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In the first episode of season 10 which is being sponsored by Ultimate Renewables Supplies Nathan speaks with Madeleine Gabriel the Mission Director for  Sustainable Future mission at NESTA and Adam Bell, formerly a civil servant at DECC, BEIS and DESNZ and now policy Director at Stonehaven.

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In this episode I spoke to Nigel Banks, Technical Director at Octopus Energy. Nigel is  author of Fabric Fifth which many now see as the common sense approach to retrofitting and decarbonising homes. 

Nigel spoke in a personal capacity. I was extremely grateful he came on the show.  I have been critical of Octopus in certain regards but am also well aware they are doing important work. It was a pleasure to have Nigel speak on my show. 

I also chatted with Dan Kelly, Managing Director at Dartmoor Energy. Dan has nine years experience with heat pump systems as well as being a qualified PAS2035 retrofit coordinator and assessor.  

For me, the episode helps illustrate that the fa bric first mantra has possibly led the UK down the wrong path.  And it could be argued there has been a waste of Government funds, essentially tax payers money. 

The most vehement of fabric first advocates, to me, clearly do not understand why the forefathers of thermodynamics got excited about heat pumps: things which used work to do heat rather than things which use heat to do work.  The former being able to reach well above the 100 percent efficiency cap of the later. 

It highlights how many are not taking ownership of their own learning and understanding what people like Lord Kelvin knew back in 1852.

It has been far too easy for people to  disseminate "fabric first".  Quite honestly it is often laziness and highlights a lack of professional development

It is totally understandable that consumers do not understand the science of heat but for those involved in the discourse, especially if they are being paid and funded via money from the tax payer they need to take ownership of their own learning and bring them selves up to speed. 

What's discussed:

• UKREiiF event, and lack of heat pump knowledge
• Framework lists for Social Housing and Local Authorities
• Conflicts of interest regarding PAS2035
• Cavity Wall Insulation (and Zone 4)
• LA's are stuck between a rock and a hard place
• Heat Pump Optimisers such as Passiv UK and Homely
• Tackling fuel poverty at scale
• The able to pay market vs the fuel poverty market
• Trust Mark - does it work? Possibly not
• Unconscious incompetence

I'd like to thank Grundfos for sponsoring this season of BetaTalk

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Nathan sat down with three regional winners for the 2024 Heating Installer Awards.

They explain their winning installs as well as well as discussing the current trends happening in the industry

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Nathan was grateful the IMA reached out to ask if their CEO, Simon Storer, could  come on the podcast to contribute to a very interesting debate.

Nigel Banks from Octopus (who wrote this fabric article) was scheduled to appear on the show and will  be coming on for a follow up episode.

Nathan was very grateful Richard Erskine,  who could step in at short notice to be a guest host, who has lots to offer in the debate and wrote the very good "Insulate Britain! Yes, but by how much" essay.

Great episode which will be continued

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Nathan sat down to chat all things heat pumps and training with Clayton Brown from CB Heating.

EDF acquired CB Heating back in 2022 which is one of the largest heat pump installation entities in the UK. 

EDF’s strategic investment and partnership with CB Heating have supported the development of the HPIN Academy. This academy provides free training to upskill engineers at every level in the UK.

The episode also discusses the recent partnership between Ideal Heating, a group Atlantic company, who manufacture and supply heat pumps.

Take a listen 

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Heat pumps move energy from and energy source e.g. air, ground water (hence they are called :air source, ground source) to a sink.

The sink is the emitter system within a home e.g. radiators, underfloor heating (UFH) and fan coils.

Engineers, Installers, designers and the occupants of a home rely on radiators having accurate power output data. Unfortuanlty, it looks like their is a big problem in the radiator industry: the published power outputs are being over stated.

This has huge consequences for heat pump systems which rely on designers designing a heat pump system which can operate at the lowest possible design temperature.

Higher flow temperature to radiators requires the heat pump's compressor to work harder an use more electricity, resulting in more demand on the grid and higher fuel bills for the customer.

Rob Nezard from UK Radiators has spotted a problem across the whole of the radiator supply chain and created a video to prove this. Nathan went to visit Rob (watch on youtube) to discuss the problem 

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In this episode Nathan chats to Paul Eastwood, Head of Energy Systems Planning at OFGEM and the past Senior Climate and Energy Advisor at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.

Also joining the heat pump conversation is engineer Barry Sharpe from Renewable Heat  

The discussion focuses on what an ideal customer journey is. Paul has had a heat pump system after Nathan recommended Barry to him. The episode questions if Paul's experience could have been better with the hope engineers may gain some useful insight. 

Topics covered are:

• Heat loss assessments and independent assessments.
• Securing quotes for heat pump installations
• Install options
• Heat pump controls and operations
• Heat pump servicing
• Why do heat pump installs cost more than boiler installations

This was one of Nathan's favourite recordings and he would like to note that Paul is speaking in a personal capacity and not on behalf of any employer. 

Please enjoy the episode.

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Nathan chats to Barry Sharpe from Renewable Heat, Emma Bohan from IMS Heat Pumps and Steve Webster from EGE Energy about the MCS hybrid consultation, heat pump training as well as glycol and anti-freeze valves.

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Sweden have had a long tradition with heating technologies and have incredible expertise regarding heat pumps. 

Nathan talks to the Swedish company AIRA, the new entrant to the UK's heating and home renewables industry. 

AIRA will be installing heat pump and other technologies across Europe bringing their expertise first to Italy, Germany and the UK.

It's a great episode and Nathan enjoyed his conversation with Daniel Sarefjord, the chief executive of Aira in the UK, immensely. 

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As the title states, you are a very special group of people to me. You listen to me ramble on about heating for a start and I am very grateful for that.. So, thank you. I appreciate that very much.

This is the first episode of 2024 and I wanted to do something a bit special. Something for you.

As you know, this podcast is called BetaTALK... and the talk aspect is very important. In order to help accelerate the mainstream adoption of transitional heating technologies we first need people to start talking about them. We need to get people talking about heating in a positive and fun way. So how do we do that?

This is something I care about and I know this is something you care about too. You care about getting people to talk about heating. But it's challenging.

So, to help you,  Lawrence and I have developed a tool. It's a practical tool and it will  engender conversations around heating.

It's new, it's fun, and it's very quirky.

Take a listen and meet my partner Lawrence... together we have started up Jouln  

As well as home owner listeners if you are associated with Local Authorities, Social Housing Groups, construction companies and even energy suppliers and interested in Digital Twins /artificial intelligence and how  they can help you then please contact us at [email protected]


Once again, thank you for being part of something special.

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