December 12, 2022

Black Ops and Secret Wars

1 hour 5 minutes

Espionage is changing, from George Smiley’s binary Cold War world into a more complex landscape. The CIA employs targeted drone killings while Russia and China’s cyber capabilities interfere in elections, media and industry. How did we get here? And what does the new ambiguity in intelligence mean for global stability?

In this edition Arthur Snell talks to veteran intelligence officers to find out how the CIA’s “golden age” of fixing elections and fomenting coups gave way to a post-9/11 world where technology enables new threats – and Putin and the Chinese have the advantage.

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“You can do interesting things with chemicals that you can’t do with a knife or a gun. You can send a very clear message.” – Dan Kaszeta

“How has regime change actually worked out? It hasn’t worked for the USA or the Russians. Are we safer or not?” – Doug London

“People would say, why don’t we just kill the Libyan leader? And the answer was, Because we actually operate within the law. Things were done once that nowadays are not done.” – Lucy Kirk

“The CIA went down a path of covert action and counter-terrorism… And I do believe the Agency lost its way.” – Doug London

Photograph: Getty Images

Written and presented by Arthur Snell. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Assistant producer: Jacob Archbold. Original music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com . Group Editor Andrew Harrison. Doomsday Watch is a Podmasters production.

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