BetaTalk - The Renewable Energy and Low Carbon Heating Podcast

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In this episode Nathan's guests myth bust heat pumps. He is joined by Bean from the Ground Source Heat Pump Association and Heat Pump Federation; Robin who is also from the GSHPA and Bill, a heat pump specialist. All 3 guests are engineers with a vast amount of knowledge with heat pump technology. 

Heat pumps are a recognised technology for helping the UK decarbonise heat and reach net zero. Unfortunately, there does seem to be some myths about what they can and can not do. 

Here are the myths around heatpumps we discussed:

1. Inverter driven compressors are more efficient than fixed speed compressors. Bill starts us off with this one. As you will hear, inverters are efficient but again it comes down to design. Different heat pump designs and applications may benefit from fixed speed compressors. 
2. Heat Pumps are maintenance free and free energy. Kind of two myths rolled into one.
3. Heat Pumps need to run all the time. Robin starts this one off by discussing an energy savings trust study and Bill finishes with a German study on ground loops.
4. A high temperature heat pump can just replace a boiler. Again, you will hear, the guests discuss design. Low temperature heating is becoming more realised in the industry along with hydraulic design. Bean alludes to the new qualification the CIPHE are producing regarding this and also talks about some of the problems we find with underfloor heating (UFH) installation work
5. Heat Pumps only work in new builds. Bean discusses how as an installer he was installing heat pump systems into grade 1 and 2 listed buildings. The topic of hybrid heat pump systems is brought up. All guests and Nathan considered the fact that boilers are not needed as back up. In district heating systems it may make sense but we can design heatpump systems to not need boilers
6. Heat pumps only work with underfloor heating Robin discusses how some heat pump installations have been cancelled because of a notion UFH was needed for heat emitters. A problem especially in the non domestic sector
7. Fitting a larger ground loop fixes most problems with ground source heat pumps Again we hear the importance of hydronic design and understanding pressure drop
8. You need a room thermostat in every room to comply with building regulations and for efficiency How do we control heat pumps and comfort. Listen to Nathan's guest talk about weather compensation and other forms of control
9. Low Loss Headers should be used on all heat pumps Hydronic separation, flow rates and delta t is par for the course in this chapter
10. All heat pumps are noisy Will heat pumps make frustrate our neighbours?
    
    
    

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In this episode Nathan discusses with Evergreen Energy how consumers are able to get help with the upfront cost of renewable heating technology.

Evergreen Energy are an OFGEM approved investor who are able to offer consumers the chance to assign the RHI (renewable heat incentive) payments over to them in order to have a heat pump system installed at a much cheaper rate than is often considered. 

Listen to Helen explain how Evergreen Energy was engendered by entrepreneur Stephen Critchlow.

Simon explains a little about the assignment of rights and also how their initiative helps: 

• Installers transition into renewables within a supportive framework
• Consumers adopt low carbon technology with less cost
• Deploy more low carbon technology

You can find more about Evergreen Energy here: https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/

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The first episode of season 3 discusses the green home energy grant with renewable heating engineers Leah and  Steve and also Kathryn from the University of Lancaster

For more information around this grant from the government visit the SimpleEnergy Advice website.

This episode highlights how hard it can be for consumers and find out why Steve and other engineers have opted not to take part in the scheme

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Graeme Fox
Head of REFCOM - provider of F-Gas Schemes, James Baker, Renewable Heat Engineer (both land and sea) and Lisa-Jayne Cook 

a refrigeration engineer and along with Graham a board member of IOR Institute of Refrigeration

01:00 Graham describes how REFCOM was set up to provide quality environmental standards. Very interesting how the recovery of refrigerant used to be voluntary. He also explains the two tier system of

REFCOM F-Gas certification and REFCOM ELITE

02:19 Lisa explains the Institute of Refrigeration

03:55 James introduces us to the new term of “natural refrigerants” and the refrigerant propane which is now becoming a popular refrigeration gas for heat pumps.

We talk about propane in split systems and the regulations around this

06:02 EN378 safety regulations - quantity of refrigerant in occupied spaces. 

06:15 James describes what a slit system is vs a monobloc. In a split the compressor and one of the coils is outside the property with two refrigerant lines joining it to the fan coil unit FCU within the property

07:20 Lisa discusses issues with the purchase of split systems and how important it is to employ professionals. And Graham explains the regulation behind a non hermetically sealed pre charged piece of equipment and fluorinated gasses.

10:00 The problems with online sales of equipment and DIY installation. Despite propane not being a fluorinated gas (F- Gas) there are still important regulations to consider e.g. Atmospheres Explosibles (ATEX) and DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations)

DSEAR risk assessments, room size and volume for flammable refrigerants.

13:15 The difference between and F-Gas and propane and a discussion on types of refrigerants. E.g R12, fluorinated greenhouse gases, global warming potential (GWP). Generally, the lower the GWP of a refrigerant the higher the safety implication e.g flammability with the hydro carbon propane and high pressure with CO2

17:25 James discusses another aspect of DIY installs of spit systems: their performance and reliability. How air and moisture are bad for refrigeration systems: e.g. acid and compressor burnout

20:14 Will HVAC engineers move to the renewable sector? Generation 5 of district heating with ambient loops

22:40 Diversity in the industry and apprenticeships

27:50 The refrigeration is a huge industry but little  knowledge of it exists

31:00 How would you choose which heat pump to have based on its refrigerant. Different types of refrigerant e.g.  407c, 410a, R32 with lower flammability and a discussion around GWP.

32:55 Refrigerant leakage and Total Equivalent Warming Impact

36:50 CO2 as a refrigerant in mono-blocs or district networks.

39:20 The expense of heat pumps and makes

43:30 Hydrogen in homes…will it work 

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00.40 Paul Hull's experience in Denmark where there are lots of heat networks. He was out there. to look at heat recovery systems. He talks about how heat is captured from FaceBook's servers 
01.35 Flue recovery for capturing heat
02.40 Energy wastage in the UK and energy efficiency 
03.30 Building Management Systems
04.40 District Heating systems being decommissioned, and Battersea Power Station
05.55 Hybrid Energy Centres
06.30 Europe heat networks inspiring the UK 
09.00 Lack of understanding around heat networks in the UK
13.00 The discourse around heat networks
14.00 Heat Networks and communities and public support for tackling climate change 17.00 Commercial heating training and self employed heating engineers
18.00 British Gas apprenticeship scheme
22.00 Products going on in Austria

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Guests: Ingo Leusbrock Head of department "Cities and Networks" at AEE Institute For Sustainable Technologie a Non-profit research institute in Gleisdorf, Austria https://www.aee-intec.at/index.php?lang=en

Research and demonstration on renewable energy and energy and resource efficiency with strong focus on the thermal.

This includes district heating and cooling, but also spatial energy planning, Positive Energy Districts. With main projects / contribution: 

• ThermaFLEX, national flagship project with 27 partners on concept development and demonstration of "flexibility measures" in district heating
• Participant in IEA DHC and IEA EBC annexes / tasks in this field

David Watson: Director of the Heat Trust, an independent, not for profit consumer champion for customers on heat networks. David has worked in energy policy for over 20 years and was most recently the Director of group strategy at Centrica where he worked on decarbonisation of heat policy/strategy https://www.heattrust.org/the-scheme

Paul Hull: Managing Director of https://www.thecommerciagroup.co.uk/ an award winning commercial and domestic heating company. Paul is one of Nathan's favourite commercial heating engineers. He is also the campaign director of https://www.gssh.co.uk/ which promotes gas safety in the UK

01.40 Are solar thermal heat networks popular in the UK

02.24 The role heat networks can play in the decarbonisation of heat

04.00 how renewable technology has been installed but is not being used

05.55 Protecting the customer and regulation and policy

06.45 Austrian heat networks and the work Are Intech does, 3,500 district heating systems all over Austria

10.40 Solar Heat networks in Europe

12.50 how solar thermal got a bad name and is not being talked about

13.45 Heat network providers, customer assurance, customer protection and the work the Heat Trust do

16:28 Kensa’s district heat system

17:45 Hybrid heat networks. But not perhaps biomass. Easy user controls

20:00 Hydrogen’s role in heat and hydrogen ready. Hydrogen networks

23:30 Quality management programmes, spacial energy planning and support from Europe to help the UK with SolarHeat heat networks, spacial energy planning

26:50 Redeveloped heat networks and retrofit heat networks. National energy policy and strategy devolving to regional, local level design making. Starting with energy efficiency.

29:00 Ageing district heating systems

29: 30 Demineralised water VDI2035 for district heating systems to protect corrosion

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Visit the BetaTeach Youtube Channel where you'll be able to see my BetaTalk guests.  Please like and subscribe. 

00:30 Heat Pump manufacturer training
01:58 Heat Pump supply chain issues. Heat Pump and solar thermal technology is not ordinarily stocked in plumbing merchants. Getting it delivered often involves extra contingency and logistics.
05:36 Solar Thermal suppliers and the issues with obtaining solar heat components
08:35 Why heat pump engineers often have to add on price
09:45 Heating engineers are now self employed, does this cause problems? Will there be a shift back to employed heating engineers. As Leah explains installing a variety of technologies within a hybrid heating system e.g. (solar thermal with solar PV with battery storage with heat pump) may better suit an SME rather than a sole trader.
14:12 Nathan speaks about his specialist topic: training. 
18:12 Are we training to many people to get diploma certificates (not full qualifications)
21:00 Most plumbers and heating engineers are self employed. They don't tend to be able to take on apprentices (students who will gain an NVQ). If they do take on an apprentice it is usually a family member e.g. daughter, son, niece or nephew.
24:00 Apprenticeships are not always a great way to learn if bad habits are being transferred.
30:00 Control of heat pump systems. Weather compensated control on heat pumps. Some heat pump manufacturers controls work with agile tariffs. How they can load the buffer tank at different times. How some of the good engineers do not like microclimating with zone control. Agile, load shifting, smart control technologies working with solarheat and batteries. Car charging and powerwall
35:00 Will heat pump system installs be scalable and the problem with installing a system in the summer.
38:00 The problem with boiler scrap-age schemes, the problem with the average boiler install.
40: 00 Ken mentions the H word. Hydrogen boilers. Hydrogen does not seem to be suitable for the grid and engineers discuss better uses for Hydrogen.
44:00 Low temperature heating systems. Low temp ready heating systems. Heat pump ready cylinders. 

 
 






 

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Subscribe to this podcast on Spotify and iTunes and find this episode also on the BetaTeach Youtube Channel. Please leave a good review to help others interested in these essential topics find us through search engines. 

Heat Pump podcasts I imagine a few and far between. This one likes to meet the engineers installing heat pumps, solar thermal systems etc. to see and understand the challenges which they face. Engineers are at the front line of installing renewable technology and have different vantage points to other cohorts interested in reducing CO2 emissions and reaching net zero targets.

• 01:25 Ken discusses how consumers are becoming more aware of the low carbon and renewable technologies available to them
• 02:49 Leia from Your Energy Your Way chats about the RHI and whole house retrofit and the cost of a heat pump
• 04:10 Rob from Solarflair education of heating engineers
• 05:30 Nathan mentions how the gas industry has trained engineers and how high efficiency boilers are not efficient if on inefficient heating systems
• 07:06 Leia - changing radiators for heat pump systems and the importance of rom by room heat loss calculations
• 08:23 wet heating systems and how many radiators are oversized and perfect for low temp heating systems
• 10:00 fabric first and the second law of thermodynamics
• 10:35 heat pumps matching heat loss and insulation requirements. Hybrid and bivalent heating systems
• 11:35 High temp heat pumps and MCS rules
• 12:09 MCS accreditation and the struggle with DNO form filling
• 14:00 DNO District Network Operators and Energy Network Association
• 16:46 Concerns with overload and amps. AC and DC and Substations
• 19:44 A 12kW heat pump does not require a 12kW electrical supply
• 21:06 COP goes down in the winter, low temp heating systems and heat calculations
• 24:11 Solar heat and solar thermal hybrid heating systems. Glycol stagnation and refract testing
• 26: 35 Integration of solar thermal with buffer tank and buffer size
• 29:30 Airing cupboard and roof space for heat pumps and how solar thermal is more efficient than PV with small roof space

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Phil Hurley MD of NIBE and the vice chairperson of the Heat Pump Association, Paul Hull the campaign director of Gas Safe Super Hero's and Keith Harrison discuss with Nathan on the BetaTeach BetaTallk podcast how gas and oil engineers can transition to low carbon heating technologies such as heat pumps and solar heat.

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