad Crowell 7:48  

So did you say coordination? I'm pretty sure that you said coordination. 

Lesley Logan 7:50  

Yeah. How's that going? For you, Brad? 

Brad Crowell 7:51  

Yeah, it's going. (Lesley: Yeah, you're doing it.) I didn't do it right. I did it wrong. 100%.

Lesley Logan 7:57  

Okay. Thank God for flashcards anyway, so you pick an exercise that makes them have to think so first of all, I let my client absolutely tell me everything about their day, their neighbors, that, you know, the weekend lives in their building, and all that shit, during footwork. Because guess what, when the 100 comes, they have to shut the fuck up. They have to this is where you all, even if your contemporary teacher, can I just say steal the footwork through the 100, it will help because the footwork, they can talk, talk talk, it's fine. You're just looking at seeing what their body's doing anyways, and then 100 they cannot breathe in for five and out for five and pumped arms at the same time, and tell you about their day, unless they're fucking amazing. And therefore that story must be worth hearing. So I love to make a joke like, oh, wow, you really want to tell me the story while you're counting to 100. I'm impressed. And it kind of gets them to go, Oh, I am so sick in 200. Because I always say and if you've been to any class, on my tours, I say, I have never counted to 100 ever my 15-year career, and today is not the day I'm doing that. So these things are really helpful. Just bring people back to it. But also, again, because they're moving trauma is going to leave the body. It may. They don't know what that trauma is. And so they're often just like talking because they don't know what they're feeling. And so it's a little weird. And some people are verbal processors. Hello, I'm one of them. So I actually talk to Jay, on a zoom class with six other people there. I'm like, it's too quiet. Let me tell you a story. All right. So I hear you. Here's another tip. Don't ask an actual question back. Just say, Oh, wow, that must have been really difficult, period. You know, so if you don't ask a question back, or when you speak, you just bring them back to the exercise. And if they asked you a question, full permission, just go. Well, you know, I haven't thought about that. Let me think about it and get back to you. Like you can actually just go let me think about that and get back to you. (Brad: Shut it down.) You don't have to, and if they ask anything you should go, Look, this is really important that I progress you and you get your goals. Unless you just really love hanging out with me and paying for that. I really want to make sure you get your goals. Yeah. And that really helps because the thing is that they don't reach their goals. If they ever have a bad day and their packages do, and they're having bad money trouble. You're on the chopping block. So it's really important to bring it back to it and it's difficult. You have to train them how to treat you, but it is possible. And again, make them work. They can't speak at the same time. Okay, I love it. If you have questions, send them in.

Brad Crowell 10:34  

Send in a DM. 

Lesley Logan 10:35  

Yeah.  

Brad Crowell 10:39  

All right, let's talk about Whitney Lee. Whitney Lee is the founder of True Story. And she's a seasoned PR expert who champions authentic connections. She simplifies complex strategies, empowering business owners to navigate challenges with an effective approach.

Lesley Logan 10:55  

Okay, well, I'm gonna jump in. (Brad: Do it.) I loved some stuff. First of all, of course, I love this stuff. She said, she was giving advice about understanding your audience. And whether you are listening to this as a business owner, or listen to this as a person who is trying to like, get donation money for your nonprofit, or, I don't know, get your family to understand that you don't want to go to their house for Thanksgiving, just saying. 

Lesley Logan 11:20  

It's extremely important that you understand the audience you're trying to serve, trying to get to understand that you are the right thing for them that your way is better than the highway. Like, it's really, really important to understand them and their goals and their needs. And so she said, be very clear on who you serve. For example, if you're serving moms between 30 and 45, use that information. And especially now moms, moms today at 30 to 45 have often had two young kids. So like, if this was the 80s, my grandmother would be in this age group.

Lesley Logan 11:56  

But today, they're often like, they worked really hard. They made their money and they have having kids later. So what do these moms need? These are moms who used to have a whole life before they had kids, they actually had time to themselves. They actually, and I just watched a reel where this mom told her kids to like, draw picture of her sleeping, and then she took a nap while they're trying, like these moms have, they know what it's like to have been young and partying. And then also now not to be that so like, get information. And then if you can't find the information you're looking for, you should ask them because customers and consumers don't think the way that business owners think they're not thinking in the marketing and PR terms. So if so you can't you can't think like yourself, you have to think like them. And so sometimes just ask them, Why are you here? How did you find us? Why do you keep coming back? What is this doing for you? Like, I know that sounds weird, but it's really fun. And I often would ask my clients this, especially when they would refer me people that I'm like, How the fuck? Did this person come in my doors? So I'm like, Oh, tell me more about what you told your friend about what we do here. And then I heard like, oh, like calm and it's super relaxing. I love the coffee. And you just like you just like really helped me like think about what's going on my day. And I'm like, none of those things are things I'm proud of, like none of those things so cool. Okay. Noted. Noted. We got to shut you up. But anyways, like, it's so important. I'm joking. And also being truthful. Like.

Brad Crowell 13:27  

well, you can empower your clients with the thing to say, right you can we talk about this a lot with our with our, you know, the clients that we coach, to just explain, hey, here's what it is that we're doing here.

Lesley Logan 13:39  

Yes. And that is why you should ask people what it is you're doing there because that will let you know if you're doing a good job of that or not. And also it'll let you know, like, where did they fight? Find out your information? Like, what what was their real reason for coming in. So that's why I understand what their goals are. And even if not everyone has fitness goals, but like, Okay, but what prompted you to like actually spend the time to come here today? Like why now? What is it now? Right? So really kind of get in their head? Because that's the best way for you to meet other people like them.

Brad Crowell 14:10  

Yeah, yeah. And to get to know, you know who your actual person is. 

Lesley Logan 14:14  

Yeah. And it's not a cartoon character. This is a real person. As we know from Hillary Hartling. It's a real person. So ask real people.

Brad Crowell 14:21  

Call back, Hillary Hartling. (Lesley: Episode...) No, good luck. I don't know.

Lesley Logan 14:28  

It was December of when we launched so I'm going to say 47, 49.

Brad Crowell 14:37  

Close. 57.

Lesley Logan 14:38  

What. (Brad: Yeah) Look at me. (Brad:) If someone's listening for the first time, was like, I don't understand that's so far off. Let me just tell you I'm pretty darn close within 10 episodes most of the time. Kareen was a fluke.

Brad Crowell 14:54  

All right. All right. All right. (Lesley: What did you love?) So I really enjoyed what she was talking about operating solely on emotions versus looking at, you know, the numbers, or looking at facts is what she was talking about actually, she said, it's not about how it feels or how you feel about it. Because we often operate in that space where we're operating based off the way we feel. Right? And she said, what ends up happening is that we end up because of the way we feel we end up seeking evidence to support that feeling. Right, which can be a downward spiral, or you can be completely kidding yourself.

Lesley Logan 15:33  

Oh, yeah. We talked about this with the doctor Philippe. Philippe

Brad Crowell 15:39  

Douyon. Yes. 

Lesley Logan 15:40  

I'm not gonna be able to recall the episode we had him on twice. So there's two different numbers in my brain, but he taught there's an actual brain scientific thing for this, like cognitive, something something.

Brad Crowell 15:50  

But, but so, you know, we ended up trying to prove or disprove things based on how we feel, and not on what's happening around us what's actually happening around us. And I thought that was really interesting. You know, she she actually said something really which I thought was, she said, you have to know, when you're going down that path, and you need something. You need to be able to do something to kind of snap out of it.

Lesley Logan 16:17  

Cold water. Ice plunge. (Brad: Sure.) Hot, cold shower. (Brad: Cold shower.)

Brad Crowell 16:23  

Yeah. But I mean, she didn't mention those things. But those are options. She said when she's working with our clients, they definitely do not come up with strategies based off of feelings or hunches. Instead, they're looking at hard truths. And they're trying to find a way forward by looking at that, you know, what's happening around them.

Lesley Logan 16:44  

I think that's true. I mean, I think it's also important to acknowledge the feelings you're having and share them with people so that you can also beware of a pattern like, what, what sets off the feeling that you're having? That is opposite of what the actual facts are. So that when you are having those feelings, you can go oh, oh, hold on. This is that time, like, you got to? (Brad: Yeah) we do that around the house, when we talked about this with Chris Goodman, like, I'll, you'll just be here with me walking out on my, I'm having a fear of success, right now. I'm gonna go take a shower, like, I'm gonna go like, pause this out. But I wouldn't be able to do that today, where I like to live like go, Oh, these feelings are going to keep me from actually paying attention to what is actually happening. They're going to derail me, they're gonna make me make up products that are not for real things. So so I'm aware of that now, I wasn't aware of that before. And it took me longer to figure it out. So I actually think it's really important to acknowledge them so that you can pay attention to the hard truth, you can go seeking it out when they come up. My opinion. (Brad: Well said.)

Brad Crowell 17:53  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those be it action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo with Whitney Lee? She said, The most important thing you can do for all of y'all out there because obviously she runs a PR firm, right? So she has a bunch of clients. And the whole one thing I thought was interesting, actually, I'm just gonna throw this in here. Before the bold truth is she talked about the difference. The distinction between PR and sales. She said sales is very obviously, you're trying to generate money coming in. PR, you're trying to stay at the top of the conversation. You're trying to stay relevant. (Lesley: Yes.) And so I suppose the first time I ever heard, like that distinction.

Lesley Logan 18:33  

Also like you're creating authority, like the perception of authority, yeah. 

Brad Crowell 18:38  

Totally. But part of that staying relevant is using social media. And she said, the most important thing, if you're just getting started, is to reject this idea of what people think you are and that they, that you you try to, like put out content for what you think they need, and instead, do you think they think so. Right? And is that you should be putting out content based on you being you. Right? Authenticity, right? And this idea of authentic, you know, I feel like it's overplayed, but but the way that she talks about it, you know, it's important to just be yourself, you have to be you and what it will happen organically is that you will attract people who appreciate your vibe, your personality, your nature, your you know, bubbliness or, you know, and vice versa, you're actually going to be turning away people who just don't vibe with you in that way. And that's actually okay. Right. So she said, it has to you have to stop being overly manicured with photos and get into stories daily. And actually just be yourself in your stories. And then she said, figure out how you're different and talk about that on social media.

Lesley Logan 19:53  

Yeah. So many great reminders actually did a story of me I'm in my pajamas right now. You guys we're recording this in my pajamas. I put them on for 30 today. And then I was like, Oh, I haven't done a video in this outfit for Tabby yet. And so I was like, alright, so I did a little story. I'm like, I'm like, so I filmed two workouts, and I didn't need to change the sweaty clothes. So I put on my pajamas for 30, more like 60 to get that for the rest of the day. And I did it and they're like, Oh, we love this. You should be in pajamas all day and they shared it and I'm like, You know what? That is actually so much more fun. It really really is. It's so much easier it's so you know, we get on our heads like oh my god, what is this background look like the house, whatever. But it's like people actually just really like want to see who you really are. And it's way more fun that way. So I really love her advice there. I loved and her Be It action items to continually put yourself out there. She said it is really important to pursue opportunities too often people are waiting for the opportunities to come their way pursue them so not pitches. Gaius is in a pitch right now for earn media coverage, partnerships, speaking engagements, podcast tours, like just wherever you're wanting to be seen based on who you want to serve. So remember podcasts. If you're if your peeps are over a certain age, God bless them. They're still not here yet. We're working on it. Gaia is sending out a pitch, she's,

Brad Crowell 21:16  

She's at a certain age,

Lesley Logan 21:17  

She is a lady of a certain age, she's

Brad Crowell 21:19  

Now barking at nothing.

Lesley Logan 21:21  

Yes, she barked at a bolster today you guys should. At any rate, that is the bead accent, which I really, really love. We're just going to talk over Gaia because it's okay. She also said to offer value. And this is really, really important. So when you reach out to a podcast or by the way, if you're if you're listening to this and you're about to pitch to me, please do not tell me how amazing you are, you have to tell me how amazing what you have to share on my podcast is for my listeners. And so whenever I pitch to be on podcasts, and very specifically one like, Hey, I heard your podcast is about this, here's what I could talk about to support your listeners and your mission. So be there make sure you're very clear on like, how you actually benefit the people that you're pitching to. Because they get pitched up all day long. Of course you want them to talk about you, but they've earned that audience. So you have to make sure that you actually are supporting that that connection they have with the audience. And then she said

Lesley Logan 22:16  

the best angle, focus on giving. Educate and give without asking for anything in return it will come back to you. You know, we had Rory Vaden on last month and he is very big on this. He in fact, like he talked about how he just gave so much advice to Lisa and so many bill you that they don't have him Tom, thank you guys, that they were like we have to pay you like we actually pay you for this. So like, you have to just like focus on the service and it all comes back. That's how the world works. All right. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 22:48  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 22:48  

Thank you so much for listening to me, Brad, Gaia. And of course this podcast we're so grateful for you. Truly, really I can't believe we're about to hit the 300th episode. (Brad: I know it's kind of insane.) It's insane. Clare Solly was like do you realize I just listened to Episode 250 that means you're gonna be at 300 really quickly and I'm like oh shit, yes we are. Do we need, we will figure how to use this soundboard over here before then. Anyways, we are so grateful to you for sharing this podcast to someone you know who needs to hear it. And until next time. Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 23:18  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 23:18  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 23:18  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 23:18  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 23:18  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 23:18  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 23:18  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Uncover the keys to success in the dynamic world of marketing and PR with Lesley and Whitney. Discover actionable insights for understanding and connecting with your target audience and how you can differentiate yourself from a saturated market. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How to boost marketing skills and pick the best platform.
• Why clear target audience definitions matter and ways to get direct customer feedback.
• How to prioritize visibility and set goal benchmarks.
• The benefits of brand partnerships and capitalizing on uniqueness.
• Cultivating a problem-solving approach and avoiding emotion-led decisions.

Episode References/Links:

• Whitney Lee’s Instagram - @thewhitneylee @truestorypublicrelations
• Whitney’s True Story Public Relations Website
• True Story: The PR Podcast
• Whitney’s LinkedIn
• She Who Wins Whitney Lee episode

Guest Bio:

Whitney Lee is a marketing and PR strategy expert, the founder of True Story Public Relations - a 7-figure, award-winning agency, helping companies in the hospitality, products, and service industries thrive. Her superpower is her ability to help frustrated business owners who’ve tried it all, cut through all the noise and develop a custom strategy that actually moves the needle. 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Just because we're experts, not every single thing we do works perfectly on the first try. Hello, I jokingly say like we're like little scientists, like we make a hypothesis based off of our education and our experience. And then we try out the hypothesis. And then we see what happens and we tweak from there. You know, like, it's okay, if everything you do, it's not going to, I'm going to go ahead and make that like clear statement, not everything you do is going to work on the first try. And most of the time, it's not going to work on the first try. But the difference is they're just people who push through and keep trying. 

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 

Lesley Logan 0:04  

All right loves, so today's guest I'm so excited about. First of all, I'm more excited than my voice sounds. I don't know why it's gone. Always gonna Be It Till You See It for this whole intro. I have one of my dear friends on her name is Whitney Lee, she is phenomenal. She's such a badass bitch. And I, I just love being around her. I love the conversations I have. I love how honest and vulnerable she is. And she doesn't, she's she, what I love about what she does in her life is that she doesn't take things that happened in her business personally, she really truly is like, let's look at the facts. And let's make these things happen. And I love that as an inspiration to all of us, whether it is a business that you're listening to this podcast for, or your or a personal goal, the things that are happening to us are not personal attacks on us. They are just interesting obstacles for us to get some information from and move forward. And so when you get to this part of the conversation, that's going to come about feelings, I hope that you stop, listen, rewind, pay attention again. She's fucking phenomenal. And and so today I had her on because I love talking to PR people because they are like an ultimate be it till you see it when it comes to business. But she also has such honest advice that you can use to create your own PR and be your own self. And if you remember from Hillary Heartlines episode about branding that even if you're not a business, you are a brand because it's how you leave people feeling. If you listen to that episode and this one back to back, babe, I think you're gonna have a great fucking day. So here is Whitney Lee. 

Lesley Logan 1:32  

Hey, Be It babe. So I'm super excited. This can be a fun conversation with a friend. I'm so happy to have met. We have a lot of friends in common many who've you've heard on the podcast before. Whitney Lee, we actually met at She Who Wins. She has a PR company called True Story. And she's just phenomenal at what she does. But we met at the She Wins Conference, which is like a bunch of amazing women. And you're just I went to your workshop and you're just a delight about PR and making it so accessible. So I had to have you on because I wanted to share your amazingness with our listeners, can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? 

Whitney Lee 2:28  

Hey, friend, thanks for having me. My name is Whitney Lee, So, my company is True Story. We've been in business about 10 years now. So we do a lot of PR we also do social, social media paid and organic. We do a lot of email funnels. But honestly, like, at the end of the day, what I would say our superpower is is like business owners are so overwhelmed with all this crap that they see. Should I be doing email marketing, text messages, Google ads, billboards? Should I have my own podcast, they get so overwhelmed with all these different, I should be doing this to promote my business, we help kind of like, bust through all of that and just say no, no, here are the things you need to focus on. And let's crush these things. So for some clients, we're actually their team, we're the ones executing for them. And then other clients, especially some of the smaller businesses that we work with, we just build a plan for them. And we teach their team how to take it and run with it. So

Lesley Logan 3:26  

Freaking so cool. I mean, like, I love, there's a lot of things I love, first of all, 10 years is an it's like a lifetime, in a in a business like that. Not everyone makes it to 10 years. So congratulations. That's humongous. (Whitney: Thank you.) but also, what an interesting 10 years it's been to be in the PR industry. And like I imagine the things you guys have had evolved to do because PR has changed so much. And just these last 10 years, you know, going from like doing the, you know, death sides and all the different things with the magazines to actually like we can create our own PR without using any of these outlets. So what muscle you had to learn?

Whitney Lee 4:05  

Oh my gosh, well, you know, I always say like, you know, some people go to school to become this or you know, like a nurse or this or that. And once they learn the skill, they have it forever, right. But like, this is the one job that I see that like, if you don't continue to learn, like you'll literally be out of date in three months, and you'll just be clueless. So it's like continually pushing us to like learn new stuff and to stay on the edge of everything. But I mean, that's what makes it fun, right?

Lesley Logan 4:32  

Yeah, yeah. And I think like, what you just said, might someone be like, Oh, my God, you're right. If I don't do this, in three months, I don't even know how to use that app anymore. And it's like, what's so great is you're like, hi, we actually will tell you if you need to use that app. We we've done the stress for you.

Whitney Lee 4:48  

Yep, and half the time that's what we see is like people that are doing all the things but they're just in the wrong places. It's always one of two things like they're either putting their message out in the wrong place and they're actual their people aren't in that in that zone like you're, you're doing, you know, social media, but you're, you know, Avatar is a 65-year-old man. Okay? You missed the mark. So they're either in the wrong place, or they're just saying the wrong thing. And people aren't clear on what they do or what they serve. You know how they serve some. 

Lesley Logan 5:17  

Oh my god. Okay, so yes, I love we just dove right in. So I want to highlight it's true, a lot of people are in the wrong place for the person to hear them. Or they're in the right place, but their messaging is wrong. So half, I guess, like, how, how do people the obvious thing is like, just go where people are, but like, how do you have to, how do you find where people are? Like that's so people, it seems like people are everywhere, and everyone's on Tiktok, but actually Tiktok is not for everybody business to be on, like, let's just be real. So like, how do you find out where people are?

Whitney Lee 5:50  

Oh, my gosh, well, I think it just comes down to like, being really clear on who you serve, you know, if you serve moms that are between the ages of 30 and 45. Like there's so many demographic information out there that can tell you like where those women are, you know, and also like, I'm a huge believer in just asking people, like, you know, asking the people that you're already serving, like, how they heard about you where they found you, sometimes it is literally that simple. I think I just tell people, I'm like, you have to remember that, like, customers, and consumers don't think the way we do as like marketing and PR people. For example, like we used to have a functional medicine practice. And people would go in and we train their front desk, people to say, How did you hear about us? And all the people would always say, Oh, well, Google, Google's had heard about you. But that's not necessarily true. What it is, is that they saw the billboard, they saw a social media ad, and then they Googled to get the phone number or the address in their mind. Oh, I found you on Google, because they found your phone number on Google, but they didn't. What we're trying to get to the bottom of is like, where did you first hear that we existed? You know, like, where all of a sudden, did you hear about us originally? Not where did you get my phone number or my address? Yeah. Did you originally hear from me? It was at a friend that told you about it? Did you see my billboard? And then Google me like sometimes it's kind of hard to get into the brain of a consumer.

Lesley Logan 7:19  

Yeah. You that's, I mean, like, first of all, I love that you're just like, I just ask people like, it's, it's that simple. But also like, really making sure the question is very specific, like, where did you first hear about me? You know, that actually, like, I was like, we were doing all this stuff. Just trying to get more people to hear about our online membership for Pilates and everything. And finally, I was just like, everyone just finds us on YouTube. What are we doing on YouTube to make it actually better? Because if everyone's following us on YouTube, and then they're somehow making their way to Instagram, and then they're somehow making the way the list? What if we just like shorten that up? So we've made YouTube our bigger focus versus like, other any other social media platform, they're there. They like, definitely highlight the experience in there and additive there. But like, it's like doubling down on where people actually find you. The first time is going to be for us, I think, the most effective use of our time. 

Whitney Lee 8:12  

Well, and I would love to know, well, here's the kicker, too. If someone truly did find us on Google or find you on YouTube, I would say what did you search? (Lesley: Ooh, yeah) that is kind of the key. And then they're like, Oh, well, I was searching like, I was looking for this one Pilates machine. Or I you know, I went to a class and I didn't understand this machine. So I got on YouTube and typed in reformer. And then you'll start to learn like, what are the words? What are the words? 

Lesley Logan 8:39  

Oh my gosh. Whitney, how did you even get started in PR because everyone's gonna kind of like people love to know like, what's the journey? Like, were you like growing up? Like, oh my god, I'm gonna be Emily in Paris or Okay, so but like, what was the, what was the step? What was the journey?

Whitney Lee 8:59  

I'm about to go throwback here for a moment before Emily in Paris was even born, okay. We were all watching Sex in the City, right, in like the 90s. And they are like (Lesley: Oh my God, yes. Kim Cattrall's character.) Yeah, of course. Yeah. Samantha had her own PR agency. And it's so funny because I say like, that's what people think we do all day. Like, I just wear these fancy bright colored fun business suits. And I just flood around town and drink martinis. And I go to parties every night and I just meet people and that's my job. Like, people think that's legitimately what PR people do. No, honestly, like, I really don't know how I got into PR specifically, I went to school for communication because it was really broad. And I was like, I know I could take that and do that with a lot of things. People used to tell me all the time that I should be like a news girl. (Lesley: I could see that.) What's funny is I ended up I did end up hosting my own show like my own, like local news show for several years, but it, so I got into communication because I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And it just kind of spiraled. Actually I went, I did grad school I did undergrad at Southern Miss. And then I did grad school at Florida State and one of my professors, he was a PR consultant and like, his clients were like Cindy Crawford. And, I mean, he was like, 70 years old at the time. So like, and also I was in grad school, like over 10 years ago. So he's much older. But he represented Cindy Crawford, that was like his biggest client. And he uses, he opened my eyes to what the heck a consultant was. And I was like, that's so cool. Just the idea that he had all these different clients. So one day, he's talking literally about Xerox machines, and helping Xerox get their name out there. And then the next day, he's dealing with Cindy Crawford, you know, like, it was just so interesting. I know, right? It was just so interesting to me that like, you didn't just go to a desk and sit there all day and like, crunch out, you know, information. So after grad school, I got my start in the hotel world. And that's really honestly kind of where the agency leans most now is like, just from my connections in that world, as a lot of hospitality clients, a lot of people think hospitality and they think hotels, but like, it's a lot of food and beverage. So we have like a group of Indian restaurants. We have a chain of burger joints, we have several different hotels, we have a huge shopping center. You know, and we also have a medical marijuana practice. So like, it's pretty interesting. We're I, you know, for the most part, we have a lot of hospitality clients, but we do have, you know, a few other, you know, we've done retail, like clothing lines and things like that. So it's really fun. And every day is different.

Lesley Logan 11:45  

Yeah, like, there's not a day that's the same. So yeah, maybe sometimes you're at an event living your Samantha life, but most of the time, you're like in an office, trying to help people get their message out there. That's really what 

Whitney Lee 11:57  

Yeah. And really, like I said, you know, people think of PR, and they like don't even get it. They think it's like, Samantha out giggling and drinking martinis. But the whole if I had to sum it down into one word, like PR is visibility. (Lesley: Yeah.) Like, how do you get your name out there in a creative way, and get it to the right people with the right message. And, and people always think that marketing and PR are the same thing. They're totally not. (Lesley: Right.) Like marketing, the point, the goal of marketing is sales, the goal of PR, is visibility, more followers, you know, like, more clicks more, you know, that's the point of PR. So I have to tell all of our clients coming into it. Like, you're not sometimes you're not going to be able to equate, like, Oh, we got a feature on the Today's Show. And then you're not going to overnight, sell a million dollars worth of products, like, sometimes that will happen and we've had that happen for clients, not necessarily to the date. That's Today's Show. But the whole point of PR is to consistently stay out there in the right light, you know.

Lesley Logan 13:06  

Well, like, you're right. So like, I got, I got a call in 2013. It was like, hey, congratulations, your Los Angeles best Pilates instructor for LA magazine. Like we we chose you. And I was like, Oh, I thought people paid for that. I thought someone's be our first and got them that gig. And they're like, no, no, you you're it so we're gonna put you in this thing it's in the best best issued cup of this party was so fun. And I had people go oh my god, you're in yet so many clients from this you guys. I'm gonna tell you right now. I got zero. I got no client, however, but you know of that I know that I know of. You're right. You're absolutely right. However, I do know that I got to say last I'm like, I'm best voted Best Pilates instructor in Los Angeles by the LA magazine, the PR that came from that the the there's like notoriety. There's some there's some stuff that we can use from that. But it wasn't it's not like the marketing that I do where like we actually like I intentionally promoted my classes, you know, where that would be the difference? In the two things right there. So I, I guess I want to know, I'm very curious. Because it takes a special person to do a job, where every day is different. And everything that you do, doesn't exactly like always look like what you did here, equated to this over here. So you show up every day, and do this amazing, very essential job for people knowing that like you're kind of having to sell yourself to them all the time. Because for especially for a small business, it's not it's a lot of money for them to consider. Like I wanted to hear this answer just because I think a lot of people don't realize like everything that we do is like selling our dream to the people that are around us. So um, you have a very unique job or you have to do this all the time.

Whitney Lee 14:53  

Yeah, and it's just always being creative. So I think you just have to what I remind our clients is like we call them benchmarks, right? Like in in marketing, it's like your benchmark is like, how many click throughs did you get how many sales? Did you get? What was your return on investment? Like, how much did you spend on the ad versus what did you sell in advance? Or what did you sell, but PR, I think we just have to create different goals and stay on, on track that, like the goals for PR are just different. You know, the goal is to establish yourself as an expert, right? That's what that that award did for you. It's an immediate, like, people are like, wow, I'll give you an example. So we're working with an international client that sells I would say like party supplies for the most part, so they have like party and like they sell like gift bags and and notebooks and markers and pens and things like that to like Joanne and Michaels. So their social media and PR, our goal is not to sell more markers. Our goal is to get their name out so much that the buyers for those companies are like, whoa, have you heard of those new glitter pens? Like they're everywhere, they're listed here, they're listed there this influencer's using them, like we need these glitter pens in our store. So like, it's a totally different, you know, like, not a single one of our social media posts is going to be like, buy this pen now. Link in bio. No, the whole point of it is to elevate and get people talking about that product so much that the buyers at Michaels, the buyers at Hobby Lobby are like oh my god, I keep seeing this stuff everywhere. We have to sell these, we have to sell these.

Lesley Logan 16:39  

Right because like, I mean before the pandemic I used to hear would take seven to 17 touchpoints before anyone click on anything. So now that's like probably, it's probably like 35 So you're like just like being everywhere, omnipresent with a product or a mission or a restaurant so that people go oh, that thing I need to have that thing. Let's go get that that thing.

Whitney Lee 16:59  

I've or it's like a qualifier. You know, like when somebody thinks about your business or whatever, they go scope you out, right? That's the first thing you do is like when someone hears about something, they Google it, and they're like, Okay, I just need to scope this, this brand or this business out. So they probably Googled you and they're like, damn, okay, she was LA's top, she was L.A. what was it?

Lesley Logan 17:20  

L.A.'s Best Pilates instructor in Los Angeles. 

Whitney Lee 17:22  

Yeah, she was L.A.'s Best Pilates Instructor and immediately in their brain, you are legitimate. Yeah, whether what's sad and some of it you have to be careful because some of this PR stuff can be totally fake, is that somebody could pay for an award like that, that unfortunately, that does exist. But it's an immediate qualifier in that person's brain, whether they know if you paid for it or not. You know, they're the immediate qualifier is like, she's legit. You know, and so that's a lot of, you know, PR's like reputation, visibility. Okay, I haven't heard another so partnerships and sponsorships. We do a lot of this. I saw recently. Okay, so Skims has bathing suits, right, anybody who's out there listening, Kim Kardashian's brand Skims, they do bathing suits, and they just did a partnership with Body Glove if anybody remembers Body Glove from the 90s remember the baby suit brand that has a zipper all the way (Lesley: Yes, yes.) So the body gland body glove has kind of been out for a while right? It was a thing in the 90s and it was cool back then. But it's not really super relevant now. Well, whoever is their freakin PR person is a genius because they went to Skims they got a partnership with skims skins is all hot now. And I guarantee Body Glove is going to be a thing again now. It's like this whole partnership is blowing up they did a collab and now it's like Body Glove suddenly is back on the scene. (Lesley: Yeah) and I guarantee their whole brand is about to be revived. Just thanks to like this collab that they did you know. 

Lesley Logan 18:56  

So and so I love this because the what you're you keep focusing on is like, being out in front of the people with the with the with with what you're doing and not trying to sell to them just trying to be like show almost like show off like show off how these glitter pens work like show like, oh, look (Whitney: Show who they are.) Look how cool Body Glove is. They're friends with Skims, you know, like that kind of a thing. So, I guess I want to say like, I talk a lot about collaborating. When we business coach. I'm like, just like you've guys have no idea how many clients I got by teaching at NARS. Like, who would have thought NARS NARS big makeup company like oh, yeah, you can come teach Pilates in our store. But we did I did it all the time was so much fun. And because my clients while I was like my, my client, my lady, she wears makeup like, right like she's gonna be at the cool place. So how do you work with? How do you consider like, who to collaborate with? Is it always like who's the hottest on the market? Or is it more like what's what are you guys? What's the criteria you look at to make sure someone's a good partner?

Whitney Lee 19:59  

Exactly what you just said, so like, you know who your woman is so well, right? You know, the woman that's doing Pilates. And you also know that she's a makeup girl, you know, she's probably also a hair girl and a nails girl, like, you know, you know who your person is. And all you have to do is find other brands that they are that mean, that's like literally a perfect example and other brands and other products or other services that aren't competitive to you necessarily. But you know that that person also uses that, you know, so like, gosh, if I was Lululemon, I would be out partnering with some mom brand, every mom, you know, they're all wearing Lululemon, you know, like, go out and partner with some mom brand of anything. I mean, I'm not a mom. So I don't really necessarily know all the brands and businesses that moms use, but done that that's a great partnership right there. So I think it just goes back to like being clear, really clear on who your person is. And not just how they use your product, but the other things, the other aspects of their life. And then you hit them in those other angles. And just like you said, it's so key is like, it's not all people don't want to be sold stuff all the time. Just show up and serve. And, and let them meet you and see who you are and see your personality and see what you stand for. And the people that align with that will immediately be drawn to you. And I guarantee they'll be even more drawn to you by the fact that you didn't try to cram something down their throat.

Lesley Logan 21:31  

Yeah. So something that I I'm, I know that like some of our listeners, we think it's like, yeah, I get that guys, but like, I'm, I don't know that what makes me like uniquely different like we have, there's this thing about our women, a lot of women, they have a hard time identifying their unique differences. Is this something that you talk about with the businesses that you work with? Like, are there key? Are there things that you look at? You're like that makes you different than you know what you can't read the label inside the bottle, so you can be a fairly confident person and still go. I don't like to be different from these people over here.

Whitney Lee 22:03  

Yeah, I don't know if you are the one who taught me that saying I literally said that on another podcast like a week ago about like, you can't see the label inside the bottle. And they were like, That's genius. And I was like, I can't take credit for that because someone else told me that. So I don't know if it was you. 

Lesley Logan 22:19  

But someone definitely told it to me too, because I was probably in a moment where I'm like, I don't understand it like well, you can't read the label inside the bottle. So it's a good saying everyone should like remember it. 

Whitney Lee 22:29  

Yes. And now I totally forgot. So we were talking about 

Lesley Logan 22:32  

Oh, like how to figure out like what makes you uniquely different for the person who's like stuck in the bottle. They're like, also they're like imposter syndrome. They see like these other brands over here like what makes me different than them. It's so funny to me. I'm getting inside my own question, but maybe this will help. In my neighborhood. There are four coffee shops, locally owned coffee shops, four of them. They are two across the street from each other. The other two one is down the street, one block and the othe's around the block. So like to me these four business owners are like there's enough there's enough to go around we can each have a coffee shop and they're all different like one a little bit more Cuban one definitely is like a bit more like a like a Dunkin Donuts it's a little clinical and there it's like not super exciting. Then there's one that like they are their signature latte is cardamom or the other one. The signature latte is Rosemary. Right? It's very strange. One is very hip to working. So like they eat for like, how do I be uniquely different person we all are? They're all doing lattes. Yeah, but they all are serving a different clientele. One is very hipster. One is very punk. One is very businesslike. Right. So I think that that's really easy. They can totally highlight who they were talking to. But when I work with people who work for themselves, they are their own business, I find that the hardest thing to get them to understand is that there's a unique difference to them. Because it's all like they it's almost like they're bragging or something like art, something like that. So I'm just wondering, like, how do you highlight? Or how do you figure out what that is to highlight with this with someone? 

Whitney Lee 24:00  

Yeah, and you know what we talked about this sometimes in brandbuilders group too of like, I'm not the first PR person to ever exist. But there's something different about the way that I deliver it, or there's something different about my personality or my angle or my way of thinking I watch Shark Tank all the time. I'm such a nerd. It's just so interesting to me. And I felt like I learned so much about business. So Mark Cuban used to say like you're either the first, you're the best, or you're different. So am I the first PR person? No, not never. Am I the best? Well, of course we all think we're the best and unless you have an award, you know, if you have an award, definitely put that out there to show you're the best but if you're different, how do you portray that you're different and I think even some of that can go back to like talking to the people that you serve now. Like what made you pick me over some other PR person or you know, and also just really getting to know like what is your superpower? You know? So for me, what I like recognizes is that I think my superpower is like taking things that are really complicated. And making it super approachable and easy for people to understand. You know, even like when I spoke at She Who Wins, like, when I speak in front of people, it's not my, my goal was not to make everybody in the crowd think I'm smart, Ooh, hoo, cool. My goal is for everyone in the audience to like, walk away with something that they're like, Wow, I can actually do this or like, Wow, it's really not that complicated. So I would say that my superpower, again, there are so many great publicists out there. But I have such a good way of making things so simple for people where they don't feel stupid, they don't feel overwhelmed. They know exactly what the point is. And it's simple to them. So you know, again, sometimes it's not always the service that you're doing is different. It's your way of thinking about it, or your way of delivering it is different to people. And some people just jive. You know, like, you know, some people meet me and my personality, either totally jives with them, or it totally is like, not their thing, you know, and sometimes it just boils down to like personality and connection. 

Lesley Logan 26:14  

Yeah. I really like that you broke down like you're the first year the best or you're different. I think like that is that's an I've really highlighted because like, not the first place instructor. Yes, I was the best in L.A. for who they and I did not buy that. I was like, I really did think that people like pay for those things. And that issue, maybe people do, but they actually did come to my class. I looked at my receipt and was like, Oh, this is the person. Okay. I saw the email. I was like, ah, but I'm not. So yes, maybe voted the best. But like, I'm a classical Pilates instructor, which means I teach the same exercise, it just applies to it. So here like, I like how do I differentiate myself, in a world where like, I literally am teaching the same thing that someone has been doing for for a century, right? So so so I, you know, in our companies, we make things colorful, we're very much about being not being perfect. And then we use, we use like, 80s, 90s stuff, like we make ourselves extremely different than what was perceived for the longest time. It's like a classical Pilates world, which is like everyone wears all black. Everyone's a dancer. Yeah, no offense to the dancers, or people who wear all black, it's totally fine. You can be different that way. But for us, it's how we differentiate ourselves. Because it was the only way to stand out in a market where like, there's people who like, clearly have been teaching this for 30, 40 years, so I'm not gonna ever I can't compete with that.

Whitney Lee 27:37  

Yeah, yeah. And you're not the most experienced, you're, you know, and sometimes it also comes down to like, the way you package or price things. It's hard. Sometimes it's hard for me to like make generalities, because we don't know the people listening to this about like, what business and industry they're in. But sometimes it can be the pricing, maybe you are the most luxurious and the most expensive, you know, or maybe you are the most cost effective. Or maybe you don't make people commit to X amount of time. Maybe you I mean, there's like so many different differentiators. So I think, you know, I think it's people have mixed feelings about looking at their competitors. And I don't say to look at them to spy on them or copy them, but look at them to see how they're structuring things and to see you something many times you will immediately see how you are different than them just by looking at what other people in the industry do.

Lesley Logan 28:28  

Yeah, well, I mean, like, if you look at Dry Bar, right? In the industry, she was in, everyone went for a cut, color and a blowout, like you didn't just go for a blowout. So she's like, well, we're just gonna do blowouts, like, that's all we're gonna do. Like she differentiated in that way. There's like places where normally people have to do memberships. So there's been businesses where they differentiate, like, you don't have to do a membership, you can pay a drop it like we that's how we're different. So I think it is like looking at them to understand what they're doing. And then figure out like, how you how what you the way you offer it, the way you package it, like you said, is the most unique thing. And then, and then like what we hear from our coach would be (inaudible) deal it's like and then exploit that in the goodness of others.

Whitney Lee 29:05  

Yeah, exploit it and talk about it and share it because to someone out there, that is a different that is a defining factor, or that is something that's going to cause them to take action. 

Lesley Logan 29:18  

Yeah. Yeah. So Okay. Um, when you were starting your own PR company, which is a very big deal, like, I mean, it's not the easiest thing to start your own company. Was, was there ever. Was there anything that you had to like, tell yourself or is there anything that you did to like, make it easier for you to show up every day and be new at something like how it was the beginning days, 10 years ago for you?

Whitney Lee 29:40  

Oh, my gosh, I remember making my own website, and I felt so dumb. And I was like, oh my god, this is so homemade. You know, we're very critical of everything we do ourselves. I was also really young. I was in my 20s. And I remember going to like chamber events and young professional events and people would ask me what I would do and I felt so stupid, saying like, Oh, I'm Whitney and I do PR. Like, I had to, like train myself with my little elevator speech. And I used to tell myself all the time, like, people my age were like, oh, cool, okay, you're trying to do your own thing cute. But people like older people, I kept telling myself like, they don't take me seriously. Like, and sometimes it was because the things that people would say to me like, Oh, you have your own company. That's so cute, like a little Facebook company. Or people would call me like, Oh, she's a little Facebook girl. That's a, that's what she does. And I'm like, No, that's not at all. I mean, that's a part of what we do is social media strategy, but like, don't call me the Facebook girl, you know, like, but over time, like I just my, like, impostor syndrome for a while, would like tell me like, people don't take me seriously, because I'm in my 20s. Like, someone for some reason I thought someone in their 20s can't own their own business. So when I turned 30, I finally was like, Yeah, people are gonna, like, respect me now. And like,

Lesley Logan 31:06  

That's funny the stories we tell us now that I'm 30. Now they'll respect my business. Change overnight. 

Whitney Lee 31:12  

Yeah, suddenly, I'm 30. So I'm legit, like, but also like, I needed to look back because they were hiring me in my 20s. So obviously, if they signed a contract with me and gave me money, they took me seriously, right? So I always tell people, you got to, like get out of a space of like, operating based off your feelings all the time. And you just got to look at the facts, you know. And, I mean, I'm not saying not to have fields and all that kind of stuff. But like, especially as women, we most women operate based off of emotion and how they're feeling that day. And I am kind of a little bit of the opposite. And the fact that like, when I think or feel something, I immediately start looking for facts to prove or disprove what's happening in my brain. You know, and I just was grasping, yeah, I try to grasp on to the facts instead of feelings, because we're gonna have all kinds of feelings, I'm feeling hungry, I'm feeling tired, I'm feeling jacked up from all this caffeine I just had, all those are just feelings, and those are going to go away within a few hours, a few days, a few weeks, or whatever. But like facts are facts. So you've got to and I even say this about the business, like we don't operate our strategies, we don't come up with strategies off of feelings. Like I feel like this is a good idea for you to do this partnership. No, I look at the facts of like, who is their audience? Who is their database reaching? Oh, their database is reaching women that do this, this and this perfect that that is a good partnership. So like, we gotta get out of the space of like, get out of our head sometimes and stop operating off of feelings. And like, sometimes we'll come up with facts. Those aren't facts, you know what I mean? Like, look for the true facts. And and you got to, you know, just be self-conscious, aware, you gotta be aware of your thoughts enough to know that they're just thoughts.

Lesley Logan 33:05  

Yeah, I really, really love what you said there. I think, like, rewind, and listen to that again, like, because I do, I think, like, obviously, there's gut instinct, or there's like this intuition. That's really amazing. But especially if your feelings are like, Oh my god, I'm not good at this. It's like, hold up, now you're gonna start making posts, or you're gonna start doing this, or you're not gonna do anything at all based on this feeling. And your business is going to suffer or you're going to attract different people than you want it because you use your feeling instead of going. Actually, fact are even when I was 20, and feeling impostor syndrome, people are giving me money. So I must have been pretty fucking good. Because people did that. So I can't go off of the feeling like, Oh, I'm just this 20 something PR person, I have to go off of the fact that like, no people paid me to do it. So I was good. You know, so I really liked that. Because I always have this Fuck Yeah Friday thing where like, here at the podcast, I share people's wins. And then I share a win of my own, and I would love people to have a Fuck Yeah every day. Maybe we'll make a journal everyone because I think if you like put your wins of the day in, right you like actually keep track of things. You have facts to go back upon. When you're having those feelings like this isn't working, nothing's working. I actually go back and look like I look at our analytics for the website, traffic every week. I look at our analytics of newsletter open rates and click rates every week. 

Whitney Lee 34:25  

I am so proud of you. That's like stuff we beg our clients to look at. We're like look at these really cool numbers. And they're like

Lesley Logan 34:31  

I couldn't stop myself from looking right away. Because I'm like, we drop a new YouTube video and I'm like, Hold on how many? It's like, no, gotta let it do the 24-hour thing. You gotta wait a second. But like, I do look at those things because it is the only way to combat the feelings because on any given moment of the day, do you work as a human being who's not a narcissist. I'm going to have a moment I'm like, nothing's working. Nothing is working. This isn't working. It's like well actually, no, all of these things are working. Look at the look at these stats right here. And also, if one of those stats was low, the open rates would have dropped down. Okay? What happened? When did they start dropping off? What did we do? What? Like, what what did we do before that could work? Because I have the facts. So I don't have to let the emotions I'm feeling like nothing is working. Rule of the business, nobody, we wouldn't be able to keep a team if my feelings ran this business.

Whitney Lee 35:20  

Exactly. And that's why, like, you know, it's like, I think the worst thing you can do is just to hide from it. You know, like, whenever I go on vacation, and I come back, like, I will not get on the scale, because I'm like, Oh, I feel disgusting. Until a few days later, when I can, like detox it out. But like, sometimes it's good to just know the truth and be like, hey, our email rate is dropping, and like, what can we do to fix this? Rather than like, being so fearful of looking at the number because you don't want to see the hard truth? Like, it's okay. Like, put on your big girl panties? Like, look at the hard truth. And, and then that's when you can actually figure out a way forward.

Lesley Logan 35:57  

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's like, yeah, there are there. Like the days we were like, I don't wanna look at the bank account, because I just went shopping.

Whitney Lee 36:04  

Oh, my God, yes. That's a better example of the scale. When you're like, What is my statement balance gonna be today?

Lesley Logan 36:12  

That was, that was less than I calculated. But like, when you are aware of these things you can actually make, you can actually make decisions. This morning, the time of recording this, we had a team meeting. And our team is all around the world. So we had to do at 6am. And I'm like I'm doing on the dogwalk guys, because like, I can't sit in front of a computer at six in the morning. That is, like, if we're going to interrupt my morning routine, I gotta be on my morning routine. So we're doing this walk. And it was so much easier to have a team meeting, knowing. In the past last time around this event, here are the mistakes that we notated that we made that we want to fix for the next time. Here are the ideas we had last time here, like all this information, is it's just it's key data that allows us to make the decision like these are I mean, it's a guessing game, we are guessing that these are the best dates to open cart for earlybird. We are guessing that this is the best time to do this thing, even though it's a holiday in the middle of that, like, it's all guessing. But based on data from the past, we know people will open up these emails at least 60% of the time we know these things. So we can make those decisions and not feel like I hope it works.

Whitney Lee 37:19  

Oh my gosh, well, you know, I tell our clients that too that like not every single thing we do just because we're experts, not every single thing we do works perfectly on the first try. Hello, I jokingly say like we're like little scientists, like we make a hypothesis based off of our education and our experience. And then we try out the hypothesis. And then we see what happens and we tweak from there. You know, like, it's okay, if everything you do, it's not going to I'm going to go ahead and make that like clear statement, not everything you do is going to work on the first try. And most the time, it's not going to work on the first try. But the difference is they're just people who push through and keep trying. Whereas other people just throw their hands in the air and say like, This must not be a fit for me. This must not be it.

Lesley Logan 38:03  

Yeah, you're so right. Also, if it works on the first try, you actually don't really it's kind of hard to to recreate that sometimes it's a little easier if it works. Okay, like our first launch with our coaching program. It was it was it was great. It was great for us we'd like had the biggest launch we've ever had. It was if we did those numbers today, I think we'd cry but like, it was, it was it was good. And we're like, Okay, our mutual friend Keri, she's like, You guys should do that thing again. So we did it again. And it tripled, right? Because we had information from the first time to like, oh, okay, we did this last time. Are there tweaks I want to make? Okay, let's do let's oh, let's do these things. Let's pull, let's pull the dial on this a little sooner. Let's, this probably didn't do anything. And we had a survey as well. Like you said earlier, ask questions. We had a survey. So we did it again. The third time we did it, it did not go well. And we're like, oh, well, what was what was different about this third time? And what we it's an experiment all we could really actually figure out like we did in the summer. Like yeah, that's (Whitney: I was just about to say timing) timing. Like, we didn't mess up our thing, which is like hard for people who are small business owners who have kids and most of the people in our industry have a family for them to get away from for a week. They might be on a holiday that week, right? Like so. So it's like when you repeat things, you're able to really understand what worked what didn't work. And like again, you're right when some if something didn't work, if we guess like if we had this goal of like 50 grand on time one and we only did the money we did. We've been like up that didn't work. It's like well, actually, it how do you know it didn't work? It's until you try it again. So I think that it's true. Like you can't just give up and try new things all the time because you just won't actually know.

Whitney Lee 39:45  

Yeah, and you also have to just change just a little bit like you have to. It is literally like a scientific experiment. If you change like six different things and something different happens the second time you're not going to know which one of those six things made the difference. You are like you got to have a control.

Lesley Logan 40:00  

Yes, yes, yes, I mean, so true. It's the same thing like when I teach people a Pilates session like, I'm not going to give you an entirely new session the next time because if you tell me Oh, I like hurt here or actually has a little more sore here, I'm not going to what? I'm not going to know what was what was the thing was different. But if I only added five new exercises and go, Okay, well, there's only five different ones that we did. So like, let's look at these five, it makes it so much easier. Oh my god, we can just keep going. I fucking love you.

Whitney Lee 40:25  

Like, we're talking about PR, but we're also talking about science and neuro pathways. And I think there's a lot of science and, and a lot of psychology, I have people on my team that have a degree in psychology because it is very much so a psychology of like, how to get into someone's, you know, life and brain and, and speak to them and what, what motivates people to do what you know, so like, there's a lot of psychology to it, which is why I always say like, PR is not hard. It's not it's not freakin rocket science. Anybody can do it, anybody can. But the differences is like, just A) connections and relationships go a long, long way. And B) that just the repetitive of trying and failing, trying and succeeding, like, you know, that's the world of PR.

Lesley Logan 41:18  

Okay, we're gonna have to have you back at some point to just talk more, because you're just a brilliant wealth of knowledge. Maybe we'll have a panel with all the amazing women who've been on the show. (Whitney: That'd be awesome.) So fun. So I want to take a brief moment and have to find out how people can find you follow you work with you and your Be It Action items. 

Lesley Logan 41:35  

Okay, Whitney, where do you like to hang out? Where can people learn more? See if the that's the right fit to work with you or just follow you for amazing advice.

Whitney Lee 41:43  

Yeah, okay, so um, if you want to find the agency, check out truestorypr.co - not .com -truestorypr.co. Also, we have our own podcast, which you can go and listen to my episode with Lesley, it's True Story the PR Podcast. So it's a cool mixture of just marketing and PR PR advice, but also like hearing people with really cool stories and brands and how they got to where they are today. So check us out on the podcast, you can find True Story on all the social media platforms. But if you want to connect with me personally, on Instagram on The Whitney Lee, T-H-E Whitney Lee, or you can find me on LinkedIn. It's Whitney Lee.

Lesley Logan 42:20  

I love it. So we'll also put all that in the show notes. We'll to put the episode links on your podcast in the show notes because it's so fun. Okay, you have given us amazing tips already. So so if I would love for the you know, bold, executable, intrinsic target steps people can take to Be It Till You See It. What are some action steps people can take today?

Whitney Lee 42:38  

Okay, I would definitely say start showing up on social media. I think everybody says that. So that's kind of a lame one. But definitely showing up on social media authentically. Stop it with the overly manicured photos like get in your stories on the daily like, figure out what how you're different and talk about that on social media. It's more about storytelling than anything. Um, action items, I would definitely say talk to the people if you're a business owner, talk to the people that you're already serving. That is probably the number one thing and find out why they chose you where they heard about you all these valuable things. People will absolutely tell you their opinion. You just have to ask and sometimes people tell you before asking but you just have to ask and you have to ask the right questions. So I think some of the most low-hanging fruit is just truly talking to the people that you already serve and the people who love you. So I think that would be number two and number three I would say put yourself out there you know like that is all that PR is like we we send out pitches on pitches on pitches all day for earned media coverage for partnerships for speaking engagements for podcast tours, is you have to just continually put yourself out there because good things will come to you even when you don't even realize what you're what you're gonna generate is just like consistently putting yourself out there so it just depends on your your brand or your business but even if it's reaching out to 10 different podcasts and saying like here's the value I can provide to your audience. It's not about you don't lead into it with I am a best-selling author I am a this I'm a that it's like here's what I can share with your audience. So I always say educate and give without asking for anything in return is the the best angle to go at it. From the get go and it will come back to you. It's a long game. It is not going to be overnight. But it will come back to you.

Lesley Logan 44:44  

I love all of those Whitney. I again could just talk to you forever. We're gonna have to have a coffee date or a happy hour on Zoom. I miss your face. Guys, how are you going to use these action items in your life? Tag Whitney Lee, checkout True Story Podcast and let us know what your favorite takeaways were, what were the things that inspired you, what got in your head that makes you go oh yeah I mean I love the feeling, I'm so all about that. So, Whitney, thank you so much and everyone else until next time. Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 45:08  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 45:08  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 45:08  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 45:08  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 45:08  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 45:08  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Dive into Lesley's inspiring journey from anxiety to a rejuvenated day through self-care and positivity. Celebrate incredible wins from listeners like Tiffany and Susan, showcasing the magic of a positive outlook in today’s FYF episode.  

In this episode you will learn about:

• Why indulging in small pleasures can make a big difference in your day.
• How to find silver linings and opportunities for growth in challenging situations.
• Why searching for evidence of positivity can transform your outlook and improve your day.

Mentions:

• Tiffany Lodes
• Susan Nash

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

Get your free Athletic Greens 1 year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 and 5 free travel packs

Get your discount for some Toe Sox using the code: LESLEY

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday.

Brad Crowell 0:00  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Get ready for some wins.

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:14  

Hey, Be It babe, Happy Friday. How are you doing really? I'll give you some space so you can actually think about that answer.

Lesley Logan 0:19  

I am frickin having a great day actually, I woke up and realize, like, I had two massive meetings on my schedule today. And I have a big weekend of stuff because I'm actually gone the following weekend going to be in Poland. And so I found myself today in real time going, how do I make today feel like it's easier? And so I took a luxurious walk and like what walked until I found my favorite coffee shop to get my favorite latte. And I was like, yes, n ow, today is a great day. So kind of felt like I had a whole day off because I have this like, incredibly luxurious morning, right? Just indulge myself in just a longer walk. And so I know you're really busy. I know life is really busy. But my frickin goodness, if you can just like, indulge a little bit like even if you only have five minutes, like, go smell your neighbor's roses, okay, like, like that is going to seriously make your day feel like oh my god, he's like, like, took a little detour. I'm telling you, it's worth it. Okay, so if you're new to the Be It pod, hello, we talk about how to be it till we see it. It's not faking it till we make it. It is absolutely taking the actions as if we are the person we already wanted to be because we are that person when we remove the fear. And part of that is celebrating what we did do. So I believe that positivity is a is like something that can compound outside of ourselves. And negativity is contagious. So in all of my communities, if you ever have you ever need to like vent, you can but you have to immediately share a win. I hope you will do that in your life. But at least on Fridays, you must celebrate a win and share it with a friend text it to a friend or send it to us and we'll shout you out here. 

Lesley Logan 1:56  

So Tiffany Lotus. She's an Agency member and her FYF is I open to sales on my retreat on Monday and I sold a third of the spots that day. Boom. I love that Tiffany Okay. Continues. It has been a vision I've had for about a year to curate an experience and break being my own retreat to this awesome spot and now it's happening. Taking the chaos and slowness of the summer as a cue in August to one, make time for me to focus on my own healing and rest and two, work on a couple projects I really want to make happen and move forward. So friggin awesome Tiffany way to like enjoy the slowness of your summer and focus on these big badass goals and also taking care of yourself. Oh my goodness, that is a humongous win like that. That's a win that most people wouldn't even actually take stock of. Way to go. So that other people go oh wow, I did take care of myself this week. Massive win. Celebrate it. Put in the win books. Okay, next one is from Susan she is she was from eLevate round one so she's one of our OGs and actually after elevate she actually broke her upper like her humerus bones her upper arm bone so like it's been a while and then also didn't heal correctly. So to be rebroken I can't imagine. 

Lesley Logan 3:07  

So here's Susan's win. Eight months since a double fracture of my humerus and damage of piriformis sorry, pisiform bone, "pisiform bone, followed by frozen shoulder. And I have been on my mat and reformer or set barrel or at wherever every day, a streak of over 500 days doing Pilates everyday which started during eLevate so I'm just gonna pause her win for a second. Even with a double fracture, a frozen shoulder, a damaged pisiform bone, she managed to find ways to move her body on the mat or a reformer or whatever she had access to wherever she was and she's now on a streak of 500 days. This is massive. Okay, now back to Susan. So I am a week-on-week getting stronger and can at least hold back long hold long back stretch and snake. I have found a classically trained teacher who is also a PT to work with I'm in the silver lining so much more to say about all this journey and how good I feel now. Thanks LL and my eLevator family. Susan Nash, way to frickin go. I love that you found your silver lining in this because we all know that there is a reason for whatever it happens to us. We just sometimes don't get to find out right away. And I love that you found one 500 ways 500 days of ways to work yourself out and you found someone near you who teaches the way you teach but also is a physio to support you on this healing journey. Amazing. 

Lesley Logan 4:37  

Okay, my win. So, um when I got back from the tour I had this day where I just like could not shake the anxiety like could like could not shake it. And I what I even like was telling Brad like I just don't feel good about today. I just don't like today I'm just stressed out I can't de-stress myself. I laid on my mat, I did this insight meditation. I did a breathwork meditation. I sat in front of my red light, I journaled. I like did all the things. I literally didn't even have a cup of coffee, because I was feeling anxious. I was like, Well, let's not add fuel to the fire, even though I love my coffee, and it never actually does that, but I was just like, well, let's listen to the body. Right? Some there's science out there. So anyways, I was just like, and I noticed I had a bunch of idiots that couldn't cancel, but I had this two-hour block. And Brad's like, I'm gonna drop you off at your favorite coffee shop, and you're gonna, you know, indulge and take yourself to lunch. And I did, I went to my favorite coffee shop, I had my favorite avocado toast. With salmon on it. It was amazing. Little bit of Himalayan sea salt, you guys, that combination is phenomenal. And I had a fabulous latte. And I mean, I can make my own lattes. But I do love this one. And I just, like, enjoyed every single bite and every single sip. And then I came back and did my meetings. And by the end of the day, I ended up at the workout that I go to at night. And with my workout crew. And even though I was like, ah, you know, like, I wasn't really I was like, Do I really mean go do this today? I'm so fun glad I did, you know, you never got to work out. 

Lesley Logan 6:10  

But like, the reality is, is like, the win in this is I acknowledged how I was feeling. I gave myself time to give myself the tools that I needed to help with it. I acknowledged that wasn't working. So I tried something else. I didn't keep telling myself a story. I'm anxious, I'm anxious, I'm anxious. I told myself there is possibility for me to have a good day than today. And I searched for evidence to prove that correct. And by the end of the day, I fucking loved it. I was out in a rainstorm that night just like whoo. And like the lightning was going off and I gotta look close to us we went back home but like the day was actually better than at the end than when it started. And so it's so important to know that just because a day can start off like shit doesn't mean it's an end like shit when you search for evidence for things to have possibility, positivity in them, you will find evidence to prove your brain correct. And if you are searching for negative stuff, you will find that too so keep that in mind. 

Lesley Logan 7:05  

Okay, the affirmation for you this week, because I've added this into our FYF FYS because it's my show and I'm here to help you with anything that could possibly help you be it till you see it and so here is your affirmation for this weekend. Say it out loud five times, write it down in your journal five times, put it on a post it, stick it somewhere, and it is: I belong here and I deserve to take up space. I belong here and I deserve to take up space. All right loves take up as much space as you can by shouting your wins out, sharing that with us. Texting it to a friend. you'll inspire positivity around you and until next time, Be It TIll You See It. 

Lesley Logan 7:37  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 7:37  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:37  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 7:37  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 7:37  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 7:37  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Brad and Lesley revisit an enlightening conversation with Rebecca Zung, a leading authority on narcissism negotiation. Delve deep into the complexities of interacting with narcissistic personalities, the significance of self-worth, and the necessity of boundary-setting. Listen now for actionable strategies to handle narcissists and reclaim your autonomy.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The underlying drivers of narcissistic behavior and how to recognize them.
• Effective strategies to end toxic narcissistic relationships and reclaim your life.
• Actionable steps to navigate and protect yourself from narcissistic manipulation.
• Empowering methods to establish and enforce healthy boundaries with narcissists.
• Proven tactics to shift from a defensive stance to an empowered offense for personal freedom

Episode References/Links:

• Andrea Maida's YouTube Channel
• Preorder Rebecca Zung’s Book: Slay the Bully
• Cambodia Pilates Retreat
• Join our email list!
• Profitable Pilates book by Lesley Logan

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

Get your free Athletic Greens 1 year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 and 5 free travel packs

Get your discount for some Toe Sox using the code: LESLEY

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

There's nothing wrong with you. Everything about you is why they attach themselves to you. So you just need to really recognize the signs of when a narcissist is coming your way.

Lesley Logan 0:03  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:16  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap. My co-host, Brad and I are going to dig into the actionable convo I had with Rebecca Zung in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one now, you must, because you need to. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. You can also listen to this first and then go listen to that. But y'all this is one of the guests that was on my like I want on my show. When we first started this podcast, I heard her on To the People Podcast. And I had her on my list (Brad: that was on the wish list). And then do you all remember when I had that girls' weekend? I think I talked about this on the podcast. I don't think she know how this worked out. I was on a girls' weekend and with those girls, I just met on the internet and I said come out to Vegas and we had like a girls' weekend. And she's like one of the girls like well, what do you need? How can I support you? And I was like I want Rebecca Zung on my podcast not thinking she knew her. And she goes, oh, shoot she's my friend. And I was like, what? You should go and text her. She literally texted her at the bar and Rebecca Zung said, I'm wrapping up my book. So reach out to me after September 1. And Carrie said would you prefer email or text? And she said email. So literally after like September 1, Carrie was like, and she's one of our recent guests. She said, hey, Rebecca, she said, this is Lesley (inaudible) and now she's on my podcast and yeah, crazy right? The interview was a while back, but she requested that it came out during her book launch, which you can go get her books (Brad: Which is pretty much now.) Pretty much now. So anyways, today is September 28, 2023. It is Remember Me Thursday. The purpose of today is to share the importance of pet adoption and shedding light on all orphan pets, waiting in shelters and rescues. Oh my god. (Brad: Yeah) I torture myself because I do look at the Nevada SPCA. (Brad: Yes, you do.) I know. I just I do and I like watch their videos. But I really

Brad Crowell 3:15  

I was I was like, on offensive of getting that red nose. He was fucking cute. (Lesley: So cute.) He's a good dog. Oh my god. But four dogs and two humans in a van. (Lesley: No, no) It's too much.

Lesley Logan 3:29  

We promised ourselves we would try out two dogs. (Brad: Oh) I'm sure it won't stay that way. Because now three is too many. But you know, here we are. But at any rate, if you cannot adopt if you live in a place where you cannot adopt, you cannot foster which by the way you can be someone who fosters if you like I travel a lot, you can actually be a foster. And you can tell a shelter or charity like I can foster for these two weeks. (Brad: Right) You know, and then I'm going to be gone. And like you

Brad Crowell 3:58  

or even if you're not allowed, like let's say you live in an apartment and you can't have a pet. You can actually volunteer to just walk the dogs. (Lesley: You can walk the dogs.) I used to do that. Just drive down a mile down the street. There was a couple of shelters and they always needed help walking dogs.

Lesley Logan 4:14  

Oh, yeah. We used to walk the shelter dogs when they were at the vet. That's right. Yeah. Anyways, it's I promise you like, especially if you're lonely, especially if you're going through a lot. There's something really special about like, just taking a dog who has no family for a walk. Yeah, it really does fill your soul. They're so loving and they just want to be loved. So anyways, the other thing is you can donate like find a charity that you can donate to because your money will help them help dogs get rescued and also help them get placed. Shout out to we listened to a podcast Keith Olbermann and every single night he actually talks about a dog in need. Yeah, and everything. Most of the dogs I would probably I'm not like a small dog person. But like I I love how he highlights them and so he can't adopt them. Also, I don't know maybe we should just like it's Little hard for us because our podcast comes out. You know, it's we don't get to record same day. We don't have the luxury of being Keith. But um, I do want to figure out how to like, I just keep going adopt this dog people.

Brad Crowell 5:11  

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 5:12  

So go do that this week. You may have caught that I was going live with Andrea Maida on YouTube (Brad: Over the past two weeks.) Yeah, yeah, it's happening. So Andrea Maida and I are dear friends, and we used to do a YouTube series together, couples struggle is real. And then we did tequila, tequila talks. And then 

Lesley Logan 5:28  

(Inaudible) Pilates and tequila, y'all.

Lesley Logan 5:36  

We just answered Pilates. We didn't do Pilates and drink tequila. We drink [tequila] and answered your question. Yeah. And YouTube recently allowed different YouTube YouTubers to go live together. So we did one on my, my channel, one on her channel, and we're answering your questions. And so check them out. You can find them on my YouTube channel, which is youtube.com/@onlinepilatesclasses. Yes, you need the @ symbol. I think it's weird, but you know, it's Google. They know what they're doing. And then I believe Andrea is the same youtube.com/@pilatesandrea yes, you need the @ symbol babe. He's nodding because I'm correct. If you're watching on YouTube.

Lesley Logan 5:39  

She's totally right. Yeah, I'm impressed.

Lesley Logan 6:23  

Yeah. So anyways, you can just go slashonlinepilatesclasses. It doesn't work, you have to use the @ symbol. 

Brad Crowell 6:27  

Yeah, hers is not @Andrea Maida. (Lesley: No. It's PilatesAndrea.) Oh, PilatesAndrea Yeah. Yes, that's what it is.

Lesley Logan 6:37  

I know. (Brad: Subscribe) Links will be in the show notes and you should like and subscribe both Ding, ding. That's what the bell does. Ding, ding. So all that'll be in the show notes. And then we are really even much closer to getting on a plane and going to Cambodia for our retreat.

Brad Crowell 6:55  

I am so fired up like, I can't wait. 

Lesley Logan 6:57  

Also because we have a couple like after the retreat ends, one of our retreaters are staying longer. And and the next retreat that's starting up doesn't really happen until that Sunday. And so I want to go to Kulen to the elephant thing. 

Brad Crowell 7:10  

Yeah. Well, I don't know how we didn't know this. But there's an elephant sanctuary about an hour and a half outside the city. That the only one I knew about before was like 12 hours drive away. And I was like, well, that's complicated. (Lesley: That's not happening.) We never really even tried to plan that. But I just found out this one, just north of a Siem Reap. And it turns out our amazing tour guide Peach, she literally knows the people who run it. (Lesley: Of course, she does.) She goes there often. So you know. 

Lesley Logan 7:37  

Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna make that happen. I hope my fingers are crossed. (Brad: I'm very excited about that idea.) No, no. Does that mean we can also go to the waterfall?

Brad Crowell 7:44  

Yeah, well, maybe we're there. Why not? It'll be Saturday.

Lesley Logan 7:48  

So that is stuff that we do. Obviously, that doesn't always happen on the retreat. That's something we're doing after the retreat. But like, if you stay after the retreat, you know, and we're there, there's adventures to do. In fact, we don't have to be there. You can go to adventures and stay at our place. So it's super fun. 

Brad Crowell 8:04  

We do Airbnb that out when we're not there with with retreaters. So yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:10  

Lesleylogan.co/retreat.

Brad Crowell 8:11  

Yeah. And if you are looking for a spot to take your retreat to, we do all the logistics, and we have the whole thing set up where you can effectively take your group, we'll handle all the legwork, and you can teach them your thing and then effectively run the program that we've created with the food and the touring and the experience and the the hotels and all the things you know all of it. So.

Lesley Logan 8:34  

Yeah. And then November fourth and fifth I'm in Chicago with Erika Quest teaching a week of Pilates workshops. We were so excited to team up again. We'll also actually be doing that in December. That's gonna be a fun trip. Oh, I'm gonna have less oh, you might not know this. I'm staying later. (Brad: Come on.) I am. So it ends on Sunday.

Brad Crowell 8:53  

I'll handle the dogs, babe. I got this.

Lesley Logan 8:55  

I'm staying with Peter. Peter Spinelli is gonna meet me in Chicago and we're gonna do a couple days.

Brad Crowell 9:01  

Breaking news. Breaking news, everyone. Internal family news here.

Lesley Logan 9:06  

And when I come back, I'm gonna go to Arizona. 

Brad Crowell 9:09  

What? What do you mean? Where? Where are you going? 

Lesley Logan 9:12  

Oh, I use those points to get like an incredible hotel. My mom is coming out to visit.

Brad Crowell 9:18  

I knew this. (Lesley: You knew this part.) I knew that part, but I didn't realize that it was right after Chicago.

Lesley Logan 9:23  

I'll be. I'll be home for 24 hours. 

Brad Crowell 9:26  

Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. I'll just keep watching the dogs. Yeah, I got this. 

Lesley Logan 9:28  

Yeah, you do. This is payback for that month you were in Cambodia. I get one week. Anyways. But the things you can attend of that entire conversation is November fourth and fifth in Chicago. With Erika Quest, you'll need to make sure you're on our email list to get that information because I don't have a link right now.

Brad Crowell 9:46  

Go to opc.me/emails 

Lesley Logan 9:49  

Yep. And you want to do that same thing to understand what's going to happen with our winter tour because our winter tour we go from Las Vegas to Philly area (Brad: Yeah) and back which means lots of cities

Brad Crowell 10:00  

There are so many. And honestly, this is going to be way different than our previous tours. I think there's going to be a handful more locations, we're going to be teaching workshops instead of just classes, this time around. We're going to be bringing the decks with us. So and that's, you know, we're we are already sponsored by Balanced Body for this leg of the for this tour. And we got a bunch of other companies that we're talking with right now. So it's going to be an amazing experience. We cannot wait to announce the cities. Yeah. And we'll be doing all that at the end of or close to the end of this. Probably right around when this is coming out, actually is when we're going to be publicly announcing that so.

Lesley Logan 10:42  

Yes, we want to be on those emails. Yeah. (Brad: Do it. Do it. Do it.) Because they're all limited spaces. Yeah. Okay. Before we get into Rebecca Zung's incredible advice do we have an audience question?

Brad Crowell 10:52  

Yeah, we do. This one was awesome. We got a YouTube question from @WayneFurquharson9007

Brad Crowell 10:57  

The way you said that it makes you think that they found a new way to say fuck you.

Brad Crowell 11:07  

I know. I'm not sure I don't think that (Lesley: It is Furquharson.) It could be Furquharson. (Lesley: Furquharson) I'm gonna go with that. We're gonna go with that y'all. 

Lesley Logan 11:18  

I'm gonna Google the person. It's an incredible, amazing question. So I can't imagine that's a fake name. 

Brad Crowell 11:23  

Well, it was a comment on one of our videos about comparing different like explaining the different pieces of a Pilates equipment. I said, Wow, that was amazing insight into different pieces of equipment, it'd be really nice to see some equipment comparisons. So you know, comparing the different chairs and comparing the performers, that's really complicated, because there's no place where there's like a showroom of reformers. (Lesley: No, no.) So I don't know how we would do that. (Lesley: I did say that in my response to that.) You did. You did. Yeah. But she said also recommendations for training providers. What? And then the question, What makes you an all around practitioner of Pilates? Do you need to study classical? Do you study modern? Is there like a scientific version of Pilates? Like, what is the best path here? 

Lesley Logan 12:04  

Yeah, so first of all, when it comes to training providers like and when I could decide if this is like teacher training providers, or like, who to take from, so if it is teacher training providers, you want to get my book, Profitable Pilates, Everything but the Exercises because the first few chapters are really actually talking about what you need to ask when it comes to becoming a teacher. So you pick the right program. As you're asking, like, how do I find a teacher trainer? Or sorry, a teacher that can train me as a human being who just wants to practice Pilates and be an all around practitioner? Well, this is complicated.

Brad Crowell 12:49  

Well, before you keep going, if you're looking at that book, it's profitablepilates.com/book

Lesley Logan 12:54  

Oh, that's okay. So um, so here's, here's the thing. I did a video on YouTube, about like, the truth about Pilates. And in there I discussed like, what you should be looking for when it comes to a Pilates teacher, because I think it's extremely important that you are armed with how to how do I know that this person is the right teacher for me. And it doesn't mean how many years experience they have, but their foundation of their teaching is important. So looking for looking for a teacher who has a comprehensive training is going to be really awesome. And you're looking for things like in bio, you're looking for things to say comprehensive, or 450 hours or more in their bio. Now, you because I know a lot of people teach Matt and listen to this. Hold on. I fucking love you. That's how I got started. You're an amazing teacher, I bet you're the best at what you do. However, somebody

Lesley Logan 13:51  

wants me an all around practitioner, ideally, they have access to their equipment. So I'm not this is not a diss on you. It's just like answering all around practitioner question. As far as classical better than modern versus scientific.

Lesley Logan 14:05  

You will, that's going to be a little bit more of a personal like, like a personality style and also at finding the teacher that you feel sees your body best. I am a classical teacher. However, some of my friends are among the best contemporary teachers out there. Shout out to Erika, and Portia and Joy and all these people, Jessica Blount like all these people who are amazing at what they do, I would not say that I'm better or they're better than me based on the style. What makes a teacher the best for you is their curiosity in your body and how it's going and their ability to take you on a journey that makes you stronger than you were the day before. And so if your teacher is constantly telling you what not to do, they're counting a lot. They're overcorrecting, you feel like you do nothing correctly. That is not going to make you the best all around practioner. You are looking for people who can be a coach who can be a guide who encourage movement, and who are okay, letting you make mistakes and be on a journey. Brad is smiling, so I'm just gonna let him jump in.

Brad Crowell 15:11  

While I'm just laughing about our last episode where we were talking about cults. You know, these two episodes came back to back. (Brad: Back to back y'all.)

Lesley Logan 15:22  

But they're also right after the pastor, so 

Brad Crowell 15:26  

Two pastors and former pastor in a row, Adrian and then Nikole. (Lesley: I know.) Yeah. (Lesley: And then neither, they're not pastors anymore. Anyways.) No, but yeah, I was gonna say, I think that, you know, there's a weird, there's a weird there's a weird what's the right word? It's, you know, acceptance, that in restaurants that the chef is a tyrant. There's a weird acceptance that in the dance world that the teacher is so hard and harsh and crazy. And I think that all those people can go fuck themselves. Because that's bullshit. And in the Pilates world, if you end up with a teacher who is, is like, this is the only way everyone else is wrong, then that they they're wrong. They are 100% wrong. And I will happily tell them that. 

Lesley Logan 16:28  

And that happens on both sides of the contemporary and classical. I'll suppose it's not like

Brad Crowell 16:33  

It's not Yeah, that happens. That like the reality that was happening in that scenario is that they are creating division in the Pilates community. (Lesley: It happens in yoga.) It happens in yoga, happens, it totally happens in yoga. I mean, I, I experienced that personally. But it happens to Pilates. And I think it's the worst thing that we can be doing to ourselves in this industry, is because we're creating the division in this industry. And it's wrong. It's wrong. 

Lesley Logan 17:03  

And also like, it doesn't allow either the client nor teacher to be on a journey to learn. And so I don't you ask about scientific and I'll say this, I know anatomy. I have studied it. In fact, it was a big part of my major before I switched majors, I have taken more than my fair share of anatomy classes. I don't use anatomical terms ever when I teach. And it's not because I don't know them. It's because in Pilates the whole body should be working. So I'm not going to talk to your rhomboids. Because I'm not going to talk to your Supersprint anus, I'm not going to talk to your prehensile whatever. I don't know if you do that this is not a knock on you, if that works for you. But that is when as my teacher Jay Grimes, he said in Joseph's Pilates studio he never once heard an anatomical term, the body was to move. And so you to find a teacher or an or teacher trainer, who it's not about letting people just be sloppy, it's about letting the body tell you what it means. If you let a body move without being micromanaged. And this is what I work with my photos and my mentorship eLevate, the body, if you let the body move, and you just watch it, it's going to tell you what it needs. It's going to tell you where it's getting hung up. And then you get to ask yourself, Where else can I help them? Where can I do this? Where should we go right now? And you get to be this curious person.

Brad Crowell 18:30  

I just want to say that the exactly the curiosity. I wasn't there clearly wasn't alive when Joseph Pilates was creating different pieces of equipment. But that curiosity is what kept him saying, Hmm, this person isn't getting the thing. So what if I made another piece of equipment that would help isolate the thing or do the thing, right? I mean, if you go back and you look at the different, like, go go to Balanced Body go to like go to their library, Ken Andelman has been collecting schematics and like history of Pilates for decades. Right? So, Ken Andelman has been collecting, you know, all these schematics and everything for years. And they all have different, they're all slightly different. He kept changing and modifying and changing and changing and changing. Right. So, you know, he didn't I don't even I can't put words in his mouth. But I would imagine that there wasn't one way to do the thing. Right, because he kept making new pieces of equipment to do the thing.

Lesley Logan 19:43  

Well, yeah. And yes, and yes. Yes.

Brad Crowell 19:47  

To get to the point to where he wanted them to be.

Lesley Logan 19:50  

Yeah. No, like, if you couldn't do it on the reformer. He would take you to the Cadillac, correct? Yes, yes. Correct. Yeah, I think that's a great point. So anyways, to answer your question, It's there's no easy way to find the right teacher for you except to take from different teachers until you find one that you really like. But watch that video that I made on the truth about Pilates, and ask your teacher questions. And if you feel like you're never good enough, then find a different teacher. If you are wanting to be a teacher, then go read my book, because the questions I give you are going to be really awesome for helping you for helping you find the right program that can make it the teacher you want to be.

Brad Crowell 20:28  

Yeah, I mean, I not having gone down this path personally. But having edited this book, the questions that you ask, allow the reader to look ahead in the future and say, What do I actually want to do with my Pilates career? And then that question and the questions around in those first three chapters will actually allow you to say, well, maybe this isn't the right program for me, or maybe this is the right program for me. And it will equip you with the questions to ask the teacher training program. So that you know what you're actually getting. Yeah, so yeah.

Brad Crowell 21:04  

All right. Now let's talk about Rebecca Zung. Rebecca Zung is an attorney turned educator who specializes in teaching individuals how to negotiate with narcissists, drawing from her personal experience and professional expertise, and has authored the book Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist, (Lesley: Which is out now you can go get it.) Yeah. fascinating conversation really made me think about my life and my experience with just people in my life.

Lesley Logan 23:11  

So here is what I fucking loved. I loved it so much. Like, I don't even need to talk about the rest of the episode why you should watch you should watch and listen to all of it. But I love this. She said they, narcissists, don't attach themselves to you. Because you have so little value. They attach themselves to you because you have so much value. And so if you're like, well, I have these fucking narcissists in my life. Oh my god, I'm like stuck with another narcissist. It's, it's because you're so fucking awesome. And they see how they can utilize that. And I think that is a little what the most important thing to consider because we can get so down on ourselves if we dated another narcissist, or we keep getting sucked into a narcissist in our family or we keep working for one and we can't stop it's because it's, it's not because it's you. Like, it's not your fault that you're fucking awesome. You just have to also like you actually just have to figure out how to recognize the signs and how to exit yourself out of those things. Boundaries are amazing.

Brad Crowell 24:13  

Yeah, I think like speaking from personal experience, having like inadvertently surrounded myself with narcissists most of my life you know, I always appreciated the idea of being the person behind the person I was that's what how we saw myself. (Lesley: Am I a narcissist?) No, I don't think so. That's the thing. 

Lesley Logan 24:34  

Well that but that's because you like the person you're the person behind this person most of the time. You are doing that, if you keep doing that, am I

Brad Crowell 24:42  

But because of my operational, all that kind of stuff, right? Like, my like, that's my you know, that's my zone of genius is being able to do the operations I but I needed to do an operations for someone right. And so oh, I ended up working for a narcissist. being best friends with a narcissist being having business partners, like all this kind of stuff. And the reality is, (Lesley: Cause you're so fucking awesome.) Well, thank you. Thank you. That's what my point was ultimately is I'm awesome. No, that's not my point. I appreciate that, babe, you're amazing. Now the point is it wasn't on purpose. No, you know, I, you know, and but but I also didn't really understand what was happening. And unfortunately, those relationships ended badly. You know, where things ended up in like, like, like explosions and fireworks.

Lesley Logan 25:41  

I guess I didn't What I didn't ask her maybe, is like, can you even in a relationship with a narcissist without a name badly? Like, it's kind of hard. Like, I think as a person who cares? I think you're always going to feel like it didn't end. They're never gonna let you let it end well.

Brad Crowell 25:56  

Oh, well, it didn't end the way I wanted them. Yeah, I didn't actually want the relationships to end. Yeah. Right. And you know, but there was there was something like, inate like, in me, like that was like, I got to a point where I was like, I can't do the thing anymore, whatever the thing is that needed to happen. And whether, you know, personal, work, business, whatever, like there was, it was like, it was guttural. It was like revolt revulsion to continue down this path. And I couldn't understand it myself. And I really struggled with it for a long time. Because I actually had, you know, I cared for these people. And that was really, really challenging. And but I, you know, and I think that the thing of not blaming yourself, that's hard to do, you know, because you walk away from a relationship that just hand grenaded and you're like, What did I do wrong?

Lesley Logan 26:52  

Yeah. And she said, you can't actually blame yourself. They're really good at this. Like they're, they're really, really good at what they do. Because they've been, it's, it's part of like, how they became a person in this world. So it's like, this is their habit. And they, if you go back and listen to the whole episode, there's not a single cult leader who's not a narcissist, like they need people who are wanting to make this world a better place to put them up on a pedestal and help them achieve whatever it's they want. So I think like, I think we've every single person listening, this has probably experienced or is experiencing currently a relationship with a narcissist that they're stuck on and having a hard time with. And go listen to this episode, because she's amazing. (Brad: Yeah, it was a great episode) and then probably read her book. And then you have got to get out of like, this is your fault. And that like you did something wrong, and instead start to take the steps to put boundaries up. One of the things I remember one of the reasons why I want to have her on the episode of the show, like, because how do you be till you see it, if you've like, got sucked in with a narcissistic relationship? It is because the only thing you can be is what they need you to be because they're just gonna keep doing it. Right. And she, she's just got some really great actual steps. It's like, when you're working with a narcissist, you're never gonna win the argument. So if they emailed you a list of things you did wrong, like, emailing them back all the ways that wasn't wrong is not they're not gonna go okay. Like you just have to

Brad Crowell 28:25  

It doesn't fucking matter. I used to get these crazy fucking emails in all caps and red letters from my boss. (Lesley: That's so weird. I can't even read that really well, it just looks like it's screaming at you.) No, but I would. I would. I was just like, changed it read to just emphasize Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, it was like it was him shouting was what it was through emails. Right. And at first, I was like, oh, man, (as if the all caps didn't) but it got to the point where it was so fucking often I just ignored it. I was like, This is him venting about a thing that I can't solve. And so whatever, you know, and I don't think that benefited our relationship. 

Lesley Logan 29:02  

But actually it benefited you. And also, like she even said, like this one thing that here's one of the things that Rebecca Zung said, you don't you're not going to, no evidence is going to prove that you are right. So you have to if you have to respond back, it needs to be like the time like the simplest sentence. Okay, we'll talk about it at 10:30 on Thursday. Right? Like not going point by point with them because that's what they want you to do. And that's how you always lose. Yeah, you will not win that Yeah. And even with one of the relationships that ended with you and a friend who's a narcissist, that's what they wanted. They wanted to go point by point like this happened on this day and they did this this happened on this and it's like, yeah, all those things happen the way that he thought they happened, but we don't need to go point by point the culmination the culmination of it all is that like, this isn't working and you've been abusive towards me and period. Yeah. Anyways, I just I I want to reiterate that one more time. You are not, you did not put your you are not the reason. There's nothing wrong with you everything about you, it's why they attach themselves to you. So you just need to really recognize the signs of when a narcissist is coming your way. 

Brad Crowell 30:15  

It's not your fault that you're in a relationship with the narcissist. 

Lesley Logan 30:18  

No, they're really fucking good at that. She said it she's the expert. Okay, what did you love?

Brad Crowell 30:22  

Yeah, love is relative here. But the thing that really struck me was getting out of a relationship with a narcissist is challenging and accusatory and personal and emotional. And she said, when she shared the wisdom from she had a business coach and a guru who, ironically guru from last week, but she said her business coach, what said, listen, it's not what the narcissists say. It's how it lands for you. Meaning you cannot take it personally. You can't. It's if you do, you will destroy yourself. You know, and what she started to talk about, which I thought was really interesting, was agreeing with how the narcissist feels without agreeing to the narcissist's point. Right, and, you know, so if you've ever been in a relationship with someone who has borderline personality disorder, you know, or is a narcissist, it's the same thing. Like, you need to acknowledge how they're feeling. And they're allowed to feel the feels. But what they're saying is, might not actually be reality, and may not be true. And so if you listen to what they're saying, then and personalizing it, you know, it may really, really, really hurt you. But you can't let you cannot take it personally. Right. She talked about the Four Agreements, take nothing personally in the Four Agreements. Right. And, you know, you the way to have a conversation and to like, I don't know, I think her book is about winning an argument, right? 

Lesley Logan 32:25  

She has, she has another like, she has other stuff out about winning arguments. 

Brad Crowell 32:30  

Yeah. Okay. And, and basically, you know, you have to acknowledge what they're feeling in order for them to, like, take a pause. And so like, Hey, I understand what you're saying. And I understand how this makes you feel. Yeah. And then you get to move on. And that allows you to not take it personally. Yeah. And that's challenging to do. It's really, really hard to do. 

Lesley Logan 32:52  

I think like, what really, this is, like, y'all, if you are really good at your boundaries, it's really hard for a narcissist to take over. Because like your boundaries, using your boundaries, in the beginning relationship will let people know, like one of my clients, she is so friggin like badass about like, she tells a job. She's like, I actually don't work more than eight hours in a day. You don't pay me to do that. Salary does not mean I overworked myself. She doesn't tell them in the interview, she waits until she's hired. And as soon as they do that, she's like, Hey, I've noticed over the last three days, the amount of meetings you've had me in have required me to have caused me to not really get my work done in the day. I would just like you to know that because if you're gonna keep putting me in six hours of meetings, and I have six hours of work, I mean, they're not gonna get the work done. Not gonna be the meetings. And they'll often like, oh, well, like you're part of the team. She's like, I am on this team. And being part of this team means the amount of work I can give you eight good hours a day. And I'm like, Are you like, both was a part of as like, oh my god, like, are you gonna get in trouble? 

Brad Crowell 33:57  

Are you gonna get fired, like

Lesley Logan 33:58  

It's not what I get paid to do. (Brad: That's true.) That's not it. Yeah. And so like, so she has crazy bosses and, and like she does not let them push her around. And she doesn't let them abuse her time. So it makes it really hard for them to push these like narcissistic things on her because she's like, that's a boundary. I don't let people cross.

Brad Crowell 34:20  

It was it took me years to get to that point at my job. Where, oh, where my boss would like, what? What threat? Well, he would just hit drop. Do you remember the right hand grenade into a conversation of like, what about this thing that like we haven't talked about in four months?

Lesley Logan 34:37  

We were at a dinner, and he threw a hissy fit on a cell phone password. And like he was texting you. It was like very early on in our relationship. It was something about his daughter's cell phone. It has nothing to do with you. It's like not even your job. There's like someone else who does this. And he was like having a hissy fit about this whole thing. And we had to go. We're at dinner. Like there's nothing you can do. about this. 

Brad Crowell 35:00  

Yeah, like what I would do in the meetings, like what I got to the point of because I was tired of getting gray hairs was, I got to the point of saying, hey, yesterday, you asked me to do this. Today, I blocked out time to do this. And what you're telling me today is priority is going to affect the thing you asked me to do yesterday. So I am super happy to do either one. You tell me which one is priority, and I will get that done. I think it will take me four hours to do this project and six hours into this project, your call. And when I got black and white with the amount of fucking time it would take to do the things that he was asking me to do. All of a sudden, my life became a whole lot easier. Because it's he's like, it's funny. It's not unreasonable when you put it that way. But he's unreasonable if you don't, because the expectation is, you're just gonna get it all done. Right. And if you actually spell out what that means, and you're not being angry or confrontational about it, you let them make the decision, then I was able to actually survive the intensity of it. Because I effectively

Lesley Logan 36:08  

You just kind of disarmed them. You like,

Brad Crowell 36:12  

yeah, let him make the decision. You tell me, man, I'll do whatever you want. You know.

Lesley Logan 36:16  

That's such a great gift. I think, you know, then again, it comes to boundaries, though. 

Brad Crowell 36:20  

Yeah, that was, it took me four or five years to get to the point where I was like, I can't fucking work till two in the morning when I'm at home anymore. Not doing it. So yeah.

Lesley Logan 36:30  

Yeah. Anyways, oh, she also. You also like had, I just want to say like, hurt people hurt people. I think that's a really important thing to add in here. Before you go to the Be It Action Items. Like, you know, it's

Brad Crowell 36:45  

She said, people treat you the way that they see themselves. Yeah. You know, and that's part of that, like, the one if they're lashing out and being accusatory about something, you know, it's very likely that that's how they see themselves.

Lesley Logan 37:00  

Yeah. I just, I mean, like, my goodness, we'll have to have her back. But we all need to read her books. And then we can have her back, BookBub. Just, I, it's, you know, it's so easy for those who are listening to this you. I felt years ago, I remember driving so I was in Orange County. And I remember hearing the guy who was probably a narcissist actually. From Do you remember on MTV, like there was there was a they had a show. It was like a nightly radio show. And it was with Oh my God, it was the doctor who Oh, my gosh, there's two guys.

Brad Crowell 37:34  

I was definitely not allowed to watch MTV. 

Lesley Logan 37:36  

I was in college, but there was you guys. Somebody shout it out (inaudible). They're like (Brad: Drew Pinsky.) Yes. Drew, Dr. Drew, and it was this. They had a late-night radio show that would also air on MTV. And it was with I can't think of his name. I think it's a big forehead and he ended up with his own late-night show (Brad: Loveline.) I used to love Adam Carolla. Yes. I mean, yeah, I don't think he's I think they I think both have been canceled or at least one anyways, um, Dr. Drew was in an interview way back. This was a radio show so it was like this is way before podcast you guys I was in Orange County it's in college. And he said that there was an increased this is what there was no Instagram there's no Tiktok there's no snap that at the time it was like just MySpace. And like Facebook was like barely a blip on our screen. Just like MySpace right? And at that time he said social media is causing this increased narcissistic behavior. (Brad: Hmm.) And now it is insane like some of my friends I would consider it like a narcissist in a weird way just because the way they like see themselves and the way they do things. They're not a narcissist to me because like, they see me as like an equal with them and like, you know, I've got boundaries. But at any rate, there's putting yourself out there as as this person who knows these answers these things, it's really easy to either become a cult leader or at the very least slightly be a narcissist and so it's it's because of the way the world is causing us to put ourselves out there. That's like, you can be raised like this and I also think parenting so so I just I really wanted to have her on because in being until we see it, if you are sucked into a relationship with a narcissist, they will cause you every single day to not be the person you want wanting to be. Brad's got the facial look, he's looking something up. Are you just discovered loveline in this moment?

Lesley Logan 37:47  

No, I just decided to search for does social media increase narcissism (Lesley: And when did they say?) well I don't know the study or whatever. This is just a LinkedIn post but the answer is yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's I don't know who backed it up. But you know, there's there's like (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 40:00  

Do social media create narcissism or are narcissists attracted to social media? Interesting.

Brad Crowell 40:05  

That's another question.

Lesley Logan 40:08  

I'm sure there's a study, someone could send it to us, okay.

Brad Crowell 40:13  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold executable intrinsic are targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Rebecca Zung?

Lesley Logan 40:24  

Are you going first?

Brad Crowell 40:25  

I'm gonna go first. So, she said she talked about the three approach, which she said are step one, don't run from the narcissist. Step two, make a U turn. And step three, break free. Right? So step one, she advises you to start creating boundaries unless it was talking about that this entire episode. Such as you cannot speak to me that way. Or, like your client said, I'm happy to do that tomorrow. But it's after six o'clock. Right? So observe the situation. The hardest part of it is to like, be objective, not subjective, right? Subjective means it's what you're feeling objective is what a third party would feel. She says she emphasized that it's not not to feel bad about choices made in survival mode, you know, because it's so weird. Thinking back to my experience, where I finally drew boundaries, where I said, six o'clock is my line. I'm not working after six o'clock. And that took me years to get to that point. Then I got a phone call one time. And I was about to go live on a show. I was hosting a show. (Lesley: Oh, yeah. You used to have a radio show.) Yeah, I used to have a TV radio show on the internet. And 10 minutes before we were about to go live. I got some fucking dumb, bullshit, like, explosion, unnecessary thing that had to be resolved that exact second with my immediate boss who was reporting to the owner. And I basically told him, I can't do it. And he freaked out on me. And I said, I will call you tomorrow. I'm about to go live. I cannot be having this conversation right now. You're fucking with my headspace. I have to do what I'm doing in my life. And my life is not my job. And that was like, he basically wrote me off after that conversation. And like, you know, and but he couldn't fire me because the boss wouldn't let him. But it was the first time that I ever actually drew a line in the sand. You know, so. And I actually felt like that was survival mode, because that's not my normal. I don't usually like confrontation don't usually get into confrontation. And that was the that was the very beginning of what I started to embrace confrontation in that job. Because in order to get out, I had to start being confrontational. So you know, I like that. She says, don't feel bad about the choices you make in survival mode. Step, you're gonna need fucking counsel also after that.

Lesley Logan 43:00  

Sidenote. I saw someone the other day, like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Like the pandemic. I just got in touch with you. And I was like, you know, apologies for not staying in touch with people during the pandemic, period. End of story. Yeah. Everybody in the world was in survival mode. Absolutely. No apologies. I'm not worried about it. If you have been staying away from me for a year, because you've been embarrassed about that. Please. No.

Brad Crowell 43:26  

Yeah, she said, step two is to make a U turn. Right. And she started explaining her slay method, which I thought was super fun, which is strategy, leverage, anticipate, and then you focus on you. Right? So strategy, you can't start creating a strategy until you set those boundaries. Step one, right. It involves creating a vision, a goal and action steps in your life, you need to understand what you actually want for you. Because if you don't know what you want for you, you're going to just we asked their vision.

Lesley Logan 43:58  

That's the whole thing, right? Like, they'll say, like, if you don't have goals, someone else will make sure you have a goal. (Brad: That's right.) So like, that's just how it goes, yeah.

Brad Crowell 44:05  

Then you need to, you know, then you need to identify what leverage you may have in the situation. For me, what I was getting out of my job quitting that job, like he used to sue people who would quit. So how did I quit without getting fucking sued That was I remember that that was a big, it was insane. Right? How do you get out of that? Right? And knowing that it was such a cult, it was, oh, there's no question. But what I realized is that the number one priority for him was family. So I leveraged my family. So step, so part of the slay method is leverage. And I leveraged my family and my appeal to him when I left was my wife is starting a business. And I need to support her in that business. Every single thing he ever said to me for the years that I worked for him was why he does things for his family. And he could not say, you can't do that, because he's stands for family. So I leveraged that that was the leverage I had in that situation. (Lesley: You're so smart.) Took me a long time to figure it out. I appreciate that. Number three part third part A is anticipation be two steps ahead of the narcissist understand what type of narcissist you're dealing with covert, grandiose or malignant. I don't know the difference between those three, I didn't look those up. (Lesley: She goes into those, I think in her book.) In her book, she talks about them, so it's worth reading. And then finally, why is focusing on you prioritizing your mindset shift from being on the defensive to being on the offense. And that, you know, it was like, it just took, it actually took me getting to a breaking point of like, I can't keep living like this, I'm gonna die, to get to the point where I was like, I need to prioritize me, then I started setting boundaries, right, then I started trying to play on my escape, effectively, right. And that leads to step three, which is breaking free. The true breaking free is understanding that there will always be narcissists in this world. So if and when you extricate yourself from the situation you may be in right now, which could be a mom could be, you know, a sibling, could be a boss, it could be a partner, a business partner, you know, like, the reality is, there are narcissists. And now that, you know, it will be easier to identify them in the future. But again, having somebody to talk to about it, is going to really benefit you. So what about you?

Lesley Logan 46:24  

So I love this, she said. She said, If there's only one thing she could leave people with is that you alone define your value. You alone define your value. So you have to, you have to like and that's that can be really hard. Like she talked about a story of how like, she was like afraid that she's gonna be seen as inconsistent or a flake. Because her her jobs like took her all over the map. And her coach said, Well, you can let people see you as a flake, or you can present your self as the attorney who has a financial background.

Brad Crowell 47:01  

Yeah. So she went from being an attorney to a finance, like consultant like, like personal finance consultant back to being an attorney. Yeah. And she she said, I'm, I feel like people are looking at me like you just jump around. What are you even doing?

Lesley Logan 47:15  

Yeah. And she, but because she had that experience. Now she's the like, she's the best attorney who's got that experience. And so she can really see things from a different place. By the way, she didn't have any Yeah, she has like the number one like divorce firm. Like, she's like one of the like, it's fucking amazing.

Brad Crowell 47:28  

One of the top firms in Florida and she was, you know, some of her clients were billionaires.

Lesley Logan 47:34  

Which, when you're doing divorce, you gotta know the finances real Well, anyways, she said, people will think what we tell them to think, right? I mean, this goes back to like, the most certain person in the room wins. So she said, like, how you show up is everything. This is being it until you see it, guys, this is being it till you see it. Your presentation and demeanor dictates how people perceive and interact with you. So here's the deal. This is something oh my god, I'm so grateful I was in debate team in college, and my in my speech in debate classes. They said, if you make a mistake in a speech, don't acknowledge it. No one knows you made a mistake until you say, Oh, I forgot to say or I wanted to say, oh, I want to do this. That's right. Just either if you can find a way to add it back in somewhere else than do or just leave it out. And like that is a kind of a thing. Like when I am presenting workshops

Brad Crowell 48:27  

It takes thinking on your feet to do that. 

Lesley Logan 48:28  

It really does. I when I'm presenting workshops, like of course, if I'm not looking, if I don't have my notes in my hand, I'm going to go off the roadmap and go, Oh, I forgot this. And I don't say Oh, I forgot this. I say oh, I want to make sure we do this or hey, let's actually take a moment to talk about this. Some sort of way segue to bring that topic in. Because if I go oh man, I forgot this. Oh my like, how, like, when I was in retail, I had this one guy who worked for me. And he had a lot of shit going on his life. And at one point, he was like, in between housing, all this stuff. I was really worried about him. You would never know. Because he said when he crossed the threshold from the marble of the mall to the oh my god, there's like a special kind of like a tile tile. It's like yeah, like travertine tile. He like came in and he he told himself as soon as he went from the shiny marble floor to the travertine tile, he would go it's showtime. And he and it's and he would just do it show time and that would let him know that in this moment how I let people see me and so people you guys he ended up getting a job as one of the like highest managers and LVHM store which is like one of the stores like for Louis Vuitton, you know Balenciaga, Bulgari-owned store so hard to get a job in one of those companies, let alone a manager right off the bat. And it's because he decided how they're going to perceive him. He was really good he did. But his resume might not have gotten that job, but he told them how he wanted to be perceived. And I think that's so important. You can you can walk into an interview or you can meet a new client and you can act like oh my God, I hope they liked me or you can go, they're fucking gonna like me. Here's how I show up. Here's how much I'm worth and be really clear about that. Anyways, August is on the show right now, if you're watching on YouTube, because he is just having a needy moment. He's having a day guys. But I hope that this episode really helps give you permission to like, be an amazing human being and not blame yourself for the shit the narcissists you've let in your life. And also that she helps you guide you to getting narcissists out of your life. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 50:42  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 50:43  

Thank you so much for listening, and we want to know how you use these tips in your life tag Rebecca Zung. She will love to hear if you bought her book. Let her know and us know what your favorite takeaways were. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Brad Crowell 50:55  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 50:56  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 50:56  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 50:56  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 50:56  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 50:56  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 50:56  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

In this compelling episode, Lesley and Rebecca delve into strategies for handling challenging personalities. Drawing from her personal journey and expertise, Rebecca provides invaluable insights on recognizing and countering manipulative behaviors. Discover how her SLAY method can be your key to breaking free from toxic entanglements.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Explore different types of narcissism and their distinct signs.
• Dive into Rebecca's SLAY method for empowerment.
• Grasp the steps to set boundaries with manipulative individuals.
• Realize that self-worth is self-defined.
• Understand the psychology behind narcissistic behaviors.
• Embrace self-awareness to navigate challenging relationships.

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Rebecca on IG
• Rebecca Zung’s Website
• Preorder Rebecca’s Book: Slay the Bully
• Watch Rebecca on YouTube
• Follow Rebecca on Tiktok
• Follow Rebecca on LinkedIn
• The Four Agreements

Guest Bio:

Rebecca Zung is a top 1% attorney and Narcissism Negotiation Expert, recognized by U.S. News & World Report as a “Best Lawyer in America”. She's the founder of the SLAY negotiation method, boasts over 30 million YouTube views, and is the author of the upcoming book "SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win", along with two bestsellers. A major media contributor, she's been featured on platforms like Extra, Forbes, and Dr. Drew.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Rebecca Zung 0:00  

You don't want anybody to feel like they're a failure or feel guilty or feel worse on themselves. You know, I mean, you know, I always tell people don't feel bad about choices that you made. When you were in survival mode. Right?  

Lesley Logan 1:54  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 

Lesley Logan 2:37  

Hey, Be It babe. All right, we have a hot topic. I think it's a hot topic. It's a topic that I've been interested in for a really long time. And you'll hear how I found out about our guests. And she didn't even know the story. So I got to tell it to her on the air. But our guest is Rebecca Zung. And she is an incredible person, you probably have heard from her because she helps you negotiate with narcissists. And she shares narcissism, covert narcissism and how we can work like lead our lives, when we find ourselves in and are in a relationship with a narcissist, whether it's work or personal in this episode, which I am so excited about, because one of the things that I think could be really hard when you're being until you see it is the people around you, they can make it very difficult. And you can be the strongest, most amazing person at work, and then at home, you feel like you're not, or vice versa. And, and so she explains this whole thing so well and why and how the narcissist can mesh themselves into your world, and how you can untangle that web. And also, I just, you know, I love the Be It Action I was I really do so. But I do. I do love this one. I think it's really incredible. And what I hope is that this is an episode that you will listen to, that you share a lot. Because the truth is, is that whether you are dealing with a narcissist right now, or someone else you know and they are around us, and we're going to have to deal with them in different situations all the time. And so hopefully this episode arms you with the tools you need to deal with a narcissist in your life or prevent one from coming into your life in the future. As always, we do love when you share the show, so please make sure you do that. And there's some great links in the show notes for her book that you can preorder. At the time this comes out if you're listening to it after it came out you could order but also she's giving away some amazing content to support you and your journey with getting out of people's narcissistic relationships you might be in so here she is, Rebecca Zung.  

Lesley Logan 4:14  

All right, Be It babe. I am beyond excited about this exact moment. I don't actually think our guests even knows how this happened. So I've had her name on the list to talk to her on this podcast. And today it started. She's on the wish list since it started because I heard her on two other podcasts. And I was like this woman has to come on, because what she talks about is what we all deal with all the time, and how on earth might be it till we see it with narcissists in our lives. So I had her on my wish list. And then I remember, hey, we're gonna do a quick little, little story. So I've talked to you on the pod about how I had this one random girl state where I met these girls, and we all said, Let's go to Vegas. I live in Vegas. So they came here and we're sitting around having drinks, and I said, yeah, I really. I have a wish list of a couple people that I've been wanting to get on pod. And Donna girls is like, well, who isn't? I said, Well, I'd love to get Rebecca Zung on the pod. And she said, Oh, she's a friend of mine. Let me see if I can make that happen. And I now you're here. So, you guys, our guest today is Rebecca Zung.

Rebecca Zung 5:01  

Ah, it wasn't Harry Ford. Oh, yeah, that's right, Carrie. Shout out to Carrie.

Lesley Logan 5:08  

Yeah, we love Carrie. Her episode is probably one of the most top downloaded one. So everyone loves Carrie, but that's how you got here. And I'm a fangirl a little bit, but I'm gonna first let you tell everyone who you are and what you're amazing at.

Rebecca Zung 5:21  

Oh, well, my name is Rebecca Zung and I am an attorney by trade. But what I really do now is I teach people how to negotiate with narcissists. It's such a weird thing to say like when I'm at cocktail party, things like that. I always joke that people used to really run away when I told them that I was a divorce attorney now they're all like, Oh my God, I need you.

Lesley Logan 5:45  

Right, because I feel like there's like a narcissistic epidemic or (inaudible). I don't know what you call it, but they're...

Rebecca Zung 5:51  

Yeah (inaudible) for sure.

Lesley Logan 5:54  

So can we just take a brief I'm like, how did you go from being a divorce attorney to being someone who helps people with narcissist?

Rebecca Zung 6:02  

Well, it really happened during COVID. I was I had dealt with a narcissistic business partner. Prior to COVID. I had really kind of merged my practice a little bit before that to do entrepreneurial things. And I ended up with a covert narcissistic business partner who ended up she was a woman and somebody who everybody thought was amazing and wonderful and humble and kind. And the thing that everybody thinks when you're dealing with a covert narcissist, right, and I prior to that, I thought narcissists were all male, blowhards, misogynistic, rule-the-room kind of, that's what I thought a narcissist was. And when I was dealing with this particular person, it was really one of the most horrible, heinous experiences of my life. It brought back feelings of when I had been bullied as a kid, and it caused a lot of trauma. I always say drama, trauma and chaos, yeah, in my life, and this, somebody had said to me, Oh, she's a covert narcissist. And I was like, okay, what is that? So I ended up reading a whole bunch of books on narcissism, not because I was going to end up teaching this stuff, but because I wanted to know about it for myself. I had already separately been speaking a lot about negotiation. And I was even the keynote speaker for the American Bar Association. On the topic of negotiation, I'd written a book on the topic of negotiation. So it was a natural fit for me to actually start applying what I was learning about narcissists to negotiation at that time, and then COVID hit, then COVID hit. And so when COVID hit, I couldn't practice law, I was really flying between LA and Florida, which is where my practice was. And I just started talking about how to negotiate with a narcissist on YouTube. And here we are, like two and a half years later, and I have close to 40 million views on YouTube. And I have a podcast and a book coming out later this year on how to negotiate with a narcissist and I didn't practice law anymore. So, there you go.

Lesley Logan 8:27  

I, what I love about your story is like, you weren't set out to like, No, I'm going to teach people this, it was kind of like you're trying to figure out how to like, how to actually survive your own situation. So you could not I mean, gosh, drama, trauma and chaos, but also just like the rent space that that person takes up in your head on a daily basis when you feel like you're being bullied or like, misunderstood at work. And so but I also think it's really cool to hear that because I think a lot of people in their being until they see it they don't give credit to the past and like who they all the all the skill sets they already have. So you were actually just taking one thing you already do really well. And they're like, well, let me do this and also during COVID When everyone's locked inside with their narcissist, family member or something.

Rebecca Zung 9:11  

Yeah. 

Lesley Logan 9:12  

So okay, can we just take a step back for the people, we did a little explaining about covert narcissist, but can we just do a little like 101, how does someone know they're dealing with a narcissist in their life?

Rebecca Zung 9:23  

Well, it's so interesting because they start off being the most charming, charismatic, personable person you've ever met. And that's the thing that's so interesting about it because they know how to make you also feel like you are the most incredible person and that together, you have to be together, whether it's business, or personal. Like where have you guys been as far as being together all of your lives. You know, the universe has put you together you are soulmates, you that you were destined to be together. And so therefore, you shouldn't wait, you should get immediately to the next step. And so they look to get to that next step and lock you in as fast as possible. You know, whether it's going to Vegas to get married, or locking you into being a business partner right away, which was my situation. And, you know, and I always remind people, they don't attach themselves to you, because you have so little value, they attach themselves to you, because you have so much value, even though they're devaluing you right away, they look for someone who's going to be a great source of supply for them, whether it's making them look good, or giving them, you know, their ego looks good, because you're there with you, or they are looking, you're going to be a great business partner for them, because you're going to feed them a lot of things, or you're going to be a great romantic partner, because you're either going to give them lots of adulation, or you look good on their arm, or you have lots of money or whatever it's going to be, right? So they they look for someone who's going to feed something within them, because there's so empty inside.

Lesley Logan 11:41  

I love that you said that. I hope everyone's like heard that. They aren't targeting you or picking you because you have little value, it's because you have so much, it's because they see something that they can use in you and I think that's such an important thing to say, because I do hear especially women, they're like, how did I get in this situation again? How did this happen? It's like, well, it's not necessarily that every single one has, like they're not carrying a narcissistic flag for you to see, like, there's here's your red flag for that. But, and also, it's very flattering, but I think we can get so hard on ourselves, when we find ourselves in this situation, I don't know if like, if you or people you've worked with, like, get, like find themselves like blaming themselves for putting themselves in a situation with a narcissist.

Rebecca Zung 12:22  

Well, of course they do. But you know, you can't blame yourself, because they're really, really good. I mean, one of the other things they have this amazing skill at is what we call mirror neurons. I mean, they are very, very good at reading people. And so they know how to read you and become exactly what it is that you want, exactly what it is that you need. And they also are good at spotting your kind of core wounds and, and being sort of the salve for those core wounds at that time, you know, I can tell that, you know, you had this or whatever, and I will love you forever, you know, I will be the one I can be your savior, I can love you. You know, and then if, especially if you also have this need to save this person, you know, and they had something in their childhood or whatever, you know, they'll be that thing so that you can go I can save you, I will love you, I will pour all of this into you. And they're very very good at that too. And so it becomes this you know very symbiotic type of relationship almost from the beginning.

Lesley Logan 13:57  

Yeah, yeah, I can picture that. So I guess like obviously you have you know, so many videos and all of your books but one of the things I was thinking about one that I want to do on the show is like trying to be the person you want to be like acting as if like taking making your new company or trying to leave a job or whatever it is. Unfortunately, we might encounter a narcissist or end up we maybe were already in a relationship with one how do you like what are your step suggestions or tips for people who are trying to do like be themselves go off try something new and then yet they have a narcissist around them? Like is there something that they can do say, are there steps that they can do? 

Rebecca Zung 14:37  

You mean what can they do to you know, get started?

Lesley Logan 14:41  

Yeah, I guess started or like or how I guess maybe the next question and maybe that's where my brain is going is like what happens when they're like taking on their goals and a narcissist is trying to hold them back.

Rebecca Zung 14:53  

Yeah, well, I mean, that's gonna happen. I mean, we're kind of like jumping from one end of the relationship to the other. Yeah, you know, and I kind of feel like maybe I should fill in the gap a little bit between that because they, you go from that love bomb stage, which is what I was sort of talking about at the beginning there, even though there's nothing to do with love, it's really all a manipulation to the devalue stage to the discard stage. And it's not linear, by the way, I mean, they kind of jump from one to back to the other, whenever they need to. 

Rebecca Zung 15:35  

And so, then when you get into that discard phase, whether you're discarding or they are, you've been so conditioned, at that point. And your brain is, you know, so it's so difficult for you, at that point to it. It's really hard. You know, sometimes people refer to it as like cognitive dissonance, because your brain is I mean, even if you are, it doesn't matter how smart you are, how powerful you are in your regular life. I mean, I've talked to women who are hospital administrators, or CEOs or whatever, who are dealing with a narcissistic partner, it doesn't matter. It's, you know, like you said, it's a cult mentality. So you can't just go, I'm done over here, I'm gone, you know, so I say, step one, don't run step two, make a U-turn, step three, break free, because you really kind of, I call it like, riding a ship, you know, you, you have to vary in small steps, turn it around, facing, then you're facing the other person, and then you can break free. You know, you can't just do it all at once. Because I feel like if you just tell somebody, you got to do it all at once, then they feel like a failure again. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah.) And you don't want anybody to feel like they're a failure or feel guilty or feel worse on themselves. You know, I mean, you know, I always tell people don't feel bad about choices that you made. When you were in survival mode. Right? (Lesley: Yeah.) You know, you're in, you got you're here you are, where you are, they were really good at what they did, as far as love bombing you into this situation, and, and then you made choices when you were in survival mode at the time, right? So just step one, don't run, start creating boundaries. And the first set of boundaries is usually probably just, you can't speak to me that way. Right, and just start recognizing what is going on. In the situation, whether it's a business relationship, or a personal relationship, and start looking at it almost as a third party as almost like observationally, when you can start looking at it from an observational point of view, almost as if you're like seeing it, and going, I can see that you are upset, I can see that you're angry. We can resume this when you're less upset, you know, observing their behavior, rather than taking it personally. (Lesley: Yeah.) Because recognizing that hurt people hurt people. You can't ever take anything anybody ever does personally. I mean, one of my favorite books, by the way, is the Four Agreements, (Lesley: Oh my gosh, best book.) Yeah, four agreements that you make with yourself. And one of them is never to take anything personally because the way people treat others is always a reflection of the way they feel about themselves.

Lesley Logan 19:12  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100%. 

Rebecca Zung 19:15  

Just start observing their behavior, and you can even observe it to them. And you know, one of the things I always say that you can say to them is I agree with you. I agree with you. That that's what you think. I agree with you that you believe that. You don't have to agree with that. (Lesley: Yeah. Yeah.) I agree that that is your opinion.

Lesley Logan 19:43  

I love these Rebecca, because I think one, I think people think I have to get out of here. That isn't actually you have to go back and get your things. Whatever, that's your office (inaudible), like the it's not always possible to run. Second, I think what you're suggesting here is like just putting those boundaries up what a great muscle to practice and do and feel empowered when and then strengthen you to do that U-turn that you mentioned and then, and then break free. So I think that that's actually probably not what people do for the first step. But as you in that way you explain it, it makes the most sense for people to feel strong and confident when they do leave.

Rebecca Zung 20:22  

Yeah, because, you know, the first step is just some boundaries in place, right? So and, you know, if you are in a romantic situation, change your passwords, get your stuff together, make a plan, get a stash of cash, you know, whatever it is that you need to do, but that's your first step. Right? And even just boundaries as far as how they're speaking to you. That's even that for some people is a big step. But that's a great step. A great step. And by the way, I have phrases for people if they want phrases for disarming narcissist that are free. (Lesley: Oh, I love that.) Yeah, they can go to disarmthenarc.com and get them for free.

Lesley Logan 21:11  

Perfect. Thank you so much. We'll put that in the show notes, everyone, because that sounds awesome.

Rebecca Zung 21:16  

Yeah, yeah. And like the one I just gave you, I agree with you is on there. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 21:22  

So then step two, the U-turn. Like, what does that look like?

Rebecca Zung 21:27  

So that's like the next step. And you know, and in my slay methodology, which is strategy, leverage, anticipate and focus on you. That's sort of like all part of this. But you know, you can't even start to create a strategy until you're like, okay, how can I start putting boundaries in place, right? And so, layering into this as I can start to make a U-turn, and I can start to build a strategy here, which is create a vision, and a goal, and I know where I'm going, and I can create action steps, and I can, you know, start working toward those action steps and I can have, I can figure out what my leverage is going to be. And, you know, all of that is part of making that U-turn, right? Anticipating where the narcissist is going to go and be being two steps ahead of them. What kind of narcissism I'm actually dealing with? Is it a covert, is it grandiose, is it malignant? Because they attack a little bit differently. And you can actually create a plan around each one, you know, and, and then the why is focusing on you, and your mindset, and you being on the offensive instead of the defensive all the time is so important because that's when you actually break free. And the bottom line is that they're the true breaking free, the true breaking free, is understanding that there will always be narcissists in this world, and they will always be toxic. And if you can be like a tree that sort of, you know, flexible, and but I stand here, and I don't move, you're there, and you just kind of go around me. And I don't I see you and I smile, and you don't have any effect on me. That's the true breaking free. Right? I mean, yeah, that's, that's really where you want to go. Yeah, they're always going to be around, they're always going to be here. 

Lesley Logan 23:47  

They will and I, you are right. And I you know, and I keep coming back to this, like when we talk to different guests about different topics, the what it all comes down to is like, we have to know ourselves so well, that we can own the space that we're taking up and not let whether it's a narcissist or anyone push you around, like, Okay, well, I can let the breeze your words can breeze right by my leaves. But I'm these are my roots. And I'm standing here. And I think that like, that's so hard for so many people to trust that they get to take up their own space. You know?

Rebecca Zung 24:22  

I mean, the truth of the matter is that, I mean, when I went back to I have a business coach that was also sort of my guru in judo. She's been with me for years and years. And she, when I went back to her after I had dealt with this narcissist, and she said to me, you know, Rebecca, it's not what narcissists say, it's how it lands for you. And I said, what, what does that mean? And she said, Well, if somebody calls you a banana you'd be like, I'm not a banana. So okay, whatever. But if they say something to you, and it hurts you, it's because you feel something there. It's something you still need to heal. Right? So it's not what they're saying. It's, it's you. (Lesley: Yeah.) And, and really, it's a signal to you, it's a message to you of what you still need to heal inside. So that that's, that's the beautiful thing in some ways, it's a gift, I mean, I got such a gift from this person, because, you know, the, the true message in all of this is know who you are. Know who you are first. And then and then when they come along, and you be like, okay, whatever. You mean nothing to me.

Lesley Logan 26:00  

Yeah, that is, I you know, when people I know people get all upset, like, everything happens for you. But like, if it if this situation helped you get to know yourself so much that like no other person can, can just like disrupt you from where you are. Like, isn't, I would say, now the impact you're having because of that to help other people. It's kind of amazing. It's kind of like a thing that happened for you and for others.

Rebecca Zung 26:27  

Yeah, I mean, I can't say that I'm perfect with that. No, I always joke that I can never leave my thoughts unsupervised. Y'all. (Lesley: Yeah, I understand that.) Like, you know, reminded, I have to, you know, I in fact, did the opening of my podcast. You know, because I have a podcast called Negotiate Your Best Life. I always say the very first negotiation you have to do is with yourself for your own self-worth in the morning. You know, I mean, you don't have to always be vigilant, I think. 

Lesley Logan 27:08  

Yeah, thank you for saying that. Because I think it might, for my perfectionist, you might be like, did it, check the box, I remember, I got really mad. I was I was having a phone call with someone and in my family, and I got really mad, and I was so mad at myself for getting really mad. And I literally texted my therapist. I'm like, I need an emergency call. She said, I said, here's what happened. Here's the plan. And she's like, it's actually okay, to get mad at that person. What's not okay is that you got mad at yourself for getting mad at that person. And she's like, so there is the highlighter for where we have to do some more work. And so it's just, I think, what is really amazing about dealing with people that frustrate us, or narcissist or anything is like, they are helping us see the places we have more work to do, where we can go deeper with ourselves, having get to know ourselves more, and then be a better person to those people who deserve to have those gifts shared with them.

Rebecca Zung 28:04  

No doubt, no doubt. I mean, I actually in my new book, it's called Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win, I actually thanked the narcissist. (Inaudible) And the people who bullied me as a kid, you know? Yeah. I mean, you gotta be grateful you have to have gratitude. Because, I mean, I am certainly not perfect, I still have a long way to go. I mean, you know, I have the perfectionist and control tendencies, which, honestly, that to me, for me, not speaking for you speaking for me, is a signal of, you know, still dealing with worthiness issues, having to hustle for your worthiness, and all that sort of thing, which I still struggle with, too, and you know, not, you know, wanting, just wanting to, you know, show up as myself and be authentic about that. And, you know, it's it's still a thing that I want to really be the best I can.

Lesley Logan 29:19  

Yeah, it's been funny for like, the perfectionist or trying to, that are trying not to be perfectionist or trying to be the best at not being perfectionist.

Rebecca Zung 29:26  

Yeah, it's so true. It's such a dichotomy, isn't it?

Lesley Logan 29:32  

Yeah, it really it really is. I in the beginning of the show, we talked about how like, perfect is boring, like take messy action, right? And so the reason I say this, because it's like a reminder to myself every day, like perfect is actually really boring. Like nobody really wants to, like, come into a perfect space. I don't know where to sit down. They don't know if they can touch anything (inaudible) they can't mess it up. So, but I like you, it's like, we're not there yet. That's why I keep saying it. It's my own mantra.

Rebecca Zung 30:00  

It's true. It's so true. But you know, just trying to show up as authentically as I can. That's, you know, really the most important thing.

Lesley Logan 30:10  

Yeah. So, um, you know, you mentioned your book, and I definitely want to chat about it in a little bit. But you mentioned you have to thank, like thank the bully and

Rebecca Zung 30:19  

Not just them, other people, too. 

Lesley Logan 30:22  

Other people. What? What was that like when you put the pen to paper? Because I'm sure before you did that, like you've done some work to like, let that go. But like, what did it feel like to put that out in the it's gonna be out in the world for them to see, too?

Rebecca Zung 30:39  

Well, it is out there already in pre-order. Yeah. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 30:44  

So how did it feel to you? Did it feel freeing? Did it feel like empowering where you're like, Yep, I, I'm so glad that I'm done with that. What did it feel like?

Rebecca Zung 30:53  

I it is, I am so excited about this book, because I just really want it to help as many people as possible. I just I know, because of the unbelievable growth of my YouTube channel. And the, the, literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of texts and emails and emails and DMs and messages that I get on a weekly basis of people, people whose lives I've touched. I mean, to be honest with you, like when I first started this whole journey, I had said to my husband, I'm like, I don't know if I want to be the narcissism queen. Like this is like so not what I think I want to do, you know, I'm gonna teach negotiation, that's what I'm gonna do. And then when I started getting all of these messages of people who were like, I was going to commit suicide, and you saved me. You saved me from losing my children, you saved me from being bullied at work, or, you know, things really unbelievable, powerful messages. I was really starting to feel like so humbled at the role that I've been playing just through my messages through my videos, through my courses through my all the things that I've been doing. And I just thought, okay, maybe I was meant to do this. And so I'm so excited about this book. (Lesley: Yeah) I feel like the stars have aligned in so many ways, Chris Voss actually wrote the foreword for me. And, yeah, so I'm just so excited.

Lesley Logan 32:47  

I mean, from two and a half years ago to just like, going on, going on YouTube to like, share this one thing, well, while you couldn't do anything else, it's kind of it's actually really amazing. And thank you for sharing like that process of like, do I want to be this person? I? I think not a lot of people know that. Most people do question like, is this the right thing? Is this where I want to go? And, and those messages, it's so empowering. It's almost like, all the stars align so you could be this person for all those people who need it right now.

Rebecca Zung 33:18  

Yeah, yeah. And we get so many more. I hired a COO at the beginning of this year, and he sends me the messages every day, you know, you've got to read this one. You've got to read that one. And I'm like, I know. I know. And he's like, because at the beginning when he first started with me, he's like, I've never seen anything like this before. I've never seen anything like this. The impact you have is unbelievable. And I could just die now. And so that's what keeps me going. Yeah, that's what really is what what they inspire me, they inspire me.

Lesley Logan 33:58  

I understand that. Rebecca I'm so grateful to have you and we'll take a brief break. And we're gonna find out how people can preorder your book, find you follow you listen to your podcast and all of that. 

Lesley Logan 34:09  

All right, well, I for one, I'm so grateful that you went from teach people negotiation, negotiate with narcissists because I have learned so much watching your journey over these last couple of years. I feel I feel this like, you know, fly on the wall before but now it's just really fun to see your face and have this conversation before I let you go. Where can people find you follow you get your book, all those things.

Rebecca Zung 34:31  

So the best place is my YouTube channel which is youtube.com/RebeccaZungEsq. And my Instagram is @RebeccaZung and I've TikTok and LinkedIn and all that good stuff, too. My website is there and my book is in pre-order and you can definitely get that at slaythebully.com and if you pre-order it from there, and do all the things that it says to do on that website, you get, like, almost $400 in bonuses, which is really pretty cool. So definitely check it out.

Lesley Logan 35:08  

That's amazing. We'll put all those in the show notes. Because you all have to do this. I'm so excited for every one of them to have access to that. Okay, you've given us so much great information. And I really do enjoy the step the tips you've given us, but Be It Action is where you go bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Rebecca Zung 35:28  

Well, I mean, I would definitely say the things that I had mentioned, which is, you know, the step one, don't run, step two, make a U-turn, step three, break free. If you don't, one thing that I want to leave people with is that you and you alone, define your value. And I just want to tell like a 32nd story, if you don't mind. (Lesley: I don't.) I had been a lawyer for about eight years. And then I went in as a financial adviser or wealth advisor with Morgan Stanley for about two years. And then I went back to start my law practice. I had a friend who was leaving town and she left me her law practice. She basically like said, here you go, you can have it. And I was like, okay, this is the way I can start my law practice. And, but I was practicing in Naples, Florida, which is kind of a smaller community, but a very affluent sort of community that where all professionals know each other. And I had that business coach that I was mentioning to you. And I said, everybody is gonna think I am such a flake. I said, you know, I was a lawyer, and then I was a financial advisor. And now I'm back to being a lawyer. And I said, everybody's gonna think I'm such a flake. And she said, Rebecca, people will think what you tell them to think. She said, you can tell them to think that you are a flake. Or you can tell them to think that you are the only attorney that has a financial background. Which story so you're actually more qualified than any other family law attorney in town. Which story would you like to tell? And I was like, Oh, well, maybe I'll tell that story. And so within two years, I had actually the top family law practice in Florida, and I was representing billionaires and celebrities and all kinds of people who very clearly we're not gonna be hiring a flake. But I had to show up that way. And if I had showed up as apologetic, I'm a flake. You know, that's how people would have seen me. And so I really, I love to tell people this because people will think what you tell them to think you and you alone, define your value. And maybe it's not an actionable step, but it is such a very, very important lesson that you show up. How you show up is everything, is everything. So it is it's a negotiation step. It's a everything step. And so you and you alone define your value and people will think what you tell them to think.

Lesley Logan 38:24  

I think it's pretty bold one I would look at that as the bold category.

Rebecca Zung 38:28  

Yeah, that's what I want to leave people with.

Lesley Logan 38:32  

Rebecca, thank you so very much for being here. I'm so excited for your book to come out. I will be getting it because after recently going through bullying experience my own I'm like, okay, where's all the bully information? Where are the bully foundations? I can donate to no one should go through this so grateful for you. Thank you for being here. Everyone. How are you going to use these tips in your life tag Rebecca Zung. Tag the Be It pod share this with a friend who you know has a narcissist in their life. You can just like slide it into their text messages so that they can just listen to it and help them out with whatever situation they're in. Thank you all and until next time, be it till you see it. 

Lesley Logan 39:05  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell 39:05  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. 

Lesley Logan 39:05  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo. 

Brad Crowell 39:05  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan 39:05  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. 

Brad Crowell 39:05  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Deep dive into the transformative impact of a gratitude-centric mindset. In this episode, Lesley shared personal sleep struggles, including practical tips on shifting focus from problems to blessings. Listen in to discover how such a simple shift can alter sleep patterns and overall well-being.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Challenging the idea of what constitutes a "win" in life.
• The significance of focusing on what's possible in movement for those with physical limitations.
• Achievement in optimizing your schedule to better suit business goals and personal needs.
• Dealing with sleeplessness and the tools that can help.
• The affirmation practice for the week.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentions, Jennifer Day
• Mentions, Liz Toppan
• Mentions, Gay Hendricks

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:03  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday.

Brad Crowell 0:14  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:18  

Get ready for some wins.

Lesley Logan 0:27  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 2:27  

Hello, Be It babe. It's Fuck Yeah Friday. You made it. You did it. You have had a week, I am sure. I'm sure there's been some great things. I'm sure there's been some shitty things. And I'm sure that those shitty things are like just feeling like they're bigger deals than what the wins were. And so that's why this episode is here to come out on a Friday. Just to remind you that people have wins of all sizes and so do you and my goodness in our way of ditching perfection do we need to ditch that wins can't be celebrated until we've completely achieved everything and it's gonna be the biggest deal of our lives. And if it's not museum-worthy, it's not a win. Bullshit on that. And if you're taking your kid to school today, I'm so sorry. Apparently, this one is full of words. AirPods in. Okay, so here's the deal. I share one of yours, I share one of mine, and then I started adding a little affirmation at the end. In case you were like really struggling for a win. You can say that to yourself. You have something positive going into your weekend, because positivity breeds positivity. Just like negativity is super contagious. So here is some wins of yours. So Jennifer Day, she is in eLevate, and she's an Agency member. And I love this one. So she said I have a complex, loyal client that due to all her various ailments, I've greatly reduced the amount of actual classical work we do together. There is a win coming in, I promise. This client has L5 and L6 views, has had a frozen shoulder in the past that gets aggravated and reduces movement. She more recently was diagnosed with bursitis on not one but both sitting in balance. And she's incredibly anxious and doesn't like to try new things. Due to these different ailments, sitting work and split-like movements have been taken away due to the pain with her bursitis. She is fearful of any kind of flexion rotation with her fusion so we're left with supine, prone, high-kneeling and standing. We used to do sideline but that did become aggravated with her bursitis. Just a pause on this win, if all these words like what the fuck, don't skip ahead, there's a win coming. And this is very Pilates-centric. So the Pilates teachers know what she's talking about. But for the rest of you like if you are someone who is aches and pains. It can feel frustrating and fearful to move. So I want you to keep listening this win because there is one. Okay, back to Jennifer Day. So despite all of this and thanks to eLevate I was able to take her through a full classical workout giving her what her body needs with the limitations that are set and she had fun. We started the foam roller to warm up her back, doing arm reaches, circles and the 100 for the reformer, were able to do footwork on the arches and heels and Pilates stands and parallel she kept on her toes, due to an assist from us, form the ball of (inaudible). Modified coordination work with variations keeping the head down she did feet and straps and reverse knee stretches. She did chest expansion and to the pelvic lift and then we went to the tower for arms and straps. The instructs breathing, chest expansion, long back stretch arms and standing push-ups. Finally finished with the magic circle arms. I had a lot of fun finding all the things we could do in our session instead of focusing on what we couldn't. Thank you. Jennifer Day, thank you for sharing this woman's story thank you for sharing your process because no matter who you are listening to this there is movement accessible for you. Pilates has so many options in it. And those of us who are teachers the more we can focus on what is possible in a body the more fun it is for us the more successful is for them. And for those of you who have aches and pains moving your body is so important to getting rid of those things and also finding strength and stamina. So, thank you Jennifer day and also to your client for letting you find ways to move her and successfully. Okay one more win Liz Toppan. FYF, feeling proud of myself this week for finally condensing my schedule to make more sense for me. Yes, instead of being in another studio with classes, private clients of having weird breaks in between I move some around so now they're right after each other which will give me breaks in the afternoon to focus on other business goals. And she sold out the mat class for LLS Pop-Up Tour and she is all like she almost sold out the workshop, too. I think towards the end it actually did sell out. If I remember correctly so I got really darn close. Liz, the tour was so much fun at your studio. By the way shout it to Liz's studio Pilates Queen in Hanford. It is beautiful. It is amazing, it is welcoming. She has really incredible classes that are super thoughtful for your goals. And so I just had so much being in your space. And I know how hard you've been working on condensing that schedule. I know how how much your studio needs of you and how much you love it and the dedication you have to your client, so good for you. That is a massive win you guys making little tweaks to your schedule here and there to make it work best for you is like the best thing you could do for yourself. So congratulations, Liz. 

Lesley Logan 4:48  

Okay, my win. So here's, I have, I easily could fall asleep most of the time. I'm like okay, I'm gonna go to bed I fall asleep. Like, mid-conversation, no problem. Like, I just, I can't just sleep anywhere I have to be lying down, but I can fall asleep. But some nights my brain just doesn't turn off. And that's usually when I'm upper-limiting. And if you're wondering what that is, there's a great book called The Big Leap, shout out to Gay Hendricks anyone knows him, I want them on my show. At any rate, I all sorts of worry when I'm upper limiting and that will affect me falling asleep, and I'll have stressed dreams and it's like, just not fun. And then I have the worst night's sleep ever. So anyways, I have these systems in place to just really help me sleep I have a sensei alarm. So like starts like looking like if the sun is going down, you know, to make my brain think, okay, it's time to sleep. I have this amazing music that I fall asleep to that's like the earth, I don't know, (inaudible) for whatever. something probably scientific and well, at the same time, I have my sensei that like I fall asleep, too. So like I have these tools in place when my brain doesn't want to shut off. However, oh, last week, my phone's about to die. And I had my sensei alarm. I couldn't find my sensei. I was like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? And so I just started like, listing out everything I was grateful for, in my head. Y'all I woke up the next morning, eight hours later didn't wake up at all. So I started using this and I've had a couple other nights where I'm just like, ooh, a little bit like am I they're not ready to go to bed or my brain still going. And I did start list. I don't write them down. I am a journaler, but I'm not writing them down. Because I'm just trying to like get my brain to go shhh, quiet, close your eyes. And it has been so much fun because I it's like incredible what you can when you start to open up the muscle of gratitude, like how many things you can find to be grateful for in a day. And sometimes wins can sound like a little bit like, I'm now braggy and like maybe you're raised to be humble. So gratitudes can be another way of Fuck Yeah Friday for you. So anyways, that is my win I've been listening on gratitudes and it's helping me sleep. And here's something I remember from my therapist many moons ago. Gratitude and judgment cannot live in the same place. So if you're judging all over yourself, start to be grateful for some things and you'll notice that the judgment disappears. And you're full of positivity in this gratitude space and what a great place to make decisions and take action from and be it till you see it from there. And now, your affirmation for the weekend. I breathe in trust, I exhale doubt. And so you can say that out loud five times. You can write that down in your journal over and over again. You can actually sit there and actually breathe in trust. And exhale, doubt. And remember, action is the antidote to fear. So love you all so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to the IT pod. Thank you for sharing it with your friends. That is how we get more downloads, we get more listeners, and then we can get bigger guests like maybe Gay Hendricks and some other people. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you and make sure you share your wins with a friend or with us we can shout you out here on this podcast. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. 

Lesley Logan 7:48  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 7:48  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:48  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 7:48  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 7:48  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 7:48  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Dive with Lesley and Brad into the intricate world of cults and their underlying psychology. Gain insights into the red flags and concept of bounded choices that hint at cult-like behaviors.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Key red flags to be aware of when entering a group.
• Traits of cults and steps to take if you’re entangled in one.
• Strategies to ensure your group or business remains cult-free.
• Tips on selecting trustworthy people to associate with.
• The significance of visualizing your desired future and planning in reverse.

Episode References/Links:

• Join Our Coaching Team For Seven Days Of Tackling Your Biz Struggles
• Cambodia Pilates Retreat
• Join our email list!
• Free Webinar
• Daniella Mestyanek Young’s website
• Ep 27: Is Your Hustle Now Just a Hassle? (ft. Kareen Walsh)

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

Amy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs"

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

One of the things to like be aware of is they do things in a coercive place, and she called it bounded choice. So you think you have fear, you start you think you have freedom, but really, there's this coercive control. There's this like pressure, like you think you could, like, maybe not come on a Thursday, but then everyone's like, "Why aren't you here?"

Lesley Logan 0:12  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:19  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap where my co-host and my friend and I are going to talk about the illuminate (Brad: The what?)

Lesley Logan 0:20  

Leave it in. The illuminative. I saw that and I was like this is not gonna go out (Brad: Illuminative.) Illuminative? (Brad: Yeah.) You're gonna put that before her name? (Brad: Yeah.) Convo I had with Daniella Mestyanek Young. In our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen now. And like, I know I said this every week, but fucking go listen to that one.

Brad Crowell 0:47  

Oh, it's a great episode. 

Lesley Logan 0:48  

She is amazing. And since then, she has been quoted in the, it was it was the Washington Post or The Wall Street Journal. Either one is still like, like badass like, not just like one quote, like, they did a whole profile on her because of like, like, because of the expertise she has in this topic. And so anyways, we're gonna get a little culty here. Well, actually, we're gonna get unculty is what we're gonna do in this episode.

Brad Crowell 1:16  

So congratulations. You're all cult members now? 

Lesley Logan 1:20  

No, no, we are not a cult. We are a group. We are just a group.

Brad Crowell 1:25  

I know what it's the opposite of everything that she stands for. We are a group. That's what she stands for. We're just a group. 

Brad Crowell 1:32  

We're just a group. It's a good group.

Lesley Logan 1:33  

You know, I think we talked about this in the podcast, we're going to do a segment she asked like, before we hit record, like, is Pilates like culty? And I said, oh, it can be (Brad: And you laughed.) I laughed. (Brad: Yeah.) I totally laughed. I said, it can be. It's like a scuff. Like a true scuff, right? And recently, I was traveling somewhere and it like, there are some people that might think that they're like part of a group. But like, if you can't go to another person's thing, because of the group you're in, that's a cult. (Brad: That's a cult.) You should be able to go and explore other groups without offending people in your group anyways,

Brad Crowell 2:10  

No, in no way shape, or form is one person 100% correct. (Lesley: No.) Literally not possible.

Brad Crowell 2:18  

I am on a fucking mission when it comes to the Pilates industry. And I'm, you know, I'll I'll probably die trying but I just I want people it's supposed to be fun. It's a fucking workout. And like you're never supposed to stop learning. And you can not agree with someone who could not like something that they do or the way that they do it. That doesn't mean you could only like someone else. Anyways, today is September 21, 2023. And it's World Gratitude Day. And this day aims to remind us of the importance of expressing gestures of thanks and appreciation. (Brad: I'm grateful for the 12 apostles of Pilates.)

Lesley Logan 2:57  

Hear you now. I actually really like this, because ways you can express gratitude, just like just just maybe like, maybe for maybe for the day, like, just set a reminder, like set a note that when you're procrastinating to just text, anybody in your contacts list. Hey, you know what, thanks for saying that one thing a month ago, I just thought of you. And I really remember when you said that, like, just try for one day to sending random acts of gratitude in your text messages. You have no idea whenever I get those from a friend. (Brad: Yeah.) It's like they always come at the time where you're like,

Brad Crowell 3:31  

You need them the most. 

Lesley Logan 3:32  

When you're like, why the fuck do I even exist?

Lesley Logan 3:36  

So anyways, not to be dramatic. But seriously, it's really true. And, you know, and something that I did while I was traveling is I was like, waiting for a door to open. So I was scrolling through stories, which is like something I never do. And there was people who are posting things that are friends of mine or tangentially. And like, instead of responding in their DMs I texted them, my response would be in their DMs. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, because it's way more fun to text back and forth you know I did some voice text messages. Anyway, I could have done it. I could have done it, the DMs but it's complicated. And so I just, I also want people to see in there. I don't want people to scare their text messages. Like, you know, anyways, (inaudible) today. 

Brad Crowell 4:15  

Yeah, I mean, even even if you don't have a specific thing that you're grateful for about them, just texting them and say, hey, I was thinking about you. Yeah, is magic. Yes. You know, so and I really encourage you to make a habit of if somebody pops into your head, tell them and you don't have to tell them what you thought about you can but it could just be like, hey, I was thinking about you hope you're loving life. 

Lesley Logan 4:41  

Did we talk about this on the podcast about Tasha? 

Brad Crowell 4:43  

We, actually we have, a couple weeks ago, 

Lesley Logan 4:47  

Okay, yeah, I'm not kidding. Like me just thinking I just we we made a funny little voice note. I'm like, we're in my dreams. And it was like the thing she needed for that. 

Brad Crowell 4:57  

Yeah, that was uplifting. Yeah. anyways, today's World Gratitude Day so you know, (Lesley: Go be grateful.) Do it. Be fucking grateful. 

Lesley Logan 5:05  

This is your cult leader speaking. (Brad: Be grateful.) It felt like you were doing the as you wish.

Brad Crowell 5:19  

Yeah, right.

Lesley Logan 5:21  

We also we literally just wrapped up Agency Mini 9. Wow. Wow. Wow. So much fun. And I am going to have to learn how to like voice to text my computer for at least a week to get my finger.

Brad Crowell 5:34  

Oh, that's my jam. That's what I do now.

Lesley Logan 5:36  

I know I just don't think that any of the things understand my words at all. At all. 

Brad Crowell 5:44  

Well, you can blame Siri for that.

Lesley Logan 5:46  

I don't know, maybe I don't speak English well.

Brad Crowell 5:49  

I think you're just fine. I think you're just fine.

Lesley Logan 5:52  

Well, Siri doesn't understand my accent. Anyways, we just wrapped it up. It was phenomenal. It was fucking amazing. It's brilliant. If you're like, Oh, my God, I missed it. You did? And the next one isn't until probably in six months. I don't actually have the dates in front of me. I don't think we've set them. And the truth is we do it twice a year. But we've been constantly only doing once a year. And we're where are we got a big team meeting coming up. So get on the waitlist. And we'll let you know when the next one is, it's profitablepilates.com/mini. And I'll put you on the waitlist for that. Anyways, you guys were amazing. You're awesome. And my only ask is that you take some action this week, take messy action. Take that information, because once you start to take action with it becomes less overwhelming.

Brad Crowell 6:34  

If you're wondering what Mini is it's a seven day brief snippet of our fitness business coaching program.

Lesley Logan 6:41  

I thought they were all on the cult. 

Brad Crowell 6:42  

Yeah. No, we're not speaking a language that only cult members know. And it will help you lay the foundation of who you are, what it is that you do what you actually offer, who you're trying to connect with. And then how do you communicate that in a way that attracts those clients to you? And that's the key. You know, once you understand those things, what do you do with it? It's how you put that all out there and the way that you're speaking and the things that you're saying are going to attract the clients that you want to work with. So it's like an amazing week. It's absolutely worth you like exploring that. Whether you've been in business for two months or 20 years. You should do agency mini. So get yourself on the waitlist go to profitablepilates.com/mini.

Lesley Logan 7:28  

Yeah. And then we're a couple weeks away from getting our passes on the plane. Yeah, going to Cambodia, we'll be there for a while. (Brad: I could not wait) and it's actually gonna be really exciting because they've been making some massive changes to the infrastructure there. (Brad: Yeah, crazy changes.) Part of me is like, I really I'm grateful for the sidewalks it does mean I won't get ran over by tuk-tuk. But also, like there was something cool about like, walking (Brad: Field adventures.) while massive, like, huge buses like just like going by. (Brad: It totally do.) So anyways, we are so excited to be going there. We've got an incredible group, our house is full. If you are like someone who's like makes

Brad Crowell 8:10  

We're taking one of the two rooms that our manager has. (Lesley: Oh, we are?) Yeah. (Lesley: We moved her out? (Brad: Well, not moved her out. But she sent her kids to her dad's their dad's place.) (Lesley: Oh, that's amazing.) Yeah. Because we needed the rooms. 

Lesley Logan 8:25  

Yeah. Well, that's so cool. So anyways, we'll be there for a few weeks. And if you are wanting to go on the next one, because the reality is, is that unless you really love flying (inaudible) and booking a trip across the world in two weeks, or maybe you live in Thailand, you want to come if you visit LesleyLogan.co/retreat.

Brad Crowell 8:43  

Very easy to come from Singapore, PS.

Lesley Logan 8:44  

Yeah, and also like (Brad: Singapore, India, you know, it's all very quick.) Yeah, it's all very, very quick. You can also come from any other place in the world. It's just a little longer. And then November, we'll be I'll be in Chicago, with Erika Quest. So we've got some workshops going on over there. 

Brad Crowell 9:04  

 And stay tuned on the Instagrams for that. 

Lesley Logan 9:06  

Yeah, or our email list. So you can do that.

Brad Crowell 9:11  

Go to opc.me/email. 

Lesley Logan 9:13  

Oh, perfect. Do that. And then we'll on December, we'll be back on our winter tour. We're actually in meetings as we, as this episode drops on what that tour is going to look like and cities and all that. So we should have those details out. And they will be of course announced here, but mostly if you are on that, if you're on the email, 

Brad Crowell 9:32  

Yeah, but it's actually opc.me/emails I got that wrong. It's plural,

Lesley Logan 9:36  

Plural, plural. This team will get it. Okay. We want to get all into Daniella but firstly, the audience question. 

Brad Crowell 9:44  

We do, we have a question. So this week, we had a question from when you were recently in Poland, and you were there teaching a workshop and it was basically was mostly about Controllogy right. I mean, it was a, it was a classical Pilates conference. Yes, it was you and Karen Frischmann. And then also Jay zoomed in, right. Yes. Jay zoomed in. So fun. Yeah, amazing. 

Lesley Logan 10:10  

It was so fun. I thought he was just gonna like do a Q&A. Because Jimmy Buffett died. I wouldn't had margaritas with a couple girls for like, I don't know, Jimmy Buffett is like, Oh, my God, we must have margaritas. And we had a margarita upstairs. We came downstairs, I jumped into the mat class.

Brad Crowell 10:25  

Oh, like you do?

Lesley Logan 10:27  

I was so sore the next day, but I think it actually helped me relax.

Brad Crowell 10:32  

Well, the question that you got there was, how is it possible that you do all the things that you do and still have a life? How do you balance your work and your life?

Lesley Logan 10:41  

So I love this question. Shout out to Ivana, she asked, actually, she asked Jay, a really awesome question similar to this. She asked him like, what do you do about the clients who just want you to like, work them out? You know? And so he was on us? And then she was just like a question. Like, I think people have these questions, and they don't ask it. So clearly, people think I have work life balance, and I'm gonna tell you right now, balance is a lie. And when I told so here's just, here's the thing, our yoga teacher, Brad, he told us that balance is the art of not falling over, right? Like in a handstand, or a headstand, the ability to hold that is you maneuver in between, like leaning too much one way and then you correct and then you might overcorrect and things like that. And so what what I try to get people to understand is like, stop striving for balance. Also, what balance is to you on a Monday is very different to what balance to use on Friday. Or if you have kids, maybe there's a different version of balance when they're in school versus when they're at home. And so, so I don't search for balance, I search for making sure my schedule fills my cup, every single day. So I can show up for what the task is at hand. And I tried to make sure it's really hard for us, because there's two of us. And so sometimes when you're working it's different than when I'm working. And sometimes you have a question about work. And I'm like, but I'm not working right now. The answer is this is first, we actually do have a free webinar about how I create a schedule, which also talks about my scheduling tool, but you can just you can enjoy that or just watch that. I think it's called I think it's is it ditchingbusy.com?

Brad Crowell 12:25  

Yeah, I was just looking that up almost positive. That's what it is. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 12:28  

So did you ditchingbusy.com. It's a free webinar. It's all my business stuff. But like, it explains how I created a schedule, (Brad: It is. ditchingbusy.com) So it's free, go enjoy. It's how I create a schedule. Yeah. It's also something I teach in Agency Mini, but what every morning has in it are the things that helped me fill my cup, so I can show up for the rest of the day. And I also know the signs that I'm out of balance. And I think that's very important. What are the symptoms that you like? Are you cranky? Do you snap at people? Are you exhausted at the end of the day? What are those signs, so that you can actually look at the next day and see if there's anything you can take off your plate. And ladies, I know you don't like to cancel your friends, like you want to be that person. But you can just say, I'm actually really overwhelmed right now. And there's nothing more I want to do is see you but you don't want to see me right now. Because I'm not going to be the best awesome person. That is way better than us showing up. What Why are you laughing?

Brad Crowell 13:24  

Just remembering that dinner? (Lesley: What dinner?) The one where we had someone tell us that they just weren't ready to be present in this exact moment. So I'm gonna excuse myself.

Lesley Logan 13:37  

Yeah, she already called an Uber by the way. I you know, it's part of me and like, it's like,

Brad Crowell 13:42  

I look preempted, don't show up. And then please

Lesley Logan 13:45  

Try to do it before you get there. Anyways, because like also, it just is so weird. But the reality is you have the more you get to know yourself. And the more you acknowledge like that, when you just say like, I am not imbalanced right now I am out of balance that can take a whole load off and then ask yourself, what are the what what happened to get you here? Are you maybe like when we have a launch going on? You think Agency Mini is balance? No, no. Here's what we do, though. So we can show up. We have our morning routines are on point, we have our food delivered. We do not miss our workouts, but we do not go out to dinner with people. We do not

Brad Crowell 14:27  

We try to we try to remove everything else that from the entire week if we if we possibly can.

Lesley Logan 14:32  

Yeah, if we possibly can. We're really clear like the beginning of the week, we can probably have a meeting or two but towards the end of the week. It's an absolute zero, no, nothing other than that. But the week before and the week after we are we're giving ourselves we'll also give ourselves an opportunity to get things ready so we can be so we're sleeping where we're making sure we have time to ourselves. In fact, we take days off. So the point of this is to sum it up too long to read watch the webinar and to stop trying to find balance. And just be honest with yourself. Are you in a season where you're building something up? (Brad: Yeah) If so, what are you going to do to rest and repair and refuel. And if you're in a season of like, hey, everything's flowing smooth, then enjoy that, and let your creativity juices fly, but stop going, oh my God, I've gotta like, every days with the perfect day, this is not the 1950s. And by the way, y'all they were not actually that happy. All the movies make it look, they're so happy. They were having Manhattan's every night, and like not telling each other was going on. So

Brad Crowell 15:32  

I think I think the the idea of like, balance with work and life, ultimately, it comes down to the decision you make in and what's going to what, what's too much you'll know, because you're very unhappy, your fried or your you know, all those things. And realizing, you know, when you've crossed that threshold of holy cow, because like, you know, I mean, we are business owners, right? We, we work all day, work all day, every day. But we don't think about it that way. I'm not like if something breaks at 10pm. Guess what I have to fix it, have to, you know, so but, you know, I might take two to 3pm and take a walk, you know, so it's your choice of what you're doing and when you're doing it, and what you need to realize is that you're that's what that balance is is like, hey, you know what, I have a light afternoon, I think I'm gonna take advantage of it. Like last Friday, I went out to lunch with our neighbor. And I mean, I haven't seen him in like six months. So it's weird that we will live next to each other and we never get the chance to go out. But I didn't have any meetings booked, which is abnormal. And I was like, let's take advantage of this and actually take the afternoon. And we went and we just hung out. Right and so sometimes that happens and other times I have to work during the afternoon and that's okay. 

Brad Crowell 15:54  

Yeah. And then just like a quick tip if you are someone who's an overscheduler you see an empty space in your calendar, you're like yes, I can fit that in. Then you to block in like actual like schedule actual rest breaks. You also cannot

Brad Crowell 17:12  

I had to put lunch directly into my schedule. I don't remember to do if I don't have lunch in my schedule. I forget to eat. 

Lesley Logan 17:18  

I think we did that two years ago. And it was like one of the best things that ever happened for either one of us. Yes, No body books calls. Anyways, there's just different hacks you have to do and then also just because the people around you are hustling like crazy, doesn't mean that you're hustling something different. That reminds me what ended on this Kareen, Episode 53? She was at 53.

Brad Crowell 17:39  

I'm we're gonna find out.

Lesley Logan 17:41  

She said might have been 23 but I feel like it's 53 I feel like she wasn't as early as everyone else. My friends, but she said

Brad Crowell 17:51  

You were definitely off the mark, 27. (Lesley: 27. 20 was my second guess.) She was early. Episode 27 Kareen Walsh.

Lesley Logan 18:00  

She said, "Don't let your hustle become a hassle." And I think when she said that, that's kind of like a like a thing. Like if I feel really big, I'm working really hard. If it starts to feel like a hassle, like, oh my God, then I go, okay, what's going on here? Yeah. When did I say yes to these things? I think ladies, we tried to do everything like that, that I, somebody just followed, posted something because like, I don't know which magazine but Paris Hilton was on the cover. And they're like, look, she's like, rock and being a mom and a full-time business owner and this she's got all the things figured out. And I was like, What the fuck? When are we going to stop telling ladies that that's possible? No fucking way Paris Hilton has it all figured out? No offense, Paris. You're awesome. But there's, you have nannies. You have housekeepers. You have chefs, you have cooks, you have someone organizing your sets. The way they wrote the title was a Paris Hilton is like doing it all. And she can because she has a team. So if you are solo, you cannot do it all. You can only do what is possible in the amount of time you have. And the more you take care of yourself, the more you can get things done, period. Okay, now.

Brad Crowell 19:11  

Let's move on.

Lesley Logan 19:13  

Send your questions into the pod. We love them.

Brad Crowell 19:16  

Yeah, ask those questions. 

Lesley Logan 19:17  

We love them.

Brad Crowell 19:18  

Okay, now let's talk about Daniella Mestyanek Young, a former intelligence officer, renowned scholar on cults and the compelling voice behind the memoir, Uncultured. Her life journey from the confines of a religious sect cult to the frontlines of the US Army is a testament to resilience and the power of transformation. (Lesley: She's a badass.) She's badass. (Lesley: She's an intelligence officer in the military)

Brad Crowell 19:43  

In her like mid to late 20s. 

Lesley Logan 20:04  

Yes, yeah. Yes. And that's, by the way, (Brad: who is in the field) who is in the field. She was one of the first women allowed in field. And also she ran a virtual Boston Marathon and she won for the military. (Brad: Really?) And like, yes, yes. (Brad: How do you do that?) And she met Obama, and she was one of the few officers like invited. Yeah. Oh, no, no way. Yeah, you gotta listen to the book. You got to do it. We like we have like, this is, by the way. This is badass. Like, like, you know, fucking amazing human being. I listened. I found her on a cult show I listened to and I DM-ed her and she was like, Yeah, sounds so fun. And she like, I was just like, oh my god, I'm getting Daniella on the show. So great. Anyways, um, she's just really honest. And also she had all of that without having a formal education guys. She didn't go to school until high school. So, yeah. (Brad: Oh, I didn't know that.) No, the Children of God don't teach them how to read anything. Yeah, anyways. Okay, you gotta read the book. Warning, it is difficult. They're like, if you there's a trigger on like, the sex abuse that is in there. But it's also so important that we actually know what these places are doing. Because you got to know the science guys, you gotta know the science. So go read the book. So okay, I love so many things. But she she gave advice on what a cult disguise could look like. And of course, she said nobody joins a cult. And that's true.

Brad Crowell 21:34  

Yeah, that I found. I found really interesting. You know that you don't realize that it is what it is.

Lesley Logan 21:41  

Well, everyone else say I would never join a cult. (Brad: Right.) Like, okay, (Brad: Well, me neither.) Well, me neither. Of course not. But like, in L.A. there's so many cults. 

Brad Crowell 21:51  

There are so many cults.

Lesley Logan 21:52  

Oh my god. There's so many cults. 

Brad Crowell 21:54  

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a Erawan cult.

Lesley Logan 21:58  

Shut up. I mean, maybe there's a small one that I don't know who's leading it. But I will say like, there were some books there was there. First of all, NXIVM was notorious for doing their workshops in L.A., there was landmark that everyone in their mother was like trying to get you to come to their graduation, which by the way, was a cult. Sorry, there. But don't sue me. But like there's so many in L.A., obviously, Scientology being the biggest one. (Brad: Right.) Every time we drove by that church, I just like oh, my god, can they see us? Do they have our license plate number? Drive fast. But anyway, she said no one joins a cult, they join a group that is doing something that is feeding their soul. And even there was like yoga classes that were so cultish.

Brad Crowell 22:45  

I just, I gotta hop in here. I just found a Yelp listing for the top 10 Best religious cults near Los Angeles, California.

Lesley Logan 22:58  

Oh, my God is (inaudible). 

Brad Crowell 23:00  

No, I mean, but it's funny. They're like, it's it's a lot of churches.

Lesley Logan 23:04  

Yeah. So but the but people join a place that feeds their soul, they join things that are doing like this. They join things that are like making an impact on the world that aligns with your values. And so she actually said that people listening to this podcast are likely to be people who could end up joining a cult because you are seekers, seekers of information, right. So. So they give you these big missions. And of course, you're a part of it. Now, there are just groups. I like to think that we are just a group. But she said like there are some red flags that you should look into, especially in the recruiting thing. So, we'll kind of get into that in a second. But like, one of the things to like be aware of is they do things in a coercive place, and she called it bounded choice. So you think you have fear, you start you think you have freedom, but really, there's this coercive control. There's this like pressure, like you think you could, like, maybe not come on a Thursday, but then everyone's like, why aren't you here? For example, one of my clients went to this weekend event, and she decided she didn't like it on day two. So she decided to come to my class. And in my call during my class, her phone was texted four times, or four times in an hour going, where are you why didn't you come? Why don't you get on a call with us let's see if we can get you back? It's like, if she can't miss the third day, that she paid for. It is her choice to not be there. If you are like, dragging her back. And there's something weird going on.

Brad Crowell 24:35  

Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to rip rip down the top the 10 things that she does, like how she considers a cult, defines a call. So, number one, there's a charismatic leader. Number two, there's a single sacred assumption that all of the people assume. Number three, there's a transcendent mission. Number four, there's self-sacrifice required. Five limiting access to the outside world six, unique language meaning like, like we were joking about at the beginning of this episode about Agency Mini. And if you don't know what that means, then you're not in the cult, right? Like that's the unique language. Then the next is an us versus them mentality, then exploitation of the members, high exit cost. Maybe you lose your community, your friends, all that you're ostracized. And then lastly, it. It should eventually shifts into an ends justify the means mentality.

Lesley Logan 25:33  

Oh, yeah. So here's what's interesting. While I was in Poland, one of the people was talking to they had, they had stopped working with one of the groups, I won't name it in the Pilates world, because they had this like summit where they brought in all of their teachers. And they said, Well, these things are the things that you can teach. But if you want to teach these things, you have to be part of the inner circle, because we have to trust (Brad: There's a fucking inner circle?) She said, she's got a fucking said inner circle, and like, oh, do they not know how to build a cult, you're not supposed to actually say that. That's the quiet part. You don't say out loud.

Brad Crowell 26:08  

By joke, seriously, like,

Lesley Logan 26:12  

and someone else we coach was like, I want to do this thing. But like, it's not clear if I can do this thing. And there have been people who've done this thing, and they've been kicked out. And there's other people who didn't do this thing. And they didn't get kicked out nice. And the particular thing that she was doing 

Brad Crowell 26:23  

The reality of kicked out, that's the that's one of the problems. I mean, that's a problem. 

Lesley Logan 26:27  

And I said to her, I said, you're in a cult. Now, it might not feel like one but the fact that you can't provide this thing that is in no way a threat to them. And in fact, all it's doing is propelling the mission that should be theirs forward. That scares me for you. (Brad: Yeah.) And the fact that you're worried that you could be ex like excommunicated ex, is that the right word? (Brad: Yeah, basically) that makes me nervous.

Lesley Logan 26:27  

That's very religious, but yes, excommunicated.

Lesley Logan 26:35  

So some people say Pilates is a religion. But at any rate, like it shouldn't, if you have those fears, that can be your own family, by the way, like if there are things you can't say or do or be in your own family, because fear of like them, not speaking to you. That's a little bit culty.

Brad Crowell 27:15  

Yeah, I mean, we were just in England, and we were with one of our members who married someone from India. Oh, and she is from England. And she's not the same religion. (Lesley: Oh, she's Australian) oh sorry, she's Australian living in England, but she's not the same religion. And his family cut them out. (Lesley: Yeah) that's fucking cult. 

Lesley Logan 27:39  

Yeah. So um, so you're probably wondering how can this be it till you see it, because you are a seeker. And I want to make sure you're armed with the right information so that as you're being until you see it, and as you're getting information out there, you don't end up accidentally in a group that is using you, using your amazingness. And we'll talk more about that in the next week's episode. Because that guest on narcissism is amazing. Anyways, I can keep going, but you should tell us what you loved.

Brad Crowell 28:05  

Yeah. So I thought this was interesting, in that she had a couple of examples of cult leaders that you would know that I don't remember their names. But she said, I know the mom. Yeah, I know, you know them all. If people are self-proclaiming that they're a guru. Be cautious. Be aware of this. Because they, you know, when someone puts themselves up on this high pedestal, and then tells you, you know, I am the authority, or I am the guru of the thing. 

Lesley Logan 28:42  

I have all the answers here. I'm the one who knows, I'm the closest to right, you know, yeah.

Brad Crowell 28:48  

Yeah. You know, she said, actually, in fact, coaching can become this. Teachers can become this, you know, anybody that you put in a place of authority, it is, you know, it's she was talking about, like, you could be doing everything right. And then like, somehow it shifts and suddenly it like, becomes a cult and not like a group. Right? So the reality is that if they are out there telling you that they're the only authority that they're the only one or that they know what's right. And they can, they can, they're the only one that can help you like all major warning signs. Yeah, right that you've got somebody who, you know, is totally a narcissist, which we are going to talk about on our next episode, and they are effectively trying to manipulate you. Yeah. Whether they realize they're doing it or not, they're doing it. Right. Whether you realize they're doing it or not, hopefully you can identify that they're doing this. 

Lesley Logan 29:47  

I think after we ended the podcast. So I'm gonna help like, you know, you do sales calls with people. And we're very clear with people like, this might not be the right group for you. And it's not because we don't want to help you. But if we're not the right person, like I've joked on the podcast before like, I'm not a taco not everyone's gonna like me. Sure, that's okay. Because like, there is someone out there who can lead you in all the different things that we do. If it's if I'm not the right one, or it's not the right time. And it's important that people know that. And I think like, I just think it's a little. I know that like, when you're lost, you just want answers. (Brad: Yeah.) But you have to also remember, like you have everything you need inside you. And really just surrounding yourself with people who want to support and guide versus be the hero (Brad: That's key. That's exactly right.) Someone who can guide you from this point to that point. And that doesn't mean once you get to that next point, that they're still your guide, you might pick up a different guide along the way.

Brad Crowell 30:44  

Yeah. And I think that's the that's like, the language that they're using, the way that they portray themselves the way that they perceive themselves, you might not be able to understand all that right away. But you're exactly right, like the person who wants to be there to support you and your growth, and be a guide along a path that they may have already taken. That's a win. But a person who is like, oh, I can show you how I'm the only person that has been where you are, I know how this works. You need to listen to me. That's a problem. You know, so she actually like what are the things I was talking about the 10 things and the 10 definitions, like how she defines a cult. And she said the second one, which I thought was really interesting, is a single sacred assumption. So all the people in the group have this single sacred assumption. And you can't you better not say the other way, because then everyone's gonna be like, What are you saying? Right, the single sacred assumption. So she was talking about NXIVM and Keith Raniere, and he told all of his NXIVM people, I am the smartest man alive. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) And everyone fucking believed him. They just went along with it. So as a group, everyone was like, oh, yeah, Keith. Yeah, he's the smartest man alive. He's the smartest man alive. And it just was like, inherently, indoctrinating all these people with this weird decision that he's like, I'm the smartest man alive. So guess what, everything he says they're gonna fucking do. Because why would you defy the smartest man alive? (Lesley: He's so smart.) Right? So you know, that's like, you know, yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's just really fascinating to listen to this conversation. And then, you know, she talks about how, why she didn't become like a life coach, and instead decided to get degrees was because of her experience, being in cults, and seeing how it's very easy for, like life coaches, or coaches or teachers in general, to cross that boundary and become like cult leaders. 

Lesley Logan 32:55  

I also think that like, it's, it's probably not intentional in the beginning.

Brad Crowell 33:00  

I don't think it starts off intentional, no. 

Lesley Logan 33:02  

In the beginning, because like, I think like, first of all, especially if words of affirmation or your love language, like people are telling you, oh, my God, this helped me and we got this help me and you're like, Oh, my God, if you get this out to everybody, and then like, you keep going. And then at some point, you don't have anyone around you telling me telling you like, no, like, I'll have these ideas. And you guys are very quick to go. I love that idea. Not for now, or actually, like, let's we do that we do this. And not to say that I'm gonna become a cult leader, but I, but like, it's important to have people around you who will like challenge you on your ideas. It doesn't mean I won't fight for them. But it also keeps me from like, just continuing to go as if I'm the only person who knows what the fuck does the right thing to do. Yeah, and then bringing people along with me. And so I don't think people are born going to be a cult leader. But if they can't go that way, because

Brad Crowell 33:56  

Unless you watch the Umbrella Academy, but yes, no. (Lesley: Oh, really? I did not watch that.) You didn't. It's okay. The Umbrella Academy is a sci-fi show where this one of the characters inadvertently becomes a cult leader. And he's like, I love that I'm a cult leader. This is the most amazing thing. It's ridiculous. 

Lesley Logan 34:12  

I watched how to become a cult leader. (Brad: Yeah.) Which is like just like a little satirical, because it's like, obviously it's it's really about like how these people became leaders. And I think it's, I really enjoyed it because in case anybody in your family is in one that can be extremely stressful and it can also take you off your path of like what you're doing on this planet. Because you're you can't snap them out of it like it like you telling them they're in a cult is just going to make them stay. So at any rate, like again, I really wanted to have

Brad Crowell 34:44  

I think I think like liberating people from cults is a whole another conversation. 

Lesley Logan 34:50  

Oh, that's a whole another (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 34:54  

If you're wondering if you're starting a cult right now, chances are unlikely that you are since you have that self-inflection.

Lesley Logan 35:01  

Go. Yeah, it's like the narcissist thing. Go and look at her top 10 things. Read her book which is so so good.

Brad Crowell 35:08  

Oh, which is called Uuncultured. 

Lesley Logan 35:09  

Uncultured. Read her book because I also (Brad: Or listen to it.) I really loved how she shared she used the things that she saw in the people of her of the Children of God, when mistakes happen. And she saw it in the face of the men in the military when something happened. She's like, something's wrong here. Like she knew. (Brad: Yeah.) So like, I think that's really good information. And I again, I wanted to have this person on because I, as you listen to this, and you get inspired by people we've had on the podcast, or and you're working on taking the next step in your life. It's so easy for you to end up go going off your path of being it till you see it and being on someone else's path of a cult. So anyway.

Brad Crowell 35:52  

Yeah, well, let's

Lesley Logan 35:57  

Let's do the Be It Action. 

Brad Crowell 35:58  

Yeah, hang out real quick. We'll be right back. 

Brad Crowell 35:59  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Daniella Mestyanek Young?

Lesley Logan 36:14  

What are your favorites? 

Brad Crowell 36:45  

Yeah, so her bold advice was? Imagine yourself like so. Okay, just to clarify she is, I can't remember what she studied, when she went to school. When she went to Harvard. And anyway, I can't remember exactly what the degree she got. But it was something to do with like, sociology and and the study of people. And she said, imagine yourself when you're 80 and ask, how do you start to backwards plan your life so that you can get to that place? And you know, this is like old school advice. I you know, I've heard about this when I was when I was younger, but it's something that you kind of forget about. Yeah. And I like bringing it back and be and like looking at it and saying, well, what does 80 look like for me? Do you want to be surrounded with like, 8000 grandchildren? Do you want to be on a sailboat sailing around the world? Do you want to be retired in Asia? Do you want to, I don't know, whatever. Like my parents' version of this would innocent me guessing. But my dad has always loved the ocean. And my mom loves it, too. And so they've always wanted to be at a house near the water. And they've been planning for it almost their whole life. Like literally, it took them like 20, almost almost 20 years to get a house near the water. They got a house 20 years ago, that was two miles from the water. And 15 years later, or 16 years later, they finally were like, this isn't close enough. And they were the whole time they were there. They are shopping for the right house. Right? So they were thinking about these things decades ago. Right? And so what do they need to do in order to retire near the ocean? They need, clearly a place to live. So they worked backwards from this ultimate dream that they have this vision that they had of themselves when they were retired. And like it continues, right? Like my mom got this. This, she had this idea where they got this house that about three or four years ago now. And it was not in great shape. But my parents love projects like this.  

Lesley Logan 38:58  

They do. And your sister picked up another project, she got, it's in the blood.

Brad Crowell 39:02  

Oh, geez. Yeah. Well, my mom's mom is now in her middle 80s. And, you know, there may come a point where she needs like in home care. And so my mom thought, well, what if we took this house that we want to retire in? And we created, like a first floor plan, where we could have like a guest house on the same level as the primary plan before so that, you know, if you're 89, you're not going up and downstairs basically. Right. And so they've been already thinking ahead, planning, maybe we could support you know, grandma, and then someday, that might support them in that same house, right? Yeah. So they're just you know, thinking ahead, working backwards from this ultimate vision that you have for yourself and this takes inflection, time to sit down and actually think through it. 

Lesley Logan 39:54  

Do you want us to go about this also bold advice? (Brad: Tell me.) The way fitness works is like, if you want to be able to pick up your grandkids at 80, you have to be training your body for that now.

Brad Crowell 40:07  

Yeah. Yeah, like the age of eight. So yeah, you might have already missed the boat. 

Lesley Logan 40:12  

You did. No, I'm kidding. But like, but like, seriously, because 

Brad Crowell 40:17  

I think I started around 32. 

Lesley Logan 40:18  

Yeah. So if you had, like, if you picture yourself in your old age, like, if you do want to go up the stairs, if you want to, like have your beautiful house, like beautiful master bedroom suite with a balcony, whatever, then you have to be able to go up the stairs at 40 without even thinking about it. Yeah, maybe 50 flights of stairs. So that like as we age, like things like decline. But it's really incredible. Because I have seen people in this, you know, age is really just a number because like, I've seen people at 80 who can do things that like, you're like, whoa, that's phenomenal. Like there's a 63 old woman who was like doing this like, crazy deadlift that like 

Brad Crowell 40:58  

200 pounds, 230 pounds? I saw it.

Lesley Logan 41:00  

There was another woman who was dead lifting as much as you and my dad was, and I was like, okay, I need to step it up if I want to be because I'm 40 she's 23. So like, 23 years older than me. I better get going if I wasn't able to do that at 63. Anyways, I love that advice. Okay, 

Brad Crowell 41:15  

Yeah, well, so if you're stuck and trying to figure out what life could look like for you at 80 Daniella's advice was, go through all your senses. Okay. Focus on your senses. What are you seeing? What are you hearing? What are you smelling? Tasting? Feeling? What is what is that? What is happening around you? And then how can you plan your life backwards from there? She said, that we only have one life to live. We all know this. But she asked, What do you want out of it? And, you know, I don't know. I think it's funny. Like, we have these ambitions and these goals and these things, but like, do we actually sit down and say what do I want out of life? You know, so do that. Do that. Okay. All right. What about you? 

Lesley Logan 42:08  

Well, after that, I don't know. I actually really loved this, she said, in relation to like bold advice or getting advice from others. She said, listen to all of it. And I was like, okay, like when she said that, I'm not gonna lie. Instead, I was like, should you go like, (Brad: Should you what?) listen to all the advice, listen to all the advice, getting advice, like, you know, getting advice from others, she said, listened to all of it. And I was like, Ooh, I disagree on this. But then she said, however, yeah, if it's negative advice, only listen to the people who've done what you're trying to do. 

Brad Crowell 42:46  

Which is like, drop that fucking microphone that is humongous. Like it's such a, that was such a lightbulb moment for me when she said that I was like, Oh, my God. How come? I've never thought about that before?

Lesley Logan 42:56  

Right? Like, you know, we, we talk like, we have people who want to do on demand memberships. And since we do them, yeah, I say hello. I think it's a great idea. I can absolutely reach those needs. Here are some things you need to keep in mind. And it's not to deter, but it's to actually like, if I could do it all over again, knowing those things, what would I have done differently? And because no one's gonna get it right the first time. You can learn from that. Yeah. And so anyways, I thought that was really, really, really great and 

Brad Crowell 43:27  

Well, I think so. So here's a good example.

Lesley Logan 43:30  

Well, she had a great example of her own life. (Brad: Oh, go ahead.) Is it okay if I share it? (Brad: Do it.) So she wanted to write a book. And she wanted to write it, like at the book Educated inspired her and she's like, oh, I want to write that. And there's all these naysayers (inaudible)

Brad Crowell 43:44  

It's an epic book about cults, PS. Educated.

Lesley Logan 43:47  

It's less about cults and more, it's, it's more about (inaudible)

Brad Crowell 43:51  

It's the story of a woman's experience where she grew up in what didn't know was a cult. 

Lesley Logan 43:58  

It's a cult of her family. Yeah. Was a family cult. So you know, but, and she is about like, people who are living in rural areas who are not educated. You know? So anyway, she wanted to write that book. And people were like, you can't do that. There's, that's not going to work.

Brad Crowell 44:15  

Well, no, they said that there's no way you can be Educated, Educated was such a box office hit as far as books go, you know, don't even bother trying.

Lesley Logan 44:26  

Yeah. And but four years later, she actually did it. And, and it was along the lines of Educated. Yeah, and The Glass Castle. And what's really funny is Roy Vaden, who was on a couple weeks ago, he actually has a really big thing that like you when you're pitching an idea, you actually should pitch it in the vein of comparing to something like say, it's the educated book, but for cults, or like, it's this for about like the American Idol version of this and it's because people can't envision something that's brand new if it's ever happened, they need to hear it how it's like something else. So but If she listened to the people who'd written books, who were like what their advice was so that she could still do what she wanted to do and not like the people around her went, oh my god, you'll never be the number one best selling book on this topic. Right? You know, which was like, Well, how do they know but like, especially when it's your idea and it's baby and this goes back to Nikole Mitchell's episode, like you have to like, be mindful of who you're telling information to, you know? 

Lesley Logan 45:44  

Daniella, you're phenomenal. Congratulations. You are just getting started really on this incredible journey and the impact you're going to make on this planet not as a cult leader, but as a guide on like, how to make sure that we show up as boldly as we can and have the effects we want to have on this planet but without getting involved with a cult. I'm Lesley Logan,

Brad Crowell 46:06  

I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 46:07  

Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you listen to our interview recaps our FYF's and how are you going to use this in your life? Who are you going to send it to? We want to know so tag Daniella, tag the Be It Pod and oh by the way if you don't watch the pod on YouTube, this one is got multiple things going on because shout out to Daniella who can knit without even looking down. (Brad: Oh yeah.) and talk the whole time. 

Brad Crowell 46:34  

Yeah. And look true supporters of the pod watch the YouTube channel. Okay? (Lesley: Just saying.) That is self-sacrifice. (Lesley: Brad!) Just watch the YouTube, though and if you don't watch the YouTube channel then you're out.

Lesley Logan 46:45  

There's a JK in all of that, you guys. Have a great day and Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 46:45  

Bye for now. 

Lesley Logan 46:45  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 46:45  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 46:45  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 46:45  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 46:45  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 46:45  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

A former cult member, Daniella delves deep into group dynamics, drawing from her past experiences. She highlights the red flags of cult behaviors and contrasts them with the hallmarks of genuine communities. Tune in for a compelling exploration of the fine line between coercion and authentic communities.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Daniella's personal transition from cult life to clarity.
• The characteristics that define high control groups.
• Techniques to identify underlying cult behaviors.
• When and why to question self-proclaimed gurus.

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Daniella Mestyanek Young on IG
• Daniella Mestyanek Young’s Unculture Yourself Website
• Daniella Mestyanek Young on Tiktok
• Daniella Mestyanek Young’s Book Uncultured: A Memoir
• Educated: A Memoir by Tara Westover
• Culting of America by Ron Rhodes
• Scarred by Sarah Edmondson

Guest Bio:

Daniella Mestyanek Young is the author of UNCULTURED and a scholar of cults and extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership. Daniella was raised in the religious sex cult, The Children of God. She later served as an intelligence officer for the US Army, making the rank of Captain, and became one of the first women in US Army history to conduct deliberate ground combat operations when she volunteered to serve on a Female Engagement Team, and received the Presidential Volunteer Service Award. Daniella lives with her husband and daughter in Maryland, and holds a master’s degree in industrial and organizational psychology from the Harvard Extension School. Daniella is an organizational development speaker with the Macmillan Speaker’s Bureau, and you can see her TEDx talk here. In the vein of Educated and The Glass Castle, Daniella Mestyanek Young's Uncultured is more than a memoir about an exceptional upbringing, but about a woman who, no matter the lack of tools given to her, is determined to overcome. Uncultured is "a propulsive memoir delivered in the honest tones of a woman who didn't always think she'd live to tell her story,” (NYT) it’s a book which explores the dangers unleashed when harmful group mentality goes unrecognized, demonstrates the “dangers of blindly following leaders of any stripe” (Kirkus Review) and is emblematic of the many ways women have to contort themselves to survive.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Episode Transcript:

Daniella Mestyanek Young 0:00  

Because, you know, I was sort of in your world of, you know, entrepreneurship, and how am I going to do this? And what am I going to do? Am I a speaker on my own author? Am I a teacher, and somebody told me, you know, I don't know if there's a market for your stories, because I don't know if nice girls from Milwaukee who've never had anything bad happened to them can relate. And I just immediately went to I was like, first of all, I don't think there is such a thing. As a girl who's never had anything bad happened to her. I think all women can think back to being six years old and being afraid and wishing they had a fairy godmother to give them a different life.

Lesley Logan 3:25  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 5:08  

Hi, Be It babes. Okay, so I'm super excited because I heard today's guest on a podcast a little bit culty. I'm constantly intrigued, and always making sure that I'm not in a cult or creating one. And when I heard this amazing woman you're about to meet today, and her journey and her story. I was like, oh my god, like, what a Be It person like, be it till you see it all the way through? I can't imagine going through any one of the things that she went through, let alone what all of that and then what she's doing today. So today's guest is Daniella Mestyanek Young. Thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're up to these days? 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 7:28  

Absolutely. So I'm Daniella I call myself a scholar of cults, extreme groups and extremely bad leadership. And I wrote a book called Uncultured, which is my memoir. So it's a story of my life. Being born and raised two generations into the Children of God religious cults, I was my mom was born and raised in, and then what it took to leave that kind of put my life together in America outside the cults. And then, because I'm such a high demand, high control person, I end up in the US Army, and kind of breaking barriers, making a lot of history for women, but also realizing a lot of the parallels between the world I'm in and my womanhood and the sex cult that I grew up in, in my childhood. So it is a book ultimately about group behavior that is telling the reader you know what, the New York Times called a propulsive story, but it's also kind of begging you to look at the parallels in your own lives. I say like all my readers to ask themselves the question what cults am I in?

Lesley Logan 8:34  

Yeah, I think that the listener right now probably has a lot of questions. So first of all, you have to read her book, you can listen to her say on on Audible. It's, it's just phenomenally written. I heard when you were on a little bit culter. You mentioned the book Educated. And that is a book my husband and I loved, the way that she tells her story. And so I have to say like, you're you tell a story in a way that you do take us along for the ride and it is interesting how you can find out first of all, I found myself seeing the repetitiveness from what the cult you grew up in to the military, but then also, when you can do that, then you can also see it in your own life, which is your goal and that's I think the more we can do it, the easier it is for us to understand like how do we get ourselves here like you You were born into the cult that your family is but like, what were the steps that got me here? This cult that I may be in.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 9:31  

Can I tell you first just like quick story about Educated from the perspective of Be It Till You See It? I you know, listen to Educated in 2018 and my first thought was literally, why didn't I write that book first. And then I was like, No, that's the model right? Like that's the like she did a book and I can go write my book in the tradition of Educated and because Educated with such a massive book, pretty much everyone in the industry was like, You cannot compare your book to Educated. And I was like, I'm sorry. I know you mostly say that. But this is a true comparison. And now I have, you know, four years later, I published a book called Uncultured that on the cover says, in the vein of Educated and Glass Castle. Yeah, which were the two Jacks in the field, right. So I like this story just to tell people like, don't let people tell you, you can't also be something big, just like, go ahead and be it. 

Lesley Logan 10:34  

Ah, oh, my God. And we can just drop the mic there. I mean, I, first of all, I'd love you to share that, because one of my coaches that I've worked with, he is very much like, you should absolutely compare your thing to something that's big, because people need to know what camp you go in. So like, this is like the American Idol for I'm gonna say knitting because Daniel is knitting. If you're watching us on YouTube, I'm so impressed right now. So like, if people know if they can take your unique idea, because it's your unique story, and you can put it in the camp of something that they know is successful, then his theory it actually works really well. So I think it's so funny that people you can't do it. It's like, actually, you just fucking did it.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 11:16  

Oh, and I, you know, I want to tell you another story here. Because, you know, I was sort of in your world of, you know, entrepreneurship, and how am I going to do this? And what am I going to do? Am I a speaker or my own author? Am I a teacher, and somebody told me, you know, I don't know if there's a market for your stories, because I don't know if nice girls from Milwaukee who've never had anything bad happened to them can relate. And I just immediately went to I was like, first of all, I don't think there is such a thing. As a girl who's never had anything bad happened to her. I think all women can think back to being six years old and being afraid and wishing they had a fairy godmother to give them a different life. And that's why Disney is a billion-dollar industry. And I use that a bit in my sales pitch, right? Which was like, Yes, I'm telling you this, like far out fantastic story. But I'm also telling you in a way, that's like every woman's story, because you're seeing it through the eyes of this, this girl experiencing the extremes, you're going to be seeing probably less extreme, but also toxic versions of that in your own life. Wow. Like, I really hope for. 

Lesley Logan 12:33  

I agree. And I think like also, yes, every woman everywhere, does need to maybe yours is the extreme. Maybe there's other extreme, more extreme ones out there. I just gotta hope not. But like, the reality is, is that like, we can't pretend that somewhere some girls are very safe. And they're very fine, because they are eventually going to be out on a trip, they're going to be somewhere. And also, I agree, I don't know that there's that there's any person who hasn't experienced something where they didn't actually have the words for it. Like, even when you were a child, you didn't have the words for what's going on with you, you just had this inherent knowledge, like, this is probably not a good thing. And I don't actually want to live this life. 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 13:12  

So, and that's a big thing I've learned through writing my story. And I feel like with the proliferation of, you know, shiny, happy people being Amazon's largest number one original right now, people look at my story as extreme. But the cult I was born and raised in was just kind of the ultimate conclusion of the Duggars, right, of so many of these families and groups in America. And this is why the next project I'm working on is a book called the Culting of America. But one of the things that I've learned from my readers, and my discussions with them is that, you know, for example, I have so much in common with some of woman who grew up Mormon, you know, or like that it doesn't have to be a cult to have been a high control, high demand group environment that you were born and raised in that then influence your personality in all of these ways. You know, and going back to what you were saying earlier of like, when you're born into it, but you still have to kind of go back through and be like, why was I in this room? This is the thing I found is that after our culture or high-demand religions, or groups, we have to ask ourselves, you know, why was I in that group? And then what impacts did it have on me? And so for me, asking, you know, on the one hand asking why I was in the military, that tells me a lot about where I was personally at the time, but why I was in a cult is because my grandfather joined a cult. So for me, understanding why I grew up in a cult was kind of like going back and understanding systems and understanding group behavior. It's what led me to graduate school and setting Organizational Psychology around the same time I was writing Uncultured because really that's because I was trying to

Lesley Logan 15:14  

Thanks for the timeline of like, when did you? So? When did so actually I would have I want to just get the listener up to date because they haven't read your book. You. You left the military when and then you started writing your book and going to college like, what what timeframe are we in because I'm looking at you and I'm like, I think I'm older than you. I don't know how you live five lifetimes before in these many years, times I am still a Daniella. 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 15:40  

That's funny. I put together a PowerPoint of photos for the book team helping me publish the book. And that's exactly what they said, there are so many lives. I just turned 36 last month. So the timeline went, I got out of the army when I was 25. Sorry, not 25, 28. I got out of the Army in 2015. And I was pregnant with my daughter and I went to work for corporate America for a few years. And then was like, this is not for me, number of reasons. Got myself at first, just into entrepreneurship. I was like, I'm gonna start a team building company. And then I was like, oh, the problem with team building is people just think it's take a fun activity for add alcohol, and call it a team. And so I really started right around the same time, I was deciding, I was not going to go back to a nine to five job, I started kind of self-study, I was like, I'm gonna make myself an expert in leadership and culture. And I started with this idea of like, you can't spell culture without cult to you know, this comes from the same place, there are so many parallels in my life, you know, and, and all of these things are, are worked into the book. And then I was actually eyeing this program, this Harvard program for a master's in Organizational Psychology, but I couldn't make it across the country to Harvard. And then because of COVID, everything got turned virtual. So I jumped on that opportunity in mid-COVID. To go get a, an online degree at the same time everybody else was. So, use my veteran money to go back and do that. And here's what worked out so cool with the timeline. So, you know, the book came out in September, I graduated. So in March, 20 years to the day of when I walked away from the cult with zero education, right, zero days in school, 20 years to the month, I was conferred the master's degree from Harvard, and then graduation was on my birthday, 20 years later, Tom Hanks was the speaker. It was just, I got to like to dress up in all my Harvard Crimson. You know, Harvard's my favorite cult, and then go to Harvard bookstore, and autograph my book they're like, on my birthday in my regalia. So it's actually kind of cool talking about this on this podcast, right? Because it really was this five-year journey for me of seven-year really, after the army, I don't know what I'm going to be. And then I think I know what I'm going to be, but I don't really know. But just still like following a path. And all of a sudden, everything just came together five years later. And now when I dropped my credentials, people are like, oh, wow. Like, yeah.

Lesley Logan 18:42  

I'm sure that's part of the cult of America that our credentials are what gets us into places and not like experience. But so, okay. (Daniella: Agree. Agree.)

Lesley Logan 18:54  

Great. Thank you for that timeline. Because I just think that is really cool. So because we're like, it's so easy to like, read a book or read someone's bio, and go, okay, she left the cult, got in the army, now she's a Harvard grad. She wrote, it's like, she wrote a book. It's like, it's actually for you as a 20-year journey from almost like book in, to book in and we're like on a new series of books in your life, I feel like. So, I do want to like get a little definition for those people listening who may not be aware may not be like, like me watching anything that has to do with a cult to just make sure that I don't when I'm like, shiny happy people watch that. The bow all the things, high controlled groups. Can you like give us a definition of like, what those things are? You said high controll and high. what was that?

Daniella Mestyanek Young 19:42  

Yeah, high control, high demand group. (Lesley: Yes.) Um, so I have a, okay, I have a very specific definition of a cult. It's maybe a little bit hard to follow because it's 10 parts, which is why like, I like to have it in writing. If any of you have scenarios like TikTok, you can always find this 10-part list above my head and my videos. But I say our cult is a group that has, you know, a defined charismatic leader, although that might be changing because of (inaudible) whose members all believe in this single sacred assumption. So I say, you know, for the Children of God, the sacred assumption was that David Berg was a prophet of God or for NXIVM that Keith Raniere was the world's smartest man. And as long as you're under that sacred assumption, you can justify anything, but the sacred assumption fuels this transcendent mission, right, you have this huge mission that is so big, and so right, you're going to go save the world in some way. And it's going to require the self-sacrifice of the individual that's a really important part of cults and high-demand groups are constantly asking the individual to sacrifice for the good of the group. This is why nonprofits can become cold, like very quickly. And then this group now at this stage of the journey, right, it starts to limit its members' access to the outside world, it starts to have a distinguishable vernacular language that only holds meanings. And there's quite a few ways cults weaponized language as well. And then it programs its members to hold an "us versus them" mentality. Now you're at this pretty serious stage where it starts to exploit its members labor, have very high exit cost, and bring you into an ends justifies the means mentality. And with all of those things, I say like, congratulations, if you've hit 10 out of 10, Euro calls, even if nobody has diagnosed you as one. However, we can all probably look through that list, right and see that our groups are hitting a few, a few of these. And, you know, one of my arguments is that in a military unit, when you're back home, you're fine, you're only five out of 10, or six out of 10. But as soon as you deploy or go away to training together, and you add this isolation, this us versus them mentality, these different things, you are going to have a cultic experience. And we can't always just be like, Ah, it's a call and leave the group. So I like this sort of formula here, because it tells us where to look for the toxic behavior. Yeah. For me, this is very similar to my job in the military in the army, which was I was an intelligence officer. So I was the expert on the bad guy, I was the expert on how every plan was going to go wrong. And but when I was in school, setting group behavior, people only wanted to talk about happy positive stuff and good groups and good leaders and values. And I'm like, but but here's all the dangers, you know, and we're seeing these companies like we were or LulaRoe, you know, just turned completely into cults. And nobody's really seeing what's going on. So I like to use that framework. And I tell people, you know, if it quacks like a cult, you know, where to start looking for the the harmful stuff.

Lesley Logan 23:17  

I do, I appreciate you going into that framework and talking about that, because I do analysis that you brought up like we work and LuLaRoe those are like jobs that people bought into, like LuLaRoe, you paid into you really paid into joining that cult. But the women who started that that's what they that's what they thought they were joining to, they thought they were joining into creating a business for themselves that could make money and we work they thought they were like redesigning the way the workforce was and so it doesn't have to be religious.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 23:47  

And you know, there's two things here like nobody ever joins a cult, right they join a group that is doing something that is like feeding their soul. But also you know, the listeners of Be It Till You See It are all going to be very susceptible to join in cults because that is what cults do is they give you these big missions. Remember we talked about. So any person who is seeking to like change their life or do things differently or has recognized that the systems and the way that the world is they don't like it. Those are the people that are susceptible to join cults. And then we also don't usually talk about when we do talk about Carlson society, we talk about why and how people join them and don't see all of the red flags we don't talk about is how much effort goes into recruiting people into disguising the red flags into walking you slowly into the cults until that coercive control is complete. And then you really are under you know, what's what scholars like to call bounded choice, where you think you have free choice, you think you're free to leave anytime But you actually are under the coercive control of a group. 

Lesley Logan 25:03  

Yeah, I so I love that you brought that up because I I do agree like I think anybody who's like seeking information to change their life and has this like, and I actually don't think it's a bad thing to want something more in your life, I don't think that's what you're saying either. But to be aware that like, because you are in such search of something bigger or something more than what you're doing, you are susceptible. So can we talk a little bit about like, what the disguise can look like. So that if the if something quacks a little bit like that, that's a cult.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 25:40  

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'll start with one that that I heard you throw out earlier, which was, well, we can't be a cult because people are free to leave anytime, right? This is the number one thing that you've got from any group. And I've even people will literally say this to me with a straight face about the military. And I'm like, you think you're free to leave the military? Anytime? Please explain that to me. 

Lesley Logan 26:05  

I don't think so. I've not been in it but my family (inaudible). 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 26:08  

Right. So, I think there's some, there's a really important thing about that phrase, they're free to leave any time, which is under coercive control. Not only is that phrase not true, that phrase is actually there to reinforce the dichotomy of there are two ways, my way or you're gone. Right? So there's no room for you to criticize anything here. And I, you know, of course, we saw this in the cults, but I saw this in the army all the time. And they say, you know, you signed up to be here, it's a volunteer army. And I'm going, I'm just saying I don't think all the soldiers need to be here at 3am for a movement that doesn't start until noon. I'm not saying I don't like my job, right, but they give you this all or nothing dichotomy, um, and then but in cults, when I say, you know, they say you're free to leave anytime and saying that is actually part of disguising the fact that you aren't free to leave because cults and coercive groups they know, they need to keep you you know, for isolated, busy, skinny, pregnant and tired. And if they do all of those things, you actually will not be free to leave, right? And you will have so many things keeping you in place. And so that, for example, is one of the ways of disguising, right? Like yeah, constantly reminding you, you're free to leave constantly talking about how we're not a cult and what the answer that we give to people is. Cults use these things called thought-stopping cliches, which is you know, it's the first day of the rest of your life comes from a cult leader named sin Anon, you know, they'll say trust the Prophet, they'll say, keep sweet. Boy, boys will be boys is a good one, you know, or you knew what you signed up for and it's intended to just shut down political complaints. And there's a book that shows very well the way that the cults disguise all the red flags. It's called Scarred by Sarah Edmondson who was from NXIVM, I'm actually reading it out loud on Tiktok while I'm knitting, so people can come there for snippet. But what she shows really well is that she's not blindly joining a cult, she is having questions all along the way. But every time you have a question, there's an answer. You know, and they have like, preempted this. And one of the ways I think we can see this with cult leaders is, you know, big, complicated societal questions have big complicated answers or don't have answers. So anyone promising to solve a big complicated problem for you with a very simple solution? Is a comment, right? Like, is someone who is trying to coerce you?

Lesley Logan 29:06  

Oh, I love this. So many tools for us all to use. And I remember, I was in college, I think I was just finishing college. I was prime for this to happen. Somebody invited me to a landmark meeting. And I went, I didn't know what it was. And I like went. And of course, like they do a really good job, like, asking these great questions to get you to give information. And of course, like, I was having problems with a family member at the time. They're like, Well, how long have you kept this problem around? It's obviously serving you something good to keep this problem around. And I remember thinking, like, I can't get rid of this family member. I'm a 19-year-old person who's trying to pay college loans. What are you talking about? So I left and I never like I didn't sign up. Also, it was too expensive. And I was like, You kid. Are you kidding? You missed my student loans or that I'm paying myself. Thank you. So I, but I remember this moment because I remember like, how close had I had the money, would I have joined it, maybe because they seem to have the answers. They seem to what they're doing so fast when I'm teaching Pilates class and one of my clients is like, I'm gonna miss class this weekend, I'm going to this thing and I said, Okay, great. Have fun, you know. So she shows up for class on one of the days I said, and I said, Oh, I thought you're gonna be here. She was like, I think it's a really weird place. And so I'm just gonna be here. You guys, her phone did not stop ringing. They kept calling her to get her to come back. Because it was the last day all these things and I said, I'm just like, I'm just going to be honest. I think it's really weird. I've never called the client multiple

Daniella Mestyanek Young 30:38  

screen. Why haven't you come back to class?

Lesley Logan 30:41  

Like, that's weird?

Daniella Mestyanek Young 30:49  

Yeah, and Citrix our channel is is me just like helping people, like pull out and understand these little things, right? So even for example, you know, when we first started talking, and you said, you're a Pilates instructor, and I said, Oh, is it a cult? And you laughed, right? That's a very healthy response. Because I say like, if you wanted to fight me all of a sudden, or if you had all these justifications about why you weren't a cult, that's when I get very suspicious. The moment in my book, after I've left the cult word, I realized it was a cult, right, we spent hours drilling responses to why we aren't a cult, right? Like, who does that? And so I even think it's one of those things, you know, it's one of my 10 commandments for good groups that aren't cults is like, can you can you joke about your organization, which is also to say, can you critically look at your organization, right? Because your response was, you laughed, then you said, well, it can be a cult, and then you immediately started critically looking. Right. So that is, I would say, a healthy response to for a leader of an organization in an organization that might have some things that are culty. And some areas, you know, I'm sure he could come into your Pilates studio, and point out some things about group behavior that you may be unaware of that could turn toxic. But that doesn't mean like you're a cult. But real cults, of course, do not want to fix themselves, they do not want to, you know, dig into areas of behavior that could turn toxic. And so if you ask someone a question, like, Oh, could it be a cult, and their reaction is really negative, even though cult's a negative word? Like, I usually see that as one of those interesting signs.

Lesley Logan 32:43  

That's so interesting. That's so funny. One of the things that I did last year, I started a mentorship and I had, there's like, 15 girls, and I had said, I don't know if I'm gonna do it again, probably do it one time, let's just see how it goes and see if I like the how much time it takes and the and the journey of it all. And at the end, I said, Yeah, ladies, you guys were so much fun. I'm gonna do it again. And they're like, can we all apply again? Because then it's just us? And I said, No, we're actually you're gonna get lots of people in. And we're not going to isolate ourselves. In fact, all this has to get out there because I would love to change industry, but I can't change it myself. I want, I want you all to be the people who change it. So we're gonna write they're not become a weird group who isolates themselves. 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 33:26  

And this is I think, this is so important in the kind of life coach industry, you know, and one of the reasons I went more traditional book route instead of and more degrees instead of life coach route was, I personally was like, this feels a little culty. Like, we're trying to become gurus and just, you know, which is actually what charisma is, is you have authority based on your own qualities that are somehow above other people's, you know, and so I I think that's one of another one of the signs though, right? It's like, I wrote a whole memoir, I we came on here to talk about my book, how little have we talked about me, and how much have we talked about the ideas right? With you with that group, right? They were trying to almost make you this guru. And you're like, No, let's not do that. Like let me just be help her along the way. And I think that's an interesting, important distinction. And one of my favorite cult scholars, Dr. Janya Lalich, she just says point blank, she's like, there are no gurus. Like do what you need to do for your religion for your spirituality. But just like there are no gurus, it's always a danger sign. And you should always be questioning. And this was, you know, something that was said about Keith Raniere of NXIVM, which was very, very extreme. And it was all based on his claim, completely unsubstantiated that he was the smartest man alive and the thing that was said that was so insightful was any time a leader asks for your extra confidence in them, or promises you extra results, you should actually be asking extra questions or looking for extraordinary proof. Right? Because this is the thing that happens again and again, as people get lost in the charisma lost in the thought leadership lost in the guru-ness, and then they don't question. And it doesn't always mean it's gonna turn toxic, but it often does.

Lesley Logan 35:34  

Yeah, yeah, I thank you for saying that. I want to say to my ladies in that group, I don't think you are trying to make us a cult. But I think you really enjoy the time. But I just wanted to use it as an example. Because I do think a lot of people listening create groups, and how easy we like, well, actually, yeah, let's just make this the group that always goes and does this together. And then what you're saying it doesn't, it can't, it's just it can lead that way. So you know, and I think that's important because especially people listening who do want to, to have a community of some kind, you know, knowing that you're creating a community that it's like, are you putting yourself at the top or like, is the community a whole that like, there's the community of the whole, that's the top and everyone's kind of part of it, you know. So that's why I really loved what you how you bring things up. Because it can be easy for the person's like, well, I created this group, so I have to lead this group, and I have to do these things. And then all of a sudden, you put this pressure on yourself to be somebody, that that's not why you might have created the group in the first place, or the community because everybody does want to belong to a group. And I think that that's also the hard part of and I'm sure you're talking about that in your next book. It's like, people want to belong, people want to feel seen. So how do we create places? Where can people belong and feel seen without creating a toxic environment?

Daniella Mestyanek Young 36:47  

Yeah, I mean, the drive for community is huge, you know, and when you were talking about with your group, how, like not doing repetitive things can be helpful. You know, I never thought about it this way. But I was like, but that's a huge thing in military intelligence is you don't set patterns because patterns are dangerous. Right? And so I think just that right, there is an interesting thing to look at. But how do we, how do we create positive groups? Right, and this is one of everyone's big questions. Um, I'm actually ending my next book with a chapter it was going to be called good cults or groups, everyone asked about, but now we're calling it Just Groups, though just groups, but also just groups, which is kind of, if you understand this idea of, it's not a binary it's a spectrum, right? So I like to say like, a group is not a cult, or not a cult, or toxic or not toxic, right? It's not that simple, complicated issues have complicated answers. And so I, you know, want people to look at the spectrum of there's 10 parts of a cult, you can have any or none or all of them. And then how do those influence you, but part of starting to look at groups as neither good nor bad, but a spectrum that I think really changes the answer of how we look at good groups, which is something I kind of say that in the end of Uncultured, which is the need to understand that our groups are just groups. And, you know, there's this phrase out of individual psychology, which says, human beings are 99%, the same, but it's that 1% of difference that causes all the world's problems. And I feel like the DNA of groups very similar, right, like groups are 99% similar, and I've been in and studied a lot of them. But no matter. You know, the flip side of that is no matter how amazing you think your group is, and how hard you're trying to build a good group, you're also kind of only 1% away from the being the sex cult that traffics children. Right. And I think this is the most important thing we can do to build good groups is be on guard is talk about the negatives is never assume that our group is good. You know, one of my 10 commandments for good groups that are not called is thou shalt never champion last name. And it's just this like us versus them mentality. But as humans, we have this propensity to believe that our group is the best because it is ours. Our family is the best because it is ours our way of life is the best our religion and on and on. And so anytime you are 100% sure of your position, you have blind spots, and then these coercive groups again that are out there that are recruiting that have agendas that are Trying to build these armies to create power, you know, they have much more of a chance of getting you than if you're really much better at kind of living in the gray. And being like, you know, I have a great group I try really hard. But I want to look out for these things, you know, like, like, in your example, right? Another leader might be like this, these are really good girls, no women, nobody's trying to turn this into a cult, like, we're fine. I can be the leader. Whereas you are like, No, I'm always worried about whether I'm joining a cult or building a cult. So I'm going to be careful here, right? (Lesley: Yeah.) And this is something we see out of military intelligence as well that you almost don't have to prepare for the exact scenario that you're going to encounter. Because you almost never know what that is. But any level of preparation for like, a bad guy attack right for toxins coming in from the outside is going to make you more prepared for when it does go wrong. You know, and I think one of the biggest ways that people fall for these toxic groups or toxic gurus is just getting so isolated or so into it or so inundated with it, you know, you go to CrossFit every day, if your CrossFit box starts going wrong, how are you going to be able to tell? Right, if you don't have enough exposure to enough other groups? Right, be able to see when they're going wrong. See when the logic is going off?

Lesley Logan 41:36  

Yeah, yeah, I thank you for sharing that. Because I think it is. It allows everybody to go okay, if I'm, like, if I'm stayin on guard, I'm asking questions, and I can consciously go into a group. And, and many groups can be just a group. And if I ever feel like I'm at a point where I cannot ask those questions, I cannot be critical. There's my red flags to go. Okay. Then I like I've, I've leaned into the spectrum too far with this place, you know, so

Daniella Mestyanek Young 42:07  

that's 100% 100%. Correct. 

Lesley Logan 42:10  

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I feel like sometimes I get really on guard because I was raised. I was not raised in a, like a shiny happy people type cult. But my parents, my parents were very much in organized religions. However, they changed pretty much every year for a good several years. So I'm like, I'm like, did we stop going? Because like it was, my mom. The big joke was that we stopped going, we switched church just because of football. Because we'd stopped going every football season. I think my mom was too embarrassed to go back to that cult. We had a start a new one. That's like

Daniella Mestyanek Young 42:50  

It's funny, though. But this is actually some of the advice that I give to people. Like if you're trying to understand cults and coercive control, like read five different memoirs, right? Because once you read enough, where the details are completely different, you'll start to realize that it's a pattern. Yeah. Right. And it seems like that's accidentally what your mom was doing. Because you had so many, whether, whether she realized it or whether you realize that right, you started to see these patterns and be like, oh, I get like what this is, you know, because you're seeing so many different ways. And for me, I was reading about all of these different Christian cults. And so in my head, you know, 22 years old, the problem is Christianity. And then I read a memoir by a girl who grew up in Scientology, and it was exactly like, sounded exactly like my childhood and a bunch of similar themes. And that's when I was like, oh, it's that the essence of mind control and controlling other humans is, it's like, it's not only the same, it's programmatic, so we can spot these markers as it's happening, right? 

Lesley Logan 44:02  

Yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up. I love that you said five different ones because then you're not able to go well, because I'm not in a Christian group that I'm not a cult. It's like actually what you're saying this programming can happen in any type of group. So And as we're all trying to follow that journey like you followed your journey to become an author, whatever that is, if you're listening wherever you're going, all this is is to help you what I hope you're getting out of this is I help you understand like science where maybe your your goal your ultimate idea of what you wanted has led you down to a path of like being part of some group that is not healthy for you and it's actually not going to help you get to that next level.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 44:43  

So the number one you know, the number one personality type that they say that is amongst people that join cults is being a seeker, you know, which I say if you're if you like to read books, or you're listening to this podcast, right, you're probably a seeker, and something that cults and coercive groups and coercive leaders will do is weaponize your passions and weaponize your discontents. Right. So if you're this person who's doing exactly what I did, I'm dropping out of the business world, I'm gonna go seek for my own thing, I'm gonna be super passionate, I want to change the world, I have joined 1000 culty groups, you know, like, those things are the things that are qualities that make you this amazing human that makes you the person that can probably go achieve anything you want. But it also can be weaponized against you, you know, and General Stanley McChrystal, he has this really great concept of like, when we are looking at threats to our leadership or our groups, we don't usually look at ourselves as one of the threats, right. So that I think is just one of those things, you know, that's really important to kind of focus on and I always like to stay away from the words of good or bad, and none of this stuff is to scare anyone, it's just literally to see, by looking at these extreme examples, we can find those parallels when they start, right. Yeah, when our group is on the international news with really bad bad stuff.

Lesley Logan 46:21  

Yeah, yeah, it can happen in, in your, in your local gym, you know, Daniella, I feel like I could talk to you forever. I've also, because I've just been listening to your book, like, crazy to, to get to know you more, and what you're up to, I'm excited to see where you go with all of this. Because the good part about being a seeker is that I do think that deal with all of your tools, you know, will probably educate all of us in bigger ways than we can ever be. And then those of us who are in leadership who are who want to lead the seekers in a safe, and just a group environment can learn so much more about how we can do that. So thank you. We're gonna take a quick break.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 47:01  

And thank you so much for listening to the audio. Because doing that was one of the hardest things ever.

Lesley Logan 47:08  

I can't even imagine because, like, I just how much stuff that I have to do. And my husband's like, well, when you read it, it sounds like you're reading and I'm like, Uh huh. I'm, well you want me to read this. So I'm reading. So, I can't even imagine. 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 47:25  

Here's the thing that I think your leaders will get a kick out of right? It was like doing that I had to record it straight through in five days, it felt like it was going to kill me it was so so so so hard. But I was a trained exploited actor from the age of birth by this cult, and I got to go use my own voice and my own voice acting abilities, which got me recommended in the New York Times to read this book about them for global distribution. So that was like, those moments of like, even though this is so hard, right, like I'm doing this to own my story to get it back into like, this is how I win, you know? So anyways, (inaudible)

Lesley Logan 48:06  

So powerful like oh my God. Okay, where can people find you follow you work with you get your books get get notifications of your next book.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 48:16  

So my website is www.uncultureyourself.com you can find out all kinds of things about me there including sassy T-shirts, um, best bet is going to be follow me on TikTok at Daniella Mestyanek Young and we're there all day all the time talking about cults and extreme groups and extremely bad leadership and ways it might show up in your life. And of course knitting. And, you know, the book is available anywhere you can buy books, and I hope that you all will both read the book and then come join one of our online conversations about it because we are all learning from each other.

Lesley Logan 48:54  

Yeah, I agree. You've given us a lot. You got us tips and all these things, but I would love we like to end with like bold, executed intrinsic targeted steps because it's one thing to be inspired. It's another thing to like, have an action step you can take on what do you have for our listeners today? 

Daniella Mestyanek Young 49:13  

Okay, so everyone does vision exercises, but as an organizational psychologist, I feel like this is where I must go and I have a good one. Which is just because it's for bold it's for backwards planning, right? It's just you imagine yourself when you're 80 and then you go through all of your senses, right? So dream life, what are you seeing around you? What are you hearing? What are you smelling? What are you tasting? What are you feeling? And then how do you start to backwards plan your life so that you can get there? So that's one that I really like cray because it really gets to the like we have one life to live it. What do we want out of it right? And how can we create those things? And then the other, I think, executable advice is like, when you figure out what you want to be, even if you don't know what that is, yeah, you just know it's something more or it's in this direction. Like, everyone is going to give you advice. Listen to all of it. But if it's negative advice, only listen to people who've done what you're trying to do.

Lesley Logan 50:35  

That's so helpful.

Daniella Mestyanek Young 50:36  

Yeah, like I had so many people tell me that what I was going for was impossible. And like, yeah, because nobody's done what I've done before. So they couldn't see it. But I could, but I had specific things like, oh, self-publish a book because nobody can reverse engineer a bestselling memoir. And I said to myself, well, has this person written the bestselling memoir? No. Okay. I'm gonna go find someone who has, you know, so I think we encounter this a lot in the world of seekers and what we're trying to be and sharing our passions. And it is, it is so up and down, right? You're gonna have moments that you think you screwed everything up, and then you're gonna have moments that it's all coming together. But if you just like, talk to everyone, keep your mind open. Listen to everyone, but only pay attention to the naysayers who have done what you're trying to do. Yeah, yeah, who are not the naysayers were like, that's the legitimate negative advice is learning from them. But so many other people are just saying telling you not to because they can't see it.

Lesley Logan 51:46  

Yeah, I agree with that. Like, I think, you know, when I started work for myself, everyone in my family who was giving me negative advice, oh, you're not gonna move how you pay your bills, all this negative stuff. It's like, Well, none of you have worked for yourself. So appreciate it. But like, that's an easy filter versus like my my great uncle who has worked for himself. He's like, that's amazing. Do this one thing. It's gonna be hard, but it's like okay, it's gonna be hard. He knows. And here's something advice I can take him. I think that's it, Daniella. Thank you so much. I also I love I love the vision of day but I also love that you put it through the filters of the senses that's really uniquely different. So thank you for for that. Oh my god, this puppy is so cute. If you're watching on YouTube, she's been doing this entire time. I'm so impressed. I've knitted nothing in my life and her dog looks like a stuffed animal. So Daniella, thank you so much. Y'all. How are you going to use these tips in your life? What are you going to do with them next make sure you let Daniella know how this podcast made you feel tag her tag the Be It pod and share this with a friend who might needs to hear it that they're the 10 signs in a cult and they don't want to listen to you. So give them this podcast and until next time. Be it till you see it. 

Lesley Logan 51:47  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 52:21  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 52:26  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 52:28  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 52:32  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 52:39  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Want a transformative approach to social media engagement? In today's FYF, Lesley shares a surprising revelation about her relationship with social media. Discover how, against the backdrop of a busy tour, she shifted her perspective to find genuine joy and purpose in online interactions. Plus, celebrate imperfect progress and embrace change as Lesley recounts two extraordinary wins of her listeners: Heather and Claire.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

In this episode you will learn about:

• Celebrating Agency Mini Number Nine
• Heather Ingram's breakthrough in overcoming physical obstacles to embrace imperfection.
• Claire Sparrow's manifestation journey from vision to reality with her Scottish cottage.
• Lesley’s newfound joy in utilizing social media.
• The transformative impact of positive affirmations.

Episode References/Links:

• Mentioned, Heather Ingram
• Mentioned, Claire Sparrow
• Claire Sparrow’s Book Waitlist

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

It's Fuck Yeah Friday.

Brad Crowell 0:02  

Fuck yeah.

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Get ready for some wins.

Lesley Logan 0:02  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:14  

Hey, Be It babes. Welcome to Fuck Yeah Friday. Oh my gosh, we're here with another Friday. How is that happening because time continues to bet we continue to rotate around the sun. Anyways, today is a Sunday, in real time, we are in the midst of the end of Agency Mini Number Nine, which is a win in itself. And so as you know, if you've been if you've been part of this podcast for a while this is when we celebrate your wins we celebrate one of mine and hopefully inspires you to recognize the wins that you have in your life. Because even when there's shit going on, even if it's stressful, even it feels like everything is falling apart.

Lesley Logan 0:50  

There's still something cool to celebrate. And it's important so we can get ourselves out of a funk, sometimes get in the present, and take that next step in our lives to being until we see it. So, so yeah, Agency Mini Number Nine, it's the last couple of days. And it's it's a whirlwind for us. And we're just so excited. So thank you to those of you who are part of Agency Mini Number Nine, whether you're an agency member as an ambassador, or you're someone participating in it, or you're someone on our team, phenomenal couldn't do it without you. Now let's get to your wins. And then I've got something I'm adding to this week to FYF and you'll have to stay till the end to hear about it. But these are short so you'll you know, you're not gonna stay too long. So Heather Ingram, she is in eLevate round two. And she said, "I did my arm series and leg series on the spine corrector belly searches, side searches and backbend searches on the ladder barrel. I did my first ever back bend stretch and grab the top rung. Was ugly, but I effing did it. I've never been able to backbend like that before. I didn't even try over the weekend as my body was working hard to acclimate to all this bind character extension, which was new to me, I'm taller today." So a couple things. Heather came out to Vegas for eLevate round two's last week in training barrels. And she has been working on her extension she's had struggles for many years. She is a survivor of breast cancer. And so it has not been an easy road to getting these extensions. And so she didn't actually get to try this exercise on my house. But when she got back and she kept doing her practices and she kept looking at it she let herself do an ugly version of it. And I don't say ugly lightly I say I said intentionally because we have to stop searching for perfection in our bodies. We really have to stop doing that. And it has to be about the process and fucking celebrating what you did do. You know like my goodness, we don't like criticize babies' gates. So why the hell are we criticizing our own process? Anyways, Heather, thank you for sharing this amazing wins that we could share to others and hopefully inspire some of you who are like, I'm not good at you know, lifting weights or I've got the shoulder thing, I've got this thing there is movement out there that it's for you. And you will be on a journey and some things that aren't accessible to you today we'll be accessible another day because you tried and you did some work that builds you up. So Heather, awesome win. Now, Claire Sparrow we are we've been following some of her wins. And this is really exciting. So she is here. Here we go. "I'm here in Scotland at my cottage that I wrote down in May of 2021 that I wanted in a year. A year later, we had a hard-hit place that fell through because the universe knew it wasn't for us. It really wasn't yet to grieve that loss and then dug deeper into raising more funds by investing in further coaching up leveling my online offerings. And here we are two years later and was exactly two years to the date I wrote the vision for our Scotland home that we signed. I wrote that I wanted it to be a traditional cottage in a village with a woodland a river the sea and walking distance and hills, too. Wasn't asking for much LOL turns out that we got it all all of it. Today I'm here and the power of the pause I wanted to create taking the entire month off. I'm in that vision that the universe provided and because I had that extra year of digging in and investing we are now in a better financial position. So I feel more confident taking the time off and doing some fun renovations to the cottage. So today this is my big win. And I'm full of gratitude. I also want to remind us all about the power of the pause. I've had more clarity and vision for the future in the four days since I've been here that I haven't ages the space and the pause makes us more creative, clear and concise. Will return. Fuck yeah, Claire." So I had the pleasure of seeing because you're in Agency, seen what those visions were so many years ago. I remember when you lost that cottage, but I also I love the actions you took after that I love that you also share those actions because I think sometimes we don't realize that like when something doesn't go well it doesn't mean it's not for you. You had that vision for a reason. But you actually took stock of what you could do to make changes and you're in a much better position you got everything you wanted, which is exactly like the right thing for it to happen and also go to enjoy a month off. Yes, you know, I love when people are like I want to have a month off and then they take the actions to make it happen. They can competently do it. Congratulations. Also, I just want to say this. She has a book. She's been in our she's been on our podcast before. And it was October of 2022.

Lesley Logan 5:11  

I believe it came out or maybe No, actually, I'm sorry, December 2022. We'll make sure that Claire's Sparrow's episodes in the show notes, because her book is coming out in September, so you're gonna want to watch okay, my win super quick. 

Lesley Logan 5:24  

So, my win. I see y'all know, I was on tour a while back. And something that I realized, through some of the journaling I'm doing is that I actually had a massive win that I didn't celebrate yet with you, which is that I actually had fun with social media while on the tour. I had the best time and like, I thought that's a weird win to say, but like, I have to do social media for work, honestly, like, sometimes I'm like, Oh my God, if I was just like someone who like got to just go to work in an office nine to five and be like, you know, I would just be like a voyeur. I wouldn't actually be on social, I wouldn't be a voyeur. Unless someone sent me a reel I need to see. Because the reality is like, I love to read. And I love to write, and I love to walk. And I love to like experience life. And so sometimes I just don't love social, but I had the most fun. And it really allowed me when I came back from the tour, to see the social media part of my job to be a fun thing. And not like, oh, it's part of my job. And I think we all need that, especially those who are listening this where social media is part of the gig that you have to do. Get yourself into a position where you can play with it a bit more, so that you can fall back in love with like, why am I doing this? I'm doing social media and not because I like want the likes and followers, I could give two fucks I'm doing it because I want I want people to have access to movement that is going to change their life. I want as many people to do Pilates as fucking possible. It's why we coach teachers on their business. It's why I made the flashcards It's why we are on YouTube. And this podcast is part of that whole vision. So for me to just like get myself into place where I could just have some fun with it and then come back and still have fun with it. Humongous win in my book. Okay, so something I wanted to add. And I'll tell you more on another win why why I like this came up is I just wanted to give you a little affirmation because sometimes we like I really close I have no fucking win. Okay, well, then you're gonna repeat this. Here's an affirmation I found online that I really liked. Changing my mind is a strength, not a weakness. Let's say it one more time. Changing my mind is a strength, not a weakness. Maybe we should hear that one more time. Changing my mind is a strength, not a weakness. I hope you repeated that after me. And my love. I hope you take a moment to write down a win you had even if it's like hey, I'm having a great fucking hair day. Because that is a win. Love you all so much. Thank you for listening as pod thank you for sharing this podcast with others. It is the only way we get people to hear about us in this wide wide world. So I appreciate you so much. Have an amazing day. And until next time, be it till you see it. 

Lesley Logan 7:49  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network.

Brad Crowell 7:49  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 7:49  

It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell 7:49  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 7:49  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell 7:49  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.