Black Beryl

Today I sit down with Mary Shutan, a spiritual teacher specializing in awakening and shadow work. Our conversation focuses on the weirdness, emotional volatility, darkness, and other challenges that inevitably accompany serious spiritual practice. Along the way, we talk about the diverse range of awakenings, the difficulties of managing kundalini energy, and what to do in the case of a spiritual emergency.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned:

• Lan Li, Body Maps: Improvising Meridians and Nerves in Global Chinese Medicine (2025) 
• Pierce Salguero, A Lamp Unto Yourself (2025).
• Mary Shutan, Shadow Work for the Soul: Seeing Beauty in the Dark (2024).
• Mary Shutan, The Spiritual Awakening Guide (2015).
• Mary Shutan, The Body Deva: Working with the Spiritual Consciousness of the Body (2018).
• Mary Shutan, Working with Kundalini: An Experiential Guide to the Process of Awakening (2019).
• Mary's website: maryshutan.com
• Mary's YouTube channel: @MaryShutan 

Resources provided on blackberyl.substack.com:

• Chapter 23 of Mary's new book ("Engaging the Deep Wild")
• Preface & Chapter 1 of Pierce's new book ("Preparing for the Journey")
• Plus, sign up with a paid subscription before the end of the month to receive a bookmark in the mail from Lan Li!   

Today I sit down with Miguel Farias, an experimental psychologist and researcher of religion, spirituality, and cognition. Together we try to get to the bottom of whether meditation is actually good for you through a comparison of Miguel's research on the adverse effects of meditation with my research on Asian notions of meditation sickness. Along the way, we discuss the limitations of modern Western understandings of consciousness, and explore whether we can develop a more expansive, multifaceted understanding of altered states both pleasant and unpleasant.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned:

• Miguel Farias and Catherine Wikholm, The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You? (2019).
• Miguel Farias, Oxford Handbook of Meditation (2022).
• Miguel Farias et al, “Adverse Events in Meditation Practices and Meditation-based Therapies: A Systematic Review” (2021).
• Pierce Salguero, “‘Meditation Sickness’ in Medieval Chinese Buddhism and the Contemporary West” (2023). 
• Peter Berger, The Homeless Mind (1973).
• Joseph Henrich et al. article on the Müller-Lyer illusion (2010).
• The source for the term “monophasic bias” is apparently Charles Laughlin’s chapter “Transpersonal Anthropology” in Roger Walsh’s book Paths Beyond Ego (1993).
• Pierce Salguero, A Lamp Unto Yourself (2025).

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

Introduction to the Oxford Handbook of Meditation

Today I sit down with David Gordon White, a distinguished indologist and scholar of Tantra. Our conversation focuses on David’s most recent project tracing the transregional histories of spirits, gods, demons, and their associated rituals across Eurasia. Along the way, we dive into an intellectual conversation about dog-headed men, angry goddesses, alchemical mercury, body-snatching yogis, the origins of Dracula, and much, much more. 

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned

• David Gordon White, Daemons are Forever (2021)
• David Gordon White, Myths of the Dog-Man (1991)
• David Gordon White, The Alchemical Body (1997)
• David Gordon White, Kiss of the Yogini (2006)
• David Gordon White, Sinister Yogis (2011)
• Michel Strickmann, Chinese Magical Medicine (2002)
• Michel Strickmann, Mantras et Mandarins (1996)
• David Gordon White, “Three Shades of Tantric Yoga,” in Oxford Handbook of Tantric Studies (2024)
• David Gordon White, "Were-Creatures of the Eurasian Ecumene," Journal Asiatique (2020) 
• David Gordon White, "Dracula’s Family Tree," Gothic Studies (2021)

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

• PDF of David's chapter in Oxford Handbook of Tantric Studies 
• PDF of David's article, "Were-Creatures of the Eurasian Ecumene"
• PDF of David's article, "Dracula’s Family Tree" 

💀💀 Warning: This episode contains potentially disturbing content! 💀💀

Today I sit down with Justin McDaniel, a scholar of Theravada Buddhist literature and art. Together we explore the darker side of Thai Buddhism, including meditation on decomposing bodies, fetus spirits, corpse oil, and the spectrum of white and black magic. We discuss the logics of rituals, their role in Thai communities, and how a misfit Catholic punk from Philly found himself in a rural Thai monastery.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Thai movie Necromancer (2005)
• Justin McDaniel, The Lovelorn Ghost and the Magical Monk: Practicing Buddhism in Modern Thailand (2011)
• Justin McDaniel, Architects of Buddhist Leisure: Socially Disengaged Buddhism in Asia’s Museums, Monuments, and Amusement Parks (2018)
• Justin McDaniel, Wayward Distractions: Ornament, Emotion, Zombies and the Study of Buddhism in Thailand (2021)
• Justin McDaniel, Cosmologies and Biologies: Illuminated Siamese Manuscripts of Death, Time and the Body (2024)
• Press coverage of monasticism course
• Press coverage of existential despair course

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

• PDF with introduction to The Lovelorn Ghost and the Magical Monk

Today I sit down with Jack Schaefer and Josh Paynter, co-abbots of the Parting Clouds Temple, to discuss their practice of Daoist exorcism. We talk about the differences between spirits, ghosts, demons, and other entities; as well as a range of practices including talismans, body replacement, curse breaking, and spiritual battle. Along the way, we make eye contact wth snake and fox spirits, contribute to the elimination of suffering for all beings, and learn why dogs never stick around during an exorcism. 

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about healing, transformation, and alternate realities, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Also look us up by name on Substack.com to check out our members-only benefits. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

• Paynter & Schaefer, Daoist Morning and Evening Altar Recitation (2019)
• Paynter & Schaefer, Daoist Noon Altar Recitations (2020)
• Paynter & Schaefer, The Northern Dipper Scripture (2021)
• Paynter & Schaefer, The Perfected Scripture of the Life Receiving Golden Seals of the Five Dippers as Spoken by Taishang (2024)
• Josh’s lecture for Brown University

Resources provided for members on blackberyl.substack.com:

• PDF of Jack’s article, “Daoist Celestial Medicine: Community, Cultivation, and Compassion” from Journal of Daoist Studies (2024).

You are not mistaken: this is in fact the podcast formerly known as The Blue Beryl. We have changed our name for season 3, as we are embracing the darkness! You'll notice a new logo and a new URL, but if you're a subscriber, there's nothing you need to do. Everything will automatically be updated.

You are not mistaken: this is in fact the podcast formerly known as The Blue Beryl. We have changed our name for season 3, as we are embracing the darkness! You'll notice a new logo and a new URL, but if you're a subscriber, there's nothing you need to do. Everything will automatically be updated.

In today's episode, we are launching the new season with the tables turned. Producer Lan Li takes over the microphone to interview me about spirit healing and related practices. Lan has been trying to ask me these questions for the last two years, but I've continued to put them off. Now it's finally time to put some things on the record and clear the air. So in this episode, we dive right in to questions like do spirits exist? Are mystical experiences real? What are the best talismans for healers? We're also going to talk about different kinds of possession and the benefits of holding more than one ontological perspective at the same time.

I hope you enjoy the conversation, and please subscribe to The Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. We also want to invite everyone to check out blackberyl.substack.com. Our episodes are going to continue to be free as always, but we now have paid subscriptions where we can make exclusive resources available to members for a small fee. Your payments help us with production costs of the pod, so thanks for your support! 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Pierce Salguero, A Lamp Unto Yourself (preorder).

Resources provided for members on blackberyl.substack.com:

• Full manuscript of the short book book Traditional Thai Medicine: Buddhism, Animism, Yoga, Ayurveda (2106), with chapters on spirit healing, talismans, and other topics covered here. 

PLEASE NOTE: Shortly, we will be changing our name to Black Beryl. Your subscription will automatically update and no action is necessary on your part. Thanks for your continued support! 

Today I sit down with Volker Scheid, an interdisciplinary scholar and longtime practitioner of Chinese medicine. Together, we take an intellectual deep dive into his thoughts about the importance of blurring disciplinary boundaries and how “meta-practice” can make sense of the many different kinds of Chinese medicines. Along the way, Volker and I discuss the commensurability of Chinese medicine and biomedicine, the importance of connecting the self with the ten thousand things, and how premodern ideas can be the basis of a new politics for modern times.

If you want to hear more from experts on Buddhism, Asian medicine, and embodied spirituality then subscribe to Blue Beryl and don’t miss an episode! 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Volker’s website 
• Volker Scheid, Chinese Medicine in Contemporary China: Plurality and Synthesis (2002)
• Volker Scheid, Currents of Tradition in Chinese Medicine 1626-2006 (2007)
• Paul Unschuld, Chinese Medicine: A History of Ideas (2010)
• Annemarie Mol, The Body Multiple: Ontology in Medical Practice (2003)
• Pierce Salguero, “A Polyperspectival Asian Medicine Practice” (2020)
• Slavoj Žižek, “From Western Marxism to Western Buddhism” (2001)
• Volker’s blog

In this episode I sit down with Frances Garrett, a scholar of Tibetan culture, history, and language. We talk about Frances’s interests in embodiment and movement, and how her experiences as ballet dancer, surfer, and rock climber connect with her work on religion and healing. Our conversation focuses on her commitment to embodied and trauma-aware pedagogy, and how in the interest of flourishing, she engages the whole person in the learning process. Along the way, we talk about Tibetan bards, sacred mountains, and the importance of long walks. 

Enjoy! And, if you want to hear from more experts on Buddhist medicine and related topics, subscribe to Blue Beryl for monthly episodes here.


Resources 

• Michel Strickmann, Chinese Magical Medicine (2002)
• Frances Garrett, Religion, Medicine and the Human Embryo in Tibet (2008)
• Frances Garrett, Hidden Lands in Himalayan Myth and History (2020)
• Tsering Yangzom Lama, We Measure the Earth with Our Bodies (2022)
• Susan Hrach, Minding Bodies (2021)
• Jesse Stommel's ungrading website: www.jessestommel.com
• Susan D. Bloom, Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and What to Do Instead) (2020)
• Cate J. Denial, “A Pedagogy of Kindness” (2019)
• Frances's website: www.francesgarrett.info
• Windvane Project: www.windvane.life

Today I sit down with Blue Beryl's producer, Lan A. Li, a historian of Chinese science, medicine, and the body. We talk about their life-long practice of qigong, the limits of academic critique, and the integration of divergent epistemologies in studying Chinese anatomy. Along the way, we discuss Lan’s new book, Body Maps: Improvising Meridians and Nerves in Global Chinese Medicine, Lan’s relationship to Islam, and how to cultivate wonder through academic study.

If you want to hear more from experts on Buddhism, Asian medicine, and embodied spirituality then subscribe to Blue Beryl and don’t miss an episode!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Lan’s website
• Lan Li, “The Vital Other: Integrative Medicine and India” (2012)
• Lan Li, “Acupuntura e Moxabustão” (2023)
• Lan Li and Pierce Salguero, Jivaka Project Philadelphia (2015-2020) 
• Pierce’s blogs on Ugly Truths about Grad School, Metamodernism, Metamodern Asian Medicine, and Polyperspectivalism
• Lan Li, Body Maps: Improvising Meridians and Nerves in Global Chinese Medicine (2025) 

In this episode I sit down with Ruth Westoby a scholar, teacher, and practitioner of  yoga. We discuss Ruth’s work on the body in early hatha yoga texts. We talk about the broad diversity of approaches to the material body in these sources, including their ideas about gender, the cultivation of powers, and approaches to liberation. Along the way, we touch on yogic sex, practices to stop menstruating, and the courageous work that modern practitioners have been doing to expose abuse by yoga gurus.

If you want to hear more from experts on Buddhism, Asian medicine, and embodied spirituality then subscribe to Blue Beryl and don’t miss an episode!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Preliminary published results from Ruth’s research
• Mallinson and Szántó, The Amṛtasiddhi and Amṛtasiddhimūla (2021).
• Jason Birch, The Amaraugha and Amaraughaprabodha of Gorakṣanātha (2023).
• Elena Valussi, “The Physiology of Transcendence for Women” (2009)
• BBP episode with Dominic Steavu
• Hatha Yoga Project
• Articles on guru abuse by Pattabhi Jois: Anneke Lucas, Karen Rain, Amanda Lucia
• Inform Project
• Video footage of Ruth doing historical āsanas 
• Ruth’s website and email newsletter, Facebook page, Instagram