Be It Till You See It

Recapping pilates instructor and pelvic floor specialist, Claire Sparrow, Brad and Lesley breakdown the conversation around your pelvic floor health and how to open up the conversation to all. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Life on the road & more on Feng Shui
• What the heck is a pelvic floor anyway? 
• Removing the fear around prolapse
• Does Pilates help your pelvic floor? 
• Opening up the conversation for all genders 

Episode References/Links:

• Feng Shui workbook
• Claire Sparrow Profitable Pilates Course

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co hosts in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the flooring convo I have with Claire Sparrow in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. And you're gonna want to listen to it because we there's no way we could cover all the things that she explained. But y'all if you've heard about your pelvic floor, if you've been told to strengthen your pelvic floor, if you've just been told, oh, you pelvic... it's okay that weak pelvic floor because you had all these kids like, no. Remember Jessica Valant whole thing that like just because it's normal doesn't mean it's optimal. So go back and listen to Claire, first of all, she has an amazing accent. So it's really one, wonderful to listen to. What do you think? (Brad: I think so.) Yeah. So anyways, go listen to that one but you can listen to this one now ...

Brad Crowell  

Well, she you know I mean it's what is the pelvic floor? I like (Lesley: It's not a floor ...) come from your from the yoga world. And we don't talk about pelvic floor over there. But I always like I had one teacher years ago talk about the punch bowl of the hips and he talked about keeping it level so that you punch bowls not spilling anything ever. And so that's what I came from so when I learned this phrase the pelvic floor, I'm just imagining a fucking punch bowl. (Lesley and Brad laughs) I never told Claire that but ....

Lesley Logan  

She knows that now. I also just love that she's like it's not even a floor like right there is like, why are we calling it that? Because it does make you think that like, you know, I don't know, it just makes you think you have to like, put a new flooring, and that's not that's not it at all. So it's a diaphragm. Anyways, that's also an episode. So, um, we are currently clearly sitting next to each other.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, surprise, we decided to change it up a little bit today.

Lesley Logan  

We have to do this to other podcast where we're a couple and so like, the best thing to do was just like be on the same side because they were on their same side. And then Brad left town and then he came back and went to record these recaps before we travel and the mi...

Brad Crowell  

Still set up this way. (Lesley: Still set up this way. So ...) But it's kind of cool. You know, it could be it could be good, it's a little weird that I'm not looking at you.

Lesley Logan  

I know. I'm like ...

Brad Crowell  

I know. We keep looking glancing at each other.

Lesley Logan  

It's weird. Anyways, (Brad: Yeah. We'll see. We'll see.) I don't think we're sticking with it. Because I have to sit in my chair in a weird way. It's not, I'm not loving it. Anyways, we're gonna we're gonna love it for the moment. (Brad: I'm loving it.) So we are currently if you listening to this in real time, we are somewhere around Delaware at this point in time. We're in Delaware right now.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we're in Delaware right now.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, we're in Delaware. So that means we have we have hit up Dallas, Houston, Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, Greensboro, and we are chillin in Delaware, which I think we probably are about to drive into Philly at this point. But yeah, it's winter tour time. And if you are like, "What this tour is happening? How do I get in on it?" There are two options left. I'm gonna be honest. It says you can join us in Cleveland, St. Louis, St. Louis has sold out. But ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, St. Louis is probably sold out at this point, Cleveland has a few extra spots. (Lesley: It's sold out so fast.) If there's a demand for in St. Louis like, we have the potential to add a second class. But you got to tell us that that's something you're interested in. (Lesley: Yeah) It's a reformer class. So you know, just send us a DM.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So I'm it, I love our tours. So much fun. Before the tour, I got to go to one of our stops, right, like a week before. (Brad: Yeah) That, it's just it's a lot of fun to get out and see all we love, we love where we live. We love to get out and get to where you are. So that's a lot of fun. We will be hanging out in Denver for a little lunch sesh. So if you are one of our peeps out in Denver, make sure you reach out to us ... so we can let you know.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, cuz we don't know exactly what time we'll be rolling through. So we're gonna get not until we get a little closer.

Lesley Logan  

No, it's a road trip. So we're, you know, if we can have a detour we can like, go shopping. The dogs need a dog park. So we were some of these things you fly by the seat of your pants. And we just want to say, because while while there might be another episode, no, the next episode that you'll hear us is after Christmas. So right now and take this moment to say we're wishing you a very happy holiday. (Brad: Yeah) We hope you're enjoying your family. (Brad: Yeah, absolutely.) If you don't enjoy your family, I hope you're having a great time rocking out with yourself in the family you chose.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, exactly. Or being by yourself. Because (Lesley: Oh my God.) that could be great, too.

Lesley Logan  

I did Thanksgiving alone ish. My dad and I went out had dinner or lunch together. And I have to just say this. It was glorious. I slept in. And then I was like, I don't have I don't I don't have anything, I don't any I can't do whatever I want. Whatever I want right now, I highly recommend at least a holiday alone. Anyways, okay, we have to talk about Claire. But first, we have an audience question to share.

Brad Crowell  

We do. This is really cool. So thank you for actually reaching out here and firing off this question. It was specifically about a previous episode. So if you all heard ... (Lesley: 157) Yeah. Episode 157 with Kate Wind. The question was, hey, I'm listening to the latest episode today. Are there any Feng Shui books you would recommend? And we thought, since we're not the person to answer this question, we should reach out to Kate. So she actually just got back to us. And she said, well, she actually wrote a book. (Lesley: Yeah) And she would absolutely recommend her book. (Lesley: Yeah) So her book is called Vision Board Feng Shui, and it's an E-WorkBook. And we will have the link for you in the show notes. So (Lesley: Yeah) basically, she said, It's great for all levels of people who are interested in Feng Shui, it'll help you understand the concepts and start, you know, working through that in your own life.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, and so you can, so Kate Wind has, she's on Instagram, and she has her own podcast as well she and her mom do it's called Mom and Me and Astrology. And I really do get a kick out of their podcast it's I just love her view on these things. And I also have another listener bold moment was like, I looked up where my door faces and I like looked up what that is and I just love hearing these things from you guys because thank you for listening first of all, that's amazing. But also the whole goal of bringing these different guests on is to help you make changes and you don't have to make these big changes like even Kate said it right but even Claire said you don't have to like go all in it's an all or nothing. It's like what can you like just look up you know, someone else looked up their Strength Finders, they did their their their Strength Finders as well. (Brad: Oh, I love that.) Yes. And so so we have to have a whole conversation. (Brad: Share share us your results.) Yeah, so I got a result. We were on a coaching call. She's an Agency member. (Brad: Okay great. Okay cool.) And then we got to use Kevin Kepple. I don't remember ihis episode was like 150, 149, 151, (Brad: That's recent.) that's recent. And he was saying like the balcony in the basement so we're able to like look at our strengths and we use Kevin's references to like talk about like, how we're her balcony would be and then we're where the basement and beyond this so she could be on the lookout. So anyways, (Brad: That's amazing.) you guys, are you allowed to send us any question you want to the @be_it_pod, you can do it on Instagram, you can send to support. I think we've emailed [email protected]

Brad Crowell  

No, it's not it's [email protected].

Lesley Logan  

Oh, well, I've been telling everyone [email protected] because ...

Brad Crowell  

We don't have Gmail. So that definitely is not it. So there's that. (Lesley: Well...) [email protected].

Lesley Logan  

Okay, well, if you if you sent ... there. Send it to this new one. I don't know. I don't know what I read. Anyways. Okay, let's talk about Claire Sparrow.

Brad Crowell  

Okay, let's talk about Claire Sparrow, all the way from Leeds in the UK. Claire Sparrow is a Pilates teacher for over two decades, who specializes in working with women experiencing chronic pelvic floor dysfunction, after going through a traumatic birth experience herself. She didn't want to have surgery. So she healed herself through movement and breathwork instead. And now she actually brings hope to other women who are going through the same issues where there seems to be no answer. And she supports these women in person. She actually has a studio, a Pilates studio in Leeds. And also she has an amazing online program that will help you restore, restore yourself back to normal so that you can live the life that you want to be leading.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Well, I just I love her. And it was so fun because we ended up that was an in house podcast. (Brad: Yeah, that was super fun.) She was, she was here at the house. She was staying with us. It was a crazy week. We had her and John Steele. And ....

Brad Crowell  

We did. It was actually amazing. It was such a fun week.

Lesley Logan  

It just felt like what where are the cameras now? Because this is a reality ... at this point, like an 87 year old man is like tapping on the window to come in and use the house and like that man happens to be the author of a book and like, you know, was Joseph Pilates like adopted son.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Amazing. So I'm going to happen here first and talk about the elephant in the room. Okay? What the heck is a pelvic floor anyway? And is a prolapse as terrifying as terrifying as it sounds. (Lesley: So a two elephants?) Two elephants. (Lesley: Okay) Well, because they mentioned prolapse, they mentioned you know, she mentioned prolapse and pelvic floor. So first off the pelvic floor, I'm just going to literally read well, like I listened to the section of the pod like three times, I'm gonna read what my notes on this because I want to make sure I get it right. So the pelvic floor is a set of dynamic muscles, three main muscles that are interwoven, like a French braid, they attached to the back and front of your pelvis, and each of your sitting bones on your butt, on your bottom. So they are meant to expand and lengthen. Three times the resting length. So meaning if the resting length is one foot, they are meant to expand to three feet to up to three feet, when you're doing normal movement. So imagine when you're doing a squat, if it's connected to your pelvis, you know that your butt and you're squatting, you're obviously lengthening that. Right. So that's the idea there. And then Claire use the example of like an elastic band, right, we've all used the Thera-Band. She said, it's not a floor, there's no floor at all, like, it's a weird term to call it a floor. She said it's more of like a diaphragm where it expands and shrinks. And also, she said, it's a superhighway of nerves, wrapped with those loads of muscles that she was just talking about. So the nerves that go through there are the biggest nerves in your entire body that will run straight through there as well. Which is part of the reason where, where this can be so complicated for women after childbirth, because you know, your body is going through something that's pretty extreme, and moving things around. And that can pinch things or not pinch things or whatever. And then it messes with your muscles, which are meant to hold all those nerves tightly and safely. And if your muscles get messed up, it can actually affect those nerves. So, nerves, so the nerves, those damn nerves. (Lesley: Your pelvic nerd.) Yeah, those pelvic nerds sounds like a fucking share to me.

Lesley Logan  

I just think it's I think there's those like those things and kids toys were like they go like, like ... if you're listening to this, you can't see what I'm doing. But you know, like, there's those like, those weird toys that like they come together like a little atom, and then they expand apart and they come together and like, thank goodness they do but why? Like, I know the human body makes a lot of sense. And these are muscles. So it's not organ, organ, but it like it feels like a little organ. Because it's like so important. And there's and it and it's a delicate balance like I mean the whole body is a delicate balance, which is why I love Pilates because nothing gets overworked or underworked. That's where your your pelvic floor can have the most problems because something can be overworked. And other things can be under worked. And then you you're out of balance. And that's where you get some issues. There's one more elephant you wanted to address.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. So what is a prolapse? Right. I mean, it's just the the word itself is, I mean, it's a little scary sounding. And when we, the common misconception is that something has fallen out of you, or dropped and, you know, whatever. There's, it's just a very weird, visual and Claire's is kind of on a mission to change the way we talk about that. And she said, it's actually just moved or displaced, meaning, like so so your, if your muscles are not in a, they're not strong enough to hold those nerves and protect those nerves, those same muscles are also holding your organs into place. Right? So if your muscles are weak, then they can't do that they can't operate in that fashion. And that would that means that your organs have the potential to slide around to somewhere where they're not supposed to be? Because the muscles aren't strong enough to hold them in place. That is a prolapse. Okay, so she actually specifically used the uterus as an organ that has has the potential to move. You know, if you have a, you know, if you're dealing with pelvic floor stuff, and that's actually what happened to her. And so she talked about that. And then, so anyway, I think that it's really important to just like, get rid of this, like, terrifying concept of what a prolapse is. Yes, it's definitely (Lesley: You don't want it to happen.) You don't want it to happen. I'm not saying it's not a big deal. But it's also not like, you're not like, you know, your organ is not dropping out of your body. Yeah, that's not what's happening here. So

Lesley Logan  

It's not it's not ... to never be back to never be back in place again, like it's there are options. So, which I think is like, nice and helpful. Okay, I'm gonna jump in.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, having covered those, I thought about that as like the elephant in the room, because I think it's important to dispel any preconceived notions. Such as the punch bowl analogy I put at the beginning, you know, or whatever the hell else it is that that has gone through, you know, any of our heads here, because when we can all talk about the same thing, then we can have a better, more educated conversation about it.

Lesley Logan  

Well, I think it's so that you can, if you are going through something and like you feel something is out of place. And I mean, I've had friends who've definitely felt down there and sometimes not been right. Having a better understanding scientifically around what you're going through is going to allow you to have a conversation with your doctor or your provider, in a way that makes you feel seen, and, and that you understand what's going on. And this is something that's very important. If you just go if it doesn't feel right, the doctor doesn't know how to handle that. But if you can actually like it, through listening to these experts that we bring in, if it allows you to advocate for yourself, and we have, we have an advocate coming, do we that's coming out next ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, couple couple more episodes, we have a health advocate on as a guest.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So she talks about like, having this information so that when you talk to your provider, you can actually have specifics to talk to them about, it's going to allow you to have a stronger conversation with them and get the help that you need. So you don't have to be afraid of these things. And you can actually understand what they're saying, they can understand what you're saying, you can get the help faster. Okay, my thing. Of course, I loved that she talked to help answer the question, "Will Pilates help strengthen your pelvic floor?" And this is where we like chatted a little bit about the all teachers are the same, like for example, I'm not don't count me for your pelvic floor, clearly, but also like that's, yes, the Pilates that I teach could help that. But if you are in an acute situation where you do need to balance your pelvic floor out, then I want you to seek out a teacher who has actually been trained in this way, you can actually reach out to Claire because she has teachers that she's trained. She also has a course for this for this. She has classes to help you out with that. And I love that she also talked about like it's it's less about telling the pelvic floor what to do and more about stimulating it and that's where she got into the thing about the key goals. Oh my gosh, I had so many clients ... I'm doing my key goals at the stoplight and I'm like, okay, there's some other things down there. We got to do. We don't want to just like overdo it with those things, and that's, that obviously can cause the issues that Brad talked about in his talking points from her. But she, she mentioned that we can do more about stimulating the pelvic floor properly. So we can teach it how to move on its own without us thinking about it. And that's like, that's where Pilates really can come into place, especially if you have a teacher who knows how to incorporate Pilates and the pelvic floor. And here's why I don't think about my posture. I do enough Pilates that my body thinks about my posture for me, your body is actually when it's imbalanced. When you actually balance all the muscles, your body knows how to walk, sit, sneeze, breathe, all things without you going. Did I think about that? Did I think about inhaling that way, you know what I mean? So like, if you are, for example, trying to work on breathing through your nose more, it means you think about it a while. But hopefully over time, the goal is that your body will do it on its own. So I really loved that she talked about stimulating the pelvic floor properly. So we can teach it how to move. It's just a little bit of retraining, right? Because who knows how long you've been doing it the other way? So anyways, I love she's just I mean, I felt like I went to I felt like I did a three hour course in like 45 minutes.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I mean, I think she talked about the difference between kegals and like, what, how the concept that Dr. Kegel came up with with Kegel exercises, and using Kegel devices, how Pilates can help stimulate similarly. So I think that's pretty amazing. That Pilates can do that.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I know. I think it's I mean, it's all impressive. So yes, if you're coming to a Pilates for your pelvic floor, absolutely do that. But definitely make sure that the teacher you're with has done some training in it. Because, you know, we all like Pilates can also help with Parkinson's, Pilates can also help with a lot of knee surgeries. But when you start to get nuanced like that, you're gonna want to find someone who's gone down a path to get more training in that.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, definitely. All right, let's talk about those BE IT action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your conversation with Claire Sparrow? I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw out the first one here. And really, truly it's talk about it. Open up conversations about pelvic floor, I know that it can be embarrassing. I don't personally know that. But I know that people are embarrassed about what happens. You know what's happening with their body. And it's it can become an awkward conversation. But it shouldn't be. It doesn't have to be.

Lesley Logan  

And also we talked about it hasn't come up in this episode we did. So that's why you have to listen to Claire's actual interview, we talked about can do men have one? And can they have issues? (Brad: Yes.) She actually said yes. And these are the signs of it. And you know, I'm not going to name names, but you had some men in your life who went through a certain situation down there, and became like a cancer situation. And because of that, you were like, "Huh, how am I doing? Let me go get that checked out." And so it's like, the more we talk about (Brad: Right) anything going on with our health, the more likely we can actually save more people from going down the wrong path for a long time.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I think that pelvic floor issues are becoming even more common, because people are sitting more and more with their desk jobs. And then also, Claire specifically called out truck drivers, because they're sitting for, you know, 8 10 12 hours at a shot while they're moving the the trucks around. And ...

Lesley Logan  

Well, our yoga teacher said it like chairs and shoes are the worst inventions. But like, you notice, I think it's also a more common because people are also talking about it, like I think ...

Brad Crowell  

Right? Like it's actually just awareness.

Lesley Logan  

Just awareness. (Brad: Yeah) So keep the awareness going. Make sure you talk about it to the men and women and, and, and everyone.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, and I'm gonna I'm just gonna jump around here because this isn't, wasn't on our timeline. But there was there was something very specific that I wanted to mention. If you've been told, you just have a weak pelvic floor, or you've had three children, this is normal. Oh, this is because of your age. And there's nothing that can be done. That's not the case.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think we, I mean, we've said it in many episodes, but seriously, just just because a lot of people went through that doesn't mean you have to live with that. You know, just because it's normal doesn't mean it's optimal. Like that is, Thank you Jessica for that phrase, right there. My be it ... My BE IT action item is, could we just let it go. So like ... about like, the fear, fear you gotta let that go. Because that's not helping you. In fact, that might even be causing more problems because when we're in fear, we sort of tense muscles and things like that and create more of a mo...

Brad Crowell  

It can mess with your sleep, your stress, your digestion.

Lesley Logan  

Which is not going to help any of the things.

Brad Crowell  

Any of the things.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So let the fear go. You know, do what we, you'll hear it in and Lindsay's episode in a few weeks about like what you can do to make sure you are prepared to advocate for yourself in this situation. (Brad: Yeah) And that's going to take some of that fear away. And it's going to let you get the help that you need. She also meant to let, we're oftentimes pulling things in all the time. So we've talked about this before it was what episode but like, you shouldn't even be pulling your abs in all the time, like a Pilates instructor is often do this, because they're keeping their abs and they're teaching people their abs and your abdominals should be able to go in and out just like your diaphragm goes in and out just like your pelvic floor should not be in a tense mode all the time, it's only going to create more problems, just so you know that the app thing you will come become constipated. It's called hypertension, just (Brad: Yeah, I mean ...) jor no hype...

Brad Crowell  

I don't know what it's called. But if you keep you know, basically, when you're tensing all those muscles all the time, you're not allowing the bones to move, the muscles to move or anything. And that's supposed to be happening down there. So she specifically, Claire specifically said, your pubic bone has to move. And you can't, you know, you're not allowing it moves when you breathe. And if you're tense when you're breathing, you're not actually allowing anything to move at all. (Lesley: Yeah) And that's actually not benefiting you.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So obviously, when you're doing Pilates, you have a special special way of breathing. So do that. But then in life, she mentioned like getting that breath all the way down to the pubic bone. And I was like, trying to do that I was like, and I was, I was like, visualizing, I'm like, I think it's like just just above it. I'm not getting all the way there. So, so I got to work on that. But all these was just, it was just so I'm so glad to finally have her on the pod. She's not only she's so passionate about that, but she's truly changing people's lives with this. And the more teacher she's able to teach this to and the more people she's able to teach this to, her course is so thorough, it's so beneficial, the better we all will be.

Brad Crowell  

I mean, I was just floored by her interview. So

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, just by her interview, you're floored.

Brad Crowell  

I was floored.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, I got it.

Brad Crowell  

You got it. Okay. Thanks.

Lesley Logan  

I got it. 

Listen, if you take away nothing else from this interview, notice there's hope to get back to a normal life and pelvic floor issues don't have to stop you from living and doing the things you want to do. We talked about this in our interview, I not just pelvic floor issues, but I really do see that a lot of people's health issues, keep them from moving their life forward. (Brad: Yeah, sure.) And it doesn't have to be that way. But especially, especially this, like, we taught, like so many people are not doing things with their children or not (Brad: Yeah) saying yes to things because of, of what's going on down there. And it's like, there's hope for you. So

Brad Crowell  

And menopause does affect this, this region. So if you are going into menopause, and you have not addressed the pelvic floor issues you may have that can actually make things worse. So it's important to be aware of this kind of stuff sooner than later. But there's, there's still, you can still do things about it. In fact, Claire talked about one of her students that had pelvic floor issues, unaddressed pelvic floor issues for more than three decades, and is now addressing them and is now living a far more normal and enjoyable life than she has been for decades. So you know, there's, that's exciting to hear. I think that's amazing. I think it's incredible.

I just wanted to say. So basically, Claire has this awesome course. Right? In our show notes, we're going to, we've got a link down there specifically for you to go click through and see, you know, her course and what it could offer, she's got two versions of it. One is for teachers like Pilates teachers or fitness teachers who obviously will probably have an understanding of anatomy and stuff like that. She has another version of the course for people who are not teachers. So if this if you're like, I don't really understand the biology so much, maybe there's a version that's not for the teachers is going to be perfect for you. So click that link specifically because it'll let you, let her know that we sent you. And, you know, honestly, if you have an incredible experience with Claire, let us know. Because we love her. We already know she's amazing. We are incredibly confident that you will love her too. And, you know, hopefully she can help you through this delicate time. So,

Lesley Logan  

All right. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan  

Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you going to use these in your life? We want to know and we have to just say again, we're so grateful for you, for each one of you. For those of you who tell us is how each episode affected you in your life and also for sharing it with your friends and family. It is truly meaningful to us and it's actually what helps us get this podcast out to get more people. So thank you for doing that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell  

Bye for now

Lesley Logan  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day! 

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli.   

Lesley Logan  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.  

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.   

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can. 

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Your life should not be determined by the lack of reliability of your pelvic floor. If you can't dance, laugh, or jump without worry this episode is for you there is a solution. And it’s not just for women! Pelvic health isn't a topic defined by gender.  

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How you restore your pelvic floor health. 
• The harm in traditional pelvic floor training and what to do instead.
• Why society overlooks treating pelvic floor injury. 
• How your pelvic floor is determining your life. 
• What a pelvic floor, why does it matter? 
• Will Pilates help strengthen your pelvic floor? 
• Can men have Pelvic floor issues too? 
• Don’t accept the discomfort and worry as normal. There is hope for pelvic floor issues 
• Educate the young sooner, rather than later 

Episode References/Links:

• Whole Body Pelvic Health Website
• Follow Claire on IG
• Check out Claire's YT channel

Guest Bio:

Mum of 3 Claire Sparrow is a Second Generation Pilates teacher, Polestar Pilates Educator & Pilates studio owner since 2005 where she specialises in women’s health & Post-Graduate Pilates Education. Claire is a straight-talking and inspiring Scottswomen with an inclusive and rigorous approach to teaching Pilates. She has an absolute passion for all things Pilates, building communities and inspiring and supporting people to discover the possibilities within themselves, all whilst maintaining a sense of humour.

Claire is the living embodiment of “you are the architect of your own happiness”. After discovering Pilates in 1998 as a young dance student when it resolved her debilitating knee injury she has been evangelical about the benefits ever since. Teaching since 2002, Claire has a wealth of qualifications and never stops learning - training with Pilates Institute, Fit To Deliver, APPI, STOTT, Natural Bodies and of course Polestar, and most recently, becoming a Second Generation Teacher graduating from the Lolita San Miguel Master Mentorship Program 2019. Claire founded her Online Studio in 2020 to create accessible education for women with pelvic health conditions & teachers from apprenticeship programs bridging the gap between training and teaching to specialist mentoring in Pelvic Health & how to balance self care with an efficient teaching schedule.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

All right, Be It babe. How are you doing today? I'm really excited for you to hear this episode. I know I've been bringing on different guests with women's health. And you're like, "Okay, Les I got it." No, there's we got to keep talking about it because until it's common discussion, we have to keep talking about it. And today's guest is one of my favorite humans on this planet, you'll hear me introduce her in just a moment. But truly, she is a gift to this world not only with the knowledge she has, but the energy she has and her mission on this planet. And if you have a pelvic floor, which by the way, if you're listening to this you do whether you're male or female, someone has had a baby or not, this discussion is for you. And it is very important that you hear all these amazing words. And I am really excited for us to, as listeners, if we and people in this Be It pod community if we can all start to help women and men talk about and understand that you don't have to live with these things just because you had a child or just because you have this issue. Oh, well, you can keep going. No, it's just so important that we are aware that there are actions we can take. And there are options for us and you don't have to just live with it. And so Claire Sparrow is our guest today. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you will see that she is in Brad's seat, and it's actually quite fun. She was here this week in Las Vegas, and I've been looking forward to interviewing her all week long. This discussion is wonderful. And I can't wait to hear how you share this with your friends and the actions you take at the end.

Hi Be It babes. Well, this is a very special, exciting moment because today's guest is actually in person with me. And what makes it even more exciting, you'll be able to hear it from her accent is that she doesn't even live here in Las Vegas. So we have a very special special moment for you. My guest today is Claire Sparrow, and this woman I have known for several years now. And she always brightens my ... like brightens the room, even though most of the time I've only ever seen her on a zoom screen. But what I love most about her and I can't wait is her mission on this planet, to help so many women with something that's so common, and we can we'll get into that in a moment. But Claire Sparrow, please introduce yourself to the Be It community.

Claire Sparrow  

Well, hello Lesley and hello the Be It community. It's great to be here. So I'm Claire Sparrow. And I am Scottish. And I live in the North of England in Leeds. And I have been teaching Pilates for over two decades. And I work specifically with women with chronic pelvic floor dysfunction who have come to the end of their wits, trying everything that is recommended to them and not having the results that they want or deserve, really, and I step in and give them hope. And the answers that they didn't even know were available to them.

Lesley Logan  

Well, I think I hate that people have to get to the wits and like, can you actually share, like, what brought you onto that journey? And if and if we can also why people have to get to the wits end. And before they can get help?

Claire Sparrow  

Yeah, so I mean, it comes as many things do when you find your mission, a lot of the time it's comes from personal experience. And for me, it certainly is the case. I have my own pelvic floor dysfunction after a traumatic birth, which led to birth injury. I then had a prolapse, which I believed I could heal through movement and breath and natural processes versus surgery. And I did that, and it's amazing. And I can do all of the things that I ever wanted to do with my three children, we climb trees, we run around, we play all the games we want to do, I am not afraid of trampoline. And so I mean, this week, I've been to the gym and done jumping jacks, and I have absolutely no fear whatsoever, because I've been able to restore the health of my pelvic floor. And many women don't even know that that's a possibility. So when I sat to to create my program, it was because more and more women were coming to me and just sort of mentioning on on the side, like as a secondary thing or and also I have a bit of incontinence or or and also I've got a prolapse. And most of the women that started to then come to me when I was building a reputation for helping other women, they would come to me because they had been recommended to do traditional exercises. They diligently done that for a good period of time and had expected to see a result, a change and a sustained change in that time. And unfortunately for some women, they were getting no change. And for some women their symptoms actually were getting worse by doing traditional methods.

Lesley Logan  

So by traditional methods are talking about for incontinence, you're not (Claire: So for ...) like the gym but like ...

Claire Sparrow  

No. So traditional methods of pelvic floor training, so pelvic floor exercises, some people might know key goals as an example, in the UK, we have an app called the Squeezy app, where you know, get reminders to squeeze your pelvic floor. And you know, and people say, you know, we see it in the media a lot where people say, "Yeah, I'm doing my pelvic floor exercises as we speak." And, and it's just not as simple as that is what I always say, you know, it's just not as simple as that, because it's part of our postural whole, it's part of our whole entire body. So to work something in isolation, it's just doesn't make sense. So those traditional exercises are what people have been doing, and many people have have actually had the women that I've worked with certainly have have made their symptoms worse, because they're strengthening that imbalance that's there in their pelvis, from posture or from a birth injury because I don't know if you know this, Lesley, but actually 90% of women who have had a vaginal birth have a birth injury.

Lesley Logan  

That is, so here's what's crazy to me if 90% of women is should obviously not someone who had has had a child, but I would imagine that you leave the hospital and there should be like, "Hey, and here's your pelvic floor health health referral. And here's these things and here..." None of that's happening.

Claire Sparrow  

No. So what what can happen is people will get an information leaflet to do traditional pelvic floor exercise ... So that's, that's what's out there in the mainstream. And that's, that's the challenge, actually, that I face and other people like myself doing this work in this way is that the traditional recommendation the, the easy route is this leaflet that's given out or a app that you can get on your phone. And we have to remember that these are women. You know, the first occurrence of the injury, if we talk specifically about pelvic floor injury and childbirth, the first instance they had an injury when giving birth, then they've now got another human that they're responsible for. (Lesley: Right) So I know, even as somebody in the know, when I had my child, I, it was a good six months before I started paying attention to me again. (Lesley: Right, right, right.) So that leaflet, I probably got one and didn't even you know, it just disappeared, (Lesley: Right) because you are so intently focused on this new responsibility.

Lesley Logan  

Well and that's also assuming that everything is fine, hormonally. So (Claire: Yeah) you're like not postpartum in any way (Claire: Correct) so that you can ... to go, "Oh, I had a leaflet, I think ..."

Claire Sparrow  

Correct. And some women don't even know that they've had a birth injury or acknowledge it as an injury that can be treated or improved upon in the way that if you sprained your ankle, you would treat that injury. (Lesley: Yeah) And we're not treating pelvic floor injury because it's inside us, internally. It's not seen.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, and it makes me well, it's also it's also like the like, "Oh, here, do your Kegel." That's kind of like, well, we gave them something. (Claire: Oh yeah) And, and what it's probably terrible is that people feel embarrassed about these things. Because it is some of the things that the symptoms of it are a bit embarrassing, nobody wants to, to share that they like I remember growing up the women in my life, were like, "Don't make me laugh."

Claire Sparrow  

Yeah, yeah, that is a common common common statement, "Don't make me laugh." Or, you know that so many moms are avoiding the activities that they would like to be doing in their life, whether it's as a mum or just a women in the world, (Lesley: Yeah) because of fear of what might happen if they go to the trampoline park. Or if they go and join a running group, or if they want to do an adventure like you know, climbing a mountain, that they don't have the security and reliance on their pelvic floor to sustain them for those activities that they might want to do. And another piece of that is that those women who go and investigate and ask for some help, are more often than not told that their pelvic floor is weak, they're told that it's weak, and it needs to be strengthened. And in my experience, and even as I see it, I remember how this made me feel. I felt weak, it was more than my pelvic floor that they were saying was weak. I embodied emotionally, psychologically, weakness. And this is what I also see with a lot of the women that I work with that their their life is being determined by (Lesley: Yeah) the lack of reliability on the pelvic floor.

Lesley Logan  

Well, and as you said that so like, obviously we carefully but listening going, "Well, okay, well, it's okay. I don't need to be on trampoline. It's okay. I don't really want to rock climb." But like so let's exclude the, the activities because maybe people like, "I'm okay with that. It's okay, I won't do that again." The fact that you just said that you embodied and you felt weak. I have I wonder like, what all of that kept you from doing that was in your life that wasn't just chasing your kids around but like was like things on this planet that make you feel who you are.

Claire Sparrow  

Exactly. And I think that for me, I held back and had a lack of confidence. And it affected me a great deal actually. And I did have postnatal depression after my first because of the whole expedience and being told that my pelvic floor was weak and I would need to strengthen it even though that didn't make sense to me even then. And I think that there's many women that are in the same situation where they're not living their their potential because of this, and also, just to go back to say, you know, that if there are people listening who they think right now, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with not doing this in that. Okay, now, what happens in 20 or 30 years time? I work with women who are postnatal 30 years after they've given birth, because they've not known or been able to do something about the birth injury until 30 years later, till they've meet me and they've had, you know, they, I had a client who just stopped having sex, because her pain, and because her continence was affected when she did. So she just thought that's it. Sex life is over. And she's now 68 69. And she's having a great life. (Claire and Lesley laughs) And it is effects every imagine not feeling like a sexy, capable woman. (Lesley: Yeah) Like ...

Lesley Logan  

I mean and like, that's the thing like, it keep that kind of thing keeps you from like, that means she's not connecting with her partner, (Claire: Yeah) that means she's and then that (Claire: The relationships you're influenced.) that that changes how you feel, because now you don't even like that connection is something that is not even you can't even verbalize it, that is a different kind. And then that leads to other things in the relationship, which bleeds into the parts of your life. And it just doesn't make you feel all alone. (Claire: Yeah) And we can't do anything on this planet on our own. (Claire: Alone. Yeah.) We do it with community. So you said a couple things earlier, and just in case people have not known these words, can you explain first of all what our pelvic floor is? And, and then also prolapse just because I want to make sure everyone's on the same page.

Claire Sparrow  

Sure, I'm going to answer that. And I'm also going to say that just to round up the the future you piece. So I gave the example of the client who realized 30 years later, that she could do something about her pelvic floor. Also, when you go through the menopause and the hormones change, the injury that you had, when you had your child, then can become more of an issue. And that's when you think of that not jumping on the trampoline was fine when I was in my 30s and 40s. But now, actually, the result is that I've prolapsed because I didn't do the work air layer. So how thick organ prolapse is when an organ so uterus, for example, displaces from its natural resting place in the pelvis. A lot of the time and this is it's where language again, we talked about weakness. Another language piece is that it's described as when the organ falls out, nothing's falling out, have you ever, we're always still connected. And this idea of dropping and falling is just not very helpful. Because immediately and I even felt it myself, as I said the words there, I could feel myself like pulling in. I don't need to pull in, my body smart enough to do it for me when it's necessary. But what happens is that, that it creates more fear when we're thinking about something falling out of us. (Lesley: Yeah) Then I, yeah, I'm gonna cross my legs and I'm in a bit of fear now. Okay, it's not falling, it's displaced. Okay, so it's all held together in this stretchy mass. And when there's been a birth injury, so we're using this as the example. But it could also be overworking your glutes, for example, that this compensation has happened, it pools the organ out of place, out of alignment, rather than the organ of its own free will, dropping, it's not, it's being pooled there by attention and imbalance in the muscles or in the scar tissue from an injury.

Lesley Logan  

So that makes a lot of sense to me. Because, for example, I have the way I have the way I walk it over works this one part of my calf, which then pulls on my tibia, and it pulls on my tibia and just the way that it twist, just this twist a little bit and it's not like this visible thing that like I can see it happening, but just that little tiny degree puts a little bit of pain on my knee. There's nothing wrong with my knee. If I did an MRI, there's nothing like there's like nothing but if I massage that muscle, it releases and I don't have that pain. So what you're saying is either through birth injury or overworking of certain muscles in the area, we are pulling an organ out of place everything is supposed to live in a very equal balance thing. It's kind of like what, I feel like if my people love Pilates for it because Pilates is all about balancing our imbalances, (Claire: Exactly) but okay, so that makes a lot of sense to me. So thank you for clarifying because it does, I feel less scared that like something's going to drop out of my ...

Claire Sparrow  

Yeah, it's a balancing act all the time. And I think sometimes we can think like things just needs to be fixed, fixed in place still, it's there. And actually, as you know, as we go through our menstrual cycle, the organs are being pushed and moved and shifting and expanding and shrinking, and everything is dynamic all of the time, which is why your pelvic floor to go on to answer what is the pelvic floor? Pelvic floor is, it is a set of dynamic muscles. So it is not one muscle. So, you've got a set of three main muscles. And those muscles are interwoven, almost like a French braid, you know, like in a plant, okay, they're inter woven. And actually, the attached to the back of your pelvis, the front of your pelvis, and each of your sitting bones in your bottom, okay? And they're meant to, at the very least, expand and lengthen three times the resting length. (Lesley: Whoa) So and that happens, when you squat, when you get up and down out of a chair, it should happen. What we see a lot is that because we sit more, and we sit in, you know, more of a tilted under pelvis, so bottom tucked under that, that stopping the fanning out the expansion, that dynamic expansion, and if the muscles if you think about an elastic band, right, we can all visualize and elastic band stretching, okay? It needs to stretch, so it can ping back. (Lesley: Yeah) So that's what your pelvic floor needs to be able to do. It needs to be able to lengthen, so when you cough or sneeze, or jump on a trampoline, it can ping back for you.

Lesley Logan  

Right. And so when we're sitting all the time, we are not stretching it, we're not we're not ...

Claire Sparrow  

You are shortening the posterior pelvic floor. Most commonly when people are sitting in that tucked in position your tailbone ideally should be finding out behind you when you're saying so you're off on your pelvis.

Lesley Logan  

And so fascinated why I love my meditation chair, somehow (Claire: Yes, right.) I need to make that my desk chair. You know, this is so so this is very fascinating, because that is probably the most easy way to visualize it. And I think a lot of people just think of us as a amorphous like, floor that is like catching things.

Claire Sparrow  

And I always say it's actually not a floor, it's a diaphragm. Because it's not hard. It's not flat. It's not even parallel, is higher at the back because it is like it's just not how we visualize it. So even like using the word floor, we're living embodying it as something hard and flat. It's not it's like a diaphragm. It's got holes in it should be really flexible. (Lesley: Yeah) You know not how we think living in it.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, that is that is really fascinating to me. Okay, a couple other things that I know our listeners or want to know because I get this question a lot. But I'm, clearly listeners, not a pelvic floor specialist. But I get this question all the time. Like, will Pilates help with my pelvic floor? And I, my go to is if the person you're working with is a pelvic floor specialist. Yes, it will. But if they're so is that wrong? Am I, am I under cutting other teachers and myself? Or is it true that like, like, is Pilates on its own enough? Or do people really do need to have someone who's a specialist to help Pilates along?

Claire Sparrow  

So I mean, that that's a big question. Because actually, you know, as we know, not all Pilates is the same. So not all teachers are going to teach the work in the same way. I would prefer someone with a specific pelvic floor disorder dysfunction to see someone whose whole body pelvic health informed that teaches Pilates. Pilates and using the apparatus is the best means, the best by far, but only if the cueing and the exercise selection is done appropriately for pelvic health. The we go back to the key goals example. So Dr. Kegel created these exercises, based on women using an internal device to stimulate the muscles, okay. And it was called biofeedback. Because there was a dysfunction there, the brain that didn't know how to get the messages to the pelvic floor, so they gave biofeedback. We can give biofeedback in Pilates without going internally with a device. The exercises he did were not meant to be standalone exercises they were to be in conjunction with the device. So we just need to do things that are going to re stimulate the brain to pelvic floor, you know the neural pathway to those muscles again, and that we can do with loads of great movements with Pilates but not by telling the pelvic floor muscles to do something. (Lesley laughs) Okay.

Lesley Logan  

So so if someone's saying, move from your pelvic floor, that's not the same (Claire: Not) as (Claire: Definitely not.) thank you for saying that. Yeah. (Claire laughs) I always wonder because I would hear people and I'm this is not if you're someone listening, you said this, like, I'm not trying to dismiss you or or (Claire: No) anything at all, I think that the intention is pure and there, but I will hear it. (Claire: Of course.) And I'm like, "Is that how it works?" I haven't taken a workshop. So I don't know. So that makes a lot more sense to me, it's less about telling the pelvic floor what to do and more about stimulating ...

Claire Sparrow  

Stimulating it. You, we need to give it the information that it needs to do the things we want it to do. So a lot of people will be avoiding jumping, for example, we can teach things on the Reformer, where we can do rapid movements supine, so laying on your back, doing rapid movements, that will stimulate but it's less load, so it's challenging it less, but still in the right direction, before we can get them upright. So we need to train it for what we want it to do, but in a way that it's responding naturally. Because you can't like every time you want to cough or sneeze, tell the pelvic floor to do something, because it's too slow. We know from neuroscience, that by doing using imagery, or using the stimulus of the Pilates exercises, or the apparatus, that we get a much quicker response than our cognitive brains can make happen.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, I mean, that's it that is so true. I think like I always say we do Pilates to do life better. And like, you know, I say, I'm just here to help people fall better is really what it is. (Claire: Yeah) And that really came from many years ago, I had this woman in her 80s. And my people heard my podcast before have heard me say this, if you've heard me on a podcast at someone's, I would teach her the marching exercise, the archival standing, like just standing there marching without shifting the weight back and forth. And she'd go, "Why are we doing this?" And I'm like, "You're doing it for a minute. (Claire: Yeah) You're doing it." And she's like, "Why are we doing this?" I said, "Because when you miss a step, I want your body to know how to catch itself. Because if you always have to shift your weight to put a foot down, you're not going to do this." And sure enough, like, I really wish like, I feel like we put it out into the world. But that next day, she was out walking on Rodeo Drive, she was walking down these steps. And these are very weird steps, y'all. They're very, they're rounded at cement steps. And they're rounded. And they're quite shallow. And they're from this beautiful shopping center where the Cartier and the high end designers are. (Claire: Wow) And of course she's going there and she's walking down the steps. And she had her hands, she had one hand and a phone had a phone and the other hand had a bag. So she has not had no hands on a rail. That's fine, love that she, love that she's bravein' it at 80 something. She misses a step. And she said her body just took over ... Like you can't see me if you're not watching on YouTube, but her fluent ... and she would like she floated down the steps. (Claire: Amazing) It is not because she told her brain, "Okay, cue marching." Because we trained her body to to know it could do these things. And, you know, I can't be there with you when you reach for the top shelf, to grab something. But if I've taught you how to reach around from your back, so that you don't pull something, then in time you will do your body will do that. And so what you're saying is, our goal is to teach the pelvic floor how to move on its own. So that (Claire: Responsively) when there isn't a reason for it to connect it does it.

Claire Sparrow  

Correct. Correct. And that we are, our bodies are smarter than our brains are. (Lesley laughs) This is the thing, like we keep trying to outsmart our bodies. And this is not sustainable. We need to give the body the tools, give it the resources so that it can heal, and then be responsive to life. So that we can really do whatever we wanted. And is to do whatever you want to do. You know, one of my clients recently messaged me and she was like, "I just played cricket with my boys." And it was just like the best thing that you know, she started the program with me. And that was not possible for her. She had a prolapse and it was not. It just wasn't possible for her. And now she's restored her prolapse and she just was like, "I didn't even think about it and I was playing cricket."

Lesley Logan  

Oh, I love that so much because it really is like it's there are so many things they miss out on life when we are worried about what could happen. And and it's not even just about the cricket. It's about her having a shared experience with her boys. (Claire: Yeah) That her boys don't look back and go, "Oh, my mom never played with us."

Claire Sparrow  

Correct (Lesley: You know) and that's the future of her children to see what what's possible. Um, and you know, I have boys, and I educate my boys about pelvic health, so they know exactly what I do. And they can explain to other people what I do.

Lesley Logan  

I love that so much.

Claire Sparrow  

You know. That and I just feel like, it's not just a woman's problem. You know, I know. And I don't mean yes, men have pelvic floors, too. But I mean, women need to feel supported by everybody in the world, with their pelvic health, and we're not talking about it with our mothers, sisters and friends, let alone our partners and our male friends. We need to open up that conversation so much more. Because the minute, it's like anything a problem shared is a problem hafted (Lesley: Yeah) at least.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I love that. That is a beautiful way of saying. Well, and so for people listening, can people have, can pe... can women who have not had a child have pelvic floor issues? (Claire: Of course) And then can men have pelvic floor issues?

Claire Sparrow  

Of course. So pelvic floor, I mean, some people maybe don't even know what the issues might be, what the dysfunctions might be. I mean, incontinence is of course, one of the obvious ones. And that can be you know, you could leak a bit of wee or it could be the other both incontinence as are true. And pelvic organ prolapse. Okay, so when an organ displaces, that's another dysfunction. Sciatic pain is a result of pelvic floor dysfunction very, very often. Low back pain, sacroiliac joint pain can be a result of dysfunction in the pelvis. If you think about it, like super basically, and logically, your pelvis is in the middle, it's got this your center of gravity in it, everything from from your feet, travels up through your pelvis, everything from above, travels down through your pelvis. It's like the superhighway. Everything is passing through there. So massive junction, there's loads of nerves that run through there. There's nerves, so your sciatic nerve, your pudendal nerve, for example, they're really close to each other, and they're squished in by loads of muscles. And if those muscles are over, working, there are strangling those (Lesley: Yeah) nerves, and then you get nerve pain. The pudendal nerve, for example, can give you stabbing pains in your vagina. Some people can't sit down, let alone have sex, let alone wear clothing that's actually in contact with them. (Lesley: Wow) Because the nerve pain can be so bad. And there's different specific nerve conditions that we don't need to talk about. But I think, you know, you could have fallen and broken your coccyx at some point. If you fail. You know, if you fell snowboarding, for example, and hit your bum. (Lesley: Yeah) You could have a pelvic floor because you've had a little trauma. (LEsley: Yeah) You know, to that if you've you know, if you've ridden a bike, a lot male or female, that repetitive strain of sitting in the saddle ...

Lesley Logan  

So I'm like picturing like things the years where people were going to the spin class five days a week for 45 minutes.

Claire Sparrow  

Oh, my goodness, yeah. And there's the load is going through the pelvis, not really through the feet. So yeah, it's that huge, huge. People who sit a lot for work. So people who take driving jobs, particularly because often the alignment of the seats can put a lot of pressure on. So it really isn't just women that have had children. (Lesley: Yeah) Men, so a good kind of indicator that your pelvic floor is maybe not doing as well as it could be. It's not responsive, as responsive as it could be. If you're a male, and you're up in the night for a wee. That's not normal.

Oh, that's interesting.

So that is definitely something that needs to be addressed. Men should be getting their prostate checked as a number one, and then everything's okay there, then you need to be looking at the function of your pelvic floor. Usually with men, they've got much more of that posterior pelvic position even than, than women's do so like a tucked under, we call it tucky bottom or ducky bottom. (Lesley and Claire laughs)

Lesley Logan  

I always would tell my clients, like, "You're gonna have an old man." But like, "What does that mean?" I'm like, "Where it's like it's just gone." (Claire: What? What's wrong? Yeah.) Oh, wow. This is, you know, it's so fascinating to me that hearing this is like, if you're listening, some of you or someone you know, has a pelvic floor issue. (Claire: For sure.) Like, that's basically how many people this is. And we are so concerned with what we look like (Claire: Oh yeah) that like we are not paying attention to making sure that from the inside out, we are supporting our functions so that we can be out there engaging with people in a way that is less self conscious. Like all I hear about when I, when I hear any kind of pelvic floor, I just think there has got to be so much mind, focus on what will happen if that you're not even present at the moment with the people that you love. So therefore, you can't even see an opportunity to say, "Hey, I want to sign up for that, or I'd be perfect for this role." Like in this the reason I love to talk about women's health and obviously, this affects men too. But it's like, too often I see health issues are the keeping people from saying, "Hi, I'm ready for this."

Claire Sparrow  

For sure. And women are all ready. We know that women are not stepping up in the same way as men are stepping up. I think it's something like, you know, a woman or look at the the job description. And if they they would have to be 100% (Lesley: Yeah) on that job description. (Lesley: Yeah) Where's the man go, "Yeah, I'm about 65% there. I'm totally up for this." (Lesley: Yeah) And I think it plays into that, you know, we're already not as inclined to step up and shine. And then we add this into the mix, where there are people telling us were weak, we should accept it, because we had children. It's just because of your age, there is nothing that can be done. You, the only answer is to do traditional exercises. (Lesley: Yeah) What do you expect you had, you know, three children, whatever it is, but we were not being told what possible. You know, I say that because I was literally told, well, this is just to be expected.

Lesley Logan  

I mean, and that's like that I keep quoting just move along, because we had her on early earlier this year to talk about women's health. And she said just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal. (Claire: No) And like, the the anger that gets inside me were like, oh, well, you had three children. As if you're like, you know, what I'm signing myself up for like, like, this is ... not a trade off.

Claire Sparrow  

No, no. I need one of my clients. And I think this is it's driven my mission even further recently to set some bigger goals, because one of my clients said to me, you know, you're the voice of hope. And I, it's in that moment that I realized that it's actually more than the the movement that I've created to teach people and all of the Pilates piece of it, it's actually getting out there in the world so that women know that there is something that they can do, because there are so many strong voices out there saying, you know, just accept it. And it's just not.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think I mean, I think that's one of the things I mean I love so much about you. But like one of the things that that makes me want to continue to see what you're up to is you do bring hope, because I think about all the women and how you can help them because you, if you're in will, we'll take a brief moment of a break to find how you can help, how you can be helped by Claire without being in the UK. But the work you're doing goes beyond just the people in your community. And it is even just us having this conversation. You all like I'm gonna say it right now, you have to be we have got to be talking to women about these things. Because we need to make sure it is actually normal to say, you know, I actually don't go on a trampoline, like we actually sit because this is why so that people can go, "Oh, hey, I actually have so that's not let me help you with that," you know. (Claire: Yeah) Like, we just I know that's such a simple way to distill it down to but we're one of a woman who's in the Pilates industry as well, we were talking about, like, I'm not menopausal yet. But I feel like it's probably going to be earlier for me than then most. And she was like, "Here's all the things that I wish I had known to do at 40. Because if I had started then I would be in a better place." And I was like, "Oh, well thank you for my handbook. So I can go prepare myself for this race."

Claire Sparrow  

Correct. And I think, you know, when it comes to pelvic health, we need to be educating young. It's why you know, I'm teaching my boys they know so that when they have women in their life, whoever that might be, they are able to help support and inform them. And you know, I give specific strategies to the women that I work with about how they can have conversations with their young children with their girls so that we are making the effort to educate sooner rather than later we have to preempt (Lesley: Yeah) you know, and prepare.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Okay, well, we're gonna take a brief break and then find out where people can find you, follow you, work with you.

Claire, I mean, we could talk about this for hours I feel like and you, and you have plenty of resources for that. So where can people find you, follow you? Can they work with you? Can they study with you? What what do you have to offer?

Claire Sparrow  

Sure. So my method is whole body pelvic health and that is where you will find me. It's wholebodypelvichealth.co.uk. I said to Brad recently, I'm really proud, I thought hard about whether I was going to be com or .co.uk and I'm really proud to be .co.uk. So you can find me at wholebodypelvichealth.co.uk. I'm also on Instagram, but I'm just me on Instagram. So it's @claireparrowpilates on Instagram, and I do a lot of videos there. You can also find me on YouTube. And that is Clear Spiral Pilates as well. And I do have loads of free resources there. My online course is at the website. So I have a whole massive membership course, where we lead you from understanding the anatomy piece, all the way to the classes, every class you will need. And within the course, we have a women's health physiotherapist who leads you through if you have a birth injury, how to self treat your birth injury. So we've got absolutely everything in there. And then the membership piece means that you have me to ask questions at any time in our closed Facebook group.

Lesley Logan  

Amazing. This is very exciting, y'all. Please check those things out and follow Claire, make sure you hear, you share whatever takeaways you have by tagging her and the @be_it_pod. We'd love to hear how this is helping you or the women in your life or the men in your life who maybe are getting up in the middle of night. Before I let you go BE IT action items. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps we can take to be it till we see it.

Claire Sparrow  

Okay, so the first thing is to talk about it. I truly believe that healing begins by talking and talking about how you're feeling about your pelvic health, we need to open up that conversation. Talk to anybody who will listen and get the conversation going. The second thing is, could we just let it go? Some of the basic things that you can do without even coming to do class or anything with me is if you know that you have a dysfunction, so maybe you've been told that you have a prolapse, that automatic response to squeeze pooling, we'll get into that fear mode that actually isn't helping you. So if you could just let it go, then you will begin to heal just by letting it go. And the next thing I would say is to breathe, can you breathe down there. Often I see with women that the pooling in prevents the breath from reaching the pelvic floor. And because your pelvic floor works in direct correlation with your breathing diaphragm, they need to be able to talk to each other and if we pulled in, they can't talk. So once you've let it go, you need to start focusing on your breath. Let the bones of your pelvis actually move when you breathe and that will work wonders for you.

Lesley Logan  

Oh my gosh, I found myself like making sure I was breathing all the way down there. Like, "Am I, am I, am I breathing all the way down there."

Claire Sparrow  

Yeah. Especially into the pubic bone because a lot of people work a lot through their their abs and the lower abdominal muscles we've entered the pelvic floor and so if you've pulled in locks down those abdominal muscles then that can stop the breath down there.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Oh my gosh Claire. I adore you and I'm so grateful that you are on this planet and and out there sharing your work. It's just so beautiful to see and I know that you are so many lives are going to be touched because of what you're doing. Thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for listening. Again, please tag the @be_it_pod, tag @clairesparrowpilates with your takeaways. Share this episode with a friend and for those of you who are like, "I don't understand how to tag." Then please just text this episode. You can even just like screenshot it but there is a little way on whatever device you're listening to, to actually just share it and you can text and that is not not only does that help the podcast but it actually is going to help women all over this world because it goes back to that BE IT action item that I was talking about it. Thank you again and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

 It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli. 

Lesley Logan  

 Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell  

 Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can. 

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

What or who are the villains in your life keeping you from the things that are meant for you? This episode holds everything from overcoming those villains, changing nervousness to confidence, and the best tips for road trips. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How to survive a long road trip 
• Take a bet on yourself 
• How to connect past dots to move forward 
• The ebbs and flows of confidence is normal 
• The ultimate way you achieve confidence 
• How to change nervousness to confidence
• Three steps to overcoming you villains 

Episode References/Links:

• Join the Pilates popup tour!
• Come to Cambodia!
• Find out more about Agency! 
• Educated By Tara Westover
• Overcome Your Villains by Heather Monahan

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Use this link to get your Toe Sox!

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co hosts in life, Brad and I want to dig into the influential convo I had with Heather Monahan in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to the interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Honestly, you should listen to her. (Brad: Yeah) She is written two books. She has been talking this talk and walking this walk for a long time. And if anyone's been be it till she sees it, she's one of those examples and if you've been listening to pod for a long time, you will remember many moons ago I said, I want to have Heather Monahan on this show. Boom, I have Heather Monahan on this show. (Brad: Love it.) I'm so proud of that.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. I do remember she was on the wish list.

Lesley Logan  

She was on the wish list.

Brad Crowell  

Because of a quote that she said.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. She said, "Don't take a no from anyone who ... isn't able to give you a yes."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And I remember we had a whole conversation about that. You were really excited when you heard that.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So that hey, y'all what that means is, if someone's assistant tells you, no, they're telling you no, because I have an assistant most people know, because the person said, "I don't want to do any of these things." But that doesn't mean they don't want to ever do any of those things. They just want to make sure that like most of them don't get through. But if you find the third door, another person I want to have on the show, someone can put that person down the wish list. There's a third door and that's how you get the yes from an actual person and give you the yes, boom. Anyways, hello from Texas. We are on the road this week, officially. And we are if you're listening this like today, when this drops, we have two classes in Frisco, and we which is like just North of Dallas. It's a really cool area of Dallas at air, actually. And I've been there many times and I love it. In fact, I was just there last week, just so then we're gonna go Houston. (Brad: Tomorrow) Yep. I've actually never been to Houston. So I'm really excited about this.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I've only driven through. I've never been there to be there.

Lesley Logan  

Do we call them Houstonians? I don't know. Well, tell me.

Brad Crowell  

I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with the ... I don't know on that one.

Lesley Logan  

I don't know about that one. But you know, I'm sure that they're Texas. They'll tell us. Then we had to Nashville. And then it's Atlanta, then Greensboro, North Carolina, and then Cleveland and then St. Louis. And then a little hang sesh with food and Denver. (Brad: Yeah.) So Denver peeps, you need to reach out and let us know if you want in on an info. Because there's no way to buy a ticket for that situation.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And we may have some spots left on this tour here. So if you wanted to come, hang and have a class, go to onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And if there are no space, spaces left, definitely let our team know, because you never know what happens with people. (Brad: It's true.) We can like ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, keep us posted. Because also too, there's a chance we may add additional classes if we get enough interest. So make sure you reach out.

Lesley Logan  

And well, you can also just show up. And buy flashcards if you want to buy that as a gift for yourself. (Brad: Yeah, come meet us. Come say, hi.) You could say hi to the dogs, they will be at these events, probably hanging out in the van. But we'll bring them out for people who are dog lovers. And don't forget, if you are on the waitlist for Cambodia for 2023, you have emails in your inbox. (Brad: Oh yeah.) And I know you're thinking, "Oh, I can wait till ..." Like it's fine. It's like 10 9 11 months away. So here's the deal, we actually go public with this offer. And very soon, and that means we're not holding a spot for you. We're not saving it for you. So right now the perk of being on the waitlist is that you hear about it early, and you get first dibs and it could sell out just by the waitlist. So make sure you snag your spot if that's what you're wanting to do. Especially before the price goes up. And before other people hear about it, you go to lesleylogan.co/retreat. And then one more thing that's very important we want to make sure no one misses out on this. It's like key to me. And it's something I actually preach on when we are coaching people on raising their rates. But we are raising the Agency rate on January 1st. (Brad: That's right. Yeah.) So if you've ever, ever been like, "Oh, someday I'm gonna do that." Now is the time because it will never be the price that it is right now. (Brad: That's true.) And here's the deal. We, when you join Agency, whatever rate you join in it, is the rate you get to keep (Brad: Yeah) for as long as you're an Agency member. So you'd be like think about the people been there for five years. Yeah. So don't wait till next year because think about what you could have done in this last year. If you've wondered like what Agency members have done in the past year. Let me just tell you, we've had members open new studios. We've had several open studios, by the way, actually, (Brad: Yeah) at this point in the year. I think we're at six studios this year that people have opened. (Brad: Yeah) You like, "I don't want to open a studio. I just want it for myself." Yeah, we have hundreds of people doing it, too. One of our members her her social media following has quadrupled in size, she's had like 1000s, like 10s of 1000s in one month, and her online platform has had multiple people buy. So like, whether or not you wanna work for yourself, you want to open a studio, you want to run multiple studios. We got people for you. We got Erika Quests, we got Roxy Menzies, we got Alex Street. Everyone has had a podcast here.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. At the end of last year, one of our members hosted an international Pilates festival. (Lesley: Yeah) You know with so many things that have happened inside of Agency and ...

Lesley Logan  

Two of our, two of our pro members have teamed up to lead our mentorship together. (Brad: Yeah) They would never have met, like and trust each other in that way, if they had not had their Agency experience over these years ...

Brad Crowell  

People have launched teacher training programs, they've hired teachers, they've, you know, brought in new clients. There's just all the things and we want that for you. Our mission is more bodies doing Pilates. And when we empower you to grow your business, it serves what what we're trying to do as well. And we also have a lot of fun, and it takes away a lot of that anxiety.

Lesley Logan  

It's so fun. In Fridays, especially because it's back fuck yeah Friday. It's always wins all the time. And even people are begrudgingly doing a win because they needed a moment before. Like it's always a win. So anyways, you if you want to book a exploratory call to see if Agency is right for you, then where do they go, Brad?

Brad Crowell  

Just go to, DM us either, DM us on the pod or you can reach out through the Profitable Pilates website, just go to the contact page and reach out and we will happily set up a call and you'll probably talk to me.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So but again, that starts January 1st, please don't call me on January 2nd, go, "Oh gosh, can I have the old rate?" You can't actually and here's why I won't let you do that in your business. And so I can't, I have to ... operate in that integrity so that I can help you operate in your integrity. So anyways, we like to give that announcement. And that is happening in January 1st.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Before we move on that we had an audience question. They said that the question was, hey LL, you said last year that you drove 7000 miles on your tour? And obviously we're on a tour right now. How the heck do you pass all that time while you're driving? I just couldn't imagine being in the car that long myself.

Lesley Logan  

I think people think that like you and I are just like chit chatting like 10 hours a day. You know what I mean? I think people are thinking about like the time you're in a van with other people and like, oh my God, so long on time.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Or they're imagining Chevy Chase is, you know, like family vacations (Lesley: Yes) something like that.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. So because it is 2022. And it's been, you know, the 20 the 2000s for quite some time. There's lots of ways you can like we are in the van. But we're often listen to different podcasts or different books. (Brad: Yeah) We actually, probably we do the exact same thing that we do now. We have coffee together. We have meals together. But ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. I take long phone calls.

Lesley Logan  

I hate that so much. But he has to and I won't do them. So it's fine.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I do a lot of like, work with our team. And the phone calls keep me up, like, focused and driving and, you know, helps me stay driving on the road. And like ... (Lesley: It is true, especially at night.) You want my mind to wander.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I love my mind to be able to wander like so when he's driving. He's really on calls. When I'm driving, I am listening often to books that I want to evaluate for being podcast guests, or for being part of the book club for Agency members who want to be in a book club and read business books, or just things that are I'm curious about for my own self development. So I listened to a lot of that, of course, I listened to some my favorite pod. It's also a great time to like reevaluate my pods. So because it's a long drive, what I'll do is I'll like download a bunch of podcasts. I'm thinking of being on the regular, and I'll let them I'll see if I listened to them. Or if I'm like, "No, actually, I'm not into this at all." Because it's like, it can happen in so many consecutive episodes so I can I can get a lot done. So we...

Brad Crowell  

I mean also too, it's not like we're I mean except for 2020 where we plowed through the drive in ...

Lesley Logan  

We did it in two and a half days each way.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah, it was it was insane. Like two three days to get there but two and a half days to come back. We did the whole drive from Philadelphia till Vegas in 55 hours. (Lesley: Yeah) And so it literally we just did not stop we were driving for like 14 hours a day and then we would sleep and I would drive late and then we would overlap our sleep she would get up at seven and keep driving. I mean, that was that was brutal. Not gonna lie. That one was not my ...

Lesley Logan  

It wasn't on a fun trip. (Brad: my preference but) We will stop it a lot of like, we'll go oh, "What's that thing?" And what like pullover ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah we try to include some spontaneity. We also schedule in like, "Hey dinner with friends we only get to see once a year." Or lunch or stop at a dog park, we try to take the dogs to the dog parks literally every day. (Lesley: Yeah) Just drive around in different dog parks.

Lesley Logan  

Well, especially because they're like they're literally in the car not doing very much at all. (Brad: Yeah) And so we take and we try to find a dog park and then you'll toss a ball for them and then I'll try to get August to chase me it's not he does not exercise. (Brad: Not so much.) But I'll work out in the dog park so like I'm the one with the kettlebell swings, if you see someone doing a workout in a dog park, Hi, it's me. Somewhere between here and Philly all the way back. But I think like it is correct, I think a lot of people think we're just doing like a natural and put things and we're just like sitting like looking out the window longingly. Like when does Colorado ever end? And is this Kansas? Or is this Colorado? Like, no, we, we there's we're there's still things that we're doing and we're quite creative people. (Brad: Yeah.) So our minds are always producing stuff.

Brad Crowell  

I love finding like fun little coffee shops and restaurants. So we spend time trying to find new new places to explore.

Lesley Logan  

So here here's so if you listen to the Rolf Potts episode, you heard how I talked about when we traveled we'll looks like gluten free options. (Brad: Sure.) When we're on the road, searching for oat milk, or gleif gluten free options will absolutely 1,000% help you find a locally owned business. (Brad: Yeah.) Even in these weird places were like, "No way LL did you find that there?" Yeah, I did. We found we found ... (Brad: ... we are in Texas.) No, we found that vegan place in South Carolina. Remember, we were in South Carolina. We were in guests with South Carolina. Remember we're like went to that ... (Brad: Oh yes.) It was, I don't know the name of the town but like I'm not ... I'm not ... and Brad so we're gonna have lunch there. I was like, "No, no way."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, it was near outside the ... state park.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, we have an incredible and I was like ... (Brad: We found a food truck one time.) A vegan food truck (Brad: Yeah) that was so unbelievable, I was actually sad how far away it was because I would have ordered again. And I was like, "Dude, more food truck somewhere else?" No, they didn't. But so use your like, unique thing you're interested in to find fun things to do a long road trips. We also love to shop at vintage stores.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, that's fun, too. (Lesley: And) we try to go like, I think some of the craziest vintage stores we've been at or you know, like thrift shop slash vintage shops where in Texas. (Lesley: Oh yeah.) Like crazy stuff. You know like, "Wow, like how long has it been since anyone has picked this up and dusted it off?" Like ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, there's some funny things there. I also got like, shout out to downtown Tucson. (Brad: Yeah that's fun.) You have some cool ass shit. I've really loved it.

Brad Crowell  

There's like, there's no... there's like one street of cute funky like local (Lesley: Yeah) and all the things ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, there's (Brad: shops. Yeah.) Anyways, we are not, don't cry for us.

Brad Crowell  

Oh another thing we love to do is national parks.

Lesley Logan  

We do love a national park. (Brad: Yeah) We really really do.

Brad Crowell  

This trip we, well, we've already driven through Saguaro National Park in Arizona.

Lesley Logan  

We did that. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. We don't know which parks we're doing this trip. But I will say so just to go back to your to your question. Thank you for asking it. Trips don't have to be like about the destination. It is that cliche. It's the journey. It really is a journey. Like (Brad: Yeah, has to be.) I remember ...

Brad Crowell  

7000 miles is a lot of miles.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. I I remember more about like, the things we do along the way, then oftentimes the thing we do when we get there best because we're wherever we're going. It's often like if we do the same thing every year sounds like that. But like I really do find it fun to find random coffee shops. And then sometimes we go the same route. So we're like, (Brad: Yeah, yeah.) "Oh, there's that place we can go." (Brad: Oh there's the shop we run at last time.) Yeah, that was so great and so it's it's so fun to do. But don't be afraid to like branch out, get off the beaten path. And then and then it is then when I do let my mind wander. It's not like I've been looking at this field for seven hours are still here, (Brad: Kansas) like fuck (Brad: Nebraska) But I've listened to some amazing books on tape. I mean, like just some really epic ones. If you're wondering what are some great roadtrip books to listen to Educated if you haven't yet listened to that and by Tara Westover. (Brad: Yeah) Amazing. I started with Brad trying to take a nap. And then I had to rewind so he could take it and then we literally wanted to finish the book. And so we were with your family like, oh, they come in in the car with us. We're taking our own car. We're taking our own car. Turn it on. So that one is so uniquely interesting.

Brad Crowell  

We also do like introspection, like reflection on the year, every drive, every drive and we we talk about like, what can we you know do to better serve our members that are an OPC and an Agency.

Lesley Logan  

We talked about a lot of ideas, we get rid a lot of ideas. (Brad: Yeah) We debate about ideas. Like, you'd be surprised how fast the day goes, even though you're just like sitting around like it really does go fast. So anyways, if you need roadtrip books, I'm ha... reached out to the @be_it_pod. We'll put it in another solo episode, but ...

Brad Crowell  

And go listen to Rolf Potts (Lesley: Yes) episode, which was actually very recently it was (Lesley: very recently at the time ...) episode 151.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. So go listen to that. And then, you know, if you are driving to your destination, try not to like drive. "Uhh i have to drive." What can be fun about the drive? And try to find something like, I remember one of the drives we're gonna do, we're gonna stop at a crystal place, like a ground where you could like dig up your own crystals. (Brad: Oh yeah) You know what I mean? Like, or, like find something fun along the way. I don't care if it's like the biggest haystack or the biggest corn maze I would never do that. But like nothing would give me more anxiety than being in one of those. But um, but try to like find something unique along the way, the internet is amazing y'all you can literally put in like things that no one would think to do in X place and they'll somebody from like eatery or you know, whatever, weird, whatever we are ...(Brad: the greatest) the greatest. I mean, like I Googled today, like, best Thanksgiving dinners in Las Vegas, and like I got 17 restaurants to choose from. So like, believe it or not, someone's probably curated something for you to do just look it up.

Brad Crowell  

Love it. 

Okay, now let's talk about Heather Monahan. When her retiring boss's daughter fired her. Heather Monahan began to bet on herself. In the past five years, she has become a best selling author, two times over. The podcast host of Creating Confidence, and was awarded the top 50 keynote speaker of 2022. (Lesley: That's huge.) Yeah, that's pretty crazy. And in 2020, she was top 40 keynote speaker. She does all of this while being an incredible single mom, to her son, and working to empower individuals to use their strengths to achieve success.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I I really, I really enjoy like what she's doing in this world. And I think it's, it's necessary and how cool that she had this career her whole life. And that's one area that she was a top dog in that, like she really was. And then because she was fired, and she couldn't just like, go get the same job somewhere else because of like, whatever those those clauses are, she had to bet on herself. And it allowed her to (Brad: Yeah) like completely switch (Brad: She is a non compete.) Yes, thank you. That's the exact word for it. She was able to like, just try out something completely different and new. And now she's a tough speaker. She's traveling the world. She was on the Dr. Phil show. You know what I mean? Like ... like, come on. So y'all literally like, if you know someone in your life who has been fired, and you probably like, "Oh my God, I can't let that happen that." Like we hear about our parents all the time all the time, like, "Oh, so one so got fired, so and so got laid off." I feel so bad for them. It's the what if it's the best fucking thing that ever happened for their life? (Brad: Yeah) What if it is? It probably is, I mean, we can go back to the last episode, last recap. Your divorce, ... clearly was the best thing that ever happened to you. You wouldn't met me, you would never marry me if you hadn't been through that. So like, I think we all have to, like, take a moment on and when we see someone having a worst experience, like, obviously see them and feel that but then also be there to like, remind them that they're gonna like, they can bet on themselves, just like she did. So one of the things that she I'm going to pre phrase what she said, atually. She said, you don't have to know the entire plan before trying something new. Yeah, that's right. Just keep moving forward with the faith that you'll figure it out because you don't know what you don't know. (Brad: Yeah) And ultimately, you can't connect the dots until you're looking back. So you have to keep moving forward. You know, y'all

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. So I think I think that the idea of you don't know what you don't know. You know, and then that really the it's the reflection on the past that allows you to decide like, you know, you can start to say, "Oh, I'm glad I did this. I'm glad I did that. I'm glad this." You won't know that until you do it.

Lesley Logan  

Well and correct. And you try it out and also like you might not realize what'd you do know? Like you don't know what you don't know. It doesn't have to be like it's not a bad thing. Like, you might not realize you have this like skill or talent like the other day when I like pick up the chopsticks my right hand. I was actually really amazing at it. I didn't know that. (Brad: You did?) Yeah, you were there.

Brad Crowell  

Oh, I didn't realize it was your right hand.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. I was like ... look at me pick up this carpaccio with these with my right hand. I'm lucky to y'all. And I actually like treat chopsticks like, like a fork. So anyways, I think that that whole section that was just talking about is like such a key, a key thing to remind yourself and you haven't seen the episode yet, save it, you can go back to that. Because on your worst day can feel like this is the worst that ever happened to me, it truly can't be the best if you just keep taking the next step forward. And, and trusting that it's okay if you don't know the entire plan. Like when we're coaching people in Agency, like I keep feeling like I take two steps forward. And then one step back. And I'm like, yeah, what if it was to review the dots, so you can take the next few steps forward in the right direction?

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. I think there was another section a part of this year, though, that I thought was interesting was, you know, to move forward with the faith, that you're going to be serving yourself well. Because you will figure it out as you go along. You know, but the idea that you clearly don't know the future, you know, and unless someone has predetermined the path for you, and like shared your career plan, sometimes that might happen, but usually not. You know, what, as you move forward, if you know where you want to get to, along the way, you don't know how will happen to get there. But you know, you kind of have this big future vision down the road. And when you move forward, it's with the intention of getting to that end game, you know, just the bet... in between, you don't really you don't have any idea what's going to happen. So

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And that's okay. (Brad: Yeah) It's, it's actually kind of fun, it's going back to our road trip, like, we know, we're gonna get to Philly. We know we have stops along the way. We don't know which stores we might stop at, or what people we might run into or like, what could happen. And that's what makes it the most fun. That's why we keep doing it. (Brad: Yeah) What did you love?

Brad Crowell  

I really loved when she talked about confidence and that it ebbs and flows. And I thought that was interesting, because, you know, obviously, her podcast is about confidence, her first book is about confidence. And you just associate confidence with certain people. And you never imagined that there, you just think, "Oh, that person is confident." So they're clearly always confident 100% of the time. And she said, "No, that's not that's not how it works." you know. For her specifically, she said she felt super confident in her work in her career, she had spent 20 years climbing, you know, the corporate ladder in the world of radio doing sales. And but she said she didn't feel so confident in her relationships. You know, that afterwards, she could, you know, quit and land on her feet. So there was like, a lot of uncertainty there. And she said, there's not nobody is confident in all situations, there's always self doubt, that self doubt is actually part of the growth process.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think I think it's just being aware of where you feel less confident in your life is more important than were like going, "I'm not confidnent in that." It's like, just the going like thinking about Lena Franklin. Awareness is actually part of enlightenment. And so if you can understand like, "Oh, I'm super confident at work. I'm not confident at relationships." Okay. So you're less confident in relationships. And that means that there's room for growth. You know, what I mean? I feel I feel like it's really easy for us to put a label on ourselves especially around confidence and then therefore we're just not confident there. So we don't work on that there but it's like if you can have that awareness and be okay with your confidence ebbing and flowing, a) you'll be a real human being, people actually like you just like people like Heather she is like the queen of these things. And she's an all this stuff and like she's a likable person. You know, people want to be friends with her, people want to have her around on the things, because she actually is a real human being who is okay with her confidence ebbing and flowing. And understand that some areas she feels stronger than others. And then you ...

Brad Crowell  

Lena's episode was 77, by the way.

Lesley Logan  

77. Oh, what it like that's like a good number for her. Like so anyway, I really enjoyed both of our whole conversation. I thought there's a lot that we can take away from it.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, in in my my personal experience, you know, having been on stage. Confidence was something that was built. (Lesley: I think confident) And definitely I wasn't confident the first time I got on stage.

Lesley Logan  

And so then what you got on stage again? (Brad: Yeah) You got on stage again? (Brad: Yeah) And like we ...

Brad Crowell  

Because I saw myself being a performer. I was like, "I am that person." And in order for me to get to that place where I am that person, I gotta practice, I gotta do it.

Lesley Logan  

Right. If you are a person who is onstage performing, then you have to get on stages and perform. (Brad: Yeah) Like, like, we were just listening on the other day. (Brad: I was just thinking about this.) So we're listening to Chelsea Handler, (Brad: Yeah) and she gives advice. We also listen to Iliza Shlesinger and just in case you're listening because I want you on the show. Hi, I love I love I love listening to the questions I get. I love the ... I really resonate with a lot of their answers. But there was a woman, a person who wanted to become a comedian. (Brad: Yes) And in ...

Brad Crowell  

... she already was a comedian. (Lesley: She already a comedian.) But she had an upcoming gig and she was worried about she was opening for someone and she was like, "How do I gain confidence in this?"

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, because where they live, there's like one Comedy Club and like, "I've got two weeks to get my confidence up." (Brad: Right.) And Chelsea was like, okay, well, normally, I'd say like, go get on every stage, you can. But there's one stage to be on, and you're about to be on it. So you need to go to the grocery store and the park and just do your set in front of people. It's like ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. She said, "Do it, do, do your set in front of your parents."

Lesley Logan  

Do you ... Yeah. Do you set like

Brad Crowell  

And she said, "Well, I don't think they'll appreciate my humor." And the response was perfect. All the more reason you should do it in front of your parents.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. Cuz that will create confidence, because you'll have done in front of people who don't appreciate it and like, so the reality is, is that confidence comes from putting yourself in a situation where you feel less confident. And then following through with the thing that you said you were going to do. (Brad: Yeah) End of story if (Brad: Yeah) you don't feel like you're a runner, you have to go, you have to say, "I'm gonna go for a run for one block." And then you run one block. And guess what, you just dropped money in your confidence bucket of running, and I'm a runner. And so yeah, you didn't run your marathon. But we're not working to that confidence, yet. We're just actually trying to show up for the thing we said we're gonna do and do the thing.

Brad Crowell  

And even even with this ebbing and flowing that she was talking about, nobody's confident in all situations. I had been on stage for 10 years, when I got invited to a birthday party of a dear friend of mine, and I decided to write a song and perform it on stage, but solo. (Lesley: Oh) And my whole career had been with the band. And in the band, I wasn't singing. I mean, I was singing, but it wasn't the lead person. I was like, second, and that was, you know, that was fine. I, but I had been on stage like, put me on stage with a group of people anytime. And I'm like, "I'm in. It's totally okay." But put me on stage alone. And I was like, whoa. And I was like, really feeling that one. I was not confident.

Lesley Logan  

You know what, that's so funny. Because remember when we were at Momentum Fest, and it was a first year of Momentum Fest, and I had like 80 plus people in this room. And it was pre pandemic. So it was like, had a break from teaching and all. And there's like my peers in the front row. And there's people like who hire me for things in the front row. And then there's all these people who were so excited to be in that room. And you were miking me up and I was like, "Is this thing on?" You're like, "No." And I said, "I'm really, like, I'm really nervous." (Brad: Yeah) And he's like you said, "Why? What is, this is what you do all the time." And it's so funny. I think sometimes we forget that we we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, which then makes us doubt ourselves, even in situations where we would normally be confident. And (Brad: Sure) so I think if you're finding your competence ebbing and flowing in areas where you normally are confident, it's just time to take a look back and it probably means you really care about that particular moment. (Brad: Right) And then look back at the wins you've had in other moments like it and you can draw on that confidence.

Brad Crowell  

It goes back to your favorite takeaway, where ultimately you can't connect the dots until you're looking back.

Lesley Logan  

I know I just connected a bunch.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. I love it. All right, so finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Heather Monahan?

Lesley Logan  

Well, she had a three step process and it's from her recent book, so you all go get Overcome Your Villains. Especially if you like, feel like you have a villain in your life. You gotta you gotta read this book. And it's called B A K.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, she called it BAK.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, BAK. So it is. Number one, what is your belief? Oh, did we talk about beliefs last week. We did. Sorry, you don't get to get over this. What is your belief? Number two, immediately take action. So for example, when she was fired, she immediately posted on social media," I've just been fired."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And then let's do all three. So what is your belief, immediately take action and then what is the knowledge you surround yourself with is number three.

Lesley Logan  

Okay. (Brad: Yeah) So you got all three everyone, what is your belief? Immediately take action. And then what is your knowledge? So belief, action, knowledge. Okay, so she had been fired. And and so going, "Oh I've been fired. Nobody likes me. What am I gonna do?" She actually was like, "Hey, everyone, if I've ever helped you in any way, I need to hear from you now."

Brad Crowell  

She posted that on social media, "Hi, I've been fired," period. Wow, that takes guts, right. Like that talk about confidence right there. And like just taking action. Because if I've ever helped you in any way, I need to hear from you now, when she when she posted that someone that she had helped, reached out to her and invited her to go on the Elvis Duran show. And that changed her life.

Lesley Logan  

Change her life. And also like, can we just go back to betting on yourself? So be it till you see it like she bet on herself. She didn't know what's going to happen. But she acted as if like, I'm gonna bet on myself. And if I bet on myself, I'm gonna put this thing out there that I'm only going to get great things. And something good is going to come from this, like, you know what I mean? Like, I love that. So then and then what knowledge can you surround yourself with? So don't just consume information from randos. We've talked about this before y'all on the podcast. Don't ask your your Uncle Joe, information, like advice around something that they're not knowledgeable in. (Brad: Right) And, and I've even mentioned this on one of the podcasts like, make sure you're really clear on whose opinions of you matter. Because in our family, we love them so much. And many of them listening to this, hi guys. But some people like it's not that I don't care about what they have to say about me, but they don't actually understand what we do want on a day to day basis. And so some of the things that they say, come from fear and worry (Brad: Yeah) around us. It's not, it's not that they don't actually want us to succeed. It's not about holding us back, but they're worried for us. So then they share that fear. And then (Brad: Right and that) it's knowledge I didn't need right now. You know.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I mean, I think also it's like, you know, you, you know, why would you ask a golfer about to running on a track? You know, why would you ask someone who's had a, you know, job for their whole career about being an entrepreneur, like, you know, it's, it seems obvious when you say it that way, like you're like, well, duh, wouldn't, they're not a professional swimmer. And I'm trying to be in the Olympics.

Lesley Logan  

But you do it all the time. (Brad: But we do it all the time.) You have that friend that you've kept too long. You kept them way too long. Ladies, we keep our friends too long. I don't understand that. And then they say something. And then if you really took a step back, you go, "I know they always say mean things to me." Then why are you like actually using their opinion to weigh in on the things that you're doing? I'm asking, it's not a rhetorical question. You need to answer out loud. I can't hear you. But you can hear you. Because it all has an impact on your life.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, totally does. So anyway, the three step BAK process, beliefs, action, and knowledge. What is your belief, take immediate action and then three was the knowledge that you surround yourself with. I thought those made a whole lot of sense.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, easily, easily actionable (Brad: Yeah) actions. You know how I love that. So you guys get her books. (Brad: Yeah, check those out.) And listen to her podcast.

Brad Crowell  

And thanks for joining us today.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, really. We are so happy that you're here. (Brad: Yeah) And thank you all. Y'all know, we have some of the most reviews of any podcasts in our age, (Brad: Yeah) not our age, like personally, but the age of the podcast. Like it's insane. So we couldn't have done that without you ...

Brad Crowell  

No ... You know, we need each and every one of you. Thank you.

Lesley Logan  

And thank you for sharing this with your friends. I know sometimes we were like, I actually heard you say, tag a friend. How do I do that? That's a great question. So if you don't know how to tag a friend and you want to know how to tag a friend, will you DM me on the platform you're trying to tag a friend? What does that mean? It means like, letting that person know that this is for them. (Brad: DM means direct message.) And DM means direct message. So if you will find the Be It pod on the platform, you like to use that's Facebook (Brad: Oh, actually we ...) TikTok or Instagram.

Brad Crowell  

We set up an email, you can email us now (Lesley: Oh) at [email protected]

Lesley Logan  

Check that out, (Brad: Yeah) [email protected]. So so tell us which platform you are wanting to share or tag a friend. And also tell us which platform you listen to your podcasts on. Is it YouTube? Is it Spotify? Is it Amazon, but Amazon, yeah you can listen to Amazon. Is it Apple? Is it Google Play? Is it 17 other options out there? There's so many we're on every single thing. But if you do that we have someone who will help you, literally tell you how to do it. So because we want we know that you actually want to share them. So we want to help you do that. We just need to know a couple of details. And thank you for doing that. (Brad: Yeah) Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan  

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network.  

Brad Crowell  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli.  

Lesley Logan  

 Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.  

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can. 

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

It’s the million-dollar question, "How do you do it all"? How do you start a business, focus on your family, and have the confidence to keep going after the “no”? Heather Monahan joins the podcast today to share her three-step process for taking action, working through the ebbs and flows that come, and finding success through resilience. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Perfection is BS, confidence is inconsistent.
• The key to taking messy action and going for things.
• How to find the imperfect balance as a working mom. 
• How you choose to see getting noes.
• No matter what you are doing in life, you are always selling something. 
• The importance of building a relationship with your audience.
• Letting the possibility lead you to your next thing.
• How doors being opening when you add value.
• The three-step process for action 

Episode References/Links:

• Heather Monahan Website
• Creating Confidence podcast
• Overcome Your Villains Book
• Confidence Creator Book

Guest Bio:

Heather Monahan is a best-selling author X2, Top 50 Keynote Speaker in the World 2022, Podcast Host of Creating Confidence, TedX speaker and has most recently been appointed to the Board of Directors of Healthlynked Corp. Having successfully climbed the corporate ladder for nearly 20 years, Heather Monahan is one of the few women to break the glass ceiling and claim her spot in the C-suite.

As a Chief Revenue Officer in Media, Heather Monahan is a Glass Ceiling Award winner, named one of the most Influential Women in Radio in 2017, Thrive Global named her a Limit Breaking Female Founder in 2018 and in 2021 Girls Club named her the Thought Leader of the Year.

Heather’s book Confidence Creator shot to #1 on Amazon’s Business Biographies and Business Motivation lists the first week it debuted on Amazon. Forbes named Confidence Creator one of the 5 must have books for women in business in 2021.

Heather’s show, Creating Confidence, debuted on the Top 200 shows on Apple podcast. Her guests include Sara Blakely, Gary Vaynerchuck, Ryan Serhant, Kaitlyn Bristowe among many other noteworthy celebrities and entrepreneurs.

Heather was named one of the Top 40 Female Keynote Speakers in 2020 and Top 50 Keynote Speakers for 2022 by Real Leaders. Her TedX talk was promoted to TED and translated into 6 languages. Harper Collins Leadership published her new book Overcome Your Villains in November 2021.

Heather’s has been featured in USA Today, CNN, Forbes, Fast Company, Gary V’s Audio Experience and The Steve Harvey Show. Heather and her son Dylan reside in Miami.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

All right, Be It babe. I'm, ooh, I can't believe it. I can't believe it actually. I've been wanting to have this woman on this podcast for a really long time. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you've actually heard me mention, "I'm gonna have Heather Monahan on the show. So here she is Heather Monahan. She is the podcast host of Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. She is an author, you'll hear about those books as we get to talking. And she really is a wealth of knowledge. And for my mommas out there, I really loved how she answered how to balance like being a mom and like, doing all these amazing things. So I can't wait for you to dive into this interview with her and hear these things. And you know, I love that action item. I love the BE IT action item, but I actually do love these and I think they'll be really easy for you to remember and to use in your life and then as always, please make sure you tag Heather Monahan and us, so our guests and us so that we can know what your takeaways are, what you're working on how you're being it till you see it. So, here is Heather Monahan.

All right, Be It babe. I'm really stoked about this. I heard this woman's voice through Cathy Heller's podcast while I was driving through the desert and my phone was dying. And I did not actually have directions to the hotel I was going but I was like, I cannot turn this phone off because it's loving all of her words. And the quote, the words she said that stuck with me. I repeated over and over again were, "Don't take a no from someone who can't give you a yes." And I was like, "Who is this woman? I'm going to pull over and I'm going to literally download everything she has." And I have been enjoying listening to her. And I'm so excited to have her on. Heather Monahan, thank you so much for being here. Please tell everyone who you are and what you're up to these days.

Heather Monahan  

Sure, and thanks for having me. So my background is in sales and sales leadership. I was in the media industry for over 20 years. And three weeks after I was named one of the most influential women in radio. I was fired when the CEO I worked for became ill and elevated his daughter to replace him. That was now five years ago. So I took that opportunity to write and self publish my first book Confidence Creator. And then I Googled how do you sell books. And that led me to my speaking career, which I was just named Top 50 Keynote Speaker in the World for 2022, which was super exciting. And then last year, I wrote my second book, Overcome Your Villains with HarperCollins leadership, which came out in November. And in 2019, I launched my podcast, Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan.

Lesley Logan  

I mean, so many amazing things. And I think some people are listening going, "Okay, how did you do all that?" Because it's like five years is actually not that long a time. But I just want to highlight look what you can do in five years. Like, look at all those things. So, you know, you had this amazing career, obviously, award winning career, and then it just stopped short. What was, did you have this inkling that someday you would do something different? Did you always think you'd be a keynote speaker in this confidence realm, like what was kind of how did you get there?

Heather Monahan  

No, I had no idea. You know, so often in life, we're told, "Hey, this is what you're good at, because you're showing up and doing a good job." So I just, you know, I was always told I was great in sales. I was great in sales leadership. I just thought that's what I was destined to do. The next potential move for me would be to take the CEO position, which I pitched myself for many times, and I figured I'll probably run this company or I'll run a competitor to this company that sort of in the back of my mind what I thought would those logical next steps where. I never thought about that idea of, "Oh, what if I just blow up everything that I've been doing and completely reinvent myself?" No, I was, you know, walking that path, you know, that corporate America path, like, what's the next move up, next move up. And I had been doing that for over 20 years. So it just, it never even crossed my mind that I would be doing what I'm actually doing today, never came to me.

Lesley Logan  

So, you know, day after you're fired, you're trying to figure out what to do next. Were you looking for jobs in the corporate world? Or did you think now I'm going to, now's the time, I'm gonna just go see where the world takes me. I'm thinking about this, because so many people will find themselves either they found themselves during that way in 2020, when the world just stopped. And, and now the world is back. And I think a lot of people are going back to what felt safe. And I'm just wondering how you got out of that safety net.

Heather Monahan  

Well, I was pushed, right, because number one, I was fired. But number two, what a lot of people don't realize is I had a non compete. So even though I was fired, I had to leave the industry that I had 20 plus years expertise in. So for 18 months, I could not compete in the media advertising sales arena. If I wanted to be a sales leader somewhere or Chief Revenue Officer, I'd have to go to the aviation business or the hotel bus... something that I knew nothing about. Right. So I'd have to start over as a beginner. And that was a legally bound contract. Right? So that was something I had to honor. And, for me, I just thought to myself, okay, if I'm gonna go start over as a rookie and a beginner somewhere, which that were, that's my options at this point, right? I've got to start over somewhere brand new, not knowing what I'm doing. I thought, well, I might as well roll the dice on me first, and see how that pans out and see what that looks like, you know, I have a little bit of runway, I had saved some money. And I just thought, "Okay, if I, if I'm going to do this in and start over, you know, from scratch, why don't I try just to double down on me and see what happens." But first, it was just like this kind of out of left field idea and possibility of what if, and let's see, let's see where it takes me.

Lesley Logan  

I actually really love that. I, I resonate so much with like, doubling down on yourself. And I think if you can't bet on you, then like, really have not a lot of people to bet on ... And I think a lot of people and said bet on others. Was that something that you always knew that you could bet on yourself? Or what were the signs that you kind of knew that? Or was that how you're raised?

Heather Monahan  

You know, I believe that confidence is something that ebbs and flows, changes in different situations. So when you ask me that question, you know, you're what you're basically saying to me is, you know, did I always find that confidence from within. That's what I'm hearing you say. For me, no, there were times I did find it. Right. So I had found a lot of success in business at a very early age in my early 20s. And so I felt very confident about myself in work, in media, in sales leadership, I knew I was really good at that. So I truly felt confident when I was working. But then in my personal relationships, I didn't feel confident at all, you know, in different scenarios. I wasn't confident at all. So it was sort of this thing that at different times, I would say, oh, yeah, I moved to Saginaw, Michigan to become an equity partner in my early 20s. I felt really secure and confident me, you know, very concerned about the situations outside of me what was going to happen there. Right. So it's just, it's not a static thing that I can point you to say, "Oh, I was raised. You know, I had a very difficult upbringing, I grew up very poor." And that just gave me this amazing gift to be confident for the rest of my life. No, that's, that's not true. And I truly don't believe anyone is confident in every situation. And you know, it's just static for them. I just don't think that's real. Anytime you step into something new. Anytime you reinvent yourself, anytime we enter a new relationship. Right. There's always going to be some level of, "Oh, what if this or you know, self doubt this?" And that's just part of the growth process.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. Thank you for saying that. Oh, my goodness because I, I think so many people think it must be easy for her. Of course, she was fired. And she just like, was able to go off and like, or, you know, they look at like, for example, for a lot of people they saw and the pandemic we did move to, to Vegas, and they're like, "Oh, wow, you had all this together. You're like, you know what you're doing." No clues. No idea. I just know, I could like, count on myself to figure it out. Like I was like, "I know, I'll do this. I know, I can do that." But I do think a lot of people wait and hold themselves back because they think that they don't have something that for all of us who they think have it. It's it's it's an ebb and flow thing. It's not in every we're not we're not perfectly confident, every area. So thank you for sharing that. I know you're a big fan of kind of taking messy action and going for things. Was that was that something ... from after the firing? Or were you kind of like that even in your corporate career?

Heather Monahan  

No, I've been like that my whole life. I just I'm definitely taking action is not hard for me. Now certain people just gravitate towards certain things. I basically call me a bull in a china shop when I was early on in my sales career because that was sort of the way I just I gravitated easily to that, oh, I'll just go ahead and try that. I might blow it and make a mess and have a disaster and someone else is gonna have to clean it up, and they're not going to be happy about it. But to me, I think, well, it's worth trying, you know, let's just go for it. That's always kind of been my philosophy. I've never been that person that says, you know, "Oh, I'm I'm paralyzed by, this has to be so perfect." A great example of that is my first book, I had no idea how to write a book, right? There's three errors in my first book. And I've had so many people point that out to me, and it makes me laugh. I think it's hilarious. I'm super proud of those errors. And here's why, I will never be the person on her deathbed saying, "I had this amazing book within me. This legacy that I could have left behind. But I couldn't get it perfect. So I didn't do it." Instead, I get to be the girl that shows up and says, "I had this amazing book inside of me, and I couldn't get it perfect. I had three mistakes. But I will tell you, it's changed so many people's lives. It's impacted so many, and it's going to live on so far beyond me being on this earth. And I am so incredibly proud of creating something." Right. So I just I really encourage people listening that that idea of perfection is BS. Right. Done will always be better than perfect and ready is a lie you're never gonna be ready for, it's never gonna come out exactly the way you want. And that's the actual magic, because the mistakes and the messiness is what will lead you to those right people that appreciate you and honor you. I don't want to be around people that want to be perfect. Those are that was the lady who fired me, she always wanted to pretend as though she was perfect. Want to pretend as though there was never a problem, never a mess. Those aren't my people, when you start showing up as that real messy version of yourself, you start attracting those right people towards you. And then you feel even better about who you really are.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I love that. One of my top five strengths is activator. And it's like, I will, I will, I will prefer to test something out and take messy action and to see what happens. And then wait and make sure all the ducks are in a row before I start, because I just didn't ... it's like, well, when is it ready, it's not a good time now, you know, so I'm, it's much better to, for me, it's better timing to just get going. So I really resonate with that. And, you know, I wrote a book as well. And I had an editor, because grammar was not my thing. And, and it came out and I had someone else read it. And she found more stuff. And I'm like, "You know what, at this point, I'm just gonna put it out. This is a self published thing. Like, if somebody if a period missing or the wrong type of comma is keeping them from getting the message. They're not my people, like, I can ... that's a different thing, then they want something else from someone else. And I'll never be that person for them." And so I actually see book I have, if I saw your errors, which read that book, and I didn't. So that was obviously not what I was looking for. To me, when I do see those things, it gives me more permission to just be imperfect, to just do the thing. Like I was listening to another author's audiobook, and I love her. And she's amazing. And I heard an error on audiobook or just repeats a couple times. And I was like, "Amazing, full permission. This is a publisher's person who did not catch something." It's not her, you know, it's someone didn't ... And like that means and that means my things can have imperfections. And it's not going to keep the message from being out there.

Heather Monahan  

So true.

Lesley Logan  

So you wrote a second book, because you apparently didn't get what I got, which is like, "Oh my God writing books are so hard." So what what kind of drove you to do that second book?

Heather Monahan  

Really the DMs and messages that I received from people from my first book, right? So when people started asking me, "When is the second book coming out? And what's happened since you got fired?" Because my first book really stops at getting fired. So I decided to answer their questions, start the next book at getting fired and show them what I did over the last five years. How I did it, and how they can take messy action too. And so really just responding to my community and answering what it was that they wanted from me.

Lesley Logan  

I love that thank you because more people get when I hear people are like little stuck on what to do next. I think it's like, well, what are people asking from you? What is the common conversations you're having? Because that can be the next thing that you do. I know that your mom and we have a lot of women who are moms listening and I wonder being how do you, is there about I have this when I have a ... So is there a way that you have to balance you're running your business, taking on these changing your career and raising a kid?

Heather Monahan  

Yeah, it's not easy, right? I'm a single parent and for all the single parents out there whether it's men or women it can be very challenging especially during the pandemic with you know, the isolation and the Zoom school and me working from home and him working you know. It's been a trying couple years but I knew my attitude around balance is that number one if I'm taking care of my physical and mental health first and foremost. Right. I put myself first. I don't see that as selfish at all. I see it as selfless, because the better I feel, the better I'll be able to take care of my child and anyone else that needs me in the world. So my workout comes first. Right. Like my time for the things that I need to do comes first and as long as those things are happening and I'm sleeping, I can figure out the rest. Everyday does not look the same. There's some days, you know, my son's dog drowned during the pandemic and he became depressed. And so (Lesley: Oh my God.) he that those are those moments in life where it's clear, "Wait a minute, I gotta go all in on this right now like he needed me." Right. So everything had to adjust around that situation, it was very apparent. He's in a very different place now, you know, fast forward two years, he's 15. He's back in school in person, he's playing sports, he's with his friends, he's a lot more independent. But he's got this resiliency that he created through going through these really challenging times. So he doesn't need me 24/7 the way he did two years ago, so I'm able to apply more towards work. But there was a window of time there where I had to take a big step back from work, and just really go all in to support my child. So I guess it's about being present where you are and recognizing that where you're needed is going to change. And, you know, how can you ebb and flow to make it to keep the business running, but but be the best mother that you can be, especially when your child child really needs you.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think it all comes back to even with the confidence and with balance, it's just being how are you being present and how you're feeling and what is needed. But I love that you say that your workouts and your things for your coming first, but not be in a not in a selfish way. It's a selfless way because you can't have energy or even be attuned to other people's needs. Even the people who are following you, let alone your son who means so much. If you're not attune to yourself, you know, like, if you're not able to feel like what do I need for myself today to have this most energy? It's kind of hard for us to then read it in others.

Heather Monahan  

Absolutely.

Lesley Logan  

So okay. I, one of the things I love that you talk about is you're really in your podcast, you're really great at telling people how certain things happened. And I love that because I think people can look at your podcasts, see the guests you have or look at the places where you've spoken and see these things and go, "Oh my gosh, like everything just comes so easy." And when I hear your stories, I'm like, "Oh, thank God. Like, I'm not the only one." Like, I'm just like, "Oh, if she has to do it, like, here we go, you know." So um, what do, I mean obviously, different things work for like different scenarios. But what is, what do you, what is your, what is your way of like trying to figure out how you're going to get people to say yes to you, or how you're gonna get your name out there? Is there a process that you followed? Is there a mantra, you tell yourself? Like, what is it that you're doing that's like, "Okay, I'm not going to take no, from this person because they can't tell me a yes." So how do you, what's that resiliency there?

Heather Monahan  

Well, so as I mentioned, I've been in sales my entire life. Right. So and sales is such a blessing. Everybody's in sales, whether they realize it or not, I just knew I always was I started out as a paperboy when I was nine or 10 years old. I was selling. Right. I needed people, I wanted people to want my service, so I could make money. And so from a very young age, I learned that, "Hey, I'm in sales, and I want to get better and better at this." And like anything, the more you do something, and the more you're going to have an understanding for it, the more you know, you apply yourself to it, you find out different techniques and different ways to you know, accomplish your goals. So I had wanted to be great in sales since I was a little kid and I stayed in sales my entire career. So for me, the philosophies around sales are ingrained in me now. And I'm so lucky and blessed for that. Right. Because whether you own your own business, or you work for someone or your title, salesperson or not, you are selling, if you have a podcast, you're trying to sell people to come on your show. Well, one of the biggest number one sales is a numbers game, right? So I never if somebody tells me no, that doesn't faze me, because I've received thousands of nose across my career, and it didn't ever stop me. A good example of that is I pitched my agent 14 times on 14 different book proposals to sign with her. And she said no to me every single time until lucky number 15. Right. So to me, it's not about the noes. It's about getting to that one, yes. I just don't give up the majority of people will give up after one two or three noes. It's about how can I persevere beyond this? So that's number one. Sales is a numbers game and don't get discouraged by the numbers. Be almost excited by them because the more noes you get, the closer you're getting to that, to that one, yes. So that's how I choose to see getting noes. And then you know, the other thing is, oftentimes, when people are in a situation, let's use the podcast, for example, you want to get so and so on your podcast, it's all about putting yourself in their shoes. And you know, how can I solve a problem for them? How can I add value to them? How can I be meaningful to them? Stop making it about ourselves, right? So so often people reach out and say, "Oh, can you come on my show? My show is so great." You know, so and so would love to have you that doesn't really mean anything to me versus I get some people that reach out to me, "Hey, Heather, here's a screenshot of the review. I just left on your podcast. I love the episode with blah blah blah." You're talking my language you're talking my creation that I you know, bring them market every week, you supported me by giving me a review, you sent me the proof that you actually did it. Now you're specifically giving me feedback on an actual episode. And I can tell by the feedback or give me you listen to it, right? Like you're, you're my people. So now you're at my you got my attention. So it's all about how can we add value? How can you know we show up to support somebody else, add value to them, and put ourselves in their shoes, when you can start looking through that lens, you can start connecting with people, you can start getting their intention and engaging in a conversation with them. And at that point, you know, you're developing some trust, people do business with people they know like and trust, right? You gotta establish that trust, add value. And when you start doing things like that, you see doors start opening for you.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, I was in sales before Pilates. It's actually what I thought I was gonna be in high end accessory jewelry and fashion my whole career. That's what I that's what I thought. I have an entire room of jewelry and hats. Because I'd still like my thing that draws me. And then then Pilates took over my life. And I was people always asking, "How are you getting so many clients?" I'm not good at sales. I'm like, "I'm not selling them Pilates. Like I'm finding out, what do they need?" Because, yes, I want them to be a client. But why should they be a client of mine? Like, what do I have to offer for them. And then it's just about connecting what they want, with what I have. And then we go down that road and with with having this podcast, it is it is this interesting thing where it's a different type of need. I'm like, I of course want to share people with my audience because I have a killer. They're just amazing women. They're so cool. And I'm so lucky to have them. But it can't just be I know, they're amazing. You don't know they're amazing yet, you know? And so it's about what do when I look at people who I want to talk to and I know can serve my audience and my audience can go take take more from them. It's like how can we calculate put those two together, and you mentioned a building relationship and trust. And one of the things Brad and I like to talk about with people we coach, it's like, it's like dating. When you're at the bar, the guy who's like comes up to kiss you right away. You're like, "Whoa, you're scaring me." Whereas the person is like, "I really like your shirt, you know. Do you come here often?" And you're like, "Oh, hello." Like you listen, and you start to build the trust. And you're like, "Yeah, maybe I'll go and have a coffee with you another day." You know, it's really something that I think people forget that we're not different types of people in different scenarios. And that everybody wants to build trust, the ones have trust and feel seen. And and you want people to feel like they know you, and they care about you. And it's not just about them. So I thank you for sharing that process. And how you and you think about it. What are you working on next? Because you've got the books, your public speaking is coming up. We're just on Dr. Phil, like, is there something that you haven't achieved yet that you're working towards? Or are you are you settling in and loving where you're at?

Heather Monahan  

(Heather laughs) No, I never settle in and love where I'm at. (Lesley laughs) You know, I have, I have so many different ideas. You know, before the pandemic hit, I was working with E on a show. I was working with Bravo on a potential show. So I've been reengaged in some talks recently about potentially doing a show. I have been chasing Reese Witherspoon for three years to make my first book into a movie, I'm still on that like white on rice. I am like I'm I've created a product that is not out yet, but will be coming out in the next couple of months that I want to get to marketplace that I am so excited about. So that should be coming out in the next couple of months. It's just a little slow in production. Then I had an app company come to me recently that wanted to partner about doing you know, daily messaging, creating community. So that's something that I'm looking to do. There's so many different projects that I'm constantly working on. And some of them fall apart and fail and nothing comes out of it. You know, I had a clothing line that fell apart, I had a skincare line that fell apart. But then a lot of them like my books or my podcast, you know, come together and work out incredibly well. So it's sort of that idea that as long as I'm moving things forward, as long as I'm doing good in the world, as long as I'm shining light to inspire other people to shine their light, all will be well and it will work out exactly as it's meant to be.

Lesley Logan  

This is so fun. Okay, all these things are really exciting. Many of them you've never probably done before, even though you had this incredible career. So what do you, how do you, what is like how do you step into the process of being a person who is creating a skincare line or an app or a clothing line? Is it, is it research? Is it just taking that messy action like you said earlier? What are you, what are you telling yourself to get yourself ready for those things?

Heather Monahan  

Well, for me, it just it's about the possibility. I don't have to know the whole plan. I don't know, I didn't know how to write a book when I first wrote a book, right? I didn't know how to record a podcast when I first recorded a podcast. I didn't know how to be a board member before I was appointed the board of directors of health like like, I don't know how to do any of this stuff. But you know, I look back at my career. And I remember when I was nine years old, I didn't know how to be a chief revenue officer. But I knew I got there. Right. So it's all about instead of saying what is the master plan and what are the appropriate steps to take to get there. It's about taking that action step board and seeing where it goes. And what I mean by that is this is a good example when I got fired I wanted to partner with the big company and I love clothes. And I wanted a clothing line. And I knew I wanted to get it on QVC. And not because I can sell and so like they could put me on camera and allow me to sell, I could make millions for me and a partner. I knew I wanted to partner because I wanted a big marquee brand. So I tracked down the CEO of Perry Ellis International, got to him, pitched my idea, he loved it, we signed a deal, we started working for nine months together on this clothing line. I got us a meeting with QVC. I didn't know how any of it's going to work out. But I just believed this is a viable business idea. This is something that can help people and I know if I can get on air, I can sell it. So again, I didn't know what I was doing. I don't know anything about clothes. So I picked a partner that did right in that situation, it made more sense to bring a partner in versus doing it on my own. So you know, being open to the possibilities and open to if they had said no, I could have gone to somebody else. And so after nine months, you know, we got our decks together, we got the product line together, I got the meeting with QVC, we went in and did the pitch and QVC said, "Heather, we get why you, we understand that you'd be great on camera. However, this product looks very similar to too many things that we already have on air, we're gonna have to pass on this come back if you have something unique." And that was a tough lesson learned for me. And that was sometimes when you go all in on one thing, and it's taking a lot of your time, a lot of your resources, you know, and you end up not executing on it in the end, you can be frustrated. But it also taught me that I don't know if I don't do a clothing line later on in my career, how do I maybe that is going to be a building block for me to understand. Or maybe that's the building block that I go back with this new product that I create it on my own. And I bring that to QVC because now I have a reporting relationship there and I know what they're looking for. Right? So you can't connect the dots until you're looking back. You can't connect the dots looking forward. So you have to move forward basically with that fate, that I'm not sure why that didn't work out. I'm disappointed that it didn't. But something tells me in the future, I'm going to be able to look back at that and see how that taught me something or lead me a different direction that I wouldn't have been set up for otherwise. So it's really about moving forward in that faith and taking that action and being open to possibilities in the what is and that those fails might redirect you to that right place. You wouldn't have gone otherwise.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I I've been telling myself since I think I heard a version of this, but I've been trying to find it. Like what is for me will not pass me. And it was in 2013, I had a lot of friends worried about me. And for good reason. Thank goodness for them. But I left the person I was with for five years. And I left I was like, "I cannot live here until I find another place. I just have to go and I'll just couch surf in LA." I'll just just, I have enough friends with enough couches. I don't have to overstay my welcome. And I was leaving his house and I totaled my car and was like, "Nope, I'm still going, still doing this." And then the place that I rented space where my my whole private income came from was closing. And I was like, "Okay, just keep taking whatever I don't need to have right now. Because I don't really want to get attached, I want to find an apartment next to a studio that doesn't exist anymore. I'm just going to wait till it's all take it all, take it all and I'll find it." And what's so crazy is in that homeless moment with a rental car waiting to find a place to teach. Los Angeles magazine called and said, "Hey, you you're you're the best Pilates instructor in LA. We're giving that award. We want to put you in the magazine. Where's your studio?" And I was like, "Oh, okay, let me get back to you and when's the party. And I'll be there." And I was like, "This is so insane." Like you, if you're open to possibilities you've mentioned a few times, and you don't get so hung up on what didn't work out. It's kind of crazy what it leads you down. And it was that summer was the best thing ever happened to me I would never have met the husband with now if I hadn't had that experience. And because I would never have dated a musician. Could have been like, "No way. I need someone with a little bit more security." But I survived insecurity. And I was like, "Okay, well, here we go." So I think I think it is so easy when you get really dialed in nine months on a project that you like you said, and to go, aah. And it didn't work out to be so devastated. But you have to pick up and I know that that was not for nothing like that experience taught you so much about the next opportunity where there's another clothing line or maybe it isn't makeup line, you go back to QVC. I mean, who knows what that is. So that is so cool. Okay, Heather, I just think that you're a rock star. You know that already. But I think there's a lot you're gonna do on this planet. And I'm really so grateful to share it with everyone. We're gonna take a moment and then we're gonna find out where people can follow you. Listen to your podcast and your BE IT action items.

What, where is your favorite place to hang out? Is it in Instagram, your website, your podcast? Where can people find you?

Heather Monahan  

Oh my gosh, my podcast is called Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. I dropped two episodes a week. Please go check it out. It's so good. My book is Confidence Creative and first one. The second one is Overcome Your Villains. And you can find them anywhere where you get your books, my websites heathermonahan.com. I'm all over every social media platform. It's crazy at nauseam and yeah, you can DM me or send me a note anywhere.

Lesley Logan  

You might be one parent who is on social more than their kid.

Heather Monahan  

Oh, way more than my kid. Oh my gosh way more than my kid for sure.

Lesley Logan  

Oh my goodness. Okay amazing. Well, everyone please do follow her, subscribe, listen to her podcast, share it. Before I let you go. I love to ask bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps that people can take to be it till you see it. I know you've given us lots of great stories but any tips that you have that they can take action on today.

Heather Monahan  

Yeah, I'll give you the three step process that I share in my new book, Overcome Your Villains. It's called bak, beliefs, action and knowledge. And in this three step process will not fail you. Number one when you are fi... faced with a situation for example, I got fired my belief was, "I've lost everything." No, you need to distill that, belief down to the most simplistic shred of fact that there is. When I did that I realized I lost a paycheck. I didn't lose anything else. Right. Number two, action. Immediately take action. So step one distill the belief to the most simplistic shred of fact that there is you'll feel the pressure come off. Number two, take immediate action. For me, I posted on social media, "I've just been fired. If I've ever helped you in any way I need to hear from you now." That post landed me on the Elvis Duran show which completely changed my life. Right? So number one, distill the belief to the simplistic show the fact that there is. Number two, take action immediately. And number three, be really intentional about the knowledge K, knowledge that you surround yourself with. Don't just consume information, don't just take advice about work from your mother, your mom's not in business, right? Be really intentional about who you are asking for advice from, who you are following on social media, what books you're reading, what content that you're accessing, because it has a massive impact on the way that you think, behave and those next action steps and beliefs that you'll hold as a result.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, I love this. I love it so much. Thank you very much for that. I also love a good acronym around here. Everyone, how are you going to use these tips in your life BAK. Please do us a favor, tag the @be_it_pod, tag @heathermonahan. Let us know, it not only gets into her DMs and lets her know how like what you loved about this and what your takeaways are. It actually helps other people. So if you are wanting your friends and family to actually also be seeking out the things and getting the things that they want in their life, your your post could actually be the thing that does that. So thank you so much for listening. Heather, thank you for being here and everyone until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Who told you couldn’t do the thing you want? Who shaped your belief about money, faith, and relationships? This episode is a deep dive into helping you rediscover the why behind what you believe and the encouragement to become the person you want in this life. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How do you plan for the next year?
• Decide what you don't want in the new year to lead what you do want
• Starts acting as if you already are the person you want to be
• The impact of the vulnerability in conversations 
• You never have to go through your struggle alone
• How to ask better questions with intention 
• The separation of Depression and Anxiety
• Why you need to be clear on why you believe what you believe.
• New Year, New You is a lie. 

Episode References/Links:

• Join us on Tour!
• Get on the Cambodia Waitlist!
• Elevate mentorship Program

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell  

 Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan  

Welcome back to the interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to talk about the emotionally available convo I had with Jeremy and Zach in the last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one, pause this now, go back and listen to that one, or listen to this one and then listen to that one. I mean, honestly, I think you could do either order on all of our episodes. I also know from the download that some of you just do the recap. So I feel like everyone's on the got a lot of people who enjoy the short version.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I mean, it's, it was a good recap. Those guys seem pretty cool. I'm a big Star Wars fan myself, so maybe we'll be hanging out and doing Star Wars talking someday.

Lesley Logan  

I feel like whenever I interview any men, they bring up Star Wars. I think there's very few interviews with men that have not brought up Star Wars. (Brad: Many men) So maybe (Brad: wish death upon me) like, like maybe Michael is the only one. (Brad: Yeah, right.) So anyways, yeah, I thought they were really amazing. And it was a really neat conversation to have and there's some very awesome BE IT action items that we get to talk about. But I just want to say it's so nice to be back from Dallas on this like really short opportunity to be in our house together. That's been a crazy, like we were we were talking about this in Arizona, or maybe it was in Cambodia. But how since end of August, we really haven't been home for a full two weeks ever.

Brad Crowell  

You have clearly stated find the fact that you can remember where we were when we were talking about this.

Lesley Logan  

No. And then also when we were home, there are people here at the home. So like, right now we have like, seven, six days together in our home for the first time since (Brad: In a long time.) August. I don't think we've had six days in our home (Brad: Oh really) together without anyone in our home. No. Five is the longest. (Brad: Wow.) Yeah. And that was between photoshoots and we had to go. Anyways, so I just got back from an amazing time in Dallas with Erika Quest. She is just I mean, she's a fucking amazing person, one of my best friends. And we have now made this an annual trip to teach in Dallas and we're actually going right back there, Brad and I exactly to where I just Pilates for our tour.

Brad Crowell  

I was feeling left out. So (Lesley: Yeah, well you know ...) you know I felt like crash the party and actually just take over and do it on my own.

Lesley Logan  

Our Pilates lovers there were missing Brad and specifically also a workout. So we are going on tour and our first stop is in Frisco and ... (Brad: Frisco) If there are any spots left in any of our classes that are tour, you can find them at onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we'll be doing two in Frisco and then Houston the next day.

Lesley Logan  

Houston and then we head to Nashville. Hi Lauren Zoeller. And we've got a bunch of fan favorite people in Nashville. And then we are going to Atlanta to Joel studio. Just actually outside of Atlanta, it's called Duluth. Don't complain about the drive. If you live in Atlanta, you can do this. And then we go to Greensboro, which is like (Brad: North Carolina) hey, first time doing that. (Brad: Yeah it was first.) And then we're going to do a little Christmas time. Then in Cleveland, then in St. Louis. And then we are home in time for New Year's for our ...

Brad Crowell  

But we will be stopping through Denver for lunch. So (Lesley: Yeah, Denver keeps ...) on the way home at post Xmas we'll be fooding in in Denver.

Lesley Logan  

We'll be fooding in in Denver for lunch. (Brad: Yeah) We're gonna pick a spot where maybe this spot we went to last year where people could just find food anywhere, that (Brad: It was perfect actually.) was pretty great. So (Brad: Yeah) we'll figure out whatever the place that was. But if you are in Denver, and you want to be on that invite list, we'll just watch out for emails and stuff. You want to go on the tour, go to onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour. Also a couple things if you'd like hanging out with us, we have actually announced our presale for the Cambodia retreat next year. Remember, we're only doing one and we let our waitlist there's no first so if you were not on the waitlist and you really want to go, well I hope there's a spot for you. I'm sure there will be and if not just DM me and I will help you get that information. So you do not miss out on the opportunity to go to Cambodia with with us because we're only going one time next year. (Brad: Yeah) So there's that. And then finally, I'm so excited about this. You probably haven't heard me talk about it for a while. And that's because honestly, it keeps selling out. So, I haven't even like brought it up. But if you have been following this path for a while you know that I have a mentorship program for Pilates teachers. It's called eLevate, and we decided to do our first round here in 2022. It sold out with amazing, amazing crew. So we did a second round which are sold out. And then the third round, we're actually going to kick off in May, and that of 2023, which I know you're like, "Lesley, it's only December." Yes. But you know, mentorships are a big commitment. And we like to give people a lot of time to plan for them. And it does start in May. And there's only a couple spots. So if you are a Pilates teacher who's wanted to dive into the classical method, more understand how I was taught, become like a more of a master teacher, third generation instructor, things like that, if you're wanting to, like, teach more, but not be burned out, this is the program for you.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah or even explore classical, (Lesley: Yeah) you know if you're coming from anonclassical foundational training, you know, this is a great opportunity to get into all that too.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so you don't have to be classical to do this, you don't have to be contemporary to do this, you can be either or you just have to have been a teacher already.

Brad Crowell  

At the time, we're recording this, there are three spots available. But if they are filled full, by the time you hear this will be will will add you to the waitlist for the next round, (Lesley: Yeah) round four. So

Lesley Logan  

So you'll go to lesleylogan.co/elevate. And I it's one of my passion. I frickin love this group of people. It's just so fun for us. So anyways,

Brad Crowell  

And you get the join the RAD alumni group.

Lesley Logan  

I know once you graduate, there is a alumni group. (Brad: Great group of ladies.) And there's like, you know, we're we're secretly behind the scenes planning, like a retreat just for Elevators. And so, (Brad: Yeah) yeah, anyway. Well, it's not a secret that I told you about. You don't know where it is or what's going to happen. So that's the secret. Anyways, (Brad: anyways) do we have an audience question to respond to before we start talk about Fit Mess.

Brad Crowell  

We do. So we were asked, with all the things that you have going on in your life, in your business and your friends and family. How do you make decisions about the upcoming year? And how do you plan for the next year?

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, well, that's like, this is a great question.

Brad Crowell  

Also a very broad question but ...

Lesley Logan  

It super broad. Well, well, well, this will gonna narrow it in to the Be It Till You See It podcast as the filter. (Brad: Sure) So first of all, very important that you ask yourself this, because if you don't plan for yourself, you were you will be planned. Don't worry. Like, (Brad: Yeah) it's not like (Brad: It happens whether you plan it or not.) Yeah, it's the same thing like when are, when Hilary says if you don't brand yourself, other people will brand you. Like, if you don't make goals. (Brad: Hilary Hartling) Yeah, someone else is gonna go, make goals for you (Brad: Right) like, so it's important that you take time to set aside like what you want in your next year. And if you're like, "I don't know what that is" because some people like to do that. How do you want to feel then, like, what is that look like? So make sure you're setting aside time. I like to journal, draw, go for a walk, think about things like that percolate on it a lot.

Brad Crowell  

She was on episode 57.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And so I'll let Brad answer how he likes to plan his upcoming year. But first and foremost, I definitely throughout the current year, do retrospection that Kareen Walsh has taught us. She was episode, Brad will tell you in a second, and she has a free resource that you can learn how to do this retrospection. But I do it throughout the year, because I like to know how as the years going, like what I don't want in next year, so that when the new year comes, I'm not like, "I'm doing the thing. I don't want to do anymore." And often what you when you know what you don't want it to let you know what you do want. And then I well before, we're probably actually probably plan the next year around beginning of Q four. Because we have to, and some things that we do happen the same time ish every year. So those things happen on that, like they're already planned. But then the next thing I like to think about and it's hard, this is the hard part, this is why this podcast exists is who do you have to be to have the thing you want to have next year and how can you start acting like it now so it actually happens, hello, be it till you see it.

Brad Crowell  

Well, let me jump in (Lesley: Yeah) because that that's a perfect segue. I'm in the middle of a book right now called The As If Principle by a guy named Andrew Wise... So Richard Wiseman.

Lesley Logan  

If you guys know him, can you help me out? Because y'all I have been trying to find this man's information. (Brad: Information) And I want him on the podcast.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, totally. Richard Wiseman, and a general summary of the concept is to make decisions as if you already are where you want to be. Right? So if you want to be here's a here's a great example. Let's say you want to run a studio that has a team of 10 instructors. Today, you don't have that, but you know that that's where you're going. So if you were going to set up a studio, how would you set up the studio? You would set it up as if you already had 10 instructors? (Lesley: Yeah) Right. So like, would you have a lot of space for a lockers? Would you have a, you know, like a spot for shoes? And like, you know, what are the expectations? How are they checking in? How are they clocking in as an employee? All these kinds of things, you make these decisions as if they're already in place.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And that doesn't mean you spend the money on the clocking and machine or the lockers yet that might ... (Brad: Yeah, not necessarily.) you hold that you you make sure that you have, you hold the space, and you consider that as you're looking for spaces.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs will talk about this act as if you are already the seven figure business you want to be. You know, if you are looking to start a family, act as if you already have kids, how would you make a decision? I think, Lesley, (Lesley: Well ...) talked about this before, in your personal life, when you were looking to meet someone and start a relationship, you were acting as if you already had a relationship happening, which was making coffee for two.

Lesley Logan  

Making coffee for two people. Also making sure that I had evenings or time blocked off that I could not work in case I would go on a date or spend time with that person. (Brad: Sure) And I literally went to New York, my first Christmas being single, so that so that I wouldn't go to my parents house for Christmas, because I was like, "No, I'm going to meet a man who soundly celebrates Christmas and will celebrate Thanksgiving with my family." (Brad: Right) And so I'm not going to go home for Christmas, which really pissed him off. Sorry, guys. But I went to New York and said, and then guess what? We spend Christmas with your family. (Brad: Yeah) So worked out.

Brad Crowell  

So you know, this concept of acting as if I think it's really cool. I think it's, it's a, I think the hardest part is remembering to do it, to be honest. Because it makes sense to it's very logical. I like it.

Lesley Logan  

It's because it's easier to do the thing you already been doing and be the person you already are. And because that's, you know that. So I think like, first of all, if you start acting as if and then you revert back to who you once were, it's like, it's okay, because you don't need to be perfect. But also, if you notice that you did that, then you can make a change. Okay, what would I do next time? How can I like, (Brad: Sure) if you set an appointment based on the person you currently are not the person you want to be? Can you cancel the appointment? Can you reschedule the appointment? Can you block your calendar out so that that appointment doesn't exist anymore? You know, there, it's ...

Brad Crowell  

It's constantly be it till you see it. I think it's like a perfect parallel here. And I mean, it's obviously why we'd love to get ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so I want it. (Brad: Richard on pod.) So who knows it. (Brad: But um yeah.) But I love this question. I hope that that helps. I feel like it could be a little esoteric, but it's like, think of it ... Sometimes it is easier to think about, you don't want to have happen in your life next year, to figure out what you want to have happen in your life and sometimes easier to figure out how you want to feel in your life next year at the end of it. And then what would be the things that have to happen to make you feel that way? And then finally, who do you have to be to make those things happen? How do you act like that person today? It is a consummate be it till you see it. It's also like, how would Oprah do this? Like sometimes I have like, that's what I have to think. (Brad: How would, what?) Oprah do this. (Brad: Oh, Oprah, Oprah.) Yeah, like, we have a big goal that we want to hit in our business. And I had to make changes in my life, in my routine and in how it worked to make us get closer to that this year. If I want to do it next year, next year. I like up the goal a little bit because you know you have to and because because you need we will I want more. And so it's like okay, well then who do I have to be to that? And sometimes I think Oprah or I, I picture other female business owners who have done things that I want to do but it's not exactly the same, but like it's the it in the most general term, it's the same thing. And then I'm like, "Okay, well, how would how would they do it?" Because they're already there. And I could probably look back at examples of what they did, and then interpret it for myself. So anyways, I love these questions, y'all can send them in to the @be_it_pod on Instagram or you can send it into my team. You can send it anywhere to say this is for the Be It pod, you can also send in your bold moments. It's where you take a BE IT action item.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, tell us your bold moments, yell us what's going on for you. We'd love to shout that out.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah.

Brad Crowell  

(Brad claps) All right. Hold on. I'm gonna get the dog bed for the dog so she doesn't keep scratching.

Holy Cow Gaia surprise. Look. Yeah, good girl. Okay, okay, that's better. All right, so (Brad claps)

Okay, now let's talk about Jeremy and Zach from The Fit Mess introduced by through their wives, because I, they said their wives both had daughters at the same time. So (Lesley: Yeah) I'm guessing they met at like, you know, something to do with the kids.

Lesley Logan  

I know. It's made me, this totally made me think of like you and Eddie and all these friends because it's basically because of Chanda Ashley, myself and a couple other wives that you all got together and expanded and made your own friends.

Brad Crowell  

Well, Jeremy and Zach formed a quick friendship because of their love of Star Wars. They began to move to have more intentional conversations about their challenges and their struggles, mental, physical and emotional, which led them to the creation of their podcast, The Fit Mess. Zach and Jeremy are on a mission, to share their stories and struggles to empower men to discuss their feelings and emotions and to motivate them to take small steps each week towards a more fulfilling life. And then they also said that a large part of their audience is actually their girlfriends and wives of the men that they're speaking to. But I thought it was really fun to, to connect with them to listen to them talk about their experience.

Lesley Logan  

You know, I most like, not my football players, but many of the men that I taught in Pilates, I taught them because of their wives. So like, I would teach their wives and their was like, "Husband should be doing this." And I'm like, "Okay, send them in." And, and they would and so it's what I had for a long time, I had more male clients than female clients. Because when you add like the the football players, and then the husbands, I was like, "Well, that's all the intention that I had." But you know what, there are great people that introduce great people. And I think that's what's really cool. So I really, they were talking about, you don't have to go through your thoughts alone, other people in the same place. And you know, it's so this happened when they realized that they were all like, sort of talking around how they were feeling and not really engaging. But when they finally just did, and were just like honest about it, they're like, "Oh, wow, this person feels the same way too." And, you know, I know that they were to my, how, like a lot of men go through this. But if you listen back to the episode, the recent episode with Jessica Valant, when we brought her back, she's like, women are in the school line and they're not talking about how they're really feeling either. They're not talking about what they're really going through either. And so I love that they have a podcast, that they're basically sharing this idea so that other men know you don't have to go through this alone, that you can share your real feelings. But I think in general, what it sounds like is most people are not sharing their authentic feelings with other people in their lives (Brad: Yeah) until it's like this big thing. And like, what if we actually did it throughout the day, throughout the week with the people that we see often?

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I think it's, I think that's a good observation. I think that's funny that I didn't actually I listened to it twice. And I didn't actually think about that. But you're right. If if the conversation is about sharing their feelings, genuinely sharing, you're right. The implication is that people don't do that especially men. So I I also thought they kind of had a laugh about their like, you know, oh, yeah the first time we went out to lunch, it was like, I guess we'll talk about cars and sports and stuff that generally, I'm not into, you know, and I was laughing because I was like, "Oh, yeah, okay." I mean, I'm into motorcycles, but I don't really nerd out that much. I couldn't like tell you about some 1965 motorcycle or something. I don't know. You know, so.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. I did think of you on that because it's true. Like, I think people have the assumption that that's what men want to talk about. (Brad: Right) Just like they assume women want to talk about these other things like (Brad: Yeah) kids.

Brad Crowell  

Family, marriage, wedding, whee

Lesley Logan  

Like no one would actually wants you to ask her about the next wedding date, or when are they gonna have kids? Or if they're gonna have like, no one, you know, one of my friends recently asked me because we're talking about her kid, and she just said, hey, like, it came up in a way that was not actually like, "When are you gonna have kids?" You know what I mean? It was like, "Have you guys thought about that?" I don't know how we would talked about it. And we had an honest conversation around it. But like, I definitely think that people have these like standard questions that they ask people at events, and none of them go deep at all. And it's so (Brad: Right) and that's why no one wants to go to anything. (Brad: small talk) No one wants to have small talk. So what if like one of my Breathwork coaches, she sends out an email every week and it says, "Hey, so and so how are you, really?" And I fucking love that. Because every time I read it, I'm like, "How am I really?" (Brad: How am I really?) You know what I mean? No one's actually asked me that this week. You know, people ask me, "How are you?" But they're expecting, "I'm good." They're, because they're already on to the next sentence. (Brad: Sure) They're not listening. So like, I love that email so much, because it lets me think like, "How am I really?" So, I don't know, I feel I feel like whether it's men or women or even non binary, I feel like we can all do a better job being it till we see it in the conversations that we want to have, asking better questions that actually allow us to, to learn more about the people that we're having a conversation with. You and I are in a Mastermind and there was a couple girls that I've really never like I've I've talked to, but in this group of four, but then we like actually ask different questions. And I'm like, "Oh, my God, how come we've not talked for the whole year? We do the same thing. (Brad: I know) We're going through the same thing?"

Brad Crowell  

Well, it's it's definitely funny, you know, it's one of those where, I don't know, we, I guess you find yourself in the same group, or the same clique, or the same, you know, conversation over and over and over again. And this time, it was just the the it was very, it was happen instance. We were supposed to go to dinner with a group. And then plans changed, and we shut up the restaurant and then surprise, a whole another group was already there. (Lesley: Yeah) We bumped into them inadvertently, like, who knew.

Lesley Logan  

Well, this guy is so crazy. So we made a reservation for five. (Brad: Yeah) And five people at six o'clock. And then, like, 20 minutes before, we're supposed to have dinner, three of the five people. So well, two of them weren't gonna come to that because one of them already been in the restaurant. No big deal. We didn't call the change reservation we just showed up. (Brad: Yeah) We walk in. There are three girls from our Mastermind that we had not planned with. They did not have reservation, I'm like, "Great. You're having dinner with us."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And we and we actually, like, you know, of course we know them. But like, we haven't had a chance to hang with them to have like, one on ones and all the things and that was lovely.

Lesley Logan  

It was so lovely. And like we'll have to figure out how to have some of them on the pod because ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we definitely went deeper than that's the thing that gave us an opportunity to actually go deeper than casual like, "Hey, cool. How's it going? What do you been up to?" whee next.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, well, we got down to like, we knew each other's food allergy. So we're literally at sushi dinner like, "You can have this. I can't have that. You can have." (Brad and Lesley laughs) You know what I mean? (Brad: Yeah that was fun.) Anyways, I just I love that their podcast and their relationship stemmed from this idea that they both had this problem. And they realized that they weren't going through it alone. So they decided to go through it together and be the example of what they want to see in this world. They fucking love that. So what did you love that they said?

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Well, so I thought there was something really interesting about the very, very beginning of the pod. They, I can't remember which one actually mentioned, the separation between or the difference maybe, between depression and anxiety, which I mean, obviously, they're different. But what was what was really like, wow, I never thought about it like that before, for me was depression focuses on the past. Anxiety focuses on the future. (Lesley: Yes) And it was very casual. He just kind of threw it in when they were talking about the two things because one of them suffers from depression, the other suffers from anxiety. And they were like, "Oh, yeah, well, he's always lived in the past. And I'm also in the future." And I was like, "Wow, I never thought about that before." (Lesley: Yeah) That's very interesting.

Lesley Logan  

That's why we've been given today as a gift. It's a present. Right, to be present. Like it's a gift.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, there's that. I mean, I ...

Lesley Logan  

Good luck with being present. But ...

Brad Crowell  

I've definitely gone through like moments of depression. But I think, for me, consistently through my life has been more anxiety. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, fear of the unknown, fear of failure, you know, fear of the pressure, the pressures of life that, you know, I have to meet these expectations, or, you know, I don't know, pay the bills, even something as mundane as that, you know, and it creates that anxiety where one of my dear friends has suffered from depression. And I've always, I've actually, I've not been able to connect with that nearly as much because it's not something that I struggle with as much. However, listening to them, just throw that one sentences was very revealing for me, oh, wow. Depression, you're focused on the past, anxiety you're focus more on the future. Very interesting.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. I think that's interesting. I think some people know that without knowing that and I think some people need to be reminded of that because it can be, it can be hard if you've if you are more one than the other to relate to someone like you just mentioned. But also, if you are with someone who focuses more on the past, asking them questions that just keep taking in the past is not actually that helpful versus like someone who focuses a lot on the future talking about their future. When is your wedding? Are you gonna have kids? (Brad: Right) Are you gonna ... what are you doing that? Like ... 

Brad Crowell  

Oh, this is, (Lesley: you know) very inte... good good observation. 

Lesley Logan  

So this is really funny, because I have some friends who always want to ask things about the future. And like, I love that because obviously be it till you see it like, of course, I must be thinking about the future a lot. But if I live in the future ....

Brad Crowell  

No, actually be it till you see it is focusing on the present.

Lesley Logan  

Well, correct. (Brad: Yeah) No, that's the point. But like, you have to know who you want to be in the future to be present in the thing during the be it. Right. (Brad: Yes, yes.) So which I do, but when people like I have a couple of friends who are always asking about the future, "When is this? When is this?" And I'm like, "Oh my God." I just like, "You have no idea what you just put me into these are the things..." Because I can lean (Brad: Sure) anxious, more easily that I can lean depress. I'm not a depress, I don't really. And that's like, sometimes I wonder I'm like, "Is there so much I think about the past little bit more." But like I don't, I like you know, I've moved on, healed from it, dealt with it, decided how I feel about that. I'm good. And so I tend to shy away from people where the questions are all futuristic. (Brad: Interesting) And how are you to do that? What do you do that? What is this going to be? And I'm like, I actually can hear myself try to make the question shorter, or change the subject, because some of those questions can create anxiety, and I'm at a party and now I'm anxious. (Brad: Right) And I'm a high functioning introvert. So I'm already like, "I want to see all of you. I need to go lay down."

Brad Crowell  

That's a great observation about the questions, you know, and I wonder, like, I wonder, I wonder about the psychology behind that. If it would make more sense to ask future questions to people who are suffering from depression, as opposed to (Lesley: Maybe we'll bring my ...) past questions vice versa, like asking past questions to people who are more prone to anxiety.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so we should have a little like checklist like or a badge. This is my name. And I prefer questions about this. (Brad and Lesley laughs) Like, you know, you have your pronouns and then you have like I lean ... anxious, I lean depressed. (Brad: Right) Please ask me only questions about ...

Brad Crowell  

Ask me about my future. Ask me about my past.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, my God. It's like, I think about my Uber profile that I haven't filled out but I want to go like, "I don't want to talk to you."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah. But if you have to ask, asked me about my future.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Oh, not me. But yes. So well, maybe we'll have maybe we'll have one of my therapists on. I don't like what my past therapists on to like answer. See if we're on the right track here before.

Brad Crowell  

Interesting, interesting stuff Physician.

Lesley Logan  

This is a hypothesis right now, everyone, please don't go like performing an experiment and blaming us. So.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, that's really funny that you say that, because one of the comments that I want to say was Zach hat was my biggest fear is that I will give advice on our podcast that will actually hurt someone.

Lesley Logan  

Because he's so like, it's so perfectly aligned with his anxiety.

Brad Crowell  

So, you know, the disclaimer that you just gave that made me laugh. Yeah.

Lesley Logan  

Well, I think I resonate with him a lot. But I it's true. I'm like, please don't like, you know, go, don't, don't go jump off a cliff. You know what I mean? (Brad: Yeah) Like, like, let's experiment first in a safe place.

Brad Crowell  

So funny. All right. Okay, now let's talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your conversation with Jeremy and Zach from The Fit Mess? So I'm gonna hop in real quick they're, they each had one that worth, that they shared that was really, really great. I thought it was, I thought this one was really reflective of my life, and it was question your own beliefs. And this is a tough one, I think, you know, especially if you were raised religious, or had a very opinionated adult, you know, in your life, parent, or teacher. And I know, for example, that had I met you prior to my first marriage, there's not a chance that we ever would have been together.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, for sure. Don't worry, same thing.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Because I had a very specific conceptualization of right, wrong, rules, life, this is how it should, should not be, all those things.

The only reason that that changed was because I had an incredibly traumatic event happen, my divorce. And it caused a massive introspection, like reflection, internal reflection of like, what I do wrong, what could I have done better? I think I've reviewed every fucking conversation that she and I had ever had ever, you know, ever. And I analyzed it and thought about it and like, looked to see, what did I miss? How did I, how did I get to where it was? All this kind of thing. And there was so many instances of me deciding I wasn't happy with myself in the situations that she and I had gone through that forced me to look at me. And that was like a unique moment in my life. I don't know that I would have changed or reviewed or questioned my own beliefs. Have I not gone through this emotionally devastating event. Otherwise, I probably would have just, you know, kept on, keeping on. And I would have been the same person that I was. And my life wouldn't be anything like it is today.

Lesley Logan  

That's true. Well, (Brad: That's true.) I actually really loved when they said that. Because I think people say that, like you should question like, you know, because thoughts become facts, and then facts become me think let me know if you believe it. And like, we think we know, on certain levels, we hear that. But like, have you ever actually written down what you believe? And have you ever there's like thought about like, do you know why you believe that? I'm not saying what you believe as you're listening is wrong, or that should be like, like ...

Brad Crowell  

I think that's key to clarify.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, cuz I actually don't, I think a lot of people most of their beliefs have good intentions. But I do think ...

Brad Crowell  

Well, I mean, I don't even know if they have intentions or not. (Lesley: Yeah, well, that's ...) It just their belief. (Lesley: Yeah.) Why do you believe what you believe?

Lesley Logan  

And so not to like, look at your beliefs and go all these are wrong? These ... your beliefs are not wrong, inherently. But do you know why you believe them? And is that belief aligned with who you want to be in this world? (Brad: Yeah) And who you who you want people to think you are in this world? And so I know ...

Brad Crowell  

And past who, you know, it's also about yourself, like, are you comfortable with those? And why why I think that the asking, why do you believe what you believe? And (Lesley: Oh yeah) actually going back and, like, do you believe what you believe? Because that's what you were told, you read in a book because of personal experience. I mean, there's like only a few options of why you believe what you believe.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I mean, like, think about what you about how you feel about money, your beliefs around that. Who told you that? Your beliefs around yourself, who said that? (Brad: Yeah) Um, your beliefs about other people and how, what their intentions are to other people? Who told you that? Because you grow when you are born, you don't have beliefs. (Brad: Right. You don't.) You are, you know, you want to eat, sleep and pee. Like that's what like that's what your whole intentions are. You know, and then they are passed along and like ...

Brad Crowell  

They are learned from somewhere.

Lesley Logan  

They're learn... and I have to say, like, I I don't know how some some of the beliefs that my family had. I thought I didn't believe but like my actions were otherwise when, especially when it came around money, but certain beliefs that like I remember certain family members having around types of people and kinds of people and things like that. I really disagreed with, but and I had to like ask myself was what I, why was, why was I in conflict with that? And what is going on there? And like how do I how do I feel about that? And I think as we get as adults, especially as like everyday, it's feels like the world is burning down. It is challenging your beliefs. (Brad: Yeah) Now, if your reaction is instant, like oh, whatever, that's okay. If you have taken the time to ask yourself why you believe that way, and why you're reacting that way in the moment.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And I think right now, what we're what I'm envisioning in my mind is, you know, very foundational beliefs like religion and, you know, society, you know, other rising people and all that. However, it can be, it doesn't have to be quite as foundational as that. Although this is foundational, not the minimalize it. But I again, I think it was Zach's example was he was overweight as a kid. And so he was always told, you know, you're not good enough. You're the fat kid. And now he's 43. And he's not, you know, overweight anymore. But he still sees himself as that. He's still in, like ...

Lesley Logan  

That's a complicated, that's it ... That's a complicated belief, because it's, his, his, his thoughts, his beliefs are because what people told him ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah. And when he was talking about this, he was saying, you know, why do I believe that? You know, and like, what, like, where did that come from? And is that something that I should still be holding on to?

Lesley Logan  

And for the record, overweight or not? No one gets to tell you, you're not good enough. You are good enough by being a fucking human being like, (Brad: Yeah) it doesn't actually matter what the scale says, like, you are good enough. (Brad: Yeah) And I think like ...

Brad Crowell  

So it's interesting, because, you know, I guess what I was saying was the pe... you know, like, the beliefs that I was challenging were beliefs that that I learned, people were sowing into me with the intention of good, whereas the beliefs that he was, has, has (Lesley: Yeah) learned and embrace were sown into him with the intention of hurt and negative and bad. Either situation you're still embracing beliefs, and why are you doing that? And on should you be.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. This is, y'all that's a tough, that's a heavy BE IT action item. And and we gotta just stop there. But we have one more. (Brad: We do.) So good luck with that one, I think it's important to do it around the holidays, specifically, before you hang out with your family. (Brad: Yeah) Because you're going to hang out with your family and you need to, you need to be like really apparent, like, you need to do something really quick. You're going to have conflict with them, whether you say it out loud, or in your head, if you are clear on why you believe what you believe, you will have less anxiety, depression, frustration, like inner turmoil, because you will be found, you will be like, this is this is what I believe. And that's, and they believe that but like, I don't have to believe that.

Brad Crowell  

Right. You'll be secure in your beliefs.

Lesley Logan  

In the early part of this year, I, there was a situation that happened. And I called my therapist and I was like, "This happened. I can't believe I did this ... I thought I was over this." And she said, "It's actually okay, you got angry about that. What's not okay is that you got mad at yourself for being angry about that. Like, it's not okay that you judged yourself." That's where the work is. And so, if you do this BE IT action item homework, and you have a moment when you want to punch a pillow at your parents house at Christmas time, that is okay. (Brad: Yeah) Don't get mad at yourself. Don't punch them and don't get and also don't judge yourself.

Brad Crowell  

Don't touch them and don't judge yourself for getting angry. It's okay to get angry. That's normal. That's life as humanity.

Lesley Logan  

You are, you're supposed to feel your feelings. (Brad: Yeah) And it is part of the process. Just because you have done the work to figure out what your beliefs are. And then you go and put yourself in a situation where you're frustrated by other people's beliefs because you're like how can you believe that. I love this person and they believe that I don't believe. It is okay to be upset at that. It's not okay to get upset at yourself for being upset that because you're a human being who is in process and you will eventually get to a place where like you can let that go because you know that you're doing the work in other places where it makes a difference. (Brad: Yeah) Anyways, my favorite action item after that heavy one which I don't think that was our attention. But I'm just thinking about the person listening to this and I'm and not time of the year that they're listening to they're like, a lot, guys (Brad: Yeah) Good luck, let me know how it goes. One of, they said, Jeremy said, when, when you when you want to see change in your life, it's more than just a desire, it is a decision. And so you have to see and believe that you are the person that can be and want to be that. So his example was he wanted to be a bike guy. So he didn't just think I want to be a bike guy, someday I'll be a bike guy, and like, look at bikers and go, I want to be a bike guy. I think there was like a cycle, actually versus like a motorcycle. But ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, bicycle. 

Lesley Logan  

So instead of just like wanting to be a bike guy, and someday being a bike guy, he like, rode his bike to work. So guess what? He made the decision. I want to see this change. I want to be this person. I'm going to do this thing to do to have that thing in my life. And I ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, he took took action on it. But also, before even he took action on it, he was specifically he was like, "Oh, it'd be cool if I was the bike guy." And then he's like, "No, it needs to be more than that." It was, I am the bike guy. I am, I'm the guy. I'm the guy who gets up at five in the morning, and gets the, you know, bike, you know, uniform on and rides, you know, 10 miles to get to wherever he's (Lesley: Yeah) going, you know, "I am that guy." And he and he, like, he (Lesley: Yeah) made that decision before he even took that action.

Lesley Logan  

Which goes back to the question we answered today, which is like, if you are that person who has these goals achieved at the next year, then what like what does that person do? That person puts on that? I think it's like a singlet. That person you know buys these things, that person like has the fancy backpack that has all the things in it, like that you make decisions based on that person. And then you do the, then the actions follow and boom, you are that bike guy. (Brad: Yeah) And so I hope that like especially now everything that's going on if there are changes you want to make in your life, make the decision to have the change happen now and then allow yourself to take action based on as if that change has happened before you seen the results of that change happening and that's what makes the result.

Brad Crowell  

I think we're talking about New Year's resolutions right now. (Lesley: No, we don't do resolutions ...) I'm aware (Lesley: We do ...) but my point is the process of making change.

Lesley Logan  

Well, because we we are we be it till we see it, we take messy action and we are we are not making resolutions because of who we want to be next year is just like getting like the up, the new update on the iPhone. There's a new update. Okay, you know, download, implement let's go like all of a sudden your phone has new things it can do because it's like oh like like for example what is ours like a 13 plus or whatever. So but it has the operating system of something something point something, my phone isn't go, "I'm a 13 plus." It goes. "No I'm operating with this system." Like it doesn't doesn't go, "Sorry guys can't upgrade to that." Like you know what I mean? Like it just goes, "Now I have these capabilities," boom. So that's to me ...

Brad Crowell  

You're speaking my tech language here, Babe.

Lesley Logan  

I, thank goodness because I was really just like riffing that. You know me, I don't know anything about my tech but I have I wrote that blog years ago with Clare Solly, my slingshot friend. And I wrote like you're there's no such thing as like a new year, new you. It's just the upgraded version of yourself based on the experiences that you have, and the decisions that you've made. (Brad: Yeah) The changes that you do, to be the person you want to be. Boom. I think you're awesome. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell  

And, I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan  

How you use these in your life? What are you gonna do? Which one are you going to take action on right now? Which when you take action on the future? We want to know. And so what you need to do is share this with a friend, tag the @be_it_pod and tag The Fit Mess so they can see what actions you're taking and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan  

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

 It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli. 

Lesley Logan  

 Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing. 

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi. 

Lesley Logan  

 Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can.

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

It’s time to get more specific with the ways we are supporting one another. This world is messy, motivation doesn’t often come to us, we have to find it and The Fit Mess is an example of how growth can come from becoming more intentional. Listen in for their story of recognizing unhealthy mental patterns and choosing to start something new. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The separation of depression and anxiety.
• Fears and disbeliefs that come with starting a podcast. 
• Recognizing you are not alone in your mental health.
• Motivation is a very fickle friend.
• How to continually choose the intention instead of the unhealthy path.
• The path of ignorance is easier but unfulfilling
• The evolution from friends to business partners
• The importance of pushing forward despite distance, families, ect. 

Episode References/Links:

• The Fit Mess Podcast
• The Fit Mess Guys on IG
• Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg PhD
• The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

Hello, Be It listener. How are you babe? What's up? How are ya? Really? Are you good? Um, I asked that because I'm actually really excited for you here, I have two guests for you today. And what is cool is you'll hear how they met. And one of the things that they did was like, notice that the other person was a little bit more specific around how they were doing. And there's these little signs that we put out into the world that show that we are down for a different kind of conversation that we are open to new things and new relationships. And, and I say this because it is at the heart of what this conversation is, there's a ton of things you're going to hear. And I hope that you challenge yourself to see yourself in the story. Because while they're talking about putting a podcast together and becoming friends, and you may think that your life is a little different, there are things you can see in the story that will make sense to you. But I hear a lot that people are wanting new, deeper relationships. But when people ask you how you're doing, do you just say, I'm okay? Or do you use a different word that's a little bit more specific around how you're doing that day. And that doesn't mean everyone's gonna pick up on it. Right? But going back to even the conversation we had with Jessica Valant, when she said, ladies, what we can do when we are waiting for our kids. And, you know, at school instead of just going, Oh, I'm good. You could just you could just like mention a symptom or a feeling that you're having, and maybe share those things. One of my girlfriends that I have at the gym like I'm not in menopause yet, but she is sharing her journey with me. And it allows me to connect with her in a different way and for us to have different conversations. And so if you are someone who's looking for more meaningful relationships in your life, I hope that this week's episode with the host of The Fit Mess Podcast inspires you to share yourself in a different way with people to dive deeper into meeting who your people are and finding those people and it's not the easiest thing that you'll ever do, in fact, but most things that are worthwhile are not easy to do. So I'm excited for this. I can't wait for you to hear it. There'll BE IT action items of course you know, I love them always. But I really do think that these two are very unique and, and give you a lot of room to play with them in your own life. Here's Jeremy and Zach of The Fit Mess Podcast.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, Be It listeners. I'm so excited because I have two really cool dudes here. I'm really excited for them. I met them through this whole podcasting world, and I got to be on their podcast. And, you know, I, I find it very fascinating how people end up working together and how they end up starting new things. And so Jeremy and Zach, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell the Be It listeners who you are and what you guys are up to?

Zach Tucker  

Well, I'm Zach. And so we, we're the hosts of The Fit Mess Podcast, we, we, you know, Jeremy and I are kind of two odd guys, and that we talk about our feelings and our emotions and be vulnerable. And we try and spread that word. And, you know, Jeremy, Jeremy lives in the past with some of his depression, I live in the future with my anxiety. And you know, once a week, we come together, and we're in the now and we do our show. And we talk about all the things that people can do to manage their mental health, their emotional health, their physical health, and just be better people overall, living in a world full of chaos.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, my gosh, there is so much to talk about with that, right there.

Jeremy Grater  

Yeah, he did, he hit on it otherwise, you know, I'm Jeremy. And we started the show about four years ago. And it really was born from a natural relationship that grew between us, we were having conversations with each other about the struggles and challenges that we had to take care of, like he said, our mental, physical and emotional health. And in being really vulnerable with each other. He knew that I had a history in podcasting. And he made the realization that this is not something that we hear a lot of as guys talking about their feelings, talking about how hard it is to do all these things, and all the challenges that we have to overcome to to just feel a little better every day. And so eventually, he twisted my arm and twisted and twisted it. And then it almost broke. And I said, "Okay, fine, let's do a podcast." So here we are.

Lesley Logan  

So I love that description of one of Jeremy in the past, and you're in anxiety in the future, Zach, I think a lot of people don't realize like that those two things, like are separate, right? Like depression is typically when you are most thinking about the past in a way that you can't have it to had or like something and go certain ways or, or not even the pres... like just like, you get distracted by that. And then the anxiety of just like thinking about things that haven't even happened yet. What I'm wondering, though, is like, Jeremy, since you had a history in podcasting, Zach you didn't like, what was, what, did you have any fears about going into this and sharing these thoughts and these feelings? Because I mean, there's truth like, you don't have listeners in the beginning. I mean, I have your friends and family, but that's almost worse. Like I almost was like, "Oh, my mom is listening."

Jeremy Grater  

Right, right. ... way more filtered because mom's gonna listen. Yeah.

Lesley Logan  

So was it, what was what were the steps you guys took? And like, what were the fears or wonders that happened before you got started?

Jeremy Grater  

So for me, I had, you know, many years of radio experience at that point. And I've been podcasting since like, 2004. So the idea of a podcast was was nothing new to me. And it was one where I very much shared like, like, the more ridiculous the most embarrassing stories about myself because it was it was like a comedy show. The whole point was to share how ridiculous my life was. And so I didn't really have any hang ups with that. But because I was very new to sort of, you know, biohacking or like trying to take care of myself any sort of wellness thing. I just thought, you know, this is for people with certificates on the wall. This is for people that went to big schools and learn things and have some specific tool that they're gonna craft and like sell you on. And I just was like, I'm not that guy. I'm just a guy who's done some stuff and it's kind of worked out and it's, you know, might help others but I don't know. And Zach insisted that no, that's everyone's on this journey, everyone's just a few steps ahead of somebody else. So this is designed for the people that were just a few steps ahead of the people that that are struggling, like we were a year two, three years ago. And the more research I did, and sort of look into the space, and I found he's right, it's a lot of interviewing the people that are the experts that have done the work and, and then relating with your own personal experience, how those, those practices can really benefit your life. And that was what got me over the hump and convinced me that this was the right thing to do.

Lesley Logan  

I can resonate with that.

Zach Tucker  

And, and from my side, you know, Jeremy is the one who's comfortable in front of a microphone. And I think today, I'm okay, like, I have no problems doing that. But I still remember our very first show, and like, we walked in, and Jeremy and I were having these conversations one on one. And in those conversations, I was like, Oh, and this and that, and this and just, you know, on fire. And then we got in front of the microphone, it was like, ... I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do. This thing is in my face, I don't. So it was very, very nerve wracking, very anxiety producing for me. And then on top of it, like, you know, I was comfortable with Jeremy, talking with, you know, my feelings and emotions and vulnerabilities and things like that. And even though we had no listeners, like to your point, like, you know, parents listen, and you know, some friends listen, like I was, I was terrified of spilling all this information out about me, and putting it out there for anyone to hear. So it was it was very nerve wracking at the beginning.

Lesley Logan  

Well, I think those people are listening, you can resonate, maybe you don't have a podcast or not even think about starting a podcast. But if you are trying to go live on Instagram or trying to create a post for something, or I remember when my husband Brad was like, "You have to have a YouTube channel." And I was like, to Jeremy's point, like, "Who am I to do that? There have been people have been teaching for 30 years, they should have the YouTube channel. I've only been teaching for for four and a half years." Like, and he's like, "No, no, you just you're gonna do a YouTube channel." And even though like, no one even knew I was doing, I didn't tell a soul I wouldn't even post about because I was so afraid of like what people would say. And it took until like my first comment that people were kind and like, "Oh, thanks for putting this out there." I was like, "Oh, okay, they're not going to come after me." (Lesley, Zach and Jeremy laughs) You know, like you we build up some in our head about what could happen. Clearly Zach and I are like an anxiety world, like in the future these all these things can happen. But like, if you actually just take a step back and go, okay, really like the entire YouTube followers are gonna like go crazy on you all have podcast listeners who don't have yet are gonna think something. And I think it is very easy for us to get in that worry state of that. And then also, it is hard, you're not born looking at a dot or like you're not, it's not a natural thing to just come up and start sharing your thoughts and your feelings, knowing that other people are going to be listening and like, you whisper those things into the restaurant that come up, you're like, "Let me lower my voice because I don't want all these people in the restaurant to hear." So I think it is really difficult to do those things. And and I just want to I want to say like, to Jeremy's point you guys mentioned like who you are for, you guys were like we're going to talk about for people who are like, we're a few steps ahead. And I think a lot of us think we're trying to talk to everybody or your posts are for everybody. If you're a teacher and watch it, listen to this. Or if you maybe you're making crafts and you're like ever like you're not you're making it for like these people and so you're not for the people who are expert, biohackers those people are listening to somebody else, but you're for the person who's like, "I don't even understand the words they're saying." Like, for example, I listen to Huberman sometimes and I'm like, "How, is anyone listening to this guy? I need to slow him down. I have to look up some words." Like I who am I saying.

Jeremy Grater  

Yeah, that's definitely something that I still struggle with, in many ways, especially when it comes to like the Instagram lives or whatever. You know, I've gotten to a point I was talking with somebody about this the other day that like, the closer I get to the microphone, the farther the filter go, goes away from like, what I feel like I can say, but when it comes to like, looking into my phone, like walking around like this, talking to nobody, even if there's 500 whatever, people, I'm talking to a device, and I still have that barrier, that's tricky for me to like, break down that wall and go, "No, I'm actually talking to somebody. Somebody's hearing this right now in a month, in six months, in a year, whatever." (Lesley: Yeah.) And, and sort of just, like I'm just I'm always trying to, like get things out of my way. And that's one that's still in my way is breaking down that wall and just being okay with I'm just gonna put this out there because it could help somebody and I don't I don't know, that ever had the fear or have the fear that someone's gonna like, you know, rage about it or whatever. I worry more about this person who who takes my advice, and it somehow harms them. And I don't I'm always worried that I'm going to tell somebody something and they're going to try it and somehow it's going to bring more pain. And (Lesley: Yeah.) that's the thing that really scares me. I can I can take the wrath, I can take the comments and the hate mail and all that like that, whatever. But if I actually end up doing the opposite and harming somebody that's that's what definitely concerns me.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I understand that a lot. When you, so your four years in that's like not a new show. (Jeremy: No) (Zach: No) How have you guys, have you guys evolved what the show is about? Or are you still on the same path? Like, what has been the journey that you guys have gone on with this?

Zach Tucker  

Yeah, I think generally speaking, we're still on the same path. We have changed the message a little bit, just based on all the guests that we've had come on. And we've had these realizations of, oh, 25, people have said the exact same thing, we should probably focus on that. But the original intention of the show was, you know, the name is The Fit Mess. And the the, the idea that we had around it was, you know, to take care of yourself in today's day, and age is hard. And it's actually messy, and it's not perfect like, and to expect perfection in doing any of these things is, you know, going to be is going to be a useless effort. And the analogy I like to use is, you know, like, if you have, if you're in your house, and you're in your bed, and the house is completely cluttered, like hoarder, cluttered, right, and you can't get to the kitchen. You don't have to clean the whole house, you just have to clear path to the kitchen, and then you can eat. And then if you have to go to the bathroom, you can clear path to the bathroom. And then if you have to get to the front door, you clear path, and eventually you'll make, you'll make enough paths where the clutter will start to clean up. And you don't have to do it all at once. And that's really what we're trying to do to send that message from the very beginning that, you know, being healthy, mentally, physically and emotionally, is is something you can't do all at once. You have to pick and choose small steps along the way. And I think the two things that really kind of popped out for us along the way was this questioning your own beliefs as you go along this journey, and motivation. Jeremy says that, you know, way better than I can, but you know, like, you can't wait for motivation to come to you, you just have to be the person who does the thing that you want to do. And that, I think that took us both by surprise, because we were both like, "Wow, we listen to this guest and we want to do this thing, but I'll do it Monday, or I'll do it next week." Or, you know, wait till I'm you know, feeling energized. And, and we just kept hearing over and over and over again. Motivation doesn't come to you, have to go get it yourself. (Jeremy: The other ...) So (Jeremy: Sorry) yeah, go ahead.

Jeremy Grater  

I was just gonna say the other part of this that that I think has evolved, but has remained foundational to it is that it's very, it can be very lonely, to have these pains and these fears, and these, all these things that hold us back. And so we wanted to be there for that person and say, "No, us too, we feel it too, we have the same struggle." And the further we've gone on this journey, it becomes even more isolating often because you end up shedding a lot of the friends and a lot of the connections and the (Lesley: Yeah) things that used to the life that you knew, and all of a sudden you're just constantly just going down this dark tunnel of what's what's that glimmer of light ahead. And it can just be so lonely. So we just very much wanted to create a space where people could hear other people particularly guys, you know, we aim for guys when we went into this because we didn't hear a lot of this. And so we just wanted to be there for them and to show them that it's okay to have these feelings and have these thoughts and to go through this stuff. But what's been really interesting is that while we talked all these guys, it's it's their wives and girlfriends who show up and say, "I wish my boyfriend would listen to this. I wish my husband would listen to this because he could really gain a lot from this." So that's that's been the other sort of hallmark is just being a point of connection for people because it's just so lacking these days.

Lesley Logan  

I love that you said that because it's so true. And like we have a lot of guests who come on the show who've told people you know, in different ways about boundaries, like there's an episode that'll have come up before you guys that she was like hardcore like, about like, if you are letting if you are not upholding your boundaries, you are basically like, like, like not like not then and I mean ruining your life. It was even more dramatic than that. And I was like, she's not wrong for so many people letting go of those family members is really hard. And find... and so... and and having access to surrounding yourself with people who are on that path ahead is so hard. And one of my previous guests said, then your podcasts are a free source of friendships that you can hit, you can spend more time with your podcast hosts. And if we are the average of the five people you hang out with and you could just hang out with them until you can get yourself to a place and I think that is really cool that you have set this up for clearly their wives but hopefully them someday (Zach: Yeah) because I do think that you can start to feel a little bit crazy. Like when you, I go to a family reunion or wedding you're like, "How did I come from here?" Like, like, "What, where how did this happen?" And so you can feel like you're like not even a unicorn but like there's like a like some weird spotlight on you. And so to hear from other people like actually I'm the same we're doing the same thing and you're not alone. And it is not easy to be the one that evaluates your your beliefs and who looks at yourself under a microscope and like decides to make some changes. You're not alone in that, other people are doing it too.

Jeremy Grater  

Well, I know how far I've come and even now, like, I'm at this weird like crossroads in my life where like, I'm kind of in a struggle of my own right now. And I can feel the pull to go back to, oh just give up on like, this is just way too much like reading and self reflection and crying and pain, like, just go back to not giving a shit and just show up, but you know, go get some job and just live the normal life. Like, it's just it's, I feel that pull, because it's so much easier. That path is easier as (Lesley: Yeah) this one is... I think I think it is, I think it is because it's it's sort of that idea of, I don't know that it would be now. But living with the ignorance of what I don't know about myself and all the things that I could explore that was an easier life. Because pain, oh, beer fixed until tomorrow than it hurts. Oh, beer fixed like, it's just this awful cycle that is really unhealthy. But now that I know what I know, it's almost I think it is impossible to go back. Because it's, (Lesley: Yeah) it just seems so difficult. It seems harder to make that turn. But there's this pole of I want that ease back, I want to just to just go through the motions and show up but I know better. And so every day I have to wake up and I have to read the things and talk to great people like you and do these things that help keep pushing me forward. Because it does it just it's a lonely difficult path. But it is so much more rewarding than the one that I was living.

Zach Tucker  

Yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) and I have. So my, you know, my, the way I grew up, like I had a fairly traumatic childhood. And things happen to me along the way that like, by the time I got to 20 I was like, ridiculously anxious, shy, overweight, like 300 pounds, like just everyone thought I was going to be dead or in jail, you know, just just not in a good place in any way, shape, or form just due to the environment that I was in. And that's when I was around my family. And I kind of disappeared and moved to Seattle, and got away from my family. And that's when like most of my journey happened. And my the family that I do hang out with. They're the normal ones. They're the ones that I like, and I actually appreciate. But every time I go back to the town I grew up in and hang around my family. The feelings of who I was when I was 20 resurface. And I hate those feelings. And it's such a good reminder for me of, "Yeah, this was really hard, and you need to keep pushing, and you need to keep doing more work because that was bullshit."

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. One of my one of my friends were the guests early on, she recently had to go see her family. And she, she's done like all the work like she's done, like all the things. Right. And she's like, she's like, "Lesley, I went back there and I was like, I was 13 again." And it (Zach: Yeah) was just she's like, "I have more work to do because clearly I have not healed all of that yet." And I think it is so important for us to do that self reflection, because we can keep growing and we can and we can share it with others. There was a couple books. So I want to wait for motivation, because I do think it's this interesting thing that people will use as an excuse to not take action. And BJ Fogg says in his book Tiny Habits that he describes motivation is a very fickle friend like super like you would always go to a party with this friend. Like this is the friend that you would like do fun things with. But you would never ask this friend to pick you up from the airport. So like (Zach and Jeremy laughs) this ... like you would not rely on it to do anything that's actual actual importance in your life. And, and also, the harder something is the more motivation we need, which is why he talks about making things as simple as possible so that you don't need the motivation, you can just do it. The other thing Jeremy brought up like, there's this pool you think you move forward and then there's this pool. And it makes me think of Gay Hendricks book The Big Leap if I don't know if you've read it, but it is one of my favorite annual books to read. It is an annual read because it is all about whenever you get outside of your your like comfort zone. So like every time you get a new level, you're comfortable again, right? Whenever you like actually get outside that comfort zone, you will have this pool, it can be worry. It can, you can cut pick fights, you could actually get sick. Like there's, there's these things that can happen. He picks like, like six or seven different things that everyone does to like pull themselves back to where they were. So they feel very safe. And like in this, like this is how things are and it is so fascinating. Every time I read it because I pick up something new. And I will you know take there'll be a new level we'll have something with the podcast that will go well or something with the business and then I can start to think about all the things that aren't going well like oh, well we haven't done these seven things actually. So let me just like get back into us a different spot where like nothing is going well.

Jeremy Grater  

Right. Totally, totally. And I've been doing that a lot. I went through this major life change last year. Literally like left my 20 year career, sold my house, left the town, everyone I knew left my country, moved to a different country, moved to a town and they met in the middle of the mountains where I knew nobody had no real job, no idea what we were going to do. But we took the leap, we just went, this is something we want to do. And there was a lot of like visualization and things that had to happen to make it all happen, but it eventually did. And now that I've been here, all of that excitement of that year of, "Oh, we got to do this and talk to the lawyer and make sure this happens and book, the truck and do all that." Now we've we've settled, right, like, we're here, the kids are in school, my wife has had a job, I'm on the verge of like some things panning out there. And there's just like this comfort that sort of settling in. But we still haven't really like found community, like we've sort of like, built the blocks. But now we've got to like, flavor it with the friends and things like that. But we're still we're so close to home that we go back a lot. So I have that same situation where I'm back into feeling familiar setting with familiar faces. And so there's this, that's where I think some of this push and pull comes from is like I'm there for a weekend. And then I'm home back home here for a couple of weeks, and then a back there for a week. (Lesley: Yeah.) And just that like sort of living in the two worlds, I think is where a lot of my conflict is coming from. (Lesley: Yeah.) And it's really hard to move forward when I'm still so anchored in the past as much as I am. And so, you know, I think the just really just trusting your journey is the is the key, right? Like (Lesley: Yeah) believing in the Northstar that you set for yourself and just keep pushing for that no matter how much the winds want to push you back to where you were comfortable where you started.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, you know, one of the things that Brad and I say was so I don't want to say good, the wrong word, because it's a bad place. But like, ha... we moved to Las Vegas on June 1 of 2020 from Los Angeles, a town we thought we'd never leave, right. And people were like, "Was it hard to settle in?" I'm like, well, we couldn't really go back to LA. We weren't missing anything. There was no birthday parties. There was no weddings, the whole city was shut down. My clients were all doing virtual anyways. So like, for us like there was, it was almost like we were just down the street because you there was nothing going on there. Right? (Jeremy: Yeah.) And here, we there was it was sort of opening but things were opening where the casinos, I'm not going there. So like, we kind of just got to like get used to like, where's the grocery store? Where are these things and there was no pull back because there was nothing to go back to. And it wasn't in a year later, when we finally met someone here who like she knows everybody. That's the key Jeremy, you got to find the person knows everybody, you got to get to that person. So for us, she was the facial salon owner. So she knew everybody and she is a connector like by nature, like that's just who she is. She's like, the more the merrier kind of person, you got to find that person because now we have a trainer that we love, we have friends and on fourth of July, we went to a barbecue like there's all these things. And so now when I go back to LA, I don't have that pool. Because yes, I miss everybody. And there's some things that I miss or some coffee I miss. And there's a burrito, that's just so good. (Lesley, Zach and Jeremy laughs) But (Jeremy: There's always a burrito.) There's always a burrito. But there's also this like, well, this is nice to visit, as (Jeremy: Yeah) opposed to gosh, I miss this. You know what I mean? (Zach: Yeah)

Jeremy Grater  

And that's that's how it was largely in the beginning. But yeah, I totally hear you it. It's one of those just matter of time, find the right people kind of thing.

Zach Tucker  

I just, I just had the kind of the same experience. I moved back to New York from Seattle in June of 2019. And then the pandemic hit like six months later. And, you know, I was kind of just figuring out the basics and everything. And I didn't have the community that I wanted there that I had in Seattle, until I went to I found this one gym where like the owner of the gym knows tons and tons and tons of people. And then I made a couple of friends at the gym and it just kind of spread from there. And then I went back to Seattle. What? Like two months ago, Jeremy? (Jeremy: Yeah yeah.) And like, you know, it was good to visit is good to see everyone. But like, I was like, "No, this isn't home anymore." (Lesley: Yeah) That it's not, this is not.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So how did you two, I guess I don't know, actually, how you two met? And then and then how has that, how has your relationship evolved now that you guys work together? Because it was like two friends who talked and share their feelings. And now you're, you know, there's like a, I mean, the podcast is somewhat of a business. Right. So like, you know, so how does that change things?

Zach Tucker  

So, so my, my wife and I moved to Seattle, in 2010. And we, we had she got pregnant shortly thereafter. So our wives actually met, they were part of a fit moms club. And they were going to do a race like so many weeks after giving birth to their kids. So we have, you know, two daughters that are very close in age. So they started hanging out a little bit and then they decided, well, you know, I think they shared about each other and they're like, "Oh, they're both really big Star Wars fans." (Lesley laughs) So we kind of got to get these guys together. So there was like, you know, breakfast and maybe a lunch and like, things like that. And, you know, I still remember it pretty vividly, you know, like, sitting down and like sizing him up and like looking him up and down. I mean, like, all right, I gotta do the manly thing and talk about sports and you know, like, what team played last night and this beer and like, you know, all in cars and like all that stuff that I'm really not interested in. And, you know, I think he was probably doing the same thing. And it just, you know, little, we chipped away at each other, you know, like little comments here and there, how you feeling, you know, and got more than an okay, occasionally and it kind of dove into just deeper, deeper conversations over the years. And I let Jeremy talked about like transitioning from like friends to work because like, I'm probably not the right one to speak about that. Because my full time job is like, really, really demanding. So Jeremy is the one who does most of the work. And like I just, you know ... on the interviews, he gives me crap about it a lot. But I let him talk about that. (Lesley laughs)

Jeremy Grater  

I mean, there's definitely an evolution, right, when when all of a sudden your business partners and most of the conversations are, here's the deadline, here's what we got to do, make sure you show up, don't be late, you know, what all that all this sort of stuff. And then, you know, the show is where we sort of are able to pull that curtain back a little bit. But but honestly, between, you know, he's got his thing going on, I've got my thing going on, there's 2000 miles between us, we don't have the opportunities that we had, as friends to just like, really check in as much. You know, I think that there have been a few times in the last year where, you know, things, things got really dark for either one of us, and we could call each other and say, "Hey, you know, this is not shelled, this is life. And then I need to, I need to, you know, share this or whatever." So there's still room for that, you know, obviously, the invitation I know is open both ways to continue doing that. But I know that a lot of what our show is, is sharing our struggle and sharing, you know, and I don't even know that we're really struggling as much anymore. We've come so far that I don't know that, that it's the same as it was in the beginning, I think there was a lot of complaining, right? There was a lot of just whining, this is hard. And I don't know how to do this. And and now we know how to do it. It's now it's you know, how do you start, you know, start the fire that keeps burning and keeps it going? And where do you find that motivation? How do you create that motivation so that you keep showing up every day? (Lesley: Yeah.) And so we do share those experiences within the show. And it's just the the great thing is there is no filter there. So it's, it's very real, it's very authentic. We're just exchanging what's working for us and what's not. But definitely, you know, when you put 2000 miles between people, it's going to be tough to keep that ...

Lesley Logan  

Well and you have families, unlike other jobs you do. This is not the only thing that you do. And I think that's really important for people to hear. Because we have a lot of people who have a job, and then they want to do something else or, or they have a project that they did with a friend. And so if you if you're not intentional about the friendship part. It's the same thing I work with my husband, we strive to be intentional about the marriage part. Otherwise, (Jeremy: Right) it's work all the time, right? Like it's (Jeremy: Yeah) just something that really can it's so easy in our society to do that. And I this one girlfriend that we will use each other's like work calendars to book coffee dates, but we'll go, "Okay, personal life first. And then we'll get to work." Like we, (Jeremy: Right, right.) you kind of have to label like, this is personal and now let's go into the prep. Okay, now let's work. And that can be difficult, because you may not want to rock the boat, you may not want to bother someone, but if people really care about you, and you say, "Hey, this is a life thing. Can I talk to you?" Most often people will go drop what they're doing to be there for you, even if it's for five minutes, or they'll say, "Can we call at me in 15 minutes? I got to do this thing." Like people do want to show up for other people if they know, I just said oftentimes they don't know because they're busy doing all the whirlwind that exists in their lives. And so it's not personal. It's not they're not thinking about you. So I think it is really important. I love that you guys say like, "Hey, I gotta talk right now, like, this is something that's really important." People need to know that that's what we have to do sometimes to get that support that we need.

Jeremy Grater  

And definitely reach out right like if that is something you need reach out, because like you said, no one's out there going, "Oh, I wonder how Jeremy is doing right now." Like they're, they're on their way to work. They're dropping the kids off at soccer. They're making getting dinner ready. They're doing it like they're not sitting there wondering how ... It might be a flash in their mind for a second. But, you know, I can't sit here and go, "Oh, nobody ever calls me that I'm so alone. This sucks." Like that's on me if I'm if I'm lonely and I need connection, I need to reach out and make that connection. And and it's the same, like you said, a million things going on but you have to make room for that stuff. Otherwise, you just keep stuffing that down and stuffing that down. And then you know it comes out and other ways that are not as productive.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. So as you guys are continuing on with the pod, like what are you most excited about with the podcast next? What conversations are you are you guys hoping to have with people so your listeners can hear them?

Zach Tucker  

Well, you know, I think we, we've had so many conversations and to be honest, like a lot of conversations are starting to repeat over each other. You know, like a conversation from 18 months ago is very similar to one we're having. We're having today. I'm really excited about you know, like pushing forward into more of the motivation standpoint and and really just exploring how to keep up with with these changes that we want to make or that I want to make in my own personal life. I struggle a lot with with time management, like I said, my job, my full time job is pretty demanding and Je... I know Jeremy shakes his head whenever I say that, because I literally come into these interviews really hot like or late. (Jeremy laughs) You know, so just like really figuring out that balance, you know, talking to people who can help you with that balance of, here's the thing, here's how you make time for yourself. And here's how you maximize that time for yourself while also taking care of everything else. Because like you said earlier, like it's a whirlwind. There's so many things going on. And it's about time management, it's about getting in all those things. And you said earlier, take care of yourself first. I want to I want to dive deeper into that, because we all know the right things to do. We all know kind of what works for us. And we're all unique individuals. And you know, creatine works for me, it doesn't work for everyone like, you know, something like that. But how do you fit that all in? And how do you do it in a way where you don't absolutely go crazy. That's what I'm really excited about.

Jeremy Grater  

And I think for me, we've we've been in a place now with the show where I can't remember the last time that we had to go find a guest, a lot of people come to us. And I want to I want to get back to like when we started it was nobody knew who we were, we didn't exist and we had to cold call and beg people to come on the show. (Lesley: Yeah.) And somehow we pulled off incredible guests. And that was like that was the spark for me that was like, "Oh, this this is great. We're gonna really do something with this." And now it's it's kind of become routine, we've gotten comfortable, you know, the the email comes in. Yeah, that fits, we can we can do something with that, that'll be a good, a good conversation. I want to get back to really exploring what I am doing. And find the people that can tell that story that can help me tell that story of how this works. We had someone on I think, I think her episode was posted a couple of weeks ago, but actually had a session with her yesterday talking about neuro linguistic programming. I had a session with her and it blew my mind. Like we because we did the interview before I actually had done the work. And I know this is relatively old modality or whatever. But it was new to me. And I was completely blown away by how in this, you know, 20 minutes or whatever it was like I went from like a nine on a pain scale to a what were we even talking about? (Lesley: Wow) ... just through this, like, basic Q&A and the way she said the things she said and the way I responded. And I was blown away. And I just was like, "I want more of that in my life. I want to (Lesley: Yeah) I want to be exploring more." And not just sort of doing my routine and sharing what's working. And oh, that's an interesting book. Let's talk about that. Like, I want to really dive in again, and get really curious about what's still out there that I haven't explored to share that.

Lesley Logan  

I 100% understand, because when when I started the podcast too, it was like, I had to seek out the guests. And I was I was always like surprised when certain people said yes. I'm like, (Jeremy: Yeah) "Thank God, think that's amazing." And then you do get to a point where like, there's people who are pitching you and like and that seems convenient. And they seem interesting. And for those of you listening, it's kind of like when you first became when first your business like you are to see yourself in the story. It's like you go out and you're trying to find all the clients and all of a sudden you start to get these referrals and like you get more referrals and like, it's good, but like none of these people, not none of them, but most of them don't light you up. Like you probably wouldn't pick those people again, you'd be like, well, they're fine. And so it's like getting back into that space where like, actually, I want to just be the one in charge and seeking out and asking the people and I find that really the most fun is like I don't mind people pitching at me at all. I get them all the time. But I am a lot more I like if I would I have sought out this person if I had known what they were doing. You know, and and that is the same thing with the clients that I coach and the people that were like, what I have, like, actually, like gone out and sought this person out. Because if not, then like, that's nice. And let's put them over here. And it's not a never. It's just a not a not right now.

Jeremy Grater  

Right. Right. Right. For sure.

Zach Tucker  

Yeah, yeah. And it's, like you said it's very, very convenient. And it's easy to fall into that that part of it. And, and I actually really loved you know, those those times where like, you know, when we were, Jeremy and I would sit down for half an hour and be like, "Okay, who do we want to talk to?" And we'd make that list. And then we you know, do all the cold calling and I'll never forget the day Jeremy texted me. He's like, "What are you doing next Thursday at 12:30?" I was like, "Nothing. Why?" And he's like, "Okay, we're talking to Sean T." And I was like, "What? Oh my God. So amazing." (Lesley: That's insane.) I absolutely love that feeling. And we haven't had as many of those those moments lately. (Jeremy: Yeah ...)

Lesley Logan  

Well, I'm the accountability queen. So I feel like, I feel like I need an update from you guys before the end of the year. Like, did you get more prioritization of your of your calendar Zach and Jeremy? Have you been like seeking out your like dream guests?

Jeremy Grater  

Right. Definitely. That's it's on my list for sure. (Zach: Yeah ...)

Lesley Logan  

All right ... We're gonna take a brief moment and we're gonna come back and find out your BE IT action items and where people can find you, follow you, listen to see if you guys do this things that you're saying you want. (Jeremy, Zach and Lesley laughs) No pressure.

Jeremy Grater  

You'll find out.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, so where where can people listen to your podcast, where you guys like to hang out on social media?

Jeremy Grater  

The podcast and pretty much everything you're gonna find this, the website thefitmess.com. And then we're on all the main social media things at The Fit Mess or sorry at @fitmessguys. So at @fitmessguys on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, whatever. We probably spend the most time I think, well we have a Facebook group, we spend a lot of time in there. And then otherwise, Instagram seems to get a lot of traction. So we hang out in those two places, primarily.

Lesley Logan  

Awesome. We will link all of that below. And you guys can listen to your pod on any place that podcasts (Jeremy: All the things.) are playing. Yeah ... Yeah. Okay. So next is the bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. You each can have as many as you want. So who wants to go first? (Jeremy: Go ahead Zach.)

Zach Tucker  

I can go first, I think the one thing that has made the biggest difference in my entire life. And I'll start high level will go a little deeper as a little bit deeper with some details. But is to really and I mentioned it earlier is questioning your own beliefs. So as you're going through whatever journey you're going through, you know, whatever you have learned as a child are taken in from somebody you know, and believe it wholeheartedly. It might not be true. And to really open yourself up to and question those truths. I know, for me, just as an example, you know, as a child, I was called fat, I was called ugly, I was called stupid, from multiple sources all over the place. And to this day, at 43 years old, with a relatively high IQ, a relatively trim body, you know, like, I still feel, I still feel fat and stupid. And those are, you know, truths that I believe, based on things that happened in my past. And, you know, that's just one example. But really, as you're going through, as you're reading things, as you write things off, as you say, that'll never work for me. Really, really question why you believe the way you believe something, and just be open to the fact that you might be wrong. And realizing that you're wrong, could change your entire perspective on something and take you in a direction that you never thought you could go.

Lesley Logan  

I like that a lot. I think that's a great intrinsic action item, you guys. What about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Grater  

It sounds big and kind of flaky but it really starts with the decision. And I don't mean, I'm going to, I'm going to do the workout and I'm going to start Monday. I mean, you really have to decide. My journey began because I had a knee injury. And my brother and the advice I was given was get on a bike. And I was complaining to my brother about it. And he said, "Well, dude, all you have to do is decide you're the weird guy who rides his bike to work every day." And I had ridden hadn't ridden a bike and you know, 20 years or whatever. And I was like, "Well, that's insane." And then I thought about it. And the way that he said at that time, it stuck with me. And I decided he's right. I'm the weird guy that rides his bike to work every day and a week I had a bike and I was biking to work every day. And it was literally making the decision and only like feeling I am that person. I don't have to become I am them today. I don't have the bike yet. That's it, that's just a minor hurdle on the way. But when you make that decision to become that person, it becomes really easy to as you'd like to be it till you see it to start taking those steps. But it has to be more than, "Oh, I gonna get to the gym. Oh, I got to eat better." But like, you have to decide, "I'm the person who eats better. I'm the person who goes to the gym." Like it just has, you just have to own it, you have to put that hat on, and it has to be a part of who you are. So I mean, I know that's kind of vague and woowoo we and I hope that's enough of an action. But it really is the thing that at every point in my life when I was the most scared I wasn't the most challenged. I didn't know what to do. When I just decided there's there's no with there's no wishy washy here, I just am this person now. That's when the biggest changes have happened. And I've been able to face those fears and overcome them.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, I do love that. I mean, it's not to me, it's not wishy washy, like you're giving people permission to make a decision for themselves. And, and before they're, before they are the thing. You know like and so I think that it's amazing. You guys, thank you so much. This has been a really fun conversation. I feel like we're colleagues even though we're not but also I think it's really fun for people to see behind the curtains of how things are done and what the thought process that people go through and then also how you got to where you are. So thank you for this. Y'all, how are you going to use these action items in your life? What were your takeaways from this podcast? Please tag @fitmessguys and the @be_it_pod with your takeaway. Share this with a friend and I know most of you have male in your life, so you can actually just share a podcast, share The Fit Mess Podcast with them as well while you're at this so you can share this with your girlfriends and that with your guy friends and have an amazing day. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'. 

Brad Crowell  

 It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.  

Lesley Logan  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.  

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can. 

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

A cosmic-focused convo that is your beginners guide to all things Astrology and Feng Shui. Step into the concepts behind what astrology truly is and the reasonings behind society’s obsession with the stars. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Lesley and Brad are going on tour! 
• Astrology signs don't define your behaviors.
• The perception of astrology in society.
• The difference between Feng Shui and astrology
• How the energies and stars can make sense
• What in your life are you becoming desensitized to? 

Episode References/Links:

• Join Brad and LL on tour
• The Source Book by Dr. Tara Swart
• Kate Wind Website
• Mom & Me Astrology Podcast

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the cosmic convo I have with Kate Wind in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and then listen to that one and then come back and join us. Okay, I really loved this interview. I just have to say this before we get into anything else because I was like, I really want to have her on but I don't want her, I don't want it to be like to woo and people like freak out. But like, I really felt like it. It made a lot of sense. If you haven't listened to it, you should like listen to it. Because it's a it's a precursor. It's definitely like, a pre 101 you know, and (Brad: Yeah) it makes me feel like I understand a few things. I started listening to her podcast with her mom. And yeah, I feel like I actually know some of the words. I'm still learning things. And it's all very interesting. It's all very fun. So anyways, Brad just got back from Philly. And he was visiting his grandfather and family for the holidays. I don't even know the last time I spent Thanksgiving with them, Babe, but you got to spend Thanksgiving with them.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, before we go on there, I had a comment about the conversation as well. You know, I'm I've never been a big fan of astronomy. Just kidding. Astronomy is the study of the stars. Astrology has always been weird. I always thought it was like, I don't know, just kind of that thing that you read in the newspaper that tells you that the world's coming to an end every single week. And I didn't know anything about Feng Shui either. And this was a really enlightening conversation for me because I I learned some of the concepts behind what astrology you know is and why there are charts and all this stuff. And I thought it was interesting to hear that the idea that it's like, I mean, she's got a psychology degree. (Lesley: Yeah) Right. It's this isn't like she just like read a couple books and became like a fairy who reads a crystal ball. Because in my head that's what other movies are with this kind of thing. The conversation wasn't like that at all it was it was really grounded. I thought so. I really enjoyed that. (Lesley: Good. Well ...) Anyway, my my my trip back home was really good. My grandfather is getting old and I really wanted to spend some time with him when it was possible to do that. So taking two weeks out of our crazy life was really important to me.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, and you know, we don't really do a lot for Thanksgiving around here anyway, so I think it was really good that you got to spend Thanksgiving. I'm not gonna be, I'm be really honest like because Claire came to visit me and that was so exciting. But I like nothing brought me more joy then going, "I don't have to cook any thing."

Brad Crowell  

Except for bacon.

Lesley Logan  

I'm not even do it. I didn't even do that. I'm like I ordered in. I got to be by myself until my family like I mean like it was glorious. I love it. Um I am also on my way to Dallas (Brad: Oh yeah.) for it's coming becoming an annual event. (Brad: Yeah) Erika Quest and I are doing a WeLL weekend, well it's our second WeLL weekend. But it's definitely ...

Brad Crowell  

You've been down there three times but (Lesley: Yeah) this is the second, (Lesley: Yeah, this is ...) December.

Lesley Logan  

With Erika Quest. (Brad: Yeah) And it's just, it's gonna be a lot of fun. I really enjoyed working with her, we're gonna do things like that, if you don't know who Erika Quest is, you gonna listen to her episode. It's probably in the teens. And, and when we come back, we quickly get ourselves situated, close the house up for the winter and hit the road (Brad: Yeah) where it's our first stop being in Dallas. Well, one of the first class we're gonna do, so I'll be back in Dallas teaching some workouts, and then Houston and then we're going to spend a night in Memphis and then a day in Nashville, sometime in Atlanta with our friend Joel. Well, actually be in Nashville with our friend Lauren Zoeller. You've heard her episode. (Brad: Yes ...) And it's me so much fun ...

Brad Crowell  

It's gonna be an incredible tour. (Lesley: Yeah. And the Greensboro.) Yeah, we're gonna be doing multiple classes in a few cities. But I think we have. Yeah, Dallas, Houston, Nashville, just outside of Atlanta, Greensboro, North Carolina, (Lesley: Cleveland) Cleveland, Ohio and then St. Louis. (Lesley: Yeah. So so fun.) So seven stops.

Lesley Logan  

Seven stops. (Brad: Yeah) Yeah. And so anyways, if you are wanting to join any of those cities sound like something fun. You want to work out with me onlinepilates.classes.com/tour is our third official tour.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And if you're in the Philly area and you want to hang we're going to like get together for coffee. You know, in the Philadelphia just north of Philadelphia. So

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And that and it's at night time that coffee might be a drink and and then ... (Brad: It might be a hot toddy.) And then Denver, yes loves of course, we're going to hang out and have lunch for you guys.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. Denver we're gonna have lunch on our drive thru.

Lesley Logan  

We have a wedding to be at (Brad: Yeah) on December 31. So this tour is hot like hit it hard before the holiday. (Brad: Yeah) A couple days a family, get our ... back home. Yeah. So super, I'm just so excited that people love this tour so much that we keep doing it because it really is fun. And I just saw the art for the tour. And I can't wait to see what the merch is because we all need a tour shirt. (Brad: Yeah, you do.) We all do. (Brad: Yeah, you do.) Now ...

Brad Crowell  

Anyway, onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. Okay. So instead of a question this week, we have a bold moment, right, Brad?

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we totally do. It's exciting. We love hearing from y'all. So if you ever have any bold moments, you know, we are very excited to share with your permission, of course. So

Lesley Logan  

I got permission from Alison. She's an Agency member of ours. And she wrote lots of stuff on my mind this week. But there's a channel we have an Agency by the way, it's called Blow My Mind. "First, LL's podcast episode on fall routines and mindset helped me realize that for as long as I can remember, I have not wanted to do anything from roughly October to December. And yet also for pretty much my whole life, I have resisted that because I believe I should push on no matter what. And this October has been no exception. So as I look ahead to November and my business goals, I'm considering what kind of actions will cultivate a sense of nurturing rather than effort. Also, I started reading The Source recommended in that podcast episode. And the first journal exercise helped me realize how disconnected I feel from pretty much everybody since moving. Even though I'm still in touch with wonderful people from Austin and I love my partner's family. I still feel alone. This is definitely something to journal more about." So I loved this moment because it's all inspired from the pod. (Brad: Yeah) And and that's the whole point of this whole podcast is to help people, help you listening, understand yourself more and (Brad: Yeah) figure out how you can be it till you see it and like you cannot be it till you see it if you're pushing through when your body is saying it slowed the fuck down. So and I have, I have been watching what Alison's been doing. And all of her goals have been things to help set her up for a Q1 where she can go off and hit the ground running so she's not doing nothing, but she's not pushing. She's actually like it's it feels a little bit more like polling like what is what do I need to do over here. So thank you, Alison, for letting us share this and also for sharing it with us because it y'all podcast is so much fun. I love doing it. I love the interviews I get to do. It's like a really fun thing. But hearing how it affects you makes it like is like the why behind doing it. Like it's the fuel for it all. So thank you for sharing this and if you want to share yours, you can DM us at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. You can send it into the team, any place that you want to do that and will help us share it with other people.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we want to celebrate your bold moment. (Lesley: Yes) So awesome. 

Okay, now let's talk about Kate Wind. As a second generation Astrologer, Tarot reader and Feng Shui consultant. Kate has been raised around the language of the stars. But it wasn't until after she pursued her degree in psychology, that she got fed up with the corporate life and doing a decade in the corporate life, that it started that she started to recognize the cycles of astrology in her own life and circle back around starting her own business. So she got out of the corporate world and started her own astrology business. She now works to bring these tools to people in a digestible manner. Kate works with one-on-one clients with both astrology and Feng Shui and reads Tarot for events and is a co host of the podcast called Mom & Me Astrology.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, it's a fun podcast. Can you just say how you read, reader before? Can you just say that again? I just want to hear how you said it.

Brad Crowell  

I don't have any idea (Lesley: Oh, okay.) what she talking about.

Lesley Logan  

At the top you said Tarot reader and I just thought that was really special. It's like tarjay, it's just Tarot. (Lesley laughs) (Brad: Oh) Yeah, you say it Tarot. And I was like, (Brad: Tarot reader) that is such a beautiful way of saying it and also a big (Brad: tarjay) a big light. Brad does not do I don't think he's ever had a Tarot reading before.

Brad Crowell  

I've definitely not had a Tarot reading. (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan  

I would have stopped you if you said (Brad laughs) Tarot. Okay, so this is a really fun conversation. This was really, I really wanted to have her on talking about this because I find what she does really interesting. I also it sounds like I've I've I know other astrologers and I haven't brought them I specifically brought her on because I love the way that she and her mom, look and use astrology as she mentioned, it's like, like can be like a therapy thing. And so I just find that to be really cool. Like, back during the US election, they had a whole episode on astrology and the election. And so they, they use it in an applicable sense as opposed to like a psychic sense. And I think that that's really unique. So one of the (Brad: Yeah) things that I loved, and this is, this is like super key as like your signs don't define your behaviors. So I say this, I'll just keep going with like, one of the things she talked about was like, talking about how your how you shouldn't use your sun sign as an excuse for behaviors. She like she, have you ever had this, like, "Oh, I'm a Virgo. So that's just who I am." Like, anytime you say (Brad: Totally) it's just how I am, and then you refer it to your sign. That's not how astrology was supposed to be used, or is actually used. It just just as much as like, one of my strength is WOO. And I ... I stayed in a relationship too long, because I was trying to win this person over. It doesn't mean like, I constantly put myself as a doormat because I'm trying to win others over. That would be like, I have choice there. I have I know who I know this about myself. (Brad: Yeah) And I know that I can do that. So I put boundaries in place. And so ...

Brad Crowell  

Well, we I mean, it's the same like we talk about strengths all the time, especially Strengths Finders, you heard us talk about that a lot. Every strength has a flip side, you can be empathetic, and it can be a benefit to you. That same empathy can be an anchor (Lesley: Yeah) for you, you know (Lesley: Yeah) on you. And so I think that in the same way, you know, why what how Astrology can define a possible character trait of yours, that character trait doesn't have to be negative.

Lesley Logan  

Right. Well, and also, it doesn't just go back to it's not an excuse for poor behavior, (Brad: Right) period. (Brad: Yeah) End of story. You don't get to be like, like a dick about something go that's just my like sun sign. Like, because (Brad: Yeah, or...) I'm a Taurus, I blow up at people. No, you have fire in you. But that doesn't exclude you, excuse you for like, blowing up on people just because you're upset.

Brad Crowell  

Or you're talking about being a doormat, you know, you don't necessarily like you could be prescribing yourself a negative situation, thinking that this is just the way it is because I'm X Y Z, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) because I'm a Cancer. You know

Lesley Logan  

Well, I mean, I lose things all the time. And yes, I am an Aquarius. And I put things in different places. That being said, I don't get to every time I lose something of ours and go, "Let's kind of have an Aquarius deal with it." Like no. (Brad: Right) Is he some people like you, I put things away on purpose, so that that are yours anyways. You know, so anyways, just to like sum that up, I really love that she brought this up, because I really do think a lot of times, we can use some qualities about ourselves or characteristics about ourselves that are unbecoming. And go, well, that's just who I am based on this sign ...

Brad Crowell  

And write it off, and then expect everyone to just be like, okay with it.

Lesley Logan  

And guess what, you know, you still are responsible for the actions that you take.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, totally. Yeah, you know, one thing, actually, I have a couple things. You know, like she said, you ask her how do people take you know perceive, perceive you when you explain to them what you do. And she said, people either have two reactions, they are really excited about it, or they avoid it. Because they don't really understand it, and I don't know what to do. And we went out to dinner with her and her partner. And like, and I think I avoided it. You know, I wasn't like ...

Lesley Logan  

Oh you did. I was like, "Wait, tell me more."

Brad Crowell  

Yeah ... It just kind of got like, kind of made me glassy eyed where I was like, I don't know what that means. Okay, moving right along. Right. And it was a you know, you know, that said, with that in mind. I, it was a an awesome dinner. We had an amazing time and the conversation was fantastic. But what I didn't understand at the time until the interview that you just had was that there is a difference ... while they go hand in hand, there's a difference between astrology and Feng Shui. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) And I didn't know that. I mean, I just heard a Feng Shui too, but like I don't actually know anything about Feng Shui. I just knew that like, it's a thing and people like you know, change ...

Lesley Logan  

My mom is going to call you up because my mom was so big on Feng Shui. She watches us on YouTube, shout out to mom, and she is going to teach you all the things and you're ended up with a crystal somewhere.

Brad Crowell  

I mean, I'm not opposed to that. But my point is I didn't know that there was a difference. Just kind of lumped it all into whatever. And I thought, you know, this conversation was still a merge of the two and I was trying to understand like, what's what and what's the other but I was, I was definitely drawn to the actionable steps that are possible with Feng Shui. I still don't really understand all the things with astrology. But I thought, I thought with the idea of like, there's a, you know, there's a clear timestamp in space and time when you were born. Okay, no problem. And when you were born, planets and things were in a specific space, and like they were, they were, where they were when you were born. Okay, totally get that. So I thought that was interesting. But then from there, there wasn't too much like, I didn't really understand action steps that could be taken from that. And then the conversation shifted over to Feng Shui where I did, where there was a lot of actionable steps. And I thought, okay, cool. So I was kind of learning about the practicality of Feng Shui, and how you can be setting yourself up for failure without even realizing it simply based on your environment. (Lesley: Yeah, well, I mean, and I think ...) Or you can be setting yourself up for success in that same environment.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think like, that's the like, there's, and some people might even be doing some Feng Shui things not even knowing about it, because (Brad: Yeah) it's doesn't, when you actually look at it, it's it kind of as some of it is a little more common sense. Like, I wouldn't have known that the the money like that the girl's picture was in the wrong corner. But the girls had our picture that she talked about the back is turned towards her (Brad: Right) and your your clients are women, and they're not buying for you, like put that picture away. Right. Like ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, the most practical application of Feng Shui, from my experience growing up is you laugh about it, but the lipstick on the mirror in the bathroom in the morning of like, you got this, right, the positive messaging of like, you're a good person. And like the concept of a mantra, you wake up and you have this thing that you repeat to yourself, and you start the day, the day is amazing. And, you know, and I never really thought that there's anything weird about any of that, because I understand the story we tell ourselves is how we're going to experience the day. Right? So if I'm willing to embrace that idea, why would I not be willing to embrace these ideas of like, the way you've positioned the room can actually have an effect on your mindset.

Lesley Logan  

Well, and so I love that you brought that up. Because when you as you're talking earlier, and you're like, I didn't know about this, the I didn't put it together with the stars. Y'all you're most many people who might be like a little bit like, "I don't know about astrology. I don't know about this Feng Shui stuff. I don't know about this." But then you go to Machu Picchu or you go to the the pyramids, or you go to the temples of Cambodia (Brad: Temples of Angkor with us. Yeah.) How do you think these things got created and exactly where they are? Okay. I think we talked about this in, you know, when we were in Cambodia, some of these temples were built at the exact same time as other things halfway across the world were being built. And like, the only thing I can think of is like, well, what was going on at that time? Because there wasn't cell phones, there wasn't email, there wasn't someone chartering a boat, and like telling people this we're building. It's po... it had to been what was going on in the stars, because they could you know what I mean, like, there's just these energies things. So I, I know, it can sound like triple woo, when you talk about energies and stars and all and the Feng Shui. But some of it just makes a lot of sense.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. And I thought that there was, I was, you know, what, also, I thought was really interesting was, she grew up in this environment, or, you know, parents are both astrologers, and her, she was fielding phone calls of like, you know, my triple Moon is jumping backflips over the rainbows of Mars, you know, like, as a 10 year old, and I don't, I don't speak that language. So I didn't really understand. And I was kind of making fun of it right there. And I hope she doesn't give me too much shit for that. But, you know, that's kind of what it sounds like, to me. And I'm like, "Ah, I don't really get it." But I also don't, you know, like, when she started to get nerdy about it, she was like, here's the relationship of the planets and the stars and the things and how they affect each other. And then when the, you know, as the Earth rotates, and we move around the sun, and all this stuff, and the position that we are in that, you know, it affects things and I was like, "Oh, get it, got it. Got that. That's kind of cool." You know, and her psychology degree, when she was looking like at her own life, experiencing her corporate life that she was living, you know, having speaking the language that she grew up with, and then applying the, you know, her knowledge from going to school, you know, allows her a really interesting get a bridge, like she speaks a language that I could connect with, because, you know, I can relate more to psychology that I can't do astrology, and she is connecting the dots there and I thought that was really helpful for me really revealing.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. Well, basically, Kate, we love you and the way that you look at these things because it's approachable (Brad: Yeah) and easily to understand. And that's why I'd have her on. 

Brad Crowell  

All right, so finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted items can we take away from your conversation with Kate Wind?

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so she had one kind of one BE IT action. I mean, I really love this because it's, you should be doing this annually, if not more often, but she says, take a look at your home. What is your home saying? And if your home is an apartment, or ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. There's a little more on the Feng Shui than the astrology side.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so look at the artwork, look at the pictures, are they current, any dead trees or plants, anything broken, remove the dead energy.

Brad Crowell  

Clutter. I mean, I'm, I'm such a culprit of this where like, things just build up on my desk behind, you know, my zoom camera. And then all of a sudden, I turn around, and it's been like, a month since I've moved things around on my desk. And it's just a pile of stuff. You know.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. And then she and this is like, also, I thought this was a really actionable thing. She says, take note of where you walk around and curse. Where are you spilling your four letter words? Because I think sometimes people go, "Oh, it's fine. No, my plants are fine, or actually I don't have a lot of things. I'm a very clean, like, I have like a clean look." Or whatever you call that minimalist look. And it's like, okay, but then are you constantly like tripping on a table? Or are you like, are you avoiding like, do you even sit in your living room, like, what go in and do an inventory around how you use your house, and if it is actually bringing you any joy? Or like what the energy is (Brad: Yeah) because, you know, we do move things around a lot. Because we that's how we are. And that's kind of how it but it's really easy. Like I'm looking over at this like shelf and over here. And I don't even know why those things are on there. And if we chose for them to be on there, and maybe we should move those things around. Because maybe like, maybe they belong to somewhere else.

Brad Crowell  

These are my decorating skills, Babe.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. I clearly, you know, take over on that. But anyways, I thought this is really cool. And I'm wondering, Brad, if there's if there's anything in your spaces that you're wanting to like, take a look at.

Brad Crowell  

So I'm not going to answer that question. No, I'm just kidding. Well, I thought I really connected to the idea of dead trees and plants. Because as you all know, I've been really excited about cactuses. And I never gave a shit about that before, for the first time in my life, like I actually walk around and water them and check on them and make sure that they're, you know, doing well. And, and like talk to them, which is weird, but I do. And, you know, so the I certainly wouldn't want a you know, if something has died. You don't leave it there. Seems pretty straightforward to me. But maybe you do because it's not important to you. But what I think the idea is, whether you think it's important to you or not, it is affecting you. Right? Whether you realize it or not, it is affecting you. Right. And you almost become I become desensitized to it. Until there is a boiling point. I remember I was thinking about this when I was listening to the interview. I remember at my old job, I had a desk and the desk was in a room with other people. And you know, unsurprisingly, my desk started to get clutter, right. And I didn't realize it but you know. And then over a period of time, it was clutter and clutter, clutter. And then I had like an epically bad day, like so bad that I wanted to throw my laptop, break things, scream, yell, and all this stuff. And I couldn't do any of that. But I literally, I just took my arms and I just went flew and I switched everything off my desk on the floor. And everyone in the office was like, "What just happened?" Right. And I was because I just needed space, I needed ... you know, all of it was there and ... And I just remember throughout basically throwing stuff against the wall, right? And and I don't know why, but it was very relieving for me. It was really weird for everyone else in the room. I created a lot of tension in that public outburst that I didn't scream and yell. But suddenly my desk was clean and it allowed me to go like ... right, so I didn't even realize all of that clutter was affecting me. But it was.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, it's like that having the tabs open on your computer. (Brad: Same thing.) It's the same thing. It's got things running in the background. And so I like that I um, I'm actually super excited because we're gonna be back in time for our New Year's day anniversary like (Brad: Yeah) and our thing that we have, we try to do every year at New Year's and what I'm hoping happens is we redo the closets. (Brad: Yeah) It's a little hard to do every single room in the house in one day but I believe in us and the closets and the kitchen drawers I think. So follow up with us y'all on January 2nd and ask us (Brad: How we did?) how we did on removing room like moving some energies and also where all cuz I definitely curse in the closet because I can't find things (Brad: Sure) and they're missing. (Brad: Sure) And I then I buy them again, because I forgot that I already own them or something similar. Like, "Why do I have four hot pink pair of pants?" Oh, because I couldn't find the other three. And I was like, "Oh, look at these. I already have that." So anyways, I thought this was really special. Let us know how this conversation worked for you. What parts of it were intriguing, which parts were like, oh, and it makes you understand, which part you're like, not into that. I'm happy to hear and also what you're going to remove or move around in your place like how are you doing? (Brad: Yeah) Take a picture or show it, like share you got any create a reel, create a reel of you like change the energy in your house. (Brad: Yeah, that's a great idea.) And tag ... (Brad: Tag us. Tag Kate.) And tag the @be_it_pod, tag Kate. She'll love it. (Brad: Yeah) And also take a listen, if this was really interesting to you, because I would love to have her back. But you don't have to wait for that you can actually go to Mom & Me Astrology and listen to their podcast. They have an episode every week, and I find them all very fascinating. So anyways, I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell  

And, I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan  

Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so so grateful to have you here and so until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan  

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

 It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli. 

Lesley Logan  

 Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.  

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can.

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Should you be worried about Mercurys retrograde? Is your sun sign affecting your choices? What do you really need to know about astrology? All the questions you have about Feng Shui and astrogloy are answered as you learn how to use astrology to shape your life instead of using it as a excuse for behaviors. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The depth of astrology and how does it works
• What are your power positions? 
• How to create power positions in your home
• Why your sun signs don’t define your behaviors
• Where to direct your focus about retrogrades
• Working with Mercury Retrograde
• Tarot readings are just a tool 
• The ongoing process of Feng Shui

Episode References/Links:

• Kate Wind Website
• Mom & Me Astrology Podcast

Guest Bio:

Born and raised in Las Vegas, Kate had an unusual upbringing. In her parent’s search for a strong educational foundation in Las Vegas, the City of Sin, she was enrolled in Catholic School. While the education was superb, Kate was not a perfect fit for the school. She related better to the unconventional side of thinking, and eventually found her niche as the unofficial “counselor” of her class.

After graduating from UNLV with a BA in psychology, she trekked into the corporate world of hotel spas and chased the money and title of success.

At the top of her career, she started relating back to the cycles of astrology and her lifetime goal of helping others one-on-one. Kate uses her expertise in astrology, Tarot, and Feng Shui to provide insightful and powerful consultations. She is professional and provides guidance in a comfortable atmosphere. Kate has had the honor of reading and partnering with some of Las Vegas' most notable hotels such as The Cosmopolitan, The Palms, The Wynn, and MGM Skylofts, and brand names such as American Eagle, Michael Kors, Dior and Porsche. 

​In addition to her one-on-one astrology and Feng Shui clients, Kate reads the Tarot for events, conferences, and parties. She can be found in several magazines, such as The Vegas Voice and Live Love Spa giving us insight on Feng Shui and upcoming astrology predictions.

Her latest accomplishments have been the creation and implementation of the Mom & Me Astrology Podcast and Mom & Me Astrology Academy, both aimed at teaching and sharing stories related to Astrology and Feng Shui.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

All right, where my astrology loving peeps at. This one's for you. And if you're like, "Ah I don't know." If you hear that someone's an astrologer or does tarot readings or just Feng Shui you like want to walk away, I really do, please do me the massive favor of just listening to this because we actually go in with, with a much more explanatory way of how do these things affect your life. So not scary predictions, but just like an information that you can take action and I'm all about arming you with the tools to be it till you see it. So I wanted to bring up my friend Kate Wind, she also has a podcast, you'll hear about it towards the end, and have her explain how your signs can assist you in knowing what steps to take next, and how to how to go through some things. And we also talked about the energy of your home. And my loves being it till you see it is not just about like consuming information and taking action, and then going home. Your home is such an important space for being it till you see it. And so she goes into great detail more than I've ever known about Feng Shui. And so I'm really excited for you to hear all this and be armed with some information. And I really do hope that you take that and her BE IT action steps and use them and then let us know how you use them. And then if you're at all intrigued, you know, contact her find find someone like her because you you're going to want this information in your life about who you are and what was going on when you were born to help you navigate what's going on next in your world. All right, so here's Kate Wind. Let's get going. I am like giddy for you to hear all this information because it's a lot of fun for me.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It babes. I'm really excited because I can, I know we met in person somewhere. And then we actually hung out. Oh, we met at a roller skating event. And then we hung out. Just two... just the four of us, actually, your partner, my husband and I. And I really just think that you're the coolest woman. So y'all, I'm bringing on Kate Wind that's who we have as a guest today because, well, I think we've all had questions about astrology and Feng Shui. And sometimes we say things like, "Damn mercury and retrograde." And like, "Does that, what does that mean?" And it's everything retrograde and mercury's fault. Like, maybe we're just blaming the wrong, the wrong planet, right. So I wanted to bring on Kate because I think in being it till you see it, there are some things you can dabble in, in the astrology world, in the Feng Shui world, and I know you're like, "Lesley's is gonna get woowoo." It's gonna be a one woo but it's going to be a hard woo. And I think I think Kate is going to just enlighten us in some ways that are going to make us go, "Oh, maybe I should be looking into astrology or Feng Shui. So Kate, can you tell everyone who you are? And how you got to do what you're doing?

Kate Wind  

Absolutely. So first, thank you so much for having me on today. Second, I love that. It's not gonna be woowoo just one big woo. But I appreciate you saying that because I'm an astrologer and Feng Shui consultant. And I love to bring these tools to people in a very digestible manner. So often, when you start talking about these things, people, they have two reactions when they meet me. One is, "Oh, my gosh, I love everything that you do." Or the second one, they kind of almost back away, right? Or they just don't even respond to what I said I do. So how I got into it is I'm a second generation Astrologer and Tarot reader and Fung Shui consultant. And I was raised with the language. But it wasn't until five years ago, that I had an aha moment. And I decided I'm in the wrong industry. I can't continue doing the corporate grind, like I've been doing, and I need to launch my own business.

Lesley Logan  

So that's interesting, because you're second generation, I think a lot of people can resonate with maybe resisting a journey that they (Kate: Yeah) were pretty much born for, like you, you said it, you were like, you know, the language. Your parents, were speaking this all around you all the time. It was just kind of like how you grew up. Some kids grow up with their parents going to work nine to five, and you grew up with your parents reading Tarot cards.

Kate Wind  

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And that is a great point. And I don't think at the time that I knew that I was going against it. But I also thought I want to prove to myself that I can go out there and do something on my own. So I went to UNLV. I got my bachelor's degree in Psychology. I knew I wanted to help people. And that ended me up in the spa industry. Right? I was a spa director for 12 something years, and that definitely is a form of helping people. It's the the, you know, the therapy that happens to the body, the massages as the facials, but that wake up call. It was so intense. I was saying I need to help people on a deeper level. And I think too, when we talked about that, woo, when it comes to astrology, and Feng Shui like these are, these are tools that we can use that are just as good as therapy.

Lesley Logan  

Can we talk about how they're tools? Because I think (Kate: Yeah) that's where people are, you said it, some people are like, "Oh my God, I love that. I like I (Kate: Yeah) have all the decks. Here's the decks that I have." And they're like, (Kate: Yeah) and then other people are like, "Hmm, um okay. I'm gonna just step over. Why ..." (Kate: Absolutely) So can we talk about what what these tools are just on a basic level? And then maybe we can find out like, why do people want to like step away? Do they think you're a witch?

Kate Wind  

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes, unfortunately. So you know with the astrology, in order to be able to write a horoscope column in the back of shape or vanity, we had to boil astrology down to the 12 signs, which our sun signs. Right? Just like me, and you would say, okay, we're an Aquarius, or someone else's Pisces. And sometimes that's hard to believe. How can we put all of people into 12 simple categories, and that sounds very unrealistic. And it's not to bash on sun sign, astrology, it has its place. But I don't think a lot of people understand the depth of astrology. And that as an astrologer, I'm looking at all of your planets. I'm looking at what signs all of the planets sitting in your chart. I'm looking at what houses they sit in. I'm looking at the aspects that they make to each other, how they communicate to each other. And I start telling you things about you based on your chart that some people sit back and say, "I've been in therapy for two years, and I haven't received this type of validation." Right? They say they feel seen. They say, "Oh, you've put into words how I felt my entire life."

Lesley Logan  

Okay, this is brilliant, because this is why, this is why I want to bring you on, because I think in being it until we see it, we have to accept ourselves. And I think sometimes we think there's something wrong with us. But (Kate: Yeah) actually what that thing is that everyone is going, why do they do it like that? That's a little your uniqueness. It's (Kate: Yeah) based on your birth chart, which is more than your sun sign. And it's like, if you kind of went in with that uniqueness, it probably would take you to where you want to go.

Kate Wind  

Yes. And so many people think astrology or tarot, for example, like, "Oh, I don't want you to tell me when I'm going to die." Okay, that's not what I'm doing. (Lesley and Kate laughs) I'm not doing that. 

Lesley Logan  

Maybe that's why they're scared and walking away. They're like, "Oh, my God, she knows the end."

Kate Wind  

Yes. Or they think I'm going to tell them something horrible. And like I and I understand, readers have gotten a bad rap. Because clearly there are readers out there that like to talk about bad news. Right? You have to find just like a therapist, you have to find a reader that you feel comfortable with, that you resonate with their language. And I can guarantee you I do not talk about I don't talk about death, I don't talk about and if we talk about things that maybe aren't as fun to talk about. Right? I give you very practical examples of how I've seen clients live through it. So you're not getting off the phone saying, "I'm afraid to leave my house today." (Lesley: Right). That's not what it's about. That'd be a complete disservice, I think and very unethical as well you know to do.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Yeah, I think that is I think that is thank you for pointing that out. And I it's like anything, you know, because as a Pilates instructor, people like, "Oh, I tried that once. That didn't work for me." It's like, well, you probably just had the wrong teacher for you, or you picked the wrong type of Pilates. Like there's so many, there's not just one way of anything, anywhere. (Kate: Correct) So, so there's that. So as a great tool for really figuring ourselves out, which I think is cool, and really helping us navigate steps we should take. That's kind of like what you do on that side. So Feng Shui, how is that a tool that people can use?

Kate Wind  

Okay, so for the Feng Shui, a lot of times people say, "Oh, yeah, I have a red door, or oh, my bed faces a certain direction." Right. Don't get me wrong, those are great. But Feng Shui is so much more than that. Okay? And if you've ever created a vision board, right, where you cut out the little magazine pieces, and you put it on some construction paper, that's telling me that you believe in the power of seeing something putting it on your wall, seening it every day, and that it's going to manifest. So how would we not operate if we believe in that, that our home is an extension of our energy? And what we put on our walls, through artwork, through color, through placement, is asking the universe for more of those things.

Lesley Logan  

Cool. So that's like, that's like, there's your your putting things in place around your home is not as visual evidence, but also things that could open up what is to come what you want to come in what you want to bring into your life. So you could be (Kate: Yes) you could be putting things in your house in a way that is like blocking the things you want versus like just making some changes. It's not just the red door.

Kate Wind  

Yes. And I can give some great examples, because storytelling sometimes is the most fun. But even if you're listening, you're thinking, "Oh, I've never created a vision board because I don't I don't believe in that." I want to give one other example. Okay, (Lesley: Yeah) if you've ever been on a diet, and so you say, "You know what, okay, starting Monday, I'm starting my diet." So over the weekend, you go through your pantry, you throw out all the candies, you hide the flour, whatever it is, you stock the fridge with fruits and vegetables, waters, whatever, you're changing your environment in order to get a result. And I think that's really what Feng Shui comes down too. We can sometimes become overwhelmed within ourselves, how do I make a change? Okay, well change your environment. Sometimes it's not just the mindset. So I know I've read a very cute story about you. Where you manifested Brad? (Lesley: Yeah) Right. With the two coffee cups. (Lesley: Yeah) Okay, so often I'm in someone's home and they have one reclining chair in the living room. So if anyone was to come over, where would they sit? Are men in people's homes where they only make one side of the bed? They only have one pillow, one nightstand. Okay, well, where would this other person belong in your life? To me, you're telling the universe I like one person sleeping in this bed because it's not even made for two. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah.) Examples like that is what I consider the power of working with your home to create the reality.

Lesley Logan  

So I love this because even for people who are trying to make room for something in their in goals, like in their business where they want to have a new job or bring something in, if you don't have create if you don't create space in your calendar. (Kate: Yeah) You're not going to be able to bring in that new side hustle that thing that you want to do next. So you it's like we think of Feng Shui as like, these particular things like I, when I think of Feng Shui, I never will forget my mom getting my first apartment. She's like, "Your toilet is in your relationships corner."

Kate Wind  

Yeah, yeah. That's very real.

Lesley Logan  

She's like, "But it's okay because we put this thing over here. This is gonna do." (Kate: Yeah) But it's also it's also just like setting yourself up, setting things up to bring in what you want more of and looking around to see what things are you actually not welcoming in by putting on like, I will, I will remember when I first got my own place after I was homeless and single. I had wanted to create as much room as possible in my studio apartment, of course. So I pushed the bed up against the corner. (Kate: Okay) So guess what, y'all let me tell you that lasted two weeks because the moment someone has stayed a night. I was like, "How do we get out of bed to go to bathroom?" Like what ... (Kate and Lesley laughs) What is happening here?

Kate Wind  

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I mean, so many things I want to say to that, yes, beds in the corners, like that reminds me of like a child's room, or even a prison cell. And that's the thing is during a consultation with the client, I'm not going to come in and accuse them of those things. But I'm gonna say, "What's happened since you put your bed in the corner?" Or "What do you think would happen if we move the bed out of the corner and put you in the power position?" Right. So it's simple things like that. And I do not want to discredit the bagua of course, the different elements. I do all that as well. Sometimes that's not as fun storytelling, though, when we're talking about what I'm doing. Right. And ...

Lesley Logan  

Brad's gonna want to know what a bagua is. He's definitely ... aware that what a ...

Kate Wind  

Yes, so it's like a floor plan that we put over the home, based on the front door of the home. And there's different corners. So there's a corner and everyone's home from money, for relationships, for your fame and reputation, for your cash flow, for your helpful people. And again, it's all based off of the front door. But I wanted to tell a quick story about you had mentioned about the business because we gave a lot of examples about relationships. And maybe people are listening and saying, "I have a relationship. Those don't apply to me." Right? (Lesley: Yeah) But I was working with a client who she was self employed, and she catered almost exclusively to women. And in her financial corner, she had an image of a woman's back. Okay, and it was beautiful. It was but it was an outline, but it's clearly the back of a woman. And I said, "Do you feel like women have been turning their back on you?" In the financial corner, right? We have a woman turning away, and giving just the back side. And she said, "I've loved this painting since I was little I've had this for years." I said, "What if we just do an experiment and take it down for two weeks? Put it in your garage, put it somewhere to take it down." She said, "Okay, I'll do that." Within a couple of days, right? She was texting me. She's like, "I just sold three of my highest level classes. I can't believe this." Right. But we buy artwork, because we're attracted to it. Right? Maybe she was going through a divorce. And she was like, "I feel connected with that solo woman in that image." But as well as Americans, right, we buy things and we put in our home and we kind of stay like, "You're gonna stay there until I move." Right?

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's actually really funny is when I like to clean up the house, every beginning of every year like to move things around. I like I was we're currently sitting here I redid this table, mostly for a photo shoot, but now I'm like, well, I'm gonna keep it because this is like, all of my crystals are here these things right. And we redesigned the living room. I always like the live room was like, I don't know, I don't know, if I, I don't know what we put, you know, we moved in, we put everything in there. And for the so funny for a photoshoot, I was like, well, this living room is not on brand with the photos we have to do. So we just bought this rug randomly. And I just put it in the podcast room because I hate the carpet. And when I come out to get ready for the shoot, they took the carpet that I put in the podcast room and they moved it over the couch. And then we rolled the rug up and put on different rugs from the other rooms. And I was like, "Oh, well the living room is staying like this every year." (Kate: Yeah. Okay.) Because it feels so spacious. It feels so rich. It feels like warm and like you want to sit in it. And and so like, I think, you know, I used it my mom's will listen to this and she would change the house in the middle of night and with her Feng Shui and all the things. (Kate: Yeah) And my dad did flip over a couch because the couch moved. (Kate: Okay) Walking in the dark. (Kate: I get it.) But I think it's important to move things around. It's in my writing like we're moving the energy around so if you're like wanting to change things up in your life, like moving things around in your house can help do that.

Kate Wind  

Yeah, and that's a very simple example too. Like, think of a desk that's been sitting in the carpet for so long and it think how hard it is to move it that initial inch because it's really dug its its weight if you will into the carpet or it leaves those little marks. And so it's even a very, very simple exercise where might say take something that's been in your house that's been sitting there for a long time and shift it by two inches. Because some people are resistant to change. I love that you're saying I'm moving myself around. I love to move my stuff around too. But some people do not like that. And so if you're listening saying that sounds great, but I'm, I'm not on board for that. (Lesley: Yeah) Try just shifting your stuff by a few inches in while you're doing it set the intention of unsticking yourself in whatever situation that might be in your relationship, in a job that you don't like and a friendship that isn't a two way street anymore. Whatever it is.

Lesley Logan  

This is so cool. That's so what a great like little action step you could take. It's just like just and have the and have the intention around what you're trying to unstick with that. Cool. Okay. So I love that. Probably come back to this but I wanted to, for for the people who are with the tarot cards and with the astrology. I'm wondering, are there certain signs? And this is maybe like a broad question, but like, are there certain signs that like it's easier for them to show up more confidently to to take action? Or is every sign capable of doing that? It's just that them recognizing their strengths and powers.

Kate Wind  

I operate under the idea that your sun sign is not doing you a disservice. However, yes, people like fire signs, for example, right? We would think oh, Aries, Leo, Sagittarius might show up more confidently. But if you're a Le... an Aries sun, and you have Venus, the planet of love and beauty and softness, right sitting on your sun, it's going to take away some of that power, it's going to soften some of that fire even. So I don't think that there is a way to just say, oh, you know, boil it down to those 12 signs.

Lesley Logan  

Right. It's like, because you'll hear things like, oh, there have been more presidents who have an Aquarius sign than anything else. And I'm like, well, that's amazing. (Kate: I know, I know.) But it's also kind of hilarious, because it's just like, there's so much more than just your sun sign. And also, I love that you pointed out that it's not here to do a disservice to you. And I think that's really cool. Because I, I often hear well, I, it has to be like this, because I'm a Virgo, or whatever. And ...

Kate Wind  

I know people like to blame their astrology sign for their behavior. And sometimes it's just funny. And I can totally appreciate the humor for that. But sometimes I think people are serious that they think that they have to be a certain way because of their sign.

Lesley Logan  

And that's not that they have a control around that they are something they can do.

Kate Wind  

Yeah. Especially if you're just basing off of that sun sign.

Lesley Logan  

So what are their, what other parts of the signs should people be paying attention to? They should they all do their birth chart? And like, what would that reveal and that your birth? Your chart doesn't change over time, right? You would look at it at different times in your life, but it stays the same.

Kate Wind  

Correct. So there's two different ways in astrology one, you could have a natal birth chart reading. So we would just look at where the planets were when you were born. And those don't change, right, we can't go back and change what the planets look like in 1985. So that gives insight into lifelong themes. I think people have become a little bit more familiar with their big three, so their son, their moon and their rising sign, and that absolutely starts coloring, you know the picture. But I think having a natal birth, birth chart reading, you understand the degrees, you understand what the degrees mean, you understand the aspects. And again, that can give you insight into those lifelong themes. And sometimes people we... you know, we question ourselves, we think, oh, you know, I'm different or I'm weird. And leaning into it and hearing someone validate. No, that's in your chart. That's how you're supposed to be acting. That's how you react to things. That is what you're good at. Those are situations that you will continue and continue and continue to come up against in your life. It's like, oh, my God, so much like validity that you're getting from someone.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. This is so this is so interesting, because there's like I said, sun rising and moon. And I think, like, I lived in LA for 14 years. And I and it's I say it as a joke, but actually, I've heard other podcasters that I listened to who live in LA like, when you come to LA they just immediately give you a drop of understanding astrology in a very ... (Kate: Yes, yes.) Well, you just pick up on it. (Kate: Yeah.) So I was like, so I know the sun and the rising I did not actually know about the moon. So so that's interesting. So you had the you have the natal chart and then there's what is the other chart then?

Kate Wind  

So then I want to be more predictive. So we're base... we're basing it off of your natal chart where were those planets when you were born? But now we're saying where are the planets right now as we're speaking and how do they aspect that planets when you're born? (Lesley: Oh.) So we might say oh, Saturn is approaching your sun, that happens for all of us every seven years or so not at the exact time because it's going to depend on where Saturn was and where the sun was when you were born. And then we can talk about linking years. So I can say, "Okay, you're about to go through this energy. But before we talk about this energy, tell me what was going on in 1993." Right, and I'll have the client go down kind of memory lane, those are great examples. You're going to be going through that energy again. Now, maybe there's 28 years difference between that time, so it's not gonna happen the exact same way. But there's comfortability. And knowing I've been here before, I survived it. Nothing horrible happened. Right. And now here we are going through it again.

Lesley Logan  

That is actually really cool stuff. Because instead of you go thinking like something new is happening to you, you actually can go, you can actually have this confidence. Like, "Oh, I have the data, I survived that." (Kate: Right. Exactly.) I'm also much older (Kate: Yeah) and I've experienced it so I can bring that with me. And you don't have to make it, it doesn't have to feel so foreign or unknown.

Kate Wind  

Yes, exactly. And there will be energies where I will say, this is once in a lifetime energy, or you have never been through this or, you know, some people will never go through this in their life. I do prefernce those things, right to walk through it. But I love to take notes from my clients. So I have great stories of how people have lived it out. Of course, I'm never divulging people's names, right. It's all very confidential, but I'll just say I've seen clients, this has happened to them, or that has happened to them. So these are some examples of how you might see it play out in your life.

Lesley Logan  

So here's what's so amazing is that and this is why I'm glad it's it was a one woo because it really is because in some ways, you're like a therapist. You're just using a different science, then the psychology or you know, there's like a couple others out there. You're you're you're using a historical form of like, predictions, like a different word, that word I don't want to use, but like you're looking at things and you're going okay, here's how other people have done it. Here's how we've done it, we could take this data, and then you based on here's your strengths, and here's what you were, here's what you were born with, can go and navigate it. It's really, like supportive. And I think I remember growing up and people like reading their, "Oh, my astrology said, I'm an ... blah, blah, blah. This week, it was like something bad."

Kate Wind  

I know. I know. I read them sometimes. And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness."

Lesley Logan  

Okay, so then let's talk about ... so you mentioned that there's some things that I could be going through based on when I was born, and that time happening, and like you wouldn't like the seven year thing. (Kate: Sure.) But then there's the thing that like literally makes the news and Mercury's in retrograde, like it makes the news and everyone's afraid of like, (Kate: Yeah, I know.) fax machine, I can't believe anyone has a fax machine still. Reason it's not working. So that shouldn't be but like, what, what is that and what should people like? How should people approach that? But so it's not like, "Ah this was the worst several weeks of my life."

Kate Wind  

Yes. Okay. It's so funny because all of the planets retrograde. (Lesley: Right.) Pluto retrograde, Saturn retrogrades, Jupiter, you name it, they all retrograde. I don't know why Mercury has taken the hit for all the planets retrograding it's like the redheaded stepchild of the planets or something I don't know, right? It's it, it gets a lot of heat for for it. And there's some validity in it for sure. But Mercury retrogrades is two to three times a year. So we are so familiar with that. Think if you take your age times two or three, that's how many times you've dealt with Mercury retrograde in your life. That's pretty crazy. I would say something kind of interesting, though. If you've seen your birth chart, most of them will make a note of what planets were in retrograde status when you were born. And some people that were born with under a Mercury retrograde which could be rather common because it retrogrades two to three times a year. Sometimes clients say they feel more compatible when Mercury is in retrograde status, because that's what they were born under. That's what they know. (Lesley: Yeah.) That's what was built into their chart.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, that makes so much sense to me. Because like, I remember being in a yoga class and it was after it was like a totally rainy stormy night the night before and he was like how many of you didn't sleep well, because the rain and I looked around I was like, oh my God, like slept like a baby. (Kate: Right. Yeah.) Like bring on this storm. (Kate: Yeah, absolutely.) Okay, that that makes a lot of sense. And yes, it doesn't get out. I have to, I have a funny Mercury story. So my engagement ring. When Brad called my jewelry designer app to say, "Hey, I want to propose to Lesley." She's like, "Oh, don't worry, give me five weeks." (Kate: Okay) And he goes, "Okay. Like that's you don't need any ..." He's like she was like, "I already know. I got the size and what she wants, like, just give me five weeks." (Kate: Oh my God.) So he calls her five weeks later and he goes, "Hey, I haven't heard from you like, how's everything going?" She's like, "It's not right. I don't like it. I shouldn't have started during retrograde. I'm gonna do another one." (Kate: Okay. Yeah.) I saw that one. And it's true, if not the one for me.

Kate Wind  

Yeah. Well and so there's a positive to Mercury retrograde, right. We want to blame it on everything, but because it's in retrograde, R E, right? I say it, it really supports doing anything that begins with R E, rethink, reconsider, redesign, reorganize, relaunch, like, if we can work with the energy, then it will be more supportive. (Lesley: Okay, that's cool.) Right. So I understand what the ring thing that probably was a setback. You know, Brad could have been kind of disappointed. Well, oh, I had reservations for this time or whatever, based on this five week thing. But you're jewel... jewelers. Wow. Is this that called? (Lesley: Jeweler) Jeweler. Your jeweler was probably like, "I'm going to redesign it." And I'm hoping that she was more satisfied with the end result.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, yeah. I'm a 72. 

Kate Wind  

Yeah, okay. Right, but reworking it, redesigning it. And that's a way to be more compatible with the energy.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, that I think that's really cool, because I think it is more actionable that way. (Kate: Yeah) So instead of going, oh, you know, I've my friend and I would go for a run. He's like, "Retrograde starting right now. And I've got this thing going on and da da da." And it's like, if I had known that I could, there could be like, "Oh, during this time, instead of doing these things, I'm gonna focus my energy more around this." (Kate: Absolutely) And that, I mean, for those people who listen to the show that they love, an action that they can take, and, and I always say like action is the antidote to fear, right? It brings clarity. And so if you can take action instead of like, going, "Oh, just wait for this to stop messing with my email and my computer." And ...

Kate Wind  

Yeah, yeah. Well, if especially yeah, when you hear the next retrogrades coming. If you've been thinking about redesigning your website, to rework your menus, save it, save it for Mercury retrograde, because that's the time that you should be rethinking.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, are there any other times in the year that we should be thinking about other stuff? Is there a different retrograde that we're thinking of the wrong way?

Kate Wind  

Um, oh my gosh, well, so because I had mentioned all planets retrograde. Oh, my gosh, that's such a loaded question I'm trying to think where I want to go with that. (Lesley and Kate laughs) Um, you know what, I might switch it a little bit on you. But I might suggest that we should be watching right now. Pluto. (Lesley: Okay) Okay, Pluto just went direct here, August 8, I'm sorry October 8. So here, just a couple you know, pretty recently, and Pluto also retrogrades every year, not a lot of people talk about Pluto retrograde. But the reason why it's very significant right now is because since it's moving direct, that means that it's headed straight for the sign of Aquarius. Now, we haven't seen Pluto change signs since 2008. So we'll walk through a little exercise here. Pluto moved into Capricorn in 2008. Pluto can be rather disruptive. We're talking very different from Mercury at this point, right? (Lesley: Okay) So those the before and after. It's the scene, kind of the guts of the situation. Its power, its its money. And it moved into Capricorn, which rules are structural systems of our society. So our government, our laws, or rules. So we go back to 2008 when Pluto moved into Capricorn, of course, most people already know what I'm about to say. But right, we saw the recession, we saw the housing crisis, we saw a disruption in a lot of the policies and procedures that we thought were safe, or sound that are they'll always be there. This is how it will always be. And now as we're speaking, we're seeing the book end to Pluto and Capricorn. And I talk to clients about this as well, when they go through long cycles. Okay, what happened when this energy moved in, in this year? Oh, we're in the book end here. And oh, my gosh, people have such aha moments. Oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? It's like the exact same storyline. Right? How are we doing this? 30 years later?

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. This is so okay. That's interesting. So then as it's from the book end. (Kate: Yeah) And it's about to switch signs. (Kate: Correct) Is this going to be a good thing? Like, do we want it to get out of it? Or is or is Aquarius going to like set it all on fire?

Kate Wind  

I know. I'm excited for it to move into Aquarius. Again, I love Aquarian energy. I am an Aquarius sun, right. (Lesley: Yeah) I love Aquarius too. Yes. Aquarius is for the people. You know, I do think we are seeing a shift. Right. That there I do think yes, people are getting more rich. I understand, I'm not taking that away. But we have platforms now where we can communicate as normal, just everyday working people. We have a larger voice because of platforms because of TikTok because of different things where we can get together and kind of rally together or share our insight quicker than we've ever been able to do it before. So I do think that Aquarius will accentuate that. And we will see some of the power being taken away from a lot of the stuff that was created since 2008.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, well, that's cool. (Kate: Yeah) I think that's can be. I think there's, there's good sides to that. And this is like, so here's what's so funny is like, you can use astrology for your own personal stuff. And then you can look at it as like a global energy of what's happening. And doesn't that tie us all so much more together that like, we're not just like individual people like running around, not knowing what to do like the whole ... We're all going through this together with our own stuff.

Kate Wind  

Correct. Yes. That was like, even when the pandemic went off, we had Pluto and Saturn meeting up for the first time in the sign of Capricorn, you know, and astrologers were saying, like, something big is gonna happen in 2020, like, something's big is gonna happen when these come together. Well, of course, I was concerned about what's going to happen on a worldly level, but also, I was looking at people's charts. Okay, where is it happening in the person's chart. And, you know, everyone was affected differently, by what we've been through the past two years, some people made a lot of money off of it. Some people it hit really hard. Well, because that conjunction that we were all dealing with on a much lev... much larger level was also personally affecting each of the birth charts based on where those planets were when you were born. And that's how you can take a very wide conjunction or like, not conjunction, but like, you know, a wide theme, and then say, well, how did some people benefit and some people didn't. Some people came out ahead, and some people went into depression.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So this is interesting, because it is true, like, I will look back at like, you know, how Brad night shift in the last couple of years. And then you can look at another situation with someone and that was not what happened. And it can be easy to feel a little bit guilty, like, you know, and I'm not saying I don't feel guilty at all, but like, it is interesting to see, like, some of that stuff is out of everyone's control. Some of that was just like the, when they say that's how the stars aligned. It's really how the stars aligned. (Kate: Truly, truly.) And I also, I think it's has to be very interesting for you to be able to see that something is coming, but not have the details of all the things just know that like, you're, you're like something big is about to happen, and you're kind of just waiting to see what that thing is. How do you wait?

Kate Wind  

I know. I know. Honestly, that is the hard part. Because I mean, I am a human as well. Right? Like, I have money in the stock market like all those normal things. Right? That will affect me as well. So yeah, the waiting part is, is kind of hard for sure. (Lesley: Yeah) But like even like the Pluto moving into Aquarius, like, you know, sometimes when we're in it, it's not as easy to see, you know, and we the last time we saw Pluto move into Aquarius was like the US was one or two years old. (Lesley: Wow) So it's like I could read history books about what was going on during that time. But we've (Lesley: Yeah) had so much technology happen, we, you know, we've evolved so much that it can't be the exact same storyline, but I'm sure that there will be a lot of similarities between what happened.

Lesley Logan  

So here's what's really interesting in that there's a common theme where there's something coming up, and then you look back at the history of that thing, whether is from the stars and the signs moving based on the worldly events. But also you said, with our own thing, we can look back, okay, what what has happened to you in 2008? How is that so it's gonna be similar energy. (Kate: Yes) And when we do those things, it gives us a data that shows us science, and we can have more confidence and move into those next things. And so I think, when I ask you like, how do you wait? It sounds like, you wait, but you also are still taking action, you're still living life. And like, in being it until we see it, it's not about like waiting until we become the thing. It's like, getting the information that we can glean from something. (Kate: Yes) And then taking action with that information.

Kate Wind  

Yeah. And I will give clients like positive ways of living out the energies. Or I'll say, "Hey, be proactive about it. I'm telling you these things." For example, like there's an energy I talked about where I'm saying you might be overly concerned about fire safety. Now, this is a very weird example. I don't talk about this often, right? But I'm telling a client that well, I would hope that they would be proactive and say, "Maybe I should check the smoke alarms in my house. Maybe I should see what the expiration date is on my fire extinguisher. Maybe I'm going to fix the fireplace that hasn't worked in six months." Those are great. So now you've heard this information. Now you can take proactive steps instead of sitting around saying, "Oh, no is my house gonna catch on fire?" (Lesley: Yes) Right.

Lesley Logan  

Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is all so great. Okay. So really quick, because I feel like we didn't even touch like we didn't really make it (Kate: I know.) back on the surface of any of these things. (Kate: I know.) But for people who are like, "Okay, what do what, what do I need to do? Do I need to go do my natal chart? Do I need a Tarot reading?" When would it, can be really quick, like, how often should you be getting a Tarot reading? (Kate: Yeah, absolutely.) How would you get that one.

Kate Wind  

Yeah, so I think every three to six months is a healthy kind of schedule to be on. I see clients more often than that and I see clients less often than that. So, but I do think that it is just a tool, just like seeing a therapist, right. At some point, that therapist is going to say, how do you feel about this? Like, what do you think? Like I, we can't use it as a crutch. So I don't think you know, every couple of weeks, sometimes it can become a little overkill, right? Where I have to say, let's put some responsibility on ourselves as well. Not just these tools. (Lesley: Yeah) So every three to six months, I think is healthy. If you've never had an astrology chart, I would start with a natal birth chart reading. And even if you are a little verse already in astrology, like I said, everyone talk speaks a little bit differently. Everyone has different language that they bring to the table. So you know, if you're looking to get a six to 12 month outlook, what energies do I have coming in the next six to 12 months, then we can work with more of the predictive side of the chart.

Lesley Logan  

That's cool. So if you're, if you're getting ready to maybe switch careers, and you have a goal that perhaps in the next six to 12 months, you could do a more predictive charts, you can kind of balance out the energies and really kind of know what to expect. (Kate: Yes) That's so cool. (Kate: Yeah) I love it. I think it's amazing. With Feng Shui (Kate: Yeah) is that something that is ongoing? Is it something you can like well, I mean, this sounds redundant, because we've talked about earlier, you do, you do it, you do it one time. And that's it. Are you kind of re Feng Shui everyone's well. Correct.

Kate Wind  

Yeah, I know, because I've had people say,oh I've had a Feng Shui console before. Okay, that's like saying, if you've had a haircut before, it is an ongoing process, right? Because we're always changing. And our house is always changing, whether we're moving a new animal in, or we're our, we bought a bunch of new clothes that were on sale, and now our closets packed, or something breaks. And so we're not using it, the homes constantly changing. So that's what I love about the consults that I offer that I teach you things, I don't just say, move this here, do this, do that. I want you to understand why we're doing it. I want to make sure that you relate to what I think the artwork or the position of the furniture is doing or manifesting in your life. And so I leave you with those tools to then take a more discriminative look at your house to say what is my house saying. And that gets really wild, right is where you have a financial breakthrough. And then something is happening in your financial corner in your home, where, where a tree branch breaks off of a big tree, within 24 hours of you having some sort of, you know, financial breakthrough. It's, it's so weird, right? And I have hundreds of stories about how either the home speaks and then something happens in our life or something happens in our life, and then the home has to react.

Lesley Logan  

That this is so so this I think more people have experienced in something like that without even knowing it. Because they'll, you know, like my, my girlfriend, she she texts me this morning. She's like, she's like, "Well, something was going on because I I've never done this by spilt coffee all over my desk, and in trying to clean it up. I fell down the stairs." And like, (Kate: Oh my gosh. Yeah.) she's okay, she's fine. (Kate: Okay.) I feel like I had some sort of karmic breakthrough. Something just happened. But like, it's, I think it's very fascinating because we could, you know, the tree could fall and go, that's really sad for them. But then if they was in their financial corner, they had a windfall of some kind like wasn't that bad.

Kate Wind  

Exactly, exactly. Yes. The home speaks to us, as well understanding the bagua. Or even just taking a more again, like look at your life. Okay, what kind of breakthrough did I have? Especially if there's something that broke in the house? Or you bring something nicer into the home? Okay, and now I now I have a change in my life. It's all it's all related.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Oh, my goodness, I want to talk to you forever. And I just had this like vision of like, I'm gonna have to have you back for like an annual like, update on like, what's, (Kate: Yes, yeah.) something, but (Kate: Sure) we're gonna take a quick break, and then we're gonna let people know where they can work with you, get their natal chart or Feng Shui work done.

All right, Kate. So where do people, where do you hang out? Where do people find you? How can they work with you?

Kate Wind  

Absolutely. So um, I have a website, which is www.thekatewind.com. And then I'm also on Instagram at @the_katewind. And then I also run a podcast with my mom called Mom and Me Astrology.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, that's so fun. Do you guys just talk about what's happening in the world starts at that time.

Kate Wind  

Yeah. So we launch a weekly podcast and like, right now we're talking about the eclipse seasons. But, you know, back during the election, we were looking at the potential president's charts. We absolutely talk about, you know what's going on in the world. So we talk about news headlines. Okay, where does this news headline fall into the astrology piece? Again, it's just a great tool if anyone's trying to learn more about astrology, like, how, how does it all connect? But then, of course, many of the episodes, we've run through all 12 of the signs, okay, Mercury's retrograde. How does it affect all the 12 signs Mars retrograde? How's it affecting all 12 of the signs?

Lesley Logan  

Okay, well, you're going on my downloads right now. (Kate: Okay) Everyone, I just have to say, like, when I was talking with Kate, one of the first time we met, this is something that she and her mom, or you did mention this, like you guys look at different states or countries and their charts, and (Kate: Yes) explains a lot about the energy that's happening over there. And I think, I think that's really cool information to have. So as people interact with those things they can have that they can be armed with that information. So check out her podcast. Okay, before I let you go. (Kate: Yes) BE IT action items, so how can like bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted that people can take to be it till they see it? How would that work with what you've got for us?

Kate Wind  

Absolutely. I would say take a look at your home. And what is your home saying? I want you to look at the artwork, the pictures that are on your wall? Are they current? Are they updated? Are they sad? Are they scary? I want what is on your walls to look abundant. I don't want them to be little dead, frail trees. If you have an orchid plant that someone gave you for your birthday two years ago, and it doesn't have any more flowers on it. Like I'm giving you permission to throw it away. Anything that's broken in your home, get rid of that energy, because it is all reflective. It all takes a toll on our physical lives. So remove the dead energy. If there's if you're listening, you're thinking, "I don't have any dead energy in in my house." I want you to do this. I want you to go around your house. I want you to take note of where you cuss. What area of your home brings you so much frustration that you're spilling those four letter words. Okay? Maybe that's a rug that you always trip over the corner because it's not taped down. Maybe it's a drawer that you can't open because you have six spatulas in there. Why do we need six spatulas? Right? I want to take notes of those plays. And that's where I want you to start. Because those are creating hiccups in your space that then change your energy. Right? So you just tripped over the rug. And now your husband walks into the room. Who are you shaking that out on? Right. Now, you're in a crappy mood. And husband tries to tell you something right. And you're giving your sourmouth attitude or something. So I, discover where you cuss in your home.

Lesley Logan  

It such a great ... (Kate: Right) Because it is true. I love that you thought about people like okay, maybe you don't, maybe you don't have any debt plants are really good at giving you those things. Well then where are you cussing. And Claire, I know you're listening. She's been tripping a lot lately. (Kate: Oh no) I think you might want to see where that is happening in your apartment.

Kate Wind  

Yes. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. There, oh my God. Yeah. That's fascinating. That's fascinating.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, yeah. Well, thank you for that. I think this is very timely because I always do it on New Years. I always go through all the drawers and all the clothes and all the shoes because I'm like, "I don't want to take this stuff into the next year with me." (Kate: Yeah) So y'all how are you going to use these tips in your life? You want to tag @the_katewind, the @be_it_pod. Let us know. Share with a friend if you are, you're intrigued, if we've piqued your interest, if you're feeling like seen that you're, you are who you are based on like all these important things the planet that makes you contact her and let us know how this affected you. We want to hear about it and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli. 

Lesley Logan  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing. 

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can.

Brad Crowell  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Are you using your strengths to maximize your genius? Not sure how? Listen to the episode diving into the Gallup Strengths Finder test, aligning your heart, and the wealth of support that comes from coaching.

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In this episode you will learn about:

• The faulty logic in leading by example
• Should you gift your clients at the holidays
• Important to understand how to use your strengths positives and negatives.
• The heart set has to be right for the mindset to be right 
• The two questions to lead you to a transformed life 
• Find a coach to push you past your limiting beliefs 

Episode References/Links:

• Strength Finder 2.0

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co hosts in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the leading convo I have with Kevin Kepple in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Because, I mean, like Kevin and I kind of nerded out a little bit. Like I got, I got really excited when I heard. I was like, I was like, "Oh, I love this, let's go."

Brad Crowell  

It was very reminiscent of a conversation that we had many years ago.

Lesley Logan  

I know, I know. But we're married, so I couldn't Netflix ... (Brad and Lesley laughs) (Brad: Strengths Finder and chill.) No, we could not. We could not. And ...

Brad Crowell  

And those of you who don't know what we're referencing, you're gonna have to go back and listen to last episode where Lesley told a very fun story about how Lesley and I initially connected.

Lesley Logan  

And if Kevin has a partner who's listened to this, I don't mean it like that.

Brad Crowell  

Well, I'll tell you what I felt right out of the gate. I thought it was so awesome that he pointed out something that I knew innately. But I had never really verbalized. He said leadership is not a position, it's an action. And leadership is different than management. Right? Because, and then he also threw in there like, like, like, in his corporate experience, he was like, he's like, "Yeah, you know, how I became the quote unquote, leader, I became a good salesperson. And I started doing really good." And they were like, "Well, I guess you'll be promoted to the head of your department." And he's like, "That doesn't make me a good leader. That just makes me a good salesperson. What the hell?"

Lesley Logan  

But every company does ... (Brad: They all fuckin' do this.) They all do this. (Brad: Does make any sense.) It's like, haven't you ever heard if you can't do it, like those who like, what's the cliche, I'm just blanking now, but like (Brad: They do teach. Those who can't do, teach.) Yeah, those who can't do teach. It's like (Brad: Yeah) your best coaches on the football field we're not the quarterbacks. They were the people who maybe we're a quarterback at some point. But like, they weren't the star, my favorite coaches, my favorite coach and running was not a number one runner, he was actually number three runner if you know cross country at all. You have an individual number that you do in some races, but in other races of the team, qualifying the top five runners who come across the finish line, their cumulative scores is what wins. So you could have someone who's a fastest person and wins the race. And then but if the next four people are slower than the average of the other teams, first five, you lose. So all five people matter. Right? (Brad: Right) My best coach was like the number three runner. And when he got promoted to be the vice principal, that's fine for him. He gave us his number one runner who won states and all these things. He was a dick. He was the worst coach in the world. He just goes run faster. And I'm like, (Brad: The worst.) the worst, the worst. I quit running because of him, because he was the worst.

Brad Crowell  

Well, I that's annoying. And I totally get that. We also had a guy who was like, he had played pro when I was in high school, what pro soccer and and then he became the coach and I quit playing soccer because he sucked at life.

Lesley Logan  

So for all of you who are promoting leaders in this world? (Brad: Well ... interesting.) It's just because you're the best at what you do does that make you a leader.

Brad Crowell  

Well, I think I think it's interesting, right? Because the idea is lead by example. That's another phrase we've all heard lead by example, right? And so the assumption is, well, if you're doing it, you must be great it, you must be able to be the leader, because you can lead by example, you can tell them what you do. But that still I don't think that's what qualifies leadership, right? And he said, leadership, leaders inspire, leaders they ask, they don't tell. And then he said, for all you moms out there, you're the best possible leaders that the world has ever offered. I just thought it was really amazing. There were so many little takeaways like management is not is management is simply telling people what to do. Right. I mean, it was like, anyway, we just like completely jump straight in. But we had a couple things we wanted to say before we get started.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Like if you're listening to this on the actual date comes out, Happy Thanksgiving. (Brad: Yeah, for those who here in the States.) ... in the States, and you know what, we actually did this in a newsletter in September, we sent out a gratitude just because because right now everyone's very grateful. But I want to be grateful for people all the time. But just in case you have not heard thank you for being you and thank you for listening to this. We are so grateful for you like we truly are and everything we really created on the guests we have on or because of the questions you give us. (Brad: Yeah) The things that you say that resonate. So thank you. (Brad: Yeah) Thank you so much. (Brad: And thanks for listening.) Yes. And this is the first Thanksgiving, Brad and I are not spending together. I don't think we've ever missed a Thanksgiving together.

Brad Crowell  

That's true. I don't think I realized that.

Lesley Logan  

We've missed a many and anniversary and Valentine's Day. (Brad: Every Valentine's Day for like one.) Yeah, because of the pandemic really kept us together. But this Thanksgiving you're in Philly.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. So I'm home with my family. My grandpa's getting up there. And I wanted to spend some time with him. And I only get to see him usually, like, once a year. And so I decided to go home for a couple weeks ... 

Lesley Logan  

And because of the pandemic. We even that one time a year we really didn't get to have ... And then 2020 yeah, 21 I got sick. And so we were a lot ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah ... and then you drove by. (Lesley: Yeah) And that's it. We saw a moved way fitter

Lesley Logan  

From the front yard as far away as possible. Anyways, yeah, so you're there, and I'm here. My don't don't don't cry for me. My dad and brother are here. And they're, they're gonna make sure that I probably go to the movies with them. And then my bestie Claire, you remember her from several recaps my slingshot friend, she's actually coming out here and I share this with you because on Saturday of this week, in the US it is shop small Saturday. So I have a tradition that I started last year where I go to all the small businesses and I shop small. And even if I don't buy anything from them, I post about them. Because it's really all about what you do in your community and like being there and being supportive of all of them. So that's really fun. And by the way, if you wanted to shop small, hi, that's us. This weekend, we actually have two things going on. So depending on what you need and what you want. We've got on onlinepilatesclasses.com. We do have it's a Black Friday, Cyber Monday sale, it's really a holiday sale, it started started yesterday. It's going to ...

Brad Crowell  

It could start at the beginning of November. I mean, who knows at this point, right?

Lesley Logan  

Well, I well, I refuse. Like the fact that I started before Thanksgiving is a little bit against my like values and like I hated seeing people in line on Thanksgiving Day at stores to buy TVs but since I'm online, and you you can do this from like sneaking out to the bathroom. On onlinepilatesclasses.com, we do have 50% off of legacy workouts and workshops from my teachers and myself. And also if you buy the mat flashcards as gifts for yourself or for friends, there's a discount on those.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, you can get up to 40% off on the mat flashcards ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so give the gift of Pilates here to yourself and others. On Profitable Pilates, we have up to 50% off of courses. So if you're buying courses that are have my face or Brad's face on it, 50% off, if you have you buy a course with another person's face on it 30% off and do not worry, your purchase is still going to support the course creators and to the Cupcake Girls Organization. (Brad: Right) We still honor those those charities with your purchase.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, that's awesome. So those, those will were those will only be available through the Black Friday, Cyber Monday holiday. So don't sit on this.

Lesley Logan  

If you're listening to this in December or a random day in the future. Well, you can go and get those things, regular price.

Brad Crowell  

Get on the newsletter. Get on the newsletter so you can find out about future ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we just you know, so thank you for listening. Still, the gratitude is there.

Brad Crowell  

All right. Well, we had an audience question this week. And I thought it was really it's actually a question we've gotten multiple times in the past, because inside of our fitness business coaching group, Agency. We have a lot of people who have clients, everyone has clients in there. And we often have this conversation circle. Do you give your clients gifts during the holiday? (Lesley: Yeah) And if so, how, why, what what's the what's your thinking behind that?

Lesley Logan  

Well, I think like it really just depends on the business and depends like it. Here's the thing. I love that you asked this question, all of you. And I know a lot of people listening have side hustles. And these clients are like, I got these gifts. Really, truly like, people are so grateful that you give them what you give, like you change their life, whatever it is that you are doing, you do change their life, and you add so much value that is already a gift. However, and I know that they often give you gifts, and so that makes you feel this reciprocity to give them something. (Brad: Sure) It depends, it really has to depend on you. If you've got a family to feed, if you are just starting your business out. They do not your clients are not actually expecting a gift from you. And they're not going, "Oh, Brad didn't give me a gift this year." (Brad: It's not my list.) Not buying, not buying that packet ... (Brad: Never buying again.) They don't do that. So in the very beginning,

Brad Crowell  

It's kind of like the holiday cards.

Lesley Logan  

We get holiday cards every year and we never send one. (Brad: No) And no one has taken us off the holiday card list. In fact, people still ask me, "What's your address? What's your address?" I'm like, "fucking in it." Like I want to see your house. I can't wait to see your kid and your dog and all those things. It's really beautiful. But the point is made no one is taking us off the list just because we didn't send a card of ourself we just we don't do that. We still have 26 teams Christmas cards signed and sealed without stamps on them in a drawer. (Brad: In a drawer) We tried everyone we've really tried. Maybe it was only 20 I think are 2020 There were like 2020. And that's the irony is that they're like, have a lit have a lit 2020. And we didn't send it. Anyway ...

Brad Crowell  

We should put those in the mail. (Lesley: Oh my God that would be so mean.)

Lesley Logan  

So to go back to this question, I'm not... as online business owner, we don't have any gifts that we are doing for anyone, particularly and even for our, our team. And that's because they live all over the world and we try to honor them on their birthday versus the holiday. The other thing is like (Brad: Well for your clients.) for my clients, when I had an in person client business, the first several years, I did do something nice. Like I either got them some Pilates socks, or I made some granola things or whatever, it was something really small, and ideally cost effective. And hopefully something that was like felt personal enough that they wouldn't just regift it.

Brad Crowell  

I think one year we gave them like we had made a bunch of candles. (Lesley: Yes) So and those candles had like, you know, fun sayings that we wrote up on them or whatever.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, yeah, we did some fun stuff and, and they're personalized as best we can. But as my clientele got bigger, that became a cost I just really couldn't (Brad: Yeah) do. And then also one year, we just got really busy and it didn't do it. And no one seemed to notice that I didn't do it. So then what I did was actually just do a handwritten thank you card. (Brad: Yeah) It was very personalized, handwritten thank you card on holiday stationery. And people love that they gave me a card as a gift. And it usually had money in it, which was so nice. And then I gave them a card back. And honestly, they just were so grateful that I wrote something personal to them. So do I give clients get holidays? If you are loved language is gift giving, then by all means, like, (Brad: Yeah, do it up.) do it up. If it's not, if it's like my love language is words of affirmation and touch. So thank you card handwritten was something personally complimenting them, and hugging them at the holidays, really was something that felt special to me, because I didn't hug them every time they came in. I didn't give them cards every time they came in. So is there a special, but maybe, maybe your love language is acts of service. And so you can go do something charitable and their honor, like, so ...

Brad Crowell  

Here's what I don't recommend, I don't recommend giving them a free session, (Lesley: No) or free class or anything like that. Your clients want to support you. Okay. And if you are giving them back the thing that they're paying for, it's going to devalue it. And they're going to be like, well, I pay you for these, what would make more sense is find a local restaurant with like, small business restaurant that you love, and give them a gift certificate if you really want to, but give them something like that. Or a local coffee shop or something that makes sense to them. If giving gifts is your love language.

Lesley Logan  

And also like if you collaborate with small businesses and I was just talking to in a coaching call with one of our members and I actually gave her like suggested like, "Sir, I don't know why this is coming up for you. But like, is there like a local, like, farming gardening place that maybe can do seeds? Because your new studio owner for this area?" And she's like, "Oh my God, I can do like things for growing with us and like give everyone a seed packet." Right. Like, so ...

Brad Crowell  

... I can give one of the cactuses, you know.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, you can. Well, you already are, you're gonna leave a cactus on someone's porch. But like the other thing you can do, y'all is connect with these other small businesses. And maybe you don't pay for the full massage. But you get to pay for the cost of the massage like the like, whatever, it costs a massage place. So then you can get something that's affordable to you. But ...

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, you're building relationships too. (Lesley: building relationships) You know you're supporting a local businesses.

Lesley Logan  

And the massage place get potentially gets all these clients. (Brad: Yeah) So you bought them a gift certificate ...

Brad Crowell  

I love that idea actually especially a massage place. (Lesley: Yeah) Or like a nail's place (Lesley: a nail's place) ... if you know they do the nails or something like that.

Lesley Logan  

Can be a local maker shop. Like, if you collaborate with them, there may be instead of you paying for the full price of the thing, you can pay for the cost of the thing so that they're not losing any money. It's in your price range and and you're supporting each other's local business, because maybe they do the same thing for you. And they're like, can I buy my all of my people a mat class? Okay, a cost a mat class part for the teacher is this much. I can do this. So the answer is very muddled. I can tell you that right now. And what I would just say is do not ...

Brad Crowell  

... give gifts sometimes.

Lesley Logan  

I don't think you should feel obligated to (Brad: Yeah) give a gift ever. And I think that it should really resonate with what you're doing. And I love that you said don't do this, don't give away your service for free as the gift. (Brad: Right) And, and and it should feel fun and not like an obligation otherwise you're not going to enjoy it. So, (Brad: Yeah) Yeah.

Brad Crowell  

Well, I think that that wraps up that question, a great question.

Lesley Logan  

Is that pun intended as a wrapping it up?

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, we're gonna wrap it up in a bow. We just wrapped it in a bow. All right stick around. We'll be right back. 

All right. Let's tallk about Kevin Kepple. From experience with various types of leadership, with leaders I mean, Kevin realized that he was most energized by helping leaders maximize their genius through aligning their hearts. He's now a master coach, Gallup certified strengths coach, and a podcast, host of Unlock Your Freedom, where he inspires leaders to become more. Kevin loves helping people figure out whatever it is that slowing them down, stopping them or standing in their way and does this through the mastermind group he leads and of course, his podcast. This was a really I let he's got a dry sense of humor. I enjoyed that. But what I left really a lot about how much I was like, "Oh, I like this guy. I want to I want to hang out with him. And just talking about Strengths Finder."

Lesley Logan  

He's in Dallas, so you can do that. You can, I think you can probably just do that. I think Kevin will be listening, because he knows we do these recaps. And (Brad: Oh fun) so yeah ...

Brad Crowell  

He's in Dallas. (Lesley: He is in Dallas. Yep.) We're coming through Kevin. (Lesley: Yeah.) That's a call.

Lesley Logan  

Coming on strong, Kevin ... I've been talking about I love because, you know, it's my turn. Um, so I he says how he said, how do you stay in your zone? And he actually talked about how strengths have a positive and a negative side, which I think is really important. I think it's, I think everything has that. Right. I think we forget even our yoga teacher was like, you can't have love without hate can't have peace without war. We're like, everything has its equal and opposite. And he use these words, are we in the balcony? Are we in the basement? (Lesley: Yeah) And I ...

Brad Crowell  

Well before you go like the positive in the negative. I think that there is an assumption that we're making, because it's a StrengthsFinder test. They tell you your strength is x, but just because that's your strength. That strength still has the negative side. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah, yeah. (Lesley: Well, and I ...) So the balcony in the basement.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So he, he says like, he was talking about, like, there's a place where are you in the balcony? Like, are you like, overseen and like like, there's beautiful views on the balcony. Right? (Brad: Oh yeah) Or are you in the basement, which is like where you're like, kind of leaning into the negative side of it. (Brad: Yeah) So he gave an example, a maximized balcony is faster with mastery wants to be around it, it's healthy to be, to healthy to get to elite levels. And maximize a basement is noodling with a thing just to make it a little bit better, just like a little bit, like just like a little professionisti situation. (Brad: Right) And so ...

Brad Crowell  

I know there's another like that I've often I've personally experienced with, with someone who was very close to me for a long time, where empathy, empathy can be an incredible strength. And I, I saw empathy used to really relate to people and connect with them and make them feel included and help them you know, come out of their shell and whatever. I also saw that same strength of empathy, bring this person down, where they were experiencing the same sadness, heartbreak, whatever, and it was a crushing, crushing them. Right. So empathy has both the balcony and the basement, right. So same thing with maximizer. Same thing with literally every single strength that they outline is strengths finders. So it's important to understand how it can be used in the positive and also in the negative way. Because you might be, you know, you might be being that perfectionist as a maximizer. I'm a maximizer. Right. So I I definitely don't think I struggle with perfectionism as it were. But I know, (Lesley: No) I find myself actually having these weird, like, like, I feel like I've got a window into OCD ...

Lesley Logan  

You know what you're noodling as though, like you will try to get the system ready and prepared before the thing is even happening, like, you'll, you'll kind of start to do the thing that someone else could be doing. (Brad: Yeah) And so just, yeah, like, just to get it done. And so I think that that's interesting. And I think it's been really fun, because we could just go up here in the basement right now. You know, I mean, we I've talked about this before, one of my strengths is woo, and the end like, he brought up woo, like, woo, people are like, they gotta meet the next person. I don't really have that problem. Like, let's go because I am an introverted woo person, but I did stay in a relationship because I was trying to win them over like you're the only fucking person in the world that doesn't love me for myself.

Brad Crowell  

How interesting is that? How interesting.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. So I was like, oh, and I, I really tried to like, I don't want to downplay my woo so much that it almost like ended up not in my strengths, because I was so afraid of that happening. And now I'm like, okay, I get the woo. I get. I got the woo, wrangle. So we're good there.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, well, I was laughing. We go to the gym, and there's another group of people at the gym. Okay, and they are in a different class and other there's like a there's this weird rivalry now, (Lesley: But there's ...) between the other guy and our teacher and like, you know, and we go in and like the first couple of months, weeks, months, whatever (Lesley: weeks ... like a (Lesley: only been a month) the other people in the class like wouldn't make eye contact with us. But we were like all looking at each other across agenda.

Lesley Logan  

But our group clearly has several wooers in it because (Brad: Oh clearly) we would like walk past we have to walk through their group because they like take over this one spaces next to all the weight. So we like walk through and all the wooers you can tell who they are because they're like ...

Brad Crowell  

We're making eye contact with them ... We're smiling at them. Listen, hey. (Lesley: And then we're like, got a smile at them) Yeah ... our group over like she smiled. Yeah, okay, we're winning them over.

Lesley Logan  

We've got two of the three. And at this point we now have they're all saying have a good night to us, (Brad: Yeah) except for the trainer. (Brad: Except for the trainer. It's really true.) The trainer is that as your peacocking thing? Anyway,

Brad Crowell  

So anyway, but it's funny, because like, it can become a challenge. But also it can become an obsession. 

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, so again, balcony in the basement. So I could keep going. But that, I would just say like, one if you haven't done your Strength Finders, definitely do it. And then two really reflecting if you are in the balcony in the basement or whatever word you want to use, in your strengths, because it is true, like your best you could be so good at something that it becomes your your defaults, like your default default default. Don't ...

Brad Crowell  

I think you could say it both ways. But but he you know, actually what his ... (Lesley: Demise) Yeah. Demise. (Lesley: Dramatic) He actually said, when when that's happening, when you're in the basement, chances are high that you're making it about you. (Lesley: Yeah) And you're not making it about somebody else. I need to win them over, I have to win them over. If they hadn't won, if I didn't win them over, then it's my fault, then I did something wrong. Right? Where, you know, like, think about that you stayed in the relationship, because he's the only person that wasn't liking you, for you. (Lesley: I know) The only and so you're like, I have to, I I ...

Lesley Logan  

Everybody loves me.

Brad Crowell  

Everybody loves you. 100%. You know, so you know, that's where it becomes that, you know, chances are high that if you're in the basement, it's because you're making it about you instead of about others where (Lesley: Yeah) you're not leading.

Lesley Logan  

I'm into that. Alright, what do you love? I know, there's a ton of things. But (Brad: Yeah, yeah) anything else?

Brad Crowell  

Well, so I thought this was I thought this was really fascinating. He talked about the idea of limiting beliefs, okay. And I talked about making it all about me, I, I can tell you that my beliefs were holding me back or holding us back that my beliefs are holding back our company from growing. And, but but he said something that I thought was really interesting. I never thought about it like this before. And I wanted to dig into it a little bit more. He said, innately we're all happy, right? When you're a child, you know, I mean, I guess you're happy and sad as a child, but you're curious, you're happy, you're excited to learn, right? He said, as we grow, we get all that stuff gets covered up with bs, that just doesn't matter. And he said, we've all heard of this idea of limiting beliefs. You know, and but he said, he said, we get stuck where, like, ... we've all heard of mindset, right? And he said, learn to master your mindset. And then he said, but also learn to master your heart set. And I was like, "What the hell's a heart set? I never heard of this." Right? And because mindset, I kind of think makes sense. Like, oh, yeah, you know, how you frame your beliefs, your limiting your beliefs, and all that kind of stuff. But he said, if you are not paying attention to your gut feelings, you're actually giving away half of your power, because you're stuck in the mindset.

Lesley Logan  

I know he and Paul Epstein we met at an event in Nashville. Paul has a book. I don't remember the name. But it has to do with like head heart hands and like, you need to make sure that before you take action equaling hands that the heart and the head are (Brad: are aligned), are aligned. And yeah, so no one no one made that connection ... But me, because in that interview, because Kevin doesn't know, Paul, but maybe they do, maybe, but at any rate, like I is the first time we've heard anyone talk about the heart set here. And I do think limiting beliefs can feel very mind... But you know, if you aren't clear on what's going on in your heart, you can do all the mind work in the world, and it's not going to get you're not going to be able to overcome those things.

Brad Crowell  

Well, because he talked a couple times about like the love, choose love over fear. I can't remember exactly what he said, but basically love energy. He talks about energy a lot. And he said he said basically, if you are stuck in logic in process and strategy, right, your only using 50% of your power. Right? That stuff's important. There's no question you need to be your mind the all that logic, you have to get to that point too. But there's a whole nother side of it of like, do I really want to be doing this? Is this the right decision? Is this the right person for me to be working with? Like there's a whole instinct that we have that we often I think it's the classic I think that the easiest way relate to this is with relationships where it's like, you're thinking too much go with your heart. You know, it's like more do you feel it? Or are you thinking it? Right? And, and it's like the people say, "Oh, my heart wants to, but my mind won't let me." Right. (Lesley: Yeah) Like, get into a relationship. I know, this was me. This was totally me. Like when we were dating, my, my heart was in it, but my mind was like, "I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I'm afraid. I had this negative experience that hurt me before, like, danger, danger, danger, and it was all up in my head." But my heart was like, "Kept bringing me back to this place." And there came a point where I had to, like, literally, like, make a mental decision, a logical decision of like, I'm just gonna go with this even though I'm afraid. (Lesley: Yeah) You know. And so anyway, that's like the heart versus that mind. So the mindset is, is only half of your power, that heart set is the other half of the power. I thought it was just really interesting. I'd never heard this idea before.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I think what's cool about that is like, a lot of it, like follow your heart, not everybody what it's like or get your mindset, right. It's like you have to do both. (Brad: Yeah) So sorry. You're not gonna get out of this life just mastering one or the other. You gotta gotta have both.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, yeah, totally. So anyway, that was that was really, that was really interesting to explore. So I hope that that is revealing for you too, because maybe you are you consider yourself like me very logical. And very, you know, I don't know. I want to see it on paper to spell it out. Right. Where, I know you often will go with your gut. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) You know, more often (Lesley: Yeah) so fascinating, fascinating. (Lesley: Yeah.) 

All right. So finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Kevin Kepple? Why don't you go first?

Lesley Logan  

Okay, this, I mean, like, I, it's a great takeaway, and it's super quick. And I want you to write them down. Ask yourself, somebody said, ask yourself, what do I want? Why do I want it? And then he actually did only another why. And he also said, don't ask yourself, How do I get it? And I think, first of all, many people talked about this, the how is going to fuck you up so many times over, because you're getting so stuck on the how it is possible, that you don't even have to figure the how out. Like it is possible that the how is already set up, and it exists. And if you are just really clear on what you want, and why you want it, you'll tell someone because we're so excited about what you want, and why you want it and your passions and be there and they're gonna go, oh, have you talked to so and so. It's like Brad wanted to work anywhere in the world, he wanted to travel for work, you'd always ... and he was trying to figure out the how on his own. And some guy goes, you know, your wife's doing that already. And needs someone to work with her. And like he gave you the how (Brad: Yeah) you had not seen.

Brad Crowell  

Even it was literally in front of me. (Lesley: Clearly) Yeah.

Lesley Logan  

Right there with hot pink hat on right there. Um, so anyways, I just really love this because ...

Brad Crowell  

So what do you want? (Lesley: Yeah) Why do you want it? Think on those things like, well, that's what you need to determine. You do not need to figure out the how.

Lesley Logan  

In fact, don't figure out the how, like (Brad: Yeah) don't even don't do that just get really clear on that thing. And, and you may have to ask yourself, why a few times to get to the true, like the true why they get you up and going even when you don't know the how.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah, I thought you also kind of comment that he said, how can we mix a little generosity into the why? Because he said sometimes passion is a little bit selfish. When you're like, all passion, right? You're you're not necessarily considering others. (Lesley: Yeah) So I thought that was interesting.

Lesley Logan  

But that's but that's why you have to go to several why's. Because if you do like Dean Graziosi is like seven layers of why (Brad: Oh seven layers), seven layers of why. It's, you'll get stuck around five or six, and you just got a hold on and you'll come back to it. But that whole your why should make you cry. Like when you get that seventh one, he figured out why did he want to do all these things because he wanted to pay for his mother's home. He didn't want her to worry anymore. He wanted to make sure he did these. It wasn't about him. The first several whys were about him. He got further down. So that's like getting a why a few times. So you get to this bigger thing. And you're the thing that set with one usually has very little do about you and most have to do about the world and it has a generosity.

Brad Crowell  

Well, my biggest takeaway was that he said, find a coach and pay Lesley for coaching. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan  

I did not pay him to say that.

Brad Crowell  

No, we did not. But I thought that was hilarious. I think I think that the underlying concept though, is something that I've lived my whole life by. And the darker parts of my life were when I didn't have a mentor, or I didn't have a coach and I've talked about this plenty of times before, but I absolutely believe that you will go further faster when you have somebody that you're willing to submit your plans, ideas, concepts, you know, like energy, love all those things when you're willing to put yourself in a position where someone can sow into your life and weigh in in a way that you respect what they have to say, it is going to benefit you in an incredible way. And so Lesley and I are constantly finding coaches for ourselves to this is not something that we did once and we're done. No, we will have coaches or mentors for the rest of our lives. So we encourage you to do exactly the same thing. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah.

Lesley Logan  

I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan  

Thank you so much for joining us today. Again, we are super grateful for you. How are you going to use these tips in your life?

Brad Crowell  

Oh, I am jumping in here. I know how I'm going to use these tips in my life. And Kevin, this is because of this guy. I went back and I listen to your convo two times. I am looking into becoming a certified Gallup Strengths Finders coach.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, yes. You totally do that. (Brad: Yeah) I love that.

Brad Crowell  

Yeah. I'm very excited. I already already sent off an email to Gallup to see what's involved in the whole program I already read about about the whole thing this morning.

Lesley Logan  

That's so fucking cool. (Brad: I'm excited.) I'm excited. I'm slightly jealous, but I'm gonna not do that certification because I already have seven. This is so cool. Okay, well, Brad already told me but you have to tell me. So DM us at the @be_it_pod. Tell us your takeaway. Tell us what you're working on. Tell us what your strengths are. And make sure you tag Kevin Kepple because he'll want to hear about them too. (Brad: Absolutely.) And please share this podcast with several friends if not all your friends and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan  

Be It Till You See It is a production of Bloom Podcast Network. 

Brad Crowell  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan. And me Brad Crowell. Our associate producer is Amanda Frattarelli.  

Lesley Logan  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.  

Brad Crowell  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianranco Cioffi.  

Lesley Logan  

Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can.

Brad Crowell  

 And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

We are all leaders in some area of our lives whether it’s in the office or at home. How do we know if we are good leaders or the traits that could help maximize our strengths? Listen to this conversation to remove the limiting beliefs and define leadership for you. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• What does it mean to be a good leader? 
• How you learn to be kind to yourself 
• How to properly understand and utilize your Strength Finders results
• Define your limiting belief
• Learn to master your mindset and your heart set 

Episode References/Links:

• Strength Finder 2.0
• Kevin Kepple IG
• Unlock Your Freedom Podcast
• Kepple Coaching Website

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Use this link to get your Toe Sox!

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan  

How do you say your last name Kepple?

Kevin Kepple  

Correct. I do that too.

Lesley Logan  

I swear I'm a professional.

Kevin Kepple  

I do that too. Like, "Oh wait." ....

Lesley Logan  

All right. So I'm like I'm just gonna tell you right now it was, this podcast is a party. And also our guests, Kevin Kepple has so many lines, so many words, so many nuggets, so many gems that I'm that I don't even know how we're gonna quote them all because there's so many good ones that I cannot wait for you to hear in your ears. So if you are listening to this while drafted an email, may I suggest that you hit pause on that email. And you take some time walking with this podcast or grab a notebook because Kevin Kepple is someone who like all of us, started off at one thing, is doing another thing and found, found the best way to be the person that he is. And y'all I'm going to tell you right now, one of those nuggets is about being more not doing more. Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to hear how you be more instead of do more after hearing his words, this podcast, our conversation. I have so much gratitude for Kevin and hope you enjoy this. Let me know how you take the this podcast away, what your test takeaways are. If you answer those questions he gave you at the end they're so great, they're so brilliant. In fact, they're questions you can like literally write down somewhere copy and paste every time you need them. They're freaking great. So without further ado, here is Kevin Kepple.

Hey, Be It listeners. Okay, I'm super excited because this man who are you're about to hear is really awesome. Talk about being it till you see it, they have so many examples and that they truly are walking the talk. And so I have Kevin Kepple here and I'm really excited to share with you his amazingness. So Kevin, who are you? What do you do these days?

Kevin Kepple  

What? What's up, Lesley? As you said, Kevin Kepple, you know, I get to work with lots of different types of leaders, usually executives, or business owners, and really help them create more access to happiness and aliveness. And, you know, if we want more, it's not about doing more, being more as the goal and just really helping them be more of the natural genius that they have. And stepping into that so they can serve at really high levels and their own unique expression of amazing.

Lesley Logan  

Okay, so many things to love about that. And of course, you know, I love the being more like, I mean, you're at the right podcast for that. But how did you before we get into being more? How did you get into this? Like, was this something that you started out right away? Or how did you start to see that, like, leaders out there needed to stop doing so much and being more than they were doing?

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, I mean, I woke up one day, when I was a kid, I knew exactly what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And it was so easy, and (Lesley: Who are your parents?) everything worked out perfectly. No, I wish. No, no that isn't true. You know, I, like a lot of people have had you know different jobs, I went to college, got out of college, and happily ever after. Right. And I got a job that I was good at, but then have a lot of joy in and expose lots of different types of leaders, you know, they're teachers, sports, corporate career, other jobs, and there's good leaders, and there's bad leaders. And I just remember being really frustrated when in one day, when I had a, the VP of the company was screaming at me and profanities. And I just feel like there's got to be a better way to lead people. And so I've got a lot of contrast of what not to be, which is great, right? Really grateful for that. And, he's doing the best he could with what he had. I worked in different types of professional sales roles for years. And I worked at enterprise software sales for a number of years and worked in financial services as well. And I was winning the trips and all that good stuff. And I got promoted, because that's what happens when you do well at a job right, you get put in charge of people like that makes you a good leader, for some reason.

Lesley Logan  

It's true. That's exactly how it goes. They just go, "Oh, this person sells a lot. So let's put them in charge of people."

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah. They must know how to tell people what to do, which is not leadership, right. And I've, you know, I figured out that I really enjoyed helping people, you know, like, be more without making it feel like less, like, that's always the goal. And you don't have to win my way to win. Matter of fact, you know, you're not going to win my way because we're never going to be creative making copies of other people. And I'd love to go further faster like whatever I'm doing, I want to maximize it. And so I was working with a coach. And I remember he asked me what I liked about my job. And this dude was awesome. He was in the Secret Service for almost 30 years. And he kind of looked right through, you know. (Lesley: Yeah.) And he's like, "What do you like about your job?" And I'm like, "Well, I love this. And I love that. And da da da." He's like, "Hang on, hang on." He's like, "Stop." He's like, "Dude, I don't think you'd like your job. You keep saying I love." He's like, "You're not even looking at me. Your body language is all wrong, your tone is all off." He's like, "Just one thing you like." And I had a lot of trouble getting there. And it's really like helping people, you know, the people that were on my team, I caught up in them just find the best, most authentic expression of themselves. And I'm like, okay, but that's such a small part of what I get to do, you know, like, and, like I really knew I was in the wrong place. I was on some trip, and there was like a teaching part we had to go to, and they were talking about tax codes. And I was, like, 30 seconds, I was ready to get out of there. I'm like, I think I'm really gonna slam my hand in the car door, then sit here and listen to this, because at least I have something to do think about ...

Feel like I won a trip. And I've had to listen to tax codes, great.

But I knew I was in trouble because I looked around and people were really excited. Like, everybody's like, engaged and into this and I was like, "Okay, there's definitely been some sort of a mixup." I'm not supposed to be here. And a coach is like, "Dude, what do you want to do?" I was like, "I want to help people." He's like, "Everybody wants to help people." And some form, he's like, "How do you want to help people?" And I had no idea and now he's like, dude, long story short, he's like, "I think you'd be a great coach." And then the limiting beliefs kick in and all the fear, right? I'm like, well, I don't really struggle because like, now if you throw a rock, you hit five coaches, right? Like they're everywhere. And you know, this was years and years ago, and ...

Lesley Logan  

Now if you throw a pebble, you'll hit seven coaches. (Lesley and Kevin laughs)

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah. Follow into. But, you know I really simple I just made it the intention, like, "Hey, you know, like, I want to find something that supports this dream." And there's a little bit more to it, but fairly simple. And I looked on LinkedIn, which I didn't do frequently, and I saw an opportunity with this international multibillion dollar company that's based in Dallas where I live, and for a national sales and leadership coach, and I'm like, "Hey, that looks cool." And so I took that job. And the only requirement was I had to move to Chicago. And I was really smart about it, though. I was like, oh, wait till after winter, and I moved in May. I didn't know Chicago does extra winter. So it (Lesley: Yeah.) was still snowing at May. It was really great. I worked for them for about three years. I got to really coach and train people all day, every day and work with powerful people. And I really learned how to do it, I do it at a high level and stepped over started my own thing years ago. And it's all good, now.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's all it's got its own journey because working for yourself, it's its own thing to learn. But what I what I find, which I like love, like, "I want to work myself." And like it is actually as hard as working for someone else is just a different kind. But I what I love about this is like you, you challenge yourself to like put yourself in a position to be for someone to see you and to see like, what, like maybe what you weren't seeing because I think a lot of us talk ourselves into the jobs we're in, or like I'm just I'm really good at this and like keep getting promoted. I I literally had to quit a job. So they would stop promoting me because I like if they promote me one more time. I'm gonna say yes. I can't stop. I can't stop. So I think like, you know, I think it's I wish I had as a secret service person going you don't actually do you know, you don't like this job? Did anyone ever tell you? So when you sort of go into leadership coaching, what is it that you see? Because like, there's a lot of people in leadership roles who actually want to be in these roles. And there's a struggle because they want to they think doing more is the thing. So what do you think makes a good leader? And what is it different for each person? Or what what is this, what is something like a sign that someone should take like, "Oh, I'm a good leader."

Kevin Kepple  

Is anybody following you? Right. Like, because leadership's not a position like you can be the President of a company and not be a leader, you know, leaders like an action really. And, you know, leadership is different than management, management is telling people what to do. A powerful leader is going to inspire and empower people and inspire me, you stimulate me to action, you power me, you give me knowledge and tools of how to do it, you know, but winning with my gifts, not winning your way. And I think that just no, are you telling people or are you asking? It's probably the simplest way to know if you're exhibiting leadership or just simply management because you're telling me what to do this not leadership has told me what to do.

Lesley Logan  

That's so fas... that's the best description I've ever heard. I'm like thinking of every single, like, my brain just went to every single boss I'd ever. (Lesley laughs) And like, um, and it's so cool, because that means you don't have to get a promotion at work to be a leader in your in your role.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, and dude, anybody can be a leader, like, you know, like, god bless moms, like we wouldn't be here without moms, like one of the hardest leadership roles in the world. And you know, you're like, I went to a four year olds birthday party this weekend. I was like, man, it's like, they're all drunk and on drugs, like they were all over the place. And that Spiderman there and little kid walks up to Spiderman. And he goes, "My favorite superheroes is Batman." I was like, "Your, that's leadership right there, buddy. Speaking up for what you want." You know, but I just think it's, it's a behavior. It's not a position. And, you know, like somebody's watching you, period. And there's like, certain leadership traits for sure, you know, that you can pay attention to an increase, but really, it's just about, you know, how are you showing up?

Lesley Logan  

And so when you were stepping into this new role, was that an easy thing for you to figure out? Was that something natural for you? Or did you actually like have to, I don't know, like, get lessons on on and leading versus managing.

Kevin Kepple  

I think I'd spent so much time thinking about it, and just always really gravitated towards leadership positions, whether it was played baseball and hockey for a long time. And, you know, it's not always I don't need to be the one in charge. But, you know, quite often, you know, leaders are going to emerge just because of the behaviors they're exhibiting, etc, etc. I love to read, and I love to just study people who are successful and see what they're doing and how I can use that to help people you know, through my own style, and had some really great, so there was, of course, a learning curve, and they're always learning, right, like, I don't know, is the most powerful phrase I ever learned how to say it took me three decades, but I finally got there and learned how to mean it. But just watching other people, you know, like, what do they do well? Like, what are they doing that I shouldn't be doing? You know, that contrast is so powerful too. And just being really, I think just being really kind as opposed to right was one of the best things I learned how to do like kind of myself as opposed to right about what I was doing wrong or kind of other people and just learning to not need to be a certain way to be okay. I think that allowed me to evolve pretty quickly.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, that kindness to ourselves, um, That's not something, I feel like, I feel like maybe going back to those little kids at a birthday party, maybe there's a natural kindness that they have. But somehow, at some point, we stopped getting, stopped being so kind to ourselves and we start putting others maybe I don't know, I've been out of the corporate world so long but putting other people and being nice to them versus being kind to them, but nice to them at least versus ourselves first and I wonder, I mean, you really can't be a leader if you're not being kind yourself because you're gonna make mistakes. So how did how do you learn to be kind to you?

Kevin Kepple  

I think it's, you know, the great skill, right? Choosing love over fear. It's like, you know, if I'm be in love, that's I'm gonna attract more love into my life, or that's like unconditional love. Not romantic, necessarily. But unconditional love. It's like not because like, everything we've ever done was motivated by fear, love, if you look at every decision you've ever taken, I guarantee you, you can boil it down to one of those two and fear can wear hats, right? Guilt, anger, apathy, shame, pride, all those are fear based, right? Forceful behavior. And love is love and unconditional love means like, I love me, no matter what happens. I love you, no matter what you do. Like, I don't have to like you to love you. Right. And that's, that's why we get married. So we can practice that with our in laws, right? I don't know how to ... (Lesley laughs) Yeah. That's a joke. (Lesley: One of my in laws listens to this podcast.) We're not talking about you.

Lesley Logan  

We're not talking about you. (Kevin: You're cool.) Other people's in laws, though, those ones. (Kevin: Yeah, on TV.) That is, well, thank you for sharing that, because what a great example of like, of a kind of love that we are practicing in our lives. Like, I think some people may I know some of my listener that can be so hard on themselves, they may not realize that they're actually practicing unconditional love in different ways. And, and there's a difference between liking someone and having love for them. And so giving ourselves credit for where we are in practice, and, and, you know, an honoring that because when you can see that you are in practice, and you can practice again, and you can show up another day. So when you work with leaders, like what is your what is your first thing? Do you observe them in practice? Do you like be a fly on the wall in their office? Or like, what's your process?

Kevin Kepple  

Here's what's wrong with you. (Lesley and Kevin laughs) And we're gonna need more than an hour, you know. No ...

Lesley Logan  

Just my assessment.

Kevin Kepple  

That's fun. That would be fun and really hard at the same time. But, the first was a start. So have a certified by Gallup with the Strength Finders tool, or ...

Lesley Logan  

Oh, we're gonna talk about that, that's my freakin favorite tool ever. Keep going. Keep going.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah. It's so phenomenal like that right there. I mean, it's a cheat sheet into your elite levels. And it's not a complete portrait of your character. It's like, "Hey, here's what you do really well. But even maybe more important, here's what it looks like when you give all your power away." And like, what a cool gift, it's a cheat sheet into your, you know, extremely high levels of satisfaction and performance, whatever. And, like, we all know that everybody's different, right? But we always look, I'm gonna look at the world through her eyes, and you'd look at the world through her eyes as yourself, that's not gonna do you a lot of good. But if I can look at the world through your, like natural patterns of behavior and high energy, and you know, exceptional performance, like, that's really cool. And, you know, I think probably the greatest gift for Strength Finders was, if I had permission to be me, like I told you, I was working in finance, and I hated Excel. I hated it tax codes. Like, "I think there's something wrong with me." Like, "No, dude, you're just not built to like, that kind of thing." And that's totally cool. So I start with that, because, I mean, just one conversation with somebody, you can shift people so fast. You know, like, if I tell you, Lesley this, if I tell you, Lesley that, you may hear it, but if you see it differently from within, right, cite from within insight, like that's how you create lasting change. And, like, it's such a cool thing, because at this juncture, I've worked with 1000s of people with the Strength Finders assessment. And it's always like, so onpoint, people are like, sometimes when people get their results, like, "Well, this just isn't right." Like, it's usually because they don't understand it. And once I explain it, like, "Okay, that is me." And you know, we think we want or we don't have but then when you start looking at the things that aren't natural for people like, like, "Do you want to do that?" Like, you know, like, woo - winning others over is a strength, right? A lot of people who don't have it, like I wish I had woo. I was like, I have like an incessant need to talk to everyone shake every hand in the room, "Do you want to go talk to everybody in the room?" Like, "Oh." But people with woo like, "Yes," you know, and like, that's cool, man. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're built that way.

Lesley Logan  

I'm laughing because I'm 100% introvert and woo is in my top five. And it's exhausting because it's like, I can't leave. I need to go lay down.

Kevin Kepple  

There's somebody over there on the other side of the warehouse, I haven't talked to you. Yeah. You guys are so good because you protect the rest of us though. (Lesley: Yeah) Because y'all can actually get energy from that. And like, it's really fascinating to watch the people with woo work, and I was I use that specifically because I know I knew that you had to have it. As soon as we got on I was like, that's woo because you made me feel really good.

Lesley Logan  

Well, thank you and also I think like, also our strengths if we like leaning into them a little bit. Like I knew there was a time when like, I was not winning someone over. I was like, "I'm gonna stick around in this relationship till I win you over." And it's like, "Oh, actually, maybe it's just not that into me." Yeah, that's a, that's a story for another day, everyone. But here's what's here, you're gonna get a kick out of this. This is this is how much Strength Finders like matters to my husband and I. So we were on a first date that he didn't know he was on. And he just told me, he was going through a divorce. And I was like, "Okay, that's this person's not really going to be dateable." But then we started talking about, like, the businesses we ran and all this stuff. And he had a band. And he worked for a startup. And I had written a book. And he mentioned he's like, "Oh, have you heard of Strength Finders, 2.0." And I was like, "What are your top five?" And he pulled out his top five, I pulled up my top five, we've three that overlap different, different orders, and the top five, but three out of the five. And then he was like, "Do want to get out of here?" And so that was like, that was our way of getting together. (Lesley and Kevin laughs) But it is those in your you're correct in how it really makes you understand yourself. And like who you are so much better because I could not understand why there were certain things that would just like, I would go all end with light me up. And other things that I'm like this like, but like one of my top five is significance. So it's like, it has to matter. (Kevin: Yeah) It has to be important. And then I also have activator or positivity, woo and connector. And so it's like, those are I don't know which order they're in. But like, I feel like significant significance was in the top three and activator and connector on the top one up there. But like, I just I was like, oh, this is why like, I literally meet someone and I have to connect them over here. And I do like, I really love doing that. And my husband has told the story on the pod before. So if you've heard it before, I want your hearing again, but Kevin hasn't. He was trying to figure out how he like, why in the band he was the one making sure they all got paid and making sure all these things and he couldn't really figure out like, what, what like, made him up. And when he did that. He's like, "Oh, this is why I'm the person who does this at work. And this is why I do this." And it really helped him understand that he had transferable skills, not just in a band, but also in a business. And so now he's the CEO of our companies. But like how cool that a test like that could actually go oh, this is why you're so like, this is what you can do in another company. You don't have to just go while I'm in a band, you know.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, but that's such a great point you know, like, we're all different. We know that. But do we actually own that? And like, I have an older brother, he's two years older than me, but like, I always joke that like, "Dude you're born like 70 years old." He's like, "Always been like very wise and responsible. And just like, cartoons are stupid, that would never happen." Like, I'm like, "Dude, we're like four years old man ..." (Lesley laughs) And he's so serious. And I used to compare myself to him, right? The comparison game, we'd like to look at other people so we can feel inferior or superior, right? The worst game anybody ever plays? And I'm like, well, I can't do the things he can do because it's number one strengths, deliberative, it means he's slow. He's methodical. Assess every risk before I even start. And to you and I who have activator really high. We're like, dude, I got bored and quit listening. I just want to jump off the cliff, build the wings on the way down, right, whatever that looks like. (Lesley: Yes.) Don't give me instructions. Like that slows me down. I have to come back and ask for him later. But just don't give it to me up front. Just let me get started because ready, fire, aim is such an effective strategy for us. (Lesley: Yeah.) Just we're different ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah. Oh, I hope my whole entire team listen to this because they I'm like, "I have this idea." And then they're like doing the whole project management. And I'm like, "I'm already, I'm already 17 steps ahead." I've already asked them. They said yes, these people are going to do this. And they're like, "Wait, you have moved to the process." And I'm like, "No, because I want to know quickly if this plane is gonna fly or not." Like, I don't want to build it (Kevin: Exactly.) and then it doesn't work.

Kevin Kepple  

... with activator, what we get is that WTF look a lot because we start so far ahead of starting point is like, if somebody asks you to explain the alphabet, you're like, yeah, it ends with y and z. Like, wait, what? And it confuses people. And it's not like smart or dumb. It's just like, we're ready to get to the end. And we can begin with the end of mine really easily. And it's so powerful and so good to have people around you that can do the processes and support you and help you find the things that oh yeah, maybe we should get insurance but ...

Lesley Logan  

Well, you know what is also great about them because they are listening to us. Sometimes the idea is really fucking awesome. And it goes great. And then we need to fly again. So it's really nice when they're like okay, here we can just like repeat, rinse and repeat. (Kevin: Yeah.) Oh, this is so so okay, so people you have people do this and then you have them have them understand their strengths better. And, and then in turn, hopefully that helps them take these next steps as a leader just owning who they are as opposed to trying to be something that they're not in their role.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, absolutely. And really just helping, you know them understand like it's one of the cool things about strings like your natural sources of energy. And energies can be in different, right? Like it's power, it's our natural power. But, you know, gravity is super powerful, you know, you and I don't float away to the moon or whatever, right, thanks to gravity. But if we go up to the top of my house and jump off, we go crashing into the ground, right? It's not malicious, it's just going the way I direct it. So with my strings, I need to make sure they're pointed the way I want, you know, like, significant, you mentioned that one, I have that one fairly high too. And that's a really great strength, because it's about my make an impact, make an impact on other people, make an impact in the world, make an impact on ourselves. And that's the balcony. Right. The the good version, you know, that, that negative space on that the basement, if you will, you know, the basements like when I make things really important that aren't that important, right? And so, you know, maybe even making it all about me, right? The the the monster comes out, and then like, you know, just pushes people away.

Lesley Logan  

I feel like I'm getting a therapy session, everyone, because I'm like, oh, I do, do that. That is a bet. That is not so great.

Kevin Kepple  

But what's the wild with that assessment? Okay, so, Gallup, I love you guys. They're the ones who created Strength Finders, but like your marketing, people need to have a talk. I mean, you'd have a little heart to heart here.

Same with their website.

Yeah, their website, they just redid it a couple of years ago. I'm like, somehow it went regressed. But they rebranded Strength Finders to Clifton Strengths in the middle of the pandemic, because that's what you do when you have an assessment. Somebody's taken 30 plus million times you change the name to something even more obscure that nobody understands. Don Clifton was the guy who created Strength Finders, like thank you, Don in heaven. But you know Clifton Strengths assessment doesn't really help me understand what it is. And now it makes it harder to find for people. So StrengthsFinder is CliftonStrengths, same exact assessment. And they package it where you can buy the top five or all 34. (Lesley: Yeah.) And so like when I went to Gallup years ago, "They're like you have any questions?" I have lots of questions. And I'm like, "Why is competition not higher for me? I feel like I'm the best at Strength Finders." And they're like, "Yeah, it's number six." I'm like, "But it's not my top five." And so here's how you read the report just for you guys. Here's how you find your dominant strengths, your dominant strengths go all the way down to 10 11 12 or 13. Somewhere in those three numbers, like out of the again, 33 like plus million times I've done this. So you read when you read the top 10 in your head, you read the definition, it should sound like this. Yeah, that's pretty much always me. Either after 10, after 11, after 12 or 13, it stops and it stops. And it sounds like this, instead of being pretty much always meets. Well that sometimes me but not always. So you just draw a line right there. Everything above that line, those are your dominant strings. So even like 12 or 13 can be as strong as one sometimes. And just because of the way they package it though a lot of people don't understand that and myself included in the past. So ...

Lesley Logan  

That's interesting. I did the top 34 because I wanted to find a new assistant. And I didn't want to find another me because I knew I would like love someone else who was like me. I would love someone I got that'd be so much fun. But I'm an ideas machine. (Kevin: Yeah ... And what about the details?) Yeah, and those no details, correct. I mean, I married someone with a detailed up I thank God, but, um, but uh, but I made sure we have everyone who like has to be on my team. We like do their Strength Finders, and they have to like make up for the bottom. There's gonna be someone who can make up for the bottom. Because otherwise it's like, where's that thing? I don't I just threw up put in this folder. I don't even know. (Kevin: I got bunch of this.) Yeah, those folders.

Kevin Kepple  

It's funny, but you know, it's important to understand, it's not like a complete portrait of your character. It's your natural talents is all that this shows you and at the bottom is not weaknesses. It's just released express strengths. Like harmony is number 34 for me, like doesn't mean I can't get along with anyone. Right? It just means that I move fast. So I don't always wait for everybody to see what I'm doing. I see empathy at 34 all the time. And especially if it's a woman I'm working with the last, "Was that bad?" Like did that means you're a serial killer? It's really bad. Like really? Like, no, just like, super empathetic is not the end of the world. Does it mean you don't have empathy? It just means it's not like a dominant thing for you. (Lesley: Yeah.) And it's no big deal. And you know what, like, talent is not rare. Not at all. Like, I've never seen a blank report like nope, no talent for you. Sorry. Like, what's rare is people who have developed this talent into a genius they can leverage on demand. And genius has so much less to do with genetics than it does with habits. You know, get into the habit of being your most excellent self, whatever that looks like. And that's the trick right there. So simple, but not easy.

Lesley Logan  

So when you learned so far, because now everyone's taking this test while they're listening to us, and they don't do that you really want to be by yourself because they had to time test. But, but when you when you kind of like got into your strength, how did you lean into them without, you know like, is there is there a way of like leaning into them more or is their way of like, okay, I'm gonna exercise this strength more honoring those because I think you know, it's easy for people to go, oh, empathy is my worst one. I'm going to make that one better. It's like how did you stay in your in your zone?

Kevin Kepple  

That's a great question. There's probably a very eloquent way of saying this question that I get asked like, every time we were taught this or worked with somebody it's like, and like, so the basement is like our negative behavior, like when we're making it all about us with our strengths. Like, for instance, maximizer is my number one strength. Maximizer in the balcony is like, just fascinated with elite, like, whatever, like, mastery looks like in this, whether it's a person I'm working with, like, Lesley, like your champion is, I was so excited to be on your podcast, like I listened to it before I reached out, because I want to be around somebody, I feel like a master. And like, You're definitely a master at being with people and just do what you do. And that's really attractive to a maximizer, because I wanted to just be around it, so I can show you some of that for me and help people like her or whatever. And that's obviously really healthy getting to like just elite levels. The basement on maximizer is nothing's ever good enough, right? Like, well, let me just make it a little better and a little better. And it's like, how did you even get dressed today? If it's not like absolutely amazing, you know? And so it can be very picky. And so the question that people ask, like, how do I get out of the basement, once they understand the language, right? You know, it's like our blind spot. And like, man, it's really simple. Stop making it all about you, right? Because if I'm solely focused on me, then like, that gives the ego a lot of time to jump in. And, you know, the BCD is, you know, blaming complaint and defendant and fear and worry, and all those like, behaviors that take a lot of energy, but bring us little rights is an addiction, you know, like addictions all have the one thing in common, like repetition, but no payoff. And you know, people get addicted to that stress filled negative space of worrying, Kevin included in the past. And so the really the way that you can lean more into these is understand what good looks like, but also understand what you know, the basement looks like, so that, you know, what I'm aware of, I can actually do something about, you know, what I'm unaware of, that's the dangerous stuff is unaware behaviors that are just patterns in my life that take me away from what I want. And, you know, like, I can't give what I don't have, if I don't understand my strengths, and I can't use that not at the highest level. But Gallup has a great podcast, actually, if you can find it, like, they hide it somehow. But it's, it's phenomenal. I think it's called Clifton Strengths, they just rebranded that to after seven seasons. So they, they're really crushing it. But it's awesome if you do find it, because it's like 10 minutes of one strength. And you know, just like pick one a day a week. But I mean, like with anything else, like it's so important to make new decisions, like so often people make this judgment, like, oh, this is how it is like, even if it's a good thing. And whatever you like judged as being a certain thing, like you're no longer evolving there. It's like static, right? (Lesley: Yeah.) And so like, every time I go back and read about maximizer, I learned something new. Even though I've worked with this tool for years. It's still a new version of me. So I need to make new decisions, right? (Lesley: Yeah.) What, what is the next level of this look like?

Lesley Logan  

Oh, my God, I now have a new podcast. I'm gonna listen to it and be obsessed. But I also think that I've never heard of the terminology like the balcony in the basement. And I kind of love this because Brad's going to listen to this because we'll do a recap on you. We talk about you on air ... You have to listen to it. But like, now I can just go, "I'm in the basement. Leave me alone. I'm in the basement. I need to get out."

Kevin Kepple  

Sometimes we go into the basement, too.

Lesley Logan  

I feel that. I feel that. As an activator, I felt like that's really ... Oh my gosh. So this is I think this is really cool. So you, how many people are you like, coaching on leadership? And is this something you're doing all the time? Like is this like a you work with like one on one people? Are you just going over people's quiz like it's not a quiz? It's definitely a test. But like, are you are you going over these like individuals or with teams? How do you work with this?

Kevin Kepple  

That's a great question. So a few different ways, I do a little bit of one on one coaching, but not very scalable, because there's only one me. So I have actually some coaches that support the work that we do. So I have a good team underneath me that can extend out and do a little bit more one on one. But then I do a few different types of groups host a mastermind group for entrepreneurs and business owners that is really want to go further faster, you know, like minded people and like minded journeys, and I love that we're all co elevating together and also do some corporate work, I work with a couple of different CEOs, and then work with their leadership team as well. And just helping them really to, you know, be better, faster, smarter, and build a better, more powerful culture and really just lean into the gifts that God gave them to go out and create whatever their version of amazing is. And so long answer to a short question.

Lesley Logan  

No, but I find it fascinating cuz of course, my brain was like, well, do you like, do you make sure that there's a bunch of different strengths represented in your mastermind. Like my other and then another thought, because a bounce was like, are you ever do you ever do that with the CEO and their leadership team and realize, "Hey, you've got like these people doing like, the wrong roles." Do you ever like move people around so that they can be more aligned with their strengths or you kind of just help them find balconies in their roles with what they've got?

Kevin Kepple  

I mean, if they do internal shuffling, that's, you know, I don't really do the consulting piece as much as I have. But I really prefer just helping people figure out whatever it is that's, you know, stopping them slowing down standing in the way. Because it's like, when we're happier, we perform better period, right? (Lesley: Yeah) And we're all innately happy, we're just covered up with all this BS, it doesn't matter. And so a big part of what we do is know, like, limiting beliefs, right? So simple, but a lot of people just don't understand it. Even if they've heard the phrase, they don't, they don't know what's limiting them, right? And helping people learn to master the mindset and the heart set. Because so many people give away all that power, right? It's just the mindset, it's all they use, right? It's all logic and reason. I'm like, dude, your mind is a fraction of your being. Like, you don't have to use it all the time. Like when I sit down, I don't use my legs. Not much, right? I don't need to use my mind constantly. But if I'm trying to use reason and logic, where there's no risk and reason and logic, right, I'm eliminating all that. And I'm going to stick to the known and I'm going to crawl through life, like very slowly. But when I can go through the gut, right? That intuition, that knowingness, like, I know what's for me, like, I knew this podcast was for me. I knew the space was for me, right? And then I go into the heart, like, where's the energy? Where's the love? Like, dude, I love your attitude, your energy, the way that y'all do recaps. I'll heard y'all doing one. I was like, "Is that something they do all the time?" (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) Then the basement came out. And I'm like, "Hey wait, they're gonna do that about me." And I'm like, "Wait, that's awesome. I think it'd be really cool." And then like, go into the head for the planning, right? And then I did want to leverage that mind to create the plan. And then I use reason, then I use logic, right? Once I've already like, you know, gone through the, like, most infinite parts of me down here. And so if that makes sense ...

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, that's so far, there's, like, 17 things I wanted to touch on. But one of the things I love the beginning is you, you are not being everything in in that role, like, of course, you could probably consult for them, you can make it part of your package, but you are actually like, going, "This is what I actually do. This is what I really like to do. This is where I really excel and doing it." And this, and that's good. You know, I think a lot of times, I'm, as we coach people, they're like, "Well, I can do this, and I can do this, I'm gonna do all these things." And I'm like, "Okay, and you're gonna, that's exhausting. Do you really want to spend that much time with people do? Do you know how much time you just said, you're gonna make sure that person you're selling it to?" So I think that's because so because I think a lot of people would do that. So I love that you shared that because I hope it gives people listening permission to like, like, it's not limiting, because now you have like, it's like more energizing to do what you do by just giving yourself like, this is a thing I like to do.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, I mean, that's such a great point. You know energies, like, either there. It's not right. Like, we feel really good about things, or maybe they take our energy away. And that's a really cool thing again about this assessment. It just shows you your natural sources of energy. (Lesley: Yeah.) And you know, just like, "Hey, I've got this predisposition for doing this. So what does it look like when I invest time learn about it and actually using it?" And that's how your superpowers and it's so funny, like, I work with this tool, so many different amazing people and asked this question, probably 200 times, like, "Hey, tell me your top strengths." Like with somebody I've already worked with for a decent amount of time. They look at me, and I look at their phone, or they start going through their papers. Like waiting, waiting, and they finally fall, "Okay, oh my gosh, I can activate her and I got this. And I got that." I'm like, "Dude, do you think it would be awkward if we were walking down the street, we met Superman. And we asked him what his superpowers were. But he had to look at his iPhone and tell us he could fly like these are your superpowers? Don't you think you should just take the time to memorize them?" Like, and you know, like Kevin included because my coach will one point was like, "Hey, what are your strengths." And I pull it off the shelf? I'm like, blow the dust off.

Lesley Logan  

Yeah, I I love thinking of it like that. And I think I hope everyone listening goes and gives himself the test, if you haven't, or dusts off the strengths if you have and, and, and dive in and get to know yourself a little bit more. Because when we, the more we know about ourselves, the easier it is to, like, lean in and be ourselves and be that for others. And I think that's I mean, that's kind of how you be it till you see it.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, exactly. And know that so I read that in a good book once.

Lesley Logan  

All right, we're gonna take a quick break, and we're gonna find out how we can find out, how we can work with you more.

So Kevin, where can people find you, follow you, share their superpowers with you?

Kevin Kepple  

@kevinkepple on Instagram or LinkedIn. Unlock Your Freedom Podcast with my name. Yeah, really any social media wherever you like to go. Yeah, just reach out if I can help and I love helping people. I've got a question. Let me know. If you're wanting to take the assessment by the way, it's kind of hard to find. We were talking about just Google Clifton Strengths Assessment purchase. That's what you put in like ... (Lesley: Put and purchase.) Yeah. It's gonna get you to the right place.

Lesley Logan  

We'll put the link below and if you don't know, everyone, it's really easy. You can just swipe on up and like my team puts all these links, including how to get to Kevin, how to get this podcast and all that. So but yeah, it's, it's also very interesting if you buy it for other people then you have to figure out how to find that purchase, but you can it's possible we we've done it. (Kevin: Yeah) So well have that their. So Kevin, we ask everybody be it till you see it. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted action steps people can take to be it till they see it.

Kevin Kepple  

Yeah, what a great question. I think like keeping it really simple, right? Leonardo da Vinci, simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Like such good advice. So ask yourself two questions like, "What do I want? And why do I want it?" You know, what am I passionate about creating right now? What absolutely I love? And then why? How can I mix generosity into that? Because passion is a little selfish sometimes. And don't ask how. Because if you knew how you'd already be doing it, what do you want? Why do you want it? And you know, just without judgment, like what's slowing me down, what stand in the way was stopping me and find somebody powerful like Lesley pay her money so that she can help you go further faster, because you will always go faster with a really powerful coach. That is really really lethal, beautiful combination of a big heart and a big brain. And that's definitely what Lesley Logan is. And so I would highly suggest find somebody like her to take you wherever you want to go.

Lesley Logan  

Oh, my gosh, Kevin, well, like attracts like, so same to you. Thank you. These are great questions. Everyone, how are you gonna use these in your life? Let us know tag Kevin on Instagram, tag the @be_it_pod. Share this with a friend. Take your test, share your top five with us and your friends because the more we all know about ourselves, the easier it is to be it till you see it and if we're all doing this, I'm like, "What a better world we're all living in. So much easier." So thank you so much and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai