We sat down with our friend Mike McCalley, whose story both challenged and encouraged us. Mike shares how a simple conversation with his son exposed a deeper spiritual and physical drift that had quietly settled into his life. What began as an inability to run a quarter mile became a journey of repentance, renewed stewardship, and ultimately completing the Leadville 100—a grueling 100-mile mountain race.

Along the way, we talk about the connection between physical discipline and spiritual vitality, the dangers of settling for “good enough,” and how God often uses small acts of obedience to awaken us to bigger things. Mike also shares powerful lessons about failure, perseverance, community, marriage, and the importance of telling ourselves the truth without getting trapped in shame.

More than a story about fitness, this is a conversation about stewardship, sanctification, and what it looks like to pursue all that God has for us—one faithful step at a time.

Mentioned Resources

• The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer
• Leadville Trail 100 Run 

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

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If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt  to learn more.

Psalms of Trust

In Psalms of Trust, H. B. Charles walks through ten Psalms, including Psalm 27, Psalm 42, Psalm 73, and Psalm 91, helping readers discover fresh confidence in God's character and care.

You can find it at MoodyPublishers.com  or wherever you get good books.

Authentic Masculinity

If you want clarity around the topic of masculinity, or you want to help the men in your life find it, pick up Authentic Masculinity.

You can find it at MoodyPublishers.com  or wherever you get good books.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we answer listener-submitted parenting questions covering everything from discipline and consequences to neurodivergence, school choices, overprotection, family devotions, and having ongoing conversations with our kids about sex and growing up. The questions are thoughtful, tender, and honest — which honestly reflects how parenting feels most days.

More than anything, we wanted this Q&A to feel freeing. Parenting can carry so much pressure, especially in a culture where everyone seems to be processing childhood wounds and trying not to repeat mistakes. We’ve definitely gotten things wrong, and we’re still parenting in real time with kids who are all wildly different from one another. But over and over again, we’ve found that the kindness of Jesus meets us there.

We talk about learning to love the kid you actually have instead of the one you imagined, how discipline and grace aren’t enemies, why curiosity matters more than control, and how apologizing to our kids has probably preached the gospel louder than any formal family devotional.

Our hope is simple: that this episode would take some pressure off, remind you there are no perfect parents, and encourage you to keep walking closely with Jesus as you parent the children He’s entrusted to you.

In This Episode

[02:00] There Are No Perfect Parents

[05:00] Loving the Kid You Have, Not the One You Want

[08:00] Discipline, Grace & Consequences

[13:00] Public School, Homeschool & Protecting Kids Without Overprotecting Them

[22:00] Parenting Neurodivergence, Anxiety & ADHD

[29:00] Talking to Kids About Sex, Dating & Growing Up

[33:00] Getting to the Heart Instead of Surface Behavior

[38:00] Keeping the Gospel Central in Your Home

[47:00] Family Devotions, Discipleship Rhythms & Letting Go of Guilt

Mentioned Resources

• ID Retreat (The Village Church parenting resource) - email: [email protected]
• Family Discipleship by Matt Chandler & Adam Griffin
• The Explicit Gospel by Matt Chandler
• Heart Engaged EQ Cards

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt to learn more.

Cozy Earth

Let this Mother’s Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too — discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use code BETWEEN for an exclusive 20% off.

Authentic Masculinity

If you want clarity around the topic of masculinity, or you want to help the men in your life find it, pick up Authentic Masculinity.

You can find it at MoodyPublishers.com or wherever you get good books.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this special bonus episode, we share a full chapter from Matt’s upcoming book, Becoming Like Jesus — the chapter readers asked for most: “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.”

In it, Matt talks about what it means to grieve honestly before God in a world that constantly pushes us toward distraction, comfort, and numbness. This chapter explores how mourning shapes us into people who are tender toward both our own sin and the brokenness around us.

We’ll reflect on the old Puritan prayer for “the gift of tears,” the way sin deforms and distorts the human soul, and how easy it is in our internet-saturated age to become overwhelmed, cynical, or emotionally shut down. But Jesus doesn’t call us to harden ourselves. He invites us into deeper communion with Him through repentance, compassion, and presence with hurting people.

More than anything, we hope this episode reminds you that comfort is not found in avoiding sorrow but in meeting Jesus there. His presence, His promises, and His redemption are enough for every kind of mourning.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt to learn more.

Cozy Earth

Let this Mother’s Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too — discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use code BETWEEN for an exclusive 20% off.

Authentic Maculenity

If you want clarity around the topic of masculinity, or you want to help the men in your life find it, pick up Authentic Masculinity.

You can find it at MoodyPublishers.com or wherever you get good books.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we’re diving into Matt’s new book Becoming Like Jesus: The Everyday Journey to Living a Life of Holiness. We talk about what it actually looks like to follow Jesus over the long haul—not the polished, “up and to the right” version, but the real story of highs, lows, doubt, growth, and grace.

We unpack how sanctification isn’t a moment or a light switch—it’s a lifelong process. We share why so many of us get discouraged when suffering or struggle shows up, and how that might actually be part of God’s good work in us. We also talk through the Beatitudes as a framework for understanding what Jesus is forming in us over time.

More than anything, we hope this conversation reminds you that you’re not behind, you’re not disqualified, and you’re not alone. If you don’t quit—if you keep bringing your whole self to Jesus—you’re actually right in the middle of the journey He’s using to make you more like Him.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt to learn more.

Cozy Earth

Let this Mother’s Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too — discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use code BETWEEN for an exclusive 20% off.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we talk about suffering—not just as a hard part of life, but as a real part of life in a fallen world. We share some of our earliest memories of suffering, the seasons that disoriented us, and the ways God has met us in both sudden storms and long stretches of pain. From grief and betrayal to illness, relational heartache, and unanswered prayers, we try to talk honestly about what it looks like to suffer without pretending.

We also spend time in Psalm 107 and the different kinds of suffering it describes—wandering, oppression, folly, and storms—and how those categories help us make sense of our own lives. Along the way, we talk about lament, community, sustaining grace, and the kindness of bringing our real hearts before the Lord instead of a polished version of ourselves.

Our hope is simple: if you’re in a season of suffering right now, you’d feel encouraged to keep crying out to God, keep looping in the saints, and keep trusting that even here, He is at work.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt  to learn more.

Cozy Earth

This Mother's Day, give the gift that shows up every single night. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code BETWEENBOGO for an exclusive Buy One, Give One offer running from April 12th to April 18th on sheet sets and if you get

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we’re talking about what we’re seeing and sensing right now—both in the Church and out in the world. It really does feel like something is happening. From college campuses to local churches, there’s a growing hunger for God that we haven’t seen in a long time.

We’re watching people—especially Gen Z—wake up to the reality that what the world promised isn’t enough. There’s a search for something real, something transcendent. And by God’s grace, many are finding that in Jesus.

At the same time, we’re also seeing the Church reawaken to its need for the power of God. Not just good sermons or great worship, but genuine dependence on the Holy Spirit through prayer, fasting, and repentance. We’ve felt that in our own lives too—this deeper awareness that we can’t manufacture what only God can do.

So this episode is really an invitation: pay attention to where God is moving, draw near to it, and ask Him to do it in you. We don’t want to sit on the sidelines and watch—we want to be part of it.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt to learn more.

Cozy Earth

Let this Mother’s Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too — discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use code BETWEEN for an exclusive 20% off.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we talk honestly about perfectionism—what it looks like when your identity is built on performance, and how exhausting that kind of striving can become. Lauren shares how, from childhood, she felt driven to succeed: getting the best grades, being first chair in band, doing everything “right,” and eventually trying to be the perfect Christian, worship leader, and mom.

But underneath all that achievement was a deeper desire for glory—her own glory. And that pursuit can quietly shape the way we see ourselves, our failures, and even the people around us.

We discuss how God began to expose that in Lauren’s life through music, ministry, and eventually Celebrate Recovery. What looked like success on the outside was actually fueled by fear, shame, and the pressure to prove she was enough. The turning point came through rediscovering the gospel—not just that Jesus died for our sins, but that He also lived the perfect life we couldn’t live and gives us His righteousness.

That realization changes everything. It frees us to admit weakness, ask forgiveness, and stop striving to prove ourselves. We talk about Martin Luther’s idea of the “theology of glory” versus the “theology of the cross,” and how learning to embrace weakness has actually opened the door to deeper joy, healthier relationships, and more freedom in parenting, ministry, and everyday life.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt  to learn more.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we talk about our journey with the Holy Spirit. We both grew up in church contexts where He wasn’t ignored—but He wasn’t really known either. Over time, through Scripture, ministry, and seasons of stretching, we’ve learned that the Spirit isn’t just a doctrine to understand or gifts to experience. He is God with us.

We share what it looks like for us to walk with Him between Sundays—asking Him to illuminate the Word, guide our steps, soften our hearts, and provide power where our strength runs out. More than anything, we’ve learned that the Holy Spirit loves to make much of Jesus, and life with Him is marked not just by power, but by tenderness.

Our hope is simple: that you’d open your Bible, ask the Spirit to speak, and begin growing in friendship with Him.

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt  to learn more.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode, we walk through what it looks like to do a “drain audit.” What drains us emotionally? Physically? Spiritually? Relationally? We talk honestly about how tragedy, busyness, sickness, loud rooms, traffic, and even good ministry can leave us thin.

We also talk about rhythms—daily, weekly, and seasonal—that help us build a replenishment cycle. Not as indulgence. Not as an escape. But as obedience. Because running empty isn’t holy. And exhaustion isn’t a mystery—it’s a pattern.

If you’ve been chasing rest but still feel weary, we hope this conversation encourages you &  helps you build your own rhythms of replenishment.

In This Episode

• [01:00] Lauren’s Ice Cream Jackpot & Cricked Neck
• [04:00] Rest vs. Replenishment – What’s the Difference?
• [06:00] The Drain Audit: What Empties Your Cup?
• [10:00] Emotional Drain: Tragedy, Busyness & Feeling “Thin”
• [16:00] Physical Drain: Sickness, Sleep & Human Limits
• [18:00] Spiritual Drain: When We Can’t Hear the Lord
• [21:30] Longing, Ecclesiastes & Living Life Backwards
• [23:30] Stop Treating Exhaustion Like a Mystery
• [25:00] Check Engine Lights
• [27:00] What Actually Replenishes Us
• [32:00] Building Daily, Weekly & Seasonal Rhythms
• [38:00] Replenishment Is Not Indulgence — It’s Obedience
• [41:00] Seasons Change the Strategy
• [45:00] Doing the Replenishment Audit Together

Resources and Mentions

• Living Life Backwards by David Gibson

ORDER MY LATEST BOOK

Becoming Like Jesus is a book about “progressive sanctification” that takes it beyond church words into the honest conversation so many Christians have navigated. Rooted in the Beatitudes, this book unpacks the lifelong series of highs and lows that the Holy Spirit uses to shape us into a person who looks like Jesus.

If you Pre-Order the book now, you will get access to some bonus content, including access to a 2 hour long conversation we got to have with our friends, Ali Parsons, Philip Anthony Mitchell, Joel Muddamalle, and Jonathan Pokluda. You can Pre-Order here.

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit  https://bit.ly/GCRMatt  to learn more.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]

In this episode of Between Sundays, Lauren and I talk about something that’s foundational to life in Christ but often overlooked: friendship. God made us for connection. You and I were not designed to walk this life alone, and yet so many of us are doing just that. We unpack the epidemic of loneliness, how real transformation happens in community, how to pursue meaningful friendships, and how to discern who is safe to be vulnerable with. It’s not easy. It takes time. It takes risk. But it is also worth it. Our hope is that this conversation gives you vision and practical tools to form the kind of deep, gospel-centered friendships we all need.

In This Episode

• [00:00] Lauren’s Dad Joke
• [02:00] The "At the Table" Series and the Loneliness Epidemic
• [04:49] Transformation Happens in Community
• [06:00] What Real Friendship Looks Like (and Why It’s Hard to Find)
• [09:02] Risk, Vulnerability, and the Role of Wisdom
• [10:00] How to Spot a Fool (and Why You Shouldn’t Be Friends with One)
• [13:10] Wise vs. Simple vs. Foolish: Who Can You Trust?
• [15:00] Belonging Deficits and Misreading Social Cues
• [18:00] Hurt, Healing, and How We Grow in Relationships
• [21:00] You Are Becoming Like Your Closest Friends
• [23:00] Inside Lauren’s Closest Friendships: A 20-Year Story
• [31:00] Evaluating Your Current Friendships
• [34:00] Inviting Friends Into the Journey (Without Breaking Up With Them)

Resources and Mentions

• Proverbs 13:20, Proverbs 22:24–25 – On choosing friends wisely
• U.S. Surgeon General’s 2023 report on loneliness as an epidemic
• The Overcomers: The King's Table episode - On Male Friendships
• Becoming Like Jesus - Matt’s Forthcoming Book

FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE:

Follow Lauren | Follow Matt | Youtube | Website | Newsletter

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, one of the best ways to support the show and make sure others find it, is to subscribe and leave a review. Thank You!

Thank you to our Sponsors

Global Christian Relief

GCR comes alongside persecuted Christians with prayer, Bibles, and real help so the church can endure and shine as a light for the Gospel. Stand with the persecuted Church and be a lifeline of prayer and support. — visit Globalchristianrelief.org to learn more.

–

Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. 

For sponsorship inquiries, email [email protected]