We can’t do this without taking power back.

But with the systems of power so effectively tied up in the complex system of unelected officials, hidden relationships and the ownership of natural resources, there seems to be no clear strategy for taking power back. One theory of change is putting pressure on the system until it caves—becoming ungovernable at scale.

Fabian Dablander, an energy transition researcher at the University of Amsterdam, and a member of the activist group Scientist Rebellion joins me to discuss that strategy: Is it possible? How do we do it? We also discuss nonviolence vs sabotage, hope and denial, and the tipping points of social change. We then confront power: Where does power lie? How much is power willing to give up? And should we recognise that power is not willing to come to the table to negotiate?

© Rachel Donald

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